Open forum, April 1-7



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Ever try to watch one of your favorite television shows and the *"cawledge"* commercials are all crammed together into about 6 minutes of torture to the viewer. How many times must they show us that by paying through the yin yang for their conceptual education programs which barely gets anybody's foot in the door, that you're going to "get in, get out and get ahead?" Ahead of what??? The door slamming on your foot???

The problem with college these days is the courses provided. They don't teach all that a student needs in order to be ready for the workforce. They're rushed for time and budgetary constraints. They get your foot in the door to train yourself but it's up to the individual to pursue the knowledge.

Nobody...yes NOBODY should attend college unless they know what their ultimate goal is. To go to college just to say you have that degree is nothing these days...and degree programs with one specialty in mind isn't enough. I know of engineer grads, biochemical engineer grads; computer, medical and law grads who to this day, have had to take on jobs most never need official training (minimum wage jobs) because the work industry is flooded with these highly overpriced, overrated cawledge training programs which has dragged the pay scale down. Competitiveness drives wages down in some cases.

For those of us who are middle aged and above, remember when the push was for police, fire and medical training??? Look what it has done??? Too many trained for the job but no funding to place them.

Just the other day, I overheard a woman talking about her adult child in the who was expecting to get that "bonus" for joining the military in order to gain educational funding for college. The woman had stated..."the money isn't there any more."

Sad...they risk their lives by protecting our nation and hope to try to get ahead in life because civilians cannot get anywhere any more. Only a select few exceed and as holyc said..."You kiss sleep with the boss, etc, etc." It's who you know. No April Fools joke, either.

goldenoldie — April 1, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- Conservatives have a whole other agenda besides the work force and jobs when it comes to college. Check out these vids and look at the audience this outspoken Catholic (Santorum) is pandering to. KInda looks like a anti CRC meet!

I get where you are coming from, just giving a heads up about the religious dim wanting to stay dim and proselyte those around them to be dim. Buyer beware!

BTW A a good informative write.

**Why conservatives hate college**

*The right's decades-long war on academia and "liberal professors" is about defining an elite "populists" can oppose*

If you want to understand the origins of the 21st century campaign against the liberal professoriate, you have to understand why conservatives like William Buckley were engaged in a similar campaign in their day. Some of the anger that National Review authors directed at left-leaning academics reflected the same impulses and strategic calculations that sustained McCarthyism: the sense that the nation was under threat during the Cold War; the view that the ranks of the American left were filled with communists or former communists who were either outright traitors or simply not to be trusted, especially with the impressionable minds of youth; and the awareness that even if there was a meaningful difference between communists and liberals, the distinction could be blurred to good political effect. Buckley, after all, was one of McCarthy’s most vigorous defenders, coauthoring in 1954 (with Brent Bozell, his brother-in-law) “McCarthy and His Enemies,” which a reviewer for the New York Times appropriately described as “the most extraordinary book yet to come forth in the harsh bibliography … of ‘McCarthyism,’” given its point-by-point defense of some of McCarthy’s most outlandish claims. However, most of the criticisms of academia that appeared in National Review did not allege subversion by professors per se, and this was particularly the case from the 1960s onward. What lay behind the alternative lines of critique that Buckley and his collaborators pursued?

Read more @

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- I miss your well reasoned voice. Where art thou?

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

yes, yes conservatives hate college...riiiiiiiiiiight (sarcasm)

yet the liberals of the world hate anyone with money, own a business and, and..list could go on for miles...

lookie here a liberal telling women to hook a man before leaving college, why you ask? so they have someone worthy

talk about elitism

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Republicans were successful for many years at presenting themselves as "deficit hawks". No more. The sheep are getting sheared!

**David Stockman, Ex-Reagan Budget Director: George W. Bush's Policies Bankrupt The Country**

*A former adviser of Ronald Reagan has some choice words for George W. Bush.*

David Stockman, Reagan’s budget director from 1981 to 1985, slammed Bush and his former boss in an op-ed in The New York Times Sunday. **Stockman argued in the piece that Reagan’s view on the deficit “created a template for the Republicans’ utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge.”**

“(Reagan’s deficit policies) allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy,” Stockman wrote.

(Click over to The NYT to read Stockman’s full op-ed);=opinion&pagewanted;=all

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

takes a vacation a month on the tax payers dime, has increased the national debt to the amount of $53,377 per household.

he calls upon all Americans to observe this month with programs and activities to improve their understanding of financial principles and practices

“My Administration continues to encourage responsibility at all levels of our financial system by cracking down on deceptive practices and ensuring that consumers are informed of their rights,”

Where is YOUR financial responsibility obama?

*When Obama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2009, the total debt of the federal government was $10,626,877,048,913.08. As of the close of business on March 28, 2013, the total debt of the federal government was $16,766,988,432,792.62—an increase of $6,140,111,383,879.54 since Obama took office*.

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rick Santorum;

Pennsylvania State University (BA),
University of Pittsburgh (MBA),
Dickinson School of Law (JD).

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

george w. bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion.
the nation’s total debt stood at $10.6 trillion from the day obama took office it had increased to nearly $15.4 trillion by the end of January 2012, now it is at $16,766,988,432,792.62

check for yourself:

8 yrs for bush, less than 5 yrs for obama, who has driven up the debt more? who is in denial?

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 1, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.

I could not agree more. A self serving corporatocrat bent on disappointing CC residents every day he's in office. Starving government services then pointing a finger as to how inept they are.

It's what they do and how they do it.

One of the saddest parts of this political travesty imo, the conservative folks who voted him in office refuse to hold him accountable...for anything! To the conservative faithful he can do no wrong.

As long as he prays in public and nurses them with his anti-CRC elixir then he's good to go with this crowd.

*Maybe Madore's success is due to G.W and defense contracts or connections related to it with his inclinometers despite of the culprit bankrupting the country with two wars, blackwater's sidekick army, etc.*

Smart speculation. Conservatives seem to love war and the paychecks that come with it.

I wonder what DM's thoughts are on the Bush doctrine of preemptive strike. ;)

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 11:28 a.m

You really don't get it, do you. If you put everything on a credit card (as Bush did for 8 years) you and everybody after you has to pay for it for years AFTER you are out of office. Quit listening to Rush and Beck and do some thinking on your own.

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Awww, shucks. I have been doing my civic doodie for a couple of days. There is a bill in the WA State legislature in our fair state that is total crap and I have been advocating against the sucker. I have made numerous phone calls and written even more emails. Almost done.

Hope to join in here again when the dust settles a bit.

manthou — April 1, 2013 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The numbers are out there. Conservatives just don't like them.

Maybe they'll believe a heavy right wing publication. ... naw....:))

**Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?**

It’s enough to make even the most ardent Obama cynic scratch his head in confusion.
Amidst all the cries of Barack Obama being the most prolific big government spender the nation has ever suffered, Marketwatch is reporting that our president has actually been tighter with a buck than any United States president since Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Who knew?

So, how have the Republicans managed to persuade Americans to buy into the whole “Obama as big spender” narrative?

It might have something to do with the first year of the Obama presidency where the federal budget increased a whopping 17.9% —going from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. I’ll bet you think that this is the result of the Obama sponsored stimulus plan that is so frequently vilified by the conservatives…but you would be wrong.

The first year of any incoming president term is saddled—for better or for worse—with the budget set by the president whom immediately precedes the new occupant of the White House. Indeed, not only was the 2009 budget the property of George W. Bush—and passed by the 2008 Congress—it was in effect four months before Barack Obama took the oath of office.
Accordingly, the first budget that can be blamed on our current president began in 2010 with the budgets running through and including including fiscal year 2013 standing as charges on the Obama account, even if a President Willard M. Romney takes over the office on January 20, 2013.

So, how do the actual Obama annual budgets look?

Courtesy of Marketwatch-

• In fiscal 2010 (the first Obama budget) spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

•  In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.
No doubt, many will wish to give the credit to the efforts of the GOP controlled House of Representatives. That’s fine if that’s what works for you.

However, you don’t get to have it both ways. Credit whom you will, but if you are truly interested in a fair analysis of the Obama years to date—at least when it comes to spending—you’re going to have to acknowledge that under the Obama watch, even President Reagan would have to give our current president a thumbs up when it comes to his record for stretching a dollar.

Read more @

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Twilight Zone to a new dimension! Good to see you manthou!

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- Just to draw a distinction with Dem policies and Repubs.

More jobs were created under Bill Clinton in eight years than in 20 years of the two Bushes and Reagan combined. Combined!

Republicans don't like those stats either.

I agree with your view on Hillary. So far she is heads above anyone else. Quite the resume'! Republicans are a leaderless confused bunch right now. Lacking congruency and void of any reasonable substantive thought or policy reform.

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

is that all you have hawkeye? I sound like two names I haven't a clue to who they are.

check the link I posted, check for yourself. never did I say bush didn't drive up the debt, point made is he didn't drive it up in 8 yrs as much as obama has in less than 5 yrs. take those rose color glasses off and view the truth sometime.

holyc, agreed there is no leadership in either party. if by chance clinton does run, I may just vote for her.

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And manthou, thank you for your activism. Whatever bill it is, your wisdom is no doubt a value added commodity. Best of luck.

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hillary is smart and she’s tough. For those reason’s alone, she could be an effective president and the country could do a lot worse. She’s also very partisan and I do question certain prior allegations of corruption.

Yes there was White Water, which was never fully explained as far as I’m concerned. And there were a host of other allegations about the Clinton’s, which may or may not have been nothing but partisan conspiracy ideas.

But there’s one thing about Hillary herself, not Bill, that has always stood out in my mind. It was about commodities trading. Remember?

Hillary turned $1,000 into $100,000 in a year or year and a half. That would be mostly unheard of for even the most experienced traders. Something else. Back then, from my own experience, commodity brokerages required a $5,000 minimun to open an account. Maybe there were some that required only $1,000, but that would have been unusual. I never saw this issue addressed. The thing always smelled fishy to me. Like some sort of political payoff.

kn_dalai — April 1, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

is that all you have hawkeye? I sound like two names I haven't a clue to who they are.

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 12:27 p.m.

Seriously? What are you, 12? Go back to school and get an education.

Is that all I have? No, but it's a ton more than you so KMA.

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OOOOOOoooo hawkeye why so nasty? wow talk about acting 12.

but, come to think of it, as I always say, liberals absolutely love to ridicule and deride people who think differently from them but they can’t stand it when they are the target.

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 1, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.

Your explaination about the confusion makes sense and would seem to clear that up. Not that any of it is really important, but is just a matter of curiosity. Thanks.

kn_dalai — April 1, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Basement democracy.

roger — April 1, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 9:39 a.m.

Liberals don't hate anybody with money, just conservatives with money. They will go on for hours how great people like Bill Gates are, even though his products are produced by slave labor in China, then they will call for a boycott of Koch products even though they provide 50,000 union wage American jobs.

frobert — April 1, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My life and spirits were lifted today by one of Washington state's most conservative Tea Party legislators.

He reached out to me to reassure me about a bill that I discovered we both dislike, and that it will likely die before it goes any further because of its wide bipartisan support in the committee. There is a reason we both hate it, as far apart as we are politically.

I must have contacted 14 legislators today and talked to twice as many aides.

One got back to me and it was this guy.

Not Jim Moeller. Not Sharon Wylie. Not my reps, but a guy who didn't have to call back, but did. There is nothing in it for him: I cannot vote for him. But I surprised myself when I was talking to his cautious and cold aide today: I started a quiet, controlled weep as I was closing my plea to him. The aide was really caught off guard as much as I, softened immediately and promised: I will talk with XXXXXX and let him know today what you said to me.

I am not ready to name names yet or tell the full story (I am holding my breath about this bill and don't want to jinx it), but there is a lesson in this, folks.

True compassion: the ability to feel someone else's pain, does not wear political buttons.
Tolerance is equal opportunity, too.

To be continued.....

manthou — April 1, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.

but come to think of it, conservatives absolutely love to ridicule and deride people who think differently from them but they can’t stand it when they are the target.

Hmmmm, sounds familiar.

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Howdy Folks.
As we seem to be bashing higher education a bit around the basement this week, I thought a link to the one fellow who has all the answers will be in order. Nails, this is especially for you. I know you will laugh as much as I did.

luvithere — April 1, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb:Yes some of us here in the basement have some pretty solid views.But most of us listen and respect what the other side has to say.I don't think it is needed to slam anyone because they don't agree with your thinking.I tend to lean on the conservative side.But most on this blog have been very open and respectful.I guess it may be how you present your self and word what you are trying to get across.Respect breeds respect.Both sides have good points and some not so good.Open discussion is good for both sides.I think in the end we all want the same thing.To have the best life we can and to leave to the future the best life they can have.

timerick — April 1, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> frobert — April 1, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.

Yep. Bias affects perception, and extreme bias afects perception extremely.

> manthou — April 1, 2013 at 7:08 p.m.

Now, don’t go getting upset with me, but here’s what I’m wondering. You’ve expressed disdain over government beauracracy before, even to the extent of quiting your job, prematurely. But apparently, you are also pushing for more government involvement. Seems a bit of a paradox. Then again, I think it has a lot to do with getting in so deep that there’s no way out. Not until everything collapses. Maybe you’re looking for something which doesn’t exist.


On a slightly different note. Slightly.

I’m sure that some of you remember this.

After this went viral, there were all kinds of people who wanted to adopt that dog. Says something about people’s nature when they know that the gov isn’t going to take care of things. Last I heard, that braveheart took off and has not been heard from since.

And I’m pretty sure that dog wasn’t a government employee.

kn_dalai — April 1, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 1, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.

:))) Good ol' Pat. Once again marrying comedy & tragedy. Ya gotta luvit!

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, reread the posts after mine, was posting when I was told to KMA by someone. natural reaction is to give a smart>) remark back or a sarcastic one, I chose both. they dished it up, I dished it back.
this person and the rest who post here haven't a clue which way I lean politically. both parties are as dirty as a loaded diaper.
neither could careless about the (little people) us.

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

..and to continue in the vein of conservative humor...(while understanding this thought process represents a solid chunk of Republican constituency)

**Religious right leader links gay marriage and North Korea threats**

*"I don’t think it’s just a coincidence," said the leader of the Southern Baptists Convention* **VIDEO**

Frank Luter, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, implied that North Korea’s continued threats against the United States might just have something to do with gay marriage.

During an interview on ”TruNews,” host Rick Wiles brought up his theory that there might be a connection between the two, considering the Supreme Court is hearing arguments about DOMA and Prop 8 at the exact same time that Kim Jong Un is making threats. “Could our slide in immorality be what is unleashing this madman over here in Asia to punish us?” Wiles asked.

Luter replied that though he’s “not that strong in prophecy,” he’s not ruling out the  possibility. “I would not be surprised that at the time when we are debating same-sex marriage, at a time when we’re debating whether or not we should have gays leading the Boy Scout movement, I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that we have a mad man in Asia who is saying some of the things that he’s saying,” Luter said.

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — April 1, 2013 at 10:22 p.m.

this person and the rest who post here haven't a clue which way I lean politically.

Seriously? Everybody knows which way YOU lean. Don't fall over, wouldn't want you to break that arm, you couldn't pat yourself on the back any longer.

As for KMA, I think you should try to figure out what that REALLY means or you can KMA. (keep making assumptions) you're good at it.

By the way, if I meant something else, I would have said it.

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — April 1, 2013 at 11:33 p.m.

You little know darn well you used those three initials as a double standard in your statement. It's the oldest trick in the book, my fellow forum dweller. Stay focused, man...keep to the subject rather than getting all emotional, now. Drama only clouds the real issues. And this comes from someone who had to learn the hard way here on the forum to keep that from happening...8)

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone remember back in the fifties there was a block of programming on TV that started out with the farm report and ended with a televangelist preaching to the masses?

I was young but even I could see that it was a ploy for money. One particular episode there were people going on stage to be healed. The preached put his hand on their foreheads and they were so into it that some fainted. One (shill), on crutches, went behind a curtain then one crutch came out. Then another crutch appeared. (insert joke here) When the healed person next appeared they were walking. Later on it was found that the preacher was a fraud. Go figure!!

What made me laugh was when the dot on the screen appeared. You were supposed to touch the screen and pray. It was supposed to heal what ailed you. If you touched some those old TV's they could give a pretty good jolt! Then an address appeared and you were supposed to send money. Lots of money. If you sent too little you didn't get full treatment and had to send more money.

I think that those type of preachers are what turned me off to organized religions. Don't get me wrong, I believe that there is something out there. As time went on they got sophisticated and some of those charlatans got rich. A lot of those old ladies in the bible belt went broke looking for salvation. When that film came out exposing their scam some didn't believe it and raised a stink.

Now I don't step on any persons religious bent but for myself I prefer to be silent and not push it with them. I have had encounters with a lot zealots in my time and to get in a discussion with them is futile. They won't meet you even halfway. Mr. Robertson is one of those, in my opinion.

JohnCasey — April 2, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A Basement supermarket tabloid moment coming up.

Looks more and more like Pr Di liked to walk on the wild side. Poor Charlie just couldn't keep up with the lady.

roger — April 2, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 2, 2013 at 6:28 a.m.

