Open Forum, Sept. 26 - Oct. 2

Published:

 

Most read stories on Columbian.com last week:

No. 1) Living Hope Church short $1M fundraising goal as deadline nears

No. 2) Dancing with the local stars photo gallery

No. 3) Report of suicidal woman leads to standoff

No. 4) Woman arrested after early morning shooting in Battle Ground

No. 5) Brush Prairie man accused of murdering father

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492 comments

Comments

Good morning to you as well, Allen. It's a good day for me to get cookin' in the kitchen with some more of my home made bread, meat and vegetable-filled pastries and three batches of zucchini bread.

goldenoldie — September 26, 2011 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The FDA is implementing a ban on over the counter asthma inhalers effective December 31st. They have indicated that many prescription options are available to those that can afford them. Is this part of the administrations plan to fight poverty, either stop being poor or die?

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


with all the poverty this depression is causing, there's little else the government can do. death squads incognito.

mrd — September 26, 2011 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 26, 2011 at 7:06 a.m.

Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer

So, yeah, a US govt conspiracy........

Perhaps a stronger case could be made that a US CORP is attempting to maximize profits by not producing a viable (oh say, hand pump) alternative.....

mr_basil_seal — September 26, 2011 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @ 6:54...sounds like it could be an incredible breakthrough. The world needs something positive like this. This could be a springboard to curing cancer! Who knows!

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 26, 2011 at 7:48 a.m.

The small amount of chlorofluorocarbons expelled from all of the otc inhalers is insignificant when compared to the "gassing off" of teflon. Why hasn't that been banned?

People will die as a direct result of this policy.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow fro, way to take your train off the tracks. Did you ever think it could be something like this;

***Asthmatics who rely on Primatene Mist to control their symptoms need to start stocking up on the over-the-counter medicine now — or find a new prescription alternative.

The FDA reminded us today the drug will no longer be available after Dec. 31 because the delivery system — a certain type of inhaler — uses chlorofluorocarbons. Those compounds, known as CFCs, damage the ozone layer, and are being removed in accordance with an international agreement, the descriptively-named Montreal Protocol on Substances That Deplete the Ozone Layer.***

All other similar medications are OK, it's just this one.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


People will die as a direct result of this policy.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 8:07 a.m.

***Uh, No they won't***

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 8:10 a.m.

"All other similar medications are OK, it's just this one."

This one product is the only over the counter asthma inhaler.

"or find a new prescription alternative."

So those that cannot afford a Physicians visit should just die and get it over with?

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The FDA began public discussions about the use of CFCs in epinephrine inhalers in January 2006. The FDA finalized the phase-out date for using CFCs in these inhalers and notified the public in November 2008. Many manufacturers have changed their inhalers to replace CFCs with an environmentally-friendly propellant called hydrofluoroalkane (HFA). There is currently no HFA version of epinephrine inhalers.

There are, however, many other safe and effective inhalers to treat asthma symptoms. All of these inhalers require a prescription, which must come from a licensed health care professional (physician, physician’s assistant or nurse practitioner). Current epinephrine inhaler users that don’t have a health care professional to write them a new prescription can ask a family member or friend what doctor they use and would recommend, or they can visit a federally-qualified health center, local clinic, community health center, or minute-clinic (sometimes located in pharmacies) to see a health care professional and get a prescription.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


sportyjames- Obama has his share of town halls. It's not fund raising per say. It's cutting off access to your constituency by exclusively having them.

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen @ 8:15...it's no doubt already in the works! The same ones who create, can destroy. That's why single payer/public option is important to bring about affordable health care. Imho.

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Monday mornin to you Allen..I agree we needed the rain..the air smells sooo much better.

Great news about the virus, lets all hope the research will help thousands to liver longer and happier lives!

Frobert, I read the same article, as a person with asthma my inhalers are prescription only and very very expensive. I would never buy over the counter. To easy to misuse and cause more damage to ones lungs. They CAN repackage and use another form of propellant. They have changed the propellant in my emergency inhaler and did so about a year ago. So if it can be done with mine and other pump style inhalers in prescription form, over the counter can be too.

ELISI — September 26, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


oopss that should read "will help thousands to live longer and happier lives!"

not "will help thousands to liver longer and happier lives!"

ELISI — September 26, 2011 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000132

A vaporizer might mitigate a good portion of the "con" side.

What?

Drift — September 26, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift...LOL!

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sure Drift, just not quite as portable as an inhaler.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Air Force One landed at Seattle's Boeing Field at about 11:45 a.m. Sunday, and the president then headed for his first stop in the wealthy enclave of Medina.
About 65 guests paid $35,800 per couple to listen to Obama at the brunch, the first of seven fundraisers he was holding from Seattle to Hollywood to San Diego on Sunday and Monday.*

Only the wealthy enclave of Medina???

*He's meeting with the Silicon Valley and Hollywood elite, including an event Sunday night in Atherton, Calif., at the home of Facebook chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg.
The expected haul from all seven events: $4 million or more.*

Silicon Valley and Hollywood elite???

Where are the town halls for the middle class and poor? The very ones who's votes were the ones that put him in office.

4 million plus would go a long way to help people in need. Medicines, food, shelter..
and some say republicans are out of touch with the little people...how funny..

ELISI — September 26, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 26, 2011 at 8:28 a.m.

Epinephrine does not have the same rebound effect as your Albuterol rescue inhaler. Also many people do not have the option of visiting a physician to get a prescription. Albuterol was also reformulated to use the new propellant, it is not a direct replacement. People will die as a direct result of this misguided policy.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Fro, too bad nobody has had enough time to figure this all out. Let's see, November 2008 to December 2011. Yup, no way anybody could get a replacement in THAT amount of time. Yup, I'm sure people will die because they are too stupid to get help, or maybe they will drown because they are too busy staring at the sky with their mouths open wondering why water if falling.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:32 a.m.

Armstrong pharmaceuticals has developed a CFC free version, they are however awaiting FDA approval, which can take years. In the meantime poor people will be allowed to die.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe you should be ranting to the FDA instead of here.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:40 a.m.

This is an "open forum" isn't it?

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You know that a while back the FDA served notice to Diamond Nuts that because they claimed their walnuts were good for the circulatory system that meant said nuts were a drug.

Therefore, Diamond would have to go through the approval process for new drugs. In the meantime they were at risk of forfeiture.

No, man. Really.

Drift — September 26, 2011 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This conversation could have existed in the "Drugs & Hugs" forum that was suggested to the 'C'!

Hey, I just noticed the cat is back (I'm a little slow this morning)! Alley, are you back again?

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes it is and if you can get a prescription and have $4, you can get an albuterol nebulizer for one month or $10 for 3 months at Walmart and other places. Are the OTC ones that cheap?

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 26, 2011 at 9:45 a.m

"And I could be like some of the tea baggers and yell out "let them die."

Do you have a source for that or are you just making stuff up?

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 9:49 a.m.

Albuterol sulfate inhaler is not available under Walmart's $4 prescription program. Carrying around a nebulizer as a rescue inhaler would be inconvenient.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert and Hawkeye,

Many of the drug companies also offer help in discounts to free inhalers. Many people don't know to go online, google the company that makes the drug, or the name of the drug and a little searching one can find discount coupons.

I go online and print out a coupon for my Advair each time I update my prescription. After insurance and the coupon I still pay $50 a month for it...my Combivent (Albuterol emergency inhaler) After insurance, no coupons available it's cost is $75 a month.
The costs vary depends on what insurance and plan you have.

ELISI — September 26, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to defend Obama, but --

He is trying to raise money for his campaign. His little junket isn't about "talking with the people." It's about taking peoples' money.

Who would *you* ask for money?

Drift — September 26, 2011 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 26, 2011 at 10:41 a.m.

Yes I did, maybe you should watch it before you quote things that didn't happen.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 26, 2011 at 10:47 a.m.

It is a misguided policy because the administration has delayed other regulations that effect their corporate masters but allow the people to go without lifesaving medication.

frobert — September 26, 2011 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Social Contract
By PAUL KRUGMAN

As background, it helps to know what has been happening to incomes over the past three decades. Detailed estimates from the Congressional Budget Office — which only go up to 2005, but the basic picture surely hasn’t changed — show that between 1979 and 2005 the inflation-adjusted income of families in the middle of the income distribution rose 21 percent. That’s growth, but it’s slow, especially compared with the 100 percent rise in median income over a generation after World War II.

Meanwhile, over the same period, the income of the very rich, the top 100th of 1 percent of the income distribution, rose by 480 percent. No, that isn’t a misprint. In 2005 dollars, the average annual income of that group rose from $4.2 million to $24.3 million.

So do the wealthy look to you like the victims of class warfare?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/opinion/krugman-the-social-contract.html?ref=opinion

mr_basil_seal — September 26, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 26, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.

Did you seriously misread Krugman's piece?

mr_basil_seal — September 26, 2011 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Go to Mexico or have someone go for you. You can get the same inhalers, etc. for a fraction of the cost they cost in this country. They are the same ones, but the greedy drug companies can't buy off the politicians down there like they do here so the prices are reasonable. At least for now they are.

cranky — September 26, 2011 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm liking this new pres we have. Speaking with authority and standing up to the Corporatists.

This is sounding like the guy I voted for. For lack of choice and a renewed message Obama will win in 2012.

If only the republicans had made an agreement on the 4 million $$$ debt deal. PR and perk wise they had it going on. They must kick themselves every waking minute. I'm glad the TanMan got "98%" of what he wanted. It's working so well! Right wing greed and bias has come home to roost, and will for another four years in the teabag/republican party. Maybe Obama will spring for the donuts at the first post election meeting with Boehner & Cantor in '012. If they are still around. After that...take us back to the Reagan era tax rates!...NO MERCY!!! hahahaha!

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


^Correction to say 4 trillion $$$ debt deal.

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If anyone gets a chance, try and catch Laurence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC tonight. It comes on again @ 8:00 & 12:00. Exceptional show this evening. Everything from Obama being the "Anti-Christ" to many on the right(!), to exposing police brutality that took place during the recent arrests of wall street protesters. Great video of these heavy handed jerks in blue. Don't cops and those in power ever learn? This will only fire people up. And it should.

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry nail, it won't fire up anyone. It's not the cops ( paid agents of the state) that screw things up, it's the fact their employers-the government agency they work for-have done so. The police suck. they are simply an arm of of the government they are sworn to protect. When all hell breaks loose, these agents will shoot us in the streets-THAT'S their function. Protect the powers & money (see Wall Street protests and the government use of facebook). If you don't think it's a class war fare thing, think again. And go to Basil's link. It's real, it's evident, and it's happening-RIGHT NOW. Obama, Boner, Palin, it doesn't matter-at $2500 to $35,000 to meet these sh!ts, to whom are they listening? Can you say cha-ching? CYA$$, they're gonna get 'cha. BTW, dumped any money in the market lately? These clowns need your money. Why does the fund I sh!tcanned still tells me to "stay the course" while the big boys dump stocks like a hot rock? Class warfare? Not a f@@king doubt!

mrd — September 26, 2011 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd- I agree to most. But I do think obvious police abuses rally the masses. The martyr thing. These public employees in blue need to be held to a higher standard, not lower than most petty criminals. Totally agree on the class warfare take. It's like putting your finger in a dyke that wants to bust loose. I think the best chance of at least delaying it, is a Democratic Administration. If Republicans had the House, Senate and Pres, imagine the escalation of corporate takeover and corruption. It's bad enough now. Until we start putting people behind bars for wall street white collar crime, there's no deterrent and no change. Obama ran on the type of change that he is has been turning away from. I just don't think he's in quite as deep, and has a philosophical commitment to greed like his counterparts.

Cops. So many of them give the average citizen a bad name. As well as injury and death. I believe some are decent and try to do the right thing. But the way the system is, as you mentioned, not much will change for the better.

nailingit — September 26, 2011 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Kids.

A few days ago there was a story on the news (one of those FYI stories) about a local guy who invented a little gizmo that rolls up your toothpaste tube. They were talking about how hard it is to get your product to market and the problems involved. Well, I'm here to tell you, this guy made a good item and not to sound too gung ho here but I bought one and it really really works. I'm buying one for my wife, Father in law and others. You too can get one at your local Fred Meyer store in the toothpaste aisle for all of $1.49. Local guy makes good. Buy one or two or three.

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh yea, it's called "The Roll it".

hawkeye — September 26, 2011 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Democracy Now also has coverage and reports "Occupy "Los Angeles"
is going to happen. They also have interviews with victims of police brutality. Michael Bloomberg has a rogue elephant police chief.

mangoboy — September 27, 2011 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 27, 2011 at 6:59 a.m.

Yesterday's Democracy Now covered it also. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/26/

And WNYC NPR had a story, http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-blog/2011/sep/25/mass-arrests-occupy-wall-street-demonstrations-grow/

But, you are right, the coverage is amazingly thin. And for the most part, dealing with the 'little' stories rather than in depth writing about WHY they are there.

Chomsky finally made a statement, about 8 days into the Occupy Wall Street action. Michael Moore hung out for a bit. Meanwhile, James Hanson was out on the lines and getting arrested for his activism.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 27, 2011 at 6:49 a.m

Yeah, you are right, Fox seems to have more coverage than NYT...

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal



ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 8:59 a.m.

Wonder what Lew or Bob will / would post.....

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 8:59 a.m.

I get it but I'm not sure it's the best way to protest the new bill. I think the problem with this is going to be that some people will not dig a little deeper to find out what it's all about. Back in the 70's when I was trying to get hired as a Police officer, I was dropped to the bottom of several lists because I was male and white. Not officially, mind you, but the point system was still there.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, myself, it's a great way to show the people.. if you can't get them to understand with words..try a bake sell..
You know, the "hands on" approach.

Basil, It really doesn't matter to me what Bob or Lew has to say about it..they have a right to an opinion just like you and I do..what those student did is a great teaching tool to those who refuse to listen. All too many times people just "don't get it". These student went far and above to and I must add a catchy way to prove a point.

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I hear you on that. When it gets to a point that people are shoved aside, hired, charged etc because of race, gender, age, or religion it just isn't right.

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.

Asking what Lew/Bob would say was a subtle jab at the stalwart RW who don't discuss points that show the error of their thinking.

The bill is necessary. Just as the Dream Act is necessary. Just as title IX was/is necessary.

The bake sale was an attempt at dehumanizing the benefactors of those bills and as a rhetorical concept shows the paucity of the RW thinking, such as it is.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,..

As I said Basil, Bob and Lew have every right as you and I do to voice their opinions on any matter. I must ask just WHO are YOU to judge wither their way of thinking is wrong?


I most definitely do not see it that way. What you are saying is making a "mole hill into a mountain"

We have progressed far enough that bills like that are not needed, point being we do have a president that is bi-racial do we not?

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.

*We have progressed far enough*

No, we haven't. Review the school stats on achievement re SES, gender, race. http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_rgp.asphttp://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/minoritytrends/

Cain and Bachmann are running for President, is that also all you need for 'proof'?

*WHO are YOU to judge wither*

Not judging, just note that the coverage on rw sources pushing that Horatio Alger myth rather than looking at the reality of the situation. 'Course as a party that is white male oriented (http://people-press.org/2011/07/22/gop-makes-big-gains-among-white-voters/#tracking-party-identification-and-party-leaning) there would be certain reasons why they would promote that.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Democrats have always opposed equality.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think you have that wrong, Fro.

Idiots, bigots and Republican'ts have always opposed equality, unless they have lots of money.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.

Look up a little history, the bigots have always been the democrats. Byrd, Wallace and Gore sr.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:20 p.m

Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as the Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present ***far-right*** organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration, historically expressed through terrorism. Since the mid-20th century, the KKK has also been anti-communist. The current manifestation is splintered into several chapters and is classified as a hate group.

Huh, go figure.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 27, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.

The congressional records are available on line, even the wikipedia summaries should give you enough information to confirm my statement.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:24 p.m

You really need to show a source for that, the klan was founded as a democrat only men's club and became the terrorist arm of the democratic party.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:41 p.m.

That is not a source.

http://history-world.org/ku_klux_klan.htm

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

As far as "school stats" goes..sorry what I see is the race card being played.
If a child is NOT getting an education via our schools, who is to blame?

1. Parents..not following up on homework, staying in touch with the teachers.

2. Teachers for not really caring and just pass the student on.
I have seen it far too many times teachers ignoring students in favor over others. Be it cause of race or because of intelligence of students. Too many times I have witnessed students asking for help or state they do not understand and being ignored by the teacher or the teacher makes excuses why they can not help, either before or after school. I know first hand when both my kids were in school, they both had what I call "lazy teachers" I thank God everyday for the teachers that did care enough to take the time to help. There are fewer and fewer teachers today that really care to do the job they are paid to do.

3. Government, you or anyone tell me why the money that is set aside for schools isn't equal to all schools? Why are some schools getting more than others?

Cain and Bachmann, don't know what your gripe about them is, I haven't paid much attention to either of them..they must have some formal education or they wouldn't be where they are today. Does everyone remember everything they have been taught? Not everyone has a photographic memory. Even president Obama makes mistakes like...saying he has been in 57 states..and has a couple more to go..
Last time I knew we have 50 states and 14 US territories that fall under the US jurisdictions.

Sorry but I don't see that Whites are promoted over Blacks, Asians, Latinos or any other race.
If you are white Basil, I'd like to see YOU try to get into a black college or university.

http://www.blackcollegesearch.com/

Why such a separation in education? Is this NOT America? Why are we still after all these decades still feeding the flames of racism with bills, laws, schools? What we are doing is feeding it, and not living as Americans regardless our skin color.

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


even the wikipedia summaries should give you enough information to confirm my statement.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:26 p.m.

make up your mind, or is it only when it fits your needs?

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:51 p.m.

I said "even the wikipedia summeriest" thus indicating it was not a proper source.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I copy and pasted exactly what you wrote. Scroll back and see.

Looks like CYA to me.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

I have to side with frobert on that. I remember what went on during the desegregation of the schools in the south. I remember my parents (democrats) neighbors and town fighting tooth and nail about it. My parents kept my older brothers home from school over it. I remember the 101st Airborne and the NG that stood outside of Little Rock Central High where my oldest brother attended to make way for the Black students.

I may have only been 6 yr old at the time Hawkeye, but I still remember the fear everyone had on all sides. I think for me that was my "ah ha" moment of life. That day burned in my memory is the biggest reason why as an adult I never became a democrat. I lived in the south and seen for myself how the Blacks were treated there by yes the Democrats.

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.

All that matters here is that the klan was founded by and for democrats.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs; and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b649007e-e92e-11e0-af7b-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1ZBYxgfIk

"Insurance premiums for family health benefits in 2011 jumped 9 per cent from a year ago to $15,073, according to a study released on Tuesday by the Kaiser Family Foundation. That represented a sharp acceleration from 2010, when premiums rose by a modest 3 per cent, and easily outpaced a 2 per cent rise in wages." (First time I have seen an appeal to not cut and paste! Next time...

Could this be a nail in Obama's coffin? Does Mass. Health Care plan during Romney look any better?

mangoboy — September 27, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No fro, all that matters is that it's wrong to judge a person by their age, color, sex or religion, regardless of your party.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, lets hope we have progressed past that point and can learn from the past.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 27, 2011 at 12:26 p.m. *enough information to confirm my statement.*

Problem one - Your claim; your job to prove it.

Problem two - You have a history of making claims you can't bring evidence for.

Problem three - Use of RW tropes based on selective choice of data, not looking at all available data. Sorta like how the Climate Change Deniers and the TP people work.

But, show us what informed your thinking.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 12:45 p.m.

Not a 'race card'. It is called evidence-based decision making. NCES has the data; you have a claim we don't need the policy based on the fact that Obama was elected.

Use of RW tropes based on selective choice of data, not looking at all available data. Sorta like how the Climate Change Deniers and the TP people work.

*the money that is set aside* What money?

*.they must have some formal education*
And a long history of both women and non-whites not having the basic opportunity for it. That is why AA and Title IX were important.

Perhaps you don't remember the white busses going past the black schools to drop kids off at 'separate but equal' schools (Brown v., btw)

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 1:32 p.m.

One the congressional record proves my point.

Two, do you have proof of this claim?

Three, unless you are prepared to make an argument against what I said, you are wasting my time.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One,

Your claim, where's the proof?

two, you are again proving that point.

three, when or IF we see your evidence, then we'll talk.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy @ 1:14...A big part of the Affordable Health Care Act that projects cost reduction doesn't even take place until 2014. Much of the plan hasn't been implemented. It's very cool that over 1 million young adults are now covered through their parents coverage (saving huge in emergency room costs), as well as a larger variety of generic versions of meds made available. Family health care costs are going up for many reasons. i.e. states choosing to cut funding and resources for public employees, while giving gazillions of dollars away in tax breaks and incentives to corporations.

nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 1:51 p.m.

Also, there is a provision in the AHCA that scrutinizes large premium increases. A couple of articles mention that HC corps. could well be raising prices now so they don't bump into that limiter later.

Also, I think there was some issue in the orig debate about policies that don't provide a defined minimum of coverage areas (part or where that birthcontrol and abortion issue came up) and those policies being grandfathered. Perhaps the HC insur. corps are phasing them out with the attendant price increases.

Here's (http://ehbs.kff.org/pdf/8226.pdf) the study; I think I'll wait for some HC policy wonks to peruse it and give some analysis.

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 11:48 & 12:20....alrighty then. The human condition is what it is. Either side can site examples. What it really comes down to is, taking what we have learned from our past mistakes, and applying directional change. What party better represents the needs (today and the last 45 years) of racial minorities, ethnic diversities, gay rights, women's rights, both individual and reproductive, and one could argue the middle class as well. It is without question the Democratic side of the aisle. Both in philosophy and policy. And when speaking of the human condition, I'll reference the comment at 1:05, (not to pick on "elisi", and "elisi" please don't yell at me for this :>0) Some people never grow out of certain childhood experiences, even as young as 6, and allow them to shape their way of thinking for the rest of their lives. Even though they weren't capable of understanding or processing the information in a mature way at the time. This type of thinking exists with a certain segment of society, and I'm sure explains much.

nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal...thanks for the link. Much to digest! From a personal standpoint I had one graduate high school last year and another one to graduate next year. It sure is nice to have them on my plan. My oldest is attending college while holding down a part time job with no bennies.

nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 2:29 p.m.

The 'til 26' provision is a huge help for kids just starting on their road to independence. Esp with the 60 and 90 day waits on new jobs, lots of jobs with no insurance, non-profits, NGOs. It isn't just Emergency Room coverage - vision, dental, preventative, family planning,,,,,,,

( I wonder what the percentage of those busloads who came down south in support of MLK, et al were Republican. )

mr_basil_seal — September 27, 2011 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 2:18 p.m

Now I am not yelling at you for what you stated. But if I hadn't have seen and experienced what I had when I was young, I may have grown up being far different person than I am today.
One that would have been full of hate for anyone different than myself..
You have no idea what it is like growing up with a parent with such hate for any other race but their own, another parent that tolerated other races simply cause of their job.
I was not allowed to go to parties, sleep overs, Girl Scout outings.. I couldn't even travel with my high school band when they'd go on trips for competitions if a black person was going.
So yeah nailingit, what I witnessed formed who I am today.
I think if you have seen the things I have, like the school, blacks leaving their place in line at the grocery stores to the back of the line cause of the whites in that line to burning crosses on a black families lawn, a black church burned to the ground, to a black man being dragged behind a pickup down the middle of a street in town..I think it would change you too no matter what age you are when you see it.

ELISI — September 27, 2011 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 2:18 p.m.

You have no clue what equality means, addressing the "needs" of certain groups over others is in opposition to equality.

Case in point, I am a firm defender of marriage equality, but I have yet to find a democrat that supports unqualified marriage equality.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


equality: 1. the quality or state of being equal 2. equation ~The Merriam-Webster Dictonary~

fro- I found a clue! It's some of the realties that befuddle.

Please define "unqualified marriage equality".

nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For what it's worth-

I grew up in Georgia in the 60's. Not exactly a place of racial enlightment. Lester Maddox axe handles, George Wallace for president??!! You get the picture.

Racism was alive and well, in fact, it was a way of life. I didn't even know it was racism for years-it's just the way it was. Hell, I was a kid, didn't know better or anything else. I never thought about it until I was in the 8th grade and played golf with a black kid from school on the course I played. I learned real fast then what was really going on. My buddy probably knew but I was clueless.

I still, to this day, wonder what kind of torment and racism these kids faced. If bullying today is an issue, these kids must have had a constitution of iron to survive.

I really wish I'd had a clue. Might have made a difference in my life and theirs. Besides, one of the black students, one of the five in the entire school, was a girl, and I had a crush on her-no way, but.......ya never know. Althea, 45 years later, sometimes I still think of you.

mrd — September 27, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 7:13 p.m.

Please define "unqualified marriage equality".

The government doesn't approve or condemn any marriage between one or more consenting adults.

frobert — September 27, 2011 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi at 3:55,

I grew up in Virginia and North Carolina in the 50s and early 60s. I saw some things that weren't right, and heard a whole lot more. George Rockwell and his American Nazi Party were quite active in the Arlington VA area when MLK was having his marches in DC.

So where did you grow up? Sounds like Dodge City or somewhere completely lawless!

roger — September 27, 2011 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm curious to know who's behind the Wall Street protests and what they think they'll accomplish. There aren't that many people there - perhaps a few hundred - but by now we should be hearing from a spokesperson about what they want and why we should join them. As near as I can see, the main coverage is about NYPD macing and beating a few women up.

And where is the international crowd that travels to all the G-number conferences - or at least the homegrown rowdies who raised hell in Seattle a while back? It seems to me they're missing a golden opportunity to get some real prime time coverage on arguably the biggest stage of them all.

roger — September 27, 2011 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- Sounds okay I suppose. One suffer all suffer! Do you believe inbreeding should be discouraged by any government entity? What is the age of consent that you would have? Is this a strong position in the conservative movement? If so it would explain much, to include the Bush family and those that voted for Dubya...twice! :))

nailingit — September 27, 2011 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


allen-

take it a step further. go to your bank(s) tomorrow and clear your accounts-take cash. If enough people do that, it will bring the captialists to their knees. Until then, we're just BSing each other. BTW, I've pulled all my money OUT of the markets and only leave enough money in my business account to operate. It is in/out only per transaction. Funny thing is, they've yet to complain. I refuse to pay any fees, and they actually buy off on that. They want your FREE money-as if they couldn't get it elsewhere. Seriously, we have to remove our money from their reach. If enough people do it, it'll make a difference. And never, never, carry a balance on credit cards. Cut these banksters off at the knees. I use several credit cards and never, ever pay interest or fees. Let the merchant accepting them eat it. If they offer a cash discount for not using plastic, take it. If not, stick them with the 2%(+/-) fee. It's their choice.

As for a general strike, I'm all for it.

mrd — September 27, 2011 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen, I use Onpoint. After the Washington Mutual screw-up, I went strictly credit union.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My account at OnPoint costs me NOTHING! Zero, Zip Zilch. The only thing they require is direct deposit and I wouldn't have it any other way. I can use the ATM at any credit union anywhere in the U.S. and it's free. Screw the banks, they rip everyone off and charge outrageous prices for NO service.

hawkeye — September 27, 2011 at 11:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We can make incremental changes or fundamental changes, but for fundamental changes to have lasting effect, to not be merely a flash in the pan, they have to proceed from a foundation of planning and organization. There are many young, idealistic souls looking for something better but they do not realize the power of the entrenched institutional forces, which can appear to be conquered, only to reappear in a different guise, which creates a circular, reversion effect. Our generation might only be able to lay the foundation for profound change, by providing a blueprint, which would be a Third Party espousing morality based capitalism. The Wall Street Occupiers don't have a plan, other than redistribute wealth.

mangoboy — September 28, 2011 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


morality based capitalism? We've seen the evolution of capitalism and it's anything but moral. The current stage of capitalism is to simply make money off money or thru the transactions of others. Production is a very distant second as a means of making money. Now that the capitalists have the government providing taxpayers' money to them virtually free of charge to work with, why would they change a thing? It would be easier to get politicians off the capitalists' strings, and that is pretty much impossible.

mrd — September 28, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Peace people. GaGa Rules! I love this woman.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, you "love" Lady Gaga or you love what she stands for???

..

I see nothing has changed on the C.

Alleycat...six feet under what??? A threat???

Sporty...not cool. Alley has as much right here on the forum as you or I do.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Stupid videos and a threat. What a way to start your day.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Exactly, Hawk. That's what ruins a fun discussion site more than anything else.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Report Says Vehicle Fuel Should Be the Priority, Not Electricity
By MATTHEW L. WALD

“Reliance on oil is the greatest immediate threat to U.S. economic and national security, and also contributes to the long-term threat of climate change,’’ its analysis, released on Tuesday morning, states.

The report emphasizes the need to replace oil rather than fuels like coal and natural gas, which are supplanted by electricity-generating solar and wind power. (There is very little oil used to generate electricity in the United States.)

And in the quest to replace oil, work on electric vehicles should be prioritized over alternative fuels, the study said.

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/transportation-fuel-challenge-dogs-the-u-s/

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A New Model to Bank On
With credit still tight around the country, support for new public state banks is growing.
BY DAVID MOBERG

Mahlon Vigesaa, president and CEO of CenterPointe Community Bank in the rural region of Hood River, Ore., has a different credit problem. There’s a promising wind power project in the bank’s service area that needs to borrow $6 million. A large out-of-state bank turned down the developer’s request, which Vigesaa would love to finance. But it’s too big for CenterPointe to do on its own.

“Big banks are not lending in small-town America,” says Barbara Dudley, co-chair of the Oregon Working Families Party. “They are either not lending or lending overseas,” thus slowing economic recovery and job creation.

North Dakota’s public option

But Dudley and a surprisingly diverse coalition — including bankers and businessmen like Houser and Vigesaa — see a solution to these two distinct but related credit failures: the creation of Oregon’s own state bank.

http://inthesetimes.org/article/11964/a_new_model_to_bank_on

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When will class war victims fight back?

Eventually, all the frustration, pent-up rage and seemingly endless suffering felt by the victims of the CEOs one-way class war will erupt. The potential for masss disorder in the streets of the United States is becoming apparent even to elite figures like New York's billionaire Mayor Michael Bloomberg:

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned today that public frustration over joblessness in the U.S. is in danger of boiling over and could lead to riots in the streets if the government fails to create more jobs.

“You have a lot of kids graduating college who can’t find jobs. That’s what happened in Cairo. That’s what happened in Madrid. You don’t want those kinds of riots here.”
Rep. Paul Ryan’s Class War
BY ROGER BYBEE

There is also an even larger number of young people who can't afford college who are seething with anger.

I’m sure that Paul Ryan and his allies also don’t want “those kinds of riots” taking place in Janesville, Racine, or anywhere else in the United States. Yet while prescribing austerity for the vast majority of his already-struggling constituents, Ryan has been leading a life marked by anything but fiscal discipline.

http://www.zcommunications.org/paul-ryans-class-war-by-roger-bybee

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 8:24...The way of the future. I hope we invest much in this area. It would be nice if America set the standard for auto's in the future, and manufactured them here.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 8:40 a.m.

Well, the 'green jobs' area is having a pretty good growth rate; but then we have the RW denial of environmental issues, the 'regulation is stifling' trope, the rw's false claims about government's role in boosting the economy (the FDR stuff, as one example), and the tax-cut pledgers all working against that.

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal...Our president seems to be showing much resolve, as of late, on progressive issues. I hope he uses his bully pulpit to lead in this area. His ozone standards retreat combined with the keystone decision...I wonder about this guy.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Very bad wreck this morning at the intersection of Mill Plain and 112th. As I went by at 5:05 am on my way to the airport I saw several police vehicles, fire truck washing the streets down, the investigation team was there measuring and roping the area off. The smell of gasoline and diesel was so thick it made my son and I both have breathing problems.
45 minutes later on return home, the police and the investigation team was still there. Stopped to have breakfast, we watched from the restaurant the teams working the area and they were still there when we left the restaurant at 7:30. lanes still blocked off. I hope whom ever was involved is ok, but from what my daughter, son and I saw it doesn't look good.

