Open forum, July 2 - 8



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"..through the use of sarcasm..." danabwoodley — July 1, 2012 at 9:10 p.m.

OK, I've re-read all your posts; Maybe you better repost them with bolding in the sarcastic parts.

Oh, wait, maybe this part---

"can be allowed so longs as deemed necessary for a womans health, not because you want to have sex and not concieve."

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Some Outrageous Facts about Inequality
by Paul Buchheit

5.. Our society allows one man or one family to possess enough money to feed EVERY hungry person on earth.

The United Nations estimates that $30 billion is needed to eradicate hunger. Several individuals have more than this amount in personal wealth.

There are 925 million people in the world with insufficient food. According to the World Food Program, it takes about $100 a year to feed a human being. That's $92 billion, about equal to the fortune of the six Wal-Mart heirs.

One Final Outrage...

In 2007 a hedge fund manager (John Paulson) conspired with a financial company (Goldman Sachs) to create packages of risky subprime mortgages, so that in anticipation of a housing crash he could use other people's money to bet against his personally designed sure-to-fail financial instruments. His successful gamble paid him $3.7 billion. Three years later he made another $5 billion, which in the real world would have been enough to pay the salaries of 100,000 health care workers.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This Is Not America

Over the past few days, Henry Blodget at Business Insider posted a number of graphs, here and here, which depict something about the US economy that everybody knows to some extent or another, but that most of us won't have let thoroughly sink in. For some because the consequences are too opaque, for others because they are too scary. But make no mistake: we can only continue to ignore or misinterpret them at our own peril. And even then it's terribly late in the game.

The essence of Blodget's argument is this:

"... over the past 30 years, we've generated about $1 of economic growth for every $3 we've borrowed."

So while real (inflation-adjusted) GDP growth looks sort of strong over the past 6 decades:

... the growth in debt rises much faster.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Okay, Folks, Let's Put Aside Politics And Look At The Facts...**
Henry Blodget

See Also

OBAMA vs ROMNEY: Here's Who's Right About The Economy

DEAR AMERICA: You Should Be Mad As Hell About This [CHARTS]

The "American Dream" Is Now A Myth

The most important issue in this year's election is the economy.
Unfortunately, this topic has now been "politicized," which means that you can't talk about it without being instantly cheered or jeered by fans of each respective political team.
But the economy is much more important than this year's election or either political team.
And both teams are responsible for the mess we're in--and so, I am sorry to say, are the rest of us.
And fixing that mess is going to take decades, regardless of who's in power.
But we have to fix it. Or we're going to become a nation of a few million landed aristocrats and 300 million serfs.
The first step is getting past the political blame-game and understanding what's wrong.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 8:10 a.m

Excellent chart work! What really sticks out to me, among others, is the disparity between corporate profits and wage declination. Absolute greed comes to mind. Apple is a prime example of wanting it all at the expense of the American worker, as well as the disregard for every human being just wanting to make a fair wage. My wife and I have been staunch Apple/Mac users for a couple of decades. Our next PC purchases, as hard as it is (gulp!) will not be Apple. We love the product, but Apple has become 'rotten to the core'.

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**GOP Line About 'Largest Tax Increase In American History' Fails Fact Check**

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.

Huffington post fact checking? Now, that is Hilarious.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If you truly don't want a response from me, don't post directed at me.

frobert — June 29, 2012 at 11:01 p.m

What is this, the fourth or fifth unsolicited post directed at me since this posting?

You seem to lack the slightest bit of decorum or decency. Go troll someone else fro. Your inability to grasp issues or back up the least of your claims has become more than tiresome.


nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

GOP Line About 'Largest Tax Increase In American History' Fails Fact Check

It is an AP article:

Also picked up by --

wait for it.....

*Now, that is Hilarious.*

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.

We're still, still, still, waiting for your resources, btw....

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.

This is a open forum, you post and get responses, you can not decide who responds to your posts. If you want a place that you can post and then pick and choose who responds, this is not the place for you.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.

And I am still waiting for you to refute anything I said. You can't even come up with one source.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

fro-So....among your other personal shortcomings, your word is crap. What a guy!

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.

I also said if you don't want to be called out on your liberal rags, don't reference them. But you try to claim, by taking only part of what I said, that I am not keeping my word.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When did Romney bail on Bain?


fro- I suppose no one knows us better that our own children...

*Hmmmm.. No comeback Fro? I would expect as much from a conservative. Snippy comments with out a shred of moral fiber. Hows about you try bring something, ANYTHING valid to the forum for discussion.*

Genevieve — April 2, 2012 at 9:22 p.m.

You should respect the wishes of others. Evidently a quality you have never been able to grasp. It is among the many of shortcomings that have been attributed to you in this forum.

From those in the know.

Go play with someone else.

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Using a quote from Gen, when she was pretending to be you, only proves that other people believe that you are out of touch with reality.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pretending to be me? :))))))))))) Really, that's the best you can do? Assume zero responsibility and re-allocate blame? Is this a new low, or a continuation. No matter sweetie, feel free to address others, and show respect for those that wish not to dialog with you. I suppose I also raked you over the coals about your inability to maintain relationships and having out of wedlock children....your answer/excuse is simply...pathetic, and needless to say, bears no merit.

WOW! Shameful @ best...

What I used to tell one of your conservative cohorts with whom you lament their absence, one who engaged with relentless personal vitriol while falsifying claims, crying victimization and begging for censorship with others...

Move on.

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:24 a.m.

When are we going to see the evidence that supports your claims.

For all I know, until we see what informed your thinking, the 'form your own opinion' might be you just talking through your hat.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pretending to be me? :))))))))))) Really, that's the best you can do? Assume zero responsibility and re-allocate blame? Is this a new low, or a continuation

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 11:13 a.m

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:31 a.m.

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 50 (2010) proves my point that the first amendment is not limited to people. I have asked for you to one legal precedent that says otherwise and you refuse, or you are unable because no source supports your view.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal- At least the Fonz's feat was successful!

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Civilizations in the final stages of decay are dominated by elites out of touch with reality. Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth. Karl Marx was correct when he called unregulated capitalism "a machine for demolishing limits." This failure to impose limits cannibalizes natural resources and human communities. This time, the difference is that when we go the whole planet will go with us. Catastrophic climate change is inevitable. Arctic ice is in terminal decline. There will soon be so much heat trapped in the atmosphere that any attempt to scale back carbon emissions will make no difference. Droughts. Floods. Heat waves. Killer hurricanes and tornados. Power outages. Freak weather. Rising sea levels. Crop destruction. Food shortages. Plagues.
ExxonMobil, BP and the coal and natural gas companies—like the colonial buffalo hunters who left thousands of carcasses rotting in the sun after stripping away the hides, and in some cases carrying away only the tongues—will never impose rational limits on themselves. They will exploit, like the hustlers before them who eliminated the animals that sustained the native peoples of the Great Plains, until there is nothing left to exploit. Collective suicide is never factored into quarterly profit reports. Forget all those virtuous words they taught you in school about our system of government. The real words to describe American power are "plunder," "fraud," "criminality," "deceit," "murder" and "repression."
Those native communities that were most accommodating to the European colonists, such as the peaceful California tribes—the Chilulas, Chimarikos, Urebures, Nipewais and Alonas, along with a hundred other bands—were the first to be destroyed. And while I do not advocate violence, indeed will seek every way to avoid it, I have no intention of accommodating corporate power whether it hides behind the mask of Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that resistance may ultimately be in vain. Yet to resist is to say something about us as human beings. It keeps alive the possibility of hope, even as all empirical evidence points to inevitable destruction. It makes victory, however remote, possible. And it makes life a little more difficult for the ruling class, which satisfies the very human emotion of vengeance.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Some folks never cease to amaze...

btw, comedy is a captcha word for this post!

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After careful consideration, in true Romney fashion after considering the disappearance of Alleycay, Allan, Basil, and Nailingit I would like to announce my candidacy for the post of obnoxious liberal basement dweller.

Genevieve — April 2, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.

CU wasn't conjured up out of thin air. Note that many pieces analyzing that decision say 'latest in a long line of decisions about corporate personhood.

That is why you need to read the history of the development of corporate personhood.

And, yes, I'm not feeding you the data. Just playing back 'go research it yourself'.

But I'll give you a hint: 18th Century definition of corporation. As an originalist, you should see its applicability.


So, how ya doin' on that delegate count?

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The hits keep on coming!!!

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 11:49 a.m.

In terms of illogical retorts:

captcha says: tribulation

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Corporate Profits at All-Time High; Wages at All-Time Low: Can We Call it Class War Yet?
The middle class is being hollowed out; increasingly, there are the super-super-rich, and there are the rest of us.
June 29, 2012 |
Sarah Jaffe

This week, David Segal at the New York Times broke the news to America that not only was Apple -- the computer and gadget manufacturer formerly seen as a symbol of good old American ingenuity -- making its profits on the backs of abused factory workers in China, but also on poorly paid store employees here in the US.

Apple store workers, he wrote, make up a large majority of Apple's US workforce—30,000 out of 43,000 employees in this country—and they make about $25,000 a year, or about $12 an hour.

Lawrence Mishel at the Economic Policy Institute notes that that's just a dollar above the federal poverty level. This for a company that paid nine of its top executives a total of $441 million in 2011.

“The discrepancy between Apple’s profits/executive pay and its compensation to its workers is a particularly glaring example of what is occurring in the wider economy,” Mishel writes.

And he's right. Also this week, Henry Blodget at Business Insider posted three charts that show just how out of whack our economic system really is. Corporate profits are now at an all-time high, while wages as a percent of the economy are at an all-time low, and fewer Americans are employed than at any time in the previous three decades.

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 2, 2012 at 11:52 a.m.

So, how ya doin' on that delegate count?

If you compare that with RCP delegate count it proves bias.

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the department of under appreciated youth with a penchant for blatant honesty..

**CPAC's boy wonder swings left**

“One of the first things that changed was that I stopped being a social conservative,” said Krohn. “It just didn’t seem right to me anymore. From there, it branched into other issues, everything from health care to economic issues.… I think I’ve changed a lot, and it’s not because I’ve become a liberal from being a conservative — it’s just that I thought about it more. The issues are so complex, you can’t just go with some ideological mantra for each substantive issue.”
Krohn is bucking the received wisdom that people become more conservative as they get older, a shift he attributes partly to philosophy.

Read more:

nailingit — July 2, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I will throw something out for you all to chew on:

I will agree that there is a problem in corporate America. The big business are taking in record profits while minimizing the spread of these monies to the employees that make up the majority of American consumers.
Is it possible that these ordinary Americans, Joe Schmoe on the street, is also contributing?
Look at how dependent we are on these big businesses in our everyday life. How many that are middle class and below still insist on having that cool new iPad? Or the name brand clothing? Or the trending new "organic" brand in the grocery store?
What happened to the America where a family could make it themselves with minimum provided by outside sources? I know not everyone has the land resources available to have a garden in their backyard, or raise their own livestock. But does no one have skills to make their own clothing with minimal material costs? Do you really need that new phone that can broadcast your location to the television network to customize the programming you watch?
Yes, businesses need to see if what they are earning is truly reasonable compared to the compensation they give to their employees. But what have you done to minimize your contribution to the "economic tyranny"?

danabwoodley — July 3, 2012 at 3:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

danabwoodley are you the one on the right?

soapbox4u — July 3, 2012 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

waving wildly at manthou, in case you are looking!

soapbox4u — July 3, 2012 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi everybody, just a note here since I'm out of town this week. I'm in Las Vegas and it's REALLY hot here, 103 today. I miss my beautiful Pacific Northwest and will be back next week.

Note to self, NEVER GO TO VEGAS IN JUNE, JULY, or AUGUST ***AGAIN!!!!***

hawkeye — July 3, 2012 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes I am on the right (in more ways than one)
Now my question is, why? Do I know you? Are you one of my skeletons?


103? that is all? I know, I miss the PNW weather myself (someone please send rain). But I have been in hotter temps. I am experiencing up to 120 now.

danabwoodley — July 3, 2012 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soap: Hey back atcha! I was happy to see your avatar this morning!

The C's servers were down for quite some time and I had fears that Scott Campbell decided to shutter the place and head for sunnier climes Elsewhere.

There is an interesting blog called Paper Cuts where a former, laid-off reporter documents print journalism lay offs and buy outs.

Sobering stats.

manthou — July 4, 2012 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

danabwoodley at 3:21 am: Yikes! Fireworks keeping you up like they did me a couple of nights ago?

A couple of great books for you by Martin Lindstrom: Brandwashed and Buyology. An educated consumer knows when they are being manipulated and how they are being manipulated to believe they need this gadget or that widget.

manthou — July 4, 2012 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well on most nights, no fireworks. They happen occasionally, and that would keep me up.
I think I see you don't have a firm grasp on my situation. Perhaps if you look at some of my previous posts, and time stamps. See if you can piece it together.
Vancouver is where I was born and raised, but it doesn't me I am there now.

danabwoodley — July 4, 2012 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What happened to the America where a family could make it themselves with minimum provided by outside sources?

danabwoodley — July 3, 2012 at 3:21 a.m.

Well, the feed sacks don't have patterns for children's clothing printed on them anymore.....

Sharpening a quill and finding the raw material for parchment in the backyard is beyond most now; but then so would building a computer from scratch. Real scratch..., not a trip to Fry's

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 2, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.

RCP has it right. One superdelegate. The rest, as you well know are 'soft' 'unbound'.

Kinda funny that RP uses a .uk blog as his 'official' count

also see:

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Look at how dependent we are on these big businesses in our everyday life.*

danabwoodley — July 3, 2012 at 3:21 a.m.

Good to see you using the 'we' word.

Now, tell us what you are doing about your dependency.

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Have fun hawkeye. I just got off the phone with my Mom and she said temp is only supposed to hit in the very low 100's! I spent a good part of my life there and have to say no matter how hot it is in July, late July and August really brings the fire! Most folks are at poolside or indoors with A/C.

I've always enjoyed/appreciated the summer attire Vegas brings on! :))

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DBW if stateside must be in Death Valley. Been to Scotty's Castle in the summer and have experienced 120+heat.

Hey soap! Your avatar reminds me of the GOP health plan.

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 11:29 a.m.

Your argument is total nonsense. If RCP has it right with only the one bound delegate in the Paul column, why do they count unbound delegates for Santorum and Romney? Santorum has no delegates hard or soft.

How does linking a GOP delegate count, from march when only 16 states had awarded **any** delegates support your flawed argument? You really are "grasping at straws" aren't you?

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 12:45 p.m.

CBS must be biased also.....

That the GOP site isn't being updated may be an issue....

But then, that RP uses a .uk blog as his 'official' count says something also.....

Now, since you are only focusing on the Iowa count, a non-binding caucus that arguably has one of the most complicated systems for selecting delegates in the country, and one that has many reports about how disruptive the RP contingent was, I'd say that it really doesn't matter.

RP has what, 1/10th of the delegates needed and there are delusional sycophants claiming he'll win the nomination.

And less delusional sycophants claiming he'll be an influence.

And, typical frobert behavior -'ignore all the evidence, let's just talk about what I want to point to'.

We're still waiting for your evidence......

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Conservatives seem to be out of control at just about every level. Senility?

**Antonin Scalia Criticized For Appearing More Political Than Judicial**

The outcry over his reference to Obama's announcement was immediate and included a call by liberal Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne for Scalia to resign. Conservative Judge Richard Posner of the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan, contributed this passage to Slate magazine's annual end-of-term discussion:

"These are fighting words. The nation is in the midst of a hard-fought presidential election campaign; the outcome is in doubt. Illegal immigration is a campaign issue. It wouldn't surprise me if Justice Scalia's opinion were quoted in campaign ads. The program that appalls Justice Scalia was announced almost two months after the oral argument in the Arizona case. It seems rather a belated development to figure in an opinion in the case," wrote Posner, who had taken Scalia to task in the past.

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obama honors new citizen soldiers**

“This is one of my favorite things to do,” Obama told the new citizens. “It brings me great joy an inspiration, and it reminds me that we are a country bound together not simply by ethnicity or bloodline, but by fidelity to a set of ideas.”

Read more:

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 11:29 a.m.

Wow, what a newsflash, George Soros funded liberal rag, the Huffington post, complains about conservatives. You should try getting your liberal propaganda from a variety of Soros funded sources like Basil does.

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 2:29 p.m.

For the second time this week, you whine about Huffington Post being liberal.

Because they reposted an AP article.

Last time you complained

*Now, that is Hilarious.
frobert — July 2, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.*


Fox News had also posted it.

It is a good idea to get accurate information, THEN 'form your own opinion'.

We'll let your confusion between nailingit and me slide for now, seems you have too much to research before you can begin to argue against either of us.

And btw, where is the accurate RP delegate count?

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On further reflection, you seem to be discounting anything posted by Huffington Post because they are liberal.

Without checking the source of their story.

Rather fast on the 'form your own opinion', eh?

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 4, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.

I am similarly critical of Fox news, but with the absence of Ray, nobody tries to put their propaganda forth as fact.

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Huff Post is what it is, displaying articles and opinion from a plethora of sources. From The Nation to Fox News, from the WSJ to Salon and beyond. I enjoy it for that very reason, as it's nice to have various sources at ones fingertips. Most likely The Huff counts as a little more than half of the links I choose, but lately, with a few uninformed bias posters condemning this award winning (to include a Pulitzer) publication, it's been more of a joy to link it!

Some fortunate women/citizens in Ohio, escaping the radical attempt on the right to bring big government into their lives. The numbers are staggering. Even with outside $$$ they're not able to come close to reaching enough signatures.

But I suppose it will provide a few bible thumpers with solid self-congratulatory testimonies they can share with their inner-circle a narrow minded bigoted people.

Another AP article by the way! :))

Ohio Personhood Ballot Initiative Falls Short Of Signature Goal
By ANN SANNER 07/03/12 07:29 PM ET

The group had collected only about 30,000 of the roughly 385,000 signatures required to be submitted to state officials on Wednesday for a chance to appear on November ballots, said Patrick Johnston, the director of Personhood Ohio.

The group pledged to continue seeking signatures ahead of 2013, but the shortfall was another setback for what has become known as the "personhood" movement.

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi again, just had to say they (the GOP) are running ads here in Vegas against Obama and they are really bad ads. They are taking pieces of Hillery's campaign against Obama four years ago and pretending it's new info. It's the worst put together piece of crap I've seen in a long time. It looks like a a 4th grader put it together (cause they ain't as smart as a 5th grader) and they tagged in Romney's "I approve of this message". I'll bet he's never even seen it. If he has, he's got no idea on how real ads should look.

Anyway, it's cooler today, even a little rain. Just waiting for the thunder and lightening and maybe some fireworks. They are illegal here like Portland.

hawkeye — July 4, 2012 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Ron Paul crowd has literally taken over Clark County/Vegas. It's no wonder these local yocals are putting crap out. It's all they've got.

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Daily Paul should at least get the name of "Clarke" County right. Jesus!

You'd think the one place they've taken over they could at least do that right!


mr_basil_seal @ 1:30 *And less delusional sycophants claiming he'll be an influence.*

I think RP/followers will be somewhat of an influence. The RP crowd has little restraint when it comes to decorum & procedure. By the time it's over "under the influence" might be more appropriate!

The Paul wing of the Republican party should be quite the circus this year at the RNC convention. Can't wait!!

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A fascinating article which provides deep insight into the Paul camp. Religious nuts on steroids! Oh God! Deliver us!!!

WEDNESDAY, JUL 4, 2012 01:30 PM PDT
**Religious right’s new rivals
There's a growing group of conservative Christians that's even more extreme -- and also in love with Ron Paul**

Paul and his followers are fond of describing themselves as a “remnant” — a biblical term referring to a small group of true believers who preach the gospel during the tribulation. In a speech to the South Texas Region of the **John Birch Society** the summer of 2009, Paul recounted his early study of Austrian economics, adding that “there was that remnant out there that did talk about it because no matter how bad things get, there’s always somebody available to try to hold things together, to hold the true beliefs, our true values, no matter what the government is doing.”

Describing his conversion from Bush family insider to Paul devotee, Doug Wead, who masterminded both Bushes’ evangelical outreach and in 2011 became a senior advisor to Paul’s campaign, told me last summer that evangelicals had been led astray by the culture war focus on establishing a “Christian nation.”

As much as that sounds anti-theocratic and anti-authoritarian, though, religious Paul supporters are not, as several emphasized to me, libertarian. They like authority — biblical authority.

nailingit — July 4, 2012 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

crazytrain — July 4, 2012 at 6:38 p.m

Big deal.

crazytrain — July 4, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.

Apparently they never heard of the separation of church and state. I think EVERY one of those pastors that are telling their "flock" to not vote for Obama should be fined and their church should lose their tax free status.

hawkeye — July 4, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not in Iraq, though I have been there.
Not in Death Valley, but was a bit south of there for a couple of years.

And Basil-

Yes I say we. I do not have the resources to be completely independent of what can be provided by these businesses. And what do I do about it?
I don't spend $120 on an item when I can get a comparable for $30.
I use a computer on my desk, maybe a laptop for when I must travel. I don't need my phone to do all those things. Make a call, and send a text, that is all I need.
I don't need every thing I wear have a name, or a logo on it. Just because he makes music that many enjoy, doesn't mean I need to spend an outrageous amount on Diddy's clothes.
Yes I like to have nice things to make my home comfortable and welcoming, but I do not need to extend my credit to rival the national debt to do it.
I know that these coporations take in these profits because we allow them to by our spending habits. I just make a conscious effort to control my spending and not get suckered into a purchase because some so called celebrity put their name on it. You know like Oprah Winfrey and George Clooney campaigning for Obama.

danabwoodley — July 4, 2012 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

crazytrain — July 4, 2012 at 6:40 p.m

I don't think this is a separation of church and state issue as hawk is trying to say. The constitution says that the government will not form a national religion, we are free to believe (or not) and practice as we choose.
I would like to think that the President has perhaps realized that this coalition, which by the headline consists exclusively of African Americans, is merely a perpetuation of division. And quite possibly he may see that if he has a chance for reelection, he must avoid any action which may be percieved as campaigning only to minorities.

For more on this, see my previous posts about the divisions in our society (not anti gay as some may believe).

danabwoodley — July 4, 2012 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 4, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.

It was an AP article. Not Fox, not NYT, not Columbian.....


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And what do I do about it? I don't spend $120 on an item when I can get a comparable for $30. I use a computer on my desk, maybe a laptop for when I must travel. I don't need my phone to do all those things.*
danabwoodley — July 4, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.

So, tell us about where that $30 item came from?

And how does not using a phone to post here make you more independent?

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"– A 2007 study found only 86 people had been convicted of voter fraud in the previous five years. Many appear to have been mistakes on forms or misunderstood rules, and most of the rest were incidents limited to local races."

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"People who say, 'Have teenagers, prisoners, the unemployed do the work' — that is an ideological position, not a viable solution," he said.

The question of farm labor is loaded with issues beyond the work itself — feelings about immigrants, about the causes and cures for unemployment — which is why it defies solution.

It's a problem in need of a less-political solution, and there may be one down the road. The Washington State Extension website has an update on projects to create robotic pickers for apples and cherries, two labor-intensive crops. Some of the technology exists and just needs to be adapted, the update said.

The problems of what to do with idle teens, and how to help homeless people in cities, need their own solutions.

But if you want to work in the fields for a season, check Washington Worksource for a list of jobs.

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The earthquake and tsunami of March 11, 2011, were natural disasters of a scale that shocked the entire world. Although triggered by these cataclysmic events, the subsequent disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant cannot be regarded as a natural disaster. It was a profoundly manmade disaster – that could and should have been foreseen and prevented. And its effects could have been mitigated by a more effective human response.

These are the first words in the official report of the Fukushima Nuclear Accident Independent Investigation Commission,

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Basil-

Either a) you cannot find a useful argument against my position, or b) you come on here only to argue with people.

I am just saying I am not one of those tech junkies that absolutely must have that new iPhone the week it is released.
If my use of technology interfering with my frugality offends you then I deeply apologize for being me.
On second thought, forget it. I am me, deal with it.

danabwoodley — July 5, 2012 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

danabwoodley — July 5, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.

You declaimed, "Look at how dependent we are on these big businesses in our everyday life."

And then you claim to save money by spending 30 instead of 120.

How does that make you less dependent on "big businesses"?

How does spending time on a "big businesses" 's website by a desktop computer make you less dependent than by using an iphone?

To be honest, I spend about 1/2 the time it takes reading your posts trying to figure out what you position is.

The string of posts about your concerns on gay rights is a perfect example.

So my posts tend to be aimed at trying to get you to respond and clarify.

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bad News for Conservatives? Moral Judgments and the Dark Triad PersonalityTraits: A Correlational Study

"We found eleven significant correlations between conservative MIS judgments and the Dark Triad – all at significance level of p<.00001 – and no significant correlations between liberal MIS judgments and the Dark Triad. We believe that these results raise provocative moral questions about the personality bases of moral judgments. In particular, we propose that because the Short-D3 measures three “dark and antisocial” personality traits, **our results raise some prima facie worries about the moral justification of some conservative moral judgments**."

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

From this interview it's easy to understand why Republicans are upset with this guy. Painfully clear Mitt isn't ready for prime time. (can't wait for the debates!) Hard to tell which one is running for office! Maybe Ann will take the VP slot. These uber wealthy out of touch elitists playing the victim card is more than hard to swallow...Yikes!!!

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal @ 7:55- Thanks for the contribution! I'll get my headphones later and check it out.
I love it when Neil performs with Crazy Horse. I listened to the first track and yowsa! Good ol' rag tag rock n roll to include Neil's pinch harmonics! He never disappoints!

The Barney vid is just..precious! He so much reminds me of a poster or two on this forum. I guess he didn't have a back pocket RP edition to reference. Total LOL!

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Conservatives...:).....what oh what are we to do? OBAMA 2012

**Whites-Only Christian Conference Held In Alabama By Pastor William J. Collier's Church of God's Chosen**

When asked about the conference's Whites Only policy, Collier offered this explanation to WECT:

"We don't have the facilities to accommodate other people. We haven't got any invitations to black, Muslim events. Of course we are not invited to Jewish events and stuff."

Now underway, the conference is offering seminars on the "America Christian Nation" and "Grass Roots Activism," along with daily worship. The event reportedly is festooned with symbols of the Ku Klux Klan, Confederate flags and white supremecy slogans.

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

June 5, 2012
For those of you who want to hear 100 %, of the audio, the Americana Bluray is the place to get it. Even the new "mastered for I-tunes" tracks available of CrazyHorse's Americana will have only 5% of the original audio while the CD has just 15%. The Bluray has 100%. On the Bluray you can hear all of the nuances of the CrazyHorse sound exactly as recorded by John Hanlon at Audio Casablanca Studio. If you want the best, now you have a choice. The Americana Bluray also contains 12 videos of the Americana songs, with an alternate version of "Clementine," plus documentary footage of the Americana choir as it was being recorded at East West Studios in LA.

On my wishlist

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.

The article you posted says nothing about conservatism. The very fact that the group seems to support the KKK, aa organization that has never allowed republicans, would indicate they have nothing to do with republicans.

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Of course, back in the day, the Republican Party wasn't your grandfather's Republican Party.

You know, like the 'Lincoln was a Republican' theme, attempting to put today's rw Republican's in a favorable light.


mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, where is the most accurate delegate count for the RP sycophants?

You know, the one RP sycophants use to "form their own opinion".

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 12:38 p.m

Spare us your Orwellian rewrites of history. Lincoln was in fact a republican, yes there are a few platform differences in today's party but not many.

Why do liberals constantly spout vitriol and hate towards anybody that disagrees with them? Is because they have nothing positive to say about their own party?

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 2:30 p.m.

I have primary sources for your claim about the Republican Party platform over the years; let's see your proof for "..there are a few platform differences in today's party but not many."

I can understand that you'll need a few days. It has taken a couple of weeks for you to provide a source that shows what you consider a reliable delegate count.*

So, I don't expect a substantive reply for awhile; but could we hope for next week's forum?

*And that includes you not acknowledging the .uk blog that RP links to as reliable......

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — July 5, 2012 at 2:46 p.m.

You are the one making the extraordinary claim that republicans are not republicans, it is up to you to prove it , i would suggest using the links I posted last time you lost this argument. You know as well as I do that the core platform of the republican party is unchanged, states rights, opposed to extravagant excesses in government and anti slavery. The modern republicans have added a few "social" issues, abortion, war on drugs and marriage restrictions, I disagree with these, but overall the platforms are very similar.

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Machiavellianism... heh.

I read _The Prince_ over a period of several weeks. I did the reading whilst sitting upon the throne. The book was in the bathroom of our new shop after the business had moved from Portland to VanWa.

These days I read the comics.


Drift — July 5, 2012 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A message from one of the brightest conservatives in America...

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry to put such a strain on you Basil. I see you must be so closed in your mind, and narrow in your focus, you just cannot possibly imagine a position that differs in any way from your own. And if you do see one, it is so baffling you discount it as incomprehensible.
However I do enjoy a debate. And I will not be wavered from expressing my views. I do wish I had a more personal forum available, where I could interact with people, but until that opportunity is returned to me I will settle with the entertainment you all provide me.

And the point is that I am not independent from the big, business. I am saying that I make my purchasing decisions based upon what I actually need, not what the advertisers try to tell me that I should have. The lower priced items are not necessarily of inferior quality, and most often come from smaller business that are not in the habit of lining their coffers in the worship of the almighty dollar.
We as consumers have more control than you may think. Unfortunately so many allow themselves to be led like mice following a flute's tune.
And if I could ask, Basil, do you consider the Columbian to be a Big Business that is raking in record profits without fair distribution in the compensation of it's employees? That is the only concievable way you can talk of me spending time on the website of a big business, unless you work for CIA are are monitoring my entire Internet experience under the auspices of the Patriot Act?

danabwoodley — July 5, 2012 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I & me count @ 8:07 (drumroll).............................21!

*I will settle with the entertainment you all provide me*.

You are quite entertaining yourself!!! ;)

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." –Bill Clinton

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." –Bill Clinton

"It depends on how you define alone…" –Bill Clinton

The best and the brightest liberals have to offer, and you think you have room to call Palin stupid?

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's stop beating around the 'Bush' :)) Tactics like Mork used turned me off on the Republican party...and causes division among the masses!

Calling Orson...Destroy all liberals...destroy all liberals...Mork calling Orson...

Do you guys vote!!! May God help us!!!

This is why Bush served two terms!

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...of things Palin, John Adams, Baggers and....

...the constitution!

nailingit — July 5, 2012 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


'ignore' is your friend.

did you read about finding the 'god particle? it's been announced so many times now, i'm such a skeptic i'm gonna need tons more than a paper published. BUT....

just imagine how radically the word would change. me, i'd like to visit the bottom of a black holel

DeeLittle — July 6, 2012 at 1:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK nail. Now you want to nit pick at my use of personal pronouns when I refer to myself? Because when I am speaking of a particular individual in which my consciousness resides, what other terms should I use?

I would like to make clear to everyone that yes, I am a conservative. My beliefs are personal liberty, minimal government, and fiscal responsibility. I do beleive in free enterprise, but not abusive business practices. I beleive one should have a choice, but not at the expense of another. I beleive in the freedom of religion, does not mean the freedom from religion.

Yes, a majority of my views are consistant with the Republican Party, however I am not a sycophant who will stand by the party no matter what. If someone is wrong, regardless of party, I will make it known.

I will never say anyone is wrong merely for being a Democrat or a liberal.

I believe that when a person makes a choice in an election, they should look at the platforms of the candidate and choose who they believe would be the better choice. You will never find a candidate with whom you will 100% agree. You can only hope to find the one that most closely parallels your own position.

I say these things because I would like to believe that we can have a dialogue that is not rooted in partisanship. I challenge you all to disagree, but look at the others point of view. I do not like seeing people being insulted merely because you disagree with their politics. Some have made mistakes, and costly ones. When they are wrong, call them out.

Examples I refer to:
Some have referred to GW Bush as mentally challenged. Uncalled for.
Some question BH Obama's true citizenship. Now would be a bit too late for that to matter, and does nothing to move us as a people forward.

I know that this has been a bit long winded, and some may choose to pick this apart and find fault in it. Have at it. Remember, RW, LW, Dem, GOP, none of that matters to me.

danabwoodley — July 6, 2012 at 1:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

deelittle@ 1:40 am: So glad to see you gain a keen interest in particle physics!

Had the mass media not used its divine-inspired nickname (barely tolerated by the scientists who study this), but wrote about the Higgs boson particle instead, would you have noticed?

Just wondering.

Maybe if we had renamed stem cell research something euphemistic like "God's miracle repair recipe", it might have enjoyed enthusiastic funding by a previous administration. :)

As for Higgs boson: European scientists confirmed its existence on America's July 4, reminding us we still suck at science. :)

manthou — July 6, 2012 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So disappointed in the innuendo that passes for a news story as The C tried to tie Jeanne Harris's insurance claim to her financial woes.

A detached retina that resisted 6 surgical repairs is a serious injury and the skewering of her on the FB side makes me want to turn in my membership card to the human race, at least in Clark County. It is not unreasonable to request this type of compensation for loss of an eye. But, by God, Jeanne Harris is a public figure who made some very public errors and we need to keep hounding her for sport.

From a great new journalism site called Watch Dog City, I am posting its link to its very good code of journalism ethics:

manthou — July 6, 2012 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frankly, I believe the announcement of the Higgs is a bit premature. It's a bit reminiscent of the Martian "fossils."

Drift — July 6, 2012 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: glad the mention of ooey-gooey physics disguised-as-divine lured you back to comment.!:)

Don't be such a stranger on here.........

Don't you have another book signing party coming up?

manthou — July 6, 2012 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Analogies abound! :) My hope is for all to think for themselves.

~Being unwilling to change is at the heart of conservatism. In an ever changing world we have the choice to be stuck and blur the lines in order to accommodate one's current thought...

...or we can move with & shape change in our present world for the greater good. To be progressive. Not to sacrifice values, but understanding what true values are.~

[excerpt from the chronicles of lian tigni-Orkrainian edition. ref. 20:12] The Browning of Noones caliber. 30.6 for the 'elk.. sommer-Foundation for the living

nailingit — July 6, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As I've mentioned before, manthou, I'm not much for the politics. I'm no physicist (heck... can't hardly spell it), but I do enjoy science. Pop over to my "dope blog" sometime ( and check out the medicinal category.

Yep, another signing the 21st. Iron Horse Garage is owned by one of the characters in the book, Fried Fred - though he goes by Wild Bill these days. Take a look at my publisher's website ( and you can read about the details. 100% of my proceeds will be going to a good cause.
Click on the "events" page.

Drift — July 6, 2012 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**A slow death for No Child Left Behind?**

The Department of Education announced Friday that two more states - Washington and Wisconsin - have been granted waivers from the No Child Left Behind education law. That brings the total number of states that have been granted waivers from the program to 26, which means more than half of states have now been freed from having to meet the law's requirements.
Ten other states and the District of Columbia have also requested waivers; their applications are currently under review. Just 14 states have not sought waivers from the law, and they are eligible to do so in the future.

In a press release announcing the latest waivers, the Department of Education made clear the Obama administration's dim view of the law. The Department said that NCLB's "rigid, top-down prescriptions for reform, while well-intentioned, proved burdensome for many states."

nailingit — July 6, 2012 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“Because children grow up, we think a child's purpose is to grow up. But a child's purpose is to be a child. Nature doesn't disdain what lives only for a day. It pours the whole of itself into the each moment. We don't value the lily less for not being made of flint and built to last. Life's bounty is in its flow, later is too late. Where is the song when it's been sung? The dance when it's been danced? It's only we humans who want to own the future, too. We persuade ourselves that the universe is modestly employed in unfolding our destination. We note the haphazard chaos of history by the day, by the hour, but there is something wrong with the picture. Where is the unity, the meaning, of nature's highest creation? Surely those millions of little streams of accident and wilfulness have their correction in the vast underground river which, without a doubt, is carrying us to the place where we're expected! But there is no such place, that's why it's called utopia. The death of a child has no more meaning than the death of armies, of nations. Was the child happy while he lived? That is a proper question, the only question. If we can't arrange our own happiness, it's a conceit beyond vulgarity to arrange the happiness of those who come after us.”
― Tom Stoppard, The Coast of Utopia

nailingit — July 6, 2012 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Did John Roberts Accidentally Save Planned Parenthood?**

By rewriting the rules that govern which strings the federal government can attach to its spending on the state level, Chief Justice John Roberts may have inadvertently prevented a future Tea Party-dominated Congress from executing one of its top priorities, defunding Planned Parenthood.

nailingit — July 6, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 5, 2012 at 3:33 p.m

Attempting to use 'Lincoln was a republican' as a claim to put the current Republican Party in a good light is a logical fallacy.

A weak attempt by R's to bridge a logical chasm of philosophy.

Which is yet another reason why I asked to see your proof that the "..there are a few platform differences in today's party but not many."

Whhich I see you haven't produced.

mr_basil_seal — July 8, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, where is the most accurate delegate count for the RP sycophants?

You know, the one RP sycophants use to "form their own opinion".

mr_basil_seal — July 8, 2012 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

danabwoodley — July 8, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.

conscientious objectors?

mr_basil_seal — July 8, 2012 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your post is a bit broad, dana. Are you asking if "social glue" is a connvived issue whose purpose is to herd society into some shape perceived as profitable for the Powers That Be?

My opinion is, most likely.

I don't care for the idea of conscription. On the other hand I believe military service is a very good learning experience for young people. But then, so are things like the Job Corps.

I know folks who've turned the skills learned in either into a lifetime profession.

Drift — July 8, 2012 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

danabwoodley — July 8, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.

As with anything, there are pros and cons.

Perhaps the biggest pro for universal conscription is that people wouldn't be so eager to support sending our military around the world, fighting against every injustice (real or perceived), if their lives and those of their children were on the line. Our volunteer military has led to a situation where less than 1% of the population have a personal stake - and it seems those beating the war drums loudest have no intention of putting their own lives on the line.

The greatest con would have to be the expense. A universal draft works in smaller countries, but maintaining a standing military with a population our size would be quite expensive. As I recall, Charles Moskos floated this idea some years back, and even tried factoring in a reduced service commitment - say a year or 18 months. Balancing the cost and time required to train today's military didn't make this feasible.

Also, as a retired Army First Sergeant, I had enough problems dealing with people who volunteered but couldn't/wouldn't accept that others had the authority to make decisions for them. Having a peacetime military manned with people who didn't choose to be there is what resulted in the discipline problems our military faced in the '70s, which in turn led to the all volunteer military.

Now, if you want to extend the scope of national service beyond just the military - I'd agree. There are plenty of ways one could contribute. Hmmm... for starters, how about an "army" devoted to maintaining the nation's highways? And requiring federal tuition assistance recipients to serve a period of time in economically depressed areas (is this program still there for doctors?).

roger — July 8, 2012 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Groups Shield Political Gifts of Businesses**

The giant insurer Aetna directed more than $3 million last year to the American Action Network, a Republican-leaning nonprofit organization that has spent millions of dollars attacking lawmakers who voted for President Obama’s health care bill — even as Aetna’s president publicly voiced support for the legislation.

Other corporations, including Prudential Financial, Dow Chemical and the drugmaker Merck, have poured millions of dollars more into the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, a tax-exempt trade group that has pledged to spend at least $50 million on political advertising this election cycle. Read more @

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Gary Johnson factor

Former Colorado Rep. Bob Beauprez, a Republican and Romney supporter, acknowledged that it’s “possible” Johnson could shave off enough votes from one party or another to tip the race in his state.

Read more:

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good column John Laird! The old farts in Whinerville continue to gripe about anything & everything. Even free concerts! Vancouver missed a great opportunity to bring Minor league baseball here. I hope Dems are energized this election. Time to move forward & toss the curmudgeons to the curb.

It's the old "I've got mine & screw everyone else" attitude that is so prevalent with Seniors today.

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"crazy"- You sound like such a delightful person!

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Jan Brewer Asks Supreme Court To Overturn Ruling Allowing Benefits For Same-Sex Partners**

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Courtesy of the awesome Kay in Maine at White Noise Insanity

Now You’re Mad?!

After The 8 Years Of The Bush/Cheney Disaster, Now You Get Mad?

You didn’t get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.

You didn’t get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate
Energy policy and push us to invade Iraq.

You didn’t get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

You didn’t get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.

You didn’t get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.

You didn’t get mad when we spent over 800 billion (and counting) on said illegal war.

You didn’t get mad when Bush borrowed more money from foreign sources than the previous 42 Presidents combined.

You didn’t get mad when over 10 billion dollars in cash just disappeared in Iraq.

You didn’t get mad when you found out we were torturing people.

You didn’t get mad when Bush embraced trade and outsourcing policies that shipped 6 million American jobs out of the country.

You didn’t get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.

You didn’t get mad when Bush said he wasn’t concerned about Bin Laden, just a few months after 911.

You didn’t get mad when Bush rang up 10 trillion dollars in combined budget and current account deficits.

You didn’t get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

You didn’t get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans, drown.

You didn’t get mad when we gave people who had more money than they could spend, the filthy rich, over a trillion dollars in tax breaks.

You didn’t get mad with the worst 8 years of job creations in several decades.

You didn’t get mad when over 200,000 US Citizens died over an 8-year period because they had no health insurance.

You didn’t get mad when lack of oversight and regulations from the Bush Administration caused US Citizens to lose 12 trillion dollars in investments, retirement, and home values.

You finally got mad when a black man was elected President and decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, job losses by the millions, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, and the worst economic disaster since 1929 are all okay with you, but helping fellow Americans who are sick…oh hell no.

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Have you not heard of a conscientious objector?

I will agree that it is tough enough being a leader in an all volunteer force with a generation that has such issues with conformity. And I am not going to be a big advocate that we do away with the idea of a citizens free choice whether or not to serve.
I do, however believe that, as a citizen, you have a moral obligation to provide some sort of service to the Constitution and the Nation. Too many people today expect so much from this country and are not willing to give anything.
Yes they do have programs for people to get an education and pay their debt by serving in a community that is without adequate resources. But there have been cases where someone would shirk this obligation and suffer no repercussions.

I will close in saying, while I do not support conscription, should it come our way, we should clean it up from what it used to look like. 1) the only deferrment will be for an education that would lead to a skill that the service would require. Otherwise, it can wait until your service is complete. Many in the all volunteer force do exactly that, if for no other reason then to have financial aid already available as a veterans benefit.
2) No amount of money will get you out of your service. Started during the Civil War, you could buy your way out of the draft, or hire a substitute. Later, many wealthy would call in "favors" to get their sons out of service. This must cease. You want to the privileges of citizenship, you can bear the burden of service. You can be disqualified only by a valid medical reason diagnosed by a physician.

Now, anyone with a counterpoint?

danabwoodley — July 8, 2012 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone find it amusing that when others have a disagreement with a particular person, they will find a million and one things that are wrong, but the person they like never has any flaws pointed out?

danabwoodley — July 8, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 8:21 p.m.

More hate and vitriol from Maher. Why am I not surprised that liberals are such purveyor of hate?

frobert — July 8, 2012 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some more fun from Maher. Some will never learn.

Simply, because they can't...

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kinda reminds me of a few Columbian FB comments!

One of countless examples. Amazing...

Conservatives. They are ruining our country one vote at a time.

OBAMA 2012

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not a counter point, dana, but a question. Will you tell me why I owe the United States of America anything? Wait, before you do that, would you please define "United States of America."


(I shouldn't have done that... I been drinkin', hee, hee...)

Drift — July 8, 2012 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No thinking person, or any person with even so much as a shred of decency or compassion would even watch a Maher video. You must post those for just the liberals.

frobert — July 8, 2012 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes one just feels...inspired!

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 10:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And leaving satire at home, this senior conservative self professed bagger denounces "liberals" utilizing like minded critical thinking skills like a few in this forum do.

Conservatives. Time is our friend. :))

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Had to post something solid to close with.

How do conservatives/baggers listen to themselves without thinkin...

I just answered my question!

Play it Neil!

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 11:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The basis of the United States of America is our Constitution, why it listed it first. That one document that established out government, and in Ammendments outlines our liberties.
Without this document you may not have the freedom to speak publicly in disagreement with your government. You wouldn't have the ability to own land and home. You wouldn't have the ability to defend your home.

Also, there are those that are sworn to defend that Constitution which outlines your liberties. So from all of us...

You're welcome.

danabwoodley — July 9, 2012 at 12:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"*I will agree that it is tough enough being a leader in an all volunteer force with a generation that has such issues with conformity.*"

You are complaining about " issues with conformity"? In a country with a primary document that supports ""Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"?

Not to mention supports the rights of individuals.....

mr_basil_seal — July 9, 2012 at 6:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"You wouldn't have the ability to own land and home. You wouldn't have the ability to defend your home.*"

There are many countries where all the above are basic legal rights.

mr_basil_seal — July 9, 2012 at 6:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 8, 2012 at 7:50 p.m.

Worth repeating every week.


mr_basil_seal — July 9, 2012 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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