by Helena Handbasket : 5/21/09 3:28pm - Report Abuse

Seattle-based
__________________
So, an enviromental-nazi group doesn't want US to develop OUR area!! Doesn't Seattle Liberal Democrat tell us what we can do enough? Vote out Liberals.

by K Gero : 5/21/09 3:47pm - Report Abuse

"Seattle-Based slow-growth environmental group Futurewise" is referring to their headquarters. There could be members living in our area too!

It is a sad day in Clark County now that the courts have ruled it is okay to destroy what is left of our valuable farmland. Some of us see the value of wide expanses of land, others don't. I just happen to be one of those who prefer to see 100 or more acres of prime farm land producing for the locals rather than 100 or more acres of conglomerated matchboxes in substandard lots to instigate a population explosion only to fulfill someone's hairbrained idea of progress within their own pocketbooks. Is this liberal? I think not. Is this an environmental-nazi group? No. Are they people who care about our state? Yes. They are Washingtonians, not outsiders. Our state is called the Evergreen State for a reason. Some people think it means forever-greenbacks instead of the State that stays forever "Green."

by Stinger : 5/21/09 4:21pm - Report Abuse

Nothing like our home values taking another hit too. If they would stop developing all this farmland, then maybe there will be more demand for the houses that are already built and we can also keep the beautiful areas of our County that way. Nothing like our elected officials being a bunch of sellouts too. Not too much longer until we are no different than Portland or even California!

by Craig Sayre : 5/21/09 4:38pm - Report Abuse

Just when you expect a judge to make a good decision, this happens. What in the world is wrong with preserving a little bit of farmland in this county? I am all for ownership rights, but we have to use common sense too. Let us keep Washington green.

I saw a show on PBS last night about growth and freeways. As much as I get irritated with Oregon sometimes, they've done a lot of things right. They've got some good land use laws in effect. We should do the same. We probably should never have built I-205 and the Glenn Jackson bridge. I bet we'd have preserved a lot more farmland than we have now.

by Craig Sayre : 5/21/09 4:42pm - Report Abuse

Hopefully this will be reversed on appeal. I think I'll send a few bucks to http://www.futurewise.org to help with litigation expenses.

by Craig Sayre : 5/21/09 4:55pm - Report Abuse

The Columbian's link didn't work.

Here's one that does: http://www.co.clark.wa.us/longrangeplan/review/

by K Gero : 5/21/09 5:41pm - Report Abuse

Craig S: Do you think it has anything to do with the impact fees? The more the merrier for the county pocketbook.

by Denise White : 5/21/09 9:41pm - Report Abuse

Too bad Judge Harris didn't retire last year.

by Jon Alldritt : 5/21/09 9:46pm - Report Abuse

La Center has growen a lot in the last 20 years mostly in a controled and close in way. On the other side it has no real base for local jobs and this would let them develope a industrial area. Would the same people complain if it where green jobs. One thing I like about the Earth Conservancy is they buy the land to conserve it rather then tell the people that owen it what they can do with it. If the owners want to farm then farm there pach. If the next farm wants to let it be developed then develop it. The reality is a lot of the land being diputed is not farm or agricultural even if zoned as such. A smart farmer would let it be rezoned sell it for more and go buy a larger plot to realy farm.

by B. Anker : 5/21/09 10:21pm - Report Abuse

This ruling is based on old data and should be appealed. Heh, next time I see Judge Harris at the food co-op or the farmer's market, I'll be sure to tell him.

by Jim DeFord : 5/22/09 12:14am - Report Abuse

This has been the Vancouver City Council's mandate for many years. Vancouver used to be swathed wide with many natural trees and vegetation. Your City Council has worked very hard to swipe it all away. They have pretty darn successful! Congrats for turning our tree-laden city into a barren, boring scape of nearly nothing.

Vancouver is getting ready to push Joe's Farms out of town. Kunze is next. And this is all hidden under the wraps and only comes to the public after it's all said and done.

Time, after time, after time, after time, and time again the government within the city of Vancouver and the county of Clark, keeps taking everying away, bit by bit by bit.

And we all sit here and watch.

Time to revolt folks!

by Ham Chuck : 5/22/09 12:49am - Report Abuse

Heh heh... Helena. When you capped the "US" I read it as abbreviated form of United States. For a grammar nazi I thought you could have trolled better.

It's too bad we're seeing farmland razed for row homes. On the other hand I'm struggling with the rights of developers and land owners responding to market forces. If more of us supported local farmers, i.e. go buy stuff at our farmers markets, maybe Judge Harris will change his mind?

by K Gero : 5/22/09 5:45am - Report Abuse

Craig S: Thanks for providing the link to Futurewise - looks like a good organization to donate towards!

by Craig Sayre : 5/22/09 6:41am - Report Abuse

by K Gero : 5/21/09 5:41pm - Report Abuse

"Craig S: Do you think it has anything to do with the impact fees? The more the merrier for the county pocketbook."

One can only hope not. I've gone through the document a little. I guess some of the land their talking about isn't much good for farming (15% slope etc.). At least Judge Harris perserved a few acres.

There is a conflict between rights of private ownership and the public good. In the past I've always leaned toward private ownership, but if land keeps getting gobbled up for housing developments, we'll soon look like LA or something. There's got to be a balance. I don't think Judge Harris found it.

by K Gero : 5/22/09 6:53am - Report Abuse

Craig S: Yeah, the developers will overcome the farmers and force the change for the worse. It is happening right now to Joes Place; next it will be the local dairy farms which utiize sloped land. There does need to be a balance, but the only balance the county seems to recognize is the one in their checkbook! My husband was doing some work in Northwoods on the North End of Swift Creek Reservoir. He said houses are popping up everywhere on all the ridges from Chelatchie Prairie to Northwoods. It will just be a matter of time and that area in the other counties will be totally ruined by developers, too. Money talks way louder than the opinions of the masses.

by K Gero : 5/22/09 6:56am - Report Abuse

In planning the county, it has been overlooked that if you encourage mass development to bring new people to the county, local agencies need to grow with it. This isn't happening. The balance is not there. Community needs are not being met. City and county services are being chopped, community policing is inferior in relation to the population. Stablize the uncontrolled growth, stablize the economical impact on the cities and county.

by Craig Sayre : 5/22/09 8:05am - Report Abuse

That's really unfortunate about the development up around Chelatchie Prairie. I was up that way a few weeks ago myself and noticed a lot of changes. You know, social engineering rubs me the wrong way, but maybe there is some value in what Oregon has done to restrict traffic on I-5. They've deliberately caused congestion through the Delta Park area so they can control growth in Clark County. I don't think it has worked as well as they hoped for, but what would our county look like if there were three lanes through the entire course wide open? Is this another reason to oppose the new bridge?

by K Gero : 5/22/09 9:16am - Report Abuse

Craig S: When the Delta Park Project is completed, we will get a better look at the aspect of 3 through lanes, although Rose Garden area of I-5 will still be narrowed to 2 lanes. I would think the 12-lane bridge would adversely impact the folks along I-5 with new arterials constructed to bring even more traffic to the already overpopulated Clark County, then the planners could win their argument of the necessity of more construction. Soon, Vancouver will look like the core area of San Francisco with little vegetation, no yards for homes and higher concentrations of population to the outer boundaries of our county.

To those who love San Francisco, don't get me wrong. San Francisco is a beautiful city. Washingtonians cheer about being an Evergreen State. We like to keep Washington Green with expanses of free-flowing land, trees and clean water. We have too much rainy weather which can turn against heavily populated areas in the way of annual floods, mudslides and other natural devastation. Houses are being built in 100-year flood plains of which have been proven to be destroyed a lot sooner than expected. We need to continue to preserve our greenspaces in order for Nature to take care of itself. If we continue to build in every open nook and cranny, much more will happen with families displaced by human-related forest and range fires such as in southern California, entire communities wiped out by floods, controlled logging zones eliminated, environmental changes that would be detrimental to every living creature including humans, cost effectiveness of local governing bodies including police, fire and ambulance, and the lack of jobs due to ratios of population versus job availability. I am not against progress. I am against mismanaging of progress. This decision is a strike against our environment. The land designated in the 2007 decision should be left alone.

by Truth B Told : 5/22/09 10:40am - Report Abuse

FACT: Any impact fees collected from new development are legally restricted and dedicated to improvements to arterial streets, parks, and schools (by district and neighborhoood). Impact fees do not go to the genral fund. If not spent within 6-years on approved projects within the same district/neighborhood as the development it actually has to be given back.

FACT: The City of Vancouver objected to the County's large expansion of the urban growth area and, though not an appellant, supported the appeal.

MY OPINION: The history of Judge Haaris' land use decisions suggests that he is very pro-development - as long as it's not anywhere near where he lives.

by Craig Sayre : 5/22/09 10:52am - Report Abuse

TBT: I wasn't aware of the 'give back' policy. Do you know who gets the money back (developer or homeowner)? If it goes back to the developer, I guess they would be anxious to defeat any proposal that could spend those fees then. The next time a proposal is up for vote I'll look very carefully at who is for and who is against.

by Michael Andersen : 5/22/09 11:29am - Report Abuse

To answer your question, Craig, I believe expired fees are refunded to the person who paid directly for them, which is typically the developer.

Refunds don't happen often, of course.

Also, sorry if we had a bad link yesterday. I'm not sure what was wrong. Thanks for posting a better one.

by anon anon : 5/22/09 11:33am - Report Abuse

I'm curious. Is Judge Harris a city dweller or is he lucky enough to enjoy the rural experience? I'm VERY curious as to his the conditions of his living environment.

Does he have friends who live an agricultural life? Has he enjoyed dinner with fresh, local produce in a peaceful, rural setting? I bet he has, and probably enjoyed it immensely.

But those experiences are only for the elite, he must think. The rest of us must be shoved into cookie cutter housing "projects" that have absolutely no "sense of place". We must dull our senses, keep the kids sedated indoors, plugged into mind numbing electronics. Forget about fresh air, a connection to the land, children finding fascination in the lifecycle of plants and livestock. That IS NOT profitable!!

Does he care about good stewardship of the land? Does he care that some people actually enjoy being able to nourish the community from food grown on our own property?

Harris is an idiot. To disparage even small farmers in this region shows what an elitist jerk he is. As property owners in north Clark County, we produce food for our local community and practice good stewardship at the same time. We are careful with our impact on the land and yet get volumes of quality produce off of our acreage. The produces helps pay for the property taxes which are already sky high. With a decision like this, tax rates are sure to increase and put further strain on our ability to provide healthful food for our customers.

I have a feeling Harris, Mielke and some desperate developers are having backroom meetings to prepare for the next big building boom. How can you not think these politicians and decision makers are not getting their pockets lined by the stakeholders?

We support Futurewise and are active participants in the local rural lands preservation movement. Looks like our work just became that much more critical if there is to be any rural quality of life left in this region.

by Craig Sayre : 5/22/09 12:03pm - Report Abuse

Thanks for the info Michael - I suspect that you're correct (on both counts).

anon anon: you make a good point that I hadn't thought of in that small farmers can subsidize their property taxes by growing and selling farm products. I guess Judge Harris didn't consider that!

I remember many years ago when I was a young boy, riding in my Grandfather's old car driving down gravel roads in Clark County to purchase milk from a dairy farm. I think (but can't say for certain) that it may have been the dairy farm that's still on NE 162nd Ave. I guess you can still do that somewhere...for awhile anyway.

by Ivegot Mine : 5/22/09 1:56pm - Report Abuse

How out of step can this judge be? Letting people do what they would like to do with their own property??? Where does he think he is, America?

by K Gero : 5/22/09 2:34pm - Report Abuse

Ivegot: When a cold-blooded killer murders someone because they were allowed to do what they do, is that the America the Free you talk of? If an obviously impaired driver kills a young child because they were allowed to do what they do, is that the America the Free you talk of? There are rules to catch those who abuse and destroy. If developers continue to overtake and abuse valuable land and destroy the environment in order to place these mega-monoliths in postage-stamp lot communities without control, then they are just as guilty of a crime as the murderer and the deewee! The judge was NOT thinking for the good of our county's environmental health only the good of a few pocketbooks.

by Ivegot Mine : 5/22/09 5:53pm - Report Abuse

Well, Gero, the fact that you are even tangentially equating a judge allowing a property owner to develop his own land with cold-blooded murderers pretty much says it all.

by Craig Sayre : 5/22/09 6:28pm - Report Abuse

Ivegot: I know where you're coming from and believe me I feel very conflicted about this issue. I also have a real problem with the government telling people what they can/can't do with their own land.

The problem is, if landowners won't work in a cooperative manner with the rest of us who live in the same neighborhood, what do we do? If we had plenty of open farmland (like 30 years ago), I'd be right there with you. The reality is, our open spaces are shrinking rapidly. What would you propose?

by anon anon : 5/22/09 6:56pm - Report Abuse

Hey Ivegot Mine, here's your little "American" dream, pal.

I don't think the good judge or his developer friends give a rat's puttoody about YOU and your American dream. WE'LL be thinking of you though, when you're suffering from food poisoning because the only produce available to you was imported produce from places like Mexico and China. You'll be cursing that Judge when your torso is leaning over the toilet rim, heaving with toxic expulsion beyond belief. You can thank the Good Judge for your every heave.

Just remember, the small, local farmer producing CLEAN food in his rich, Clark County soil were just too low in economic value to feed your fat cat property rights friends bank accounts.

Can't wait to see how sarcastic the delivery of your "property rights" mantra will be then.

by K Gero : 5/22/09 9:00pm - Report Abuse

Ivegot: Although you have already set in your mind your thoughts on the matter which is fine by me, I will explain why I stated such a drastic comparison. A premeditated murderer does not care about their neighbors and will continue on the road to destruction, much like careless developers and planners. A deewee driver is performing a premeditated act by getting drunk or high before getting behind the wheel and does not care about the people they hit. The murderer and the deewee driver who hits and kills someone are both uncaring individuals and only care about themselves, just like developers and planners who don't give a rats a** about anybody or anything other than the profits generated by their projects.

Anon: I personally boycotted fresh fruit and vegetables from outside our country a long time ago. In the summer, I grow my own and freeze or preserve them or I only shop at the local farms. Granted, sometimes they are just a tad bit more in price than the big grocery chains, but they always taste better! Your expletives are, should I say, interesting.

I can understand why farmers sometimes need to divide a portion of their property in order to stay out of the red by selling their lots, but developers do not need to destroy natural wetlands by filling them in and placing these compact storm drainage plots so they get more houses for the bucks. There are too many mini-malls popping up everywhere which still remain almost empty. This overdevelopment is far exceeding the population that can even remotely afford 1/2 the costs of the mortgages or the leases.

by delbert greening : 5/23/09 7:49am - Report Abuse

so the judge says it is not normally feasable to support a family on 25,000 a year. i do believe, there a lot of people who have to attemp to do it anyway. not everyopne is blessed with a70-100,000 a year income.