Firefighters union to “vigorously oppose” loss of medical rescue unit
Friday, February 5, 2010
Vancouver’s firefighters union voted unanimously this week to “vigorously oppose” the impending loss of the city’s only remaining medical rescue unit, saying citizen lives will be in danger should it be eliminated.
Fire Chief Don Bivins announced Tuesday that the rescue unit, housed at Station 3, 1110 N. Devine Road, would be lost due to budget cuts.
With it gone, the 4,500 calls the busy station receives each year will be routed to a single engine at the station; a figure well above the national recommended maximum of 3,000 calls per unit annually, Bivins said.
If Station 3’s engine is already on a call, engines from surrounding stations will have to cover for it.
Bivins has said that could add a few minutes to the standard five-minute response time, with arrival times of up to 10 minutes possible.
“It’s a terrible game of musical chairs,” said Mark Johnston, president of the 185-member Local 452 Union. “If the response time is 10 minutes for someone who stops breathing, they’re going to die. Brain death is in four to six minutes.”
Bivins said he must cut $425,000 from his budget, and is choosing to do so through offering retirement incentives to four firefighters and getting rid of the medical rescue unit.
Friday evening was the deadline for firefighters to apply for early retirement. As of noon, Bivins said two firefighters had submitted the paperwork and two more had indicated they would do so.
The incentives are open to those in the fire department who have reached the eligible retirement age of 53 and have at least five years of service, Johnston said. Firefighters will get $1,000 for every year of service to the city, plus a lump payment to cover COBRA medical premiums for three months, he said.
If four people do not retire, Bivins said there will likely be layoffs.
Johnston said he realizes the city is grappling with a $6 million budget shortfall. But he suggested city leaders look elsewhere to make their cuts.
The city council “should find the money to protect Vancouver’s citizens,” he said.
Public safety comprises about 53 percent of Vancouver’s $131 million general fund. Personnel costs make up the majority of those departments’ budgets.
“If the grass doesn’t get mowed or the garbage doesn’t get picked up in parks, that’s not a good thing,” Johnston continued. “But when people die because we don’t have units in service, that’s a whole other deal.”
Bivins, however, said that the cuts were made citywide in order to provide a balanced approach.
“I wouldn’t feel comfortable suggesting that the cuts be borne by someone else,” he said. “We have to live within the constraints of the revenue we do have.”
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Comments
Instead of getting rid of the medical rescue unit, the city should get rid of about 7 or 8 cops. A medical unit is very important to the health and well being of the city residents. The loss of a few cops only means fewer traffic tickets.
Cylon12 — February 5, 2010 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
The Cops right now are going all out and giving tickets to anyone with as little as a head-light out. A little oppresive if you ask me. But, city is locked down as far as money goes, and well, more tickets = more revenue for the city.
The medical rescue team was there and helped keep my grandfather alive long enough to say good bye, and they were very helpful and I can't thank them enough, and I hate it has come to this. But there are so many cuts across the board, this is just one of the many cassualties in the long list of city cut backs.
CoachD — February 5, 2010 at 5:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
In response to cylon12's statement. How about this, the city can stop dumping money or at least so much of it on the I-5 bridge circus, er, i mean planning reviews. Public safety is and should be the citys top budget priority, cut all other areas below standard before you touch the the police and fire departments. I mean really, There are tons of federal grants that the city can apply for to cover the costs of the rescue unit. The cost of a city paralegal writing them would be less then that of defending against liability suits.
skacokid — February 5, 2010 at 5:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Maybe it time to get rid of the Union?? I'm sure that would save quite a few dollars. Maybe a little cut in pay and benefits?? We all should sacrifice for the greater cause during these tough times. Should'nt we?
jollie — February 5, 2010 at 6:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Why is there no discussion of perhaps changing the model for how emergency response to medical calls is provided? It does not need to be the fire department. Maybe someone should question the model that is currently being used instead of sticking with the status quo. There are other alternatives used by other communities to deal with this that are less expensive and still provide the same response or better than what we currently have. Why is that never seriously discussed? It needs to be. Our current system of essentially sending two vehicles to the same scene is insane. A few more dollars spent on the AMR side so response times are lower will save us money in the long run than continuing to invest in the overpriced fire response model.
In the words of Mayor Leavitt on the CRC project why are we sending an Escalade to the scene when a Ford Escape would do the same job??? Can anyone answer this or are they too afraid to look really hard at other ways of delivering the same service that have the same outcome but at a lower cost.
BadDog — February 5, 2010 at 6:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Personnel costs make up the majority of the departments budget. Everyone should take a cut in pay and benefits and get rid of the Union. This would solve the problem. simple.
jollie — February 5, 2010 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Unions are there because public safety can't strike like others. And why should anyone take a cut in benefits due to mismanagement of money by the city. What you should do is not call 911 if your house is burning down or someone breaks into your home at 300 in the morning. As a cop Im all for not going to the petty BS we get called to. Of course, I guess well call you Jollie and Cylon? when someone is robbing a bank or committing a rape because you obviously have a clue what your talking about. VPD is way under the national average for cops as it is. You could call 911 and tell them you would no longer like emergency services delivered to you if you need it. I for one would love not to have to go to your house.
troubles — February 5, 2010 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cylon
call one of those meth tweaker Larch Prison graduates when you have a burlgary.
on, on second thought, it will probably be the Larch graduate that burglars your house for meth money.
this is Hooverville 1929
No_205_Bridge — February 5, 2010 at 7:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Troubles, I would'nt want your job, i'll stick to putting out forest fires. But thank you for your service and input. Jollie,understand that we all would still be working 80 hour weeks at forty cents an hour if it weren't for unions. Yep them unions are so horrible. Some people need to go back to history class.
skacokid — February 5, 2010 at 9:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Troubles,
Thank you for your service but why the piss poor attitude? If you don't like your job or are not getting paid enough maybe you should find a new line of work. Oh wait, maybe nobody else is paying 50,000 to start with great benefits. I'm all for cops and know the job is difficult, but if you aren't happy or getting paid enough stop working as a cop.
bdogg — February 5, 2010 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Private ambulance firms mentioned above in the reference to AMR, work only if there are first responders available to respond to 911calls first. This allows for the minimum number of ambulances for the maximum coverage. This tiered system is also done by fire departments. When I was a student riding out with the Houston Fire Department, 911 calls that didn't reveal themselves to the dispatcher as being advanced level medical call, such as an earache, (yes, people call 911 for earaches,) would in Houston get an ambulance staffed with EMT-Basics. If the caller revealed the need for paramedic level care, such as chest pain or a shooting, then not only would the paramedic staffed ambulance be sent, but also nearest available firetruck or fire-ambulance.
If you eliminate a first responder, it will make any on-scene times by the private ambulance paramedics mute. What makes this tiered level response work is the arrival of medical help in a timely manner, period. That first responder is the first step that leads to the successful reviving of heart attack patients in full arrest, the hand that stops the hemorrhaging found in trauma and the much needed and appreciative hand in the preparation of the patient for transport. The latter is incredibly important. More than once during my paramedic career, the patient I transported and provided medical care to in my unit time and time again survived because when I arrived on scene, the patient had its first set of vitals signs done, their medications and allergies listed, if the first responder was a paramedic, an IV line established and depending upon protocol, the initial line of medications already onboard. These were life-saving differences.
I hope I’ve clarified this one point, 911 response works the way it was intended to work when all parts work together. Removing any first responder units from the equation equals longer response times and lessens the success of the care these highly trained medical personnel can provide. Paid, volunteer, fire department or private ambulance service medical personnel, and yes, first responder-trained police officers are all part of what makes EMS work. All of them benefit the communities they serve. I sincerely doubt the fire department union is fighting the removal of the unit only on the grounds that it affects the income of those working the units. They fight it because they know how the system works and all of us, with them, want it to work well.
chrisb — February 5, 2010 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I believe that utilization offirefighters as first responders on medical aid calls should be reexamined. What is the logic of having a 20 ton fire truck rolling around on an aid call that may only be a nose bleed? The purpose of fire trucks is for fire protection. Fire trucks are purposefully stationed in facilities that are central to the area to be served by such unit for minimum response time.So, if the fire truck is out on an aid call somewhere away from the station the response time on a fire call may very well be lenghtened due to the fact that the fire truck (and crew) is not at its assigned location.
So why do we have firefighters providing medical aid calls? I suspect that the main reason (in Vancouver & Clark County) is to preserve firefighter jobs. There are fewer and fewer fires evey year account of newer buildings and more modern building codes.
oldone — February 5, 2010 at 11:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
The number of fires firefighters traditionally fight has reduced in number over the years due to better construction standards. It is not just Clark County or Vancouver that this is happening, it is nationwide. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but most of the calls fire trucks respond to are of an EMS nature. You need first responders. You need to close the gap in response times. This isn't about saving fire fighter jobs, it is about saving lives. Granted, maybe fire departments don't always need the newest quint that comes on the market. And the union has made their job benefits quite desirable. But as a former paramedic with 911 experience, I wouldn't do my job without knowing that on medical calls such as “chest pain” and “shortness of breath” calls, the fire department will be there to help. Just as a doctor needs nurses, a paramedic needs other EMT's.
Plus don’t forget that historically, the firefighter has always provided medical care...oxygen and basic first aid kits have always been on a truck. Providing medical care is part of their duty, just as it was mine.
oldone...you have a valid point that firetrucks when on a call outside their response area are not available for a call that might happen in their area. Thus there would be an argument for more fire responders and ambulances.
I also read a comment that it seems overkill to have the fire truck respond and maybe another one and the ambulance and one starts thinking about effective use of resources. When we need the fire EMS response, they have to come in their truck, because if they do catch a 911 call to a fire, they have to be in the apparatus that is most appropriate for that function whenever they are mobile. That’s why the entire engine crew is on board when the cook for the shift goes to the grocery store.
A tiered response that uses fire departments as first responders and ambulances as paramedic medical support works best also when the tiering of 911 calls also occurs in dispatch. You are right, a "nose bleed" may not warrant a full response. In a system that uses EMD, Emergency Medical Dispatch, a series of questions, written by doctors and paramedics, are asked of the caller. Things like, is the person breathing? If no...full response. If the questions end up pointing to something minor like, "I stubbed my toe and it hurts," then only the ambulance responds. And for the record, a nose bleed can be indicative of a hypertensive crisis, a real emergency.
I know this seems mixed up and that I am probably talking in circles, but things have changed. If we don't keep fire fighters in place for when fires, or haz-mat exposure or for accidents happen, and limit their participation in medical calls, we all will suffer. Yes, everyone has to cut back in these times. But removing basic services from cities, including police officers will not benefit us.
chrisb — February 6, 2010 at 12:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I also am a retired EMT paramedic and once was very involved in helping design the tiered system we use today.
By the way ChrisB ...ever had a earache become a heart attack? Dispatch is better, but to allow a dispatcher to categorize is risky. As much as because they get their info over a phone from a lay person.
My suggestion over elimination of a rescue unit is to decrease the firefighters. There are by far less fire calls. Don't reduce police, we need them to protect us Paramedics from some really nasty situations.
I schooled at OHSU and worked in Las Vegas Nevada in the 80-90's time. Mercy Ambulance and Las Vegas Fire Department at the time was the beginning of the current system used in today's EMS systems.
jack28 — February 6, 2010 at 4:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jack28, I should clarify about dispatching. Where I was in Fort Worth, we staffed only Paramedics as call-takers and incorporated our own version of EMD, though our dispatchers were certified in EMD as well. Certain calls like CP, SOB, CVA, Shootings were rated P-1, a full response; ambulance, engine, and PD. MVA with injuries a P-2- a full response, but with the emphasis on the need for a fuller fire response; maybe an extra ambulance. An MVA without injuries-fire responded, but wouldn't pull the rescue truck, just like a car fire pulls a certain #of engine response and a warehouse fire becomes a fuller response...Say for example a 3 alarm or 4. And you are right, you can never tell what really is behind the caller to 911. And of course, an earache in fact could be a heart attack, but that is rarely the only symptom presenting and of course age of patient would contribute.
Decrease the number of fire fighters...that's a tough one, too, since they are in most departments EMTs. Hard decisions are abounding. Off record...I bet we had the same medical operations manager.
chrisb — February 6, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I witnessed 8 firefighters and a fire truck yesterday at a department store for a child who fell and had a small bump on his head. I then witnessed 6 fire fighters and a fire truck at a grocery store doing their grocery shopping on the taxpayers dime. Seems to be alot of wasted dollars going on.
jollie — February 6, 2010 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Here's a thought instead of having firefighters respond to every call have the cops to do this. And if it means hiring a few more cops that's ok. All the very first one on the scene needs to be trained in is basic first aid and CPR. That's it. What more is needed until the paramedics from AMR get there to take over? Yes one has to arrive quick on the scene but the first responders job is just to keep basic life support going. We are only talking about 2-4 minute gap here. Why does that gap need to be served by a firefighter? There's probably some arcane law or person in charge at the County or State level that won't let this happen.
BadDog — February 6, 2010 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jollie,
Each state has regulations regarding the staffing on an engine. I do not know the minimal staffing here in Washington State. Most states it is 3 or 4. What that means is that the engine never leaves the station without all required personnel on the engine. That is why when they shop for groceries, all must go. Due to the 24 hour nature of the position, grocery shopping is part of each shift. Also, is Vancouver part volunteer? Volunteers often show up in great number to every call. They do not get paid and are not wasting tax payer dollars.
Some things that can reduce a fire departments budget would be not washing the truck every day. And maybe not having the newest piece of equipment everytime something new is offered. I haven't seen really new equipment around here, though.
chrisb — February 6, 2010 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
"Why does that gap need to be served by a firefighter? There's probably some arcane law or person in charge at the County or State level that won't let this happen."
Firefighters in areas not served by a private ambulance company are the only EMS response available. Police Officers in most cities are always busy doing police things. The training for firefighting, EMS and Police work are all different. While there is overlap in the "national" standardized duties between firefighters and EMS, police work doesn't overlap except on those occasion where basic CPR may be given by an officer who arrives first or the lucky State Patrol officer assists a mom in bringing a new baby into the world along side a highway.
The history of modern EMS response goes back to the 50's-60's, from the MASH units or even further back with the medics of WWII. In the beginning of motorized responses, the local funeral home ran the ambulance service. The "ambulance drivers" would pick up the patient, place them in the back of a modified hearst and off they went to the hospital. No care to the patient was provided enroute.
Then a doctor in Baltimore (someone correct me if I have this city wrong, researched and found that if medical care is given within the first hour of trauma, the survival rate rose dramatically. This "Golden Hour" understanding led the doctor to promote the use of helicopters to transport trauma and the first programs to train "paramedics." Think of the "EMERGENCY" TV show and you begin to understand how long the use of firefighters for first response has been around and accepted as the standard of pre-hospital emergency medical care. EMS is not an arcane law, but as a time-proven effective way to provide beneficial pre-hospital emergency medical care to the community.
The biggest problem to a budget for EMS, Firefighting/EMS and Police work is the amount of people who misuse the system. It is one of the main reasons the ER are overfull. Maybe the newspaper can do an article on this subject from the perspective that the misuse actually increases the cost of care to everyone and how the response times would be better if people wouldn't use the system for "BS." It's prevalent everywhere.
chrisb — February 6, 2010 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
20% fire duty 80% medical services, We the public need to demand the outsourcing of these medical services to private providers. Who have way better control over cost.
