Open Forum, Jan. 9-15



Most read stories on last week:

1.) Stevenson woman, son missing

2.) Police respond to another apparent suicide attempt on I-205 bridge

3.) Police ask for help finding missing woman

4.) Teen collapses, stops breathing at basketball practice

5.) Tax dispute shutters Mattress World stores

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Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor Libby Tucker,, or Social Media Coordinator Matt Wastradowski,



Welcome everyone!

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 9, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning Lou!
How about that football team from Denver. It sure is refreshing seeing someone who is looked upon by half of the football world and wanna be fans as a sideshow more or less and come through when most never would give him a chance and beat the pittsburgh Steelers..Never give up, keep trying, be able to do something other people think you can't..Just thought it was awesome.. Makes me wanna think.... Darn Capthca

vanwadreamer — January 9, 2012 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

uh oh...the basement's been 'occupied'

DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Lou, you know it's the first of the year and the New Years resolutions are starting to collapse and everyone is realizing they can't keep ALL those promises.

I was just thinking, since it IS the time most start over, how about you and Matt have a little "amnesty" party and let some of our old friends come back.

In the spirit of the season?

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


2nd that.

DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OH DEE for Gosh sakes...You must be a Pittsburgh fan, there is always next time... But I'll 3rd that......

vanwadreamer — January 9, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm a Steelers fan, and was completely disgusted with their defense. T-Bone beat them passing! His ability in this area is about that of a top high school QB!

However, for you Bronco fans - the glory ride ends next week. Over the past 6 weeks or so, the Patriots have looked like the best team in the league - I'm saying now that they go to the Bowl and beat the NFC rep (GB, NOLA or other).

roger — January 9, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To tag along with Hawkeye's request to Editor Lou --

I would also appreciate it if The Columbian "reinstated" Allen. (If he was in fact banned.) And I also miss Alleycat's highly entertaining tirades - though I understand why Editor Lou might not agree with this take on them. Which brings me to - just who is officially banned? From other conversations on this, it sounds as if a lot of the people who've gone since the facebook/basement split may have left voluntarily. And may even be posting on the facebook side.

roger — January 9, 2012 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see the Denver Defense puttin a wooping on Mr. Brady.. Could have big affect on Pats.. Whatever the case i will watch. I like both teams.. Don't like the other conference so hoping AFC wins SB.

vanwadreamer — January 9, 2012 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Joe Scarborough said (this morning) that traditionally if the same person took both Iowa and New Hampshire, the rest of the Repub field graciously bowed out and allowed the front runner to begin the campaign against the Dems.

It looks like Romney has already declared himself the candidate - he spends as much (if not more) time criticizing The Pres as he does his opponents.

Any chance the others will go away? I'm still waiting for the Religious Right and whoever represents the Tea Partyers to get together and agree on anti-Romney. Maybe in South Carolina?

roger — January 9, 2012 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Steelers were Gatorized!!

I don't keep track of who is banned but it has been correctly stated that some folks -- Goldenoldie is a good example -- who simply leave on their own.

Some have gone to Facebook. Some have not and have found other places to voice their views. It's a big world out there.

Obviously, we have banned some folks but fewer than you might imagine.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 9, 2012 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh, Big Ben was moving like a three-legged pony. And he still led the Steelers to one of their higher scoring games of the season.

Brady is healthy. Very much so.

roger — January 9, 2012 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Lou got a tip for you, maybe one of your reporters could find out if its true..

The powers that be in the state GOP seems to have already decided that McKenna will be their choice. They are supposed to be unbiased, are they not?

Just wondering..

ELISI — January 9, 2012 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gatorized?? Where's Matt? I didn't think we could get away with cussing here.

roger — January 9, 2012 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's something I've been wondering - why haven't we had a repeat of the old "Are Mormons Christians?" that was going around before the '08 elections? I've attached one of the respectful analyses - a lot of them were pretty nasty.

I've been waiting for this as part of the "Anyone But Romney" movement in the Repub party. Perhaps we haven't heard it because the same people are still engaged elsewhere - Pres Obama being a nonAmerican Muslim gets a lot more play.

roger — January 9, 2012 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

your words are so true about the three legged pony, only problem is Brady is like Stiff standing back there... Only saying Brady has been sacked allott over his career...Gatorized, LOU I like that..
ANTI Romney from the religous right oe tea party..Who might that be??? None are electable....We still may see someone jump in though, maybe even at the convention..

vanwadreamer — January 9, 2012 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bronch's !!!!!!**

..oh,wait. that's the medical procedure. goooo BRONCs.


DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


why are all my fb creplies to pridemore being erased?

DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

REplies, that is

DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No way the Broncs are going any farther than next weekend. Bobo, will get creamed by the Pats and go on vacation.

"I don't keep track of who is banned" oh Lew, we all know better than that.

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — January 9, 2012 at 12:23 p.m.

I don't care who is running against McKenna, He isn't getting my vote. I don't like McKenna, I don't like his attitude, I don't like his disrespect of his boss. If he treats his boss that way, how is he going to react to the voters wishes? No way McKenna gets my vote, PERIOD!

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 2:44 p.m

Not worried about that Hawkeye, it's the fact that
the powers that be in the state GOP are supposed to be unbiased.

I sat here and watched what a botched job the GOP did with McCain and Palin.

ELISI — January 9, 2012 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi, Dee. I sent you an e-mail with an explanation about it.


Matt Wastradowski — January 9, 2012 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Todd Palin Endorses Newt Gingrich For President**

GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich can now tout a Palin endorsement, though not from the "Mama Grizzly" herself.

Todd Palin, husband of former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, announced Monday that he is supporting the former House speaker's campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. Gingrich later told a crowd in New Hampshire of the news, saying that he "really appreciated" it.

Gingrich also tweeted that he was "honored" by Palin's endorsement.

nailingit — January 9, 2012 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 9, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.

HAHAHAHA... Thanks for the laugh.

That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye at 2:44 PM: I agree with you about McKenna. I voted for him for AG because of his consumer-protection advocacy and the fact that the good governor herself endorsed him. But, after I saw how he pandered to the far right by going all "rogue" on the Health Care Reform Act, I turned away.

I will think twice before I vote for any more prosecutors. I know, I know: Gregoire is one.

manthou — January 9, 2012 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*i can't get a message to you. keeps saying 'outgoing only' i'm putting the reply here.*

"Hi, Dee. I saw your question about your Facebook posts not showing up.

The reason they haven't been showing up is because you'd been banned back in September. I'd sent you a message to ask you to verify your identity with us, and you hadn't replied. Per our policy, I subsequently banned you.

I looked you up in the white pages and voter registration database, but couldn't find anything there. Would you be able to help us out there?"

1. i commented on pridemore's fb post, and he replied. all today

2. i noticed my original comment had been deleted. i posted another comment to him. it, too disappeared

3. i then posted a comment asking why my posts were being deleted

4. it was read and commented on by other fb posters, then it, too disappeared.

5. i obviously exist. i obviously have the aol account i said i had. what else is necessary to resolve this issue?

DeeLittle — January 9, 2012 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seriously? The voter registration database and the white pages? Now that's some big time checking, 'cause everybody that's anybody is in the "white pages". That is unless you don't have a landline and use your cell only. And do I have to remind you of the "Josephine Wentzel" incident? You know, where her "job" couldn't be verified because she used a slightly different first name (Jojo)? And on that note, what the heck is it with these women changing their names after the election. Jamie did it (added a name) and now Jojo has done it. Geese, give me a break already! But I digress, if you have a facebook page, that should be good enough. I mean, really, what difference does it make?

hawkeye — January 9, 2012 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Rick Santorum’s ‘Family’ Sham**

Santorum has been running around New Hampshire talking about family as the answer to everything. If it were only true. At one event, he told a young girl that perhaps family and friends could help with her severely disabled brother who has faced a cut in federal entitlements for his care. Later, in dramatic hushed tones, he told students asking about gays marrying and adopting children that kids need a mom and dad. It prompted one stunned student to ask, “What—only straight couples can adopt them?”

nailingit — January 9, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The guitar god ages, and his contemporary (Jeff Beck) doesn't look a day over....

