Open forum, Dec 3-9

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316 comments

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Good morning to all my fellow forum dwellers. I just wanted to pass your way, a rather interesting newsworthy segment I read on the WSDOT website which shows the STIP (Statewide Transportation Improvement Program) Document now ready for review. If you are interested in where our tax dollars will be going, this document will clearly show you.

In this document, it displays the upcoming projects for 2013 - 2016 for our state roadways and bridges, including bus funding (replacement of 6 buses for 6 new hybrid buses at an estimated cost of $2.5 million), ADA transit improvements, funding for the Columbia River Crossing, Bus Rapid Transit Corridor and the I-205/18th Street interchange project. Many other local projects slated for improvement or construction are within this document as well. It is a rather lengthy one, so I'll provide a starting point for the information for here in Clark County begins on page 731.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/LocalPrograms/ProgramMgmt/STIP.htm

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Musing...

The last time I was at a bar was Feb 25th. I had to check Litsam's (my publisher) website to get the date. I was there for a book signing (hi, nail!). I don't frequent the bars. I'm not much for signings at bookstores either... too many weirdos.

The Quarterdeck has an outdoor patio for tobacco users. Is that patio considered "public." I ask, because though cannabis use will be legal in a few days public use will still be verboten.

For the sake of this discussion (argument?) let's say it's not public.

So then, could a person go on out and have a few hits off the ol' pipe?

What of the tobacoo using patrons that don't care to be exposed to cannabis smoke. You know, maybe individuals who must pass drug screens?

Booze servers must be licensed. Servers are trained to detect when an individual is a bit into their cups. They *aren't* trained to know when a person is stoned out of the gourd. Would the establishment prohibit cannabis use due to liability issues?

Is something similar to the Dutch "coffee shops" in our near future? A friend of mine has a dream of having an establishment set up something like a winery.

The place would have spirits, food and (of course) cannabis. The food dishes would be available infused. Tours of the facility would be available; cultivation techniques, strain differences highlighted, various processing methods...

Think Napa Valley, only with flowers instead of berries?

Myself, I'm thinking there's one heck of a business opportunity just around the corner. My buddy has already expressed his wish I come onboard as a part time consultant.

...musing.

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 3, 2012 at 7:36 a.m.

Good morning Drift. I'm seeing smoking pot treated the same as cigarette smoking but in different locations. But who knows. It's going to be a cluster duck for a while until the "officials" get it all worked out.

As for the "Dutch" coffee shops, I'm not sure if smoking inside will be treated the same.

hawkeye — December 3, 2012 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, did you read the article on the front page?

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/de...

Apparently, pot is not only treated like cigs but is ALSO treated like alcohol as well.

Go figure.

hawkeye — December 3, 2012 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mornin', hawk.

I recall some patrons of the coffee shops having a fit because tobacco smoking was banned. Many of those folks like to blend the tobacco in with the cannabis.

Dr. Tashkin's (UCLA) 30 year study has proven cannabis smoking does not lead to lung cancer. The tobacco smoking bans are all about cancer risks. That doesn't exist with cannabis.

With that in mind, a "coffee shop" should be able to operate, provided the establishment is a state licensed retail outlet.The patrons would not be individuals worried about work place drug testing. No one in the establishment would have concerns over "second hand" smoke.

Oh, here's an old Washington Post article on Tashkin's study, for those interested. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's the public thing, hawk. I'm thinking something of that nature would be hunky-dory on private property.

Keep in mind here (before someone raises the argument), I don't think folks who wish not to be should be subjected to the particulates resulting from burning grass.

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just curious about the legalization of marijuana, since I am one of a minority in society who has never utilized it...

If people had the public access to utilize marijuana, then are involved in an accident and are found with high levels of THC in their bloodstream...would the places who allowed them to use to such an extent be partly held responsible???

Also...

Say some folks from Oregon want to take advantage of Washington's legalization of marijuana...and transport it home. They're stopped by the police and are caught in possession. Wouldn't this be not only a violation of the State of Oregon, but also a Federal violation as well???

And one more question...

For those who "sell" the legal stuff...are they subject to taxation for profits???

Seems to me, this is a moneymaker for the powers that be.

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie, establishments that over-serve alcohol are at risk of litigation. Cannabis wouldn't be any different (I don't think).

Yes, an Oregonian caught (outright) crossing the bridge could face interstate transportation charges.

The taxing scheme is 25% - three times. From the cultivator to the distributor, 25%. From the distributor to the retail outlet, 25%. And finally, to the consumer, 25% (plus local sales tax!).

This taxing scheme was one of the questions (issues?) I had with 502. Profits must be made by those in the business. It's been estimated the end price will be about $12.00 a gram (a bit steep). If the price from a retail store is much more than the black-market... it aint gonna work.

I could see a tad more expensive. From the "company store" one would be assured the material didn't contain pesticides, mold, etc.

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 3, 2012 at 8:34 a.m.

I'm pretty sure that 502 prohibits consumption on the premises of a retailer.

frobert — December 3, 2012 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 3, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.

I'm sure the price will start out high, because it is based on the black market. When it is established as a legal enterprise the price will drop considerably. One dollar a gram would be an unfathomably high price for a farmer growing any crop. Even if the price doubled at each step and including the 25% tax at each step it would only be $8.00. I have no idea what the black market price is, but without the risk of arrest, the price has to drop.

frobert — December 3, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- #marimetrics!- Great questions. After reading them I was prompted to visit my garage. (I know, a guy my age getting high in the garage, but with a kid still at home and a wife who doesn't indulge and hates the..aroma, I try to be respectful)

It'll be more than interesting to see how our WA elected will embrace this mandate handed to them from the people. It's my guess the pervasive influence of local conservatism will go down kicking and screaming, if they go down at all.

With koffee houses I envision onerous building compliance codes, burdensome business health/safety standards, prohibitive zoning laws, delays, getting the Fed involved, smear tactics etc.

It'll take awhile. It's hard for some to accept change. But change it is!

I think pot will and should become much more integrated in our American culture. A society utilizing Pot's benefits with a mindset driven by fact instead of fictional hysteria will benefit all.

More $$$ will be used for R&D; targeting Pot health benefits. I have a feeling we've only scratched the surface in this field.

It's great to even have this conversation. I was wondering if this day would ever come.

In the past I was blessed with many opportunities to frequent Nederlander coffee shops. About a dozen trips to not less than 25-30 shops, mostly in Amsterdam, but other places as well. (if your business venture should involve a comparative Dam/Couve analysis advisory position please, please consider me!) I'd love to work in our upcoming industry serving the needs of WA ST compliant participants! :).

We can do this much much better. Although we could never replicate the Euro vibe, our coffee shops can create it's own rainy day haze, and appeal to a broader spectrum of society with a by & large better atmosphere & at a better price.

On the pot mixing with tobacco thing. Extremely popular in Europe. Seems like more do than don't. Many view it as two birds with one stone & cost beneficial.

I view it as breaching the sacrilegious zone.

To each their own, but I do see tobacco/pot as having to be addressed at least with current law. Lawmakers most likely will make things more restrictive.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see obstructionism ahead. Religious Conservatives will fight this.

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Conservatives are losing their staged hypocritical war on every front. No doubt they'll blame Godless Obama & evil Obamacare for such "horrid" viewpoints.

**A plan to drive conservatives wild**

*The American Academy of Pediatrics says docs should pre-prescribe Plan B birth control to girls under 17*

There’s no culture war like the contraception war. And whether you’re a Catholic churchgoer, a Planned Parenthood donor, a House Republican, or a Code Pink activist, there are few better ways to spoil holidays with the in-laws than to bring up birth control at the dinner table.

It was considerate of the American Academy of Pediatrics, then, to wait until after the Thanksgiving weekend to release a policy brief recommending that physicians pre-prescribe emergency contraception—known as Plan B or Next Choice—to teenage patients, in order to ensure their ability to obtain it when needed. Onerous federal laws discourage teens from using so-called “morning-after pills,” despite the enormous human and financial costs of an unplanned pregnancy, and according to the AAP, physicians might remedy the problem by writing high schoolers a script for Plan B long before the morning after.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/02/a_plan_to_drive_conservatives_wild/

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.

Anti marijuana laws are a liberal concept, the Marijuana Tax Act was passed by a liberal Congress under FDR and the Controlled Substances Act was passed by a liberal Congress. It was the Conservative elements of the Supreme Court that dissented in Gonzales v. Raich. It was also the Obama administration whom in September raided more medical marijuana facilities in one day than the Bush administration did in eight years.

Alcohol prohibition was a conservative concept, and therefore it was a Constitutional amendment. Marijuana prohibition was a liberal concept therefore the in FDR fashion it was passed without Constitutional authority.

frobert — December 3, 2012 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You're correct, fro. I-502 does have a provision for no on-premise use. I missed that... or forgot ;^)

That little detail can be changed in two years.

I do know I mentioned previously the RAND Corp. has estimated cannabis could drop to as low as 20 bones an ounce. I'm sure they didn't include 75% plus tax... Heh.

What "they" do *is* going to be very interesting, nail. And when I say "they" I mean everything from the U.N, U.S., states, counties, cities... to the every day citizen.

I surely wish the DEA would pull cannabis from schedule I. I'd like to see two things happen with that. The first would be the whole plant regulated about like beer. Grow it if you wanna. Buy it if you wanna. Let's not be giving it to the kiddies though, eh (unless medicinally).

The second would be letting the pharmaceutical outfits have their way with it. I'm currently studying a paper on the formation of osteoclasts and osteoblasts. The CB1 and CB2 antagonists appear to be able to inhibit osteoclast precurser formation. This work is important for postmenopausal women. Think "osteoporosis."

Not to mention the cancer work that's being currently performed with phytocannabinoid ligands. With cannabis yanked from schedule I researchers will be able to use the real thing.

Remember boys and girls, the wonder drug Aspirin was originally willow bark tea.

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- It's history. Although appreciated, it in no way represents todays attitudes. I didn't define my comment to partisanship. But you know religious conservatives have been the driving political force behind pot paranoia for decades.

Regardless of party.

It's just that there's so damn many more on the right.

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr7wcH...

Drift- Just had to give a loud shout of AMEN @ 10:52.

I think Conservatives will get on board after awhile. Many already are behind the pews.

Maybe it's all about singing the right message, to include a high note.

Obama-Medi-care part M. Free Pot for those over 55. Financed for the next 50 years from a small, one time surcharge to those making over 1 Billion annually. :))

Oh Happy Day!

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, it *is* free. Pretty darned close, anyway.

I just got my Clark Public Utilities Home Energy Report! I rank 82% out of 100 neighbors. The utility says that's currently costing me $366.00 a year more than the guy next door.

(grabs calcumalator) So that's 30 and a half bones more a month. I harvest an average of an ounce (net) a month. But wait! There's more!

I have a 110 volt 300 gallon hot tub sitting on the back porch. I run it year round. It isn't figured into my report provided by CPU. I maintain the water at 106F.

I've no idea what portion of the above average use is attributed to the tub or the indoor cultivation. Why would I care?

Matter a' fact, I think I'll have me a little bit and then go get in hot water. I find myself there quite often ;^)

Drift — December 3, 2012 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh boy...I know I'm going to regret asking this one....but I have to for curiosity sake.

Nailingit, would you please provide information to back up your comment @10:56 am which states *"But you know religious conservatives have been the driving political force behind pot paranoia for decades."* It would be greatly appreciated.

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @12:21 pm

I've heard of others getting the same report and am wondering if this is a precursor to the "Smart Grid." With the "Smart Grid," the utility company will install devices which shut energy to certain areas of your home. I've spoken to the folks at Clark PUD and was assured they weren't planning it due to the costs incurred in installation and operations...but you just never know these days. BPA could suddenly make it mandatory for every district they serve.

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Obama-Medi-care part M. Free Pot for those over 55."""

Oh yeah...that would do it! Numb the brains of the seniors and those approaching retirement...get that happy, joy joy feeling going in them...relax them to the max with such a Medicare plan while the G man cuts their SSI bennies! Yep...that's a perfect plan...

***NOT!***

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW Nailingit...your favorite, Representative Ron Paul was quoted by Rolling Stone as one of TWO (he and Barney Frank) of the most outspoken politicians in favor of marijuana policy reform.

I guess we could go back in time and list all the politicians who have admitted to using marijuana in the course of their life times in order to gain a more accurate picture of just who supports legalizing marijuana. You just might be surprised at what you might find.

goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- I gotta change my mindset about a few things...gracias.

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 3, 2012 at 12:21 p.m.

I was getting those letters too. They were saying that I was using 25% more power than the people down the street. Problem is, the people "down the street" only live there part time and the next house down the street is only a part time resident as well. Also, my house was built in 1946 and all the other houses are less than 10 years old. I told them I was tired of being accused of using too much power and told them to save their own energy and quit sending the stupid report. Also, I looked back at previous years and I'm about even.

hawkeye — December 3, 2012 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie,

With Queen Chrissy signing into law about carbon emissions the other day is just another step towards the beginning of "smart grids".
All of this is leading up to, if the powers that be feel you use too much electricity, they will shut you off. Much like the rolling black outs they have dane in years past in Ca.

In Melbourne, Australia, (my son's friend lives there) they are paying on average $500.00 a month for electricity, doubled, since the carbon footprint laws went into effect.

I hate to think what ours is going to end up costing us all.
They also are looking at "smart meters" like England has, they split the cost of power day charge to night tine charge. One pays more for power usage during the day, less at night.

ELISI — December 3, 2012 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal



All I have got to say is...WOW just WOW

Group Home Staff Helped Patients Vote

Legal guardians were not consulted before ballots cast

RALEIGH — Cecil Pearson’s daughter Darlene told him she voted for Barack Obama for president. President of what? Cecil says Darlene couldn’t tell you. Darlene, 40, is developmentally disabled and functions cognitively at about the level of a 7-year old. She lives in a group home with five other adult women in Roanoke Rapids.

“I was shocked when I learned she had voted,” Pearson told Carolina Journal. “She has never voted. My wife and I became her legal guardians in 1996 to prevent exploitation like this. We were not consulted. She is not capable of making an informed choice, and as her guardians we would not have approved it.”

Pearson said his daughter registered to vote at a Division of Motor Vehicles office in 1995 when staff at her group home took her to get a photo identification card. North Carolina Board of Elections records confirm that she registered in 1995, but the first vote she cast was Nov. 2 of this year. Cecil said he learned Darlene voted when he picked her up for a visit later the same day and she told him.

http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=9710

ELISI — December 3, 2012 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFUPB-...

**U.S. Government: Apocalypse Not Destroying The World In 2012, So Stop Scaring The Kids**

Won't somebody please think of the children?

That's the message the U.S. government is pushing in a new blog post attempting to dispel rumors about the rapidly approaching end of the world.

"Unfortunately, these rumors have many people frightened, especially children," reads the post at USA.gov. "The world will not end on December 21, 2012, or any day in 2012."

David Morrison, a planetary astronomer and senior scientist for NASA, tells USA.gov that “at least a once a week I get a message from a young person -- as young as 11 -- who says they are ill and/or contemplating suicide because of the coming doomsday.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/us-government-apocalypse_n_2234084.html

nailingit — December 3, 2012 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.

Thanks for the link. The way I read the document (and this could easily be wrong) is that for the period 2013 to 2016 the State has not committed anything to the CRC. I also read that the 4th Plain BRT will cost about $49.5 million, but they only have $5 million in funding identified. Highway 99 upgrades will cost over $20 million, with under $2 million in identified funding. That I205 Mill Plain to 18th Street interchange is showed as costing over $83.5 million - all to be paid with local funding!

No idea what the hell's going on, but it looks to me like life will be getting very expensive around here.

roger — December 3, 2012 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey guys, it is not physically possible to open individual house circuits at a meter. Even if it were possible the legal ramifications are enormous.

Goldie, here's a few studies for you to consider ;^)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248049
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21350020
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828287

Hawk, I'm considering having my "power profile" modified to include my indoor cultivation and the spa. I'm simply curious how my shack would stack up with the others once those draws were accounted for.

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 5:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"It's been estimated the end price will be about $12.00 a gram (a bit steep). If the price from a retail store is much more than the black-market... it aint gonna work." - Drift — December 3, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.

If my under-caffeinated brain is working properly, that comes to $340 per oz. And after a couple of phone calls, I've determined that this is about a $120 more than the going rate for what I'm assured is pure Oregon medical stock. (OK - we were assured of a lot back in the day too. And the people I called didn't like being woken at 0500 to be asked stupid questions. Oh well.) So, if your price estimates are anywhere near accurate - it definitely isn't going to work. Not for the State - the small time home growers is another story. And seeing as how I'm pretty certain your hot tub is the main culprit, I figure flying low will be the way to go.

roger — December 4, 2012 at 5:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 4, 2012 at 5:20 a.m.

An embedded signal can easily be sent back and forth along the power line, couple it with a basic computer and a relay, and controlling individual houses from the power company is quite simple. Legally they are regulated monopoly, and can do pretty much anything the State says they can. They are however, in the business of selling electricity, so I don't see them refusing to sell it.

frobert — December 4, 2012 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 3, 2012 at 7:10 a.m

Had a chance to look over some of what is provided on the link you shared yesterday.

OK, the city, state and the federal governments are broke. Highest number of citizens in history on welfare, (last I knew was over 47 million) it is crammed down our throats daily that we all must pay into a fund to help everyone have medical care... they want to cut funds to medicare, medicaid, lower social security, cuts to the defense budget etc etc.
Where in the heck is all this money for these project going to come from?
Our CPA told us that even with the tax rate hike for those making over 250,000 or more per yr happens, it will only generate enough money to keep DC running for about 8 days. Will do nothing to pay down the deficit.
So ask Mayor Tim, Queen Chrissy, and Mr Obama, just where in the H'.. is the money going to come from for all these projects.
Ask our elected if they are willing to give up all their entitlements and salaries, work for free to help pay the bills of this country.
wondering...how much the big Christmas party at the WH last night cost us tax payers.

ELISI — December 4, 2012 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 4, 2012 at 5:20 a.m.

The first link discusses orally ingested, not inhaled. If you are responding to my comment to nailingit regarding Obamacare part M (I wrote in jest as I had an inkling nailingit was as well) for medicare patients...namely seniors, then my response to the link regarding Alzheimer's disease is this. Alzheimer's disease is not a disease that all seniors acquire. That would be stereotyping the aged. For those with extensive Alzheimer's, orally-ingested cannabinoids for therapeutic benefits is still under review.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — December 3, 2012 at 7:53 p.m.

