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Why We Regulate
Published: May 13, 2012

It’s clear, then, that we need to restore the sorts of safeguards that gave us a couple of generations without major banking panics. It’s clear, that is, to everyone except bankers and the politicians they bankroll — for now that they have been bailed out, the bankers would of course like to go back to business as usual. Did I mention that Wall Street is giving vast sums to Mitt Romney, who has promised to repeal recent financial reforms?

Please read more...;=rssnyt&emc;=rss

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seeing as how Wall St has ignored since Jan 2011 the Dodd-Frank bill, and a letter from the US Senate to the commissioner of the SEC last March demanding compliance has been ignored, and obviously no arrests have or probably will be made, it seems regulation is just a dog and pony show for public consumption. Politicians are so deeply into Wall St's pockets they are essentially useless in reigning these guys in. As JP Morgan has illustrated, they don't give a rat's rear end what Washington says or does.

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 8:18 a.m.

Maybe it's time to arrest all in non-compliance and the SEC commissioner. Maybe then they would take things a little more seriously.

hawkeye — May 14, 2012 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.
"Did I mention that Wall Street is giving vast sums to Mitt Romney"

Did you mention that they are giving vast sums to Obama?

frobert — May 14, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

fro- Both sides are taking money and hold no moral ground. At least Obama is mouthing for regs while Romney promises to deregulate. Dodd Frank has been watered down and trumpeted by the right (Fox News big time) as Evil Obama regulation. Many on the right need to get a clue and understand that lack of regulation (derivatives trading in particular) hurts everyone. Think back to 2007. The guidelines in the Volker Rule need to be meaningful & clear. The right has denounced and misinformed about Dodd/Frank so much that people are against it while not understanding it.

Politicians on both sides of the aisle are killing us on this issue. On this point it is definitely the lesser of two evils to elect Obama. But the lesser it is.

I don't claim to be an expert on the economy, far from it. But I think concerning this issue, after the George Bush Bank Bailout, most folks would agree the banks need the watchful eye of Government. It's the only way the consumer (us) have any type of Guarantee.

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's understand the what who & why that brought us this financial mess.

Bush/Republicans trashed regulation and partied on our dime for 7 years.

Let's not forget.

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

the sad part of all this is a lot of folks believe such regulations on "private" industries, in this case, the financial industry is that evil socialism. They don't realize the irony of that position. With the taxpayers available to bail these crooks out, and the government insuring essentially the whole system (socialism anyone?), they don't pay much attention to risk management. Short term profits that lead to huge bonuses are what they're focused on.

Another point-both parties are socialist, but that can't become part of the arguement. Republicans support corporate subsidies, tax structuring to favor corporations, and outright tax breaks, usually under the guise of job creation. (Job creation is simply re-named trickle down economics-a proven failure) In reality, this is redistributing wealth, just upwards. The notion of distributing wealth downward to, say a single mom amongs the working poor is heresy.

Democrats, on the other hand, want to see the wealth flow both ways. Their corporate masters need their due, of course, but they'd like to see some crumbs go to the poor, a downward redistribution of wealth.

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.

Thanks for the memories, I threw up a little in my mouth on that one. I'm well aware of the losses every month my pension check comes in. Damn bankers.

hawkeye — May 14, 2012 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd- Excellent post. I was going to quote a part of it in response, but it's all quotable! I guess socialism is in the eye of the beholder. :) I couldn't agree more about your take on trickle up economics. The sad thing is the Republicans have pushed so far to the right government becomes one big filibuster. If the Dems get control again, I hope it's taken as a mandate to get some major reform done.

hawk- My sentiments exactly. Right wing pundits drill messaging in the heads of their followers day in and day out. I bet most of them think Obama headed up the bailout! They have made the word "stimulus" a dirty word, when in fact it had a huge positive impact to our economy.

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal week, same stuff....

DeeLittle — May 14, 2012 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If the fed would raise the interest rates, the practice of using hedge funds might be lessened. Part of the problem is what a bank-JP Morgan in this case-considers a hedge fund isn't what the Volker rules considered a hedge fund. The banks, well, being their unregulated selves, can pretty much define hedge funds as anything they want. And this allows hedge funds to be as speculative (and risky) as these huge, taxpayer insured, unregulated banks desire. In Morgan's case, the hedge fund wasn't even a hedge fund being used to offset risk elsewhere, it was a pure gamble, and it lost. Good thing it was relatively small, so the bank can absorb it and we won't get the bill. The bad thing is, this bank is so big (assets in th3 trillions), it's so way beyond too big to fail it can't get back to too big to fail.
Not sure if the claim of artificially low rates by the fed leads to such practices, as some claim. Their claim is that there's more money to be made gambling than lending. But, when one considers the source, the financial industry, that claim has to be viewed very skeptically. With the fox guarding the chicken coop nowdays, you can't sell these crooks short.

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 3:26 p.m

It just occurred to me (after reading your post) that there used to be a few companies that at one time were "too big to fail". They were Standard Oil and AT&T.; Remember what the government did to them?

hawkeye — May 14, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...'ignore' is such a nice feature :)

DeeLittle — May 14, 2012 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Congresswoman Cathy McMorris-Rodgers embarrasses Washington State once again. Tune in to Hardball at 4:00. I watched it at 2:00 and this person is just ridiculous. At times she can't even keep a straight face.

**Violence Against Women Act Shouldn't Cover Same-Sex Couples, GOP Congresswoman Says**

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I can even remember when there were no super-PAC's, lobbyists, well-heeled special interest groups.....that have turned our political system into an owner-operated system. It's gotta be tough to regulate your master. It also seems the media exists to go to press conferences or obtain press releases and report on that. Not much investigative reporting in the mainstream. I used to watch the Sunday morning press shows, but got tired of hearing canned repsponses, or more often than not, a bunch of blathering as the person being interviewed danced around or even proclaimed "that's not the question, the question is...." In all my life, I've never seen such disarray in the political process. With participation now being so low, it's easy for relatively minor views to get mainlined to being seen as of major importance. (Tea baggers, Ron Paul-sorry fro) I've decided to vote this year for that reason only.

mrd — May 14, 2012 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey guys, there is an article about the price of gas on the main page and I'm getting a little ticked off about it. I get my gas at Costco and last Monday it was $3.85. Today it's $3.99. Other places it's gone up over 20 cents in one week. Some places it went up 15 cents in one day. Why? Well read the article.

Then click on this link and tell her how you feel about it, if you can.

She says she wants to help, prove it.

hawkeye — May 14, 2012 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Isn't this why the Beatles quit touring??*

*These guys just can't behave themselves.*

**Ron Paul's message to the GOP**

In an afternoon press release that read like a concession speech, the Texas congressman said that he’ll continue trying to rack up delegates with the goal of making a splash this August in Tampa. But those close to the 76-year-old say he’s become worried about a series of chaotic state GOP conventions in recent weeks that threaten to undermine the long-term viability of the movement he’s spent decades building.

In the past few days alone, several incidents cast the campaign in an unfavorable light: Mitt Romney’s son Josh was booed off the stage by Paul backers in Arizona Saturday, and Romney surrogates Tim Pawlenty and Gov. Mary Fallin received similarly rude treatment in Oklahoma. They were the latest in a string of recent disruptions from Maine to Alaska that threatened to tarnish Paul’s legacy and marginalize the ideas he believes will one day dominate the Republican Party.

“It concerns him,” campaign chairman Jesse Benton told POLITICO. “He wants to convey to everybody and our staff want to convey that we’ll lose more than we gain if we go and we’re disrespectful. Respect and decorum are very important to Dr. Paul.”

Read more:

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye- It ain't right. "Scheduled Maintenance" = scheduled price hike = insane profits at the taxpayers expense. Given the Theatre of the Absurd that will be Issa's legacy, have the House investigate this.

I think they are still busy analyzing President Obama's birth certificate.


Romney should define his policy views pretty quick. The Bain ads are going to tear him up.

Does Romney have a foreign policy? Economic policy? (outside of embracing the Ryan plan) Outside of Mitt citing a few ins & outs of the financial world, Obama will destroy Romney in future debates. As Governor 47th in job creation...Romney has to cite how many jobs he "created" at returns, off shore accounts, the Mormon Factor, would refuse 10-1 ratio of Government cuts to tax increases...onandonandon. By the time convention comes around, not only the Paul crowd will long for a nominee change.

Once again, this is the best the Republicans can do. Romney. A Massachusettes uber wealthy elitist that openly wants to take our country back to the Bush years. Knowing how that turned out. No backbone, no spine, and no resolve. At least I'm not seeing it. Does anyone?

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On a side note, ya gotta love summer fashion!

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...wonderful day today...warm, sunny....quiet....

*hapy sigh*

anybody read the stratford report on putin & russia's new positioning in europe...?

DeeLittle — May 14, 2012 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Say it ain't so!* ;)

**Ron Paul Accused Of Fraud By The Liberty Committee Over Plane Tickets**

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd give Paul the benefit of the doubt. I doubt if he intentionally attempted to collect twice on plane tickets. He probably didn't know or care who was paying, the non-profit or the taxpayers, he just knew like all politicians, that to him, it was free! With rank comes privilege.

mrd — May 15, 2012 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You could be right mrd. Given that Paul is basically dropping out because of a lack of unity and trust with his followers ability to deliver his "message", I think this speaks to the lack of cohesiveness within the Paul camp. Sounds like the natives are restless, and now they are forsaken.

Paul's platform is out of touch and not applicable for today's America. I think his followers are as frustrated with their philosophy, as they are with reality.

