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Our readers' Views June 8

Monday, June 8 | 1:00 a.m.

Construct a bridge of notable design

In addressing the pros and cons about a replacement bridge, I remember that many years ago a new bridge was constructed to give us the present configuration of the Interstate 5 Bridge. It was made a toll bridge for a number of years. Voila! The bridge was paid for and then no more tolls. Lesson learned is that tourists and commercial vehicles from around the USA and yes, locally, paid a tremendous share of the cost.

In my travels, I crossed a new bridge over the San Francisco bay at Martinez, Calif. It cost $8 because of the length of our motor home with a tow car. That's money toward the payment of construction by just one visitor. So having toll fees to help pay for the I-5 bridge is not unrealistic. My aunt, who lived in Vancouver, owned a business in the Hollywood district in Portland and crossed the Interstate 5 Bridge twice daily on her commute for years. She paid the toll and wasn't financially overwhelmed.

Also, what's wrong with designing an aesthetically beautiful and functional span? We saw some pretty impressive bridges in China and Japan and I understand that France has a new bridge of note that draws travelers to visit.

Betty Carson

Vancouver

Millions are bothering to listen

This is in response to Martha Lane's rant in a May 30 letter, "Stop listening to party's blowhards," about Rush Limbaugh, and to anyone else feeling the same. As Limbaugh will remind you, listen to his program for two weeks, and you will add to the more than 20 million who listen daily.

Art Roggenkamp

Camas

Negativity endures for years

In a June 3 letter, "Negative talk is destructive," Kate Coen complains about Rush Limbaugh's negativity and vitriol and asks if the man ever has "anything constructive or positive to say." One can only wonder how constructive or positive Coen was when commenting to friends and associates on the eight years of the Bush administration. I'm sure she was positively effusive in her praises.

Mitch Moffett

Camas

Expense worth developing technology

In regards to Don Brunell's June 2 column, "Washingtonians send mixed signals on clean energy," it's ironic that this talking head would make his Wizard of Oz analogy when he so obviously has a man hiding behind his curtain. The one point I will agree with in his piece is that we do have some tough decisions to make. Unfortunately this representative of the Washington business community would have us believe that theses decisions are as cut and dry as "coal or death." This simply is not so.

For instance, a dialysis machine could be powered with an installation of aeroturbines, which are specifically designed to operate in urban surroundings and can be retrofitted to pre-existing structures. Emergency responders could get their diesel fuel from an algae farm. These farms have the ability to grow specific algae to accommodate a range of fuel types and just happen to have the beneficial aspect of recycling our air.

As for the "projections" of our future coal consumption, this sound likes the future of someone who has already made up their mind. It's true that some of these technologies may be expensive, but what is the cost of doing nothing?

Logan Cotey

Vancouver

Safety-conscious drivers obey posting

Judy Dahlen's June 3 letter concerning, "Slow drivers clog passing lane," on I-5 during her commute to Kalama has to be corrected. First, the posted speed limit on any interstate or any other road for that matter is the maximum speed, even for the people who "stay in the passing lane going 70 mph." Drivers who are safety conscious drive according to weather, road conditions and other traffic.

I suggest Dahlen start a little earlier for her commute so she does not have to expect other safe drivers to get out of her way to accommodate her self-serving driving habits.

Robert Kerr

Vancouver

Preach and practice conservatism

No doubt, I sound like a squawking Republican, but I do preach "conservative" in my household.

If I were president, I guarantee you that I wouldn't be sleeping too good at night with this war going on. Sure, it's nice to jet set out on date night with my honey on a private plane on the taxpayers' dime, but I have problems with that.

Yes, the Obamas impress the media as a hip, slick and cool family, but that is so shallow considering the needs of all of us. Yes, the president could sell ice to an Eskimo, but we're in trouble here and let's not forget it.

Glenn Alan Pierce

Battle Ground

Put single-payer back on the table

Where is our representation in Congress? We voted for change and most Americans want single-payer health care based on Medicare — yet it's "not on the table."

