Open Forum, June 27- July 3

Published:

 

Most read stories on Columbian.com last week:

No. 1) Battle Ground man arrested in alleged sex crimes involving Oregon teen

No. 2) Kiss rocker Gene Simmons spends sleepy night in Battle Ground

No. 3) Man, 22, found dead at Round Lake

No. 4) Vancouver man charged with burglary, rape in Cowlitz County

No. 5) Woman shot after reportedly advancing on officer

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336 comments

Comments

GOOD MORNING COLUMBIAN !!!!

Lets see, what's in the news.

***OK, lets keep the liquor stores open longer.*** More overtime, more costs to the state and just why are we doing that? Oh yea, there's a new petition to privatize alcohol sales in Washington so either they are afraid it will pass and they are trying to give the state employees a nest egg or they are afraid it will pass and they are trying to be more consumer friendly or they are just afraid it will pass and they are just trying to look good.

Either way, I don't think it's working.

***Michelle Bachmann is running for President***. This is news?

The Pulitzer Prize-winning web site PolitiFact, for example, has fact-checked 23 Bachmann statements. The result: one statement is rated as “true” (regarding Obama and the debt ceiling), two are judged to be “half true,” four “barely true,” nine “false,” and seven “pants on fire!” – including Bachmann’s assertion that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi had a “$100,000 bar tab for alcohol on the military jets that she's flying.”

Even Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, who might have been expected to be friendlier (or at least more polite), asked Bachmann: “Are you a flake?” Her answer, well she didn't deny it.

hawkeye — June 27, 2011 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK cat, back away from the coffee pot.

hawkeye — June 27, 2011 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well hawkeye it's obvious you don't care for Bachmann and that's fine, but like Paul Harvey used to say, "Here's the rest of the story". Chris Wallace's apology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMvdY...

scotty — June 27, 2011 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's OK scotty. Of course we don't know what happened between the interview and this clip, could be that the powers at Faux (not the news) told Wallace that he screwed up and told him to "fix" it or Bachmann complained after reviewing the interview or maybe Wallace is just covering his butt, who knows. I did see the interview and she never really answered the question and she appears (IMO) to be a flake. And if she has that appearance to me AND others, the question really is, how effective could she possibly be as the President?

hawkeye — June 27, 2011 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh wonderful, liquor stores to remain open longer...just what we need...more drunks on the streets longer.

Wallace is trying to save his job...he opened his mouth too much like Rather did.

Bachmann for president? LMAO

ELISI — June 27, 2011 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What do you guys think of the new requirement of faceplant accounts? I joined just to be able to post on the Columbian, and not even sure if they are being seen by everyone. The Columbian required access to all kinds of where I have been information, going to be interesting how it will be used.
Miss the old style guys, and in input you folks brought to the discussions.

AllenAnderson — June 27, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Notice how the discussions are so much tamer... less the trolls of course.

AllenAnderson — June 27, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I can't believe people are bashing Bachmann. Personally, I think she is the most refreshing candidate for President. Bachmann has opened this Conservatar...Conservative's eyes! For example, when my daughter was younger, I allowed her to watch the Lion King Disney movie. Well, thanks to Bachmann, who warned that the Lion King was "Gay Propaganda", I now understand why my daughter is so good at basketball. Further, I am no longer afraid of carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, because Bachmann informed me that "not one study can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas". This summer I will visiting Iraq again, because Bachmann stated that Iraq was "like visiting any mall of America" (of course I remember it was damn scary, but that is because I was a Liberal back then...I think?). People need to give her a chance, stop comparing her statements to things like the truth...I mean Liberal lies, and just listen to the informative reporting of Bachmann on FoxNews.

seamuscallan — June 27, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The Columbian required access to all kinds of where I have been information,"

Could you be more specific. I'm curious.

mrd — June 27, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamuscallan = LOL

PadmaRani — June 27, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, I'm curious as well about what you meant. If you have strict security controls on your profile, we at the Columbian can't see anything. The account creation and log-in process is entirely through Facebook. Because the account isn't through us, we don't require or see anything about where you've been.

Matt Wastradowski — June 27, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Oh wonderful, liquor stores to remain open longer...just what we need...more drunks on the streets longer."

ELISI — June 27, 2011 at 8:41 a.m.

Actually, longer hours will cut down on DUII. It is why I am pushing for the sale of liquor to be privatized and available in regular stores as well. When you have someone that gets off work late or works an off-shift that gets out later, what do they do when they want to have a drink after work? They go to the bar. Many people would be more likely to stop by the store and pick up something to take home if the option were available to them. Most DUII's are due to people leaving businesses that serve alcohol, not driving after having a drink at home.

Striker991 — June 27, 2011 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK everyone, this is the second time I have seen this statement in a CRC article:
"the project hopes to have a federal Record of Decision, which allows final design and construction to begin, by the end of the year."
If they are starting construction by the END OF THE YEAR, could this be why they WANT TO DELAY A VOTE OF THE CITIZENS UNTIL NEXT YEAR WHEN IT IS TOO LATE to STOP the train from leaving the station????????

tax_payer — June 27, 2011 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Tax_payer: When it comes to the mentality of those promoting the crossing project...it is my opinion that their brains left the train station a long, long time ago.

Besides....Mayor Leaveitt said a long time ago that the City of Vancouver has no say on decisions about the crossing project and that it's in the hands of the feds. Now all of a sudden we should care about what One-term Timmy and his buddies have to say about the project????

goldenoldie — June 27, 2011 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, I am fed up with a lot of things right now and am about ready to take to the streets. If someone asked, I am ready to go. In fact, I am about ready to go without anyone asking..... Golden...can't agree with you more.....

tax_payer — June 27, 2011 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The U.S. Supreme Court voted Monday to strike down a California law banning the sale of violent videogames to minors, holding by a 7-2 majority that it violated the First Amendment.

What a totally twisted and perverted interpretation of the First Amendment. Can't these experts on law step out of their legal world for a minute and just do what is right? No, sorry, the regulations here say we have to follow this or that rule or precedent.The most violence prone country in the world and they are just adding fuel to the fire.
These black-robed adjudicators of death have no sense of right or wrong, only what is "lawful."

As for the CRC, I am still waiting for one brave soul in this entire county to walk across the bridge on the pedestrian bike path, narrow as it is, with a sign of protest. That is Free Speech, yet no one is using their right. Use it or lose it! What should be the short but sweet and to the point motto? This whole CRC project encapsulates so much of what is wrong with not just our region, but the entire country. Just throw objects, people, whatever, in the garbage when they start to show some signs of wear and tear.

mangoboy — June 27, 2011 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — June 27, 2011 at 9:39 p.m.

I find it surprising and refreshing that 7 justices actually read the 1st amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

How is enforcing what the founder's wrote twisting or perverting?

frobert — June 27, 2011 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — June 27, 2011 at 9:39 p.m

Huh, how about the parents actually do THEIR job for once and not leave it up to some black robed snobs.

Or is that too much to ask of those that are supposed to be responsible for their mistakes.

hawkeye — June 27, 2011 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — June 27, 2011 at 10:09 p.m.

This may be the first time I agree with you. With a little personal responsibility you can eliminate half our laws.

frobert — June 27, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Four more days left for Glenn Beck to use Fox as a sound board, and four more days for Fox to use Beck as their mouthpiece.

With a little personal responsibility we could eliminate half of Fox news.

nailingit — June 27, 2011 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 27, 2011 at 11:35 p.m

And with all the Networks spouting your dribble, why do you have issue with the one that doesn't?

frobert — June 27, 2011 at 11:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...my dribble...hmmm.

(transitive verb) dribble: 1> to issue sporadically and in small bits 2> to let or cause to fall little by little 3> to propel by successive light taps with hand or foot 4> a word that self proclaimed experts on the subject of the constitution use, when said experts are so ill informed as to not distinguish between the word "dribble" and the intended word drivel

My God. What has happened to education in our country. Oh yeah. Guys like this think education is government overreach! LOL!!!

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 12:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When I'm elected President I'll require every republican/conservative that is of voting age to pass a third grade level comprehension course. In addition mandatory basic math and english courses to be completed online. Much of this dumbing down "phenomena" our society is experiencing must be related to religious "homeschooling". Hawk let's track the trends on this and run the numbers through our analytical department. We'll name it 'Project frobro".

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 1:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A couple thoughts in issues surrounding our daily lives:

Yesterday, the US Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional to prevent minors from purchasing video games with violent content.

Why???

..

*"A majority of the Vancouver City Council voiced support Monday night for the Columbia River Crossing’s draft Final Environmental Impact Statement."

"The Final Environmental Impact Statement is expected to be completed by the end of September. The CRC hopes to have a federal Record of Decision, which allows final design and construction to begin, by the end of the year.

"Councilwoman Jeanne Stewart questioned why the Record of Decision will be completed before local residents vote next year on an operations and maintenance sales tax increase for light rail. Citizens were promised a vote on whether light rail is necessary, she said."

"" “It doesn’t look to me the citizens will have an opportunity to vote on this in any meaningful way,” Stewart said. She was the only councilor not in support of the document.""*

It goes without saying on what iI really want to say right now, but I'll keep it clean only because I know somebody is "censor happy.." Let's just say my mind is like an aggravated hornet's nest at this moment. And how can anybody agree to something which isn't even finalized? Just who is getting paid to agree to something not even in final print? ...hehe, well, most of us already know who will benefit from the project and I'd be gambling on the fact that those who will benefit will not be riding the rails, either..except to catch in a Blazer game or a concert at the Rose Garden, only because they're too damned cheap to pay for parking!

Some people think there's no signs of corruption at the city council's desk. As far as I'm concerned, the polecat is running across the table and has been for several years and it's scent glands are more potent than ever before. People, just why do you vote these people into office? Stop voting on emotions, would ya??? Ten years down the road, you'll all be scratching your heads asking *"Whu Happened???"*

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Yesterday, the US Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional to prevent minors from purchasing video games with violent content.

Why???"-----Goldenoldie

GO- I can answer the "why", because the United States SC actually gets it right occasionally and supports constitutional rights. At least I hope so! My wife and I do not allow our children access to those items, but....you know...choice, freedom, those type of things.

Oh, and good morning.

seamuscallan — June 28, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye, frobert,

Parents have ultimate responsibility. But any parent will also tell you they cannot be watching their kids 24 hours a day, especially with instant access to media.

Meanwhile you have news organizations like the Columbian trying to shut down free speech by requiring a lot of personal information before making comments. The average Facebooker does not know they are being extracted, telephone solicitors are hiring people to go through Facebook and dredge up info on likely victims to their telemarketing schemes. People have no idea whats happening and how susceptible they are. At least the elderly will not be victimized by facebook because they don't join...

goldenoldie,

Its kind of pointless. Look at the stories readers of the Columbian and residents follow above. They simply could not care less about the big issues, only read to get their daily gossip/National Enquirer fix. The Columbian Readers, present company excluded, will get what they deserve in the political arena and the plans for the region.

mangoboy — June 28, 2011 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO @ 6:14 am: Sometimes our intuition or "gut feelings" give us good info about a candidate. If there is a discrepancy between what politicians are saying and what our gut and emotions tell us, sometimes it is good to listen to that inner voice. :)

Press Talk: Eli Pariser's book, "The Filter Bubble" was discussed extensively and intelligently on the "basement" Forums over the past two months. I know I experience serendipity on this web community every day and take away information that is valuable. Hope you fine journalists (I am not using the sarcasm font here) learn something surprising sometimes when you visit here, too. :)

manthou — June 28, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — June 28, 2011 at 6:52 a.m

Well mango, I'll explain it to you as best I can.

First, it's not the business of the Supreme Court to watch YOUR kids. If you don't want them playing with violent video games, you have to tell them NO! While it's true you can't watch them 24/7, if YOU raise them right, chances are they will obey you. If you tell the stores they can't sell to kids under 18, the games will just turn into last decade's Playboy magazine. Even though kids can't buy them, they seem to have at least one under their mattress.

As far as Farcebook goes, they can only glean the information you put out there so if you don't want anybody knowing anything about you..... DON'T TELL THEM.

hawkeye — June 28, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning to you as well, Seamuscallen. The reasoning behind my "Why???" goes beyond the control of the government in decisions which parents should have the ultimate control. My question is why has society allowed parents the need for a "crutch" by the government to say what should or should not be sold to children. This opens the door for pornographic material or controlled substances such as cigarettes or alcohol. Before you know it...a 12-year old will be coming home with a six pack and the latest issue of "......." (fill in the blank).

As long as our society remains as dysfunctional as it is at present day, the laws still need to be in place.

I refer to this as the dumbing down of society. Strong moral values are going down the tubes, my friend.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- "Before you know it...a 12 year old will be coming home with a six pack and the latest issue of......." (fill in the blank)..(Penthouse, Cavalier with a chaser of Black Velvet and a pack of Marlboro worked for me back in the day)...and look how well adjusted I am!

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mornin' Manthou. I believe there's quite a difference between our "gut instincts" and emotion-based decisions. If your gut instinct tells you the politician is crooked based on the information you have received....as I would do....trust your gut instinct. If you are electing a politician just because he tells you what you want to hear and not what you know he'd actually perform while in office and ignore your gut instincts altogether because you were peeved at the previous politician, then that is your emotions making the decision. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

I've been listening to the poor decisions and double talk of the elected ones on city council in recent years and you know what peeves me the most? I live just outside the voting boundaries of the city and couldn't get my vote to count when it came to hiring these clowns. You see, by living outside city limits...it has it's good points but it also has it's detrimental effect on decisions which affect the entire county even though the City Council could care less what the rest of the county has to say (my opinion). How do I know that??? Well my friend, I send emails with concerns and questions for our elected city officials and they know I do not live within the city limits. Rarely do I ever receive an answer unless it's just before election time. Go figure!

Should the City of Vancouver continue to annex zones bordering current city boundaries, I believe the City Council wouldn't like the decisions of the voters whose neighborhoods were forced within the city boundaries...one good example is where there are some neighborhoods being forced onto City Sewer when their septic inspections passed with flying colors. We all know the reasoning behind it but the city tries to convince everyone else that it's better for the environment...
I'd be gambling on the fact that the majority of the people in the neighborhoods experiencing that right now with a $14,000 bill to pay won't be voting in favor of the current city leaders in future elections.

frustrations, my dear...frustrations.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit!!!!!!!!!!

.....

Um...no comment.

;>P

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, well spoken at 9:04 am, well spoken.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Danggit!!! A shooting close to my neighborhood and the two suspects are still at large. I hope the CCSO checks the C-Tran Bus 7 drivers to see if they got any passengers in that area. I heard all the sirens and it sounds like within minutes after the ambulance arrived, they transported with sirens...code 3 possibly.

Talk about an unnerving situation! Hopefully the victim is doing okay.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Its not just about me and my kids. What about kids whose parents don't have a clue and couldn't care less anyway? Should we just say its the parents fault and let the chips fall where they may, often in prison, with a long string of victims along the way? No--we have to take a stand and break the cycle of violence, not just for our kids. All kids.

mangoboy — June 28, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


From today's comments:

"A msg sent to me by the Columbian when I commented on the first post about this shooting:Hi, Nora. My name is Matt Wastradowski, and I'm the social media coordinator with the Columbian newspaper.

As part of our move to Faceboook comments, we're asking users to comment with their real names and photos.

We are asking users that don't appear to have one or the other to confirm their identities with us. It's the same process we have for folks who write letters to the Editor, and we're just doing it to weed out fake profiles. We won't do anything with the information or give it to anyone else.
...
To that end, we're asking you to call me (360-735-4559) or give us your phone number so you can confirm your identity because you don't have a photo associated with your account.

If we don't hear from you in 24 hours we'll take you off the site. We're enforcing our real names policy. Thanks much.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.

Thanks,

Matt Wastradowski
Social Media Coordinator.
The Columbian"

So, people who send in letters to the editor and sign their real name have to provide a photo of themselves as well? P.S. I know PLENTY of people who have sent in a letter to the editor that has been printed in the Columbian with a false name, middle name, partial name, etc. etc. Please just tell us the real reason for this would you?

PadmaRani — June 28, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Goldie. They transported the victim to a local hospital. No word on the victim, though we do now know the victim was a 33-year-old man. Bob Albrecht is pursuing the story, and we will update it as we get more information.

Mark Bowder (Columbian Staff) — June 28, 2011 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've got my eyes peeled on the updates, Mark. Much appreciated!

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmmm....

Manthou, I'm wondering the same thing. Maybe Matt or Libby could come on board and explain a bit further as to why the C has to confirm the identity yet it's FB which controls who can and cannot post.

Could it be that the Social Networking System (encouraged by Uncle Sam most likely) must have proof of identity in order to store in the main database for future reference to prevent a mix up and legal actions by customers when they display just about everything about you in your life???

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


PadmaRani We aren't asking Facebook commenters to post a real photo, only to help us confirm that they are real. If the commenter doesn't have a photo and doesn't display their friends it's hard for us to know otherwise. One or both of those states prompts us to send a polite message asking for a phone number or a phone call.

Libby Clark — June 28, 2011 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh Good Grief! I'm so sorry, PadmaRani for the mixup on yours and Manthou's name. It's been a strange day in our neighborhood. Time for a good break away from the computer.

Libby, why is it the Columbian expects the information? Is this something required of anybody who goes onto Facebook now? I don't do Facebook so I'm really not familiar with the rules set forth. Heck, if that's all you needed to confirm us before FB, I would have gladly shared it a long time ago.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They want to keep the "Top Floor" very sterile!

scotty — June 28, 2011 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Padma, the real reason for Facebook is because a large portion of the worlds population has gone completely insane. You see if you have a Facebook account...well its a little like being famous. I personally think the Columbian, and especially "The Lou", are borderline genius with the Facebook approach. I recently visited Lou's Fan Page, and I was astonished to find he has 38 fans. If only I could have 38 fans, I mean that is the true measure of ones worth. Instead, as you know I stager (yes, I mean "stager" not "stagger") through life with work, a wonderful marriage, beautiful children, basketball practices, fixing dinners with my family and laughing about the Columbian (in a hero worship and envy kind of way Matt, Libby, the Lou, et al)...but sometimes I too am curious of the Facebook. Am I missing out? BUT 38 FANS! Perhaps, I too will lose myself in endless friend requests of people I have not spoke to in 20 years, or friends and family that I simply pick-up the phone and talk to rather than documenting conversations to be saved on a Facebook server. AM I MIIIIIIIIISSING OUUUUUUUUT????

seamuscallan — June 28, 2011 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What do you guys think of Jay Inslee? Sure sounds like a good alternative to the odd looking Bagger for the republican party. Libby as always...you look great today! That never ending smile never gets old! How about a few of you staffers take some of us anonymous commenters out to lunch? We could put paper sacks over our heads and cut out the eyes and mouth in order to communicate and not have our identities compromised. On the other hand we could be mistaken for a type of bagger. Sigh....everythings so complicated as one grows older.....I remember when.........

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Libby Tucker (Columbian Staff) — June 28, 2011 at 2:02 p.m.

OK, if I post with an alias on Farcebook and a photo or Crater Lake, you are going to want to know if I am "Real" as opposed to "fake"? If I am actually writing responses to an article, I think I'm very real. And how is a phone call going to prove anything?

Seriously, this is getting impossible. BTW, how many "friends" does it take to make me "real"?

hawkeye — June 28, 2011 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A paper sack over our heads??? Nailingit. Haven't you ever seen what happens to paper sacks in the rain??? Maybe Mardi Gras masks would be a better idea. Then we won't be mistaken for who we really are. Heck, anybody would know we are the vocal ones on the C...right??? Well, maybe not. They might mistake us for some of them thar "Keep Portland Weird" crowd....

I sigh as well....

Hawkeye, you can be my friend. Does that count???

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Imagine the time and energy being wasted on this failed experiment! It seems that what we've learned here is that if you want to create a fake Facebook profile for posting to the Columbian, be sure to use a name that sounds real, and for your profile photo, use Google image search to find a normal-looking photograph of someone who isn't famous. This will prevent the Columbian from attempting to babysit you by calling in to check on you. Proper prior planning can prevent the need for phony phone performances.

JiveSoulBro — June 28, 2011 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting post to John Laird's column today -

Matt Wastradowski -
"Bob, please refrain from calling him Hussein Obama. I know that is 2/3 of his legal name, but there are some racial implications there that we're just not comfortable with. Nor are other commenters on the site.

"We will revoke your ability to comment on our site if violations continue. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them."

No one named Bob has a post to that article. Also, Bobbo, who has been the most prolific facebook poster, has disappeared the past few days. And this is his favorite name for Pres Obama. So, barring info to the contrary....

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not in agreement with the teabagger idiots who elect to disguise their hatred of anything Muslim with this ongoing attack on the Pres. However, this form of censorship being practiced by the Columbian goes against every precept of free speech that our country was founded on. Maybe the Columbian staff should go back to school and look at one of their more illustrious predecessors - Samuel Adams and the Boston Gazette. He makes all of us look tame!!

And maybe the Columbian staff can also explain their tolerance of anyone who insults Lew Waters on the facebook side. I take it that it's OK to insult the neoCon crowd?

roger — June 28, 2011 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


CAT:

i've said basically the same thing on lou's editorial comments page. i was referred to as a 'black helicopter' type.

wonder how much an m1071A goes for nowadays....

DeeLittle — June 28, 2011 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, ol' Bobbo's still around. He posted in the article about the shooting in Orchards.

DeeLittle, I guess I'm a bit naive here...mind if I ask you just what an m1071A is? When I googled it, it came up with several different topics.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 28, 2011 at 4:13 p.m.

I find it odd that, Dubya Bush was acceptable but Hussein Obama is not.

frobert — June 28, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- Great point about the rain. I would hate to be misidentified as a bagger, and for my bag to be dripping wet on top of that...oH MYYYYY!!! Mardi Gras masks sound great.....any of the C's lady staff need some bead necklaces?

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Columbian isn't in the business, nor does it want to be, of verifying real Facebook accounts. We leave that to Facebook, which does have a policy that authentic ID's must be used to create an account. If you're found to be in violation, others can report you and your account can be disabled. We do want to ensure that we're getting as close as we can to a real names policy. Fake names and photos aren't the only tip-off here. In the end, the quality of your participation is just as important.

Libby Clark — June 28, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It is disturbing that when our President's real name is used censure threats are applied. What the hell is going on here? So what if racial implications are made, perhaps we need to have the conversation.

larimer is always bitching wrongfully about unfair liberal media bias. Now the Columbian feeds into it and gives him a real reason...doesn't make sense, and it sure won't make them any dollars. How absurd.

fro you find vanilla pudding odd. What's your point? Besides Bush is and was a complete idiot.

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt could you address this? Will I be threatened for using Newt Leroy Gingrich as Newt Leroy Gingrich's middle name could invoke a reversed discriminatory rift in the PC JETstream.

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Once again, will someone please explain why Portland's light rail is such a good thing for Vancouver? The numbers just don't add up.

We supposedly have somewhere between 60K and 80K people going across the river every day to get to their jobs. There are unknown thousands more going there to schools, hospitals, the airport, and who knows where else. MAX is supposedly going to alleviate this load on the highways.

The MAX Yellow line has 4 runs per hour from the Expo Center station starting at 6:03 A.M. Due to the need to accommodate the other lines, this frequency can't be increased. Each run can only have 2 cars; anything longer will block downtown Portland intersections. Each new car can carry a maximum of 172; the older ones carry 166. So, light rail can move a maximum of about 4K people from Vancouver each morning during the 3 hour 6 - 9 A.M. rush hour.

Returning home after work will present a different problem. The Yellow line starts at PSU in the Free Rail zone. The Free Rail zone encompasses the entire downtown; Irwin to the north, the Lloyd Center on the lines east of the Willamette, and the area encircled by I405 to the west and south. Not coincidentally, the Free Rail zone is the ONLY area where MAX cars are anywhere near filled. So, just how many seats will be available for the expected influx of Vancouver commuters?

roger — June 28, 2011 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, most likely it will be the same seats occupied by the current riders of the Max from Delta Park. BTW, it's not supposed to make sense. We're just supposed to give in to the ideals set forth by the FTA and their grip on our interstate highway system which they claim are "improvements." Too bad they have forgotten certain details regarding OUR crossing which puts their entire operation into jeopardy if they decide to construct the bridge with the current design they are leaning to.

..

Libby, thank you for the explanation I requested regarding Facebook. It was quite helpful. Still, FB isn't for me in my case. TMI, you know.

goldenoldie — June 28, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Someone please explain to me how using the presidents middle and last name, Hussein Obama.. it is his legal documented name, considered "racial implications" by it?

ELISI — June 28, 2011 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


More [evidence][1] of the detriments caused by using Facebook.

[1]: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-mom-on-facebook-when-toddler-struck-killed-by-car,0,5154617.story

seamuscallan — June 28, 2011 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 4:45 p.m.

If he was as stupid as the left contends, he wouldn't have been able to realize his misguided agenda. I am no fan of G.W. Bush but he was no idiot.

frobert — June 28, 2011 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


~I'll be long gone when some smart person figures out what happened in this oval office~ Bush May 12 2008 Washington D.C.

fro...you've got to be kidding. A puppet does not have to be as smart as those who control it.

Are you okay? ..... been getting nutrition from food products and liquid and such? You sound more disjointed than usual. Please don't take my inquiry in a way it's...not meant. I assume you have neighbors and family to assist. If not call 1-800-get the self-professed conservative cobwebs out of my brain. fro...given a choice between.........

Michele Bachman or Barack Obama for POTUS..if you had to vote..which one?

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Michele Bachman or Barack Obama for POTUS..if you had to vote..which one?

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 6:56 p.m

Third party?

frobert — June 28, 2011 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"In the end, the quality of your participation is just as important."

Don't make me laugh. Who's kidding who here? Perhaps eventually the Columbian will acknowledge the total flop of this facebook format, but if you guys, The Columbian, feel your new format is superior, good for you. It's your game, so go with it. After all, the two papers that have adopted this format (the only two I remember mentioned were the San Jose Mercury and another one I don't recall) out of several hundred (?) must be right. Good luck with that. As your business is circling the drain, I understand you must do what you need to do. Good luck with that, I hope it works for you. I'd hate to see the only local paper fold it's tent.

mrd — June 28, 2011 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert-Let's go third party here and add a forth. But let's get this right. To include a VP.

Ron Paul/Rick Scott......your third party..complimented with a fast brewed tea served with a croissant.

Mitt Romney/Rick Perry.....your Republican Party ticket...right wing business sense with a Jesus Juice chaser.

Barack Obama /Joe Biden....after 2 and a half years we kind of know what to expect.

Bernie Sanders/Chuck Schumer.....left wing idealism with a side of progressive pudding.

Unfortunately our choices will be half of these and less. Part of what's wrong with our current system IMHO. Given these choices...who and why?

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...and for that matter leading up to election time...these forums are a good way to fact check and promote or take apart those candidates we agree and disagree with. The best thing about these forums are raw unabashed opinions.

Uncensored opinion. It's American as apple pie and a roll in the hay.

Matt...did you mess up with your comment about censuring the use of our Presidents middle name? If not...you really should explain yourself. Was it completely your idea to respond in such a way? BTW we appreciate your participation on these threads.

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle @ 4:15...about $15,000 in 2005...current estimates vary but hover around same for military unit cost.

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 11:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


^^^...for the .50 cal

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 10:34 p.m

Paul/Johnson, now that is a true conservative ticket.

frobert — June 28, 2011 at 11:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dwayne Johnson...the Rock?...Bold choice dude!

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Rock could kick some serious ass in Afghanistan while Paul defunds his efforts. Brilliant!

nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 11:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 28, 2011 at 11:35 p.m.

www.garyjohnson2012.com/

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 12:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal



DeeLittle - thanks. I figured it was something in the manner of a weapon but I didn't want to sound like an idiot. I'm not educated on sniper rifles and such. I know a bit about hunting rifles and shotties but nothing else.

goldenoldie — June 29, 2011 at 5:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-
xenophopia-A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

mangoboy — June 29, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dear Columbian staff, would you please ask Lou to write another article about how awesome the Facebook transition is working out. Please ask Lou to cover the following talking points: 1. The FB transition is working out great, 2. Most everyone loves it, 3. Lou has received numerous e-mails about how the comments are finally readable (please include such descriptive terms as; "Breath of fresh air", "finally some civility"...you know the good stuff), 4. Regarding how people are stopping him ("chat him up") at grocery stores, coffee shops, shoe shine stands, throwing themselves in front of his car to tell him how their lives have changed due to the Facebook transition. Although the rest of the staff sings the praise of the FB, I would just love to see a good old fashion "ITS GOING GREAT" article. Thank you, Your Biggest Fan Seamus.

seamuscallan — June 29, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamuscallan — June 29, 2011 at 8:03 a.m

You always know just the right thing to say, thanks for the laugh!

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamuscallan, I love you. If you were a "real person" I would be your fan, friend and follower.

PadmaRani — June 29, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I would like to know what comments are on of Facebook, but I can't read the dang things. They must just be for people with good eyesight.

rincon1 — June 29, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey all, I saw where there was some discussion about this and wanted to address it here, as well.

I talked about this with a few other folks here. And I'm sorry. I was a little too sensitive regarding the issue and overreacted. I won't be banning Bob for this.

Matt Wastradowski — June 29, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, Allen, Hawkeye, Nailingit, Alleycat, and anyone else..

Read this and let me know what you think, is it right on, off a tad or way off.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jhammerton/the-real-threat-to-american-manufacturing?src=fb

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt,

A little too sensitive? LOL

As I said yesterday Matt, Hussein Obama is his legal documented name. Just minus his first name..

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding the Supreme Court striking down the violent game ban. This reminds me of George Carlin years ago when he did the skit about the 7 Deadly Words you can't say in television. They all had to do with sex and bodily functions. Murder and killing were all OK. Then he went on to substitute the word KILL for "another four letter word". Killing and murder are all OK in our society but anything about sex is taboo. Go figure? I was more concerned about the other Supreme Court that came down the same day. That Money equates Free Speech and reinforced the idea that corporations are humans and deserve human rights.

Regarding Bob and his use of Hussein Obama. Let him go. He's proving that by using the name on the Birth Certificate, that the certificate must legit. Why use a fake document to prove one's point? Reading Bob's comments lately, after the death on Usama and the attack on Libya, it looks like Obama is not PROGRESSIVE enough for him.

Roger you are right...Like others here have stated Light Rail, especially MAX, has it's limits.

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Chis Wallace question to Michelle Bachmann, I don't think was a total mistake. Chris gets his talking points from the "higher ups" at FAUX News and I think that he worded the question just the way they wanted him to. FAUX plays to the fringe groups but they really don't like them. I just remember in the last republican primaries that Sean Hannity would not even say Ron Paul's name on the air when giving the election results, especially if Paul was ahead of McCain.

This is Chris Wallace's second foray into controversy in as many weeks. The first was the edited interview with Jon Stewart.
Here is the unedited interview:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/19/jon-stewart-fox-news-sunday-video_n_879964.html

Jon Steward from the Daily Show "called out" FAUX News on the editing of the interview and now this has turned into an all out war.

It has been going back and forth and this is the latest from The Daily Show....Before you decide to click to the clip, be warned that the language may be offensive to some even with the BEEPS and "%&^" in the headings.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-28-2011/oh--for-fox-sake---who-s-the-biggest-a--hole-

FOX NEWS is in a battle with COMEDY CENTRAL? They are worried about Comedy Central?

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91 -

After watching Jon Stewart's performance last night, I'd say FOX News has lost. What's interesting is that Bill O'Reilly doesn't appear to be part of the battle. He and Jon have already expressed a mutual respect for each other. This fight seems to be with Wallace, Beck, Hannity, and all the blonde crew.

roger — June 29, 2011 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

I guess the answer to your question depends on whether you believe in the trickle down theories of Reaganomics. For an alternate viewpoint, check W. Edward Deming's book, Out Of The Crisis. A VERY brief synopsis is that management needs to quit putting all their focus on profit - instead, constantly work on improving the manufacturing process, quality, and worker involvement. If done properly, profits will follow. Ford bought into this back in the 80's, and after a few years passed GM as the most profitable US auto maker. And they're still there today - GM is ready to go under, while I believe Ford was one of the few big corporations that didn't need to take bailout money.

As for the government regulation, which he doesn't go into much detail on, I suspect a lot is OSHA and other laws/controls geared toward protecting the worker. The reason the big corporations moved overseas was so they could return to the sweatshops where workers have no rights.

roger — June 29, 2011 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is from Twitter today. There is discussion on CRC issue. First time I've seen anything this extensive on FB. The CRC subject usually gets response.

Webber is with Columbian.

angelar Angela M Webber

Looks like @thecolumbian's facebook requirement for comments is going well. Lots of conversations happening. goo.gl/ukn3e

buckeye71 — June 29, 2011 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 11:00...The koch bros fund freedom works and basically founded it. I didn't read all the blah blah it's government fault blah blah...more tax cuts for the wealthy...blah blah...the government is what's wrong with our country blah blah....this is more ridiculous recycled Dick Armey crap. ..sigh................

Matt Wastradowski....Kudo's to you for a couple of reasons. Your honesty and willingness to admit a mistake. Values that too often get lost in our society. And another reason...your willingness as well as obvious frustration with those that race bait for attention, and far too often that's what they believe. Bob really believes the hateful lies and conspiracies that he brings to the table everyday. There is a sect in our country that want us to revert back to the days of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, the civil war and where they could find good labor on the cheap. Wasn't it our founding father that owned over 300 slaves?

There's a lot of...hidden and nuanced messages within the tea party movement. Think back in 2008 when pics of our President in full African garb were on display, complete with bones through his nose and exaggerated African-American features.

A big THANK YOU FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO THE HATERS AND RACE BAITERS LIKE LARIMER. IT IS NEEDED. Although you overstepped your bounds with threats of censorship, your motivations were right on.

Does Larimer race bait by using Hussein? Oh yeah. I used to thank bobbo the clown once in awhile for existing. He helps define the line between reason, and those that are unreasonable. He also helps to distinguish the insane from those that define sanity through their actions.

It's a continuing conversation our country will always have. And it's people like BOB that provide the segway. Thanks again for paying attention and conversing on these threads. Please do so more often!

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger

Also, corporations can use child labor in sweatshops overseas. Republicans are trying to limit child labor laws in US.

BTW, Freedom Works was originally founded by David Koch and now chaired by Dick Armey. This is one of the astroturf [projecting the false impression of grassroots organizing] organizations that led to creation of the Tea Party during summer of 2009.

buckeye71 — June 29, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91...IMO you are on the money. I watched the interview as it took place and the first thing I thought was that Ailes, Rove, the big donors have gotten the word out to throw her under the bus, just like they have Palin in the last few weeks and beyond. Fox is no more a news station than comedy central...just better financed with a different targeted agenda. It doesn't surprise me they are taking on the competition! ;)).

It is fun to watch the republicans eat their own. Their appetite is insatiable.

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


CRC getting Facebook comments? LOL Not even close to the level and quality of discussion that was had before the Facebook requirement.

Step 1: Require Facebook with real names & pictures to post.

Done.

Step 2: Admonish, shame, and/or intimidate those who dare to speak up against the CRC, light rail, and other pet projects. Identify and target those who are working to ruin your plans.

Watch carefully and you'll see if happening. It's subtle in the comments and more direct in private, where the public isn't watching. Local politicians and big money players are very grateful that the Columbian has made it easier to target their enemies. And make no mistake, when you interfere with their financial plans, you become their enemy.

Step 3: Enjoy the lack of resistance, spread propaganda freely, promote your causes, and profit.

Over the next decade a group of people are going to benefit, as long as they can silence their opposition and trick enough people into trusting and following them.

Are you ready to vote every last one of them out of office? Do we have the resolve to show them that we won't forgive and forget what they've done, and won't let them get away with it? As individuals, long memories are good, but not enough. We need a long collective memory, as a community. They want to divide and dilute any uprising, and dismiss people as singular quacks. That is the point of obtaining real names! Target a few "quacks" to make an example, and intimidate the rest with similar views into silence.

If they succeed in turning downtown Vancouver into a giant parking garage / light rail deadend / gridlocked ghetto under a massive freeway overpass, they should be removed from office at the first opportunity and made infamous. Even better is to remove them before they get away with it.

JiveSoulBro — June 29, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, you are right on the "money" in reference to Deming. Too bad for the huge companies in the U.S. that they didn't listen to this great man in the days after WWII. He had ALL the answers but the corporate big shots didn't even know the questions. Funny thing is, Japanese automakers listened.

ELISI, I don't buy it. The complaints about the government are too generalized and non-specific. Also, the argument about Caterpillar not hiring because they don't know how much "Obamacare" is going to cost them is a flat out lie. Caterpillar workers are union and have a pretty good healthcare package. My guess is that with the new healthcare directives, they just might save some money.

nailingit, I have found in the past that the news on Stewart's show is actually more accurate than the same news on Faux. Also, more entertaining. I really do like Jon Stewart.

***IN today's news***

Glenn Beck got harassed at an outdoor movie in New York. He thought he was being unfairly attacked but the New Yorkers that were interviewed said they were just being New Yorkers. Guess he can't take "friendly".

hawkeye — June 29, 2011 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We as a people need to remember come election time the talk, the dress, the actions of those that embrace the "tea party" and what it stands for, as will as the politicians who endorse this line of thinking.

Instead of the ridiculous slogan of "we want to take our country back", we should have a slogan that speaks of pushing our country forward. Don't let these right wing radical social engineering nut jobs take over our country.

You want scary? Think about the multiple directions our country would be taking right now if we had a majored republican House and Senate along with a republican president.

Instead of watching Greece burn...we might be able to look out our front door.

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Hawk...I just read the article on Beck. I wonder what really happened? Beck is paranoid and delusional as it is, and with three days to go on his contract with Fox he most likely will do whatever he can for attention. Stewart is great and it doesn't get any funnier than Colbert. Man...if we could get THEIR endorsements..that would rock!

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

About Deming's book...He made some very valid points. But when you come down to it, management officers are nothing more than employees themselves. Protected and insulated by a Board of Directors, who themselves do not want anything to do with running and overseeing a company. We have gotten to the point where they corporate officers are placed on a pedestal and the only way to meter their worth is by the increase in EPS. Never mind that they may be destroying the future of the company and that maybe 3 or 4 years (if that long) after their tenure the company is a complete mess and nothing more than a take over candidate. I think this is was the problem with Lehman Bros. They were actively looking all over the world for someone as a takeover partner 2 years before the financial mess. I guess others were able to decipher the books and say "No Thanks".

This was a fatal flaw in Ayn Rand's philosophy. Just because you are narcissistic and think you are always right doesn't mean that you will be.

Basically, I saying that when they talk about planning for the "long term" they mean no further than their contract and when they plan to dump their stock.

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt,

OK, on your reconsideration. The only time Bob really bothers me is when he decides to re-write history. But all you need to do is continue reading and smile.

BTW...I need to dig the spurs in....HOW'S THAT WHOLE FB THING WORKING OUT FOR THE "C"?

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I see old Bobbo is on a roll. I know it's protected free speech but man, that's racist stuff. "Obama is after all, nothing more than an old-school African Colonial" Geeze Bobbo, you make my butt pucker. Such hate and discontent.

hawkeye — June 29, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat looks like a good book, brings up some interesting contradictions between natural law and corrupted religious beliefs.

mangoboy — June 29, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye,

Yeah your right!! Bob's on a role!!

And the link he gave to the article on the American Thinker. He should have stopped reading at "...**Of course, none of this qualifies me to say what I am about to**..." The African born author goes on and explains that we in the US know nothing of African history then continues by lumping East, West and Central Africans (the whole continent) into a Marxist Philosophy.

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Hawkeye, Alleycat and the few others that took the time to read what was on that link and comment.

Those that didn't read it or only parts of...well why not read all of it? What are you afraid of? Afraid that there might be some truth there and don't want to face that you might be wrong?
How can anyone with an IQ above a sloth learn, and understand how others think and feel about politics etc if you don't read, listen too, or talk to those that have opposite views? Are you so completely blinded by what only you will read, listen to, and talk about that you can't take a few moments out to read something that is opposite?
No wonder this country is as screwed up as it is....

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as Beck is concerned, from what I have read is...

Beck and his family was scream at and told to leave, told they were hated and need to leave NY.. people behind them in the park poured wine on his wife's back.

Pretty messed up if you ask me. I don't care who you are, where you are at, you have every right as anyone else to do what he and his family went to do without being harassed. Think about it next time you are on a outing with your family, would you like it if people stood, pointed fingers and screamed at you that they hated you, told to leave town and poured wine on your wife's back....for once set aside politics, and wither you like the guy or not..he and his family had every right given to all of us to be in the park and watch that movie as anyone else without harassment.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, thanks for the kudos. :) I'm wrong often enough to admit when it happens. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

pdxtech91, thanks for the question. I honestly believe the Facebook test is going well after a month. I know the commenters will laugh at that, but that's okay. :) I really think it's going well. Here's why.

We knew, expected and braced for a drop-off in the number of comments. We knew that was coming long before we made the switch with the hopes that the overall number of comments would rebound in the long-term. We're taking a long-term approach with this and aren't discouraged.

That said, has it been a flawless transition? No, definitely not. There's a lot more to be done. We're still trying to figure out what we can do and what the commenters can do to make this a place for positive, productive discussion. We think Facebook is a good step, but it's not the only step -- or the final one.

In the mean time, I'm still popping into these forums on occasion. I feel bad - I broke one finger and fractured three more just a few days before the move to FB comments. So I've been M.I.A. quite a bit since then. But they're healing up, so I won't be such a stranger.

Matt Wastradowski — June 29, 2011 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, we're working on verifying the commenters as best we can. It's a work-in-progress.

Like I said, the Facebook transition hasn't been completely smooth. That is one of the challenges.

Matt Wastradowski — June 29, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt,

The facebook experiment is a complete failure if approached from the perspective of meaningful conversation. I can count discussions there that approach these forums for quality on one hand. And with the exchanges taking place in today's article on Pres Obama's speech last night, I'd say you'll have to admit the insults and meanness are not curbed in the least by the requirement for real names.

As nailingit noted here earlier, it was decent of you to come back and say you overreacted to Bobbo's use of Hussein Obama. However, his response is definitely overboard. It sure looks to me like he's saying you can take your ability to curtail his comments and stick it you know where. Well????

Or is he going to be protected because he, and others' reactions to his nonsense, are responsible for more than half the facebook posts?

Roger Neilson
Retired Army 1SG

roger — June 29, 2011 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nobody is against people having different opinions and stating them. The people are tired of self-appointed and paid agitators that do revisionist history to open old wounds and nurture a civil war again in this country.
alleycat — June 29, 2011 at 5:05 p.m*

Alleycat, there are some on the left that do exactly the same thing...Olbermann to name one. His rants turns my stomach.

If no one is against others with an opposite opinion, then why did the people do what they did to Beck and his family? Does he not have the right to HIS opinion?
You don't like Beck...fine, but don't trash/attack his family for what you disagree about him.
I actually feel sorry for those that trash talked and poured the wine on his wife. Shows just how immature they are...more intelligent, elite? oh don't make me laugh so hard.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat,

I've been turning over in my mind on how to react to your recent observation that our generation has accomplished nothing. Maybe I'm misreading other things you've said, but I have the impression we share the same tail end of the baby boom that came of age in the late Sixties/early Seventies. If so, then what's your take on our convincing mainstream America that Vietnam was a "bad" war that needed to be stopped? Looking back, my take is that this was probably the last time when Wash D.C. got the message they better listen to the people who elect them and not corporate America. Unfortunately, I guess, when that war was over things went back to the usual. The deal was, we were mostly middle class America and shared the same goals as our parents - get jobs, buy a home, and raise families. Corporate America came back with a vengeance, and we failed to recognize that the "me first" of the Gen X'ers was symptomatic of their taking control back.

I've also got a "theory" that these generations only come along every so often. And I think the next one is coming of age now. But I also think they're different; they won't pack it in and go home like we did. Bob Dylan was a little early with his "Times They Are A'Changin'."

roger — June 29, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Or is he going to be protected because he, and others' reactions to his nonsense, are responsible for more than half the facebook posts?
Roger Neilson Retired Army 1SG
roger — June 29, 2011 at 5:50 p.m*

Ohh Roger me thinks you hit the nail on the head.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL Allen I saw that one also.

Wondering who said it also...I know I sure didn't.

So we are "nutcakes" now are we? Too funny...
I guess being a "nutcake" is better than being a flake.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, be careful of what you wish for. That gentleman whose family had wine thrown on their back and people shouting at the tops of their lungs at him is from Washington State. As far as I'm concerned, I'd welcome Glenn Beck back to our state, maybe even shake his hand thanking him because we as Washingtonians don't have a problem voicing our opinions and he has represented that very fact. Just because he got paid to do what he did doesn't make him evil or wrong. Are you going to tell everyone that if you got paid to share your comments, you wouldn't?? As long as we have the freedom to speak our minds and can back the statements with documented fact, the words will be said whether you agree or disagree. What happened to Mister Glenn Beck and his family was an abomination against the people of NYC the other night. That was a community affair where EVERYONE was invited whether people believed him or adamantly disagreed with him. In case you haven't forgotten, our rights to say what's on our mind are still free.

You said "you sow what you reap." Well sir, thanks to Mister Glenn Beck, I listened to his advice starting two years ago and with my other half only working a maximum of 16 hours a week since last fall, my inability to work outside the home and NOT on SSI or Medicaid and through spring this past year, we have been able to survive one of the worst economic times we've ever witnessed AND have been able to help family and friends in the same boat. Instead of groveling and groaning about how nasty the economy was, we learned to make do with what we had and to this day have been able to hold on AND help others in the capacity that we could, Alleycat.

You know, I might not always agree with the man, but his heart is in the right place if only you could open your mind and listen to the message he is putting forth. It's amazing how distorted his message has become thanks to mainstream media. Too bad so many have closed their minds because of what they think they know he's saying.

goldenoldie — June 29, 2011 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Better a nutcake than a nutcase!

goldenoldie — June 29, 2011 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I checked out the link you provided and in my opinion, it showed a good representation of the overall issue of manufacturing in the USA with government intervention, the business decisions of companies with connections overseas and how our it can all affect a segment of the entire process in manufacturing which can stall economic times. Also, it was written in a manner which even I could understand...and in the world of politics and big business...I'm not too edjumacated on the subject. Anyhow, if I read it right...it still shows that the quality of manufactured products are at a higher value here in the US than they are in China which would indicate better development standards rather than mass production.

In my thought, does it really matter if China is producing higher masses of goods which don't stand up to the quality of what we can produce here? After a while, people will begin to pay the extra to have the products they pay for last longer than most goods coming from China...but that's my opinion and I may be incorrect.

goldenoldie — June 29, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

I read the link...I don't quite know what to make of it. China is moving up and the US it kinda going flat. As much as we like to complain about China the "Developed Nations" are the ones that went to China. 1) to open up trade 2) to sell them out goods and services. 3) Get rid of that ugly communism. (ERGO another trade partner). As much as we like to complain about China (India and the other Asian countries) we were the ones that asked them to open their boarders and go to trade with us.

The complaint about 400+ pages of regulations? part of that includes: Child Labor, Living Wage, Working Conditions, Handling Hazardous Material, Fair Trade practices. Like what was said earlier today from Obama, (paraphrase) Even when we are at the "top of our game" business was/will be complaining about too many regulations.
Going back to when we talked about Deming's book. At what point does short term gain mean long term destruction.

FYI when did/would companies like CAT or GM not complain about too many regulations?

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — June 29, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.

The only double standard is people that think it was fine to say "Dubya Bush" and then insist that Hussein Obama is an attack. They are the same, disrespectful yes, an attack no.

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden and pdxtech91, thank you for answering.

As I see it Gold, is pretty much the way you see it.

Pdxtech, I ask, when do we draw the line to when is too much, too much? We can not and must not keep regulating ourselves out of business as a country. The more regulations that is leveled on companies the more will close or go to oversea. Do we really want this? We have already done a disservice to our young by teaching them to be more educated and never work in a job like welding, machinist, plumber, electrician, factory, machanic etc...I asked this weeks ago...what is going to happen when those that work those kind of jobs are no longer able too or there is no one left to do those jobs? Who will you turn too then? Don't get me wrong, I am all for higher education, but not all are able or can afford higher education.
If we don't train those who can't, to do those jobs who is going to do them and if we don't have those manufacturing/industrial jobs here? Tell me, where is our economy going to go then?
This country was built by the manufacturing/industrial business. Without it...this country will go down in flames.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I heard from the REAL news that the person that "poured" wine on Beck actually spilled it accidentally and apologized in great extent for the accident.

***The problem lies when Beck brings up the incident on his show and conveniently leaves that part out. ***

If he can't tell the whole truth about an accidental incident, how can anyone believe him about anything?

hawkeye — June 29, 2011 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

My short answer to you is: I don't know!!

But I'm not ready yet to say it is just because of regulations. It comes down to, in the short term, lower cost. But then we go back to the depression in the 30s and "trickle down economics" what happens when your customers can no longer afford what you are producing?

Again in the short term one raises the company's EPS and gets his bonus and keeps his job, but in the long run one bankrupts the company, but really doesn't care because he'll be gone by then. I can go on a whole rant about this, but not now.

Higher education is not any cushion from having one's job farmed out. Xerox and Techtronics have stated this year that they are going overseas for engineers and letting employee go because it's cheaper to do so. Tell me what regs they were upset about?

I don't know if any one remembers the British Series that was on PBS years ago called the "Hitchhiker' Guide to the Galaxy" (not the movie). But when that series was produced Britain was loosing all of it's manufacturing industry at the time. In a humorous way they talked about where all the Service Industry Workers came from, hair stylists, manicurists, waiters ETC. And that is what we are becoming. A service industry economy, Realtors, Lawyers, Dentists, Store Clerks, Nurses. We are loosing the industries that build anything. Just yesterday it was on the news that the autos with the most American content were a Toyota and a Honda.

This gets me wound up but I don't have an easy answer to fit it.

pdxtech91 — June 29, 2011 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's another peek into his character:

GB was a Top 40/Morning Zoo DJ

The slight outraged Beck, who got his revenge with what may rank as one of the cruelest bits in the history of morning radio. "A couple days after Kelly's wife, Terry, had a miscarriage, Beck called her live on the air and says, 'We hear you had a miscarriage,' " remembers Brad Miller, a former Y95 DJ and Clear Channel programmer. "When Terry said, 'Yes,' Beck proceeded to joke about how Bruce [Kelly] apparently can't do anything right -- about he can't even have a baby."

"It was low class," says Miller, now president of Open Stream Broadcasting. "There are certain places you just don't go."

"Beck turned Y95 into a guerrilla station," says Kelly. "It was an example of the zoo thing getting out of control. It became just about pissing people off, part of the culture shift that gave us 'Jackass.'" Among those who were appalled by Beck's prank call was Beck's own wife, Claire, who had been friends with Kelly's wife since the two worked together at WPGC.

------------------------------------------------

Beck's real broadcasting innovation during his stay in Kentucky came in the realm of vicious personal assaults on fellow radio hosts. A frequent target of Beck's in Louisville was Liz Curtis, obese host of an afternoon advice show on WHAS, a local AM news-talk station. It was no secret in Louisville that Curtis, whom Beck had never met and with whom he did not compete for ratings, was overweight. And Beck never let anyone forget it. For two years, he used "the big blonde" as fodder for drive-time fat jokes, often employing Godzilla sound effects to simulate Curtis walking across the city or crushing a rocking chair. Days before Curtis' marriage, Beck penned a skit featuring a stolen menu card for the wedding reception. "The caterer says that instead of throwing rice after the ceremony, they are going to throw hot, buttered popcorn," explains Beck's fictional spy.

Despite the constant goading, Curtis never responded. But being ignored only seemed to fuel Beck's hunger for a response. As his attacks escalated and grew more unhinged, a WHAS colleague of Curtis' named Terry Meiners decided to intervene. He appeared one morning unannounced at Beck's small office, which was filled with plaques, letters and news clippings -- "a shrine to all that is Glenn Beck," remembers Meiners. He told Beck to lay off Curtis, suggesting he instead attack a morning DJ like himself, who could return fire. "Beck told me, 'Sorry, all's fair in love and war,'" remembers Meiners. "He continued with the fat jokes, which were exceedingly cruel, pointless, and aimed at one of the nicest people in radio. Glenn Beck was over-the-top childish from Day One, a punk who tried to make a name for himself by being disruptive and vengeful."

Glenn Beck Becomes Damaged Goods

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/22/glenn_beck_two

buckeye71 — June 29, 2011 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi goldenoldie. Not to show disrespect in any way, but Beck is a lying freak whose only interests lie with himself. His racist, anti-American views are one of many reasons our country is in such turmoil. How good people get caught up with this waste of life is amazing to me.

We had better not stop listening to the "mainstream media". To isolate ourselves to limited opinion is not a good thing. On the other hand ELISI commented earlier about people not reading an entire post from Dick Armey/Koch and his crew. Sometimes one doesn't have to walk in front of a Peterbilt truck to understand it would not be productive.

ELISI...a few of us have been around the block a few times. You must be passionate about Freedom Works to draw such attention to a partisan/hack article. I'm sure your opinion was pretty solid on the subject matter. And that's cool. But no need to condemn those that have an understanding of the Koch bros....dick armey freedom works....the tea party....sarah palin....isolationist veiws....blah....blahhh. That's not why our country is so screwed up! LOL. I do read dissenting opinion quite often.

Just don't find myself in the mood to read MAD Magazine as much as I used to.

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Columbian Facebookers are all up in arms and mad enough to kill with their bare hands the boys who used neighborhood pets for a live action shooting gallery. And a few even seem to be able to imagine the possibility that there could be some bad parenting involved. But our culture, our laws, our rotten to the core civilization? Never.

The Supreme Court of the United States, the administrators of justice in our country of last resort, and supposedly possessed of fine intellect, reason, and sensibility, yesterday "decided" to allow children to purchase without permission or penalty violent video games in California. What are the consequences of this?

"Postal 2" figures heavily in Monday's Supreme Court ruling.

The game, in which the player goes on a rampage as "The Postal Dude," was cited by California's lawyers as an example of why a law was needed. Since Monday, the game's creators have celebrated the ruling as a victory for free speech.

But while other game creators try to reflect or explain away criticism, the makers of the "Postal" franchise have wallowed in it. To be honest, their offering is pretty much what the harshest critics see in their heads when they imagine violent video games.

ABUSING AND KILLING CATS.Killing people who cut ahead of you in line at the bank. Urinating on the corpses of victims. All are allowed, and much more.

(And if you forget exactly how much your character has urinated throughout the game, don't worry. Its scoring system will keep track for you, in gallons, right alongside stats like "Number of People Murdered," "People Roasted" and "Heads Exploded by Shotgun").

In a move that probably seemed clever to someone, you can even kill people protesting against violent video games. Get it?

"Postal 2" was referenced repeatedly by lawyers when the California case was heard by the Supreme Court, particularly a scene in which the player can slam a woman in the face with a shovel until she's decapitated.

And where does all of this video garbage come from? Hollywood, Porno LA, Silicon Valley, etc. The people of California cry out desperately for help, but the deck is stacked-- by the unbearable weight and power of the "legal system."

mangoboy — June 29, 2011 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 6 p.m.

Actually all of Olbermann's rants are based in reality. The same can not be said of Beck.

goldenoldie — June 29, 2011 at 6:24 p.m.

I have always appreciated your comments but this one is a bit beyond belief. Please visit any of the fact checking sites, nothing that Beck says has any basis in reality.

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 7:27 p.m.

When Mr Larimer says "Hussein Obama" he is using it as a racist slur. I can hear/see/feel the hatred every time he writes it. While Dubya was not exactly polite it was not a racist slur.

dfsadfh — June 29, 2011 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


dfsadfh

Thank you for that. 9:08 pm

Keith Olbermann is light years away from Beck. I keep thinking if some forum contributors watched Olbermann for a few days, they would see that he is entertaining and provides some depth. He kept the Thurber readings on Fridays too.

-----------------------

Here's a 10 minute highlight reel to help the Beck viewers through withdrawal:

http://gawker.com/5816831/

buckeye71 — June 29, 2011 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


dfsadfh — June 29, 2011 at 9:08 p.m.

So you are uniquely qualified to feel the writers feelings, so his statements should be banned?

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 10:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 9:03 p.m

Yeah some of us have been around the block a few times...I wasn't born yesterday or last week either.

I was pointing out the fact that so many see a web site or start to read something that doesn't fit like tongue n groove to their thinking they refuse to read it all. Sad really, so much to learn from and those who refuse to read or listen, miss out. Many act like a 2 yr old having a temper tantrum. How can any one expect to understand where others stands if they refuse to be informed.
All of you have good talking points, but that is all they are talking points. Try recording yourselves then push replay over and over...everyday same thing...Beck this...Palin that...Koch bros...Hannity, or whatever his name is...same dead beat of a drum day in day out.
You have prostituted yourselves out and can't even see it.

ELISI — June 29, 2011 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yo fro..whatz up man? Bob's comments are easy to get a "feel" for based on the content of his ramblings. Why would you stick your chin out on this one? Are you a follower of...

...bobbo the clown?

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 10:52 p.m

You should be fully aware by this time that I agree with very little of what bob has to say. My point is that you cannot enforce a double standard, liberals that believe that they hold the moral high ground are no different then the conservatives that feel the same way.

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...and who have I whored myself out to? The evil George Soros? The evil liberal empire? LOL!

Not to disparage prostitution in the least. An honorable profession that carries more character than our current Congress. When people speak of today's politics it only makes sense to understand the thoughts, motivations and carnival barkers involved. Your right wing party tried to seat 'Palin' in the White House...don't tell me you are obsessing over her again! ;))

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...okay frobert...let's go here. Are you to draw the same conclusion with every other damn thing?

How about cannibals holding the moral high ground over those that eat beef? Both feel the same way. Nazi's and Jews? Cat's and dogs? Republicans and people that care?

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 11:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI

You seem to have missed the liberal mindset. Because they are "enlightened" anything outside of their narrow point of view is a lie. Because they are "accepting" anyone that thinks differently is stupid.

frobert — June 29, 2011 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Don't be double dribblin' on me now frobro...don't go all elitist on ma now.

We even accept the stupidly enlightened. Look at Congress!

Repent all ye conservlibataribecksters or GOD'S gonna git ya!!!

nailingit — June 29, 2011 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LMAO, Even your liberal friends are turning on your hero... and learning the truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNd8-YaqSGI

scotty — June 30, 2011 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


dfsadfh — June 29, 2011 at 9:08 p.m.

I thank you for sharing your comment with me but in all fairness, we wouldn't have survived living in our home if I didn't take to heart Glenn Beck's suggestions to eliminate our debt and save for that rainy day...even though it ended up a downpour all at once for us. We most likely would've been forced out of our home of 32 years. I also took in the suggestion to stock up the pantry with foodstuffs and dry goods we use, not just to stock up to say we have a full pantry. Although this is also something my parents used to tell me, it took a well-versed radio/television personality to play that over and over in my head in order for me to get the ball rolling. Glenn Beck also has pushed for many years the fact that we need to become independent of the government and join in on the effort of friends and neighbors helping each other. Dfsadfh, do you truly see a problem with what I believe Glenn Beck was spot on?

I'm not saying everything he said was accurate. In fact, some of what he said was twisted to fit his agenda which in my book puts him at the same level as some of our most corrupt elected officials...but he has opened my eyes to issues I had either shrugged off as something I could never fight against or as something I felt our vote would never count. Luckily, he isn't a politician but he is an eye opener.

Dfsadfh, here's a small compilation of issues Mister Glenn Beck has stated which cannot be denied:

*We will see gasoline approach $5.00 a gallon (2009)* btw...we've reached that plateau here this year, haven't we!!! Can't dispute that one.

*Government Spending is creating an economic holocaust (CPAC Speech 2010)* Must I remind you of what is about to happen in August/September with our national budget and what could happen to the US Dollar? Are you ready?

He stands by the words of the three great virtues of the New Testament..."Faith, Hope and Charity." Not saying you have to be religious to follow the words of the New Testament, but honestly...can you really argue with that, dfsadfh?

*Prepare yourself (ongoing)*

...and my most favorite quote by Glenn Beck of all....

"*You cannot take away freedom to protect it, you cannot destroy the free market to save it, and you cannot uphold freedom of speech by silencing those with whom you disagree. To take rights away to defend them or to spend your way out of debt defies common sense." — Glenn Beck, Common Sense, 2009*

Now I am not saying an old "Shock Jock" doesn't carry a bag of hot air, but I am saying that I listen to all sides of the spectrum and search for the good in all people. That is my nature, dfsadfh. Glenn Beck, in all his years on television has provided good points worth listening to. To close your mind just because you don't like someone...you are doing yourself an injustice, my friend.

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, you watched the Glenn Beck Show?????

What I saw when I watched it was a man saddened that someone...a group of people sitting behind his family was so careless and drunk as he used to be, would kick wine all over his wife and others would take the time out at a community movie gathering in the park, to condemn him and his family when it should have been a time where everyone comes together whether you agree or disagree and just have a good time...showing that our country is unified. His message was clearly showing that our country is divided. Why is that??? Because....

people

don't

want

to

open

their

minds

and

listen

to

what

the

other

person

is

trying

to

say!

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Like I said, the Facebook transition hasn't been completely smooth. That is one of the challenges."
Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — June 29, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

MATT WASTRADOWSKI, I read your last post, and I can't believe my eyes. How dare you say the Facebook transition is not completely smooth. I beg to differ, I think it is going swimmingly. Since I am a former basketball player, and your bio states that you are a basketball fan (Blazers), let us define the Facebook transition in our own language. Facebook is your 1984 NBA draft or your "The Decision". Yes, of course the Portland Trailblazers could have selected Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Sam Perkins, or John Stockton over Sam Bowie, but they had a need! They needed a big-man, and they stuck to their guns. Even years after, Portland management said (with a straight face) that Bowie was the right pick...if he didn't have injury problems. In the face of blinding evidence, they stuck to the party line...AND SO SHOULD YOU! The Facebook decision is awesome! And speaking about "Decisions", take pride in the fact that Lou, Libby, and you, Matt, lets just call you guys the "Columbian Big 3", have stood strong in a storm of criticism regarding your "Decision". Just like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh who waved their "Decision" as a great move in the face of all critics, even though the rest of the world calls it collusion, just stand firm with the following: "It is a long term goal", "I think Facebook has been a breath of fresh air, and brought some civility to the comments", "after a month, I think the Facebook transition is ahead of schedule". Stay strong Matt, and brace for the storm of haters. Don't you worry, when everyone is saying that it was a bad decision, that is when it is most important to only listen to the people that agree with you. God speed, my prayers are with "The Columbian Big Three".

seamuscallan — June 30, 2011 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamuscallan — June 30, 2011 at 7:26 a.m.

OK, seamus, which one of those guys is Lebron because he was a huge disappointment this year.

I agree with your analogy, however. I don't see the kids playing well together. Sure, they can be civil when they are at work but I'm sure in the back of their minds each one of them is saying "I'm the man, the most important one of this group and those guys better never forget it".

Goldenoldie, in response to your characterization of Beck, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

That the best and nicest way I can put that.

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


lol, Hawkeye. I like your analogy.

Alleycat, I'm glad we can agree to disagree and I absolutely agree with you that these paid agitators are wolves in sheep's clothing. How else do you rustle up the sheep but by having a wolf run through the herd??? He's a capitalist and he's never made that fact be known as any other way. Of course he's going to capitalize on his profession which he's obviously got quite a following...but Faux News also capitalized on his show BIG time. There's always a time and a place to end certain shows. I think GB got his point across that EVERYONE must take their fate into their own hands and prepare as well as do the homework and not rely on what he says or anyone else says as the absolute the truth as that was the truth as he saw it. I give him credit for saying that. I haven't heard anybody else say that and you must ask yourself "why is that I wonder?" I also admit that I believe he has sparked too much controversy for his own good, but it got people talking now, didn't it!

Allen, just for info...today's his last television broadcast but he'll still be on the radio and on the web. He's not folding. Also Allen, he was paid to do what he did and I'm sure Faux News told him what he had to say and stick to it..and that's why they had the difference of opinion when it came to contract renewal time. Glenn Beck is exercising his rights and whether or not we agree or disagree with him...

he has sent a powerful message.

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO- Please refer to Hawkeye's last post regarding G. Beck, but at least a broken clock has the potential or ability to be fixed.

Now I am off to my Republican - GOP Writing and Speech Class. Today we will cover how to debate a person that is using facts and truth. Last week was "The Columbian Newspaper Facebook Commenting" where we learned the following vocabulary words:

HUSSEIN
TINKERING (SOCIAL)
TINKERING (CONSTITUTIONAL)
THOMAS JEFFERSON
FOUNDING FATHERS
LIBERAL
HUMANIST-INDOCTRINATED SOCIETY
ELITIST
HUSSEIN (again)
and don't forget "HUSSEIN"

Viva Facebook!

seamuscallan — June 30, 2011 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Seamus, love your post at 7:26 am.

The Columbian Big Three???

Classic!

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Seamus, fixing a broken clock??? True...but once the hands of the clock have been removed, there's no clock...just a silent face.

..

Heads UP folks! American Idol Auditions at the Rose Quarter. Traffic in that area is supposedly a nightmare! Great time for folks to see where the REAL gridlock issues are...not at the I-5 Bridge as the CRC promoters try to portray in order to gain light rail into our county. My question is...why aren't all the people who want to try out for American Idol taking Max today and tomorrow? It's supposed to be more efficient, right????

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I just checked tripcheck.com and the Rose Quarter cameras don't look too bad. Traffic seems to be flowing normally right now...but later???

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamus: Are you the anonymous voice behind the "Daily "Couv?" Thanks for the smiles and the spot-on satire. :)

Any jazz fans out there? Just got back from Le Festival de Jazz de Montreal refreshed and ready-to-roll. What a beautiful city! World-class performances. Imaginative museum exhibits (Indiana Jones film costumes and props at the Science Center and fantastic Jean Paul Gautier costumes at the Musee de Beaux Arts). Be patient while I ease back into reality here.

The Facebook controversy continues, I see. The best discussions and learning occur on the forbidden Forums, however, because the participants are informed and interesting to me. The format is easier to follow and fosters a development of relationship, which is important for audience retention. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Matt and Libby, I am heartenend to see you stop by. Please continue.

manthou — June 30, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Viva Facebook!

PadmaRani — June 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


seamuscallan, I laughed out loud at your analogy. Well-played.

How about this ...

Lou would be Dwyane Wade. He's been here the longest, knows the landscape and has Chicago connections.

Libby would be the bizaaro LeBron James -- the one that didn't choke away multiple Finals games. (Seriously, say what you will about Facebook, but she's done some amazing things with Columbian.com since taking over.)

So that would make me ... Chris Bosh? Yikes.

How about looking at the FB transition as Nicolas Batum? Tons of potential, not there yet, definitely still some question marks.

Just don't compare it to Greg Oden!

Matt Wastradowski — June 30, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ya know what's going to be fun?

Let's see who gets traded away this season.

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now Matt, why not compare it to Greg Oden??? Didn't you hear about his notoriety on TMZ in recent days??? They knew he was a famous ball player...just didn't know who he was, lol. Talk about giving someone an identity crisis! Poor Greg. Any similarity there???

..

Hawkeye....you got me laughing on that one!

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good grief now people are snorting bath salts????
I just got this from a friend...people are snorting bath salts and dying from it? What in the world will they find to snort up their noses next?

http://www2.tricities.com/news/2011/jun/03/synthetic-bath-salts-skirting-law-can-be-deadly-ar-1082470/?referer=http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FkjmyRk&h;=011dc&shorturl;=http://bit.ly/kjmyRk

ELISI — June 30, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay all you liberals... make sure you don't show up at any 4th of July parades (Yeah, like you would). It might be hazardous to your political affiliation:

"Democratic political candidates can skip this weekend's July 4th parades. A new Harvard University study finds that July 4th parades energize only Republicans, turn kids into Republicans, and help to boost the GOP turnout of adults on Election Day...".

"Fourth of July celebrations in the United States shape the nation's political landscape by forming beliefs and increasing participation, primarily in favor of the Republican Party," said the report from Harvard..."

Here's the link, in case you're skeptical or want to read the rest of the article :

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/articles/4th-july-paper-david-yanagizawa-drott

Not surprising, just shows how patriotic liberals are!

scotty — June 30, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh scotty, come on by and we can talk about it, I might even "share" a bottle rocket with you.

Ever seen the fireworks REALLY CLOSE UP? Like about 75 feet in the air?

No?

Well there's always a first time.

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I read your report.

This brain trust you have referenced is really something. I especially like this part:

In their paper, the researchers use a simple but novel strategy to address these problems: they use historical data on rainfall on Fourth of July. When it rains children and their parents are less likely to participate and the events are often cancelled. Moreover, since rain is a random event, some children growing up experience nice weather and are more likely to celebrate, while others are hit by bad weather making it less likely that they join the festivities. This allows the researchers to isolate the effect of attending the celebrations from other important factors such as family background and education.

***ARE YOU KIDDING ME? RAIN? Now there's a deciding factor in determining Republican'ts and Democrats. ***

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess what you are trying to say is that Republican'ts aren't smart enough to come in out of the rain?

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You LibTards are sure sensitive when it hits close to home! Even threatening violence! Now if a conservative made a threat like that...

scotty — June 30, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yup, rain is the deciding factor in political affiliation alright. It has also been shown that people with more college education tend to be democrats. Perhaps Hawkeye is right-republicans might not have the sense to get out of the rain. With that and the education link to democratss, I can assume anyone I see trying to light a wet firecracker Monday is a republican?

mrd — June 30, 2011 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Violence?

No, just an invitation to share.

I just wanted you to know that we ALL celebrate the 4th, rain or shine. Just some of us know how to use an umbrella.

That's all.

LibTard? What's that mean, is that derogatory?

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"David Hedrick, the former 3rd Congressional candidate acquitted in February of assaulting his wife, issued a press release this morning, saying he plans to file a tort claim against Clark County alleging false arrest."

What a POS. Walk away and leave it alone. The cops were doing their job and so was the D.A.

Almost sounds like a ploy for recognition with elections coming up again. Big gamble, though. If you lose, you really lose. Not a smart idea.

Or is it, you are just out of money?

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


David Hedrick continues to be a blight on our community. Now he wants to suck up even more of our resources. Pathetic and an embarrassment to our community.

Good afternoon scotty...are you a 'conservative'?

nailingit — June 30, 2011 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — June 30, 2011 at 11:48 a.m

Although a narrow group of "professional students" lean slightly toward democrat, college graduates in general are evenly split. This is in no way indicative of democrats being more intelligent.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — June 30, 2011 at 12:59 p.m

Or the other way around.

To be fair

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 1:01 p.m

I agree.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you equate Democrat with Liberal, and Republican with Conservative, then someone actually researched this a few years back. College students tended to lean toward the Liberal, and then gradually shifted to Conservative as they got into the "real world." Then, as they got older, the shift was about 50/50 back to Liberal.

But bringing "intelligence" into the equation changes everything. Because that trait is so hard to define, we can claim anything is intelligent. And we have a tendency to confuse education with intelligence. Common sense seems, to me, to be a more desirable attribute.

roger — June 30, 2011 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 30, 2011 at 1:54 p.m.

I would question the intelligence of anyone regardless of political affiliation, that follows blindly their party doctrine.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro, you wouldn't be referring to Ms. Jamie..... Would you?

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

No argument. I quit considering myself anything other than an independent by the time I reached age 30.

However, what would you think if I suggested substituting "religious" for "party" in your comment?

roger — June 30, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 30, 2011 at 2:52 p.m.

I have a hard time grasping the concept a supreme being, so I am incapable of an educated opinion when it comes to religion. I would think that the point of the word faith is to accept as fact without proof. Perhaps that is why the founders felt that the government didn't belong in the religion business.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert-This is in no way indicative of democrats being more intelligent.

I agree, I was just trying to inject a little humor. Apparently I didn't realize how little. Dumb doen't pay much attention to political parties, it simply goes where it goes.

mrd — June 30, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Democratic and Republican Parties...to me no difference just opposite sides of the same coin. The only thing that matters is who's pocket the coin is in.

pdxtech91 — June 30, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


PDX

... or who's it comes from.

DeeLittle — June 30, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, no matter what we agree or disagree with in life, politics, corruption, crime or anything else...your exposure of the Rainbow Gathering and the videos you present is a great reminder of just what is important in life and that is life itself. The video you presented is a wonderful representation of the depth of these gatherings and what is real.

I thank you.

goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, GO: See you at the Rainbow Family Gathering, eh?

As they say, anyone with a belly button is a member, and maybe even those that don't.

Does that mean the press is invited?

Do dah Buddha. :)

manthou — June 30, 2011 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh snarkyjammies,

If you are going to quote me, please do it the right way. What I said was:

"What a POS. Walk away and leave it alone. The cops were doing their job and so was the D.A. " In reference to Mr. Hedrick

And: I see old Bobbo is on a roll. I know it's protected free speech but man, that's racist stuff. "Obama is after all, nothing more than an old-school African Colonial" Geeze Bobbo, you make my butt pucker. Such hate and discontent.

So what is it you don't like, the fact that I'm picking on your friends? Too damn bad.

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Remember grammar school? Most classes had a little snitch that would run to the teacher and tattle-tale. sporty must have been at the top of his class! My god the mentality that exists with some adults....sigh

nailingit — June 30, 2011 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — June 30, 2011 at 6:52 a.m.

You do realize don't you that the MS in MSNBC stands for Microsoft?

And where did I say the Journal was liberal?

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — June 30, 2011 at 12:35 p.m.

I don't think the GOP or any other party has taken any stand against "fibrous claims"

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — June 30, 2011 at 6:49 a.m.

Sorry I took the day off from the intertubes and am probably late in this response.

You said: "I thank you for sharing your comment with me but in all fairness, we wouldn't have survived living in our home if I didn't take to heart Glenn Beck's suggestions to eliminate our debt and save for that rainy day...even though it ended up a downpour all at once for us. We most likely would've been forced out of our home of 32 years. I also took in the suggestion to stock up the pantry with foodstuffs and dry goods we use, not just to stock up to say we have a full pantry. Although this is also something my parents used to tell me, it took a well-versed radio/television personality to play that over and over in my head in order for me to get the ball rolling. Glenn Beck also has pushed for many years the fact that we need to become independent of the government and join in on the effort of friends and neighbors helping each other. Dfsadfh, do you truly see a problem with what I believe Glenn Beck was spot on?"

goldenoldie this is part of what the LDS has always preached. I've lived in cities in Arizona where the only homes that had basements were the LDS homes because the LDS elders wanted their followers to have the pantry that you speak of. This predates Beck's comments by any number of years. Please remember that he is a late comer to the LDS. I'm certainly glad that these suggestions helped you out but they are old suggestions, Beck had nothing to do with them.

"I'm not saying everything he said was accurate. In fact, some of what he said was twisted to fit his agenda which in my book puts him at the same level as some of our most corrupt elected officials...but he has opened my eyes to issues I had either shrugged off as something I could never fight against or as something I felt our vote would never count. Luckily, he isn't a politician but he is an eye opener."

I'm going to outsource this paragraph to Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/index), today, on the last day that Beck will be broadcast on Fox News they have compiled what could be considered a greatest hits list of Beck's most egregious statements. From my point of view most of them are absolutely sickening.

"We will see gasoline approach $5.00 a gallon (2009) btw...we've reached that plateau here this year, haven't we!!! Can't dispute that one."

Well, actually I can, I have not seen any gasoline prices in the US go over $5.00 and at present they seem to be in the $3.60 range. I lived in Germany for most of the 1990's and certainly saw $5.00 dollar prices over there, but not here as yet.

continued

dfsadfh — June 30, 2011 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


continued

"Government Spending is creating an economic holocaust (CPAC Speech 2010) Must I remind you of what is about to happen in August/September with our national budget and what could happen to the US Dollar? Are you ready?"

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are talking about here. If you are talking about the deficit then the easiest thing to do is to do nothing, once the Bush tax cuts expire then the US should regain it's footing. If it isn't the deficit then please tell me what you're concerned about.

"He stands by the words of the three great virtues of the New Testament..."Faith, Hope and Charity." Not saying you have to be religious to follow the words of the New Testament, but honestly...can you really argue with that, dfsadfh?"

Again, not sure what you are talking about, where did you get Faith, Hope, and Charity from as the three great virtues. Me, I'm an atheist so biblical references occasionally go right over my head. I've read the Bible and I always thought that the main features of the New Testament were: "Love thy neighbor as yourself" and the good old golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So really if Mr Beck attacks my views does this really mean that he wants/needs me to attack his views?

""You cannot take away freedom to protect it, you cannot destroy the free market to save it, and you cannot uphold freedom of speech by silencing those with whom you disagree. To take rights away to defend them or to spend your way out of debt defies common sense." — Glenn Beck, Common Sense, 2009"

In a way, I agree, sort of, with what he is saying at least about the freedom of speech issues. The free market part and the spending the way of of debt part I have no idea what he is talking about, please elucidate.

"Now I am not saying an old "Shock Jock" doesn't carry a bag of hot air, but I am saying that I listen to all sides of the spectrum and search for the good in all people. That is my nature, dfsadfh. Glenn Beck, in all his years on television has provided good points worth listening to. To close your mind just because you don't like someone...you are doing yourself an injustice, my friend."

Yes, this is the Shock Jock who once called up his competitors wife just after she had a miscarriage and made fun of her and him, "...can't even do anything right, even have a baby." I'm simply glad that he is off the TV and will lose a good deal of his listening audience. You may listen to him whenever you want but there is no way that I would ever listen or watch somebody like Beck, it's taken me 20 or 30 years to get my blood pressure where it should be instead of the pre-hypertension area, mostly by getting my weight down, no way I'm going to increase it by listening to his rants.

dfsadfh — June 30, 2011 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anybody see the news about the Senator from Kansas?

Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) on Thursday said President Obama should pop a Valium to calm down before coming to talk with Congress about a deficit deal.

“Now he says it isn’t worth his time to come down and talk with Republicans,” said Roberts. “I remember when he talked to Republicans before and all we got was a lecture.

“So maybe if he would just take a Valium and calm down and come down and talk to us it might be helpful,” he added.

“The president indicated that we are all going to work,” Roberts said at a press conference with Senate Republicans. “Well, we are going to be here and, unfortunately, not working on a deal because a deal does not exist.”

***Is this how you talk to your President??? I would suggest, Mr. Roberts, that you and your buddies should get off your dead butts and get to work and settle this. ***

hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — June 30, 2011 at 9:59 p.m.

It's called politics, just take a valium and calm down.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — June 30, 2011 at 10:24 p.m.

Buckeye71 may have pointed out the Journal artical it referenced but your line came word for word from democraticunderground.com, and I believe that qualifies as a liberal blog.

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry should have been article

frobert — June 30, 2011 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


-sportyjames-
"And these same posters are still trying to get you to ban certain other posters with whom they disagree."

Guess I missed something. I didn't realize there was a lot of agreement about anything here.

roger — July 1, 2011 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


dfsadfh, thanks for the rather lengthy (as mine are as well) but well presented comment in response to my write. You have definitely given me some information to reflect upon. In your statement, you said I could continue following Glenn Beck. Well, that's not my intention. I've gotten all the information out of him I care to...if not too much. With regards to the LDS and the information he has shared, it doesn't matter where it came from with regards to preparing for emergencies. It's still good information and when repeated enough, I finally listened and I'm glad I did. Now, as far as a paragraph taken to share with Media Matters...be my guest. I haven't said anything I would change my mind on or be sorry for saying. When I write, I say what is on my mind and what I perceive as the truth. Whether my truths are different from yours or anybody else...that's in the eye of the beholder.

I believe when GB spoke of the free market, I believe he was speaking about tighter regulations against the entrepreneur, the farmers and the ranchers, but I may be incorrect. All that comes to mind is the issues behind the farmers and ranchers of the United States and the foothold Monsanto and Dow have on just how much a farmer or rancher can grow and what products they may or may not use. As I have stated many a time in the past, I'm still trying to understand the political process and it still boggles my mind.

Now the message of "Faith, Hope and Charity," in MY understanding...

You must have faith...faith in yourself, your religion, your non religion and the world around you...but you must have that inner drive or faith to make the best of your life. In times like these, many of us are hoping the world will turn around, that wars will end and that life will be better and people will once again want to work together to make our world a better place with poverty and starvation left in the past. To have hope for a better life, you must have the inner faith. With regards to Charity, that lies within each and every one of us. To give of yourself, your heart...to share time to help others, to provide comfort and friendship, to give to others knowledge...even going as far as donating your skills or even foodstuffs to those less fortunate is an act of Charity. To give of charity, you must have the inner faith and hope that provides the strength to be charitable.

That's what I get out of the "Faith, Hope, Charity" stance.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


SportyJames, please join in on the conversation of issues of our community, of politics, of life. Your comments regarding what is happening around here is always welcome as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, you made me smile. I will not be attending the Rainbow Gathering although I'm intrigued by the earthiness of the gathering and the message they share. Really, do we have to attend such a gathering in order to acquire the reality of life and everything it has to offer? I guess we all wish life could be so friendly, so utopian...but it begins with one person. On Monday, I will reflect upon the meaning of why we celebrate the 4th and what it took in order for our country to celebrate the day. I will honor those who died fighting for our rights as well for the brave ones in our military forces who to this day believe in their hearts that what they are doing is the right thing, along with those who have sacrificed everything and are at home, many who will suffer the cost of war for the rest of their lives....

and I will show my thanks to the world for what surrounds me and who I share it with, no matter how small it is on this big Green Earth. Life is precious and we must take care of it to the best of our abilities.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, goldenoldie!

Love, gratitude, forgiveness. Understanding that we are all connected and that our thoughts infect or heal. I think you get it. :)

Enjoy your holiday, wherever you may be!

manthou — July 1, 2011 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you, Manthou. I guess I'm having one of my own revelations this week...8)
And you enjoy your weekend as well, my friend.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, you might reread my comment on Faith, Hope and Charity. It isn't about religion in my book. It's the gift giving of yourself and of kindness and humility. It's not about an assault on dignity. You ever notice how pride gets in the way of accomplishments in life??? You speak of the wonders of the Rainbow Gathering yet you chime in about your wealth and your freedom to spend a day on your sailboat or hanging with your buddies on a ride to Mt St Helens...leaving behind the rat race. Rather than making it sound like you boast about not having a financial care in the world, speak about how people can achieve that personal freedom rather than condemn those who are still stuck in their 9-5'er job or stuck on UI or Welfare. That my friend, is giving of yourself..to share your knowledge and your inner strength and your willpower to take control of your life. That is what I speak of, Alley.

Anyhow...I've attended many a celebration such as the one on Alberta Street and they are happening, just in smaller scales. Community gatherings are wonderful. They just don't have the exposure that the Alberta Street Fair has. Every year in our neighborhood on the fourth, it's like one big party. Everyone coming together and celebrating our freedoms. Some of the neighbors get together and have picnics but by night fall, we are all together as one.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, thanks. I'll do that. Alley, I may have given you the wrong impression that the only gatherings I ever involve myself in are just within my neighborhood. I have attended festivals like these throughout many locations, even in Australia. There's nothing like them.

Out of curiosity, Alleycat...have you ever heard of the group, "The Trail Band?" One of the members and his family are very close friends of a family member of mine and is an extension of our family in heart and soul. We were honored with his talents when we celebrated the life of my older brother when he passed. You'd be surprised at just what type of venues my family partakes in..let it be music fests, historic encampments, nature studies, museum happenings, celebration of seasons...what have you. I guess I can say...I'm an old hippy( sounds like a song, lol). Never did the drug scene...never interested. I've always been more in tune with life and what it has to offer than the average Jane of the 60's and 70's.

My philosophy in life is...

"If you have to get High, climb a mountain peak and view the valley below. If you have to get away from it all, take a hike or a road trip but never turn your back on what is most important...your family and friends."

Have a wonderful and safe weekend to you Alleycat...and to all in Columbianland! Seize the moment.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sporty We do have guidelines for posting to these forums but aside from direct personal attacks, profanity and a few other restrictions, we don't pull comments. The idea was to clean up the forums but not get rid of the sometimes passionate and mostly entertaining and thoughtful responses. It's OK with us if things get heated sometimes, as long as it's within the guidelines.

Libby Clark — July 1, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Same to you goldenoldie. Looks like a nice, summer weekend for lots of working people who will get a three day weekend.
Can't say I care for the traditional celebration of July 4 as in years past. I am not begrudging of it to anyone. I just feel more affinity for a spiritual focus such as those represented by the rainbow gathering.I would rather fly the rainbow flag in solidarity with the spirit of not one nation, but one people, here on our lonely planet together. I will fly the American Flag again when we can live up the the standards we aspire to a little more closely. The fireworks display reminds me of military munitions being exploded in a prideful display, but of what? Trillions of dollars, thousands of lives lost in a war against Islam. Its so sad to think about the good we could have done with all of those resources.

mangoboy — July 1, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Columbian has an article today about the Hilton debt payment. It seems they're on track to make the one due today, but had to dip into a county hotel tax fund for about 1/2 mil to make the one due back in January.

Seeing as how the article say state law requires that fund must be used for things that promote tourism - what has the Vancouver Center/Hilton done in this area? The Wine and Jazz festival is mentioned - is this a money maker and is the hotel involved with this? What other tourist attractions? Or is the Hilton project allowed to slide by posting a local attractions link on their website?

What is our overall return on our investment in this facility? I've seen Columbian articles on various gatherings, but most appear to be local groups. Is there an influx of outside money? Or are we just spreading wealth that is already here?

It would be nice to see The Columbian do an in-depth "however many years later" look at where we are with the Vancouver Center. I suspect it won't be pretty; the Vancouver City website's last post is a 2006 ICC document that seems to suggest it's a money loser.

roger — July 1, 2011 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Poor malcontent...being forced to come here and be subjected to posts in a forum. LOL!

JiveSoulBro — July 1, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat thanks for your links, they are without exception interesting and edifying.

I really share your sense of frustration with the progress of our community. I think what really makes it aggravating it to see all the potential here lying fallow and being wasted by many outside powers combined with the local ignorance. Its like a colonial situation in some ways.

mangoboy — July 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dear Commissioner Stuart, Your blatant end run around not only the rules but the will of people is just another reason why people don't trust politicians to do anything the right way or to do the right thing.
Moving the Biomass across the street to bypass approval of the Vancouver City Council still does not solve the problems you have with the plant. Biomass is on the way out, the Government is looking to remove it from the green energy list and then there goes your tax credits you want to lure private investors with. There will still be truck traffic hauling in forest debris many times a day. Most of all you will quickly find that operating a Biomass plant will become a millstone around the County's neck.
Get out while you can, Commissioner, save some dignity and either keep your natural gas boilers or make a deal with Clark PUD. No one wants this but you.

bredbaker — July 1, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

I read the same article about the Hilton Hotel and had similar questions. Another that brought up questions was the article about the Evergreen School District budget for 2011-2012. It had me scratching my head.

Marissa writes that John Deeder proposes $9.5million in cuts, but doesn't give us the "From What" figure. Is there a proposed 2011-2012 budget that is being trimmed down? It just mentions that the 2010-2011 budget was $241Mil. Is this the figure they are working from?

I question this because the school district is building a new magnet high school and it seems strange that they are eliminating programs from existing schools and still building others.

pdxtech91 — July 1, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal



sportyjames — June 30, 2011 at 7:34 p.m

Well good morning to you also sportyboy.
I see you haven't had your cup of tea and bran muffin this morning, shame actually. Or, is it that you did and got caught in a traffic jam? Those days that happens are real...stinkers are they?
Never leave home unprepared sportyboy, if you want I can mail you some coupons for baby-wipes and mouth wash, that way you can be clean at both ends.. will that help you out?

ELISI — July 1, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi -

OWWWW!!!!!

roger — July 1, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sportyjames,

I see you've completed your periodic check-in, and graced everyone with your same tired nonsense about there only being 10 posters here. Interesting...angry kind of fellow you are! Can't help but wonder if you roam the streets talking to yourself, scaring the little children as you grunt and ramble on about people talking in an online forum.

Allow me to expose you as a right proper liar, and lay waste to your false narrative. There are, in fact, well over the 10 posters that you claim. In fact, I was able to count 25 with very little effort. Bloody fantastic news for you, bub! You now have more people to hate...as an early Christmas present, here's a list for you to salivate over:

Allen, AllenAnderson, alleycat, bredbaker, buckeye71, DeeLittle, dfsadfh, ELISI, frobert, goldenoldie, hawkeye, JiveSoulBro, mangoboy, manthou, mrd, nailingit, PadmaRani, pdxtech91, playa, rincon1, roger, scotty, seamuscallan, Striker991, tax_payer

Apologies to anyone I've missed, but don't worry - the miserable bloke has plenty of hate for all.

playa — July 1, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Playa, there's also JohnCasey, DanielWaterhouse, Col_Wrightwing, mxfun118, willbridge, luvithere, Mr Basil Seal, van-native, jbruneel, the_shadow, Tired-of-the-whining, kn_dalai, facebook, pineywoman1, Woosker, Drift, proudprogressive and yet more. We also must consider Lou Brancaccio, Libby Tucker and Matt Wastradowski along with any other Columbian writer who shares their wise words as well. In this cyber world...we are all posters and the number is always on the rise. The more the merrier, I say. As word gets out that the *basement* is always available to share comments, the number rises.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A quote from Paris A's column on a slower county growth -

"That's in spite of economist declarations that the recession was over in 2010."

Corporate America may consider the economy on the upswing, but working America is still sliding further downward. Ms. Achen, I suggest that if you're going to be the "middle class" reporter, you need to quit talking with so-called experts and start talking with the people who have seen their life savings evaporate, home values drop lower and lower, cost of a college education escalate to astronomic levels, and the daily living expenses (food, gas, utilities, etc) grow higher than ever. There are other "experts" who say we have yet to feel the full effect of Greenspan's prime rate manipulations and that a depression is in our future. And looking at the EU nations that are tanking, if I had to bet I'd put my money on what these people say.

roger — July 1, 2011 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Got to love the basement. its a little mouldy in the corners, but hey, what do you expect for free?

Haven't seen any posts on Glenn Beck today. Whats up with that?

mangoboy — July 1, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, we are becoming more and more a species of haves and have nots. billions living on the equivalent of a few dollars a day, versus everybody else. And lets not also forget the stresses on our middle class.

mangoboy — July 1, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Playa and Allen, AllenAnderson, alleycat, bredbaker, buckeye71, DeeLittle, dfsadfh, ELISI, frobert, goldenoldie, hawkeye, JiveSoulBro, mangoboy, manthou, mrd, nailingit, PadmaRani, pdxtech91, playa, rincon1, roger, scotty, seamuscallan, Striker991, tax_payer

I don't know if any of you are on Twitter, but Stephanie Rice added her name to other Columbian employees today.

@col_clarkgov Stephanie Rice

@col_cityhall Andrea Damewood

@col_smallcities Ray Legendre

------------------------------------------

Hat tip to Playa for keeping track of us. Let's hope that Sporty was in "Get Off My Lawn" mode and will have something constructive to contribute at some point. [BTW, do you think he is Larimer?]

buckeye71 — July 1, 2011 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie

Thanks for your name additions. I didn't see your post until after mine posted. I think it would be interesting to know how many of us live in the Skamania, Clark, and Cowlitz area. I haven't really tracked but when I have looked at FB Profiles it seems like many are not connected to this area.

I'm also a fan of the Trail Band. I worked with a person who was with the band at the time.

buckeye71 — July 1, 2011 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Who was it you worked with, buckeye71. Male or female? Our family friend plays the dulcimer. BTW, I'm in Clark.

goldenoldie — July 1, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71 — July 1, 2011 at 2:24 p.m.

He's defiantly not Larimer, bobbo likes to see his name in print too much to use an alias.

Also, he actually believes everything he says so he has nothing to hide.

Kinda sad, really.

hawkeye — July 1, 2011 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie

Don't want to post his name but this will identify him. He is an MIT grad and I believe he is a brilliant man. One of the nicest and most decent men I have met. He is talented in many ways and has a lovely family.

I am in City of Vancouver.

buckeye71 — July 1, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye

You're right. He thinks that someone here is interested in his child/children so he wouldn't want to associate with us. He is really out there to think that. He was new to me when he started on FB so I read a few posts but now I just skip over Lew and him.

It is sad. I wonder if he and family live an isolated existence since he is so limited and with so many challenges.

buckeye71 — July 1, 2011 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71

I guess I missed the "assault" on his kids. I can't imagine anyone blaming the kids for "the sins of the father".

I actually worked with HIS Father and liked him very much.

BTW, I'm in the Battle Ground area, Clark County.

hawkeye — July 1, 2011 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, Vancouver

frobert — July 1, 2011 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Is this the first controversy associated with my campaign? Not to worry. Word has it on the street that Bobbo the Clown felt his right to vote was in jeopardy due to the 3rd Grade comprehension litmus test for republicans he feared imposed if I were to become president. He feared the results from 'Project frobro* could be shaped into legislation to disallow most/all Baggers from exercising the right to their poles come voting time.

Hawk I counseled with A. Weiner on this highly publisized pubic matter. Weiner advised me to stand firm in the face of...adversity, and given the subject matter, not to prematurely abdicate our position.

nailingit — July 1, 2011 at 10:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*[ref.] dribble, dribbling, drivel, drive, driven; spandex- trans-nation i.e. comprendo salivito

nailingit — July 1, 2011 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — June 29, 2011 at 5:35 p.m.

alleycat, we're working on verifying the commenters as best we can. It's a work-in-progress.

Like I said, the Facebook transition hasn't been completely smooth. That is one of the challenges.

Richard Nixon
Tea Party still sounds better than Racist Homophobe Douchebag party.......
1 · · Reply · 21 hours ago

Douglas Tooley · Tacoma, Washington
Richard Nixon - I prefer alcoholic gang banger whose future is a restraining order posted on the trailer door....
1 · · Reply · 21 hours ago

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/01/letter-stand-divisive-tea-party-rhetoric/#comments

Bob Larimer · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
Gene, without a doubt you have a 'Coexist!' sticker on your car.
You can not coexist with people who want to saw off your head while chanting to allah.
If you want to try to 'arbitrate, mediate and reconciliate' with muslims who are dedicated to killing you, feel free.
The rest of us are pretty sure we'd like to have our military stand between us and global Islam.
1 · · Reply · 23 hours ago

Gen Kortes · Top Commenter
Bob, you are one of those living in FEAR. I stand with HOPE. Coexist means inTERdependence. Obama is a militant corporatist and our endless wars are immoral and devastating our economy.
· Reply · 18 hours ago

Bob Larimer · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
Explain it to the muslims, just before they saw through your vocal chords, or since you are a lady, just before they stone you to death.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/01/letter-resolutions-swamped-heat-war/#comments

Bob Larimer · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
So Joel, can you show me what emergency has arisen that requires a radical redefinition of marriage, after 3 centuries of man-woman covenants on this continent?
Claimed sexual behaviors

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jun/30/letter-document-twisted-fit-agenda/#comments

Bob Larimer · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
How long will loyal, old-school Democrats keep voting for these looney Left liberals who tax and spend them to death, while pandering to mixed nuts and assorted fruits special interests?
It is long past time to desert the party that has deserted them.
· Reply · June 28 at 4:05pm

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jun/28/jay-inslee-brings-gubernatorial-campaign-to-vancou/#comments

So fake accounts & lots of name-calling.

Real civil......

On the + side; wait, there is no plus side, I can hide the commenters who make no sense on either system; you can ban anyone who you think don't meet your standards.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2011 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Time to step back for a moment and thank Lou and crew at The Columbian for keeping this site going. One of the First Amendment freedoms included in Lew's quiz (in his column) is the right of assembly - something we're able to do electronically here.

roger — July 2, 2011 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In Press Talk this moring, Lou B is the first commenter and says:

"Lou Brancaccio · Top Commenter · University of Florida
Hope everyone has a great Fourth. Please considering liking this so your friends can take the quiz as well."

Well, many of us like your column, Lou, but are denied the opportunity to tell you so or engage in a dialogue with you and others there due to the Facebook gatekeeper.

It feels like the Game of Thrones Wall: cold, uniniviting and impenetrable.

You'd have a lot more commenters and lively e-conversations if you would open the darn thing up again.

Do it for your ol' Chicago homey, Lou. Or at least pay us a visit in the basement here so we can share ideas with you about First Amendment rights and the unfairness of minimizing opinion based on where you were born.

Have a safe and Happy 4th, all!

manthou — July 2, 2011 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger: Good morning to you! I posted a link for you on the Downtown Development Forum.

I agree with your 7:33 am post. I forgot to thank The Columbian staff for keeping the Forum option open. I am grateful for that, as it does celebrate our First Amendment rights very well, indeed!

manthou — July 2, 2011 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — July 1, 2011 at 10:38 p.m

I feel that the sooner you step out of the limelight, the better off we will all be. Although disavowing all knowledge and blaming your campaign manager is always an option.

frobert — July 2, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Lou, for the right to assemble here in the basement. We are indeed all grateful for your kind generosity in allowing us our constitutional rights. And by the way, I love Chicago. I understand there is a senate seat available for sale there?

mangoboy — July 2, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat at 8:06: Thanks for the video link! I am about halfway through it and find it very interesting.

I paid attention to the question that was asked early on: Should you trust Facebook with your personal information? Why do so many people do this?

Also, I find it so sad that success now is tied to creating this shallow Facebook following. Even Lou this morning asked readers to "like" his story. The more thumbs up icons, the better? Really?

I have a friend who is expanding his therapy practice to treatment of internet addictions and Facebook looms large in this illness.

I will finish the video and let you know what I learned from it. :) Let's get off the computers today and enjoy this beautiful weekend!

manthou — July 2, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good and needed LTTE from Dave Boroughs today regarding our states future. We need to study states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Kansas and so many others that have been negatively impacted since the debacle of the 2010 election. What the right is doing on a legislative level is absurd. These backhanded tactics need to be continually exposed as well as front and center come voting time. The conservative right's social engineering 'surge' needs to be stopped at the polls next year.

nailingit — July 2, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...in the world of basketball, your comment at 7:05 would be best referred to as a ....

SLAM DUNK!!!!

Good one.

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


To any of you praising Lou for keeping the availability of posting on the C anonymously, I don't think he's got much of a choice. If they only chose Facebook as the sole application, there might be a violation by the FCC involved. I think it would be a case of either all or nothing when it comes to our constitutional rights and posting on the C.

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 2, 2011 at 8:22 a.m.

Not nice, bubba. My candidate would NEVER blame anybody for something they didn't do. Unlike A. Weiner and his last (and possibly final) foray before the camera. Our campaign is quite possibly the most transparent campaign ever seen.

As we get ready for the trip to Hawaii to interview for chief of staff, and put things in place for the campaign, I will remind you that "project Frobro" will not go away and that we do in fact need a qualifying test for voters.

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal



goldie @0935,

Perhaps - and again, maybe not. But, as I think you've said before, a little politeness never hurts. Especially with this facebook or not issue.

On the other hand - no problems with pointing out to Lew and crew that requiring "real names" doesn't do a damned thing toward cleaning up the insults, incivility, etc. Looks to me as though Matt might have given up.

roger — July 2, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


litterbug — July 2, 2011 at 10:37 a.m.

Oh bug, nice of you to drop by. Haven't seen you for a while, everything OK? Are you having Beck withdrawals yet? I guess noy until next week, huh? I see you are still stuck in the grips of the Republican't party. Good for you. Maybe Michelle Bachmann can help you out. She seems to know ALL the facts.

Well, have a nice fourth and don't blow off any appendages. (that means anything that sticks out like fingers and stuff)

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good point hawkeye! Let's take a look at all those gaffes of Bachmann's. Watch the entire video and then let's have a good laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVMhz0...

PegoMan — July 2, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No hawkeye Bachmann doesn't have all the facts, Obama does! LMAO! He just can't get any of them straight without his teleprompter! What a farce. Oh well you voted him in, we'll just have to wait for some sane people to vote him out.

scotty — July 2, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HOOORAY!!!! The biggest eyesore in the Sifton area is FINALLY getting cleaned up. I agree with the person in the article who says they think the house will have to be leveled and hauled away. Maybe in place could be a nice little green space or one of those rainwater collection mini habitats we're seeing sprawled all over the county. That way, all memory of what was once there will be gone.

Folks, there was even an old trailer on the property which someone stripped it down to the nubbins for scrap metal. I feel so bad for the neighbors to have to go through what they have gone through. This is a bitter but sweet ending to a longstanding problem in their neighborhood.

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


scotty — July 2, 2011 at 4:33 p.m

Really? You want to go there? Neither one of the Bushs could get through a speech without help.

I think it's just good sense to use them, a little insurance, if you will.

And yes, I did vote him in and will again next year.

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey! Anybody notice in Lou Brancaccio's Press Talk Column that we have the Statue of Liberty sharing notes with Lou??? Of course they are going by the alias "Scott Maclay!" What an honor to have Lady Liberty in our presence during the Fourth of July Weekend!!!

Whatever happened to that issue of putting a face to the name? Is Scott really...Lady Liberty????

Okay, okay...I'll stop the sarcasm.

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Boy...I was joking about an electric vehicle charging station at the proposed parking garage across from Clark College. Now that Clark PUD has one...they won't need it in the parking garage for the 2 or 3 electric cars that will use the garage per year, lolololol. I still think we're being forced into the Flintstones Mobile era once again.

Yabba Dabba Dooooooo!!!!

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


“The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.” ~ JFK

I hope all have a safe, sane and enjoyable 4th!

ELISI — July 2, 2011 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks EL, you too.

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, I am no fan of Obama as you would probably expect. But that doesn't mean that Bush is awesome (not that you have accused me of that). I am not interested in playing the favorite President game.

But here are a couple of questions. What are we as a nation doing spending almost 65% more than we bring in? We have brought in $2.195T this year but have spent $3,85T. And yes, let's wind down some wars, starting with Libya.

Why are we not developing our own oil? The administration seems bent on crushing our domestic oil. And yet they showed that bringing oil into the market decreases the price we have to pay. Unfortunately, since we can't replace it with our own oil we are likely to be replacing it with more expensive oil...Bummer....

Let's discuss solutions..

tax_payer — July 2, 2011 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Presidents Day, Flag Day, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day. Just a little over the top with the patriotic stuff? Or is there no such thing as being too patriotic. Should those who are not sufficiently patriotic be asked to surrender their citizenship? Should the lack of patriotism be a crime against the state similar to treason?

mangoboy — July 2, 2011 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 6:08 p.m

*Now that Clark PUD has one...they won't need it in the parking garage for the 2 or 3 electric cars that will use the garage per year, lolololol. I still think we're being forced into the Flintstones Mobile era once again.
Yabba Dabba Dooooooo!!!!*

http://consumerist.com/2011/03/rolls-royce-unveils-16-million-electric-car.html

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/audis-electric-car-gets-even-hotter/

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

http://mashable.com/2011/07/01/toyota-scion-iq/

http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/

http://gas2.org/2010/02/15/a-short-test-drive-in-the-ford-transit-connect-electric-a-few-more-details/

http://gas2.org/2010/03/13/plug-in-hybrid-f-150-conversion-is-still-a-pickup-and-thats-a-good-thing/

Yup, electric Rolls-Royce and hybrid F150 pickups

.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2011 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


tax_payer — July 2, 2011 at 8:28 p.m.

I agree, we are spending way too much and it needs to get under control.

If it were up to me, (like anyone listens to me) the first thing I would do is change the whole tax structure. I would go with a flat tax for everyone, period. No deductions, period. No out of country banks, period. Of course after a while the need for the IRS would diminish and some people would be out of work but no more than now. Also, all those people who use those companies to get a break on their tax bills, pay up. No more excuses. I have to pay mine, so do you.

Secondly, cut the amount of aid we "give" away. Unless we are getting something in return, forget it.

Third, bring oil under regulation. We need to cut the cost of gas and diesel at least $2 a gallon to get this country going again. If they can do that, people will start driving, buying and feeling better about themselves and the country again. Confidence is a huge bandaid.

Just a few ideas, my favs.

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 9:28 p.m.
*Third, bring oil under regulation. We need to cut the cost of gas and diesel at least $2 a gallon...*

Might need to flesh that out with some details.....

http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=gasoline_factors_affecting_prices

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/gasprices/faq.shtml

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2011 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2011 at 10:07 p.m.

OK, first thing to do is stabilize the price of oil by removing it from speculation. Every time the price of oil goes up so does the cost of gas even though the oil price is for future deliveries and has nothing to do with today's prices. We need to pay the actual cost of the oil, not speculate.

hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 11:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone see this before?

http://www.dailyinsider.info/

I never knew it existed until a colleague sent me a link about an article of mutual interest this morning.

I welcome other sources of information focused on SW Washington.

manthou — July 3, 2011 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 2, 2011 at 11:17 p.m. (

You are looking for to "cut the cost of gas and diesel at least $2 a gallon", about 1/2 the current price.

How much is caused by speculation?

"“The key question you should be asking is the following,” says Hamilton. “Is the current price too high in the sense that the physical quantity being produced is greater than the physical quantity being consumed? If yes, then where is the difference going, and what mechanism accounts for that?” Left unsaid is the “if no.” But if no, then who is supposed to start using less oil in the coming years, and if the answer is no one, then how, absent recurrent recessions, are we supposed to make what oil we have go around at a price the global economy can handle?

On some level, speculation is an easy problem to handle. It’s a problem you can crack down on. The same can’t be said for China, Saudi Arabia or the world’s dependence on oil."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/if-only-speculation-explained-gas-prices/2011/04/27/AF70yqFF_blog.html

So, maybe there needs to be some digging into where you will find that ~$1.70 to cut.

And it probably bears mentioning that there are many EU countries faring quite well with ~$8 a gallon gas. Might have to do with the taxes being used......

And, not to change the subject too much, but there's that pesky ACC issue that a rise in burning fossil fuels won't help. Not to mention there is a lot of documentation showing how rise in CO2 is starting to cost the economy $$$$ ....

So there are lots of ways to boost the economy as we know it (if that is really what we should be doing) that don't involve chasing after a boogeyman.

mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 7:59 a.m-

Wouldn't an increase in co2 equal an increase in food production?

frobert — July 3, 2011 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...gotta love your comments, my friend. You've brought a *pudding smile* to my face this morning!

If you can afford a $1.6 million-dollar electric-powered Rolls Royce or a $109,000 Tesla Roadster, then why in the blue blazes would you even think of parking it in the garages by Clark College???? Haven't you been reading about all the vehicle thefts and break ins in the area the past year?????

goldenoldie — July 3, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI and Manthou...I reciprocate the wishes for a safe and happy Fourth to you as well as everyone else.

goldenoldie — July 3, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For the sake of conversation, I'll round off numbers. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons, and the average yield is 20 gallons of gasoline. So if oil jumped from $60/barrel to $102/barrel, $42 would be added to the price of 42 gallons, raising the price of gas $1/gal. I really doubt if one dollar would be the actual increase, the actual increase would likely be much more. One doesn't have to look further than an oil company's profit reports to see where most of the money goes.

Having said that, if I was making money from selling gas, and people would pay three dollars for gas, why not see if they'd pay four dollars? We should only feel "gouged" if we want to live a lifestyle that consumes a lot of gas, and feel entitled to do so. Besides, we can chase all the boogeymen we want, as long as we line up to fill up, nothing will change.

mrd — July 3, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What I'm trying to say here is that the country "runs" on perception. If the price of gas goes down, which effects virtually everyone, the perception is that things are getting better. People will be happier, they will be willing to buy more and it will give the economy a kick in the pants. The price of gasoline is the one main focus point for 95% of the country. And if you don't believe me about perception, just look what happens to the stock market when there is some kind of bad news that really doesn't have anything to do with it.

hawkeye — July 3, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 3, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.

No.

"While wheat and rice showed some increases in yield, the increases were so small that they "were not statistically significant"."
http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptic_arguments/CO2-fertilization.html

And other ACC effects are negative,

"The warming of the Earth has cooled the yields of corn and wheat in much of the world, a new study finds.

Although agricultural advances have pushed global production of staple crops skyward, hotter temperatures in Russia, China, Mexico and elsewhere have stunted that growth and contributed to the long-term rise in food prices, says the analysis published Thursday in the journal Science."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/report-global-warming-already-crimping-crop-production-pushing-prices-higher/2011/05/04/AFdsMSzF_story.html

mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My perception of the stock market is that it's insane. Down 150 on worries about Greece's debt problems, then up 200 in two days-worries over. Two weeks later, same thing.
California has an economy that dwarfs Greece's. No worries there-and it's just as broke. I don't know who's crazier, the traders or the people that explain their trading.
The Wall Sreet traders seem to love volatility. Must be good money buying short.

mrd — July 3, 2011 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


electric-powered Rolls Royce or a $109,000 Tesla Roadster, then why...

goldenoldie — July 3, 2011 at 9:04 a.m.

I still think we're being forced into the Flintstones Mobile era once again.

Yabba Dabba Dooooooo!!!!

goldenoldie — July 2, 2011 at 6:08 p.m.

The point being made is that we aren't in, as was postulated last week, a "middle school science project".

So, one charging parking spot isn't quite what we need. And there aren't really any performance issues involved for the majority of drivers.

mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 3, 2011 at 9:51 a.m.

You still haven't addressed how you would cut $2 per gallon.

mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More great FB civility:

Bill Hamby
I was up there last weekend on a poker run for Nicks Tavern. The cops told us it was ok to run them over or shoot them. I thought "Greast, A Poker Run/Hunting trip!" Then after seeing some of them I didn't want to get my bike dirty hitting them. I don't think the ones I saw knew what soap or a washing machine was.
· Reply · 14 minutes ago

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/02/Rainbows-locals-bemoan-Forest-Service-presence/#comments

Sigh.....

mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:19 a.m.

I would say partial cost of the oil and partial oil company profits. If you take it off the commodities market, and you pay actual costs, things just might change.

hawkeye — July 3, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:16 a.m

In all fairness I only postulated that current solar charging was comparable to a middle school science project. Unlike solar, EV technology is making great advances. There still some downsides like the fixed maintenance cost in battery replacement, however I am sure that these will be overcome soon.

frobert — July 3, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil, I don't know about you, but I've seen many more people utilizing their feet rather than the gasoline pump lately. As long as the economic times are still struggling in deep water (brought on by the irrational mindset of our governing leaders globally as well as the need for greed by mega corporations) and what might happen come August 2nd, yes...we are being forced out of our vehicles and many will not succumb to the pressures of BRT or LRT by our government. Every day I see more bicyclists and pedestrians on the road than I've ever witnessed in years past here in Vancouver or for that matter in Portland. That was the reason for my "Flintstones" comment.

And yes...

Yabba dabba doooooooooo!!!!!

goldenoldie — July 3, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, Thanks for the considered reply. It is refreshing to discuss ideas instead of passing blame.

I am pretty much with you (surprising isn't it?) on 2 out of 3 of your thoughts. Yes, let's do a flat tax (or switch over to a National Sales tax, which would do away with the IRS almost entirely, freeing those workers up for jobs that contribute to our gdp). Second, Yes, let's cut way back on the money we give other countries (some of which we borrow from!).

Third, I can't go along with regulating the price of oil. That hasn't worked very well in the past. Although I understand why you would want to do it. How about this?.... It wouldn't hardly matter what the price of oil was IF we were were producing our OWN, instead of sending HEAPS of money overseas to our "friends" If the $700B we pay for imported oil went to our own companies here, much of the money would be spent here, feeding OUR economy.

Fourth, affordable energy drives nations. We need to develop our own domestic electricity supplies. Right now the only source that can create enough electricity afford-ably is Nuclear. Even though there have been some mishaps with Nuclear energy, we have to invest in safe, efficient designs. If we do, electric cars will become viable. And we can fuel industry for the future.

It gives me hope when two people of vastly different political persuasions can agree on at least some of the issues. Thanks

tax_payer — July 3, 2011 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 3, 2011 at 10:12 a.m.

I find it amusing that you use a source called logicalscience, and they deny all logic. All of the carbon locked up in oil started in the atmosphere, prior to the dying off of the jungles that created the oil and coal reserves most of the planet was covered with foliage. They also make the false assumption that melting of the icecaps would reduce the amount of available ground water. Taking care of our planet and implementing alternative energy source is a good thing, but hysteria and politics does not make sound science.

frobert — July 3, 2011 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I would say partial cost of the oil and partial oil company profits. If you take it off the commodities market, and you pay actual costs, things just might change."

Today, speculators bidding on futures contracts set the price of oil on the world market. They hedge these bets based on their best guesses at future market conditions-OPEC production quotas, possibilities of disruption in supplies, demand, etc.

Who or what would replace them? OPEC? Individual companies or the governments of producing countries? Would we, as consumers fare better? I doubt it. I see no way any elected official will step forward to take on the stranglehold big oil still would have.

The only thing I see to limit gas prices is the possibility of it becoming so expensive alternative fuels/power will replace it. But until oil becomes so scarce that the price really skyrockets, that probably won't happen. Like all situations of this magnitude, everyone, including us consumers, would prefer to kick the can a few years down the road rather than buck up and git 'er done. I remember some guy named Carter talking this line after the oil embargo disrupted the American economy long ago, and we're still kicking that damned can.

mrd — July 3, 2011 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How about we do it like everything else. If you are selling the oil, you set the price. You don't like the price, don't buy it.

hawkeye — July 3, 2011 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY TO ALL**

may we all celebrate God's 200+ year old gift to the world while, in our religious, agnostic, atheistic, muslim etc etc etc way give the universe a 'thank you' for all we have and all we enjoy.

DeeLittle — July 3, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"How about we do it like everything else. If you are selling the oil, you set the price. You don't like the price, don't buy it."

That attitude would work except it's a commodity that MUST be bought. The US-and it's infrastrucute, political landscape, hell, everything, is based on cheap oil-and that luxury no longer exists.

The world market thru oil futures sets the price of oil and gasoline these days, not us. The US is no longer in that position. As oil is dumped into global pricing, the US has no real control over pricing. Even if the US was a net exporter of oil-a scenario we'll never see, our domestically produced oil would fetch global market prices, and would not be sold in this country for less than the going global rate. Exxon, for example, simply won't sell gas cheaper produced from oil in the US than it can do so elsewhere.In other words, US oil production will never affect gasoline prices.

mrd — July 3, 2011 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wish the same to you as well, DeeLittle. Happy Independence Day to you and to everyone else.

To all...never take your freedom for granted.

goldenoldie — July 4, 2011 at 4:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — July 3, 2011 at 11:35 p.m

You don't seem to like my answers but I don't see any coming from you.

hawkeye — July 4, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**THE CODFATHER.**

*A dramatic account of life inside an organized crime family. Screenplay by KN Dalai, based on his book: Goidfellas.*

*The cast includes: Don Basil “the Codfather” Cannoli; patriarch of the family. Toughasnails; the family lawyer, ruffian and the Codfather’s right hand man. Don Bart Zucchini, head of a rival crime family.*

*The setting: Don Basil is in his office discussing the family business with Toughasnails.*

The story begins:

Don Basil: Aa haa eh aaa aaahaaa aahehhs ahenn aahhhaaa eenohhooenns ehhh haa see ahhinn?

Toughasnails: What?

Don Basil: Aa haa eh aaa aaahaaa aahehhs ahenn aahhhaaa eenohhooenns ehhh haa see ahhinn?

Toughasnails: Codfather…have you been stuffing Kleenex in your mouth again?

Don Basil: Oo I ahgaat. Ahem! Ahem! Haach! Ahaacht!! There, that’s better. I said… So how is our garbage worker’s union contract negotiations with the city coming?

Toughasnails: Not goid.

Don Basil: How come?

Toughasnails: The mayor wants a twenty persoint kickback.

Don Basil: Uh-oh. I thought so.

Toughasnails: Those Soicialists want to get their hands on everything.

Don Basil: The mayor’s a Capitalist.

Toughasnails: Those Capitalists want to get their hands on everything.

Don Basil: I’ll take care of it.

Toughasnails: Whaddaya gonna do?

Don Basil: I’m gonna make him a refuse he can’t refuse.

Toughasnails: Whaddaya want me ta do?

Don Basil: Tell our people to drive over to his place tonight, and dump all their garbage in his front yard.

Toughasnails: Is that all?

Don Basil: No. After that, tell them to surround his house, so he can’t escape. Then have them serenade him with tunes from Time-Life’s greatest disco hits of the 70’s.

Toughasnails: Ouch! That’s worse than fingernails scratching a blackboard!

Don Basil: I forgot. Tell them to bring along a blackboard.

kn_dalai — July 4, 2011 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Toughasnails: O.K.

Don Basil: O.K. So what’s going on with the family Codfather’s Cod Liver Oil business.

Toughasnails: It’s not goid. Sales are down fifteen persoint. That darned Don Bart Zoicchini has started flooding the market with some cheap Mexican Cod liver oil import.

Don Basil. Looks like the egg thing isn’t working any more.

Thoughasnails: Huh?

Don Basil: I’ve been having Cool Hand Luca egg Bart Zucchini’s place for years. It’s always kept him in line. I guess he’s finally starting to get some nerve.

*There’s a knock at the door. Its Federal Express.*

Don Basil: Commmme EEE-inn.

*Toughasnails opens the package which contains a lobster surrounded by 50 hard boiled eggs.*

Toughasnails: What’s this?

Don Basil: It’s a message from Bart Zucchini. It means Cool Hand Luca swims with the lobsters.

Toughasnails: I didn’t know Cool Hand Luca could swim.

Don Basil: He can’t.

Toughasnails: Uh-oh.

Don Basil: That’s why he always wears an inflatable life boat under his shirt. You didn’t really think he was that fat did you?

Toughasnails: Uhhh…

Don Basil: This Bart Zucchini business is starting to bother me.

Toughasnails: Does youse wants me to take a couple of boys and goes over and fry him?

Don Basil: No. I’ll wait. Never forget Toughasnails…revenge is a dish best served with Cod.

Toughasnails: Okay.

kn_dalai — July 4, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Don Basil: Now, I want you to go talk to that Hollywood big cheese about getting my cousin Vinnie the starring role he wants in that new movie.

*Toughasnails goes to see Monterey Jack Moldz and asks him to put Vinnie in Moldz pictures new movie.*

Toughasnails: Mr. Cannoli never asks a second time, when he’s been refused the first. Understoid?

Monterey Jack Moldz: YOU don’t understoid! Vinnie Cannoli never gets that part! He’s perfect for it! It would make him a big star! But he ain’t no goid. I don’t like him. He spends all his money on Brylcreem.

Toughasnails: Oh.

Monterey Jack: And I aint no Zoicchini! Yeah… I hoid that story. I don’t care how many goombaugh Cool Hand Luca’s egg my house!

*Monterey Jack is stunned when Toughasnails turns around and leaves without even saying goodbye.*

Don Basil: Toughasnails, here’s what I want you to do…

*Early the next morning, as Monterey Jack is waking up, he slowly begins to feel that something is wrong. Then all of a sudden he realizes what it is.*

Monterey Jack: **AHHH! AHHH! AHHH!** WHAT’S THIS? WHAT IS THIS? IT’S… A SLIMY COD! AND IT’S GOT SLIME ALL OVER THE SHEETS!! IT’S STILL MOVING!!! **AHHH! AHHH! AHHH!**

*That afternoon, there’s a knock at Don Basil’s door.*

Don Basil: Whoooo’s Theyeeere?

Man at the door: Itttttts the FTD dellliiivery Mannnn.

Don Basil: What’s this?

Toughasnails: It’s from your cousin Vinnie, starring in that new moivie.

Don Basil: What’s it called?

Toughasnails: Frankie and Johnny.

Don Basil: What part does Vinnie play?

Toughasnails: He plays them boith.

kn_dalai — July 4, 2011 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Later that night, Don Basil finds toughasnails sitting alone and close to tears.*

Don Basil: What’s wrong?

Toughasnails: They shot Sinny on the causeway. He’s red.

Don Basil: What happened?

Toughasnails: They snapped his picture at the toll booith. Then they used Photoshop to make him look like a …here…see for yourself.

*Thoughasnails hands Don Basil a picture of a giant lobster with the face of Sinny. Don Basil is horrified.*

Toughasnails: It’s all over the internet now.

Don Basil: I don’t want his mother to see him like this. Burn this picture. Then close his Facebook, Twitter and Myspace accounts.

Toughasnails: Okay.

Don Basil: It’s that darned Zucchini that did this. He’s really steamed me this time. Its time to deal with him. Arrange a meeting with him. Then…

*Toughasnails meets Don Bart Zucchini at Lou’s Restaurant in Joisey City. Zucchini has the lobster while Toughasnails has the baked Cod topped with Hollandaise sauce and sprinkled with sliced almonds.*

Zucchini: Toughasnails, how’s your baked Cod topped with the Hollandaise sauce and sprinkled with da sliced almonds?

Toughasnails: It’s goid. How’s your loibster?

Zucchini: ITS RED! HAAAHAHAHA!

*Suddenly, Toughasnails reaches into his pocket, whips out a Nalley’s home style dill pickle and shoves it in Zucchini’s face.*

Zucchini: **AHHH! AHHH! AHHH!**

*Don Bart Zucchini runs out the front door in sheer terror.*

*Voice over: Through an informant, Don Basil had learned that the Zucchini’s are deathly afraid of pickles. A pickle to a Zucchini is like a cross is to Dracula. His secret discovered, Don Bart Zucchini left town, never to be hoid from again.*

The End

kn_dalai — July 4, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai, am I correct in assuming you like the Godfather Saga?

and "Aa haa eh aaa aaahaaa aahehhs ahenn aahhhaaa eenohhooenns ehhh haa see ahhinn?" translated to this "I said… So how is our garbage worker’s union contract negotiations with the city coming?"

Just where do you come up with these tales, kn_dalai????

You've got me smilin' just trying to follow the story line. A family afraid of pickles??? You know...what is really bothering me is...I could almost picture your "saga" lololol. Maybe as a youngster, Don Bart Zucchini was squashed inside a pickle barrel.

goldenoldie — July 4, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 3, 2011 at 11:05 a.m.

Here are sources that show breakdowns of where our $3.70 a gal goes.

You haven't shown a viable way to cut out the amount you proposed.

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2011 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 3, 2011 at 12:58 p.m.

Lots of noise, but I notice you couldn't come up with an actual source that supports your claims.

The site's science is sound. Your's however is classic facepalm.

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Every day I see more bicyclists and pedestrians on the road than I've ever witnessed in years past here in Vancouver or for that matter in Portland. That was the reason for my "Flintstones" comment.*

Well, then so would be bringing up America's golden age, when roads were being built for bicycles, cities had small neighborhoods that promoted local (v. driving to a mall) shopping, and we had an active and productive manufacturing base.

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2011 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

It would probably help to be quite familiar with the Godfather movie.

Here’s some trivia:

- Marlon Brando stuffed Kleenex in his mouth to play his role as the Godfather. It puffed out his cheeks.
- The role of Johnny Fontane, in the book and the movie, was often thought to be patterned after the real life Frank Sinatra. Hence: Frankie and Johnny. It was rumored that Sinatra’s Mafia friends pressured Harry Cohn, the head of Columbia Studios (died in 1958), and movie director Fred Zinnemann, to give Sinatra the role of Maggio, in From Here to Eternity. Like Johnny Fontane, Sinatra was a “crooner” and his career was washed up at the time. Zinnemann, and others denied that they had ever been pressured. “There were no horses’ heads involved…” said Zinnemann.
- Oh, and cucumbers and zucchinis are both members of the gourd family, Cucurbitaceae. Being the gardener that you are, you probably know that. But zucchinis are squashes while cucumbers are not. “…squashed inside a pickle barrel.” Good one Goldie.

kn_dalai — July 4, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So true, Basil...so very true.

Kn_dalai, it was really Kleenex??? I'd think cotton balls. At least they wouldn't dissolve in his mouth. YUCK! And yes, my little comment was a gardener's joke...lame as it was, lol. I'm somewhat famliiar with the Godfather saga...have watched it a couple of times in the past, hence my recognition of your story. Yours of course reminded me of Robin Hood, Men in Tights when I read it, lolol.

goldenoldie — July 5, 2011 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2011 at 5:36 p.m

Are you maintaining that carbon in fossil fuels comes from somewhere else?

frobert — July 5, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 5, 2011 at 10:29 a.m.

Your first conjecture ( co2 and plant growth) was demonstrably false. Your second is so oversimplistic that there really isn't much point in arguing it short of saying you really need to be reading a basic textbook on climate science. Or try this: http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml

And your attempts are both denier talking points more designed to obfuscate a discussion than prove a point. Also notable is that you can't bring a single piece of support for your conjectures.

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A comment to Hawkeye on http://www.dailyinsider.info . Tony Bacon used to run that public until about a year ago when passed on. I believe now his family or his wife is running the show with now.

The publication has been around a number of years and Tony used to be well regarded amongst many people here in Vancouver. He also used to be on many local boards including the SWMC for some time and others. He was also noted on CVTV for asking questions of local officials with former publisher Marvin Case (until he sold his newspaper to another local newspaper family up north?)

But the site is still up and has been recently redesigned with a new template, logo and other nice material.

toomuch — July 5, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn, thank you for the wonderful read. :)

Now on to the next reference open forum thread. Its now open and ready for more commentary!

toomuch — July 5, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 1:53 p.m.

Your politically motivated web site, cites no reliable scientific study or data. Their claim that increased co2 will reduce agricultural yield, is so far outside on known science that I need quote no source. I am quoting universally accepted scientific fact, remember what your favorite Sagan quote.

frobert — July 5, 2011 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 5, 2011 at 3:16 p.m.

Actually, the LogicalScience site links to the research.

And the WAPO site is discussing a report, linked to, that is based on the research they used to support the finding of the study.

And, if you could show how either LogicalScience or WAPO is a "politically motivated web site" that would help us in understanding your thinking.

So, my sources do show their 'extraordinary evidence' and on the other hand we have your unsupported claim that you are "quoting universally accepted scientific fact, "

Sigh....

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 4:09 p.m

Even the study cited admitted that their findings were outside of accepted science. That coupled with the extreme conditions of the experiments would cause a reasonable person to conclude that their results are questionable.

frobert — July 5, 2011 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 5, 2011 at 4:14 p.m.

?????????????????

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 4:20 p.m

Four of the 9 sources for the article you linked where by Ainsworth EA, Rogers, I suggest you actually read the papers and not rely on political interpretations of such. They also have plenty of pictures of FACE experiments, that have not concluded or released findings.

frobert — July 5, 2011 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 5, 2011 at 5:49 p.m.

Gee, I'm not terribly sure you aren't talking, again, through your hat....

The first paper discusses FACE findings, a bit hard to do if the findings (by the author) weren't "released".

You still haven't provided a source for your "..outside of accepted science" and given your previous inability to cite sources supporting your claims, I'm dubious at best.

Actually, the LogicalScience site links to the research.

And the WAPO site is discussing a report, linked to, that is based on the research they used to support the finding of the study.

And, if you could show how either LogicalScience or WAPO is a "politically motivated web site" that would help us in understanding your thinking.

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2011 at 6:57 p.m.

Neither WAPO or LogicalScience is a scholarly journal, they are popular hype, tens of thousands of scholarly papers conclude that increase of co2 produces increased yield. The papers vary in so far as how much increased yield. Do a simple google search, factor out the sites that are looking for a means to an end (both sides of the climate change issue) and you will find thousands of articles that prove my point and none to prove yours. It is a simple and scientifically proven fact that if you want to increase yield you enrich the co2. Logicalscience in their mission statement are dedicated to disproving the climate change deniers, how is that objective? NASA has even concluded a significant increase in yield with doubling the ppm of co2. Debating the amount the increase in yield counters the increase in temperature would be a valid argument, denying known laws of science is not.

frobert — July 5, 2011 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"tens of thousands of scholarly papers conclude that increase of co2 produces increased yield"

As I have pointed out before, the research I pointed to is valid and accurate. They are looking at FACE, not lab experiments (which is what you are attempting to use as a false equivalency)

Also, there is that pesky issue of documentation of how the increased temps are reducing output. Increased temps due to the increased CO2, As the studies show, the 'increased co2' does not offset the effects the temps are having.

True enough that Logical Science nor the WaPo are journals. However, they are both citing solid science.

Something you are not doing.

mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


True enough that Logical Science nor the WaPo are journals. However, they are both citing solid science.

SB not scientific journals.....

However, claiming either are 'political' with some specific political agenda implied is also quite a stretch.

LS focuses on the science of climate research. Show us where that is political.

WaPo covers politics. And you'll notice they have editorial / opinion pieces from both sides of the aisle.

mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 7:55 a.m.

Any media outlet or a web site dedicated to proving a certain point is political. The one FACE experiment that is showing that increased co2 reduces yield, is at this point nothing more than an interesting anomaly. To indicate that a single experiment should supersede over a hundred years of research is a false equivalency.

frobert — July 6, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal



"Any media outlet or a web site dedicated to proving a certain point is political."

Except the LS site isn't discussing politics; they are showing, just like Joe Romm, Andy Revkin, realclimate, grist, et al, where the science is in terms of the ongoing research.

Part of science is to be sceptical. You'll notice there isn't one FACE experiment, but several in different locations and other variables. And, as a group, they point to "These experiments show a much smaller boost to production than chamber experiments. Woody plants such as trees and cotton still showed a significant increase in biomass production. However, crop plants such as grains showed a much lower boost in production." In otherwords, they, as a group, do show plant production raises in increased CO2.

However, the real world (FACE) also shows that that raise is much smaller than lab (chambered) experiments.

Basically, FACE replicates the lab experiment with a new variable of being unenclosed - what is happening outside a chamber effecting the outcome.

And the second study, the one cited by WaPo, shows that those outside effects - essentially ACC - is reducing output.

Now, you claim " thousands of articles that prove my point "

And I really don't know but that your point seems to be; that we should use the basic elementary school science project showing co2 is necessary for plants as a basis for ignoring ACC and its effects? That seems the only reason you would have posited your orig question: "Wouldn't an increase in co2 equal an increase in food production? (frobert — July 3, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.)"

The only people I consistently see claiming ACC is political are the deniers.

mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 11:38 a.m.

It looks like you are now saying that increasing co2 does increase yield. Therefore you are amending your unqualified no with a yes, but.

The crop yield from the United States has consistently increased and the amount of used cropland has decreased. ACC is in no way shape or form reducing output, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Climate change is something that should be tracked, however we should stick to the reasonable consequences of it, and not try to make up more problems with junk science.

frobert — July 6, 2011 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — July 6, 2011 at 6:31 p.m.

Review your orig. question: ": "Wouldn't an increase in co2 equal an increase in food production? (frobert — July 3, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.)"

And at least one of the studies discusses the 'increased yields' of the mid-west US.

So, again, the 'junk science' is in your court; as indicated by the fact you haven't referenced anything to prove your contentions.

mr_basil_seal — July 6, 2011 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai! Another classic! Great read with a script tighter than a sturgeon in newsprint. Hopefully after November 2012 we won't have a Gopfather! Good to see you...in the avatarian 20/20 realm.

nailingit — July 8, 2011 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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