Our Readers' Views, Jan. 26

Tuesday, January 26, 2010

2009 was a great year for local Scouts

Congratulations to all members of the Boy Scouts in East Vancouver, Camas and Washougal for an outstanding year of service. During 2009, Scouts of the Columbia Gorge District provided 16,000 hours of service to their communities.

Every unit provided service and will once again lead the Cascade Pacific Council for the National Goodturn for America Program. The service projects included Walk & Knock, Goodwill Goodturn, Xmas Tree Recycling, Memorial Day events, Veterans Day parades and services, Christmas caroling for seniors, assisting members of their church congregations, as well as 44 Eagle Scout projects.

We have great Scouting programs in Clark County and have received outstanding support from the community. These youth are learning to become “Servant Leaders” by working on service projects and having fun while doing them. I am so proud to be associated with all of the wonderful leaders and families that support these youth. Clark County is so fortunate to have so many opportunities for them to participate in these types of activities.

The Scouts of the Columbia Gorge District are among the elite in the nation for service.

Mike Anderson

VANCOUVER

Gun-control bill has multiple flaws

State Senators Adam Kline, Darlene Fairley, Jeanne Kohl-Wells and Joe McDermott recently introduced Senate Bill 6396, “An act relating to banning the sale of assault weapons,” in Olympia. This is not only an attack on the Second Amendment to the Constitution, but they’ve even gone after the Fourth. Section 1 of the bill is just the standard attempt to re-establish Clinton-era restrictions on “assault rifles” by changing their appearance and reducing the magazine capacity to 10 rounds.

The scary part is in Section 2, subsection 5A, which allows a county sheriff to enter your home annually, without warrant or notification, apparently at any time, to “inspect” your assault weapon to ensure it is “safely and securely” stored. How the sheriff knows if you have one of these weapons is not addressed. Could it be through registration or just going door to door to “inspect”?

When these senators took office, didn’t they take an oath to support and defend the Constitution? I know I did when I enlisted and was later commissioned. Maybe at the time they took their oath, they whispered under their breaths, “Only the parts that we like.”

Clifton Beagle

VANCOUVER

Cuts to state services are drastic

Once in a while within a crisis, an opportunity presents itself. Our state legislators need to recognize the current fiscal crisis for what it is—a chance to find a balanced solution to ongoing budget woes. Washington is not going to thrive with years of constant cuts to vital social and health care programs. We don’t deny the need of an efficient government, nor can we deny the need for economical health care. People need a sturdy health care; kids need decent schools; we need to care for our elderly. We need resourceful and realistic solutions that will not ignore our shared values and our hope of leaving behind a decent society for our grandchildren. Some of the things at stake: 100,000 Washington citizens losing their health insurance, including 16,000 children; 50,000 pregnant mothers without prenatal support; 12,500 Washingtonians without access to family planning.

Think of your family, your friends and your neighbors; this will affect the people we care about the most.

I have faith that this is something we can accomplish together. Please ask your legislator to look at all budget options including a full discussion of potential revenue.

Sarah N. Ripley

VANCOUVER

Threats to environment intensify

Born in the 1980s, I was fairly oblivious to what had been done to our environment before passage of the Clean Air Act of 1970. Now I know all too well, and the consequences as a result of it.

Most memorable of these consequences is the Cuyahoga River catching fire in 1969 due to the pollution in it. For polluters to again have free rein over waste disposal is a frightening thought. An indicator of a nation’s wealth and prosperity is how well it treats its environment; our nation should be a shining example.

Critics say that over-regulation leads to lost jobs; however, these regulations help create safe jobs where people don’t have to risk their health cleaning up others’ messes.

For Alaska, long praised for its wild areas and unspoiled environment, to be the first state to attempt to remove such regulations would be a grave mistake.

I’m appalled at lobbyists who seek to line their pockets with money at their hoped-for victory for their employers—the largest polluters in our country. I pray that they won’t win; I fear that they will, and in the process, open a deluge of legislation from other states that wish to do the same.

Andrew Dean

VANCOUVER

Train noise is necessary

In response to recent letters to the editor concerning train traffic at crossings, including the most recent and overly sensitive “truck haters” response to Nancy Mertens’ letter, Mertens was dead-on accurate in her synopsis and in no way insinuated that the trucking industry does not play a key role in the transportation business. Both types of running freight aren’t going away anytime soon.