There's a Lady Clairol jingle trying to be made here.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 5:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

re: the Matt contacting DeeLittle "controversy."

I'm suspecting that there's an underlying premise at play here. That being that Basement denizens are using fictitious names, or otherwise posting so there identity can't be determined. So, if someone shows up on the facebook side using the same name - bells go off and a verification check is triggered.

On the one hand, I've had a hard time buying into the "we have to verify your existence" bit - I've seen plenty of posts on The Columbian's facebook page from what looks like phony names. Some get challenged - some don't. I gather, from comments Matt has made previously, that complaints from other posters are probably the most common trigger for a verification check and subsequent warning about what you say. HOWEVER, there are several frequent posters there whose sole purpose seems to be to "stalk" certain people and attack them. The most frequent "victim" of this is Lew Waters. Rep Jim Moeller, Mayor Tim Leavitt and Editor Lou also have their "fan clubs." SO, while I can appreciate the desire to maintain a degree of civility, I'm not seeing how this "prove your identity" is helping.

Moving on - the policy exists. Matt tried to contact you, DeeLittle, back in September. Correct? Why no response? I'm not clear on that. And I would hope that after this airing of the issue, you are now confirmed as a REAL PERSON. True? If so, problem solved?

roger — January 10, 2012 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm thinking the game last night was possibly the greatest championship in NCAA history. Possible contender is an old Nebraska/Oklahoma (I forget which year) - pre-BCS but still for #1. USC/Notre Dame? Ohio State/Michigan? Nope.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*HOWEVER, there are several frequent posters there whose sole purpose seems to be to "stalk" certain people and attack them. The most frequent "victim" of this is Lew Waters.*

roger — January 10, 2012 at 5:35 a.m

Roger that remark gave me a good morning laugh...thanks!

Lew Waters stalker..hmm could it be someone from the basement that is double dipping?
I think Lew can handle whomever it is. He seems to be doing just fine!
The others you mentioned, well, I'll leave that up to you to decide..

ELISI — January 10, 2012 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 5:10- I never thought Jimmy would morph into Maude!

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like the Repub Presidential candidates are all imploding - Pres Obama's team must be laughing their collective head off.

Mitt Romney likes firing people. Yeah - placed in context he was referring to a business that doesn't deliver, but that's not what's being put out there.

Santorum is making comments about blacks on welfare - his (alleged) intent is that he doesn't want them, or anyone else, to have to resort to being a dependent of the state - rather, he wants job training, etc. But very few are buying this explanation.

Ron Paul can't stay on topic - every time he speaks, he jumps from point to point to point to.... You have to know what he means to understand him.

Newtie is trying to lay low - maybe he can recover in SC.

Perry is just standing there grinning, and claiming to be the REAL leader of the Tea Party. Yawn.

And Huntsman is talking that there Chineeeez stuff - ain't no way a good Suthern boy gonna vote for him. Or Texan. Or Arizonan. Or Clark County WA Conservative.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Great political analysis! And it's detracting from the current drama at the White House. Romney will make modern political history when he takes NH after winning Iowa. But a good part of the Republican base will continue searching for another candidate! :)))))

I think the mainstream are starting to wake up to the God thing. Conservatives believe Mormonism is a plague on God's people and will continue to vilify him. They won't stop, and if he gets elected they will not only blame the black ex president, but blame the country's woes for electinga cult leader to run our country. Godless! "Ease voodoo magic maun."

A great conversation from this is his work with Bain, and understanding what Capitalism is. It's weird to hear republicans trash capitalism when it suits their needs. Sounds like Bain was well represented in the movie "Wallstreet". Romney a damaged Charlie that stayed off track?

Except with less personality.

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The first in my "Beyond the Pale" series.

**8 killers pardoned: Outgoing Miss. Gov. Haley Barbour under fire
January 10, 2012 | 7:23**

Barbour has said that granting pardons to the convict trusties who work in the mansion is a decades-old state tradition.

Five of the eight killers' victims were either their wives, former wives or girlfriends, according to Clarion-Ledger reporter Jessica Bakeman.

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, nailingit-

after the huge meltdown in the Republican't party, who do you think is going to step in as their savoir?

My guess, McCain. After one failed attempt, he knows the game and would pick a better VP partner.

hawkeye — January 10, 2012 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder why so many people villify or demonize Mormonism but can accept other non mainstream ideologies more easily..A presidents faith means very little to me. What they do on the job is of utmost importance, and if they have had very little prior experience becoming President is not a job for OJT training.. IMO..

vanwadreamer — January 10, 2012 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk- At this point I don't think it's salvageable. Perhaps Episode 2 of...(loud echoing voice)... 'Beyond The Pale' ...will provide insight...:))

Episode 2 **Prophets and Prognosticators"**

October 31, 2009 07:00 AM
Beck's prediction: Sarah Palin positioning herself for third-party run -- and a third party will win in 2012

Bill O'Reilly is "fascinated" with Sarah Palin, and has been featuring segments on her a lot of late. He had Glenn Beck on The O'Reilly Factor on Thursday night to talk about her prospects.

They agreed that her upcoming book tour is a "make or break" situation regarding her political future -- but that if she fares well with the media, she'll be well positioned for 2012. They also agree that resigning as governor before had even completed her first term was a "smart move."

hawk- It's not fair the American populace is being deprived of this information.

Who will win? (to reiterate :)

First up was Antonio Vazquez, who calls himself “the Grand Warlock of Mexico.” He uses tarot cards and observations of the stars. He has concluded that two more Latin American leaders will be diagnosed with cancer (five others have been hit by cancer in recent years) and that the Institutional Revolutionary Party will again rule Mexico after July’s election, having been ousted in 2000.

In 2007, Robertson relayed divine information of a terrorist attack on American soil with millions killed. This didn’t happen, but he had an explanation (of sorts): “So, did I miss it? Possibly. Or, on the other hand, did God avert it? Possibly. But, whatever, it didn’t happen, so I think we can all rejoice.”

“I think He showed me the next president, but I’m not supposed to talk about that so I’ll leave you in the dark-probably just as well-but I think I know who it is going to be,” Robertson said.

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- "...villify or demonize Mormonism but can accept other non mainstream ideologies more easily.."

I have wondered the same. I don't think many on the left or in the middle demonize any religion. Just the infusion of it in our democracy. The Right wing seems to be intolerantly happy with not only portraying one version of God, but using that God for political advantage by enacting right wing social engineering policy in the U.S.

Any other religion, i.e. Mormons, J.W.'s, Muslims, Buddhists, are anathema.

I was extremely young, but didn't "conservatives" have a problem with JFK being Catholic? The "good ol' boys" club don't make too many exceptions.

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I will have to think about your post..The part of left , middle or right , just the infusion into our democracy.. Can you elaborate...
I guess my point is that from what I hear and read being a Mormom almost makes it impossible to be elected President. Not that I'm for Romney, I do like Huntsman, but even he has slipped to obscurity with not much of a campain.. Yes I heard JFK being a catholic was an issue.. Can't figure that out either.. Will have to read up on that too..

Nice word: Anathema.. I learned a new word today.. Thanks:)

vanwadreamer — January 10, 2012 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Read the Washington Post article I linked to yesterday - I think your question is answered there. Mormons say they are Christians, but there are many differences that result in mainstream Christians saying not true.

I guess a comparison is our 3 major religions that worship the same god and prefer to kill each other instead of the nonbelieving infidels/pagans/whatever.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I suppose McCain or Palin may choose to "save the day" - but neither would do better in the general election than the current field. I'm still of the opinion that the RNC doesn't want the people who might be considered serious Repub contenders (Rubio, Christie, Jindal, Jeb Bush, and a few others) to run this year. There is too much of a chance the economy is going to get worse before it improves.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- I think the mindful infusion of religion in any government tends to promote theocracy over democracy. A year or so ago there was much talk/rumors/lies from the right that Obama was leading us down the path of Sharia Law. Of course most people knew that to be bogus but...... I thought it to be quite profound! In a sense it is exactly what the right has been doing for decades, and ferociously enacting laws at state levels since 2010 to achieve. Just substitute Jesus for Mohammed. The Christian right believe that Federal laws concerning abortion and gay rights need to be abolished and should reflect the small % of America's religious right beliefs, in spite of General consensus about these most personal issues. Squash the people when they doth protest and by all means take away any type of collective bargaining to ensure the extreme GOP's wealthy donor base is not only appeased, but also to ensure their longevity.

