Open Forum, July 18-24

Published:

 

Five most read stories on Columbian.com, July 10-17:

No. 1) Woman arrested; she allegedly tried to sell a newborn boy for $500

No. 2) Vancouver woman nabbed by Oregon police

No. 3) Portland police think they've found Yashanee Vaughn's body

No. 4) UPDATE: Marijuana grow found in pair of homes

No. 5) Ruby Tuesday restaurant closes its doors

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Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor Libby Tucker, libby.tucker@columbian.com, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski, matt.wastradowski@columbian.com.


393 comments

Comments

Hey Everybody! We're hearing a lot of negative stuff lately in the news around the world and things might...yes MIGHT get worse rather than better, but be thankful that we are here on this wonderful Earth...living. When you're feeling down...think of something that just outright makes you laugh. Try to keep a positive tone even when the chips are down. Things will get better as time goes on.

Keep Smiling. It's better for your health and for those around you.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Golden, great words to start the week.

Hopefully the worst is over and calm minds can prevail in taking our government and country on the proper track in moving us ahead in the correct direction.

hawkeye — July 18, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat: Not trying to rile you up here, but be wary of taking the law into your own hands, my friend. Vigilante justice? Not good.

A guy sitting in his car on a public street taking notes could be absolutely harmless and have nothing to do with you or your property. If you have evidence to the contrary, then take it to law enforcement.

Personally, I want nothing to do with your man hunt. It is over-the-top and creepy.

manthou — July 18, 2011 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cain: Americans should be able to ban mosques

Herman Cain says voters across the country should have the right to prevent Muslims from building mosques in their communities.

In an exchange on "Fox News Sunday," the Republican presidential contender said that he sided with some in a town near Nashville who were trying to prevent Muslims from worshiping in their community.

"Our Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state," he said. "Islam combines church and state. They're using the church part of our First Amendment to infuse their morals in that community, and the people of that community do not like it. They disagree with it."

Asked by host Chris Wallace if any community could ban a mosque if it wanted to, Cain said: "They have a right to do that."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0711/Cain_Americans_should_have_right_to_ban_mosques.html

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


MASTERING THE MACHINE

How Ray Dalio built the world’s richest and strangest hedge fund.
by John Cassidy


Dalio is rich—preposterously rich. Last year alone, he earned between two and three billion dollars, and reached No. 55 on the Forbes 400 list. But what distinguishes him more from other hedge-fund managers is the depth of his economic analysis and the pretensions of his intellectual ambition.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/25/110725fa_fact_cassidy

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 10:57 a.m.

I have no tolerance for those that feel the government can ignore the bill of rights, but it is even worse when they claim to be conservative.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 18, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

Blaming DADT on the right, wasn't that Sam Nunn and Barney Franks brainchild?

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:13 a.m.

I like the wiki's description: "..American businessman, politician, columnist, and radio host from Georgia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_C...

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.

Honest question or just bloviating?

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.

Too many of today's "conservatives" have chosen to ignore their founding principle of less governmental control and intervention. This is why I am no longer a member of the republican party.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 18, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

I think the term, to be cute and not really address the depth of the issue, is irony-impaired.....

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:37 a.m

As I recall (going on memory so I could be wrong) republican Bill Cohen was pushing for full incorporation of gays in the military, democrat Sam Nunn was pushing for complete exclusion and democrat Barney Frank came up with DADT as a compromise.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:42 a.m.
&
Allen — July 18, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

In a nutshell:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_c...

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, please don't continue posting that information here. We don't allow unfounded accusations here on the board. If you have information that someone is targeting forum members, PLEASE let us know and let the authorities know. But until you have something dfeinitive, please don't post the speculation here.

Matt

Matt Wastradowski — July 18, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.

Well, you are missing that it was a Clinton campaign promise to end the ban.

And all the rest of the people involved in the DADT policy that became the compromise.

And I wonder how long people complained about women getting the vote.....

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:57 a.m

I usually avoid wikipedia, but I have to thank you for that link.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, if you want to e-mail me with any information, you can do so by e-mailing matt.wastradowski@columbian.com.

Matt Wastradowski — July 18, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:19 a.m

In 1993 Bill Clinton passed the law DADT.

Wasn't DADT decided on by the President, Joint Chiefs, and the Defense Secretary?

There is no where in the Constitution that requires soldiers to be straight. The only task military personnel have is to uphold the constitution and be physically qualified to perform the task at hand, which includes shooting straight.

Barry Goldwater said..

“You don’t have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight.”

ELISI — July 18, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 11:59 a.m.

I didn't mean to leave out the Clinton promise and I applaud him for it, have to give credit where credit is due. My main point was that DADT was in no way a republican plot. It was Barry Goldwater that said "you don't have to be straight to be in the military, just shoot straight"

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, I've asked you to stop posting it because it's unfounded speculation.

You have no tangible proof that this person is targeting forum members. Someone with Oregon plates -- there are a lot of those folks in Clark County -- sat outside your property and wrote something down for a few minutes. Yes, that's a little unsettling. But if you are concerned, notify the authorities. You can't immediately come back here and write that someone might be targeting posters.

And if you feel someone is targeting someone on these forums, please let Libby and I know. If you have information to that effect, let us know. We'll do everything we can to look into it and see if there's anything there.

It's unfounded speculation, and that is against our [community guidelines][1].

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/guidelines/

Matt Wastradowski — July 18, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Alleycat, you could always try what I have done in the past. First of all, you did the right thing by getting the plate...even both numbers. Second step is simple. You pick up that little battery-operated thingy with numbers and a screen on it and punch in 9 - 1 - 1!!! You tell the nice person on the phone that someone has been parked in front of your home and has been for quite some time. You let that nice person on the phone know the description of the car, the plate the face and any noticeable features like you did us. Then it's on record who was near your home should anything happen. You can also let the person SEE you calling on the phone, making a big to do that you were making the phone call. Nine times out of ten, they scurry away like flies avoiding a fly swatter....and if they're still there with no good intentions...they will get nervous when they see the patrol car.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also Alleycat, you said he was parked in the street...not on your property. You also said the guy was lucky he didn't step onto your property. Did he after your writes??? Just curious. Maybe he had a call to do some bid on work at a home and was given the wrong address...and yes, they do make calls on weekends.

Just sayin'.

A couple of weeks ago, we had a vehicle parked near our home...and they sat there for at least an hour. Turns out, they were waiting for the neighbor guy to come home but didn't want to block anybody's mailboxes. Case solved. Another time, a suspicious person was loitering in front of another neighbor's house. I couldn't get a good description s it was at 2:30 in the morning. I was on the phone with 911, trying to get the description description and right when I was on the phone to the dispatcher, he ran with what looked like a crowbar, right up to this work van parked in the street, smashed the window and stole a GPS unit from it...and they could hear the glass break over the phone. Cops were in the area already due to my diligence in keeping a watch in the neighborhood.

You see Alleycat, it's not the ones you can see sitting plain as day that you have to worry about. It's the ones lurking around that by your instincts, you know they don't belong in the neighborhood...and you CALL 911!!! You protect yourself inside your home but let the cops do their job as well.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay...my CTS is flaring up again. Sorry about the typos. That's "I couldn't get a good description as it was at 2:30 in the morning. AND "...trying to get the description and right when I was..."

I bloobered.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I doubt Ed Scrivner would lower himself with a visit over here on the Group W Bench, but just encase:

Allow me to "learn ya" a few things, Ed. Just 'cuz I believe education is key when one is forming an opinion about cannabis.

First off, in order to qualify for a cannabis recommendation TWO criteria must be met. 1. The malady must be one listed by the DOH. 2. Standard procedures and practices must have proven inadequate in the treatment of that malady. Then, and only then, should a health professional consider cannabis.

Oh, I'll admit that some folk don't take a hard look at the second requirement. There -are- folks out there that abuse or ignore it. As with most anything (perscription drugs and taxes included) people are going to cheat.

As far as "intractable pain" goes, yup, that's one ailment the cheaters like to take advantage of. Hows about the folks that -aren't- cheating? Hows about the guy that's had three back surgeries, has issues with spasm and cramping due to distressed nerve roots AND has an intolerance to opiate pain relievers, steroids, etc., but finds relief with the administration of cannabis?

Since I began a regimen of administering a small dose of ingested cannabis nightly, and smoking less than one cannabis cigarette a day, my incidence of nocturnal spasms have decreased over 50%. My daily Vicodin requirement has actually diminished!

I would suggest you take your favorite search engine and point it at, "cannabis opiates synergy." The anecdotal evidence has been noted since 1840. Clinical research is proving out what my experience has been. Go ahead, Ed, take a look. Don't be scared.

As far as "Dox in'a Box" go:

These businesses are a result of federal policy, plain and simple. A U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals just yesterday ruled that a doctor couldn't have their license pulled for discussing cannabis as a palliative (and even preventive!)treatment. Yesterday, Ed. Do you think doctors are going to start seriously considering cannabis? Most need educating, as do many of the laypeople. People like you.

And what does a person do when their health care provider is the Veterans Administration? You want to watch a VA health professional wiggle like spit on a hot stove? Say the word "cannabis" in an exam room.

I would like to see the Dox in'a Box go away. I'm not to keen on some cat hammering advertising signs into the ground around town. However, until such time as both health professionals and the day to day voters educate themselves, there will be some entrepreneur out there willing to fill the market.

Oh, and one last thing, I don't appreciate the off-handed way you would sentence me (and my ilk) to a life of agony and torture. Nope. Not one bit.

http://capndrift.wordpress.com/

Drift — July 18, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. and some other times today,

Because these discussions seem to go on interminably (and with no closure like last week's states' rights thread), I'd like to point out that Allen listed several 'social conservatism ' issues that the (predominantly) R's have picked up on.

Of course, there is ample documentation that the R's use the underinformed, willfully misinformed, manipulated 'social conservatives' as vote getters; and then they vote against their own best interests..... (sorta like the Confederate privates helping all the slave holders under a guise of a panoply of arguments that belied the fact that that Con. private didn't have enough land to warrant having a slave for....)

And that frobert has made a conscious choice to argue only about whether DADT was a R or a D issue.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What

Drift — July 18, 2011 at 12:51 p.m.

is talking about.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/17/medical-marijuana-signs-sprout-up/#comments

Your messages is far more important than my little screed here in the basement and shouldn't cause your post to be covered up.

Would be worth logging onto FB to get that posted in that article's comments, btw. Well worth it.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yo, Cat...., man!
What prevented you from walking out to the car and inquiring about the individual's intentions? If you respond, 'a fear of physical violence' then I pitty your existence. I couldn't live that way. I won't live that way.

I've gone and inquired. I've helped a few folks out (lost, whatever) and made it quite apparent to those with nefarious intentions that it might be better they get a long. We didn't use to be afraid of one another. I've heard stories telling me so.

The morning one of my LTTE was published I got a phone call from a gentleman. He called to advise me he didn't agree with my opinion. He got my number from the phone book. I knew he would also have my address so I invited him over for a discussion on the subject. He declined.

Don't live in fear, man. It will eat you from the inside out.

Speaking of out... where's that darned Sun!

Drift — July 18, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


(responding to a post by Alleycat in the past several minutes which I believe might have been removed)

Well Alleycat, you are right. He hasn't broken any laws and since you're in Oregon instead of Washington, the rules pertaining to contacting 911 about suspicious vehicles could be different from here. Alley, you said it yourself that you don't want anything to happen and that nothing has happened. Sir...you CAN'T go around posting license plates on people you are ASSUMING is stalking you. We pay taxes for our fine folks in uniform to do the job for us and I would expect them to do what they are paid for. You are putting yourself at an unnecessary risk for liability, sir. In your mind, you have tried and convicted the man in the car without knowing the facts. You'd best be careful in my opinion...but again, like you said...I'm a woman and you're a man and you are thinking differently from me.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 12:55 p.m.

I have made my position quite clear on issues such as DOMA, Religion in government and anything else that curtails the rights outlined in the constitution. My statements on DADT are intended to counter left propaganda. Although you seem too educated for that, many of the posters on here would have democrats take credit for all republican achievements and have republicans take responsibility for all democrat failures.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, I had asked Alley the same question before.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


wait, not DADT is one of the "republican achievements"?

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Would be worth logging onto FB to get that posted in that article's comments, btw. Well worth it."

Thank you, Mr. Seal.
I can't bring myself to FB though... just can't. Won't.

I suppose The C would get twitchy if someone copied and pasted? I mean, it would be like circumventing the system!

(the smiley goes here)

Drift — July 18, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Alleycat...a little womanly advice here for you from me. Maybe it's a good time to take an afternoon off from the internet...maybe take a sail on the Columbia or a ride somewhere. Sometimes a little outing helps in a big way.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 1:23 p.m.

So you support misinformation as long as it is disseminated by the left?

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO,
Alley has either already left the building/basement or he has been once again blocked. We can't post other people's plate numbers etc here, especially if based on nothing but suspicion.
As a female, I also agree with you, we think differently -we tend to **think** **first**. We are not into shooting first. That's for sure. I prefer it that way. A brain is a good thing to have. For men also.
And the good men here in basement: I am not saying you do not have a brain. Before I get attacked - lol.

luvithere — July 18, 2011 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh cat, you really make me laugh, LOL LOL LOL.....

For months all we have been hearing from you is that you are this BIG BAD BIKER DUDE, and now someone you don't know parked in front of your house and wrote something down. Is that all it takes to scare a big biker dude? Big deal! Did he take pictures of your house or make any gestures at you or ANYTHING remotely related to your house or you? Man, you are a little paranoid, if you ask me. There are just too many scenarios to mention.

hawkeye — July 18, 2011 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 1:34 p.m

????????????????????????

I'll admit my syntax was garbled; are you claiming DADT was a "republican achievement" that "democrats take credit for"

Or was it one that the Democrats made the "..republicans take responsibility for..."?

(and we're still waiting for supporting evidence of your claims from last week (and a few from previous weeks ) )

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:10 p.m.

Your refusal to accept any opinions other than your own as valid, proves your obstinateness, it does not invalidate another's opinion.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You are blaming "refusal to accept any opinions" on your inability to bring evidence to support your claims.

Are you claiming DADT was a "republican achievement" that "democrats take credit for"

Or was it one that the Democrats made the "..republicans take responsibility for..."?

(and we're still waiting for supporting evidence of your claims from last week (and a few from previous weeks ) )

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Amazing Dissolving Nation

By James Howard Kunstler

Europe is arguably worse off money-wise, more broke, flimsier, crapped out, crippled, and paralyzed. Sad, because in outward appearance Europe is - how shall I put this? - better turned out than America. Europe is a fit, silver-haired gentleman in a sleek Italian suit and a pair of Michael Toschi swing lace wingtips, holding a serious-looking Chiarugi leather briefcase. America is pear-shaped blob of semi-formed male flesh, in ankle-length cargo shorts, a black T-shirt featuring skull motifs, tattoos randomly assigned (as if by lottery) to visible flesh, a Sluggo buzz-cut, and a low-rider sports cap designed to make your head look flat. In other words, he lacks a certain savoir-faire compared to his European cousin. But both are broke. Neither has any idea what he will do next - though, for the American, it will probably involve the ingestion of melted cheese or drugs (or both). When the European collapses, a certain air of delicacy will attend his demise; the expired American will go up in flames in a trailer and they'll have to sort out his remains from the melted goop of his dwelling-place with a front-end loader.
This is the way the world ends for the OECD, the nations that affected to be developed and civilized. This phase of globalism is certainly not the end of history, but it is looking like the end of accounting tricks, and possibly democracy, which has discredited itself with accounting tricks. At a certain point in time, the sickening recognition sets in that appearances are not the same as reality - and then, all of a sudden, you're in a political maelstrom. Citizens of the various lands will discover that the money being argued over, shifted around from column A to column B, assigned to this or that actuarial table or budget line or account or obligation or vault or "structured vehicle"- that money is just... not... there. There's no money. It was pretend money. From now on, none of you will get paid. Imagine a world where nobody gets paid.

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/07/the-amazing-dissolving-nation.html

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


McConnell, Reid tweaking debt limit fallback plan to boost its chances
By Ted Barrett, CNN Congressional Producer

McConnell, R-Kentucky, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, are now considering adding to the measure in order to boost its chances of passing the GOP-controlled House and Democratic-led Senate.
As described by McConnell at a news conference last week, his legislation would authorize the president to request of Congress debt ceiling increases in three increments between now and the end of next year. The first would boost the debt limit by $700 billion and the next two by $900 billion each.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/18/debt.limit.fallback.plan/

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow. Just...wow.

PadmaRani — July 18, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seriously, cat.

One question.

If you are only posting in the basement here, how does anybody know who you are and where you live?

hawkeye — July 18, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.

Are you refuting the fact that republican Bill Cohen was pushing for full incorporation of gays in the military? Are you refuting that democrat Sam Nunn was insistent on complete exclusion of gays? Are you refuting that democrat Barney Frank came up with the compromise? You haven't produced any evidence to counter any of these facts. Maybe I misjudged you, your argument doesn't refute the facts it is just a feeble attempt to confound the issue for the lesser informed posters.

I ask again do you have any evidence to refute my facts.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oooh, Hawkeye...that is a question I think nobody really wants to know the answer. You'd be surprised at how people are finding information these days. For now (and I emphasize that rather timidly), I'm pretty sure the C is pretty safe, but you just never know. I guess it all depends on how good your internet security is also. Also...who knows what Big Brother is capable of as well.

I think Alley was a bit nervous because of heated discussion in recent days. I could almost picture two Rams head butting each other.

The number one message Alley relayed to everyone is to keep on your toes and be aware of your surroundings...to not let your guard down for a second and I agree. It's getting weird out there lately...really weird!

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!!!

nailingit — July 18, 2011 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.

(and by the way, ever going to bring evidence that proves your point that NASA should have an amendment to continue and that national tire standards are an overreaching of federal powers?)

No, your facts, as selective and incomplete as they are, are accurate.

However, they are not proof of your contentions (I think I have these right):

That Democrats take credit for Republican achievements

That Democrats make sure Republicans are accounted as the originators of projects that were 'failures'

That DADT has something to do with that

That DADT is the cross-bearer for all that Allen brought up earlier.

That since I ask for proof of your claims, I am something or another

Go back to Allan's post (Allen — July 18, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.), He brought up DADT and DOMA as examples of how 'wingnuts' mix religion and politics. That is why I pointed out 'social conservatism'. Which is part of why we have Dems denouncing gays in the military, etc.

Trying to assign blame or credit for DADT on either party requires being very selective in your proof.

Like forgetting it was a Clinton (D, as I recall) campaign promise and then making sure to point out another D was against it.

Which is the same problem with your states rights argument.

Now, should DADT have become the new policy? No, absolutely not; it was, just as the banning of gays, a violation of human rights. However, given the political and cultural climate at the time, it was a fairly significant move and it did go to show that there was, other than the blatant discrimination, no detriment to military readiness or any other claim those against it claimed.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a day in the basement! Alley have you been "nervous because of heated discussion in recent days"? (go @ 3:18) LOL! luvithere...I thought thinking skills were non-gender specific. LOL! Tell Bachman and Palin!LOL! alley...relax...some poster suggested yesterday the car might be there due to your basement postings or stolen identity LOL!.....highly unlikely dude. Like I said, could be real estate..someone that needed to pull over...etc. Next time ask the person. It will save you all this grief.

nailingit — July 18, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 3:55 p.m.

That Democrats take credit for Republican achievements

How many people in the past including you have insisted that the democrats and republicans had switched places and therefore the democrats are responsible for the 13th 14th and 15th amendments, and republicans were responsible for the kkk and segregation. I believe you used Howard Dean as your source for that argument, I still chuckle when I remember that one.

DADT is often used as an example of a "republican" incarnation.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

If you are that concerned about the car and its occupant, then by all mean, take the info and file a police report.
Best thing you can do.

I have had to do that a few times, no biggie.
But if I freaked out every time I see a car parked across from my house, and a person in it writing, stuff down, making phone calls, or just sitting there looking around..I'd be on my phone several times a day. I just watch and keep check of the time they spend in that spot, the make and model of car, license and a description of the driver just in case.

The person outside of your home just may have been someone on break from work, lost looking for the right address, salesmen for some company getting ready to pitch a sale in your area (siding, windows, gutters) or many other simple explanations why.

ELISI — July 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m

1st para; I'd suggest any reasonable history book for some basics. You should start with a HS Am Hist text, I'm thinking. (I hope this doesn't cue up some ''that's proof of how the liberals have indoctrinated Americans' screed.)

And while wiki isn't the be-all and end-all, their sources tend to be pretty well vetted; you could certainly do worse than read from their citation list. (and a small addition, if you feel there is an inaccuracy in an article you are certainly welcome to discuss it on the discussion page with each article or even plow ahead and make some changes. One can do worse than to bring a source to the discussion page and ask about its inclusion.)

I guess I should mention that Zinn's _History of the People of the United States_ devotes a fair amount of space and list of resources to the topic. Or you could go to Newsbusters or Freep and join in the conversations there where the topic is brought up.

Con't. in the 1st para; Howard Dean?

I think this is yet another example of you making claims that you can't bring support to.

2nd para;

I think this is yet yet another example of you making claims that you can't bring support to. In fact, didn't you claim above it was from two D's?

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 4:37 p.m.

Referencing unnamed history books? Now you are just proving your lack of knowledge on the subject, not to mention wasting my time. Now I could give you links to the party platform when founded and now,outlining the basics of the party. but you would only deny it because you know I am right.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


PadmaRani@ 2:52 PM: Let me add one big Huh? to your Wow.

I feel like I fell down the perseverative rabbit hole here today. :(

manthou — July 18, 2011 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm giving you your choice of materials to read. Other than implying you need something pretty basic to start with.

Again, you are making the claims (rather unclear ones, btw). So it is your job.....

I'd suggest the lack of clarity might be due to a lack of basic understanding.

" Now I could give you links "

And that is a common claim of yours, yet you rarely follow up. And when you do, it usually isn't something that actually supports your claim. I'd posit you get most of your talking points from some blogs and forums..Perhaps those are what you should link to rather than give credit to yourself for the research.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Which might be a reason why you can't come up with a coherent argument or proof for your claim that NASA needs an amendment to continue functioning or why we shouldn't have national tire standards.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Which might be a reason why you can't come up with a coherent argument or proof for your claim that NASA needs an amendment to continue functioning or why we shouldn't have national tire standards.

mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...a winding tunnel that brings one back to the winding tunnel which continues to wind and...

Hey...what's up Doc?

nailingit — July 18, 2011 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, Manthou and PadmaRani...I'm beginning to wonder if we're watching a bad remake of the Twilight Zone.

..

Hey Matt...any way you can generate a forum for the Basil and Frobert show???

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 18, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.

If you read the republican platform of 1860

Support individual liberty
Support states rights
Condemn "reckless extravagance" in government
Reduce revenue to "encourage the development of the industrial interests "
Condemn slavery
Improve interstate commerce infrastructure(railroads and harbors).
I left out the portions concerning Territories and admission of States.

Now if you and Mr. Zinn claim a complete reversal of the parties, you have to prove the republicans no longer hold any of these positions.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


..alleycat tunnel or not take care of yourself and family. If something like this happens again just approach with caution and inquire. It will save you from headache. Be cautious and don't fall in the tunnel man. Some don't find their way back.

nailingit — July 18, 2011 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey frobert? could you see your way to getting a room for your discussion with basil?
Maybe even think about meeting over a cup of earl grey tea and scones?
Might calm both your nerves. Since it seems both of you are as jumpy as a couple rabbits at mating time. :]

ELISI — July 18, 2011 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 18, 2011 at 6:18 p.m

The difference is, I can laugh at that.

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert, better to laugh and have fun than be a sour puss. :]

ELISI — July 18, 2011 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 2:42 'The Amazing Dissolving Nation'...thanks for the excellent write and link. Great truth with the cultures! Accountability the silver lining to embrace the simplicity of John Lennon's 'Imagine".

Imagine a world where "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was intrinsic to the core. The prospect of having a gigantic Velveeta ball would be minimized!

nailingit — July 18, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


New thread over at the CRC Forum:

Internal audit ordered for the CRC:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

Care to join me?

manthou — July 18, 2011 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 18, 2011 at 7:58 p.m

Do you have anything to add to the conversation, or you just making your daily "I am unhinged " post?

frobert — July 18, 2011 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


David Madore and his bottomless pit of disposable cash got the ball rolling on this audit.

It is one thing to be a genius. But a genius with money. The possibilities are endless.....

manthou — July 18, 2011 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley, I think he is in Florida on Vacation, given that's what he was talking about in last week's Press Talk. If he is...well good for him! We can all take a break from the everyday rat race once in awhile. BTW, I couldn't help but smile at your comment regarding his transition to FB.

goldenoldie — July 18, 2011 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Headline on the FB side

"One killed, five injured in collision with cement truck
It veered into oncoming traffic after blowout on Highway 14 in Camas"

Sorry for the death but looking at the picture it was a ***CONCRETE TRUCK*** not a "cement truck".

hawkeye — July 18, 2011 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Allen. Alleycat had touched on the very subject matter, giving the readers something to ponder. I don't think we'll ever know the REAL cause of death, given what it is they had given to the authorities. One of those great set ups for conspiracy theories, huh!!!

..

Hawkeye, that was definitely a nightmare for the folks involved. You know...every time we take that highway, I get a terrible feeling just as we approach that bridge. Although the accident wasn't on the bridge...was east of it...that's still a terrible stretch to have to deal with. I can't fathom the reasoning behind the widening project BEFORE a bridge replacement/widening project. Guess I'll be avoiding that stretch for a long, long time.

..

My condolences pour out to the family and friends of the young lady who lost her life in this accident - truly tragic for sure. For those who believe in the Holy Spirit as I do...God had other plans for her.

And those who have serious injuries...I wish a speedy recovery for them mentally as well as physically...including the cement truck driver. I know everyone will be saying to themselves..."I should have never taken that road" or "I shoulda stayed home," but the fact is...things happen. It took me awhile to realize that after my own life-altering accident as well. Time heals.

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


""Now (it) is very clear that it is just a propaganda machine for sale to the most power and money in detriment of the peasants."""

Pretty much what I've been saying all along, alley. And we ALL know who controls the media, right???

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"IMO, time to clean house, and start holding the corporate owned media to a higher standard."

Are you suggesting that Government or customers hold them to a higher standard?

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


(Reuters) - WikiLeaks and the Icelandic IT company DataCell filed a formal complaint to the European Commission on Thursday, saying payment companies Visa Europe and MasterCard Inc violated EU antitrust laws by blocking donations.

Visa Europe, which runs the largest card network in the European Union, and MasterCard blocked WikiLeaks from using its network to collect funds from donors in December 2010.

The complaint, filed to the Directorate-General for Competition of the European Commission, says Visa and MasterCard breached antitrust provisions set out by Articles 101 and 102 of the EU Treaty.

DataCell, which has an agreement to collect credit card donations on behalf of WikiLeaks, says the credit card giants engaged in anti-competitive behavior and abused their dominant market position.

WikiLeaks, led by Australian Julian Assange, urged the EU Commission to order both credit card companies to lift their ban with "immediate effect."

Visa and MasterCard stopped processing donations for WikiLeaks after the United States criticized the organization's release of sensitive diplomatic cables.

mangoboy — July 19, 2011 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 19, 2011 at 7:39 a.m.

This is a criminal case in the U.K., they no longer control the U.S. At this point here, this is just a which hunt, no more than an attempt to silence voices disagreeing with the administration. Now after a thorough and unbiased investigation, there might be cause to hold them accountable. When dealing with the first amendment the government has to be very careful.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 18, 2011 at 5:46 p.m.

*Now if you and Mr. Zinn claim a complete reversal of the parties, you have to prove the republicans no longer hold any of these positions.*

Actually, a good resource would be your own quote

*How many people in the past including you have insisted that the democrats and republicans had switched places and therefore the democrats are responsible for the 13th 14th and 15th amendments, and republicans were responsible for the kkk and segregation. I believe you used Howard Dean as your source for that argument, I still chuckle when I remember that one.
DADT is often used as an example of a "republican" incarnation.
frobert — July 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m.* http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/18/open-forum-july-18-24/#c192089

You started making a claim that someone else made a claim.

Without any evidence.

- - -

Any chance you'll ever show us proof that the Constitution requires that NASA needs an amendment to continue functioning?

Any chance you'll ever show us proof that tire safety standards are a states' rights?

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 8:44 a.m.

Any chance you will concede your error, in indicating I am deficient in basic history because I refuse to accept propaganda as fact.

"1st para; I'd suggest any reasonable history book for some basics. You should start with a HS Am Hist text, I'm thinking. (I hope this doesn't cue up some ''that's proof of how the liberals have indoctrinated Americans' screed.)"

Does the constitution mention exploration as a federal authority? does the tenth amendment exclude from federal authority anything not outlined in the constitution?- Point proven.

Federal tire standards do not apply to tires manufactured and used within a state.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Come on Basil, you are insisting on a complete reversal of the parties, defend your position.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

In response to your posts last night -

Interesting to me is that a couple of weeks back Ms. Boyd had no problems with the CRC finances.

This turn has nothing to do with David Madore - he's been getting ignored for a long time.

What happened is that The Oregonian has finally woken up and started looking at the financing. A few good articles in the past few weeks, discussing the CRC, the Lake Oz rail, and the lack of ridership on some of the Max routes. Then, to top it off, last week they had an editorial page cartoon that was great. There was a CRC spokesman at a podium, with an unfinished bridge in the background. Several large sacks of money were in the water, the first labelled $120 billion. The spokesman was saying something like "We prefer to think of them as pilings."

While I find it great that someone in Oregon is waking up to the problems with the project, I'm not exactly happy with the fact that this crowd has been talking about the same things for a loooong time and has been completely ignored.

Now, a nice little challenge for The Columbian. Are you going to follow what The Oregonian has started and begin giving the CRC a serious investigation? Or are you going to remain silent, thus pretty much substantiating claims that you're more interested in a social/political agenda than in presenting complete information to the people of Clark County?

roger — July 19, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley...it sounds like someone got a pie in the face...at least the ala mode part of the pie. Poo' Rupert. He's so victimized.

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.

Show us where I made such a claim.

I have shown where you've made a claim that you've - again, yet again - made a conscious choice to not support ..

*Any chance you will concede your error, in indicating I am deficient in basic history because I refuse to accept propaganda as fact.*

I'm not sure how you define 'propaganda' and 'fact' since you don't really bring anything to the table to support your claims. IF you were to do that, then we could talk about the quality of your resources, the quality of your research,...

*Point proven.*

Your point would be 'proven' if you could show some actual cases that support your point. 2+ centuries of jurisprudence; 2+ centuries of law making.

Sorta like your tire claim. Sorta like your NASA claim.

The reason you keep espousing fringe thinking isn't because you are the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong; that's timecube guy thinking.

Please, go read. Read both sides. Read the works cited. Read the critical analysis.

But, yes, again, I'd suggest you start with a high school American History textbook. Read the works cited.

But, yes, again, I'd suggest you start with a high school American History textbook.

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 9:35 a.m

You keep trying to bring this back to last weeks thread, yesterday you insisted that a the parties had switched positions, I offered compelling evidence that your position was false. You shouldn't take a position you are unable to defend. Take you own advice, both sides, stop defending the propaganda.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Betcha Bob L. would blow a gasket on this one:

Why I refuse to tolerate Gays
By Karen Spears Zacharias,

http://www.patheos.com/community/karenspearszacharias/2011/06/13/why-i-refuse-to-tolerate-gays/

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:43 a.m.

I pointed out where you claimed that that was a claim (frobert — July 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ).

I pointed out you should read some history before making that claim.

What you haven't - again, yet again - brought to the table is any evidence. Which in this case could be either proof that there wasn't a platform shift over some undefined period of time or "How many people in the past including you have insisted .."

And, if you'll please explain why your claim is even a point that you think supports any of the various claims you've made, we'd all be that bit more enlightened.

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LADIES AND GENTS!!! STEP THIS WAY!!!

FOR THE PRICE OF YOUR SANITY, YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED TO THE ONE, THE ONLY..........................................................................................................

***THE BASIL AND FROBERT SHOW!!!!***

Guys...get my message yet? Neither of you will bother to solve this...just the continuation of the same argument, reflecting on the same old, same old. Why don't you take it to your walls and send private messages to each other instead. I don't know about everyone here on the C...but it's really getting rather redundant, you know. I don't know about everyone here on the C...but it's really getting rather redundant, you know. I don't know about.....

Well anyhow...it's no hard feelings to you. I just felt compelled to say something, my fellow writers.

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 9:53 a.m.

at 4:37 yesterday you indicated that I was uninformed because I insisted that no switching of parties occurred, I presented you with clear and compelling evidence as to my claim. Rather than support your position or concede error, you are trying to change the subject. The simple question is, can you defend your claim?

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie...redundancy is in the eyes of the beholder. Basil gives some really good info and links. You have an ignore button...use it.

nailingit — July 19, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Nailingit, I don't like to use the "ignore user" feature, especially because of the fact that most of the time, Basil has great links they provide. It's the fact that they keep repeating their argument with each other over and over and over again. Should I click "Ignore User," how am I going to know when they've both decided to rejoin a discussion with everyone rather than their endless argument?

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:13 a.m.

No, I didn't.

I suggested you read up on your claims.

My error at the time was not to press you for proof of who makes that claim and/or proof you have of me making that claim.

Again. Go read. Read the works cited. Read the critical analysis.

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 10:21 a.m

I interpret that as, you can't defend your position and this conversation is over.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...showing a list of what you wish to discuss is a start but I've been doing fine discussing issues presented on the open forum. Going Meta, huh??? That's what it was???

And Basil...here's my selection of articles worth discussing:

Somebody decided they better listen to the community for once: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

Obvious issues with highway alignment and the risk to drivers including the unnecessary loss of life: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

No legal marijuana grows in city limits: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

This one speaks for itself: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, I'm wondering why she assaulted the TSA person. Maybe a little groping by the official or fighting back the inspection of a small child perhaps??

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 19, 2011 at 10:25 a.m.

"Does it matter who does it, as long as it's done?"

I does matter the first amendment is alive and well in this country (or at least I hope so) If you are advocating their customers holding them accountable, I can get behind that, if however you are advocating government intervention, that would be a dangerous precedent.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh well...

Frobert, my comment to you friend is this...be sure to remember that what you share is your opinion and yours alone. There will always be someone who disagrees with you...will pick apart your posts word for word and find fault in your statement. I should know...it's all happened to me many a time and by your adversary as well. He's really, really good at what he does and will stand rock hard in his opinion. If you believe in your statements, why not just leave it at that and move on. Not everyone can be convinced to think otherwise and the frustrations you endure will only compound as long as you allow it to last.

I've tried to bring to attention how intense your discussion has been with others and I can tell by your writes how frustrated you have become. Been there, done that. Is it really worth it??? If you say yes, then I respect that. I also respect that you have a right to your opinion as Basil does his. One man's facts is another man's falsehoods. Is there really a right or wrong in this situation???

At this point, I guess I'll step away for the rest of the day and stop being a buttinski. I've got life to enjoy and it's calling me away from the computer as I write.

Peace always.

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:25 a.m.

Seems in your mind that "No" means yes.....

Sigh....

No NASA explanation

No national tire explanation

No party explanation

No explaining why you make claims and are unwilling to bring support....

Wow, just wow.....

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 10:56 a.m

In deference to the requests of other posters I will respond on last weeks thread.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The "C" says the bridge is going up around lunch time so beware. If you want to watch from home, here is the link;

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/vancouver/VancouverTraffic/default.aspx?cam=1267

hawkeye — July 19, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 10:28 a.m.

Yeah, the MM move by the V council makes little sense.

And it would be interesting if the housing article put a bit more into research. One year isn't a trend (that's a fav gambit of the ACC deniers), and they've missed discussing several other factors ; listed to sold price, sold v. tax assessment, # in arrears for tax or mort.,,,,,,

And both commenters are real estate agents.....

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, this is more for Matt or Libby, but it could be somewhat interesting;

LttE, Lou, and John are under Opinion

Open Forum is under News.

And this is a NEWSpaper.

Just sayin'....

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My daughter sent me this link...quite interesting that Jane Fonda feels she done nothing to hurt this country or the military at the time. Would be interesting to hear from those who served in Vietnam feels about what she said.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/jane-fonda-i-have-never-done-anything-hu

ELISI — July 19, 2011 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Outside of the much regretted photo-op, Fonda's words on the war were amazing. I've watched old interviews with her and just about everything she said about the Vietnam war was spot on.

We can vilify the messenger, but if enough people took to heart the insight that was provided as well as how history has defined this war...perhaps the insane and dangerous Bush doctrine of "Preemptive Strike" would never have been part of US policy.

We need to leave Iraq and Afghanistan yesterday.

QVC...Barbarella lives.

nailingit — July 19, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 19, 2011 at 11:27 a.m. *she done nothing to hurt this country or the military at the time.*

Also accurate would be to acknowledge that she was one of many voices showing how our military were inhumane, violating war convention treaties, and lying to the American people during that period.

"Bottom line, this has gone on far too long, this spreading of lies about me! None of it is true. NONE OF IT!" said Fonda. "I love my country. I have never done anything to hurt my country or the men and women who have fought and continue to fight for us. I do not understand what the far right stands to gain by continuing with these myths. In this case, they denied a lot of people the chance to hear about a book that can help make life better, easier and more fulfilling. I am deeply grateful for all of the support I have been getting since this happened, including from my Vietnam Veterans friends."

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


KATU had a live stream video and the barge is just about to pass through the railroad bridge swing span...then they went to traffic cams...dangit!

goldenoldie — July 19, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

That is exactly how my husband, 4 brothers, 2 brother in laws, and 11 cousins that served in/during Vietnam think also.

I remember what my Dad said even tho he was retired military at the time she did and said the things she did. Not going to repeat..but you are correct Allen, it was quite vile.

ELISI — July 19, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, all I have to say is that Jane was correct 99% of the time. The other 1% was because she didn't have the complete picture.

The military leaders lied. Johnson lied, Nixon lied and good solders died for no good reason.

hawkeye — July 19, 2011 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh-oh, the other side of the "C" is in trouble. FB is down. Bobbo must be having fits.

hawkeye — July 19, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye I was over there when Fonda did what she did.None of us wanted to be there.But we were all young 18 year olds.And we did as we were ordered.To not do so would have meant a dishonerable discharge.She may or may not have been right.But she undermined the morale of all the service men and women that were serving.She was wrong to have sided with the very enemy we were fighting.Even after 43 years I still look at her with disdane.

terick — July 19, 2011 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A little bit on how the R 'jobs' incentive is going:

Report: More Americans have green jobs than oil or gas jobs
Clean energy and other parts of the 'clean economy' account for 2 percent of US jobs, employing some 2.7 million Americans, according to a recent report.

Lighting standards adopted by Congress in 2007 have also created at least 12,500 jobs by fueling the growth of new, greener technologies, according to separate data from the National Electrical Manufacturers Association. The US House recently tried to overturn those regulations in an effort to keep traditional incandescent light bulbs from being phased out by the end of the year. Edison bulbs are cheap but waste 95 percent of the energy they consume as heat.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/0718/Report-More-Americans-have-green-jobs-than-oil-or-gas-jobs

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 4:51 p.m.

How many cfl manufacturers in the U.S.? I was under the impression they are mainly produced in China.

How many U.S. jobs lost in incandescent bulb manufacturing?

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 6:06 p.m.

Let us know when you find out and can make a coherent claim.

mr_basil_seal — July 19, 2011 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And what is your coherent argument that it is not about jobs as the sponsor claims? Oh that's right if your statement is implicit not explicit, you don't have to defend it.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 19, 2011 at 9:34 p.m.

As I said a week ago I read the article, Mrs T's link was to a Tabloid that often has alien abduction stories, is that what you call a reliable source?

RICCO is racketeering in corrupt organizations and has nothing to do with the press. Opinions are not lies and there is something in the constitution about telling lies it is called the first amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
That would indicate that telling a lie is a right of all Americans. Also I have news for you politics is always lies, at least from the opposing point of view.

If there are credible criminal allegations against any company I have no problem investigating them. Congressional investigations into the press however are prohibited by the first amendment. At this point the AG seems to be being careful as the allegations are coming from another tabloid, but keeping an eye on the situation as is wise.

On the Jane Fonda issue, I support her right to free speech, however I agree with your condemnation of her statements concerning soldiers. Her statements concerning government however were fair game.

Last, you keep asking republicans where are the jobs, look up the bill Basil is talking about, why should we be creating jobs in China at the expense of jobs in the U.S.?

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, I'm not going to argue with you. I only have one statement.... Prove it.

hawkeye — July 19, 2011 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One more thing Allen, if someone was going to pay somebody to post on these forums, I am sure it would be someone that didn't condemn their own party as much as I do, not to mention it would be someone that writes much better than I do.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One more thing. If Jane had done what you said and if she really was guilty of crimes, don't you think she would have gone to jail? Treason is a nasty crime and I'm sure if she was guilty of any, she would have been convicted.

hawkeye — July 19, 2011 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One can only recognize the comments of others as "drunken babble" if one has involved themselves in such alcohol-induced behaviorism.

goldenoldie — July 20, 2011 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The county and NOW the city have passed a moratorium on collective cannabis gardens? How utterly absurd. At the risk of parroting Jim Kennedy in the opinion section, I question the legality of these resolutions.

Someone has put visions of store front cannabis businenesses in these peoples heads. That's ridiculous. I'm aware of several permitted 30 plant grows within the city; the growers being patients holding recommendation as well as being a designated provider. Do YOU know where these are? Of course not.

That's because anyone that grows cannabis makes a concerted effort to keep the activity "secret." It's not because they are afraid of the police. Thieves are the problem. As long as cannabis is classified as schedule I the price of the flowers will remain inflated. Dare I say that makes for (heh) easy pickens'?

So what do you say we make people grow all in one area that is known to every citizen of the county. Yeah, that's just genius, aint it?

Sheesh.

Someone, please, please bring suit against these wholly ignorant busybodies.

Drift — July 20, 2011 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 19, 2011 at 11:53 p.m.

I don't even know why I attempt to engage in reasonable discourse. I am a conservative Libertarian, if you don't know what that is please look it up. I am not and never have been a member of the tea party, I was at one time a republican.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well will you look at that, Squisheyjammies is still around. And still full of the same..... whatever it is that fills squishey jammies.

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye I support your right to your free speech.But please don't dispairage the very people that fought for you to have your free speech.

terick — July 20, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye at 9:05 am...

Hilarious!!!

goldenoldie — July 20, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So much pot in the news lately... By the way, "fruit-flavored cigar wrappers" are usually called blunt wraps. Just sayin'.

PadmaRani — July 20, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That reminds me, PadmaRani,
I've been meaning to drop the C's editorial staff a note asking them to quit using the word "pot." Oh sure, I use it, but not in public conversation. I feel it adds a negative slant to the C's views when it's printed. And we all know news journalism should be unbiased (I crack me up).

BTW, FYI and all'a that:
"Pot" is from the Spanish word Potiguaya, a truncation of Potacion De Guaya. It was a drink made from seeping cannabis in brandy or wine. The literal translation is "Drink of Grief." Used out of context it's tough to know exactly what is meant. It could indicate anything from a bad trip to a beverage consumed at funerals.

Cannabis in the news is good. It's about time "we" started having candid discussions about it's legality (or lack of).

http://capndrift.wordpress.com/

Drift — July 20, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, you should stay around more often. You're just full of interesting little tidbits of information. It makes the reads more colorful.

goldenoldie — July 20, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


terick — July 20, 2011 at 9:19 a.m.

And what makes you think ***I*** wasn't one of those people?

Class of 1970

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, terick, I'm going to have to disagree with you that the Vietnam war had anything to do with "fighting for our right to free speech" as OUR country was never attacked. Was it?

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,
That would have been WWII, after the 1937 tax act. The Japenese had control of the areas we had been importing from. Point your favorite search engine at _Hemp for Victory_. It was an educational film put out by the U.S. Dept. of Ag. encouraging farmers to grow hemp for the war effort.

The link is my blog. Admittedly, my editorializing is a tad biased, but I -do- attempt to convey facts.

There have been several tribes that've run afoul of the DEA in their attempt to cultivate hemp. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation was one case (S.D.). I believe another on the East Coast is currently in process. The details escape me. There's also a couple of farmers in one of the Dakotas currently sueing the DEA to grow hemp.

Hemp is classified as schedule I right alongside psychoactive cannabis. The DEA does not differentiate the two.

Goldie,
Thank you! The thing is, I haven't any interest in arguing about lefts, rights, democrats, conservatives, liberals, et al. I've never voted for a candidate based upon their party affiliation. I color in the little box based upon their agreement with -most- of my views *shrug*.

I'm a keyboard activist. I feel strongly about the WoD and especially cannabis. I come creeping out of my hole when the newspaper articles yank my chain.

http://capndrift.wordpress.com/

Drift — July 20, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye we were supposed to be there to stop the spread of communism.Which at that time it was thought that if it spread it would have affected all of our rights.If you remember back in the 60s communism was the biggest fear the free world had at that time.It is not much different than what we are doing now to stop terrorism.Are we right in what we do,I don't know.We lost a lot more back than but the pain and sorrow that our young people are experiening now as they return is not much different.That I do know as our nephew just returned missing both legs and part of one hand.And he is ready to go back.

terick — July 20, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Tom Harkin said the Republicans have morphed into a cult! Well said Senator Harkin!!!

Pretty soon the God filled bloodlust midnight chants of Bachman will surface to include the blood sacrifice of Medicare...this 2011 Republican party...LOL!

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Save us Sarah! HAHAHAHA! I can't help myself...sorry.

hahaha...ahem...sorry...

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Terick, I'm not against war as it seems the only way to settle things that can no longer be discussed, however, as you might remember back before Vietnam there was a witch hunt in congress and in Hollywood for "Communists". Funny thing, NONE were found but several had their lives completely destroyed by the accusations. Vietnam was a horrible mistake, in the way things were handled. I can't say one way or the other as to whether we actually accomplished anything there except killing a lot of young men and innocent people. It was handled all wrong and we will never know what was discussed at the higher levels. I would guess that the people in office thought it was going to be a slam dunk because these "uneducated poor people" in Vietnam couldn't fend for themselves and we will just go in there, kick some butt and come home. What they didn't realize was we were up against "jungle smart" people that didn't fight using the same rules we did and we were no match for their abilities. All of a sudden we were in deep and had to stay to save face. For these missteps, I blame the military advisers for talking out their butts and the fear mongers for making everyone afraid of every little thing.

We still have those people around today. People like Beck and Hannity who trade on fear and innuendo to get the population worked up just to boost their ratings so they can charge more for advertising to make more money for the soap sellers and car makers. When it all boils down, it comes out..... money.

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - yes, history does repeat itself if we don't learn from our actions and/or mistakes! The majority of your 11:21 post could easily be a reference to Operation Iraqi Freedom, or whatever they decided to call it instead of Vietnam!

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think the original name for that conflict was to be "Operation Iraqi Liberation", but that spelled OIL! So...

In other news of the day, just heard that the Latino community has formed the "Tequila Party" to confront the hateful attacks by the Tea Party. How funny!

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk@11:21...we need a new campaign manager...you should join the platform! Excellent post. Somehow patriotism and going to war for any reason became synonymous. I respect our Military. What I don't respect are the leaders, military and political, that put our troops in harm's way needlessly to achieve results pursuing what is by definition an Imperialistic agenda.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T @ 11:35...the runts of the litter are being eaten and are fighting for survival!

Viva "Tequila Party"!!! There's not enough white-out in the world to save them!!!

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.

"hateful attacks by the Tea Party" ???

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The founder (former Republican) is from the state of Arizona, frobert. Yes, I'd say they feel under attack.

Note: I am absolutely against ILLEGAL immigration. My disgust with the issue is the lack of ENFORCEMENT/PENALTIES against those that employ them, giving the largest support of their continued influx.

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 12:16 p.m.

The stated principles of the tea party does not include any hate or racism, I am sure you can find individual examples, and I can many for democrats. The whole "tea party hate" and "evil Koch brothers" things are just propaganda. I am not a tea party member and I condemn the "pro war" tea party groups as a contradiction of founding ideals, but my opinion is based on fact not propaganda. Have you even read the ideals of the tea party? If you are going to make blanket statements about a group of people you should know what they stand for.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert....wow, just wow. Do you believe that a private business should have the right to say no to an American citizen based on their ethnic background, religious beliefs, the color of their skin, etc.?

Do you believe that it would be responsible to repeal parts or all of the civil rights act?

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Which "Tea Party" do you speak of, frobert? I keep hearing that they are "grassroots" and have no given "ideals". Seems to depend entirely on the particular member that is being asked the question. I have heard a few bits and pieces from individuals that I actually agree with! As far as propaganda, we are finding with the exposure of such groups as ALEC that there is more to the story to come...

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - do you believe that an individual that was born here to undocumented parents, has attended our schools, been gainfully employed and a contributing member to our community should be deported upon learning that their parents are here illegally? Or not have the right to vote? Seems like that is what some newly-elected Tea Party backed elected servants want.

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 12:39 p.m.

I condemn many positions of individual tea party groups such as, prayer in school, anti gay, anti abortion ect. However you can find these same extremist groups within the democrats. I stand for individual liberties, many tea party groups have departed from their base message, thus I do not support. If someone on here would condemn the tea party for what their positions and not the "hate" propaganda I may based on the position agree with them. Unlike democrats and neocons I will never believe that suppressing the freedom of some is a reasonable price for the greater good.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye it sounds like we are close to the same age?I remember in the 50s at school we were taught to go under the table in the event of a nuclear attack.It was on the news all the time.I do agree that Vietnam was full of misstakes by all of our commanders all the way to the top.It didn't seem to matter if they were Dems or Repubs.It was all about the money.I feel it is about the same now.Take a look at how much Haliburton has made off all this.It seems the US can't make it with out a war going on someplace.History shows that the Middle East has fought with each other and everyone around them since before recorded history.

terick — July 20, 2011 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 12:45 p.m

And some democrats protest gays at military funerals, what does that have to do with democrats in general?

As I said I have no problem condemning peoples for their actions, nor a group for their stated goals.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro-nailingit @ 12:39...please respond. These are yes and no questions.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.

I have made it clear many times that I support Civil rights and support the federal governments right to regulate them, through the fourteenth amendment.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


not real sure how this works, but I thought the county figures the milage rate for property taxes by starting out with the value of all property in the county. If so, if Kassad, the developer, is granted a $1.1 million dollar property tax abatement on his proposed downtown development, wouldn't the rest of us ending up absorbing the taxes he's abated? Seeing how the banks are really stringent on loans, he said, he needs the tax break to make this thing pencil out-ie, he makes a bundle thanks to the rest of us. Seems kinda outrageous to me.

mrd — July 20, 2011 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes or no. I believe you shade perspective with how you personally define terms or meanings to words such as "racist"...civil rights...in your world fro, wouldn't heavy contributions from multi-billionaires like the Koch Bros to organizations and political candidates that support a "conservative" agenda to include discrimination against gays be "evil" on the grounds they wish to subvert the constitution?? How about women who want to receive an abortion?

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


referencing Phelps (Westboro) to "some democrats" is a pretty far reach, frobert. He is one nut-case regardless of who he says he is affiliated with. I think his affiliation with the devil himself would be closer to the truth!

I agree with you on supporting the federal governments right to regulate. It is there that I part ways with the elected officials in states such as Arizona, who seem to think individual state agenda trumps the Constitution. How many dollars have the taxpayers of the other 49 states contributed to the "wall" and border enforcement? I do think it is a federal issue, and one that should not be bringing revenue to the private prison system in AZ! These states representatives that are attempting to limit voting rights are, to me, repulsive and totally agenda-driven. I don't give a rip what party they profess to belong to.

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.

As the constitution is written the federal government is very limited in what it can regulate, immigration is one of the few things that falls to federal authority.

So democrats don't have to accept their "nut cases" but you can point out any other nut cases as representing the position of their affiliated party?

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen West? Bachmann? Palin? Scott Walker?

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- Ron Paul, the candidate that you have trumped as someone you would support for the Presidency of the United States has stated he would not have voted and does not support the civil rights act. He said we would be "better off without it". He also wants to eliminate FEMA and other critical gov agencies. You are not coming off as an honest broker of your "ideals".

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - give me a Bernie Sanders/Olympia Snowe ticket and I'll be out door-belling! I'm not the Democrat flag-waver that you like to make me out to be.

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


1:26...Donald Trump, Herman Cain, three quarters of the US House of Representatives.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And then there is Ron Paul blaming the lack of guns on airplanes for setting up 9/11 tragedy...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/08/264114/ron-paul-blames-911-on-government-prohibiting-guns-from-being-on-the-airplane/

frobert - in advance, don't shoot the messenger - he is, after all on video!

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.

I have never said I support all of his views. The general view of the democrats that the freedom of the individual is secondary to the desire of the majority, I find more offensive than anything conservatives have said.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:47 p.m.

Did you read the article or just the headline, His point was that government regulations disallowed airline security from being armed. Is any other business in the country prohibited from providing security?

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 1:36 p.m.

I've always been a fan of Olympia Snowe.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


wow, frobert @ 1:49 - You'll have to 'splain that one for me! I would think that the invasion into the personal freedoms/bedrooms etc by the Republican party would closer fit that!

Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 20, 2011 at 2 p.m.

I find the "social conservatives" to be quite offensive and I do not consider them true conservatives. Again you are falling prey to the popular propaganda, conservatives believe in smaller less intrusive government. The conservative members of the Supreme Court have recently voted for the first amendment, for the second amendment and although they failed most of them voted against federal regulation of intrastate cannabis. Now if we could just get them to vote in favor of the fourth. Liberal members consistently vote against individual liberty including the fourth amendment. I strongly disagree with the democrats and the republicans on regulation of marriage, who marries who, is absolutely NONE of the governments business.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...all of his views? LOL! My god fro...what I mentioned goes to the very heart and principles of your self professed ideals...sigh. Another sell out, or a very polarized individual.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert - I agree with your post at 2:11 exactly. A recent study showed that many people in this country are moving towards a Libertarian view.

Woosker — July 20, 2011 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker...please source recent study. It might correlate with the rise in hallucinogenic drug use among lower and middle class income people.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - It's a recent Gallup pole. Here is the link. I think it has more to do with people wanting less government, less spending, less taxes and more individual freedom not hallucinogenic drugs.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121403/Special-Report-Ideologically-Moving.aspx?CSTS=alert

Woosker — July 20, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - I neglected to add the link that specifically addressed your question regarding the Libertarian shift. It is an article written by the New York Times. Here it is:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/poll-finds-a-shift-toward-more-libertarian-views/?partner=rss&emc;=rss

Woosker — July 20, 2011 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat

Meanwhile down in Roseburg ---

http://www.nrtoday.com/ARTICLE/20110720/NEWS/110729987/1063/NEWS

buckeye71 — July 20, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jack Burkman · Top Commenter · Council Member at City of Vancouver
We've been told they are interested in having a restaurant downtown. The current building has no seating or drive-in so it's a tough way to run a restaurant.(speaking of Burgerville downtown).... Must be real tough Jack, How long has Burgerville been doing business at that location? 25? 30 years? I read your post and personally they sound like you just blow smoke. The city council may want to take bribes and cram people into Downtown but the Citizens don't want it. Vancouver is broken, and the council is running out of duct tape.

vancouvernative1975 — July 20, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sportyjames — July 20, 2011 at 4:34 p.m.

I'm sure I don't know what you are talking about. Who did I call names? Those people in the video? What do you care, were you one of them?

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for responding Woosker. I have to dismiss the two year old Gallop Poll. Many have buyers remorse after 2010 election. Interesting article in the Times that many deem to be liberal. Interesting to note on the graph, the trend since 2010. All three groups. People want a balance of both. I think the current fractured nature of the Republican party went berserk in 08' when Barack Hussein Obama got in the White house. We as a people should have more freedom to do hallucinogenic drugs if we the people choose to do so. I'm all for individual liberties, but those liberties guaranteed at the Federal level. Not what state I'm passing through. Thanks for the links.

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh hey Sporty, when and IF you become an actual **contributing member** of "the basement" and not just a hit and run poster, I'll be more than happy to comment on you too.

hawkeye — July 20, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71@3:43...wow! These baggers intimidating a group of 65 and older women. These idiots should be locked up for awhile and stay away from the tea!

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 5:36 p.m

What individual liberties do the democrats support? Looking at recent Supreme Court rulings, you would be hard pressed to conclude they support any.

frobert — July 20, 2011 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey frobert...do you ever feel like you're surrounded by rabid wolves when you post on the Columbian lately??? You've got some resiliency, fro!

goldenoldie — July 20, 2011 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 6:10- The rights of Bachman's husband to be gay as well as Michele's right to continue crack therapy for her migraine headache trauma condition like.... don't cha know now.....

nailingit — July 20, 2011 at 11:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, we all probably call it the same thing. I was being civil. Thanks for the smile you generated.

goldenoldie — July 21, 2011 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

Sorry, I'm a bit late with this - I've been busy with other stuff.

Reference Jane Fonda and her visit to North Vietnam. I agree with what you say, and have always wondered why 1) she wasn't charged with aiding the enemy (as Tokyo Rose and others were after WWII), and 2) why the American people were so quick to forget. I suspect the answer to the 2nd question had to do with just wanting to forget a war we had no business being in because we were NOT trying to win it from about '68/'69 on.

However, the "slip of paper" incident probably never happened. Google Hanoi Jane and read the Snopes article. All the people this story was attributed have denied it ever happened.

In closing, the old girl should kick the bucket soon. Wonder if there's the possibility of a movement of vets to attend the funeral and spit on her grave? (I'd hate to be a police officer tasked with breaking something like this up.)

roger — July 21, 2011 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I posted a Second City video on your wall in response to your 11:16 PM comment last night. Enjoy!

manthou — July 21, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen: Thanks for that information. I am reposting it on the CRC Forum thread, where we are small in number, but large on ideas and passion. :)

manthou — July 21, 2011 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 19, 2011 at 8:44 p.m.

*And what is your coherent argument that it is not about jobs as the sponsor claims?*

Not sure who you mean by "sponsor", and equally unclear on why you think I'd be making an argument that the article "is not about jobs".

*Oh that's right if your statement is implicit not explicit, you don't have to defend it.*

I brought the article forward because of the recent HR action to defeat the 'light bulb bill'. The article is pretty clear that supporting clean energy is good for the economy.

mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 11:07 a.m

Forcing people to buy light bulbs from China is good for the economy, of China.

frobert — July 21, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 21, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

Of course, missing that the scope of the article is about the range of new jobs created by a combination of stimulus money and a growing awareness of the importance of environmental and climate issues is rather a good example of how you willfully misinterpret the point so as to move the conversation to a quasi-libertarian POV. Nice try.....

Perhaps more fruitful issues are the legislation that makes in more profitable for a co. to export the jobs or how legislation offers loopholes for externalizing costs.

mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 11:43 a.m

"A little bit on how the R 'jobs' incentive is going:"

I was simply pointing out that your implicit argument, that this proposal was not about jobs, was false. I have no problem condemning any bill that works against U.S. jobs. You are attempting to convolute the argument.

frobert — July 21, 2011 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*implicit argument, that this proposal was not about jobs,*

Not sure what you mean by "proposal", It is a newspaper article about the rise in 'green economy' jobs.

Which makes the claim " *implicit argument, that this proposal was not about jobs,*
" about as nonsensical as any I've seen here.

Now, what about the jobs that are discussed in the article came through due to action by R.s?

mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:03...Tooooo funny!!!LOL...thanks for the laugh!

nailingit — July 21, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 12:28 p.m.

I have made my point, anyone interested in the facts has looked them up and anyone more interested in bashing "R.s" will continue to ignore the facts. In short I am done arguing on the subject.

frobert — July 21, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal



fro@ 12:53-Wrong assertion, right plan of action.

nailingit — July 21, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like we just might have an NFL season after all.

I hope, I hope, I hope....

hawkeye — July 21, 2011 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Our fine US House is taking the weekend off in spite of the debt ceiling crisis. Lazy, corrupt, uninformed, immature and irresponsible are just a few words to describe these people.

Jaime? Home for the weekend?

nailingit — July 21, 2011 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I've been away from the news for about a day and a half...but I believe the House has already voted and approved the "'Cut, Cap and Balance' " Plan...so isn't it the Senate's Job??? I'm sure if they have any questions, they know how to get hold of the Representatives in the House. So come on now, Nailingit...isn't your statement just a bit prejudiced because the house is Repub Majority??? What if the tables were turned and the House was Dem Majority and they took the weekend off? Instead, would you be saying "It's a deserved break. They've worked hard for the people of the United States."???

Really Nailingit...prejudices tarnish a person's credibility when they choose to wear their true colors.

goldenoldie — July 21, 2011 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 21, 2011 at 7:05 p.m.

Except:
"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) stated categorically that he expects the plan to be defeated when it occurs, likely on Saturday morning.

"The Republicans' so-called Cut, Cap and Balance plan doesn't have one chance in a million to pass the Senate," Reid said on the Senate floor Thursday morning."
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107211103dowjonesdjonline000435&title;=us-senate-likely-to-vote-on-house-passed-budget-plan-on-sat

Now, how many of the Reps have townhalls scheduled?

mr_basil_seal — July 21, 2011 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wish it was even close to reality that we could "CAP" spending at the 1966 level, as this CCBull plan stipulates. Also, there is NO detail regarding what will be "CUT". And they blame others for not putting forth a plan? Why would anyone vote on a blank document, pretty much what it is?

Mrs_T — July 21, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie...being away from the news for a day and a half isn't a reason to point fingers and scream "prejudice", let alone to display ... anyway... "Cut Cap and Balance" already has a veto promise. They need to work on the real solution. It's been nothing but politics in the house. Perhaps you shouldn't use international sources as your primary American political news source. You might be able to offer up a little more substance and less criticism. Don't know about your true colors comment, you seem to be acting quite brash and crude as of late and I'm sure you will feel victimized from my observation. This behavior of yours usually happens before you have one of your total blow outs and rant about your right to speak then pout for awhile. You take this comment section way to seriously.

Relax,,,Jesus loves you. Glenn Beck loves you, (might be time to put that check in the mail) and the basement loves you. No need to go so negative with so little reason for doing so.

nailingit — July 21, 2011 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @ 7:05....My offer to make her breakfast still stands. Perhaps we could discuss jobs! :))

nailingit — July 21, 2011 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil and Nailingit...you silly ones! You fell for it hook, line and sinker with my comment!!! I knew I'd get your dander up on that one!!! Both of you have only shown your true colors...and both of you had to take the time out to point out that the senate majority leader, Harry Reid "knows" the initiative will fail...something I was already well aware of. Tells you a lot about politics and the division of our nation, doesn't it!!! And Nailingit...did you fail to comprehend my comment in the open forum for July 11-17th which I posted on the 18th at 9:00 am when I said and I quote...

"""Well Nailingit...with you around, you'll try to keep everyone on the mark, right??? Just teasin'. You're right, though. When people hear what they want to hear, it's the other garbage which gets pounded into their heads which is dangerous. Quite frankly...when Beck left Fox, that was the best day of my life. You know why that is Nailingit??? Because I stopped watching Fox...along with MSNBC, CNN and all those other repetitive news channels who try their best to brainwash everyone no matter what the subject is. Funny how they call themselves News Channels, huh! Oh and BTW....I don't subscribe to GB's email newsletters and don't visit his website either. Bet that surprised you, huh! I've never watched Huckabee, Palin or any of the others except I did try to watch Hannity...was bored to tears. I don't like watching anyone like Blitzer on CNN or Nancy Grace (ewww...just got a sick feeling on that one). In fact...I find them ALL a waste of my time. About the only thing I watch now is BBC and PBS Newshour if I want my international news."""

So your little dig about Beck...it is a shallow, empty abyss of nonsensical attempts at political bashing of someone who doesn't always agree with you, but that's okay. You know why that is my dear fellow poster??? Because all it does is re-emphasize my previous point on July 21st at 7:05 pm.

And as long as there's such a division of political parties...and the suckering of the voters following in the elitists' control of strengthening the division, I don't see any improvement coming in our nation no matter what the decision is in DC.

Thanks for playing the game, though. It's been fun!

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


from allycat's Newyorker link:

Dalio is **rich—preposterously rich. Last year alone, he earned between two and three billion dollars,** and reached No. 55 on the Forbes 400 list. But what distinguishes him more from other hedge-fund managers is the depth of his economic analysis and the pretensions of his intellectual ambition

And there's that pesky Cap Gains rate.......

mr_basil_seal — July 22, 2011 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 7:07 LOL!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:07 a.m.

Clever, but not by half, attempt to cover up what in the current vernacular would be a 'fail'.

mr_basil_seal — July 22, 2011 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You're so passionate! LOL! Relax, chill and please stop with the personal insults with me and those who DARE to disagree with you! LOL! Do some gardening, cook, go the store...whatever and have a wonderful day. Please feel free not to repeat your posts! LOL! The basement loves you regardless of your erratic behavior and so do I! Jesus, Glenn and the basement..what more do you need??? LOL! Try laughing...it works great! LOL!

Treat others as you would have them treat you. Your boy Glenn didn't come up with that...but trust me...it works AND it's right!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I'm glad you could take it lightheartedly! Keep that puddin' face grin up! It's better for your health.

..

How is that a fail, Basil...and by whom? It was you who was first to jump in on the counterattack as is typical of your demeanor, sir...and in doing so, you have only emphasized my previous point twofold! Besides Basil...if anybody is failing...it isn't me and it isn't you. It's our elite leaders in DC, the states, the counties and the cities...and the people who have voted them in are not taking a strong enough stance to fight for them to make the decisions that must be made. Instead our leaders are only working on Band-Aid fixes. That's all too obvious.

Again...thanks for the game, Basil. You have a WONNNNNDERFUL weekend. Looks like Summer will finally be here! (The same goes for you too, Nailingit!!!)

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


allycat @ 6:36

What you are pointing to is an example of the rising income inequality in the US.

From the 40's through the 80's the top 10% earned about 1/3 of total income, now they are pushing 50%. And the top 1% have an even sharper rise.

Also, and a part that directly effects us is the wage repression that goes along with it.

See: http://www.bu.edu/buniverse/view/?v=20ZaW9PO

mr_basil_seal — July 22, 2011 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmmm, wonder what side of the fence the PtB and those wanting to be the PtB think about this:

Amazon's Scorched-Earth War Against the Rest of Us
— By Kevin Drum

What is Amazon.com's biggest advantage over its competition? One-click ordering? The ability to go shopping in your pajamas? Its enormous selection? Those all play a role, but Christopher Caldwell thinks the real answer is the fact that Amazon's customers mostly don't have to pay state sales tax:

It is the tax exemption, not the technology, that most distinguishes Amazon from its rivals. Its price advantage is the most important thing about it. The ruthlessness with which Amazon is resisting tax reform might be a measure of the centrality of tax-privilege to its business model. One can look at the collapse of Borders, not to mention independent booksellers, and ask whether government policy has undermined the bricks-and-mortar retail economy to protect a will-o'-the-wisp.

At first glance this seems silly. Can a 5-to-10-percent price difference really be such a deal breaker for Amazon? But Caldwell has a point: Amazon's ferocious response to recent attempts to get it to collect sales taxes suggests a company that thinks its life depends on not paying them. So what's going on here?

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/07/amazons-scorched-earth-fight-against-everyone

mr_basil_seal — July 22, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, all: In the print version today, I read an interesting article:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

Makes me wonder.

There is also an article about using Facebook comments to identify personality types.

When I was out on a walk yesterday, I noticed a couple sitting at a sidewalk table at Starbucks, both intent on their smart phones, texting furiously into the screen. No personal interaction between the two. Maybe they were texting each other?

manthou — July 22, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...I knew your post at 7:17 am couldn't go without further commenting. You have made me laugh this morning. Besides...I had to repeat my post just for you and Basil. Consistency, you know. Erratic behavior??? Naw...just putting an iron in the kettle is all. Personal insults??? What personal insults??? I just pointed out something I wanted to make sure you realized what you were getting caught up in...and that is helping out the Elitists to accomplish what they've set out to do for years, now. You know...increasing the division of our nation??? Recent arguments on the C display that fact so distinctly. And Nailingit...did you hear me spout banter related to false accusations in idolizing some Television Personality? Should we talk about personal insults right now??? Come on now, nailingit. You know darned well that I've caught you in a little boo boo. Why don't you admit it??? It's not going to hurt you. Of anything, it would re-establish your credibility.

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: I did read about the Amazon dot com sales tax issue.

It makes me think twice about using this convenient service again, given the consequences of reinforcing it.

manthou — July 22, 2011 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Manthou. A beautiful, sunny start to the weekend, for sure. Maybe we'll finally get some more tomatoes and peppers to set on our plants. My zucchini is finally blooming!!!

Regarding your comment about the two texting...

It gets even better when they're doing that as they cross the street or when you see a group of four teens standing in a circle, texting and laughing but nobody talking with their mouths instead of their thumbs.

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Folks...the weather's great and life away from the realm of internet sounds a lot better than sitting in front of a computer monitor! Seize the day and enjoy the weekend, everyone!!! It'll all be here when you get back from enjoying life!

Buh Bye!!!

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yep. I hear my cage rattling again. Heh.

So the Columbian is endorsing illegal moratoriums that are based upon fear and ignorance of the law. Won't someone please, please take a moment to read the law (5073 became law at midnight)? Section 1102 in Part XI relates to cities and towns adopting zoning for DISPENSARIES!

Any and most everything having to do with dispensaries was vetoed by the Governor. Why she left 1102 intact I haven't a clue. My point is, that section has NOTHING to do with collective gardens.

There are many "gardens" currently in both Clark County and the city. Legal gardens with more than 15 plants. Other than the occasional theft, what exactly is the issue here?

Ignorance. That is the issue. Plain and simple.

Though I'm preparing to leave this shack for the weekend, I seldom get out due to my malady. I won't be attending the various "meetings" in an effort to educate the council and commissioners. I'll have to settle for letters.

I hope those folks are better at letter comprehension then the are legal documents.

Sheesh.

I'm off to take a cold shower, before I blow a hose!

Drift — July 22, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am heading for the Northern Oregon coast after chores today, goldie, in the hopes that the sun is reaching its shores!

I truly worry about this technology thing, especially with developing young brains. I really cannot predict where it will go, but restricting use and increasing human time is essential.

Peace, all.

manthou — July 22, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Have a great getaway manthou...I hope there won't be a reason for the 'civility czar' to intervene! LOL! I'm also going to the coast this weekend with my family. Have a good one!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I just wanted to throw this out there.

I saw on a news station an ad for "The Street Of Affordable Homes".

***STARTING IN THE LOW 400's ????? ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME???***

Who can afford that? Not me.

hawkeye — July 22, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 22, 2011 at 9:46 a.m.

In another bit of perspective, those would have been 650K + a few years ago.....

But what the 'affordable' 400K shows is yet another example of the rising inequity of income and wage stagnation.

See: http://www.bu.edu/buniverse/view/?v=20ZaW9PO

mr_basil_seal — July 22, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Libby, saw your comment over on the other side...
The answer is no. No, industrial areas are not the place to grow 45 plants. No, the soil conditions are not regulated. No, section 1102 does NOT apply to "collective gardens." That section was meant to address dispensaries.

I'm getting ready to log off for the weekend. When I get back Sunday afternoon I would be happy to answer any more questions you might have. Not to pat myself on the back, but from all appearences I'm the only vocal individual in Clark County that knows the law.

And what's going on right now, aint it.

Have a good weekend all. I'm off to go hang out with my old navy buddies!

Cap'n Drift
(USN '76-'79)

Drift — July 22, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


$400,000 houses.

Although we may see some ups and downs, no true recovery can happen in the housing market until the median income can pay for the median home.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Posted by Jane Fonda July 22, 2011

The Truth About My Trip to Hanoi

http://janefonda.com/the-truth-about-my-trip-to-hanoi

buckeye71 — July 22, 2011 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner withdraws from debt talks with Obama
[AP] - President Barack Obama said Friday night that House Speaker John Boehner was "walking away" from negotiations to raise the nation's debt ceiling and avert financial catastrophe. Still, Obama said he was expecting congressional leaders from both parties at the White House Saturday morning.

Typical republiCAN'T, POS can accomplish anything. Vote his butt out.

How are you doing Jamie? Oh I forgot, just "following the leader" aren't you?

hawkeye — July 22, 2011 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I had to check in one more time today, just because...

...and I'm sorry I did. When the Facebook applications started, the basement was a fun place to share thoughts and comments but I see it has returned to the same old crap before FB.

Without a doubt, it was quite easy for me to prove my point with Basil and Nailingit...although it was all in fun, but now I see the continuation of signs of hatred for our fellow humans just because they had chosen one type of political party to support rather than the one the person posting preferred. It is obvious to me that the only ones who will ever win in our struggle for our economy are the elite few who have complete control of DC and have manipulated our lifestyles by feeding on the weakness of each and every one of us. The ever increasing division of our society is what will break our will to remain a free country and until people open their eyes and unite together as we did on 09/11/2001 after the attacks... our freedoms will continue to whittle into an unrecognizable nation worthy of the comment by Alleycat which states "We are the Laughing Stock of the World." Of course, I refer to the world of the elite few.

I'd say that within a few months...maybe a few years, you will all be scratching your heads when you come to your senses and realize it wasn't a divided political office that destroyed our free nation...and once you stop playing the blame game...you'll all be saying "What the F happened?"

sigh....

God help us all.

Adios amigos!

goldenoldie — July 22, 2011 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner...Cantor...another meeting with a republican leaving in a hissy. These guys just aren't mature enough to negotiate or lead! Who is in charge of these House Republicans?!?

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! alley you're going to get her riled! LOL! Beck's like a housefly that's been around waaaay toooo long...his message lives on! LOL!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alley-Exactly. Republicans were voted in with that singular message. Jobs. Once they got the house they said it wasn't governments job to bring jobs! LOL! These right wing government employees are incorrigible! All they have done is try to squash unions, outlaw abortions and attempt to bring the rest of the world into their faux moral fantasy land. I wish Bernie Sanders had the support and numbers to run for POTUS!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The President had no authority in negotions in the first place. maybe now they will be back in Congress where they should have been all along.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:03 p.m.

And it was the democrats that blocked their attempt to allow U.S. light bulb factories to stay open.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...fro...the new standards were introduced by Republicans and signed into law by George Bush! LOL!!! I'm laughing now fro in order to defuse troubled minds which perceive disagreement as to display hatred towards humankind! LOL!!! I don't know how long I can keep this up! LOL! (that's what she said!) LOL!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.

That doesn't change the fact that democrats blocked the attempt to roll them back to keep jobs in the U.S.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.

Also it was part of the democrats 100 hour plan. voted for by all but 4 democrats.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...we mean it...no we don't...we mean it...no we don't...LOL! What's your view on the debt ceiling fro? Should we raise it? LOL!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.

We should start by ending the wars bring all the troops home, eliminate the DEA and the war on drugs. Then eliminate all Federal agencies that have redundant counterparts in all the states.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! Should we raise it by Aug. 2nd? LOL!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:06 p.m.

Without making changes it makes no difference if we raise it or not.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm with you on two out of three. Let's make a deal. End the wars, abolish the DEA, but not the last. For the third that we don't agree on...you right wingers can take home movies of people's whose lives have been destroyed due to Republican policies and laugh at them over a 100 dollar cigar and some Johnny Blue...

The civil rights act is redundant and supported by many "Big Government" agencies in many forms. Should we toss it into Paul's pile of freedoms to be burned? What about the many disasters FEMA has been helping with? Onandonandon. 2 out of three ain't bad! Oh, I almost forgot...LOL!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sooo.. it won't change America's credit rating costing us higher interest rates...sigh.

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...oh yeah...LOL!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:18 p.m.

The civil rights act is constitutionally authorized by the fourteenth amendment, therefore I have no problem with it.

Although I hold republicans in contempt for their position on the 4th amendment, it is the democrats that think individual rights are secondary to societal needs.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!!!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:20 p.m.

Raising our debt limit without curtailing our spending will result in diminished credit rating.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What's their fine for being "in contempt"? LOL!!!!!!! Two smacks with a ruler until you people roll back ROE v WADE! LOL!!! Make em sit in the corner until RyanCare gets passed! LOL! Allow them to deregulate the banking industry or they'll have to watch a season of Jon Stewart! LOL!!!

How contemptible!!! LOL!!!

nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 22, 2011 at 7:36 p.m.

Meant have contempt for.

Deregulating the banking industry would be fine if no one would bail them out.

Now the democrats deny the first amendment, the second , the fourth and the tenth. I could even more if you didn't have a democrats limited comprehension of rights.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - I happen to feel that SOME of those "societal needs", such as being able to eat fish from a river or turn the faucet on for a glass of drinkable water are of priority. As we know, Jamie Herrera-Beutler just voted with her Republican party to gut the "Clean Water Act" that has served us well for 40 years.

Channel 8 news (my regular source of daily news) had a blurb or ad about the pending threat to public/free TV. Not all people can afford cable, want cable or have access to cable. It seems that the budget cutting can result in Congress "auctioning off" airwaves. Do we really want to hear only what the owner wishes us to hear? I encourage all that agree to to to www.futureofTV.org to contact your representative.

Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry - that should be www.thefutureofTV.org

Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:01 p.m.

No, everyone has to stand by ALL the rights in the Constitution, at the rate we have been letting them slip away and it won't be long until we have none. Amending the constitution is the only answer, if part of it doesn't support society's needs. Ignoring the Constitution is NEVER the correct path, it is the most dangerous thing our government can do.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


and I agree on that, frobert! Seems like society's needs are being stripped even when they are for the welfare of the people! Seems to be OK if it benefits the corporations, instead.
Oh well, again, we get what we vote for (or whoever if we choose not to vote).

Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:03 p.m.

The FCC makes up its own rules as it goes along, and is controlled by democrats. Jaime Herrera-Beutler is one of the members of congress that is protesting the plan.

frobert — July 22, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - it was controlled by Colin Powell's son, Michael when the rules were drastically changed regarding media ownership (during Bush). Thanks for the update, though!

Mrs_T — July 22, 2011 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 12:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 22, 2011 at 5:30 p.m.

Alley, you silly goose. I wasn't saying I'm leaving. I just said goodbye friends for the day. I'm still around but as I said to you, I won't be sitting in front of my monitor, wasting my day by sparring with the best of the people who visit the Columbian. Now as far as that revolving door is concerned...

at least when I leave for a few days or a few weeks, I'm welcome to come back and post by the folks at the C. Just out of curiosity, when the door is slammed on you...doesn't it tick you off? They've seemed to do that to you several times, alley. I've tried in the past to get myself ousted from the C...even asked them in separate emails to eliminate me from the C's history...but I guess they like me to share my thoughts and opinions. I'm just choosing to reduce my electricity bill even more...even by a few pennies...and that includes shutting down the computer for the day.

So if you think I'm leaving...naw!!! You just won't see me post as often. Nailingit has made a comment that I've been expressing erratic behavior. I couldn't help but laugh at that personal attack. I guess they forgot I enjoy writing. It's called wildfire writing which will usually produce something different each and every time. In all their wisdom, I'm sure Nailingit probably knew that but chose the other route.

You see alley, this forum is not as user friendly as it should be. I enjoy the majority of the posts...but sometimes, it's just not worthy of my time any more. Never fear though...you're still stuck with me here.

Seize the day and enjoy the warm weather. Life goes on, my friend. I don't know about you, but today and tomorrow??? I'm enjoying the fun of a summer weekend! Adio!

goldenoldie — July 23, 2011 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley...one more comment...

Regarding the Washougal Motocross event - it's not a drinking event. The riders work long and hard hours in order to compete. Just by your comment, you make it sound as if all motocross people are into the controlled-substance ring which is far from the truth. The event is a fun family event for those who are interested in moto. As far as the cost...just how much do you think a family spends when they go to the CC Fair? Or how much you pay for the price of a ticket for a concert at the Clark County Amphitheater??? Reality sucks. Entertainment at venues such as this are expensive...just like everything else in this world.

goldenoldie — July 23, 2011 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, frobert....

The needed changes you mentioned are beyond the average voters ability to comprehend. Stop the wars? You mean, let the terrorists take over the world? Legalize drugs and let our children all become drug addicts?
There are two scenarios for a viable third party. One is for a party that is centrist, that lures voters equally from both the republican and democratic parties. But this centrist approach would probably perpetuate many current deficiencies.
The other is a party that advocates for really big changes. This will only find a sufficient following when conditions get so bad in the country, or a widely available smart pill is invented, that people will embrace real change. Most of the current third party players in this category are simply biding their time, such as the Libertarians, Reform Party, and Green Party. All of these third parties seem to have a narrow view of the world and overly simplistic solutions.
The earths's carrying capacity is rapidly approaching. Eight billion people, all trying to achieve the middle class American Dream lifestyle. Something has got to give...

mangoboy — July 23, 2011 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, thanks again for the invite to the alberta street Last Thursday event. I am actually quite aware of party atmosphere and avoid the congestion. I am also aware of the parking issues in the area along with what goes on in the neighborhoods around it...and please respect me and don't tell me there's nothing going on. My relatives have a business in the core of that area and two separate relatives once lived nearby as well...moving out due to the crime aspect. I know the event is a fun one...but too congested in that area for me to enjoy and knowing what I know about the area...too many negatives for me to attend.

goldenoldie — July 23, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The other is a party that advocates for really big changes. This will only find a sufficient following when conditions get so bad in the country, or a widely available smart pill is invented, that people will embrace real change."

As a country, nothing I see indicates we're going to get smarter. Leaves one to wonder how much worse things have to get before any real changes occur? If this stupid, polically motivated debt crisis does indeed occur with devastating economic effects, I hope to see people taking it to the streets as I don't want to be alone.

mrd — July 23, 2011 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — July 23, 2011 at 7:09 a.m.

Fooled by Hope, Where Do We Go From Here?
Jan Lundberg
18 July 2011
Perfectly intelligent people were fooled, or they fooled themselves, by the Barack Obama phenomenon. The good-cop bad-cop game of the Republicrat/Demopublican Establishment was effective, after progressive people suffered eight years of "W." So after enough months of Obama at the helm of the good ship Status Quo, we found he might be the New Boss that The Who warned us about in Won't Get Fooled Again. Great to have a Black family in the White House, but it's turning out to be as meaningful as having a White family in the Black House (whatever that means).
Let me go a step further than the old refrain "throw the rascals out." New rascals just take their place; such is the nature and purpose of our social system. So in this age of terminal ecological drama, it is time for a new approach. Great faith in elections as The Answer is the lazy, timid way out. For we find that we're still sheep inside the pen awaiting the slaughterhouse. If the pen is our economy and consumerism, then leaving the pen and heading for the hills would be the sane course of action. The idea of arming and organizing the sheep to take over the slaughterhouse -- to seize or heal the system for more equitable distribution and other reforms -- is fatuous. Better to disarm the butchers by boycotting their slaughterhouse. Veganism isn't enough.

Now, many will say they cannot boycott the slaughterhouse because they are busy. Or because there might be an Iranian or Al Qaeda slaughterhouse somewhere else. Or because we have too many good chits to cash in at the slaughterhouse and we don't know if yonder green hills are really our modern style. For those wedded to business as usual, whether you be sheep or butcher, the abrupt failure of a system depending on cheap oil may make any alternatives to starving suddenly quite desirable. With expensive, dwindling oil and the related climate disruption already hitting -- 14 states with unusually bad heat waves today -- the sudden inconvenience of not being able to drive to work or find food that was always trucked in to the supermarket will make the sheep and butchers run amok. When perhaps only a few are left standing, a new appreciation of our renewable resources and the need to cooperate peacefully will be painfully obvious. Enter the sustainable culture. It is tragic that it has always been in reach, but with a harder and harder up front cost to bear the longer it is postponed.

This harsh analysis does not mean to say all politicians are worthless, or that voting should be boycotted. But one should combine realistic expectations with most energy devoted to lifestyle change and community resilience.

http://www.culturechange.org/cms/content/view/761/68/

mr_basil_seal — July 23, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie,

maybe Alleycat could provide a motorcycle escort security detail...

mangoboy — July 23, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden,
Hey there, I picked a couple cherry tomaroes last night, couldn't believe there was actually 3 ripe ones...On a brighter note our youngest just flew in from boot camp and is here for a week before heading back to his first assignment.. The weatherman was right for a change too, he hit the weekend weather on the head. Heading out to enjoy after watering everything this morning...

On a lighter note I see the NFL and the GOP and DEM's are on the same path... I wonder who will settle first..LOL...Everyone tring to slide something by the next person.. Ethics?? Who has any more today... It's like waking up in the morning going out to your vehicle only to find the window broken and someone trashes your car... Too many people lacking Morals and character & Ethics at all levels.. Have a great weekend... Put some sun screen on, if you can find it in the back of some shelf..LOL

vanwadreamer — July 23, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Perfectly intelligent people were fooled, or they fooled themselves, by the Barack Obama phenomenon.

Obama has progressive sympathies but to get anything done in D.C. you have to compromise...everything.

mangoboy — July 23, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 23, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.

Insanity is not constrained by one's religion or political affiliation.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey cat, who didn't see that coming?

Sorry, can't think of anybody.

hawkeye — July 23, 2011 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal



alleycat- A great loss in our music community. I wish more of today's singers would embrace this genre of sounds. She was kinda like a female Mel Torme in some ways, meaning no disrespect to the late great 'Velvet Fog'.

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


after the usual ranting of Larimer on the Norwegian tragedy story, with him blaming everyone from enraged Catholic nuns to an Islamic terrorist, he has become strangely silent now that the description of the guilty happens to perfectly describe non other than Bob Larimer!

Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 4:05 p.m

The man that did this was obviously seriously mentally Ill, I have no problem condemning bobs rants about it, however when you compare the person that did this to bob, you show yourself to be no different than bob.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I thought the same thing Mrs_T. Not him in particular as I read it on the CNN site, but the 'rabid conservatives'* that have been promoting hate, the birthers and such. Palin used the term "reload" the other day once again. I hope she continues to keep the gunsights off her web site! She most likely is grasping at anything to get her name in the news.

Maybe 50% of the GOP? Just guessing :))

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 4:24 p.m.

Who is promoting hate and fear?

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 4:39...LOL!

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


on Bob's ranting on that one article, he has painted a pretty good self-portrait. It is not me painting him into a corner, he did it to himself on this one. I'm quite confident that they are not the same person, inclined to both commit such a horrific crime, but he is extremely right-wing and constantly condemning of anyone of the Islamic (or any other, even those of the Christian faith that disagree with him), as this horrible person was known to have done on the "internet". Yes, I am saying that Larimer promotes hate and fear. That is all that I am saying. Don't read more into it.

Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Yes, I am saying that Larimer promotes hate and fear. That is all that I am saying. Don't read more into it."

Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 5:33 p.m.

And IMO, you would be correct.

hawkeye — July 23, 2011 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I assume LOL! is your answer when your lack intellectual capacity or testicular fortitude to defend your position.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 5:33 p.m.

I agree that bob promotes hate and fear, and so do many on the left, but comparing him to this child murderer is no different then comparing all left leaning independents to Jared Loughner.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 23, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.

How many times do you call people NAZI's, facist or tea bagger?

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 23, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.

from my point of view bob,Allen,Mrs_T or nailingit are no different all you do is spread misinformation and bash the other side. You never have anything positive to say about your position, just perpetuating hate and fear.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert...you right wingers have been so paranoid and without humor as of late. It's death for some of you to lose an argument, and you seem to lose every one you're in!! LOL!

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - I'm actually quite positive. We have the outing of Murdoch's dirty works, the revelations regarding ALEC being the author of many horrible bills being presented and sometimes passed against the working man, environmental protections, etc. and a complete listing of who their founders and members are. (ALECexposed.org) We are seeing first-hand what idiots we have in Congress on both sides of the fence and hopefully will do someting about it in 2012. The American people are resilient, and can take only so much before acting. (Yes, you could say the same thing about the 2010 elections). I am positive.
And thank you for telling me that Herrera-Beutler was fighting the freeTV issue. We shall see if her vote follows her rhetoric. I'm hopeful that it will.

Mrs_T — July 23, 2011 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...if anyone's seen Jaime, tell her I'll keep the coffee warm!

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 23, 2011 at 8:42 p.m.

Exactly my point, no different.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 23, 2011 at 9:06 p.m

Not quite, fro. Allen doesn't use the "religion" angle. Bobbo uses it to excess as justification for his rants regardless of the truth.

hawkeye — July 23, 2011 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 23, 2011 at 9:51 p.m.

I agree that bob should actually read the teachings of conservatism. The left however, puts forth just as many "lies" they are usually more half truths then outright lies. One case would Basil complaining that R's instead of working on jobs tried to overturn a law that created ,12,500 jobs, what he forgot to mention is the new jobs were in China and a similar amount of jobs would be lost in the U.S. I do not support bob's political position any more than allen's but allen's position that what he says is somehow different or justified, is hypocritical, and as long as this group complains about lies or derogatory verbiage from those they disagree with, I will point out their similarities.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 23, 2011 at 10:10 p.m.

The supercongress is just a committee and anything it passes still has to pass both houses. No facism, just different nomenclature. Article I section 5 of the Constitution gives the houses of congress the authority to set their own rules.

frobert — July 23, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat...wow...this is the kind of stuff that will lead to anarchy. What the hell..these people try to subvert the the very constitution they lay claim to any chance they get.

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Cat can't answer you now, he's downtown P-town supporting the "gay march" tonight.

hawkeye — July 23, 2011 at 11:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! Hey hawk...I checked out the new Popeye's yesterday. Most excellent!

nailingit — July 23, 2011 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Vanwadreamer, sorry I didn't get back to your comment directed to me, yesterday. Lucky you to have your first tomato harvest. I re-evaluated my tomato plants and have found several new ones beginning to develop. My green beans on the other hand are quite full with thousands of new blossoms, too. Now this morning, I have to do the same thing you mentioned yesterday. Time to go water the plants.

As far as the rest of your comment...Spot on, my friend.

Everyone...enjoy your day! Treat it like it's the last day on this God Given Planet and make the best of each and every day ahead! Ciao!!!

goldenoldie — July 24, 2011 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 23, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.

*One case would Basil complaining that R's instead of working on jobs tried to overturn a law that created ,12,500 jobs, what he forgot to mention is the new jobs were in China*

Wow, you really have a problem with basic levels of comprehension....

You've attempted to conflate two separate bills and two separate issues by making up some statistics.

And that is pretty typical of your rhetorical attempts.

mr_basil_seal — July 24, 2011 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, thank you for the 14 points.

mr_basil_seal — July 24, 2011 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Who was it that was asking for a definition of narcissism the other day?

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 8:06 a.m

That was all in your mind, if you go back and read my posts, I read the article and thanked Basil for providing a valid link.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 7:05 am: I suggested a new Forum topic for those of us who may want to discuss "back fence" apolitical issues like gardening, food, weather once in awhile. In the meantime, let me say that I planted a flower garden this year that makes me smile every time I go outside (that is because it is beautiful, yes, but that I can hardly believe I did it myself!). The butterflies and bees are having a daily party there!

I have two varieties of sunflowers, pink and white cosmos and blazing red and orange nasturtium. I even took an old Topsy Turvy that failed with tomatoes last year, punched holes around its column, and planted some hanging nasturtium that have grown to cover the entire planter with flowers that trail to the ground.

I am taking your good advice to enjoy each day as if it might be my last. Spend it with appreciation and gratitude.

manthou — July 24, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 8:21 a.m.
So you have been bringing this up daily for weeks, because I didn't look at the charts and graphs you wanted me to. I hate to be the one to break this to you but you're not that important.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 7:20 a.m.

I find your Goebbels quote quite ironic, as it was you that recently insisted that Fox should be removed from the airways for disagreeing with you.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 8:46-We are all important fro. That's what it is all about. You are so blinded by your ideology, and noticeably frustrated that you are not able to articulate your views coherently, that you neglect the reason why we have a constitution. You brought up Goebbels the other day. Read Allen's post and line it up with what makes the tea party tick!

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @ 7:18-7:20...Excellent post and thank you for reminding us of the abyss the Republicans are trying to spiral our country into. A much needed post! One could write "tea party republicanism" after each paragraph!

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:15 a.m.

One could just as easily write democrat at the end of each paragraph.

It was afterall Clinton that said "the purpose of government is to reign in the rights of the people."

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


NO fraubert. You are wrong. You continually take issues and statements out of context to sway your biased views. As a result your arguments lack merit and aren't taken seriously.

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It was you that that informed us Dan Quayle is a Rhodes Scholar...LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 9:35 a.m.

You said
"But there is a law, known as the RICCO law, that just might apply to the unfair, and unbalanced Faux Noise."

Are you now claiming that was not advocating government control of media?

Someone is not lying just because you disagree with them.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 10:54 a.m

Are you suggesting that Government or customers hold them to a higher standard?
frobert — July 19, 2011 at 7:29 a.m.

frobert — July 19, 2011 at 7:29 a.m. Does it matter who does it, as long as it's done?
Allen — July 19, 2011 at 10:25 a.m.

It does matter the first amendment is alive and well in this country (or at least I hope so) If you are advocating their customers holding them accountable, I can get behind that, if however you are advocating government intervention, that would be a dangerous precedent.
frobert — July 19, 2011 at 10:30 a.m.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 24, 2011 at 9:25 a.m

I'd really, really like to see the primary source for that.

You know, the vid, the newspaper.....

Not freep, et al...

mr_basil_seal — July 24, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 24, 2011 at 11:07 a.m

After checking, I have to admit that came from a seriously edited text of an interview, therefore not a credible source.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, your garden sounds wonderful...and peaceful. I like your idea about the topsy turvy tomato planter. I have an older one that I was ready to toss. Nasturtiums are wonderful in salads and would be a great color accent in my garden for next year. Thanks for sharing.

And I hope the Columbian takes you up on your great idea! It would be nice to share community garden ideas and just "stuff" which involves all of us in a more proactive manner and allow those who wish to "discuss" (if that's what you want to call it) political views. More and more each day, I notice how unfriendly it is becoming in this forum which is quite discouraging. As it stands now...I'm in the mood just to avoid the C as long as this battle of who's right and who's not continues.

Whatever happened to respecting the opinions of each other? I'd be thinking that away from the C...those caught up in this "I'm right-you're wrong" hormone game would be similar to gang wars on the street but instead of weapons to attack each other physically, they are choosing weapons of words and it's definitely getting on the mean-spirited side. Sheesh!!!

goldenoldie — July 24, 2011 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lots of sirens heading out in the direction of Yacolt from Battle Ground today. Could be wrecks on 503 or problems all the way out to Merwin. Regardless, people are not being careful

Please be careful out there.

hawkeye — July 24, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- The wife and I spent the afternoon driving all around the Merwin area then drove up to Lava Canyon. We just got back around a half hour ago. We were lucky it sounds like and didn't hear any sirens or see any emergency vehicles. Man is it beautiful up there! This weather's great!

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The POS that gunned down so many youth in Norway wanted to rid society of "cultural Marxists" and stop the spread of Islam. I couldn't help but think of the nut jobs that have posted here in the past and a couple now, i.e. menlo, the clown and several others that refuse to debate issues on merit and what's best for our country. Many times myself and others that disagree with this fanatical attempt of right wing cultural extremism that is being inflicted upon us are called "marxist"....or "communist" because our beliefs encompass a sense of fairness for all and not a select few based on income, race, ethnicity, etc. Somehow the self serving few that have much of the wealth coalesce with a faction of the self absorbed middle class, and tout extreme right wing talking points that give sanctuary to racism, elitism...and herald media pundits as some sort of savior's or prophets. Egotists who can't fill the room with enough white elephants to distract folks who disagree. These people tend to view politics as a game to be won or lost rather than a conduit for American successes, as well as a communicative segue to build up American prosperity...in all walks of life. These people need to leave government.

Puffed up souls that believe the common good is evil. The fanatic in Norway waged his own type of "war" against so called "Cultural Marxists". Perhaps this will wake a few up on the right to not only choose their words a little differently...but understand the meaning behind them.

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 6:37 p.m.

You talk a lot about conservative hate, and seem to feel justified using the actions of a sick man to promote hate against conservatives. If as you say you deplore hate, and are committed to end it, stop your hate rhetoric. I in return will attempt to use more caution with my verbiage.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobro...given your over the top remarks to include your disingenuous 9:25 post to Dan "Rhodes Scholar" Quayle...you make it difficult to reasonably dialog. I'm sorry if you deem this remark to be "hateful" because it represents an opinion contrary to yours. It sounds as though you are feeling victimized. Perhaps if you had a clearer picture and a bit more defining sense of self awareness and what honest debate is, maybe you wouldn't feel the need to broker a deal concerning your own guidelines on civility.

Since you referenced my 6:37 post @ 7:53 as "promoting hate against conservatives"......

Please cite your example.

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 8 p.m.

More hate rhetoric?

McVeigh claimed to be an agnostic until right before his execution,
Kaczynski is an athiest and a self proclaimed leftist.
Loughner is a left leaning independent and an athiest,
Oswald was a communist and an athiest.

You can't blame crazy on a political ideology, doing so is just promoting hate.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:27 p.m.

That's okay I was sure you couldn't do it anyway, I however will not promote hate towards those that disagree with me.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


FroooOOOOO.....you accused me of promoting hate against conservatives in my 6:37 post...

Now cite the example. To make an inflammatory false statement is one thing.....

Not to own up to it when the proof is a scroll away is .... comical.....trying to constrain myself ...........

oh what the hell... LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!

Unless you think referencing the mass murdering religious conservative as POS to be hate...

........lol.....ooooooo....man.

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 9:44 p.m.

I stand by my opinion of your statement, no I will not defend it or argue with you, anybody can read your statement and decide for themselves.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!!! LOL!!! I find you in...CONtempt!!! LOL!!! I sentence you to spend 2 minutes with bobbo the clown!...if bobbo can last that long. LOL!!!

nailingit — July 24, 2011 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 24, 2011 at 9:53 p.m.

My only agenda is that the constitution should be strictly adheared to. As far as what you said, I will not argue, it is possible that I misunderstood your intent, I will leave that up to the other readers.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I will not argue, ***it is possible that I misunderstood your intent***, I will leave that up to the other readers.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 10:17 p.m.

Yup, ya did !!!! Seems like you've been doing that a lot lately. Maybe you should read others posts twice before responding.

hawkeye — July 24, 2011 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 24, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.

I wouldn't have expected an objective point of view from you anyway.

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If one makes a statement they should either stand by it or admit their mistake. More commonplace seems to be the Clinton defense.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.

Bill Clinton

frobert — July 24, 2011 at 11:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 24, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.

Thank you for 'manning up' to your error; even if your excuse is only halfway true.

My hope is that you realize one's thinking is only as good as the resources being used to inform that thinking.

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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