He has sold out the rights of independent farmers and of the people. Probably didn't even know that was hidden in there...or didn't even care.

Expect to see a rise in cancers and behavioral disorders.

And yes, save your seeds. I've been doing so for a few years, now...sfsg (so far, so good).

a big, Big, **BIG** sigh of frustration.........................................8'(

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 6:48 a.m.

Agreed. A big sigh. And the US is also "puzzled" by the EU's stance on this whole genetically modified crop issue; just cannot understand why they are so up in arms over it.

Yep, we are all sold to the highest bidder here. The chemical companies in this case. Money rules in this country.

luvithere — April 2, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looking for a job? Wearing a vest at a big box retailer has become the most numerous job. Second place, retail cashiers. Third place, fast food. All pay less than half of the median wage is the US.

Should low-wage workers land one of the 527,000 jobs the Labor Department says the retail industry has created since the end of the recession, competition for those gigs is fierce. Workers with a high school education or less who once populated retail positions are being pushed aside by college graduates. The Center For College Affordability and Productivity reported that nearly half of the college graduates from the Class of 2010 are working in jobs that don't require a bachelor's degree. A full 38% have taken positions that don't require a high school education. According to The Associated Press, that has dropped the median wage for college graduates significantly since 2000. 65% of jobs created since the end of the recession are low paying jobs. (Evidently the author feels the recession is over.)

From the same article-

"That leaves us with the modern symbol of American labor: An overeducated, overqualified person in a vest pointing Rosie the Riveter and the cubicle drones from "Office Space" to the gardening section."

Small wonder the economy can't and won't grow for some time.

mrd — April 2, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, I know of someone that applied for a receptionist job and was told they needed a degree in communications.
Now please tell me how a degree is needed to answer the phone and say the name of the business, how may I help you and push buttons?

Or how about the person who applied to spray weeds for the county and was told they had to have to be certified. I kind of understand about this one, wouldn't want to spray the wrong liquid on certain plants.

Next we will hear that if someone has a daycare in their home they will have to have a degree in early childhood development.
How about a cashier in retail has to have a 2 yr degree in business and a degree in communication, lately I have noticed how so many who are cashiers have such a sourpuss attitude. ;)

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai @ 9:18 PM: No, actually, passing this bill would support more government in our lives.

I have to go to the gubment to get their support for killing this bill because, last time I checked, they still hold the reigns of power.

Not us peons. We gotta convince them or strong arm them or stop paying their salaries. Whatever. But until we can toddle on down to Olympia to vote directly in those legislative committees, these politicians need to be reminded about who they work for every now and then.

Sometimes ya gotta dance with the devil to get to the prom. But this devil, yesterday, was not as bad as the stereotypes would have us believe.

That was, I hope, my weak and misunderstood point. :)

manthou — April 2, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola, thanks for the video, I will share this with others!

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.

Can I chime in on this one?

EL, as for the receptionist job, I can see them requiring some kind of degree. Most kids out of high school can't spell, write or talk. The high schools are just pumping out texting idiots.

About the person spraying weeds, it's a lot more technical than one might think. You can't get certain sprays near water and the labels nearly take a degree just to read them.

Now about the daycare, would you leave your child with someone who didn't have a degree? I wouldn't.

Now, I don't think any cashier has a business degree. I'll bet you that you could take all the cashiers in any big store like Walmart, Freddies, Pennys, or Sears and give them a cash drawer, tell them the price of an item, hand them a $20 bill and ask for the change and they couldn't do it in their head or count back the change to you without a calculator. Today's cash registers have made these people stupid, nothing more than robots. That will be the next job gone. It will be cheaper to have the customer scan their own food or whatever and have a person watching than it will to employ a checker.

hawkeye — April 2, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How about giving churches a choice, either to be taxed or have their structures razed and install a prayer booth in it's place. Property to be donated to local governments for use bettering communities.

This could solve a couple of problems our two local County Commissioners created.

Turn many (recently vacated church properties) into neighborhood parks, provide animal shelters and staff them with Veterinarians. Jobs Jobs Jobs!

And to address the obvious forthcoming problems, (allowing a private space to be used by innocent children and religious followers/clergy) have armed atheist security guards monitoring prayer booths. And again, Jobs Jobs Jobs!

Personally, I think we could save our County money by refurbishing port-a-potty's for said use.

'Porta-Potty-Praying'. It does sound catchy.

Time for morning meds!

nailingit — April 2, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — April 2, 2013 at 9:13 a.m

This is why I suggested to ESD more than 10 yrs ago they have classes geared toward kinds of jobs the kids were interested in doing. Block classes, say if a student is interested in say business, the math, english etc classes they attend would be more geared to what they would need to know to run a business, be a cashier, medical field, or whatever.

As I said, I can understand why being certified to spray weeds.

I know 2 people (neighbors) for more than 30 yrs that have daycares in their home. They are stated certified and inspected by the state on a regular basis. One has a degree (she worked in a medical lab testing) she also speaks 7 languages, raised 4 kids of her own the other lady just a HS diploma, raised 5 kids of her own. Wouldn't bother me one bit if I were a young mom to leave my kids with either one. In fact my oldest grandson went to the latter daycare for almost 10 yrs.

I agree with you about the cashiers being stupid when it comes to making change. How to make change was beat into my head as a teen on my first job, have never forgotten how either!

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On the other hand nailingit, every time I would drive by the old Fred Meyers building on 4th Plain I always thought, or asked why they didn't turn that building into a homeless shelter or into medical for low income and homeless.

I have asked why they couldn't use the old barracks and hospital at the Fort for the same.

Drive around out here in east county area and see how many buildings sitting empty that could be used to help the community.
The owners of said buildings would rather take the tax deduction as a lost than to have/keep rent paying patrons.
It's all about the money..

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- I agree and wonder same. There is/was a large church group a year or two ago I remember, that was buying up a big store to use as church.

I was struck at the churches main mission; to feed the poor and help the homeless. It was refreshing, in line with widely held Christian teachings and seemed not to have a political slant.

I remember posting and.. praising their efforts. I hope they're still around and stay true to their mission.

And I hope they are committed to staying completely out of politics, which is my main contention with today's churches.

nailingit — April 2, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 10:04 a.m

About schools geared to real education, that's why I went to Benson Tech in Portland. You could actually get educated in a useable field. I took automotive and got recruited and hired by Freightliner right out of school. We need more businesses involved in education.

hawkeye — April 2, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, that would have been the old KMart building off 4th Plain and yes, the church is still there and thriving.

My church has a food bank we all contribute too for those who are in need. If anyone comes in, in need can take from. We also have paid for hotel rooms for some. Some of us have even helped some get jobs.

There are churches out there very involved, while there are those that aren't. To lump them all together is so very wrong.

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — April 2, 2013 at 10:35 a.m

When my son was in HS, his shop/welding teacher had to fight tooth and nail to keep both programs with the district. The district felt that woodworking and welding was on the way out and that there was no need to continue teaching such. The teacher told the district that not all students were going to go to college and they need to keep programs around that the kids could learn to be able to be productive in life.
Plumbing, electricians, automotive are 3 more jobs that isn't being taught in majority of schools. What will we do in the future if we need a plumber, electrician, welder, or woodworker and this country has none?

I'd like to know why so many business owners have stopped internships?????

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What will we do in the future if we need a plumber, electrician, welder, or woodworker and this country has none?

already finding out. seems I've read several times CNC machinists are very hard to find.

I'd like to know why so many business owners have stopped internships?????

as you, I think it was, mentioned above, it's all about money

mrd — April 2, 2013 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — April 2, 2013 at 8 a.m.

That's exactly what I was leading to in my comment yesterday @6:24am. It's a sad, sad world when a quality education gets you nowhere.

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, looks like there is a push to bring back apprenticeships to this country. Sorely needed. Read somewhere but forgot where, that they are looking to Germany's model along those lines to get this effort under way. We still have the old-fashioned apprenticeship model over there. Either go to college or apprentice and learn a trade. Nothing wrong with a trade - I appreciate our well-trained plumbers and electricians!

luvithere — April 2, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Things go through boom and bust cycles and tend to be self correcting.

We’ve all seen stories about jobs that can’t be filled because there aren’t qualified applicants. Like welding, for one. Businesses will end up paying more for qualified trades people and more young people will become interested in the trades instead of getting degrees in the history of tenth century basket weaving.

And Elisi, I can’t agree with your comment of 10:15 a.m. I’m pretty sure that any owner of vacant buildings would like to sell. The market is getting a little better right now, but still has a long ways to go. Anyone with unused buildings is paying property taxes and likely insurance and other incidental costs. There is also an issue of zoning. Many properties were rezoned 20 years ago due to Growth Management. They may have been grandfathered in, but new uses may not be qualified. No one is saving any money by having unused buildings and property.

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — April 2, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

So how would they go about getting certified in spraying weeds??? Seems to me there's "entrepreneurs" who will spray without thinking twice about overspray, toxins or anything. And those "certified" workers...yeah, I've seen them do their wares. Even if a sign is up along the edge of a garden in front of a home that says "No Spraying," they'll go ahead and do it anyhow. Certified my back side. Maybe if they were certified through the Stream Stewardship Program through Clark PUD, they'd be a bit more caring about what they're putting into our ground and allowing to drift in our air.

holycrapola — April 2, 2013 at 8:24 a.m.

Always a great training lesson for those who are unaware. Glad you brought it back to the forum. Looks like we're on the same wavelength, today.

My little complaint for the day...

Folks, please don't use the chemical weed killer in the white, aka Roundup. That crap is the worst thing you can put on your ground. They say it goes away after 24 hours...BULL FREAKIN' you know what!!! It kills the beneficial plants and insects and allows the plants which are resistant to it to grow wild as well.

Also...the stuff some companies claim is bio-safe...isn't necessarily bio-safe, either. Check before you buy. A couple of hints to eliminate weeds...hand pull and throw in your trash. I found this recipe for sidewalks, driveways and retaining walls: 1/2 gallon vinegar, 1/8-1/4 cup salt and a dash of liquid dish detergent in a spray bottle(eliminate the salt for weeds in your yard as it could kill the grass). Shake well and spray directly onto weed. Also...pouring boiling water on the weed and pulling off any blooms or seed pods.

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.

All that goes through my mind is the commercial where the guy comes home from work to his wife and finds the plumber in his kitchen, fixing the sink. The husband asks the plumber something like..."Didn't you do my taxes last year?"

A little hint in quality control???

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 12:36 p.m

Then answer this, Why would any owner of a building would rather not keep and work with a paying tenant on the rent to letting the building stand empty? I know of several buildings here in CC that the tenants were forced to move or just go out of business due to the lack of reasonable rent. Owners didn't want to work with the tenants on rent (when the economy went south) or they raised it up so much they could not afford to pay.

If the owner is paying out an amount in insurance, taxes and even loans on said property and no rent.. they can write it off their taxes as a loss.

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 2, 2013 at 12:44 p.m

I'm thinking that the younger generation coming up will end up being what is a "jack of all trades" to make ends meet.

Nap time feeling a tad out of it today catch everyone's posts later.

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh and luvithere — April 2, 2013 at 12:22 p.m

Those programs should have never went away here IMO.

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What we have found out in part of our trade is the multi-national companys have convinced the insurance companys that they have the best solution.They hire young people out of high school and have them pass a certification test and send them out with a older technician for a couple of weeks then turn them out on their own.We always use the apprenticeship route. They work their way up the pay scale as they progress.It takes from 3 to 4 years depending on how much of the trade they want to learn.

timerick — April 2, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — April 2, 2013 at 6:14 a.m

"Does anyone remember back in the fifties there was a block of programming on TV that started out with the farm report and ended with a televangelist preaching to the masses?"

I don't remember a farm report, but I do remember the laying on of hands, both for the persons asking for 'healing', and by my Mother touching the radio, then later with the TV when we got one. It was Oral Roberts who had the radio show, complete with 'alter calls', healing & 'saving' thru touching the radio, and asking for money. He also came to Portland when I was around 4 or 5. He pitched a huge tent, and I was told we were going to a 'tent meeting'. I thought we were going to the circus.

I've not had much use for religion ever since.

jacjak — April 2, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have no idea why that would happen. I can see why an owner who like to sell, may not want to rent to a new tenant for a short time, due to having to evict a tenant when the place is sold, which could cause some problems. But that does not make sense that they would lose existing tenants due to higher rents rather than having no income at all.

Writing off losses is not going to do a property owner any good, if they have no income to write their losses off against. And even if that were the case, all that means is that they would not have to pay taxes on the losses – but they still lose rental income money.

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 2, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

'Food, Inc.' is also a book... if you have the stomach for it. I was looking through it at Powell's when a guy asked if I'd read it, and I said 'no'. He said it was very good, and worth reading if interested in food, food safety, and food as an 'industry'. He added the disclaimer that I'd probably never eat meat again if I read it. Well, he doesn't know this ole carnivore, but it's still a tough read.

Another eye-opener is 'Fast Food Nation', and I've just now started reading 'Salt, Sugar, Fat' by Michael Moss. He's the guy who let the Public in on the meat industry's Pink Slime. Reading/viewing some of these things is sort of like the same process as being broken up with by a favorite boy/, then suspicion, then lack of trust, then disappointment, anger, acceptance, and finally cynicism. The process repeats each time we get a glimpse under the skirts of another iconic industry, leader, lender, developer, etc. until the Public is fairly jaded on all manner of things, and we become quietly and collectly anesthetized to whatever next revelation makes it to the news, to print, or a movie screen.

jacjak — April 2, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 2:51 p.m

It's called "Loss OF imcome"

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

oops I meant "Loss OF income"

ELISI — April 2, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I went tO cOlleGe when GW Bush was in pOwer arOund 2002. HOw was it baD? I was able 2 get state & feDeral Grants while making $35,000 a year. I DiDn't have 2 pay a single penny back. Businesses were bOOming then. DiD y'all knOw that state and feD Grants were cut by Obama just a few years aGO? COmpanies stayeD in the U.S. America was rebuilDinG after 9-11. NOw there are nO jObs Only in the private sectOr that DOn't pay even half Of what GraDuates that have mba's or ba's were making. NOw Our pres DeciDes 2 sign in MOnsantO's iDiOtic bill? I've learneD a few things in life- Trust GOD, DOn't trust a pOlicitican, & certainly DOn't trust a lawyer whO is in the presiDency. He swOOneD all of y'all whO vOteD for him. It was just a trial to him of trying to win over the jury. HOpe you like yOu're hOpe & chanGe.

andrecht — April 2, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, from last week about Heart. thanx 4 the link, I only like one song of there's not my type of music though. If lil wayne, T.I., or Awolnation is in town, I'll be there.

Here is something different for **all** to read.I met someone that used to post on this forum- she said she stopped posting 4 quite a while bc she didn't like what she read. It disgusted her. We got to talking about who she was and she told me that she used to ride dirtbikes and was in the motocross scene. I tried to get her 2 tell me more & she wouldn't budge. But let me tell you, this lady was fiiiinnnee! She was one of the nicest people I've ever come across. Very beautiful 5'6 - 5'7 blond curly hair gorgeous light blue eyes mid- to late 20's. A definite M.I.L.F. After talking, I get to my truck & she is parked right next to me in a very nice Blue Subaru STi. I was twitterpated. She then proceeds to get my attention and says Hey....I go by mxfun. Made me realize you never know who you are talking to.

So mxfun where ever you are, come back out beautiful.

andrecht — April 2, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I also hope that the lawsuit re coals goes ahead and hope something good comes out of it. Not covering these trains is a travesty.
Don't mind Lew so much. He has a tendency to call environmentally inclined people by not so nice words and his whole thinking is: humans first. In his opinion it all means jobs. That trumps everything else. He is ok with his thinking about CRC, does his research well even. But I have found him quite closed-minded on every other topic. Tea party adherent, bashing evil Dems on his website (when he is not bashing the C). Pretty much how he spends his day. Best to shrug off.

luvithere — April 2, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I’m not seeing your reasoning with the tax issue of Loss of Income to which you have referred. Loss of income over fire or theft maybe; as in deducting losses from income, but I don’t see how a property owner could possibly benefit from that. They still lose. I don’t see how that applies to some supposed tax deduction benefits from vacant and unused property or buildings.

I think there must be some other reason, other than a “tax deduction” ,which doesn’t make sense, as to why property/building owners are paying out expenses, but not trying to bring in rental income.

I really don’t know what’s going on there, but I don’t think it has anything to do with making money on not having to pay federal taxes on taking a loss, which they are surely not doing.

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

andrecht — April 2, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.

Havin' a caps lock issue???

andrecht — April 2, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

Regarding that "very beautiful someone" you speak of...guess you didn't know mxfun is related to me. Nice little compliment. The rest of your comment - no class, raunchy in fact. A little reminder - this will make you think twice about who it is you're talkin' to, even on a forum of words and screen names. And if you didn't realize this...the man in the driver seat is her significant other.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 5:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — April 2, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.

Mind if I chime in...

Methinks the loss of income is with regards to a business ownership of property. If they're reporting profits with renters/lease options and the building stands idle...wouldn't that be a tax write off??? Just curious.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 5:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JacJak, the book you mentioned...*Salt Sugar Fat*...I just checked the reviews on it and it sounds like it's definitely one worth reading for anybody who is interested in bettering their personal health or the health of their loved ones. I've reserved a copy at FVRL. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!!!

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 5:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc...taking the parking fees away isn't going to increase crime. The criminal element isn't going to flood the areas any more than they already have. Please don't try the fear mongering on this one.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting that formal education is being discussed -

So what is the purpose? A program of learning that provides a solid knowledge base and develops the thinking processes? Or to get people ready to become productive adults?

I'm conflicted over this. The latter was what we had back in the '60s, and it worked for an industrialized USA. But how can schools train people for jobs in fields that may no longer exist in 20 years? The communications field is an example - in the Army, in the '90s we were losing highly trained networking specialists and "cable dogs" to the civilian world. By the early 2000s many of those people were unemployed - between a glut of trained people and wireless communications - you're no longer needed. Our world is changing so rapidly that perhaps just learning how to think is the best approach.

If we channel education to specialize, do we lose the great thinkers?

But in this day and age - the Liberal Arts degrees many of us pursued are next to useless. Too bad we didn't have a business curriculum at my college - I enjoyed the accounting courses I took later in life.

roger — April 3, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just finished checking out the national drought monitor website, checked out a couple articles and found what I believe to be an issue of grave concern for many ranchers and farmers, as well as the consumers (us). The Midwest from the Dakotas down to Texas is still suffering exceptional drought issues. The Four Corners and the south half of Wyoming as well and forecasts show low stream flow issues. Southeastern Oregon is still fighting moderate to severe drought-like conditions as well.

What concerns me is the Big Oil companies seeking new places to develop new rigs and the impact to farmers and ranchers. Southern New Mexico ranchers have already been told they'll only receive 1/10th the amount of water for their livestock and crops. The amount of water used in fracking operations (hydraulic fracturing) is tremendous and is causing major issues with water tables and well water needed to keep crops going and livestock hydrated...especially in Texas.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding empty buildings around the city and the county. I too have voiced concerns and questions about using them for temporary use for the homeless and indigents in our area. I drove by the Freddy's all the time and told my wife they should use it for the homeless. Hell the religious groups could set it up and probably get a tax write-off.

I never looked into it but it would seem to me that there would be problems for the owners in the form of liabilities. You know, the people who think it would be a great idea BUT 'not in my backyard' types. I don't know how insurance companies would set up a policy to cover the owners butts but something could be worked out.

All around the mall owners have put up all those brick edifices and are maybe half full. But still the continue to build these pieces of crap in hopes that someone will rent from them. The strip mall directly west of the mall on Thurston is having trouble renting their spaces. When I asked the manager of the old discount store why they were closing it was the owners kept jacking up the rent. Same with the restaurant that kept changing owners. Same with TCBY. The old coffee shop next to the sushi place changed owners at least three times that I know of. They had way better coffee than starbuckys. Most of these went out of business because of the recession. The owners didn't seem to care. The closure you are to a mall the higher the rent.

JohnCasey — April 3, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 6:20 a.m

Are you serious? I live near Lewisville park and it's going to be crazy there this summer with no fees. Two things are positively going to happen, there are going to be three times the accidents going in and out of the park ( I can almost guarantee at least one fatality) and the garbage and maintenance are going to go up and up and up.

hawkeye — April 3, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obama administration pushes banks to make home loans to people with weaker credit**

The Obama administration is engaged in a broad push to make more home loans available to people with weaker credit, an effort that officials say will help power the economic recovery but that skeptics say could open the door to the risky lending that caused the housing crash in the first place.

Please tell me this is a delayed April Fool's day joke someone, anyone??? Didn't they learn from what we have just gone through?
Shaking my head in total disgust, are we to repeat again from Carter to the present once again? Unbelievable!

ELISI — April 3, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This childish controversial act of opening County business with a prayer to a Christian deity seems to be the latest flavor of the month for evangelicals. Why aren't Libertarians denouncing this? No heart, no conviction and no soul. Just keep spouting the "collectivist" rhetoric while shenanigans like this go seemingly unnoticed. Libertarians are like a club or a sorority for old people hating change and young people to stupid or ill informed to understand what they believe, accept for prayer while conducting taxpayer business.

What a complete joke.

What happened to the jobs in CC issue? Conservatives won't hold Madore to his word, so the rest of us will have to.

Apathy biting us hard.

**North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill**

Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." **The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, reported.**

The religion bill comes as some Republican-led states seek to separate themselves from the federal government, primarily on the issues of guns and Obamacare. This includes a proposal in Mississippi to establish a state board with the power to nullify federal laws.

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldenoldie...Cool, hey I say what I want when I want. That's you're opinion. Good genes.

What is with these old fat men on harley's in clark county? Their stomachs r huge & their arms barely grab the handlebars. They're disgusting & resemble registered sex offenders or wannabe bikers. Don't get me going on about them past battle ground towards lewisville park & so on. Its a nightmare.

andrecht — April 3, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yep, do I. Sometimes it bites, though. Just pointing out your discovery went a bit further than someone you just happened to be talking to.

Regarding the old fat men as you call 'em...maybe they're the ones hawkeye is concerned about in the parks...;P


hawkeye — April 3, 2013 at 7:34 a.m.

Yes, I'm serious. Lewisville as well as Daybreak Park are already a mad house in the summer and are buzzing with issues of crime, even with the parking fee. Crime happens and removing a $2-7 parks fee isn't going to change things.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 3, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

When's the last time you were at Frenchman's Bar??? or Daybreak Park for that matter???

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 3, 2013 at 6:53 a.m.

Addy Lab here in Vancouver already does water analyses. Just about any medical office can perform the second and third. Your fourth one...wouldn't you consider it basic knowledge that if data collected through the first three with results provided to you...when compared with accurate data provided through years of research would most likely provide the results you seek. Not sure if it's something that would be a money maker since the medical industry and EPA (in conjunction with companies like Addy) are already on top of it. Too much competitiveness I'd think.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

andrecht — April 2, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

Incredible odds that you would not only by chance meet someone who posted here, but work the forum into a conversation with a stranger. Bizarre.

Then you get knocked for saying all things complimentary about this person.

I remember MX used to gripe about old people and make fun of their, I believe the word was "shriveled" privates and the way they looked. Classy. Your assessment of harley riders kinda brought it to mind. .. A real "hair twirlin' bubble gum chewin' babe as she would describe herself. And quite the successful young wealthy entrepreneur as well!

She also said she had a thing for spending time on wikipedia altering word and subject definitions just to screw people up. A real class act.

I'm glad you ran into her as for awhile I thought she was just another avatar offshoot of a prolific poster. My guess is we'll be seeing soon.

I believe I asked you before but..have you ever posted on the forum before? Just curious.

BTW, given your extensive observations with men riding Harley's, maybe you're suppressing something. You never know.

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 3, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.

I was referring to the issue of parks fees being dropped and hawkeye's perception that crime will increase... not bikers and where they are.

Regarding your post @1:33 pm...the government already has a head start on ya with health care and your lifestyle. Chances are...if you are asked to have a certain test done and you turn it won't have coverage later on unless you purchase supplemental insurance.

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So I ask you again, holycrapola...When's the last time you were at Frenchman's Bar??? or Daybreak Park for that matter???

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 5:43 a.m.


And just what is a tax write off?

Example. Supposing someone has a rental unit that sits idle. Now suppose that individual has gross adjusted income of $100,000 on their day job or whatever. Just to throw out some round numbers. Suppose the property taxes and other stuff they paid on their vacant rental property was $10,000. Assuming they itemize deductions, then they could deduct the $10,000 in expenses, from their other income. So - $100,000 minus $10,000 is $90,000. They pay taxes on $90,000 instead of $100,000. If their tax bill comes out to 25%, then they pay $2,500 less than they would have without the deduction for expenses on the idle rental unit, but they’ve still lost $7,500 (anyone who owns their own home does the same thing). But they’ve also lost their rental income, from having their building sit idle.

The same would hold true for property owned by a corporation, rather than an individual.

If the property is owned by one, or many, who are incorporated, then they could not even deduct the expenses of that property from their own private income. It would all go through their corporation. As a legal entity. And private ownership is separate and apart from corporate ownership. There has to be income from which to deduct expenses.

I have no idea why someone would not rent a usable building and lose income, unless there are other extenuating circumstances.

I’m not disputing Elisi’s obsevation of vacant buildings. That much is pretty obvious to us all. I don’t know what’s going on with kicking out paying tenants, just to let the building sit idle, but I just don’t see how it has anything to do with tax benefits.
And no, I'm not a landlord. In case someone was wondering.

kn_dalai — April 3, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC, what does your top rocker read?

Drift — April 3, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

46 Senators voted in favor of handing over our Constitutional rights to the UN.

Below is the list of Democrats that voted against the amendment and in favor of the UN being given the power to overturn the U.S. Constitution.
Baldwin (D WI)
Baucus (D MT)
Bennet (D CO)
Blumenthal (D CT)
Boxer (D CA)
Brown (D OH)
Cantwell (D WA)
Cardin (D MD)
Carper (D DE)
Casey (D PA)
Coons (D DE)
Cowan (D MA)
Durbin (D IL)
Feinstein (D CA)
Franken (D MN)
Gillibrand (D NY)
Harkin (D IA)
Hirono (D HI)
Johnson (D SD)
Kaine (D VA)
King (I ME)
Klobuchar (D MN)
Landrieu (D LA) Leahy (D VT)
Levin (D MI)
McCaskill (D MO)
Menendez (D NJ)
Merkley (D OR)
Mikulski (D MD)
Murphy (D CT)
Murray (D WA)
Nelson (D FL)
Reed (D RI)
Reid (D NV)
Rockefeller (D WA)
Sanders (I VT)
Schatz (D HI)
Shaheen (D NH)
Stabenow (D MI)
Udall (D CO)
Udall (D NM)
Warner (D VA)
Warren (D MA)
Whitehouse (D RI)
Wyden (D OR)

jasonb — April 3, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In addition to jasonb's statement that 46 senators voted in favor to handing our Constitutional Rights to the UN (against Senate Bill 139(Imhofe) ...another 53 voted to protect our rights. BTW Senator Murray and Senator Cantwell voted NAY on this bill as did Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden of Oregon.

Here's the list:;=1&vote;=00091

goldenoldie — April 3, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 3, 2013 at 5:41 p.m.

You posted a link to a news story about the treaty, not the treaty. Here is a link to the treaty, and yes, there are things to be concerned about.

frobert — April 3, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

[WP article] *****But the treaty was denounced by Iran, North Korea and Syria...

*and a few basement conservatives...

This helps explain somewhat.

**Stopping the U.N. Arms Treaty**

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has he signed a Fox News deal yet?

**Richard Cebull, Federal Judge Who Sent Racist Obama Email, Retires**

U.S. District Judge Richard F. Cebull, the federal judge in Montana who sent an email last year suggesting that President Barack Obama's mother had sex with a dog, has retired following an investigation into his conduct.

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 6:31 p.m.

I am surprised that it is denounced by those countries, because it prohibits arming of freedom fighters and revolutionaries.

frobert — April 3, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just don't see why this treaty would mean we are in danger of losing the constitution. Sorry, I really don't see. Looks to me if that were the case, the other 150+ signees are all waiting/ salivating to force us to abolish the constitution. Yea right.

luvithere — April 3, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd say that treaty has no real teeth - the world's #1 arms dealer is going to continue business as usual.

roger — April 3, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — April 3, 2013 at 6:01 p.m

let them scoff at it, those that do end up asking 9 out of 10 times what the h happened in the end.
they only know what they hear from the media, enough to derision at others not bothering to seek the gov sites.

jasonb — April 3, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.

Funny how the Huffington post left out that he was originally appointed by the Clinton Administration, and his history of liberal rulings. Either way trying to tie his statements to any party is a strawman fallacy.

frobert — April 3, 2013 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> The resolution continues, “This invocation time shall not be used to lobby or advance a particular religion or disparage any faith or belief.”


Some seem to be making an assumption that the prayer is to a Christian deity. But the Columbian article and the related quotes on the matter, describe things differently, and says nothing about Christianity.

Peoples across the globe and through out time have ascribed existence to some sort of greater power. In this country, look up the issue of the pledge of allegiance and the phrase”in God we trust” . The thing is looked at by the courts as a generic phrase, and not as a promotion of some religion. And after all, Hindu’s, for example, also believe in God.

One may believe in science and mathematics but also think there’s something else going on that got all of this started other than just a big bang of something out of nothingness ,and a primordial soup. If homage is paid to a notion of a greater power prior to the start of public meetings, should it really matter to others. The notion of "devine providence" comes to mind. I think it has to do with putting back a certain reverence in dealing with others and with the public issues, that may not exist in the non deist world.


kn_dalai — April 3, 2013 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — April 3, 2013 at 10:17 p.m.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one, Hindus believe in hundreds of gods, Sikhs believe in God. The Pledge was origionally written by a Baptist minister and contained no reference to "God", that was added in the 1950's.

frobert — April 3, 2013 at 10:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dear God,

Stuart gets it right. God, the lengths some go to tow party line.

Character/integrity used to mean something in this world and I suspect this town as well. Do you have this kind of cluster@%$# in heaven? God, these people sell their souls for a penny. Laws, contracts, even our Constitution mean nothing to those who lay claim to your name.

Why won't our local conservatives hold Madore accountable? For anything! Lack of transparency, lack of jobs, lack of contractual commitments, lack of keeping campaign promises, etc.

And no complaints from those on the right. From the wacky evangelicals to the back pocket constitution carriers to the crack pot baggers and all between...he can do no wrong.

And God for Christ's sake he's a Republican! That in and of itself...

You know if Republicans were half this united nationally Romney would have won with ease.

Thank you for that small favor.


Amen P.S.

God just gave me a revelation! Glory Hallelujah!

God told me two city commissioners are making a big production about public prayer to turn the conversation away from not producing jobs, breaking contractual commitments, not being transparent, not keeping campaign promises, future scandal and then...

...God said etc. etc.


Amen P.S.2

God said let their be light rail!

(personally I wouldn't argue with the guy)

nailingit — April 3, 2013 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***dear God...never again.***

> The 25 kilometres of yellowing papers
> include typed lists of Jews,
> homosexuals and other persecuted
> groups, files on children born in the
> Nazi Lebensborn programme to breed a
> master race, and registers of arrivals
> and departures from concentration
> camps.
> It even has a carbon copy of
> Schindler's List, the 1,000 Jewish
> workers saved by German industrialist
> Oskar Schindler.
> The Nazis' meticulous record-keeping
> stopped only when Jews and other
> victims were herded into gas chambers.
> "At death camps like Sobibor or
> Auschwitz, only natural causes of
> death are recorded - heart failure or
> pneumonia," said spokeswoman, Kathrin
> Flor. "There's no mention of gassing.
> The last evidence of many lives is the
> transport to the camp."

DeeLittle — April 3, 2013 at 11:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

God just told me he f'ed up with the *God told me two city commissioners* comment @ 11:25.

God said he meant to tell me two *County* Commissioners instead.

I said listen God, you should get it right the first time, bein' that you're God an all.

God said *never underestimate my green earth and the value it brings.*

I pondered.

nailingit — April 4, 2013 at 12:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So the Senate Transportation Committee won't fund the CRC. They are still willing to give $82 million for operations for the next two years. That is $3.4 million a month. I guess that inflation caught up with the CRC folks. They were spending about a mil a month.

Here's an idea. Suspend operations of the CRC and give that money to Clark County for the schools. That's a much better investment.

Yes, we all know Inslee is still on board and it may still get funded. MAYBE!!! Last year I pretty much spammed our state and federal reps. I suggested an investigation on the CRC operations and expenditures. I still call for it. Considering what has come out in the last several months about the backroom shenanigans I believe it is warranted more now than ever.

JohnCasey — April 4, 2013 at 5:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In a GOP race in South Carolina there wasn't one person, out of sixteen candidates, more qualified than disgraced gov Mark Sanford last month? W T H

It appears that the people of the GOP are still ... (fill in your own word here). Seeking political redemption my ass!!! He's proven to be an idiot and he's still an idiot. His ex-wife, Jenny, is the smart one.

I find, in the end, that someone with the morals of an ally-cat in their personal life, have absolutely no business in politics. That's how the public gets screwed over. Their thinking just ain't right, if you know what I mean.

JohnCasey — April 4, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey...for what it's worth, you are not alone in your efforts. Our political leaders are being slammed with emails, letters and phone calls...both for and against the current LPA design. Keep up the pressure, my friend. Now, more than ever. You know the old saying..."it ain't over till...."

She isn't singing yet, lol.

And that investigation you've suggested...from what I've heard through the grapevine, that just might happen sooner than we think. That rotten smell in this isn't going away as some with vested interests would like, making some very nervous and they're slipping up in their presentation skills they're trying to use to *convince* the few who have yet to understand just what the multi-billion dollar project is all about.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is all rigged and the ones that think that there is still decency, honesty and integrity, they are sadly mistaken.

It is a jungle everywhere!

holycrapola — April 4, 2013 at 4:59 a.m.

holyc, my fellow forum dweller...this is where I must disagree with you. Yes, there's corruption everywhere and yes, we are definitely affected by it...nothing we can do about it as individuals in order to make a big impact, but for you to say the aforementioned words I've quoted in your post, you're dead wrong. The fact is...decency, honesty and integrity IS still around. You just have to look for it rather than looking for the bad side of the coin all the time. Don't give up hope on the human race yet, holyc.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Careful, holyc...that vein in your forehead is popping out.

Apparently you don't quite understand the ramifications of forcing these three companies to locate downriver from their current location. It's not just moving them downriver, my friend. It would mean moving them out of Clark County altogether and this is exactly what they're trying to avoid because of the fact this brings business to Vancouver. It also limits future expansion of industrialized companies along the river. Do we want to eliminate yet more jobs or bank on the future of these job expansions?

Wanting that huge earthquake??? You mean to tell me you'd wish injury and death to the masses (???) because that's what would happen should there be a big enough earthquake (stronger than a 9.0) with a lengthy wave frequency to bring that bridge down.

You want me to state the ONE GREAT THING that Vancouver is known for??? I'll grant you that wish...

Vancouver is known for the origin of Western Civilization to the region surrounding the Columbia River...namely, *Fort Vancouver*. Our rich heritage of the region is our number one positive attribute. It is what made our county stand out on the map, especially with more landmarks being recognized on the Registry of National Historic Places...including the I-5 Bridges on the Historic Bridges Registry as well as the Cedar Creek Grist Mill and at least a dozen other sites. Vancouver's history stems even more recently with the Chkalov flight from Russia to our fine city. They didn't land at PDX...they landed at Pearson. This was a monumental flight forever landed in history.

Modern day shipping needs are ever growing in our port(yet another reason to ask when was the last time you'd been to Frenchmen's Bar)...Are you familiar with the importance of what was once known as the Kaiser Shipyards here in our county? Well, it may have a different name and expansions are happening, making Vancouver's Columbia Business Center (aka Kaiser Shipyards) and the rest of the Port of Vancouver something to be recognized globally when it comes to getting merchandise moved. The rail yards are well used and even improvements are happening there as well. Vancouver is also a cross point for international/national rail, my

You see holycrapola, not everything has to have something new to be great. We don't need to "Keep Vancouver Weird" like Portland in order to catch attention to the world. We have the gorgeous mountains and the Columbia River Gorge in our back yard. We have great wealth in our history and improvements (such as the Ridgefield Nat'l Wildlife Refuge has done) to infrastructure (including the Chelatchie Prairie Railway Corridor) are important in preservation of our great historic wealth, here.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I rode by Daybreak park on Saturday, just rode by on my way to meet some brothers.*

holycrapola — April 3, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.

On any given summer day, Daybreak has seen its share of crime including assaults, car break ins, etcetera, have Lewisville Park, Frenchmen's Bar and the rest of them. The $2-7 fee has not deterred crime. That's like saying bringing light rail to Vancouver will bring the criminals to our doorstep, even though they're already here. The real crime was the fees implemented in the first place. If you want to know what is a true crime and we are stuck either staying away from the places altogether or paying the fee is the blasted Discovery Pass here in Washington State. At least with the parks fee in renewing license tags for your m'cycle or any other vehicle, we have the choice if we want to pay for it.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Why must a city have an "attraction?"

Is pushing industry out for housing anagolous to building homes on farm land?

What is progress? How does the defininition relate to a sleepy little burg with content inhabitants?

Crimes are committed quite regularly by people with very good income. Ask any CEO of a large corporation.

Did you know that a stop light is also a go light?

Yes, Mutt and Jeff are blowing it with the parks fee thing (IMHO).

This post brought to you by the punctuation mark "?"

Drift — April 4, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola, such disgust, dislike, hate you talk about vancouver, why do you even live here? why did you move here?

jasonb — April 4, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Where are the youthful voices in this endless CRC argument?

I see a heck of a lot of them laughing and enjoying new food business in the city Uptown and Downtown: Torque coffee; the Mighty Bowl truck; the Low Bar (best hand-formed burgers I have ever tasted outside my dad's); Tiger Lily's (where there is amazing amateur drag queen night and karaoke each week) and more good burgers and bites.

They are having fun while we wear each other out. They are waiting for us to collapse from the weight of our collective hot air along the roadside and sidewalks, trying to shuffle our way to our umpteenth anti/pro (you chose your favorite) CRC rally so they can step over our beaten and battered bodies, fresh and lively, and take over this mess-of-a-government.

I'd so love to hear more young voices in the mix at these rallies and in City Hall and the Clark County Service Center. Right now, it is a blue hair convention, an ad for Geritol and Alberto VO5.

Before you bite off my digital head, I am not discounting the elders' voices. I just wanna hear from the kids for a change.

manthou — April 4, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"My prediction is that they will migrate to emerging economies if the situation does not improve here if they want to succeed."

They'll probably have to.

•Lower-wage occupations constituted 21 percent of recession losses, but 58 percent of recovery growth;
•Mid-wage occupations constituted 60 percent of recession losses, but only 22 percent of recovery growth;
•Higher-wage occupations constituted 19 percent of recession job losses, and 20 percent of recovery growth.

mrd — April 4, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Guys, I just got a letter from a Phyllis Schlafly wanting me to send her money and to sign a "Conservative Activist Pledge" to "oppose any and all efforts by Karl Rove, his new "moderate" SuperPAC, and the entire Republican Establishment to decide who are Republican nominees and to purge conservative activists from the Republican Party".

She said I should sign this and make the check out to the "Eagle Forum".

The letter enclosed says "The battle for control of the Republican Party has begun and I am asking you to answer the call to action".

Sorry, Phyllis but I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys and gals destroy yourselves. It should be a great show.

hawkeye — April 4, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 4, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.

Why would you destroy perfectly good industrial property with working manufacturers pulling in millions of dollars annually when just up the road (Grand Blvd.), prime real estate is opening up soon for future businesses??? I'm speaking of the area around Officer's Row, Holyc....a beautiful place to set up some classic condos WITH views AND out of the flood plain. You're speaking of a "prettier view" with regards to eliminating the workforce in a historic be replaced with another "Waterfront Project" such as the one soon to break ground on the old Boise Cascade property. East of the Columbia Business Center is a nice condominum zone as is west. The city can't even afford to repair the walkways at this time. What makes you think they would if such industrial places were ousted in order to make more "nice" condominums???

You speak about the removal of park fees and the starvation of young children, yet you want families blasted with tolls and fees and more taxes in order to pay for the I-5 crossing project...and that one's billions of dollars more out of the mouths of babes, holyc. You're contradicting yourself.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal claim what I speak of "means very little and it is last century stuff. Nothing to do with "future or progress"." Guess you couldn't grasp onto the message I was sharing, explaining what it is that has changed since the first log was put into the ground at the original Fort. Guess you haven't noticed the broken planning design here in our county, allowing pocket neighborhoods only a few could afford, HD mini communities with empty shops beneath them...they're outdated. Building HD communities with no parking space available in order to push people into mass transit is already failing in Portland, so why would we want it here?

In a community such as ours butted up against Portland and all their weirdness, we have to keep a stronghold onto what we already have and increase marketability. You aren't the only river rat on the river. Being a relative of a river rat who has taken their yacht to places beyond the Columbia River...places some have never seen and probably never will...find the industrial site...the Columbia Business just another segment of progress and a working, diverse industrialized zone. There's a lot better places east of I-205 worth viewing as well as west of the Port of Vancouver.

Sometimes, people see progress one way and others see it another way...and progress continues to grow in our county. No condos or shopping malls along the waterfront will be a move towards progress.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*In a GOP race in South Carolina there wasn't one person, out of sixteen candidates, more qualified than disgraced gov Mark Sanford last month? W T H*

JohnCasey — April 4, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

A must see. Classic Colbert!

**Colbert Blasts 'Morning Joe' For Supporting Mark Sanford (VIDEO)**

nailingit — April 4, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 4, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.

Dubai architecture??? glehcth...!!! Overcrowded, no vegetation, manmade islands taking up valuable oceanic landscape, concrete masses galore??? And how long did you say you've lived in this area, holyc???

No, No, No...(said rapidly). You seem to forget the label Vancouver has, according to the National Arbor Day Foundation. Vancouver is Tree City, USA and has earned national recognition for their green canopy multiple times. To turn us into a concrete monolith such as Dubai is NOT the city of the future. Dubai was a desert before and will always be. We live near the most beautiful temperate rainforest and people have been coming from all areas of the nation...of the world in fact, to live in our region. We're not inundated by heavy snows. The humidity is livable. We're not a dust bowl. Things grow well here. To destroy that feature is to destroy a living habitat.

Regarding the three say they're expendable. Please explain that to the 1500+ workers, would ya. Also...please tell me where you think these three companies and any future companies should relocate since that's in your utopian plans of cement and glass.

Holyc...sorry friend, but I can't buy your idea this time around. Not everybody wants to live in a high rise condo...especially in an earthquake prone/flood prone area. It's just not going to happen the way you imagine. As far as telecommuters...that's already happening. It's not something new. And there's more. These telecommuters...they're partially responsible for the decrease in traffic across the I-5 Bridges. I'm not sure if you were aware of that. And holyc...those service jobs you speak of are only part of the equation. How many of those jobs you speak are tied into international trade...offshore goods??? You see holyc, without manufacturing, there wouldn't be service jobs. We still need to bring in more factory jobs and with those factory jobs comes the construction/reconstruction/improvement job sector. To turn Clark County into one which only houses service jobs through telecommuting would turn CC into a sleeper P-town off branch. That's exactly what our county does not need.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal continue -

To increase in architectural design vertically, the City of Vancouver has height restrictions, not only for Pearson, but for that wittl, itty bitty international airport on the south side of the Columbia River. Don't expect that to change unless you can convince the folks at PDX to move their airport as well.


Do you realize that the people of the west are adventure seekers? Do you really think we want to stay locked in a city within a city...never to go nowhere in order to fulfill the dreams of architects and city leaders? Those "futuristic" buildings which are self containing may work in some regions...but I'd hardly expect those to be a success except for folks up there in age and for those who have issues with mobility. Do we need to become a metro??? Holyc...if someone is telecommuting from their home, chances are...they're not going to be locked up in some city development. Give me a telecommuting job and I guarantee ya...I'd be as far away from the city center as possible...and I'm not alone in my argument.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Off topic, but timely and important. I met a woman this week who lost a young relative to "bad heroin." She is well-connected to this community and gives more than she takes, in case someone wants to start blaming the victim here.

Anyway, she mentioned that the law enforcement officers told her that this kid's death is the 16th, yes sixteenth in Clark County this MONTH from a bad batch of the stuff.

So, why have we not heard about this? We have heard about another death, a young woman, but no others.

Any reporters sniffing around this?

manthou — April 4, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Finally...holyc, we are Vancouver. We don't need to rock the world. We need to bank on our local attributes before going out on a limb, trying to be something we aren't. Maybe the Boise Cascade Project...even with its flaws is a step in the right direction, given that there would be enough people to take the bite and live and work on that space. That project will improve a small segment of the south end of the core of downtown Vancouver, but the fact remains...there's grain towers and port operations just to the west and a bridge to the east. Eyesores to many. Should we remove those as well in order to obtain that utopian city of the future??? Anybody who has ever lived under the flight pattern within five miles of an international airport will tell's noisy; it's smelly; things get knocked off shelves (I should know...relatives and friends experienced that day in and day out). It has its flaws...but at least they're banking on an improvement of the waterfront, including a marina and waterfront shops as well as commercial businesses and living spaces all in one. The air traffic may get in the way of celebrations with the noise of the jets (as well as noise from I-5, including noise cannons to scare the starlings and pigeons which will continue even if the bridge were replaced).

Your the right location, they sound good...truly inspirational, but they just won't work for Vancouver. Maybe one or two ideas thrown in the pot on the east side of town...maybe.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 4, 2013 at 4:44 p.m.

I so hate to hear of people succumbing to the ills of narcotic abuse...and what is even worse is when we hear of bad batches (which any narcotic of any kind is a bad batch, but I hope you understand what I mean), even more toxic than the first, poisoning our children. I am fortunate my children haven't ever been interested in narcotics use...but when I speak of poisoning our children, I speak of the children of our society as a whole. I think you're right...more media exposure is needed. These creeps selling this garbage need to be stopped. This isn't just a police issue. It's a community issue and it's about time the entire community addresses the problem. It's a tragedy what this woman has had to unimaginable loss of the worst kind...losing your child - especially to drugs. If anybody's to's not just one person's fault. It is definitely society as a whole. Too many want to close their eyes to the issues plaguing society. People would rather close their curtains, lock the doors and find something else to occupy their time rather than deal with what is going on directly in front of them and trying to do something about it. We've become a blind society. It's no wonder the political leaders are having a heyday with our lives.

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Yes. So grateful to have children that made healthy choices. But it didn't happen in a vacuum, as you could probably agree. Sometimes it is just plain luck.

I have to post this fun video, a parody review on the rumored new Facebook phone. So many of us here refused to take that kool aid bait, you will absolutely love this. It was posted today on The Stranger:

manthou — April 4, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi holycrapola -
It is very refreshing to have a voice like yours speak up. I have been reading your comments for awhile now and just wanted to say "Thank You' for your well thought out perspective on things.

agourmet — April 4, 2013 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, just for you.... remember?

hawkeye — April 4, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye...nailingit — April 2, 2013 at 12:23 a.m. :))

nailingit — April 4, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 4, 2013 at 4:44 p.m.

One of the many reasons a good argument can be made for legalization. We should treat this as a medical situation rather than criminal.

We should invest resources into education and rehabilitation, rather than LE budgets and prisons.

I know it's a controversial subject, but a subject worth discussing as a nation.

But we still haven't recovered from electing a black President. :(

nailingit — April 4, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 4, 2013 at 4:43 p.m

"Do you really think we want to stay locked in a city within a city...never to go nowhere in order to fulfill the dreams of architects and city leaders? Those "futuristic" buildings which are self containing may work in some regions...but I'd hardly expect those to be a success except for folks up there in age and for those who have issues with mobility."

Have you checked to see how *fast* the condos sold around Esther Short Park? They are 'high-end' in design, and costly, especially those on the north side of the park, but folks were and are willing to pay. People live in the heart of a town because of...well, that heartbeat of city life, that thrum of energy... moving, dynamic, exciting, varied, and with endless options, and all within walking distance. And, while Vancouver's city center does not compare with Portland's river-front condos and high rise towers, many people want that lifestyle. They've lived in suburbia while schooling there children and doing the music lessons & soccer games, but they want opera, music festivals, restaurants, libraries, indie films, food trucks, markets, shops, artists, and whatever else a city lifestyle provides. Yes, there is HOA fees but NO maintenance. That lifestyle is very attractive to large groups of young professionals, college students, and empty nesters, just to name a few. Already, those that live in condos around the waterfront in Vancouver have some lifestyle shops, restaurants, and the whole of the waterfront park areas.

jacjak — April 4, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

condo's, eh....?

i live in a single-story house. its got a tiny front yard that grows grass, moss and a bunch of different spring bulbs. beyond my property is an old 2-lane road, then wetlands (think cattails, duck nests and major bird activity).

my southern property line is about 5 feet from my house. my northern line is larger, about 100-150 feet (it curves). my property line is a tiny stream. it's been planted and rock-lined and is beautiful. tall trees, mature ferns and cherry and plum trees bloom in this part of the lawn.

my western property line ends at the edge of a duck pond. 12 months of the year ducks. i see tons of migrating birds stopping in for a little rest and some quick hunting. the blue heron and the osprey are my favs.

now, why in the name of sanity would i want to live in a glass box near the river??

DeeLittle — April 4, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

agourmet — April 4, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.

You are aware of the political ideas of totalitarian? Centralised planning? Private property ownership? Freely entering into contracts? Personal liberty?

DeeLittle — April 4, 2013 at 9:31 p.m.

Yep. Exactly. (See above).

kn_dalai — April 4, 2013 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 4, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.

You want to see what "progress" is? Go to Portland and see what they have put up on the river, South of the Ross Island Bridge. There are several big buildings, apartments that are the ugliest pieces of garbage built anywhere. None of them compliment each other, in fact I think they tried to make them look as opposite from each other as possible. They look terrible as a "community". Also, the funny thing is, the last time we had a fast melt on the mountain, (I think about 1998) that whole area flooded, several feet deep.

hawkeye — April 4, 2013 at 11:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've lived in apartment buildings in NYC, Phoenix, LA and on military bases around the world. I cannot fathom why anyone would voluntarily seek that living condition. Cramped quarters. Can't turn the music up loud, or an idiot neighbor who wants to do same at midnight. Having to hear your neighbors' arguments and personal life issues. Can't open the windows at night to get a cool breeze, because the traffic and night life keep you awake. Having to wait on an elevator, or deal with someone who thinks pushing the Door Hold button and walking off is fun. Having to walk up several flights with groceries because the elevator is down - again. Having to get permission and pay outrageous fees to have a pet. And this list can be extended indefinitely.

Dee did a good job listing some of the pluses of single home living. Let me add raking the leaves from your front yard on an autumn day - and then being chastised by your 5 year old neighbor for doing so because she thinks they look pretty on the ground. Priceless.