Zoro — February 6, 2010 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B-dogg. I'll explain to you why Troubles has a "piss poor attitude" as you put it. It's because every day these police officers go out and deal with the absolute scum of the earth so that you don't have to. They place their lives in jeopardy to serve their community and it's citizens. In turn, know-it-all people such as yourself and Jollie sit around editorializing about something you know NOTHING about. Criticizing them because you either have nothing better to do or perhaps you are not educated about what police really do. How about you strap on a bullet proof vest and go put your life on the line for $50,000 per year? Nah, I seriously doubt your would do that. Easier to just sit around and bi-ch about the brave men and women who do. Keep your head in the sand you sheep.
Woosker — February 6, 2010 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I find a need for both EMTs and AMR with a need to charge for service if not a problem where they would be needed. The EMTs are a lot better qualified to help in turnovers , on docks and where macheanery are involved saveing a lot of lifes. With ARM many times you are takeing your life in your owen hands because they have little more then medical equipment on board. VPD spends to much time on tickets that could be better used for public relations and are unqualified for more then trafic controle in a medical situation. I think takeing money out of the DAs office and making them spend time on real criminal casses would be a good place to make cuts.
JonAlldritt — February 6, 2010 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JonAlldritt, I have commented before but for anyone like you who composes such good structured thoughts on a variety of subjects as you do you can't possibly be as ignorant as you spell. I usually quit reading your writings because I can't stand to read the obviously mispselled words just to prove some point.
javajenkins — February 6, 2010 at 6:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I have a life threatening condition. I have called 911 MANY times in the last 2 years, and unfortunately, will call many times over what is left of my lifetime. The paramedics from VFD seem more prepared to deal with the seriouosness of my medical condition. The AMR paramedics were young and seemed overwhelmed and unsure how to take care of me.
VFD losing their last rescue unit would mean all of us Vancouver citizens are putting our lives at risk by relying on AMR. The other 2 rescue units should be returned to service.
As for the VPD- they have a tough job and deal with the scum of Vancouver who are waiting to victimize you. Treat them with respect, and I bet it will be returned to you.
Both of these agencies are constantly scrutinized by the public they are sworn to serve. Unless you too are willing to live your career under the same microscope, then quit complaining and be thankful you live in a great city like Vancouver. Argh!
dmp324 — February 6, 2010 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Woosker,
Where did I say anything about not appreciating the job that our police do? My point was didn't he/she know what they were getting into when they signed up to become a police officer?If you don't like your job or feel the compensation isn't par then don't have a piss poor attitude about it and get another job.
Also you don't have any clue about who I am or what I do so before you open your mouth and run it, check yourself. It might help if you would have read my comment, maybe then you would have picked up on my point.
bdogg — February 6, 2010 at 8:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Interesting comments. Some of you have some back ground in public safety and have a basic understanding of what they do and why, and some don't. If you care enough to write comments then you should care enough to go to your local police or fire department and do some research and maybe ride along a shift and ask some question about their job. You may find out some interesting stuff like, why a firetruck respond to an EMS call (It's for the good of the patient not to protect firefighters jobs) or why police don't cover medical calls. " The best approach to making a difference is being well informed."
dawood — February 6, 2010 at 8:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
I am all for being informed ,I would like it though to come from a third party, now might be the time for the City to hire independent auditor to evaluate all public safety operations.
Zoro — February 6, 2010 at 10:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bdogg - Troubles never spoke of how much he makes as an officer. That was your 2 cents that you threw in. Your back handed compliment means nothing when you follow it with stupid criticism.
I don't know what you do but one thing I do know is that you don't strap on the vest, carry a gun and put you life on the line each night.
You are an ill-informed complainer that should keep his mouth shut unless you are prepared to wear a badge and live with the garbage that goes with that.
Woosker — February 7, 2010 at 12:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )