Open forum, April 22-28

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310 comments

Comments

Hawk - Sorry, I addressed the answer to your question to Nails. There's a link to Duin's Sunday Oregonian column in my final comment last night. Seems Kotek is going to be getting after DEQ to do something about the "odor pollution" coming from Daimler's paint shop.

roger — April 22, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Help me understand why residents who live downwind of Daimler should not be able to advocate for healthy air?

Will moving to Vancouver mean our residents are more tolerant of paint fume smells and won't be similarly concerned for the health of their families?

I sometimes think that some businesses DO take advantage of Vancouver's historic laxity in terms of environmental pollution. That is changing, especially with the CRC EIS controversy over air quality.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

Holyc...let me ask you a question here. Do you or do you not believe in a community that can sustain itself with jobs, homes and food in a quality of lifestyle for everyone which prides itself on controlled growth and little to no debt?

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But Madore also concedes that he’s scarcely read the 133-page growth plan the Columbia River Economic Development Council is heading up and that Wolfe finds so vital to the county’s future.*

Stunning.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A quote from today's "The big divide" article:

*Wolfe and other leaders, while acknowledging the messiness of Columbia River Crossing decision-making, see a new Interstate 5 bridge as a main ingredient of Clark County’s future prosperity. ***The project, aimed at speeding freight and commuter**s, and producing a safer link between Portland and Vancouver,* is expected to generate 1,900 jobs per year during construction.*

A quote from Columbiarivercrossing.org (see actual link below), exhibit 3.4-7 which states the following:

**Does the project substantially improve highway travel times?
**Yes and No**.*

*With CRC, I-5 travel times would be shorter than No-Build and would be longer than existing conditions.** (???)

http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org/FileLibrary/FINAL_EIS_PDFs/CRC_FEIS_Chapter3_S4_Land_Use_and_Economic_Activity.pdf

Willamette week article quote, stating a discussion between Rep. Herrera-Beutler and Transportation Sec'y Ray Lahood:

*D.C. Streets Blog, a transportation site, says that during a meeting today with the House Appropriations Committee, LaHood clashed with Herrera Beutler, who opposes an extension of TriMet's MAX line into downtown Vancouver. When she asked him why build an expensive light rail line to save one minute in travel times, LaHood replied **"we don’t promote building roads or bridges to get places faster."***

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30042-transportation_secretary_columbia_river_crossing_not_designed_for_speed.html

One minute:

**Benton said he and other coalition members let LaHood have it on the whole range of CRC concerns: how the bridge height would cost Clark County thousands of permanent jobs, how replacing the Interstate 5 bridge without addressing the corridor as a whole would fail to reduce commute times from Clark County to Portland by more than one minute, the financial liability that would go with including an extension of light rail from Portland, and more.**

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 7:18 a.m.

There may be circumstances that stripping the suspect could be warranted. I they had good reason to believe he was associated with the bombing then this could be one of those circumstances. Clothing is not one of the rights outlined in the Bill of Rights, but some may argue that it falls under the penumbra of privacy. At least if he is naked no officer can shoot him and claim he was reaching for a weapon.

Disclosure: The preceding is just my opinion, I have no legal training.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 8:02 a.m.

There's no question. We need to eventually replace the crossing. The CREDC has no comment regarding light rail in the project...they just want an improved crossing as do most of us fighting the LRT segment of the project.

http://www.vbjusa.com/news/top-stories/8838-credc-responds-to-county-funding-issue

I'm curious about one thing...nailingit, do you know if the other commissioners have read the document in its entirety?

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert and holyc: It is well-known that the FBI has set up about 17 "provacateur" terrorist events (the Christmas tree lighting bomb incident was one). They find gullible youth, pretend to be terrorists themselves, and set them up with fake bomb material and arrest them when they try to detonate the stuff. Then they tell the media: Looky here! We just foiled another terrorist plot!

You can better control the people you govern if you keep them in a state of fright.

It is worth doing a little digging into the inconsistencies being reported (and what might NOT be reported yet) about the Boston bombings. Some eye witnesses say that it was the cops who ran over the older brother. Some are swearing that the man forced to strip and taken into custody in the back of the cop car was the older suspect. Some say that the Saudi Arabian student hospitalized and questioned has terrorist ties and is being deported.

I am finding that I am concerned about the erosion of the Bill of Rights in the interest of public safety. I am not so quick to give them up, no matter what.

An unquestioning public is a public that can be better manipulated.

All this coming from a lifelong liberal Democrat.

I do know that police often lie, as do prosecutors. If you believe otherwise, I have a CRC new bridge to sell you. :)

Read. Ask questions. Be skeptical. This story may not be just another conspiracy theory.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

The complainant Duin interviewed is from the University Park neighborhood association. Also mentioned was about 100 protesters. Want to bet how many were from UP, as opposed to actual residents? I travel Lombard to St Johns bridge several times per year and have never noticed anything. The one person I know who lives nearby has no complaints - He's happy the Port is nearby and employs people who live in the general area.

I went digging and found this DEQ report. Daimler (Freightliner) was in compliance in 2003 and 2005, and no one from the neighborhood showed up at the 2007 hearings. Now, I can't be positive, but this sort of leads me toward thinking the problem is a manufactured one - perhaps the college kids with their campus on the river don't like the smell?
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/permit/tv/nwr/262197freightliner_rr.pdf

This reminds me of the little town in PA (Milton) I used to live in. The three largest employers were the steel mill, ACF (railroad car manufacturer), and American Home Foods (Chef Boiardi). All three created odors - the tomato docks at Boiardi's stunk to high heavens when in that late summer full operation. Back in the early 70s the gentrified types started complaining - their friends in Lewisburg (home of Bucknell) looked down on our nasty dirty little working class town. They got on city council, and started passing ordnances to restrict these companies. End result is that the steel mill shut down, Boiardi's moved to Ohio, and ACF cut back and moved most of its manufacturing elsewhere. My friends back there say they'd love to have our unemployment figures that we complain about here.

You'll have to ask Hawkeye about working conditions there. They must not be too bad, or he wouldn't have told us they were hiring a couple of years back.

roger — April 22, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc @ 8:20 am: I think there is a massive culture clash going on in Clark County between the old time residents and the youthful infusion downtown. I think these new residents are changing the face of the city and I agree that Vancouver is looking more like Portland as the years progress.

A big part of me likes this. The other part does not want to live with 10 years of construction and chaos during the last third of my precious life.

We have a place on the Northern Oregon coast for refuge, but where to relocate for daily living, close to good services and entertainment, is a question I am posing to my spouse daily.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I appreciate reading your added information and suspicions about the Daimler issue. There is usually something more to every story and skepticism and deep research is valuable for making informed decisions.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 22, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.

The FBI is great at foiling their own plots, but they don't do much good on other peoples. It is only a matter of time before one of their "sting operations" go bad and a real device is detonated, or maybe it has already happened, they are not known for coming clean on their own mistakes. Now I'm sounding like infowars and I am all out of tinfoil hats.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Let’s Rename Earth Day**
By Joe Romm

".... Technically, we are the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens. Isn’t it great being the only species that gets to name all the species, so we can call ourselves “wise” twice! But given how we have been destroying the planet’s livability, I think at the very least we should drop one of the sapiens. And, perhaps provisionally, we should put the other one in quotes, so we are Homo “sapiens,” at least until we see whether we are smart enough to save ourselves from self-destruction."

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/04/21/1899781/rename-earth-day

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Since I am on the subject of conspiracy theories, how does this sound.

By refusing to Mirandize the suspect in this case, the Justice department has created a test case that involves a suspect so heinous that they believe public opinion will demand elimination of our Fifth amendment rights and the Supreme Court will be reluctant to free him. If this situation comes to pass none of us will have those rights. We have already seen people cheering the trampling of our Fourth amendment rights in this case

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Resource Shock: How Resource Scarcity and Climate Change Could Produce a Global Explosion**
*Whether you know it or not, you’re on a new planet, a resource-shock world of a sort humanity has never before experienced.* Michael T. Klare

"Brace yourself. You may not be able to tell yet, but according to global experts and the U.S. intelligence community, the earth is already shifting under you. Whether you know it or not, you’re on a new planet, a resource-shock world of a sort humanity has never before experienced.

Two nightmare scenarios -- a global scarcity of vital resources and the onset of extreme climate change -- are already beginning to converge and in the coming decades are likely to produce a tidal wave of unrest, rebellion, competition, and conflict. Just what this tsunami of disaster will look like may, as yet, be hard to discern, but experts warn of “water wars” over contested river systems, global food riots sparked by soaring prices for life’s basics, mass migrations of climate refugees (with resulting anti-migrant violence), and the breakdown of social order or the collapse of states. At first, such mayhem is likely to arise largely in Africa, Central Asia, and other areas of the underdeveloped South, but in time all regions of the planet will be affected.

To appreciate the power of this encroaching catastrophe, it’s necessary to examine each of the forces that are combining to produce this future cataclysm.

Resource Shortages and Resource Wars

Start with one simple given: the prospect of future scarcities of vital natural resources, including energy, water, land, food, and critical minerals. This in itself would guarantee social unrest, geopolitical friction, and war."

http://www.alternet.org/environment/resource-shock-how-resource-scarcity-and-climate-change-could-produce-global-explosion

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.

I may not agree with you on Global Warming and the ban of CFC's but I do agree that man has done a poor job of stewardship of our planet. I feel that deforestation is the greatest danger.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I'm curious about one thing...nailingit, do you know if the other commissioners have read the document in its entirety?*

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 8:10 a.m.

Good morning! It looks like we might get a few days of sun!

No. I haven't spoken with Tom or Steve concerning this.

There's a notable difference between reading it in it's entirety & scarcely reading it. Let's hope all of our duly elected officials have their head in the game enough to understand what they are advocating for or against, and scrutinize any pertinent documentation. And no, I haven't read it in it's entirety either. Let's at least hold accountable those collecting a taxpayer funded check every month and ensure they work..at least a little bit on our dime. (even if it's only reading)

My best guess is Dave has the hired help give him the skinny regarding this and much more, completely unfiltered and without bias I'm sure.

Dave rode into office on a one issue platform and 300 Grand in his saddlebags, but doesn't bother to read what he's up against? He should read it, if not for any other reason, to understand why many Clark County residents are supportive of the CRC.

From a political perspective, the CRC growth plan would provide fodder as well as a window look at the other guy's playbook.

It might speak to what I've said before. He possibly has no passion for or against this project. I've felt all along this Commission seat is nothing more than a stepping stone for him to expand his role in government, one that affords him increased opportunity to enact a religious conservative agenda.

Whatever his future taxpayer/government paid aspirations might be, one thing is for sure. If elected he'll lobby for political ceremonial Christian prayer time. If not for any other reason, to perpetuate the mythical victimization of his faith knowing it will cause public outrage, and at the same time paint himself as moral.

A win win I suppose.

But hey, that's my opinion.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome back M_B_S! I was calling out for you just last week, and frobert has been reminiscing about your acts of literary courage. Welcome back!

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 9:07 am: I hear ya. I think we all should be vigilant about protecting our rights in all situations.

There will always be someone who argues for an exception to the rule. Just this once. Just because the crime was so heinous. Just because the accused is part of a marginalized class of citizen. Just because.......Just for now. Trust us. We'll give them back to you when this is all done.

Not buying it.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"..increased opportunity to enact a religious conservative agenda."

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.

I'd posit that 'attempt to' should be added before "enact"...

I don't see how the conservative xian voting bloc could hold sway over the much larger - and rational - bloc of voters looking at his stance on light rail, et al. Especially as his 'I don't bother to read reports, I'm sticking to my unsupported opinion' gets airplay during the next election.

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 22, 2013 at 6:08 a.m.

I believe the new paints they use are more water based than anything. They have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars to clean the air coming from the paint booths. I can tell you that I have been INSIDE the drying booth on the line and it never smelled of paint. Even the chassis coming from the drying booth, still hot, didn't smell. The complaint coming from the bluff has always been noise from the plant at night. Of course it's hard to tell sometimes where the noise is coming from in that area since it is a huge echo chamber from the bluff. Also the railroad switching yard is there as well and they are a bit noisy as well. Can you imagine what the complaints would be if it were still an airport? Most of those people that live up there moved there after the plant was built.

hawkeye — April 22, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert at 9:10 a.m.

It would be interesting to see the science you care to bring forward to support that trio of unsupported claims.

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

from HC's videos, we can kiss these rights bye bye.

mrd — April 22, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On the many conspiracy theories about Boston..

One of the benefits of a trial is that most everything should come out. Meanwhile, the conspiracy profiteers are having a field day.

Take a step back and know our judicial process will be will take place on an international stage. Prosecution and defense will be scrutinized like no other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_apIb...

Courtroom live feed would be nice.

But in the end as everyone knows...

If the glove don't fit, ya must acquit! :)

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

No support is necessary or implied, if you reread my post, I put forth everything I said as opinion. I don't have the time or inclination to post conflicting sources all day.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Erika Eichelberger, **Your Home Is Your Abattoir**
Rebecca Solnit

"....
Americans die of lousy health and our lousy healthcare system, of natural disaster, and -- at levels unequaled throughout the affluent world -- of each other. Gun deaths in the U.S. in 2011: more than 11,000; in Japan that year, seven. From foreign terrorism in the U.S. that year: 0.

Some fears are convenient: terrorism has devoured money and civil rights and government surveillance at a rate that is itself terrifying. And it’s made “security” into doublespeak. In terms of actual American deaths, terrorists are right down there with sharks. (Zero domestic shark deaths in 2011, 12 worldwide.) Some fears are inconvenient: if you look at leading causes of death and injury for women, the terms “terrorist” and “husband” should perhaps be interchangeable. Male violence, much of it by partners and former partners, is the second highest cause of death for women between 15 and 44, worldwide. And in the U.S., suicide kills more of us than homicide, as Erika Eichelberger points out in her timely piece today.