If you want to live in the city - move there. Don't try to bring it here.

roger — April 5, 2013 at 5:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This link shows job losses, businesses closing, bankruptcies, bank failures, business and economy news, etc..

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On another note,..

How about discussing Pet Peeves?

One of mine is those who uses the letter O instead of the number 0 when giving their phone number or address.
Just to tick them off I always is that a 6 or a zero?
There is always a moment of hesitation from them before they answer. Like their brain can't wrap around what was just asked.

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 5, 2013 at 4:44 a.m

First off, Dude! what are you doing up so early?

Those were nice pics but even you don't buy that they actually look good because of those, do you? Get on your scoot the next nice day and take a ride over the Marquam and take a look at the cluster of ugly they have put up over there. Oh and the LRT is going in as well as the trolly car. Talk about packing them in.

hawkeye — April 5, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I have enjoyed the conversation about living space choices here: Clark County offers an entire array for all tastes, thankfully.

I mentioned the trend to "apodments" in bigger cities like Seattle and San Francisco. The reasoning behind this small-space movement? Young people do most of their "living" in the community: in classes, in coffee shops, bars, restaurants, libraries, etc. These affordable little spaces are filling up fast and some neighborhoods in Seattle want them stopped.

I think they would be great near Clark Community College or WSU Vancouver.

Just another option on the living menu for our growing diverse population.

Take a tour of one on Publicola (my favorite online source of Seattle news) here:

[link text][1]


manthou — April 5, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jon Stewart Scoffs At 'Fox News' Response To Fired Rutgers Coach **(VIDEO)**

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How ridiculous it is when people say this President won't compromise. Wake up! Republicans want obstruction. Just ask the few baggers who post here.

**Liberal groups threaten primaries over Obama budget**

*Progressives, furious with Obama's proposal to cut Social Security and Medicare, put Democrats on notice*

Today may mark a nadir in the often strained relations between President Obama and the “professional left,” as Robert Gibbs derisively called the progressive movement, which has been pushing for months to prevent Obama from endorsing cuts to the social safety net. When the White House released its budget today, it was clear the president hadn’t listened to the increasingly urgent threats and pleadings from the people who helped elect him, as his spending proposal includes a change to the way Social Security benefits are calculated, called the chained CPI, as well as changes to Medicare.

The cut is anathema to liberal activists and lawmakers, who have gone all in to oppose the cut, warning Obama would face a “huge backlash” from his own base if he endorsed it. Now they’re threatening primary challenges against any Democrats who vote for their president’s budget.

“You can’t call yourself a Democrat and support Social Security benefit cuts,” said Stephanie Taylor, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, a group which endorses liberals in primaries, sometimes against establishment picks. “The president is proposing to steal thousands of dollars from grandparents and veterans by cutting cost of living adjustments, and any congressional Democrat who votes for such a plan should be ready for a primary challenge. Social Security is the core of the progressive and Democratic legacy. The President has no mandate to cut these benefits, and progressives will do everything possible to stop him.”

Read more @

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning everyone. With Washington putting forth a bare bones budget a friend of mine sent me this link.. Most everyone knows how bad our roads are and that maintenence is the states high priority...With that said maybe we should change how we get our tax dollars to pay for things like road maintenenec and improvements..

vanwadreamer — April 5, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 5, 2013 at 9:37 a.m.

Interesting link. "Apodments" must be the new catch phrase for the old standards: studio / bachelor apartments.

agourmet — April 5, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I am done with Obama*

holycrapola — April 5, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.

You never started. But I get where you are coming from. America has a ginormous system and democracy isn't always a pretty thing. Change comes slow, and in many instances it's slow for a reason.

Obama's negotiating from the middle again and has done many things I don't agree with. Many times it's the lesser of two evils, as is certainly the case with Democrat v Republican in these current times. Not to be involved, not to vote or throw away ones vote in protest doesn't cut it. Not if you want change.

Personal rebuilding and rewrecking is one thing, at a national level it's another and requires process. The process is far from perfect, but compared to other nations I'll take it and be a part of the process that causes change, via voting, activism, etc., it's the only system we have and at least has that old yellowed document penned by elite slave owners to frame it.

Talk is one thing, but real results are another. I mean what the hell, as a people we can't even hold recently elected public officials like Madore accountable. How could there possibly be a plan B? I.Q. levels, bias, skewed ideologies..they all affect our ability to achieve good governance, and if not for any other reason demand our attention.

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“You can’t call yourself a Democrat and support Social Security benefit cuts,” said Stephanie Taylor, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, a group which endorses liberals in primaries, sometimes against establishment picks. “The president is proposing to steal thousands of dollars from grandparents and veterans by cutting cost of living adjustments, and any congressional Democrat who votes for such a plan should be ready for a primary challenge. Social Security is the core of the progressive and Democratic legacy. The President has no mandate to cut these benefits, and progressives will do everything possible to stop him.”

So much for bipartisanship.

mrd — April 5, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So much for bipartisanship.

mrd — April 5, 2013 at 1:13 p.m.

mrd-Stephanie Taylor is to be held up as a standard and Democratic voice of compromise? She's not even an elected official. Your remark is something I would expect to hear on Fox news.

How about the proposed budget as an example? Something with consequence?

People, we can do better than this. I don't care if you're old, young or in between. Lay aside the BS, put on your thinking cap and look around you. Understand it and build on it for Christ's sake.

In much part it was for apathy's sake that produced the debacle of 2010.

Wake up!

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is anyone even paying attention to the proposed budget deal and republican reaction?

Wake up!

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obama Budget Is Dismissed by G.O.P. and Attacked by Left**

The House speaker, John A. Boehner, on Friday waved aside reports that President Obama would seek a new budget compromise next week, accusing the president of again demanding tax increases in exchange for “modest entitlement savings.”

“If the president believes these modest entitlement savings are needed to help shore up these programs, there’s no reason they should be held hostage for more tax hikes,” Mr. Boehner said. “That’s no way to lead and move the country forward.”

At the same time, liberals quickly vented their anger about Mr. Obama’s plans, saying they would not accept changes to Social Security and Medicare that would threaten the programs and harm beneficiaries.

“Evidently the president either does not understand or does not care how critically important Social Security and Medicare are, not just to seniors but to middle-aged and younger workers for whom these programs are likely to be even more crucial,” said Eric Kingson, co-chair of the Strengthen Social Security Coalition.

“President Obama’s plan to cut Social Security would harm seniors who worked hard all their lives,” said Anna Galland, the executive director of “Under this plan, a typical 80-year-old woman would lose the equivalent of three months’ worth of food every year. That’s unconscionable.”

Ms. Galland added: “It’s even more outrageous given that Republicans in Congress aren’t even asking for this Social Security cut. This time, the drive to cut Social Security is being led by President Obama and Democrats.”

For the president, the budget proposal — which comes two months later than the president is required by law to release the budget — appears to be another attempt to test whether Republicans could accept further tax increases under any circumstances.

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wasn't implying she spoke for anyone-just commenting on her comment-nothing else.

mrd — April 5, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Better Living Through Organics Series*

I blame the main stream media in part, but information is too easy to access these days.

Is anyone paying attention to the harm sequestration is starting to cause?

Does anyone know or even take the time to understand how sequestration was brought about?

Do people understand Obama overwhelmingly won the 2012 election? Democrats gained not lost seats in 2012? Yet Republican obstruction carries on without outrage?

Anyone been paying attention to congressional obstruction confirming federal judges? They are historic!

Obama's willing to upset his base big time for the betterment of America as he sees it. It's called compromise. This is the type of leadership Republicans said he doesn't have. Now what are they going to do with it. Will they have the political courage to do the same with their base with regards to revenue? Are they smart enough to understand?

It's too easy to kick back and daydream how things should be. Reality needs to be addressed with reality, to include a pathway for change.

Personally, I think recreational drug use might be a good thing for many basement dwellers, just sayin'. And I don't mean that to be insulting. They might help break through those pre-determined thought barriers so many are bound with when it comes to change.

Open some Doors...


nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 5, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.

You function on Eastern Time??? Hmm...I'm beginning to wonder if you're the high-capacity transit affiliate from New York who used to argue with me a couple years back, trying to sell me the idea of light rail in Vancouver. You don't have any vested interests in the crossing project or in property investments in the area now, do you? The way you sure sound like him!

The facts are straight up, holyc...we cannot build up on those mega housing projects you dream. Washington is the Evergreen State and Vancouver thrives on keeping it green. A good example of what can be done is the new library in downtown. Yeah, it looks a bit boxy, but the trend...LEED certification and low-maintenance landscape, porous concrete parking, windows around the perimeter for passive solar energy...that my friend, is the trend here. Not everybody wants to fit into a box stacked on a box and stacked on another box and so on and so forth. Most people who have moved to the county have done so because there's still space and it's within earshot of work. We LIKE our space. BTW, have you checked to see what the vacancy numbers are in the condos along the waterfront? They aren't cheap, you know holyc...and flooding IS an issue which plagues the waterfront condos annually (except for drought years). Hardly worth the price they charge. Also, have you noticed the waterfront real estate for sale lately??? A lot of those "estates" have had signs in front of them for two years, now. A sign of possible bank foreclosures and drop in value...more underwater mortgages??? Excuse the pun.

Accessibility to our natural resources...the mountains, the streams, the lakes, the country...still far quicker here than in Portland. The natural resources and their value of our county is what makes ours different from Multnomah or Washington Counties. To turn it into a megalopolis like you propose would ruin the intrinsic value of our county.

Also...I come from a long line of family members with members who have surpassed the century mark in age. With that in consideration, I can easily say I've barely lived half my life and am still living life to the fullest. Just recently had a physical and passed with flying colors...thanks in part to the foods I eat and the lifestyle of choice. Sorry to burst your bubble on trying to consider me as old. Nice try, though.

goldenoldie — April 5, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**So Where's the Pain From Sequester Cuts?**

Remember all the draconian warnings about how the sequester was going to devastate the American economy?

From the President on down, officials in Washington and around the country predicted massive job losses, cutbacks in consumer spending, and slow economic growth if the mandatory cuts— $85 billion in defense and discretionary spending starting March 1 — went into effect.

But a little over four weeks later, Social Security checks are still going out, long lines at airports have yet to surface and the sky hasn't fallen — at least not yet.

"It was overblown by everyone, from Republicans and Democrats," said Timothy Nash, professor of economics at Northwood University.

So what happened? Well, this isn't to say there's been no pain from sequestration. There has been.

But most of the immediate government furloughs and layoffs were delayed when Congress reached a deal in late March to fund the government through the end of the fiscal year.

That continuing resolution (CR) moved money around inside many government departments that avoided the more serious reductions in staffing. But those larger cuts or furloughs could still happen in the summer as well as the fall.

But make no mistake, some are already on the boards. (Read More: Sequester Hasn't Hit Jobs Yet: Goldman's Hatzius)

For more:|mod∥=xfinity

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal have been promoting huge condominiums, concentrated living areas with all the amenities yet on another breath, you're complaining about the corruption of big businesses and such. So tell me this...why would you want those corrupt entities building on our land, here??? You condemn them for cheating, stealing and lying yet you want them to come here and build their monoliths to resemble something like Dubai? Have you even checked to see just who is building those eyesores???

A Double Standard???

goldenoldie — April 5, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey's a pet peeve of mine...

People who claim to live here and roam around the city and waterways, acting like they care about their city and county...and they're lying through their teeth in order to promote their agenda.


People who claim they know what's good for us and pushes the use of recreational drugs in order to get us to agree to their flawed agenda.


ANYBODY who uses the word "Aksing" instead of "Asking."

and last but not least...

The popular term lately..."muh baby daddy!"

goldenoldie — April 5, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> People who claim they know what's good for us and pushes the use of recreational drugs in order to get us to agree to their flawed agenda.

goldenoldie — April 5, 2013 at 5:48 p.m

How should I say this? - you really nailed it:):):):):):)

It also explains a lot, and always has.

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Working on Eastern Time probably has many reasons.
The Stock Market, with it's opening bell at 6:30 Pacific Time is one I can think of.

jacjak — April 5, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*People who claim they know what's good for us and pushes the use of recreational drugs in order to get us to agree to their flawed agenda.*

I'm right here. If you're going to bark about someone, don't be afraid to bite. You're always picking a fight.....yet always the victim. Shhh

*It also explains a lot, and always has.*

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

The caveat being those who can't chew bubble gum and walk at the same time should be the exception with drugs. I suppose applicable to the socially stunted as well.

Maybe someday you'll quit hiding behind a skirt. You got something to say I'm right here.

Basement conservatives, always the victim, yet always sticking their collective chins out for attention.

A slow day I guess.....

Somebody throw em' a Beck coffee cup or something. Make em' happy.

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_d- We've discussed before your penchant for hiding behind conservative skirts in the basement. You use the conspiracy crazed old and broken to gain support for a message which carries nothing but personal insult. Again. You are quite the charmer.

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So much for a "not trying to be insulting" disclaimer, people who love to avatar fight don't care. They'll find something.

And I limited my message to basements dwellers.

If you're going to act like a complete dope, you might as well be on it.

Now kn_d, go pick a fight with a basement female liberal, it's what you usually do anyway. Not that you fair any better because you never do.

Especially in your latest emotional comeback from vying never to post again. Again, not the time before or the time before that.



nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No, I'm not picking a fight. Nor have we ever discussed some supposed penchant I have, for hiding behind skirts. I see things quite the opposite. It is not me, nor has it ever been me, that constantly derides others, and links to one rag after another, after another. All day, day after day. Really, you need to get your head together and finally realize your extreme, and bitter outlook.

And your comment(s) about drug use speaks for itself.


Now, here's what I was going to say before I was so rudely interrupted.

The issue of some the Founding Fathers, who were slave owners, has come up time and again here, and elsewhere.

Slavery was a lamentable evil, long before the Founding Fathers came on the scene. So just what were they to do? They worked out a 20 year compromise on the importation on new slaves, and after that things finally came to a head.

Would the South have joined the Union if the new constitution outlawed slavery? I sure don’t think so. Then what? Just how would any of that have benefited the slaves? No one is going to side with the slave trade, but just what was supposed to have happened?

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That's what I thought.

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another pet peeve of mine is people who say "ish"

Like 7-ish, or 12-ish, to me that is as bad as squeaky chalk on a blackboard.

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 8:06 p.m.

Well, EL. I'll bet you already know my "pet peeve" but I'll take a go at it. First, misspelling. Specifically, adults that don't know the difference between "your" and "you're". I know I'm not perfect but I try really hard to get it right. And then there are those that just don't try. Hate that.

hawkeye — April 5, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Hawkeye, like the uses of "Then" and Than" ?

ELISI — April 5, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 8:05 p.m.

Another non sequitur. Once again. Well at least you claim to think:):):):):):) Who'd a thunk:):):):):)

You've been upset at me ever since I told you a few weeks ago, twice I think, that your bizzare behavior made you irrelevant. If you remember, you stated that one must first be relevant, in order to become irrelevant. I take it that you agreed with me.

Think there's any truth to that? And of course, you're back to your Alinsky thing of just throw it in some one's face.

You are correct, in that I have previously stated two or three times that I was leaving this little forum. Lashing out at someone with any petty little thing you can come up with I guess. Yes I'm still here, but generally with less frequency. Bad habits are hard to break.

Now since you mentioned about the Founding Fathers being slave holders, perhaps you would like to tell everyone how things were supposed to work about that and the Constitutional Convention.

Perhaps you would actually care to offer some thought worthy opinion.

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*You've been upset at me ever since I told you a few weeks ago, twice I think, that your bizzare behavior made you irrelevant. If you remember, you stated that one must first be relevant, in order to become irrelevant. I take it that you agreed with me.*

Comin' out from mama's skirt? Don't trip..and you know we've discussed you .. *skirting* issues before.

*You've been upset at me*

You remind me of the conservative senior women who post here always claiming to have upset someone...(shh, I think it makes them feel good) but you're special though, citing non sequitur than delivering the same with no shame, that is if you understand what you're saying.

What is it you like to do..Who'd a thunk:):):):):)

You guys who always fight to get attention don't get it. You're of no consequence to become upset over. Only a massive ego indulges such delusion. Fascinating, but certainly understandable.

You've stated several times in the past, (usually during one of your emotional tirades before you promise never to post again) that you can't understand why people listen to me. My self deprecating nature spoke to your relevancy remark, but you know that.

*I take it that you agreed with me.*

Of course. You have to. You take yourself with such seriousness, if you don't stroke you very significant ego than who would. (My God the lengths some go)..

*your Alinsky thing*

Again, you just don't understand how weird you sound. Outside of your back pocket constitution carrying secret decoder ring bubble crowd,... you just don't get you?

*Bad habits are hard to break.*

You don't even try.

*Now since you mentioned about the Founding Fathers being slave holders, perhaps you would like to tell everyone how things were supposed to work about that and the Constitutional Convention.*

Is that a directive, suggestion, or just one of your piddly stick your chin out moments. Either way, you fancy yourself as some crackerjack constitutional authority, let your ego shine baby, push your pencil and grab your chalk, teach us what it's all about.

Finish your class you started at 7:53 before your highness was so "rudely interrupted". :)

Knowing you haven't got a clue as to how our constitution should apply in today's democracy, no doubt much the past for that matter, you go right ahead, feed your need for attention and teach the basement the finer things about slavery.