Freight trains haul nonperishables along with extremely hazardous chemicals and gases in large quantities.

The FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) mandates that both freight and passenger trains use locomotive warning whistles and bells in approaching and traversing all crossings along railroad main lines, for public safety.

Sadly, some choose not to stop, look, and listen for oncoming train traffic and become casualties of possibly catastrophic collisions that affect both victims and public.

My response to the original letter complaining of the warning whistles and bells noise at his crossing: Take it up with your congressman in Washington, D.C., or try to relax and get used to it. (Maybe sound-proof your home? It isn’t going to stop anytime soon.) Or move far and away from railroad main lines.

Bob Wharton

VANCOUVER

Circus entertainment is cruel

It is time to stop circuses’ cruelty once and for all. We will never support this animal abuse form of entertainment. How can those people sleep at night, knowing that circus animals are doomed to a unnatural, miserable life of isolation and sadness? Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, go away and don’t come back.

Kami Hunziker

LA CENTER

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Comments

The Scouts' oath "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and my country..."

According to Mike Anderson the Boy Scouts participated in a service project called "Xmas Tree Recycling"?

Who has taken Christ out of Christmas? Was it Anderson or the Boy Scouts?

Hock_Inson — January 26, 2010 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

There are some good letters today, but I'm short on time. Clifton Beagle it is sad commentary when you feel strong enough about an issue to write a letter but then all you could do is whine. No mention of the fact that there's a public hearing on this bill this very day at 10AM? No mention that the bill was referred to the judiciary committee and concerned citizens could call those members to lobby against the bill from ever getting passed out of committee? Just an opportunity to throw barbs rather than do something useful.

LB — January 26, 2010 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Clifton Beagle

That Constitution is really old and was a rough draft to go by anyway. Those old men back then didn't know that we would have trucks hauling things like guns across state lines or that we would have 57 states. The 10th Amendment really should just be ignored. It just gets in the way of my free healthcare.

Rightwing_Extremist — January 26, 2010 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

or that we would have 57 states

Rightwing_Extremist — January 26, 2010 at 8:17 a.m

Did I fall alseep at some point and the U.S. add 7 more states?

RedsRBest — January 26, 2010 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

How far will political correctness take us? I sure hope we're just about done with it. I have come to the conclusion that it just has to be mocked at every opportunity. Apparently common sense doesn't apply in the state of Maine. In a new homosexual agenda proposal that would give boys who call themselves girls full access to girls' restrooms, locker rooms and cheerleading squads.

At what point will people just say this is rediculous on its face. As a 'Male Lesbian' I think I should have access to either bathroom.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE....

Since I'm sure I will called a bigot, I say bring it on baby.

Rightwing_Extremist — January 26, 2010 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Well LB, I guess I'll whine the stripping of our 2nd amendment right too. Surely you don't mean that this issue shouldn't have been brought to the attention of voters?

Thanks for the letter Clifton. I was not aware of this, but now that I am, I will be contacting my Representatives.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

RedsRBest — January 26, 2010 at 8:28 a.m.

No that was actually a quote from the One on the campaign trail. Just goes to show you the people we will elect.

Rightwing_Extremist — January 26, 2010 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

A serious question though to you here... where is the line? I can't go out and buy a stinger missle. Should I be able to? If we read it literally the constitution prevents the government from infringing on my right to own arms. It doesn't limit that to only rifles used in hunting deer.

So then, I'm curious (wisecracks aside) what is the reasoning for wanting weapons that have detachable magazines with more than 10 bullets capacity? For me I can only think of one reason it's defended, and that's because people want either the capability or the threat of being able to violently overthrow the government should it get out of control. Honestly, that's why those men put it in there right? The ultimate check and balance....

So is that the unspoken reason? Or is there something else?

LB — January 26, 2010 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hock_Inson:

Don't jump on the bandwagon of the mis-informed. X is the first letter in the Greek word Christos and has been used as an abbreviation for centuries.

Striker991 — January 26, 2010 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

No that was actually a quote from the One on the campaign trail. Just goes to show you the people we will elect.

Rightwing_Extremist — January 26, 2010 at 8:37 a.m

Yes, I know. Sad isn't it?

RedsRBest — January 26, 2010 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Seems strange the only abreviation in the letter is Christmas. This is not a coincidence.