To acknowledge what really threatens us is to upset two of the most guarded citadels in this country: the military and masculinity. They are perhaps the same force on different scales. Armed intervention is imperial machismo in the same way a raging husband or father is the military dictator of a household. Maybe “domestic terrorist” should be twinned with “domestic violence.” After all, the seldom acknowledged main form of such terrorism in this country in recent decades, anti-abortion violence, fits in comfortably, being an assault on women’s rights to bodily autonomy and self-determination."

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175689/tomgram%3A_erika_eichelberger%2C_your_home_is_your_abattoir/

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No support is necessary or implied, if you reread my post, I put forth everything I said as opinion. I don't have the time or inclination to post conflicting sources all day.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9:53 a.m

I guess I should have said that ALL DAY yesterday.

We'll just call that "Frobert's rule #1"

hawkeye — April 22, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I'd posit that 'attempt to' should be added before "enact"...*

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.

A- ? :)

one that affords him

or perhaps one that might (or could) afford him..? Anywho..

I don't see how the conservative xian voting bloc could hold sway over the much larger - and rational - bloc of voters looking at his stance on light rail, et al.

Yet he got elected. Passion and people showing up at the polls are everything. (not to mention $$$)

Fascinating he hasn't taken the time to read this report.

goldenoldie's point is well taken. I hope his compadre's are more attentive to this than he is.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 22, 2013 at 9:53 a.m

Got it, you have opinions that you can't /won't support.

IF there were any valid sources for your claims, THEN there could be "conflicting sources..". The science says differently.

Your claims are part of that 'skeptic' subset attempting to move the debate away from the major root cause by affecting a NIMBY attitude.

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.

I think Madore's bridge and the 'let's keep the Couv the way it was when I moved here' positions resonated with a bloc of voters who were energized on those points.

Now that it is more obvious that both positions are more vocal conservative yammering than actually able to sway the general public - and with his bringing xian memes forward - I think his base will not increase enough to support his re-election.

Look at the dialog happening locally as well as Portland, Salem, Olympia, D.C. It is getting pretty obvious that, to misuse Shakespeare, he is "...a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

mr_basil_seal — April 22, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


M_B_S- The RW emotional rhetoric is clearly over the top with this project. I truly hope sound and reasonable voices will prevail. Your "misuse" of Shakespeare was appreciated!

---

On another note. Not to pile on but...

*We'll just call that "Frobert's rule #1"*

hawkeye — April 22, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.

Not to mention *frobert's doctrine of relevancy.*

Within frobert's framework of thinking, if he doesn't deem a question relevant he won't address it. In doing so he refuses to entertain Q & A which run counter to his extremist right wing ideology. Or more aptly stated, he's unable to support his argument.

In doing so, it reduces honest debate to nothing more than an exercise in futility.

In my opinion.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A caped k_nd should be flying in any moment crusading for social justice to those who share a similar mindset.

Time to get some yard work done.

Beautiful day!

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd and frobert: What do you make of the Craft International employees caught on film at the marathon a week ago? Did the city hire them for added security?

This security company was founded by Chris Kyle, the sniper (best ever in the US)who was killed last February.

Snopes has published a lot of the facts to debunk the Boston Marathon rumors, but nothing so far on the Craft International presence that day.

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*this man hit it in the nail's head.*

holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.

He sure does. This austerity focus has been all wrong, as I and others have been stating for some time. Investment should take a front seat with our economy. $$$ much too super cheap!

Krugman is right on most of the time. I wish his voice was part of our President's inner circle.

He has a lot of worthy writes on the subject. If you're not familiar with him, read some past op-eds. Usually spot on.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is really behind the resistance to gun control legislation (and why we cannot trace gun powder sales):

Some gun owners (and gun powder hoarders) expect to need these tools to resist an oppressive government takeover.

It's their way of keeping the government "honest" and in line.

Any thoughts on that theory?

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 22, 2013 at 1:47 p.m.

Honestly, I don't see the reason for resistance on a background check for buying a gun. You need a background check to work in a daycare. Seems fair.

As for the gunpowder hoarders, I'd be more concerned if people were hoarding C-4.

No matter what you do, no matter what you hoard, it's not going to have any effect on the honesty of the government. They have the military on their side and the military has all the BIG guns.

I just have to trust that they will do the right thing. Anyway, if the government was going to block some kind of uprising, they would be stopping all the gun, powder and bullet sales.

I am invoking "Frobert's rule #1"

hawkeye — April 22, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.

Well if you believe in a self-sustaining community, then why do you promote high-density development? The more high density developments, the less farmland available. The more people who move to our community, the more mouths to feed. With less farmland and more people...that's far from self sustaining.

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holy- *So, do you still insist on gun control*

Don't know if you're addressing me holy, as I've never advocated gun control per se.

I do have a little trouble controlling my 12 gauge/w 18'' barrel with pistol grip when firing magnum loads.

And I've never heard anyone here endorse surrendering our right to defend ourselves. As a matter of fact I don't know anyone personally advocating such. I have to believe very few Americans, or anyone for that matter, would want this.

---

Some gun owners (and gun powder hoarders) expect to need these tools to resist an oppressive government takeover.

It's their way of keeping the government "honest" and in line.

Any thoughts on that theory?

manthou — April 22, 2013 at 1:47 p.m

manthou- If they think anything they buy will protect them from the full power of our military/other forces, let alone keep them honest, they are lacking a bit in the common sense department.

A balanced conversation about reasonable firearm usage and possession is a great conversation to have.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you've got any interest in the CRC, check the facebook side. David Madore posted early today that Tiffany Couch had turned up that the CRC had cut the project into phases - without getting approval from the two states. The Columbian finally caught up. My own short version is that both states have capped the cost of the project at slightly under $3.5 billion. This new "Phase 1" drops the interchanges and is just the bridge and light rail - for an estimated $2.8 billion. Those interchanges were previously estimated at about $1 billion (about $4.5 mil for WA and $5.5 mil for OR). That kicks the cost up to AT LEAST $4.8 billion - and that's without the overruns that you can bank on. So now we need to hear whether either state is going to shoot this down - or were those limits just imposed to get legislation passed to support the project?

roger — April 22, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 22, 2013 at 1:47 p.m.

I don't think the average gun owner believes that the Government is going to try and forcibly oppress the people on a large scale. Tracking black powder sales would be a waste of time, the average person can make much better products using commonly available ingredients, just watch Mythbusters.

I suggest everybody read the law that failed the Senate, it was about ending private sales, not doing background checks. Ending private sales would keep legal firearms out of the hands of the poor, not criminals. The misinformation that they released was startling. Internet sales under current law must be shipped to a licensed dealer, so they do require a background check. The gun show "exemption" is smoke and mirrors, the only sales not requiring a background check at gun shows is private sales eg someone brings a firearm and sells it to another private party.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s374/text

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.

You make some valid talking points, nails. I appreciate that you took the time and shared your perspective and have given me some food for thought.

I guess if every politician took the time to read each and every document such as the Growth Plan put in front of them, they'd have no time to take action and make some much-needed changes...wouldn't you think?

Regarding his ulterior motives...it's been on my mind since day one. I just didn't come out and say it. I find it kind of curious that Commissioner Madore would rather push for a third bridge on the east side rather than replacement of the railroad bridge or even a bypass route from Vancouver's port to the Port of Portland. That was my little red flag telling me something was cookin' in his mind...something he wasn't telling the people.

At least he's taken the initiative to do what most people couldn't afford and that was to open Pandora's Box...aka...paying for someone to audit the CRC (don't know why he didn't ask holycrapola...maybe because holyc was too pro light rail for him...8)). That can of worms is now open and people are noticing.

And your comment about his "lobby for political ceremonial Christian prayer..."

I wouldn't be surprised. I think it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars on such an endeavor, to be honest.

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 22, 2013 at 2:38 p.m.

So now we're looking at a half-arsed bridge project to fulfill the whimsy of some half-arsed promoters and politicians, eh??? IMO, it was half arsed ever since the LPA was decided *without* voter approval. Now...it's just a ridiculous money vacuum with no vision other than to get MAX here in our county. Ah yes...the Loo Rail Crossing... Jimbo's pet project!!!

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmm...port expansion and it doesn't involve loo rail. Instead...heavy rail and crude oil transport to a storage facility in the Port of Vancouver!!! All the more reason to invest in bridge infrastructure for heavy rail!!!

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why do people keep saying that Tsarnaev should be treated as an "enemy combatant"? As such he must be treated as a prisoner of war under the third Geneva convention, he could not be tried or executed, and he would have to be released, when hostilities cease with whatever group they claim he represents. He is a criminal and needs to be treated as such, with full rights guaranteed under our Constitution.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyc...I take it you have no response to my post @2:47 p.m.???

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 4:16 p.m.

" I want my money back and the lives of the thousands of America's sons, daughters, fathers and mothers he got killed in his adventurism..."

...But you are okay with the casualties, and drone strikes under Obama?

I am no fan of Bush but Obama has proven to be more of the same.

frobert — April 22, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HolyC - Building those LRT lines instead of roads would be flushing that money away. Southwest WA RTC already studied our HCT options in depth, and decided LRT was too expensive and too inflexible in that it can't move with the population. They've proposed a system with BRT out Mill Plain, Fourth Plain, and up Hwy 99 to Salmon Creek. This system will be augmented by buses. There's also a plan to build an expressway down from Battle Ground through the Hockinson area to east Vancouver.

And seeing as how it appears the Glenn Jackson can't handle LRT after all, and even if it could it would mean rerouting the Red line away from the airport (no one rides the thing after the Cascade Station shopping center anyhow), we shouldn't plan on using that route. And having people travel on LRT from the far reaches of the County to converge on the southwestern most part of it makes no sense - not to take the crappy old Yellow line.

roger — April 22, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: That afternoon conversation on hoarding weapons and who has the big guns. In a direct confrontation the military wins. But we've had a few conflicts in our lifetime that demonstrate the shortcomings of this. When you can't identify the enemy, the field levels out. Those on their home turf usually have an advantage too. And those fighting for a cause they're willing to die for can sometimes take out a much more powerful adversary that isn't planning on dying anytime soon.

roger — April 22, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


C4 isn't necessary - McVeigh showed us that. There used to be a handbook floating around back in the days of the Weather Underground - booby traps, pipe bombs, napalm - all very easy and quite effective. We borrowed from it (and the Vietcong) occasionally in the SF unit I was with in Panama.

roger — April 22, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HolyC -

Europeans are starting to abandon light rail - not to any great extent, but the dependency isn't the same as it was 20 years ago. There's something about driving from Point A to B without a couple of transfers that's hard to beat. (Those high speed ICE trains in Germany, and their counterpart systems in France and Italy, are another story entirely. I wish we had them here, instead of our crappy old AmTrak.)

We don't have a budget lare enough to build your vision - even if we axed all education, health care, and other MORE IMPORTANT things our State pays for.

And you ain't touching my DMV and licensing. You'll kick anything with more than 2 wheels off the highway - verdad?

roger — April 22, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I appreciate that you took the time and shared your perspective...* *You make some valid talking points...*

goldenoldie — April 22, 2013 at 2:42 p.m.

And you as well goldenoldie. One thing for sure, whatever Dave decides to do, the Columbian is sure to give him plenty of print.

If ink by the barrel counted as campaign contributions.....then.....:)

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


George W. Bush On Legacy: 'There's No Need To Defend Myself'

Speaking with the Dallas Morning News recently, Bush addressed his leadership on the Iraq War -- one of the most highly criticized chapters of his presidency -- saying that he was "comfortable" and "confident the decisions were made the right way."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRnFSg...

USA Today also caught up with close friends and family of the former president, who said that Bush "feels totally at peace" with his record. Former Bush strategist Karl Rove said that he "has an inner confidence ... that what he did was right."

And while Bush and some of his closest allies suggest that there is nothing about his legacy that needs defending, other sources close to the former president have suggested that the $500 million presidential library is an attempt to patch up his scarred reputation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/george-w-bush-legacy_n_3131037.html

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*In my opinion people that hoard anything relating to guns are screwed.*

holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 2:38 p.m.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say holycrap. I own two firearms, is that hoarding? If I owned four, six? Screwed in what way?

As far as the crapping your pants turning on your mother thing...I suppose it boils down to personal integrity. I don't believe courage should be equated to pulling a trigger.

I do believe most people will do whatever it takes to defend themselves or their loved ones. In that sense I disagree with the whole singing like birds-giving up grandma-messing themselves rant. Not sure what that was all about.

*See, you people have never experienced first hand a police state so you have no idea the extent of their methodology.*

*Whoever says the contrary has no idea of fear and human nature nor has been in a police state situation.*

I've spent time in a couple of third world countries but have never lived in one, and have never lived in a police state. (not that all 3rd world's are police states) It sounds like you have with your past comments and today's. Your experiences would be great to hear about.

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Here’s a recent story in the Reflector, that falls under the issue of politically correct.

Here’s the alleged offensive statement made by school board member/president J.Idsinga at some meeting of the Battle Ground City Council over the CRC issue:

> One person in attendance at the meeting told The Reflector that Idsinga spoke in opposition of the extension of light rail from Portland to Vancouver because there are streets in North Portland where white people aren’t welcome. When asked, Idsinga refused to re-visit his comments.

Really? So here’s my question – is the statement incorrect? Anyone?

kn_dalai — April 22, 2013 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


.....sigh

nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal



kn_dalai — April 22, 2013 at 10:33 p.m.

No, he's right. Even worse depending on the hour of your trip. Actually, I did some work there quite a few years ago and would only venture into certain areas in the morning when all were asleep.

hawkeye — April 22, 2013 at 11:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I am a visionary not a mummy! Money will come, Big biz will come, people will come. It is all good! I am thinking on my kids future so they hang around here, otherwise after college graduation they will be skipping town.*

holycrapola — April 22, 2013 at 5:36 p.m.