I'm glad you took the time to review the link. I sent the information directly to Eric Florip's email but as of yet, have not received anything in return. I felt this documentation is important for people to check out...if they want to know just where their taxes are going these days. Like you say...life is going to become more expensive around here. I'm beginning to wonder if they're doing it on purpose to the folks of Clark County because of the obvious majority opposition TO light rail in our county. All they have to do is encourage companies to continue to move out of county, turning us into a full-fledged sleeper community for Portland. It seems there's more senior assisted living facilities going up in our county rather than wage-earning corporations.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @5:56am...

Glad you were able to intercept the link. Some were informing me that they were having difficulties. I can see you understand why I felt it so important for folks to take the time out to check the link. I've been asking myself the very same questions. It won't be a fiscal cliff our government falls over. It'll be a financial implosion!!!

Just yesterday, I received a request for a donation to the Washington State Parks Foundation, claiming the State Parks are also facing a Fiscal Cliff by July of 2013. I find this very hard to believe considering the cost of camping at these facilities and the lack of maintenance I witnessed this past year. I also find it very hard to believe because of the Discovery Pass we all must pay in order to visit these parks for one day or even one hour. Just hiking to the top of Beacon Rock costs $10, now...and the place is always packed. And finally, I also find it very hard that they are facing a fiscal cliff, considering the Washington State Parks managed to slip in that $5 fee in the Department of Licensing that many don't realize they've paid till they review the receipt...too little, too late.

Guess the powers that be want to keep their current wages and expense accounts, ya think???

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 4, 2012 at 5:20 a.m

Give them a call, I did, took a couple days for the guy to call me back but I did get some answers about the "profile".

I was shocked when I opened my first profile and saw where they had us listed as users, 84. Actually it ticked me off, that's why I called.
We spent this last year replacing every appliance in the kitchen to energy stars, new water heater, replaced our entire heating and cooling system, we even had a energy star roof put on. Changed out every light bulb to LEDs. Replaced computers and TV's. Set the cooling system to 78 and heating to 67 days 60 nights.
I learned by calling in that, they didn't take into consideration that I am at home all day, where most of my neighbors work and not at home to use any power. Nor did they know that we don't have a hot tub, how many people live here etc etc. I was told it will take time to figure all these types of factors in, but at this time they can't until people call in and do a survey.
I they even have tips and survey on their web site.

https://clrk.opower.com/

ELISI — December 4, 2012 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"And seeing as how I'm pretty certain your hot tub is the main culprit, I figure flying low will be the way to go."

I'm not sure what you're saying here, roger.

I started growing six years ago. My son gave me a book on cannabis cultivation at the time. The latest copyright in it is 1986.

I set out to provide myself with cannabis for the least amount of overhead possible. My methods are a bit unorthodox. I use only fluorescent tube and CFL lighting. I don't use anything I can't find at Freddy's or the home improvement store. All of the plant fertilizers are natural.

My needs aren't much. The oz. a month average I harvest meets my needs. With that material I have a bit to smoke, I make capsules and a topical.

The veg-caps ease my nocturnal disruptions. My reliance on opiates for pain relief has decreased by 50%. I only smoke about a joint a day. Sometimes two when the malady is really getting after me. The topical eases the burning/stinging sensations in my neck and the abdominal spasms.

I've had three spine surgeries in the last fourteen years. I've done a ton of physical therapy and been through several "pain clinics." Spinal stenosis with accompanying cervical osteophytes is a pain ;^)

I'm a regular med-weed poster child, man. ;^)

I don't fear law enforcement. I'm "known" to them. I've even invited the Clark County Task Force Commander, City Council and Clark County Commissioners to my home. No one has bothered to stop by.

Thieves, on the other hand, are an issue. One of the reasons I use an alias is so I can talk freely without some numbskull kicking my door in with a shotgun (thief, not LE).

Of all the medicinal cultivators I know (a few) each and every keep their grows on the low-low just for this reason.

From what I understand (in Clark County) the going rate in the medicinal community is $200.00 an oz. BTW, I don't divert any of my material. I haven't sold a bag of weed since high school.

Along with what little bit of power I use there *is* soft costs; two boxes of Whitney Farms annually, Perlite, molasses, coir cups... I rinse and reuse my soil, but I do have to buy a couple of bags a year.

I have no real idea what my medicine (and I do mean "medicine") costs me. Could it be five, ten dollars an oz.?

As you guys should be aware by now, I'm a bit of an "activist." One of the things I'm fond of carrying on about is how folks say it's so expensive and difficult to grow cannabis. That simply isn't true. Frankly, I've sat out back and argued I believe it's an out-and-out lie. Just like so many other things cannabis related...

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Hey guys, it is not physically possible to open individual house circuits at a meter. Even if it were possible the legal ramifications are enormous.*

*Drift — December 4, 2012 at 5:20 a.m.*

You think so??? Maybe you need to check out these links:

http://www.datamatics.com/insights/articles/smart-meters-win-win-solution

http://www.echelon.com/applications/smart-metering/

http://ec.europa.eu/energy/gas_electricity/smartgrids/smartgrids_en.htm (read the report in the October 2011 section midway down the page)

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link, ELISI! That's something I hadn't considered - I'm home all day, too.

Oh, c'mon, goldie. I offer up a few studies on Alzheimer's and you insinuate I'm stereotyping?

"Oh yeah...that would do it! Numb the brains of the seniors and those approaching retirement...get that happy, joy joy feeling going in them...relax them to the max with such a Medicare plan while the G man cuts their SSI bennies! Yep...that's a perfect plan..."

Now, who's stereotyping, hmmm? ;^) <--- note smiley.

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift - Wasn't saying anything directed at you; rather, that was a general statement based on info you provided. There's plenty of info on the internet on how to grow. (I recall I used a High Times article back in the early '70s, and it was really quite easy.) Much of what you've stated supports what I've been thinking - that people who keep their home operation limited in scope, and avoid law enforcement detection or interest, will probably be able to create a new (?) supply source. (Or are they already out there?) And if you're correct and the State licensed operations have prices as high as you projected, well....

Now, to get me interested - is there a source anywhere for the seeds for the stuff we had back in the day? All I'm seeing is websites advertising stuff guaranteed to put you in a coma - screw that. Where are the good times Panama Red or Oaxacan Motorized Mexican seeds?

roger — December 4, 2012 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 4, 2012 at 6:26 a.m.

FWIW...I do understand what you have to endure, although my surgical intervention in my mid-thoracic region of my spine is but one of what you have had to endure. Those spasms...especially in the middle of the night...are not just painful. They're downright miserable! Uh BOY do I know!

In my case, though...I've been able to avoid the need for MM as well as the need for opiates (which the opiates I found were more detrimental in my case due to extreme allergies)...even when my drop-foot condition is at its worst (compounded by spinal and joint OA). Try to endure that pain when you've been fighting bronchial pneumonia and you're coughing your brains out...throwing your back out in two places in the meantime. Every twitch, every movement...feels like someone is running a sharp dagger through your spine, through to your chest. NO upright position is comfortable. Not a good feeling. Sometimes the pain is so bad that even holding yourself upright is a challenge with those spasms and the pain endured. Compound that with a permanent injury due to a hip fracture which couldn't be repaired through surgical intervention. Ah yes...sciatic nerve damage. It's a blast!

Speaking for myself, I have never questioned the needs by others who utilize cannabinoids to reduce the extreme pain and those blasted spasms they (and I) have to live with every day. Would I choose cannabinoids as my preference? Well drift, it is my preference NOT to utilize cannabinoids. I find relief through acupuncture, acupressure, relaxation meditation, and active lifestyle as well as a few other "holistic" methods such as aerobic exercise and stretching, proper diet, avoiding foods which aggravate the osteoarthritic condition which has decided to plague me as well along my spine and hips. It may not be 100% relief all the time, but it works for me.

So yes, in my case...I do understand what it is like to live through life with chronic, excruciating pain. We ALL find what works for us.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And drift...in my case, I know I wouldn't choose MM just because of the issue of these break ins and robberies at homes with MM lately. I have enough stress going in my life. I don't need to compound it.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


drift @6:41...I wouldn't make that reference if I wasn't nearing retirement age. You know the powers that be are cutting bennies on the people.

Regarding my comment to you about Alzheimer's...I said "IF" you were responding to my comment to nailingit. I have no problem with reading data provided by others and actually appreciate when the data presented IS educational. Thanks.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, goldie (6:35 a.m.) show me where one of those articles reads a meter can open and close circuits within household wiring.

Your home is supplied with 220 volt power. The supply goes through the meter and from there to a bus (breaker panel). At the bus it passes through the various breakers and into the respective circuits. The majority of that 220 is "split." That is, the two separate legs (110v) feed to your wall outlets and lighting. Electric stoves and clothes dryers are typically 220 v.

I suppose a smart meter can be (remotely) opened and closed, but unless there's switching gear downstream from it it *can not* physically open and close circuits within the home.

Period.
End of statement.

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


btw drift...preservatives are nasty on da bones!!!

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie, I'm not pushing weed. Not really. What I'm alluding to... well, several things.

I've tried various pharmaceuticals. None have proven effective. Some, have almost killed me. For me, cannabis has proven to be a godsend.

There's a lot of research in process with cannabinoids other than THC. CBD has a lot of promise in various cancers. When people think "pot" they think "stoned." As I pointed out early, I administer in three different fashions. One gets me stoned. And even with that, I titrate only to the level of relief. I've no interest in getting "blasted."

I shared my veg-cap formula with an acquaintance suffering from the onset of Parkinson's. Said individual has no desire to experience the psychoactive aspects of the plant. He takes a cap every other night before bed. The results have been very positive.

The inflated price of the material is a result of its scheduling under the CSA, plain and simple. If cannabis were legal then the price would plummet to the point it wouldn't be any more worth stealing than the six pack of beer I have in the back porch fridge.

I suppose what I'm truly advocating is a truthful and honest discussion on the subject.

Use cannabis (recreationally or medicinally) or don't. It's a personal choice. The thing is, it's here to stay. I would hope people will take the time to learn a little something about it, regardless of their personal decisions.

I'm afraid to answer your question, roger. I fear committing a crime under the RICO Act.

Oh, and yes, an atheist *can* use the word "godsend" without conflict ;^)

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I suppose it's apocryphal, goldie, but I've heard the dead don't deteriorate today as quickly as, say, 100 years ago. It's the preservatives.

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I've no interest in getting "blasted."*

Man I do once in awhile.

Just sayin'.

Great discussion this morning. Just wanted to chuck my 2 bits in.

:)

nailingit — December 4, 2012 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal



drift @7:32 am...

It seems to me, we have a bit in common with regards to pharmaceuticals and their effects on worn and torn bodies. Fear not my fellow forum dweller...I wasn't accusing you of pushing anything other than emphasizing your opinion on the matter.

Your comment @7:40 am...lol at the truth of your comment...8))

Your comment @ 7:01 am...

Although I'm not an electrician...not by any means, I did however understand the concept of sensors and the utilization of sensors in homes equipped with the Smart Meter system, according to the links I've provided. As I'd said in my original comment at 1:01 pm on December 3rd to you regarding the Smart Meter system, I had a chat with a member of Clark PUD's facility and was assured they weren't planning it due to the costs incurred in installation and operations.

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Oh, and yes, an atheist can use the word "godsend" without conflict ;^)"""

If it matters, I'm in agreement with you.

FYI - Merriam Webster online definition of godsend *"a desirable or needed thing or event that comes unexpectedly"*

8)

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, Goldie,

In the "smartmeter" system. the meter is a control unit that the power company can access and the appliances would have built in computers or be connected to a control computer that could be accessed by the smartmeter. The only reason the power company would cut power to anything would be because there is a shortage and cuts need to be made to keep other things going under an emergency. Since we have an abundance of power here, I don't see that ever happening.

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks hawkeye for explaining how the remote access would be achieved. This year, we have an abundance of power but in years of drought in the PNW and as the drought continues to build in the Midwest, that might not be the case if BPA continues to search for buyers of surplus energy. (Let's hope it doesn't come to that point.) They will route it wherever the higher price is paid. Part of the reasoning for the BPA line improvement is to increase the grid capacity to places like California. Who knows if they'll be taking it eastward!

It concerns me that Clark PUD is sending out these "gentle" reminders to those whose energy consumption is higher than their neighbors. Yeah, it's good to be informed, but the truth is that the PUD hasn't a clue as to why the energy consumption is higher...rather imposing of them, I think. If the person is paying their bill on time...what's the problem if we have so much excess energy???

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie, I agree. It really ticked me off that they had no point of reference in telling me that I used more power than my neighbor. They had no idea that they don't live there most of the time and that I am home most of the time or the number of people living in either home. How could they make any sort of comparison? After the second notice, I sent them an email and asked them to take me off their list. They never asked me to fill out a survey or asked anything.

Also, as for the amount of power we are producing, there have been several time in the past year they have had to shut down the wind generators and they are still constructing more, so I don't see us running out in the near future.

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I went to the PUD site and updated. Well, the only real update was the tub. There wasn't an entry for "Do you grow pot indoors?"

I don't know why, but I find it interesting both PUD and the county don't count this loft in the shack's square footage. The ground floor is all that's represented. There's more than another couple hundred feet up here (shrug).

PUD has been marketing the "energy conservation" thing for some time now. Before the gentle reminders it was the free home inspection deal, etc. I've never understood it either. It's like an oil company pushing electric cars...

Drift — December 4, 2012 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Big Business licking their chops...champagne flavored bud smoked in pre-heated ancient meerschaum bowls, enhanced with THC caviar n' crackers.

Our culture is going downhill...

**Jamen Shively, Former Microsoft Manager, To Launch 'Premium Marijuana' Business In Washington**

Jamen Shively is looking to cash in on the green.

The former Microsoft manager told Seattle's KIRO that he's planning on getting into the "premium marijuana" business now that weed is legal in Washington.

"By creating the category of premium marijuana, we want to position it similar to a fine cognac, a fine brandy, a fine cigar," Shively told KIRO's Amy Clancy. "Something to be savored and enjoyed, in small quantities by responsible adults."

Shively told The Huffington Post that he wants his business to appeal to baby boomers -- those with disposable income who may have smoked during their college years but took a 30-year break from the bong to raise a family.

"Think of us as the Neiman Marcus of marijuana," he told HuffPost. "Now that it's legal, and they're empty nesters, it's okay to inhale."

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/jamen-shively-microsoft-premium-marijuana-weed-washington_n_2234605.html

nailingit — December 4, 2012 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey folks...

Since the Columbian isn't producing as much pertinent news as they should be lately... I thought I'd share another little news tidbit which affects each and every one of us living in Washington State.

By January 1, 2013...you'd best purchase your carbon monoxide detector for your home whether it be new construction or an existing structure. There are some residences that may qualify for exempt status. Yep! I'm not kidding. It's RCW 19.27.530.

If you have a wood stove, a pellet stove or fossil fuel energy for your home, you should already have your CO detector. Mine went in before we purchased our wood stove.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.27.530

goldenoldie — December 4, 2012 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just put in two today..... Got it covered.

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW Goldie, what are they going to do, knock on every door to check?

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The link to the video taped commission meeting on Collective Medical Cannabis gardening of 12/03/12: http://www.cityofvancouver.us/cvtv/cvtvarchive2/Vancouver_City_Council/2012_Events/December_2012/12-03-12/4_Medical_Marijuana_Collective_Gardens_Ordinance.mp4

david98686 — December 4, 2012 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk and Gold, seems the rule also excludes the following:
owner-occupied single-family residences legally occupied before July 26, 2009.

That narrows it down alright. However, it would be foolish to not install those alarms.

luvithere — December 4, 2012 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome to the basement david! Thanks for the link.

nailingit — December 4, 2012 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll tell all of you what I'm NOT looking forward to.....

9 MORE MONTHS OF PREGNANT KATE and all the reports.... KMN

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Aww come on Hawkeye, you know you just can't wait to hear the daily reports! All those pictures of the weekly "baby bump", just think if you are a gambler you could make bets on..
the sex of the baby/babies..if it's going to be a single or multiple birth..the weight/s, the day..if multiple which one will be born first, cause the first born will be heir to the throne.

Oh my the possibilities...

If I were betting...it's twins, a girl and boy, born end of June, first of July.

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 6 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW Goldie, what are they going to do, knock on every door to check?

hawkeye — December 4, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.

Actually hawkeye, I wouldn't put it past them, with this RCW in play...to allow insurance companies to refuse to pay medical bills for lives injured or lost due to carbon monoxide poisoning in the residences.

..

luvithere — December 4, 2012 at 5:18 p.m.

Actually luvithere, if you read down further in the RCW, the ruling changes as of January 1st of 2013. I believe the residences that would be exempt are those without fossil fuel energy and without fireplaces.

goldenoldie — December 5, 2012 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...she's between 6 and 12 weeks pregnant so it might be a shorter time span than 9 months...(yes, I'm teasing). Besides...that's what the MUTE button is for. Either that or the Channel button or the ON/OFF button works well, too.

ELISI @ 6 am...

I was watching the beginning of Live with Kelly and Mike yesterday...wonderful spoof by Mike when he mentioned the possibility of twins. I cracked up when he mentioned how he could picture the twins fighting to be born first in order to gain rank in the realm of the next heirs. Let's see...I heard the baby would be third in line for the throne. With twins...that might be an interesting turn of events.

All I care is that the Duchess of Caimbridge stays healthy and that the baby(ies) is(are) well. I hate to hear of anybody having complications. Doesn't matter if she's royalty or not.

goldenoldie — December 5, 2012 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Amazing!! Not surprising..but amazing!!

**Republican Voters Pretty Sure 2012 Election Was Stolen By Non-Existent Organization**

How badly are Republican voters taking the results of the 2012 election? Pretty badly, according to the latest numbers from Public Policy Polling. Fully one-quarter of the Republicans they surveyed want their state to secede from the Union, "compared to 56% who want to stay and 19% who aren't sure." That's a real blow for patriotism, and it also indicates that the word hasn't gotten out about the GOP's successes in redistricting. But if there's one part of the poll that sums up what a terrible place Republican voters are in, emotionally, it's this:

49% of GOP voters nationally say they think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama. We found that 52% of Republicans thought that ACORN stole the 2008 election for Obama, so this is a modest decline, but perhaps smaller than might have been expected given that ACORN doesn't exist anymore.