*Nice word: Anathema.. I learned a new word today.. Thanks:)*

Cool! I love learning new words also. Roger taught me one last week. manthou's been good for a few. Something that's pretty cool about this forum is not only the diversity of ideas that are brought forth, but how they are presented. imho :)

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, I'm guessing your comments being removed is one of a few issues. Your Facebook friends can see your posts, but anyone who's on and NOT a Facebook friend cannot. So that might explain why your comments show up in one place but not another. Also, did you make your comments on ... or Craig Pridemore's Facebook page? If you commented on his page and not, they would still show up there.

Beyond that, would you mind giving me a call to discuss this, since e-mail isn't working? My desk line is 360-735-4559.

Roger, I've never once made the connection between basement posters and Facebook IDs. And looking at real/fictitious names ... there's not any one factor that makes me say "This person isn't legit."

And hawkeye, those aren't the only ways we used to verify IDs. And you should know as well as anyone that just having a Facebook account doesn't mean it's someone's real name. We've talked about this before. :-)

Matt Wastradowski — January 10, 2012 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Moving on - the policy exists. Matt tried to contact you, DeeLittle, back in September. Correct? Why no response? I'm not clear on that. And I would hope that after this airing of the issue, you are now confirmed as a REAL PERSON. True? If so, problem solved?

re sept contact: since huffington bought aol, i've been having connectivity issues. had to spend 1/2 a day just sunday to get the logon to work again. (ever tried to talk to a human about a password lockout @ aol?)

i, too, expected this issue to be resolved, as i certainly DO exist. btw, **MATT**, i've had my aol account before there was an isp. it was basically the only way average people could get on the internet at that time, and i paid for the connection monthly. no firefox, no IE, no 'social media'....just aol. so that would be....14 years, maybe?

as for the "...your comments being removed is one of a few issues" comment, it's beginning to look like 'special treatment' is given to those fb posters who have provoked the ire of the c's friendlies.

DeeLittle — January 10, 2012 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't understand the connection you made there, Dee, between my comment and special treatment.

But would you mind giving me a call so I can ask you a few questions and better understand the nature of your own problems? I don't fully understand the problems you're describing, and I feel I can better help you if we're talking on the phone.

Matt Wastradowski — January 10, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


[Lawmakers accuse Facebook of ducking questions on its privacy practices][1]


DeeLittle — January 10, 2012 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> > manthou- nailingit: Jesus, if he were alive today and wanted to vote, would certainly not register as a Republican :)
> > I agree, and it sounds like he was too smart to register as an independent, too liberal for a Libertarian, so that leaves..:)

nailingit — December 20, 2011 at 2:51 p.m.

> > vanwa- I think the mindful infusion of religion in any government tends to promote theocracy over democracy.

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.

Have you people ever noticed (no, actually I’m pretty sure you haven’t) how often it is that leftists invoke the name of Jesus, as some justification for socialism THROUGH GOVERNMENT … then ridicule the religious Right for their own religious inspired philosophy of government. ?

The Left does not distinguish between public and private.

Voluntary and mandatory.

A society of men and a government of men.

It is entirely possible for one to be generous towards their fellow beings, without using the power of government to force others.

It is entirely possible that some believe that a Zebra is a horse designed by committee. And therefore a thing to be avoided.

It is entirely possible that people voting their own personal interests can be seen as a selfish and envy inspired intrusion into others wealth.

While some may vilify private sector corporations, have you ever considered just what a government entity is. ?

And Oh Gee…every four years or so, someone is predicting the demise of the Democrats, and then the Republicans, and then the…and then….

Roger, I believe it was you once stated that no one has ever walked a mile in someone else’s shoes. There can be no finer statement of political philosophy. I do hope you keep this idea close to your heart. As far as I am concerned…ignoring this idea, tends to cause all sorts of problems in the politics of government and is the best reason why government should be passive, rather than activist.

Mr. Nails: I have seen you attempt to portray the Right as social engineers on some number of occasions. Then again when it comes to the Left: Labor legislation, minimum wage, farm subsidies, progressive tax rates, growth management (that’s a rather interesting one with its high density corridors and attemping to force others into the public transportation thing). And more generally the welfare state payments from taxpayers to individuals.

The most I have ever seen you suggest, is that since Ron Paul is against the legal option of abortion, somehow he’s a “social engineer”. A rather strange way of looking at things. I think.

I must wonder about that old adage…a good defense is a strong offense.

kn_dalai — January 10, 2012 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And then there is that drug thing. About how government making drugs illegal is supposed to be for the public good. But may actually make things worse. As I believe…much worse. It's all about using government for one's own personal beliefs. Now isn't it?

How’s about keeping government out of all kinds of things.

And hows about you stop invoking the name of Jesus to force others into your idea of the proper role of government.

kn_dalai — January 10, 2012 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.

Oh Matt, don't be silly. We've never spoken to each other. ;-)

hawkeye — January 10, 2012 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — January 10, 2012 at 3:55 p.m

"Hows about" .... funny stuff. Especially the part about nailingit ***FORCING*** others to believe him. Again, funny stuff. forcing, shoot, that's just crazy stuff.

Hows about everybody has a right to their own opinion?

hawkeye — January 10, 2012 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Hows about everybody has a right to their own opinion?* ***HAWK***

in order to do that, actually DO that, it's going to require my "don't assume your opponent's motive" issue.

otherwise, it's just another 'us vs. them' mental waste of time.

DeeLittle — January 10, 2012 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 7:51 a.m.

I was thinking Dr. Michio Kaku. The next to last pic.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Roger, I believe it was you once stated that no one has ever walked a mile in someone else’s shoes." -- kn_dalai — January 10, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.

Sorry - I don't think it was me. The way I learned the saying was to not judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. It really doesn't matter who said it.

I am somewhat confused about your overall message. If its that we should keep religion out of government and politics, rather than trying to use it to justify one's side - a hearty amen.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Roger, I've never once made the connection between basement posters and Facebook IDs. And looking at real/fictitious names ... there's not any one factor that makes me say "This person isn't legit." -- Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.

OK. I was just guessing. A common reaction when someone doesn't have a clear picture for why something has happened. You probably noted that I asked DeeLittle for clarification too.

roger — January 10, 2012 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai- Good to see you! How was your Christmas? Man! I just made myself a root beer float (I haven't had one for like...years) and gotta say, it won't be years before the next one.

Where youse been?

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:58 - nailed it! The 20 penny award!

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and btw knd, I disagree with your entire assessments @ 3:54 & 3:55....:) just sayin'. Well perhaps with this exception...

*It is entirely possible for one to be generous towards their fellow beings, without using the power of government to force others.*

Yes knd. It is possible.

But not probable. Given our poverty rate and all.

*"...generous towards their fellow beings..."*

Then why isn't it happening?

American Corporations earned a record breaking 2 TRILLION in profit last year.

Not paying the the Clergy enough?

nailingit — January 10, 2012 at 10:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

romney's two up. hasn't happened since 1976. can't believe people out there want a ron paul enough to give him 2nd place.

listened to romney's was actually good. unfortunately, all those wonderful sounding ideas and encouragement came out of a politician's mouth.

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 1:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This will be my second to the last spam about that book of mine that's been published. Well, that is if'n Matt doesn't boot me out of the basement after this one.

The last one will be an announcement about a book signing at some dive bar here in VanWa (in the distant future). Currently I'm slated to do one in Edmonds at the beginning of next month:

In the publisher's infinite wisdom they are witholding paperback shipping until after the first signing (publishers... sheesh).

Though I'd prefer sales went directly through the publisher, if you'd care to get your hands on a book a little sooner:;=UTF8&qid;=1326287639&sr;=1-1

Now, back to your regularly scheduled political discussion.

Drift — January 11, 2012 at 5:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**America used to frown on slave labor. Now we embrace it.**

American's gripe about unemployment numbers on our I phones. Sad. Let's bring these jobs back to the U.S. At least Americans are only marching in the streets about greedy corporate unfair business practices, not committing mass suicide...not yet. What happened to America the Beautiful, land of the free type stuff.

If corporations insist on being treated as people, shouldn't they show a degree of patriotism? Bring our jobs back!

Of course in the world of "trickle down economics", those on the right would have us receive "trickle down health care" as well. The community well take care of their own!!! (accepted Libertarian fantasy) HA!

**300 Chinese Foxconn Workers 'Threaten Mass Suicide' At XBox Plant, Reports Claim**

Foxconn is an independent, global manufacturing partner to companies including Apple, Microsoft and Sony.

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**In South Carolina, Challenges Await on Ideology and Faith**

But just fending off that attack may not be enough. He is also heading smack into an issue that has followed him through his national political career: his Mormon faith and the suspicion many evangelical Christians have of it.

“It’s going to be difficult for Romney as a Mormon with the evangelical community,” said the Rev. Franklin Graham, son of the Rev. Billy Graham. “For most Christians, Mormonism is an issue and he has a hurdle here that he’s going to have to jump over and navigate around if he can.”

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with your assesment of Romneys speach and how well he did at the debate Sunday morning. I checked out the FB side this morning and there are two posts. Both saying, look at Romney and with his expression can you trust him? I harkened back to what a wise man once told me...Don't judge a book by its cover. From that point on I let the spoken words and actions lead my thoughts of people. I was impressed with Huntsman showing more than Pauls.. My hope is that Huntsman will be in it longer than Paul and that Paul actually throws his support his way to make the race more about issues than rhetoric. It seems when they ask paul a questions he gives 5 different answers but not to the question he was asked. Romney speaches actually contain job creation ideas versus Obamas speaches containing hope and change and finger pointing, He still has not put together any Job growing ideas. It's more like if we do this we can do this and that will get us this .. Like really how can one follow that logic...

vanwadreamer — January 11, 2012 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


obama did what he said he'd do: Hope and Change.
all we have left is Hope we can survive on the Change in our pockets.

romney has too much of that 'annointed' attitude. i liked herman cain. i still like newt. Santorum sounds good, too. but i fear four more years like the last four will permanently cripple the nation, so evicting the current occupant of the white house is the most important consideration. and, unfortunatly, that seems to be romney.

paul can ruin it, of course. a 3rd party run will split the vote and almost guarantee an obama victory.

i'm not going to have to hold my nose quite as tightly when voting since romney actually gave a candidate speech, instead of just fielding questions.

i'm doing exactly what i did four years ago: praying. God's will be done. if that happens, good will come of it.

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

my computer is trying to post it's own ideas now....lemme try this again....

*some*body assassinated a major nuclear scientist in iran.

im' told the cia no longer has the b**ls to run that kind of mission, so it must have been isreal.

any bets....?

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — January 11, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.

I don't see Paul throwing his support to Huntsman - or anyone else - just to build the anti-Romney coalition. After two states, Paul is #2 - and he beat Huntsman in the state where Huntsman basically went "all in." If anything, he would expect Huntsman to back his run. But I'm sure Paul knows he won't win in 2012 - he's building for the future of his movement. Which I presume will soon be headed by Rand Paul.

I doubt anyone can stop Romney now. Combine McCain and Romney votes in South Carolina from the 2008 primary, and they were the majority. Paul will probably take some of these votes, but Romney should get enough to win. The only possibility to stop him, as I see it, is for either Santorum or Newtie to fold and throw support to the other. And it doesn't look like this is happening - both are too caught up in their own role as the voice of real conservatism.

And I'm completely clueless as to what Perry thinks he's going to accomplish by staying in.

roger — January 11, 2012 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**just got unbanned....**

...thanks for your help, matt. feel free to 'unfriend' me anytime you wish :)

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee Little,

re: the killing off of Iranian nuclear scientists.

Der Spiegel has a much more in depth article that I've seen in the US papers. They claim to have an Israeli intelligence source that says Mossad is behind this and a few earlier killings.,1518,777899,00.html

roger — January 11, 2012 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i was listening to an international reporter talking about iran this morning.

she said that the sanctions are really hurting iranians and their opinion of the whole nuclear issue is getting riled.

because of that, iran's leader is *trying* to get attacked. he's baiting the us and isreal into a physical attack so he can reap the rewards of a suddenly united populace.

if i lead isreal, i'd keep doing what i've been doing: hack the research computers, and pick off the scientists. what's their alternative? watching the radiation cloud rise into the air above jerusalem?

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm glad we aren't the only ones wanting to stop these crazy people. Good for Mossad.

hawkeye — January 11, 2012 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*because of that, iran's leader is trying to get attacked. he's baiting the us and isreal into a physical attack so he can reap the rewards of a suddenly united populace*

if Amadinnerjacket, whatever his name is, wants to get attacked, he might wanna listen to the Russians.

According to a high-ranking Russian naval official, the combat potential of a US naval group that has entered the Strait of Hormuz is more powerful than the Iranian Navy and coastal forces in the region.
“The Iranian Navy's combat resources are incomparable with the potential of the US aircraft carrier group that has entered the Strait of Hormuz and are incapable of opposing it. No, certainly no," Deputy Navy Commander Adm. Ivan Kapitanets told Interfax on Thursday.
The aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis and escort ships have entered the area of an Iranian naval exercise east of the Strait of Hormuz.

Kapitanets said the US naval force would “smash” the Iranian coastal installations.
“The Iranian Navy is coastal and can protect the country's interests in the coastal waters. As for the Americans, they have full-scale oceanic naval forces,” the Russian naval commander said. “Therefore, there can be no comparison here. An aircraft carrier with its deck fighters and escort ships can smash Iranian coastal installations and surface ships.”
The Iranian naval commander disagrees.

Seyyed Mahmoud Musavi, the Iranian Navy’s deputy commander for operations, said that the Iranian Navy was ready to confront foreign naval groups that could enter the area of its military exercises, where it is holding maneuvers.

mrd — January 11, 2012 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My son's best friend is on the USS Carl Vinson and his friends brother is on the USS John C. Stennis.

The Stennis was moved out of the Strait of Hormuz about 2 weeks ago. So if the Stennis is being reported there again they have been moved back in.

Have not heard a word from either for over a week now.

ELISI — January 11, 2012 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i believe that 'dinnerjacket' (love that) actually WANTS the damage. it's not the winning he wants, it's the excuse he'll use to fully arm his country.

DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


awhile back, lou postedhis regular column about something, i don't remember what, but in the comments i said i was very wary of fb because one of the FIRST things i saw after obama's election were all these gvt ads for 'social network engineers'. lou subsequently made a sly 'tin foil hat' reference to it.

wellllll....wonder whathe'll say now...?

[Homeland Security Is Monitoring The Drudge Report, The New York Times][1]


DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Newt Gingrich's Campaign Cuts Web Video Of Mitt Romney's Gaffes**

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Warren Buffett Ready to Take Republicans’ Tax Challenge**

Put up or shut up!

Read more:

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is it possible that Gov Perry is a closet Occupyer who is now coming out? His analysis of Romney's performance at Bain continued today in South Carolina.

"On Wednesday, he repeated the phrase "vulture capitalism" during appearances in South Carolina, and attacked "the idea that you come in and destroy people's lives, the idea that you come in just to make a quick profit tear these companies apart."

roger — January 11, 2012 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit (and anyone else),

Are you aware of Wolfgang's Vault? If not, check it out. Lots of good concerts and other recordings you won't find elsewhere. (Wolfgang is Bill Graham - they started with his archives and expanded.) A word of caution - if you get interested and register with them, expect 3-4 e-mails per week.

roger — January 11, 2012 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Good for Mossad." -- hawkeye — January 11, 2012 at 3:23 p.m.

I was surprised to see them so active again - they pretty much went undercover in the 90's, due to pressure from us (as part of one of our unsuccessful attempts to get the two sides together.) Wikipedia runs a timeline of hits, etc, attributed to them. If what they show is even close to being accurate, Netanyahu no longer feels constrained by what we want - especially in the Gaza.

roger — January 11, 2012 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**agree....disagree...?** i agree. totally.

[Obama brought 'Chicago Way' to D.C. and you're surprised?][1]


DeeLittle — January 11, 2012 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the vault link roger. Lots and lots of good stuff.

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*i believe that 'dinnerjacket' (love that) actually WANTS the damage. it's not the winning he wants, it's the excuse he'll use to fully arm his country*

the goofball can use any line of BS he finds applicable. Let him arm up. If he thinks his antiquated air force and a few speedboats, like pirates use, can somehow take on a naval task force with a few REAL subs, escorts, a carrier, etc, he should go for it. In an hour or so Iran couldn't load a barrel of oil or launch any meaningful strike. Although carriers don't carry the big stealth bombers, I'm sure a few would show up, between cruise missles to remind him he's sunk-literally. But I guess expending a few, limited resources is OK if it gets the population behind him. And when he's still in power, he can claim victory. Where do these clowns come from, anyway? Might get him a blessing from the local ayotollah, inman, or the local tarot card reader. And his "people" follow this guy? Sheez, ain't that sumpthin....

mrd — January 11, 2012 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — January 11, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.

And if we do "dump" on him and his--- it will all be Obama's fault at least that's the way the GOP will spin it.

hawkeye — January 11, 2012 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 5:57 p.m

Ya gotta love Warren Buffett

hawkeye — January 11, 2012 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"nailingit — January 11, 2012 at 5:57 p.m. Ya gotta love Warren Buffett" -- hawkeye — January 11, 2012 at 9:44 p.m.

Interesting that this is what they're talking about on the 2nd hour of Morning Joe today (4-5 AM our time). The question being asked is once you tax the rich - what next? Buffett wants more education, job training, etc. A counterargument is that the jobs remaining in this country are geared more and more for the intelligent - that there just aren't the jobs out there for people of normal, or less than, intelligence to train into.

They point at the growing poverty rate - in 2010 there were 46 MILLION poor in this country. And much of the growth is coming from the former middle class - now labeled the New Poor. And they say the politicians from both parties have for the most part written these people off - they're busying pandering to the monied elite because that's how you get elected/reelected. That very few are focusing on how to address the growing poverty rate. Someone noted that the last time this mattered in DC was 46 years ago (I presume LBJ's Great Society).

They also note that there's a growing discontent on both sides - liberal and Christian conservative - over this lack of concern for the overall welfare of people. Whether this will turn into anything remains to be seen.

AND THEY NEED TO STRING THESE CAPTCHA FOLKS UP!!! Some smarmy jerks are sitting somewhere trying to outdo each other with making up the most tricky and unreadable strings of letters they can. It's becoming increasingly difficult to decipher - I'm having to refresh several times and then just take a chance. This isn't about fooling spamming computers - it's about fooling us.

roger — January 12, 2012 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 522- HP addresses this on their front page today.

Class Conflict Awareness Rose Significantly From 2009 To 2011: Report

Republicans see class conflict less than Democrats and independents. GOP leaders have dismissed calls to raise taxes on the wealthy, calling it "class warfare." Still, 55 percent of Republicans see "strong" or "very strong" class conflicts in comparison to 73 percent of Democrats and 68 percent of independents.

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Given Republican's comparatively low numbers in the referenced article, GOP is mixing tea with kool-aid, and adding waaaay too much sugar.

I'm sure Fox news will sort it out for their viewers. :)

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In other news, Daimler Trucks NA is going to add 1100 jobs to it's Freightliner plant in Cleveland, North Carolina and 100 jobs to it's Parts Plant in Gastonia, NC. This is great news because these are jobs that **aren't** going to Mexico.

hawkeye — January 12, 2012 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ahh yes,knew it would happen.. seems you can't get a rise out of anyone about the GOP anymore, since everyone has learned your game.. so now it's back to tossing the "Fox News" grenade. How about some Nazi slurs and other cliches about the GOP. Come on, we're waiting!

ELISI — January 12, 2012 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And a top of the morning to you "ELISI". To reiterate some info that is truly golden!

**Fox News Viewers Know Less Than People Who Don't Watch Any News: Study**

This isn't the first study that has found that Fox News viewers more misinformed in comparison to others. Last year, a study from the University of Maryland found that Fox News viewers were more likely to believe false information about politics.

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**3 billionaires who'll drag out the race**

The prospect that these candidates could carry on is a testament to the new world of campaign money ushered in by a pair of federal court rulings in 2010: A single wealthy donor can now prop up a presidential campaign with unlimited cash, even if the candidate is getting little traction with voters.

Read more:

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If you are wondering where the USS Carl Vinson, John Stennis, and
the Abraham Lincoln are check out..the article is at the bottom.

ELISI — January 12, 2012 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- Sounds like the economy in many areas is picking up. These jobs aren't being farmed out overseas because of the unions. This is one reason right wants to bust them up. I thought I would post a link.

Since then, the plant has seen a steady recovery and now employs about 1,500 people, said Corey Hill, president of UAW local 3520. Hill and other union officials had also hoped the expansion at the Cleveland plant would mean more jobs at Gastonia.

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 9:49 a.m

Funny how the article didn't mention the HUGE plant they own in Mexico.

Another funny thing about the Cleveland plant. When it was built, Daimler (being a German company) asked the UAW to come in to represent the workers. It puts a buffer between them and the company and allows the company to deal with only one entity instead of negotiating with workers separately.

hawkeye — January 12, 2012 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk- Are you saying a multi-billion dollar international company prefers to do business with Unions to not? Say it ain't so!

Great info and take. Gracias

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The X-ray and the tomography showed a strange object stuck between the superior and inferior jawbones.
Then they realized—it wasn't a stone, it was a live grenade.
The hospital was put on alert because the deadly explosive could go off at any moment and kill everyone within 32 feet.

Read more:

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

CRC foes of all stripes share concerns,
I know there is a seperate section for the bridge topic but I found the story just printed on the C a bit odd. Why didn't these folks announce there was going to be this meeting held outside and why didn't they bring data to support the cause. Like how would having light rail dirty the air more than gas guzzling busses.. Not sure if they have many natural gas busses.. Then the only Vancouver person was Ms Couch..Forensic Scientist. She claims she has found "issues" but when pressed she has never produced those issues..Is this the best they could do?? Just a question..Where was Madore??

vanwadreamer — January 12, 2012 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There's also a separate section for politics - which is mainly what we discuss here.

This was a poorly advertised meeting. It was reportedly sponsored by the thirdbridgenow group, which past articles say is heavily Madore supported. Lew Waters says he just learned by reading the thirdbridge website yesterday.

David Madore made the statement a few months ago that Tiffany Couch's forensic check of the CRC turned up info that indicated criminal involvement. What this info is was supposed to be forthcoming; we've yet to see anything. I've commented a couple of times that I think alleging criminal involvement ought to result in a check by The Columbian, but we haven't seen this either.

The dirty air, etc, is from the Portland groups opposed to the project. From what I've read, they don't blame light rail. Their concern is that speeding the traffic flow across the bridge and through Delta Park will cause a bigger, longer backup further down toward the Rose Quarter. And there have been votes south of the river in the past saying no expansion of the I5 through Portland, so it'll be interesting to see how this is resolved.

There's a post to the article you read, from Jack Burkman, saying the requirement for tolling comes from Mayor Adams. That's a new one on me. The old historical documents, which one used to be able to access fairly easily on the CRC website until about a year ago, said that Portland didn't want the bridge - that the only way they'd go along with us was if light rail was part of the package. Which is why it's become a requirement. Earlier documents said the Feds required some sort of rapid transit to get their funding - as DeeLittle notes on the facebook side, BRT would have met this requirement. Senator Murray reportedly came on board later in the game and insisted on light rail. Whether part of Pres Obama's rail program or other isn't clear (to me). But she chairs the Transportation committee that's supposed to provide their $800 million share, so....

As far as I can tell, there still isn't an "official" requirement for tolling (except from the CRC and verbal from Gov Gregoire), though it's a done deal. They can't build the bridge without it, and it's been planned on since at least 2007. Mayor Pollard ran on low tolls; I believe because he saw the disproportionate impact on us. Tim Leavitt jumped on the No Tolls bandwagon, which earned him his victory. And he then said "Oops - Sorry, I didn't know, I was wrong." Which was total BS - his name is all over planning documents from before the election. This is a major reason why Lew Waters and others treat him such disdain.

roger — January 12, 2012 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Rachel Maddow Plays Game Comparing 2012 GOP Race To 2008 (VIDEO)**

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Evening, all: Has anyone read Jack Abramoff's "Capitol Punishment" yet? Seen any of his interviews? I guess I was a lot more naive than I thought, but I was fairly shocked at how corrupt the lobbyist/legislator pairings are.

Speaking of lobbyists: The Patriot Millionaires are exposing the Chamber of Commerce as the highest spending lobby in the US. Not for small business:

manthou — January 12, 2012 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- This is really weird. My wife and I just got done watching 'Casino Jack' with Kevin Spacey! Good flick and speaks to point. Got on the forum and saw your post! I saw Abramoff do a couple of interviews awhile ago. I thought "Casino Jack" was fairly flattering to him. Again how weird we just watched it.

nailingit — January 12, 2012 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

According to a telephone survey conducted Tuesday by the website Poll Position, 43.3 percent of people believe Tebow's accomplishments on the field can be attributed to divine intervention.

The poll surveyed 1,056 people, and of the 756 who said they were familiar with Tebow, roughly 327 of them said they believe God plays a role in the second-year NFL quarterback's success.

*Well there you have it, God loves football and Tim Tebow*, maybe this weekend we will see if he loves the Patriots more.

hawkeye — January 12, 2012 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


while researching something else, i came across pdf files on the columbian site where given up by the crc as a result of a foia filing (not sure but i think the filing came from the c).

they're billings paid by the crc to 'vendors'. like 1st class plane tickets for consultants and TONS of multiple-consultant meetings, each consultant at the meeting billing his/her time at over $350/hr. and i only looked at the files for about 10 minutes. there are a lot of them.

my guess is the c's digging into the story.

DeeLittle — January 12, 2012 at 11:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If there are any working stiffs out there that like the GOP frontrunner, Mitt Romney, they might want to re-think that. He states that the issue of income disparity in this country is nothing but envy. Then he attacks Obama for raising the question of disparity. Politically, a shot at Obama is called for, I guess, but Romney denying that income disparity is a problem should worry most, except millionaires. If your rich, Mitt's your guy. And if you think helping the rich is what makes things go, trickle down, if you will, guess again.

When running Bain, his purpose was to do whatever necessary to get a corporation to maximize returns to investors and stockholders. If that meant shuttering factories, selling off assets, destroying jobs, whatever, the returns of the investors were all that mattered. Wall St must love this guy. Why working folks would vote for a guy destined to kick us both curbs is beyond me.

With both major parties dangling from big donor's purse strings, this guy is even more deadly to working folks than is Obama. At least we're getting lip service from him.

mrd — January 13, 2012 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**John Boehner May Rebuff Tea Party In Upcoming Payroll Tax Cut Fight**

"I think Boehner will seek a more accommodating approach to get a good percentage of Democrats to vote for it - even if it costs him a lot of House Republican freshmen," one House Republican leadership aide told Reuters.

"His instincts will be not to be so reliant on House Republican freshmen," the aide added, referring to the 85 first-term congressmen.

nailingit — January 13, 2012 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I keep seeing a claim on the facebook side that the electronic tolling structures will be at on-ramps on the Washington side, and that this will result in most tolls being paid by us. A man named Winslow says this in the article about the meeting we were talking about. Seeing as how you're posting there, would you kindly ask where this is coming from? As near as I can find, none of the ever-changing project maps show proposed locations for them. Makes one wonder.

They keep revamping the CRC website and moving documents around. Now there's a new one, with a library containing the "most popular" from the old one. There used to be a document there showing Portland's plan for future traffic upgrades to the I5 corridor. (One of those 20 or 30 year plans - seems everyone has one!) The CRC has also moved the SR500 interchange from the current plan to a future one. I'm betting that once the tolling starts it'll be permanent. And I think I also saw the pdf files you reference somewhere - the ones I saw are poorly labeled and you don't know what you'll see until opening it. I saw a lot of billing, and it seems a common practice is to come back with supplemental requests.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 7:47 a.m.,

From the article you linked to:

"Freshman Republican Representative Jeff Landry, a Tea Party favorite, said that while he favors cutting workers' taxes, the payroll tax cut is "a terrible idea" because it taps revenues that are supposed to be dedicated to Social Security."

This is what I've been saying. Wonder if that means I should send in my 5 cereal boxtops and get my Tea Party membership card?

Speaker Boehner says there's room for a compromise. Want to bet Keystone XL is what he has in mind?

roger — January 13, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- "Want to bet Keystone XL is what he has in mind?"

Most likely. I've got a feeling Obama won't be in a compromising mood. The Dems have the upper hand in tax negotiations, It would be a political mistake for Obama for compromise on middle class tax breaks.

Keystone will be put on the back burner till after 012 election. Obama's learned the carrot/stick approach the right uses to negotiate. Tie the carrot/stick together and shove it!

nailingit — January 13, 2012 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We (Wash state) made #8 on someone's list of the 10 states with the hardest time paying their bills. The article references lack of funding and cuts for the people programs.|main5|dl12|sec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D127154#photo-3

roger — January 13, 2012 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Keystone will be put on the back burner till after 012 election."

This take ignores that the 2 month extension that passed requires Pres Obama to give his answer on Keystone XL within 60 days (of passage of the extension - answer due in mid/late February).

If Pres Obama elects to ignore this Congressional requirement, then Speaker Boehner is obligated to raise a stink. Big Oil (and reportedly a few of the larger unions) won't allow silence.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Speaker Boehner is obligated to raise a stink...'no one has created a bigger stink than Boehner for the last three years. The public understands this since the last round of Republican negotiations.

His answer? More time to study. Let Big oil raise a stink. Remind the people of BP and how the consequences of cutting corners can produce devastating results. Nothing the oil industry is unfamiliar with. :)

nailingit — January 13, 2012 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tim LaHaye, 'Left Behind' Author, Endorses Gingrich, Says Jerry Falwell Backs Newt From Grave

The former House speaker was endorsed by evangelical author and pastor Tim LaHaye, who is best-known for writing a series of books called the "Left Behind" series, an apocalyptic vision of what some Christians believe will happen when true believers in Jesus Christ experience the "rapture" to heaven and nonbelievers are left behind for a period of "tribulation."

The 16 "Left Behind" **books have reportedly sold 65 million copies** and have been turned into three movies and three video games.

nailingit — January 13, 2012 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Well who wins South Carolina and why?" -- Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 6, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.

Wondering if there's a follow up to this question.

AND I've got still another Captcha complaint. I had just figured one out and was getting ready to type - and it changed on me. The Columbian's rules on civility, name calling, etc, should not apply to the sadists who run that program.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Wondering if there's a follow up to this question." roger- I was thinking the same thing.

I'm sure he's busy, but if he popped his head in more often it'd be kinda nice.

If we had a little more continuity in the basement we could do an office pool type thing. :)

It's a week from tomorrow and I'll reserve judgement till next thursday or Friday. With Colbert as the current "wild card" polling at 5%...{:))...the circus is more than nuanced. It's great the conversation about capitalism is front and center. I believe many think of only the upsides to it (the American way!) and not the down. Corporations and right wing media would have us believe it's Un-american to question the obvious downsides of a "free market". And of tax code and wealth disparity? Only the ordained and elite in private enclosures may speak of such matters!

Obama's been tagged with "elitist" since he started running for office. What the hell should we call Romney? ....... Born This Way?

nailingit — January 13, 2012 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The lawsuit to force Virginia to add Santorum, Newtie, Huntsman and Perry to the ballot for their March 6 primary was thrown out. That leaves them with Paul vs. Romney. I wonder if the rest of the clown show will still be playing by then?

roger — January 13, 2012 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So much for Christian brotherly love. An email recently sent by Kansas House Speaker Mike O'Neal to his Republican colleagues appears to endorse a controversial prayer that some say calls for the untimely death of President Obama. (Apostle Peter quoted this verse, before the apostles elected the replacement for Judas Iscariot in Acts 1:16-26.)

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8." That's the slogan an email from O'Neal refers to, a phrase that's become popular in some circles on bumper stickers and other merchandise. The bible passage itself reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." The real controversy arises in the next verse of Psalm 109, however, which continues, "May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow."

In a message accompanying the email, O'Neal writes: "At last -- I can honestly voice a Biblical prayer for our president! Look it up -- it is word for word! Let us all bow our heads and pray. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN? AMEN!!!!!!"

One of these days I'd like to see a dialog as to whether these mainly conservative Protestant churches should be allowed to call themselves Christians. They keep going back to the terrible God of the Old Testament for their moral guidance. Jesus was about forgiveness, love for his fellow man, etc. A message that even the African slaves understood when converting to Christianity - they prayed for the White man, when it would have been perfectly understandable for their religious leaders to preach vengeance.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No phony mourning allowed in North Korea!|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D127414

It seems if you weren't considered sorrowful enough during the public mourning sessions for Kim Jong Il, you get to spend 6 months in a labor camp. I'm not sure who determines this and how, but I'm betting the gentleman at the lower front of the pic in the attached article is a candidate.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Alas - Mr. Colbert can't be voted for in the South Carolina Repub primary.

"Even though one poll showed Colbert ahead of former Utah governor Jon Huntsman, South Carolina GOP Chair Chad Connelly told The Huffington Post on Friday that Colbert has no chance of winning:

"He doesn't have any chance of winning down here since you can't write in anybody...and look, maybe some of his audience will watch some of our candidates and learn they're better than Obama and we get some votes out of it."

I sure hope Stewart and Colbert have picked up on this. Ought to be good for a few laughs.

roger — January 13, 2012 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The ten most hated companies in the US

1. Facebook (surprise)
2. American Airlines
3. AT&T;
4. Nokia
5. Goldman Sachs
6. Best Buy
7. Bank of America
8. Johnson & Johnson
9. Sears
10. Netflix

hawkeye — January 13, 2012 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- yesterday @ 2:22 - *They keep going back to the terrible God of the Old Testament for their moral guidance.*

Spot on observations with your entire post roger. There is a hateful/intolerant "spirit" coursing itself through today's churches as never before. It feeds on the "I'm right and you're wrong" thought in today's society and politics in particular. The high minded thought that unless you profess Christianity as your baseline, you are inherently wrong, or your vision of truth is clouded. Instead of reaching out to those who they consider "lost" or in need of salvation, today's neo-conservative political Christians vilify and condemn. A few on this forum personify/validate this!

There was a reason Jesus exhorted his followers, that while being in this world, not to be a part of it. Today's evangelical Christians seek to divide and conquer, rather than unite and pray. It's a different Christian movement today than what it was a few decades ago.

I think right wing media has played heavily into mixing Christianity with the politics of intolerance. Rush, Hannity, O'Rielly, Beck...the infusion becomes an intrusion.

Some of greatest people I have met in life, and many that I have befriended and have had cherished relationships are/were devout Christians or Mormons.

It's the infusion into our everyday lives, politics of destruction brought to bear from disgruntled overreaching "Christians" that have most certainly lost their way. Worshiping a Christ whose politics crush the poor and disadvantaged, leaving the message of Jesus to be trampled on by "non-believers".

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Social Welfare State, American-Style, Means Relief For The Rich**

The two biggest tax breaks with a social welfare purpose are the exemptions for employer-sponsored health benefits (which cost the U.S. Treasury about $184 billion a year in foregone revenue) and for contributions to 401(k) and other retirement plans and pensions ($113 billion).

In stark contrast to social programs that involve the actual outlay of tax dollars, the tax breaks vastly favor the rich over the middle class and the poor. The biggest benefits accrue to people who can afford to put a lot away for their retirements and have generous health insurance plans.

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**South Carolina Primary 2012: Mike Huckabee Hosting Forum For Republican Candidates**


"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it’s a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And thats what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards rather than trying to change God’s standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family." Mike Hucka(what in the bejesus?)bee. Jan. 08'

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Editor Lou's Press Talk article is interesting and irritating at the same time. "Where do we go from here?" As pertains to what?

Yes - I would agree with paying for an on-line subscription. But I would expect something in return. Specifically, I'd like to see local affairs covered in a more detailed, less biased manner. That requires investigative reporting - something that seems to be lacking. Just printing releases isn't enough. For example, we were recently told a problem with attracting light industry here (over Portland) is because our processes take a year and a half, while P'Town has an expedited 6 month one. Good to know. Now where are the hold ups? What levels of government require them? There was a reference to residential developers - are they part of the problem? To be frank, you've got too many reporters wanting to write opinion pieces more suited to the editorial side of the operation. (All Politics is Local comes to mind.)

You've said yourself - you can't compete with timeliness when covering national and international news. But you can write editorials. We see plenty when it comes to the CRC, C-Tran, and the local politicians. What about matters of national importance? For example, Keystone XL is (in my opinion) big - it appears to be the major battleground between business enterprise and environmental concerns. And I'll bet you coffee and doughnuts that more people around here are knowledgeable of the debate over building the BPA power lines over in the forest (where no one lives) than they are about Keystone XL.

In closing, Libby and you have a brief discussion over facebook - the conclusion being that news shouldn't be reported like information is shared over that medium. Might I add that there's also little value to gain from reading the average facebook post? LOL, Luv Ya Lou!!, and all the goofy keyboard faces; everyone accusing everyone else of being a troll; the same redundant entries that are cut/pasted from someone's stored Word documents; etc.

In closing - a comment to Ms. Kortes. It could have been worse - Lou could have given us a Blood Sweat & Tears tune to listen to. Or that nauseating White Bird song. But Lou - you were in Florida in the late 60's/early 70's - correct? I hope you took the time to listen to all the good Southern and Texas bands that were out then. Delaney and Bonnie, The Band, and Marshall Tucker on the "softer" side, and a whole lot of some of the best butt kicking rock and roll ever released.

roger — January 14, 2012 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.,

The Constitution is SUPPOSED to be updated - hence the Amendments. And the at times specificity, at times vagueness of the main document suggests room for interpretation there too. They had to compromise to get it accepted as a replacement for the Articles - and this occasionally meant letting different regions place different meanings on the document.

As for Huckabee - What Bible does he want us to use? There is only one version of the Jewish Tanach (Bible). There are many versions of the Christian Bible. And then there were all the books that didn't get included, and all the offshoots like the Mormons and the various Orthodox churches. And depending on who you choose to believe, there are anywhere from 6 to 20 versions of the Koran. So Mr. Huckabee, just where do I go to learn the Word of the Living God?

roger — January 14, 2012 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And thats what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards*

roger- My post speaks to the motives on the right. If mainstream Christianity had all the power they would convert our government into a theocracy rather than a democracy. Some updates would be downdates.

*So Mr. Huckabee, just where do I go to learn the Word of the Living God?*

I have been chosen to speak for the huckster by the P.F.C.S.V.I (People For Common Sense Versus Idiocy) and he would direct you to the King James version of the Bible. Fundamental Christian teachings are riddled admonishments and rebukes if a follower considers another religion. i.e. Islam, Hinduism etc. You can't even let them in your front door!

Galatians 1:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
[8]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

[9]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

and...2 John 1:9-11
King James Version (KJV)
[9]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

[10]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

[11]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Seems a little hard line for me...then again I can't walk on water.

So we are left with a choice. Follow new testament theology, or be cursed.

I remember another curse that has been afflicted upon mankind. A curse that is so horrid and devoid of morals and civility, it wreaks with the depravity and injustices we see today.....