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., caved in to health care insurance and pharmaceutical companies, expelling single-payer advocates from participation in hearings. The "public option" being discussed will be structured to cost more. Private health insurance companies are afraid they can't compete. Our representatives, Sens. Maria Cantwell, Patty Murray and Rep. Brian Baird, are nowhere to be heard.

How much greed, profiteering and corruption must we endure? How many people must be denied coverage, go bankrupt and/or die before we get meaningful change?

The public single-payer option could be optional, with increased Medicare taxes. Those who don't want it could pay for private for-profit insurance.

Health care professionals do deserve to be well paid. Reducing for-profit private health insurance, eliminating million- or billion-dollar administrative compensation, and forcing corporations and the wealthy to pay their fair share by closing tax loopholes can provide substantial funding and save 30 percent or more of health care costs with far better care for everyone.

We need to start voting for people who will represent us in this matter.

Bob Donohoe

Vancouver

Future brighter with skilled workers

Accolades to eighth-grader Adam Kinkley for his May 30 letter, "Classrooms have too many students." However, he omitted one reason that all readers should remember. Not only will the current crops of students be caretakers, they will also be the ones whose incomes will be underwriting Social Security, et al, for senior citizens.

Oversimplified, the question becomes do you want your retirement financed by minimum wage earners, or a skilled work force?

George Young

Vancouver

by Ace High : 6/8/09 8:05am - Report Abuse

Glenn Alan Pierce,

>>>> Sure, it's nice to jet set out on date night with my honey on a private plane on the taxpayers' dime, but I have problems with that.

He is the President of the United States. Where does it say that he shouldn't have time off?

I wouldn't be so quick to complain about our current Presidents expenditures accessed to pleasure trips. I wonder how much it costs tax payers for the presidential entourage to take a trip to .... say..... Crawford Texas?

by The Black Hand : 6/8/09 9:20am - Report Abuse

Gee, Betty... so much ignorance in a single letter.

NO bridge should be built to replace the perfectly safe and functional I-5 bridge without our permission. You can bet "your Aunt" wasn't popped $1300 or more dollars per year for the privilege when, as I recall, the toll was 35 cents.

Unless we approve it at the polls, it really doesn't matter what the design is. This theft at the hands of the ego-maniacs ramming this thing down our throats will be a stain on democracy generally, and in our community particularly.

Aesthetics don't play any role when applying lipstick to this pig. And this ain't the "good old days," and once applied, the toll will sky-rocket (See "Tacoma Narrows Bridge" for an example) and we would be better off if LTE types would take the time to inform themselves before they confirm their ignorance... in writing.

by Patrick S : 6/8/09 10:27am - Report Abuse

Hey Black Hand:

Why don't you STFU and stop being such an *******. We are all tired of your complaining. You are one of those people who do nothing and complain. People like you never get involved other than complain when you elected official does not do you bidding.

If you had any nuts at all, you would run for office and make a change instead of sitting here and BlTCHING all the time.

by dee little : 6/8/09 10:50am - Report Abuse

"We are all tired...."

PS

you don't speak for me. BH has a right to his opinion, and to state it openly, just like you did. or are you a fan of the 1st amendment in the same way as our current congress?

by The Black Hand : 6/8/09 11:03am - Report Abuse

U know what, PS? I spent years in uniform, not only so blithering idiotic morons like you could post here with your worthless drivel, but so everyone else posting here, even those I disagree with, could do the same.

Since you're a fringe leftist, I get that you would silence those wise enough to ignore your positions. But the First Amendment isn't the First Suggestion, so what say you FOAD?

Meanwhile, I'll post away, and you may feel free to ignore my efforts all you like.

Idiot.

by Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi : 6/8/09 11:50am - Report Abuse

I get really tired of hearing veterans talk about how they spent time in uniform to protect the rights of others. I did three years in the U.S. Army and I was responsible for undermining not protecting any human rights. The vast majority I served with, myself included, had no concept of "patriotism" when we went in nor could we spell or located on a map the places they sent us--that was the crap they feed us to help us justify the real reasons we went in: a) travel; b) training; c) finance education; d) security, 3 hots and a cot like being on welfare, no pressures with job searches in the real world; e) adventure; f) little man or short man complex--macho overcompensation; g) wonderful place for a psychopath, you actually get medals and paid for what psychopaths dream of doing; h) getting out of some podunk town and not winding up like your daddy working 30 years at the mill or in the mine and coughing your lungs out; i) nothing like a good war to turn a nobody into a somebody; j) come back to your town with a chest full of medals to show that little b*** Barbie who dumped you for Joe the quarterback in high school that you did turn out to be a hero; k) family business--Dad and uncles were in, now you must go; l) judge says the joint or the military for some transgression; m) it is a job and job security unlike what awaits you on the outside; n) someting comfortable about being told what to do and where and when to do it as it reduces the risks and uncertainties of life.

