Open forum, Dec 24-30



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I wish a wonderful Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to all. May peace surround you during this Holiday Season!!!

goldenoldie — December 24, 2012 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: Yesterday's conversation on whether the County Commissioners (notably Madore) can stop light rail, and possibly the CRC itself. It is possible, based on a New Starts requirement to having the LRT O&M; funding secured prior to their awarding the grant to build the rail system itself (supposedly we'll get the entire $800 mil, but that's another matter). The County Commissioners sit on the C-Tran Board, which is the local transportation authority and has to determine/approve any locally imposed O&M; funding methodology. Over the past several months the Board stuck with an earlier promise to put the sales tax to a vote of the entire C-Tran service district. The only way Vancouver City can "take" this funding authority is for the C-Tran Board to relinquish it to them - something extremely unlikely given the current coalition between the County and the small city reps to the Board.

The County Commissioners also sit on the Southwest Washington Regional Transportation Council, which has the mission of planning transportation issues of a regional nature. Prior to the election, they were heavily involved with public transportation planning, to include the CRC LRT and the 4th Plain BRT. Perhaps with Madore and a couple of other personnel changes, Madore believes he can change that group's support away from LRT - this would be a crippling blow to WSDOT's efforts.

roger — December 24, 2012 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also, there's another issue to settle, as Eric Florip's article yesterday FINALLY addressed in The Columbian. WA State law may in fact require voter approval of light rail - the system itself, and not just funding.

RCW 81.104.030, Policy development outside central Puget Sound — Voter approval.

"Transit agencies participating in joint regional policy committees shall seek voter approval within their own service boundaries of a high capacity transportation system plan and financing plan. For transit agencies in counties adjoining state or international boundaries where the high capacity transportation system plan and financing plan propose a bistate or international high capacity transportation system, such voter approval shall be required from only those voters residing within the service area in the state of Washington."

High capacity transit does include LRT; RCW 81.104.015 spells that out. The lawyers are currently arguing over whether "system plan and finance plan" means everything or just funding. (Sounds to me like a desperate move on the part of WSDOT and CRC.) And I'm guessing Mayor Leavitt is once again working toward trying for a restricted voting district - like that area of old Vancouver City which was about the only part of the C-Tran service district that voted for Prop 1.

roger — December 24, 2012 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks very much, Roger. There might be hope after all then. While I am all for a new, safe bridge, the planning, the extras, the light rail all leave a bad taste in mouth and a painful feeling in the wallet. If this is such a vital, international traffic corridor, for me it's one more reason to stop tolls. build a functioning, decent bridge and quit the rest.

And now I will focus on finishing that super cake so it will be ready for my large, German dinner tonight. All, have a nice Christmas and enjoy the season. Dee, extra wishes to you, enjoyed your nice post from last night.

luvithere — December 24, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: You do a lot of good research, as noted in your two posts above. I will take a gander in more depth today so I can comment with some knowledge (as opposed to emotion).

hawkeye: you and I seem to be the resident skeptics on Madore. I am sharing the latest satire from Temple Lentz with you in particular today.

Remember folks, it is SATIRE:

[link text][1]

goldenoldie: Appreciate your message of good will today. Backatcha.


manthou — December 24, 2012 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 24, 2012 at 8:41 a.m.

Thanks manthou, funny stuff. Some of it could be true though. I like Temple, she's got a great imagination.

Roger, I think we need a full Clark County vote on LRT. I don't care for it myself and if the same amount of people that voted for Madore vote against it, (plus me) I don' think it will pass which will piss off Trimet, Oregon, Portland and it's city council and two transportation departments and two Governors. And on top of that (mark my words here) Madore WILL take credit for the whole thing.

GO, (and everybody else) I hope you all have a merry Christmas, ELSIE, I hope your birthday was good to you and everybody have a safe New Years.

hawkeye — December 24, 2012 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Agreed on the vote. But Madore take credit if LRT is killed? He was nowhere on the radar screen when others began speaking up and noting the costs. For me, Joe Norquist gets the most credit - he's the one who kept saying (in the Plaid Pantry document) that the $3.5 billion cost is being presented without taking into consideration interest payments and tolling operation costs, and also that the tolling estimates are too high due to traffic flow decreasing rather than the CRC's glide path increase. Pdxtech91 (wonder where he's gone to?) also pointed me in a couple of directions that I could follow. Andrea Damewood and Eric Florip did a good job of digging up info that debunked much of what the CRC was saying about their ability to keep the new bridge at 95 feet. Madore's main contribution was hiring Tiffany Crouch to conduct an audit of the CRC, and (as soon as he won) pursuing the issue Robert Dean has harped on for a long time - that RCW 81.104.030 requires we be presented the opportunity to vote on LRT.

roger — December 24, 2012 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, hawkeye and others...

Regarding Madore...he's but one vocal standout in a sea of opposition to the CRC. If anybody is to take credit for killing the LRT portion of the crossing, I put my number on the voters. ***Yes, us voters.***

THREE TIMES, we have struck down *any* funding towards light rail. That in my opinion, speaks louder than words and speaks volumes far above the fancy talk of any elected politician or any activist involved in the process whether they support or oppose the crossing.

Now though...the ball game is in the hands of the US Coast Guard. They have the height permit request by the CRC to review...and to this day, the CRC is still trying to bend the rules on height restrictions. The USCG will most likely have the pressure of CRC backers in DC on this project...but their decision mustl be based on river freight transit and what the height restriction request would do to companies who must move their product underneath the bridges without causing damage to the structural integrity.

Regarding RCWs...yes, they are Washington State Codes to be followed, but the decisions made are all determined by the way any judge would interpret the RCWs. IF the judge who would determine the outcome of the decision and include a vote of the taxpayers, he'd be wasting valuable taxpayer dollars by deciding on a fourth vote. The judge would best serve the taxpayers by reviewing the results of the last three Clark County elections which included funding for high capacity transit (LRT included) by C-Tran as well as TriMet with regards to ballot measures which would extend the LRT further north than it already is...AND should include any request by C-Tran and TriMet for funding to study the possibility of LRT into our community and rightfully making the decision. Of course, that's just my opinion.

goldenoldie — December 24, 2012 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Political Hypocrites: A Look At Politicians Who Deserve A Lump Of Coal For Christmas**

Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin (R), former vice president Al Gore (D) and Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) have all certainly made an impact in politics. But thanks to some past hypocritical moments, they may have also made it on to Santa's naughty list.

Below, a slideshow of more politicians who could get a lump of coal this Christmas:

nailingit — December 24, 2012 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO, the votes against funding is just that. We need an actual vote on LRT itself. Yes or NO! The whole county since it will affect the whole county. As for the height of the bridge, the biggest problem with that is the grade as it relates to the LRT. If LRT is taken off the table then the grade is not a problem and it can be built as needed.