A visionary, huh. Well, holycrapola...did you see this one coming??? Check and see who's number one on the list:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/04/21/these-6-states-tax-the-poor-the-hardest.aspx

So what if they want to raise our sales tax again? So what if they want to toll the working class which includes the working poor who have no choice but to drive to Portland because our own local government has scared off countless other businesses? So what if they want to raise gasoline taxes by $.10 per gallon? So what if a bunch of companies close down and move out of state, displacing hundreds if not thousands of families. It's no bother...or as my in-laws would say (including the one who used to post here a couple of years back) ...it's no worries...just a little financial discomfort for some. Besides, it's just the poor people. They're not payin' for it...not at all! Heck, the states can afford to pay for them all...they're just spongin' off the system, right??? We've gotta keep up with Portland or we'll end up a dead community with nothing to show for. We need that light rail now, *don't we!!!*

No offense holyc...but in this case, you show all the signs of tunnel vision.

Sheesh!!!

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HolyC,

This has been discussed on and off for years, under the umbrella of the transient society. We used to grow up and stay in the same area all our lives. We knew everyone, had our life long friends, and were mostly content with our lot. Then, when the factories started dying and we transitioned to our economy being based on the services, we learned we would have to start moving to where the jobs are. That extended family which provided so much of our validation and self worth were gone. We started living around people we didn't know - they were often "different" and didn't give a damn about us as people. Then the 80s came, with the Yuppie culture and who/what you were being measured by earning power. Possessions became much more important - We had to go in debt and buy things so those around us could see how successful we are. And so on, up to today. The self destruction as an individual you point to has its roots in what's happened to our society. So, other than moving to that 5 acre lot out in the middle of nowhere, how do you suggest we fix this? Some of us are basing our opposition to Vancouver's redevelopment plans on this very issue - our nice "quiet" Suburbia - warts and all - is much closer to what we used to have than a crowded city.

Now, another thought process says this state you describe is what various societies have encountered in the past - when they've turned away from the dictates of their gods and began embracing the sins of human corruption and deviant sexual behaviors. I haven't subscribed to that thought process (those gods could also be blamed for many of our problems), but there does appear to be a correlation between societal decay and the death of nations, so....

roger — April 23, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


According to Columbian's CRC poll summary (Description of CRC -Q3, key subgroups-2), 60% of the CRC supporters aren't even registered to vote.

46% polled are only somewhat familiar with the CRC project.

75% would use I-205 instead of I-5 if tolls implemented.

**MY FAVORITE...**"Do you think Clark County Residents Should Be Allowed to Vote on the Columbia River Crossing, or not?

**87% said YES!**

How's that for pie in your face, Representative Moeller???

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie - I've been asking about those last two figures all last week - No response from the pro-CRC crowd, and no response from The C on why they didn't ask a follow on question to determine support if the I205 was also tolled. (Yes - we currently have a law that was inserted into last year's tolling bill banning this. That was a concession to get Ann Rivers and 3 others to vote for the budget. If tolling the I5 didn't produce the needed revenues, that law would vanish quickly.)

roger — April 23, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, if you could get any straight answers from anybody with the pro-CRC crowd, it would be a miracle. They're so set on their ways and they could care less about the financial impact this crossing project is going to put on the people of Clark County. I find it ironic that the pro-CRC crowd cannot fathom the reality that the burden of the toll paying will be forced upon the people of Clark County. It won't be a 50/50 split with the folks of Multnomah County. Sometimes I wonder if this is the overall plan...to bankrupt those already struggling to make ends meet and to redesign Clark County as an elitist society only. Too bad, they wouldn't be self sufficient. Money can't buy everything.

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

My comments are based on what the poll provided. I in no way consider this poll as a representation of our county and what the taxpayers/voters have to say. The only way the truth would come out is with a YES/NO vote to a bridge WITH Light rail.

Also holyc...do you understand the fact that the crossing project wouldn't be built overnight and that the funding to improve the interchanges is being cut out in the latest FTA report with information provided by the CRC? Tell me what motivational tools are in place which will help those whose businesses will be shut down due to "rights of way" for the Loo Rail? Tell me what motivational tools are in place for those who will lose their homes? Not what you suspect would be done...what they have written in paper stating how they'd help these people. Tell me what motivational tools will help those already using I-205 who will be adversely impacted by the increased traffic, should the tolls begin. You're choo choo doesn't go over the I-205 Bridge and buses are quite limited so that "mass transit" them ain't gonna ride.

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I think the tunnel vision comes from the ones that don't want to embrace the future. Golden, you don't have enough money to create your own kingdom and keep it as you please. It doesn't work that way. You guys need to give up and let the future get here before you get run over by the bus or train."

No holyc...the tunnel vision comes from those who don't give a damn about stepping on the toes of others to get what they want. We can improve our own existing transit system without the guidance of TriMet. We can improve our own county without some elitists holding federal tax dollars over the heads of our elected leadership in order to invest in another state's loo rail system. Already, our county has been offered TWO incentives in the past few weeks...improvements on our own jobs infrastructure (Integra and Port of Vancouver's recent agreement with crude oil storage and shipment) which I believe is a step in the right direction.

In recent weeks, you complained about Madore's comment that jobs are coming to Vancouver. If these two companies are any indication...the floodgates are beginning to open...and we DON'T NEED LOO RAIL in order to allow them in. Both companies have nothing to do with loo rail, holyc. How many more are coming our way??? Investing in jobs infrastructure is a higher priority than self-indulgent loo rail investments which will inevitably crumble the economy of Clark County and the people who live here.

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I in no way consider this poll as a representation of our county and what the taxpayers/voters have to say.*

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 6:50 a.m.

Please tell us what information you used to come to that conclusion.

mr_basil_seal — April 23, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And:

*400 people in a poll tell you what Clark County wants? You can't be that naive.*

holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

Please tell us what information you used to come to that same conclusion.

mr_basil_seal — April 23, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Biggest myths from the Boston Marathon bombing**

From "false flag" paranoia to alleged Saudi ties, the worst fear-mongering to come out of the Boston tragedy

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/22/biggest_myths_from_the_boston_marathon_bombing/

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Good article from Salon. Snopes addresses those theories, too.

My last unanswered question has not been addressed by either site yet: what were those Craft International (photos sure look like its insignia and uniform) private military-type security guys doing there that day? Who hired them?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

manthou — April 23, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


....*400 respondents.*
holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

That's your argument?

Please show us what has informed your thinking on what you consider a valid number of respondents.

mr_basil_seal — April 23, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 23, 2013 at 7:49 a.m.

Best guess? Behind the scenes Boston's threat level was elevated and they were contracted out by the city of other for added protection. Fascinating stuff watching this unfold.

If they were part of plot to bomb Boston, it's extremely unlikely they would where logo's advertising their presence. Some of these guys make Sgt. Rock look like a girl and are more than familiar with covert operations.

It is interesting their founder/top gun was murdered recently.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So I guess no one besides Hawkeye wants to discuss the politically correct berating that Mr.Idsinga is taking over making what, apparently, is a truthful statement. OK.

HC, you have repeatedly advocated for high population density, except for yourself and your five acres of course. Now you’re ridiculing the apartment construction, which was all about the Growth Management Act. You remember, to prevent urban sprawl which you ranted about the other day. What’s going in here bud? Sort of like how you’re a Libertarian, except when you’re a Totalitarian. Wow. Like I’ve said before, it’s kinda hard to know if you’re serious or just playin around, but I fear it’s the former.

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 7:08 a.m.

So you don't think port expansion is a good thing, holyc??? I hate to break it to ya, but the crude oil industry is alive and booming. Yeah, there's a possibility there could be an occasional spill and that's a concern even I have...but it's no more than what the ships in the river are already dumping...but we don't want to shut down the shipping industry now, do we??? They have ways of monitoring and cleaning up spills, holyc...and with new construction and technology, the likelihood of spills is much lower than what you would find in the St. John's area of Portland. I'd be more concerned with the potential issues of an environmental accident at places like SEH than I would at the port, although all potential environmental issues must be addressed before proceeding.

You claim I'm insane with regards to my thoughts on business in Vancouver. Why is that? Could it be because something Madore had said is starting to come true here???

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.

Wow. Just wow. Like I said....

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-

What is a trip to me, is how poorly this was planned, yet how 'successful' it was. A get-a-way to include a car jacking? Being chased by one or two cop cars then stopping and taking the fight to the cops ruining a possible get-away? Sounds suicidal to include the 19 yr old having second thoughts about suicide by cop and got back into the car, but later possibly shooting himself.

And to think, what kind of clue would we have if these guys wore a simple disguise? I think they went into this planning to die and causing as much mayhem in the process as they could.

This goes well beyond these two bastards taking this upon themselves to do, and involves organized/coordinated terrorist activity/training overseas and help within our borders in my opinion. Keeping it simple, doable, and designed not to fail leading up to the event. It's the after...wow.

Disclaimer>Just my opinion and subject to change with current events. [:O}

But that and a few bucks will buy you a gallon of gas to drive and get that over priced latte'. :)

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*So I guess no one besides Hawkeye wants to discuss the politically correct berating that Mr.Idsinga is taking over making what, apparently, is a truthful statement. OK.*

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m.

Maybe it's a matter of what people find important, and wondering what reasons why you and others would seek to pursue this matter. Joe Schmo's opinion is so relevant and all.

I suppose if you were to ask this same black population, if they feel safe going into certain 'white' areas they might have an opinion.

It's a great divisive issue to discuss though, and it goes much deeper that your PC inquiry. But I think you know that. **;**)

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


K_nd- You've sung the praises of Rush Limbaugh in the very recent past. Maybe it's time you changed venues. This is a typical Rush issue with no doubt! :)) God Bless.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 23, 2013 at 7:16 a.m.

An easy question I'd be more than happy to answer you, even if you accept my explanation or not.

Basil, if you take a look at the numbers of the people who answered the poll, you will clearly see the number of people in the city who were polled are not equal to the number of the people just outside city boundaries and in rural areas. The numbers should have been equally divided in my opinion. This project affects the entire county, not just the city.

Secondly, asking a question and ending it with "or not" is an easy way to trip up anybody who responds. Trickery??

Thirdly, the majority of the people polled were "somewhat familiar" with the crossing project...hence the responses were based on what they thought they knew rather than the actual facts presented. Coercion??? In another question scenario, they asked on current attitudes whether they support or oppose the CRC...showing a higher number of responses that didn't know until the information describing the crossing project in its current design, then the number of opposition raised 8% and supporters raised 1% at 46% and 45% respectively with 9% still unsure, based on the limited information provided.

To continue, the number of people registered to vote in this poll was 349 out of 400. That's 87% of the people polled...*not* the percentage of opinions of the voters...the ones who want to have and should have a direct hand in the decision-making process. From day one, the majority of voters have said NO to light rail. In November, the voters again said NO to funding for light rail OR bus rapid transit yet the push is on by those who support light rail and we're looking at the possibility of highway interchanges being left in the dust. In my opinion...the poll has a higher rate of inaccuracy, given the fact that it doesn't fully represent the opinion of the voters.

Note...there were no questions regarding the choice of LRT versus BRT. This information could have been utilized by C-Tran in securing federal funding for improvements...even with its flaws.

These are just a few samples of why I believe the poll was a misrepresentation of the majority opinion.

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.

You sure your in the P/V metro area??? We just paid $3.34 per gallon this week. Regarding jeopardizing the entire gorge area...You do realize the Columbia River Gorge is east of here, right? You do know what they're shipping downriver in the cargo trains, right??? If you have concerns about the C-River, then maybe you need to study up on what's happening at Hanford Reach these days. You know that's smack dab up against the C-River, right??? You know the fish in the area downriver from the Hanford Reach are so filled with toxins, that they're deemed unsafe to eat, right???

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> I suppose if you were to ask this same black population, if they feel safe going into certain 'white' areas they might have an opinion. -- nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.

I have no doubt that blacks or other non-whites, feel unsafe or unwanted in certain white areas. Nor should they be chastised for saying so. So should Idsinga be berated for what he apparently said?

You do understand the term "politically correct" do you not? It seems to be right up your alley.

Oh, BTW:

> Maybe it's a matter of what people find important, and wondering what reasons why you and others would seek to pursue this matter. -- nail

I also wonder why there are those who have made an issue out of this in the first place, which was my point. I'm sure that's what you meant now isn't it?

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 9:04 a.m.

I know one thing to a certainty. If it wasn't for a sense of humor I would have quit this world a long time ago.

Thanks for the word "gentrification". Quite applicable in these times.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.

See my comments @9:15 am.

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

Just to make my statement clear, there is and have been many areas of North Portland and now Southeast Portland that are loaded with gangs of several nationalities, not just African/Americans. To think it's only limited to blacks is plain ignorant.

hawkeye — April 23, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I also wonder why there are those who have made an issue out of this in the first place, which was my point. I'm sure that's what you meant now isn't it?*

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.

*try to make sense of the opinion of a guy that has more bases covered than the average bear.*

holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.

The placement of this particular base would be next to the right field foul line, in between the dugout and warning track. ;)

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.

*See my comments @9:15 am.*

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 9:25 a.m.

Once was more than enough. Thank you though. :))

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


and folks this is how our elected spend their day and our money, setting in laws to changes words more PC to a select few instead of working to get jobs in our state? Isn't there many other things more important and wrong that need attention than removing words from statutes? Fleecing of America just keeps on keeping on..

**’Penmanship’ is now ’handwriting’ as Washington state removes gender bias in statutes**

Washington state’s governor signed into law on Monday the final piece of a six-year effort to rewrite state laws using gender-neutral vocabulary, replacing terms such as “fisherman” and “freshman” with “fisher” and “first-year student.”

Lawmakers have passed a series of bills since 2007 to root out gender bias from Washington statutes, though a 1983 state mandate required that all laws be written in gender-neutral terms unless a specification of gender was intended.

“This was a much larger effort than I had envisioned. Mankind means man and woman,” said Democratic state Senator Jeanne Kohl-Welles of Seattle.

The new gender-neutral references, for example, include “journey-level plumber” instead of “journeyman plumber,” “handwriting” in place of “penmanship,” and “signal operator” for “signalman.”

“There’s no good reason for keeping our legal terms anachronistic and with words that do not respect our current contemporary times,” Kohl-Welles, the 475-page bill’s sponsor, told Reuters.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/23/penmanship-is-now-handwriting-as-washington-state-removes-gender-bias-in-statutes

ELISI — April 23, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 23, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.

Good point Hawkeye, and you will note that Idsinga is not alleged to have said "blacks". Only that "there are streets in North Portland where white people aren't welcome."

It was nail who brought up "the black population" @8:56 a.m.

So why are there some who now want him removed from his position over this? Double standard anyone?

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 23, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

I get so mad every time someone says "history". Should be "personstory":):):):):):)

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Good point Hawkeye, and you will note that Idsinga is not alleged to have said "blacks". Only that "there are streets in North Portland where white people aren't welcome."*

*It was nail who brought up "the black population" @8:56 a.m.*

Ohhh, my bad. My assumption was based on personal experience doing what I could to get B.O. elected. I walked many a N. Portland neighborhood and my assumption seems to be re-enforced with demographic data.

http://www.portlandonline.com/portlandplan/index.cfm?c=52257&a;=288623

[So I guess no one besides Hawkeye wants to discuss the politically correct berating that Mr.Idsinga is taking over making what, apparently, is a truthful statement. OK.

I also wonder why there are those who have made an issue out of this in the first place, which was my point.]

Yes. Your point was to make an issue out of something you believe should not be an issue.

Please, get to the heart of the matter. (I know you want to) And explain how your superior Libertarian beliefs fit into this equation. I believe you understand enough about your club to do this...yes?

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — April 23, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

From your article..

*Civil engineering terms such as “man hole” and “man lock,” also will not be changed because no common-sense substitutes could easily be found, Thiessen said.*

They should have asked me, the possibilities are endless! :))

..

*The bill passed the Democrat-controlled state House 70-22 on April 9 and unanimously cleared the state Senate on Feb. 8 before being signed by Democratic Governor Jay Inslee.
Washington state is the nation’s fourth to boast of eliminating gender bias from its official lexicon, following in the footsteps of Florida, North Carolina and Illinois, Kohl-Welles said.*

*Other states that have passed gender-neutral constitutional mandates include California, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Utah, Kohl-Welles said. At least nine other states are currently considering gender-neutral legislation, she said.*

*“Words matter,” said Liz Watson, a National Women’s Law Center senior adviser. “This is important in changing hearts and minds.”*

I am surprised some women take exception with this. It just sounds like language is shifting to be more 21st century with regards to women having equal footing. In addition to hearts and minds, language can mean a lot in both legal and other professional settings.

I'm sure a bunch of senior white men think this to be ridiculous also. [example-kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.]

I bet if you were to parlay legal costs, politician's time etc., regarding gender-neutral language, against the useless/futile efforts to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act, state lawmakers efforts would pale in comparison.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGKPHF...

Time's a wastin'!

Another beautiful day!

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> Yes. Your point was to make an issue out of something you believe should not be an issue. -- nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 10:17 a.m.

What total, utter nonsense. It is others who are making an issue out of this, and have even called for Idsinga's removal. It was the Reflector's lead story in last weeks paper, and there are two LTTE in this week's Reflector.

But yet I'm the one who has made an issue out of this by commenting on what others have started? Logic is not your strong point now is it? Leftist's brains are definitely wired differently. (funny how wired and weird both use the same letters).

As I've said before, there is really no point in engaging you. And one other on here I might add.

:):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I bet if you were to parlay legal costs, politician's time etc., regarding gender-neutral language, against the useless/futile efforts to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act, state lawmakers efforts would pale in comparison.
nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 10:36 a.m*

The time, money spent on idiotic changes boils my blood, as far as the health care act goes, if they'd have allowed the other side of the aisle in to discuss, add or subtract then pass a bill, I'd have no problem with it. As is, even Pelosi said "But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
"I’m confident…I’m hopeful that we’ll have a (health care) bill as a Christmas present for the American people."

This, after polls were showing a majority of the American people were against it, after several weeks of bruising (for Dems) town hall meetings in which citizens voiced their opposition to the bill, and after hundreds of thousands showed up in Washington to protest the bill…

"You go through the gate. If the gate’s closed, you go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we’ll pole-vault in. If that doesn’t work, we’ll parachute in. But we’re going to get health care reform passed for the American people."

At the time, 61% of the American people were saying it was time for Congress to scrap ObamaCare.

ahh yes and my fav one she said;

“I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil fuels.”

Needless to say, natural gas is a fossil fuel.

dingbat comes to mind

ELISI — April 23, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh and another thing nailingit, I must ask..

If you were buying a healthcare package for you and your family, wouldn't YOU read it to find out if it covers all your families needs at a price YOU can afford?

That Healthcare Act will affect each and everyone of us in the USA one way or another. Were we allowed to vote on it or even asked our opinion on it before it was rammed down our throats? The MAJORITY nailingit, said no as it stood. IF they would have taken time to really have looked it over added to subtracted from and set it out for all to see, listened to the people, maybe just maybe there wouldn't be such resistant to it.

ELISI — April 23, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — April 23, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.

I guess you missed the first full paragraph in the article about Tesoro and Savage Companies in the port. Well holyc...here it is for you once more. I've even highlighted the final sentence so that you can see the fact that it's for DOMESTIC PURPOSES:

*Tesoro Corporation and Savage Companies said Monday they've launched a joint venture to build and operate facilities to store, load and unload crude oil at the port. The crude oil would be shipped to the port by rail from the Bakken oil formation in North Dakota. **Then it would be hauled by ship to refineries in Washington, California and Alaska for domestic purposes, including gasoline for cars and trucks.***

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Leftist's brains are definitely wired differently. (funny how wired and weird both use the same letters).*

Leftist. The world becomes clear for folks like you with a narrow mindset. Just stick a label on it and file it away. Pencil pushing of the worst k_nd. (remember your pencil pushing whatever stuff rants? I always enjoyed those:) Whether or not you understand others means nothing to you, as long as you think you understand yourself.

This "funny" is referred to as 'anagram'. :)

*What total, utter nonsense.*

*As I've said before, there is really no point in engaging you.*

Sometimes folks continually engage in the same activity expecting a different outcome.

Over and over and over...expecting something different, yet with always the same result.

There's a word for that I believe. Somewhere.

You are using key phrasing indicating you are about to stomp your feet and take one of your emotional hiatus getaways.

Stick around k_nd. If for no other reason, your ideological logic validates the illogical, leaving many to feel logically logical.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yet another business moving to Vancouver!!!:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ap...

Cool!

Must be the floodgates are beginning to open...little by little, and again...far away from the proposed loo rail system to downtown!!! Ten jobs here, fifty there, a thousand at another...suddenly, the unemployment rate will be down and more people will be goin' to work...and it doesn't stop there. A young lady I know is quite determined to become a success in her business for which I know she can do it. I've seen her products. She has a natural talent. A young man who hasn't had a job in over 7 years...landed a job with training and full potential to some day own his own trade business. Another young man I know...is working full time and has decided to start his own small business (a one-man job for now) while his wife finishes her MBA...and it continues with others I know who are tired of trying to find a job and have decided to take the initiative to do something about it. A young couple I know, run their business from home...selling their products to local businesses and have grossed well over $35g between them...a good start. They're currently helping others learn the ropes so they can sell their goods as well!!! As their businesses expand...people will be hired. Two others I know run businesses from their home and are able to keep the mortgage/rent and bills paid as well as having a bit of chump change in the pockets. (Not one single young adult in this group ages 25-35...have any support for Loo Rail, BTW. And they aren't all related to me, either.)

Seems to me, things are a changin' for the better and I hope the trend continues. Clark County is changing, all right. The independence and diligence of these young entrepreneurs is the winning ticket.

Little by little, our county is coming alive. These are the hidden gems left out of the "employment" picture which need mentioning. More power to those who persevere. Good things happen!

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- My point with the Health Care Act comparison had nothing to do with the plan itself.

It was the waste (on going I believe, 33 times or something like that?) of time and $$$ knowing it is impossible to overturn at this point. Impossible, yet raising money promising to do just that while millions are being squandering and bilked from the taxpayer. Kinda like restricting abortion rights till it's overturned on appeal. And so many other social centered issues the right engages in.

Attorneys are washing each others hands with mud and using us as a towel.

At the end of the day nobody's clean.

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.

Stomp my feet? Emotional? As I've said before, you're good at the thing about a good defense is a strong offense.

However, your observation about a hiatus may be the most insightful you have ever had. Come to think of it - it may be the only insightful observation you have ever had:):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just came back from the store, getting some summer supplies at Bi-Mart (one of my favorite stores) and checked out the ammo supplies and of course there wasn't any. A guy came up to the counter and asked the lady if she had any 22 LR and she said no, not today. I said, I don't think anybody's got any and his reply was ***NAW, Obama's got it all!*** I told him I didn't think he shot 22 and he stomped off mumbling. So I thought about it and what everyone was saying the other day about ammo sales and gun powder and realized that people are hoarding ammo, buying it up as fast as the stores get it in and blaming the lack of it on Obama when they are causing it themselves. Now how stupid can they be?

hawkeye — April 23, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*As I've said before, you're good at the thing about a good defense is a strong offense.*

kn_dalai — April 23, 2013 at 2:06 p.m.

One of many things which makes thoughtful discourse with you near impossible.

Your approach to politics/life seems to be as one having the higher ground, knowing all and gifting mankind with your superior knowledge as you deem fit.

A legend in your own mind. ~Harry Callahan~

I believe most of us post wanting an exchange of ideas based in goodwill and a concern for others and Country. Why you post I don't know.

I do believe you want this President and his policies to fail, just like your mentor Rush. Am I right? Americans are just collateral damage. A consequence for voting this Leftist Socialist, whatever label that fits your need, into office.

What is most important is that we properly understand the role of government as you see it. As your club libertarian sees it.

Run off if you will, but I'm sure you're taken to task on Facebook and the other sites you part your brand of wisdom to as well. But remember...

*Traveling about life looking downward callouses one's soul.*

*Better to look upward, listen, and bathe thyself in humility.*

*For to understand important matters, matters of the soul, one must die to birth wisdom.*

**~***lian tigni***~**

[Chronicles of Pharmnia>Lifes chapter>The Imparting of precious stones through portholes filled with sand>circa 1667>Rare Writes from a feather pen]

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail Nail nail. Such a nice day. let Kn post what he wants. I feel generous today. Too nice a day to argue. If you ever feel we are bad down here, take a look at the FB side. Inane, stupid, idiotic, say-nothing postings. And just like here, it's usually the same old crowd (I do except Roger from that assessment). We all look like geniuses down here. Probably because we are.

Did you see that they are getting ready to open Bush's prez library? Man, that must be the hall of lies and shame alright. And sadly, the man still doesn't realize what he really did. Ah well, ignorance really is bliss.

I do fault O for keeping a lot of the bad things. Erosion of rights never sits well with me. Patriot Act, torture, Gitmo, military courts without lawyers, "enemy combatants", all in the name of keeping ye olde fatherland safe. Has a familiar ring, doesn't it. I remember another fatherland that started out that way.....(Mensch!)Pardon the rant.
Just burns me.

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: Good to see you stopping by again! Rant away. I have been all week, sounding a little off my rocker at times. I am not crossing over to the Alan Jones/Glenn Beck fans, though. Not that far gone. It makes for fascinating reading at times.

Anyone hear the interview of the poor guy who was falsely jailed for the ricin mailings? His account of the interrogation ought to give us all pause. It you are a suspect, it is guilty until proven innocent. I am glad that I have a couple of criminal defense attorneys as friends on speed dial, just in case :)

BTW, "mensch" is a complimentary moniker used to describe a person of integrity. At least in the Yiddish and culture to which I am familiar.

manthou — April 23, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit- *Too nice a day to argue.*

It's beautiful out! I managed to do both today (dig the day & argue) and some yard work. Out of the three, the only one I'd do without is the arguing. Good advice luvit.

*Did you see that they are getting ready to open Bush's prez library? Man, that must be the hall of lies and shame alright. And sadly, the man still doesn't realize what he really did. Ah well, ignorance really is bliss.*

I referenced it @ nailingit — April 22, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. Check out the fun vid! Spot on.

Halls of lies and shame alright. Bush, Condi, Cheney, Rumsfeld, the whole lot of them....denial is most likely the only way they can sleep at night.

And we got one in Florida to watch put for.

*I do fault O for keeping a lot of the bad things.*

Same here on some matters. On the moral front, drone strikes killing many times the innocents as it does targets sticks out to me...big time.

In a general sense we are one people, one world.

Having said that, I'm not getting daily threat assessments and bad guy briefings.

These drone strikes will haunt us as a nation, like Iraq. A great help wanted poster for terrorist recruitment. We just helped detour a planned Al-Qaeda attack at the Canadian border.

Anywho, Lennon had it right. We didn't listen then and we're not now.

Give Peace A Chance

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I actually read here daily, just had no brain flow to post. I worry with you. And shame on what passes as media these days. Drivel from mornig til night, all to ensure they are first to report.

Nail, with you on drones. Sounded good at first, but after thinking... We do tend to ensure the rest of the world sees us as aggressors (see Bush, Iraq, etc....) We focus on war, we do not focus on peace. Too much money to be made.

Holy: I do not like Eyman. Never did. This will cost us once more. However, there is something so badly wrong with the whole undertaking, I am ready to join a lawsuit myself. Maybe we all need to circulate a petition to Olympia, asking for a real investigation???

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Darnit, people. If women were in charge of everything, this would be a better world.** We know how to negotiate and talk and compromise and we do not need to flex muscles to compensate for you know what. Men and their testosterone.

Ok, now that was a rant. But I bet ya all women down here would agree.

** excluding Palin and Bachman et al.

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou: Mensch in German can mean a few things, depending on emphasis. A person of integrity, a woman of somewhat lose character who is a lot of fun though, a great character, an expression of frustration (like I used). Translated directly it just means human.