It's almost as if a large portion of the GOP electorate lives inside an impenetrable bubble of bullroar, or something? Of course, the same can be said of the Beltway media, as it turns out:

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/acorn-republican-voters_n_2239298.html

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*49% of GOP voters nationally say they think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama.*

Yeah...49% of those stupid enough to take such a poll. Just for the record, this voter...registered as a Repub...thought Obama won the elections fair and square.

Relying on polls provides you with data which does not reflect the end result. Proof to the fact is easily displayed just by reading the poll numbers in the days prior to the election with regards to Obama versus Romney and the results of the election.

My suggestion...don't waste your time reading poorly-executed articles typical of Huffington Post. It ruins the credibility of those trying to emphasize a point of discussion. Remember, nobody forced Repubs to vote for Obama but they did anyhow.

goldenoldie — December 5, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**4 Lessons From Nate Silver's Election Predictions**

The fundamental issue around the current predictive controversy is that critics largely misunderstand what Silver is doing. They might want to believe that you can't use math to predict human action. But I disagree: At any time, you may be able to see trends that give you an insight into what will happen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/4-lessons-from-nate-silve_n_2082777.html

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder many assaults on logic can be attributed to conservative homeschooling???

**Dennis Kruse, Indiana State GOP Senator, Pushes Creationism In Schools Via 'Truth In Education' Bill**

Creationism legislation has been on the rise nationally in the last year, with Tennessee passing a bill similar to Kruse's proposal, and several other states also proposing (though failing to pass) bills to teach creationism. Louisiana passed a "truth in education" bill in 2008. **Earlier this year, former New Hampshire state Rep. Jerry Bergevin (R-Manchester) suggested that the teaching of evolution led to the Columbine massacre and the rise of the Nazi Party.** Bergevin left office Wednesday after losing a bid for a second term. New Hampshire lawmakers overrode Gov. John Lynch's (D) veto earlier this year of a bill that would allow parents to object to any part of the school curriculum and allow the teaching of an alternate curriculum.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/dennis-krause-indiana-creationism-education_n_2244758.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Can we retrain our drug dogs to not indicate marijuana, or will we need to get all new drug detection dogs?

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

That's old news like a month ago.. Obama is still president and doing nothing.. Maybe he will win another Nobel award for doing what? Nothing..Well he might just be putting the US back into another recession... But thats why you voted for him, to do nothing .... BTW why did he win that award in the first place, can you answer that????...

Obama holding country as Hostage as Fiscal Cliff approaches.. If people don't think he won't he did when the US credit rating dropped due to his lack of leadership... Taxes on everyone will go up and businesses will be hiring less. Oh and those Unemployment checks will most likely go back to just 26 weeks...

vanwadreamer — December 5, 2012 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Maybe he will win another Nobel award for doing what?*

*BTW why did he win that award in the first place, can you answer that????...*

Kool-aid Kool-aid tastes great, Kool-aid Kool-aid can't wait! Here ya go vanwa, it's not Fox or Limbaugh, but it will have to do.

Reality can be a tough sell in today's America...

**The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009**

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYS7aQ...

A look at the preparative process wingers are structuring for the RNC in 2016.

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Can we retrain our drug dogs to not indicate marijuana, or will we need to get all new drug detection dogs?"

If a dog alerts to a legal substance and an illegal one is uncovered is that a legal discovery?

Drift — December 5, 2012 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 5, 2012 at 12:44 p.m.

If the dog's handler has no way of knowing if the alert is for a legal substance, it seems that the doctrine of "fruit of the poisonous tree" would apply.

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.*

Honestly??????? THAT makes me laugh..where and when has he done this with the American people and the two parties?
Everything I have seen he's done and said is to divide.
This country is at THE most divided I have ever seen in all my soon to be 61 yrs. But, he must not shoulder the entire blame in this, many in the D's party, like Reid, Pelosi, race baiters like Sharpton, Hollywood weirdo's like Moore, the media must be held responsible for their share, oh and we must not forget the sheeples that swallow the lies hook, line and sinker.

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.

Lost your reading skills, huh? Missed the **international** part, did we? Unless of course you consider there to be several nations in the U.S..

vanwa, your last paragraph, just replace Obama with Boehner and you'd be closer to the truth.

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, nope didn't "miss it" I saw, read and understood it...my point is, he won the prize, big deal, yet he does nothing to pull his own country together, nothing to pull the elected together to work for the people like they should etc...so no need for the snippy comment about "reading skills" juvenile at its best

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One more thing...count how many times over the course of the last 4 yrs has Obama said that the elected as well as us need to work together????????? Has it happened? Has he made an effect, have any of them ( D's as well as R's)?????

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


oops "effort" not "effect"

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 3:21 p.m

Just like ALL relationships, it takes two! If the R's hadn't mandated their dislike and opposition to the President, maybe, just maybe, they could be able to work together although, if you listen to Frobert, the President doesn't work with the House.

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, EL.....

How would YOU suggest he do that?

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hang tough Dems...

**Tim Geithner: Obama 'Absolutely' Prepared To Go Over Fiscal Cliff**

WASHINGTON -- Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Wednesday that President Barack Obama’s administration is “absolutely” willing to go off the so-called fiscal cliff if Republicans refuse to increase taxes on the nation’s top earners.

During an interview with CNBC, Geithner was asked if the White House was willing to dive off the cliff if Republicans don’t accept a deal that raise tax rates for those making more than $250,000.

“Oh, absolutely," he responded. "Again, there's no prospect in an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2 percent of the wealthiest."

Geithner’s comments offer the strongest indication that Obama would accept the automatic spending cuts and tax rate increases that kick in if an agreement is not reached before the Dec. 31 deadline.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/timothy-geithner-fiscal-cliff_n_2247457.html

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Hawkeye, first off the Pres. doesn't work with the house, he suggest, house votes, Pres. can veto. But, House can also override the Pres. and veto him.
He (the pres.) can tell the house what he wants, but what ends up on his desk might be different. Then the pres, has to decide to keep or to veto and send house back to chambers for more work.

How would I get all to work together? Tell both house and senate to shape up stop the bickering, lies and name tagging, compromise on what is good for the country, not just for themselves. If they can't, then those in those seats need to leave the office. I'd hold each and everyone of them accountable, can't do the job, then adios amigo. He does have the power to tell the house, to get their tails in chambers, come to a compromise and don't come to me until you do. No breaks, no vacations, no nothing until this gets done. He can do this, it has been done by past presidents, why doesn't he do it now? I see it as he wants it his way or no way..no compromising from him so how can we expect any from the house or senate?

Look Hawkeye, I'm not placing all the blame on the pres., I'm blaming both parties. Never since I started voting have I ever been so disgusted and angry with both parties as I am now.
I'm sick of the fighting, race baiting, the untold amounts of money thrown around to programs we don't need or can't afford.
They need to get back to basics, basic needs of the people, the basic needs to run the government, research in technology and medicine, education etc..
Instead of pouring money into finding out how much cow, and deer flatulence plays a part in global warming that money could be used for education of our young, helping the homeless, finding a new drug for cancer, AIDS, or a new antibiotic. Just to name one stupid way of throwing money out the window.
I suggest you get into some of the gov. web sites for yourself and check on where and to what your tax dollars are going for.
Amazing.. the most BS programs the tax dollars are going to that could be used for the good of all.

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama Warns GOP Against Debt Ceiling Fight: "I Will Not Play That Game"

At a Business Roundtable meeting today, President Obama warned Republicans to not use the debt ceiling as leverage in talks over spending cuts or entitlement cuts. Obama told business leaders they "should not accept going through" that "game" which would be a "catastrophe" for the country.

"That is a bad strategy for America, it's a bad strategy for your businesses and it's not a game that I will play," Obama said.

"I will not play that game, because we've got to break that habit before it starts," Obama later added.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/05/obama_warns_gop_against_debt_ceiling_fight_i_will_not_play_that_game.html

No compromising once again.

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Pelosi: The President Put Forth an ‘Excellent Proposal’ -- Got 0 Votes

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said President Barack Obama’s budget for 2013, which got zero votes in Congress, Democrat or Republican, was “an excellent proposal” for talks dealing with the so-called fiscal cliff.

During a Capitol Hill press conference, Pelosi was asked: “What is the Democratic contingency if the [federal] debt limit isn’t raised before the end of the year and Republicans demand?”

elosi said, “Well, the president has put forth in his budget what I believe to be an excellent proposal. We have said in our budget that passed under the leadership of Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) where we think all of this should go. It’s a negotiation.”

“Now, if we can take the middle-income tax cuts off the table, then we have end the hostage-taking that the Republicans have been engaged in: ‘We’re not going to do that unless you give tax cuts to the wealthy,’” Pelosi said. “I think that clears the debate to find areas of agreement as we go forward.”

“But I’m not going to put forth what that is here today because we go to the table to negotiate,” she added.

President Obama’s fiscal year 2013 budget, which would have added $6.4 trillion in new deficits over 10 years, received zero votes in Congress. The House defeated the budget 414-0 in March, while the Senate struck it down 99-0 in May. The budget included additional stimulus spending and raising taxes on upper-income earners.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-president-put-forth-excellent-proposal-got-0-votes

ELISI — December 5, 2012 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr. obama scares me. a lot.

of all the leaders we've had, this one is unique. he's not a president, he's a dictator.

he isn't bothered by the restrictions on the executive office put in the constitution.

as nixon believed, "if the president does it, it's not illegal". obama takes that and creates a constitution-ignoring, irs-blackmailing and justice department strong-arming gang.

already, we've got demands, not negoiations. unilateral acts that *should* be approved by congress.

the next four years will be, at best, a learning experience.

i pray that our country can eventually recover. but based on chicago's current third world situation, i'm not hopeful.

DeeLittle — December 5, 2012 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I know I am a little behind here, but I want to talk about electricity consumption like Drift has mentioned.

The military has privatized its on base housing. While you still pay your entire housing allowance for "rent" it includes your utilities, there is a catch.

The housing operator analyzes consumption quarterly to determine a "baseline" based upon house size (that is number of bedrooms not people). So if you use less than your baseline, you get a refund (I saw 2 in 2 years in CA). If you go over the baseline, you pay the excess (don't want to talk about how many times I did that).

Like I said, the baseline is determined by number of rooms, not people. When I discussed this at a neighborhood townhall (the military will put together anything to make it feel good) I was informed that there was a study about that done. It was determined that there was no significant difference in consumption between a family of four and a family of six.

What about my family of eight? With three teenagers?

But I have figured out that it is because no one is interested in logic if it cuts into their bottom line. It is true with many agencies in todays America (private and public).

danabwoodley — December 5, 2012 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, first off, there can be NO negotiations if people WON'T sit down and talk. Also, I suspect there are a lot of people that scare you.

EL, I've looked at a few things that really freak me out. There was one deal where the Government is spending $500,000,000 a year on "nano-technology". WHY? Shouldn't that be done at universities or high tech businesses that want to get into that business?

Did you ever see the movie "Dave"? Why is the government spending millions of dollars making people feel good about their already purchased Chevy?

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — December 5, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.

A family of EIGHT!!!!! Seriously? Then you deserve to pay more.

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So, you should have gotten a four bedroom place?

Drift — December 5, 2012 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was reading a Reuters article, and it maintains that if Congress refuses to give the President the authority to raise the debt limit, he can then veto that decision. Reporters that report on these stories really need to read the Constitution, the President cannot "veto" Congress' refusal to pass his legislation. The President has no authority to introduce legislation for a reason.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/06/us-usa-fiscal-debt-idUSBRE8B501720121206

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


from what I understand-

the "red states", on the average, get $1.50 back in money intended for "social safety net" money for every dollar they pay in taxes, etc. The "blue states" get 75 cents on the dollar paid back to them in federal and state money. So it appears the red-ie. conservative folks-are the folks on the end of this redistribution of wealth they disdain. Ironic. They really are, for the most part, Mitten's 47% or "freeloaders" or "takers"-whatever. Seems weird, these same folks have coined another term, the "re-distibutionists" when, in fact, they are the receipients of said re-distribution. I thought one doesn't bite the hand that feeds them, but whatever.

The most respected survey and polling data, I thought it was the General Survey Services, but not. Anyway, this organization's data is the primary source for researchers and folks doing studies on social trends. A couple of their findings-by a 2 to 1 margin-people that identified themselves as conservatives felt the US spent too much on defense and too little on social safety net #1, don't remember the exact wording. By a 3 to 1 margin they felt we spent too little on the other social issue and too much on defense. Only 7.3% of people that identified themselves as conservatives felt the US was spending too much on social safety net things and too little on military defense. It seems the disarray in the Republican party today is the tremendous disconnect between, for example, Paul Ryan's vouchers for health care and what folks really want. Probably explains why Mittens and Co couldn't carry Florida.

Anytime and everytime some politician wants to prvatize something, that corporate schill is wanting to claim that corporate America can do it more efficiently. If that's the case, why does the semi-privatization of health care (affordable health care act) only require an 80% return of premiums? That's about 8% lower than the federal government is now doing. You don't think that 8% is going to be sucked off in corporate profits, do you? And corporate America is going to be a "kinder, gentler" entity? If you believe this nonsense, I've got something for sell and it doesn't matter what, but I'll sell it to you-you need it.

mrd — December 5, 2012 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Low after low after low after low aft...

**What the Republican Party has become**

*Senate Republicans play politics with a landmark civil rights law -- championed by Bob Dole -- and hit a new low*

The failure of the Senate on Tuesday to ratify a U.N. treaty aimed at creating equal opportunity for disabled people around the world says a lot about the modern evolution of the Republican Party.

It was Republican votes – 38 of them – that derailed the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which needed a two-thirds supermajority for ratification. Only seven Republicans voted for the treaty and not a single Democrat voted against it. This came despite the presence of a GOP luminary, former Senate Majority Bob Dole, now 89 and frail, who was wheeled into the chamber in a last-minute effort to rally support.

Dole’s passion stems from his own disabled status (a World War II injury shattered his right arm, which hasn’t been functional since) and from the leading role he played in what remains the enduring civil rights achievement for the disabled in this country: the enactment of the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/05/what_the_republican_party_has_become/

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 8:12 p.m.

Your article confuses "civil rights law" and treaty. The Senate should under no circumstances cede any part of our domestic policy to the United Nations. This is not the intent of the treaty clause and is contrary to our sovereignty.

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL! A great example!

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5p9ep...

frobert/anyone- Hope this helps.

Common sense ain't so common anymore.

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why would I watch someone as unreasonable and inflexible as Maddow?

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In case you haven't noticed, all civil rights in this country are the direct result of Republican efforts. Abdicating our sovereignty to the United Nations has absolutely nothing to do with Civil Rights.

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Why would I watch someone as unreasonable and inflexible as Maddow?*

Because you see yourself in her?

Give it a go fro...tell me what you disagree with. It's a pretty mindful/heady conversation if you're up for it. Don't worry, you won't turn into a pillar of salt or anything.

At least I don't think...

Understanding conservatives by nature are inherently prone to Metathesiophobia, I understand change is difficult, to include forming rational outside of what's familiar and fits into your boxed ideological mindset.

Free yourself.

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.

"Free yourself."

I don't follow anybody's party line, I am already free.

frobert — December 5, 2012 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Your mind fro, your mind, anyway...happy holidays.

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Vatican's PR Revolution**

"I think we are in an experimental stage," the genial Lombardi, wearing a wry grin, told reporters in September when asked how the new communications arrangement was going.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/vatican-communications-beyond-twitter_n_2241526.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girW7n...

nailingit — December 5, 2012 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**FROBERT**

allowing for my paranoia, when i read your post the first thing that came into my mind was all that hollow-point ammo the feds bought.

DeeLittle — December 5, 2012 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Hey Dee, I bought a bunch too.

fro, if you don't align with any party, you shouldn't have a problem with Maddow.

BTW, nail.... I love Rachel, saw her on Letterman the other night, she was great. Like always.

hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 5, 2012 at 11:07 p.m.

She is the same as FOX News, I won't watch them either.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The best way to clamp down on conservatism? Outlaw it! Congrats to all affected citizens!

**Legalizing Marijuana: Washington Law Goes Into Effect, Allowing Recreational Use Of Drug**

SEATTLE — The crowds of happy people lighting joints under Seattle's Space Needle early Thursday morning with nary a police officer in sight bespoke the new reality: Marijuana is legal under Washington state law.

Hundreds gathered at Seattle Center for a New Year's Eve-style countdown to 12 a.m., when the legalization measure passed by voters last month took effect. When the clock struck, they cheered and sparked up in unison.

A few dozen people gathered on a sidewalk outside the north Seattle headquarters of the annual Hempfest celebration and did the same, offering joints to reporters and blowing smoke into television news cameras.

"I feel like a kid in a candy store!" shouted Hempfest volunteer Darby Hageman. "It's all becoming real now!"

..

The mood was festive in Seattle as dozens of gay and lesbian couples got in line to pick up marriage licenses at the King County auditor's office early Thursday.

King County and Thurston County announced they would open their auditors' offices shortly after midnight Wednesday to accommodate those who wanted to be among the first to get their licenses.

Kelly Middleton and her partner Amanda Dollente got in line at 4 p.m. Wednesday.

Hours later, as the line grew, volunteers distributed roses and a group of men and women serenaded the waiting line to the tune of "Going to the Chapel."

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/legalizing-marijuana-washington-state_n_2249238.html

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 6:54 a.m.

Legalizing marijuana is a very conservative thing to do. Regulating every aspect of our daily lives is the liberal thing to do.

Before you start quoting some neocon, keep in mind that they are liberal from a true conservative standpoint.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- *She is the same as FOX News, I won't watch them either.*

Just curious, were you home schooled?

hawk- I might even watch the Grammy's this year. Very cool!

**Rachel Maddow Picks Up Grammy Nomination For Best Spoken Word Album**

Rachel Maddow was nominated for a Grammy Award. The nominations were announced on Wednesday.

Maddow was nominated for Best Spoken Word Album with her book, "Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power." She shares the category nomination with Ellen DeGeneres, Bill Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama.