Have a good day all, my daughter and new grandbaby are here for a weeks visit. Going to have fun with my new little redhead and enjoy every moment of their visit.

ELISI — September 28, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9 a.m.

He has only retreated from ozone standards concerning his corporate donors, when it comes to banning lifesaving medication for the poor I am sure he will hold fast.

frobert — September 28, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


FYI:

Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction

What Do YOU Think?

http://murray.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/deficit-reduction

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That evil Obama! :)) At least we know "death panels" don't exist. Although if Ron Paul were to have his way, we would be entirely dependent on "charitable giving" when a person can't afford medical treatment. I'm really curious how staunch libertarians think life would pan out with Paul's advocation of destroying FEMA. Depending on "charitable giving" for disasters such as earthquake and hurricanes, when 10's of Billions of $$$ are required to restore. I'm sure the 'private companies' that vested themselves with assistance costs would expect nothing in return. :)).....and those on the right think liberals live in La La Land. :))

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK pussycat, were you ragging on me or squishyjammies? I couldn't tell.

Regardless, you were sounding like somewhat of a bully as well.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 9:18.........Everyone, please give your input. Right, left or in between. It's not multiple choice! It's not true or false! As long as this so-called super congress exists, Washington State is fortunate to have our own Patty Murray on board.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, so why is it that you keep calling me a bigot?

Oh, and your paranoia is getting the best of you, get help.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9 a.m.

A (or The) major issue on the left is the fracturing by multiple areas of concern which has prevented a unified Progressive voice.

Whereas the rw -esp exemplified by the tp - has tied economics to moral and flag-wrapping patriotism making a unified voice. Probably as much from the faux grassroots manipulation as anything.

So, on the left we have environmental issues not being shown how they are tied to corp legislation. We have foreign policy not being shown how it is tied to Eisenhower's warning. We have 'entitlement' being used as a pejorative; we have social justice being tied to socialism..... We have r candidates fighting for the uninformed denier and xian nation vote......

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 9:41 a.m.

What I wrote her:

Reduce our military budget to the average percent of GDP of the other world gov'ts ( Yes, remove our country before establishing that average)

Establish Plan E for everyone National Health Care.

Strengthen educational funding and programs supporting job training.

WPA / CCC style jobs programs focused on infrastructure - esp. toward developing effective renewable energy and power transmission.

Restore tax rates to pre-Reagan era.

Review special interest tax legislation.

Remove SS caps

Legislation to simplify establishing public banking.

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, now I understand. Unfortunately, you don't.

bigot [ˈbɪgət]
n.
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.

Since I have never actually listened to "her music", you can't call me that. You see, it's not that I am "intolerant" of her, I just don't like her and I'm allowed. It's called freedom of speech, which is guaranteed to me by the constitution of the United States of America.

If you don't like it, tough noogies.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*It's not multiple choice! It's not true or false!*

As I recall, that was the format on JHB's most recent mailing.

No space for the voter's own thoughts.

Just a couple of issues with the choices framed by rw tropes.

And you had to provide your own stamp.

Gee, wasn't there something about the Post Office......?

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Rather more inclusive, but too long for Gagaesque attention spans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epVZrY...

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh kittycat, I understand much more that you think. You see, the thing is, I quit living through the words of musical acts back about age 13 or so. But you keep listening, won't you? Just remember what Blue Oyster Cult told you, "Don't fear the Reaper".

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley, I understand your intolerance for the mind games SportyJames loves to induce on you as you allow yourself to nurture the negative advances, then you reciprocate with threats regarding going six feet under. Now I can honestly say, I didn't flag your comment because I felt it was best to leave it on display since others like myself had voiced our irritation by such a comment...but I noticed it has disappeared, Alleycat. Somebody was obviously recognizing it as a cyber threat and felt the need to eliminate the comment.

I'll be honest with you, Alley. Sporty used to get me steaming mad just by their one liners (yes, I can imagine you are cracking up right now, Sporty...haw, haw, haw. I know you like me, lol).

Alley, I know you are an independent person but just for once, hear me out on this and take this little bit of advice if you could. Just ignore the mind games Sporty is playing on you and stick to the program and get your word out. And Alley, don't degrade yourself with name calling either. You are showing emotional reactions which clouds the "facts" you speak. There is another poster who pointed out to me how easily the information I share can be clouded by my personal outbursts for which I humbly realize they were right (yes you, Nailingit).

You can listen to me or you can ignore what I share. Of anybody else on the forum, I think I can speak from experience regarding my emotional rants which have surfaced from time to time and the negative impact it has on my words. I'm still working on that, lol.

Just thought I'd provide my two cent's worth.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And as for you, Nailingit...

I saw your little comments on last week's forum which don't qualify for a response worthy of my time other than what I share right now, right here. Your little mind games don't help your cause either.

Maybe we all could work together on keeping the forum an enjoyable site with which we can share in discussion without feeling like someone's going to be on the attack from mind games. There's a limit to teasing...but when it becomes condescending personal attacks or threats, it isn't fun any more. I'm curbing my sarcasm. How 'bout the rest of you???

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alley, I guess you've chosen to ignore.

sigh...

.

Hawkeye, Alley has a point. Many songs carry messages like for instance... during the Vietnam War, many musicians fought the establishment through their songs like Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger. Now I'm not saying I'm a big fan of GaGa...in fact, she's irritating to me...but her messages are her way of getting her voice out just as you or I share our words on the Columbian as well as other websites. Just thought I'd say.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry kitty, some of us just grow out of it sooner or later, with me it was sooner. Apparently with you it's later, much later unless you are younger than I thought. I always suspected that you were in your 50s from your rants and incessant bragging about everything, but maybe not. Hard to believe you have done all that you have in 25 years or so.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, her music is aimed at the teen group and maybe a little older. It's just not my thing. I'm sure it's the same thing my parents thought about the Beatles when I was younger. She is off-putting to me because of the goofy outfits and actions. I think that if a person wants their music to speak to the masses, they should let it on it's own merit. You don't see any country music people putting on weird clothes and wigs, do you?

And an aside to you kitty, I will listen to some country music from time to time even though I don't really care for it, so the bigot thing, not so much.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, the very issues you have with Lady Gaga are the same I have with her as well....and I laugh to myself because of what you said about our parents and the Beatles...so true.

..

Alley, Sporty does the same to me and so do a couple of others. It isn't just an attack on you all alone...and it's just a play on words to mess with your thought processes in order to disrupt what messages you are trying to share with everyone. When it comes to statements like "will be six feet under" or "This is a small world and the likes like him wise up really fast after they are confronted..." these are borderline between just words and written threats and that's why they get removed, Alley.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Squishyjammies does the same thing to EVERYONE. The only reason he posts is to get a reaction, any reaction. If you ignore him, he will move on to someone else. Always has, always will.

Hey kitty, are you going to Jamie's job fair today?

Oh, I forgot, you AREN'T a Washington resident!

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 9:51...This administration has been awful on messaging. Just awful. One of my disappointments with the President/Dems is that they have allowed the right wing to control and shape the conversation. From union busting to the debt limit, progressives on the Hill, by and large have not had their voices heard. Something woke this sleeping giant up. I can't help but think, when he started having town halls after the debt ceiling debate, and confidence was/is in the basement, the expressions on the faces in the crowd had to be much different than say a year ago. The types of questions/criticisms he received while speaking with the citizenry. Maybe he does care. Maybe this helped shape his leadership. I'm almost willing to give him another chance.:)) @ 10:06...You have my vote!

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well I don't know about the rest of you, but that Autumn Sun is absolutely wonderful and I'm not going to waste any more time sitting on the computer. You all have a great afternoon. I've got some natural Vitamin D to absorb! See ya!

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One of my disappointments with the President/Dems is that they have allowed the right wing to control and shape the conversation.

You're damn right. Even Obama has refered to SS as an "entitlement", implying it's some sort of unpaid for, not earned benefit. Every April 14th, I cut a check for my SE tax-that's my SS-to the IRS. Getting a smaller portion of that money back from SS than I've paid in over a lifetime is some kind of entitlement??!!! This war of words was lost before it started.

mrd — September 28, 2011 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kinda fun watching Lew attempt to support D. Madore @ http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/sep/27/postal-workers-rally-outside-herrera-beutlers-offi

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lew's funny-sounds like a tea-bagger. I liked his analogy of UPS & FedEx to USPS. Too bad there isn't one.

Cut, cut, cut say the tea-baggers. Maybe they should take a looksee at how those austerity measures are working in Greece. But cut, cut & cut some more is simple. Must be why the baggers support it. It's the only scenario they can understand-just one little word.

mrd — September 28, 2011 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — September 28, 2011 at 12:46 p.m.

I'm having trouble believing that any of the prospective '08 Dem candidates couldn't give Obama a serious run for '12.

Especially given the the clown posse on offer from the right.

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd, you are aware that Greece is not run by Repubs, right??? Although they are the Hellenic Republic, their president is George Papandreou...a proud member of PASOK...the Panhellenic "*Socialist*" Movement.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you see sportyjames or any other user violating our community guidelines, hit the button below the comment to flag us. We'll take the appropriate action from there.

You can also click the "Ignore User" icon if you don't want to do that.

Matt Wastradowski — September 28, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 2:01...Edwards might be a little rough around the edges.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 2:28 p.m.

I wonder if they would do work release for that.

frobert — September 28, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd @ 12:46...With left-centrist issue positive poll numbers and public demonstrations taking place, I think more people are catching on. If those on the hard right would just stop reading GOP talking points, as well as stop listening to some of these right wing "carnival barking" profiteers that blur the lines on a daily basis, taking advantage of a weak minded constituency, it would help.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- LOL...once in awhile fro...you nail it!

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO
my comments weren't to reflect on political parties per se, simply economic policies. Having said that, however, I'm certainly no fan of the tea-baggers, as if you couldn't tell. They can wrap themselves with the Constitution, the flag, tea leaves, whatever, they're still way off target. Their so called populist movement has been kidnapped, but there is no ransom demand. Who want's 'em?

BS
my concern is really simple. as people tend to vote their pocketbooks, as the adage goes, Obama, whom will get the nod I'm sure, will take the backlash and someone out of the RW posse might win. That, coupled with the possibility of more tea-bag types in Congress is scary as hell.

Nail
as "elitist" as this may sound, I believe many in this country have picked a party they'll support and buy into their bs and go with it. A perfect example is that Lew guy (BTW, what the hell is a blogger?) on the fb side. Invariably, if Obama's name is in a headline, he's on it. Doesn't even matter if his proposals, as have happened a couple of times, are virtually identical to an earlier GOP policy/plan. That gridlocked mentality has existed so long now, public confidence in our government(s) is disappearing. I have little or no hope of any significant change until after the election, and little will change unless there are bulletproof majorities in the Congress, another scenario I'm not real fond of.

mrd — September 28, 2011 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 2:28 p.m.

Yeah, he has a 'few' negatives.......

But a Kucinich / Perry or Romney debate........

mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd...

I was just sharing some facts with you as well as everyone else so as not to confuse the matter with regards to political affiliation and a failed economy. If anybody checks out the history of Greece and how it came to be in the situation it's in right now, they would find it was more than one party that got them into the mess in the first place...compounded by hesitatingly joining the European Union and accepting the Euro as their currency.

BTW, I'm no fan of any political parties that take things to the extreme.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2011 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 4:24 p.m.

Kucinich vs Paul would be a great debate.

frobert — September 28, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd- I'm afraid you're right. My hope is that a % of those with bagger mindsets, the right wing voting zombies that pick up Limbaugh, Beck, etc. ( the weekend warrior's) won't vote next election with their skewed ideals as to what America should look like, but vote in the interest of their own survival. I'm an idealist at heart! :)) As for Lew...he used to post here often before FB. His quest for demonstrating unadulterated self-flagellation has no end! :))

mr_basil_seal @ 4:24...That would be good. Maybe Bernie Sanders or Russ Feingold...any progressive with a sense of purpose could destroy Perry (as if he needs help), Romney is pretty slick at times, the contrast between Kucinich and Romney's philosophy's (whatever flavor of the day Mitt would take) would be great and revealing, and like fro suggested, throw Paul in the mix.

We should have nationally televised debates throughout the year every year. The more informed we are as a people, the better off we'll be.

I strongly support a Jeopardy style format as a qualifier for candidates. Let the public see how much our elected officials are up on things. Imagine Sarah, Perry, W, Bachman and so many would most likely never get to the stage they've been placed on. Let the public see and decide in many venues, not just a few debates leading up to election day.

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 5:01 p.m.

That would be so much fun. Constitution for 200, Alex.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat from earlier today --

"The Vietnam war would have not ended if not for musicians like Dylan, Baez, Havens, Lennon and many, many others that influenced change in our nation."

Personally, I see their influence on ending the Vietnam war as minimal - mostly on the college kids who sat together in a dark dorm room with a wet towel blocking the door, incense burning, and passing around a joint or two of some low grade weed while listening to one of their albums. (Not to downplay Dylan - arguably among the greatest songwriters ever!!)

What ended the Vietnam war was the mothers of the soldiers who never came home, having died in a conflict no one could justify. It was the newscaster (Cronkite??) who, in response to Defense releases on the number of NVA/Cong dead, began telling our own casualties. It was the picture of the little girl running down the street after being burnt in a napalm airdrop. It was My Lai. And it was the returning war veterans, who spoke out in ever increasing numbers about the total insanity of what they encountered there.

At least, that's how I remember it.

roger — September 28, 2011 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat,

Please -

Go back to doing what you do well - making observations on how the corporate world owns our government and our nation. Some people like what you say, and some don't. But these rants against everyone who criticizes you don't make any sense. Paranoia doesn't go with the persona you project - just respond with a verbal kick in the teeth and get back on track.

roger — September 28, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Man, wherever GaGa go's, controversy is sure to follow! I've never been one to have a deep appreciation for pop music (although with much exception), for any genre. (an entree of late sixties-early seventies Pink Floyd, some Stones being exiled, then 'feed me some live Hendrix with a little Savoy Brown on the side, Josh Redman for dessert...i could go on & on!) By and large music associated with this category (Pop) imo tends to be shallow, self-serving and musically compromising. If you can dance to it, I tend not to be into it. I totally get it that many don't appreciate GaGa. From a standpoint of displaying wonderful musicianship the Lady is a special talent. So damn talented, real and downright inspirational at times. i.e. the video that alleycat posted, "The Edge of Glory". Beautiful tune, and downright inspirational. I love you GaGa! Grrrrr!

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"Fools" said I, "You do not know, Silence like a cancer grows.
Hear my words that I might teach you, Take my arms that I might reach you."
But my words like silent raindrops fell,
And echoed, In the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed, To the neon god they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning, In the words that it was forming.
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls." and whisper'd in the sounds of silence.

roger — September 28, 2011 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Or perhaps the true greatest rock guitarist from Texas - that albino junkie Johnny Winter.

roger — September 28, 2011 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I have just acquired a new respect for you. It doesn't get better than Johnny.

Johnny Winter And (Live) One of the best live albums produced...ever. From anybody!

nailingit — September 28, 2011 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Roger, I really liked that song. For me the music died when Harry Chapin died.

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 28, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. (Universal Declaration of Human Rights)

I can see quite a few items on the list I agree with, and a few I don't.

And nothing in here about RESPONSIBILITY.

If you build a house on a flawed foundation, the house will ultimately be flawed also.

mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Alleycat, here's my observation:

Stupid videos and a threat. What a way to start your day.
*hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.*

.

Stupid videos and a threat... I take issue with both...

First, you are a bigot...

Second, bullies sooner than later get justice served...by their own making and nobody lends them a hand...they find their own end...