Hock_Inson — January 26, 2010 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Wow Hock_Inson:

It's amazing to me, that even when something has been explained to you, you continue to make an issue out of something that is a non-issue. It is your own understanding that is the issue here. Nothing else.

Striker991 — January 26, 2010 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Craig, my point was that if you are going to take the time to write a letter, it would be really great if the important information were conveyed. A letter like the one from Beagle, all it does is makes you mad. It doesn't tell you what to do with your anger. For instance, no mention of the public hearing which was almost certainly scheduled when the letter was written....

LB — January 26, 2010 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

There is a process for bills that get introduced. First, they have to get out of committee. So if you want to have an impact, after you get done calling your own senator, call each one that is a member of the judiciary committee. Tell them to kill the bill before it ever sees a vote on the senate floor.

LB — January 26, 2010 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"and that's because people want either the capability or the threat of being able to violently overthrow the government should it get out of control."

Exactly LB. We have the duty to defend the Constitution and bring down the government if it no longer is representative of the will of the people.

I don't own an assault rifle and probably never will so this isn't about me - it's about the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Who has taken Christ out of Christmas? Was it Anderson or the Boy Scouts?

Hock_Inson — January 26, 2010 at 8:01 a.m

My grandson is a Scout in said district. When the fliers came home the word "Christmas" was used. I've never heard anyone say "X mas" Everyone says Christmas no matter how you choose to spell it.
The use of the "X" isn't removing Christ from anything.

RedsRBest — January 26, 2010 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

I've already sent a message to Senator Benton about this - although I'm sure he's opposed to it. I don't know where Senator Pridemore is on this. Perhaps someone in his district could contact him.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

My understanding of the 2nd amendment was the "right" to bear arms where militias were concerned. This of course was adopted at a time when there was no standing military and no huge military industrial complex. As to whether you can own guns, sure you should-but its the crazys out there like the kid in Pittsburgh who killed two officers and who didn't have the mental capacities to own the weapons.Talk about a fine line!

Proudleftie — January 26, 2010 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"call each one that is a member of the judiciary committee. Tell them to kill the bill before it ever sees a vote on the senate floor."

Great idea LB. I'll get started.

Proudleftie: didn't the Supreme Court recently address that issue? I understood that they found that our 2nd admendment rights weren't limited to a standing army, but that all citizens are in fact the 'militia'.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Craig,
That's what I'm saying. The citizens are and should be a standing militia----but are we going to give every American a test to determine whether they are pre-disposed to domestic abuse or socio-pathic tendencies? Will it be based on your political leanings or the groups you are associated whether you can own a weapon. Thats a fine line. Background checks are one thing but Rorshack(sp) tests?

Proudleftie — January 26, 2010 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

The only people that I've been able to confirm who are supporting SB6396 in the Judiciary Committee are Committee Chair Sen. Adam Kline and Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles who are co-sponsors of the legislation.

All the Republicans are opposed as are Democrats Sen. James Hargrove and Sen. Randy Gordon. I didn't find out how Vice-Chair Debbie Regala is voting but I did urge a NO vote.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Proudleftie: If we look at the history of the constitution, the purpose of the 2nd amendment was to defend all of the remaining rights against tyranny. It was not about hunting, or sport shooting, or having an army. This document was written during a revolution. Put it in context. This was a right given to the people.

Whether you think it makes sense now is not the point. In my mind if people want to change it, they'd need to alter the bill of rights rather than try to dance around it.

LB — January 26, 2010 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Craig - the bad part is the chair supports it and he has control over the calendar. But given enough calls from concerned citizens, they might rethink whether this is a fight they want before 2010 elections. :)

LB — January 26, 2010 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"but are we going to give every American a test to determine whether they are pre-disposed to domestic abuse or socio-pathic tendencies?"

I agree about the problem, but don't know the answer. Maybe people should be required to take gun safety courses for certain classes of weapons, but that wouldn't eliminate the crazies. I guess we'll always have that vulnerability in an open society.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Senators Kline and Kohl-Welles are the only two I called that went straight to voicemail so I left messages opposing the bill.

It's strange that the only two Senators on the Judiciary Committee that actively support this bill didn't have their staff answering the phones this morning...

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"Craig, my point was that if you are going to take the time to write a letter, it would be really great if the important information were conveyed"
LB — January 26, 2010 at 8:57 a.m

Point taken LB. And thanks for the heads-up about the hearing this morning!