I have no doubt that we need a new bridge and the freeway on both ends needs to be totally revamped but to run LRT on the bridge is not necessary and way too expensive for all involved.

hawkeye — December 24, 2012 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 8:41- Funny funny stuff! The article below concerning CRC is a hoot also.


nailingit — December 24, 2012 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

golden Oldie, Dee Little and any one else. Do you have any instructions for sourdough biscuts. I have eaten it all my life but never bothered to make any. I have some starter dough but don't know how to use it. Any advice out there would sure be appreciated. Thankyou

rincon1 — December 24, 2012 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

rincon1, it's been a long time since I've made any sourdough biscuits. Pretty much, all I'd do is add a cup of starter to any biscuit recipe. Some people add 2 cups but that might make it a bit too sour. You can also add it to a buttermilk biscuit preference. The website for Mother Earth News has some good recipes. Just use your search engine and type in *mother earth news sourdough biscuit recipe.*

I hope I've been some help for you!

goldenoldie — December 24, 2012 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 24, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.

As far as getting that actual vote...I'm thinking the promoters of the current project would rather lose out in the federal funding altogether rather than having the majority opinion slapped across their faces since they've been so blinded as to what the people have been saying for how long now??? And hawk...I totally agree with you in what the needs are with regards to the replacement.

Ohh...if they only kept that twenty-five cent toll going all these years!!! They would've had the funding. That is, if the funding stayed bridge needs.

goldenoldie — December 24, 2012 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**For Unto Us This Day Is Born A Savior, The CHRIST JESUS.**

*MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL*. May we reflect Jesus in all we say and all we do in the coming year. May God hold each of us and our beloved nation safely in His arms. May God's will be done every day.

*HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL MY NON-BELIEVING FRIEND*S. May 2013 shower you with health, happiness and great prosperity.

DeeLittle — December 25, 2012 at 12:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Merry Christmas, all.

roger — December 25, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 24, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.

The grade on the SR14 and 6th Street ramps will also be a problem the higher the bridge gets - especially the exit ramps, where one will have to reduce speed quite rapidly. But this also applies to a 95 foot bridge; these ramps were built for the current bridge. SR14 should be rerouted and tied into the Mill Plain ramps, and 6th Street eliminated, if safety is truly a concern. But I suspect this solution won't support the waterfront project planning.

roger — December 25, 2012 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, that's what I have been saying for years now. Plus they should re-route downtown / I-5 south to Mill Plain / I-5 south. If they did these two they would find less bottlenecks at the bridge.

The ODOT needs to do the same thing with Hayden Island to I-5 north. RE-route it south to come on at distance that cars can merge safely. The other day I saw another fender-bender where they merge AT THE BRIDGE. No one wants to give an inch.

But enough bitchin', lets party down. Remember to drive safe IF you just have to go out in this slop.

JohnCasey — December 25, 2012 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 25, 2012 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you Golden Oldie, I knew I could count on you. I will see what mother earth has to say. Have a nice day and stay worm.

rincon1 — December 25, 2012 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Merry Christmas to all...We've got special egg breakfast in Oven, Juice ob the counter Rolls waiting for Oven and a Red drink mix in my hand...
Had a great Early Christmas call from our son in Afganistan, what a treat... He doesn't like Afgan Chicken for some reason..LOL He hasn't received our Christmas box yet/// Have a great day ALL:)

vanwadreamer — December 25, 2012 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To ALL I wish a very Merry Christmas!!!

rincon1, glad I was able to help. fantastic it must've been to hear your son's voice. Definitely a good Christmas gift for you and your family!



goldenoldie — December 25, 2012 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey everyone, It's a nice Christmas, my Grandkids are here and two friends of theirs from Vegas, big breakfast done and the ham is in the oven, presents have been opened and everyone is in a napping mood.

Hope everyone is having a great day.

I don't feel older, HaHa.

hawkeye — December 25, 2012 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And a good one to all! Had the big dinner with friends and family last night, relaxing today all day, then more dinner at friend's. Belated happy wishes to Hawk. May the rest of the week stay peaceful for all.

luvithere — December 25, 2012 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

SR14 should be rerouted and tied into the Mill Plain ramps, and 6th Street eliminated

roger — December 25, 2012 at 6:05 a.m.

That should happen NOW!

Thanks luv, it's today so you're not late. ;-)

hawkeye — December 25, 2012 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning everyone.

I hope all had a wonderful Christmas.

Thanks Hawkeye for the birthday wishes! Mine was full of flowers and phone calls from family. Great news about a friend, skype time with my 2 grandsons. Oldest (14) played his clarinet and sax for me. The youngest (19months)
played peek-a-boo with me and talked about colors.. I am so very proud of the oldest, he is 1st chair at his jr high band, and 3 chair in the all city jr symphony with the clarinet and 3 chair in jazz band with the sax at the high school. Very proud grandmom here for sure.
Dinner at my favorite Thai restaurant, couldn't ask for a better day. I hope your birthday was as full of love and fun as mine.

ELISI — December 26, 2012 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So happy to hear your stories of Christmas and birthdays with loving family and friends, all! We all have much to be grateful for and it is good to focus on the real gifts of life.

I wanted to commend journalist Sue Vorenberg for her story about Chuck Chronis' annual free Christmas dinner yesterday. She took the time to interview a few homeless folks and their stories are worth telling. Chuck Chronis is a community treasure.

Warmest wishes and kindest thoughts to all my basement forum friends! You keep me on my toes and I appreciate that you share your passions so honestly. What a boring world it would be without diversity of opinion...

manthou — December 26, 2012 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I love this Starbuck's story.

Washington DC area Starbucks employees will be hand-writing this message on all coffee cups served:

"Come Together"

With the fiscal cliff five days away, we will see if it has any positive effect on the motivation of the heel-diggers.

We had a friend over yesterday who works for a legislator in a neighboring state. He said that his office has not seen so many letters and emails with similar messages in his entire career. The natives are angry and restless.

Maybe we should all email this sentiment to our representatives.

Could not hurt.

[link text][1]


manthou — December 26, 2012 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 26, 2012 at 9:57 a.m

Great idea, I sent one to Jamie. Wonder if she will read it?

hawkeye — December 26, 2012 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Journal News in Westchester County NY has published a list of households that have gun permits. Thousands of homes can be accessed through a clickable map.

It will start a trend, mark my word. It is getting a lot of flak, mainly because it is exposing which homes do NOT have permits by default, making them more vulnerable? Who knows.

The press never ceases to amaze me on what they can find through public records to have fun exposing.

Take a peek to see what is in store for our area soon:

[link text][1]


manthou — December 26, 2012 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 26, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.

I know they are public records but I see a lawsuit in the making. Multnomah County asks CCWP holders if they want to keep their identities secret. I said yes.

hawkeye — December 26, 2012 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I say yes, too, hawkeye. Seems to me that this is sensational journalism for its own sake.

Just because you CAN publish certain public records does not mean that you SHOULD.

Makes me think that folks will get a permit, but not a gun, just to give the illusion that their homes are protected, in case their permit information is disclosed.

Any idea if CC gives permit applicants an opportunity for confidentiality?

manthou — December 26, 2012 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't remember if it is an option but I don't think so.

Here is the letter from Oregon (or something like it since my permit is in Multnomah County)

Notice to All Concealed Handgun License Holders

November 14, 2008

Dear Concealed Handgun License Holder,

There is currently a statewide issue regarding the disclosure of the names, addresses and other identifying information of people who have concealed handgun licenses that affects you. Essentially, the media and other groups are asking for lists of information about all the people who hold concealed handgun licenses.

As your sheriff, I refused to disclose that information because I believe many people obtain a concealed handgun license for personal security and would not want that information made public. I also resist disclosing personal information because of the continuing identity theft risks.

Despite my belief (shared by sheriffs across Oregon), an Oregon court recently decided that there is no evidence that people obtain concealed handgun licenses for security measures. The court ordered the Jackson County Sheriff to disclose a list of all the concealed handgun license holders in his county to the local newspaper. The case is now before the Oregon Court of Appeals.

While I believe you obtained your concealed handgun license as a security measure and that you do not want that information disclosed with your name, address and other personal information, I need to hear from you on this issue to help me defend your privacy in this matter.

Please answer the two questions at the bottom of this letter as soon as possible. If you want your name and other information to remain confidential, simply answer YES to both questions. Thank you for your cooperation.

Rob Gordon
Rob Gordon
Washington County Sheriff

hawkeye — December 26, 2012 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some idiot commercial for a TV Hall of Fame type show last night declared - quite unequivocally - that Led Zeppelin was the greatest rock band of all time. Guess they forgot about these guys.

roger — December 27, 2012 at 5:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Plagiarism and Fabrication in the Press 2012

The press loves end-of-the-year retrospective stories.

Here is one that we will probably not see published anywhere but at the Poynter Institute link: more journalistic fabrication in 2012 than any other year since 2005 (when stats were kept).

Want to know where these journalists worked? Check it out:

[link text][1]


manthou — December 27, 2012 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Some nuts and bolts as to why media can make stuff up.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**The 9 Wildest Things Fox News Said In 2012 (VIDEO)**

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 27, 2012 at 8:36 a.m

Google "media lies" One could spend all day reading how all of the news medias lies and why. Not just one or two but they all do it.
I'm afraid that the days of truth in journalism is gone and we'll never see it again. Days of Huntley, Brinkley, and Cronkite are long gone.

ELISI — December 27, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 8:42 a.m.

After watching your linked video, I noticed that most if not all of the segments were commentary. Isn't it the purpose of commentary to make outrageous statements? Additionally, isn't it more honest to make politically biased remarks as commentary, as opposed to huffingtonpost who puts forth their politically biased statements as news? I am not defending Fox news, but they are no worse than MSNBC, Media Matters or Huffington post.

frobert — December 27, 2012 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- *After watching your linked video,*

For reference sake, I assume both?

*Isn't it the purpose of commentary to make outrageous statements?*


*I am not defending Fox news, but they are no worse than MSNBC, Media Matters or Huffington post.*

It's the old "one does it all do it" thing. Please put forth any data you might have to back up your claim said parties share blame somewhat equally. In the past I've put forth much data, to include comparative studies from leading universities which read Fox News is far and away the leader of spreading journalistic BS.

Bias exists within us all and naturally bleeds somewhat into news. Some issues as a society we should be biased about, such as civil rights and liberties.

It's the degree and magnitude of false information that should be on the front line of attack. As the vid at 8:39 points out. Media corruption seems to a protected right. It's by and large up to us to determine fact from falsehoods.

Maybe it's time to discuss the pro's and con's of the Fairness Doctrine.

This is one reason many on the right support a RW party when otherwise they would have second thoughts. Allowing RW media to blur lines of accountability and factual information.

Kinda like Romney saying their campaign wouldn't be held hostage by "fact checkers".

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hackers target Westboro Baptist Church after Newtown threat

After church leaders announce plans to protest at site of school massacre, Anonymous posts the personal information for dozens of members of the extremist group, including names, e-mail addresses, and phone numbers.;_cid=e757

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*More "biased" news from HuffPo, but I still can't decide if they're promoting natural gas usage or not. Considering the term "a Fox smells it's own hole first", perhaps we should consult a particular news station for clarity.*

**Employee Issued 5-Page Formal Reprimand For Farting At Work**

A Social Security Administration employee was formally reprimanded earlier this month for for excessive workplace flatulence, according to a Dec. 10 letter obtained by The Smoking Gun.

The 38-year-old, who worked out of a Baltimore office, was hit with a five-page letter detailing the dates and times of his noxious offenses. The letter informed the worker that his “uncontrollable flatulence” created an “intolerable” and “hostile” environment for coworkers -- many of which had lodged complaints.

The letter's log cited 17 dates, and 60 specific times, that the worker allegedly passed gas. The formal reprimand appears to have been a last resort for management, who they say addressed the embarrassing issue with the worker multiple times. (The employee allegedly submitted no evidence to indicate that he can't control the problem).

While the federal employee currently only has to deal with an embarrassing letter in his personnel file, there are others who have lost their jobs for less. In July, a receptionist in Minnesota claims she was fired from her job at the hospital's Cancer Center because she smelled of smoke at work. The receptionist was indeed a regular smoker, but she claims she never smoked while on the job or on break.

Read more @

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The receptionist was indeed a regular smoker, but she claims she never smoked while on the job or on break.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.

Yea, but have you ever been around someone who has smoked 4 cigs in an enclosed car on their way to work? Also, if you are a "regular smoker", you cannot go 8 hours without a smoke, I don't care who you are.

All fart boy has to do is get a note from his doctor.

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.

Your rambling incoherent post does absolutely nothing to dispel the facts. The actual factual data which I have linked to in the past does show that conservative sources are no more biased than liberal ones, your anecdotal evidence is just that, not grounded in fact.

frobert — December 27, 2012 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- *Yea, but have you ever been around someone who has smoked 4 cigs in an enclosed car on their way to work?*

Oh yeah. I related to this story somewhat. In supervisory roles I've had in the past, I've had a few instances when I've issued a few verbal warnings for excessive body odor based on employee complaints, but never had to put it in writing.

I most cases employees tend to take care of these things without it reaching management, but when it does...ya gotta love it!



frobert- *Your rambling incoherent post*

Please cite passage so I may clarify. Not understanding your confusion. Using verbiage such as "incoherent" and "rambling", seeks to induce a vitriolic response and deserves no reply. But it's the holidays, and I know you sometimes use this tactic to obfuscate a lack of argument or understanding on your part. Again, please specify what you don't understand.

*factual data which I have linked to in the past does show that conservative sources are no more biased than liberal ones*

Again, please provide information. Many times I've cited "cut & pasted" articles from leading Universities, to include Fordham and Maryland to validate my statements concerning this.

But if your response consists of nothing more than a nasty inference mixed with a lack of substantive thought, try another time.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, I had a guy that worked for me that was French and he took a bath once a week on Sunday. The rest of the time he'd dump on the cologne. Towards the end of the week he was impossible to be around. I had to talk to him a several times and finally had to send it upstairs. Twice!

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

fro, that's pretty good, "according to an *editorial*" MSNBC is more biased than FOX (almost the news). So?

At least the articles are truthful!

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also, since the ratio of negative to positive stories on MSNBC on Romney was higher than the ratio of negative to positive stories on FOX about Obama, could it be that there was MORE negative crap available on Romney?

Just saying....

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:24 p.m.

The article is referencing a non partisan Pew study.

frobert — December 27, 2012 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*At least the articles are truthful!*

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:24 p.m.

Exactly! It's the false information that circulates. As far as national media goes, I don't mind bias as long as both sides are presented truthfully and with journalistic integrity. There's a show or two and commentators from Fox who imo meet that bar.

Problem is they are few and far between.

It's the lies and false representations designed to skew the news with political/other bias to serve an agenda.

I used to enjoy hearing William F. Buckley drone on. Ate it up. I disagreed with much but appreciated a well thought presentation. Something thought provoking. At times George Will and a couple of others bring it, but so few do on the right. With the RW media domination for over a decade, you'd think someone would emerge in the vein of a Bill Buckley but not so.

Today's GOP have moved so much to the right, having a thoughtful orator (Sowell maybe?) gets drowned out by the Birthers and Baggers, and they all seem to end up either at Fox or promoted by Fox.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd like to see Jon Huntsmen rise up. But it seems Republican leadership have chosen a different direction.

A blast from the past.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I had to talk to him a several times and finally had to send it upstairs. Twice!*

hawkeye — December 27, 2012 at 3:03 p.m.

And a difficult conversation to have! It's like, how do I say Dude, you stink, your co-workers think you stink, they tell me you stink, I think you a bar of soap! I knew one guy (a new hire) was hurting so I stuck a three pack of Zest in his locker. It worked.

I mean, what is it with some folks neglecting personal hygiene when they don't have to. If it's a matter of living out of a car, being homeless or sick etc. is one thing and needs addressing on several levels, but to stink when there's not a reason to stink...

That just stinks.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**All I Want for Christmas Is a New GOP**

*You call that governing? Amid dismal fiscal-cliff talks and an even worse reaction to the shooting in Newtown, Mark McKinnon throws cold water on his wayward party.*

What I want for Christmas is a new Republican Party. Or I’ll take the old Republican Party of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, or George W. Bush. What I don’t want is the Republican Party we have today. As former George W. Bush and John McCain adviser Nicolle Wallace said, “I’m just tired of the Republican Party being the Stupid Party.”

All sanity seems to have left the ranks of those in charge of the GOP—or, more accurately, those who want to be in charge. Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-Kan.) demonstrated in a jaw-dropping performance Thursday on Morning Joe the depth of the problem and why we are bound to go over the fiscal cliff. He made it clear he won’t vote for a tax increase on anyone, no matter how much they make. So, by his logic, we will end up going over the cliff, and raise taxes on everybody, because he and too many others like him in the party are unwilling to raise taxes on anyone. This intransigence will also make a core Republican tenet of broader tax reform more difficult to pursue because the new Congress will then be fixated on smaller bore issues like fixing the rates.

And so voters look at the “negotiations” and see on one side the president—the guy who just won the election by a substantial margin—willing to compromise by lowering his revenue target from $1.6 trillion to $1.2 trillion and moving the goalpost for tax-rate increases from $250,000 a year to $400,000 a year. And on the other side, they see Republicans like Huelskamp responding with a one-finger salute to everything.

Read more @

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Christian right blames atheists for Sandy Hook shootings**

*First gays, then Jon Stewart, now the nonbelievers. It was only a matter of time*

All that was needed to make the national tragedy of the killing of 20 children and 6 adults into an anti-God kick in Jesus’ teeth fest was for the usual suspects who hate Jesus to step up to defame His Name again. Of course I’m talking about the “Christian” leaders who can be counted on to drag the name of Christ through the mud at every profitable fundraising importunity. Christian leaders say that the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut was the result of our national falling away from fundamentalist Protestant gullibility.

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 11:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 11:28 p.m

It was the Democratic party that blamed the gays, everybody knows that Fred Phelps speaks for the democratic party.

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Howdy, holy-c.

Welcome to the basement. Careful what you touch... you don't wanna get anything on ya.

Do you have a link to this conspiracy theory of which you write? Since the neck surgery I don't do much looking up ;^)

Drift — December 28, 2012 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow, just read where Chicago just had their 500th murder by gun this year! Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Makes one question just what does banning guns do?,0,5456581.story

Then on the topside I read about another person attacked and stabbed. Someone is calling for a ban on knives with blades over 3 inches. Can you imagine trying to cut a turkey or ham at holiday time with a 3 inch knife?

What will be next, plastic bags (suffocation) rocks, tire irons, baseball bats, cars, electricity, water, razor blades, toothbrushes, hat pins, lamp base, trophies .....

ELISI — December 28, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: I agree with your call for reason and restraint, if I interpret your 7:59 am comment correctly.

I very much worry about the quick passage of knee-jerk legislation based on fear, not fact., for any issue. It almost never winds up to be good public policy and it snares a whole lotta law-abiding citizens in its wake, not to mention costing untold millions to implement and litigate its court challenges.

I actually surprised myself by agreeing with many points made by an NRA officer yesterday when he was being challenged by an emotional Carol Costello and I am decidedly NOT someone who wants to arm more people to keep the world safe. He was calm and answered many of her emotional missiles with fact and research.

Human brains do not work well when they are commandeered by emotion and fear (flight-or-fight). We might as well use goat guts and dice to inform our decisions during this brain state. By comparison, this crude prediction method would probably provide an answer that is more statistically accurate.

holyc: I have some time on my hands this morning and intend to check out the conspiracy theories to which you refer at 5:42 am.

manthou — December 28, 2012 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 27, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.

Well done!

mr_basil_seal — December 28, 2012 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC @ 8:29 a.m.

holycrapola, indeed.

Drift — December 28, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

everybody knows .....
frobert — December 28, 2012 at 6:49 a.m.

Please show us the list of "everybody".

Show us some quotes acknowledging him as a spokesman.

mr_basil_seal — December 28, 2012 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The House passed legislation earlier this year put forth by house Republicans that would extend all tax rates at current levels and replace the sequester with longer-range cuts to mandatory spending programs. The Senate lead Democrats haven't even brought those up behind closed doors to be looked at, and possibly be sent back to the house to be re worked in any fashion, instead opting to say the Republicans are the ones to blame if we go over the cliff... Small businesses will be hurt greatly which will start another slow unemployment slide...The middle class will also see their taxes go up as well... Any gains earned over past 2 years will be lost in next year...There are many facets of this Fiscal cliff that will have huge consequences in the coming years...That will affect the middle class, seniors and those on unemployment. This is one huge gamble for this president to not take action that would benefit most of us... This will define this Presidents legacy for sure...

vanwadreamer — December 28, 2012 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I got a headache trying to sort out all the conspiracy subplots that connect Aurora to Newtown.

Both shooter dads were getting ready to testify against LIBOR.
Nancy Lanza was a CIA operative and all her weapons are CIA issue.
Foreign shooters were responsible for Aurora and Newtown and Lanza and Holmes are actually victims with the other dead in retaliation for US drone attacks on innocent children.
Psychiatric medication research and video games: Holmes psychiatrist was active in that human subject research and Lanza tested those video games for the government.

It is a fascinating plot web worthy of any Bourne Identity movie and I will follow for the helluvit.

In the meantime, I focus on what we actually know that the journalists got wrong about Newtown. Here is just another example from New York Mag:

[link text][1]


Reporters should take the time to get it right before getting the scoop.

Stay tuned. This is interesting.

manthou — December 28, 2012 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 28, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.

Or it could be the combination of listening to that British chick on the Vonage commercial and eating Taco Bell at the same time. That will drive ANYBODY crazy and it messes with your meds.

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, something else to add to your info...if I remember correctly, when the shooting happened at Sandy Hook, the news reported that the shooter had his brothers ID.

Then news reported that the older brother and the younger (shooter) had not been in contact with each other for over 2 yrs.
Now if the shooter had his older brothers ID, and they hadn't seen each other for 2 yrs, how did the shooter get the older brothers ID?

That is the one thing that has stuck with me.
I also find it odd that both the Sandy Hook and the Aurora shooters dad's both work/ed for GE.

ELISI — December 28, 2012 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 1:45 pm: Needed that chuckle! Muchas gracias!

ELISI @ 1:46 pm: Yep. I have to admit, I am intrigued by the many unanswered questions and the fact that the press kept getting it so wrong in their reporting. Were they purposely fed misinformation? It never made sense to me that a suburban soccer mom, allegedly living off alimony in a home worth nearly one million dollars, would be so heavily armed, but maybe I don't run with the right crowd.

I do know this: nothing surprises me when it comes to the ability of government to cover their tracks and obscure the truth. If any of these rumors have legs, I expect there are a few crack investigative reporters left who remember what responsible journalism looks like and will track and capture the truth eventually.

In the meantime, it makes for fascinating reading.

manthou — December 28, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's a start from a reliable source, the CS Monitor. I did not know about the LIBOR financial scandal, but this was information we all might want to chew on when we think the 1% still need a break:

[link text][1]

Rumor: The fathers of both Aurora and Newtown shooters were scheduled to testify in front of the US Senate about LIBOR. Lanza worked for GE Capital and Holmes worked for FICO.


manthou — December 28, 2012 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — December 28, 2012 at 9:23 a.m.

If liberals on this forum can claim that Rush Limbaugh speaks for all republicans why can't I claim that Fred Phelps or Lyndon LaRouche, Jr. speak for all democrats?

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.

Drrrrrr, cause they don't!

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.

And Limbaugh doesn't speak for all republicans, so what is your point?

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Life isn't always like a box of chocolates...*

**112th Congress Set To Become Most Unproductive Since 1940s**

WASHINGTON -- As 2012 comes to a close, the 112th Congress is set to go down in American history as **the most unproductive session since the 1940s.**


While Obama has signed several pieces of large, consequential legislation in the past two years -- such as sanctions on Iran and the National Defense Authorization Act, allowing the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects without charge -- many of the bills passed by Congress have been small and noncontroversial.

At least 40 bills, including ones awaiting Obama's signature, concerned the renaming of post offices or other public buildings. Another six dealt with commemorative coins.

Meanwhile, significant pieces of legislation that have traditionally received bipartisan support -- such as the **reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act -- have been blocked.**

House Republicans have also held votes to repeal Obamacare **more than 30 times since gaining control of the chamber in 2011**, despite the fact that such a measure has no chance of passing the Democratically controlled Senate or being signed by Obama.

When asked for comment on the record of the 112th Congress, Adam Jentleson, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), pointed to the **115 times the Republican minority has held up a bill's passage by threatening to filibuster it. House Speaker John Boehner's (R-Ohio) office did not return a request for comment.**

The lack of bipartisanship in Congress has been lost on no one. In April, Thomas Mann of the left-leaning Brookings Institution and Norm Ornstein of the conservative American Enterprise Institute published a Washington Post op-ed saying that **the GOP deserves the blame for the dysfunction.**

"We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional," they wrote. **"In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party."**

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) also cited the hyper-partisan, unproductive atmosphere of Congress when she announced her retirement in February.

"[W]hat I have had to consider is how productive an additional term would be. Unfortunately, I **do not realistically expect the partisanship of recent years in the Senate** to change over the short term," she said. "So at this stage of my tenure in public service, I have concluded that I am not prepared to commit myself to an additional six years in the Senate, which is what a fourth term would entail."

**Congress' approval rating currently stands at 18 percent.**

Read more @

nailingit — December 28, 2012 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.

Never said he did, but Reagan did.

Ronald Reagan sent Limbaugh a letter in which he thanked him "for all you're doing to promote Republican and conservative principles ... [and] you have become the Number One voice for conservatism in our Country.

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 28, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.

Passing less laws is a good thing. When the political parties agree we usually get stupid or reactionary laws.

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 10:14 p.m

Can you cite a reputable source for that?

Not that it really matters, Limbaugh has never held elected office, or any leadership position within a political party. Fred Phelps was invited to both Clinton inaugurations, he also shares Al Gore and Robert Byrds hatred of homosexual, so I think that makes him a spokesperson for the democratic party.

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 28, 2012 at 10:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — December 28, 2012 at 10:44 p.m

Good thing for US, what you "think" doesn't really count.

Oh, and....

hawkeye — December 28, 2012 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A huge shout-out from me this morning to Lou B for his Press Talk column!

No matter how much I gripe in general about the downfall of great journalism these days, The Columbian and its editor and reporters really love the community they serve.

Sometimes this comes out loud and clear:

[link text][1]


manthou — December 29, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Fiscal cliff: Republicans have no principles**

*There's no deal because the GOP's confused: They're against voting to raise taxes, even if that raises taxes more*

This isn’t a decision about war and peace, or abortion, or gay and lesbian rights – issues on which compromise is exceedingly hard to find because of the nature of the issue. A nation can’t be halfway at war; abortion either is or isn’t murder. Budget disputes – overall spending totals, and especially tax questions – are by nature just not like that. A few billion more for the Pentagon or a few billion less? That’s exactly the kind of question normally solved by striking a deal.


**1.)** Is it about never raising taxes, no matter what? Even putting aside what a silly principle this would be, it’s clearly not what they’re fighting for since they don’t seem to care at all about the tax increase involved in the expiration of the payroll tax cut, not to mention that their failure to compromise on the Bush-era tax rates will produce an even larger tax increase. So the principle appears to be not about what happens to taxes, but about never voting to raise taxes, even if that means taxes go up more. A strange principle indeed.

**2.)** Or perhaps the principle is on the spending side. Some Republicans appear to believe that they were elected to return government to the size it was before the New Deal, and that anything else is an unconstitutional and probably ungodly perversion of the Republic. Granted, that principle doesn’t (for almost all of them) seem to extend to the size of the military or restrictions on the government’s ability to do who-knows-what in the name of fighting terrorism, not to mention intrusions into bedrooms. But putting that aside, it’s a way of elevating relatively small differences into a matter of first principles – just not one that Republicans have any chance of winning.

**3.)** Or perhaps it just comes down, for many Tea Partiers, to a principled opposition to compromise at all.

If it’s the first of these, then a deal may be surprisingly easy – as soon we go over the cliff and they can vote for “tax cuts” instead of “raising taxes,” even if the end result is identical or even results in higher taxes.

If it’s the second one, then it’s just a case of convincing the holdouts (at least if there are enough to torpedo any deal) that, yes, Mitt Romney lost the election and the New Deal isn’t going to be repealed for at least the next four years.

If it’s the third … well, those who believe in that “principle” just have to be left behind, and the remainder of the Republican conference needs to accept that there’s nothing that can be done about it.

Read more @

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 28, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.

LIBOR is quite important in the financial world, and the interest rate manipulations described in the article you linked to are a tip of the ice berg. In the USA, Lehman Bros failure can be linked to LIBOR; homeowner interest rates have been inflated, resulting in higher loss; and city municipal bonds tied to the derivatives market have lost earnings.

The Senate Banking Committee started their own investigation into LIBOR this past summer, and an offshoot of this is an investigation into Treasury Sec'y Geithner - he's accused of complicity with the interest rate manipulations during his days as Pres of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Between this and his free distribution of taxpayer money under TARP after appointment to Treasury, he clearly shows himself to be serving the banks (not the People), and perhaps the most unwise appointment made by the Obama Administration.

And this is a perfect example of why I can't get excited about the ongoing arguments here over the evils of the Dems and the Repubs - they both serve the same masters, and that sure isn't us.

roger — December 29, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- I don't follow global finance like you and many others, at least not to the degree some do, my head isn't wired that way and other issues get my attention.

*And this is a perfect example of why I can't get excited about the ongoing arguments here over the evils of the Dems and the Repubs - they both serve the same masters, and that sure isn't us.*

I'm not getting your point, and given that LIBOR is a global issue with endless tentacles, how is this a perfect example of much?

American policy making, from economic to social issues impact us all at the local level and cover much more ground than this imo, and to lump all in the same mold and herald LIBOR as a perfect example of party indifference, well.....could you expound a bit?

I did some refreshing on LIBOR and thought others might find these links helpful I did.

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 8:40 am: I am embarrassed that the LIBOR scandal slipped below my radar. I guess I was focusing on the election when reading the news. This issue still does not get the attention it deserves.

I so agree that there is financial corruption on both sides and the have's rule the have nots. This is why citizen oversight is important and powerful.

I have been following the downfall of Langley WA's new mayor. He was wearing too many hats and abused his office by back-dating some planning approvals that benefitted a family member.

Who uncovered this? A retired former Langley resident and citizen journalist named Skip Demuth in his blog. Yesterday the mayor was sentenced to jail time.

The citizens and council rallied to his defense and effectively said: We do not care if you break the law because we love you so much.

Someone has to watch the hen house and it ain't the foxes.

manthou — December 29, 2012 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @9:21 am: Thanks for the links. I have some work to do to catch up on this one.

Better use of my time (as opposed to chasing wild rumors, like I did yesterday). :)

manthou — December 29, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- The links involve Matt Taibbi and arguably bias, but I think factually correct.

I believe government oversight is important as well, as long as the inmates aren't running the asylum.

I think Elizabeth Warren will make a great contribution to the banking side.

What little reform and regulation that has taken place seems to have come from the left side of the aisle. If both parties would pull together and get meaningful legislation/financial reform that'd be great. But if ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.

Elizabeth Warren is one of the good guys; she's been voicing her concerns about our gov't policies for a while now.

roger — December 29, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, who woulda thought. Giving Mr Ed a few strokes can "cure" homosexuality.

**Raymond Bell, Pastor Of The Cowboy Church of Virginia, Claims Stroking Horses Can 'Cure' Homosexuality**

The idea that a gay person can be "cured" of his or her homosexuality is not a new one. For centuries doctors, therapists and religious figures have tried a wide variety of techniques -- from pray to surgery to exorcism -- to "convert" men and women "suffering" from same-sex attractions.

But we have to admit that the "reparative" therapy used by Raymond Bell, pastor of the Cowboy Church of Virginia, is one of the strangest we've come across.

**According to Gay Star News, Bell claims that the use of Equine Assisted Psychotherapy, or sessions involving the stroking of horses, can aid in the "curing" of maladies and "addictions" like homosexuality.**

"EAP can help any person who is living the homosexual lifestyle or involved in it in anyway," he told Gay Star News.

Though it isn't clear exactly how EAP works to rid a gay person of their "affliction," Gay Star News notes that **it can supposedly make gay men more masculine and that it is used to "identify how a person got 'involved' in homosexuality to begin with...** for example, because of rape, abandonment, lacking a male role model, abuse and having low self-esteem."

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

If someone goes to this pastor and wants to be "cured" isn't that their business? I have been a vocal proponent of gay marriage and equal treatment, but if someone considers it an affliction than shouldn't they have a right to seek a cure?

frobert — December 29, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 1:58- Not sure your straw man foray is adequate...straw horse? A bit silly.

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.

You should look up the definition of "straw man fallacy" as you obviously have no clue what it means.

frobert — December 29, 2012 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

Just exactly what part of the horse would they be "stroking"?

hawkeye — December 29, 2012 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn, Hawkeye!! I was scrolling down to make the same comment, and saw you beat me to it.

roger — December 29, 2012 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As a follow up to manthou's LIBOR post from yesterday, I was looking at articles addressing the link between a couple of shooters and their fathers testifying on LIBOR and found this one. Interesting theory - that the real James Holmes is being held hostage to keep his father from testifying, and the killer is a psycho stand in. It's hard to compare a color photo to a black & white one, but the noses do appear different. Whatever - guess Jesse Ventura needs to get involved.

roger — December 29, 2012 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 3:07- *you obviously have no clue what it means.*

Please, enlighten me frobert. Understanding at times you have issues with context, perhaps you just need clarification. Kinda like your 12/27 @ 1:03 remark about "rambling incoherent" posts.

What is it you're not grasping?

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye/roger @ :57 & 02- *Just exactly what part of the horse would they be "stroking"?*

I don't know. But I'd advise them to stay away from any named "Trigger".

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Saddle up!!

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 4:19- Jesse might need extra muscle to break this open. One word.


nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.

Another form of "straw man" argument not mentioned in the link below is to replace the group with a subset or straw man and argue against that.

frobert — December 29, 2012 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 29, 2012 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

President Obama on Meet The Press this morning. Most times in the spirit of bi-partisanship and humility he doesn't point out the glaring obstructionism this republican party brings.

Sounds like those days are over thank God. Maybe it'll wake a few wingers up.

*The only thing I would caution against, David, is I think this notion of, "Well, both sides are just kind of unwilling to cooperate." And that's just not true. I mean if you look at the facts, what you have is a situation here where the Democratic Party, warts and all, and certainly me, warts and all, have consistently done our best to try to put country first.*

*And to try to work with everybody involved to make sure that we've got an economy [that] grows. Make sure that it works for everybody. Make sure that we're keeping the country safe. And does the Democratic Party still have some knee-jerk ideological positions and are there some folks in the Democratic Party who sometimes aren't reasonable? Of course. That's true of every political party.*

*But generally if you look at how I've tried to govern over the last four years and how I'll continue to try to govern, I'm not driven by some ideological agenda. I am a pretty practical guy. And I just want to make sure that things work. And one of the nice things about never having another election again, I will never campaign again, is I think you can rest assured that all I care about is making sure that I leave behind an America that is stronger, more prosperous, more stable, more secure than it was when I came into office.*


nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I've always thought the best way to fix something is to understand how it got broken.*

*May the 2010 debacle never repeat itself.*

**David Brooks: Fiscal Cliff Blame Should Largely Go To Republicans**

New York Times columnist David Brooks said Sunday that Republicans should shoulder most of the blame if lawmakers do not reach an agreement on the fiscal cliff ahead of Tuesday's deadline.

"What's happening in Washington right now is pathetic. When you think about what the revolutionary generation did, what the civil war generation did, what the World War II generation did -- we're asking not to bankrupt our children and we've got a shambolic, dysfunctional process," Brooks said during an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"Most of the blame still has to go to the Republicans," he continued. "They've had a brain freeze since the election. They have no strategy. They don't know what they want. They haven't decided what they want."

Brooks' comments echoed a similar assessment from President Obama, who sat down with "Meet the Press" for an interview that aired Sunday morning.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is said that if you build it they will come.

If that is true then if you build LOO-RAIL they will come, eh?? But first you must build the garages that house the cars that people will drive there to board the choo-choo. Then you have to find out how to deal with more congestion in and out of downtown. How about that operation and maintenance monies? How much will parking cost in those garages?

With eco-friendly buses you can do two major things you just can't do with tracks. You can tailor routes and times to fit the needs. Plus it would cost a heck of lot less over the same time period.

Most of the articles and comments I have seen focus pretty much on the the fact that the CRC wants to shove a dinosaur down our throats.

Build the bridge and make so that you can have your little train tracks but don't put them in right now.

And for lands sakes DO NOT LET SOME FOOLS OVER IN OREGON start a toll on I-205. You want to kill the fatted calf that is the quickest way I know of. (Heard this Friday night on the radio as I was crossing I-205 bridge)

JohnCasey — December 30, 2012 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — December 30, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.

B B B B B Bennie and the jetsssssss.

"Build the bridge and make so that you can have your little train tracks but don't put them in right now"

Man, that's what I've been saying all along. Mr. Peterson's design was perfect and he has all the right answers to all the tough questions but nobody's listening.

Also, I don't believe in the "Downtown plan". If and when the LRT is built, it needs to go up I-5 to the Fairgrounds with stops at Fourth Plain, Hazel Dell park and ride, Salmon Creek park and ride and the Fairgrounds. It's the only way to keep the congestion down and maximize the riders.

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...meanwhile back at the ranch...

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John Casey,

Not sure who or what you were listening to, but tolling the Glenn Jackson in support of the CRC was nixed and put to rest at the close of our last State legislative session. (I believe it was Ann Rivers who got that put in, as part of the budget compromise.) WA DOT is the responsible party for the CRC project; while both states will provide tolling input, WA will be the implementing state. As far as Oregon goes, their laws say any road tolling has to be used for the road tolled - so while the 205 could stand resurfacing (again), they can't toll the 205 to pay for the CRC. And there's also something somewhere that says the federal gov't needs to approve any tolling of interstates.

I have heard the topic addressed recently; this was in response to that recent poll saying people would use the 205 rather than pay a toll on the 5. As near as I can tell, this is mostly being put out there by people who want the CRC to proceed, and who are reading the CRC's tolling scenario page without taking into consideration the above info. Also, I suspect they're starting to get the picture that tolls on the 5 will be a bit higher than the couple of dollars one way CRC's tolling scenarios suggest - this due to a traffic analysis prepared in 2006 that hasn't panned out.

And you might read Jim Moeller's answer to me in the Gregoire article today. He will be proposing both a gas tax and a "miles driven" tax, in addition to vehicle excise taxes and another fee or two. That's how he envisions the State raising our $450 million cost share. He wants this to go to a vote by the people (I think it has to) - not sure how it'll play out, but at least they're finally starting to get the idea they have to ask us.

roger — December 30, 2012 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, do you ever read Terry Busch over on the other side? Is he for real?

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was mulling over 2012 politics and how exciting they were! I can't remember a year that brought more drama & theatrics than this one. The debates, this Congress, scandals, the election--it just doesn't get any better!

One of my favorite moments happened at this years DNC. Governor Granholm in all her grandiosity! I love this lady!

