Open Forum, Oct. 31- Nov. 6

Published:

 

Columbian photo staff document Condit Dam breached

Most read stories on Columbian.com last week:

No. 1) Live Blogging Condit Dam breach

No. 2) Condit Dam to be breached Wednesday

No. 3) Condit Dam reservoir's behavior murky after breach

No. 4) Cross-dressing teacher fills in at Wy'east Middle School

No. 5) Breaching of dam unleashes flood of water, emotions

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423 comments

Comments

Good Morning to all in the fine Whine Cellar!!! Looks like the PNW will be getting a taste of winter weather in higher elevations!! Time for some hot spiced cider, you think???

Allen, my first comment goes to you in response to your comment on October 30th at 8:56 pm:

Allen, I'm not sure if you have realized this yet but the people HAVE been asking the Feds for a government bailout and were turned away. It's called refinancing on an underwater mortgage. An underwater mortgage which would never have developed if the housing industry hadn't undergone that pricing bubble fueled by none other than our wonderful assessments fueled by the need for the local officials to gain more tax revenue.

Of course our lovely media basks in the deep mud they love to spill out upon us on the dark side of the Occupy protests. That's what makes their profits soar. Never mind the message the people are stating, the same people who are willing to stand in the cold and wave their signs and chant their chants

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, regarding yesterday's budding olive branch...I accept, my fellow Cellar dweller!

..

Hawkeye, good advice on October 30, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. (last week's forum).

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One more comment to Allen then I'm outta here. (Coworker had special request for two loaves of zucchini bread in exchange for a whole filleted salmon. It's a baking day for sure).

Allen, it is my honest opinion that President Barack Obama would not have opened up refinancing loans through Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae for those who are in good standing with their existing loans but need to reduce their loan payments...if it weren't for the Occupy protests. The timeliness of this may spark skepticism by those who might think this is politically motivated with the presidential primary just around the corner...but in my opinion, I believe 100% that President Obama is just doing his job and IS listening to the people.

He is also intending to help the students with their college loans as well.

I believe the Occupy Protests are working but I also believe some people are carrying it a bit too far.

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 6:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What makes this quote worthwhile is it's author, David Frumm. a **conservative** columnist.

"The tea party stands for a series of propositions that don't meet the reality test: that deficits matter more than jobs, that cutting deficits and tightening credit will accelerate economic growth, that high taxes and over-regulation are the most important reasons that growth has not revived, and that America still offers the world's best opportunity for the poor to rise. Tea party plans call for a radical shift in the burden of taxation from the rich to the poor -- and promise big reductions in government spending without touching any of the benefits of current retirees.

If put into practice, the tea party platform is a formula for political and economic crisis."

Now that the baggers appear to have moved over to Cain, it would seem they support his 9/9/9 tax plan disaster. I guess they feel the 84% of lower income brackets need to take all the tax load off the wealthy. I hope its not because the plan is purportedly so simple it's the only thing they can understand.

mrd — October 31, 2011 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


dang...I had to peek!

MRD, question for you. I'm not totally versed in what Cain has to say about 9/9/9...but maybe you could answer me this. Does that 9/9/9 tax plan include eliminating all deductions? If so, then maybe the wealthy will be paying their share as we would? If not...it's the same old, same old with a different spin in my opinion.

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Halloween is here!!! Please look out for the little tykes out there this evening while out and about driving. Be safe. Thank you.

JohnCasey — October 31, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


all personal deductions are eliminated. add up what you made, send 9% to the IRS.

add 9% for federal sales tax on everything you buy. Food and prescriptions may or may not be exempt, but I've seen nothing to indicate they are exempt.

Capital gains, interest and dividend income, will not be taxed. The dreaded (by R's) estate tax is toast, also. In short, poorer folks that already pay a much higher % of their income in TOTAL taxes than their rich friends, are really getting hit now, but hey, they're off the hook for capital gains. No more pesky taxes on those big dividend checks, either.

corporations will now pay 9% on whatever they can't get off the bottom line-they still can deduct expenses, captial investments, etc. Their effective rate is reduced from about 20% to 9%.

Warren Buffet pays himself a salary of $100k, I believe I read some where. He makes millions off his investments. I also believe he said he paid $6M in income taxes last year so he must make a bundle from investments. His personal tax bill will drop from $6M to $9K. Pretty sweet, huh?

mrd — October 31, 2011 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woke this morning with this song in my head..with all that is going on in our world, today I am going to be happy just to be me, alive and have my health. I will be singing this song all day..
Have a great day everyone!

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

I need to laugh and when the sun is out
I've got something I can laugh about
I feel good in a special way
I'm in love and it's a sunny day

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

ELISI — October 31, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Be careful with downloading from sites like pirate bay. This particular site was shut down in 2009, somehow resurrected, and now are getting ready to sell to some undisclosed third party. People who link their libraries to the site are starting to shut down, as they believe it is no longer safe.

Bottom line is that these sites are illegal. If you're just looking for specific albums (OK, CDs) why not use something legal like Amazon Music. You can buy from someone, or download for a small cost (usually .99 per song). If you collect bootlegs (which I've done), there are plenty of websites where you can buy the CD (also probably illegal, but how honest can we be?). (Unfortunately, about 90% of the time the recordings stink - but I have found some good ones - Stones Europe tour 1973, Pink Floyd Vesuvius concert, Tull's Jeffrey Goes to Leicester Square, etc.)

If you insist on using pirate sites, research the use of proxy servers. The general idea is to go through several different servers, making it more difficult to be tracked. And avoid downloading large quantities - some of our internet providers are more than happy to sell out. Interestingly, the latest to jump on this bandwagon is the porn movie industry. I read an article the other day how somewhere back East (I believe Maryland) they've been able to go through the service providers to sue illegal downloaders. (And the idea of stealing from this industry is an entirely different topic.)

roger — October 31, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cain's 9-9-9 has been "evolving" over the past couple of weeks in reaction to the many analyses of the impact on different income levels that have been put out.

Either way, 9-9-9 is just intended to be a temporary "phase 2" step in his transition to what he calls a "fair tax" - this is apparently a VAT. What stays and what goes from phase 2 when the phase 3 "fair tax" is implemented hasn't been said. But you can bet the VAT will be passed to the consumer.

Run the other way - as fast as possible.

He's possibly toast anyhow - sexual harassment charges that were bought off are starting to surface.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oopps sorry, I guess I should "cite my source" huh?

Song: Good Day Sunshine
By: The Beattles
Written mainly by McCartney, but credited to Lennon/McCartney
Found on the album Revolver 1966

Easy lyrics, upbeat music...a feel good song.

ELISI — October 31, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The state has/will cut about 2/3 of it's funding to UW & WSU. Tuitions have risen sharply.

And now Ron Paul on federal student loan guarantees:

“Why should people who are laborers who never get to go to college, why should they be taxed to send some of us through college?” Paul said Sunday on CNN. “So it’s not even a fair system when it works. But obviously it doesn’t work and that’s why it’s coming to an end.”

Paul has long advocated for cuts in spending and the national debt while calling for numerous government agencies to shut their doors and a renewed emphasis on individual responsibility. His responsibility platform also extends to education, he said.

“The responsibility is on the individual and the family to take care of their needs, not the federal bureaucracy. It just doesn’t work,” Paul said.

When asked if he would agree that some people in the United States “need federal help,” Paul told CNN Chief Political Correspondent Candy Crowley that there are “always some needs, the market isn’t perfect.”

“It will not be perfect, but what we have now is this catastrophic mistake where people have a pseudo education and no jobs,” Paul said. “We’ve indentured them.”

Maybe he should extend his logic to public schools. No jobs-close the schools. I haven't had children in schools for 15 years. Why am I paying taxes to support schools? I don't use public transportation, whay are my taxes subsidizing mass transit? I could go on, but it's obvious, there's too many things this guy just doesn't get.

As this country's educational systems fall against international comparisons and the world's economies are becoming more competitive and much more technical, why waste money on education? Jeez, it'd be funny except this guy is serious.

mrd — October 31, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — October 31, 2011 at 9:50 a.m

And how much money has Paul taken in donations to his campaign? If you go by his words, shouldn't he be paying for is campaign on his own?

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


the latest thing I saw was $12M.

He's doing better than the rest, IMO. All small donations. He hasn't resorted to super-PAC or "bundler" money like Perry and Obama, not yet, anyway.

I saw were Cain has gone from "never accused" to "falsely accused" of sexual harrassment. Might get interesting.

mrd — October 31, 2011 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.

No. There is no contradiction. There is a difference between MANDATORY and VOLUNTARY.

As I have long said...the Left makes no distinction between public and private.

kn_dalai — October 31, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have no problem with the government giving students money for school as long as they pay it back.

And I'm pretty sure everybody knows the difference between public and private.

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


.the Left makes no distinction between public and private.

kn_dalai — October 31, 2011 at 12:03 p.m

Life Among the 1%

By Michael Moore

*"How can you claim to be for the poor when you are the opposite of poor?!"* It's like asking: *"You've never had sex with another man -- how can you be for gay marriage?!"* I guess the same way that an all-male Congress voted to give women the vote, or scores of white people marched with Martin Luther Ling, Jr. (I can hear these righties yelling back through history: "Hey! You're not black! You're not being lynched! Why are you with the blacks?!"). It is precisely this disconnect that prevents Republicans from understanding why anyone would give of their time or money to help out those less fortunate. It is simply something their brain cannot process. "Kanye West makes millions! What's he doing at Occupy Wall Street?!" Exactly -- he's down there demanding that his taxes be raised. That, to a right-winger, is the definition of insanity. To everyone else, we are grateful that people like him stand up, even if and especially because it is against his own personal financial interest. It is specifically what that Bible those conservatives wave around demands of those who are well off.

http://michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/life-among-1

mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal



mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 1:39 p.m.

So what's your point. Perhaps you would care to next quote Rob Reiner and Sean Penn.

kn_dalai — October 31, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 1:39 p.m.

Oh SNAP!

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well everybody, thanks to ELISI...we have a wonderful song running through the brains of some of us on the Columbian. So whatever you do...DON'T click on the link below! It is SURE to get your minds stuck on one of the most nauseating songs of the century:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH...

Don't say I didn't warn you!!!

(trick or treat) - 8P

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 6:11 All is well!!! I hope this feel good crap lasts awhile! We could lay odds in the basement on a over/under prop.! :)) Seriously, I wish you well!

roger @ 8:20- Thanks for the advice. I just took a look and thanked sporty for the offer. I have this personal ethics thing about piracy and I'm always extremely careful as to what to download. Isn't it incredible the amount of music that's out today? In my opinion there was some kind of..ripple in time..vortex..hell I don't know. But music produced from the mid sixties to the mid seventies period is just insane. In volume, content, variety, style, originality, quality and relevancy, (I'm sure I left a few categories out). Then a merge into disco-glam-grundge-I don't know what-and back to full circle. Truly a special decade or so in time!

nailingit — October 31, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Let's not forget to scare the hell out of somebody! A happy Halloween to all. And look out for the...CandyMan...!?!

nailingit — October 31, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — October 31, 2011 at 8:46 a.m

Good Day Sunshine just makes one want to smile all day doesn't it Allen?

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 2:31 p.m

Icky icky song...I dislike it as much as the ones hubby is always singing to get to me..I shot the sheriff..or She's got the jack.

To those who celebrate All Hallows Eve...stay safe!
To those who celebrate Harvest..have fun!

ELISI — October 31, 2011 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 2:31...I might sound sick..but I dig it! The improv @ about a buck ten is insane! A bit redundant but easy to jam to! Thanks! Talk about tunes one can't get out of their head...here's some timeless lyrics that stick like electrodes! Never look into the mirror and say CandyMan 5 times, and never, ever read these lyrics...

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew
Cover it with choc'late and a miracle or two
The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good

Who can take a rainbow, wrap it in a sigh
Soak it in the sun and make a groovy lemon pie
The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good

The Candy Man makes everything he bakes satisfying and delicious
Now you talk about your childhood wishes, you can even eat the dishes

Oh, who can take tomorrow, dip it in a dream
Separate the sorrow and collect up all the cream
The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good

The Candy Man makes everything he bakes satisfying and delicious
Talk about your childhood wishes, you can even eat the dishes

Yeah, yeah, yeah
Who can take tomorrow, dip it in a dream
Separate the sorrow and collect up all the cream
The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
Yes, the Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man
Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man
Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/s/sammydavisjrlyrics/thecandymanlyrics.html

nailingit — October 31, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 1:39 p.m.

I find it amusing that Michael Moore isn't bright enough to figure that it was the Republicans marching for civil rights. The opposition to civil rights came from such people as JFK, LBJ and Al Gore Sr., but I suppose, rewriting history is what Hollywood does.

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


crazytrain — October 31, 2011 at 4:07 p.m

Guess you didn't really read basil's post now did you?

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Trying to identify these 1% is iffy at best. Most stats I've seen don't take into account one item that skews the numbers as it relates to taxes-the major reason for searching out these folks. As capital gains and most investment incomes (a majority of these mystery 1%ers' income) are taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income, generally it's concluded their overall tax burden is disproportionately low-I did. The fact that the money placed into these investments has already been taxed at least once is seldom, if ever accounted for. Hate to plug the rich folks, but it is what it is.

Dunno, but from where I sit, we need an infusion of make-believe federal money as Obama is trying to get thru Congress to help fire up/shore up the economy-just in time for Christmas, no less. I don't think tax cuts are worth a pitcher of warm spit. I've seen 'em when I was employed-$8.00 per week ain't gonna move nuthin'. Budget reductions on a GROWING economy is vital. And, while it's political suicide to do so, taxes, on all of us, will need to be raised. When the economy was on fire a few years back, a small tax raise would have been like a small tax break, virtually unnoticed.

mrd — October 31, 2011 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


crazytrain — October 31, 2011 at 2:25 p.m.

Actually, the 'hates capitalism' trope is a right wing bit of misinformation. What #occupy is protesting is the EXCESSES due, in large part, to a government overly influenced by money and lobbyists rather than actually addressing the needs of the people.

Show us where #occupy advocates the end of capitalism.

mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — October 31, 2011 at 2:18 p.m.

Seems hawkeye got it......

Sorry it was 'too subtle' for you to.

mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — October 31, 2011 at 4:13 p.m.

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — October 31, 2011 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Candyman???? Iilgh...another song stuck in my head tonight. Well, I guess it could be B-B-B-Benny and the Jets....

Okay...wait a second...here's an even better song -

We Will Rock You!!!

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 5:36 p.m.

I we are going with Queen, it has to be fat bottomed girls.

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was just a skinny lad
Never knew no good from bad,
But I knew life before I left my nursery,
Left alone with big fat Fanny,
She was such a naughty nanny!
Hey big woman you made a bad boy out of me!

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Nailingit, I truly appreciate your nice thoughts at 2:54 pm and I wish you well as well (redundant comment???). Regarding the prop...are you referring to Proposition 1??? Remember...we need to discuss THAT one in the C-Tran forum (yes I'm teasing).

To all the trick or treaters and party revelers for tonight!!! I've already seen one youngster on a scooter sporting a fantastic troll mask...equipped with the troll cap. Not sure if it was a good idea riding down the middle of a side street with the mask on...but I still liked the get up. Just a day in the grocery store or at the mall was an experience. Some of the get ups were quite creepy.

Anyhow, have a safe evening, everyone!!!

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The opposition to civil rights came from such people as JFK, LBJ and Al Gore Sr., but I suppose, rewriting history is what Hollywood does." frobert — October 31, 2011 at 4:13 p.m

Fro, you can badmouth JFK and Gore all day, and I'll probably agree much of the time. But LBJ? Opposition to civil rights? OK, he diluted Eisenhower's bill in '57 due to his concern over what would happen to the Dem party if he supported it. But once Pres, he did a total 180 with the Civil Rights Act of '64, Voting Rights of '65, Immigration Act of '65, and numerous other education and social welfare programs as part of his Great Society. He botched Vietnam, and wasn't known for honesty, but my belief is that he still ranks as our last GREAT President. (Bedtime for Bonzo was a fraud!!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B...

roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MRD, I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your responses today. I have actually read them and appreciate the information you provided me regarding Cain. It doesn't sound like a very promising proposal with the 9/9/9 plan he has. I'm not sure if I'd trust the guy, given what I've heard about his past and I still haven't heard anybody on the "R" side which I would even take the time to consider. Maybe a few R's can tell everyone why they'd vote for their choice. Before we know it...our Washington State Caucuses will be deciding who...ahem...WE support. Nothing's wrong with a write in next November, huh!!!

I'm wondering...

Has there ever ben any president who was elected through write ins???

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

Please explain it to me.

kn_dalai — October 31, 2011 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, this doesn't strike me as a metal crowd, but here's a few words from Lemmy ---

Let the voice of reason chime, Let the friars vanish for all time, God's face is hidden, all unseen, You can't ask him, What it all means, He was never on your side, God was never on your side, Let right or wrong alone decide, God was never on your side.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:42 p.m.

He did do a 180 and strongly encouraged democrats to join with the republicans in passing the 64 act, and I applaud him for it. That, however does not make up for his earlier actions.

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fro...

Anything Queen!!!!

goldenoldie — October 31, 2011 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

Which is why I included several of his accomplishments, which should more than make up for his earlier opposition. I think your reasoning can apply to Reagan -- didn't he start as a Democrat? The neoCons have more than forgiven him for that.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A link to The Columbian's article on the lawsuit over the moratorium the city has imposed on biomass plant.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/oc...

The city council says this plant could increase pollution and detract from the overall livability of downtown. OK, then why are they supporting light rail and the 3 big parking garages that will cause more vehicular traffic than ever there?

roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:57 p.m.

He failed in all matters of foreign policy. sent thousands of kids to their deaths in Vietnam. His great society has brought this country to the verge of bankruptcy, is that what you call an accomplishments?

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 5:42 p.m.

Too bad he had to have Kennedy killed.

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: I guess I am living in a news vacuum. You mentioned something early this morning to Allen about President Obama working with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans to help keep folks in their homes. You thought it might have something to do with the Occupy Wall Street protests.

That was good news to hear. When did this happen?

I think the Occupy Wall Street folks, for the most part, are doing a good job getting attention. Finding better ways to keep people in homes is important, since they were placed there through predatory means.

Please help direct me to where you read that......

manthou — October 31, 2011 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - LBJ had JFK killed? I thought that one got shelved early on, in favor of the Mob. Why? So he could whisper in Jackie's ear?

frobert - Bush 2's tax cuts, deregulation and allowing corporations to set up shops overseas are what's brought this country to the verge of bankruptcy.

frobert - Let's see - the only Pres I can see a Libertarian liking was Andy Jackson. I think his favorite pastimes were drunken orgies and killin' a few of them thar redskins. On the other hand, he took the government from the landed gentry and gave the common man a voice in his destiny. Which do we usually choose to remember?

roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.

The trail of tears lands Jackson squarely within the party that he helped to found.

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

You've got to be financed by Fannie or Freddie and current in your mortgage payments.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141677805/refinancing-a-focus-of-obamas-economic-plan

Detractors say this could lead to taxpayers eating the loss for those who refinance under this plan and then default.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - I surrender. It took a few, but it finally sunk in that there never has been a Pres you liked.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, roger, for the npr link.

manthou — October 31, 2011 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Still later, in an interview with PBS NewsHour, he said he remembered that “once I referenced this lady’s height and I was standing near her” and that the woman “thought that that was too close for comfort.” Cain defended himself. “It was in my office, the door was wide open, and my secretary was sitting right there, and we were standing there and I made the little gesture,” he said.

And just what might "the little gesture" be?

No one seems to be mentioning the source of the allegations. Perry trying to recover, or Romney taking another ranking contender out?

roger — October 31, 2011 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.

Now that I think about it, she did spend A LOT of time with LBJ after he was killed.... Hmmmmm

She WAS there when he was sworn in.

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


SEATTLE (AP) -- The Postal Service is hiring temporary employees for the holidays at mail processing fatalities in Washington. Pay ranges from $11 to $14.60 an hour. There are no benefits. Jobs are available at Kent, Federal Way, Seattle, Everett, Tacoma, Wenatchee, Yakima, Pasco and Spokane.

Wonder why nothing in Clark County?

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd want to work at a mail processing fatality.

And where's the opening for an AP proofreader posted?

roger — October 31, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It doesn't get much better. Chargers/Chiefs match up, Halloween, family and a crap load of goodies, I must be getting old...sigh...

goldenoldie @ 5:41...The prop was short for a propositional bet to coincide with the over/under. For example. I haven't checked the spread for tonight's game, but I would put the over/under...say 38 points. If I bet on the total score to be less than 38..say it winded up 21-10, I would win the under bet. A push if it tied and a loss if it went over. I lived in Vegas way too long, but miss the sports gambling! :)) Bets such as these are referred to as "prop bets".

nailingit — October 31, 2011 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye,

I've got a book about LBJ that details this relationship with Jackie, and her growing discomfort with his attention. But I couldn't find it, so....

Anyhow, while looking I ran across another book that I forgot I have. In my opinion, it's a must read if you want to understand the mentality of a Tea Partyer. Deer Hunting With Jesus: Dispatches From America's Class War, by Joe Bageant. He's writing about West Virginia, but it reminds me of the dying factory town in central PA where I lived from '68 to '76.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I still like Cain, not so much because of his politics, but, because he makes obama very nervous. I don't know why. obama will have the media destroy him, like they are trying to do now. Cain's main problem is he isn't a politician. He doesn't know how to play dirty pool the way they do, so he doesn't have much of a chance of winning. When it comes to dirty politics, obama is a master and getting better every day.

cranky — October 31, 2011 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is wrong with the kids in this town? 15 minutes left, and I've had exactly 3 at my door. Once again, I've got this giant stash of candy to figure out what to do with. Every year my wife says "Why do you buy so much?" and I always respond that I don't want to take the chance of running out and disappointing some little kid. Everywhere else I've lived the streets are crawling with rugrats on Halloween - where are they here? I live in the general Five Corners/Orchards Park area, so it's not like I'm out in the sticks.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


cranky,

Cain makes Mitt Romney nervous - for the moment. The only Repub in the game that makes Obama nervous is Mitt.

roger — October 31, 2011 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 31, 2011 at 7:57 p.m

I've lived here for 7 years and NEVER had a trick or treater come to the door. Of course, I'm a little off the beaten path but one would think I'd get at least ONE! Oh well, more for me!

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


wonder what would happen if some of the occupy signs were religious and had crosses on them.....

DeeLittle — October 31, 2011 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — October 31, 2011 at 9:53 p.m.

Really? Why do you wonder that?

My guess is that Bobbo would show up in the pictures, and maybe Lew. Who cares.

hawkeye — October 31, 2011 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — October 31, 2011 at 10:24 p.m.

As I said before, yes, the protester have the right to protest.

But cities and town DO have the right to stop them IF they DO NOT have a permit or if they turn violent.
There's the problem. The protesters have refused to file for a permit, let alone get one. The heads of each city and town have been lenient allowing them to protest, camp in city parks etc.. asking them to obey the laws. Since some refuse to obey the laws, they then get arrested. When asked to move, disperse, they refuse.
The patience of the mayors and LEO are worn thin. They have stepped aside and allow much from the protesters, but the protesters are pushing past their rights and breaking the law.

ELISI — October 31, 2011 at 11:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In Fairfax County, Va., Kimberly Zakrzewski was found not guilty of violating the county's poop-scooper ordinance, in a citizens' complaint brought by her mortal enemies, the Cornell sisters, who introduced photos of little "Baxter"'s unscooped piles for the jury's edification. The dispositive evidence was testimony by Baxter's owner (Kimberly is just a walker) that the piles looked nothing like anything that had ever come out of Baxter. (Bonus: The owner had brought an actual pile to court that day to intro as evidence, but she decided to leave it in the car.) [ed: OK, OK, literary license on the word "steaming."] Washington Post

I wonder if they all share the same evidence vault.

http://www.newsoftheweird.com/

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 12:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, sorry I didn't get back to you on the refinance of FM/FM underwater mortgages. I was away from the computer for the evening. Had to accommodate the little goblins at the door all evening!!! I see that Roger helped out with a good link. (Thanks Roger). I'm glad I brought it to your attention, though.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I hadn't a clue about the over/under betting on sports games. Maybe that's a good thing for me, lol. Anyhow, thanks for the explanation.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 6:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


david madore,thru his 2 PAC's, has dumped over $150,000 of his own money into the city council races to elect his 2 puppets. that is $75,000 each, unless one is worth more to him. The previous record for spending by a candidate was $13,000.

If anyone can explain to me why these practices, at any level of government, are best for the voters, I'm all ears.

mrd — November 1, 2011 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 12:19 a.m.

Well nailingit,

That seems to be a subject which you deal in frequently.

kn_dalai — November 1, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


but the protesters are pushing past their rights and breaking the law.

ELISI — October 31, 2011 at 11:16 p.m.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Graduates Versus Oligarchs

Paul Krugman

..... Bernanke — like many others — had made

a fundamental misreading of what’s happening to American society. What we’re seeing isn’t the rise of a fairly broad class of knowledge workers. Instead, we’re seeing the rise of a narrow oligarchy: income and wealth are becoming increasingly concentrated in the hands of a small, privileged elite.

I think of Mr. Bernanke’s position, which one hears all the time, as the 80-20 fallacy. It’s the notion that the winners in our increasingly unequal society are a fairly large group — that the 20 percent or so of American workers who have the skills to take advantage of new technology and globalization are pulling away from the 80 percent who don’t have these skills.

Why would someone as smart and well informed as Mr. Bernanke get the nature of growing inequality wrong? Because the fallacy he fell into tends to dominate polite discussion about income trends, not because it’s true, but because it’s comforting. The notion that it’s all about returns to education suggests that nobody is to blame for rising inequality, that it’s just a case of supply and demand at work. And it also suggests that the way to mitigate inequality is to improve our educational system — and better education is a value to which just about every politician in America pays at least lip service.

The idea that we have a rising oligarchy is much more disturbing. It suggests that the growth of inequality may have as much to do with power relations as it does with market forces. Unfortunately, that’s the real story.
Let me illustrate this point with some CBO data. First, from the new report, here are the income shares of the top 1 percent and the rest of the top quintile:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/graduates-versus-oligarchs/

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — November 1, 2011 at 7:41 a.m.

I'm wondering what his "endgame" really is. Does he want control of the council, or a run for Mayor, maybe he wants to change a law or regulation that would favor his company or does he just have too much money and doesn't know what to do with it.

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Opening statements were heard over the weekend at Joint Base Lewis-McChord at the court martial trial of Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, the suspected ringleader of a self-described "Kill Team" of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, members of a Stryker Brigade who murdered innocent civilians for sport and, in some cases, mutilated their corpses.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/kill-team-soldier-gibbs-goes-on-trial-20111031#ixzz1cSsjC91b

Good morning. Not to be downbeat or start off the month with a bummer, but this story needs to surface more than it has. It's gotten some written/air time, but not enough in my opinion, and that's quite understandable given the environmentally inherent nature of National pride. As one who takes that measure of pride in not only my country, but my countrymen, this is a difficult write/reality to adjust to. This story, when it first became news caused me to physically get sick. I didn't vomit, but my spirit was broken, and my pride turned to shame. Time heals, and justice needs to be part of the salve.

Lets leave Afghanistan/Pakistan/Syria/and too many other countries.. in 2012.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d- I was thinking the same thing after arguing with my kids last night! :))

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye-

he's either an egomaniac-here, "look at me, I can toss away $150,000 and it's no big deal!"-or has an agenda. I don't think he'd toss away that kind of money, I'd guess he'd put it in his church first. I'm betting on an agenda. After all, who had heard of this guy prior to CRC, NoTolls, et all? Where was this outpouring of concern for the taxpayers and citizens prior to seizing a lightning rod issue, the CRC? I could be wrong, I don't know if he or Wentzel were regulars at city council meetings prior to NoTolls.com, but, as I said earlier, I see no good in an individual being able to dump this kind of money in politics. Madore's money illustrates perfectly why our system is so corrupt. It's all about the money.

Whether it be airports "lobbying" to not being fined for allowing planes to sit on runways for over 9 hours, or oil companies and Wall St writing their own regulations, something's gotta change-soon.

mrd — November 1, 2011 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 6:04- Your welcome! In the past I used to spend many hours pouring over stats, articles and applying nuances to Pro baseball/football betting. It's a fun pastime and a way to apply some thinking skills that normally wouldn't happen. Kind of like doing a crossword puzzle in 3D! Love the game, play within your means, do your homework and sports gambling can be fun and pay well at the same time. Fun for the whole family!!! :))

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:06 a.m

I must ask this...Do you blame the soldiers or do you blame the system which put them in that position?

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You're a good sport nailingit.

Too bad your thinking is so badly messed up.

kn_dalai — November 1, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Lets leave Afghanistan/Pakistan/Syria/and too many other countries.. in 2012."

I wish!!!!

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — November 1, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.

Too bad Alleycat isn't around, he went to school on this guy.

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


elisi- There is a lot of blame to go around on many levels. To include most likely these guys childhood.

Blame? I want to blame the system, unprecedented multiple deployments, Congress, their parents, hell I want to blame myself if that makes any sense.

But at this point in time reality and justice needs to be served up. Not only for the victims, the innocent men women and children that have been slaughtered, but for the honor of our military, the proud men and women who serve with honor and integrity, for they far outweigh individuals such as these.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd, hawkeye,

Of course Madore has an agenda - don't we all? And, as long as we allow buying politicians and elections (excuse me, making political contributions) then we'll have people like him trying to influence the political scene. In a way, I can welcome his presence. His willingness to spend big bucks is forcing topics like the CRC to be discussed in all the dirty little details. It also serves to highlight the activities of other groups that have engaged in similar activity - Identity Clark County as a primary example. I believe they have been pushing an agenda for quite some time that benefits a small section of the population and is against the will of the majority as demonstrated in past elections.

Having said that, I'm also of the opinion Madore and his crowd should be watched closely. They represent the side of the Christian evangelical movement that believes the Church should influence and control the State. In my book, they're quite similar to the international Islamic movement - move in, build a majority, and then have that society changed to conform to their religious views.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:06 a.m.

"Lets leave Afghanistan/Pakistan/Syria/and too many other countries.. in 2012."

Ron Paul is the only candidate committed to ending war.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:22 a.m.

A few years back, we began our little trips to Spirit Mountain (even Chinook Winds and Lucky Eagle). Nice place, pleasant surroundings, not too far from the coast...but never came out ahead. We decided to try out the local machines on the Oregon side, hoping maybe just once we might be lucky...were teased with little gains in return. Now??? Not interested in gambling. Why would I ever want to spend our hard-earned money (what there is) to fill the pockets of others if it weren't necessary? Also, it was a hidden message in that strange movie, Idiocracy which REALLY turned me away from gambling, would you believe it. In the movie, they have slot machines in a hospital for entertaining the patients while they wait. I REALLY don't doubt that happening in the future if it means money for the state.

For me??? I'll stick to Crossword Puzzles, Sudoku, Mah Jong and 500-1000 piece scenic puzzles of my favorite destinations along with my hobbies I enjoy along with a nice day trip on a warm summer's day to the coast and gamble on getting my feet doused by the ocean waves. It's a wonderful way to exercise the brain, especially when thinking positive thoughts. But thanks again for your tips, nailingit.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d...Too bad your thinking is so badly messed up.

Well said!?! :))

Aren't you over due for a production? The chief is no longer with us and I expected at least a short screenplay of acknowledgement! No one better to memorialize the cat than you my friend.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 1, 2011 at 8:43 a.m.

Hmm... interesting food for thought.

I guess in my case, I have no issues with someone who doesn't fear telling the world about their faith as I too have no issues sharing the strength of my believes either, but I hear what you're saying, Roger. I've been reading up on information regarding the very subject you speak. I guess your warning runs along the same route as Matthew 7:15..."Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:51 a.m.

This weekend. First of two parts. (Alas, the Chief has only a small role).

kn_dalai — November 1, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.

Morning GO, as you know, I too enjoy the occasional trip to Lucky Eagle and Chinook winds. I'm still boycotting Spirit Mountain for their part in fighting the LaCenter casino. Talk about dumping big bucks into a campaign. I'm sure they are all having tough times right now, I've noticed more Spirit Mountain commercials on TV lately. I haven't been to any of them for a few months, just not enough time or money to spare. We did take a trip to the beach last Saturday but didn't stop at either casino. Doesn't mean I didn't want to though.

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 8:43 a.m.

Agree..Lets just hope this doesn't turn out like it did during Vietnam with people turning their back on the soldiers.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- He wants to end war overseas, but his domestic policies would provoke war within our borders. Destroy the Dept of Ed, FEMA etc. Throw out regulatory measures with healthcare, banking, wallstreet...increase corporate welfare, reverse the civil rights act...just to name a few...I've heard him speak to these issues.

You think Occupy might turn violent now...just think...it could get a lot worse.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit and ELISI...doesn't the thought of a bit of brainwashing these guys into thinking they were doing the right thing...to make them a better soldier...ever cross your mind?

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Morning folks, I need to ask a question here......How does everyone feel about having to support the Neighborhood Associations of both the City of Vancouver and Clark County? Do you feel it's a waste of Taxpayers' Money??

karma — November 1, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh Hawkeye, the temptation never goes away. I just choose to put my money into secure investments...even if it's just an Andrew Jackson or two. I don't mind stopping in for lunch in SM's buffet on our way to the coast. Didn't care for LE's buffet. CW's??? It's mediocre. Their restaurant has much to be desired as far as I'm concerned, though. I also wouldn't mind catching a show at any one of them some time. I know my hubby still likes to play the games, for a short while...unless he's ahead. I'd just watch and urge him onto our destination, lol.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I hope you don't mind if I chime in on your question to Frobert at 9:02 am. I have a serious concern that we are going to be seeing a lot more violent scenario at these overnighter Occupy protests. People are fed up with what they are being dealt in their lives.

.

Karma...care to share a bit more about the subject?

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m.

Increase corporate welfare? Reverse the civil rights act?

You really need to read what he has to say and ignore what the liberal sites have to say.

As far as the dept of ed and fema go, what have they done for anyone?

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd, have you checked out where the money is coming from for the other candidates and the business as usual for those folks?? Isn't this being done for them too? Then there is the issue if one gives you money and they will expect the kick back later? Money is the root of the evil of politics?? Then there is the oath that is tossed out the window after it's been said??

karma — November 1, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hillary Clinton's mother died this morning. Condolences to a lady I admire for her strength and service to her country.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:02 a.m

That is a small part of it Golden, there are many factors, some of which nailingit listed.

Brainwashing, I am afraid can go back to even these videos games people play, some movies and even certain types of music.. After awhile a person becomes numb emotionally to sadistic behaviors.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie, it's been brought to my attention that the County is trying adding some new draft code for residential group homes for Juvenals that would require them to do a neighborhood assn. review. This reaks of nimbism of not in my area like they pulled with the Methadone Clinic and excuse me these are regulated by WA State laws. The Clark County Planning Commission is to have this information on the 3rd and public hearings later this month. Does the County not have a public process that we all must abide by and why are they setting up a special interest on this?? Shouldn't they be going after the homes that don't abide by the State laws?? ; )
Or even take a serious look at their NA ordinance that they are in non compliance of??

karma — November 1, 2011 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- "I've heard him speak to these issues". That's why I said that. Damn it I suppose you want me to source! :)) I will if you insist. I have to get a life for awhile today. Promise I will source (if you really think it's necessary) late today. But you know Paul and his positions..come on fro.

""Increase corporate welfare? Reverse the civil rights act?"" No? What would he do concerning the Bush/Obama tax breaks that are due to expire. Also he believes the Fed should not regulate business. That any regulation should be done at the state level, and the free market should solely be in charge of itself.

And if I may parrot Allen of the many times he has asked you questions in regards to this...but yet you haven't provided him with answers that I know of...

Please correct me if I am incorrect on this.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So Karma, in effect...are you telling me that the county wants to get even more into our business, especially if it means a financial gain for them (again)? I'm really glad you brought this to everyone's attention. Looks like I might have to do a bit of searching for more details. Thanks!

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and that business regulation to include having the right to refuse service to another individual based on color, creed, etc. I understand the thought process behind it, the purity of "freedom" so to speak, but we live in a society, and many times we must regulate what human nature has and would destroy. i.e. protection of individual rights that you enjoy. Both foreign and domestic. For the common good. As socialistic/communistic/religiousistic/simplistic as it sounds.

"No man is an island unto himself." Who was it that said that? (I'm really not sure, Jesus? Reagan? Helms?) I'll have to look it up. It's that huge divide, that chasm that exists between Libertarianism and Progressivism. I think. Therefore I don't know. Damn it Tao!

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ron Paul is the only candidate committed to ending war.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 8:44 a.m.

Unfortunately, his rationale for that position is as intellectually bankrupt as his reasoning on original intent and his perverse attacks on liberals.

For one example; his interpretation of Art. 1 Sec. 8 as not a valid support for SS when even the Founding Fathers provided for a similar plan in 1798.

-- - -

Let's not forget:

frobert — October 31, 2011 at 4:13 p.m.

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey everyone....!!!!

Nice start to November. I love the flow of the discussion this morning. It sounds like we're in a coffee shop together with all these different discussions going at once! Nice!!!

I hope it stays around for awhile!

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, elisi,

I read an in depth review of the Stryker trials a couple of months back - it was in either The Tacoma Tribune or The Seattle Times. I haven't been able to locate it again, but here's a Christian Science Monitor version that touches on some of what that reporter said. This article says the Brigade Commander wasn't charged - my memory of the previous article shows letters of concern, etc, placed in the official records of the officer chain of command. That article also said Gibbs and his team were almost completely unsupervised by their leadership when this kill team was operating.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2010/1028/Pentagon-had-red-flags-about-command-climate-in-kill-team-Stryker-brigade

It looks to me like Vietnam all over again. Elisi's question is a good one - do we blame the soldiers or the system that put them there? These are mainly kids in their 20s, serving a combat tour in a country where you have no idea who your friends and your enemies are. People you know and consider friends die. Our military is probably the most professional in the world, and there are numerous controls and ongoing training to make sure we don't have things like this happen. Everything points to these controls being ignored by the Brigade leadership team. Personally, I don't place the primary blame on the junior soldiers. (Yes - I'm sure they knew what they were doing was wrong, and they deserve to be punished.) I look toward the Brigade Commander - Colonel Tunnell - for creating a command climate where someone like Staff Sergeant Gibbs could consider these actions to be an acceptable retaliation against a people that it is quite obvious both had learned to hate.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Go, here is a little of what I received. I'll get the draft code for ya shortly:

Background
Clark County regulates land use through Title 40 (Unified Development Code) of the Clark County Code. In residential zoning districts, the primary use of property is to permit residential uses and those “accessory” to residential uses. As in all zoning districts, the code allows a variety of other uses through review and approval criteria or a conditional use permit (CUP). Other types of uses include churches, day care centers and schools.

A recent case involving a home licensed by Washington Department of Social and Health Services and housing six (6) or fewer juveniles who have 24-hour care posed a challenge about which section of county code regulates such use. Absent specific regulatory provisions in Title 40, staff determined the use would fall under a “residential care home,” which requires a CUP.

On March 24, 2011, the Board of County Commissioners adopted an interim ordinance that better defines “residential care home.” The interim ordinance makes clear that a home with juveniles would be regulated as a residential care home and not as any other use, such as an adult family home.

Proposed Code
The commission is asked to consider a proposed county code that specifically regulates a “staffed residential home,’ as defined by Washington Administrative Code (WAC). The proposed code has development standards and a review process that differ from those for a “residential care home.”

The proposed code provides: 1) a definition consistent with state code; 2) a section in the special use chapter of Title 40 (CCC 40.260); 3) development standards and requirements; 4) types of zones where this use would be authorized; 5) a review process. In short, the proposed code would allow a “staffed residential home’ in urban residential, rural residential and rural commercial zones through a Type 2-A process.

The Type 2-A process is an alternative to the CUP process, and requires the applicant to hold a neighborhood meeting to exchange information about the proposal. The proposed code for a “staffed residential home’ outlines additional requirements beyond what is needed for a standard neighborhood meeting. With any Type 2-A process, a public hearing before a county hearing examiner is required if the applicant requests one, the responsible official requires one, or anyone requests one within 21 days of the beginning of the public comment period.

karma — November 1, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 9:48 a.m.

You should actually read article 1 section 8.

"Let's not forget:"
Did you really expect a response to that mindless babble?

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 9:02. Brainwashing occurs at many levels with different people. We are all "cleansed" to some degree. What these guys did...goes to the soul. And they certainly can't play the blame game on society to include the Military given the horrific premeditated/mutilations/bragging about it SOB's they are. Actions such as these will reverberate for decades with the families of the victims. Incidents such as these, if not brought to a sense of justice for these families will last for generations. This isn't the first incident of planned attacks on private citizens by our troops in foreign countries/Iraq/Afghanistan. The horrific nature of this really brings this issue front and center.

Imagine living in a country where a super power has invaded your country under false pretenses, killed will over a Hundred Thousand of your countrymen, occupied your country close to a decade, and incidents like this go unpunished? These folks might be 10,000 miles away, but they are folks like you and me. Different color, language and habits, but they laugh, love and embrace life just like we do.

War is bad for all living things. Give peace a chance. Kool-aid Kool-aid tastes great...Kool-aid Kool-aid can't wait! End These Damn Wars!

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We have criminals on both sides of the military/civilian fence. Nobody should get a pass. A chosen profession is just that. Do your job with honor and integrity. Even if no one is watching.

That's what I tell my kids anyway!!! I'm pretty old school wen it comes to employment.

Although there have been times that retribution without consequence would be great! :))

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well now, how ya goin to screw them now????

Bank of America has dropped its planned $5 monthly debit card fee, in a complete reversal of its announcement late September that attracted a maelstrom of customer anger.

"We have listened to our customers very closely over the last few weeks and recognize their concern with our proposed debit usage fee," David Darnell, co-chief operating officer, said in a statement today. "Our customers' voices are most important to us. As a result, we are not currently charging the fee and will not be moving forward with any additional plans to do so."

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Go, I'm not allowed to post the proposed draft without breaking it in parts and have to have others post between doing so.

This is the section I'm having real problems with:

C. Development Standards and Requirements.
1. Prior to the submittal of an application for a staffed residential home, a neighborhood meeting, as required by Section 40.510.025(C)(2), shall be conducted. The information provided at the neighborhood meeting shall include:
a. A comprehensive description of the proposed use and operation;
b. The number of children to be served and the number of on-site supervisors; and,
c. A general description of the treatment program.
2. A written summary of the neighborhood meeting shall be submitted by the applicant with the Conditional Use Permit application, and shall include:
a. A list of issues brought up by neighbors; and,
b. The applicant’s response to each issue.
3. A minimum of one (1) on-site paved parking space shall be provided for each adult supervisor.
4. Perimeter fencing shall be required along the side and rear boundaries of the site. The fence shall be a six (6) foot high fence meeting the F2 standard in Section 40.320.010.
5. On-going activities on the site shall be conducted in strict compliance with Section 9.14.010 with regard to noise and disturbances. Violation of said standards shall be considered grounds for revocation of the conditional use permit, in accordance with Section 40.520.030(H).

The County has a process we all must abide by and this give those NA a special interest. Congress only gives NA the right to disperse information!!

karma — November 1, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger and nailingit,

One has to consider the fact the troops have been deployed over and over.
At least in Vietnam they were sent in for a yr then rotated out.
Few chose to go back, and do more tours.
With Iraq and Afghanistan the troops have been used like a revolving door. That plays a part in all of it.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955), (attributed)

I think I know what Al meant. If only it were true. by stating that I realize I most likely don't unders....crap....there it is again.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


karma — November 1, 2011 at 10:15 a.m

I must be missing something. I don't see where there has to be any "Neighborhood Assn". I do see where they want input from the local neighborhood but it doesn't HAVE to be from any association.

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I wouldn't use B of A if they were the last bank standing. We left Wells Fargo more than 14 yrs ago cause of the way they do business, we are with Lacamas Credit Union and are very happy with. I'd never go back to a bank.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


elisi- 10:24...I agree. Unprecedented deployments. The Iraq war has left us with hurt and pain for decades and beyond.

It is the Bush legacy.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:31 a.m.

Yet you invent reasons not to support the only anti war candidate.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Let's not forget:" Did you really expect a response to that mindless babble?

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 10:05 a.m.

Yes, I think there are a few here that would like to see you support your claims about Democratic party opposition to the Civil Rights Act.

Or rather, your very selective recitation...

As I asked:

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 9:12- I appreciate your shout out to the Hill! She's changed the way I have thought about her over the years with her hard work, mind, values and service. Man. Between her and Bill, they display more political savvy than the entire Obama administration. May her Mom rest in peace.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You should actually read article 1 section 8.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 10:05 a.m.

http://history.nih.gov/research/downloads/1StatL605.pdf

Signed by Pres. John Adams

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wonder if only dems are doing this, or neglecting to mention r participation is due to the 'liberal' media?

**Lawmakers eat on a food stamp budget**

Previously, our very own CNN producer Sheila Steffen shopped for a week's worth of groceries for $30 - the amount which would be allotted by food stamps.

Now, Washington D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton is one of a dozen democratic Congressmen taking part in a food stamp challenge organized by various religious groups. The participants are allowed to spend no more than $31.50 a week. That comes to $4.50 a day. The objective is for lawmakers to see for themselves how it feels to live on a limited food budget.

The National Food Stamp Challenge comes as lawmakers on Capitol Hill ponder spending cuts that could adversely affect programs that assist the poor and elderly.

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/10/31/lawmakers-eat-on-a-food-stamp-budget/

Course, we could also discuss "Has anyone stopped to wonder why foodstamps even exist? Why is it the responsibility of our government to feed people? Ok, so someone in government, out of the kindness of their hearts, decided to help out people who are having a hard time. Help, not support. Now these people are complaining that the hand out isn't enough? Something is wrong here. Whatever happened to taking care of ourselve?. We need to teach people responsibility and gratitude. If someone gave one of my children $30 and they said "I want more than that." I would be embarassed."

one of the comments; gee, wonder whose kool-aid they swallowed?

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 10:38 a.m.

I am under the impression that those without enough basic history to understand that republicans supported civil rights and democrats opposed them until 1964 did not come to the "basement" with us. I also am fully aware that you know my statements on the opposition to the civil rights act of 1957 are totally factual.

In answer to your question about those that changed party affiliations because of civil rights, I would have to say that very few democrats actually renounced their party's position by joining the republican party.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 10:12, elisi @ 10:24,

Elisi makes an excellent point - we're still learning to understand and deal with the psychological impact on someone who lives through a stressful/traumatic period, and then has new experiences piled on before coming to grips with the earlier ones. (Or something like that.) Fortunately, we now have the Wounded Warrior programs, and acceptance of PTSD as a real condition. Veterans of previous conflicts usually were on their own.

nailingit - I accept your point that any profession has standards you're expected to adhere to. And seeing as how we've an all volunteer service, the military could be considered a profession - for careerists, anyhow. But kindly consider that some occupations - military, law enforcement, fire fighter, and others - have different stressors than, say a businessman. One is that we hold these people to a much higher standard of personal conduct. 99.99% adhere to this. But the tradeoff is a much higher incidence of failed personal relationships, inability to readjust to living here in the "normal" world, and suicide. Different people have different breaking points. And until you've walked a mile in my shoes....

The soldiers of the Stryker Brigade are being tried in a military court - Staff Sergeant Gibbs has opted for a mixed officer/Noncommissioned Officer board. (My experience from sitting on a few of these was that NCOs were usually tougher than officers - possibly a bad move on his part.) In my opinion, they'll receive a fair trial from their peers. And will be punished appropriately. Seeing as how they're already tried and convicted of horrible war crimes in Rolling Stone, The Oregonian, and other news sources, this is for the best.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 10:43 a.m.

So a pension for the Navy is the same as social security?

Using the reasoning that governmental powers over soldiers carry over to civilian life, wouldn't the majority of the bill of rights be invalid?

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I'm glad to see that Mr. Basil and Frobert are back and holding strong. If we could get an occasional Gospel of The Alleycat, this place would be back to normal. (Whatever normal might be.)

roger — November 1, 2011 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert,

I don't think what Mr. Basil posted pertains to the Navy. When I see terms like "coastal trade" I'm thinking the intent is a tax on the wages of all merchant ship sailors so as to build a fund to care for those crippled and unable to go back to sea/earn a livelihood.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 1, 2011 at 11:46 a.m.

I see that now, I had just skimmed it earlier. Thank you.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert,

No problem. I saw you two were continuing the discussion we had yesterday, and didn't want to see it sidetracked.

Of course, I'd like to see Mr. Basil give the proper credit to LBJ, instead of Democrats as a party - but whatever.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

But I bet all these people are properly sensitized to the need of junior high teachers and Vancouver mayors to wear womens' pants.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Homeland Security May Up Social Media Intelligence Gathering

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/us-government-social-media_n_1069203.html?ref=technology&icid;=maing-grid7|main5|dl21|sec1_lnk3|109232

"COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- The wave of uprisings across North Africa and the Middle East that have overturned three governments in the past year have prompted the U.S. government to begin developing guidelines for culling intelligence from social media networks, a top Homeland Security official said Monday. Department of Homeland Security Undersecretary Caryn Wagner said the use of such technology in uprisings that started in December in Tunisia shocked some officials into attention and prompted questions of whether the U.S. needs to do a better job of monitoring domestic social networking activity."

This means The Columbian's facebook side! And I bet they've started files on those two notorious rabblerousers - John Laird and Lew "Occupy Vancouver" Waters.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Freddie and Fannie hand out $12.79 million to 10 in bonuses

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

If anyone else has or finds anything else on this let me know.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Super Committee Could Pass A Resolution Giving Itself More Time

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/super-committee-deficit-reduction-deadline_n_1069562.html

WASHINGTON -- The congressional super committee tasked with finding $1.5 trillion or so in deficit reduction is racing against the clock. Under its charter, the committee's 12 members must pass a proposal and make recommendation to Congress by November 23... But if the super committee is running out of time, its members have the luxury of granting themselves an extension... The committee can pass a resolution that would move the November 23 deadline back a few weeks (or more, if necessary)...The main holdup, however, is that few think time will help bring the bipartisan committee members any closer together... Beyond that, there has been virtually no common ground, with revenues remaining the major sticking point... "Because the GOP is not engaged at all on revenues ... more time won't matter," a Democratic Hill aide emailed. "In short, it's not a matter of time -- this could go on forever and they would still stand there offering a giant middle finger."

And I hope this supercommittee is in the front car on that train to Hawaii.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye, they are making NA a special interest with this draft code, where they have to bring the said proposed home to them and that is just for their review. Sorry but the County already has a process and the NA can speak, mind you they can speak for only those that attend a said meeting. But the way they are writing this it's then makes them a special interest. Who will be next, builders, real estate or even schools?

karma — November 1, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*civil rights act of 1957 are totally factual.*

You brought a few very selected facts; not exactly " totally factual' by being limited in scope.

As I asked:

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

- -

A single example; Strom Thurmond D turned R due to stance on CR.......

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Using the reasoning that governmental powers over soldiers carry over to civilian life, wouldn't the majority of the bill of rights be invalid?*

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 11:26 a.m.

If you want to make that case, I'd really like to see the mental gymnastics involved.

Not that that has anything to do with the bill signed by President John Adams in 1798.....

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 9:45,

John Donne said something like that. I sort of recall arguments back in the day over whether this was what prompted Paul Simon to write "I Am A Rock."

roger — November 1, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — November 1, 2011 at 12:14 p.m.

Gee, I wonder why the "travel agent" didn't add the party affiliation........

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Of course, I'd like to see Mr. Basil give the proper credit to LBJ, instead of Democrats as a party - but whatever.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 12:18 p.m.

A valid complaint. I was focusing on the rather broad brush being used by frobert.

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Rachel Maddow brought kicking this super committee can down the road scenario about a week ago. I would be surprised to see this resolved before election time. I wouldn't be surprised if this "solution" was put into place for talking points for next years election. It's bizarre and scary that our government functions at the level of a permissive parent. "Finish your homework for Monday before you go out and play", turns into "Quit throwing a tantrum, make sure it's done before bedtime Sunday night." It doesn't get done and the kid takes a hit on his/her GPA. Downgraded one could say! :))

kn_d @ 8:58 I shall reserve a spot in the gallery.I prefer to fly parterre, but will adjust to the subterranean levels of the basement. :))

roger @ 1:49...If it inspired Paul Simon then it must ring true! Long live Simon!

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


karma,

From your 10:15 post on the subject (neighborhood review of juvenile residential homes), it looks like the proposed county ordnance is directed toward homes where kids with either behavioral or legal problems will be housed. Is this correct? If so, then I find it highly appropriate that if someone is proposing such a home, then neighbors should have the right to have their questions answered prior to the facility being opened. If this facility is a highly structured treatment facility for kids as their last step before reintegrating to society - there shouldn't be a problem. But if it's somewhere to house problem kids and will be poorly run, then I sure wouldn't want it in my neighborhood. It sounds to me as though the intent behind this ordnance is to allow the neighborhood a chance to find out which is the case.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 8:45-"We decided to try out the local machines on the Oregon side, hoping maybe just once we might be lucky...were teased with little gains in return."

Machines are there to rip you off, as the entire gaming industry is. You increase your odds ten fold when playing variations of Poker, "BlackJack" and Baccarat. I'm sure a few other card games but these are the ones I used to enjoy, and lend themselves to personal/strategical decision making. The odds are somewhat with you and I was moderately successful on occasion. :)) A few personal rules that I follow, find single deck dealers, have very little alcohol if any to drink (There's a reason they serve free drinks at the tables) play within means (set a pre-determined limit as "investment"), keep thoughts on the situation at "hand", and not on the babe that sits down next to you, know when to change tables i.e. inexperienced player screwing up your hand or a dealer that is kicking the daylights out of you, and know when to quit at day/nites end. In the long run...

Know when to hold em', and know when to fold em'!

goldenoldie @ 8:54..."I guess in my case, I have no issues with someone who doesn't fear telling the world about their faith as I too have no issues sharing the strength of my believes either,..."

Care for some friendly Q & A sometime? I totally get it if you would rather not. Faith is often personal.

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, the county has many ways of informing area residents of proposals. Matter of fact the County sends out a weekly email of proposals and pre-applications. One can go to the County's site and read all the proposed items. There is a process one needs to follow but the County wants another layer of what? These homes if legally set up must comply with WA State laws, so if the County gets a complaint can they legally shut them down if they have complied with the State laws? Then this brings up who is going to enforce this? The County can't enforce those that don't comply with the septic tank laws?? But again none of us with Septic Tanks received Written Public notice of the proposed move to yearly fees.
The County should focus on illegally run homes??

karma — November 1, 2011 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — November 1, 2011 at 3:26 p.m.

Well, the humor could be looked at as something similar to ethnic jokes that can be virtually interchangeable; the polish, the mexican, the....... who thought that cruise control on an RV lets one go back and take a nap, make a cup of coffee,.....

This humor would work for Republican presidential candidates, Libertarians doing research in the Public Library, ex-posters here........

Whatever group one feels worthy of the implied insult.

*"I haven't seen a creditable source from fro"*

One of the reasons why I asked fro for a bibliography of what informs his thinking; much of the stuff googles out to some odd forum or other. The small element of truth in any one claim is generally only there through a lot of manipulation, selectivity, or overbroad generalization.

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen,

Reference the airline stories - they've managed to get a spot on Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/travel/trap/congress.asp

I was checking, because Mr. Basil's comment got me to thinking - are these people all Dems?

But we still need that train trip to Hawaii!!

roger — November 1, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And since he hasn't answered any of my questions, I am getting close to completely ignore him. But to give him credit, he does raise some good points once in awhile. Oh well, that is what makes the whine cellar so great, all kinds of people from different walks of life.
Allen — November 1, 2011 at 3:26 p.m*

I agree Allen, we all come here with different opinions, due to experiences and influences in our lives. One must remember that foremost. If we all think, voted, dress, live exactly like the next person, it would be a very boring world. No need for a forum, newspapers, blogs, news etc.
So why ignore frobert? Just go with the flow, he has his right to his opinion without showing or explaining why as you, I and anyone else does. Having to prove why one thinks/feels the way they do is bs (bologna story). We are adult here are we not? Not jr or sr high school students.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- "The small element of truth in any one claim is generally only there through a lot of manipulation, selectivity, or overbroad generalization."

For a sec I thought you might be referring to Fox News!

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If Clinton would have done his job, osama bin ladin would have been taken out years ago and going into Iraq probably wouldn't have happened. We won't be leaving Afhanistan for a long time and probably will be back in Iraq sooner or later. If this is the case, it's time to start the draft. Without it, anyone joining the military is making a big mistake. The main job of the military is fighting wars, so by enlisting, you are willing to go to war and possibly die for your country. If I am going to give my life fighting a war, I want the country or countries for which I am fighting to appreciate my sacfrifice. I don't think the people in the mid-east give a damn about me losing my life. All they care about is how much money the United States pours into their country. Since we are going to stay there for a while, let's actually fight a war. Too hell with the civilians, and get the TV cameras out of there. War is war and needs to be fought as such, not just for television ratings.

cranky — November 1, 2011 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 1:46 p.m.

In what has become usual Basil fashion, you point out the mistake I have already acknowledged. Does that somehow make you feel smarter?

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Everybody!!! Are you ready??? On November 9th, the FCC will be conducting a top to bottom test of the Emergency Alert System. This test will be conducted on all radio and television stations. It will be at 2:00 pm Eastern Time, 11:00 am Pacific time. It's supposed to last 3 minutes. This is only a test of the Emergency Alert System.

Seriously, this is the very first time such a test of the EAS has been conducted.

So what are they preparing for?

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


cranky,

I agree with a lot of what you say - we've got no business sending our troops where they're being used strictly for politics or to support some major corporation. We should deploy to fight for protection of ourselves and our allies - not Big Oil and the Saudi royal family's interests. And when we do go, hit them with everything we have. We had no business being in Iraq. We had al Qaeda broken early on, and then somehow let them escape to Pakistan. And I'm not thrilled with the Media's ability to be present - especially when the Marines are landing in Somalia or when Geraldo is drawing our plan of attack in the sands of Iraq. Finally, at a certain point we need to say enough is enough - when we've got troops making 6 or more deployments to a combat theater, we need to either shut operations down or reinstitute the draft. It is totally wrong for a small percentage of our population to be going through that hell, while the rest of this country carries on with their daily lives as though nothing is happening.

I don't agree with "to hell with the civilians" - that just breeds future generations of America haters. Also, we should maintain a level of decency - call it morality or whatever.

During Clinton's Presidency our military was still feeling Gramm Rudman and only able to sustain one theater. He chose Macedonia - probably because of the possible impact of two full blown conflicts on Europe. (Russia was brawling with Chechnya and others at that time too.) And I think a lot of his advisors were telling him to take steps to protect the European Muslim minorities (Kosovo and Chechnya) - probably to pacify the Saudis and others, and to try to use this goodwill to work toward peace with Israel. Also, when the Cole was hit and the embassy in Africa bombed, I doubt our intelligence knew enough about bin Laden's network to make a concerted effort to take him out. But this is mostly a guess - based on Bush 2's inner circle declaring that our intelligence agencies were broke.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*So why ignore frobert? Just go with the flow, he has his right to his opinion without showing or explaining why as you, I and anyone else does. Having to prove why one thinks/feels the way they do is bs (bologna story)....*

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 3:57 p.m.

So we should assume no one is lying, making up or repeating half-truth; assume they are right without any evidence?

Sorry, but when an opinion is stated as fact, when a fact is misused, when facts are ignored, there is plenty of reason to call the poster on it.

OR:

"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

Bernard Baruch

mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie at 4:55: Ooo, I LOVE intrigue and innuendo!

Do you realize that the date of the first national EAS coming up, 11/9 is 9/11 backward?

This is the first total "takeover" of all broadcasting networks in the country. Can you text on your cell during this time?

Makes me wonder........This is a perfect way to shut down viral communication in an emergency, I would say. Didn't social media and texting help take down dictatorships recently?

Let us know if you find out any more about what might be really behind this "test!"

manthou — November 1, 2011 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — November 1, 2011 at 3:26 p.m.

I have posted plenty of credible sources, you on the other hand have refused many times to provide sources for your "facts".

Also if you are going to start trying to insult people, I have to bring up your nightly incoherent possibly drunken posts that everyone ignores.

Go ahead and hit that ignore button I am sick and tired of your misinformed partisan rhetoric anyway. At least the other partisan people on here admit it.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: I found some interesting commentary about the implications of this first ever nationwide EAS from the Tea Party Nation.

God help me (you can march me to the South 40 and put me out of my misery now, nailingit, PLEASE), it asks some good questions, like "Who owns the airwaves?" Or am I just tired and in a fog from a long day at work?

Read on and let me know your thoughts:

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blogs/the-upcoming-eas-test-brings-up-a-very-good-question

manthou — November 1, 2011 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi (and whoever else cares),

I've argued the same point as you did - about having to support statements with sources. And got jumped by BOTH Mr. Basil and Frobert. I finally came to the realization that they have their own "thing" going on here - this is one never-ending discussion between two different philosophies. The subject matter changes every so often, but the argument is the same. And a while back I even put forth the theory that Frobert and Mr. Basil are in fact the same person. Anyhow, you, Allen, I, and whoever else wants are free to interject an opinion - as long as we play by their rules. And as long as we remember who has center stage.

There's good info being exchanged in their discussions, so I pay attention. (I also paid attention to Alleycat, though he got rather long winded and irritating towards the end - especially when he and Goldie were arguing.)

And I'm sure we each all have our own eccentricities, faults, irritations, or whatever that can be put forth in detail by others, if someone chooses to.

What continues to have my interest is Mr. Basil's assumed name here. I referenced this once before, but was ignored. I had an English Lit prof that thought Evelyn Waugh was a great writer, and she had us read one of his lesser known works where the principal character was Mr. Basil Seal. A story about an Englishman going to an African country and teaching the ruler Western ways - based loosely on Haille Selassie, who came to power in Ethiopia about that time. That was in 1973. I've never run across the name again until here. I'll be damned if I can remember that prof's name, or I'd be asking Mr. Basil if that's who he (she) is.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Top 5 guitar players? My list (in no order - can't do that) is Hendrix, Clapton, Slash, Alvin Lee, and I waver between either Johnny Winter or Toy Caldwell (Marshall Tucker Band - and you had to see this guy live to really appreciate his talent). Also Carlos Santana. Roy Clark is (was?) a genius when playing seriously. No way I can nail down five.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*So we should assume no one is lying, making up or repeating half-truth; assume they are right without any evidence?
Sorry, but when an opinion is stated as fact, when a fact is misused, when facts are ignored, there is plenty of reason to call the poster on it.
OR:
"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."
Bernard Baruch
mr_basil_seal — November 1, 2011 at 5:14 p.m.*

and I suppose you carry a laptop, books, documents etc with you everywhere you go to "prove".. whew boy I can see it now..
restaurant, or a faculty meeting...Basil disagrees, whips out
laptop, books..too funny, I wonder if Hollywood would consider making a movie about it..Call it..Show Your Source **;]**

So Basil lets say I posted here what my Dr told me today, would I have to go get a written statement from him and post the xrays
to "prove" to you what he said that is wrong?

What is one man's truth is another man's lie

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think who was for or against the Civil Rights Act has more to do with geographic location and not necessarily party affiliation.:

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7%–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0%–100%)

Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%–15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5%–95%)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0%–100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%–2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%–16%)

"Am just saying"

pdxtech91 — November 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:17 p.m

Seriously? No Stevie Ray?

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

I just got done telling everyone that you and Mr. Basil will never agree with each other - etc. And now you go and try to prove me wrong by telling Allen that it's in fact he that is the one who is always wrong, or something like that??? Can't you let me be right for once?

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, I don't play by nor do I follow anyone's rules here but the Columbian's rules..as far as my life goes, I follow the law and the morals taught to me by my family.
There is no law in cement that says a person has to provide a source to the way they think or feel.

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91,

Good figures. But it took a lot of arm twisting by LBJ. Those Southern Dems included some of the top power players of the day. A lot more of those Northern Dems should have abstained or voted against passage, but they were more afraid of LBJ and his retribution.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:17 p.m

What about BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Lee Hooker?

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Nope - SRV was lacking something. Sort of like Jeff Beck - true talent but an intangible something just isn't there. Same can be said about many on my list, though....

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

All great choices. And I think we have to include Chuck Berry - his simple but catchy runs inspired the greatest rock band of all - The Stones.

roger — November 1, 2011 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


All of them are great guitar players in their own right.

Now my personal favorite female singers..Stevie Nicks and Tina Turner..Macy Grey reminds me of Janis Joplin

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If Basil could refute my claim he would have posted a link, he can't therefore he tries to refute it with innuendo. Man up Basil prove me wrong.

Roger, I have never posted by any other name then frobert.

ELISI I was wondering when someone would mention B.B.King.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: We're the Lone Rangers on the ESA issue. I thought it was interesting. Thanks for the info. The implications for abuse are there, for sure. I am thinking of a phrase I saw recently: I love my country. It's the politicians and government I don't trust. Or something to that effect.

roger: I would put Mark Knopfler on that list. :)

sportyjames @ 6:14: Glad to see you expand your posts. I absolutely agree with you: get our troops out of those countries and keep our money home.

manthou — November 1, 2011 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi guys, just got back from a day at the coast and what a perfect day it was with perfect weather.
As always, decided to read Cellar for daily chuckles and was not disappointed. As I had to catch up with everything from around 9am on, I got to agree with Goldie. It's like a coffee shop today! The usual crowd, the Fro/basil show, great info on various topics and a gentle discussion of best guitar players (I opt for Clapton).
All that is needed now is the Cat to chime in and tell us how doomed we are. Today he would truly be correct what with the moronic Greek prez asking for a referendum. They caused so much damage to markets already with their shenanigans and now this?
O Alley where are you when I need more doom and gloom?

luvithere — November 1, 2011 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yea Fro, you're right. Cain's the guy.

Cain Accuser Got a Year’s Salary in Severance Pay

The National Restaurant Association gave $35,000 — a year’s salary — in severance pay to a female staff member in the late 1990s after an encounter with Herman Cain, its chief executive at the time, made her uncomfortable working there, three people with direct knowledge of the payment said on Tuesday.

The woman was one of two whose accusations of sexual harassment by Mr. Cain, now a Republican candidate for president, led to paid severance agreements during his 1996-99 tenure as the association’s chief. Disclosure of the cases has rocked Mr. Cain’s campaign just as he was surging in polls.

Further challenging Mr. Cain, a lawyer for the second woman called on the restaurant association to release her from a confidentiality agreement signed as part of her settlement, raising the prospect that she could publicly dispute Mr. Cain’s account of what happened.

hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Manthou, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. It's been one of those afternoons. Regarding the EAS, I believe it is quite a beneficial test they are running in the event there is a national disaster for which we all should be warned. I'm not sure how effective it would be, but it would definitely cut back the jibber jabber from the news people trying to report on something when they didn't have all the facts and generated a lot of long winded rhetoric in the meantime.

What does concern me is the Occupy protests that are beginning to show signs of violence. We've been witnessing the union protests...now a zombie protest over coal??? Confusion, lack of control by government? Protestors camped out on Federal Property? What was it...10 were arrested? And how many of them were actually part of the Occupy Portland? I'm curious.

Some conspiracy theorists might suggest that this is a test run for when the government decides to utilize the Executive Order which on the surface established the Council of Governors in order to better coordinate government services during time of national issues...and within that Executive Order is the reference to securing our homeland with Martial Law.

I could go on...like when the 32 people were arrested here in Vancouver for some BIG TIME marijuana drug sting...and one of the local news stations mentioned they were being processed at the military training center...then changed their report to reflect that it was actually at the fire station near the center.

Hmmm....

Well Manthou...there's your conspiracy theory for the night. See how easy it is for me to get my curiosity going on news and events and how easy it is to connect the dots??? All one has to do is review the last few years of events even in our little city/county/state...and it really makes one think if these really are conspiracies or possibly the state of things to come???? BTW, good catch on that 9/11 - 11/9 reflective moment.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, sorry I didn't get right back to you on your comment at 2:38 p.m. I don't mind being asked questions about religion. I will be up front and honest with you right now, though. I have a lot to learn about scriptures as well as the religion of other cultures. I am not one who goes to church every weekend, although I still say my prayers and try to follow in the traditional teachings I was taught many years ago. Anything we discuss we would base our information on how we interpret what we have read. If you don't mind though...any questions you ask tonight, I'll be waiting till morning to review and respond. It's been a busy evening and I need to get some shuteye.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Karma, I caught your information at 10:15. I'll be reviewing it tomorrow and get back to you then. Till tomorrow...

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen!!!

I can see that some people here in the Whine Cellar are still working at getting your dander up. Remember, we're just a bunch of words on a website and some people are choosing words just to tick you off. That's what I have to keep telling myself or I sometimes feel like I'm going to implode.

Is it really worth expelling all that negative energy??? It never is whenever I'm in the same boat.

Remember the old "Sticks and Stones" saying??? Good time to recite!

Now breathe....inhale, exhale....inhale, exhale.... Think good thoughts! I don't know about you, but I'm outta here for the night. It's not healthy to head off to slumberland, thinking about irritating comments. I wish you and everyone else on the C a good night.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: Problem is with any kind of organized protest, they will always attract a "fringe" element just because. That pollutes the power of the message and is a negative distraction, for sure.

I am very glad that our Occupy Vancouver group remembers its manners.

When I wanted to get my kids' attention, I always spoke very softly so they had to listen harder......:)

manthou — November 1, 2011 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — November 1, 2011 at 7:40 p.m.

I can't believe anyone took him seriously after the 9-9-9 plan.

frobert — November 1, 2011 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou & goldenoldie- I hope this EAS test isn't predicated on something scary like a loose nuke. With the percentage of shipping containers that are inspected from overseas, it's almost a miracle that we haven't been hit with a WMD of some sort. Not to be gloom & doom, but some of the realities dictate changing the way we do business. Libertarian's focus on small government and $$$ to fund Fed entities could be a problematic in many areas. Maybe we should have a special "Billionaires Security Tax" to be targeted towards securing assets that belong or have productive outcome for the "taxees" involved! :))

World wide top 10 (2011) [Wiki]

Rank Country/Region Number of billionaires[1] Share of
world total (%) Billionaires per 10M Category
— World total 1210 100.0 1.7
1 United States 412 34.0 13.2 American billionaires
2 People's Republic of China 115 10.6 0.9 Chinese billionaires
3 Russia 101 8.3 7.1 Russian billionaires
4 India 55 4.5 0.5 Indian billionaires
5 Germany 52 4.3 6.4 German billionaires
6 Turkey 38 3.1 5.2 Turkish billionaires
7 Hong Kong 36 3.0 51.0 Hong Kong billionaires
8 United Kingdom 33 2.7 5.3 British billionaires
9 Brazil 30 2.5 1.6 Brazilian billionaires
10 Japan 26 2.1 2.0 Japanese billionaires

" Nuclear or radioactive materials, explosives, weapons, or even terrorist operatives could be smuggled in a container. It is because of these vulnerabilities that cargo containers have been described as the “modern day Trojan horse” or the “poor man’s missile.” http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/highlights/trade_news/cargo_security.xml

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/washington/26port.html

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry for the format. Interesting to note, Hong Kong has a incredible disproportionate percentage of billionaires to population compared to the rest of the world. America lays claim to 34% of the world's billionaires, counting 412 @ 13.2 fatcat's per 10 million citizens. Hong Kong lays claim to 3% of the worlds billionaires with....51 billionaires per 10 million! I wonder if tips are good in the service industries!

nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 11:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, hawk , elisi, fro. Would like to give further input with the guitar gods. Given the criteria is personal favorites Hendrix is at the top of my list and reigns supreme in heaven and on earth! :))

roger- great insight to the "intangibles" part of the equation. Although I disagree about applying it to Stevie Ray, I do with some others. Currently I think Joe Bonamassa (playing in Portland Dec. 14) is one of the most incredible/talented blues players in the world. But imo lacks that ooomph/soulacsiousness vibe that sets apart the greats from the Gods.

Johnny Winter, Stevie Ray, Alvin Lee... since we are going fairly mainstream and keeping it to 5, someone that has incredible technic/tone/phrasing and without a doubt possesses that unseen "mojo" is David Gilmore of [The] Pink Floyd. Perhaps the most melodic human on the planet.

elisi! Great choices with Vai & Satriani! Vai blows my mind and no doubt a guitar god and one of the greats of all time, Joe right up there. Did you know Vai cut his chops playing with Frank Zappa? Zappa's guitar playing was "genius" to be sure.

goldenoldie @ 8:17...Thanks for your openness. I might ask you sometime. It would be interesting if different posters stated their core beliefs and the reasons why. Absolutes to include taxes are spoken about frequently. Not so with death and what's beyond.

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 12:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Had to give a shout out to James Patrick Page or I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight!

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit at 11:36 pm: Like your idea of a "Billionaires Security Tax!" I sympathize with folks who want smaller government, but we need to fund something, somehow. We can't shutter the Feds doors like a bankrupt business. We need an infusion of funds to keep the furnace stoked.

On the local front: Good for the C and Andrea Damewood for digging into Josephine Wentzel's CASA Volunteer bonafides. It could be that she provided this critical volunteer work in another city, so why won't she produce the evidence requested?

Check out David Madore's FB comments on the story: threats and self-promotion abound. I used to think he was soft-spoken and humble.

My bad.

manthou — November 2, 2011 at 5:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Daily 'Couve has been brutal (as in ha-ha funny spot on) with David Madore of late: http://dailycouve.blogspot.com/

Who are the brilliant minds behind this blog? Any guesses?

manthou — November 2, 2011 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere - Good observation - we debated greatest guitar players without hostility. Too bad we can't carry this to politics and religion.

Nailingit - After I shut down last night Jimmy Page came to mind - no way he gets left out!. Actually, where I think his true greatness shines through is when he goes accoustic 12 string. Zep 3 has always been my favorite album of their's.

Elisi opened a whole new can, with her greatest female singers post. I saw Fleetwood Mac in their heyday, and Stevie Nicks is great. Janis - the best of her genre/era. Aretha. Gladys Knight. Some that were really good just never made it. The lady who did the female part of Paradise By The Dashboard Light - her rawness was powerful. I wish I could find more from Merry Clayton - her part in Gimme Shelter has been done by many (Wilson sisters, Fergie come to mind), but none get close.

roger — November 2, 2011 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning my fellow Cellar Dweller!!! How are you this crispy autumn morning??? In response to your comment last night at 8:49, Manthou...I totally agree with you that the Occupy Vancouver organization minds it's manners. It is also my opinion that it is much more effective without having to see the polluted reports, complaining about those who have been arrested or removed. Occupy Vancouver gets their message out and in turn makes sure the event also extends it's hands out to help those in need. Yes, the other Occupy gatherings are doing the same...but the overnighters are really muddying the waters.

goldenoldie — November 2, 2011 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 12:28 a.m.

In response...I truly believe EVERYONE has core beliefs for which they follow and need to be reminded as to why we have those beliefs and why sometimes, we don't practice what we preach. To follow any religion, no matter if it is Christian, Buddhism, Muslim, Judaism, Mother Earth, Scientology or any other, we should all hold true to our beliefs and understand that we all need to do so without injury or heartache to others. I also believe that it takes dedication and a good measure of restraint to control ourselves from telling those of other faith if theirs is right or wrong.

goldenoldie — November 2, 2011 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 1, 2011 at 11:36 p.m.

I was just hearing on the news this morning that there are "dirty" shipping containers leaving to several destinations from somewhere in Asia. Some have radioactive elements, others...residuals from chemicals used to ship potentially explosive containers. Possibly the reasoning behind the EAS on the 9th???

goldenoldie — November 2, 2011 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Madore took issue with an article concerning one of his puppets running for city council. He may not see all of what his PAC prints, but I,ll never believe he didn't see a copy of a mass mailing. I read somewhere were Madore was ticked at The C for some reason, so he threatened to or did cancel his subscription. Now he's warning The C they're "burning their bridges". Does this guy think The C needs him? That the paper's future looks bleak without him? Or is he frustrated because he doesn't have enough money to control what they publish? The more Madore opens his mouth, the further I'd like to see him go away.

Whether or not Wentzel did volunteer for CASA is really irrelevant, but her puppetmaster is relevant. These two would be like have two Madores on the council-who'd want that?

mrd — November 2, 2011 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd: It has been mentioned in the past that some thought Madore's clout in the public eye should be used to it's full potential. You know..."He's got the successful business, he's got the money...how 'bout he does something to fight the good ol' boys?" So when he does, now he's a puppet master and is considered a threat???

In recent days, I had the chance to stand in a crowd of several people, voicing my opinions and concerns regarding the Bus Rapid Transit plan. Mr. Madore was one of those people. He was a soft-spoken man, quite polite and showed honest intentions of suggestions to the folks with C-Tran in order to show improvements to our public transit system. It wasn't the David Madore show, either.

I'm not saying I totally agree with him on everything as I believe I do not but I do agree that the C is burning bridges to lock certain people out of speaking their minds. You can agree or disagree with me...that's your choice.

You say "These two would be like having two Madores on the council-who'd want that???

Honestly??? It would be better than what is there now!

goldenoldie — November 2, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO-
You may be right. Two of Madore's puppets may be better than what's currently there. So voting for these two, out of frustration, dislike, or whatever, is just kicking the can down the road. Gotta break that cycle sometime.

We're at a point where voting AGAINST someone has gotten us garbage for "leaders", most of whom have an ear only for their big supporters. That's what we have now and what we're likely to get more of next Nov. Seems like eventually we're going to have to cut the tie from big money to their puppets.

mrd — November 2, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ron Paul hasn't taken any Wall Street money.

Obama and Romney have taken millions.

frobert — November 2, 2011 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldenoldie, no need. I'm just shocked folks here are ready to give up their rights to NA leaders that push the 'Nimby' ideas or their agendas when Congress only gives them the right to disperse government information. We all have a voice and to allow NA to speak for you is just mind boggling when they are in place to push gov upon us when they have stacked the deck so to say, especially here. NA programs are not worth the tax dollars being spent for this program when there are emergency needs. Are you aware they have stated that they can speak for all the citizens?

karma — November 2, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 5:32...Just read the article and FB comments.....

Wow! All things must come to an end. If DM has personal political aspirations we'll see them soon or not at all. A puppet on a string is only as good as the puppeteer. Malfunctions usually cause doubling down, retreat, or a simple apology. I don't see apology on the horizon!

---An open invitation to Joe & Dave---

I'm sure you guys get caught up every now and then in the Whine Cellar. If for no other reason fishing for a defamatory remark. You guys need to pursue a different strategy. If you are basing your responses/non-responses to issue at hand with the way Herman Cain is handling his situation...you are doomed to fail.

Playing the "victim card" works at the national level, (i.e. Cain's numbers going through he roof right now :)) Not so much at the local level. Your windbag is limited to a small media venue, where as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other "conservative" hosts reach a vast audience, and even to the small fraction the message appeals to, amounts in the millions, and adds a squeak to the political wheel.

Your windbag, although more full of air than a blustery March morning and able to reach incoherent conclusions with a single hound, won't sell. Not at this level.

I volunteer my political expertise to your campaign for a nominal fee. I'll turn it around, and steer it in the direction it was always destined for...

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*So Basil lets say I posted here what my Dr told me today, would I have to go get a written statement from him*

ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.

Well, first you are attempting to present a false equivalency and a rather odd 'example'.

The issue was about frobert's penchant for being very selective with his facts, his tendency to overstate a position based on a very incomplete reading of history, and his general inability to support his claims.

Sure, you and anyone else can have whatever opinion you wish;
but when it is obvious that that opinion was based on a faulty reading of basic history, then expect to be called on it.

frobert was attempting to make claims about original intent and I pointed out that, since he hadn't read thoroughly, he was skipping some rather important facts.

Which is why I have also asked him:

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I drove my kid to school this morning and the first tunes playing were heartbreaker/living loving (she's just a woman). Talk about memories of days with no worries!

goldenoldie @ 6:40 Agreed! @ 6:48. National security is like throwing a dart in the wind. Politicians spend much time with talk of securing our borders, (which are monitored to some degree) in the context of national security/immigration. I hope more focus has been applied to the container/security aspect separate from other issues. You would think so, but at the time of 9/11 98% of our oversea shipping containers went without inspection. I can research and source if need be, but at the moment I am having a moment of lucidity at the moment momentarily. :)) I'm sure of my assertion.

This type of border is the most vulnerable, to include selling stateside security contracts to middle eastern corporations that are left to monitor themselves. imho.

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 1, 2011 at 7:04 p.m.

You are the one making the claims.

Claims that, once again, you can't or won't bring support for.

In fact, I provided evidence that shows up your faulty thinking and you haven't responded about those; so perhaps the 'manning up' is in your court.

You, once again, are hanging a huge claim on the scantlings of a few very selected facts; it your case had any merit, you'd be able to support it through a more complete analysis.

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning Whine Cellar!!
Another fine day to wake up and sing....

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

I need to laugh and when the sun is out
I've got something I can laugh about
I feel good in a special way
I'm in love and it's a sunny day

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

We take a walk, the sun is shining down
Burns my feet as they touch the ground

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

Then we'd lie beneath the shady tree
I love her and she's loving me
She feels good, she knows she's looking fine
I'm so proud to know that she is mine.

Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine, Good Day Sunshine

Beattles 1966

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 8:40 a.m.

If you have proof that my statements are incorrect please provide it. You are challenging my statements but refuse to back up your challenge.

frobert — November 2, 2011 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 2, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.

Sagan 101. Your claims; support them. Do a review of the literature rather than pull one talking point to hang your case on.

In fact, start over; tell us again what the point is you are trying to prove.

mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 12:28 a.m

Vai is my son's favorite. I wish I could get my son to comment on here, he could tell you much more than I ever could about Vai.

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 9 a.m.

Your the one challenging my statement, support your claim.

frobert — November 2, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ohh *sigh* Two bulls butting heads in a china shop..

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — November 2, 2011 at 5:32 a.m

Always a good idea to bring forward stuff that quickly disappears from the C's front page.

Did you notice that Dave dropped out of the conversation to post only on his own FB page? Like Bob L., now he can delete comments he doesn't like and gets out of the limelight at the same time.

mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 8:17 a.m

I find it odd that Josephine has NOT responded to the C on her behalf and that DM has strongly defended her to the point of now refusing to comment any further. Of course that may mean that he no longer has the ability to defend her anymore and doesn't want to put his foot farther into his mouth. I mean, really, he only spent $95K on this PAC, chicken feed for this guy.

hawkeye — November 2, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 2, 2011 at 9:04 a.m.

No, I am not "challenging " your statement; I am asking for documentation of what informs your thinking.

frobert — November 2, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.

Sagan 101. Your claims; support them. Do a review of the literature rather than pull one talking point to hang your case on.

In fact, start over; tell us again what the point is you are trying to prove.

mr_basil_seal — November 2, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nancy Pelosi believes that a Boeing Plant in South Carolina should be shut down because it’s Non-Union.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/index/display/avi-wire-news-display/1532352273.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnpeBT...

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — November 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.

Gee, it almost sounds like you're describing a librarian.

Perhaps a public school librarian.

kn_dalai — November 2, 2011 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — November 2, 2011 at 10:09 a.m

**;]**

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well THAT didn't work so well was suppose to be a wink and a BIG smile to your comment @ 10:09

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh and by the way kn_dalai they call themselves Media Specialist now.

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:19 a.m.

Ah! I see we're on the same page.

kn_dalai — November 2, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- First I'll address your unstated concern, that in addition to the campaign I've extended my service$ to Dave and Joe. If they hire me it will be quick and heads will roll!

Keeping silent on this while playing the victim card doesn't make sense if they can validate the CASA claim. Staying silent for a few days, allow your critics to hang themselves, then come forth with proof of claim is good political strategy imo. That ain't happening.

With the exception of the anti-light rail/CRC/ crowd, I don't think too many will support this lack of info. Matters such as this speak to integrity and honesty. Joe seems to be a one issue candidate who is bringing "blightrail" to our front door!

Given the close working/personal relationship between the two, and the collusion to keep silent, I hope all $$$ are being accounted for and proper transparency takes place, both at election time and April 18 2011.

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


meant April 2012!

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, didn't she move here from Ca like Madore did?

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I mean she only put three qualifying factors for the position. One could be a lie, one other being a Mother, and the other a cop. In Guam?? Does anyone have any background for Joe in regards to being a police detective? Curious.

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No disrespect for Jimmy Page meant but...has he morphed into the late Bea Arthur?

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe I should run against her. I'm a dad, I can lie and/or not address criticisms, and in times past for x-tra $$$ I've worked as a bouncer! More than qualified!

If only the presidency wasn't so important.......

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What weighs 1,800 pounds and is worth 7 million dollars?

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/944702/18/7M-pot-operation-busted-in-Wisconsin-

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***"So when he does, now he's a puppet master and is considered a threat???"***

you've gotten it exactly, GO.

most of what i see in knee-jerk posts is character-attacking talking points. i can find the same exact words in political ads...this is thoughtfully considering the choices?

alinsky's book must be a new best-seller in some circles.

DeeLittle — November 2, 2011 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm having a hard time getting excited by the latest David Madore uproar - whether someone served as a CASA volunteer or not pales in comparison to the claims he made in response to the article about the gavel down flyer about 2 weeks ago. (I tried posting a link to that article, but for some reason The Columbian's server doesn't allow this.) Anyhow, from that post --

"I commissioned forensic accountant Tiffany Couch to evaluate the public records of the CRC. The CRC was unable to provide financial statements or account for much of the cash. In violation of the Public Information Act, the CRC has not provided many of the basic public records requested in a timely manner, and in some cases, not at all. The largest CRC contractor filed a law suit against her staff for asking for pubic records from the department of transportation. In spite of the missing records, Tiffany Couch has accumulated enough evidence that indicate that we are likely dealing with organized crime. Her work is continuing and nearing completion and more news will soon be released that I am not free to share yet."

There are allegations here of impropriety on the part of a quasi-official organization (the CRC) and on the part of their largest subcontractor, and (to me) most interesting - likely organized crime involvement. (Which to me strongly implies illegal activity.) My question to The Columbian is why they focus on "small potatoes" and ignore the more serious claims?

If you want to review his entire remarks, go to our forum for 2 weeks ago and scroll about halfway down - Goldie's link still works. David Madore was in fine form that day - and I would like to know if there's any truth to his claims.

roger — November 2, 2011 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, The third ring of the circus just arrived;

WASHINGTON (AP) - A third former employee considered filing a workplace complaint against Herman Cain over what she considered aggressive and unwanted behavior when she and Cain, now a Republican presidential candidate, worked together during the late 1990s, the woman told The Associated Press on Wednesday. She said the behavior included a private invitation to his corporate apartment.

The woman said he made sexually suggestive remarks or gestures about the same time that two co-workers had settled separate harassment complaints against Cain, who was then the head of the National Restaurant Association.

She did not file a formal complaint because she began having fewer interactions with Cain, she said. Afterward, she learned that a co-worker - one of the two women whose accusations have rocked Cain's campaign this week - had already done so. She said she would have had to file if they hadn't.

hawkeye — November 2, 2011 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm skeptical on this Cain thing. There's a chance the sexual harrassment stuff is way overblown. Call me a pig, but I really don't have a problem with a single guy getting friendly with a single woman, after all, how do you start a relationship otherwise? If he followed common sense and didn't push it into unknown territory-big whoop. If you don't know if a joke or comment will offend a woman or not, then don't go there. In my dealings with people, mostly men, I NEVER say the first cuss word, and I NEVER use one I haven't heard that person say before. 25 years in this business, never had a problem.

What offends one woman might make another laugh her head off. What are ya' gonna do? If you know her well enough, you'll know what goes and what doesn't. Seems these things have a tendency to end up about $$$.

But, as far as I'm concerned, Cain has handled this poorly. The media are sharks if they smell blood in the water, and he's hemmoraging big-time.

mrd — November 2, 2011 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — November 2, 2011 at 3:40 p.m.

"I really don't have a problem with a single guy getting friendly with a single woman"

Cain has been married to the same woman since 1968.
One woman may be a "false allegation" but when you get to three, that's a pattern.

frobert — November 2, 2011 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

you mentioned a news article that was not getting much attention and I think I have another one for you.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20111102/ap_on_re_us/us_militia_plot_georgia

Reading this is unbelievable. Sounds like they read 1 book and saw 2 movies ( Bucket List and The Expendables )

Huhhhh? Whadda ya say?

pdxtech91 — November 2, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, Hawkeye, mrd, and frobert..

My take on this whole Cain issue is that ..
IMO most women take comments way too serious, the wrong way cause it's been beaten in their heads from school days to media that no matter how or what a man says is wrong. Too much touchy feely crap.

Last I read one of the females said he invited her to his apartment. I was like...yeah so you were invited there doesn't mean you were invited for a sexual encounter. Plus if she was, she holds the power to say No.

Yeah he was and is a married man..did that stop Bill Clinton doing what he did? Ummm No..did it stop him from becoming president....umm No Does that stop any man that strays...ummm No

If this is all true about Cain, he is IMO a dog just like Clinton and all the rest...a dog is dog no matter how you dress it or how much money is in it's pocket.

ELISI — November 2, 2011 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yesterday, someone brought up about first hearing of David Madore. I vaguely remember when US Digital opened it's door but David's first public battle with local government was a few years ago when he say that his employees were coming in late and it was always because of the traffic on Mill Plain Blvd (from Walmart all the way east to 162nd Ave).

As an engineer he noticed that much of the congestion was being caused by the ill-timed traffic lights. David asked if he could have access to a few traffic lights in the county to see if he could develop better hardware and system to coordinate the traffic lights.

The Sr Traffic Engineer at the time had a fit. You would have thought some "solemn rite" was to be broken. Every excuse in the imaginable was used to say how this could never happen. ( At the time, much of what is around 192nd Ave could have been used, there was nothing out there.)

I know that that traffic (manager) engineer retired soon after that episode. And Mill Plain is still a mess.

It was all being played out in The Columbian. It started in one Sunday edition and then followed by a series of articles as the feud heated up.

Anyway that might be part, of the start, of the conflict between David and local politicians. Maybe?

pdxtech91 — November 2, 2011 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Make that "...when he **SAID** that his employees were coming in late..."

I gotta stop with these spell check errors.

pdxtech91 — November 2, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91 — November 2, 2011 at 4:40 p.m

I remember reading something about that as well. I remember thinking, why don't you just tell your people to leave home a little earlier? Oh yea, that would make too much sense, silly me.

hawkeye — November 2, 2011 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91 @ 4:11...and attended way too many 3 dollar movies!

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"And Mill Plain is still a mess." - pdxtech91.

It's also bad on 4th Plain, 162nd/164th and other major streets. I should be able to be stopped at a light, get a green light and drive the speed limit to the next light, and have it change to green shortly before I get there. This sequencing should proceed the length of a major roadway. And it is possible - Phoenix AZ, where the streets are much more crowded, manages to do this.

Another problem (to me) is the unpredictability of the left turn light. At many intersections it'll change from before the oncoming traffic to after - no rhyme or reason to this. It's not a big problem, but is an irritant - and the traffic safety managers ought to be removing said irritants, not creating them.

roger — November 2, 2011 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We now have 3 complaints against Cain, all from the late '90s when he was head of the National Restaurant Association. And from what I've read the latest one says she would have reported him except she knew one of the earlier ones already had. That's not an excuse that holds; sexual harassment is usually "he said, she said" and most training I've seen emphasizes that the more evidence the better. If she had said she didn't join the complaint back then because she feared for her job in retribution - that I could buy.

As frobert notes, this is a pattern. And the pattern ought to carry over to other organizations that he led. So where are the complaints? It's still early, but I really expect there should be more coming forward quite soon - when the dominoes start falling...when SMA McKinney was accused, several more followed in quick succession and were from different assignments he'd held.

You can claim all day that the settlements were to be kept private - inside the workplace there are no secrets. The ladies involved would have told others why they were leaving shortly after making the complaint. But everything has been quiet for the past 10 years.

My money is that Perry's campaign is the one that dug deep enough for this info. I wonder how much they paid?

I'm against Cain because no way can I afford 9-9-9; if this whole incident causes him to lose the nomination I certainly won't cry! But I'll still want the evidence that tanks his campaign to stick when thrown against the wall. And I'm not sure we're there yet.

roger — November 2, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In a Fox News interview on Wednesday afternoon, Block had said he was "absolutely" accusing Perry's campaign of leaking the story to Politico, and said "the actions of the Perry campaign are despicable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/herman-cain-rick-perry-mark-block_n_1072943.html

nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal



kn_dalai — November 3, 2011 at 6:17 a.m

Hmm strange that Eisenhower, Kennedy, or Clinton didn't make the list..

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91 — November 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.

Hmmmm, wonder why frobert didn't use this in his 'proof'......

Oh, wait. It is that selectivity issue......

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 7:53 a.m.

Now on your third day of this issue and you have yet to provide anything that refutes my statements. I would say it is time to "put up or shut up"

frobert — November 3, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Rick Perry, God and Me: When I Got the Call**
Katha Pollitt

God called me a couple of months ago and told me to run for president. It was late at night, and he had this weird voice. It sounded like he’d been drinking, so I hung up on him.

. . . .

The next time God called, I reminded him that I wasn’t even a Republican. He said that was the whole idea. Even Republicans don’t like Republicans—look how dissatisfied they are with the 127 candidates they already have. I would be a fresh face. He would arrange for me to have a conversion experience, where I would renounce “feminism and all that” and find Jesus. He thought my friends at The Nation would understand. I said I didn’t think so—they’re still mad at Christopher Hitchens for supporting the Iraq War. And anyway, why was it my job to find Jesus? It was really up to him to keep track of Jesus’ whereabouts. I thought I might have gone too far, but God just chuckled and said he liked my emphasis on parental responsibility: I was already beginning to sound like a Republican.

* * *

We talked again a few days later. He was still excited about the conversion idea. Christians love it when a sinner reforms, he told me—the lost sheep, the prodigal son, gays and lesbians marrying each other. I’m Jewish, I reminded him.

http://www.thenation.com/article/164350/rick-perry-god-and-me-when-i-got-call

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A comprehensive study released on Thursday found that 280 of the biggest publicly traded American companies faced federal income tax bills equal to 18.5 percent of their profits during the last three years — little more than half the official corporate rate of 35 percent and lower than their competitors in many industrialized countries.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Biggest-Public-Firms-Paid-nytimes-969088864.html?x=0&.v=1

Mr. Buffett, the billionaire investor, has said that the tax code is unfair, allowing him to pay just 17 percent in federal taxes last year, about half the percentage his secretary paid.

I like this guy more every day.

hawkeye — November 3, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — November 3, 2011 at 7:59 a.m.

And that would make it day four for you to have brought any support for your claims.....

Not to mention the several times previous where you couldn't or wouldn't.....

In fact, I provided evidence that shows up your faulty thinking and you haven't responded about those; so perhaps the 'manning up' is in your court.

You, once again, are hanging a huge claim on the scantlings of a few very selected facts; it your case had any merit, you'd be able to support it through a more complete analysis.

Perhaps you could give us a list of R's who were prominent, with annotations of their effectiveness and lasting effects.

And, since you were so kind as to name a few D who at one point may have opposed CR, you could do the same for the R's who did the same.

And maybe list those who changed their party based on their CR beliefs.

Heck, even a short bibliography of your sources would be a nice idea.

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:01 a.m.

Sigh...

Until my statements are refuted, they stand. Your trying to imply they are somehow incorrect and not bringing anything to the table, just confirms the weakness of your position. This is the last time I will post on the subject.

frobert — November 3, 2011 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Until my statements are refuted, they stand.*

UNSUPPOERTED BY ANY FACTS>>>>>

So, basically, some unfounded opinion that you have made a conscious choice to, not only not support, but also to fight the basic simple request for data that would support your claim.

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Report: Poverty hits record level**

The number of Americans below poverty level has hit a new record, making up about 20.5 million people, The Associated Press reports.

Defined as individuals living at 50 percent or less of the official poverty level, 6.7 percent of the U.S. population — or one in 15 people — are considered to be the poorest of the poor. That’s the highest in the 35 years since the Census Bureau has tracked those figures, the wire said. Previous highs were in 2009 and 1993, when the poorest of the poor made up just more than 6 percent of the U.S. population.

Neighborhoods in which at least 4 in 10 people are living in poverty have stretched over broader areas and have increased in suburbs twice as fast as in cities, according to the AP.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67508.html

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Concealed Camera Day in Wisconsin Capitol**

By Matthew Rothschild

Today is Concealed Camera Day at the Wisconsin capitol, a day where many protesters plan to challenge the latest craziness to come out of Fitzwalkerstan, the regime of Governor Scott Walker and the Fitzgerald brothers in the legislature.

This is how nutty it’s gotten.

**It’s now legal to carry a concealed weapon in the gallery of the Wisconsin State Assembly, but it’s not legal to carry a concealed camera or smart phone or to carry a sign or to wear a shirt with the First Amendment attached to it.**

The Republicans who control the State Assembly have been ordering the capitol police to haul out protesters who’ve been silently and peacefully filming or wearing signs.

http://www.progressive.org/concealed_camera_day_wi_protests.html

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:34 a.m

That's just unbelievable. Wish I was there, I'm guessing I'd be arrested too.

hawkeye — November 3, 2011 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 8:34 a.m.

Any respectable source on that?

frobert — November 3, 2011 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, we could say 'google it' like it is oft stated here.

Or, we could ignore the request like it is oft done here.

Or we could slip on the clogs and do the work that seems too hard so oft:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-first-day-of-wisconsins-new-concealed-carry-law-20111101,0,3993508.story

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_44b6ca48-498a-11e0-8a55-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.dane101.com/current/2011/03/08/wisconsin_assembly_and_senate_ban_recording_devices

See, not so hard. And I made coffee, cooked oatmeal, and petted the dog......

See, not so hard. I have no idea why you've made the conscious choice to do #2 ( ignore the request ) so much...

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Who knows, the "shadow knows." But there again, I'm not the shadow.
Allen — November 3, 2011 at 9:22 a.m*

Oh my gosh Allen I haven't heard that in years! My brothers used to drive me nuts saying that! LOL

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Bill Moyers: "Our Politicians Are Money Launderers in the Trafficking of Power and Policy"**

So if belief in the “the dogma of democracy” seems only skin deep, there are reasons for it. During the prairie revolt that swept the Great Plains a century after the Constitution was ratified, the populist orator Mary Elizabeth Lease exclaimed: “Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules.”

That was 1890. Those agrarian populists boiled over with anger that corporations, banks, and government were ganging up to deprive every day people of their livelihood.

She should see us now.

John Boehner calls on the bankers, holds out his cup, and offers them total obeisance from the House majority if only they fill it.

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. GOP once again means Guardians of Privilege.

Barack Obama criticizes bankers as “fat cats”, then invites them to dine at a pricey New York restaurant where the tasting menu runs to $195 a person.

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. The President has raised more money from banks, hedge funds, and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Inch by inch he has conceded ground to them while espousing populist rhetoric that his very actions betray.

Let’s name this for what it is: hypocrisy made worse, the further perversion of democracy.
Democratic deviancy defined further downward. Our politicians are little more than money launderers in the trafficking of power and policy – fewer than six degrees of separation from the spirit and tactics of Tony Soprano.

http://www.truth-out.org/how-did-happen/1320278111

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — November 3, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.

Lew and Bob and Ray claimed the same thing about me......

The only time I've really seen a troll outed was a while ago on some climate change sites where a couple had posted on many places with the same (copy / pasted often) talking points- some used the same names, some didn't; but there wasn't any real link for the paid part.

But, with the likes of the Lew and Bob and Ray shows, it doesn't take much to ferret out where their sources are.

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This is one reason we have the right wingers whinging on about how the #occupy is, as T. Sowell in a namecalling snit without any proof claims ( http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/nov/01/sowell-facts-matter-little-to-protesting-mobs ), a bunch of "hooligans"...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/occupywallstreet/2011/10/201110317294664881.html

mr_basil_seal — November 3, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm glad gender bias and racism has fallen by the wayside...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/elizabeth-warren-heckler_n_1073755.html

nailingit — November 3, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 2, 2011 at 8:53 p.m. Now it sounds like those liberals didn't do it, another GOPer did Then why did they blame the liberals? Hard to believe they are destroying themselves.

When is the last time you have heard any politician blame themselves for anything? No one eats their own like the GOP. Their seasonal feeding time would alarm even the most conservative of PETA babes. Remember this?

In the South Carolina primary, McCain's momentum was halted by a strongly negative Bush campaign. Although the Bush campaign said it was not behind any attacks (more on this below), locals who supported Bush reportedly handed out fliers and made telephone calls to prospective voters suggesting among other things, that McCain was a "Manchurian candidate" and that he had fathered a child out of wedlock with a black New York-based prostitute (an incorrect reference to a child he and his wife had adopted from Bangladesh). McCain won primaries in Michigan, his home state of Arizona, and a handful of Northeastern states, but faced difficulty in appealing to conservative Republican primary voters in spite of demonstrated support from Democrats and independents. Bush's victories in states like California and New York as well as conservative southern states gained him the nomination long before the Republican Convention.

to be continued...

nailingit — November 3, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...

Allegations were made that Karl Rove was responsible for a South Carolina push poll that used racist innuendo intended to undermine support for McCain: "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?"[2] McCain campaign manager Richard Davis said he "had no idea who had made those calls, who paid for them, or how many were made", but in the 2004 film "Bush's Brain" John Weaver, political director for McCain's 2000 campaign bid, stated "I believe I know where that decision was made; it was at the top of the Bush campaign." Rove has continually denied any such involvement. The existence of such a poll is disputed since no recording of the poll has ever been documented (about 20% of robocalls are usually recorded by answering machines). The only person who claimed to hear about the push poll was a teenager who asked John McCain about it at a townhall meeting. The teenager may have confused a pushpoll with an email making the same allegation which was circulated by a Bob Jones University professor who had no affiliation with the Bush campaign.
Other candidates included social conservative activist Gary Bauer, businessman Steve Forbes, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, former Ambassador Alan Keyes, former Tennessee Governor Lamar Alexander, former Red Cross director and cabinet member Elizabeth Dole, Ohio Congressman John Kasich, and former Vice President Dan Quayle. Bauer and Hatch campaigned on a traditional Republican platform of opposition to legalized abortion and reductions in U.S. taxes. Keyes had a far more conservative platform, calling for the elimination of all federal taxes except tariffs. Keyes also called for a return to a ban on homosexuals in the military, while most GOP candidates supported the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Keyes continued to participate in the campaign for nearly all the primaries and continued to appear in the debates with frontrunners McCain and Bush. As in 1996, Forbes campaigned on making the federal income tax non-graduated, an idea he called the flat tax, although he increased his focus on social conservatives in 2000. Although Forbes came a close second to Bush in the Iowa caucuses and tied with him in the Alaska caucuses, none of these other candidates won a primary. [Wikipedia]

Sound familiar? Tea Party something new? Naw. Just wrapped up different this national election.

nailingit — November 3, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Hmm strange that Eisenhower, Kennedy, or Clinton didn't make the list. ELISI**

it IS strange, ain't it?

kennedy's my all-time choice. greatest president since WWII.

anybody doubts that, just read his inauguration speech, and google "cuban missle crisis".

DeeLittle — November 3, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — November 3, 2011 at 1:33 p.m

It's a tossup for me between Eisenhower and Kennedy

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 1:48 p.m

I'm with you, EL.

hawkeye — November 3, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI,

I don't know what CBS and Vanity Fair were trying to prove by that poll, but it's gotta be one of the more idiotic polls that I have seen. (Chose among the 4 selections **WE** offer)?.
Besides that GRAPH is not keeping up with the poll which is still active. The last I checked:

Ronald Reagan
35%
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
44%
Thomas Jefferson
14%
Harry Truman
5%
William Henry Harrison
2%

Elisi, I am not accusing you of anything just that, for some reason, CBS/VF just had a way of screwing up a perfectly good question.

pdxtech91 — November 3, 2011 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pdxtech91,

I know and it's still showing the same %'s. Which don't jive with the graph.
The graph on the left show Reagan far more favored than Roosevelt.

Screwed up? Oh yeah I have to agree. Plus ask why throw Harrison and Jefferson in the mix? Makes no sense.

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_d @ 6:17...I find your poll interesting...and the source as well! I never figured you for a "metro" type of guy!

I have two guys in a cocktail lounge in Michigan who think the In-and-Out list is "very cheeky." I have a soccer mom in Des Moines whose four-year old slipped the February issue into her shopping cart while she was in the checkout line at Walmart. I have half the Rotary Club in Geneva, Illinois. I have a young woman in the Bloomberg administration who circles my editor's letter references to the smoking ban with a yellow highlighter. And, oh yes, my mother reads it...most of the time." [Gawker]

Let's play...A Negative and B positive. What kind of bloodlines are these to choose from?

Reagan A- He wouldn't have a clue about fixing the economy, not after seeing how his policies have failed so miserably over the years. B-Great hair. Roosevelt- A He needs a new wardrobe. B-Great guy at a time when we need a "New Deal". Thomas Jefferson A- Bad with his personal finances and no reason to believe he could fix anything. B- Great real estate acumen. Harry Truman A- He looks too much like Truman Capote. B- Eleanor would be considered hip and with. William Henry Harrison A- The combination of being nicknamed "Granny Harrison", would present poor political optics as he would have to learn to drive a car. B- He was a hard cider drinker.

nailingit — November 3, 2011 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WHOOP, there it is!!!!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/no...

goldenoldie — November 3, 2011 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Folks!!! Anybody notice the little discussion Lew Waters is having with Lou Brancaccio in the updated article regarding Josephine Wentzel??? He's also got another one tagging on his comments...someone with a cute little sailor's hat...someone who has vindictiveness and writes almost the exact same vile comments to Lew as he did anybody who supported David Madore's efforts.

Maybe...possibly....our own little kitty cat who is no longer in the forum???

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/no...

Maybe...

goldenoldie — November 3, 2011 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I remember the David Madore stop light thing to which Allen refers and pdxtech posted earlier. All roads lead to US Digital, I guess.

I also remember that Madore said he was against tolls because he did not want his friends and relatives to have to pay to come visit him.

goldie: I read the FB jabs about Josephine's CASA credentials. I think she was holding out to turn the tables on the paper. The focus is no longer on her, but laser-sharp on The Columbian. The finger pointing never ends.......

I will be glad when this election is over.

manthou — November 3, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen another question to ask (and I have asked this a lot lately)
why can't the paper wait until they get all the facts before
jumping on a story?
I understand the need to be first to report, but come on, when it comes to someone career, they could take a step back like was done with Jacks...

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: May I offer a reply while Allen works on his?

The paper is playing a gotcha game. While I appreciate holding candidates accountable for representing themselves factually, there seemed to be an abuse of journalistic power here. I think it is in poor form to continue the argument online, as Brancaccio has. There should be no need for it and it appears gloating and taunting. Leaves me with an icky aftertaste, not that they give a rip.

Who said, "Don't argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel?"

The Columbian is proving that point right now.

manthou — November 3, 2011 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, I so agree.

ELISI — November 3, 2011 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Unless obama self destructs, which, unfortunately, I doubt will happen, he is almost a shoo-in for 2012. His campaign machine is too strong and unethical to lose. As far as presidents go, I liked Ike. I did not like Kennedy. His father pretty much bought the presidency for him and even so, Nixon almost beat him. During his short time in office, he proved he wasn't qualified and damn near got us into a nuclear war. There is nothing great about any person who has that as a claim to fame. And Clinton was an embarrassing embecile.

cranky — November 3, 2011 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Poly-tics+Dancing=Truth Telling Gesticulations. I gave myself a good talking to today and was left confused. Do condominiums allow for future growth? If people had the dog-like ability to clean themselves, would the human race become extinct? Why does blurting out a question equate to getting something off ones chest? It's those awkward moments that can lend themselves to laughter. I'll stop blurting now. Just sharing some RAndomThoughtS on a slow night in the basement.

~A tortured soul screams silently at my doorstep, tapping ever so lightly at my frontal lobe.~ .

nailingit — November 3, 2011 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit @ 10:29 and 10:57: I appreciate your welcome injection of levity into the discussion last night! You just can't make these things up (face-in-tumor). Is it "life imitates (A)art?" Too funny. Not so funny for the patient, however.

manthou — November 4, 2011 at 5:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen # 7PM yesterday: You pegged it when you wrote:

"And all the old boys clubs, all across their respective areas, are getting scared, and will do everything they can to keep us taxpayers arguing against each other."

The good ol' boyz were shaken mightily from their throne when Barack Obama assumed the presidency. That started the fall of entitlement dominos, in my opinion. I think this shake up spawned the Tea Party movement which spawned the Occupy Wall Street movement.

I hate to say it, but Brancaccio was on to something with his "Squeeze" movement. The little guys need to join forces and find common ground, rather than picking at each other's differences. Power to the people, but only if we can stop each other from self-destruction, which draws attention away from the masters of the universe and their abuse of power.

manthou — November 4, 2011 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""I will be glad when this election is over."""

Manthou...you and me BOTH!!! Amazing how election time brings out the worst in people, huh! So easily the picture is painted as to who are the problematic instigators are and who the whistle blowers might be.

You know what really peeves me??? The fact that just about every ballot measure we are seeing this election time is a form of blackmail or deceptive politics. If you vote yes for C-Tran, we can keep the same lame product we provide. If you vote no, let's cut out buses to Portland so the false sense of need for light rail can blossom and we can also leave those who need additional help through C-Van are screwed.

If you vote yes for I-1183, This measure would close state liquor stores and sell their assets; license private parties to sell and distribute spirits; set license fees
based on sales; regulate licensees; and change regulation of wine distribution.

Did they fail to mention there will be more sting operations set in place to catch stores who sell to minors? Did they fail to mention there will be the potential for more DWI drivers with more accessibility to the hard liquor? Did they fail to mention this puts up the higher potential for shoplifting, accidents, arrests, more crowding at the jails??? If the stores are allowed to sell 7 days a week till midnight. Aren't our police and fire protection already on the brink of disaster??? Isn't Gregoire already making cuts to just about everything important to the function of every city???

It seems to me there's going to be more government intervention than there is with licensed contracts in the current system yet the proponents are not telling the entire truth in the matter...blackmail for more taxation for regulation later on down the road, possibly?

I-1125, tolls. Vote yes, This measure would prohibit the use of motor vehicle fund revenue and vehicle toll revenue for non-transportation purposes, and require that road and bridge tolls be set by the legislature and be project-specific.

Vote No and the costs of tolling would be "anything goes."

Who's to say our legislature would be fair and honest when it comes to tolls? Remember, all it takes is an Executive Order by our governor to change the rules...and she's done it before!!! If anybody believes she has Washington's best interests at heart...I've got swamp land in the Bayou I'd be willing to sell to ya!

Oh you betcha, I'll be glad when the election is over...NEXT NOVEMBER'S ELECTION!!!

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal


btw, the quotes after I-1183 and I-1125 were taken directly from the 2011 Voter's Pamphlets.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning Whine cellar!

Has anyone seen a commercial on one of the cable channels for a T-shirt made 3 inches longer than the average T-shirt?
I am not kidding about this...I saw it last night as I was flipping through the channels.

The T-shirt is made 3 inches longer for guys with plumbers b...!

I laughed so hard I had tears rolling down my face. Then I realized, how sad that is..

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh the good old boy club, sure shows their colors if folks don't play by their rules?? The C rushes at what they select to be hand feeding of the public, news it is not! Ya want to talk bullying?? Then they wonder where the kids get this??

karma — November 4, 2011 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Bulling and scare tactic used? You bet they do!

Look at the commercial of the mom that lost her young son..

Yes it is horrific to lose a young child one I can't even imagine,
but, what this mom says at the end of the commercial is in question.
She says that alcohol would be sold at convenience stores. Then says her son was killed by a man who bought his last drink at a convenience store.

I have lived in this state for 33 yrs, not once during that time have I ever seen alcohol or wine sold at a convenience store.
Now if the man who killed her son bought his last drink at a convenience store it would have had to been beer.

Do I call this commercial misleading? YES do I call this ad bulling? YES do I call this ad a scare tactic? YES

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I need a vacation! Somewhere where I don't have to even think about the politics of the region, somewhere where I can just sit and enjoy my time, somewhere that nobody would judge me for my opinion...

Okay...this made me laugh.

Anybody ever actually read the CAPTCHA letters they have to fill in??? No joke...mine has the word "meerdi" in it. Possibly encryption of some sort??? Maybe for something other than a more secure site???

Still, it's awfully close to a curse word in several languages referring to ...ahem...bowel movements??? And we can't even use that type of language on here!!! Too funny.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ya know that story brings to mind how many other folks go by another name so they can do the job they do now without folks tracking to whom they are married to??

Goldenoldie, some nice warmer island in the pacific would be nice about now? ; ) I fear the heat here is about to hit the fan, but I'm not holding my breath.
Don't pay attention to the words behind the recaptcha, they are there to catch the spammers and they are hitting a lot of places.

karma — November 4, 2011 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Good mornin' Karma. I was thinking the same thing about an island in the Pacific...a BIG island I have already been fortunate to visit in the past. I just don't care to fly. Maybe going through all my photos and videos, the brochures...all that will help my need to escape the rat race for at least a couple of hours.

Regarding CAPTCHA...it just struck me funny the word I had to type in this morning. I know it's there for a good reason.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Have you noticed also the symbols that none of our keyboards make and oh yes, one I got this morning where the word was upside down.

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, maybe the designers of CAPTCHA expect you to stand on your head and key in the word. (yes, I'm being silly).

.

Allen...you should've asked yesterday. I would have had a loaf for ya! Missed it by thaaaaat much!

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL Golden!

Well I guess I best get going, tons of errands to run today..

Any good ideas for dinner tonight? Anyone??

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden,
I agree with you 100%, time for a vacation.. Mine would be to take a drive to one of our nations parks.. Like the grand canyon.. I call it a road trip.. Take 97 all the way down to cali and Nevada and all the to the bi hole in the ground.. When you get there you can yell at the top of your voice get rid of all the angst and then roll over to the coast and take the 101 back all the way to seaside.. Thats a road trip.. Listen to FM so you don't have to hear talk radio...

ESLI, as for din din tonite.. how about fish.. and some aspargas and maybe little red potatoes.. YUMMY>> Have a great weekend all..

Looks like the Dawgs are going to get whooped on by the Quakers..

vanwadreamer — November 4, 2011 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 9:56 a.m

I made a meatloaf yesterday so we are having leftovers. Tomorrow, the wife is making chicken pot pie, I can taste it already..... yum.

my cap= call tsnwas

hawkeye — November 4, 2011 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We were thinking fish tonight as well...but the meatloaf idea sounds REALLY good. My weakness is always potatoes so it looks like Allen wins.

So Allen...

What time is dinner??? I'll bring the loaf of bread, lol.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


good morning, group.

anybody else notice the cia story? and a little earlier, big sis slipping into the news stream with her 'we're going to monitor twitter and facebook accounts for social unrest'...and a little earlier still her little announcement that's they're monitoring emails for the same thing?

welcome to obama's 'change'....the 'hope' part is for november.

DeeLittle — November 4, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dang Allen, if you are passing out invites I'll bake ya some bread. Beat friday's night hamburgers on the grill!

Goldenoldie, my island trip is to sit in the greenhouse with ice tea, come on over......no flying!!

karma — November 4, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I like the Ice bit Karma, we should have a Occupy karma party.. Bring your favorite ICE and beverage..LOL

vanwadreamer — November 4, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey DeeLittle, how are you today??? I hope all is well with the new homeowner!!! I saw the article about the CIA but didn't react to it, partly because about a year or so ago, the idea of the CIA monitoring Facebook and Twitter was a conspiracy theory floating around. Funny how those old theories are surfacing and are now considered fact, huh!

Oooh, Karma...one of these days I'll have to take you up on that!

Vanwadreamer, sounds great!!! All those in favor of Occupy Karma, say Oye!!! My favorite ICE??? Beverage yes, but we'll leave the ICE where it can best be served. I demand we have a sit in...in the greenhouse!!!

keep smilin'

goldenoldie — November 4, 2011 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well all who suggested dinner tonight thanks...hubby wants my homemade Thai fried rice, so that is what he will get.
Said he'd pick up some fried shrimp on the way home to go with, if I make the rice.

So now that, that's out of the way...anyone know of a recipe for making dog cookies for dogs?

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — November 4, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.

Now now, Dee, what makes you think Obama has anything to do with that? I didn't see the article but the CIA has been looking at different web sites for years before Obama was elected. Also, the CIA does a lot of different things without the knowledge of the President, ever heard of plausible deny-ability? If I was the head of the CIA, I'd be looking everywhere too.

hawkeye — November 4, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*[Republicans Flip On Government Job Creation For Defense] Pentagon accounts are coming down, and Republicans who repeatedly reject the idea that an infusion of federal dollars can produce new jobs now say the government should keep billions flowing to the makers of guns, tanks, aircraft and ships for the sake of sparing jobs in home districts and states. It's the newest of several arguments against reducing Pentagon budgets.

*The contradiction undercuts the GOP's anti-government spending mantra that proved successful for the party in 2010 congressional races in which Republicans reclaimed the House – a pitch sure to be repeated by candidates in 2012 contests.

*The Pentagon is facing reductions of nearly half a trillion dollars, stemming in large part from the limits set in the debt accord reached this summer between Obama and congressional Republicans.

*http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/04/republicans-defense-cuts-job-creation-spending_n_1076010.html

nailingit — November 4, 2011 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @November 4, 2011 at 7:43 a.m.

**THANK YOU**

I was wondering who else noticed the errors in that add.
As tragic as it sounds, If her son lived and died in Washington, it's whole argument about Prop-I-1138 is moot.

The person bought beer or wine in a convenience store and if this prop fails or passes, the person will still be able to purchase his spirit of choice.

And yes...I did see the add for the plumber's t-shirt and LOL, what a commercial. (but I think I should look into buying some of these shirts)

pdxtech91 — November 4, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Vanwadreamer, your ' Occupy karma party' sounds like a load of fun but the yard is wet and no camping here. Maybe this summer we can occupy, I haven't hosted a good gathering since we did the potluck for the Green Gorillas!

karma — November 4, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — November 4, 2011 at 6:49 p.m

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No Allen I haven't purchased one of those T-shirt

Oh do ever remember Candid Camera..never miss it when it was on.
Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, oh and when Bonanza, Rawhide or Gun Smoke came on, no one best make a sound..if you did we'd get the evil eye from dad.

ELISI — November 4, 2011 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Now now, Dee, what makes you think Obama has anything to do with that?***

let's see.

well, for starters, there's the meeting lockouts of republicians when the dem's had both houses....then there's the health care act which assumes powers the constitution doesn't mention (to be decided by the supremes IF not repealed first)...then there's his justice dept (do i hafta list all of holder's constitution 'issues'?)... his dept of homeland security appointee making plane boarding equal to a sexual assault.... nawww... no reason.

DeeLittle — November 4, 2011 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — November 4, 2011 at 9:06 p.m

Huh? Weren't we talking about the CIA and the internet? Talk about jumping to conclusions. I'll bet that just because you are paying more for gas this week, you are going to blame it all on the tsunami in Japan.

hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting column by Lou B. today. He's using his classroom Q&A; format (again) to discuss freedom of speech, and people who elect to not talk to the press. He draws a comparison with those who plead the 5th in court, and concludes that people naturally believe they're guilty of something.

So far, he's being killed in the remarks. General consensus is that his comparisons are apples and oranges, and that The Columbian's handling of the Wetzel CASA issue was, at best, lacking in journalistic integrity.

HOWEVER, in yesterday's article explaining the mix up, opinions tended to favor the position that Wetzel failing to respond to The Columbian and clear the assumed name business up places the fault back with her.

I am curious about the controversy over whether Wetzel was a CASA volunteer - how did that come up? Is The Columbian engaged in a vendetta against anything/anyone tied to Madore?

On the other hand, Madore, Wetzel and others in that group have used this website, run by The Columbian, to push their agenda for quite some time. Does this perhaps put more of an obligation on them to answer questions from the paper's journalists?

roger — November 5, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 5, 2011 at 10:18 a.m

I think the CASA thing came up when Andrea decided to do a story on Wetzel and the mailing that came to everybody in the Vancouver city limits saying that she was a CASA volunteer. When Andrea couldn't find any information on Josephine's volunteer work from anyone at the YWCA, she asked Josephine in an email and called her and got no reply.

I believe that if you are going to run for PUBLIC office or are in PUBLIC office, your life is going to be just that, PUBLIC and as such, you have an obligation to any and every publication to answer questions. If you don't want that, don't run.

hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye,

While I agree with your Public office comment, does this carry the same weight when you believe the newspaper is playing partisan politics and is mounting a campaign to turn voters against you? That's what Madore claims is happening, and I believe that's the reason Wetzel refused to respond to Andrea's questioning. I suppose a comparison could be a liberal politician refusing to speak to anyone from Fox News.

roger — November 5, 2011 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The other Columbian article that's holding my attention is yesterday's on C-Tran fighting back against claims that Prop 1 is based on a faulty (at best) portrayal of their financial position.

Tiffany Couch has posted an extensive response to their critique of her analysis. What she says SOUNDS good, and goes a long way to supporting the claim that C-Tran is playing scare politics with Prop 1 to generate funding for the 4th Plain BRT.

Because of her contract with David Madore to research the CRC, many people are slamming her findings on this issue by saying she's just another one of his stooges. However, she denies that Madore has anything to do with this analysis.

Here's a link to Couch's business website. After reading the testimonials, awards, associations, etc, I'm really questioning whether she would risk throwing this all away by playing "fast and loose" with facts, as her detractors claim.

http://www.acuityforensics.com/

AND I'M STILL WAITING TO HEAR THE EVIDENCE ABOUT ORGANIZED CRIME INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CRC, AS MADORE CLAIMS SHE'S DISCOVERED. (Caps intended for anyone from The Columbian - just in case they read our comments.)

roger — November 5, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No idea about the circumstances that could cause her to lose her license. What I do think is that if she loses her reputation for integrity, she's done. And if she loses her reputation by doing a shoddy analysis, she's also done. So, I'm paying a little more attention to what she says than to the people who are in it for political gain. We're used to dishonesty from them!!

Just got a recorded call from Don Benton wanting me to vote No on Prop 1. I hung up about 10 seconds into the call. Have a real person call if you want me to listen.

roger — November 5, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


as far as any of this accounting goes, I'm skeptical of the whole thing. I find it pretty coincedental Couch came to a conclusion that fit perfectly with Madore's position-again (CRC). I am also skeptical a public agency could "cook books" or whatever to support their agenda, or come to such a different conclusion. How can Couch go thru a budgeting process that took a lot of time to assemble so quickly?

assuming Couch has any professional integrity, I have to assume she did a competent job. But for free? On just a whim-Let me risk my professional reputation by "volunteering" my services to the public because I'm just a nice guy? She assumes this liabilty with nothing to gain? My reaction is when something looks too good to be true it usually is. If she has that much free time on her hands, hmmm...

Funny how so called experts-especially the hired gun types-so often come to the same conclusion those hiring them desire. This probably garners fantastic endorsements.

mrd — November 5, 2011 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 1018, 43- "On the other hand, Madore, Wetzel and others in that group have used this website, run by The Columbian, to push their agenda for quite some time. Does this perhaps put more of an obligation on them to answer questions from the paper's journalists?"

"I suppose a comparison could be a liberal politician refusing to speak to anyone from Fox News."

Great look at the argument. I would think that running on a platform of transparency as Wentzel claims to be, would warrant honesty/expediency on Wentzel's part. But you made me see a view I might not have.

"AND I'M STILL WAITING TO HEAR THE EVIDENCE ABOUT ORGANIZED CRIME INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CRC, AS MADORE CLAIMS SHE'S DISCOVERED. (Caps intended for anyone from The Columbian - just in case they read our comments.)" AMEN! Much political as well as accountable hay should be made of this!

I haven't weighed in on this Wentzel/Madore issue much and would like to. Two things.

1. I don't get that the C is bias concerning this contest. I haven't seen a "hit job" on Madore/Wentzel concerning this. Then again I don't read 'C' news everyday. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. Can anyone direct me to a slanted article? I'm not getting this whole "victim" routine. If she had kept silent for the sake of strategy like I suggested in my Nov. 2nd 10:24 remark :))..DM should have kept his mouth shut, and let the anti-CRC crowd do the dirty work and shout down the C "hit job" (which they did), in being so vocal himself, he cheapens his argument, and diminishes Wentzel. It tells me this strategy was not pre-meditated, but done on the fly. Wentzel needs to stand on her own two feet. It must be hard to do when your boss/main contributor contines to glam for the spotlight.

And my other concern speaks to her stated qualifications. I understand this is Vancouver WA and all that, but really, let's take a look at the 3 main qualifying factors as to why we should vote for her.

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MRD, this is a deceptive practice you are recognizing, but I believe the deception lies with the confines of C-Tran and their planning. Whether this was an act of deception or just an oversight remains to be seen. Consider when C-Tran released the 2011-2012 budget vision. Consider when C-Tran released their 20-year vision. Consider the time it took for a community business owner to study the budget, then to acquire a Forensic CPA to oversee the budget plans of the transit company. Was is a politically-motivated act by Madore? Well, if you truly believe the transit company is without fault, of course you'll say yes...but read the numbers. Check the analysis. Check what C-Tran has in their budget plans.

In Black and White, it clearly shows that C-Tran had obviously overestimated the budget vision for 2011 and beyond. Do I blame them? No. Who knew we were going to be hit with the worst economic downturn in decades? I believe the problem lies in the fact that the folks at C-Tran failed to adjust their numbers.

Ms. Couch has clearly shown there is a problem within C-Tran and that voting yes for Prop 1 will only metastasize a problem which needs fixing BEFORE asking the voters to pass a sales tax increase.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good afternoon, Nailingit. I believe the "Hit Job" referred was this article:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/no...

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's the thing about Tiffany Couch: she is NOT an objective reviewer in this case. Her political bias is very clear (just look at the number of times she keeps beating this old nag on the FB side).

Tiffany, if you want me to read your report, you only need to post it once and request my attention once.

She is over-invested in the outcome here, which makes her a biased reporter. And it makes me cautious and suspicious of her report and motivation.

This happens to prosecutors sometimes and she is acting like a prosecutor who has lost objectivity and is crossing a line.

If there is financial fraud, for heaven's sake: take your claims to the Attorney General and let his staff run with it! But making accusations in the court of public opinion is something anyone can do.

All the credentials and experience in the world will not impress me if I can see your political motivation so easily, Ms Couch.

So, I agree with roger: take your evidence, if it is more than your opinion, to the authorities. Someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight should review your concerns. And, when they issue their findings, that will get my full attention.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd @ 12:23: I agree with you.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, you addressed something which I believe you should ask Ms. Couch directly and that has to do with contacting the State Attorney General's Office. She has provided her email in the article which she provided her report. I'm not sure if she's even reading anything in the Whine Cellar, so your words may go unnoticed by her. And Manthou, I had sent an email to her in the past hour and received one promptly. Why not give it a try?

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Confirmation bias** refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs.

------from the Skeptic's Dictionary

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi, goldie: Good idea. Maybe I will.

You know, what she probably wants to make clear is the fact that she thinks C-Tran can run just fine without extra funding IF and only IF they abandon Light Rail and BRT plans.

She wants them, like many others in this community, to do just that.

I think that this is what her report is all about. She wants the voters to think, as she does, that C-Tran is saying they need these funds for basic bus service, when they are really going to stock pile funds for BRT and LR.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, it is my opinion that if C-Tran's analysis would have shown the budget expectations with as well as without voter approval of Proposition 1, this wouldn't be an issue for the voters. What I believe Ms. Couch has done is raise speculation regarding the budget expectations for 2011 and beyond and the inaccuracies which have surfaced.

And good for you for taking the initiative to contact her personally.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And good afternoon to you as well, Manthou.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie: She is claiming that the Columbian will not publish her responses to C-Tran's critique of her original analysis.

Why do you think that is? I would really like some opinions on that.

Thanks in advance. :)

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Really. This argument about truth telling, rather than what the truth might speak to. The big $$$ contributor conservative playing the victim card shouting, "yellow journalism!", rather than having the candidate step up to the plate. Can anyone say...RED HERRING!

--Qualifying factor #1-- "Retired Police Detective". Okay. Some might believe law enforcement experience should be a major factor for a city council person. I get that. But I haven't seen numbers concerning this job. If anyone knows please contribute. I do believe it was enforcing the legal code to the American citizenry/Guamanian community. Standards are much different there. Does anyone know her length of tour/duties/accommodations etc.?

Not doubting anything for a second on this one. More than likely she was a fine detective. Is there more information on this? Educational background?

http://www.pixiq.com/article/constitution-does-not-apply-in-the-u-s-territory-of-guam

--Qualifying factor #2--" Wentzel took the CASA training in 1995 and was a volunteer for about eight months with the program. The YWCA asks that volunteers commit to one to two years of service minimum, but Waddell said that “there are circumstances that sometimes come up with volunteers that do not allow them to continue volunteer service.” "Waddell said the program is in constant need of volunteers willing to commit the three to eight hours a month needed to help those foster children."
"She said she did not know and could not say why Wentzel stopped volunteering with CASA."

Since this is a major factor the candidate expects us to base our vote on, we should take a look. If a person put in the maximum time in this position...that would be 192 hours over a two year period, 96 hours during a year, and someone volunteering the max time over [8] months would be a 64 hour period. By most folks standards, that's a week and a half's work, during an 8 month time span. Max. Good for her. It's more volunteering than I have done in a given year. Having said that, she expects us to base our vote on it. According to YWCA policy , "The YWCA asks that volunteers commit to one to two years of service minimum..."

She should address why she did not fulfill her responsibility. Most likely a good reason, but let's hear it. Having said that...A week and a half of "volunteering" is a major factor in being considered for city council? Also I'm sure a good reason for the complete name change. Marriage, etc. but speak to it. When I think of Wentzel I think of Madore. She should be her own voice...and that segue's into...

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


--Qualifying factor #3-- A mother of five. Need I comment on this? I respect women in the political arena every bit as men. But when volunteering and motherhood are two major factors the candidate expects us to consider, we should take a second look. What if a man ran on these two items...he would be laughed at. I suppose we should judge the offspring for job efficiency? What's up with that?

I may not agree with Bill Turley's politics, but I respect his flier's credentials. From my point of view running on the resume' of volunteerism and having kids doesn't cut it.

Having said that, everyone gets their start in politics at some time. More power to her. She should become her own voice. When I think of her DM comes to mind. Not a great visual!

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit at 4:34 PM: Of Josephine Wentzel, you observed: "She should become her own voice."

After watching her week after week on videos of Vancouver City Council meetings, she and the "Madorers" speak with one voice. Groupthink. And what they say is repeated over and over and over and over ad nauseum.

After a while, ya' just stop listening.

The truth o' meter is blinking red during election season. Citizens should read these flyers and ads with a skeptic's eye. Half-truths. Lies of omission. Misleading references. All are strung high on the flagpole, hoping y'all salute.

Folks running for office hope that the public will buy into the sound bite. They hope they will be impressed with inflated credentials.

And goldie: maybe the Prop 1 proponents are guilty of doing the same thing as Wentzel.

For me, anyone who is connected to David Madore right now is someone whose motives and ability to think independently need to be scrutinized deeply.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

What are the qualifications required for Vancouver City Council, beside living within the city limits? I'm going to take a wild stab and say she's as qualified for this job as most of the candidates for our Presidency are for that position. And beside, she's running as a proxy vote for David Madore. She'll be pro-East side development, pro-192nd Ave Columbia River Bridge, anti-CRC, anti-C-Tran BRT, and whatever other positions Madore tells her to take.

And I'll also repeat what I've said before. These are NOT the neoCon Tea Partyers like Lew Waters, Bob Larimer, et.al. These are the hard Christian Right - adherents of Pat Robertson and his ilk. Maybe you'll recall that back before the facebook split there was a pissing contest between Madore and Editor Lou over who had the biggest cajones - "you call me for an appointment." "No, you call me." I believe it was Pat Campbell who posted a short comment when this was going down calling Madore a religious fanatic. I suspect there was good reason for that.

But, just like Cain, I want to see Madore, Wetzel, and their ilk go down fair and square. The Columbian stooping to smear tactics is wrong.

roger — November 5, 2011 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I am so glad I DON'T live in Vancouver

hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 4:59: Yes, Madore's coven is not your typical Tea Partiers. They are joined together by a deep evangelical Christian faith.

Wentzel works for Madore. Debbie Peterson (a NoTolls regular at council meetings. Once ran against Moeller) now works for Tiffany Couch!

They hire each other. They stand shoulder-to-shoulder as God's soldiers in the fight for truth. Their truth. Everyone else be damned. Literally.

See you in hell, I guess. :)

Creepy.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A couple of lines from the Wiki article on forensic accounting that caught my eye.

"Forensic" means "suitable for use in a court of law", and it is to that standard and potential outcome that forensic accountants generally have to work.

They frequently involve the assessment of accounting systems and accounts presentation—in essence assessing if the numbers reflect reality.

This tells me that Ms. Couch is in fact more than capable of going over the C-Tran books and determining whether the numbers are accurate.

And she's a resident, I presume. Her business is on Officers Row. That's all the stake she needs to get involved.

Time will tell as to whether she's got an ulterior motive.

roger — November 5, 2011 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I noticed that, during our discussion here, the Columbian pulled the C-Tran article out of the banner wheel. You have to dig for it now. :)

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's not an ulterior motive that worries me, roger. Nor is it a question of whether she can express her concerns as a citizen. For me, the question is whether Tiffany Couch, is unbiased.

I don't think she is.

In a court of law, the opposing attorney would definitely bring up her politics in an attempt to impeach her report and testimony.

That's what they do. She is used to it, if she goes to court often.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I see someone's fishing for a little gossip in our Whine Cellar. Oh well, all's fair in love and war, you know. Nailingit, if you're so adamant in wanting to know the truth...just as I'd suggested to Manthou to contact the person that she had questions about, so should you rather than playing the dirt card.

And why is it I"m getting a distinct feeling of religious prejudice to someone who follows their faith and aren't afraid to let others know their beliefs??? I don't hear them telling each and every one of us how wrong we are in what we believe in. Really Manthou, I honestly am surprised that you...the calm and collected one of the Whine Cellar...would even make such a comment as you did at 5:15 pm. Does it really matter if they are Evangelical Christians??? And since when does religious belief determine the viability of a candidate?

This is almost as ridiculous as arguing whether the POTUS is Muslim or if he's Christian. The argument is moot as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""For me, anyone who is connected to David Madore right now is someone whose motives and ability to think independently need to be scrutinized deeply."""

The same goes for anyone who is connected to C-Tran or even Identity Clark County for that matter.

It's called the political game.

..

btw, Manthou...did you send off your email request for further information as you said you were going to? Inquiring minds would like to know.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 5:02 p.m

Yeah, so are we.

frobert — November 5, 2011 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: I admit my guilt: absolutely over the top about making a broad and ignorant generalization about the evangelical Christian ties that bind David Madore and many others in such a bad connotation. You are right. I was wrong.

I should have emphasized how interesting it was that they are working for each other, especially the recent hire of Debbie Petterson, NoTolls charter member, by Tiffany Couch, unbiased forensic accountant.

And you are right about the political gamesmanship. Stakes are high and people are saying just about anything to garner a YES vote. And, I did say that maybe Prop 1 people are guilty of the same.

As for my email. It has been sent. No reply yet. I do not expect one. I know that, if she had information that showed illegal activity, it would be in the hands of law enforcement. This is more about an anti-Prop 1 message.

She did send her information to the Clark County Commissioners and Vancouver City Council. Let's see where that goes.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 2:58- Good Evening! I just made an "emergency run" to office depot. Everybody's really quiet in these places, like a library. It's like their copiers run silently with the latest stealth technology! Honestly I don't see the slant in the article. What I do see is Wentzel choosing to let this brew for political gain. As a community we are pretty much limited to the Columbian as THE newspaper. (By and large I think they do a pretty good job) Wentzel waiting to address this issue because she feels as though she doesn't curry the Columbian's favor is less than honorable. It leaves the voters guessing as to why wouldn't anyone address this immediately. Fine. Don't use the C, but address it through another news media outlet. As a strategy, like I said, on the fly and seeing the positives I understand it. Just rings of typical political insincerity.

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 4:50...The truth o' meter is blinking red during election season. Citizens should read these flyers and ads with a skeptic's eye. Half-truths. Lies of omission. Misleading references. All are strung high on the flagpole, hoping y'all salute.

Words worth repeating!

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit --- It’s called “vetting”.
Vetting is a process of examination and evaluation, generally referring to performing a background check on someone before offering him or her employment, conferring an award, etc. [Wikipedia]
Nailingit November 5, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. --Qualifying factor #1-- "Retired Police Detective". Okay. Some might believe law enforcement experience should be a major factor for a city council person. I get that. But I haven't seen numbers concerning this job. If anyone knows please contribute.

Facebook --- Guam Police page [verify]
Josephine Wentzel Hafa Adai. I am Josephine Funes-Wentzel from Vancouver, WA. I graduated with the 17th Cycle in 1977. Any old guys & gals from that era? LOL

She was born November 20, 1958 so she would have been around 19 in 1977 in Guam.

http://usefulwork.com/cgi-bin/wavoterdb.cgi?svid=WA002473685 [verify]

1958-NOV-20 1998-MAR-26
Birthdate Voter registration

I would like to know what year she "retired". There is a picture of her in uniform on her web page. She looks very young. I don't think her retirement as a police detective is equivalent to Turlay's retirement.

Nailingit November 5, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. --- Is there more information on this? Educational background?
I have looked at her website and other mentions of her candidacy on the web. I can't find any reference to any education. That is one of the first things I check for any candidate but she doesn’t include any mention of a GED or receiving a high school diploma. [Cory Barnes has no mention of any education on his website either.]
Lew Waters wrote on his blog that she was a “teen ‘candy striper’ in Guam during the Vietnam War”. The Vietnam War ended in 1975 when she was around 17.

buckeye71 — November 5, 2011 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 4:59...nailingit,

"What are the qualifications required for Vancouver City Council, beside living within the city limits?"
Minimum qualifications for elected office are, and with good reason, of a low threshold. Part of what makes us a democracy. It doesn't mean that's where we set our bar. My hope is that we start raising it a bit more.

"These are NOT the neoCon Tea Partyers like Lew Waters, Bob Larimer, et.al. These are the hard Christian Right - adherents of Pat Robertson and his ilk."

How so? The Neo-cons are the hard Christian right. To include Robertson and ilk. Bush defined the neo-con movement. I understand DM has a life-sized card board cut out of this idiot in his office. :)) Speaks volumes!

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit November 5, 2011 at 4:22 p.m.
--Qualifying factor #2--" Wentzel took the CASA training in 1995 and was a volunteer for about eight months with the program. ----- Since this is a major factor the candidate expects us to base our vote on, we should take a look.

http://www.electjosephine.com/about-me.html [verify]

As a long time citizen activist and community volunteer, I've used common sense and clear priorities to solve problems. This history includes being a
Court appointed Special Advocate, [8 months in 1995]
an advocate for children with learning disabilities, [dates, location? Was this a formal volunteer job or was she a resource for friends?]
a trauma intervention prevention volunteer, [dates,location? Was this a formal volunteer job or was she a resource for friends? Any training?]
a naval hospital candy striper, [Lew Waters wrote on his blog that she was a “teen ‘candy striper’ in Guam during the Vietnam War”. The Vietnam War ended in 1975 when she was around 17.]
a Red Cross volunteer, [dates, location, training?]
a keynote speaker for immigration, [Some of her original material showed “keynote speaker” as her #1 qualification. Was she a paid lobbyist during this time?]
a homeless shelter volunteer, [dates, location]
a Sunday School Superintendent, [dates, location]
and working with free adoptions in Washington State. [Was this a paid lobbying position?]
As a former police detective I understand the need for fairness and justice for all, individuals and businesses. [I think that’s an admirable quality that most everyone shares. It is universal and has little to do with being a police detective at 19. Do unto others, etc. Golden Rule?]

buckeye71 — November 5, 2011 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Look at us: Saturday night spent yapping about Madore's good soldiers. We are pitiful. So be it. I continue..

Marc Boldt, in an email sent to Tiffany Couch on Friday and posted on her website blog states:

"Tiffiny (sic). this is a very important budget matter between you and CTran. you have stated that this is not public but you have made it public. You have, in my view, told the public that c-tran employees have convinced the board to place a measure on the ballot when we have excess cash. I have spent alot of time this year on our budget numbers as well as the state auditor. I do have more faith in our numbers than yours, however I will seek to find the truth and hold either you or c-tran accountable."

Where this is going, I haven't a clue. Would Tiffany Couch be so blinded by her political leanings that she would risk her professional reputation? Or is she the patriot champion of Clark County voters as some say?

It's only getting more interesting.....

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the info buckeye71. Touting one's credentials as a retired police detective in order to garner votes for political gain I can understand, as long as we can view a bit more of her resume. More information should be made available. I'm surprised someone would run for office and not have a prepared bio to include education. Many unanswered questions. And since she seems to be less than forth coming with our local paper.....

nailingit — November 5, 2011 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen: You make so many good points. Problem is, we have all been burned so many times that it is difficult to know who to trust.

Keeping an open mind is good advice. This is gonna be revealed in time. Even if Prop 1 does not pass, the accusations have been made and there will be investigations.

Your tax dollars at work. Again. :)

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah, so are we.

frobert — November 5, 2011 at 6:19 p.m

Got a mouse in your pocket or do you live outside of the city limits too?

hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit November 5, 2011 at 4:22 p.m.
--Qualifying factor #3-- A mother of five. Need I comment on this? I respect women in the political arena every bit as men. But when volunteering and motherhood are two major factors the candidate expects us to consider, we should take a second look. What if a man ran on these two items...he would be laughed at. -----

I am a strong supporter of women being involved in the political arena at all levels. Groups offer women training so they can have a credible resume without much paid work experience out of the home. That very assistance is probably not anything Wentzel would utilize. Her advocates and supporters have not done her any favors by not helping her to maximize a very thin list of accomplishments. It looks like she doesn’t have any education or she would have listed it by now.

She hasn’t been appointed to any boards or commissions. Her volunteer work is not listed in a way that can be verified. Usually, there is a strong combination of community activity with some education background. She will have a steep learning curve if elected. If she were sincere about contributing to Vancouver, she would join some community organizations and work her way through the offices.

Also, she is a perfect candidate for Toastmasters. If you haven’t seen her at Council meetings, you just can’t envision the lack of respect and anger she exhibits. She seems unable to present in a way that would encourage others to come around to her way of thinking. She will be representing Vancouver in a variety of settings that have nothing to do with just the meetings in Council chambers.

Fertility is a good thing so is adoption. If Wentzel had the luxury to not work out of the home, that’s wonderful for her and her family but it’s not a skill, knowledge or ability required for this job. However, I do believe there are transferable skills that should be respected.

I believe her employment with Madore started in November, 2010. I’m sorry I don’t remember where I saw this so I can’t verify. Is that her only paid employment or was she a paid lobbyist at one time? Does she not want to use the word “lobbyist”?

buckeye71 — November 5, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71 — November 5, 2011 at 8:46 p.m.

I think you've nailed it.

hawkeye — November 5, 2011 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting development, if you are following the Tiffany Couch/C Tran controversy.

The link Ms Couch posted on the FB side that showed her evidence and the email exchange between she and Marc Boldt I posted at 7:19 PM is no longer on her blog.

No, she has still not answered my email, Goldenoldie.

manthou — November 5, 2011 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


buckeye71 — November 5, 2011 at 7:14 p.m.

If you and others in this country had required these exact questions to be answered and proven over the last three years we would have more than likely perp walked Obama from the White House and charged him with treason.

Nothing like the good old smell of hypocrisy.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 6, 2011 at 1:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie and roger: We may be the only ones on this thread with interest in the local story where Tiffany Couch, CPA produced a report critical of C-Tran's Proposition 1, so I am moving my future comments over to C-Tran Forum. I think this is gonna be big and bears watching.

I finally got an email, Goldie.

manthou — November 6, 2011 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_O... (I know it's wikipedia)

I just wanted to remind some of us of President Obama's background and some accomplishments. Some watch so much Fox news and listen to right wing hacks like Limbaugh in order to appease their disjointed and biased opinions, the grip on reality becomes lost. I know many conservatives believe he's foreign born/have doubts about his citizenship, judge him as a criminal, believe he is a socialist, and blah blah blah...and more blah. These people are lost in the self-made muck and mire of racism and bigotry, yet at the same time trump individual freedoms! Amazing! :)))

Anyone watch Huntsman on Meet The Press? The more I see of this guy the more I like him.

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I know many conservatives believe..." I should qualify this to target right wing conservatives. I think most of those leaning left, get it. At least that has been my experience.

Not to sound..biased. :))

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou: If you are interested, I have responded to your comments via the C-Tran forum.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...you sounding biased???

Never!!!
:))

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit and Allen: I have liked Huntsman for quite some time. He has reasonable ideas and seems to want to find ways to forge alliances.

I don't think he stands a chance to win the nomination, sadly.

manthou — November 6, 2011 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


flip-flopping. Most times, I don't know what to think of that term. Are politicians supposed to be so resolute that facts don't mean a thing-their minds are made up? Why debate a bill in Congress? If changing a position is "flip-flopping", and can't be done, skip the debate and move on. Hell, disband Congress and have representatives vote on-line from their homes. End the blustery speeches in Congress as it is nothing but a dog and pony show for the little people, and it's not entertaining anymore.

Why become incensed as these puppets sell us out behind closed doors making their "deals"? Politically, to avoid being labeled a flip-flopper, what other avenue is left? I'd much rather hear a representative say, in effect, "after considering all the information and discussion, I feel blah, blah, blah"-and changed or modified a position.

I'm guessing, but perhaps there's no politician that is perceived well enough anymore to be trusted to represent in the best faith of his constituents therefore he is required to "vote the polls" so as not to fall into disfavor. Kinda of a zero-tolerance thing. Don't think, debate, consider anything-just vote as we want because your judgement isn't trusted enough to vote otherwise.

There's also a good arguement that compromising on tough measures simply kicks the can down the road, especially now, when serious problems exist and the need to do something is dire. With the Congress totally partisian now, it's obvious the sticking to your guns mentality isn't working either. We really need a Churchill-type guy to get us out of this mess, and from where I sit, there aren't any. Obama, with hope and change optimism had it, but couldn't seize it. The only GOPer's I see with a chance of doing so are Romney or Huntsman, but I look for Perry to get the nod. He's among the worst of the lot, but appears most electable, and after all, that's all that matters.

mrd — November 6, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen...I agree. I might even vote for him as long as a Dem majority in House/Senate was guaranteed. The prospect of an entirely controlled Republican Government is more than scary. Think Bush 2000-2006

goldenoldie @ 10:30....naw...me, biased?!? :))

Have you been to old Mcmenamin's Poor House? The wife and I are thinking about taking a drive and thought this sounded interesting.

manthou- A 2011 republican politician who is worldly, intelligent, well educated, without personal baggage, articulate and affable is indeed a rare find!

I'll make a prediction and say he will be a leading political pundit for CNN/MSNBC/etc. when this is over and eventually his own show. Great money and a way to get his moderate message out.

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_d has a deadline to meet if I remember correctly. That's a big if! :)) One person's short term can be another's long.

That's what she said! :)))

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I don't think you'd be disappointed if we're talking about McMenamin's Edgefield in Troutdale. I've heard only positive comments.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I heartily echo goldie's recommendation about McMenamin's Edgefield: the winery; Jerry's (as in Garcia) Ice House bar; the little Red Shed (my favorite place to sip beer and munch peanuts in the rain). Can't go wrong on a clear autumn Sunday!

Have fun! Raise a glass to your Whine cellar friends (the other one) who are with you in spirit!

manthou — November 6, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have a Statement.. It's on Huntsman.. I've watched maybe three or four interviews with him and various reporter types’ shows.. He always comes across as articulate and his thoughts seemed well, thoughtful to say the least.. His only baggage if he has any seems that of his religion.. I for one don't care who someone worships..This guy just seems like a people person whom you could sit down and actually have a conversation with and understand what he just said..Why isn't he getting more traction..Is it because he doesn't come across very strong???

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2011 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome to this evening’s third installment of K.N. Dalai’s “IT’S A small WORLD, but we’re all one BIG happy family” trilogy.

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kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**THE ICE MAN RUNNETH.**

*Professor Sven Nailson is the team leader of eight archeologists and paleoanthropologists. Professor Nailson was born in Sweden, received his PhD in Switzerland and then moved to the United States, where he became a citizen, and now has tenure at the University of Wisconsin-- Madison. The team was air lifted into a remote wilderness area, in eastern Siberia, by helicopter. After their transport leaves, they make the horrifying discovery that all of their food provisions are missing. Professor Nailson makes a frantic call to the mission coordinator at the university, only to be frustrated in his inability to make contact. Unbeknownst to the team, there has just been a massive solar flare, which has knocked out all airwave communications. A condition which will last for over two weeks.*

Professor Nailson: HOLY YUMPIN YIMINY!! VE AIN’T GOT NO FOOD!! VHAT AR VE GOIN’ TO DO NOW!? I’M HUNGRY! HEY!! AREN’T VE MISSIN’ SOME TEAM MEMBERS?

Assistant: Yes. It’s those two Republicans.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!!! VE BROUGHT REPUBLICANS VID US!?

Assistant: Yes. Two of them.

Professor Nailson: YUMPIN YIMINY CRICKET!! HOW COME!?

Assistant: Funding. We had to have a couple of token Republicans to get funding.

Professor Nailson: OOOOHHHH YA! DEY GOT ALL DE MONEY, SO VE GOT TO PLAY DEIR GAMES!!

Assistant: Right.

Professor Nailson: AHHHH!! DON’T DO DHAT TO ME!! YOU KNOW I CAN’T STAND DHAT VORD!

Assistant: O.K.

Professor Nailson: SO VHERE AR DOSE REPUBLICANS ANYVAY!?

Assistant: They’re cooking the fish.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! VHAT FISH!?

Assistant: The fish they caught.

Professor Nailson: Dey caught fish?

Assistant: Yes. And their cooking them.

Professor Nailson: HA! AND JUST VHAT ARE DEY COOKING DE FISH ON!!? A SUN BAKED FLAT ROCK!!? HA!!

The others: HA!! HAHAHA!!!

Assistant: No. They’re cooking the fish in an iron skillet.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! AND JUST VHERE DID DEY GET DEIR IRON SKILLET FROM!? VE DIDN’T BRING NO SKILLET VID US!

Assistant: Well…

Professor Nailson: Hmmm?

Assistant: The two Republicans found a vein of iron ore. Then they mined the iron ore. Then they used the fuel we brought with us…to boil the water for the freeze dried food we don’t have…to smelter the iron ore into hot molten iron. Then they fashioned the iron into a skillet.

Sven Nailson: SO NOW ALL DE COOKING GAS IS GONE!?

Assistant: Yes.


Professor Nailson: HA! DOSE REPUBLICANS IS SO STUPID!! HA!! AND JUST VHAT IS DEY USING FOR HEAT? TO HEAT DE IRON SKILLET TO COOK DE FISH!?

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Assistant: When they fashioned their iron skillet, they also made axes. To cut down the trees, to burn the wood, to make the fire, to heat the iron skillet with the fish inside. The iron skillet.

Professor Nailson: VE’VE ONDLY BEEN HERE A HOUR! Dey did all this in a hour?

Assistant: Yes.

Professor Nailson: Do dey have a fishing permit?

Assistant: No.

Professor Nailson: HA! DOSE REPUBLICANS MAKE ME SICK!! VE’VE BEEN HERE A HOUR, AND ALREADY DEY HAVE MANAGED TO DESPOIL DE ENVIRONMENT!! DEY HAVE MINED DE EARTH!! DEY HAVE LOGGED DE TREES!! DEY POLLUTE DE AIR VID DEIR FIRE SMOKE FROM BURNING DEIR WOOD!! DEY FISH VIDOUT A PERMIT!! DEN DEY HOARD ALL DE FISH!! AND DEY HAVE MADE VEAPONS!!!


Assistant: Well, we do have to eat.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! DON’T BODDER ME VID DHAT TRIPE!!!

Assistant: They invited us to dinner.

Professor Nailson: OHHH!! And now dey dink dey can bribe us!! DEY MAKE ME SICK!! Vell… Ve’ll go have some fish. DE FISH BELONG TO EVERYVUN ANYVAY!!! I HOPE DOSE REPUBLICANS DON’T DINK DEY’RE DOING US ANY FAVORS!!!


Assistant: Have you ever heard of the labor theory of property.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! DON’T BODDER ME VID DADT TRIPE!! HA!!!

The others: HA!! HAHAHA!!!

*Professor Nailson stares at on of the laughing team members*

Professor Nailson: I don’t recognize you. Who ar you anyvay?

Team member: I’m Toughasnails.

Professor Nailson: I’M NOT FAMILIAR VID YOUR VORK! VHAT PAPERS HAVE YOU PUBLISHED!?

Toughasnails: I ain’t published no papers.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!!

Toughasnails: I’m new at dis game. When da Codfather passed on, rest in peace, da family business weren’t no goid anymore. Da other four families run us out of New Yoik. I went on da unemployment. Den I got a job as a paleoanthropologist.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! SO YOU AIN’T GOT NO EXPERIENCE!?

Toughasnails: Oh, I gots plenty of exporience, and da counselors at da unemployment office said I have a very high aptitoide for paleoanthropology.


Professor Nailson: YOU’RE NOT VUN OF DOSE REPUBLICANS AR YOU!!?

Toughasnails: I hate thoise Republicans. That Don Bart Zoichini was one of dem, and he was always tryin’ to muscle in on da Cannoli family business.

*The Republicans serve up the fish. After dinner the six non-Republican team members go about setting up their large tent and preparing their base camp. The two Republicans have gone off on their own.*

Assistant: Professor Nailson, those clouds have come in very quickly and the temperature has been dropping at an alarming rate. Do you think…

Professor Nailson: Nuttin’to vorry about. Now… it’s time to have ar evening discussion. Tonight, ve vill discuss Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

*A lively discussion ensues.*

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Professor Nailson: Dose Republicans don’t know nuttin’ about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. HA!!


Assistant: HA!!

Everyone: HA!! AHHH…HAHAHA!!!

Professor Nailson: I’M SO SICK OF NO-NUTTIN’ EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS!! I’M A DEMOCRAT, BUT I’M A MODERATE. I INFORM MY DINKING VID VELL BALANCED INFORMATION SOURCES LIKE MUDTER JONES, DE DAILY KOS AND SOCIALIST VORLD!!


Assistant: Me too!!

Democrat #3: Me too!!

Democrat #4: Me too!!

Democrat #5: Me Too!!

Toughasnails: Meese too!!

*Then… the outside wind becomes a ferocious howling. Their big tent is on the verge of being blown away. The temperature has dropped so low that the team’s survival is in jeopardy.*

Professor Nailson: V-V-D-D-_ _ _ _! I-I-I-‘-‘-‘-M-M-M- C-C-Cold.


Assistant: I’ve just come from those two Republicans. They built a big igloo. It’s sort of warm inside. They said we should all come over right away. They said it’s not a big tent, but it seems to work.

Professor Nailson: V-V-V-V-Vhat? H-How di-di dey do-do-do ddddht?

Assistant: When they saw the weather conditions…dey used… I mean they used…they went up to the glacier and used their axes to cut out big ice blocks. Then they cut down some more trees to make a vagon vid vheels, I mean, a wagon with wheels, to bring the ice blocks into camp. It’s really cool.

*Professor Nailson and the Democrats eke their way through the blizzard, slowly crawling over to the Republican’s igloo.*

Professor Nailson: D-D-D-Don’t d-d-dink you ar d-d-doing us any f-f-f-favors. Dis ice belongs to e-e-e-e-veryone anyv-v-v-ay!

*By the next morning, the storm has passed. The two Republicans have left the igloo very early and gone off on their own. The Democrats awaken, and crawl outside to look around. Then, out of nowhere, a bedraggled man with a very long beard and tattered clothing hobbles into camp.*

Professor Nailson: HOLY MUDTER OF ODIN!! WHO AR YOU!!!

The intrudger: I’m Ilikenailinpalin.

Professor Nailson: VHAT AR YOU DOIN’ HERE!!?

Ilikenailinpalin: Soviet superstar performer comrade Bruce Springsky did not show up at big People’s Rally. Comrade the Chief got very mad. Blamed me! Moscow party big shots banished me to Siberia.

Professor Nailson: OOOOH NO!

Ilikenailinpalin: Yes, is true! Do not mind, so much, wandering aimlessly about, scrounging for nuts and grubs, but thing that frosts my Cossack pants, is that Sarah Palin. Has been laughing at me for years!

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! HOW DO YOU KNOW DIS!!!

Ilikenailinpailin: Can see her front porch from Siberia! Look!

*The team all look eastward.*

Professor Nailson: OH MY… THOR! DERE SHE IS!! AND SHE’S STARING AT US VID DEM BINOCULARS!!!

Everyone: OOOOH NO!!


kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*The Democrats all instinctively know what to do. As they collectively give her an obscene gesture, Sarah’s eyes bulge wide open in shock and she suddenly turns and storms back inside the house, slamming the door behind her.*

Professor Nailson: OUCH! I could hear dhat door slam shut. MY EARS HURT!!

Ilikenailinpalin: Could hear door slam shut in Moscow.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!?

Ilikenailinpalin: I SAID, COULD HEA…

Professor Nailson: HA! DHAT GOODY TWO-SHOES VON’T GIVE US NO PROBLEMS NO MORE. HA!!

Assistant: HAHA!!

Everyone: AHH! HAHAHA!!

*Professor Nailson and the other six, then busy themselves searching for good candidate sites for a future major archeological dig. Ilikenailinpalin, who has been through this area many times before, goes to a small crevasse which he remembers. He climbs down inside and then reemerges carrying two broken bones which he has found. He calls out to the others, who all come running over to see his discovery.*

Ilikenailinpalin: Am not sure exactly what they are, but think they have been down there very long time.

Toughasnails: Thoise is broken tibias, from primitive man. Dey reminds me of Jimmy “Da Welcher” Zoichini, da last time I paid him a visit. Haha.

Professor Nailson: HOLY YUMPIN’ YOSEPHINE!! Dis is a fantastic find! It is beyond my vildest dreams!!! I vill write another paper in de anthropology journal about dis very important discovery! Don’t vorry! You vill all share in de credit! EXCEPT DOSE TWO REPUBLICANS OF COURSE!!! JUST WHO DO DEY DINK DEY AR ANYVAY? HA! DEY AR NOT EVEN HERE VID US TO HELP!! DEY AR PROBABLY OUT GOOFIN’ OFF AGAIN!!

*The professor looks up and sees something a short distance off.*

Professor Nailson: VHATS DHAT!!

Assistant: It’s those two Republicans.

Professor Nailson: VELL I KNOW DADT!! BUT VHAT AR DEY DOING!? I SUPPOSE DEY EXPECT US TO COME OVER AND HELP DHEM!!

*The team members go over to the approaching Republicans to find them transporting a large, rectangular block of ice on their wagon. The professor chastises the two for not participating with the team and then takes a closer look at the block of ice. Suddenly, he is startled.*

Professor Nailson: AHHHHHH!! AHHHHHH!! IT’S A MAN!! IT’S A MAN FROZEN INSIDE DE BLOCK OF ICE!!!!!

Assistant: AHHH!!

Everyone: AHHHHH!!!


Republican #1: Yes. We found him last night but didn’t have time to bring him back. Let’s get this back to base camp.

*The two Republicans finish pulling the wagon into base camp, with Ilikenailinpalin and the six Democrats giving them direction. The two Republicans unload the block of ice, and lay it on the ground.*

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Professor Nailson: Hmmm. Robust skeletal structure, prominent occipital bun, pronounced supraorbital torus. Definitely Homo neanderthalensis! No one has ever found Neanderthal man this far east! About vun hundred taosand years old. What a beautiful specimen. And so beautifully preserved!*

Toughasnails: He loiks just like Jimmy ‘Da Welcher’ Zoichini. But it coidn’t be. Jimmy never wore no woolly mammoth toga.

*The team members are all hunched over observing the ice man as the ice slowly turns to water. The ice all finally melts when suddenly….*


The team: AHHHH!! AHHHH!! AHHHHHHH!!

*The ice man’s eyes pop open and he speaks, as the team members all jump back.*

Ice man: AUHGG HA MACHT! MAHR WA HM. (WHAT THE _ _ _ _! WHERE AM I!)

Professor Nailson: I UNDERSTOOD HIM!

The other Democrats: SO DID I!

Republican #1: I didn’t understand a thing he said.

Republican #2: Me neither.

Professor Nailson: HA!! YOU REPUBLICANS DON’T UNDERSTAND NUTTIN’!!!

Ilikenailinpalin: What should we call him?

Professor Nailson: Hmmm. I attended university in Basil, Switzerland. Ahhh. Such a beautiful place. Just like our beautiful new friend here. I shall name him…Neanderbasil. Yes, it has a certain ring to it. And I shall write a paper in de anthropology journal about our brilliant new discovery! And about our brilliant linguistic deciphering abilities! Vell, most of us anyvay.

Assistant: Ahem. Professor Nailson, It’s actually Basel, Switzerland, not Basil, Switzerland, and it’s pronounced a little differently.


Professor Nailson: HEY!!! DIS IS MY STORY, AND IF I VANT TO SAY, BASIL, DEN DHAT’S DE VAY IT IS!!! His name is NeanderBASIL! LIKE DE CITY!!!

Assistant: Right.

Professor Nailson: AHHHH!!!

*Days pass. The Democrats engage Neanderbasil in much discussion, and are amazed at what they learn. The Republicans cannot understand anything Neanderbasil says, so they busy themselves with providing the food, and preparing the meals.*

Professor Nailson: Vhat’s for dinner tonight?

Assistant: Fish.

Professor Nailson: VHAT!! AGAIN!! DOSE REPUBLICANS HAVE A VUN TRACK MIND!! CAN’T DEY DINK OF ANYDING ELSE!!?

Assistant: Well… they did find some berries of some sort. They made a pie.


Professor Nailson: Vell, isn’t dhat nice. Vid all de air pollution dey’ve caused, dose berries is probably ALL TOXIC NOW! VHAT AR DEY TRYIN’ TO DO!! KILL US ALL!!! Vell OK. Ve don’t vant to be rude. Ve’ll eat de berry pie. DOSE BERRIES BELONG TO EVERYVUN ANYVAY!!

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*The next morning, the transport helicopter arrives at the time that had been prearranged.*

Professor Nailson: Vell, lets see now. Dere is de six of us team members. And den dere is Neanderbasil, of course. Den Ilikenailinpalin is commin’ vid us. And ve got all dhese fish packed in ice ve need to bring back vid us. Uh Oh. Looks like de helicopter is filled up. Dere ain’t no more room. You Republicans vill just have to stay here! OK!! LET’S GO!!!

The two Republicans watch, as the helicopter lifts off and recedes into the horizon.

To be continued.

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Headache you say SportyJames??? What gives me a headache are the articles in the news which are written before the facts come to fruition. Kn_dalai's writes are entertaining as well as carrying a message which just might turn some people into throwing insults into the fire. Oops...I guess it's already started.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well sporty Jimmy "Da Welcher" Zoichini,

You will be glad to know that I shall not grace these pages much longer anyway:(

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WHAT???? A CLIFFHANGER???

Kn_dalai...

Come on now...don't let a little sarcasm from Sporty Zoichini rain on your parade.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm expecting to learn that Prof Nailson's cohorts are Chilean Christian Democrats, and that ilikenailinpalin is actually Herm Cain seeking advice on privatizing Social Security. Sarah already heard about him from the NRA crowd and that's why she left in such a hurry.

Correct?

roger — November 6, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 3:52 p.m.

Naw Goldie,

I shall return next week to conclude. (And I actually got a laugh from Sporty Zoichini.) Yes, is true:)

kn_dalai — November 6, 2011 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Allrighty then, Kn_dalai.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2011 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WASHINGTON (AP) - House Speaker John Boehner says his relationship with one-time golf partner President Barack Obama has grown "a little frosty."

The Ohio Republican complains in an interview with ABC's "This Week" that Obama is engaging in what Boehner calls "class warfare" by pushing for higher taxes for wealthy Americans.

***Boehner says the rich pay enough taxes and it's wrong for the president to "pit one set of Americans against another."***

Boehner says he and Obama have had a good relationship in the past, but it has grown cool in the last few weeks.

The Republican speaker and Democratic president played a round of golf together last summer in a mostly futile effort to bridge the ever-widening gap between the two political parties.

**Hey John, you mean like pitting the Republican'ts against everyone else?**

hawkeye — November 6, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One year until election and counting down. I can barely contain my excitement. We have a choice to make. Elect one loser or the other. God, I wish Christie would have run. He's the only politician in the country who has a chance of saving this miserable country. Four years from now it will be too late. obama and his puppets will have put the last nail in the coffin and China will own us, lock, stock and barrel.

cranky — November 6, 2011 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Great write K_nd! We need to tax those two republicans for land use and roadways! :)) My jovial mood was tempered by your comment at 3:46. Say it ain't so, at least say it isn't due to health concerns other than Libertarian mental fatigue. The conviviality and insight your writes and opinions provide, contribute greatly to the basement, and would be sorely missed.

What's up?

I'm concerned the two "token" Republicans might rack up fees & taxes they can't afford. Someone should have stayed behind to regulate!

I echo goldenoldie...a cliffhanger indeed!

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 11:51- What a beautiful and interesting place! Reading the history to include spiritual/ghost accounts, we explored quite a bit and met a few interesting people. We spoke with a winemaker/presser who was cleaning equipment and doing something with the barrels. The subject of spirits/ghosts came up, and we heard of some interesting encounters. I know I sound flaky enough most of the time, but let's just say I strongly sensed a rich history with the place!

nailingit — November 6, 2011 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sometimes i wish i WASN'T a member of the 60's generation. then maybe i wouldn't be so consumed by what's going on around me. i wouldn't worry that what we do at the ballot box RIGHT NOW will determine whether the republic survives or falls.

if i hadn't been in the civil rights movement, maybe i could keep everything at a safe distance and not feel like i MUST continue to fight for what i believe in.

i could just sit around and enjoy my great blessing; my own home. i could just watch the ducks plow through the bowl of wild birdseed i put out for the sparrows. marvel at all the vivid colors the trees have created. just clean and cook and take out all my frustrations by kneading dough.

but i guess SOMEBODY has to be the old soldier, the one who has the struggle in the blood. at least my family's learned that when talking politics with dee, expect a vigorous discussion. nothing personal.

well, maybe they'll learn that eventually .... :)

DeeLittle — November 6, 2011 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle, at 10:07 pm you wrote:

"sometimes i wish i WASN'T a member of the 60's generation. then maybe i wouldn't be so consumed by what's going on around me. i wouldn't worry that what we do at the ballot box RIGHT NOW will determine whether the republic survives or falls."

Ah, but those of us who shared the 60's experience were forever changed by the knowledge that we all are connected through a brotherhood/sisterhood of man/woman, Dee. No matter how our politics evolved from then to now, that understanding of connectedness has endured.

I think you can continue to care about our collective future and enjoy your own respite and refuge. I hope you continue to try.

manthou — November 7, 2011 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle

You turned out just fine. So many flower children of the 60's gave us the blooming idiots of the next generation.

Rightwing_Extremist — November 7, 2011 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*i could keep everything at a safe distance and not feel like i MUST continue to fight for what i believe in.
DeeLittle — November 6, 2011 at 10:07 p.m*

Dee, I hear you, you must never give up or forget. I haven't, and no one can force me to change. I passed on what I lived and learned to my children.

ELISI — November 7, 2011 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RWE!!!!

I spit water everywhere!!! LOL

ELISI — November 7, 2011 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*dee looks around at her fellow basement dwellers and realizes this is where she belongs.*

DeeLittle — November 7, 2011 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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