A number of politicians have been nominated and subsequently won Grammy Awards in this category before. President Barack Obama won in 2008 with his book "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream." He also won in 2006 with his book "Dreams From My Father."

Clinton picked up the prestigious award one year earlier—in 2005—with his book "My Life." Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also won in this category in 1997 with her book "It Takes A Village."

The 2013 Grammy Awards will take place on Feb. 10 on CBS.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/rachel-maddow-grammy-nomination-best-spoken-word-album_n_2249568.html?ref=topbar

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It is time that the Washington State legislature stepped up to the plate and made changes to some laws unaffected by initiative 502. The 40 gram cutoff for a felony drug possession conviction is one of the strictest in the country. Over 40 grams can get you 5 years in Washington and traditionally conservative Texas 5 pounds only gets you two. In Louisiana you have to have 60 pounds for felony conviction.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


About that U.N. Treaty thing...

**Jon Stewart: Have Republicans Hit 'Rock Bottom' With Failed United Nations Disability Treaty? (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/jon-stewart-republicans-rock-bottom-united-nations_n_2249610.html

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*In Louisiana you have to have 60 pounds for felony conviction.*

No. Unless these sites have it wrong.

http://www.legaljoint.net/state_by_state/Louisiana.asp?p=Louisiana&state;=24&mmj;=2

http://www.mpp.org/states/louisiana/

http://www.theweedblog.com/marijuana-policy-in-louisiana/

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 7:35 a.m.

I use norml.org, your site lists Louisiana as having no felony for any amount on the first offense, I trust my source better.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 7:24 a.m.

The United States is the "gold standard" for civil rights, ceding this authority to other countries can only serve to dilute our current laws. We cannot lead by following.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hopefully in a couple years we'll get a provision for personal cultivation... and I can let my medicinal recommendation laps.

Drift — December 6, 2012 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We're not "ceding" any authority with the Disability Treaty. Just silly paranoid Wing stuff.

Why are you afraid to view Maddow or a differing opinion?

I'm serious and no offense meant, were you home schooled?

And you really think you can drive through bumtruck Louisiana with 50 plus lbs of dope, get pulled over by Boss Hawg and he'll just write you a ticket...at worst a night in lock up and a misdemeanor charge.

:)

Maybe "norm(a)l needs an update.

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good news!

**Jim DeMint To Heritage Foundation: Senator To Leave Position To Run Think Tank**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/jim-demint-heritage-foundation_n_2250229.html

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Leaving the surreal basement mindset for a change...what people think above ground.

**Poll: Obama's approval rating at highest level since bin Laden's death**

President Obama’s approval rating has spiked to a three-year high in the aftermath of the 2012 election, according to a survey released Thursday by Quinnipiac University.

Fifty-three percent said they approve of the job the president is doing, compared with 40 percent who said they disapprove. In the previous survey conducted by Quinnipiac, in July, Obama’s approval rating was under water, at 45 percent positive and 49 negative.

Obama’s high point in the survey came in June of 2009, shortly after he was inaugurated, when he scored 59 positive and 31 percent negative.

“Nothing like winning an election to boost your job approval,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, in a statement. “President Barack Obama hasn't had a score this good since his 52-40 percent approval rating May 5, 2011, right after the death of Osama bin Laden.”

*Additionally, those surveyed said they trusted Obama and the Democrats by a wide margin over Republicans to handle the “fiscal cliff.” Fifty-three percent said they had more confidence in Democrats, against 36 for the Republicans. A majority said they believe Obama and the Democrats will make a good-faith effort in the “fiscal cliff” negotiations, while a majority said they didn’t expect the same from Republicans.*

*Voters support the president’s proposal to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year by an even wider margin, 65-31. A plurality of voters support raising capital gains taxes, and majorities oppose cuts to Medicaid, raising the Medicare eligibility age and cutting military spending.*

Sixty-six percent said the best way to reduce the deficit would be through a combination of tax increases and spending cuts.

When asked about Grover Norquist’s pledge to never raise taxes under any circumstances, signed by some Republicans, 85 percent said it was a bad idea to sign a no-tax pledge, including 77 percent of Republicans, compared to only 15 percent who said they supported it.

The Quinnipiac University poll of 1,949 registered voters was conducted between Nov. 28 and Dec. 3. Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,949 registered voters nationwide, giving the poll a margin of error of 2.2 percentage points.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/271407-poll-obama-approval-rating-spikes-strong-support-on-fiscal-cliff-negotiations

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In case you haven't noticed, **all civil rights in this country are the direct result of Republican efforts**. Abdicating our sovereignty to the United Nations has absolutely nothing to do with Civil Rights.
frobert — December 5, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.

Really?

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 8:25 a.m.

Senator DeMint is one of the few that would make a stand and try to allow poor asthmatics to get the inhalers they needed. Our two Senators were more than willing to allow constituents to suffer and die for the sake of special interest.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.

I was discussing facts not your liberal revisionist "history". Civil rights are a direct result of the fourteenth amendment, and it did not receive a single democrat vote in the House or Senate.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal! As you well know, frobert provides quite the smorgasbord of shooting gallery grade political points. Good to see you.

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*more than willing to allow constituents to suffer and die for the sake of special interest.*

I thought about your inhaler crusade when you voiced opposition to a treaty helping America's handicapped abroad, to include our veteran's...

Funny you should mention it. Even I wasn't going to go there. :) But ty.

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 6, 2012 at 9:44 a.m

We can start way before the 14th.....

Before the Republican Party was founded.

Maybe a few comments from you on why Reagan started his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi is in order; you know, to clear the "revisionist" history.....

Might also want to read up on North Carolina's history....

Further, speaking of "revisionist", find an inaccurate fact in Zinn's * APeople's History*

Show us.

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And care to speak to the Republican votes against the CR Act of **19**64?

Goldwater?

Nixon's 'Southern Stratagy'?

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldwater was quite clear why he voted against the Act, because it violated personal property rights. He fully supported its constraints on government. As a side note Goldwater on more than one occasion used his personal funds to NAACP of Arizona afloat.

Sorry but the "southern strategy" as most liberals see it is a myth. Unlike the democrats the republicans have never condoned racism.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.

Interesting that you would bring up Zinn, as his opinion on the republican party remaining mostly the same more closely resembles mine than yours.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***IN OTHER NEWS***

Conservative Senator Jim DeMint Stepping Down to Run Heritage Foundation

Senator Jim DeMint, the conservative Republican from South Carolina who helped spark the Tea Party movement, will leave the Senate to become president of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.

hawkeye — December 6, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk- *IN OTHER NEWS*...@ 8:25...good news it is!

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Has anybody else noticed all the news stories claiming that Washington is the first state to legalize marijuana, when in fact up to 4 ounces or 24 plants have been legal in Alaska since 1975?

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry but **the "southern strategy" as most liberals see it is a myth.** Unlike the democrats the **republicans have never condoned racism.**

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

Speaking of "revisionist".

And, we note, unsupported........

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Something a few here might want to sign up for

https://www.coursera.org/course/thinkagain

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.

Let us know when you've found the relevant passages in A Peoples' History or other writings that support that claim.

And, just to keep you honest, we note no rebuttal to :

And care to speak to the Republican votes against the CR Act of 1964?

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:26 a.m

AND

We can start way before the 14th.....

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:19 a.m

AND

Might also want to read up on North Carolina's history....

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 10:19 a.m

Maybe we can see your 'required reading list' What's there after 'the Constitution as explained through my eyes' ?

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.

"And, we note, unsupported........"

My statements are more supported than yours, you made the claims about the "Southern strategy" it is up to you to support them.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 11:49 a.m.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression you had actually read A Peoples' History, and could discuss its meaning. Zinn refers to the "conservative north" and attempts to link Lincoln with a more modern caricature of republicanism. Zinn certainly does not claim either way, regarding the revisionist "switch" therefore it is implicit that it did not happen.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 6, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.

Your claim was: "Sorry but the "southern strategy" as most liberals see it is a myth.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

It really is up to you to support your claim that it is being misrepresented by "liberals". Show us some documentation.

And we note yet again, you haven't addressed:

republicans have never condoned racism.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

AND we also note your continued silence on the Republican votes against the CR Act of **19**64.

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.

No, it is not up to me to claim that something didn't happen, it is up to you, as the person that is claiming it did.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***OMG!!!!***

Looks like

IS TOO

IS NOT

IS TOO

IS NOT!

IS TOO!!

IS NOT, READ THIS!

WAAAAAAAAAH

hawkeye — December 6, 2012 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics*

Lets see, make fun of other countries leaders , right there in plane sight and on TV...Obama has never been an international player in politics....Iran, Iraq, Mexico, China, Argentina Oh and our great neighbors to our North. Canada...

*Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts*
Yeah I like the negotiations he is doing with Pakistan and Afganistan.and Iran and Israel. Those are working right...Oh and that little conflict he stirred up in Libya, yeah thats working out well too...

*Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future.
Promises, promises , promises... Hope and change was four years ago...Look what it has gotten us,,,, A partial Dictator at best with very low morals... ...

His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.*
He doesn't know how to spell diplomacy let alone Values......

After spending a week back east working with victims of Super Storm Sandy I am continually not surprised by the lack of effort that is going on. Still so many people living in homes that have no power but continue to live in them as that is all they have... People have made make shift repairs just to get back into there homes that leak all around from the damage that the storm produced...So what does he do, he is off to that great place in the South Pacific for what three weeks... Playing BB and Golf.. Is that what a leader does?? I guess that's why you Love him so much.... If he spent three weeks in NJ efforting the cleanup and maybe handing out food and clothes to people and do some picture opps he could have win another award..maybe one earned....He is not a leader as I pointed out several times. When your own millitary that can be best described as a team doesn't have your back, that should have told the people who voted for him a month ago that we needed change... I worked with over 800 people while I was back there and I would say the super majority of those who voted for him think he has NOT done enough NOR has Fema nor Christie... So continue your personal onlsaught of those that arn't buying what your spilling, There isn't enough cool aid out there for you....

You still haven't answered my question.. I'll give you another shot..

Why did he win the Nobel Peace Prize??? Specifically what did he do to earn that award... See if you can come up with a specific thing, just one thing he actually "DID" out of many I'm sure he did that helped him earn that award... I'll buy you a cup of coffee or your fav beverage if you can name just one thing he did that helped him earn that prize..

Respectfully

vanwadreamer — December 6, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WASHINGTON (AP) — New campaign finance figures for the final two weeks of the 2012 campaign show that Las Vegas casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife gave $10 million to a "super" political committee supporting losing GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

Adelson, who owns casinos in Las Vegas, Singapore and the Chinese territory of Macau, has been the top donor in the 2012 race, providing more than $54 million supporting Romney and other GOP presidential candidates and an additional $18 million for other Republicans. The new $10 million figure for Adelson and his wife, Miriam, is for the pro-Romney Restore Our Future super PAC, but their totals could grow as final campaign finance tallies are reported Thursday.

Adelson had vowed to spend more than $100 million on GOP causes this election cycle.

He owns the Venetian and The Sands casinos in Vegas.

hawkeye — December 6, 2012 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- *After spending a week back east working with victims of Super Storm Sandy*

Did you take your Vancouver small business owner friend who spends 5 million plus $$$ annually in local advertising?

These increased feelings of detachment & abandonment you're experiencing should decrease with time. Use it as a window to change your way of thinking. A de-programming period.

You've suffered great loss recently, but at the expense of a better reality. Be thankful for those of us who vote responsibly and save folks such as yourself, from themselves.

Obama's President...again, Dem Senate majority strengthened, seats added to the House, Dick Armey paid off to leave Freedom Works, DeMint runs from the Senate, Allen West 86'ed, people telling you the earth is round and not 6 thousand years old, pot legal, gay marriage signed into law, dogs and cats living together,,,,MY GOD!!!!!

Breathe deeply, slowly, but it's totally up to you to do so continually. The world is getting better. In spite of ourselves.

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A category one is a "Super Storm"? That's not what we called them all the years I lived in the Northeast.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Violence Against Women Act Stalled By Eric Cantor Over Native American Protections**

Cantor's insistence on keeping the tribal jurisdictional provision out of VAWA has infuriated some backers of the Senate bill and elicited vows to prevent any VAWA bill from advancing that doesn't protect all victims of abuse. Terry O’Neill, the president of the National Organization for Women and someone who regularly talks to people directly involved in VAWA negotiations, called Cantor's stance "completely outrageous."

"Who is Eric Cantor to say that it's okay for some women to get beaten and raped?" O'Neill said. "If they happen to be Native women who are attacked by a non-Native man, as far as Eric Cantor is concerned, those women are tossed."

O'Neill's incendiary and extreme charge highlights the intense passion that has engulfed the negotiations around the bill.

The NOW president said she didn't know why the GOP leader was so opposed to keeping the provision, since it has the backing of the Justice Department. She said any concerns about constitutional laws being circumvented on tribal lands have already been vetted. Regardless, she said she doesn't expect the White House or Democratic lawmakers to cave on the provision.

"We are not going to leave behind sisters who have been brutally raped," O'Neill said.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/violence-against-women-act-eric-cantor-native-americans_n_2251924.html

nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 6, 2012 at 3:41 p.m.

So without this legislation rape is legal? Don't our lawmakers have anything better to do than outlaw something that is already a felony in every jurisdiction in the country?

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just have to say: I spent several hours today at the Clark County auditor's office supporting and cheering on the happy couples, most of whom were same gender partners, as they obtained their WA legal marriage licenses!

There was beautiful harp music in the hall, tasty treats donated by various citizens, and free coffee from Starbuck's in Hazel Dell, not to mention beaming faces of the committed couples and Equality SW Washington volunteers.

Congratulations one and all. May your marriages be full of love and joy!

manthou — December 6, 2012 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 6, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

Let us know when you can actually cite your support.

Library has a copy.

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Your claim was: "Sorry but the "southern strategy" as most liberals see it is a myth.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

It really is up to you to support your claim that it is being misrepresented by "liberals". Show us some documentation.

And we note yet again, you haven't addressed:

republicans have never condoned racism.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

AND we also note your continued silence on the Republican votes against the CR Act of 1964.

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 4:15 p.m.

Again, burden of proof. It is not possible to prove that something didn't happen therefore it is up to you to prove that it did.

...and I did address Republican votes against CR Act of 1964, they were only opposed to Title II, because it violated personal property rights.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


.and I did address Republican votes against CR Act of 1964, they were only opposed to Title II, because it violated personal property rights.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 4:20 p.m.

B. Goldwater was the only Republican to vote against it?

I'd be seriously looking for some sources that have a substantive amount of support for your claims.......

Like Zinn.

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.

With the possible exception of Zinn's writting, which is my opinion, based on excerpts I have read, the burden of proof falls to you. But in your normal form, if you can't back up your statements you attempt to shift the burden of proof to the other person. I can't prove that something didn't happen the burden of proof is on you to prove that it did.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


“Segregation in the South is honest, open and aboveboard. Of the two systems, or styles of segregation, the Northern and the Southern, there is no doubt whatever in my mind which is the better.”

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


With the possible exception of Zinn's writting, which is my opinion, **based on excerpts I have read**...,
frobert — December 6, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression you had actually read A Peoples' History, and could discuss its meaning. Zinn refers to the "conservative north" and attempts to link Lincoln with a more modern caricature of republicanism. Zinn certainly does not claim either way, regarding the revisionist "switch" therefore it is implicit that it did not happen.

frobert — December 6, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

Ahhh, that explains why there were no quotes to support your "opinion".

mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 6, 2012 at 5:02 p.m.

A racist quote from a democrat, trying to prove that republicans are racist?

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 3:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever"
Democrat Governor George Wallace

"Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." -- Former Klansman and current US Democrat Senator Robert Byrd

“A few years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee.” Democrat Bill Clinton

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 4:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, I didn't take the "current" out of the Byrd quote.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 4:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 6, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.

Good one. Brought a smile to my face. Looks like the mudslinging continues! Same old, same old.

...

BTW...to all who support the current Washington Marijuana Legalization...could be your little celebration is only temporary. Apparently the Feds are setting up to battle Washington and Colorado on their new laws.

Nice way for the G-man to find out just how extensive the marijuana issue is in our state. And to those folks who lit up in public in front of the cameras once the law was passed...

***ARE YOU IDIOTS???***

*Did you not read the context of the new laws???*

Stupid is as stupid does!

goldenoldie — December 7, 2012 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lacking integrity, vision and hindsight, the GOP is coming apart at the seams.

**The GOP Faces Years in the Wilderness After 2012 Election Losses**

So here is the Republican Party reinventing itself. The GOP majority in the Ohio legislature rushes to defund Planned Parenthood in its post-election session. The orange-tinted speaker of the House proposes to undo Obamacare through “oversight” in the name of “solving our debt and restoring prosperity.” Never mind that health-care reform doesn’t raise the deficit but reduces it. Or that “a new low,” 33 percent of Americans, the anti-Obama bitter-enders, still favor repealing the law (PDF). And a rising star in the GOP future, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, offers a dim view out of the pre-Darwinian past that maybe the Earth was created in seven days—and that since “theologians” disagree, we should teach “multiple theories.”

This doesn’t sound like rethinking, or thinking at all, but like the reflex and revanchism of a party that doesn’t comprehend or simply can’t respond to the dimensions of its 2012 defeat. There’s not just the delicious irony that maladroit Mitt Romney, the 47 percent man, will end up with 47 percent of the vote. Outside the South, President Obama defeated his opponent 55 to 45 percent, winning a landslide there as well as in the Electoral College. The bottom line: Romney got elected president of the old confederacy.

..

Can the GOP catch up? It’s not just a matter of technology. There is a “pressing and alarming deficit in human capital.” A sophisticated process doesn’t run itself. Thus the imperative of recruiting “a new generation” of Republican operatives; for example, from the “libertarian-minded minority in Silicon Valley.” But why would libertarian geeks flock to a party that argues for big government interference in the most private aspects of people’s lives, and that discriminates against the gay or lesbian techie who sits nearby in the same open-plan space?

The day after the election, the deputy GOP leader in the Senate, John Cornyn, predicted a “period of reflection and recalibration ahead.” But it’s hard to envision the party realigning itself to the new and real America.