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

RWE

I'm with you let's scrap the constitution all together and let the radicals cannibalize themselves.
Then when they all sit and cry because they have no legal protection, those of us (who can think for ourselves) can round them up and put them into FEMA camps play Obama TV 24-7 give them medical weed and fool-aid 3x's a day to hold them into submission.

In the mean time let's force little boys and girls to share locker rooms and rest rooms.

http://www.mainefamilypolicycouncil.c...

Les also encourage them to be more open about their sexuality to "explore" their attractions to the same sex and reject their urges to be heterosexual. Throw MAMBLA into the mix under the direction of Kevin Jennings, Obama's Safe School Czar, and we could have a National day of pedophilia.

And let's throw our search and seizure laws and just let anybody with a badge barge into our homes and confiscate guns or anything that our Communist Government decides is inappropriate.
Only a Communist would write SB 6396.

Just check and see what they are arguing tomorrow on Olympia.

Now I will get beat up for bringing up the things that radicals are forcing on our country today.
Come on Saul and Alinski...

Bring it on we are at War!

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ray_Menlo and RWE. I hope that you'll call your own Senator and the members of the Judiciary Committee and tell them to oppose SB 6396.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Have any of you that are now whining about constitutional rights read the Patriot Act? And if you have, do you know what THAT document does to our constitution? If you really want to save the constitution, then start with the laws that have already been passed that subvert it. Our right to privacy is at stake.

Or do you have that philosophy "I've done nothing wrong, so what do I have to hide?" Remember, that it's the PRINCIPLE that we must uphold, NOT how things affect us right now. If we don't stop this burrowing into the most important document we have, whether or not it is convenient, it will soon be so full of holes, that it will crumble.

Bankster — January 26, 2010 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Pam Roach is debating SB 6396 right now on TVW.

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sen Adan Cline is a ass

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Adam Cline

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Bankster - that one issue is important does not mean other issues are unimportant. One is being discussed by members of our STATE senate today, the other is not.

LB — January 26, 2010 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ray I got to TVW too late. Can you post any info about what was said or discussed?

LB — January 26, 2010 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Exactly LB. We have the duty to defend the Constitution and bring down the government if it no longer is representative of the will of the people.

I don't own an assault rifle and probably never will so this isn't about me - it's about the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 9:02 a.m.

Fine point but, the will of the people should be that the Constitution is the rule of law in this country.

And if the economy was any better I'd be looking for an M14 or an AR15, just because they are fun to shoot. And since they are fun, the fewer times I have to stop and reload the more fun it is, thus the 30 round magazines.

OCCNC — January 26, 2010 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hock_Inson... Really? Are you seriously wound so tight that this is tripping your trigger?!?! It is the 100th Anniversary of the Boy Scouts of America and he is helping all of us to remember that the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Venture Scouts and Sea Scouts are out there doing great things for the community. Open your eyes, drop the blinders, embrace your faith and remember that not everyone is a 100% reflection of you.

Ret_Navy_Cop — January 26, 2010 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

I caught the last few minutes of Pam Roach as she was asking questions of a witness and being rudely interrupted buy Adam Cline to the point where I could not make out what she was trying to ask.

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Here is the bill Report SB 6396

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bill...

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

-whining about constitutional rights read the Patriot Act-

Probably a bit of cognitive dissonance going on as rw stalwarts finally understand why there is an ACLU...

There is a long list of Republican lead bills that are, um, interesting http://horsesass.org/?s=tenther

A couple (exempt from federal environmental laws & exempt Washington from Health Care laws) have come up and "...motions failed on a party-line vote, with every single House Republican voting in favor.

That’s just plain crazy, but what’s crazier still is that far from being a mere symbolic gesture, or ill-conceived effort at political gamesmanship, Republican legislators are eager to defend these measures on fringe Tentherist grounds,"

http://horsesass.org/?p=23888

sigh,,,,,,,

Giles_Winterbourne — January 26, 2010 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ref. Horsesass... speaks for itself.

BTW the aastro turf Obama propaganda machine has been in high gear lately

Duplicate pro-Obama letters have been submitted to dozens of publications by writers identified as "Jan Chen," "Gloria Elle," "Cherry Jimenez," "Janet Leigh," "Earnest Gardner," "Jen Park," "Lars Deerman," "John F. Stott," "Gordon Adams," "Nancy Speed," "Sheila Price," "Clarence Ndangam," "Vernetta Mason," "Greg Mitchell," "Ermelinda Giurato," "J. Scott Piper," "Robert Vander Molen" and "Terri Reese."

