Open forum, Nov. 21-27

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No. 1) Head-on collision kills driver in Hockinson

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No. 5) I-5 south ramp to Fourth Plain reopens after rollover accident

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260 comments

Comments

"..advocate expansion of government past it's constitutional constraints,..." frobert — November 20, 2011 at 10:52 a.m.

You could clarify a rather muddled response there with a list of what you consider the specific instances where legislation has been passed that goes, in your opinion, "past it's [sic] constitutional constraints".

" My use of the term "liberal" "

And maybe next time you decide to use your own definition for a well established word, you could append that definition.

mr_basil_seal — November 20, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.

*mr_basil_seal — November 20, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.
Do you have a point, or have you just taken it upon yourself to question everything I post?
frobert — November 20, 2011 at 4:52 p.m*

You are making the unsupported claims. And avoiding making a cogent response.

All I'm asking is for clarification.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The so-called "super-commitee" appears to be going down in flames. Atypical for the Congress, no agreement can be reached. But maybe this is a blessing in disguise. With $1 trillion in cuts already, another trillion in automatic cuts triggered by not reaching an agreement, and the tax cut for the jillionaires certainly not to be extended, that's almost $6 trillion in defict reductions over 10 years by doing nothing, which is about all they can do anyway.

The flip side, taking that much money out of a struggling, depressed economy will probably keep it that way.

mrd — November 21, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone see the 60 Minute report on the no tax the rich agreement that has been signed by some Congress folks? That lobbyists make me sick and time to cut the money/power that some think they have off at the knees! They don't represent the best interest of all citizens, just the rich.

karma — November 21, 2011 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 6:36 a.m.

If you have a legitimate claim that my statements are false, I will support them, if you are just blowing hot air...

A quick read of the constitution will give you all the information you need to confirm my statements. It is written in plain English, for the common man to understand.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"written in plain English, for the common man to understand."*

As are the 200+ years of jurisprudence that show almost exactly the opposite of your claims.

And such little things like R. Paul's insistence on using legal tools that have been banned globally for 150 years.....

"claim that my statements are false, I will support them,"

YOU are the one making the unsupported claims. Bring your support. That you prefer to stonewall is, to some extent, support that shows 'you got nothing'.

So, let's try it again:

"..advocate expansion of government past it's constitutional constraints,..." frobert — November 20, 2011 at 10:52 a.m.

You could clarify a rather muddled response there with a list of what you consider the specific instances where legislation has been passed that goes, in your opinion, "past it's [sic] constitutional constraints".

" My use of the term "liberal" "

And maybe next time you decide to use your own definition for a well established word, you could append that definition.

mr_basil_seal — November 20, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.

mr_basil_seal — November 20, 2011 at 3:48 p.m. Do you have a point, or have you just taken it upon yourself to question everything I post? frobert — November 20, 2011 at 4:52 p.m

You are making the unsupported claims. And avoiding making a cogent response.

All I'm asking is for clarification.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 8:59 a.m

"As are the 200+ years of jurisprudence that show almost exactly the opposite of your claims."

If it was not meant to be understandable by the common man then why is legal training not required by the Constitution in order to sit on the Supreme Court?

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The OWS movement was over before it began, because they had no cohesive message.
frobert — November 18, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.*

Hmmmm, seems the OWS movement is still going strong. If not stronger; even Paul Ryan is accepting their main claim.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*If it was not meant to be understandable by the common man then why is legal training not required by the Constitution in order to sit on the Supreme Court?
frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:23 a.m.*

I'm really unclear whether it is your thinking or your writing that is more muddled....

I'm AGREEING with you that the Constitution is easy to read; AND noting that there is 200+ years of jurisprudence that is just as easy to read that DOES NOT SUPPORT your claims.

So, start over; WHAT exactly are your examples of "expansion of government past it's [sic] constitutional constraints" ( http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/14/open-forum-nov-14-20/#c202010)

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Congress kills request for National Climate Service**

By Brian Vastag, Published: November 20

At first look, the proposal is as dull, bureaucratic and routine as an agency request to Congress can be.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration wanted to reshuffle its offices to establish a National Climate Service akin to the agency’s National Weather Service. **It asked for no new funding to do so.**

But in a political climate where talk of the earthly kind of climate can be radioactive, the answer in last week’s budget deal was “no.” Congress barred NOAA from launching what the agency bills as a “one-stop shop” for climate information.

Demand for such data is skyrocketing, NOAA administrator Jane Lubchenco told Congress earlier this year. Farmers are wondering when to plant. Urban planners want to know whether groundwater will stop flowing under subdivisions. Insurance companies need climate data to help them set rates.

**But the climate service, first floated under President George W. Bush**, became predictably politicized.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/congress-nixes-national-climate-service/2011/11/18/gIQAxYvIgN_story.html

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 8:59 a.m.

"And such little things like R. Paul's insistence on using legal tools that have been banned globally for 150 years....."

Are you discussing letter of marque and reprisal?

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


morning basement. another week, another massive turkey overdose. anybody traveling?

DeeLittle — November 21, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I posted like quite awhile ago and noticed how dead the basement was. I was like, wow man, dead in the basement. And then on my fifth cup of joe it was like, wow man, it's a different week.

Anybody seen Dave?

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Are you discussing letter of marque and reprisal?
frobert — November 21, 2011 at 10:24 a.m*

Yeah, go for it.

But, don't forget:

So, start over; WHAT exactly are your examples of "expansion of government past it's [sic] constitutional constraints" ( http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/14/open-forum-nov-14-20/#c202010)

AND your failure to bring anything to support:

The OWS movement was over before it began, because they had no cohesive message. frobert — November 18, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And we could, I suppose, discuss R. Paul's rational for wanting to have been able to sign DOMA.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**An Indian “prayer of thanks”**

By Mark Anthony Rolo, November 21, 2011

This Thanksgiving, don’t call on me, as an American Indian, to offer up a prayer of thanks.

I sure wouldn’t want to offend anyone with a prayer that dredges up key events of the dark past such as the forced, deadly removal of Cherokee Indians from their eastern homelands back in 1830. From the Carolinas to Oklahoma, 15,000 Cherokee were ordered to march through snow, ice and mountains. At least, 4,000 of them died of starvation or exposure.

A prayer of thanks would be challenging should I reflect on the U.S. cavalry’s longstanding war with many Plains tribes in an effort to steal the West. The Indian Wars revealed the height of this nation’s inhumanity. In 1890, a sneak attack by the 7th Cavalry on a Lakota camp near Wounded Knee Creek in South Dakota left more than 150 men, women and children massacred.

....

Now, I could offer up a more politically correct prayer of thanks and remind my dinner party folks about a time when all was good between whites and Indians. I could trip back to Plymouth Rock, birthplace of the first Thanksgiving. I could fondly recall how the newly arrived pilgrims honored the Indians with a feast — thanks for getting them through a harsh winter of disease and death.

But that would be one short prayer, since the goodwill between whites and Indians lasted about as long as a cold turkey sandwich.

http://www.progressive.org/thanksgiving.html

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 10:39 a.m.
So, start over; WHAT exactly are your examples of "expansion of government past it's [sic] constitutional constraints" (

As my original post was concerning false conservatives, I will start with the recent reaffirmation of the words "in god we trust" in the national seal. Neoconservatives have also proposed defining marriage at the federal level, not to mention many abortion bills proposed at the federal level.

Letters of marque and reprisal are specifically authorized by the Constitution therefore no law or treaty would supersede that.

I do not agree with Ron Paul on DOMA His reasoning is, that it excludes Federal involvement in marriage laws of the States. My reasoning is no law is better then one clarifying which is already clear.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"His reasoning is, that it excludes Federal involvement in marriage laws of the States. "

Umm, is what you are trying to say really reflected in what you wrote?

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:09 a.m.

Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:09 a.m.

I did not say that I agree with him on this issue, personally I do not believe that any level of government has the authority to regulate marriage between one or more consenting adults.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 21, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.
frobert — November 21, 2011 at 11:15 a.m.

There are at least two cases where Fed law REQUIRES states to acknowledge legal actions of other states. Not to mention the Full Faith and Credit Clause

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"Letters of marque and reprisal are specifically authorized by the Constitution therefore no law or treaty would supersede that."*

I'd like to see that defended by someone who is actually an expert on the Constitution and law......

Or could show us a list of cases that support that?

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"My reasoning is no law is better then one clarifying which is already clear."

????????

Really.

??????????

What is "already clear"?

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I guess it's the frobert/basil_seal show.

Lets watch and see what's going to happen next, shall we?

hawkeye — November 21, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*frobert/basil_seal show.
Lets watch and see what's going to happen next
hawkeye — November 21, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.*

I'm guessing a non-response; then another statement that makes little sense semantically, based on a misunderstanding of some argument or discussion point.

Probably better to move on......

**Climate on Cable: The
Nature and Impact of Global
Warming Coverage on Fox
News, CNN, and MSNBC**

".. studies have found that people who reported Fox News as their primary news source held more misperceptions about the Iraq War than those who obtained their information from other sources"

" people who watched Fox News were less likely than people who don’t watch Fox to believe the Earth’s temperature has been rising and that it is caused by human activities"

http://climateshiftproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/FeldmanStudy.pdf

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Would someone be so kind and explain why the C feels the need to post the above top stories here? Those stories are for the FB folks in print?? Not the top stories here by far!!

I just don't like the phrase the basement.......this is the 'penthouse' as these forums were in place prior to their changing??

Holidays always makes for sites to have a slow down.

karma — November 21, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 11:43 a.m.

Reid v. Covert

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 21, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.

walk us through that, please.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

Treaties do not supersede the Constitution. Can you show any case that the Supreme court has ruled otherwise?

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You might want to go back to the forum that gave you that; it was a narrow ruling about a specific military court case.

Not really supporting your claim as we routinely follow international law and treaties.

Unless, it doesn't suit some imperialistic agenda of the time.

And, the issue we were / are talking about has been in force since 1856. And hasn't been brought to a U.S. court and found wanting.

Your candidate of choice wants to use something that was in the Constitution and was ruled illegal 150 years ago.

Banned world wide.

And no one, other than your candidate of choice and some other far right thinkers has proposed reinstating it.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:32 p.m.

"Your candidate of choice wants to use something that was in the Constitution and was ruled illegal 150 years ago."

Proof?

"Banned world wide."

Proof?

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Newt Gingrich: Child Labor Laws Are 'Stupid'**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/newt-gingrich-child-labor-lobbyist_n_1105178.html

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I could do a frobert and .....

but that wouldn't be the cowboy way -

So

"Your candidate of choice wants to use something that was in the Constitution and was ruled illegal 150 years ago."

*Proof?*

Letter of Marque and Reprisal was a government licence authorizing a person (known as a privateer) to attack and capture enemy vessels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_o...

1. Privateering is and remains abolished;
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/decparis.asp

*"Banned world wide."
Proof?*
http://ia600302.us.archive.org/23/items/declarationrespe00greauoft/declarationrespe00greauoft.pdf

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 1:44 p.m.

Somewhere there has to be a 'collected works' of the mind-boggingly stupid stuff said by the current crop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v;=Zmuw9js9ezE

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Or substitute pandering for "mind-boggingly stupid "

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


missed one cite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSP9Nt...

though I'm not sure this works better for the nailingit thread or the frobert one.....

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Top 0.1% Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains

Capital gains are the key ingredient of income disparity in the US– and the force behind the winner takes all mantra of our economic system. If you want even out earning power in the U.S, you have to raise the 15% capital gains tax.

Income and wealth disparities become even more absurd if we look at the top 0.1% of the nation’s earners– rather than the more common 1%. The top 0.1%– about 315,000 individuals out of 315 million– are making about half of all capital gains on the sale of shares or property after 1 year; and these capital gains make up 60% of the income made by the Forbes 400.

It’s crystal clear that the Bush tax reduction on capital gains and dividend income in 2003 was the cutting edge policy that has created the immense increase in net worth of corporate executives, Wall St. professionals and other entrepreneurs.

The reduction in the tax from 20% to 15% continued the step-by-step tradition of cutting this tax to create more wealth. It had first been reduced from 35% in 1978 at a time of stock market and economic stagnation to 28% . Again 1981, at the start of the Reagan era, it was reduced again to 20%– raised back to 28% in 1987, on the eve of the October 19 232% crash in the market. In 1997 Clinton agreed to reduce it back to 20%, which move was an inducement for the explosion of hedge funds and private equity firms– the most “rapidly rising cohort within the top 1 per cent.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2011/11/20/the-top-0-1-of-the-nation-earn-half-of-all-capital-gains/

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 1:50 p.m.

First of all, the treaty you mentioned only covers legitimate business operating under an enemy flag. The letter that was proposed by Paul, covered a criminal enterprise therefore it is not covered under the treaty.

Second the United States never signed on to the treaty of Paris, and as you already know "international law" only covers nations that have signed on to the applicable treaty.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The fight over a potential recall of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) took a dark twist over the past week, as anti-Walker activists reported receiving **death threats** and having items stolen from their properties.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/scott-walker-recall-threats_n_1105115.html?ref=politics

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*First of all, the treaty you mentioned only covers legitimate business operating under an enemy flag.
frobert — November 21, 2011 at 2:44 p.m.*

A rather odd interpretation that I'm not terribly sure could be found anywhere else but on this forum. Of course, if you have something.....

Tell us more about R. Paul and the "criminal enterprise".

Don't forget we did agree to the Paris Declaration both during the Civil War and the Spanish American War as well as Hague Convention IV (1907)

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- The more "stupid stuff" Republican candidates talk about, the higher their poll numbers jump. This is amazing! Although when one considers the Republican ticket in 08' it makes it somewhat plausible.

I think Perry will get another strong look or two. This is all about the God thing. If Mitt claimed to be evangelical Christian like the others, this contest would be over. It doesn't matter to most GOP voters that Perry lacks morals, brains, wit, knowledge, and ethics. Think George Bush.

Abortion, gays and tax cuts. It seems to be all they care about.

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit;well, you nailed it. Not much else one can say about the Republican candidates and most of their votes. Gives the real financial conservatives a bad name.
Fro/Basil-we understand that you have a difference of opinion about the Constitution. We knew it 2 months ago. Give it a rest. Fro wants barely any federal government, decides the original constitution from way back then is plenty, Basil quotes studies and law. and back to the beginning. and repeat.and repeat. and repeat. Now we are on to pirates??

luvithere — November 21, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


See none of those top stories pertain to what is talked about here. Luvithere has the top stories!!

karma — November 21, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why thanks Karma. I knows how to reads!

luvithere — November 21, 2011 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*If Mitt claimed to be evangelical Christian like the others, this contest would be over.*

I wonder if it would bother the constituents if he changed his position......

*decides the original constitution from way back then is plenty*

I don't think we know what frobert considers 'original'.

*" Now we are on to pirates??"*

Well, technically, privateers. But, yes, that seems to be R.P's 'solution'. Or something. I've listened to that vid a couple of times and it starts sounding like Bachmann / Newt type pronouncements.

"The more "stupid stuff" Republican candidates talk about, the higher their poll numbers jump."

What would be interesting is to look at a graph / timeline showing announcement of candidacy and important speeches/pronouncements, media coverage, and polling.

Nate Silverman gets pretty wonky, but provides solid data in the course of developing his position; give http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/nate-silver-handicaps-2012-election.html?_r=1

and

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/reads-reactions-14/

a read.

mr_basil_seal — November 21, 2011 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 2:50 p.m

I really hope Walker gets shown the door.

hawkeye — November 21, 2011 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- LOL!

"I wonder if it would bother the constituents if he changed his position......"

I needed that! It would be interesting as to what denomination he would 'cling' onto. I suppose it would be donor driven and acceptable to the Bagger movement...hmmm...let me think...

By jove I've got it!

""The W.E.I.R.D. for Christ Creative Ministry serves God through puppetry, clowning, gospel illustrations, object lessons, ballooning, sculpting, and story-telling.""

http://westernmeadowsbaptist.com/ministries.php?id=217&

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


All the GOP contenders would maintain a level of congruency attending this church. :))

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- Since a crime is alleged to have taken place, maybe a criminal investigation will turn up something unexpected. Walker represents this 21st century Republicanry well.

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good evening, Forum friends.

What a day with the Super Committee admitting failure and Newt wanting to put poor children to work as janitors in schools! Thanks for the link, nailingit.

Can you imagine how they would feel, watching their more fortunate peers playing sports and enjoying other extracurricular activities while they push a mop over the worn linoleum floors? Is this guy nuts or what?

Sometimes I think I am in the throes of a bad dream. Hell, nightmare.

President Obama has promised to veto any bills that Congress passes to circumvent the automatic budget cuts forced by the failure of the Super Committee. That will get them all riled up again.

karma: The "basement" was an nickname we embraced when the FB comments became the favorite child. We were thrown down the coal shoot with the orphaned urchins, so-to-speak. Now I think it is a badge of honor. When I want to comment about an article that is not available to us lowlifes, I usually cut and paste the link.

DeeLittle: I am staying put for Thanksgiving. How about you?
Hope you have a good one!

My very best to you all, in fact.

manthou — November 21, 2011 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hello basement! I was just curious if any of you read the article regarding Deputy Owens posted on Saturday. If so, what are your thoughts?

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:18 p.m.

The United States constitution requires equal protection under the law, the Washington state constitution specifically prohibits a protected class. This needs to be handled in the same way as it would if the same thing happened to a private citizen. I have a feeling if a private citizens child shot themselves with their handgun the parent would be in jail, not getting a years paid vacation.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


VPD concluded that the shooting was accidental. The real tragedy is what they did to their 11 year old daughter. Did you read the on-line report?

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Let me re-phrase that. The second tragedy is what they did to their daughter. The first being the loss of their son due to negligence is absolutely sickening but to then blame their own negligence on their daughter is just unbelievable.

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wookser: I did read the report. It was heartbreaking. I think CPS stepped in to protect the 11 year old daughter from further emotional abuse and isolation. Grief can wreak havoc on families but I am at a loss to explain the adult behavior. I wish them healing. This was a deep tragedy all the way around.

manthou — November 21, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:36 p.m.

Many parents are charged with criminal conduct when they leave a loaded firearm available to children. If it was not a police officer the parent would have been charged.

What the parents did afterwards was also criminal and if a civilian tried to intimidate a witness for a crime that happened in this state, I don't think the police would say there was a jurisdictional issue.

What happened was unconscionable and these parents should face prosecution for both indecents the same as anyone else. Normally I would say they are innocent until being proved guilty, but being a police officer they will never be charged with anything.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


After she was falsly checked into a psychiatric ward, the doctor's, police and CPS did not want her released back to the parents. It's unfortunate that they drove her to the airport and continued the abuse prior to shipping her off. The daughter will always carry these scars. I hope she can move on from this someday. To be told that she killed her brother is horrific.

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree Frobert. The PA decides who is charged, not the Sheriff. I think CCSO has done a great job in the report that was completed.

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If a police officer would try to extract a false admission of guilt from his own step daughter, an innocent little girl who relies on him for protection, what has he done with accused citizens under his authority?

Coward. Monster.

manthou — November 21, 2011 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - I agree completely! If he would do this to his own family, what could he do with the public. He can never be trusted to be a LEO. The comments made by their friends that are defending the actions of him and his wife are also sickening.

Woosker — November 21, 2011 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker: People often defend loved one who have committed heinous acts, don't they? I think it is all part of a long process. Coming to grips with the horrible truth takes time. I will bet that some of these people will change their tune as they are confronted with more information.

manthou — November 21, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Local Republicans assail call for tax hike**

"This is no time to raise taxes, local Republican lawmakers said Monday, reacting predictably to Gov. Chris Gregoire’s proposal to ask voters for a temporary half-cent increase in the state sales tax."

"Democrats offered more nuanced responses, welcoming the prospect of new revenue but declining to embrace Gregoire’s specific proposals for budget cuts, new revenue and restored programs."

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/no...

Update on the C. I am really disappointed in those that deem corporate welfare to be more important than education. Talk about dumbing down the masses. This is just absurd. Republicans that post in here, do you agree? If so please articulate your message to those thousands of seniors who will lose vital benefits affecting their quality of life. Education cuts that will stunt our kids development and inadequately prepare them for future employment. Special needs, advanced programs, come on folks. Have a heart!

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For half a penny.

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's troubling how often cops are touted as hero's rather than very well paid public servants that are working their chosen profession. First responders put themselves in a position of performing acts of heroism, as a result perform tasks that are supposed to, and often do, protect and serve the community at large. A lot of cops I'm sure are nice people with a strong set of values. A lot of cops I'm sure are pigs that abuse the public trust and crap on anybody they please, to include family. LEO's should be held to a higher standard than the public's safety they are entrusted with. LEO's should be outfitted with video/audio devices that monitor their every move while on duty. Each cop to include the chief of police should be drug tested no less than 30 times a year, narcs 50. Abuse the public trust and you go to jail with those you have abused. The campus pigs that pepper sprayed the kids at UC Davis should be ...... anyway! :)) Peace.

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 7:47 p.m

You know what? Jack it up a whole penny and cut the time in half.

hawkeye — November 21, 2011 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sounds good to me hawkeye. Sometimes I forget we have a Democrat in the Governor's chair. Sometimes I'm not sure and have to check her website for possible party abandonment. Sometimes I forget what day it is. We need leaders with a strong unrelenting voice when it comes to corporate welfare vs health & education. Man, we are considering shutting down a prison and freeing convicts so they can come here and "prey", screwing the disabled, slamming education, onandonandon.

BTW Patty if you read this you are doing what the people want you to do. Hang tough.

AND Jaime if you read this the night is young!

AND anyone that voted for a Republican in the last 11 years not to include the last three may redeem themselves by staying home or voting straight party Dem next year. Those that voted for a Republican within the last three years most likely will die a horrible death, destined to suffer cruel and unusual pain & punishment for all eternity in Hell. Having said that, it would still behoove these said same repubs to vote in their children's best interest which would not involve the GOP.

Amen :))

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Patty if you are reading this remember your partisan vote on the epinephrine inhalers is going to kill poor people. Then again I guess they don't contribute to your campaign, do they?

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, vote straight democrat for more war, more bailouts and more corporate welfare. Yea that ought to make things better.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, if I had spent my afternoon in a losing argument, I'd be a little testy also.

How's it goin' fro?

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 9:21 p.m.

If you can provide the proof that basil couldn't go for it.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Providing proof is one thing. What one chooses to do with that provision, to include a need to provide that provision with provisional division rooted in a politically divisive political structure such as the GOP, is another.

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I find it a great amusement to watch all of you change your opinion when a (d) follows the war criminals name.

frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I find it a great amusement*

A rather odd interpertation of 'amusement' don't you think?

*to watch all of you change your opinion*

I don't think we understand what frobert considers as being 'change'.

*the war criminals name.*

Care to walk us through your normative jurisprudence assessments and support your claim?

But only if your mobility wasn't hampered too much this afternoon.

:)))))

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 10:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Fox News Viewers Know Less Than People Who Don't Watch Any News: Study**

"Because of the controls for partisanship, we know these results are not just driven by Republicans or other groups being more likely to watch Fox News. Rather, the results show us that there is something about watching Fox News that leads people to do worse on these questions than those who don’t watch any news at all."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 10:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**David Frum: Fox News Blacklisted Me Following Rush Limbaugh Criticisms**

"Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/david-frum-fox-news-rush-limbaugh-criticisms_n_1105000.html

nailingit — November 21, 2011 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 21, 2011 at 9:11 p.m.

Remind us again about what you are talking about.

Include some actual resources.

Specifically, the ones that discuss why that one company - with umpteen years to reformulate their product - made a choice not to.

Oh, don't forget:

"My reasoning is no law is better then one clarifying which is already clear."

????????

Really.

??????????

What is "already clear"?

AND

WHAT exactly are your examples of "expansion of government past it's [sic] constitutional constraints" ( http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/14/open-forum-nov-14-20/#c202010)

AND your failure to bring anything to support:

The OWS movement was over before it began, because they had no cohesive message. frobert — November 18, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 2:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 2:27 a.m.

Asking the same answered question over and over does not make your failed argument any stronger.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 2:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 2:27 a.m.

I'm still waiting for proof of your claim that a treaty can supersede the Constitution.

Still waiting on proof that the United States even signed on to the aforementioned treaty.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 2:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Newt Gingrich: Congressional Budget Office Is 'A Reactionary Socialist Institution'**

"Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former CBO director and Republican, called the Gingrich allegation 'ludicrous.'"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/newt-gingrich-congressional-budget-office_n_1106869.html

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Sarah Palin Got Scolded by Roger Ailes for Not Announcing Her Non-Candidacy on Fox News**

"Sarah Palin's announcement that she wouldn't run for president disappointed her legions of admirers — but it infuriated Roger Ailes."

"Ailes was so mad, he considered pulling her off the air entirely until her $1 million annual contract expires in 2013."

**"I paid her for two years to make this announcement on my network,"**

"Part of her appeal as a pundit was that every appearance on the network was turbocharged by the "will-she-or-won't-she run" speculation."

"Ailes was furious with Palin's move and that she was at risk of being "benched." Fox still had to pay her, but they didn't have to give her airtime."

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/11/sarah-palin-scolded-furious-roger-ailes-foxnews.html

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 6:53 a.m.

A vote for Gingrich is like a vote for Obama. Even if every democrat in the country decided to sit the election out I doubt that Newt would win the general election.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree fro. That's why I'm endorsing Newt Leroy Gingrich as the Republican nominee!

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, thanks for explaining it's a term here by folks here. I have been screaming about the labeling that the C does and was in hopes this wasn't another one. I find interesting information here and glad to find it. I hate the FB stuff...

Woosker, it's just a shame but again I know how folks are used in this place and some folks feel they are above the laws due to their connection to the men in the brown. Those that wear the uniforms, are sworn to protect, should live by a higher standard and we are seeing plenty that use their positions. So the question here is why is this officer on paid leave if he violated policies? Did the Sheriff's report being released prior to what one neighbor states, the facts that these safes were malfunctioning try to sway the citizens? Again I know how things are done here!! Ya know the person that tells their story first gets it out to the public their way?? Was the Columbian used? I still have lots of questions on this as some of this doesn't add up?

karma — November 22, 2011 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


karma — November 22, 2011 at 7:41 a.m.

If the safe was malfunctioning it is irrelevant, when you lock up anything you check to make sure it won't open before you walk away.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma- The Sheriff's office can't legally fire someone until their investigation is complete. Once it's complete, they then proceed with discipline. My understanding is that the SO could not even start the investigation until both Multnomah County and Clark County PA's office decided if they would or would not charge him with a crime. That process took over 6 months. Once that was completed, the IA started the investigation which took another few months. If you read the on-line report, you will see part of the actual testimony with Deputy Owens in which both he and his wife state that they were having problems with the safe. Then in another section he claims that his step-daughter opened the safe and gave access to the little boy. I don't think the Columbian was used. They are just reporting on the completed IA investigation that was just released. Deputy Owen absolutely used his knowledge and position to falsly have his step-daughter admitted into the psychiatric hospital. It's disgusting. Read the testimony of his fellow officers that is in the report. Sickening.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If the safe was malfunctioning it is irrelevant, when you lock up anything you check to make sure it won't open before you walk away.

frobert

I could not agree more.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma - An important thing to keep in mind is that the SO is not investigating the safe or the shooting. Vancouver police did that and ruled it an accident. What is being investigated in the Internal Affairs report is Deputy Owens treatment of his 11 year old step-daughter. Read through the on-line report. It's really sad what they did to this litle girl. Can you imagine being blamed for the shooting death of your brother when the parents are the ones who should have made sure the gun was secure? This is the kind of behavior that officers are suppose to protect people against. He turned a tragedy into an atrocity.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


karma, one of the basement regulars asked a few months ago if we had a list of the most-read stories on the website each week. I also think they asked us to post the list here.

Matt Wastradowski — November 22, 2011 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- If I may pick your libertarian leaning mind for a sec. Considering the main "theme" if you will, of Libertarian dogma is to bring rule of law to the states and diminish/destroy the Fed, what is your position on gun ownership?

Should the Fed stay out and let the states decide?

Would you put qualifying factors in place when it comes to the type of weapon and ammo. i.e. fully auto, flame throwers, rocket launchers etc. teflon ammo, poisoned tipped darts, etc.

Would you limit the number of weapons/firearms one American could own?

Would fully functioning private tanks be permitted to traverse and command state laws to accommodate them if the voters approved a "blow-crap-up" initiative. i.e. the widening and strengthening of roads as long as the votes were produced from that state to allow it.

IYO, what should the age requirements be to own a gun?

Given that in the 'Libertarian world', the Fed stays out of marriage. If you live in a state that allows multiple partners and non-existent laws governing parenting, who is culpable when a child harms others or themselves?

You believe we should abolish the ATF. Wouldn't that produce mini-ATF's across states?

Or would it produce states that have laws completely different from those that border it? i.e. Texas says it's okay to have duels in the streets like in the wild west days, and New Mexico it's a prosecutable felony.

A few questions of mine concerning the Libertarian mindset, and yours in particular. If you don't mind, would you speak to each talking point?

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Morning Matt.

Anyone that cares, 'Now' with Alex Wagner on MSNBC @ 9:00 is one of the best political shows on the tube and it's only a week old. Katrina Van Heuvel came close to putting Mort Zuckerman in cardiac arrest. :))

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Prez is 'live' MSNBC.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Asking the same answered question over and over does not make your failed argument any stronger.
frobert — November 22, 2011 at 2:53 a.m.*

I wouldn't have to ask "over and over" of you had "answered question"?

Btw - my repeated questioning isn't an effort to prove my point.

It is to note that you haven't answered the questions;

So, here we go again: ( and yes, the list gets longer. Has something to do with you trying to change subjects rather than respond.)

Specifically, the ones that discuss why that one company - with umpteen years to reformulate their product - made a choice not to.

Oh, don't forget:

"My reasoning is no law is better then one clarifying which is already clear."

????????

Really.

??????????

What is "already clear"?

AND

WHAT exactly are your examples of "expansion of government past it's [sic] constitutional constraints" ( http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/14/open-forum-nov-14-20/#c202010)

AND your failure to bring anything to support:

The OWS movement was over before it began, because they had no cohesive message. frobert — November 18, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Matt, so it just takes one suggestion.....how about removal? I went around with Libby yesterday in the rankings when this first appeared up top.....now folks have the 2 and 2, as to who, if they hadn't guess already? What is talked about here is not what is of concerned here unless someone posts a link?

forbert, I totally agree with your statement, " If the safe was malfunctioning it is irrelevant, when you lock up anything you check to make sure it won't open before you walk away." Also the fact that they did nothing if this safe had malfunctioned, it's his responsibility to get it back to the PO folks there at the SO so they can replace it. Those on neighbors on the FB site are not getting all the concerns that some of us have raised. 'Can be mad to malfuntion,' is the abuse of a product and isn't covered under any warrenty?
If only one officer is saying these malfunctioned, that would make for some serious concerns about this officer? But again is one reads the report those concerns are already there. Aren't they to also lock up their tassers?
There are some bad officers and there are some good officers that will go beyond their duty to help if they see a wrong to let folks know what they face. There are some that will just follow orders blindly to push others agendas too? And write letters to the editors to cover their back sides.

I have problems with the VPD investigation of one of the Clark County own when it comes to crime. They all work closely and I feel this might come back to bite someone? I know different agencies but again they do back up each other in the time of need. I understand the IA process but again it's investigation of one so close?? We have see how this has costed agencies in the past here?

karma — November 22, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And fro, given that I'm of a liberal progressive mindset, it only follows that I'm tolerant, understanding, compassionate, forward thinking and above all, gentlemanly. :)) Please respond to mr_basil_seal before I. As he had concerns/questions about/for you before I did. Thanks.

mr_basil_seal-_ - Please forgive me for seemingly pushing to the front of the line.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:13 a.m.

The right to keep and bear arms is an enumerated right therefore by and through the fourteenth amendment the States are prohibited from infringing also.

Qualifying factors, such type and ammo should only exist when the state has an overriding factor. No the states need to control the people is not an overriding factor, in fact any weapon available to police should be available to the public under equal protection.

The number of weapons that anyone owns is no body's business but there own.

There are no laws against civilians owning tanks, they are not and should not be allowed on public roads.

Age of majority should be fixed by the state, having one for Alcohol, one for marriage, one for capitol punishment and so on is ridiculous. Set an age of majority, then a person can own a firearm, get married and enjoy all the rights and responsibilities of adulthood. The parent is responsible prior to that date, the offspring is responsible afterwards.

Why would a state level ATF be needed? Current states systems enforce their firearms regulations now.

We already have wildly differing laws in adjoining states, why do you try to make this policy sound like anarchy? Now the laws of the state you are visiting. Possession of an ounce of marijuana in Alaska, is not a violation of state law, in Florida it is a felony.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:32 a.m.

I have responded over and over to basil's questions, he on the other hand has refused to support his claim. At least in the short term he has become a grey bar on my screen.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The only way obama can lose the election is if he doesn't run. As much as I detest the man, we will be stuck with him for another term. He has enough deadbeats on his side now to defeat any of the Republican candidates, which are an embarrassing bunch of wannabes. If there is anything left of the country after obama leaves office, only then, will we have a chance to save it. An interesting opinion from a friend of mine. The Chinese backed Clinton's elections so they could get NAFTA and other favors. It worked. Now the Muslims are helping elect obama so they will get special favors. We know this will happen, as it already is. My friend then thinks, unless something unusual happens, a woman will follow obama and within a few years this country will be under military rule. You may laugh, but he has an excellent chance of being correct. There are so many ignorant voters depending on the government teat to survive, they will be led around like a bunch of sheep. Just promise them anything and they will believe it. Their ignorance will end up costing them their freedom. A bit of advice to you middle age and younger people. Forget about learning Spanish, learn to speak Chinese. You'll be glad you did. That way you will be able to understand what your master wants you, his slave, to do.

cranky — November 22, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*mr_basil_seal-_ - Please forgive me for seemingly pushing to the front of the line.
nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:32 a.m.*

Since frobert has decided 'ignore', I'm quite happy that you jumped in.

At least, 'til he 'gray bars' you, he has no excuse for not responding to fair questions about his thinking.

feel free to copy paste the previous queries.

Or ask him where he responded; there's a handy permalink with each post.

Though it seems from a cursory reading that he's decided to yet again switch subjects rather than answer questions.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Given that in the 'Libertarian world', the Fed stays out of marriage. If you live in a state that allows multiple partners and non-existent laws governing parenting, who is culpable when a child harms others or themselves? This might be better answered by Genevieve. I remember she is an advocate for pluralities in marriage. (Genevieve, please don't yell at me if I was to simplistic. :)) )

Thanks for the response fro. Enumerated rights delve into grey matter more than matters gray.

"...weapon available to police should be available to the public under equal protection."

Really? Should we take the big guns away from the cops? (maybe :)) I don't think most Americans would want their neighbors to have the capability of blowing up airplanes, fully auto weaponry etc. Yes the laws do vary quite a bit now...that's what makes it scary.

http://boingboing.net/2011/09/26/in-60-minutes-feature-on-nypd-anti-terror-arsenal-top-cop-claims-police-can-take-down-a-plane.html

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Collected Poems of Willard Mitt Romney
—By Tim Murphy

I saw the young man over there with eggs Benedict,

With hollandaise sauce.

And I was going to suggest to you that you serve your eggs—

With hollandaise sauce in hubcaps.

Because there’s no plates like chrome—

For the hollandaise.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/collected-poems-willard-mitt-romney

I'll bet we could do as well as Tim with some of the other candidates.....

Now frobert is going to be sorry he gray barred me.....

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma - Just to add a little more here. The gun in question was not Officer Owen's duty gun. His son got ahold of his personal gun that he says he was storing in the department safe. In the report, Deputy Owens states that he never leaves his guns out of the safe and that the safe malfunctioned.. Later in the report, he admits that he had another gun - in addition to the gun in question - that was left out and was sitting on top of the refrigerator that night. Later again, he states that his step-daughter opened the safe for his son- so which is it?

Regarding VPD investigating. The Sheriff's office would not want to investigate this type of incident involving one of their own deputies. This is the reason Battle Ground and VPD took over.

When it comes to the Internal Affairs investigations. That is completed by the SO. They are not investigating the shooting, they are investigating whether or not this Deputy violated the SO department policy with regard to his actions involving his step-daughter.

Many other SO deputies involved had very negative things to say about Deputy Owens in regards to his cruel actions against his step-daughter. One of the Deputies that testified was a close friend. I don't see any conspiracy or cover up by the SO. Read the on-line report, it's all there.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro...graybar? A libertarian ta boot?

"At least in the short term he has become a grey bar on my screen."

Why? Please explain as I find this quite curious. Punishment? Abandonment issues? A penchant for self-flagellation compounded with anticipatory coping applications?

Why censor?

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 11:13 a.m

That was just sad.

Hey Woosker, nice to see you again. I would have said Hi before but I have been really busy with lots of stuff. Had to put the C on the back burner a little.

Have a great Turkey day, everybody.

hawkeye — November 22, 2011 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Love in the air? :))

And a very happy thanksgiving to you and yours hawkeye.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Hawkeye! Nice to see you again too. You too Nailingit! I know what you mean Hawk, sometimes life is too busy. I have not been on the C for a while but it's nice to see you are all still here.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/22/opinion/huntsman-foreign-policy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

why is Newt up on this guy? I think the GOP wants to lose.

mrd — November 22, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — November 22, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.

Nate Silverman gives some pretty compelling evidence that the R's will come to their senses
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/nate-silver-handicaps-2012-election.html?_r=1

and

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/03/magazine/538-gdp-election-calculator.html?ref=magazine

At this point, I'm thinking the teabagging contingent is all aflutter and are taking it out on their version of the establishment.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:23 a.m

The questions he is repeatedly asking have been answered, he perfectly comprehends the answers. Continuing to answer the same questions not only adds nothing to this forum and actually detracts. In all fairness to the other posters on here, I was given no choice. I have no intention of permanent blocking anybody and I never have, but perpetuating a stagnant argument serves no purpose.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now that we are in the midst of a driving rain storm has anyone seen a street sweeper on there streets in the last few weeks to pick up leaves that are now clogging many of the streets. All summer long there were out in our neigborhood every week it seemed and now I haven't seen them in over a month when there needed most. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this ...

In addition i'm so frustrated with our government. There is no leadership, no one working to get both parties together and get things figured out. This current regiem is as far out of touch as is the republicons are... There will be no way I will vote for Obama, but who can really win on the R side...As far as our current givenor, I can't wait till she is out of office. She will go down as one of our worst governors of all time.. I doubt she can balance her own check book. Mad as heck at all of our politicians and tired of there BS and political rhetoric...

vanwadreamer — November 22, 2011 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"You too Nailingit!".... and you also Woosker! The issue you took time to comment on speaks to your character and compassionate values. Thanks for bringing this police/tragedy incident to the basement.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer @12:06pm

I was beginning to think the same thing (part of Vancouver's cost cutting measures). But I saw the sweeper last week in the Burton Area and believe it or not, it is moving through our neighborhood right now, Garrison Heights, behind SW Med Cntr.

pdxtech91 — November 22, 2011 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailing it:

*The questions he is repeatedly asking have been answered, he perfectly comprehends the answers.*

Then it would be no problem citing with a Columbian forum permalink where that happened.

*Continuing to answer the same questions not only adds nothing to this forum and actually detracts.*

Then citing with a Columbian forum permalink where that happened would end asking the question and we could move the discussion forward,

*In all fairness to the other posters on here, I was given no choice. I have no intention of permanent blocking anybody and I never have, but perpetuating a stagnant argument serves no purpose.*

Then citing with a Columbian forum permalink where frobert actually responded to the questions would end asking the questions again and we could move the discussion forward.

Does frobert need a refresher?

They are at http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/21/open-forum-nov-21-27/#c202135

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


When I was pre-pubescent, I thought a liaison was a woman that enjoyed like gendered qualities! :))

fro- Here is a refresher!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/21/open-forum-nov-21-27/#c202135

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger sure hasn't posted for awhile.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker, the scene should of been secured and Portland should of been the agency to investigate. Again these agencies here work close with each other and are called in when they need back up so they know each other. They are called in to back up Portland so why not have them return the favor??

It just boggles the mind if the safe is "know to malfunction" as some have stated or as he stated it wasn't return ASAP but used? Is that really protecting one's family? I had read other items were not under secured per the policies. It's a shame that some of his co-workers didn't address their concerns about him sooner, maybe his son would be alive? If there is a problem with one of their own, it's time some should be able to whistle blow and not feel they could loose their jobs?

karma — November 22, 2011 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer, November the 4th, we were blessed by the street sweeper. I take my 2~100 foot cords and blow out our little street and circle a few times a month. In the fall it's twice a week. Beings that we live at the end of the circle and knew we were going to see a lot of rain today I tried to blow as many leaves back into folks' yards. You see we at the end of the circle have few trees and with the west wind we get all the leaves down our way. My recycle bin is so full of others leaves I don't have room much of the time for my own items. The pine and leaf mold is so thick this year, we are seeing rivers of green mold.
Call the county's 78 street maintenance yard or the Public works for the City if you need a sweeper.

karma — November 22, 2011 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit - Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot. :o)

Karma - I know it may not seem true but VPD & CCSO work pretty independent of each other. The 2 detectives that were put in charge by VPD have a reputation of excellence.

Regarding the safe. I have not heard of any other officers that have had this problem with these safes. From my understanding, I don't know of any other Deputies that knew of this problem. I have heard that most are disgusted with his actions regarding trying to place the blame on his step-daughter and never want to work with him again. My opinion is that if he could treat his daughter this way, how could he be trusted with the public?

Who is to say that the safe malfunctioned? We assume that's true because Owen's says so. Perhaps it was sitting on top of the safe. Who is to say that he didn't leave it out as he did his other firearm? We are taking the word of a Deputy that had his daughter placed in a psychiatric hospital with false information, refused to have any contact with her for months until he was about to ship her off to another state. He didn't let her leave without verbally abusing her, stealing her personal items such as family contact information, money, dvd's, etc, watched as his wife hit her, threatened to ship her to foster care, told her she was a product of a rape and said we never want to see you again. All in an attempt to get a false confession from her. All of this is in the on-line report. When IA asked if she was still her daughter and if he still loves her, he replies "NO" He then says that he did all of this because she is sick and he wants the best for her. He is deeply disturbed as is his wife.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wooksker, They may work independent as some of us know but again there is those out there that feel more should of been done? If you read the FB accounts and those sticking up of these folks you will see the video link as to how this can malfunction. I'm awaiting to hear what their attorney has to say for their side.

Ya know the IA report was done in house.......no further investigation. OR's county refused to file the charges that were requested, why? But again there is history of problems with law enforcement of this area? I'm not taking sides here as I have had my run in with the local folks and the stories I can tell ya start up at the top!!

Safe malfunctions, not all products are reliable but again this officer didn't return it in a timely manner and should take the blame for his part of not doing so. Check again with the local enforcement on your statement of no others have had problems. I asked how many other agencies used this type of safe, still got no solid answer. Now you state that you know of no other deputy had problems??

karma — November 22, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Mitt Romney: Kelly Ayotte, New Hampshire Senator, Could Be Potential Running Mate In 2012**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/mitt-romney-kelly-ayotte_n_1108125.html

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Fox News Anchor: Pepper Spray is “Essentially a Food Product”**
BY LINDSAY BEYERSTEIN

Kelly speculated that the pepper spray must have been somehow diluted because the students didn't scream and writhe enough.

Asked to explain what this pepper spray stuff is, and why these kids are just a bunch of whiners, Kelly replied, "It's like a derivative of actual pepper. It's a food product, essentially."

http://www.inthesetimes.com/duly-noted/entry/12329/fox_news_anchor_pepper_spray_is_essentially_a_food_product/

So, wonder how long it'll be before we see someone here use that......

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma - What more do you feel should have been done? If they knew about the problem, then I would agree with you. If the SO did not, what could they have done? I'm not saying it's not possible that the safe malfunctioned but I'm also not convinced that it did. The reason I question this is due to Owens words. His immediate statements to police say he knew there were problems, His statement to IA a year later says he never knew. Another statement he made to IA says that his step-daughter opened the safe. He lacks consistancy to say the least.

IA reports are always done in house. The purpose was to see if his behavior regarding his daughter violated mandatory ethical standards so I'm not sure what is suspicious about that. I appreciate that the SO did not attempt to cover for one of their own. That is the typical complaint that the public has but it did not happen here.

The charges that the Oregon PA were looking at were in regards to his behavior regarding his daughter. It had nothing to do with the safe. My understanding is that the PA was not sure if they would win the case based on the available evidence. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for a PA to reject a case if they don't think it's a slam dunk. This is a different issue than what the IA investigation concluded. The internal question was did Owens behavior violate our ethics policy? Was he honest in his interview? To that, they found he did violate the ethics mandate and was not honest in the investigation.

I do not know of any other officers in this area that have had a similiar problem. If there has been this problem, I'm certain it will come out when the Owens file the lawsuit that the friends on the FB side has discussed.

I don't know if every agency uses the same safes.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker, thank you for your take on this and we all will have to see what the Owens' attorney states.

karma — November 22, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"What happened at UC Davis was the inevitable result of our failure to make sure our government stayed in the business of defending our principles. When we stopped insisting on that relationship with our government, they became something separate from us."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/uc-davis-pepper-spray-incident-reveals-weakness-up-top-20111122#ixzz1eTvLsX8D

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"All that tricked-up military gear, with that corny, faux-menacing, over-the-top Spaceballs stormtrooper look that police everywhere seem to favor more and more – all of this is symbolic of the increasingly total lack of ideas behind all that force."

"It was bad enough when we made police defend the use of torture and extrajudicial detention. Now they’re being asked to defend mass theft, Lloyd Blankfein’s bailout-paid bonus, the principle of Angelo Mozilo not doing jail time, and 28% credit card interest rates."

"How strong can anyone defending those causes be? These people are weak and pathetic, and they’re getting weaker. And boy, are they showing it. Way to gear up with combat helmets and the submachine guns, fellas, to take on a bunch of co-eds sitting Indian-style on a campus quad. Maybe after work you can go break up a game of duck-duck-goose at the local Chuck E Cheese. I’d bring the APC for that one.

Bravo to those kids who hung in there and took it. And bravo for standing up and showing everyone what real strength is. There is no strength without principle. You have it. They lost it. It’s as simple as that.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/uc-davis-pepper-spray-incident-reveals-weakness-up-top-20111122#ixzz1eTxKbDye

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They should have just moved the protesters if they needed to. To stand there and spray them like that is just ridiculous. The Portland police managed thousands of people without spraying them. That should be a very last resort for personal protection.

Woosker — November 22, 2011 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Watching The Ed Show right now and he is interviewing a police officer from Madison WI. There was no such police violence shown against the protesters who occupied the government building in Madison for so long, even after they were forced to leave.

What's up with those UC cops? At Cal, they poked the kids with their clubs and at Davis, the pepper spray! It is so difficult to watch.

manthou — November 22, 2011 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I see the C has posted the big story I read on The O this afteroon: Gov Kitzhaber is stopping all executions in Oregon for the duration of his time in office.

Good call. I am impressed with his courage and conviction.

In 2008, I remember the Washington state prison physician, Marc Stern, quit his position, declaring executions are unethical:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008556311_webexecution24.html

manthou — November 22, 2011 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 4:06 p.m.

Well Losingit, I'll bet that video really brought back some visions for you. The tie dye, worn out bell bottoms with the shredded knees, peace medallion (I really like that "shame on you" thing.) That is, if your memory survived all of that :(

BTW. Goldman paid back their bailout money quit some time ago. Bonuses, while however outrageous they may seem to most of us, was not from the taxpayers. Not like your Leftist rag would have its readers believe.

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Well Losingit, I'll bet that video really brought back some visions for you."

Thanks for your concern, but I haven't experienced any flashbacks from watching it. Not yet anyway ;))

...and kn_d. Since you brought it up.....

And BTW, G & S never offered to pay me back.

**After Taking A $10 Billion Bailout, Goldman Sachs Announces It Will Outsource 1,000 Jobs To Singapore**

"Less than three years after receiving $10 billion in bailout money from American taxpayers, Goldman Sachs informed its employees recently that it will fire 1,000 workers in the United States and elsewhere, shifting their jobs to the cheaper Singaporean labor market.
According to Fox Business, Goldman Sachs has quietly informed workers and lawmakers of its plan to outsource 1,000 jobs in an attempt to inoculate itself from the impending blowback:"

"However, Goldman is firing American workers at a time of record profits for the company, which raked in $2.7 billion in profits in the first three months of 2011 alone."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/28/255724/goldman-sachs-outsource-1000-jobs-singapore/

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou. I saw the Kitzhaber story on the news this evening. It's refreshing to see a politician take a stand for something they believe in. And do it in such a way as to not force his opinion on the process, (and revoke future executions which he could have done). but rather open it to discussion/debate and let the people review policy and decide. Congress could take a lesson from this, but they won't

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — November 22, 2011 at 5:45 p.m.

I'm not impressed at all. What good is it to have the law on the books if it's never used? What a bunch of wimps. It's just because he's a doctor.

Do you know what the jury goes through to get to the point of convicting and sentencing to death? It really takes it out of them, not to mention the family of the person wronged? These people convicted and sentenced need to die.

hawkeye — November 22, 2011 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"With today’s news, Goldman joins the ranks of top U.S. corporations like GE, Chevron, Intel, and others who have collectively outsourced over 2.4 million American jobs in the past decade."

Given the article is months old, no doubt it's around 2.7.

Kn_d...of all the matters to be passionate about, standing up for those wanting a nanny to bail them out...

Goldman reveals where bailout cash went
Updated 7/26/2010 12:06 PM |

Goldman Sachs received a $12.9 billion payout from the government's bailout of AIG, which was at one time the world's largest insurance company.

By Karen Mracek and Thomas Beaumont, Des Moines Register
Goldman Sachs sent $4.3 billion in federal tax money to 32 entities, including many overseas banks, hedge funds and pensions, according to information made public Friday night.
Goldman Sachs disclosed the list of companies to the Senate Finance Committee after a threat of subpoena from Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Ia.

Asked the significance of the list, Grassley said, "I hope it's as simple as taxpayers deserve to know what happened to their money."

He added, "We thought originally we were bailing out AIG. Then later on ... we learned that the money flowed through AIG to a few big banks, and now we know that the money went from these few big banks to dozens of financial institutions all around the world."

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye: The pros and cons of the dealth penalty is an emotion-laden debate and people choose the side their conscience dictates.

A friend of mine is the Executive Director of the Innocence Project in an Eastern state and she can describe the pain jurors experience when they learn, years later, that they condemned an innocent person to death. It cuts both ways. Those errors aside, I don't think killing another person is something civilized countries should do.

I respect where you are coming from and appreciate your sharing your heartfelt perspective. Your feelings about this controversial issue run as deep in your soul as mine.

manthou — November 22, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 7:21 p.m.

Pay you back for what? The US government has been paid back.

While I share your disdain for job and industry loss in America, I will note that electronics, optics and much of the auto industry was lost to Japan in the 60's and beyond. NAFTA was enacted with the backing of Clinton.

Your link to "thinkprogress" is irrelevant. It is yet another Leftist rag which can spin apple pie in to some vast Right wing conspiracy. While I will be generous and suppose that the author of this peice believes himself to be honest, this rag peice is riddled with questionable statements and references and in no way should be taken as a piece of unbiased journalism.

In any event, just what is the relaionship between the governmnet loan to GS, and the shift of jobs to Singapore?

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — November 22, 2011 at 8:20 p.m

I really don't want to get into this but NOW with DNA so easily used now and the appeals system what it is these days, the chance of someone being innocent is pretty slim at best.

kn_dalai, as for Clinton and NAFTA, Clinton's involvement was simple. All he did was sign it. Daddy Bush did all the ground work.

hawkeye — November 22, 2011 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — November 22, 2011 at 8:32 p.m.

Exactly what does that mean?

Are you stating that Mr. Clinton did not have the fortitude to pursue the office of the presidency as he saw fit? Deferring instead to his predecessor?

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d- *Pay you back for what*? I'm being a bit abstract concerning G&S; individually, but realistic in losses. I took a considerable hit in the 401K world in 07' destined not to be made up. A bit nuanced, but you know how we libs are, always wanting to allocate blame somewhere other than ourselves. ;)) I guess I shouldn't have subjected myself to derivatives 'over' exposure. :() My bad.

"NAFTA was enacted with the backing of Clinton." And...

"...this rag peice is riddled with questionable statements and references and in no way should be taken as a piece of unbiased journalism." In particular?

In any event, just what is the relaionship between the governmnet loan to GS, and the shift of jobs to Singapore? Well...I know it's not shame, guilt, or a sense of screwing the American taxpayer/worker.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NAFTA was passed by simple majority of house and senate, therefore it is unconstitutional. It takes ratification of 2/3 of the Senate which it didn't get. It doesn't matter if you call it an agreement, an agreement with foreign states is a treaty.

frobert — November 22, 2011 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just wondering Mr. Nails:

Do you have an opinion on where your 401K would have been without the infusion of government funds to those otherwise-bankrupt financial this-thing-or-that-thing institutions, versus where it is now?

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*"riddled with questionable statements and references and in no way should be taken as a piece of unbiased journalism."
kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 8:22 p.m.*

Pretty powerful statement - yet much like another poster here, nothing brought to support the claim.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- I get where you are coming from. I used to be pretty hardline in the way of pro death penalty. It's only been in recent years I've concluded our system of justice is not up to the task of killing citizens without being in error. Here's a pretty good read.

"In many cases, because of the nature of the crime, a DNA test cannot identify the murderer. In other cases DNA samples were not collected at the crime scene and preserved in a state suitable for testing today, or DNA testing of sufficient sophistication either was not available or not performed. And most significant, in some cases relevant samples may no longer be at hand because the evidence was destroyed."

"Eyewitness misidentification is the single greatest cause of wrongful convictions nationwide, playing a role in more than 75% of convictions overturned through DNA testing."

"For many inmates the most important obstacle to DNA testing is the fact that in many jurisdictions officials refuse to enable inmates to have evidence tested using modern DNA testing methods, arguing that this would reopen too many old cases. Perhaps, though unstated, they fear that wrongful convictions would highlight the many "mistakes" of the criminal justice system and provide more fuel for the increasing calls for a pause in executions until we can be sure it is properly and fairly applied, and without the risk of executing the innocent."

http://www.aclu.org/capital-punishment/dna-testing-and-death-penalty

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d - My opinion lies with the events running up to the said problem. And you know what they say about opinions anyway...

Spilled milk. Having said that, the American people shouldn't have to provide the paper towels.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 22, 2011 at 9 p.m.

Doesn't strike you as not the least bit odd that only you know that?

Oh,wait; there was a court case...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6367/is_11_75/ai_n28879853/

Know of any that overturned that?

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn dalai
Well if you knew what you were doing and had sound investment adice or did it yourself because thats what you do you would not have been investing in those companies.. JMHO..

Is anyone not so far left to be watching the republican debates tonite? very interresting but really is Newt the best option. He is the most intellegent among all the rest for sure...If only the current prez had his IQ

vanwadreamer — November 22, 2011 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Pretty powerful statement.

mr_basil_seal — November 22, 2011 at 9:15 p.m.

Is that right? And just what is the "powerfull statement"? Seems to me like a kind of a really normal kind of statement/view to post here.

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes nailingit,

But just where would your own pension fund be without the government cash infusion?

Or did this loan go to keep the rich guys rich?

Or did this loan go to prevent a cascade of job loss from one business to another?

Or perhaps this loan went to keep your pension from becoming worthless.

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d- The detailed statement wall street provided me with referenced a black hole.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, let us thank those that blew up the economy.

*God we thank you for those that forced our country into the financial woes of recession.
We thank you for allowing the American taxpayer to fund and replenish the treasure troves of those that mean more to us than our families.
Thank you for allowing us to work and save, although our income compared to those that gambled away our money for personal gain adds to a widow's mite, we are proud to have it taken from us.
For we know that stock brokers and hedge fund managers giveth and taketh away.
Please bestow upon us the grace and humility to suffer in silence so it may happen again.*

Amen

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 10:24 p.m.

Just what exactly was that detailed statement?

kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d- What are you getting at? Are you requesting personal info? Trying to make a case for bailouts? Searching for the meaning of life?

Please. Speak up boy!

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Or did this **loan** go to keep the rich guys rich?*

*Or did this **loan** go to prevent a cascade of job loss from one business to another?*

I wasn't aware my losses were on "loan". I'll have to speak with someone about that!

...and why the redundancy?

**You libertarians can't stand it when the market fails!**

It invalidates everything you politically hold dear!

Why kn_d, I believe I just produced lemonade from a lemon!

Nothing like the value of insight.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Unless it's hindsight at voting time.

2012 will be a left leaning political landslide as never experienced before.

nailingit — November 22, 2011 at 11:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Seems to me like a kind of a really normal kind of statement/view to post here.
kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 10:04 p.m.*

You are partially right, a "normal kind of statement" - Unsupported claims, just like another poster here.

So, show us those "questionable statements" and how you know them to be so:

*"riddled with questionable statements and references and in no way should be taken as a piece of unbiased journalism." kn_dalai — November 22, 2011 at 8:22 p.m.*

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 4:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Question #1 Why didn't R. Paul vote?

Question #2 If he had, which way?

Question #3 Why

Q #3 would be the only one applicable to J. Herrera Beutler, btw.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll852.xml

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Last night's debate covered with all the reverence the series is due......

**Lt. Pike Attends CNN’s GOP National Security Debate**
By: Kevin Gosztola

Lt. Pike waited off to the side for the first questions. Ron Paul’s “needless and unnecessary wars are a great detriment” line caught his attention. He thought he remembered those UC Davis anarcho-kiddies saying something like that before he sprayed them. He wondered if he would have to make himself useful after all.

Then, Paul said, “I think the Patriot Act is unpatriotic because it undermines our liberty.” You know, what?” he thought. “You’re the unpatriotic one here. Three thousand men and women died on 9/11 so I could go out and pepper spray anyone daring to exercise their freedom of assembly rights. Or, something like that, right?”

Of course, Lt. Pike was wrong. He was offensively botching one of the biggest right wing authoritarian talking points of them all. It is supposed to be thousands of people died fighting terrorists over there so hippie protesters could continue to exercise their right to protest. If only Rudy Giuliani had been on stage to restate this, he would not have been confused.

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2011/11/23/lt-pike-attends-cnns-gop-national-security-debate/

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Thoughts held in mind produce in kind. That’s worth holding in mind today, because it’s the Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S. This is a day we’ve set aside every year since the Pilgrims came over, to celebrate and give thanks for the blessings in our life.

And since we know that what we attract what we think about, we know that giving thanks produces yet more to be thankful about.

Yet holidays can be a sad time for many…

Every holiday I used to call family that lived far away. Sadly that has become less an issue. As the years have gone by, I no longer have grandmothers or grandfathers left to call, no longer do I have a mother or father, nor do I have a mother-inlaw or father-inlaw to call.

But Thanksgiving is not a day to focus on what we don’t have. (And of course, no day really is.) It’s a day to be grateful for what we do have..

So we can take a moment and remember those that are no longer with us. But instead of sadness for the loss, let’s do it with gratitude for the time we had. Let us remember the magic, and honor them by living today, bold, out loud, and in living color.

I’ve buried too many people dear to me, way too early. As probably have you. So we owe it to them to live, really live, each and every day.

So I hope you’ll choose to celebrate this holiday as the day it and every day was meant to be, with wonder and gratitude.

I am grateful for my family and friends, sunrises and storytelling, puppies and chocolate walnut fudge, tolerance and time. I’m grateful for long walks on the beach, and long drives in the car.

I am grateful that those who serve my country protecting liberty, and are spending their holiday in harm’s way, away from their loved ones. Know you are appreciated and loved.

Today, my heart is filled with peace, my soul with comfort, and my life with abundance.

ELISI — November 23, 2011 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you Elisi! Happy Thanksgiving to all in the basement/Penthouse!!

karma — November 23, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I've thought the same thing. Why don't some of these guys just pick up a newspaper once in awhile?

"I'm just thinking back, going over the years, and I'm really dating myself, but when you saw the candidates that were running in primaries, let's say, back in Kennedy or Nixon's day: You had Nixon, you had Rockefeller, you had Henry Cabot Lodge," he said. "I mean these guys are all serious players. You had Barry Goldwater. Then the Democrats had Kennedy, Johnson, Humphrey, Stevenson. **I mean, these guys are all knowledgeable. Some of these Republican candidates look like they just sort of walked in."**

**"Ron Paul is a friend of mine, but he's talking about America being an imperial power,"** King said. "I mean, no Republican on the stage should stand for that. Or implying that somehow we're responsible for 9/11.

These high ranking republicans are still in denial.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2011/11/4252951/peter-king-wishes-all-republican-candidates-would-least-read-newspap

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


c'mon basil. that's an easy question. JHB voted with the R's as usual. 43 D's crossed lines, only 7 R's. The R's voted much straighter down party lines than the D's, no surprise there.

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — November 23, 2011 at 9:36 a.m.

And her email/newsletter sent just a couple of days before made no mention of it.

So, I guess there is a separate Q for that:

Why?

Think it might be because her handlers are hoping that feeds a small block of voters who will hear about through one of their gun forums and the general public won't see it?

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi at 8:40 am: I was moved by your public expression of gratitude and thank you for sharing those positive thoughts with all your Whine Cellar friends!

We all would do well to focus more on what's good and what's working in our lives! I appreciate your gentle reminder. :)

Have a restful, safe holdiday!

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Think it might be because her handlers are hoping that feeds a small block of voters who will hear about through one of their gun forums and the general public won't see it?*

That would be a smart ploy so I doubt that was their plan.

It does seem odd, given all the massive problems this country faces, that changing the US code so a person with a concealed weapon permit in any state can carry one in every state would come up. Is Nero fiddling? Hope not, there's a hint of smoke in the air. But, it's already election season-does it ever end?-so the three G's are in play.

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, yet another 'Whine Cellar,' no wonder the reporters at the Columbian feel it's okay to name call if one does it to it's own?? I'm so sorry here but I'm having some serious issues with this. Not to take away from what Elisi posted. But is it good to keep saying these things?
Heck this comes from one that was accused, I complain to much on FB???? Got to love some of the posters when they can't see the violations we all have to put up with and it costs all of us dearly??

karma — November 23, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Is Nero fiddling? mrd — November 23, 2011 at 10:04 a.m.*

Between that and the 'pizza is a vegetable' debacle ....

And delaying a decision on Keystone XL....

And .....

Yup

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You can find public notices in our Classifieds section.

1. Click Classifieds in the navigation bar
2. Click Merchandise
3. Check the public notices box
4. Choose the date range you'd like from the drop-down menu, you can choose All classifieds, New today, or Past 7 days.

This will bring up all the local public notices. You can also search all public notices statewide if you click "Search Washington state public notices."

Anything older than 7 days is in the archive: www.publicnotceads.com/WA

I made a request for the Public notices from Matt and Libby as it would be nice to read them online for those of us that don't have the written copy. Libby was so kind to point me as to where to find them. These are important for all to have to read. Thank you again for helping!!

karma — November 23, 2011 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kinda fun watching the R. Paulistas debating which way he would have voted it he had a chance.

Oh, wait, he did....

He also has a couple of resources to use to explain his non-vote.

But, then Jamie HB has similar resources to explain her vote.

Wonder if the C will have a reporter send her an e-mail....I'm sure the response would get a lot of coverage over the weekend....

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The White House released the president's long-form birth certificate in April after his campaign released a scanned copy. Some, however, refuse to believe that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

"Traitors!" shouted one woman after the committee vote. "Shame on you!" yelled another.

"Saying a treasonous liar can go on our ballot?" yelled Republican state Rep. Harry Accornero after the meeting. Accornero and Republican state Rep. Susan DeLemus yelled in Assistant Attorney General Matt Mavrogeorge's face after the hearing, according to a memorandum he wrote. DeLemus demanded an answer from Mavrogeorge on "whether the United States Constitution trumps New Hampshire's laws regarding the qualifications for president." After the hearing, he and Assistant Secretary of State Karen Ladd locked themselves in an office and called capitol security and the attorney general's office. Crowd members yelled and banged on his door, he said.

Delaney wrote that he was **"extremely concerned that a member of my staff was put in a position of fearing for his safety"** in a letter to the state police.

Republican state House Speaker Bill O'Brien cancelled a planned Tuesday meeting between himself and nine Republican representatives who doubt Obama's citizenship because of the pending investigations. He also asked State House security to investigate the incident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/23/new-hampshire-birther-hearing-orly-taitz_n_1110349.html

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Baggers tend to be nutty/void of rational thought as it is, with Romney being dubbed the party's nominee, their frustrated as hell!

A dangerous combo.

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


“Like most daily newspapers on the Web, The Columbian has struggled with anonymous commenters who bring down the level of discourse and prevent productive conversations from happening. On June 1, we became a leader among other mid-sized dailies when we switched our commenting system to Facebook and required the use of real names to comment on our stories. Since then, we’ve seen a dramatic improvement in the quality of comments as well as the variety of community members who are now participating. Other Washington papers are now following our lead and switching to this new platform,” Tucker wrote.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/no...

***Now ain't that just a kick in the teeth.***

hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes it is Hawkeye. I found it much more interesting when the comments were anonymous. It got a little crazy sometimes but the new format makes it boring.

Woosker — November 23, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma, you're welcome! I'll try to answer your follow up questions as best as I can.

hawkeye, the "kick" was not intentional. Everything we've built this year on the website has come on the foundation of what we had before. I'm very grateful to have loyal readers who let us know what they want. We try hard to meet those requests and continually improve the site. Those of you who prefer to interact anonymously in this forum still have a very valuable place here. And I thank you personally for your contributions.

Libby Clark — November 23, 2011 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And I thank you personally for your contributions.
Libby Tucker (Columbian Staff) — November 23, 2011 at 3:03 p.m.

Then I guess hawkeye should have wondered if the C will have a reporter send JHB an e-mail about her vote on HR 822....I'm sure the response would get a lot of coverage over the weekend....

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The best open forum ever on this site was several years ago. On that format, anyone could start a thread. This allowed a topic to be fought over, err discussed, yea discussed without having all kinds of comments on all kinds of things thrown in the mix. Got pretty uncivil sometimes, but was never dull. Too bad it's gone.

It seems this FB thing has caused this open forum to become a little more civil as though us "basement dwellers" were being, well put in the basement so the decent folks could avoid us. It seems the FB side has become less civil over time, in my opinion. I didn't really pay of lot of attention to any trends, or read FB comments that much, just sayin'.

Now this captha thing or whatever it is, totally sucks.

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 3:37 p.m.

But she actually voted FOR it. So if it passes the Senate and gets signed, it will save me money. I like that.

What's your complaint?

Oh yea, mrd.... I really hate that captcha thingy too.

hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have always enjoyed the All Politics is Local blog and have given well-deserved kudos for its content on several occasions here. Congratulations to the young journalists whose work is showcased there. Same for the web crew, Matt and Libby.

karma at 10:58 am: Self-deprecating humor, that's all it is. No harm meant in the use of the nickname-that-should-not-be-uttered. I think most commenters here do not take offense and use it with affection. I am truly sorry if my choice of descriptor offended you. I'll try to control myself in the future. :)

As a long-lost favorite Forum friend used to say: "Too bad there ain't no sarcasm font."

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


great read on how the R's really are hiding gutting social safety nets behind a deficit reducing mantra and how they've sucked the D's into throwing us off a cliff to do so.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/2011112271316280749.html

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I have been wanting to ask you about your take on the Newt Gingrich's immigration stance during the debate last night. Is he trying to woo the Latino vote? Is he sincere? Did you watch the debates? I missed this one.

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*"The Columbian has struggled with anonymous commenters who bring down the level of discourse and prevent productive conversations from happening."*

Since when? Since June? Now in many cases you have fictitious names, foggy policy guidelines and lack consistent oversight.

*"Since then, we’ve seen a dramatic improvement in the quality of comments as well as the variety of community members who are now participating.*

Please, point us to this "dramatic improvement". As far as variety, you now bait commenters on a wide variety of stories rather than the few local pieces the paper used to insist on limiting us to. Of course there is more involvement, for this reason and others.

*"Now ain't that just a kick in the **teeth**."* Perhaps just a shallow short-sighted view, and a minority opinion from the C. Naw, it's a kick.

*"hawkeye, the "kick" was not intentional."* What part of the anatomy were you aiming for?

Having said that, Happy Thanksgiving and best of luck with your awards. I'm sure we will read all about it.

manthou- I couldn't be as gracious as you with accolades to the C. Not with their commentary.

Your last apology was truly golden. :))

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd: Wow on that link from Aljazeera! I am going to give it a second and third read to digest it slowly. I am cutting and pasting a section from it below as I see this as the kernel of the write:

"The point is that the American people are being lied to about the deficit and their choices for fixing it (or not fixing it). And this dishonest campaign is being led by people with a long-standing animus towards the social safety net, who are seizing this moment of confusion to push through something without the permission of the people. This bait-and-switch is happening because financial and political elites insist on demanding "sacrifice" from ordinary people in order to preserve an unsustainable financial system, not an unsustainable debt."

Foreign news gives a brutally honest perspective.

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 3:37 p.m.
But she actually voted FOR it. So if it passes the Senate and gets signed, it will save me money. I like that.
What's your complaint?
hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 4:01 p.m.*

822 is concealed carry reciprocity. Lowest state regs become a defacto standard.

So, if a state has no permit requirement,no training requirement, no check for felony, no check for mental,.... another state whose citizens decided they wanted those provisions has to let the irresponsible state set the standards.

As opposed to a federal set of standards. Like hiway safety, EPA, drugs,......

It basically was a vote pandering to a small set of the population of states' rights advocates (those that want a return to the Articles of Confederation in the guise of 'originalism')and CCW advocates.

And, of course, there's that pesky issue of that was seemingly more important than working on deficit, jobs, .....

mr_basil_seal — November 23, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I really do like All Politics is Local, especially the exposure of Tom Mielke's decaying gray matter. Ya can't get that information is the regular news. :)

I will say that the idea that FB discussions here are more civilized and respectful is horse hockey. I think those of us who hang out in the bas....oops, anonymous Forum, do a much better job of carrying on extended conversations with a good dose of give and take. I don't get a sense of a "culture of care" on FB. The relationships aren't there.

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I've watched most of them but only caught a few minutes of this last debate.

As you know it's mostly blah blah, Obama is ruining our country, blah, blah, Obama is a socialist, blah blah. :))

But the Newtser is special, and I'm glad you asked my opinion as I have not seen my take on it anywhere.

Newt, like Cain, never expected to be on the stage he is now, and never expected receiving the level of scrutiny he is now going through.

Newt learned something from Perry, express compassion towards those with brown skin and you are through as a contender. Period. Newt doesn't want this job. Even with his inflated ego and leading everyone to believe he is the smartest person in the room, he knows he is ill equipped and lacks the intestinal fortitude to be our President.

If for some reason this doesn't do the trick, look for him to take another "controversial" stance . What is being peeled back and exposed in Newt's career & personal life is more than troubling. Imagine what we haven't seen yet. Newt not only knows where the bodies are buried, his shovel has become dull.

He'll go back to lobbying, writing books, "teaching", and become one of those "would be" presidential cryptic icons that Republicans will fantasize about in the future and dreamily say...

What if...

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou

I give creedence to the article for even though Hullaboo is noted as a liberal source (I'm taking their word for that), the author hammers the D's also, which gives the opinion some balance. Of course, I'm just a pawn in the game, you know, the expendable pieces that get in the way of the major pieces, so take it for what it's worth.

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — November 23, 2011 at 4:36 p.m

I'm in complete agreement with you on this one. I have posted on the FB side and I do not get the same warm and fuzzy (kidding) feeling that I get here. I find that the people on the other side just seem to "hit and run" instead of actually discussing the subjects. I still prefer the "basement" or "whine cellar" to Farcebook.

hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson has been set straight on Thanksgiving comfort food.

"The 700 Club" founder showed a clip of Condoleezza Rice on Wednesday. Robertson's host, Kristi Watts, asked what dish the former secretary of state had to have on Thanksgiving. Rice replied macaroni and cheese.

Watts reacted enthusiastically, adding "Sister, that is my dish..."

Appearing perplexed, Robertson asked Watts, who is black, of the women's shared enthusiasm for mac `n' cheese, "Is that a black thing?"

Watts replied "It is a black thing Pat. ...The world needs to get on board." The two laughed about it.

The exchange was posted on The Huffington Post and other blogs.

Robertson has a record of making provocative statements. He said Haiti was cursed one day after a devastating earthquake and that divorcing a spouse with Alzheimer's disease is justifiable.

***Pat better stick to what he knows, how to get people to give him their life savings.***

hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 4:58 PM: Interesting theory. So you think the Newtster is self-sabotaging his own campaign by expressing a tolerant view of undocumented workers. Credible theory. A plunge in the polls would give him a face-saving out, wouldn't it?

manthou — November 23, 2011 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Yes. He could retire his "latest" campaign for presidency with a certain amount of 'Gingrich' decency. I can see it now.

His concession speech when he starts diving in the polls...

**[Newt Gingrich]** *Of course there was not a doubt I would have been, and, might I say I was in a sense, the Republican nominee for the office of the presidency. There is not a doubt in any American's mind that I would have been victorious, and would have taken down president Obama, along with his socialist policies that are ruining this country, causing America to land on bended knee. In a very real sense I changed the course of presidential history with my stand against human rights violations, willing to sacrifice my personal ambitions, to stand up for honesty, fairness, to be a voice of justice, in spite of the injustices brought on this country from the Obama administration.*

*It is with regret I withdraw myself as a nominee. Thank you America.*

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*822 is concealed carry reciprocity. Lowest state regs become a defacto standard*

a point I'd not considered. Hmm......

mrd — November 23, 2011 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Newt has always used politics for personal advantage and gain. From the eighties till now. This time his "entrepreneurship" met with a surprise. Even Newt didn't realize just how weak the field was this time around. To his chagrin and our surprise, he's now at 'centre stage'. Here's a reminder of newt's...business sense. From May of last year...

"Gingrich's latest suggestion that he will run - he is promising a decision by early next year, giving him plenty more time to fan the flames of speculation - prompted Hotsheet to look back at the CBS News archives to see just how many times he has made the claim."

"Let's start with the last election: Back in December of 2006, Gingrich said he might run for president in the 2008 cycle. In May 2007, he said on CBS' "Face the Nation" he would make a decision about running by the end of that September; in June of that year, an appearance on Fox News in which he distanced himself from the Bush administration drove further speculation about a run."

T**he timing of Gingrich's alleged run was questionable** - announcing a run in September would have meant coming into the game relatively late, after his potential rivals had already gotten a significant head start. But that didn't slow down the speculation. In July of that year, CBSNews.com ran an interview with Gingrich headlined "Newt for President?"

**Gingrich, of course, never ended up jumping into the 2008 race. But keeping the question open certainly didn't hurt him.**

"Since his unceremonious departure from the House in 1998, Gingrich has become Newt Inc. -- one part provocateur, one part entrepreneur, who stirs debate in his party and in journalistic circles, gets Sunday talk show invites and draws audiences on the lecture circuit," Jonathan Martin wrote in July of 2007. **"A presidential flirtation helps Gingrich further raise his profile, push his ideas and sell his books."**

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20006152-503544.html

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now comes Newt Gingrich, the latest hero of the campaign-fad right and the next candidate to soon implode. Why can't the right rally around the authentic libertarian candidate Ron Paul, the legitimate conservative candidate Michele Bachmann, or find another serious standard-bearer of presidential caliber for conservatives?

Newt believes Barney Frank should go to jail because of ties to a lobbyist, while Newt takes an impressive $1.6 million of Freddie Mac money, according to multiple reports. Does Newt believe Newt should go to jail, too?

Will the investigative sleuths of the House Republicans, paid for at taxpayer expense to run political hearings about Freddie and Fannie, put Newt under oath as a witness too?

How can anyone who supports the Tea Party support Newt Gingrich, the recipient of a massive personal bailout through Freddie Mac money, with a straight face?

And what about Newt's lie that he was hired as a historian by Freddie Mac, and apparently paid $1.6 million, at least, by Freddie Mac, to tell Freddie executives that they stink, if one believes Newt's ridiculous story?

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/194607-newt-gingrich-freddie-mac-and-the-latest-pseudo-conservative-fraud

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


October 13, 2010 07:00 PM
**Newt Gingrich Shady Fundraising Pitch Tries to Scam Doctors for $5000**
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/newt-gingrich-shady-fundraising-pitch-trie

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Newt Gingrich's Ex-Wife Goes Public: Messy Relationship Life, Meltdowns, And 2012**

Marianne Gingrich suggested that her ex-husband "believes that what he says in public and how he lives don't have to be connected" and added, "If you believe that, then yeah, you can run for president. ... He always told me that he's always going to pull the rabbit out of the hat."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/newt-gingrichs-ex-wife-go_n_676834.html

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Rachel Maddow: Newt Gingrich Running Scams Akin To ‘A Nigerian Prince E-Mail’
VIDEO**
by Josh Feldman | 10:36 pm, November 18th, 2011

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-newt-gingrich-running-scams-akin-to-a-nigerian-prince-e-mail/

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:28 p.m.

Holy crap, you mean that all the money I've been sending to the Nigerian Prince was a scam????

Oh man, the wife isn't going to like this.

hawkeye — November 23, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just wanted to scratch the surface of the Repub's latest fave. Newt is smart enough to know he carries way too much baggage to become President. Newt also realizes the more his shenanigan's come to the surface, the less of a viable candidate he will be, weakening his "credibility", but most importantly diminishing his bottom line. imho.

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL hawkeye. I think "The Prince" would be a good nickname for Newt. He could charge the jewels to Tiffany's!

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**House Reprimands, Penalizes Speaker**

The House voted overwhelmingly yesterday to reprimand House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) and **order him to pay an unprecedented $300,000 penalty, the first time in the House's 208-year history it has disciplined a speaker for ethical wrongdoing.**

The ethics case and its resolution leave Gingrich with little leeway for future personal controversies, House Republicans said. Exactly one month before yesterday's vote, Gingrich admitted that he brought discredit to the House and broke its rules by failing to ensure that financing for two projects would not violate federal tax law and by giving the House ethics committee false information.

"Newt has done some things that have embarrassed House Republicans and embarrassed the House," said Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.). "If [the voters] see more of that, they will question our judgment."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/leadership/stories/012297.htm

nailingit — November 23, 2011 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Happy Thanksgiving. Today, I am grateful for the bunch of silly nominees the Republican party is running for prez. It gives me hope that we can stave them off four more years.

I am also grateful for the mocha pie I made yesterday.

And as Elisi said so well, I am grateful for the people still in my life and will remember those I have lost this year.

All, enjoy the day and be thankful for whatever you can be. And for our banished friends and those who decided against posting: hope to see you here again!
Now, on to cooking!

luvithere — November 24, 2011 at 5:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In just a few short hours I'm going to have a house full of relatives and friends. We are going to enjoy some games and Thanksgiving shows on the tube. We will all sit down to a bounty of good food and drink. We do not discuss religion or politics at these gatherings, rather we reflect on our losses and our good fortune throughout the last year.

We also think about those who can't be here. Those are the ones who are serving our country. Or they are unable to come because they have their own extended families that are doing just as we are.

We give thanks to all those who have gone before and to the ones who will go in the future. We pray to keep them safe and healthy and to bring them home the same. My wife's and my families are spread over the world and we wish them a warm and happy Thanksgiving wherever they may be.

To all of you out there, from the penthouse to the basement, we wish the same for you and yours.

Gotta go and do some last minute things as usual. It's only 5:30 in the morning but I may get a nap in if she'll let me ...

JohnCasey — November 24, 2011 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey: Good to see you again! I enjoyed both you and luvithere's (and Elisi yesterday)reminder of the importance of pausing for a gratitude fix. We should do this everyday.

As a tip o' the hat to the good research coming from UC Davis faculty, I am posting a link to Dr. Robert Emmons' webpage. Practice gratefulness daily and you will like what you see/feel:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/Labs/emmons/PWT/index.cfm?Section=4

Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving, Forum friends!

manthou — November 24, 2011 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Thanksgiving Is Un-American**
Paul Krugman

Think, for a minute, about what happened on the original Thanksgiving. (Yes, I know that there are doubts about what really happened, but never mind.)

Here’s how it went down: a bunch of people got together, with each group bringing what it could — the Wampanoag brought deer, the Pilgrims apparently shot some birds, etc.. Then everyone shared equally in the feast — regardless of how much they brought to the table. Socialism!

Worse yet, many of the lucky duckies benefiting from the largesse of this 17th-century welfare state were illegal immigrants. (That would be the Pilgrims).

We need to stop celebrating this deeply un-American event, and start celebrating something more in tune with the things that make America great, such as the Ludlow Massacre.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/thanksgiving-is-un-american/

mr_basil_seal — November 24, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ah, the good old days of America's growing corporations. If the feds were called in to quell something like the Colorado Coalfield Wars today, I wonder whose side they'd fall in with? Or would they even be neutral? If Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State are any indication, Hmmmmmmmmm....

mrd — November 24, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jon Stewart: "I celebrated Thanksgiving in an old-fashioned way. I invited everyone in my neighborhood to my house, we had an enormous feast, and then I killed them and took their land."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/23/thanksgiving-quotes-funny_n_1110671.html#undefined

Happy Thanksgiving people. Among many thanks, I'm thankful for humor. It makes life a bit more palatable.

Keep safe traveling.

manthou- If you are still going to to OWS this weekend, please give Mayor Bloomberg some much needed counsel and try not to get arrested!

nailingit — November 24, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I depart in a exactly a week, which will place me squarely in the midst of fray between the 2nd through the 5th.

We will have a Forum citizen journalist among the evil insurgents. I shall report back and will do my best to keep out of the way of the men in blue with pepper spray. :)

Actually, I envy those kids in Lafayette Square who were lucky enough to lock arms with the likes of Pete Seeger and Joan Baez to sing, even if they did not understand the depth of the honor.

manthou — November 24, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”*

~Mahatma Gandhi~

nailingit — November 24, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — November 24, 2011 at 9:57 a.m

Be careful, be safe and be home as soon as you can.

hawkeye — November 24, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Some between game/half time food.

"We assembled a panel of top guitarists and other experts to rank their favorites and explain what separates the legends from everyone else. Featuring Keith Richards on Chuck Berry, Carlos Santana on Jerry Garcia, Tom Petty on George Harrison and more."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-20111123#ixzz1eeZY0At7

nailingit — November 24, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all my cyberdwellers here in the basement.

My past is such that I focus only on the now. For the first time in...ever...I will cook a turkey. I do this to celebrate and give thanks to God for my Great Blessing; my own home.

I will make the family jewel..Texas cornbread stuffing. I will have my son here, and we will eat and talk and remember in prayer his siblings.

Then we will retire to my living room, and watch Harry Potter and the something-something-something. He will love it.

To all ... may God bless you with prosperity, love and peace. May we remember why we love this country, and, as we each see fit, do what we must to keep her safe.

DeeLittle — November 24, 2011 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Latest internet meme: the pepper spraying cop in familiar paintings and photos (scroll through them all) My favorite is his inclusion in Seurat's Sunday in the Park and my new temporary avatar, cop-spraying-Paul McCartney on Abbey Road:

http://www.unp.me/f44/pepper-spraying-cop-memes-172440/

manthou — November 24, 2011 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Four more pages of Lt John Pike doing what he does the best:

http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

manthou — November 24, 2011 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


****Congress getting down on itself
After the 'super committee's' failure to agree to a deficit deal, the mood on Capitol Hill has switched from frustration to open self-loathing.****

It's a volley in the fight over which party governs better. It's a punch line in the hallway. (Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina says he has taken to calling himself a lawyer.) It's a chart, put together by Sen. Michael Bennet, identifying things more popular than Congress. The list includes President Nixon during Watergate (24%), BP during the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico (24%) and the U.S. adopting communism (11%).

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-congress-mood-20111124,0,4166841,print.story

nailingit — November 24, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hah, I found the one I like. Thanks manthou. That's a hoot.

Of course I think he needs to be fired, but time will tell.

hawkeye — November 24, 2011 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye: I liked the Boehner one, too. Also the one with the sweet elementary students gathered on the gym floor for Lt. Pike's Career Day demonstration.

I read a great commentary on this Lt. Pike meme phenomenon yesterday. It helps to further expose the nonchalant body language he uses when performing such a cruel and inhumane act. So casual. So cold. So horrifying. While the photoshopped pictures make us laugh initially, they drive home the point.

I noticed that the Columbian's editorial this morning is about this UC Davis cop's unjustifiable use of pepper spray on peaceful student demonstrators. Good job, editorial board.

What a legacy this man will need to answer to for the rest of his life. Hawkeye, I think his days of employment at UC Davis are numbered and you can bet that no other law enforcement agency will want him on their employee roster.

The ease with which eye witnesses can videotape on the spot is extraordinary evidence these days.

manthou — November 25, 2011 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I was looking for the Bennett chart. Thanks for posting the link.

It says it all that Lindsay Graham understands that his JAG bonafides will garner more respect than his US Senator title nowadays. As if we can forget or will forget who is helping lead our country down a road of inertia.

manthou — November 25, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Here is the chart and a couple more from a recent Gallup poll targeting congressional approval ratings.

At least Congress is tied with Hugo Chavez!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/congress-approval-problem-in-one-chart/2011/11/15/gIQAkHmtON_blog.html

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150728/Congress-Job-Approval-Entrenched-Record-Low.aspx

nailingit — November 25, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Many thanks. I can count on my Forum friends to keep me up-to-date. I teased Roger (where is he?) once about being my Reader's Digest summary for all-that's-important-to-know.

Something to ponder for those who are shopping today: Consider making a visit to your local small business for a purchase. Buy gift certificates that encourage commerce with a mom and pop restaurant, hairdresser, gift shop, bookseller, etc. Put together a gift basket of local products along with your big box purchases.

I am off to check out the storm's aftermath on the coast while stopping at the gift shops and galleries there. They are never crowded this time of year and shopping can actually be a thoughtful, relaxing process.

manthou — November 25, 2011 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime**

And this problem is on the rise all over the country. Last year, police in New York City arrested around 50,000 people for marijuana possession. Pot has been decriminalized in New York since 1977, but displaying the drug in public is still a crime. So police officers stop people who look "suspicious," frisk them, ask them to empty their pockets, then arrest them if they pull out a joint or a small amount of marijuana. They're tricked into breaking the law. According to a report from Queens College sociologist Harry Levine, there were 33,775 such arrests from 1981 to 1995. Between 1996 and 2010 there were 536,322.

Several NYPD officers have alleged that in some precincts, police officers are asked to meet quotas for drug arrests. Former NYPD narcotics detective Stephen Anderson recently **testified in court that it's common for cops in the department to plant drugs on innocent people to meet those quotas -- a practice for which Anderson himself was then on trial.**

At the same time, there's increasing evidence that the NYPD is paying less attention to violent crime. In an explosive Village Voice series last year, current and former NYPD officers told the publication that supervising officers encouraged them to either downgrade or not even bother to file reports for assault, robbery and even sexual assault. The theory is that the department faces political pressure to produce statistics showing that violent crime continues to drop. Since then, other New Yorkers have told the Voice that they have been rebuffed by NYPD when trying to report a crime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/drug-war-incentives-police-violent-crime_n_1105701.html

nailingit — November 25, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Apparently it's contagious!***

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A woman shot pepper spray to keep shoppers from merchandise she wanted during a Black Friday sale, and 20 people suffered minor injuries, authorities said.

The incident occurred shortly after 10:20 p.m. Thursday in a crowded Los Angeles-area Walmart as shoppers hungry for deals were let inside the store.

Police said the suspect shot the pepper spray when the coverings over the items she wanted were removed.

"Somehow she was trying to use it to gain an upper hand," police Lt. Abel Parga told The Associated Press early Friday.

He said she was apparently after some electronics and used the pepper spray to keep other shoppers at bay.

Officials said 20 people suffered minor injuries. Fire department spokesman Shawn Lenske said the injuries to least 10 of them were due to " rapid crowd movement."

Parga said police were still looking for the woman.

The store remained open and those not affected by the pepper spray continued shopping.

hawkeye — November 25, 2011 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Don Imus: Newt Gingrich Is 'Disgusting' And 'A Fat Repulsive Pig'**

"He's a fat, repulsive pig! I hate to be so harsh," Imus said. "You go out in the woods and find a piece of old, dead wood, you lift it up and underneath there's a bunch of bugs crawling around and white stuff ... that's Newt Gingrich."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/don-imus-newt-gingrich_n_1108545.html?ref=politics

nailingit — November 25, 2011 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 25, 2011 at 1:05 p.m

Huh, so another conservative love affair dead, I'll be.

hawkeye — November 25, 2011 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, nailingit, et.al.,

I'm still around, but have been occupied elsewhere. My wife of 35 years, who I once mentioned had cancer, died last week.

Lung cancer is an ugly thing. I spent over a week watching her lungs shut down - and once the docs loaded her up with morphine, it was almost impossible to know what she heard me say to her. It was the hardest thing I've ever experienced.

She was a smoker. There's no proof that this directly led to her cancer, or whether it just exacerbated a genetic tendency to getting it. Either way, I'd like to say that if you smoke - quit. And if you have a loved one who does, do everything within your power to get that person to quit. Please.

roger — November 25, 2011 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry to hear this. i, too, watched a loved one slowly die from end-stage lung disease (cystic fibrosis). there are no comforting platitudes...for me, it would hurt forever, and life would never be the same. but it did go on, and i've realized it's like living with 3rd degree burns over 95% of your body...you're alive, and you just accept the rest.

praying for you and your wife.

DeeLittle — November 25, 2011 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger
Sorry to hear about your loss.

frobert — November 25, 2011 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, our thoughts are with you. Very sorry to hear abotu your loss.

luvithere — November 25, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I know just how you feel. My Mother in law passed last month and had COPD from smoking for 60 years. My condolences to you and your family.

hawkeye — November 25, 2011 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I'm sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts are with you my forum friend. Take care of yourself and I wish you the best.

nailingit — November 25, 2011 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I am deeply sorry to hear of the loss of your wife, your life partner. My heart and thoughts are with you and your family.

manthou — November 25, 2011 at 10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Both my wife's and my folks died from complications directly caused by smoking. Roger, we offer our sincerest condolences for your loss.

Note to The Columbian: GET RID OF THAT DAMN CAPTCHA. I just went through 8 try's before I got one I could read. What the heck is it good for but to just frustrate us down here in the basement. How is it supposed to stop someone from posting? Your site wasn't getting spammed before you changed to this format. Why don't you have it for the folks who use Farce Book also? They get pretty pithy up there ya know?

JohnCasey — November 26, 2011 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

karma — November 26, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — November 26, 2011 at 6:21 a.m.

I TOTALLY AGREE, that thing is really starting to tick me off. Or maybe that's the idea. Once they get everybody mad enough, they'll shut the basement down.

hawkeye — November 26, 2011 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

I would also like to add my own heartfelt condolences.

kn_dalai — November 26, 2011 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A little trivia lesson this morning, boyz and gurlz:

Did you know "captcha" is an acronym for "Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart"?

That a Turing test was named for a scientist named Alan Turing?

Betcha ya don't care. :) Annoying is annoying. I am going to try the auditory option to post this useless bit of info and see if it is any easier.

In the meantime, when you are bored out of your gourd and have absolutely nothing else to do, you can torture yourself with more Turing tests here:

http://www.turinghub.com/

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It took me two tries, but here is the thing with the auditory test. You have to type in all the intelligible words. All of them. There were a string of four or five.

A reframe: taking daily Turing tests may actually stimulate your sleepy brain? It may be the cognitive equivalent of running 5 miles? Not buying it? Don't blame you? :)

roger: Hope to see you joining us again when you feel up to it. I have missed your presence.

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here is my Q and A with the computer at the turinghub.com website. I am A. The computer is B:

A: Tell me a story
B: Generic story: Situation...characters...crisis...resolution.

A: What time is it?
B: It's Now more than it ever has been before.
Saturday, November 26, 2011.

A: Who is Stephen King?
B: He wrote many popular horror stories.

A: Who is Alan Turing?
B: A brilliant and tragic figure in the history of computer science.

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I apologize in advance for my multiple posts this morning. Blame JohnCasey and Hawkeye for complaining about captcha.....:)

From Alan Turing's biography from MacTutor dot com (tells you how far we have come, thankfully, in our lifetime):
____________________________________________________________
"Turing was arrested for violation of British homosexuality statutes in 1952 when he reported to the police details of a homosexual affair. He had gone to the police because he had been threatened with blackmail. He was tried as a homosexual on 31 March 1952, offering no defence other than that he saw nothing wrong in his actions. Found guilty he was given the alternatives of prison or oestrogen injections for a year. He accepted the latter and returned to a wide range of academic pursuits."
________________________________________________________________

Egads! Prison or estrogen injections for the "crime" of being homosexual in England in 1952? It ends badly:

_________________________________________________________________

"Turing died of potassium cyanide poisoning while conducting electrolysis experiments. The cyanide was found on a half eaten apple beside him. An inquest concluded that it was self-administered but his mother always maintained that it was an accident."
_______________________________________________________

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A: What's up?

B: I am on the internet with a client.

A: What is the cognitive equivalent of flying?

B: The twentieth letter of the alphabet.

A: What the hell?

B: Heaven

A: What is the solution to fix America's problems?

B: 999

(well, that's what it said, except the final dose of B )

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**NASA Mars Curiosity Launch: Huge Rover On Its Way To Mars**

The 1-ton Curiosity – as large as a car – is a mobile, nuclear-powered laboratory holding 10 science instruments that will sample Martian soil and rocks, and analyze them right on the spot. There's a drill as well as the laser-zapping device.

"Mars really is the Bermuda Triangle of the solar system," Hartman said. "It's the death planet, and the United States of America is the only nation in the world that has ever landed and driven robotic explorers on the surface of Mars, and now we're set to do it again."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/26/nasa-mars-curiosity-launc_n_1113995.html

I wonder if they will be passing by the area that was photographed by a novice using Google Mars several months ago. It most definitely warrants a closer look.

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal



My apologies. The above site no longer had video. This one does.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpps/news/offbeat/armchair-astronaut-spots-mars-base-dpgoha-20110608-fc_13578520

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Great insight with Turing. The tragedy continues!

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Gary Johnson Considering 2012 Election Bid As Libertarian Candidate**

"I feel abandoned by the Republican Party," Johnson told the Sante Fe New Mexican. "The Republican Party has left me by the wayside."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/26/gary-johnson-2012-libertarian_n_1114082.html?ref=politics

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks to all, to include Goldie who sent an e-mail. Not sure why she isn't posting anymore. Also, what happened with Allen? I saw something that indicated he got into it with SportyJames and might have been banned? Is this a permanent thing, or just a suspension for a while?

roger — November 26, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good afternoon, roger! Glad to see you participating again!

I cannot answer your questions. It would be only speculation. Maybe after the weekend, Matt W will offer an explanation about Allen. Goldie has a history of taking self-imposed leaves-of-absence every so often and I am almost certain she will be back to join in the fun any day now. :)

nailingit: It is a slow news day, isn't it? I yammer on about an obscure British scientist and you take us on a video tour of a mystery site on Mars. Keep it coming. I eat that stuff up like popcorn when I have too much time on my hands and too little cogent thoughts in my brain. :)

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I wish I would have read your post before I cleaned out my garage. I'd have a bit more energy now!

roger- Great to see you post. I did ask Matt what happened but he didn't address it.. It was a bummer because it happened on Veteran's day.

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I still haven't read a viable explanation for the object on Google Mars. I have to think Curiosity (as well as other duties) is on a path to get clearer photo's of BIO. If the object is proven to be a structure, would it not prove the the existence of intelligent/advanced life forms? We couldn't have transported/built/and dare I say, Occupy Mars? This had to wake up the people at the top. Will we ever find out Gov't info regarding Bio Station Alpha? This appears to be the biggest space discovery of all time. Why aren't we hearing more? If we track the destination of Curiosity, will photo's taken now be timely then? So many questions. Is it really a Mars mission, or is it co-opted with Russia's probe into deflecting future asteroids that could devastate Earth?

I'm not given to "conspiracy theories" per say, it's not like 2012 is around the corner. :))

Here is a link to NASA on said (2012) subject. I tend to agree with NASA...but it just seems so...

tidy.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

nailingit — November 26, 2011 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Interesting stuff, indeed. The government spent a wad of dough on the new Mars robotic probe, Curiosity, for a reason.

I keep remembering Stephen Hawking's prediction that, in 500 years, we will have technology that will allow earth's inhabitants to colonize our closest planet neighbor.

'Course, he also said that, if there are extraterrestrial beings already present "out there", the chances of them coming to earth with good intentions is very low. Think of how many explorer invasions from history ended well for the natives. :(

All this is on Discovery Channel's "Into the Universe" documentary.

manthou — November 26, 2011 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**And Some Wonder Why Americans Are So Dumbed Down?**

The covers of the US edition of this week's Time Magazine compared to the international editions.

We can't make this stuff up. It kind of says it all...
http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/11/26

**Fox News Viewers are the Most Misinformed: A Seventh Study Arrives to Prove It**

There might very well be a survey out there showing that Fox viewers aren’t the most misinformed cable news consumers on some topic (presumably it would be a topic where Democrats have some sort of ideological blind spot), but I haven’t seen it. And I have looked.
There really does seem to be a “Fox News effect,” then, and one that is playing a central role in driving our political divide over reality in the U.S. And now comes a true tour-de-force seventh study showing that Fox News viewers are the most misinformed, this time once again about global warming.
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/11/22/374434/fox-news-viewers-misinformed-study-jon-stewart/

**The decadence of the West**

By Matt Miller, Published: November 23

The Chinese official was perplexed.

“It seems clear that taxes have to go up as a share of GDP and spending has to go down. When is that going to happen?”

We were in a seminar room at the Chinese Executive Leadership Academy in Shanghai. It’s kind of an executive MBA center where rising Communist Party leaders come for training. I was there two weeks ago speaking about the future of capitalism. Since China holds more than $1.1 trillion of U.S. debt, the group was keen to learn when they could expect the United States to get its fiscal house in order.

I gave them the answer I generally give these days when asked that same question at home. Given Republicans’ denial about the need for taxes to rise as we double the number of seniors on Social Security and Medicare, and Democrats’ denial about the need to slow the growth of these huge programs as part of an overall fix, I explained, “We probably won’t get serious about taking these steps until our Chinese creditors tell us we have to.”

They laughed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-decadence-of-the-west/2011/11/23/gIQAI7anoN_story.html

mr_basil_seal — November 27, 2011 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anybody catch Grover Norquist on Meet The Press? It's clear he's the originator and king of Republican talking points concerning taxes. It was like listening to all the GOP candidates rolled into one. It's more than scary that those at the top would rather see the social economic structure of America perish rather that give up 1 cent of what they earn, to pay for the many government related services they suck up.

The mega rich right wingers glam onto Government welfare, then demand we cut programs to service the handicapped, seniors and those looking for a job.

It ain't right.

nailingit — November 27, 2011 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Payroll Tax Cut: Jon Kyl, Retiring From Office, Pledges To Oppose Extension**

The payroll tax extension would put an estimated $1,000 in the pockets of middle class families and is expected to be the first legislative item considered once Congress returns from Thanksgiving break.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/27/jon-kyl-payroll-tax-cut-extension_n_1114992.html

nailingit — November 27, 2011 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Jon Kyl’s search-and-destroy mission**

When Democrats floated their proposal combining tax increases and spending cuts, Kyl rejected it out of hand, citing Republicans’ pledge to activist Grover Norquist not to raise taxes. Kyl’s constant invocation of the Norquist pledge provoked Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to snap at Kyl during a private meeting: “What is this, high school?”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/jon-kyls-search-and-destroy-mission/2011/11/22/gIQA5BZVmN_story.html

nailingit — November 27, 2011 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- 'Course, he also said that, if there are extraterrestrial beings already present "out there", the chances of them coming to earth with good intentions is very low. Think of how many explorer invasions from history ended well for the natives. :(

If we put intent/invasion into human context Hawking would have a valid point. Hawking without a doubt possesses a great intellect and a brilliant mind, but has no basis for this thought. His reasoning is predicated on the predictable aspects of human nature, not extraterrestrial life/behavior patterns. (unless he lends credence to the foundations of Scientology or another account of ancient alien warfare) Only speculation. 500 years till we are colonizing another planet? (to include our moon/or other moons?) Given how far technology has come in the last half century, and technology inherently progresses exponentially, five centuries seems to be selling it short.

200 years max on colonizing. If we received some chariot-y as we might have in the past, sooner. :0))

My opinion is based on pure speculation also. So thinking about it, I'd go with Hawking!

nailingit — November 27, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But Senator Jon Kyl, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, did not say he would agree to extend the payroll tax and unemployment benefits.
"The payroll tax holiday has not stimulated job creation. We don't think that is a good way to do it. Before the end of the year, we will have discussions about what we're going to do on all these different programs," Kyl said on "Fox News Sunday."*

Could someone explain to this fool the "tax holiday" for the rich hasn't created one damn job either? I'd like to hear Kyl explain why ending the payroll tax is not a tax increase while taking away Obama's extension of tax cuts for the wealthy is a tax increase?

Puleeez folks, as partisan as this will sound, electing Republicans next fall that have this mindset is financial suicide, unless, of course, you're a millionaire. In the same article, it was mentioned the Rebuplicans want to see about reducing the automatic cuts to defense spending due to the stupor commitee's failure. Starting to sound familiar yet? Guess where these guys are going to aim their cuts, SS, Meicaire, etc? Naw, they wouldn't do that, right?

mrd — November 27, 2011 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a hoot....

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Talk about a dirty scam.

Federal prosecutors in Florida say at least three people working for a septic tank company duped customers into buying about $1 million in unnecessary products — in some cases enough toilet paper to last more than 70 years.

More than a dozen customers were told they needed special toilet paper to avoid ruining their septic tanks because the federal government changed regulations on toilet paper. The federal government does not regulate septic tank products.

The trio pleaded guilty in federal court to conspiring to commit wire fraud.

The Miami Herald reported ( bit.ly/uNgbS7) that they worked for FBK Products. A phone number for the Riviera Beach-based company was not working Saturday.

The trio faces up to two decades in prison when they are sentenced in February.

hawkeye — November 27, 2011 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Brownback has been selling freedom down the river for many years. Nice to see our youth get involved.

Not so nice to see what Brownback spends his time on. Taxpayer dollars hard at work. Pathetic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/27/emma-sullivan-apology-sam-brownback-tweet_n_1115382.html

nailingit — November 27, 2011 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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