Open Forum Nov. 7-13



Most read stories on last week:

No. 1) Buyer sought for Tumtum Mountain

No. 2) Rafting guide makes first river trip after Condit Dam breaching

No. 3) Rash of accidents on county highways keep troopers busy

No. 4) Occupy Portland: Man pushes police sergeant into moving TriMet bus; minor injuries

No. 5) Week 10 high school football scores

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I don't know if I have ever been the first to post. A lot of responsibility. Obligatory good mornings?

Good Morning.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

:)) Great point Allen. At least we are not pushing up dirt!

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tip 'o mornin to ye lads

Looks like the sun just might come out and smile on us today.

ELISI — November 7, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi y'all Good Monday, Pacific Standard time morning.

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

""Convinced that neither the state nor the federal government was going to protect them, Thompson and her family left Channahon three years ago and now live 20 miles away. "We took a $40,000-plus hit on our home just to get the heck out of there," Thompson said."" (That good ol' Libertarian message of acting out self-reliance?)

""The Clean Air Act delegated enforcement duties to the states, where shrinking budgets have led to less oversight."" (That seems to be working)

""Now, as the EPA tries to address the last major sources of hazardous air pollution -- coal-fired power plants, industrial boilers, incinerators and cement plants -- it's encountering headwinds in Congress, mainly in the Republican-dominated House."" (The house is a good example of toxic waste that needs to be cleaned up next year!)

This is a lengthy article compared to most, but guaranteed worth your time.

Democrats still have a majored Senate and the presidency the last time I checked. Just one more booted middle class issue that can leave an imprint on the necks of these so-called 'fiscally minded" politicians in 2012. Does anyone really believe it's best the states regulate themselves? Obama's been lax in this department, and it's killing people.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mornin' all!

Yeah, the drug articles in today's paper has dragged me from my cave. First we have the new opiate dispensing rules, then the guy with near 300 pot plants that got popped.

Now, don't misunderstnd, the dude with the plants was violating the law, no question. The guy with the plants is most likely a bottom tier member of an organized crime outfit... pretty sure. If it weren't for the current draconian cannabis laws people wouldn't be turning homes into green houses. Fact.

The law is the issue. Not organized crime outfits growing cannabis for huge profits. As long as cannabis is a schedule I drug... well, there will be more "house" busts.

Opiate overdoses appears to be a problem in Washington State. The answer, it seems, is to limit access to opiate pain relievers. We chronic pain sufferers sure are happy our doctors will be required to jump through MORE hoops before they write that script!

How am I going to tie these two articles together, you might be asking yourself.

I've been taking Vicodin daily for over ten years now. My daily (average) dose used to be 1,500 mg. That's nowhere near the max. of 4,000 mg. You'd think by this time I'd be "ramping up," eh?


My current average is 1,000 mg. How the heck could my dosage drop? My condition is degenerative. It hasn't gotten better. Actually, things are worse than 10 years ago. So, how does that work?

Isn't it time the DEA starts studying the science?

Have a good week, all.

Drift — November 7, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 8:48 a.m

Huh, read your article and found that I worked in one of those factories for 25 years. That list is a little misleading though. We had EPA people there every year, testing and probing all kinds of areas, sniffing the air and regulating everything. Apparently they don't do that good of a job everywhere if other states are having problems. Maybe Federal regulation needs to be ramped up a little.

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't think the Keystone pipleline would present much of a problem. I sure there will be leaks, but considering the amount of pipelines in existence now, it'd be no big deal. There haven't been any major mis-steps on the Alaskan pipeline, and it crosses areas much more difficult to construct and maintain. Compared to that, this pipeline should be a piece of cake. We're not going to be free of oil anytime soon, so might as well go for it.

I assume the refinery capacity exists, otherwise someone is going to look real stupid. Might as well do it here and get the jobs. From what I see in North Dakota, the pay is good-damn good. Environmental groups will scream-nothing new there-and point out all the risks, many blown out of proportion.

Maybe Congress can actually grow one and dare tax this potential windfall, but I doubt it.

mrd — November 7, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 9:40-...Adhered to Fed regulations was my takeaway also hawkeye. That and thinking about state governments welfare and giveaway incentives they spend to lure companies to their states. The taxpayer foots the bill to ensure the companies profitability, while infra-structure, education, medical services, etc. take a hit in the local community they are housed in.

To top it off we have loud mouth conservatives campaigning against their communities basic services in order to increase their bottom line. Although not agreeing in principle, I understand some of the reasons (to include corporate greed) corporations fight against tax proposals and regulations. But when politically conscience conservatives take it on themselves to shout down services to education, medical services, the elderly, handicapped, in the very community that they profit from, while preaching the Gospel of Jesus with the same stench of breath, well, I find it less than humorous! :)) Can't even raise soda & candy a fraction! Sometimes all this, so corporate offices can monitor their workforce in China! :)) :((

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just read where US banks have $400B in credit default swaps with European banks that hold Italian bonds. Thanks to our puppets in DC, the government must look the other way as the banks are not required to disclose their holdings in credit default swaps. If Italy goes the way of Greece-no reason to assume otherwise-US banks, the big boys, will take a huge hit. Another bailout would be political suicide, so what's DC gonna do? The puppets must serve their rich masters in order to feed at the trough of campaign funding.

Italy will not only go the way of Greece, it will go quicker and harder. Italian bonds are taking a huge hit in the markets, forcing Italy to pay 7%. Germany pays 0.3%. That will bust them in a hurry. With over $2T in outstanding debt, this one's gonna hurt big time. Italy is the 3rd most indebted country behind the US and Japan.

For 30 years, our inept leaders have been kicking the can down the road and we're outta road. Federal and state government spending has led the US out of every recession, but that is not happening this time. The debt hawks won't hear of it, and they might be right. I'm afraid this could get ugly soon, and it isn't real pretty even now.

The unbridled greed of major banks has caused them take risks that threaten us all. If all this had been investor's money, that'd be OK. If you want to stick your money in these concocted derivates, knock yourself out. But these banks have gone way beyond that. It's everyone's money they've been gambling with allowing them to have little skin in the game. If you think (and I'm sure they do) that they were, in fact, too big to fail, what are they now after the buyouts, mergers, and take-overs after the intial crash? Way too big to fail? We'll see. But if they go down, they're taking us all with them.

mrd — November 7, 2011 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- Good to see you post. Big brother knows no bounds. Big brother needs to change their way of thinking, and quit viewing life through the lens of contributions and profitability. Too many people make too much money from restricting the rights of too many people.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — November 7, 2011 at 9:33 a.m

Allen, I looked for the article you mentioned but I don't see it. Can you get me a link?

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen @ 9:59...Yep! They want to defund everything from the EPA to the FDA to the FAA to FEMA and back. They cast votes based on campaign contributions and a skewed sense of patriotism, rather than the desires and best interests of the people who put them in office. 2012 will be an eerie reverse of 2010.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Matt !!!!!

as far as "captcha" goes, how do I find the symbol for "pi" on my keyboard?

Damn this is annoying!

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail- I do believe I have a LTTE brewing. It's been quite sometime since my last. I always have such a hard time keeping it below 200 words. Heh!

Drift — November 7, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh-Oh, Herman's in trouble again.....

A fourth woman has accused Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain of sexual harassment--this time in public. Sharon Bialek told reporters in a press conference Monday that Cain groped her and exhibited "sexually inappropriate" behavior toward her when he was head of the National Restaurant Association.

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not buying the Keystone pipleline crap at all?? There has been plenty of problems with the current pipelines that are in existence in the States now. WA alone has lost several lives and leaks are numerous. Why would we need a pipeline from Canada to TX when there are plenty of wells there and they can't keep up at the refineries as it is? There is a group at Yahoo if folks are interested in pipeline stuff.

karma — November 7, 2011 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal would be nice if my fb posts weren't immediately deleted....

oh well....

DeeLittle — November 7, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, would you e-mail me a link to one of the stories where your comment isn't appearing? I can't speak for anyone else, but I definitely haven't deleted anything of yours.

My e-mail is


Matt Wastradowski — November 7, 2011 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye, pi? For real? I've never seen a symbol that isn't on my keyboard. Crazy.

If you're having trouble, click the refresh button in the box to get a new CAPTCHA string.


Matt Wastradowski — November 7, 2011 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sportyjames — November 7, 2011 at 1:48 p.m

Hey squisheyjammies, you better get them to come by your house. Pi has a squiggle on the top and the legs are curved as well, not straight like you made. I wonder if I could have just written 3.1415?

Why do you have to be such a jerk, anyway?

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh for Pete's sake. Regarding Herman Cain...Okay!!! He's a dirty old man! Not like other politicians haven't done the same. Heck, even one who became president still swears today he didn't have sexual relations with Monica while being married to Hillary, yet he remained president. And JFK??? He was no angel either. Oh, I could go down the list of political hopefuls who have been caught but are still going on today. So if you believe his actions make him unworthy of running for president, then just don't vote for him. Quite frankly, I'm unimpressed with the guy and find the mudslinging to be irritating. I wish the news would move on and start focusing on issues rather than behaviorisms. Honestly...I'd doubt if there's any presidential hopeful that didn't have any skeletons in their closets.

Regarding "Pi..." Nope, don't have it on my keyboard either. I've also seen other symbols, foreign text, clouded letters which are illegible and script. Love those three dots in a triangular shape or better yet - Upside down letters. Now figure how to type THAT ONE!!! Like Matt says though...I just click on refresh and a new one comes up. Sometimes I have to refresh it a few times before one is useable.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh Oh!!!!

It appears David Madore's comments were removed from Lou's Press Talk Column. Must be something he said???

goldenoldie — November 7, 2011 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO, yea, it appears he was a dirty old man. And in the past, we have had some Presidents that have done some questionable things. I guess my measure is, he had to know this was going to come up and still decided to run. Either he doesn't think it's a big deal (and in that case he could be really wrong for the job) or he he's just ignorant (or arrogant) enough to think what he did was OK. Either way, just because others have been caught being inappropriate, doesn't mean it's OK now. If he had some really great ideas, maybe he could get a pass but as far as I can see, he doesn't deserve any extra credit. I think he's a jerk and should drop out.

hawkeye — November 7, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I'm not voting for him, Hawkeye. Speaking about the subject of sexual harassment, I believe the decision in any court case would be through the interpretation of the judge if it were based on one word against another with no evidence to back either side. What gets me is when I'm watching anything to do with coverage of the presidential speeches. Some may consider the hug and kiss on the cheek of each woman as a sexual harassment, but it's done each and every time.

All I know is I'm glad I'm not the one wearing the black robe on the bench in charge of any court proceedings when it comes to this subject.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2011 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""The organizations argue that a variety of potential problems await the proposed $7 billion pipeline, which would deliver a heavy form of crude oil extracted from a thick mixture of sand, clay and bitumen in Alberta, Canada, to refineries on the Texas Gulf Coast. These problems include: polluting drinking water supplies of indigenous populations surrounding the oil patch; voluminous greenhouse gas emissions associated with processing its hydrocarbons; and potential for leaks and spills along the pipeline's proposed 1,700-mile route through the American heartland -- particularly in ecologically sensitive areas like the vast Ogallala aquifer.""

""A previous leg of TransCanada's Keystone pipeline network, which links Canada's oil sands to the American Midwest and which went into operation in June of 2010, suffered more than a dozen leaks in its first year of operation.""

And a month later...

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- ""The U.S. State Department’s inspector general will review the agency’s handling of TransCanada Corp.’s proposed Keystone XL oil pipeline, agreeing to a request from Congress.""

""A memo from the inspector general’s office, released today by Senator Bernie Sanders, a Vermont independent, said the watchdog was “initiating a special review” of the environmental study and a pending determination of whether the $7 billion pipeline is in the national interest.""

Sometimes voicing concern can help. Let's pay attention to the politicians that are doing some good. Remember next year.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""The personhood initiative is so legally problematic that there are already people across the nation who are "lined up to challenge it," because it violates a number of Supreme Court precedents, said Alexandre.""

They claim to be the party of individual choice trumping personal freedoms, while wrapping themselves in the flag waving mantra of "small government". They defend the constitution, until they disagree with it.

Let's also pay attention to the ones that are doing bad. Remember next year.

nailingit — November 7, 2011 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well I see the two rams have decided not to knock horns any more. Lou has graciously allowed Madore back to the C...and Madore has graciously accepted. See's not hard to show a little civility even if it did take an exchange of tough talk in order to come to terms.


...if our political leaders would only grasp onto that concept.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2011 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Dee, would you e-mail me a link to one of the stories where your comment isn't appearing?*

i posted in the pain story...a reply to a post that talked about opiate addiction. i take opiates, titer my own dose using what pills i've been prescribed, and i know why patients are so anxious to get refills in full and on time: if they don't the doctor assumes the full amt isn't needed, and reduces/limits the medication. when the titer works, it's great, no druggie feeling. but when the pain's running wild, we need the FULL DOSE and it simply may not be there for us.

that's the gist of what i said. disappeared in 5 minutes. others i've written weren't totally 'PC friendly' and, knowing this paper, their disappearance wasn't exactly a surprise.

