Open forum Aug 13-19

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ATTENTION

Hello, everyone. I have been contacted by a few of you about some "technical difficulties" we have been experiencing with commenting on the open forums the past few days. I have been in contact with the vendor whose system we use as a comments engine so to speak. Today I was told it should be operational by about 1:15 pm. My fingers are crossed. Thank you for your patience and again, my apologies.

-- John Hill, web editor

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433 comments

Comments

Testing. Testing, one, two, three... Is this thing on?

Drift — August 13, 2012 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like we are back in business!

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yo---- So what do we think of Paul Ryan? Myself, I don't think he's going to be happy as VP (if they get in). I'll bet he puts a hit out on Romney. It seems to me there is going to be a power struggle between the two.

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, John! interesting... our near simultaneous posts. Heh!

Hawk, it looks like there's always a bit of friction in the relationship. Why I find that humorous as all get-out I don't know.

Drift — August 13, 2012 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ryan's kind of young; he may see this as a ticket punch to the top.

Seeing as how he's the author of the House budget proposal, this is (probably) the reason he's on the ticket. If he's in charge of this area, and given fairly free rein (a la Cheney with Defense under GWB), then I think he and Romney will play well together. But if Romney starts making drastic changes to the plan - then it may get testy.

And it probably wouldn't matter too much. The Dems will probably retain the Senate - right? And I suspect Harry Reid would sit back, look at Boehner and then back to Romney, and start talking about paybacks.

roger — August 13, 2012 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looking at his tax plan, he wants to raise taxes on the bottom scale and lower them at the top. Up to $30k per year, you would pay more in taxes and after that the rate goes down with a high of -12.5% for those making $1m and above. Now does that seem fair to anyone?

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, I'm sure you have OVER SIMPLIFIED or EMBELLISHED it just a bit.. I don't know how you can get those figures yet you can't figure out how much the Obama health care plan will cost you and everyone esle. Your painting with broad brush just leaves me laughing... And showing a little lack of???

Don't worry Nail will get the ACTUAL facts... Lets just wait till he comes out with his sources... Thats why you should be looking at his actual proposal.. Kinda like looking at the OBHCP and what it will cost every tax paying poerson in the US..Till 2038

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why don't you look for yourself because my stupid brain can't figure out complicated graphs and stuff like that.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/poor-poorer-ryans-budgets-affect-162150573.html?l=1

Of course that is if you can read better than you spell.

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

Was just reading your "Yahoo Link" and here is just a little Snap shot which I cut and pasted for all the readers

"We don't **know exactly** how Ryan's tax cuts would break down by family income level, but the Tax Policy Center has published an estimate based on the Ryan-inspired budget passed by the House of Representatives this year. The upshot is that the federal income tax code -- the one highly-progressive part of our tax system -- would become significantly less progressive. Taxes would **barely change (or even rise**) on the low-income Americans, and the top 1% would see a windfall from the elimination of taxes on most of their investment income.

Remembering this was also a brokered deal betwen Mr Ryan and Mr Blumehauer over in Portland. This was just not a Ryan plan although he is given credit for a plan that would actually create a balanced budget, something Obama can't seem to get a grasp of.. it's very important to also understand some very high level democrats also climed on board..Ryan is getting credit for Crafting something he is an expert on, Finance ... I can't wait for the Vice Presidential debates.. Mr ryan will make Mr Biden look like a simpleton, oh wait he is.. he still thinks the Taliban are our friends and not our enemies. My son who is now home from Afganistan disagrees slightly with this take.. Oh as does 99% of our military fighting over there I would assume..

Keep your head in the sand about the last 4 years which 2 of them Mr Obama had full Democratic control but passed nothing but the OHCP which will increase everyones taxes wether you join there program or not.. I don't hear ya saying sumpin now.. Get that figure how much the OHCP will cost you.. I bet you can't or won't...LMAO

vanwadreamer — August 13, 2012 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah. Too funny, Drift. I removed mine but I can leave yours up if you want. Thanks for being so patient, everyone. The vendor we bought our content management system from did something on Thursday morning that broke the comments engine. I'd thought it would be working by Friday afternoon and forgot to check back to confirm that it was. My bad, and my apologies. Glad it's working again.

John Hill (Columbian Staff) — August 13, 2012 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Leave it or not, John - it's of no import. Just don't be forgetting us down here no more, eh? ;^)

Drift — August 13, 2012 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.

Paul Ryan talks a good line on the budget, but he was all for the bailouts just like Obama/Romney. He also voted for more war and less personal liberty, he represents what is wrong not what is right.

frobert — August 13, 2012 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


van- I love how you cut and paste just what you like. You forgot this;

"Those making $1 million or more would enjoy an average tax cut of $265,000 and see their after-tax income increase by 12.5 percent," TPC found. "By contrast, half of those making between $20,000 and $30,000 would get no tax cut at all."

"It is stark, but broadly accurate, to say that the less you benefit from Ryan's tax cuts, the more you would potentially suffer from Ryan spending cuts. Most of Ryan's cuts to government -- to offset his deep tax cuts for the rich -- fall on the back of the poor."

"He eliminates Obamacare subsidies, cuts spending on CHIP and Medicaid, begins to pare down Medicare, and takes a sixth out of income security. As a result, health care saving and spending as a share of the family budget would almost certainly grow even faster than projected."

**see, I can do it too. ***

As for the affordable healthcare plan, we were talking about taxes. I'm sure that as soon as they figure it all out, we will see some numbers but according to the last thing I heard from the CBO, it would be cheaper to keep it than to discontinue it.

Oh BTW, where did I embellish or oversimplify?

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, glad the basement is live again. On Paul Ryan choice: was Obama handed a gift here? While I consider the role of VP to be not very important (as long as prez lives, this is a very symbolic selection. Mitty has aligned himself with the tea party and the House. I guess he needs to stand for something as alone he stands for...not much. Will the democrat side be sufficiently energized to point out just who exactly benefits from this section and who does not? (Hint: it isn't the majority of the population). will they be energized enough to get off their behinds and vote?

luvithere — August 13, 2012 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 13, 2012 at 4:22 p.m.

There isn't enough difference between Romney and Obama, to get anyone but the party faithful out to vote.

frobert — August 13, 2012 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In most cases the VP choice has little to do with the election. Mittens has managed to put it front and center. I think one reason was to drown out calls to put his taxes on the table. Those calls aren't going to stop. When Ryan went on 60 minutes and proclaimed he'd only show the public two years of tax returns, (even though he submitted more to be vetted), I said to my wife, "what a arrogant bastard". Both of them. I have to think many believe the same.

Ryan voted for Iraq/Afghanistan wars, a 500 Billion prescription drug plan, and tax cuts for the wealthy, all unpaid for which got us in the financial hell hole to begin with. He should be a Tea Party's nightmare, instead he's their hero due to social positions.

He believes in personhood for zygotes, to include zero abortion, to include outlawing abortion in cases of incest, rape, even when the mother's life is in jeopardy.

He wants to increase funding for DOD/Military while advocating severe cutbacks in homeland security, who, among many things, are in charge of securing our borders and ports, increasing the threat of foreign terrorism.

Serving 13 years in Congress he's managed to get only two bills passed. One was renaming a Post Office, while the other had to do with bows & arrows for Christ's sake.

Romney/Ryan have zero foreign policy experience. Except when Mittens embarrassed himself in England and fired up the Palestinians over callused mind depleting remarks.

This pick in many ways is a Dems dream. But it could turn into a nightmare. Ryan is personable, young, loved by Limbaugh & the powerful wealthy elite right. Think Dubya. For **8** years! Anything can happen. The Fox news middle class viewers, by & large, will be swayed to vote against their own interests as will as their children's.

Mittens further isolated the women's vote, and jeopardized swing states such as Florida & Iowa, where senior disparity exists, due to turning Medicare into a voucher program. Thank you Mitt!

The lines aren't fuzzy anymore. Clear as a bell. And if we the voter don't hear it ding, in our backside will be a dong.

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.

I'm thinking you're pretty much on the mark with the effect on the various programs we've come to depend on. Medicare is about to go under, and I believe I just read an article that says we're going to get less out of Social Security than we put in. The Repubs want to privatize everything. This, with lack of effective controls on the corporate world, is going to make us targets. Editor Lou likes to carry on about public employee pension plans; well, most people I know have seen their 401(k)s take a pounding. Retirement plans are history;l now it's become survival planning.

But I still don't trust the health care plan. Where are the controls on prices? And people making less than a certain amount get a tax credit or break - where is this money coming from?

roger — August 13, 2012 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Geez - Don't know how I made it through the weekend without my daily overdose of Nails. I had to watch the dude with the goofy glasses on MSNBC (Chris Hayes) to keep my spirits up!!!

Just kidding - glad to see this place back up. I suppose I'll have to read what showed up at the end of last week's forum.

roger — August 13, 2012 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Republican leaders are out to destroy our system of Democracy. If voter suppression isn't enough to convince anyone, what will??

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

(man...I've got to post a Huff article pretty soon before I go completely ape----!

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


People are flat out crazy. Airport Way was backed up by 1545 AGAIN - third weekday in a row. I wasn't paying attention, and got caught in the right lane. I will NOT - repeat NOT - allow someone coming down the road from the right to cut in. Well, there's a bunch of these clowns that like to drive to a little short of the overpass, stop, put their turn signal on, and expect people to let them in. (After sitting in line for 45 minutes? Hah!!!) And then they get all mad - start honking and yelling - when people refuse to play along.

Whatever.

roger — August 13, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I know my 401k took a 50% hit, it's just a good thing I have a pension. Of course, we didn't have anything like a 401k when I started working, there was no such thing so it was preferable to find a job with a pension. Lucky me, I got one. The 401k came in in 1978 but wasn't really available to most people until 1980 when the banks got it all figured out. I guess I could have put more in but then I would have lose twice as much.

Oh, I almost forgot.... Vanwa? you were saying? I embellished?

I love this captcha.. dammixt rocks,

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Too many inconsiderate/incompetent drivers on the road today! Today a woman we were next to at a previous light, blew right through a red without slowing down at the next while a pick-up was turning left. Missed it by a couple of feet! My wife also saw a close call in the rear view mirror which caused a couple of cars to swerve hard. One of those days with traffic I guess.

I still say jet/anti-gravity/ whatever packs are the future!

"... glad to see this place back up."

I appreciate your comments with the FB crowd. Those guys are tough! Please encourage those of sound mind (at least half a mind) to post here as well.

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My, My, My. Very interesting article about academic fraud at North Carolina. And, as the writer notes, let's see how the guy who clobbered Penn State reacts to this.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-08-13/north-carolina-academic-scandal-mark-emmert-ncaa-penn-state?icid=maing-grid7|maing6|dl6|sec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D191985

I'm thinking the days of NCAA athletics getting a bye are just about over.

roger — August 13, 2012 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In Oregon, it's illegal to collect rainwater (in volume) for your own use. The state law says all water is publicly owned.

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/08/13/gary-harrington-of-oregon-jailed-for-illegal-rainwater-reservoir/?icid=maing-grid7|maing6|dl10|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D191866

Pure silliness in this case. If he was damming a creek or river I could see it, but this?

roger — August 13, 2012 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here you go, Nails - your Huff Post article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/13/bristol-palin-paul-ryan_n_1772677.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing6|dl17|sec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D192148

Let us pray. For what - your call.

roger — August 13, 2012 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, just looked at the UNC thing, there's gonna be some heads rolling in NC.

I guess I escaped Oregon before they caught me. I had rain barrels with faucets on them for watering my garden.

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An interesting little argument in favor of splitting the North and South into two nations. Obviously, an East Coast mentality prevails; there's reason for 3 or 4 more separate nations by the reasoning used here.

So who should we appoint Sublime and Magnanimous One for the Peoples Republic of the Northwest?

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/12/should_the_south_secede/

roger — August 13, 2012 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There isn't enough difference between Romney and Obama, to get anyone but the party faithful out to vote. frobert — August 13, 2012 at 5:12 p.m

well, Fro, if you can't see any differences, far be it from me to list them. But for me, there is a world of difference between Obama and that ticket. Romney/Ryan = ticket for disaster. They stand for all I loathe.

Roger/Hawk, there will be much more news coming from many academic sports; this was just the tip. Reading higher ed stuff daily - boggles the mind what goes on in those towers.

luvithere — August 13, 2012 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good to see the forum up and running again. Thanks John!!!

Well, did everyone have a nice break from the forum this weekend??? Lots going on for sure!!!

I could just picture some whose faces were all blue from holding their breath, waiting to respond to comments of last week...having to wait out the temporary shut down...

Just teasin'!!!

..

Regarding rain barrels and the legality of it all...

Since when do any entities think they OWN what comes naturally??? They OWN the mosquitoes, the yellow jacket hornets, the rats, the mice and the possums as well but I don't see them controlling those either. Okay, okay...I've been noticing the little three-wheeler ice cream truck thingies with the "mosquito control" sign on them, and I've noticed the mozzies aren't quite as prevalent thus far...but I think you know what I'm trying to say. When the rain falls...it's going to get collected in rain barrels. What do the people do with the rainwater??? They water their gardens. And where does the rainwater go when you water your garden??? Into the ground. And where does that rainwater go???

The laws on rainwater collection are absolutely ridiculous and a waste of taxpayer dollars, trying to implement such a law and trying to enforce the law.

..

Frobert, your comment to luvithere at 5:12 pm...I agree with you. The dividing line is too blurred to make a decision other than by voting by the party you support and like you said..it'll be the party faithful. No doubt in my mind.

goldenoldie — August 13, 2012 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well..I'm outta here. We're experiencing brown outs. Later gators!

goldenoldie — August 13, 2012 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 13, 2012 at 7:26 p.m

Really, a brown out? Are you home?

Wait a minute, is that a euphemism

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 13, 2012 at 7:23 p.m.

No difference at all, they both are firm believers in crony capitalism, more Americans dying in foreign wars, less civil liberties and indefinite detention or assassination of U.S. citizens. You really need to look past the letter following the name, the actions of Obama are worse than Bush.

frobert — August 13, 2012 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Fro, we beg to differ.
Nite all.

luvithere — August 13, 2012 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nite luvit! As far as energizing the independent electorate, just the issues regarding health care, (to include medicare) & women's rights (to include pro choice, contraception, fair pay) will get out the vote with many in my opinion. It's cool the choices are so distinct, and Romney's choice of Ryan will help the chances of reclaiming the House. Exciting stuff! Positive vibes!

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *So who should we appoint Sublime and Magnanimous One for the Peoples Republic of the Northwest?*

We would need someone who can see the forest for the trees.

Neil Young.

He understands and grasps the complexities of life & liberty, and he couldn't be more American than if he was born here.

Neil Young as President. Imagine that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3T8xr...

nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 10:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The worst part of the lack of forum was the fact that one of my entertaining distractions was not available. Even though I don't agree with some of you, and some of you irritate me (some more than others) I do enjoy our interaction.

Also, I have completely lost my train of thought. I don't know what I was talking about.

So I will look over and find something that catches my eye, and try to explain my position and wait for the reactions of those wishing me lynched.

danabwoodley — August 13, 2012 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.

Sorry bub, he's a cannuck.

hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 11:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye — August 13, 2012 at 8:34 p.m.

Actually, hawkeye...it wasn't a euphemism (smiling). I contacted two other neighbors when our light fixtures flickered, even reduced in illumination...then suddenly getting quite bright. They too witnessed the same issue with their light fixtures. Yes...a brown out. I have a feeling more folks will be seeing a few of these during the extreme heat.

I'll have my dinners fixed and ready before the heat. I'm not taking any chances.

goldenoldie — August 14, 2012 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 14, 2012 at 6:29 a.m.

Brownouts happened all over the area last night - heard some complaints from a couple of friends in Washington County.

I'd like to humbly propose that the brownouts are being manufactured by BPA to gain public support for running those blanking towers down through the middle of the County. That just might explain their deferred route announcement?

roger — August 14, 2012 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#A Nation That’s Losing Its Toolbox

Traditional vocational training in public high schools is gradually declining, stranding thousands of young people who seek training for a craft without going to college. Colleges, for their part, have since 1985 graduated fewer chemical, mechanical, industrial and metallurgical engineers, partly in response to the reduced role of manufacturing, a big employer of them.

The decline started in the 1950s, when manufacturing generated a hefty 28 percent of the national income, or gross domestic product, and employed one-third of the work force. Today, factory output generates just 12 percent of G.D.P. and employs barely 9 percent of the nation’s workers.

Mass layoffs and plant closings have drawn plenty of headlines and public debate over the years, and they still occasionally do. But the damage to skill and craftsmanship — what’s needed to build a complex airliner or a tractor, or for a worker to move up from assembler to machinist to supervisor — went largely unnoticed.

“In an earlier generation, we lost our connection to the land, and now we are losing our connection to the machinery we depend on,” says Michael Hout, a sociologist at the University of California, Berkeley. “People who work with their hands,” he went on, “are doing things today that we call service jobs, in restaurants and laundries, or in medical technology and the like.”

That’s one explanation for the decline in traditional craftsmanship. Lack of interest is another. The big money is in fields like finance. Starting in the 1980s, skill in finance grew in stature, and, as depicted in the news media and the movies, became a more appealing source of income.

By last year, Wall Street traders, bankers and those who deal in real estate generated 21 percent of the national income, double their share in the 1950s. And Warren E. Buffett, the amiable financier, became a homespun folk hero, without the tools and overalls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/business/what-happened-to-the-craftsmanship-spirit-essay.htm

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Could someone tell me what they think Sowell was thinking?

"We could argue about the empirical evidence as to when government pinch-hitting is better or worse. But there is seldom even an argument at all in some quarters, where government intervention follows market failure as the night follows the day."

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/au...

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Paul Ryan’s Fairy-Tale Budget Plan
By David Stockman

Paul D. Ryan is the most articulate and intellectually imposing Republican of the moment, but that doesn’t alter the fact that this earnest congressman from Wisconsin is preaching the same empty conservative sermon.

Thirty years of Republican apostasy — a once grand party’s embrace of the welfare state, the warfare state and the Wall Street-coddling bailout state — have crippled the engines of capitalism and buried us in debt. Mr. Ryan’s sonorous campaign rhetoric about shrinking Big Government and giving tax cuts to “job creators” (read: the top 2 percent) will do nothing to reverse the nation’s economic decline and arrest its fiscal collapse.

Mr. Ryan professes to be a defense hawk, though the true conservatives of modern times — Calvin Coolidge, Herbert C. Hoover, Robert A. Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower, even Gerald R. Ford — would have had no use for the neoconconservative imperialism that the G.O.P. cobbled from policy salons run by Irving Kristol’s ex-Trotskyites three decades ago. These doctrines now saddle our bankrupt nation with a roughly $775 billion “defense” budget in a world where we have no advanced industrial state enemies and have been fired (appropriately) as the global policeman.

Indeed, adjusted for inflation, today’s national security budget is nearly double Eisenhower’s when he left office in 1961 (about $400 billion in today’s dollars) — a level Ike deemed sufficient to contain the very real Soviet nuclear threat in the era just after Sputnik. By contrast, the Romney-Ryan version of shrinking Big Government is to increase our already outlandish warfare-state budget and risk even more spending by saber-rattling at a benighted but irrelevant Iran.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/opinion/paul-ryans-fairy-tale-budget-plan.html

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 7:20 a.m.

Again, not your words, but something I can get behind.

Honestly, we can argue the cause to these trends. But if I may, a hypothosis:

While yes there has been a decline in certain industries, this most likely led to some encouraging young people to go to college and gain credentials for another line of work. This eventually morphed into the idea that for a young person to succeed, they must gain a college degree.

I am just unclear as to what caused the trend saying that you cannot be successful unless you are a college grad? Why not a trade? or farming?

This also ties to the immigration issue. This is the cause of the saying "the immigrants come to do the work Americans won't do". They won't because society has convince them that such work is beneath an American, and that is a measure of failure.

*WARNING, RWTP FOLLOWS*

But somehow to make public assistance a career is a positive thing.

danabwoodley — August 14, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But somehow to make public assistance a career is a positive thing.*

danabwoodley — August 14, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.

????????????

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*This eventually morphed into the idea that for a young person to succeed, they must gain a college degree.*

danabwoodley — August 14, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.

http://marklolson.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/buzz-doesnt-have-a-measurable-roi/sidney-harris-cartoon-a-miracle-occurs-here/

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- *Could someone tell me what they think Sowell was thinking?*

I think he was wondering why he failed to swing at 3 mediocre fastballs crossing the heart of the plate, waiting on a knuckleball that never materialized.

Sowell strikes out again.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But somehow to make public assistance a career is a positive thing.

danabwoodley — August 14, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.*

One could easily argue working for the military is a career in "public assistance". Particularly a lifer.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As some porn star said when endorsing Mitt-"If you're rich, you vote Republican."

In one concise paragraph, Schmitt summarised Hacker's point about the true value and function of welfare state that America's elites have been gradually dismantling since the 1970s:

The achievement of the New Deal and the Great Society was not primarily in providing benefits to the poor and the old, although that's often how both liberals and conservatives talk about it now. What those programmes did best was to reduce risks for individuals by sharing them across society. Whether it was health insurance through Medicare and Medicaid, insurance against poverty in old age through Social Security, federal mortgage insurance that made homeownership possible, or the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation that enabled people to save for the future with confidence, when government absorbed and shared some of the risks of life, individuals were able to take chances and make the most of their potential.

And, in contrast, he noted:

Today, though, the only risks we're sharing are the wrong ones: Wealthy investors are protected by real or implicit guarantees such as "too big to fail," while the risks that should shared, through social insurance, are instead privatised - that is, pushed down the line onto us as individuals.

Just to take one example, voucherising Medicare is one of Ryan's key proposals - forcing seniors to buy private healthcare insurance (assuming that anyone will sell it to them). Ryan's idea is this will make them more responsible consumers. But the US' private healthcare market is the reason we have so many millions uninsured in the first place - as well as contributing to 700,000 medical bankruptcies per year.

mrd — August 14, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd- Great post. This ticket will get people talking!

Even more so than before, the Romney/Ryan ticket has put the House in play.

**Paul Ryan Budget Forces Some Republican Candidates Into Awkward Position**

But with Ryan’s name attached to Romney, it is unlikely that Ryan’s budget will not be associated with Romney's plan, or seen as a liability. Democrats already are likening the Ryan budget to steps outlined by Romney, comparing across-the-board tax cuts, including steep ones for the wealthy, at the expense of investments in health care, education, job training, and other domestic programs.

Republicans are now left to determine how to defend that vision, without weakening support among voters who hold a mostly negative view of the proposal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/13/paul-ryan-budget-republicans-mitt-romney_n_1774095.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Hawk-
Good morning.. I said that you embellished that the poor or those making less than 30K were taking the biggest jump in taxes and those at the top were getting tax relief. When in fact a family of 4 making 30K will pay NO or very little taxes and those making let’s say 40 Million like Romney will pay about 8 million in taxes under the Ryan plan due to the way his income is earned. I agree tax reform is necessary but until it is done we have to live with it..
If your 401K has taken that big a hit I'm very sorry that you don't or haven't gotten better advice. You can manage your account yourself which BTW 64% of Americans in a 401K do or have someone help you. You should have seen a gain over the past 3 years even modest at best or worst by 5%..Things that Affect most people’s 401K is the plan manager, is it a HR person with little or no exp, or do they leave it up to the employee, Plan costs....401K programs are just one way to save and can be a huge benefit if managed properly....That is the key word..

Below is a little snippet from ABC news on the OHCP..Interesting stuff and if implemented the CBO says it cannot be paid for and it cannot be sustained.. Link below..So you really want 4 more years of this President and his policies where he cannot balance the budget, he cannot and has not passed any legislation that has created Jobs, and he has held the US hostage in its credit rating allowing it to fall to unprecedented levels.

http://iwvoices.com/obamacaredebt.pdf

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/health-care-law-mandate-tax-how-much-is-it/

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2012 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


NAIL-

One could easily argue working for the military is a career in "public assistance". Particularly a lifer.

I find that comment "OFFENSIVE" I don't know that My father ever had his hand out while serving 29 years in the Marines.. Nor did he ask for help.. And for my son who recently just got home from AFG while serving in the Army, nor he or any in his Squad did any drugs "recreational or not" you know the may jane type while accepting his monthly BATTLE pay while suppoesdly fighting or Friends the Taliban..Thats what our current VP thinks.. You know the dem next to our president. You probably think they were our friends too.. With your statement I cannot find humor nor wit within it.. Sorry but you have lost me...SFN...

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2012 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- And why are you vilifying public assistance? I honor it. Hand out? What the hell? I suppose it's how you would define it. The military proudly assists our country on many fronts, and I'm proud they do and thank them for it. Pull your head out and take a look around.

vanwa- Romney tax return (singular :) shows he made half of what you claim. It made me question everything else about your post. Interesting source btw.

http://iwvoices.com/about/

Again, and please be specific, what policies has Romney/Ryan proposed that will benefit middle class income families over Obama's current policies? (i.e. taxable income, tax structure, job growth, health care, social issues etc.)

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"If your 401K has taken that big a hit I'm very sorry that you don't or haven't gotten better advice."

The fact millions of people lost literally trillions of dollars as the entire market collapsed in '07, that seems to indicate very, very few guessed correctly. Had you been able to see it, and bet big on it, you would not be here today. You and your millions would be somewhere else living the good life.

The market crash is, to me, an indicator of how far off the folks that want to privatize SS. In their rush to start the flow of trillions to Wall Street have they forgotten the risk or do they choose to ignore it? Whatever, given the choice between a guaranteed return-social security-or a potentially larger return-Wall Street-I'll take the sure bet.

mrd — August 14, 2012 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — August 14, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.

'socialized' healthcare

'socialized' housing assistance and clothing allowance

'socialized' commissary pricing

'socialized' dependent care

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:31 a.m.

I kinda figure Sowell as someone planning on getting on base by balls.

Balls alone......

He uses the 'image' of a heavy hitter (mostly from the '87 Conflict of Visions) and hopes the pitchers......

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Vanwa-

"I said that you embellished that the poor or those making less than 30K were taking the biggest jump in taxes and those at the top were getting tax relief. When in fact a family of 4 making 30K will pay NO or very little taxes and those making let’s say 40 Million like Romney will pay about 8 million in taxes under the Ryan plan due to the way his income is earned".

I see, so Joe Blow that makes $25k and is trying to grow a family is only going to pay 1% more and Mr. Trump is going to get a 12.5% break on his millions. ***That seems fair to you?*** Bring back IKE!

hawkeye — August 14, 2012 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 11:49- I sure miss that *'socialized' commissary pricing*! Big time! Food prices keep escalating while packaged goods become smaller.

Many benefits serve those whose chosen profession is the military/DOD, as well as many pitfalls.

---

Man, some of you guys demand eggshells be placed in your presence when speaking of anything less than military hero worship. Don't mean to offend anyone when offering opinion with this subject.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- *With your statement [One could easily argue working for the military is a career in "public assistance". Particularly a lifer.] I cannot find humor nor wit within it*

None intended.

Not sure what was meant with "SFN". I'm guessing it wasn't "Society for Neuroscience".

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"Man, some of you guys demand eggshells be placed in your presence when speaking of anything less than military hero worship."

step 4 of 14 on the road to facism-----

#4 Supremacy of the Military

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

mrd — August 14, 2012 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal



*While your input is appreciated, I was looking to get the personal opinions of those who post here, not reprinted words of others. danabwoodley — August 9, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.*

Just quoting someone wiser than you or I.

“Some people are blinded by their experience. Soldiers know how important war is. Owners of slaves learn every day how inferior subject peoples are.” ― William Stafford

mr_basil_seal — August 14, 2012 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-
Geez..Here you go ..Typical Joe blow making 30K with 2 kids doesn't pay any taxes. What he does pay he will get back....
And on top of that his health care if he doesn't have any will run about $185-$225 a month for Obamacare.... And he won't have to pay increased taxes for it.. read the link again..This should help .. can't wait to see everyone start complaining about the new tax even though you already have your own health Insurance.. remember 40 mil without health Insurance and now we make it a little more affordable, how many will buy it... remember about 20% of Calrk County drivers don't have auto insurance, if we made it more affordable how many would buy it.. Best estimates are between 10-20% so lets say 20% buy health Insurance that still leaves 32mil without and we still have to pay those bills... It just doesn't pencil out but we will soon see...

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/28/obamacare-upheld-how-health-care-reform-will-affect-your-wallet/

Nail- SFN it's an acronym but it's prob above your pay grade..LOL...If your my age should be easy...

vanwadreamer — August 14, 2012 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys trip me out, man! Heh!

I don't know anything was mentioned tying dope and the military together. Though, I hear there's this book...

DB posted wanting to know why more folks don't enlist and then we have this whole "glamorizing" thing.

I'm not glamorizing, but I will pose a question. In what other job is it perfectly acceptable to tell a person to go kill as many of those persons as they possibly can and not get snuffed themself?

How many combat vets do you know who bask in the glory of being a warrior? How many do you know who've ribbons and chunks of metal stashed in a drawer somewhere, out of sight?

Please, please, I beseech you... don't trivialize military service. Make all the jokes you want about the fat desk sergeants, or whatever, but don't spit in a person's face who's just returned from the horror our government commanded them to be involved in.

Okay? Please?

Drift — August 14, 2012 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oooh --- Oooh --- Oooh, Horshack is dead! RIP Ron

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — The actor best known as the nerdy high-school student Arnold Horshack on "Welcome Back, Kotter," has died in Florida.

Ron Palillo was 63.

Palillo's friend, Karen Poindexter, says Palillo died early Tuesday in Palm Beach Gardens of an apparent heart attack.

Palillo was forever remembered for the character he played from 1975 to 1979 on the ABC sitcom: a nasally Brooklyn teen whose hand shot skyward and who barked out a string of "Ooohs" when a teacher posed a question.

Though his co-star on the show, John Travolta, went on to fame, Palillo struggled to expand beyond his role as Horshack.

Of Horshack, Palillo once told an interviewer from the Birmingham News: "While I loved him, I really loved him, I didn't want to do him forever."

hawkeye — August 14, 2012 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd caused me to freshen up on fascism. Fascinating! Is it me, or does every single facet point/define today's conservative movement? It's like a Republican manifesto!

**The 14 points of Fascism**

**Powerful and Continuing Nationalism**

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

**Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights**

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

**Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause**

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

**Supremacy of the Military**

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

**Rampant Sexism**

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

**Controlled Mass Media**

Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

**Obsession with National Security**

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

**Religion and Government are Intertwined**

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

**Corporate Power is Protected**

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

**Labor Power is Suppressed**

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts**

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

**Obsession with Crime and Punishment**

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

**Rampant Cronyism and Corruption**

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

**Fraudulent Elections**

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal



WOODBURN, OR (KPTV) -
The Archdiocese of Portland called the sex abuse allegations at a Woodburn church tragic and sad when reached for comment by FOX 12 on Tuesday.

Father Angel Perez, the head priest at St. Luke's Catholic Church in Woodburn, is accused of sexually abusing a 12-year-old child. The alleged victim called police at 1:30 a.m. Monday to report the inappropriate contact.

Detectives investigated the complaint and then arrested Father Perez on Monday.

"This is a very tragic and sad situation for everyone involved, and we want to keep all those involved in our prayers, as well as all of the parishioners at St. Luke's in Woodburn," said Bud Bunce, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Portland.

Perez is facing charges of sexual abuse, using a child in a display of sexually explicit conduct and furnishing alcohol to a minor.

Woodburn police said there have been no additional complaints, but detectives are asking anyone with information about this case or any other potential victims to call 503-982-2345.

In 2002, Perez became the first native of Mexico to be ordained in the Archdiocese of Portland. His first assignment came as a deacon at St. Anne's Church in Grants Pass, then as an associate pastor in Corvallis. He also spent time at St. Monica in Coos Bay before becoming pastor at St. Luke's in Woodburn in 2008.

http://www.kptv.com/story/19267797/woodburn-priest-arrest-accused-of-sexually-abusing-a-minor

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, Nails, I gather you're bored and wanted to stir up a fuss?

I pretty much agree with Drift's take. Though why a Squid mentioned a fat Desk Sergeant (we ain't cops!!!) instead of a fat Chief Bosn Mate is beyond me....

roger — August 14, 2012 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Please explain. Drift's over the top dramatic "but don't spit in a person's face" was absurd. Statements such as this tend to trivialize any conversation about the subject. Ridiculous on it's face with zero merit. Why would you agree with that?

I meant no disrespect of anyone in our Armed Forces, and never implied such. Again...eggshells prevail in this department!

I have vilified po po's at times. I could understand taking a hit on that, but this...:))...silliness!

Where's the beef!

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Bill Maher Talks Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin & Medical Marijuana On HuffPost Live (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/bill-maher-talks-paul-rya_n_1777486.html

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Never fear, I am NOT back to stay, I just feel the need to step up and tell the pure ignorant to.....
I don't know which you two are more of, arrogant or ignorant, maybe both!

You self placing pedestal riding midget minded haven't a clue what lives you both might be leading if it weren't for our military.
Not one iota what military personal go through on and off the battlefield.
Unlike you draft dodging pukes that ran to Canada, had a quickie marriage , knocked a girl up or paid for someone to take tests and do homework for them so they could stay in college to stay out of the draft.. they gave up 4 yrs and some more, some, their lives to allow you to have the right to say the ignorant things you do then try to squirm out of by saying you didn't mean any disrespect. GAG
Marking another X for the low informed, low intelligent side.
(disgusted)

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's the beef, nail, (mrd — August 14, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.) "Soldiers and military service are glamorized."

Though in truth, mrd didn't "say it," but quoted it. Still, it hit me wrong. The statement is a crock of poo and -does- spit in the face. ...oh never mind. Sheesh.

Drift — August 14, 2012 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI... don't hold back! Tell us what you -really- think.

Drift — August 14, 2012 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, if I did say what is going through my mind right now it would even burn your well seasoned ears!

Geesh even this captcha hasn't gotten any better!

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-

Had it been an actual, real, honest to goodness, boney-fide, they fired on us first war, it would have been a completely different story in Vietnam. And the ones that lost their lives in that god-forsaken part of the world for absolutely NOTHING, didn't affect our RIGHTS to do a damn thing with the exception of making some class reunions much smaller.

hawkeye — August 14, 2012 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I'm not just talking about those of you that served during that time, go all the way back through history, one way or another our freedoms are in place because of those who fought for them one way or another.

I agree lies were told during Vietnam, thanks to good old boy Johnson, he pumped the guys in with the money from good old BofA kept a un-winnable war going. Kennedy knew that Vietnam was a losing deal for us, knew it was a in country civil war, had plans to pull all out, then..

Afghanistan, I agree Bush had to take care of those who attacked us first. Iraq, only thing I see that we should have been there is cause of the genocide...nothing more, nothing less. But then again we look around and see other countries doing the same and turn our backs on them. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

But no matter what Hawkeye, to disrespect the military is just flat out wrong. I lived through watching not only my brothers but my husband and his brothers and friends come home from Vietnam and the way some treated them. Instead of turning the anger to the powers that be in government that placed our soldiers there they turned it on the troops, which is so very wrong in so many way.

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Never fear, I am NOT back to stay"

great-go away and take your silly chit with you.

"You self placing pedestal riding midget minded haven't a clue what lives you both might be leading if it weren't for our military. Not one iota what military personal go through on and off the battlefield. Unlike you draft dodging pukes that ran to Canada, had a quickie marriage , knocked a girl up or paid for someone to take tests and do homework for them so they could stay in college to stay out of the draft.. they gave up 4 yrs and some more, some, their lives to allow you to have the right to say the ignorant things you do then try to squirm out of by saying you didn't mean any disrespect. GAG Marking another X for the low informed, low intelligent side." (disgusted)

Lots of assumptions there. It seems you have an axe to grind. Chill out, you've actually played into the facist role as noted. Go ahead-elevate the BS of military service, you're acknowledging the point. BTW, I'm not a draft dodging puke-I got drafted, 1969, AFEES in Des Moines, Iowa. As far as giving up 4 years, it was 18 months, and it all sucked. As far as what life I'd lead had it not been for a lottery number such as 14, I don't know. But then, Dee, you sure as hell don't either. So FO. Wanna worship this chit-go ahead, it ain't gonna do you no good. I'm going to assume you're female and other than perhaps having a child tangled up in this type of mess you don't really have a pony in the race. Before you judge, you should experience the real deal and the BS that follows. Might give you a different perspective, but I think not.

mrd — August 14, 2012 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 8:50 p.m.

I support those in the military and those that have served. I have nothing against them at all. You are 100% right about Johnson, he's the one that should have been shot, not Kennedy. It was ALL about the money. I can't comment on Bush II except to say he was soooo bad for this country, he was just doing what his daddy wanted him to do.

I had a lot of friends go to Vietnam and never come back or came back in pieces, it's too sad to dwell on.

I wasn't drafted, I was one of the lucky ones but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have joined up had it been a "real war".

hawkeye — August 14, 2012 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — August 14, 2012 at 9:04 p.m

Number 14, huh. That sucks. I was in the same one, 69/70 #361. I guess being born on Christmas finally paid off for once.

hawkeye — August 14, 2012 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- Thanks for your opinion. As you noticed I re-posted "glamorized" along with other conservative manifesto talking points. When I or many post an article/opinion piece, said article doesn't always reflect individual thinking although many times does. At least with me. It is what it is. Sometimes food for thought. You seemed to have run with the spit pretty quick. Glamorized in this case had nothing to do with a soldiers individual thought process of being "glamorized". It had to do with societal/government agenda perception. I'd say this to ELISI but she wouldn't understand. As you know it's always good to lend context.

I worked side by side with Soldiers/Airmen/(even a few squids:) a good part of my life and have nothing but respect, for the most part, (always one or two total screw ups/bad guys, just like in civilian life) for them. Many friends still active. Many more working overseas at military installations.

---

ELISI- Great to read your unabashed misinformed vitriol again. I always loved your posts till a 19 year old girl chased you off :). I see you still represent the Assembly of God/Falwell/Born Again movement to a .. Tea. Your comments are .. pure gold.

*say the ignorant things you do then try to squirm out of by saying you didn't mean any disrespect*

Step it up for once and source what was said that aroused so much .. anger within you. Not the voices in your head, but in print so they can be responded to in kind.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd, first off I am NOT Dee.

Second, as I said, before, my dad, 4 brothers, husband, his 2 brothers, his dad, my daughter have served and soon my son.
So mr FO I don't worship the military I just have respect for them. Yes I am proud to say I come from a military family.
Direct your anger to where it should go to the powers that run this country. PF

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


....dee..?

DeeLittle — August 14, 2012 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ELISE**

actually the dolt flatters me.

DeeLittle — August 14, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, go make like Linus with your blanket and thumb in the corner.

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee :)

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

So there is a way to rationalize that military service is "public assistance"? While I will not claim that everyone to have put on a uniform has a work ethic that deems reciept of overtime pay, I will say it isn't an equal comparison.

We in the military go out to do some odd work. We go to combat areas where we are exposed to enemy fire (some more than others, but no where in Afghanistan is immune to the exposure). Some go to areas where not exposed to fire, but support the ones who are. Sometimes we get called to locations for disaster relief.

When we aren't engaged in any of these activities, we are preparing to do them. We are training. We make sure we know how to perform the tasks we need to when our time in the fire comes.

Public assistance, in theory, is a temporary measure that helps a person until they are in a position to help themselves. There are many who are able to find that job, and pick themselves up relatively quickly. Others take a little longer. Some never do. And honestly, they are most likely not even putting forth the effort.

While it is true that public monies pay our salaries, to say it is public assistance is ludicrous. That implies we don't earn our pay. That is what I take exception to.

danabwoodley — August 14, 2012 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd-*Before you judge, you should experience the real deal and the BS that follows. Might give you a different perspective, but I think not.*

ELISI always have had a strong bark. If she was actually this passionate she would have joined up, served in some capacity, and would have let nothing stand in her way. Instead she's content to cheap shot others, while flying her faux flag off the backs of others who contributed. It's what this character does.

---

Gonna give in a little on my age. I don't like to give too much personal info due to immature uninformed agenda driven posters such as this ELISI avatar making insults. Insults have diminished much with the absence of :ELISI", and the infrequent posting of a couple of others.

The draft/war ended as I approached 18. I lost a couple of acquaintances/friends myself. (thanks for serving btw) All options were on the table, but if called I would have reluctantly gone. (If my reluctance to serve in Vietnam makes me unpatriotic with the ELISI mindset so be it) It was a F'ed up war fought for all the wrong reasons, much like Iraq and I'm glad to have missed it. I do respect those who went, served and survived.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


deelittle @ 9:30- Get your identities screwed up a bit??? :))

---

ELISI-*nailingit, go make like Linus with your blanket and thumb in the corner.*

Smart and witty as ever! Why don't you read your bible for awhile and ponder the meaning of the Gospel for Christ's sake. You tend to pull folks down in the muck & mire which you so readily embrace.

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*ELISI always have had a strong bark. If she was actually this passionate she would have joined up, served in some capacity, and would have let nothing stand in her way.*

Hmm yeah, turned 18 in Dec of 1969, still in high school.
Married June of 1970, so you tell me when I had the time to "join"

nailingit, you have no idea what I have done in all the years since for our troops, none what so ever. That's ok tho, you can stand there with egg all over your face, just makes me giggle even more.

*Insults have diminished much with the absence of :ELISI", and the infrequent posting of a couple of others.*

Seems to me those insults you talk of just keep flying around come from you.
Insults towards those who have and are serving in the military,
anyone who believes in Christ, anyone who doesn't agree with you or your political thinking.

One thing I do agree with you on is how messed up Vietnam was.

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 10:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DBW- I was speaking about those who have professions that assist the public. i.e. Police, Firefighters, School Teachers etc. You have the same mindset as vanwa in this matter. To review,

*One could easily argue working for the military is a career in "public assistance". Particularly a lifer.*

*I honor it. Hand out? What the hell? I suppose it's how you would define it. The military proudly assists our country on many fronts, and I'm proud they do and thank them for it.*

Just bored and had a need not to understand?

I'm well aware of what soldiers do. My point was that military service in this day & age is a chosen profession working for the public at large. Some professions are more dangerous than others. It depends on what profession one chooses. One could argue cops in tough areas, firefighters, in some cases teachers in tough inner city areas put their life on the line every day. That's all.

Are you on duty at the moment? Drift brought up you possibly wasting our tax payer dollars a couple of weeks ago if you are while posting on government equipment. I referenced you as a possible professional poster when you stated you work 24/7 365 days a year.

Buck up soldier! Make us proud to be an American! :)

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OOoooo there goes a drive-by insult...

*Smart and witty as ever! Why don't you read your bible for awhile and ponder the meaning of the Gospel for Christ's sake. You tend to pull folks down in the muck & mire which you so readily embrace.*

Speaking about yourself there are ya?

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 10:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Early up for me tomorrow, new carpet gets installed..

Good night peeps.

See ya around..

ELISI — August 14, 2012 at 10:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Hmm yeah, turned 18 in Dec of 1969, still in high school. Married June of 1970, so you tell me when I had the time to "join"* You from Boise by any chance???

All about choices! You had time in 69. Quite the cop out! Sounds like you thought more of companionship than service. A decision you made instead of serving, wasn't it? That's all well and good. No need to judge and presuppose others for doing the same/other.

You don't even begin to pass the smell test with your statements. Quite the character!

Open your bible up babe, you need a lesson in civility and truth telling.

If it'll help I'll direct you to a passage. :)

nailingit — August 14, 2012 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


the military consists of the best this country can produce. to be a young citizen, barely out of high school, and decide to join up knowing death is a real consequence, shows a moral courage that few in this country possess. (that's my answer to your question, dana).

they are professional, disciplined, razor-sharp and respected worldwide, begrudgingly by flabby socialists and honestly by all the people they've freed and protected.

when some place in the world goes to hell, who does the world look towards to help? russia? china? GERMANY?

says it all.

dee aka ELISE

> giggle

p.s.
"Insults have diminished much with the absence of :ELISI", and the infrequent posting of a couple of others." assume this is nail...took it from a post by elise. **THANK YOU, NAIL.** you've reminded me that i need to post more *frequently*.

DeeLittle — August 14, 2012 at 11:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**GOP pros fret over Paul Ryan**

You’ve heard them on television and read them on POLITICO — cheerful, defiant statements from Republican political professionals about Mitt Romney’s bold masterstroke in tapping Paul Ryan as his running mate, and turning the 2012 presidential race into a serious, far-reaching debate about budgets and the nation’s future.

Don’t buy it.

Away from the cameras, and with all the usual assurances that people aren’t being quoted by name, there is an unmistakable consensus among Republican operatives in Washington: Romney has taken a risk with Ryan that has only a modest chance of going right — and a huge chance of going horribly wrong.

In more than three dozen interviews with Republican strategists and campaign operatives — old hands and rising next-generation conservatives alike — the most common reactions to Ryan ranged from gnawing apprehension to hair-on-fire anger that Romney has practically ceded the election.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79697.html#ixzz23azKJi3u

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 12:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Congress Approval Rating Hits All-Time Low In Gallup Poll**

Just one in 10 Americans approves of the job Congress is doing, according to a Gallup poll released Tuesday, tying the branch's lowest approval rating in 38 years. Congress originally hit the 10 percent mark in February, before bouncing back several points.

The approval rate for Congress hasn't passed 20 percent in more than a year, according to Gallup, and is far lower than the personal approval ratings for most members of Congress. Prior to 2007, it sank below 20 percent only twice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/congress-approval-rating-all-time-low-gallup-poll_n_1777207.html

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 12:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice back pedal Nail. If you look at the post in question, and previous posts, look at them in context, you conferred a meaning different from what you just explained.

And as far as whether or not I am on duty, or using government equipment, I addressed that previously as well.

*Buck up soldier!*

While I appreciate the sentiment you seem to be attempting to convey, I am slightly different from many others in uniform. I am able to generate my own motivation in my work. I have my own personal reasons that I joined, and continue to serve (they have evolved over the years). Truth be told, part of my job (by virtue of rank and position) is to help motivate others. And I am not sure that "Buck Up, is a part of the current vernacular.

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 12:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nice back pedal Nail. If you look at the post in question, and previous posts, look at them in context, you conferred a meaning different from what you just explained.*

Really DBW. Please lend some clarity to your statement with previous posts "in context" and explain your reasoning. I'm not accustomed to such accusations, at least not in the real world. Do you employ this type of tactic in "motivating" people"?

*And as far as whether or not I am on duty, or using government equipment, I addressed that previously as well.*

So then you're screwing off while "on duty"? Is this correct?

*While I appreciate the sentiment you seem to be attempting to convey, I am slightly different from many others in uniform.*

No argument with that!

*I am able to generate my own motivation in my work.*

Posting to anonymous forums?

*I have my own personal reasons that I joined, and continue to serve (they have evolved over the years).*

Is this part of your evolution?

*Truth be told, part of my job (by virtue of rank and position) is to help motivate others.*

Hows that going for you?

*And I am not sure that "Buck Up, is a part of the current vernacular.*

It's better than using another expression that comes to mind. If you're on duty wasting military/taxpayer time posting that is. Are you currently on duty? Wait a sec. I'll view your previous posts that might address this.

**Yes I am using a Government computer on a Government network to post here. This is legal.

DoD issued a policy allowing for limited personal use of these systems. Limited in that certain guidelines must be followed.*

*No access to restricted sites (most obvious being pornography, but other sites as well)*

*Not to interfere with regular duties (if your personal use creates an inability to complete your duties, that is a problem)*

*Not you use a government system for a venture meant to turn a profit. (I can correspond to find a home I need to rent so my family has a place to live, but not to rent out my home to use it as investment property)*

*There are more rules involving minutiae, but I don't want to bore you. These are the main points that get most violators in trouble.
August 6, 2012 at 9:34 p.m.**

WOW! What about use of time? Given your extreme distaste for any type of fraud waste and abuse, how can you justify this? Pecking away as a culture warrior on military time, is this part of your "evolution"?

You're bringing back memories DBW. Not to worry, I'm sure someone will pick up your slack. Sigh......

As far as my request that you back up your allegations, feel free to forget about it. I don't want to be complicit with fraud waste and abuse...

Now buck up soldier! Make America proud!

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 1:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

I for one will never disparage anyone for their choice to not serve. I know many like to use the constitution contradictorily depending on how they view things, but I do believe that donning the uniform is a 1st ammendment issue. Make your own choice, for whatever your reasons.

Dee-

Some of the adjectives you use for service members are quite succinct. I am flattered that you see us that way. Unfortunately I don't see they can all be applied to everyone of us (I am sure I fall short in at least one of them)

At times in history, there was a sudden need for more people to serve. Because of that, we have fewer that fit your discription are among the new hires. Standards are adjusted to allow more to qualify to serve.

I say this to demonstrate that not all of us are just blindly devoted to our comrades. We have bad apples. We have people who should not have been allowed to join in the first place. These are the ones that lead to news articles that some Americans use to convict us all.

I would also like to reassure you all, some of us are working as best we can to find these people who would disgrace our profession, and get them out of our ranks. I do hit resistance. It sometimes takes me a while. But I would prefer to have one, good quality, honorable soldier at my side, then a dozen, half witted, warm bodies that found a hole to slide through.

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 1:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So nail believes I am being negligent in my duties posting here. I am somehow not getting my work done.

OK, I will make sure I let the boss know so it will reflect in my evaluation report. After all, nail knows exactly what my duties are and what my calendar looks like every single day.

I am glad to see there is a new watchdog looking out for the public interest. (remind to send you a genuine sample for testing)

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 1:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**DANA**

just wondering...what do you think of *Military Strategy: Principles, Practices, and Historical Perspectives*?

been thinking of reading it, over 500 pgs, want to know it's worth the time.

DeeLittle — August 15, 2012 at 4:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I would also like to reassure you all, some of us are working as best we can to find these people who would disgrace our profession, and get them out of our ranks. I do hit resistance. It sometimes takes me a while. But I would prefer to have one, good quality, honorable soldier at my side, then a dozen, half witted, warm bodies that found a hole to slide through." --- danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 1:46 a.m.

Care to clarify your meaning? FYI, one of my early retired jobs was working as a contractor processing enlistment waiver packets up for approval. I kept seeing crap I didn't like; would tell the BC that, as a retired 1SG and former PSG, I couldn't in good conscience help allow people like this into the Army. His response - That those who get to make the decisions said we're to do it - That if I couldn't handle the rules, I needed to find other employment. And he was right. So I left that job.

My problem with what you say is that it sounds as though there's a movement within the ranks to remove people who don't fit a certain ideal. Maybe I'm misreading what you meant and applying my own experiences. I'm one of those people who said I joined because I believed the military helped protect the right of the citizens to say and believe whatever we want, among other things. But sometime around the mid '90s I started running into people who believed the country was on the wrong moral track - that they had a higher calling to serve that The Constitution - Onward Christian Soldiers, and all that crap.

roger — August 15, 2012 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Surprise, surprise, surprise!!!! Nice way to start the day as I'm reading the forum...

Welcome Back ELISI. I wish you'd stay around. The forum needs to have people sharing in discussion from BOTH sides...meaning male AND FEMALE!!! Guess it was getting pretty stagnant in here with all this testosterone flying around, huh??? Time for us (You, me and Dee...hey, it rhymes) to be the den mothers, ya think??? Can you imagine how their lives are away from the forum??? Geez, Louise!!!

(yes, men of the forum...I'm teasing you)

...

Danabwoodley, rest assured...not all of us on the forum think the same as the select few whose patriotism in our nation is in question (not naming names, either). I won't make judgment regarding the time you share in discussion with us as your time is YOUR time. Who knows how many are utilizing their boss's company system to post the drivel they post??? Regardless...you stated that one of your jobs is to "motivate others." Well sir...your well-thought, well-prepared posts are an inspiration with the perspective you share. I guess I could say...you have motivated me to return to the forum...to speak my mind and to occasionally share in the discussion, always learning.

I thank you.

..

Nailingit...just a piece of friendly advice from one forum dweller to another. You can read and try to understand what it is I speak and understand that I speak from the heart as I do actually enjoy your discussions whether we agree or disagree...when the insults don't fly...or you can utilize what I say to go on a personal attack directed towards me through your uncanny wit with verbiage (much like a news editor does with politicians...you sure you weren't once an editor for a newspaper or news reporting station???).

You have made it perfectly clear to me in the past when I was out of line by utilizing the anger and frustration-filled comments leaning towards insult... which I took your statements to heart and have done my best to clean up what I say and how I say it. Might I suggest you heed your own advice? It's no offense intended...just making my own observation.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


August 14, 2012 at 9:09 p.m.

Oooh, Hawkeye...poor choice of words in this post of yours. NO president deserves to be assassinated at any time, anywhere. If laws were broken...if the president has knowingly and willingly abused his power...

there are laws to deal with this.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


CLARIFICATION - -

Nailingit, when I stated "anger and frustration-filled comments leaning towards insult...," I was referring to *MY* comments I've made in the past in that statement.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger-

The people in uniform I refer to are ones that a) recieved a waiver for there history of legal problems, but continue such activity after joining, or b) lied about it to avoid the waiver process (rare but it happens), or c) decided that they changed their mind, and the only way to get out without going AWOL is to behave badly until they are kicked out.

This last category irks me most. These people do get penalized (restriction, extra duty, forfeiture of a certain portion of pay), but they never get to realize any long term consequences. They are punished Non Judicial (no admission of guilt, not technically convicted so no record, nothing visible outside of the military), and they get discharged under General, and can later have it recategorized to Honorable.

I feel the pain you talk about in recruiting world. I was a recruiter. I had some come to me that when I looked at their file and did not want to process it. But I was reminded that I cannot make the determination to disqualify anyone, I am obligated to send it forward for others to determine. (One exception, if the person shows up on a sex offender search, I can kick them out of the office). I did make it a point that none of these people selected the same MOS I have though.

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie-

Thank you.

I would like to say, however, that I will not question anyones patriotism, unless they make any statement that is outright treasonous. I am sure that everyone, in their own twisted little mind, is thinking of the greater good of the nation.

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***JOHN HILL***

can't load posts in fb side. is there more trouble w/a vendor? or is it just my connection....

i've given up waiting for them to load. 1st one appears, and nothing else no matter how long i wait.

DeeLittle — August 15, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Danabwoodley...I only hope you are correct in your assumption regarding what you are sure everyone "in their own twisted little mind" is thinking.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


can anybody tell me why obama is buying hundreds of thousands of hollow-point bullets for the national weather service, the social security administration, and noaa...?

hollowpoints aren't even allowed in theaters of war, but he's buying them for HERE.

maybe i shouldn't have turned off the radio when glenn beck was on....

DeeLittle — August 15, 2012 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**GOLDIE**

you may be onto something there.

didn't oswald think he was acting for the country's greater good...? and j.w. booth..?

DeeLittle — August 15, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle, just like you...I have many, many questions about what is going on. Maybe if Glenn Beck hadn't clowned around on his shows, people would have taken him a bit more seriously...and they just might have listened to his messages. Maybe if he hadn't learned what he has learned thus far, he wouldn't sound as if he's headed for the looney bins. As far as years passed when I did watch him occasionally, I was able to zone out his misfit dialogue and heard the underlying messages...some which to this day I see as a bit off the deep end, although some of those messages from that deep end...they're eerily close to just what is happening today or they have come true. Unfortunate for some, they don't want to hear the carnival clown antics...they just want the facts so they've already been their own judge and jury regarding the guy. And maybe, just maybe...he's a messenger for someone who's trying to get the word out...albeit too late for many.

Yep, I have far too many questions about happenings like you say...why hollow points for the weatherman, for NOAA and for the Social Security Administration??? Other questions...where were all those brand spankin' new army tanks and other military vehicles on a train headed east along the Columbia River Gorge back in May? Where were they coming from and where are they going? Why must there be unmanned aircraft monitoring us? Why are there cameras on all the intersections and along all the freeways? Why are the people becoming so dependent of the government for just about everything in their lives? Why are the news agencies making a big deal about Reverend Jesse Jackson and bipolar disorder? Oh yeah...I've got too many questions running through my mind...and these were only a few.

Then there are the questions I keep to myself...hoping some day the questions will be answered.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle @11:21 am...

THAT, my dear...gave me a freakish chill which ran up and down my spine just now. As danabwoodley pointed out..."their own twisted little minds."

Ooh, ew...oooooh! Dang that chill!!! It's makin' me ill.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee and Golden,

Last I heard it was 750 million rounds plus..Army solicited for riot gear earmarked to be used for domestic riots.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm

ELISI — August 15, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 7:08 a.m.

As for a President being assassinated, Johnson was VP at that time and my thought was if ANYBODY had to get shot it should have been him.

Wonder what the world would be like now if Kennedy had not have gotten shot.

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 11:40 a.m

I looked up your post about DHS buying thousands of hollowpoint rounds but I couldn't find ONE credible story. They were all offshoots of one or two stories from some radical paper in Arizona on April 12th. Not even an article from FAUX (not the news).

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye --- Scroll down to 3rd story. This is a good site to keep on "speed dial".

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

langenthal — August 15, 2012 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting argument about Israel going on over at the Opinions side of The Columbian. The LTTE writer is pro-Palestinian, but gets really wild with some of his comments.

Letter: Israel's hostility too often pardoned

roger — August 15, 2012 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Man, you can't make this stuff up!**

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan has been one of the harshest critics of President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan. But months after Congress approved the nearly $800 billion package, the Wisconsin lawmaker was trying to steer money under the program to companies in his home state.

Rep. Ryan wrote letters in 2009 to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis seeking stimulus grant money for two Wisconsin energy conservation companies. One of them, the nonprofit Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp., later received $20.3 million from the Energy Department to help homes and businesses improve energy efficiency, according to federal records.

In a letter to Chu in December 2009, Ryan said the stimulus money would help his state create thousands of new jobs, save energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. That contrasted with his public statements denigrating the stimulus program as a "wasteful spending spree." It also conflicts with his larger federal budget proposal, which would slash Energy Department programs aimed at creating green jobs.

Ryan's office says his budget plan "calls for getting Washington out of the business of picking winners and losers in the economy — and that includes our energy sector."

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I agree that the traffic is getting worse and I know the reason. Lets start with the parents who drive their children all around. You know the ones I'm talking about. They have that harried parent look, kinda like they are frazzled. They make mistakes and don't plan ahead and when the little tyke ask what's wrong, mom or dad says it's the other drivers fault.

When the child is old enough to get a permit this attitude is carried forward. When they take the behind the wheel test the tester gives them too much slack. I have seen this. When I took my test, way back when, I nearly failed for doing something that the new testers find acceptable.

As the new driver starts out they see it more and more so it must be right, eh. I would like to know if they offer defensive driving courses anymore. I don't mean just old drivers ed but courses that the new drivers can take to lower their insurance rates. Best money my folks ever invested in my education in drivers ed. I have many occasions that the course taught and I used those.

I have had just two accidents (with other vehicles) that I couldn't avoid. One with a drunk and one with a druggie.

When you put an idiot behind the wheel they think they are invisible and think that everyone else should bow to them.

At this point in time I believe that the answer is to make every fine from illegal cell phone use to reckless driving start at a $1000.00 and go up from there with every new ticket. Then we might be able to bring some sanity back to driving. As it stands right now we don't have chance in hell of getting better drivers out there.

Before anyone jumps up and say says driving is a right, you are wrong. It still is a privilege and if you mess up you lose it. Or worse you can die. Or worse yet kill someone else.

JohnCasey — August 15, 2012 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Right on, John

My Grandson told me the other day that it's illegal to drive around a speed bump in a parking lot. He said you could get a ticket for that. I have two problems with that one. 1. Isn't a parking lot private property? and B. Why?

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MRD-

The market was 14000 in 08 and is now 13108. If properly invested you actually should be slighty ahead now... That means if everything was equal and you continued to contribute in down years your money buys more of the same shares so you should come out with more shares and about the same price as 08.....

As for SS, it's to run out in 2034-36 at it's current payout pace. This current administration has depleted the acount so that at it's current pace those who are to rely on it may have a surprise come that day. If I could have had 6.2% of my income every year put in my investments I could be retired about now making as much as I am now...

Nail- No expalantion can reverse what you have already said.. I showed my son what you wrote. He had two words.. I'm sure you can guess what those were unless you haven't figured out what SFN is yet... Yes he choose to go in at age 24 as he saw the handwriting on the wall in his profession prior to joing. He was fortunate not to be wounded or killed in action, although he saw enough of that..

vanwadreamer — August 15, 2012 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nail- No expalantion can reverse what you have already said..*

As long as I've posted here, with the many favorable comments I've made regarding the military, you're just being ignorant vanwa. It is what it is. Believe what you will. Doesn't matter. Go ahead and keep it up if you will, if that's what floats your boat. I hope your kid is able to grasp conversation a bit better that his dad.

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't post sport's stuff too often but this is more than cool!!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/au...

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**'Machine Gun Social' Planned By Asheville Tea Party**

According to the event's flyer, attendees can give $25 for a 30-round magazine on a 9mm submachine gun of their choice -- an HK MP5, an Israeli UZI or a Swedish I. Guests can spend $35 for 30 rounds on an AK47, while the most ambitious of Tea Party patriots can drop $50 for 30 rounds on an M16.

And if you work up an appetite after all the shooting, don't worry: Lunch and drinks are included. No word on whether the drinks will be non-alcoholic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/machine-gun-social-asheville-tea-party_n_1783475.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

You sort of left out that this price is to shoot the rounds off at the range.

What a waste of money. M16 is lame. 30 rounds in an Uzi is a blink of an eye (almost, anyhow). Now, the AK is cool; I might pony up $10-15. But these guys are making a killing - average cost of about $250 per 1000 rounds is 25 cents per; that 30 round clip is costing the sponsors a bit over $7. Only people who'd pay $35 are the poser wannabes.

roger — August 15, 2012 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.

Well my friend, I can't take credit for the original statement regarding the hollow points provided to certain entities. I was merely reacting to DeeLittle's comment prior to mine.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- What I find more than interesting is the continuous pairing (seems to be coming from the right) of automatic weapons and local/national politics. No harm with well rounded sane people. But......

btw you sparked my interest with the Israeli/Palestinian thing on FB. Pretty wild!

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m_dT0...

goldenoldie- *Then there are the questions I keep to myself...hoping some day the questions will be answered.*

I've been known at times to channel the Great Carnac. Feel free for some A & Q!

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — August 15, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.

Much of what I see is from people who think rules are for others to follow - not them. And the ones that think their time is more valuable than anyone else's - now move over and let me in.

roger — August 15, 2012 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...if you are curious as to the credibility of the purchase of ammunition by the SSA, you can find the request on the Federal Business Opportunities website.

..

Nail...you brought back some haunting memories, lol. Thanks for the offer but I'd rather keep those questions I speak of to myself.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Creepy...

My Captcha had the numbers "64 516"... I googled them...found an interesting UN report prepared by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights...and it involved Israel.

Interesting....

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


After watching The Daily Show last night, where Jon Stewart's intro was to document Paul Ryan's record of voting for much of what's contributed to the current deficit, I had to find something.

Here you go. Geez, this election is stinking worse than ever, what with these sleazy, sanctimonious SOBs.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79688.html

But is our Pres any better? The timing of the stopping violence against women campaign is a might bit convenient. A serious problem and the current legislation is about to expire, but that TV commercial comes across more as a staged affair to win votes.

roger — August 15, 2012 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye --- I am reposting from 1:06 pm today:

Scroll down to 3rd story. This is a good site to keep on "speed dial".

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

You have to scroll further but here is the statement clarifying that it was a clerical error. There is more info if you follow other links on the site. You can listen to Buster Wilson too. He's a real piece of work.

Buster Wilson Repeats False Claim that the National Weather Service is Buying Ammunition
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wed, 08/15/2012 - 11:15am

Another day, another Buster Wilson conspiracy, as the American Family Association talk show host yesterday on AFA Today said that National Weather Service (NWS) is purchasing ammunition as part of the grand conspiracy Wilson has put together about how the Obama administration is going to stage a coup:

Unfortunately for Wilson, the NWS is not purchasing the ammunition:

NOAA says there was a “clerical error” in the FedBizOpps announcement stating the NWS required ammunition. The solicitation actually originated from the “NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement” not the National Weather Service. …

Due to a clerical error in the federal business vendor process, a solicitation for ammunition and targets for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement mistakenly identified NOAA’s National Weather Service as the requesting office. The error is being fixed and will soon appear correctly in the electronic federal bidding system. The ammunition is standard issue for many law enforcement agencies and it will be used by 63 NOAA enforcement agents in their twice annual target qualifications and training.

langenthal — August 15, 2012 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 8:08 a.m.

Maybe we're often our own worst enemy, when it comes to discipline?

1992 - I'm on an IG tour in Korea. Two soldiers drunk, getting on the shuttle bus. One male, one female. From different units. The male pushes past the female. She punches him in the back, and cusses him out. He turns and pops her, busting her jaw. The male is in my office later, complaining he got an Art 15 and she got nothing. I explained two different commanders - different punishments possible. He says his Cdr told him the Art 15 was because he had no business hitting a female. This caught my interest. Sent him to JAG, and then went to satisfy my own curiosity. His commander confirmed the story. The female's commander said he did nothing because she'd already suffered enough. Bottom line - both commanders acted on their own prejudices, and failed to connect on the real issue of maintaining order and discipline among all soldiers, no matter the gender. Turned it over to my boss so he could do some OPD.

1995 - I'm a Det SGT at FLW. One of my soldiers gets busted by the MPs for waving a loaded pistol around in the club parking lot after closing. (I hated those after midnight calls from the MP station!) Next day, I've got him before our Cdr, recommending separation proceedings. Next thing I know, CSM is on the phone, saying bring the soldier's counseling packet to his office. He reviews, says this stuff is all about paying bills on time - where's the record for this incident and a proposed rehab plan? It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. I'm thinking, "You stupid SOB - you really think this is a rehab offense?"

1999 - I'm a GO level EOA. A fellow MSG comes in complaining that our CofS is being too harsh, pushing a Chap 14 Dishonorable for one of her soldiers. I do some checking. He got caught by his OIC surfing porn sites on his work computer. Got a slap on the wrist - extra duty for a couple of weeks, and a direct order to never do that again. About a month later, the OIC goes to the office on a Saturday and catches the guy doing the same thing. Hauls him before the Co Cdr, who recommends Field Grade - hence to the Chief. The Chief says screw that - Chap 14 Dishonorable on top of getting busted. Sent MSG to JAG also, then went to see the Chief. Very simple explanation - we have hundreds of soldiers in our Command who follow the rules, serve honorably, and receive certain benefits on getting out. Why should this guy get the same bennies? Fine by me - passed the word to a few NCOs, and within a few days the soldiers were happily repeating the Chief's words.

So, while I don't doubt things got worse after 9/11 when we got waiver happy, the issue is more than that the wrong people got in. The issue is just as much that too many in leadership positions have a skewed idea of fairness that gets in the way of leadership and maintaining good order and discipline, etc.

roger — August 15, 2012 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NOAA says there was a “clerical error” in the FedBizOpps announcement stating the NWS required ammunition. The solicitation actually originated from the “NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement” not the National Weather Service.

Hawkeye --- Continued from 7:09. This is the rest of the story from rightwingwatch.org:

Due to a clerical error in the federal business vendor process, a solicitation for ammunition and targets for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement mistakenly identified NOAA’s National Weather Service as the requesting office. The error is being fixed and will soon appear correctly in the electronic federal bidding system. The ammunition is standard issue for many law enforcement agencies and it will be used by 63 NOAA enforcement agents in their twice annual target qualifications and training.

langenthal — August 15, 2012 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — August 15, 2012 at 7:25 p.m.

Yea, I got that. I just can't find any "reliable" info on ANYBODY in the government buying a very large amount of ammo other than the normal purchases for normal uses. Even this story in the "Examiner" seems a little weak. Of course nobody realizes the Department of Homeland Security encompasses a huge amount of different departments that include The Coast Guard, INS, TSA, ICE, and several more.

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Here you go, Nails. I ran across this album about '69; never heard of Zappa until then. Couldn't believe someone in the US was doing this kind of stuff in '66; outside of Dylan and maybe Mitch Ryder, everything I heard back East was pretty much pop or soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI

roger — August 15, 2012 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger-

I know what you are saying. I have seen way too many cases like these. I have made recommendations to my leaders regarding disposition of cases, and the looks they give me make me want to run to a mirror because I am certain something must be growing out of my forehead.

There are some things that are releatively uniform across the board. It is common for a DUI to bring on a field grade 15. (Unless you are charged off post, then a civilian court will convict you, and the military can't because that would violate the double jeopardy.) Why though? I propose (not an expert opinion, but my idea) that we just court martial them to the fullest extent.

Certain behaviors are criminal whether civil law or UCMJ. But the way they are handled UCMJ means you have no record to follow you. I have stated before, but will explain again for those here who do not know some rules about UCMJ:

Article 15 is non judicial punishment (meaning no judge or court involved). A member can refuse the 15 and demand to go to court martial, thought his rarely happens because the accused is guilty and they know it. The 15 can produce restriction (limited movement but not in jail), extra duty (extended work hours for the offender), confinement (rarely used, but authorized at certain levels), forfeiture of a portion of pay (fine), and reduction in rank.
What is not included is: an admission of guilt (you get punished but no record of admission/determination of guilt of offense), no court record (your file can follow you through your career, but once you are out, there is no record outside of service of the offense)

For some things, a 15 works, and is appropriate. I do feel that it is used too often for things that should go to court.
But, I don't get paid enough to make these decisions. I can only recommend, and be berated for going "over the top"

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I just can't find any "reliable" info on ANYBODY in the government buying a very large amount of ammo other than the normal purchases for normal uses."

hawkeye @7:45 pm....

So Hawk...can you explain to me why the Social Security Administration needs to acquire 174,000 rounds of ammunition? Since the last time I was in their office years back, I don't remember armed office personnel waiting on the potential retirees or those seeking disability benefits.

..

Langenthal, I saw the same post ON the FBO website regarding the error for NOAA's request...but there wasn't one for the Social Security Administration.

goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 15, 2012 at 9:04 p.m

Sorry GO, where was that posted again?

hawkeye — August 15, 2012 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone else see the article (sorry, don't remember where) stating that residents in CA, not near an installation, were witnessing rail movements of military equipment? Many were speculating movement for initiation of martial law.

Quite possible that these ammunition purchaces are related? Afterall, why else would these government agencies, not otherwise involved in direct action, be stocking up.

And no, I do not have any inside information on this. It concerns me as well.

*(this is intended as sarcasm, not to be confused with an actual theory or serious interpretation of recent events)*

danabwoodley — August 15, 2012 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Thanks for sharing a Zappa moment! One of the most underrated guitar/musicians of our time. Early stuff! I was fortunate to have been inundated with West Coast music at the time. Jefferson Airplane, Blue Cheer etc. Still my favorite "easy listening". :)

Something from the East Coast in your neck of the woods in the same time zone, remember The Fugs? Over the top satirical anti-war NY band beloved from my childhood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW9cCW...

captcha words JUSTITIAM, ettrus,... Now that could have meaning!

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal- Thanks for flushing out the latest conspiracy theory from the right. It's amazing what some buy into. Right Wing carnival barkers always ramp it up the closer we get to an election time.

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


why would hollowpoints be used for target practice?

DeeLittle — August 15, 2012 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTf6NK...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmW19u...

Imagine the the outrage the right would display if Prez Obama was motivated into public service (I'm careful not to say anything involving assistance!) :))) by a Russian Atheist!

Ryan's inspiration.

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 11:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**"An Extreme Choice": Embracing Ayn Rand, GOP VP Pick Paul Ryan Backs Dismantling New Deal [VIDEO]**

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/13/an_extreme_choice_embracing_ayn_rand

nailingit — August 15, 2012 at 11:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*GENE SIMMONS in American Legion Magazine
My America: Gene Simmons
American Legion Magazine

Gene is featured in the August 2012 issue. Here's what he had to say:

"I came to America as a child of 8 with my mother. I soon learned it was my responsibilty to learn to speak English, if I wanted to access all the freedoms and opportunities America had to offer. It was also my responsibilty to know America's proud history, and to understand that if it wasn't for America, the world would be in chaos. Sometimes my love for this country strikes people as awkward. I don't care.

"The greatness of America, the freedoms we have and the opportunities we are given are made possible only by the proud men and women of our military. Politicians mean well, I suppose. But wars are not won by talking, which is why KISS has always been a proud to support our troops and our veterans. A dollar from every single ticket sold on out last tour went directly to Wounded Warriors. And we are taking active steps today to hire vets.

"It's the least we could do. It's the least America should do"

Gene Simmons:Bassist and co-vocalist, KISS
Born in Haifax, Israel, in 1949, Simmons is an only child of a German Nazi concentration camp survivor (His mom Florence). He and his mother immigrated to New York, where Simmons earned a bachelor's degree in education and taught sixth grade in Spanish Harlem. He also worked as an assistant at Glamour and Vogue.*

Someone you would think of as extremely liberal, voicing some conservative ideas.

Just thought I would share.

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 2:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Jan Brewer Signs Executive Order Denying State Benefits To Children Of Undocumented Immigrants**

PHOENIX, Aug 15 (Reuters) - Arizona Republican Governor Jan Brewer, in yet another clash with the White House, issued an order on Wednesday barring undocumented immigrants who qualify for temporary legal status in the United States from receiving any state or local public benefits.

To qualify, recipients must have been younger than 16 years old upon arrival; currently not older than 30; have lived in the country since June 15, 2007; and have no felony convictions.

Brewer wrote in the order that the new program "does not confer upon them any lawful or authorized status and does not entitle them to any additional public benefits."

Carlos Garcia, director of the grassroots community group Puente in Phoenix, called the governor's move on Wednesday a "mean-spirited attack" on a well-meaning program.

"Brewer has once again put Arizona's name on the map as the epicenter of anti-immigrant racism and hate," Garcia said in a statement. "However, like we have continuously showed throughout her time as governor, the community will stand united against Brewer's latest assault." (Editing by Cynthia Johnston and Stacey Joyce)

---

[(**A**ssine**P**ithy**N**ews)] In further news, APN is reporting House Republicans have passed a bill requiring a change to "The New Colossus", a sonnet by Emma Lazarus which currently reads,

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

To read...

"Screw your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to be free,

---

APN [lian tigni] also reporting when House Republicans return from their 5 week vacation they will introduce legislation to re-write the words of Jesus Christ, which currently read,

"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"
(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

To read...

Truly, I say to you, show me your F' ing papers.

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 3:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Deferred Action Immigration Event Draws Thousands Of DREAMers On First Day**

Attendees were instructed to bring documents showing their age and identity, proving they came to the U.S. more than five years ago and before they turned 16. They also need to show that they are either in high school, graduated, or obtained a GED, or that they were honorably discharged from the military. Immigrants were also told to bring $465 to pay for the application to the government, meant to cover the cost of processing. The administration has said applications will not lead to detention or deportation except in rare cases, and most seemed to trust that they were not putting themselves in the hands of a government that would then use the information to deport them.

Still, the policy is a temporary one, and could be ended at any time. It's a tricky issue for presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney, who admitted at a National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials the week after Obama's announcement that he would have preferred not to talk about immigration. Romney said during the Republican primary that he would veto the Dream Act, and has said he opposes Obama's action. He hasn't gone so far to condemn it as amnesty, though, and has refused to say whether he would end it if he's elected.

Many advocates of the directive said they don't think Romney would do something so unpopular as reverse it, although they don't want to give him the chance. Most Republicans stayed clear of the issue on Wednesday. Only one prominent Republican, immigrant hawk Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), put out a statement criticizing the policy. Luis Tellez, a 19-year-old would-be Marine with a buzzed haircut and a camo-print backpack, said he thinks the Dream Act will eventually pass. "Politicians are looking at the political aspect of it, and it's not only good for them but it's good for the country," he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/deferred-action-immigration_n_1785443.html

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 4:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Why is it when our county has 'vote by mail', turnout is the lowest in the state?

Trying to find excuses for it is easy. Mr. Kimsey is wrong. It doesn't matter about Oregon's elections or that the regional news coverage lacks information for our county. What it comes down to is apathy. Plain and simple.

You get your ballot early enough to do the research and vote. If you 'forget' that isn't anybody's fault but your own. Don't complain that you weren't aware that it was time to get your ballot in. Besides, if you want to go to a polling place and vote you still can.

Ever since I was old enough to vote I have voted in every election but one. That's forty plus years. My folks, as far back as I can remember, said if you don't vote don't bitch!!!

The anomaly that is used about high turnout in '08 was due to the fact it was going to make history if Obama was elected. Please don't say it was something else. Besides it was still less than forty percent in our county.

JohnCasey — August 16, 2012 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

One of my favorite Left Coast bands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQb79A...

roger — August 16, 2012 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — August 16, 2012 at 5:49 a.m.

I ask why people don't discuss issues, get involved, vote, etc. The most common answer is that it doesn't matter what they do or say - the govts are going to do what they want anyhow. It's a sense of powerlessness - just ride the train until it goes over the cliff.

And you (or at least I) can't convince them otherwise.

roger — August 16, 2012 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *One of my favorite Left Coast bands.* Mine also! John Kay w/revised company still rockin'. I checked out their website..pretty cool! I didn't realize Kay grew up in Hannover and was turned on to American rock through...AFN radio! There are times I miss AFN TV. The info PSA "commercials" were much better than the advertising drivel we get in the states.

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://steppenwolf.com/

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, at the risk of another branding as RWTP, I have a question that may have been discussed before, but I wasn't around to annoy everyone with my opinion.

What is wrong with requiring an ID to vote?

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye @ 9:18 pm...

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. The request for bids on 174,000 rounds of ammunition for the Social Security Administration is on the government website below:

FBO.gov

Click on "Opportunities."

Then, click on "Search by Classification NAICS Code, Recovery."

Scroll down to "Classification Code" and click on "Ammunition" and click search. It's on page 4.

I'll be away from the computer for awhile

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana,

Absolutely nothing wrong with requiring an ID to vote. When I first started voting, not only were we required to show our ID we also were required to sign and date in a book for the precinct.

Why other than mail in ballots we have now we don't have to provide that info. But,...we do have to sign the envelopes. Which anyone could sign anyone's name as long as that name matches that ballot.

My question would also be, how often are those signatures checked with the number on those ballets?

Also Dana, how do you feel, being active duty military, about Obama's push changing the right in one state that was allowing military to vote early? I guess now in that state they aren't allowed to do so even if they are on deployment.

ELISI — August 16, 2012 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The market was 14000 in 08 and is now 13108. If properly invested you actually should be slighty ahead now... That means if everything was equal and you continued to contribute in down years your money buys more of the same shares so you should come out with more shares and about the same price as 08....."

Tell that to the millions that retired just prior to the crash and lost billions. Tell that to the millions on the verge of retirement that found out they couldn't. Actually I did throw all I could in when the DJA was around 8000. And you're right, I'm about where I was 5 years ago, probably up somewhat. In the same 5 years, my SS acount has grown about $60K.

If I was given the choice between a guaranteed pension plan and a privatized plan as proposed, I'd take the guaranteed plan. All those public employees can't be wrong. If someone wants the crooks on Wall St to gamble with their future, I wish them good luck with that. I've pretty much pulled all mine out of that casino, so I don't really care what they do anymore. Fool me once kinda thing.

mrd — August 16, 2012 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Romney gets caught lying about Obama, military voters**

Indeed, when pressed, Romney's spokesperson could point to "no place in Obama's lawsuit that seeks to restrict the rights of military voters," and Romney's legal counsel failed to "offer evidence that Obama's lawsuit would make it tougher for members of the military to vote."

After the campaign's dishonesty was exposed, Romney put a twist on his lie, saying Obama now opposes giving the troops special treatment. But even by Republican standards, this is insane -- by this reasoning, Romney supports a policy that discriminates against military veterans in Ohio who would be legally prohibited from the same early-voting rights as active-duty servicemen and women.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/06/13144744-romney-gets-caught-lying-about-obama-military-voters?lite

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Lordy be that you copy and paste from the bible now instead of the Huff Post..Please don't it's unbecoming and portrays you in such a righteous light...When we all know you are not...On the lawsuit, I watched last night as that was debated and really saw nothing from both sides that made me say the other was right or wrong.. I call it political maneuvering

vanwadreamer — August 16, 2012 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal



It doesn't get any better than this! :)))

**Jon Stewart Blasts Republicans For Divisive Hypocrisy (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/jon-stewart-blasts-republicans-divisive-hypocrisy_n_1788870.html

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Comedy news play = Blasts? LMAO!

Now that thar was funny!

ELISI — August 16, 2012 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


AP Report: Family Research Council Shooter A Liberal Activist, Volunteered With Left-Wing Groups, Had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches In His Bag…

The man who is alleged to have shot a security guard yesterday at the offices of the pro-life group Family Research Council has been formally charged and new FBI documents present more information.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/16/shooter-told-family-research-council-i-dont-like-your-politics/

ELISI — August 16, 2012 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 7:53 a.m.

GO, Dee, did you happen to read the LAST link?

https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=35a0a8437a09ac45eb96f7c0a1fa315b

It tells you how many and where they are going. I suspect they have armed guards at each office and those guards need to be proficient in the operation of their weapons so they practice, probably EVERY year. I would guess this amount is the same amount up for bid every year.

So, what do you want to blow out of proportion next? Is the sky falling yet????

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, that wasn't very nice. I questioned Dee on her information regarding the ammunition purchase. I decided to go beyond those websites like infowars and abovetopsecret and did a little investigative work on my own time as I don't always believe what the internet has to share. I took *MY* time out to check out the information and provided *YOU* with the CREDIBLE data *YOU* had requested. To be honest Hawkeye, my system wouldn't allow me to open the link as I do not have Excel on my system. Didn't have a need for it. I provided you with the directions for the information and I did so, with good intentions.

Don't shoot the messenger, Hawkeye. Your argumentative tone doesn't help your case and it certainly doesn't help in the realm of civility toward your fellow forum dweller, either.

And BTW, the sky isn't falling...only leftover meteors from the Perseid Meteor Shower. I only wish tonight's temperature would drop quicker than the meteorologic forecast. Guess we're in the midst of the Dog Days of Summer, you think???

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 1:09 p.m.

No dog days here, cat days. And he says it's too damn hot out and is laying under the ceiling fan.

Sorry about the attitude, I thought you were going along with Dee on this one. It often amazes me how some people read things into nothing at all.

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Hawkeye...maybe it's the heat getting to us, who knows??? This lady spent the morning in the parking lot at WinCo with failed brakes on her car in 90+ degree heat on what was like an airport tarmac with heat rising from the ground like little waves, waiting for a tow truck...never a good thing. I'm just thankful they went out in the parking lot and not on the roadway. All that matters is that I'm home safe and nothing worse had happened.

Your apology is accepted. I did agree with DeeLittle in that I too had many, many questions. She stated some eye openers which I did a little research to find out the validity (no offense to Dee of course). You should me by now in my writes that I am suspicious of the internet stories and want to see the information in plain sight...AT THE SOURCE. I do the same for others on the forum as well. Guess it's my inquisitive nature. Maybe I should've become a detective or a law attorney, lol.

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, GO. If you don't have Office, you can try

http://www.openoffice.org/

It's free and works well.

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also Hawkeye...it's a good thing we don't live in the Midwest with the temps they've been experiencing. I'll take the Pacific Northwest heat waves over any others elsewhere. At least we have the marine influence to bring down the temps rather rapidly!!!

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Hawkeye. I have Microsoft Office but we had problems with Excel and removed it. I'll check it out later. For now though...I'm signing off till it's cooler this evening.

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't remember what the ad was for or about but I loved the tag line in it. 'I read it on the internet'. 'It has to be true' or something like that.

Glad to hear you're OK GO. You're right, it coulda been worse. Gave a ride to my grandkids to Meadows just now and it is warm out there. OK it's too damn hot. Gotta go out again at four this afternoon to P-Town. Wish me luck. Seeing the way the idiots out there have been driving lately I probably won't get back till after 6.

I just talked to a neighbor and she said that 200 employees of Columbia Credit Union have a mandatory meeting/picnic today in a parking lot. They will get paid. There will be some shade provided. Oh, and shorts are OK. Go figure!! What? They couldn't get a park or something.

Hawk, it sounds like maybe you should do a little intervention there with your grandson. Like let let him know that it's OK to do things in a private lot as opposed to the public roads.

Roger, another thing my folks taught me was if a discussion starts about politics or religion don't get involved. It very rarely comes out well. History has proven their point. My kids are part time voters and it seems they have that same attitude about it. What difference does it make. I try to explain but you can see the shades being drawn when I mentions it. But I can say when they vote they both do their homework, so that's a plus I guess.

JohnCasey — August 16, 2012 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ELISE**
when i saw the 1st post, checked the source and discounted it.

but after the 2nd, checked fedops, it's there. then it's suddenly 'a mistake' and removed.

why is the gvt buying *hollowpoint* rounds to shoot at *paper targets* in a *police firing range*?

DeeLittle — August 16, 2012 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — August 16, 2012 at 7:27 p.m

If you knew anything about firing a weapon, you always practice with what you will use. If you use solid core or a different load, your shot will be off.

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


just read the ssa'a response to the concern about the ammo.

they claim it's necessary, because the ssa has investigation duties and they are also tasked to protect their workers.

so why are they ordering " .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition'?

hollow points aren't even legal to use by the military in combat. and 174 *THOUSAND* of them...?

DeeLittle — August 16, 2012 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whatever gun you use, get one you aren't afraid of. Too many times gals, or even guys, listen to some blow-hard and buy a 44 magnum or some other high recoil caliber. After firing it a couple of times, they are afraid of it and can't hit anything. The enemy will kill you if you hesitate. At home, the best weapon is a twelve gauge shotgun with a short barrel and some no. 4 or similar shot. It's probably the best all around weapon for self defense, but, it's kind of hard to conceal. At any rate, as stated earlier, practice, practice, practice, and unless you have some kind of killer instinct, you will still most likely lose the gun fight, because you will think before shooting while the felon shoots first and moves on. And the Columbian can take their captcha and shove it.

cranky — August 16, 2012 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good advice, cranky. Also, I might add...if you don't have the intestinal fortitude to use deadly force in order to protect yourself, then maybe it's best not to make such an investment in the first place.

Regarding Captcha...maybe we need to take a vote here on the forum then approach John Hill with the results. Heck, our vote on this would be just about as effective as a vote on the president for the next four years (nyuk, nyuk).

All those who want to eliminate Captcha from the Columbian Forum say "Aye." All those opposed..."Nay."

It's an "Aye" from me.

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey...

Thanks. Hopefully you survived driving in the intense heat with the crazy drivers today and are at home keeping cool. It's crazy out there!!!

I can't believe it's still so stuffy outside tonight. I noticed a rather dingy, thick haze over the area. I wouldn't doubt it if there will be an air stagnation advisory tomorrow if it persists. I feel bad for the folks in the Cle Elum (sp?) area.

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay Hawkeye, I reviewed the link regarding the bids for ammunition at SSA. My question to you is...why would they need 1000, 2000, 4000 or even 15,000 rounds of .357 ammo (hollow point for that matter)for maybe one disgruntled customer???

Wikipedia online definition:

*A hollow-point bullet is an expanding bullet that has a pit or hollowed out shape in its tip, often intended to cause the bullet to expand upon entering a target in order to decrease penetration and disrupt more tissue as it travels through the target. It is also used for controlled penetration, where over-penetration could cause collateral damage (such as on an aircraft).*

Nope...I can't say it's an ordinary purchase request. It appears to me that all government agencies are doing their own bit of stockpiling on ammunition designated to destroy.

And Hawkeye...here's a note to ponder for ya...

Remember the term "Going Postal..." ??? What if the tables are turned and that "Security Guard" takes their job to the extreme???

I guess I'll still be skeptical on this one till I hear better reasoning behind the need for purchase.

goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ANNIE-GET YOUR GUN!!

I loved hearing the gun folks describing how-if armed-they'd have taken out the goofball that shot up the movie theatre in Colorado. Imagine this, a guy goes into a dark theatre, wearing mostly black, his protective armor, sets off 3 teargas canisters, and opens fire with semi-automatic weapons in a theatre with people screaming and running all over the place. Somehow, many folks seem to think if some of the movie patrons were "packing", they could take him out. They might, but I'd guess they'd kill many other folks in the process. BTW, did you see the story were some idiot took a loaded gun-legal and all-into a theatre? Had a loaded handgun in his pocket (duh), dropped it, and shot himself in the butt? Butt, anyway, load up and shoot 'em up. This after all is America. As the Senile Court ruled, we need to be armed to protect ourselves from each other. Ain't we sumpthin' else? Shoot 'em up! Pick a mosque, a Sihk temple, whatever. Shoot first and we'll deal with it later-maybe. We gotta have that bloodsport!

mrd — August 16, 2012 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal




OK, I see everyone was busy here, time for me to chime in. I think I will do an individual post for each point I wish to address. Afterall, I would like to provide ammunition (pun?) to those that want to scream FWA.

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 16, 2012 at 8:50 p.m.

Yes, GO. I know what a hollowpoint is. I have several (not saying how many) boxes. The thing is, whether it's 15000 or 3000 rounds, I would guess it depends on how many guards they have. They might buy 500 rounds per employee per year. That way, they can qualify (100 rounds each practice time, who knows how many times they practice) and have enough left over for use. I'm thinking the reason for the hollowpoints is stopping power, two reasons, 1, the round stops the assailant and 2, the round stops without going through and hitting someone else. That's why I use them.

And I vote to get rid of the captcha or make it so that when we sign in, it clears the program for us.

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**One Surprising Reason People May Believe Bizarre Conspiracy Theories**

*People who see dark conspiracies everywhere are offering some interesting information — about themselves.*

The reasons people persist in believing conspiracy theories — even when there is overwhelming evidence debunking them — have long been debated by psychologists. One credible theory contends convincing ourselves of conspiracies allows us to avoid acknowledging the terrifying arbitrariness of life.

“In a strange way, some conspiracy theories offer us accounts of events that allow us to retain a sense of safety and predictability,” British psychologist Patrick Leman noted in New Scientist in 2007. “Instability makes most of us uncomfortable.”

Douglas and Sutton aren’t denying that fear avoidance plays a role, but they’re pointing to a different (perhaps complementary) phenomenon. In some cases, they argue, belief in conspiracies is a matter of psychological projection — that is, the tendency to apply one’s own attitude to others.

read more @

http://www.alternet.org/story/150730/one_surprising_reason_people_may_believe_bizarre_conspiracy_theories

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI-

I have learned a bit about absentee voting, having utilized it for several years while in numerous locations (lived in 5 states, and 5 countries). The law states that local elections clerks must send out absentee ballots no later than 30 days prior to the election day (45 days to overseas locations). Now here is the slippery part:

Some locations, such as my current one, the mail system isn't running at exactly optimum efficiency. I submitted my mailing address to Clark County within 14 days of arriving at my location, well ahead of the 45 day requirement. I even recieved an email confirmation from the elections office of my new address.

I am still waiting to recieve my ballot for the 7 Aug primary.

Fortunately, our county provides email ballots as well, so I was able to request one and return it by email as well.

Any measure that allows for Service Members to vote, regardless of their location I am all in favor of. Anyone taking a measure to restrict that, I believe they have something to fear. I saw where there is discussion about the lawsuit in OH, and a quote from Romney that was proved to be false. Someone used the wording of "special treatment" for military.

We don't want special treatment, we just want a fair opportunity to excercise OUR constitutional rights. Special treatment is something like a Gay Pride event.

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

While it is true that there is a difference in flight from different types of rounds, it is also dependent on the range to the target. So are these rounds for sniper firing? Is the danger faced by SSA agents that serious?

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie-

regarding captcha:

put me down for AYE

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And why did I only get one response regarding voter ID?

is nail sleeping? basil on vacation?

I thought for sure I would be branded something vile for the suggestion.

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Stephen Colbert Presents The Fierce Five Interns (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/colbert-presents-fierce-five-interns-video_n_1790333.html

nailingit — August 16, 2012 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 9:36 p.m

No, I wouldn't think so. They are 357 Sig and run around 1450 fps. Short range. About on par with a 9mm, maybe a little hotter but not the extreme as a 357 mag. They are an all around user friendly weapon, nice balance and can carry 15 rounds.

hawkeye — August 16, 2012 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ya gotta love politics!

**Washington State Libertarian Party Sues To Remove Mitt Romney From Ballot**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mitt-romney-washington-state-libertarian_n_1793305.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 12:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, not all of us are aware of ammunition descriptions. I didn't put that up for you. Sorry, I should have made an annotation to that definition. Regardless, I still believe the type of bullet used is unnecessary for average duties of a security guard. Who knows what type of ballistic training they have in their history...

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Danabwoodley, sorry I didn't answer sooner regarding showing identification when voting. I'm 100% in favor of voter identification in order to cast your vote. Some day, it just might come to fingerprint ID with one of those portable contraptions local officers have available which tie right into a national database.

Well, here's our stats thus far on removal of Captcha (love the ones which show only the top edges of letters or when the words are in foreign alphabets..or the shaded numbers that are so fuzzy, nobody could read them):

Aye - 3

Nay - 0

(You watching, John Hill???)

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...the target practice video tells all!!! A tad bit humorous yet quite an unnerving scenario. Hopefully the last demonstration didn't prove to be a serious injury.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie-

The technology is available now. We are using it extensively in the 'Stan. All it takes is a computer with appropriate software and a network connection. The using organization can create and maintain their own database. With additional software and a secure network, you can link into AFIS (FBI's database).

But I am certain that someone is prepared to jump up and down screaming that would be a 4th ammendment violation, like drug testing welfare recipients. But it's perfectly legal to test me regularly. Go figure.

danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 7:33 a.m

My question is, do we actually have a problem with people trying to vote more than once? Are there stats on this or does the problem not exist.

Who is behind this and why?

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My fingerprints in a national data base? No way, Jose.

Put me in for a CAPTCHA "aye." John, take a look at the suggestion about doing the CAPTCHA thing only on login. Is that possible?

Drift — August 17, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**How Voter ID Laws Are Being Used to Disenfranchise Minorities and the Poor**

In 10 years, just 100 federal prosecutions and 50 state convictions -- in a colossal state with a population of more than 25 million people. You can do the math. You can be stupid and vote in America. You can be drunk and vote in America. You can be mentally insane and vote in America. You could vote in America for Snooki or Rod Blagojevich. Or, like tens of millions of your fellow citizens, you can choose not to vote at all. But if you don't have the means to get a driver's license, or if you cannot afford the time and money it takes to get certain other forms of government ID, you are out of luck? What a great country this is.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/

**Ignoring the real threat of fraud**

So, on one side, we have 80 percent of the states (plus D.C.) that have adopted a simple measure to prevent potentially calamitous fraud or error on their voting machines. On the other side, we have the vast majority of states that have ignored this very real threat, while adopting restrictive voter ID laws that could prevent millions of people from voting.
What does it say about states that pass restrictive voting laws to “prevent fraud,” when they ignore the most serious threats and refuse to take the most basic safety measures — particularly when these measures would disenfranchise no one?
What does it say about their “election integrity” efforts, when the only actions they take are deemed of little security value by independent experts, but will keep many who have voted their whole lives from casting a ballot this November?
The most obvious answer is: Nothing good.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79820.html#ixzz23oxjR4yR

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Policy Brief on the Truth About “Voter Fraud”**

Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare. Most citizens who take the time to vote offer their legitimate signatures and sworn oaths with the gravitas that this hard-won civic right deserves. Even for the few who view voting merely as a means to an end, however, voter fraud is a singularly foolish way to attempt to win an election. Each act of voter fraud risks five years in prison and a $10,000 fine - but yields at most one incremental vote. The single vote is simply not worth the price.

Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**The Fraud of Voter Fraud**

There is a coordinated, nationwide effort right now to enact voter ID laws that do nothing to impact alleged voter fraud and instead disenfranchise voters and infringe upon the fundamental American right to free and fair elections... which is, of course, precisely what the proposed laws are intended to do.

Photo ID laws have been introduced or passed in at least 15 states. They discriminate against those who don’t have driver’s licenses — disproportionately the poor, elderly and minorities. Nationally they could disenfranchise about five million voters. Several states are also pushing legislation to restrict voter registration and to limit early voting.

A quick check of the facts vis-à-vis voter fraud: The Bush Justice Department conducted a massive, five-year investigation into voter fraud that resulted in a mere 86 convictions nationwide. An independent investigation into voter fraud in Missouri in 2000 determined that the rate of voter fraud in that state was 0.0003%. A similar study in Ohio in 2004 turned up a percentage of 0.0004%, while another study in Wisconsin the same year measured the proportion of fraudulent votes at 0.0002%.

Notably, in virtually every case the “fraudulent” votes involved either in- and out-of-state double voting or votes cast by ineligible voters, chiefly ex-felons, problems that would not be addressed by photo ID. None were cases of actual fraud via voter impersonation.

Based on these studies, and expecting about 125 million votes to be cast nationwide in this year’s general election, we can anticipate the number of ineligible or fraudulent votes to be cast in 2012 at between 250 and 500. We like to say that every vote counts, but, really, five to ten votes, on average, in each of 50 states are hardly likely to make a difference in this, or any, election’s outcome. Voter fraud is just not a very real threat to American democracy.

*However, the costs of implementing these new laws are very real. States must undertake massive public information campaigns, retrain poll workers, account for longer lines on Election Day, and produce and distribute millions of free IDs to citizens. This has the potential to increase electoral costs in some states by as much as 50 percent — tens of millions of dollars.*

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/20/1110832/-The-Fraud-of-Voter-Fraud

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift.... just curious here...

Have you had any bloodwork or surgical procedure in the past, let's say...five or ten years??? If so, did you know your DNA is probably already in the national database?

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I don't think it's just multiple votes by one person. To get a taste of voter fraud from some of the states, check these two links out:

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagnews/release.php?id=3991

http://www.minnesotamajority.org/Home/tabid/112/EntryID/375/Default.aspx (read the report)

I'm not sure if there's any actual "national" database of just how many incidents have occurred, but they are occurring. I've shared just two links which I found in the course of five minutes. I believe the same is happening in the Social Security Administration with people utilizing deceased individuals' names and identities as well as failing to report the death of the person who receives SSI. Who knows where else fraud is occurring...sometimes without the individual even knowing that they are working in fraudulent activities???

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:32 a.m

Once case of voter fraud affects everyone. You can read the statistics in a daily news site (which I'm surprised you'd support anything supported by GW Bush to be honest, given the history of the GW Bush elections), but as long as the "convictions" are there...there's plenty more yet to be discovered. I believe positively identifying the voters should be mandatory since the turnout of the elections are so crucial to the stability of our nation.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as Brennan Center is concerned, it is my observation that it is their claim there is no voter fraud that exists in the USA, but I was able to pull up two sites which actually do cite the number of Voter Fraud Convictions within the states of Minnesota and Texas, albeit a minute percentage of each state..but it is happening. Just saying it isn't so...doesn't mean it isn't so. The old ostrich's head in the ground ideals possibly???

Not sure if BC's information is totally reliable.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmm...voter fraud case...

Interesting conviction (Also check out the sidebar. It's all in the family)

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/FormerDallas--140611433.html

Should the Brennan Center...whose data stems from 2007 BTW...just shrug off the fact that voter fraud exists???

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


go- I don't know if you bothered to read the articles given your response. One can only use facts, events, numbers to help clear things up. After that....believe what you will. Not intended to change anyones mind, just supporting opinion with data.

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, the Texas article didn't list any voter fraud at all. It was all about them wanting to require photo ID and the fight for that. The Minnesota article talked about voter fraud but it was more about felons voting. Apparently in Minnesota, they don't tell these bozos when they get out of the pen that they can't vote. Regardless, the number listed would hardly change anything on the national level.

My real question here regarding a new law requiring photo ID, is the good going to outweigh the bad?

Neither one of my inlaws had current photo ID before they died. They had Medicare cards and other insurance cards but no drivers licenses or anything like that and they both voted. Now are you going to tell me they would have to go to the DMV and get ID cards in order to vote? It boggles the mind to think all that would involve.

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hey drift, didn't they print you when you went into the service?

I know I've been printed by the County (Clark & Multnomah) for my concealed licenses.

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't recall being printed when I inlisted, hawk. I *was* printed before I recieved a secret clearance at Yuma Proving Grounds though. Oh, and there was that time at the sheriff's station... heh.

I have blood drawn annually, goldie. I sincerely doubt the V.A. does a DNA profile on all of their patients. You'd have to show me some evidence to convince me otherwise.

My previous objection to a "national data base" was about voting. To have prints a requirement in casting a ballot... No. Unequivocally No.

If I didn't have hands would I be able to vote?

Even though we all have mail in ballots now, do you know why drop off stations are still available? Well, I'll tell you. It's because if the only way to cast your ballot was through the mail then that 42 cents could be construed as a poll tax - which is prohibited by the 24th amendment.

Drift — August 17, 2012 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 17, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.

Last I heard, the government has a DNA library of all servicemen for their use only and it's supposed to be for identification purposes only, you know if they can't find your fingerprints. I don't know how far it goes back or if and when they purge it.

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As a Texas legislator said, "Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem". Very few instances of voter fraud, even fewer convictions. From what I read, most cases involved mail in ballots, and voter ID wouldn't address that.

In Texas, a person needs a copy of their original birth certificate to meet current proposals at $22 a copy. Many feel that would stop many from voting, as would the entire process itself.

It seemed Texas and Arizona were the states where Republicans were pushing voter ID the hardest. Is it a coincedence these two typically red states have growing Latino populations? Hhmmmm......naw!

mrd — August 17, 2012 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...Nailingit...

I guess the both of you missed the little segment in the Texas link which stated and I quote

*"Since 2002, the U.S. Department of Justice has prosecuted more than 100 defendants for election fraud. During the same period, election fraud investigations by the Texas Attorney General's Office have resulted in 50 convictions. Those cases include a woman who submitted her dead mother's ballot, a paid operative who cast two elderly voters' ballots after transporting them to the polling place, a city council member who unlawfully registered ineligible foreign nationals to vote in an election that was decided by a 19-vote margin, a Starr County defendant who voted twice on Election Day, a Harris County man who used his deceased father's voter registration card to vote in an election, an election worker who pled guilty after attempting to vote for another individual with the same last name, and a Hidalgo County man who presented another voter's registration card and illegally cast that voter's ballot on Election Day."*

In the Minnesota link, I guess you didn't check out the PDF report to the left of the article.

..

Nailingit...I DID in fact read the articles in their entirety. What is it you claim that I missed???

Do you just go ahead excuse the violators just because the numbers are low*...as if the crimes never happened???* What about the case in Texas that I pointed out...with yet another caption alongside it which mentions another family member involved in voter fraud? Are you going to deny that as fact?

What determines your decision that voter fraud is in fact, nonexistent? Or is it the fact that I don't think along the same political lines as you, so you have to resort to belittling my statements??? Based on what???

And Nailingit, I'd hardly consider the links you share most of the time, like Dailykos or huffpost as viable data supporting your statements. Instead, I see those reports as media mongering by you...to be utilized as support material to prove your point (typical of someone who writes or used to write or editorialize a news entity). I merely pointed out a discrepancy in fact-based information by Brennan Center and you got your feathers all in a bunch.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Even though we all have mail in ballots now, do you know why drop off stations are still available? Well, I'll tell you. It's because if the only way to cast your ballot was through the mail then that 42 cents could be construed as a poll tax - which is prohibited by the 24th amendment.

Drift — August 17, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.

The 24th amendment ending a poll tax has only been around since 1964. Many of the voting suppression tactics amount to a version of a poll tax. Another example of voting suppression is allowing different hours and days for voting depending on demographics. 8-5 weekdays only versus evenings & weekends in other precincts in the same town. I'll let you guess the demographics. Also, voting machine problems and fewer machines and long lines in some areas & not others.

I deliver my ballot to my polling place at Minnehaha School and drop it in the ballot box.

langenthal — August 17, 2012 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift - August 17, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.

How many people truly read the fine print when signing the forms? You could easily be allowing collection of DNA samples without realizing it...when you sign the authorization form. Seriously.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also Drift...

In the event of an automobile accident or some other medical emergency when you are unable to sign for yourself, your loved ones could also be signing an approval for a DNA sample for the DNA banks.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No one ever said voter fraud was non-existent. I guess if a portion of the electorate believe in changing rules in order to block an infinitesimal amount of voter fraud, while spending a disproportionate amount of taxpayer dollars to find it, is a reasonable trade off to disenfranchising millions of American voters one would have to question the reasoning/motive behind it.

go- Not sure of the *you got your feathers all in a bunch.* or *What determines your decision that voter fraud is in fact, nonexistent?*or *you have to resort to belittling my statements???*

But that's okay. If my responses upset you, you can defer not to comment on articles/commentary that I post.

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.

I think you are confusing DNA with DNR..... LOL

As for the Texas story, do you think 50 convictions is considered "widespread criminal activity"?

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**14 States Where Making Just $5,000 Can Get You Kicked Off Medicaid**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/states-medicaid_n_1792150.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir;=Politics

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting write from Mr. Page with the DNA thing. Thought to share it. A national data base seems to be weak for criminals let alone for others. Government DNA collection is a beloved subject by conspiracy theorists.

**Clarence Page: Expanding the DNA database is a bad idea**

As if President Barack Obama didn't have enough on his platter, he's calling for people accused of crimes to have their DNA samples collected and stored in a national database, whether they're convicted or not. He's a brave man to open that can of worms.

Just putting the words "DNA" and "database" together is like a tripwire to the crowd that still thinks Obama was secretly born in Kenya and has death panels in his health care overhaul.
And they're not alone. Just think: Will those Americans who bitterly oppose registration of their guns, for example, go along quietly with the registration of their genetic codes?

That's not quite what Obama is calling for, but it's a short slide down the slippery slope from keeping the DNA profiles of arrestees to keeping the profiles of everybody. And you don't have to be a so-called birther or gun nut to care about your privacy.

In an interview with the president on the 100th episode of America's Most Wanted, host John Walsh strongly suggested collecting the DNA profiles of arrestees into a single, national database.

read more @

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20100317-Clarence-Page-Expanding-the-DNA-7884.ece

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm pretty sure my DNA hasn't been analyzed, goldie, and I'll tell you why. *They* haven't been here.

I'd imagine it would go something like the tech doing the anaysis thinking the sample a prank. "This isn't human. I don't know what it is, but it aint homosapien. Whose idea was this..."

And that's when the trouble would start.

Cuz, see... I'm not from here. I'm just visiting.

(just having a bit of fun on a warm Friday afternoon)

Drift — August 17, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift...

I'm just a smilin' with your comment at 2:12 pm.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit @1:38 pm says *"If my responses upset you, you can defer not to comment on articles/commentary that I post."*

Now what makes you think your responses upset me? They didn't. I'm merely stating my observation. I've brought my talking points to the table after Hawkeye questioned the validity of voter fraud and after you posted three links implying the use of voter fraud, whether or not it is existent and you made no comment to the links which in 99% of the time means you are in agreement with what you discover and share with others OR that you are raising awareness and raising the level of discussion. I've provided verifiable data just as you and others have made it clear as being the course of events on the forum in order to convince others about your point of view. You have provided links which I question since I have been able to find data which conflicts with what your links were stating.

It is obvious that I might have upset you with your request for me to defer or not to comment on what you post when it comes to articles OR commentary.

It would also make sense that in order for a discussion to be constructive in nature, there would be more than one person in the discussion or it would be very one sided. The same holds true for folks whose views do not align with each other. If you have only one group of like-minded individuals with nobody with a different idea raising the questions to the table...it wouldn't be a discussion now, would it? It would be a yes sir, no sir...lah, lah, lah world with only one consenting mindset making up all the information we live by, day to day...whether it be true or false.

The real game of the discussion is in fact...who is the more convincing and who has the actual data...the numbers...to back their argument up as well as the credibility in the origin of the data collected, wouldn't you say???

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Folks...it's been fun today, hanging out on the forum with ya. Got the brakes fixed on the car...master cylinder issues; also had some axle work done and car is now safe once again. Now it's time to hang out with family!

Have a good one.

And Drift...

I'm still smilin'.

goldenoldie — August 17, 2012 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**GOLDIE**

that's what we had for some time. the nails and the basils believed this to be the perfect forum.

they'll never realize that's the hallmark of demagoguery.

as for captcha.....AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE

DeeLittle — August 17, 2012 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A little tongue in cheek and a fun read...(a few on the forum have brought this up before:)

**Perhaps What America Really Needs Is a Voter IQ Law**

Some are saying the laws are unnecessary, especially given the findings of a recent study conducted by News21 that found that out of 600 million votes cast, only 10 cases of voter fraud have occurred since 2000. Yes, 10 might seem like a small number, but that's only if you fail to put it in perspective. For example, there have been more cases of voter fraud since 2000 (10) than Harry Potter movies released (eight) during that same time period -- and it feels like there have been so many Harry Potter movies released since 2000. Or, since 2000, voter fraud has happened five times as frequently as Britney Spears marriages (two).

I have to commend these brave politicians pushing through this crucial legislation, but I feel that if they're truly this passionate about ensuring our democracy functions properly, perhaps they should consider introducing another provision: Voter IQ laws. Yes, making sure that we only allow real Americans who work at jobs that will allow them to leave on a weekday to wait in line at the DMV for four hours is a good first step, but I feel that if we truly want to honor the vision of the Founding Fathers, we should in fact only allow those who are informed on basic issues vote. Thomas Jefferson himself once said, "Democracy demands an educated and informed electorate," and we're all about taking everything the Founding Fathers said literally in this country. As such, I've taken it upon myself to design a basic three question primer that voters could be required to answer correctly before casting a ballot:

1. What country was the current President of the United States born in?

2. Is America legally a Christian nation?

3. Name three government agencies.

Read more @

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-treadway/voter-id-laws_b_1797495.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7eJ_...

Does anyone trust Mittens?

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well nail, your 3:49 was just too funny but so true for the "dee" bacle statement made at 3:27. What is this called? Some type of unliterary (no word but fits the conversation) license?? HEY manthou, if you are sitting out there in the bleachers, I have another...stranger than fiction animal for you. Check out Tardigrades.

soapbox4u — August 17, 2012 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey soap. What's up? Funny you brought up manthou. I was thinking about her today wondering where she is. Her comments are sorely missed.

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 3:49 p.m.

What country was the current President of the United States born in? **HUH? This one?**

Is America legally a Christian nation? **Only if it's tax free**

Name three government agencies. **FBI, CIA, NSA**

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- I... think you passed!

Interesting cases of *Election Fraud* happening on the right. Dirty election fraud politics this year seem to be right leaning politicians somehow. There might be some on the left but...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/14/688441/republican-candidate-under-investigation-for-absentee-ballot-fraud/

http://www.freep.com/article/20120809/NEWS15/120809030/State-charges-4-McCotter-ex-staffers-forging-petitions-faking-signatures-election-fiasco

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk- Don't take my word for passing. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell "media mongering" is! :))) I might need resuscitating! :))) Not to be confused with GN'R...

God I love Rock n' Roll!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gu3gD...

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The latest from AZ's Gov Brewer. Once again, an interesting approach. The Dream Act requires, among other things, issuing identification to those who apply. Gov Brewer has responded and issued a decision that AZ will not give a drivers license, or any other state issued ID, to an illegal immigrant.

Legally, meaning under the Constitution, if issuing these permits is left to the states, to include setting requirements, then how can the Feds try to override their requirements? My memory is a little hazy, but I recall the surrounding states complaining for years about South Carolina issuing driving learner permits to 15 year olds. Just checked, and that's still the age.

roger — August 17, 2012 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit---- I LOVE THIS PARAGRAPH!!!!

"When members of Congress scream and holler about Obama taking certain actions on immigration policy, it's within their power to do something about it. They can enact a statute that would overturn or amend, whatever it is that Obama's doing. So in my mind calls by members of Congress to exercise self-restraint really ring hollow."

hawkeye — August 17, 2012 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


However, if something falls within the purview of state powers, then both the Executive order and the Congressional censure should prove immaterial. The states could elect to follow or ignore as they choose.

I'd like to see Eric Holder send a deputy to Phoenix to try to enforce Pres Obama's decision. Any bets on whether Sheriff Joey arrests that person?

And refer back to the article I posted on Monday. The regional splits are getting ever wider; is it even remotely possible we'd have another secession from the Union?

roger — August 17, 2012 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.

OK, so one of the things I am getting from this post is that a certain degree of fraud is acceptable? So at what percentage do we decide that it cannot continue and do something about it?

Does this mean if the number of deaths attributable to homocide drops below 1%, we will stop prosecuting the killers?

I cannot stand that because the number of cases are so low, we shouldn't take preventive measures. I know, many think I am naive with my zero tolerance policy, but then again, I don't care.

And I thought prevention was more valuable than cure.

danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 7:32- Enacting a statute might interfere with vacation time and 9000 attempts to repeal the ACA . :)

roger- An attempt at Succession would be more than interesting! Would it spark mini civil wars within the states wanting to do it? Sounds pretty wild. If the right keeps going right who knows? It would be a 'right' over the cliff moment.

Texas would be a great place to try it. A modern day "Metropolis".

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal



DBW- Not to keep you from your duties so I'll be brief...

*I am naive with my zero tolerance policy, but then again, I don't care.*

I have a zero tolerance for disenfranchising millions of eligible American voters for the hopes of catching a minute few who are not.

*And I thought prevention was more valuable than cure.*

And I thought patriotism/voting rights were more valuable than agenda driven politics.

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


minute=minoot. Not sure of proper spelling. Extremely small.

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This guy Ryan is turning out to be nothing but another dishonest House hack. Great choice Mitt. Two peas in a pod.

**Paul Ryan Got Federal Funds To Help With Bush-Era GM Plant Closure He Blames On Obama**

According to a rudimentary LexisNexis search, Ryan made multiple public pleas to GM, including op-eds in his home state newspaper, to keep the plant open. He and fellow Wisconsin lawmakers went to the automobile company's headquarters to present plans to extend the plant's life. When the Bush administration itself called the decision to close the plant evidence that the auto industry was trimming fat and improving its bottom line, Ryan called the news "gut-wrenching."

And as it became clear in early-fall 2008 that GM wouldn't relent, Ryan publicly touted the federal tax money he secured to help displaced workers -- a use of funds that would seem at odds with his limited-government, fiscal conservative image.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/paul-ryan-gm-federal-funds_n_1799515.html

nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DBW --- It's about voting suppression. I'm sure as a man protecting our freedoms, you care about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_su...

http://www.politicususa.com/federal-court-strikes-rick-scotts-voter-supression-laws.html

----------------------------------------
Now, to change the subject, how 'bout telling us if you think a homeowner should have to join the HOA when that is included as a requirement with the purchase of a home. Is that a subject that interests you?

langenthal — August 17, 2012 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

The DNA library for service members, as you know, is intended for use for identification of remains should visual ID not be possible. It is commonly used to also put an ID in criminal investigations as well.

danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal-

You are right. It is about voter suppression. Suppressing the ability of people to vote who are not legally supposed to.

So what if you have to show ID at the poll? Look at all the things one must show ID for.

Purchase alcohol
purchase tobacco
enter a pornographic establishment
use a credit card for a purchase

So if there are requirements for these activities to be done legally, then we show ID to do them.

Why can't we do that with voting?

danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And HOA's. Right now, that is one topic to make my blood boil. My family is currently looking at purchasing a home, and we are finding more and more that HOAs are prevalent. To find one without an HOA is the exception, and not the rule.

They say that you have a choice, join the HOA, or do not purchase the home. Fine and good. But if I find a quality home, in a decent neighborhood, that I can afford for my family, why am I strong-armed into signing a contract with a deceptive organization that has been legally authorized to take away my personal freedoms?

HOAs, in theory, work for the community good with the primary goal of maintaining/increasing property values. How well has that worked out? I previously rented a home in an HOA that we considered buying should the owner decide to sell. I researched and found that the property lost $75,000 in value within 3 years. I would guess many other neighborhoods are facing similar situations.

They are also a form of government, but are not held accountable to the constitution of the US or State. They charge dues for membership (taxes), can impose assessments for not following the rules (fines), and can make new, or modify existing rules (laws).

They can dictate the color you paint your house, how you decorate your lawn, and even limit your ability to recieve television signals (placement of the dish/antenna).

I researched that the RCW was reworked a few years ago regarding these organizations. If you look, the law covers the rights and responsibilities of the HOAs, but does nothing to give rights to homeowners.

I believe the HOA is the biggest scam going. I have vowed that I will do all I am able to bring an end to the requirement to membership. Already been contacting state legislators, no one is willing to do much right now with the legislative schedule. I see us able to move forward in January on this.

I may regret this, but who has a differing view?

danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal



i have an hoa too, but it's 'inactive'. maybe that would work for you. apparently, it's only an hoa on paper...never elected anybody, never set a rule, etc.

DeeLittle — August 17, 2012 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 10:13 p.m.

People should not purchase houses if they have to cede their property rights to a HOA. The city should also get out of the business of encroaching on property rights, if there is no clear health or safety problem, the government should stay out of peoples business.

frobert — August 17, 2012 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal



I wonder if Ryan will be able to enjoy Rage again! Scathing interview.

**Tom Morello: 'Paul Ryan Is the Embodiment of the Machine Our Music Rages Against'
Rage Against the Machine's guitarist blasts Romney's VP pick and unlikely Rage fan**

By TOM MORELLO
August 16, 2012 6:44 PM ET

Last week, Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan, the Republican architect of Congress's radical right-wing budget plan, as his running mate. Ryan has previously cited Rage Against the Machine as one of his favorite bands. Rage guitarist Tom Morello responds in this exclusive op-ed.

Paul Ryan's love of Rage Against the Machine is amusing, because he is the embodiment of the machine that our music has been raging against for two decades. Charles Manson loved the Beatles but didn't understand them. Governor Chris Christie loves Bruce Springsteen but doesn't understand him. And Paul Ryan is clueless about his favorite band, Rage Against the Machine.

Don't mistake me, I clearly see that Ryan has a whole lotta "rage" in him: A rage against women, a rage against immigrants, a rage against workers, a rage against gays, a rage against the poor, a rage against the environment. Basically the only thing he's not raging against is the privileged elite he's groveling in front of for campaign contributions.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816#ixzz23sZWpXRL

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 12:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee-

When you say inactive, are not paying dues even?

If that is the case, be careful, at anytime the board of directors can be reinstated, start charging dues and assessing penalties.

Most don't know, but an HOA can seize your property and auction it off to pay past due dues or fines. And they aren't required to go through the legal proceedings that a tax lien or mortgage foreclosure has to go through.

Fro-

I agree. I like the property but do not want the HOA, the HOA wins all the time. Oddly, HOAs are permitted as is because they provide certain things that would normally be provided by the existing local government (road maintenance in neighborhood, recreational areas). But you the owner(?) are still obligated to pay the property tax to the local government.

I can appreciate local government involvment in the propery to an extent. Afterall, they maintain records of property divisions. This covers you if there is a dispute between neighbors involving encroachment. But the HOA is an unrestrained, and I believe unlawful, level of government.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 12:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 17, 2012 at 8:59 p.m.

So my question on this would be:

As anyone undertaken a study of registered voters to find out how many would not vote if required to show ID? Honestly, how many of the disenfranchised are actively exercising their voting rights now without the ID requirement?

While I am not saying that any elligible voter shouldn't be allowed to cast their ballot, I am saying that there does exist a group (however small) that votes illegally. ID requirement should prevent most, if not all, of those cases.

Truth be told, I believe this is being raised as an issue to rile up groups of people to charge against the proponents of the idea and get them to vote for the opposing side. Political smoke and mirrors. That way we don't have to look at mistakes and failures of sitting officials seeking reelection.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 1:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...A good morning to ya!

I see last night in a post to Hawkeye...complete with smileys...you were a bit confused about just what media mongering is. Well my fellow forum dweller, maybe this will help you out:

Definition of MONGER (courtesy Merriam Webster online)

1: broker, dealer —usually used in combination

2: a person who attempts to stir up or spread something that is usually petty or discreditable —usually used in combination

Origin of MONGER
Middle English mongere, from Old English mangere, from Latin mangon-, mango, of Greek origin; akin to Greek manganon charm, philter
First Known Use: before 12th century

Soooo...in essence...if you utilize description #2, my very simple explanation to you is this - the act of *media mongering* is the act of attempting to stir up or spread something that is usually petty or discreditable through media outlets...examples - huffpost, fox, etc.

And yes...I'm sure you already knew that....right???

..

Also...at 3:55 pm, you asked "Does anybody trust mittens???" Might I add to that and ask *does anybody truly trust ANY politician these days?*

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 17, 2012 at 8:25 p.m.

Well stated. It doesn't matter the size of issue of voter fraud. If even one person is caught in the act of fraudulence when it comes to voting or any other acts, it affects all of us.

Whatever happened to that Zero Tolerance mindset??? Guess not enough people supported that idea so they brushed that one under the rug too.

Regarding HOA...that is information I was never aware of. I was always told to avoid them if I wanted to have the rights to make decisions on my property without someone other than the county saying yes or no, but never really went out on a limb to ask why. It was enough for me that an association of such could even have that type of control on our lives. Of course, an HOA does have it's positive sides...but probably causes a lot of ulcers with the people of that neighborhood association.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie-

In my research I found what I thought was going to be good news. In 2007, WA commissioned a committee to review HOAs and propose legislation to improve the organizations. These were presented, passed, and signed into law in 2011.

The kicker:

Look at RCW and you will find it outlines the rights of the HOA as an organization. Nothing states the rights of individual homeowners. Check the link below. While most of this discusses AZ, many of the same laws exist nationwide.

http://pvtgov.org/pvtgov/downloads/hoa_myth.pdf

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.dipnoid.com/2009/12/7-ridiculous-homeowners-association-hoa-rules/

More stupid stuff from HOAs.

I will admit, there are advantages to an HOA. But I believe they aren't worth the cost.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana, I don't know much about HOA's, just enough to know I wouldn't want any part of one.

There is a part of the east side of my neighborhood that is a HOA.
They are given a color palette, of colors they are allowed to have the home painted, if the next door neighbor chooses the color you like, tough! you choose another. They tell you when to re-roof your home and who you can use to do the job. If you like to BBQ and spend time on your patio or deck, after they are done they have to store the BBQ in the garage.
No fences, you can not plant any flowers/shrubs/trees without the permission of the committee. No working on or washing your vehicles, kids toys/bikes must be kept out of site, trash /recycle bins must be kept in the garage.
If you have company, they must park in the areas provided, they can not park at your home. When home they must keep the cars in the garage.
Only good thing I know of those I know whom live there is the yard maintenance is done for them, so no need for lawn mowers or water hoses.

ELISI — August 18, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal



**Republican Voter Suppression Campaign Rolls Back Early Voting**

Early voting started off a wildly popular, bipartisan element of voting reform. Indeed, of all the voting reforms this country has seen over the last decades, early voting is easily the most unassailable. It makes voting more convenient for the public and makes Election Day easier for election officials. Because it generally happens at board of elections offices, it takes notoriously unreliable volunteer poll workers out of the picture.

But Republican leaders cooled on the idea after 2008. "It just so happened that this was the first time that early voting had been used in large numbers to mobilize African American and Latino voters," said Wendy Weiser, who directs the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.

After the GOP won control of many statehouses in 2010, rolling back early voting became a top legislative priority. That meant reducing the period for early in-person voting in Florida from 14 to 8 days, and in Ohio, from 35 to 11. And no voting on Sunday before the election.

"I try to be an objective observer," said professor Paul Gronke, who runs the nonpartisan Early Voting Information Center at Reed College in Oregon. "But the objective facts indicate there seem to be partisan motivations behind the ratcheting back of early in-person voting."

Research by an Ohio voter advocacy group found that blacks made up more than half the early in-person voters in 2008, compared with about a quarter of people who vote on Election Day or by mail.

"We should be increasing access to vote, not taking it away," said Ohio state Sen. Nina Turner, a Cleveland Democrat. "You got a lot of working people, working-class folks, some people have to piece together three to four jobs, why wouldn't we have extended hours and extended days?"

The question ultimately answers itself. "For me, this is Jim Crow in the 21st century," Turner said. "Jim Crow has been resurrected. This is by design. It's not by accident."

Republican explanations for rolling back early voting include unsupported suggestions of voter fraud.

read more @

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/republican-voter-suppression-early-voting_n_1766172.html

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Huffpost, eh...

Can't tell who some people find as credible sources, can we???

..

I heard something the other day that Paul Ryan had said...and it truly made me crack up as I totally agreed with him. He said

***Hope and Change has become Attack and Blame!!!***

Say it ain't so, Paul!

Hmm...well after reading most blogs, articles and whatnots...

It's so!

sigh...!!!

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Dana. I'll be checking the links out. By the sound of things near ELISI's home, it's a GOOD reason to avoid buying homes in HOA neighborhoods. I"m glad I'm not in the market for a new home. If I was...I'd be checking out rural property anyways. Now when HOA gets involved in rural property, then we're in trouble.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Pulitzer prize winning Huffington Post Generally reposts AP, Reuters, WSJ, etc. when it comes to news. Like I've said before, it doesn't matter to you guys who are far right what the source is. Vilifying a news agency helps to blur those lines! :) I haven't looked them over this week, but I imagine my Huffington Post links comprise less than 50% of my links. I'll try to post more Huff P to make it up.

But please go, feel free to dispute any thing you find that is not correct.

When the message holds up, I guess undermining the source is all some have.

It's all "lamestream media", right???

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


..doing a little researcch on civil authority ammo...

FBI uses .40 std, training and frangible, not hollow point

DeeLittle — August 18, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


From Mahers season opening show...hilarious! Voter ID picks up at about 2:30 and takes up rest of the time.

**Bill Maher: Voter ID Yet Another 'Tricky, Racist Law' (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/bill-maher-voter-id-yet-another-tricky-racist-law_n_1803319.html

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One of many articles involving several Universities doing research as to how people become misinformed of today's political events involving mainstream news sources. This one displaying data from the University of Maryland. They all point to the dumbing down of those who depend on Fox News as their primary source. From 2010. Perhaps since Glenn Beck left Fox they are doing a bit better, but I highly doubt it!!! :))) Where are those FEMA concentration camps???

**Voters Say Election Full of Misleading and False Information**

**Poll Also Finds Voters Were Misinformed on Key Issues**

The poll also found significant differences depending how people voted. Those who voted Republican were more likely than those who voted Democratic to believe that: most economists have concluded that the health care law will increase the deficit (voted Republican 73%, voted Democratic 31%); the American economy is still getting worse (72% to 36%); the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (67% to 42%); most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (62% to 26%); and it is not clear that Obama was born within the United States (64% to 18%)

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (8 points more likely), most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points), the economy is getting worse (26 points), most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points), the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points), their own income taxes have gone up (14 points), the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points), when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points) and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points). The effect was also not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser margin than those who voted Republican.

read more @ (it also lends a bit to Dems believing a few items that are off base)

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php?nid=&id;=&pnt;=671&lb;=

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's amusing on one hand to see Romney/Ryan skew their positions with Medicare to deceive and deflect. On the other hand so many are easily misled, or embrace misleading ads because conservative social issues mean so much to them nothing else matters.

Decent ad from the Obama Campaign...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb6tA...

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal



DBW @ 1:22- There is so much info from countless credible new sites concerning this subject/your questions. Amazing how front and center this has become on the right since the 2008 elections, and these new laws being introduced in republican controlled states. People really need to have an honest conversation with themselves about this subject. As one who tends to vote the democratic ticket, I would be appalled with the Dem party if they were doing this.

Hope these sites bring you some answers to your questions posted.

Is this what America has become? Is this what the founding fathers envisioned?

http://www.aarp.org/aarp-foundation/our-work/info-08-2012/democracy-turned-upside-down-voter-id.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/79103.html

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


lolololol...

Nailingit, you're funny today. Me...far right???? Oh, that's a knee slappin', belly laughin' joke if I'd ever heard one.

Okay, granted they do carry articles by other entities...but do you really find articles like Paul Ryan without a shirt while on vacation as newsworthy?

Just a bit of history on just who runs the Huff Post. Of course you know the person who runs the site, Arianna's her name...married (and divorced) to REPUBLICAN Michael Huffington and failed in her run as an Independent candidate for governor of California in 2003. Before that, in the 1990's she was a conservative commentator and soon adopted the liberal political views. So let's see...she supported Republicans, was a conservative, turned liberal, member of an extremist sect.....

BTW, did you know she was also a disciple of Baghwan Shree Rajneesh's little group, "Rajneeshpuram" in central Oregon??? Yep! The same group that poisoned residents of the Wasco County in the Columbia River Gorge in order to keep voters home so that members of the Rajneeshpuram would win the election.

Hmmm...

Voter fraud of the worst kind, wouldn't you say???

Seems to me the lady does quite a flip flop in her political views...is cited as being a member of an internationally-recognized terror group...

At least Glenn Beck in his days of flip flopping, wasn't a member of an extremist terror group. (okay...that was a dig...I still can't stand the guy)

er...

yeah...

Nailingit, you support whatever news source you wish. For me...regarding Huffypoo...

Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather go right to the source of the news...the initial reporting agency. I'm not about to show support for huff 'n fluff.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And Nailingit...feel free to do the research on anything I've said. It's all there on the internet, waiting for you to verify.

Lamestream media??? In that case....

YES!

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- Would you please source your information about this Huffington/Rajneeshpuram connection? Something mainstream and accepted by most. i.e. Time/Newsweek/a leading newspaper/US News & World Report/NBC/ABC/CBS news, something like that?

Thanks!

A call to anyone in case go has trouble with this project. Anyone???

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


go- Considering you go "right to the source of the news...the initial reporting agency.", who is the credible source of your talking point/accusation???

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, Nails, now you did it - with the Metallica video.

My older son used to hang/jam with this band from Phoenix (Sacred Reich) when they were starting up back in the early '80s. He left for PA, to join some soon to be defunct punk band. These guys became one of the better early thrash bands. And, as with this one, they had a political message to most of their music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOg4bD...

roger — August 18, 2012 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Accusations???

Naw...it's part of her history - something she cannot hide from.

Nailingit, I could give you a list of "credible" resources, but then again...any resource I state, you'll find something wrong with it so it's best for you to try to locate them yourself. It's there. All you have to do is look. BTW, check out information which includes Bernard Levin, her ex...and when they were together. It right around the '80s. Now bear in mind, Nailingit, you might come across links like Wikipedia which describe the Rajneesh movement and her connection to it. I'll admit, they caught my attention, but my curiosity grew stronger so I looked for what I would term as credible links and they are out there.

To give you a bit of further help, I'll give you a little hint. Osho, aka aka Chandra Mohan Jain...is also known as the late Baghwan Shree Rajneesh. There's even a site dedicated to Osho. Now if you would like to continue to research the information...in order to find that "credible" source, tie in Osho with Bernard Levin and Arianna...and you will find the information...maybe even a picture or two.

Have fun!!!

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, I went out to "the ranch" one time. Seems the Baghwan was getting yet another truck load of Rolls Royce autos. They were stacked inside a trailer (4 each) and the dirt road they were driving down was a little washed out on one side and the truck fell over. I was called out to set the truck back on it's wheels. After we got it back on all 18, the big guy refused delivery and sent the truck back. I got paid in cash because my boss told me not to leave without it. That was a day I won't ever forget.

hawkeye — August 18, 2012 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, I looked a little and found your hero is one of the "mouths that roared" about Arianna and the Baghwan. Yup, ya gotta believe Michael Savage! In any other country in the world, that guy would have been shot by now. I believe him as much as I believe Paul Ryan is an abortion doctor.

hawkeye — August 18, 2012 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, who's Michael Savage? Someone I've never heard of is my "hero???"

Actually, I started reading...reluctantly...Wikipedia. I decided to check out the obits on Levin and found information which reflected the data on Wikipedia. I also found it on other sites as well including an Osho website which stated Bernard Levin had followed Osho for quite some time - he idolized the man, then joined the "Ranch" with his girlfriend at the time...guess who!?!?

It's easy to deny something which you don't want to believe but the history is in fact, there.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Looking at your links. So there are seniors that don't have ID? How did they apply for SS bens? Are there no ID requirements? If that is the case, then perhaps I need to go apply, there doesn't seem to be any measures in place to prevent fraud via identity theft.

And 9.2% of elligible voters in PA do not have ID? They never make purchases with a debit/credit card? If they do, everyone may want to reconsider the places they shop. Apparently there are a lot of places that don't verify ID when making a purchase. I am sure we have thieves interested in knowing where these places are.

And now, from one of your links:

Pennsylvania Democratic Party Chairman Jim Burn said the new law “smacks of backroom politics and a Republican political agenda in an attempt to try and cheat.”

That is what I mean. It wasn't a big deal until someone realized they can stir up masses against one side that will help their side in this election.

Smoke and mirrors.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

go-llible!!!

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 8:57 p.m.

I'm pretty sure nail was talking about "photo ID". For SSI, you need a birth certificate, not photo ID. If you ever noticed, SSI cards don't have pictures on them, only drivers licenses and CWPs. As you know, there are many seniors that do not drive. Why would they have picture ID otherwise?

GO, If you ever want to make your blood boil, turn on the old AM radio and find Mr. Savage. To me, he is about three times worse than Rush.

As for Mr. Levin following this Osho guy, are you going to tell me that if your now husband was following some guy and wanted you to come along, you wouldn't? Think about it.

hawkeye — August 18, 2012 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*As for Mr. Levin following this Osho guy, are you going to tell me that if your now husband was following some guy and wanted you to come along, you wouldn't? Think about it.*

So what you are saying here is that Ms. Arianna couldn't make her own decisions concerning spiritual matters? She's just a follower?

So her time as a conservative was just following her then husband?

That leads me to think her shift to liberalism/progressivism is just to go in the opposite direction away from Mr. Huffington. Not truly believing in the cause.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO-

Crash course in HOA formation:

A developer owns a patch of land and decides it's time to build houses. As the land is parceled into lots for building, deeds are created. The developer writes Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions, which is viewed in some legal circles as a contract. These CC&Rs; are attached to the deed on file at the county assessors office. (CC&Rs; are the template for the HOA bylaws and rules).

So as the land is built upon, and the properties are sold, the buyers also agree (perhaps unwittingly) to the CC&Rs.; The board of directors is formed. The developer, as long as there is any piece of the land that they haven't yet sold, is considered an owner within the HOA, and has rights within the organization as such. That means the developer can be represented on the Board (yes, the board is elected by members, but like any election, money for campaigning is a factor, and the developer has it).

Like ELISI said, the HOA can tell you when you need something done on your home (she stated roofing) and dictate who can do the work. So if the developer in on the Board, think they may have an interest on who does the work?

Just more food for thought.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 8:22- Did you spot Arianna? :)

If there was the tiniest bit of truth to this her right wing competitors would tear the Huff Post apart. Amazing what some buy into. Not even the National Review will acknowledge such trash!

That dikipedia...quite the credible source! :))

gollible- I needed a good laugh tonight. I'm sorry it was at the expense of a forum dweller. Not only will you believe any far out twisted right wing conspiracy theory, but you will never admit when you are so obviously wrong.

Now go read Savages latest write. I'm sure you know where to find it. Through Beck's "Blaze" garbage. At what point will you begin a truthful conversation???

DBW- You don't care about this. The truth is so obvious any half wit can see it. You care utmost about your conservative social agenda and will sacrifice anything for it. Quite the culture warrior! You make Bill O proud I'm sure.

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I don't waste my time with blowhards on the radio or television any more. It makes my head spin.

As for your parallelism between me and Ms. Arianna...she wasn't married to Levin. I'm married. Not exactly a parallel. As far as me following my husband...

Sir...you've got a lot to learn about the strength of love and a healthy marriage. It's not any kind of life where only the man makes the decisions. It's open discussions, weighing the pros and cons...working together to come to an agreement and a solution and accepting the outcome. Besides...my husband isn't a follower of other men so this issue wouldn't even be on the table.

Nice try, though.

You know, I find it funny that after I'd pointed out the obvious flip flop of her political views, that you guys would focus on old news about her past...as though you hadn't a clue. Or is it the fact that the originator of one of your "trusted" news sources isn't so trustworthy.

Of course you know about her support of Romney on multiple issues including his mandate for health insurance???

Ever hear of OnTheIssues.org ??? Well, if you go to the website and click on "governors" then click on California, you will find her on the list under former candidates and officeholders. Then you can see exactly where she stands on just about everything. For that matter...anybody else in the political world.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DWB

"So what you are saying here is that Ms. Arianna couldn't make her own decisions concerning spiritual matters? She's just a follower?"

*Maybe so, you are.*

"So her time as a conservative was just following her then husband?"

*Who knows, maybe you should ask her.*

Anyway DWB, that was WAYYYY before your time, why do you care? You know what Paul said, "Live and let die".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZdsIj...

hawkeye — August 18, 2012 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Hot! Great lead. Good vid. I wonder if Reagan, Swaggert and Tammy Faye knew what an inspiration they were to a generation! :)

I saw Metallica in the mid 90's. Alice in Chains were supposed to play on the ticket but they cancelled due to Layne Staley not being able to handle his junk. We lost a good one in Layne. Alice in Chains were brilliant in my opinion, and one of my all time favorite bands. Metallica opened their act with lights out playing riffs to Man in a Box....after a couple minutes (everyone wondering if AIC showed up afterall) they turned the lights up and Hetfield yells F' Alice in Chains!! They proceeded to play for three plus hours and absolutely rocked the 20,000 + stadium crowd!

Suicidal Tendencies opened up then Candlebox played before Metallica. Candlebox played one of the best voodoo child jams I've ever heard.

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Your right, I don't really care about this. I just wanted to poke fun. Afterall how better to continue my patterns of waste, right?

Conservative Social Agenda? I suppose that could be true, though I do have some opinions that make other conservatives squirm. I suppose that my "social agenda" can be summed up this way:

Let's get back to personal responsibility.

While it is good to have the safety net when one needs help, I feel it is too often abused, and limits must be set. But today, a lot of people see the safety net, and how liberally it is provided, they can act without thought to consequences. After all, big brother government will help without question. So, those of us that are behaving responsibly get to carry the careless ones on our backs. If we try to shrug them off, we get branded as attacking the poor, the young, seniors, minorities.

So yes, I guess I do have an agenda. Who doesn't?

I have only covered one point, as you all know, I have many. Maybe we can compile them someday. I do ask that you don't nail, I know you will put your own choice of words in there that will have no real resemblence to what I am saying.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...it is the inquisition by you, wanting to know more about her past with BSR rather than discussing the fact that she has flip flopped in politics for convenience...whenever the time was right. I've proven that although she claims to be liberal, she still supports Repubs...Romney in fact...with a credible source, yet you throw out the insults, trying to diminish what is obvious.

She's done a good job trying to hide the truth...well, sort of...the same woman whose attorneys paid off the attorneys for Maria Callas in a case involving plagiarism and a certain book. Oh wait...is that one a Savage write, too??? Nope. Double checked. His name isn't on this one.

Ahhh...but you think I'm the gullible one.

Nice laugh, Nail. You will stop at nothing to try to discredit what I speak...thinking I'm some hard-lined Republican off in right field JUST because of the information I have shared...which still cracks me up. And as I've told Hawkeye...I've never heard of this Savage guy. Sounds like another wind bag not worth my time. Never saw him on the links I read.

What happened to that inquisitive mind of yours, nail??? It's obvious you have no problems searching and posting links to articles so why can't you find the ones I found??? Must be you didn't look hard enough. If this little ol' grannie could find them, I'm sure you could too.

So nailingit...do you still consider huff po as a credible source? That's been the whole basis of this discussion since I teased you at 11:42am.

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So guys...when are you going to realize we're all human beings with differing opinions which from what I see to be the case in our nation which folks like yourselves have fought to protect...that it is still a free country to express our opinions...

...and when are you going to realize that one person's fact may not be fact by another...as long as it doesn't coincide with your assumptions?

Glad I could show you how easy it is to try to discredit what you read online...especially when it is so much easier to deny written history, given it was written by those who perceived their information as fact in the first place. The only way prove anything online is through documentation...something that isn't always available to the public.

Lesson ended.

(Dang...and it took extra time out of my evening to get you boyz to this point, too...8)))

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Before my time?

OK, I may not be as seasoned as some on here, but there are things that happened when I was younger that I did take notice of.

I remember hearing of the Rajneesh Puram. Did some research. Scary. Made me think of Jonestown.

But hey, I guess I am just a pup since I wasn't there for the first lunar landing.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is it about Saturday night basement vids! They rock! Thanks hawkeye. Haven't heard Sir Paul for awhile. The basement beats FB side all to hell! :)

go..*thinking I'm some hard-lined Republican off in right field JUST because of the information I have shared...*

Naw. I just think you're kinda messed up. Thanks for the input!

A shout out to WA's AIC. May Layne rest in peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZS8S...

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 10:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Danabwoodley...you have an agenda???

I do too. It's called...turning off the computer for the evening, kick back and relax and look forward to some shuteye after a nice cup of warm milk.

And *THAT* doesn't need a credible link to verify!!!

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 10:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kinda messed up???

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you! See...we sometimes DO think alike, lolololol!

Have a good evening, nailingit. It's been to say the least....interesting. (And keep looking for those links. They're there...and they're not attached to any political group as far as I know. You just have to dig a little further, much like in government websites, lol.)

goldenoldie — August 18, 2012 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry GO, but I do.

But like any other agenda, there are those out there who live to find fault in any that aren't carbon copies of themselves. Diversity is wonderful, unless you disagree, then shut them down.

It's too bad you are shutting down. I got hours ahead of me, and lots to catch up on. May choose to place comments on here following every piece I go over.

That should provide plenty of fuel to everyone on here.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Paul Ryan Defended Stimulus -- When George W. Bush Wanted It In 2002 (VIDEO)**

WASHINGTON - When Congressman Paul Ryan has been asked the past few years about the value of stimulus to the sagging economy and the nation's jobless, the Wisconsin Republican has dismissed it as meaningless, and dubbed it "sugar-high economics."

But that's when President Obama is pushing for the spending. When it was President George W. Bush arguing for more stimulus to boost a slow economy in the early 2000s, Ryan's economic analysis was entirely different.

"What we're trying to accomplish today with the passage of this third stimulus package is to create jobs and help the unemployed," Ryan said, in comments unearthed by MSNBC's "Up with Chris Hayes" and provided to HuffPost. "What we're trying to accomplish is to pass the kinds of legislation that when they've passed in the past have grown the economy and gotten people back to work."

Video of the comments will be aired at 8:00 a.m. Sunday on MSNBC.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/paul-ryan-bush-stimulus_n_1803761.html

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DBW- *I got hours ahead of me, and lots to catch up on. May choose to place comments on here following every piece I go over.*

I hope you're on your own time. Otherwise...................................................

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 10:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes nail, my own time.

If you would only scrutinize the Presidents budget spending habits like you watch my online usage.

danabwoodley — August 18, 2012 at 11:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DBW- Hope this helps you understand Prez Obama's "spending habits". **;)**

Politifact checked the numbers and agreed: “Using raw dollars, Obama did oversee the lowest annual increases in spending of any president in 60 years,” they write. “Using inflation-adjusted dollars, Obama had the second-lowest increase -- in fact, he actually presided over a decrease.” Here’s Nutting’s graph:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-reality-behind-obama-and-bushs-spending-binge/2012/05/25/gJQAK8ItpU_blog.html

nailingit — August 18, 2012 at 11:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cadbY...

Masters of the Universe!

(At least on this planet :)

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal



OK. So I won't sit there and try to argue with all the "adjusted for inflation" and "raw dollars" (not clear who cooks their money anyway). BUT...

Bush tax cuts-
At the time they were passed, we were operating on a balanced/surplus budget weren't we? (Clinton legacy everyone wants to tout) So if were were taking in more than was required, then cutting taxes provided a bit of relief for taxpayers (all of them whether you like it or not). This could provide conditions that allows more spending by the public, thus increasing business revenues (more taxed from them), and employment/wages to workers (more taxed from them).

I also think that people wrongly view this as an expenditure. You weren't spending the money. How could you spend it if you never took it in in the first place? Very misleading.

Iraq and Afghanistan-

True, Pres Bush oversaw a majority of the execution of these operations, no question about it. But didn't they continue into the Obama administration as well? Where are the costs for these during the Obama years? Did he have no say at all for the spending from FY 10 to present? Just like the Pres is trying to do everywhere else, let's spread the wealth.

TARP-

Yes, this was written, introduced, passed, and signed into law during the Bush administration. Not going to argue this point. I do find it humorous how convenient it is not to mention Pres Obama's support of that bill. He and McCain both took a time out from the campaign trail to go back to DC and work on the crafting and passage of the bill.

Automatic spending cuts-

The other cuts, yes, he signed the bills that made them happen. And yes he signed to the bill causing the automatic cuts over $500 billion. But these don't take effect until January. And there is not yet a garauntee that he will still be in office 18 days after they do take effect. I guess it will be a wait and see what the future holds as far as these cuts go.

Understand, I am not saying the figures are wrong. Just offering some perspective.

danabwoodley — August 19, 2012 at 2:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But hey, I guess I am just a pup since I wasn't there for the first lunar landing.*

i. hate. you.

not only was i watching the lift-off, i'd seen the monkey in space the russians launched, the assisnation of pres kennedy AND his brother, and participated in the civil rights movements.

yeah, i know. *BEFORE YOUR FREAKING TIME.* HRMPH !

DeeLittle — August 19, 2012 at 3:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry Dee, but the last great event that I missed was the Nixon resignation.

danabwoodley — August 19, 2012 at 3:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — August 19, 2012 at 3:19 a.m.

You left out "The British Invasion" (Beatles and others), King's murder and the subsequent riots, the '67 Democrat Convention and those riots, Vietnam body counts on TV every night, the "Summer of Love", and a host of other things.

We certainly grew up during some momentous times. Don't know about you, but even though my body is wearing out and hurts much of the time, I still wouldn't trade those days for anything.

Note to Drift - And our dope was better too. Maybe not as potent, but a lot more fun!! Acapulco Gold, Oaxacan and Michoacan from Mexico, Jamaican from the Blue Mountain area, Columbian Gold, Panama Red (or Columbian Red Bud).

roger — August 19, 2012 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


deelittle-As I've pointed out before, your early writes in this forum also state as a chid you witnessed blacks being dragged behind cars and tortured, (elisi makes the same claim) and a few weeks later declaring to someone (when talking about driving on freeways) you were a native of sunny southern California and grew up navigating their freeway system. Vacation time in the South???

Maybe you had crazy's problem of a multitude of people using the handle "crazy" when posting. :) :)) :)))

While I'm talking about absurd comments...

go- Why would you expect anyone to source another's accusations when that person thinks they're ridiculous? (as you have with me regarding Huffington's involvement with a "terrorist cult"???

Kinda like someone exclaiming the world is flat. Then when someone disagrees they expect them to research in order to validate their ridiculous claim.

Come up with any sources that back up your claim about Huffington/terrorist group yet?

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Dope wasn't better, just the times combined with mindset! I remember the Acapulco Gold. Those were the days...

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I remember a "three finger" bag going for ten bucks. Down along the border a kilo went for 110. When the U.S. started spraying the Mexican fields with paraquat that all went down the toilet. Mexican pot was "poison." Therefore the more expensive varieties gained a foothold on the market.

Today there are thousands of hybrids.

Drift — August 19, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Washington Post: Mitt Romney Tax Plan 'Garbage'**

The Washington Post's editorial board mocked Mitt Romney's tax plan on Sunday.

"Mitt Romney, the presumed Republican nominee for president, promises to lower everyone’s income tax rate without reducing revenue. This sounds terrific. Why didn’t we think of it sooner?"

The editorial, titled 'Mitt Romney's garbage', argued that Romney's plan to cut taxes and lower the deficit is unfeasible.

"It’s reasonable to assume that his cuts would, as did President Bush’s, worsen the nation’s deficit. Until he’s willing to explain how he would avoid such a result, he has little standing to criticize Mr. Obama’s fiscal shortcomings."

The piece also took issue with Romney's claim that his plan to cut taxes by 20% for everyone helps the middle class and not the rich.

A recent study found that Romney's plan would mostly benefit the wealthiest Americans. Romney called the findings "garbage."

"You can’t simultaneously lower tax rates, take in as much money as before and protect the middle class," the Post editorial board wrote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/washington-post-mitt-romney-tax-plan_n_1806388.html

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal



A great Sunday morning read...

**Confessions of an Ex-Priest: How Catholic Seminary Forms Victims of Sexual Abuse and Perpetrators to Forgive**

On Sunday night around midnight, in the small town of Woodburn, Ore., a 12-year-old boy ran down a street screaming for help. A man dressed only in his underwear pursued him. The boy saw a group of people standing in a driveway and screamed, "Help me, a guy is chasing me." The bystanders drove the boy to his sister's home, where he explained, "Father Angel touched me in my privates."

This sounds like a scene out of a film, but this is not fiction. This is information taken from the Woodburn police department's probable cause statement.

On Monday, Rev. Angel Armando Perez was arrested. He faces allegations of first-degree sexual abuse, furnishing alcohol to a minor, using a child in display of sexually explicit conduct, and driving under the influence.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-rastrelli/confessions-of-an-ex-priest-how-catholic-seminary-forms-victims-of-sexual-abuse-and-perpetrators-to-forgive_b_1785609.html

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


MOSCOW (AP) — Some Russian activists have sued Madonna for millions of dollars, claiming they were offended by her support for gay rights during a recent concert in St. Petersburg.

Anti-gay sentiment is strong in Russia. In St. Petersburg, a law passed in February makes it illegal to promote homosexuality to minors, and the author of that law has pointed to the presence of children as young as 12 at Madonna's concert on Aug. 9.

The complaint includes a video taken at the concert showing Madonna stomping on an Orthodox cross and asking fans to raise their hands to show the pink armbands in support of gays and lesbians that were distributed among the audience, the new agency reported.

***How do you think this one will come out?***

http://news.yahoo.com/madonna-sued-russia-supporting-gays-115353017.html

hawkeye — August 19, 2012 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- Most likely Madonna will sign a few autographs and call it even. These Commies are pretty extreme!

**Pussy Riot trial gives Russia 'the image of a medieval dictatorship'**

Even some of Putin's supporters are aghast at the penal term handed out to the feminist punks. Amid a global storm of protest, signs have emerged that they might be released early – but a deep national rift remains

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/18/pussy-riot-russia-global-protest?newsfeed=true

Absolutely intolerant! Maybe they should hook up with some stateside Baggers....oops!!

http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/14/international-protest-groups-take-up-tea-party-flag-in-moscow-tel-aviv-and-the-hague/

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A Sunday afternoon offering. Interview is fascinating!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vakx58...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGindX...

Live 70's improv Jam. The duo only met a short time before and could not speak each others language. So they communicated in broken english. Akkerman said afterwards Lucia had the technique of a God and that he felt like he hed been run over by a Jet plane !

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to seem plagiaristic, "Live 70's improv" foreword by "Uploaded by hulldanfan on Mar 29, 2007"

I try to dot my 'eyes' & + my 'tea's' in here.....:)

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 8:43 a.m

Growing up with a military dad, yes I lived in many different states. Born in Texas, by the way, lived in many of the southern states and Michigan until in my early teens.
Yes, I even lived in Ca for 2 yrs since my husband was also military and was stationed there at 2 different bases. Plus I have two brothers, nieces and nephews and their families that also live in Ca. I have even lived in every state that is considered the PNW and then some.

Yes, I still to this day have family that live in the south, last time I visited was about 3-4 yrs ago when my oldest brother and I spent a few months there tracing our family. You know, like an Ancestry.com thing.

So now, do you want to continue to try and discredit me with snide remarks?.. must make you feel quite the man to try and do so.
If you have never lived the the southern states up through the 60's you haven't a clue, only what you have read or what the media tells you.

ELISI — August 19, 2012 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Does anyone on here ever go to the English Gardens winery?
If so I would like some info on it if possible. New neighbors are asking about wineries in the area.

Also I could use info on the personalities of beagles. We have a chance to possibly get one, would like to know if they'd be a good fit with our schnauzer.

ELISI — August 19, 2012 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*So now, do you want to continue to try and discredit me with snide remarks?*

??? Just mentioned it. A little touchy! But good read.

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 13, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.

I've mentioned the basement to Stevie Matthieu (sp?) before; no idea whether she's ever showed here under an assumed name.

Today I mentioned it to Robert Dean - someone Lew Waters calls Professor. Quite conservative, but rational arguments. He took exception to my comment on Madore's religion, and demanded that I show how Madore's differs from Boldt's. After answering, I noted he's been sounding remarkably like Mr. Basil, what with wanting references for everything. He says he's got no idea who we are, but Mr. Basil must be a very intelligent person.

So....

roger — August 19, 2012 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


elisi- A peace offering! This dang internet is somethin' else!

http://englishestatewinery.com/

http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/beagle

*The Beagle is a happy, inquisitive, shorthaired hound who makes a great family companion, an eager hunter in the field--or both!*

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 19, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.

I'd say Madonna is lucky she didn't do some jail time for stomping on the Russian Orthodox cross.

roger — August 19, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- You never know! We'll have to ask mr_basil_seal when he returns.

I appreciate your well thought post about religion/politics. If I were posting over there and attempted same most likely I would have been drug behind a car by now. Much different than 'getting stoned' for it! :)

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK Nails - How about Carlos Santana and John McLaughlin? Remember the Love Devotion Surrender album from '73?

Here's a reunion at Montreaux a few years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X4UOVzFfBI

roger — August 19, 2012 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This guy isn't just Hee Haw. There was an album out years ago, of Roy playing with the master - Andres Segovia. Roy held his own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxDQQD...

roger — August 19, 2012 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.

You asked *"Why would you expect anyone to source another's accusations when that person thinks they're ridiculous?"*

My response...it happens all the time in our court system. I have provided information which is readily available on the internet. Yes, some of the links available might not have the greatest reputation, but those and others had credible information through links which supported my comments...links which you haven't proven the information contained as being false. It is your job as someone who denies my comments to show burden of proof that the statements are incorrect. For now, the ball is in your court to prove what I stated was incorrect. Not through allegations, not through insults...but through data which reflects otherwise. I haven't seen that yet. So when you can provide credible data which states she was NOT a follower of BSR, looks like we're in a stalemate, wouldn't you say???

You also said *"Come up with any sources that back up your claim about Huffington/terrorist group yet?"*

Just for your information...she also claimed she left the movement before you know what hit the fan with BSR. I *never said she had a direct involvement with the domestic terrorist act in Wasco County.* You might recheck my post on August 18, 2012 at 5:37 p.m and the following posts in this discussion. It appears you made that assumption, not I. I only said she had an affiliation with the movement run by BSR...the same movement involved in Voter Fraud and other criminal behavior which was deemed a domestic terror attack to the people of Wasco County. I found that interesting information...something which to me, raises red flags on just what it is she stands for and who she represents...and it's obvious, she's still searching.

And nailingit, I've found several links today alone, including biographies and interviews on her back in her earlier days. It's really not that hard to find. As I've said...the ball is in your court to do your part if you're game. Care to disprove what I have brought to the table?

goldenoldie — August 19, 2012 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Great vids! Speaking of Carlos. If you've never read this interview check it out. The most fascinating & inspirational words I've ever read from a musician. Hands down!

[a small excerpt]

Fear only has one agenda—to negate your beauty and your truth. Ego only has one agenda—to create death, destruction, and failure. That’s the only function of the ego. We should compliment it, because at least it’s predictable. E-g-o stands for “Etch God Out.” But even an atheist can understand the need for wonderment. You don’t have to believe in God. God believes in you. God could not care less if you call him Buddha, Allah, Jesus, or Krishna. The best part of you—that’s what God is, and it is in all of us. It’s called the spark of the divine.

Do you remember that scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey where the astronaut was being bombarded with all these colors? It’s like some type of Coltrane solo, or Jimi when he’s feeding back. That’s what we call the stream of consciousness—which is actually the state of grace, because all is one and one is all. The mind is not equipped to understand that, because the mind likes to compartmentalize. The heart just takes it all in.

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/multi-dimensional-miracles-carlos-santana-celebrates-the-power-of-intangibles/8888

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*It is your job as someone who denies my comments to show burden of proof that the statements are incorrect*

I don't have a job to do with anything you post goldenoldie. Your premise is bizarre. Make an accusation and place the onus upon another to disprove it rather than backing up your claim with factual data. Pure silliness.

Don't read the Huff Po links or anything else for that matter. I don't care. Just as a matter of ethics and acting responsible, I'd think you would source such a strange accusation. That's all.

There are human beings living beneath a faux layer of lunar dirt on the moon. It's where we send Frank Zappa's great great grandfather's offspring who live longer than 100 years. They ride tricycles with flat tires. They are called moon units on wheels. Flattery motivates them.

Prove I'm wrong.

Get the point?

nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 4:46 p.m

Thanks for the links, but,..I was actually looking for someone who is or has been a patron of the winery and an owner of a beagle/s.

Nothing like word of mouth..

ELISI — August 19, 2012 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good lord!

Does it really matter if Ms. Arianna was tide to BSR or not? Her site is just liberal drivel posing as legit news anyway. But if the sycophants want to refer to it as gospel, fine. Who are we to tell them not to?

And nail-

You are spending so much time arguing with someone else, I am getting jealous.

danabwoodley — August 19, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Howdy.
Dana, I don't consider HuffPost liberal drivel. I actually read it very rarely, say every three months for ten minutes and then I pick just a few well-written articles. They might have come from NYT, WP, or whatever. I like that it pulls in so many varied sources and act more like a central point to post.
Is it liberal? Yes. Does it post real news? Yes. Now if you do not like anything liberal, well then, just say so. You are entitled to be a conservative and only read what fits your opinion in the first place. Is it drivel? No.

I consider it much better to read both sides - so you can get to know everybody's thinking. Don't limit yourself. Open your mind.

Elisi: long time no chat. We have a beagle in the neighborhood. Actually, he spends every single day of his life with us. For some reason, he likes to run off in the morning and come straight over here (lots of acres and no fences make for happy free doggies. He is the funniest, friendliest, most hilarious dog and everybody loves him to death. He is also known as the neighborhood hoodlum as he likes to run off with everybody's toys and bones, even a baby bottle put down for a second. We tend to locate it all around the properties. Nobody ever stays angry at him as he is way too cute and way too sweet. Barely howls, only when it is time to chase a deer or a cat. Never barks. Totally friendly and non-aggressive with any dog that has ever come to visit (many do). So I say-a beagle is the greatest. He is the second one here and nobody ever had an issue with them. I say go for it.

luvithere — August 19, 2012 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

I do read from a variety of sources. I stated before that I look through the Early Bird as often as I am able. This is a compilation from a variety of sources (NYT, WP, CNN, FOX, etc.)

While the HP may have articles from some of these sources, they only show the one side. That is why I refer to it as drivel.

And no, I do not consider you a sycophant.

danabwoodley — August 19, 2012 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry-

I mean luv.

Speed reading sometimes has disadvantages.

danabwoodley — August 19, 2012 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/world/europe/assange-casts-himself-as-persecuted-whistle-blower.html?_r=1

OK. So this clown, who is not even a US citizen, thinks he is going to dictate how we handle our justice system?

Personally, I believe if he really had an interest in justice, he would come out of his refuge, and go face the charges in Sweden. Afterall, if he face the accusations and proved his innocence, he would have a better footing to talk of justice. Until then, he is a guilty man avoiding the consequences.

Thoughts?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 2:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""I'd say Madonna is lucky she didn't do some jail time for stomping on the Russian Orthodox cross."""

Roger, I'm not sure if the Russian Orthodox Church has the ability to "urge" the Russian Government to prosecute her for such an act. Besides, it's not the church entity who's watching. If I were her (and I thank God I am not), I'd be more concerned about the forces beyond any Earthly judgment. Only she will know what her "sentence" would be at that day of reckoning.

goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, Stevie Matthieu writes her comments eerily similar to someone who has posted here in the form many times but has been absent for several weeks. Not naming names, but you mentioned her name and I'm just making an observation.

goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 5:56 a.m. == "Roger, I'm not sure if the Russian Orthodox Church has the ability to "urge" the Russian Government to prosecute her for such an act."

Vlad Putin reportedly has very close ties to the Church - I think making noise about this is, in part, what got that girl punk band tossed in the slammer. (That and just practicing general boorishness - a habit of the top punk bands of the '70s; perhaps these girls were just paying homage to those that came before?)

roger — August 20, 2012 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Prove I'm wrong.""" (nailingit — August 19, 2012 at 7:19 p.m.)

You make this far too easy for me, nailingit. You speak nonsense. First of all, you have not given a starting point on the internet for me to review. I have told you that Wikipedia was my starting point which I decided to check further into their "information," as I know the credibility of the website is sometimes flawed...and I discovered yet another link with no attachment to Wikipedia which also included information stating Bernard Levin and his "then" girlfriend, Arianna joined the movement in the '80s and this strengthened my case. The links continued to reveal the same information...even one which has been plastered all over the search engine site I utilize...and the link was World News, an entity which has been highly praised for utilizing sources that support what appears to be your cause on the far left of the centralized zone of US politics. Is it that you do not want to research because you don't want to be proven wrong or is it that you just don't have the time?

You sir on the other hand, have not shared any data to research on your Frank Zappa story (which BTW, Wikipedia has quite an extensive write up on the man for which you would approve but then again, we're speaking of credibility) you want others to assume as fact without even that little starting point (link) which could be reviewed.

So where's your data to back up your statement?

And do you even have any data to back your statement?

And where's your data which disproves my statement on AH?

And why is it you have focused only on the movement I stated she belonged and not on the fact that she has chosen many political views including liberal views...all while supporting Mr. Romney's mandate on Medical Insurance?

You're not doing justice for your argument, nailingit.

goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I guess every nation has their limits and the girls were pushing theirs in Russia. It made too many people feel uneasy most likely.

goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO-

While I can understand that others are frustrating you, and you feel compelled to continue. But I repeat, does this really further anything?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Until then, he is a guilty man avoiding the consequences.

Thoughts?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 2:54 a.m.

Sure, DB. I find it ironic you would post a rant about "justice" to include a statement claiming a man's guilt sans trial.

That's danged funny, man. Heh!

Drift — August 20, 2012 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift-

Perception. That is how I perceive the situation. Yes I could be wrong. But just like everyone says about tax returns, fast and furious, college records: What do you have to hide?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*What is wrong with requiring an ID to vote?*

danabwoodley — August 16, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.

Look up the research. All the fraud.....

How many cases?

Now look up the number of potential voters becoming disenfranchised.

Now tell us why it became an issue NOW.

mr_basil_seal — August 20, 2012 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Claire McCaskill Reacts To Todd Akin's 'Legitimate Rape' Remarks**

The fallout has since moved beyond the confines of the Show Me State, becoming national news that has led to statements of rebuke from Senate candidates and even the Republican presidential ticket. The Democratic National Committee on Monday morning sent out an email attempting to tie Mitt Romney and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) to the issue, pointing out that "Ryan was one of more than 200 Republican cosponsors of a piece of legislation that would have narrowed the definition of rape."

McCaskill argued that Akin's statement was symptomatic of a larger GOP insensitivity toward women's health.

"Obviously, you look at the personhood amendment that both Todd Akin and Paul Ryan cosponsored," she said. "That goes much farther than most people realize. This is beyond just their desire to overturn Roe v. Wade, this is a desire to go further. It is refighting the contraception wars that my 84-year old mother fought.

"I was sitting with and visiting her the other day," McCaskill said. "She said, 'Sorry honey.' I said, 'What are you sorry about?' She said, 'I thought we took care of this. I thought we won.' ... I think that some people in the Republican Party, including Congressman Akin, would like to take us back to that age."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/claire-mccaskill-todd-akin-legitimate-rape_n_1810351.html

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ST. LOUIS (AP) — Missouri Congressman Todd Akin, a conservative Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate, said in an interview broadcast Sunday that women's bodies can prevent pregnancies in the case of "a legitimate rape," adding that conception in such cases is rare.

Akin, a six-term congressman running against incumbent Democrat Sen. Claire McCaskill, was asked in an interview on St. Louis television station KTVI if he would support abortions for women who have been raped.

"It seems to me first of all from what I understand from doctors that's really rare," Akin said. ***"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down,"*** Akin said of a rape victim's chances of becoming pregnant

***I was not aware of this, apparently women ARE in control more than I thought.***

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome back mr_basil_seal

*How many cases?*

*Now look up the number of potential voters becoming disenfranchised.*

*Now tell us why it became an issue NOW.*

A few that post here apparently don't care. Suppressing/disenfranchising millions of American voters under the faux pretext of catching a a small fraction of fraud is more than acceptable. They don't care about the elderly/veterans/minorities/etc. that might not have proper ID to exercise their right to vote.

What's happening in our country with regards to this matter is perhaps the biggest shame our country has ever witnesses concerning democracy.

All this, to push a radicalized social agenda. Why it's.....

Un american.

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 19, 2012 at 9:04 p.m

Thanks for the input on beagles! Only worry I have is the little guy getting out of the yard is we do live in a neighborhood with a lot of traffic. Neighborhood park across from us, just beyond that a grade school. Many parents drop kids off at the park and watch as the kids walk through to school.

Our schnauzer is a female Houdini...she finds an opening, she escapes! She is high energy and needs lots of "walks". Took us almost a yr to break her from digging holes...don't know if I am up to going through that again with another dog. I have heard beagle are notorious for digging.

ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now tell us why it became an issue NOW.

mr_basil_seal — August 20, 2012 at 8:20 a.m

It has been an issue for sometime now, ever since the Bush/Gore ticket and even the Bush/Kerry ticket. There were those that raised questions with those elections as they are now.

ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 8:40 a.m.

I think you are conflating two very different issues.

But if you have something that supports your line of thinking,.....

and capcha asks for "source"

mr_basil_seal — August 20, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 8:26 a.m

This is news to me! Wow if only it was THAT simple! geesh...some men haven't a clue about women...not meaning you of course Hawkeye.

Last I knew (did a tad bit of research on it a few yrs ago)
Pregnancy due to rape is about 1%. Incest ran close to 1% as well.

I am pro-life. I don't agree with abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. The "morning after" pill should be made available for those that fall into that 1% rape/incest cases.

I have said this before and will again, TOO many women use abortion as a form of birth control and that is just too wrong.
Some want to make abortion free to all, (not really free cause we'd all be paying for it). What about those who's beliefs are against abortion, why should they be made to pay someone to have one? This one is a very sticky situation, IMO it falls between separation of church and state.

Then on the other hand, why discuss this NOW? More important issues need a look at BEFORE the main election.

ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now I am off for awhile, errands to do and must stop by the roofing companies office, they didn't clean the tear off debris out of the gutters and there is a couple shingle buckled up I want replaced. Seems 2 phone calls to them hasn't gotten this taken care of so now to the office to speak to the owner is in order.

You all have a great day!

Oh and basil...

and capcha asks for "source"

mr_basil_seal — August 20, 2012 at 8:49 a.m.

???? captcha asks for source??? now that's funny!

ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 7:12 a.m.

Never fear...no frustration on my part, but you're right...

So why continue with it? I'm getting just about the same answers as I would talking to a piece of rain-drenched cardboard (...8)...).

Time to move on!!!

goldenoldie — August 20, 2012 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.

that was substantive....

And well timed......

When will we see what source informed your thinking?

mr_basil_seal — August 20, 2012 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — August 20, 2012 at 8:59 a.m

I too believe that abortion should not be used as birth control. I don't think it should be available after two months unless there is a threat to the mother. The reason I give it two months is sometimes it takes that long to A) find out that you are pregnant and B) decide if you want to keep it and all that entails.

These are my beliefs, I don't push it one anyone else, I just think it's fair.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama currently giving WH briefing. Taking questions...

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Conservatives. They're ruining our country, one vote at a time.

**Leading social conservatives rally to Akin's defense**

Posted by
CNN Political Reporter Peter Hamby

Tampa, Florida (CNN) – While much of the Republican universe spent Monday condemning Missouri Senate hopeful Todd Akin for his comments about "legitimate rape" and abortion, one of the nation's most prominent conservative organizations rallied to his defense.

Two top officials from the Family Research Council said the Missouri congressman is the target of a Democratic smear campaign and chided those Republicans who have condemned Akin.

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

Connie Mackey, who heads the group's political action committee, said the group "strongly supports" Todd Akin.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/20/leading-social-conservatives-rally-to-akins-defense/

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama administartion has put the CRC on the short list for the we can't wait initiative to fast track permits and other changes...Now if he will do the same come November and fast track out of office..This news coming from a president who has only fueled fear and Paranoia while instilling very little Inspiration... How odd this news is.

vanwadreamer — August 20, 2012 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — August 20, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.

How odd you are.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-
I will take that as a positive coming from you..I figured you would be the first to weigh in... You have no further comment on the actual issues oh exhaulted one??

vanwadreamer — August 20, 2012 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86SyZ1...

Good night Phyllis. You provided many of us with a lot of laughs for a lot of years.

Rest In Peace

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**How bad is the Ryan-Akin anti-abortion bill?**

“What it says is that a single cell can achieve all the protections the Constitution of the United States bestows on persons,” Slaughter said of the bill. “Scientifically the law is crazy.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-bad-is-the-ryan-akin-anti-abortion-bill/2012/08/20/c7e37e04-eafe-11e1-9ddc-340d5efb1e9c_blog.html

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Mitt Romney Taxes Enriched Foreign Governments At U.S. Expense**

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney sought and received $787,455 in foreign tax credits from the U.S. Treasury to cover his tax payments to other nations in 2008.

While there is no evidence that his actions violated the law, abuse of the foreign tax credit has been a problem for the Internal Revenue Service. The agency has prosecuted a number of international fraud cases in the last few years involving such credits. And the size of Romney's claim in 2008 raises questions about the sources of his foreign income.

While there is no evidence that Romney broke the law, American taxpayers have set up illegal sham transactions involving foreign taxes in recent years to dupe the IRS. Such transactions can involve multiple taxpayers claiming the credit for the same foreign income or one taxpayer claiming multiple tax credits for the same foreign income. Individual taxpayers have also claimed credits for foreign taxes that they never actually paid.

Much of Romney's foreign banking activity is also shrouded in secrecy. He has not released a 2010 tax form that details his foreign bank account holdings. He has, however, disclosed the existence of a Swiss bank account. Such accounts are prized by global elites for Swiss banks' extreme levels of secrecy, which has allowed thousands of American taxpayers to shield offshore income from the IRS by stashing it in Swiss accounts. There is no evidence that Romney broke the law with his Swiss account.

But Romney's large foreign tax credit in 2008 was unusual. Many wealthy individuals who engage in aggressive tax planning choose to park foreign income in tax-free jurisdictions. Romney and Bain Capital, for instance, made extensive use of Cayman Island accounts. The U.S. Treasury, moreover, caps the foreign tax credit at whatever the U.S. tax rate would be on the income in question. Any additional foreign taxes can be "carried forward" and receive a tax credit in future years. Because Romney exceeded the foreign tax credit limit in 2008, he received additional credits based on his 2008 income in 2009 and 2010.

"What does he have that's generating all that foreign income?" Wilkins asked.

Read more @ the pulitzer prize winning Huff Po! :)))

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/mitt-romney-foreign-tax-credit_n_1812507.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"This news coming from a president who has only fueled fear and Paranoia"

vanwadreamer — August 20, 2012 at 12:08 p.m

OK, odd one, where do you get this fear and paranoia from? You selling what you're smokin? So full of it. Oh, I see now, you're afraid of a powerful black man. Better get back down to the basement and hide cause they is comin fo ya.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil-

I know the number of voting fraud cases is low. I am not going to argue that point.

Voters being disenfranchised? Why? There are a number of things that require showing an ID to do (legally at least). So these people that are being "disenfranchised" apparently didn't have to show their ID to get unemployment/welfare benefits? Social Security benefits? Work, even if it is fast food?

But following the logic presented here, since the number of cases is so low, we don't need to take any preventive measures? Apparently we don't even need to worry about looking for committed fraud, or even prosecute those committing it.

This is an issue now because people are trying to fire up voters to support their side. And that applies to both ends of the spectrum.

I support the ID laws because I believe that we Americans must preserve the voice we have in our government. It should not be allowed to be dilluted by those who aren't elligible.

I suppose, nail, you can add this to my "radicalized social agenda"

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK. So Rep Akin made some comments that have some in an uproar. My thoughts:

STUPID!

Perhaps his actual words didn't convey the message he was trying to send. That truly doesn't matter. His chosen words were ignorant, insensitive, and truly misinformed.

I see the stats that ELISI posted. This may be true. But it doesn't absolve the Representative from MO of his lack of tact. Were I running for an office, I would most certainly distance myself from him and his comments. There is absolutely no excuse.

This in no way affects my opinions on the issue. Just want to make this clear.

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Nice. Let's all be pissed off at Mitt for foreign investments. Your posted article even states there is no evidence of anything illegal on Romney's part. That all his claimed deductions were perfectly legal.

So he has foreign investments. He has foreign accounts. These are legal.

The assumption I can make is the fact that he used these deductions to reduce his tax bill is the reason everyone is up in arms. Since he has all of these deductions, he paid less actual dollars in taxes, making for a lower percentage of his income went to the IRS.

But didn't the President do the same thing? The actual hard dollar figures were lower than Mr. Romney's, perhaps he doesn't have the foreign accounts and income. The fact remains the Mr. Obama also maximized his deductions to lower his tax bill.

So why isn't everyone calling for the rich to pay their "fair share" hopping mad at the President?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.

Guess what. It may be a single cell, may not have developed to anything recognizable, but that entity is still human. I bet if you were to analyze the DNA of that cell, you would find it to be human.

But yet everyone wished to justify this murder.

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-binder-pictures,0,262376.story

I cannot believe that it even had to happen. If there wasn't anything obscene or illegal, what's the problem?

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 9:10 p.m

One cell??? Human???

Dig that sucker out and see if it would live. Go ahead, I want to see it live and breathe and a heartbeat and move! Just how long do you think it can "live" on it's own? Hell, I can spit on a slide and see human DNA, doesn't mean it's a person. Probably get "human DNA" from snot, don't think it will live either.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

Take a baby that is just born and take it away from all contact from any other person and see how long it survives. But you could still be convicted for a crime when it dies, right?

I repeat, anything to justify this murder.

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


dbw,-

sorry, that dog don't hunt.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

You made my point. People use the cases of rape/incest, and mothers health for the talking points to keep abortions legal. But a majority of abortions don't fall into these categories (Planned Parenthood site has plenty of data for this).

Your statements referring to spit and snot reflect the selfish attitude that keeps a majority of people willing to keep this form of murder legal to practice. So many claim to value and cherish life, but refuse to acknowledge that this entity in the womb is a living human being.

danabwoodley — August 20, 2012 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 20, 2012 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal



dwb-

Tell you what, solder boy. When YOU grow a vagina, you will have the right to decide what to do with it. Until then, control your own johnson and mind your own business.

hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b_lvS...

DBW-Here's some Republican women sharing your views.

You're quite the expert on women's rights!

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 12:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If only conservatives cared one one hundredth as much for children/people *after* they were born than *before*...

Not to change the subject from DBW's tutorial on what women should do with their bodies/preemptive strikes on voter's rights/rape/DNA analyzation/incest/certified public accounting...

...but shouldn't we have a new forum for this week by now?

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 12:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


List to rights that the left is protecting-

Rights to women: check

Rights to minorities: check

Rights to illegal immigrants: check

Rights to convicted prisoners: check

Rights to the poor: check

Rights to unborn children: ............

So I am trying to control women? When did I say a woman couldn't choose to have sex? When did I say they couldn't get medically screened for illness?

No, it's not a matter of being in a womans vagina, it's a matter of doing what you want and not have to take responsibility. Even if it means killing a child.

I stated before, the matter of contention on this issue is when does this creature constitute a person with rights and protections. I suppose you can define that for yourself, however makes it convenient to justify how you want to live.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 1:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

This "soldier boy" works to protect the rights and freedoms of others. Some of which cannot even speak for themselves, such as the unborn child. You apparently aren't willing to fight for them, so someone has to.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 1:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am all for rights, and liberty, and freedom.

But I am also an advocate for personal responsibility. That is what I see is wrong with many on the left. They want the freedom, but don't want to take the responsibility, even if it infringes on anothers freedom.

In a word - selfishness.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 1:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nothing like the GOP. Thank God! DBW Stop the patting, You're giving yourself a backache and the rest of us a headache.

First on CNN: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform

Tampa, Florida (CNN) - The Republican Party is once again set to enshrine into its official platform support for "a human life amendment" to the Constitution that would outlaw abortion without making explicit exemptions for rape or incest, according to draft language of the platform obtained exclusively by CNN late Monday.

"Faithful to the 'self-evident' truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed," the draft platform declares. "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children."

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

The party will reaffirm its opposition to federally-funded stem cell research and demand that the government "should not fund or subsidize health care which includes abortion coverage."

Republicans have also inserted a "salute" to states pushing "informed consent" laws - an apparent reference to ultrasound bills that have moved through some state legislatures - "mandatory waiting periods prior to an abortion, and health-protective clinic regulation."

The document, crafted Monday in a subcommittee meeting of the Republican Party's official platform committee in Tampa, is being closely guarded by party officials but was provided to CNN by a Republican source here.

The source cautioned that the statement of principle is still in draft form and must be approved by the full platform committee on Tuesday and by delegates to the Republican National Convention next week.

The GOP's abortion plank faces scrutiny every four years, and this year's document contains language similar to the platforms that were adopted by the party at their conventions in 2000, 2004 and 2008.

But the abortion issue has been thrust into the center of the presidential campaign as this year's convention approaches, thanks to comments from Missouri Rep. Todd Akin, a U.S. Senate candidate, about abortion and "legitimate rape."

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and his running mate Paul Ryan sharply condemned Akin's remarks and pledged that under a Romney administration, abortion would be allowed in the case of rape.

An exemption for rape, though, is not included in the platform set to be adopted by the party Romney will officially lead when he accepts the Republican nomination next week.

And Ryan, his vice presidential pick, has opposed exceptions for rape and voted alongside Akin in the House, though Ryan now says he defers to Romney's position on the matter.

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 1:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Debate over the abortion plank flared four years ago when John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee at the time, said he wanted to add language to the platform to recognize exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

That prompted angry finger-wagging from top social conservatives.

Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council, chided McCain and said it would be "political suicide" for him to add language about exceptions for rape or incest in the abortion platform.

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 2:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


These Republican knuckle draggers are making Sharia Law sound liberal! Amazing stuff from across the aisle.

No wonder they're rigging the elections with voter suppression. It's the only hope they have. Stick all these nuts in Texas and let em' succeed. They aren't going to succeed in November!

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 2:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*These Republican knuckle draggers*

Afterall, if you disagree, then insult them.

Amazing that wanting an innocent child to have an opportunity for life is seen as a bad thing. It disgusts me that so many are so willing to cast that child aside. And you justify yourselves by defining that child as something less than human. Didn't people use to do the same thing with the slaves they owned?

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 2:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On August 20, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. , danabwoodley spewed:

*I know the number of voting fraud cases is low. I am not going to argue that point.*

And that is at least the second time you have acknowledged that your 'causes' are rw talking points. Talking points that have no substance in reality.

Thanks for having yet again acknowledging this.

*Voters being disenfranchised? Why?*

Are you questioning the actions of the Republican Party? Or attempting to set up a scenario where that disenfranchisement isn't happening?

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The talk is that voters are being disenfranchised because they won't be allowed to vote because they are unable to obtain an ID. I am trying to figure out how they do other things in life that also require ID, or am I mistaken about some of the ID requirements. If I am wrong in my assumptions about some of the things requiring ID (unemployment, welfare, social security) how are we preventing fraud in those areas?

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye on August 20th @ 11:18 p.m. (*that is, IF someone doesn't flag and remove after the time I post this comment*)

*Good Lord, man...**what's happened to you???*** This is *NOT* typical of Mister Hawkeye's posts. For someone who disagrees with anybody conservative or more to the right, you are showing your true colors...not doing justice to your political affiliation at all. What Danabwoodley stated regarding when a human egg becomes human reflects the thoughts of many throughout the US (including myself)...even the world. Just because his analogy hit a nerve with you, doesn't mean you have to get nasty, you know.

And Hawkeye, I hate to tell you this but...

Dana has a right to his opinion on the forum...

*...WITHOUT ATTACKS OF SUCH INTENSITY LIKE THE ONE YOU POSTED.* And yes, I found your comment quite offensive, hawk. Just thought you'd like to know. If not...well, que sera sera.

It is your fame to shame comment of the year, sir.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I am trying to figure out how they do other things in life that also require ID, or am I mistaken about some of the ID requirements.*
danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 6:35 a.m

Thank you for tying the two claims / concern trolling and the fact you have nothing substantive from which to argue with.

"Allegations of Voter Fraud

The "voter fraud" cry has been increasingly used to justify policies that suppress legitimate voters. But the cry is baseless; allegations of voter fraud—especially polling place impersonation fraud—almost always prove to be inflated or inaccurate. The Brennan Center carefully examines allegations of fraud to get at the truth behind the claims. The truth of the matter is that voter fraud—votes knowingly cast by ineligible individuals—is exceedingly rare; one is more likely to be struck by lightning than to commit voter fraud. Our work debunking the voter fraud myth is available at Truth About Fraud.

In 2007, the Brennan Center released The Truth About Voter Fraud, the most extensive analysis of voter fraud claims to date. The report finds that most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless—and that of the few allegations remaining, most reveal election irregularities and other forms of election misconduct, rather than fraud by individual voters. The type of individual voter fraud supposedly targeted by recent legislative efforts—especially efforts to require certain forms of voter ID—simply does not exist."

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/allegations_of_voter_fraud/

"A major probe by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007 failed to prosecute a single person for going to the polls and impersonating an eligible voter, which the anti-fraud laws are supposedly designed to stop. Out of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud – and many of the cases involved immigrants and former felons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility. A much-hyped investigation in Wisconsin, meanwhile, led to the prosecution of only .0007 percent of the local electorate for alleged voter fraud. "

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167217/voter-fraud-fraud

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana...know this that there are many others who totally agree with your view on abortion.

Great comeback on August 20, 2012 at 9:49 p.m.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#UN Investigator to US: End 'Conspiracy of Silence' on Drone Strikes

The secrecy surrounding the U.S. use of drone attacks must end, and each drone strike carried out by the U.S. should be independently investigated, London barrister and UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights and Counter-Terrorism Ben Emmerson said Sunday.

Activists staging a die-in to commemorate the innocent people killed by lethal drones. (Image: CodePink))
Emmerson is preparing a report for the next session of the Human Rights Council in March covering the use of drone attacks, which have spiked since Obama's presidency.

He questioned the legality of the drone strikes and noted the growing global outrage over their use.

“We can't make a decision on whether it is lawful or unlawful if we do not have the data. The recommendation I have made is that users of targeted killing technology should be required to subject themselves, in the case of each and every death, to impartial investigation. If they do not establish a mechanism to do so, it will be my recommendation that the UN should put the mechanisms in place through the Human Rights Council, the General Assembly and the Office of the High Commissioner.”

“The Obama administration continues formally to adopt the position that it will neither confirm nor deny the existence of the drone program, whilst allowing senior officials to give public justifications of its supposed legality in personal lectures and interviews. In reality the administration is holding its finger in the dam of public accountability. There are now a large number of law suits, in different parts of the world, including in the UK, Pakistan and in the US itself, through which pressure for investigation and accountability is building.”

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/08/20

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like a lost cause when discussing issues with certain people on the forum again. I truly would like to refrain from utilizing the gray bar as I'm sure others feel the same way, but then again...

Just taking a day away from the forum, then going back...

It's clear as standing on a mountain peak, glancing at the clear blue sky in July...

...just where the ignorance prevails in the forum.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO

Hopefully his post isn't removed. Combined with a few of his previous, it paints a total picture.

But of course, it doesn't matter to those who agree with his position. As can be seen in nail's posts.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The talk is that voters are being disenfranchised because they won't be allowed to vote because they are unable to obtain an ID."

From what I've read, inablity to obtain ID isn't a primary sticking point. The point is there are so few cases of voter fraud, why bother with adding another step in the process of voting in a country where only 70% of the people bother to register in the first place? And, depending on the election, only 30% to 50% of those bother to go thru the voting process?If anything, it seems we should look at making the whole process easier, not more cumbersome. But, because each major party is going to push legislation that affects blocks of voters in ways advantageous to their party, non-issues such as this pop up now and then.

And, as usual, we are fed trivial issues by comparison and the real issues are ignored or given lip service. Besides, the final drafts of "groundbreaking legislation" are usually filled with enough loopholes to satisfy the monied folks, and therefore are meaningless.

mrd — August 21, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Even Adam Smith Would be Appalled by Romney's Tax Evasions

Romney’s alleged 13 percent tax rate is lower than that of most middle class Americans who earn a tiny fraction of what he earns.
By Robert Reich

Mitt Romney says “every year I’ve paid at least 13 percent [of my income in taxes] and if you add in addition the amount that goes to charity, why the number gets well above 20 percent.”

This is supposed to be in defense of not releasing his tax returns.

Assume, for the sake of the argument, he’s telling the truth. Since when are charitable contributions added to income taxes when judging whether someone has paid his fair share?

More to the point, Romney admits to an income of over $20 million a year for the last several decades. Which makes his 13 percent — or even 20 percent — violate the principle of equal sacrifice that lies at the core of our notion of tax fairness.

Even Adam Smith, the 18th century guru of free-market conservatives, saw the wisdom of a graduated tax embodying the principle of equal sacrifice. “The rich should contribute to the public expense,” he wrote, “not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more in proportion.”

http://www.alternet.org/even-adam-smith-would-be-appalled-romneys-tax-evasions

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana, we must've posted at the exact same time...with the same thoughts if you read my post just above yours at 7:40 am.

..

Misssster Basil Seal...

In your post at 7:40 am, you have copied and pasted a section of the Brennan Center's article which states

"In 2007, the Brennan Center released The Truth About Voter Fraud, the most extensive analysis of voter fraud claims to date. The report finds that most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless—and that of the few allegations remaining, most reveal election irregularities and other forms of election misconduct, rather than fraud by individual voters. The type of individual voter fraud supposedly targeted by recent legislative efforts—especially efforts to require certain forms of voter ID—simply does not exist."

I give you credit for being away from the forum for a couple of days, but if you go back and read the links I provided (Texas and Minnesota), you will find the "convicted voter fraud" acts were not baseless and were not election irregularities. I also pointed out one of the most historic cases in the US of voter fraud when the Rajneeshies poisoned folks in Wasco County in order for members of the movement to gain a seat in the county government.

The Brennan Center information in my opinion is flawed. Apparently their comment was directed only to those seeking election. We've been discussing a broader spectrum of voter fraud, not just those in question during the Bush years.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil-

You so effectively label me as RWTP, but provide nothing to answer the question. How do people who can't get an ID to vote, prove their identity to do other things?

I say again, smoke and mirrors.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 20, 2012 at 11:18 p.m.

BTW, the Republican Convention Platform Committee is on C-Span this AM:

One of the issues being discussed is how a party that is ostensibly for personal freedoms and responsibility is advocating laws regulating who can marry and limiting both gay and women's rights.

So, hawkeye; well put and well worth repeating:

*Tell you what, solder boy. When YOU grow a vagina, you will have the right to decide what to do with it. Until then, control your own johnson and mind your own business.*

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*You so effectively label me as RWTP,*
danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 7:49 a.m.

Not you, your concern trolling.

As for that argument; perhaps you could show us where you have some proof of your concern actually happening.

Examples supporting your claims.

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Who's trolling now??? Basil, just repeating the same comment Hawkeye made...

You're just as disgusting.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil-

You either skipped over my post *August 20, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.*, or you choose to reply in the usual fasion. No words of your own, just cut and paste someone elses words. But the question is still unanswered. Why aren't we mad at the President for reducing his tax obligation with legal deductions?

Anyone?

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


were not baseless and were not election irregularities.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.

That your list of 'examples' is so woefully short points out that the concern trolling is in fact a subterfuge for an entirely different agenda.

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sheesh...

Hawkeye, Nailingit and Basil...why don't the three of you just combine into one person. You all appear to have just about the exact same thing to say every time.

Hey, I know...we could call you...

Mr. Hawkingit!!!

Yeah, I like that...8P

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Without drivers licenses and facing inaccessible polling places, some elderly and disabled people give up trying to vote
By Emily Nohr & Alissa Skelton

Karin Kellas of Glendale, Ariz., prefers voting by absentee ballot so she can volunteer at polling places on Election Day. Kellas suffered a spinal cord injury as a result of a rollover car accident in 1966. Her legs were amputated in the ‘90s and she is now confined to a motorized wheelchair.


Is voting fraud a serious problem in American elections? Will new identification requirements at the polls disenfranchise prospective voters among minorities, college students or the elderly? Should ex-felons who've served their sentences be allowed to vote? Are voting machines reliable? In this year's News21 project, two dozen top student journalists from eleven universities throughout the country are investigating the impact on American voters of recent extensive changes in election laws and voting procedures in many of the 50 states.
See the full project at votingrights.news21.com.

Sami McGinnis remembers walking into a polling place and casting her vote for the first time.

“It was a wonderful feeling to have that freedom,” she said.

McGinnis, 67, whose vision is impaired, gave up that freedom eight years ago after her husband died. That’s when she first voted by absentee ballot. Having no family near her Mesa, Ariz., residence, she found it difficult arranging transportation — especially on Election Day.

She wishes it were possible for her to physically vote inside a polling place because she questions whether her absentee ballot is counted.

“It’s better than nothing,” she said, “but live my experience and tell me it’s better than nothing. It’s not the same.”

One in nine voting-age Americans is disabled, according to Census data. Of the 17 percent of voting-age Americans who are 65 years or older, at least 36 percent are disabled.

At a time when 37 states have considered photo ID legislation, some disabled and elderly Americans may face difficulty voting this November because they often don’t have a valid driver’s license. The result is that voter turnout among these groups likely will decrease, according to Rutgers University research.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/08/20/10708/disabled-and-elderly-voters-face-new-hurdles-polls

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Hawkingit, the only agenda I have is planting bunching onion seeds, peas, lettuce, spinach and other fall crops. After that, it's bread making and housecleaning. No political agenda, no other agenda. Nice try, though.

Even ONE case of voter fraud is too many. Do we just go ahead and excuse it? I think not. It is illegal and must be nipped in the bud.

I'm merely pointing out discrepancies in the Brennan Center link which in my opinion, I would prefer to see links without flaws in their writes for everyone to prove their point so it's not so politically slanted to fit their obvious agenda.

goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What claim are you asking for examples of?

You are refusing to answer, because you have no answer. So you want to put the onus on another so you can appear superior.

Answer my question, with you own words for a change.

And like I said to Hawk that lent to the post you quoted:

Abortion is a women's rights issue? What about the rights of the child being killed?

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Hmmm, I don't see anywhere that it is stated anyone is obligated to respond to any particular post.

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GO-

Following the same logic as the "insignificant numbers of fraud cases" argument, we can extrapolate further legislative proposals.

If the number of homocides totals less than 1% of all deaths, then there is no need to prosecute homocide cases. (This will reduce the prison population as well, right?

If your house is broken into, and the damage, and stolen items come to a value of less than $250,000 (same figure used to determine who is wealthy base on earnings), then we need not make any effort to track or prosecute the guilty party(s).

Since most everyone can agree to protect a womans right to abort a pregnancy in the event of rape, incest, and danger to mothers health, and these cases account for less than 2% of all pregnancies, we will make abortion legal for all cases.

hold on, let me rethink that last one.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What about the rights of the child being killed?

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:09 a.m.

RWTP

Rick Santorum: Rape babies are gifts from God

GOP Presidential hopeful Rick Santorum caused quite a stir on CNN last Friday night when he basically said rape victims should accept their babies as gifts from God.
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2012/01/24/rick-santorum-rape-babies-are-gifts-from-god/

also see:

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/21/718461/2012-republican-platform-to-advocate-abortion-ban-without-rape-exception/

http://truth-out.org/news/item/11026-paul-ryan-and-todd-akin-partnered-on-radical-personhood-bill-outlawing-abortion-and-many-birth-control-pills

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169461/republicans-test-your-knowledge-women

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Your right basil. Just offering you the opportunity to give your opinion. Not someone elses.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I expressed my views on abortion in rape cases 2 or 3 weeks ago basil. So if these headlines are supposed to shock me....

Sorry to disappoint.

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal



danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 8:23 a.m.

Gee, golly, thanks for allowing me to post.......

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#You’re so trashy

The disposal of product “wastes” in America has seen an exponential increase in quantity in the past century. In a mere one-hundred years they’ve grown from only 92 pounds of throw-away trash per person per year to a staggering 1,242 pounds per person per year. Do the math on that for yourself.

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2012-08-14/green-waste

mr_basil_seal — August 21, 2012 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Hey Golden, are you back? I can't keep track. Regardless, welcome again.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — August 21, 2012 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Hey Golden, are you back? I can't keep track. Regardless, welcome again.*

In all her glory!!! :)))

*This "soldier boy" works to protect the rights and freedoms of others. Some of which cannot even speak for themselves, such as the unborn child. You apparently aren't willing to fight for them, so someone has to.*

danabwoodley — August 21, 2012 at 1:46 a.m.

Hopefully DBW isn't "on the wall". I think not because American's Capital isn't the CopaCubana, our food isn't spicier, and it's still hard to find a good cigar.

Having said that, DBW still needs a code red!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI...

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 21, 2012 at 7:27 a.m

I find it odd that you would be upset by my post. I guess it's OK with you that the government be "in your business". Oh well, to each his/hers own.

dbw-

A few questions for you.

You say you are all about right to life, rights for the unborn and the right to live yet you work for an agency that is the leader in killing, how do you justify that?

If they were to send YOU to a combat zone, would have the guts to pick up a rifle and use it? ( BTW, how are things in Lacey, WA.)

And the third, since I was never in the service, what exactly does "HHT, 1/11th ACR" mean?

hawkeye — August 21, 2012 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


FYI alert!!! This weeks forum is up.

nailingit — August 21, 2012 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**HEY, GOLDIE**

..looks like you've got an admirer.

or stalker.....

DeeLittle — August 23, 2012 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


testing one two seventy five
http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Uh5mTxRQcg

soapbox4u — September 6, 2012 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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