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*a woman of somewhat lose character who is a lot of fun though,*

The world can't have enough...:)

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL, Nail, right. Please note that this lose woman is considered quite ok though. This is not a negative slant, more an amused remark.

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One reason I don't care for these hucksters who promote fear, the wrong people take them seriously. Nothing like making money producing fear mongering gas, and pouring it on a raging fire.

No lack of ego for this guy! He really believes he's all that. I wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd.

**Alex Jones Downplays Connection To “Boston Bomber”**

Tamerlan Tsarnaev reportedly listened to the conspiracist radio host. “My show is anti-terrorism.”

WASHINGTON — Alex Jones is not surprised that the media is reporting that Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a fan of his Infowars website, he told BuzzFeed on Tuesday.

"It's just standard," Jones said. "Anyone you talk to is familiar with my show. When I go out in public, half the people I meet in this country and in other countries too say they listen to my show. The show is bigger than the mainstream media admits."

Jones — whose site has peddled conspiracy theories about the Boston Marathon bombing and suggested that Tsarnaev is innocent — conceded that Tsarnaev "may have actually been a listener."

..

The AP reported on Tuesday that Tsarnaev "took an interest" in Infowars and was also interested in getting a copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," the anti-Semitic fraud that purports to show a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.

"I've seen this before," Jones said. "The federal government trying to connect me to tragedies. That's the media and the government's own conspiracy theories."

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/alex-jones-downplays-connection-to-boston-bomber

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 8:20 p.m.

:))

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here you go, Nails - An original.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6j5ZM...

roger — April 23, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger - there's a classy Mensch!!!!!

luvithere — April 23, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 23, 2013 at 8:30 p.m.

Sweet! What a fun vid. I fall in love too easily...

nailingit — April 23, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: I agree that women, in general, have a more cooperative, collegial leadership style. This is one reason why police departments recruit qualified females so zealously. They use verbal de-escalation before force.

I see that the Democratic and Republican women of the Senate meet regularly to discuss collaborative legislative strategies and just had a dinner with the President at the White House. He wants them to help him tame those savage men. :)

I cannot wait until 2016 when Hillary will win.

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anothr reason to have laws in stone at the federal level. Do we want misinformed right wingnuts deciding matters on contraception (can't believe this is even part of a conversation) abortion, voting rights etc.?

I'm starting to favor the Fairness Doctrine. This type of media (Glenn Beck, Alex Jones) garbage not only encourages terrorists, but influences lawmakers! Let alone the damage done at the polling booths.

Sooner or later Americans will denounce this garbage in a meaningful way.

**NH lawmaker endorses “false flag” conspiracy theory**

The Republican state representative urges readers to visit Alex Jones' website

New Hampshire Republican State Rep. Stella Tremblay posted a video from conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Glenn Beck’s Facebook page Friday laying out Jones’ theory that the Boston Marathon bombing was executed by the government. “The Boston Marathon was a Black Ops ‘terrorist’ attack. One suspect killed, the other one will be too before they even have a chance to speak,” she wrote. “Infowars broke the story and they knew they had been ‘found out.’”

“There’s just too many things going on that, to me, doesn’t make any sense,” Tremblay told the local Fosters’ Daily Democrat, explaining other parts of a theory that is all too familiar a little over a week after the bombings.

It probably won’t make Glenn Beck happy to hear that Infowars “broke the story,” considering that Jones and Beck seem to hate each other.

Last October, Tremblay sent an email to all of her colleagues suggesting that President Obama was not born in the United States.

This type of thing is a frequent problem for a tiny state with 400 House of Representative members.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/nh_lawmaker_endorses_false_flag_conspiracy_theory/

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*polling booths* should read voting booths. Not one to self correct but this is a a major difference.

Thank you.

Another beautiful day? Yeah!

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So, The Pres wants the women to help tame those savage men? Hah!!! Ain't gonna happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNjTay...

roger — April 24, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: :)))

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's about time somebody said it!

**Brian Sims, Pennsylvania Democrat, On Abortion: We Did Not 'Swear To Uphold The Bible' (VIDEO)**

Pennsylvania's state House of Representatives voted on Tuesday to pass House Bill 818, which bans state insurance plans set up under the Affordable Care Act from offering abortion coverage. The bill's Republican backers argued that it prevents taxpayer dollars from being used to pay for abortion.

Opponents of the bill contend that it would penalize poor women who cannot afford to access abortion, and would prevent women from using their own money to pay for an insurance plan that covers the procedure. Currently, more than 80 percent of private insurance plans cover abortion.

"As a civil rights advocate, I see clearly as do millions of men and women across the commonwealth that this bill's purpose is to discriminate against women, and most often women with less means than many of my colleagues have today," Sims said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/brian-sims-abortion-pennsylvania_n_3141950.html

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**What recovery? US rich get richer, middleclass treading water**

Income inequality surged during the first two years of the economic recovery, as the top 7 percent of American households was the only group to experience an increase in their net worth.

“Inequality is as dear to the American heart as liberty itself,” William Dean Howells once observed. But this quaint aphorism notwithstanding, the latest report on wealth polarization in the US may be difficult for many Americans to accept.


The top 7 percent of Americans saw their average net worth explode by 28 percent between 2009 and 2011, while the wealth of the remaining 93 percent of the population steadily declined during the same period, according to a study by the Pew Research Center.


From 2009 to 2011, the average net worth of the country’s 8 million wealthiest households surged from an estimated $2.7 million to $3.2 million, the Pew study said. For the 111 million households that make up the bottom 93 percent, average net worth plunged 4 percent, from $140,000 to an estimated $134,000.

image from http://www.pewsocialtrends.org

The wealth chasm separating the top 7 percent and the rest of American society increased from 18-to-1 to 24-to-1 between 2009 and 2011. Meanwhile, the most affluent 7 percent of households owned 63 percent of the nation’s household wealth in 2011, up from 56 percent in 2009.

The results of the study throw a spotlight on a decades-long trend of increasing wealth disparity across the country, despite growing social and political awareness of the issue. In September 2011, protesters from the Occupy Wall Street movement descended on Manhattan, the financial heart of the US, and in Washington and elsewhere, to protest against rising social and economic inequality, corporate greed and political malfeasance.

Although the last presidential election between Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney attracted attention to issues of inequality, **proposed tax legislation aimed at narrowing the wealth gap has failed to pass in Congress.**

Read more @ http://rt.com/usa/us-financial-crisis-wealth-occupy-wall-street-307/

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Why People Believe in Conspiracies**

*A skeptic's take on the public's fascination with disinformation*

Why do people believe in highly improbable conspiracies? In previous columns I have provided partial answers, citing patternicity (the tendency to find meaningful patterns in random noise) and agenticity (the bent to believe the world is controlled by invisible intentional agents). Conspiracy theories connect the dots of random events into meaningful patterns and then infuse those patterns with intentional agency. Add to those propensities the confirmation bias (which seeks and finds confirmatory evidence for what we already believe) and the hindsight bias (which tailors after-the-fact explanations to what we already know happened), and we have the foundation for conspiratorial cognition.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: We have many legislators, it seems, who think their holy book (there are so many out there) trumps the nation's Constitution, don't we?

If one accepts the public trust that political service demands, then it seems to me that upholding our nation's Constitution is first and foremost.

Problem is: not all legislators are Constitutional scholars. You don't need to be, though, to understand its principles.
_______________________

Holycrapola: David Madore entered politics without having a firm grasp on laws and procedure. He is an idealogue and hopes to mandate his world view on us all. I keep thinking that there is a deep, dark underbelly to this wolf in sheep's clothing and it has not yet been revealed. I hope I am wrong and this is my too-cynical view of politicians.

I still am looking outside Clark County for a place to rest my aging soul. This relentless CRC "sturm and drang" (how's that for German, luvithere?!) is unhealthy to us all, no matter where we stand on the issue.

Seattle is starting some sort of "Happiness" movement. Maybe we should join in? :)

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Conspiracy theories are fascinating to examine. Sometimes I think the far-fetched is easier to swallow than the simple truth.

They also bring increased traffic to one's website. :)

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jumping the shark.....

*Lew Waters · Top Commenter · Works at Stateside Associates Best Local Politics Blog
....
Everywhere tax dollars are spent is waste.*

....

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ap...

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Basil, Do you pay me... 400 people mean nothing! Absolutely nothing!*

holycrapola at 8:34 a.m.

Oh... Got it...

Can't be bothered to actually bring forward what you use to inform your thinking.

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Basil, if you take a look at the numbers of the people who answered the poll, you will clearly see the number of people in the city who were polled are not equal to the number of the people just outside city boundaries and in rural areas. The numbers should have been equally divided in my opinion. This project affects the entire county, not just the city.*

goldenoldie — April 23, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.

There may be more math involved; say rather than creating a false dichotomy ...

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**What recovery? US rich get richer, middleclass treading water**

coupla things-the recession has created a new class, the unemployable. We may be in an era of neo-feudalism.

the police response to the Boston bombings convinced me we are in a fascist state, and as the corporate media pounds away with misinformation and all kinds of perceived threats, people accept the fascist state out of misguided fears. Statistically, you're more apt to be injured by your own furniture or nailed by a shark than a terrorist, but that seems to be a pointless point. The more the corporate media spreads fear and hysteria, the better for the fascist regimes.

I remember a quote that goes something like "when fascism arrives, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross".

mrd — April 24, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 24, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.

"when fascism arrives, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross"

Fascism arrived here just a few years after it arrived in Europe. FDR's policies of a strong central government was the arrival of fascism. People were convicted for growing wheat for their own consumption, industries were nationalized, people of Japanese and German decent were imprisoned and the Office of Censorship was created.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 24, 2013 at 7:59 a.m.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the value conspiracy hucksters bring to the table.

They devalue and confuse a political process that is already hard for many to wrap their heads around.

I place more value in someone yelling fire in a fire free crowded theatre. At least they're not bilking people for millions and negatively influencing everyone from lawmakers to terrorists.

To get any kind of conspiracy fix I might have, I'll turn to the X-FILES. Well done and... you never know...:)

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*the police response to the Boston bombings convinced me we are in a fascist state,*

mrd — April 24, 2013 at 9:07 a.m

How would you have coordinated efforts in the immediate aftermath of the Boston Bombings?

I have a feeling, there are a few Bostonians who would take umbrage with your statement.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.

"I have a feeling, there are a few Bostonians who would take umbrage with your statement."

Yes, but I am sure plenty of people from Watertown are complaining, and lawsuits will follow.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh, it took me a minute or two to find you guys. Someone is screwing with the menu.

hawkeye — April 24, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 24, 2013 at 10:23 a.m.

Ummmm, except per your examples, American instances of such behavior go back to at least Shays' Rebellion.

I'd posit that there is either a gap in your knowledge of American history or you are relying on an interpretation that has a very exclusive set of tropes.

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Were still waiting for the President to bring the " full might of the US" to finding the terrorists who killed our people in benghazi to justice. He doesn't seem as hell bent on that though. Kinda like it never happened and sweeping it under the preverbial red carpet..It will raise it's ugly head however in 2015...

Huckster- One who uses aggressive, showy, and sometimes devious methods to promote or sell a product... Well that splains our President and Hillary to a TTTTTT... Misleading, Misinformative and to sell their current agenda to to Americans.

vanwadreamer — April 24, 2013 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I had trouble finding the Forum link, too. They moved it to Opinion. Apt.

nailingit: No problem with a difference of viewpoint, as you know. I am actually surprised at how much I agree with frobert and mrd on this issue. It pleases me immensely to be able to see beyond a black and white simplicity and to nod my head in agreement with them on here. Fro, at least, gets beat up quite a bit and he keeps on keeping on. Good for him.

It might have to do with the fact that my close circle of friends and family include a few federal public defenders. Like the unfortunate Elvis impersonator (I was shocked, he said, to realize that I was treated as guilty until proven innocent) who was falsely accused and arrested for the ricin mail, I think the general public would be disappointed and dismayed at how much misconduct goes on when the government wants to make a case about something.

The First Amendment protects all speech, even the ones someone else considers a wacko. So let Alan Jones rail away. That means you and I get to, too. The other day, I was reading that animal snuff videos are protected speech, according to one court of law. Outrageous to most of us, but the courts are very liberal in their protection of free speech.

When you put it all together there probably is a little bit of truth from all sides. It is putting them together and being willing to be wrong sometimes.

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 24, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.

Within days the Ricin guy was proven innocent. Other justice systems...a lot longer, if ever.

No doubt our system is as flawed as those who designed it and work it, but I know of no better.

*I am actually surprised at how much I agree with frobert and mrd on this issue*

Perhaps this alone should give you pause. (Just kidding fro & d! Don't yell please!:)

I have a friend or two deep in the security biz. There would be those who would say people who staunchly stand behind their interpretation of free speech, regardless of circumstance, see B & W. Just sayin'.

I think if we knew a fraction of what is happening behind the scenes regarding terrorism, most of us would be looking at Belize to retire! :)

Then there's that yelling fire in a crowded theatre thing. Like the government did the Boston massacre and innocents are being held and mistreated. At what point...

I 100% agree with your post about free speech. If people want to make hucksters like Beck & Jones wealthy for peddling this stuff, so be it.

But, as a people, even though I don't like it on it's face, let's consider the Fairness Doctrine. Why?

*When you put it all together there probably is a little bit of truth from all sides. It is putting them together and being willing to be wrong sometimes*

It's been brought up before about the thing. If some are dominated/indoctrinated with one sided info, some aren't smart enough to see through it. Maybe we as a society should bring equal footing and give many a leg up.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 12:57 p.m.

It's been brought up before about the thing.

[should read] It's been brought up before about the IQ thing.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.

Do you care to bring forth any evidence, or explain your thought process in comparing Shays' rebellion to the actions of FDR?

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HolyC,

Why all the bold print?

