Open Forum, Aug. 1-7

Published:

 

Top 5 most read stories on Columbian.com last week:

No. 1) B.G. photographer captures precious time for grieving families

No. 2) Clark County’s middle class feeling squeezed

No. 3) Portland climber dies after falling off Beacon Rock

No. 4) Climber who fell from Beacon Rock was Oregon firefighter

No. 5) Woman slams car into power pole

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Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor Libby Tucker, libby.tucker@columbian.com, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski, matt.wastradowski@columbian.com.


520 comments

Comments

Good morning to you too, Allen. And yes, it is beautiful! I almost hate to re-post what I did in last week's forum, but I find the data too important to ignore. I'll just put it in my next post.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Farmers fear illegal-labor crackdown by Rob Hotakainen/McClatchy-Tribune

Okay people, my comment regarding the Columbian article link above has nothing to do with the fact that there's farms in the US who hire immigrants, legal or not...but instead, I am bringing to your attention what it is they are picking in the photo caption. Look at what they are wearing!

Employees pick strawberries on Steve Sakuma's farm outside of Burlington. On a hot mid-July morning, they wear long sleeves and pants, hoods, gloves and face masks as protection from pesticides. Sakuma estimates that 80 percent of his workers are illegal immigrants.

Why is that? Because of the pesticides on the strawberry plants. Doesn't that strawberry shortcake sound just so yummy right now???

Disgusting in my opinion that the produce picked is even allowed to be sold to the public.

Columbian...thanks for bringing in this article which clearly shows everyone just what it is we are receiving from the farms. Sometimes that "fresh" produce isn't as healthy as we think.

Here's the information about the farm depicted in the picture. Note they have a "small fruit research lab" mentioned in the link below.

http://www.sustainablenorthwest.org/stories/sakuma-brothers/

It concerns me when "sustainable" is blended with GM growing and research labs. Care to see who these guys rub elbows with??? Great!!! Tillamook Cheese, too???

http://nwagbizseminar.com/NWAE%20Seminar%20Brochure%202010%20FINAL.pdf

BIG, BIG sigh....

All the more reason to grow my own vegetables and fruit, sustaining my garden without pesticides and herbicides produced by Monsanto and Dow Chemical. It's bad enough the pollution is attacking them.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


of course the picture wouldn't show up. Here it is:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/au...

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Morning Mister Lou Brancaccio. I hope your weekend went well.

I have a concern I would like to share with everyone here on the Columbian as I am a bit confused. In recent changes on the C, it was brought to our attention that we cannot utilize certain verbiage...even words which are expressed with symbols yet in your Press Talk this morning, it is clear you were quoting Ms. Lentz's comment directed towards you. Of all things, why would you even suggest putting in the expletive you did? Isn't that a violation of Columbian's policies when it comes to commenting individuals saying the same thing who later have their comment stricken from the record? Maybe it's a good time for Libby or Matt to step in and explain the rules of the road regarding this.

I do understand the point of your Press Talk and I don't mean to sway away from what your intentions were in this week's write, but I believe sharing that expletive tarnishes the write...and sir, that is my opinion I thought I'd share. No hard feelings, though.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**(s) **Well Alleycat...with what they are spraying on our fruits and vegetables and injecting into our meats, polluting our fishing waters...it's no wonder American people are in a mental dead zone with no clue of self preservation. Monsanto, Dow, the USDA and FDA are preserving everyone all by their little lonesomes. **(s)**

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, good point regarding the attempt at doing away with the clean water act, although it could basically be because of the wasted funding she recognized within the departments involved. As far as dumbing the people down...I'd begin with those power drinks and sodas as my first target, combined with the ridiculous advertising on television where people don't even have to think about what they are watching...the entire media circus, the grandstanding with regards to our elected officials, fast food and the list goes on.

..

Alleycat, canning food isn't what I'd say something consistent with the "depression era." In the 1800's, it was common practice to preserve foods for the winter months and many generations have continued ever since...my family as well. That's what self reliance is all about...not depending on outsiders to provide your foodstuffs. Do I have to buy new vegetable seeds every year at the store? Well, maybe for a few...but they're all Heritage Seeds, nothing GM, nothing cured with insecticides or toxic fungicides. Otherwise, I harvest my seeds when I harvest my veggies. Onions, lettuce and carrots can be harvested when you allow them to bolt out. Garlic...easy as pie. Save a few cloves from your garlic plants and there you have next year's crops. The same goes for taters as well. I'm wondering...have you ever tried potato chips made right at home??? They're quite different from the crap in the bags. Well Alley as well as everybody else, I could continue rambling on...but I've got a busy day in preparing my fall garden. Nothing better than home-grown veggies, literally spitting in the eye of BIG Box stores when it comes to *MY* produce, lol. And yes, I share with family and friends.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie: Your post at 6:49 am is an excellent example of why I keep logging on and reading the basement Forum. I learn something valuable that promotes thought and encourages action! You opened my eyes to Monsanto months ago, for which I am grateful. As for protecting themselves from the toxic chemicals, the farm workers take huge risks. Why would we want to consume that fruit?

Press Talk was finally posted online, I see! With all the news that's fit to print (Murdoch scandal, debt ceiling crisis), the editor chooses to focus on yet another overblown tale that paints him as a perpetual victim. Lou, buck up, fella. Temple Lentz is a smart Chicago-educated woman who tells it like it is sometimes. So what?

How about giving us your take on Murdoch's brand of journalistic ethics? Or???? There must be some good ideas in that noggin' that don't focus on gotcha games.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I don't think it's out of line to assume that we have all learned something from everyone on the forum. It's a good group of folks who share thoughts and ram heads together here in our little basement.

..and thanks for the compliment, friend.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Forethought @ 8:35

Following is a totally hypothetical LOL from me to you!

PadmaRani — August 1, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Forethought,

An interesting post. Are you suggesting Lou's recent Florida vacation was in fact a job hunt?

However, I'm more interested in what's behind this post of your's. The first thought that came to mind was that I believe you showed up here a while back saying there was a revolt of sorts at The Columbian - correct? We all had a nice little conversation, did a lot of speculating, and ruffled a few feathers at The Columbian. For what?

At the time, someone speculated your "inside knowledge" leads to you either working there or having close ties to someone who does. I recall you opting for the latter, and then becoming a bit evasive - protecting your source.

Several people who elected to remain in this forum (vice transitioning to facebook) have voiced what we believe the role a newspaper should play, and how we feel The Columbian sometimes fails to meet this. That and $5.00 (inflation) buys coffee.

So, I'm skeptical of your questioning us on the role of the editor in chief.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Forethought: I think you ask a good question. I have been wondering about major changes at The Columbian for a variety of subtle signs and hints. I will keep those to myself.

I need to form some thoughtful ideas to respond to your challenge at 8:35 am, so will get back to the Forum on this. It is a worthy exercise in loyal, long-term reader/subsriber feedback!

Thanks for the idea!

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Forethought — August 1, 2011 at 8:35 a.m

I would think it would be beneficial for them to go a completely different direction. First find someone with journalistic integrity, someone that isn't going to use the paper as their own litter box or a place to make angry all the politicians and community leaders that could be beneficial to the well being of the community. You need someone who is FAIR, someone who, if they are going to investigate someone, will give both sides of the story and leave their personal feelings out of it.

Secondly, they will need to be honest. If asked a question, they can't attempt to sidestep the question or put a politicians spin on it.

And third, no wiretaps. So that leaves out anyone that has recently worked for Murdock.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I will say I am reading a great book called "Multipliers" right now that outlines what makes a good organizational leader. The book's authors are Liz Wiseman and Greg McKeown.

The Columbian would need to find a leader who is not threatened by his or her staff's talent and intelligence. Someone who rewards divergent thinking and ideas and who does not diminish it or feel personally threatened by it.

Experience counts, but so does youthful energy and creative ideas.

Those of us on the Forum who supervise others: read Multipliers. Great ideas.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Of course this is just hypothetical and has no real reflection on current events. (disclaimer)

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Absolutely, hawkeye. Just a creative exercise in building online discussion community.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, I forgot, if someone were going to Florida, make sure you buy a brick house that has been there for at least 20 years (hurricane tested) and get lots of sunscreen, and maybe research what kind of hair products don't melt in the heat. It's got to be hard keeping ones hair slicked back in the sun.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Have you all heard the latest?

The city of Milwaukie (Oregon) wants to build a baseball stadium on their soon to be Max line and bring their own minor league team. If P-town can't support one, how can Milwaukie or Vancouver?

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A college roommate/high school friend of mine was an editor at Newsday for years before she passed away from pancreatic cancer. Her name was Margaret "Peg" Finucane (RIP, my friend). She was a journalism professor at Hofstra, too.

I remember her discussing what makes a good editor and the challenges in holding the position she did so long. I found some of her points in a 2008 blog by freelancer Michelle V Rafter:

http://michellerafter.com/2008/09/29/top-10-qualities-of-a-good-editor/

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I posted a link from the Oregonlive article about the proposed stadium in Milwaukie on the Downtown Development Forum.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Am I wrong in saying on Press Talk, that Lou seems to be having a Pity Party...serving Whine and Cheese?

Did someone call a WAH-bulance for him?

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 1, 2011 at 10:18 a.m

With all the whining about something that happened, what a year ago..ummm he may need one...the old ticker must be stressed ..(S)

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.theonion.com/articles/emergency-team-of-8thgrade-civics-teachers-dispatc,21023/

"So, in summary, it appears the deal just negotiated means both parties agree on cutting $1 trillion in spending only, with no tax hikes. The Republicans will shift to the 2012 budget deadline for a new hammer to extract extra spending cuts. Defense will remain effectively untouched. And, in exchange for $1 trillion in cuts and no tax hikes and leaving defense spending untouched Obama gets an agreement not to raise the debt ceiling issue again before his next election. But don’t think that’s the end of the story. It’s just the beginning.

The bigger attack on social security, Medicare, Medicaid is still to come. The next round in what amounts to ‘class economic warfare by legislation’ is the 2012 budget negotiations that are supposed to conclude by September 23. Republicans will get another ‘bite of the apple’ in spending only cuts at that time. And Obama and Democrats will likely cave in to those demands yet again, as they have repeatedly the past year.

But the even bigger bite will come as a result of another provision in today’s agreement: the creation of a so-called ‘Bipartisan Commission’ to reduce the debt and deficits by even greater magnitudes. That Commission will make still further major proposals for cuts by November of this year, to be voted on by Congress before year-end."

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-1-trillion-debt-ceiling-deal-of-july-31-by-jack-rasmus

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at noon ( | suggest removal


In life, one sometimes has to ask themselves if what they read is fact or is it satire. The Onion has an uncanny way to sound satirical but is usually right on queue. They've got the right idea, though...kind of like the old lemons/lemonade mentality.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie,

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/01/farmers-fear-illegal-labor-crackdown/#comments

This seems to be the most active on the site.

Not a mention of the pesticides, though the rw/tp seem to think that his having to hire illegals is :

1- proof of the laziness of Americans

2 - a way to solve American unemployment

3 - a way to rant about how high the minimum wage is.

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Folks, I'd asked the question if anybody knew what the "Deal" would entail and found this:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12357/BudgetControlActAug1.pdf

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Steve Sakuma had some of his workers deported after a federal raid. They quickly returned with different names and Social Security numbers; an immigration lawyer told Sakuma he had no justification not to rehire them.""" (caption under picture which states the name, Rob Hotakainen)

Basil, I find it interesting that something I had said months ago...that the "undocumented workers" are coming back with someone else's SSI number...and I remember I was told I had no data to verify, but now it's a distinguished member of the Western Washington Agricultural Association and farm owner (who has been quoted as saying the same thing I had said. This is a quote from Mr. Sakuma himself.

Also Basil, in your quote at 12:36 pm, Those are your assumptions, perhaps??? rw/tp??? Is that your belief because of what the folks on FB are saying? I didn't see anybody mention their political affiliation. It is my opinion that the issue isn't the laziness of Americans, but the need for the farmers to hire those willing to do the hardest of the grunt labor with no Bennies and possibly no knowledge of governing laws pertaining to workers rights OR the fact that they keep their mouths shut and just do the work.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**(s) **and Basil...the FB commenting crowd doesn't have *ME* to bring it to their attention. All the more reason some interaction should be implemented with FB and the Basement crowds meeting together in discussion. **(s)**

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


say wha???? Alleycat...

nevermind

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*" Is that your belief because of what the folks on FB are saying?"*

Yup, fits the trope.

". It is my opinion that the issue isn't the laziness of Americans, but the need for the farmers to hire those willing to do the hardest of the grunt labor with no Bennies and possibly no knowledge of governing laws pertaining to workers rights OR the fact that they keep their mouths shut and just do the work."

So, are you saying that Americans won't do the work because they know that the conditions don't meed minimum work health, safety, wage, conditions?

So, we have alleycat talking about how stupid we voters are and you saying we are too smart?

Note that the re/tp make it sound like it should be a gov't program of taking welfare people and putting them in the field .

Now, if we assume that Mr. Sakuma, et al are paying a legal wage and meeting some level of minimum working conditions (including pesticide exposure), then what would be preventing Americans from applying?

Do you think the 'lazy' trope really meets any kind of smell test?

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Doing a bit of research on cost of my asthma inhaler.
Found the cheapest here in the states for 1 month is $233.00, yet at a pharmacy in Canada I could get 3 months supply for $155.00.

This speaks volumes on how much the drug companies have a strangle hold on all of us here in the states.

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


" doesn't have ME to bring it to their attention."

Actually, if you google the first para, you'll discover that the photo and caption aren't in most of the newspapers where article was posted.

Then notice that most of the posters here aren't commenting on anything local, just the national stuff.

And then look at which blogs posted links to that article.

And my bet is that the C staff has seen the refs and traffic and are seeing what the shift to FB as wrought.

Now, how about the C sending a photographer and reporter out to some of the local orchards and farms and asking similar ?'s?

Heck, they could even just go to a local farmer's market ( (s) I think there is one a few doors down from their office (/)) and ask what's it like on those farms and orchards......

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 1:26 p.m.

Sounds like you are starting to 'get it'...

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 1:26 p.m

You can most likely order it from India for a fraction of the Canadian cost.

frobert — August 1, 2011 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 1:27 p.m

I have ALWAYS "gotten it" just never bothered to check before.

frobert — August 1, 2011 at 1:31 p.m

Trouble is, I don't know if it is legal to order from another country.

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 1:35 p.m.

My wife was on a medication about 3 years ago, cost for 6 months supply in the U.S. was $1200 cost from India including shipping was $53. I seem to remember reading recently however that the government started cracking down on this "for our own good".

frobert — August 1, 2011 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 1, 2011 at 1:40 p.m.

That's why I said don't know if it's legal.
Funny how the government seems to think we are so child like we can't make decisions on where to buy medicine.
I wouldn't buy from Mexico or India, but Canada I would if I knew for sure it was legal.

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone planning major surgery and without adequate insurance should look into medical tourism.
My 10 year old broke his thigh bone in the Philippines last year. almost a week of hospitalization in a private, modern hospital room, surgery,stainless steel implant, medication, follow up care, and everything was less than $2000. We were covered by Blue Cross fortunately, but I am sure the same services would have cost many thousands of dollars more here in the U.S.

mangoboy — August 1, 2011 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No doubt Mangoboy, my husband had sinus surgery a couple years ago. Out patient, was in the hospital for 5 hrs. Doctor and hospital costs was over $15,000.

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, you must be using Advair. My Mother in Law was in the hospital over the weekend, a slight bout of pneumonia and they gave her an Advair inhaler to use while in there. Every time she needed it, they took it from the in room safe, gave it to her to use and then locked it up again. Now when she was discharged, the Doctor prescribed the Advair for her and at the pharmacy it was $300 after insurance. I asked the nurse about the one in the hospital that she had to pay for and they said *they couldn't give it to her*, ***they have to throw it away.*** That was what they were told to do, those were the rules. And you wonder about the high costs of medicine !!!!!

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 2:08 p.m.

I think Canada is legal. Some people cross the border to get their meds.

I know I get my cat meds from up there, no prescription needed.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok, so now they vote on this "deal." TPers seem to have won. Now what are the rest of us supposed to do? I mean that as a serious question. Do we protest? write/call/email? Do we take it and promise as always that we will vote them all out which typically translates into just voting the other party back in? What CAN we do?

luvithere — August 1, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding recommendations of purchase of prescriptions and surgical procedures abroad???

All I can say is...

Unbelievable! Care to play Russian Roulette???

Unbelievable

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""TPers seem to have won."""

With all due respect luvithere, nobody has won.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Watching the vote and disgusted."

Alleycat, in my case...reading the afternoon comments and disgusted.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


well they got a few points in, didn't they? But yea, I get your point. We all lost. The country lost, period. The empire has fallen

luvithere — August 1, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, I'd rather choose number 3.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


yep, #3 sounds best actually. Can't be one of them, too sick. prefer not to be prey either. Anybody know a nice country to live in?

luvithere — August 1, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No Luvithere, the empire hasn't fallen. The empire builders wasn't the government. It was the people and can still be. Just because our mighty leaders have screwed everything beyond repair and they are trying to fix it with highly undersized Band-Aids. It is the duty of each and every one of us to build our own empires...and it doesn't necessarily mean pouring out a bunch of cash to have the little man do the job for you. My empire is the empire of Self Reliance where I am responsible for my own actions and my own destiny...not overpaid special interest-backed bags of hot air.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere...

...how about the United States of America for starts.

..

Amen, Alleycat.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, you know that headache you were speaking of earlier...

Well my friend...just reading what I have today has just given me a HUGE virtual migraine. Time to exit stage right for me.

As I said earlier....

Unbelievable

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL, alleycat. No chemicals needed, just a quiet room away from electronics and the ability to rest the tense muscles by listening to good music. Interesting concept, tho.

Looks like the House passed the "Deal." They expect the Senate to pass it with flying colors.

Hmmm...

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is a nice country, yep. But it has fallen to special interests as you pointed out, GO. Politically speaking, we hurt ourselves, the citizens, here, and our world standing. All due to some morons in DC who get paid for doing nothing.. (gasp-moron a bad word? Will I get kicked off?) And will we vote them back in? Yep, we will.
I think I go soothe a pain myself now.

luvithere — August 1, 2011 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, all. I have been running errands all day, listening to the radio and various interviews. I have backed off my panic mode a bit after hearing more about the Deal.

I do not have my head all wrapped around it all yet, but I am trying my best. It's gonna take time to sort it all out.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 3:49 p.m

Yep it's Advair.
Most likely the one at the hospital was a sample and not a 60 dose one.
Sample ones have 30 doses.
Luckly I pay $60 a month for mine after insurance.
The patent runs out on it next year, but because of the complex mix of drugs that is used to make it, doubtful if a generic one will be available soon. So the price will remain high.

My emergency inhaler is Combivent, that cost $75 a month. It's patent also runs out next year, but due to some law the patent is held hostage sort of indefinitely. Even tho Combivent is one of the oldest asthma inhalers my insurance company still has it on the top price tier. Go figure.

I'm just glad that the rest of my medicines for BP are generic.
I also found out that the potassium pill and water pill I have to take costs more even tho they are generic if I went through the insurance company to purchase them. I pay out of pocket for them they cost me $14.00 a month, through insurance I would have to pay $24.00. Figure that one out! LOL

ELISI — August 1, 2011 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe a bit late, seeing as how the conversation was about 10 - 10:30 this morning. Anyhow,

Personally, I think jumping Lou over his column is a little inconsiderate. Wasn't it 2 or 3 days ago when we had a little chat about the Lentz e-mail? I asked for more detail at the time and didn't get a clear answer. Well, even though it's just his side of the story, Lou made what transpired quite clear.

I'm thinking he was dead on the mark by asking Mayor Tim to clarify his reversal on tolling. If it had been me asking, the questions would have been tougher - Tim Leavitt was a City Council member, C-Tran board member, and was involved in CRC planning BEFORE the mayoral election. If you ask me, he almost certainly LIED to get elected - there's no way he learned anything new after becoming mayor that would have led to his epiphany.

And if you ask me, THAT was why Lentz told Mayor Tim to tell Lou to F- Off. Her later back tracking was/is irrelevant.

Again, I've only got one side of the story. But from what I've heard, I'd say Lou B's only faults with this were 1) being a little too much of a gentleman, and 2) not pursuing his original question far enough.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Reference the discussion on foreign medications.

If you can get them cheaper from Canada, I'm guessing you're probably OK - you've hopefully got a better than even chance, anyhow. But I'd be cautious buying from some of the other countries mentioned - especially India. I read somewhere that even though India manufactures some of the world's best generics, they're also the primary source of counterfeits. My wife is a cancer patient and gets Procrit shots to keep her blood hemoglobin (or something) up. The literature was warning against buying from anyone except a reliable source - it seems the Indian counterfeit sold about 10 years ago was made with with nonsterile water and in the wrong combinations and was making people sicker. There was also a reference to as much as 10% or more of the low cost drugs from these sources were counterfeit.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere,

I think it depends on who you call a moron. People on the facebook side used to call Bob Larimer a lot worse than that.

Which leads me to the kn_dalai attack on hawkeye yesterday. What was that about? The way I read it, kn_d came up and asked why Bob L was booted from facebook. Nailingit answered with as much as known and kn_d was OK. Then hawkeye adds he opened his mouth and spoke his "mind" and kn_d went berserk. I'd usually ignore this, but kn_d went on with a rant that included libertarian socialists and collectivism, which were things I mentioned in a totally unrelated discussion with frobert and mangoboy.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, if you figure it our, will you let me know? I didn't get it either.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy,

A day late - sorry. I agree with your take on what Chomsky preaches 100%, which was why I went on to mention the example of Stalin's collectives. I would agree with him if it wasn't for our own human greed - I'm thinking he, like so many others who've tried to make the 18th & 19th Century French anarchist movement into a valid governing approach, falls short. Probably because he lives in the ideal world of academia and doesn't see us for what we really are. Orwell's Animal Farm should be mandatory reading for everyone - in one short book you can find the main shortcoming of capitalism, communism, and almost anything else in between the two. Namely - we, the people, are guaranteed to screw it up because we know we deserve more than our neighbor.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: You appear to be a very kind and considerate person, which contributes to the positive culture that we enjoy for the majority of the time on here.

Here is my concern about the most recent Press Talk column. I think it was pay back for Temple Lentz's snarky comment to the previous week's Press Talk. Pure and simple. She chastizes the editor very directly and specifically (and knowledgeably) and he comes back the next week with a two year old email, meant to embarrass her. He brings in the tolls issue for good measure, just to make sure he has enough commenters on his side. I can guess that it probably did not faze Ms. Lentz in the least. She would probably send the email again, if given the opportunity.

It spoke to me more of his need for 'gotcha' payback than it did of Ms. Lentz.

Press Talk has declined, in my view, over the last few months because his ego is getting in the way of his good judgment. Does Lou B deserve to be ridiculed and humiliated for it? No. Should he be able to take respectful feedback? Yep. It goes with the public job he chose. He has not hidden from the cameras, either. He seemed to revel in the attention during the Storro story. Sometimes the attention is not positive. That is the risk he takes. I am sure he can take it.

Look, he dishes it out regularly, roger. When he plays the victim, I am not convinced. He is hard as nails on others.
_______________________________

My best wishes for your wife's recovery from cancer, roger. I wish her health and healing.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-...what has made you back off your panic mode? Some good news would be welcomed now.

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Available while they last! You can purchase a 'Restoring Courage' collector's coin from Glenn Beck's website for only...$150.00!!! Guaranteed 99.9% pure silver!

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Oh, well. How fleeting emotions can be.....

I heard a great interview of Barbara Boxer, who was not happy with the Deal, but put a spin on it that could bode well for those who are particularly needy. Medicaid is untouched, for example. Or so she says.

Then I watched Barney Frank on Lawrence O'Donnell, who looked tired and haggard, and defintely angry. Both these guys were scathing.

It just cannot be predicted what will happen, but, it does seem like this: if you have money and do not rely on the government for essential services, you will be fine.

That seems to be the only given upon which most agree.

So, I'm watching, listening, and taking notes. And definitely trying to keep my ups and downs more mid-range because I can't take the uncertainty and drama. So I focus on what is working now, what I can control.

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Thanks for the compliment and best wishes.

OK - I just recovered from my brain cramp - you've mentioned the Press Talk post before, but it just registered. I went back and read what Ms. Lentz wrote. I left with 3 thoughts.
1) Maybe it's familiarity, but I think our own Goldie does a better job of calling Lou on the carpet. She's less dramatic and gets to the point.
2) I've often wondered why Liz Hovde left The Columbian. I could see some real talent in her writing, but the articles were usually filler stuff. Might she be one of the few talented writers Ms. Lentz was talking about?
3) Lou's latest article may be intended as a response to Ms. Lentz, but so what? She's pretty much a nonentity to most people. But the more important outcome is that he resurrects and gives credence to the position that Mayor Leavitt lied to get elected.

So, because of point 3) I'm for "giving" Lou a pass on this one. I'm not sure what's going on, but I can't buy that he isn't sharp enough not to have realized this interpretation would be made when he reread what he wrote.

Gee - I jumped on Forethought this morning because I thought his post was a bit of hit and run agitating. Is it possible this is all related? And that Lou is doing a little payback?

And I suppose I'm saying enough that Matt will have to caution me. Oh well.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whatever in the world could make poor working people think this Tea Party stuff is going to do them good? Really. I don't get it.

Will they find a way to blame someone else when they start really feeling the pain? Or will they realize they helped creat this monster?

manthou — August 1, 2011 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Which leads me to the kn_dalai attack on hawkeye yesterday.
>
> roger — August 1, 2011 at 7:31 p.m.

And just what attach was that? Jerk.

And since I addressed my comments to mr_basil_seal; how come you're defending badeye, who stuck his nose where it diid'nt belong. Jerk.

In no way, shape, or form, are you a moderate, jerk, You can fool others, but when you start talking about Noam Chomsky, and Libertarian Socialism: You have given yourself away.

Have I been rude? Yep.

Are you and your's disinguous?

You better believe it.

kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My brother-in-law told me that earlier today he heard someone on TV say one of the provisions of the agreement was a 1% home mortgage tax. I've been watching news programs and searching the internet, but can't find anything except no new taxes.

Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

roger — August 1, 2011 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai,

Thanks for your response - it answered my earlier questions.

roger — August 1, 2011 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just looking for a bright spot in all this manthou. This president, with the backing of many Dems, seems to have once again screwed the people that put him/them into office. Once again he has broken his promise of a balanced approach, thinking he can score more political points in being "pragmatic". Instead of having a national conversation on these issues, once again a back room deal. I will not support him in 2012. Better to have four years of Republican rule... then elect a quality Democrat/Progressive into office. If we have any of our country left. Paul Krugman summed it up pretty well in the Times this morning what this policy will do to us. In my humble opinion. Jobs are not at the fore front with this president. Nor are the needs of the average citizen. He bought into this manufactured crisis too easily. Either he has an agenda that contradicts the very ideals and principles he ran on...or he's not really engaged. Either way I see it as not acceptable..beyond the pale governing. This "special" congress....my friend....this is scary stuff.

The center line no longer exists and President Obama is the reason why. He's too smart for this......

At least with Bush everyone knew he lacked some very basic comprehension skills and you knew what to expect and who was pulling his strings.

Obama is most likely the smartest person in the room 99% of the time..............................

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 9:29 p.m

Hey bub, you seem a little stressed. Is it because your best buddy bobbo is no longer on the C? That is the reason, isn't it? And what's with the name calling, calling me "badeye" and roger, "jerk". Now that's just mean.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Badeye...tell eveyone how you're a moderate.

People like you do not even understand the basis of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, Hence: total idiots who think that collective bargaining is a :"fundemental right."

These people are total idiots.

Are you one of them?

Yep. Probably. Prove me wrong badeye,

kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 10:07 p.m

If you want to come here and discuss something rationally, maybe.

You want to come here and pick a fight? I don't think so.

You want to come here and call people names, grow up.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou;

I hear so much about blaming.. Most everyone on here wants to blame bush for all the ills we currently have..I agree he didn't help the current situation but it has been 3 years and Obama is still blaming Bush... Leaders lead the tough fight and take the blame for all that goes with it, they put it on there shoulders and off those who cannot take the heat or feel the pain.. Thats what leaders do... But a friend of mine sent me this today..He has a print shop in town and hd this in a pile of Obama quotes he saved...it's from 2006..I didn't vote for him in 2008 because he didn't answer any questions asked of him, he still doesn't and he hasn't basically done anything he promised either... Change.. many people beleived he could get it done.. Then he found out how difficult ramming ones agenda and telling other people his thinking and plans are better..I hope Rick Perry puts his hat in, Now he has done something about JOBS in his state and he has experience that is lacking from our current administration...

It's amazing how some people forget what they said yesterday, and scapegoat and others to enhanse their own agenda.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead,
Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Senator Barack H. Obama, Floor speech 2006

rtsidethinker — August 1, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


~From time to time there are going to be things that occur that are acts of God that cannot be prevented~ Texas Gov. Rick Perry on the BP oil spill. May 03 2010

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


After 10 years as Gov Rick Perry"s TEXAS rates #6 in the nation's Poverty level. He could just be the guy Republicans will get behind. Plus he's reputed to be less than bright and ties religion and politics on one shoe! Bush P.2!!!

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A big oil guy who pleaded for and sucked 6.6 Billion dollars from the stimulus package and then criticizes Obama for his "job killing stimulus bill" is running a 27 Billion dollar deficit in Texas.

nailingit — August 1, 2011 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit,

I didn't say he was the second coming but he has generated more jobs than any other state during good times and bad
2001-April 2011-12.5%..
I think thats pretty good. Those Poverty levels are skewed a bit by the huge Hispanic population..
Texas has more Hispanics at the poverty level than we have almost people that live in our state.. 2.2 mil at the poverty level from 2003-2006.. Thy also have 3 of the top ten largest cities in US and 2nd largets populated state in the country..The Hispanic movement has contributed greatly to these numbers.. Not trying to defend just give some facts..

rtsidethinker — August 1, 2011 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An interesting LTE was posted this A.M. Someone wants No Child Left Behind reevaluated. The writer made some valid points, but lost my unqualified "dead right" with her comment that too much time is spent on reading and math to the detriment of other areas, such as geography. To me, the 3 R's were the foundation of my education that everything else built off of.

Take this as elitist or whatever, but to me the real issue is the belief that every child is capable of learning AND that we must nurture this. This has led to teaching to the LCD and losing the brightest kids. The old ways were best. We need to get back to the tiered approach, separate by learning ability and other factors that enhance or detract from the classroom environment, and teach REAL subjects that'll build toward adults who can function/compete in the real world.

roger — August 2, 2011 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker: There is plenty of blame to go around, I agree with you. I am just trying to make sense of this phenomenon. The country has not seen anything like it. I suppose it is better than civil war, but............

I am at a loss to understand why hard working and low income folk vote for politicians who protect the wealthiest among us when it comes to tax breaks, why they vote for politicians who are ready to cut social security and medicaire when those voters don't have two nickels to rub together in terms of retirement funds. Most do and will rely on those threatened government checks as a sole source of income in their final years on earth.

Is it ideology and nothing more? Do they look behind that and into the future before they vote?

Simple, hardworking people got behind the Tea Party, bless them. They are used for their votes and now face devastating cuts which will surely impact their quality of life.

Do we all want to go through this **sturm and drang** (there's another German concept for you, basil) every so often? I don't.

I am one of the leftsidethinking voters who will not have to rely on government programs in my old age to make ends meet. Tea Party Republicans have protected my wealth, while sacrificing their own safety nets. Do they understand this?

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — August 1, 2011 at 10:17 p.m.

It is a bit hard to hang all of your screed on one speech; we progressive / liberals have so much more from the various members of your sect to toss back.

Or, we could just point out the facts that show the lack of substance, even to the point of making things up, that compose the rw talking points;

Start here, 2009

America’s Sea of Red Ink Was Years in the Making

By DAVID LEONHARDT
Published: June 9, 2009

The first is that President Obama’s agenda, ambitious as it may be, is responsible for only a sliver of the deficits, despite what many of his Republican critics are saying. The second is that Mr. Obama does not have a realistic plan for eliminating the deficit, despite what his advisers have suggested.

The New York Times analyzed Congressional Budget Office reports going back almost a decade, with the aim of understanding how the federal government came to be far deeper in debt than it has been since the years just after World War II. This debt will constrain the country’s choices for years and could end up doing serious economic damage if foreign lenders become unwilling to finance it.

Mr. Obama — responding to recent signs of skittishness among those lenders — met with 40 members of Congress at the White House on Tuesday and called for the re-enactment of pay-as-you-go rules, requiring Congress to pay for any new programs it passes.

The story of today’s deficits starts in January 2001, as President Bill Clinton was leaving office. The Congressional Budget Office estimated then that the government would run an average annual surplus of more than $800 billion a year from 2009 to 2012. Today, the government is expected to run a $1.2 trillion annual deficit in those years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Good morning!

Tracking students by ability level is antithetical to your premise that "all are capable of learning." Tracking by ability, as was done in our day, assumes that all students are NOT capable of learning. Those relegated to the "bonehead" section did not get many challenges.

Here's the thing in education: we are mandated to use evidence-based best practices in teaching children. That changes with increased experience, knowledge and research. Tracking was abandoned for good reason.

What works? Look here: http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Then,

How the Deficit Got This Big
By TERESA TRITCH

With President Obama and Republican leaders calling for cutting the budget by trillions over the next 10 years, it is worth asking how we got here — from healthy surpluses at the end of the Clinton era, and the promise of future surpluses, to nine straight years of deficits, including the $1.3 trillion shortfall in 2010. The answer is largely the Bush-era tax cuts, war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, and recessions.

Despite what antigovernment conservatives say, non-
defense discretionary spending on areas like foreign aid, education and food safety was not a driving factor in creating the deficits. In fact, such spending, accounting for only 15 percent of the budget, has been basically flat as a share of the economy for decades. Cutting it simply will not fill the deficit hole.

The first graph shows the difference between budget projections and budget reality. In 2001, President George W. Bush inherited a surplus, with projections by the Congressional Budget Office for ever-increasing surpluses, assuming continuation of the good economy and President Bill Clinton’s policies. But every year starting in 2002, the budget fell into deficit. In January 2009, just before President Obama took office, the budget office projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2009 and deficits in subsequent years, based on continuing Mr. Bush’s policies and the effects of recession. Mr. Obama’s policies in 2009 and 2010, including the stimulus package, added to the deficits in those years but are largely temporary.

The second graph shows that under Mr. Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009. Budget estimates that didn’t foresee the recessions in 2001 and in 2008 and 2009 also contributed to deficits. Mr. Obama’s policies, taken out to 2017, add to deficits, but not by nearly as much.

A few lessons can be drawn from the numbers. First, the Bush tax cuts have had a huge damaging effect. If all of them expired as scheduled at the end of 2012, future deficits would be cut by about half, to sustainable levels. Second, a healthy budget requires a healthy economy; recessions wreak havoc by reducing tax revenue. Government has to spur demand and create jobs in a deep downturn, even though doing so worsens the deficit in the short run. Third, spending cuts alone will not close the gap. The chronic revenue shortfalls from serial tax cuts are simply too deep to fill with spending cuts alone. Taxes have to go up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24sun4.html

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, do you have anything factual that supports your claims?

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat: How right you are, I fear. :( No one is safe.
These are truly uncharted waters, stirred up by reactive politics.

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"What is happening in Washington is nothing less than a culture war. On President Obama's side are supporters of a national concept, like one known in Europe, namely that the state should take care of a certain amount of social equalizing, and if necessary, intervene with regulations. For his opposition, even Obama's idea of expanding health insurance coverage equals the birth of communist totalitarianism."

"Anyone who raises taxes or increases the debt ceiling, and therefore unleashes the Leviathan of 'big government,' is, according to their logic, threatening the highest ideal that the American revolutionaries fought for: freedom. Those who do it will be pursued by these self-named patriots with virtually pathological hatred, even when the infrastructure or social benefits would profit from their undertakings. Illogical? Patriotism is possibly the only thing that many uncertain American citizens have left. The crisis has not only cost them their jobs; it has also threatened their country's hegemony. And a solution for none of these problems seems apparent."

mangoboy — August 2, 2011 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 2, 2011 at 6:24 a.m.

*belief that every child is capable of learning*

Way over simplified. The NCLB mantra wasn't looking at the research and was trying to make some political points by that oversimplification. There was also some faux-populism that was basically similar to the teabagger frontgroup / $$ behind going on.

Everybody learns, heck, you can take a worm and split its brain and teach one half....

But, at some level there are vast differences in ability and capability. And, and this is a real sticking point, there are significant differences in brain maturity and chrono age.

There is also the issue of learning style - Multiple choice and essay test results, for example.

*AND that we must nurture this.*

And unfortunately the school system we have now doesn't.

*This has led to teaching to the LCD and losing the brightest kids.*

Part of that was the political aspects of NCLB. It was set up so that showing significant progress at the lower levels rewarded schools.

*The old ways were best.*

Depending on how old you want to go; before WW1 the majority of kids didn't get past Jr. Hi. (Remember, that was when IQ testing for army conscription started).

*We need to get back to the tiered approach, separate by learning ability*

I'd suggest you go talk with somebody at a district level; The levels of assistance has several tiers for those not 'average' on both ends of the bell curve

*and other factors that enhance or detract from the classroom environment, and teach REAL subjects that'll build toward adults who can function/compete in the real world.*

I guess I need to see specifics on what is considered "REAL subjects ". Remember there was a period when business classes at college level were considered the be all and end all. Humans are too varied to not be able to accept the fact that a creative writing course isn't as important as calculus. Or as the calc teacher once told me, ' most of my kids' parents can't help with the homework, and they are wearing suits when we talk about it.'

(

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy: Excellent post. It is in quotes. Who said or wrote it? I would love to know. :)

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Found it: mangoboy's quote at 7:10 am is from a newspaper called **Die Tageszeitung**. Scroll down the article to find it:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,777961,00.html

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 2, 2011 at 7:33 a.m

Also take a look at:

World Tells Us What It Really Thinks About Our 'Absurd' Debt Crisis.

http://www.theatlanticwire​.com/global/2011/07/world-​tells-us-what-it-really-th​inks-about-our-absurd-debt​-crisis/40622/

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for tracking that down manthou- I intended to include it but could not spell it correctly...

They use the term "culture war" and it has got me wondering how that differs from, or is similar to ideological conflict.

Power belongs to whoever can tap into the deepest sentiments of the people and manipulate it. The Republicans have a pretty strong appeal to the majority by pointing out that capitalism signs their paycheck, and Government asks for a check. That makes it all very simple and easy to understand.

mangoboy — August 2, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil and mangoboy: Very interesting how the world media interprets our current national strife. Fascinating and informative.

Patriotism to the point of bringing the country and world markets crashing down? Is that necessary? Is that what they really want?

Time to resurrect the landed immigrant documents my family once had in Canada, take the money and run. I am only half joking.

manthou — August 2, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think it is much deeper than Patriotism. Its a kind of tribal loyalty and the fear of starvation which might happen if the neighboring tribes proposal to share hunting grounds in common is accepted. The debt? The fear of hunting out and depleting hunting grounds.

mangoboy — August 2, 2011 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We had some conversation yesterday about the strawberry-picking article.

One piece that goldenoldie noted was the pesticide article.

Here's a bit about efforts to make those jobs more humane,

"Industry representatives say hotels are already taking good care of employee health and safety, so there's no need for a law. Of course, they also claim the bill is a "job killer" — the favorite label business lobbyists use to frighten politicians and the public from supporting laws that protect workers, consumers and the environment.

Haven't we heard similar warnings before?

Forty years ago, California's farmworkers were forced to stoop eight to 12 hours per day with short-handled hoes tending to lettuce and other crops. After only a few years in the fields, most workers suffered from chronic and debilitating back injuries.

In 1972, the nonprofit California Rural Legal Assistance petitioned the Industrial Safety Board of the state Division of Industrial Safety (since replaced by the Cal-OSHA standards board) to prohibit the use of el cortito, as the short hoe was known in the fields. The California Rural Legal Assistance argued that farmworkers should be allowed to use a long-handled hoe to reduce back injuries.

The growers predicted economic disaster. Lettuce growers were among the loudest opponents. Hector de la Vega, a lettuce grower from Calexico, testified in 1973 to the Industrial Safety Board that California would "absolutely do away with the industry if the short-handled hoe was outlawed." Another lettuce grower, Tom Merrill of Salinas, testified to the board in 1975 that the ban would result in reduced production, which would lead to a "total loss of food crops of monumental proportions." Attorneys for Salinas-based Bud Antle Inc., the largest lettuce grower in the world at the time, argued that banning the short-handled hoe would be disastrous, leading to fewer crops and higher prices."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-cohen-maids-20110802,0,7847167.story

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 2, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.

I was listening to LeShow last night.

He pointed out that:

1- our 'reduced rating' would be from the same people who claimed that the mortgage bundling securities, which basically were a main cause of the housing ind. and our economy crash, were AAA grade. We would be downgraded from AAA to AA.....

2- That that 'reduced rating' would cause interest rates to to up. And when the CC companies raised rates to usurious amounts, CC usage didn't stop, when inflation hit back in the 70's peopble still bough houses at ~20%

http://harryshearer.com/news/le_show/

Yeah, probably not a highly qualified pundit, but often has a good perspective.

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A nation adrift, unable to pay its debts, now and forever

By Lindsay Curren

The implications of defaulting on the federal debt are certainly not negligible. Far from it. It really will matter to millions of Americans if social security or unemployment checks fail to go out on August 3.
Regardless, the one thing we do know is that continuing to prop up America’s current system of endless spending through ever-escalating debt is untenable. That’s the one part of the debt debate that the GOP gets right, even if they present it disingenuously. But that doesn’t make default the better option in the short run.
This is made even more clear when we connect the dots between energy and economy.
It’s about energy, not the economy

For roughly a century, cheap, readily available fossil fuels have been the key driver of the industrial economy worldwide. In the US, if we hadn’t had the early twentieth century oil boom, we wouldn’t have built the standard of living, public services and private wealth that we currently enjoy. After domestic peak oil hit in 1970 and we became a net energy importer, the US continued to feed our expansion with the light sweet crude of Saudi Arabia and other exporters.
It’s been a stupendous run of living the high life, tarnished only by a few wars of choice and a massive cannibalization of the planet and indigenous peoples at the same time. And of course, that empty feeling inside from buying more stuff and expecting it to make you happy.
But the entire run has been predicated on using the same driver of economy to fuel (fund) future promises to pay. Yes, it allowed for a too liberal growth in the size of government (by liberals and even more so by conservatives in the last decade), but that’s only part of the story.

http://transitionvoice.com/2011/07/a-nation-adrift-unable-to-pay-its-debts-now-and-forever/

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 2, 2011 at 9:13 a.m

Neither did "patriotism"

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mangoboy,

Wow what did you have for breakfast..You are on fire this morning.. I'm not so equiped to bring words to the paper with such meaning and accuracy..Good job....
Your 7:10am comments are pretty much accurate...

rtsidethinker — August 2, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat...breathe in....think happy thoughts....breathe out...

repeat

Now set your mind to a day trip away from the city, into the mountains, to the coast and realize life goes on beyond politics, my friend.

It's going to be okay. Maybe a little rough for a lot of us...but it'll be okay.

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You know...I was reading the article this morning about the cougar sighted by the Veteran's Medical Facility on Fourth Plain and thought..."That cougar doesn't have a care in the world." It managed to travel through a very busy city and find a place to sleep which was quite comfortable...and it looked like it has been eating quite well, too. Funny how it wasn't even alarmed by the Fish and Wildlife officer or his hound dog. The government stepped in and moved the cat to an area it has never lived and now it must fend for it's life or face imminent threat of bodily harm or death by another cougar. The cougar must rely on it's stamina and whatever training it's mother provided as it grew to two years old...sort of a self preservation mode as one might say in order for it to continue to survive. No help from it's mother, the wildlife officer...just by itself. The cougar must rely on her instincts to be a success in life.

A rather important life lesson, wouldn't you say???

Take charge of yourselves and make the best of each and every day we are here. Although the government's actions throw everyone into fear or apprehension, our own instincts will help us to continue to thrive.

It will be okay.

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, I have never looked forward to the prospect of relying on Social Security or Medicare. That is why my husband and I have worked as a team to pay off our debts and save for our retirement. It's called "Retirement Planning." We didn't keep up with the Joneses...not one least bit. We have always lived within our means and cut out extravagant purchases. In our 32 years of marriage, we purchased one new car.

As long as we have garden space, we will never go hungry with the knowledge I have gained over the years. Groceries like coffee, soda, spirits and the finer cuts of meat will be the new "extravagant" purchases as they are already beginning to be.

You see Alleycat, no matter what happens in DC...we as individuals don't have a lot we can do about the situation. Yeah, we can protest till we turn blue, send emails, letters of concern and phone calls to a recording...but life goes on and we each have to make the best of what we have rather than complaining about what we don't have.

And that "stale piece of bread and watery soup???" Not in my home or my neighbors' homes. We'd begin with stone soup, first of all. You ever hear the story about stone soup, Alley??? Well sir...thanks to Wikipedia, here's a general description of the story:

*Some travelers come to a village, carrying nothing more than an empty cooking pot. Upon their arrival, the villagers are unwilling to share any of their food stores with the hungry travelers. The travelers fill the pot with water, drop a large stone in it, and place it over a fire in the village square. One of the villagers becomes curious and asks what they are doing. The travelers answer that they are making "stone soup", which tastes wonderful, although it still needs a little bit of garnish to improve the flavor, which they are missing. The villager does not mind parting with just a little bit of carrot to help them out, so it gets added to the soup. Another villager walks by, inquiring about the pot, and the travelers again mention their stone soup which has not reached its full potential yet. The villager hands them a little bit of seasoning to help them out. More and more villagers walk by, each adding another ingredient. Finally, a delicious and nourishing pot of soup is enjoyed by all.*

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie
As long as we have garden space, we will never go hungry with the knowledge I have gained over the years. Groceries like coffee, soda, spirits and the finer cuts of meat will be the new "extravagant" purchases as they are already beginning to be.

Not sure where you (and others here) are on producing your own food, but you might like to look at Kurt Timmermeister's Growing a Farmer. 12 acres, only buys 4 items from the grocery store. Started knowing, well basically, nothing other than how to cook and now his farmhouse is a restaurant. Cows, pigs, sheep, veg, veg, veg.

http://www.kurtwoodfarms.com/kurtwoodfarms/Journal/Entries/2011/1/21_Growing_a_Farmer.html

mr_basil_seal — August 2, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am SO sick of hearing the word..."entitlement"
When are the elected critters and people going to understand that SS and medicare are NOT entitlements? Well maybe they are to those who receive them and have never paid a dime into them off the backs of those who have.
You worked, you paid YOUR money and your employer towards SS and medicare, it IS YOUR MONEY! It is NOT an entitlement!

ELISI — August 2, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You tell 'em ELISI!

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat - I doubt very much that the President is your "homie". I think that you should make a concerted effort to detach from this before you bust something important.

PadmaRani — August 2, 2011 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- We are entitled to these programs because we HAVE invested in them. Entitlement is not a dirty word. It doesn't mean getting something for free. It means what it says. We are entitled to some of these programs.

A "sense of entitlement" often is often used in a negative/misleading way. such as "Entitlements like social security and medicare are murdering our finances" a section in Glenn Beck's book called "Broke".

Self-reliance is a major theme with Beck...too bad he relies on duping others to measure his own success.

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yep. Some are refusing to see this. People...quit blurring the lies of responsibility

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 2, 2011 at 11:34 a.m

I'd sure like to see you try to do his job.

It sure is easy from the sidelines, ain't it bub?

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""-Make no taxable income

-Move if you can to a very low taxation district

-Be self-sufficient

-Develop your own survival network

-Keep an eye on the thieves"""
.

"""Yes indeed, grow your own as much as you can and can the hell out of it."""
.

"""So, unless you gain control of your destiny, your money, it is up to others to decide what you get if you get anything at all no matter how hard you work at it."""
.

"""I recommend everybody in Vancouver to come and live life, mingle with all of us undesirables and take a different look at life."""
.

"""Anyway, please do not be over confident about your economic situation. Stop spending and start covering all the bases for survival."""
.

"""I am not rich. I am middle class and live within my means. I have some toys but my life is simple. I am a simple man...
.

"""I invest in my health in order to minimize my need on healthcare expenses. I am a responsible citizen. I eat nutritiously and I exercise daily."""
.

"""I look at my flowers and veggies growing day after day not knowing what we are facing, not having to worry as we do about the future, they just glide through the cycle of life while we make every effort to ruin our lives with negativism and selfishness..""

Do these sound familiar, Alleycat??? You said them yourself, my friend. Now...am I really full of crappola as you had quoted at 10:49??? BTW, my stone soup??? Is half full, not half empty. What do you have to offer?

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at noon ( | suggest removal


Basil, you can have a few potted vegetables, even a small fruit tree but if you work together hand in hand with your friends, your relatives and your neighbors... everyone can manage to produce a cooperative effort to ensure that stone soup will have more than just a stone. Also, there are many community gardens sprouting everywhere AND I believe there's a group of gleaners who will come to your home and take the extra produce you will not use in order to donate to charitable organizations. And Basil, you know many of us are educated in forest harvest and take advantage of wild harvest, along with keeping our eyes open for great blackberry crops, nut and fruit trees in public areas which are easily accessible. Anybody who has experienced huckleberry pie can harvest the berries themselves. All they have to do is ask their friends, their neighbors...US Forest Service...

And Basil, thank you for the link. I'll be going back to it as soon as I am done here with my post.

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Speaking of Entitlements,
One should read Micheal Hudsons "Under Cover Of Crisis" Obamas ambush on Entitlements... Here is his link.. Lots of interesting reading while your sitting in the backyard this evening with temps hovering around 80-85..

http://michael-hudson.com/

rtsidethinker — August 2, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


....careful alley..if you're doing something stronger than coffee it can steal your soul bro!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...all in jest alleycat. Not trying to discredit a possible/fellow candidate. I suppose that abortion item for beginners might need a little tweaking!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL I agree...we need fundamental change. And I'm not talking this super congress crap. America is slipping away because of the hard right and the ineptitude of a president not confronting it.

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


lol! We are pretty diverse here allen. Just the way it should be! May the lord bless each and every one of you!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I like the good way to get soldiers idea! Hitler+Terminator+Re-Animator+$$$!!!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wait a minute...we already have the tea party!!! LOL

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've known a few people that would make a hard core Beck follower change their mind on the subject! Make tea partyers examples of a society gone wrong, and offer free tube tying! Our avatarian world would need the backing of a leading female avatar concerning this to push the idea over the top!?!??

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat @12:53 pm:

Care to show me where I said anything to do with saying that I support the idea that the new crooks can steal or shorten a benefit we already paid for all our lives???

Funny...I don't remember saying anything to that matter. What I was implying was the FACT that we all need to lessen our dependence on the government, Alley and THAT'S why I pointed out your well-versed comments, sir. I didn't say anything to do with supporting the government taking a hard hit on the hard working folks losing out on their rights to SSI or Medicare. My point was OBVIOUS that I was stating to SUPPLEMENT SSI with retirement planning. That way, SHOULD the government take it upon themselves to screw over everyone deserved of collecting SSI, the people would have something to fall back on. Don't be confusing my statements with those made by others which supports your errant claim against me, Alley.

Oh...and by the way Alley...those jogging trips you're taking around Portland??? Yes, you might be doing good by exercising your heart but at the same time, you are taking in all the crap that's in the air as well. So much for healthy lungs, eh! You should try trail running in the High Cascades...ABOVE the smog level you can clearly see hovering over Vancouver and Portland. Now THAT's better for you.

Sheesh!!!

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Stopped in to read the comments before posting and I couldn't help but note the sadistic minds of two distinct posters in the basement. Definitely, I would not choose to live under YOUR rule if either one of you ever tried to run for politics. Who knows...maybe one of you have already and lost the position in the last election at the local level.

Needless to say, the sadistic minds of you two are enough to make me want to hurl...even if you are joking. Till next time...

I'm going on vacation and I am outta here!!! YEAAAAAAA HOOOOOOOO!!!!!

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I haven't noticed any sadism. Just some mean spirited vindictiveness by one individual poster. As usual. Sadism and vomiting goldenoldie, not very cool about good natured humor...and by the way, as alleycat said..name the culprits when you do one of your name calling uncivil drive-by's! LOL! YEAHOOOOO! LOL!!!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 2, 2011 at 3:11 p.m.

If you want your money to make guaranteed returns, put it in the bank. The whole point of investing is the higher the risk the higher the potential returns.

frobert — August 2, 2011 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My my my...I check in before heading out and I find the two culprits I spoke of...on the defensive end. Well Alley and Nail...thanks for the laughs!!! Somebody had to keep you hoppin' and it might as well have been me!!! You guys made it waaaaay too easy! Maybe the two of you need a vacation as well!

Keep smilin' and....

Adios!!!

8>P

goldenoldie — August 2, 2011 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...more "wildfire" writing...LOL!

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have to say you guys here on the dark side are a lot more fun and interesting to read than the FB side.Also there are a lot more comments.Keep up the good work.

terick — August 2, 2011 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...especially the cat! lol

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 2, 2011 at 5:08 p.m.

So we should drain the treasury and go into debt so corporations can avoid free market consequences for their failures? We already did that with the Bush-Obama bailout and that didn't work out well for the working class.

frobert — August 2, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, calling you a jerk last night was uncalled for. That was wrong and I apologize. You come across as a thoughtful poster.

On another note, you may be interested in what Ayn Rand had to say about Libertarians:

> AR: I don’t think plagiarists are effective. I’ve read nothing by a Libertarian (when I read them, in the early years) that wasn’t my ideas badly mishandled—i.e., had the teeth pulled out of them—with no credit given. I didn’t know whether I should be glad that no credit was given, or disgusted. I felt both. They are perhaps the worst political group today, because they can do the most harm to capitalism, by making it disreputable.
>

And:

> AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

And others.

[http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians][1]

As far as boblarimer goes, some of you have jumped on him from the very beginnng like a pack of wolves, and have made your own disparaging comments. Imo uncalled for. I trust the Columbian booted him for valid reasons and not out of biasness.

[1]: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians

kn_dalai — August 2, 2011 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I signed in just to answer kn-dalai about Larimer but Alley, you beat me to it and I could not have said it better.
Kn: he got booted on the other side for valid reasons just like he got booted here for VERY valid reasons last year. We talk about him the way we do for EXTREMELY valid reasons. He insulted me also here last year. The C is a better place without his comments - good grief, as often as he commented on everything, people might believe Clark County thinks like him!

He is offensive, brooks no dissension, and manages to pretty much tick off everybody but one or two people. He is also not really smart (and I am so nice right now, right guys?)

luvithere — August 2, 2011 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Congress screws us and takes 5 weeks off???

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


takes a lot of energy to screw that many people, Nail

luvithere — August 2, 2011 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 2, 2011 at 7:02 p.m

I think that's pretty much exactly what having the government guarantee investments would be.

frobert — August 2, 2011 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai @ 6:17- A thoughtful post. It's not too often one reads a sincere apology in the basement or anywhere else for that matter.

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Funny, he didn't apologize to me.

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The following are 10 facts about the financial condition of American families that will blow your mind.....

#1 Only 58 percent of Americans have a job right now.

#2 Only 56 percent of Americans are currently covered by employer-provided health insurance.

#3 The median yearly wage in the United States is $26,261.

#4 The average American household is carrying $75,600 in debt.

#5 Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.

#6 At this point, American families are approximately 7.7 trillion dollars poorer than they were back in early 2007.

#7 The poorest 50% of all Americans now own just 2.5% of all the wealth in the United States.

#8 According to one study, approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States were living below the poverty line in 2010.

#9 Today, there are more than 44 million Americans on food stamps, and nearly half of them are children.

#10 According to Newsweek, close to 20 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 54 do not have a job at the moment.

(economic collapse blog)

mangoboy — August 2, 2011 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Audi, BMW, and Mercedes executives are all claiming to be on record pace through January, with some brands sales figures up almost 25% from last year. A significant portion of this growth is occurring overseas, but automakers have been trying for years to expand into new markets and their growth strategies are finally starting to bear some fruit. Affluent customers in China are a significant reason for the increased sales, and automakers expect growth in that part of the world to continue to increase.

(Imagine Lifestyles)

mangoboy — August 2, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


............

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

I first came on here two and a half years ago as KNDali2012, a candidate for President of the United Federation of Planets. A spoof of the old Kendallin2010, who claimed to be running for Congress. I changed to kn_dalai on 6/1/2011 when the Columbian changed to their new comments format. Because I felt like it.

I have never been anyone else. Nor have I ever been booted. You, on the other hand, without question, without question,were phoenixrising and then bustin_da_meek. Or some such thing. You were booted off those two times for your outrageous conduct. I don’t know about possible others. I image you were also columbiancensures. Your off-the-wall and usually very bizzare statements, and your biker thing, and your "independent lifestyle" and your writing style, in all of the above, make it obvious, that you have been all of the above. You are really quite a strange bird. I think the phychologists refer to your mind problem as…projection. Chief. I will say that I noticed a rather impressive transformation recently, in which you seemed to be rather more thoughtful, and less nutty, but you have shattered that new persona today.

You got booted off the first time, that I know of, after your threatening statements to Hawkeye, about using a gun.

Yep.

BTW. Your posts of 12:42 p.m. and 12:43 p.m. make your totalitarian paradigm ever so clear. You are a walking contradiction bud.

The initial idea of government, in this country, was that of the Libertarianism of the Enlightenment.

Very different from the FDR New Deal Socialism of the 30’s and beyond, which has come to be called Liberalism.

kn_dalai — August 2, 2011 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal



luvithere — August 2, 2011 at 7:12 p.m.

Examples?

kn_dalai — August 2, 2011 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal



I find it interesting that in 10 days it will T-minus 150 years since the inception of the Federation. As well as a 150 T-plus years serving a well informed Alpha-Quadrant. If it wasn't for fresh input Delta 77 would have much more to deal with than 'sand storms'. Sometimes we forget the sacrifices of the Rakktorians, we prosper greatly.

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Stardate 2161 will forever be...remembered as we...a people...accepted the Vulcans, Andorians and others, in order to embrace a coalition and venture where no man has gone before.....

nailingit — August 2, 2011 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Funny, he didn't apologize to me. - hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 7:58 p.m.

What? What is wrong with people like you? Why would I ever apologize to one such as yourself?

Good Gawd Man, what is wrong with you?

kn_dalai — August 2, 2011 at 11:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just thought I'd give you the opportunity.

Seriously, you're just jealous because the voices aren't talking to you. Too bad, so sad.

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — August 2, 2011 at 11:13 p.m

I just thought that judging by what you wrote to Roger that you were back on your meds but I see that they have worn off by now. You really need to talk to your doctor and see if he can adjust your dosage a little.

Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

hawkeye — August 2, 2011 at 11:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, no one can call us boring!!

Thanks, kn_d. I enjoy reading your posts when you slow down - you've obviously taken the time to educate yourself over however many years you've been around.

Lou's column this week has gotten VERY interesting. Mayor Tim has found it necessary to come on and defend himself. In the process he pretty much calls everyone who opposes the CRC project in it's currently proposed version uninformed obstructionists.

From his response, I don't think Lou is buying it. I know I don't. There is no way he "learned" something about the need for tolling after being elected Mayor that he didn't know from his previous years on City Council, C-Tran board, and a CRC committee or two.

But, once again, allow me to point out that Editor Lou hasn't rubbed Mayor Tim's nose in the doggie doo he's leaving all over the place. A rather gentlemanly response. Now, if he would just get off his facebook kick....

roger — August 3, 2011 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat,

Did I hear you mention a trip to St Helens today?

Do me a favor...I am wondering if an extension of the road would make sense to connect more directly to Mt Rainier Nat'l Park and other Cascade Mountain destinations, instead of having to back track, adding many additional miles and time to the trip. Take a look and evaluate it.

It has been mentioned many times but I believe the official reason against it is any new road would have to cross fragile volcano recovery zones.

I think it would also be a real boost for tourism in the state.

mangoboy — August 3, 2011 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 3, 2011 at 6:19 a.m

I read all the posts in response to Lou's article and Tim did write a good one.

The thing I really hate about the FB side is that it's almost impossible to find a timeline. There are times at the bottom of the posts but some tell time and date and others say "15 hours ago" but they are all out of order so it's hard to tell who wrote first. Quite frustrating.

hawkeye — August 3, 2011 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — August 3, 2011 at 6:45 a.m

I was just there at Johnston Ridge last Saturday.
I think the reason why they don't have the extension of the road is due to having to shut the road down during winter. Weather does get quite wicked there in the winter.
Easier to maintain and control in case there is another eruption.
The recovery areas still have many more years to go. They have planted trees, ground shrubs, and wild flowers that have flourished so far. It's an amazing sight to see how much has recovered in these 30+ years. The ash flow is in my estimate is still 100ft or more at the base. You can clearly see in the areas where the creek beds are trying to recover the differences in color. Almost milky grey from the ash. At the visitors center we stopped at on the way up over looks the river..due to the ash flow it was a dry bed..with plants and trees starting grow and we happened to see a bear wondering in the bed using the telescope.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Kn. I am a bit late answering.
I will not give examples of Larimer's rants. Nuff about him. But I do have to say that I always enjoyed your candidacy for prez of the Federation. It was always humorous and sure as heck beat the old speedsheets by our resident political wannabe (whatever happened to him I wonder?) So I have to defend you here, not sure why people are now on your case so much. What I miss? We usually voice our opinions quite clearly here and you are just as welcome as the rest. Except nobody will ever defend Bobbo. He is beyond that.

luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 10:33 a.m

*Except nobody will ever defend Bobbo.*

Luvithere, I see it as he has every right to the same freedom of speech as you and I do. You and I.. everyone else also have the freedom NOT to read what he posts.
As far as rants go, there are others that go off on rants that I find just as offensive as Bob Larimers, they are just opposite. I choose my right to not read them.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi, he might have to right to free speech, I am not denying that. All I said is that I do not think anybody will defend him, meaning his opinions and the way he talks. Quite different from saying he has no right to say it. Yes, you can always not read it. But he has personally insulted me before, and I draw the line there.

luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 10:33 a.m.

I think you are correct as is ELISI, I don't think anyone here will ever defend bobbo as to content but I think everyone here WILL defend his right to be wrong.

hawkeye — August 3, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI at 10:58,

I agree with you - if you don't like what he says, just ignore him. But we're not the ones banning him. As near as I can tell, on both this site and the facebook one you can call each other names all day, but you can't insult the staff. No one here read what he said, but apparently Bob got pretty nasty with one of the young ladies there.

roger — August 3, 2011 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere...sorry I missed Knd's run for prez. I'm sure it added much color to the forum! Knd, I'm finding out the type of stamina it takes to run for office differs somewhat from that of what it takes to pro-create...but many times with the same (would the word allegorical apply here?) technic. I haven't heard from my campaign manager in weeks and my finance committee is non-existent. I have appointed a wonderful civility czar and have an opening in my administration that requires someone much brighter and much more capable of rational thought than I...

...The Czar of Existential Freedom and Theocracy. A coalescing of non-existent guidelines and values assessed for the people, by you, then filtered through the charcoallyness of Culligan's Hiearchy of bleeds. On a personal note I'm recovering from an August 01 surgical procedure and might read a little more...disjointed than usual with my narcotical nonsense...

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Besides, we're not missing any of the rhetoric Bob preaches. Jessica what's her name cuts/pastes from the same sources.

roger — August 3, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 11:41 a.m

"I haven't heard from my campaign manager in weeks "

I don't know what you are talking about, I have been sending you faxes every day for the last month.

Did you get the fax machine I sent you?

I just found it on the office floor.

Never mind.

hawkeye — August 3, 2011 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. et al,

RE Bob L.

He wasn't banned multiple times in the old forum because of his opinions.

Both times were because of the level of personal insults and attacks.

I missed his FB postings that caused the warning about his personal attacks and removal of them (and everything else of his).

And in the interests of free speech, it needs to be noted that he deletes postings on his own pages if he doesn't like the questions.

Which shows the level of honesty he work(s)(ed) at when he'd only give a link to his own pages for 'proof', then delete the same questions posed here.

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok people, I found this and want to know who agrees or not that over spending has to stop.

*these are rough numbers but they’re accurate –(the United States) spends about $300 billion a month. It has $180 billion a month that comes to the federal government through taxes and other sources of revenue and that means that in order to meet its bills at the end of every month it needs to borrow $120 billion.*

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not trying to beat the ol' Facebook nag to death, but here is a very interesting social media law in MO:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/02/3053598/new-missouri-law-on-social-media.html

Matt and Libby: this is why educators do not have Facebook pages. It is clean and simple that way. Avoids dual-role relationships and potential trouble.

I will join roger's intermittent pleas to cut loose from Facebook.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL hawkeye...maybe our pres has the same problem with us...except he threw the fax machine complete with message to the republicans!

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 11:51 a.m

Doesn't matter Basil, if he was "booted" for insults or personal attacks, then so be it..other than that he has every right as anyone else to freedom of speech.
There has been many others including myself and you Basil, that has stepped over the line with insults and personal attacks.
If we start picking and choosing what a person can say then we all will never speak again on any subject. I have seen, insults and personal attacks towards presidents, political parties, and a persons opinion on here. If it were solely about insults and personal attacks each of us would have been booted and or banned long ago.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Jessica what's her name seems to be vying for Ann Coulter's job. So mean spirited and out of touch. Some of these people think nothing of labeling a person to be communist, stalinist or whatever. Considering FB and Columbian have no way of putting pic to name it could be anyone. She/he reminds me of ray_menlo who used to post here, and a few that still do. Vindictive with a desperate need to control.

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I plea also for the loss of FB-although one could say it keeps riffraff away from here, but that would be, eh, mean. Plus, a little disagreement adds some spice to it all.
I think we can all agree the great FB experiment did not work out-lol.

luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I will join roger's intermittent pleas to cut loose from Facebook.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 11:56 a.m

I second that manthou.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.

*means that in order to meet its bills at the end of every month it needs to borrow $120 billion.*

Or return tax revenues to pre-Bush cuts.

Or look at how much our hegemonic foreign policy is costing us.

There, finished the point by returning to a rational train of thought.

Everyone who wants these job killing budget cuts does realize it is government spending that provides the roads, water, sewer, food safety, working standards for all of us, right?

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 12:07- I think manthou already seconded the idea which you would then third it. If that's the case then I fourth the idea while allowing myself the flexibility to third it just in case I'm not correct and you did indeed second it. If that's the case how could manthou first it, unless rogers idea is indeed considered the inception point! In any case.......

I agree!

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 12:04 p.m

*right as anyone else to freedom of speech.*

We are on a for profit commercial site (Columbian & FB) and they can legally control content.

Now, the C should respect the right to any opinion, but they do have the right to set guidelines has to HOW that discourse plays out.

*If we start picking and choosing what a person can say then we all will never speak again on any subject.*

Again, it is the HOW that discourse plays out, not WHAT the discourse is. Do you have any specific examples of people's ideas being censored ?

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone see that funny, funny Stephen Colbert satire on the Three Billy Goats Gruff story? President Obama is the troll and the recalcatrant Repubs are the three goats.

The news is all doom and gloom.

I needed a laugh last night and this provided it. Check it out on his website. I think Huffingtonpost has a link to it, as well. I won't provide the link because the language is raw, but oh-so funny!

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 12:11 p.m

The government doesn't open the mom and pop stores, nor does it open and run the athletic store down the street, or your favorite grocery store or clothing store. Nor does the government open and run the trucking, computer industries, news media, etc. The government governs them but the government doesn't provide full money support or pays the pay checks or the bills for them to run. These are just a small listing of jobs held by the majority of the citizens and many do not even have a job. Raising taxes at this time will put more people out of a job, and their homes.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: I had one very silly, silly incident here where my respectful comment was removed for pure censorship.

During the Bethany Storro controversy, I posted a link to Marcus Griffith's Vancouver Voice reporting that described his own investigation that first led to the public question: Did she fake the acid attack?

My post was the day before Lou B was going to do the same in his Press Talk column.

There was absolutely nothing in my post that violated the Guidelines. When I publicly asked him: Why did you remove that? He replied: We don't give free publicity to other media. That confused me, but when Press Talk broke the next morning, I knew what it was about.

Later, when Lou was being interviewed on national TV, he had no problem advertising THOSE media events.

So, yes. I can give this one example, for me, when my comments were censored. The guy has to sell papers, I guess. But the VanVoice raked him over the coals for not giving them credit for the breaking story. He eventually did, with pressure by commenters here.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 12:43 p.m.

However, the government does provide the streets we use to get to that mom and pop store.

It also sets rules and laws for safe trucking.

And if I remember right, no one has been able to bring forward any evidence that the higher tax rates pre-Bush were a drag on the economy.

But plenty of evidence does point to greedy people asking for tax cuts to benefit their own pocket. Note the recent articles on what's happening at the Burgerville site and the proposed new Chucks, not to mention the record profits that aren't getting back into circulation nor how a 15% tax rate on capital gains that benefits hedge fund managers' $Billions/ income returns any good to the commons.

Or how we've let our infrastructure, schools, consumer safety, environmental standards run down.

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-12:37...funny, funny, funny stuff!! Colbert's great and truly one of the great comedic geniuses of our time!

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 12:51 p.m

I did say the government "governs" those businesses I listed, Basil, they do not pay the start up or the bills for them.

I know a couple that owns a restaurant here in Vancouver. They wanted to open another one in Hazel Dell, but was told their fees would be $250,000. They dropped the idea and went to Portland to open their second restaurant.
So you see how that is just one example of why we can not get small businesses to come to Vancouver, but yet, give huge tax breaks to big business like SEH, and most likely will be given to Kassab for his building at the old Burgerville site and who know how much the taxes will be cut for the baseball stadium.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 3, 2011 at 12:46 p.m

Thanks for the example; guess we should screencap some stuff.

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 1:34 p.m.

I don't see where anyone is arguing for government starting businesses; which isn't the argument at all.

but it does provide, through our taxes, the infrastructure that society is dependent on; roads, food safety, working standards, water, sewers, etc.

And your quote makes the assumption that government spending needs to be throttled rather than looking at balances between our needs and budgets.

So, why is defense essentially off the table?

Why is a RETURN to pre-Bush tax cuts off the table?

Why is the rw/tp working at cutting aspects they don't like (NPR, EPA) rather than looking at the full scope of the budget? Why not cut the corn subsidy? Why not cut the oil subsidy? Why not defense procurement? Why not change the cap on SS?

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


basil I own a small busness here in Vancouver. And did not notice any difference with or without the Bush tax cuts.I have owned this busness for 35 years and have 3 employees that make a min. of 23.00$ per hr.The regulation that are put on us have made a difference.We now have to pay for our regular busness lis.plus 50.00 per year for each employee.Than try to find parking for our employees down town.I pay 25.00 for rented parking for employees and customers.per month per space.Now the city is concidering a lis. fee for vehicles regestered within the city.That would be 20.00 per.And I have seven.It is the small stuff that keeps adding up.I won't live long enough to see it but the tolls could be a killer for us.We make several trips across the river each day.

terick — August 3, 2011 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So, why is defense essentially off the table?

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 2:45 p.m

So Basil do tell us what and where do you think defense needs to be cut?

IMO,.. bring the troops home..didn't Obama during the campaign say he'd, well promised to bring them home?
Find better less costly suppliers. Demand cheaper contracts with the defense contractors.
Cut the cost in equipment? Hell NO! If we put the troops in harms way because of the politicians then they must have the best of the best equipment to protect them.
Remember when Clinton was in office he made major cuts in the defense. Many Forts and bases closed, many combined branch's on one fort or base. Like McChord and Ft Lewis, San Diego merged with the Marines, etc He also downsized the amount of personal, this is why so many of the troops have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan more than 2 times and why National Guard and the Reserves have been called up for deployment..
The troops now pay for their clothes, where in the past they didn't until they became a NCO.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


terick: I appreciate your sharing with us what you are experiencing in your own small business. I know the city is raising parking fees for residents and taking away long-term handicapped parking. What used to cost about $20 every six months for a parking permit, is now costing about $40 a month.
Your nickel-and-dime analogy is right.

How do you anticipate the Health Care Reform Act will impact you? Some business owners, like the gentleman who owns Hosely Eco Auto, are looking forward to it. Some are not.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Why not cut the corn subsidy? Why not cut the oil subsidy?*

Basil, they will not cut the corn subsidy and I think you know why.
All those who screamed for bio diesel...now think Basil which party had the loudest voice for bio diesel?

They won't cut the oil either, bio diesel isn't viable..will it ever be? I don't think so, to take soil away from producing food to grow bio diesel corn just isn't right. Until they come up with a viable answer to oil, we are stuck with paying the subsidies for it.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: The bio-diesel I use in my Jetta TDI comes mostly from waste oil at the Kettle Chip plant in Salem. My exhaust smells like peanut oil. :) I think corn is used for ethanol. I might be wrong.

I found the Columbian article about some small Vancouver businesses and their take on Health Care Reform Act:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ja...

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI - friend just posted today that the Dept. of Defense spent $22.5 Billion in 2009 on rust removal and prevention! Total cost of Canadian military $21 Billion. We spent more than Canada on rust alone! (DoDBuzz.com)
We need to cut spending, but like a good surgeon, a scalpel would work much better than a chainsaw! This Congress does not come equipped with the right tools!

Mrs_T — August 3, 2011 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


terick — August 3, 2011 at 3:20 p.m.

Thanks for the note that returning taxes wouldn't materially change your business plan.

Some of your other examples would be partially solved by a better public transit infrastructure, you know.

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T @ 4:44 pm: Amazing numbers your friend shared! Thanks for the web address. I will take a peek.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*didn't Obama during the campaign say*

He did,but then he said a lot that hasn't happened.....

But, he's not the issue here, and you know that.

*Find better less costly suppliers. Demand cheaper contracts with the defense contractors. Cut the cost in equipment? Hell NO! If we put the troops in harms way because of the politicians*

There is a strong case of 'if the only tool in your belt is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail' here. The $$ going to military, from Eisenhower on esp., could well have gone to humanitarian foreign aid and domestic programs.

That Obama is following the same path as Kennedy - Bush just shows how entrenched the military is in our national dialog.

, *this is why so many of the troops have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan more than 2 times*

Well, partially. Also there is the fact that Bush and Obama both know they can't reinstate the draft and until the economy tanked the recruiters had trouble raising the amount of needed cannon fodder. Note also, to fill up the roster, the DOD had to lower the standards 2 or 3 times. And increase bonus $$. Until the economy tanked...

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 4:22 p.m.

*Basil, they will not cut the corn subsidy .....loudest voice for bio diesel?*

Realize we are in a period of big transitions. You may not be aware of it, but we, as a world, are on the downhill side of oil production. Pretending we can keep finding and pumping is rather (Canada allusion) like sticking one's head in the sand.

Realize also that most of the 'food shortage' with corn going into ethanol was due to meat producers feeding cattle -who aren't primarily grain eaters - and processed food manufacturers being able to raise their prices more quickly than the rest of the users. And there is the pesky issue of the food becoming more 'valuable' and less being sent out in foreign aid / trade.

*They won't cut the oil either,*

We note you aren't complaining about which party ......

*bio diesel isn't viable..will it ever be? I don't think so, to take soil away from producing food to grow bio diesel corn just isn't right. Until they come up with a viable answer to oil, we are stuck with paying the subsidies for it.*

Just as with wind and solar and a myriad of other subsidies.

All of which help promote business and trade and development of better technologies and processes.

Which brings us back to the main point; Where is the 'super congress' going to look for budget cuts? There really isn't that much 'fat'.

And that is why there was so much cock crowing put into things like 'look, we cut NPR and saved some pocket change'.

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Can someone help me understand how Grover Norquist got to be so powerful with Congressional Republicans? He seems to me like the puppetmaster, pulling the strings.

Why?

How?

Until Congress starts to worry more about the people of this country and less about being re-elected or rejected by their hero Norquist, we will continue to lose jobs, our strength and our hope.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — August 3, 2011 at 4:44 p.m

If they didn't do the rust removal and prevention then they would have to replace the equipment.

1. One Carrier would cost about $6 billion, we have 11
2. One Cruiser would be about $1.5 billion, we have 22
3. One Navy F-18 cost about $60 million, we have 500
4. One Air Force F-22 cost $150 million, we have 168

I think you get the idea the cost of prevention out ways the cost of replacement.

Canada has about 67,000 to 70,000 active personal where the US has 1,431,000.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou I believe my son told me of a show he'd watch last year where Willie Nelson is in partners with others in the mid west..grow corn for bio diesel.
I maybe wrong, will have to ask him about it.

@August 3, 2011 at 5:16 p.m

*Until Congress starts to worry more about the people of this country and less about being re-elected*

You have hit the nail square on the head about Congress manthou. That goes for both parties IMO.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil..

*And that is why there was so much cock crowing put into things like 'look, we cut*

Lets face it Basil, they all do that. Each and everyone of them.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This damn Congress went on vacation leaving a union busting bill behind in order to fund the FAA. Somehow the definition of treason has been in my minds eye as of late. If the Dems don't hold the line on this then we should concede next years election to the right. Obama doesn't appear to have what it takes to be a successful president, he should go back to teaching or organizing which I'm sure he's more than competent. If the Dems can't get a new candidate it's over for an America with centrist policies. Right wing Obama v extreme right wing anarchists.

I'd like to take all these guys and make em' "eat their peas."

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I hear ya'. Who would you like to see challenge President Obama in a Democratic primary? I'd like to see Hillary Clinton give it a shot. Bernie Sanders would be great, but he is too far left, unfortunately.

___________________________________________________

Elisi: I remember BioWillie gas stations. Here is a blurb about it. He started to use "feedstock" to supplement it toward the end, so that might mean corn. For the most part, it is waste veggie oil. It costs a lot more money, which is why it is rotting in the tanks and needs to be dumped every so often. I have paid more than $5 a gallon at times. It isn't a viable solution to our dependency on foreign oil when it costs so much more. I do like the way it smells, though! My car farts popcorn.

http://www.celsias.com/article/what-happened-to-biowillie/

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 3, 2011 at 5:16 p.m.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070905.html

mr_basil_seal — August 3, 2011 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My car farts popcorn.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 6:57 p.m

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my goodness manthou I haven't laughed that hard for weeks! Thanks for the smile I now have and the link...too funny!!!

I for one would love to see Hillary Clinton run against Obama.
She should have been the one last time running against McCain. IMO

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: The above link is something I found about BioWillie, his gas stations. Looks like, toward the end, he started to use "feedstock", which might refer to corn. Mostly, though, it was waste grease. It is not a viable alternative to foreign oil because of the expense. It has cost me over $5 a gallon at times. Mostly, it is rotting in the tanks because of this, and has to be thrown out. Until it is affordable, it won't go anywhere.

The cars that are true grease cars, though, can use restaurant waste oil that has been filtered. Most places give that stuff away. It takes a bit of technical skill to retrofit a diesel with a grease tank, but folks are doing it.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: Thanks for the John Dean link. I have seen his book promoted and discussed on various shows recently. It is on my "to read" list.

I have to say, I am hooked on my Nook. Never thought I would get used to it, but, I can carry thousands of volumes in my purse and download a book for a fraction of the price of the hardcover edition. It is encouraging my summer reading more than ever. :)

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Earlier today I signed up for the Petition2congress.com to draft Hillary Clinton for Pres. She has the machine money and power to make it happen. I hope she gets the fire again. I made a big mistake supporting this President. He is governing the opposite of what he campaigned on. Enough is enough. Bush/Obama tax breaks for the rich was enough of a shock and a broken promise, but this...he made up for no reason... and what is to come.....he has become a republican and in many ways a disgrace to the democratic party in my opinion. He is fighting for corporate values rather than the American people.

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: My dear husband tonight said the same thing to me tonight: Hillary would not have let this happen. We will never know, but I truly think that we are seeing a Civil War re-enactment with different weapons in our country and the casualties are mounting by the hour.

I am truly in mourning for our country.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I fear if this President were to nominate another Justice to the Supreme Court he would allow the extreme right to influence his decision. Just to "balance things out".

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I really do believe she would have rolled up her sleeves, marched right on the floor and told them, lets get to work!
Stood toe to toe with them until they worked out what is needed. Unlike who we have now that wanted a blank check and only his way.
Sorry if I offended anyone, but that is MO. I didn't vote for Obama nor McCain. I just felt neither could get the job done.

I do agree nailingit, it is far past shameful what they did.

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I asked once before and will again...is there anyway to do a vote of no confidence?

ELISI — August 3, 2011 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I have say, my husband not only told me that he does not think we would be in this mess if Hillary were at the healm, he also reminded me that I was the one who cajoled and begged him to change his vote at our precinct caucus from Hillary to Obama. He was swept up in the Hope, too, though.

I will look into the petition you talked about. :(

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen- There will no doubt be less demand for turkey meat as we the people have had our fill with the turkey's in congress to include the white house. Couple that with jets crashing from the sky, inadvertently bombing Tyson trucks due to the FAA budget going unfunded. I've always thought cats and dogs living together would be a sign of the end times. Not a turkey shoot on the American Airways!

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Everyone should catch Alan Simpson (R-Wyoming) on the Laurence O'Donnell show today. Love em or hate em, In my opinion a true Republican in the sense of willing to enact policy that strikes balance and whose intentions are well meaning for us as a nation. Republicans did not use to behave this poorly. Not as collectively anyway.

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I can't explain it Allen. I did not support her. I would support her in a few positions but nothing on the political front. Not to promote back door politics!

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Billary in 2012. 'A pair you can live with!' !!! A 2 for 1. What it would do the the Republican Base to have Bill living in the White House again!!! AHHH HAHAHA!!!!

Man...is there a down side to this idea?

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit: Oh, yeah. I saw the Allen Simpson interview by Lawrence O'Donnell tonight, which motivated my question about Grover Norquist. How I long for the Allen Simpsons the Mark Hatfields. True statesmen. He really tells it like it is, doesn't he? He is as disgusted by what is going on in Congress as any of us are now.

manthou — August 3, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Honestly, today was a good day in the basement. Great discussions, great links (definitely looked at the one for Hillary and emailed to a few) and learned a number of things I can't get anywhere else. Thanks all!! I think we need to ensure FB stays for the C-much better to keep discussion the way it is here now that I think about it. Long live the basement.

luvithere — August 3, 2011 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree luvithere. The FB side should stay there. They lack basement civility and it's job security for Lou. He has to vacuum the ashes from his FB carpet several times a day! It would be nice if he stuck his avatar in once in awhile and said hello to the basement.

nailingit — August 3, 2011 at 10:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen- The Columbian reported in a July 06 article on the debt ceiling, that Jamie Herrera-Beutler did indeed sign the pledge. Yes she did.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Thanks for the thoughts on mystery manipulator, Grover Norquist.

Have you seen the movie, "Casino Jack?" Kevin Spacey plays Jack Abramoff and Jeffrey Smith plays Grover Norquist. The movie was an eye-opener. American democracy for sale.

How Norquist emerged from that scandal unscathed is preposterous.

Like Allen Simpson asked last night: "Why are you all so afraid of him?" My guess is that he has a lot of dirt on key players.

Stay tuned, eh?

manthou — August 4, 2011 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 4, 2011 at 6:33 a.m.
I like the following from the LttE you linked to:

"Of course, anyone who hasn’t read the three volumes might believe a Republican right-wing talking-point interpretation of the work. I suppose that if you haven’t read Louisa May Alcott’s “Little Women,” I can probably convince you that it’s about a group of female midgets."

Yesterday there was an article on DailyKos with this line:
" Among the many things one could say about Marx's writings is that most people seem to have an opinion about them even though they never have read his work. "

Gee, sounds like a good explanation for some of the behaviors of a few ex posters here (though a couple grace the FB side)....

the article is about a book about Marx's writings:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/02/1002439/-Reflections-on-Why-Marx-was-right:-A-Book-review?via=search

mr_basil_seal — August 4, 2011 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I haven't seen Casino Jack but plan to soon. Kevin Spacey is great! Considering how Grover has been playing such a key role in politics for such a long time warrants much more scrutiny from the public and media. It would be nice if a major outlet would do an expose' on this Republican icon and deal breaker. If only the sullied walls of Grover's mind could talk!

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This post belongs on the CRC page we have, but I'm getting the idea this is the only one The Columbian staff monitors with any frequency. So....

Once again The Columbian is running an editorial that discusses the favorable aspects of MAX. In the interest of fairness, and to provide a complete picture, when are you going to present a complete analysis of the impact of bringing the Yellow line into Vancouver?

To me, the issue boils down to looking at how many people the Yellow line could move to downtown Portland during weekday morning rush hour (6-9 A.M.) and back to Vancouver during the afternoon rush hour (3-6 P.M.). This will require someone to determine how many people each of the cars can hold, how often the Yellow line runs, and then you'll have to factor in considerations such as current rider numbers and capacity to add additional runs.

Just about all the info you'll need is on Trimet's website. The only time I've had to go elsewhere was to find the capcity of the cars they use, and I Wiki'd this info.

My own calculations, based on having completely empty cars at the Vancouver stops in the morning, is that MAX could move perhaps 4,000 riders total per day. This would require packing both cars full, to include standing room, on each of the 4 per hour runs. The numbers would probably be lower, though, in that Portland riders who currently board the line at the Expo Center stop would certainly ride north to ensure having a seat. I also expect numbers would drop further once commuters discover getting a ride home in the evening will become much harder and take longer - current riders from OHSU and other downtown locations will take seats and get off before arriving in Vancouver.

So, will this truly put a dent in the supposed 60,000 plus commuter traffic we have every day?

And then you can start adding dollars to the equation.

As I've said before, to me light rail is the biggest boondoggle associated with the CRC project. Assuming a new bridge can clear the traffic congestion (doubtful), C-Tran can move people at a much lower cost by increasing bus runs.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil with only 3 employees I don't think the health care act will impact us.I don't offer insurance instead I put the money on their checks.The reason I do that is because I don't want to administer it.

terick — August 4, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


From The Atlantic:

The real concern ought to be about delegated government. Because that is precisely what the debt-ceiling compromise creates in three separate ways. "Delegated" might be too tame a word. Others like "subcontracted" or "outsourced" come to mind.

Super committee:

Sequestration:

Balanced-budget amendment:

Otherwise, the temptation to delegate, subcontract, and outsource the budget process will continue, legislative power will diminish, **the people's voice will shrink**, and the word "dysfunctional" might actually apply.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/with-debt-deal-congress-abdicated-its-responsibilities/243094/

mr_basil_seal — August 4, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger- Not so sure they pay more attention here than they do..there.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***OK, time for a little humor.***

A Beaver fan, a Husky fan, & a Duck fan are climbing a mountain & arguing about who loves their team the most. The Beaver fan insists he's the most loyal of the three. "This is for the Beavs!" he yells, & jumps off the mountain. Not to be outdone, the Duck fan is the next to profess his love for his team. He yells, "this is for the Ducks!" & he pushes the Husky fan off the mountain.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! Good one hawk.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe we've found where BobL got/gets his talking points...

Santorum: Govt Pre-School Programs Want To ‘Indoctrinate Your Children’
Eric Kleefeld


Rick Santorum fired a verbal salvo at early-education programs on Tuesday, telling an Iowa crowd that government pre-school programs are part of a hideous plot by the government to indoctrinate children.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/santorum-govt-pre-school-programs-want-to-indoctrinate-your-children.php

mr_basil_seal — August 4, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 4, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.

And THIS guy wants to run for President? That's amazing. If that were even remotely true, there would be a whole lot less opposition to the government today. Santorum is indeed a whack job. I think you are right, Basil, sounds like bobbo.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal-Santorum, Bachman, Palin the conservative movement as a whole seem to buy into this concept. The biases and prejudices that have long dominated the republican agenda are truly boiling to the top. Like scum from over cooked meat sauce.

alley- Great read and speaks to how corrupt corporate America is.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


To lighten things here a bit...here's one for you Hawkeye, Allen..

Ruger is coming out with a new pistol
in honor of Senators and Representatives.
It will be named the "Congressman".

It doesn't work and it can't be fired.

ELISI — August 4, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 4, 2011 at 10:45 a.m. *When it comes to the military, there are, if reports are to be believed, more merc's that GI's serving in the hot spots.*

Even more interesting.....

"By January 2012, the State Department will do something it’s never done before: command a mercenary army the size of a heavy combat brigade. That’s the plan to provide security for its diplomats in Iraq once the U.S. military withdraws. And no one outside State knows anything more, as the department has gone to war with its independent government watchdog to keep its plan a secret."

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/07/iraq-merc-army/

mr_basil_seal — August 4, 2011 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Terick,

We have a small business as well with 4 employees and offer a medical plan and it's not cheap but I certainly would like to take advantage of the tax credit under the new Health Plan that businesses larger than 25 employees will get...As for the administration of it I call my insurance agent and they come over with a packet for the new employee to fill out, I don't get involved except paying the premiums..

vanwadreamer — August 4, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's being alleged that 92% of Newt Gingrich's followers on Twitter are fake. It's also being alleged Newt hired multiple firms to create these fictitious accounts. Newt.....

....say it ain't so!

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That nearly one trillion dollar stimulus spending really turned things around. The economy and job market and stock market are just fabulous now...

Woosker — August 4, 2011 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 4, 2011 at 12:58 p.m

Last week I moved all of my 401k into a guaranteed 3% return fund. I have to leave to there 90 days but I think I can live with that.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — August 4, 2011 at 1:55 p.m.

It's all ice cream and cake for those that have it (the big shots that call the shots) not so much for the rest of us. I think it's time to repeal the Bush tax cuts.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - I'm for a flat tax. The corporations could not hide their money through loopholes and we would not have 50% of the population not paying any federal income tax. Think of all the money we could save by getting rid of most of the IRS.

Woosker — August 4, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

Try calling Herrera's office and ask for the date of the next scheduled town hall meeting in Vancouver so you can ask your question regarding her oath to "good old Grover". In fact everyone reading this should dial 695-6292 and ask about the where/when of "our" town hall meeting. I did, and after some stumbling around by the person answering the phone, I was told, "we are working on it". But then with 5 weeks paid vacation I am sure she has better things to do.

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 4, 2011 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- I have ALWAYS been for a flat tax. NO DEDUCTIONS, NO LOOPHOLES. You make a buck, you pay a nickle, or whatever the tax might be. If everyone making more than the poverty level had to pay the same thing, there would not be a problem.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We tend to forget that 40% of the stimulus package were tax breaks. Rescind the Bush/Obama tax cuts today!!!

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

I didn't move much of any investments prior to 08 and took a very minimum setback for about 14 months but my account has actually rebounded and i've recouped that and am up double digits the past 16 months...If your investing is diversified and professionally managed and not by the person investing this drop will be more of a blip and not much else.. Most people who have 401 company plans have no idea what they are investing other than what the company person told then when they signed up.. the Dow represents only a few companies where most portfolios should be diversified more than just stocks..

If we actually had a leader of this country that could make good decisions by himself without having to form a comittee to see what the previous comittee was doing we wouldn't see all this fear...

I agree on your last sentence 100%. What kind of person would that leave us with Alley if not a demagogue or populist...A federalist??

vanwadreamer — August 4, 2011 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree 100% Hawkeye!

Woosker — August 4, 2011 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Oh man, I wish there is a leader we call all rally behind that is not a demagogue or a populist..." alleycat — at 2:11 p.m.

How will we identify that person? And if ID'd, will that person be willing to go through the garbage we subject candidates for public office to?

Hillary says she's done. I don't know if she could fulfill what we need, but I'm not seeing anyone else that could do better. Colin Powell is charismatic enough and a capable administrator, but he declined from the get go - he has served his country well and has no need to accept the grief we'd subject him to as a Presidential candidate. I've always been a fan of Bill Richardson, but he hasn't got the charisma to make it past the early stages of the campaign season.

Why do we demand that our leaders be perfect people? To run for office you have to be willing to endure what amounts to character assassination from the opposite side. And the television/radio politicos love that stuff - it's become their reason for existence.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Let's set our sights high. We could be the next Mongolia if we really try. A flat tax oppresses the middle class to the point it's the 3rd world countries first choice and they love it. Come on woosker, loopholes disappear if we have a flat tax??? LOL! Why be disingenuous. Tell 3rd world dictators of your clarity. It's all about "taxable income". The tea party and right wing extremists have been screaming for a flat tax since day one. The thieves that are behind the flat tax love it because they pocket all the money.

hawkeye I understand the simple concept of fairness on the surface that a flat tax idea represents. Is there a mainstream economy/country where this works?

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Is personal income tax the real problem? I'm under the impression corporations are the ones getting all kinds of subsidies and tax breaks, and consequently getting away with paying far less than their share.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Germany's so-called flat tax is most likely more convoluted and complex than ours. Right now they are having big time problems. Capitalism seems to be failing because of greed. Just like the rest of em'.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I returned here from Germany in 2001. Their biggest problem at the time was the uncontrolled immigration of East Germans, Russians, Turks and Kurds. The state could afford the education and social programs of a stable population, but all the additional load put a heavy strain on them. And about the time I left they went from the Mark to the Euro, and became one of the few "have" nations supporting all the "have nots." I suspect these are the real reasons they're in trouble now.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I left in 09' and a huge part of the problem the way I see it is taxation and how it translates to the middle class. We need stimulative policy enacted here that requires investment as well as providing strong incentives for corporations to hire and manufacture in the USA, as well as strong disincentives for those who employ/manufacture overseas. IMHO. A health care system that is all inclusive to bring down costs and it's share of the GDP. We need strong investment in infrastructure as well as continuing unemployment benefits and shoring up individual states that have suffered losses due to a decade old failed policy. If I'm elected President I will reform the tax code to include a one time "flat tax" on those making more than 100 million annually and use it to stimulate myself and the economy. A trip to the Bahamas sounds in order....

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,
you are right on with that comment. Now look at the US with all the illegal immigration... Sounds familiar...

I used to be in favor of a flat tax but found this website and others that leave me looking to be educated more...

http://www.pafairtax.org/resrcs/FlatTaxFairTaxComparison.pdf

vanwadreamer — August 4, 2011 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The fair tax shuts down medicare but hey......it's the tea party's 1st choice! Dick's Armey's plan is great!....but this is just ...super!

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — August 4, 2011 at 3:26 p.m.

I scanned the Fair Tax plan, I didn't see how it dealt with "retiree wages". Whether it be 401k payments, annuities, pension or SSI.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They sent my Census form back! AGAIN!!! In response to the question: "Do you have any dependents?" I replied - "12 million illegal immigrants; 3 million crack heads; 42 million unemployable people, 2 million people in over 243 prisons; Half of Mexico; and 535 idiots in the U.S. House and Senate. Apparently, this was NOT an acceptable answer.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, has anybody read this? What kind of idiots are we electing on the County level? Shouldn't they have checked this crap out before going ahead and hiring a contractor?

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/au...

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - I understand why you would not like a flat tax. With a flat tax, idividuals are encouraged to work harder, earn more money and further their careers under a flat tax system, whereas a progressive tax system tends to punish people for success.

However, tax evasion and avoidance would become less profitable, decreasing the number of people who do not pay their taxes, and it would no longer be possible to manipulate the deductions in the tax code to completely negate the tax burden of high-income individuals.

Woosker — August 4, 2011 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

I agree that taxation is the middle class's major problem. But we can go further with this discussion - in my opinion, the middle class is seen as the cash cow by both ends of the political spectrum. If we want real "fairness" then we need to eliminate the tax breaks given to both corporate America and the poor.

As Woosker pointed out earlier, half the people pay nothing. Eliminate the EIC deductions and institute a low end tax rate for the working poor. I don't care if it's 5%, as someone suggested earlier, or even lower - but EVERYONE should pay something.

We need to get away from pretending small businesses and big corporations are the same. Small businesses that create jobs here, whether they provide a service, trade goods, or actually make something, should be supported. Tax breaks could be given to owners based on numbers employed and wages paid. And if this business can be shown to lead to other businesses being created, then an additional tax break might be in order.

Major corporations need to be looked at differently. Subsidies should go away, and be replaced with tax credits based on their contribution to the economic well being of our country. As an example, Mobil is making large profits. If they reinvest in our economy by drilling in our country (employing US citizens), modernizing the delivery systems, and doing other things that result in lower prices at the gas pump, then I could see tax credits. But if the profits are going to investors or out of country - tax them at a higher rate. Nike is another example. We need to slap import tariffs on their shoes - treat them like a foreign corporation for moving their production to places like Indonesia. If that means higher priced shoes, so be it. If the price gets too high, then Nike can go away. On the other hand, if a foreign corporation sets up shop in the US (Toyota, for example) and creates decent jobs here, then they should get a break.

I suppose this is all way too simplistic and can be shot full of holes. But as a starting point????

roger — August 4, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Maybe they sent it back because you forgot to count a few dependents - like the country of Israel.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I knew I'd forget someone.....

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***And in other news,***

Disapproval Rating of Congress at a Record 82 Percent, Poll Finds

The debate over raising the debt ceiling, which brought the nation to the brink of default, has sent disapproval of Congress to its highest level on record and left most Americans saying that creating jobs should now take priority over cutting spending, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

A record 82 percent of Americans now disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job — the most since The Times first began asking the question in 1977, and even more than after another political stalemate led to a shutdown of the federal government in 1995.

More than four out of five people surveyed said that the recent debt ceiling debate was more about gaining political advantage than about doing what is best for the country. Nearly three-quarters said that the debate had harmed the image of the United States in the rest of the world.

***see that, I knew we weren't so dumb after all***

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Reference the biomass plant. I think Lew Waters has the right idea here - set up a lawn chair, get some popcorn, and watch the show.

My own opinion is that the plant does not belong at 11th and Harney. It belongs several blocks further west in the Port/industrial area. Vancouver's city plan shows 11th and Harney being in an area zoned as government (whatever that might be). But I believe this area is currently a mix of office buildings and residential. (Maybe manthou or someone who knows the area better can elaborate.) Burning biomass (trash, in my book) shouldn't be done here.

roger — August 4, 2011 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger- I completely agree and argued the same before we were relegated to the basement. I don't think bio-mass is sustainable in the long term especially where the fuel has to be trucked so far to be used, that is unless they are going to get "green" fuel from the transfer station up the street and that will not burn properly until it's dry. Ask any chimney sweep.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


woosker @ 4:17- Your insult in your first paragraph speaks to the substance of your next. The tea is strong around here! Did you not vote for Bush? For Palin? For McCain? Joseph Smith Himself could give you a vision and it wouldn't affect your opinion or broaden your understanding. That's all right. Just don't disguise your tea party crap with a flag and a sound bite and expect people not to react.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Some good points. We as a people need to be involved with changes that need to be made. Mandatory town halls and other venues should be used so the average citizen can supply input to our elected.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen-I got the same call. I listened to a voice that was said to be Jaime drone for several minutes about medicare, then she took a call from "Janice in Camas" I believe. No one ever asked me what I wanted to ask. I was going to ask her why she signed Grover's pledge. I wonder if it was live as advertised...might be a GOP hat trick to make us think they are working, caring...while giving us the high hard one leaving unfinished business on the floor. Theses people are a mess and have what is seemingly a poor work ethic ta boot.

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, now I'm ticked off!!!

I've written her several letters.

She doesn't call me!

Typical stuck up California girl from Camas.

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You didn't miss much hawkeye...my second question I was going to ask her what she was wearing...

Hard to say if it was all put on and pre-recorded. Not a completely bad venue...but if you weren't called than what is it worth. Does she know who you are?

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Does she know who you are?

nailingit — August 4, 2011 at 10:30 p.m

Hell, she doesn't even know who she is unless Boehner tells her!

hawkeye — August 4, 2011 at 11:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There is one indisputable fact concerning nation states and empires. Eventually, they all end. The question is-when, and how?
Some last for less than a century, and end abruptly. Others last a half a millennium, and slowly fade away.

We are seeing warning signs, growing ever more strident. Will we take heed, or will we continue down the path of decadence and foolishness?

Alleycat, how was Mt St Helens? Elisi's account sounds like its not just a pile of ash and rock anymore...

mangoboy — August 5, 2011 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With the Dow down about 10% in the last couple of days. it appears Wall Street's plan is to sell off 'cause it ain't gonna get better anytime soon and they're making their prophecy self-fulfilling. Glad I bailed entirely when DC was playing the debt ceiling game.

My guess is economists soon will declare we're into the double-dip recession, but it won't matter, for most of us it never ended.

mrd — August 5, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - When you do not have any facts to present on behalf of your argument, you resort to insults. Very small way of thinking on your part but not surprising. It appears you are not able to open your mind to other points of view but very good at the old, tired, typical stereotypes. Very boring.. Try something original at least.

Woosker — August 5, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- Feel free to cite your example that caused you to feel...victimized. I don't quite know what I said but I will try and be much more...tender and considerate when addressing you.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal



LOL!!! It's a different generation!

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Somebody was asking for proof that BobL was banned again....

*"A year ago or so, they banned me from their old politics Forum for daring to write in the same manner, only from a conservative viewpoint, as their specially protected liberal pets.
Then they went to a linkage with FaceBook and I was back on again.Now they have blocked me from there too.They can not stand the truths I reveal about liberals and Lamestream Media.They have encourged personal attacks from liberals."*

https://www.facebook.com/notes/bob-larimer/this-letter-to-the-editor-was-censored-by-the-columbian-my-local-newspaper/10150262157515967

mr_basil_seal — August 5, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Basil, what do you want to bet his memory is different from the actual facts? I saw no written attacks on any member of the staff and no mention of Ms. Rice.

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 5, 2011 at 7:12 a.m

They are leaving the Mtn and the surrounding areas as natural as was...replanting and letting mother nature take her own time and way of re-doing the area. We saw very little logging areas. When they do log, they replant.
They have left the trails in ash (very, very little of it) to stay with the naturalness of the area.

Would I build hotels/motels and recreational facilities?? Oh Hell no! That would completely ruin it!
Besides they do have Coldwater Lake just below for a picnic area and boating.

ELISI — August 5, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 9:36 a.m

Most serious forum software allows for the admin to add a warning in the post, replace the post with a link if a reader wants to read it, disemvowel, or ban the author.

Then there's FB.....

What's funny about BobL's screed is that he's written an almost unintelligible letter trying to prove he's being personally attacked - not addressing the issue as a community standard - and then claiming the C is censoring him because they didn't post his letter.....

Next week he'll probably have proof that John Dewey had it against himself personally;....

mr_basil_seal — August 5, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Bob Larimer commented on columbian.com.
My Local Newspaper, The Columbian, Linked To FaceBook. They Are A Total, Flaming, Liberal-Democrat-Supporting Rag. I See My Posts On Their Site, But I'm Told By Friends That I've Been Blocked - Surprise! - For Violating Their Limp-Wristed Double-Standard:

Conservatives Must Make Nicey-Nice. Liberals Can Bash, Slam, Use Profanity, Graphic Language And It's All Good. Liberal Dweeb Lamestream Media! But I Can Still L

Defense facing cuts up to $850B over 10 years | The Columbian
www.columbian.com
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Defense Department is facing cuts of up to $850 billion over a decade under the compromise struck by President Barack Obama and congressional leaders.
Tuesday at 8:01am · Like · · Subscribe"

mr_basil_seal — August 5, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - I dont feel victimized. I just think your comments are small minded. To assume I like Palin/McCain and the book of Mormom just because I think Progressive's resent the rich is pretty lame on your part. Try discussing the actual merits of a topic instead of resorting to incorrect generalizations of a person that you have never met.

Woosker — August 5, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Planet of the Apes, revisited...how appropo. We have a nation of virtual apes. But where is the wakeup potion to bring us to our senses? No Leader is strong enough to overcome the Republicons and Demogogues. Senators and Congressmen have been babbling simplistic nonsense, then bring us one rotten banana to share for all of us. And they are so proud of themselves they were finally able to "eliminate waste" and now off for vacation.
They seem to be turning a blind eye to obvious. The family unit is the building block of civilization, and sustained by one family wage job. Pretty basic yet they don't get it. Oh well.

ILISA/Alleycat I propose a compromise. ONE lodge at St Helens, a trail around the entire thing, and a road that continues on to Mt Ranier.

mangoboy — August 5, 2011 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi

wow. not even close to your correct spelling in my last post.
waaaay bad!

mangoboy — August 5, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL mangoboy no sweat...you probably couldn't say it away...since it is an American Native word...

ELISI — August 5, 2011 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- I won't assume you "like" McPalin, even though you have said you voted to put them both in the White House. A far reaching assumption on my part. You think progressives resent the rich?!? LOL! No generalizations on your part! LOL! You spout the so-called corporate principles and elitist diatribe of the narrow minded, ill informed, hypocritical, anti-American Tea Baggers I see in print. I assumed you would hoist the King and Queen of Bagging in Glenn and Sarah with a certain haughty pride...instead of distancing yourself from them and feeling victimized. I remember some of your comments in the past. I appreciate this victim approach of yours to the bile bombing in the past.

Do you have anything to contribute other than whining and pointing a finger? Please discuss issues and don't grab on to me...you remind me of someone else on here that takes personal shots in order to have their voice heard.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - I don't like Palin, when she comes on tv, I turn the channel. You don't know what you are talking about.

I was actually hoping to just have a back on forth on the merits of a flat tax. I never insulted you personally or attempted to label you with one all inclusive group as you did to me.

You come across as someone who has a lot of anger towards others that don't share your political views. I was just hoping for some healthy debate not a personal argument.

Perhaps that's why there are only a few regulars down here in the basement.

Have a good day. That is sincere by the way.

Woosker — August 5, 2011 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, it's 11:15 and the market is UP 83 points right now.

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- Thanks for taking the high road with the back handed out the door adios insult. Some things never change.

Feel free to discuss your "merits". I won't challenge your points as before. You're on your own!! You can do it! Please don't victimize yourself any further. It's unbecoming.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, Hey, Hey,,,,,

This ain't the FB side, can't we all just get a long?

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for your inspirational words hawk. Reminds me of the LAPD and Rodney King! Peaceful and tranquil thoughts....yes......

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...back on track and feeling peaceful.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - I agree with you completely on the money issue. I'm just a regular working gal married to a fabulous guy trying to pay for 4 kids in college. I'll probably be a lot more relaxed when a couple are done. :o)

Woosker — August 5, 2011 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 12:43 PM: Ouch! With apologies to Jimmy Buffett: Too bad there ain't no jerk vaccine!

I think that people who proudly put their names to such garbage are much more dangerous than those who do so anonymously. Shows they don't care.

Our country is suffering from a civility deficit, among other things.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil-thanks very much for the link to Larimer's "letter." How did you get that? You connected to him on FB? I urge all who can to go and read the whole long thing, the letter, his own comments, and the pictures he put up also. Lou, Matt, John, all right next to Hitler as in Bobbo's mind they all censor. Honestly, one can disagree with Lou, but in no way can he be compared to old Adolf. How absolutely ridiculous. Honestly, the whole post blows your mind. Makes me really think he is suffering from a mental illness. But then-what or who would we complain about without him?

luvithere — August 5, 2011 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 5, 2011 at 2:22 p.m.

Just before he got banned the most recent time, he kept referencing one of his own pages as 'proof'.

Now, with auto-complete, his page shows up as possible in FB......

forgot the link....
http://www.facebook.com/bob.larimer1?sk=wall

mr_basil_seal — August 5, 2011 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 5, 2011 at 2:22 p.m

In no way am I defending BobL. But what I get is him informing others of the danger of the censure. I think BobL feels that the censure by Lou and the paper could lead to what Hitler did.
Hitler censored everything he didn't like or that spoke against him and his ideals.

I find BobL to ramble. Almost like those whom suffer from paranoid schizophrenia. Line their rooms with foil, wear foil hats or helmets. That's why they are called The tin-foil hat or helmet brigade.

ELISI — August 5, 2011 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Look, folks. Every tiny minutae of attention we give to Mr. Larimer, the less we give to matters-of-consequence.

Elisi might be right. There is always the possibility that he is suffering from mental illness or that his heart and personality is so blackened with irrational hatred, he is out of control. Regardless, he is no longer spewing his written toxins on The Columbian Facebook Forums. For that, I am grateful.

_____________________

What do you think about the recommendation I am seeing on the news today that the President initiate a huge job stimulus bill that is similar to what FDR did in the 30's? Put people to work repairing all the crumbling infrastructure. If the President does make this bold proposal and his opponents block it, the Republicans will have to explain to the American people why unemployment is so acceptable to them.

Every expert I hear says you have to SPEND some money to get the country back to work again.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just took a look at the clown's page. Interesting to note his primary source of news is of course............Fox News! How many that post here fall victim to this faux news agency, and spout the gospels of the hacks they employ. From Sarah to Glenn To Sean to Bill to Huckerbee to Rick to..........every notable RW candidate and nut job fox chooses to message and preen that week.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You are right manthou. We need investment right now. I think it's one reason the GOP took control of the message. In order to make it that much harder to turn our economy around.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think many of these Right Wing Extremists do not have our nations best interest in mind. Unfortunately.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


S and P just downgraded our country's credit rating. I am hearing that this is a huge slap on the wrist to our Congress.

Maybe the obstructionists who are willing to sacrifice our country's financial health to bring down President Obama at all costs will think twice. Ya think?

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe the obstructionists who are willing to sacrifice our country's financial health to bring down President Obama at all costs will think twice. Ya think? manthou — August 5, 2011 at 5:35 p.m

I doubt it, really doubt it. If they were capable of thinking, we would not be where we are right now.
I do, however, totally agree with the recommendation for a huge plan to get us working again. Worked before, seems recommended by leading thinkers, actually for quite a while.

luvithere — August 5, 2011 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 5, 2011 at 5:35 p.m
S&P; is downgrading U.S. debt because the plan doesn't go far enough, they wanted to see cuts of at least 4 trillion. President Obama and the democrats in congress are the obstructionists that risked the countries financial health and caused the downgrade.

frobert — August 5, 2011 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good evening, frobert: I do not agree with your analysis, my basement friend.

All the economist experts say we need to SPEND and INVEST to jump start the economy. We cannot cut so drastically and dramatically. We need to cut gradually.

We will never agree on this issue. But I am glad you are here among us to join in on the discussion.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou...Rachel M. is spending some time on this right now.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 5, 2011 at 6 p.m.

We tried the invest and spend strategy, when Bush and Obama gave billions to their rich friends, and here we are.

The problem with republicans and democrats is they will never cut the programs that impose on the rights of the people. They will go for the programs that they have made the people dependent on.

frobert — August 5, 2011 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


S and P's reason for the downgrade, frobert, is an indictment of the US political dysfunction. It is a slap on the wrist for this bad behavior.

In a crisis, we need both parties to join together. They did not and many Republicans have made it clear: if the economy falters, Obama's chance of re-election falters with it.

So let's make sure the economy falters.

I cannot wait to vote again.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Many forget that 40% of the stimulus package were tax cuts. This is a sad day for America. The rest of the world watches and just shakes it's head. Our president's inability to focus and control the message is much of what got us here. The bully's of the GOP got their way and...what has happened in the last two days?

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner said he got 98% of what he wanted. Does this make 99%???

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Boehner's statement is going to be one of the most viewed in Democratic political ads.

I am watching how our illustrious legislators respond to this. Rather than pointing fingers, maybe they will work together for once. Forever optimistic, I hold on.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- It seems as though the ideological sides involved (genuine or not) won't play well together. If we get any stimulus through this house, how much more of an assault on our liberties and freedoms will they (the republicans) demand. They want to control what we do in our bedrooms and with our bodies. I hope Obama doesn't put these chips on the bargaining table. This is just pathetic and the worst time to have an ineffectual weak leader at the helm bargaining our country away to these corporatists.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The sad thing about the past two weeks is that NONE of the politicians working on the budget were working for the good of the country. They were doing nothing but playing games with each other trying to see who was going to blink first. As far as I'm concerned, they are all a bunch of crooks trying to get theirs and screw everybody else. That goes for you too, Jamie. You are out of there. All you did was play follow the leader and do whatever he said. I truly hope the people of Ohio wake up and smell the coffee in the next election.

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I agree with you. I cannot wait to see what happens in WI next week. It might be a sign of things to come in other states and nationally.

nailingit: Obama is going to have to be willing to put his chances for a second term on the line. I think he is there. He would have to be, after all this. I give the guy credit still.

He will have to come out strong, with Democratic support in the House and Senate. Maybe it is too late, but at least he will go down fighting. His future will always be bright, whether he retains the office or not. However, the country's future depends on our President's ability to kick butt and take names.

I think this will do it. Doesn't mean the Repubs will go along, but they will be placed in the position of having to explain their opposition i light of S and P's slap on the wrist. Put them on the defensive. Let them explain their reasons to the American people.

If there had not been this debt ceiling brinkmanship game, we would not be in this position now.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 5, 2011 at 7:13 p.m

Uh, aren't the children in recess for another four weeks or so?

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 7:13 pm: LOL! Children! Most of the little ones I know learn how to get along with each other better.....

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I wonder if Obama wants a second term. I mean really wants it. To really want it on principle I think he would have started drawing a line some time ago. He hasn't any passion for progressive policy...at least not enough to fight for it..i.e.public option, bush tax cuts, gitmo, derivatives regs., etc.

I don't see that this will be any different. Without vision there's no hope. Without leadership there's no change.

Hillary....save us!!!......:)))

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Everyone is on vacation, as hawkeye reminds us.

When I have a crisis at work or home, I drop everything and rush back. Maybe Congress should get out of their cool pools and put the golf clubs away and get back.

I hear that the S and P downgrade included a strong recommendation for revenue hikes, better known as taxes.

It is gonna get interesting, but at our expense.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They should return manthou and get to work. Those that have their own mind and do so should be remembered at the polls....those who don't likewise. Considering the reason for the downgrade it would most definitely be a step in the right direction.

manthou for Congress!

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! I haven't seen her allen. Good question for her constituents though, what has she done?

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anderson Cooper is interviewing an S and P honcho right now on CNN. Fascinating. His name is John Chambers.

This downgrade, essentially, is a loud and firm b*tch slap for playing games with the debt ceiling. Chambers is talking about raising revenues and letting the Bush tax cuts expire as a solution.

manthou — August 5, 2011 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How soon can they expire? How long did Obama extend them. Maybe they should just cancel them on Monday. I'd vote for that!

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree hawkeye and have been wanting this. Rescind the Bush/Obama tax cuts today!

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This could be the mulligan Presidents get. Obama should admit his mistakes, apologize to the American people and have a big time shake up in his administration. Gear his presidency to progressive goals and become the President he campaigned on in 2008. He does this...he not only does the right thing but saves his presidency in the process. IMHO.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen- Jaime's young and inexperienced. Do you see anything that could change her mind someday? Perhaps some town halls would help. If she would listen to those who would suffer because of the policies she endorses....maybe it would help. I have to think there are some in DC that are grooming her. She's the perfect trojan horse for GOP policies. Young, female, articulate, attractive, hispanic...I wouldn't be surprised to see her on the tube someday and moving higher up the GOP ladder to include of course..an advisory role to Fox news, if they are still around.

nailingit — August 5, 2011 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here is the email I just sent to Jamie. I suggest you all do the same;

You know, it really doesn't matter that you are a freshman in the House, your vote and VOICE both matter and you have FAILED us in Washington State. This bullying that your boss (Boehner) has been involved in is just that. It's nothing but political posturing and school playground bullying and we are sick of it. I'm sure there were plenty of programs that could have been cut without hurting anyone but you people just had to take a stand and puff up and pound on your chests and try to show the country who the boss is. Well I'll tell you who the boss is. It's the voters that are going to kick you and Boehner and all the other idiots out of office come the next election. And then you have the gall to take a five week vacation? Very disappointing indeed.

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, here is the link;

http://herrerabeutler.house.gov/

hawkeye — August 5, 2011 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner and all the other idiots...

Hawkeye,

Good email except the name calling part. When they see that they tend to just dismiss the whole message as venting...

mangoboy — August 6, 2011 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


An S&P; rep was on one of the news programs earlier this morning. Among other comments, one that woke me up was that earning our AAA rating back won't happen right away - this will take time.

Perhaps a round about way of telling us the world financiers don't like the people we're electing these days?

roger — August 6, 2011 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat

Great Song. And some subtle satire there. Who was the last gunslinger we had in town. G. Bush. I don't think we need another simplistic solution for global realities. Its just nostalgia at this point. We sure don't need more middle aged white guys in business suits running the country, though...like Obama.

mangoboy — August 6, 2011 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

Lou certainly is into dancing these days. Last week's column included Mayor Tim's tap dancing skills. Next week the pit, with a link to some Slayer?

roger — August 6, 2011 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

Its probably good the rating was reduced. Its a call to honesty. Contrast that with what happened with all those triple AAA rated derivatives, for example.

mangoboy — August 6, 2011 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

Dirty Politics indeed. That is the status quo. Voting is not going to get the job done I am afraid. Voters cannot vote for someone who looks or talks different, never mind if their ideas have merit. We need a viable third party but Americans are not desperate enough yet, which seems to be the only motivating factor.

mangoboy — August 6, 2011 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mango,

Agreed. But what the guy said came across as a tactfully worded threat, promise, or whatever - continue engaging in nonproductive political gamesmanship and expect the pain to continue. I'm waiting to see how many different ways this gets covered depending on which channel is being watched.

Michael Lewis' The Big Short is a great read - discusses our financial system and what's happened in layman's terms.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There are some legislators who are celebrating this credit downgrade as a victory for "their" side. They want to see the country fail because it presents them with a political opportunity to ride in on a white horse and be the latest and greatest rescuer. What is their plan? I look forward to hearing it.

Who will be appointed to this super committee? That process will be interesting. We will see how serious our legislators are in actually helping the country by who they appoint. And then this Committee needs to cooperate with each other and deliver.

The whole world is watching and we are under a very high-powered microscope.

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I thought Lou's column was great. The harsh reality is politicians are participating in "the art of the dance" while taking us to hell in a handbasket. The "dance" is simply a ploy to be unaccountable and increase chances for re-election. If you don't REALLY say anything definitive, you'll find yourself better covered from criticism. It's much easier to "dance" than face the music when the you-know-what hits the fan.

mrd — August 6, 2011 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd: Here is another problem with politicians: studies show they display a higher level of narcissistic personality traits. While some of these traits can be considered positive (strong leadership and command of authority), most traits are negative in that self-love and self-promotion trumps all else. Narcissists have great difficulty in caring for anyone else but themselves.

Why do we expect them to care for the citizens who put them in office?

Wouldn't it be great to see a personality profile (like the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory) on everyone who runs for office?

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Is there anyone in the game who can play the role of great rescuer? I'm saying 'No' - both sides have stunk the place up. The supercommittee will be interesting to watch. The only way I can see it working is to find enough people who'll compromise - which probably means going back to the old way of doing business and pretending the past year never happened.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou

Its kind of scary for the rest of the world to have America with so much influence, I would imagine. Where will the blind elephant turn next, who will get trampled?

American influence will slowly begin to fade from a geopolitical perspective. All we will have left to peddle will be the American Dream and Made in America Brands- Hollywood, Facebook, Disneyland, and Coca Cola, etc...

mangoboy — August 6, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL Manthou. Can you imagine some of the sub scores on the MMPI for a few of them? What about the old 16PF (if I remember name correctly). Often used for employment, has a great scale on there for authoritarianism.

luvithere — August 6, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


lovithere: LOL, indeed! I imagine the F scale would show that many are "faking good", as well.

Police officers and fire fighter candidates have to endure personality testing. Let's initiate a law that requires it for those who run for political office.

I am not joking. :)

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No, I actually agree that such a test is appropriate for our dear politicians. Lots of workers have to take them, you are right. Why not people in high office? of course, given their shenanigans, most of them would refuse....call tests biased etc. Boy, if general public would see their leaders' scores, all hell would break lose.

luvithere — August 6, 2011 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy @ 8 am: You make a scary-smart point! America will become a characature of products and entertainment. What a legacy for our children and grandchildren.

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: We really do need to ask ourselves: Why in the world does this person want this legislative position? Public service for self-promotion?

I am becoming very cynical and suspicious of anyone who chooses to run for office today. It is such a difficult job in a contentious, divisive climate that those who are well-balanced and altruistic opt out of the madness.

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Dust off your copy of Don Quixote and look for the answer to your 8:23 post.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 6, 2011 at 8:23 a.m.

I know why I want to serve, it's the retirement! If I only speak up when they ask me questions and vote whatever the Speaker votes, I can hide myself and then get voted out after my first term and then move to Florida or someplace they don't know me and live a good life for free.

Whoa, was I channeling Jamie, that was weird!

hawkeye — August 6, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


IGTNT: Six to remember +*
bySandy

Tonight, we have six to remember. Three were soldiers with the Oklahoma National Guard and three were Marines. All were killed in Afghanistan. Both leave behind heartbroken families and friends. Please take a moment to read about their lives and dedication.
So far in 2011, 243 American troops have been killed in Afghanistan. Since 2001, there have been 1689 American troops killed in Afghanistan. Since 2003, there have been 4474 American troops killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom and 46 killed in Operation New Dawn. Please take a moment to honor their sacrifice.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/05/1002390/-IGTNT:-Six-to-remember-

mr_basil_seal — August 6, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger and hawkeye: :D

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Costs of War - Part Two. Stop the Madness+*
byBigAlinWashStFollow

A couple weeks ago I posted a diary summarizing part of a new study, "Costs of War" led by Prof. Neta Crawford of Boston University and Prof Catherine Lutz from Brown University with contributions from a significant number of noted economists, anthropologists, lawyers and political scientists.

The study outlined the economic, social, political, human, and environmental costs of the wars over the last ten years. The authors admitted they felt they had yet to examine the total costs after a full year of study.

The study group estimated the monetary costs to the United States at an admittedly conservative $4.3 trillion. There have been other studies that have estimated the cost at least that high. The United States has spent well over $10 trillion on military, security and intelligence programs and war in the last ten years. The debt has been caused by war and the insane gambling allowed on Wall Street and in the Too Big to Fail Banks.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/06/1001253/-The-Costs-of-WarPart-TwoStop-the-Madness

I think both of these would be appropriate replies to Lou's 'eating cheesecake' or the C's 'let's go on a ride at the fair' articles.....

mr_basil_seal — August 6, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_Basil...and so many lives lost in the Seal chopper that went down last night. Let's end the madness! We have so many indisputable reasons for doing so.

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I quite get it that the debt issue is big and in our face.

I quite get it that the unemployment issue is big and in our face.

I quite get it that we have a government that is approaching being dysfunctional.

But I don't get it that the local newspaper of record drops all coverage of our wars.

But I don't get it that the local newspaper of record relegates coverage of environmental issues to an article on raising the mileage by 2025.

But I don't get it that the local newspaper of record doesn't have even an occasional 'Press Talk' about actual national issues that have impacts locally. Or local actions that relate to national impacts.

mr_basil_seal — August 6, 2011 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 6, 2011 at 9:44 a.m.

That would mean going outside and getting in a car and driving somewhere to get real information. Instead of sitting in the office and copying whatever the AP reports or listening to the police radios and then waiting for the cops to call in their reports.

In short, it would take effort and journalistic integrity.

hawkeye — August 6, 2011 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Did you see that 20 members of seal team 6 that killed Bin Laden died today in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan?

This is absolutely horrible news and makes me sick to my stomach.

Woosker — August 6, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Basil,

One could write a book answering your 9:34 post questioning The Columbian's content.

Printing most national news is a waste of space - we see it on TV, follow up with internet searches if we want more detail, and it's old news when the paper hits the street.

The Columbian downsized under bankruptcy a few years back. I sort of recall an editorial (or something) saying they'd focus on local news because the people want to know the nice things going on around here - not the big bad world outside. Which would explain, in part, why we rarely see editorials like what you're looking for.

The Columbian has an agenda - to form local opinion in favor of projects, etc, that will move toward the vision ICC, et al, have for Vancouver. Much of rural Clark County is opposed to this vision - no desire to look like P'Town. Downtown Vancouver is fairly liberal, while unincorporated/rural Clark is quite conservative. The Columbian's position here is obvious - you need look no further than Dem politicians are treated as good friends, while Reps are ignored or treated like an idiot. Conservative Clark County has organized and is hitting the liberal agenda from several directions, so The Columbian's fight against them is a full time job.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Part 2 to Basil,

Why should Lou write editorials? He's got dozens of people writing them for him - here and on the facebook side.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil lets also remember and try to help the thousands of troops that have come home wounded.It really hit home for us when our nephew came home with both legs missing above the knee and part of his left hand.There are thousands that are just like him.But we never seem to hear anything about them.They are real people that are in all of our lives.And they have to live with these diabilites for the rest of their lives.

terick — August 6, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Terick, Basil, and others,

What terick says is true - our disabled vets get moved to the background time and again. They've sacrificed for their country and deserve better.

There are numerous programs that have been instituted since the first Desert to assist them with overcoming their disabilities, to include medical support through the VA system and job training programs. Gen Shinseki has done a lot to make the VA more responsive since he took over as director. Organizations such as the DAV are there to assist with finding resources for the vets. Senator Murray and others have repeatedly pushed for retraining programs so disabled vets can lead productive lives. This list can be expanded on - but we need to make sure every vet is aware of and has access to the programs.

A major problem is funding. There are many in D.C. who see the ever rising cost of veteran care as a burden on the taxpayer. Some of our fiscal conservatives are the latest who believe disabled vets should be lumped in with other social programs and put on the budgetary chopping block. In the coming days we need to be especially vigilant - contact your elected Reps, Senators and The President and let them know this is one area that MUST be funded to whatever levels are needed to meet our obligations to these men and women who have given so much.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

My wife can't understand why I watch Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, and others. They are the best comedy on TV these days!! And if there's a better way to wake up at 4 A.M. than having Gretchen staring disapprovingly at the world, I haven't found it.

The world has gone crazy. I watch comedy shows (John Stewart and Stephen Colbert) to get a rational take on current events.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- What do you find comedic about Maddow's show? Gretchen at 0400? OUCH! LOL

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

I totally agree. Birth control is not a women's health issue but Viagra for old guys is because THEY are trying to procreate, RIGHT ???? (S)

hawkeye — August 6, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

I get my REAL news from Stewart. It's the only one that makes sense.

hawkeye — August 6, 2011 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Rachel is occasionally too liberal with some of her views, but usually pretty accurate with her observations. All in all, not bad. I thought she was an Olbermann protege when MSNBC first brought her on, but she's easily surpassed him for content.

It's her whole persona - she's so serious and sincere. I feel like a father being lectured by his daughter when I watch her.

I'll switch and watch her when Hannity gets some of his smarmy guests like Ann Coulter on. Practicing Fox's "fair and balanced" and all that.

One that's starting to become annoying is Mika Brzinski. I like Morning Joe, mainly because they try to run the whole political spectrum and treat all views respectfully. But lately Mika has taken up rolling her eyes in disgust, or whatever, when they have a Teabagger politician on. And Willie Geist - I used to find him fairly boring, but ever since John Stewart did the little routine on Willie giving I forget who the disapproving look, I can't help but laugh at him. Poor guy - he was just starting to get more time and be taken as a serious member of the team, and then that happened.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


John Chambers head of the S&P; on CNN just stated it's a BAD idea to have a balanced budget amendment because it reduces America's flexibility. I'm sure the Baggers will denounce him and everything his institution stands for.

When are we going to dismiss this ridiculous tea party movement for what it is. A well funded band of Corporatists that wish to destroy Government banking regulations.

These poor middle class bastards that follow them...a part of me feels sorry for the lot.

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Re:Face Book photos

Anyone else offended by the nude torso picture posted by Troy Phillips on the AAA Credit Rating article?

A new low for the Columbian.

Excuse me while I go throw up.

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 6, 2011 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


itiswritten....Shocking!!!

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Even worse is the incivility - such mean spirited people - a complete lack of respect being shown toward divergent ideas. There are new people who are trying to voice opinions, but the facebook regulars are shouting them down. Bob Larimer's evil sister (Jessica Bowen) is up to her usual antics. Same goes for Rep Moeller - badmouthing the Teabaggers. They might as well let Bob back on - it can't get much worse.

And then we have Troy, doing a poor imitation of the old Burt Reynolds Playgirl foldout. I don't know him so I can't be certain, but perhaps he's celebrating that Vancouver was recently recognized as being one of the most gay friendly towns?

That was wrong of me. I apologize. We usually keep higher standards here.

roger — August 6, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal



When are we going to dismiss this ridiculous tea party movement for what it is. A well funded band of Corporatists that wish to destroy Government banking regulations.

if the baggers think economic recovery is going to happen by slashing domestic federal spending, they're sadly mistaken. Removing billions of dollars from a depressed economy is economic suicide. wait for a growing economy to increase revenues and then start cutting. right now, go after the money where it is-raise taxes on the wealthy. eliminate or raise the cap on SS. raise the medicare contribution rate gradually. slash, and I mean slash, the bloated defense budget when the economy picks up. a lot of defense dollars provide jobs at Boeing, Precision Castparts, etc. don't want to throttle back there, yet.

take wall street to the task. it has morphed from being a source for start-up capital for companies to a glorified casino for investment banks and the rich. reel it in.

mrd — August 6, 2011 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit,

I think you are my neighbor..

Troy is, as stated by roger, a poor imitation, of something.

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 6, 2011 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


itiswritten- Sorry for your neighbor situation itiswritten. I assure you I am not he! LOL

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

I've been thinking about your 3:17 post that notes S&P; thinks a balanced budget amendment is bad because it reduces our government's flexibility. I can recognize this as a return to Keynesian economic theory (which I thought went out of favor years ago), but beyond that I'm going to have to plead ignorance. (I guess I should have sat through a few of my macroeconomics classes way back when instead of just showing up for exams. Oh well.) And I remember something about Alan Greenspan and Objectivism, apparently learned from Ayn Rand herself. Or something like that. I mainly recall his keeping our economy on a fairly even flow by tweaking the prime rate all those years. (That and his suddenly getting stupid by saying he didn't see the subprime mortgage crash coming - but that's a side track.)

ANYHOW, Mr. Basil noted earlier that The Columbian rarely puts out editorials covering real world issues. Maybe the Business editor, Ms. Courtney Sherwood, could put something together that explains this topic in simple terms?

roger — August 6, 2011 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Ahhh shucks, are you sure?

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 6, 2011 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jaime HB is on TV being interviewed on KGW Straight Talk. Right now.

manthou — August 6, 2011 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger *Bob Larimer's evil sister (Jessica Bowen) is up to her usual antics*

I'd say more a Lew W. clone; she drops into insults slower than Bob, but can't bring a piece of evidence to backup her claims.

And her posts come right out of freep / Fox, not quite the thin air that Bob's 'connections' come from.

mr_basil_seal — August 6, 2011 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal



roger- A great idea for the Business Editor! Even better if she set aside some time in advance and allowed some Q&A; from the basement. She most likely could give us perspective and deeper insight on this topic. If I'm understanding correctly, the Keynesian theory has been at the center of America's economic policies for quite some time. More Dems Keynesian and Republicans supply side I believe. Although Tax hikes in good times to curb inflation hasn't been too prevalent, but I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. There are those who honestly believe taxation is evil and punishes the rich rather than understanding it's critical to maintaining our societal way of life IMHO. There was a high minded yet "small minded" post recently that stated progressives resent the rich. It's boxed in indoctrinated thinking in which absurdities in thought continue. Fox news has played a huge part in shaping public opinion against taxation to steroidal levels. I'm not sure everyone understands that bridges, roads, schools, transportation, safety inspectors, etc. don't magically appear.

One theory I believe which has been proved to a certainty, in my life time before my very eyes, is that tax breaks don't pay for themselves and the best part of trickle down economics ran down Ronnies.....well, anyway :))

Thank you for your thoughtful posts roger. Greenspan does seem to be a contradiction of sorts. I've seen him on Meet The Press a couple times this last year and he is one of the few from the Bush days calling for more revenue. It's amusing to hear GOP leaders extol the virtue of Ronald Reagan when it suits their needs. But the needs are running out. Reagan raised taxes eleven times, the debt ceiling 18 times, while growing our deficit more than anyone in our history at the time. Reagan would almost be considered a liberal nowadays.

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 6, 2011 at 5:24 p.m.

I think that is what I was trying to say.....

Columbian generated original writing about local side of national issues. The vets in SW WA, what local gardeners and farmers are doing in reaction to environmental issues, etc.

There were three local berry farms that got fined for labor (6 & 9 yr old kids) and min. wage issues. The article was mostly a copy paste of the the DOL press release. No mention of any effort to interview the farms, no interviews with workers, no reaction at local stores.....

Or what about interviews with local stock / money managers ?

But we get an article about cheesecake contests.....

mr_basil_seal — August 6, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WOW, The "C" is really in love with Jamie. Two stories in two days.....

Ain't she great!

hawkeye — August 6, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- There is good journalistic reasoning behind delivering these two stories.

She looks much better in the second story than the first.

nailingit — August 6, 2011 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There's an LTE today from a Lewis and Clark Law School prof who reiterates what Oregon reviews showed recently - that the CRC's Draft EIS is based on outdated and faulty data when it comes to traffic pattern predictions. The EIS has overestimated use, and consequently underestimated tolling revenues by as much as 1/2 billion dollars. But the powers that be are saying damn the facts - full speed ahead!!

Seeing as how one of the outcomes we've been told to expect from our credit downgrade is a rise in the cost of borrowing (higher interest rates), are we going to see a recalculation of the cost of the CRC project? Saying this downgrade will just be short term is the wrong answer - recent examples say reclaiming an AAA rating can take years and even decades. And it seems Moodys is also looking cross-eyed at us....

I'm all for projects with a demonstrable local economic impact, such as new rail lines into the Port's industrial zone. I can even buy into Madore's 192nd Ave bridge - it won't alleviate commuter traffic that much, but it should speed up the trucking flow to the east side and further boost the commercial development there.

But I can't buy the criticality of the I5 bridge project. There are minor improvements to commercial traffic flow that may result, but the main reasons for this keep getting back to bringing light rail to Vancouver and because commuters don't like waiting for bridge lifts. Both are almost entirely personal convenience based reasons that we can't afford. And the argument that jobs will be created doesn't hold either - these will be mostly temporary jobs that will be filled by people coming from elsewhere. Yes they'll spend money and rent here, but even this will just be a temporary boost.

roger — August 7, 2011 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Reference The Columbian's article on the cute little piglets at the fair - I have one question.

Dry rub ribs or kalua pig?

roger — August 7, 2011 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Jaime Herrera article is interesting reading. It looks like the young lady is slowly learning the reality of our political system - you can't always get what you want. The article says that while mostly lockstep with the Boehner agenda (wise on her part if she wants a political future), she's made a couple of votes based on local needs. And she did vote for the "great compromise" that the Teabaggers are railing at her for now.

She just may win reelection. As a facebook poster notes, Jaime's got the extremists from both sides of the spectrum hating on her - she must be doing something right. When you look at the alternative - Washington State's liberal wing of the Democratic party as represented by Maria Cantwell, Jim Moeller and others - I may find myself voting for her. And if her opponent is County Commissioner Stuart, as the article suggests - has he done much beyond posturing and waffling on such projects as the CRC and the BPA I5 Corridor?

roger — August 7, 2011 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen-

It seems Lou's columns, prior to the FB change, usually picked up a couple dozen comments the first day. It now has nine, five of which are his. I certainly hope greater participation wasn't one of the goals of the FB format. But there is an upside, he should have time to respond to each comment as there are so few.

mrd — August 7, 2011 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I will vote for her again. No! Way! will I vote for Stuart or Boldt for any seat agin... We need to get rid of those two and find some new blood..IMHO...

On another note something this morning got my blood boiling as I saw a newer mercedes pull into the gas station so I had to ask the Male driver; So how do you like living in Vancouver? See he had Oregon Plates... The mans young son quipped up and said we've lived here for 5 years at least and his dad said to him to be quiet.. So after a few minutes I said wow that long, so how long have you had this nice car and the boy quipped up again and said his dad bought it for his wife's birthday a couple years ago... See the dad had gone inside so the boy probably twelve had his window down and easily let that slip out... Why don't we focus on these people in our local area where it can make a difference, i'm sure we all have them in our neighborhood..

stikoutking — August 7, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd @ 8:15 am: Good observations. I also note that it has been weeks since Lou B has commented on our subterranean forum! That either means he is writing us off as illegitimate or he is intimidated.

I think we are creating a valuable discussion community here that self-monitors better than it ever has. Some very good questions are being raised. Interesting and timely information is shared.

Oh, I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall during editorial meetings!

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


People...secure your children...this is creepy!

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


stikoutking: I am disturbed by the license plates scofflaws, too. Next time, make sure you jot the license plates down and report it on the WSP website: http://www.wsp.wa.gov/crime/licfraud.php

I watched a news report this morning about how luxury items like Mercedes and jewelry are flying off the showroom floors and store shelves lately. The rich are buying. The top 20 percent account for 60 percent of the spending now.

Someone has to stimulate the economy, so I welcome their bucks. I just want them to pay the license fees and fair share of taxes, too! :)

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 8:43 am: Please explain, expand, clarify. To what do you refer?

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Sometimes the weekday ride for veterans traveling in a 12-passenger van from Eugene to the Veterans Administration’s Roseburg Medical Center is purely miserable. Sometimes it’s a milk run that drags on with stops at Creswell, Cottage Grove, Curtain, Drain, Yoncalla, Rice Hill and Sutherlin.

Occasionally, there are “barfers and bladder problems,” volunteer driver Ray Adams said. At the end of those runs, Adams drives the van’s front tires up onto a curb, opens the rear double doors and hoses out the van."

(Eugene Register Guard)

And will this intolerable situation change at all when the Health Care Reform Act is fully implemented?

The country desperately needs a single payer BASIC health insurance plan for ALL Americans that can be used at any medical facility.

This is not negotiable!!!

mangoboy — August 7, 2011 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I was speaking to stickoutking's Q&A; of someone with out of town plates, then grilling a child for more answers while the parent isn't around. Seems excessive as well as obsessive...and creepy. If I was walking back to my car at the gas station, and someone was quizzing my young daughter as to where I live, how long and about my wife no doubt this would be a huge problem for me and possibly for this gentlemen leaving the gas station in the same physical shape he was in when he first arrived!

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and if I knew at the time his choice of anonymous names was stickoutking, call an ambulance!

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Ah hah! I'm slow-to-wake this morning. Thanks for the clarification.

The reason I posted WSP's website is to encourage stickoutking to let the pros do the investigation.

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


....you don't see my point stickoutking? Goldie?

No need to get violent with your words. If you can't see what is wrong .....

Peace. Please...quit approaching young children and getting personal information. If you don't see what is wrong with this then I don't know what to say...ask "goldie" I guess...

Don't some of you remember having kids and being concerned for their safety? Amazing stuff in the basement at times.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Meet the Press this morning was interesting. When Alan Greenspan was asked by David Gregory how successful he thinks this yet-appointed Super Committee will be in reaching a viable compromise, Greenspan responded that the chances for success are low.

Why?

Since the Committee will be evenly divided among both parties, it will take ONE person on either side to move to the other side. That action is unpalatable to either side.

But, if I were betting based on recent past behavior, I'd place my money on a Democrat folding.

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the post about pros manthou. I don't think stickoutking is understanding my point.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 10:11.....The Republicans are thinking the same thing...and no doubt your assessment will be true. Laurence O'Donnell last week was saying those that signed Grover's pledge should be disqualified from the super12. It only makes sense. Anyone who signed should publicly renounce their position on taxes if they are at the table. I watched Meet the Press also. I'm sure glad Rachel was sitting in and offered her perspective.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail it?

Boys, boys, boys... would you hit me a beautiful lady like me too??
By your comment it would look like you were the agressor Liberal, thinking the worst, not hoping for the best in your fellow man.. He just said if you came at him , he might lay you down quietly...

BTW, Your screen name screems many things, but thats not what I think of at first thought, see thats not how I'm wired.. Some of us right side thinkers have calm demeanors...Lets see what happens tomorrow when the market rallies...

rtsidethinker — August 7, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...if I came at him? Please don't keep this silliness brewing. It seems like stickoutking, rtsidethinker and itiswritten share quite a few commonalities in their writing. stick I believes weaves the common thread, even with the intended misspells from rt...this "screems" of another poster........sigh

How about taking a real vacation?

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

RE your post @ 740am

**LMOA**

I vote for kalua pig. I'll help dig the **imu**

pdxtech91 — August 7, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This financial scare is a fantastic opportunity for someone or some persons to step up as a leader in the US now.

The next few weeks will give me so much good information about who gets my vote in any election which I am qualified to participate.

We all know that there is plenty of blame to be shared. So anyone who continues to finger point and spew forth tired sound bites is out. Unproductive complaining is not going to woo me.

Those who roll up their sleeves and come up with some evidence-based solutions and bring both parties along with them to collaborate on solving these complex problems will be the leader(s) to choose.

It is kind of an exciting time, so I am waiting to see who rises to the top. It is wide open now.

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This could be the time when our country's political groups splinter and we have a genuine forming of viable party's in which to choose from. A very good thing in my opinion and having better options is something I've wished for quite some time. It's always been a conundrum how the corporatist bank deregulating "rugged individualists" shills have teamed up with God fearing, bible thumping, isolationists for so many years...time for the split. And progressives splintering from the centrist to right Republican/Democratic party that our current President is espousing.

Might be time for some real hope and change.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, do my eyes deceive me??? Am I actually reading comments by you which show suspicion of other posters possibly being all in the same person??? That sure sounds like someone I know who used to do the same thing in the past - (me). You make me laugh, my friend. If I could stand face to face with you...with my hand on the Holy Bible in front of one of our fine judges here in Clark County, I would say to you straightforward and honestly that I am not posting as anybody else on the forum.

Now...as far as *MY* vacation is concerned - it's been a great vacation thus far with this being the first post since the 2nd on the August 1-7 forum. I did peek in a couple of times on the Back Fence and throw in a couple of comments while I had the chance, no lie there either, my friend. Sorry to break your heart though..I won't be near the computer for the next few days or so...so I'm sure you will be heartbroken since I won't be giving the C the time of day.

I see you been a busy little "individual." At least it's been...um...interesting reading!!! Keep up the job, Nailingit. I look forward to reading the "Funnies" once I return.

Buh Bye!!

goldenoldie — August 7, 2011 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HEY Crazytrain!!! Welcome Back!!!

..

Oh, one more thing for nailingit before I sign off (just checked in on the Back Fence then checked back here one more time before heading out)...thanks for the compliment, you know...the one whose name you put right next to mine with a question mark. Who was it??? Oh yeah...Stickoutking at 10:10 this morning. I never thought I'd see the day that you would throw out a compliment like that to me.

How sweet...you old softie!!!

goldenoldie — August 7, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sigh.......

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


stickoutking used your name in his post. That was what I was referring to.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You're just so gosh darned cute when you've gotten caught with your hand in the cookie jar, nailingit. I can almost see you blushing in your avatar! Now I really, really have to go now. It's been interesting. Enjoy your cookie!!!

Keep smiling!!!

goldenoldie — August 7, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sigh......."Think I'll go join Goldie"...strikeoutking @ 10:01...is this the cookie jar?!? LOL!

Give it a rest goldenoldie.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting video, alleycat. Ya' gotta love the Portland youthful activism. Creative. Powerful. Puts my 60's hippie sit-ins to shame.

Thanks for sharing. Thanks for the brain spark.

manthou — August 7, 2011 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat,

I found just the grassroots movement for you. You'll have to resurrect them and return to their late 60's/70's focus, however. The following is a Wiki extract.

The Yippie "New Nation" concept called for the creation of alternative, counterculture institutions (food co-ops, underground newspapers, free clinics, etc.). Yippies believed these cooperative institutions and a radicalized hippie culture would spread until they supplanted the existing system. "We are a people. We are a new nation," YIP's New Nation Statement said of the burgeoning hippie movement. "We want everyone to control their own life and to care for one another... We cannot tolerate attitudes, institutions, and machines whose purpose is the destruction of life, the accumulation of profit."

They also smoked a lot of dope. Abby Hoffman was particularly entertaining - he refused to take anything seriously. I met him a few times, to include at his '67 Pentagon levitation and the 1976 Bicentennial celebration that was crawling the East Coast from D.C. to NYC.

roger — August 7, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A very interesting AP article was posted to the Northwest page about 1/2 hour ago. Oregon Rep DeFazio is pissed off because he says the budget slashing the Reps want will just about kill getting the fed's portion of the CRC project. He even goes as far as to blame Pres Obama for caving to the Repubs. The article goes on to point out that neither Oregon nor Washington know where their cost shares will come from. It repeats the recent info that Oregon's economists confirm the draft EIC underestimates traffic projections (to the tune of over 1/2 billion in tolls). It even notes the strong local opposition to tolling and light rail. (Gee, no longer a small minority of naysayers and fix nothing types!)

It will be quite interesting to see how The Columbian addresses this.

roger — August 7, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 7, 2011 at 4:09 p.m

Did you bother to read this one also?

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/au...

ELISI — August 7, 2011 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

I wrote my 7:33 AM post after reading it.

I looked Buchele up, and it appears he's an environmental attorney - whatever that may be. What I'd really like to know from that aspect is why all the local environmental groups are against the project, but our own Sierra Club member Mr. Pat Campbell is for it?

roger — August 7, 2011 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 7, 2011 at 5:07 p.m

Very good question Roger. Maybe Lou ought to ask him why..

ELISI — August 7, 2011 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat- Great idea! I'll be happy to volunteer and roll up my sleeves for a cause like this if you should need some assistance.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat,

Hey - no insult was intended; hopefully you didn't take it that way. You talk about caring for your fellow man, but at the same time like to talk about a wilder side. I suspect the Yippie movement - back before they degenerated to being little more than a pro-legalization group - would have been a perfect fit. I thought their Theater of the Absurd was the greatest thing going. Everyone else was so damned serious, and those guys wanted to mix politics and fun.

roger — August 7, 2011 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This could be the time when our country's political groups splinter and we have a genuine forming of viable party's in which to choose from. (nailingit 1:27)

Or just possibly not...or maybe they will just meld back together like the molten metal droid opponent of the Terminator...

Because they realize they actually have the same goal of a stable financial system that allows each of them to keep looting it at will. Don't kill that golden goose...

A third party based on universal human rights of freedom, civil liberties, basic health care, nutrition, education and multiculturalism might have to wait for another 100 years. But its never too soon have a plan ready for the next generation.

mangoboy — August 7, 2011 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - August 7, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.

Take a chill pill, bud. I was just teasin' you. Sheesh!!! Maybe YOU need a vacation.

..
Hey folks, I know I could share this on the CRC forum, but I thought it would be more noticed here. Looks like an interesting development in the saga of the Columbia River Crossing in our midst. Could it be the officials are finally listening to reason now that the federal funding might not be as available as they first thought??? Po' little choo choo might not come to Vancouver as soon as they'd like. Maybe Mayor Leavitt had thought the same thing and that's why he was pushing for a later date for funding for light rail maintenance and operations, knowing what was coming up in DC. If the deal falls through...C-Tran will have to think serious second thoughts about their second ballot measure as well. I guess we'll just have to keep abreast of the situation, huh!

Well, I'm outta here again for a few days, folks. Take care of yourselves...and go easy on Nalingit, would ya??? He's having a hard time dealing with us...um...troublemakers. Yeah, that's what we are...troublemakers. (wink, wink)

again Nailingit...just teasing.

goldenoldie — August 7, 2011 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy @ 7:37 LOL...I can see it now..John doggett, Rick Perry, Michele Bachman, Barack Obama and Joe Biden...melding into a giant gold bar to be auctioned off to fund the Beck/Palin PAC in order to overthrow the pre-cursed anti-Chist Oprah Win/Free World takeover. A Socialistic/Communistic/Fascismistic/Capitalistic/ bombastic assault against the heroistic condesationalistic and hedonistic Ed Asner thought processes.

nailingit — August 7, 2011 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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