*“Even a man who is pure of heart,
and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms,
and the autumn moon is bright.”*

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 14, 2012 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


But is that the King James Version of the Protestant Reformation, or the New King James Version, updated for readability?

Why doesn't he require the Living Word Bible? This would make sense if we're concerned with preserving "the word of the living God."

And what are the Catholics to say? The Douay-Rheims is the translation upon which nearly all English Catholic Bible versions are based.

I am so confused. Allow me to call my old friend Charles Barkley - I think he knows Tim T-Bone. Maybe I can get some guidance from that direction.

roger — January 14, 2012 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


if you believe God exists, then the text you read enlightens you. as a catholic, i let the priest-scholars who've spent their lifetimes learning old languages advise me on translations. others do the same, but with different experts. sincere men can disagree.

the basics, no christian debates. 1)there is a God. 2)His son was Jesus. 3)Jesus died on a cross to pay for our sins, so we could be reunited with God.

simple, really.

DeeLittle — January 14, 2012 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- *Allow me to call my old friend Charles Barkley - I think he knows Tim T-Bone. Maybe I can get some guidance from that direction.*

After tonight, Tebow won't know his ups from his downs. Quite a shellacking!

My Chargers would have played them close if not won. ifa coulda shoulda :(

Patriots looked and played with SuperBowl or bust focus tonight.

nailingit — January 14, 2012 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obama Recess Appointments: Justice Department Says They Are Constitutional**

nailingit — January 15, 2012 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Apple's not happy enough farming jobs to China. They screw the workers over there also.

Some of you on the right want to get rid of unions. This is our future.

Unions are about the only entity to act as a buffer between corporate greed and working Americans.

**Apple Supplier List Revealed: Audit Uncovers Environmental Violations In Supply Chain**

The audit found a number of violations, among them **breaches in pay, benefits** and environmental practices in plants in China, which figured prominently throughout the 500-page report Apple issued. Other violations found in the audit included dumping wastewater onto a neighboring farm, **using machines without safeguards, testing workers for pregnancy and falsifying pay records.**

nailingit — January 15, 2012 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John Laird's column this morning: Excellent points!

I never was one who saw "flip flopping" in a negative light. One would hope that an open mind is changed by new information and research.

Such is the history of those who have grown to support gay marriage. The wave has reached critical mass, as Laird so aptly indicates. There is no going back. I look forward to the day when Washington joins the other states that have legalized gay marriage.

manthou — January 15, 2012 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Not much happening anymore on the spin off Forum you suggested: Downtown development. Shame, really. It just must be too hard for people to for through all the old Forum archives to get to it.

C Staff: is it possible to sort the spin off Forums more closer to the top? Might bring in more traffic.

Anyway, Cami Joner did a really good job on the Holland Partners story today. This company is focusing on residential development near light rail lines marketed toward the young tenant.

Anyone interested in discussing this, try to find the Downtown Development forum and join me there. :)

manthou — January 15, 2012 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian has an excellent article on the Columbia River Crossing/I5 Bridge replacement project today. Kudos to Andrea and Eric for a very informative and (to me) unbiased product.

(Note to Editor Lou - This is the kind of reporting I would gladly pay for an on-line subscription to receive.)

Hopefully we'll see further analysis of the attachments. Specifically --

The Statement of Work, which I took to be an updated one produced by David Evans and Associates in 2008 after the original 2005 one had lapsed. I was initially wondering why the Contractor was producing the SOW - my (limited) experience is that this should have been generated by the party issuing the contract. As I got to reading it, something else struck me. Almost EVERYTHING we have seen put out by the CRC and the two states has been prepared by the Contractor. I'm thinking David Evans and Associates is the CRC - which would mean anything we're getting from that direction is slanted to support their planning. Another thing (addressed in the article) is that this second SOW ran through 2009, and we didn't see some of the required products until much later. Cost overruns and supplemental billing are built into the SOW, but nothing covers failure to produce on time. Still another thing that I noticed was that a majority of the work Evans subcontracted out went to Portland and Seattle firms. Is it a safe assumption that there's no one in Vancouver/Clark County qualified to do the work needed? Or is there something else at play with this? Finally, and this may be a misinterpretation caused by brain overload, but I think I read this was a no-bid contract.

Reference the independent review, whose findings I presume led to the recent design change. There's another finding of theirs - that there's a significant safety concern due to the number of interchanges that fail to meet the federal standard of a mile between each one. That while this isn't entirely unusual, having seven failing to meet this in a five mile stretch is unprecedented.

roger — January 15, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rick Santorum on FOX News discussing the need to have more children - he wants to triple the deduction for them. OK. Then he mentions the European demographic winter.

Sounds to me like he's read Pat Buchanan's The Death of the West, subtitled How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization.

roger — January 15, 2012 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Stephen Colbert SuperPAC has released their first TV ad in South Carolina - directed at Mitt Romney.

If corporations are people, then Mitt Romney is a serial killer.

Ouch. This might be comedy, but I'll bet Romney & team aren't laughing.

roger — January 15, 2012 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As an AFC fan (ever since my Steelers were placed in that conference) I'm enjoying this weekend's games. The two consistently best NFC teams have been sent home. I'm ready to declare that the winner of Ravens vs. Patriots (probably the Pats) will also take the Super Bowl.

roger — January 15, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"the basics, no christian debates. 1)there is a God. 2)His son was Jesus. 3)Jesus died on a cross to pay for our sins, so we could be reunited with God. simple, really." -- DeeLittle — January 14, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.

DeeLittle - with all respect, this is based mainly on the preaching of Paul (who was not a Disciple) as related in writings that are from 200-300 years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth. Historical accounts suggest he was actually a Jewish rabbi who became a disciple of John the Baptist - a major figure in the movement that believed God would deliver a messiah who would lead them against the Romans and restore the homeland to Jewish control. John was killed by the Romans for this. Jesus of Nazareth began his own movement after the death of John, and assimilated many of his followers. A few years later Pontius Pilate had the Roman soldiers execute him (the crucifixion) because he was seen as a revolutionary who was attempting to overturn the political order of the day. There's also literature that suggests the Resurrection grew out of a similar belief that John's followers held about him.

I don't discount the message that Christianity delivers - one of love and caring for one's fellow man. And the Ten Commandments of the Jewish religion are as good a basis as any for the rules of our social order. Personally, I think the Unitarians are closer to the truth of the matter, though - that God is a monotheistic god, and that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet, not part of God himself.

But this whole discussion sidetracks from the real issue that we're facing today - the apparent belief of the evangelical movement to declare their views to be the correct interpretation of the Christian religion, and that this supersedes The Constitution and laws of this country. Personally, if presented with a choice between the intolerance of the atheists and that of the evangelicals - I'll side with the atheists.

roger — January 15, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


good summary of the crc/evans issue. couldn't agree more.

as for ne....juuust waituntilNEXTyear, buddy

DeeLittle — January 15, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jon M. Huntsman Jr. Says He Is Quitting G.O.P. Race

Jon M. Huntsman Jr. informed his advisers on Sunday that he intends to drop out of the Republican presidential race, ending his candidacy a week before he had hoped to revive his campaign in the South Carolina primary.

***And another one bites the dust,
and another one gone,
and another one gone
another one bites the dust***

hawkeye — January 15, 2012 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Obama's done it this time! Looks like he ticked off Emperor Palpatine.

**Rupert Murdoch Attacks Google, Obama In Pro-SOPA Twitter Rant**

Murdoch has lobbied aggressively for the bills, which many critics call web censorship. On Saturday, the White House announced that it would not support the legislation.;=Politics

nailingit — January 15, 2012 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


intolerance is the same beast, no matter what label it wears. why don't we try instead to allow christians to be christian, atheists to be non-believers, homosexuals to not demand everyone support their lifestyle and just try to live without reverting to mobs.

DeeLittle — January 16, 2012 at 3:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle: What do you mean by this statement: "homosexuals to not demand everyone support their lifestyle and just try to live without reverting to mobs."

Seems pretty intolerant and judgmental to me, but I could be misinterpreting a poorly-penned sentence.

Help me understand.

manthou — January 16, 2012 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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