Instead, in the throes of their self-proclaimed reexamination, many Republicans remind me of a scene in Theodore H. White’s classic The Making of the President 1960. JFK spoke in the Boston garden on the last night of the campaign, with politicians and ward heelers smoking cigars arranged in rows behind him. As the crowd cheered, White wrote, a look passed across their faces. You could see what the pols were thinking: Kennedy has a trick; if only I could figure it out, I could be president.

It was a false and easy conceit. And if what the GOP looks for now is a trick, what it will find is a way deeper into the wilderness.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/the-gop-faces-years-in-the-wilderness-after-2012-election-losses.html

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d8x_y2bAHY

A special treat for basement conservatives who hold Christmas and it's meaning dear to their hearts.

Our newly elected President and his beautiful family ceremoniously lighting the 2012 Christmas tree.

But if you miss this one, watch for a President Obama family lighting in 2013. 2014, 2015, 2016.....

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 7:19 a.m.

"winning a landslide there as well as in the Electoral College"

No, here are some examples of "landslides"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S...

My question is, did the democrats recover?

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Apologies to those looking forward to the Christmas tree lighting vid. Site is experiencing some tech difficulties.

Will re-post vid when fixed!

Go ahead and get out last night's popcorn.

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- Your comments are better directed to Robert Shrum @ Daily Beast.

---

I'm watching Boehner give a press conference. Man does he look disheveled. On his heels! No tie! He missed a button! Split ends! His voice is squeaking! He's toast!!

Anyway...:))

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Apparently the Feds are setting up to battle Washington and Colorado on their new laws."

I've no doubt, goldie. I wonder if your statement is a general one or if you can point me to something of substance.

Yeah, folks fire'ing up for the cameras was a bit puerile, IMHO. Possibly a civil disobedience type statement? And then again, possibly nothing more than idiots. I dunno.

Drift — December 7, 2012 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 3:54 a.m. (

Check your political history. Especially WHEN he switched to the Republican party.

And maybe look into a few of the comments from REPublican eulogists upon his death.

But then, we are dealing with a libertarian/conservative "revisionist" history......

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


@ 8:06- This is why! The Orange guy is going toe to toe with our President!

Don't take any tobacco payoffs Obama! A driver against a wedge. I think Obama will hit it farther.

Boehner can't run to McConnell for help, McConnell is busy filibustering his own bills!

:))))) Nothing like right wing politics for humor!

**'Fiscal Cliff' Talks Down To Obama, John Boehner**

WASHINGTON, Dec 7 (Reuters) - *With about three weeks left before the "fiscal cliff" deadline, the task of avoiding the steep tax hikes and spending cuts was down to talks between Republican House Speaker John A. Boehner and President Barack Obama, according to Capitol Hill aides.*

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi are "being kept in the loop," said an aide close to Democratic leaders, ready to work out any details.

"The White House and Boehner have the most to work out, so they do the most talking," he said on Friday.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/fiscal-cliff-talks_n_2257111.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And, btw, we're still waiting for:

And care to speak to the Republican votes against the CR Act of 1964?

Goldwater?

Nixon's 'Southern Stratagy'?

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 7, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.

NYT has an article discussing some of the politics involved at the Federal level.

"Federal officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter. Several cautioned that the issue had raised complex legal and policy considerations — including enforcement priorities, litigation strategy and the impact of international antidrug treaties — that remain unresolved, and that no decision was imminent."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/marijuana-initiatives-in-2-states-set-federal-officials-scrambling.html?

Those that want to make it illegal again are grasping for anything for support.

And it is a long way from overturning:

"The police department believes that, under state law, you may responsibly get baked, order some pizzas and enjoy a `Lord of the Rings' marathon in the privacy of your own home, if you want to." http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/12/05/officers-shall-not-take-any-enforcement-action-other-than-to-issue-a-verbal-warning-for-a-violation-of-i-502/

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


a lot of public faces recorded for you-tube fall into the 'idiot' catagory. their parents must be sooo proud.

*"I was discussing facts not your liberal revisionist "history". Civil rights are a direct result of the fourteenth amendment, and it did not receive a single democrat vote in the House or Senate."*

having been in that part of the country at that particular time, i can personally attest to the **real** racism. 'white only in grill' signs in restaurants. three restrooms; men, women, colored. two water fountains, whites and coloreds.

if a white woman was walking down the street, the colored person stepped into the street until she passed.

now, when was the last time we've seen anything like that? ***THAT'S*** racism. don't dare TRIVIALIZE what was going on by using it for petty politics (not to you frobert).

DeeLittle — December 7, 2012 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- Obama's got an uphill battle if he interferes with state laws.

Obama needs to channel Barry Obama. If Barack would have gotten popped with some Kona toke back in the day, he never would have become President.

**Marijuana Legalization Poll Finds Americans Want Federal Government To Leave States Alone**

On Thursday, Washington became the first state to officially legalize marijuana, soon to be followed by Colorado as their new laws legalizing the drug for recreational use go into effect. A survey out Friday shows what Americans want the federal government to do about the states whose drug laws clash with national laws: Leave them alone.

Fifty-one percent of Americans in the new HuffPost/YouGov poll said that in the two states that have legalized marijuana use for adults, the federal government should exempt any adults following state laws from federal drug law enforcement. *Only 30 percent said the federal government should enforce its drug laws in those states in the same way it does in any other state.*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/marijuana-legalization-poll_n_2257106.html

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 4:11 a.m.

"the most egregious mistake I've ever made."

Byrd made a major change in his understanding of civil rights.

Wallace, when it was obvious that his positions were unrepresentative of the Democratic party , went third party.

Strom switched to R. and was eulogized for his position on Civil Rights.

So both of your attempts are very unrepresentative of the positions of the Democratic party.

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


To whom it may concern:

I contacted John Hill about the non clickable links and he is working on it.

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A few things I've noticed about racism.

Racists love to talk about it, it's always blind to itself, and it's never apologetic.

And of course, it's always.."colorful".

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Since the 14th is being discussed here (and there)

The White House signaled Thursday that President Barack Obama would not use the Constitution to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling in the event of a standoff with Republicans. But there are plenty of key Democrats who think that wouldn't be such a bad idea.

During his Thursday briefing, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney dismissed the idea that Obama has the constitutional authority to increase the debt limit himself if Congress doesn't do it by early February, when the government is expected to run out of money. The debt ceiling is currently capped at $16.4 trillion.

"This administration does not believe that the 14th Amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling -- period," Carney said.

Carney said the White House has been consistent in opposing that approach, though he noted "there was a period where this was under discussion" during the 2011 debt ceiling fight. Ultimately, though, the White House dismissed the idea, questioning the legality of that option, he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/debt-ceiling-14th-amendment_n_2257610.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Decades before any state had seriously considered legalizing gay marriage, long before anyone had thought of creating—never mind repealing—a policy called “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” before Reagan, before AIDS, before the American Psychiatric Association determined that homosexuality was not a mental illness, and before half the people currently living in America were even born, a man named John Singer stepped into the King County marriage license office in Seattle.

The year was 1971.

With him was another man, Paul Barwick, whom he’d met recently at a meeting of the Seattle chapter of the Gay Liberation Front. Barwick was just back from Vietnam, 24 years old, still coming out of the closet. Singer was a little older, 26, very out and very political. He’d served as an Army medic in Germany because of his conscientious-objector status. In the spot reserved for religion, his military dog tag read: “Ethical Culture.” Earlier, at college in New York, he’d been the only member of his ROTC unit who was also in the SDS—Students for a Democratic Society.

These two men, Singer and Barwick, had become fast friends, occasional lovers, and, in a sense, business partners. “The business was gay liberation,” Barwick, now 65 and living in San Francisco, explained recently.

In front of a bunch of local media that had been tipped off in advance, Singer and Barwick marched up to the desk of the county auditor, a man named Lloyd Hara, and told him they wanted a marriage license. Hara refused.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/101628/gay-marriages-jewish-pioneer

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 7, 2012 at 8:13 a.m

I couldn't find the actual context of the law as it exists. Maybe you could provide it if you have it handy...but according to the State Voters Guide (my source), it states *"No marijuana could be displayed in a way that is visible from a public place. It would be illegal to open or consume any marijuana product on the premises. Licensed marijuana retailers could be fined for violations. This measure would prohibit any person from opening a package containing marijuana in public view."* Not sure how they could prohibit the person from consumption in public if they don't provide details of acquisition but if caught, how would they go about citing the person...especially if they aren't at the place of purchase? I haven't seen anything new regarding public use of marijuana unless the existing laws before the current passage of I-502...the laws for MM and it's use in public view would hold true in this case as well???

Hmm...makes me wonder about that "Smoking in Parks" violation... Another possibly moneymaker for those who govern us??? After all, they've been trying to find creative ways to tax us without being noticed. If it's labeled a citation, some may consider that as another infringement on freedom so that's going to be interesting...how they'd go about it (unless the person is caught with unacceptable levels of THC in their bloodstream, according to recommendations urged by our police force and the medical professionals). Let's see...they could call it a "fee." No, that one's already taken. How 'bout a "toll." Nope...already being used. They could get fancy with "Discovery Pass." Again...already taken.

Wait, HERE'S one...."USIP...User surplus incentive program"...yeah, that's a good one. Maybe they'll tack that one on for anybody caught smokin' the bud on public grounds. If not, there's always the "reefer rap." That one might work as well. Instead of labeling it a citation, they could make those caught smoking in public feel proud for payin' Paul after robbing Peter.

Seems to me there's a lot of loopholes that need to be shored up and it could be those loopholes which has the feds so nervous.

...

And on another note...it's no offense intended to those supporting the new marriage equality law...was it really any of the government's business to implement such a law in the first place??? As far as I'm concerned, what people do in the privacy of their own lives...it's their business. They should have been able to acquire their licenses without government intrusion and without the say of the majority. Flat out...it's their business not ours and certainly not the business of the government...or is it???

My opinion...just another moneymaker by the state.

DANG they're gettin' good!

goldenoldie — December 7, 2012 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail

I found your oiec which you used as a basis for Obama winning the Nobel Prize...Why didn't you add this passage as well which you failed to cut and paste from the same article...

Some believe that Barack Obama has not done anything to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. Here are some opinions from Answers.com contributors who believe that Obama should not have won the Prize:

There has been no intervention on a huge scale by Obama. He has not curtailed any aggressive actions by any foreign state, or even his own. In fact he has increased military actions against the Taliban in Afghanistan. He has not been long on the international circuit and has no international reputation as a peacemaker.

In the past, winners have spent many years of dedicated service to achieve the honour, or have used high office for the furtherance of peace. President Obama has done neither of these.

Obama himself has stated that he does not feel he deserved the award, and that it must be spiritually shared by all the other nominees, but also not "as a recognition of my own accomplishments but rather an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations," and "as a call to action --- a call for all nations to confront the common challenges of the 21st century." He plans to donate the full US$1.4 million monetary award to charity.

Jagland shrugged off the question of whether "the committee feared being labeled naive for accepting a young politician's promises at face value", stating that "no one could deny that 'the international climate' had suddenly improved, and that Mr. Obama was the main reason... 'We want to embrace the message that he stands for.'"

The Norwegian tabloid Verdens Gang has later reported that Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, who represented the right-wing populist Progress Party on the committee, led the way in objecting to the choice of Obama because she questioned his ability to keep his promises. It also said the representative of the Conservative Party, Kaci Kullmann Five, and Aagot Valle, the representative of the Socialist Left, had objections. The choice for Obama was however strongly supported by committee chairman Thorbjoern Jagland and Sissel Roenbeck, both representatives of the Labour Party.
In his will, Alfred Nobel left little to guide those who award the prize. Besides directing that it be awarded by a committee appointed by the Norwegian parliament (though Nobel was a Swede), Nobel said only that it should be given to the person who "...shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift...according to Washington RCW 69.51A.060 (1), It shall be a class 3 civil infraction to use or display medical cannabis in a manner or place which is open to the view of the general public.

A class 3, civil infraction would be a $50 citation. Seems to me, there's a lot of people who would have issues paying that citation these days.

goldenoldie — December 7, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 9 a.m.

Strom Thurmond turned his back on the party of racism, he joined the party of civil rights he put minorities on his staff.

Robert Byrd, continued his bigoted acts until the end, he is the only Senator to vote against both Thurgood Marshal and Clarence Thomas, he was very vocal on his hatred of gays and holds the distinction of being the only Senator to use the (N)word on the Senate floor in the 21st century.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My opinion...just another moneymaker by the state.

DANG they're gettin' good!

goldenoldie — December 7, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.

Maybe not.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/de...

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Continued from above article

By October 2009, when the prize was awarded to him after less than nine months in office, few would argue that President Obama had qualified for the Nobel Peace Prize -- or any other -- even under such nebulous terms. Indeed, the announcement was something of a surprise in most circles, including the president's own. Obama himself is quoted as saying, "I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments." It should be considered too that the final decision to award the prize to Obama had been reached weeks or months before the actual ceremony, raising even stronger questions as to why.

**Any reasonable review of the Peace Prize Committee's decisions in recent years yields the conclusion that ultra-left candidates are currently in strong favor, their tangible accomplishments** -- **or a complete lack thereof** -- Neither party has ever done a single thing to promote peace in any part of the world, though both have promoted a theory of anthropogenic global warming that, while lucrative to both of them, and almost religiously popular with the extreme left, has been widely and soundly discredited.

In fact, through its long history, the Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded to only four U.S. presidents. I've already mentioned Obama (almost before he was elected -- there are some who have opined that he would have received the prize even if he had lost the election) and Carter (21 years after he left office). The other two were Teddy Roosevelt (1906) and Woodrow Wilson (1919), indisputably two of the founders of the modern "progressive" era. No conservative U.S. president has ever won a NPP. (Yes, TR was a Republican, but hardly like today's brand of Republican. And he was certainly no conservative.)

In the final tally, US President Barack Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize largely for offering the world hope, rather than for any practical achievements, and possibly as an encouragement for what he might accomplish after receiving the prize.

Now, at the beginning of 2011, one can only question the Nobel committee's wisdom. Obama has delivered nothing that the committee hoped for, and his influence in international affairs has plummeted to a point near irrelevancy.

Good try, maybe next time you will share both sides view,,,From same said article..This is so typical of your one sided far left sided thinking...I like your comment from 9:12 this morning ..That manifests itself in many ways and you expound on it vitually everyday in your posts.

Promises, promises.. You cast your vote for Hope, change and a basket full of Promises.. That is your right... BHO has still done nothing but lead the US into deeper depths than never seen before pitting Americans against Americans.. That is not what a leader does...

vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.

If the Nobel prize committee was more interested in peace than politics they would have given it to George Mitchell, yes he is a democrat but he has done more for peace than anybody else in the democratic party.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie, my question wasn't about the public use. I'm hip to that. It was your statement, "Apparently the Feds are setting up to battle Washington and Colorado on their new laws." I thought you might have some sort of information I've missed.

Thanks for the link, Mr. B.

Drift — December 7, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.

Small change compared to what tax revenue they'll be generating.

goldenoldie — December 7, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Voting against Clarence Thomas is hardly evidence of racial bias.....

More unsupported conservative "revisionism"?

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.

You did not make an argument to rebut, you just threw a few things out there.

You have brought nothing to the table to counter my point that the republican party has never condoned racism.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 7, 2012 at 10:41 a.m

I heard on the news this morning that the Feds may be filing a lawsuit to block the new laws in Washington and Colorado.

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- *Why didn't you add this passage as well which you failed to cut and paste from the same article...*

I printed it in it's entirety. Word for word. Is this a misunderstanding or are you once again just making stuff up? Although I did not consult opinions on "Answers.com., (what the hell?:) but cited the Nobel Prize site itself..

Talk about getting stuck in yesterday's news...

And, if at the end of the day, the conversation is about whether or not a recently elected to a second term Democratic President was worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize awarded to him a few years ago...

It's a pretty good day.

I like it! :))

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.

Might want to try a search of the Congressional Record....

Unless facts get in the way of your "revisionist" history.

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

Here is the ENTIRE Article..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_Barack_Obama_win_the_Nobel_Peace_Prize

Well if you like to have more of what you have taken away from you.. I guess your far one sided Skewed view of things makes sense.. Put the Bong down Long enough to Exhale.... Like I said you couldn't give ONE reason why BHO won the Nobel Prize, because there wasn't one...

vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***IN OTHER NEWS***

An old man in Miami calls up his son in New York and says, "Listen, your mother and I are getting divorced. Forty-five years of misery is enough."

"Dad, what a
re you talking about?" the son screams.

“We can't stand the sight of each other any longer,” he says. "I'm sick of her face, and I'm sick of talking about this, so call your sister in Chicago and tell her," and he hangs up.

Now, the son is worried. So he calls up his sister. She says, "Like hell they’re getting divorced!" and calls her father immediately. "You’re not getting divorced! Don't do another thing, the two of us are flying home tomorrow to talk about this. Until then, don't call a lawyer, don't file a paper, DO YOU HEAR ME?” and she hangs up.

The old man turns to his wife and says "Okay, they’re coming for Christmas and paying their own airfares."

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 11:16 a.m

Seriously, why do you care? Did he take it from you or something, were YOU up for it? Give it a rest.

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- Wiki+Answers.com.+Fox News+Limbaugh.....you poor thing.

We can talk opinions all day long. But like I said...

*Talk about getting stuck in yesterday's news...*

*And, if at the end of the day, the conversation is about whether or not a recently elected to a second term Democratic President was worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize awarded to him a few years ago...*

*It's a pretty good day.*

*I like it! :))*

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.

Why would I search the Congressional record? You still haven't given me an argument to rebut.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Supreme Court Agrees to Hear 2 Cases on Same-Sex Marriage

The Supreme Court announced on Friday that it had agreed to hear a pair of cases challenging state and federal laws that limit the definition of marriage to unions of a man and a woman.

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.

Hopefully they will overturn Reynolds v. United States and restore true marriage equality, but I'm not holding my breath.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

Thanks for the advice... Coming from you that's a compliment.
The reason I care and so do many others is His presidency has been nothing short of one of the worst presidencies of alltime. Our generation and those to come will pay dearly for his mistakes.
Getting a Nobel Prize for words of Promise is embarrasing enough.
I just wanted to point out how Nails use of articles to support his thinking are skewed and biased and not Factual at all.....I just took him to task as he only copied and pasted what he wanted instead of the entire article... The entire article speaks volumes about Obamas presidency.....He has become Mr. Irrelevant in the International scene...In some ways I want him to take us over the Fiscal Cliff so Brainiacs like yourself and Nail see how bad his economic and other agendas are... It's like that person who is talking all the time about how much they know, and the more they talk you find out how much they don't actually knpow/...That's what I see with the two of.. trying to prop each other up as the basement bad guys..I enjoy laughing at most of your two comments...put down the Ditchweed...

vanwadreamer — December 7, 2012 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I printed it in it's entirety. Word for word. Is this a misunderstanding or are you once again just making stuff up?*

*I just wanted to point out how Nails use of articles to support his thinking are skewed and biased and not Factual at all.....I just took him to task as he only copied and pasted what he wanted instead of the entire article.*

To repeat my source:

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html

Guess you answered that one vanwa :)))

*I just took him to task* ..You read like the quintessential loudmouth at the end of the bar.

You feel like Obama took away your keys and we won't let you drive.

Nothing personal vanwa, and I'm not one to do as you do and dismiss someone's point of view asserting they are under the influence of a drug when I disagree with them. i.e. "Put the Bong down Long enough to Exhale...." or "put down the Ditchweed..." just from today.

But are you drunk? Inebriated? Loaded?

Just silly stuff, attempting to get personal while falsely accusing others of same. (seems like a common conservative basement trait, misdirecting and misplacing blame)

Many times I wonder if you are looped when you make such rambling accusatory non-sensical posts, berating everyone from our president to basement dwellers. Weird stuff.

Did you used to post as raymenlo?!?!?!?!?!

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.

Show us the Byrd quote you referenced.

Then show us the results of searching from 2000 on and cite the several occurrences in the Senate and House where the 'n' word is used.

And do that in context.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/LegislativeData.php?&n;=Record&c;=106

Then, maybe you can cite the source of your claim.

We will also note that since you brought up logical fallacies, that attempting to use one example to attempt to cover a broad claim........

mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 7, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.

As you have refused to bring **any** evedence to support any of your claims, you are no position to demand I do so. You have claimed that the republicans have condoned racism, the burden of proof is on you. I am not going to run in circles, if you want a reasonable **adult** discussion, you should start by backing up your claims. You interjected yourself, claiming I could not prove that something didn't happen, which is a logical fallacy. If you want to bring forth some evidence we could have a discussion, if you just want to insist everyone with a different point of view is wrong because you say so, than you are wasting everybody's time.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Leading front page news @ Red State. My God this party is a mess.

**Fire Boehner: We Only Need 16 Votes to Depose Boehner**

If conservatives want to keep the House and win the Senate, we need to fire John Boehner as speaker of the House. We only need 16 House votes to do it.

As most conservatives know, Boehner and the House GOP Steering Committee decided to purge four conservative House members from their committee. Congressmen Justin Amash and Tim Huelskamp were removed from the House Budget Committee, and Congressmen David Schweikert and Walter Jones were cut from the Financial Services Committee.

Amash, Huelskamp, and Schweikert were targeted because they were too fiscally conservative—all three have voted against Boehner’s debt ceiling hikes. Amash and Huelskamp were the only two GOP votes against House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan’s budget.

Amash explained that vote at yesterday’s Bloggers’ Briefing at the Heritage Foundation, “It’s unacceptable to have unbalanced budgets until 2040.”

For anyone outside of DC, this statement seems obvious. Only in Washington is balancing the budget radical.

Many conservatives voted for the Ryan budget because they didn’t want to “let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” I understand that, but we shouldn’t criticize those who actually understand the depth of our debt problem and plan to propose real answers.

If Speaker Boehner wants to purge independent, bold conservatives—I think it’s time he gets fired as Speaker. Not only for the purge. He has failed to effectively win negotiations with President Obama and appointed moderate committee chairs. To the public, Boehner may appear radical but in reality he proposes milquetoast policies, like the tax-hikes he proposed this week.

While the caucus has already voted in support of John Boehner as speaker of the 113th Congress, the final floor vote doesn’t happen until early January.

Everyone thinks it’s a fairytale, but the Conservative Movement is capable of firing Boehner with just 16 votes.

The House rules demand that a Speaker receive a majority—218 votes—to be elected speaker. If no nominee for speaker receives 218, the House remains speakerless—as it did during parts of the Civil War.

If 16 House Republicans were to abstain from voting for Speaker, Boehner would only receive 217 votes.

Once we depose Boehner and cause a firestorm, the Republican caucus will get the memo: Pick someone else! These 16 Republicans only need to hold out until the caucus chooses a new leader.

For Speaker, I suggest members who are anti-establishment, but still have broad support. Congressmen Jim Jordan of Ohio would be my pick. He just finished leading the Republican Study Committee and proposed the best budget we’ve seen come out of Congress.

Read more @ http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2012/12/05/fire-boehner-we-only-need-16-votes-to-depose-boehner/

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Got an hour to spare?

http://www.youtube.com/user/breakingthetaboofilm

I'm off to chop onions for chili dogs.

Drift — December 7, 2012 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Your article confuses "civil rights law" and treaty. The Senate should under no circumstances cede any part of our domestic policy to the United Nations. This is not the intent of the treaty clause and is contrary to our sovereignty.**

**frobert — December 5, 2012

***FROBERT***

what do you think will happen if obama ignores the old-time constitutional do's and don'ts, and just does what his "*executive order*" ploy provides him?

i cannot state with certainity, but it's my understanding, of he signs the treaty, it cannot be undone by congress or anything else.

other than trying him for treason, i can't see ano other way to cuonter his plans.

DeeLittle — December 7, 2012 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — December 7, 2012 at 7:07 p.m.

My understanding of the precedent is, that he can sign it as an executive agreement, but than it does not supercede Congressional law like a ratified treaty.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift-or as I always ask-is that Cap'n Drift?

I like my chili dawgs-actually smoked sausages-with mustard and sweet relish. I'm also a big fan of chopped sweet onions and green peppers in mayo-my Granny's slaw-or cole slaw-on 'em. With some chili-good eats. I luv andouie(sp ?) sausauges-Cajun style.
Good stuff off the BBQ. Put up the patio cover over ye old grill, as I do, and cook in the rain. It's a Pacific NW thing. Rain, rain and more rain but grill baby grill. Throw in some beer/booze, and everyone's happy. Hint-keep 'em waiting long enough to be starving-they'll lick the grease pan and wash it down with a beer and think they ate well. Kidding, of course.

mrd — December 7, 2012 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 7, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.

I LOVE onions on my chili dogs AND on my chili burgers and on my chili fries. What's not to love?

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 7, 2012 at 7:19 p.m

Where and when????

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On Howard Zinn:

Historian and author John Fea of Messiah College states that,

> Zinn writes well and is quite inspiring, but his book is bad history. In fact, I would not even call it history. A People's History of the United States is a political tract that uses the past to promote a presentist agenda...Zinn's book violates virtually every rule of good historical thinking.[2]

Michael Kazin, Professor in the Department of History at Georgetown University states that

> A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable", whose failure to adequately explain why most Americans accepted the legitimacy of the capitalist republic "is grounded in a premise better suited to a conspiracy-monger's Web site than to a work of scholarship."[3]

According to Zinn,

> Objectivity is impossible and it is also undesirable. That is, if it were possible it would be undesirable, because if you have any kind of a social aim, if you think history should serve society in some way; should serve the progress of the human race; should serve justice in some way, then it requires that you make your selection on the basis of what you think will advance causes of humanity.” [5]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Howard_Zinn

kn_dalai — December 7, 2012 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The meat darts were Hillshire Farm CheddarWurst. The chile, Nalley original. I warmed, and "marked," the darts on the gas grill.

She likes mustard below and chedder cheese on top of hers.

No mustard for me. I brown my bun and put cheese over the chile along with 1/2 cup of onion. I have two darts - on one open faced bun.

Chile dogs are an easy way out for quick dinner.

I'm planning on baked flounder for tomorrow. Subject to change, of course.

Drift — December 7, 2012 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — December 7, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.

I was sticking to the issue that Zinn did not support the liberal myth that the parties "switched", I didn't go into the fact that his "commentary history" was not condusive to factual history.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 7, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.

Straight line of mustard squiggly line of ketchup.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


after o's re-election, i'm thinking the following:

let him have his demands. tax increses w/o any corrosponding spending cuts? that's what the big 'o' is currently pushing.

what if the repub's let it happen? state **in print** what they believe the country needs to do, but doesn't fight his programs? ***IF*** we can recover from it, wouldn't that pretty-much destroy the dems with their own agendas?

***IF*** we can survive it, it might be a lesson the american voting public needs to learn.

DeeLittle — December 7, 2012 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Would you all be willing to pay for online content here?

The Olympian is adding a "pay wall" to its online edition. Non-subscribers of the print edition will be asked to pay $9.95 a month to take a peek and comment.

The Seattle Times is gearing up to do the same, although there is no official word yet. it's coming.

Wonder when the C will join in?

manthou — December 7, 2012 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- It looks like the Daily Beast & Washington Post are going "pay wall" also.

To pay for the C...seems a bit self-flagellating. Even more so than now! :)

nailingit — December 7, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Looks like the NY Times is doing the same thing.

And NO, I won't pay. At least not that much. Maybe a buck a month but that's my max.

hawkeye — December 7, 2012 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i've ben watching BBC docudramas of the nuremberg trials; hess, goering, speer.

amazing. it adds a whole dimension to the nazis who reduced the population of the world during their heyday.

it has relevant human actions that are being played out in syria, egypt, iraq today.

racism isn't the base element; hate is. it uses racism as its' reason, as it's holy intent to 'cleanse' the humans it affect. there's no difference between the leader of germany and the leders of syria and iran. they hate isreal because it's jewish. no other reason is needed.

we allow those enemies to get a nucler bomb, or the ability to deliver mass death by weaponized disease, not just millions will die, but billions.

and the trace of their death shall be on the wind.

obama thinks he can control anyone, for anything.

he'd better have a good gas-proof safe room for himself and his children. the rest of us will simply die.

DeeLittle — December 7, 2012 at 10:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...doesn't the C already have the "e" Edition or is that a bust already? I know I wouldn't waste my time paying to read supermarket tabloids so why would I waste my time paying for this??? Most of the time, pertinent news information isn't gathered by the people of the C. Instead, they copy and paste articles from other entities.

Let's talk about being distanced from their community, this news site is!!! Just this last week, I contacted Eric Florip via his email and suggested he run an article regarding the WSDOT 4-year transportation plan which is up and available for review - transportation being his specialty....I received nothing in return. This document clearly shows where taxpayer dollars are needed for many state projects and is up for review by the taxpayers...silence by him. Nothing, zip, nada...zilch!

Again I ask...why would I waste my hard-earned money on this tabloid???

goldenoldie — December 8, 2012 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I'm with vanwadreamer regarding the acquisition of the Nobel Peace Prize by our president. When receiving the Nobel, it's because of successes performed by the recipient. If you read the document you provided to vanwadreamer, it clearly states and I quote

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009"

A new climate in international politics??? By doing what and what type of climate are we speaking of??? A peaceful climate??? Where???

A world without nuclear weapons??? Is that why US Spy drones are infiltrating Iran??? Should I also mention the upcoming test by North Korea on a long range missile???

end pg 1

goldenoldie — December 8, 2012 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


pg 2

And as far as our president giving us "hope" for a better future...maybe some of the us have hopes that it's improving but now we're facing a fiscal cliff which not only the Repubs are refusing to budge...so is our president. What kind of hope is that??? Must be the hope and change thingy again...false hopes, now the goal is looking to the future. Well Nailingit...how FAR into the future must we seek those changes for the better??? Betcha the folks on Staten Island are really proud of how the Feds are helping them, huh!

Nail...it is my opinion that we're facing a major financial catastrophe if the president and congress don't come up with a solution regarding the fiscal nightmare soon to blast us. If nothing is solved, we're looking at not another recession...but an even greater depression than what our nation just began to crawl out of. We haven't even reached the surface. Two steady months of jobs declined, followed by one during holiday sales with a temporary rise??? What will it be like after the holidays??? The states cannot afford to pay unemployment and more budgets will be cut, taxes will rise, businesses will shut down again...foreclosures will increase...bankruptcies will rise...

Deja vu.

Yeah...I totally understand what vanwadreamer is saying regarding the validity of President Obama receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

As a husband and father...our president is right there with his family - a great family man. One filled with personality, love and caring. He only wants the best for his beautiful girls and his lovely wife. I give him high regards. I'm not condemning our president. Not at all as he is our chosen leader for another four years...but the choice made by the administrators of the Nobel Peace Prize must've had very few choices for 2009 and he was the best they had.

You know that fearmongering of December 21, 2012 by the news and conspiracy theory websites we're hearing about??? My take...it won't be December 21, 2012. If it happens, it'll be January 2013 when either the budget goes over that "cliff" or when yet another "stimulus" is kicked in and the national debt will take another spike.

Hope you're ready!

goldenoldie — December 8, 2012 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


addendum to 6:43 am.

Include John Boehner in that list as he calls the day of the fiscal cliff...doomsday.

Others getting in on the fun...

Businesses promoting "doomsday survival kits"

"Preppers" television show

"Cult" religious groups

...and the list goes on

goldenoldie — December 8, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Even Republicans can't stand themselves! Take back Florida Charlie!

**Charlie Crist, Democrat: Former GOP Governor Changes Party Affiliation**

The change became official at a White House Christmas reception, the Tampa Bay Times reports, where "President Obama greeted the news with a fist bump."

Crist was a high-profile campaign surrogate for Obama this past election cycle, speaking at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte this September in support of the president. "I didn't leave the Republican party," Crist said in his speech. "It left me."

According to the Times, the move foreshadows Crist's next big political undertaking:

The widely expected move positions Crist, 56, for another highly anticipated next step: announcing his candidacy for governor, taking on Republican incumbent Gov. Rick Scott and an untold number of Democrats who would challenge him for the Democratic gubernatorial nomination.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/charlie-crist-democrat_n_2260975.html

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When you have a major news outlet that makes stuff up...people are catching on to this cancer called Fox.

**Robert F. Kennedy Jr: Fox News Has Divided Country In A Way Not Seen Since Civil War**

Robert F. Kennedy Jr told HuffPost Live host Josh Zepps in an interview Friday that he believes conservative media outlets such as Fox News are damaging the country.

Asked how he thought things have changed in the political landscape, Kennedy pointed to "big money" and "the right wing control of the American media, starting with Fox News" as hurtful to collaboration between differing political interests.

"Twenty-two percent of Americans say their primary news source is Fox News," Kennedy told HuffPost Live. "It's divided our country in a way that we haven't been divided probably since the Civil War, and its empowered large corporations to get certain kinds of politicians and ideologues who are in the United State Congress elected -- the Tea Party ideologues who control the Republican Party."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/robert-f-kennedy-jr-fox-news_n_2261043.html

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


FOX isn't the only major news organization that makes things up or omits the truth because it might detract from the sensational story they want to spin, nailing it.

I have been fascinated by George Zimmerman's defamation suit against NBC, filed this past week. Three reporters were fired (one was then hired by KOMO in Seattle, go figure) for doctoring the 911 tape and publishing the doctored tape.

The Anti-Slapp laws are supposed to protect the "little guy" and his/her free speech against huge villains who want to muzzle dissent. However, news media conglomerates use it as a shield to protect their published lies and are largely successful at it.

The media has huge influence on public opinion and they are using it for biased agendas on both sides of the political aisle, I must admit. They are manipulating the truth to capture and retain an audience that has a short attention span and dwindling gray matter.

manthou — December 8, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


USDA chief: Rural America becoming less relevant

"Why is it that we don't have a farm bill?" said Vilsack. "It isn't just the differences of policy. It's the fact that rural America with a shrinking population is becoming less and less relevant to the politics of this country, and we had better recognize that and we better begin to reverse it."

For the first time in recent memory, farm-state lawmakers were not able to push a farm bill through Congress in an election year, evidence of lost clout in farm states.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VILSACK_RURAL_AMERICA?SITE=AP&SECTION;=HOME&TEMPLATE;=DEFAULT&CTIME;=2012-12-08-08-24-10

ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lord Justice Leveson in Britain is calling for strict laws there to control "mob rule" on the internet (trial by Twitter):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/leveson-inquiry/9728803/Lord-Justice-Leveson-calls-for-new-laws-to-curb-mob-rule-on-the-internet.html

It makes sense to me, but in the US, abuses of free speech by the media machine (and amplified by the internet trolls) are better tolerated by the US courts.

manthou — December 8, 2012 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*FOX isn't the only major news organization that makes things up or omits the truth because it might detract from the sensational story they want to spin, nailing it.*

I agree manthou. The difference with Fox is they have an agenda to do so. And they do it with regularity to influence our political structure and skew all info to benefit conservatism.

Other news agencies screw up from time to time and are called on the carpet.

Fox owns the carpet.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: Looks like the Columbian has shut off the auto links on us. Linking to the source is a good way to protect from libel for those of us who communicate on this Forum, so link away.

Interesting factoid you share about the fact that no farm bill has been passed. I will take some time to check that out today. Not a good sign for our food producer farming communities.

manthou — December 8, 2012 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Fox certainly got that ball rolling and are the poster boys and girls for biased, agenda-driven journalism.

Once their competitors discovered that FOX was wielding immense power to influence public opinion, others, like venerable NBC, followed suit.

I have to ask myself if journalists, in general, have immense pressure placed on them to publish that scoop a little too fast. So many journalists I know have a second job (writing books, blogging, speaking engagements) as insurance when their day job is ripped from under them.

Did you see that FOX sidelined TurdBlossom? A good sign!

manthou — December 8, 2012 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 7:17 a.m.

"Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.
Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter."

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A Federal prosecutor in New Orleans just resigned from his job because two of his deputy attorneys were posting anonymous, libelous comments about judges and other court agents on internet forums.

Prosecutors who use the media to make allegations and disparage expert witnesses, judges, colleagues are violating ethical guidelines. What they say has the potential to poison future jury pools and future court proceedings.

They participated in this sock puppet ruse because they understand the power of the media to get a message out, no matter how incorrect it is. They may try to cry "Free Speech", but their position in the judicial system holds them to a different standard.

manthou — December 8, 2012 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


'Welfare Spending Equates to $168 Per Day for Every Household in Poverty'

"Based on data from the Congressional Research Service, cumulative spending on means-tested federal welfare programs, if converted into cash, would equal $167.65 per day per household living below the poverty level," writes the minority side of the Senate Budget Committee. "By comparison, the median household income in 2011 of $50,054 equals $137.13 per day. Additionally, spending on federal welfare benefits, if converted into cash payments, equals enough to provide $30.60 per hour, 40 hours per week, to each household living below poverty. The median household hourly wage is $25.03. After accounting for federal taxes, the median hourly wage drops to between $21.50 and $23.45, depending on a household’s deductions and filing status. State and local taxes further reduce the median household’s hourly earnings. By contrast, welfare benefits are not taxed."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/welfare-spending-equates-168-day-every-household-poverty_665160.html

ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With regards to the Farm Bill. I believe the hold up involves that God awful communist/socialist inspired government freebee handout sinful Food Stamp program that republicans fear will put food on the plates of poor American families.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 8:08- A little snippet taken from a 2005 article? :))

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:18 a.m.

I posted a link to the entire article, feel free to point out anywhere in the study that counters the "snippet" that I posted.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Did you see that FOX sidelined TurdBlossom? A good sign!*

What's in a name?

Sometimes...everything! :)

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- *Elisi: Looks like the Columbian has shut off the auto links on us.*

John Hill is on top of it. Clickable links should be restored after the week-end.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 8:13 a.m

If you'd bother to read the full article and do some checking, you'd find the blame isn't put on just one side.

Both parties share in this. By looking at other programs they feel is more important than our domestic food supply.

The days of playing the blame game on one party is over, the entire mess of this country from bottom to top lays squarely on both parties shoulders. From Obama to Boehner to Pelosi to Reid to McConnell to Mc Cain etc..

Instead of complaining and playing the blame game here on the forum daily, why don't you come get involved and help change things.

ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So then, is this headline yellow journalism?

"Employers vs. legal pot Now that Washington and Colorado have legalized recreational use of marijuana, what does it mean to drug-free work policies?"

Let's take a look at it, shall we?

"Employers vs. legal pot." Right off the bat it sets up an adversarial situation. Why the versus? Is the line insinuating there must be a conflict between employers and a legal activity? Why - to what purpose?

"Now that Washington and Colorado have legalized recreational use of marijuana, what does it mean to drug-free work policies?"

The answer is simple. Nothing.
A simple answer to a misleading question, actually. Take the employees of a company, U.A. and draw blood from every single one. How many do you think will have foreign molecules floating around in there. I mean, everything from cold relief drugs to Prozac to caffeine.

So, exactly what "drug-free" work policies are we talking about here? Oh! They're talking about "impairment!" ...employees that aren't "impaired" by drugs. Impairment-free work places.

But that doesn't roll off the tongue like "drug-free," now does it?

Don't get me wrong here folks, I'm not for people being all loaded up (on anything) and performing tasks that could endanger the health and welfare of another. On the job *or* off.

I only know of two people who are encouraged to be under the infuence while at work; me and a buddy of mine that drums in a band. ;^)

In all seriousness, we are bombarded by this kind of stuff daily. And we don't even recognize it. You've heard "drug-free" so often that it's become part of the vernacular even though it's a misnomer. We've been programmed.

"Drug-free" brings to mind junkies, meth addicts and drunks. People being horribly injured because the stoner pushed the wrong button. Bad, dopers, bad bad dopers.

Programmed.

Well, now that I think on it... if we said "impairment-free" (in this litigious society) someone would undoubtedly be going to court for violating the ADA.

Pale yellow journalism... It's coming at you from all sides. Given the recent topic here, I just thought I'd offer that up.

Now it's time to take my pills and make my daily pilgrimage to the convenience store. ;^)

Drift — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.

I am not sure when it happened, but our society has become enamored with catchphrases. If we call a semiautomatic rifle an "assault weapon" or someone behind on their child support a "deadbeat dad", constitutional protections no longer apply. I am not a supporter of impaired driving, but use the term "drunk driver" and we no longer have to consider the constitutional limits on self incrimination or warrantless searches.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 7, 2012 at 9:09 p.m.,

That $9.95 per month is a whole lot cheaper than the print edition. I'm really not sure why I continue to subscribe, other than perhaps a sense of obligation to help support the free web-based side of the operation (both facebook and here).

And as for the facebook side, it's changed quite a bit since Marshall Matt left Dodge. Nowadays, there seems to be little control exercised; bogus names and personal attacks are common. Lew Waters, Madore and others of a conservative bent have disappeared - there's a guy from the east side who attacked every time they said anything. And now we've got the whole pro-CRC crowd attacking Robert Dean every time he puts up a comment because he moved to NC - but they conveniently ignore the pro-rail comments from people also outside the area. Anyhow, my point is that if one exercises due caution when setting up their facebook account privileges, one could post there nowadays using other than their real name.

roger — December 8, 2012 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"elisi"- *If you'd bother to read the full article and do some checking,*

The Weekly Standard is a biased neo-con rag created by Fox news pundits Barnes & Kristol. Why would I read that?

*The days of playing the blame game on one party is over,*

The conservative mantra after losing an election.

*the entire mess of this country from bottom to top lays squarely on both parties shoulders.*

Always blurring those lines...:)

*Instead of complaining and playing the blame game here on the forum daily, why don't you come get involved and help change things.*

Why don't you stop getting personal with those who don't share your opinion..."elisi". You're not privy to others personal lives.

---

frobert- Injecting deadbeat dads into the conversation?

Some stigmas are deserved.

btw did you read your link @ 8:08?

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BILL'S BLOG

The Fiscal Cliff Part II: Electric Boogaloo

December 7, 2012

By Bill Maher

I think most people have "the fiscal cliff" confused with the debt ceiling crisis. Really, they're opposites. Not raising the debt ceiling means not paying our debts. Going off the fiscal cliff means paying off our debt by raising taxes and cutting government spending. Well-advertised is the CBO saying going off the cliff could lead to a recession next year. Less advertised is that it also says it could get us into a more sound fiscal position in the long-term.

All this fiscal cliff panic is just proof that we are all Keynesians. Everybody knows that more government spending -- whether it's in the form of tax expenditures or social services, helps the economy grow. But you have to balance that with not letting your budget get out of hand.

Since we're looking for new revenue streams that aren't income taxes, Obama should use this budget crisis -- if you can call it that -- to do something about global warming with a carbon tax. This may be his last and only chance to do something big since cap and trade didn't work. And it would be just desserts for the oil and coal industries that went all in for Mitt Romney, a nice little personal #@%& (insert word for coitus:) you to the Koch brothers.

Actually, the CEO of Exxon Mobil, Rex Tillerson, has actually supported a carbon tax, saying, "As a businessman it is hard to speak favorably about any new tax. But a carbon tax strikes me as a more direct, a more transparent and more effective approach [than cap and trade]." I never thought I'd say this about a CEO of Exxon Mobil, but he's right.

http://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/real-time-with-bill-maher-blog/2012/12/7/the-fiscal-cliff-part-ii-electric-boogaloo.html

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 10:42 a.m

I was not defending anybody, just pointing out that Constitutional protections are meant for all.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — December 8, 2012 at 10:12 a.m

Hey Roger, looks like I got the boot. I asked Hill and he said I would be allowed back but it hasn't happened yet. I think I pissed off Madore and he complained. (just a guess) The thing is, when they boot you, they don't tell you or say why. The only way I knew was I looked at the posts from another computer and my post wasn't there.

hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my that makes me laugh, typical response..
Funny how one thinks what they read, what news sources, their side is the only right one. That's why I said "check" it's up to each and everyone of us to check further what we read. No matter what source it comes from.
You tell others to broaden their reading sources, yet you don't..
sad..

Blame game is over, but I suppose in 30 yrs we will still be hearing how everything is the R's fault or wait..wait..it's Bush's fault!

By laying the blame on both parties is not blurring the lines. Only those with coke bottle lenses on can't see the truth.

Plain and simple, don't like the way things are, then help make it better.
Not interested? I see, not interested cause it's too easy to sit in front of a comp and complain and play the blame game?

ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 11:47 a.m.

I noticed that my Facebook said you responded to one of my posts, but when I went to look it wasn't there. The same thing happened with Allen. I didn't see any out of line posts from either of you on Facebook.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- You got the FB boot? Although I don't read FB comments often, what I read of yours never lent itself to censorship.

roger/hawkeye- Do you know what happened to Alan Hoff? I haven't seen his posts for some time and was wondering if he got the boot from FB as he did here.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.

Yes Allan got the FB boot.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Too bad. I always found Alan's posts to be interesting.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 8, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.

Are you sure you didn't get bumped too? I get notices from them about others that have posted to stories I thought I posted to and when I look at the story, my post is there but in reality it isn't. The only way I knew is like I said, I looked at it from another computer. Weird system they have.

Yes, I miss Allen as well.

hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.

No, I'm not sure, but I have 6 different computers in the house, with 5 other people logging in and out, so it seems as though I would notice.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was gonna say 'you just can't make this stuff up'...but they do!

**Bill O’Reilly agrees: Roots of the War on Christmas are gay rights and abortion**

Bill O’Reilly agreed with “Imus in the Morning” producer Bernard McGuirk last night that the “roots” of the War on Christmas are not just atheists, but also “abortion and the gay rights agenda, because Christianity is against those things.”

MCGUIRK: The war on Christmas is very, very real, and if you ask me, in addition to some grouchy misanthropic heathen atheists it has to do — at the root of it — it has to do with two things — abortion and the gay rights agenda, because Christianity is against those things. It’s subtle but that’s why it’s so pronounced in recent years, in my opinion.

O’REILLY: Hundred percent agree. I absolutely agree 100 percent that it’s the diminishment of Christianity is the target and Christmas is the vehicle because the secularists know the opposition to their agenda — legalized drugs is in there as well — comes primarily from the Judeo-Christian traditionalist people.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/07/bill_oreilly_agrees_roots_of_the_war_on_christmas_are_gay_rights_and_abortion/

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 3:04 p.m

Jeez, they speaking about our state or what? All three things kinda legal here, so we must be the bad, evil ones.

War on Xmas indeed. More like war on brains.

luvithere — December 8, 2012 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Too bad. I always found Alan's posts to be interesting. -- nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 12:14 p.m.

You liked Allen because he is a partisan Leftist hack. That he tried to present himself as some sort of moderate was a joke.

I don’t know what happened to him, but considering some of the things he posted in the basement, I can well imagine that he went over the line on FB.

I also never saw any reason for Larimer to be booted. That he infuriated others was obvious. But compared to the way Leftist’s piled on the guy with one personal insult after another, his responses, if any, were really quite mild.

kn_dalai — December 8, 2012 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*You liked Allen because he is a partisan Leftist hack. That he tried to present himself as some sort of moderate was a joke.*

And a good evening to you also kn_d.

nailingit — December 8, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Couple of things-for whatever.....

funny thing the R's are now playing the "no blame game" in light of the FACT polls indicate they'll be be held responsible-(or to blame)-if the economy stalls or recedes due to the "fiscal cliff" nonsense. The real nonsense is the fact 91% of these worthless yo-yos were sent back to DC. So who's really to blame? But, then again, we only get to vote for the one of the two possible party's candidates, so our choices are limited-kinda like the Soviet Union-I think Putin pointed that out to Bush II, but it fell on deaf ears. Point is, we're given lousy choices based on political party allegiance and the $$$. And so it goes. Get used to it.

And I'm kinda puzzled here-I got some BS from Curtis King?!! I must've been asleep, didn't realize I'd been thrown in the mix with Yakima(?). The very eastern tip of Klickitat Co?!! Roosevelt, Wa?!! How in the world did that happen? ZZZzzzz...Asleep at the switch.

Aw-New Zealand. If I could only convince my wife. Trying to negotiate a settlement with her and the kids and go there or to to Canada-second choice. The Fraiser River Valley-I'm there, but it ain't working.

mrd — December 8, 2012 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- wasn't it you that was whining about not enough being done for the "Superstorm" Sandy victims? Did you happen to read this story?

Obama request for Sandy aid could face hurdles

President Barack Obama's proposal for $60.4 billion in federal aid for states hit by Superstorm Sandy adds a huge new item to an end-of-year congressional agenda already packed with controversy.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-request-sandy-aid-could-face-hurdles-083322677--politics.html

hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 8, 2012 at 6:12 p.m.

"in light of the FACT polls indicate they'll be be held responsible"

Do you have a source? I am not a big fan of the republicans, but it is currently Obama (not even democrats in general) that's refusing to negotiate.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 8, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.

How can that be, since you are constantly telling me, ***THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WORK WITH THE HOUSE!!!!***

hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.

Exactly, he shouldn't be there gumming up the works.

frobert — December 8, 2012 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 8, 2012 at 11:47 a.m.

No idea why anyone would get booted these days - unless you badmouth The Columbian. Editor Lou got pissed at someone the other day and warned him he was out of chances (or something). (Perhaps it was the guy with the picture that sort of looks like Jeff Beck?)

There's a guy - Greg Owens - who used to write some decent comments. But leading up to the election he changed - just attacked David Madore and Lew Waters. Now that both of them have quit posting, he's been going after Robert Dean. And if you check today's article Employers vs. Legal Pot, there's the usual bogus names and a fair amount of name calling going on.

No idea about Allen Hoff. I always thought he was pretty calm.

What I find silly is blocking someone so they can't read your posts. Mike Briggs is doing that to me. But when the numbers of comments are higher that what you see, it's easy enough to tell. So, I log off facebook and go to the article, and then everything he posted shows. I like hassling him over his gloom and doom "the great quake is coming" with the I5 bridge discussions - from what I've seen from geological maps showing fault lines in Portland, and about the numbers of buildings in the downtown area not meeting any sort of quake-proof standards, that area is going to take a major beating.

roger — December 8, 2012 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fro-
I read this on Cnn yesterday, but Laird's column was closer. By a 2 to 1 margin, folks would blame the R's rather than Obama. Pretty much the same for raising taxes on the rich. In the budget debacle, the R's are losing, the ranks are cracking, and the white flags are popping up.Just supposing here, but if the "debate" on the budget was stalled until after the election, with the notion Romney/Ryan would win, it didn't work.

"A recent Washington Post survey assessed the direction of blame if the U.S. falls over the fiscal cliff: 53 percent would blame Republicans, 27 percent would blame President Obama."

mrd — December 9, 2012 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Great Laird article this morning. If I may repost his closing...

*Nationally, the anger persists, though subdued, and the brash image prevails. Today's Tea Partiers still resemble the low-achievers back in high school who sat in the back row at the awards assembly, belching the alphabet and generally disrupting the ceremony. Finding no group that would embrace them, they decided to make school unpleasant for others, especially the athletes and the Honor Society kids.*

*Eventually, the back-row boys got older, took their anger to town halls … and rose to shout about their credentials as patriots.*

I remember many of us "Leftists" were warning you wingers how potentially destructive the 2010 bagger politicians were.

Of course you voted them in anyway, many not understanding the ramifications that *lie* ahead. Many just followed along with the Anti Obama thing. Marching along.

Eyes wide shut.

So called "Libertarians" understood. Our current Congress tea party folk are doing exactly what the base who voted them in want them to do. Either nothing or obstruct.

John also mentioned the international Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities treaty that was voted against last week. So many examples of Anti-American obstructionism (yeah that's right) but this one fits to a "tea".

These "back row boys" need to go..yesterday.

Let's finish cleaning this bad act up in 14' & 16'.

For America's sake.

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Crime increases as drug use does Police say change in Oxy-Contin lead to rise in heroin addiction"

Unintended consequences?

The article reminds me of heroin's (Bayer) original intended use; a cure for morphine addiction.

The manufacturers of oxy tweaked it to make it a bit more difficult to abuse. The result is opiate addicts turning to junk. The article doesn't mentioned the folks who've become addicted to oxy under a physicians care - and then being cutoff - turning to heroin.

Here's a thought: Make heroin available at little or no cost to addicts. I know, it sounds crazy. If a person takes the time to look at places like the UK, Portugal, Sweden... though, they would discover, maybe not.

In countrises with "maintenance" programs - where drug addiction is treated as a health issue, not a crime - drug associated crime (and AIDS) has declined.

Crazy, man.

Drift — December 9, 2012 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 9, 2012 at 8:04 a.m.

I would like to point out that the Washington Post "recent" poll was weeks ago, prior to Obama adopting his current "no compromise" stance. I have no love for republicans, however to imply that the democrats are any better is laughable. If Mitt had been elected, I am sure that a deal would have been worked out that cut no spending and increased no taxes, thus compounding our problem. Obama's position of unlimited debt ceiling and more stimulus spending would be just as bad. Let the Congress hammer it out, than as Constitutionally required the President can sign it or not. I have no problem with reasonable tax increases, if coupled with real spending cuts, our current plan is unsustainable, and if our Government did not have the power to produce money from thin air we would be bankrupt.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- *I would like to point out that the Washington Post "recent" poll was weeks ago, prior to Obama adopting his current "no compromise" stance.*

A recent survey.

Asked who would be more to blame if the government cannot reach an agreement to avoid the year-end “fiscal cliff” budget changes, 53% of those surveyed said they would blame Republicans in Congress. Just 27% said they would blame Obama.

Forty percent of those surveyed said they expect the two sides to reach an agreement. But 49% said they expect the stalemate to continue beyond Jan. 1. Democrats were considerably more optimistic, with 55% saying they expect a deal, while just 22% of Republicans do.

Pew conducted the survey Nov. 28-Dec. 2, along with the Washington Post. They surveyed 1,003 adults.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-gop-fiscal-cliff-blame-20121207,0,3860921.story

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 9, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.

Most of the problems in society today can be tracked back to governmental controls. Yes, addicts should be able to get the drugs they have choose, but that is a minor thing compared to the good that eliminating the CSA and prescription drug laws would result in. If the masses were not forced by big government to pay healthcare professionals prior to purchasing their medications, we would restart competition within the healthcare industry. We need to restore the inherent right of the people to make their own decisions concerning their own health.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A review of an excellent book I just finished.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/24/neil-barofsky-s-bailout-why-tarp-failed.html

Barofsky was a prosecutor in the US Attorneys Office in New York, handling mortgage fraud cases, before he was hired to be the Special IG for the TARP program. This is his account of why TARP and related bailout programs actually failed - largely due to Treasury Dept's inability to understand or accept that their implementation was little more than a sop that allowed the large banks to grow bigger and stronger than ever. Meanwhile, the aid to homeowners and the increased spending never happened. Tim Geithner comes across as a total loser. And Barofsky suggests that we're not out of the woods yet - we're repeating the same mistakes made when the recovery program first started. (Two of the few in Wash DC who come across well in this book are Elizabeth Warren and Barney Frank - he's not a Repub with an axe to grind.)

roger — December 9, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 9:36 a.m.