Obama supporters are flooding newspapers with pro-Obama letters purportedly from average citizens – with duplicate messages appearing in more than 70 publications across the nation.
One writer identified as "Ellie Light" has published identical form letters in newspapers around the country. Sabrina Eaton of the Cleveland Plai
Just as news of Ellie Light's duplicate messages broke, readers began finding various letters written by "Mark Spivey," a man who simultaneously claims to live in San Diego, Calif., and Naples, Fla. His pro-Obama letter, "Considering Afghanistan," was published by the Minnesota Daily, the Baltimore Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune and Naples News.

This letter is from a Jan Chen of Seattle, published in Seattle's Northwest Asian Weekly
http://www.nwasianweekly.com/2009/09/...

The lies / liars continue to be exposed

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

OCCNC — January 26, 2010 at 11:23 a.m.

>>> Exactly LB. We have the duty to defend the Constitution and bring down the government if it no longer is representative of the will of the people.

OK sure, but the will of which people? The people who's political ideologies fall on the right, left or in the middle?

Ace_High — January 26, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LB, Sorry you feel I'm whinning when I point out how four of our states senators, one even a lawyer (Kline), is willing to throw our 4th Amendment right against unreasonable searches under the bus. For Senator Kline to be so proud of his work with the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) back in the '60s to introduce a bill giving law emforcementg the right to enter a home without probable cause, warrant or hot pursuit in order to "inspect" is amazing and sad.

As for the timeliness, I wrote that letter the day after the bill was introduced on January 14. Last Friday the Columbian called and said they wanted to run it but since I'd signed it with only my initials "C. J." they wanted permission to print my first name. At the time I wrote it the bill it hadn't been scheduled for todays hearing in committee. And lately I was begining to wonder if the Columbian was sitting on it until after the committee hearing.

As to why I didn't tell anyone what to do. I gave the benefit of the doubt to the readers that they'd be able to figure out who and how to contact their representatives in Olympia.

LCDR Clifton J. Beagle, USNR-Ret.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Does anyone else feel like this comments site is a reflection of how the citizens, in general, of this nation feel?

Ace_High — January 26, 2010 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

My apologies to CJ... I forget these letters are from an old school printed paper, there is a delay. I have grown too accustomed to instant news.

I don't think many people know what they can do. Or how a bill becomes law and what steps are involved. Maybe I should have just left it at "call these people" and left out the other commentary.

LB — January 26, 2010 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Geezer

Kline is SDS?

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ray, According to his official Washington Senator website.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LB, No harm, no foul. Believe me, after 32 years in the canoe club I've taken far more abuse.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Thanks Geeze

You just powdered my musket..

http://www.sdc.wa.gov/senators/kline/...

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 12:17 p.m.

"Duplicate pro-Obama letters have been submitted to dozens of publications"

This from a guy who steals someone elses user I.D. In the dictionary next to hypocrite you will find a picture of Ray.

S_Mac — January 26, 2010 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ray, I was amazed too. How a card carring member of the SDS and SNCC with all their radical anti-government views could later write and introduce a bill allowing "the Man" to walk into your home and poke around just boggled my mind. Just goes to show you how some are willing to shred the Bill of Rights in order to get their way.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Gotta give Kline credit for the work he did in Mississippi - other than that I don't see much to support if I lived in his district. Another lawyer raking in the dough off poor people - now he'll be double-dipping when he retires from the Senate.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LB, And by the way, when I sent that letter to the editor, it went via the Columbian's website, not the U.S. Postal System.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Well Ray, as Captain Powers the Commander of Destroyer Squadron Seventeen that I served under in the '80s used to say, "Keep your powder dry and seek large targets."

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Geezer

What does not surprise me it that the radicals in this state
are more than willing to elect these bottom feeders that are more that happy to blow up police stations as have a candle light dinner with Fidel Castro.

In his own words;
"We were radical, we were belligerent, and sometimes we were self-righteous. But you know something? By and large, we were right.) It was a year well spent for a young man interested in social policy, and the lessons I learned are still with me".

His wife is a superior court judge in King County

We are so lucky...
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en...

we have our own litte Bill Ayers and Bernedine Dohrn right here in WA State

I like the mug shots best.