All you have to do is look at the recruiting posters and talk with recruiters to see the real reasons people enlist and why the kids of the rich do not. One of the reasons for veteran's organizations isa place where todays forgotten "nobodies" can flash back--in a drunken stupor--to when they were a "somebody".

by Ace High : 6/8/09 12:03pm - Report Abuse

The Black Hand aka No I-5 Bridge aka John Edwards,

It is a discrace that you call yourself a veteran. YOU ARE A COWARD!!!!

by OCCNC : 6/8/09 12:33pm - Report Abuse

Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi : 6/8/09 11:50am

So which one of those reasons was yours?

I volunteered for the draft when I found out I couldn't get a job being fully eligible for the draft and not in school. I considered a military career but didn't want to go to Viet Nam as an army corpsman. I spent 2 great years in Europe. And yes, I consider my service as part of the effort to let jerks spout off on public forums. It was a service to the country and the reason doesn't really matter.

by Ace High : 6/8/09 12:38pm - Report Abuse

Art Roggenkamp,

Is that what Rush Limbaugh is telling his listeners?

I found a number of sources that say 14 million a week. Hmmm, just goes to show you, you can't believe anything Rush says.

by Corn Tooth : 6/8/09 12:44pm - Report Abuse

When's lunch?

by billy o : 6/8/09 12:49pm - Report Abuse

Roggencamp,

I forced myself to listen to Limbaugh for a week and it nearly sent me to the funny farm. After it was over, I swore that never again would I patronize him or his advertisers.

Yes, I can see how an ignorant, bigoted, selfish, narrow minded moron could become one of his followers. The guy spews hate, divisiveness, and love for corporations, not people. It appears that based on the letters written today and recently, that Camas is the bastion of right-wing negativity.

These people, like Black Hand wear their faux patriotism on their chest like a medal. Militarism, anger, hatred and disdain for brown people is not Patriotism, it is ignorance. I spent 'years' in uniform too, BH, but I don't think the best way to deal with a rogue nation is to invade. If you ask anyone that has actually been in battle, they will say that war is a last resort and should be avoided at all cost--not the first option.

by Dan dav : 6/8/09 1:53pm - Report Abuse

"wonderful place for a psychopath, you actually get medals and paid for what psychopaths dream of doing."

Mr. Craven I would bet that you would like that one back. Do you really mean that? You can not be serious?

by Ernest Tru : 6/8/09 2:02pm - Report Abuse

Just ask these guys if he's serious:http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/sadism-of-israeli-occupation.html

These kinds of psychopaths are encouraged in boot camps all over the world.

by Craig Sayre : 6/8/09 2:34pm - Report Abuse

Free Laura Ling and Euna Lee! North Korea is threatening to kill them. Write to your representatives in Congress to put the full weight of US diplomatic efforts in freeing these two journalists.

by The Black Hand : 6/8/09 2:35pm - Report Abuse

"and it nearly sent me to the funny farm."

Don't use that for an excuse, b.o... obviously, an extended stay would have done you some good. Pity that you managed to escape.

It's amazing how fringe whack jobs put words in the mouths of others... when, of course, they're not trying to silence them altogether.

It's almost pathological how you two, kinda the page Bobbsey twins, almost always engage in personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issues. Perhaps that's because you both know so little about them.

I, on the other hand DID serve to protect YOUR freedoms, even your freedom to sound like an idiot as often as you do.

