Open Forum, Aug. 29 - Sept. 4



Most read stories on, week of Aug. 21:

No. 1) Infant killed, 3 injured in accident on I-5 near Hazel Dell

No. 2) Police investigating 'suspicious death' in Vancouver

No. 3) Man jumps from seventh floor at hospital; commits suicide

No. 4) $200,000 bail set in crash that killed baby

No. 5) Semi loses driveshaft, two cars hit it, one car explodes on I-5

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"President Barack Obama is calling on Americans to rekindle the spirit of unity that characterized the response to the Sept. 11 attacks. "It can be a lasting virtue," he said. "Not just on one day, but every day."

And what a response...invasion of other countries, the killing of hundreds of thousands, the near bankruptcy of our treasury,

Yes Bin Laden is gone, Sadam Huessin is gone, Al Quada is severely impacted.

But has radical Islam been defeated? Are we the Titantic, steaming ahead, in denial of the fatal wound we have received?

From the ashes of 9/11, the Freedom Tower emerges, an awesome engineering feat and monument. But where is it's twin? With the tower of Freedom, there must also be the tower of Responsibility. Its not a glamorous or patriotic or Hollywood word, but a necessary concept. The marketing department probably explained it would be impossible to sell it to the American people...

mangoboy — August 29, 2011 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Alleycat,

Hawthorne was my neighborhood for about 7 years, and I enjoyed it very much.
But lately-having a suburban lifestyle. Yesterday, Birthday Party at Chuck E Cheese. Not a bad place if you pick a low attendance day. And they even have Hefferviezen on tap. They try to enforce a one beer an hour limit but it is easily circumvented. LOL!

mangoboy — August 29, 2011 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mangoboy, good post at 6:44 am.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Mangoboy...I responded on last week's forum to you regarding elder care. I decided to put a copy here on this week's forum to you and for everyone else to see as the experience our family had to endure was deplorable. Here's what I'd said:

Mangoboy, your post on August 28th at 8:32 a.m. hit home base with me. In my opinion, what I had to witness with my mother's care at a skilled nursing facility in memory care would have been enough to close down the entire facility...but it's a plague which hits each and every SNF out there. I believe part of the problem is the fact that there aren't enough people out there who are dedicated enough to understanding the needs of the elderly whose mental capacities are failing. They don't take into account that some of these people are full-blown diabetics who need nightly visits to the bathroom and many of the patients' buzzers requesting assistance go unanswered which in my mother's case, ended with a hip with multiple fractures, unable to be replaced and her dying of complications. Another issue is money. Yes, money. If the SNF is short on funding and is not making the profits they need, they will under staff their facility to keep their profits within the margin they must keep.

It's a vicious end to quality lives of the elderly when they are forced to live in these facilities...a condemnation of sorts...and yes, I'm quite bitter with SNF's. I'd seen three in operation while my mother was moved from place to place because they could no longer maintain her care due to her injuries sustained in the accident. I've checked out reviews of a few dozen other SNF's and it's the same thing...same complaint read.

God help us all as we approach the time where we need assistance in life. It is my wish that home care is the only way to go. That way, the folks who provide the assistance SHOULD be fully qualified...

maybe new regulations should be in play, Mango.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for sharing your experience, which unfortunately is all too common, with many variations.

We lost both of our parents in the last few years, but we were able to keep them at home for most of the time. It was a difficult situation but also a blessing...

mangoboy — August 29, 2011 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There are 30 comments for Congresswoman Herrera Beutler @

This seems to be the closest we'll get to a townhall. Lots or questions about her signing the pledge, healthcare, jobs,.....There is even a comment from a listener in Pacific County asking about the lack of townhalls....

Show (live) starts at 9:00 AM

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning all, I posted this last night but thought I'd do it again for this week;

Un --friggin--believable;

SARASOTA, Fla. (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann said Sunday that she would consider oil and natural gas drilling in the Everglades if it can be done without harming the environment.Bachmann, who wants to get rid of the federal Environmental Protection Agency, said she would rely on experts to determine whether drilling can be done without harming the environment.

Now there's a great plan, rely on experts to tell you the truth. How did that work out for the people who trusted Bernie Madoff as an "expert"?

hawkeye — August 29, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Sporty, I hope I'm not putting a dark cloud over your persona today...but......

I agree TOTALLY with you about Lady Gaga!!! Skank is the best description I've heard yet when it comes to her.

Sorry Alley. It appears to me that Lady Gaga only has to perform in the manner she does in order to gather attention because she couldn't get it any other way...and sometimes, it's the wrong message-especially to the impressionable youngsters of today. SportyJames just said it as they saw it and I concur...except for that 4-word descriptive at the end, lol.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You're right, Mangoboy. It may be a different medical situation, different people...but basically the same thing - the lack of people skilled in dedicated care for every person.

The hardest part for me was that I was not physically able to care for my mother in the needs that demanded a lot of lifting...and that tore me up because I had told my mother for many years that I would never willingly place her in one of those facilities. It was out of my hands when she was placed there, even though I screamed and kicked, cursed and cried out of pure frustration. (Okay, maybe not the kicking expletive, but you know what I mean).

It haunts me, knowing I couldn't care for my mother in her golden years and I'm sure there's a lot of families who feel the same way.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK sporty, that's the first time you and I have ever agreed on anything. +1

hawkeye — August 29, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Because school starts soon

And, a bit obliquely, because it fits to the Mangoboy / goldenoldie thread.

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Some of you are pretty crude concerning GAGA. Has anyone here ever met her? Are you aware of her causes and contributions she makes to our society? Not only that but she's an incredible musician! Skank? Goldenoldie you never disappoint.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, Ipod tuned to OPB, fully charged cell in pocket. I'm out to turn the compost and turn over a new for next spring garden bed that has had 3" of horse bedding covering it (yes, Matt - that is a real stable product) for the last couple of months.

So, if you hear a somewhat out of breath w/ chickens clucking in the background question, that'd be me.

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As to Lady Gaga: I do not like her music and her antics. I am not sure why people think she is so great. Good for her for being charitable etc - but her music still stinks. But that is an opinion. And we can like/dislike any music we want, it is always opinion.

As to the comments for HB on the link provided: holy cow. Is it me or are most of them actually negative? Then there is the birther who took the opportunity to spout his insane nonsense. Wonder if the lady will read any of this? She should. Might give her a taste of what people here actually think.

luvithere — August 29, 2011 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere- Personal opinion and derogatory insults are two different things. She doesn't perform the type of music I'm into, but she's extremely talented.

I'm glad my question was addressed at length...but I don't have a clearer understanding other then the GOP points she spoke to. Perhaps if she wasn't nervously giggling half the time her interview would have went better. It's clear she's in way over her head. One of her finest achievements seem to have been reading a GOP sponsored bill before she signed it, of which she endlessly blathered about. She came across as an empty head being filled with tea party drivel.

Is this the best we can do?

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well I am just not sure Gaga is a talented musician. Anytime the tech music overshouts the singer and the dance on stage overtakes the singing, I take a few looks to see if the singer is actually talented. half the time i see/hear no talent except by the choreographer. But that's just my opinion. Maybe I am just too old for this stuff.
If our Jamie refuses to listen to **all** of the people in her district, then we can vote her out. There got to be somebody better out here than her. She could start by being a bit more accessible; inviting a select few and listening to just a select few and spouting the party line will not wash anymore in the future. I think all sides are tired of that.

luvithere — August 29, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow, that was rather a bust.... one phone call, the announcer didn't push but on one JHB claim and then let her slide anyway (ALEC).

I think one question based on the comments on the site.

And what does the C political blog cover? A scam email with Lew as the res expert......

Her last twitter post was 10 aug, she doesn't respond to email, holds 'secret' tele cons, no townhalls, no response to queries about townhalls......

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere- I'm into a lot fo different music but primarily play and listen to blues, rock and the varied nuances that blend which can't be categorized, but like to leave myself to be musically open minded. GaGa's got great pipes and ivory skills as well as many others..dancing, etc. I agree everyone has an opinion. The only thing I objected to was a couple here calling Lady GaGa a skank.

This lack of town halls needs to cease and desist. As taxpayers we need to demand town halls and except nothing less. We need solid answers from solid people. Jaime kept saying we need to have blah blah discussions in our country about blah blah this and blah blah that. I guess she couldn't wrap her head around that it was precisely the point of her radio interview to do this. Amazing

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

we can do better than that. There has got to be somebody with the wits and intelligence to fill Jamie's shoes.

As to Gaga: I still get the Le(a)d out (ha!). I just cannot stand that new type of music for too long. Boy, old(er) people. I sound like my Dad, yep.

luvithere — August 29, 2011 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

From her 'latest' Facebook

Jaime Herrera Beutler
Putting the focus back on jobs. Read about our job creators forum earlier this week:

Herrera Beutler hears concerns from local business owners | The Columbian
When federal policies create winners and losers, more often than not, small businesses end up losing out, leaders from a dozen Southwest Washington companies told U.S. Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, R-Camas, on Monday. At an invitation-only Vancouver gathering that included contractors, a dentist, a h...
**August 10 at 2:39pm · Like · Comment**
Charles Snell, Melissa Neal, P.k. Thumbi and 5 others like this.

**Heidi Gow Your absence at the gathering in the front of your office at noon today was painfully obvious. What do I need to do (or believe?) to get an invite?
August 10 at 4:12pm**

So it seems she is taking here 'recess' seriously.

Too bad she hasn't -in real life or virtually - seen it fit to show up at any playground......

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

alley @ 10:08...nice to hear another old geezers viewpoint on music! Well said alleycat.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

meaning I consider myself as an "old geezer" also.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

have to disagree with your last comment about the guy who shot the congresswoman.. he is mentally impaired.. I don't think or beleive that or healthcare had much to do with it. With that said do we do enough for the citizens of our country in health care.. Certainly not.. We do need to overhaul the health care industry, make it affordable to get good health care and not HAVE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS on another plan. We should have an affordable plan for everyone..

vanwadreamer — August 29, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, end of the show the host asked if JHB would respond to some of the comments from listeners/ readers on the Behind the Scenes" page. JHB said yes.

Here is the link to that page:

I can see the ad now, audio clip from TOL, screenshot of BTS, then a list of townhalls, restaurant 'coffee's, announcements of 'upcoming' tele-talks, screenshot of almost month old front page of official site,... Then screenshot of her facebook:
Committed to serving Southwest Washington's 3rd District.
Please keep in touch via our e-newsletter, you can sign up today at

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The GOP’s Mythical Jobs Agenda
Adam Hersh, an economist at the Center for American Progress Action Fund
Aug 26, 2011 at 1:15 pm

All told, the Republican budget would kill an estimated 1 million jobs.
The budget, however, wasn’t the only indication of the GOP’s priorities. The Republican “jobs agenda” presents a litany of bills that in fact provide explicit subsidies for corporate oil, coal, and gas producers. Those subsidies, and the stranglehold big oil, coal, and gas companies have on national energy policy, are blocking the development of a fledgling advanced technology manufacturing industry that will create jobs right here in the United States: the renewable energy industry. While the rest of the world, including China, is fighting to develop a future based on renewable energy, the Republican “jobs agenda” would keep the U.S. mired in early 20th century technology.
But perhaps no policy is a bigger jobs-and-growth killer than the unregulated financial predation and speculation that created the housing bubble, financial crisis, and economic weakness the U.S. economy now faces. But the Republican “jobs agenda” works tirelessly to recreate the financial policy conditions that created those crises in the first place. On the GOP’s agenda are plans to:

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 11:21 a.m.

Would that be the same Adam Hersh, that said about the housing market in 2005 "no bubble, just a little effervescence"

frobert — August 29, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit and Alleycat, methinks you guys are quite opinionated when it comes to someone else's thoughts they share. I never said the woman doesn't do good things for charity. I said I don't like the woman and believe her concerts and videos are reflective of someone who portrays themselves in the manner she displays. I still agree with SportyJames.

With regards to being a granny... I've never denied that. I'm a proud granny at 53 and I enjoy modern music. Would it shock you if I told you I like music by the group, Rise Against??? I also enjoy music by Red Hot Chili Peppers, System of a Down, Green Day, Beyonce', Madonna and a plethora of other musical groups from all venues including Jazz, R&B;, Classic Rock, Golden Oldies of the 40's-70's (hence my penname - duh!), bluegrass, cajun, foreign classics and of course...classical music, along with other musical styles. Does that mean I dislike what the musicians do beyond the songs? No it does not. Does that mean I don't support their charitable functions? No it does not. As far as I'm concerned, GAGA is trying to be a bad girl with a twist of Madonna, Pink and Gwen Stefani. I think she'd be much better off tuning her vocal chords and showing her natural beauty rather than the works of ...ahem...

creativity on stage with all the make up, wigs and "interesting" costumes and dance routine. As far as her "artistic style....."

A smudge of dung thrust onto a painter's canvas by an elephant is considered artistic nowadays. It's just not MY style. Get the point???

Again...this is just my humble opinion.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — August 29, 2011 at 11:42 a.m.

Wow, you don't even get a 'nice try' on that one.

Yup, he said that:

And the ref was in regard to the linked to hearings; note they refer to Greenspan's testimony "apparent froth" "Moreover, a decline in the national housing price level would need to be substantial to trigger a significant rise in foreclosures, because the vast majority of homeowners have built up substantial equity in their homes despite large mortgage-market-financed withdrawals of home equity in recent years."

Yup, he said that: as in sarcastic.

Also see: "Harmless little bubbles, enthuses David Lereah, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors: “Yes, there’s froth in the markets, but froth can be healthy,” he says. “It’s not necessarily a bad word. When I think of froth, I could think of effervescence rather than some popping of bubbles.“

I actually laughed out loud at that one. Yes, Alan Greenspan’s “froth” comment wasn’t warning us about bubbles, it was pointing out the fabulous “effervescence” of today’s market! "

So, we have an attempt, a very failed attempt, at attacking the messenger rather than anything substantive about the content of the post.

- sigh -

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Alleycat, you say Jaime Herrera-Beutler is done??? A freshman in Congress in a dead economy is through because you didn't see her perform miracles??? Well Alley...I guess we could settle with career politicians, huh. Look at all the wonderful things they have done for us??? You say...and I quote

*"I was wondering what can she do? She is not an economist, nor an attorney, nor a leader, nor a revolutionary in ideas, not well versed in anything... She is a complete failure so far. She hides afraid of what citizens will say when they call her out.*"

Care to share your detailed proof that she is not well versed in anything and that she's a complete failure so far? It isn't her lack of communication skills. Funny, in recent weeks, I sent several emails asking questions and received all but one response rather swiftly...and that one response??? Not her fault. I received a notice in my in box that delivery was not successful. She has no problem answering the people. It just might be something you don't want to hear, Alley.

So Alleycat, how many times have you talked to the woman, called her number, sent her emails, sent her snail mail??? How many of those coffee gatherings have you attended in order to talk to her?

Oh wait!!!

You reside in Portland...ahhhh, but you own property here in Washington and in international locations so you have all the right to complain, huh! What about Denny Heck? He's a nice guy...a positive thinker for the 3rd Congressional District...someone who might have been elected but wasn't. Why is it that HE wasn't elected, Alley??? Was it because of what he did in the past? No...because he made a difference for Clark County at the County level. So what could have possibly made it so that he wasn't elected??? Could it be the problem of past elected officials with a "D" behind their name in that position as well as other positions in congress who have failed the people by raising taxes and earmarking special interests? Could it be that the folks in the 3rd Congressional District are tired of being the sapping point for ridiculous taxes and we see the OBVIOUS need for downsizing of our current administration and increased control on our daily lives by our government???

Alley, who'd you vote for congress in 2010? What have they done in a little over a year and a half? Any newbies or are you going for those "career" dudes???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And'd best concern yourself with the congressional members working side by side right now with Senator Patty Murray...trying to decide what needs to be cut and what needs to be saved when it comes to the Budget issues. THAT my friend...will be the deciding factor in just how good each side is working FOR the people of the United States of America instead of working FOR their political affiliations.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah but Bachman seems smarter!

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey armchair politician!!! Yeah you at 12:44 pm!!! If you think you can do a better job than what we have in DC, the State Level, the County Level or the City Level...then what are you doing wasting your time here???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's called the blame game, blame everyone else except the one in the mirror.. Mr Baird never answered a single email or snail mail sent to him by my hands. When i called his office however he had a very effective person working there that did tell me where and what he was doing and I'm sure he will be getting back to me. he has to answer "litteraly thousands of emails.. Hum. They probably weren't the type I was sending him though. Probably why I never got any returned..
I too would ask you to personally see her or email her your particular questions and share them with us.. It would be interesting reading none the less.. Unless you send her an email from the foreign country you own property in she might not

vanwadreamer — August 29, 2011 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vanwadreamer, I had said Alleycat claims he owns property in a foreign country. I do not.

But you're right. It IS the blame game. BTW, I had the same problem with BB never responding. That disconnect is never good for any politician. I did like how he picked up on doing Town Halls, though. I sometimes wonder if he realized that things weren't being run like they used to and he got discouraged in his position and knew it was time to leave the congressional world.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 12:47.....LOL!!!

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you are receiving email answers from JHB you must be the exception. I am certainly not the only one not receiving responses. I have emailed three times to date.

Since she is so inexperienced why isn't she out and about talking with people, getting in touch with the average working/non working person on the street? It seems to me that an appearance at the Farmers Market would be the perfect location to talk with small business owners and workers alike. As far as the coffee get togethers, has there been one in Vancouver? In my opinion, her lack of public appearances makes her seem a bit cowardly. If one runs for public office then one needs to learn how to face the public.

Hard to say if she is a complete failure...YET...


itiswritten — August 29, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 12:34 p.m.
*Funny, in recent weeks, I sent several emails asking questions and received all but one response rather swiftly..*

Could you share the address? All I've gotten were canned responses and those took from several days to 2+ weeks.

None of which included invites to either a tele-townhall or a restaurant-townhall.

And that is with a Camas address

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Please everyone check out this link. Pass it on to others. We need to let our elected ones know how we feel about this.
You don't like the idea of products in our market that come from China? Read the link....get mad like I am.

ELISI — August 29, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BB was certainly tired and worn down.. The last several years lacked any energy and Enthusiasm...I guess he knew it ws the end of the road and the town halls, I would also like to attend one of anyone from our district...Mondays however are bad for me..LOL.

Basil, I only received the canned ones from BB also.. never anything of the topic to which I sent it on. I also have to admit sending two emails to Jamie with no response either..

It is written,
I like your ideas of getting out in the communities.. She would most definitely learn and earn more respect that way and the people who she see, would at least get to see her in their neighborhood which is always good PR.. She has been in office a very short time, Don't know of any campain promisses she has broken yet.. So much negativity from so many on here and her coffee deal this morning.. I think thats the real problem..Everyone thinks they know everything with the use of the internet.. Everything that gets written is taken for gospel either by the left or right.. Lord knows there are a few on here that certainly do...

But I would certainly like to ask her a couple questions for sure.. Revamping the tax codes, healthcare reform, capping donations to a particualar party or person running for office, Revamping SS.. Just to name a few of my favorites..

vanwadreamer — August 29, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well itiswritten...out of curiosity...has anybody seen Patty Murray or any other DC politician very much in Vancouver since 2010? Does that mean they are all failures? Anybody know that Jaime has sent three bills up to the table since 2010? One of them was a request for all government officials to take a 10% pay cut. It doesn't sound much, but if every government entity/organization found a way to trim 10% off of their budget without finding a way to increase the budget....

at least it's a start. Now we have 12 members of an elite group of Super Committee members who in the past 5 years have raked up more than $3m in special interest group funding...groups who faced potential cuts, according to the link below:

So some are complaining about what JHB isn't doing, yet I don't hear anything from the same people complaining about what the number one group in control of setting the budget cuts is doing. Seems to me, we should all stop blaming one or the other and start screaming for our government to work for US instead of the special interest groups.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No problemo, Sir Basil! I've signed up for her newsletter in the past and there's a link to send her an email whenever we receive the newsletter. Expect to give some private information when you submit, though. Anyhow, I've contacted her through the link on this webpage:

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Alleycat, you remind me of something I saw on a video sent to me by a friend. I can almost see the steam coming out of your ears and, reddening of your face and the stomping of your foot right now. You say I didn't know better, huh. Well, Alley...I wish Peter Defazio would be here in Washington State, but he's not. I wish he would run for Pres, but he's not. Did I make a mistake with JHB? No I don't think I did. In your eyes, you might think so, but I think she's got potential and I believe a lot of people thought the same as I did. She's a Freshman Congresswoman and #1, it's quite a transition from local politics to DC politics. #2, she has made some headway in DC with propositions...not sitting around doing nothing as you'd like to say. #3 She makes sure her voice is heard in DC. #4, it has been said she votes partisan yet in the voting record below, there are several votes which went in the opposite direction of how she voted. Following the leader???? I don't think so.

Here's her voting record in DC:;=412486

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 1:52 p.m.

That's the address I've used. Interesting how different the responses seem..

Are you getting canned boilerplate responses or specific answers to your questions?

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 2:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A bit of both, Basil. She has a tendency to start with extreme concern, answers my questions...then goes on to what she's trying to accomplish in that "boilerplate response" you mentioned. Sometimes it takes more than one email to get the entire answer your requested in the first place. All in all, it's the type of response I'd expect from someone so new in DC politics.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

alleycat — August 29, 2011 at 2:24 p.m.

He was the cult leader making him the one doing the brainwashing, not the brainwashed.

If Jeffs wants to use his religious freedom to starve himself to death, why is the government stopping him?

frobert — August 29, 2011 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The reason people called Lady GAGA a skank is because if they used the terms that were a true description of her, they would be kicked out of the forum.

cranky — August 29, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've had the personal displeasure of meeting, and speaking to Herrera one on one for an extended period of time. All the words that spring to mind to describe her would get my comment removed. Jaime can't do town hall meetings because she can't hold up her fake exterior. When I talked to her on behalf of the youth group I helped run, about not voting to eliminate hope beds she told me that she only helps those who help themselves first. Hope beds are emergency beds for foster children in shelters when there isn't an available placement in a foster home. Jaime doesn't care about the people she is supposed to protect and she doesn't care about the people who elected her. This is a status symbol for her. Thats all.

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 2:30 p.m.

Well, I'll send her a couple of followup questions based on the ThinkOutLoud interview this morning. When the transcript is available.

I'll post the response.