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I see where there is another piece of bad gun control legislation in the House, HB 2477, introduced by Representatives Williams and Chase. This bill will make the seller "...strictly liable for damages for any injury or death of another person that results from the criminal use of that firearm by any person." if that sale takes place at a gun show or event and the buyer isn't able to pass the criminal background check. This law applies to inside the event and the parking areas around it.

Now I can see a law reguiring all private sales or trades at a gun show to be run through "Insta-check" to confirm the parties involved are allowed to possess a gun under the law. After all, the back ground check is there and available for a small fee. And all the "retail" vendors at the show are using it. That would cut down on criminals buying and selling at the event But to apply strick liability forever on the seller no matter who uses the gun at a later date is just bad law. I mean thirty years down the road you get sued in civil court because a gun you sold to a private party harms someone no matter who pulled the trigger. Give me a break!

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BeezerGeezer,

" if that sale takes place at a gun show or event and the buyer isn't able to pass the criminal background check.

I would interpret that as meaning if the buyer can't pass the background check and the dealer still sells him the gun then the dealer would be liable for damage done with that gun in the future. It seems simple, don't sell a gun to someone who can't pass a criminal backgound check.

Ace_High — January 26, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

This bill isn't that unreasonable in that it puts teeth into the background check requirement, but they need to narrow the scope of it. As written, it is too wide. Let's say Subject A sells a gun to Subject B (who is ineligible to own a firearm), but the information on the criminal backgroud check is inaccurate or doesn't show the latest information, so the sale goes through. Subject B loses the gun through theft to Subject C. Subject C sells makes a private party sale to Subject D. Subject D while cleaning the gun acidentally shoots and injures a bystander. Under this law, Subject A is guilty of that injury and open to civil damages even though Subject A followed the law to the letter.

Moreover, as written, the bill will continue to push legitimate sellers into the black market. Not many will be willing to mortgage their futures.

Williams and Chase need to insert language that would protect those who concientiously follow the law but who through no fault of their own sell a gun to an ineligible purchaser.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ace, This law is aimed at private parties, not dealers, that go to a gun show and sell a firearm to another person at the event. All the vendors/dealers at the show run their sales through Insta-check as required by law. This bill is for sales between individual attendees at the event that take place on the "sidelines" or outside. Similar to a private sale, say through an ad in the local paper, where no licensed dealer is involved and no requirement exists to run the sale through Insta-check. The bad part of this bill is that instead of just requiring these sales go through a back ground check they impose civil liabilty on the seller for whatever criminal act is done with that firearm during the life of the seller. And heck, maybe into their estate. The authors aren't so much interested in keeping the guns out of the hands of criminals as they are in punishing the seller that may have unknowninly sold the weapon to someone who is not allowed possess it.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I've read that bill,

Also Ed Murray is pushing SB 5476 to abolish the death penalty.

ANOTHER Obama asstro turf OFA is pushing a Talk Radio call in campaign

"Please help us by answering these questions. This will allow us to build a database of political call-in radio programs.

Please enter the correct language, discussion topics, and phone number for this talk radio program."

This is kind of like Flag.gov instead of turn your neighbor it's turn in your local conservative Talk Radio station.

Ray_Menlo — January 26, 2010 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BeezerGeezer January 26, 2010 at 3:19 p.m.

OK. I get the picture now.

Thanks

Ace_High — January 26, 2010 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

OK sure, but the will of which people? The people who's political ideologies fall on the right, left or in the middle?

Ace_High — January 26, 2010 at 12:17 p.m.

Now there is the question! And the answer would be the ones who have exercised their 2nd Amendment rights.....

Who is it who wants to keep guns out of the citizen's hands?

OCCNC — January 26, 2010 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

One of the sponsors of HB 2477, Brendon Williams, said "I think the bill's dead" in an e-mail he sent in response to my inquiry.

Craig_Sayre — January 26, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Just read the Senate Bill Report SB 6396. The pro side has consumed way to much Kool-aid. Their position is "If a weapon is made to kill humans, then it is an assault weapon." And they claim that "More Washingtonians are killed by firearms (Notice they didn't say assault weapons) than all combat deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined." Do they mean annually or are they comparing our state's 120 year history to the eight years of war on terror? Not to mention how many of those Washingtonians died while doing a criminal act. The death of the killer of those four Lakewood officers comes to mind. You can always rely on the extreme sides of any position to tell some tall tales.

