Open Forum, July 25-31

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Most Read Stories on Columbian.com July 17-23:

No. 1) One killed, five injured in collision with cement truck

No. 2) Vancouver boy, 11, drowns near Lacamas Lake

No. 3) Vancouver man involved in fatal crash

No. 4) Houseboat mired in river, limbo

No. 5) I-205 crash sends one person to hospital

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533 comments

Comments

It should be obvious to the entire world now how the Republicans and Democrats don't play well together. In fact, they hate each other so much they are willing to bring the country to the brink of financial insolvency just to impress their constituents. Look at the continued polarizing, blame game playing comments that continue to dominate all of cyberspace. We have learned nothing...religion and politics are the source of all division.

mangoboy — July 25, 2011 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just got done reading the headlines and wanted to make a comment about the climber who died while rappelling the south side of Beacon Rock. Yesterday, a relative of mine was coming home from a reunion as they passed Beacon Rock on Hwy 14. The entire parking lot was closed off with police tape and an ambulance with crew members and rescue workers were standing around. My relative knew something terrible had happened and it didn't look to be too good of a situation with regards to any victim(s). Now to find out the 30-year-old gentleman died of his injuries...

My heart aches for the family and friends of the climber and my prayers pour out to them, hoping they will find comfort in knowing he passed doing what he enjoyed. He is at peace.

goldenoldie — July 25, 2011 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


allycat, *So far, the most radicalized are the mentally ill and religious fringe bigots as we have seen by the contemporary mass murders.*

I'd point out that the way you are using "most radicalized" is only looking at a small -though well publicized - subgroup of those not in the mainstream.

Just as a teabag party of less than 50 participants gets more airtime than a progressive meeting in front of a local rep's office.

There are many fairly radical groups - stateless, anarchist, socialist, objectivist, etc -with the rhetorical chops to write based on at least some logic.

And it is a shame to lump them under some "most radicalized" title with those who are obviously needing medical care.

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal



goldenoldie @ 7:37 am: I hope your kind and compassionate words will be seen by the family of the young rock climber who lost his life yesterday. They remind me of how important it is to take the time to reach out to others in times of tragedy.

mangoboy@ 6:42 am: I agree with your post 100%. I am furious with the game playing and pandering to extremist constituents who think this debt ceiling crisis is a game. I wrote Jaime Herrera Buetler to explain my disappointment, although they have her by the short hairs, as well.

In reviewing what Wall Street is doing in response to this deadlock this morning, I found this quote by an investment officer named David Kotok:

"The single best insurance we have is the wrath of the American citizen."

So, how angry are we?

manthou — July 25, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy: I must add this, though: I know that the Republicans do not want our president to be successful at any cost. This tactic is backfiring for them and our country is suffering greatly for it.

Whomever was chosen by the people to run our country: I want them to be successful! I was not a fan of GW Bush, but I gave him the respect the office deserves and wished him health, wisdom, and courage every day. Lives depend on legislators working together to keep the country safe and running.

manthou — July 25, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @ 8:43 am: Excellent link! Everyone should give it a gander!

manthou — July 25, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Right you are manthou, it is not a competition. It isn't but should be a collaborative effort to make things better for EVERYONE. There needs to be give and take in all aspects of life as well as government and we need people responsible enough to make those decisions for us. Evidently that isn't working for us right now so when we have the chance to get rid of those "game players", that is exactly what we need to do. I just hope everyone remembers what is happening right now when it comes to making those decisions again. I truly hope the people in Ohio are not blind to what their representative is doing with their lives and the lives of everyone in the U.S.

hawkeye — July 25, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


....I was just thinking how financial problems can weigh heavily on marriage and relationships. It isn't right that a select few politicians are causing this much grief and uncertainty. The relations between constituents and our elected are sullied in yet a different way this cycle. Let's remember this act of "domestic violence"* at the polls in 2012. This is a game to many, to be won or lost...we need to remember which party is causing this grief...and not lump it in with "both parties are responsible" rhetoric.

*Not to take away from the serious problems we face with Domestic Violence.

nailingit — July 25, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I had a blast visiting with my ol' navy buddies over the weekend. Now it's back to the trenches!

Before I split Friday I emailed one sitting city councilperson and two folks running for a council position. I asked the council person why they voted in favor of the "cannabis collective garden" moratorium. The response was they did so on the advice of the City Attorney. When the time comes, I don't believe I'll be voting for this incumbant. I got the feeling they hadn't any idea -what- they voted on, merely that they did so upon recommendation. 'Course I haven't the foggiest on what the City Attorney passed on to the council. Still...

I got a mail back from one of the candidates. This individual stated they were in favor of the moratorium. We exchange a couple of communications and by the time it was done I do believe they are reconsidering their opinion.

If I don't recieve anything from the other candidate, in the next few days, I'll scratch them off my list.

Today I'll begin drafting my letter to the council, the commissioners and the City Attorney. They all appear to be ignorant of the intent of sections 403 and 1102 in the New Medicinal Cannabis Law. Education is key here. I'm here to help (heh).

Happy Monday to all!

Drift — July 25, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- An honor to have the civility czar weigh in this morning! I believe many will switch their insurance providers in the coming year. The policies provided just aren't cuttin' it.

nailingit — July 25, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift,

I like your approach, quite the antithesis of how David M. attempts to influence.

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Seal,

Hmm, interesting. I had no idea Dave was that "active." I'm beginning to see his name pop up here and there.

What I also find interesting is, you are apparently aware Dave and I know one another. Provided, of course, we both are speaking of the same David M..

Small world (smiley here)

I'm a bit ignorant of the legislative method. I was thinking E2SSB 5073 would be melded with 69.51a. I'm thinking it must be. I don't see the "new" 69 on the State Legislature site though. Oh well, I'll have to refer to the bill (rather than 69) in my letters. I surely hope that doesn't create MORE confusion! (heh).

Drift — July 25, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


D. Madore
http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/oc...

"I'm a bit ignorant of the legislative method."

Oftentimes when I'm trying to figure out what's going on either in city, county, state, or federal legislatures I feel a bit like a HS club member who doesn't know all the ins-n-outs of Robert's Rules of Order but have a pretty good idea that all to often those who invoke the sub section of a sub section of a subsection aren't doing it so much for 'order' but purpose.

Again, thank you for your efforts.

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"D. Madore http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/oc..."

Well, poop! I'm not ignorant, I'm an idiot! Heh. A different David than the one I was thinking of (obviously).

I was going to say that my efforts are a bit self-serving, then I remembered I really don't have a dog in this hunt. The current moratorium doesn't affect me directly.

You're welcome.
(I'm a bit humbled by your thanks)

Drift — July 25, 2011 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat:

Here is some good reading.. I'm not buying what your spewing but I think everyone should have an opinion and I respect yours..

Manthou, Some very good words to live by...Like those comments allott.. You don't have to like the person but you should respect the person.. That goes for everyone...

On the insurance side... The current plan doesn't come even close to cutting costs for the average or above average JO! In fact the current plan will cost taxpayers more and provide less.. Have you compared your current or non existing plan to the one the administration forced upon the American Public..?? Figure out those costs and comeback with some educated responses...

Check this article out...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465843244525786.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


from your source: "In June, the President dispatched Joe Biden to negotiate spending cuts, only to have the White House insist at the last minute that modest trims be accompanied by significant new taxes. Mr. Boehner and the Senate's bipartisan Gang of Six produced plans that would have acceded to that White House demand in exchange for substantive tax reform that would have lowered individual and corporate rates. "

Now, take out the rhetoric and see where that put us..

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal



How many of you know about the State Dept.'s proposed private army?

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/17/136357821/as-u-s-military-exits-iraq-contractors-to-enter

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

In future decades, when rising health costs with an aging population hit the budget in full force, deficits are projected to be far deeper than they are now. Effective health care reform, and a willingness to pay more taxes, will be the biggest factors in controlling those deficits.

I thought most people are against raising taxes except on the most wealthiest and non paying corporations..I'm all for fair taxing and taxing on companies that are currently not paying.. But paying a more significant amount in taxes for me, I would oopose that..

On top of this more of these individuals saved less for retirement then there fathers thus becoming a larger burden on the rest of us, hoping and thinking Government would be there to help.

Idealouges are People who think like that and are never ever reasonable when it comes to facts, which is why they call them "ideologues".. I'm not an "IDEALOGUE" I leave that to others... I use reasoning and right side to enhance my left side thinking an to have an understanding of the Big Picture...

I don't beleive some of the pundunts who think the US is coming to an end. We have safeguards put in place which is one benefit of our form of government.. However we do need strong leadership which is where we currently are falling down.. Our president came into office promising the world.."CHANGE" and pushing everthing down our perverbial throats. see that wasn't reaching accross the isle or working to create better working relations between parties, no it was one big flush...Thats why I didn't vote for him.. he had no experience...ZERO.. And it shows.. he had no foreign policy experience and no experience reaching accross the isle during his short 1.5 yrs in congress either.. Was our alternatives any better..

Bottom line is we need leadership to move us back to being the greatest country in the world... And lets get out of both Iraq and Afganistan.. another promise not delivered upon...I know promises are made to be broken...

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 25, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.

Left, right, zealot or atheist, none of them have a monopoly on crazy.

frobert — July 25, 2011 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 12:43 p.m
*But paying a more significant amount in taxes for me, I would oopose that..*

What tax increase proposal would have you paying "a more significant amount "?

Closing the loopholes on business taxes?
Ending the Bush taxes that were extended past their sunset?
Changing the capital gains taxes?

And, if that "a more significant amount " is a return to a previous level, what did you do with the savings that were designed to boost business and economy?

" more of these individuals saved less for retirement then there fathers "

You would do well to research "income stagnation" a prime reason for more people needing the safety net of SS and other programs.

"Idealouges are People who think like that and are never ever reasonable when it comes to facts,"

Bring us the facts that support your case.....

A good place to start would be : "We have safeguards put in place"

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 25, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.

There are a couple of good articles showing who he cribbed from.

Well, not exactly cribbed; he cites many of them.......

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


eh Alley,
I lived in Germany during those days. Bader Meinhof gang was nothing more than idiotic stupid anarchists with really no stated goals. They really had none except anarchy, trust me. They were NOT a response by people to any politics or economics of the time. They had no followers besides themselves. I even remember when they were on trial and put in jail as that was all the news we heard all day long over there. And I even remember the day one of them croaked when hunger strike went on too long. They killed and spread fear but they were still a very small group of killers with no following. So will we see a few nutty idiots doing this? Like the nutcase in Norway? Maybe and I fervently hope not. Will the rest of us follow? Nope. We might all be sheep and sit silently through this destruction of the country, but I do not think we will all turn into anarchists. Or did I misunderstand your post?

luvithere — July 25, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,
You are right, if you tax these corporations they'll just pass it down to you and I the form of price hikes.. Then more people who couldn't afford some of the products in the first place will have even less money to purchase with.. It's nice to see your thinking more clearly now..I knew there was hope...

So by yor last comment we are done with both parties means you think that Socialism is just around the corner..

Remember though when the governement runs out of money to take care of everyone then that scialized governement =becomes a dictatorship...

Oh the safeguards are the democratic type of government we have. the reason it isn't working so smoothly is we have a President who wants to "CHANGE" that type of government...Now I think you can wrap your brain around that easily enough....

The present folks in office need to stop blaming the previous administrations and lead us..Or get out..

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtside...you chose not to vote for Obama based on his lack of experience. Is that to say you voted for the McCain/Palin ticket using the same standard? Would you feel more secure if McCain/Palin were handling matters foreign? Don't you think the political climate of extreme partisanship was already in play before the election? If his lack of experience in foreign affairs kicked your decision...did you vote for Bush?

Sometimes lack of experience is much preferred over those with "experience", depending on what the experience is. Although it would make conducting war without reason a bit more challenging. Cheaney has lots of experience and we the American people are not paying the largest price for it. The tens and hundreds of thousand of civilians in Iraq are, having generations of human beings from their populace wiped off from the face of the planet. So much for the "experience" factor, when the experiences are horrific. The most astounding election in my lifetime was in 2004.

Swift boating an American hero running for President...to once again elect the most damaging president in US history...

...but hey...GW had lots of experience.

nailingit — July 25, 2011 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok, I can totally agree with your last point, every word, Alley. Big country of ours, lots of fringers possible.
I really do wish normal everyday people would finally stand up and say enough. Peacefully naturally, but stand up.

luvithere — July 25, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit,

you took the bait I so carefully threaded onto my hook...I did vote for the republican ticket, yes Sir..

I do agree with your one concept of experience.. Very true, somtimes alittle is better than allott depending on the experience..You see Mccain has been able to reach accross the isle and get things done..

He is against abortions. (no need to get into it)

He is for middle class tax cuts. (not raising taxes on the wealthily) I like this because the wealthy are the spending class of this country.. He also is able to dole out a lot of money to charities. He does all this and still lives under his means.

He is for extending the "no child left behind act". Works pretty well in most states.

Is for giving the government more domestic surveillance power. You call it big brother i call it big protector. By the way they are making legal what they are already doing and have done for decades.

Protects our right to own a gun. I personally don't have a gun. People kill people not guns.

Supports cutting funding to sanctuary cities. ie : The city accross the river from us..

Opposes medical marijuana.

Does not support a increase in minimum wage.. Hurts small and large bsuinesses alike

As for the VP... I think she is pretty and just like our local girl JHB.. Can i say here today ...Would we be better off.. I can't tell you that,, But I can tell you we wouldn't be as worse off...

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtside...bait? LOL just discourse. John McCain? Resolved on any one position??? LOL!

You're not an Ideologue? Perhaps this election you can work hard to put Michele Bachman in the White House after the failed attempt with Sarah...

wow....just wow.

On the subject matter....Bachman or Obama for Pres if you had to pick. Which one?

nailingit — July 25, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 2:03 p.m.

How can anybody be conservative and then support expansive governmental powers such as domestic surveillance and cannabis restrictions?

frobert — July 25, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


^^^...this guy is too ashamed to answer the same question as fro's been asked before...

nailingit — July 25, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 2:03 p.m

Haaaaaa, Haaaaaaa, Haaaaaaa...... OK, you got me. Really funny stuff.

Wait, you're serious?

Dude, you really are screwed up, aren't you.

hawkeye — July 25, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley,

It's Dudette first of all and secondly I will not vote for more of the same that we got in 2008 from the current President. He took most of you for a ride with his slick smile and SLICK WILLY sense of comedy.... What is hard to do is except that you made a Huge mistake by voting for him...That's the single most difficultb thing for us humans to do is admit I made a mistake... I see it on here all the time with our current Mayor.. You all sing and spew the same hatred of him as you do the republican party...

But to answer your question. I will not vote for our current sitting president. I may not even vote for a republican nominee. I will wait and see who is on the ballot prior to that decision..

Again I see it's a waste of time when speaking with Idealouges with the ilk that is on here. It would also be nice to see you following the guidleines set forth by the C... You see when you fail to work within the guidelines you become well, a pack mentality and you try to use Force, like all caps and bold wording and words like Dummy or other insulting words.. You see one can't have a conversation with people like this because they are close minded.. Now if the President said to jump off a cliff with the rest of your friends , would you do that..

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.

I am conservative and my question was valid, how can you reconcile conservatism with expanding governmental powers?

frobert — July 25, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.
Nice little diatribe, but I notice you don't address any of the points brought up.

What you see as a 'pack mentality' might just be reflective of the fact that ~ 50 percent of the US population are left of center. We few liberals on this forum don't lump you with frobert , et al. Please do the same.

And if you have a serious concern about guidelines not being met, copy paste and send them to Web Editor Libby Tucker, libby.tucker@columbian.com, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski, matt.wastradowski@columbian.com.

It doesn't take any more effort to be proactive about issues than to whing on and try to make it part of your argument.

mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 25, 2011 at 5:42 p.m

I have to disagree with part of your statement, I agree that you seem to know the difference, however some on here cannot differentiate between, a social conservative and a libertarian.

frobert — July 25, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley,

Thanks :).... I agree as well...

Fro- Let me ponder some on that as it is very complicated..I will get back with you on my thoughts..

Basil-- What do you consider left of center.. "WHAT IS CENTR" Hasn't the new center switched??? Of the 25-30 some odd friends I have that share the same business interests, very few are considered left of center.... I guess thats because we are in business.. We don't go around wearing white hoods or other atire that would make us stand out in the crowd..

What we would like to do is maybe get a new computer sytem with a small business loan, but wait, no bank wants to loan small business money and certainly none since 2008. Any purchase we need a loan on has pretty much gone unanswered... I don't want to rant about wow is me in small business, I'll leave that for another day...I would also say most of agree a new bridge is a good idea. We know how it will affect our bottom line which will be significantly by at least 4%-8% at first and even more as the years go bye...That percentage will be the amount we make or don't make money in a given year...

rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK Dudette, I'm not going to rag on you right now, you're just getting your feet wet here so, well you know.

I will, however, ask you what kind of computer you are looking for that you would need a business loan for? What exactly are you looking for and what kind of software do you need? Now is the time to get one because of back to school sales and "computer year end" sales. I'd be more than happy to help you find one at the best deal. If you have specs, I can find you a good price.

hawkeye — July 25, 2011 at 9:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Folks...it's beginning. I'm sorry to sound prejudiced but dammit!!! These people don't have permission to be in the United States yet California is giving them the royal red carpet treatment to train in our educating facilities while folks who are bonified US Citizens and LEGAL residents are having to wait in line in order to gain funding for their extended education when they could easily have received the very same scholarships. What's next??? Health Care??? Oh wait...they've already got that one! Hopefully what happens in California...STAYS in California.

long, long, long sigh of frustration.....

http://news.yahoo.com/california-dream-act-approved-illegal-immigrants-013617230.html

My favorite quote in the article for the ignorant ones who think this will stop them from gaining employment:

"""Critics say the California Dream Act gives illegal immigrants a false promise because their status will not change after graduating from college and they will remain unable to find legal employment."""

Hell, it's never stopped them from gaining employment in the US before!!!

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 25, 2011 at 6:10 p.m.

*Basil-- What do you consider left of center.. "WHAT IS CENTR" Hasn't the new center switched???*

i imagine a word like 'moved' is more accurate than "switched"...

But I'm not entirely sure there has been a move either. We still have the 'orig founding fathers' intent' Constitutionalism with their misreading; there is still a far left. If there is any 'move', it would have been a slow one to the right - and that would have started post-Johnson/Kennedy.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*bonified US Citizens and LEGAL residents are having to wait in line in order to gain funding*

You are sounding a bit like ol' Kendall...

Private scholarship monies; not gov't money.

Additional money, not wrested away from 'bonified US Citizens and LEGAL residents"

And it is for kids. Who had little or no choice in whether they came here or not.

An analogy would be not treating the kid born from an addicted mother because you don't like the drug.

And of course, what we are looking at is a way to solve one of the many problems caused by a plutocratic gov't and the resulting catering to business that are addicted to the cheap labor drug.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


California's Dream Act:

According to an AP article, "California’s community college and public universities systems support the bill, noting that it affects less than 1 percent of their student population. According to the University of California, fewer than 80 students across its system of more than 220,000 students would be affected by the bill signed Monday.

The California State University estimated that some of the 3,600 students who have permission to pay in-state tuition rates even though they lack legal documentation could be affected by the new law. The CSU system enrolls about 440,000 students."

Children of undocumented workers are offered access to a free and appropriate elementary and secondary education in the US and are protected by law to this. Offering the opportunity to apply for private scholarships for those attending post secondary schools is good policy.

While there are compelling political reasons for Jerry Brown's endorsement of this bill (Latinos are a growing, strong and influential voting block), it is the ethical thing to do: make higher education more affordable to all young people who qualify. We ALL benefit from an educated population.