Vantuckian style!

You got the floor...

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ahh...misuse of grammar

*less* is a quantity, *fewer* is a number
*there are fewer tomatoes in the first bag than in second one. there is less ketchup in my packet than in his.*

**REVIEW WHEN TO ADD "-LY" TO A WORD** when using as an adjective or adverb.

i would ban the following phrase: "The fact of the matter is...." unless it's said by some science wonk, IT'S AN OPINION, PEOPLE.

DeeLittle — April 5, 2013 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope you do a better job than when I called you out in class.

So many think they know so much when they know so little.

Hey, that's a little like your silly ..........extreme bias is bias extremely or something like that remark. Feel free to use what I said instead. Your smarmy catch phrasing is quite .. *stuffy* and in need of new material.

It's all good! :)

Keep it real, and if all you know is what you know then scratch that itch baby.

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Peeve - hardly ever order soda, but it's either Pepsi OR*Emphasis* Coke at restaurants.

Peeve - people who speak either of themselves, or for themselves, in the plural.

Peeve - people wearing too much fragrance.

jacjak — April 5, 2013 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's hardly me that goes on emotional tirades. Good Gawd bud. Get a handle on yourself.

Now, just what do you think would have happened if the original constitution would have included the abolition of slavery? Hmmm?


Affect and effect. Often confused. But my favorite is: its and it's. Still difficult for me to remember which is which.

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I thought to help you with talking points. Your own two feet apparently are unable to.. collectively stand on their own at the moment.

Proceed Governor...

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Do you superstitious folk say Gawd, because you think lightning is going to strike or something if you know.......G-o-d?

I'm always intrigued when engaging a conservative.



Holy Almighty Good........................Gawd...!

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 10:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What’s your point? Your two links have nothing at all to do with the question I posed.

Everyone knows how many of the Founding Fathers were opposed to slavery. Even some of the slave holding framers of the constitution, knew they had a tiger by the tail and there would be a price to pay in the years to come.

Your second link has nothing to do with anything. I’ve never heard of the concept of selling oneself into “slavery” for an agreed upon lifetime compensation, rather than a monthly salary. Seems rather bizzare to me.

Now: just what do you think would have happened if the Constitution would have outlawed slavery? Would the southern states have ratified the thing and joined the union, or would they have gone their own way? If they went their own way – then what?

kn_dalai — April 5, 2013 at 11:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You're getting it k_nd....a few more steps...and you'll grab the golden ring.

It is, isn't it. About the God thing. You're really afraid something bad will happen to you.

Like a car crash or something. Totally absurd! God God God! See? You may rest easy now.

Conservatives...what a wacky bunch!

How ridiculous.

How can you begin to understand events which happened centuries ago if you're foolish enough to believe something like...?...;=iv&src;_vid=zB4YGalBnd0&v;=_BeONy0_G_k

Oh My ...Gawd.....!!!

nailingit — April 5, 2013 at 11:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In my case, when Matt was here, he was a stickler. I don't know if he would have deleted someone for using the word God, in a certain context or not. I usually use the word Gawd to convey same.


Now, what do you think would have happened if the original constitution had outlawed slavery? It's a very simple question Saul.

kn_dalai — April 6, 2013 at 12:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

living in vancouver is a lot like living in a wildlife refuge. it's as perfect as it gets.

sometimes, though, i really begin to miss the unique treasures that can only be found in Home. for me, it's los angeles.

i have two memories of my home town i long to re-experience.

the breathtaking sunsets on the santa monica beach in the winter. it's cold, no people around. but, at juuust the right time, the sun slips under the clouds into clear sky, turning the whole horizon diffrent shades of gold all the way to the dark blue edge.

the other is the holding pattern of LAX at night. the famous 'urban spread' of LA becomes a land of glittering lights. everywhere. tall ones from buildings, round little light-ponds where the mansions are.

and those flowing rivers of light..white and red. thick, wide... branching out and joining other light rivers.

it's magical.

DeeLittle — April 6, 2013 at 2:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc: I was impressed with the Press Talk teaser today, as well. Politically there is an epic struggle going on in Clark County and it is the spawn of a concept called "confrontational politics." My new BFF tea party legislative pal tried to school me on his view of the world by gifting me this little manifesto. Google it. It explains so much. We have two adherents to this philosophy on the Clark County Commission and it is dragging us down, down, and back into a time warp.

Editor Lou makes a passing point that bears emphasis: The management of newspapers and the newsroom are two separate entities, in theory. Remember all those spendy ads for Rob McKenna that the Seattle Times Company paid for? The newsroom had a cow, just like most of us did, over that. How can their reporters be trusted to produce, fair, accurate, and balanced stories? Their reputations were damaged by association, they screamed. Well, a good publisher will stay out of the newsroom, at least in terms of dictating what prints and what is killed.

Cannot wait for this series. I am impressed that the newspaper put a little cash into a scientific poll.

I did not get questioned. I am wondering though, did nailingit? Remember when he mentioned answering a CRC question by some pollster?

Nail? Are you up?

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — April 6, 2013 at 2:55 a.m.

Oh did you bring back a wonderful memory for me with your post when you mentioned the "holding pattern" view of the lights of LA at night!!! I was fortunate enough to experience that moment as we returned in the wee hours of the morning USA time, from our trip to Aussie (geez, it's been three years this week already...seems like yesterday). Your description of the lights over the on, on!!!

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.

**Drumroll, please...**

And the scope of the scientific poll will include...

City of Vancouver?

Clark County?

Clark County AND Multnomah County?

Preselected poll seekers?

A Random Selection with absolutely no idea whether or not the voters or homeowner/landowners/commuters who use the bridge or work in downtown Vancouver were chosen?

Results of random polls already taken?'ll be interesting. Hopefully those selected won't be as *"random"* as those who sat on the advisory boards.

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Indeedy yes.

I would guess, since folks in all of Clark County have been crying for a vote, that the folks polled live in Clark County.

How many were polled and how random it is reflects on the integrity of the pollster. So, I assume they adhere to best practices science with regards to polls, or else their business would not be credible.

An entire week of waiting. Great way to drum up suspense, Lou B.

Te salute.

Apologies to The Turk.

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc...remember this wonderful quote by Carlton Sears :

"Progress flourishes when trust replaces doubt. Without trust, bitterness and blame take hold, and the capacity to move forward together submerges."

Our local leaders, TriMet and the Media have not earned our trust in the Columbia River Crossing Project. The facts outweigh the propaganda hyped by those who developed the current environmental impact statement due to the fact that much of the data collected in the FEIS is inaccurate and outdated (for a bridge with a clearance of 95' rather than 125' which the USCG stated in the beginning) and those who were in charge of the resulting FEIS have done so in a manner that went way over budget as they taxpayer expense. Trimet is struggling to survive as they continue to work in the red and need the added tax district in order to gain more federal funds. Why else would they be so adamant in obtaining Clark County and are in a legal battle with Clackamas County??? Would you trust a corporation who has been in the RED for so many years to plop themselves in Clark County in order to open business that less than half the people want in order to exchange bus riders for light rail riders? That would be ridiculous and a haphazard attempt which would eventually implode. That's not progress, holyc. Not at all.

The local leaders in support of the crossing project in its current design are fudging in their statements, rendering them untrustworthy and less credible. Some are even questioning whether or not they're competent enough to remain in office. The trust isn't there and won't be as long as they don't take into account the REAL facts and LISTEN to the people....ALL the people, not just the ones who support their political agenda.

Here's the rest of Mr. Sears' statement well worth reading:

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

Yeah..definitely a good way to drum up business but then far as how scientific the poll would be, I refer to my comment to holyc at 8:08 am regarding trust and doubt.

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou on April 4, 2013 at 11:06 a.m., you asked "where are the youthful voices in this endless CRC argument. Well, my appears to me there's a lot more younger faces showing up on the facebook side on any article that has to do with the crossing these days. I also saw several younger faces at the town hall...some who weren't so happy to show applause when the misleading statements were made.

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn_dalai...there must be something in a pet peeve I said yesterday that touched off a flurry of comments which confirmed my suspicions. Shame on me for having an opinion and being hesitant to share it...;P...8O...8)))

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That's good news, goldie, for those of us who want to pass the torch sooner than later. :)

Our anecdotal observations, mine and yours and others here, are not a scientific poll. I hope there are more young people stepping up and chiming in. I do know that there are some young Portlanders who hate the idea of the new bridge and light rail. There are some, like us older folk, who want it.

I would love to see which way we think this poll is going to lean. If we knew the question (must be about light rail), we could place our bets here, kinda like our own little pool.

Anyone want to take a tally this week?

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ooh...Ooh...two more pet peeves -

Distorted facts utilized to push an agenda at the expense of taxpayers (and commuters!!!)


People who are so caught up in their ways, they refuse to comprehend what others have to say. It's their way or no way!!!

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.

I'm game! My thoughts...

It'll be a carefully selected group of about 500.

For the most part, people will want the bridge replaced but will lean towards a replacement without light rail in its current design...possibly without the entire lower deck.

Folks will hesitatingly agree to tolls IF they stay at $2 a day both ways (that is, if the state allows it so that regular commuters only pay one way per day).

goldenoldie — April 6, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail? Are you up?

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.

Just sipping my first cup of coffee manthou. I had this weird dream involving a Nigerian professor mixing yellow cake with widgets. His recipe was designed to create rainbows powered by Libertarian flatulence which would crap all over America.

But in the end...................

You have sparked my interest in Press Talk and I will head over that way.

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: You may be right on all counts. I just cannot predict what this poll will reveal myself. It will create a healthy discussion, though.

What did you think of Editor Lou's photo of the bridge today? I really thought it was artsy and excellent as a mood-generator: kinda looming and ominous. Evoked the same kind of emotions I used to get when I drove past Trojan nuclear power plant all those many years ago.

Very David Lynch of you, Lou. Impressive. :)

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- I haven't been polled since the one I spoke of. Perhaps this is it?


I have noticed something about the CRC conversation in the basement. If one produces a pro opinion on a CRC matter, there is an attempt to frame opinion as "agenda".

Let's keep it real folks.

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, nail. What question(s) were you asked by the pollster?

I don't want to wrangle your answers to them from your stubborn hide :). Roger tried, I know.

Can you share the question?

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder how a "scientific poll" would be conducted these days. In years passed, they would have called people at home on the phone but since a lot of people don't have home phones any longer and you cannot tell if someone is local by their number, it makes me wonder just how it's done. Pollsters at the mall or in front of Walmart? I usually avoid those people like the plague. Maybe it's an online poll. Hmmmmmm.


More pet peeves; there, their and they're. I mean really, people. How hard can it be?

Jacjak- YES, about the fragrance. I know some older women use too much because their sense of smell is gone and they put it on until they can smell it, but come on now. Then there is a Casino in Vegas that pumps perfume into the air, they think it's exotic. I think it stinks and won't go there anymore.

hawkeye — April 6, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- The questions were framed in the what *would you support* mode. If I'm remembering correctly. (Not a real big if but..)

Such as would you support a new bridge?

Would you support a new bridge with light rail?

Would you support tolls for a new bridge with light rail?

Would you support raising taxes for a new bridge?

Would you support taxes and/or tolls for a new bridge with light rail?

They wanted to know my age, if I was liberal, moderate or conservative.

I believe a question or two as to personal bridge usage.

They asked me if I would support Vantucky conservatives moving to Portland (and taking Madore and Mielke with them) so they could display their brand of activism in the belly of the beast.

I said oh *God* yes!

Well, maybe that last question wasn't mentioned.

But it should have been. :)

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, nail. I guess we will have to wait for a week to see what questions the C's pollsters probed.

I am looking forward to the controversy it will no doubt spark.

My hope is for the opposite of your joking remark: please let some of the smart and diverse and youthful and progressive pack up their fun family and belongings and settle in Clarkansas, if only for the legal dope and marriage equality. Oh, yes, I nearly forgot: AND run for office and get elected.

I actually wrote Steve Stuart a sympathy thank you this week for putting up with the repressive brick walls on either side of him and for being tenacious, if not entirely successful. What person would want such a job? I'd rather be fill-in-the-blank.....

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.

I was thinking the same thing. Who in their right minds would want Stuart's job right now? It's got to be tough, putting up with frick AND frack. I think a sympathy note is in order.

hawkeye — April 6, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I actually wrote Steve Stuart a sympathy thank you this week for putting up with the repressive brick walls on either side of him and for being tenacious, if not entirely successful. What person would want such a job? I'd rather be fill-in-the-blank.....*

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.

LOL! What an idea! Maybe a duel basement/FB poster could speak of it on the FB side and make this a write in campaign of sorts. *A Lord Have Mercy* theme for Stuart.

Maybe Frick n Frack can open a meeting with the laying on of hands for Stuart.

If God answered Frick & Frack and healed Stuart's ills, we have might have a special election or two!

Clarkansas could make international news!

Let's have this meeting outdoors.

I also hope we can be a home for progressive culture. We could use a fresh perspective in government as well as in other places.

BASEMENT DISCLAIMER!!! **[**Due to conservative craziness and lack of depth or humor, I feel compelled to state that no old people were injured in the making or posting of this video, nor is there any ill intent to politicians we poke fun at in the basement**]**


Man after awhile, ya learn to head these wacko's off at the...L-R crossing.

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody just watch Wichita St. get ripped off on a jump ball call in the last seconds of the game?

You'd think this was Vegas. ;)

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Full disclosure, nailingit: I am an IU alumnus, undergrad and grad. I stopped watching when Syracuse advanced. :(

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just was redirected to a survey about the C. When that happened at the Seattle Times, a paywall was in the works. That ended my accessing that news (not that I miss it).

Please keep your content free on the web, C.

manthou — April 6, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail not all of us that lean to the conservative side are evil.I do believe in a few of the things you progressives believe in.I just feel sorry that you have Moeller as your spoke person.

timerick — April 6, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A History Lesson:

> Here ends today's lesson in world history: It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above before forwarding it. A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals just to piss them off.

[Now THIS is funny and Oh so true][1]


kn_dalai — April 6, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — April 6, 2013 at 8:12 p.m.

Whatever you have with Rep Moeller is between you and him I guess. He seems to articulate his message very well. The other day with the Pike article, his comment was about the only one that made sense and people ignored it. I'm thinking that's why. I suppose it depends on ones point of view. I was amazed at how many found hope in a Bill that will go nowhere.

*Nail not all of us that lean to the conservative side are evil.*

Of course not timerick, and most aren't. Most of us dwell somewhere in the middle politically and hope the best for good governance. Most of us wish our neighbors well, regardless of political affiliation.

That is except for a few who think the role of government is to not exist, or disable/disrupt it to the point those elected are unable to properly represent those who voted them in office.. And not to put you in the middle...


That brings us to this type of mess @ 8:25 in which a few make the rest look childish and unreasonable.

Kind of like yesterdays...

*You've been upset at me ever since I told you*

And my response..*You remind me of the conservative senior women who post here always claiming to have upset someone...(shh, I think it makes them feel good) but you're special though, citing non sequitur than delivering the same with no shame, that is if you understand what you're saying.*

I can't imagine anyone being bothered or "pissed off" with your .. chain letter or joke or what you would call it. :))

I think most would find it amusing that someone of your advanced age would actually find this amusing. I suppose then it would become bemusing and not amusing. Although one's amusement can be another's bemusement, amusingly so.

It's more than understandable why you rarely provide links as to what your reads are. :))

Ahhh....conservatives....what a wacky bunch.


nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There is no plan to extend LRT past Clark College. The Southwest Washington Regional Transportation Council studied Clark Counties needs and compared costs, and our own high capacity transit plan will be Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) augmented by buses. This is planned out to 2030.

So why LRT through the downtown area to Clark College? Portland's reasoning is simple - have the people who live here park here instead of downtown - their city planners want to get rid of cars entirely in the downtown area.

On this side of the river, the answer to this is that Gramor Development entered into an agreement with Vancouver City Council to handle the Waterfront Project development - "Gramor has teamed with a group of local investors to form Columbia Waterfront LLC. In 2008 they acquired the 32-acre site with a vision in mind—returning the title of “Gateway to the Pacific Northwest” to the shores of Vancouver, Washington. Partnership members all have strong roots in the community and are committed to creating a world-class development with sensitivity to the local region and natural environment."

Gramor's plan for the old Boise Cascade lot is a community of apartment buildings with a focus on the upscale young urban professional - in other words, they're going to roll the Pearl District and the McCall Waterfront Park into one here on our side of the river. Light rail has been determined critical to this project - most of the tenants will work in downtown Portland or over in the Beaverton/Hillsboro area. They'll also be part of Portland's nightlife. Separate planning has a trolley running over to the MAX terminal on Washington.