I don't come here and tell others to shut up. When idiots such as yourself post, it does more to strengthen my position on the issues than anything *I* could write... so, while your fellow whack jobs demand silence or adherence to their ideals as condition to post here, I invite ALL perspectives... even those typically simplistic, wrong, bigoted, divisive and moronic... kinda like yours and your boy friend's.

I appreciate that the Professor served so he could "undermine human rights." That he chose to serve and engage in that kind of activity was certainly his privilege.

As I stated, I believe I had a somewhat nobler goal. And that was to do my part so the blitheringly stupid among us, such as yourself, could continue to confirm their ignorance and stupidity without fear of government intervention.

That, of course, had nothing to do with moronic observations concerning "war as a last resort" or any of that other moveon.org garbage you spew. That had to do with serving this country... and keeping the dull normals such as yourself from attempting to deflect from the issue at hand.

No, no one here has addressed the letter in question; the costs, the lack of a vote, the waste of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Instead, your pathetic efforts have all been about me.

Tsk, tsk.

by Craig Sayre : 6/8/09 2:43pm - Report Abuse

Better yet, call them.

Senator Cantwell (202)224-3441
Senator Murray (202)224-2621
Congressman Baird (202)225-3536

by billy o : 6/8/09 3:16pm - Report Abuse

BH,

Calling your drooling hate speech "noble" is a real laugh fest. So let me turn it around on you. I served this country to save your freedom to be a bigot AND marry your boy friend. I also helped preserve your right to be a hypocrite, at which you excel.

Sorry, I wasn't making the gay reference in a derrogatory fashion. I was sincere. YOUR reference, however, WAS like shining a light on your homophobia and your ignorance.

The reference to 'war as a last resort' was an idea taken from an EISENHOWER speech, you idiot. Find something written or spoken by him in reference to war, and you will find a man tortured by sending anyone to die for any cause, and who preached diplomacy first every time. Call him a moron, you flat skulled neanderthal.

Finally, as usual, you took one of my better based points about YOUR posting record. YOU are the one that lies in the grass, and attacks peoples opinions, while never addressing the issue.

Typical neo-con Karl Rove tactic. Use well founded accusations pointed at you and turn them around on your opponent, it diffuses the reference.

Face it, Black Heart, your Neo-con, religious-right, muslim hating fellowship is a dying breed, and will go down in history right next to McCarthyism.

by Craig Sayre : 6/8/09 3:29pm - Report Abuse

Here's a wonderful outline of how the United States should engage North Korea in negotiating the freedom of Laura Ling and Euna Lee.

1. Speak and treat each party with respect.
2. Understand there is perception of injustice on both sides.
3. Be willing to forgive and ask for forgiveness.
4. Refrain from belligerence.
5. Try to understand each other's value systems.
6. Don't try prove the other side wrong or make them lose face.
7. Refrain from ideological discussions.
8. Recognize that fear is a factor for both sides.
9. Use the principles of emotional intelligence to access their feelings as well as those of the other party.

Now that I think of it, this is something all of us should remember and try to employ. I know that it's a good lesson for me!

If this is pursued correctly, with sensitivity towards the other side, and compassion for the imprisoned, this could be a catalyst for a genuine rapprochement between the two countries.

by Corn Tooth : 6/8/09 3:43pm - Report Abuse

North Korea has a different style of government than the US. They protect their borders, and when they say "Stay out unless invited" they mean it. These "journalists" screwed up big time, and now they are paying the price. Sure our justice is different in this country, but this is happening in that country. Should we now get involved and tell them how to enforce their laws? Should we free anyone in this country from North Korea that has violated one of our laws? These 2 are educated adults that new full well what they were doing when they illegally crossed into a foreign country. It's not really our problem, and surely not worth getting into another mini-war over.

by Dr. No : 6/8/09 5:01pm - Report Abuse

I love it when we're commenting on the comments of other peoples' comments. It is already bad enough that this "readers' views" section covers a variety of different topics, so it is sometimes confusing trying to figure out who is referencing what. This Columbian site needs work.

by Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi : 6/8/09 5:38pm - Report Abuse