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 6:55 a.m.
" We still have the 'orig founding fathers' intent' Constitutionalism with their misreading"

From my point of view you have those that believe in the constitution and the deniers, whose only argument seems to be "the government does it so it's legal".

frobert — July 26, 2011 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 26, 2011 at 8:25 a.m.

*whose only argument seems to be*

I'd say two plus centuries of of jurisprudence is rather an odd way to say " "the government does it "

And if one were to " believe in the constitution ", then one would best to "believe" in all of it. Not just the parts - such as states' rights - that fit the rest of one's philosophical schema.

And that Constitution does give the federal government the power to exercise control beyond what was traditional two plus centuries ago.

Hence, national tire standards.

Hence, sending men to the moon.

Hence, water safety standards.

Hence, a Library of Congress.

Hence, purchasing land from foreign countries.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 26, 2011 at 7:39 a.m.

*We ALL benefit from an educated population.*

Plus 1!

though there are some that would prefer not to have a well informed populace.

ALEC is one example.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: The American Legislative Exchange Council, for sure, would like to keep us all under or ill-informed by promoting misinformation and lies of omission. The less we ask, the less we research, the stronger they get.

Speaking of informed, did any one else notice that the president significantly dumbed down his speech last night? It was as if he were addressing a classroom full of fifth graders, no THIRD graders.

He certainly simplified a very complicated issue using language and concepts that anyone with an IQ over 75 could comprehend. Maybe that was necessary to reach the opposition? I doubt he is going to change minds, even if he uses crayons and nursery rhymes. :(

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 8:39 a.m.

We do not have two centuries plus of jurisprudence, common government practices are overruled by the Supreme Court in just about every session. Roe, Miranda and McDonald, overturned centuries of governmental overstepping. The Supreme Court has ruled over 1300 laws unconstitutional. Just because something has never been ruled on doesn't mean it is constitutional.

I support the entire constitution, and all amendments. I also support all rights, as outlined in the bill of rights.

frobert — July 26, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We should enact the dream act at the federal level, and not starve the children of education and healthcare. Black, white, brown red pink purple blue......when the crap rolls downhill...our* children seem to always take the hit. The dream Act was championed from both sides of the aisle before Obama was elected.

It's hard to imagine why some are opposed to the California act. It's privately funded. I don't mean to pile on to oppose goldenoldies statement, but I've been in favor of the Dream Act for a number of years. The hispanic community plays a big part in fighting our wars....both documented and those earning citizenship. I've been fortunate to work with many hispanic soldiers and their families over the years. To treat them less than is....unamerican. We think nothing of placing mexicans in front of a .50 cal...but when it comes to health and education for their children...

*our children are part of the human race. Let's do our best to take care of them.

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 26, 2011 at 9:07 a.m

He did that so Boehner could finally understand what he was saying because so far it hasn't sunk in very well.

hawkeye — July 26, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I doubt he is going to change minds, even if he uses crayon and nursery rhymes".

I'm afraid you are right manthou.....short of funding mandatory lobotomies.

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 9:22 am: Well-said! A society that takes care of all children is a healthy, strong one. It is distasteful to me to promote a "lower class" system that denies educational opportunites to young people, simply because their parents are employed (by many big US industries) as undocumented workers. The students had to apply to college and make the cut. They will have to apply for these private scholarships, too, and earn them. Not all private scholarships are open to all students.

hawkeye @ 9:30 am: LOL!

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Misssster Basil Seal: First of all, I do not sound like Kendall. I speak for M-Y-S-E-L-F, thank you very much! Any reference of comparison to someone you know DAMNED well I do not share in equal discussion OR equal mindset is strictly a direct hit of prejudice by you, Sir. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that your posts have stooped down to the level of ignorant pot shots at others who disagree with you lately.

Secondly. You can mark my words that when the scholarships and promoting of those who are here illegally... and their relatives in the other nations catch wind of this information back home... the United States of America will have an even BIGGER issue of border crossings with undocumented immigrants, and a direct hit to our healthcare and government assistance programs which will further tax the CITIZENS and LEGAL RESIDENTS of our nation.

You can ask me to provide proof, show data...whatever, sir. I've made a statement and I'm sticking to it. About 5 years down the road if we're still on the C posting, you can remember this comment and review the stats...that is, if we haven't become the American Union by that point which I believe this is step one for that process as well! Care to buy Amero Dollars, Basil???

If it's all fired important for these illegals to get a college education, they can go about it the legal way from their country of origin...establishing an education visa, get their diploma or degree and either return to their country of origin, apply for permanent residency or go BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY to get their education AT HOME!!!

None of you...YES - NONE OF YOU (and I am BURNING ANGRY and disgusted)...have to agree with me. I do not expect you to...but if individuals like Mister Basil Seal have to resort to ignorant pot shots at me because I have expressed my given right as a LEGAL US citizen, born and raised here...

well, you know what "H"ot spot you can go live!!!

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...I have one comment to you and that is with regards to your post at 9:41 am. If the student knows they are undocumented or even just finds out they are undocumented as has been the case, there there are charitable organizations which can direct them to achieve the right path in order to gain the education. We cannot afford to educate undocumented students, let alone educate those who do not have a questionable history.

Good Lord, girl...haven't you seen what is happening in California alone in their College education system??? It's happening everywhere!!!

The cost of education is skyrocketing. Even Clark just had another increase on the cost per credit hour!!!

http://www.highereducation.org/reports/losing_ground/ar2.shtml

http://www.usstudents.org/Members/tim/community-college-tuition-rises-as-family-income-falls

Just google "tuition hikes" and you'll see what I speak of. College after college is reporting the same thing..

Oh people...can't you see yet that our children of the United States of America who are seeking an education will be forced out of the programs in order to allow those from other nations who are undocumented and cannot vote to make right decisions to better our nation? Can't you see the financial pressure it is putting on all of us here??? Programs are being cut and teachers are facing layoffs...and the quality of a good college education is diminishing as we speak.

I'm not trying to deny accessibility, but in times like our current economic status...we need to educate our nation's children (including children of permanent residents) before we take on the task of teaching the children of other nations who aren't documented. That's all I'm trying to say to you.

If I'm wrong...so be it. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!....someone needs a vacation! I was just reading some quotes on immigration from Glenn Beck....wow..just wow. It's sad but not hard to understand how so many buy into those that spew hate when it comes to this subject matter. Their minds are already stunted with prejudice, and their ego's can't see beyond themselves. They tend to approach immigration with the same attitude as they approach civil rights.

".......or go BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY...".......i.e.

Maybe throughout the day when I can I'll provide right wing racist quotes to include Glenn Beck, so we can have a better understanding of the thought that drives folks like goldenoldie.

Sometimes people buy into something not knowing what they are getting into.

Most of the time folks know exactly what their into and embrace it like a familiar old friend.

...don't mean to start a 'wildfire'...it was already ablaze with "burning anger".

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 10:08 a.m.

Please note I did not compare you to K. Just one of your ideas. Note really 'your' idea, but a meme that is based in bigotry and discrimination. You can do better, you've shown that many times.

I'll stick with the comparison of your comments on the Calif Dream Act to those of Kendall's claims about what the WA version would do.

Remember, he made very similar claims to what you have just done in your reply.

And remember, he couldn't come up with a singe piece of evidence.

Yup, college is expensive, so is no college. It has gone up. Yup, I paid for most of mine with cash from Work Study jobs.

Now, let's review where college funding has gone.

And, as the report noted, the ## of children that the Dream act in Calif will help is a very small, but very needful, part of the population.

And part, a large part, of the reason is due to our labor laws and their enactment through the often Machiavellian work of organizations like ALEC, et al.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, the first thing I want to say is thank you for not throwing insults into your discussion as has been the case by some other(s) on the forum. I do have to say that in essence, you don't technically disagree with me but in fact, you bring up what the biggest part of the problem is right now and that is a misappropriation of funding for the needs of our nation and I agree with you; but the fact of the matter is that as long as our nation is being directed in a manner not consistent with bettering our economic situation and the lifestyle of each and every individual on US Soil...certain programs SHOULD be put on hold and extra consideration SHOULD be taken before continuing down that pathway. Till the appropriate changes are made...it should be US Citizens, then legal residents, then those with educational visas. I still have issues with those here without proper documentation attending the universities and colleges in which taxpayers must pay into and I still won't change my mind on that. They must have proper documentation showing they deserve the right to a college education as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The Supreme Court has ruled over 1300 laws unconstitutional.*

That means that particular law had something that that court found did not meet the majority's understanding of the Constitution.

Now, often the court revisits and rules differently. You fail to mention that.

Often the ruling is 5/4 so not a strong indication of right or wrong. One presidential appointment could well have changed the vote.

And often, as was the case in you last weeks' example, Congress returns to the issue and passes and the President signs a new version that fits to the Constitutional standard.

And 1.3K over 200 plus years of jurisprudence really isn't proof of your contention when you look at how many don't get ruled unconstitutional.

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


""You are sounding a bit like ol' Kendall...""

Your words, Basil. Sorry sir, but that's a huge insult and a pot shot in my book and you danged well know it.

Further...what is said in a news article as a statement by an entity who cannot even keep out of the red and is doing whatever they can to keep from shutting down like what happened in Minnesota is just about as credible as saying 1995 stats on traffic on I-5 is reason enough to implement light rail to reduce traffic flow. Any way they can get votes in a majority population with an upcoming election year...they will do it and THAT's what it's all about, sir.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie - I certainly agree! There are agencies and foundations that can direct a person toward the path to legal citizenship. Let them use it, and educate our legal children first! My option would be to fine the H out of employers that hire these people in the first place. Put that funding in a special pot to support border patrol, and we could cut the debt!

See you all at the rally - Howard House, Officer's Row - 12:00 noon!

Mrs_T — July 26, 2011 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 10:51 a.m.

By calling into question 5/4 rulings your further prove my point. This calls into question most if not all of the new deal rulings which is the basis of our subsequent unchecked governmental expansion.

frobert — July 26, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


go....your last sentence @ 10:53 is not true. There are reasons that concern human rights and equality involved. Wasn't that part of the rational in opposing civil rights from a few?

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, care to explain further in how my last sentence at 10:53 is not true? You are right that there are reasons that concern human rights and equality involved but when the rights of those who are here legally are stepped on by those who are not...

where's the equality?

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you, Mrs T.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T...what is a "legal" child anyway? Looking up definitions I certainly can't define it in the context in which you used it.

What if their Mom or Dad was KIA while fighting for American freedoms? Which is not uncommon. Imagine being denied an education and citizenship from a country in which your mother/father died protecting.

This is a human condition as well as a legal one. Let's quit putting kids on the battle front!

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 11:12....No. If you don't get it now with what's been said then you won't get it with further explanation. American citizens rights are not being "stepped on" in this situation...but you know that.

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 26, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. (

*By calling into question 5/4 rulings your further prove my point. This calls into question most if not all of the new deal rulings which is the basis of our subsequent unchecked governmental expansion.*

"unchecked"? How many of your 1.3K rulings were post New Deal?

Or would a relative lack of ruling on New Deal type legislation show the weakness of your point?

mr_basil_seal — July 26, 2011 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - I happen to support citizenship for any that sign on to fight for our freedoms. That would include their children. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other. That is what's wrong with our non-functioning gov't.

Mrs_T — July 26, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, as long as a pathway to a college education in a US college or university is opened for the illegals, it is stepping on the rights of citizens. It is quite a competitive college atmosphere, but you knew that, right???

Also, you might read this:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/military.html

Wouldn't it be the responsibility of those "parents" who joined the military to make sure their children were properly documented as well? If they're all gung ho on being US Military fighters to support the US, then the correct path to citizenship would ALSO include their children. That way, they'd be ensured benefits for their children.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs T., our government has too many irons in the fire right now. If they'd focus on the root of the problem rather than all the little branches leading from the trunk of the tree...

well, maybe I'm hoping for too much, lol.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just to inject a little off the subject, subject.

David Wu, quit. See what drugs will do to you?

And: Last night I got ticked off and fired off a letter to Ms. Jamie. I told her that she needed to start thinking on her own and doing what her constituents want her to do and quit playing "follow the leader" in respect to her "King of the House". I don't expect a response but I'm sure if I get one it will be the standard "thanks for your input".

hawkeye — July 26, 2011 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I threw no insults, goldie. I am expressing a point of view that comes with serving and educating children as a lifelong career.

I don't expect everyone to share my perspective. I follow what my heart and professional ethical guidelines demand: inclusive education for all children. In our country, it is the law, as well, for K-12.

I have seen school secretaries hammer parents to produce a US birth certificate (which violates Federal policy) just to make families squirm and prove their political point. I have seen teachers belittle English language learners, shaming and humiliating them as they struggle to understand a complicated concept.

I don't get enraged because someone expresses a differing opinion. I get enraged when innocent, promising, happy children are harassed and bullied by professionals sworn to educate and protect them.

Schools should be a safe place of learning for all.

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 26, 2011 at 11:41 a.m

I'm not being partisan as I'm sure it would be the same for a republican politician, but if the average citizen was accused of the same thing the press wouldn't be referring to it as an "aggressive unwanted sexual encounter".

frobert — July 26, 2011 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I wrote a letter, too, to JHB. She followed up with a boiler plate reply that did not directly address my concern. She actually wrote something like, "I agree that we need to........" My letter was not written because I agree with her. My husband is calling her office today.

Apparently, many of the US Congress websites were down due to high traffic volume yesterday.

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Pew said that the bursting of the housing market bubble in 2006 and the recession that followed took a far greater toll on the wealth of minorities than whites. It estimates that from 2005 to 2009, inflation-adjusted median wealth fell by 66% among Hispanic households and 53% among black households, compared with just 16% among white households."

Good news, fiscaltiger!!!!

mangoboy — July 26, 2011 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Back when I was aboard ship (USN '76-'79) there was a program where citizens of varying places (I almost wrote "territories", but I don't think the Philippines is a U.S. Territory(?)) could do an enlistment and automagically become a U.S. citizen.

The funny thing is, a lot of those folks made the navy a career! Heh.

Me? I figure if a foriegn individual is here legally, great! Have a good time. Here legally AND working toward citizenship,great! Good luck to ya! Here illegaly and working the program. Get down the ramp tramp.

Oops. I don't engage in these types of conversations, now do I?

Nope.

Drift — July 26, 2011 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*You can't be as dumb as Sarah Palin..* **ALLEYCAT**

Why have you concluded she's dumb? And please don't include misstatements, because we can point to so many from all politicians that it's a worthless data point.

DeeLittle — July 26, 2011 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"We can afford to educate, provide health and jobs for everyone."

Amen to that...its a matter of priorities. Take a look at the average square feet of a new home, the few that are being built.. 2000 sq ft?

A family of 5 can easily and comfortably live in a 1200 sq foot house, with four bedrooms, two baths, and a great room. Lower taxes. lower utilities. lower maintainance.

What about a one car household, with several high mileage, fun to drive scooters to supplement transportation options?

Public education-the 3 month summer vacation for kids should be obsolete. Home school for the entire summer if traditional summer school is not available, except for two or three weeks.

The middle class expectations of life in America are going to die a slow, agonizing death if people don't get a inkling...

mangoboy — July 26, 2011 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, my letter(s) to the commissioners, city council and the city attorney are waiting for tomorrow's outgoing mail. It's the same letter to all. Within, I attempt to clarify sections of 5073 (re: cannabis collective gardens moratorium(s)).

In the last paragraph I've invited each and all to drop by and chat. It freaks out That-Mean-Ol'-Woman-I've-Been-Shacked-up-With-All'a-These-Years* when I do that. We won't tell her, okay? I truly do wish someone would pop in. I'd love to have a one on one discussion. Even with Mike Cooke. Really.

I'll let ya all know what (and if) response(s) I get.

*25 or so years now.

Drift — July 26, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, off subject AGAIN.

I'm so pissed I can't see straight but here it goes.

I just came home from Fred Meyer and in front of me in the line is a guy about 50 ish with a couple of kids, dressed nice, slacks and designer t type shirt and they are buying chicken and steak fries and potato salad and a few other things from the deli and he says, "these don't have tax on them do they because I have an Oregon ID card". So he makes the girl re-ring the stuff to save him maybe 60 cents in tax and then goes out and jumps in a car with Washington plates on it.

***ARRRRRRRGGGG !!!!***

The State really needs to stop that free tax thing.

hawkeye — July 26, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


CNN reported Glenn Beck compared the dead children who were slaughtered in the recent attack in Norway to Hitler Youth! He denounced having politically affiliated camps for children.

CNN then reported that Glenn Beck has sponsored many right wing camps for kids with targeted right wing conservative themes and talking points!

Perhaps Glenn Beck should move to Norway......I'm sure the multitudes of grieving parents would love to spend some time with him.

alleycat..Well stated!!!

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


~If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come he made them out of meat?~

Sarah Palin from Going Rouge

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou: Regarding your post at 11:48 a.m, I didn't mean to make it sound like I felt I was insulted by your well-thought comments. I was merely pointing out my opinion regarding a segment of yours. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a great world when we can all agree to share our comments without the feeling of being insulted, prejudiced, talked down to or anything else of that matter, my friend. By now I'm sure you know that when I point out one section of a comment...it's usually because I care to discuss it further with you. At the time I felt it was good to step away from the computer for a few hours to clear my thoughts and think in a more positive manner. Good food for the soul...a nice cup of tea and quiet time - no TV, no computer, no radio...just ME time.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You gotta love Sarah! LOL!

~I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry of journalism. And I have a communications degree~

Sarah Palin Nov 22 2010 on FOX news

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry to disappoint you nailingit but the comments I've made have been of my own volition and have held to the very same thoughts lonnnnnng before Glenn Beck was even a known individual. And please don't try to insult me by bringing in the prejudice card. My life is filled with diversity and I wouldn't want it any other way. Nice that you are trying that little insulting game Basil was trying earlier. It's so great how you can manipulate a discussion of facts into...

well...

..trash talk. Doesn't do anything for your credibility though, sir. The facts are....

Our Nation is Broke!

Our education system is far below the standards of the rest of the world.

Students who are legally entitled to live in the USA should have first crack at scholarships, grants, loans...and class programs but they ALL should have that first crack by merit, proving they have met the criteria to be allowed into the programs.

Those who live the dream of an education in the USA need to work for the dream, following the legal route...not sneaking across border and locking in on a free ride to a college degree, courtesy of the honest taxpaying folks of the USA.

Now I ask you this Nailingit...and I seek an honest answer from you...

Is it right that undocumented members in the USA are given the opportunity to gain an education here...yet every single child who is born and raised here, who have become citizens or who are here on a permanent residence visa or educational visa...must practically sign their lives away, proving they are who they are just to acquire the chance for extended education???

The system is messed up and needs an overhaul but these "dream act policies" being thrust in from here and there...usually just to pick up votes at election time...are only confusing the matter. Our immigration laws NEED to be cleared up, straightforward and simple for ALL to understand...not just for those in politics who know how to construct documents intended to confuse anybody but rocket scientists and lawyers.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."

Bill Clinton

frobert — July 26, 2011 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @12:16 pm...

I absolutely agree with your post.

..

Hawkeye, regarding your recognition of abuse of the system with regards to the State Card...that would infuriate me if I'd witnessed what you witnessed although in the opinion of some here on the C...

They've crossed a border, using food assistance ID intended to use in another governed state, taking advantage of a tax break...but it was for the kids, right??? (yes, I'm being sarcastic, Hawk)

Seriously...maybe he was borrowing the car from a friend here in our lovely county...a BIG maybe.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe they can change it like his, if your purchase is OVER $150, then you can claim tax free status. Under $150, pay the tax. And no re-rings.

hawkeye — July 26, 2011 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm all for it, Hawkeye. Maybe you can throw a suggestion into the pot with our mighty elected ones. I think it's a keeper.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.cnbc.com/id/43887500

Not the greatest of news but definitely worth sharing. Hopefully everyone can throw a couple of extra cans of soup or an extra batch of rice in their pantry. I've got a sinking feeling the price of food is about to take a major leap.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 12:59...I hope your efforts pay off and if they do...good luck with the Mrs.!