DeeLittle — November 7, 2011 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think the state has gone far beyond their authority regarding all prescriptions. Beginning next year the state database for all schedule II through schedule V medications goes into effect. Not only does this violate HIPAA but also the 4th Amendment. Law enforcement will be able to look at the database anytime they want without obtaining a search warrant. This database can be subcontracted to a third party. I see a great opportunity for abuse, possibly blackmail.

Before I had back surgery 16 years ago I could no longer walk. The sciatica pain was excruciating. I had to take opiates like candy just to take the edge off the pain. We now have people in Olympia telling doctors how much medication their patients need. I think your doctor has a better feel for your needs than they do.

I would prefer that anyone over 21 be able to self prescribe over the counter. We allow for the sale of alcohol, a drug that kills far more than any other. Why should someone have to go to the doctor when they know what they need? I hope you are able to get the relief you need.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 7, 2011 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen- I just popped in for a quick minute before I pull the blankets over my virus infested body (cough, cough, snort, sneeze). 'Scuse, me. I been sick...

The last two sentences in your 8:33 p.m. post confuse me.

Cannabis is NOT legal.
Not one single U.N. type country has legalized cannabis. Nope, not Holland, not Portugal, nary a single one. It would be a violation of "The Agreement."

In states with medicinal cannabis laws, the law only gives an individual who has dotted the "I"s and crossed their "T"s an affirmative defense in the event of arrest and prosecution.

The DEA appears to be steadfast in their classification of cannabis as a schedule I drug.

There are times I almost find that reassuring. I've been screwing around with different cannabis formulations for several years now. I do believe I've found a combination that works quite well.

I'd hate to have Squibb (et al) come along and mess that up.

Self medicating, indeed. I hope to be free of opiates in the next couple of years.

Your mileage may vary... Closed track with a professional driver... Don't try this at home, kids...

Drift — November 7, 2011 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i can do very well with OTC .... usually. but when i need the pills,
*I NEED THE PILLS.* i usually go thru a full rx in about 4-5 weeks. *if i wait past 4 weeks* (the usual refill date) because i have some pills left, my total allowable amount is reduced. it's happened twice, the last time just last month.

i'm beginning to wonder if that poster from one of my old schools (LA Valley College) isn't on to something; heroin is available anywhere.

**just kidding**, oh great columbian censor.

DeeLittle — November 7, 2011 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually Dee...

Growing opium poppies is legal. Milk them, and a person could very well find themselves in the slammer though *shrug*.

That's too bad. If I could milk poppies the only pharmaceutical I'd be reliant on would be for the blood pressure.

Follow the money?

Drift — November 7, 2011 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


posts to lou's and laird's columns are frequently removed. i've also had a post removed that had the word "morals" in it (that was concerning the transvestite teacher).

DeeLittle — November 7, 2011 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""Bill Daley, White House chief of staff, to hand off some responsibilities""

""Daley’s brisk corporate style has soured some White House staffers who think he’s pinching Obama’s access to outside opinions at a time when the administration needs fresh insights.""

Read more:

An early Christmas gift? Obama recognizing his corporate closed door inner circle needs some air? Let's hope so. Been wanting this for awhile. Hopefully the progressive voice of government will bend Obama's ear a bit more.

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — November 7, 2011 at 8:33 p.m.

Years ago I might've had a slightly different opinion. If you will follow my reasoning I don't think I have a conflict. I am for 90% less government, It hurts us more than helps. Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit Of Happiness. Persuit not guarantee. Family should help take care of their own. If someone wants to scramble their brain, let them do it but don't require the rest of us to take care of them. Employers should legally able to protect themselves from employess that are stoned. If you give drugs to minors you should be executed.

Life, this is YOUR conflict, not mine. I believe life begins at conception and it is precious. The government should protect that life. How that life came to be is irrelevant to me, it is not our call to end it. Now the can of worms is open.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

""I can't imagine anyone who is truly pro-life not supporting or acknowledging the fact that the baby begins at conception, deserves life, has done nothing to deserve death, she told CNN.
"In rape and incest, the life that has been created during that process has done nothing to deserve death. The mother is a victim and there's no reason to make a victim a murderer," she said.""

To take a morning after pill, after a rape could be considered murder. Many methods of birth control could be considered murder.

We need to wake up! No party wants to limit personal freedom as much as the GOP.

When will they start caring about kids after they are born? It doesn't seem to be part of their platform. Unless you consider destroying the Department of Education, forcing the dumbing down of "home schooled children" on a massive incompetent scale. Speaking of which, the President is speaking on education right now...

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 8:28 a.m

So if that passes and she is pregnant at the end of the year, can they take the unborn child as a deduction on their taxes? And then if she has a miscarriage after the taxes are filed, can they be charged for lying on their taxes?

There is no such thing as a stupid question, if you can think of it, it can happen. Even in Mississippi.

hawkeye — November 8, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- In the case of miscarriage, the burden of proof would be on the mother/doctor to prove the baby was actually miscarried, to avoid a possible charge of murder/manslaughter/facilitating.

Taxes would be a curious issue. I'm sure the fringe of America who wants this, will reward those who produce children with huge tax credits/incentives.

Of course we are dealing with patriotic 'small government" people ;)

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"the fringe of America who [[wants]] this..." Sorry for the Fat Albert impression :))

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wing- I -do- find your 7:45 a.m. post conflicting.

Understand, I haven't an opinion on abortion. I am not a woman nor a man that will be impregnating one at any time in the future. Also, know that I'm not a proponent of juvenile drug abuse.

With that being said, err, or written;

So you say if a young girl is raped, and impregnated by, a close family member the resulting fetus is sancrosanct. Even though test results indicate said child will have horrific deformities. Is that correct?

And then you go on to say that if a 21-year-old kid hands a 17-year-old a joint then the penalty should be death. Am I correct here, too?

Do you see how these statements are at odds with one another?

Keep in mind, I haven't an opinion on the subject matter, per se. Only that your statements appear to be conflicting.

Drift — November 8, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 8, 2011 at 9:16 a.m.

Drift, you have an opinion, you may not wish to share, I can understand that especially on this topic. Let me reassure you, I don't have a conflict. My answer is yes to both of those statements. I choose not to be a hypocrite on these issues. I was very clear, I believe that life begins at conception, without any exceptions as for how this happens or known deformities, it is a human life and deserves the protections offered all others in the Preamble. If I believed as others in situational ethics and floating timelines as to when life begins I would struggle with all the rest that fight over this issue. I don't fight with it, to me it is very simple.

As far as the drug issue, I stand by what I've said there too. Drugs rights for whoever is stupid enough to use them incorrectly, and responsibility to face the consequences for their own dispair. Until they reach majority, I don't think kids should be given the choice.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's officially election day, although, I mailed mine in a couple of days after I received it. Will be interesting to see the look of disbelief on the faces of people if the Costco liquor thing passes. I hope they don't think they are going to get cheap booze. First, Washington is a very greedy state, and they will offset any lost revenue by raising taxes. Second, the tax on a gallon of booze (as of Feb. 2010) in Nevada and California is less than four bucks a gallon. In Washington it is over $26.00 per gallon. These taxes are not going to go down. So much for saving a bundle of liquor in Washington. But, the worthless public schools are going to get some more money. This is the main reason I voted against privatizing liquor. I don't want any more of my tax dollars dumped into the public school money pit.

cranky — November 8, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

G-Pap out, L-Pap in, Berlusconi to resign after 2012 austerity budget. That is as likely to happen as our government to spend less money next year from this year, an actual cut. Total financial collapse is unavoidable. Breaking windows over student loans is a symptom of larger issues to come.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm curious where the so-called Seperation of Church and State champions are on this one. This lady must not realize we don't celebrate Christian holidays any longer in our schools.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

From the Wing-
"As far as the drug issue, I stand by what I've said there too. Drugs rights for whoever is stupid enough to use them incorrectly, and responsibility to face the consequences for their own dispair. Until they reach majority, I don't think kids should be given the choice."
Quote ends-

Now, I think you are beginning to wander a bit. I agree that adults should have the freedom to do as they will, as long as those actions don't impact another.

Kid's have a choice, Wing. Kids are human beings with the ability to perform rational thinking. Kids make decisions every day. It is my belief it's a parents responsibility to guide their children. It is a parents responsibility to teach their child each and every decision that kid makes can/will have repercussions. -I- believe education is key to minimizing adolescent drug abuse.

What you wrote is that the crime of handing a kid dope should be a capital offense.

You didn't address that in your response.

Drift — November 8, 2011 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 8, 2011 at 11:56 a.m

I thought it was implied in my response, yes I stick to that. I agree, kids are human beings, but there are many things we make age requirements for.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, I looked at the comment moderation tools on both pain stories, and I didn't see anything from you in there. That means it wasn't something we deleted, but rather something going haywire with the FB comments. (We know it's not a perfect system, but we're working on it.) Would you mind e-mailing me with info on which operating system (Mac/Windows) and browser (Internet Explorer/Firefox/Chrome/etc) you're using to comment?

Matt Wastradowski — November 8, 2011 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*gavel-down harris is commenting in the following C story, if anyone would like to fb a comment:*

**Vancouver plans salary comparison for workers**

DeeLittle — November 8, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


using my trusty ol' dell laptop and firefox.

noticed you didn't include the lou/john comments. understood :)

DeeLittle — November 8, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

D'oh! I missed that one!

As for comments being removed, are you referring to your comments? Or comments by others? I mean, I'm not sure what to say. Yes, it happens. Sometimes, people violate the guidelines, and their posts are removed. That's true of any story and column, not just Lou and John. But beyond that, I'm not sure what to say. Are you just saying that many comments are removed in general from their column?

Matt Wastradowski — November 8, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Does a consultant really need to be hired? There's no city employee qualified to pick up a telephone and make a few calls?

If I wanted to compare the package of a ten year city engineer with one in the private sector I'd pick up the phone and talk several engeering firms.

Heck, I'd fire-up my word processor and send out questionnaires.

Double-heck, if I was going to farm out the work I'd contact Clark College and get a student working on it. A grade is cheaper than a contract. Sheesh.

Yes, Ms. Harris, it is quite obvious you *are* government.
...spend a dime to save a nickel, eh?

Drift — November 8, 2011 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal;=4213

Matt Wastradowski- I have it on good word provided to me by the Thesaurusians, that the meteor being tracked is actually the size 5000 foosball tables, and current trajectory promises it will slam into the Southern/Southeastern US this coming Saturday around 1700, right smack dab into Jackson Mississippi. Complete devastation from Texas to Florida to the Carolina's and those in between will occur, with large fiery fragments projected to splinter off and destroy portions of Ohio. The Russians are scrambling to prevent what could turn into a sensible thinking America. If they don't succeed, Those that are Left will rule America. Those that are Left will rule America. Those that are Left wil...Whoa! Trance broken.

It's been my experience the Thesaurusians are true to their word, barring timeless twists in the wind.

This could be the scoop you've been waiting for! It won't be long till your feet are propped up at the C!

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - The state's new collective bargaining law was defeated Tuesday after an expensive union-backed campaign that pitted firefighters, police officers and teachers against the Republican establishment.

In a political blow to GOP Gov. John Kasich, voters handily rejected the law, which would have limited the bargaining abilities of 350,000 unionized public workers.

***Thank God!***

hawkeye — November 8, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One more small example of the failure of our system to use common sense.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 8, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's not Saturday but,

Cheers for Ohio! They defeated the collective bargaining monstrosity that the republicans were pushing.

Cheers for Mississippi! They defeated the utterly obscene life begins at conception amendment that would have outlawed, well, almost everything about a woman's right to control her own body.

Cheers for Maine! They rejected the republican's efforts to disestablish same day voter registration, which was like forty years old.

Still waiting on the results from our state on the referendums.

dfsadfh — November 8, 2011 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Locally it appears that people will embrace a slight tax increase and a little more government spending! Might be a bad sign for Republicans in 2012!!! :)))

Good to see you aintnogod! Will check it out.

dfsadfh- I echo your cheers!

hawkeye @ 6:35- The House Republicans are wetting themselves!!!

nailingit — November 8, 2011 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""State Sen. Russell Pearce, the controversial architect of Arizona's immigration law, was voted out of office on Tuesday evening in a special recall election.""

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 12:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

With all the celebrating and back slapping in the morning with Judge Smails, they forgot about the bigger picture

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. When a medium of exchange has no intrinsic value, it will be of similar value to a Sears catalog when the time comes.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 9, 2011 at 2:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Folks, election day is over. Now you can all sit back and either congratulate the winners or sit and mope. I know my work isn't done with regards to C-Tran. Yes, Proposition 1 is passing and yes, we'll be paying more tax on non food items, something I didn't support BUT now, moreso than ever...EVERYONE should get on board and start sending in suggestions to C-Tran, to urge them to look into cost-cutting issues such as purchase of hybrid buses which have not been proven to be any better than the environment because of what it takes to produce the buses in the first place AND the fact that it takes far too long for the buses to pay for themselves. They need to put the purchases of the buses on the back burner and reserve the funds towards improving the Fourth Plain Corridor which I believe should include Bus turnouts closer to town in order to prevent traffic backups, especially during peak hours.

Also...Proposition 2 is on the table next and that one includes funding for the Fourth Plain Corridor as well as maintenance and operations for the LRT line, Clark County side, on the Columbia River Crossing project. They may not be so lucky. The voting margin is pretty narrow just to get the sales tax increase for this time around. Next time??? And tolls aren't that far away either, people.

So yes folks, my work is not done. C-Tran will be hearing from me today and on other days as well. It needs to be efficient and they NEED to know what the people of Clark County want...not the special interest groups.

goldenoldie — November 9, 2011 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"It was the birth of what is now known as "Starve the Beast" – a conscious strategy by conservatives to force cuts in federal spending by bankrupting the country. As conceived by the right-wing intellectual Irving Kristol in 1980, the plan called for Republicans to create a "fiscal problem" by slashing taxes – and then foist the pain of reimposing fiscal discipline onto future Democratic administrations who, in Kristol's words, would be forced to "tidy up afterward."

Read more:

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Puzzling story about the apple harvest. Not enough workers to pick the entire crop. Most are blaming it on the feds and Arizona cracking down on illegals. The governor claims the shortage of workers is due to the federal gov, so the problem is "at their doorstep". ??????!!!!

The pickers get paid by the pound with a guarantee of minimum wage. One grower goes with the state's offer to supply inmate labor.

*More than 100 inmates arrived, with security officers in tow, to pick Jazz apples, which are in limited production and have a higher value. Each inmate cost $22 per hour, which McDougall pays the state to cover transportation, food, housing and security.*

*"I'd say they're probably picking about half what an experienced picker would pick," he said. "The value of the fruit obviously — vs. having it frozen on the tree — warrants the higher rate."*

I've got to assume this guy is making money even paying $22/hr or he'd leave the apples on the trees rather than take money out of his pocket and sell at a loss.

Sooooooooo, it follows these growers, among many others, want to kinda look the other way at illegal immigration (70% of the pickers are estimated to be illegal) so they can reduce their labor costs about 60% and make more money. Just like Wall St, they can't let scruples get in the way of profit.

mrd — November 9, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 9, 2011 at 6:25 a.m

So true Golden! You get the Gold star of the day!

Do you are anyone else find it odd that..1st came the article that global warming is far worse, no matter what we here in this country has done? That the numbers are actually higher than expected?
2. Then we have the election ...and.. wow the C-Tran taxes passed.

Makes me wonder if they used the global warming article just in time to scare people into voting for the tax..

ELISI — November 9, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now that it looks like Prop 1 passed, I wonder how long the gentleman's agreement about NOT using that money for any of the Loo-Rail proposed project will last.

The C-Tran board has shucked and jived us for so long I don't expect them to live up to anything anymore. If C-Tran has their way next year's vote will be only in the service area they will feel comfortable with knowing they would win. They won't even consider a vote county wide even though they service most of it.

Stay tuned. As GO says the work is just beginning!!!

JohnCasey — November 9, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — November 9, 2011 at 7:46 a.m.

I read an article about a year ago where there are many growers in this state and others, that bring pickers in from other countries legally to harvest the crops. So not all growers are using illegals.

ELISI — November 9, 2011 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

""A federal court put the brakes on a Republican-drawn congressional map Tuesday, potentially costing the GOP House seats in next year’s election.""

""Because of the state’s voting history, Texas officials are required under the Voting Rights Act to gain approval from the federal government. Instead of seeking approval through the Democratic-led Department of Justice, Texas opted to take the map to the federal courts for approval.""

“Today’s ruling supports what leaders of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus have been saying for months — the Republican leadership discriminated against minorities by seeking to grow their political influence in the halls of Congress and the Texas House while ignoring the demographic reality of those responsible for our state’s population growth,” said Texas state Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer in a statement.

Read more:

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

""House ethics rules put strict limits on the outside income and business activities of members. Reuters has found evidence that Gingrey may have broken some of these rules and closely skirted others."" ""Gingrey's position on the bank boards has been reported by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and other media. But to date there has been no look at his role in organizing the two banks or the ethical questions raised by his involvement with these lenders or a broader group of state power brokers involved in numerous Georgia banks that failed"".

The Dems need to investigate these baggers that are using their power for political and financial gain. Kick em' out. They are disgracing/undermining the political process as no group has done before. They are the dirt that is not being swept under the rug. Vacuum them out in 2012!!! Use spot cleaner if necessary! Scrub em' OUT!!!

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*McClendon says he is friends with Herman Cain, a conservative who made a fortune running Godfather's Pizza.
"But," he adds. "I’m open to whoever wins the primary and we are going to stand behind that candidate 100 percent.”*

isn't this guy really saying I'm voting for the party-whoever? Now everyone in Congress repeat, I'm voting for the party, not issues. Now can you say "gridlock"?

mrd — November 9, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Hey Jamie, how is that job bill coming along?*

She won't know until the White House sends her one to reject.

mrd — November 9, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys have to check this out. Keep in mind this is the guy who is behind over $100,000 in back child support. Living proof that we should take voting seriously.

""Walsh cut off the man, and screamed at him: "Don't blame the banks ... that pisses me off" before telling the calm constituent that he was going to ask him to leave if he didn't stop talking.""

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Dems should tout this guy as their poster child for reform in 2012!

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


this is the day AFTER the election...?

DeeLittle — November 9, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

@ 10:42---Yes DeeLittle. Yesterday 11/8 was the time to vote. Today is November 09.

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — November 9, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.

Yes they ran on a platform of jobs, and that is what they have tried to do. They are as clueless as democrats, Government does not create jobs, and when they try they just screw things up worse.

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — November 9, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.

As far as an audit of the Federal Reserve goes, the candidate that I support has been calling for an audit for years, he also wants to bring the troops home, he voted against the bailouts and the war in Iraq.

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — November 9, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.

As far as voting no all the time, both our democrat senators voted no on allowing lifesaving epinephrine inhalers to stay on the market, and to date neither has returned my emails encouraging them to allow poor asthmatics to continue to live.

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world,” Sanders said in a statement. “This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you’re-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.”

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 12:32 p.m.

Now you are sounding like a Ron Paul supporter.

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ron who?

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

It's funny how when we have a warmonger democrat in office, ending the wars seems to not matter to you guys.

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you had $100,000 that you wanted to do something with, would you:

1. Buy an existing business that employed at least one other person.
2. Start a new business if you could employ at least one other person besides yourself.
3. Donate to a private charity.
4. Send a check to the federal, state or local government.
5. Other.

No need for you to answer nailingit, everyone already knows you’d send a check to the government.

kn_dalai — November 9, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't you just feel just so gosh darned safe from the bad seeds of the world???

goldenoldie — November 9, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 9, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.

Would we really have a choice with #4??? They're going to get it one way or another anyhow.

goldenoldie — November 9, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@-1:44-fro-mage...what up? Hard to turn things around overnight if at all. When our country unjustly invaded Iraq and slaughtered well over 100,00 innocent men women and children, we insured the Arab's distrust and deep seeded hate of America for generations to come. I wouldn't doubt that it will bite us on the collective arse within the next decade in the way of a major terrorist event in our country. Karma. The only viable alternative at this point is the Republican party and the candidate it spawns. And you know how they are with matters of war!

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the "super committee" (gotta luv that name) evidently is at an impasse-no surprise there. Wonder if they'll go the way of Lou's recent column about political will? They'll come up empty and let the pre-arranged cuts kick in, then they can all dance around whodunnit.

I'm totally fed up with these guys.

mrd — November 9, 2011 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn_d- On happenstance you have a 100 grand to give, rest assured I would display a plaque in your honor kn_d sir!

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes it's easy to get sidetracked from important issues.

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Times up.

Of course the correct answer is: Throw the money in the fireplace...thereby proving that the Federal Reserve is not the only one that can control the money supply.

(I must say nailingit, I am very disappointed in your solution. I felt sure, you would want to donate to the government. I mean after all...)

kn_dalai — November 9, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Talk about D'OH.....

Turning to Texas Rep. Ron Paul to boast, Perry said: "I'll tell you: it's three agencies of government, when I get there, that are gone: Commerce, Education and, the --uh -- what's the third one there? ... Commerce, education and the uh, the uh..." before being interrupted by a question. "The third agency of government I would do away with -- Education, the, uh, Commerce, and let's see -- I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry."

He followed up in a subsequent answer: "By the way, that was the Department of Energy I was reaching for a while ago.”

hawkeye — November 9, 2011 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""Andy Rooney's college roommate and lifelong friend had a heart attack and was pronounced dead at the legend's memorial service...""

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- I think if you stuck Perry in a round room and told him to sit in the corner his head would explode. The quality of Republican presidential candidates is just pathetic. The conservatives could still nominate Perry, Bush's brain didn't matter.

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll tell ya,

Between the asteroid thing, and now this heart attack thing, they're takin' the bang out of my Ice Man conclusion.

If I did'nt know better, I'd think I was in some Matrix scenario and their lifting stuff off of my word program.

Actually...I don't know better.

kn_dalai — November 9, 2011 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Matrix would explain much. Or humankind the pieces and earth a game board that is used for amusement and instruction by a supreme race.....just sayin'. Something is amiss.

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jimmy Zee,


kn_dalai — November 9, 2011 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sportyjames — November 9, 2011 at 8:30 p.m

Ya think?

frobert — November 9, 2011 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""It appears the protest may get worse as the night goes on, as Jones reports there’s a fire at Old Main.""

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 11:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 9, 2011 at 7:22 p.m.

Now THAT is funny!!!!

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, I don't think you'll get a straight answer out of Frobert, especially with the chiming in of li'l Sporty and their personal attacks.

Matt Wastradowski, just why DO you allow such trash talk to remain in print???

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like Mayor Adams is getting a bit unnerved by the Occupy Protests with one death most likely caused by an overdose in the encampment, Molotov cocktails being thrown on the steps of the World Trade Center (aka PGE Buildings at 2nd and Salmon), idiots screaming they are peaceful and all but taking out news reporters just trying to show what is happening, and dumpster fires next to the tents in the wee hours of the morning. (Must be the protesters are getting chilly.)

Shut 'em down, Mayor Sammie Boy. They are tainting the honesty and integrity of those who have America's best interests at heart.

Sorry, but when you see the folks with the anarchy sign on the back of their worn leather jackets and Juggalo's looming in the crowd with their Insane Clown Posse paint, doing nothing but loitering and mouthing off some ridiculous jibber jabber...and the news focuses on the nutcases who are self-proclaimed members of Occupy Portland, it's time to close shop...get real...and celebrate the freedom of assembly and freedom of speech in the manner that Vancouver has done. Sammie Boy, you could learn a lesson or two from us folks on the other side of the Columbia.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lets face it, those that are camped out, saying they are "part of"
Occupy movement are not part of the working class that started Occupy.

IMO they are derelicts. They need to be removed, shut down.
They are doing more harm than good for the actual movement.

They are destroying what good honest hard working people of America is trying to do.

My message to Mayor Adams..Remove them Mr Mayor, shut them down even if it means jail time. They need to go.

ELISI — November 10, 2011 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Most Americans Support Raising Minimum Wage To Ten Dollars Per Hour, Survey Finds-

""While Democrats were more likely to support a minimum wage boost, more than half of Republican respondents said they would like to see the minimum wage go up, according to the survey.""

nailingit — November 10, 2011 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

~Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer Simpson~

nailingit — November 10, 2011 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And I've always thought Argentinian Steak was too gamey.

nailingit — November 10, 2011 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like Mr Mayor Adams finally grew a pair and told Occupy to vacate by midnight Saturday.

My suggestion, stay away from downtown Portland at that time.
I have a feeling it is going to get nasty.

ELISI — November 10, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe Mayor Adams' speech was executed quite well and included compassion for the folks at the Occupy locations, yet he showed he won't stand for any more criminal activity or needless injury or death...and with Police Chief Reese emphasizing the fact that PPD will do what is necessary...

it's a good time for the folks at the Occupy locations to pack up and regroup AFTER the parks have been re-established and take a more refined turn. The damage has been done to the parks at taxpayer expense as well as business owners in the downtown area suffering the wrath of those who take it upon themselves to do damage and harass the people of the it's obvious this type of occupation is ineffective. They could really take a lesson or two from Occupy Vancouver in my opinion.

For those who truly have nowhere to turn, the City of Portland has extended a helping hand.

Let's hope Sunday Morning and the weeks following the eviction of the occupiers is uneventful with regards to criminal activity.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the G O Peebaggers are getting wierd.

Perry wants to cut, cut, cut, he's just not sure where, but cut anyway. Which depts? Dunno, pick 3 and do it.

and this-*Huntsman went on to call for the biggest banks to be "right-sized" to prevent a systemic crisis like 2008. And he said the government "ought to charge some sort of fee from the banks that mitigates the risk that otherwise the taxpayers are carrying." Dodd-Frank originally included a $50 billion fund for that purpose, paid for by financial institutions. **But the fund was dropped during negotiations with Senate Republicans.***
Huntsman is a GOPer, right? What do these GOPer's want? Right hand meet left hand. Naw, just say NO!

mrd — November 10, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tomorrow on ESPN at 4pm President Obama will be on the carrier
Carl Vinson for a Veterans Day event. My son's best friend who is stationed on the Carl Vinson is as excited as a little kid on Christmas morning.

ELISI — November 10, 2011 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh SportyJames, I think you're missing the original thought behind Occupy Wall Street. Now if you'd take a look back at what the original message was, it was a protest against government bailout of Wall Street which included the banking industry. In the meantime, the banking industry utilized our tax dollars for their own benefit then turned around and started throwing all these new fees on the people who had their accounts with these banks. Also, certain banks had the hair on the trigger to foreclose on people's homes...even for those who didn't have an account at their facility. It spiraled out of control and all we could do is watch the whole fiasco with little we could do about it. People were over their heads in debt, thanks to the wonders of "Buy Now, Pay Later" sales pitches we've been brainwashed by marketing to believe it was good for us. Look what it got the people??? Notice how in the past 5 years the advertisements on television focused on debt consolidation and "you can get cash now if you sell your gold"???

Now we're facing a huge deficit in Fannie Mae loans and guess who's asking for another bailout???

Also Sporty, when ordinary people like us(???) tried to refinance, the housing bubble which burst caused the value of the homes to plummet yet the banking industry still got their money with interest on foreclosure sales and it wasn't enough. A good lump sum of mortgages today are severely underwater...and it isn't just the homeowners who are to blame.

So you see SportyJames, there was originally a good reason behind Occupy Wall Street but unfortunately with all the publicity by the mainstream media and their wonderful job of covering for the top 1% since they're in cahoots with them...the message has been lost, sad to say.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also, Sporty...

What you are witnessing now with regards to Occupy Portland...these people aren't the originators. They are the festering fringe which feed off of people with good intentions.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 10, 2011 at 12:43 p.m

The big difference between the Vancouver Occupy is that, people come, march, hold signs, say what they have to say and go home.

They aren't camping out on the streets or parks, they are not blocking traffic, throwing trash everywhere, setting dumpsters on fire, using the streets as their personal urinals, receiving handouts in ways of food, chaining themselves to trash cans, bullying business owners, employees, new crews and shoppers.

Like I said last week, the original Occupy groups do exactly like the Vancouver group. The ones that have stayed, camped and causing the trouble most likely haven't a clue and only parroting what they have heard.

ELISI — November 10, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*the message has been lost, sad to say.*

I'm afraid the Occupy movement lost it among themselves. Very few would have argued against regulating the big banks as now the "too big to fail" banks (the largest 6) have $9.7 trillion in assests-over 2/3 the entire GDP of the US. And BoA just shifted $53 trillion into their commercial arm, scaring the bejesus out of the FDIC. Wanna guess who's on the hook?

The notion of getting money out of politics would have resonated, but without focusing on a few big ticket items, the message got lost. Too bad. As they say, "TOO many cooks spoil the broth".

mrd — November 10, 2011 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I noticed that you complained about the Columbian's failure to remove a post that you deemed inappropriate last night, however when Allen or Hawkeye make their inappropriate often offensive posts, you remain strangely silent.

frobert — November 10, 2011 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — November 10, 2011 at 2:56 p.m.

Show me!

hawkeye — November 10, 2011 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"" Now the Russian probe and China's craft, also on a mission to Mars that's very much in jeopardy, are in danger of becoming space junk or worse—Phobos-Grunt's orbit could decay, bringing a payload of toxic hydrazine fuel careening back to Earth."",2817,2396247,00.asp#fbid=ds2baJ8kTaI

nailingit — November 10, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tis' the season. If you would like to purchase a gift for someone "who has everything"...

nailingit — November 10, 2011 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh, Fro?

inappropriate often offensive posts? you are remaining strangely silent.

hawkeye — November 10, 2011 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nearly 30 years ago, I picked up a young female hitchhiker in Norway. She said she was going to a high school in New Jersey the next school year as an exchange student. She said she had heard that the high school athletes were the big men on campus, so to paraphrase. Of course she was right, but I really didn’t know what to say, as I recognized the negative connotations as it relates to a public school system whose primary mission, I suppose, is mental education more than sports.

While I have great admiration for athletiscism, and recognize the importance of a well rounded individual and public educations’s efforts to effect such wholesomeness, I’m a little tired of the this whole sports thing, mentality.

To Wit. Penn State.

We’ve all seen the films of the angry dads at the little league games, And this is all these characters have in their life? Getting mad over a strike or ball call.

O.J. was big time for a while. Now he’s in prison. There’s your team sports mentality of this age.

Watching these little wet behind the ears Penn State kids do their little riot, makes me sick. Joe P. may well be a legend, but if he has looked the other way, while non-football player kids were having their lives wrecked, is a zit on the face of sports.

Once again.

kn_dalai — November 10, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — November 10, 2011 at 2:56 p.m.

Hey Frobert, sorry I didn't get back to you in a timely manner. I see you have been waiting for a response from me so now I am here to share. My comment I'd made to Matt was directed to not just you or Sporty, but to the conversation in general. It was uncivil, disrespectful and in my opinion...not acceptable behavior. Remember, personal attacks are not allowed, Frobert...and you egged it on with your comment to Sporty on November 9th at 8:55pm which puts you at risk of receiving the same treatment it appears Sporty and Allen have received. I've been told time and time again from Matt Wastradowski that if I find something to be inappropriate, to flag or hit ignore.

Well, for the most part, I don't flag (rarely do I ever flag any comment unless it's an obvious personal attack and has been left on the discussion for far too long with obvious emotions raised) and I won't click on ignore. I just go onto the next comment...and as you can see clearly, that is what I did. I went on to the next comment. Yesterday afternoon, I had other priorities to attend to, so my free time to post on the C wasn't available.

So Frobert, I hope you can understand why I hadn't said anything to the other comments. I've recently found out I'm going to be a Grandma again and getting ready for that has priority over needless personal attacks on a newspaper website.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 10, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

Maybe it has something to do with their diets, the rigorous training and what affect it has on the chemistry of their brain. It's a thought.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie and kn_dalai: Both your comments elicited a hearty "Yes!" from me this early morning.

Young people under the age of 25 or so just don't have the same mature and functioning frontal lobes that adults do. Their judgment is often flawed because they don't have the equipment to make good executive decisions. Pair that with the fact that these student riots are likely alcohol-fueled amd you have the "knucklehead" syndrome. You might as well pull that brain out and put it on a shelf for all the good it does the owner of it.

What happened at Penn State happened because the Masters of the Universe who ran that football program were elevated to god status by a culture that values a winning football team and coaching staff above all else. The fact that the "all else" was the safety of vulnerable children, is beyond evil.

Money and status corrupt. Where else do we see that? Anyone view the recent Jack Abramoff interviews of him lately, promoting his book?

manthou — November 11, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: By the way, congratulations on the new grandchild coming! We are looking forward to our very first in a couple of months. I haven't looked forward to something with such happy anticipation in a very long time. It does put things in perspective: what truly matters, afterall?

manthou — November 11, 2011 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, so very true, very true! Our little bundle of heaven is due in February...around Valentines Day.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And a hearty Congrats to you and your family as well, Manthou!!!

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like we are in for the usual nasty fall weather this weekend.

Wind and rain. Good weekend to snuggle and watch movies, read a book.

ELISI — November 11, 2011 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Congrats to both of you, Golden and manthou...a new grandchild is like a breath of fresh air.

I have 2 grandsons, one just turned 6 months yesterday. I have only gotten to see him twice since he was born due to where my daughter lives, but I get pictures and updates daily. Thank goodness for cell phones and the internet.

Hopefully my other grandson will come to stay part of the summer with us.
He's 13 and I think mom, dad, and baby brother could use a break from

ELISI — November 11, 2011 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: We are looking at being long-distance grandparents, too, albeit on the West Coast, thankfully. I'll bet your older grandson appreciates his one-on-one time with you in the summers. :)

goldie: I posted another comment on the C-Tran forum. You and I must be among the very few left standing in our interest and vigilance about the financial statement. I had to dig for more info, but it is there with more promising to come. :)

manthou — November 11, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Today, I raise my flag in honor of those who have served in the armed forces. Their selfless act of risking their own lives to protect us and to preserve the freedom of our nation should never go unnoticed. Thank you to all Veterans of the US Armed Forces.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you, ELISI. No matter where our loved ones matter how far the distance...we are always together in our hearts.

Manthou, I'll be checking the C-Tran forum next. Thanks for the heads up.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And Manthou...I have answered you on the C-Tran Forum. Thanks.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, it was really hard when they moved away 2 yrs ago.

I was so used to seeing my oldest grandson everyday. When he came to stay with us this past summer for a few weeks, first thing he asked for was potato salad. I asked him why, potato salad is potato salad..your mom makes the same way I do. He replied..nope she can't grammy, only you can put your love in it.

Made me cry..

ELISI — November 11, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Golden, so true, so true

ELISI — November 11, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**OH GOLDIE !!!!!**

congratulations to the parents-to-be AND their brazenly doting gramma :)

my remaining son was born in feb....on valentine's day. great for girl, not so great for guys :)

but i have to remind him: feb 14 is better than fri the 13th !

DeeLittle — November 11, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yo, Fro....

Still waiting...............

hawkeye — November 11, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oooh DeeLittle!!! Maybe the baby will be born on your son's birthday!

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 11, 2011 at 2:15 p.m.

After seeing that all of Allen's posts have been removed, I regret bringing up the matter in the first place. So, in short I will not comment further on the subject.

frobert — November 11, 2011 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

....allen's posts are gone....?

what happened...?

DeeLittle — November 11, 2011 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, I think the readers have a right to know what happened to Allen. I sent an email to Matt this morning but have still not heard from him. Maybe he's off for the day. Either way, I have to say that in my experience on the C, Allen has on occasion disagreed with my comments and we've even shared in debate...but he was always courteous to me which says a lot about the man's character when he can show respect to the women of the forum.

Losing Allen is yet another negative blow to the forum. At least he tried to understand both sides of the ticket which is more than I can say for some here on the C. He will be missed.


Allen, if you're reading the forum...I'm thinkin' about ya, friend - and I did receive your last email via the Columbian feature which allows us to send private messages to each other. If only Matt had read it...he might not have been so quick on the "Delete User" button.

I'm only sorry we never exchanged emails. I hope you come back soon to the C.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2011 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

and this was done....WHY?

allen is a vigorous defender of his opinion, nothing more. i usually disagree with him, but he's not on ignore, something that can't be said for certain bobble-head koolaid dolls around here.

MATT: why?

DeeLittle — November 11, 2011 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is absolutely ridiculous. What Allen said in no way warranted being deleted. He can be a little over zealous in defense of his beliefs at times but who isn't guilty of that every once in a while and if minor teasing and name calling is basis for banning half the posters here should be blocked.... Including myself.

Genevieve — November 11, 2011 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Removal of the inappropriate post was reasonable, removal of the poster was not.

frobert — November 11, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK Matt, what's the scoop? I didn't see anything from Allen that would have resulted in his erasure. OK, the guy can get carried away sometimes but who here hasn't. I would understand deleting one post (two from Sporty) but to remove him totally? Not good.

hawkeye — November 11, 2011 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Two wrong don't make a right, I understand that.
Allen's comment to sportyjames was no worse than what sportyjames said to Allen.

sportyjames lives to tick people off. Most likely some young gun or so he thinks he is.

The two of them reminds me of a Banty rooster (sportyjames) and the mature Rooster (Allen). sportyjames tries to out crow Allen, and Allen being the mature one stands his ground.

Allen, if you are reading this, you are missed my friend, hope to see you back real soon.

ELISI — November 11, 2011 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt. Banning a Veteran on Veteran's day. Given what day it is and Allen being a long time commenter, his comment must have been extremely profane. Because if it wasn't......

.......then banning him wasn't right. You never do provide explanations when you ban someone. You were asked about larimer and gods voice a few weeks back. Nothing. One of many.

What's up?

nailingit — November 11, 2011 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Congrats goldenoldie and manthou!

Good to see you Genevieve, assuming you are attending, how's school?

nailingit — November 11, 2011 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“People say there might eventually be 20 victims identified in this case, but who knows if the number might not be 200?” said Michael Dowd, a New York lawyer who has represented hundreds of child abuse clients. “The damages sought could total $100 million.”

“The damage to the victims is so profound — pain, suffering and perhaps lifetime injuries — that juries usually are unbridled as to how to calculate the damages,” said Harold Goodman, a Philadelphia lawyer who has represented multiple clients in similar cases. “The damages are likely to be immense. These are huge cases.”

nailingit — November 11, 2011 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for asking Nailingit. =) I am in school which is the reason I haven't been posting as often, it's going well, as always.

frobert — November 11, 2011 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, sorry about that. The above post was from me obviously, I didn't realize Fro was logged in!

Genevieve — November 11, 2011 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning all,
As a sometimes poster but a daily reader, I want to know what happened to Allan. Matt?? Allan is one of the most reasonable posters here, so what in the world could have happened to take him off here? Please bring him back!

Anybody read the article re the suggestion to close campus branches of WSU and other Us? How shortsighted is that? Deprive people of such an asset? The higher enrollment figures every year prove the need for the campus, not just here but also Spokane and TriCities. Are our reps in Olympia THAT ignorant? Are they still capable of forming rational thoughts?
(Disclosure: I do work at the U on a semi regular, temp basis. It does show me the absolute need for the campus every day I go there, however).

luvithere — November 12, 2011 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Great!!! I see the instigator is still around yet Allen isn't???

Matt, what are you trying to do??? Shut down the forum??? Do what is right and bring back the one who engages in civil discussion would ya???

Sporty, you remind me of a lazy fly buzzing around a festering wound.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

sportyjames — November 12, 2011 at 7:40 a.m

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

ELISI — November 12, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Look at that, Squishey has two sign in names on here. If this is such a "useless" website, why do you bother to post here?

hawkeye — November 12, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If this is such a "useless" website, why do you bother to post here? hawkeye — November 12, 2011 at 8:07 a.m.

was just thinking the same.If people hate this site so much and only complain, why do they come here to say so? Why not just leave it alone?
I actually got some decent info here during the time I read/post, but I sure do not like when some commenter just come on to complain or attack one specific other poster. What's the use, Sporty or Cranky?

luvithere — November 12, 2011 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

oops, meant clarko.Sorry cranky!

luvithere — November 12, 2011 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

clarko at 8 am: Good morning to you! The success of this forum, in my opinion, lies largely in the fact that posters have made connections with each other. We get back to the comments you find more interesting eventually. We take detours at times and I think that is OK. Join in with us more often. I like to hear your opinions, too.

Lou B: Don't know if you take the freight elevator down here every so often but, if you do, I want you to know that your Press Talk this morning offers wise advice to one of Clark County's most promising "Doers and Movers", David Madore. I absolutely loved it and agree with your observations.

Newspaper editors do much more than guarantee clean copy for readers. I think they are in the perfect position to be well-informed observers of the community they serve. You showed some good insights this morning and good advice. Maybe you should seriously consider expanding your virtual Politics 101 class to Clark College. Something on the order of Media and Politics in Clark County? It would be packed.

I am serious. You mibht need a beefy bouncer, however, to control the crowd at times. :)

manthou — November 12, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen is responsible for his posts, not Sporty. People on here need to accept a little personal responsibility and stop blaming Matt or Sporty for Allen's mistake. Hopefully Matt is just making a statement about acceptable limits and Allen will be back soon. Instead of jumping all over someone else, you that have encouraged Allen should look at yourselves.

frobert — November 12, 2011 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Shaking my head at manthou, Lou should not quite his day job and he sure makes his mother proud by his dissing folks as he does. Sorry but I don't see how his column does the community any good by bullying those that step up and try to change the good old boy system that has been in place for years here?? Politics as usual isn't helping the Community with the back door deals? All I see is higher taxes and folks pushing their agendas and costing us more money!

karma — November 12, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to be putting the slapdown on Lou, but --

For a "trained jounalist" (that being he) I find his writing substandard. I'm not speaking of content -- that is, the subject of his column. I'm speaking of his skills as a "writer." Frankly, it still surprises me, each and every Saturday.

Hey, Lou, I'm an amateur author. Though I've a book to be published in the next month or two, as of this date I've never made a dime with my writing. I just want to be upfront before I make my following offer. Send me a draft of your column and allow me to make some editorial notes. Maybe we can put a little pizzazz into your column.

Hey, I'm just trying to help ya out, man.

Oh, and straying here just a tad:
Yo, Nail, your Huff link on 11-9 (Johnson/cannabis) was spot on!

Drift — November 12, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

karma: I can see your point. I do think the paper poked fun of Mrs. Wentzel under the cloak of reporting as the election campaign wore on. I just happen to think that Lou B's advice to David Madore is good. I think David Madore is a talented citizen who is doing some good things for the community. I just wish Madore would widen his circle of trusted friends and vet his candidates a little better (advice offered by the editor this morning). Bill Turlay seems to be the winner in a tight race for City Council. He presents to the public better than any other Madore-backed candidate so far (my opinion). Let's have more Bill Turlays on Madore's support list and more might get elected. Throwing money at quirky candidates might as well be used to start your fireplace. And yes, I think most of the candidates backed by Madore, with the exception of Bill Turlay, are far out there.

manthou — November 12, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Can anyone explain to me why having a millionaire single-handedly "donating" huge amounts of money (relative to a city council race) is a good thing? Turlay's resume is a moot point, what is the point is Madore can and probably will have too much influence on Turlay's positions. If he crosses Madore, you can bet his phone will ring and knowing it's Madore, he'll answer. Think Turlay will take everyone else's calls as quick and serious?

mrd — November 12, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Lew, instead of complaining about how David spends his money or why Josephine, Jaye, Jojo (or whatever her name is) lost the race, or how Turlay will react when David whispers in his ear, let's get down to the nitty gritty and find the root of all the problems in politics today and start your own campaign on ***campaign reform!*** I'd love to see that, do something positive with your ten inches of print.

hawkeye — November 12, 2011 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve @ 11/11/9:14&17-...It reminded me of when you started posting to this forum. fro responded as Genevieve, and, as my nature dictates, I was having some fun with it! You cleared matters up and fro was off the hook from getting in touch with his feminine side! Sometimes good things happen when mistakes are made. Glad your world in academia is well and it's always great to see you post.

Drift- "Maybe we can put a little pizzazz into your column." I offered my services a few months back as well. (for a nominal fee!) So far no response :))

manthou-"Let's have more Bill Turlays on Madore's support list and more might get elected. Throwing money at quirky candidates might as well be used to start your fireplace."

Be careful what you wish for. Think 2010. Sometimes for the sake of disrupting the good ol' boys system, we get something far worse. Money at quirky candidates in 2010 worked quite well for the Bagger movement! Given how madore conducted himself during this election, I would rather not see him, and have him slip quietly into the night when it comes to our local political scene.

nailingit — November 12, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

During the election race I asked Campbell why he voted in favor of the cannabis collective garden moratorium. He responded he did so on the City Attorneys recommendation. I found the answer unacceptable, but let it go.

It wasn't until I watched the video where the moratorium was extended I learned he actually voted as he did out of ignorance and bias. 'Course, that no longer is of issue.

I asked Turlay his opinion in the matter. He chose not to respond.

I asked McEnerny-Ogle. She responded she was in favor of it. We traded a couple of emails in polite discussion. By the end of it, I don't know that I had swayed her, but I'm confident I gave her something to chew on.

Just sayin'.

Drift — November 12, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- "I'd love to see that, do something positive with your ten inches of print."

A comment of metaphorical proportians!

nailingit — November 12, 2011 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The problem with this forum and most others is that people take them too seriously. They are only for entertainment. And like entertainment, after a while, if there isn't something new, it becomes boring and everyone will lose interest. When the Columbian did the Facebook move, it screwed everything up. By doing so they lost most of the better contributors. If they did away with this forum along with the Facebook one, after a couple of weeks, I doubt that other than a handful of people, no one would miss them. Everyone will go elsewhere for their entertainment.

cranky — November 12, 2011 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

---NEWS FLASH---**Herman Cain: God Convinced Me To Run For President**

"I prayed and prayed and prayed," Cain told about 100 members of the Georgia Young Republicans in Atlanta on Saturday. "I'm a man of faith, I had to do a lot of praying for this one, more praying than I'd ever done before in my life. And when I finally realized that it was God saying that this is what I needed to do, I was like Moses. 'You've got the wrong man, Lord. Are you sure?'"


nailingit — November 12, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal I see now, SportyJames. You don't have Allen to bash so now you are going to try to bash me as well. Isn't it ironic that when you had made a post on November 10th at 1:57 pm regarding Occupy Portland, I wasn't throwing in personal attacks with my comment at 2:14 pm and the addendum right after that. In fact, I was sharing in civil discussion with you but did you bother to add to the discussion? Of course not. That's not your style. Your style instead is to attack those for who you wish to silence like with Allen and now your feeble attempts with me. Den Mother??? Thanks for the compliment but so sorry, Charlie...that's not my M.O. here on the forum. You say I have the need to control who says what. Well Sporty, if that were so...I would have continued to pursue a response from you but your silence was a clear reminder that you are quite uncivil and only incite civil discourse by name calling and as clearly stated by you in a comment for which I admit I had to flag (removal of comment, not the pen name) when you referred to Allen as being drunk. You have needled him constantly, to the point that it was cruel and highly uncivilized. You have clearly broken the rules on the Columbian time and time again, yet you are still allowed to shout your trash talk and get away with it. When you do post your opinion regarding community events and issues, it is quite refreshing.

Sporty, if you want to blame anybody for the number of people who post here, you can thank the Columbian for turning to Facebook. Not many people know they have to log off of Facebook in order to post on the forum. I even had to explain that to Mr. Pat Timm, the gentleman who provides "The Weather Eye" on the Columbian. So my fellow poster, you can play the trash talk game, but this lady isn't playin'.

Manthou is absolutely right in her comment at 8:20 am. I suggest you go back and re-read it. I also suggest curbing your indulgence of personal attacks if you care to continue on the Columbian. It's clearly written in the terms of service and Matt just might get tired of dealing with it.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

To continue...

Sporty, you claim this is my personal playground. Well, sorry my fellow poster, but the C is not my "personal Playground" as you would like to think. In fact, if you go back and see the times and days I post, I'm not even on here like I used to be. My insatiable desire to know everything??? Hehe...that's a good one. How many times have I pointed out that I am "SHARING MY OPINION" and for folks to PLEASE remind me when I have been mistaken???

Busybody, now...Can I help it if people ask me direct questions and I'll do what I can to find the answers for them???

Oh, and by the way...sorry I didn't respond to at 7:40 am right away....but I'm sure you will notice I haven't been on all day as your distorted perceptions leads you to believe.

So Sporty, you obviously have a guilt eating at you right now for your behavior...hence your personal attack upon me. Does your piece of Humble Pie taste good right now or is it a bit sour for you???

Well Sporty...I'm pretty sure you'll have to come up with a doozie after these two posts of mine and that's fine. You have a right to your opinion as I do mine but remember this...

Uncle Matthew is watching!!!

Enjoy your afternoon. Oh...and you might try some cool mint mouthwash to get rid of that sour taste in your mouth!

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did I get your attention yet? I see you're following suit with your alter ego. Instead of getting caught up in the drama, care to share about issues at hand like Occupy Portland, the Economy or some other matter which affects each and every one of us??? That's what an open forum is all about!

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay now...this is getting ridiculous. Check out this article. It's one of those "Say what???" type articles. What'll they think of next???

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 1:06 p.m.

Again, Allen is the only one responsible for the offensive remark that got him removed.

frobert — November 12, 2011 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As we all are for our own, Frobert. Your comment was recognized the first time around.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2011 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***CALLING ALL OCCUPIERS***:,0,4293298.story

"When Siga complained that contracting specialists at the Department of Health and Human Services were resisting the company's financial demands, senior officials replaced the government's lead negotiator for the deal, interviews and documents show."


"Siga was awarded the final contract in May through a "sole-source" procurement in which it was the only company asked to submit a proposal. The contract calls for Siga to deliver 1.7 million doses of the drug for the nation's biodefense stockpile. The price of approximately $255 per dose is well above what the government's specialists had earlier said was reasonable, according to internal documents and interviews."

DeeLittle — November 12, 2011 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the great part about this piece (nowhere NEAR a paper near you) is that this mega-donator to the dem's sold us an experimental drug that may not work, to solve a problem the gvt doesn't think we have. and at $255/dose.


DeeLittle — November 12, 2011 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 10:38 am: You're not the only one who has warned me that Madore is not what he wants to project to the community. We'll see if Bill Turlay is his own man as he is the first of the Madore-backed candidates to make it to office. No one wants the 2010 craziness, for sure. Some of that is getting reversed in last week's elections.

Oregon is beating Stanford. Wow.

I am reading Stephen King's new book: 11/22/63: A Novel. It is a page-turner and I can't put it down. It is a dream-wish fantasy: a guy finds a time travel wormhole and goes back to save JFK from the assassin's bullet(s). I have a feeling something is going to go terribly wrong along the way.......

Chris Matthews interviewed King yesterday and he actually did some good research about this with some presidential scholars, asking them, "What do you think would have happened if JFK had not been killed?"

I am still asking myself: What would our country look like today if Al Gore had made it to the presidency?

manthou — November 12, 2011 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Go Ducks

hawkeye — November 12, 2011 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I am still asking myself: What would our country look like today if Al Gore had made it to the presidency?" I believe a lot safer/healthier place manthou. Iraq and the 'Bush' tax cuts wouldn't have happened. I read the Super committee has a plan to keep Bush/Obama tax cuts in place. Amazing that Democrats would consider throwing away a great source of revenue, while scaling back entitlement programs. I wrote Senator Murray and vowed I would leave the Democratic party if these useless and damaging tax cuts continue. Understanding this would scare the bejesus out of her, I've been waiting for a call, but so far........:)) :((

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

~Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one~

John Lennon

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good Saturday Morning, all.

I wanted to say I am quite pleased with the way the City of Portland and Mayor Adams handled last night's deadline. This is representative of dealing with the people in a civilized manner...working WITH the people instead of AGAINST them. In past months, I have been terse with some of the decisions and support Mayor Sam Adams has shown on certain subjects but I believe he is spot on with the Occupy Portland movement and do hope that the shutdown of the encampment continues in a civilized manner in order to restore the damage to the park so that everyone can once again utilize a wonderful green space in SW Portland. I also hope that the folks of Occupy Portland can continue to relay their message to DC without the problematic fringe which has hurt the all important message relayed by OP.

Kudos to you, Mayor Sam Adams. At current, you are exemplifying what it means to be Mayor of Portland, home town.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Romans 12:18

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's a link that speaks to my post.

And here is a pathway to be heard. I don't agree with the concept of a "super committee", but at least Washington St has one of our own sitting on it, and she's somewhat progressive.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 7:46 a.m.

We do need tax cuts but we also need social security, medicare, ect. We need a government that understands money. Maybe if the majority of our elected representatives weren't the kind of people who have had things handed to them their whole lives they wouldn't be so abysmal at managing our money. We need people who know how to pay the bills living off a minimum wage salary in office not ivy league trust fund babies like Gore, Bush, Clinton, and Obama.

Genevieve — November 13, 2011 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie- We should be thankful the Mayor doesn't depend on "revelation" to determine his actions. Peace is always the best way to go, and I could not agree more.

~Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."~ (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve- So true! The only way that could happen would be to get money out of politics. There are a few voices that are shouting his, but not nearly enough.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"shouting this", not "his"...sorry...

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

People always bust out Deuteronomy as a means of shaking Christian logic, last time I checked Deuteronomy was part of the Old testament so it only applies if you are speaking about Judaism. They did this update called the New Testament around 2000 years ago, I know you're older and change is hard but you might want to pick up a copy. Careful though it's got some pretty scary ideas in it like love, harmony, and peace. ;)

Genevieve — November 13, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:28 a.m.

The problem is that campaigns do need money for travel, lodging, and advertisement. The amendment Get Money Out proposes would only serve to widen the class divide because only people from wealthy families could afford the cost of a campaign without contributions.

Genevieve — November 13, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve- Last time I checked, Jesus claimed to have fulfilled the law, not disowned it. There is this thing called the the trinity, that seems to only apply to Christians. I know you are young and in being so, to a degree are faced with a degree of naivety. There are some really "scary" ideas surfacing from those on the right.

Revelation is so warm and fuzzy...isn't it?

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After 4 or 5 years of this depression, I think it's fair to say the attempts, as feeble as they've been, to end it aren't working.

End the dog & pony show called the "super committee". If the issue of the economy is depolitized, just for a second, it gets much easier. I'm so sick of hearing these clowns suggest they're doing something for the good of us all while behind the scenes, lobbyists are working their senior aides. Total BS.

Granted, a direct comparison between government and business isn't possible, but there are similarities. If your cash flow is negative, reducing outlays and increasing revenue is the best option. As government doesn't have the option of folding it's tent and going home, some outlays are required to continue.

If social security needs tweaking, raise the cap. What's so difficult about that? Although SS doesn't add to the deficit, the interest paid on "borrowing" that money does. Medicare is 8% of the deficit. Raise the contribution rate, duh.

End Obama's extension of tax cuts to the wealthy-tommorrow. The myth of this cut creating jobs has been busted.

Reverse the Feds policy of paying banks interest on storing their cash. Charge them for storing it. If they can't profit by hoarding cash, they'll have to circulate it.

Whack the defense budget. It's been 25 years since we out-spent the Russians and ended the Cold War. I don't recall ever seeing that "peace dividend". Maybe I missed it as it was so small.

Finally, all us consumers need to put our money where our mouths are. As much as possible, avoid buying products from countries that are running a trade suplus with the US. Although not possible in many cases, a significant shift in spending habits will get the attention of the Chinese, for example. Maybe they'll actually stop floating the yuan. We're still the world's biggest customer, better use that leverage or we won't have it for long.

Speaking of the Chinese, learn from them. Do business with the devil, if you have to. Get down off the high horse, having what you perceive as the moral high ground is too expensive. Barter. In exchange for whatever, we'll build you an airport. Allows multi-nationals to reduce trade deficit.

You can't cut, cut, cut anymore that you can tax, tax, and spend to fix this economy. Gotta do both and then some.

mrd — November 13, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve @ so? This seems like a good start to me. Not the end all, but a start in the right direction. The voices would be heard. A path could be made. Again not the end all. Negotiations for change always begin at the extreme end of the spectrum. Something our President hasn't learned very well. BTW...all in good humor :))

Line one: simply put, this part of the amendment would forbid any candidate for federal office (President, House or Senate) from accepting money to run or campaign for that office. This would include self-funders, corporations, labor unions, etc.

Line Two: this part of the amendment cuts off the Supreme Court's ability to strike down any and all campaign finance laws passed by Congress. This is THE most important aspect of the amendment. Without it, the Supreme Court will continue to say corporation and people can use their money as a device for political speech.

Line Three: this part of the amendment establishes a national day of voting. Most civilized countries have already-established national days of voting and their voter participation far exceeds ours.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm tired of these political fat cat$ always getting to eat the bird.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh Boy...that should have read Good SUNDAY morning. Glad I got another cuppa java before returning to the forum. Sorry about that.


Hey Nailingit, I'm a bit curious on your thought process here. You had shared the words to John Lennon's song, Imagine...a song about what it would be like if things were different and our world to live in peace. I share a chapter from the Bible about us living together as one, then you have to share a chapter from the Bible in the Old Testament with what could be perceived as an intent to denounce the Holy Bible's content.

Could you explain the reason for your intentions? I truly would like to know. And what is so wrong about the words shared in Romans 12:18? Is it wrong for the world to come together with a common goal for unity and peace? Is it wrong for me to point out a quote from a bible for which many people such as myself find would be the epitome of human existence?

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: The Super Committee. I am so grateful that our own Patty Murray is one of the Co-Chairs. We do have good access to her as constituents. When I have written to her, it has taken her months to respond, however. Months.

We will be looking at ugly compromises, no matter what side of the argument. Entitlement reform and revenue raising.

I am just trying to set it up for my children now that they will not be in the position of relying solely on Medicare and Social Security in their old age. The gap between the have and have nots will be increasing. Why some of the most vulnerable among us keep voting Republican is beyond me.

And what is to become of the President's jobs bill?

Keep contacting those representatives and senators, nailingit. I have not given up, either. I trust that the messages are being heard, if not responded to.

manthou — November 13, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nothing insidious or ill willed goldenoldie, btw way good morning! My intent? Didn't have one. Just drawing a contrast that exists within the bible.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 8:58 a.m

Hebrews 8 It covers the New Covenant with God. He clearly cancels out the old testament. The laws are unnecessary because the laws are ingrained in us he also promises that god and his children now have a special covenant with god above that of him and the Israelites.

Don't take me as a religious nut, I'm actually not even Christian but I love learning about religion and I believe that mutual respect is important. Every time I've seen anyone bring up anything remotely about Christians or Christianity before you've posted a demeaning comment and at times they have been down right bigoted. Maybe you should hit up mr. Drift and get a little something something so you can chill out about it.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:06 a.m.

It might be a good foundation but it definitely needs work. Again if there is no money involved at all how are the campaigns being financed? There are expenses that are impossible to get around. Maybe a system in which only individuals could make campaign contributions would be more effective that way it's still keeping corporations and lobbyist groups out of it.

Genevieve — November 13, 2011 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, I wish a good morning to you as well. Sorry I misunderstood that you had a specific intent and that was judgmental of me and I apologize. I am actually reading the Catholic Bible lately, trying to understand the message given and I have to agree with you that yes, there are contrasts that exist within the written word, but it follows a pattern which aligns much with the evolution of our society...something which has a lot of contrasts in itself as well. When certain chapters such as the one you mention are brought to the attention of everyone...especially to those who do not have the knowledge of why that chapter was written, it clearly displays a message that the entire book is written in that manner which I find to be untrue.

Honestly, if one could sit down and actually read and understand what the Bible has to well as written words in other could understand why some people say it is the number one most read book in the world...a Bestseller in it's own rights. The words are powerful and definitely have a meaning, even if some do not believe in the message which is to be understood.

Well, I guess I'm done with my little preaching job for the day. Just thought I'd share some food for thought. Either way Nailingit, you have to agree that we were sharing the same message with Lennon's song and the chapter from Romans which I shared.

I don't want you to get the impression that I am out to denounce you or anybody else with regards to their beliefs whether it is with the bible, Mother Earth, Science or any other belief. I'm just trying to understand all perspectives. I truly appreciate that you took the time to answer me as sometimes, my curiosity gets the best of me. Thanks, Nailingit.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of the the bible, and one of the many Republican candidates that lay claim to hearing God tell them it's his desire they govern our country, anyone catch Bachman on Meet The Press this morning?

WOW! She doesn't disappoint!

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Genevieve — November 13, 2011 at 9:42 a.m.

Gen, in my own rights, I do claim myself as a Christian but I too enjoy learning about world religions. It is a constant learning process and takes a lot of patience for sure. I can see where Nailingit is coming from and I don't think it was their intent to show any ill will...just a different perspective. As you say, mutual respect IS important.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cool goldenoldie. "Either way Nailingit, you have to agree that we were sharing the same message with Lennon's song and the chapter from Romans which I shared."

Amen to that! I understand the New testament conveys a brighter message than the old. Well, until one gets to Revelation! If given the concept of the Trinity is correct, and Jesus and God are one, (Jesus existing long before his temporal existence) what I alluded to with Genevieve is correct? I honestly don't know. It's hard (and Genevieve, manthou, GO, etc. please feel free to input) for me to wrap my head around the many acts of horrific and merciless violence we see in the old testament.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Every time I've seen anyone bring up anything remotely about Christians or Christianity before you've posted a demeaning comment and at times they have been down right bigoted. Maybe you should hit up mr. Drift and get a little something something so you can chill out about it."

??? :)) Relax Genevieve. Sorry if I have offended you or your beliefs. But not adhering to your PC statement as to speaking in the civil and socially correct way to approach Religion and those who use it as a political tool? Naw, no apologies!

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Hebrews 8 It covers the New Covenant with God. He clearly cancels out the old testament."

Your statement doesn't go to point. It's not like refinancing a home or canceling a life insurance policy, (or is it?) :))

If I use the same lender, said lender can explain the reasons for his old rates as well as his new!

If God savagely executes men, women and children at the hands of fellow human beings, for things like believing a different way, I find that contrary in nature with the same God that is "the same yesterday, today and forever" to Christianity, well with exceptions like...Galatians 1:8

~Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.~

Is it now the threat of eternal damnation rather than temporal destruction?

I really am trying to understand what I see as a fundamental inconsistency in God's nature. (the God as conveyed in the Christian religion)

What better day than today than to inquire? I know some think even questioning the bible is wrong, and we need to take it at face value. It's the face part I'm not understanding, which speaks to value.

If no one comments it's cool. I understand faith is a personal issue. Until it's brought into society for temporal gain, as is in politics, business, stature etc.

Again, I don't mean to be argumentative for the sake of argument here. Sincere questions.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, FWIW and all'a that --

John Lennon's tune _Imagine_ describes pure communism. Not "communism" as you might imagine it, but "pure" communism. Something that hasn't existed on this planet for 'prolly 10,000 years (the neolithic revolution was about 10,000 years ago).

No opinion. Not a snarky comment. Just sayin'.

Drift — November 13, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — November 13, 2011 at 9:01 a.m.

Good stuff, I'm on board. By the way, when you do decide to buy that new vehicle, look at the serial number. If it starts with a 1, it was made in the U.S. If it has a 2, Canada. if it has a 3, Mexico. If it has a J, Japan.

hawkeye — November 13, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Communism was the key to survival way back when as humans, faced with a daily struggle just to survive, formed groups focused on making it thru another day. Division of labor, protecting the future gene pool-females, et all, became the norm.

Today communism is a facade-usually a dictorial regime surviving by force or deluding people to believe the regime has their best interests at heart, or a combination of both.

Today capitalism is a facade-a group of capitalists controlling the government, a government which maintains itself in basically the same manner as a dictorial regime.

One hundred years ago, the capitalists needed a middle class to be their customer base. Today, they don't, so we've been kicked to the curb. With the governments basically insuring the wealth of the capitalists, see the European banking crisis, our own country's bailouts, Wall St running rampant risking all our financial futures, and on and on, a middle class is an anchor to the capitalists today. They only thing they need now is cheap labor as everything goes global, so the race to the bottom is on.

When much less populous countries, such as S Korea and Japan, receive more applications annually for patents than the US Patent Office it's rather apparent the capitalists aren't interested in developing much in the US. Why risk R&D; money if you don't need to in order to garner profit?

mrd — November 13, 2011 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 3:52 p.m.

Naw Goldie,

I shall return next week to conclude. (And I actually got a laugh from Sporty Zoichini.) Yes, is true:) kn_d @ 11/06. A deadline looms/loomed. A re-write to include the untimely departure of Allen? And k_nd, as much as anyone that posts here, and possibly more, if you are comfortable with it, I would appreciate your input with my questions about Christianity.

Given the nature of my inquiries this morning, I hope it's not indicative my time is up. Not quite yet anyway! Genevieve doesn't hold office yet, and the Bush tax cuts are still in place! :))

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 13, 2011 at 10:55 a.m.

That is a difficult concept for me to accept for some reason, Drift. I perceive it as Lennon dreaming about life without the need for any law or without the need for people to believe in anything beyond their worldly existence...much like Genesis in the bible before the fruit was picked from the tree which in my opinion was Utopian in description. Maybe he was having a moment in his life where he was questioning religion, much like the discussion today.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your posts as I am not. I'll tell you honestly, there's still much about the bible I wish to to answer your questions without studying firsthand, I am afraid my misunderstanding of the subject would come out...and I don't care to look like someone who hasn't given it her full attention. I will be reviewing your comments as I study on the subjects you have mentioned and have the full intention of getting back to you on them soon if that's alright with you.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie 12:03

No Heaven.
No possessions.
No countries.


I'm not the only individual that equates the lyrics to endorsing communism (again, "pure"). It's a widely held interpretation.

'Nuthin I'd care to get into a heavy discussion about. 'Specially beins' it's about my lunchtime.

Drift — November 13, 2011 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*-mrd: "With the governments basically insuring the wealth of the capitalists, see the European banking crisis, "*

according to the news, the reason the euro is failing is because of socialism in europe. greece isn't rioting because the corporations are too big, they're rioting because their benefits are going to be cut. same in france. same in england.

*Lennon and Imagine*

i suppose if you're making more money than the queen of your country, you can just lie around smoking and popping whatever makes you feel worthy of it all, and can come up with crap like this. down here in the real, un-enhanced world, you live where you can afford and eat what you can cook. you have heat and water because you pay for it. if you're really lucky, you can get ahead of surviving and actually get some non-essentials; car, tv, cable etc.

imo, lennon was just another drugged-out sellout selling his fantasies to people who bought into his 'deity' persona.

DeeLittle — November 13, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*according to the news, the reason the euro is failing is because of socialism in europe. greece isn't rioting because the corporations are too big, they're rioting because their benefits are going to be cut. same in france. same in england*.

As Germany, Sweden, and several other western European countries are doing quite well-better than the US-with all their socialistic tendencies, I would discount socialism as the single culprit. Perhaps a disproportionate amount is being spent on social entitlements in other countries, but I wouldn't think it would be accurate to paint with such a broad brush and finger socialism as the singular cause, especially with the US facing the same problems with a much greater income disparity and is farmuch further from a socialist state than Europe. In any event, I think one would have to see the budgets of these countries to see if entitlements were out of line. Maybe they were.

*People are rioting due to cuts in benefits*. Ask yourself, who stands to benefit from the austerity measures being introduced (read:forced) into Greece and Italy? (Hint-it ain't the people rioting.) Follow the money. The money that's being diverted from the general population's wealth to banks. Whether that wealth is derived from a socialist social model is a moot point at this time. Pulling the rug from under a majority of the population to insure the wealth of a few is a risky move and appears to be pretty unpopular.

Anyway, my point was that governments aid the capitalists with taxpayer's money while making less money available to the people in general. This policy has made the top one half percent very wealthy over the past several years while the wealth of the middle class has plummeted. As that wealth disappears, consumption drops, the economy tanks further, and more middle class wealth disappears. All the while, the rich keep getting richer and richer. Don't know about you, but for whatever the reason, to me this picture is very wrong.

mrd — November 13, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, maybe this will help you to simple as I can put it..

In the Old Testament, we see the vengeful side of God as He seeks to deliver the people from evil. When they disobey his orders and worship idols, he teaches them a lesson and then gives them the Ten Commandments by which they should live. In the New Testament, Jesus seeks to make people change for the better by preaching non-violence and forgiveness.

The Old Testament lists the laws and the rules that Christians have to observe. In the New Testament, Jesus practices these laws and rules as a way of setting an example for his followers.
The Old Testament speaks of promises, the New Testament delivers on those promises that God made to Abraham – that a Messiah would be born to save the world and deliver his people from all evil.
While the Old Testament details God’s interaction with his chosen people who he led out of bondage under the leadership of Moses, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the prophesy of a Messiah being born, and the life and teachings of this savior, Jesus Christ.
For Catholics, the Old Testament prepares the people for the coming of Jesus Christ and the New Testament fulfills the prophesies that were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the Psalms – that a savior would come and shed his blood for many for the remission of sins.
The Old Testament shows God’s love for Israel and his anger when his chosen people take to the ways of sin. In the New Testament, God proves his continued love for his people by sending his only son to die for these sins.

In most ways, the New Testament offers a way of redemption for the sins committed by the chosen people of God. In his infinite wisdom, God knows that no matter his wrath, *people will be sinners because that is their nature – after all, ever since Eve ate the forbidden apple, sin was a part of humankind*. And this is why he decides to sacrifice his only son, Jesus Christ, as the only way to offer redemption to mankind.

This link may help you understand a little more..

ELISI — November 13, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Opps that should read..

In the Old Testament, we see the vengeful side of God as He seeks to deliver the people from evil. When they disobey his orders and worship idols, he teaches them a lesson and then gives them the Ten Commandments by which they should live. In the New Testament, Jesus seeks to make people change for the better by preaching non-violence and forgiveness.

ELISI — November 13, 2011 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


when i was a very young child, in the 50s, people were intent on getting back to their lives after the war. we prospered. there were always those who, for whatever reason, were left at the bottom. but they were usually there because of their own choices. the government mostly stayed out of people's way, and concentrated on 'the peace dividend'...having tax monies that didn't have to go to the war effort.

during my actual generation, the 60s, we had a cold war with a very dangerous russia who was intent on destroying us. i still remember the news showing kruschev pounding his shoe on his podium screaming, 'we will bury you!!" so, the government spent a huge amount of money on military research and armament. did monies go to 'fat cats'? a case can be made for that, but the results speak for themselves: we got what we paid for.

then came carter, a person so bereft of common reason or foresight he caused me to leave the democrat party. we've never really recovered totally from what he did to the country, especially in energy, welfare and military power.

now we have a person who is the logical conclusion of carter. totally political, he's spent four years running for his next four years. he'll say anything, sell out anybody, to get votes. he uses our tax monies to buy influence. he gives interest-free loans, insures outrageous venture capital gambles, all for votes. he scares old people with outright lies, all the while smiling like he's your best bud. his latest coldly cynical attempt to purchase votes with taxpayer money is this talk of 'forgiving' student loans.

i believe that a people who depend on the government for their support, ie welfare queens, etc, are just as enslaved economically as blacks were physically. and nobody uses that to increase and cement his hold on power better than the current occupant of the white house.

i agree with you. the cabal of politics and mega-money is toxic, and our country is dying from this poisoning. but it's more...much, much more than that.

we were great. we are weak from parasites, but we can disinfect ourselves and be great again.

DeeLittle — November 13, 2011 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, no…no rewrite.

I am not qualified to answer your questions about Christianity. As a youth, I was a church goer and became a confirmed church member. As such, I am comfortable with, and empathize with, those professing Christian beliefs. For me, it is a matter of faith, which I have not enough of to truly call myself a Christian, though I frequently address God. My own belief is Pantheistic. As Spinoza addressed the issue , which can be paraphrased as: ‘there is one substance in the universe, and the substance is God’. Not the same as tree hugging, at least I don’t hug trees, but deeply spiritual. I believe that sense is innate in human beings , and has accounted for the various anthropomorphic manifestations of God through the millenia.

I will note, that I believe Christianity has too often been singled out by non-believers in the West, as fomenting death and destruction. Certainly there is truth to this, but as compared to what?

K. Marx believed that the working class existed in drugery, at the hands of the Capitalists, and survived, by their religious beliefs of a better life in the hereafter, hence ‘religion is the opiate of the people’.

> The way out of alienation is not, as Hegel and Feuerbach thought, a new philosophical interpretation of life, but a new form of earthly existence, a new society in which the material conditions for a fulfilling human life would no longer be lacking.-- The Oxford Companion to Philosophy, 1995.
> Dailectiical Materialism. The official name given to Marxist philosophy by its proponents in the Soviet Union and their affiliates elsewhere. -- Ibid.

One can argue the point, but I believe that atheism has had a far greater culpability in hidious actions, than that of theism.

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*kn: Christianity has too often been singled out by non-believers in the West, as fomenting death and destruction.*

a case can be made that those committing these atrocities were NOT christians.

the jesus i know even asked God to forgive those who nailed him to a cross. during the crusades, islam was responsible for so many christian deaths and the destruction of so many churches, that noblemen decided to ride to their support...effect, not cause.

DeeLittle — November 13, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 12:10 If we move on but stay in this human existence, I would like to be born with enough brains to do yard work when the weather is nicer! I realize there is no absolute when it comes to belief in God, but folks such as yourself, myself, etc. claim Christianity as a personal belief, without delving too much into the "what the hell???" remarks that are in scripture. It's that faith thing as mentioned in Hebrews 11:1I honestly don't know. There seems to be enough "what the hell???" moments in scripture when it comes to the nature of God. It boils down to personal revelation I suppose, which I believe in.

Occupy Portland being featured on CNN.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Continued from last week.


Dedicated to Sportyjimmy Zoichini…may your headaches be fruitful and multiply.

*The team arrives at LaGuardia. News of Neanderbasil has preceeded them. An enthusiastic crowd of New Yorkers is there to greet them, hoping to catch a glimpse of the Ice man. The crowd is ecstatic when Neanderbasil, unexpectedly, approaches the microphone and addresses them.*

Neanderbasil: Bu och tarch mo oug bot.

80% of New Yorker crowd: OHHH!

20% of New Yorker crowd: What?

Neanderbasil: Bu och tarch mo oug hobt.

80% of New Yorker crowd: AHHH!

20% of New Yorker crowd: Huh? What did he say.

Neanderbasil: Bar harb eht.

Most of the crowd erupts into enthusiastic applause.



*The team is wisked away in a motorcade to the Waldorf- Astoria. Neanderbasil looks around at the plush surroundings, and becomes even more convinced that things are terribly wrong in this new world he has entered. Soon after, the chairman of the DNC, Maxwell Alexander Ollander, who was known by his initials, stops by to see the team.*


Chairman MAO: YES! The phone at headquarters has been ringing off the hooks. Everyone wants Neanderbasil to run for president. But there’s one problem.

Professor Nailson: VHAT?

Chairman MAO: Yes. Only a natural born citizen can be president.


Chairman MAO: ME TOO! But I have a plan…

*Soon… Assistant is running for president. But everyone knows that if Assistant is elected, it will really be Neaderbasil running things. Then, at the Democrat National Convention, Neanderbasil is the featured speaker. The anticipation grows. The boisterous delegates go wild as Neanderbasil comes to the podium.*

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- Thanks for your input. A little too much 101 for me. I'm not a stranger when it comes to scripture, or various belief systems. I get the basics and then some. It's this nature, the persona of God seeming so inconsistent with regards to scripture that I'm not able to grab a hold of.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Neanderbasil: Mall cet ib.

FOX News reporter: What? I can’t understand a thing he’s saying.

CNN reporter: Here. I’ll translate for you.

Neanderbasil: Bu och tarch mo oug bot, mo oug hobt.

CNN reporter: He said ”In my time, we all worked togther. We shared everything”.

Neanderbasil: Baad och bot. Enrah bist boht uur.

CNN reporter: He said “ My band decided everything collectively. No one had more than another. True equality.”

Neanderbasil: Mo rhet mamma.

CNN reporter: He said “ We lived in harmony with Mother Nature.”

Neanderbasil: Argt nob eft. Rah hob!

CNN reporter: He said…

FOX News reporter: Yeah, Yeah. I got the picture.

*The delegates are cheering and jumping up and down in excitement, as they gyrate their signs around: “PROGRESSIVES FOR NEANDERBASIL! HE SPEAKS OUR LANGUAGE!” and; “BACK TO THE FUTURE WITH NEANDERBASIL”.*

*The poor Republicans could not find any wrongdoing in candidate Assistant’s past, to exploit. Neanderbasil, himself, had no history to exploit, nor could those Republicans understand anything, at all, that Neanderbasil said anyway. It ruined their usual game plan as they could not play dirty Republican tricks during the campaign. Assistant easliy won the election. The New York Times headline read: “ASSISTANT IN A LANDSLIDE! NEANDERBASIL’S LONG TOGA TAILS SWEEP DEMOCRATS INTO CONGRESS!”.*

*Soon, President Assistant’s new cabinet is assembled for their first meeting.*

President Assistant: What do you have in mind?

*Ilikenailinpalin lays out his plan to the cabinet.*

President Assistant: Oh… I don’t know about that. The Supreme Court might find that unacceptable. What do you think Mr. Attorney General?

Attorney General Toughasnails: Don’t worries abouts that. Me and a couple of my’s boys will explains things toos them.

President Assistant: What do you think Mr. presidential assistant.

Special presidential assistant to President Assistant, Neanderbasil: Mo dab Bop!

Secretary of State Professor Nailson: HA! Yes Mr…. assistanttothe… PRESIDENT!

Everyone: HA! AHHH… HAHAHA!!!


kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Great points. Well thought out.

I think there's a difference between having a very good social safety net for people, when economic hardships occur thru no fault of their own and a welfare state. In the political rhetoric, the line becomes blurred, and all receiving government assistance get lumped together. I'm sure there are many that cheat the system because they're basically lazy and content to live on the gov's teat, but that's not right.

Do you think there was a correlation between a growing middle class after WWII and the government having lots of money to dole out with no war to fund? Build an interstate highway system? Begin a space program?

And you're abdolutely correct, there's more to it. With corporate greed running the government, we're in deep do-do. If corporations give you a warm, fuzzy feeling, check this out from the Wall ST Journal.

As far as Obama goes, I think he sucks. After the Bush debacle, he had it all. Democratic Congress but the hope & change aura never materialized. He didn't end Iraq until the date Bush and the Republicans mandated before he was elected. Extended the tax cuts-hell, we got 4 more years of the guy we couldn't stomach anymore. But when I look at the crop the republicans are offering up, all I can do is sigh. What are ya gonna do? Newt surging? Gimme a break. Romney and/or Huntsman? With Obama setting the bar so low, I might go with the first R since Reagan's first.

mrd — November 13, 2011 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*The country becomes a sight to behold. The change is fast and furious. Ilikenailinpalin’s plans for the Republicans proves to be masterful. Soon, all the Republicans wake up one morning to find that someone has broken into their homes overnight and stamped a large letter ‘R’ on their foreheads in indelible India ink. They are too embarrassed to go outside, and soon fade into obscurity. Countries around the world are duly impressed, and Neanderbasil is asked to address the United Nations General Assembly.*

Neanderbasil: Bu och tarch mo oug bot, mo oug hobt.

General Assembly: OHHHH!!!!

Neanderbasil: Hib nack MASLOW!

General Assembly: AHHHH!!!!

Neanderbasil: Va gaat REPUBLICANS!!!!!

Russian Ambasador to the U.N., Boris Basil: HA!

Ukranian Ambassador to the U.N., the Chief: HAHA!

General Assembly: HA! AHHH… HAHAHA!

*The years have rolled on. Under the keen insights and inspiration of Neanderbasil, the world has been transformed. Then one day… tragedy strikes. The grim reaper has come for him. Professor Sven Nailson delivers a stirring eulogy at Neanderbasil’s service.*

Sven Nailson: So young. He vas, after all, ondly vun hundred taosand and sixty vun years old. Of course, most of dhat time, he was a soul on ice. Ahem, de vorld vill never see de likes of him again.

*Then, suddenly, Sven Nailson, former Secretary of State, archeologist extraordinaire and professor emeritus of the University of Wisconsin—Madison…collapses to the floor.*

Toughasnails: This ain’t goid. He loiks just like Jimmy “Da Welcher” Zoichini did, when he had that acute transmural myocardial infarction after he seen that pickle ad on the billboard.


*The call for help came into People’s Ambulance Station Number 15. Internal combustion engines had been outlawed years before, and modern vehicles relied on electic power. However, electric power was in short supply. Nuclear power plants had all been dismantled. Hydroelectric dams had all been demolished, and petroleum and natural gas drilling, and coal mining, had all been banned. The National Energy Equalization Board, did what they could to distribute the available wind and solar power, but there was never enough. Unfortunately, to make matters worse, extremist environmentalists kept blowing up the wind turbines, as it wrecked their view. And cloudy days shut down the people’s solar power generating plants in one place or another. People’s ambulance number 2, left the ambulance station, enroute to aid Professor Nailson, but ran out of power at the end of the driveway. By the time the backup bicycle ambulance reached the scene, four hours later, it was too late.*

Ilikenailinpalin: Oh no. Is so sad. But is price we pay for progress.

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Meanwhile, the two Republicans back in Siberia have been busy.*

Republican #1: Well, that was certainly a most beautiful sunrise, with the helicopter flying off into the horizon and all.

Republican #2: Yes. Now I guess we had better get to work.

Republican #1: Yes. I found a site which should make a good quarry.

Republican #2: And I found a nice, very large, rounded hilltop.

Republican #1: Good.

Republican #2: Good.

*The two Republicans are kept busy for the next several years. Their efforts have proven to be most fruitful as they have built a city from the material they have quarried. When they have finished, the two Republicans stop, and step back for a moment, to look at what they have built.*

Republican # 1: I think that is alright.

Republican #2: Yes.

Republican #1: Have you noticed that the city shines in the starlight?

Republican #2: Yes, I have. Have you noticed that the city also shines in the sunlight?

Republican #1: Yes, I have. It is a city which shines.

Republican #2: Yes, and it is on a hilltop.

Republican #1: Yes. It is a shining city upon a hill.

Republican #2: I have been wondering

Republican #1: Yes?

Republican #2: Just what kind of rock is that which we have built our shining city with?

Republican #1: Actually, it is not a rock. It is a mineral. It is the mineral called alabaster.

Republican #2: Oh. So we have built a city of alabaster?

Republican #1: Yes. It is a city of alabaster. And it is shining upon a hill.

*Word of the new city spread throughout Siberia. The Siberian’s flocked to the new city in search of a better life. Years pass.*

Republican #1: I‘ve been thinking.

Republican #2: Yes?

Republican #1: Someday, a huge asteroid may appear which slams into the Earth, and destroy all life on our planet. My statisical anaysis shows, that while unpredictable, this could happen at any time.

Republican #2: Yes. I have been thinking the same thing. Perhaps, we should do something about that.

Republican #1: Yes. Maybe we should build a rocket to intercept the derelict asteroid.

Republican #2: Yes. I think so.

Republican #1: Do you know how to build a rocket?

Republican #2: Yes. Before I was an archeologist…I was a rocket scientist at NASA.

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Republican #1: What happened?

Republican #2: Funding cuts.

Republican #1: Oh. But you can build the rocket?

Republican #2: Yes, I can build the rocket, but what I don’t know, is what to do with the asteroid once the rocket gets there.

Republican #1: I can take that one. Before I was a paleoanthropologist, I was a theoretical physicist. I’m pretty sure I can design a blast of anti-energy, that can temporarily strip the errant asteroid of it’s inertia and bounce it backwards.

Republican #2: Good. I was a little worried about that.

Republican #1: No need to worry any more.

Republican #2: Why did you stop being a theoretical physicist?

Republican #1: The union.

Republican #2: Oh?

Republican #1: Yes. The Union of Theoretical Physicists said I was too smart. They told me to slow down, I was making the rest of them look bad.

Republican #2: Oh no.

Republican #1: Yes. Then they tried to inject an alloy of mercury and lead into my brain, in an attempt to lower my I.Q. by 95 points.

Republican #2: Oh no. Then what happened?

Republican #1: I can run faster than them.

Republican #2: OK. I’ll make the rocket. You will make the anti-energy blaster. And we can hire some of the good citizens of Siberiaville to build the launchpad.

*Years pass. Then one day…*

Republican #1: Uh oh. I’ve been watching the heavens through the astronomical observatory we built.

Republican #2: And what have you seen?

Republican #1: The asteroid which we feared would one day wreak havoc, is fast approaching.

Republican#2: OHHHH NO! I better drive over to the launchpad, in the Orion III land vehicle which we invented, and tell Sergei to launch the Siberian Vl rocket.

Republican #1: Wait.

Republican #2: Yes?

Republican #1: Sergei is no longer there.

Republican #2: Oh, I forgot.

Republican #1: Yes, Sergei became fabulously wealthy as vice president in charge of sales for the artichoke and carrot blender I invented. Then he bought a magnificent yacht from your Siberian Yacht Shipyards, Inc. He set sail for a tropical paradise, in the South Pacific last year, and has not been heard from since.

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Republican #2: So who’s in charge of the launch pad now?

Republican #1: Alexi.

Republican #2: Then I better drive over to the launchpad right now, and tell Alexi to launch the rocket.

Republican #1: Wait. I will call Alexi on the hyperspace communicator which I designed and built yesterday.

Republican #2: Oh. I forgot.

*Republican #1 calls Alexi, and seconds later the two Republicans watch from a distance, as the rocket is quickly moving skyward, propelled by a fiery flame of orange.*

*Eight hundred thousand years have passed since the wayward asteroid was destroyed. The descendents of the two Republicans and of the Siberians, have long since left the orb of their origins, to go live on the planet they terraformed in the Epsilon Eridani star system. The descendents of all the others still on Earth, were successful in achievng their dream of economic justice for all. Everyone worked together and shared the fruits of their ingenuities and labors. Decisions of all manner, were collectively made and the people lived in harmony, with the good Earth. One day, the members of one of the many small bands of the happy Earthlings scattered around the world, left their cave and went out scavenging for nuts and grubs. One of them, looked up in the sky and was startled by what he saw. Then the others looked up.*

Descendent of Professor Nailson: HOLY YUMPIN’ YIMINY! VHAT’S DADT!

Descendent of Neanderbasil: AUHGG HA MACHT!



Descendent of Basil “ theCodfather” Canoli: IT’S A GIANT AIR COD! AND IT’S SWIMMING TOWARDS US REAL FAST!

Descendent of Toughasnails: I don’t knows whats it is, but these grubs sure is goid.


Everyone: OHHHHH NO!!!!!

*Yes. Another huge asteroid, had found it’s way to the small world that was once called Earth. The planet was split apart and utterly destroyed, and all of the happy family of Earth dwellers ceased to exist. Forever.*



My health is fine nailingit, but thanks for asking. (And nailingit… be sure to keep an eye out for any suspicious looking characters lurking about!

kn_dalai — November 13, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_d- Thanks for your thoughtful response.

"Not the same as tree hugging, at least I don’t hug trees, but deeply spiritual. I believe that sense is innate in human beings , and has accounted for the various anthropomorphic manifestations of God through the millenia." I relate to that. Big time. It's still that thing about correlating scripture with the persona of God.

When it comes to spirituality, and government leaders philosophies, on a personal level it's a bit inane, on a larger scale it can speak to how one would govern, but those that lay claim to Christianity never seem to honor it's core beliefs.

Another great write kn_d! Basil hasn't posted in some time. I'm starting to worry.

If you are stopping your posts to this forum, VHAT'S UP VIT DADT?!? If you don't mind me asking.

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Listen to the CAPTCHA audio thing while reading KD's posts!
Hurry! Before it becomes illegal.

(yes, i'm being humorous... maybe?)

Drift — November 13, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seriously? The End? What happened to the Republican'ts? And their offspring? Oh, and why wasn't I in there? Kidding, but seriously, why wasn't I in there?

Hate to see you go, I always enjoyed your posts, Thanks a lot.

hawkeye — November 13, 2011 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 3:23 p.m

Take the time to read what is in the link in my earlier post, it will explain far better than I can about what some see as inconsistency.

ELISI — November 13, 2011 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- LOL! Bizarre! If listened to backwards, a dark force might spring forth causing coherency and sound judgement. AHHH! It's the first time I've checked out the audio feature of captcha...very cool...somewhat disturbing...yeti so reeeel!

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the link ELISI!

nailingit — November 13, 2011 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Love your story, Kn_dalai.

Maybe others didn't see your message, but I least a message I could read out of your clever and creative story. Your writes weren't about the Republicans, the Chairman or anybody else in the political arena. I perceived your writes as one that shows no matter what happens in the world of matter who's right and who's wrong, who is ignorant and who is not...who understands the message of politicians and who doesn't... and what is happening globally in society, nature has a way of showing everyone who's boss. Nothing else matters. Life is too precious to take for granted and we all should be living each day like it's our last.

Funny how we all can come up with our own conclusion from such a story. I've shared mine, my friend.

Thanks, Kn_!!!

goldenoldie — November 14, 2011 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is a test.

Eric Stanley — June 28, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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