For the record, I had to get a waiver to go into the U.S. Army due to extensive damage to my right hand (loss of two fingers) which made me 4-F. I was RA, never tried like OCCNC and Bush to avoid Vietnam, never tried to avoid combat arms, signed up to do what they told me to do and go where they told me to go. I held security clearances so I was not seen as some kind of subversive. My motives for going in were I was kicked out of high school for dealing rather directly and forcefully with a vice-principal who truly deserved it. I just wanted out of town, to travel and perhaps some adventure. I passed my GED and OCT (Officer's Candidate Test)cold in boot camp at 17 years old. Those I served with in a variety of places, some very lethal, had also gone in for basically mercenary reasons and used to mock the faux patriotism and jingoism we got in our indoctrination sessions on Saturday mornings. Yes, absolutely I saw stone cold psychopaths, absolute scum, thieves, dopers, rapists, masogynists, racists, illiterate white trash who thought they were better than the 'Nigras" only because they were white, short men with a short man complex overcompensating, and other sorts who had specifically enlisted because in the fog of war, all sorts of stuff is not only possible, but even encouraged and might get you some medals and promotions if it is not too naked and difficult to cover up. Over 80% of those who served in Vietnam for example, were volunteers and I personally got the pitch from a DI, that over there it was mostly safe, some primo dope, women do anything for you and cheap, promotions come twice as fast, you get overseas and hazardous duty pay, plus if you want to stay in, you need some time in a combat area for creds. The people we were supposed to be "liberating" were continually referred to as "dinks", "slopes" "gooks" etc but never just Vietnamese.

Anyone who has really been in the military knows I am telling the truth. And yes also there were some good souls, some real heros, some who never let their buddies down, some who did their duty even though they opposed what they had been assigned to do etc, some who came in for what they said were patriotic reasons (but few had been patriotic enough to read and understand the U.S. Constitution).

by OCCNC : 6/8/09 6:30pm - Report Abuse

Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi : 6/8/09 5:38pm

I don't know where you got the idea I tried to avoid Viet Nam. I never did, I volunteered for the draft. That moved me to the top of the list. They could send me where they wanted to send me. I was offered permanent duty in Texas because of a unique skill set I have but I turned it down. Actually Viet Nam was preferable to Texas. I didn't re-enlist. The yahoos at home doing everything they could to avoid active duty were going to serve their two years before I went for another tour, simple as that. I admit I wasn't thrilled with the aspect of going to war, especially that war. But I don't denigrate those that did. They served their country as requested. I was assigned to a reserve unit to complete my time and found out what a useless (and dangerous) bunch that was - draft dodgers! I was released from the unit the day before they were called up to Viet Nam, again because I had already served active duty.

As to your service, congratulations. I think you still see the same issues here that you saw in the service. I'm beginning to think you don't see much good about anything or anyone in this country.

by Lew Waters : 6/8/09 10:09pm - Report Abuse

Omah, can't you get through any comment section without a sampling of your erroneous BDS?

You seem somewhat intelligent, even if you do admit betraying your uniform, so, try reading something unbiased for once.

Bush did indeed volunteer for Viet Nam under the Palace Alert program but failed to qualify for the program due to not having flown enough hours yet and since it was as the war was winding down, he couldn't have built up enough hours.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml

Hate Bush all you want, but do try to be accurate.

As for you "Military Service," you sure seemed to have seen a lot more negative in your 3 years than I did in my 8 years active duty. Yes, there are misfits in the Military, but far more decent people serving out of a sense of duty or patriotism.

Your warped view of Viet Nam is boggling to the imagination, especially given that you admit to not having been in country. It's almost as if you read it right out of Kerry's dubious 1971 "testimony" before the Fulbright anti-war commission.

by Jon Alldritt : 6/8/09 10:16pm - Report Abuse

I find it interesting how the far left tries to make it like any one right of the far left is a Rush follower. I find it just as interesting how the far right thinks any one left of far right is a radical. The reality is the majority in both parties are a lot more centered then what any media will say. Then again a lot of exstreamests here think they are the only one right and on the net can find someone to agree with a link or propaganda sight. You can get anything you want with wyfi at Alices Resteraunt. A interesting read on what if we did nothing on CO2
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=477&Itemid=1

by Peter Jay : 6/8/09 10:52pm - Report Abuse

Black Hand - thanks for your straight-up comments.

by Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi : 6/9/09 4:55am - Report Abuse

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

It is all there. And by the way, I denounced Kerry for his hypocrisy while on the one hand denouncing the Vietnam War yet on the other hand continually trading on it for political office. It was a war founded on lies, cherrypicked intel (I know from the inside) contrived pretexts like Gulf of Tonkin and support of a series of kleptocracies that never had any popular support just as in the case of the present Iraq War.