A bully is a despicable being so insecure of himself that he/she/it has to resort to surprise baseless attacks because he/she/it can't stand that other people have goodness, compassion and love in their hearts. They know no love that is why they are that way. They hate themselves and they spread their hate to others...
*alleycat — September 28, 2011 at 8:19 a.m.*

Alleycat, do you not see that Hawkeye was just making HIS observation regarding what he had read first thing in the morning on the forum? He wasn't the only one who recognized what you had said was removed due to the fact that it was construed as a threat. Then you went on the attack, calling him a bigot. Is it so bad here that anybody who says anything you don't agree with, you have to resort to the expletive you said to me last week as well as calling people names like bigots and bullies?

Then Alleycat, you go on to say "One thing is criticism which I can handle and another is daily attacks with no substance but the thrill of the surprise attack." Alleycat, do you not see that you went on the attack against Hawkeye because of his observation? In the same post, you also stated "If you have a beef with me, bring it on, debate it or else, I can handle any level." Well sir, in a debate...namecalling is and expletives like you used towards me because I didn't agree with you is taboo.

Alley, you are not being slighted here on the C. In fact, Matt has given you every opportunity to play the game as directed in their terms of service yet you would rather play it your way and it doesn't work that way. This site is property of the Columbian and what they say...goes. Respect the rules or expect to be ousted or have your comments removed, Alley. That's just how it is. Sir, it is my OPINION that you are instigating the attacks that you later complain Matt is doing nothing about. I recognized in the past that I was doing the same thing. Yes, I admit my wrongdoings. Does that make me one of the meek? No, it makes me an even stronger person and more assertive in my statements.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


typo in last comment: Should read "Namecalling and expletives like you used towards me because..."

sorry about that.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — September 29, 2011 at 6:53 a.m.

Tell us something we don't already know, Alleycat. First step is eliminating your dependence on financial institutions, secondly...dependence on your government. Now the million-dollar question for many is....

HOW???

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So...in effect....you are an anarchist who refuses to follow the system, Alleycat. Why do you bother coming onto a website with obvious rules to follow when it is obvious you have no intention of playing by the rules???

I hate to break it to ya, Alley...but you will most likely be the first one to go because of your expletives and your personal attacks. Bear in mind Alley, I am not trying to throw in attacks at you. I'm just trying to understand why you continue down the same course of self destruction by responding to the people who you claim are bullying you...in the manner that you do? It's almost a self destruction mode...virtually speaking of course.

Alley, you do have excellent points you share on the forum. I find it disconcerting that you allow yourself to be swayed away from the subject to deal with comments that bother you. Like that video of Michael Moore...great one to bring to attention, Alley. Your statement was definitely an eye opener which sparked my curiosity. Since you obviously won't ignore users or suggest removal...then by all means, just ignore. They're going to keep doing what they're doing to force you away. If you don't respond, they won't continue...or if they do, it'll just be words with no meaning to most of us. Instead Alley...come back not with a response to the comments...but with a video or something in the news that you recognize as pertinent information.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay Alley, now you're really cooking with your comment at 7:10. I couldn't agree more!!! Even if I didn't agree...you're providing the options. Nice one, Alley. I've got to step away from the computer for awhile but I will be back to respond to the discussion should you have anything else you care to share.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 6:29 a.m.

That it is our responsibility to make sure government doesn't step on those universal rights is a given.

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, it really doesn't matter if snitching is looked down on in your subculture. I can't read every last word on this forum every single day. No one can. I do the best that I can with the time that I have, and I rely on the good posters of this forum to alert me when folks are out of line.

If you really want a decent community here free of personal attacks and full of substantial discussions, you'll step up to the plate and start flagging inappropriate posts. As will any other poster who complains about the discussions here. Simple as that. You can't engage posters who are breaking the rules and then turn around and blame me for whatever it is you're blaming me for. You just can't have it both ways.

Matt Wastradowski — September 29, 2011 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, your "snitching" argument falls apart when I suggest using the "ignore" feature. That's a valid option, too.

Matt Wastradowski — September 29, 2011 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt @ 8:24..."I can't read every last word on this forum every single day. No one can."

LOL!!! Well stated Matt! I appreciate your way with words! I can't either!

alleycat..If you would quit making yourself out to be a victim, it would go a long way. Just sayin'.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting... on page C2, of the dead tree 'C' version, there's a rather large photo and an article. The title of the article is, *Oregon woman 1 of 4 feds allow to use pot*.

I can't find it in this here e-version.

I was looking forward to reading the comments.

Drift — September 29, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Stupid videos and a threat. What a way to start your day."

hawkeye — September 28, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.

**And then YOU called me a bigot**

"When I defended myself against hawk, crazytrain, soul pancake, elisi and others was with facts.

One must wonder, why I get attacked so much?"

alleycat — September 29, 2011 at 7:28 a.m

**How is it I attacked you, again?**

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Re: the "dream debates" in yesterday's posting....

It is early days yet, but it seems it will be a Obama / Romney funfest according to Fox:

"But while Romney, Huntsman, Cain, and Gingrich all have something to smile about when it comes to their position among Republicans, the country at large is not impressed with them: **58% of the full sample (in other words, not just Republicans, but also Democrats and independents) say they are not impressed with the GOP field.**

In the poll, President Obama leads both Romney and Perry, Romney by a 45%-42% margin and Perry by a 47%-39% margin. Just 32% of those surveyed said they thought President Obama's campaign message was designed to drive people apart — 56% said it was designed to unify the country. As Greg Sargent points out, so much for Fox's class warfare push."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/29/1021253/-Fox-poll:-Romney-in-first-as-Perry-stumbles,-Cain-and-Gingrich-surge,-Obama-leads-them-all?via=blog_1

And Paul is a 6%

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, 37 minutes; more than 10x longer than Gaga...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v;=rSYSXm5k5uk

http://justforeignpolicy.org/

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat — September 29, 2011 at 9:27 a.m

Wow, what a tough guy. You're like a John Wayne wanna be, that is if John Wayne wasn't gay ---- or not.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 9:12..Knowing the tough fight to "take our country back" was ahead of them, you would think they could have come up with someone, somewhere, that was credible, and serves the "proper" Christian God. Given who the GOP VP candidate was in 08', as well as the great intellect and wisdom of Dubya, for eight long years, the Republican party is once again, unintentionally giving credence and causing much thought in the direction of a more diverse party system. It would be nice to have a four or five viable party system. Imo. We have to change something. A responsible vetting process would help. I suppose the Baggers would decry..."too much government oversight and regulation".

What about a litmus test that would involve some sort of rational thought and more than a basic understanding of our constitution.

More public vetting! A longer process! Alex, I'll take abject failures 2000-2008 for $1000 please.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 9:44 a.m.

Or just our version of the Pirate Party:

"It's an amateur mistake, but the young party is honest about their growing pains. "Of course we are amateurs," said lead candidate Andreas Baum. "It would be senseless to deny it." It doesn't seem to matter that his press representative doesn't know her mobile phone number and has no business cards yet. "We are visionary, but practical," he adds.

But it was precisely this approach that proved successful for the Pirate Party. Their humorous campaign posters, with slogans like "Privatize religion," were the work of party members, not an advertising company. All of the city-state's some 1,000 members were encouraged to take part."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,787044,00.html

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat, you have railed for 2 years now claiming to be a Libertarian. Here is the Libertarian platform for your reading pleasure. Please note that nowhere do you find a requirement for others to do for you, in fact all the planks are just the opposite.

http://www.lp.org/platform

As in our Preamble to the Constitution,
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

'Pursuit' is the critical word, this does not mean guarantee of outcome. Inalienable rights do not require anyone to do anything for you. There is no right to a job, food, housing, transportation, cable TV, or spending money for Mississippi Ave.

Government provides no jobs, it is a detriment to job production. You would think by now, after 80 years of these failed programs this would begin to sink in. And for those that believe they've been paying into their own SS account to withdraw at retirement I recommend reading the definition once more of PONZI SCHEME. Your money was spent as fast as it went in.

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

Rightwing_Extremist — September 29, 2011 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alley- A couple of months or so ago, I conducted a Psych Eval to another avatar that posts here (goldenoldie, please hold your unrelenting fury at bay concerning this. Not to worry, I have a strong confidentiality policy, sort of) and the results were extraordinary, although achieved projected expectations. If you would like, I can set aside a time this afternoon. If you are comfortable with the use of 'hypnotherapy', I believe it could be a tremendous aid.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 9:54...Kinda reminds me of the 2010 election, but happening in some parallel universe. Sometimes the German voting acumen rivals our own!

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yet another 10x longer than Gaga; ........ but an effective message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeV26P...

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So, now I'm "homophobic by innuendo" and a "bigot".

How else are you going to slander/attack me?

You really are some piece of work. Too bad you can't actually apply yourself instead of bragging about how amazing you are on this forum.

So much BS, so little time.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


alley, you've also lost your sense of humor. Displaced anxiety is a start. Ponder this and I'll lock you in for 1:45 this afternoon. Please try to be relaxed and thoughtful. It will help to ensure a clear eval.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:12 a.m.

"And Paul is a 6%"

You're quoting a Fox News poll as fact?

Now, that's funny.

Here is an independent poll.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/870/Default.aspx

frobert — September 29, 2011 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


1:45 ?????

I thought I had 1:45.

Oh wait, that's Saturday at the bar isn't it?

My bad.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 9:58 a.m

LOL, no offense taken, although I am curious as to the professional background you possess which would make you an "expert" regarding psych evaluations on anonymous writers who clearly have creative writing experience in their backgrounds.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Crazytrain...watch those "oldie moldies" jokes. People have called me that nickname several times in the past and being a grannie between the ages of 50 and 60, us grannies might find that to be a bit of an insult. (sarcasm ended).

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You're right, Crazytrain. Some of us are "Classics"...better than ever.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 10:35...LOL! That's either starting a bit early, or way late...either way, sounds good to me!

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 10:36 "...psych evaluations on anonymous writers who clearly have creative writing experience in their background." A poorly disguised plea for help with avatarial dissociative identity disorder? :)) Always here to help. Why it could turn into a wildfire of sorts...first come the realities, then we'll deal with the intricacies and by products of "Multiple Avatarial Identity Doldrums Syndrome. Commonly referred to as MAIDS.

I have a slot open this Sunday after "Face The Nation" is over. Flip me a line.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 29, 2011 at 10:34 a.m.

"..surveyed online between September 12 and 19,"

And you do realize that a 'by invite' database of responders doesn't meet the smell test for a representative sample, right?

And we won't even go into the reward system Harris uses for online surveys.

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Avatarial dissociative identity disorder??? Oh, now that's a knee slapper, Nailingit!!! I'm smiling from that one. MAIDS??? Even better. Love it when your clever talking points shine!!!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Crazytrain...nice comeback although some wine turns to vinegar, lol.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

compare the authors of the universal declaration of human rights to the authors of the declaration of independence. The former is probably a Democrat PHD holder who knows lots of theories but has never lived them.

mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 10:57 a.m

It all depends on when "your" game is on.

Red Robin....... YUMMMMMM

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And with the knowledge and wisdom you gain by your elders, you will soon learn that the vinegar you are stuck with...when allowed to process over time...can become a valuable commodity as well. Kind of like the lemons to lemonade thought.

And yes, my glass is always half full. Our nation has survived many downturns...this recent one as quite a memorable downturn...but we are resilient. We overcome every obstacle only to come out stronger. I'm not saying the economy will bounce back to what we've experienced over the past 20 years...but we acclimate to whatever is thrown at us. Yes, it's a rough road for many as it has over the past 90+ years, but I truly believe this is a major economic adjustment which is well over due. Is it our new norm??? I think it is. Whoever has lost their homes, their businesses, their livelihoods and have had to take on poverty-level wages...

it's not the end for them. They just have a harder struggle than most others but they can do it. Now the issue is reaching deep into their creative minds and build from them. Hawkeye mentioned a toothpaste tube roller designed by a local entrepreneur. It doesn't sound like much, but the person is realizing a dream rather than sitting back and dwelling on the have nots. I don't know if they'll strike it rich, but it's definitely a strike in favor of ingenuity. And CrazyTrain, I'm hearing of other folks whose creativity and ingenuity has put them on the right road. It can be done, but if everyone tries to throw in the towel and gives up...then our nation as a whole is at a loss. That vinegar??? I'd recommend finding the path to making a fine bottle of Balsamic Vinegar...lemons to lemonade.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


oooh!!! Red Robin??? Which one?

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye-Red Robin sounds goood!

alley- If it's okay I'm going to push the time ahead, to a little past two. Non-response will be taken as "okay". Thanks

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- Your case is a bit more complex than the cats (please don't take that as a positive or a negative), I could try doing a twofer if interested. Looking at my case files, I've noticed that I decided against hypnotherapy in our first session. We could do this in a joint session (but I prefer that you think clearly without munchie distraction), or save it till Sunday.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 1:19 p.m.
*".. probably a Democrat PHD holder.."*

The principal writer, John Peters Humphrey, was a Canadian. With a Masters in Law.

Eleanor Roosevelt and others from several other countries were also involved in the drafting of the document.

And I'm not so sure you could make a really strong, compelling case that the authors of the Declaration of Independence ( or even the Constitution) were not as well educated. Or had much experience in what they were doing in crafting a government based on philosophical works that hadn't yet been put into practice.

And don't forget, you said, "I can see quite a few items on the list I agree with"

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 8:45 a.m. --

It's The Oregonian, but a few of the comments are entertaining. Nowhere near what Lew, Jessica, and others would provide, however.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/09/us_government_provides_marijua.html

roger — September 29, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well let's see. Last night I had a very nice date night with my lovely wife at the Red Robin by the mall (my favorite, not as noisy as others) and tried the new "Oktoberfest burger". It was great, not enough horsey sauce for me but otherwise fine. Along with that I enjoyed a dirty beer (Hefeweizen) with lemon. All in all a great evening.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Feral Cat Coalition of Oregon neuters Oscar, the 50,000th cat sterilized at clinic"

Doctor Nailingit's work?

roger — September 29, 2011 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 1:36 p.m

LOL

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OMG Roger...too funny!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, have you two tried the one at Cascade Station? It's good too...if you want a change of scenery (watching the airplanes on top of good conversation and good eats). Good to hear you and your wife had a nice evening out together. I enjoy it when my husband and I share "our" time as well.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2011 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rep Jim Moeller, from a Tuesday article on state Dems seeking a special session on holding a special election for taxes. Needless to say, this wasn't received too well by our facebook commenters. Jim jumped in to explain his position, and was told by someone to start hunting for another job. His response:

"Mr. Anderson: I welcome the election next year! You and your conservative ilk will be swept away like the 1930's. Your austerity drumbeat will be thrown-back into the trash-heap of history. Together with the American people, we will restore this country to it's democratic principles that put PEOPLE instead of profits first. That require the very wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share of taxes and provide a basic safety net for the poor, disabled or Americans in their old age. It is corporate greed, not spending that brought us to this point through a economic plan that is based on a 30 year lie - that unregulated markets and lower taxes will create prosperity. I completely and utterly reject that idea as you will realize the majority of this country does also on election day."

I often disagree with Rep Moeller and his apparent willingness to raise taxes for any and everything, but I do like this "back at you too, a-hole!!" response of his.

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, Matt. Should I Ignore myself?

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) -- Washington's minimum wage for next year will likely climb to over $9 an hour when the figure is announced Friday by the state Department of Labor and Industries. The wage is adjusted each year for inflation as measured by the Consumer Price Index for the past 12 months, which is up more than 4 percent. Washington current minimum wage is $8.67 an hour, the highest in the nation. The new minimum will take effect in January.

Well, at least someone will get a cost of living increase. I remember when I made the minimum wage of $2.30 per hour, and I was able to pay rent and drive a car. But back then our Dollar was worth something.

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 8:45,

Here's The Columbian's abbreviated version of the Oregon pot lady. It was in the Northwest section, which doesn't get looked at by the facebook group if the lack of commenting is an indicator.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/se...

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat- I will lend you the courtesy of giving me a thumbs up if you wish to proceed on this matter. Sometimes this type of therapy can feel invasive, although the only penetration that happens is with the mind. I have created a device that transmits the thoughts/repressed memories of (fill in avatar), to my home computer, via the Columbian forum. These said thoughts are then captured where my avatar normally appears. This process takes place when (fill in avatar) is under hypnosis, and open to suggestion. Sometimes it can be an embarrassing process depending on the subject matter. I'm sure you would be fine. I call this process ii, or II, 11, not to be confused with he number 1. That's why I might call i...anyway. It stands for Isolated Intuition, or isolated intuition. Not 1solate...anyway. You game?

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LAKEWOOD, Wash. (AP) -- Western State Hospital may release 150 elderly patients with dementia as it plans to eliminate 220 jobs to cut costs. The News Tribune reports (http://bit.ly/rpKBnf ) many of the patients have histories of punching, kicking and scratching caregivers and it would be difficult to place them in nursing homes.

Hmmm... Is it safe to say that when one of these folks causes a problem, the cries will start that these weren't the state employee jobs cuts we wanted?

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 2:48...I'm sure they will find their way to the forum! :))

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Wouldn't the tin foil cap be easier? Or are you planning on filing some outrageous medical claims? And I hope you got these tests pre-approved.

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

This is wrong. Matt needs to suspend both of us.

roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Roger.
I looked at the NW section, back two days (according to the website's dating) and didn't see it. Funny it would be to the back of the e-version when it was C2 in the dead tree.

Drift — September 29, 2011 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, and I did look at the Oregonian's comments. Thanks, again!

Drift — September 29, 2011 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just noticed this article on The Columbian's news page that was posted this morning --

"Americans for Prosperity, a Tea Party-affiliated political fundraising organization, will launch a national “Cut Spending Now” tour Tuesday with a rally in Vancouver’s Esther Short Park. The organization chose Washington to launch its tour because it’s the home of Democratic Sen. Patty Murray, co-chairman of the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, also known as the supercommittee. Tuesday’s rally will begin at 6:30 p.m. with speeches at the Esther Short Park Pavilion. Activists will have an opportunity to sign a petition calling on the government to cut spending."

This just might be a fun show, especially if a crowd of anti-Baggers shows up!!! I wonder if Bob Larimer will be one of the speakers? He'll put those mean-spirited Libs in their places!

roger — September 29, 2011 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 29, 2011 at 2:48 p.m.

The first ones released should be parents of tea party members.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 2:54..sigh...I agree. But for how long?

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, we have not been to that one, it sounds great. I think we will have to go..... soon.

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Certainly a limited time frame.....unless

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 2:52..the device is partially bio engineered. A laptop and talking out my a..anyway.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NEW YORK (AP) -- Will a monthly debit card fee soon be the norm? Bank of America said Thursday that it plans to start charging a $5 monthly fee when customers make debit card purchases. The fee will be rolled out starting early next year.

Paying to use a debit card was unheard of before this year and is still a novel concept for many consumers. But several banks have recently introduced or started testing debit card fees. That's in addition to the spate of other unwelcome changes checking account customers have seen in the past year.

Bank of America's announcement carries added weight because it is the largest U.S. bank by deposits.

The fee will apply to basic accounts, which are marketed toward those with modest balances, and will be in addition to any existing monthly service fees. For example, one such account charges a $12 monthly fee unless customers meet certain conditions, such as maintaining a minimum average balance of $1,500.

**I see a mass removal of funds from BofA soon. Remember the credit unions. **

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They opened a Famous Daves in Cascade Station over the summer. Definitely one of the best ribs and pulled pork joints I've seen on the Left Coast.

roger — September 29, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


[http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/se...][1]

Mr. Patton,

You post under your own name on FB. I do not. I will respect that difference and make no condescending remarks.

You have posted a quote from one, Ben Norris, about Ronald Reagan’s reference to the “welfare queen”. I have no specific knowledge of this incident, but a quick Google search has shown that the Welfare Queen was convicted, in 1983, of defrauding $377,000 from welfare, not the $8,000 that Mr. Norris claimed. [http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-22/news/mn-1219_1_welfare-fraud][2]

You might also note, that Mr. Norris, HAS NOT CITED a source for his above referenced allegation.

You got that 'information’ from an “article” in: [http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2011/05/abuse-allegations-continue-despite-lack-of-clear-welfare-fraud-statistics/][3]

And just who is “Topsecretwriters”?

Here is a primer:

- Ryan Dube – Ryan founded Top Secret Writers in 2009, in an effort to explore his interest in spy gadgets…
- Jim Melvin – Jim Melvin is a songwriter and musician, trained in Culinary Arts and a self-termed “Politically loaded, independent conspiracy theorist.” Jim writes and plays for the Royal Kush Band, a politically loaded 420 band playing funk, blues, reggae and hip hop.
- Mark Dorr – Mark Dorr grew up the son of a treasure hunter searching for lost cities and treasures from an early age. His experiences and education led to working internationally in a variety of unique situations.
- WC (China Correspondent) – WC is an American citizen living and working in China. A seasoned professional whose career has taken him across three continents, he brings TSW readers a wealth of knowledge and experience in international affairs, culture and business. Since he is living and working in the PRC, we feel it is prudent to withhold his personal information at this time.

And of course:

- Daz Smith - From a very early age, with a lifelong interest in the paranormal, Daz trained for many years in classical psychic techniques including clairvoyance, mediumship, healing, meditation, divination and many other forms of psychic interpretation.

[http://www.topsecretwriters.com/about/][4]

Such sound sources of information. No doubt from high information voters.

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/se...
[2]: http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-22/news/mn-1219_1_welfare-fraud
[3]: http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2011/05/abuse-allegations-continue-despite-lack-of-clear-welfare-fraud-statistics/
[4]: http://www.topsecretwriters.com/about/

kn_dalai — September 29, 2011 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have not had much to say over the past several days, but want to share this idea:

ELIZABETH WARREN FOR PRESIDENT!

The best 2 minute video I have watched in a looooong time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2us...

manthou — September 29, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 29, 2011 at 6:15 p.m

Sounds right to me!

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Democratic lawmakers have called for a Federal investigation into Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's finances alleging non-disclosure! Remember the controversy brewing a few months back and a certain poster demanding "justice", God listens to prayer! Man! This wouldn't happen unless Obama signed off on it. I don't know exactly what happened with our Pres, but I'm liking it!

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 6:36 p.m

Thomas is the only Justice that actually follows the Constitution, and you want him gone. I guess that shows where liberal priorities are.

frobert — September 29, 2011 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- There seems to be sufficient evidence to call for a Federal investigation, to include allegations his teabagger wife made more than $700,000 from the GOP think tank, The Heritage Foundation, over a four year period and never claimed said income on his taxes. I bet this is the tip of the iceberg.

If you feel there is only one Justice who follows the constitution, and this "Justice" turns out to be a tax cheat, perhaps you should re-evaluate your understanding of said document. :))

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**And in International news ---**

[Reuters] - The News of the World newspaper bought contact details about the royal family from a policeman, the BBC reported Monday, deepening the scandal engulfing the News Corp media empire.

Kinda makes you wonder how FOX does it, huh?

hawkeye — September 29, 2011 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d @ 5:33...

Mr. Patton,

You post under your own name on FB. I do not. I will respect that difference and make no condescending remarks.

Your kn_dness and consideration does not go unnoticed by some. Yes. A genuine Peach!

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 29, 2011 at 7:40 p.m

You would have to read his concurrent opinions on issues like marijuana and gun control. They show a devotion to the Constitution unlike any Justice in recent years.

Also you keep saying he is a tax cheat, all I see is that his wife didn't disclose her income on court disclosure forms. I would be inclined to believe that under the 4th amendment. her income is her business and the government has no authority to require it. Yes Clarence took an oath, but Ginni did not.

frobert — September 29, 2011 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 6:58 p.m.

Will you now be calling for the investigation as to how the usurper in chief appointed two justices to that same court? Mind you, even his own supplied documentation proves this. Please spare me the 14th Amendment speech as it only addresses whether or not someone is a citizen.

Rightwing_Extremist — September 29, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL!

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You have to appreciate the die hard birthers, they represent the GOP mindset so well.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What ever happened to "compassionate conservatism". God fearing people that paid less attention to politics, and focused on the message of Christianity. Does it still exist? Or is it dying with the implosion of capitalism?

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:34 p.m.

GOP? Not hardly, try The Constitution.

Rightwing_Extremist — September 29, 2011 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 8:51 p.m.

You along with the other kool-aid drinkers are lost. Implosion of capitalism? We haven't had capitalism in a long time. Take a watch of this academic idiot compared to someone not on the public dole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mANOqc...

Rightwing_Extremist — September 29, 2011 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 8:19...you are sounding a bit "Clintonesque", don't you think? You put your name to a document and you own it. It's a bit troubling that you immediately come to his defense. I would hope you don't want someone as incompetent and arrogant as Justice Thomas in his current position if the charges prove to be true. He's been pandering to the corporations and bagger movement for years. His behavior as a Justice has been outrageous, his opinions whatever the wife wants, and his lack of partiality fly's in the face of the position that he was appointed to.

These lifetime appointments should stop. Anybody can be bought and paid for, and you can't do a damn thing about it. Props to the Dems for outing this alleged Piece of Crap. Integrity. fro, if your rational and justifications represent the GOP/baggers, it explains much.

nailingit — September 29, 2011 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"crafting a government based on philosophical works that hadn't yet been put into practice..." (Basil)

It is very difficult for me to compare a revolutionary document like the Declaration of Independence with a commission of intellectuals who copied many of the ideas within the Human Rights Declaration, and added in as many niceties as they could think of. Every one should have the right to freely travel between countries? What about convicted felons on parole, terrorists, traffickers? What about everyone has the right to reliable public transportation? Its just idealistic rambling in a sense. And what about rights that must be earned? Is it all supposed to be handed to you on a silver platter?

mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — September 29, 2011 at 9:36 p.m. *commission of intellectuals who copied many of the ideas*

As opposed to the college educated writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution who used existing political theory to inform their thinking and writing of those documents?

What are "rights that must be earned"?

Would that be like women 'earning' the right to vote because it took the activism of hundreds, thousands, millions, to correct a wrong?

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 29, 2011 at 5:33 p.m.

Ummmm, there are some discrepancies in your 'takedown'. You might want to check your dates and cities.

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 29, 2011 at 8:19 p.m.

So, a couple of days ago, the 'proof' was in the Congressional Record. A rather vague term and one you couldn't seem to be bothered with providing any examples from.

Today it is " read his concurrent opinions on issues like"

without a single citation.

And a couple of days ago you also wanted us to prove you don't prove any of your claims.

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 10:10 p.m

You're becoming a joke.

frobert — September 29, 2011 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 29, 2011 at 10:13 p.m.

Today it is " read his concurrent opinions on issues like"

without a single citation.

And a couple of days ago you also wanted us to prove you don't prove any of your claims.

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 12:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 10:04 p.m.

Ummmm, perhaps you could be more specific.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2011 at 5:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Would that be like women 'earning' the right to vote because it took the activism of hundreds, thousands, millions, to correct a wrong?

mr_basil_seal — September 29, 2011 at 9:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

No. Its getting back to responsibilities. Not just to monitor government and make sure it is doing its job, but responsibility each member of "society" has as a human being to care for the well being of others. Not to be enforced by regulation or penalty, but by a basic humanistic value code.

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 5:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


morality based capitalism? We've seen the evolution of capitalism and it's anything but moral. The current stage of capitalism is to simply make money off money or thru the transactions of others. Production is a very distant second as a means of making money. Now that the capitalists have the government providing taxpayers' money to them virtually free of charge to work with, why would they change a thing? It would be easier to get politicians off the capitalists' strings, and that is pretty much impossible.

mrd — September 28, 2011 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

MRD-"Morality based Capitalism" has already been partially implemented in the form of regulation. Regulation has acquired many negative connotations, in many instances justifiably so, so I avoid the term.

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, all!

Mr. Basil Seal, I am directing this link (courtesy of KATU and Associated press) to you as parallels the information you have shared time and time again regarding our climate. I believe everybody should take the time out to read this:

http://www.katu.com/news/national/130824413.html

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...as *it* parallels...

sorry about that typo.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2011 at 5:16 a.m.

Reagan's "welfare queen" had already been caught.

Reagan's "welfare Queen" was in Chicago.

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 7:14 a.m.

How do you know this?

kn_dalai — September 30, 2011 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On Friday, the group, which included Oregon's lone Republican congressman, Greg Walden, was ushered into the restaurant through a back door. They began their meal, LeBlanc said, with two orders each of the truffled french fries with crab and the "Grand Ringsider" seafood platter with shrimp, mussels, oysters, crab legs and a whole lobster (the latter a fully loaded, $105 item).

(Dinner at Portlands Ringside as reported in the Oregonian)

John Boehner likes everyone else to cut expenses except himself and the stupid rich? Or maybe this was just a once in a greaaaat while splurge....

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The video link provided by RWE was interesting. It was amusing to watch a very rich guy telling Congress if government would get off his back, he could make more money. And predictively, he then dangled the job carrot in front of the donkies. It's time to ask these rich folks how many jobs they've created with Obama's tax cuts-they're his cuts now, not Bush's.

Schiff was spot on with his take on government at all levels, along with insurance and liability costs limiting hiring. My business succeeds for that very reason. In this uncertain economy, why hire if you're not sure you'll have work to provide and profit from, six months or even weeks down the road? So many sub it out to people like me. It's very expensive to hire someone due to insurance, benefits, taxes, and on and on. If you perform public work, the paperwork for a Certified Public Payroll is daunting and is guaranteed to hold up your money at some point.

But, to the intent of this post, er sorta, to believe capitalism is dead requies one to believe Wall Street and it's far reaching powers don't exist.

mrd — September 30, 2011 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 6:14 a.m.
&
Allen — September 30, 2011 at 6:55 a.m.

Pretty amazing what the deniers attempt to deny.....

See also, http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

and

http://greenland2011.cryocity.org/

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/30/140944826/alaska-town-leaves-u-s-chamber-citing-politics

and

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/27/329776/the-denier-industrial-complexs-molehill-to-mountain-machine-how-conservatives-beat-progressives-at-messaging/

James Hanson: "It is time for all of us to get Tea-Party-angry about what our political system has become and about the intergenerational injustice being perpetrated on young people."

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2011 at 7:21 a.m.

http://www.nhi.org/online/issues/135/reagan.html

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0614FB395910728DDDAC0994DA405B868BF1D3
(also available through Library / Proquest)

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Markets Can Be Very, Very Wrong
Paul Krugman

...the cost imposed on society by air pollution, and allocate it across industries. The costs being calculated, by the way, don’t include the long-run threat of climate change; they’re focused on measurable impacts of pollution on health and productivity, with the most important effects involving how pollutants — especially small particulates — affect human health, and use standard valuations on mortality and morbidity to turn these into dollars.

Even with this restricted vision of costs, they find that the costs of air pollution are big, and heavily concentrated in a few industries. In fact, there are a number of industries that inflict more damage in the form of air pollution than the value-added by these industries at market prices.

It’s important to be clear about what this means. It does not necessarily say that we should end the use of coal-generated electricity. What it says, instead, is that consumers are paying much too low a price for coal-generated electricity, because the price they pay does not take account of the very large external costs associated with generation. If consumers did have to pay the full cost, they would use much less electricity from coal — maybe none, but that would depend on the alternatives.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/markets-can-be-very-very-wrong/

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal



OccupyWallStreet

From another **New Bottom Line action in Washington State:**
At sunrise, each member of the Association of Washington Business Policy Summit received a call in their plush suite at Suncadia. When they picked up the phone, this is the message they heard:
“Good morning! This is a wake up call. While Wall Street Bankers, corporate CEOs and their lobbyists go to wine tastings, play golf and plot how to maintain special interest tax breaks, middle class and poor families are struggling to make ends meet. Today, you will notice hundreds of community members here to protest at the Showdown at Suncadia. Our message: It’s time Wall Street Banks and wealthy CEOs pay their fair share.”

http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/scenes-from-the-streets/

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Military Chaplains Can Now Officiate Same-Sex Weddings

ADAM MARTIN

It didn't take long after the repeal of Ask Don't Tell for the U.S. military to settle its policy on whether it will hold same-sex weddings. Ten days after the ban on gay soldiers serving openly was lifted, the Pentagon says chaplains can officiate same-sex marriages if they don't go against the chaplain's own belief. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/09/military-chaplains-can-now-officiate-same-sex-weddings/43165/

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 4:24 a.m.

Can you cite any reliable source that he cheated on his taxes?

PS liberal blogs are not a reliable source.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 7:57 a.m.

You will note that the LTTE writer references Ben Norris. I have provided a link to that site. You will note that Topsecretwriters.com Ben Norris has provided the name of Dorothy Woods and goes on to write that she received $8,000 in scam money.

This CONTADICTS your nhi.org link in which the author says ” Journalists searched for this “welfare cheat” in the hopes of interviewing her and discovered that she didn’t exist.” The author of this piece offers no other sources. As an aside, the author also states “The imagery of “welfare cheats” that persists to this day helped lay the groundwork for the 1996 welfare reform law, pushed by Republicans and signed by President Clinton.” Perhaps Professor Dreier has forgotten of candidate Clinton’s 1992 campaign pledge to “end welfare as we know it”.

Topsecretwriter Ben Norris, provided no source. I have provided a link to the L.A. Times article, which does discuss the scammer named Dorothy Woods, of Los Angeles.

Your link to the NY Times requires a payment, which I will not do. I must confess, I have been unable to find this article on the Proquest site.

In any event, with no source, and contradictory “information”, Topsecretwriter Ben Norris’ write must be viewed suspiciously, at best. Your links have done nothing to clear the matter up, nor does it negate the story of welfare scammer Dorothy Woods of L.A.

Of course, there may be another possibility. I have long suspected that Topsecretwriter Ben Norris, is in actuality, secret agent man Maxwell Smart. He may have planted a fake story in the L.A. Times, and has kept his top secret source…top secret, by programming the true source in his shoe phone, which only he, along with agent 99, know the codeword to.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2011 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 12:20 a.m

United States v Lopez

MacDonald v Chicago

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.

A Supreme court case is a citation, and it is much better than any link to a blog.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.

Your Clarence Thomas "income tax cheat" claim is an outright lie, without any factual basis. You really should stop getting your "facts" from liberal blogs.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:25 a.m.

You are the one making the outrageous claim that he is a tax cheat, and you expect me to prove he isn't?

What major newspapers are claiming he is?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:36 a.m.

I thought so, you can't support your argument.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 9:39 a.m

That story is concerning his financial disclosure, not income tax as Allen is claiming. I agree that he did not disclose his wife's income on the financial disclosure forms.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK Fro, I can understand missing one year on the form but 13 years? Not cool.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:48 a.m.

Those financial disclosure forms are for the Court, not the IRS, it has nothing at all to do with taxes. I can't try that because I do not hold a seat on the high court. To knowingly falsify financial disclosure forms is a civil infraction, much like a traffic ticket. Stop getting your "facts" from liberal blogs.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 9:51 a.m.

If they do not file a joint return, it could be reasonable to conclude that her income is none of the courts business.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to worry fro, nothing will happen. He'll amend his tax returns and your hero for justice won't miss a beat. It should be noted that charges concerning this slimeball (who attends private meetings with the Koch Bros. and other GOP big gun donors) seems to be fact. He lied on his tax forms to conceal hundreds of thousands of dollars, this corrupt piece of crap is shaping the law of the land. You or I do that and we would be destroyed. He'll Anita Hill this till he has to pay up. What a damn disgrace and embarrassment this is to our justice system. Arguably the most influential job in our country, and one that requires and demands principled ethics be at the forefront.

Just one more Reagan screw up we have to contend with. When will we learn.....

Conservatives...they are ruining our country.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 10:07 a.m.

Please supply any reliable source that he falsified tax forms. To the best of my knowledge no valid claim has been made. He may have committed a civil infraction, but that is not an impeachable offence.

Again with vilifying the Koch brothers, unlike your liberal philanthropists they are actually doing good with their money and not just promising to give it away in the future.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


How did I "vilify" the Koch Bros. Please explain. Please point out where I made them to be villains. Sometimes it baffles me how you process information.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Let the investigations begin. Turn over a few rocks on the court and who knows what we'll find. Some of these high n' mighty justices are openly corrupt. Look at the "Citizens United" decision. A decision so outrageous, that even our meek and respectful President called them out during a State of the Union address. It's unconscionable what has happened to our country. And at the hands of a radical right wing activist (how did Newt Leroy put it) court that is forcing it's "right wing social engineering" policies upon the populace.

Thomas, Scalia, Kennedy, more Reagan screw ups. Roberts, Alito...Dubya screw ups. An embarrassment to our country, they represent everything contrary to the very principles they were appointed to uphold. Screw em'.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If they do not file a joint return, it could be reasonable to conclude that her income is none of the courts business.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 9:57 a.m.

"U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Clarence Thomas said Monday that he had misunderstood the filing and reporting instructions when he failed for 13 years to properly disclose his wife's income on federal financial forms."

**Does this sound like they filed separately? It was on HIS forms. Thomas is a lawyer and a poor one at that. He was just trying to slide one by, just another scam artist.**

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The President orders the assignation of a U.S. citizen without due process, and you guys think a supreme court justice should be impeached for a civil infraction?

What is wrong with this picture?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What is wrong with this picture?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.

What's wrong is that YOU try to play one against the other. Those are two different issues with nothing to do with each other. Typical RW BS.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 10:49 a.m.

A civil infraction is not an impeachable offence, the assignation of a U.S. citizen is.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A "civil infraction"? You are so ignorant.

And just because this Al Qaeda butthead was born here doesn't mean he's a "citizen". When he became an enemy of the country, I think he lost that right.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Fro- Your thinking is a good example of most things wrong with our system. Your ethical standard of corruption is, if I think the other guy is even worse, than it's okay. You and a few others that post on this forum, are just party suck ups. Not willing to rationally confront problematic situations strictly based on party/overall belief affiliation. You could care less if Thomas is a crook. Hell, more power to him for subverting the law of the land. Her income isn't the courts business, right? Don't you give a small..whatever, about right and wrong? Change the target when you are backed into a corner? Is that the best you can do? Re-think and get back with me.

The hypnotherapy process I offered a couple yesterday applies to you also. Your welcome. :))

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 11:12 a.m.

So without due process the president can decide anyone has given up their citizenship and assassinate them?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen@ 11:19...and has been deporting "illegals" at a much higher rate than Dubya. The right refuses to acknowledge this president does anything they want done.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Party suck ups. Why? A skewed feeling of "superiority" based on nuanced history and for lack of personal resolve? Of personal character? Why would anyone wrap their arms around corruption unless they got some sort of bennie from it. I don't get it.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So without due process the president can decide anyone has given up their citizenship and assassinate them?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 11:15 a.m

Yup, watch out, you could be next !!!! LOL

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And the baggers talk about those on the left drinking too much "Kool-aid". LOL!

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So, Fro. Does this mean you are standing up for your Al Qaeda brothers? You think it's bad that they get the same thing they have been advocating for years now? Maybe you should head on over to Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever your buddies are hanging out now.

Stick up for them, atta boy, you have every right to do so.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/the-us-case-against-awlaki/

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The assassination of a terrorist doesn't bother me, the assassination of the Constitution does.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know what Frobert, pick a side.

Either support YOUR (I assume you are a citizen but sometimes it doesn't sound like it) Country or don't.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 12:23 p.m.

I support MY country, however I condemn rouge elements within our government that ignore our Constitution.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


“Unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution.”

Barack Obama July 1,2007

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 1:08 p.m.

I did not support illegal actions by republicans either. The funny thing, when I condemned actions by our previous administration, liberals stood with me, but now that these crimes are being perpetuated by a democrat they are okay. Although I do not remember any of your positions, many on the left are hypocrites.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

Citizens rights are protected by the constitution, so I am not "bouncing" around.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yup, citizens (even non-citizens) here in this country are protected by our constitution. But you step outside the country and attack the very country that gave you the freedom to leave and you lose that protection. If you commit a crime in another country and you are not protected, are you?

Sure, go ahead and drop across the Mexican border and commit a crime (or just have them believe you have committed a crime) and you are screwed six ways to Sunday.

As far as I'm concerned, if you belong to Al Qaeda, you better be hiding really good and keeping your mouth shut if you want to live.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 1:47 p.m

Boumediene v. Bush

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"There was no historical Adam and Eve, no serpent, no apple, no fall that toppled man from a state of innocence. "

Allen — September 30, 2011 at 9:56 a.m.

Who knows? Do you trust Scientists who are constantly changing their views anyway? Wasn't Albert Einstein recently found to be wrong about the speed of light?

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 30, 2011 at 1:57 p.m

Doesn't apply

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well folks, you notice that somebody is missing from the forum??? Looks like he didn't heed the warnings by Matt all too well. Well, hopefully he will find a place to vent his frustrations and let his voice be heard regarding his informational observations which a lot of times were spot on (maybe without the threats and foul language....).

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My condolences pour out to the Ritola Family for their loss of a loved one.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/se...

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fro,

From the AP,

Republicans and Democrats alike applauded the decision to launch the fatal assault on the convoy in Yemen.

"It's something we had to do," said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. "The president is showing leadership. The president is showing guts."

"It's legal," said Maryland Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. "It's legitimate and we're taking out someone who has attempted to attack us on numerous occasions. And he was on that list."

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, I thought he was just sulking but now I see all of his posts from before are gone. Oh well, too bad- so sad.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Guess that's how the cookie crumbles, Hawkeye. Cat scratch(ed).

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 3:32 p.m.

"Republicans and Democrats alike applauded the decision to launch the fatal assault on the convoy in Yemen."

So, democrats and republicans are equally corrupt.

"And he was on that list."

When the government puts you on a list, you lose your Constitutional rights?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 30, 2011 at 3:45 p.m.

You know what, fro? You're just one of those guys that are never happy, aren't you. You want to argue just to argue. Guess what, I'm done with you for today. Every time I post something, you change the rules.

I'm sorry but Anwar al-Awlaki had no constitutional rights. He lost them when he became an enemy combatant and a traitor. Spin it any way you want but that's the way I see it and so does most of the country. If you are hell bent on protecting those that would destroy this country, let me ask you this.

If someone was standing in front of you with a bomb strapped to his chest in a room full of people and you had a gun and could stop him by shooting him, would you? Or would you say sorry to all the people that are going to die because you might violate his constitutional rights?

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 4:07 p.m.

If they posed an imminent threat I would act accordingly, however that does not apply.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I must confess, I have been unable to find this article on the Proquest site.*

Maybe you could ask the ref. librarian for help....

Read up on Reagan's "welfare queen", the information Norris gave is inaccurate. Reagan specifically said Chicago South Side and that she was already convicted during his campaigning.

So, wrong city and wrong dates for your LATimes article.

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...the cat...erased? So say the rumblings throughout the avatar community. Say it ain't so!

Does anyone know what happened? Is Libby on this? Will it make the front page? Another one censured? Was it self inflicted? Any inheritors?

I think that was like the 3rd or 4th persona cat said he used. He'll be back, and no doubt his handle next time will reflect some sort of personal heroism to the middle class. And to that I say...

...long live the cat. We could have a slide show showing some of the cat's best moments! :))

alley..God bless you dude. Keep on keeping on. It is what it is......I know we'll meet again. Most likely tomorrow when you assume a new handle, till then..peace

I'm new at this avatarial death thing. Is a funeral in order? A .. wake perhaps? Eulogy?

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*They show a devotion to the Constitution unlike any Justice in recent years*

Umm, your first case was 5-4 so there seems that four others fit that description unless you think they voted that way for some other reason....

Also,it was more an issue with using the commerce clause rather than anything substantive about limiting or expanding federal / commerce interactions. You might have gathered that if you'd read the opinions and not just use some rw / libertarian blog's claims.

The second seems not to fit your claims in any regard.

And you haven't explained your support of CT re marijuana.

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...well...does anyone want to say a few words? Share a fond memory? We should pay our respects to the chief. I wasn't as close to the cat as some of you were. goldenoldie? hawk? Kn_d? Anyone?

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The due-process-free assassination of U.S. citizens is now reality.
BY Glenn Greenwald.

No effort was made to indict him for any crimes (despite a report last October that the Obama administration was "considering" indicting him). Despite substantial doubt among Yemen experts about whether he even has any operational role in Al Qaeda, no evidence (as opposed to unverified government accusations) was presented of his guilt. When Awlaki's father sought a court order barring Obama from killing his son, the DOJ argued, among other things, that such decisions were "state secrets" and thus beyond the scrutiny of the courts. He was simply ordered killed by the President: his judge, jury and executioner. When Awlaki's inclusion on President Obama's hit list was confirmed, The New York Times noted that "it is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing."

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/30/awlaki

mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 4:48 p.m

I have read the opinions, and although I don't agree with all of his decisions, his statements that years ago the government using the commerce clause in that way would not have been tolerated did impress me.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — September 30, 2011 at 4:52 p.m

So which side of the issue do you take, the ACLU or the Presidents?

Although it might be more prudent not to say, I have taken considerable flak today for my opinion.

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

I've also had a problem with the legality of this whole War on Terrorism business. To me, wars are between nations. The Taliban was a group that represented a nation, so they could be legally targeted as an enemy. But Al Qaeda has no nation, and should be considered nothing but a group of criminals. Very nasty criminals, but (supposedly) afforded some sort of protection under our laws.

Anyhow, I ran across an article from the William and Mary Law Review a while back that went into this very topic.

http://legalworkshop.org/2011/01/10/4163

They make a compelling point for why we should be able to take any sort of military action against them, to include targeting individuals. Especially, read the section - III. Classifying the Enemy in the “War on Terror” where they use historical precedence (German saboteurs in US during WWII) and the categorization as "unlawful combatants."

There appears to be enough evidence that al Alwaki instigated the MAJ Hassan shootings and a couple of other terrorist attempts via his internet site. So, perhaps the discussion ought to move to whether someone who doesn't take a direct leadership or combatant role can be considered guilty. Osama bin Laden was a recognized leader of Al Qaeda; the jury is out on whether al Alwaki was in any sort of position to direct the activities of others. Too bad Goebbels committed suicide - he'd be a good comparison, and you can bet if the Soviets gave him up he'd have hung.

roger — September 30, 2011 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 4:50 p.m.

OK, I'll say something.

Puddytat, Me thinks you got ahold of a bad mousey and shoulda let go but as we all know, kitties have nine lives and you got at least 4 left. Hope you land on your feet.

hawkeye — September 30, 2011 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 30, 2011 at 5:46 p.m.

My problem with the situation is that executive authority receives not judicial oversight. Basically what we have now is if the President says someone is a bad guy they can be killed. If an incitement was issued and he died in the process of arrest, our Constitution would be preserved. It seems as though if they had as much evidence as they claim they would have taken it to a judge and gotten an arrest warrant. All we have now is the government saying what a bad guy he is and that gives them the right to kill him. What's to stop a President from deciding that the candidate running against them is an enemy of the State?

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks hawk. I didn't want to be the first one to speak. I remember when I first started posting on this site. alleycat was all about cutting costs, letting old folks...move on so to speak (trying to be respectful given the sobriety of the occasion). I forget what I said in response (there are a few reasons for that), but I hope I wasn't unkind.

amen

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm able to channel a few of the cat & friends thoughts on my ii hook-up. Out of resect for alleycat, I will devote the rest of today with thoughts and images, done with respect, in his memory. Perhaps we can get a glimpse of his past, present and future.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Perhaps we can get a glimpse of his past, present and future."""

Or perhaps not.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2011 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My device seems to be working goldenoldie. Recently deceased avatars tend to leave a residue, which becomes quite functional for the ii. It's not perfect. It is what it is.

nailingit — September 30, 2011 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Friday evening. Cat probably in Portland somewhere with HIS people, enjoying what only kitties can enjoy. Sitting on that bike, listening to GaGa. Thinking of next name to use here as it is his mission in life to set us all straight as we are so obviously all in need of his sage advice, every day, every minute, all year long. Without him in the basement of the C-the world will end.
RIP Cat, we will see you soon.

luvithere — September 30, 2011 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


alleycat took on Big Lou and survived. (Or, from alley's perspective, triumphed.) I predict another return - more glorious than ever. He's been talking the merits of Lady GaGa more and more lately - will she be involved somehow?

And I'll repeat what I said before. Alleycat, when he's on, can make some very good observations about our society and the negativity that consumes us. He is always trying get us to overcome our inward focus and look for what's best for everyone. But when he gets angry at someone - oh well.

roger — September 30, 2011 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

"I've also had a problem with the legality of this whole War on Terrorism business. To me, wars are between nations." (Roger)

I think at one time that was true. Wars are now between competing ideologies and the wealthy against the impoverished.

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In the U.S. there are several wars happening. There is the battle of more government vs. less government,feudalism (states rights) vs nationalism, "Christianity" vs. Secular Humanism, Caucasian men (you people!) vs everybody else, rural vs. urban, north vs. south, democrat vs. republican. None of these wars individually is a big deal. But combined, it means our country is in deep trouble. How can we transcend all of the divisions and just be Americans? And on a deeper level, just be humans?
Its not happening, folks. We have built ourselves up a huge tower in the sky, higher and higher, with no limits. Its swaying, precariously, in the wind.

mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — September 30, 2011 at 10:27 p.m.

I could care less about a terrorist, but until a court of law rules on that, he is still a citizen and he still has rights and he is still innocent.

Btw nowhere in the bill of rights does it limit them to citizens, so your false statement that he gave up his citizenship is irrelevant.

There are constitutional steps the government could take if they had proof that he was a criminal. Instead they use unsupported statements and speculation they never have to prove because he is dead.( kind of like WMDs isn't it)

frobert — September 30, 2011 at 10:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Considering the killing of an American citizen abroad that was in very deep with Al Queda may be a great parlor topic, but why are we making a big deal out of it? What's the concern? Do we fear our trustworthy government may turn it's attention toward it's own people and find an excuse to take them out? Is there anyone that would bet the farm our beloved government has never done so? If so, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona.....

mrd — October 1, 2011 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not sure if the "government" is taking people out or not. There are thousands of people who are reported missing each year in the U.S. Most eventually reappear, but some do not. The Columbian occasionally makes people APPEAR to disappear...

mangoboy — October 1, 2011 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — September 30, 2011 at 8:05 p.m.

*wealthy against the impoverished.*

Howard Zinn made a compelling case that was also a strong factor in most of American history.

A People's History of the United States: 1492-Present
http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780060528423-0

mr_basil_seal — October 1, 2011 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The government would never take out American citizens, no way. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State et all where just er, ah, misunderstandings, yea, just misunderstandings.

I'm not a conspiracy kinda guy, but if the government will do this in broad daylight, what would it do covertly in the dead of night? Oh that's right, I forgot, the US government occupies the moral high ground and would never do such things. All ya gotta do is ask them, they'll tell it to you straight. Uh, huh.

mrd — October 1, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 30, 2011 at 5:03 p.m.

While our government may make a strong case, Greenwald (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/30/awlaki) and Jonathan Turley (http://jonathanturley.org/2011/09/30/did-obama-just-assassinate-a-u-s-citizen-aulaqi-killing-raises-questions-over-presidential-powers/) present far better reasoned cases against, not only the constitutionality of the action, but where accepting that leads.

mr_basil_seal — October 1, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Because the Constitution expressedly gives a president power to issue these executive orders and also gives Congress a remedy, assuming the remedy can overcome a presidential veto, it seems an agruement based on the constitutionality of such orders would be circular at best. Again, like the Bible, strict interpretation is faulty, especially when the document and book contradict themselves.

mrd — October 1, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


~America is a passionate idea or it is nothing. America is a human brotherhood or it is chaos.~

Max Lerner 'Actions and Passions' 1949

nailingit — October 1, 2011 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil @ 7:50 am: Thank you for posting those links. This topic will be debated hotly for years to come, I am sure.

I have not had time to digest the implications from my perspective fully, because they are so complicated and emotion-charged.

So many due process rights and protections were tossed out the window in the wake of 9/11. Frightened and angry citizenry tend to sign away these rights during such emotional and unusual crises for the "common good." Or so they believe.

My concern has always been: when we erode the rights of the most heinous among us, we erode our own rights.

manthou — October 1, 2011 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 9:15 am: Max Lerner's quote you shared is what I was trying to express.

The fact that so many ultra-conservatives are cheering this hit, rather than pondering the deeper implications of it is a red flag for my conscience.

manthou — October 1, 2011 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't care how or where they capture or kill terrorists. If they don't kill them, then they should be tortured until they spill their guts or die, period. The problem I have with this particular case is that obama is using this as campaign fodder and nothing more. It will be interesting to see how much lower he will go in order to win a second term. Since we are not going to leave Afghanistan any time soon, he needs to find another way to woo voters over to his side.

cranky — October 1, 2011 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have to laugh at this whole conversation. Justice in American? Due Process? what a joke. How many convicted killers on death row are have been found innocent by dna testing? How many of the wealthy accused can buy their way to freedom? Steal a piece of bread to feed your family, sorry, you are a criminal. Justice is a moving target! Still as bad as it is here, there are many other countries where justice is even more lopsided. And what are the remedies? a cash settlement to the family? Done!

mangoboy — October 1, 2011 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Being labeled a terrorist depends on which side you're on. When US forces surrounded a village where this guy was holed up, the locals starting firing at the troops and under that cover, helped him escape. They evidently didn't feel he was a threat to them.

The vanquished leaders are labeled as war criminals and may be killed-as was Saddam, and to the victors the spoils. How little we've changed. The Romans would be proud.

The US does this in the name of freedom, democracy, blah, blah, blah. Yea right.

mrd — October 1, 2011 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 30, 2011 at 7:12 p.m.

Well said, Roger.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2011 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One way to level the playing field in the administration of justice would be to require everyone accused of a crime to be represented by a public defender. Of course, everyone is equal before the law. Its just that some people are more equal than others!!!

mangoboy — October 1, 2011 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 9:44..I'm afraid sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees. I see Pres Obama as a big picture guy, but the framework keeps getting smaller. We've been conducting warfare and assassinating whoever we want in a country we are not at war with, expressly forbids us to do it, and is supposedly our ally. A nuclear armed country, who can thank us for getting it done for them. We set countries up to fail. This chess game of war needs to end.

We should have criminal investigations as to the cause of the Iraqi war and how it was conducted. (to include the use and advocation of torture) Charge those that need be, to include pres bush. Maybe we can be that beacon of light to the world once again.

Next it'll be Canada. At least we won't need as many linguists this time around.

nailingit — October 1, 2011 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We went after Saddam and his sons several times, and killed the sons. Were they ever a true threat to our country?

We took out Osama bin Laden in what has all the markings of an execution. He was responsible for numerous attacks on and murders of our people and others, but by all reports was "retired" by the time we caught up to him. Why no capture and trial?

Al Awlaki, whether an American citizen or not, was actively engaged in instigating attacks on our nation and its people. By some reports, he may have even been the Operations Chief of his branch of Al Qaeda and was directing these attacks.

Of the three, the guy we just killed presented the clearest danger to us at the time we took him out. Further, it has been repeatedly shown that there is usually a very small window in which someone can be hit once clearly identified - sometimes only minutes. This seems to have been the case here. The President was right to order this hit without taking the time to consult with either other branch.

And we're going to quibble over his rights as a US citizen? He may not have renounced his citizenship, but I'd say he relinquished his rights as one once he became an active Al Qaeda member.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No one cried when documents were released showing CIA was present and helping direct the actions of the Bolivian Army when they captured and executed Che Guevara. And he never engaged in any attack against us; he was only guilty of spreading Communism in the Western hemisphere.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger...bringing soviet missiles into Cuba didn't help. I'm not a history buff but....I suppose it's all in what you meant when saying spreading communism.

nailingit — October 1, 2011 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to seem oppositional, but we captured Saddam and let him be tried by his peers. His sons were killed in a time of war during a firefight, and it is reported Bin laden was reaching for a weapon at time of death. Bin Laden was retired? Is that what intel showed?

nailingit — October 1, 2011 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit,

Point accepted.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On Guevara, that is.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 1, 2011 at 6:26 p.m.

"he was only guilty of spreading Communism in the Western hemisphere"

Are you kidding?

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/10820/column-che-guevara-exposing-myths-about-a-murderer/p1

Rightwing_Extremist — October 1, 2011 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wasn't Saddam tried and hung by the Shiite government we installed? His peers were Bathists. Of course, Saddam routinely tortured and killed Shiites, so....

Saddam's sons and a couple of bodyguards were taken out by a team of SF operatives, the 101st Abn, some helicopters, and an A-10. Well over 200 against 4. We leveled their homes. That wasn't what I'd call a firefight.

Our people said Osama was reaching for a gun. I believe the wife that was present said he wasn't?

Whatever. I have no problems with us taking any of these people out. I was just making the point that Al Awlaki could be considered just as dangerous, if not more so, and equally deserving of meeting the same fate they did (except for Saddam).

roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Right_Wing Extremist,

An opinion piece in VA Tech's student newspaper?

roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, seeing as how apparently my examples aren't acceptable (to some), let me try a different tack.

Though he hasn't come up and officially said so, it looks like Matt terminated The Cat for exercising his perceived right of unfettered free speech. There was no trial by peers or anything else that we've come to consider our rights as American citizens. Just a unilateral action my this forum's moderator.

Why aren't we feeling outrage over this decision? Maybe because we recognize that Matt has the right, due to his role as moderator, to terminate someone he feels is detrimental to whatever? So, why then when our President makes a similar decision to terminate, while serving in his role of Commander in Chief, are we so busily engaged in questioning his decision?

roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Matt,

Did you shut down alleycat? If, yes, would you be kind enough to tell us what he did?

Thanks.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 1, 2011 at 7:22 p.m.

To glorify this murderer is sickening. Ask anyone of Cuban decent what they think of ole Che. Our resident self described history buff should also know better.

http://cubanology.com/Articles/willtherealche.htm

http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/che_guevara_revolutionary_murderer_or_just_a_t_shirt_icon/

http://rulehibernia.com/2010/11/retarded-people-think-che-guevara-is-cool/

Rightwing_Extremist — October 1, 2011 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Right_Wing Extremist,

Let's see - Guevarra helped the Castros and their friends overthrow someone of whom JFK said "Fulgencio Batista murdered 20,000 Cubans in seven years ... and he turned Democratic Cuba into a complete police state – destroying every individual liberty."

Prior to that he was on the opposite side from us when our CIA helped overthrown the government of Guatemala so a pro-US military dictator could take charge.

Back to Cuba - he did train and lead the Cuban soldiers who decimated the US backed invasion at the Bay of Pigs. And as I had to admit to Nailingit, he did initiate the request to get the Soviets to put their missiles in Cuba.

I believe after that he led the Cuban military advisors in Angola, and also got involved with a few other countries there. I also recall we had our own people operating there - again on the opposite sides.

And then he returned and went to Bolivia. Where we were finally in a position to bring a permanent stop to his activities.

Interesting how people can see the same facts and have so many totally different opinions on what they mean.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And from your latest post, I'll guess your main focus is the Bay of Pigs?

roger — October 1, 2011 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, I agree that we are in bed with people we shouldn't be. We armed the 'freedom fighters' in Afghanistan to help against the Soviet Union. That worked out well for all :P

What is the point of war? We have made it completely rediculous by having rules in war. We are only allowed to kill in a proper way. Do you know of, or have anyone related to you deployed now? Our rules of engagement make our soldiers sitting ducks.

I surely hope the next time we enter a war, we have only one goal, to win as quickly as possible, with the least amount of casualities on our side, using any method to achieve that goal. I think in our current war in Afghanistan we should pull out. Those people live in the 7th century and will be governed by a Muslim regime either way.

We encouraged the uprisings in; Egypt, now controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood, Libya, undergoing change to Muslim Brotherhood, Turkey, burning down Israeli Embassy, The One backing Alassane Ouattara in The Ivory Coast which has led to the killing of thousands of christians.

We can't be the world's policeman any longer, but we surely don't need to be aiding and abetting thugs trying to gain power by force.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 1, 2011 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NEW YORK (AP) -- New York City police say about 700 protesters have been arrested after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down a lane of traffic for several hours.

Well, they finally did something organized. This is the craziest protest I've ever heard of - no one is in charge and everyone is protesting for/against something different. And I've been hearing for days that Labor is on the way to join in. Maybe our ILWU friends from Longview can band with the group protesting genetically altered foods and march together chanting something socially conscious in a menacing manner?

roger — October 1, 2011 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rightwing,

I'm retired Army, and know many people who are or were in both theaters and other places as well. I had friends and relatives that were in Vietnam, for example. I agree with just about everything you said in your latest - the part I'll question is "to win as quickly as possible...using any method to achieve that goal." Maybe a little self restraint would be a good thing.

But allow me to observe that we have a long history of aiding and abetting thugs. I spent a few years in Panama while one (Noriega) was in charge. We backed the oppressive regime in El Salvador; the one with the death squads that regularly killed people who spoke out against them. This list can cover just about every country in Central America and a few further south. And in a few other parts of the world.

roger — October 1, 2011 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, thank you for your service, I do appreciate it. I think those protesters are still there from the day of rage on the 17th organized by Trumpka.

Our good friend Alleycat has nine lives, he has been reincarnated at least four times, he'll be back again.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 1, 2011 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"We need to cut $1.5 trillion out of the budget, not over 10 years, but this year" says Peter Schiff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M46-ej...!

This sure sounds familiar to me. That's right, I posted this several times back in April. Yes, things have gotten worse. They are going to get much worse. My posting in April:

I'm not in favor of a balanced budget, we are too late in this avalanche for a balanced budget to be enough to stop what is coming. I'm talking about immediate cuts of at least $2 trillion a year, right now.

If interest rates don't rise, all that does is cause our $14 trillion debt to remain. To begin to pay it down we must raise revenues or cut even more. If interest rates rise, which I believe they will dramatically, we would have to be even more aggressive.

Look at page 3 of the budget for the ten year period. Pay close attention to the revenues and expenses starting in 2012. These look very optimistic to me.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/tables.pdf

Now look at the calculations in this chart. These are using the budget above but showing historical interest rates, which again, I think they will go higher than listed.

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/next-entitlement-program-interest-debt

Here is the chart showing the resulting effect

http://www.economics21.org/blog/consequences-rosy-interest-rate-assumptions

This assumes that our entitlement and military spending follow the budget. Has that ever happened?

Rightwing_Extremist — October 2, 2011 at 1:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wall Street might not be growing tulips, but it's still spreading manure
by Mark Sumner

In 1636, Dutch tulip traders began to broker trades for the right to buy tulips that had not yet been produced. They had created a futures market. It was at this point that the market really exploded. The price of tulip futures edged up, and up, and up. Men who had never had a tulip in their own garden gambled all they owned on paper promising bulbs the following spring. If they couldn't buy all of a contract, they could still buy part. As more and more people rushed in, the prices continued ever upward.

At this point, the market was no longer about beauty, not longer about possessing rarity, it was simply about money.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/02/1021939/-Wall-Street-might-not-be-growing-tulips,-but-its-still-spreading-manure?via=blog_1

mr_basil_seal — October 2, 2011 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Rightwing,

You forgot a few things. The charts showing the greatest disparity in wealth we have ever had in particular. Another chart showing that government is not a business. Government has the increasingly difficult job of taking care of people that are of no use to the private sector because of structural changes in the economy and because of the growing shortage of living wage jobs.
Also, since there are just way too many government programs and entities, the public sector cannot function efficiently.

mangoboy — October 2, 2011 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama’s Tenure Cost Democrats Edge in Which Party Can Bring Prosperity
By: Jon Walker

This is the devastating political implication of a too small stimulus that was terribly oversold. The Obama team told the American people that if the American Recovery Act passed, unemployment wouldn’t go to 9 percent; the law was passed and unemployment still went to 9 percent — and stayed there. It is only natural that after this huge blunder, followed by the equally huge blunder of passing a health care reform bill that did little to expand coverage right away to those suffering in the downturn, that the American people question the Democratic Party’s competence when it comes to economic matters.

http://elections.firedoglake.com/2011/09/30/obamas-tenure-cost-democrats-edge-in-which-party-can-bring-prosperity/

mr_basil_seal — October 2, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — October 2, 2011 at 7:58 a.m

Good catch, nice to see someone looking critically at sources that are selective in the choices of data they use.

mr_basil_seal — October 2, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just want to jump to the local level for a comment: Stephanie Rice, Marissa Harshman and Andrea Damewood: I LOVE your "All Politics is Local" blog. This is, by far, the best feature of The Columbian now!

As someone who has made a career studying the psyche of my fellow humans (I still don't know squat), your observations of our local politicians speak volumes to me.

Tom Mielke should be under a doctor's care for his cognitive lapses. I do not mean that disrespectfully. It seems funny at first, but then, ewwww. Hope someone is looking out for the poor guy. He needs to retire.

manthou — October 2, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy — October 2, 2011 at 7:58 a.m.

Whatever the description of a 'living wage' has been will have to be adjusted down, that is for sure. We are going to see a lot more extended families living together, which they probably should have anyway. If you are a believer that we should make the rich 'pay our share for us', please note that we could take every penny they have and that would just cover the deficit this year. For eighty years our government has been involved in social programs they never should've. You don't have to look any futher than the EU to see where we are headed.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 2, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The biggest problem in the EU is they have euro member states who had to really stretch to join in the first place, now with the world economy in a slump, the wisdom of including them has become starkly apparent. The Romance Language countries are great for romance, lounging in the sun drinking wine and just generally enjoying life. But terrible economic partners!

mangoboy — October 2, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — October 2, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.

I wouldn't say the "stimulus" was too small, more that it was targeted to make sure the wealthy stayed that way. It was never designed to help the working family. Democrats and Republicans supported this money for their corporate donors.

frobert — October 2, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Whatever the description of a 'living wage' has been will have to be adjusted down.

Let's just not adjust whatever the description of "wealthy" is upward, however. It wouldn't be right for some of those folks to fall into the same income/total tax ratio as the rest of us.

Even if we were to do so, the hurting extended family would have plenty of room. Just pick the 10,000 sq ft home to move into, and give each family 5000 sq ft per. No problem!

mrd — October 2, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The 3,000 attendees at the dinner, which took place at the Washington Convention Center, gave the president multiple standing ovations when he touted the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," hospital visitation rights for same-sex couples and spoke out against the bullying of LGBT youth.

The most electric reaction, however, came when Obama sharply criticized the GOP presidential candidates for staying silent when audience members at a debate booed a gay soldier who asked a question about DADT.

"We don't believe in the kind of smallness that says it's okay for a stage full of political leaders -- one of whom could end up being the president of the United States -- being silent when an American soldier is booed. We don't believe in that," said Obama to loud cheers and a standing ovation.

"We don't believe in standing silent when that happens. We don't believe in them being silent since. You want to be commander in chief? You can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States, even when it's not politically convenient. We don't believe in a small America. We believe in a big America -- a tolerant America, a just America, an equal America -- that values the service of every patriot."

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This HP article sums it up well. Can anyone imagine a Republican conservative president making these remarks?

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen- It baffles me, that in this day and age, we have a Rick Perry, a Rick Sanitorium :), a Bachman, or just take your pick, vying for the highest office in the land. The republicans should be outraged. Instead of still trying to find the right candidate, they should be objecting these ridiculous candidates, and concede next years Presidential election! No mas! :)). How absurd these backward thinking people, at this level of politics, who support "right wing social engineering" are standing on the stage they are on. They embarrass America as well as their party.

Is Jerry running again next year?

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The irony for the republicans is that the outcome of next years presidential election could be favorable to the left, just because many conservative republicans stayed home. Based on they couldn't vote for a Mormon, who in their mind, worships/follows/trusts in the devil's doctrine. It's priceless, but could very well come true.

I guess the devil is in the details.

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When you let anyone and everyone vote, we can expect this occasionally.

roger — October 2, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 11:39 a.m.

The true irony is that many(not all) of the liberals that were calling for prosecution of Bush are perfectly fine with a democrat president ordering unconstitutional death squads.

frobert — October 2, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- I agree to some degree. But the "irony level" doesn't compare. Decades of weaving religious conservative "values" into the right wing political system, have corrupted and devalued the republican party to the point of no return. I think we'll see a couple viable splinter groups form. One that leans hard right, spurring on a counter party that leans hard left. I bet within 15 years this comes about, and it will change the political landscape. You Ron Paul (grand dad of the bagger movement) will have a distinct but still unelectable voice. As for "conservative values" Republicans, the numbers and opposition from the right wing "constitutional purists" will alienate and divide what is left, leaving them politically impotent and powerless.

Those on the left will hold on to a majored government for decades to come. and we all shall live happily ever after!

amen

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.

Well who needs neocons with democrats like we have today.

frobert — October 2, 2011 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Link to the Occupy Portland website.

http://occupyportland.org/

Pure entertainment - they're concerned about the lack of permits, whether it's illegal to camp out downtown, whether they'll have to march on the sidewalks, where to park, keeping dry, etc. etc. And someone is calling for pre-instruction in Gandhian nonviolence.

I'm sure Korporate Amerika (or whoever they're protesting against) will be impressed.

roger — October 2, 2011 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like Lew Waters and I can agree on something. He's having a hard time understanding why his fellow Vietnam vets in the Olympia area aren't willing to have an inscription added to the Vietnam War Memorial there that recognizes the ARVN soldiers who fought along side our troops.

http://lewwaters.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/washington-let%E2%80%99s-honor-our-south-vietnamese-allies/#more-6029

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/09/29/1819971/plan-to-honor-vietnamese-soldiers.html

The French gave us the land for the cemetery at Colleville in Normandy so our fallen military could be buried on American soil. Maybe we can learn something from that example.

roger — October 2, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sprinkling outside, grey and cloudy with a slight chill in the air...feels like Autumn usually does around here. I've been reading all the comments and came up with a question for anyone who wants to take a leap in answering...without saying what the other political party is doing or isn't doing. I'm referring to the following question while keeping in mind my request to keep the blame game out:

*All in all, who is the number one person you believe is 100% qualified to run for president in 2012 (and that includes re-election of our current president) and why?*

goldenoldie — October 2, 2011 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Justice Department OK'd taking out al Awlaki.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/aulaqi-killing-reignites-debate-on-limits-of-executive-power/2011/09/30/gIQAx1bUAL_story.html

Isn't this the same route taken by Pres Bush on holding detainees indefinitely at Guantanamo?

roger — October 2, 2011 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

Natural born citizen at least 35 years of age. I guess they're all qualified. Probably everyone here too.

I'm thinking no one is truly qualified in that there's no other job like it. (Except for an incumbent pursuing a second term.) We just pick a person we hope will succeed that thinks like we do about whatever topics we consider important.

roger — October 2, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Folks, here's our annual warning to rush in and get a flu shot which is up to each and every individual to decide whether or not they should acquire one...but it strikes a wrong note when the "warning" we receive in an article...quoted by the writer which states "A virus with the ability to kill thousands across the country is expected to begin infecting people in the coming weeks and months."

You might ask me why I say it strikes a wrong note with me...well my friends, this is fearmongering at it's finest. There isn't a new strain they're concerned with. In fact, if you read the rest of the article, it's stated as "Seasonal Influenza." Also...whenever the words are written as "expected to begin infecting people in the coming weeks and months.", what goes through my mind is "Is that when they're releasing the virus from the laboratories???"

sigh...

Good time to make sure you concentrate on your dietary needs to keep your immune system rolling in a positive direction...and keep your hands washed!!!

goldenoldie — October 2, 2011 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden;

Great question..I think everyone in the US is thinking about that.. It seems to me that a "Real Change" needs to happen. Obama has proved ill equiped to handle the Position. We need someone with a tad more experience than half a term in congress. But many here in the good Ol USA love to root for the Smooth talker, you see it everyday how people are taken advantage of by this type of person both Male and female.. I'm not into Im telling you so, but my son brought it up and said how right I was about Obama..

B Clinton
H Clinton
C Christie
J Huntsman

stikoutking — October 2, 2011 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I'm afraid that would be the general concensus...but that's just my opinion. Last week, Nailingit asked me who I liked when it comes to the people running for president...and quite frankly, I didn't have a direct answer as I'm not impressed with the selection...but it was fun telling Nailingit that (sorry to tease you like that, Nailingit).

goldenoldie — October 2, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Stikoutking, Christie has my attention.

goldenoldie — October 2, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — October 2, 2011 at 2:34 p.m.

Only Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are qualified, and the press and the two parties have gone out of their way to portray them as lunatic fringe for advocating strict adherence to the Constitution lies.

frobert — October 2, 2011 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


To accomplish anything, The President has to be able to build some sort of working consensus in Congress. Unfortunately, the far Left and the far Right control the two parties. There was no compromise when Pelosi was Speaker, and there's none now with Boehner.

Nailingit commented on the quality of Repub candidates a few hours ago, and wondered where the indignation from that party was. I'm going to guess that the answer is the same as for where are the Dems. They're there, but won't consider running. Trying to get this country back on track has got to be the toughest job facing any Pres since FDR. And given the current makeup of Congress, especially the House, the next Pres is probably doomed to failure.

Hillary and Bobby Jindal. Jindal isn't running in 2012, but I can see his campaign for 2016 now - his governorship of a state that could be considered Third World makes him uniquely qualified to run a nation that's trying to get there. (In fairness to Jindal, Louisiana has improved under his governorship.)

roger — October 2, 2011 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm going to shoot for Gabe Kaplan. With his educational/work experience background, I'll go with Mr. Kotter. He would offer much on the educational front, as well as on the social-economic issues of the day. He's a proven leader with notable ability to hold his cards close to his chest. A plus for national security.

~But those dreams have remained, and they're turned around~

John Sebastian for VP...a Kaplan/Sebastian ticket for 2012

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wasn't someone from this crowd running?

roger — October 2, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HP-""Following a Washington Post report that Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry's family hunting camp in Texas once had the word "Ni**erhead" painted on a large rock at its entrance, the Perry campaign is scrambling to control the damage.""

.....................................all righty then...........................

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes roger. I'm not directly blaming my campaign manager but...........

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did your campaign manager quit?

Let's see - Huntsman, Gingrich, Bachmann, Nailingit...will this disloyalty ever stop?

roger — October 2, 2011 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The cheap bugger quit paying me.

No checky no worky.

hawkeye — October 2, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — October 2, 2011 at 8:19 p.m

I was asked for and gave my personal opinion, my brain is not wired to the internet so I cannot give you a link.

Huntsman is my third choice, but as he is not a strict constitutionalist he is way behind my first two choices. I am not impressed with Cains 999 plan, it seems like Canadian level of taxation without their level of service. For a family of 4 at the median income, their income tax would remain basically the same and then they would have a 9% sales tax in addition to state sales tax if applicable.

"who are, by their actions and words, are traitors"

If no court ruled him to be a traitor under U.S. law he was innocent.-

frobert — October 2, 2011 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye! You're okay! Man, the rumors that have been floating around the office...

It's true, funding has been rough. I'm almost ready to Pac it in. I've been a slave to the Dow philosophy for so long, I have a problem with self promotion. If I start thinking I'm promoting myself/ideas well...then I realize to realize that, I must not be, then thinking I'm not, I might actually be...and then I start over again. It's like ordering a small child to go sit in the corner in a round room.

hawkeye...I feel a spirit of resurgence in the air...but if I truly feel it, maybe I thought I already have felt it, and the need would be reversed somehow, I think,....anyway hawk, check's in the mail. (maybe wait a few days to cash it) Let's right this ship and rudder left!

roger- I hope this clarifies. One goal..maybe more!

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've got him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/

Hawk- Clinton had Fleetwood Mac...Obama has Shakira...McCain had Abba (chuckle) Bush had the Village People (really?) ... we'll have Sebastian! A winning multiple season tune, that dances in the heads of those who hear it. Brilliant! Or is it...realizing it is a brilliant idea...I might need to re-think this.

nailingit — October 2, 2011 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL, nailingit (regarding the theme song to Welcome Back Kotter). Who would've ever thought John Sebastian hit the "Nail on the Head" when it came to what has happened to our society and the economic plight!!! How many people trying to experience the American Dream are facing the Uhmerikan Nightmare??? Definitely dreams that have turned around, huh.

And they say songs don't carry political messages! Yeah, right.

goldenoldie — October 3, 2011 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


“I doubted some of his predictions at first. But then Robert showed me the charts that provided evidence for such disturbing claims,” DeHoog commented.

Oh, yes, the charts. Everything can be explained and predicted by charts. And tinfoil hats are also very useful and under rated.

mangoboy — October 3, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mangoboy, I had my tin hat made into a cowboy hat, depending on which part of the country I'm in. Got to watch out for lightning though.

nailingit, OK, you're off the hook, AGAIN! I'll hold the check for a few days when it gets here but I have to tell you I have been approached by ANOTHER possible campaign. Can't tell you who but they aren't from around here. I can give you a hint though, he was on TV last night retiring from 60 Minutes. OOPS, hope that doesn't get me in trouble.

hawkeye — October 3, 2011 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — October 2, 2011 at 9:45 p.m.

But when some SOB tells people to kill my fellow Americans, and yes Fro, you could be one of them, why should any fellow American worry about that SOB's rights?"

Didn't our president just order the killing of one of our fellow Americans?

Don't get me wrong I will not shed a tear for a terrorist, but I will shed plenty over the death of our Constitution. It astounds me that so many people seem to think that Due process and the right to a trial are so trivial and can be replaced with "the government says he is a bad guy.

frobert — October 3, 2011 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — October 3, 2011 at 7:18 a.m.

Kind of a one note song, aren't you fro?

hawkeye — October 3, 2011 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 3, 2011 at 7:22 a.m.

I had dropped it and was on to another subject but Allen brought it up again.

frobert — October 3, 2011 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Allen — October 3, 2011 at 7:32 a.m.

Where in the bill of rights does it say "on U.S. soil" or "citizen"? His citizenship is not forfeited without a court ruling. If his actions are criminal(and it seems they were) why hasn't he been charged? What people don't seem to understand if this precedent is allowed to stand the government can put out a "kill order" on any citizen without trial.

frobert — October 3, 2011 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- "God takes the foolish things of the world to confound the wise." NRV

hawkeye- That seems to blow a hole in my theory that Rooney died in 2001, and all this time has been supported by wire and the skills of a shoddy taxidermist.

mr_basil_seal...Short video of the year! It's even short enough to engage the GaGa base!

I was looking forward to Laird's return but...I found the write difficult before two cups of coffee. Then I read digital DM's "piece". He managed to take a large dump and really stunk up the place. This guy can turn lemonade into lemons quicker than most.

It's a scary world outside the basement! :))

nailingit — October 3, 2011 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Is the Columbian forum regulator out to lunch?

nailingit — October 3, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It is the 3rd after all.

nailingit — October 3, 2011 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 3, 2011 at 7:56 a.m

DM must have just had his Sunday dinner, looks like he was "full" of it.

hawkeye — October 3, 2011 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Allen — October 3, 2011 at 6:37 a.m.

Allen, I know we've talked before about your age, but I know you don't have alzheimer's. If you don't think that scenerio is possible then you really have a short memory. How long have I been beating this drum?

This is recent history in Argentina

http://www.indexmundi.com/argentina/inflation_rate_(consumer_prices).html

Look at the rate of inflation in one month

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinf...

It can happen and still will likely happen. It's happening in Greece this week.

Rightwing_Extremist — October 3, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DM's write sounds like a prelude to running for a position in our local government. This self-serving corporatist might be ramping up his efforts to further starve our community of needed medical services and educational funding.

I bet he follows Glenn Beck.

nailingit — October 3, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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