As to traffic to P'Town - The plan is that the old bridges will stay up and functioning until the new ones are open for business. HOWEVER, they'll start tolling the old bridges as soon as possible - tentatively 2015 - reason unclear, but I think it's supposed to be to build a small surplus so they're able to have enough for making payments during the initial period when deviation to I205 is expected.

You know, for someone that doesn't like being told how to live his life, you're sure willing to do this to others. People that are going to do things like carpool or ride the bus are probably doing so already - This project won't change behavior. And to suggest that those who work in Portland should move if they don't like this? Not one but two economies will take a serious hit if that happens - both here and in P'Town.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wise up people, your home is your most important investment, is it? Shouldn't you be asking those questions to your Ass-essor by now, or he just doesn't have a clue about it, kind of above his head to come up with a study as such? Does he have to run to WSU and pull someone's strings? What isn't it? Why aren't you asking now? It is your money isn't it?

holycrapola — April 24, 2013 at 12:35 p.m

Sounds to me like you want everyone else to fight your battles for you. If you are pissed at the assessor, go after him yourself ---- oh wait, you DON'T live on this side of the ditch.

hawkeye — April 24, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert at 1:12 p.m.

No problem.

Shays' Rebellion came to a head as we were rethinking the Articles of Confederation. A major issue with the AC was a lack of national political power and Shays' influenced that thinking. Also, Shays is a classic example of how a market economy drives the action of political power.

You might do better thinking of the favorable comparison between John Hancock's action to not enforce the hard currency demands with FDR's actions brought to actively assist the most downtrodden.

We could also look at Lincoln's suspension of the right of habeas corpus as an effort to strengthen and make more authoritarian the power of the federal government.

For your other points, we could look at

2)the acrimony between the Federal government during GW's administration and the distilleries of the (then) frontier.

3) The railroads were nationalized in WWI

4) You seem to have forgotten that we had two German-American internment camps during WWI.

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.

Your examples are weak, and cannot in any meaningful way be compared to the massive expansion of Federal authority under FDR. Fascism, requires a overpowering central authority, that was unknown in the United States prior to FDR. Wilson was a good example for you to use, he paved the way for FDR's fascist state.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What is CISPA and why President Obama is threatening to veto this bill if it passes the Senate. It already passed in the House.

Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act

Hint: It has a lot to do with gathering intelligence about us online and erosion of civil liberties:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/2/2993495/cispa-hr-3523-business-support-opposition

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 24, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

Perhaps, instead of spewing out revisionist libertarian/conservative fallacies, there was an effort to support claims like ".. paved the way for FDR's fascist state..", "..unknown in the United States prior to FDR..", and "..cannot in any meaningful way be compared.."....

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 3:41 p.m.

I see you are still better at ad hominem fallacies than you are at defending your position.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*There may be more math involved; say rather than creating a false dichotomy ...*

mr_basil_seal — April 24, 2013 at 8:44 a.m.

Oh no doubt in my mind, Mr_Basil. I gave you some examples, not all...and the focus of the false dichotomy should be directly at the CRC as well; and the reasoning by those in the public eye who support it. Is it all about green energy or is it all about the greenbacks? And why has the focus of the crossing changed from the beginning? It used to be improved freight and traffic mobility with new interchanges which would be more efficient and a high-occupancy concept built into the project which originally had multiple choices. Now, they're claiming the crossing won't provide any better commute time of only one minute improvement, the interchanges wouldn't be done till later on with the possibility of acquiring future federal funding, but light rail would be built. Light rail...at $170 million per mile to a dead end point with no future extension??? And that doesn't even include the interest accrued on the bonds to be paid by taxpayers.

Since we're talking about falsehoods...get back to me when you've figured out why the promoters are getting away with economic murder and the taxpayers...the voters hands are tied, thanks in part to folks like Jim Moeller and Tim Leavitt who are adamantly against voters rights in this matter.

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seems to me, the folks at the Columbian are doing their little part to organize the opinion section and FINALLY considering the forums as something worth categorizing.

I'm still wondering why Mister Lou's weekly "Press Talk" is categorized as "Local News," tho. Maybe he'll join the ranks of the "Opinion" section as well.

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie I posted on the other side that what a lot of people are not looking at or they arn't paying attention is the fact that business is already paying fuel surcharges of 7 to 8% or more.That has already been passed to the Washington consumer.Now add that 7 to 8% to a new gas tax and licence fee along with the tolls and you will see that everyone that makes a purchase in Washington will be paying that toll even if you don't use the bridge.Those that do use the bridge will be paying the toll twice.Unless you ride the light rail to Oregon to do all your shopping.

timerick — April 24, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: Both you and I have lived in both of these states: Oregon and WA.

I have been remembering a conversation I had with an Oregon legislator years ago, way before the CRC was a twinkle in an engineer's eye.

I was lamenting the fact that school levies in OR were difficult to pass, compared to WA. I was wondering about this notable difference between the two neighboring states.

This person reduced my question to an overly-simple explanation that takes on new meaning today, in light of Kitzhaber's warning.

The legislator said: Oregon values Transportation over Education. WA values Education over Transportation.

So simple, but remember that Neil Goldschmidt was a US Secretary of Transportation and what state did he hail from?

Maybe there is some truth to this generalization?

manthou — April 24, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

If someone "takes umbrage" at my statements, so be it. When armed agents are forcing folks out of their homes at gunpoint, so they can execute a warrantless search, for whatever reason, that's beyond bad. Doesn't matter how much the public is outraged, that doesn't, in my opinion, give the pOlice the right to trample over citizen's rights. I also think it should be noted the suspect was found in a guy's boat after he noticed blood on the tarp and a torn strap, I think it was. The house to house invasions did no good anyway. Then the pOlice, with no provocation, as I understand it, began shooting into the boat. Kinda like getting a warning shot in the forehead.

Now that the police, aided by a media frenzy, have pulled off putting a city in "lockdown" (gag and puke here) what makes you think they'll never team up again? Pound on your door and remove you and yours at gunpoint then ransack your house? Looking for say, a child molester? A drug dealer that escaped arrest?

And why point guns at and frisk down women? They weren't even looking for a woman.

Maybe I'm over the top, but what I must endure to get in a freakin' plane is sickening. My 82 year old mom (then) was whisked away at an airport because she had a little Swiss army knife on a keyring.

mrd — April 24, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 24, 2013 at 5:03 p.m.

mrd I get ya. I totally do. But again, how would you handle it? Lots of mistakes to go around I'm sure. I do believe they were trying to protect the population at large. They should present info as to why they did what.

And why point guns at and frisk down women? They weren't even looking for a woman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3i...

They're running an active terrorist op. They are working real time intel to prevent further mass destruction. Ask some of these guys how they treat a woman at a Sandbox checkpoint. They don't know who's all involved at this time and will take any measure needed to ensure mass casualties do not happen again. Women, kids whatever. Jerks and their holy wars don't give a good crap.

This event should not be equated with everyday crime. It's a terrorist attack on US soil. A right cross to freedom with the world watching.

Everyone one involved with this should be brought to justice with the full weight of federal law used as a suppository.

Anyway, I get where you are coming from, and kinda agree.

But I understand extraordinary events, at times, require extraordinary action.

It's a great conversation to be had. Already some are attempting to use this tragedy for political gain.

A testament to America's soul.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2gQo-...

Alright I'll say it. I know everyone else has been thinking it.

Where is the man of steel? The big guy with the red cape who's more powerful than a locomotive and faster than a speeding bullet. Where's he been slacking off to?

If there ever was a time...

What if he's Muslim?

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know, there's something going on that makes this place seem right again - most of us are carrying on about things going on in the nation and in this area. Meanwhile, Sir Basil and frobert are having a debate about Shay's Rebellion and the fascist policies of FDR. (Or something of that nature. I figured out a long time ago that it's best to stay out of this exchange - similar to interrupting a married couple arguing, they're both likely to turn on anyone who dares interrupt.)

Okay, HolyC - You use the bold print to get our attention because what you want to say is more important than whatever the others are talking about at that moment. Sounds rather arrogant - Seeing as how you're a P'Towner, are you possibly ex-Mayor Sam continuing his battle against the unwashed masses of Vantucky? That approach is in line with his style.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails - That would be appropriate. Many of our Christians still can't come to grips that their leader was nothing more than an itinerant Jewish Pharisee rabbi - might as well stir that pot a bit more. But I'm still holding out that The Grays are behind the scenes directing everything....

roger — April 24, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And what kind of name is Kal El anyhow? Sounds like something from the Muslim world to me!!!

roger — April 24, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 24, 2013 at 4:56 p.m.

Definitely an eye opener. Yeah...we were Orygunians and now we're Warshingtonians. Some say we moved here because of the rural setting...wide open spaces. Stating for myself of course, when I first moved here...I was quite surprised at the laid back attitude of the people. They were a bit irritated with us "transplants," lol...now I see the reason...they didn't want a sudden barrage of "transplants." They preferred the county to remain...country like. My grandmother and her sisters lived here in Vancouver around the turn of the century so in a way, I was coming home and that's how I see it, even though I was born in Orygun. My reason for moving here...marriage. Would I ever move back to Portland??? Not even if someone paid me to do it. I"d move to another county in Washington before moving back to the 'burbs.

Vancouver...Clark County in fact...

Is one heckuva conglomeration of independent-thinking folks. Those of us who speak up for what we believe is good for our county...we take pride in our lifestyles. We take pride in the history of our county and we take pride in our community. We want to see progress that is organized and well thought - well planned...and we want to be part of that progress so in future generations, they would be amazed at the end result, thanks to our efforts.

Regarding the crossing project...the light rail extension of only 5 miles of track at a cost of $170 million per mile...and no future plans of rail extension...

I see that as poor planning which instead of progress...it will regress into debt issues which will affect not only TriMet and *our* C-Tran, but each and every business, homeowner and taxpayer. It will shut down our city...possibly our county. If the bridge height adjustment of 116' is approved, that will eliminate at least 1,200 jobs and possibly move a million-dollar maker out of the county...a company which provides good-paying jobs and tax revenue to the city. Now, the FTA has given a new, lower price on the crossing but it will eliminate improvements on interchanges. If that includes Hwy 14...then what does that leave Vancouver??? What traffic impact will that have on I-205 and Vancouver city streets???

More congestion at the bridge...or a closed access onto I-5???

Just another glimpse into the mind of miss goldenoldie and her concerns about the crossing project.

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 24, 2013 at 6:47 p.m.

What I have found about "Kal El," it is possibly Hebrew for "the Voice of God" or "All of God."

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick, goldie, et.al.,

People need to understand that tolls will pay the major portion of the CRC project. We were promised this when Gov Gregoire fielded a question two years ago when she and Kitz had their little meeting to say build the bridge - someone asked about the Fed's other cost share - the $400 million loan that people were starting to hear wasn't going to be there - she responded that this money would just have to come from somewhere else. Tolls are that somewhere. The funding for that TIFIA loan is not expected to be there; there's only $500 mil total in that account, and we won't get it all.

Toll revenues will be split between the two states. Oregon has no clue where to get the approx $750 mil needed to pay off their $450 mil bonds; want to take a guess what money they'll use? Annette Cleveland let the cat out of the bag for WA - When/if the Senate blocks our $450 mil, they plan on trying to sell tolling bonds to try to raise the money - and tolling bonds are revenue bonds repaid from tolls.

I also saw an analysis several weeks ago of what's being lumped under the LRT part of the project - the same one that has people screaming about project money going to finance the Gresham rail car maintenance facility, building a new TriMet Operations Center, and various other 'out of project area' costs. And over here this money will pay for the parking garages. They're pursuing $850 mil from New Starts; it's unheard of to get 100% of what you ask for on a project this size (though Patty Murray may swing this one). Anyhow, they were at about $950 mil and climbing. Want to guess who gets to pay for any of this not covered by New Starts?

This is the doom and gloom prophecy that many - most notably Joe Cortright and local (until recently) conservative blogger Robert Dean - kept harping on. No one has the money for this project - all those cost shares are a wish, used to sell the "need" for the project to enough supporters so that, once we "discover" a lot of it won't come as planned, they'll be all too happy to accept raising it through sales of high bonds to be repaid by those paying tolls.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Goldie.

Nails - We've been set straight. Superman is NOT a Muslim. He's a Jew. I just hope he's not one with a Zionist bent; after all the negative comments I've made about Israel I might have to go into hiding.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I finally read the Sir Basil/fro exchange, and I'm think his lordship is probably closer to being correct. Fro rightly points out that the magnitude of the federal gov't takeover by FDR's gov't was unprecedented, but I'd say Lincoln's suspension of civil liberties (among other actions) was every bit as radical and far reaching in impact - when comparing what was and what came after.

But I gather they're done for the day, so --- Whatever. I was wondering whether this grew out of the suspension of Miranda debate, or if just something out of the blue.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. and at 7:22 p.m.

If they'd only take off their ruby slippers and realize Auntie Em isn't there to rescue them. They've clicked their heels three times...and still only more debt on the horizon!!! Regarding Superman...you're welcome...I think...er...well...

hmm....

8))

..

Timerick...it seems lately to be something of importance for leaders to tax, toll and fee the heck out of everyone. Do you think they'll ever realize what it is they're doing to all of us...or do they know what they're doing? Some may say this is all part of the plan with Agenda 21.

Where's Robin Hood when you need him???

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I see the surviving bomber was finally read his Miranda rights, once they determined he wasn't part of a larger group.

I also see Vice Pres Joe Biden decided to go on a rant, calling the brothers "two twisted, perverted, cowardly, knockoff jihadis." Nice - I wonder how many are out there trying to come up with something even bigger, so they can make him eat those words. No wonder the Dems are talking Hillary in '16 - this guy can be a real bozo sometimes.

roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


More fleecing of the American taxpayers..

**24 Current And Former IRS Employees Indicted For Benefits Fraud**

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 17, 2013

Memphis, TN – United States Attorney Edward L. Stanton III and Shelby County District Attorney General Amy Weirich announced today that 24 current and former employees of the Internal Revenue Service have been charged for crimes relating to fraudulently obtaining more than $250,000 in government benefits.