As for that piece of pr and revisionist history on Bush, the actual documents of his "service" are available--some and some were destroyed just before he ran for governor after a visit by Karen Hughes to the records center--show clearly what he was about and what he intended including wearing ribbons he had not earned (Air Force Outstanding Unit Award)

Bush says he's released all his records...if that's true, then has anyone seen: Any pages from Bush's flight log; Records from the Flight Inquiry Board convened after Bush was suspended as a pilot; Any evidence of Bush's reclassification into another AFSC after suspension as a pilot; Any photos of George Bush in a military uniform after 1972; Anything at all from any Alabama unit with Bush's name on it; Any copies of form 44a from the Alabama National Guard certifying attendance
Air Force Form 142 (Aviation Service Audit Worksheet); Anything proving service (not just receipt of pay) by Bush between May 1972 and May 1973?

See: Article 83 -Fraudulent enlistment, appointment, or separation
Article 85 -Desertion
Article 86 -Absence without leave (AWOL)
Article 87 -Missing movement
Chapter 432, Texas Code of Military Justice (check sections 130 and 131)
What about TCMJ, Section 432.130??

"He volunteered to go to Vietnam."
-- Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot, yesterday [2/23/04], on National Public Radio

"No, I didn't."
-- President Bush, Feb. 8, responding to a question on NBC's "Meet the Press" about whether he volunteered to go to Vietnam

by billy o : 6/9/09 7:36am - Report Abuse

Dr. No,
You just did the same thing you were complaining about. This is a 'forum' where readers exchange views. Don't post if you don't care to.

Jay = " H-h-hey Spike! What're we gonna do now huh? Huh spike? I like you spike, you're a cool guy! Gee Spike what will you say next? I agree; yeah Spike, you're right!"

by billy o : 6/9/09 7:44am - Report Abuse

Aldritt,

Why did you announce what you were going to do right before you did it? Kind of a pre-confession. You said:

"Then again a lot of exstreamests (sic) here think they are the only one right and on the net can find someone to agree with a link or propaganda sight."

Then you went on anyway and didn't find a neutral site to back up your views, but an extremely biased site supporting your beliefs. HMMMM....

by Ernest Tru : 6/9/09 11:36am - Report Abuse

Omahkohkiaayo I'poyi, thanks for puting the Bush vs Kerry patriot argument to rest. Also, thanks for your accurate description of those in our military ranks. There are few heroes, but by presenting all as such, it gives faux-credibility to crap like, "Support Our Troops", as idiots rally 'round the ol' flag without questioning why we are involved in an unjust war. Unlike Lew Waters who spent 8 years in the military (and it was my experience that those types were the real losers, as they quit after initially getting a little rank during their first enlistment that enabled them to abuse lower ranking, less senior "Snuffies", but found, too late after shipping over for their second 4-year enlistment, that they weren't going any higher up the chain due to whatever inadequacies they had.) and apparently saw no combat and the morally deficiecies of some of our combatants, I did, as I voluntered twice for duty in RVN. I saw innocent people shot and killed for sport by fellow Marines. I saw their homes burned for no reason. I saw bound men with their heads forced into buckets of what I think was excrement. I saw little kid's heads bleed after my fellow Marines threw cans of c-rations like fastballs at them from the back of our trucks. I saw family pet dogs and water buffalo used as targets, and I heard stories of atrocities against one young woman who had apparently passed a STD to a Marine in a unit I was temporarily attached to. As you said, there were good also, the majority were good, but to speak of this, as Kerry did, is commendable, as telling truth is always commendable. To state otherwise is wrong.

by Koukla 1225 : 6/9/09 8:00pm - Report Abuse

hmm all this complaining...reminds me of three old men in the urinals with masculine issues