Local News

Bag-tax forum tilts toward doing more

Attendees have concerns on waste, consumption, jobs

Tuesday, October 7 | 11:29 p.m.

MICHAEL ANDERSEN, COLUMBIAN STAFF WRITER

Jerry Powell, editor of Resource Recycling Magazine, moderates a discussion on taxing the use of disposable plastic grocery bags. Seattle has approved a tax and Portland’s new mayor is promoting one. (Zachary Kaufman/The Columbian)

Let the record show: the City of Vancouver is not officially considering requiring grocery shoppers to pay a tax of 20 cents or so on each disposable grocery bag they use.

“We have no proposal,” Public Works Director Brian Carlson volunteered, a broad smile fixed on his face. “We’re not thinking about any proposal.”

“There has been no discussion on the council on the record at all,” City Councilmember Jeanne Stewart added.

Still, the merits of such a tax — or would it be a fee? — were the topic of a two-hour debate among seven out-of-town experts in a well-promoted panel discussion in the city council chambers Tuesday afternoon. The speakers appeared at no cost to the city.

As dozens of citizens and two television cameras filed into the room, city leaders seemed poised for a hurricane.

“No shouting out loud, no laughing,” said Derek Chisholm, chairman of the city planning commission, told the crowd. “You can roll your eyes as much as you want.”

They were in for a surprise. When one speaker asked the people in the room whether they carry reusable bags, almost every hand went up.

Most citizens who spoke Tuesday seemed, if not positive about the idea, worried that it might not do enough to reduce waste.

The facts, as presented by the seven experts, who were split on the idea of a bag tax:

Paper bag manufacturing consumes much more energy than plastic. Look at the price: 3 cents for a plastic bag, 5 to 7 cents for a paper one, said Jan Gee of the Washington Food Industry, an association of independent grocers.

Plastic bags eventually break into tiny particles that pollute the ocean. Nobody’s yet sure how much damage that does, said Nir Barnea, a Seattle-based project manager for NOAA, the federal ocean agency. “If you don’t see it any more, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s gone,” Barnea said. “It just breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces.”

Reusable bags probably save energy over plastic. The research is incomplete, said Lisa Libby, an aide to Portland Mayor-elect Sam Adams, who has touted a fee on plastic bags. “If a reusable bag is made in China out of virgin materials and shipped here, I’m not sure we can say that is such a good idea,” she said. But generally speaking, Libby said, reusing things conserves the planet.

Paper bags are made nearby. Plastic, cloth and other reusable ones aren’t.

That fact was enough for state Sen. Dean Takko, D-Longview, to say he opposes grocery-bag taxes at the city level and has already drafted a bill that would block them.

“We grow trees in this state, and we make paper,” Takko said. “Paper bags are jobs in this state.”

Plastic bags make up less than 1 percent of garbage and recycling, said Patty Moore, the owner of a Sonoma, Calif., recycling business who flew to Vancouver for the event. “What about the wrap that goes around the toilet paper?” Moore said. “What about your newspaper bag? All of that is recyclable. It’s the same type of material.”

Recycling plastic bags doesn’t solve the problem. Most recycled plastic bags become decking and patio furniture, Moore said. But it’s far better to reuse a bag than to manufacture it all over again, the panel agreed. And most plastic bags, she said, are never recycled.
Shoppers aren’t likely to change their habits quickly without a tax. Even at New Seasons, a Portland food market which targets green consumers, only a quarter of shoppers use reusable bags, said Erin Gately of Portland’s Northwest Earth Institute.

“If we thought we could get there through education and outreach alone — absolutely,” said Libby. “But I think the question is, ‘Is this going to be enough?’”

Grocery stores hate the tax idea. But since they have to pay for disposable bags, they’re very much in favor of reusable bags.

“Have we done enough as an industry? Absolutely not,” said Gee, the food industry spokeswoman.

Gee said Seattle grocery stores are launching a campaign to remind users to get their bags out of their car on the way into the store. They’ll be posting reminder signs in parking lots and giving out plastic reminder decals to stick on car windshields, she said.

“Right next to the thing where you get the oil change,” Gee said.

That troubled Den Fusso of Salmon Creek, one of the visitors to Tuesday’s event.

Fusso, who said she sometimes struggles to sleep at night because of the amount of plastic particles now floating in the ocean, rose with a question for Gee.

“Why, again, a plastic decal?” Fusso asked. “Could it not be paper?”

by Howard McNeil : 10/8/08 3:45am - Report Abuse

The real problem with free plastic bags is that worldwide we manufacture between 500 billion to 1 trillion such bags per year and it costs $4000 per ton to recycle them and then you can sell that ton of recycled plastic for $32! That harsh economic fact is why there is no market for recyclers and the free plastic bags end up in landfills and in the oceans and waterways. The solution is to simply outlaw free plastic bags and thus prevent them from being manufactured in the first place. Reusable cloth bags are fine and should be encouraged but to my mind paper bags should be the only legal free bags because they are biodegradeable and recyclable can even be used as a fuel to reclaim their energy in the production of new energy. Taxing free plastic bags won't solve the problem because it does not stop their manufacture. Taxing paper bags will be punitive, counterproductive, and it simply won't work. In response to the question "paper or plastic?" I can just hear the elderly woman saying to the clerk or boxboy "Oh, no bags for me, thank you. Please just put everything back in the shopping cart. And can you please help me take these items out to my car? I'll just load everything into the back seat."

by Amy Foster : 10/8/08 7:22am - Report Abuse

Great point. I have no problem paying the store for the bags (like at Ikea), but I have a huge issue paying the government for them. I already pay enough in taxes. They don't need any more of my money.

by Steve Avery : 10/8/08 9:38am - Report Abuse

My mother-in-law saw this coming a long time ago, that's why she makes oil-cloth bags for her and the rest of the family. Every time we shop we receive discounts at places like Safeway (3 cents per bag), Target (5 cents per bag), and Winco (6 cents per bag). Right now stores are giving discounts, but eventually they will start charging for them. I don't think there should be a tax on bags, but I think stores should charge people for using plastic bags. It will help people find other alternatives to plastic, such as paper or cloth and will help lower the level of pollution that plastics create in our environment.

by eva hoffman : 10/8/08 1:54pm - Report Abuse

We used 48 billion barrels of oil last year making plastic grocery bags, only 2% was recycled. Using paper supports the timber industry, paper can be reused, recycled & composted. Don't offer plastic bags, period! I use reuseable cloth bags everywhere I go, any store I shop at. Some stores give you back up to 22 cents to use your own bag. Only about 2% of these bags are recycled. Most have a short lifetime with a consumer -- they are used for the few minutes it takes to get from the store to home and then they're thrown away. Plastic shopping bags can last up to a thousand years in a landfill. In the environment, they break down into tiny, toxic particles that become part of the soil and water. They contribute to the plastic debris in the ocean, which kills an estimated 1 million sea creatures each year.

by Baba Booey : 10/8/08 2:09pm - Report Abuse

For those who work in stores, nothing is more annoying that when a customer brings in their own bags. Dirty, stinky, nasty, soiled old bags from customer after customer? Nightmare. Absolute nightmare.

Another far-left fantasy, far removed from reality. Time to snap out of it and get practical. Send this idea back to Portland, where it belongs (and where they like to keep it weird).

by Sir Thomas Train : 10/8/08 2:44pm - Report Abuse

LETS GO BACK TO PAPER BAGS THEN YOU IDIOTS. YOU ENVIORNMENTAL FREAKS SWITCHED US FROM PAPER TO PLASTIC. YOU ENVIORNEMENTAL FREAKS STARTED THIS WHOLE PLASTIC WATER BOTTLE THING TO.

I could careless about the landfills. I love putting more & more trash into them. Matter of fact, I'll ask Walmart for extra plastic bags each time I shop to put them in the trash can.

Our society has bigger problems than a plasic bag.

by Johnny Utah : 10/8/08 3:09pm - Report Abuse

Stop the Tax, and let the private industry make up there own agenda. Let's get to the real issues with the blow money on anything the City Of Vancouver thinks about, like that Casino up North, and the Bus Lane on HWY 99. Hey Mayor Pollard how much tax payers money have you ****** on meetings and bogus lawsuits?

by Baba Booey : 10/8/08 3:41pm - Report Abuse

Bus lane on 99? Don't tell me there's another ridiculous plan in the works that I've missed...what's that all about?

by Always Right : 10/8/08 4:35pm - Report Abuse

I'm in agreement with Howard on this issue!! corporate america shoved "plasic bags" down our throats and into our nations landfills and oceans. Get rid of plastic bags (except for produce). I wonder what type of beauracracy would a "bag tax" collect?

by Jan Gee : 10/8/08 4:58pm - Report Abuse

Correction to the reporting: Jan Gee did not make the statement that paper bags consume more energy than plastic. This statement should be credited to Patty Moore who represented the plastics industry.

by Clifton Beagle : 10/9/08 1:59pm - Report Abuse

Hello! This is a tax on food. A regressive tax on the most basic need in life. This will hurt the pocketbook of those that can least afford it. A cart full of groceries requires 10 to 15 bags or $2.00 to $3.00 in tax, times several carts a month for a family, times twelve equals a lot of money to eat at home. The economy is in recession, people are losing their jobs and now our local government wants to tax food or require us to buy reusable bags. Bags that should be washed or cleaned after use to avoid cross contamination from any spillage of meat juices or other forms of contamination that reuse will bring. Also the stores will pass on the administrative cost of collecting this tax to the consumer. I'm afraid our local government has a bad case of "monkey see, monkey do." Seattle did it, Portland may do it, so we'd best do it too. No choice for the consumer, after all we all need to be looked after by our government since they know best. Give me a break!

The debate

Should governments put a tax on disposable grocery bags?

On one side:

Yes. They consume energy, they pollute oceans and they’re easily replaced by reusable bags. Most shoppers won’t voluntarily change their habits unless they get a financial push.

On another side:

No. They’re not a major part of the waste stream, they’re no different from many disposable products and — if they’re paper — they’re manufactured locally.