Thank you for the link to the more recent poll, MRD just referenced the Washington Post without specific link, so I did a search and found an older survey, I will read this one. I still maintain that Obama's hard line stance and insistence on increased spending, had better be just a negotiating tactic, or it will blow up in his face.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- *Obama's hard line stance and insistence on increased spending, had better be just a negotiating tactic, or it will blow up in his face.*

How so?

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — December 9, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.

The bailouts caused a devastating blow to our economy and were just the type of crony-capitalism that the likes of Ron Paul and the Koch brothers have been warning us about. We devalued our currency and passed that on to a few billionaires like Buffett and Munger. I also find it interesting that WAMU, which was not a Buffett holding was seized by the government and sold but Buffett holdings AIG, Goldman Sachs, AMEX, BOA and many others were bailed out.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Since I was told yesterday that the link and article I posted was...

*The Weekly Standard is a biased neo-con rag created by Fox news pundits Barnes & Kristol. Why would I read that?*

Here is what The Columbian posted today on very same issue..

http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/de...

ELISI — December 9, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On why we bailed out banks but not people: There comes a place where if you just start bailing out all the individuals instead of telling them to adapt, the culture dies. I don't know where it is. But at a certain place, you gotta say to people, "suck it in and cope buddy. Suck it in and cope."

Charlie Munger, second largest individual recipient of TARP funds.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Charlie-Munger-on-Communism-fool-1939650256.html

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If the President, who has no Constitutionally authorized role in these negotiations, runs us off of the "fiscal cliff", I believe that the people will see the truth. The people of the United States elected a republican House for a reason, and that reason is checks and balances. When the House, Senate and President speaks in one voice it causes and always has caused problems.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift,

RE: Heroin addiction - I asked the facebook side about the success rate of treatment, and whether it would be better to provide the drug in a controlled setting. I'm not expecting a positive response, though. We'll see.

roger — December 9, 2012 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Nail-

Right wing controls countries news outlets???

*The days of playing the blame game on one party is over*If that were only the case Obama would not have won. Where do you come up with these ideas... Also Obama has been playing the blame game since he took office...

You might want to check this out, while not up to date as of today i'm sure there is another list which is..In addition to trying to fire Beohner, the President is not out of the woods yet on the Libya terrorist attack, one which may come back to bite him in the backside..

As for the Fiscal Cliff, Obama will take us over it in my opinion..Because he can and wil// Then he'll blame it on the Republicans..JMHO

http://factreal.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/list-obama-blames-everybody-but-himself/

vanwadreamer — December 9, 2012 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There are times I'm tempted to open a shell Facebook-thingy. When I write "shell" I don't mean anything dishonest, I mean, whatever the minimal requirements for.

Over on the other side I'd have a blast hacking the "flat-earthers" off at the knees (was that my out loud voice?! ;^).

Roger, it'll be interesting to see what (else) your post generates.

Drift — December 9, 2012 at noon ( | suggest removal


Hawk,

The current democraticly controlled Senate and Presdient have not done enough to get Rekief from FEMA or the Gov't.... It will take a minimum of 45 days to get any money from FEMA once approved. The white house can make that delay go away if they wanted to at the presidents direction...300K homes damaged or destroyed in NY state alone...

I read the article...They will get a large part of what they request in money as long as there are no other additions to these bills...Like adding more Pork... With the control the democrats own this should have already been rubber stamped and money flowing to those in need, but that isn't what is happening, the Dems are sitting on the appropriations trying to tie them to other presidential demads.. The Prez is simply playing hardball with peoples lives... Just like when he let our credit rating drop.. Maybe you should go back east and step in these peoples shoes for a week, can you say, change of tone...This storm is many times more devastating than Katrina, and yet we haven't been able to get many of these people back in there homes yet..And this by a President who "promised" he would be there for them,,,

vanwadreamer — December 9, 2012 at noon ( | suggest removal


fro, WAMU crashed long before the big one. It was due to bad management and stupid acquisitions.

hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The current democraticly controlled Senate and Presdient have not done enough to get Rekief from FEMA or the Gov't."

HUH?

FEMA is controlled by the government, that includes the House, Senate and the President.

I know, it's confusing.

Tell you what, you go to the store, fill up your shopping basket and try to check out without your wallet. Tell me how that works out for you.

hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*The days of playing the blame game on one party is over*If that were only the case Obama would not have won. *Where do you come up with these ideas...*

I was quoting ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. Pay attention vanwa.

*the President is not out of the woods yet on the Libya terrorist attack*

He never will be in your OZ like Haunted Forest called Fox News. It means nothing.

*As for the Fiscal Cliff, Obama will take us over it in my opinion..Because he can and wil// Then he'll blame it on the Republicans..JMHO*

You do understand who created this.."cliff" right? And you are aware of 2012 election results I presume...

As to allocating blame. It really doesn't matter who obama points his finger at.

What matters is the substance of mrd's post @ 8:04 & mine @ 9:36.

The voters are wising up.

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*You might want to check this out, while not up to date as of today i'm sure there is another list which is..*

I'm sure there is another list out there vanwa. :))) There always will be extremist sites who cater to a few. Quite the blog site you referenced! :)))

A crazy world indeed...

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 12:04 p.m.

"WAMU crashed long before the big one"

AIG was bailed out 8 days after the seizure of WAMU, and the TARP was approved two weeks later. Yes they made some bad management choices, but no worse than the ones by Buffett controlled entities.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you are going to quote me then use only my words, don't add or subtract from what is said. You just lost more credibility.
What I said ..

*The days of playing the blame game on one party is over, the entire mess of this country from bottom to top lays squarely on both parties shoulders. From Obama to Boehner to Pelosi to Reid to McConnell to Mc Cain etc..
Instead of complaining and playing the blame game here on the forum daily, why don't you come get involved and help change things.
ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m*

NOT this..

The days of playing the blame game on one party is overIf that were only the case Obama would not have won. Where do you come up with these ideas...

I was quoting ELISI — December 8, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.

ELISI — December 9, 2012 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


AIG was bailed out 8 days after the seizure of WAMU, and the TARP was approved two weeks later. Yes they made some bad management choices, but no worse than the ones by Buffett controlled entities.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.

And that was by who?

hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 3:32 p.m.

They were bailed out by the Federal Reserve, the same agency that seized WAMU.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The voters are wising up.

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.

Really? You're serious??? Who ya gonna blame IF Obama allows the budget to tumble over that Fiscal Cliff???

Oh wait...*HE* wants *another* Stimulus Plan. Hmm...more loan $$$ from China??? More bailouts??? More of the same old, same old.

Yeah...some of us wised up, but everyone else was too busy drinkin' that Koolaid and fillin' up on the munchies when they voted.

goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"There always will be extremist sites who cater to a few...."

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.

Good to see you've finally recognized that fact.

goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's a thought: Make heroin available at little or no cost to addicts. I know, it sounds crazy. If a person takes the time to look at places like the UK, Portugal, Sweden... though, they would discover, maybe not.

Drift — December 9, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.

Drift, maybe if you'd mind explaining this comment a bit further, this wouldn't bother me as much. You are aware of the dangers of Heroin, right??? Maybe I'm not quite understanding what it is you're saying because right about now, I wouldn't say that it sounds crazy. In fact...it sounds extremely reckless with far too many implications attached....something I'd definitely stand against.

goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.

"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."

Ronald Reagan

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, our government is hardly one that protects us from ourselves when they allow the manufacture and distribution without limits, a drug so powerful as OxyContin. Others may not agree with me with what I'm about to say but that's fine. Oxy was given to people in place of other pain relievers...and was over prescribed without strict regulations by the FDA. That is, till recent years when the laws changed. Never mind the fact that pain clinics (AND the pharmacies)...some who were guilty of passing out the Oxy like it was aspirin...didn't take into account the people had to turn to the streets to acquire their meds.

Many do not realize that with drugs such as OxyContin, once you are put on that "CRAP," if you decide to no longer utilize Oxy, you must be stairstepped off of it. If not, you DO go into withdrawals, much like folks on Heroin or Morphine...sometimes with fatal results.

It's great that the government allowed this drug to be okayed before final approval...got many people hooked...then left them hanging.

A government that protects us from ourselves or a government out to selectively eliminate those whose systems are weakened by addiction???

goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also frobert...in the discussion of Drift's idea to legalize Heroin for the addicts...

How is legalizing an uncontrolled, unregulated and very illegal and deadly narcotic going to help those afflicted with such an addiction? Isn't the idea to help get them off the CRAP?

goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 9, 2012 at 5:02 p.m.

It's their decision, not yours mine or the governments.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

Treatment for heroin addiction should be freely available, and strongly pushed. But it's like the "you can lead a horse to water...." parable - and providing the drug at a clinic, uncut with dangerous substances and with sterile needles - is better than someone hustling/stealing for their next fix.

roger — December 9, 2012 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*If you are going to quote me then use only my words, don't add or subtract from what is said. You just lost more credibility. What I said ..*

The old *You just lost more credibility.* tune. :))

Not sure if you are addressing me or vanwa, but I was quoting from vanwa's post.

Sometimes I/we forget how seriously some take themselves.

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


They were bailed out by the Federal Reserve, the same agency that seized WAMU.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 4:04 p.m.

Really? I thought it was GWB

hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 6:47 p.m.

I was commenting on crony capitolism, I didn't claim that the republicans were any less guilty. They are however no less guilty than the democrats.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Quit to head up a **.a think tank!!!** God help us :)

**Jim DeMint Is Resigning: Here Are His 7 Craziest Moments**

1. DeMint says gay people and unmarried women having sex shouldn't teach your children.

According to the Spartanburg Herald-Journal, DeMint said this at a South Carolina rally: "If someone is openly homosexual, they shouldn't be teaching in the classroom and he holds the same position on an unmarried woman who's sleeping with her boyfriend—she shouldn't be in the classroom."

2. DeMint says God doesn't like big government.

On a radio show in 2011, DeMint said: "I've said it often and I believe it—the bigger government gets, the smaller God gets. As people become more dependent on government, less dependent on God."

3. Jim DeMint doesn't want women talking about abortion on the internet.

In 2011, DeMint put an amendment into a totally unrelated spending bill that attempted to ban discussion of abortion via satellite, video-conferencing, and the internet (in other words, fully preventing women from speaking with their doctors remotely).

4. DeMint says America turning into Iran after President Obama's election (or maybe Germany?).

"Probably the most heart-wrenching experiences I've had over the last several days is when naturalized American citizens who have immigrated here from Germany, Iran, and other countries, they come up to me and they say why are we doing what so many have fled from?" DeMint told a conservative radio host in 2009 "Why don’t Americans see what we're doing?"

5. DeMint puts a hold on National Women's History Museum.

In 2010, a proposed bill would have allowed a private group to buy property on Independence Avenue to build a women's history museum (without costing taxpayers any money). DeMint was one of the bill's chief opponents, and put a hold on it.

6. DeMint confuses Chicago teacher strike with violence in the Middle East.

"On my way over, I was reading another story about a distant place where thugs had put 400,000 children out in the streets. And then I realized that was a story about the Chicago teachers strike," DeMint said at the 2012 Values Voters summit in September. "But we've got to think of good things.”

7. DeMint falsely accuses President Obama of taxing Christmas.

On Fox News in 2011, DeMint said the government was "going to charge taxes on Christmas trees so they can start another government agency to promote Christmas trees. We don't need to do that at the federal level. We can't even afford to do what we're already doing. And to add another tax to something and say we're going to create a promotion agency, it just makes you want to pull your hair out."

This statement was in response to a division of the Department of Agriculture proposing that tree importers and producers pay 15 cents per tree, to fund a promotional campaign for Christmas. (The tax was tabled.)

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12/senate-loses-jim-demint-and-his-crazy

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Drift, maybe if you'd mind explaining this comment a bit further, this wouldn't bother me as much. You are aware of the dangers of Heroin, right???"

Yep, goldie, I sure am. Death by overdose is a big risk. Back when I was in high school I had a classmate die. He died of a sulfuric acid overdose though. He was strung out and smuggling dope across the Mexican border. He ripped off the wrong people down there. They gave him a "hot shot." Heck of a way to die, eh?

Just before I (almost) graduated from high school China White hit the streets. It was a much purer product. Did you know an opiate O.D. shuts down the respiratory system? Dead junkies are commonly blue (near black) in color when found.

I have a family member currently shooting dope. A young woman throwing her life away. Will she, one day, be found blue? If her boyfriend holds out on the dope will she start turning tricks?

Her fate is in her hands. Not her boyfriend's. Not mine. Not yours.

Now, if she lived in the UK she wouldn't need the boyfriend for her fix. She wouldn't be tempted to peddle herself for the next hit. She could go to the "clinic" twice a day and have a measured dose of dope, of a known potency, handed her with a brand new rig (syringe).

And she could shoot her dope in the presence of a medical professional. A medical profession who'd tell her any time she thought she was ready to quit there was help.

I prefer option two, goldie.
But this isn't Portugal, Sweden or the UK, now is it?

Drift — December 9, 2012 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thinking..as I...excuse me, while I gag...give me a break.

ELISI — December 9, 2012 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There's an old saying...

Guns don't kill, people do.

Why is it so hard for some to understand...

Drugs don't kill, people do.

Evangelicals love to gripe about big government...

Until it comes to God, guns, gays, abortion, drugs, corporate welfare $$$, war, Medicaid Social Security.....etc...etc.

Just sad.

Get over it people........**FOUR MORE YEARS!!!** :)

Then EIGHT from Hillary!

By the time this Dem run is over the Supreme Court should come squarely into balance.

God Bless America!

amen

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 7:38 p.m.

The republican party has several factions, and you don't have a clue what each of them advocates. Many evangelicals oppose drug prohibition, corporate welfare and war. Those are NeoCon values, and NeoCons are liberals, in fact our current president has more NeoCon traits than traditional liberal ones. In four more years people will so fed up with indefinite detention, war, medical marijuana crackdowns and murdered Pakistani children that we may not see another democrat president for decades.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- You live in a politically isolated world. Your wordplay and old world semantics in your attempt to be identified with some quasi constitutionalist affiliated party is at best entertaining.

*and you don't have a clue what each of them advocates.*

Always with the finger waving, I've come to dismiss your posts as most are challenged by basic comprehension/understanding/context, over and over and over. i.e. Dec, 08 @ 8:08. A nonsensical link which was not only outdated 7 years (considering the topic was the current state of media affairs) but the study itself was not relevant in the least to conversation at hand.

You constantly criticize matters you don't understand, then make zero attempt to do any research so that you might understand. Your buddy Basil is much more long suffering than I.

Maybe it's time to watch your Star Trek collection again. Fix yourself a dog with squiggly condiments, make some hot chocolate and yes, free your mind.

At least a couple of episodes of Mork and Mindy.

nanu nanu

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.

As usual when you have no response, you dig out the ad hominem fallacy.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*As usual when you have no response, you dig out the ad hominem fallacy.*

Then why are you responding to a non response. And accusatory nonetheless.

Always the victim, even when evidence supports otherwise.

Your past name calling and rants aside, it was all downhill in my book a couple of years ago when you proudly asserted Dan Quayle was a Rhodes Scholar!

Some things a person just doesn't forget!

That and many other items convinced me you hadn't taken the political realm seriously at all, at least in the very recent past. If you are now more power to you. Just step back and breathe once in awhile.

My guess is this tea party thing swept you up and got you started. Perhaps that's why you've displayed such sensitivity for the word teabagger, or tea bagger, or T Bagger..it's like a personal thing because the movement has meant much to you.

On that level I'll try and understand what you must be going through, and also watch my bagger comments. Rough days for you guys, but in the long run it's for the better.

Again, try swiping out your unregulated boiled over tea for some Romulan ale.

Most definitely for the better!

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nail, I think I'd like to start a "draft Rachel Maddow" campaign.

The smartest woman I know.

hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**frobert**

when the great one gets what he wants, i just hope he doesn't destroy the country along with the democratic party.

DeeLittle — December 9, 2012 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 9, 2012 at 10:05 p.m.

Condoleezza Rice, BA at nineteen, MS at twenty PhD at twenty six, no Rachel isn't even close.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — December 9, 2012 at 10:06 p.m.

We have plenty to be concerned about, Obama and the direction that the republican party has been taking. We need to return to pro states rights pro individual liberties republicanism. The current crop of republicans might as well be democrats.

frobert — December 9, 2012 at 10:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 10:05- Most definitely! Brilliance+Insight=The Best! She talked with Obama last week, I hope he listened!

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow...just wow...somebody sure has their shorts in a bunch today!

"Quit to head up a **.a think tank!!!** God help us :)"

Seems you'd be pleased since he wouldn't be holding his position in politics.

..

also...

nailingit — December 9, 2012 at 7:38 p.m.

You might be prayin' in a different direction after four more years! Tell me then just how well this administration has worked for you. Hopefully it has worked as positively as you speak because right now...it ain't lookin' so good.

goldenoldie — December 10, 2012 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.

Thanks for showing that, with a dearth of support, your modus operandi is to attempt to attack.

mr_basil_seal — December 10, 2012 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 7, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.

Show us the Byrd quote you referenced.

Then show us the results of searching from 2000 on and cite the several occurrences in the Senate and House where the 'n' word is used.

And do that in context.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/LegislativeData.php?&n;=Record&c;=106

Then, maybe you can cite the source of your claim.

We will also note that since you brought up logical fallacies, that attempting to use one example to attempt to cover a broad claim........

mr_basil_seal — December 10, 2012 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — December 7, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.

frobert — December 7, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.

His books are readily available. If you have proof of inaccuracies, let us see the quoted material.

If you dislike the conclusions Dr. Zinn comes to, then show us how he misuses or otherwise is not being intellectually honest.

Until then, much like the claims of frobert about Sen . Byrd, we see no substance to your claims.

mr_basil_seal — December 10, 2012 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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