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That all Romney wants is to take us back to the Bush years...Really, your still hanging your dithering head and using the blame game after more than 3 years in his presidency, Obama has yet to even have a budget, unless you call the current almost 15 trillion deficit a budget..Oh yes he does as does those folks in Europe who economies are folding like cheap lawn chairs... His failed economic policies are what is driving our poor economy and the worlds...We need a strong fiscal leader that can make the tough decisions to add jobs and spur growth in our country. Obama bashes Romney for one company the shut down... Fact of the matter it needed to be shut down. If you’re not making money at something and want to do it for a hobby well that’s ok but not in the business world.
Hawk, send your letters and emails to Jamie as well. I've sent probably 20 on the same topics. Fact of the matter is she as one individual may not be able to make a difference; don't we think all the representatives in California should be screaming too?? Oh but most of those in the bay area are Dems, so the left is not bludgeoning them so much..Like I said before are we better off than when Obama took office, obviously not... Then you want four more years of failed legislation. That will have been the worst eight years in our country's existence most likely....We need a leader not a savior. Go to church if your looking for one.

vanwadreamer — May 15, 2012 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 8:20 a.m.

"Paul's platform is out of touch and not applicable for today's America."

Peace and personal liberty is out of touch with today's America?

Now, that is a sad statement.

frobert — May 15, 2012 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — May 15, 2012 at 9:41 a.m

You miss your second cup of coffee this morning, or something? You're kind of rambling.

Not sure if you are ragging on me or not.

As for being better off since Obama took office, I believe we are. I think things have stabilized and the country as a whole is in a holding pattern until things start to pick up again. The House could go a long way to help out with this but they refuse to work WITH the President. Good way to get re-elected.

As for Jamie, I will continue to send letters to whoever is in office and complain about whatever I want to complain about. That is my right as a citizen of this district and their responsibility as my representative. I cannot control what others do in other places of the country..

hawkeye — May 15, 2012 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

His failed economic policies are what is driving our poor economy and the worlds.

vanwa-care to elaborate? which fiscal policies have been enacted that are so ruinous?

also, the federal deficits have ranged between $1.3T in 2009 (that would be Bush's). It almost doubled from 2008 when Iraq & Afganistan came into play. The wars belong to both Obama & Bush.

the federal deficit is projected to come in at $1.4 trillion.

I believe $15T is the total federal debt.

The federal deficit is bad, but it has actually been higher in % of the economy.

mrd — May 15, 2012 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For you folks watching the deficit. Doesn't include 2011 but the last paragraph is good.

October 15, 2010
DEFICIT SHRINKS FROM LAST YEAR'S RECORD.... Deficit hawks probably won't be pleased with the total, but they should at least be pleased with the direction.

The federal government budget deficit shrank in fiscal 2010, but the big gap was only $122 billion lower than the record high set a year ago.

The U.S. spent $1.294 trillion more than it collected in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, the Treasury Department said Friday.

The deficit amounted to 8.9% of gross domestic product. That's down from fiscal 2009, when the deficit of $1.416 trillion was 10.0% of GDP.

Spending fell and revenues rose in fiscal 2010 as the economy recovered from the deep recession that contributed to the nation's troubled fiscal condition.

If this sounds familiar, it's because the Congressional Budget Office reported on its estimate of the federal budget deficit for FY2010 would just last week. Today's Treasury report is the official deficit tally, though as it turns out, the CBO projection was almost on the nose.

The $1.294 trillion shortfall is smaller than last year's total; it's slightly lower than the deficit President Obama inherited from his predecessor; and the final figure was smaller than projections made by the administration and the CBO earlier this year.

Want to have some fun? Ask your favorite Tea Partier whether the deficit they claim to care so much about is higher or lower now than when Obama took office. They won't care for the answer, but it's true.

mrd — May 15, 2012 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

fro- You can cut a slice from anyones agenda that sounds good. Your statement seems a little desperate. You are understandably upset with your party (Libertarian?--Republican?--Wicca?) and the failure of Libertarianism to take hold with more people. Evidently Ron Paul isn't as..sincerely fired up as his base thought. Letting a few incidents sway his candidacy.

No doubt he's many many more times financially secure than when he launched his "campaign". :)))

The delegate count is relatively strong...his base is fired up, (what Romney would give for some passionate unruly followers)...

fro...Are you feeling like you've been had...Once Again?!?

I tried to tell you guys.....

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- In your honor.

Awful early in the day isn't it?

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As I've tried to explain to roger and others the Republicans are using backdoor methods to prohibit abortion. I'm amazed by those who refuse to look at this. Where are the Libertarians? Where are the Independents? Where are those who stand up for individual freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Here is a GOP Mississippi lawmaker bragging about outlawing abortion in his state.

This guy, his demeanor, his lack of empathy and misplaced passion represent today's Republican to a tee.

**Bubba Carpenter, Mississippi GOP Lawmaker, Lauds Potential Return Of 'Coat Hanger' Abortions**

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


when political hack attacks are filtered out of the equation, we're left with the reality that europe tried and failed at what obama is intending for the usa.

the hard facts, reinforced everywhere, is that working people will refuse to have their money taken by force (of intimidation, harassment, or federal fiat). hence, 'taxation without representation' - except if you work in oregon and live in washington.

if you want MY very-hard-earned money, you better have a reason that trumps my own needs. and supporting somebody who could, if not for personal choices, do it themselves, isn't one of them. temporary help up..? yes. 'welfare' is a safety net, not a support system.

if government doesn't stop confiscating worker's pay, eventually workers stop working. as thatcher said, social programs are great, until you run out of other people's money.

as for the closing of that steel plant and romney, the country allowed dumping of Chinese steel into the country, and that destroyed the plant AND it's jobs. it was closed *after* romney left the mgmt company, btw.

DeeLittle — May 15, 2012 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Fro.......

Ron Paul is not suspending his presidential campaign. That's the message his staff pushed Tuesday following the candidate's declaration that he won't spend any additional funds to campaign in new states.

But campaign manager Jesse Benton clearly stated that the hopes of Paul winning the Republican presidential nomination are officially over.

"We recognize that Gov. [Mitt] Romney has what is very likely to be an insurmountable delegate lead," Benton told reporters on a conference call Tuesday. "And we acknowledge that we're very, very unlikely to be able to block that nomination."

hawkeye — May 15, 2012 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One thing I can count on is your fine Humor...Made me smile but like I've said before... Ya fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me... Unless you have the media and big money in your back pocket.. Obama is like a life coach or a minister..People are attracted to such people because they are not strong enough to do what it takes themselves..

Very well said and we haven't heard the end of Solyndra... Obama is personally involved in this corrupt endeavor.. Oh the chinese dumped millions of solar panels into the market, but Obama pushed regulators to look past this for his green energy plan. The only green energy plan that I know is cost effective is the steer manure I put on my garden, and it doesn't need gov't assistance..

vanwadreamer — May 15, 2012 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Peace and personal liberty is out of touch with today's America? Now, that is a sad statement.


it's only 'out of touch' with today's america-haters. unfortunately, that's the white house.

first, there can't be peace without strength. that is the most basic lesson humans have learned since we started making tools. cut back the military? end money to keep our arsenal the best? plan on being attacked. history is a repeating lesson on this.

personal liberty...that's a hard one after 9/11. we DO want to be protected. our work HAS thwarted another major attack.

where the line is drawn...? this one american is willing to push it as far as publicly-accessible information being available to the gvt. including google data about the inside of our houses? no. i would be willing to have the courts rule on it, just like they've done since searches haves required warrants. but we need to be honest and have those rules reflect today's realities. we may NOT have 'probable cause'. but we MAY have 'actionable information' which should be allowed but strictly controlled so it doesn't become one more tool of the government to intimidate citizens. again, the courts are our best arbitrators, but perhaps specially-trained in anti-terrorism.

DeeLittle — May 15, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

All these candidates running for offices......

***Anybody seen KIM KENDALL?***

hawkeye — May 15, 2012 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Dee, nice to see ya!
I am more in tune with the WH politics than with the other side. Do you think I hate America?

luvithere — May 15, 2012 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hey right backatcha!

as for 'hate america'....the first lady of the united states has said, 'this is the first time in my adult life that i'm proud of my country'.

so, it's your call. you agree with her...yeah. i guess you might.

DeeLittle — May 15, 2012 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


wow! such an honor :)

DeeLittle — May 15, 2012 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Steve Vaillancourt, New Hampshire Lawmaker, Ejected From House After Nazi Salute**

A Republican lawmaker in New Hampshire was physically removed from the state House of Representatives on Tuesday afternoon after he made a Nazi salute during a contentious debate about limiting what is considered valid voter identification.

Rep. Steve Vaillancourt (R-Manchester) shouted, "Sieg Heil" and moved his hand in the air after House Speaker William O'Brien (R-Mont Vernon) restricted what he could address during a floor debate on an amendment to a state voter ID bill.

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

They're baaaack! :(

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Republican Presidential/Vice Presidential hopeful GOP Icon Donald Trump could still throw his hat in the ring. This guy is a class act and would be a fine choice for a Romney VP.

nailingit — May 15, 2012 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*You've got to be kidding! These guys just don't get it.*

**Senate Republicans Gird For Fresh Debt Ceiling Fight**

WASHINGTON -- Despite the risk of economic and political fallout, Senate Republicans Tuesday said they're standing with House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) in picking another fight with Democrats over tying spending cuts to a debt ceiling increase this year.

During remarks at a fiscal summit in Washington, Boehner warned he will require that matching spending cuts be tied to raising the debt limit when it hits its cap late this year.

More moderate Republicans avoided saying whether they supported another fight on the issue of cost offsets, though they hoped the tenor of this year's debate would be less toxic than last year's.

"I think that was unsettling to the American people, the markets and made it very difficult for essential federal government programs to operate efficiently," said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine).

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who announced that she is retiring this year in part because of her frustration with the partisan gridlock in Congress, said last year's debt fight is still having negative repercussions.

"Policy-induced uncertainty is at historic levels because of the fiasco surrounding that debate on the debt ceiling," Snowe said.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 8:02 a.m.

By all means, let the pissing match begin!

hawkeye — May 16, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is a honor but until we get a booyah from Nail it ain't good enough...I recently read where our president has now played 90 rounds of Golf since he took office.. Really 90 rounds. Now I like to play as well but I've only played 42 rounds since he took office according to my USGA handicap record...
Here is a short list of his major acomplishments so far in 3 plus years.
DEBT- He hasn't even set a budget
DEFICIT-15 trillion
UNEMPLOYMENT 8.1 but really 9.6
DIVISIVENESS..pitting race and wealth agaisnt everyone else
DEMORALIZATION..Dumbing dow some Americans
SOLYNDRA.Well enough said, he pushed for government loans.
FAST AND FURIOUS..still hasn't fired Holder or himself ha ha
8 handicap

vanwadreamer — May 16, 2012 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My God why did this idiot get elected twice. Once was crazy enough. How easily some forget we were losing 750,000 jobs per month, gas prices were higher and Bush was throwing money at the banks.

Some actually believe Obama has made it worse.

Some can't see we are better off now than 2008.

Some will never get it.

And our country is the worse for it.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- The golf thing is just the latest nonsense from right wing media.

My God man, think and research for yourself!

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We tend to forget why Republicans have turned their messaging to social issues. They fail so miserably on Nation Security.

A reminder. 9/11 happened on this guys watch. You would think he would care about the "evildoer's" whereabouts. This is how Republicans govern. Let's not forget.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A reminder.

He cared.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We can all believe what we want, but the facts remain, this is a Failed presidency... Wastefull, Unpatriotic, Devisive and unaccountable. You need to pull your head out and move forward or else you'll get run over out there my friend. We can all learn and should learn from the past, thats why this president has failed so teribly..It's right in front of him yet he hasn't done anything, to lead our country out of it's current fix. He is not a leader... Current millitary approval ratings far less the the public approval ratings ...Lowest of any president..

vanwadreamer — May 16, 2012 at noon ( | suggest removal

Oh my, 90 rounds of golf.... How horrible.

Lets break that down, shall we?

Just for fun, let's say Obama has been in office a little over three years but we can round it off to three. That means 30 rounds per year. At 52 weeks in a year, it looks like about one game every two weeks.

OH MY GAWD !!! ONE GAME OF GOLF EVERY TWO WEEKS??? UNHEARD OF. That is unless you are a casual golfer. Sounds like the President is getting some good exercise every other week.

That the stupidest thing I have ever heard, so he plays golf every two weeks, what's the problem, you jealous?

hawkeye — May 16, 2012 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OH BTW, VanWa,

How many days off do you get every week?

How many do you think he gets?

How many hours a day do you think he works?

Do you get to go home from your job?

seriously, stupid statement!

hawkeye — May 16, 2012 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm betting most of those rounds were in DC. I'm also betting the course was closed to others, each player had their own cart and forecaddies to locate balls out of the fairways. Instead of taking 5 hours as a round does at a muni course, I'm betting 2 hrs per round max, unless one player was a real hacker. Walking might bump it up to 3 hours per round.

90 hours per year, what's that? Couple of hours per week? Hmmm...

mrd — May 16, 2012 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dude, seriously stupid statement. I get no days "OFF" every week as I own my own business. He gets as many as he takes for "VACA" and golfing...really stupid ....He doesn't work any more hours than I do as we all need about the same sleep and I study for my job many a day and night as I'm at home.. it's the type of job I have. It's not an 8-5 punch the time clock, DUDE!We also have a home office and conduct business there as well after "HRS".
OBTW is he worrying about my two sons in Afganistan everyday day and night like we are... I doubt it, He is worring about his own family...You didn't write that but I thought I would add it. Also my two sons want to know why there over there fighting, both in special forces and for what... There is no difinitive mission or goals... I know first hand so who is the stupid one. I think Hawk.. maybe you should walk in our shoes.. My wife thinks your statement and ilk are Dumb$$$.. Good day and go Pss up a rope with your statements of uneducated thoughts.

vanwadreamer — May 16, 2012 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sure thing vanwa,

I'll bet you (and I'd win) that he doesn't get any time "off" either. There is no down time when you are the President. Even when you are playing golf, it's still "work".

And you know what, I'll bet he IS worrying about your kids in Afghanistan, and everybody else's kids as well. You want to know why we are fighting there? Ask the previous administration. It was Bush's response to 9/11, now it seems impossible to leave. Maybe soon. And what does this have to do with the President playing golf?

So you own your own business, good for you. It's the life you choose, you make your own hours. DUDE! Go piss up your own rope, although I don't see how that relevant.

hawkeye — May 16, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa-*Also my two sons want to know why there over there fighting, both in special forces and for what... There is no difinitive mission or goals..*

Special Forces? Really? Good for them!

Tell them I said to quit crying to their parents about their mission statement. (hard to believe a couple in our special forces feel this need. Please re-direct their thinking Dad so they can be clear headed on the battlefield. It's what a good parent would do)

Tell them I said to respect their Commander in Chief regardless of race color or creed. (I'm guessing the nut doesn't fall to far from the tree)

Tell them I said if they don't like it, request a transfer until they can figure things out.

Tell them I said thank you for their service.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It was a good thought Dennis! He most likely will become the latest news pundit.

**Dennis Kucinich Leaving Congress, Opts Against Running In Washington State**

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Medical Marijuana Advocates Celebrate Victory In Race For Oregon Attorney General**

Pro-pot groups have reason to celebrate: Ellen Rosenblum, a retired appellate court judge who's been vocal in her support for Oregon's medical marijuana law, beat out former federal prosecutor Dwight Holton in the race for Oregon's attorney general in a landslide victory on Tuesday night.

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 16, 2012 at 6:29 p.m.


Medical Marijuana Advocates Celebrate Victory In Race For Oregon Attorney General"

Yet you celebrate and support a President that has made an unprecedented attack on medical marijuana.

frobert — May 16, 2012 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


first, the most important stuff: thank your sons for their service to our country. special! you're a select group. the normal fighting....

obama has spent his first four years running for his second four years. nothing else. no budget since he took office... eric holder ignoring black crime while prosecuting states that exercise their constitutional rights...printing money that's literally worth less than the paper it's printed on....going on a world apology tour including bowing low to tyrants....literally locking out rhe repubs to shove a bill through the all-dem-controlled congress that we're told to 'pass...then you'll know what's in it'....just goes on and on and on.

anybody catch jh-b's press statement? she's opening an inquiry..FEDERAL..on a VERY suspiciously-sweetheart deal between the feds and some debt-collection agency on clark county defaulted home, business & property loans guaranteed by the fdic. seems this organization bought the paper for EIGHT CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, *plus got fdic to insure it for the full selling amount*. they laugh when ppl call them to negotiate the impending foreclosures. she cited one building contractor in particular who went bankrupt because they didn't care. they got their money regardless... ANNNND......

this agency is selling this foreclused land....HERE IN CLARK a company that it has ties to that's in the eastern part of the country somewhere.

sorry for sparse details, but i was going 60mps (HONEST, OFFICER!) on the 14 while i was listening.

here's a purely academic question for y'all: given that our military swears to 'protect and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign or domestic', what would they do if there was a credible threat to upholding the constitution by the white house?

DeeLittle — May 16, 2012 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — May 16, 2012 at 9:47 p.m

I'm sure they would check with you first, stock up on the tin foil.

hawkeye — May 16, 2012 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Huh, D-?

They don't call you "crazy" for nothin

hawkeye — May 17, 2012 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm thinking a bit of sarcasm was intended there, hawk.

Though I could be mistaken.

Drift — May 17, 2012 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Fox poll: Obama over Romney

The poll -- which put Obama ahead 46 percent to 39 -- paints a rosier picture for Obama than several others this week, including surveys from Rasmussen and the Washington Times that showed Romney leading by a single percentage point and one from Gallup that had the candidates in a dead heat.

The Real Clear Politics polling average has Obama ahead by 2.5 points.

The Fox News Poll -- jointly overseen by one Democratic- and one Republican-leaning firm -- surveyed 913 registered voters earlier this week. The poll had a 3 percentage point margin of error.

nailingit — May 17, 2012 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cockroach In McDonald's Hash Browns: Man Claims To Find Deep-Fried Bug (Mealbreakers)

Mealbreaker (n.): a nasty, non-edible surprise found in food while it is being eaten; often lawsuit-provoking, sometimes fabricated, always disgusting.

Reddit user LinkBoyJT posted an image Wednesday that might make your skin crawl. After ordering a McDonald's hash brown and eating most of it, he says he was startled to find what he claims was a deep-fried insect stuck to the bottom half.;=Syringe_In_Burger

nailingit — May 17, 2012 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


see that's the problem, there is no sarcasm symbol and it's difficult to show in print. I suggested one a while back {S} but it never caught on. Oh well.

hawkeye — May 17, 2012 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One of my neighbors is missing, could you check out the story and let the police know if you have seen him.

frobert — May 17, 2012 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

..hmmm..... obama's publishing company hawks him as an author who ' president of harvard's law review...born in kenya....

the wrong-rev wright says he was offered 150k to stop preaching until the 2008 election was over....

..just who, again, paid for o's education, and what were those grades, again....?

"most transparant administration in history" indeed.

DeeLittle — May 17, 2012 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

it's obvious. You dislike Obama. It'd be nice to see you offer up a specific example of something he's done, something that has been done over the objection of the Congress that ticks you off. Offer up something Obama has done unilaterally of the Congress, or you're little else than some right-wingnut talking head that I dismiss as political BS.

From previous posts, I believe you've griped about the state providing your meds. How's that working for you? I assume you feel that's Obama's fault also, A hard working, responsible citizen, such as yourself, can't even afford your meds and have to get them on my dime, sounds like a perfect example of a fantastic health care delivery system, one that no other country in the developed world emulates. If you think it sucks now, wait until the Republicans send you a voucher for health care and meds that won't cover a fourth of the cost. Try going on the open market-my wife and I do-to buy health insurance. We have Kaiser, it's $497/mo for each of us, and doesn't cover prescriptions at all. That's $18,000/yr (including prescriptions-she's insulin dependent) if we don't even see a doctor. Dental-forget it. How's that sound to ya? Wanna buy health insurance on the "open market"? With some stupid voucher? I think not, unless you're very rich or crazy.

How is the Ryan plan going to really "save" money? Think about it. Health care costs go up at least 5%/yr. So the total cost can't go down, but Medicare's expenditure's, with the voucher system, will go down. Who's going to make up the difference? Yea, you know. Already, House republicans have passed a budget thing that will cut SS & Medicare to pass these cuts to the military budget so it won't be cut with the "sequestered cuts" due to the super-committee's failure to resolve the debt problem. THe US will still have the dysfunctional F-22 Raptors, but you and several million of your fellow Americans will be screwed, unable to afford meds and health care. Is that what you want? Perhaps they'll let you sit in the cockpit of an F22 before you're buried.

mrd — May 17, 2012 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning, have had no chance to post this week but did want to answer Dee again. Earlier, you said WH hates America and took a quote by Michelle out of context to back up your statement. Now you even mention "born in Kenya...". Come on Dee, please tell me that you are not one of those "birthers" now, too. Let's keep a bit of rational discourse here.
As far as military goes. I hope our soldiers get back sane and uninjured, but I most certainly do not support our military actions that were put in place the last few years under false pretenses. You want to see why our budget is so screwed up? Look no further. My tax dollars supported enough of the military spending, and I rather they go towards supporting our country internally. You want to cut? Fine, but cut pentagon spending accordingly. Sick of them trying to cut where it hurts the majority of lower and middle Clara, while trying to squeeze every extra penny out to support their fat cat friends and the military.

luvithere — May 18, 2012 at 5:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

that was supposed to read "middle class" but this site is not optimized for iPad for sure. Yeesh. Switching to old fashioned desktop here, works much better.

Dee-my comments about military were not directed at you, they were a general comment to other posts.

luvithere — May 18, 2012 at 5:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — May 17, 2012 at 9:18 p.m.

" something that has been done over the objection of the Congress"

War with Libya, assassination of U.S. citizens abroad, unprecedented crackdown on medical marijuana facilities... just to name a few.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- I hope voters remember this November.

**House Endorses Continued War In Afghanistan Despite Calls To Withdraw Troops, End Conflict**

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

These numbers are almost unbelievable. Elections have consequences.

Oust the baggers in November.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Romney commercial emphasizes some of the same policy ideas the candidate highlights on the stump, promising tax cuts that "reward job creators, not punish them."

Psst, hey Mitt, the "job creators" already get tax breaks, if fact, they get a tax credit right now, they just have to actually hire someone to get it. The rich "job-creators" are already getting tax breaks. Where's the jobs, Mitt?

Overseas, you say. Corporate taxes too high, you say. The corporate tax rate is among the highest in the world, you say. The effective tax rate, what corporations actually pay, is among the LOWEST in the world, you don't say, however. Of all industrialized, western nations, only Iceland collects a smaller percent of tax revenues from corporations than does the US. Norway collects 8 times as much.

Folks, the Rep & tea-bagger's economic picture only looks good if you're viewing it in your private jet. They're right, the deficit needs fixing-fast. But their plans are going to hurt a hell of a lot of people, and benefit approx 1% of us, and you can guess who those folks are.

mrd — May 18, 2012 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Both of our boys don't cry to mommy or daddy..They actually get to see first hand the actual horrors of war and the side effects of war and injuries "both Mental and Physical"on everyone, not only soldiers.. And yes they "Respect" all of their comanders as that's how they were raised. They have brains too and opinions too, it's called freedom of speach and when they were able to come home for a week before Christmas it was great to hear them speak about what there doing in Afganistan and how the people treat them and vice versa. It's that freedom of speach they both value so much, thats why we get places like this to share thoughts...The best thing is they are both leaving Afganistan at months end, then cycling back to the US.. They will be leaving the Army late summer after serving there duty... We will be excited to see them back healthy...

vanwadreamer — May 18, 2012 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nail, Both of our boys don't cry to mommy or daddy..*

Good to know vanwa.

*We will be excited to see them back healthy...*

May you have a great reunion.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 14, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.

Also see his interview on Democracy Now

"the idea that stimulus failed, it was never tried. Take a look at the actual track of government spending in the United States, and take into account the state and local governments as well as the federal, and what you see is, far from actually having a big increase in spending, we’ve actually had much lower. We’ve had austerity in the face of a recession, in a way that we have never had before since the 1930s. So it’s actually been the reverse.

And look, we’ve just done an experiment with what happens if you cut government spending sharply in the face of a depressed economy. That’s what’s been going on in Europe. It’s been going on in an extreme form. I’ve been saying, actually, we’ve basically had a large-scale human experiment, the kind that is banned under Princeton University rules, going on on the people of Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. And the results are clear: it’s disastrous. It leads to very, very sharp economic contractions. Here, we’re having a minor version, though still terrible, of the Great Depression; there, they’re having a full-on replay of the Great Depression."

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal!!! So good to see you! It's been quite some time. You have been missed by many in the forum.

I wasn't around then, but didn't Austerity measures bring us The Great Depression & Spending/Investment lead us out?

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal- Great interview with Krugman. I wish Obama would make him part of his "inner circle". Something to also consider when people criticize the stimulus, (I don't think it was mentioned) is that 40% of it went for tax cuts.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As much as twenty four year old males being know it alls.

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Might be a case of subarusyndrome.

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, all. I just had an idea that I wanted to run by you.

There's a lot of chatter here about political issues at the national level.

At the same time, I've heard from a few folks who would like to see more local discussion and more local issues. They feel like the national chatter drowns out the talk about local stories and issues.

So what if I was to create a separate forum specifically for national issues? That way, this de facto default forum might get back to its local roots, and the other forum could serve as a home for discussion about national news.

How would you feel about that idea?


Matt Wastradowski — May 18, 2012 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — May 18, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.

I'd worry more about the asinine way the C articles get fed to your Facebook page and how there aren't links back to the original site.

And there is probably room to compare the facebook requirement as something akin to the RW efforts to restrict voting rights by making claims about a non-existent issue of voter fraud.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

crazytrain — May 18, 2012 at 12:50 p.m

You mean like this?

"next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims' and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn's early my
country 'tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?"
He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water

E. E. Cummings

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt, Semantics: change the title of this forum from OPEN to LOCAL to accurately address the suggestion you are making.

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well quoted Basil!

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

basil, I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about our official Facebook page? Or through comments? I don't follow.

and soapbox, thanks for that idea. If I did that, I'd still create a national forum, but that would help distinguish the forums a bit more. Good call.


Matt Wastradowski — May 18, 2012 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt Wastradowski (Columbian Staff) — May 18, 2012 at 2:48 p.m.
basil, I'm a bit confused.

Go to the facebook page for the Columbian. Click on a story title.

many go to
or back to facebook.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.

Glad you liked: the formatting got trashed, though.

It should have looked like how it shows at

Maybe we'll find out who he thinks is a sock puppet, and whatever it is else he's claiming.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt- National political issues often intertwine with local. People discuss local issues freely here and do so often. [ref. JHB, Cathy McMorris & others this week]

You guys are always creating new forums for one or two that say they feel constricted and want the entire forum to focus on a single issue. i.e. C-TRAN, Technical, etc. (most likely these are the same folks that have requested additional forums in the past, right? :))How are those columns working out traffic wise?

Do you think one-more-category added to the multitude of unused categories will make a difference? How do you speak of our State Congress/Gov etc. people and not go national. The premise seems a little ridiculous in light of the sparse traffic the basement receives.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wasn't around then, but didn't Austerity measures bring us The Great Depression & Spending/Investment lead us out?

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.

Krugman talks about how FDR's 'alphabet of programs' drove the economy out of the depression. Steady progress except for a kerfluffle when there was a short term cut in spending before the war. And then we had the government buying and controlling virtually every market.

I don't think is was so much 'austerity' that caused the Depression as lack of control, esp the stock market and banks.

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar......

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know what they say about history...

It's doomed to repeat itself...

...and we can learn not to repeat it.

No wonder it's confusing! :)

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 3:21 p.m

Can't argue with Krugman, after all he is the one that predicted the housing collapse, oh wait a second, it wasn't him it was Ron Paul, Krugman thought the housing bubble was a good thing.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I really think the economy will turn around on it's own, left alone since that is the nature of the beast. However, we have to put controls back on Wall Street and bankers to keep them from putting us back into a state of default in the name of profits. This is imperative.

hawkeye — May 18, 2012 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That's odd, basil. I clicked every link that I've posted this week, and all go to the right place. And you're the first to tell me that the posts go back to Facebook. That's a head-scratcher.

And nailingit, it's a mix of a few things that led me to float the idea.

One, there's a lot of chatter about the Presidential race and Congress -- and not all of it comes back to Clark County or local issues.

And I've talked to posters who feel like talking about local issues is tough, given the stream of posts that touch on national issues. They feel like the local stuff gets lost in the posts.

I'm not sure if another forum would make a difference, which is why I floated the idea today. :-) My thinking is ... maybe.

Let's say there's a forum dedicated to, say, the Presidential race. That's been a hot topic of discussion here for some time, with very few local ties. Maybe most posts make their way into that forum, opening this forum up for more local discussions. And new posters might come into the fold if they feel like they aren't shouting into the ether.

I'm just seeing if this change might not help make the discussions easier to follow and make it easier for new users to come into the fold. Right now, it's a free-for-all, and I'm just wondering if there are ways to make it easier to follow and get engaged.

Matt Wastradowski — May 18, 2012 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Best bets links to;=0ebecd4291&e;=b06f2c69ba

also see: -
The story of the race to become Washington state's U.S. representative from the 3rd District (located in Southwest Washington). This story is told...

" talking about local issues is tough,"

Threaded comments are your friend. Something Facebook can't do either.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think your onto something. Sounds good. However, please give some thought on how to prevent the local topic from falling down the list. Perhaps if there was a weekly update as now, with 2 forums per week, one local & one national?

It's appreciated you & The C provide this. I know it ain't free, and times are kinda rough all over.

But captcha still sucks.

mrd — May 18, 2012 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt- Just reminding you the paper literally has 10 other forum categories. You even have a forum for suggesting forum categories!:)!

Another category, if used, would just create one-more-reason for one or two to remind everyone to "stay on task".

I am reminded of a saying. To quote the great prophet lian tigni, "Dost the Queen desire yet another throne to relieve herself?" ref. 'The Skrow of lian tigni. pg. 421 [International version]

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 3:34 p.m.

Krugman 2006

Ron Paul 2011

Maybe Ron had a good teacher.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, Ron Paul was talking in 2001.

Krugman was talking about a coming bubble in 2002.

And RP has his reasoning wrong in the 2001, so his 'prediction' misses the boat.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.

Ron Paul September 2003

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

basil, that link should have gone to the URL that you provided. That was correct. And the other story should have gone back to the Storify document on That worked for me. Did that kick you back to Facebook, too?

mrd, thanks for the feedback. That's a good idea, and I'll keep it in mind if I end up making the switch.

And nailingit, I can't very well admonish you to stay on topic when there's not one particular topic to stick to. :-) You have, however, uncovered my diabolical plot to break the threads into their own forums so I *can* warn people to stay on topic. (I know some might think otherwise, but I promise I'm kidding.)

And I'm honored that you're invoking a queen in reference to me. I might have expected to be equated to a ruthless dictator, so to be compared to royalty is an honor. :-) But, beyond that, I don't follow. Another forum wouldn't boost my own ego, help me exert control, or anything like that. It would just hopefully make discussion easier to follow. And, for that matter, I'm just floating the idea. I've been wrong before, so I do appreciate honest feedback; it's going to help me make a better decision, whether that's to make a change or keep things the way they arre.

Matt Wastradowski — May 18, 2012 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:17 p.m

His spot on prediction "missed the boat" because Krugman didn't like his reasoning? I would say Krugman "missed the boat"

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt- A misunderstanding in text translation.

"Dost the Queen desire yet another throne to relieve herself?"

The King Dames version reads...

"Dost the Queen desire yet another golden throne in which to relieve herself?"

A three word diff, but speaks directly to clarification.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Matt, how about you change the format of the main page to list the forum subjects across the page instead of running down the page to find the subject you need.

Oh, and get rid of the damn captcha

hawkeye — May 18, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Make us one with FaceBook! Avatar equality! Make anonymous synonymous with fairnonymous.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt- I suggested the "local forum" over the current "open forum" because when you determine that the forum is going to have a topic, it is no longer OPEN. Make sure you don't forget forums for: hunting, fishing, baking, gardening, family history, singing, children book writing, homemaking, travel, shopping, health, wellness, vacation and retirement - that way you will have most topics covered for the few who are feeling "left out" of the current forum flow.

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, Great avatar today!

soapbox4u — May 18, 2012 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 4:17 p.m.

Krugman's statement in 2002 was that a housing bubble was good as it would offset declining business spending and "stimulate" the economy.

What is clear is that Krugman's theories on stimulating the economy are not only wrong but dangerous.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As others have noted, both today and previously, once a forum drops from sight it's gone - no one scrolls to the bottom of page 1, much less the next pages.

If you can do like hawkeye suggests, that may help. But most of the "Special forums" have very few people posting - everyone tends to come back to the main forum. So, in my opinion, you're just revisiting what hasn't worked in the past.

The REAL solution is to allow people from this forum to post anonymously to the articles currently reserved for facebook users. I use both versions, and even with our ongoing squabbles here, they're (mostly) more civilized than what goes down over there. So you can toss the excuse about "people being afraid to speak their minds" - the articles with the most comments have some of the nastiest arguments.

And will you please can that "Stay on task" remark? It was bad enough when Mr. Civic Activist kept spouting it, but when Lew Waters started in too....

roger — May 18, 2012 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 18, 2012 at 5:27 p.m.

If Lou and Matt had more business sense they would allow only Colombian subscribers to comment on the stories. Facebook users don't pay the bills.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


before proceeding further, i'd like clarification of the term 'local'.

DeeLittle — May 18, 2012 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Matt, if you make one more forum, then you have to make sure one can scroll to it without having to go through 100 open forums as one cannot find the others.
I also doubt that it will work too well; after a short while everybody will be back on main forum, arguing with each other and making up the next week. That's what we do.

We never stick to one topic, we can go with one topic for a day for sure, but somehow we tend to wander aimlessly in the desert at times. Which is half the fun. So I am nto sure why so embody would call this a closed forum, topics are always up for commenters to post and get started.

And yes, we are actually much nicer to each other and use fewer trashy words and nasty sarcastic comments than the people over on the Facebook side. Boy, they do get nasty.

And welcome back Basil. I have missed you.

I seem to also be wandering aimlessly with this comment, so I need dinner now me thinks.

luvithere — May 18, 2012 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 5:08 p.m

Yeah, that's the conservative tilt / slant/ reading ////

He was comparing it to the NASDAQ bubble; that the economy would 'need' a similar bubble to continue the expansion it had been doing.

It is that 'unlimited' growth trope some attempt to claim is logical.

RP made a prediction, but his reasoning is / was unsound. The 'why' he uses isn't correct.

Dr. Krugman's analysis in '06 was correct. His '02 statement was also correct.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.


If you, or other RP sycophants have some data that support RP's claims, data that actually proves his claims, then we'd be seeing it now, wouldn't we?

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

before proceeding further, i'd like clarification of the term 'local'.

DeeLittle — May 18, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.

Anything inside your little tin hat.

Vancouver/Portland area.

hawkeye — May 18, 2012 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.

You are not untitled to your own facts. Ron Paul predicted the housing crisis and the financial collapse. Paul Krugman indicated that the housing bubble would stimulate the economy. The housing and financial markets did collapse.

Can you bring any facts to the table that Paul's reasoning was flawed? Can you bring any facts that Krugman didn't make the following statement in 2002?

" To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble."

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:03 p.m

Let's unpack two separate arguments here:

The first is Dr. Krugman's statement: He's not advocating a housing bubble. He is a very prolific writer; find where he has said anything similar, anything that shows that was what he was advocating. Anything. Bring it.

And why won't you be able to? Because, one quote, out of context, is your, and some other rw sycophants, full case.

So, who is making up facts?

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:03 p.m

The second is Ron Paul's astuteness in predicting a housing market crash.

Give us his list of reasons. That is his support for the prediction.

Now, look at what happened between his 'prediction' and when the housing bubble burst.

Two separate columns. His 'reasons' don't correlate with what has happened.

Lots of people were predicting a crash. Look up James Fallows work.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 8:23 p.m.

Paul's predictions were realized, yet you claim it doesn't count because you disagree with him.

Krugman's suggestions proved to be a disaster. Krugman's current theory that we can spend our way out of debt, will prove just as detrimental.

You still refuse to bring any facts, and deny any factual sources that I bring to the table.

You need to get back on your game.

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


why is this news just in seattle, and not also here in clark county?

> At-home bakers hail state's new
> Cottage Food Act
> The Cottage Food Act of Washington
> would let small, home-based
> entrepreneurs sell cakes, cookies,
> jams, jellies and other so-called
> "low-risk" foods without requiring
> that they rent commercial kitchen
> space.

DeeLittle — May 18, 2012 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Joan Orie Melvin, Pennsylvania Supreme Court Justice, Charged With Campaign Corruption**

The high court relieved her of judicial and administrative duties Friday, but she remains a Supreme Court justice, on the payroll with a $195,000 salary and full benefits. The court also ordered Orie Melvin's Pittsburgh office sealed to secure records, files and equipment that are property of the court.

The charges come two months after her sister Republican state Sen. Jane Orie was convicted of 14 counts of theft of services, conflict of interest and forgery charges. Orie is scheduled to be sentenced in June, and her attorney has said in court filings that she will resign before then.

The absence of Orie Melvin, a Republican, leaves the court evenly divided between the parties, with review of the politically charged legislative reapportionment matter potentially returning before the court. The Supreme Court in January by a 4-3 vote threw out the last set of district maps and the reapportionment commission has not yet had a final vote on a new version.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*There was a time when Republicans would never stoop to these levels, at least in public, let alone Republican leadership allowing/endorsing it. Just flat out pathetic.*

*One of many differences I've noticed about the Dems & RePubs that post to this forum. I have yet to see a Republican harshly (or at all for that matter) criticize their leaders, wrongdoings, or platforms. A stark contrast from the Dems.
It brings to mind the urban definition of a Lemming.*

**Ken Bennett, Arizona Secretary Of State, Fans Birther Flames, Threatens To Keep Obama Off Ballot**

In 2010, before the release of Obama's long-form birth certificate, the flood of birther activity became so distracting that Gov. Linda Lingle (R) signed a bill allowing state officials to ignore requests for copies of the document.

Bennett even admitted that Hawaiian officials told him they were "tired of all the requests," but the secretary of state didn't appear deterred.

Bennett's move is just the latest birther bustle in Arizona, which has been a hotbed for Obama eligibility conspiracy theories over the past few years. Clamor over a bill meant to address the issue was temporarily silenced last year when Gov. Jan Brewer (R) vetoed the measure, calling it "a bridge too far."

Birthers returned with a vengeance this year, however, first emerging with an "investigation" carried out by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who had determined that there was reasonable cause to believe that Obama's birth certificate was a forgery.

In the subsequent legislative session, a state GOP lawmaker reintroduced her failed birther bill.

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

An absolute classic!

nailingit — May 18, 2012 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.

Repetition doesn't make an unsupported claim more true.

Try watching RP's rambling speech, list his 'causes', then compare his claims to what happened.

IF you have any other examples of what you say Dr. Krugman said, then you, or other RP sycophants, would have brought them forward.

And your lot hasn't. Because the only way your lot can make that claim is by using half a quote and some misdirection.

I see your game is the same.

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've been off my feed for a while but I'm fine as frog hair now.

Matt, I asked for the CRC forum to be moved up a few weeks ago and you said you couldn't move it without losing the comments. OK. Go ahead and move it up anyway. This subject is going to be worthy of it's own forum for a long time, at least another few years.

As a side note I want to comment on the drivers C-Tran hires for the vans that take commuters over the I-5 bridge. In the last 3 months I have been cut off by these guys. They think they have that tag that says I must give way. Well these vans don't. This one bozo thought it was OK to cut my margin of safety down by cutting over to the third lane. NO signal, no nothing. I bet his passengers had to get some suits cleaned. We were moving at 50 MPH and he came right on over like he owned the road, right before the bridge. I used to drive cab and if I ever got a report like this I would have been fired. He had enough room behind me to get in the lane safely but he was in a hurry and decided to put me and his passengers in harms way by this foolish diving display. Time to retest some of the drivers.

Who's pay for these vans anyway. What or who is so important that they need a small van anyway? Let them ride the bus. That's what we pay for. On the surface it looks a little elitist if you ask me.

Another question comes to mind. If C-Tran is allowed to run over the bridge, why doesn't Tri-Met provide some of the service also? It seems that they would do this to augment our costs and maybe put them in a better light.

JohnCasey — May 19, 2012 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Politicians have a reputation for being slick and untrustworthy, sometimes rightfully warranted. But this bagger 2010 congress lowers the bar considerably. Dirtbags.

**House Violates Deal With Obama**

WASHINGTON -- The House passed a defense budget Friday that exceeds the deal cut by Congress and President Barack Obama last summer, and that would have to be paid for with cash taken from poverty programs, health care and the federal workforce.

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — *What or who is so important that they need a small van anyway?*

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


that article pretty much sums up the House's MO now. They have no serious intentions of reducing the deficit, just whacking money moving down the economic ladder. This budget bill they passed actually provides more to the Pentagon that they asked for! And funds things that aren't DOD priorities! Do you smell pork? Sorry tea-baggers, but you folks have been had.

And this-
"We increase the spending for defense due to the priorities that we feel are most important and the constitutional requirement we have to provide for the common defense," Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon (R-Calif.) said. "But we will cut in other areas of the budget so that we comply fully with the deficit reduction act."

Is anyone naive enough to think these liars are funding the DOD to satisfy a constitutional requirement "to provide for the common defense"? What about "promoting the general welfare"?

mrd — May 19, 2012 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 18, 2012 at 10:06 p.m.

You are acting like a 5 year old, covering your ears and screaming "I can't hear you".

Fact 1, Ron Paul predicted the housing and financial crisis.

Fact 2, Paul Krugman encouraged the housing bubble.

You have yet to bring any facts to counter the facts I have laid out.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Fact 1. RP made a prediction. He's made many. What you nor any other of his sycophants haven't done is show that the causes he claimed actually were the causes.

Predicting that a cake will fail to bake correctly because the oven isn't set to the correct temp doesn't mean the prediction was correct when the baker added too much milk.

Fact 2. Look at the sources who make that claim.

Anyone notice that they can only bring one piece of 'evidence'?" Dr. Krugman is quite prolific; many interviews, many written sources. Why, if that was his considered opinion, was it only said once?

Look at the full context. The people making that claim are basically attempting a swiftboat.

Then ask why the only ones making that claim don't show the full source.

Your 'facts', it is up to you to bring the support.

C. Hitchens:
Forgotten were the elementary rules of logic, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.

first of all, you continually misuse the term "sycophant", I am a Paul supporter, seeing as I do not know him it is impossible to be a sycophant. Your argument that Paul's prediction coming true doesn't mean he was correct is nonsensical at best and pathetic at worst.

"Fact 2. Look at the sources who make that claim."
The source is Krugman himself.

" Why, if that was his considered opinion, was it only said once?"
Because he said it.

"Then ask why the only ones making that claim don't show the full source."

I posted a link to the "full source" and used the text that proved my point.

You have yet to provide a single fact to support your argument that Dr. Paul was wrong or that pseudo Nobel Laureate Krugman didn't mean what he wrote.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey ya'll, don't forget;

Maybe if you are lucky, Bayner will get drunk and cry for you. Remember, it's ONLY $2500 to be able to talk to him in person. What a thrill for those of you who would get a thrill out of something like this. Personally, he makes my skin crawl.

hawkeye — May 19, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sy·co·phant noun
\-fənt also -ˌfant\\ˈsi-kə-fənt also ˈsī- & -ˌfant\

Definition of SYCOPHANT

: a servile self-seeking flatterer
— sycophant adjective
See sycophant defined for English-language learners »
See sycophant defined for kids »
Examples of SYCOPHANT

His press conference on January 11 was all aimed toward a single moment. The President was at his rostrum at the Élysée, with a crowd of courtiers, journalists, and sycophants herded behind a velvet rope. One reporter was allowed across the rope to put the same question, in exactly the same words, as he had put when Chirac had been nearing the end of his first term: Would he perhaps consider standing for a further five years? —Julian Barnes, New York Review, 29 Mar. 2007

Latin sycophanta slanderer, swindler, from Greek sykophantēs slanderer, from sykon fig + phainein to show — more at fancy
First Known Use: 1575
Related to SYCOPHANT

Synonyms: apple-polisher, bootlicker, brownnoser, fawner, flunky (also flunkey or flunkie), lickspittle, suck-up, toady
See Synonym Discussion at parasite
Rhymes with SYCOPHANT

adamant, commandant, complaisant, confidant, confidante, cormorant, corposant, Corybant, covenant, dilettante, disenchant, gallivant, hier...
Learn More About SYCOPHANT

Thesaurus: All synonyms and antonyms for "sycophant"
Spanish-English Dictionary: Translation of "sycophant"

Next Word in the Dictionary: sycophantic
Previous Word in the Dictionary: sycophancy
All Words Near: sycophant
Seen & Heard

What made you want to look up sycophant? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible). A statement from the fro-ster. *I am a Paul supporter, seeing as I do not know him it is impossible to be a sycophant.* The C...of course!

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 12:25 p.m

Mulberry bush....

*"Your argument that Paul's prediction coming true doesn't mean he was correct is nonsensical at best and pathetic at worst."*

Maybe I should use smaller words if that is how you think I framed my discussion....

He wasn't correct because he reasons he claimed would cause it were not what caused it. Lots of people predicted a bust of the housing bubble; his speech rambled on for several minutes. List what he uses for reasons. Show us that those reasons were, in fact, actual causes.

And that is why you attempt to miss-frame my argument; because there is no data to support your claim.

*" The source is Krugman himself."*

Let's try this again: Show us the source. You, we, all reading participants will note that it is an edited quote.

Look at more than they show you.

Now, look at WHO is making that claim. What do they gain by not showing you the whole?

Now, look at WHO is making that claim and notice that that edited quote is the ONLY instance they can come up with.

Again, look at WHO is doing that editing. What do they gain by not showing you the whole?

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk- I think it's a given Boehner will get sauced. It would be fun to attend and ask him about growing up in his dad's bar. Any self serving story seems to get John all worked up.

No doubt he will be surrounded by apple polishers, boot lickers & brownnosers!

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.

If you look at my post yesterday I linked to the original article written by Krugman.

**You** are the one making claims you can't backup, and you once again are becoming a waste of my time.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Andy Gipson, Mississippi Lawmaker, Won't Apologize For Citing Bible Passage Calling For Gays' Death**

The Mississippi state lawmaker who cited a Bible passage on Facebook calling for gay men to be "put to death" has taken to the social networking site again to refuse to apologize for the remark.

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.

You did notice that Dr. Krugman actually is citing somebody else.....


Dr. Krugman is talking about how Greenspan was reacting, not providing a possible policy.

And, as I've noted before, you and fellow sycophants quote one part. Example :
frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.

Nice try, almost as good as some Fox headlines.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since there has been a lot of talk on the Facebook side of the fence about same-sex marriage:

Did you know that part of the military appropriations bill recently passed by the House has an amendment discussing that?

"One would ban performing gay marriages on any facility owned by the military",0,2945743.story

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 1:39 p.m.

Reynolds v. United States, is among the worst rulings ever handed down, it gives the government the authority to regulate marriage based on the standards in place at the founding of this country. What many people want to deny is that gay marriage and polygamy are inseparably linked. Get the government out of the marriage business.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

" inseparably linked."

Some attempt that argument. Some think same-sex marriage, as an issue, should be tied to marriage of cousins, brothers, goats.....

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Reynolds v. United States, is among the worst ... "

Putting that in a general category with Dred_Scott_v._Sandford and Plessy v. Ferguson is fairly offensive.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.

Are goats consenting adults?

As far as your other examples, why should the government have any say?

What is at issue is can the government regulate marriage based on "moral" grounds.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 2:48 p.m.

How is it offensive, do you advocate putting people in prison for their religious beliefs?

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"How is it offensive..."

"..among the worst .."

You can't be that thick......

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In my newly founded religion, children who improperly use their fork will forfeit a fingertip to the carving knife.

Can't go to jail since it is my religious duty to do the carving.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.

I advocate equality, I don't believe that we can pick and choose who is "equal". The problem with you liberals is you will cry equality for one group and then cry to get another group locked up for their beliefs. Rights belong to the individual not the group.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.

Your straw man argument is weak and pathetic, infringing on someone else's rights is not protected. I am talking about consenting adults not assaulting children, but you knew that already.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In other news, Ron Paul has picked up the majority of delegates in Colorado. Now that he has a majority of delegates in 5 states he is assured a place on the first ballot at the RNC convention in Tampa.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


there are some posters who have a history...sometimes a long one.

they come and go, usually banned eventually, then come back as a new nick.

when i see one of these nicks have returned, i just 'ignore' immediately. some ppl apparently feed off of attention and get it by arguing, and my time isn't worth that little.

DeeLittle — May 19, 2012 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The righteous shall unshackle the shackled...

...and the once shackled shall loosen the shackles of the currently shackled and render them shackleless, not to be shackled again by those who are shackled. ~lian tigni~

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, I was referring to a regular van with normal seating. There were suit and ties on these commuters. The C-Van is for disabled persons. It's a truncated bus with special features. I've ridden it with one of my granddaughters.

I was complaining more about their driver but I was still surprised to see a Toyota Sienna tooling over the bridge. I see it often enough around the same time and unless C-Tran has an office over in Portland these probably are commuters.

JohnCasey — May 19, 2012 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 3:21 p.m.

No, in citing Reynolds v. you subscribe to his argument.

Which was that religion overrules civil law.

Reynolds didn't argue the law was wrong, just that religion overrules law.

If he had prevailed, then any religious belief would have to take precedence over law.

It didn't.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, what happened? No response:

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.

You did notice that Dr. Krugman actually is citing somebody else.....


Dr. Krugman is talking about how Greenspan was reacting, not providing a possible policy.

And, as I've noted before, you and fellow sycophants quote one part. Example : frobert — May 18, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.

Nice try, almost as good as some Fox headlines.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 6:31 p.m.

Under our Constitution religion does overrule civil law, when civil law puts unreasonable constraints on religion. What Reynolds ruled was that moral codes from the founding of the country could overrule religious freedom. I suggest you read the opinions and not just the Wikipedia summary.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — May 19, 2012 at 6:26 p.m.

Back when I was working, we were offered one of those vans to get to work in. I don't remember all the numbers but there had to be a minimum amount of people going all the same place and one of the group had to drive and everybody paid for the gas. They are usually based at a Fred Meyer parking lot and everybody meets there and takes the van.

hawkeye — May 19, 2012 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 6:33 p.m.
"BTW, what happened? No response:"

In all honesty you haven't posted anything worthy of a response. I could get a more coherent argument arguing with my 8 year old neighbor, and least he's funny.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 6:50 p.m.

Yet, for a day plus, until I posted the ban on same-sex marriage in military facilities, you were quite willing to engage in discussion on your claim Ron Paul predicted the housing market crash....

Interesting time to decide I wasn't "worthy of a response"...

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to mention your odious comparison of Reynolds with Dred Scott v. Sandford and Plessy v. Ferguson....

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.

wow, walk us through "Under our Constitution religion does overrule civil law, when civil law puts unreasonable constraints on religion"

That was the issue in Reynolds. Which didn't prevail.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey & hawkeye- It sounds like a car pool type method thingy somewhat kinda. It sure would beat taking the regular bus if one had to.

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It seems as though the hate spewing from the religious right has hit fever pitch ever since Barack Hussein Obama was elected President of the United States. I wonder why?

And now he condones Gay Marriage..........OHHHHHH MYYYYYY! :))))

**Shorter University's 'Personal Lifestyle Statement' Which Bans Gay Employees Leads To Faculty Exodus**

A Georgia college's controversial "personal lifestyle statement" which includes rejecting homosexuality has led to an exodus of faculty members.

Inside Higher Ed cites an anonymous survey which found that a mere 12 percent of the faculty said they planned to stay at Shorter University, a 139-year-old Baptist school located in Rome, Ga. In addition, more than two dozen staff members had already resigned before their new contracts -- which included the "pledge," condemning homosexuality, premarital sex and public drinking -- were even distributed.

Read more @

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I'm not a foreign policy expert, but why do we continue to give Israel this much $$$???*

U.S. Gives Israel $70 Million Boost for Missile Defense

The Obama administration has granted an Israeli request for an additional $70 million to fund a so-called missile defense program known as "Iron Dome." On Thursday, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Pentagon will request the funding over the next three years. The money would come on top of the more than $200 million already allocated for the system and the additional $3 billion in annual U.S. military aid.

nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I'm not a foreign policy expert, but why do we continue to give Israel this much $$$???* nailingit — May 19, 2012 at 7:54 p.m.

Also see:

House Republicans vote to gut health care programs, boost Pentagon
by Joan McCarter

"On Thursday, in a razor-thin 218-199 vote of approval, the House passed another extreme bill that is destined to die: its Sequestration Replacement Act. The budget bill overriddes steep cuts to defense spending that were set to begin in January 2013, taking the money out of food stamps, Medicaid, Meals on Wheels and a raft of programs that help the poor and elderly. The Act replaces $109 billion in defense cuts that were triggered last fall under the Budget Control Act, when the super committee failed to agree on a $1.2 trillion deficit reduction plan.
Included in the $113 billion in cuts are Medicaid programs, allowing states to drop people who would currently be eligible, including a lot children. Two of the programs that are targeted have increased insurance rates for children to unprecedented levels, but the Republicans voted to repeal money in the Affordable Care Act that has maintained Medicaid and CHIP funding, and a new program that has rewards states for connecting eligible children to coverage. While the bill overrides the automatic cuts to the Pentagon included in the Budget Control Act, it keeps the Medicare cuts that were written into the bill. Oh, and of course it zeroes out the Prevention and Public Health fund in the health care law, the Republican's solution to paying for everything from payroll tax cuts to student loan interest rate cuts."

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 7:06 p.m.

Walk you through 236 years of court cases? I could just copy paste the first amendment, but I am guessing you have read it.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


expect the rhetoric to more strident as the logic becomes irrefutable.

DeeLittle — May 19, 2012 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.


frobert — May 19, 2012 at 9:01 p.m.

wow, walk us through "Under our Constitution religion does overrule civil law, when civil law puts unreasonable constraints on religion"

Reynolds didn't prevail, so somewhere in the "236 years " you think you'd have an example to bring to the table.
That was the issue in Reynolds. Which didn't prevail.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 7:06 p.m.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since there was a debate about local and national forums, how about a near local issue caused by national events.

National events further facilitated by some rw politics: AKA austerity .

MOUNT VERNON, Wash. — Whooping cough, or pertussis, a highly infectious respiratory disease once considered doomed by science, has struck Washington State this spring with a severity that health officials say could surpass the toll of any year since the 1940s, before a vaccine went into wide use.

Although no deaths have been reported so far this year, the state has declared an epidemic and public health officials say the numbers are staggering: 1,284 cases through early May, the most in at least three decades and 10 times last year’s total at this time, 128.

The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession, which has left state and local health departments on the front lines of defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts.

Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita — the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008. Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly gone.

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.

I am unwilling to take the time to go through all those years however being a 9 to 0 ruling Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC would be a good example of freedom of religion overruling civil law.

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 19, 2012 at 10:07 p.m.

Maybe you should mention that countries that put off pertussis vaccine until the age of 3 have a much lower infant mortality rate. Or would that not fit into your "government should make parenting decisions" point of view?

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 19, 2012 at 11:25 p.m.

Why should we believe you ?

This is the third thread where you can't bring forward any evidence to support your assertions.

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 5:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 5:43 a.m.

No evidence? I have brought forth Krugman's own words, Video of Dr. Paul predicting the housing and financial crisis and multiple Supreme Court cases. You, on the other hand have brought no evidence to support your unsupportable claims.

Wow, you are having a serious case of denial.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, the " Krugman's own words" were him citing someone else, and pointing out why it WOULDN'T be a good idea.

What happened is that you and the rest of the sycophants Took the edited quote and ran with it.

Due diligence in basic research is to go look at the original source.

And your "multiple Supreme Court cases" were two. One of which wasn't decided in favor of your case and the other was based on an argument that doesn't pertain to what we were discussing.

And the anti-vac claims haven't been supported by any evidence. That makes three. In the last few days. Wonder what we'd find if we went back a week or two or three....