Thirteen of the current and former IRS employees have been charged federally with making false statements to obtain unemployment insurance payments, food stamps, welfare, and housing vouchers. All thirteen, individually charged in separate indictments, are alleged to have falsely stated that they were unemployed while applying for or recertifying those government benefits.

“According to the allegations in the indictment, while these IRS employees were supposed to be serving the public, they were instead brazenly stealing from law-abiding American taxpayers,” said U.S. Attorney Edward L. Stanton III. “These charges demonstrate our unwavering resolve to work with our law enforcement partners and hold accountable anyone who fraudulently obtains government benefits and violates the public’s trust.”

http://www.justice.gov/usao/tnw/news/2013/APR17IRS.html

ELISI — April 24, 2013 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Very interesting discussions this week in the cellar. Highly enjoyable actually, agree or disagree. At least we are talking!

Nails - for you. To continue our discussion re Bush library. A quick headline as I could not stomach reading more of what that man had to say:
President George W. Bush told CNN's John King that he's confident he and Laura Bush "helped improve the human condition."

Delusional much?? Booze fried the cells? Or just that idiotically dumb?

Roger - what's wrong with Biden saying those things? I called the brothers much worse things. Beat's McCain's push for a militarized USA (probably without any civil rights left, kinda fascism like Fro and BS are discussing/arguing about)..
warmongers.

luvithere — April 24, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And Gold: Kitzhaber's little speech about no LTR, no CRC. Good. Fine by me. At least he finally admitted it. Do these people in OR really think they can dictate to us? Giving ultimatums?
Clean up your own mess first. Fix your schools as they are pathetic. Fix the rest first before you tell us what to do. Keep your costly, running in the red train. do they think we are here to pay their own bills?

luvithere — April 24, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 24, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.

" Kitzhaber's little speech"

Are you sure he is really Kitzhaber? He looks more like kris kristofferson to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG2kq-4dM98

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 24, 2013 at 8:09 p.m

Nice one.
Didn't Kris overindulge in the happy weed? Could that be it?

luvithere — April 24, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*What I have found about "Kal El," it is possibly Hebrew for "the Voice of God" or "All of God."*

goldenoldie — April 24, 2013 at 7:01 p.m.

*Nails - We've been set straight. Superman is NOT a Muslim. He's a Jew.*

roger — April 24, 2013 at 7:22 p.m.

What if he's both?

What if he's a Rabbinic Imam?

Netenladenhoo-Now it's sounds Bavarian. Which brings us back to Germany...

What if he's a Rabbinic Imam named Wylie? Clark Kent gone south?

netenla-netenla-netenla-de-n-hooooo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5esIZ...

(as a side note these meds are great!)

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*President George W. Bush told CNN's John King that he's confident he and Laura Bush "helped improve the human condition."*

luvithere — April 24, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.

I have to agree with Dubya luvit, George & Laura improved the human condition by a zillion percent on January 20-2009.

What that day did for humanity will go down in history as one of our nations greatest events!

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 9:25 p.m.

"I have to agree with Dubya luvit, George & Laura improved the human condition by a zillion percent on January 20-2009."

Your statement could have been true, if Obama had proved to be better in any way, but he is just more of the same.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 10:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"But I understand extraordinary events, at times, require extraordinary action."

Nail-I don't. Give the pOlice an inch, they'll take a mile. And who defines an "extraordinary event"? The pOlice as they declare a state of emergency? That declaration would be based solely on their opinion. The government can, in Wa and Or, ban the sale of alcohol, gasoline, guns, and ammunition if and when the governor declares an "emergency". In effect, the people in power, can do whatever the f**k they want to do whenever they want to-ie, Boston. I'd hope "extraordinary events", whatever those may be, are not the unquestionable criteria for pOlice and government reaction-especially unbridled reaction.

Under the false pretense of security and the order of law, we've given up much-way too much. If you need proof, get on an airplane. Feel secure knowing the guys servicing the aircraft don't have to go thru the BS you do? The folks fueling and loading your plane just kinda walk into the mix? I watched at PDX as at least 50 gallons of fuel spilled out of a wing, into a catch basin, while no one noticed. No big deal-just another day at the United gate.

mrd — April 24, 2013 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Your statement could have been true, if Obama had proved to be better in any way, but he is just more of the same.

frobert — April 24, 2013 at 10:19 p.m.

Hey, more of the same is less than nothing.

mrd — April 24, 2013 at 11:08 p.m.

There is someone standing outside your door.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift/Anyone-

I was just watching Pat Robertson on the 700 Club. It came on right after Batman Begins.

Is it me, my TV, or does Pat have some sort of fluid continuously seeping from his left eye?

I thought it was a Plasma pixel till it started dripping on his lapel.

nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 24, 2013 at 11:33 p.m.

Could it be your own brain turning to mush after watching that stuff?

(But don't ask me for recommendations - I'm not sure there is much worth turning the set on for these days. I've been resorting to weekly visits to the used DVD store - found Judgment at Nuremberg, Von Ryans Express, The Magnificent Seven, and The French Connection on my latest visit. I'm not calling any of those great movies - rather, it seems to me that the standard flicks from "back then" were far superior to most of what's out there today.)

(Caveat #2 - Having attempted the cultural high ground, I must also reveal that "back in the day" I had no problem with finding stuff like F Troop highly entertaining. So - Maybe "our stuff" wasn't any better - Just more familiar. Whatever. More coffee required.)

roger — April 25, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Isn't it *his* right eye on *your* left?

The thing was really bad a week ago; blood red and weeping. He was explaining what was wrong/happened while I was walking past the TV, but I didn't stop to catch what he was saying.

It was definitely better yesterday.

I love the portion of the show where he answers email questions. Often, I'll take a break from chores and sit to listen. What a hoot!

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 5:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Von Ryan's Express a great movie. The Chairman of the Board gets after it!

---

Drift-

No, no, definitely his left. I double checked before posting. At first I keyboarded right, then switched left. I do watch a little bit once in awhile. Enough to know the lady reading his mail is a gas! I wonder what she really thinks of ol' Pat? She's a great straight man, trapped in a beautiful bod!

She's Pat's Ed McMahon.

The great Carnac lives!

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys want a good laugh, watch MSNBC'S run up to the Dubya library opening! :))

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal



"Oregon has no clue where to get the approx $750 mil needed to pay off their $450 mil bonds;"

I wonder why no one has pursued the recipients of the huge profits to be made from buying these bonds-with virtually no risk. As always, follow the money. Once opponents of CRC see who they're really up against, they'd probably throw in the towel. If the big boys want a bridge, they'll get it. It's really no more than Americorp after taxpayer's money, and I have no doubts they'll get it.

mrd — April 25, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Michele looks absolutely stunning!

Regarding the Bush opening...:)

When the MC was introducing politico's in attendance, after Rick Perry was announced, Barbara Bush leaned over to Obama and said something that cracked Obama up! Big time!

Probably something like, "I still can't believe that ignorant @#$% is the Governor of Texas!".

..

Great vid of our 5 living Presidents & wives.

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


golide @ 6;56 PM: I took a 2 hour walk yesterday on the Frenchman's Bar/Vancouver Lake trail and was reminded, by the beauty and peace around me, that Clark County has a lot to lose, culturally and environmentally, by the CRC project. It is a huge unknown, a threatening question mark and I see this fight getting more fierce by the month.

I love this county. I love living amongst people who have a "live and let live" attitude (at least in my historic neighborhood) and who aren't falling all over each other trying to impress with their hipness. What you see is what you get in Clark County, for sure.
_______________

roger: I cringed at Joe Biden's remarks yesterday, too. Let's let justice run its course (if it is possible in this high profile case). What some love about Joe, though, is his inability to self-edit. Some folks want to see some anger from our leaders. I can see how some are comforted by it.

_______________

mrd: I love your pOlice spelling convention and have been cheering your opinion on the risks of law enforcement over-reach. I would guess that a lot of us were in college during the late 60's and early 70's and this may explain our skepticism. My husband, a Berkeley graduate, was deep in the Free Speech movement. We just can't help ourselves. There was some home-grown terrorism during that time, too, which was horrific and abhorrent. Most of us were content for the nonviolent methods, thankfully. But I think this background growing up has produced some hard-nosed senior citizens who aren't easy to spoon-feed bullsh*t.

Just look at the power of the people in this CRC debate: they are hobbling it.

One of my classmates at Indiana U, Angela DeAngelis, left us all behind in the Theatre program one day and never returned. Her husband did not even know where she went. The next we heard of her, she was holed up in that house occupied by the SLA, after having helped kidnap Patty Hearst, and perished in the firefight that ensued. The FBI swarmed our rural campus, gathered up all her classmates and friends one-by-one, and questioned us. They were much more polite and restrained then, I think, and did not haul anyone in for questioning, but did that on-site, on our familiar turf.

The radicalization of youth sure isn't new. I just think the horror of 9/11 has given the government another license to erode individual rights for the illusion of greater public safety.
We just should not be so ready to hand them over.

Some of us won't.

manthou — April 25, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: It is painful to watch anything related to this library opening. Hats off to you for your updates. They soften the blow for me.

Don't even get me started.

A journalist wrote that this library is a prostitution of 9/11. Maybe if the visitors are distracted by those exhibits, they won't focus of the war crimes perpetuated by this administration?

manthou — April 25, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- A last comment for awhile before yard work. This is basically a roast of Bush! Clinton's speech in particular. But Dubya seems oblivious and is eating it up!

The elder bush stood up with help, and I'm sure some of his facial expressions will go viral! (sick, I know, but too funny!)

Lotsa pomp & circumstance for sure. I wonder if Republicans will gripe about the $$$ spent?

I remember the Patty Hearst kidnapping! Wow, talk about hitting close to home.

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Pat's on now. If you look closely you can see the inside portion of his right eye is still a tad red.

I went to the 700 Club site and tried to find past shows where it was really screwed up. It appears to have been "brushed out." Heh.

About that pOlice home invasion: they didn't shoot the dog! Yay!

Time to tend to the garden...

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


errr. one more comment. I had to hear what 43 had to say.

Nothing.

He wept at the end.

As we all have Dubya, as we all have..

---

*If you look closely you can see the inside portion of his right eye is still a tad red.*

It was his left! The one that droops. Last night he had a measure of less than clear fluid glazing his blazer button hole!

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

Revenue bonds (which is what a tolling bond is) are paid from the project itself - as opposed to the municipal bond, which has something of value (e.g. property) backing the payment. Revenue bonds are riskier, and therefore have a higher payoff to make them attractive to investors. When it comes to tolling bonds, if the tolling process doesn't raise enough, the investor loses money.

As for just who the investors who might buy these bonds may be, and the power behind their money - I suspect you're right. My guess is that the only way these bonds will get sold is if both states agree to a provision saying we'll toll the I205 bridge to raise the money if the I5 tolls aren't sufficient. This is why WSDOT is pushing for tolling the I90 bridge in Seattle - the traffic diversion from SR520 has not dropped as they predicted it would. This has necessitated raising tolls repeatedly on SR520, and they're reaching that break point where even more will change their route. With the CRC they'll be tolling the old I5 bridges starting 2015 (current plan), and by the time the new bridges are open for business they should have a pretty good idea how many have moved to I205 and won't be returning. Or another probability is that when we have the formal tolling agreement drawn up between the two states (I believe that's planned for sometime later this fiscal year), we'll learn that I205 will be tolled at that time. And by then, with funding agreements in place, it'll be too late for all those people planning on avoiding tolls by using the I205 to get on board and help stop this project.

roger — April 25, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


NPR's Morning Edition has a segment on the GWB Library. Laura Bush was a huge driving factor in the design, according to the interview with her. She also said it was set up where you have your own individual headphones and screen, are given 4 scenarios each of 9/11, Iraq War, Katrina storm response, and tanking the the economy. Each contain the information Bush was given as Commander in Chief, and then the listener is can select one of the four choices to compare w/ the actual response by Bush.

Not to fault such a individualized method of 'leading horses to water' as a way of confirming Bush's wise leadership, but I'd be curious as to who selected the 3 response choices that were the untrue ones, and exactly how they were worded.

jacjak — April 25, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — April 25, 2013 at 10:01 a.m

So you are saying that they will eliminate the law banning tolling on I-205? How can they just do that?

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — April 25, 2013 at 10:16 a.m

They would need some creative help with that. Maybe Glen Beck lent a helping hand.

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On this pOlice/home invasion thing. Assuming our politicians and po po's aren't conspiring in a massive plot to take over our country, (what would they do with it, we're it!:) Here's a scenario. Not a likely one, but very well could happen.

Intel tells us a live nuke is on US soil, and housed somewhere within a three block radius, in a North Portland neighborhood. Homeland Security/NSA/FBI sources all correlate (to include eyes on but lost track) and all info is beyond reproach. Sewer system, old PTown tunnels, airspace, all bases covered. No question terrorists have real time possession of a nuclear device, in a residential area, with plans to detonate at any time.

With sequestration furloughing federal Judges, a warrant and due process can be set in motion, yet time restraints dictate our lovely Vancouver isolation experience will soon be part of a PTown melting pot. Literally!

Intel has narrowed the bomb's location to less than ten probable homes, based on profiling Middle East Muslims/aquaintences residing in the area as well as sheeple Mosque attendance. (yes, another erosion of rights) but additional homes to determine the scope of the problem might need to be targeted, searched, to include possibles carrying information on their person leading to a cavity non-invasive body search.

Knowing millions will die, millions born to birth defects, upsetting the ecological balance, creating a portion of the west coast & more which would be uninhabitable for some time, the winds blowing southwest/southeast, dogs and cats living together...

How should we go about looking for this device?

And if we allow unwarranted search & seizure, then it becomes a numbers game. Strictly.

How many will the bomb kill before we consider doing this?

What if the bomb was capable of blowing up the entire world, wiping humanity from existence?

Should we authorize improper search and seizure?