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2011 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve, you bring an honest and open experience to the front of the forum which needs to be taken seriously by our governing officials as well as every single one of us. The children in foster care didn't ask to be placed there. Unfortunately, this is something which has so many ties to government control and what it has done to the people of our society...something of which I continuously mention the importance of reduction of such a control on all of us. What I speak is such a vast discussion and it's obvious I don't have enough room to say all. It is so sad whenever I hear of someone so distanced from the actual reality of life for those who are either too broke to take care of their children, are in jail or have committed a crime in which the children had to be removed from their family or the child was in such trouble while living at home, they were placed in foster care. So sad, but I do blame our government for many reasons as well as mass media for the degradation of the family unit. With taxation out of control as more PC laws are put into the books, along with the failure of stopping the cartel from entering in our southern borders and allowing illegals to reside and utilize our healthcare system and retirement system through their use of family member SSI numbers without a fingerprint check, a failed economy and so many out of work, losing their homes, their cars which would have taken them to work and families divided and so on and so forth. Who is it that allowed health care to become so expensive??? Who is it that deregulated what should have been allowed to remain regulated? Who is it that bailed out the crooked bank executives and left families in the dust? Many things to consider in this situation, Gen. It's not just the lack of caring of foster children. It's much, much more.


goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also, our schools are in disrepair; education has faltered to a new low and basic skills are overlooked as the young child is placed into the next grade, putting them in harms way for failure in adulthood yet the budgets for these schools keeps increasing and they ask for more and more money. Then there's issues like replacing bridges which are fully functional...but it's because of trying to keep up with Europe. And do we need high speed rail? Will it improve the system??? And why should the government pay for it?

Jaime Herrera isn't the problem. She's part of the problem. Yes, I voted for her as I voted for Obama and several other politicos who are now in DC or in Clark County positions. As long as we have the right to vote, we will exercise the right to vote, no matter how flawed the system is...but we need to keep on their back sides to do the right thing...and many aren't.

You see Gen, it's not just JHB and it's not the rest of our government who needs to take charge. Every single one of us has our own duty to rethink our lives, to better our situation and we DON'T need the government for every little thing. If you look at historical elections, you will notice how it has bounced back and forth from R to D and back again...with a few hiccups of course. It isn't working and as long as we are allowed to become so dependent on our government to come to our rescue for every single thing...

Just who is failing??? We ALL need to look in the mirror on that one. Now's the time to take charge of our lives and help those who need the help. We can't count on a broke government to keep making paper money financed by other nations.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

All I'm trying to tell you Genevieve, is that everything is in such disarray and nobody can honestly take the time to say "Okay, here's the plan. We eliminate this and that, strengthen this...put that on hold. We can't worry about this because that is much more important." Heck, the government hasn't been able to do that in the past 30 years...what makes you think they'll prioritize effectively now???

To correct the problem, it begins at home. Reduction of dependence on our government is always a good start. It'll be difficult for some...heck, for many...but it all can be done. Without the needs in certain areas, the government could afford to make the cuts. Certain grants for special interest projects should always be the first place to look for cuts. Hopefully Senator Murray and her cohorts will screen those and make the right decisions, but I'd doubt it since they've been "boosted" by special interests according to the article link I presented.


That's why I say politics is so gosh darned confusing!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve @ 2:48...Thanks for the personal insight you shared about Herrera. It does not go unnoticed by most.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @3:12 pm...

***TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!*** It was mentally exhausting just getting it into words, lolol!!! I got out what I wanted to get out, so for now I guess I'll step away from the forum for a time out and give you guys a breather from my lengthy writes. My vegetables can't remove the weeds themselves and I'm procrastinating.

Okay now nailingit!!! Be nice...I can hear you cheer from my home office!!! **(s)**

keep smiling!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


as long as the government(s) require me to send money to them, I demand some service, so to speak. You're right, government can't fix every little thing, but the problem is governments should have enough money to do far more than they claim is possible. Ex, there never seems to be a lack of billions of dollars to a new generation of tanks, planes, etc, but medicare, with it's 8% contribution to the deficit is top on the list of cuts? Examples such as this abound-no need going on.

These slash and cut morons, JHB among them, better be careful what they wish for, In this economy, they might get it and then we'll all get it, and it won't be good.

mrd — August 29, 2011 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wish there was an easy solution to the problem, mrd. I see a lot of government waste...Monsanto for one. How they have manipulated the system so that they can sue farmers whose crops are non-GM and some of Monsanto's seeds managed to mingle with the farmer's Monsanto all rights to sue...What the...????? And the USFW fighting Humane Society for the rights of sea lions at Bonneville Dam...

I'm curious as to how much federal tax dollars have gone into both of those issues...and they AREN'T the only ones, either.


no, make that a double sigh....

Now I've really got to get pulling those little weed starts in and around my new vegetable starts.


goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and I don't use Roundup and don't have Roundup-ready vegetable seeds in my garden. (A purposeful dig against Monsanto, of course).


goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now alley, is that an electric guitar or are you playing Guitar Hero, lol. Just teasin'. Break Time!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with you we need to get our representatives in check. They seem to be forgetting that they aren't voting on behalf of big business or their biggest campaign contributer but on behalf of their constituents. Our money needs to be spent more effectively. When I get a $693 dollar paycheck from McDonalds for working 80 hours I see less the 550 dollars of it and I know its far worse for people with real professions and real paychecks. A grade nine fresh out of first semester consumer mathematics could tell you there is something wrong with this picture. If we lived in a socialist country and where paying 20-30 percent tax for college, health care, and social programs that everyone could use when necessary, that would be one thing but its not. We pay for things the majority of Americans don't want, like wars, foreign aide, and enforcing petty laws while people are without jobs, and homes. There are so many things we could do to cure our economic woes but instead we dig ourselves into a deeper and deeper hole.

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you for your insight regarding your meeting with JHB, not a big surprise.


Everything you mentioned in your postings is true, our community as well as the whole country is falling apart which is exactly why our LOCAL representaive needs to get out in the community and talk with the people, the foster children, the foster parents, the workers/non workers and on and on. She missed her opportunity during the past five weeks "at home"

Just saying,


itiswritten — August 29, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Why aren't these loud mouthed baggers rejecting government assistance from FEMA?

Everything wrong with our country is government...until you need them.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 4:04 p.m

Maybe because FEMA is and always has been a total failure.

frobert — August 29, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let me begin by saying I am not a particular fan of Lady Gaga (aka a Little Monster). However, I wonder if some who commented here understand irony, sarcasm, artistic expression? She was trying to make a point (ie. Male video of the year, Female video of the year, etc.) that she finds gender differentiation in music pointless and why can't the artists compete on equal footing, etc.

Was her delivery so subtle that you did not understand her point possibly? Hard to fathom.

This may come as a shock to some but besides attempting to make a point, she was also making what some refer to as a "joke". Tough to gather, I know.

Anyway, as for being a "skank" not sure what that has to do with the music. LOTS of musicians and other artists are sleeping around and this has been true for (well, ever I guess). So Billie Holiday, Nina Simone, etc were not known for their fidelity either; does that make them bad artists? What about men who sing and dance and "gasp" dress scantily and have sex!

I'm sure you will all either a.) understand and finally grasp her point, or b.) get offended and flip out as usual.

PadmaRani — August 29, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Why aren't these loud mouthed baggers rejecting government assistance from FEMA?*

Ever live through a tornado? Ever seen the devastation one does to a community, farms up close and real, not on TV?
I have nailingit and believe me you wouldn't say that if you had.
That government assistance program was set up by the government for disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, funded by the taxpayers.
I wonder who'd you go to if your home was destroyed, and you lost everything you owned..or you owned a business and watched how you lost your entire inventory, machinery,..or a farm and lost not only your home but the crops that would help feed your family, community for the next year. Bet you'd be first in line for those FEMA papers..

ELISI — August 29, 2011 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It sure is hard to make or eek out a living on minimum wage for sure...I've been there and thank god I've learned and kept lessons from those days...I think you'll find however that even the most progessive countries like Sweeden, Norway and such pay 50% in personal income tax. What is happening now there just like here is that people are living longer thus continuing to draw upon the limited resources that wre created from the taxes..

I just read something off Yahoo news that I said or spewed 2 years ago.. We bailed out banks, but for those who still are paying on time thier mortgage and barely able too, why now do a mortgage remodification plan for those.. This would lower your monthly mortage and enable you to use that money to buy ther products which in the end would stimulate he economy..It would be better for the banks as they lose more on forclosures sales than they would if you were still living in your home. It would releive allot stress on the average homeowner, Joe Middle Class.. I sent that to Mr Baird and no response.. I sent it to Patty Murray No response.. I will send it to JHB and see what kind of response I'll get..

stikoutking — August 29, 2011 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn straight I would miss my whole point.


nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I've been away today for a few hours and I just got caught up.

As far as JHB goes, she works for me/us. As a taxpaying citizen of this state, she is my employee and my employee has been lying to me. She got this job on false pretenses by telling all of us what she was going to do and has failed to do that. As far as I'm concerned, she's fired!

hawkeye — August 29, 2011 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you PadmaRani, for reminding us it's about equality, and bringing it home.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

fro- Your response makes no sense. All the more reason to refuse FEMA aid if that is the prevalent thought with those in your bagger community. I know your resident prophet/apostle Paul wants to abolish FEMA, leaving it to the private sector.

Why don't all the baggers just purchase an island someplace, fill it with supplies and live there. They don't seem to like the America they grew up in. I'm always amused at those who "want to take our country back". Why would someone want to take back something never understood or appreciated. But only to deny it from those who have.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

stikoutking — August 29, 2011 at 4:52 p.m

Canada is a socialist country and their taxes for a individual/ family are under 25 % for the most part even when you combine provincial and federal taxes.

There are socialist countries where the taxes are higher but look at all the extra services they get for their money. Canada is a good example because their taxes are about the same as ours even though they have national health care, government run food banks and far better social assistance programs then we do. Also the lowest minimum wage in Canada is 8.75 in B.C. as apposed to the US where it is $5.15 in Wyoming (Lower in some territories).

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stikoutking, I couldn't agree more with you that JHB SHOULD have more public exposure with the folks who voted her in. Honestly though...none of us know her actual schedule OR what she does behind the scenes and that's what leads so many people to wonder if she's actually doing her job or not. I understand the dislike regarding her because of the "appearance" of just being there to be a pretty face. I think two years isn't enough time to perform miracles when the rest of the government is in the same boat. Why is it that in 2008, the individuals who were elected to do their jobs to make the US a stronger nation...but all we've witnessed is a double recession, two wars still going on after 10 years and more people in food lines at rescue missions, begging on street corners, living in their cars or under a bridge, adult kids living back at home with their parents, petty crime on the rise as people are stealing not just for drug money but for food? Is that the improvement we've all been hoping for...because if it is, I certainly don't want it and I'd highly doubt if anybody else does either. So do we blame one person? Do we blame the government? Do we place the blame on anybody or is this something we ALL should take some *responsibility* for the mess we're in?

Stikoutking, I ask you this...have you ever used a credit card to buy something you just had to have like a flatscreen television? The computer you are using right now??? Well, many people have purchased items for materialistic needs...and the times have changed. Jobs were lost, money wasn't coming in and they were used to a lifestyle they couldn't change. Some of those people...some who I know personally...max out those same cards now...not for material items but for paying bills and buying food. They have maxed out because they can't afford to pay cash and can't wait till the next check. They made purchases during the crunch that they shouldn't have made, now buy necessities and pay necessary bills and the problem is not getting better for them. They could take a second job...that is, if companies were hiring. Oh...and those companies??? They too relied on a certain line of credit and now the banks are tightening up.

So who's to blame for that predicament? Is anybody to blame or is this the new normal??? Credit card companies (banks) were bailed out by the government...but the people weren't.

sigh...Too many issues in today's world!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 3:52 p.m.

I sometimes wonder if there *IS* any answer to all of this mess we're living in.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the info.. So i just called my brother in Chilliwack BC. Great insight from his perspective..They have tax brackets as we do.. They also have on average 12-14% sales tax on most all items except certain food items..Each state also has it's own income tax like we don't have here in Washington but they do in Oregon..
Between the Federal, Provincial income tax he pays roughly 34% of his gross annual income. But on top of that he pay about 12% in sales tax on most purchases not counting most food items. In adition to that he owns a home that is worth 185K which he cannot deduct from his taxes...he is in his late 40's and has seen a great amount of change these past ten years also..

You must also take in that Canada's Millitary is 30 times smaller than that of the US or in dollars and cents.. canada spends 21Billion a year versus the US spent 692 Billion last year. The us uses much of our tax dollars on our millitary..some would say too much at times.. these are just some examples..

My brother thinks they get very good health care. there are many changes that need to get done..But to sit here and say I know what they are or I know how to get them done would not be accurate.. the President was right in 2008 on one thing,, That we needed change, sorry to say he is not the person to see that through, who is Don't know that either..

stikoutking — August 29, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well speak of the endgame...something I'm not ready to engage in and it's not a joke. All I know is I make the best of each new day and offer help where I can to the people whose lives I touch. I cannot come up with the right answer when it comes to politics and it is obvious my opinion doesn't set well with some of you on here...but I know I can make a difference in my life and hopefully the lives of others by reaching out to help them, no matter how minor the gift of caring can be. Politics will always be there...and the ups and DOWNS of our economic situation is always around no matter if we agree or disagree, but even joking about death is not in my book, sir. Life is just too precious to rush things along. Respect life.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2011 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There is an answer.

1. End the wars, bring our troops home, right there according to conservative estimates we could cut half a trillion in spending.

2. No more foreign aide, as selfish as it sounds we don't have the money and you should take care of your own before being charitable.

3. Close tax loopholes

4. Stop trying to regulate and make criminals out of regular citizens, if it only hurts the person committing the "crime" don't make it a crime. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to keep a person in jail for a year, that money could be going to pay off our national debt!

5. Make drugs legal. Have the government produce drugs and sell them in liquor stores. It would be safer, purer, less addicting and we could tax them insanely and still have it be cheaper then on the street. It would also eliminate the millions we spend on the war on drugs and we would need less police officers since they wouldn't be spending all their time making possession busts.

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — August 29, 2011 at 8:26 p.m

I don't think people that some would term as a low informed voter is necessarily stupid. I'd say they most likely depend on the media to inform them who and what to vote for and what to believe. I call them sheeples and the media the pied piper.

ELISI — August 29, 2011 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve! Right on! This is the side of Libertarian thought (rational as well) that I've embraced for years. Although I would disagree on zero foreign aid, (most likely because I've learned through many years of living abroad, as well as getting old and soft hearted), that we are all in this game of life equally. The richest country in the world ought to be able to reach out to the poorest to some degree. Helping to curb famine and disease helps us all and it's the right thing to do. We just don't have enough Bill Gates and Warren Buffet's in the world. Just doing the things you mentioned would free up $$ quite a bit. But yeah, priority spending go's to the country we fund and live in.

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen @ 8:26...Thorazine?

I thought I would inject a little humor Allen! Your posts are some of my favorites. "If I am correct on that, I also agree". If I may steal that from you, I would like to make it part of my everyday vernacular. The next time I disagree with my better half, that mantra shall be my sword!

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Accolades to Kathie Durbin, for publishing what is to date (at least that I'm aware of) the best facial pic of Jaime yet. (see article on healthcare) Sizzlin! And yes, someone needed to note this publicly, regardless of how shallow it might come across. She could be the next Sarah Palin for the Baggers! She does need to work on the nervous giggles as she grasps for answers. Substance wise, she's already passed Sarah!

nailingit — August 29, 2011 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another article on Herrera (pic not as flattering)...No Town Halls! No Surprise! Next November, No Jaime!

Allen @ 4:34 (man you get up early!) Great idea on price freeze. If the baggers want to freeze spending, then let's freeze rising costs.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve, I absolutely agree with your solutions on August 29, 2011 at 7:59 p.m, but what you are asking for is a miracle with the current elected ones as well as the future elected ones. As long as there's a split in sides in government, what you see is what we will continue to get.


Nailingit, your temper tantrum for not seeing a town hall gathering for JHB is getting old. Instead, she's been hitting the places which are usually ignored...small towns...places where the people feel isolated from the feds. She's going for the phone town halls and she's going directly to the source on issues facing imminent decisions in DC. I'm not saying I agree with all her decisions as I do not, but I am noticing a Freshman Congresswoman doing things not a lot of the seasoned folks in DC are bothering to do.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and she (JHB)just may get my vote - then again, maybe not. Only time will tell.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A temper tantrum for expecting our Congresswoman to address the public at large? You will go to any length to defend the Republican elite. Perhaps I'm in the minority. Perhaps it is throwing a tantrum to expect our elected to speak with us. Perhaps you blindly make excuses for those that push your ultra-conservative agenda.

Perhaps we should require a litmus test of sorts for the voting public.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Come on Nailingit-where do you come off even thinking GO has a ultra conservative agenda? That goes way overboard.
Seems to me she has said repeatedly that she votes both sides as she sees fit.

She voted for Jamie-wrong IMO, but it does not imply any agenda at all. Let's try to be a bit more open around here before we sound like DC itself: opinionated to the point of no return, stuck on our platform, unwilling to budge.
That goes for everybody, not just picking on you. And I agree-Jamie needs to speak to rest of us, not just the handpicked few.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh nailingit my hypersensitive fellow member of the basement, in due time she will be addressing the public at due time. I'm not defending anybody btw. Just sharing my observation much like you are doing. Pushing *MY* ultra-conservative agenda??? Oh you are so funny this morning! So very clever with your little inaccuracies, nail.

As far as the type of agenda I have...let's see...

planting carrot seeds, bunching onion seeds, preparing bed for new lettuce, taking relative out to lunch today, picking up a birthday cake and a few groceries, making four loaves of zucchini bread and two pans of meatloaf.

Well, I guess that's a "conservative" list on my agenda today. I wouldn't say that it's an "Ultra-Conservative" agenda, though.


goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lots of folks on the FB side already throwing "temper tantrums". This is one more nail in Jamie's political coffin she has built for herself. She is done. I bet this article produces the most FB comments on the C yet.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail: her select coffee shop meetings will be the nail in the coffin. people seem to wake up to the fact that access to Jamie is very very selective, limited to the chosen. Answers from her staff aren't helping either. I think we are looking at a one-termer here for sure.
What I hold against her the most is her platform of jobs she ran on and now has totally forgotten. I am unwilling to give her extra time on that as she was unwilling to give the prez any time to fix the disaster caused by Bush et al over the last few years.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and goldenoldie, everyone that posts carry on with their everyday lives. i.e. cooking, gardening. What does that have to do with defending Jaime Herrera's decision not to address the public at large? You choose to hide behind your apron and lettuce after posting such a ridiculous, partisan statement defending Herrera?

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, you only have to repeat your comment about JHB's future about one more time in order for at least one person to believe it as fact. What is it they say??? It takes repeating the same message about 10 times before someone will perceive the message as factual??? Have you convinced yourself yet? What you aren't reading are the comments by those who are silent...who actually don't waste their time on Facebook or the Basement and keep their comments to themselves, voting on what they perceive as the right decision in elections. Nail, if you count the number of different people commenting on the FB and Basement, then compare that to the number of people who voted in the 3rd Congressional will come to the reality that we are not part of the majority with our little tet - a - tet's we engage in every day here. The voters have spoken and in November, they will again. If she's voted out, she's voted out no biggie. If not...well nail...that's something you'll have to come to grips with and realize the majority would prefer her to represent them in DC.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh nail, you are so funny. The only comments I make are not defending anyone but when I see obvious attacks which are unsubstantiated or are stretched to fit someone's own personal hatred for another just because they have an "R" or a "D" behind their name while they work in office...I will say something from a different perspective.

My point regarding my gardening and cooking is that I'm not going to let the heat of any debate get the best of me. Life goes on and I intend to continue to make my life the best it can be even without the nailingits and JHB's in my life. So now my sparring friend...this is where my Conservative Agenda in the garden and home take preference over your highly agitated rants.

have a nice morning

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 8:09 .. Your logic makes sense to me. I think it will be the prevailing thought next year with Congress as well. As to where I come off about goldenoldie's views, her post defending Jaime without waver, as well as other countless, endless, unending innumerable posts she presents daily speaks to my point. :)) But hey...I have so many questions about politics and just trying to understand can be so gosh darn confusing!

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops...I've got garlic harvest, bean harvest, checking the apple and pear trees to see if the fruit is ready, apple cake to bake and more zucchini harvest to do too. Maybe it IS an ultra conservative agenda I live by...since I'm ultraconserving my grocery money by growing my own vegetables and fruit and preserving them for the winter months. Gotta get it done before harvesting firewood so we can ultraconserve on our electricity bill, too!


goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Goldie, you are sticking up for the girl but I'm not sure why. The little coffee shop meetings are designed to get support from her "friends" and not to have any questions thrown at her that she might not have the answers to. She is avoiding all confrontation and even her telephone town hall meetings, the people on the phone are screened as to their questions and only get to ask the questions if Jamie gives prior approval.

I was surprised to see the responses to the article on the FB side, as of my reading, there were no positive posts. Kind of makes you wonder.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 8:14..."What you aren't reading are comments by those who are silent..."

All righty would be correct with that one goldenoldie! :))

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, I really do believe Jamie is a goner next election. People are waking up to her empty skirt politics. I see no positive comments any more on FB side either.
Of course, I also see nobody good who could run against her. A new person? Another career politician? Not sure.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, at least she isn't blaming the hurricane on God wanting the government to balance the budget, like Bachmann.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Without waiver??? Oh are on a roll (right over the edge in fact) this morning! Guess you only read and comprehend what you want to read, huh. Also...yes, I've been looking for convincing argument from the side opposite to what I have voted in the past 4 years as I questioned why I voted the way I did and when it comes to JHB, haven't convinced me yet and neither has anybody else. You know I voted for BHO...he hasn't convinced me yet that he's doing the job right and the other side of the ticket hasn't proven to me that they could do a better job either. So Nail, if you can't stand what I write, why don't you click on Ignore User??? It's there for you to use at any time...but we all know you won't because you couldn't stand seeing goldie's avatar with no message, right??? Come know you love a good sparring match and you know all too well that I'm the one you choose to spar against, huh!!!

Now I've really got to head out to the garden or I will never stay on my "Ultraconservative Agenda" for the day.


luvitherre, I don't think she's backed off on her plan to bring in jobs. I'm thinking reality has hit the representative in the face...reality that you can't make jobs out of thin air and that the jobs will come once companies begin to spend again. I think she has come to the reality that it isn't the government's responsibility to generate jobs, so she will at least do her part in bringing the companies to the people in a jobs fair, although job fairs are like yard sales. They're everywhere...but if people just aren't hiring and are tightening their belts...

but of course, this is just my opinion.

...and thanks for the 7:52 am comment. I'm glad someone can see through the polluted rants of my sparring buddy.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 29, 2011 at 7:59 p.m.

Those are very broad, overly general libertarian talking points;

So, let's see the specifics.

*1-End the wars, ... half a trillion in spending.*

No argument about the first half. Now, what about utilization of the manpower when the military is abolished? What expectations are on the free market , etc?

*2-No more foreign aide, of your own before being charitable.*

No humanitarian aid outside our borders? In spite of our country's policies that have helped create the conditions requiring humanitarian aid?