So, why are you claiming you are supporting your claims?

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is more interesting than the previous bantering:

**Capitalism as an Unnatural System** - John Médaille

However, it must be noted that in “defending” capitalism, Mr. Cucerai raises questions that challenge its very legitimacy. Indeed, Marx in his attacks on capitalism never said anything as negative about that system as Mr. Cucerai does in its “defense.” It is important to understand Mr. Cucerai’s argument in its elegant simplicity. I summarize it as follows:

Men naturally seek direct access to the means of subsistence, usually in the form of their own land or tools.

This access makes a man less dependent on his neighbors and therefore less dependent on the markets.

But capitalism is the condition of dependence on the market for one’s very subsistence. Therefore, “the fundamental condition for the existence of a capitalist order is the absence of the individual autonomy in the sense of owing the source of your food,” and of forcing people to seek a monetary source of subsistence. This is not a natural condition, as is owning one’s own land, because “People do not search instinctively for a source of monetary revenue.” They do so only because they are forced to do so.

“Capitalism is made possible only if this natural process is interrupted by an instrument that makes sure nobody could have access to food and shelter unless a monetary revenue is used as an intermediary.”

“Therefore, the capitalist order is not natural. Such an order can be maintained only if there is an institutional arrangement which prevents the individual from not engaging in commercial relations through the agency of money.”

That “institutional arrangement” is a government that requires people to pay taxes and fees only in the form of money. Only the state can perform this coercive function upon which capitalism depends. “The source of the revenue gets prominence over the source of food; the commercial relations are widespread because, basically, it is impossible to avoid them.”

The state is necessary for another reason, namely that “free competition is as unnatural as capitalism itself.” In absence of the state, commerce would be a matter of rent-seeking, a behavior only government regulation can prevent.

Paradoxically, the “freedom and prosperity of capitalism” are possible only “by denying people direct access to food and shelter.” In order to have this capitalist “freedom,” we must be alienated from our own nature. But if this is done, then “the breach created between us and our nature- and between us and nature in general – open a space previously unknown to human freedom and it is a form of civilization.”

Because of this fundamental alienation from nature, “ any individual that lives in the capitalist order is a fundamentally precarious being, of a radical frailty. It is the precariousness of the one who has no firm ground under his feet.”

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Men naturally seek direct access to the means of subsistence, usually in the form of their own land or tools."

I'm certainly no fan of unregulated capitalism, but that statement seems to be a pretty weak one on which to hang your hat.

mrd — May 20, 2012 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**What’s the matter with Nebraska?**

Add it up, and more than half of all Americans live in eight states. The big ones. The important ones. How many live in the eight least populated states? Less than 3 percent. Three percent — also known as the margin of error. (Which raises a terrifying scenario: It’s possible these states are completely empty.)

It is this competition, between what one state might want for its citizens and what another state might demand for its own, that Article IV is supposed to referee. Yet it hasn’t. It doesn’t. And what’s more — with all due respect to our nation’s homosexual polygamist mollusk aficionados — its failure to do so has meant repercussions far greater than a marriage license, or a second wife, or cheap, tasty New Jersey seafood: Namely, Article IV, with its schoolyard devotion to fair play and radical equality, has done something far more treacherous.

It started the Civil War.

more @

nailingit — May 20, 2012 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ron Paul won 32 of 40 Minnesota delegates, and took 8 delegates in Michigan, keeping Romney from a sweep in his home state. Additionally Paul took 17 of the 33 delegates chosen so far in Virginia.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**hey matt....**

can you define the line between 'local' and 'not local'?

it's fairly bright lately, but .... just for future reference....

DeeLittle — May 20, 2012 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Which puts RP 37 behind Gingrich and a 160 behind Santorum

In a solid 4th place. Behind two who have dropped out.....

also see:

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — May 20, 2012 at 10:28 a.m

Well, he is a libertarian philosopher.....

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 4:53 p.m.

"Which puts RP 37 behind Gingrich and a 160 behind Santorum"

You must be using "new" math.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

2012 Republican Delegates (GOP Popular Vote)
(1,144 Needed To Win)

Romney 989
Santorum 264
Gingrich 141
Paul 104

Numbers may vary in more partisan sources.

Or from using non-public voting.

In any case, what does your two states do, move him up ~ a tie for third?

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Fro, you must be living in an alternate universe. One where your "new math" is the accepted reality. Don't let me dissuade you from your beliefs, it quite admirable that you keep believing, hang in there Fro, you're a winner on whatever planet you are on.

hawkeye — May 20, 2012 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 6:34 p.m.

How many delegates does that site show Santorum getting from Minnesota? Gingrich getting from Georgia? Paul getting from Virginia or Michigan?

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Read the stories about the conventions where RP has gained some extra delegates.

As compared to the delegates earned by the popular vote.

But it is a moot point, using non-public voting, what does your two states do, move him up ~ a tie for third?

Now, tell us what sort of influence his campaign has had on the dialogue.

Tell us what sort of influence his 1/10th the votes Romney has garners.

And you question my use of sycophant.....

And we note, on the eve of this thread closing, that there are three sets of claims you've brought forward without anything that resembles substantive evidence.

This sorta makes four; since you haven't explained why you think this 'news' is important.

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — May 20, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.

I realize that the mainstream media sources have Romney at 989 of the 655 delegates awarded so far, but I was looking at the real numbers. Contrary to popular belief the media does not award delegates. Just look at Iowa, the only delegates awarded so far are 13 to Paul and RCP has them split between Romney and Santorum, who have received none.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Romney at 989 of the 655 delegates awarded so far, but I was looking at the real numbers."

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How do you get 989 out of a possible 655? Is that the new math you are talking about?

hawkeye — May 20, 2012 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — May 20, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.

Like Washington, most states have not awarded a single delegate yet. If you look at sites like AP, RCP or CNN, they will insist that Romney has 25 to 30 delegates in Washington. Washington in fact has not awarded delegates yet and here as well as many other states the majority will go to Ron Paul. I am not claiming that Romney's 351 delegates so far isn't an uphill battle for Paul, but it is far from over.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

How about a millionaire wanting a higher tax rate so the middle class can do a better job of driving job creation?

**The 1 Percent Solution**
Nick Hanauer is the kind of innovator and venture capitalist expected to power the country’s next wave of growth. So why does he insist that only the fading middle class can rescue America?

The disqualifying notion at the center of Hanauer’s talk was that the innovators and businessmen are not, in fact, “job creators”—that the fate of the economy rests instead in the hands of the middle class. So Hanauer wants to tax rich guys like himself more, to pay for investments to nurture middle-class families.

“We’ve had it backward for the last 30 years,” Hanauer said at the TED conference. “Rich businesspeople like me don’t create jobs. Rather, they are a consequence of an ecosystemic feedback loop animated by middle-class consumers.” When the middle class thrives, he said, “businesses grow and hire, and owners profit.”
Emerging research from high-powered experts across the ideological spectrum backs that economic inversion. Their work shows how America’s long-term prosperity is in jeopardy because the middle class is struggling and the super-rich are pulling away.
Widening income inequality helped drive us into the Great Recession and is holding back our recovery. It is tempting to view the stagnation of the middle class and the disappearance of middle-skill jobs as a problem for only some of us. That’s simply untrue. Mounting economic evidence suggests strongly that Hanauer’s argument is correct and is, in fact, fundamental to America’s future. It’s not a do-good argument. It is a selfish one, both for innovators and for every other American counting on the innovator class to power growth for decades to come.

The evidence suggests that the United States needs a vibrant middle class. Not for any of sentimental reasons, but because it’s a very dangerous thing not to have.

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 8:02 p.m.

Too hold any water, your argument would need some evidence that historically there are instances, preferably many, where those states' votes had no bearing on the final delegate counts at the convention.

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**G8 Summit 2012: Obama Emphasizes Growth Over Austerity To Tackle World Economic Woes**

The tension between austerity and growth – whether to slash debt by cutting budgets or use public money and other means to help spur economic growth – was the backdrop as Obama welcomed an emerging push for a balance between the two.

He seized the opportunity to cast the debate in terms favorable to his own re-election, closing the summit with the steps he took to right the U.S. economy and his economic vision for a second term. He said he was confident Europe could get on a path to recovery as has the United States.

"We know it is possible in part based on our own experience here," he said. "In my earliest days in office, we took decisive steps to confront our own financial crisis."

nailingit — May 20, 2012 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 6:34 p.m.

You need to double check your numbers from RCP, your off on some.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 8:08 p.m.

So the fact that more states go to Paul every week doesn't hold water? Your "logic" is truly dizzying.

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Who is Ron Paul?

nailingit — May 20, 2012 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — May 20, 2012 at 8:52 p.m.

So, four unsupported claims in the past few days...

With a crowning touch of some dodgy math.

btw: "your off on some" should be you're

Here's some support:

mr_basil_seal — May 20, 2012 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There is plenty of unused land in Arizona & Nebraska. As long as Obama isn't that big on personal liberty, how about requiring Baggers to reside in either state?

**Ken Bennett, Arizona Secretary Of State, Gets Response From Hawaii On Obama Birth Certificate Request**
Posted: 05/20/2012 11:38 pm

Bennett, in a radio interview last week, said he had petitioned the Aloha State to verify the existence of the president's long-form birth certificate, which the White House released last spring. According to Bennett, the request was made on behalf of over 1,200 Arizonans who had emailed him with concerns over Obama's eligibility for office.

Bennett further fanned the flames of birther rumors by threatening to keep Obama off his state's ballot if Hawaii failed to comply.

nailingit — May 21, 2012 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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