Open Forum, Aug. 8-14

Published:

 

Most-read stories on Columbian.com for the week of July 31:

No. 1) Beacock Music founder killed in cycling accident

No. 2) Increase in silver prices may turn consumers into metal detectors

No. 3) Man found dead outside burning house

No. 4) Hound sniffs out cougar in tree near VA hospital

No. 5) Several in custody following downtown meth bust

The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply.

Only Columbian staff members can create new forum threads.

Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor Libby Tucker, libby.tucker@columbian.com, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski, matt.wastradowski@columbian.com.


449 comments

Comments

Who was it yesterday in last week's Forum that predicted a stock market rally today?

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal




Got to give you credit Alleycat for calling it....you can laugh all the way to the bank.
I went the other way, assuming with solid corporate profits, unemployment rate bad but not worsening significantly, and an inevitable deal on the debt, markets would get a slight bounce.
I really underestimated the ability of the Congress to screw up, which is kind of hard to do.
Not sure what "tools" the Fed still has in its tool bag to turn things around. I think invading the Cayman Islands and recovering stolen money might be a good start!

mangoboy — August 8, 2011 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat: It was rtsidethinker:

"Some of us right side thinkers have calm demeanors...Lets see what happens tomorrow when the market rallies...

rtsidethinker — August 7, 2011 at 11:09 a.m."

________________________________________________________

There is something to be said in maintaining an air of positivism. I worry about the power of giving so much attention to doom and gloom.

Let's hope rtsidethinker's prediction is correct.....

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


However, I think rtsidethinker's motivation for the comment above was less "cheerleader" and more "gotcha" to those he/she sees as leftsidethinkers here. :)

I could be wrong.

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As for Obama being MIA, alleycat. My thoughts, too. He is letting Geitner take the lead, when I wish he had been by Geitner's side when he made that conference call yesterday to the G7 leaders.

Like I said yesterday, I am waiting and watching to see whose leadership cream rises to the top in the next few weeks. It still can be our President. But it is a wide open opportunity now for anyone with some courage, good ideas and confidence.

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The whole thing is a crap shoot. As long as the whole economy is based on speculation instead of REAL costs, there will not be any kind of stability.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Huh.
I was hoping to read the comments to Leonard Pitts' _NAACP's sober stand on Drug War_ this morning. I can't seem to find the column here in the e-version.
*Shrug*

Drift — August 8, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


....anyone seen Barack around? I would expect a press conference this week on the Democrats jobs plan. Current bills that have been tabled in the House could be enacted and put a significant number of people to work. Congress needs to get their asses back to the table, God knows I've worked my share of overtime in my life...these guys can't even put in 40.

Our president needs to lead and get these guys back on the clock.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Hi kids, just got mail!***

August 8, 2011

Thank you for taking the time to contact me. It's good to hear from you.

Your ideas, comments, and questions help make possible my goal of leading a House of Representatives that listens and reflects the will of the American people. That's why I'd like to ask you to keep speaking out by:
• Visiting Speaker.gov to sign up for email updates on issues that concern you;
• Offering your solutions and engaging other Americans on the challenges facing our country at AmericaSpeakingOut.com;
• Joining the conversation on Facebook.com/OfficeofSpeakerBoehner/; and
• Connecting with my office on Twitter.com/SpeakerBoehner/.

I made a Pledge to America to focus on removing government barriers to private-sector job creation and economic growth - that includes cutting spending to help end the uncertainty facing job creators; repealing the job-crushing health care law and replacing it with common sense reforms that lower costs; reining in excessive regulations; and promoting an American Energy Initiative that increases energy production to create jobs and lower energy prices. I also pledged to lead an effort to reform Congress and rebuild the bonds of trust between the American people and their representatives in Washington. I hope you'll stay engaged and keep me updated on your thoughts as we work to keep this pledge.

Thank you again for contacting me and please stay in touch.

Sincerely,

John Boehner
Speaker of the House
Sign up for The Speaker's E-Newsletter!

***I'm so stoked right now, could be time to......***

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder if John's in the clubhouse or he's gonna shoot another 18.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


He's out shooting another 18 with Obama.

Seems all of them are in hiding. Just checked Obama's schedule for the day. Briefing, at 10 am then nothing until later today when he gives one of his DNC pep talks at a private residence, at 6:40pm then onto St. Regis Hotel in DC for another DNC pep talk at 7:40 pm.

ELISI — August 8, 2011 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


President Obama is scheduled to speak in about 10 minutes on the economy. That is 1 pm Eastern time.

Fire up the boob tubes, friends!

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, that was fun. I've been in there for, what, 40 minutes. Got a lot read, comics, business, living section...... That email I got from Boehner really "helped" me along. What inspiration.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Delayed until 1:30

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I just heard it got pushed back till 11:30 plus. Sounds like another last minute lurch.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama and Boehner must be in sudden death back on the eighteenth! Exciting!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I just sent Mr. Boehner an email, hawkeye, asking him to get his colleagues back to DC now. Next will be the same email to my senators and congresswoman.

As nailingit points out: we all work overtime in our jobs when crises happen. What better qualifies as a crisis right now? Sheesh.

Donald Trump is being interviewed on CNN and says he would consider running as an Independent if the Repubs don't produce a viable candidate in 2012. That, or Treasury Secretary. :)

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


:))....Thank you Donald! I feel better now that we have a safety net! :))

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner wins the bet! Obama has to cave to Republican demands once again! I wonder if that's what really happens...that they bet America's future on a game. Sounds like unregulated derivatives trading.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I replied to his as well calling for him to end the Bush tax cuts, end the oil company subsidies and get everyone back to congress to get to work. They have no right messing with the economy and then take a vacation. These people have a responsibility to the country to fix this thing and fix it now!

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I was amused at the level of deference I saw extended to Donald Trump by the CNN reporters today. Did anyone else see that spectacle? They were all rapid-firing questions at him eagerly, as if they were speaking to a savior. They were clamoring to get in line for their question and then hanging on every word.

We are all so hungry for some leadership, that we are willing to listen to any and all ideas. I guess that is not such a bad place to be at this point.

Isn't that what brainstorming is?

The Donald was lapping it up. I give him credit, though. When he pointed a finger, he included Bush. That was the extent of the blame.

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Donald usually holds his cards close to the vest. He will give a little piece of info to whet the appetite and then pull back when it comes to more info. He is a master when it comes to playing to the camera so I really don't take too much of what he says as gospel.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I caught a few minutes of it and couldn't take it anymore :)). It seemed to me Wolf kept baiting and letting him speak, longingly wanting the Donald to say something stupid and controversial to get a ratings bump later. CNN seems to be hanging by a thread in some cases. Anyway that's the way it came across to me.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Did he wake up??? Tax reform and public option??? Job programs??? Continued payroll tax cut??? Unemployment Insurance extended??? Infrastructure shore up??? He sounds determined.

Did he wake up???

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One can only hope, nailingit. :)

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I believe it was Morning Joe that had an S&P; rep on this morning. They were talking about the $2 Trillion "mistake" S&P; made and whether it mattered. What got my attention was his comment that if we don't get our financial house under control, we may find our rating being reduced even further in about 6 months or so.

Meanwhile, Pres Obama says reduce away - the world still sees us as Triple A.

roger — August 8, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


are we *sure* he's not an al queda plant ?

DeeLittle — August 8, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's one thing to pile on but.......DeeLittle's comment got me thinking though. I wouldn't be surprised if the right resurrected the birther movement once again. They will do all they can to kick this president when he's down.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Intel announced a few days ago of 5th consecutive record breaking profits. $13.2 billion last quarter alone.

Wonder how much in taxes they have paid, if any.

ELISI — August 8, 2011 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just read two posts on the face book side about the S P downgrade.Go over and read them.They both make more sense than anything I have read or heard on any media.I don't understand how us common folks know how to fix things and the ones we elect seem to be cluelss from both parties.

terick — August 8, 2011 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-

my thinking was that finally we will see some real action taking place.. you know when your back is up against the wall, Americans have always found a way to get ur done... I watched the Prez's speach this morning, same ol rhetoric bla , bla bla, eceryone else's fault, never did he take full responsibility.. Not that is was his "full" fault but to say hey we need to change the way were doing things and this is what I'm proposing.. Nope just the same ol stuff..

A little take away.. we have "some" very hard working citizens, Were still AAA in the minds of the rest of the world and "we've excepted all this reform with Grace".. He never mentioned once that he or his own party or even the repulicans were working on anything to get our country moving... What a joke our polictical leaders have become.. No one out there with the "Ba$$$lls to speak up and become a leader. No wonder we are where we are...

rtsidethinker — August 8, 2011 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker: I hope we start seeing some action. I was hoping that President Obama would call legislators back to work. It would go a long way to see them all roll up their sleeves and start to work together.

Here is my dream fantasy: the legislators and President all get together, hold a big press conference, accept responsibility for acting like children, apologize, and make a new pledge to work together to solve this growing mess and lack of confidence.

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default" said Greenspan on NBC's Meet the Press

LOL LOL For real Mr Greenspan?? Print more money?? LOL
What a great way to usher in a society where everyone is dependent upon the government to live. Just print more money! Wait, didn't the Russians do that back in the late 80's too??

ELISI — August 8, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Part of the problem in 2010, and many of us on the left pointed it out at the time, was to have a main thought of anarchy when it came to voting. "Throw the bums" out was the mantra, in particular with the Baggers. If we continue to blur the lines of responsibility when it comes to the debt ceiling negotiations, how we accrued this debt over the last 10 years, as well as what party is clearly impeding America's process and progress by insisting on ZERO revenue, flying in the face of economists worldwide, we'll continue this farce. The Dems and RePubs are both culpable to some degree, but let's not leave out the degree and the nuances of targeted issues. The Republicans refusal to add revenue kicked this off, no ifs ands or buts. Obama's bargaining acumen is that of a jackass.

As Boehner pridefully stated...he got 98% percent of what he negotiated for on behalf of the Republican party.

Let's vote smarter come election time.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat- Don't bail on us yet!! Long live the cat!!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in response to a question about Las Vegas real estate.

"The guy [Obama] keeps making speeches about redistribution, and maybe we ought to do something to businesses that don't invest or hold too much money," Wynn said. "We haven't heard that kind of talk except from pure socialists."

Wynn described himself as a Democratic businessman, and supporter of Harry Reid, before adding that, "I support Democrats and Republicans."

Home Depot founder Bernie Marcus told Investors Business Daily in an interview yesterday the president hasn’t the faintest idea of how jobs are created, but businessmen are intimidated into silence about the administration’s faulty policies. According to Marcus:

They are frightened to death — frightened that they will have the IRS or SEC on them. In my 50 years in business, I have never seen executives of major companies who were more intimidated by an administration.

He claims were he starting out today, Home Depot would not have succeeded primarily because of “stifling” regulations that are an impediment to small businesses.

His speeches are wonderful. His output is absolutely, incredibly bad. As he speaks about cutting out regulations, they are now producing thousands of pages of new ones. With just Obamacare by itself, you have a 2,000 page bill that’s probably going end up being 150,000 pages of regulations.

Woosker — August 8, 2011 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker, if you really want people to take you seriously, you need to quit calling "the health care bill" Obamacare!

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's being reported that Rick Perry is throwing his cowboy hat in the ring! Praise the Lord!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wisconsin is voting tomorrow. Good luck Dems!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - I did not call it Obamacare. That was not my quote. That is the quote from the Home Depot founder.

Woosker — August 8, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 12:09 p.m.

Atty. Orly Taitz to Serve Court Subpoena at Hawaii Department of Health on August 8

http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/08/06/atty-orly-taitz-to-serve-court-subpoena-at-hawaii-department-of-health-on-august-8/

mr_basil_seal — August 8, 2011 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This could make a good ad for R. Perry,

Prayer Rally Dwarfed By Texans Who Flock To Nearby Convention Center, Desperate For Free School Supplies

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/08/290973/prayer-rally-school-supplies/

mr_basil_seal — August 8, 2011 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link mr_basil_seal. Orly and friends just don't quit. Crazy is as crazy does.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The economy is in free fall and you guys are worried about Perry and his religious beliefs?

Woosker — August 8, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 4:58...incredible look at the hypocrisy and ineptness of Perry who, strangely enough, could be the presidential front runner for the Republican party before weeks end.

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr._basil_seal- Laurence O'Donnell is devoting a segment about the school supply/prayer rally debacle. On in about one minute MSNBC

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — August 8, 2011 at 5:06 p.m.

Luxury goods are leading...... What's the problem with the economy?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834804576300941315031916.html

And there are those here who will see only the Fox, freep, et al coverage of Perry and Bachmann et al, so not a bad idea to note the stuff that won't get the coverage on those sources.

mr_basil_seal — August 8, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker @ 5:06 PM: So good to see you joining in the conversation again!

Here's how I look at it: Rick Perry is part of the free-fall package. It's all connected and all relevant. And very, very scary.

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The economy is in free fall and you guys are worried about Perry and his religious beliefs?

Woosker — August 8, 2011 at 5:06 p.m.

And in reality, we can't do anything about any of it.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou-
I can see why you mighr lump perry in the free fall because he is a politician, but I'm not in agreement.. Thats OK .. Every polictician is hated or not liked by at least 50% of the people...Especially in todays climate... I don't really care about ones religous beliefs as long as they don't try to shove them donw my throat.. I'm open minded..

Alleycat- I like the last part of your diatribe on our president.. Managament by results.. Thats the way it's done in our capital society but not in our government.. Thats where we don't care how much the toilet seat cost's because it's usually used for someFat A$$ to sit on and pontificate there virtues of their stateliness.. I say go get them a Porta Poty and see how they like it then....

rtsidethinker — August 8, 2011 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm in agreement with Alleycat - the system is screwed up, both sides are at fault, and we're too busy arguing rhetoric instead of working toward a fix.

roger — August 8, 2011 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jaime's little meeting with the 20 or so "by invitation only" business leaders was as blatant an example of posturing as I've seen in ages. (Outside of the CRC discussion, anyhow.) Per the article in The Columbian, these business owners say there are lots of good jobs but no qualified people want them because they'd rather milk unemployment insurance.

That stinks. Have you considered training people yourself? And just where are you advertising? I find it hard to believe that you don't have more applicants than you can interview if you've made a serious attempt to hire.

I take back my comment the other day that just maybe Jaime is learning to play nice - this was total bull.

roger — August 8, 2011 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- What I found to be absurd is that according to the article, Jaime sat on her hands the whole time and offered nothing!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone catch Ed Schultz interviewing the Wisconsin voters tonight? Inspiring energy. Maybe it will rub off?

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I was wondering how the business owners were chosen by Jaime HB. We have a small business and she did not call us.

Wonder why?

manthou — August 8, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just what kind of training do you need to sell "irrigation parts"? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Let's see, this is a 3" aluminum coupler and it rings up at $23.00 and this is a 2" to 3" female adapter, 1 @ $18.50. So much hard work.

***Teach someone, for crying out loud***

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:21- Yes. My wife and I watched during dinner. I'm glad Ed Schultz is there and MSNBC is covering well. Exciting day tomorrow. Fingers are crossed. Ed and others have said more than 40 million$$$ have been pumped in from outside sources, Koch Bros., Rove's Pac etc.