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


IT'S A MIRACLE!!! FINALLY, a CURE for INSOMNIA!!!!

Care to know what it is???

It truly works, people!

Check out the article -

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

Sorry Howard. I'll be honest and say your article caught my attention but only because I was trying to figure out how much time it took to get all the numbers collectively into an article of that magnitude. Howard...Howard!!!! Are you awake???

Okay, I'll stop teasing.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Why is the Obama administration publicly warning about a U.S. default, while at the same time privately reassuring U.S. banks that a default won’t occur?*

are they saying it to get the markets to go insane, to basically cause a massive sell off or what???????

ELISI — July 26, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I like what they are about alleycat. I suspect pro-activist groups similar to this will rise and play a significant role in the future. If these extremist Republicans get their way in 2012...they will be birthed from human survival instincts at an accelerated rate!

Hopefully "founded by and for Americans under thirty" will read...founded by and for Americans under thirty, by Americans over forty!

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The same reason Obama is on the payroll and is doing it half-ass!

PegoMan — July 26, 2011 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So, who went to the rally at noon in front of Jaime Herrera Buetler's office? Mrs_T?

Give us your report, when you get the chance. :)

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ 4:18...because the banks and corporations that got this Congress elected won't allow those they put into office to cost them money or power. It'll be raised.

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal



I thought the rally would have better attendance, but was worth attending anyway. The "C" article says "about 50 members of MoveOn. I beg to disagree, I am not a member and from a few that I talked to, they had heard of the rally through HealthCare for All, Progressive Democrats and others. There seemed to be several groups represented. Didn't really hear anything that we didn't already know, but gave everyone the opportunity to go upstairs to Jamie's office and respectfully have their voices heard. People are tired of the bickering and want some SHARED sacrifices to mend our debt problems! I think that one opinion was shared by 100%, regardless of what "group" they got an invite from!

Mrs_T — July 26, 2011 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Mrs_T! I wish I could have been there.

I don't know where this impasse is going to lead. I am furious at the gameplaying and worried as hell. The Bipartisan Policy Center has some good information that I intend to investigate tonight:

http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/library/staff-paper/debt-limit-analysis

manthou — July 26, 2011 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I am furious at the gameplaying and worried as hell."

Manthou...YOU AND ME BOTH!!!!

goldenoldie — July 26, 2011 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


as were all that attended today! People there were well informed and all had the chance to speak to the group - open mic. The older people are especially worried, as they should be. Yes, their SS checks may be secure, but cuts to Medicare and other programs that assist them are also on the cutting/chopping block. It was refreshing to see some young people there too!

Mrs_T — July 26, 2011 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit and Mr_Basil_Seal

If you missed Maddow Show tonight, rerun is at 9:00. Melissa Harris Perry, PhD is subbing for Rachel. She brings depth to some of today's issues. First time she's had the hour and not just guest. She moved from Princeton to Tulane July 1. What a treasure!

buckeye71 — July 26, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71...Right on! I saw her tonite and thought she did great also. A treasure indeed!

nailingit — July 26, 2011 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen - I was thinking the same, but realizing that many pension funds are "invested" in these stocks, I would hate to see pensioners loosing that much. I know that the Ironworkers union has sent a couple of letters to retirees to advise them that their funds are not secure and in danger, and this was a few months ago.

Mrs_T — July 26, 2011 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good link, alleycat. It brings the depth of our nation's debt to other nations into plain view.

I have a question, though. Don't these nations have their own debts owed to our country as well? I'm wondering if there's any kind of balance act going on right now which we aren't being told...kind of that "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" mentality.

I've always wondered if the powers that be have utilized situations like what is coming up on September 2nd to instill a "false" sense of doom in order to move forward with raising federal and state taxes on the people...making us feel this is the only course of action our government can take so we "approve" of their choice.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie@ 6:45 am: I WISH the looming August 2nd deadline drama was Hollywood smoke and mirrors, a "Wag the Dog" creation to instill false fear and uncertainty in us.

The threat is real and our elected officials are playing with the USA's financial health and stability to buoy up their forthcoming campaigns.

I keep reading and hearing from experts that this is absolutely unprecedented.

My Hollywood scenario is that every member of the US House of Representatives be impeached and ousted. Kind of like a purge and enema. Sorry for the gross analogy. I really do not believe that they all deserve to be booted out, but the toxic infection from the far, far right has spread a fatal illness that is beyond recovery.

I am just grateful that the US House members must face re-election every 2 years.

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Let's call these two people, if you have not already done so, and let them know what we expect from our elected leaders:

Jaime Herrera Beutler:(202) 225-3536

Speaker John Boehner:(202) 225-0600

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just called and actually talked to a live person at JHB's office in DC. I left a respectful message, but it was firm and clear.

I am on hold to John Boehner's office now, being treated to a rousing patriotic Sousa march. Now the Star Spangled Banner. Sheesh. It is almost surreal.

Stay tuned. I ain't hanging up. Grrrrrr.

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I did get a boiler plate answer from JHB, Allen. It started with something like, "I agree with you about needing to keep our spending under control......." That is not what I wrote to her about.

I explained my concerns to the very patient factotum on the other end of the line in DC a few minutes ago. Poor kid. What a job.

Still holding for Boehner's staff.......

I really don't know if this does any good or not. I cannot wait for the elections, however..........

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning all,

I was wondering last night, why can't the voters do, say like a vote of no confidence on our elected critters?

Police officers and military can do it with their leaders, why can't we as tax payers do that with the elected ones?

As mad and frustrated as I am, many would find a red check mark by their names from the top down.

I heard on the nightly news last night (channel 8) that both sides of the aisle HAVE been chatting back and forth trying to come up with a plan that Obama will sign. Unlike most news medias that have been reporting neither sides is talking to the other.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, Allen..

I too wonder if this is all smoke and mirrors to raise taxes and prices across the board. As I posted yesterday, why is it that we get the doom and gloom yet the banks are told there will be no default...does make one wonder..

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 7:51...I can't wait either for 2012. These corrupt newbies haven't even been in a year and are trying to destroy our government. What is sad Is the GOP base and those that claim to be in the middle are lumping both parties together for blame. Mix the pot up and blame all. That or it's really not that serious. :(( If being gullible was a crime, .... well you know.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I urge everyone to look closely at Harry Reids plan. As I see it, it is our best option so far, raises debt ceiling until 2013, no new taxes, and has cuts that are needed plus a restructure of some programs. This will help buy time for now then they can go back and look closer at what needs to be done over the next two yrs.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wrote an email to Jamie but have not heard back. I don't really expect to. I tried to write to Boehner but you have to live in his area to do it. They first want your zip code, then full name and address. That's total BS. Since he is the Speaker of the House, he needs to be accessible and responsible to EVERYONE since he's trying to speak for EVERYONE!

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Try this one....SpeakerBoehner@mail.house.gov

I found it here..

http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/13/john-boehner-youve-got-mail-new-speaker-releases-personal-e-mail-address-to-the-public/

I don't blame those in office for requesting name, address of those who email them, after all it is a security thing. After what happened in Az none of them can be too careful.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...I sent mine just over a week ago and never received an answer. Looks like it's a pick and choose time of year for Ms. H-B.

Nailingit, I hate to break it to ya...but the corruption has been there long before the newbies. The old timers are just breaking them in rather quickly...and Manthou...it's the extremes from both sides of the ticket which is stalling what needs to be decided. ELISI...sounds like common sense to me. I don't know if they can comprehend that in DC, though...common sense that is.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye: There is a place for those who are not constituents to email Boehner: http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

If you look below where your zipcode is requested, there is a link to this. It says something like, "Don't live in the district? Click here"

Ya just have to dig. They make you work for it. :)

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What else is new, Manthou?

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks guys, I just fired off an email to "Mr. Speaker". Manthou, did you ever get through to anyone?

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI,

I sent my letter to Boehner and this is what I got back;

"Thank you for contacting Speaker Boehner. Unfortunately, this mailbox does not accept incoming messages. To Contact the Speaker, please click here"

So, that address doesn't work.

I used manthou's link and got my message through.

Thanks to both of you.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So ALL the news companies are screaming that August 2nd is the deadline or else all Hell will break lose when it comes to our government, taxes and paybacks...

yet this article I found on yahoo says otherwise:

http://news.yahoo.com/default-deadline-truly-aug-2-analysts-no-000349079.html

Seems to me we are being led into a panic attack fed by...well...the Feds, with the help of the news media. So folks...do you still doubt my comment at 6:45 this morning??? There's a reason why I gave the September 2nd date. I'm sure some of you probably thought..."No, it's August 2nd!"... but you figure two weeks from August 15th is about the time the real impact would be felt if the powers that be don't get something settled that will truly work.

Oh...and ELISI, with the freeze till 2013, that could prevent another quickie Band-Aid fix. Then maybe the powers that be could actually get some work done...but I might be asking for too much on that one!

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 9:32 - I am also hoping that Reid's plan can fly, it does seem to be the "cleanest" at this point. As for raising taxes and prices across the board, probably so. I think the hoarding of cash by many of the major "employers" is also a ploy to drive down wages, bust unions, etc., and it seems to be working for them. Sad day in the USA. I wonder how many years it will take them to figure out the old "supply and demand" thingy really works in capitalism. Lower wages, no jobs = less demand. Formula for failure in both tax revenues and corp. profits, IMO.

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome Hawkeye

I tried...I imagine all the elected critters e-boxes are full!!
Or they have been shut down to being over loaded or just plain shut down. I wish we had a email phone book sort of for all the elected ones.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs T @10:30 am...

I just read on yesterday's thread on CNBC. com that China has gained another 20% of mergers and acquisitions. Seems they have the upper hand and to hell with the rest of the world. Oh...if we'd only reduce the demand here for products made in that country!!!

..

btw, CNBC just reported this breaking news - "Treasurys Fall After Latest Bond Auction...US Disputes Claims Government Won't Run Out of Money by Aug. 2"

So is it or isn't it??? Who can we believe???

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I disagree 100% golden" alleycat @ 10:40 7/26

"I do have to say that in essence you, (alleycat) don't technically disagree with me..." goldenoldie @ 10:47 7/26 then you proceed with a 2 million character nonsensical diatribe before completing the sentence. For grits and shins please review :))

goldenoldie @ 9:59...it doesn't matter what is said to you, nor does someone else's opinion seem to matter much to you. Someone can look you in the avatar's eye and so no and you would believe in your mind's eye they said yes! It only matters that you believe (and I think you do) that you are correct. That's cool. It is what it is. I won't be your fiscal tiger or whoever else you would concoct in order for you to dominate these forums.......once again.

Please feel free to invoke others with your "breaking news". LOL

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


IMO if both sides don't get their heads out of their backsides, and get things taken care of to help the people of this country, there will be a sweeping change come election time over the next few years.
People have gotten to a point they have had enough of the DC's BS from the president on down.
I for one am tired of seeing my taxes go for elected officials to take posh vacations, sit on their hands and not do their jobs, and rake in retirement and all the top benefits off the backs of the working people.
Maybe we all should call for all elected ones to give up their salaries and benefits let them live like so many families do now. Maybe then they will do the job they were elected to do. Or maybe they earn their pay on a sliding scale on how well they do, do their job.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Never fear nailingit...

I don't perceive you as fiscaltiger. I perceive you as someone who is headstrong and cocksure in your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't have to get nasty...again now, do you?

As I've said all along, sir...I'm just trying to grab onto what is the actual truth and what is not. Nothing more, nothing less. And Nailingit...that wasn't my breaking news. That was the news of CNBC.

Besides, I thought this was an Open Forum, not Nailingit's Forum.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...maybe a cap on the wages and perks these opportunistic politicos receive is in order.

I'm wondering...David Wu was in politics for quite some time. Will he still receive his retirement bennies???

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


grits and shins??? Okay now...that's funny! Love your twisted words, nailingit.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 10:54 a.m.

I find it repulsive that the average citizen is forced into the social security system, and those responsible for regulating (politicians) and administering (civil servants) that system are exempt.

No politician should make a higher income then the median of those they "represent".

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I hear ya, frobert...and I agree except for the FACT the real people they represent aren't the general consensus.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Nailingit, it I hate to beak it to ya..." the breaking news I was referring to. And you are confusing perception with concoction.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my sticky widgets...

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LMAO, ELISI!!! (I wish literally,lol)

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Or maybe, could be...donkey widget

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Confusing perception with concoction??? Nailingit...what is it with you and the inability to verify by clicking on the links I've provided? I'm not making up these news alerts, sir. Just providing the links, the news updates I share...so I can understand them more. Why is it when I ask for everyone to help explain to me...you choose the insult route? Is it because you cannot answer me truthfully? or is it that you don't have an answer that suits your agenda???

Which one is it, nailingit?

And just for you, my hardheaded one:

Refer to my comments at 6:45, 10:26 and 10:41.

China m&a; acquisitions:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43901695/

Debt Deadline:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43913511

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...

Hee HAWWWWWW!!!

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm sorry but really, does anyone think that come August 3rd, our current Presidents Birthday that yours or mine and everyones else's life is going to change.. Sorry HELL NO it isn't... If you work you'll go to work just like you did today and if you don't you won't.. If you receuve SS checks you may or may not get them.. It's happened before and it will happen again maybe even in our lifetime that they claim the world is coming to an end and that China owns the US.. Well there just as dependent on us to pay our bills as we are... It will be OK folks... Everything I read on here sounds like the world is coming to an end.. Another note, none of us really know which plan is best because even the people who wrote them don't.. None of us even have a copy of any plan and if we did we would need 2 Philadelpia lawyers to determine whats in them... I don't think any of us have a Philadelphia lawyer on speed dial...

On another note I see Mr Madore made a statement on the FB side of the forum.. Just wondering what thoughts any of you had on his or any other comments from the FB on the CRC story this morning..

rtsidethinker — July 27, 2011 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker...we've been discussing the issue on the Columbiarivercrossing forum.

As far as the rest of your comment...you are right. The world isn't going to end. In my opinion...

It's just highly possible everything will become a lot more expensive than it is today...or it could go the other way, too. It's the not knowing which has some of us in a quandary.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie-'who' being key in concocting. You are not processing what's been said and that's okay.

Please, cry out to someone else for "answers". Nothing personal, just not interested.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden,

Thanks for your concise comment. Being a small business owner I can't see things getting much worse until the Presidents healthcare package starts...When they start taxing for that everyone will see a spike in there taxes, and the more you make the more you'll be taxed, even if you are not participating in it...

rtsidethinker — July 27, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 27, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.

How do you know? Where do you get your info on the healthcare bill? Did Rush tell you?

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rtsidethinker — July 27, 2011 at 11:40 a.m

Also, I'd like to know what kind of "small business" you own.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What's the matter, Nailingit? You can dish it out but you can't support your claims? You just resort to your little "isms???" Kind of a weak POV when it comes to civil discussion. That's fine, though. That's pretty much what I expected coming from you...just the same old, same old. Nailingit, the truth is I've nailed it on your little game and you don't like it. Your refusal to accept the word of someone who might agree to a few points on both sides of the ticket shows your true colors, my friend. Now as far as concocting and not processing...you are too deep in your own little biased world to try and process anything that doesn't fit your agenda. Too bad though...because sometimes you appear to be a poster with quite a civil side...till you hear something you don't want to hear, THEN the insults begin and you hide behind a facade that you aren't "Interested" in providing a response? Why is that Nailingit?

Nothing personal, just not receiving responses worthy of discussion from you...just insults typical of your banter. Oh well, that's okay, Nailingit. It's been fun my fellow poster. Now I'll turn to the others who have depth in their discussion who isn't apprehensive to answer my questions and share in their thoughts...knowing all too well that I will ask the questions I seek when trying to understand another poster and not throw insults just because I might not agree with them. In other words...someone who engages in civil discussion without civil discourse! There's plenty of them here on the forum.

Have a nice day/week/month/year/life, Nailingit.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...I mean nothing personal here, but don't you think someone who operates their own small business would have a pretty good concept of what havoc the current economic recession and future hits to the small business world could easily do to their business??? Why does there have to be these partisan digs against someone just because they have a different perception from you?

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Rtsidethinker...I think we are all apprehensive as to what the next year is in store for all of us. I think we will all feel the pinch and it will be a lot stronger than what we've already seen.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, what I have learned so far is that nobody really knows how the healthcare bill will effect them. Even the government doesn't know yet. I just want to know how she is informed, has she received anything from the government? Has she received anything from her accountant (if she has one) and does she have employees that she will need to be concerned about or is it just her? She made mention the other day about needing a small business loan for a computer, I just wonder how small of a business this is and if she really needs to worry about the healthcare bill or not? Also, judging by her screen name, my guess is she listens to Rush and Beck.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...that assumption might be correct but also...it is a term "Thinking from the Right Side of the Brain" for writers and artists and has nothing to do with politics. Just thought you'd like to know. Also...did anybody have a clue as to the thought processes of our politicians over the past several decades which would put us into what we are living through today? That my dear friend is exactly what has gotten us in trouble thus far...political leaders thinking through a crystal ball which obviously was clouded most of the time, IMHO.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, with all due respect, maybe she should stand up for herself and answer the questions to her statements.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye and Golden,

It may also mean the fact that if you are left handed.
My son is left handed and has been told he uses more of his right side of his brain more. Where right handed people tend to use more the left side of the brain.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye: Have you checked out Clark County's new Healthcare Reform website yet? I have briefly. The video is worth a look, as it explains complex issues cleverly:

http://www.co.clark.wa.us/public-health/insurance/health_reform.html

manthou — July 27, 2011 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- It could also mean road & track...or maybe rotten tomatoes...or maybe regional transit...or maybe.....Isabel Dorsett!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, with all due respect...I wasn't answering her. It was my observation... nothing more, nothing less.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, thanks for the link, the video was good. More informative than Rush or Beck or Hannity.

nailingit, could mean "right turn" too but that wouldn't make any sense, would it.

OK, GO, it just sounded that way.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow even former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson is telling the GOP to accept Sen. Reid's plan and move on.

The GOP sought a debt-ceiling increase matched with spending cuts, and no new taxes and Reid's plan answers to all that.

Will they listen? Will Reid's plan get signed? Lets hope so.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Naw it wouldn't hawk. I think you and most got it. You are on the "RighT side" of interpretation.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hollywood Baggers (who would have thought they exist!) are premiering a new founding father period based TV soap opera next Sunday called "Courage New Hampshire"! This should be great! I wonder if they will follow history as well as Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman! Man...this should be a hoot!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Chistine O'Donnel lives in the region, I wonder if she will lend a helping hand?!? I'd better see what it's rated.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


are going to default on our debt?

of course not.

there's enough money coming in the pay the interest, pay medicare, pay the military AND some left over.

why the press lets this godzilla vs. obama crap run in A section (first story, often hyped to tatters) every night speaks to the journalistic "ethics" we've got now.

DeeLittle — July 27, 2011 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat,

Why should there be a "shortfall"? Even if the property has been foreclosed on, standing empty, doesn't whom ever own the paper (bank) on said property pay the taxes? Same with empty offices, wouldn't the owner of said property pay the taxes?

I can see a shortage on revenue on sales tax since people have cut back and not buying as much..less gas bought..

Read this morning that out of the top ten states with the highest debt Washington state is #5.

ELISI — July 27, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


UPDATE 1-HealthSouth Q2 profit misses Street, lowers FY11 EPS at Reuters 6 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Equinix forecasts Q3 rev above Street view, shares up at Reuters 8 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Graco Q2 profit lags estimates at Reuters 12 minutes ago
LSI Corp. quarterly profit soars at MarketWatch 16 minutes ago
INSIGHT-Microsoft use of low-tax havens drives down tax bill at Reuters 17 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Flowserve Q2 profit misses Street at Reuters 20 minutes ago
Whole Foods boosts 2011 view, shares up Reuters 20 minutes ago
LAN Airlines profits plunge due to Chilean volcano AP 22 minutes ago
Medicine Co. 2Q earnings fall on higher R&D; costs AP 23 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Hub Group Q2 results beats Street at Reuters 24 minutes ago
Whole Foods 3rd-quarter profit rises AP 25 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Ameriprise Financial Q2 profit rises at Reuters 30 minutes ago
EPL Schedules Call to Discuss Second Quarter 2011 Results GlobeNewswire 40 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Aflac Q2 profit tops Street at Reuters 40 minutes ago
BOK Financial 2nd-quarter profit rises 9 percent AP 43 minutes ago
Boeing 2Q profit beats Street; raises guidance AP 43 minutes ago
Churchill Downs Incorporated Reports 2011 Second-Quarter Results GlobeNewswire 43 minutes ago
BroadVision Announces Second Quarter 2011 Results GlobeNewswire 43 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Skechers posts Q2 loss on higher inventory at Reuters 44 minutes ago
UPDATE1-Shutterfly Q2 loss narrower than expected, sees weak Q3 at Reuters 46 minutes ago
Exco Technologies Limited - Third Quarter Ended June 30, 2011 Results CNW Group 48 minutes ago
Whole Foods Looks Yummy at TheStreet 52 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Knight Transportation Q2 results beat at Reuters 54 minutes ago
UPDATE 1-Green Mountain Q3 profit beats estimates at Reuters 56 minutes ago
LogMeIn Announces Second Quarter 2011 Results GlobeNewswire 58 minutes ago

***If you can see the trend here, how can this economy be down when most of these companies are making money hand over fist?***

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Amen hawkeye. America is anything but broke. Wallstreet recorded over 140 Billion dollars in PROFIT ALONE at the end of last year. Beck, Hannity, Rush and so many others have had their weak minded disciples preaching "Our nation is broke!" when it is anything but. Hopefully we can turn this around.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 27, 2011 at 1:56 p.m

The fourteenth only addresses paying debt, not incurring it, only congress can authorize incurring debt. There is no fourteenth solution, what these people are talking about is overthrowing our form of government, and having the President seize authority not vested in him from the constitution.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI - That WA debt report could be very accurate. However, it is also important to look at the deficit vs. revenue ratio (as we should be doing at the Federal level, too). According to the May 2011 AARP article with statistics being supplied by Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, WA's deficit to income ratio is only 16.2%, ranking at 15th of 50. The worst of course, is Nevada at a whopping 45.2% followed by New Hampshire at 37.4%, Texas at 31.5% and CA at 29.3%! Horrible! States like TX that profess to have the "best job creation" are living with some of the highest borrowed money.

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - are you sure about the 14th not giving him the autority? And it WAS Congress that already authorized the spending, the money has already been "spent", with the blessing of Congress, not the President.

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


However, unlike the existing single-story centers, the Boise site’s design is two stories tall.

The Beaverton Big Als is not a single story building like you reported.

vancouvernative1975 — July 27, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 2:26.....Big Time Correction. Wall Street handed out 140 BILLION in BONUS'S alone. We default our credibility takes another hit and interest rates will sky rocket costing us 100's of Billions. This much we know. It is becoming evident to most everyone there is a cultish faction in this country that wants to bring down the FED and will do ANYTHING to bring this President down. These good ol' boys dun got the word out now...don't cha know..I betcha now.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 2:38 p.m.

I suggest you read the 14th amendment, not only does it not give the President any authority, it invalidates any debt not authorized by law.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Are you saying that our debt has been entered into without the authorization of the Congress? I realize that we are borrowing 40+ cents on the dollar, but for what? Un-appropriated spending?

I hope it does not come to such an emergency measure, for sure. I'm afraid Boehner's cajones are nailed to the wall by the "Tea Party" faction, and that Obama has been put in the corner and unable to find one of his, but you would think that there are a few cooler heads that can function in a practical manner!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T , I think the problem with the house is that they are (for the most part) playing follow the leader and if HIS cajones are nailed to the wall, where does that leave his followers? Of course if they could muster some courage and intelligence..... oh what am I saying, stupid me.

Never mind.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


lol, hawkeye!

frobert - yes, I have read the 14th. In the case of Roosevelt, he seems to invoke it (I think - I'm not a legal-eagle) to prohibit the South from getting out of paying the bill for the Civil War. Does that equate in any way to some now wanting to get out of paying for the Iraq/Afghanistan wars after the commitments have been made? I don't know, but sounds "reasonable" to me. The wealthy certainly do not want to sacrifice a few tax dollars, even though a good portion of their wealth may have come from our great "military-industrial complex", aka as US Gov't.!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If Pres Obama invokes the 14th nobody can stop him. This entire "crisis" has been completely fabricated from the right and continues to move the centrist line to the right. We should be discussing jobs bills. Both that are sitting and introduced. Obama gets elected and WHOA.......this....president.....who was born in Kenya.......and is racist and has a hatred for white people.....who hates our country.......who PALS around with criminals.......who put a death note for the elderly in the "Obamacare" commie act......a socialist and fascist..........who is bla..bla...blah.......inexperienced....got two mo young critters and a mamie ta boot....wants to do what every president has done in history without any problem whatsoevahhhh....?????????????

OOOOOOOHHHH.....Hell no now. Evernun knoows obummer gonna take r guns an' freedoms now.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


lol, nailingit - I think you are not far off of the mark. I'm afraid the "business" community that threw their mega$$ behind the Tea Party candidates are having "buyers remorse" about now. As the dollar is falling sharply against the yen and others, now it is costing us ALL more for our Mal*Wart cheap ChineseCrap and for all of the imported parts that this "business" community now depend on! There go profits!

I keep having the recurring nightmare-vision of Bush standing in front of the camera proclaiming "outsourcing is good for the economy" and something about eating mangos!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T LOL! Bush...mango's....AHHHH!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alley..I hope the adjustments don't hurt too much. If collective realization would turn into pro-activation quicker, maybe this assault will end to some degree in 2012. Obama doesn't seem to get it yet. Sometimes I see signs and become hopeful. Other times...Bernie Sanders was on a show today bitching about Obama not seeing things clear enough. Perhaps a solid challenger with Bernie's as well as most of America's mindset will emerge and wake Obama up.

Hell..Bernie is pretty old but....remember weekend at Bernies? LOL!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T LOL! Bush...mango's....AHHHH!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 3:41 p.m.

HAAAAAAAAA, mangos. LOL!!!!!

LMAO

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe if Obama just read our posts. Talk about your cross section of middle America.

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wish he would read them hawk! Sometimes I wonder who has the Presidents ear. Today listening to Bernie I wondered if he has spent quality one on one time with our President. I hope the Pres listens. If anything politicians put a lot of weight into polls, I'm sure he must be seeing them....Bernie!!! Go talk to Obama!!!!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit - there was a website to draft Bernie for Pres., but it's been taken down as he has said NO. Too bad! Wish the Pres. would listen to him! Or Boehner, or anybody???

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my, if you get a chance, catch Chris Matthews today. He has Bruce Bartlett, former Reagan policy advisor really telling the story like it is! Excellent interview!!!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


oops, looks like Bobbo got his comment removed from the article re: a county budget shortfall. It's about time!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WOW, looks like bobbo really put his foot in it this time. Funny stuff.

Yes you Laimer, ya just don't know when to quit, do you?

hawkeye — July 27, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


looks like ALL of his comments have been removed, all articles. Better late than never! Hope he doesn't show up in the "basement", but if so, I'm sure we will know him immediately!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T....it would make your nightmare of 'Bushmango' pale in comparison!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert - 1

Nailingit - ZEEEERO!!!

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"You might want to review your posts over the last couple of days concerning all GOP female candidates." frobro @ 7:32

I wasn't aware I insulted Tim Pawlenty.

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ohhh Emmm GEEE!!! Big news! Bob Larimer got ousted!!!

Well, not to say he didn't deserve it because he did...but my Lord, people...are your lives so pathetic that you have to make a big case out of it??? Before you know it, you'll be screaming at him with his new moniker here.

Nailingit...you REEEEALLY need to go back and read your posts.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I didn't know you were his friend.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 7:48 p.m

I commented on your misogynistic statements, that has nothing to do with bob.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!!!

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sad day for followers of the music group, America. It was reported that Dan Peek, a founding member of the group (also a singer and lead guitarist for several songs) was found dead in his bed...discovered by his wife on Sunday. He was 60.

Notable songs by this group: Ventura Highway, Tin Man, I Need You, Lonely People, Sister Goldenhair and Horse with No Name.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, sad... great songs. Too young, wonder what happened?

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't think they know yet, Mrs T.

goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm reading that he was involved in contemporary Christian music since leaving the band in 1977. He also had a book published, "An American Band - The America Story".

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ok, anyone, I'm confused. Herrera-Buetler voted to restore funding for listing endangered species (quote from article: "Herrera Beutler released a statement saying, “The Endangered Species Act needs to be reviewed by Congress to make sure federal agencies are using the best science in their species listing decisions, but completely prohibiting the listing of new species as endangered was not the right approach. Congress must make balanced decisions to protect species from irreversible extinction.”

I commend her for that, certainly!

However, she also voted a few days ago to gut the "Clean Water Act" that has protected our waterways for 40 years.

Does that mean after the fish die from the pollution she agrees with paying for them to get put on the endangered list?

Yes, I may sound sarcastic and it is intended. Seems to be a conflict of some sort here.

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 27, 2011 at 8:47 p.m.

Sitting here listening to America, and to paraphrase Billy Joel, Yes I'm feeling older and missing my younger days. Does anyone on here remember the 70's in Vancouver, Cruising the gut.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 27, 2011 at 9:24 p.m.

You confuse "social conservatives" with conservatives. In many ways "social conservatives" have more in common with liberals( I understand why you don't want to be associated with them) They believe in suppressing the rights of the individual in favor of the needs of the majority. They however have religious view of the needs of the many. If a person is to be truly conservative, they would follow the teachings of Jefferson and Adams, and this would include not only a distrust of government but also of religion and business.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - sure do! The good old days! Loved it! Graduated in 1966 from BGHS and it was the thing to do! Burgerville, DQ and Spics!

Allen - not sure, I did not see his diatribe, just read the article re: his name calling by a subsequent commenter. It was on the Clark County Budget shortfall article. I did not see his name/comment and then noticed that his postings on other articles that I had read were also gone.

I agree, his method of spreading the Good Word was certainly not my choice, or that of most Christians that I respect. Way too much hatred and name calling. (Which I, myself have to do better to refrain from... a work in progress!)

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


allen @ 9:24...the article in which the clown was booted from, a face book commenter stated that the clown claims to be a "Tea Party Patriot".

nailingit — July 27, 2011 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - ever attend the great dances at Holcomb's? Paul Revere and the Raiders, The Kingsmen, The Wailers, The Marquis? And then there's KISN radio, Roger Hart and Tiger Tom Murphy? Been way too many years!

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


by the way, who is "TCB"? Not sure what that stands for, assuming it is Larimer?

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - that is quite a broad-brush description of "convervative" vs. "social conservative". Do you think that the "conservative", then, is the follower of Ayn Rand, all for me and heck with the rest? (I believe Ayn Rand was an athiest, or strong agnostic at the least). There seems to be a strong resurection of the Ayn Rand philosphy.

I actually lean toward thinking that *most* people are a little bit of conservative, liberal and libertarian. I think most people base their opinion on issues, rather than someones "check the box".

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 9:55 p.m.

I firmly believe in government leaving the average guy alone. If someone wants to smoke a joint at home, ride their motorcycle without a helmet or do anything else that doesn't hurt anyone else, in short the conservative mantra of less governmental control and intervention. Not only is it what the founders envisioned., it costs a lot less. The federal government should be severely limited. I am sure the founders would be rolling over in their graves if they knew how many times in a given day that federal agents violate the sanctity of someones home.

I was not raised nor do I follow any christian faith. I am a follower of the Old Ways (Pagan).

I have never been able to make it through a Rand book, give a Heinlein, Card or even King book any day.

frobert — July 27, 2011 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, very well said. Yes, we are entitled to our opinions, and I very much respect that. Bobbo just seemed to be in constant attack mode, he didn't really try to understand, discuss, let alone respect, someone else's view. IMO.

frobert - it was only a few months ago that I had even HEARD of Ayn Rand. I think my googling of the name came from seeing the name a few times on these comment boards and news media! So much for my lack of education in the realm of philosophy! No, I'm sure I'll never bother reading any of her works.

Mrs_T — July 27, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen - July 27, 2011 at 10:25 p.m

First of all...

Good morning.

Well written statement, sir. I am thankful my message was directed to everyone in the manner intended. Your discussion with Mrs T is an excellent representation of civil discussion amongst one another.

I also wanted to say regarding my posts...it was kindly brought to my attention by another poster on the C (through a private email) when I comment, sometimes it is hard to differentiate when I'm being serious and when I'm in sarcasm mode and I think a lot of us do the same thing on occasion... depending on the moment. From now on, I will provide this notation - **(S)** before and after my sarcastic comment so as not to confuse my intentions when I write.

Anyhow...today is going to be a great day weather wise as is the upcoming weekend. I wish all good thoughts to you and everyone else and I hope everyone gets a chance to enjoy the most perfect weather of the Summer...and to be safe!!!

Till next time....

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,
sometimes going out and enjoying the sun and weather and not sitting at computer all day, reading all the depressing things going on, does wonders for the psyche. It provides a balance, gives you time to think, regroup, think about what one can do better, appreciate what we still have, take in the joys of a bloom, gives perspective. Do we make a difference if we just sit and feel stressed out? Misery builds on misery, sometimes one needs a break from it all. I feel like I can think a lot better after a a bit of relaxation and break. GO seems to feel the same way. We look at nature, you enjoy Alberta Street.

luvithere — July 28, 2011 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I hope Obama doesn't give away the farm today. Great post alley. Some minds are so numb they can't feel the pain of this radical GOP movement. goldenoldie I think your thoughts come through very clear. Sounds like you had a CYA mission accomplished. Just cut down on the insults, exclamation points and bullying attempts you issue when someone disagrees with you and you'll be fine. Allen...it's unfortunate the GOP has been and continues to embrace Rand and others. Their domestic policies in this direction were strong in the Reagan years and continue to strap the American people.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like the market is having a good day this morning and maybe they have a little insight on what is happening in D.C. Right now the Dow is up 61 points and has been up 75. Hopefully it will stay positive today and the government types will get their collective acts together today.

I still find it odd that the market runs on speculation and not fact.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye and they make sooo much moola doing it. Lobbyists pay off these guys to "speculate". The system needs to change.

I speculate that's not going to happen anytime soon! Where's my check? LOL

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden and luvithere,

I agree, when I feel stressed or agitated, I take my dog for a walk, or ride in the car. I come across someone that wants to argue, many times I have just simply walked away.
Everyone has a way of decompressing..daughter writes in a journal, son works out via taekwondo , hubby likes to listen to music and a good micro brew. I have a friend that when she gets agitated she sews. Its whatever works for the individual.

Problems of the world will always be there tomorrow and next week, next year.. this is not utopia and never will be.
Always be aware, and prepared. That is all one can do.

ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, "We, as individual people have our own opinions. Are those opinions correct? To each one, most likely yes."

The problem is when the opinion is based on poor information. Or rhetoric that was designed to misinterpret, conceal, raise prejudice /bigotry, appeals only to emotion, relies on logical fallacies to make a point.

It is part of how the' willfully uninformed', willingly misinformed, are played by those with an agenda.

Remember all the flag-flying SUVs during the 'build up'?

mr_basil_seal — July 28, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi, all.

We definitely appreciate the comments in this thread, but I had to remove some personal attacks and accusatory posts. Please refrain from posting these, as they are against our community guidelines.

Let's keep the discussions positive and respectful.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt Wastradowski — July 28, 2011 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


'Cut Cap and Balance' ... Cut- we cut the freedom of wall street to squander "the peoples" money by enacting stronger targeted regulatory control and prosecute those that have caused and continue to cause our economic downturn.

Cap-we cap the leeway state and Fed legislators have to suppress voters rights at the polls.

Balance- We enact a one time tax on those making more than 100 million a year to right the ship then change the tax code to reflect the needs of 98% of the American people.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...all things to the clown removed. It would be nice if he was never mentioned again. Did not understand the C to allow FB to used by such. It rolled downhill to the basement!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yo Matt,

It's really hard to know exactly where you draw the line when you do this. Especially when the posts in question just disappear. If there was some way to mark them for an hour or so and then erase them, we might have a better idea. Personally, I haven't seen anything especially nasty over here. Now on the FB side, that's a different story.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This just in about Tea Party darling and Obama nemesis from my home state of Illinois, who is being sued by his former wife for alleged unpaid child support of $117,000:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-us-congressman-child,0,2274452.story

He will have a chance to refute this in court. I will be watching. Hope his constituents are.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 9:39 a.m.

On the FB side, the limits (lameness) of the plug-in seems to prevent a note from the admin.

On this side, it might be a selector in the front end that isn't enabled.

Note that most forums are set up so the mod can add a note internally to a post; warning the poster of the infraction and what will happen to the rest for example. Or leaves a trace saying a post by so-&-so was deleted, or allows for a click to see the deleted post.

I think, for the most part the moderation level here and FB side seems fairly fair. But it does seem that Bob L. had a wholesale 'delete' which breaks some comment threads; that is where it really would have been nice to have had a 'removed by admin'.

But then, I think Matt did warn him more times than a classroom teacher would have before sending the kid to the principal.

mr_basil_seal — July 28, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-One could draw an analogy to this debt ceiling "crisis". These people refuse to raise the debt ceiling which pays for services already used. These people don't want to pay their bills. It is irresponsibility at the highest of levels. It would be nice to tell my bank I've decided to pay off my house while not changing where I live! I think many to include the house freshman don't even understand what the debt ceiling is. Yesterday there was a bagger congressman from Georgia who introduced legislation to LOWER the ceiling!?! How does that work? LOL!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have another observation: yesterday, Senator John McCain gave a speech denouncing the Tea Party Republicans' obstruction. He specifically mentioned as "crackpot candidates" Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell.

I find it sad and ironic that Senator McCain was probably the one who unleashed this plague by shining the political spotlight in the first place on Sarah Palin.

That got the ball rolling. And now he is frustrated?

It is what it is, I guess. No turning back the clock.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I understand that but I'm wondering who got their post removed and why on THIS side. Looking back, it's hard to figure out.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Really? Legislation to LOWER the debt ceiling? What magic wand does that? LOL

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 28, 2011 at 9:57 a.m

Oh that McCain, he is a wishy washy kind of guy isn't he? So glad he didn't get the White House job.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye, I hear you. I wish there was a better way to do it. We usually e-mail the posters who posted the removed comments to ask them to stop/remind them of the community guidelines.

One cool aside there: I know the volume of "anonymous" comments is down since the switch to the Facebook, but the number of flagged comments has fallen through the floor. There used to be several every day, and now there are just a few each week. For the most part, there really haven't been nearly as many personal attacks since the switch. Yeah, we're still removing comments. But it's good to see the discussions here.

Matt Wastradowski — July 28, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — July 28, 2011 at 10:05 a.m

There is a very good reason for that Matt. And you know why because you bumped his rear from the FB side yesterday. When nice people get a chance to actually discuss things without the constant aggravation from an agitator, nice discussions happen.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 10:03 am. I have a very strong suspicion that Senator McCain quickly regretted his VP choice, but could do nothing about it once the gate was opened.

I remember thinking to myself, immediately after Palin's selection: Huh? He is just trying to woo the Hillary Clinton votes and, in the Repubs deep ignorance, think that any woman will do. They vastly underestimated the intelligence of the Hillary Clinton supporters and overestimated their candidate's intellect.

I knew then it was a mistake for McCain and probably helped President Obama more than it hurt him.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It was quite obvious right away that she was in way over her head, even though the VP doesn't really do that much, it was too big of a risk that McCain could have had a heart attack or something and we'd be stuck with her.

That and Saturday Night Live didn't help any either. LOL

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


~The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgement on their level of productivity in society whether they are worthy of healthcare. Such a decision is downright evil~ Sarah Palin Face Book August 07 09

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Geeze cat, too much espresso this morning?***

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alley...I did introduce my "Cut Cap and Balance plan this morning! Did Christie use the state helicopter for transpo because he was fearful for his breathing capability? I wish ill on no one. Having said that an elongated case of Laryngitis while he finished his term would most likely be preferable to many that live in New Jersey.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


allen- The way I see it for McCain to admit Palin is a crackpot is to admit he made a huge mistake in 2008. I don't see many politicians owning up to their mistakes, especially someone as self important as John McCain.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey cat, do you know WHY the boomers rely on Social Security and Medicare? Instead of ranting about it, why don't you figure out why.

Lets see, the 401k was invented in 1979. So if you were born in say 1949, you were already 30 before you could invest, that is if you even heard of it and if your company was progressive enough to offer it. Up until that, all you had was your company retirement which was just a drop in the bucket compared to what you really need to live on so you are screwed there. Your savings, what savings. You needed that for that last heart attack because the insurance you got through your company was taken away because you had the heart attack and couldn't work. Also, after you got back to work, your health insurance after you retired only covered you until you turned 65 and that's when the Medicare kicked in.

So tell me cat, are you independently rich and can well afford to buy your own health insurance even after you turn 65? Are you going to refuse SSI and Medicare?

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 28, 2011 at 11:04 a.m

Huh, funny how you didn't answer my question.

***IN OTHER NEWS***

NEW YORK (AP) -- Big Oil continued to make big money in the second quarter.

Industry giants Exxon Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell on Wednesday reported a surge in earnings, helped by higher prices for oil, gasoline and other fuels. Even BP, still paying for the Gulf oil spill, made more than $5 billion in the quarter.

As they announced their windfall, executives said they'll devote billions of dollars more to finding new deposits that will eventually bring more supply to the market. Much of that attention will be focused on the U.S.

In the April-June period, Exxon's profits jumped 41 percent to $10.7 billion. Shell's net income nearly doubled to $8.7 billion and BP earned $5.6 billion compared with a loss of $17.2 billion last year.

Ain't that just peachy!

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


and the poor Nike CEO's salary was reduced to only $11 million this year. Boo hoo...

Mrs_T — July 28, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey cat, repeat after me faster and faster until you understand;

**OOOOWAAAH TAAAAJEEER KYYYYYAAAAAM**

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI and Luvithere...your comments definitely reflected my thoughts.

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, if I listen to Irish drinking music, I'll have to poke icepicks into my ears. Honestly, you are not worth that.

PS, you still haven't answered my question.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTOC4z...

while not a lilting voice, he has a far more powerful message.

mr_basil_seal — July 28, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal



awww Hawkeye come on a good Irish jig will get your toes a tappin and is good for your heart! LOL

Music I can't stand is the nasal country whine. That's what makes me want to run screaming down the street. Heck it would even make a banshee go into hiding.

ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 11 a.m

Interesting post Hawkeye. I had not thought of that fact. Baby boomers did not have the 401k option. You make a good point as to why seniors depend on these programs.

I am a gen Xer so I have always contributed to my 401k since I started working.

While I think that social security and medicare will need to be modified since the current path is not sustainable, I strongly believe that those on social security or those within 10-15 years of going on it should be left the heck alone. The young generation coming up are not going to get the same benefits but they will have plenty of time to put retirement savings away.

Woosker — July 28, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — July 28, 2011 at 2 p.m.

Thanks, my point exactly.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


With the rising costs of healthcare, very few people past 70 would be able to afford any medical procedure. Regardless of savings, and what insurance company would want to insure the elderly anyway? We need to keep these short-sighted baggers hands off Medicare. We can make improvements and make some savings, but beyond that we lose an all important safety net that would further class disparity in our country. With the voucher program of Ryancare it doesn't take in accelerated costs. The plan is a total sham.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why "Cut, Cap and Balance"?
by kindler

Why are they using the bloodless, bureaucratic term here? Simple: because they don't want you to visualize the consequences of actually reducing the federal budget to Eisenhower-era levels.

**They don't want you to think about Granny begging in the street because her Social Security and Medicare have been slashed. They don't want you to imagine factories going back to belching out toxic smoke and dumping poisonous effluent in streams because EPA has been cut to the bone. They don't want you to visualize thousands of Americans sick to their stomachs because FDA has to lay off so many inspectors. And they sure don't want you to think about the return of catastrophic plane crashes because FAA can't update America's air traffic control system.**

The Tea Party has gotten as far as it has because most people sadly lack the imagination to envision where their policies will actually lead -- and Democrats and the media have done an absolutely horrendous job of filling in those blanks. Too often, Dems and the media simply follow and repeat the Repubs' framing without giving it a second thought -- as when they too talk about "cap and trade" rather than about the Climate Crisis or Climate Emergency.

So don't swallow the Repub bait and talk about "Cut, Cap and Balance". Let's choose our very own name for this ugly, Depression-inducing bill, in concert with our messaging, not theirs. "Slash, Starve and Suffer" perhaps?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/28/999797/-Why-Cut,-Cap-and-Balance

mr_basil_seal — July 28, 2011 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal...BRAVO!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 28, 2011 at 2:43 p.m

Thanks, very good.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner suspended voting on his bill this afternoon...seems as though some in his party are not listening to the Speaker. I sure miss Pelosi being in charge. The first woman Speaker of the House did a great job speaking up for progressive causes and displayed many leadership skills. We need her leadership once again. Boehner is a terrible as well as inept leader. One of Sister Sarah's favorite terms fits Boehner quite well.

Impotent.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I keep wondering why people call SS an entitlement when we and our employers paid for it for years!

Just because Congress borrowed the money, doesn't make my or your benefits some kind of charity or handout.

ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 3:11 p.m.

I agree, cutting SS is just a retroactive tax.

frobert — July 28, 2011 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 3:04 p.m.

He didn't start crying, did he?

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh, I'm thinking I paid Medicare tax too.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That you did Hawkeye, but some keep referring to it as an entitlement..go figure..

ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye-He's either playing golf, crying, slurring his words, or trying to enact policy that will destroy our country. I think the baggers in the house are going to give him a permanent 'tea' time!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wait a second!!! Nailingit misses Nancy Pelosi in charge???

Oh gag! Anybody but her, PLEASE!!!! She is the absolute perfect example of an elitist!

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mitt Romney refuses to address the debt ceiling issue, Ryan Care, economic policy, etc. etc. He is the one that will most likely face Obama in the next election. Him and a bagger such as Bachman, Bob McDonnell, Rubio (My guess is he will not pick a woman...the Mormon religion tends to offer backseat appointments for those of a female persuasion). Why isn't this so called "lame stream media" holding Mitt's feet to the fire? What's up with the one who could be our next President? He won't answer and no one holds him accountable. The mainstream media continues to show a conservative bias post 2010.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And what's with the digs about Sarah Palin??? I don't see her on any political ticket for office. What has she done to those of you who choose to bash her name all the time???

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, come on GO. What has she done for anyone lately? Or at all?**(S)**

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On the lighter side;

Chad Ochocinco is now a New England Patriot and somebody else already has his number.

Bummer.

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat their using this trojan horse debt ceiling issue to subvert the will of most Americans. Reminds me of some of the anti-American tactics that are being used in Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan etc. etc. and were used in 2010. The carnival barkers like Palin, Hannity, Beck, O'Righty, Huckerbee...oh wow...I just named the Fox payroll for 2010! ... that bring the willfully ignorant into their fold, get their money...and move on to the next falsehood or scam.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi, Goldie: It is my humble opinion that the former Alaska governor cost John McCain a chance for the presidency.

Her name came up because Mr. McCain yesterday, complaining about the Tea Party Republicans, called Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell "crackpot candidates."

I opined that Sarah Palin, ironically, was the original crackpot candidate and that McCain himself is responsible for introducing her to the far-right base, who quickly canonized her. Sarah paved the way for the likes of Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell. I was pointing out the irony.

I don't think Sarah Palin would have made a good vice president. I don't think she is capable of any high political office. McCain's bashing two women who followed in her footsteps, thanks to him, just seemed laughable and sad.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie: Help me understand what you mean by "elitist" when you use it to describe Nancy Pelosi.

I see that adjective being used very often, and I think it means different things to different people.

What does it mean to you? I would really like to know and I am not being sarcastic.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, come on GO. What has she done for anyone lately? Or at all?(S)

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.

I agree with you both! She has done nothing, for anyone, lately or ever. So, why keep bringing her up? (S)

PadmaRani — July 28, 2011 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


PadmaRani: :D

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I disagree, well as least she wasn't the full reason why he lost. I think Mc Cain lost all on his own. He became wishy-washy, he lacked enthusiasm just to name a couple reasons. His heart was not into the race. One could see it if one paid close enough attention. It was almost like he knew he wasn't going to win. Makes one wonder if who we get as president is already chosen and the elections are just a farce. While Palin wasn't allowed by his staff to say or do much, she certainly IMO lacked the seasoning for the VP job. Plus the media did have a hay day with ripping her, and her family apart.

ELISI — July 28, 2011 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou - I obviously cannot speak for goldie but isn't Nancy Pelosi one of the richest members of congress, owning both a vineyard and a football team? Private schools, mayor's daughter, multimillionaire, etc. I don't know if she can relate to me but I have a hard time relating to her...

Goldie I'm just guessing.

PadmaRani — July 28, 2011 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


PadmaRani: Yep. That's one good definition of elitist: someone who is so far removed from the working stiffs they don't even know how a grocery check out scanner works (George HW Bush is alleged to have been confused at that device).

By that definition, people like Washington, Adams, Jefferson were elitists. As is Bill Gates.

I know a few intellectual elitists who cannot hold a conversation or write in a way that most of us can understand.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Yeah, I guess anyone who has assistants buying their groceries and clothes, cooking their food for them, cleaning their laundry and house. I don't get them and they don't get me.

They definitely are never going to get me!

PadmaRani — July 28, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Padma: I think it is sad but true that one needs loads of money to get elected to high political office. There are plenty of wealthy folks in both parties with those elite legacy family names: Rockefeller, Kennedy, Romney.

The playing field is not level. The person with the biggest election war chest has the advantage.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Dubya seemed to be confused quite a bit about quite a lot. August 2004 Davenport Iowa...Remember when he bit into raw corn and continued gnawing on the hard corn as to not be embarrassed, but only embarrassed himself further by doing it? LOL!

Nancy is one of the few that speak loud and proud for the progressive base. It's why people that lean hard right can't stand her. She's more than competent, well spoken, and handled the constant barrage of insults, stunts and policy barriers that Republicans put in front of her better than any Speaker I can remember. The first woman Speaker of the House not only conducted herself honorably...but with measure and success.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I knew people would be questioning my statements. First of all...Hawkeye...that's my point. SP hasn't done much so why always bring her up? The woman isn't running for President that I know of.

And Manthou, it was John McCain who screwed up his chance for presidency. He chose a woman with a pretty face, thinking that's what would have gotten him elected, along with other issues which ruined his chances as president. Also...regarding just what an elitist is...looks like your discussion with PadmaRani was spot on.

PadmaRani, nice to see you posting...and thanks. You're a good guesser. The elitists know their fecal matter stinks just like everybody else's, but they have the influence and ability to hire their own private entourage just to convince the people that it doesn't stink.

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou - I believe it is the person with the biggest corporate backing, thanks to Citizens United. I don't think you really have to be wealthy anymore, just tow the corporate/ALEC approved line and you'll be rolling in campaign cash!

Mrs_T — July 28, 2011 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**(S)**Alleycat, who says I was speaking of bright women?**(S)**

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie - I think Sarah Palin is very much involved with current "political tickets". Maybe not her own, yet, but she is in the media quite often telling us that the danger of default is not real, reminding us that is time to reload, or making up another history lesson for us. If she would go to Alaska (or I guess now AZ as they have purchased a home there) and fade into the crowd until deciding to pursue an office we would not be talking about her, I feel.

Mrs_T — July 28, 2011 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T: How right you are about corporate backing. Thanks for pointing that up. The Supreme Court helped that out, for sure.

Elitist has taken on a negative connotation, but are there are examples where it should evoke something more positive? For example, Navy Seals and Green Berets are considered an elite group of our military.

nailingit: Nancy Pelosi was able to bring the House together for some very difficult votes (Health Care Reform, Budget for example). She had to work hard for that kind of collaboration, for sure. It is not happening right now and the country needs it.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Conservatives on the right have been using the term "elitist" as one of their nasty catch words, more since 2010 than ever. When Madore, bobbo, menlo and others used to post here they were invoking the word elitist with negative connotations all the time in this vein... "crap don't stink, can't relate to the middle class" in order to draw wrongful divisive thinking into the fray.

It still happens.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ahhh, Manthou...now there's where the difference is. When you speak of an elitist...that is someone who selfishly surrounds their lives in their fame, keeping out of touch with the real world whereas the Green Berets and Navy Seals are the highest trained specialists in their field working in the REAL world and they do their job well without a paid endorsement.

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs T: It is my opinion that she is not at that certain point in her political career to engage in running for President. Quite frankly, it is my opinion that the woman as a mother, author and television personality would be doing her family a service if she steered clear of running for office altogether. I actually admire her as a mother and a go getter...but I wouldn't vote for her.

Nailingit, I guess I'll remind you once again that this last major election, I voted mostly on the "D" side with one exception of which I'm still skeptical about my decision. Sorry to burst your little political attack bubble again, but an elitist is an elitist no matter if they have an R, a D, an I, an L or nothing at all after their name whatsoever. You've got to break yourself of that habit of trying to place the blame game on someone just because you don't like their comment. Get with the program and actually read the responses rather than just finding something ridiculous and off the wall in your attempts to discredit. You used to be so meticulous in your statements and appeared a lot more levelheaded. What happened to you???

goldenoldie — July 28, 2011 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- Please quit inserting yourself to be some sort of prime example of what I speak of. I have no interest in how you vote. I regret if my remarks have offended you.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting note: Huffington Post is reporting that It looks like Boehner isn't going to get a vote tonight on his "debt ceiling" bill after all. Instead they might vote on the controversial NLRB related legislation the republicans shoved through the house last week which involves the opening of the Boeing factory in South Carolina. It's designed to stop the NLRB from protecting workers rights as well as enabling corporations to ship more US jobs overseas. Ya gotta love these guys. The Koch's must have promised them life long income!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Strong**No vote tonite on the Boehner Bill!!! Boehner is raging..mad!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Atlas is done shrugging. He's throwing it down, man... no more welfare state, no more unions with artificially inflated wages.
Anyway, the Chinese will be making all the aircraft in the next 50 years, not Boeing. And if not China, then India, Pakistan, or Brazil.
Unions are through. Every dog for himself now.

mangoboy — July 28, 2011 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok so the vaunted triple A rating takes a big hit. Just another example of the new world order emerging? The center is shifting 6000 miles East... Or maybe it's the economy seeking homeostasis. If the result is higher interest rates, so what, they weren't selling at the bargain basement price anyway! And, all us tiny savers who want to stay in cash deserve a little interest on our few, hard earned bucks. Its not believable what banks pay for deposits. Basically nothing, in fact.

mangoboy — July 28, 2011 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you dozen or so baggers that are stopping everything! Instead of accepting Obama's caving in on much needed programs (one of the many sticking points were pell grants) hopefully we can just get a clean raise of the debt ceiling as it should be.

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I am convinced the American worker does not want to work. Where is the outrage, the anger, the organizing? Mostly some halfhearted whining and complaining. A million man/woman march is needed to Washington, DC. I quess laying around, slowly starving is easier...

mangoboy — July 28, 2011 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey mangoboy, why don't YOU get your butt to DC, I'm sure you can still catch a plane tonight!

hawkeye — July 28, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit and mangoboy: Political scientist will be writing about this phenomenon for years to come.

I heard Charles Shumer talking about the Pell Grants being a major sticking point, too. Pell grants, student loans and social security (my dad died when I was a teen) helped me and my two younger brothers through college. I could not have done it withouth these programs. We were a blue collar family.

I wonder what universe these few contrarians are living in? One where you do not pay your bills, where the poor and middle class were sacrificed for the wealthy?

Someone explain it to me, because I am at a loss to understand.

manthou — July 28, 2011 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen - one only needs to read the article from yesterday regarding the county budget "shortfalls" to realize that their public/private investments have not been wise choices. I don't remember if the Chelatchie Prairie Railroad was on there, but that's another one, plus the Lewis River Golf Course or whatever.

We were told at the rally at Herrera's office on Tuesday that the first rally had about 3 people attending. We had about 50 this time (and no, we were NOT all members of MoveOn.org as the Columbian stated). I hope that we will see more turnout on important issues, at all levels of government. I have been actively calling and e-mailing for quite some time. I get e-mails from both the Dems and Republicans, plus many other groups. I like to know how they all are voting, it helps me to decide where my own vote lands.

As more groups like American Legislative Exchange Council are exposed and we find out who is actually penning our legislation and who's interest it is serving, I am hoping more do get involved and "take back" the USA from those that have truly hi-jacked our government!
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

Mrs_T — July 28, 2011 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen & Mrs_T- An article in last night's C gave a pretty optimistic outlook for bringing the bears here. In addition to bringing the community together, to root for our team and interact with one another...it's projected to bring in over 200 million $$$ in revenue over the next 20 years. Community sports tournaments will find a home. It'll provide our community with hundreds of construction and service jobs both full and part time for many years to come. It will give us distinction from our friends across the river. I think I'll apply!

True, people will see a 50 cent bump when they see 'Die Hard 9 The Lazarus Project', $10.00 to 10.50, but many will have the opportunity to watch good live baseball with their family and friends and for ONCE enjoy the benefits of taxation!

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:32...I'm at a loss also. I have this theory about an alien chess game being played in foggy weather...outside of that I'm baffled. The very people that are being sacrificed are the first ones to stand in line......

nailingit — July 28, 2011 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit @6:44 pm, you are a card!!! You make a statement which clearly reflects my post at 6:01 pm...then you try to pass it off as not being directed towards me. You make me laugh with the way you try to cover your tracks in such a manner. Thanks for generating yet another smile with your attempts at wit and wisdom.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This morning on the Columbian is a wonderful article about Ms. Lee Rafferty and her dedication to restore downtown Vancouver to a friendly and productive zone. Kudos to her!!! If I didn't know better, I'd think she's one of our very own regular posters here in the basement...and I'm sure she would have a pretty good idea of who I think she is (wink, wink)!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


To those of you who claim that MAX is safe for women, here's a sister story, courtesy of KOIN...to the Columbian news alert:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Man-uses-fists-for-random-attack-on-women-at/W_L8hfzbUEKfJi5WdJMpLA.cspx

This young man is the lowest of the low for attacking an 84-year-old woman as she waited for the MAX. Just another day in paradise.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Alleycat!!! How was the gathering on Alberta Street? Hopefully it was a good experience...not like a few years back.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


These house republicans will be remembered in 2012.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder if - http://wordsmith.org/words/pavonine.html & http://wordsmith.org/words/anserine.html -

aren't not so subtle digs at what's going on @

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

& Washington, D.C.

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat...glad you had a great time, even now that you are sporting a "headache" as you would like to call it today.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh boy, there I go again with my "thinking cap" on. Alleycat, I wasn't at the gathering but politics are giving me a headache.

I was wondering just why our elected officials in DC had to wait till the wick on the virtual ticking time bomb had to get so gosh darned low before taking action to solve the nation's debt crisis. I mean...why did they wait till the last minute once again like they did the last time we were told a decision had to be made immediately or we'd face a financial meltdown here in the US??? Why is it they aren't working on this as a collaborative group from the day they were elected???

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie @ 6:31 am: Isn't that a breath-of-fresh-air article in the midst of all this teeth gnashing and worry-bead abuse?
It helps to remind me to focus on "what's working" more than what is not. Downtown and Uptown Vancouver works!

I posted it on the Downtown Development forum, too. I went to the post office on Daniels last night and could not find street parking. I realized that it was overflow parking from the Thursday night free concert. I have never seen it so crowded.

__________________________________________

What happened to statesmanship? I will certainly remember who is fighting whom in the Republican party, nailingit. Does anyone have a clue of how Ms. Herrera Beutler plans to vote on Boehner' bill, if it comes to a vote? I cannot tell from her email response to me. Maybe she doesn't know.

I am taking notes in case my short term memory fails me. :)

manthou — July 29, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**(s) **Hey!!! Basil, I see your favorite sparring partner is in the article you posted. Don't you wish he'd come to the forum and share comments with you again???? **(s)**

..

Manthou...it really is a breath of fresh air, even with what's downwind from our downtown area, lol.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 10:31 pm: Your alien chess game makes more sense than anything else I can think of!

Remember "St Elsewhere", the 80's TV series about a hospital? The final episode revealed that the whole experience we viewers watched weekly was actually the snow globe fantasy of a doctor's young autistic son.

Or the Bob Newhart show where, in the final episode, he wakes up as the psychologist from his first series next to Suzanne Pleshette and announces: "Wow! I had this crazy dream that we were proprietors of a Vermont bed and breakfast!"

Wake me up, please.

manthou — July 29, 2011 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Let's hope this dream doesn't become a nightmare.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 28, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.

Might want to look at

http://transitionvoice.com

http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/2011/07/yes_food_stamps_are_more_impor.php

"But let’s just say that Obama’s continuing insistence on compromising, his continuing faith in bipartisanship despite two and a half years of evidence that these people don’t do compromise and will never make a deal, is looking obsessive and compulsive. It’s deeply frustrating."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/guest-post-yastrow-%E2%80%9Cwe-are-on-the-verge-of-a-great-great-depression%E2%80%9D.html

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

Whaaaaaaat? You mean we actually have science to back up COMMON SENSE?! The idea that the planet was doing just great regulating it's temp until we came along with our carbon emissions is preposterous and egotistical. Our decade or two of pollution is doing jack doolittle to the planet.
Renewable resources? Great."Free" energy? Heck yes.
But don't fight for sustainability while telling everyone that if we don't we'll all die. Too many have been swallowing the stupid pill long enough. Too many innocent people actually believe the "facts" alarmists produce. Hopefully some of them will see this article and start to think for themselves.

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:49 a.m.

It is interesting watching those who so proudly stapled teabags to their hats not so long ago implode.....

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:49 a.m.

Speaking of tea bags, maybe they were brewing compost tea.....

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 9:07 a.m

I've thought the same thing forever. It only makes sense. Throughout the history of the planet there have been many events that should have had a catastrophic effect on the atmosphere but we still survive. Funny how that works.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**(s) **Well Basil, maybe you need to invite him and ask just what type of tea it is. **(s)**

What a waste of use of tea. I'd much rather be steeping it in my tea cup on a sunny day, sitting in my favorite patio chair on a back deck, overlooking a field loaded with wildflowers visited by an abundance of butterflies and honeybees... and swallows or purple martins grabbing insects for their lunch.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 9:07 a.m.

You do realize that pointing to one opinion piece that references something that is not in a Cli. Sci. journal isn't exactly an equivalent to the 100+ years of research by thousands of scientists in thousands of articles in hundreds of journals, right?

And pointing to a paper that is brand spanking new and hasn't been reviewed by the larger body of researchers is a favorite gambit of the deniers, right?

Here's another source citing that article:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread733594/pg1

" completely fabricated and/or manufactured LIE. With one heck of a Cast of Characters... from Obama, to the UN"

But then, the author's own comments @ http://blogs.forbes.com/jamestaylor/2011/07/27/new-nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-in-global-warming-alarmism/

Show the same level of denier talking points, not to mention the cherry picking that it takes to support them.

Here's the denier talking points, broken down by category and the evidence showing why they aren't part of the scientific debate:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?f=taxonomy

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @9:43 am: Thanks for the beautiful image. Do you offer guided meditation with that? :)

I will hold that in the front of my brain today. It is much better for me.

manthou — July 29, 2011 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's my getaway thoughts...my "Zen" world, Manthou. Whenever I engage myself in meditation through relaxation of each and every muscle in my body which by the way is excellent therapy for those of us who suffer chronic pain, I erase all thoughts and with each slow constant breath I take, I put in my mind another segment to my "Zen" world. I keep a pen and notepad next to me and write what it was I pictured. It works wonders for the soul. Some of my best writes are done after one of my sessions. And it puts me at peace with the world, even with everything going on. I guess you can say it's my little private escape from the world...if only for a half hour or so...and it doesn't cost a penny, either.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil @ 9:47 am: I knew I could count on you to explain the importance of studying the "big picture" of peer-reviewed science over time. :)

manthou — July 29, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie @ 9:56 am: If we all did what you describe daily, we'd enjoy better health and a smoother-functioning world.

manthou — July 29, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think so too, Manthou. It really isn't difficult and if a person is having issues with insomnia...it works wonders, and the dreams always turn out good.

You ever remember those commercials "Calgon...take me away!!!"

It's kind of the same thought process. You absorb yourself in a peaceful existence. I just recommend turning the sound and vibrate off on the cell phone while anybody tries this out. I don't know how many times I've been shocked out of "My" time by phone rings. A 30-minute wait isn't going to hurt the callers.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 9:07 a.m.

*Too many innocent people actually believe the "facts" alarmists produce.*

Here is an example of what happens when deniers grab the 'latest and greatest" research that supports their claim.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/07/is-sea-level-rise-accelerating/

And, of course, what isn't there is that when deniers grab the 'latest and greatest" research that supports their claim, they are cherry-picking from literally hundreds of journals with several articles each from that month's distribution of research.

One article, later shown to be in error. Out of hundreds.

Yup, climate changes. Always has; Always will - figuratively speaking. And there are some cycles to the change; some very long, some shorter. From a range of natural forcings.

But virtually all the evidence shows that our CO2 output from burning fossil fuels is overriding those cycles.

And yup, China is guilty. And then they pack their products into container ships and we buy them. Externalized costs.

Sorta like not funding two wars....

So now we get to start paying.....

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...I think you touched a nerve with Sir Basil this morning. (Here's a little teeny tiny **(s)** just for you know who.)

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 10:11 a.m.

Not that it isn't exactly an important issue, right?

So, well worth pointing out how invalid the denier talking points are.

Just as it is well worth pointing out how invalid the teabagger talking points are.

Just as it is well worth pointing out how invalid the 'Humanists are taking over the US' talking points are.

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 10:11 a.m

I thought you might find this an interesting read.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652

frobert — July 29, 2011 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 29, 2011 at 10:36 a.m

Oh, fro. You finally figured out your own diagnosis. Good for you.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:50 Bob Newhart used to crack me up with his brand of dry humor, it most likely rubbed off somewhat! What happened to Tom Poston? This is like a bad dream. The fog it's producing seems to be blurring the lines of sanity with some. Something to keep in mind...this cultish conservative faction of the Republican party that embraces bringing down the Fed, reversing widely embraced decisions and policy such as Roe v Wade, the civil rights act, the right to medicare and social security as a safety net, to bring corporate tax rates to zero and disallow the right to collectively bargain, to create a climate of anarchy in which to hasten the 2nd Coming of Christ in order bring about their personal vision of 72 virgins...used to make up about 16-20% of the Republican party. Since 2008 this faction seems to have been "outed", and has grown from 20% to 70%. They seem to believe America's first black president is bent on destroying America. After all, he Was born in Kenya and isn't legit anyway.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Hello, my name's Larry, this is my brother Darrel and this is my other brother Daryl.

So last night Mr. Boehner (I hope that's spelled right cause he says Bayner when phonetically it's Boner) said that he didn't have enough votes to get his bill through the House. Apparently his bill was sort of a compromise and more "right" than "center" but not "right" enough for tea party members of which there aren't really that many but enough to not give him a majority. My question is, could he have made it more appealing to the "left" and gotten enough votes from the Democrats to pass the House and then assured passage through the Senate?

That would have been the smarter move but probably would have ticked off his party too much.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Republican tactics on the right haven't changed much over the years. They certainly haven't changed their colors. Currently there are 27 African-American men serving on the Democratic side of the aisle...the Republicans have 2.....currently 13 African-American women serve on the Democratic side of the aisle...the Republicans have zero.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm speaking of the currently dysfunctional House of Representatives in the 11:34 post.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 11:31 a.m.

http://transitionvoice.com/2011/07/will-republican-party-die-in-childbirth

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk @ 11:31 Among other radical right wing demands, the boner plan refused to raise the ceiling through 2012 so this circus can take place again before the elections. The one thing Obama said he would veto. These radicals aren't serious about this issue except to get 100% of what they want. The Reid plan is terrible and has zero revenue. The right has succeeded in that this is even an issue...Obama needs to wake up. These House Republicans have zero concern when it comes to jobs bills and he's letting them control the message.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Worst Part of the Deal? What's Not In It
Jonathan Cohn July 28, 2011

When it comes to the debt ceiling debate, we still don't know who will vote for what and when. But there's one thing we do know, with virtual certainty. When Congress does get around to passing a bill, it won't include efforts to boost the economy in the short term. And that is a travesty.

As you may recall, the Grand Bargain that President Obama was hashing out with House Speaker Boehner included an extension of unemployment insurance, a renewal of last year's payroll tax holiday, and some general language promising more funding for highways.

Similarly, authorities such as the International Monetary Fund have dismissed the idea that austerity measures would help an economy such as the United States’ in the short term, pointing out that few cases exist where sharp cuts led to fast growth in countries where employment was robust, interest rates were high (so the monetary authorities could compensate for the cuts), and exports were strong — conditions that don’t apply to the United States. More normally, they concluded, “a fiscal consolidation equal to 1 percent of GDP typically reduces GDP by about 0.5 percent within two years and raises the unemployment rate by about 0.3 percentage point.”

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/92866/debt-deal-payroll-tax-unemployment-insurance-jobs-crisis

Also see:

Do I Need to Spell It Out? OK, Then. J-O-B-S.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/92917/gdp-growth-low-payroll-tax-ui-stimulus

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - hubby and I have been screaming the same thing, tweak the bill to get a few Dem's on board... but that would have been too sensible for this dysfunctional sitting Congress! That would involve that word that is so against their grain - compromise!

goldenoldie - love your description of such a peaceful time-out! We all need these. For me, mom still lives on the place that I grew up on in Hockinson, and a short walk down to the creek, smell of wild mint and sitting and watching the water go by does it!

Mrs_T — July 29, 2011 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 8:40 a.m.

Because politicians are addicted to spending money that we don't have. It's not just this Congress. It has been going on for decades, we are just now at a point that the crap is hitting the fan.

Even if they increase the debt ceiling, there is a high possibility that our AAA credit rating will be reduced since nobody believes that Congress is serious about real debt reduction.

Perhaps that is what it will take for Washington to get serious about our debt.

Woosker — July 29, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a delightful group of people we are in the basement forum!!! So many differing views and such a diversity of comments this week...FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION!!!

My biggest smile is tied between Nailingit at 11:34 for his clarification and Mrs T's down home enjoyment with her mom...something I truly miss. One of my favorite memories...my mother and I walking the garden at Fort Vancouver together, entranced in the wonders of life. Mrs T, cherish those moments. Live in the "Now" with your mom.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker, I tend to agree with your post at 12:26.

goldenoldie — July 29, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mrs_T — July 29, 2011 at 12:06 p.m.

You know what "they" say, great minds think alike, lesser minds really bite.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9:44 a.m

First when has scientists been studying the climate for 100+ years? Very far fetched..since records of temperatures go back maybe 75 years at the most. The real studies date back 50 years. Plus if you bothered to really do your homework, you'd find out that it is all theory, speculation, opinion.

Your first link is not a credible source, it is a conspiracy theory forum.

I'm not going to argue with you on this, I have my opinion, you have yours.
I posted the story to let others know they must think for themselves and not rely on the alarmist to tell them what to believe. If you choose to keep drinking the compost tea, by all means go right ahead. I'll continue taking care of the earth the way I was taught, you do it your way. At least I am doing something, not just sitting in front of a computer linking to conspiracy theory forums in hopes to gain popularity.

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Guys, got a letter back from Ms. Jamie today. She says she won't vote for anything that messes with SSI or that raises taxes. She also said that government spending from 1957 to 2008 was 20% and for the last two years it has gone to 25%. She didn't say it but it seems like she is trying to blame Obama for that when we all know it's because Bush didn't include the wars in the budget and also because of the bailouts that were caused years earlier. Funny how she conveniently left that out.

Also, I find it odd that this letter won't let me copy and paste. Almost like she doesn't want anyone else to see her words. Hummmm

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*First when has scientists been studying the climate for 100+ years?*

Joseph Fourier 1820s, Greenhouse concept

Tyndall 1859, Identify CO2 as main GHG

Arrhenius 1896 postulates Anthropogenic CO2 could cause rise, does calculations that are very accurate as to the power of the forcing.

I'd say that if you don't know the basic history you might not be that well versed as to the depth and breadth of the research nor the level of scrutiny of that research. And quite possibly not aware of the basic science and physics that govern what happens.

"*.. it is a conspiracy theory forum."*

And you know that how? You can prove that none of the authors have any science credibility? Remember, you just used an editorial writer as your proof, btw....

And then we get, ala Jon, Lew, and Bob, personal attacks rather than anything substantive......

So, basically, you cite an editorial and try to claim that it is the equivalent to the 100+ years of research by thousands of scientists in thousands of articles in hundreds of journals, right?

You could start here:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/index.html

http://cses.washington.edu/cig/pnwc/pnwc.shtml

http://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie. My post you cited @ 11:34 was meant for emphasis rather than clarification. But I'm glad it lent you clarity. Let me give you a quote for clarification and a prime example of what I'm speaking to...someone you have attributed to...I believe you once said "saving your life". After several rebukes from the basement you have since clarified his life saving counsel...to be limited to advice on food storage. Yes you did say the best day of your life was when you recently quit watching...but best and worst days speak very much to emotional commitments, and how hard it is to break them...

~This president has exposed himself over and over again as a guy who has a deep seated hatred for white people or the white culture....I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem. This guy, I believe, is a racist.~ Glenn Beck

I believe people like Beck, Limbaugh, Robertson and so many other bomb throwers on the right have caused you and many others to view political talking points as some type of game to be one or lost. A one upmanship where "game over" and touting partisan diatribe as some sort of win. To understand events in a different light than what feeds into our pre-conceived prejudices and bias takes laying your ego at the door, and opening your heart to ideas which treat all humans with the same respect as we treat ourselves. You folks on the right who cling onto your Sarah's and beck's for need of "clarification"...should look inward and get back to some very basic principles like...treat one another as you wish to be treated. Especially when it comes to public policy.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 1:12 p.m

Have you tried to "screen shot" or on some keyboards "print screen" the letter then paste it into an email, copy from there?

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Really nailingit? You are stating that Golden is too stupid to think for herself. Let's go with a few of Obama's quotes from his books.

I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites." From Dreams of my Father

I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself: the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela." From Dreams of my Father

It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names." From Dreams of my Father

Woosker — July 29, 2011 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 1:12 p.m.

*Also, I find it odd that this letter won't let me copy and paste. Almost like she doesn't want anyone else to see her words. Hummmm*

If there is no 'If you have trouble reading this email' link, the text is 'hiding' behind a CMS frontend and some propitiatory viewing system like Adobe Flash.

Which, I think, is illegal for .gov docs (or at least to not offer a plain text version.) If I remember right, all communications are supposed to be available in a variety of modes - think impaired vision and need large print or even a verbal reader.

Things to try; check her site to see if there is an option for 'plain text ' email as opposed to html, etc.

verify that there isn't a similar problem with other .gov emails (Murray, et al)

Type the first twenty or so words into google (might have to use " " and see if the letters come up somewhere else. Maybe on her site, maybe someone with better tech chops who broke the defeat copy paste.

Try another browser if you are using web-based email. Or forward it to another web-based email system (ie. from gmail to yahoo )

Go to her Van. office and explain the problem.

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


type of game to be "one" or lost... should be "won". And god knows how many more LOL...did not want to offend the 'purists'.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 1:14 p.m

Once again Basil since it is obvious you didn't understand the first time around..

I'm not going to argue with you on this, I have my opinion, you have yours.

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker! I appreciate you. You say who you are. How is Glenn doing anyway...hold on I'll check his site...LOL..same ol' same ol'...trashing McCain for trashing the tea party, trumping the views of Rand Paul, trashing Obama, and has the Reid/Pelosi mantra happening!

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Soooo....do you echo Glenn's words? Do you think President Obama is a racist?

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.

*Once again Basil since it is obvious you didn't understand the first time around..*

I quoted you and showed where you were wrong. If you have information that support any of your claims, now would be the time to bring it forward.

I can supply links to climate data far back from where you claim it started being recorded.

And you don't even make an effort to prove your ".. it is a conspiracy theory forum." claim......

First when has scientists been studying the climate for 100+ years?

Joseph Fourier 1820s, Greenhouse concept

Tyndall 1859, Identify CO2 as main GHG

Arrhenius 1896 postulates Anthropogenic CO2 could cause rise, does calculations that are very accurate as to the power of the forcing.

I'd say that if you don't know the basic history you might not be that well versed as to the depth and breadth of the research nor the level of scrutiny of that research. And quite possibly not aware of the basic science and physics that govern what happens.

".. it is a conspiracy theory forum."

And you know that how? You can prove that none of the authors have any science credibility? Remember, you just used an editorial writer as your proof, btw....

And then we get, ala Jon, Lew, and Bob, personal attacks rather than anything substantive......

So, basically, you cite an editorial and try to claim that it is the equivalent to the 100+ years of research by thousands of scientists in thousands of articles in hundreds of journals, right?

You could start here:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/index.html

http://cses.washington.edu/cig/pnwc/pnwc.shtml

http://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq

*I'm not going to argue with you on this, I have my opinion, you have yours.*

Ahhh, but the opinions aren't equivalent because of the difference in the quality and quantity of the data behind them.

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Blah, Blah, BLah nailingit. Same old played, tired slogans. I was just writing the actual quotes written by our President. Is this all you can come up with in response? LOL.

Woosker — July 29, 2011 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 1:12 - now, we will watch and see how Mrs. Jaime actually votes!

from her response: Second, the deal must protect Social Security from cuts. Social Security has not driven our debt, and I will not support a debt ceiling deal that makes cuts to Social Security in order to cover for overspending in other areas. Every month of our working lives our pay stubs show the dollar amount we hand to the government for Social Security, with a promise it will be there for us when we retire. I'll always vote to make sure the U.S. keeps this promise no matter what kind of mess politicians in DC are making. Social Security is not a spending account for politicians' whims.

Mrs_T — July 29, 2011 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, I should have put that in "quotes". Her "first", was that she would not vote to raise taxes.

I wonder how the Tea Party rally people that went to her office yesterday feel about her SS statement? The group that attended on Monday was there to protest messing with Social Security or Medicare.

Mrs_T — July 29, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - I actually can't stand when the race card is used by the left or right. I have no idea what is in our President's heart so I will not judge him. Your comments about Beck make it sound like he just formed his opinion out of nothing. If these quotes were written by a white person regarding black, I'm 100% positive that everyone would think that person is racist.

In this case, you act like you can't understand how a person could form that opinion based on the President's own writing.

It just seems to be a very narrow way of thinking.

Woosker — July 29, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm looking at Beck's perversion of truth here...

that word we were discussing yesterday...elitist or elite seems to be quite a catch word in his ramblings...how the "cultural elite" has so much contempt for American culture. I can't view his crap anymore..it makes me ill...how do you guys do it?

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I never intended to imply Beck was not displaying foundational thinking with his remark.

President Obama considers himself part of the African-American community. Hence.....

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I like to listen to people on every side and I form my own opinion. Beck is not a Republican so he is hard on both sides.

Woosker — July 29, 2011 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes Woosker. He's really tough on the right LOL!!!

He's also pretty tough on the families of the slaughtered children in Norway and family members of 9/11 victims.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boehner's radical right wing tea party bill needed 217 votes to pass the House. It received 218 votes with 22 Republicans voting against. No Dems voted in favor. Jaime did. She voted for it.

Just Jaime and one other independent thinking person was needed to stop this waste of time bill and send some sort of message.

It was your time to stand up for us Jaime. Instead you took the low road. Shameful.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's being reported that Mitch McConnell is fillibustering the Reid plan. The only plan that stands a chance of passage. These people want to shut our government down regardless of the consequences. 2012 will be the most dramatic turn around in our nation's history. I've followed politics for some time now and never has anything close to this has occurred. We need to wash our hands from this corporate republican filth in 2012.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Roughly two-and-a-half hours after it was passed by the House, Senate Democrats on Friday night tabled, 59 to 41, House Speaker John Boehner's bill to raise the debt limit.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will now try to broker his own plan with Republicans and the White House before the debt ceiling expires on Aug. 2. Reid's current bill would achieve $2.2 trillion in deficit savings over ten years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.*

http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/F490YD/D4Q38U/NP58IF/RWLI8H/PX9JQ/VU/h

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lets hope Reid's plan passes. His extends pass 2012 unlike Boehners that was only till 2012.

Last I knew, Reid's keeps medicare/ss and education/pell grants where it is.
I know Boehner wanted to cut those. IMO that is what killed Boehner's plan in the Senate.

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI won't like this:

http://www.livescience.com/15293-climate-change-cloud-cover.html

Critique of the latest denier 'research'.

Also has a bit about the journal it came in, and how data was manipulated.

Gee, isn't that a complaint deniers use a lot?

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Finally got it, Part 1;

Thank you for contacting me regarding the debt ceiling. It is an honor to represent the people of Southwest Washington, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Every day I am asked where I stand on the fast approaching deadline to raise our nation's $14.294 trillion credit limit, or "debt ceiling." Here, I will give you the three most important items as I see it and let you know what I will and won't support.

For decades Congress and Presidents – of both parties – have overspent using our national credit card. The bills have come due. Economic experts say the U.S. Treasury must raise the debt ceiling by August 2 or face potentially devastating effects to our economy. We also face economic devastation if the national debt is not reduced significantly. There is no painless answer to this problem.

I am not a DC veteran, but when I arrived in Congress six months ago I saw that the debt ceiling issue might provide a way to start to bring federal overspending under control. Watching the posturing on this issue by federal leaders is frustrating, but I know that a sensible deal is possible. I do not want August 2 to pass without a solution.

For our country's economic and financial well-being, we need a deal that meets three main goals. First, it can't raise tax rates. Any rise in general tax rates would harm Southwest Washington's families and small businesses at a time when our economy is so weak and so many people are struggling to make ends meet. I won't vote for a plan to raise the general taxes – period. I can support eliminating tax loopholes that allow big corporations to avoid paying their fair share, for example ethanol subsidies and tax breaks for private jets. To me, closing these kinds of loopholes is about fairness and making sure that everybody is contributing, but I don't pretend that these items will make more than a very small dent in a $14 trillion debt.

Second, the deal must protect Social Security from cuts. Social Security has not driven our debt, and I will not support a debt ceiling deal that makes cuts to Social Security in order to cover for overspending in other areas. Every month of our working lives our pay stubs show the dollar amount we hand to the government for Social Security, with a promise it will be there for us when we retire. I'll always vote to make sure the U.S. keeps this promise no matter what kind of mess politicians in DC are making. Social Security is not a spending account for politicians' whims.

Third, this deal must significantly address the overspending. I said that leaders of both parties for decades shared responsibility for the overspending that created this giant debt. It's also true that from 1957 to 2008 federal spending stayed around 20% of our gross domestic product. In just the past two years that number has shot up to 25%.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


part 2;

In May, I voted for a detailed budget bill that would gradually reduce federal deficits by $4.4 trillion over 10 years, close loopholes on big corporations and preserve safety net programs. That bill was not perfect – but it was a huge, serious start at looking for a solution to this crushing national debt. Now, we wait for serious proposals to reduce spending from the Senate and the President. I haven't seen one yet.

Politicians in DC talk about "kicking the can down the road," with the "can" representing the national debt. That's a poor analogy. This debt is like rolling a snowball further down the hill. As it rolls, it grows bigger. Now is the time to act to bring this monster under control. Our nation's future and the finances of every family is at stake. We are a debtor nation now. We are heading down the path of Greece. We can change course. I will vote to change course. I won't vote for a plan that pushes the snowball further down the hill.

During my first month in congress, I cosponsored a Constitutional Amendment that would require the government to not spend more than it brings in annually. Washington state's constitution requires the legislature makes sure it runs a balanced checkbook. This is a commonsense measure that would revolutionize spending at the federal level. In 1996, a similar "Balanced Budget Amendment" failed in Congress by one vote. Had it passed, there would be no debt ceiling debate today.

It's time for Congressional leadership and the president to move forward with a reasonable, timely and responsible solution to the debt ceiling issue.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. I invite you to visit my website at www.HerreraBeutler.house.gov for additional information or to sign up to be kept up to date on these issues. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Jaime Herrera Beutler
Member of Congress

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - didn't today's Boehner plan somewhat "kick the can down the road", too? You know, the one she voted for? And her vote in May, didn't that include some changes to Social Security? Maybe my memory is failing me...

Mrs_T — July 29, 2011 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"In May I voted for a detailed budget bill (Ryan Plan).....That bill was not perfect..." LOL!!!

A new def. for understatement.

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — July 29, 2011 at 7:54 p.m.

*We, as taxpayers, have bigger worries.*

A stronger case could be made for being a breathing human, and what you are leaving for the next generation.

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What was the cabon concentration during the Carboniferous Period? Didn't this era include at least one Ice age?

frobert — July 29, 2011 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 29, 2011 at 9:20 p.m.

http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml

mr_basil_seal — July 29, 2011 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***This is the one that gets me;***

Third, this deal must significantly address the overspending. I said that leaders of both parties for decades shared responsibility for the overspending that created this giant debt. It's also true that from 1957 to 2008 federal spending stayed around 20% of our gross domestic product. In just the past two years that number has shot up to 25%.

***Well, duh..***
Bush didn't put his wars into the budget and when Obama came into office, nothing was left out, including the bailout.

hawkeye — July 29, 2011 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry Basil, a scientific question cannot be answered with a political answer.

frobert — July 29, 2011 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party.
The Democrats controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009 as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011.
For FY 2009, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.
Barack Obama was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.
If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending.*

With that said, add Afghanistan and Iraq, the bail outs etc.
You come out with both parties equally guilty of the mess we are in today.

If they will pull their heads out of their backsides and vote to pass Reids plan and stick to it, continue to work to cut spending, maybe just maybe they can pull this country back from the edge.

ELISI — July 29, 2011 at 11:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"...if the Democrats inherited any deficit..." LOL! Don't even know where to begin!!! Right wing engineered blogs can be like robo calls...sigh...both parties equally guilty....heads out of their backsides...constituents?

nailingit — July 29, 2011 at 11:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-a-budget/170469-march-on-washington-for-jobs-hope-and-real-change

Its time to stand up, be counted, and let the politicians know we need to put Americans back to work. Gather together peacefully at the Capitol in Washington, DC or Olympia, WA, Labor Day, Sept 5, 2011.

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 4:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 29, 2011 at 11:10 p.m.

That is "political"?

A comment even more ludicrous Elisi's ".. it is a conspiracy theory forum."

So, walk us through how what is basic college level chem and geology is "political".

mr_basil_seal — July 30, 2011 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat...isn't it wonderful getting away from the rat race and enjoying what the region has to offer??? Enjoy your ride...and keep that life jacket within reach 24/7. We have ours ready and available as well.

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A prime example that intelligence is not at the for front in the debt ceiling debate. David Madore in the facebook section goes so far as to place his granddaughter (sigh) front and center in the debate, accusing Harry Reid of a faltering legacy. It is beyond the pale when people politicize members of their own family...and a young child at that...to pervert what our country is experiencing right now.

I suppose he is leading with the example of not paying his debts that he has borrowed on.

This unreasonable "conservative" partisanship is destroying our country. Unconscionable.

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 8:08 am: Children cannot give informed consent and are at the mercy of their blood relatives to protect their privacy. Shame on those who exploit their dependents to gain attention or make a political point.

The Debt Ceiling: Denmark is the only other democracy that has a debt ceiling and it is so high that it does not need to be raised.

Refusing to pay our bills as a country will cause us to spend more money on interest rates and the falling stock market. This should not even need to be debated. When people try to get a car or home loan, they will find out what that feels like.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Saturday homework for those interested: Debt Ceiling 101.

At least this crisis gave us the opportunity to become better informed citizens.

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=debt_ceiling_101

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my my double donkey widgets!

ELISI — July 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


All persons who enter the political arena, who are contenders for an office, usually introduce their family members at some point. So Madore is jumping the gun a bit...

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I had a minor business matter in Washington County earlier this week. As I crested the west hills,looking west on hwy 26, the sight of logging clear cuts filtered through smoggy haze greeted me...the highway before me was jammed with cars, and the road appeared much like giant metal tentacles of the megatropolis, reaching out to devour and control the natural resources of planet. So depressing....but then my journey west took me past Solar World in Hillsboro, a vast and modern plant producing something that holds promise to save our species. But will it be enough, and in time? Stay tuned for the ongoing drama...

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy-On the breakfast menu, an omelette with mushrooms perhaps?

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Fruit Loops. An astonishing 3g of fiber per serving!

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit and mangoboy: :D

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama and Boehner :::: F

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I've been staying out of the debt ceiling discussion because I don't know that any path being pursued settles anything past the short term. I'm of the belief we have several "bigger" problems that will just push us back to the status quo once this issue is resolved. But that just steers this conversation in a different direction.

The premise of the Teabaggers (and others) is that national debt is bad. Why? We've spent more than has been brought in for years, and it hasn't caused us a problem.

Having said this, I'm developing a growing respect for the people they've elected. These mostly House members are demonstrating they will stand by what they ran on and were elected for. They've changed the playing field by actually representing the will of the people that put them in Washington. Very unlike our traditional Dems and Reps that say one thing to get elected, and then change and suddenly know what's best for us when they get in office. This is the very thing many of us have been castigating Mayor Leavitt for - right? And how about Rep Moeller, who is currently engaged in pursuing a lawsuit against the 2/3 supermajority we voted for in this state? Many of us are arguing that our governments need to slow down on spending until the economy improves. Who is listening?

There's a bottom line to this discussion. Either we're too stupid to be allowed to vote, or our elected reps need to start doing what we want.

roger — July 30, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: If I had confidence in the wisdom of all voters, I might agree with your well-presented opinion at 11:12 am.

Not everyone is as open minded as you appear to be. Not everyone does the research needed to become informed, involved voters.

When I go to the doctor, I have to relinquish a certain degree of control in deference to her/his expertise.

True statemanship involves give and take. Compromise. Flexibility. Open minds. Willingness to change and admit fault. Taking a hard-line absolutist stance is not good governance.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As for being too stupid to be allowed to vote: The Founding Fathers had very little confidence in the ability of the masses to be informed and educated enough to make a direct choice for President. Hence, the birth of the Electoral College.

I am glad that we all have the right to vote. Everyone. What is happening now is historic. It may be good. It may be catastrophic. It may be neutral, when all the dust settles.

I just wish legislators would find more common ground.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


God help me, I have to add one more thought: I never expect my elected leaders to do everything I want, roger. The world does not revolve around me. My ideas may be based on faulty thinking errors. My ideas may be based on the best and most salient research out there. My ideas may be the product of a broken and diseased brain. My ideas may be based on pure emotion and sound bites fed to me by mass media.

I want to elect leaders I trust to make some hard decisions on my behalf, who have the depth of experience and insight to compromise when it is in the best interest of the health of our country. I am not going to have all the information that they have access to. So we have leaders who are at odds right now about what that looks like. We are at an impasse that is historic and I think that threatens the health of our country.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 30, 2011 at 12:07 p.m.

Wow, that's the best I've ever read. You need to send THAT to Jamie and Boehner and Reid.

hawkeye — July 30, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If the tea-baggers wish to slash federal spending without raising taxes during these economic times, they're sadly mistaken. The last two fairly severe recessions were followed by extensive growth and government hiring at all levels. No biggee then, a rapidly growing economy covered it. Pulling the plug on domestic spending by the feds will kill economic recovery right now. Federal domestic spending goes staight into the economy and it needs those dollars.

Get the economy rolling, then tackle the debt problem. It shouldn't be done right now. Teabaggers be careful. You might get what you wish for.

mrd — July 30, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Great write manthou and I'm sure you articulated how so many feel! Thanks for the informative link.

roger- These people are doing what they were voted in to do? I'm not sure I'm following you. I remember that the 2010 House Republicans ran almost strictly on a jobs creation platform. What have they done in this area and what are they planning to do?

Among many other agenda items they are springing on the American public, I can't remember them running on a platform in which we as a country have decided not to pay for our bills, running our expenses up even further with higher interest rates, to suffer a drop in our credit rating and give the finger to the rest of the world. With all due respect.

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Craig Riley's canvassers were just here, talking about his campaign to take the vacated Jim Jacks seat. His literature is putting the blame on Olympia for not "leading us out of the recession." And he wants to know how we feel about tolls. He is taking the persona of government dragon slayer-pretty standard republican party approach. He has a nice dark suit, white shirt, and red tie on the flyer, of course.

mangoboy — July 30, 2011 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""A prime example that intelligence is not at the for front in the debt ceiling debate. David Madore in the facebook section goes so far as to place his granddaughter (sigh) front and center in the debate, accusing Harry Reid of a faltering legacy."""

Looks like someone is suffering a severe case of Madore Derangement Syndrome, today. Nailingit...don't you have anything better to do with your life...like maybe volunteering at Fort Vancouver or taking up a hobby away from your computer??? One sentence by Madore and *that's all you can come up with???*

Now if it had been someone like me speaking our mind regarding what be in the future for my grandchildren or the grandchildren of anyone other than a wealthy man in Clark County who isn't afraid to speak his mind...we'd just receive the usual personal attacks as well...no doubt about it. So now that I've said this...here comes our friendly widget (thanks for the word, ELISI) ready to throw out his best at me!!! No biggie though. I could say a one-word sentence and nailingit would have to come up with something ridiculous and off the wall to counter it.

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


David Madore's statement:

*Harry Reid’s solution to the financial insanity is to raise the debt limit by $2.7 trillion? And in 2012 another $2.7 trillion, and in 2014..
He is leaving quite a legacy for my granddaughter.*

Folks, Harry Reid would be credited for what would come if the House had approved it. Funny, I didn't see "faltering legacy" in Madore's verbiage. I believe the words were *"Quite a Legacy."* This would be left to the opinion of the reader yet some readers take it as they see it. As far as I'm concerned...raising the debt limit in this manner is only festering the current situation and postponing the inevitable. I'm in agreement with Mr. Madore. It is financial insanity.

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Really, who cares what the limit is?*** Just because you have a $10,000 limit on your credit card, does that mean you have to use it ALL? Are you all that irresponsible? Make the damn limit whatever you want, then cut as much as you can and figure a way to balance the budget. It's going to take time and co-operation that isn't there right now. If they don't get it done by 2012, guess who won't be getting re-elected.

hawkeye — July 30, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**(s) **But Hawkeye...that's the American Way! Spend till it's gone. There's always a new credit limit somewhere!!! Someone's always there to give us more, more, more!!! We can always pay it later, right??? um...yeah, right. **(s)**

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...and hawk...just to set the record straight...I wholeheartedly agree with your point at 3:59 pm.

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 3:59...that seems to be the Republican plan to defeat Obama. Kill the economy. They haven't got a candidate the majority of them will get behind, as a result Obama can outspend any GOP wannabee that's put up. They committed political suicide signing onto the RyanCare plan, and they have a speaker of the house who is totally inept as a leader. People that voted Red in 2010 are getting their asses handed to them and they won't forget at the polls.

goldenoldie- You don't seem very Zen like today!! I didn't mean to offend you or one of your current conservative leaders. My apologies to you and Mr. Madore if either of you were offended by my remarks.

I just think it stinks when conservatives or anyone else use their children to score a political point. :=))...calm down!

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Where's the new Press Talk column that was published in the print version today? Are they keeping it off line now?

It was meant to embarrass Temple Lentz for a long-ago short and blunt F U email she sent. She took a good swipe at the editor in last week's Press Talk, did you all notice?

Pay back?

(Just my feeble attempt to change to subject to something local, light, and mildly gossipy)

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey manthou .. local, light and mildly gossipy sounds refreshing:)) I'm not up to speed but it does sound interesting!

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah. Lou B was given an old email Temple Lentz sent to her boss, Tim Leavitt, during his mayoral campaign. In response to his asking her to review an email response he was about to send to this editor, she suggested a simple alternative: Just tell him F U or F Off, something like that. Short, sweet, and oh-so profane. Not unlike something we would send to a friend. But here it is, a couple years later, resurrected on The Columbian.

It is an old email. Not relevant really, except to try to embarrass her. As if. I am sure she gives a rip. :)

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why do you think the paper printed it? Grudge? Politics? Could this be the gossipy part? :))

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I do notice reporters browsing emails sent to city and county legislators now and using them in stories lately. They are public record, of course.

So be careful boys and girls. What you put in print to our fine elected officials may wind up in a Columbian story someday. :)

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit@8:53 pm: Good question! I wondered that after I read it in the paper this morning and was looking forward to the FB remarks, especially from Temple Lentz herself.

The only reason for doing this, in my opinion, is shame and humiliation with a bit rubbing off on Tim Leavitt, who had tha audacity to name her as his campaign manager.

I think it is strange it is not online. This is the first Press Talk, in my memory, that did not make it here from the paper.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I had a hunch The Daily 'Couve would parody it and I just checked. Sure enough: take a look at the July 28th entry. Better yet, read as much as you can and laugh, laugh, laugh:

http://dailycouve.blogspot.com/

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

You have the faith that wiser heads will prevail, the adults will take charge, and we'll do an 11th plus hour pullback from the lemming-like rush to disaster we're being told we face if the debt isn't raised.

I'm hoping you're correct. The TV news financial gurus are spas'ing over the hits their 401K plans are taking, and I've heard a depression predicted a couple of times.

I'm a cynic. It would be nice if our leaders were really making informed decisions that benefit us as a whole (even if we don't agree with some of their decisions). But, as you note, they act like they really don't know what's best for us and don't appear able to move to a common ground.

And the traditional leadership (Pres Obama, Boehner, Reed, et.al.) are all lightweights who have yet to show they're any better at playing nice than the Teabaggers are. Nancy Pelosi may not have been the most dynamic Speaker, but she had this crowd beat when it came to wielding her power.

roger — July 30, 2011 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 9:03 LOL!!! I suppose there's something to be said for collective thought!

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Oh, I hear ya. I think the significance of all this political wrangling hit me the hardest today when I heard that Admiral Mike Mullen had to tell troops in Afghanistan this week, in response to their worried questions of him, that he could not guarantee that they would be paid.

http://www.thefrontierpost.com/?p=38432

Unbelievable.

Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Military salaries. All are pawns in this game.

manthou — July 30, 2011 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 30, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

Thanks, that was fun.

Hey Lou, heard from Tim lately?

hawkeye — July 30, 2011 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...I'm not sounding "Zen Like?" Why would you say that? I've actually had a pretty good day...it started great and is ending just as well as it started and tomorrow's an even better day. Just because I point something out, expecting a little clarification doesn't necessarily mean I'm not at peace with myself. That's okay, though. I'm glad you did clarify your statement to include people other than just the conservative side of things when it comes to what you perceive as exploitation of little ones, even though you have told me in so many words in a previous post that you wouldn't waste your time with me. In Mr. Madore's case though... no name was used, no picture and no age were shared. Hardly an exploitation much like politicians who march around stage with their family at their side, even when the children are obviously unhappy to do so like one of the two sweetie pies in the White House had clearly shown during election time. And nailingit, you didn't offend me. As far as Mr. Madore is concerned...I can't speak for the man. I was merely sharing discussion.

Now you go and have yourself a nice evening, nailingit. Tomorrow's another day. Think positive. You will have a good day.

Good Night All!!!

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Night goldenoldie!!!

nailingit — July 30, 2011 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you, nailingit. The same goes for you.

goldenoldie — July 30, 2011 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This rather reminds me of a few who no longer post here:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/2011/07/27/ultraconservatives-see-socialists-everywhere/

and one who has been banned from the FB side after being banned here twice......

mr_basil_seal — July 31, 2011 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil, thanks for the smiles this morning. Isn't it amazing that people are so quick to label someone just because they don't agree with their position in politics??? If only the partisan banter would only stop and people would work together to reach a conclusion without the negative rhetoric...

Have a great day Basil and everyone else!!! Unlike the rest of the country right now, the weather here is just right today! I love the Pacific Northwest climate.

goldenoldie — July 31, 2011 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If what is being reported is true, about three Trillion in cuts over ten years without tax revenue or serious job investment, that Obama once again gave away the farm...

I just wrote Senator Murray asking her to please have a serious discussion on the hill about a different presidential candidate other than Barack Obama to represent us, the people. We might as well have a Republican in the White House as this guy when it comes to Economic policy, War, Human Rights, Social policy.....what the hell is left anyway. Half the populace seems to blur the lines of responsibility in order to pursue their agenda. These Dems need to stand up for us!!!

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, nailingit. I have heard similar thoughts from others lately.

If people truly look at this situation objectively, we are being led by a moderate Republican president. All Democrats have been pushed to the right.

The working middle class and poor may suffer the greatest loss from this still elusive compromise, while the wealthy and huge corporations maintain their tax breaks without creating the jobs we need.

What I do not understand is this: how can people keep voting against their own best interests? I won't. I thought I didn't.

manthou — July 31, 2011 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alley we need new leadership in the White House......these people are pathetic.

Often times I think Hillary Clinton NEVER would have tolerated this ridiculous take over of our country. I heard a former Reagan advisor the other day describe Obama as a conservative leaning to the right...spot on. I'm afraid we elected a closet Republican in 2008 and didn't know it.

This could very well be the end of capitalism as we know it. And we have no one to blame but ourselves.

It's too bad we haven't learned squat about history......how many hundreds of years will it take for us to catch up with what Europe already knows? After the financial apocalypse we are putting ourselves into that is............man....what an O'bummer ;((

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


God morning manthou. A sobering morning indeed. I won't understand if the Senate passes such a measure. Not with the 14th option available as a last resort.

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Pretty soon Obama's only going to give interviews to Fox news like every other talking corporative box. Amazing. Does anyone not see what is wrong with this super congress idea??? If these people don't agree on cuts at the table then across the board cuts will happen! Education Medicare etc.....the Republicans would filibuster just to make this happen! What is going on here?!?

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I just heard, for what its worth on the news, that Medicare cuts would be triggered IF a Super Committee is not successful in finding ways to cut spending in a significant way by Thanksgiving.

Are you watching MSNBC? They are showing highlights of the potential agreement now.

Regardless, whatever is proposed has to pass both Houses. The 14th amendment does not seem to be an option favored by the Executive branch.

manthou — July 31, 2011 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- watching MSNBC while getting ready to get out in this great weather. Medicare is also on the table...what can we do? The 14th isn't a good option in my opinion... it should be used only as a last resort...to avoid what the president seems to be embracing. It wouldn't be good to have a constitutional battle over the 14th Amend brewing through the election next year. The Republicans are constantly providing news worthy substantive scandals to take note of, and I wouldn't trust this Roberts court to decide anything favorable to this president.

Having said that... using the 14th option is in my opinion much favorable then letting this Tea Party controlled congress dictate to the American people.

What can we do? I never would have thought that a Democrat in the White House with the backing of a majored United States Senate could ever allow this to be happening.

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...manthou I meant to say Social Security is also on the table....this is like a bad dream for Dems...I have to think that Republicans overall are grinning like the cat that ate the mouse...especially some of the old timers. They know what their getting. Even most Republican presidents would be hesitant about cuts this severe...and in times when it's crucial to invest.

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, this agreement is predicted to pass, if it does, with two-thirds Republican support to one-third Democratic support.

It is out of our puny hands right now, nailingit. So, enjoy this beautiful day, as I will. Send positive thoughts and visualize a healthy country as you have fun in the sun! :)

__________________________

The Daily 'Couve blog: no one knows who the clever author(s) of this funny blog is/are. Could it be some of the talented young Columbian reporters? Just wondering.

manthou — July 31, 2011 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Increase spending cuts, increase the debt ceiling incrementally (will it need voted on each time?), institute a Constitutional Balanced Budget amendment, and NO tax increases.

THEY are scared, and this plays directly to the Tea Party.

The question is, will Pres Obama cave and sign it? He's got to be history if he does - this (non)compromise goes against everything the Dems stand for.

roger — July 31, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What's the "rest of the story" with this Temple Lentz business? I've read your posts and the linked Daily Couve satire, and see that a while back she sent an e-mail to Tim Leavitt suggesting he tell Lou B to F-off, and that she was his campaign manager at the time. So, I can guess this was during the last mayoral election. But why would The Columbian want to resurrect this? Hasn't Mayor Tim done a nice 180 and decided to play nice with Identity and others that The Columbian also supports?

roger — July 31, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou - Are you suggesting that just maybe there's a bit of a revolt at The Columbian? That would be interesting.

roger — July 31, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I don't know. I just noticed that Saturday's Press Talk, which appeared to be written only to embarrass Temple Lentz and Tim Leavitt, has not been posted online.

I also noticed that Temple Lentz wrote a FB comment to last week's Press Talk, chiding the editor for not supporting his reporters.

Was the following Press Talk pay back? Was the FB move an attempt to keep frustrated Columbian staffers from sparring online anonymously with their boss?

Do I have something better to do than perpetuate this silliness? I am mildly ashamed and marginally embarrassed.....

manthou — July 31, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt, Libby, et.al.,

When is The Columbian going to realize nothing has been gained by the facebook experiment? It's time to move toward reintegrating the basement dwellers.

John Laird's newest editorial is a perfect example of something we ought to be able to jump in on. The comments being posted are all geared to reacting to John's slam of the Teabaggers, and completely overlook the short comment he makes that is much more important -

"Perhaps sooner, probably later, the Tea Party types will succumb to fatigue and realize nothing gets accomplished in politics outside the two-party system. Complaining about the system is futile. The alternative is a third party, which only helps the party you hate the most."

I heard this being set forth as gospel in my Poli Sci classes back in the early '70s, with France and Italy being used as examples of the turmoil caused by multi-party systems. At the time Eugene Debs and the Socialist party was our main 20th Century 3rd party of any relevance, and that movement was squashed. But later we had Ross Peroit in '92, and he actually gained enough of Pres Bush I's base to hand the election to Clinton.

I'm thinking many of the Baggers were Peroit backers and learned from that experience. Which is why they're trying to coopt the Republican party from the old guard.

roger — July 31, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger,

Its not about which party can win and which can't. To me, it is what I believe. Only portions of each major party aligns with my beliefs. So I have no chose but to opt out, until a third party comes along to more closely match what I believe is right for the country. George Will has an interesting article today about the Libertarian resurgence. But the Libertarians do not seem to recognize the essential functions of government, and take civil liberties too far...

mangoboy — July 31, 2011 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — July 31, 2011 at 11:25 a.m.

How can one take civil liberties too far?

frobert — July 31, 2011 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert-

"Civil liberties" of adults are in conflict with the civil liberties and human rights of children, for example.

Also, unrestrained individual rights will at some point come into conflict with communal rights, or the "greater good."

Of course, if the greater good is controlled by self serving political ideologies and their clone operatives, change or even revolution is necessary...

A more perfect union would include not only "constitutional rights, but human rights, including children's rights.

"I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts;... no longer will they have the need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know...these natural laws."

mangoboy — July 31, 2011 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy,

Opting out and waiting for a third party is probably no longer an option. The two major parties have reached accord that their mutual preservation requires they keep the other parties at the level of being on the fringes and statistically insignificant. (Ross Perot and the Reform Party caught them by surprise.) Parties with a legitimate message (e.g. the American Libertarian Party) attract followers, but not enough to make it into a position where they can accomplish much.

Haven said this, the Republican Party bears watching. The Tea Party types are trying to make it their own. The traditional Repubs have a tough road - go too far right and they'll lose the majority of independent voters.

When talking about Libertarians in this country, we tend to think of the American Libertarian Party, which I think has their philosophy driven by the Cato Institute, Ayn Rand, et.al. There are other branches - my personal choice would be the libertarian socialist philosophy espoused by Noam Chomskey. There is no private ownership of resources; the government (often stated as the workers) own and control production. My fear, however, is that this would too easily lead to a return to Stalin's collectivism - human nature being what it is.

roger — July 31, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, I don't buy that children should have civil liberties. They should have rights, to include food, shelter, education, protection, etc. But they should not be allowed to exercise self determination. That negates the role of parenting. And it's thinking they do have civil liberties that's led to the epidemic of little thugs we have in this country.

roger — July 31, 2011 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, your last post is spot on

rincon1 — July 31, 2011 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""If what is being reported is true, about three Trillion in cuts over ten years without tax revenue or serious job investment, that Obama once again gave away the farm..."""
"""...this is like a bad dream for Dems...I have to think that Republicans overall are grinning like the cat that ate the mouse...especially some of the old timers."""*

Nailingit, I don't want you to think I am singling you out here for some wild attack as that is not my intention. I chose your two statements because of the mere fact...

I think a lot of us are wondering the very same thing! To threaten the very existence of those who worked hard their entire years of employment by stripping them of SSI and Medicare benefits is in my opinion, just about as lowlife as the Nazi's shipping families in trains with the passengers thinking they were destined for the borders. What Alleycat has shared at 8:11, 8:23 and 8:32 is definitely something for everyone to ponder. (I especially agree with the message in bold, Alley.)

...

Folks, even with whatever passes this week...the worst is not over. That road ahead is going to be quite bumpy so get your hardhats on. In other words...be prepared for whatever is to come even if it means to keep a closer eye on your elderly relative or neighbor. And if you can...help those who really need the help whether it's buying a bag of food for the local church to provide for those who don't have any food or the local food bank, going through your closets to see if you have any extra clothing you aren't using or extra blankets just collecting dust... or even giving of your time to make a difference. You just never know when the one who wishes someone could help them...

Might Be You.

Our politicians have all but let us down in the past several years...so now is the time for the people to stand up and make a case...to preserve our communities and to keep the human infrastructure strong.

In other words...give of your heart and don't give up.

goldenoldie — July 31, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/business-us_business/

Well folks...it looks like they're finally admitting things aren't recovering like they said it was.

goldenoldie — July 31, 2011 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger-

I guess my point would be in many instances the role of parenting is not working, and parental rights and civil liberties of the parents unchecked can have a hugely damaging effect on children not to mention other vulnerable minorities.So the state has to be involved to protect/nurture the defenseless.

I respect Noam Chomsky but I would not favor any kind of system where the government owns and controls everything.

The major parties have no threat from a legitimate third party because they know how dumb the voters are, who repeatedly fall for the same lines, the same false promises, year after year. And as long as life is somewhat tolerable, the cattle will keep munching at the trough and plowing their furrows. They don't believe in the deepest recesses of their souls they have a right to a job, basic medical care, and a shelter. They believe the Constitution is a sacred text, we are wealthy because God has chosen to reward us for good behavior, climate change and earth resource depletion is a hoax, criminals should be brought to justice after invading and pacifying the countries they reside in, the more guns we have, the safer we are, unborn children are not human, but corporations are, and many other perverse, illogical beliefs propagated by political/religious institutions.

Throughout history, every government eventually is replaced by another. Hopefully, something better will replace what we have now...

Until then, I vote for no one. I only support causes, NGO's, and selectively, legislation.

mangoboy — July 31, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've often referred to this tea party movement as nothing but Ross Perot in a skirt.

I've come to realize our current president is becoming Jimmy Carter in a kilt.

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The supercongress is nothing more than another useless committee given a fancy name. They will have no real power.
The deal will go through, and the sacred cows will not be touched significantly. And these poor overwhelmed legislators are going to breathe a big sigh of relief, because they just invented a brand new financial instrument for the Fed--a 50 or hundred year amortizing, flexible rate mortgage for the nations debt!! How brilliant. All we have to do is just keep plowing away, that's our job, to maintain the middle class lifestyle and all the entitlements for everyone else. Enjoy your two weeks of vacation. Don't worry, the bills will be waiting for you when you get home...

mangoboy — July 31, 2011 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — July 31, 2011 at 4:50 p.m.

The "super congress" is just a committee, anything it proposes, still has to be voted on by the body. Each house of congress adopts it's own rules under Article 1 Section 5 of the constitution. Unlike the mythical 14th amendment option, this is perfectly constitutional and legal.

frobert — July 31, 2011 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> ...and one who has been banned from the FB side after being banned here twice......
> mr_basil_seal — July 31, 2011 at 6:48 a.m.

Are you referring to boblarimer? He has been banned? If so, can you please explain what he did to get himself banned?

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm curious regarding the decision in DC...and yes it has to do with light rail...

Doesn't this cut the budget for Federal Transit Funding across the US? I'm wondering if they still have that $850 million dollar unsigned check still available. If not...does that mean they will still come after the taxpayer/toll payer to pay for the whole package???

I was reading in a couple of other articles that stated Head Start and Meals on Wheels will be facing some hits as well. Anybody have a link to the list of the proposed budget cuts which will come with this agreement once it is signed???

goldenoldie — July 31, 2011 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


~When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross~

Sinclair Lewis

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What's up kn_dalai?

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well gee whiz nailingit. Ha! there you R.

You are one of my most favorite people that I love to hate. Or maybe that I hate to love.

In the absence of BS, maybe you can explain what boblarimer has done to be expelled from the message board?

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Question: Is there anyone on this Forum who identifies with the Tea Party platform?

If so, would you be willing to help me understand how you feel about the prospect of SS and Medicare cuts? Was this what you expected?

I am not trying to bait or be mean. I promise I will not personally attack you. I do not personally know anyone who identifies with the Tea Party, so I am asking a question that I hope someone who does can help me answer.

manthou — July 31, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai- Sorry for the delay. I can't say for sure. From the some of the facebook comments and his lack of posting I believe his bassholyness has left the station! I remember someone intimated he insulted a Columbian staff member...I think Stephanie Rice. Perhaps the staff is less tolerant when it comes to them then they are the average reader.

nailingit — July 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 7:30 p.m.

He opened his mouth and spoke his "mind".

hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

So what? What's your point?

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I reiterate to bs: Are you referring to boblarimer? He has been banned? If so, can you please explain what he did to get himself banned?

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> He opened his mouth and spoke his "mind".
> hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

Do you realise what you just said? No, you do not. It is disgusting. And people like you have the nerve to call yourselves moderates.

And then advocate silencing those who you cannot personally stand.

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 10:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On 7/27 there was an article on Clark County Budget shortfall (that no longer seems to be here) and Bob made some comments to and about the writer. The post was eliminated quickly as was the whole article. Neither have been seen since.

hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 10:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have NEVER been in favor of silencing anyone. Everyone has the right to their opinion as do I. If you don't like it, too bad. Why is it "disgusting"? Because YOU don't like it, who cares what YOU want?

hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 10:18 p.m

"Do you "realise" what you just said?"

Nope, but I do *realize* what I just wrote.

hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll deal with you later badeye, for the time being, I'm interested in BS's thoughts on the demise of boblarimer.

Is that what happened? boblarimer was booted? How come?

And people like you believe in, What? personal liberty?

What do you call it: Oh yes Libertarian Socialism.

Of course its all dependent on collectiviism from the get go, but you people call it Libertarian.

And where is boblarimer? Why...he's relegated to the basement, so people like you can preen your feathers, and laugh, and ridicule free speech while you, HAHA of course, relegate boblarimer to the basement.

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 11:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And again, who cares what you want?

hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 11:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 31, 2011 at 10:19 p.m.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

kn_dalai — July 31, 2011 at 11:27 p.m. (

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/ju...

mr_basil_seal — August 1, 2011 at 12:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Columbian!!! Anybody have any particulars in the reportedly explosive house fire on Lieser earlier this morning? Mark Glyzewski with KPTV was reporting there was a deceased individual found in the backyard.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/au...

Okay people, my comment regarding the Columbian article link above has nothing to do with the fact that there's farms in the US who hire immigrants, legal or not...but instead, I am bringing to your attention what it is they are picking in the photo caption. Look at what they are wearing!

**Employees pick strawberries on Steve Sakuma's farm outside of Burlington. On a hot mid-July morning, they wear long sleeves and pants, hoods, gloves and face masks as protection from pesticides. Sakuma estimates that 80 percent of his workers are illegal immigrants.**

Why is that? Because of the pesticides on the strawberry plants. Doesn't that strawberry shortcake sound just so yummy right now???

Disgusting in my opinion that the produce picked is even allowed to be sold to the public.

Columbian...thanks for bringing in this article which clearly shows everyone just what it is we are receiving from the farms. Sometimes that "fresh" produce isn't as healthy as we think.

Here's the information about the farm depicted in the picture. Note they have a "small fruit research lab" mentioned in the link below.

http://www.sustainablenorthwest.org/stories/sakuma-brothers/

It concerns me when "sustainable" is blended with GM growing and research labs. Care to see who these guys rub elbows with??? Great!!! Tillamook Cheese, too???

http://nwagbizseminar.com/NWAE%20Seminar%20Brochure%202010%20FINAL.pdf

BIG, BIG sigh....

All the more reason to grow my own vegetables and fruit, sustaining my garden without pesticides and herbicides produced by Monsanto and Dow Chemical. It's bad enough the pollution is attacking them.

goldenoldie — August 1, 2011 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just a short note bs: being banned is not the same thing as having comments deleted.

And Badeye, realise and realize, are both acceptable spellings. I could go on about other errors in your petty jibes, but there's no point.

kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — August 1, 2011 at 5:45 p.m

You know if you were smarter than a 5th grader, you would have figured out by now that being banned means ALL of your posts have disappeared not just the offending ones. Although most did offend. Go ahead, try to find some.

hawkeye — August 1, 2011 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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