Open forum, April 9-15

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372 comments

Comments

Gooooood morning, fellow forum followers!!! We sure lucked out yesterday with the most beautiful weather of the year thus far...and we're blessed with yet another wonderful day!!! I don't know about you all, but I'm going to take advantage of this beautiful day!!!

Have a great one!!!

goldenoldie — April 9, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning! You're right Golden, beautiful day yesterday, looks like a gorgeous day today. Perfect weather to take grandkids to the Portland Zoo, or friends gather at the Japanese Gardens.
A latte is waiting for me and a friend then off to the nurseries to check out plants.

Anyone know where I could find a good deal on a wheel-barrel?
Ours died of rusty bottom death and in need of replacement.

ELISI — April 9, 2012 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***The world is getting weird-er. Funny stuff!***

A veteran Republican senator set off a Twitter firestorm over the weekend by calling President Obama "stupid" for his recent comments on the Supreme Court health care case.

Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa wrote: "Constituents askd why i am not outraged at PresO attack on supreme court independence. Bcause Am ppl r not stupid as this x prof of con law.""

Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, was referring to the president's controversial statement last week that a ruling against his health care law by the high court would amount to "judicial activism" by "unelected" justices.

Top Obama political adviser David Axelrod quickly fired back, mocking the senator's peculiar Twitter writing style.

"Heads up, Sen. Grassley. I think a 6-year-old hijacked your account and is sending out foolish Tweets just to embarrass you!"

***HEY MATT, what's with this captcha, it's getting worse. so far I've renewed it 12 times.***

hawkeye — April 9, 2012 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney fired one off too. He was critizing Obama saying "maybe he spent too much time at Harvard." Romney spent 4 years at Harvard, Obama spent 3. Three of Romney's sons earned post-grad degrees from Harvard and Romney donated $50K to the business school. If spending too much time at Harvard is a problem, seems Mitt has a bigger one.

mrd — April 9, 2012 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In all honesty President Obama, insisting that the Supreme Court doing their job is overstepping, was pretty stupid. Unless of course his greater plan is to try to desolve the high court.

frobert — April 9, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In his 2004 State of the Union Address, President George W. Bush attacked “activist judges” who “insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people.” He returned to this theme over and over again during his presidency. President Reagan similarly railed against judges who “legislate from the bench,” and President Nixon routinely attacked judges who “twist or bend” the law to supposedly impose their personal views upon the nation.

The American Bar Association also chimed in about Obama's comments on the Supreme Court-negatively, of course. Small wonder considering Bill Robinson is prez of the ABA and happens to be a "major Republican donor". Then it should come as no surprise the ABA has NEVER commented negativly on a Republican president making essentially the same remarks.

mrd — April 9, 2012 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 9, 2012 at 2:58 p.m

When assessing stupid statements from democrats, I don't take into account stupid statements from republicans. One of the few things these two parties have in common is an over abundance of stupid statements.

frobert — April 9, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well stated, Frobert.

roger — April 9, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm betting CAPTCHA comes with different levels of difficulty. And I'm also thinking there's a trend with it. CAPTCHA starts to get reasonable. Editor Lou makes a guest appearance, tries to start a conversation, and gets a few tomatoes lobbed his way. So he goes back and tells Matt "Turn that sucker up!!!"

Of course, there's no way I could prove this....

roger — April 9, 2012 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


FRO@2:58
I agree. All pandering politicians suck equally. They'll tell you anything to get your vote, when all the while they'll cater to the big $$$$. Money controls our politicians/government, not votes. This year will be the first in approx 40 years I'll not participate in the election circus. I'm adopting George Carlin's attitude-I can complain because I had nothing to do with electing the garbage we are offered. It doesn't matter, it'll be the same old, same old. Who honestly thinks it'll be any different? Only an idealistic dreamer will think his vote means squat. It would be nice to see a total boycott of the November "elections". Let them auction off the political positions, it's what going to occur anyway.It's all about the money behind the "candidates", a term that should be used loosely. Participation is simply a tacit acceptance of a failed system, so support this BS, but I'll not. I urge folks to boycott the election in November as it's nothing but crap.

mrd — April 9, 2012 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you want a stupid statements made, look no further than today's article on the city councils vote on putting off the vote for anything until time runs out on June 30th. Then the gerrymandering will begin. The comments by a few will have you in stitches.

This is a prime example of putting thy foot in mouth disease. One person FORGOT the C-Tran board fired a person for NOT following the good ol' boy route. Another person likes to compare apples and oranges. He thinks that works. Silly him.

As far as CAPTCHA goes if you had only 10 or 15 try's then you're lucky!!! I have had as many as 38. I am not blind. I am not short sighted. HA HA! As I don't post using FB does it take CAPTCHA?? Or is just special for us here in the basement/dungeon/cellar??

JohnCasey — April 10, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


pssst....guys and gals in the forum...

If Captcha has both English letters as well as another script form...skip the other script. It works for me every time! The most I've gone through lately is about 5 or 6...only because sometimes the letters are so jumbled and run together, you can't tell if you're looking at a v and m or w and n...or it's too fuzzy to read at all.

goldenoldie — April 10, 2012 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnC, in a way...I believe the city council has made a good decision. Right now as it stands, there's a delay on the crossing because of the statements by the USCG regarding the height of the bottom deck which has put the project on yet another extended delay. Now is not a good time to ask the voters for more sales tax revenue and I agree with the council that there should be another way to gain revenue to pay for the maintenance and operations through C-Tran and Trimet...and it shouldn't be in a way that affects the price of products. If the local transit officials are so pent up in having the LRT in our neck of the woods (which is inevitable, even though we're trying to put it off as long as possible, given the lack of profits by the transit companies and the fact that our economy sucks here in our county), then the funding to maintain and operate the service should be something paid through their services...not through sales of non-food items.

goldenoldie — April 10, 2012 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey,

CAPTCHA is only for us 2nd class citizens here in the basement..

**;)**

You're right that CAPTCHA has become a pain in the backside, most
times I get pictures, numbers, or it is so garbled not even Einstein would be able to figure it out.

ELISI — April 10, 2012 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Study: Obama's health care law would raise deficit

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, AP
8 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Reigniting a debate about the bottom line for President Barack Obama's health care law, a leading conservative economist estimates in a study to be released Tuesday that the overhaul will add at least $340 billion to the deficit, not reduce it.

Charles Blahous, who serves as public trustee overseeing Medicare and Social Security finances, also suggested that federal accounting practices have obscured the true fiscal impact of the legislation, the fate of which is now in the hands of the Supreme Court.

Officially, the health care law is still projected to help reduce government red ink. The Congressional Budget Office, the government's nonpartisan fiscal umpire, said in an estimate last year that repealing the law actually would increase deficits by $210 billion from 2012 to 2021.

The CBO, however, has not updated that projection. If $210 billion sounds like a big cushion, it's not. The government has recently been running annual deficits in the $1 trillion range.

The White house dismissed the study in a statement late Monday. Presidential assistant Jeanne Lambrew called the study "new math (that) fits the old pattern of mischaracterizations" about the health care law.

Oooo I like this "new math" idea..maybe if we asked the banks if they'd use it to add a few zero's to our bank accounts...think it would work? **;)**

ELISI — April 10, 2012 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


elisi-
I read somewhere where they're still trying to figure out if Romneycare in Mass is saving money or not. Not surprisingly, the "experts" with a conservative slant argue it's costing more, and the "experts" with a liberal slant claim it's actually reduced the state's deficit.

Makes me wonder how these so-called experts can balance a checkbook.

mrd — April 10, 2012 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

Maybe they are using this "new math" LOL

ELISI — April 10, 2012 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal



http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/bogus-obamacare-deficit-study.html

From the article above:

That sounds pretty legit, right?

Actually, no. It’s not even remotely legit.

The first thing to understand here is that this is not a study by a government agency. It’s a paper by Charles Blahous. Who is Charles Blahous? He’s a Republican policy guy. By tradition, the president appoints a member of each party to serve as a trustee of Medicare and Social Security. Blahous, who served under George W. Bush and was active in his attempt to introduce private accounts into Social Security, is the Republican trustee. But the other trustee, Robert Reischauer, has zero to do with his paper. It was published by the Mercatus Center, a Koch-funded organization that produces some quality work as well as a fair amount of schlock that does not meet the standards of your typical university economics paper. This paper is an example of the latter.

langenthal — April 10, 2012 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0409/Study-Obamacare-will-raise-deficit

From the article in the CSMonitor

Officially, the health care law is still projected to help reduce government red ink. The Congressional Budget Office, the government's non-partisan fiscal umpire, said in an estimate last year that repealing the law actually would increase deficits by $210 billion from 2012-2021.

The CBO, however, has not updated that projection. If $210 billion sounds like a big cushion, it's not. The government has recently been running annual deficits in the $1 trillion range.

Neither the budget office nor the White House had any immediate reaction late Monday to the new estimates.

"Taken as a whole, the enactment of the (health care law) has substantially worsened a dire federal fiscal outlook," Blahous wrote in his 52-page analysis, released by George Mason University's Mercatus Center. "The (law) both increases a federal commitment to health care spending that was already unsustainable under prior law and would exacerbate projected federal deficits relative to prior law."

ELISI — April 10, 2012 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk,
I thought his statement on an open Mike to the Russian President was Stupid as well as his comment to the Supreme court on his State of the Union speech. "Stupid is sir as Stupid Does Sir" so I can agree with the R Sen... And the City council too... on there most recent vote.. Can't figure out why the other 3 memebers didn't vote that way as well.. Oh yea it's politics and it's not suppose to be practical thinkers... Just Lemmings...

vanwadreamer — April 10, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, AP 8:01 am

By Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, The Associated Press 9:58 am

Same article.

-----------------------------------
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/bogus-obamacare-deficit-study.html

langenthal — April 10, 2012 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Santorum Suspends His Campaign, 2 Advisers Say

Rick Santorum is suspending his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination on Tuesday, according to two people with knowledge of his plans.

Mr. Santorum is due to make the announcement at a stop in his home state of Pennsylvania after a weekend in which he tended to his three-year-old daughter, Bella, who had been hospitalized with pneumonia.

The decision abruptly ends his quest for the Republican presidential nomination after weeks in which he has struggled to compete with Mitt Romney’s well-financed, highly-organized campaign apparatus.

***Looks like Romney finally outspent him.***

hawkeye — April 10, 2012 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye, I think his mouth helped do him in too.

ELISI — April 10, 2012 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yea, money talks. At least billionaires don't have to buy politicians behind closed doors anymore, they can purchase them in the light of day thanks to our Supreme Court. Wait until they begin to throw money at partisian judgeship races, then they'll own everything, lock, stock, and barrel. And I thought buying judges was for Mexican drug lords and the Mafia....

mrd — April 10, 2012 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***And in other campaign news***

Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich may not appear on the ballot for the June 26 Utah primary, after a $500 check - the required filing fee - ***bounced***, an official said.

State election director Mark Thomas told ABC News that a $500 check given by the Gingrich campaign to secure his place on the Utah ballot bounced on March 27.

"Our office immediately attempted to contact the campaign and the designated agent but no phone calls were returned," Thomas said. "We also asked the state Republican Party to assist us, but they also could not get into communication with them, although I do not know how they attempted to contact them."

One source close to the campaign told ABC News that the Gingrich campaign recently changed finance and accounting staff. The designated agent who filed the paperwork for the campaign was Wallace Woodruff "Woody" Hales, though Hales still works for the Gingrich campaign.

If the fee is not paid by April 20, Gingrich will be disqualified from the ballot.

hawkeye — April 10, 2012 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have two questions about the article that says some sellers were not informed about the tax for C-Tran going into effect.

Why are you in business if you are not up to date with the taxes around here? Second, why would you use a bookkeeper who fails to notify your business of these changes??

Hey, here's another one. What is happening to all that money being collected for mental health?? Did it, and does it still help the mentally ill that are on the street. Maybe the Big C can do a follow up on the state of the mentally ill since the tax was OK'd. Since that money was specific for mental health did it survive the cutbacks??

JohnCasey — April 11, 2012 at 5:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


the newt's "health care think tank", aka Gingrich Group, LLC, has filed chapter 7 bankruptcy. Small wonder-here's his track record:

Since 1984, Gingrich has launched 12 politically oriented organizations and initiatives based in Washington. Of those, five have been investigated by the Internal Revenue Service and the House Ethics Committee, another five closed down with debts totaling more than $500,000, and two were subject to legal action.

mrd — April 11, 2012 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow shocking!

*The death of rock guitarist Ronnie Montrose, who formed an eponymous band in the 1970s and played with heavy hitters such as Van Morrison and Herbie Hancock, has been ruled a suicide.
The San Francisco Chronicle reports ( http://bit.ly/Hqcl67) the San Mateo County coroner has concluded that Montrose took his own life last month at his home in Millbrae, Calif.
His widow, Leighsa Montrose, tells the newspaper that her 64-year-old husband was tormented by clinical depression for much of his life. She says he suffered from severe self-doubt that caused him to harshly evaluate his performances, even on nights audiences gave him multiple standing ovations.*

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, we're hearing more and more lately about famous folks in the music industry passing away from suspicious deaths...only to find out the conclusion drawn is due to suicide. Truly sad.

..

hehehe....lololol!!! I've been wondering why we haven't been seeing posts by nailingit...figuring he'd taken a well-deserved sabbatical, so I went back a couple of weeks to see if he was still around.

Nail, I see you're still switching your avatars regularly, so we know you're still around. Your comments are well worth sharing as you spark quite a debate of discussion. Maybe some time soon you'll return??? BTW, nice one on Grandma's!!! It brought a smile to my face!

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


An ultra lefty???

I've never known anybody who was a lefty who would allow themselves to be silenced like this. They're pretty headstrong, you know...and they're not afraid to speak their minds, either.

I'm thinking he's a closet conservative.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm thinking he's pissed off at Matt and won't come back until something REALLY important to him comes up. As far as "ultra" anything goes, nailingit is a little to the left of center but has a good knowledge of balance for everything liberal and conservative.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


P'd off at Matt? For WHAT? Because Matt was doing what he was paid to do, to monitor the forum and keep it running according to the terms and guidelines clearly stated and gently reminded with each week's new forum??? All anybody has to do Hawkeye, is follow the rules on this website. If they don't, then they're in deep water if they're not too careful.

There's an old saying we've all heard before..."You reap what you sow" similar to the reference to "Karma." Sounds to me like someone is not angry at Matt...but more like CrazyTrain said at 9:27 "...he thought he could say whatever pleases him. Never taking in consideration of others."

..

Anyhow...in other news, it appears Mr. Zimmerman could be facing an arrest soon...which would be good because it will clear up the air whether or not the guy will either be convicted or acquitted. Hopefully when this is all said and done, the families will have closure in this whole mess.

Also...it's quite an active event going on in Indonesia with the 8.6 earthquake and an 8.2 aftershock. They didn't have any tsunami issues because of the side to side motion. I checked the USGS site and these earthquakes weren't very deep.

Another bit of news...the voyage of a cruise ship that is recounting the Titanic left Southampton on the same day the Titanic left port...one hundred years later. In the article I read, it said relatives of those who died on the Titanic are attending this cruise. Rather interesting and quite a memory maker for the families.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seaking of balance (or lack of it) Rep. West R-Fla claims there are 78 Communists in the House. He said all members of the Dem Progressive Causus are "card carrying Marxists" and the leader "doesn't understand this country because he's a practicing Muslim".

And this guy has been named as a possible VP candidate??!! The R's are really scraping the bottom or maybe it's just a desperate attempt to fire up the more conservative folks?

mrd — April 11, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is arrested won't prove a thing or settle anything. Also, it won't matter if he is acquitted. The only thing that will make anyone happy will be if he is convicted of 1st degree murder and executed. That's the ONLY way things will calm down for a while. I really don't think he is guilty of that (from all the info I have gleaned) at most I think he may be guilty of (not knowing the laws) assault with a deadly weapon.

As for nailingit being justified in his anger, I didn't make a judgement on that. Anger has no reason.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whew, finally finished with shopping done for the son's trip next month.
I hope he enjoys the trip, one of a life time. 3 days in Hawaii before boarding the ship.
Not every civilian gets a chance to spend a week at sea aboard an U.S. Nimitz class aircraft carrier.

Too bad those who are so against a military defense fund can't go on one to see the inter-works of our Navy or spend a week in uniform walking/working/flying along side our Army, Marine, and Air Force troops.

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye and Golden..

Doesn't matter now if he is acquitted, the damage has been done.
If he is found guilty, I think like Hawkeye said, it will not be good enough unless they hang him.

The media did a good job screwing up this story, using old pictures to make Martin look like a 10 to 12 yr old boy, and Zimmerman like a convict. If anyone out there thinks Zimmerman will receive a fair trial, they are fooling themselves. Like I said, the damage has been done. Might as well save the taxpayers the cost and just take Zimmerman straight to prison and set the date for execution. Then maybe in ten yrs or so we might get the truth to what really happened that night.

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.

The one thing we know that happened is that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed child.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.

"The media did a good job screwing up this story, using old pictures to make Martin look like a 10 to 12 yr old boy, and Zimmerman like a convict"

Zimmerman **IS** a convict, he was charged with felony assault on a peace officer and pleaded to misdemeanor resisting arrest. This makes Zimmerman a **Convict**.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fro, did he go to prison for his crime? If not, not a convict. As for shooting an unarmed child, he was very close to being 18. To me, that's NOT a child. That is a young adult. Also, if it's true that Zimmerman was assaulted by Treyvon, knocked down and had his nose broken and the back of his head bashed into the ground, he could be justified in shooting. ***BUT WE WEREN'T THERE SO HOW CAN WE JUDGE***

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.

First, If convicted, which he was he is a convict, that is the definition of the word.

Second, Martin was years away from being legally able to carry a weapon to defend himself, that makes him a child in this case.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 11, 2012 at 2:43 p.m

"Second, Martin was years away from being legally able to carry a weapon to defend himself, that makes him a child in this case."

Or months away from being in the military, which makes him an adult.

Spin it anyway you want, if someone was bashing YOUR head in, and you had a gun, I'd bet you wouldn't ask to see his ID.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's things like this Zimmerman fiasco that cause white people to become nearly as racist as the blacks. Maybe he should file a lawsuit against the televsion networks, Jesse Jackson, and even obama, since all; of them have already decided Zimmerman is guilty. It's for sure, he can't get a fair trial, which is guaranteed under our constitution. Apparently, even obama doesn't know that.

cranky — April 11, 2012 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, I didn't realize the definition of "adult" was the ability to be armed legally.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

Martin is/was not a child.. he was weeks away from being of

1.legal age considered by the law of this land

2. legal to vote

3. legal to marry without a parent or court permission

4. join and serve this country in the military

5. in this state able legally to carry a shot gun or long rifle

6. old enough to father a child and be held responsible for support of that child in a court of law

7. and in some states legal to drink beer

Martin a child? No he was a young adult.

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 1:53: I highly recommend he observe an arresting gear engine operate (if it's possible). He won't ever forget it ;^)

Drift — April 11, 2012 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELSI,
Spot on with your 2:11 comment... I wish your son the best and so true on the funding.... We will see ours back from Afganistan in two months...As far as Zimmerman being arrested. I agree with hawk as well... Much pressure put on the PA and so they do this to appease the Black community for a while, then after he gets set free it will all start up again..IMHO
FRO, good try but turn things around a bit and say Trevon Killed Zimmerman, He would be tried in this state and most all states as an adult...Its not Patato / Pototoe in this case. If he had a club and beat Zimmerman to death it's called a weapon. How do you come up with this crap and think this way...

vanwadreamer — April 11, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift,

He will be bunking in near one of the magazines just above the reactors. His buddy that submitted his name for the Tiger Cruise is in weapons. My son is interested in electronics tech.

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Too bad those who are so against a military defense fund can't go on one to see the inter-works of our Navy or spend a week in uniform walking/working/flying along side our Army, Marine, and Air Force troops.

I assume by "military defense fund" you mean the federal government's bloated defense budget? The one that's larger than the rest of the world's combined? Why wouldn't the same activities you mentioned be possible without draining the treasury to the extent we do for military spending? Also, being against such outrageous military spending does not, in my case anyway, translate into an anti-military mindset. I realize that billions of those dollars pour back into the American economy.

I do respect the commitment serving requires, and I'm sure that reflects in your pride in your son. Hope he continues to make you proud.

mrd — April 11, 2012 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — April 11, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.

"How do you come up with this crap and think this way...?

It's called facts, you ought to try looking at them sometime...but I guess we both know that will never happen.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, I think you are getting the definition of convict mixed up. There are actually three ways the word is utilized in a sentence. Here, let me explain.

To use the word convict as an adjective, would have "ed" like "He was a convict*ed* criminal."

To use the word convict as a verb...it is an action "You must convict the criminal."

To use the word convict as a noun...such as you are, the actual definition is "A person found guilty of a criminal offense and serving a sentence of imprisonment."

Depending on the extent of the misdemeanor charge, he might have just had to pay a fine or community service. That would not make him a convict.

I hope I've been helpful.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ooohhh...Vanwadreamer, I wish a wonderful family reunion for you and your son!!! How cool is that!!!

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.

According to Websters.

Convict, having been found guilty.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you go back to Websters online...if that's where you got it from, there's a little shaded area above your example. You will note the three letters which say "adj." next to the word. Above that, you will note the three selections, the noun as the third. Click on that and you will see what I speak of.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert...here's the link I'm using:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convict

Is it the same as yours???

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Shake...rattle and roll!!!!

Wow...more aftershocks in Indonesia, an 8.0 earthquake in Mexico and a 5.9 off the Oregon Coast today!!!

Interesting.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:11 p.m.

Okay, let me reword it George Zimmerman is a criminal, Trayvon Martin was not.

I guess you guys are fine with convicted criminals gunning down CHILDREN. Yes under the laws of the State of Florida he was a child.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually Frobert, I'm not fine with this situation. I just think the families involved have a right to get this taken care of. I'm actually glad the man cooperated and was arrested. The trial will be the deciding factor. I'm quite unsettled with him in possession of a weapon but the law in Florida appeared to be a bit lacking, considering he'd knocked a cop on his keester. Regarding Florida law, a 16 year old can acquire emancipation from his or her parents. Trayvon was turning 18 in a couple of months. That would make him legally entitled to vote, to stay out past curfew and to join the military, should he have chosen. And according to Florida law...they are considered minors, not children.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay...hold on folks...

I think Frobert has a good point about labeling Trayvon as a child in the State of Florida. It's called the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act which clearly speaks of a minor *child* under the age of 18 although other documents refer to them only as minors. Guess it's understandable why their laws are so confusing.

Either way though...there's a lot of unanswered questions.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 5:22 p.m

He wasn't turning 18, he had just turned 17, 21 days prior to his murder.

The right to keep and bear arms can be revoked for a felony conviction only.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

*I assume by "military defense fund" you mean the federal government's bloated defense budget? The one that's larger than the rest of the world's combined? Why wouldn't the same activities you mentioned be possible without draining the treasury to the extent we do for military spending?*

It's larger mrd, cause we do have the largest armed forces. Largest cause, even tho maybe you and I and others don't like or agree to being the "world police", we are. Fact.

Let me ask you mrd, if you were in the military, deployed to a foreign land to fight or guard whatever, wouldn't you want the best there is in technology as far as weapons goes for not only your own protection but that of your fellow troops? Or would you feel safe in using say.. a rifle that was used in WW11 or Vietnam against the ones available of today? Would you feel safe sent out as scout or in a heated battle not wearing body armor? Would you ride in a vehicle in Iraq or Afghanistan that the bottoms hasn't been re-enforced with all the IED's? Or the military stop the use of drones and bomb robots...yeah stop spending money on those too, the lives they might save by defusing and spying on the enemy isn't needed. Oh and we best stop maintenance on all ships, vehicles, aircraft to keep them up to date.

Oh and maybe you'd like our troops to live in tents, and eat MRE's instead of food like is set before you at night at your dinner table.

Best stop the president and his family from using Air Force 1 and 2 also Marine 1 and 2, since they are maintained, crewed by military. Also best stop senators and congress from the use of military aircraft to fly to and from their home states to DC each week.

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for clarifying that, Frobert. I stand corrected on his age, even though he was within that final year when teens try to act older than their given age. I don't know how many times I've heard 17 year olds say..."I'm almost eighteen, Dad. Stop treating me like a child!!!"

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert @5:39 pm states "The right to keep and bear arms can be revoked for a felony conviction only."

Maybe that's partly why the crime rates involving guns are so high.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, one more question for you...

Do you think it is right for people in the public eye...let's say, Mike Tyson for instance...to say what he did regarding George Zimmerman? As far as I'm concerned, Tyson should have kept his thoughts to himself. If that's not inciting violence...then what is???

Check it out:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mike-tyson-trayvon-martin-case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops...that was two questions.

goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 11, 2012 at 6:24 p.m.

As a libertarian, I have to say Mr. Tyson is the only one who should be deciding what he should say.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

What about what Spike Lee did...posting Zimmermans home address etc...

What Lee and Tyson done and said very disgusting!

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


anybody up for a race war?

DeeLittle — April 11, 2012 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The right to keep and bear arms can be revoked for a felony conviction only. -- frobert — April 11, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.

Not entirely true - Lautenberg also applies to misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, and an active restraining order (with no conviction at all) for domestic violence. This would have applied to Zimmerman back in 2005/06 - the charge was apparently never filed, and the restraining order had to have been expired for him to have received a gun permit.

Zimmerman's attorneys dumping him, and his calling Sean Hannity to be interviewed, gives a pretty clear message that this guy is playing his 15 minutes for all it's worth. He's toast, and I'm betting Stand Your Ground is going to be the second victim of this shooting.

roger — April 11, 2012 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 6:58 p.m

What Spike Lee did was improper and the wronged family should seek restitution using the court system.

Even more disgusting, is the assignation of Martin's character, on forums like this one, unlike Zimmerman, Martin had a clear record.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert, I have not seen anyone on this forum say anything against Martin.

If anything most here that I have seen have said like I have, that we do not know all of the facts. Not taking sides on this.

Zimmerman had an altercation with the police 7+ yrs ago. Nothing to warrant the media, you and others to make out that he is a harden criminal.
So are you saying because he hit an officer of the law over 7 yrs ago he should wear a brand on his forehead that he is guilty forever?

frobert, really think about what you are saying, I repeat;
WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS.

Facts as I see it;

1. The mis-use of photos to make people think that Martin was a small child and Zimmerman was a criminal right out of prison.

2. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, Tyson and others should have kept their mouths shut. As community leaders they should show compassion and support to the Martin family and that's it. These men have along with the media has stirred the pot, bordering on pushing for a race war.

Do you frobert really think, that Martin Luther King would have handled this situation like these men have?

ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal



What I'm saying is, nobody's perfect and we don't know everything. As far as that goes, we are going to hear EVERYTHING there is to know about these two people whether we want to or not. Frankly, I think I'm quite done with the whole overblown thing.

Why aren't we talking about that mob robbery the other night at that little quick market when 15 or 20 KIDS just walked into the store and picked up whatever they wanted and walked out. Why the hell aren't we unhappy about that? Why aren't we pissed about that?

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 11, 2012 at 9:04 p.m.

I usually find Sharpton and Jackson annoying, in this case however, they did their job and finally got a proper investigation. Lee and Tyson are not community leaders and their statements are totally irrelevant.

My comments on Zimmerman's history have been in response to lies and speculation concerning Martin.

It was a travesty that the local prosecution was trying to sweep this under the rug. If they had done their job in the first place there would have been no opening for Sharpton and Jackson.

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.

What does that have to do with a child murder and his quest for donations?

frobert — April 11, 2012 at 10:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 11, 2012 at 10:15 p.m.

What are you talking about? Take your meds, fro.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 11:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An observation on this case - for whatever little it may be worth. I don't know whether Nancy Grace merely reflects public opinion or actually plays a major role in forming it. I watched her show for a little while last night to see what her spin on this is - she was pretty neutral. Her repeated reference to a 17 year old boy, and a couple of other things, gives me the idea she's leaning toward Zimmerman being guilty. So far, though, she's pretty calm - nothing like with "Tot Mom" and the guy in Calif a few years ago. Perhaps we do have more to learn?

What got my attention on the show was a little discussion on Stand Your Ground. If Zimmerman was following Martin, and Martin suddenly turned on him, perhaps Martin was in fact the one exercising his rights under this law? And if true, is there a certain point where Zimmerman's right to exercise it kicked in? There was a general agreement that we're going to have a long time deciding this before the murder trial even starts - if Zimmerman is found to have been legit under Stand Your Ground, the charge will have to be dropped.

She also had an expert of some kind saying Zimmerman's broken nose and head trauma could have been caused by having the pistol by his face when it went off - the kickback could have caused all of this. Interesting. The scenario where I can envision the gun being by his face is that he'd already drawn it, and Martin attacked him in response (a defensive reaction?). If Martin rushed him first, and Zimmerman pulled the gun as a defensive response, I'd think he would have been firing more from his waist area or lower chest. And if the barrel would have been pushed upward in the struggle, then there'd have been burns to Zimmerman's face.

That and $5 buys me a coffee. But hang on - This should take a while. And Eric Holder saying the Feds are going to conduct their own investigation isn't going to accomplish anything useful. His implication is that Zimmerman committed a hate crime, and the Feds are going to make sure justice is done. This has Zimmerman already convicted, and unable to get a fair trial.

roger — April 12, 2012 at 5:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Whoa, whoa, whoa...wait a second here, Frobert. Your comment at 7:58 p.m. is inciting needless controversy which puts you very close in arms to those who have sensationalized the entire situation in order to gain notoriety. Both parties involved in that incident back in February had a bit of a history. That is FACT! To try to picture either person as one without issues is a FALLACY! This has been blown way out of proportion internationally and it will be very difficult to provide an end to this issue without prejudice. To have folks in the public eye say what they are saying about Zimmerman...that too is inciting controversy.

We all can agree we want justice served and the truth WILL prevail. It just might take awhile before that happens.

goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye at 9:40 p.m...

The kids in the flash mob robbery have not all been identified, although some of them...their own parents have turned them in. Zimmerman was identified. Nobody was injured or killed in the flash mob robbery...just some groceries taken...and the manager of the store chased them off with a weapon...a baseball bat which was caught on video. No weapons were displayed.

In that incidence...there should be a designated limit to how many teens can enter the store at one time. I know some stores already hold to that mindset which is pretty effective.

goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"It's larger mrd, cause we do have the largest armed forces. Largest cause, even tho maybe you and I and others don't like or agree to being the "world police", we are. Fact."

True, it is a fact, and that's the problem. Because it is a fact, does that mean it has to be that way? Again, virtually all the things you mentioned would still be possible, just on a smaller scale. We always hear that spending on SS is "unsustainable", it seems defense spending is equally so.

Even with all the money we spend, it doesn't guarantee success. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan-many claim those campaigns to be abject failures. As long as our politicians use the military for political purposes-regime change or in attempt to "spread democracy", success in war is doubtful, or very limited and Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are prime examples.

mrd — April 12, 2012 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, are you aware of the procedures the police and court system must go through in order to get an arrest and conviction anywhere in the US? Some crimes go without an arrest for many months...even years. I believe the State of Florida was acting in accordance with other states, given the laws set in their state.

goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 6:59 a.m.

The first step is always to conduct a proper investigation. The original investigator, Chris Serino, felt that the preliminary evidence in this case called for detaining Zimmerman and gathering forensic evidence. The Prosecuting attorney and the police chief overruled him and stopped him from looking into the matter.

If the "stand your ground law" is misapplied and used to allow child killers to go free, it legalizes all murder without provable premeditation.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert

Although I am no attorney and am no cop, it still would make sense to me not to rush into an arrest...given the fact that the state of Florida does have the Stand Your Ground law...they did their work in a timel manner. The timing of the arrest is not the issue. Gathering enough evidence to support the arrest for a conviction is the issue and there's always someone who is quick to sue the police departments in anywhere USA for false arrest and false imprisonment. In my opinion, it was done correctly.

goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert...one question. From your comment at 7:33 am, do you think George Zimmerman planned to shoot and kill Trayvon Martin...almost as though he'd been stalking the young man? I believe he was packing for his own protection.

Just take a look around and see what's happening even here in Clark County or Portland!!! Folks are vamping up their neighborhood watch for a reason. There's a record number of permits to carry a concealed weapon and more households have firearms for protection. Houses are being robbed for just about anything including the food they contain and people are being killed by the perpetrators.

Also Frobert, the neighborhood George Zimmerman lives is a gated community which I believe would have a heightened sense of urgency to watch their surroundings. Yes, Trayvon's dad's girlfriend lives in the same community as the reasoning was that Trayvon was leaving from her house.

I guess we won't know for sure why Zimmerman was packing but I have a feeling it stems from issues of crime in their neighborhood or maybe problems he'd had in the past which warranted his need to pack. And in my opinion, if any person finds the need to carry a weapon to be used in self defense, they'd better be willing to accept the fact that they may have to take a life with that weapon and face the music after the fact. More times than not, a poor decision was made and this is definitely one of those times. I certainly wouldn't want to be in Zimmerman's shoes!!!

Either way...it was the wrong place at the wrong time for young Trayvon no matter his level of innocence. Of course, the best memories will be the first ones to be publicized. I have a feeling we'll be hearing a lot more about both sides of the case in months to come when it does reach the courtroom. Nobody will be protected from the news on any dirt brought up in court unless the information is sequestered

goldenoldie — April 12, 2012 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 9:40 p.m

I'm with you Hawkeye, I'm done with it.
Can't reason with anyone that all they see is "it's a race thing" or "child killer".

As far as flash mobs, they do it cause they know they can get away with it. They feel that they are someway, some how "entitled".
It's the attitude that many adults put out there for the kids to see and learn from. Heck even our very own government sends that message.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 12, 2012 at 6:57 a.m

*Even with all the money we spend, it doesn't guarantee success. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan-many claim those campaigns to be abject failures. As long as our politicians use the military for political purposes-regime change or in attempt to "spread democracy", success in war is doubtful, or very limited and Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are prime examples.*

Kennedy knew Vietnam was un-winnable. He had plans to pull the advisory group and the few troops he had there out.
Johnson knew this, yet after he took office, powers that be (big banks, corporations that was set to make big money off of) pushed to pour the troops in. That is exactly what Johnson did.

Do a little bit of homework mrd. Check out China's ground troop numbers compare them to ours. Also check out the carriers, and subs, missiles, etc.
Then one has to look at chemicals countries like Pakistan and others have.

The only way to ensure the safety and well being of this country, is to close the borders, throw everyone that isn't an American citizen out. Let no one in or out. Even doing that at today's numbers we still do not have enough troops to cover the total miles of this country let alone the populace.
You soon forget the downsizing of the military that Clinton did.
Closing forts and bases. This is why so many of our troops has been send 3, 4, 5 times on deployment to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Even rotation deployment of our National Guard which by the way was set up to protect the U.S. while the full time service personal is away on foreign soil and to help during an emergency like we had with Katrina.

We have to stop being the world police, but yet America is known to step up to the plate to help out other countries and we are the first they look too. If we stop, well, look at how the countries view us now, what would it be like if we stopped helping them? It's a damned if you, damned if you don't situation.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELSI

"We have to stop being the world police"

that says it all. the whole world knows we are broke and can't afford to do it anymore, so if we're going to be damned anyway, do the smart thing and downsize the military.

It seems I hear a lot of talk about "protecting American interests" to justify these excursions. I'm beginning to wonder whose interests the politicians are really protecting, and I seriously doubt their mine or yours.

mrd — April 12, 2012 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd ever notice that after we go to the rescue of these countries, they turn on us? THAT is what really ticks me off!

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's a very good article written quite rationally.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120412/D9U3GG480.html

It reflects my concerns as well. They charged Zimmerman with "second degree murder" and that's going to be extremely difficult to prove. Manslaughter, on the other hand, would be much easier but it's not on the table.

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, wouldn't 2nd degree fall into the "negligent" category?

Manslaughter would be "premeditated"?

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think it's the other way around.

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi-you've got to be careful to distinguish a rescue from a regime change, or a claim to spread democracy, etc. When the military invades and the shooting starts, usually the merits of a rescue, if they actually exist, are long gone. If, for example, the Chinese were to invade the US to rescue us from ourselves, no matter how good their intentions were, we'd be shooting at them from behind every tree, rock, and house. It's kinda like "our government may be a mess, but we don't want you over here trying to fix it".
When I was in college, I attempted to stop a guy that was taking a pool cue to another guy. My intentions were good, or so I thought, but all I had to show for it was a broken nose. Never again. As the old saying goes, "There ain't no learning from the second kick of a mule". This country's been kicked enough, or so it seems.

mrd — April 12, 2012 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal



"While second degree murder is the charge, if the jury is unable to find Zimmerman guilty of that, Dennis says they could find him guilty of manslaughter. It's considered a lesser included offense.

"This is something that has to be decided by a jury or a judge," said Dennis.

Dennis adds that the prosecutor has until a jury is sworn in to add or subtract any charges."

*That doesn't seem fair, ALL charges should be posted at least three weeks before the trial. Otherwise, how can the defense build a proper defense?*

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Don't know Hawkeye this whole thing stinks..

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Moreover, the contentious issue of plea bargains in the US makes a macabre mockery of a justice system where innocent defendants are pressurised to enter into plea negotiations. In turn, the vulnerability, rights and morality of the innocent are exploited to produce results for the US legal system, where 95 per cent of all convictions are secured with a guilty plea, most of them through plea bargaining.

This little factoid doesn't seem to bode well for Zimmerman, he might plead down to manslaughter, especially if a sentencing recommendation is thrown in. Pack him off to prison until this blows over, and it's a win/win, except for Zimmerman.

Had a brother in law take 45 days & probation rather than risk 4-7 years. I don't to this day think he was guilty of anything, but he is now.

mrd — April 12, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They have to resolve Stand Your Ground first. If the defense can find a way to prove that Martin came at Zimmerman, and that Stand kicked in - Zimmerman walks.

And no matter what the decision with that, there will be an appeal or two; that will push a murder trial down the road a bit.

roger — April 12, 2012 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 12, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.

Zimmerman was the "original aggressor" under Florida law, thus raising the bar for him to prove that "stand your ground" applied. Zimmerman also had 40lbs on Martin and had martial arts training. The burden of proof lies with the defense for dismissal under this statute.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Everybody says that Zimmerman was "stalking" Martin. I believe the correct term would be "surveilling".

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

I don't like vigilantes, nor laws that permit this. But just about everything we've heard about this incident has been contradicted by something else. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out in court.

The latest picture - at his arraignment - shows Zimmerman is kind of a small guy. Martin was taller, and had to carry some weight to be able to play high school football in that part of Florida. I'm not sure where you're getting the physical comparisons, but I'm skeptical of them.

What constitutes martial arts training? This could mean anything from standing around in a dojo learning a few katas to actually having the capability of being quite dangerous. And if he was such a tough guy, I'm surprised he found using a gun necessary.

I'm just hoping we actually get to the truth. Florida has their law to try to protect, and the US Attorney General appears quite eager to turn this into a hate crime. This has the potential to turn into another OJ trial.

roger — April 12, 2012 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Zimmerman should not have followed young Martin to begin with. After a certain point. That much seems obvious. After that, nothing else is clear. And BTW, Martin was not a resident of that gated community. He was visting his father. It seems unlikely that there had been any prior contact.

Things are not always as they appear to be. It is the best reason for having courts of law. Otherwise: the Ox-bow incident.

In other business, there should be absolutley no doubt, that nail is a leftist extremist. As is the lately departed basil. As well as luv and manthou. I suspect that luv and manthou will not even disagree with with me on this.

Please join with me now, and put all of this behind us, and engage in a bit of musical comradery.

[I like to rock and roll][1]

Almost as good as Beethovin’s 5th

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-7QrnEChTE

kn_dalai — April 12, 2012 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.

When Zimmerman left his vehicle and chased after Martin it became stalking. By stalking I am referring to the actual definition, not the legal definition.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: I would beg to differ. I am no extremist. Can we stop the name-calling, please? When did I ever call you a name? Why do we always have to have polarity? I have much more fun finding common ground.

I'd be happy to engage in discussion here, however.

No one has mentioned the fantastic column that Kathleen Parker wrote today. She is conservative and I usually agree with her, kn_dalai. I could not find one fault with her opinion today and have been saying similar things myself on here lately:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/ap...

manthou — April 12, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd @ 12:15: Good points.

frobert: On the Zimmerman case, I have been following your comments and am with you 100% in all of them, for what that's worth.

This is going to be a controversial case if it goes to trial. What I see being argued in the court of public opinion will be echoed in the jury room. I cannot imagine coming to agreement.

manthou — April 12, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.

"mrd ever notice that after we go to the rescue of these countries, they turn on us? THAT is what really ticks me off!"

Could that we are only "rescuing" them from our point of view, not theirs. Maybe, us invading them ticks them off.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-fires-fox-mole-gawker-142543473.html

The C needs to hire this guy.

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i'm saying a prayer for an anonymous pharmacist for what s/he did today. i got some of my meds today. that reeking hell that is gvt healthcare is still at it, but i finally have some medication.

for those of you so inclined, say a little prayer for her/him, and that you can go THERE for help if you're caught on the gvt flypaper like i am.

DeeLittle — April 12, 2012 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - Running for the Senate in Massachusetts, Mitt Romney once assured voters in a state with strong gun-control laws: "I don't line up with the NRA." Now the likely Republican presidential nominee, Romney will headline the National Rifle Association's annual convention Friday and assure tens of thousands of gun-rights activists that he's squarely on their side.

***Flip and or Flop***

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, had you gone to Wilsonville, you could have scored some Oxy. There was more than enough to go around.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/ap...

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Could that we are only "rescuing" them from our point of view, not theirs. Maybe, us invading them ticks them off.*

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 5:27 p.m

frobert, when you answer this I'll comment on your post above.

The Martin/Zimmerman case..how the general public, media, the family, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton is handling this, is it what MLK would have done or more like the works of Malcom X?

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.

With Jackson and Sharpton, at least with this case we have seen peaceful marches and an insistent call for justice. That would definitely be channeling MLK more then Malcolm X.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 6:49 p.m

Hawkeye, don't you think Romney or anyone for that fact can be for strict gun control but yet agree to the right to be armed law?

I think we all have the right to be armed. I also think a person should have to be certified, take a firearm class or whatever to get that certificate. Have a ID checked etc etc.
It's not everyday normal person that kills others or uses the guns in a crime, it's the criminal.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I guess I HAVE to chime in now...

kn, I might be very left leaning, very liberal, and I am not ashamed of it. Last time I looked, it's perfectly okay and perfectly legal to be left leaning and a good liberal.

I take offense with you adding the word extremist though - shortly before you ask us all to stop and put it all behind us and do a little kumbaja together. That was obviously not meant to be a term of endearment. So why don't you stop it?

You are obviously a politically right leaning person, but I have not called you an extremist either. As a fine liberal, I abstain from calling a fellow cellar dweller such a name.

luvithere — April 12, 2012 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok frobert, then my answer to your earlier post is..

Maybe the use of "rescue" was wrong cause in many cases it is "aid"

Either way, rescue or aid, these countries find fault some way some how with our help.
They ask for the help or "rescue" then turn on us.
No matter what the US does it is wrong. Even if we gave up everything to save another country, starved our people, live in tents and caves, we'd still be looked upon as the bad guy.

I'm just tired of the crap and think we need to focus on our own people and needs, put them first and if anything is left over then help others.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:26 p.m

"I think we all have the right to be armed."

If you put conditions on it is no longer a right. The people have the right to keep and bear arms, and a responsibility to not use them recklessly.

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh and frobert..

If a country "asks" or "begs" for help either the people of or the head of said country, then our "aid" or "rescue" can not be considered an invasion.

Invade:

1.
to enter forcefully as an enemy; go into with hostile intent: Germany invaded Poland in 1939.
2.
to enter like an enemy: Locusts invaded the fields.
3.
to enter as if to take possession: to invade a neighbor's home.
4.
to enter and affect injuriously or destructively, as disease: viruses that invade the bloodstream.
5.
to intrude upon: to invade the privacy of a family.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 12, 2012 at 7:37 p.m

If we didn't have SOME restrictions, what do you think it would be like in this country?

One wouldn't be able to walk down the streets without someone pulling a gun on them.

I think most of us understand that with anything we must have some restrictions (laws) to be enforced to make it safe for all not just a few.

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.

to enter forcefully as an enemy; go into with hostile intent

Like Iraq?
Like Afghanistan?
Like we are talking about with Iran?

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- As far as "ultra" anything goes, nailingit is a little to the left of center but has a good knowledge of balance for everything liberal and conservative.

hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

*It took my campaign manager to set the record straight! hawk, consider those outstanding bills in Hawaii paid in full. Thinking next brainstorming trip should be in a 3rd world country. The melons are ripe this time of year!*

manthou- frobert: On the Zimmerman case, I have been following your comments and am with you 100% in all of them, for what that's worth.

*I am also. Hey, somethings wrong here! fro seems to be the closest to what a "Libertarian" is. Something must be wrong with the "leftist extremists"!*

*manthou- Good evening! I don't think kn_d means to insult. Some are happier with labels. It makes life and liberty easier to understand (without the gray) and is prevalent in the conservative movement. It makes our constitution easier for some to understand. A recent study conducted by Maryland U bears this out. Not to insult Kn_d, I almost envy this thought process. Almost. Conservatives by definition are opposed to change and differing ideas. The thinking/reasoning processes from the ones that lean hard right seem to be constricted by self-imposed regulation and evidenced by the outward paranoia and prejudices labeling brings. Name calling and bigotry happen everywhere, just more common with the conservative movement. (according to recent studies) :))*

"I say again: Leftist are totalitarians. Government is force. Government is necessary. No doubt. It's the limited idea you people have a problem with. No doubt, envy has a lot to do with it. Be careful, some day they may come for you."

March 17, 2012 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore Use

"...there should be absolutley no doubt, that nail is a leftist extremist. As is the lately departed basil. As well as luv and manthou. I suspect that luv and manthou will not even disagree with with me on this.

"Please join with me now, and put all of this behind us..." {:))

*As tactful as a bull in a China shop, while pretentiously assuming a role of warmth and understanding. *Some things never change.....what up Knd?**

nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert, check in to why Germany invades Poland..

Then come back and let me know if this is why we went to Afghanistan and Iraq

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 7:56 p.m.

The Gleiwitz incident, not so different from fake WMD's

frobert — April 12, 2012 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Welcome back! What took you so long? I appreciate your perspective on the need-to-label. I will accept lots of them, but "extremist?" Hardly.

Now, if kn_d had accused me of being a Libertarian or even Libertine, I would have agreed. :)

Don't be such a stranger from now on, nail......

manthou — April 12, 2012 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Cochise resident must pay illegal entrants $87,000
US Supreme Court turns away rancher Barnett in assault case**

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld a 2009 ruling against Cochise County rancher Roger Barnett, forcing him to pay about $87,000 in damages related to his assault of illegal immigrants on his ranch in 2004.

The decision comes after the same ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in February.

The court disagreed with the arguments made in the appeal, which included a claim that U.S. District Judge John Roll made errors while presiding over the 2009 trial. Roll was one of six people killed in the Jan. 8 mass shooting in Tucson.

In that February 2009 trial, a federal jury issued a split verdict in the case against Barnett stemming from the 2004 incident. The jury found he didn't violate the group's civil rights and that he wasn't liable on claims of battery and false imprisonment.

But the jury found him liable on four claims of assault and four claims of infliction of emotional distress, and ordered Barnett to pay $77,804 in damages. The $87,000 he must pay reflects that original amount plus interest.

The 2004 incident occurred near Douglas when Barnett approached a group of 16 illegal immigrants while he was carrying a gun and accompanied by a large dog. Attorneys for the plaintiffs - five women and 11 men who had crossed into the U.S. illegally - say Barnett held the group captive at gunpoint, threatening that his dog would attack and that he would shoot anyone who tried to escape.

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund applauded the ruling against the "vigilante" rancher.

"Roger Barnett can hide no more behind his frivolous appeal," said Marisa Bono of the organization. "It is time for Barnett to pay the victims for his deplorable actions."

Barnett's legal team says he is no vigilante and was only acting in self-defense on that 2004 day.

This is the second case in which a ruling has been upheld against Barnett. In February 2008, the Arizona Court of Appeals refused to throw out a jury verdict of guilty from November 2006 - and a nearly $100,000 award - against Barnett in another civil case in which a jury concluded he falsely imprisoned members of a Douglas family.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_0f4a5283-74fa-55ee-b1fe-26d60d735c91.html

ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Boss, welcome back.....

And thanks for taking care of that bill, I was thinking about selling a kidney..... not mine, but I'm sure I could find one somewhere.

hawkeye — April 12, 2012 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk- If you ever one have to sell it's good to know up to date market value! ...

http://www.havocscope.com/organ-trafficking/

nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66xJpj...

A secretly secretive video secreting NK Gov high intel...what they don't want you to see.

nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**North Korea satellite launch fails quickly after liftoff**

The failure could be a domestic and international embarrassment and undermine the country's new leader, Kim Jong Un.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/asia/la-fg-north-korea-rocket-20120413,0,4264417.story

nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 10:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2012/03/27/pestalotiopsis-microspora-pet-bottles/

Amazing discovery! Apparently plastic IS biodegradable. Hopefully it actually leads somewhere!

Genevieve — April 12, 2012 at 11:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The failure could be a domestic and international embarrassment and undermine the country's new leader, Kim Jong Un." -- nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.

They'll probably blame it on sabotage - and that might not be too far off the mark. These guys can't even build a decent computer, and have to import the components from China. It's not a stretch to guess that an embedded code or "defective" part could have led to this. Question is - was it us or China?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/north-korea-apparently-pumping-out-state-sponsored-pcs/

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hopefully it actually leads somewhere! -- Genevieve — April 12, 2012 at 11:42 p.m.

Waste Management is probably on the move - This looks to have the potential to be a real money maker.

Meanwhile, Hollywood types are dreaming up movies where the fungus escapes the plastic bottle dump and branches out - we discover that plastics are in everything we use - our ability to work with metals and other substances are long forgotten - back to the Stone Age for the human race.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 12, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.,

RE: The Barnett decision (sort of).

Meanwhile, the little Minutemen type groups continue to "patrol" our borders with Mexico, in hopes of being able to "detain" an illegal and turn him over to the authorities.

http://www.minutemanproject.com/

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice editorial pat on the back to the School for the Blind and School for the Deaf today, Columbian.

As fantastic as these school are, I am surprised that taxpayers and legislators have not taken a hard look at the need for them, as other states are doing.

Maybe a new governor will lead the way.

In any event, educators question the value of separating students from their non-disabled peers and families. Taxpayers foot the bill in flying or bussing each student home every weekend and on holidays.

The programs are stellar, but can these children be served appropriately in their home school districts? I look for this question to be probed as new legislators and a new governor takes office in 2012.

manthou — April 13, 2012 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops: wishful thinking. The election is 2012. The changing of the guard is officially in 2013. D'uh.

manthou — April 13, 2012 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah!!! Nailingit is back. Glad you decided to return my fellow forum follower. (Hope the escape from the rat race was beneficial!)

Now...the balance has returned to the forum!

...

Hey folks!!! How 'bout we strive to keep the *balanced* opinions flowing and remember...we are all entitled to our own opinions as we are also entitled to share a thought in opposition...keeping in perspective to stay on task! And remember, it doesn't matter what political or ethnic affiliation any of us have. We're all the same race! The human race!!!

Sounds like a great weather maker today! I wish all good thoughts and a peaceful day to everyone!!!

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: The editorial Manthou mentions. It is a smart move on the part of the Legislature to allow funds from one year to carry forward to the next if unspent. As anyone who has ever worked the public sector knows, you HAVE to spend your entire budget every year, and then ask for even more the next. If you give anything back, or ask for less, the bean counters figure you don't need it and slash your budget even more.

Is mainstreaming these students really such a good idea? (I honestly don't know.) I see them out on Grand, and they seem to be learning to function well in a mutually supportive environment. Will this be possible in a regular public school?

roger — April 13, 2012 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The schools, and our community, have state Rep. Jim Moeller and state Sen. Craig Pridemore to thank as the two Vancouver Democrats ushered the legislation to unanimous approval this year in both chambers.

It's good to see a party work together and find solutions. :)

manthou @ 6:07 & roger @ 6:37- " ...the value of separating students from their non-disabled peers and families." "Is mainstreaming these students really such a good idea?"

I defer to the experts such as manthou. (who from past posts works and is deeply involved w/spec ed.) I've always have had mixed thoughts when it comes to inclusionary teaching. My wife, (one of those experts) is strong with inclusion and over time has pretty much converted me. I do believe it depends somewhat on the disability, but overall I think inclusion is a good thing, not only for the challenged kids but society as a whole.

btw bless those whose work with our disabled and challenged. A selfless job that rewards educators with much more than a weak paycheck and disappearing benefits.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"A selfless job that rewards educators with much more than a weak paycheck and disappearing benefits." To expound a bit. In part the 'rewards' being the satisfaction one gets in shaping another's life for the better.

---

I'm going to start watching Morning Joe again. If for no other reason than to remind myself there are still some reasonable Republicans that walk the Earth. I've wondered why there hasn't been more attention brought to bear on Allen West's recent comments. The Republican's seem to have a few clear thinkers left. Too bad they aren't in elected office.

X GOP Congressman Joe Scarborough should throw his hat in the ring for political appointment in the Obama 2012-2016 Admin. He'd be a productive asset for someone if he would get back into professional politics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/13/morning-joe-hilary-rosen-allen-west-joe-scarborough_n_1423627.html?ref=media

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Joe Scarborough needs to stay right where he's at!!! His is the only really "well balanced" opinion news program on TV - well worth getting up at 4 a.m. to watch. I just wish he'd made a bigger stink about the NBC execs running Pat Buchanan off - he actually did quite a good job of explaining the mentality of the far right, and was a counterweight to Mika's ultraliberal outlook.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If a bunch of newspaper people -- not just editors -- see Obama and Romney back to back at luncheons over two days.... and on the first day everyone gives Obama a standing ovation, should they also give a standing ovation to Romney as well?

Remember these are newspaper people.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — April 13, 2012 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou Brancaccio

Still ignoring Ron Paul?

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ roger- *...well worth getting up at 4 a.m. to watch.* I prefer the DVR!

@ Lou B- Yes.

@ fro- Who?

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Golly! I see I stepped on a few toes.

> As far as "ultra" anything goes, nailingit is a little to the left of center but has a good knowledge of balance for everything liberal and conservative. -- hawkeye — April 11, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.

Bias taints one’s view. As should be evident to any thinking person, and is evidenced daily in the whine cellar, and just about everyplace else.

One who prolifically lambasts Republicans, Conservatives, Christians and especially Mormons, day in and day out, and who links, also prolifically, to questionable sources such as the Huffpo, as well as other unquestionably leftist rags to support their claims, can hardly be considered balanced or “a little to the left of center”. That is absolutley absurd.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:23 p.m

For those of you that depend on the Columbian, Fox or NBC et al for your "facts" Ron Paul is the only candidate polling ahead of President Obama, in this weeks Rasmussen poll.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 12, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.

Manthou, I believe you once sang the praises of socialism in your native Saskatchewan. I looked that up long ago, but could not find a lot about that period of socialism in Saskatchewan other than an article by some politician who took over after the socialists were booted, who had any number of extremely negative facts he brought to bear, as to what happened to that province during that socialist period. I will not bother to review that myself, but imagine that a google search will turn that article up rather easily.

Of course, you have stated your disdain for Ayn Rand.

I might wonder how one who likes Saskatchewan socialism, and thinks Ayn Rand’s ideas are childish, can claim to be a Libertarian. Reminds me of Noam Chomsky’s Libertarian Socilaism. I am without a clue as to how one can be a Socialist but also be a Libertarian. I’m sure I will forever be indebted, if you can explain this to me.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...you left out Catholics.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 12, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.

Luvithere,

So what is the difference between extremist and “very left leaning” and between extremist and “very liberal” ? You have recently suggested, that you may be to the left of nails. And just what is one to make of that. See following comments.

No insult was intended. Sheesh! See following comments.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 12, 2012 at 7:53 p.m.

Nail, I find your comments of April 12 @ 7:53 p.m. rather strange. I have many times questioned the definitions of Liberal and Conservative which are so frequently used. To wit: In the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, it was those who wanted free enterprise and were against state ownership and control of the economy who were called the liberals, while those who were called Conservatives wished to retain these things. In this country, it is exactly the opposite. Hence, your definitions of Conservative and Liberal do nothing to address the issue of the relationship between citizen and government. You once, as I understood your comment, stated your respect for W.F Buckley. I once saw this same idea in the form of a question, to Mr. Buckley, who answered the questioner with a latin expression which was essentially, a long sigh of agreement.

I will note your cleverly couched suggestions of lack of thinking ability on my part. Your tricky little subterfuge has all of the tact of a… ahem… Yak in a Tibetan buddist monastery.

You are correct, however, in that my reference to some of you as extremist leftists was not intended as an insult. My term was used as descriptive, not as an invective.

And HEY! You called me a conservative! Please stop that name calling.

I see where you have paid a compliment to Joe, a Republican. Aside from WFB, I think that’s a first. I shall conclude that my comments about your extremism, have had a positive effect. Glad I could help! Don’t mention it.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Editor Lou,

Obama is The Pres - this automatically entitles him to a higher level of respect. Even the Congressional Teabaggers recognized that (mostly, anyhow) at the last State of The Union.

Was the standing ovation on Pres Obama's introduction? They better have been standing up to greet him!!!

Was it due to remarks he might have made during a presentation to the reporters? That could be suspect - goes to show they're possibly losing their impartiality (if this is expected of them).

Was the standing O on his departure? Refer back to the intro comment; The Pres deserves no less. I'd have even stood for Pres Ronald Reagan, who I otherwise badmouth every chance I get.

Mitt Romney, at this point, is "just" a successful businessman who WANTS to be Pres. As long as he received a polite, hopefully respectful, greeting - I'd say the obligation was met.

So, are you going to return and elaborate/give the reason for this question?

roger — April 13, 2012 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.

Many people claim to be libertarian, because they agree with one or two issues, without regard for their underlying reasoning. A good example would be Alleycat, he claimed to be a libertarian because he believed that marijuana should be legalized, however he felt that the federal government had unlimited power to outlaw anything else.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sang the praises of socialism...period of socialism...after the socialists...that socialist period...one who likes Saskatchewan socialism... how one can be a Socialist...

All that in two brief paragraphs!

Outside of those who watch Fox, listen to Rush and spend time on hard right websites, your conversation/questioning is quite ridiculous.

As for the Huff Post...many articles are reprints/sourced from publications such as NYT, WSJ, LA Times, etc. Those that aren't should be judged on individual merit, not an overall paranoid interpretation from a few on the right. But that won't appease your conservatively intrinsic need to label.

How about...an unquestionably "prolific" centrist rag that relates to most human beings? :)

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> ...you left out Catholics. -- nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.

No I didn't. Catholics and Protestants are both Christians.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I am without a clue as to how one can be a Socialist but also be a Libertarian. I’m sure I will forever be indebted, if you can explain this to me." -- kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.

Actually, this is a relatively old philosophy that grew out of the French anarchist movement; adherents say it predates capitalism. Around the start of the 20th Century was the last time the movement had any real power. The British Labour Party had it's roots here, and the early development of the Communist movement nearly turned their way, until Marx took control.

In the simplest - they're social anarchists who aren't willing to do away with the State. They tend to want economic power removed from individuals as this leads to an economic slavery. The State must also be very careful in what it controls, and doesn't control, when it comes to society. Herbert Marcuse, who was one of the philosophical forefathers of the 50's/60's anti-authoritarian movements, was considered a socialist libertarian. The Digger movement was founded on these principals. Oscar Wilde considered himself one. This isn't something new that Chomsky dreamed up.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 4:54 p.m.

Your diatribe is nonsense, and has nothing to do with anything.

Among other things, one might note your implicit defense of socialism.

I like Rush, but have not listened to him for years. Also, it could not be more obvious, that it is you, who follows FOX news, as you have made repeated references to the goings on about FOX. I have no problem with FOX, but have no interest in watching.

Hey! If FOX viewers are low IQ, and/or misinformed, and since you obviously watch FOX, just what that that make you?

HMMMMM?

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:06 p.m.

I truly believe modern Libertarianism and modern socialism are mutually exclusive, Libertarians believe that the individual must make their own decisions, Socialist believe that only the State can make our decisions.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


lib·er·tar·i·an noun \ˌli-bər-ˈter-ē-ən, -ˈte-rē-\

Definition of LIBERTARIAN

1
: an advocate of the doctrine of free will
2
a : a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action
b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles
— libertarian adjective
— lib·er·tar·i·an·ism noun
See libertarian defined for English-language learners »
See libertarian defined for kids »
First Known Use of LIBERTARIAN

1789
Rhymes with LIBERTARIAN

antiquarian, centenarian, Indo-Aryan, millenarian, nonsectarian, postlapsarian, prelapsarian, Presbyterian, proletarian, Rastafarian, Sabbatarian, Sagittarian, seminarian, trinitarian, vegetarian
Browse

Next Word in the Dictionary: liberticidal
Previous Word in the Dictionary: libers
All Words Near: libertarian
Seen & Heard

What made you want to look up libertarian? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible). Fro's comment @ 4:41 *Many people claim to be libertarian, because they agree with one or two issues, without regard for their underlying reasoning.*

---

It's amusing that a few who lay claim to the label of "Libertarian" get outraged when someone else suggests they lean in that direction. I have even voted Libertarian in the past.

Kn_d- A Libertarian, (since we are labeling :) isn't necessarily someone who faithfully carries a copy of the constitution in their hip pocket, speaks about Ron Paul as if he is the second coming of Christ, seeks to destroy the Federal Government and believes Obama is a Muslim.

Fox News Libertarians...AHHH! Although fro's comments, unlike others seem to be consistent with traditionalist party platform.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Got a nice little package in the mail from Robert Redford - Cool, let's see what he wants before I toss into the recycle bin.

He was representing the Natural Resources Defense Council - they want my money so they can fight environmental issues. I googled them, and they're considered a highly respectable charity - one of the best. So, I went and read the literature in the package.

Seems they're protesting, and trying to stop, the Pebble mine in southwest Alaska, in the Bristol Bay area. It seems a conglomeration of US, Canadian, Australian and Japanese companies have acquired mineral rights from the state; estimated value in the range of $300 billion. Because this is low grade ore, they'll be doing open pit mining. Waste water/chemicals used in the project will be stored in two large man-made lakes behind several barriers. This is a salmon spawning ground (or something like that), so the possibility that this will leach to the water and contaminate everything has a whole slew of people up in arms. Even Sen Ted Stevens (Bridge to Nowhere and open up ANWAR fame) was opposed to this.

Due to the corporate setup, very little of the profit will go to US companies. The State will gain little in taxes. There will be jobs - for 30-40 years, until the area is mined out - in a very economically depressed area. And supposedly the ore will be sold to the US, reducing our dependence on foreign sources.

Sounds like the next Keystone XL. If you follow this kind of thing, Wiki has a good starter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_Mine

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:24 p.m

Why would a Libertarian even care if Obama was or wasn't a Muslim?

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Hey! If FOX viewers are low IQ, and/or misinformed, and since you obviously watch FOX, just what that that make you?
HMMMMM?*

I do watch some Fox, mostly on the weekends. It helps me to understand the current state of the Republican party, and the messaging that blurs the line with so many that post here.

Kn_d you are starting to sound like Bobbo the clown...you okay?

Fox will turn up the heat the closer we get to Obama's second term. Anyone check out Roger Ailes comments lately? Again...from the Huff Post. (you know in the past less than half my sources were derived from this "leftist rag". I think I will use the Huff much more often as it's news reporting seems to be to right wing extremists, what sunlight is to Vampires!)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/13/roger-ailes-soledad-obrien-prison_n_1423092.html

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Roger, thanks for bringing the Pebble Mine project to the attention of us fellow forum dwellers. Guess I've got some extra reading to do tonight before making my Easter bread for Sunday (yes, Greek Orthodox Easter...aka Paskha to our fine Hellenics in Clark County as well as Eastern Orthodox Easter for those who celebrate also!!!)

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:06 p.m.

Roger, this is all very interesting.

You may well recall, that I, unfortunately, became insulting to you sometime last year. It was over this very idea of Libertarian Socialist. A political philosphy which had been previously raised by another, who seemed to think of himself as moderate, who could not have been more Leftist, other than the Red Brigade. Or something. Then there is “participatory economics”, and a host of other ideas, which are espoused by any number of economics and social scientist professors. All euphemisms, kind of like calling abortion “health care”.

I don’t remember which one this one is, but it was a couple of college professors, who had an idea about how everyone in a business, should switch jobs on a regular basis. So the manager is a manager one day, and the next day he’s a laborer of some sort, and then he’s the janitor cleaning the bathroom after that, and then back to being the manager again. If this is a private enterprise, like a co-op…fine. It’s up to them. Nope I don’t think so. Maybe their idea is government control. Yep. I think so.

Makes me sick. It’s what I call paper and pencil thinking.

One might wonder if those two paper and pencil thinking college professors think they should teach the classrooms and write the journal papers one day, and then clean out the toilets the next day. Nah, something tells me that’s not what they where thinking.

While I appreciate your comments, I would even more appreciate understanding how one can advocate Libertarian for everyone, but only after Socialism through government.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 5:30-That has me baffled also fro. I don't know other than many self professed "Libertarians" are just that, self professed and nothing more. I believe many in the bagger movement consider themselves as such. Better to question some of them.

What do you think about severely fining & jailing a woman and a woman's friend up to 1 year, if that friend provided a morning after pill to prevent pregnancy? A pharmacist? Jailing a doctor for not ensuring proper viewing of an ultra-sound for up to ten years as was proposed by Alabama right wing legislators? It's troubling that true Libertarian voices aren't making themselves heard today, not only on women's issues, but on the misuse and abuse of legislative power that fly's in the face of the constituent majority. With certain mindsets abuse of power becomes ethical as long as it's at the state level.

btw I felt the biased reporting from Fox news against Ron Paul was unconscionable but not surprising.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert,

But what about when another person wants to make decisions that affect me?

Libertarianism, as defined by David Boaz and the Cato Institute, is what most people in this country follow - PJ O'Rourke and Dinesh D'Souza, for example. A core belief is that some will move to the forefront, and will develop economies that will benefit all. That it is their right to pursue this, and they should benefit from the fruits of their labor.

The Socialist variation, which still has a fair number of adherents in Europe, brings human nature into the equation. The human animal is greedy, and will exercise any control necessary over others to satisfy that greed. Because of this, the State must control them.

In a way, this is the same arguments we went through with deregulation and trickle down economics.

In my personal world, I'm not likely to come up with something that will allow me to be self-sufficient (which, by the way, is what I think Alleycat considered being a Libertarian). I have to depend on someone else's vision and work for them, if my talents make this a desirable business relationship to that person. Under the Libertarianism you follow, that person can treat me how they choose, and I either take it or leave. Under the Libertarian Socialist, the State will check that power so the relationship can be more of a mutually beneficial one.

At least, that's my understanding. And once people start getting involved and interjecting their personal desires/beliefs/etc, all political philosophies tend to morph to something else. For example - what's this current conservative movement got to do with what WFB Jr. wrote about?

roger — April 13, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Kn_d you are starting to sound like Bobbo the clown...you okay? -- nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:37 p.m.

And you don't realize, how obvious it is, that your comments are intended to be insulting? The clown?

> Bias taints one’s view. As should be evident to any thinking person, and is evidenced daily in the whine cellar, and just about everyplace else. -- kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

I was a production chef in a past, pre-military days, life. One of the things we served up was Cornell bread; one of those concoctions they came up with in the WW2 era to provide max nutrition with what was on hand. And it was actually quite tasty, too. Anyhow, I had this wild urge to make it again. So I'll also be baking this weekend.

If I can find some fresh soy flour, that is. Hopefully Trader Joes or one of the other whole foods type stores. Nothing is nastier than soy flour that's gone rancid.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 5:54 p.m.

People, both male and female should be allowed to make their own medical decisions. I personally feel that making one's own medical decisions falls under "rights retained by the people" and all levels of Government should stay out of those decisions. Think of the strain that would be eliminated from our medical system if people were not required by law to see a licensed physician for such routine items as asthma inhalers, or bee sting kits.

The tea party is an enigma, founded on libertarian principles and quickly devolved into another neocon hate group more like the democrats of the 60's. I still however still have a hard time condemning the tea party in general because some of these independent groups are still true to their roots.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know, I truly respect just about everyone who posts here; there's usually a lot of good information being shared in an intelligent manner - from different perspectives on many different topics.

But I really get put off by the name calling and insulting comments. We can disagree and challenge each other without this. If we're going to get to that level, then we might as well all move to the facebook page and argue with the crowd over there. I go there because people here aren't interested in the CRC and light rail, and because I think there's a better opportunity to influence what others think on these topics. But I come here to work my brain.

For whatever that rant was worth.

And no - kn_dalai - this wasn't because of our previous confrontation; we settled that long ago!

roger — April 13, 2012 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I still however still have a hard time condemning the tea party in general because some of these independent groups are still true to their roots. -- frobert — April 13, 2012 at 6:07 p.m.

Agreed. Once people start interjecting their own personal motivations, a lot of good movements become something else.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And you don't realize, how obvious it is, that your comments are intended to be insulting? The clown?*

Kn_d- Bobbo used to always print HMMMMMM??? when in his mind he made a point that he considered cute or obvious. Like you just did. Also your labeling of people and disdain for those who don't share your views rivals bobbo L. Two Republicans that are grounded in the conservative movement who refuse to think outside the box.

No insult, just observation.

There is a saying about those who sport a glass jaw...

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Then Roger, you will agree with me that a certain poster, calling another a "clown", constitutes an insult.

And certainly, you will agree, that our own bias, results in how hard we take things. (Or vice versa).

While all of this may seem trivial, actually, I think it says alot about politics.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_d-Why seek confirmation unless you understand what was meant? :)

Really......

Forgive me Kn_d and to all the PC world that exists (in part due to lack of debating skills) that I compared K_nd's comment to that of Bobbo the Clown's...a C poster that has received the boot from this forum many times.

My god Kn_d...substance man......substance!?!

Now go tell Matt............

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 6:37 p.m

What?

Substance? Go tell Matt? Just what are you even talking about?

Incredible.

The only thing worse than this, is that some of you actually think nail states anything at all of relevance.

ARGHHH!

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 4:26 p.m

You know, you're kind of a...... never mind. Just add "ultra" to it.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I know Kn_d. It's frustrating when other's opinions don't match yours. But it's opinion Kn_d and it involves free choice. A Libertarian concept I might add. Breathe deep, inhale, have a drink, or go for a drive. Whatever works for you bro.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 7:06 p.m.

Explain yourself.

I am more than willing to support myself.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.

My belief is in limited government.

Your statement suggests otherwise.

Explain yourself.

kn_dalai — April 13, 2012 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_d- @ 7:15 & 7:18 .. Kind of controlling/demanding...don'tcha think?

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou B at 3:18 PM: I followed your tweets from ASNE 12. Also David Boardman's. You both agreed that President Obama got a much warmer reception from the audience.

I remarked a few days ago that I was impressed that you gave both men a standing ovation and was one of two standing for Mr. Romney.

A room full of newspaper editors and journalists and publishers and their preference for the president was not well hidden.

I saw an interview with David Boardman online (Seattle Times Exec Editor, for those who do not know) and he was talking about the days when journalists were not supposed to put up a lawn sign for a candidate. Tim Russert allegedly hid a Bush/Cheney button under his lapel and flashed it to those he trusted.

So, if newspaper folk are flying their colors so boldly these days, does that mean they are forgetting this long-respected tradition of keeping their political leanings under wraps?

I have a feeling Press Talk will introduce this topic.

By the way, good for you for giving both candidates equal respect.

manthou — April 13, 2012 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Come on people kn_dalai meant no disrespect, we have only two types of people on this forum, the extremest and the boring.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is the boomer's obsession with "prober labels"? Seems to me nailingit here can identify as whatever pleases him, although I don't know why he would want to lump himself in with a bunch of gun toting, tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy theorists like the Libertarian Party. Why do people have to get angry and tell him who he is???? Whats next are you going to tell Fro that he's not really crazy, or Hawkeye that he isn't a communist infiltrator, or tell me that like Barack Obama I'm not black enough?

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.

Tin foil hats are really quite comfortable and I am sure everybody will be wearing them soon.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert: Thanks for the laugh!

kn_dalai: Saskatchewan is not my native home. Chicago is. But Saskatchewan was a fully socialized government from 1944-1964 and the roots of this run deep and are still evident today. I liked the health care. The government owns utilities and communication corporations (SaskTel; SaskOil) My Canadian-born baby was offered a free college education from his home country simply because he was a citizen, even though he moved back with us to the US and grew up in Oregon. You could choose which school you wanted your taxes to support: parochial or public. Kids had free dental clinics in the schools. I liked having first hand exposure to such a different system because I found out that nothing evil happened to us, in spite of it. Taxes were high. We all paid them and still kept our homes and fed our families. That may be because our incomes were generous.

I really defy labels, but you can call me what you wish. I have voted for Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and Green Party candidates, depending on the issues supported. I am open minded and enjoy a diverse group of friends who don't always share my political views. But we like each other and have a hell of a lot of fun in each other's company anyway.

manthou — April 13, 2012 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They will be where I'm sending you....

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There's an LTE from someone in Washougal, who's commenting on a plan to run 20 trains per day, over a mile long each and all loaded with coal destined for a port - probably in Longview.

This is real stuff - not labels.

Twenty trains daily? Access to the river will be cut off every so often. Getting a good night's sleep will be difficult. And yes - your quality of life will suffer - there's no such thing as nice neighborhoods by heavily traveled rail lines.

Somehow, I suspect Vancouver City Council is already spinning their wheels trying to decide what to do. They're heavily invested in their Waterfront Development project - this rail line runs right through that area.

The problem I'm having, though, is that we're all concerned about our own problems. The only people who care about this are in your towns and the few areas of Vancouver along the river. The only people who care about BPA's mega-tower project running through some part of Clark County are the one's who will have to live with those things nearby. People living along the light rail and BRT lines will see their neighborhoods deteriorate. And I'm sure I'm forgetting other little projects that are somewhat under the radar.

This area is a nice place to live. It's being transformed into something else - something that isn't very pretty. All in the name of progress for the greater good.

roger — April 13, 2012 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Limited government has as much meaning as the next new flavor of Kool-aid for many.

Some who espouse "limited government" would prosecute/imprison doctors for performing a legal medical procedure and prosecute/imprison women for having it.

Some who believe in "limited government" believe that individual States/politicians have the right to decide what's best for women's health care.

Some who espouse "limited government" believe the majority should suffer losses in education, medical and first responder services, while lobbying for tax dollar breaks and loopholes for the rich and powerful who get them elected.

Some who espouse "limited government" believe in restricting voter rights for American citizens to include enacting legislation causing severe hardship for voters in outlying poor communities, the elderly and members of our armed forces.

Some who espouse "limited government" believe that American citizens who engage in sexual activity that disagrees with their personal sexual view should be discriminated against.

Some who espouse "limited govern......................

There's all kinds of "limited government" floating around nowadays. The most troubling are those who credit the Constitution for their understanding of..."limited government".

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gen,

Why is the younger generation always talking about sending their parents off to old folks homes (or worse)? Don't you guys know you can't survive without our wisdom, firm guidance, and our bank accounts?

roger — April 13, 2012 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh Gen, you caught me!!! Are you married? Cause if Romney gets in maybe I can enjoy another wife.

I really love your mind!

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: coal trains are a sore subject in the Pacific NW. Google "coal trains Washiington state" when you get the chance.

Glad you noticed the letter. We all should be worried about it.

manthou — April 13, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger- I wasn't talking about an old folks home! I would **NEVER, EVER** put my dear old Dad in one of those horrible, horrible places.... I was simply talking about a home for the criminally insane.

And on the train issue, I think that the irreversible damage that will be done to the atmosphere by that amount of coal being burned is a little more of a pressing issue then the slight annoyance it will pose to the people of Washougal.

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In other news, apparently hawkeye's hero George Zimmerman, when bereft of his Kel Tek 9mm and spending the night in a 67 square foot cell, cried himself to sleep like a baby, like a hungry angry baby.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye- You flatter me but come on, we all know Romney doesn't stand a chance against the Obaminator!;)

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.

If you put me in an institution, you know they won't let you bring in your computer for me to fix.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobo, and just how is he my "hero"?

I'd lay you odds, that you'd curl up in the fetal position, cry until your body was dry and beg for water so you could continue.

If you were in his position.

Gen, right you are.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert @8:21 pm...

No offense, frobert...but I think hawkeye, like the rest of us...have a lot of questions about the entire situation surrounding Martin and Zimmerman. Just because we voice our opinions and they may be different from yours, it certainly doesn't lead us to consider Zimmerman as some kind of hero. Not cool, fro. Till the questions are answered (hopefully with evidence and testimony), we will continue to ask. We will not jump to the conclusion that Martin attacked Zimmerman and we will not jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman was stalking Martin. Maybe the guy cried himself to sleep because he was overwhelmed and he'd finally come to the realization that he'd taken the life of a 17 year old, even if he swears by his self defense statement. I know I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 8:32 p.m.

I have been a gun toting redneck all my life and I have never seen the need to gun down unarmed children, so I guess I will never be in his position.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, maybe you could let me know how your Cornell bread turned out. In the recipe I found, I'd probably switch the wheat germ with flax seed. Also...there's actually a baker's nonfat dry milk which is better for cooking and I think Whole Foods carries it too. That is...if your recipe calls for those two items.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 13, 2012 at 8:37 p.m.

Even you should know this.

***NEVER SAY NEVER***

And I don't think that a 17 year old (these days) is a "child". Had he done the shooting, he'd be charged as an adult.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A gun-toting redneck????

Oh now *THAT* paints an interesting picture in my mind right now!!!

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 8:34 p.m.

Hawkeye was the one posting links to anti Trayvon propaganda sites last night.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, I can't seem to locate the links you speak. Could you please point them out? The only one I found was from yesterday morning and all it was doing was pointing out the battles the prosecuting attorney's office will be enduring.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro @ 8:37...LOL! Great point fro. I'm catching myself agreeing with you more than I usually allow myself to do so with a Ron Paul supporter!

Genevieve @ 7:51 {may I call you Gen? :)} *I don't know why he would want to lump himself in with a bunch of gun toting, tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy theorists like the Libertarian Party.*

Sounds pretty inclusive to me!......BYOB??

Oh JesusHYoungChristPope! I've communicated with 2 RP supporters in one day. And I'm still standing!

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...on the local front. Ichiro just made a great grab down the right field line. Mariners down to the A's 2 zip. Bottom of the seventh.

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobo, you mean this link?

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120412/D9U3GG480.html

And you think this is an "anti-Trayvon" article? I see it as an article about the facts.

Gen is right, you are crazy.

***PLEASE EVERYBODY, READ THIS ARTICLE AND VOTE, ME OR FROBO***

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i'm a new adoption mommie.

today i picked up a 3 y/o little fuzz ball to make safe and happy.

today's a good day.

DeeLittle — April 13, 2012 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk- I did read the linked article @ 9:20 and found it to be without opinion. Just a wrap up of what's happened. Perhaps fro was referencing opinion rather than link. I didn't know the locals shot up an unmanned po po car. I'll leave it at that. :)

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit AND frobert...

I think I can safely say we ALL agree that nobody in this world should have the need to gun down a "child." Part of the disagreement the past few days is the age Trayvon was when he was shot and whether or not he should have been labeled as a child or a minor. Obviously, he was a teenager...a minor who was less than a year away from legal voting age and less than a year away from legally joining the military. And as hawkeye pointed out...what if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Martin who shot Zimmerman? Would he still be tried as a child??? (good point, hawk)

Either way...I believe we can also agree that there's been quite a media frenzy over this incident.

I have a feeling it'll be difficult to find any witnesses. They're probably refusing to take the initiative to do what's right and stand up in court...that is, if there are any.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit- Gen is just fine, and I hope you are not counting me as one of those 2 Ron Paul supporters. As a die hard Obama supporter and a socially conscious environmentalist, commie I resent that.

DeeLittle- Congrats! Glad to hear you are having a good day.

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Pat Shearer, Police Sergeant Who Posted Bullet-Riddled Image Of Obama, Suspended And Demoted**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/pat-shearer-demoted-obama_n_1311461.html

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh good grief! This Captcha thing is so ridiculous. I totally screwed up the letters...not in the same order as what was displayed and it accepted my combination! Had some foreign lettering again, too...and I ignored it. It still posted!!!

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 9:20 p.m.

Before you people vote look at hawkeye's 9:13 post last night.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is a very delegate condition Gen. One that should be approached with compassion and understanding. :)

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.

That was **before** Gen took over your position as extremist liberal on the forum...it was by unanimous vote.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert...last night??? The 12th??? I only see a post at 9:04 pm. Maybe you're speaking of the one on the 11th. You know...the one with the picture of an angry teen flipping the bird.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


... I see what you did there Nailingit. Very punny of you. Fro is correct though, I got 2,004 votes and unlike republican politicians I make an effort to stand by my campaign promises.

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh frobo, that was two days ago AND, I just passed it on, I DIDN'T WRITE IT. Give me a friggin' break.

Also, Goldie, remember what I said about that flash mob robbery? Well, look out cause it's going to get busy round here.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/04/group_of_teens_hits_lloyd_cent.html

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess a Denver artist has made a portrait of Zimmerman, using skittles glued to a wooden board. A pie in the face sort of tribute, I'd say.

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- *it was by unanimous vote.*

Must be those new Bagger voting restrictions in play. I'm calling for a re-count! But am more than willing to share in the leftist, liberal commie pinko mindsets that us ultra liberal commies can agree on and continue to promote the destruction of this country brought on by us here lefties. :)

You betcha!

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now remember Hawkeye...these teens in the flash mobs who are doing their part to destroy local businesses and increase an unsafe environment for shoppers are *children,* right??? I wonder if they took the MAX???

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 10:02 p.m

No, not bagger, it was the 2000 democrat only votes found in a voting machine on the third recount.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I should expect one wannabe mallcop to wholeheartedly to support another.

frobert — April 13, 2012 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey GO, I'm thinking that if they are old enough to plan and execute these hit and run jobs, they AIN'T CHILDREN! BUST them as adults.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gen- 2004? Are you sure? That number sticks in my head and hurts, deeper and deeper and causes so much...pain and..suffering when I think of this numb............

My holy socks! The year Dubya was voted in the second time!!! It's been only the last two months I've been able to stave off enough thoughts about it to get a couple hours of sleep...now it's resurfaced!!

Repressed, depressed and suppressed. A liberals nightmare!

Anyone spare a lude? Do they still manufacture Quaaludes? I have so many questions and no one to answer them.....

OOooohhhhhh........

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


EXACTLY, Hawkeye!!! I'm also thinking it's the same brats that hit the convenience store as well. Just where in the heck are their parents anyhow??? If there are indeed 13 year olds, their parents should be charged as well!

Well...I'm outta here for the night. A busy day awaits me tomorrow!

goldenoldie — April 13, 2012 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye on this I am going to have to disagree with you. The kids are believed to be between 13 and 19... No way in hell should any 13,14,15 year old be charged as an adult. The penalties for these kids if they are caught would be strict enough, why would you want to strip them of their right to vote and make it nearly impossible for them to get a decent job and contribute to society because of a silly mistake they made as a teenager when basically all they did was coordinated shoplifting.

Genevieve — April 13, 2012 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I hear you Gen, but you CAN'T just slap their hands and turn them over to their parents. Apparently, that isn't working. They need to know they are going to have to pay for their crimes, this ain't just fun and games.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's a thought, maybe Mr. Mayor can go on the TV and explain things to these kids before it gets out of hand. He IS the Police Commissioner, you know.

hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 10:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


AHHHH!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgrSCV...

nailingit — April 13, 2012 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I believe one dates oneself when one refers to ludes. LOL

That was funny though!!

My spell check could not just accept that word though. It gave me 5 different examples. None of which alluded to ludes.!!

Hey Good Morning everybody.

Check out the rift that Romney wants to re-visit with Obama about guns and gun rights.

My CAPTCHA for the morning is 'yearngfusc'. Didn't work though.

JohnCasey — April 14, 2012 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — April 13, 2012 at 9:30 p.m.

Hey Dee, can you elaborate? "Fuzzball" is kind of vague.

hawkeye — April 14, 2012 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


From Obama in Columbia-

"We don't think that the Venezuelan people have been served by rhetoric and, you know, the undermining of democratic institutions. We want the people of Latin America and the Caribbean to determine their own destiny."

We apparently have much in common with our neighbors to the south, we're both ruled by do-nothing windbag politicians that cater to the money, not the people.

Also, 12 secret service agents were relieved and sent back to the US. It seems one of them refused to pay a prostitute and she called the police. Nothing like leaving a good impression.....

mrd — April 14, 2012 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

I hate it when that happens. YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR HOOKERS! No matter where you are. It's just not right to "stiff" them. X2

hawkeye — April 14, 2012 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wish there were sub-titles. I've probably forgotten more Mexican than I ever knew ;^)

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/13/11177072-money-drugs-guns-and-gangs-child-actors-shame-mexicos-politicians-with-mockumentary?lite

Drift — April 14, 2012 at 7:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In the book "Carrier" I write of hookers. I mention that I always took an extra pack of cigarettes when I left the ship. You know, for a tip? - 'cuz I've always been a classy son of a gun.

Drift — April 14, 2012 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Press Talk today: Some of us in the Basement are loooong time print subscribers who support the businesses (maybe even own one) that support the C.

So Lou: Please consider visiting here for conversation more often. I promise I will behave. :)

manthou — April 14, 2012 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More about Press Talk:

I have traditionally revered journalists throughout my life because I am evangelical about their role in preserving free speech in a democracy. I always thought they deserved better pay for their troubles. We need watchdogs. I'd prefer them to have nasty teeth and a strong, tenacious bite. They should be able to feed, clothe and shelter themselves and their families for their troubles.

The Seattle Times is selling property, cutting back on pension funding, and laid off more employees in Jan and Feb of this year, for instance.

Lives are damaged and fortunes lost over reckless, unethical reporting, however, and I truly fear that social media is eroding the strong ethical base upon which journalism was built.

I love these videos of David Boardman, Seattle Times Executive Editor because he addresses so many of my concerns in Part 2, Ethics and Digital Content:

http://www.whoneedsnewspapers.org/np_interviews.php?npId=wast&ivId;=wast02

manthou — April 14, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BREAKING INTERNATIONAL NEWS--BREAKING INTERNATIONAL NEWS--BREAKING INTERNAT

**The Three Stooges Condemned By Catholic League President Bill Donohue**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/13/catholic-league-three-stooges_n_1423500.html

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


PLEASE EVERYBODY, READ THIS ARTICLE AND VOTE, ME OR FROBO --
hawkeye — April 13, 2012 at 9:20 p.m.

Actually, I think the article most supports what I've been saying - that Stand Your Ground is what's truly on trial here, that this will need to be resolved first, and that if Zimmerman is found to have acted within the intent of that law, then the murder charge will have to be tossed. And given the evidentiary requirements for each side, the article notes that this is a very real possibility. Which probably shows why Eric Holder (speaking for self or the Pres??) seems so eager to get involved, have it declared a hate crime, and bring the trial under federal jurisdiction before the State of Florida can make their ruling.

But I can understand Fro's anger toward Zimmerman. I too believe that if he hadn't been out there playing neighborhood vigilante, then this wouldn't have happened.

And I also see that, whether Zimmerman is convicted or not, the anti-gun lobby will do everything possible to make this incident their cause celebre and redouble their effort to have our Second Amendment right to bear arms taken away.

So, hopefully the State of Florida decides this human piece of scum acted outside the bounds of Stand Your Ground - as Fro has been claiming from the start. We gun-toting rednecks have to keep our eye on the big picture.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


John & Drift- Those were the days! First came the 300's, then the 500's. When we thought God had done his best out rolled the King...the almighty RORER 714! I believe the house I grew up in still has levi marks on the hallway walls from improper navigation! In Vegas bootleg versions with LEMON instead of RORER stamped on them showed up after Big Brother crackdown in the 70's. Could this have been the virgin ride for generic pharmaceuticals? :))

Drift- Great read on your book! Much respect for you my friend. Kudos & best wishes with future success.

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk @ 7:03- Never truer words put to print!

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Quaaludes and Joe Friday's badge number 714 - fond memory from the 60's/70's counterculture. Back East, when the police starting focusing on this, the Parest version became popular for a while. And it's probably best that this drug went away. ertsato inoa.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not much into hating, but I'll make an exception for CAPTCHA.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Congrats, Dee - Hopefully your newest family member brings joy to your life. And a special thanks for adopting a grown fuzzball - too many get ignored in favor of the cute little babies.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank's, Nail!
It's good to see you're hanging out again.

Drift — April 14, 2012 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**HAWK**

he's a mini pom. 40% fur and 59.99999% kinetic energy

last night fuzzy spent the evening trying to press himself against his carrier, in the bathroom.

this morning, he felt safer, and went outside on a short leash for 'morning duties'. after that, i coaxed him out of his safe place with his breakfast.

immediately after that, he jumped up on my bed and decided he'd like to play. 'play' means attacking my hand while faux growling.

i have two cats, one 16 years old that loves nothing more than sitting on my while i'm watching tv.

the other one (karma here) is a long-haired, green-eyed ultra-alpha female. she's highly intelligent, which means she gets bored really fast. only toy she likes is the metal scrunchy balls; she tears them to multi-colored tatters.

these two needed to meet.

now the stalker of my toes, the ripper of my cuffs, is at the glass patio door glancing furtively behind her, and looking longingly at the ducks.

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**AHH....TYRANTS.**

the DOL...that department where journalists (around, lou..?) get the latest unemployment figures, is undergoing a 'change'.

usta be, the journalists would wait to be let into a secured area and given the data early. this way, they could analyze it to create their stories.

not anymore.

now, "Carl Fillichio, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis’ top communications advisor" has issued NEW decrees.

first one is that all reporters have to re-submit their credentials, and the DOL will decide who does and does not get access to the data.

and in addition....

> Second, as a measure toward enhancing
> security in its main lockup facility
> (the DOL news room), the department
> will supply and maintain standardized
> equipment with a standard
> configuration for all participants.
> This change means that privately owned
> computer and telephone equipment,
> including hardware, software, cabling,
> wiring and Internet and telephone
> lines will be replaced with equipment
> owned by the department

nawww. obama said, "every agency and department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information, but those who seek to make it known."

the administration's not ignoring another constitutional guarantee by 'legislation via administration' in an election year...they're just...just...

just what ARE they doing?

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


regarding...ahh.... tyrants. Please feel free to source your info. ;)

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*In his 2012 State of the Union Address, President Obama suggested tax reform should follow the Buffett rule where Americans who make more than $1 million a year should not pay less than 30 percent in taxes.*

Why would the American public support the Buffet rule when our elected officials can't even balance the budget they have? It would be like giving a crack addict a sack full of 100 dollar bills with no conditions attached.

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Washington Examiner appears to have carried the DOL lockdown story first.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/dol-forcing-media-use-government-computers/479421

But there was something out in the beginning of March that explains why they want to take these steps.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57393599/labor-dept-studying-preventing-leaks-of-jobs-data/

roger — April 14, 2012 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


President Obama urges Mitt Romney to release past tax returns

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/20120414president_obama_urges_mitt_romney_to_release_past_tax_returns/

What a hypocrite. This coming from the man who refused to release proof of his citizenship until long after the election.
Plus as far as I know still refuses to release his college trandscripts. Personally, I'm not voting for either moron; Obama or Romney.

Transparency--the new "hip" word for politicians. What a ruse!

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


not only that, they are demanding 30 years' worth. back to the '70s.

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*This coming from the man who refused to release proof of his citizenship until long after the election.*

Now that's funny elisi. My God it amazes how some think this way!

dee- Please source.

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.

I think this is what Dee is referencing.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304177104577312180694480146.html?mod=WSJ_elections_article_liveupdate

frobert — April 14, 2012 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


April 2011 was the release date of a certified copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,
Come on MAN:) Fair is as fair is....Kinda like potatoe or Potatoe.....

vanwadreamer — April 14, 2012 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For the most part I understand why you birthers demand proof of our first black President of the United States birthplace.

And it's pitiful. Just plain backwards hillbilly pitiful.

It's one of the many reasons the rest of the world looks at America and just shakes it's head.

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.

I have bad news for you, the United States is much less likely to take into account race or religion when electing leaders. Rendering your statement pitiful.

frobert — April 14, 2012 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


First off nailingit, you are walking a very thin line with the insults.

Second **I AM NOT A BIRTHER**, I repeat **I AM NOT A BIRTHER**

Third Never have I said I ever demanded proof of Obama's birth.
and...for your information I don't give a rat's patooty if he's black, red, green, or purple. Stop playing the victim and screaming race card when ever anyone speaks their mind, that doesn't follow lock step with your view of the man.
You see nailingit, Obama is just a man like you, he stands to go.. he puts his pants on just like you and millions of other men. He isn't a god, just a man, with red blood in his veins just like you or I.

Fourth I was making a point if Obama wants Romney to show his taxes for the last 20+ years, and he, himself chose to delay his release of live birth certificate until after elected, yes he is indeed a hypocrite.

I find you calling me or anyone backwards hillbilly pitiful is just plan slander since you have no idea who I am, what I believe, how I live my life, or what I do or do not support.

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What do you think a birther is??? You gripe because his BIRTH certificate wasn't released in a timely manner? WOW! :())

And quit playing the faux victim card. It's old by now. My comment was directed to birthers. You seem to have taken it quite personal!

But maybe Matt will buy into it again....

My God...................................................no wonder Jesus wept.

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, you are a very sour person. I feel sorry for you..

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- Had your eyes/ears closed for the last four years?

*United States is much less likely to take into account race or religion when electing leaders.*

It's because we haven't done it before now! WOW!

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ELISI**

McCain was also asked for proof he was a natural-born citizen of the US. he provided it without immediately.

as for withholding information...the great o hasn't provided requested school transcripts or military record.

'transparant': adj. see george orwell for definition of doublespeak.

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


First off elisi, you are walking a fine line with your insults!!! Stop with your personal insults!!!! Quit attacking me!!!

and...for your information stop playing the victim and screaming race card when ever anyone speaks their mind, that doesn't follow lock step with your view...!!! I'll tell Matt!

sigh..................

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"...without trouble, immediately"

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Obama's birth certificate is a stupid argument. Romney's tax returns is a stupid argument. The War On Women is a smokescreen.

These kinds of topics are on the table because both sides don't want to admit that they can't fix our problems without admitting that their ideologies are flawed. Government and the services provided are all too costly to sustain. Nothing is going to even start to get done without massive tax increases. And they have to figure out how to get blue collar jobs back into this country - some combination of strict regulation of business and wages is going to have to happen.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hot off the presses from JHB!!!!

More than two-thirds (68%) of Clark County residents who have responded to my mail survey would like the opportunity to vote on light rail in the I-5 bridge replacement process. We’ve counted more than 1,800 responses so far, and more are coming in.

***Well, DUH!!!***

hawkeye — April 14, 2012 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I think Mike Briggs got bounced by Matt. He's been on a rant the past couple of days accusing David Madore of buying politicians and a few other things. He got pretty nasty with a couple of ladies, one who turned out to be Madore's sister in law or something. Anyhow, all his posts have disappeared.

roger — April 14, 2012 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 8:10 p.m

So, why don't you tell us about all the European leaders of African decent?

frobert — April 14, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Context fro....context. The subject was Obama.....

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ROGER**

briggs won't be missed. if i want to read a post from him, i'll just punch up huffpo.

(think i need another cap....hadda start slow cuz of the time i was w/o)

*singing* "oh thank heaven for ..... cymbalta"

DeeLittle — April 14, 2012 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *The War On Women is a smokescreen*.Please explain. I thought many republican controlled states have enacted burdensome regulation/laws dictating guidelines and restrictions to many women's health issues. To include contraception.

*Romney's tax returns is a stupid argument.* Please explain your reasoning. This guy wants to be our President. Why is financial disclosure all of a sudden.."stupid"?

"dee"- Mike will be missed by some I'm sure. I hope he starts posting here. If for anything else to keep the Madore no tolls crowd in line. God knows they need it!!!

nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nothing is going to even start to get done without massive tax increases. And they have to figure out how to get blue collar jobs back into this country - some combination of strict regulation of business and wages is going to have to happen.*

roger — April 14, 2012 at 8:44 p.m

They can't do massive tax increases until jobs are returned to this country.
By regulating business and wages, do you mean to set minimum and maximum earnings per year? Like everyone make say $30.00 an hr min or a $100,000 max?

ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Mike will be missed by some I'm sure. I hope he starts posting here. If for anything else to keep the Madore no tolls crowd in line. God knows they need it!!!* nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:11 p.m.

As with any person commenting on the Columbian Forum or FB comments, some have a following...that's true, but when it turns to controversial attacks or insults upon another person rather than focusing on the actual context of the discussion...they are easily forgotten.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Χριστός Ανέστη***

(Christ is Risen!)

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as those "NO TOLLS" crowd you speak of, nailingit...

They've been around a lot longer than David Madore. He just had the ability to utilize his financial gains to show a public display. As far as I'm concerned...the tolls should never have stopped on the I-5 Bridge. Instead, they should have been raised to $1 each direction. That way, funding to maintain and operate or even replace the twin dinosaurs would never have been an option. Just a wonderful reminder of the lack of vision by the powers that be.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- Perspective. "Controversial attacks", many many of which you have had more than your share of instigating, usually occurs when someone continually fails to make a solid point and resorts to crying out for censorship. It's the grade school behavior by a few that disrupt so much when they can't get their way. Like spoiled children.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A friendly reminder to all, Courtesy of Columbian's Community Discussion Guidelines:

**Keep it clean.** Controversial topics occasionally prompt emotional responses, and we love to see energetic debate and vigorous discussion. But before you wade into those conversations, keep a few things in mind. Don’t use profanity (including alternate characters to mask swear words), obscenities, personal attacks, libel, defamation or hate speech. Steer clear of name calling and posting anything that can be interpreted as threatening, harassing, obscene, pornographic, sexist or racist. Derogatory use of sexual orientation, race, age, gender, religion, nationality, disability and so on is not allowed.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, nailingit.

There's an old saying...a biblical saying in fact which states "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I admit my faults. Do you admit to any faults you possess??? So why are you in attack mode this morning? I wasn't meaning anything personal and definitely wasn't trying to instigate. I'm merely making my own public statement that I would like to see everyone remain on task. Does that statement create an issue with you today, my fellow forum follower?

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*So why are you in attack mode this morning?*

Quit with your "attack mode" crap. It ain't workin'.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


bwahahahahahahahahaaaa!!! Nellie Oleson from Little House on the Prairie??? Oh how befitting with the discussion this fine morning, nailingit!!! Thanks for the smiles!!!

Attack mode crap??? Who's attacking you? I'm not. I'm just discussing an observation, nailingit.

BTW, in later episodes, Nellie grew up from her brat years (even though the REAL person she portrayed actually wasn't a brat. She just tried to portray herself as something she truly wasn't.) Wouldn't it be great if others would have grown up as well???

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So nailingit...what is that "solid point" you're trying to make this morning??? Just curious.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Attack mode crap??? Who's attacking you? I'm not. I'm just discussing an observation, nailingit.*

I know it's early but...

I was referencing your absurd accusation in your 7:03 post. But you know that as I gave the quotation. You do this type of doublespeak all the time. Don't care for your trolling go.....you can move on now.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I got the same message from JHB...even sent my two-cents' worth back to her yet again...like it'll do any good. The project is set in stone. Now it's just a matter of getting back to basics and building what needs to be built.

In my opinion...a straight, across the board replacement of both bridges and ramps (no double deck design, no light rail), improvement of the Corridor from Lombard, south to Capitol Highway, 4-lane bypass bridge to upcoming port district on Hayden Island and West Marine Drive, commuter rail (possible future addition to AMTRAK service) with replacement railroad bridge to accommodate increased rail traffic.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It goes both ways, nailingit! It's not all about you and it's not all about me, ya know. That 7:03 comment was a reference to yours at 6:54 am which you had taken personally, the comments I made a few minutes earlier. Did I say they were only directed at you, Nailingit? No I did not. They were general statements. I'd read the entire list of comments from the evening before and saw the trend that was happening, so I decided to say something to try to neutralize the situation...hence the reminder. Nothing more, nothing less. Try not to take everything I say as an instigation to incite anything. Human behavioral emotions take off and others will have to get their two-cents' worth in and it'll appear like a juvenile "gang up" of sorts. Then everything turns sour. I was hoping everyone was past that but I guess it's the same old, same old around these parts. Honestly nailingit...the worst part about written comments is the fact they can be taken in so many different ways. I'm wondering if we were all in a room together, if this type of discussion would be understood in a different light...possibly a lot more friendly???

Hey I know...how 'bout pourin' yourself another cup of coffee. I'll do the same, then we'll both get started all over again...talking about issues on the table rather than our little tet-A-tet rut we both seem to engage in too much lately. We've said what we're going to say. What do you say we move on and get back on task? I'm game...are you???

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I'm merely making my own public statement that I would like to see everyone remain on task.*

*What do you say we move on and get back on task?*

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from. Based on past experiences goldenoldie, I don't really care to know. Again, feel free to move on. Lot's of sunshine today!!! I think I'll do some gardening!!!

1task noun \ˈtask\

Definition of TASK

1
a : a usually assigned piece of work often to be finished within a certain time
b : something hard or unpleasant that has to be done
c : duty, function
2
: subjection to adverse criticism : reprimand —used in the expressions to take, call, or bring to task
See task defined for English-language learners »
See task defined for kids »
Examples of TASK

Our first task is to review the budget.

Origin of TASK

Middle English taske, from Middle French dialect (Picardy, Flanders) tasque, from Medieval Latin tasca tax or service imposed by a feudal superior, alteration of *taxa, from taxare to tax
First Known Use: 14th century
Related to TASK

Synonyms: assignment, duty, job, chore
[+]more
Synonym Discussion of TASK

task, duty, job, chore, stint, assignment mean a piece of work to be done. task implies work imposed by a person in authority or an employer or by circumstance . duty implies an obligation to perform or responsibility for performance . job applies to a piece of work voluntarily performed; it may sometimes suggest difficulty or importance . chore implies a minor routine activity necessary for maintaining a household or farm . stint implies a carefully allotted or measured quantity of assigned work or service . assignment implies a definite limited task assigned by one in authority .
Rhymes with TASK

ask, bask, Basque, cask, casque, flask, mask, masque, Pasch, Rask
Learn More About TASK

Thesaurus: All synonyms and antonyms for "task"
Spanish-English Dictionary: Translation of "task"
Medical Dictionary: Definition of "task"
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Next Word in the Dictionary: task–and–bonus system
Previous Word in the Dictionary: Tasian (noun)
All Words Near: task
Seen & Heard

What made you want to look up task? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible). *You wouldn't believe it if I told you!*

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 14, 2012 at 9:11 p.m.,

The short answer to why is because all these side issues detract from the real discussion that needs to take place in the upcoming Presidential election - what can our government continue to pay for and how are we going to do it.

The only reason that Pres Obama wants Romney's tax returns made public is to show he's a billionaire who paid a lower effective tax rate than most of us because a majority of his income was from investments. Should he pay more? I think 'yes' - but the answer is to change the tax code, not attack the man who legally followed it. And to want him to release back to the 90's? Last I looked at this area was when I was wondering whether to hold onto my records that went back to the 80's. The answer was most people can get rid of your records after 3 years - someone like Romney that might want to write off investment losses needs to hold for 7 years.

This War On Women was due to Santorum. Now that he's gone, don't expect Romney to initiate anything that changes the current status quo, to include abortion. But do expect Pres Obama's team to keep bringing it up - anything to keep the argument alive that regulating health care is a federal prerogative and not one that belongs with the individual states. I've not heard of any state attempting to limit access to contraception - and personally I would consider such an effort stupid - in this country, even practicing Catholics overwhelmingly support using them. As for the recent Virginia legislation requiring ultrasounds before permitting an abortion - all legal and justified under the current interpretations of Roe v. Wade. The liberal wing of the Democratic party, which believes this decision should rest entirely with the woman involved, is cashing in on the Santorum nonsense and resurrecting an old argument. Given the current makeup of the Supreme Court - it's all just noise.

I see you didn't challenge my comment that the Obama birth certificate "controversy" is stupid. I gather you agree with that observation!

Anyhow - back to my primary point. In the upcoming election, anything that detracts from how we're going to repair our country's economy is a sidetrack (or a smokescreen). There are many issues that do need to be discussed in context with this - national health care and immigration reforms, for example. Why women lost jobs at a higher rate than men during the current recession (or whatever you want to label it) is a valid discussion. But an old argument, one that revives every so often, can be tabled until later. In my opinion.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


David Madore is distancing himself from the tolling/CRC controversy by not mentioning these issues directly on his FB into page: http://www.facebook.com/notes/david-madore/about-david/329483617108920

However, re-electing Tom Mielke is is first bullet point in his "values" statement.

Yikes!

Columbian journalists: I cannot ask him directly why he is making these choices, but you can. Please do so at your first opportunity. This voter would very much appreciate your efforts to better inform me.

Someone advised him to step back from mentioning CRC and tolling directly because he needs the support of fellow Clark County business owners, many of whom support tolling because they believe it will keep shoppers on the North Bank of The Columbia.

They need to remind him that attaching himself to the vacuous Mr. Mielke will bring his candidacy down, too.

I know why he wants Mielke to keep his position on the CC Board: Mielke will parrot anything and everything Madore feeds him. We will have David Madore squared, which may actually be an improvement over Mielke solo.

Read All Politics is Local today and cringe at Mr. Mielke's latest brain fart. The guy needs a brain handler.

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Are you heading for the caucuses today?

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


An alternative to Mielke that has my attention and a new donation:

http://votejoetanner.com/?q=node/1

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 14, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.

I'd be shooting from the hip when it comes to details!!

Up through the early 70's, a blue collar working man (woman) could support a family - often better than someone with a college degree. Corporate America claimed the unions and a demand for even higher wages made the cost of doing business too expensive. Probably a contributor (especially in the auto building industry) - but hardly the only reason.

I think Right to Work laws are a step in the right direction; the states that are experiencing economic growth have these laws. But some of the most depressed states are also Right to Work, so that can't be more than a part of the answer.

On the other end of the discussion - should US corporations (e.g. Nike) be allowed to manufacture overseas and then sell their products here without some sort of import tariffs? Nike's cost to manufacture their shoes and clothing is mere pennies on the dollars we pay in the stores - is this all profit? Their ability to sponsor anything and everything related to sports suggest a large percentage is.

Also, a poorly regulated Wall Street was definitely a contributor.

Taxes paid in, by both business and individual, have to be brought in line with services expected.

As I said - this is a very large problem that will take a comprehensive approach from many directions to turn around. Focusing on just one or two aspects of it (as the Dems and Repubs are doing) won't achieve a real, lasting turnaround.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

My first attempt yesterday didn't turn out all that well. I went with half unbleached white and half white wheat, and the loaves were kind of dense and puny. Until it warms up, I suppose I'll have to adjust the wheat downward to get the proper rising. Sticking the bowl in a warmed oven never seems to work as well.

I tried mesquite honey instead of the usual clover/flower blend - also probably a mistake. I prefer mesquite on my toast, but it's probably not sweet enough for baking. I ground up a handful of walnuts and tossed that in - at least the end result had some flavor from this.

I grabbed a bag of powdered milk suggested for baking from the store you suggested, and when I got home I saw it was non-instant. What??? Never heard of this. Anyhow, I mixed it with the water to dissolve it, rather than blending with the flour as I'd normally do. Was this necessary?

roger — April 15, 2012 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Mielke has always been part of the crowd that opposed the CRC, believing building the 192nd Ave bridge makes more sense. David Madore is also part of this group. There are two points that I can agree with them on.

First, the CRC does next to nothing to move vehicular traffic through the I5 corridor any faster. Our current problem here in Clark is to get cars and trucks across the river - until the I5 is rebuilt all the way south to the I205 split, this isn't happening. To build the bridge itself does next to nothing - except bring light rail to Vancouver.

Second, the growth in Clark County is largely on the east side. Businesses are setting up there; not in old Vancouver. Housing expansion is toward Camas. In their minds, improving transportation across the river by building another bridge in that area makes more sense than rebuilding a bridge that has plenty of life left in it. Building for the future is good, but fixing today's problems is better.

I believe the article you're referencing has a very brief blurb that Mielke voted against the final resolution because he thought it didn't settle anything. And he is possibly correct. What they came up with pushes a decision out a couple more months, while they pretend to research alternate funding (they have to know this info already). This will give Mayor Leavitt and the Vancouver contingent a chance to negotiate with the other two County C-Tran Board members - is there some way they'd renege on their promise of a vote for all of the C-Tran service district? Mielke wanted that option put to rest the other night.

All Politics can be informative reading, but it's also often very biased. They've always portrayed both Pat Campbell and Mielke in a negative light.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Thanks for your thoughtful input. I always enjoy reading the depth of thought and good examples that go into your opinions. :)

Mr. Mielke is his own worse enemy, really. His utterances are public record. Some folks like what he says. Others think, "huh?" The fact that Bill Barron and his fellow commissioners have to explain reality to him so often concerns me. We are paying this guy to make informed decisions on our behalf.

I have also been the recipient of a rambling, angry email from him that made little sense. It was in response to a respectful inquiry I sent to him asking for further information on a comment he made in public.

I correspond respectfully with my elected officials often with questions and concerns and have never, ever received such a disjointed, angry tirade (full of run on sentences and misspellings)from anyone else, Republican or Democrat.

That email, paired with his unedited comments on the record helped me make up my mind about him.

If we are going to pay a salary to a commissioner, I want them to show more knowledge and civility.

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I was referring to this section of All Politics is Local blog:

***Before Stuart's successful motion, Mielke made a motion, which was seconded by Washougal City Councilor Connie Jo Freeman, to stop the CRC until funding is determined.

Stuart asked if C-Tran can legally make that motion.

No, said attorney Tom Wolfendale. He explained that C-Tran does not have legal authority over interstate transit projects.

Mielke, who made one attempt at revising the motion into something the board can legally do, eventually withdrew the motion.

***

He has been on the CC Commission for about 4 years now. Why would he not know that this little legislative body cannot make decisions for an interstate transit project?

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In response to John Laird's column this morning, FB poster Rory Bowman wrote this:

"The gender gap doesn't matter as much as one might think because, for the most part, unmarried women don't vote. Although about a quarter of the eligible electorate, only about six in ten unmarried women are registered and fewer than half of those voted in 2010. Unmarried mothers tend to have the lowest participation rates, while Republican women do as they are told."

Was he being facetious or for real? Why not try to woo the votes of single women rather than dismissing them outright as no shows?

I am going to spend some time reading this PDF today. You will need to select the link to be directed to it:

http://www.voterparticipation.org/research/the-power-of-unmarried-women/

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

I read the Bowman comment you mentioned and nearly died laughing. My wife was a Republican. And as near as I can tell, she never did what she was told. (Not by me, anyhow.)

As for the lack of women voting in general - I found that comment suspect. Both Pres Obama and JFK were (supposedly) elected due largely to the high numbers of women voting for them.

There may be some validity to the high numbers of unregistered and not voting in recent years. But 2010 was a non-Presidential election, and these historically have lower turnouts. I wouldn't be surprised if extending his statement to males would see a similar pattern.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I read same comment and was also not clear if he was joking or serious. I took a quick look at your link.

IF I read it correctly, then unmarried women were less likely to vote but if they did, it was for Ds. The reports puts them into a category of "rising electorate" and projects higher voter turnout for them in next elections. Results therefore would point toward them voting D.

Again, it was a quick look and I might have misread it.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


busy morning.

**GOLDIE:** thanks for the 'stop that!' reminder about postings that are all flash and no light. went back and re-read the offending one, you're right. i'll try to keep mine to a better level of discourse again.

**PREZ ELECTION**: it may be the same thing, but i see the upcoming election as critical for deciding the course the country will take. do we double-down on our proven methods of governing via constitutional mandate? do we push regulations back that are ruining the ability of business to create jobs? do we refuse to let federal sources further into our lives, even push that back, too?

or, from the other side, do we change the course of the country? do we demand more socialism and greater control of business? do we concentrate power at the federal level, instead of limiting it as the constitution does? do we give more authority to the office of the president instead of the current method of congress first?

my opinion is; we've seen how great our country can become when we limit government's powers of we, the people. we've built the greatest country in history because government didn't control our business, our personal lives and our children's futures. we've also seen what a 'socialism first' system brings. in greece, riots when the money ran out and economic collapse. in england, riots when programs were cut and economic turmoil. in france, cutting social programs because the money ran out. even china has had to change it's systems -increase wages, allow some business freedom- because it can't sustain its economy. seems kinda clear to me, which course we must have here.

DeeLittle — April 15, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, glad you are posting again and hope you feel better soon.

Mike Briggs is the ultimate poster. If he can't post here on C, he will post on the local paper. He starts out ok and it goes downhill from there.

As we both know, I might disagree to some extent with your last post re socialism and limit of gov, but I can most certainly appreciate the way you presented it. Nice and straight forward!

I am in agreement that we need to limit a few things and I am most certainly always in total agreement when we talk about debt issues. But I rather not see biz regulations taken away. If they would have been a bit more regulated, we would probably not be where we are. Regulating WS and banks is a good thing in my opinion, or unbridled human greed runs away with it. Regulating the food industry is also a great thing, or soon we will all be eating pink slime and genetically modified who-know-what- chemicals courtesy of Monsanto.

And I am always in agreement when we talk about politicians in DC. No matter which side...bunch of....(insert word of choice here)

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**LUV**

we do agree on more than we disagree on, that's fer shur :)

re. gvt reg's on business; when i read where the EPA required chuck's market to spend the equivalent of his whole expansion budget *just for a permit*, and on top of that must return the storm water runoff patterns *to what was there before europeans set foot on the continent*, we've gone insane.

what we have now are gvt ee's who justify their salaries by writing up businesses for nonsense-violations of various codes and permits, and collecting fines for it.

swat the camel on it's nose with that book of regulations and force him back out of the tent.

DeeLittle — April 15, 2012 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, I never could figure out the storm water regulation either. But I just read the other day that the majority of WA counties are in compliance with this, so what do I miss here?

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


could be that clark county just has more animus towards business than other counties.

that, and they're greedy money guzzlers.

DeeLittle — April 15, 2012 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey you guys, I know you are talking about Mike Briggs and I was just reading about Jamie in the C and his comments were still there. I don't know what's up with him but he really goes over the top sometimes. Then again, who doesn't.

***On another note....***

I got an email from Best Buy today telling me that they are closing the Mill Plane store and to be sure to come by and get some of their stuff at a 20% discount. Actually, this is from the letter;

"The Mill Plain Best Buy store is permanently closing on May 12, or when supplies run out, whichever is earlier. We apologize for the inconvenience. However, we want to let you know about an opportunity to enjoy big savings on select, remaining merchandise throughout the store."

The word "select" is key here. I went down to check out a color Nook for my Wife. They had plenty of them but those WEREN'T discounted because "they are transferable". Meaning, if we can sell them in another store we won't discount them. So I ask you, what does that leave? Can't EVERYTHING be transferred?

It's things like this that piss me off!

hawkeye — April 15, 2012 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, yes they are. I noticed that myself especially when they upped the permit rates. As a home owner, it can cost more to get a permit than the actual work included. How stupid is that.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just got back from my precinct caucus (please don't lob shells at me for showing up for the Dems; give me a pat on the back for participating in the voting process on a beautiful sunny day).

Met Jon Haugen (I liked what he had to say) and thanked Jim Moeller (he introduced a bill that helped some disabled kids). Came away a delegate for the Clark County convention.

4 years ago we were fighting each other for the honor. This time, turn out was puny.

Hope some young people show up. We had a few, but they came with their parents.

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:37- Could not make it today.( 20 minutes left!) I hope you could contribute to your precinct gathering. We need your voice to be heard!

roger- I hardly know where to begin! In short Santorum brought an already existing condition to to public light. Santorum represents what has been taking place since the 2010 baggers dirtied up DC more than it already was. The Republicans want to control decision making for women's health rather than doctors in some areas! Creepy as hell!!!

The tax thing. One of the richest men in the world wants to be arguably the most powerful man in the world. I don't believe we've ever had a nominee so secretive. This is the guy that purchased all the computers related to his time as governor in order to conceal info, as well as destroyed all paper work relating. The release of his tax returns should be zero problem.

*Transparency--the new "hip" word for politicians. What a ruse!*...elisi. roger- The media can be so overpowering and influential with some. The messaging nowadays makes transparency a joke. The line has to be drawn somewhere. What little we do know (Cayman island off shore accounts etc.) raises questions. Again, this guy wants to be Prez.....why is revealing your source/quanity of income and the tax you paid on it a problem for Willard?

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-oops...zero minutes left!

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Many pats on the back!

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *I see you didn't challenge my comment that the Obama birth certificate "controversy" is stupid. I gather you agree with that observation!*

Absolutely! This birther nonsense comes from a deep seated mindset steeped in prejudice and bigotry and hatred. The birther argument is ugly and embarrassing. I was disappointed Obama released anything pertaining to citizenship. Some things are below the Office, this was certainly one of them.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 15, 2012 at 2:54 p.m.

And what precinct are you representing? Good for you.

hawkeye — April 15, 2012 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I find the "birther" issue interesting, the same liberals that questioned McCain's birth, insist that only a racist would question Obama's.

frobert — April 15, 2012 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have ALWAYS thought the "birther" idea was really lame. By the time a person gets to the Presidential level in government, don't you think SOMEONE would have checked his or hers qualifications sometime in their history?

BTW, who is this Terry Busch guy, seems that to him ALL of us Demos are communists.

hawkeye — April 15, 2012 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk,
Terry Bush has been around for years. Dare I say it? Rabid person. Not one person on forum is as bad as he is. Not one.

Birthers: Nail, I cannot remember which prez, but I read before that Obama is not first person this happened to. Turns out they tried this in distant past with one or two other presidents.

As far as McCain goes: this here lib never ever questioned that he was a citizen. I found that topic to be quite ignorant when it popped up during last election. Honestly, after so many years in politics and his military background, I figured he was a citizen. Period.

And as to Obama birthers: how ignorant. They really need to presume that all these years two people decided that just in case their son would become prez, they better fake a birth certificate. Yea okay.......there's foresight alright.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goooooood Afternoon, Everyone!!!

Hey nailingit, I see you answered your own question regarding the use of the word "task" in my statement. I'd be more happy to share my motives in utilization of that word which I deem as appropriate.

Task -
(1) Webster's - a duty or function. (A great word to utilize as we would all like to see this forum continue to function in order to achieve the right result...open communication!!! And it takes each and every one of us to work together as a team to make the discussion a success. Wouldn't you think???)

(2) Free online dictionary - A function to be performed; an objective. (My objective - that we can all get along and share in an open discussion without elevated emotions leading to needling of each other and unnecessary name calling or berating.)

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, glad to hear you participated in the Democratic Precinct Caucus! Too bad there wasn't a big turnout. Maybe the nice weather had something to do with it.

Today was "Family Day" for me as we enjoyed the grandkids playing on the lawn while we roasted lamb on the spit and prepared roast lemon potatoes, spanakopita, dolmathes, Paschalina Kouloura (Easter Bread), Greek Salad, olives and feta drizzled with extra virgin olive oil and Greek oregano sprinkled over the top, fresh cucumbers, koulourakia (Easter cookies) and of course, my home made bread to drench in the leftover olive oil and oregano. For the family members who couldn't make it today, we made sure they had a good helping to enjoy as well. It was our youngest grandchild's first Easter which made the day even more special (as it does with each grandchild on their first Easter).

All is good...and everybody is content. We have wonderful memories to carry for many, many years!!! And yes, I have a HUGE grin on my face right now.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a wonderful experience today in Uptown Village at the Meadowlark Tea Room!!! Oh how I wished I could have been two places at once today!!!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/ap...

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: Here's another birther controversy: George Romney was born in a Mormon colony in Mexico. Was there any hoopla about that when he ran for President?

Anyone know?

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit @ 3:53 *Birthers: Nail, I cannot remember which prez, but I read before that Obama is not first person this happened to. Turns out they tried this in distant past with one or two other presidents.*

luvit, I didn't see a great source for this info. Wiki Answers states that two, Martin Van Beuran 1837-1841 & Chester McAuthor 1881-1885 were questioned. Something about questionable Dutch/Canadian heritages. Interesting info but nothing like the race infused hatred the right is putting on display today.

*And as to Obama birthers: how ignorant.*

It seems a few days don't go by before ANOTHER GOP politician is being spotlighted for racist e-mails, comments, interviews etc. I lived in your homeland during the 2008 campaign/election period. I was embarrassed daily for our citizens on the right, as I dialogued quite a bit with my German/International/American co-workers about politics.

'Birtherism' is nothing more than racism playing out on the American stage. It seems to rear it's ugly head once in awhile both here and on the FB side. :(

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, from what I understand...George Romney's parents were American citizens living in the Mormon colony. I guess it's much like John McCain's situation, being born in Panama or Obama's situation, being born in Hawaii before it became a state. It's much a case of who's side you are on when either supporting the fact or condemning it...you think???

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.

And a registered democrat gunning down an unarmed black child is nothing but racism. So my question is; Do you have a point?

frobert — April 15, 2012 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*or Obama's situation, being born in Hawaii before it became a state.*

President of the United States Barack Obama was in 1961. Hawaii became a state in 1959.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- Context. The birther movement is being discussed. Your comment makes no sense.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Curious...the word "birther" isn't in the Merriam Webster Dictionary. I googled it and came up with several different links...and the Urban Dictionary reference confused the definitions even further. Hey nailingit, when you refer to "birther," could you explain your definition so that I am sure I understand where you're coming from? I'm pretty sure which reference to the definition you are referring...and if I'm correct, I think I actually agree with your comment at 4:41 pm.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops!!! Thanks, Nailingit @ 4:46 pm. For some reason, I was thinking Obama was older. I guess it all falls back on the birth certificate controversy, huh!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ 4:46 *Barack Obama was in 1961.* Should be... Barack Obama was born in 1961.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.

Sorry but my comment makes more sense then your out of context comment concerning racist e-mails etc. on the right. I was pointing out that racism doesn't limited to the right as you insist. Remember which one of these parties openly supported racism. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the republicans.

frobert — April 15, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wait a second...Frobert, what bearing does his voting preference have on the discussion??? That's like saying he shot the kid because he was wearing sweat socks instead of argyles.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No controversy from the left. No lines to be blurred on this one.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail...I knew what you meant.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: Kalo Pascha! The food sounds delicious.....

The Senate passed a resolution declaring that McCain was a natural-born citizen. The resolution was passed by unanimous consent. The bill was written and submitted by Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill, and co sponsored by both Democratic presidential candidates at the time, Sen. Hillary Clinton, and Sen. Barack Obama. There was only one Republican co-sponsor, Tom Coburn.

The issue had something to do with babies born overseas to American citizens before a 1941 law, as was McCain.

My foreign-born baby had to have documentation by the state department that he was a US citizen born abroad. He enjoyed dual citizenship because his birth country claimed him, too. :) They have figured it out better now.

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger @ 9:15 a.m.

I have found that over the years, I've had to endure a lot of trial and error, hit and misses when it comes to bread baking. Once you find the recipe that works, it'll get better each time.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro- It's April 15, 2012. Racist e-mails from birther politicians when discussing birthers is out of context? This is starting to sound like a SNL skit!

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 4:52 p.m

"what bearing does his voting preference have on the discussion??? "

The bearing is that democrats can be and often are racist, unlike nails usually out of context posts would have you believe.

frobert — April 15, 2012 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle @ 11:44 a.m.
When I posted the community guidelines, it was also a reminder to myself. I'll just call it a "work in progress" thing for me, too....8)

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yea okay, we all know what birthers refer to in context of this conversation.

Gold-glad you had a good day. I was/am working on computer and skipped sun. Pathetic. Your day-better than mine.

Nail: I cringe when I go home and they start asking me about American politics. I am usually somewhat embarrassed and humiliated. Never matters what side they are on, left or right or middle or Mars, they usually shake their heads and wonder why we do what we do and why we discuss what we discuss. I cannot say if our Angela is religious or which religion she belongs to or if she attends church. I cannot tell you how little I actually know about her personal life. Nobody really cares as they tend to vote according to large issues and party and not little things. It was especially bad when George got voted in the second time (if he really did, but that's another topic).

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...I wish the same to you. (and it was delicious). Thanks for the further explanation. I am curious...for people who have dual status, are they allowed to become president or is there really anything in the rules that say otherwise??? As far as I'm concerned, he's a US Citizen from birth since his mother was...or was she? This is where it confuses me with all the confusion across the internet. I'd heard she registered as a Kenyan Citizen before her son was born...but had rescinded that citizenship as well.

Dang...it makes my head spin. I swear the information on the internet is meant to throw everyone into a big tizzy sometimes! Too many conflicting reports. All the more reason to not trust everything we read, huh!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, if I was understanding nailingit's description as to what a birther was...then I agreed with his statement which read "'Birtherism' is nothing more than racism playing out on the American stage. It seems to rear it's ugly head once in awhile both here and on the FB side."

I'd like to take it one step further, courtesy of Urban Dictionary and state the definition of birther would be not just racism but prejudice as a whole...but again, that's my opinion.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, luvithere. I was actually in the house with my daughters most of the time while the guys were outside getting the food prepared on the spit as the children played. Once the meat was done, everyone joined in with great discussion, laughs and lots of fun! Nothing better than hearing the joyful laugh of little ones playing together and the little one cooing and smiling!!!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Back to Mielke not knowing what he's talking about with the CRC.

If Stuart had said that, I'd have been surprised - he's the Commissioner most heavily involved with the CRC. But Mielke can plead having misspoke - in a strange sort of way, what he thought is understandable.

We've been getting told, repeatedly, that the light rail O&M; funding we're to provide has to be in place before the Feds will commit to their $800 million to build the rail. A logical conclusion is that if no funding - no rail.

When the CRC first put forth the plan for the new bridge, light rail was planned for but not included in that package. Mayor Adams, with later support from Gov Kulanwhatever, responded with "include rail now or no bridge at all". He was thinking back to the Glenn Jackson bridge - also planned for rail to be added at a future date, but never done. So, the other CRC planners, to include Vancouver and C-Tran, jumped on board an reworked the proposal.

So, it's not too far a stretch to say that if we refuse light rail funding, then we stop the CRC.

And after all, if the Mayor of Portland can stop the project, then wouldn't it make sense that the County that will share the highest cost burden for it could also stop it?

roger — April 15, 2012 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Congrats on being a delegate!!! PLEASE keep us posted as that process plays out - it'll be nice to have some first hand info from a Basement denizen flowing our way.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger...it'll only be delayed if we vote NO MORE sales tax increase. They'll find another creative path to pay for it. Whether we want it or not...it's coming. You can thank the current administration as well as administrations in the past for the push for rail transit along major interstates. Unfortunately, they're in a spending frenzy with money we don't have...money which is having a hard time holding it's own.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit- This is one reason I enjoy reading your posts. Your perspective. You brought out a very relevant point that needed to be said.

*Never matters what side they are on, left or right or middle or Mars, they usually shake their heads and wonder why we do what we do and why we discuss what we discuss.*

No matter who I spoke with during my stay, left right middle or Mars :), they were baffled with the whole race/religion thing. In many ways most Europeans seem to be beyond these matters when it comes to politics. America should get a clue about some things and this is certainly one of them.

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - I'm thinking that was Mike George you were seeing on the Jaime page. He usually makes a decent argument. Mike Briggs was a parrot.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay...either my eyes are playing tricks on me or the day has definitely taken it's toll on me. (just teasing)

Again...nailingit, I agree with another one of your posts...the one at 5:25 pm.

..

Roger, I second your comment at 5:21 pm!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye - Terry Busch is an extremist; he makes our own Cranky sound like a Liberal in comparison. He can often make a good point, but he has a bad habit of incorporating insults that border on hatred in his comments. I think the reason he hasn't been booted is because he doesn't actually direct this at someone - it's more toward all the rest of the world who sound like commies to him. (Or some such silliness.)

What I've been trying to figure out is his avatar - who is that guitar player? I'm thinking Jeff Beck, but the pic is a bit distorted and I'm not sure about that schnozz.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Golden, BIG VISUAL here. I am sure you have seen "MY big fat Greek Wedding?" They used to do lamb on spit also. Is your house like that? I especially enjoyed the aunt who said in response to the boy friend being a vegetarian: eh, that's ok. I make lamb!

Love that movie.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


and by the way, Gold, that was a compliment. I would have loved to be at that house when they had a party. These people had FUN.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Honestly, if I were stranded in a life boat, say like the lucky Titanic survivors a hundred years ago today, I'd want to make sure I got tossed into the same boat as you.

Your ability to see the positive when most of us see something sinister or corrupt or stupid or you-name-it is a good quality. We all would be better off if we practiced that more!

Maybe Mielke just mispoke, as you suggest. :)

Speaking of Titanic. There is a great 2 hour special on the History channel tonight 8-10.

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just made myself laugh: Can you imagine a life boat with Manthou, goldie, nail, roger, Dee, Elisi, luvithere, frobert, hawkeye, etc?

Who would get thrown over first? :>}

manthou — April 15, 2012 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere, some of what you see on My Big Fat Greek Wedding is true. The large crowds...the lamb on the spit (not on the front lawn, though), lots and lots of food - total mayhem but a lot of fun, parents trying to do their best for their children, BIG weddings, and my most favorite part...When the chips are down...what do Greeks do the best??? They celebrate life. They dance and listen to wonderful folk music. They gather together in times of good as well as times of bad. Milo and portocali...apples and oranges - in other words...we're all in a basket - a basket of fruit. We may be different...yet we're all the same. (love that saying)

What I have never come across is a ginormous Greek flag painted on the garage, though. Maybe a small Greek Flag flying in the yard near a pool, lol. Yes, the parents who can afford it will buy their kids their first homes as part of the daughter's dowry. They want only the best for them...and the tradition continues down from generation to generation. And the little Yia Yia running off every chance she can get??? I think we all feel that way some times.

Now...the first and foremost recommendation I can tell you, given my experiences, luvithere...make sure before you learn ANY Greek phrases, that you check out the translation and understand where to use the emphasis in the choice of words before utilizing it. I guarantee you...the brother and cousin teaching Ian Miller how to speak Greek on My Big Fat Greek Wedding...*OH...NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!* That's their most favorite trick in the book!!! And just like in the English language...all it takes is changing one syllable and you're saying potty words...nasty potty words!!!

You've made me smile this afternoon, Luvithere! (And yes, I love that movie as well as Nia Vardalos' other movie "My Life in Ruins.")

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL Manthou. My bet is on either Nail or Fro.

No offense boys. None meant.

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...I don't think anybody would get thrown overboard. It takes a good team to make things work. I think the folks in the forum are a pretty gosh-darned good team, even if we do spar on occasion with each other!!!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, is that the one with Richard Dreyfuss? Yes, that was a good one also.
I have an urge for a Bundt now, with a flower in the middle....

luvithere — April 15, 2012 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh...one more comment to Luvithere regarding My Big Fat Greek Wedding...

Never seen a Greek use Windex on anything BUT windows, mirrors and counter tops. Duct tape to fix things??? Well..um..er...hehehehe... they use it. Heck, now there's duct tape wallets and purses and even dresses.

The spitting thing??? A little overboard in the movie. They don't really spit. They say pthou, pthou!! Not sure if it's a superstition or what it is. My mother in law used to do that...after she put a clove of garlic in my pocket for safe travel.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes...I loved his character in that movie. Talk about a way to bring a group together!!!

A bondt? Did she say bondt? What's a bondt? (It's a cake). OOOOH a cake!!!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...about that life boat. If it had oars, I'm afraid we'd be going around in circles, lol.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay first of all...I TRIED to get my parents to put a Greek Flag on the Garage door and they wouldn't! Second...it's not windex that we use it's extra virgin olive oil! And Third, if a Greek daughter tries to move out of the house, they get the biggest guilt trip of Why you gonna leave me? Or Going to the local community college! <- My big fat Greek Wedding- that last part is true btw.

As for a life boat...I don't think it would stay a float with all those old geezers in there...excuse me I mean men.

mxfun118 — April 15, 2012 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'd bet you have a Greek Flag somewhere in your place, mxfun118!!! And that lifeboat had better be a big one!

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ummm Columbian....you're captcha really really sucks. I don't speak or write in Arabic or Chinese. I speak and write English, Greek, French, Spanish, Nerd, and Sarcasm. I would expect Spanish to be in the captcha but really???

mxfun118 — April 15, 2012 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I would have chosen to go down with the ship! :)

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'd still throw you a life ring, nailingit.

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I just made myself laugh: Can you imagine a life boat with Manthou, goldie, nail, roger, Dee, Elisi, luvithere, frobert, hawkeye, etc?
Who would get thrown over first? :>}*

we'd never get as far as IN the boat. we'd be arguing about who should go first, it'd morph into a class warfare rumble and we'd still be fighting when the water was to our ears.

note: i don't mind the impossible captcha's... i viciously press 'reload' while, in my mind, i'm screaming, *you're fired!*!!!!

DeeLittle — April 15, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How thoughtful of you goldenoldie...

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye,

I went to the article you linked to and saw no Mike Briggs; just one comment from Mike George. I wonder....

Could you (or someone) check the following - http://www.columbian.com/weblogs/loca...

If Briggs shows up there, then there's a way to block one's ability to see other posters - I suppose like the Ignore User option here in reverse.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Please allow me to make the following lifeboat proposals.

Ladies enter first, followed by the men.

Ladies to the rear.

Men man the oars.

NO BACKSEAT DRIVING!!!!

Thank you.

roger — April 15, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger - No going in circles, either. It's bound to get us backseat drivers a bit mouthy, lol.

..

nailingit...

Have a good evening...8)

goldenoldie — April 15, 2012 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 15, 2012 at 8:03 p.m

Agreed!

As for, roger — April 15, 2012 at 7:59 p.m

Briggs is there as well, several times.

hawkeye — April 15, 2012 at 9:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2yrMz...

Some things just ain't meant to be.

I'll take my chances with the mermaids...

nailingit — April 15, 2012 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal



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