Money can buy love and politicians, let's hope it can't buy too many cheeseheads!

nailingit — August 8, 2011 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Watching CNN today, there was one guy that actually made sense. It was Ali Velshi. For those of you that watched, he was the only one who could explain what was going on in the market without making wild speculation. If only everyone at Wall St. had listened to him, we wouldn't have lost 500 points. I suspect it will recover some tomorrow. There will be those with money looking for bargains.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oil is down $20 a barrel, I'll bet we DON'T see gas drop a buck any time soon.

hawkeye — August 8, 2011 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry alleycat,

Apple is dependent on the health of Stephen Jobs. And he ain't looking too good these days...

But what the hell I may splurge-- for 2 or 3 shares.

Have you ever noticed the trading floor at the NYSE seems to closely resemble a casino?

mangoboy — August 9, 2011 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Have you ever noticed the trading floor at the NYSE seems to closely resemble a casino?

mangoboy — August 9, 2011 at 7:49 a.m.

Yes, but the odds are worse.

hawkeye — August 9, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey cat,

Mangoboy is right about Jobs but I was thinking it seems odd that YOU would be investing in a company that produces it product in CHINA!

What's the matter, can't you find a company in the good old USA that you believe in?

hawkeye — August 9, 2011 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


.......

nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yea, OK. Justify it the best you can and lie to yourself as much as you can. The fact still remains that you are still supporting a company that COULD be manufacturing in the USA and still charge the outrageous prices that they do, they just wouldn't make as much profit. It all boils down to greed, yours AND theirs.

hawkeye — August 9, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Bob's back....

Bob Larimer · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
I can tell you the future, no matter what the stocks do, if Americans do not turn away from the false beliefs being pushed by the Left.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams.
THIS IS A FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO HUSSEIN OBAMA, LIBERAL DEMOCRATS AND RINOS IN CONGRESS, THE ACLU, ACORN...
What people will Americans choose to be?
Will we allow thugs to swing billy clubs at voting booths?
Will we allow our enemies to control our economy?
Will we allow Islam to force us to kneel to a foreign god?
Will we surrender our freedoms and our Constitutional gurantees.....So that we can be more like the 'world community'?
The final decsions are upon us.
http://www.facebook.com/no​te.php?note_id=47353944596​6
3 · Like · Reply · Subscribe · 59 minutes ago

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/09/us-stock-futures-rise-after-big-fall/#comments

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Bob's back....
mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 8:43 a.m*

Yeah, and so.. Your point is??
Really, who cares if Bob is back, I certainly don't. He is just another face in the crowd, just like you, me, Hawkeye, Allen...all.
He has every right by law to post what he wishes within the guidelines of this paper just like we all do.
No one is twisting your arm and making you read his comments, so why complain and bring him up at every turn??
Don't like what he posts, then don't read them! Simple isn't it??
All this complaining reminds me of parents that complain about TV programs they don't want their kids to watch, but yet are too lazy to get off their backsides, and turn the channel, block the channel, or simply turn the TV off.

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think Bob is gone again. Basil-when I click on link, no
comment by him. Was he so offensive already again? LOL

Elisi, if you do not care if he is back, why do you always jump right in? I realize it his his first amendment right to spout nonsense, but it is the right of the C to censure him. I think we are somewhat amused by his rants but also offended by his outright lies. We are also entitled to talk about that. I mean no offense to you, by the way.

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 9:05 a.m.

Wow,,,,,

And the 'don't like what's on TV, just turn it off' is pretty inactive and an ineffectual method of change; What would have happened if, in not liking the coverage by W. Cronkite, we just changed channels? Or not ask why Israel was using US made white phosphorous?

BTW, I have no problem with Bob, et al posting. I do have a problem when one is spewing unsupportable talking points and previously disproved lies.

And it is pretty easy to see where the C is justified for deleting him http://www.columbian.com/guidelines/


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Elisi, if you do not care if he is back, why do you always jump right in?
luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:07 a.m*

Cause frankly is getting/is old hearing about him.

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's also getting pretty old to discuss the same old same old politics and screw-ups in DC, but we do not stop that either.

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.

Another persons opinions, no matter how offensive you may find them are not lies. Just because you pronounce them "unsupportable" does not make that a fact. Opinions by definition vary from person to person, even when using the same facts. I often have a hard time grasping bob's "social conservative" point of view, however to condemn another's opinion as lies is unconscionable.

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What if they are proven lies?

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...anyway, I wish our president would call congress...at least the leaders back to the table. From a political standpoint present optics are TERRIBLE! If I'm elected at least I would make the situation LOOK a little better. S&P; recommendations should have already taken place. Just because. Obama let this situation get out of hand and now he's more concerned with fundraisers. Amazing! Talk about living in a bubble. I'm really disappointed in our president.............

HILLARY!!!...........SAVE Us!!! HAHAHAHaHahahah.......sigh

nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.

First off Cronkite is dead, so no I don't think we will be listening to him. I'm sure there were those during his time that didn't care for him and turned the channel or turned him off.

As far as Israel and white Phosphorous..and this is news that other countries buy and use products made in the US? LOL This is laughable...if you only knew all/what the US had sold to other countries to.. Lets just say much is turned around and used on the US one way or another. Why not ask the government about all the "arms' that have made their way to countries such as..Pakistan, Turkey, China..all countries that are not part of NATO.
At least Israel is an ally.

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:27 a.m.

+1

BTW, there was a rw talking point of Greenspan claiming 'we can always print money'.

And accurate quote, but as normal for any talking point, taken out of context:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44050464/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/t/meet-press-transcript-august/

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:27 a.m

When has Bob been an elected official that effects our everyday lives??

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Newtonian physics is almost universally accepted as fact, does that make the works of today's physicists lies

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 10:36 a.m

I agree. Hillary where are you????????????

Lots to do, little time to do them...you all have a great day!

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil I posted his statement yesterday at 2:18..

*"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default" said Greenspan on NBC's Meet the Pres*s

ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:30 a.m.

You are on a roll, another +1

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 10:28 a.m.

*Just because you pronounce them "unsupportable" does not make that a fact.*

I ask for the support for a talking point and get no response; just a repeat of the talking point. AGW denier, Obama is a socialist, lowering taxes raises revenue, yada yada yada

If there were substantive data, then it would be presented. It isn't. It's not there. The talking point is a lie.

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


can you all imagine Hillary indicating her interest? They would try to destroy her so fast.....I think that undertaking is a lost cause, she is tired of it. Of course, I do think she would have given them all hell by now.
Matter of fact, I do wish we had a female prez, honestly. Not in the ilk of Bachman or Palin of course. I do like an INTELLIGENT female prez. Do we have the name of a potential candidate besides Hillary?

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:39 a.m.

*First off Cronkite is dead, ... turned him off.*

His coverage did much to bring the dissent about the war to where the gov't had to change its war policy. Turning off the TV didn't do that.

*As far as Israel and white Phosphorous.. .. At least Israel is an ally.*

So that makes Geneva convention a moot point.......?

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 9, 2011 at 10:41 a.m

Not an arguing point, we talk about a lot of opinions from non-elected people. Including you and I.

But his opinion, as often as incoherent as it is, is one held by a significant enough part of the populace that showing how invalid and inaccurate it is is worth it.

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 10:49 a.m.

I could cite MIT,Marx and JFK, but that would put me in a position of defending bob's opinion, and I am unwilling to do that.

My point is an opinion is not a lie, it is an opinion.

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nope, Fro, a lie is a lie, never an opinion. Knowingly distorting a fact is not opinion, but a lie. We are all entitled to pour opinions, but not to lies. If one lies, be prepared to be called on it.

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Naturally I meant our opinions, but we can all pour them out also. And we usually do.

luvithere — August 9, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere...I've always liked Jennifer Granholm...but she's Canadian born! Hillary's already been through the fire. The optics of a GOP assault on her would not bode well in my humble opinion. I think you are right. She wouldn't be putting up with this crap. One thing we know for sure, unlike our president...she stands up for progressive ideals.

nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My point is an opinion is not a lie, it is an opinion.

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.

Too bad more people don't understand that of Rush, Hannity and Beck.

hawkeye — August 9, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and fro not to pile on but...your assertion that Dan Quayle is a Rhodes Scholar doesn't make Danny Boy's I.Q. any higher.

nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 9, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.

*My point is an opinion is not a lie, it is an opinion.*

Attributed to P. Moynihan:

**Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.**

In a strict sense, you are correct; just as a lie isn't an opinion.

But that really isn't what we are talking about.

We started talking about talking points that are willfully spread by those who can't or won't support them by facts.

It can be the ridiculous claim that Obama is a secret Muslim, or the equally ridiculous claim that Anthropogenic Climate Change is a hoax developed to allow government to control... or a host of other tin-hat conspiracies.

Or it can be a claim like 'lowering taxes raises revenue' where no one can bring forward any research that can specifically show causation. It is a talking point based on correlation only. Is it a lie? Well, the originators of the talking point won't support their claim, the sycophants repeating it won't..... So, intellectual malfeasance or intellectual laziness? Who's more guilty?

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

I think it all depends on how you present your statement.

hawkeye — August 9, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.

Let me get this straight, when correlation is used to support AGW it is fact, when it is used to support tax cuts to increase revenue it is a lie.

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 9, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.

Even in a vastly oversimplified version you are very inaccurate; both in terms of what I wrote and in your attempt at making a connection.

The tax cut rw tp is an attempt at using 3 tax cuts without looking at any of the other factors that effect economic change.

Three cuts, without looking at when taxes rise.

Three cuts, named for the administrations they happened in without looking at any or even some of the other financial policy shifts that happened in the same time. Not to mention any of the global economic conditions.

And you'll have to walk us through your ACC/correlation claim.

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The Seattle City Council is holding a public hearing Wednesday afternoon on a proposed $80 increase in the car tab fee to help pay for roads and transit."

And I expect the Vancouver City Council is watching this closely --- if either of the sales tax ballot measures for C-Tran is defeated, this could give them the funding they want.

roger — August 9, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jessica Bowen · Top Commenter · Seattle, Washington
"Most of the non business owners these days are either on welfare, or extended unemployment benefits, and they are content. As long as those checks keeps rolling in, no worries."

There's no reason to miss Bob - his evil little sister is carrying on, spreading bits of wisdom as quoted above.

Mr. Basil - the last time I compared her to Bob, you observed she was more like Lew Waters. I respectfully disagree. I find that Lew has limits, and that he tends to apply a measure of decency (except for Pres Obama) that's totally lacking with the other two.

roger — August 9, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The following link was posted to the facebook side by Dan Kallem. Excellent reading - it's a recent speech by James Galbraith.

http://my.firedoglake.com/selise/2011/08/01/james-k-galbraith-the-final-death-and-next-life-of-maynard-keynes/

Several messages are in this speech - pretty much all geared toward saying there can be no meaningful recovery from our current situation without a major overhaul of our financial system.

"In nature, when predators achieve an overwhelming advantage, the prey suffer a population crash, from which the predators in turn suffer later on. In economics it’s a financial crash, but process and dynamics are essentially similar."

roger — August 9, 2011 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Columbian reporters like to talk to each other on Twitter and Facebook. Often their comments to each other are the only comments. This one caught my eye because Libby Tucker was discussing switch to FB --- "But after only two months the number of comments we're getting is almost back to where it was before the switch and the quality of the discourse is much, much greater." [see below]

_______________________________________________________
The quality of the discourse is much, much greater.
Libby Tucker
________________________________________________________
Today on Twitter:

LibbyTucker LibbyTucker
Some Gannett papers testing Facebook comments:mediabistro.com/10000words/gan… via @10000words Following our lead @thecolumbian? :)

thecolumbian The Columbian
@LibbyTucker If they're smart, they are!

------------------------
http://www.mediabistro.com/10000words/gannett-papers-ban-anonymous-posts_b5967

Libby Tucker6 minutes ago

Our mid-sized daily, The Columbian, switched to Facebook comments June 1 and we've been very happy with the change. It took some initial adjustments to our moderation process, and yes, it's not always easy to tell fake profiles from real people. But after only two months the number of comments we're getting is almost back to where it was before the switch and the quality of the discourse is much, much greater. We've also seen a large increase in Facebook referrals, which helps us expand our reach beyond our regular readership. It's not a perfect solution to the anonymous commenter issue, but I definitely recommend this commenting platform for papers that want a simple solution.

buckeye71 — August 9, 2011 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 12:27 p.m

Your insistence that opinions different from yours are by definition, lies, kind of reminds me of bob.

sigh...

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 9, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.

You are pretty right, I think I was basing my obs. on J just regurgitating rw tp while BobL created for the most part, his own.

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 9, 2011 at 2:26 p.m.

If you can take one of your claims, and support it with reputable data, then by definition it isn't a lie, right?

My point stands, those claiming that 'lower taxes raises revenue' can't point to any research that shows causation. All they have brought is a, at best, weak correlation.

And correlation does not mean causation.

Ditto with the ACC denier crowd who can't bring a review of the literature that will support their claims. And, as skepticalscience.com shows, they have 166 or so to choose from.

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Harry Reid has appointed our own Patty Murray to the Super Committee! Also appointed: Max Baucus and John Kerry.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20090293-503544.html

______________________________________

buckeye71: Well, I am glad the staff think the FB change has worked out for them. Let them have it. I am grateful they have kept these forums going, too.

manthou — August 9, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.

You are still maintaining that your correlation is fact and his is a lie.

frobert — August 9, 2011 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 9, 2011 at 4:28 p.m.

No, I am maintaining that facts are facts and are used to inform one's thinking.

And if one has accepted a talking point without a critical analysis of the available facts, then we are looking at an example of intellectual laziness.

And if there is no data to support a talking point, then the originator is practicing intellectual malfeasance.

So, let's go back to this morning--

"BTW, I have no problem with Bob, et al posting. I do have a problem when one is spewing unsupportable talking points and previously disproved lies."

So, to simplify, You may have an opinion whether green snot coming out of a kid's nose is better than yellow snot or v.v., but if you just 'know' it, that is not informed thinking.

And if you just keep repeating it, get asked for evidence, and refuse to answer, what do you think?

And if you are using that uninformed tp in an effort to influence someone's medical treatment (or to bring it back to here, vote) what do you think?

mr_basil_seal — August 9, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- 2 great picks.....not too happy about Max! Lots of health care special interest money going his way and he's been the center of much controversy. He's against equality in marriage and voted for the Bush tax cuts and permanently repealing the estate tax.

Reid has some 'splainin' to doooo'! I hope the house puts Barney Frank on. He'll fight. Patty will do us proud and John Kerry should do well!

Rock on Cheeseheads!

nailingit — August 9, 2011 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: This is the second shout-out you have given to my favorite childhood neighbors-to-the-North, the Cheeseheads!

I am absolutely impressed with the passtion and commitment being shown there right now. Hope it is contagious..... We all should be taking notes. :)

I have heard that Barney Frank is on the short list in the House. Hope so.

manthou — August 9, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If it weren't so perverse, it would be funny....

Asked at the Perry Prayer Rally about helping the poor, one pastor claimed that we should look at taxation under the concept of the 10 commandments.

Or at least one; ' thou shall not steal'....

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/09/291498/jim-garlow-what-would-jesus-cut-poor/

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Wisconsin is voting tomorrow. Good luck Dems!" - nailingit

Well they voted nailingit! Ain't it great? Maybe it'll be indicative of the next few years!

PegoMan — August 10, 2011 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So we have back to back C articles on Wall St. but no mention of:

"But by a ratio of more than two to one, Americans said that creating jobs should be a higher priority than spending cuts.