What government programs will see increases in aid for Americans since you say "should take care of your own ". Or does that mean just a budget reduction and some sort of legerdemain will happen for assistance to American citizens?

*3-Close tax loopholes*

OK, I understand a value of fairness, but what is your vision of a perfect system? How do you know that it is fair to all?

*4-Stop trying to regulate and make criminals out of regular citizens, if it only hurts the person committing the "crime" don't make it a crime.*

Specific examples?

5a-*Make drugs legal.*

All drugs?
This includes alcohol and tobacco?

5b -*Have the government produce drugs and sell them in liquor stores.*

What about the person who wants a 25 yr. old peat smoked, french oak barreled scotch? Or wine made from grapes hit with the first frost? Or retro blotter paper LSD?

*5c -It would be safer, purer, less addicting -*


5d-*and we could tax them insanely and still have it be cheaper then on the street. *

So, we'd still have the same enforcement levels? Just aimed at 'speakeasy' type enforcement?

5e - *It would also eliminate the millions we spend on the war on drugs and we would need less police officers since they wouldn't be spending all their time making possession busts.*

So basically, we'd be having police and drug enforcement looking for illegal (by laws that earlier you wanted eliminated) production and distribution.

Now, the really serious question; Why did you spend so much more 'ink' and thought on drugs (without really defining them) than on say, our health care system? Or environmental issues? Or food safety? Or transportation issues? Or urban planning? Or elderly care? Or schools? Or infrastructure? Or......?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, you may be right in your assumption regarding her avoiding controversy but the true test on her skills in government is the test of time...and it's running short for her. As I had said before in another post...If she's re-elected, it's what the majority of the voters want. If she is not...oh well, no biggie.

You see Hawk, I have lost my faith in the government fixing the current issues. As has been said before, we NEED to end the two wars and get our servicemen and women home. We NEED to stop helping all the other countries with charitable contributions and fixate on our own nation. I couldn't have agreed more with those two talking points as well as eliminating the tax loopholes by Gen. The other two talking points...controversial at best. Her last one sounds good when written, but will we eliminate the problem altogether??? The second to the last one...I'm not sure what she means when she says "Stop trying to regulate and make criminals out of regular citizens, if it only hurts the person committing the "crime" don't make it a crime." Are we speaking of the duii driver who slams into a tree, damaging their car and injuring themselves? As far as I'm concerned on that one...once the Deewee is on the road, they impact all of us...a prevention by removal of the person from society is what is needed. I'd like to see examples by Gen. (How about it, Genevieve?)

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anytime, Golden.
But if Jamie has started to realize all this about jobs, then we can also say Obama has started to realize the same. If I give a little rep more time, then I am willing to give the prez a lot more time.

What I want from her is access. She owes the voters that much - all of the voters, not just a few biz owners handpicked. We are paying her salary for her work-not to take another 5 week vacation. we all should have it as good.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Could be, luvithere...could be.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The part of Genevieve's conversation with Herrara that bothers me is "when I talked to her on behalf of the youth group I helped run, about not voting to eliminate hope beds she told me that she only helps those who help themselves first."

So Herrara has a litmus test of some kind for worthy causes, which excludes the act of helping someone unconditionally. If someone comes to Herrara's door, obviously needing food, medical care, or clothing, first, she wants to interview you and find out if you are worthy of help.

In addition, there is something non conservative and inefficient about her approach. It invites more government workers to administer and interview and follow up with people who are being helped. It invites more intruding into peoples lives. And it increases government bureaucratic waste.

These are two more examples of Republican beliefs and attitudes that I find outdated and immoral.

mangoboy — August 30, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, I just got an email from---- guess who? I sent her a letter a month and a half ago, so glad her assistant could get back to me in a timely matter.

August 30, 2011

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting me regarding the federal budget and debt ceiling. It is an honor to represent the people of Southwest Washington, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

I voted for the Budget Control Act of 2011, the bipartisan agreement to address the debt crisis, but I share your frustrations over the process leading up to this agreement. All along, I've said we need a solution that avoids a government default and meets three conditions that reflect our region's values. This bipartisan agreement meets all of those conditions. First, it does not raise taxes on the small businesses or families in Southwest Washington who are already struggling to survive this economic recession. Second, it ensures seniors will receive their Social Security payments without disruption and protects that critical program in the long-term. In fact, Social Security is specifically exempted from cuts in the bill. Third, the bill addresses DC's habit of overspending and puts the country back on a financially responsible path. This bipartisan agreement signals the first time in modern U.S. history where raising the debt ceiling was coupled with an agreement to cut more than $2 trillion in wasteful spending.

It is not a perfect plan. For instance, I would have liked a firmer commitment to a balanced budget, which would mean no more debt ceiling crises ever again, and not every spending reform is where I would like it. However, with this agreement, the U.S. will be able to meet its obligations, and the deal builds a framework to end overspending in DC. There is plenty more work to do, and I encourage the White House and my colleagues in Congress to get back to work with me on fixing the economy and creating more jobs.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. I invite you to visit my website at for additional information or to sign up to be kept up to date on these issues. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can ever be of assistance.


Jaime Herrera Beutler
Member of Congress

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Get a clue, Alleycat. I didn't screw up as you claim. Our government has screwed up and it happened long before JHB was elected. Get a clue Alleycat. As long as our divided government continues to operate in the manner it does, our situation isn't going to improve. Get a clue Alleycat that we are forced to make decisions based on the manipulation of words to confuse the voters, the officials who are bought and paid for by the elitists of our world for their own personal interests. Get a clue, Alleycat. You reside in Oregon, not Washington and your own state has screwed up as well. Get a clue alleycat. Wake up and smell the roses and stop your stupid attacks.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 7:30 a.m.

*Instead, she's been hitting the places which are usually ignored...small towns..*

Camas isn't exactly 'small town', esp considering it is basically another bedroom community for Portland.

*.places where the people feel isolated from the feds.*

I have no idea what you mean by 'isolated from the feds'. Those that aren't getting a sense of representation? Those who feel they need a stronger presence in terms of support or enforcement or maintenance of infrastructure?

*She's going for the phone town halls and she's going directly to the source on issues facing imminent decisions in DC.*

What, 3 or 4 tele conferences that we, the people have no way of knowing who were the chosen few? How they were chosen? Why they should be considered representative of the population?

Look at today's health care article; 10 people. How many are employed in the field? Public health care represented? Only one hospital / corp. represented. No school officials. No vet representation. No small clinic representation.......

A couple of coffee shop 'meets'? Her handler says they were necessarily small because the coffeeshop was small.... So a deliberate choice made to limit access.

And both venues were repeatedly unannounced, no press invites.

And that is access?

Take a look at her home page. Check the choices on the survey. Note that there is no way to enter what is 'other'. Another example of limiting discussion to favored talking points.

*I'm not saying I agree with all her decisions as I do not, but I am noticing a Freshman Congresswoman doing things not a lot of the seasoned folks in DC are bothering to do.*

Oddly, I can write Bernie Sanders and get a reply faster than JHB. An on point reply. Her FB and Twitter and official pages are Aug 10.... Or were you referring to her wall building and lack of access?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal 5b, A little something for everyone. 5c, FDA, not agreeing with the less addictive aspect, although it would most likely reduce the amount of drugs that are beefed up with other drugs i.e. pot laced with heroin etc. 5d, It's not that way with alcohol or cigarettes.5e No question it would free up much law enforcement as well as prison space. It would free up funding for rehab clinics and solid education about drug use. Not the ineffective DARE crap that does nothing.

Part of the problem as to why people don't speak out against this ridiculous war on drugs speaks to your last paragraph, on the really "serious" question. People tend to believe and frame the argument, that those who promote currently scheduled off limit drugs to be legalized are promoting their usage, rather than a possible solution to our current drug problem. It's quite obvious we are not making positive headway with our current policies.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Right on, Goldie!

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 9:09 a.m.

See also

In the words of our youth, LOL.....

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 9:14 a.m.

*5e No question it would free up much law enforcement as well as prison space. It would free up funding for rehab clinics and solid education about drug use. Not the ineffective DARE crap that does nothing.*

I don't see how it would in G's scheme; sounds like there would be a shift from 'law' enforcement to 'government-owned' business enforcement.

That there needs to be wholesale reformation of our drug policies is a given. However, G's plan needs real fleshing out and I think you'll see the 'devil is in the details'.

*Part of the problem ...not making positive headway with our current policies.*

I think in many ways we are in agreement, in large part. why I asked about not addressing the 'serious questions' is that G spent a huge chunk of time on drugs and didn't address any of the other significant issues. Issues that have been around for as long as our drug problems. Also because the points raised were so general that we need to see 'solutions' on a wide variety of issues before the basic, underlying philosophy is shown.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Alley, get a clue yourself. try to be a bit more rational in your writings. And your gloom and doom is depressing. If you got the answers for everything, why don't you run for office? You seem to have enough idle time on your hands for that. Plus, you know everything. You could be our savior.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal I had a lengthy post deleted due to connection failure on the drug issue. AHHHH! Have to run a few errands but would like to expound a bit later. Not many discussions take place on this subject, here or with Gov, or with anyone it seems like. This issue severely impacts so many others...crime rate, individual rights, fiscal responsibility, healthcare just to name a few.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:30 a.m.

It seems to me she was discussing issues that cost huge money and provide zero or close to zero benefit for citizens. Rather than complain about the ones she failed to list, why don't you give us some examples?

frobert — August 30, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Get a clue have no idea what state I sleep in and for how long....and that would be both....and I pay taxes in both and I am entitled to my opinion in both!
alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 9:31 a.m*

**My question alleycat is, if you pay taxes in both states, possibly sleep in both states...
Which state are you registered to vote in?**

inquiring minds would like to know..

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

yes yes, Alley, we all know about your glorious life. You keep telling us daily. And cut out the cussing while at it. At least direct none at me.

As i said-run for office. Seriously. I was not kidding. You are a concerned citizen, seem to know the answers, so why not run?

You are on an online forum for a small newspaper. Participate nicely, please. That's all I ask.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Put America Back To Work
Bob Herbert

Poverty is once again on the march, moving like Patton’s Third Army through communities that had never had more than a tenuous hold on the American dream. The few jobs now being created too often pay a pittance, the minimum wage or just above, not nearly enough to pry open the doors to a middle class standard of living.

Starved of tax revenues, the federal budget is submerged in a vast ocean of red ink. One of the tragic results is that social services are under furious attack at the same time that the need for such services has grown enormously. If dramatic steps are not soon taken to put millions of jobless Americans back to work, the quality of life for much, if not most, of the population will be irreparably damaged. The American dream itself is at risk.

Politicians have given little more than lip service to this terrible turn of events. If there was but one message that I would try to get through to the nation’s leadership, it is that we cannot begin to get the United States back on track until we begin to put our people back to work.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 9:55 a.m

Gold star of the day!

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So you believe everyting you read to be true.. There are always two side to every story, I doubt most educated intellengent people would turn there backs onan ailing individual

Alley- You have posted most likely over 1000 times JHB will not get relected and for what, because she hasn't held a private meeting with you.. Sheez the Popoe hasn't held one with me either maybe we should fire him too...
Put your little list of grievences together and mail one, email the other and walk over to her office and hand deliver the other if your so bent on getting her un-relected..Seriously The president has done Bo didly squat and here you are spewing such negativity at JHB for what she wont hold a town hall meeting... Do you really think she doen't know what her constuants want or feel about.. Even our President does but he lacks the leadership to do anything about it and he has the power to do something about it.

Folks, change needs to start at the top.. Lets find and elect a leader of the people and for the people.. Not some talking head.. I voted for JHB because heck was so un energized and lacked any vision of what his goals were for the next term in office..

Drugs only bring more major crime, you only need to look south of our borders at what is possible, death and destruction = corruption.. Sorry Genevieve and alley, legalizing them might bring everything down. Don't know of anyone I know that is in favor of such Radical behavior except the far left.. JMHO..

vanwadreamer — August 30, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — August 30, 2011 at 9:52 a.m.

*It seems to me she was discussing issues that cost huge money and provide zero or close to zero benefit for citizens.*

Really? That was your take? She was advocating government run manufacturing and distribution of an unnamed set of "drugs".

With, it seems, no discussion of oversight and control.

*Rather than complain about the ones she failed to list, why don't you give us some examples?*

Examples of what? How she proposes to address those issues?

I'm sure she can speak for herself; but if you wish to address why those aren't worthy of addressing, or why they don't factor into societal costs (" huge money and provide zero or close to zero benefit for citizens."), please go ahead...

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — August 30, 2011 at 10:09 a.m.
Fits right in then, right?
Very opinionated folks we got with them

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So, we have a Democratic candidate for Governor. Someone to go up against Rob (I hate Christine) McKenna. His name is Jay Inslee. Seems to come from the middle class, worth a look.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder where JHB is donating the equivalent to her proposed 10% tax cut?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

MYOB I am not an open book to people I don't know. That is all you need to know. I am entitled to my opinion as much as you.

alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 10:15 a.m

No can do alleycat, you see if you are registered to vote in more than one state you my friend are breaking the law. Voting in two states is everyone's business. You see, you can own property in both, but you must cast your vote from the one you have a physical residence. If you are voting in both states then you are committing fraud.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and I am and others, but that doesn't mean you are entitled to cast votes for two different states.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil I agree with Mr. Herbert.But he doesn't address the round about we seem to be on.In order to put people back to work we need to have people spending money to buy products and services that are produced and or sold here in the U.S.I don't have a answer either.The only thing that I see is to put a tariff on all goods that are imported that could be made here.Make it profitable for companys to produce here in the U.S. again.

terick — August 30, 2011 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

terick — August 30, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

*we need to have people spending money*

Actually, not so much. You are asking for continuing a consumer based economy; sorta like the Bush, 'we need to go out and shop' dictum. And we've seen what a 'service - based' economy looks like.

Herbert walks though an infrastructure building program.

We could also look at putting money into our educational system; esp ways to get more people into higher ed and voc ed (and voc., ag, ed etc teaching) as well as retraining for returning to the workforce people (armed service vets, dead end job holders, new tech, etc).

Senator Maria Cantwell, on Sun Jun 12 at the Vancouver ILWU, said, "We need to make something in America besides exotic financial instruments."

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

terick — August 30, 2011 at 11:01 a.m

*The only thing that I see is to put a tariff on all goods that are imported that could be made here.Make it profitable for companys to produce here in the U.S. again.*

Tariffs may not be the best option. We were a net exporter of solar

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil I do agree with the training AND higher ed.But where will we put these people to work? We need a manufacturing base that pays a living wage.Not everybody is going to be trade workers or use their education in some kind of office situation.We need factory workers to produce goods what we now are importing from over seas.Thats why I say put a tariff on all imported goods to the extent that it will make it profitable for companys to produce here.How does not being a cunsumer based economy solve the problem.It seems to me that we have to spend in order to keep our people working.We need to produce the goods that we all need.Things that say made in the U.S.A.Working people will spend and support our fellow citizens.

terick — August 30, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Agreed Basil. This country took a turn for the worse when manufacturing stopped. You cannot build a society on service based jobs alone. What do we still manufacture? What are we known for? Whatever happened to American ingenuity?

And this comes from a "foreigner." But I do know what the USA stood for before. And it was not low wage service jobs.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

terick — August 30, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.

I know WPA raises the whole govt v private business issue, but the reality is that even basic unemployment is an economic boost with something on the order of 1.6 return

If we had more systemic training and education programs, there are plenty of infrastructure jobs to fill. And that would include areas like healthcare, environmental, job training, etc.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 11:51 a.m

We export a fair amount of food



Raw materials (labor for extraction and shipping)

And, knowhow

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is the price range for the wall clock you are looking for? What style are you looking for as well?

vanwadreamer — August 30, 2011 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes, Nixon froze the wages and prices. But right after he did that, he started exempting prices from the freeze and it wasn't long until there were no price freezes, only the wages were still frozen. So that didn't work.

rincon1 — August 30, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Check this site out hope it hepls..

vanwadreamer — August 30, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree Allen.But like I said in order for companys to manufacture here they need to make a profit.They can't now because labor is so cheap overseas.If we made it so the products that are imported were so expensive to bring here they might just start producing here again.Make it so that the raw materials we ship overseas are to expensive to ship.Basil calls for job training in medical,enviromental and solar.That is all well and good but people have to have incomes that allow them to buy these products and services.We could do all this if our leaders didn't line their own pockets with lobby money.I guess I might be looking at this as to simple but it makes sense to me.

terick — August 30, 2011 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 11:39 a.m

Typical alleycat, right there when he wants to put his two cents in everyone's business but you ask him to give it up and it's "stay out of my business". That just tells me (and everyone else here) that he has no business opening his mouth about anything in Washington. So, he can't vote here, lives in P-town and is a big bad biker with a little dinghy that has a sail on it with delusions of grandeur. If you blow really hard, you might be able to sail your boat. Shouldn't be a problem for you.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Implying or accusing me of doing so is outrageous, uncalled for and out of line.
Please mind your own business because you have no business with my life. If you disagree with my opinion about a subject..let's go at it and debate it, but your accusations are of poor taste and blatantly uncalled for as I said.
alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 11:39 a.m*

Notice alleycat I said "IF YOU ARE". Maybe I should have said "if one is". You read far, far too much into what others say...tad bit paranoia showing. I wasn't asking for any info on your personal business, just reminding you of the law.
You are the one that keyed you live in Oregon, not I, you are the one that keys daily rants about the goings on within our elected here in Washington. You key daily that you own property in both states. Since you have said time and time again you live in Oregon, you vote in Oregon, even if you own property here in Wa, you have no right to vote here. Therefore you have no voice in how they do their job.
Now go take a Valium and calm down.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI...don't forget the six figure remodel AND the property owned in other countries as well. But remember...we're supposed to stay out of his business, right???

And Alley...your little rant at 9:31 this morning??? You almost popped that vein sticking out of your forehead, huh. Feel better now??? Hope so. Well, in response...I could care less if she would give me two seconds of her busy schedule. I could care less if she thinks lower of me if I occasionally ride the bus. I could care less if YOU think my conservatism is ridiculous. Get a clue flip flop across the board on the C with your "I'm richer than the world and am not beholding to the government" schpiel you are always blurting along with your "it's the end of the world" cryouts.

Get a clue yet, MISTER BIKER? Get a clue that I could care less about what goes on on Alberta Street? Get a clue that the little street fair is nothing more than a band-aid fix to a failed community? Get a clue that you have made it well known that you live in Oregon? And how many of you use the "property" you claim you own in Clark County for one nighters? or do you really own it? Maybe you just utilize the space on occasion. Get a clue yet, alley??? We know your game and it ain't workin', bud.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Golden, it's probably where he moors his little dinghy. Since he pays rent on the slot, technically he has property.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well that pudding face didn't turn out very well...**;]**

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

paranoia, and that's all I have to say about that.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Alley...I'm just repeating what you claim...let's just say it's refreshing your past notables, eh!!! You say all I can ride is the bus??? Oh that's a good one, Alley. How long did it take for you to come up with the idea that the bus is all I can ride? Too too funny!!! Nice that you just dissed on everyone who has no choice but to utilize transportation. Credibility lost. And that scripture you speak of...were you looking in the mirror when you read it? About that little sailboat of yours...

What's stopping you from taking it out for a world tour??? You might avoid the Somali Coast. They don't take kindly to outsiders. Also...the waters are turbulent south of Cape of Good Hope. I hear the seas are quite rough. I could share some wonderful destinations I've seen in my travels, alley...but I wouldn't want to do that to the people who live there. They've got enough to deal with right now.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 30, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Oh alleycat, do make me laugh out are quite entertaining in your rants. My "high horse" Dang right I ride on it, just like anyone else does on theirs. You included.

I also voted for Herrera in hopes of change. Will we get it? Not sure yet. Too soon to be jumping up and down cheering for her corner.

Yes alleyboy you DO read FAR too much into what people say.

Yeah alleyboy I know all to well about owning real estate in other states. I own another home in another state, so does my husband. But neither of us vote in those states cause we live here. Do we push our political ideas on those who do live in those other states? No we sure don't. Do we keep up on what goes on in the other states, yes we do.

Now as I said, go take a Valium, clam down, might even go take a ride on that umm bike of yours..^giggle*

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just another opportunity that possibly you may never have because you don't have the drive that I do. alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 2:11 p.m.

How about, I don't want to?

I have more important things to do than waste my time and money on a hole in the water. Please, be my guest and weigh anchor. Since you don't live on this side of the big ditch, your input is null and void.

Thanks for playing and have a good day.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yup just what I mean...alleyboy...alleycat you are not.
Even a scruffy alleycat knows his place in on the other hand..

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, you are funny. Pudding face indeed.

What happened Ally, No more bold print? Sounds like you got your head handed to you and you are just slinking off with your tail between your legs.

I,also, own property in more than one state. Nothing to brag about, a lot of people do.

rincon1 — August 30, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So I step away for 2 hours and Alleycat ratches up the insults. Why do you call us all stupid and dumb if we disagree with you? What makes you better and smarter? care to tell?
Too many trips on that sailboat lately? It seems to get bigger every day. Now it can sail around the world? my My.

Maybe a little trip on the boat for, say, the next 2 weeks, might be just what the doctor ordered. I have the feeling most of us get a bit tired of your calling us every name in the book. Chill a bit, Alley, you used to make so much sense but lately...why is that? Because we do not all agree and just nod?

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

you guys are to funny.Why do you let him bait you like that.All of you make more sense than he ever will.And you all at least offer somthing constructive to the forum.Let him go.His rants supply nothing to the conversation.

terick — August 30, 2011 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Terick-so true. Plus, he needs a cooling off period for a while. Let the wind on the river play with his hair...

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi,Golden,Hawk,you don't have to use the ignore button.If you don't respond pretty soon he has no power or conversation.Remember it takes at least 2 to have a conversation.Just don't reply to him.

terick — August 30, 2011 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When two or three people have dozens of comments each, do they count towards the total at the end of the week? They shouldn't. A few are interesting to read, but after that they become boring and juvenile to most of us. Like kids fighting over a ice cream cone.

cranky — August 30, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Too bad someone doesn't have a set of Anglo-Scottish bagpipes..enough hot air is being spilled by someone to keep a set going for hours. :]

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 3:32 p.m.

Aeolian Harp

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You are out of line and a loser indeed. Once you get over your riding your high horse which I see you are joining the other two losers in the cavalry of losers...then and only then I will give you the time of the day. alleycat — August 30, 2011 at 3:10 p.m

***Got a watch, don't need you.***

Like I said before, thanks for playing. Oh, and don't forget to tip your waitress, you freak.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 3:38 p.m.

That would work also.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...a little cooler out today, but still quite nice. Hey, NFL regular season kicks off the 23rd.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now did anyone get a chance to check this out yesterday?

It seems China is going to be buy property in large amounts here in the USA to build a self contained communities staffed and populated by the Chinese. In Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Idaho so far.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...the game is being played in London I believe. Food prices sure have been soaring as of late.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, I just did. And the purpose of these zones? Takeover?

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere, I'm not sure but it appears so. What better way than to buy, build and set up military under our very noses?

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

true. Do it gradually and it gets nearly unnoticed. Then keep doing it - voila. If not military, economic takeover.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.

Any other source refer to " Chinese could potentially be able " in regard to military?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I haven't found any as of yet Basil. I Googled "China buying land in America". About all I get is articles such as I posted.

I got that link from my daughter, she found some about it where she lives. All of her military buddies are quite concerned about it.

It does make one wonder tho, if they are to be self contained, populated by the Chinese, manufacturing...

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 3:56 p.m

Funny, I googled that and your web site seems to be the only one who knows about this. Also, I see no author to the article. One of those things that makes you go, Hmmmmmmm.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Might want to read the newspaper article that your link riffs off of. There are enough keywords in the article to facilitate further searching.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way Basil, if you have time, check and let me know. You seem to do better than I in researching somethings.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, I got a lot of different links but felt they were either too one sided in this so I discounted them.

I do know in the article there is a link to the Idaho Statesman, the main paper in Idaho based in Boise.
The said property they bought is just south of the Boise airport and not far from the Mountain Home AF base.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Jaime Herrera article is really getting the FB hits. The emotion on this thread began with one individual condoning and justifying the sort of political nonsense Herrera is trying to sell the public. A few got carried away with making personal insults and steered right off the highway. Let's not forget what kind of garbage Herrera is selling come election time.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John Laird's column this week on the National Popular Vote movement has a decent conversation going.

Personally, if I was a State, I would refuse to give up my right to determine how my electoral college votes will be distributed. If this passes, it becomes one more step toward making the state an irrelevant entity.

However, in looking at the merit of the proposal, I don't buy into this plan of winner of the national popular vote taking all. This would make it appear to be a unanimous victory and completely do away with regional patterns, etc. If they want something "fair" then using the proportional method of allocating electoral votes would seem to be closer to meeting this goal. If our own popular vote is 55% to 45%, then we should allocate 6.05 and 4.95 votes respectively. Every state doing the same would come closer to mirroring a direct popular vote than the NPV would.

roger — August 30, 2011 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody noticed that there were no LTTE for today? Or is my C just not coming up right?

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good pasts there Allen. All very well said.

luvithere — August 30, 2011 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie***8/29*** @ 8:28 @ 12:20 @ 12:34 @ 12:38 @ 12:47

goldenoldie***8/30*** @ 7:30 @ 7:58 @ 8:14 @ 8:21 @ 8:39 @ 9:11 @ 1:56 @ 2:18 @ 2:25

To reference the end of last weeks much for God answering prayer! :))

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — August 30, 2011 at 7:47 p.m

I really truly believe that our elected are actually afraid of us. Afraid of the questions we'd ask cause they have no answers to give us!

Couple that with the fear of what happened to Gifford could happen to them. I don't blame them for that at all.

Allen, we all who voted, did so thinking we'd get a change for the better no matter who or which side we voted for. This country has been in a spiral downward since LBJ and when 9/11 happened it sped up the process. Those that voted for Obama, did so for "Hope and change", he never made it clear what that hope and change was, and IMO still hasn't. Most likely never will cause I think he doesn't know either. Those who voted for McCain, well I don't know, IMO he was too old, too flip floppy. Neither IMO showed strong signs of a leader.
If the people and politics could keep their noses out of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, let the military do what they need to do, both wars could have been wrapped up, done, any rebuilding done, finished and all troops back home long before now IMO.

We need strong leaders, ones that can stand up and say, ok look this is what we need to do. Then set out to do it, never back down, never look back.
They need to stop worrying about what other countries think of us, we are not out to win a popularity contest or bend over to kiss anyone's backside. Provide humanitarian help to others when needed but that is where to draw the line. Our elected need to worry about our own people first. Shore up the borders, put a freeze on immigration, put in a price freeze on food, medicine, medical care, utilities, etc. Bring back companies that gone to other countries due to high taxes and regulations, if they choose to stay in other countries, then put high tariffs on the products. Support our farmers, stop buying more and more of our food from other countries. I don't even buy dog food for my dog, I cook her food myself cause of so many dogs dying from bad dog food brought in from another country. If one can't trust simple dog food to be safe why should we trust food for us to be?

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd like to know where Herrera stands on tearing apart FEMA. Demanding cuts from needed programs to help provide relief for disaster victims. Either that or no help at all. Our local "conservative" political blowhards, where do they stand on this? God knows they shoot off their hypocritical mouths enough on the FB side. We stop providing relief to disaster victims, those same victims will resort to violence in a New York second. Where is the caring for our fellow human beings for Christ's sake. Oh yeah...we're broke right? I guess we can no longer "afford" to display "Christian" behavior. Sickening.

Today's Conservatives are ruining America.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Talk to Bachmann, nail. She says the hurricane was Gods way of telling the government to straighten up. Maybe she can ask Him to repair what He caused.

hawkeye — August 30, 2011 at 11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

he who controls the oil, controls the world..

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 11:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Today's Conservatives are ruining America.

nailingit — August 30, 2011 at 10:34 p.m

Well nailingit, I am a conservative and I can't answer you about FEMA honestly. Simply cause I don't know all what is wanted done.
I can say we need FEMA for people and businesses that go through a disaster. IMO if it were to become private, I see a lot of problems with the people and businesses not getting the help they need. Much like we all go through with health insurance companies.

You are doing exactly what alleycat does, lumping all together, not all Christians and not all conservatives think or do what you state.

ELISI — August 30, 2011 at 11:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good editorial today, Columbian:

This issue needs the attention it is receiving. Although promised by one of her staff members twice on the phone, I have not received one notice from JHB's office about these "coffee house" meetings. They are flagging those phone numbers that belong to unhappy constituents.

I enjoyed the link posted by buckeye71 a couple of days ago, written by a gentleman who showed up to one of these farces in Stevenson and asked her about her signing the Norquist pledge. He pressed further, and she promised to get back to him but never did.

This games playing in Congress that substitutes for governing is absolutely unacceptable. Good job, Columbian, for calling her out.

manthou — August 31, 2011 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOLOL, nailingit! You have a point on your post at 8:26 pm. Guess folks will have to get prayin' a little harder...a little guidance might be necessary.

Hey ELISI...I don't know if this helps your original post at 3:56 pm, but I did find these links about Chinese Investors in the US (btw, they've done the same thing in Greece and Iceland as well as other nations, too):

My's not just the Chinese. They are seeing BIG opportunities and taking advantage of gaining a foothold on our country:

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning, manthou. Regarding your comment at 6:24 am....I'd sure hate to be a politician in today's world. No matter what...they can't seem to get the job done and some are recognized as not doing enough, are going the wrong direction and are not thinking of the people...a problem plaguing Mrs. H-B. You know...all along I have agreed with the fact that she needs more public exposure with the people. She's so green around the gills that she's detached from the people...and that would be her demise in this tough economic climate we are suffering.

Now regarding FEMA...I was just listening to an article yesterday about FEMA...and they are running out of funding to help the folks in Virginia and Vermont as a result of all the deadly tornadoes which have destroyed many towns. I'm not sure if eliminating FEMA would be the answer, but I wish all the politicians would get on board and reorganize their financial structure in order to put the most monies forward for entities like disaster restoration and so many others.

I found this website which stated the feds had wasted over $100 million in unused flight tickets and that approximately 36,000 Department of Defense credit card holders (official DOD cards) working at the pentagon as of 2001 had defaulted on $623 million worth of "Official travel expenses" which some of the bad debts were written off by banks. (Just google "2001 debt of DOD cardholders" and you'll find the links). Can you imagine how much money has been wasted on that alone since then? It would've probably kept our government running in the green since...well...since the beginning of our nation. And this is just a small example of the waste in government. I won't even get into the rebuilding of Iraq!!!

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good mornin' to you too, Allen. As someone who voted for JHB, I think she should be called out...and should come forth to explain. Everyone who has said it is absolutely right that she should be held accountable for what she is doing or lack of what she should be doing for the folks in the 3rd should the other politicians who have not come forward with a town hall. Why is it I haven't heard of any by our illustrious Senator Patty Murray? She might have come to town to meet with local dignitaries...but where's HER attachment to the people? Or any other politician in DC for that matter? Where ARE they???

The BIG G in DC is NOT listening to the people. They have their agenda they must adhere to. They don't have time to listen to us Peons!

THAT's why I say each and every one of us must take what life has given us...grab it by the horns and make our own situations better...even if the improvement is small. We ALL need to rethink our current existence, we ALL need to balance our own budgets, make necessary adjustments and we ALL must find at least one facet in our lives where we could trim OUR dependence on our government for everything we've taken for granted all these years.

Allen, I could easily qualify for SSI disability benefits...but my husband has a good job (thank heavens). It isn't as good as it once was since hours are fewer than they've ever been...but we manage to get by with it. I will not apply for the SSI benefits as I see many, many more people who aren't in the same boat as I am and need that money. Yes I know...I'm "entitled" to that monthly benefit since I've paid into SSI...but until it's been reorganized...maybe even with stricter rules for folks to apply and be approved, it just might not be there later on for those dependent on it for living expenses at retirement.


goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Who did and didn't sign the G. Norquist pledge....

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Basil...regarding your link...

I received the message "this file is damaged and can not be repaired." It won't pull up. Thought I'd let you know.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's the 'short' version:

**6 GOP U.S. House NonPledge Signers:**
NY-24 Richard Hanna
GA-07 Rob Woodall
PA-19 Todd Russell Platts
VA-01 Rob Wittman
VA-10 Frank Wolf
KS-03 Kevin Yoder
**7 GOP U.S. Senate Pledge
IN-Sen Richard Lugar
IA-Sen Charles Grassley
ME- Sen Olympia Snowe
ME- Sen Susan Collins
MS-Sen Thad Cochran
WY- Sen John Barrasso
ND-Sen John Hoeven
**2 Dem U.S. House Pledge
NJ-01 Robert Andrews
KY-06 Ben Chandler
**1 Dem U.S. Senate Pledge
NE-Sen Ben Nelson

No idea why it would come up w/ that message; downloads and opens in Acrobat and Chrome and Firefox here.

And while ELISI complains about labeling, it is quite apparent there is a high level of 'group think' going on.

Now, I wonder how many pledgers are revisiting that thinking.... Sorta reminds me of an earlier pledge, one that a R candidate had when he was Speaker......

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tried it on Chrome and Firefox. No luck. Thanks for the info (shortened version of course). Funny, when I googled G Norquist Tax Pledge and went to to read what they said about it, the immediate point my cursor hovered over was..."Donate."

Needless to say...all they got out of me was a smile and a click on "Exit" when I was done reading their shout out. Whether their cause is for the good of the people or not...when it immediately takes you to their request for donations...Strike one-two-three immediately for me in even giving them the time of day.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Boy, there's already one denier rebuttal to today's Climate Change LttE!

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I sure do not agree with the Republican ideology Rep Jaime follows. But we are living in a changing world. An old fashioned, town hall meeting is just that--old fashioned. Every Representative in the country should also be doing social media town halls, for their constituents who have embraced this as an acceptable form of communication.

With the current level of political attacks, veiled threats and hate speech, I consider any political office holder wise to avoid the limelight. Government Leaders are being briefed at the highest levels on new security precautions with a nation at war with Islam and with itself, I suspect. Remember: our enemies make no distinction between civilian and military leadership. We are all targets. Then we have the additional danger of Republican terrorists who have been deluded into thinking they are being patriotic by suggesting political opponents are treasonous, for example. Imagine all the nut cases who could latch on to a comment like that and think they have to do something as a "good, patriotic American."

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just a few hours ago the number 2 house republican, Cantor, is insisting on spending cuts for current and future disaster relief funding. This has been a mantra for the baggers quite awhile now. Abolish FEMA, IRS, Dept. of Education...and any faction of the government whatsoever. As long as the military exists to protect their financial interests.

Destroying government has been the republican mantra for how long? Yet they love to use their power to further their extremest agenda of big and intrusive "big brotherism".

ELISI- ? Not all of anyone tows a train of thought or action that mirrors one thought or idea to the letter. It's prevalent thought that usually gets addressed. Why the dig about alleycat? Bored?

Please tell me ELISI...seeing how you profess to be one...what is a "conservative"?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Are the magnatic poles re-aligning themselves?

Allen — August 31, 2011 at 7:46 a.m.

Why would that, if it is happening, effect climate?

Mentioning Tulsa, how about Vermont? 100+ year old bridges washed away:



Must-Read Krugman: GOP is Now “Aggressively Anti-Science, Indeed Anti-Knowledge,” Which Should “Terrify Us.”
By Joe Romm on Aug 29, 2011 at 12:44 pm

Now, we don’t know who will win next year’s presidential election. But the odds are that one of these years the world’s greatest nation will find itself ruled by a party that is aggressively anti-science, indeed anti-knowledge. And, in a time of severe challenges — environmental, economic, and more — that’s a terrifying prospect.
Paul Krugman had a terrific column in the New York Times Sunday, “Republicans Against Science.” He discusses not just the anti-science nature of the GOP as it applies to global warming, but their anti-knowledge approach as it applies to economic theory.

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou-YOU have been missed! Great to see the civility czar post!

Props to the C for calling out Herrera. We need to keep up the pressure on our elected. Those that choose to not even address those who hired them, need a quick exit next year.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wasn't around back in the day, but aren't we revisiting the failed policies of Harding, Coolidge and Hoover? Doesn't the tea party embrace the very economic policies and ideologies that brought on the great depression? Am I not correct with this?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 31, 2011 at 6:24 a.m

Great article about Jamie, but who wrote it? There is no by line anywhere to be found.

The Rebublican'ts will cry about spending too much money until it starts to effect their district, then things will change.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy @ 7:46..."I consider any political office holder wise to avoid the limelight."

Are you saying politicians should hide underneath their desks in fear and not address their constituency in a public forum? I'm sure assassination isn't one of the leading causes of death in America. What kind of message do you think this sends to our troops who are sacrificing daily to keep our freedoms intact?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A leader is not worth their salt if they have no courage. But its stupid to take unnecessary risks during a time of war and political upheaval. Look at the mob mentality that quickly developed on Facebook when the Columbian ran the story. Some of those posters are Democrat terrorists, at least inciting hatred, which is an accomplice to terrorism. And even if there is no physicaldanger at a public forum, many of the people there are low information voters and take up politics to divert themselves from their sorry personal lives, and add nothing to the dialogue.
The voices of reason are drowned out by the loud mouths and nothing gets accomplished.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When haven't we been in a time of war or upheaval? If someone is afraid to speak publicly about the views they believe in, then I certainly don't want them in office! Are you serious? Should we then disallow campaigning for fear someone would cause anyone physical harm?

I have to say I have never heard anyone advocate for what you are advocating. No public appearances from our public officials. Interesting.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 8:42 a.m.

*at least inciting hatred, which is an accomplice to terrorism.*

Like a Jared Loughner or Breivik or Scott Roeder couldn't show up at a 'coffee talk'?

*And even if there is no physicaldanger at a public forum, many of the people there are low information voters*

Yet they have exactly the same number of votes. Their voice, like on the comments, shows up for the quality that it is.

If an elected rep can't distinguish between the LI voters' rhetoric and knowledgeable discourse, there will be plenty of voters who will.

*The voices of reason are drowned out by the loud mouths and nothing gets accomplished.*

Well, the TP is dropping in influence and 'likes', A quick look around shows many of the first termers in JHB's camp are suffering as she is, and while the TP rhetoric stays heated, more people are seeing it as empty and not helping the country get to where we want to be. Look at the healthcare / JHB listen article, look at the comments on Krugman's opinion piece (

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The voices of reason are drowned out by the loud mouths and nothing gets accomplished.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 8:42 a.m.

You mean like Hedrick?

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 6:27 a.m

Thanks Golden, yes I saw those and was going to post them today.
Just makes one wonder..
I know China has been seeking energy sources, as well as steel. There is a company off Marine drive that nearly went bankrupt a few years ago due to the Chinese buying up steel in this country.

Now a Russian company is combining with Exxon to drill for oil.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 8:50 a.m.

Note also that the articles cited yesterday about why many are not doing townhalls didn't really go into the virtually total access blackout that we are getting from JHB.

Facebook Aug 10

Twitter Aug 10

Last newsletter ?

10 medical people at a 'listen'? A business 'listen'? No ed 'listen' No vet 'listen' No jobless 'listen No environmental 'listen' No WIC 'listen' ......

Respond to email?

Tele-talk notification ?

Piece of paper in your mailbox?

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 9:17 a.m.

As I have been told many times by my old employer, "it's a world economy". We just NEED to know how to manage it from our side.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We have the first hurricane to hit the United States in three years, it's only a category 1, and alarmist are blaming it on climate change.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 9:24 a.m

Could all of this be just one more move towards a One world government?

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 7:49 a.m

Is drug use lower than it was before the formation of the DEA?

Has the United States world standing in education improved since the formation of the Department of Education?

What does FEMA do that wasn't done by other agencies?

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 9:31 a.m.

Given that Irene is just one example of several major climate/ weather /ocean changes that fit well to IPCC and other research, it sure makes more sense than:

"“I think there are a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data ..." R. Perry

"I don't know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians. We've had an earthquake; we've had a hurricane. He said, 'Are you going to start listening to me here?'"said Bachmann.

“Do I think the world’s getting hotter? Yeah, I don’t know that, but I think that it is,” he said. “I don’t know if it’s mostly caused by humans.” M. Romney

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No, the IPCC predicted more frequent and higher intensity storms, not less frequent and lower intensity.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal...It does cause concern that she is in way over her head. When a politician reacts in the way Congresswoman Herrera is reacting, I question their motivation and reasoning for wanting the job in the first place. I wonder if her inner circle is advising against this sort of "non-action" privately. With so many in Congress not doing town halls maybe Herrera thought she could take it even further and just disengage. I've had a couple of jobs in which that would have been a nice option! But like most, my work ethic (nor my employer!) would have allowed it.

Maybe it's a question of just plain and simple work ethic (or lack thereof) on her part.

And BTW...Herrera stated in her last 'coffee talk' that only one other congressperson expressed interest with her proposed 10% reduction in pay idea, but she would continue to take time and champion this cause. No doubt a symbolic 'jesture' on her part. So why hasn't she been inspired by the actions of one of her home boys and reduced/promise to charity a % of her own pay? What better way to lead, than by example considering she is so "passionate" about this idea.? She might have to do something seemingly right for the wrong reason and resort to something 'gimicky' to get re-elected.

We can do better than this.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- Should the federal government be charged with disaster relief funding?

Or should it be left to the states, churches, community orgs etc.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.

Global and long term


one part of one country & short term

And don't forget there are a range of scenerios, a common denier tactic is to cherrypick amongst them.....

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe there thinking about reductions to FEMA is that the private sector can be of help to people who are affected by these storms and maybe better than what FEMA does. If you live in certain parts of the country your lender will require you to carry additional insurance for hurricanes and tornados. I have a relative in Florida and she is required to carry Hurricane coverage above and beyond her normal home insurance. It allows her to live somewhere else while repairs are done to her home..
As for flood insurance, those who live in those areas did choose to live there and should be aware of the possibility one day that they could be displaced from their home, but many people ignore that possibility and then complain help is slow to arrive..And in some places it's very expensive to purchase flood insurance I know.. But if you live there Be prepared for the worst.. It will eventually come...

vanwadreamer — August 31, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 7:49 a.m
I'll see if I can get it all in and it go through. Nailingit, I can not speak for all conservatives, just myself.

As a conservative I believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense.
Human life begins at conception. I am against abortion, but I can not tell others what to do with their body.
The death penalty is a punishment that if it fits the Crime it is neither ‘cruel' nor ‘unusual'.
Executing a murderer is the appropriate punishment for taking an innocent life.
Free markets produce more economic growth, more jobs and higher standards of living than those systems burdened by excessive government regulation.
As a conservative, I believe and desire clean water, clean air and a clean planet, just like everyone else. However, extreme environmental policies destroy jobs and damage the economy.
Gun control, the second amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms. Gun control laws do not stop criminals.
Free healthcare provided by the government (socialized medicine) means that everyone will get the same poor-quality healthcare. The rich will continue to pay for superior healthcare. It should remain privatized.
Support legal immigration at current numbers, but do not support illegal immigration. Government should enforce immigration laws.
I believe the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. For a very good reason. The First Amendment to the Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." This stops the government from establishing a national church.
Study the Huguenot Wars and you will see why the people fled other countries to come here.
Marriage is between one man and one woman. A legal civil union for gay couples should be law.
The UN has repeatedly failed in its mission to preserve world peace. The wars, genocide and human rights abuses of the majority of its members. UN’s has failed to stop them prove this point. History shows that the United States, not the UN, is the global force for spreading freedom, prosperity, tolerance and peace. The U.S. should never give in to its national interests to those of the UN.
I oppose long-term welfare. We need to provide opportunities to make it possible for poor and low-income workers to become self-reliant. It is far more compassionate and effective to encourage a person to become self-reliant, rather than keeping them dependent on the government for money.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. *
So why hasn't she been inspired by the actions of one of her home boys and reduced/promise to charity a % of her own pay? What better way to lead, than by example considering she is so "passionate" about this idea.? She might have to do something seemingly right for the wrong reason and resort to something 'gimicky' to get re-elected.
We can do better than this.*

Very well stated; should be in an email to her AND a LttE!

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil, maybe you could explain in YOUR OWN need for links to back up what you state...just how a Category 1 Hurricane that made landfall is a sign of climate/weather/ocean change. I'm confused. As far as I can see by data I have researched when it comes to hurricanes as far back as original recordings...this isn't even a little bump in the weather cycles. And isn't this a bit late for the hurricane season to really impact our shores???

Last year, the first hurricane to hit landfall was in June in the Yucatan Peninsula (Alex - Cat 2) which I admit was rare. Four of the eleven named storms were a category 4 including Danielle and Earl, with a fifth hurricane in the Bay of Campeche. And that was late August to September.

Now I could see last year as an unusually strong year...but it was a set up for a strong LaNina year which supposedly, we're under a LaNina Watch for this upcoming winter again. Anyhow, I'd have to check data myself, to see if it was a typical weather pattern for a strong LaNina year. I cannot quite consider this year as something to write in the books for IPCC...other than that it's a study of the patterns of LaNina in order to determine if it is unusual.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer, what comes to mind is what happened in Aumsville, Oregon...not the tornado itself, but the fact that the people of Aumsville worked together to rebuild their town without the needs of FEMA...

And I'd bet the farm that there are many small towns across the US who have done the same thing.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI...and taxation? Not trying to be too critical, but how do you coincide "personal responsibility", "limited government" and "individual liberty" with "Marriage is between one man and one woman"?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:29 a.m.

A- weather isn't climate

b- local isn't global

c- trends are long term and not cherrypicked

d-look at all the data

e-"last year’s annual American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting, UC Santa Barbara’s William Freudenberg gave a presentation in which he revealed that “new scientific findings [since the IPCC] are found to be more than twenty times as likely to indicate that global climate disruption is ‘worse than previously expected,’ rather than ‘not as bad as previously expected.’ “"

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just sent Jamie an email outlining my proposed change to the retirement system of the House and Senate making them reduce their benefits to 25% (of current) for the first term served, 50% for two terms served, 75% for three terms served and 100% for four or more terms served. Either that or they can opt out and take a 401k and SSI, if they choose. It only seems fair.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- Your statement about socialized healthcare is just plain wrong. I've utilized this "socialized healthcare", (although paying through US insurance and out of pocket when my US insurance didn't cover) and found (at least in Germany, Netherlands) the medical care to be top notch. I would pit on the average any US hospital v German and would not be surprised if Germany would come out on top by a considerable margin.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil, let me try this again... I am speaking of your comment at 9:46 which states "Given that Irene is just one example of several major climate/ weather /ocean changes that fit well to IPCC and other research,...). BTW, Irene wasn't just local. It began in the Central/southern Atlantic, impacted several islands in the Caribbean and left northeastward out of Nova Scotia.

A: You tied in the studies as climate/weather/ocean change. In speaking of weather change my friend, how do you determine Irene as a focus of "global weather changes" worthy of note by IPCC?

B: I said no links to back your statement. I wanted to see it in your words.

C: Is the first hurricane of the season in...Late August nonetheless...that maxed out at a Cat 4 for a very short duration that when it hit landfall was barely a Cat 1 system can actually be considered a change of weather patterns from a long term standpoint? Basil, with all the knowledge you possess on this subject, you should know there are always variables.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @10:43...

If you could get *anybody* to listen to that in DC...I'm writing you in for President next year.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie- I suppose one good turn deserves another...8/30 @ 8:19

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:54 a.m.

Ron Paul has never participated in the congressional retirement plan.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...sorry goldenoldie...@ 8/30 @ 9:13

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

fro..... @ 10:08...or are you cueing on "The Herrera Syndrome"

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*BTW, Irene wasn't just local. It began in the Central/southern Atlantic, impacted several islands in the Caribbean and left northeastward out of Nova Scotia.*

Which isn't quite the same as GLOBAL and TRENDS and LOOKING AT ALL THE DATA....

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 10:54 a.m

I also sent it to Boehner, Murray and The President. Let's see if anybody responds.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 10:37 a.m

I was trying to get all of my post into one. That is the reason it's all run together.

Taxation...Being for or against taxes alone makes sense only as one is for or against government. Taxes, alone, carry no weight. They must be considered in relation to a budget before they can be evaluated. Prepare a set budget for a particular year and raises enough taxes to pay for it.
If a year's expenses wind up as a deficit, it gets added to the next year's budget until the deficit is paid off.

As far as the tax table, I must ask you nailingit,...just what is a "fair share" for everyone? I have asked this of those who say "fair share" but have not received an answer yet from anyone as to what exactly is a "fair share"

Start adding up all the taxes one pays, property, sales, road tax, fuel, excise, income, business (if you are in business for yourself) and all the taxes connected with it, self employment tax, partnership tax.. etc

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope so, Hawkeye. It only makes sense. Why should these people have paid Champagne coverage for a temporary job when those who have worked all their lives can't even think of having to pay for their own???


Basil, I could look at all the data till I'm blue in the face. That wasn't my point. My point was for YOU to explain it in YOUR words rather than requesting others to check out links which half of the people wouldn't take the time to do so because you don't want to take the time out to explain? You can't expect people to understand through half sentences with an obvious irritation in your writes, then point them to data links. So... how 'bout it? Could you explain in YOUR OWN WORDS, how one rather noneventful hurricane AT hurricane status is considered one link in global climate or global weather changes??? Of anything, I'd perceive it as just another...another and would weaken the data supporting the IPCC. Care to explain...


goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...the marriage issue v individual liberty, personal responsibility and limited government?

The "fair share" question. Might I refer you to a source much more knowledgeable than I on this issue. Warren Buffet?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 10:46 a.m

It may work in the Netherlands and Germany, doesn't mean it will work here. We have far more in way of populous than either of those countries.

My friend in Canada hates the healthcare there. She has said many times if she lived closer to the border she'd come here for care.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL! Jaime's POA not to engage her constituency seems to have rubbed off on one or two of her ardent admirers! LOL!

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and our populace is much more than Canada...what's your point and how do you link population = quality of healthcare? Sarah Palin used to cross over into Canada for a portion of her healthcare..I suppose not everyone shares your friends opinion!

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Plus nailingit, wasn't it Germany where people were rioting in the streets cause the government there cut money for programs because there isn't enough?

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Aumsville tornado was covered by there insurance company though. Which when that happens many times people end up doing some of the work that there capable of doing until it gets into where licensed individuals are required to get permits to meet codes.. All of that damage was covered under ther insurance unless they didn't have any..

The flooding in Vernonia now is a different story, most of those folks didn't purchase flood insurance the first or second time around..

vanwadreamer — August 31, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:24 a.m
...the marriage issue v individual liberty, personal responsibility and limited government?*

Notice nailingit, I also said I am for a legal civil union between gay couples. Giving them the same rights as a married couple.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:36 a.m

I guess not. Each of us has our own opinion if we all think surely would be a boring world and none of us would be on here discussing anything!

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI...what riots are you referring to?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No marriage should be condoned or condemned by government, marriage is between one or more people and their faith.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Opps I meant UK...sorry

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vanwadreamer, apparently we heard two different stories. The story I'm referring to is where the community got together to help those whose insurance didn't cover the entire damage and to help those who didn't have coverage through donations of supplies AND labor as well as clothing and furniture. The REAL spirit of America.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And why not full marriage rights? Same as any other American "traditional values" couple?

Do you believe someone's sexual orientation makes them 'less than'? Why differentiate at the gender level when it comes to an adult American's right to marry?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm all in favor of everybody's right to get married...... Also their right to get divorced. Can't wait to see the fallout from that one.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree suffer all suffer LOL

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone know what Jaime Herrera thinks of same sex marriage? Or has she been absent on that issue as well.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just ask what Boehner thinks and you'll have your answer.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 11:52 a.m

My family has several gay friends and have known many over the years. Most do not want "marriage" but prefer a civil union.
Same rights, just the use of a different term. If those we know that are gay feel this way why question it? I ask some why and one man answered as he sees it..."marriage is for man and woman, civil union is for gays" That answer is good enough for me. If you care to do a poll across America to see how all of the gay community feels on it, by all means do so, let know the outcome.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- So your answer as to why the American government should continue to discriminate against same sex marriage would be that......your family has had several gay friends that don't want to be married.

It's hard to believe, that when the majority of Americans support same sex marriage, that those in the gay community do not. A bit illogical, don't you think?

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know where you stand on many issues, and also WHY you take the positions you do. What percent of the voting public could come up with a list even half as detailed as yours-- And its a good sign, that you don't walk totally in lock step with the Republicans. So your deprogramming will not be quite as difficult.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice proposal, and good luck with that. Remember, you are dealing with Republicans and Democrats? Ron Paul the exception, but he can afford to say no thanks to the top scale benefit package, as many other members of Congress can.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Every LGBTQI individual I know plans on getting married and trust me I know a lot of them. There is a group of older people in the gay community that don't believe in gay marriage but the younger generations all want to be treated the same. I'm sure if the older people hadn't been raised in an era where they where taught that being gay is wrong and shameful that many more of them would feel that they deserved the right to marry. Gay people just want the same rights that straight Americans regularly throw away in Vegas and AC.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**New pain rules leave patients hurting**

A poster over on the FB side hopes there can be some sort of help for pain patients dependant upon opiates. That's funny!

I told my doc, "Doc, "I says, "I'm strung-out on the Vikes, man. I ran out a while back and started having withdrawals!"

He shuffled around a bit, "Hmm, let's see... you suffer from chronic pain and you take an opiate pain reliever... Hmmm. Yep. I imagine withdrawals would be quite uncomfortable. It comes with the territory. Oh, and by the way, you aren't a junky. You are "dependant."

That sounds like splitting hairs, but I read here a while back that under federal law a physician cannot legally prescribe narcotics to an individual strung-out on narcotics. No, I can't cite my sources. I suppose I could poke around, but I don't have anything handy. That's funny too, eh?

I also take a blood pressure medicine. If I quit taking -that-I won't have withdrawals. My head'll just explode or something.

The stigma associate with pain killers slays me!

Drift — August 31, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"We need to provide opportunities to make it possible for poor and low-income workers to become self-reliant. It is far more compassionate and effective to encourage a person to become self-reliant, rather than keeping them dependent on the government for money."

Excellent Point...and how can we do that without public (GOVERNMENT) education, which is the only thing the poor and low-income can afford? And to become self reliant, this requires higher education, also. And how are we going "fix" education, much less pay for it with continued deficits, chronic unemployment, and rising costs for everything, ELSI?

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 11:24 a.m.

Here's the original statement
Given that Irene is just one example of several major climate/ weather /ocean changes that fit well to IPCC and other research, it sure makes more sense than:"


And Irene, the drought are just two examples in the US that fit to the IPCC scenerios

Warmer and fewer cold
days and nights over
most land areas

Warmer and more frequent
hot days and nights over
most land areas

Warm spells/heat waves.
Frequency increases over
most land areas

Heavy precipitation events.
Frequency (or proportion of total rainfall from heavy falls)
increases over most areas

Area affected by
droughts increases

Intense tropical cyclone activity increases

Increased incidence of
extreme high sea level

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, I never once said the whole gay community doesn't want it. Just most of the ones I know, have and do associate with and those in our family. A very small percentage of the whole.

I find it no more illogical than men and women that chooses not to marry, live together and have a family. They too do not share the same rights as a married couple does.
One can not make medical decisions, be on the each others insurance etc.

So if people are willing to give those rights to gay couples, they must also give them to heteros just living together.

How's that poll going?

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think maybe I should'a done a better job editing that fourth paragragh. Heh.

Drift — August 31, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 1:24 p.m

If I had answers to that I would be president.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 1:13 p.m

I agree Gen to a point. I know young gays probably around your age group into their 20's have said they don't know what they want right now. They have said that marriage for them was too binding of a commitment.
Those in their 30's and 40's are just ok with the way things are. Some want marriage, most want civil union.
Above 40 it is a mix of feelings.
I don't have all the answers for them or anyone on this, I was just repeating what I was told by some.
But if the law is passed for gays to marry, then we must also recognize the fact as I told nailingit to give the same rights to heteros living together as a married couple.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*So your deprogramming will not be quite as difficult.
mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 12:53 p.m*

Now that IS funny!

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay Basil, might I assume that you care to not give an opinion...rather, you only give a statement supported by links? Given the fact that I do recognize global climate change as all too obvious since the data itself proves the climactic regions "morphing," so to speak, I was asking for your opinion...not more data. The problem I have is with the planet "heating up" so to speak. I believe this is cyclical in nature and any "warming" that we witness through gathered data is typical in the age progression of the celestial body we live on which we refer to as a planet. I do not recognize the issue as one which we need to dash to change our habits or the planet will turn into a supernova. Instead, I recognize the issue of livability on our planet...and maybe more focus should be on that bright orb in the sky that tanners bake themselves under, too. Also, the smog is intense...hence all the asthmatic and other COPD patients in the world. I recognize the issue of rainforest devastation as it pushes animals into human habitation and also forces many into extinction. I also recognize the issue of genetic modification to the foods we eat as the farm land disappear and the fact that what must be put into the processing of foods we eat every day will be recognized as what affects our lives...not the fear mongering of global climate change. and how "doomed" our planet is. If anything, our planet is doomed because of manmade causes that aren't necessarily changing our climate.

Basil, I have recognized the change in major glacial formations, the Arctic as well as the Antarctic. I do not deny the warming. I dispute what the climate change experts are claiming as a cause. I wanted to discuss further with you regarding the subject...not with quotes and data but with what you had to your own words. That's why I've been pursuing you to do such. Maybe what I've written in this comment will spark some discussion, perhaps??

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I still haven't bought into the whole IPCC.. It seems there are as many scientists that think global warming happens naturally every thousand, million years as the ones that fiercely defend it happening more now due to carbon emissions.. And then the whole Gore debacle with his movie... That made it all the more non believable, just because I don't believe anything that comes out of that mans mouth.. JMHO...

vanwadreamer — August 31, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As an American, I expect my American brothers and sisters to all have the same rights, regardless of race, color, religion, creed, sexual orientation etc. Seems to me this harkens back to a movement that started in the fifties and really took hold in the sixties. What the hell. Everyone should be allowed to get married, besides, misery loves company! :))

This should purely be a human rights issue. It's only those that choose to have their morality legislated for them (i.e. church, political party, limited life skills) that would disagree. Im my most humble opinion.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Free healthcare provided by the government (socialized medicine) means that everyone will get the same poor-quality healthcare."

Does this assume that socialized medicine will drain all of the resources of the wealthy, who will then be unable to purchase private healthcare?

We will continue to have two systems, One private, and one public. There is no getting around this in a free market society we live in. The trick is to make both systems work together efficiently.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I know young gays probably around your age group into their 20's have said they don't know what they want right now. They have said that marriage for them was too binding of a commitment."

Elisi, please don't take this as an attack that is not my intention but I feel your viewpoint represents the view points of many and it is unintentionally homophobic. Gay people are exactly the same as straight people, the only difference is who they love. Some find marriage to be to binding of a commitment yes, but it is the same with heterosexuals. The majority of LGBTQI want to one day get married. It is not about one man one woman, marriage is about making the ultimate commitment to another human being that no matter what you will love them, defend them, support them, and never ever leave them. To our core every human being on the face of the earth craves these things, gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, transgender, it doesn't matter. I'm not saying everyone acts on their feelings, there are many who never find "the one", but to isolate a group and say that they are unsuited to commitment is just not true.

"But if the law is passed for gays to marry, then we must also recognize the fact as I told nailingit to give the same rights to heteros living together as a married couple."

No, we do not. They haven't made a commitment to stay together forever, its a completely different thing. If they want to get married and have those rights they can, unlike gay people they have that right. To say that is comparing apples with oranges.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve @ 2:22 Post of the month! Or whenever...! Thanks for the teach, I had never heard the term "pansexual". Great Post.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm hip Genevieve!

What was that bill (or whatever, did it become law?) that was being bantered about a while back? Something about gays and folks over 65 being able to enter into a civil union?

So, beings I'm 54 and hetero I'm chopped liver? What the heck is up with that?

That Ol' Woman and me been shacked up for around 25 now. That'd be years, not months. Neither of us has any desire to marry. I needn't bore you with our philosophy.

Thing is, she dropped a lung and was on the table. The surgeon decided the scope wasn't going to (heh) cut it so he came out to the waiting room looking for consent to go with the knife.

We hadn't the proper paperwork in place. I couldn't give it. It's fortuitous that her sister was there.

Why are -we- being discriminated?


Drift — August 31, 2011 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Okay Basil, might I assume that you care to not give an opinion...rather, you only give a statement supported by links?*

I'm really unclear as to why you don't want supporting data....

"The problem I have is with the planet "heating up" ...cyclical in nature and any "warming"...typical in the age progression...

OK, you can have that opinion. But what can you bring as supporting evidence? The IPCC report covers all natural forcings, analyzed as to respective strength and none can bring forward the current changes and rate of change.
(that's the red and blue lines on the chart

*I do not recognize the issue ...turn into a supernova.*

Tipping points? Some say 350ppm, some say 450ppm. Supernova?, no; but increasingly more change, faster change, extreme weather, migration of species and disease, change faster than evolution can cope with, changes making habitable areas smaller and smaller? Yes.

"*I dispute what the climate change experts are claiming as a cause*"

Show us what has informed your thinking about any other possible cause.

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 2:22 p.m.

Your post doesn't address polygamy, Shouldn't those whose religion or philosophy of life includes this practice have the same rights?

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


See thats exactly what a civil union should be for. People who do not wish to marry but need a document that shows them as next of kin for circumstances such as yours, or should they break up allows for equal division of property. Its a business arrangement of sorts. It shouldn't be a replacement for marriage and it shouldn't be limited to gay people and the elderly. Everybody should be able to make the decision that best serves their beliefs/situation.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think eventually when my generation comes in to power we will be having the same debates about polygamy that we are currently having about gay marriage. I know plenty of people who have been in polyfidelitous relationships, sooner or later it will be recognized as a viable lifestyle choice, and yes I believe it should be legal.

However, one battle at a time, the American public is not yet open to the idea of polygamy. There are to many people who still confuse polygyny with polygamy and don't understand that there is a difference between the abuse of people like Warren Jeffs and consenting adults who choose to enter into a polygamist relationship.

Someday it will happen, but not today.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 2:22 p.m.

Again, I said, most of those whom I know personally. I was not answering to/for the whole community, I can't and will not.

frobert is correct, in asking about polygamy as I was in heteros. If the the law is going to be for hetero and gay community why not make it for all no matter which way they swing?

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve @ 3:14...since polygyny and polygamy are referenced, it would only be right to mention Polyandry, for those that are truly cocksure of their beliefs. :))

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well thats exactly what I was was saying, =) most people don't know that polyandry and group marriages exist. They think of one man ten wives when really there have been recorded examples of polyandry and group marriages going back thousand of years. In the words of my CWP teacher "Women can be playas too".

I think a polygamous marriage, especially a group marriage has the potential to create a stronger family unit then a two parent household. Three or more parents means if one person leaves the family unit is still intact and there is less damage to the children. I'd hazard a guess that theres a lot less cheating also.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.

Fro- ???

Your grounded!

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Sir...

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 3:43 p.m.

Have you ever watched the show "Sister Wives"?
I clearly shows how the family unit in a polygamy marriage works. What they go through trying to hide the fact it is a polygamy marriage. One wife lost her job just because her boss found out about it. They lived in fear after allowing TLC to film the family of being arrested. So much so they ended up moving out of the state where they were.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oopsp meant It, not I and polygamous not polygamy

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance too, I don't watch much television. I believe that program just shows a polygynous relationship doesn't it? It would be really interesting to see a show about the family dynamics in a group marriage.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve .. interesting and thought provoking take on three or more parents creating a stronger family unit. It truly fly's in the face of traditional marriage and must be a great way to go!

I appreciate your way of thinking and your willingness to advocate for it.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 3:48...LOL!

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 4 p.m.

The show is a documentary sort of, of a man his 4 wives and their children. They even this past season showed the man's biological mother and his other mother and how that marriage worked.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift my partner and I have done the same thing as you for the last 11 years.We went to a attorney after the 4th or 5th year and had all the papers drawn up so she can sign any thing in case something happens to me and I can for her.We also did a power of attorney for both of us and a living will.It just didn't make economic sense for us to marry legaliy.We are happy with the way we did it and are families are too.We don't need a paper from the State to be happy.

terick — August 31, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hmm, sounds interesting Elisi! I will have to check it out.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Question; If all four wives decide to divorce the one guy, how screwed is he?

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 4:08 p.m

It is very interesting! It shows the inter works of the family.
How each member contributes from the youngest child to the oldest. Each wife has her own home, how they help each other out always thinking of the others and as a family they gather together to make decisions.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Hawkeye!!

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 2:57 p.m

okay Baaaaasil, I was stretching it with the comment about the supernova. Come know how I'll say something just to get a reaction.

You say..."Show us what has informed your thinking about any other possible cause."

I say...I'm not totally convinced. Convince me with words.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, the guy has 4 wives and 16 kids between them. AT the end of last season one of the wives was pregnant with #17.

I think he knows to keep on the good side of all the wives...LOL
Can you imagine tho how much it would cost him if the wives were to divorce him and the amount of child support? Yikes!

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 4:29 p.m

*"I say...I'm not totally convinced. Convince me with words.*

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 2:05 p.m
*"I dispute what the climate change experts are claiming as a cause"*

I'm not sure what you are disputing or not convinced of at this point....

The IPCC report lists all the things that effect the climate, from orbit to cosmic ray to CO2. There's 100+ years of research on the causes and their respective strengths or forcings.

If you don't agree with those numbers, I'd like to see a rational explanation of why you think they are wrong.

We know the range of inputs, we know how much they effect, we know what amounts of anthropogenic co2 we are putting in and can measure the historical effect, we can make a range of predictions of what we are going to add in the future, we know the effect that will have.

If you don't agree with those, I'd like to see a rational explanation of why you think they are wrong.

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, forget that, I have enough trouble keeping ONE happy.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Hawkeye, does she tell you like my mom use to say to my dad when he looked a tad too long at another woman?
Mom would say...why you looking so long at her for, not like you'd know what to do with her if you had her.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I told her when she turned 40, I was going to trade her in for two 20s and she told me I wasn't wired for 220. So true. I joke.

Seriously, she is great and I wouldn't dream of ending it.

hawkeye — August 31, 2011 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve: I am thrilled with your youthful perspective and open-minded wisdom! You have contributed new life and stimulating conversation to this community! Frobert: you must be proud!

Padma: Stick around a little longer and join in more often, please!

nailingit: Did you see the 13 Keys to the White House presentation tonight by that professor, Allan Lichtman, from American U? I am blown away by his research. Fascinating. Check it out:

Are you a little happier with our leader now that he has thrown down the gauntlet over the speech he wants to give to Congress on the 7th? Just wondering........

manthou — August 31, 2011 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes is their business.
The exception occurs when children OR OTHER VULNERABLE POPULATIONS are involved. This is where myself and the Libertarians part company...
So the State has a very important role in the welfare of its citizens and the incidence of abuse and neglect in power relationships, whether they are straight, gay, bi, kinky, multi, whatever. On one level you can say people make their choices and suffer the consequences. But there is a line that is crossed into criminal behavior against others. And their are many clever monsters at large who know how to dart across the line, then dart back across into their nice guy/gal routine. These people are impossible to prosecute and sometimes street justice is the only answer.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Hawkeye you best keep a woman around with that kind of humor!

I think you and I must have picked very good mates!
Hubby and I have been together 45 yrs, married 41 of those.
He's easy going, and puts up with my jokes and pranks.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gay marriage - what about the people opposed to this based on their religious beliefs? Which may be the majority, by the way. Are we going to tell them they have to accept this? If you think "yes", look at the anti-abortion crowd and multiply the opposition they show at least tenfold.

roger — August 31, 2011 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the article on station 6 reopening after the city and the union reaching a contract agreement--

"The union’s approximately 170 members will no longer be on the city’s health plan. Instead, the city will pay what it currently contributes for health care, $1,321 a month per employee...."

Am I right in reading this to mean the city pays $1321 per month for every city employee's health care? If correct, isn't this a bit high? I recall someone mentioning a while back that they were paying about $600 per month for a family of 4, and I thought that was outrageously high. This amount is insane. Bring on national health care - PLEASE.

roger — August 31, 2011 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr Basil Seal, I must make this public apology directly to you. I was quite deceptive in my comments to you, but it was only because I wanted a clear explanation of why you follow the works of the IPCC as I felt it was a good time for you to explain just why you are so adamant about the information provided by the IPCC as well as other links you have shared. Sir, to be is my opinion that sometimes your point doesn't get across as clearly as it should, given the level of education you possess in your life... and frustrating as we may be to you when we present ourselves with something that contradicts what the experts are saying, I understand how it irritates you. What you have just done with your comment at 4:48 pm should just about convince a rock to listen to what you speak. Again I apologize for my tactics with you but I felt it was long overdue to bring out your explanation of the IPCC's major contribution to informing all of us what we truly need to keep aware of and what we could do right now to reduce our impact on the environment.

Basil, when I came up with this hair-brained idea to ...ahem..."Urge" you explain in detail as you did, I'm surprised that you didn't recall my past writes explaining the detailed issue of rainforest depletion, over-development of communities now left with standing, half-built homes from products in our forests along with habitat destruction and the distinct need for coal-fired plants to exceed current global standards...also reminding you that I was a trained stream steward with Clark PUD who volunteered her time trying to reestablish stream habitat. Also was several months ago that I questioned everything about global climate/weather/oceanic changes because it was quite confusing to me. If you recall, you had cleared up my confusion about the first two. I had asked you several questions in which you answered to the best of your ability... and I had thanked you for the dedication to finding the information and sharing with all of us.

Again...for the third time I say to you, I apologize for my deception.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal can add my grins and giggles to the list generated by your writes this afternoon.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and that's "distinct need for coal-fired plants to exceed the current globals standards of efficiency." Sorry about that.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

aw sheesh!!! That's "current GLOBAL" not globals. You'd think I need a cup of coffee or something.

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 31, 2011 at 7:08 p.m.

That has to be just about take home pay for a month at a minimum wage job.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 31, 2011 at 6:51 p.m

"Are we going to tell them they have to accept this?"

Yes, we are.

Religion has no place in politics, just as politics have no place in the church. No one is going to tell churches that they have to perform gay marriages. Saying that over ten percent of the population should be denied their right to marry because the religious right doesn't like it is ridiculous. Thats like saying black people should never have been given the vote because some people didn't think they should.

Also, its a constitutional issue, the 14th amendment equal protection clause gives legal basis for gay marriage. It doesn't matter if the majority likes it or not, the United States government can not condone discrimination against a certain group. If you deny rights to a few that few grows steadily larger until our rights are completely gone.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Frobert!!! You must be proud as punch with Gen's writes!!! I know I would be!

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve, you stated once that you have a great interest in civil rights of minors.
May I suggest you find a way to contact Linda Smith (former 3rd district Rep) she founded Shared Hope International and also works with those victimized through sex trafficking.

ELISI — August 31, 2011 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

fro -

And people wonder why the emergency rooms are crowded with the uninsured.

Gen -

That's an interesting interpretation of the equal protection clause. To be covered, a group has to be categorized as a "suspect" class. Race, gender and religion have been recognized. Sexual orientation hasn't - there was a sodomy case in Texas where this was brought up, but the Supreme Court declined to go beyond saying homosexual and heterosexual sodomy should be treated equally - they refused to grant the "suspect" class status that was being sought. So, unless there's an updated ruling, I don't think it does give the legal basis for marriage you state.

Personally, I don't care who gets married. And I strongly agree with your belief that religion has no place in government (I'm going to presume that's what you mean - politics is little more than Comedy Central). I've posted a couple of rants against evangelical dominionists, who would like us to think that because most of the founding fathers were Christian, they didn't intend for any prohibitions to go outside that world.

However, I go back to the point that most major religions do have a prohibition against homsexuality, and that a majority of the US claims to be Christian. (Demonstrates is another matter.) Same sex marriage may get recognized in a few liberal states, but don't try to make it play in Podunk where ever.

roger — August 31, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- I did not see the Lichtman segment. Interesting link and have read something before about it. Was he on an MSNBC show that can be caught later tonight?

It looks like Obama has caved once again. Proud I am not! Good to see you post! Your wisdom and penchant to bring civility has been sorely missed! Padma was always one of my favorite commenters before we went subterranean, I hope she posts more often also. Isn't Genevieve a jet stream of fresh air in this sometimes dark and dank basement? Maybe America will be okay after all...just maybe.

nailingit — August 31, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou and goldenoldie

Yes I am very proud of Genevieve.

frobert — August 31, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Muammar Qaddafi's well-travelled tent, in which he hobnobbed with dignitaries from around the world, is no more. Rebel troops have torched the colonel's canvas tabernacle...

Thats what I call dumb. They could have sold it on ebay for millions. Or helped with the reconstruction costs which we will probably have to pay for, as usual. Golly and jeepers.

mangoboy — August 31, 2011 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 31, 2011 at 7:54 p.m.

Just because there has not yet been a ruling saying that homosexuality is covered doesn't mean it's not. At one point in time women weren't on that list but they still had rights, it just took them exercising them and advocating for them to get it recognized.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Seems pretty clear cut to me, no state shall deny any person within its jurisdiction equal protection under the law. Saying that 90% of the population has the right to marry, while the other 10% doesn't is doing just that. It's not a matter of interpretation its obvious. If it where to go to the supreme court again they would have to add sexual orientation to the list. The can't just deny thirty million Americans their rights because it rubs some of the religious right the wrong way.

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, Golden, and Manthou thank you for your kind words today. =)

Genevieve — August 31, 2011 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gen -

Your argument is based on belief about what is right. I've no problem with that - I often do the same. And to a point I agree with your views on the topic - I'm just saying that a large part of the country (perhaps a majority) fail to agree. I doubt you'll see the Chief Justice Roberts Supreme Court add this group any time soon. And part of the problem probably lies with that most of the other so-called "protected" groups aren't keen on adding sexual orientation to that status - many of their leaders see this as a personal choice rather than a state of being (or whatever you choose to label this).

Anyhow, to get to my real point in responding to your earlier post - one must be careful with their arguments and use of/lack of use of facts around here - just ask your dad. Both he and his friend Mr. Basil beat me up for this on a regular basis.

Have fun!!

roger — September 1, 2011 at 5:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 31, 2011 at 7:10 p.m.

Glad to have helped.

Now, if Allen were to respond to that same post (, rather than spout denier inanities......

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

For the average person, to believe in human caused climate change is an act of faith. To others, it is simply a belief that all those scientists simply cannot be wrong. And then we have the overconfident type who believe in their infallable ability to be armchair science researchers.

What I find kind of strange is Al Gores equating of climate change denial with racism?

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 8:10 a.m.

*" to believe in"*

That is actually where you go wrong. No need for 'belief', purely simple science and logic.

And let's put your comment about Al Gore's "equating" in full:
Vid @

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"I think a polygamous marriage, especially a group marriage has the potential to create a stronger family unit then a two parent household." (Genovieve)

Not sure that is going to work for too many people...especially when the jealousy gene, the attention gene, and the fairness genes come into play with the "playas."

I'm going to stick with advocating good paying jobs for men (or women) as the best solution to creating and maintaining strong family "units".

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have a question for you..
I remember many years ago there was a scare about the ozone layer being depleted. There was a rush on banning many products using I think it was fluorocarbons? I do know that fluorocarbons causes cancer just to name one.. and recently (I know cause I use a pump inhaler) they removed the propellant used in many of the pump style inhalers, what it was I don't know.

Anyway, they ban the use of fluorocarbons, I had read a couple years ago that the scientists have since found that the eruptions of volcanoes do more harm to the ozone than any man made. That in fact the ozone has a cycle and repairs
Now IF this is true, what IF what you have been saying turns up years from now not to be true? What will they come up with next to ban, scare people with?

ELISI — September 1, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

NEW YORK (AP) -- Goldman Sachs's mortgage subsidiary has agreed to stop many of its controversial mortgage-related practices in a settlement with a New York state banking regulator.

The New York's Department of Financial Services and Banking Department said Thursday the settlement was a condition to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s ability to sell its Litton Loan Servicing subsidiary to a mortgage company Ocwen Financial Corp.

As part of the deal, the Goldman subsidiary said it will stop the practice of robo-signing mortgage paperwork. The practice, which involved signing mortgage affidavits without reviewing the loan documents and notarizing them in a way that violates state law, led to a temporary halt to most mortgage foreclosures in the fall of 2010.

**Funny how they didn't do it until they were told to. Not because it was the right thing to do but because they were forced into it.**

hawkeye — September 1, 2011 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil, we cannot cure the common cold, which should be simple science. How can we predict the behavior of the entire earth climate phenomenon within the context of the solar system? We have been collecting real time data for a mere speck compared to unrecorded history. Look at another vastly less complex system, our economy. It is a black hole, with the best people in the field simply giving us ball park guesses of 50% chance of a double dip recession or similar. What about earthquakes, simple science, right? yet we have no idea.

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"scientists have since found that the eruptions of volcanoes do more harm to the ozone than any man made."*

You seem to be relying on R. Limbaugh for your information ( ); not a good idea in terms of informing your thinking.

And starting with Rush's claim as proof rather makes the rest argument sound like someone talking through their hat.

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, I think it all depends on who you ask and when you ask them. It's like coffee, first it's OK to drink, then it's bad for you and now it's good for you. Tomorrow, who knows. The thing about Nature, it always seems to surprise us.

hawkeye — September 1, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe it is "reasonable" to assume that people are having a profound influence on the planet ecosystem and climate. The question is how much and what will be the "final impact." (ominous sounding, yes?) Quick, to the escape pods!!!! Ha ha ha LOF, long and continuously.

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 8:57 a.m

No Basil I wasn't using Limbaugh,I don't listen to, read, or watch the man. Read Dixie Lee Ray books and you might be informed yourself. Try reaching out to other sources other than the propaganda you do, might just open your eyes.

Now I don't have time for this BS science crap, my father in law just passed away and my husband and his family needs me far more than sitting here arguing with you. Believe the propaganda Basil, they make millions off people just like you.

ELISI — September 1, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hope you are enjoying your hiatus. Your,I hate us...yuk, yuk.

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

going to the forest. later dudes.

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...people are still listening to Limbaugh? Say it ain't so! LOL. We can do better than this...

...but to do better, we should look to informed sources, not only those that feed into our programmed preconceived idea set.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good luck to you ELISI. Best wishes to you and your family during this time.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — September 1, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.

The walks through that....

*time for this BS science crap,*

Interesting that you had time to bring it up, just not have time to argue the point when your "BS science crap" was found wanting.

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 8:54 a.m.
*" cure the common cold, which should be simple science."
*What about earthquakes, simple science, right? yet we have no idea.**

It is?

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

politics should never drive science.

frobert — September 1, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To the powers that be at the 'C'... outside of the weekly forums that have been created, the other forums seem to languish in the darkest corners of the basement. How about a forum with some bite, with the attraction of bringing a broader base of constituent concerns to the basement? Light rail, buses, blanching beans and planting tomatoes are all well and good but... I suggested when you were calling out for them, how about a forum dealing with what many believe fall into the category of victimless crimes? i.e. drug usage and sex for profit? The policies, police practices, enforceability realities, municipality expenditures, social impact, etc.

A new forum devoted to these subjects might languish also, or never get off the ground, but how about a shot? These issues affect more Americans than most Americans would care to admit.

Also, given the interest and practice of same sex marriage, with the variables and nuances that attend this subject, to include government v personal choice v the future, it would also make for some interesting discussion.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm trying to think of a forum name, but can't quite find the words! :)))

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How about People Stuff?

roger — September 1, 2011 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dope Hope & Cope?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How about "Police State"

frobert — September 1, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drugs & Hugs?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I kinda like fro's the best.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey about "Debate on Victimless Crimes Forum"???

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy — September 1, 2011 at 9:09 a.m.

I've been thinking the same thing... escape pods and all, lol.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, my condolences to your family.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2011 at 7:49 a.m.

I guess we all have to consider the fact that not everybody is quick to accept the issues of global climate change. If you ask anybody just walking down the street, the majority will most likely be confused about the meaning of climate versus weather as I was, let alone not recognize the issues which are affecting our global changes. They see the sun come up the same time, the weather rain the same season, the heat arrive some time in summer and the fall winds kick up around the same time. They go to the beach...the waves still come in and go out. The mountains still have snow...

So in layperson's terms...Many don't recognize there's been a change because it hasn't been visible for the most part for those who haven't done the research and would most likely NOT do the research. I'm not sure one person alone could change the world...but it's obvious that each adult in this world have been part of a vast population which has changed the forests, the prairies, the mountains and streams and so on and so forth. It's about changing our habits and being more aware of what we are throwing in the trash...what we utilize in our daily lives and where that spent engine oil should be dumped. It's about being a steward of the land without bending over backwards and drastically changing our lifestyles to make the change.

It's a transition we all make...and the first step is in recycling, reducing energy and other ideas like that as far as I'm concerned. Now if someone can afford to buy solar cells for their home rather than replacing an old worn out heating unit which runs on fossil fuels...then that is a good transition. With the way of cars...well if you've been driving around in a lead sled for years and are ready to buy a new vehicle...even those bigger vehicles are equipped with hybrid technology.

Like Frobert said at 11:23 am, politics should not drive science. In a sense...politics should not be the driving force in everyone becoming stewards of the earth. It begins with person making that change, then one can become one million, and so on and so forth.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, I have to tease you a bit here. You said you don't care about climate change...but I did notice you mention the Petermann Glacier. Maybe just a liiiiiiitle tiny part of you cares...possibly???

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Just for Everyone's Sake...I thought I'd share a general definition of climate and definition of weather:

Climate: How the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time.

Weather: Conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie- Therein lies the debate. I believe most would view the topics as crime with many victims, and as the laws are now, in a way I would agree. Government feels the "need" to intervene, and most polls would no doubt back that up. Especially when conservatives come with pre-conceived notions and unshakeable beliefs, that same sex marriage is sinful, personal drug use that falls into a currently unlawful scheduled category is a sin, and the personal aspirations of a few that wish to apply an intimate, mutually agreed upon service to a fellow adult.. will send you to an eternal hell..unforgiving, hot, causing them to wail endlessly through the corridors of infinity ...AND BEYOND!

Kinda like the backwards thinking thing about global or number of qualified doesn't seem to matter. A different energy...but as negative and unrefined as others.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

How did 'Buzz" Lightyear get his name to begin with anyway? I suggest an inquiry into The Disney-Pixar corporate world. What are they hiding...Darrell Issa...I'm handing you a freebie!

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting article in The Oregonian OpEd section today --

I saw the title and started reading - its all about David Madore. Hmmm....

roger — September 1, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sportyjames- Not bad! Sometimes we forget some of the drugs that used to be illegal i.e.alcohol, are now accepted. Current smokable drugs which were legal i.e. tobacco, and have proven harmful effects are now illegal in many places, sometimes only to smoke in isolation.

We could have a sports forum about sporty on a shtick?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger...what made this article interesting to you? Just a re-hashed Columbian article. What did you find that was new?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***And there it is, Ladies and Gentlemen, hit and run squishyjammies in the "flesh".***

Always a breath of stale air.

hawkeye — September 1, 2011 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I never saw The Columbian article you refer to. And there was nothing new - just a rundown on Madore's business and his websites.

What I found interesting was that although the title suggested the article should address Vancouver, the CRC and light rail, this barely received any play - the story's intent was to build Madore up as a Vancouver community leader in the eyes of Portlanders.

roger — September 1, 2011 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, I am promoting a belief, a belief in the constitution and in this nation. It is the belief that all people are created equal, that the pledge I said everyday in grade school will hold true and someday there will be liberty and justice for ALL. The constitution clearly says that all people have equal rights and protection under the law. If that's not a reliable source to back up my opinion I don't know what is.

The majority of people (including myself) dislike the WBC, Nazi groups, and the KKK but do we deny them their rights to freedom of speech and to peaceably assemble because we don't like what they have to say? No. We continue to protect their freedoms because to not do so is to undermine our constitution and give precedent for everybody's rights to be stripped from them. As Americans it is our duty to protect everyone, not just those we like or agree with.

Genevieve — September 1, 2011 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Dave Lister, the blogger who wrote the Madore "guest column" on Oregonlive, has written a press promo piece, don't you think? This guy is an anti-tax activist across the river who lost a bid for PDX mayor a few years ago. He made a big stink about moving his business from Portland to Tigard to avoid the business tax imposed in that city. We were smarter and moved our business to Vancouver. :)

He seems to have a man crush on Madore. :)

Maybe Madore put him up to it.

Regardless, Madore's reach and influence is growing.

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 12:34 p.m

Nailingit, you labeled me as one with an Ultra-Conservative agenda (August 30, 2011 at 7:42 a.m)...

I've got to laugh at that and hope you do too once you're done reading my comment. Your comment at 12:34 p.m today, speaks of conservatives that """*come with pre-conceived notions and unshakeable beliefs, that same sex marriage is sinful, personal drug use that falls into a currently unlawful scheduled category is a sin, and the personal aspirations of a few that wish to apply an intimate, mutually agreed upon service to a fellow adult.. will send you to an eternal hell..unforgiving, hot, causing them to wail endlessly through the corridors of infinity ...AND BEYOND!*""" Your words exactly.

Okay, here's the funny part. Nailingit...I have no issues with homosexual couples the fact that they have a right to be married. Although I live my life in the traditional sense...male/female-husband/wife... that doesn't mean I'm going to tell the rest of the world that it's our way or the highway. Sorry to tell you this but we are all God's children...even those who are unbelievers. I accept life as it happens. I have relatives as well as friends who are/were homosexual (some have passed) and I feel no different with them as I do heterosexuals. Send them to eternal hell??? Rather drastic thought...even coming from you.

As far as personal drug use with a certain scheduled drug. Do I condemn those who are addicted? I would rather see them receive help for their get off of the nasty crap and the cost should be paid for in full by BIG Pharma.

So you see why I was laughing at the silliness of your post??? Am I really that BIG TIME Ultra Conservative with a big agenda you were claiming previously??? I admit I think rather conservatively...but I'm hardly some hardline like you are trying to make me out as.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The law of the land is covered by the Defense of Marriage Act. There are a handful of states that allow same sex marriages to be performed or will recognize those from other states. There are many more states with laws prohibiting these unions. Whether the few states that permit them are in violation of law is unclear. On the surface, this would seem to fall within the purview of the states in that there's nothing remotely related to marriage granted to the federal gov't. However, the federal government has usurped states rights and powers so often, this has become an almost meaningless distinction.

These conflicts are supposed to be resolved by the Supreme Court. I doubt anyone wanting to see equal status granted would be foolish enough to take the case there at this time - the best that could be hoped for is that they would refuse to hear the case. But the odds are also good that they would hear it to resolve the issue, and I strongly believe Scalito, Thomas, would be sure to rule against it. This is an issue that will require an amenable Court, which probably won't be any time soon.

As near as I can tell, there are no Constitutional duties assigned to the average person not holding government office, except perhaps to take up arms to defend the country. A moral obligation, no matter how "right" it is, cannot be carried over to become a duty for anyone other than the person holding that belief.

Good luck and continue your fight toward correcting this injustice. The Pres and Congress have taken a first step by repealing DADT. But I don't expect to see much more than this in my lifetime - while the average person is becoming more tolerant of gays, most are still not willing to allow the same marital status as heterosexual couples. I believe you stated in one of your earlier posts that you wanted to get a degree in law? If so, then perhaps one day you can be a member of the team that successfully argues this before the Court and gets the law of the land changed.

roger — September 1, 2011 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou; I just looked at the Madore article, not really interesting, more of an advertisement, I would say. I also looked at "" . They say " is dedicated to providing a nonbiased news source for Clark County." Not too informative, all "G" rated, vanilla stuff.

hawkeye — September 1, 2011 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was wondering who Lister was. I was also wondering if The Oregonian editorial staff read past the article's title.

David Madore has stepped up his attack on the Vancouver City government. Part of the reason is fairly obvious - he wants people to vote for his candidates. But I'm still left wondering what his own political aspirations are. The only thing I'm seeing right now is his becoming an old style party boss, controlling officials he got elected from behind the scenes. Which also seems to be what we have right now, with ICC currently running the show. I guess we'll eventually see this play out.

roger — September 1, 2011 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 5:30- My comment was directed at prevalent conservative thought, nothing to do with you or any one individual. it doesn't surprise me that you cherry pick mainstream conservative ideals. Most strong conservatives tend to color their beliefs with mainstream society. It enables them to function readily at a social level, in which ordinarily they would not be respected or taken seriously if they were to expound on their beliefs. There is a reason "conservative" candidates won't take "personal questions" from the media concerning their faith. A practice that needs to stop.

Do we want a president who believes "God" helps them decide major issues which impact our lives? Their finger on the trigger of a nuke, and God says, "They are the enemies of Israel. Find a way to invade their country and avenge my people!" I wonder if Bush had a conversation with god before he authorized the slaughter of over 100,000 innocent Iraqi men women and children.

The way of thinking I presented @ 12:34 is prevalent in the Christian conservative world. You know this. Or is this a ruse/guise/game as was such with mr_basil_seal recently.?.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Your post above makes a whole lotta sense to me. I do think David Madore is not very interested in running for office himself, but he sure has invested a lot of his time and money on people who do not present to the public as well as he does.

He comes off so understated, respectful and very intelligent. He understands the concept of speaking softly so people shut up and listen harder to hear him. Brilliant. Then he backs candidates who rail and yell and threaten and scold and gesture and emote and...Honestly, they have not had much success at getting elected yet because it is so odious to have to listen to them. :)

I'd love to understand his motivation. I really doubt is is entirely altruistic. There is something in this for David Madore, but damned if I can figure it out yet.

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Our friend, nailingit's response to goldenoldie at 6:23 may touch upon Madore's motivation, now that I think about it.

How do I say this to avoid ruffling the feathers of our Christian participants here? I do not mean this disrespectfully: Many evangelical Christians, like Madore, are motivated to make sure their faith and followers are well-represented (shall I say dominate?) in various "pillars" of society like education, business, government, media, entertainment, art, and family. By gaining control and power in these critical areas, they help wrestle control from the "demons" (like nailingit and alleycat and manthou) back to God. Or something like that.

I must say that I work with a couple of people who actually chose to work in our area of social service because they literally believe they will "earn" more jewels in the heavenly crown. I sould never dissaude them from that belief, but it is stunning to think about. We are not making much money on earth, for sure. :)

I cannot speak for David Madore, but I suspect his throwing so much money into like-minded candidates is his way of helping the heavenly "cause."

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Naiingit, I deserved that comment you said...referring to a ruse such as I had to Basil, but I'm a pretty good judge of character in the fact that Basil didn't get all caught up in emotion rather than sharing in discussion. I think Basil has a lot to offer everyone and is quite convincing even without the links, although the links emphasize the statements he shares.

I have apologized to the gentleman and I am saying to you that everything I said to you in my comment at 5:30 was tricks, no joke. I was merely pointing out to you how you were labeling me as an ultra conservative with some agenda, then you mentioned in your later comment regarding how conservatives think when it comes to homosexuality and the eyes of a person who considers herself as one who thinks and lives conservatively. I thought you would have seen the humor in the contradiction of my personal thoughts regarding homosexuality as well as drug users who abuse Schedule(1) narcotics, to your thoughts about conservatives, that's all.

Truthfully...and I mean that as such nailingit, I am a somewhat open-minded person (sometimes stubbornheaded, I admit it) and will make statements, no matter how controversial they may be in the discussion in order to spark the urge for people to react. I've made that perfectly clear multiple times in the past. By doing such, I have learned a lot about the perception of news and events by everyone... even learned things which I hadn't a clue about previously and will continue to do so as time goes by. And it is my observation that I'm not the only one who sparks conversation in this manner.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou.....quite a select list LOL!

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and it's not cherrypicking. Just an observation and I was having a bit of fun with it, nailingit. You have a good evening...same goes for everyone else!!!

Enjoy these cooler days and nights. Sounds like it's going to heat up next week!!!

Night all!!!

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I wear that badge and mingle with the "best" with a great deal of pride and honor! :D

Seriously, we all need to be digging very deeply into the motivations of Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, and others. AS you explained earlier: do we want folks listening to a vengeful, wrathful God with their finger poised over the nuke button?

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the CEO of Starbucks (thought some of you might be interested in this):

Dear Friend--

I love our country. And I am a beneficiary of the promise of America. But today, I am very concerned that at times I do not recognize the America that I love.

Like so many of you, I am deeply disappointed by the pervasive failure of leadership in Washington. And also like you, I am frustrated by our political leaders’ steadfast refusal to recognize that, for every day they perpetuate partisan conflict and put ideology over country, America and Americans suffer from the combined effects of paralysis and uncertainty. Americans can’t find jobs. Small businesses can’t get credit. And the fracturing of consumer confidence continues.

We are better than this.

Three weeks ago, I asked fellow business leaders to join me in urging the President and the Congress to put an end to partisan gridlock, and in its place, to set in motion an upward spiral of confidence. More than 100 business leaders representing American companies – large and small – joined me in signing a two-part pledge.

First, to withhold political campaign contributions until a transparent, comprehensive, bipartisan debt and deficit package is reached that honestly, and fairly, sets America on a path to long-term financial health and security.

Second, to do all we can to break the cycle of economic uncertainty that grips our country by committing to accelerate investment in jobs and hiring.

In the weeks since then, I have been overwhelmed by the heartfelt stories of Americans from across the country, sharing their anguish over losing hope in the strongest and most galvanizing force of all – the American Dream. Some feel they have no voice. Others feel they no longer matter. And many feel they have been left behind.

We cannot let this stand.

Please join other concerned Americans and me for a national call-in conversation on Tuesday, September 6th at 7:30 p.m. eastern time hosted by “No Labels”, a nonpartisan organization dedicated to fostering cooperative and more effective government. Click here for more information and to RSVP.

America is at a fragile and critical moment in its history. We must restore hope in the American Dream. We must celebrate all that America stands for around the world. And while our Founding Fathers recognized the constructive value of political debate, we must send the message to today’s elected officials in a civil, respectful voice they hear and understand, that the time to put citizenship ahead of partisanship is now.

Yours is the voice that can help ignite the contagious upward spiral of confidence that our country desperately needs.

With great respect,

Howard Schultz
chief executive officer, Starbucks Coffee Company

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou...before I sign off, I wanted to ask you a question. You said Madore is throwing so much of his money on like-minded candidates to help his "heavenly cause." Did you actually find a correlation between his choices to donate to and Evangelical Christians? Have you ever thought he could relate to the people because of the attitude they possess due to the strength in their beliefs? I do agree with you that we should do our homework on the motivations of Bachmann, Perry and others and at the same time, check into the motivations of past and present president(s) and their motivations since they were all recorded as attending church in recent years.

BTW, if you're curious, I'm not an evangelical Christian, although I am a Christian. I was raised in a Catholic home although I do not attend church on a regular basis. I do however continue to pray as I hold to the values I was raised upon and prayer is a part of my life. I figure if God is... he will hear me at prayer anywhere I choose to pray. Some people say there is no God...well, I respect their beliefs as well but it's a spiritual belief and spirituality in any capacity is emotionally uplifting and gives a person a good feeling, even with the hope that there is someone who you can believe in that can heal souls and can help to improve existence. The discussion you have with another who has similar beliefs generates a good feeling and open discussion.

I guess if you've never experienced it, that would be a difficult feeling to understand, but all I'm
saying is that the power of prayer (no matter to what entity...even if it's to your own self) is like the power of positive thinking...and that is what I believe in.

Don't ask me why I had to explain just felt right to share right about now.

Another observation...when I went to the C-Tran Open House...when Madore spoke up, he was no different than anybody else. He wasn't preaching his religion...just asking questions and making comments on the subject at hand. So what's with this Evangelical Christian Movement??? I sure as heck didn't see it.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Badge of honor immediately entered my mind! LOL! I agree. Motivations mean so much when the stakes are at this level. No presidential candidate should back away from talking about what gets them up in the morning. There is a strong movement that embraces societal chaos to hurry the "rapture" and the second coming of Christ. A few months ago Franklin Graham was declaring Twitter, cell phone cams, etc. will be used to record Jesus coming to earth, floating on the clouds.....

Jim DeMint, Vitter, Palin, Bachman, Perry, Romney, Huckerbee ( I think he went for the $$$ at fox and is out) the past Falwell, Robertson, BUSH...incredible candidates put forth from the every level of Government, and they are taken seriously.......

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know something, nailingit??? Whenever I hear of people speaking about the second coming of Christ as they know how it's going to happen and when...I've got to wonder just how stable these people are. I was taught that nobody knows when that time would be IF it ever happened and if it did happen in our lifetime.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Come to think of it, Manthou and Nailingit...I'm wondering if there's any correlation to the politicians you suspect as being Evangelical Christians and the Bohemian Grove. From what I've heard and read about traditions at that location, that might be something the both of you should look into.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I made a clear disclaimer that I cannot speak for David Madore. My hunch is just that: a theory. An opinion. A speculation.

The people funded by Madore are people of similar faith. Is he funding their campaign in an effort to increase diversity of opinion and culture variety? I doubt it. He is funding their campaign to increase like-minded folk in a position of power in government.

It is naive to think that religious motivation does not play a part in his plan.

And it sure is better to keep that possibility in mind when determining who gets my vote.

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Manthou, I have always separated religious beliefs from political choices...but now, you have opened my mind to taking a different look at the political candidates and checking to see if there is a pattern. It would be interesting to find out who has attended the Bohemian club meetings and compare that to the list of candidates.

and I saw that you had said your disclaimer. I just thought maybe you knew something the rest of us didn't. Anyhow, thanks for opening my eyes a bit more.

(sorry about any typos tonight...I'm using a computer other than my own).

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think it is very possible to separate our personal religious beliefs from our politics and work. I have to because I work for the state. I cannot take a group of the children I serve and pray with them. I cannot preach my religion to them because it violates the separation of church and state and imposes my beliefs on them. Their parents would raise holy hell, as they should.

We, as voters, should demand the same from our legislators.

There are some people who don't feel a need to do that. There are some who believe it is mandated to merge their personal religion with their governing. They are called by God to do that. I think that attitude is arrogant and dismissive of the rich diversity that we enjoy in this country.

When people who govern all of us do that, they diminish your personal religious choices as they do mine by declaring their way as the ONLY way.

Not every person of faith in government does that. But there is an increase in those that do.

That is the risk, goldie. Or, at least the risk as I see it.

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes it takes the right person to spell it out in plain English as you have for people to understand the crux of what I see as a form of religious persecution thrust upon those who support freedom of religion by those who you speak of that declare their religious way as the ONLY way. and you are absolutely right, manthou. That IS an issue that we all should keep a close watch on.

And Manthou...have you noticed of late, how this has just suddenly blossomed from out of thin air??? Five years ago, people would be wondering what episode of Twilight Zone these fanatics were on. Do you think maybe it's the 12/21/12 doomsday, end of the world fear that is being driven into the minds of those to the point that they actually believe there's going to be some big apocalypse??? do you suppose the political leaders and hopefuls are banking on the fears of the people, putting on some kind of personification that they can heal all if elected??? I mean...promising no tolls is one thing...but promising God to appear is something way out in left field if you know what I mean.

Maybe we're putting the politicians on too high a pedestal.

goldenoldie — September 1, 2011 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie...nothing has "blossomed out of thin air". The movement is just to the forefront because we got somun a lil' ... diferaunt now in the WHITE House of all places!

It explains in part the 2010 Elections. What was it... how many 'months' ago did he display a birth certificate?

This "conservative" grab the god money and run has really taken off since the Reagan debacle. I believe when it's all said and done, Reagan will have proved himself to be possibly the most damaging president in history.

At least Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson aren't on the GOP ticket this year.

Today's conservative movement provides a warm home to racists, bigots, hypocrites, predators and just about anyone else that crawls from underneath a rock. Unfortunately a lot of good, well meaning people get caught up with the tangled, money grubbing web of modern day conservatism. It doesn't matter what you do for a buck. A follower of Jesus today, is as at home watching a porno, going to church, feeding the war machine or advocating cutting off medical services to seniors, the sick and vulnerable in order to get a tax break. Sickening.

Conservatives are ruining this country......on a lighter note..the weathers supposed to warm up again?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

But the GOP has a little something for everyone...David Duke still on the Republican ticket for 2012?

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sarah Palin, George Bush, Michele Bachman, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck...these "folk" are representative of today's elite conservative movement. Only one of them were able to get us closer to their "Armageddon". And he's got a brother in Florida we have to keep an eye on.

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 10:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ :42...a cry for help in the night.....precious!

nailingit — September 1, 2011 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — September 1, 2011 at 8:14 p.m.

So tell me what you think of David Madore and his "bestie" Josephine Wentzel. Talk about a connection to politics/religion. You can bet there will be a lot of Madore money pumped into her campaign.

Oh and while I'm thinking about it, I saw that the Living Hope Church is up for sale. Are they moving or cashing out?

hawkeye — September 1, 2011 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Utterly appalling conversation tonight. I now know why very few chooses to comment here. Not one of you snotty high noses have a clue what a Christian, Evangelical Christian, or for that matter what a Born again Christian is.

Each of you high nose whiners cry about rights, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion when it is for your interests.
Let anyone who believes in God speak up and it is...load the torpedo's of hate, aim, and discredit at all cost. Doesn't the democratic party boost about tolerance and compassion?
Everyone of you must be quite proud of yourselves.

soul_pancake — September 2, 2011 at 1:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Soul_pancake, you brought a smile to my face with your writes of righteousness and condemnation of others who are in discussion, which is your right to do as such. Glad you have joined in. I hope you continue the discussion today. It's an eye opener and definitely gathers attention, although in the manner spoken...probably the wrong attention. All I can say is "Speak Up" (wo)man.

The number one thought I have right now, which surfaced after reading the comments of others, is the fact that those of us who believe in Christ and God also believe in helping others and improving life for all, not just a select few. Now I'm not speaking for anybody who is in the limelight who displays any certain pattern to suit the needs of their congregation or of their religious affiliation. I'm speaking for myself. For anybody who follows their religion, they should be following the ideals of caring...caring about their family, their friends, their community, their nation, the world. We reach out to help others in need, even if we have needs of our own which aren't met. There is always someone out there who has a situation worse than our own.

We cannot "rejoice" our successes till the success of a better world (not monetarily speaking, either) has been met and suffering disappears.

Now...for people to assume folks like Madore are out for a religious-backed agenda for some private reason because they are soft spoken and friendly, I believe is wrong. I don't hear him "preaching" his religious beliefs, telling everyone "You must listen to Me because I've been told by God that .....(fill in the blank)." Now I'm not saying there aren't folks like that as there are...but a character assassination of someone who isn't afraid to mention his Christian-based ideals while discussing matters at hand is just flat out wrong in my opinion.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

btw, it is also my opinion that those who are openly claiming to have been told by God to make political decisions...had better show something substantial to the people which proves they actually conversed with the supreme being or they're going to be readily labeled as nut cases.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see you pulled a "goldie" this week, alleycat. It's hard to stay away, isn't it!!! THIS is the place to vent your opinion, your frustrations. BTW, you're hitting that "bold" key again.

With all that rantin' and ravin' you're doing, we both agree on one statement of your comment and that is "get religion out of politics now!" Our government and any elected leaders must remember that "separation of church and state" thing. Manthou has expressed that quite clearly in her post at 8:14 pm.

Naive??? Maybe so...but you don't need to cram your thoughts down everyone's throats, expecting us to follow your beliefs, alley. That would put you just about in the same realm as those who are trying to cram their religious beliefs down the throats of each and every one of us, expecting us to follow them as well...and that's my opinion, alley.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yo Chief! Good to see you back.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

@1:13...great example.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen- To curtail votes that are mostly democratic. The Republicans manufacture voting fraud allegations continuously, i.e. the ACORN debacle which proved to be nothing, but the harm was done. To restrict rights and intimidate is what our friendly GOP is all about. Imagine being a woman in Kansas who wants an abortion.

These mindless immoral thugs need to be voted out. Yesterday.

Meanwhile back at the ranch of was the republicans putting faux democratic candidates in Wisconsin to skew the vote!

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope not Allen. I think the baggers have made the public quite knowledgeable of what and who they stand for.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Should we be concerned about Hanford???

2.2 2011/08/29 19:32:42 ( 8 mi) NNE of West Richland, WA

2.6 2011/08/26 19:53:06 ( 9 mi) N of Richland, WA

1.0 2011/08/23 23:31:35 10 km ( 6 mi) N of Richland, WA

Although these appear minor when compared to what just hit in the Aleutian Islands this morning (7.1), it is an active fault line in the region of Richland.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well I see the earthquake in the Aleuts was downgraded to a 6.8.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Conservative Jesus lovin' Koch Bros have been trying to dismantle Public Education and bring back to segregation in North Carolina through a group called ALEC. Racism is one of the heart valves that pumps blood into GOP mindset.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just an observation...

I note the fact that some here are saying the extremist religious fanatics are trying to take over our government and I acknowledge that fact and concur. What I do not condone is the words of those whose own political agenda is muddied with hits against those with conservative ideals who believe in Christ, trying to make a comparison that all conservatives are bible-thumping "Hallelujah" followers whose mindset has been brainwashed into thinking it's their way or no way. It's not about that, people. Not all of us conservative thinkers follow the mindset of these extremists. And like Manthou said...we need to keep a close watch on those people who are pushing their agendas which include such brainwashing and vote accordingly.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After the Republicans almost seated Sarah Palin in the White House, and after 8 years of GW (amazing..I can't believe the stupidity..anyway) I wondered what they would come up with next. Rick Perry, Michele Bachman...they have outdone themselves once again!

It's important we don't differentiate between the baggers and the Republican party...there is zero difference. Unfortunately.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Religious fanatics trying to take over....and what happened 1996-2008? Let's stop it from happening again! At least stem cell research has been freed up from these mainstream backward conservatives.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In addition to Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell not running, I suppose we can be grateful Pat Buchanan isn't running. These Religious/politics are anything but new. Lets wake up!

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not meaning to extend the beating of this poor equine too much longer, I want to say, mostly in response to soul_pancake, that expressing concern over any religious group that bullies others into submission and group-think is not a blanket condemnation of God, prayer, religion.

Freedom of religion is what brought many to this country. It still does.

Force-feeding specific dogma to all, basing legislation on one religious viewpoint violates respect for individual choice and the freedom of expression we all cherish.

Goldenoldie touches upon this at 7:51 am.

Soul-pancake is blind to the big picture.

Sportyjames still brings a smile to my face, God help me. Go figure.

manthou — September 2, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Funny one, Allen...I guess if that were true, then God/Yahweh,/Buddha/Alla/insert other name/ Mother Earth has been reminding Alaskans about something for centuries. A 6.8 in the Aleuts is not that uncommon.

Manthou...thanks. And yes, SportyJames brings smiles to my face as well with their wit and humor.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — September 2, 2011 at 7:38 a.m.

You are always complaining about the Koch brothers, do you realize they provide 45000 union wage jobs in their G-P division alone? Or that in the past 10 years they have donated 800 million in philanthropic donations, compared to 200 million in political(most of which goes to think tanks)? They have been quite vocal against the wars, the war on drugs and the patriot act? They have supported causes like gay marriage and stem cell research?

frobert — September 2, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope! Don't know who SportyJames is other than just another poster. I find humor in the matter how blatant and short they may be....even when they're digs at my posts. You also asked me if I know Soul-Pancake. I have my ideas of who they might be, but it's only speculation on my part. Let's just say...I'll keep those thoughts to myself, Alley.

And Alley...there is no doubt in my mind that there's been a master plan in place for some time...but you need to see past this Preacher-style politics we are witnessing and what you see just might turn your stomach upside down. Let's just say people need to do a little homework and delve into the writes on the world of the Illuminati and Bohemian Grove. Religious based...yes. Christianity??? Maybe...along with other forms of worship. Conspiracy? No...documented history.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — September 2, 2011 at 7:01 a.m.

I miss the days when P.J. O'Rourke wrote for Rolling Stone, at least he had a clue.

frobert — September 2, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Alleycat, are you sure about where you stand? How can you be so sure the people you support aren't false prophets themselves? They disguise themselves well.

The NUMBER ONE mistake most people make is that once they vote a person into their elected position, the people don't follow through with asking the questions and telling the politicians about their concerns. If they can't get any answers through one politician...then they nag the living daylights out of another and so on and so forth. We pay these people to do their jobs and if we are seeing that we aren't getting our money's worth...just as quickly as we hired them in...they can be knocked out of their position come next election. BTW, the same goes for those who aren't in elected positions in the government. They have the job...paid for by the people. If we see them lacking in their duties and just sit back and shake our heads, then we are letting ourselves down. If they claim there's no funding...act on it. Ask the questions as to why there's no funding. Ask the questions as to how the problem can be fixed. If you see a problematic situation where you think there might be a way to redirect funding to save taxpayer dollars, recommend it. The worst that could happen is your idea would be turned down.

It's all about getting involved. If everyone sits back and watches our leaders make decisions without the public input...we're letting ourselves down. If there is a politician in office who you opposed, do you just scream out how lousy a job they're doing and hope everyone hears or do you write the letters, call their offices, send the emails and get involved in public gatherings in order to let them know what we expect of them???

We see a void in our government services that was once paid for by taxpayers and budget cuts hit. Do we scream at the government for having the need to cut that service...or do we gather as a community and volunteer our support to help one another? I have a feeling we will see more of this type of scenario, Alley. Are you up to the task of being part of the community to help life be a bit easier for the less fortunate or do we sit back, hope for more loan money from China in order to become more lazy and dependent on our government for every single little thing?

Alleycat...I know where I stand.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — September 2, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

The think tanks they have founded and finance are libertarian, therefore they are conservative in nature but support many liberal causes.

Yes, the Koch brothers donate to conservative causes, but it is just a drop in the bucket compared to the combined liberal donations of Gates, Buffet, Bloomberg and Soros. Unlike these liberal donors, the Koch brothers provide American union jobs.

frobert — September 2, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Our local champion for justice...Jaime Herrera-Beutler, serves on the transportation and infra structure committee. It'll be interesting to get her take on Obama's jobs speech next week. I'd like to hear the thoughts from her head, rather than the GOP talking points she'll be instructed to follow. Not to say which would be more substantive.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay Alleycat, I hear what you are saying and actually agree with most of your points. Now I have a question for you about those "junk" candidates. What choice do we have in the matter when it comes to election time and that's all we have on the ticket? A write in could easily put the candidate you'd least want right into office.

One concern I have with one of your ideas is with building up not out. It would be interesting to do a comparison of the number of condos built in the area as opposed to the number of new homes in the area and compare the percentage of hew owners/residents. Building up not out is good for BIG cities...maybe even for Vancouver (I can't believe I"m saying that), but for smaller towns like Yacolt, Amboy, Washougal, LaCenter and Woodland...I don't think that it would work. There has to be incentives to move to the condo style of living in a big metropolis. Not all people want to move TO the city, but urban sprawl is ruining what is left of the country because of not enough property restrictions in my opinion. I know some landowners will disagree with me on that, though.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wish everyone a safe Labor Day Weekend. Watch out for those crazy drivers!!!

goldenoldie — September 2, 2011 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the words of caution, goldie. We are staying home this weekend to minimize the traffic headaches. I have had enough.

Your discussion about alley's suggestion of building up got my attention. I remember a very insightful post by someone named Zach last year that summed up the problem with Light Rail in Clark County so well.

This guy said that Light Rail works best in "vertical" communities. Those that have built "UP" and are densely populated are served well by light rail.

He pointed out, as you did, that Clark County is mostly "horizontal" with sprawling construction. Light rail is not practical, therefore, anywhere but downtown and uptown Vancouver, if you use that analysis.

That posting really made sene to me. It put it all so simply. I need that sometimes. :)

manthou — September 2, 2011 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — September 2, 2011 at 5:31 p.m

I totally agree, anytime you have to ***drive*** to get to your transportation, it's going to be a massive failure. It's a joke.

hawkeye — September 2, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anderson Cooper is doing an investigative piece on 'Believer's Baptist Church'. It's about alleged child abuse. Forcing kids to drink water and not letting them urinate among other things. I wish "Christians" cared a tenth as much about children outside of the womb as they do before they are born. Perhaps many of them feel their responsibility stops at delivery.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If anyone gets a chance check Cooper's piece sometime if online. It's on the subject of "Christian" discipline that I was talking about in here a couple of weeks ago, when a few on here just wouldn't accept what I was saying. This is mainstream stuff with the Christian community. If you don't beat the "hell" out of your child, then you are not doing God's will.

Conservatives are ruining this country...........

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Did anybody see the story on KPTV about the "Mars Hill Church" that is moving in NW Portland? It appears that they consider gays the same as cancer patients.

hawkeye — September 2, 2011 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen...and there are conservative dems as well. Let's be careful not to "blur" the lines when it comes to numbers and responsibility. It's not fair to apply equal blame to an unequal situation. Democrats and republicans both have countless faults and you would be hard pressed to find anyone that believed everything and Kowtowed to party line.

We can't blur these lines next year. It's clear which party is obstructing progress in our country, due in much for a personal as well as a philosophical hatred (I don't know why, his policies are more Republican than democrat) for our president.

Sure both parties are to blame. It's like the guy who didn't lock his house up. Someone breaks in when no ones home, steals a gun, and kills a few people.....the guy that forgot to lock his house must assume some responsibility but.................

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen- I know. "It's the I've got mine and don't care about anyone else" attitude. I have to think some of these one termers have been promised employment on the outside when they get fired, from the likes of the Koch Bros and their ilk.

nailingit — September 2, 2011 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mangoboy @ 8:17 PM: Thanks for the video link! Fantastic mental re-frame to view time and again. It shakes us out of the "poor me" syndrome and puts it all in perspective.

hawkeye: I read about the Mars Hill Church opening up a branch in SE Portland. It will be very interesting to see if they clash with the ultra diverse and liberal residents that dominate that great part of Portlandia.

Lou Brancaccio: Hooray for your Press Talk this morning! You help educate the sleepy-headed voters with humor. You are so spot on about these "listening" sessions. They are a clever trick to avoid the dialogues between legislators and voters we used to get in Town Halls. Thanks for highlighting this latest ruse.

manthou — September 3, 2011 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning fellow basement dwellers! I've got to say that Mister Lou is on a roll lately. Remember the famous quote by the jail warden in the old Paul Newman movie..."Cool Hand Luke"??? It definitely pops into my mind after reading Lou's Press Talk Column. Of course, the quote is....

"What We Have Here....Is a Failure To Communicate!"

understatement of the century

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — September 2, 2011 at 5:31 p.m

We're doing the same thing this weekend. I don't feel like hassling with the traffic. Last year, we saw a nasty wreck on HWY 26. Too many impatient people on the road.

As far as what I shared on urban sprawl...glad you could see where I was coming from.

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, after reading your post, I had to peek at Lou's Press Talk. Yeah...I'd say it's been altered.

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Altered, when?

If it has been it's subtle enough I can't see it. I just checked the dead tree version against the "E" one. It looks word for word to me (shrug).

Oh! You're talking about Jamie's ear and hand! Gotcha. Sheesh.

Drift — September 3, 2011 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It would be nice if Rep Jaime was more engaged with the voters, but realistically, she cannot do much. One very junior representative with no clout. Never send a girl to do a woman's job.

mangoboy — September 3, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jaime, Jamie... whatever.
(I've a granddaughter named "Jamie")

Drift — September 3, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow it took this long for Sweet Lou to write something "negative" about our junior representitive.. Negative sells, it's an easy essay for anyone to do these days. Pick any person in the media and one could expound for pages of such Dirth. And were saying this article is a winner.. Wow have we lowered our standards or praising Lou for his Literary acumen.
Me personally will be waiting for a more educational piece from Mr Sweet Lou...I wonder what his piece will look like on "Labor Day"? Going outside ~~~

vanwadreamer — September 3, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think that's the ear she uses when Boehner talks, so she can learn exactly what the Repubs want her to say and do. Just as that's the hand she uses when she needs another handout from her "constituents", ask Madore, I'll bet he's seen it.

I agree with cat, she's done.

Mangoboy, so tell me, should we not expect the same level of service from a first term-er as we expect from a "seasoned" member? Don't they receive the same pay and benefits? If that's not the case, then the pay scale should change.

hawkeye — September 3, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Personally, I think Lou needs to take a class in creative writing. I always find his editorials to be badly written. having said that, I am glad to see the FIRST somewhat negative comment about HB from him. That was about time.
And Hawk, maybe the pay scale should change but do not hold your breath. They take care of themselves very well, and to heck with the rest of us. She is done, I agree - contrary to the usually glowing review she gets from our FB friends on the other side. I expect someone like her to actually spend more time in town halls, more time listening, to be fresh and willing to listen and make a change. I do not expect a new face to immediately fall in line with the party - and that's what we got with her. She wasted no time with independent thinking. Stepped off the plane in DC and fell in line.

luvithere — September 3, 2011 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

sporty- Your comments are more tolerable, when they are much shorter.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...lather, rinse, repeat.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Sporty, if we are so buried here and so un-important, and repeat ourselves ad nausea - why are you here?
Jamie ran on platform of jobs and fresh air and fresh thinking- so yea, we can challenge her on her non-existing performance.
And disgruntled uneducated truck driver with kooky right-wing leanings - that you?

luvithere — September 3, 2011 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — September 2, 2011 at 8:12 p.m

"Most of the money for the union busting governor came from the Koch brothers."

The Koch brothers were his fifth largest individual contributor, accounting for a little more than 4/10 of one percent of his total contributions. This hardly amounts to "most of the money"

frobert — September 3, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, I see squishyjammies had another thought.

Here's one for you, bub. If you want to come here and actually ***participate*** in the conversation, please do. But if your rants (the shorter the better) are just a way of you popping off, thanks but no thanks.

Uneducated truck driver???? Who might that be?

hawkeye — September 3, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

fro- Walker received $$43,000from the Koch Bros. in 2010..the second highest contributor to his campaign. Also, please don't disregard the PAC money which amounts to untold monies being funneled in. After the 'conservative' Citizens United's all a crap shoot keeping track of who gets what.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 10:50 a.m

Northwestern Mutual 54,325

Marshall & Ilsley Corp 51,208

National Assn of Realtors 43,125

Concerned Realtors Cmte 43,125

Koch Industries 43,000

The Koch brothers also donated 1 million to the Republican Governors association who also spent 65,000 on advertisements. If you consider that the entire 65,000 came from the Koch brothers and then add all third party advertisements to the total contributions, the Koch influence actually drops to 1/10 of one percent.

frobert — September 3, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

fro- Not to split hairs, but didn't the Koch bros also "donate" 1 Million dollars to the Wisconsin Governors Association of same year? If you care to cite your source, but it makes little difference with the channeling of PAC money. The Koch Bros are conservative, so what? They contribute vast amounts of money to further their conservative causes, so what? Dems do the same for different reasons.

Both sides have unlimited resources. We need to make elections fairer. It shouldn't require someone to be a multi-millionaire good ol' boy to become President. And when we hire outside of that criteria, as we did in 2008, we get a weak-kneed inexperienced adult who apparently has zero personal resolve for helping the unemployed, environment, unions, tax breaks, gitmo, wars, onandonandonandon. Either he doesn't care enough to fight for the causes in which got him elected, or his agenda was different than what he campaigned on.

Either way he is proving himself to be the most ineffective President in US History. What a waste of a great opportunity to do some really great things for our country.

Torch citizens United, and introduce campaign finance laws with bite and meaning.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Remember the old days? When politicians had to get in front of a big crowd of real people who would ask them real questions?"

Lou, you and many other folks of your generation are living in a dream world.
The world is changing, the rules are changing. If you elect a pretty face who can smile and follow a few simple talking points, what do you expect?
Cannot you see what is happening in our country, in Washington, D.C.,the bland, party line leadership, paralyzing polarization? The nation is flat lining, and needs 50,000 volts--ASAP. Jamie cannot hold the paddles, much less comfort the patient...
Even if Rep Jamie had an over-abundance of talent, what can she do as a first term-er? Most of the folks clamoring for attention more likely need their Mommy or a therapist, anyway.
Her job is to serve the needs of the entire district, not to the few who come to a public forum. No, just more complaining by fat, stupid cows who cannot fill all three of their stomachs lately...well I've got some bad news. It could get a whole lot worse...

mangoboy — September 3, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 12:02 p.m

"when we hire outside of that criteria, as we did in 2008"

How was another rich Harvard educated lawyer "outside of that criteria"?

After Carter, all democrat presidential candidates been rich lawyers except Gore who flunked out of law school.

frobert — September 3, 2011 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...minus the millionaire aspect. Barack's personal wealth has soared in the last few years. I don't think he had wealthy status until he got his first book deal. Even then, not entrenched in the inner DC circle like the Bushes, Cheaney's and Gore's.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and fro, not a huge Al Gore fan here but...he is one of very few DC hacks to enlist for service in a time of war and was sent to vietnam. Also he quit law school to run for Congress when he found out his old man's seat was being vacated. Al's no dummy. Al's no coward. He may or may not be a few other things, but he served as Vice President honorably, in some very difficult times with the Clinton Admin.

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — September 3, 2011 at 12:46 p.m.

the year before he ran for president, Obama made in excess of 4 million dollars, from my perspective that qualifies as rich.

I didn't mean to sound like I was dumping on Gore, just pointing out that democrat presidential candidates are usually rich lawyers.

frobert — September 3, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I guess that makes the last two out of three Republican't Presidents rich oil Texans, huh?

hawkeye — September 3, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Off subject here, peoples...but I just had to put in a comment about the conditions outside. I'm glad I got done with my errands away from home this morning. My observation...the sun reflected a bright orange hue on the cement walkway by my house. Eerie!!! We've had a lot of fire calls, two trucks - one tender/one engine. It's quite hazy here and the sky has a dirty yellow/brown blanket. Let's hope the wind continues through the night around here. I'd sure hate to see that blanket of smoke settle in.

For anybody who has respiratory issues (my allergies had kicked up a couple of days ago, so that includes me too), stay indoors and if you have to venture out - cover your nose and mouth.

I'd rather have rain showers.

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

btw...that's one engine, one tender each call. I'm thinking people aren't realizing the smoke is coming from Mt. Hood so there's a lot of unfounded fire calls.

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 3:18 p.m.

I was working up at the Washougal motocross track today. We watched the smoke roll in all morning and by the time I left the sky was literally orange. Didn't think to take any pictures until I got into downtown Washougal but it's pretty bad there too. Hopefully the winds change soon and they get the fire under control.

Genevieve — September 3, 2011 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen posted a link to an NY Times article yesterday on the feds going after the banks that were bundling and trading subprime mortgages. This bears watching - it could turn out quite ugly.

Freddie and Fannie bought up tens of billions of these mortgage bundles, which were "misrepresented" as solid AAA loans. (How the mortgage bundling and rebundling took place is a long story, but it was legal.) Once the federal gov't took them over, we became responsible for the losses they sustained. The directors of Freddie and Fannie, along with the banks in question, were warned in '05/'06 that these mortgages were a risky investment. Most started unloading - Freddie, Fannie, AIG and a couple of others kept buying. Further, some investors began betting that the mortgages would default - they made big profits.

Some people had no business buying a home - they didn't have the down payment or income to support a home loan. But the feds insisted banks should make home loans, so the banks started giving one to just about anyone with a job. In the early/mid 2000s people started taking out low interest rate sliding scale ARMs and buying houses they intended to flip for a profit. This worked until mid '07 when the market went flat. soon after, the home values started plummeting. In turn, people began defaulting on their mortgages, and the mortgage bundles became virtually worthless.

I've got 3 points.

First is that this was all a gamble, played by the existing rules. Everyone was happy as long as we were making money. There were a few, like Warren Buffet, that tried to warn us. But the federal gov't, developers, real estate agents and banks all said everything was good. Well, we all lost, to include the banks. To single out just the banks as a scapegoat is wrong. This was pure greed on everyone's part.

Second, if we are to blame the banks for the current economic crisis due to the housing market crash, then we need to regulate Wall Street so tightly they need to ask permission to go to the bathroom. These bond traders have been playing games for years, creating new ways to make big profits. And when you take this kind of risk, you run a good chance of losing big. If we're now going to say taking this risk is bad, then get on the ball and stop allowing it. Don't take out silly lawsuits against the banks that were trying to make money.

Third, aren't these the same banks our gov't is pressuring to lend money to small business owners so they can create jobs? I'm confused - if we want to fine them for taking the mortgage loan risk, then how are they going to be able to make these RISKY business loans?

roger — September 3, 2011 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal you ride moto? Just curious. I've got relatives involved in moto...just raced on Thursday at PIR. Anyhow...that smoke is eerie to say the least. Hopefully nobody had any health issues at the Top Gun Event as a result of the smoke.

Regarding the smoke...your avatar says it all, Gen.

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — September 3, 2011 at 3:58 p.m.

We bailed out the banks so they could avoid the free market consequences for their actions, and now we sue them for those same actions?

I guess this means they won't be donating millions to the Obama campaign this time?

frobert — September 3, 2011 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I love motocross but I'm far to clumsy to ride, I'm scary on a four wheeler, let alone two! I just work the concessions.=)

Genevieve — September 3, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You wouldn't catch me riding them ...maybe a hunter's quad but not the racing quads or bikes. That's an art in itself. I'd rather leave it up to the daredevils, lol....

...and you don't "just" work the concessions. You work "AT" the concessions. Don't sell yourself short, girl. Think positive and keep that glass half full!!!

goldenoldie — September 3, 2011 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think (don't know) that the banks are having problems due to the government slowing down the foreclosure process. I'm sure they can usually unload a home for quite a bit less than the original mortgage and still break even. But having to sit on an inventory that isn't making money can't be good. And once they can sell, I'm betting they have to go for a fair market price - if they go too low, they affect the rest of the neighborhood values and piss off their banking brethren who risk losing their income.

You're right - it is a racket. And no Jesus around to toss them out of the temple either.

roger — September 3, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Too big to fail - remember?

Greenspan said, referring to the Continental bailout in '84, "if they're to big to fail, they're too big." He argued for breaking the megabanks up back in the '90s. Maybe that discussion will get resurrected.

This action has been sitting on hold for a year or two - I'm not sure why. Only a couple of the banks being sued actually handle homeowner mortgages, so I doubt it was to pressure them to renegotiate home loans.

roger — September 3, 2011 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There were only two instances in the last 4+ decades when the year over year growth in the median prices of the home was negative. After one such instance, from 1969 to 1970, the median house prices rose sharply in the 70s; and before another small decline in 1990 the prices rose in the mid 80s. The average growth rate for the median house prices for the last 41 years is 6.26%. (TheRealReturnblogspot)

So this is evidence that the average home buyers who were burned in the real estate market in the last few years were not speculators, fools, and irresponsible. They were making reasonable investment decisions, and had no way of anticipating widespread fraud by investment banker kingpins on Wall Street.

mangoboy — September 3, 2011 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I have a friend that financed thru Countrywide (now part of B of A) and he told me a few years ago, before the crash, that he could make any kind of payment he wanted to. It could be a minimum payment, a interest only payment, a full payment or he could skip a payment all together without penalty. I told him I thought that was a bit strange but whatever. Of course in the back of my mind I was thinking this has to be wrong, and it turned out I was right.

It all comes back to, "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

hawkeye — September 3, 2011 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tomorrow is Labor Day. But there will only be the usual Labor Day celebrations, not demonstrations of any magnitude. The Pres. is hyping his joint session of Congress speech as being all about jobs. But the buzz is he will not announce anything earth shaking. The Fed has run out of bullets, interest rates are at all time lows. Business continues to cite "uncertainty" as the reason to not invest and rehire more workers.

So we continue with the status quo, paying out hundreds of billions in welfare, unemployment, and subsidies, and not requiring work or constructive effort in exchange. And we continue to insist that there is no right to gainful employment under our ancient United States Constitution. What nonsense, "Right to Work" states. It means exactly the opposite, in practical terms.

mangoboy — September 4, 2011 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Check the following article from Business Insider. The boom of the late '90s and through 2007 was something way out of the ordinary. Shilling says our homes values will drop another 20% before they get back to where they should be.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Or, as hawkeye notes, there ain't no free lunch.

roger — September 4, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am in complete agreement - we were raped. But not the people who bought houses from late '05 on - I still maintain that common sense said something was wrong. (My own real estate agent called me and said he could get me $100K profit on my home and upgrade me to one of the 5 acre plots in Hockinson. Sorry, but no thanks.) Anyhow, the people who have been truly wronged are the ones who have been forced into 401Ks for retirement planning.

Our country subscribing to deregulation, trickle down economics, etc, is predicated on people doing "the right thing" with their profits. If "the right thing" is to make the rich richer, then they're doing a good job. But if its to grow our nation as a whole, then maybe we need to relook the capitalist model and determine if there's a better way to run this place.

But my initial point, probably not clearly stated, is that the economic collapse was largely due to the investment bankers who gambled in subprime mortgages. Most of these operations had nothing to do with making home loans. And the gambles they took were legal, although probably highly unethical. They KNEW the housing market was way overstocked, that home loan interest rates were due to jump, and that people would default. Rather than address this, they chose to make more money. These are the ones I'd throw in prison.

roger — September 4, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You have a couple good points, however when your hired usually the HR person goes over the bennies and they say , we also have a 401K program just sign here and put in X amouunt..What most don't know and don't understand is what they are investing into. Never invest more than 5% in any one company unless you own the company.. 401K's can be a great way to save for retirement if professionaly managed...I am not agonizing over mine because I actually have a plan which many people don't.. Many people think because the DOW went down 500pts its time to get out.. Well if they are that worried then there not getting the right information or they dont understand how the market works.

Roger, It was not only the investment bankers but also predatory mortgage companies in Kahoots with the banks too. It was all a racket for sure. I wonder if the president will roll out a much talked about plan for homeowners. The plan would be to redo evryones mortgage at 4% if your upside down , then with most having a reduced monthly mortgage the extra money would go to paying other bills or into purchasing other goods that would stimulate the economy.

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 9:25 a.m.

That might be great for those that own homes and are upside down, but what about everyone else? Lots of people rent, lots of people are good in their mortgage. What about them. Don't get me wrong, I think those that need help should get it, but in order to stimulate the economy, there is going to have to be something to help EVERYONE.

hawkeye — September 4, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If I heard it right it would be for ALL homeowners, not just upside down ones..It was late one nite last week on way home..And Allen yes .75% is still allot of money...With no growth in our economy you won't see much of a change to those CD rates either but there are better alternativeswith some security... Buy some bonds that are backed by the government or state, they have good track records...Have a great day folks , time to go fishing...Maybe catch some dinner and smoke a little salmon..

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

OK, I always wanted to know, what kind of rolling papers do you use for smoking salmon? Isn't it kind of hard to light? Just kidding.

Yes, percentage rates are really low, I took all my 401k money out of the market and put it into a guaranteed 3% return fund, at least until things turn around, at least I'm not losing anything.

hawkeye — September 4, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok have to admit, but I never inhaled... FYI My spicey Brown garlic smoke salmon is the best, so I've been's all in the brine and end process.. Love trying new recipies as this one a friend gave to me...Just got back from Fishermans.. Nice place to go, family owned...What about this discover pass for your vehicle..I'm ok with it but should be able to use on any vehicle you own, I use my economy gas vehicle most of the time but sometimes have more than 2-3 people to go fishing with...

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

stikoutking — September 4, 2011 at 12:16 p.m.

Never cared for Salmon. I do like catching them though. But my favorite is Halibut. I've been up to Canada catching both and I have to tell you, that's a kick in the pants. Especially halibut that are 300 feet deep.

I was thinking about one of those new Dodge Durangos but they only get 16mpg in town and 20 on the road and my truck gets better than that and it's a 2500 diesel. Maybe in two years after they get the 7 speed automatic and prove it for a year.

hawkeye — September 4, 2011 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mmmm...smoked salmon! Yummy!!!!

goldenoldie — September 4, 2011 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John Laird's column about roundabouts hit the problem on the head with local drivers in general. His words """These people simply cannot stand the thought of yielding … to anyone or anything.""" (You should've seen it on I-205 near Mill Plain today...sheesh, people don't know the concept of yielding at all!)

Well John Laird, you think you've mastered the roundabouts here in've got to try them in Australia!!! they're backwards from ours. Okay, okay...I'm teasing, but the roundies in Oz are without maintenance and operations costs with the obvious missing link...traffic lights. Granted, the roundie at 137th and 49th Street needs manicuring occasionally, but these are a very effective traffic control device which should be implemented in more areas than what we have today in Clark County...and everyone, in due time...will find the roundies much better than traffic control signals which have the constant issues of computer failure and power outages.

I haven't made it up to the Salmon Creek roundabout yet and I probably won't either since there's not much that attracts me to that area. I admit, it bothers me when I approach the roundabouts...but it's not because of how I drive through's the inexperience of other drivers. Maybe adding training to traffic safety education classes would be a start.

Patience always helps.

goldenoldie — September 4, 2011 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

To the next generation looking to get started in a career, find a job, or start a business, it is decision time. When starting and running a business, government is not your friend, (Prime local example, Chucks Produce) unless you can get grant money or actually work for the government. Another strategy, which at one point in my life was my approach, was to pull up stakes and go where the jobs were. It is still an option for some.
"The Federal government is a growth industry, making Washington, D.C., one of the best places to look for work, with an equal number of open jobs and job seekers. Runners-up include the San Francisco Bay area, West Palm Beach, Oklahoma City, and Boston, all of which have just two job hunters for every opening..." (Wall Street Journal)
I am sympathetic to any struggling American citizen who is considering the underground economy and the black market. The Wall Street parasites and financial scammers are guilty of Treason and should face some kind of justice, whether in this life or the next...

mangoboy — September 4, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — September 4, 2011 at 4:58 p.m.

Never did understand why people think roundabouts were so hard. If someone is coming, you don't go. If it's clear, you go. No big deal, right?

And yielding on the freeway on ramps, if you are entering the freeway, the cars already on the freeway have the right of way. Of course, my experience as a truck driver dictates that if you are in the right lane of a freeway and you are approaching an on ramp with cars entering, if you have a clear lane next to you, it's only polite to move over and let the traffic on the freeway. However, it is the responsibility of the driver entering the freeway to merge properly.

hawkeye — September 4, 2011 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal's also the politeness which is lacking on the roadways these days. Any time I approach an on ramp while on the highway, I keep a keen eye on the traffic merging onto the highway. If it looks like the person is going to be next to me, my speed is adjusted accordingly whether that means slowing down or speeding up temporarily. If there's no traffic in the lane next to me, I show the common courtesy to those approaching the highway and move to the next lane. If I can't, well I'm certainly not going to race the guy to juggle for position.

What I witnessed yesterday??? A Ford F350 crew cab 4x4 with canopy was in the far right lane NB which merges under Mill Plain. He'd been coming from Oregon on the GJ Bridge...didn't judge traffic all too well. He didn't bother to lower his speed to accommodate the heavy traffic. Instead, he tried to race around traffic so he could squeeze in between a small station wagon and an SUV. Oh...he squeezed in alright...with about 2 inches to spare both front and back as the cars were pacing too close to each other to begin with. The SUV??? They hit the brakes hard which almost caused a rear ender on his back side. I kind of sided with the SUV driver as the truck seemed to come from nowhere and didn't give them time to react properly.

And that truck??? Once he could, he switched lanes AT AN ANGLE mind you, to the far left lane...the only open lane. Well, by the time we got to our exit on Padden, that truck driver was long gone. In the meantime, we watched as he almost hit two other vehicles with his lane changes without utilizing a signal of any kind or in doing lane changes with a safe distance between him and the other vehicles. He was obviously a hot-headed idiot who thought his big rig and his driving skills made him invincible.

Besides his reckless driving skills, one other issue peeved me. You know what that was????

Our cell phone was dead and the charger was sitting on our dining table. I wanted to report the guy. Had his plate and everything. It was his lucky day.

goldenoldie — September 5, 2011 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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