Who are these local investors? I've googled Columbia Waterfront LLC and the names aren't out there. Find those names and you'll have the answer to who REALLY wants and needs light rail.

roger — April 6, 2013 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm seeing little hints that Vancouver is starting to look at annexation for Orchards/Sifton again. Time to start e-mailing the Commissioners and remind them of their 2006 position - No annexation without a vote.

roger — April 6, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy C,

Sorry - I've been busy and never got around to responding. If the people who want to live in a city would do their thing and leave the rest of us alone - no problem. But they don't. They've also got this nice little dream of running BRT out Fourth Plain past SR 503/117th Ave, and having a nice little corridor with apartments and lots of people. That's getting too close to my neighborhood. This is Suburbia - Vancouver City planners can go build their city somewhere else. Hough, Arnada, Shumway, Hudson's Bay, Central Park - all those neighborhoods come to mind. Those are the people who voted for the LRT tax because they subscribe to the Downtown Revitalization projects and want light rail. They need to trade in their single family dwellings and build that little city over on that side of town. Stay away from the east side!!!

roger — April 6, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Editor Lou got my attention for another reason in his article today - one of his comments mentioned Voodoo Doughnuts. This brought back a memory of an All Politics Is Local bit that I think Andrea did - she mentioned Mayor Timmy taking his Italian loafers to a shoe repair shop down in Portland. I was going to drive around the stores in Vancouver today to buy a new TV and DVD player, but said screw it - if those two are going to talk about building our economy, and then run south of the river to shop, then so am I. Saved myself about $100 in taxes. Hey - we're really part of Portland, remember? Slap those tolls on the bridge - A whole lot more money will be flowing southward to help ease that burden.

roger — April 6, 2013 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes, Nails - 3300 apartments (euphemistically called "residential units") crammed into that little area. And a hotel, a bunch of little shops, and maybe even a few offices. No mention of parking garages - I wonder where these people will put their cars? Or perhaps they won't need them - they're just going to hop on the train and go to Portland when they go somewhere. The rest of Vancouver won't exist for them - because we are still going to be Vantucky.

roger — April 6, 2013 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Check page 9 - Where that pretty little city is going to be sits dead on an area considered at high risk in the event of a major earthquake. Soil liquification is a real concern - and when the shoreline drops several feet, the river comes rushing in.

Or do we only mention earthquakes when talking about the old bridge? Is it just possible a new bridge will cause the major 9.0 earthquake to go away and bother someone else?

roger — April 6, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

[testing waters-god-goD-gOD-GOD...GOD, GOD..(seems safe enough)

And God said, Yea I saith unto thee, waterfront living shall abound! Vantucky shall prosper!

Let there be Light!


Oh it comes!

I didn't mean it....God da....I mean Gawd da...I mean ohhhh

Too late!!!

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

They're doing wonders with digital enhancement of the old movie tapes - I picked up Cool Hand Luke (among others) - it never looked so good on a VCR. (And I found that in the Orchards/Sifton Freddies. I did pay a little tax here today.)

roger — April 6, 2013 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Great choice. Cool Hand Luke one of my all time favorites.

Paul Newman one of the best actors (and reportedly human beings) ever.

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 11:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


thanks for the sleuthing. gonna take a nice stroll through stuff available about your resources

DeeLittle — April 6, 2013 at 11:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - Agreed. They also had The Sting - a good enough movie which I also grabbed a copy of. The poor kid who was the clerk started talking about Redford and how he made such a great movie - I pointed at Newman and said he was the star of that movie - and that he needs to watch Cool Hand Luke if he wants to see a truly great story. I mentioned the intro to the G&R; song Civil War - he thought they made that up. Oh well.

roger — April 6, 2013 at 11:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Speaking of Newman/Redford, Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid right up there as an all time favorite also. Fort Apache the Bronx also a favorite Newman flick, many.

On another note..

*Soil liquification is a real concern - and when the shoreline drops several feet, the river comes rushing in.*

*Or do we only mention earthquakes when talking about the old bridge?*

roger — April 6, 2013 at 11:10 p.m.

roger- I like your angle. We could take it a few steps further and conclude this project may very well open up the gates of Hell.

If that's the case, I suggest we offer up Dave & Tom as a sacrificial offering.

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 11:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***were DO we go from here????***

well, mr. editor, it depends on where you want to wind up.

i, for one, want to build a new bridge either further north (around st. helens, etc) or upstream around camas. route the extra traffic OUT OF THE WAY of the CURRENT bumper to bumper streets. oh, and make MORE through lanes than we currently have. spending billions and years and winding up with the same number of lanes you started with sounds like it could get dangerous around here. especially for um...creative pol's.

for those who throw all KINDS of hissy fits if their money-printing toy, aka light rail, doesnt make it....well....try connecting to your SOUTHERN state. clark county feels those long-standing THRIVING and EMPLOYiNG places were here first, and are actually SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTED by the us coast guard. if the Guard can be bought for something so blatant, i'll lose much of any remaining hope i have our country can be saved.

DeeLittle — April 7, 2013 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I found this link which states who the partners are on the Waterfront Investment:

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding the Waterfront, LLC project...BergerABAM is affiliated with their home office in New Jersey...hardly a local partner. HDJ is local. PWL is British Columbia. Kittleson is Portland.

Why I say's a quote from the link I've provided:

*"""Recognizing the unparalleled potential of the former Boise Cascade site, Gramor has teamed with a group of local investors to form Columbia Waterfront LLC."""*

as well as this one:

*"""Partnership members all have strong roots in the community and are committed to creating a world-class development with sensitivity to the local region and natural environment."""*

Just like the folks who promote the Columbia River Crossing, claiming one thing but the facts speak otherwise...just how local is local investment??? Gramor will bring their workers to Vancouver from Portland...most likely the other companies involved will as well.

Shall we make the local region appear to be back to work with a crossing project as well as a waterfront project, although most workers will be from out of state???

What about the people of Vancouver? Clark County? You know, the highly skilled but unemployed folks of our area??? Oh gotta keep 'em workin' in Portland. The CRC promoters and Oregon and Washington state governments need that toll funding you know!

Is this progress??? Or is this progressive socialism???

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A copy of my letter (in two parts) to be sent to all legislators connected with state transportation needs:

To (insert name here):

According to the 2012 Clark County Census Quickfacts, there are over 32,940 working businesses in Clark County. The backers (businesses...excluding unions) of the Columbia River Crossing listed in the fact book are around 102 with several from organizations across the USA, NOT those directly affected by the economic impact of construction...hardly the majority of business owners. The voters have three times...that's THREE TIMES...indicated they are not and never were in support of light rail by voting down it altogether in 1995 or with the other two ballot measures asking for funding for light rail maintenance and operations. Many of those voters are folks who run OR work in the 32,940 businesses.

It's time for our leadership, in conjunction with the voter approval AND a new crew oversight committee to start producing a better freight mobility asset to our which will reduce down time for the truckers, shipping and railway traffic (gridlock and air pollution) rather than continue to waste time and taxpayer dollars on the current crossing project.

To say the I-5 bridges are a stopping point for international commerce is a farce. In a city such as Portland which heavy population density brought on by light rail and construction surrounding the tracks would result in traffic gridlock anyhow, there is an easily accessible alternative appropriate for semi traffic...namely I-205. By funding for a project to widen I-205 between 134th/I-5 split and Fourth Plain Blvd. to three lanes in each direction, this would reduce further gridlock issues as well. If we're speaking of stopping points for international commerce, then maybe the US Government should take into consideration Freight Mobility on the river as well as on the rails. The railroad bridge is a much higher replacement necessity (built before both I-5 Bridges) in freight mobility for the river and rails than any other local project. The semi trucks must have easy accessibility to the rail yards and the ship yards...hence the necessity for a bypass route for these trucks in order to move their loads to the necessary destination point and avoiding the daily commuter headaches they face regularly.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pt. 2

Forget about replacing the I-5 bridges which are seismically stable (according to a 2009 Seismic Vulnerability Report by Oregon Department of Transportation), considering the fact that an earthquake in the Cascadia Subduction Zone would cause minimal impact to them. Retrofitting the bridges would further prevent a negative outcome from a substantial earthquake. If there were to be an earthquake on the Richter Scale of 8.0 or 9.0, we'd be more worried about the surrounding areas and human life itself.

We need to focus on mobility for the products coming in and going out of Vancouver and Clark County. Replacing he I-5 bridges will do absolutely nothing to improve the continual stopping point which originates in the Terwillegar Curves as well as the stopping point at the Rose Quarter region.

Thank you for your time,

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Bill Maher Slams Paul Ryan, Rand Paul For 'Ruining' Libertarianism: 'I Didn't Go Nuts, This Movement Did' (VIDEO)**;=Politics

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and goldie: From a 2006 Columbian article by Cami Joner and Julia Anderson, the specific main investors of the Waterfront project are named:

Wednesday, August 2, 2006
By CAMI JONER and JULIA ANDERSON, Columbian staff writers Advertisement

A brief press release on Tuesday announced the investors who are buying the 29-acre Boise Cascade waterfront property in Vancouver. Short biographies of the investors accompanied the release. The buyers are:

*Steve and Jan Oliva, Vancouver. The Olivas are owners of Hi-School Pharmacy Inc., Vancouver, that until recently was the dominant pharmacy store chain in the region. The Olivas sold the pharmacy business and the majority of the company's 40 stores to Walgreen Co. in 2003. They continue to have ownership interest in 20 stores and hold real estate assets in Oregon and Washington.

Jan Oliva is co-founder of the Vancouver Women's Foundation. She is president of the Clark College Foundation, co-chairman of the Citizens for Better Libraries and a community arts benefactor.

*Allan and Saundra Kirkwood, Ridgefield. The Kirkwoods are co-owners of Vancouver property development firm, Kirkwood & Kirkwood Inc., which is developing a $30 million east Vancouver mixed-use project called East Side Spectrum. Set to open next month inside the project is Big Al's, a $9 million bowling and family entertainment center. Allan Kirkwood is a retired senior executive and board member of Omaha, Neb.-based Peter Kiewit Sons' Inc., a leading U.S. construction company. The Kirkwoods own and operate a Ridgefield racing-horse stable.

*Steve and Jo Marie Hansen, Vancouver. Steve Hansen is a senior executive with Kiewit Corp. and board member Peter Kiewit Sons' Inc. and of the La Salle Corp.

Jo Marie Hansen is a a member of the board of directors of The Community Foundation and SHARE Inc. in Vancouver.

*George and Paula Diamond, Lake Oswego, Ore. George Diamond is president of Real Estate Investment Group, a Portland firm specializing in land and commercial property sales, leasing and investment. Diamond recently served as the principal broker for the 16-acre South Waterfront high-rise residential development in Portland. The Diamonds have interest in more than 20 commercial properties in the Portland-metro area.

Paula Diamond has worked on behalf of the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Portland and sits on the board of directors of the Hellenic American Cultural Center and is past president of the Lakeridge Pacer Parent Club.

SOURCE: Gramor Development, Tualatin, Ore.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Waterfront investors continued:

I know one of these couples personally as we raised our kids, who are friends, together and worked side-by-side in parent volunteer roles for years. They are good folk and I am thrilled they decided to plop some of their hard-earned cash outside their home community and across the bridge here. I love it that there are hometown investors, as well.

I worry a lot about this inherent "evil" label that gets strapped on the backs of successful businessmen and women over their honestly-earned income and ability to shape progress.

I am not accusing anyone here of doing that, but there is always a face and life behind that name and I hate to see investors demonized just for sport.

When the CRC has crossed its hurdles, will this be the next target-du-jour?

Just wondering.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Good for you for contacting the legislators directly and exercising your first amendment rights (use-em-or-lose-em).

They do like things short and sweet, however, given the amount of stuff that crosses their desks each day. Hit the high points first and always, always thank them for their public service, no matter how much it makes you gag. :)

I did watch the public testimony in the Transportation committee on the 4th. Funny that the cameras were poised on the legislators and not the public testimony. Debbie Peterson started out with a nasty admonition: I imagine all ears were closed after that.

Hint to Debbie: You need to show respect to gain it.

Another thing I read you might like to see, goldie: Crosscut ran a great piece about what is wrong with transportation projects in Washington state:

[link text][1]


manthou — April 7, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When the CRC has crossed its hurdles, will this be the next target-du-jour?

Just wondering.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.

Unfortunately I don't see this brand of anger fading for this large a shining object for a few years. I'm sure every pitfall and problem (as there will be many with a project of this magnitude) will be highlighted by anti CRC folk.

This damn sequester is projected to cost America over 800,000 jobs this year. It'll be a good thing when this project gets off the ground and puts some people to work.

The more I hear about this project the more I'm liking it. Thanks for lending your perspective manthou.

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You will be missed John Laird! You are leaving while at the top of your game!

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sigh. Gloom and doom in basement. Gloom and doom on all the news. Has anybody got something cheerful for thsi dreary Sunday morning? I could use a pick-me-upper. Are there ANY good news?

While I am somewhat set against CRC in its present form (I smell too much corruption), it's time to move something forward. While I absolutely love the open spaces and our nature here, in order to keep our young folks around we really need to change a few things. They will not look to a large property in the burbs, they are no longer tethered to marriage and 2.5 kids, they don't see the 9-5 grind in an office as the ultimate job, they have changed their outlook.

A big part of that is our dismal economy, but they are also quite different than us old(er) folks. I remember the regular phone where you rotated the darn thing by number to dial out. I remember my first exposure to a desk-top computer - yikes! They are mobile, on the go, grew up with technology, expect different things, multi-task much better than this here old lady, they are a different animal. Whatever we do, it would behoove us to keep theses difference in mind. Are we? Do we?

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Someone near and dear to me is involved in Federal Defense for the indigent. You cannot believe the effect the sequestration is having on due process and civil liberties. But who really gives a damn, right? These folks are poor and don't deserve their constitutional protections (sarcasm). I had a good conversation with a Tea Party guy recently who knocks himself out for the Second Amendment, but erroneously thought that the Fourteenth Amendment does not deserve similar advocacy. At least he paused and considered and agreed that everyone deserves those protections. If we preserve them for a privileged class, we are no longer the country we want to be.

So, hell yeah. Sequestration is only starting to do its damage.

I agree that John Laird's opinions are well-presented and humorous. What a gift and what a loss to this community.

Maybe he will start blogging, who knows?

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's a comedy/tragedy thing!

**The Week in Wingnuts: Mandatory Guns and State Religions**

The Daily Beast’s weekly rundown of the wildest ideas being proposed, or passed, by state lawmakers.

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Sorry for focusing on what's broken. :) I will need to do a re-frame and re-boot.

I so agree with you about the youthful residents of this fair city. They live differently than we do. I am intrigued by those "apodments" that are cropping up to fill their unique living needs in bigger cities.

A good city plan accommodates all resident needs. Who am I to prevent life-style diversity just because I don't like it? That is the thinking error that is stopping all this progress and I am not so sure I want to live in a static or regressive community.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- It's too easy for many to forget about those on the fringe. I wish today's church wasn't so wrapped up in politics. If they have faith, it's hard to understand their advocation of this destructive nonsense called sequester.

It would be a great cause for our churches to pick up on this and help. If not for any other reason for positive PR. God knows they could use it.

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Shakepeare produced any number of well remembered quotes. One of the more well known from Hamlet:

> The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

kn_dalai — April 7, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 11:47 p.m. -- "If that's the case, I suggest we offer up Dave & Tom as a sacrificial offering."

We need to add two more to that list - Jimmy and Timmy. These hard core gods that like sacrificial offerings are a pretty conservative bunch who'll probably take special pleasure in tormenting those two. And besides, the more the merrier.

roger — April 7, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nah Manthou, was not singling you out at all. You are a very reasonable person anyway, willing to see both sides. We need that. Was more a general statement. There's just so much wrong for so long....what else can we do but think about the broken?

We are undergoing a tremendous shift in many things. A reboot if you like. Too many uncertainties. We either adjust/adapt or we go under. Period. Evolution at work.

My 19 year old was telling me the other day she is starting to dislike this country. So much wrong. That really made me think.

At the national level, we focus on guns and the bedroom. Bickering to see which side can win more. The regular folks are forgotten. At the local level, hm. How to put this.

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*We need to add two more to that list - Jimmy and Timmy.*

roger — April 7, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

Alright...point taken and accepted.

Now *this* is compromise!

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There are a lot of nice people. I've spoken with Don Benton, and he's a very personable individual - he'd be a blast to have a couple of beers with and just shoot the bull. I spoke at length with Monica Stonier, and found her to be quite pleasant. David Madore wouldn't have such a large group of followers if he wasn't a decent sort of guy.

"My father taught me many things here — he taught me in this room. He taught me — keep your friends close but your enemies closer." -- Michael Corleone

"In a functioning democracy the public must have faith that its representatives owe their positions to the people, not to the corporations with the deepest pockets." -- Justice John Paul Stevens

There are billions to be made from the Waterfront project, if it goes as planned. And it's got to be more than coincidence that we suddenly had to have light rail at the same point in time as this group came into being. I suspect those names you found are just a few of the investors, and that we'd be having serious talks about conflicts of interest if some other names came to light.

roger — April 7, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting article on DC. HolyC, you will appreciate this one.

Thanks for the music. I just love Billy Joel.

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I do love those Godfather quotes as they carry so much life's lessons truth in them. That movie just doesn't age, have you noticed it? :) Another movie full of such truisms: Lonesome Dove.

Questioning authority and demanding transparency and accountability are respected tenets in our country. No matter what side of the argument one finds oneself, it is good to make sure the questions are asked and the probing tenacious. I have a lot of respect for people who actually put their passions to pen, voice, or digital means and make their voices heard. Otherwise it is simply an exercise in unproductive bitching. So have at it with the Waterfront project. I support you and admire your pluck.

Holyc: Some people earn their wealth by having a good idea and providing a service or product that rises to the top. Old fashioned elbow-grease, smarts and maybe a little bit of good luck. Not all wealthy individuals were born into it. I guess providing a unique and valued service is an "invention" of sorts, so I might agree with you there.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: At the risk of over-exposure here today, let me add one other thought that I know many agree with:

If people conduct their life and business in ethical ways, then they will survive any probes or audits or inquiries. They should welcome transparency demands and disclosure requests.

The good thing about this age we live in, the digital era, is that the public can learn a lot more than we ever used to. But we have to conduct ourselves ethically, too, when demanding accountability. Some don't. Some play dirty with innuendo, fear-mongerng and rumor in an attempt to gain advantage.

Copy editors are supposed to use "skeptical or prosecutorial techniques" in probing the truth from their journalists. The public should do the same with our government and legislators.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I like your comments today on wealth acquisition and the “evil” label that is so often unfairly ascribed to some of those folks, by some.

Just a short caveat to your comment at 11:55 a.m. In the 1960’s there was a prominent businessman in Vancouver, who started his own business and became quite successful. The business is still here and is one of the local area’s larger employers.

He was prosecuted by the IRS back then, over tax evasion, and went to prison for a year or so. I was quite young then and don’t know all of the details, but the dispute was over accounting principles. He was very well thought of and had a broad base of supporters. Without knowing the details myself, I tend to think he was railroaded by the IRS. Anyway, I think there are times when someone can get caught up in things beyond their control, no matter how ethical they may be.

kn_dalai — April 7, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: You bring up a good point about good people being harmed by misuse of power in government. I would add the press to that, too, sometimes. When the two join forces together, it is even more devastating.

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.

Hi there.

If you have ever read anything Debbie Peterson has written on the FB side, you will see that she is mostly clueless on whatever subject she is commenting on. I find it hard to believe she's an educator.

I do remember one problem she had during the elections. She was pulled over because she hadn't changed the expired plates on her car. She had the new ones in the car but couldn't figure out how to get the old ones off and put the new ones on. Guess it didn't occur to her to stop at a shop or gas station. She posted it online and several people offered her help.

hawkeye — April 7, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, I agree-LOL. When Debbie posts, I am reminded of the saying "the lights are on but nobody is home." Of course, compared to Josephine Wentzel...

HC, glad you liked the link. A simple, straightforward explanation that speaks the truth. We got the Lesters. But - if we do not vote D or R, who is left? The system is set up to favor those two. Libertarian aka Paul is not really appealing to me. Rest has no chance.

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.

Shouldn't that be youthful citizens of this fine county? Why limit it to just a small segment of Clark County???

And in response to the article you presented about Crosscut...definitely enlightening and worthy of taking the time to read.

An interesting fact I stumbled upon, courtesy of the Bloomberg Businessweek Report (2012)...Greenhouse Gas Emissions have dropped 2.2 billion tons from levels measured in 2007. Seems to me, the numbers continue to drop due to more people taking action with regards to carbon footprint awareness and the push for cleaner energy. President Obama is shooting for another 17.5% below 2005 levels with tighter restrictions including new vehicles manufactured which must meet the 35 mph minimum requirements. Also...there's something else in the works...the EPA wants to reduce sulfur by 2/3rds from gasoline in order for catalytic converters in automobiles to become more efficient. All it takes is locating the polluters and cleaning them, to get the rest of the world (China especially) onboard.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 2:12 p.m.

Regarding your response to holyc...I was wondering the same thing.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just an observation -

*I have noticed something about the CRC conversation in the basement. If one produces a pro opinion on a CRC matter, there is an attempt to frame opinion as "agenda".*

*Let's keep it real folks.*

*nailingit — April 6, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.*

**Now let's compare it to a segment of this comment on the facebook side, shall we:**

*Jim Moeller · Top Commenter
As usual Lew, you try and change my words to fit your agenda. Here are the words from the article:*

Oh...if our elected individuals would only keep it real!!!

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

btw, the discussion between Representative Moeller and Mister Lew Waters was regarding an article in which our elected one was quoted as saying the following:

*But Moeller, who sits on the House Transportation Committee and was present during the hearing, said he’s heard it all before, and so have his fellow legislators. Moeller said his colleagues weren’t exactly thrilled to listen to the project’s opponents say their pieces.*

*“They were bored to tears,” he said. “They were quite honestly disgusted with the testimony.”*

His response??? On the Oregonlive response was given but in his response to Lew was the following:

*"So, we've heard it all before and the majority of committee members were "preoccupied" with their laptops."*

Yeah...let's keep it real alright.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal's the article in reference to my comments @ 3:53 pm and 3:59 pm:

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“The genius of our ruling class is that it has kept a majority of the people from ever questioning the inequity of a system where most people drudge along paying heavy taxes for which they get nothing in return.” -- Gore Vidal

"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing." -- Mark Twain

“There's a sucker born every minute.” ― P.T. Barnum

"But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success." -- Adolph Hitler

roger — April 7, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good stuff being shared on here today, from my perspective, anyway.

goldie: glad you thought that Crosscut article had some interesting ideas. We are not the only area that is having frustrations with the state's transportation plan. I really like this online news source. It mostly focuses on Seattle, but there is a great Olympia section for all the legislative stuff.

Jim Moeller's comment in Oregonlive was not his best moment. Or maybe the quote was partial and out of context? It happens.

When Debbie Peterson chided him directly to shut his laptop and keep his eyes on her during her testimony (yeah, she really did, as if scolding one of her students), he never took them off her.

I just wish she would get it that she does not have to keep repeating herself over and over and over ad nauseam because her target audience tunes her out. Say it once. Say it succinctly. Say it with respect and you just might get some results. Hammer people like a broken record harpy, and their eyes glaze over the minute they see you take that mic. Ya gotta admire her tenacity: kinda like a terrier on a mail carrier's ankle.

Something I noticed about David Madore that I actually like (yeah, I try to find that): He always finds a way to give the Clark County staff members a public pat on the back in commission meetings. I think he probably means it, too. Politicians and public servants do not get a lot of thank yous. :)

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 7, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.

In this case, Representative Moeller didn't deny the accusations. He actually added to it with his own rhetoric to Lew. I believe it wasn't taken out of context.

I agree with you about Debbie Peterson. Even if you dislike what the politician stands for, disrespect is uncalled for. Nobody has to be rude but I will say this...from my personal is also disrespectful for a politician to be at a public hearing, working on their laptop when the people have a chance to speak. In Representative Moeller's case, I will stand up for the guy in stating that he was pleasant and was diligent with pen and paper at the town hall and listened to each and every person who spoke - answering carefully, his repetitive statements we've all heard over and over many times (like a broken record). I would have to watch the hearing to see for myself rather than jumping all over Ms. Peterson for her reaction to the officials at the hearing. Surely, there must've been some of our elected officials busy on their laptops as she wanted to speak and felt her rights to be heard were violated even before she began. Even Rep. Moeller made a remark regarding that fact.

I guess it's all in the execution of public speaking. Obviously, experience in public speaking by our elected officials outweighs the voice of the common folk who are quite passionate about their feelings regarding the crossing project, so yes...emotions are raised but it's only because we're tired of talking to those who have tuned us out long time ago...and we haven't had a chance to vote on this project since 1995, excluding sales tax initiatives.

Manthou...there's far too many "issues" in this project...some mentioned by Rep. Herrera-Beutler including funding for channel restoration at Hood River and Lewis River restoration as well as height issues still under careful consideration by the USCG and last but not least....David Evans & Associates working way over budget and now a new environmental impact statement might be in the works due to the height what cost??? Traffic improvement with the current LPA is estimated to be a decrease in commute times by one minute. The ridership of the rails will be that of people who already catch the bus or catch their ride in Delta Park. Cyclists want the crossing so they don't have to fuss with one extra transit transfer and want a safe bike ride across the bridge, yet they won't be paying for tolls when crossing the bridge on their where's the incentive to pay hundreds of millions of dollars per mile for this project? Over budget??? Misappropriated funding??? Outrageous costs which will impact our children, our grandchildren and great grandchildren for many years to come??? Where's the incentive to encourage businesses to relocate here? The bridge will be favorable for Oregon, not Washington. Please tell me what's right with this project...I haven't heard or seen anything yet.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal more comment to you...

First of all, I wanted to apologize for that rather wordy comment I just shared with you and secondly, I wanted to thank you for your word of encouragement for me exercising my first amendment rights....something everyone should be doing in my opinion. I see you've been doing the same lately...for which you should pat yourself on the back as I know how mentally draining it can be, lol. I know we don't always agree but that's what makes life interesting...and I'm always willing to listen to the other side but not afraid to point out discrepancies as I expect others to do so when what I have to say has discrepancies as well...which I realize sometimes they do. I only wish some could express their message with tact rather than with another motive in mind. Sometimes though, internet discussions are interpreted one way when they are meant to be interpreted differently.

Regarding Commissioner Madore, I believe he is genuine in his manners. I've seen him in public before he was a politician and have heard from people who work for him who said he's genuinely respectful. I'm sure if someone pushes his button...he won't be afraid to react but I think the reaction will be one with tact.

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 7, 2013 at 6:06 p.m.

Just from observations while walking around in the grocery stores the past few days affirms your statement that you are "convinced that the average American is completely doped up, on booze or in pharmaceuticals or plain brain washed." I've never seen so many people with blank stares on their faces...literally walking into pillars...crossing the driveway without checking if a car is coming...forgetting they had their kids in tow. It's almost as if they're in a trance, Holyc. I'm beginning to wonder if it's something in the food.

And the issue of our society dumbing down??? Oh good Lord! Yesterday I heard a couple tell their children to sit down in the shopping cart or they'd have to get out and walk. These kids were around 6 or 7. Come on now...punish a child with exercise??? They shouldn't have been in the cart in the first place!!! What in the world has happened to society???

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 2, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.

Here's a big **THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU** for bringing up in your discussion the latest book "Salt Sugar Fat" by Michael Moss. Even though it's a bit on the wordy side, the message is clear. We NEED to RETRAIN our BRAINS!!!

Have you discovered your bliss point, yet??? Now every time I hear some restaurant advertising "salted caramel bliss ice cream sundae..." I cringe. You know there's a company that specializes in Chocolate Bliss??? Even Hershey's has a candy bar named that. Talk about a trigger point to get us back on the right track!!!

Yeah...definitely a book I recommend for everybody to read!!!

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Soo Holy C, what are YOU personally doing about it? I am actually really curious. And I am not talking about any efforts to take care of yourself. I mean what are you doing about politics?

luvithere — April 7, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc,do you think it would make a difference who we elected,by looking at the choices we have on both sides of fence?I don't see to much from either side that is going to work for the middle class.And Nail I really don't think you think all conservatives as evil.There are good things that can come from all sides.To bad we don't see to much of it.I sometimes think that my generation was looking the other way to much of time and not paying attention to the government around us.I guess we got what we deserve.I would hope our children do a better job.I am glad to see people like you,Roger,Holyc,Goldie and others bring some of these things up for all to see and make a judgment on.I may not agree with everything that you all say but at least I can see what others think.And that is a good thing for all of us.

timerick — April 7, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 7, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. "Can we retrain our workers instead of importing people that hate us or are not programmed like we are?"

Here's a 2008 article, when this was last a big issue. Gates claimed we didn't have enough highly skilled people here, and that the alternative to the visas is outsourcing.

However, as the article notes -- "Although Gates spoke of highly skilled specialists, the average H-1B worker has a bachelor's degree, was born in India and makes about $55,000 a year, says the most recent data from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. (The average U.S. tech worker's salary is more than $74,500, says career site"

Does that answer your question? This is no different than the prevailing wage fight going on over state contracts - and also why much of the labor to build the CRC will come from the dayworker crowd down on MLK. (Jimmy Moeller's "thousands of jobs" will also be wiring money elsewhere and not reinvesting it in the local economy.)

roger — April 7, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've thought about voicing this weeks ago, but chose not too at the time. Now I will since the chat is about the work force here in Clark County.

When I spent a week in the hospital earlier this year I was shocked at the number of non-American born staff the hospital has.
From Drs to nurses to whatever techs I had exactly 3 American born nurses (in ICU and in the area where I moved too after ICU) I had a total of 2 American born drs (mine and the heart dr) The rest I saw from pulmonology to hematology were all foreign born. Some could hardly speak english which made it very hard to understand what they wanted from me and me to do.
I told one nurse that if they keep hiring those that can not speak English soon the hospital will need interpreters for us Americans. The same nurse told me many drs, techs and nurses have retired or moved elsewhere. Even my own dr asked me how I liked the "third world", I just glared at him, he got what I was thinking but didn't say. Next time I just may head across the river for hospital care.

ELISI — April 7, 2013 at 9:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am glad to see people like you,Roger,Holyc,Goldie and others bring some of these things up for all to see and make a judgment on.I may not agree with everything that you all say but at least I can see what others think.And that is a good thing for all of us.

timerick — April 7, 2013 at 6:47 p.m.

Nicely stated timerick. Well rounded opinion can only be a good thing.

Here's a summation of a thoughtful write paying homage to Roger Ebert. Kinda fits.

*By writing and speaking clearly, compassionately, and striving for connection, he expressed the simple faith that I increasingly suspect a great many of us share. That the real struggles are not found in the conjured scuffles between theists vs. atheists, but about how to survive and love: a meal, another person, a movie.*

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 7, 2013 at 6:37 p.m

So many books, so little time. Also reading 'At Home' by Bill Bryson. You know those questions that go something like, 'if you could have dinner with anyone...'? Bryson would be it for me... or in the top five for sure. He's always fun to read.

So, not moving through 'Salt, Sugar, Fat' very rapidly. Hardly eat sugars except for red wine, and get grossed reading phrases like 'mouthfeels' and fat, so taking the book in gulps and fits, like I usually do with this sort of read. Although food as 'bliss' is understandable, for me it's not sweets, or maybe mine could be hot/sour/sweet (think Thai, Asian). After reading so much Joseph Campbell, it's easy to take exception to the word 'bliss' just to schlock inferior and trashy calories in order to hoodwink consumers. The word deserves better than that.

jacjak — April 7, 2013 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I disagree with most all of you here about people in politics.

Put any two people in a room, and they’ll disagree on all sorts of things. Three is worse. Then four. This little forum is a testament to that.

It’s the people in politics that put their necks on the line, that have to deal with all of this, as a go between. No matter what they do, there will be a faction that doesn’t like it, and that faction is going to be vocal about it. It’s no wonder that the people in politics, often times say little. Say something and you’ll be shouted down. Say nothing, and you’ll be criticized for not saying anything.

Corruption? You bet. Sometimes. Always has been. No use in going there ‘cause that much is obvious.

I believe that most go into politics because they think they can do good. Just how is it that you can complain about others in politics, as if they are supposed to have the answers, when you can’t even come to agreement, on much of anything in the basement , with just a handful of others?

I don’t mind complaining. Per se. For me it’s Nancy Pelosi for one. I think I posted a video from a Sixty Minutes segment a while back, where Steve Croft, asked her about the money she and her husband made, with insider information she would have been privy to over proposed stock market legislation in congress. She acted like she knew nothing about it. Want to complain. You bet. As far as I’m concerned that woman is just nuts and in this case, unethical even though not illegal at the time. Interestingly, it was our very own Brian Baird, who was featured as one of the critics of those who gain from congressional insider information in the stock market.

Just the same, the makeup of people in politics, are just a reflection of the larger body politic. Corruption, such as using government for personal gain, is always a legitimate target of scorn, and legal action. Other than that, it generally comes down to the ideas of political ideology, and I think most, are way off base to blame those stuck in the middle for all of the ills.

I think most of you are looking for something that isn’t there.

kn_dalai — April 7, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think a few of you have found something that doesn't exist.

just sayin'

nailingit — April 7, 2013 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

MTP a great show.

I miss Tim Russert. Gregory is a flop and should move over for Chuck Todd.

This interviewed is called...

Cornering A Rat.

nailingit — April 8, 2013 at 12:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**KN_DALAI** : *I think most of you are looking for something that isn’t there.*

I'm afraid you may be right.

I'm looking for a politician who runs because he wants to serve his country. Who feels an obligation to help her, protect her and keep her free.

Someone who wants to make the people around him (*the voters*, not the machine pol's) better off. Who wants to give all the children, not just **his**, a better future.

And after he's done as much as he can, who wants to go back to his real life. His PRIVATE life.

I'm also looking for a journalist who actually remembers they're the guardians of our freedom. Who remember that Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein brought down a President. And who realizes that Nixon's crime, wiretapping an opponent's offices, wouldn't even be considered newsworthy today. And intends to bring back some old-fashioned honesty to the game.

Yeah, I know; i'm a hopelessly out of date, old 60s genner who'll die soon so who really cares anyway.

DeeLittle — April 8, 2013 at 12:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee - I suspect his views are a bit too far to the left for you, but Bernie Sanders fits the requirements you've laid out.

roger — April 8, 2013 at 5:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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