Though Republicans prevented tax increases from being included in the debt-ceiling deal, half of those polled said the agreement should have included increased tax revenue, while 44 percent said it should have relied on cuts alone. That issue is likely to be revisited soon: Congress is preparing to appoint a special committee to recommend ways to reduce the deficit. Sixty-three percent of those polled said that they supported raising taxes on households that earn more than $250,000 a year, as Mr. Obama has sought to do — including majorities of Democrats (80 percent), independents (61 percent) and Republicans (52 percent)."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well worth the listen.

The Books And Beliefs Shaping Michele Bachmann

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/139084313/the-books-and-beliefs-shaping-michele-bachmann

Or head down the the library and read the article.

Or online:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_lizza

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Are voters so underinformed that they are willing to support a legislative agenda that undermines their family's best interests? What we saw in WI yesterday was an example of middle class workers fighting back to save jobs and public education. While they did not reach their full goal, they won, in my book, for grass roots organizing, commitment, and passion.

When legislators attack unions, they are attacking the people who work hard to keep this country competetive and viable.

As Union membership decreases, so goes Middle Class income:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/03/147994/unions-income-inequality/

I saw this chart on TV yesterday. Amazing to me.

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah I saw this on TV also. It wasn't very amazing to me. Didn't surprise me at all except that the mainstream media is beginning to turn against their anointed one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO9mp4f5hvQ

PegoMan — August 10, 2011 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


He said he would be "held accountabel" ! HA, ha, ha, ha! He can't find enought people to place blame.

Do a Google for "Obama Blames" and you'll get 6,880,000 results!

Sure... he wants to be held accountable. You wonderful liberals, look who you put in as CEO to the biggest most powerful nation in the world, a little child!

PegoMan — August 10, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, c'mon, PegoMan. Were you ever disappointed in a Republican president? The issues that this country is facing did not happen overnight. They have been a long, long time coming and are the result of a variety of self-serving decisions by a variety of legislators.

It is good that the voters are waking up. I think we all hold the power to make positive changes if we commit to work together and collaborate.

Someone somewhere has to make the choice to stop pointing fingers, rubbing noses, and blowing raspberries. Whoever does that in the next few weeks, whoever steps up with some good ideas that are truly citizen-focused, no matter what their party affiliation, will get my attention and support.

What can we do? Keep our minds opened and informed and our emotions in check.

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, 577,000 hits, with many duplicates as rw blogs repeat the phrase from blog to blog..... a bit of hyperbole there Pegoman.

And note the hits.... which are mostly 'hit' pieces.

Ahhh, a new rw talking point.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


PegoMan — August 10, 2011 at 7:50 a.m.

Just how much power do you think the President REALLY has?

If the House isn't willing to work with him, there isn't a lot he can do.

It's kind of like me trying to convince you that Republican'ts and Democrats should work together for the good of the country.

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just ten years ago this country was running huge surpluses and paying off its debt. But then we elected Obama and all hell broke loose. Oh, wait...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/09/1005037/-Ten-Years-Ago-We-Were-Paying-Off-The-Nations-Debt-But-Then-We-Elected-Obama

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil @ 8:48 am: Excellent link. A must read.

How have we evolved into a country that is bankrupt, corrupt, and ungovernable?

This question will be answered in US History books that our grandchildren will be studying.

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Just how much power do you think the President REALLY has?
If the House isn't willing to work with him, there isn't a lot he can do.
hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 8:23 a.m*

I remember people saying that very same thing to D's about Bush and it falling on deaf ears. The blame game continues today.
People need to stop looking at and placing all the blame on the president and start looking at the congress and senate.
We the people have have sat back, and allowed this mess to build and build until we have what we do today.

Obama needs to roll up his sleeves, march right into the chambers and demand they all sit down with him and work on restoring this country. Will he do it, does he have the strength, I don't think so. I have sat back, watched and listened these past two years. I see a man that was in love with the idea of power that came with being president, become one and not know what the hell to do. He placed people around him that have/are tax evaders and only in politics for the money and power. He relied too much on others to do the job for him. Look around people, we got exactly what we voted for.

Manthou asked Pegoman if he'd ever been disappointed in a R president, I have. Presidents are not a god and should never be held up like one. Republican or Democrat, doesn't matter they are just humans and they sure as hell don't walk on water.

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If you put a rope around the neck of an elephant, and it doesn't want to go anywhere, how much chance do you think you have of moving it?

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 19:20- I've known a few cheeseheads in my time and they've been great people...except their Packer fans!

PegoMan @ 6:41- I hope so PegoMan! Great success in Wisconsin yesterday of historic proportions. I hope it is a sign to come!
Who would you vote for if you had to. Obama or Michele Bachman? You would be surprised how many on the right refuse to answer.

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 9:37 a.m.

Well, to continue the analogy, the mouse of a tea party did make it move to the right......

Latest polling is showing the public (remember the public?) recognizing most of the blame for the debt crisis / how it was handled is squarely and rightfully (pun somewhat intended) placed on that elephant.

Fox, et al obviously are trying to spin it otherwise, but it looks like the public is starting to see what voting in that small minority of reps in '10 did. Not only personally with no job programs, no tax security, no SS / medicare security, no effective budget cuts, but also with the deleterious effects to the American psyche (think Carter's 'malaise' speech), the political process, and how we're looked at from the rest of the world.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 9:06 I agree! Obama has the the pulpit. As stunted as GW was and is in the Department of intellect, he used his bully pulpit to get his agenda items into the public's mind which translated into buckling legislation. This president has a great mind and can articulate his thoughts concerning anything on planet earth. He chooses not to. He chooses not speak on behalf of the unions, the middle class and did not involve himself one iota concerning the recall in Wisconsin, and I'm sure he will stay out of the fray in other states DESPITE his rhetoric on the campaign trail. Democrats need to hold his feet to the fire. He needs to be challenged in the up coming election by a solid Democrat....... and soundly defeated.

Our President seemingly lacks the passion, the vision and the intestinal fortitude to see any of his campaign promises through and enacted in a way in which he campaigned on.

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 10, 2011 at 7:31 a.m.

This is a doc vid produced by Al-Jazeera. Sorta what PB$ would do if they weren't corp. sponsored .....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/03/1002554/-STUNNING-Al-Jazeera-documentary-on-American-Income-Inequality-NAILS-IT;-Its-the-OLIGARCHY,-stupid

Reporter asks Ryan about his position, and she's told her questions are 'rude'. That's after swinging the car door in her face.....

You also might like how, after supporting the oligarchy, a rw think tanker says 'you can't do anything about the perception.'

Also, the commentary /voice over during the Harvard Business School grad. ceremony cleanup should be repeated endlessly.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 10:13 a.m.

*He needs to be challenged in the up coming election by a solid Democrat....... and soundly defeated.*

As horribly as he's handled issue after issue, and as much as he's moved to center right on finances and foreign policy, he has still held decent polling (at least in comparison to the R of choice of the week).

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 10, 2011 at 10:31 a.m.

Not to steal your thunder, but that is a part of the New Yorker piece cited above. She's basically had government jobs or subsidized by gov't funding all her working life.

The Books And Beliefs Shaping Michele Bachmann

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/139084313/the-books-and-beliefs-shaping-michele-bachmann

Or head down the the library and read the article.

Or online: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_lizza

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anybody catch the Daily Show the other day about B of A? This is really good;

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-8-2011/the-forecloser

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow! You guys are sure crying a different tune now that Bush isn't in your sights. Ohhh, it was a different story then. You guys are such hypocrites!

Oh well, you'll never change. How about some good old fashioned **Liberal Humor!**
Another one of your heros.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqQe4KOrvsM

PegoMan — August 10, 2011 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


pegoman LOL...a hypocrite would spout party rhetoric regardless of how they felt...comprehension concerning this and last night's recall election's are much needed on your part, with all due respect.

BACHMAN OR OBAMA???????????????????????

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou- per your comment this morning at 7:31

I don't think the voters are so ill informed as they are Brainwashed from there parties leaders and our media... I see it all the time on here where people quote from this source and that source, with most of there information coming from what people consider a very "left" leaning media outlet. With that said they tehn beleive what is spoon fed them to be true and not much will change there minds... It's very evident on this forum...

Pegoman,
I just saw this video and I think it pretty much sums up what is going on in washington and with our president

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdn3O6...

alley,
People with 401K or people that invest and I mean not day trading where they buy a stock one day and sell it another day hopefully with a profit.. Those folks don't sleep well at night.. If your investing there is always some risk involved. But evryone who is saving and investing needs a plan.. If your able to invest then that money is whats leftover after you pay your bills, its called discretionary.. So that being said I have a professional money person that manages my account.. So if your one that is freaking out about the market right now I would get out because you shouldn't be in it.. JMHO as said from the guy that manages my account. BTW my account, it's up this year in double digits so far this year.. Investing is a long term deal...

rtsidethinker — August 10, 2011 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 10, 2011 at 11:14 a.m.

Not a problem, the NYer just covers it more thoroughly and adds more crazyness (like the pro-slavery book on her recommended reading list)

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @10:35..I find some of the polling numbers baffling. I wish the progressive caucus were as vigilant as their tea party counterpart. How do you feel about a solid progressive challenging our president? I know some precedent has been set with Kennedy/Carter with Carter's numbers being lower and the outcome/results a bit skewed as to how much negative effect it had.

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — August 10, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.

"most of there information coming from what people consider a very "left" leaning media outlet."

Interesting, Pogoman makes much of a malformed sentence (actually more a misspoken word that threw off the rest of the thought) and then we get rtsidethinker who doesn't know which there/their/they're to use.......

But, who is the the first 'there'? You imply it is "the voters", but the rest of your sentence seems to imply just the left wing. Or is it that even the right wing is only getting "are Brainwashed from there parties leaders and our media" from " a very "left" leaning media outlet".

Or is this yet another example of a rw talking point that you can't bring specific examples of support?

Sorta like Bachmann decrying government while holding only government jobs....?

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal

watched the clip about the oligarchy-good stuff. However, even as it echoed many of my sentiments, I don't get the impression it was unbiased-if fact, the opposite. It was as though the point was preconceived and a video was made to support that point, which is, I guess, why it was produced in the first place. A view of the other side of this subject would be interesting.

mrd — August 10, 2011 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 12:32 p.m

Ditto. If you go to moderate/progressive sites -DailKos, Atlantic, etc - there is some 'who instead of Obama' talk, but not much past that.

I don't see anyone trying to raise a serious challenge either.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another wonderful day for our economy. Another 15 months until the children are voted out of office and the adults move back in.

Woosker — August 10, 2011 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — August 10, 2011 at 12:41 p.m.

The big point is that those sentiments are getting out there. And that they aren't getting much exposure inside the US beyond the left.

But we get inundated with the guy from the Tax Foundation (for example) in interviews getting softball questions.

Sorta like how the C has daily front page stories on the activities on the stock market like that is covering the economy.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat- I watched it live. Ratigan annoys me and usually don't tune in but did yesterday and he hit areas that need hitting. A good rant. Dude usually looks and acts like he's working off a drunk LOL. Covered a lot of area in a concise and needed way. Got some wheels turing a little faster and scared the beejeezers out of the panel!!

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wondered how long this would take, now I know. Once the County/City paints a target on you, it's only a matter of time.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/au...

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - I hope the place gets shut down for good. The county has tried many times to work with the owner in regards to illegal activities such as drugs and prostitution. The owner is a complete jerk that tells the community to pack sand every time. He probably did the same with the recents safety and health inspections and they finally are shutting him down. I've been on so many calls to that place during LE ride alongs. It's absolutely disgusting. The blood, urine and drugs everywhere and the owner does nothing to fix these issues.

Woosker — August 10, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another closed door "appearance" for Jamie HB...Here is an idea, how about having the next meeting in the parking lot of the Unemployment Office.

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 10, 2011 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal



FBI raids Portland Bureau of Transportation Office

http://www.kgw.com/home/FBI-searching--127469758.html

LOL!!!!!!!

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another vacation??? So soon??? He just came back from one on the 7th.

*President Barack Obama will vacation with his family in Martha's Vineyard, an island off the coast of the eastern state of Massachusetts, at the end of this month as he has done in years past, the White House said Wednesday, despite the weak economy and negotiations on the U.S. debt problem.*

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:

Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States,

still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the United States

And receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States

Receives $6,721,000,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States

Receives $143,699,000 annually.
WHY?
WHO IN THE HECK STARTED
THIS AND WHY?
THEY ACTUALLY BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS THEM.

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes.

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 4:33 p.m.

Really? You are going to rag on the guy for taking a couple of days off after all he has been going through? That's just not fair. Especially since congress is on a ***FIVE WEEK VACATION!!***

Geeze ELISI.

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good afternoon, Elisi. Your post at 4:37 pm came from an email that has been circulating wildly today, I think.

I cannot find a source for the data. Is there one with it? If so, please share. :)

Thanks!

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


itiswritten — August 10, 2011 at 3:40 p.m.

She's really starting to tick me off.

"“I am not pinning all our hopes on the debt agreement that was reached,” she said in response to a question from the audience. **Even if the 12-member panel comes up with a plan that can pass the House and Senate, she said, that plan will only whittle the national debt by $2 trillion** — and won’t absolve Congress of its responsibility for the nation’s spending and economic woes."

How could she possibly know that?

hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 4:58 PM: Good point! It is hard to know how this very young woman is so very wise. Is she prescient, too?

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


itiswritten — August 10, 2011 at 3:40 p.m.

+1 !

Or food bank

Or SS office

Or Jobs Training Facility

Or Health Care

Or ?

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 4:37 p.m.

How about 'friendly' countries - say Canada, Japan, S. Korea, Australia, etc - how often do they vote opposite of our position?

How much of that foreign aid is humanitarian and how much is in-kind grants for military equipment?

And maybe we should look at other country's foreign aid to the ones on your list and compare.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The $2T JHB is talking about is the number in the deal that has been signed off on. The Super Committee is tasked with the where and how. That's why getting strong D's who will fight to keep SS and Medi off the table is so important. And making the hearings open and public.

mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr_Basil_Seal & Everyone reading this post.

Great suggestions Basil, hopefully everyone reading this post will call Herrera's office at 695-6292 and make suggestions for locations of a public appearance by JHB...Another good suggestion would be the parking lot of the new Share House building on Andresen Rd..Let's all crawl out of the basement and make the call, like tomorrow morning beginning at 9:00 am.

When I called I got an "aauuhhh, OK, I will pass the suggestion along"

itiswritten

itiswritten — August 10, 2011 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal



mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 5:17 p.m

My point is Basil, people need to start looking at what goes out and for what purpose. Just how much IS going for humanitarian aid??

I have no problem for it going for humanitarian aid. We sell our old military equipment to other countries. We have families living on the streets, homeless shelters here in this country where is the humanitarian aid for them?

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 10, 2011 at 4:53 p.m

I'm not happy about the 5 week vacation the clowns are taking either!

ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Huh. I was hoping to read the comments to Leonard Pitts' NAACP's sober stand on Drug War this morning. I can't seem to find the column here in the e-version. Shrug -- Drift — August 8, 2011 at 7:58 a.m.

Here is the Leonard Pitts column you referenced:

[http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/03/119008/commentary-naacp-shifts-the-war.html][1]

And for those who missed it:

[http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008967162_opinc02pitts.html][2]

Making drugs illegal has made things worse, than they otherwise would be.

[1]: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/03/119008/commentary-naacp-shifts-the-war.html
[2]: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008967162_opinc02pitts.html

kn_dalai — August 10, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: Thank you for the links. Much appreciated!

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Has anyone seen this Dylan Ratigan clip from yesterday? I think he is hitting the nail on the head. Lots of frustration and anger. Worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcqb9...

manthou — August 10, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Greetings manthou! alley referenced it at 2:01. A part of me doesn't want to face how entrenched and corrupt our system seems to be, and how seemingly impossible it is to extricate our butts from it! The President needs to do some lengthy one on one interviews, Ratigan on this subject would be great...if the President could get a word in edgewise. :))

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen I also recommend the Ratigan video. It's almost like he was channeling a higher power. :)) He sure got my squeaky wheels turning a bit.

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai- Excellent article. My political beliefs have been shaped over time but I've always been in favor of decriminalizing drug use. If we put a tenth of the 10's of billions of dollars we spend each year arresting, prosecuting and housing Americans, who in many cases are found guilty of a victimLess crime, and invested the $$$ in drug rehab and other programs that dealt with the reality of drug use, and abuse, we would be so far ahead of the game. Also the tentacles of the debate spills over into other aspects of our lives. Our free will should mean something nowadays...especially to lib nuts and freedom fighters!

I remember the late great and IMO one of the most brilliant political minds of our time...William F. Buckley, was part of a PBS panel quite a while back that produced some great debate on this issue... frontline if I remember right...will look it up and see if old video is available. Great debate and I obviously don't see eye to eye with Buckley on some things..but have much respect for him. And he taught me quite a few new words! Good to see you post by the way.

manthou- While on the subject thanks for "prescient"! Great word. Any nine letter word that takes six letters to come up on the suggestion list is cool! :))

nailingit — August 10, 2011 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 10:03 PM: Up early this morning and your comment about William F Buckley caught my bleary eye.

As a life-long left-leaner, I, too, have admired the conservative Mr. Buckley. One of the highlights of my early college experience was to witness a live debate between WFB and William Kunstler.

I am nostalgic for the time when political opposites could argue policy with intellect, wit and facts. It was a time when moderate Republicans dominated the scene and were confident and strong enough to keep their far right factions (John Birch Society; Ayn Rand cultists; George Wallace) at a long distance. Buckley had no trouble challenging their "thinking errors" and poor behavior.

I think, by today's ridiculous standards, Buckley would be accused of being an "elitist" by the far right members of his beloved party. How I would love to hear his evaluation of the political climate today!

manthou — August 11, 2011 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There's a Jaime Herrera Beutler ' how's she doing' poll on the C front page. Non pleased is pretty far ahead.

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"political opposites could argue policy with intellect, wit and facts."

Don't forget that WFB also threatened to 'punch the lights out' of both Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky...

He was also 'caught out' several times by many of his debate partners for playing rather fast and loose with facts.

And Vidal schooled him at least once on his misuse of a 'big word'.

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 10, 2011 at 6:29 p.m.

*I have no problem for it going for humanitarian aid. We sell our old military equipment to other countries. We have families living on the streets, homeless shelters here in this country where is the humanitarian aid for them?*

Well, first we have to make the military equipment before it becomes 'old'.

And I think you'd be surprised at how new some of the stuff we 'sell' is, not quite like the 50's-60's and old wwII ships.....

Notice on the front page of the C where there is to be housing for homeless vets built on a 1.3 acre parking lot at the VA facility. How many years do you think that took?

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- As much as Reagan's policies have hurt our country, both sides were able to talk and compromise somewhat. "Intellect wit and facts", amen. Bush, Palin, Bachman (I'd name a democrat but none comes to mind!) could not compete in these categories and now we have Perry entering the fray.

I'm concerned that we have dumbed down the highest office somewhat as to what we expect. The conundrum democrats and America has is that Barack Obama excels in intellect wit and facts, and chooses not to use the tools at his disposal. His signing off on GOP policies and talking points are amazing to me. He's a Democrat. After 8 years of Bush and 12 years of GOP controlled Congress, He didn't embrace the referendum that was handed to him. Instead he chooses to embrace the 2010 election which was a referendum on him not doing enough.

Thanks manthou, I needed to vent!:)) I don't mean to wax so negative, but I am so disappointed with this guy....

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Notice on the front page of the C where there is to be housing for homeless vets built on a 1.3 acre parking lot at the VA facility. How many years do you think that took?
mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 7:27 a.m*

You do not need to tell me, I lived in Boise, my pre-teen and teen years and remember the Veterans home they had there. It was several buildings not far from the County Hospital.
By the mid 60's they closed the County Hospital then the Veterans home shortly after. By the 70's the land was used to build a park to honor the Veterans.
Left all those who had no money without medical care and the Vets no home.
Now the Veteran homes are making a come back, IMO they never should have never gotten rid of either.
IMO the County Hospital should be built again, to help the poor and homeless. In Boise, Id the doctors all took turns donated their time to work there.
I have often asked why not take the barracks on Officers row and turn them into 1. Homeless shelters, 2. Home for Vets, 3. County Hospital.

ELISI — August 11, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 11, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.

During those VD parades, there should be a contingent of hospital beds and wheelchairs and the walking wounded. You know, to show what real sacrifice is.

Glad to see we have some common areas of agreement on making America better.

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 11, 2011 at 6:59 a.m.

There are two or three frequent posters on the FB side that used to (maybe still) post on Victoria Taft's blog. There they just started name calling when they couldn't go beyond the fed to them rw talking points. Lew was especially good at that, and he's tried it here a couple of times.

What puzzles me is how they and the other rws think that is an effective way to move a conversation. Like you said, stuck in a box. Unfortunately, the box seems to be about 4th grade playground level.

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone notice the make-up of this committee calling itself the "Super Congress"? The Dems are representing women, hispanics, African-Americans and white males at the table. A good balance that can lend perspective and insight to decision making that will affect the majority of the American people.

The Republicans also are quite diverse...if the only people on the planet were white males.

This ain't playin' the race card...this is the card. Where is the outcry from Republican minorities?

I'm afraid lack of color as well as barefoot and pregnant account for much of this disparity.

This disparity speaks to the on going assault on women and minority rights in our country.

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Since there is a certain group who like to quote T. Jefferson...

Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Thomas Jefferson

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: I appreciate your reality check on the dark side of WFB! I tend to romanticize any Republican dead and gone right now, as if resurrecting them might be a more realistic option for bipartisan behavior.

So, when is Jaime Herrera-Beutler going to have an OPEN town hall with us peons? Shall we call her office again? Honestly, I have her on speed-dial now.... I am tired of these staged, by-invitation only performances. Is she afraid of us?

I was heartened by President Obama's speech in Michigan this afternoon. Anyone else catch the whole thing?

I hold out hope. I am slow to give up.

manthou — August 11, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK. I just got off the phone with Jaime H-B's Vancouver office. A very nice young man told me that there were no "open" town halls scheduled yet. Just about what I expected.

However, if I wanted to give him my phone number, I might get called for the next telephone town hall. When I expressed disappointment that the only face-to-face meetings she has had are "by invitation" only, he added that there are "Coffee with the Congresswoman" events that might be happening at local restaurants. I could leave my name on her website for an invitation to one of those. Oops. Did he say "invitation?" He corrected himself and said that they would be letting people who lived in the area of the restaurant know about these coffee klatschs.

I really, really get the feeling that she is being protected from facing the collective US. What are your thoughts?

manthou — August 11, 2011 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I caught most of it manthou. I can't say I was heartened. He did seem to be a bit partisan for once in allocating certain blame. But then again, it's going on three years. He needs to stop blaming everyone for everything. He wants us to fix this "problem" by calling our Reps. Okay, I've done that. He seemed to put the onus on the people and the GOP, rather than what he is doing to fix this.

His vision of the future needs to be as clear as his look into the past, and his balls need to brass up, or this term will be his last.

I look forward to his ideas he promised to put out in the coming days. Make this radical right vote down jobs bills that are presented to them so the line can be clear. For America...not just the political upside for his re-election. imho

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


She does not represent me, she will never represent me. Why? Because I am done with "that type" of politicians. I am a problem solver and they are not. What problem have they solved? See what I mean?

alleycat — August 11, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.

***NO, BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN PORTLAND***

hawkeye — August 11, 2011 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It will be okay people.I just saw that mayor Tim is thinking of a run for congress?

terick — August 11, 2011 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 11, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.

*Oops. Did he say "invitation?" ....
I really, really get the feeling that she is being protected from facing the collective US. What are your thoughts?*

I'm wondering if she thinks a large TH would result in something like what happened at Baird's TH. But one vocal constituent with a good grasp of the facts in a small venue could do much - if a C reporter were there. And I'm not sure the C would consider each restaurant visit worthy of sending a reporter to.

Since there is no schedule, and you have to get on some special list, I'll go with your proposition - limited, controlled and protected access.

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Negative Hawk,

I live in three places, in three different states.

I hope that doesn't piss you off...

Happy now?

alleycat — August 11, 2011 at 2:39 p.m.

Where would that be? Oregon, Washington & Denial? Spend most of your time in the last.

hawkeye — August 11, 2011 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whatever genre of entertainment you prefer it's bound to be on display tonight @ 6:00.

The madness of 10,000 maniac conservatives in Iowa! The horrific quagmire rimming around Santorum! The hilarious 'Bachisms' that cause one to wonder who thought it was smart to combine revisionist history/absurdity/hypocrisy/insanity, and wrap them up in a fruitcake in order to run for President. Caine who brings color and WTFdrama to any GOP debate, and there are sure to be Paw-lenty times to use the restroom during those Gin-rich moments. Can't wait!! It's not to often you get prime time examples of what is wrong with our country like tonight!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


cat

you must be talking about someone else. First, I don't live in Van-anything. Second, didn't vote for the hyphenated republican't. Third, my pension will take care of me just fine, SSI is just the icing on the cake and why would I want to live anywhere else, this is Gods country.

Seems stupid to have property in four states, that's a lot of property tax to pay, you can't be in all of them at one time.

hawkeye — August 11, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 11, 2011 at 4:41 p.m.

Well said alleycat.

For too long we have had politicians R's & D's that are addicted to spending. They are more worried about getting re-elected than what is good for this country. They make promises of free handouts that can't be paid for. It's time to put away the credit card and start living on a budget. Social security is not going away but it needs to be re-structured. Stop giving billions away to countries that hate us. Congress and our President act like a bunch of spoiled children that want the credit card and complain like a little girl when they don't get to use it. It's pathetic.

Woosker — August 11, 2011 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- How would you re-structure Social Security?

Do you think Social Security is a large driver of our deficit?

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alley- You scrapped tickets to Frampton for tonight's debate? A mistake dude. As Peter would say...do you feeeeell like I dooooo....awwww that's true! WA-WA WA wA WAAA!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Not to worry about my life hawk... I make my own decisions financial and otherwise. What seems stupid for you, may not be for someone else. Now that we got that out of the way...."

Yea, OK cat. Nobody cares.

Where do you call home? I mean your primary residence. You know, the one where you are registered to vote.

hawkeye — August 11, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Coming soon to a foreclosed home near you: obnoxious renters placed by Uncle Sam :) and you thought your home value couldn't go any lower!!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s​tories/U/US_GOVERNMENT_HOME_RE​NTALS?SITE=AP&SECTION;=HOME&TEM;​PLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME;=2011-08-10​-13-18-31

ELISI — August 11, 2011 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal



It's on Fox (of course). Let the circus begin!!!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kinda a funny story

"Tom McCloud, owner of PIP Printing on Main Street, just south of that intersection, said he and a curious customer asked a CenturyLink worker one day last month what the workers were doing.

The worker, McCloud recalls, said they were working to prepare for light rail, a job that would take three years. Stewing at the idea that the work was being done before a new vote on light rail, McCloud started making phone calls. State Sen. Don Benton said that light rail supporters would somehow get what they wanted, McCloud recalls. Clark County Commissioner Tom Mielke didn’t call back, and neither did U.S. Digital chief executive and anti-rail crusader David Madore — at least initially.

Last week, McCloud got calls from two of Madore’s staff and later from the man himself. Rapidly, discussion of the unnamed worker’s comment went viral in an anti-light rail way."

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/11/rumors-rile-up-light-rail-opponents

mr_basil_seal — August 11, 2011 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This debate is something else! The audience is soooo dummmbbed down. This is how a 2010 happens...with this crowd...if you don't express hate for Obama, you are toast. I hope all of America are watching these political whores spew their nonsense. I can't wait for 2012!!!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Where to begin?

basil: I suspect that Jaime H-B and other representatives have been told to be cautious, given the recent public outrage and the memory of what happened to Gabby Giffords. I wonder if we will see a reduction in open Town Halls across the country? It is a shame. This will increase the disconnect between constituents and legislator.

Elisi at 5:32 pm: Thanks for the interesting link. I actually think this is a good idea. Don't automatically assume the tenants will bring down the neighborhood. We have rental properties and have noticed an increase in qualifying applicant families who have lost their homes to foreclosure. Last time I advertised a vacancy, I had applicants from Camas, Lake Oswego, and someone who lost their condo at Tidewater Cove. Everyone needs safe housing. That is the building block for basic stability (google Maslow's Hierarchy). It is good business sense to put these government properties back into the economy, rather than sitting vacant. Just my opinion based on personal experience.

manthou — August 11, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Oh, man. I do not think I can watch these debates tonight! I usually get too angry and frustrated at the lies and sound bites.

Looking at them as entertainment is a good re-frame, though. Show me how to laugh at it, and I will tune in. :)

manthou — August 11, 2011 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


These people to include the audience are undisciplined and shallow. As an American...I just have to shake my head. These people are CLOWNS!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The clown factor manthou! And there's a war brewing with PawLenties & Bachman! It's hilarity at it's best! An exercise in comedy/tragedy! And Newt angry! angry! angry!!!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Santorum messed himself...and everyone else! Where's the Snickers bar? :)))

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Queen of Rage is ready for a cage!! Bachman's pissed! Santorum has his hand..deep in his pocket...Paul is holding on...Pawlenty is channeling Howard Sprague...Huntsman is toast (Milk)..serving up blackeyeofNewt, Mitt is Mitt with free passes....man..this is great!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


....and your winner is........long before it's even over....The Cainman! Pizza all around! Alleycat...do any of these ... people look presidential to you? I'm not seeing the most remote quality in any of these people...at least Obama is smart and can fake strength...these guys are like little kids...

Anyone that leans to the right offer a different perspective? Are you proud of your choices?

So many to pick from.....................

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ron Paul is channelling good stuff on the wars!!! Allen. I hope she responds! Will there be a riot tonight on the Fox stage!!! It's gettin' hairy!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Santorum just put down Iran because they discriminate against gays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hypocrisy has a face! Several tonight!!! Go Paul!!! Santorum.....hahahahahaha!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Bachman just got our debt wrong by 2 trillion! She's a genus! She should work for S&P;!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat...don't slip back to the dark side. As a society we need Federal government, it's either that or the corporatists take over.

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dismantling the Fed is at the heart of the tea party. They believe God has called them to office in order to destroy it and make way for the second coming.

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 5:06 p.m Very good question, and two hours late Woosker still can't answer it. I just have to wonder why? He has in the past, had a lot of opinions from the RW side.

Funny stuff nailingit. First of all, I am a she, not a he. Second thing, I actually work for a living and have children that need me so I don't have time to sit on the Columbian web-site all day long writing.

Here is my opinion.

SS, Medicare and Medicaid are not sustainable due to the aging population and increased health care costs.

Reform is going to take benefit reductions and revenue increases. I think that the retirement age should slowly be increased to the age of 70. I'm referring to the very young, like our 5 year olds. Those close to retirement should have the age left alone.

I also think the very wealthy should have a cap on benefits paid out. All earned income should be subject to the payroll tax. That means everybody pays regardless of low or high income.

Woosker — August 11, 2011 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Love it! The poll on FoxNews.com has Ron Paul the winner of the Republican debate, hands down with over 16,000 votes. Even Gingrich (ugh) beat Romney and Bachmann. Cain did too!

Mrs_T — August 11, 2011 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker...I didn't write the response you referred to. That was Allen @ 7:14. I referred to your gender status @ 7:20. Thanks for answering my question @ 5:06! Am referring to 8:34!

What did you think of the debate Woosker? I like to hear what some from the other side of the tracks think. :)) Did anyone stand out to you?

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> This is a doc vid produced by Al-Jazeera. Sorta what PB$ would do if they weren't corp. sponsored ..... -- mr_basil_seal — August 10, 2011 at 10:16 a.m.

"Sorta what PB$ would do if they weren't corp. sponsored ...." Is that right?

And just how do you know this?

kn_dalai — August 11, 2011 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - I was not able to watch it. I left work, headed to Costco for groceries, had to unload them and now have been cleaning the house. I think they are going to replay it in a minute so I'm going to watch it on rerun. I'll let you know what I think. :o)

Woosker — August 11, 2011 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Kn_d. Just wanted to say hey. I understand you once stood for the betterment of the Federation...I salute you!

nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — August 11, 2011 at 6:51 p.m.

Could care less about "how much money" is in your pocket, bank or any other dark place you put it.

I just wanted to know where you live since I suspect your primary residence is P-town judging by your rants. I just find it odd that you seem to have much to say about Vancouver and Washington while living on the south side of the big ditch.

hawkeye — August 11, 2011 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 11, 2011 at 9:09 p.m.

Define betterment. And just how does one get there? Better yet, there is the concept of: The devil is in the details.

Actually not a concept but a real thing.

Ever heard of Cabrini-Green? Great idea.

Is what is happening in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, because of capitalism, or because of a busted welfare state that can no longer deliver.

kn_dalai — August 11, 2011 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - My opinion on the debate. Newt clearly won. It will be interesting to see how he does on Saturday in the straw poll. I believe he could be a dark horse but we will see. I think Huntsman and Pawlenty are in the nerds r us crowd. They should just drop out now because they are toast.
I thought Bachmann sounded like a typical politician that is in campaign mode which I didn't like. We got it, you are a fighter. Blah Blah. I thought Ron Paul sounded like an old geeser. I like many of his ideas but he will NEVER be nominated by the right due to his idiotic stance on Iran. Trust me, he is out of the race, he just doesn't know it yet. Santorum doesn't look Presidential. Romney did look Presidential but he is a bit vanilla for my taste. I neither like or dislike him. I did like Herman Cain. He spoke plainly and not like a career politician. I don't think he has much of a chance either but I like him.

Woosker — August 11, 2011 at 11:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit:

I agree that running for public office is very energy draining.

When I was a candidate for President of the United Federation of Planets, I had nothing but problems.

First: Me and my dog Pluto, got into troubles with the police chief in Roswell, N.M.

Then: I was chased off of the planet Klygon, by a million angry Klygonese,nipping at my heels, over alleged inapropriate contact with the high priestess!

I was kidnapped by operatives of the Spock/Sarek/Worf/Gaaron political machine!

And I had to keep pushing that Bill Gates to mine those dylithium crystals on Rura Pente. (He is so lazy!)

Alas!

Here is a video, from a leftist professor, which caught my eye, when I first saw this on Charlie Rose, last year. While Tony Judt, defends his ideas, he recognizes the problems with socialism. As in the Union of Socialst Soviet Republics. At around 27:00 on the video.

Somewhat unusual.

[http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11185][1]

[1]: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11185

kn_dalai — August 12, 2011 at 12:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Tim Leavitt for Congress? Really?

Remember what I said about narcissistic personality disorder and politicians?

Leavitt is so self-absorbed, he cannot objectively assess his true chances.

We need a viable challenger to Jaime H-B. And I don't mean Steve Stuart. Any ideas?

manthou — August 12, 2011 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_d- ...is it to say that "socialism" by concept brings about fairness and justice, and the realities become abstract do to the politicization of the concept? Without political interference it thrives, and depending on how it's managed determines the outcome?... It's early. I haven't watched the whole video but will. Good stuff! Thanks.

With Federation price controls, dylithium crystals could be regulated and allocated to those areas that are in need. I agree. You practically have to kick Gates in the backside for any positive rate of productivity.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker @ 11:20- I have to say it was one of the most entertaining debates I've seen. It's interesting that all candidates pledge no revenue hikes. With the specificity of the S&P; downgrade, I expected Huntsman and possibly one other to bend in that area. Without that flexibility I suspect whoever runs in 2012 will be soundly defeated if the Dems messaging is half way decent. Ron Paul on the wars rocked! Santorum imo is a prime example of what is wrong with the conservative movement. Unforgiving, war mongering,narrow minded, loud and bigoted. I haven't heard anyone do a take on this, but when Santorum used "discrimination against gays" as one reason to be confrontational with Iran....hahaha....this guy is toooooo much!!

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit and Woosker: I think the nomination will come down to Romney or Parry, neither of whom will be able to successfully challenge President Obama.

Unless the Republicans have a Hail Mary surprise candidate hidden in the wings (no, not Palin), attaining the presidency will be a difficult job.

I enjoyed Ron Paul's anti-war rants, too, nailingit! It was interesting that the audience loved it, too. Shows that we all agree on that issue, for the most part, I think.

Allen: Jeanne Stewart holds the citizens' hearts, for sure. She may not have the regional exposure needed. Not sure.

manthou — August 12, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 12, 2011 at 9:55 a.m

I'm thinking the Republican'ts just might have something up their sleeve. A surprise candidate in the wings. Let all of these gumballs get out there and make all the noise they can and then slip in maybe another Bush. Dumb idea but could be effective.

My belief is that like the Caddyshack movies, Bush presidencies should have stopped at one.

hawkeye — August 12, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit,

Loud,Narrow minded, unforgiving,no accountability, That sounds like the Democrats.Per yesterdays Presidential speech to auto workers in Michigan he blames congres for inaction and not putting forth jobs bills... He also says the Americans workers "Could Be" the best workers in the world but are being held back by politicians.. OMG.. Can he blame everyone else but himslef for the situation we are currently in. This is your Leader and look what he is doing Blame, blame, Blame..... That is the democratic message nailingit..Blame everyone else and VOTE FOR ME.... What a baffoon...If I was one of those workers I would have asked "well why don't you put forth a jobs bill, arn't you our leader and President.. All I read on here is the bashing of Republicons, Tim, JHB and just the bigotry of the rest of the R party.. Take accountability for ones action should be everyones mantra.. NOT BLAMING...As far as the gramer and spelling that you want to correct, just another example of the narrow minded nit picking individual..

rtsidethinker — August 12, 2011 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Entertaining debate! The audience was strange. Almost as if each candidate was allowed a % of supporters. The tea was strong and when it came time to press the bags and squeeze to strain the most potent part....Santorum just messed all over himself and the audience. This guy is special, and symbolic of "all things wrong" with society. I wish conservatives cared a tenth as much about the quality of life after a baby is born than they do while early life is being formed. Somehow these people believe Christianity is the only viable religion on earth...that and Judaism as long as Jews have converted and the rest... a part of prophecy to be fulfilled. I wish Newt would explain his moment of truth when he referred to the GOP as a having an agenda that promotes the radical right wing socialization of America.

rtsidethinker- I don't care to correct anyone's "gramer" as my own isn't the best.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen- "But Obama isn't acting like a Demo, he's acting like an idiot."

I couldn't agree more. He's been holding his base hostage for the last two years and the Demnapper's mantra is louder than ever. 'Who else are they going to vote for? They certainly won't vote Republican.'

How about voting for neither. Normally I think this train of thinking is wrong for our country, but damnit...I can't vote for this guy again. Not unless he has a combo 'road to Damascus/I grew some balls' experience.

He needs new voices in his inner circle. Not just those seeking to appease the big donor base. He also needs to forcefully communicate any type of resolve he has for progressive ideals.

And he needs a challenger. We the people need him to be challenged. This president has to communicate what he stands for, because he doesn't seem to fight for anything.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 12, 2011 at 11:05 a.m

Republicans in general believe that jobs are created by reducing regulation, democrats on the other hand believe that jobs are created by government spending money. Just because a bill does not meet the democrat criteria for creating jobs does not mean that the republicans have had no jobs bills.

frobert — August 12, 2011 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 11:30 - Could you please provide information on the "jobs bills" you are alluding to.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.

Off the top of my head

Didn't our local rep sponsor a bill to lighten the silviculture runoff standards?

Wasn't a bill defeated by democrats, that would have lifted the ban on U.S. produced light bulbs?

frobert — August 12, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Phillip Hinkle voted this year to constitutionally ban marriage between gay and lesbian couples.

Phillip is accused of cornering an 18 year old male and exposing himself. His e-mails are backing this up.

.............................................:)))))

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit & marathou - If history repeats itself, Obama will not be re-elected. No President since FDR has been re-elected with an unemployment rate at 8%. 1992 George Bush lost with 7.4% Carter in 1980 with 7.5% 76 Ford lost with 7.8% The CBO stated a few months ago before the economy took another downturn that at best unemployment would be at 8.2 come election day. If it drops to 8.2% this would be higher than when he took office at 7.7%. I think Obama is toast. I do not believe he will be re-elected due to the economy. People are tired and they will be ready to make a change. Another problem he has is independents. They decide the election and a recent Gallup poll shows that he only has a 34% approval rating among independents.

Woosker — August 12, 2011 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I heard this morning that the student loan debt in the US has now surpassed the credit card debt. And no jobs in sight for most of the students holding this debt.

My grandson graduated from WSU in May with a degree in biology and environmental science. The summer job which he had since high school was no longer available due to cuts in the school district budget. He had counted on this job to carry him through the summer while he searched for work in his field. He has been told over and over, there are no job openings in his field.

He is now flipping burgers at the Clark County Fair for 10 days. What then?

itiswritten — August 12, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- I meant something substantive and far reaching as I believe Allen's post was referring to.

LOL! The Bush sponsored light bulb issue was quite the chuckle when it was referenced last night. I believe by.....Congresswoman Bachman.

Woosker- Outside of RyanCare and a refusal to budge on revenue (something that is new and hard to nuance given history) the right is offering nothing new for fiscal policy. The Bush years are over and this President needs to start differentiating himself. It's going to be a choice between the corporatists/religious right and the rest of the country. As always...but this time there is more scrutiny being given to the right's ideals and policies. I believe this debt ceiling debacle has opened a few eyes. The recent recall victories and efforts in Wisconsin speaks volumes.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 12:17 p.m.

Check your facts the light bulb bill was democrats.

Allens post said ZERO jobs bills, therefore it was inaccurate.

frobert — August 12, 2011 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fro....LOL whatever. The word zero (as any other word) is held captive by that little word we can so easily ignore...context. Bush signed this bi-partisan energy saving bill in 2007. Quite insignificant given the totality of our problems...but believe what you will.

nailingit — August 12, 2011 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — August 12, 2011 at 12:01 p.m

You can't count on history to follow. This is has been an unusual Presidency to say the least. The problem now IMO, is the Repubs don't have a viable candidate and also have made a less than appealing showing in the House. I think they are going to have a hard time winning over anyone. And on top of that, their party has been further splintered by the "Tea Party" leaving them with fewer candidates and voters.

hawkeye — August 12, 2011 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

I agree with much of what you said here in the last few hours.. If you have a CEO and the businees isn't growing what do they do with the CEO.. Thats right Fire there A$$...Again I vote for the person and there platform not the party they come from..I think it's time to re do the tax codes and insure a fair tax to "everyone". That would be a huge start in the right direction..

rtsidethinker — August 12, 2011 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Coffee Party is planning a march on DC in October. They also have a neat "tool kit" for use in August Town Halls with your rep.

I truly wish we would have an open town hall with our rep. I wonder why The Columbian or another newspaper is not asking her about her reluctance to do so?

I think she is afraid.

Check out the Coffee Party plans and suggestions:

http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/enoughmarch

manthou — August 12, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - If the GOP wins independents it's over for Obama. Historically, 80% of undecided voters end up voting for the challenger. If our economy is in the same shape it is in now, I believe he will be voted out. Obama won his election by the youth vote and minority vote. Both were very excited about him as a candidate. In 2012, he will be faced with an electorate that is not so excited or is apathetic to him. Without those high numbers turning out and without independents, he will be a one term president.

Woosker — August 12, 2011 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — August 12, 2011 at 3:12 p.m

But then again, "The Donald" could come in as an independent as a spoiler and screw the whole thing up.

hawkeye — August 12, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - He sure could. The Donald has even said that he may do that if he doesn't like anyone running in the GOP.

Woosker — August 12, 2011 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 12, 2011 at 7:29 p.m.

????

frobert — August 12, 2011 at 11:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Oregonian placed an article about Vancouver on their website Thursday afternoon on a subject that I haven't found on The Columbian's site.

It seems the Vancouver City Council is seeking bids to build a park connecting the Renaissance Trail to the future downtown Vancouver Waterfront Park. The park will require about 8 acres of land, some of which is currently industrial or other use. Washington State has earmarked $500K for this park, and Vancouver has another $250K in their parks fund from developer assessments.

Is there a reason The Columbian doesn't consider this newsworthy?

Would part of the answer to this question tie to the fact that the Renaissance Trail has a section that's currently unsafe to use due to being washed out in the recent flooding? The article on that event said the washout was an erosion problem that will be very expensive to repair. Where will the money for this come from?

Is there a tie to the Tidewater Cove development? Meaning, are the developers of that area pushing for this connection to increase their ability to market the high end housing they've built?

I understand the concept that livability may help attract businesses to our area, but this project still seems wrong for our current economic times. The focus seems to be for walkers, runners and bikers, and throw in a few areas with benches for people to sit and look at the river.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow, roger! Good find in that Oregonian article! I think you hit the nail on the head with your following speculation:

"Is there a tie to the Tidewater Cove development? Meaning, are the developers of that area pushing for this connection to increase their ability to market the high end housing they've built?"

Tidewater Cove condos have retained their high-end price tag when all other real estate around them is plummeting. Not that they are selling. :}

Some of these parks funds are grants that are specifically ear-marked for land purchase only. They cannot be used for anything else. Maybe this is what is motivating the push?

I always appreciate that you have an eag;e-eye for these development issues and find some meaty information to discuss!

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou B never disappoints as the Master Provacateur. Press Talk has become the bully-in-the-playground. The little man syndrome in print.

I want this paper to be successful, and, if they have to tie their success to the number of Facebook comments they receive, so be it. But success is so much more. "Creating Community" should be inclusive.

Why dismiss and demean those of us (some long-time paid print subscribers, too) who have made the choice not to drink the Facebook Kool Aid? Why use an angry, disrespectful comment as your best example of our discourse here (alleycat: was that you?)?

Just to prod and provoke. Just to enjoy the squirm. (see the follow up on Jim Moeller).

From May 2011. If you only read part, concentrate on the final three paragraphs:

http://www.good.is/post/the-new-dinosaur-why-i-m-not-on-facebook-and-why-you-shouldn-t-be-either/

Facebook is a marketing tool. Those who participate are not customers, they are tools.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Here is a link to the article you mention:

http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/index.ssf/2011/08/vancouver_accepting_proposals_for_design_of_future_waterfront_park.html

This park is part of Gramor's waterfront development project, which includes the Boise Cascade property area to the West. The city has made a commitment to support this development.

Remember a poster named George_Vancouver? He posed the question long ago (a paraphrase summary): Is The Columbian soft on the city in its reporting because Scott Campbell has a pending land sale to them?

A good discussion never took hold on here about that. I do not know whether this land deal has closed, but his question raised a conflict-of-interest issue.

Maybe that is why you had to read about the new proposed park in The Oregonian.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Rick Perry is tossing his hat in the ring, but do we need another Republican Governor fundamentalist isolationist Texan? George Bush, with a complete face transplant, it seems to me.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Strange graph Lou uses to support his claim that facebook is catching up. Facebook is the orange line, has peaked, and is on a downward turn. (Kind of like our housing market here from 2000 to 2008 - will it continue to tank as more people quit facebook?) The blue numbers represent the 2010 comments, and were on the way up.

Why no comparison to the current anonymous side? And, as alleycat notes, try quality versus quantity - little smiley icons and "luv ya, Lou!!" type comments rank second behind the cut/paste neoCon arguments posted there.

And, for whatever it's worth, facebook has been targeted by anonymous. If these guys are able to follow through (and they're definitely capable), then....

roger — August 13, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy @ 7:59 am. Rick Perry makes Dubya look attractive by comparison.

I really worry about his appeal to the far right and how successful he might ultimately be.

I am dusting off the Canadian Landed Immigrant documents me and my family have, just in case.

Not kidding.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Good comment on the Press Talk graph at 8:03 am. If we can trust its source, right now it shows that the Facebook and Forum comments are reaching equality in numbers.

Three, four months from now, I would like to see it. Facebook is heading down. Forum is heading up. Will this continue?

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


G'mornin', alleycat: I was referring to the Forum comment the editor published in today's Press Talk.

While passionate and opinionated, not all comments are angry or disrespectful on the Forum. I think we do a pretty good job of self-monitoring.

My point: it might not be well-representative of what transpires here daily. But then, it would not make Press Talk the "Let's you and him fight" tool that it is.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

Good morning....Say if your for government not getting into your space why not be for more government deregulation then. In my job we have so much regulation that it makes our job so much harder and beyond that it limits our choices in our state to do business with whom we want...
To acusee Perry as a Religous zealout is quite the far reach, no more than Kennedy in the 60's... Matter of fact he used religion to get elected and was seen as one of our greatest presidents.
I see so many people being brainwashed by our media and beleiving what they hear and read but not experience.. And there is no way reasoning with these people..

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The strange bedfellows of fundamentalism and the Republican party is a frankenstein experiment gone amuk...

I went to the mountain, and prayed...God said, lower taxes? Its just--weird.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So much to discuss on this Saturday!

I had a thought about a viable challenger to Jaime H-B:

How 'bout Dennis Kucinich? He is exploring moving to WA state. Why not the 3rd District?

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Is he a democrat or independent?

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dennis Kucinich serves as a Democrat. Whether he would change to Independent is a good question. Maybe he will answer that.

He is seriously interested in leaving Ohio due to redistricting there and has been exploring the 10th District of WA.

Some think he is too far left. He might have the name recognition that a Tim Leavitt or ??? has.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It doesn't matter because he is what is wrong with Washington. he is the problem and not a fixer of the problem. You guys amaze me. On one hand you say vote them "ALL" out and then you say who can we put in against a republican.. Mangoboy: does it really matter if he is an Independent or democrat, arn't they the same or is being an Independent more like the Tea Party of the Republican party..
To me anyone saying they are an independent means they can't make up there own mind what they want to be.. WISHY WASHY.. Thats what we need more WISHY WASHY.. maybe that should be the new moniker of the Democratic party instead of Change and Hype...

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Clarification: I meant to say that Kucinich has GREATER name recognition than a Tim Leavitt or whomever local might challenge Jaime H-B.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kucinich seems more independent than democrat. I would support him if he would disavow association with the Democrats, and stop pretending he is one. He is a little confused on pro choice issues. Single Payer National Health Care will not work because the wealthy will opt out of the system and just buy the best care available in private clinics.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy at 8:38,

Roe vs. Wade. The Dems ran with this and supported using tax dollars for abortions. The Reps, who were on the verge of becoming insignificant, jumped at the chance to represent people who felt abortion was immoral due to their religious beliefs.

One could argue the Dems created the monster.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer-

Independent means you have your own mind and don't follow the crowd and think like a square headed robot-

It means being sick and tired of these two major parties lining up at the scrimmage line, lunging forward, and neither one makes progress.

It means not being bought and sold by special interests and lobbyist whores.

And it means not blindly rejecting every value or idea from the other side.

We have been on a downward trajectory for many years--we do not need more of the same...

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy: He may have to declare as an Independent in WA because Dwight Pelz, WA Democratic chair, was not welcoming of the idea of his running:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Why-is-Ohio-Congressman-Dennis-Kucinich-in-Seattle--122422664.html

I would give him a serious look and offer support. If Tim Leavitt is the best challenger out there, we are screwed.

You might be right about the wealthy opting out of a single payer system. "Concierge" or "Boutique" medicine is alive and well now in the Portland metro area. The gap between the haves and have nots will increase.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dennis has my vote. There's something in it for the baggers also. They seem to be drawn to the strong, attractive and outspoken womanly type, so his wife will serve them well. They will be able to find comfort and look to her in their times of doubt and questioning, much like they do with Sarah (MaMa Grizzzz) and Michele Bachman. Just a different perspective but I don't think that would matter to them.

vanwadreamer- If you had to vote and it was between Obama and Bachman, who would it be?

Obama or Bachman???

mango @ 7:59- NO

manthou...great thought process! Excellent choice. Dennis stands up for progressive values more than most and I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger-

The Republicans are well populated by Pro Life "Light" people. In name only...and rhetoric. If you are going to take a stand, then do something. Go stand in front of an abortion clinic and block access and get arrested. Otherwise, you are just a hypocrite. Sending in 50 dollars to ProLife America or sporting a bumper sticker doesn't count for anything.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Love the avatar, nailingit! :)

Elizabeth Kucinich is smart and was well on her way as an advocate for the poor and oppressed long before she met her husband.

Ain't life and love grand?

Kucinich for the 3rd District in 2012!

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elizabeth and Dennis Kucinich are EXACTLY what this town needs. It would bring our state and communities positive recognition and attention at the National level. Let's put Dennis in Congress! No one is anti-war and trumps the middle class more than this guy.

Congressman Kucinich. If you are reading this know that you and your family would be more than welcomed. You would have a fine home and strong grass roots support in Washington State.

It would be an honor sir, if you were to represent us.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Send him an email, nailingit.

I did!

http://kucinich.house.gov/Contact/Starter.htm

It accepts out of state residents, unlike most reps. Or maybe he is just accepting emails from WA and OH.

Anyway, let him know how you feel.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not one to criticize this paper. Having said that what is up with Lou's columns as of late? The quality has gone from at times smart and witty to dull and shallow. He references the basement in which he never indulges us with his time. For that matter no one else from the paper ventures here very often. Just Matt once in awhile and it's usually to set something straight. Lou seems to enjoy these "anonymous" insults he throws out once in a while.

It's my belief that the basement will be shut down well before the 2012 elections, and Lou will reference the "incivility" in the basement several times before doing so. Not because we make much of a difference.....but certain conservative business owners will demand it. I thinks it's the reason FB was instituted to begin with. Jaime's town hall was tooooo much and Dr. Sardonicus and others demanded this change.

Why is it that Lou doesn't quote some of the many positive comments that are made here? He speaks as if we are the enemy, and not local citizenry that contribute to our community.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,
Very well said... I do beleive though that the few Independents in congress get bought out and trade with each party most of the time but I guess thats politics.. I agree with the dumbing down theory.. I see it way too often everyday..
Nailingint- You made me laugh , I like your comparisoms.. Very Funny...Ma Ma Grizz... Why is it woman in red look so good??

I'm sorry but if I had to choose between those two I would have to say Neither as I personally can't stand either... I didn't vote for Obama as I saw through his promisses and big smile... He never gave any plans for what he was going to try and do during his election, talked people in circles...

Bachman, again just too far out there for me.. She just doesn't seem to be living in the same world as me..There isn't a declared presidential hopefull yet that I think can make a difference, hell I stand as good a chance as they do getting elected...

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link manthou!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Facebook is another way The Columbian can reach a greater potential audience, nailingit. It is a marketing tool that they HAVE to embrace.

Why he is marginalizing the anonymous Forums is that we are not linked to the fastest growing world-wide community.

Press Talk has become so snarky because the editor is scared.
______________________________________

Are you watching Rick Perry's speech right now? Hoo boy! I think we are looking at the Republican challenger. He has all the mojo that stirs up the base. And he is charismatic.

I do not like his politics and this country would be in trouble if he were to win.

Just my opinion.

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer......Someone has broken into your house and has a gun to the heads of all Republicans in the state. An explosive device has been placed in the center of the earth and will detonate if you don't make a decision on who you would vote for. Should this explosion happen it would cause the Earth to have a permanent tilt to the left. AAAHHHHHRRRGGGGGG!!! One Billion $$$ tax free will be donated to your household when you decide. God has promised you a new pair if you make a decision! No matter who you pick...tax rates will be ZERO on those making 1 million $$$ or more! It's promised that SS will be destroyed!

Bachman or Obama?????????????? The basement awaits your decision!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


America is looking for a heroic knight in shining armour to come to the rescue. There have been plenty of real leaders who have looked at it and opted out of the system. Because they know that real transformative ideas cannot survive the gauntlet of conventional politics. So we now have our heroes working quietly out of the system, doing creative things with like minded souls in business and public service. Dennis K is just a Don Quixote guy with a lot of spunk but doesn't realize his role and position is just a forum for ideas, he cannot get anything done legislatively. His votes of dissent are purely symbolic.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


SAN FRANCISCO -- Transit officials blocked cellphone reception in San Francisco train stations for three hours to disrupt planned demonstrations over a police shooting.

Just some more news that we're not getting.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mail,
Come on everyone knows that SS will not be around for when I retire... A new pair, where do you come up with the frivolity that makes one laugh so much.. OK, THIS IS A FACT.. there is no way on earth I would vote for OBAMA... He has no platform other than the BLAMING PLATFORM. He is the guy that needs a new PAIR>>> Ok, I'll take Bachman she is more attractive than "O"..

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 10:39...Did they slot Mubarack in for the Mayor's position?

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer. Thanks for your honesty!!!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou at 10:25,

The parties have to consider that whoever they put in front of us MUST appeal to the independent voter.

Perry can appeal to the Rep base all he wants. Once word gets out that Texas' "success" with job creation is largely in the oil production arena due to "shortages" there, and that a sizable percentage of the new jobs are minimum wage with no benefits (Texas shares the distinction with Louisiana in this area), then he'll lose his attraction.

Romney might have had a chance of beating anyone the Dems put up, though his "corporations are people" is definitely going to hurt him. The rest are ideologues. Cain was the perfect example - when it was pointed out that instead of creating jobs the corporations are paying their shareholders, his response was "what's wrong with that?" What's wrong is that we need jobs - which is what the Reps are nailing Obama on! Trickle down economics is a bad joke - the rich get richer and the rest of us can go to hell.

Conversely, the upcoming election was Obama's to lose. His recent performance against Speaker Boehner and Minority Leader McConnell have put him there - though he still has time to recover. But if I was the Dem leadership, I'd be looking for a replacement.

Billy Bob baggage and all - Hillary in 2012.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Take back the hell with Hill!!!"

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Though it's still early, I don't think Lou's column is working for him. No one seems to care about his friend Jim (part 2). It's all geared to his response to Alleycat (part 1), to include a cut/paste of Alley's challenge to Lou.

Must be a few fifth column types on the facebook side.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One could make the observation that the only Presidential race contenders with any cajones are female (Clinton, Bachmann and Palin). But I suppose that would be considered improper. And also that we males have been improperly labeling the source of intestinal fortitude all these years.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Just wrote to Rep. Kucinich. He could just be the spark that is needed!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dennis Kucinich and Rev. Jesse Jackson signed a letter of solidarity with Hugo Chávez in Venezuela in 2004. This will prove to be the one "aw s**t" that overrides everything decent that he's accomplished.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow!!! I originally spelled s**t out, and The Columbian hit me with a note to watch my potty mouth.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Any modern industrial/postindustrial society should be able to function with 10 or 15% unemployment. Every person filing for unemployment should also have a volunteer job somewhere and document it. And a family should be able ends meet with one adult working. We need to get away from the idea that the GNP is the most important indicator of the well being of people.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Does anyone know of any political differences between Perry and Bush?

They seem to share the same evangelical "Christian" beliefs as well as their ties to big oil.

He seems to have that "folksy" charm that independents go for. Let's hope independents look well beyond a pretty face/folksy persona this time around. I am still amazed at our 2004 election result. Never underestimate the power of stupidity.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley,

On the health Bill, did you figure thats how much it will cost your family a month $600..Can you elaborate? If so how did you calculate it??

Mango- How about those on unemployment go to like road crews or crews that clean up Parks and other city, county areas. It would keep your mind going while at the same time providing a service to the community..

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Howwwwwdy, Folks! Of all the comments I've read from this week's Columbian, the number one comment I must respond to is Lou Brancaccio's Press Talk. Here's the comment I am referring to which references those of us who are in the forum:

*"""You’re welcome to fight progress. Your choice. But as a mentor once told me: “You can get on the bus or you can get off the bus. But for goodness sake, don’t get in front of the bus.”"""*

Lou, what in the BLUE BLAZES do you think you're spewing out this week? You have the gaul, the nerve...to say because those of us who refuse to utilize facebook that we are fighting progress??? What in the ....??? Dude, you've got some BIG issues to contend with if you think that's progress. Maybe in the manner of progressing the dumbing down of society which you are wholeheartedly supporting with open arms and drooling over, sir.

Of course if you could "stoop" down to our meaaaaasly level of actually making a statement on the forum in response to my comment...I'm sure you will be your normal nasty self. Damn!!! You have really descended into the rut of society by thinking everything is Facebook or Twitter, Lou. I suggest you take the time out to watch the movie "Idiocracy," sir. It matches the mental status of those who believe WE are the ones who are ignoring progress.

Care for some "Brawndo" to go with your coffee, Lou???

Sheesh...

no....

DOUBLE SHEESH!!!

What a FREAKIN' waste of my time, spending it posting on this rag site!!! The only GOOD thing going for the Columbian's website lately is the Back Fence Forum.

Lou...shame on you.

goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How come Goldie can cuss and I can't?

roger — August 13, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Cuzz she cusses like a LADY:) uses words like double Sheesh..It's all good... I do like the comment from one of the FB folks. Don't count the number of comments , count the number of contributors, thats how you tell which side is larger.. But it doesn't take an IT person to figure out why some don't want to use facebook.. I made a comment when the FB side was going to start... Privacy and safety concerns..

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2011 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer at 12:26,

Being on a work crew while drawing unemployment goes counter to what is SUPPOSED to be the purpose of the program - to hold a family over while the person drawing it LOOKS for another job.

The system needs to be revamped - I agree there. But the problem goes beyond the unemployed person.

To maintain your unemployment you have to show you applied for a certain number of jobs each week - 3, I believe. The problem is, most people can no longer walk in and ask to apply for a job - everything is done with online applications, and we'll call you if interested. How freakin' demoralizing would that be - not even having the opportunity to clean up, chat with an employer for a moment, and hopefully do or say something to make a good impression?

Another problem was clearly pointed out with Jaime's little sobfest with her local employer meeting recently. We've got jobs, but no QUALIFIED people are applying? Total scheisse!! (Let's see if I can sneak this through - I can swear in quite a few languages - learned in the Army and from a couple of grandmother types.) As a couple of us said then - interview, select likely candidates, and TRAIN THEM!

Does the unemployment office set up job fairs? They should.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hah!!! Take that!!! Cussin' is cussin' - whether like a sailor, a lady, or a foreigner.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 1:12 p.m

LOL you crack me up Golden, by the way welcome back. How was your vacation?

When I read Lou's piece this morning I just figured he indulged a tad much in a certain fluid last night. Then did the old practice of hair of the dog this morning and it cause a fluid induced fantasy. :]

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Found this about Facebook..

People on Facebook.. sit and stare at a screen..They talk to themselves. .. They have imaginary friends, zoos, farms, cities and fake animals... They cook imaginary food in imaginary bakery's.. . They poke people and think its ok...they even write on walls... Think about it... Facebook is a mental hospital and they are all patients. Party in ward 7 tonight.

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat and vanwadreamer,

Concerning your discussion on health care a couple of hours ago.

Alleycat's post from MSNBC, and a similar one I found from CNN, say the average family of 4 paid over $13K per year in health insurance premiums in 2009. Kaiser was a source quoted. And this figure was coupled with employer contributions that actually took the cost over $20K.

That is for insurance - not health care itself!! Add in co-pays for when you actually go to the doctor, buy medications, etc.

No wonder over 50 million people were uninsured then. I'm sure that number has increased a bit.

Will someone please explain how a single payer, nationalized, or whatever, system could possibly cost more?

roger — August 13, 2011 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sooooo, all you political types on here.

Do any of you think the Dems will put anyone up against Obama? It seems to me that if a sitting President wants to run again, they just leave it at that.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I hope so hawk. It would cause Obama to clarify and justify his decision making. If a strong progressive would make a run it would be a good thing. As for who....I don't know. Hillary would be the one that could slot in $$$ & organization pretty quick. $$$ still a problem for anyone. I think Clinton is still in debt.

It's too bad we've let money limit the number as well as the quality of people running for President. It's indicative of the separative isolationist views that many Americans have, willing to sell out our country at any cost, in order to appease corporate interests while they serve at the stool of Mammon and declare God loves you.

If Corporations are people, why can't they be charged with a crime? Are we ever going to hold those accountable that brought on our recent financial problems? Obama is absent on this also.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jessica Bowen · Top Commenter · Seattle, Washington
"What's scary is this current administration's policies that are makng people poor and losing their jobs, homes, and retirement money."

Who is this ignorant twit? This administration has almost nothing to do with the policies that allowed corporate America to move jobs to Southeast Asia, with reducing taxes on corporations and the wealthy in the mistaken belief they will create jobs, with refusing to regulate the banking world even after their involvement with the mortgage market collapse, etc, etc. This administration has its flaws, some glaring, but it is not anywhere near the top of the list when it comes to assigning blame.

The diatribes of this girl are to be found on the facebook side just about every day. They are based on the ongoing attack on a BLACK President by a bunch of racist SOBs who can't get over the fact this is no longer a White Protestant nation. I am not a fan of Pres Obama - I consider him weak, and lost any inclination to vote for him again when he caved on his health care plan and tried selling the bogus end product as an accomplishment that would help the people of America. But these people are off the deep end.

And Lou would rather have them represent The Columbian's readership? As Alleycat noted this morning, we cover the entire political spectrum on this page. The difference is people here try to support their views with arguments - not regurgitated crap.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Bachman wins Iowa!!! LOL! It seems as though the tea is strong in the heartland.

1. Bachman 2.Paul 3.Pawlenty 4. Sanatorium 5.Perry

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


a write in for Perry #6...#5...a write in for Glenn Beck! LOL!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Deep fried butter on a stick and Michele Bachmann for President. Stewart and Colbert are sure to have fun with this Monday night.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


SALEM, Ore. (AP) -- Salem's largest medical marijuana club has a new office, and it's opening the doors for the public one day a week...The cannabis club and its resource center sets up patients with growers or plants and other supplies without cost...Salem Police Lt. Dave Okada says officers who work in the area haven't reported any problems or complaints about the club.

Wonder how many FBI agents have gotten Oregon medical marijuana cards so they can be introduced to growers?

roger — August 13, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, I crack YOU up...heck, your piece at 2:46 has me laughin' up a storm. You hit THAT one spot on! What is it called??? Farmville??? I guess that's the first farm that Monsanto hasn't poisoned yet...

unless they're the creators???

Keep a smilin'!!!

..

And Lou, I'm still waiting to see you stick your nose in the forum. It seems you don't visit here any more. Have you ...ahem... progressed too far to contact ALL your followers??? Are we the "Wasteland Scraps" now (referencing the movie Demolition Man...speaking of those in the underworld who refused to follow the "Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy world of Cocteau???" )Heck, you've already got the Morality Box in play. Are we going to be fined credits for potty mouths too???

Still can't figure out the three shells, yet.

goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Wonder how many FBI agents have gotten Oregon medical marijuana cards so they can be introduced to growers?"""

In my opinion...

not enough FBI agents!

goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So you're saying federal law trumps state law?

Would this fall under regulating interstate commerce, providing for the national defense, or what?

I really don't know the answer, and it seems the feds and the states can't sort this out either.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to be antagonistic, by the way. I'm getting VERY tired of the discussion on presidential candidates and party politics, and this seems like a reasonable sidetrack.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, I can't figure out those shells either, or the voters in Iowa. Or why Alleycat wants to wander the alleys of North Portland. What is it cat, the rats bigger over there? Oh, I forgot, you hang where you live.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I don't think it would have anything to do with ICC unless you took it over state lines.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"So you're saying federal law trumps state law?"

Roger, could you explain to me why it shouldn't?

goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I agree with Goldie (welcome back!). The supremacy clause in the Constitution dictates that, when there is a conflict between state and federal law, federal law wins. That is why, even if a state legalizes pot, let's say, the Feds can come in and shut it all down. :(

Here is a change-of-topic as our friend roger requested, but it is Facebook-timely: These flash mobs that are breaking out in Philly and other parts of the world are tied to social media sites like FB and Twitter. Wasn't the internet shut down in San Francisco recently to reduce the chance of mob mentality craziness?

Can you all see this happening more and more: police shutting down social media and internet for public safety?

manthou — August 13, 2011 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 5:01 p.m

LOL Golden I think what I found about FB hits right on. :]

Maybe the farm on FB is Monsanto's own farm they eat from, yeah that's it..fake farm, fake food for a company that wants us to eat foods poisoned with chemicals and from re-engineered seeds.

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Manthou. I'm back with more fire in my writes...no holds barred for me, lol.

ELISI...could that explain the feverish celebration by the FB application by our esteemed news publishing industry...deeming it such a winner because they could access their Farmville and other games a lot quicker???...er...during break time of course...yeah, that's it! I guess they had the munchies...

goldenoldie — August 13, 2011 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, goldie,

Supremacy clause vs. 10th Amendment - which trumps? Actually, I ran across a point when reading about the Controlled Substances Act - it claims marijuana can be regulated by Interstate Commerce restrictions because it MIGHT be sold/transported across state lines. That tells me the feds had to stretch to find a way to outlaw it. I'm not really concerned with marijuana itself (though I think it's impossible to stop the use of it); rather, I'm more interested in the conflicts between states and federal supremacy. This has cropped up frequently in our history, and obviously never clearly resolved (even with the Civil War). Right now, we've got states setting their own immigration policies because they say the feds have failed with stopping the influx of (allegedly) illegal Mexicans.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL Golden, could be, they race to see who can grow what the fastest. The one staffer that gets his/her harvest in on time wins the weekend off or...wait...I know...lunch or dinner at Beaches! Maybe Lou is buying?

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

You're correct - the cell towers were shut off to keep an expected riot over a shooting (or something) from being coordinated. It never happened, so I suppose BART was successful.

Can facebook, et.al., be blamed for the flash mobs? Did we blame CB radios for trucker blockades back when? It's hard to blame the medium, even when obviously an enabler. And government shutdown of service because someone might do something can restrict guiltless users, and would cause a problem if emergency calls were blocked. I'm sure the ACLU is all over this by now. Which means the technology will probably be obsolete long before an answer is reached.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, this is the wrong forum, but....

My rhododendrons barely flowered this year, after doing quite well the past 8 or 9 years. I did have a lot of yellowing leaves. I topped last year after blooming was over, and fertilized this Spring. Any advice for a rebound next year?

roger — August 13, 2011 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why are people opposed to abortion but in favor of capital punishment? Or the other way around? Aren't they the same thing - taking a life that someone determines shouldn't be allowed to continue? Shouldn't views on them be the same?

And if we're to say exceptions exist where capital punishment is appropriate, then shouldn't the same apply with abortion? Say for rape?

And we can argue all day about using tax dollars for abortion.

roger — August 13, 2011 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — August 13, 2011 at 8:02 p.m.

Oh, Allen. That's a stretch and a half. Where in the constitution does it say, you have the right to use your cell phone or Blackberry or notebook? You would have to go a looooooong way to convince me that cell phone use is free speech. If that were true then the cell phone companies could put towers everywhere without having to ask permission. Nice try though.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 13, 2011 at 7:53 p.m

Our Rhododendrons lacked blooms also. I have noticed some years are like that. The years we do a heavy pruning, the next spring we have less blossoms. It was so wet this year we didn't get the pruning done in time so we either leave until after the blooms next year or prune now and have less again next year.

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 13, 2011 at 8:18 p.m.

*Why are people opposed to abortion but in favor of capital punishment? Or the other way around? Aren't they the same thing - taking a life that someone determines shouldn't be allowed to continue? Shouldn't views on them be the same?*

I have often ask the same Roger,...Why is it that people support abortion but yet fight against capital punishment. I haven't received an answer from anyone in all the years I have asked. I usually get a dumbfounded look.. a quick change of topic..or a rant on abortion and why it is needed.
As far as a pregnancy by rape or incest, if you check that, occurs at about 1%. Even a doctor will tell you that.

As far as what I think, I am against abortion period. It to me is taking a life that has no voice, can't defend itself.

Capital punishment, I am for in cases like murder. Adult that murders another human being, planned, in cold blood deserves capital punishment.
If a man molests/rapes a child he should be castrated, same goes if a man rapes a woman.

ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-

Then by that logic, a woman who has an abortion should get capital punishment?

It seems more consistent to either be for both or against both.

Human life and all life is sacred. On the other hand, street justice is appropriate as the only sure way to make sure someone will not re-offend. It is not Capital Punishment in that case, but public safety.

mangoboy — August 13, 2011 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger/ELISI...

I'll weigh in on this one just a little. I believe abortion should be legal because I don't believe the government should have a say about anyone's body, however, I don't think abortions shouldn't be possible after the second trimester or when a baby can survive out of the womb. As far as capital punishment goes, Oregon has been dragging their feet WAY too long. Too many appeals. If you are going to use it as a deterrent, you have to actually do it once in a while.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, old-timers - I learned something about Lou today. I was told he was Mafia and ran the lottery, or something crazy. But the person insisted there was an episode where he knew the Oregon lottery numbers BEFORE they were picked, so I looked for that. And I discovered a page from a Univ of Florida magazine talking about this - it was about 2000 and Lou SAYS his computers went down, he accidentally ran an eastern state's numbers as Oregon's, and they turned out to be correct. Now, maybe the TV hosts of the shows he was on bought that story, but I don't. Notice how his facebook photo has that same disheveled look Robert Redford did in The Sting? There's more to that story than was admitted.

Which takes me to another point. Lou has disowned us - he wants to have nice conversations where he can pop in and say "Thanks all" and whatnot. This group says stuff that makes his head hurt. So, there's no reason to ask him why he doesn't pop in - he won't. We've been passed on to Matt. Well, here's the deal. MATT, YOU NEED TO WORK ON YOUR IMAGE if you're going to represent us. I mean, you're getting the pat phrases down - "remember to follow the rules" and "no personal insults" are good stuff. But your photo is so bland and generic - kind of like the two nameless guys on Fox News with Gretchen in the early A.M. You really need to come up with a photo we can be proud to point at and say "That's our Matt!!""

roger — August 13, 2011 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-roger...on the abortion issue, I suppose viability of human life and a woman's right to exercise free will concerning her body would rate right up there...isn't my passion, but ELISI, no answers in years?:)? roger, the only commonality seems to be extinction of life.

Tomorrow's Meet The Press is featuring the winner of the Ames Iowa straw pole, ex IRS tax collector, historian, current brain trust of America's tea bag party and front runner to receive the Republican nomination for the elected position of President of the United States of America......................MICHELE BACHMAN!!!

Tune in folks. She could be our next president. Don't think so? Think 2000-2008.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 9:20 p.m

Better be voting every Dem into the House and Senate if you think that's going to happen.

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 13, 2011 at 9:17 p.m.

I always thought he looked a little "slick".

hawkeye — August 13, 2011 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess we know who gets Ben Bernanke's job should Congresswoman Bachman get elected. This is what the GOP Presidential hopeful said in 2009 concerning the debt crisis.

~We need to simply tell people the facts, like Glenn Beck, with that chalkboard, that man can explain anything. I think if we give Glenn Beck the numbers, he can solve this.~ M.B.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- My thoughts exactly!

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Nothing like walking the line! You should most likely be prepared to back your claims up. I've got a buck that says your 9:17 post won't be here in the morning. And perhaps rightfully so.

nailingit — August 13, 2011 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Unborn children are innocent, convicted murderers are guilty.

The debate is not about what a woman does with her own body, it’s about what is done to the body of another.

Having said that, I believe Roe v. Wade was the best decision that could be made taking everything into account. I would guess this issue will only be resolved by some new technology of the future. “Health care” and” reproductive rights” are euphemisms. No public money should ever be used for abortions.

Morally, I don’t much care if some heinous murderer is put out of his of her misery, but mistakes are made, as has been made so very clear by DNA evidence being used years later to clear the wrongfullly convicted. Even some mental case can admit to a crime he or she did not commit. The devil is in the details. Because of these things, I believe the death penalty shoud not be an option. And there’s something unnerving about sharing that distinction with Iran, North Korea and Yemen.

kn_dalai — August 14, 2011 at 5:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Here's my reference. http://www.jou.ufl.edu/pubs/communigator/fall2001/washington.htm

My source that got me to search for it will remain anonymous.

My post was intended as humor. There's no way Lou, or anyone else, could have known the numbers before they were picked. I hope not, anyhow.

The second part, about Matt's image, what can I say??

roger — August 14, 2011 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Nailingit, Roger's post is still here at 7:00 am...most likely because it is based on verifiable data.

..

Roger...thanks for the smiles in your post at 9:17 pm. BTW, the problem of your Rhodie wouldn't be due to too much rain since they live wild in the rainforests around Mt. Hood. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with air pollution and possibly...just possibly...from the miniscule radioactive fallout from Fukushima. Also...if you have disturbed the roots, that could have a lot to do with the issues you are facing. There is also a couple of diseases that affect rhodies.

..

Alleycat...lurking??? Sounds so suspicious. BTW, I mentioned a comment by another person which included the FBI in the statement. Thanks for the link, though. I'll check it out.

goldenoldie — August 14, 2011 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Courtney has a column worth reading - she addressed the Jaime meeting and the "issue" of taxing small businesses. Seems it largely depends on how the owner handles the profits - leaving them as belonging to the business or transferring them to personal income. And she makes the point that this is simple accounting practice - why the owner Jaime had on her panel couldn't connect these dots might point to another agenda?

roger — August 14, 2011 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


John's column is also a good read, though I expect the people who back Gov Perry won't think so. He won me by starting out referencing Molly Ivins, who was always one of my favorite socio-political commentators - much in the vein of Mark Twain. So I'll admit to being biased. Great article - John!! You're at your best when you ruffle a few feathers.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


But there are more lurking in the wings.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm guessing Bachmann and Perry will beat each other up now. (Let's resurrect the Sex Pistols' tune Submission as Bachmann's theme. And Perry will become known as The Executioner.) Ron Paul will disappear (as usual), and Mitt will say something to antagonize "the base." Then Sarah can conclude her Tour of the Heartland (or whatever she's calling her extended vacation) and declare her candidacy.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I spent a good part of my life in Vegas. When someone suggested a prominent figure of the community had ties to organized crime it wasn't taken as "humor". Especially when that person is from Chicago. Kudo's to Lou for taking it in stride. For many people "mafia" isn't just something that's mentioned on cable TV. I wasn't referencing your rant about Matt...but it was a bit odd! Peace...no ill will meant.

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I meant to say "just" cable TV.

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit-

M Bachman will not be the front runner in the long run or short run...She won in Iowa because Perry was not there. Like they said last night if anyone wants to challenge perry they better bring a 21 point jobs grow plan or they won't be viable. Ron Paul does generate some interest but like Alley said his base is to narrow and on top of that he is an angry looking person..You need to look the part of calm which helps demostrates leadership..Perry will win the Nomination of the Republicans and the battle will be on.. If you want the same of what we have you'll vote like a lemming.. Be independent and informed... Make your vote count...
Alley- I think i'll go pillage the village this morning..Going to the market LOL..

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, read John's article and have to agree. Very well written, makes a good point with lots of humor. As always, he will be pillared by many.
I never understand that-his editorials are well written and make a good point. Let's compare to Lou- I usually have to read those a few times to get the gist of the rambling. If I can ever find the point. And the writing style, bad bad bad. Back to basic Writing 101 for Lou, IMO. So why does John get attacked weekly, and Lou gets praise? Naturally, many of the comments are his own (thanks, good job, good comments) but still...just curious.

luvithere — August 14, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

We can agree to disagree without animosity - one of the reasons I like this forum. My wife's family is Italian, and they also feel I toss the word Mafia around a little too freely, so....

roger — August 14, 2011 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Off to the zoo today -family time trumps commenting.

In closing, JOHN LAIRD IS MY HERO!!!

The facebook side's rabid chihuahua - Jessica - just had the temerity to snap at his heels. John turned and looked, and following the time honored tradition of big dogs, lifted his hind leg and pissed all over her.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL-careful Roger, or they will boot you for such nasty words

luvithere — August 14, 2011 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I too read Laird's comments this morning, very good and I'm sure we will hear more about Perry as well.

One thing I have to say though, that Jessica Bowen really has a bug someplace it shouldn't be.

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Roger, watch out for the bridge closings in P-town, lots today. They are full of bicycles.

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Andrea Damewood tells Mayor Leavitt "No Thanks" to his stipulation that Mayors Meeting discussions not be quoted in "All politics is local," so she is disinvited. Good decision by the Mayor, or Damewood?

mangoboy — August 14, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: At the risk of boring our good friends here with more political talk (sorry), I would like to know what you think of this scenario:

Let's say that Vice-President Biden switches roles with Hillary Clinton in 2012. Hillary runs as the Vice President to President Obama. This ticket wins. That would set Clinton up for a two term presidency.

Unless President Obama takes himself out of the race for the sake of the country (low probability), Hillary would not challenge him. Maybe she stands a better chance by being his Vice President for the final 4 years. I think that team is electable.

manthou — August 14, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**NEWS FLASH.**

Alleycat's true identity uncovered!

[See video for details!][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb45tJ...

kn_dalai — August 14, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — August 14, 2011 at 9:05 a.m.

You may be right. Was that in Portland?

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — August 14, 2011 at 8:59 a.m.

Just what does Timmy have to hide?

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

I said...*As far as what I think, I am against abortion period. It to me is taking a life that has no voice, can't defend itself.
Capital punishment, I am for in cases like murder. Adult that murders another human being, planned, in cold blood deserves capital punishment. If a man molests/rapes a child he should be castrated, same goes if a man rapes a woman.
ELISI — August 13, 2011 at 8:44 p.m.*

Yes, I am against abortion, but I can not and will not make that decision for others. Not even the government has the right to make that kind of decision for a woman.

Noticed I said "planned, in cold blood". If a person plans a murder and carries it out, yes they should receive capital punishment.

I have to ask, have you ever watched on msnbc the documentary series Lockup?
That program is an inside look and interview of those in prison.
One woman they interviewed was in for murder, she had tortured, murdered her boyfriend, and cut him in pieces. She was quite proud of what she did and gloated about it.

One prisoner in for multiple murders, his cell mate was in for killing his own mother. The guy killed his cell mate he stated cause the guy killed his own mom. Put the guy back in his bed, covered him up, crawled in bed and slept with the dead body of the man he murdered in the bottom bunk, guards had no clue until the next day what had happened. Again, this man was proud of what he did.

That brings me to Vancouver's own Wesley Allen Dodd. Kidnapped, molested, tortured, and murdered 2 little boys.
He was captured after he tried to kidnap another little boy and said he had planned to do to him the same as he'd done to the other 2 boys.

These are the kind that deserve capital punishment.

ELISI — August 14, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just what does Timmy have to hide?

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 9:34 a.m.

How many old movies had a scene where a reporter is asking someone "is that on the record", or "can I quote you on that?"

What Andrea seems to be telling the Mayor is she will not remain silent when told to do so. It makes me curious if she is doing this out of principle, or is there something she suspects or knows about the Mayor that is informing her instincts to have no part of whatever they might be cooking up.

mangoboy — August 14, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 9:00- Good Morning! Chris Matthews and a few others were saying this was a viable rumor (if that exists!) about a year ago. I remember having mixed feelings about it. One does have to wonder if it is being considered by some in his circle. Biden has said that foreign policy is his love and expertise, and being Chairman on the foreign Relations Committee as well as a ranking gun on the Armed Services Committee, dude brings a lot of girth and experience. I like his Afghan strategy much more than Obama's. Hillary would bring vision, something this President either does not have or does not care enough to fight for.

The downside that I see is age. Hill will be almost seventy. Not a determining factor, one could reference Reagan etc....but put an aging Hillary Clinton against say a Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley etc. the optics might not bode well. The other negative would be backing this president another four years, not just on foreign policy as is now, but healthcare, the freedom to collectively bargain, tax revenue...she would be expected to take a backseat on issues (I think) she is passionate about.

Having said all that...if no one steps up and challenges Obama, then something like this should be done. Obama shouldn't have to consider plan B options in the third year of his presidency. Unfortunately his inability to lead has put him in this situation. imho

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vawadreamer- The Republican fight that I think will be Brutal...is Perry V Romney! Christianity verses Christianity 2.0 will be on display and laid bare. The Perry/Bachman crowd tend to believe Mormonism is a cult birthed by Evil. The Mormon crowd tends to believe mainstream Christianity is wrong, and that they posses the only one true revelation of God. A lethal mix to a people who's platform is based heavily on their version of God influencing our political system.

Personally I could give a flying crap if the President is Christian, Jewish, Muslim (OH MY GOD!) Catholic, Adventist or whatever. One's belief in a God should not affect the election. But if a candidate believes they hear and obey God's voice then I suppose we should know what we are dealing with.

If it was an ill intended God then perhaps the candidate should be a disqualified. A destructive God that would say...scorch a portion of the earth with fire..torture people on earth because he wasn't happy...make people suffer an eternal hell on the grounds they did not use his name......oh yeah...well anyway!

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-I used to be adamantly in favor of the death penalty but have changed my mind in the last decade, based solely on the points Kn_d made @ 5:33

Although I believe when it comes to the abortion issue, a person's right to exercise control over their body is a huge part of the debate.

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 10:49: Thanks for sharing your opinion on that rumor. I do not think there is a Democrat alive who would challenge the President for the nomination.

Unless Obama decides not to run himself, the Hillary VP scenario is the only one that gives me comfort right now!

manthou — August 14, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, When there are eye witnesses, undeniable ones and evidence then yes capital punishment is in order.

The guy I mentioned that killed his cell mate, no denying he was the one since they were in a segregation area. That means no one leaves the cells but for 1 hr per day for personal hygiene.
The woman, she was found with her boyfriends blood all over her and she told them of each area (dumpsters) in the city where she deposited each of his body parts.

Some may say they did these heinous crimes due to mental illness. Sorry I don't buy that in most cases. It is clear more times than not that the person that committed murder is in full control mentally.

Now Kip Kinkel, there is one that I agree has mental issues.
Guilty of what he did, you bet he is, is he insane..only a trained professional can answer that. I don't believe he is insane (someone that sits in a corner and drools, hears voices etc) mental health issues, yes. Should he ever be returned to live in public again, not a chance a snowball has in hell.

Charlie Manson, insane?.. you bet he is, is he guilty of getting others to murder people? Yes again. Should he be allowed to live on the outside among us? Oh hell no!

ELISI — August 14, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- Please don't take this as inflammatory, and I truly don't mean it to be. Your 11:47 post is a good example of what my reasoning is. You are making judgements without the full weight of the evidence. Formulating opinion based on media. I understand what you are saying, it's where the law is drawn. I read Helter Skelter back in the day and no case is as intriguing as the Manson case! I remember a Tom Snyder interview in which Snyder jumped out of his chair in fear!

Personally I think professional juries could be part of the solution to help our justice system. It will never be perfect, but we can make it better. If juries are scrutinized and held accountable for their decision making, it could make a positive difference. Private companies could be used to outsource as long as certain criteria were met.

Carrot stick approach might be better than relying on preconceived ideas, prejudices, varying I.Q. and trust levels to judge our fellow human beings.

DAMN! Get me Obama on the phone! I got a jobs bill for him!

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree, couldn't give a flying rip what ones religous beleifs are..

I don't beleive we would be in this state we are if Hillary would have beaten out Obama.. I think Bill would have been a great person in the background to bring people together to get things passed that could have averted the financial mess were in.. Perry has created jobs during one of the nations worst economic times and unemployment in his state is relatively low... Still researching how he created jobs..

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney is UNELECTABLE.. Doesn't and can't get in touch with a large enough base..

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2011 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit---

where do I apply?

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou---Call me an idealist in the hard headed area! I'm still holding out hope that someone will present a challenge on the Democratic side! What about the ex Gov from Pennsylvania...Ed Rendell...anybody.....

HILLARY....SAVE US!!! HAHAHahahaaa..............sigh :((

vawadreamer- I agree. Clinton would not have tolerated the recent antics and I believe Clinton would have found common ground before 2010 and what happened in 010 never would have been. Also Clinton is white. I'll reference roger's post yesterday @ 3:58 because it's spot on. I think some of the resistance that Obama has received has been mired in racism. Not all or most...but enough to pervasively affect the GOP. But....in the words of Dandy Don...if if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all be home for Christmas!

Researching Texas jobs...think fast food and big oil!

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye...I wish I had a number or address!

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hillary said she was done after this term a few months ago. Said she couldn't see a second tour as Sec'y of State, and had no interest in Defense or the Veep spot. As I recall, she was going to take the enormous respect she's gained doing the current job and work as a private citizen on the women's issues that she's involved with.

There's a good point made by Leslie Bennetts in the Daily Beast for why the Democratic Party wouldn't/shouldn't pit Hillary against The Pres. "Longtime analysts also remember the carnage that ensued when Sen. Ted Kennedy challenged President Carter for the 1980 Democratic nomination, fracturing the party and paving the way for Ronald Reagan’s election. Four years earlier, Reagan himself had challenged an incumbent Republican, President Gerald Ford; Reagan lost the nomination, Ford lost the presidency, and Carter was elected."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/07/hillary-clinton-2012-calls-grow-with-anger-at-obama-debt-capitulation.html

However, the same article goes on to note that the Democratic base is becoming increasing frustrated with Obama's poor performance, so they could elect to go against conventional wisdom.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another possibility not getting much discussion is Joe Biden. There's been a lot of talk of him getting dropped from the ticket in 2012 for someone who'll attract swing state voters. I don't see Joe initiating a split so he can run, but if Pres Obama tosses him to the curb....

roger — August 14, 2011 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney is UNELECTABLE.. Doesn't and can't get in touch with a large enough base..
vanwadreamer — August 14, 2011 at 12:17 p.m.

Unless there's been a very recent change, polls have consistently shown Romney as the ONLY Republican who can attract the Independent vote needed to beat Pres Obama. His issue, as noted by vanwadreamer, is to get the party base itself to nominate him.

Romney is the perfect stable "one of us" that Corporate America would back. It'll be interesting to see who really runs the Republican Party in the upcoming year.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A couple of articles that suggest the positive buzz currently given to Governor Perry's job creating record in Texas isn't going to survive the close scrutiny of the Presidential race.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/06/27/the-cracks-in-rick-perrys-job-growth-record/

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/12/news/economy/perry_texas_jobs/

roger — August 14, 2011 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye,

You were right; I've never seen so many bicycles in my life - thousands more than the crowd making the ride from Seattle to Portland.

roger — August 14, 2011 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another thought.

Are we paying too much attention to the upcoming Presidential race? After all, the power inherent to that position is pretty minimal, as evident from the current squabble.

The REAL fight is going to be in Congress. Can the Dems take The House back? If they do, will we get Speaker Pelosi again? And if the Reps hold The House, will Cantor replace Boehner as Speaker?

roger — August 14, 2011 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow, Rick Perry is a real piece of work. You think we have trouble with the CRC....

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/rick-perry-biggest-controversies

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Evening, all.

I had a grueling bumper-to-bumper drive to Seattle tonight and had talk radio on to help pass the time. There was a very fascinating piece about the Apostolic Reformation (Dominion) group that supports Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann. I think it is important to get a handle on understanding its doctrine, as both candidates tend to blur the line between church and state.

Salon has the most current piece on it and I assume we will see more as the candidates jockey for position:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/14/dominionism-michele-bachmann-and-rick-perry-s-dangerous-religious-bond.html

manthou — August 14, 2011 at 9:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — August 14, 2011 at 9:52 p.m.

That's a little scarey and a lot extreme.

hawkeye — August 14, 2011 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou & hawkeye- Rachel Maddow did a long segment on these nut job "patriots" late last week. Conservatives are ruining this country, and it's not an accident. What used to be a radical, vocal few of about 20% of the Republican party, now seems more like 70%. These indoctrinated deadbeat down and outers have been emboldened by a weak president and a disengaged public. They use politics as a tool to achieve their personal nirvana and delight in destroying America's way of life.

Perhaps in the upcoming months the usage of the word treason should be implemented. And used in the context of political tea party activists conspiring, colluding, and committing overt acts (i.e. holding the debt ceiling hostage) to bring about their extreme agenda, in order to cause the downfall of our country. And the president was culpable as well by failing to lead in the face of a threat. Some type of disciplinary measure for Obama is in order.

Somebody needs to take the lead and shake it up quick..or these corporate bagger/conservatives are going to dominate our political structure once again.

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...and on the lighter side...:))

nailingit — August 14, 2011 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Forum Login