BeezerGeezer — January 26, 2010 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

So,

Beck is a credible journalist, huh? How about the story he ran regarding ACORN giving advice to a "journalist" named James O'Keefe dressed as a pimp on how to work the system. Remember that? he ran it into the ground, in fact, there was about a month where a day didn't go by in which he talked about this incident.

Well, well, NOW it has been reported by REAL journalists that Mr. O'Keefe has been arrested trying to gain access the phone system in Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana's office. He has been charged with attempting to tamper with a United States controlled phone system. He dressed up as a phone repairman with two other men and went to Landrieu's office saying that they needed to check the receptionist's phone and then asked to check the phone closet that controlled all the phones in the office. Can anyone say Watergate?

All you Beckites out there really need to remove the leash by which this so called "journalist" has been leading you around. I wouldn't be surprised if Beck wasn't somehow involved in this espionage or at least inspired O'Keefe to do it. How far did Mr. O'Keefe's influence get into the GOP itself? I can't wait to hear the explanation for this one.

I can almost guarantee that this is NOT a story that will be ran on the FOX (fake) News network.

Bankster — January 26, 2010 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

-Ref. Horsesass... speaks for itself.-

Note you don't mention the bills linked to, just attacking the messenger...

Giles_Winterbourne — January 26, 2010 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hey Ret_Navy.cop

No big deal on my part, just curious why a guy supporting what is probably the best youth programs in America, or perhaps the world, can't write "Christmas". There is a reason for the holiday and it shouldn't minimize the Scouts.

Hock_Inson — January 26, 2010 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Bankster - will be interesting to see how Beck spins this one! The guy bought himself some serious jail time with this stupid ploy!
Wonder if Beck & Company, RNC or TP will come to the aid of his $$defense fund?

Mrs_T — January 26, 2010 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Poor kid must not have heard of Watergate. Rest assured if a liberal "documentary" movie producer had been involved in the same sort of shenanigans O'Keefe was, conservatives would be demanding his head on a platter. Why is it republicans feel it's alright to commit political espionage to further their political agenda?

S_Mac — January 26, 2010 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jamming phone lines, wire taps, internet espionage, etc. Their last leader was able to circumvent the Constitution, so why not? They were probably operating under the "Patriot Act".

Mrs_T — January 26, 2010 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

-see how Beck spins this one!-

Also it is coming to light that he was cellphone video recording it.

And a couple of other participants have some interesting connections.

And there is a wingnut thinktank possibly involved.....

Giles_Winterbourne — January 27, 2010 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The whole ACORN/BECK/O'Keefe crap is nothing more than a smokescreen for something our government doesn't want us to know or hear about. Beck is telling the American People who are fed up with our government, just what they want to hear. Last Friday, Beck had his commentary...pointing out Marxism, Communism, and followers of Mao and now compares them with politicians in DC. Like it is the first time this has ever happened! Anybody feel like puppets on a string?

goldenoldie — January 27, 2010 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Regarding senate bill 6396: It is a typical political knee jerk reaction to current events that attempts to usurp our constitutional rights that "our" elected officials pledged an oath to uphold. This bill is clearly a violation of the 2nd and 4th amendments. ( 2nd) "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
(4th) "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." I ask this...have Adam Kline, Darlene Farley, Jeanne Kohl-Wells, and Joe McDermott failed in their oath to uphold the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights through ignorance, or is it treasonous contempt for the citizens who elected them?

MOLON_LABE — January 27, 2010 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

goldenoldie - more like a puppet that's strings get more tangled every day!

MOLON_LABE - like the illegal wiretaps without warrants?

Mrs_T — January 27, 2010 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Mrs_T - By All Means...!!! ANY circumvention of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights to undermine and usurp the WILL and RIGHTS of the People to further an constitutionally unlawful agenda is a treasonous act against the Citizens of the United States of America regardless of party affiliation.I find it hard to accept that the Patriot Act, with it's vast and massive legislation wasn't a pre-planned concept. It reared it's ugly head just "days" after "9-11". My....how convenient...The 342 pages of the legislation were "rushed" through ratification. It violates the 1st,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th and possibly the 13th and 14th amendments. And finally, may I quote a favorite Patriot...

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

B. Franklin

Wake Up Sheeple!!!

God help us and God bless the United States of America

MOLON_LABE — January 27, 2010 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

One of my favorite quotes, also!

Mrs_T — January 27, 2010 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )