Open Forum, Oct. 24-30



Most read stories on last week:

No. 1) Vancouver couple accused of imprisoning, beating and starving twins

No. 2) Firefighters, police rescue man standing in Columbia River

No. 3) After a night of partying, a terrifying fall

No. 4) Police: Camas man falls asleep at wheel, crashes into tree

No. 5) Megastore becomes megachurch

The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your ID or register at

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor Libby Tucker,, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski,



Good morning, Allen...and good morning to all in the wonderful Whine Cellar!!!

goldenoldie — October 24, 2011 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys, still busy with stuff but I'll check in from time to time. Have a great week.

hawkeye — October 24, 2011 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, that's an interesting video. Jay Smooth always has an interesting take on the events of the day. Thanks for sharing.

Matt Wastradowski — October 24, 2011 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning Whine cellar!

Nothing like waking up on a Monday morning with the sounds of heavy equipment, the smell of asphalt and the sun shinning!

Beautiful day today...Sun shine, crisp cool fall air, trees are gorgeous in their fall clothes, red tail hawks flying over head calling out to each other. Perfect day to walk the with neighbors, put some nuts and fruits out for the. squirrels, top off feeders, and hang some suet out for the birds.

ELISI — October 24, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

it appears Perry has jumped on the flat tax bandwagon with Cain. If this looks like it'll get any traction, the tax attorneys and accountants will rail against it. But with things being they way they are, the big boys like things just they way they are. Major corps with attorneys on staff are milking the tax code for all it's worth.

The flat tax, even if it were to be revenue neutral (yuk, yuk) and more fair, is preposterous. It'll never fly and these guys should know it. Perhaps they're just trying to milk anti-flat tax donors some more. Might need it seeing as how Obama appears closing in on a billion $$$ in his war chest. The ratio of incumbents with the most money being returned is too good to be coincedental.

The claim "one could file a tax return on a postcard" will be it's death knell. Can you imagine the feds abolishing or even drastically reducing the IRS? Hell, they've got their own courts. They ain't going nowhere and neither is a flat tax.

mrd — October 24, 2011 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal



the smile i got from this *almost* matches what i got from this beautiful fall day. *bring on the ducks !*

DeeLittle — October 24, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Can you imagine the feds abolishing or even drastically reducing the IRS*


yes i can. can YOU imagine how much money we'd save???

i know it's got a snowflake's chance in a fireplace, but it IS the season for wonderful fantasies, isn't it....?

DeeLittle — October 24, 2011 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well everyone...before you take that next bite of your sandwich, eat your favorite cereal...

you'd better read this article:

goldenoldie — October 24, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*"abolishing or even drastically reducing the IRS"*

I think we've been hearing that since what, the Reagan era?

Have you seen a proposed income tax on a postcard form?

Or is it more like the 'flat' / 999 claims that don't work out to really be a savings for the majority?

mr_basil_seal — October 24, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did you know that one method used to produce various vegetable oils is by using chemical solvents?

First read about this 30 years ago. Have always bought cold pressed olive oil since then.

Keywords: Solvent extraction, will get you some info on this with a google search.

Here is one brief description: [][1]


kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just another excellent reason for my family to stick to cold pressed OO!!! Thanks, kn_dalai.

goldenoldie — October 24, 2011 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

CEOs Compensated Correctly, Vast Majority Of Shareholders Say|main5|dl2|sec3_lnk2|106948

"Despite growing income inequality, and global protests criticizing the wealth gap, CEO compensation now exceeds pre-recession levels, totaling billions of dollars. But the majority of corporate shareholders don't seem to mind that CEOs are netting such high pay. Only 36 of 2,225 companies reported that shareholders voted against the pay rates of CEOs at the firms they hold stock in, Forbes reports... median CEO compensation rose 27 percent in 2010...In 2010, worker pay increased by only 2.1 percent, a comparison some corporations are disinclined to make public. In fact, a current lobby known as the Center on Executive Compensation is attempting to undo a Dodd-Frank requirement that demands corporations report the median pay rate of its employees, as it would put executive compensation into perspective with the pay rates of average workers, The Washington Post reports."

I'd say this is a good reason for Occupy Wall Street to exist. And I also say that as long as these obscene salaries and bonuses are allowed to continue, Occupy Wall Street is spittin' into the wind.

roger — October 24, 2011 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For all you major league baseball fans in the Whine Cellar, I have a question. Does anybody know why all the baseball players have beards this World Series? I haven't been following it this year and just made the observation tonight as my other half was enjoying the game.

goldenoldie — October 24, 2011 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I asked this question to another commenter some time back, but never received a response.

Here's the question: Who's more important...the guy that digs the ditch, or the guy that invented the shovel?

Your thoughts?

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 7:57 p.m.

Just a thought, I think it was the same guy. He invented the shovel SOOOO he could dig the ditch. Maybe yes?

hawkeye — October 24, 2011 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Clever observation Hawkeye. And one which I agree with.

So let’s take that one step further. And it has to do with “Necessity is the mother of invention.”

Maybe that ditch digger had an idea for a tool that was better at digging the earth than he could do with his bare hands. So he had this funny idea for a metal blade, of some sort, with a handle on it, that leverage could be applied to, and would do a better job. Without wrecking his hands and his back.

But he doesn’t have any money. So he goes to the capital markets and raises cash to put up his shovel producing new factory building, and to be able to buy the metal forming machines and to buy the wood handles for his new tool. Then he goes out and hires some townsfolk to put the stuff together.

Maybe some of those townsfolk eventually think that they do the work, and the guy who doesn’t get his hands dirty is living off of their labor.

Is my playful little example full of derivatives? You bet.

Kn_dalai’s first rule of epistemology:

> Break things down to their bare essence, to see what you’re working with. Then add on the complications later.

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe some of those townsfolk eventually think that they do the work, and the guy who doesn’t get his hands dirty is living off of their labor. kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 9:20 p.m

I believe that might happen but in my experience, that usually happens when the workers are not treated fairly. It's a very difficult balancing act but it can be done. The number one rule is, don't lie to your employees.

hawkeye — October 24, 2011 at 11:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt/Columbian staff. What's going on here?

Bobbo's recent comments have been deleted.

There was nothing of vulgarity, or anything else that I can see, which bobbo stated, which was contrary to the Columbian's standards of conduct.


kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 11:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 11:54 p.m.

I'm curious about this myself. I saw the comments last night and would like to know exactly what statement was made to warrant the deletion? There has been months of Bob bashing that has gone on unabated. Seems like we have a double standard here.

True, this is a private organization, and The First Amendment doesn't apply, but it sure shows we only seem to grant the priveledge if it follows the correct speech.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 25, 2011 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"abolishing or even drastically reducing the IRS"

I think we've been hearing that since what, the Reagan era?
If not before.

Have you seen a proposed income tax on a postcard form?
Nope, and I'll not hold my breath.

Or is it more like the 'flat' / 999 claims that don't work out to really be a savings for the majority?
That would be my guess. A shell game to shift the tax burden, and when the truth is revealed, we'll hear a collective "oops, we'll get right on correcting that, er, soon." Yea right.

mrd — October 25, 2011 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like Mr. Special Interest, aka Gov. Perry, figures 9x3=20% flat tax rate. Maybe that will reduce the number of people that will see a tax increase from 84% under Cain's plan to a more palatable percent, say 70% that will seen an increase.

But, needn't you rich folks worry as Perry's plan also has more bennies for you-reduce corp tax rate from 35% to 20%, eliminate capital gains taxes, earned dividend taxes, and estate taxes. You'll also get to sleep better knowing your tax burden has been shifted to the poor and middle class.

We're grateful for the opportunity to assist you millionaires, knowing by shouldering your tax load you will bless us with good paying jobs. Ah trickle down economics, you gotta luv 'it.

Let's all sing:

mrd — October 25, 2011 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

10th anniversary of Patriot Act a day to mourn

By Shahid Buttar, October 25, 2011

Oct. 26 marks the 10th anniversary of the USA Patriot Act, the first among many bipartisan government assaults on the Bill of Rights over the past decade. It is a time to mourn our lost freedoms.

Our constitutional rights have dramatically eroded, turning the “land of the free” into the “land of the easily intimidated.” We have traded liberty for a false impression of security, and we will regret it.

President Bush originally signed the Patriot Act into law on Oct. 26, 2001, and — despite documented, recurring and ongoing abuses — President Obama has signed reauthorization bills no fewer than three times. Even though more than 400 cities and towns, plus eight states, have issued official resolutions repudiating domestic surveillance, the national security juggernaut has continued to steamroll the Constitution.

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie was talking about food additives;

Here's some more.....

Worst Food Additive Ever? It's in Half of All Foods We Eat and Its Production Destroys Rainforests and Enslaves Children
The production of this ingredient causes jaw-dropping amounts of deforestation (and with it, carbon emissions) and human rights abuses.

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Boy oh boy, Basil...between your writes, mine and the writes of Kn_Dalai...people will *(hopefully)* finally be giving it a second thought when selecting their groceries. All I can say to everybody is...

Know what's in the food you buy. Educate yourselves.

I find myself joking around with the checkers at the various stores when they ask if I want paper or plastic and I always tell them...thanks but neither. I'd rather save a dinosaur or a tree and I usually have my recycled cloth bags. Now I know I can take that extra step and save a palm tree or two or three, lol.

And thanks, Basil and Kn_dalai. Both of you have provided excellent information and yet another clue as to what to buy and what not to buy for those of us who are conscientious about what we eat and where it comes from.

I wish a fantastic day to the both of you as well as the rest of the wonderful crowd in the Whine Cellar of the mighty Columbian!!!


goldenoldie — October 25, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

crazytrain — October 25, 2011 at 8:51 a.m.

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 11:54 p.m

Rightwing_Extremist — October 25, 2011 at 7:34 a.m.

I too question why he has been blocked. Compare his C posts (they show on his own fb page) with Jon Alldritt, Mike Tindall, Jessica Bowen, Lew Waters, and a few others.

Also, the C blocks Kage. Yes, I know some of his history, and that he's using a nom de plume, but he raises (for the brief moment it shows) more salient points of discussion than most.

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie, et al.

'til 10 am, tune into Kboo FM . Joel Salatin is on Alt Radio.

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This is a terrific and incredibly easy 11-question test. And it shows results in a number of ways. It clearly indicates that the majority of Americans don't have a clue about what's going on in the world or their own country.
No wonder our politicians take such advantage of us. It's astonishing that so many people got less than half right. These results say that 80% of the (voting) public doesn't have a clue, and that's pretty scary.
Test your knowledge with 11 questions, simple questions if you are up on current events, then be ready to shudder when you see how others did!

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for that link ELISI, glad to see I could/should vote. Pathetic to see how few actually know the answers. And often it is those ignoramuses who do the voting and shout the loudest.

luvithere — October 25, 2011 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — October 24, 2011 at 7:57 p.m.,

Sounds like a chicken or egg question. Why not ask whether the person who pays the inventor for the shovel and pays the digger to use it is more important than both?

The issue in the article is that these CEOs are being paid astronomical salaries, often for running a corporation into the ground. Cisco was cited as an example. And, as Allen notes, the people authorizing these salaries are often their peers - the majority stockholders who decide what to pay them. No one is saying leaders shouldn't be paid more. But should they average 27% pay increases when our economy is tanking?

roger — October 25, 2011 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Greetings basement whiners! Please excuse my absence here of late. Health issues have had me sidelined, but I hope to return to my grouchy old self here when I'm sufficiently provoked.
I couldn't help noticing the story in the print addition of this rag about the Lucky Lager building being targeted for a parking garage for the proposed light rail. The story is conveniently absent from this online version. One of their "in print only" deals. The only mention of the story online is in the form of a poll. You don't suppose it was kept from the website out of fear that those of us who aren't completely in love with their beloved loot rail wet dream would be all over it with criticism?

willbridge — October 25, 2011 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks. I expect most of the basement will do well.

Unfortunately, you don't have to know anything to vote. Voting Rights Act 0f 1965, and a few subsequent relooks, say just about anyone can vote. And some recent restrictions on wanting proof of residence (or citizenship) suggest we're trying to expand suffrage to illegals. (And I'm trying to figure out how to get my cat to decide the issues for me on our latest ballot - I'm still up in the air over C-Tran Prop 1 and the state liquor stores.)

roger — October 25, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think we could file this under 'What's he smoking?'.;=qhm-22Q0PuM

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, we're definitely in a catch-22 with Prop. 1. No matter how you look at it, C-Tran whose Board of Directors run our county, has a perfect little blackmail scheme against us by this proposition (never mind the little rainy day fund they claim is only for times of extreme need...HELLO C-TRAN...that's what it's for!!!) or they'll cut the most important aspects of their service...buses into Portland (so they can make way for LRT to it's dead end) and to cut services to the people who rely on C-Van. Do we vote yes to support their blackmail or vote no and keep our fingers crossed that people wouldn't be left out in the cold? I'm afraid by voting yes on this, it opens the doors up for the Fourth Plain Corridor aesthetically-pleasing project (as well as immediate funding set up for light rail maintenance and operations in Vancouver) which could inadvertently disable each commercial business in the region, increase traffic flow by reduction of through lanes for personal vehicles and reduce the number of bus stops which has the potential for forcing those with current physical issues to walk further distances...on top of the issue of pedestrian safety.

Honestly, the advisory panel at C-Tran should have had the corridor plans streamlined already before this election and it is my opinion that many will vote NO because of their untimely decision.

So yes, I do understand your concern and confusion on how to vote for C-Tran's Proposition 1. I already know how I'm voting on this one. It took a lot of research, a lot of listening to the representatives of C-Tran, RTC, the company representing the design and construction aspects of the BRT vehicles, and a lot of patience with cutting through the fat and seeing the project for what it really is before I made my decision. I will say this that I am a definite supporter of BRT...but is it right for such a design along Fourth Plain Road...and is it right for Vancouver? We can discuss the jobs aspect of such an improvement...but anybody who knows how businesses are contracted out, know the jobs will come when they come...that is, if the companies don't bring in their people from other states...and once they are through, there's no other BRT line to improve and certainly no improvement with LRT should that be approved as well. Chances are, the jobs will be two, maybe three months at a time beyond the road realignments, paving and construction...most likely by Tapani, Nutter or a couple of others I recognize as working in our county...and they already have their employment roster. Yes, there'll be the landscapers, the lighting engineers...again, probably someone like Tice or EC or a couple of others, but again...they have their employment roster.

And what will we have to show for it??? Empty BRT vehicles, empty buses and a lot of disgruntled customers left stranded.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2011 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A good read and it might help a few to understand what a flat tax is and what it would do.

"Taxing the working poor is, at best, an ineffective distraction from the fundamental challenge the country faces. Our problem isn’t that working people get too much from government and pay too little — it’s that income inequalities have now reached extremes destructive to both our economy and our democracy."

Read more:

nailingit — October 25, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"expand suffrage to illegals"

One would think that if there has been some substantive voter fraud, there would be some, you know, actual proof......

But we do have evidence of misinformation being sent out in an effort to misguide; wrong dates, wrong addresses,

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr. Basil Seal - the gentleman you speak of that was on KBOO this he on every morning? I missed him this morning but would like to hear what he has to say.


ELISI, thanks for the exercise for our brains. I actually surprised myself, lol.


Hey willbridge...glad to see you've returned to the cellar where only the finest of Whines are shared.


Nailingit...always good to keep us informed. Sometimes something that sounds too good to be true, usually isn't.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2011 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ 2:18-My bad. The link I gave started at page 3. From the beginning...

nailingit — October 25, 2011 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No, the Alternative Radio segment (Tue. 9-10) has different speakers and issues each week.

The talk is downloadable for $2 at but they may put it on their free podcast (

There are quite a few youtubes featuring him, and several print interviews. The latter can be accessed through ProQuest database through the library.

mr_basil_seal — October 25, 2011 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 9:54 a.m

Thanks EL, I got 9 right, I over guessed on unemployment and the biggest cost to the government. I hope that allows me to vote cause it went in the mail today.

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 25, 2011 at 10:17 a.m

roger — October 25, 2011 at 1:12 p.m

goldenoldie — October 25, 2011 at 2:22 p.m

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 3:36 p.m

Rather surprising at the stats huh? Just shows one that the majority of the people rely on the media for all their info.

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way Hawkeye,

Did you get an email from our congress woman about town halls/coffees?

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I got one and dismissed it. I was a little ticked off about the whole "coffee" thing and the number she invited and the number that actually showed. If it's the one I'm thinking of, didn't she also mention the massive amount of people that actually got jobs from her "job fair"? 30 out of 1700, I don't think I'd wager with those odds but if she thinks that's a win, good for her.

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 6:16 p.m

No not the one I got last night...this one explains why the coffees and small gatherings.

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope, didn't get that one, she must really like you. Lucky you.

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i missed the BoBo saga... 'sup?

DeeLittle — October 25, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 6:28 p.m.


Well I will post her message quick before they remove it..

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian reported that I have held �private� meetings for �screened constituents.� To set the record straight, I have held 12 public community coffees throughout the region and plan to hold at least one in every community in Southwest Washington. I arrange with local diners, coffee shops and community centers, and call thousands of people in the community to join me for coffee. We don�t filter our call lists by party. Democrats, Republicans, and independents get called. If you�re a registered voter, have a phone number and live near the event, you�re on our call list. Every attendee is offered coffee and the chance to speak. We don�t always agree, but everyone is respectful and the dialogue productive.

Some prefer �traditional� town halls, which I�ve also held. At those, citizens� questions were interrupted by hissing and screams of protesters. A meaningful conversation was nearly impossible. When organized interest groups dominate the conversation � many from Portland, Seattle or elsewhere outside our congressional district � local residents lose.

With all due respect, my community meetings aren�t held to benefit Portland or Seattle. I�m trying a different format so Southwest Washingtonians can share their views directly with me. It has been a huge success. Perhaps the Columbian will recognize that these public, nonscreened events do encourage productive and open dialogue after all.

Jaime Herrera Beutler
U.S. Representative

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — October 25, 2011 at 6:29 p.m

I don't know whats going on with old Bobbo, from what I read I guess he must have posted and it got removed. Go figure..

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.

Do any of you know anyone that has been invited?

hawkeye — October 25, 2011 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We have not been, but then again we do not have a landline we have cells phones. Plus we do not just give our numbers out freely nor do we answer when a unknown by us number calls.

As far as friends, family and neighbors we never talk politics with them.

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — October 25, 2011 at 8:05 p.m

I didn't post that email from JHB to discuss all you have brought up. Weeks ago Hawkeye asked if anyone was getting emails from her, I shared tonight, one of the emails I have received.

What I think of JHB is still up in the air, she hasn't been in office IMO long enough to form much of an opinion of her works.
You of all people should know when a jr congress man or woman and same goes for senate is in office, they all tend to vote party line. After and only after being in office for awhile do they gain, lets say "clout" enough to stand on their own two feet and vote they way they feel should be.
Why do you think Edward Kennedy got much of what he wanted?
Or even Patti Murray? They have the years in "clout", go back to when they first took office and look how they voted. They too were told how to vote at first also.

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also Allen, a jr congress or senate is like a private in the military, what they do, gains no respect. It's only after they become sgts do they gain any respect.

ELISI — October 25, 2011 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Huff chatted for an hour about religion and guns with officers, volunteering many details about what he was planning to do in Tennessee."

"Huff, 41, was armed with a Colt .45 and an assault rifle on April 20, 2010..."

Huff himself testified, fighting back tears as he told jurors how hurt he was that "my government has called me a potential domestic terrorist." [Man, these baggers sure come apart when the chips are down! LOL!]

nailingit — October 25, 2011 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I also think that many of these big business executives receive too much compensation. That’s nothing more than my personal feeling. But it’s a private sector issue. As far as I’m concerned, government has no say in the matter. That money is coming out of the shareholders pockets. In the case of stock options, it is diluting the share value. However, this assumes that the CEO and et. al. perform some… somewhat, perfunctory function, which could be done by a host of others, and that their particular talents, as it were, do NOT add commensurate value to the business. Certainly not the case with some, such as Steve Jobs, who came back to Apple in the late 90’s, and turned a business in decline, into a business which is a mover and shaker, and vies for the title of the biggest company in the world, in terms of market cap. It is the business of the company directors, and ultimately the shareholder. No doubt, some think that that compensation is coming out of the employee’s pockets. I do not agree with that, but that’s another issue.

A certain corporation has two employees. One is the CEO, and the other is the guy that physically gets his hands dirty. That corporation share price is $10, and stays at $10 for years. The CEO is ousted, and a new guy is brought in. The new CEO does, whatever he does, and the business takes off. The share price is now $100. The worker’s pay has gone from $1/something to $1.50/something while the CEO’s pay has gone form $2/something to $45/something.

So, just who loses here?

I thoroughly reject any notion, that wealth is some static thing, the distribution of which should be decided by government bodies, boards, panels or commissions of people. I suggest that NEW wealth is created by invention, innovation and entrepreneurship. Which expands the economy and increases the standard of living.

Problem is, for this country, non-tariff trade with countries which have such large disparate worker’s wages or other differences, has sent this countries wealth, and jobs “over there.” The CEO compensation is a drop in the bucket compared to this bigger issue.

kn_dalai — October 25, 2011 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is wayyy cooler than Tim The Tool Man Taylor

Rightwing_Extremist — October 26, 2011 at 2:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It gave me a headache, RW_E. Interesting concept for the celebration of October 31st, though.

goldenoldie — October 26, 2011 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*You of all people should know when a jr congress man or woman and same goes for senate is in office, they all tend to vote party line.*

Perhaps Jamie should drop the "independent voice of SW Wa" claim. And, in my opinion, that's just one of her dogs that doesn't hurt any longer. She's had long enough to show her true colors-she's a career minded politician with her need for tenure exceeding her need to represent her constituents-all of us. If she wants to vote lockstep with her party, call it like it is, and run on that, otherwise, she's just another two-faced politician, and we've got too many as it is.

mrd — October 26, 2011 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A great read and speaks to OWS. I wish Obama would bring Reich into his inner circle. Let's get big money out of politics!

"I doubt the president will be condemning the Street's antics, or calling for a resurrection of Glass-Steagall and a breakup of the biggest banks. Democrats are still too dependent on the Street's campaign money."

nailingit — October 26, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 26, 2011 at 7:45 a.m

She is no different than any of them, be they a R or D or I or L. They ALL do it. To single out just one, just because that one isn't of your party of choice.. shows IMO the people need to open eyes and mind and see that each and everyone who is elected votes party lines. None of them are immune.
As soon as people come to their senses and realize that the government does not create jobs, people do,.. they will get off this bandwagon of harping and actually encourage the elected to do their job and not care what party they are from.

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, harping will get us no where. It takes action.
Phone calls, mail, email over and over and over.
Sitting on ones duff and playing the blame game will get nothing. Have to hit them hard and continue to hit hard with those phone calls, emails, mail.
The old saying....Action speaks louder than words is so very true.

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Something to research: Feds order YouTube to remove videos regarding gov't criticism. 1st Amendment anyone?

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m.

Maybe you could cite the story; and then actually check to see if what they are saying is actually what you were trying to say.

mr_basil_seal — October 26, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen- Jaime Herrera-Beutler has done nothing at the national level to promote job growth as promised. She's marched lock step with Boehner, Cantor and others. We need to play the "blame game"! That's what elections are all about. mrd nailed it.

"She's had long enough to show her true colors-she's a career minded politician with her need for tenure exceeding her need to represent her constituents-all of us."

Looking back to 2005 during the Bush administration, to interning for tea party fave Joe Zarelli. The town hall/phone hall format proved to embarrass her, and explains the lack of them. Just another freshman that rode the wave of low info voter discontent in 2010. Only in Jamie's case she benifitted from a fellow republicans (Richard Curtis) sex scandal. Here's today's job approval ratings for Jaime and her cohorts.

nailingit — October 26, 2011 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Too bad we can't flush liberal Democrats down like this!

scotty — October 26, 2011 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — October 26, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.

Yeah, that MIGHT be what was being referred to....

But, did you go check the reports?

That was the "check to see if what they are saying is actually what you were trying to say." part of the post......

mr_basil_seal — October 26, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*She is no different than any of them, be they a R or D or I or L.*

Yes she is, she's the only one I can or can't vote for in the house.

I went to govtrack to check her record for most of October. In a boneload of votes, I found one & only one vote where she didn't vote with the Republican majority, but that was only a 51% Republican split.

But almost in every case, 99% or 100% of Republicans voted the same way, so maybe it's not just her. But I don't like the way any of the numbers stack up, R's or D's. From where I sit, it'll take a bulletproof majority to get virtually anything passed-either way. That sucked when the R's had it under Bush, and also when the D's had it under Obama. The R's played their agenda while things went to hell in a handbasket, and the D's fiddled with health care while the economy burned.

mrd — October 26, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 26, 2011 at 2:39 p.m

Your last bing bing you hit the nail on the head you win first prize!

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen @ 1:17...Anyone or any article other than Alex Jones/Prison Planet? You can get a feel for propaganda the hard right eats up. Chalk the "remove video" question to just one more ... fart bomb in the basement.

Somebody open a window!

"Mainstream sources have described Jones as a conservative[4][5][6][7] and as a right-wing conspiracy theorist.[8][9][10][11]
Jones sees himself as a libertarian, and rejects being described as a right-winger.[12] He has also called himself a paleoconservative.[13] In a promotional biography he is described as an "aggressive constitutionalist".[14][15]
Alex Jones has been the center of many controversies. Jones has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing[16] and September 11"-Wiki

nailingit — October 26, 2011 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It was nice of us taxpayers to foot $1.2M of the $1.6M price tag of upgrading Wafertech's cooling systems in order for them to annually move $200k in reduced energy costs to the Tiawanese corporation's bottom line. I don't think they had to dangle the job carrot to BPA or even put on a dog and pony show for the local yokels. That's unfortunate, for as bad as the show may have been, at least we'd have seen something for $1.2M.

mrd — October 27, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

scotty — October 26, 2011 at 1:20 p.m

Or maybe some of those "tea party" bozos.

hawkeye — October 27, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Insight with some of that "right wing social engineering" Newt Gingrich was complaining about a few months ago.

nailingit — October 27, 2011 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"A national poll conducted for TIME on Oct. 9 and 10 found that if Clinton were the Democratic nominee for President in 2012, she would best Mitt Romney 55% to 38%, Rick Perry 58% to 32% and Herman Cain 56% to 34% among likely voters in a general election. The same poll found that President Obama would edge Romney by just 46% to 43%, Perry by 50% to 38% and Cain by 49% to 37% among likely voters."

Hard to say if she'll ever run for Pres - but if she does, Bill needs to keep his mouth shut. She was probably going to win in 2008 until North Carolina.

roger — October 27, 2011 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Mounting tensions between the Hells Angels and Vagos motorcycle clubs erupted in January 2010, when members of each club fought each other over territory at a Starbucks cafe in Santa Cruz, Calif. Santa Cruz Deputy Police Chief Steve Clark analyzed the situation for Reuters, saying, "It was all about who would be allowed to hang out at the Starbucks downtown... Only in Santa Cruz would you have biker wars over who's going to control pumpkin spice lattes.""

It sure would be fun if Alleycat was here to ask which rule in The Way of The Biker (or whatever) covers protecting your source of triple shot espresso coffee drinks.

roger — October 27, 2011 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Stephen Colbert took Christians to task Wednesday (Oct. 26) for sullying the sanctity of All Hallows Eve by attempting to create a Halloween alternative without all those "ungodly" symbols. But Christians scared silly by Halloween are missing the point, Colbert says: "Jesus was the original zombie.""

After I quit laughing (last night) I had a thought - the Fox crowd will be all over this. Didn't hear anything out of Gretchen and the boys during the 20 minutes they got this morning. Maybe Hannity will make up for their oversight?

roger — October 27, 2011 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Terry Jones, a controversial pastor who has made national headlines for publicly burning the Quran, is mounting a campaign for president of the United States...The campaign, named "Stand Up America Now," aims to propel him to the White House largely on a seven-point platform which includes deporting all "illegals" and immediately bringing all of the troops home, according to ABC Action News."

The rest of the seven point platform looks to be directly from the Conservative Republican playbook. Wonder if he'll get invited to join the debates? They'll need a replacement for Perry, who said he's going to skip them.

roger — October 27, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sure is quiet here tonight. Was there a squabble some time after 12:30 that got everyone blocked and erased?

roger — October 27, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Roger, did you see that Glenn Beck is buying an old church and turning it into a TV studio? I think he actually thinks that somebody wants to see him on TV. I wonder if he has signed a network yet, maybe SYFY.

hawkeye — October 27, 2011 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen — October 27, 2011 at 9 p.m

First off the OWS protesters have every right as anyone in this country to protest whatever they want within the lines of the law..

What I don't agree with them on is..
1. They don't have a permit, it is the law to have one.
I understand that each town, city has different rules regarding how many people are allowed without a permit. But it is the law to have one. So if the group can't abide by the laws set in place for all of us to follow, how can they expect the elected to listen?

2. I don't agree with allowing them to camp out in the city parks.
This destroys city property that ALL tax payers pay for. Will the protesters replace the grass etc and return the parks back to their original state after the protests are done? I highly doubt it, the parks will be left for the taxpayers to cough up the extra taxes to re-landscape the parks. Plus the cost of LEO's patrolling the areas, being called out for fights, and other problems. All at extra costs to the city that effects the taxpayers in the end.

3. The young children that have been dragged to the protests.
The protests are no place for children and parent/s that drag their children to events like this, is no better in my eyes than those that neglect or mentally abuse their children. It is just plain not safe or healthy for children to be involved.
People say those connected to the KKK brain wash their children, well IMO taking your child to a protest is doing the same.

ELISI — October 27, 2011 at 11:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*The protests are no place for children and parent/s that drag their children to events like this*

*People say those connected to the KKK brain wash their children, well IMO taking your child to a protest is doing the same.*

Same thing I thought when I saw many children with their parents waving signs and chanting alongside the hwy thru Battleground supporting the war in Iraq. Disgusting.

mrd — October 28, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 28, 2011 at 7:23 a.m

I agree.
How do you feel about those who drag their children along to events like...say

A protest to support abortion?, or against abortion?

There used to be people who stood in Orchards at 112th and the overpass of SR500 with anti abortion signs. They were disgusting pictures of aborted babies. Now I do not support abortion unless the mother's life is at stake. So don't get me wrong here, but I found those pictures to be disgusting and out of line. As a grandparent, I had to explain to my
grandson, what they were and why the people were doing what they were. Try to explain THAT to a five yr old.

As I said, children should never ever be dragged to protests of any kind, for or against.

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Try to explain THAT to a five yr old.*

Don't know if I could, glad I didn't have to.

I'm kinda like you-I used to support basically abortion on demand, but not so much anymore. I'm not convinced that the real issue is a woman's right to her own body. It's a little more involved than that due to legal ramifications. Because the time when a blob of cells actually becomes a life is so indeterminable, it seems as though it would be best to err on the side of caution.

mrd — October 28, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 28, 2011 at 8:39 a.m

I was on the fence about the issue for a long time, then I met with a few women who had, had an abortion.

They all felt guilty of having one. It was heartbreaking to see what they were going through.
Drs can pick up a heartbeat as soon as 8 weeks.
Plus found out that most use abortion as a form of birth control.
One woman told me she'd rather go through an abortion than use birth control.
This just isn't right, to me that shows absolutely no regards to human life with an attitude like that.

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think there is a time and place for abortions. Using it as birth control shouldn't be allowed, but, if the baby is going to be a vegetable or have serious health issues because the mother is a drugger, etc., then abortion should be mandatory. Then if the mother gets pregnant again, it should be required by law that she be fixed so she can't do it again. This will probably never happen because we have too many bleeding hearts who think with their emotions and not their brains. To these people, I say, if you are so concerned, then you and your fellow bleeding hearts should support the babies and mothers so they won't be a burden on the rest of the taxpayers.

cranky — October 28, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


steve jobs was adopted. what if he'd been aborted?

i'm old enough (stop laughing!) to remember when roe v. wade was decided by the supreme court. basically their decision said, "we don't know WHAT to do, so we're leaving it up to each woman'.

personally, i could no more abort than i could kill my child as it slept. after all, what's the REAL difference between killing it a month before, or a month after it's born?

people like "dr." tiller and places like planned parenthood should be illegal. simple as that. they have no more concern for the object of their actions that mengele did.

but for the sad, desperate, pregnant woman...that's a different story. most abortions (don't have the cite, but i COULD dig it up again) are not by choice..they're coerced. by boyfriends, parents, employers. even housing can be used to force one.

i'm a supporter of requiring all women who intend to abort to view a sonogram of their baby before the procedure's done. after all, if it's 'just a blob of tissue', what's the problem?

DeeLittle — October 28, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not a big fan of abortion but since it is legal, I think it should only be available in the first two months. After that, if you don't want the kid, you should be made to carry full term and put it up for adoption sight unseen. And I agree with cranky, if it happens more than once, you get your tubes tied. There is just too much freedom in this area. Maybe people should have to get a license to have a kid.

hawkeye — October 28, 2011 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Poll Shows Americans Want to Redistribute the Wealth!

By Matthew Rothschild

... 66 percent of the American public feels that “the money and wealth in this country should be more evenly distributed.”

So let’s redistribute wealth. These are vastly popular demands—and they may get more popular after people see a new study that shows the top 1 percent ballooning its income by 275 percent from 1979 to 2007.

mr_basil_seal — October 28, 2011 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***but i COULD dig it up again)** are not by choice..they're coerced. by boyfriends, parents, employers. even housing can be used to force one.*

I think you better.......

My bet; your source will be almost as good as the one supporting ELISI's October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. claim.

mr_basil_seal — October 28, 2011 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The C could save some money on comics and just post more rw shenanigans...

**Anti-Gay National Organization for Marriage Co-Opts Photos of Obama Events, Tries to Pass Them Off as NOM Rallies**
LGBTQ rights blog Good As You notes that there's something... odd about this image on the National Organization for Marriages' New Hampshire for Marriage website:

Namely, the image is not of an NOM event, as the cruddy Photoshop job suggests. It's a Reuters photo from an Obama rally, of all things.

mr_basil_seal — October 28, 2011 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, somebody has a bug up his bum. Sporty, is that your "other" name?

buzzkiller — October 28, 2011 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen, the public is tired of being ripped off. Wells Fargo and others don't want the mass exit of customers that B of A has experienced in the last month. The rate of new credit union customers has increased enormously in the past month. I think Onpoint has gained something like 60%.

hawkeye — October 28, 2011 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**My bet; your source will be almost as good as the one supporting ELISI's October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. claim.
mr_basil_seal — October 28, 2011 at 5:03 p.m**

First off THAT wasn't my claim, get a clue, I had heard that and asked.."1st Amendment anyone?" HELLLLOOOO
Thinking someone with a IQ of more than a slug would have more info about it..but I see THAT didn't happen, now did it?

Some people need to climb off their snot nose high horse, always got to right attitude, might get more people to actually want to communicate with them.

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


He's riding through the desert on a horse with no name...LOL

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When you lack substance and leadership, you can always depend on Fox News.

nailingit — October 28, 2011 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, Allan, et al, I think the debit card fiasco was a public relations nightmare for the banks. A bit surprised they are drawing back so fast as it works in their favor when people use credit cards instead of debit cards. The banks make more that way.
But yes, people have left the building and went to credit unions. I think we are just seeing the start of the exodus. Much more to come.
And Allan, according to Bobbo and ilk, they do not want the country to fail. Just the opposite: they think some of us want that. They think they are right in their take on things; just like we think we are right with ours (and naturally, we are).

luvithere — October 28, 2011 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

First off THAT wasn't my claim, get a clue, I had heard that and asked.."1st Amendment anyone?" HELLLLOOOO Thinking someone with a IQ of more than a slug would have more info about it..but I see THAT didn't happen, now did it?.....

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 6:28 p.m

well, you didn't bother to bring any source. Someone else did.

And it was..... well, it was typical misconstrued data...

mr_basil_seal — October 28, 2011 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

and THAT is a typical high horse comment..

You ask for a source? How about next time anyone asks me about something to see if I can get an answer for them.. I'll be sure to post their name and address on here as a source, how's that? Then when I get sued for using someone's real name without permission as a source, I can have you subpoenaed, how's that?

Doesn't matter what anyone posts on here it is never good enough, and 99.99% of the time if you disagree you come up with a typical..."source"
Do you ever just once in your life think for one moment that people like to just discuss issues, or subjects etc and not have to provide a "source"? People are not walking encyclopedias, news service or a science manual. This sure isn't a class room and your are not the teacher.

ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 11:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dementia (taken from Latin, originally meaning "madness", from de- "without" + ment, the root of mens "mind") is a serious loss of cognitive ability in a previously unimpaired person, beyond what might be expected from normal aging. It may be static, the result of a unique global brain injury, or progressive, resulting in long-term decline due to damage or disease in the body. Although dementia is far more common in the geriatric population, it can occur before the age of 65, in which case it is termed "early onset dementia".[1]

nailingit — October 28, 2011 at 11:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 28, 2011 at 11:59 p.m.

Nailingit, care to explain why you had a sudden urge to provide a medical training segment into the discussion since there was no mention of dementia in any of the comments...or is this one of your little private belittling jokes again?

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 5:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Allan,
my comment was NOT about any party. It was strictly about people's beliefs that they are right and the other side is always wrong. I meant that there is no way in heck that anybody could ever change the belief of Bobbo et al. The reality is set in stone and all evidence otherwise will be ignored. Now, I think people of all walks have that tendency, some just are open to accepting facts.
I agree, both parties have not done much for us. We are getting ripped off.

luvithere — October 29, 2011 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes I agree. The turnips got nothing left.

luvithere — October 29, 2011 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One of the better articles I've read explaining Initiative 1183.

What I find hard to fathom is why we are willing to spend tens of millions to support greater access to alcohol, a habit with proven detrimental consequences which we as a whole have to pay for, and we are just as opposed to the legalization of marijuana, which most studies show has far fewer detrimental affects.

Money, I suppose.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Two thoughts.

Read the description of the euthanasia process employed, and then go read accounts of why Nazi Germany switched from using carbon monoxide to Xylon B in their gas chambers. Eerily similar.

We, as a self-proclaimed superior race, have failed miserably in our responsibility to this planet. Dogs (and cats, and other domestic animals) rely on us to do what's right for them. Unless you're a legitimate breeder, PLEASE spay and neuter. And if you're just looking for a 4-legged companion, then visit a shelter and "adopt" - there are plenty of candidates.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

high horse comment
ELISI — October 28, 2011 at 11:49 p.m.

You posted :

Something to research: Feds order YouTube to remove videos regarding gov't criticism. 1st Amendment anyone?

ELISI — October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m.

A claim that was obviously false; a claim that took about 3 seconds to 'research'. You could as well as typed '
Something to research: Scientist says moon is made of green cheese and was admonished. 1st Amendment anyone?'

And you've not bothered to bring up any resource. No attempt to bring something reliable; just let Allen and nailingit's posts stand with no reply.
And all we pointed out was that DeeLittle's October 28, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. claim was just as valid.

Just used your example as comparison.

mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 5:44 a.m

I think he is trying to tell us he has a problem and needs understanding and patience.

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You really do need to add more bran to your diet season leaf.
I'm wondering, do you ask for a source of your partner afterwards?

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"goldenoldie" @ 5:44 No. And nothing is "private" as I don't send out private e-mails to coalesce against those I don't agree with.

"elisi"-"I'm wondering, do you ask for a source of your partner afterwards?" Not sure what you meant by that but have an idea. Please quit getting personal and insulting people because you're challenged to present an argument.

Let's have a good day in the basement. Coherent speech, presenting ideas, but please, let's hold off on the insults. This is why I give as little personal info as possible (I've learned). Some of these folks jump on you like white on rice. I asked the basement a couple of weeks ago to to report on Occupy Vancouver as I couldn't attend due to a family obligation and was vilified for it...just pathetic...

Be kind to one another. It never surprises me that those that trumpet good values, so often are lacking them, because it happens so, so often.

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 8:20 a.m.

Hmmm, attempting to insult rather than attempt something substantive:

Other posters with similar tendency:

Lew Waters

Ray Menlo

Bob Larimer


mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*eyeroll* *cough*

Double standard if I ever saw it..

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit at 8:45 AM: Civility rules! Good reminder.

roger at 8:12 am: You are an informed advocate for our 4 legged buddies.

I love the work of the Pixie Project in Portland, one of the many good animal protection groups we are lucky to have in our region. When the economy sours, the need for adoptions skyrockets. Shelter animals make good pets.

manthou — October 29, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Desperate Measures.......

**The Myth of Income Equality, Courtesy of AEI
New CBO data show what (almost) everybody already knows**
By Ryan Chittum

*5 reasons why income inequality is a myth — and Occupy Wall Street is wrong*

This, at least the first part of it, is false in a you’ve-got-to-be-kidding-me kind of way, which is the whole point. That kind of headline draws you to read the post, which proceeds to give seemingly sound (but ultimately misleading) evidence for why inequality isn’t growing in order to plants seeds of doubt about whether that whole inequality thing is really a problem.

mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, thanks for the clarification. If you would like to discuss more about the issues of Dementia, I'd be more than happy to join in. It's amazing how so many people can throw in the word "Dementia" to anything they see fit to attach a label; but the fact of the matter is, Dementia is a word that is abused in our society due to the lack of knowledge behind the condition...and there's much more to it than just what is written in medical text. Care to discuss the emotional aspects of dementia? The frustration, the heartache...the feelings family members are overwhelmed with when their loved one knows what they are thinking and what others are saying about them but are unable to express?

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 9:20 a.m.

Care to cite your sources???

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Insufferable bores and narcissism abounds.

Post office and Christmas shopping here I come.

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning manthou! I wanted to echo your appreciation for roger's post. Most of us don't stop and think about the bad economy/crap that rolls downhill doesn't stop with us.

roger @ 7:57...I've wondered the same thing for decades, and the answer always comes up the same as yours.

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hard to believe it's already that time of year to start thinking about the holidays. It seems we just started summer, then Fall hit with a vengeance.

"""And nothing is "private" as I don't send out private e-mails to coalesce against those I don't agree with."""

Did I ask you if you were??? Excuse my verbiage. I should have said "personal" instead of "Private." So to discuss more about the issues of Dementia...or did you forget that I asked you???

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 10:17...No & no.

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well that's fine and dandy, Nailingit. Here's a little lesson for you on Dementia for which you failed to mention.

It is a condition which can be caused by other health problems in the body including Thyroid disease, Vitamin deficiency, Brain tumor, Intoxication from medications, Chronic infection, Anemia and Severe Depression. Dementia is not necessarily a disease of the aged. Dementia however, is a symptom of Alzheimer's Disease...typically a condition of aging. One must know the difference before reaching a conclusion, Nailingit. Anyhow, certain tests can provide more clues to the origin of the onset of Dementia like tests to determine the B12 level in your blood, blood ammonia levels, chem-20, CSF analysis, Liver Function tests, head CT, serum electrolyte tests, and level of thyroid stimulating hormone testing.

Also Nailingit, mild forgetfulness does not necessarily mean the person suffers from Dementia OR Alzheimer's. Unless certain tests are performed on a person who is suspected to suffer from dementia or even Alzheimer's, one can be held liable for a misdiagnosis if it did turn out there was a chemical imbalance in the person which could have been easily treated and the symptoms of dementia disappeared once the treatment was performed.

How do I know this??? Let's just say I've had a few friends in my life that were not elderly and who suffered symptoms which were misdiagnosed BEFORE the tests were run to determine the condition and have had to go through HELL trying to reverse the error of the physician who took it upon themselves to make the diagnosis through visual perception only. I have also gone through the pain and heartache of witnessing a loved one who suffered from dementia (YES suffered) which was confirmed by testing...and the obvious lack of skilled training by health care professionals who for the most part shrugged off the condition and treated the patients like they were on a production line rather than treating the individual cases.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.

Oh, how so?

mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This sounds a bit scary to me. A way of the future? Think Metropolis (the movie). Are we to become nothing more than worker drones without reason to advance? The "capitalists" creating the very system they vilify.

"Marchionne didn't say how he would create the structure. But it's likely he'll try to reduce the pay of top-tier workers. General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co. could follow suit, and pay could be cut for most of the UAW's 112,000 members. The automaker wanted to negotiate a single-wage system as part of the contract approved by workers on Wednesday, but decided that it was more important to get a deal signed quickly, Marchionne said."

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I must've hit a nerve with two others who love to comment...who indulge themselves with condescending remarks to those who they don't agree.

Must be something I said???

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd be more concerned about experiencing something in the way of "Contagion" rather than "Metropolis."

BTW, did you hear about extending the HPV vaccine for boys??? Anybody see the movie..."I AM LEGEND"??? Guess what caused the problem??? You got it! A cancer vaccine.


goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 29, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.

Oh, how so?

mr_basil_seal — October 29, 2011 at 10:49 a.m.

Well, if it were me going Christmas shopping and had to get gifts to family members before the Christmas rush...I'd be headed to the post office with those gifts, too. Either that or she has bills to drop off or snail mail to loved ones, wouldn't you think, Basil??? And how so...??? Hmm..., probably by car or truck! I guess it would be possible to go by bus if you hit the schedules just right...but then again, some people live within walking distance as well. That would be a good cardiac workout - a bit chilly but a good work out. (s)

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good mornin' Allen. Hey, your link won't post and I think it's because it shows up with the little dots at the end rather than the rest of the link. If you could manually key in the link, it might show up. Also, you could set up a tiny url which would automatically connect to the link.

From what I've seen in your comment though...aren't both the R and D parties the parties of Big Government??? I'd think so. Maybe once I read the article, I'll know what you mean.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Lou Brancaccio, just what have you got to say about that cartoon depiction you have of the people on Occupy Wallstreet versus big government? Are you stereotyping the unemployed? The people who have lost their homes to big banks? The folks who have lost everything? You're making them look like '70's hippies fighting the government over the Vietnam War rather than middle class Americans who are struggling to survive. If you don't know by now that the "Hippie Class" you are trying to represent with your picture are NOT the majority in the group...then you are party in part to the pollution spewed by the press which is clearly trying to diffuse what the folks at the Occupy events are trying to do. Have you ever thought for a split second why some of the people don't have the fancy clothes on...why they look tattered and torn, Lou??? I suppose you also picture the same "Hippie Class" at the Vancouver even where a canned food drive is under way today???

As Gomer Pyle USMC once said....For Shame, For shame, For shame, Lou.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Allen: Ten to One, a lot of people don't see it that way and the constant controversy we witness daily supports my opinion. Wouldn't you say???

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Stated, Allen, Well Stated.

BTW, I was sending my comments directly to Lou's email. He assured me he is reading our comments. If we were "honored" by his presence in the Whine Cellar, that would be a surprise. That's okay though. I really don't expect a response by a member of the press, let alone the editor. Maybe he'll surprise us.

Oh where oh where could editor Lou be? Oh where oh where can he be??? With his liittle I-phone and his little I-prose...Oh where oh where can he be???

song over (thank goodness, lol)

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not sure why dementia is a topic to argue over.

Anyhow, excellent info in your 10:48 post. An addition is that as people live longer, we can expect the incidence to increase. And as you rightly point out, proper diagnosis is critical - many forms can be treated.

Please keep in mind that up until the '70s, dementia was also applied to schizophrenia. Given some of the other conversations going on prior to Nailingit's post that started this, perhaps that's the definiton that should be applied to his remark?

roger — October 29, 2011 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Reference The Columbian (Lou, Matt or other) monitoring our posts - I suspect this is just an occasional cursory check. For the most part we're self-policing and have agreed to maintain a degree of civility when we argue. I'm thinking their main focus is on the facebook side. People have become very insulting with their comments, and Matt delivers frequent warnings. Also, if you read the comments, people often address someone who "isn't there" - my guess is the comment that elicited the response was deleted. And after Bob Larimer was axed, several others that were regulars disappeared - often replaced by others who made similar arguments. So, I'm thinking their hands are full keeping that crowd under control. So much for whatever that grand experiment was all about.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Are we, as a society, becoming addicted to conflict? Do we create drama to feed a fix? Do we start arguments to fill a void?

We have seen a dramatic increase in co-worker conflicts at my job that have crossed the line to bullying. Glad I am not the HR director. :)

I saw this interesting blog post that she shared with me, however, only last week. I had asked myself many of the questions posed in it. If you only read as far as the blog title and learn the meaning of a fantastic underused word, it will be worth your time:

manthou — October 29, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I haven't paid much attention to Occupy Oakland, so went looking for articles after reading Allen's post at 1:12. It does look ugly for the Oakland PD - their Mayor has apologized, and the Chief of Police has started an "independent investigation" and is making comments that indicate another police department (called in to help) may be at fault. Meanwhile, it seems that many on the national level see the focus of the movement shifting from NYC to Oakland as a result of this incident.

Most of the articles I found are pretty much biased, e.g. The Guardian has been pro-Occupy from the start. I did find a source that raeds like they're trying to be neutral - The San Jose Mercury News.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Editor Lou kept referring to this newspaper as one that supported his facebook transition. Read the few comments after the article and decide for yourself.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In my opinion the conflicts at work have been germinating for a long time. Our evaluation systems tend to rank or compare our performance with our peers or coworkers, and compensation is (supposedly) determined accordingly. We pay lip service to teamwork, but the ones who get ahead tend to be the ones who "just happen" to steer conversation in meetings toward the shortcomings of others. Management holds little conflict resolution training seminars that preach things like going for a win-win, but their actions tend to reinforce the negativity. This was something someone could live with, if astute enough to recognize these actions and act/react accordingly. But with the downsizing of the past few years, one can't take such a "que sera, sera" approach - your job and quality of life is at stake. Hence the escalation in overt animosity.

Sound good?

roger — October 29, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 29, 2011 at 12:52 p.m.

Hehehe...Roger, nothing gets past you today! Of course there was no reason to "argue" regarding dementia. I was merely pointing out a fact that an unsupported comment was made regarding you recognized the comment was meant to be construed as a snide remark towards a previous entry by another person, I did too and I'm pretty sure others did as well. The reasoning behind the originator of the dementia comment ignoring discussion with me as I pointed out facts behind dementia and the implications of such derogatory statements without facts to support is misleading and can be considered as grounds for disciplinary action. I believe that is why the silence, except for a couple of "No's" was received by the originator and I believe my message was clearly understood by that very person.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2011 at 1:49 p.m.

Manthou, there's no doubt in my mind that our society is suffering from a massive conflict addiction. I guess we could call that a condition metastasized by modern conveniences, television and movies, lack of understanding in relationships and what it means to be together "till death do us part," and the need for speed in our everyday lives. Respect for each other has all but gone down the tube as witnessed on any given day, especially on the roadways during rush hour and as you recognized..."at the office" with so many jobs on the line and job fairness and equality.

Have we brought it on ourselves??? Are we to blame for our weaknesses and the temptation to rise to the top as quickly as possible, stepping on each others' toes as we climb that ladder, pass that vehicle to be first???

Civility is still there...too bad we have to look really hard for it sometimes.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also it really that important for folks in a comment section of a community news site to have to substantiate our comments with citations from other links which from any given perspective...could be just another opinion? For centuries, facts have been debunked and opinions have been criticized, even dissecting statements of others apart in order to substantiate one's own point of view.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"...and the implications of such derogatory statements without facts to support is misleading and can be considered as grounds for disciplinary action."


roger — October 29, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Too wordy, huh??? In other words, the guy can't make a written or verbal assumption based on limited knowledge. It can get him in a bunch of doo doo.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie @ 3:02,

Amen. I've been saying this for quite some time. And to be fair, so has nailingit. I've also noted the ones who do insist on references tend to pooh-pooh those used by the ones they argue with. Whatever.

I've had a verbal run-in or two with nailingit, but also have found we can carry on quite friendly conversations as long as we don't let yesterday interfere with today. (Please reflect on this for a moment.) And nailingit plays a positive role in maintaining the overall relevance of this forum. I read his post to be directed to the likes of Bob Larimer, TCB (whoever that may be), and the pedantic ideologues of that ilk. If your response to him was in fact directed toward Mr. Basil - well I also missed that possibility.

I guess I can close my Rodney King impersonation now.

And this CAPTCHA is getting really stupid. I've had characters my keyboard doesn't support, reverse characters, and now an inkblot. Or is that part of the test - to see if we just hit refresh, or if we "get confused" and go away?

roger — October 29, 2011 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, a couple of comments.

I wrote an email to Matt regarding the problem of characters which we have no ability to duplicate and he said he's working on it.


TCB was Bob Larimer's nick name for "Top Commenter Bob" courtesy of the FB applications and clever ones who comment in the Whine Cellar.

Regarding the rest of your have an absolute right to your opinion.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And I will respect your right to your opinions, and will always defend your right to voice them against those who try to silence those who don't share them.

On a lighter note, the frost got my cherry tomato plant. The birds are having a good time with the ones that are still hanging. And my cats are highly agitated because they can't catch them. No idea what these birds are, but they're smart enough to post a lookout.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"share" should have been "agree with" - or something like that.

roger — October 29, 2011 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I also noticed that Larimer is a prolific commenter at the San Jose Mercury.

I have a question for those here and Matt...On the FB side what puts a person at the top of the list when the comments are listed in "Social Ranking"? is it how many friends or how many people "Like" there post? Or how many comments they make on a site? Just curious.

pdxtech91 — October 29, 2011 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pdxtech91, I've often wondered that myself, given that there seems to be a lot of "Top Commenter(s)" listed. Maybe it has something to do with the voting of their comments and clicking on "Like."

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The frost nailed the rest of my garden this last week, Roger... but we had picked all the green tomatoes. About a dozen plum tomatoes still sit on my fireplace and are slowly ripening. Amazing basil was untouched which is odd because basil is quite sensitive to cooler weather. My little tidbit of advice for Clark County gardeners is...grow short season tomatoes...determinates...the ones which don't need staking.

And Roger....thanks. I will reciprocate the same when it comes to defending the rights of everyone to voice their opinions without the needless attempts to discredit by others through less than civil means.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I also expect others to remind me when I'm out of line as long as insults are not included.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2011 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What a..different conversation this afternoon. goldenoldie I wasn't aware I left some unanswered questions. Your insistence on discussing dementia, or any subject does not require my opinion. I merely gave definition to dementia as inspired by a few prior comments as roger alluded to. My "unsupported comment" was a quote from Wikipedia. I meant to source (as per usual) but forgot. Nothing nefarious I assure you. I don't see the quote as a "derogatory statement" as you referred to @ 2:47.

I'm also curious as to what you meant when "...and the implications of such derogatory statements without facts to support is misleading and can be considered as grounds for disciplinary action."

Not because it's wordy as you alluded to with roger, but the content is strange. Like it was copied from an HR document? And speaking of HR...

manthou- It's like there is something in the air!

roger- Agreed with captcha! Thank you for your affability.

There's gotta be some real news going on today!

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Can anyone wrap their heads around this story? It sounds like the keystone cops meet Connie & Blyde!

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I must say, I have never had "social intercourse" with an LEO that didn't leave me wanting more. These cops are always leaving their cars running. A few months back a similar incident happened in the Hazel Dell area. Protocol had to go by the wayside somewhere! If equipment in car is dependent on motor running, a fix should be applied. I remember this was being discussed in the hazel Dell incident comments awhile back.

I have the utmost regard for the person doing my taxes, servicing my car, banking my money etc. But I'll say something if a screw up happens. We tend to gives cops a free ride because the job they chose involves a higher risk factor than most.

This might seem funny in the "keystone" context, but the taxpayers have two wanted on felony warrants loose in our community that should be locked up. I just read the FB comments on this! Everything from they were occupy portland criminals and should have been shot.....

I know I'm most likely alone in my Monday morning quarterback critique of these "LEO's". If so...I'm good with that.

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Correction. Escaped in own car. Not quite as bad, I guess. Story seems disjointed. (no pun intended:)) They have updated. God Bless our Gov!!! AAAHHHH! Cats and dogs living together!

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi kids, went to the coast today. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAY! I got my birthday/Christmas present from me to me early this year and thought I'd load up my lovely Wife and Father in law up in the new ride and try it out. We went down to Salem and across to Lincoln City. Stopped in at Chinook Winds hotel Restaurant (across from the casino) for lunch, they do it right there, and then drove to Depot Bay and then back home. What a great trip and it was so nice to get away.

Anyway, that was my day. Good to see you all.

hawkeye — October 29, 2011 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey hawk. Had some great family time myself today. I'm trying to enjoy this weather while we still have it!

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 29, 2011 at 5:47 p.m.

Sorry to disappoint you my fellow Whine Cellar writer. That was no HR pitch. That was strictly my work although I'd be more than happy to share any information on credible sources regarding Dementia. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that you would choose Wikipedia as a resource when it comes to citing a source of information when it comes to the medical field, given that in past comments, you attempted psyche testing on fellow writers...portraying yourself as a medical professional. As I am sure you are quite aware, I have medical training in my history as well as have experienced the Hell of dealing with a loved one who suffered from a massive brain injury to more than one segment of her brain from the car accident we experienced and that full blown dementia which led to her untimely death. *BeLIEVE* me, I had taken several painful hours...days in fact...researching everything there is to do with dementia and know more about it than the average Joe. So nailingit, when someone abuses the word dementia or "demented" or any other word structure depicting the same condition, I will definitely make my stance regarding the subject.

Please do not take this as a personal hit to you. Your silence regarding the subject was overwhelmingly suggestive if you know what I mean. My comment regarding you "unsupported comment," I admit was my effort to cajole you out of the No, No and No type answers you were providing as a comment like mine seems to be the quid pro quo around the Cellar which generates heated discussion, hence my comments to Roger and Manthou as to why we would NEED to cite references in the first place.

Nailingit, several times a week, discussions metastasize into rhetoric (that sometimes becomes quite nasty) which obviously diminishes the argument either side is trying to make. This is exactly what causes the headaches for those who monitor our discussions and discourages others from joining in on the Cellar. Was it truly my intention to "Expect" you to cite your sources or for me to city Basil's sources on a general request of information by him? Of course not. I was merely showing everyone just how easily it can spark into controversy just by simply utilizing a phrase or two which will definitely spark the dander of anybody willing to argue. As Manthou asked and I agreed...Are we becoming a society addicted to conflict??? I believe so.

I hope I got my point across to the fellow dwellers.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

oops...that's 'My comment regarding *your* "unsupported comment,..." '


"...or for me to *cite* Basil's sources..."

Sorry about the typos!

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm having some conflicting thoughts over the recent incident of the male substitute teacher who wore female capris pants to work at Wy'East Middle School. And I'm not sure that kicking the kids who kept "snickering" out of class was the best move.

The school's response seems to be that as long as he's a good teacher, his dress shouldn't matter. I don't entirely agree. What if he chooses to wear a skirt next time? I'm OK with a kilt or lava-lava, because they're male dress in the cultures that wear them. But I'm not as comfortable with the idea that a teacher should wear something obviously intended only for the opposite gender.

The articles were unclear over whether intermediate steps were taken before throwing the "snickerers" out. The way written, it sounds as though some couldn't stop laughing, which disrupted the class - this got them booted. Kids are cruel (for lack of a better term) - they'll laugh at and harass anyone who is different. It's up to the adults to explain why they're wrong and then set limits. Saying "you're bad and have to go" can only increase whatever animosity these kids hold (often without knowing why).

roger — October 30, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 30, 2011 at 7:51 a.m.

Having the ""snikerers" taken out and talked with was the correct action. As you point out MS is a time rife with bullying and cruelty, and this was a great opportunity to show how 'being different' isn't an acceptable reason for that sort of behavior from an unenlightened segment of society. And it would be far better for the kids to learn that at school than not get that lesson til in the work force.

As normal, the article doesn't cover all the details. My bet is the 'kicking out' was followed up with discussions with counselors and probably parents. Not just sitting in the hall.

And, oddly enough, there is a style of urban bike pant that looks somewhat similar.... unisex, btw.......

Now, I imagine BobL will be all over this as 'proof' of whatever it is he is constantly trying to claim....

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry basil, I can't go along with you on this one. The teacher should have been made to wear appropriate clothing for his job. If "he" wants to wear inappropriate clothing after work, no problem and as for the statement that "he's a good teacher", does that mean if he wasn't a good teacher, they would have told him to change?

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Sorry to disappoint you my fellow Whine Cellar writer. That was no HR pitch. That was strictly my work..." Then explain please "...and the implications of such derogatory statements without facts to support is misleading and can be considered as grounds for disciplinary action."

Was it intended for the paper in your ongoing attempts to censor? Doesn't matter..move on please.

" ...given that in past comments, you attempted psyche testing on fellow writers...portraying yourself as a medical professional."

That is a lie. I showed you ink blot patterns in Are you okay? Doesn't matter..move on please.

"So nailingit, when someone abuses the word dementia or "demented" or any other word structure depicting the same condition, I will definitely make my stance regarding the subject."

My God this is just getting weird! I'm glad I didn't write the definition of paranoia!

"Your silence regarding the subject was overwhelmingly suggestive if you know what I mean."

I had hoped my silence would cause you to move on. Most of the time I don't care to engage you. You are much to abrasive for my tastes. You tend to bring conversations to focus on you rather than the issues. i.e. You use the words I, I'm, my, mine, etc. constantly instead of focusing on the issues of the day. That's okay! It's your style and the way you choose to communicate. I just don't care for it. Please, please approach someone else for conversation if my responses upset you so much.

"As Manthou asked and I agreed...Are we becoming a society addicted to conflict??? I believe so."

Don't you realize your badgering precipitated manthou's comment?

"I hope I got my point across to the fellow dwellers."

I believe you have goldenoldie, I believe you have.

Instead of creating personal drama to expound on, why don't we speak to the issues of the day?

"This is exactly what causes the headaches for those who monitor our discussions and discourages others from joining in on the Cellar."

I believe Matt usually reminds us that we have an ignore button. Please feel free.

Are we done now goldenoldie? Let's move on. You are becoming rather obsessive about this.

I have an opening at 1600 if you are interested. :))...lighten up!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"There is no reason now to be a skeptic about steadily increasing temperatures, Muller wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal's editorial pages, a place friendly to skeptics."

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is getting old - are we playing at who gets the last word?

Lew Waters would be proud. If he wasn't getting so much free publicity on the facebook side, he'd probably say he approves.

And I'm just complaining - not trying to censor anyone!!!

roger — October 30, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

basil, roger, hawk. I have to go with mr_basil_seal's opinion. Things are changing pretty quick in this area, and for some it's hard to accept, but accept we must. I'm sure in the future, sexual identity, cross dressing, transgender etc issues, as they involve the workplace will not be a point of contention, nor should they be. The more exposure our kids have to personal freedom the better. imho. My kid has a teacher who is openly gay and promotes a gay lifestyle. Sometimes he wears attire that is totally equated with a female. The kids don't think much of it, most likely because they see it everyday. Exposure. To each their own. As previously stated, I prefer melons to pickles, but endorse anyone's right to pursue their own sense of freedom.

The only difference between a skirt and a kilt is heritage.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

no roger..not playing last word..but hopefully have laid it to rest.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 8:45 a.m."

School district says the clothing is acceptable.....

Legal rulings say the same thing...

And in the '70's there was the same hubbub about women wearing pants to work......

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The conversation became rather...demented! :))

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 8:54 a.m.

The deniers are having a great deal of cognitive dissonance.....

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes. Quite the conflict! I suppose Mitt will create a new center to move to in the political realm.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, I see you're a bit touchy from what I have discussed. There was no offense intended on my part to you.

No my fellow Whine Cellar Writer, I am not getting the last word. I know you'll see to that. I just wanted to fully explain my intentions. In past comments, you made people think you were one of experience with psyche testing. Did I take you seriously??? Of course not. Am I trying work to have you censored? Absolutely not. I don't know where you'd get that idea. In fact, I enjoy reading your comments. Why would I want to eliminate something from the C which I find as entertaining? Personal drama? Naw...just reminding you and everyone else that certain words you speak (as well as I have spoken in the past) can touch emotions and spark a heated discussion.

Maybe you should have discussed paranoia. You never know what that one would have brought on in the Whine Cellar. (s)

Now your sarcasm in your writes concerning ink blot know at the time it was quite uncalled for, Nailingit...but we moved on...well, at least I did. Obviously, you have not but that's okay. Maybe you could learn something from doing comparisons of what you saw in the inkblot tests as opposed to others. That I'd be interested in seeing the results.

Seriously, Nailingit...I have no intentions of suggesting your removal or ignoring of your comments. If you find it necessary to do so, that's your prerogative. It is obvious I got my point across since it put you up into such a lather...*possibly* because you realized that something I said was on the mark but you didn't want to admit it...but that's my opinion.

I'd be more than happy to move on but I had to get my final word in just as you did, so shall we begin now??? Here's one!!! How about Pat Timm's column this morning??? Sounds like December through January might be an interesting holiday season to plan, huh!!! Here's another...Occupy Vancouver managed to collect some food for the needy yesterday while Occupy Portland protestors were yet again arrested for staying the night as well as a few members arrested in Portland for narcotics/alcohol violations and outstanding warrants. In recent days, the Occupy Portland movement has "misplaced" over $20,000.00.

Is the more passive approach by Occupy Vancouver more beneficial than the more aggressive tendencies of the Portland Occupy Movement?

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

btw, the money lost was donations collected in support of helping others. It appears someone helped themselves to it.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry. I omitted @ 9:26 was in response to mr_basil_seal @ 9:20.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m

Sorry, I think there is a difference between gay and cross dressing. I mean really, do you just like to wear women's clothes or are you confused about your sexuality? If you just like women's clothes, wear jeans. Everybody does. Capris just make you look silly. If you have to wear female clothing, wear a dress and go all the way. To me, it's just ridiculous. Maybe if he just wore women's undies under his pants, he would be happy. Are we going to have to bow to and accept EVERY difference? Where is it going to stop?

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

. *In recent days, the Occupy Portland movement has "misplaced" over $20,000.00.*

Might want to check up on that.

It's that 'reliable sources thing,

Otherwise, it looks rather like ELISI's October 26, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. attempt to mislead.

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I have a colleague who suffered a traumatic brain injury in an auto accident a few years back, which affected her emotions, impulse control, and ability to write coherently. She receives support for these new deficits at work through ADA laws. I help her edit her reports for clarity. She angers easily, cries often, and misinterprets intent. Since this is a neurological misfiring caused by brain damage, she does not have much control over it. On the surface, she presents as healed, but her brain never fully recovered from the injuries sustained from that accident.

I say this as a reminder that we never know what trauma, illness or dysfunction, if any, is at the other end of the words we read from anonymous posters online.

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 7:51 am: I am so glad you brought up the local story of the cross-dressing substitute teacher.

This is really not new for larger public schools, where a diverse and numbered student and teacher population reveals an increase in transgender and cross-dressing individuals on both sides of the desk.

Washington law is pretty clear on these protections. Until it is successfully challenged, it is what drives schools' official position on the controversial issue.

I have had parents pull their children out of school because they did not want them exposed to such lifestyle choices. I always think they will run into that eventually, and learning to tolerate differences and diversity is a good lesson learned young. However, I am wise enough to know that not everyone agrees with me. :)

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Teacher wears capri pants..

Hmm..That IMO is a catch 22.
If those student were removed from class for *snickering* that can/could be seen as a disruption of flow of the educational process.
But,..the teacher by wearing the capri pants, even tho they are appropriate cover, can also be seen as a cause of the disruption to the process.

So neither party is right, neither is wrong.

ELISI — October 30, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey problem. I'm more than happy to oblige! I did just what you recommended. Here's an article for you to decide for yourself regarding the matter of the $20,000.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 10:18 a.m.

The subject isn't possibly being egged on by anybody here, is it??? Manthou...we've moved on. Do you care to as well???

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think my main concern with what the teacher is doing is that it sounds as though he's trying to promote a social agenda. Somewhat passively, perhaps, but still doing so. And he's being supported in this by the school administration and the Washington State Legislature.

And so, when Johnny and Susie go home, they say "Guess what I learned today? Mr. X wears women's clothes, and Principal says its OK." Then Mom and Dad say it isn't OK - it violates what they believe, and what they want their children to believe. So now Johnny and Susie have to choose between which authority figure to believe. And respect.

I'd rather our schools get back to teaching core subjects, rather than values. Save the critical thinking for junior or senior level classes, once they've established a solid basis for core subjects and are old enough to understand politics, philosophy, societal issues, etc. Maybe this would help boost our education back to where our graduates compete favorably with the rest of the world, rather than have Stanford students who are very socially conscious but have no idea where Iran is.

roger — October 30, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- I totally get where you are coming from. I'm a bit traditional myself, and at times I put my eye brow raising with perspective to my generation. At risk of giving personal info, I wore my hair quite long back in the day, and certain employers and "established" folks frowned on it. I took it in stride as understanding that they hadn't attended Jimi's electric church of circular reasoning! That, and a fair % of percentage of fellow youth also let their "freak flag fly".

I try to keep an open mind when it comes to societal evolution. But I understand where you are coming from and respect it. Maybe I reason too much as years go by.

There's that damn Tao philosophy again! I'm shackled!!!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 10:27 a.m

ELISI — October 30, 2011 at 10:29 a.m.

If a teacher is going to wear something that would "normally" be out of place, then he/she should have to stand there and explain why. They are the "teacher", are they not? If the state accepts this as normal, then the teacher has a responsibility to explain themselves.

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 10:18...thanks for the insight and point well taken.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the earlier advice on picking tomatoes for a short growing season. My farmer skills are limited - I suspect because one of my punishments as a kid was to go weed gardens. (Sheer torture for a preteen who is missing out on important stuff like playing baseball!! Just get it over with and spank me, and I'll promise to never do whatever again. Until the next time, anyhow.)

Anyhow, some friends gave me some sort of yellow tomato they grew - I think they called it a plum tomato - that I thought was great. I'm thinking I'll try these next year. Any advice?

roger — October 30, 2011 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 10:38 a.m

I too wore my hair longish for a time. It was actually half way down my back until I had to work under a truck on a creeper and pulled it half off. Very painful.

Anyway, I think Roger may have it correct, lets get back to teaching academics and not lifestyles. They get enough of that from the TV and movies.

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is obvious that some who post on the forum are also vindictive little b's whose only efforts are to brown nose and gain pleasure in adding fuel to the fire.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jimi's electric church of circular reasoning? And I suppose a little Lizard King thrown in for flavor?

Life was so much easier for us back East and down South. Sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll. Save the gestalt for school, when trying to impress the prof and get him to overlook my skipping all his classes.

roger — October 30, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, there's some regular slicing yellow tomatoes as well as pear tomatoes. You will find them to be less acidic as are the orange tomatoes as well. You know, there's even purple and black tomatoes as well as tomatoes that remain green and are ripe and ready to eat???

And Roger...glad to help!

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 10:52...Ouch!!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 10:55......ahhhh...those were the days :))

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, here's a helpful link for selecting your tomatoes for next year:

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Columbian staff and "suits:" I want to congratulate you on two great stories in the print version today:

1. Paris Aichen's "Second Parentood a Grand Challenge"

2. Gordon Oliver's "Cutting the Cable on Comcast"

Timely, informative, and helpful.

As always, "Politics is Local" blog entertains and gives the inside information behind all those strong handshakes and Pepsodent smiles. :)

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 10:30 a.m.

Interesting that you saw the old article and not the newer one.....

**Occupy Portland says issues about donations, website, incorporation resolved
Published: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 2:35 PM** Updated: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 5:39 PM
By Anne Saker, The Oregonian

Occupy Portland has resolved problems over its website and over thousands of dollars in donations, a representative of the group's media committee said Thursday, and the group's decision-making body has reformulated its finance committee to make its activities more transparent.

"The people on the finance committee, in my view, were well-intentioned and misguided. They were not acting maliciously," said Reid Parham, an Occupy Portland volunteer. "It was a culture clash. People have learned a lot. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of interpersonal conflict as a result."

Wednesday, Occupy Portland organizers said they were concerned that donations to a PayPal account had disappeared when one member of the finance committee took down the website, which pinched off email traffic among volunteers.

Jordan LeDoux, also a media-committee volunteer, said the website and web mail traffic were restored by late Wednesday.

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I'd rather our schools get back to teaching core subjects, rather than values.*

You do realize that schools used to use bible stories as moral instruction as well as for reading practice, right?

And the 'values' you are complaining about are basically the law of the land....

mr_basil_seal — October 30, 2011 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Bankxodus": new term coined to connote the moving of personal money from big banks like B of A to "good guy" banks, like local credit unions.

Wonder if this will get any traction?

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 11:35 a.m

Hard to believe I was ahead of the curve on this one. I got into my credit union when Washington Mutual crashed. I wanted nothing to do with Chase and as it turns out, I think I made the right move. Also, they held my car loan and this just made it easier.

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bonkxodus continued:

Portland (where else?) is the first US City to launch this move-your-money movement:

It is so interesting to me to see some of the FB commenters like Lew Waters (who lost his job through layoffs) defend big banks and Wall Street.

This will be interesting to watch.

Any of you moving your money? My guess is we all had it in local credit unions for quite some time. :)

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye: We have been local credit union customers since we moved here in the late 70's. This group is coming up with a list of "good guy" banks across the US. I have not seen the local list, but I will bet Columbia Credit Union, IQ Credit Union, and OnPoint Credit Union might be among them?

I do know that other big banks reconsidered their debit card fees after the B of A backlash.

I do love to see citizens in action like this. Maybe it will take off?

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Too little, way too little, way too late I'm afraid.

BofA, among others, now have 2 doors. One for commeercial banking, one for investment banking. Today, they simply don't want or need our money. Look at the rates they're paying. FDIC insurance rates alone eating up profit on holding your cash. At some banks, there's actually a fee on savings accounts below a minimum balance. Sorry-they don't need or care for our cash.

Now, if you have big bucks and use the other door for investors, they're happy to serve you. As our spineless, pandering, bought and paid for leaders are unwilling to change these banks' practices, the show goes on. Cheap government money, institutional investors, and little account owners, who's expendable? Bad PR for BofA? Depends. As many write this off as actions of a misguided and/or unguided Occupy movement, can't say. Like it, however.

mrd — October 30, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr. Basil @ 11:30,

Yes. And I know. Roland Brosious, Evergreen HR Director, cited the law in the news article. And Rep Moeller was nice enough to point out how happy he was to see the Anderson-Murray Civil Rights Act pass through the State government.

Does that make any of it right? Or, does this pass the common sense test? That's what we were discussing.

roger — October 30, 2011 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil, I thank you for providing an update to the article and the incident regarding the $20,000 in question with regards to Occupy Portland. You are correct. I did not see the update. It was not available to me even after googling the information when I originally made my statement which now is in error regarding the "lost" donations.

Again I say...

Thank You.

As far as the other information I provided in my original comment regarding issues the Occupy Portland is plagued with...if any of it is in error and you have information that contradicts my statement, please inform me.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One more thing, Basil. I in no way find the negative issues plaguing Occupy Wall Street Protests (including the costs to repair park lawns and clean up) as something the Press should be focusing upon. I only wish the Press would focus on the reasoning behind the masses of people willing to make a stance to break the division in our nation of US, the 99% versus the elite 1% who appear to have the royal red carpet treatment, even when they screw up in business.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Photo from the Occupy Vancouver food drive article here on The Columbian.

Now, who's the old Vet in the middle? Is he a closet Liberal after all?

roger — October 30, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, it appears it's our very own resident commenter on the C and elsewhere. Nice one, Mr. W...up front and center.

BTW Roger, it is the opportunistic politicians with the D after their names who are trying to take hold of Occupy (insert name here) for political gain when in fact, The Occupy Wall Street/America is not an issue of affiliation of political parties (although it is certain politicians in our history which has allowed the top 1% to get away with murder when it comes to economic gain). Even Mr. W. makes that very statement on his own blog spot which you could find his link on his face page when you click on his photo on the FB comments of the C.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Are You Experienced?

If you can just get your mind together
Then come on across to me
We'll hold hands and then we'll watch the sunrise
From the bottom of the sea

But first, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have

I know, I know you probably scream and cry
That your little world won't let you go
But who in your measly little world
Are you trying to prove that
You're made out of gold and, eh, can't be sold

So, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have

Let me prove you...

Trumpets and violins I can hear in distance
I think they're calling our names
Maybe now you can't hear them, but you will
If you just take hold of my hand

Oh, but are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful...

~Jimi Hendrix~

Just wanted to add some color/beauty to the abasement. Great music/musicians stand the test of time. There wasn't a guitar player that was harder working or more devoted than our beloved Jimi Hendrix. Those that lived with him say he would spend 16-17 hours a day jamming/practicing/writing. His voice is still relevant, his playing unprecedented and unmatched. His voicing/phrasing/ incredible playing can still evoke tears of awe and joy!

I wish everyone goodwill that posts on this forum. I know my opinion isn't the end all, and most likely it's not articulated as well as some. Whatever anyone offers to the abasement, let it be in the spirit of good will and tolerance. Not trying to dictate abasement policy here, and I'm the last one to advocate a P.C. mindset, just making a suggestion that includes first and foremost myself. Peace. Life is too short not to embrace it fully. Sometimes a negative mindset can weaken the grip.

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Good pick up! Lew's been outed! I guess it's never too late to wake up!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: you have an Eagle eye. :)

LW, you think? Or maybe his "evil" twin, Skippy.

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good lord, nailingit: Look at the times on our posts above.


manthou — October 30, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou...and tomorrows Halloween! A convergence of transit thought with an evil holiday on the morrow! AAAHHHH!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal that an olive branch I see extending from your post at 2:32 pm? If so, I will join the wish of good will upon all...even beyond the forum. Life is truly too short to dwell in the mires of negativity.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Something from CNN Money. I've been hearing about the We Are the 53% (Who Pay Taxes) movement that started earlier this month in opposition to Occupy Wall Street. If you scroll to the bottom, you'll read that the guy in the photo is a Vancouver school teacher.;=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec3_lnk3|108632

Wonder if Lou is going to send someone out to interview him?

roger — October 30, 2011 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit and goldie: Group hug, all. :)

Life is good.

roger: I think many of the Occupy You-Name-It-Folks pay taxes, too. I think Lou B had a pretty good idea last week about squeezing the people in power (banks, politicians) from all sides.

We might has well join forces and find common ground.

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually guys, Lew has stated somewhere on the other side he is going to Occupy Vancouver to film it so he can prove the shenanigans and also the low number of attendees -as he always says the C does not give equal coverage to tea party gatherings. I am afraid he has not gone over to the good side.

luvithere — October 30, 2011 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Group hug, all??? That's quite a crowd.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Group hug, all??

OK but watch out for nailingit, last time he got a little handsy. I think he misunderstood,

It's Group, not Grope !!!

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 3:04 PM: Well, Lew better go over to another city to get his salacious film. I don't think filling boxes for the food bank, picking up trash and strolling past B of A is going to get him a spot in the Tribeca Film Festival.

So funny.

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou-he has a point to prove. keep saying the C ignores him, no matter how often Lou points out how many stories they had. So now he goes to document.
Maybe he could learn something?

luvithere — October 30, 2011 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just had to "run" to Portland. Terrible traffic to include a bridge raising and a stalled truck blocking a lane on the way back. My journey took me past Occupy, and the Halloween costumes/rain evoked an eerie feel. Bless those that are well intended tonite, it's gettin' chilly.

goldenoldie @ 2:47..." that an olive branch I see extending from your post at 2:32 pm?" It's a branch of budding olives goldenoldie. If olives bud. If they don't they should! I do wish the best for you and other commenters here. We have differing opinions on many issues as we should. The one commonality we all could share is civility. A pipe dream maybe. But any pipe dream I've had have been good!

hawkeye @ 3:29. Man, where's the fun in that?!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 4:30 PM: You just might be onto something here. Hope springs eternal. Maybe Lew Waters will see the light of common purpose. He goes "undercover" to fish out the dirt among Occupy Wall Streeters and emerges with new friends, an open mind and insights.

That is a movie worth watching. :)

manthou — October 30, 2011 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 3:01,

Yep - everyone around here who pays for anything except food is paying sales tax. (Except those who cross the river to shop, that is.) Income tax is another story. There's where the so-called 53%ers may have a valid point. I can buy that some people earn little enough that they should pay nothing. And I can also accept a social responsibility toward people like single mothers who receive government subsidies - if these allow them to work and provide a positive role model for their children. But I'm not good with a system that allows 47% (if the figure is accurate) of the people to pay no income tax. I have to pay, and I expect a little more company to share this pain with!!

roger — October 30, 2011 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

'On The Waters front' 'WatersWorld' 'Waters for chocolate' :))

Lew go's in like a Lion and comes out a lamb! Like 'March' weather.

Falls in love with a 23 year old free spirited Occupyer and changes his party affiliation to Democrat. Opens up a 'green' Chevy Volt dealership, and votes yes on future tax increases to help our community!

The end...of the beginning...!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou and luvithere,

Nope - Lew didn't learn anything you'd consider positive. He was just gathering info so he and Bob Koski could ridicule the Occupiers on Lew's website.

Now, this may be a little snarky and uncalled for, but Lew is declaring himself a 53%er. Yet in other comments he says he's living on a limited retirement income, owns a home, makes charitable donations, etc. Sounds to me like maybe he needs someone to help with his taxes?

roger — October 30, 2011 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Red House. The long bluesy version - Hendrix In the West, maybe? I forget.

roger — October 30, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And he does Dylan better than anyone else. Like A Rolling Stone would is a classic; I just wish there could've been a cleaned up studio version.

roger — October 30, 2011 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 30, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.

I feel your pain, Roger. And I feel mine as well. I got my car in Oregon but still had to pay tax here (of course I knew I would and I don't complain about it because it's OK) but did you know that if you take the plates off your old car and want to put them on your new car, they won't prorate the fees? You have to start all over and don't get a refund on what is left over from the old car. Not fair!

On the other hand, it would be nice if some other people would actually pay what they owe. Especially those people on TV that go to those tax guys that get them out of paying $100,000 in taxes and get it reduced to $10,000. I hate those guys. Oh, and the guy I used to work with that bragged every year that he gets all his tax money back because he gets to claim all his kids and about a dozen other write offs. That sucks too.

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- I've never heard a version I didn't like! On Jimi Hendrix "Blues", one of the early MCA releases that provided great clarity for digital transfer, has "Electric Church Red House" version. Not as long as some of the extended beautiful jams he does with this song, it's about 6 minutes long, and one of the most driving, energy driven tunes on the planet. The background was being pissed off at his own playing for not attacking enough, stopping, and proceeds to "electrify"! On the "Blues" album/cd also has "Hear my Train a comin" from "Rainbow Bridge". A recording from a 1970 Berkley concert a few months before his passing. If you haven't checked it out I encourage you. If I was allowed only one tune for the rest of my life this would be it!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the offer sportyjames. I looked at a few pages and wow! Quite extensive!

nailingit — October 30, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 30, 2011 at 6:29 p.m.

Hawkeye, those ads are completely misleading (lying). They are just scamming people that are already in a deep hole. IRS doesn't post it in their literature but they will never take less than 12 1/2% in an offer and compromise.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 30, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum Login