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We'll never again see the RW circus as we did this year. The GOP has vowed never to repeat 2012 debate formats.

This years debates gifted us with great insight into the Republican party. I know I'll never forget them.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank God we're headed in a different direction.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:38 p.m.

The one person in the audience who yelled "yeah" is the tea party crowd?

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:38 p.m.

I also noticed that your narrow minded bigoted source left out Paul's response to the last question. Which was basically that no physician would let him die for lack of money. I think Paul is overly optimistic on today's medical community's devotion to their Hippocratic oath.

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.

Again, it sounds like one person booed not the entire GOP. DADT was a democrat idea in the first place with prominent Republicans like Bill Cohen and Barry Goldwater arguing that gays should be accepted in the military and anti-gay democrats like Robert Byrd and Sam Nunn wanting gays excluded from the military. The most vocal anti-gay activists, Fred Phelps and family are democrats.

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 5:01, @ 5:06, & of course..@ 5:12- Thank you for viewing the videos, and as always, thanks for your input.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


everybody is rooting for the tiny premie to survive.

you all DO know that babies at that gestation date are aborted, right.....?

DeeLittle — December 30, 2012 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- I wasn't surprised this election when Ron Paul unexpectedly dropped from the race and essentially, took the money and ran. I believed I predicted it.

I have empathy somewhat for his supporters..on a few levels. But when people drink the same snake oil year after year after year from this guy......

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.

First of all Ron Paul never "dropped out" of the race he was a candidate until the floor nominations. Secondly he did not take campaign funds and "run" the only people convicted of that recently were democrats Jessie Jackson Jr. and John Edwards.

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jim Jones comes to mind.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.

Terry is a bit extreme, isn't he? But there's a bunch like that over there. I think some guy named Mark Owen (or something) got banned for getting a little too nasty with Madore. Mike Newton from P'Town wants all the people from Vantucky to shut up and stay over here. And there's a guy today carrying on about people opposed to the CRC being racists. Don Larrimer got kicked off for a whole lot less than what some of these clowns are saying now that Marshall Matt is gone. I think the only rule left is don't let Editor Lou catch you slamming The Columbian. Seems someone else just got axed for that.

Got to give Jim Moeller points for toughness. He's back every time there's an issue of importance, and he knows he's going to get attacked.

roger — December 30, 2012 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey All...

I just finished reading about the bus crash on I-84 east of Pendleton near Deadman's Pass and so many memories of crossing those deadly curves passed through my mind. When I was a child, we used to take two, maybe three trips a year through those mountains in order to visit Wallowa Lake State Park...Oregon's little Switzerland of America. Many a time, we saw semi trailers in shambles...some left behind because of the dangerous terrain and the impossibility of removal. In more recent years, ODOT had made improvements to straighten out some of those deadly curves...even had the runaway ramps installed for semis who lost their brakes. But still, crossing this pass in weather such as they have had the past few weeks is always high risk. Just following when winter weather occurs gives clues as to the problems they face on this stretch of highway.

Before I'd read the part about where the accident was, I knew exactly where it had happened. A lump in my throat and a chill down my spine formed when I saw the actual picture in the Wallow County Chieftain news site. It confirmed my suspicion.

My thoughts and prayers pour out to the families who have lost their loved ones in this tragic accident and I wish all who were injured, a speedy recovery.

goldenoldie — December 30, 2012 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, are you referencing tiny Harley??? The baby girl born at Legacy Salmon Creek who weighed in at 15 ounces at birth? If so...she is a miracle baby for sure. I don't know how anybody could ever abort a fetus...a developing child. I know I could never. And this little angel pie...her little hand can barely wrap around her mamma's finger...but she's holdin' on!!!

goldenoldie — December 30, 2012 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

typo...that should read Wallowa County Chieftain. Sorry about that!!!

(goldenoldie — December 30, 2012 at 6:32 p.m.)

goldenoldie — December 30, 2012 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Best wishes for the Hill, hang in there.


**Hillary Clinton Admitted To New York Hospital With Blood Clot Following Concussion**

WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was admitted to a New York hospital Sunday after the discovery of a blood clot stemming from the concussion she sustained earlier this month.

Clinton's doctors discovered the clot Sunday while performing a follow-up exam, her spokesman, Philippe Reines, said. He would not elaborate on the location of the clot but said Clinton is being treated with anti-coagulants and would remain at New York-Presbyterian Hospital for at least the next 48 hours so doctors can monitor the medication.

Read more @

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Got to give Jim Moeller points for toughness. He's back every time there's an issue of importance, and he knows he's going to get attacked.

roger — December 30, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.

Well said. I'd also give him points on being reasonable with good ideas a sense of fairness. I'm glad we have Moeller in office. We need more like him.

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Again, it sounds like one person booed not the entire GOP.*

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.

It's not a matter of sound, but a matter of selecting who we want to lead us in forming/enacting good and fair policy. Of course no one asserted "the entire GOP" about anything. But here's a formidable top tier conservative republican presidential candidate's view.

A longer version brings it into focus somewhat.

BTW I'm reading a lot about Rick Perry's "burning desire" to run again, do you think he will? How about Bachman or Santorum or Herman or Newt...2016 should be a lot of fun!

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Our next Republican nominee for President?

nailingit — December 30, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 30, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.

Thanks for your input. I think you meant Bob Larimer, not Don. Yes, he got the boot but then again, so did I. I asked why but the new guy (Hill) didn't know.

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 9:22 p.m.

I think you and Allan got the boot for the same reason as Dee, no photograph. I think Bob got booted for upsetting people, although I don't think his anti Obama statements are any different than many anti Bush rants that they used to allow.

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — December 30, 2012 at 9:32 p.m.

Well I don't know about that. There are several people there that don't have photos of themselves including Terry Busch, and he's still there. No, I don't think that's it.

hawkeye — December 30, 2012 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


they decide who shall and shall not exercise freedom of expression on the site. photographs notwithstanding, i believe it comes down to content.

DeeLittle — December 31, 2012 at 1:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


i think we as a nation are going to pay some heavy penalties due to abortion. those little angels who are born prematurely just underline the horror of killing innocent babies totally dependent on their mothers.

"just a bunch of cells" is the same as saying jews are ok to send to death camps because they're "not *really* human like **us**".

unless science can prove when "human life" begins, ***how in God's name can we risk killing our unborn children*????***

this is another effect of secular "humanism"'s ok as long as you want it to be.

sorry, but there's good and there's evil. you can pretend there's no evil, but that's not going to make it disappear from reality just because secular beliefs deny its existence.

DeeLittle — December 31, 2012 at 1:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — December 31, 2012 at 1:48 a.m.

Well stated, Dee...well stated.

goldenoldie — December 31, 2012 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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