What if a bomb just killed and horribly injured 147 of our citizens in a major US city and intel dictated more attacks were on the way.

Did we do the right thing?

It's all about numbers.

And it's a great conversation for the American people to have.

I think we tend to think of human rights on a linear scale, rather that a nuanced prism of possibilities. Just my opinion and I certainly don't have the answers.

Peace

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and where's holyC today?

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe he just shed a tear, nail.

Man, I catch a portion of the show daily. I'm tellin' ya, his right looked like he got poked with a sharp stick.

I'd make a joke about what else he might have leaking, but that would be sick. Heh.

As far as that confounded bridge: I think it's ludicrous the Feds would use coercion in assisting to fund the project. Ya, I suppose that's a bit naive, now that I think on it. Stuff like 55 mph speed limits and drug busts come to mind.

Still, it's a danged interstate highway. Why can't the states turn the tables? I mean, tell the Federal Highway Department to build the thing or watch it rot and a major highway shutdown one state away from the Canadian border?

Speaking of poo, I'm off to pick up after the dog...

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger-thanks for the bond info.

BTW, do you know the length of the payments? How long does one hold the bonds to get a 66% return?

mrd — April 25, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.

Cut the power in the area, drive up and down the streets with a radiation sensor and look for hot spots with a FLIR on a helo.

But that's just me.

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- Maybe he just got finished shedding tears for our souls, which is cool by me, and couldn't stop the bleeding. I started paying attention while he was in the middle of something. The show is a little addicting! I'm going to have to give it a look once in awhile.

Either way, the dude can't see straight!

---

hawkeye- Lead enclosure and precautionary run up to avoid detection. Let's assume these guys are good/smart. Maybe they spent the last four or five years shipping parts for the device via containers filled with other similar merchandise, taking advantage of tight federal port funding compliments of the House.

Let's say they dispersed bits of plutonium already to throw a wrench in your FLIR w/helo. :)

Easy to think we would need boots on the ground at this moment.

Would we dare violate the privacy of a few to save countless lives?

Or do we go down with the ship gurgling bits of the constitution Max Cady style.

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Intel tells us (for some value of "us") a "dirty bomb" is the best any single individual can manage.

Whacked out crazy dude aint gonna send up the mushroom cloud.
Not even if he's the totalitarian dictator of some backwater country. So I've read, anyway.

Here's a scenario for you:
Let's say I'm a disabled individual minding my own business in my own home. The coppers are coming down the street doing about the same thing we saw in that vid from Watertown.

I decide I want no part of it and don't answer my door.
And they come in anyway.
I know (due to the disability) if they throw me to the ground it will cause me irreperable harm. So I put dents in bullet resistant vests.

And then they kill me.

Who was in the wrong?

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 1:10 p.m

First off, if they are so smart what are they doing with a bomb? Everybody knows that if you really want to hurt somebody you do it with money. Or the lack of.

Anyway, even though the port money is tight, they still "read" every container coming in.

Drift, I think both are at fault.

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

The bonds can be issued for different lengths of time. 35 years seems to be an average for these projects. The WA House was looking at 45 years for some of their plans. And the WA Senate was trying to push something through limiting all bonds to 15 years. As to how long to attain a 66% payout - No idea. Too many unknowns, and I haven't researched how these bonds work in enough depth to guess.

roger — April 25, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye -

Federal law used to require tolling used to be for that section of the interstate applied to - no longer. There were 3 exceptions (I forget the locations). PA was wanting to toll I80 to help build another highway that fed into it. In 2008 this was a NoGo. But it seems somewhere in late 2011 the rules got changed, and PA was revisiting this. And then last year was when WSDOT started talking about tolling the I90 bridge for SR520.

The WA State law was one then Rep Ann Rivers and a couple of others got put into law last year as part of a compromise to get the votes to pass our budget. You can bet that one goes away if the Dems retake control of the Senate.

roger — April 25, 2013 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The radicalization of youth sure isn't new. I just think the horror of 9/11 has given the government another license to erode individual rights for the illusion of greater public safety. We just should not be so ready to hand them over."

damn tootin'!

I worry that media bombardment about such events as 9/11 & Boston will create enough hysteria to convince enough people to surrender their rights, never to return. If you kinda think about the trajectory of the police state, it's scary where it's heading. As far an "intel" goes, ol' Pat the weather guy is much more reliable, and, well, err sorry Pat, I'm not sure your batting average is HOF stuff.

I find it ironic folks will fight like hell to preserve the right to carry guns, but are so ho-hum on their right to be protected from illegal searches and seizures. I guess the rationale is it's OK as long as it's the other guy, not me.The drunks and druggies lost their rights long ago, I don't know if the police are still doing the roadblock thing or not-mighta got tossed on that one.

With many attempts to pass laws prohibiting capturing on videos the police at work-this, to me, is scary chit. And I don't wear a tinfoil hat.

Nail's doomsday scenario is exactly what the state wants to have us fear and believe only they can protect us. Oh, and BTW NAil, I did look out my door and there were no storm troopers, however, there was a drone so I flipped it off. Next time, maybe I'll see the troopers.

mrd — April 25, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Who was in the wrong?*

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 1:39 p.m.

No one?

..

Biological crap also a major WMD. Something weaponized or spread through contact...

..

*Anyway, even though the port money is tight, they still "read" every container coming in.*

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 1:51 p.m.

Perhaps, but what fraction do they inspect?

I guess my point is, if we could stop an event that would shake us/the world to it's core and millions of people to go with it, of course we'd beat down a few doors to prevent it.

But a major terrorist attack in Boston Mass doesn't warrant it? (pun intended)

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to a certainty, just asking. Although I tend to lean in favor of kicking a few doors down as opposed to millions dying.

Then it's a numbers game.

And not knowing if future attacks were imminent, the scope, understanding what we did know...I'll have to read some more about Boston, as I haven't paid much attention lately. Because I have to believe there are more than a few thankful citizens lauding their first responders efforts.

When you really think about it. I think most would knock on a few doors. Doesn't make it right, but sure spares a lot of innocents.

What good are ideals, if no one is alive to enact them?

Just my opinion.

amen

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nail's doomsday scenario is exactly what the state wants to have us fear and believe only they can protect us.*

No mrd, my scenario involves a real weapon.

We can have another scenario with the government conspiracy thing, but mine involved real events as a scenario.

And again, what would you have done differently in Boston?

(he went out for dinner but he's back, just on the other side, ready to....

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — April 25, 2013 at 1:39 p.m.

Who is wrong? The Fourth Amendment answers that for us.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Couple that with John Bad Elk v. U.S. which reaffirms the right of innocent citizens to respond to deadly force from police with deadly force, if they do not have a warrant.

frobert — April 25, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*unreasonable* searches...

Hmmm..

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A lot of noise going through the late afternoon news about there being proof coming from Israel that Syria is using chemical weapons against their insurgents. Pres Obama had made that a "line in the sand" the gov't there better not cross.

Vlad Putin has also offered a pretty tactful "I told you so" and is suggesting the US and Russia need to work together to stop these terrorist attacks. (He seems to believe the older brother was tied in with the Chechen separatist movement.)

You know, old Ron Paul saying get out of the world's problems and bring all our troops back home is sounding better every day. Or even better, let's resurrect Warren Harding and Henry Cabot Lodge and reinstate an isolationist policy.

roger — April 25, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sound about right?

**Understanding Search and Seizure Law**

*Learn when the government can invade your privacy to hunt for evidence of a crime.*

The search and seizure provisions of the Fourth Amendment are all about privacy. To honor this freedom, the Fourth Amendment protects against "unreasonable" searches and seizures by state or federal law enforcement authorities.

The flip side is that the Fourth Amendment does permit searches and seizures that are considered reasonable. In practice, t*his means that the police may override your privacy concerns and conduct a search of you, your home, barn, car, boat, office, personal or business documents, bank account records, trash barrel, or whatever, if:*

the police have probable cause to believe they can find evidence that you committed a crime, and a judge issues a search warrant, *or the particular circumstances justify the search without a warrant first being issued.*

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/search-seizure-criminal-law-30183.html

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 6:40 p.m.

House to house searches by definition lack probable cause. All precedent to date require location specific exigent circumstances. The Watertown searches have broken new ground in crushing the fourth amendment.

frobert — April 25, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 25, 2013 at 7:29 p.m.

Uh, is this covered under FR#1? Or do you have proof of your statement?

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Under exigent circumstances a warrant isn't required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_...

(Yes, it's Wiki - So sue me).

Now draw that thin line.

If I know a mass murder is located in one of one hundred houses, and they are about to kill again, can I kick in the door of each and every?

And should I decide to do so, and get killed by a citizen in the citizen's living room, does said citizen have an affimative defense in the homicide?

What if it's 1,000 houses?
What of 10,000?
What of a whole country?

Drift — April 25, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Lord! I ventured across the bridge tonight to dine with a friend in NW PDX. I was stuck in traffic going and it was thick as river mud even at 7:45 pm tonight. I exited at Jantzen Beach to browse the new Target. By 8:30, traffic was flowing again.

Is this what you commuters have to put up with daily? Or was this an off day?

Why wouldn't light rail help the commute time, for those who choose to use it?

manthou — April 25, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — April 25, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.

Exigent circumstances is house specific, never has the Supreme Court upheld it unless the police see a fleeing suspect entering a specific house or heard screams from a specific house. The Watertown searches is new territory. I don't know how the Court would rule in this specific case because there is no precedent. As far as shooting the police officer, I would suggest you read Bad Elk v United States.

frobert — April 25, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 25, 2013 at 9:20 p.m

Again, FR#1

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-I'm with you on this search thing-I really don't know. But to see storm troopers in the streets and house to house illegal searches scares the bejesus out of me. I have no idea what the answer is, but the apparent answer sucks. Has it come to that? I hope not. Perhaps that's why the US couldn't crack the top ten in how "free" we are in an international rating.

mrd — April 25, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.

You're becoming a bad joke.

Time for the block user button.

frobert — April 25, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 25, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.

I don't know who's top ten "free" list you are reading but since the EU came out that freedom of speech is not a fundamental right, I have a hard time believing we are not at the top of the list.

frobert — April 25, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 25, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.

I really get where you are coming from. It would seem as though warrantless searches are permissible/legal in many situations, and a search for WMD would be one of them. I think. It's all about the numbers.

No easy answers, but I'm glad exceptions/provisions in the law are decided by greater more scholarly minds than ours. I'm still looking for one of my remotes.

Unfortunately personal freedoms are dictated by times and technology to some degree

Just ask the over 100,000 dead innocent Iraqi citizens and their families.

(I had to bring it back to Bush somehow;) Damn him. And that guy with the cowboy hat ta boot.)

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — April 25, 2013 at 9:48 p.m.

FR#2? Or amending FR#1. You can't have it both ways.

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqROBT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Hpgy...

The Russian one is amazing. It's like Boris meets the black hole. Disturbingly soothing. If I watch it again I might drown....somebody go for help!

nailingit — April 25, 2013 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well here's a new twist to the "crime train".

Bad guys are targeting people on the Max and on buses, grabbing phones and dashing out the open doors at stops. They are calling it "Apple picking". Cute, huh?

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Thieves-target-unsuspecting-transit-riders-snatch-their-phones-204802201.html

Hey Fro, see how that works? Bring up a subject and back it up with a link. That would be HR#1

hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 11:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

I'm not sure how to react to that KATU video. Part of me wants to send the link to Lew Waters and friends - they like to focus on the "crime rail" aspect of the CRC LRT discussion. But I'm also sitting back wondering how people can be so clueless. Like the one guy says - those are valuable little toys you're sitting there playing with - you're asking to become a victim.

roger — April 26, 2013 at 5:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

That's the norm for traffic congestion all over, not just the I5 around the bridge. It lasts longer on the I5 than the I205 up near the river mainly because cutting across I84 puts you in the same mess with all the east bound Oregonians.

If not too nosy, was that dining out? I'm hard pressed to think of anywhere worth making that drive to in NW Portland. The fancy steakhouse on the island has mediocre food at high prices. Jubitz has good food if you like truckstop fare, but it can be pretty crowded. There was a place on Marine Drive near 32nd Ave (? - whatever that road back to Columbia Blvd is), but I've been told they've become more a bar these days.

roger — April 26, 2013 at 5:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In my travels around the county I still find that a lot of Oregon plates parked in driveways. I have an occasion to visit a few large apartment complexes also. Last night, just for fun, I counted Oregon plates with my grand kids. We counted over thirty of them. So after I dropped them off I drove through one of the big ones by my place. I found over forty of them.

My point is this. If so many are visiting here are they just spending the night or what?? Come on man!!! That's over seventy. You can't tell me ALL of them are just visiting.

When waiting in line at some stores around here I find that a lot of visitors are from Oregon. Same thing. It's amazing that so many just visit here, isn't it?

JohnCasey — April 26, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, John, and just for grins find a bus stop close to an elementary school - bet you'll see a car or two with OR plates sitting there. That practice started when the police began watching for OR plated cars picking the kids up from school.

It's one of the reasons I'm a bit cynical about businesses crying they'll lose business if we get rid of the sales tax exemption.

roger — April 26, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**The Ron Paul Institute: Be Afraid, Very Afraid**

*The former presidential contender is back, this time as head of a new ‘institute’ for ‘peace’ comprised of anti-Semites, 9/11 truthers, and dictator lovers. James Kirchick reports.*

Next on the list of Paul Institute board members are the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Most prominent among them is Judge Andrew Napolitano, a legal analyst for Fox News who has said that “It’s hard for me to believe that [7 World Trade Center] came down by itself” and that the 9/11 attacks “couldn’t possibly have been done the way the government told us.”

He is joined by Eric Margolis, who, despite an apparent lack of a Ph.D. or appointment at an institution of higher learning, is listed as a member of the organization’s “academic board.” Margolis says that “conclusive proof still lacks” connecting Osama bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks and has speculated that the events could have been “a plot by America’s far right or by Israel or a giant cover-up.”

Southwestern Law School professor Butler Shaffer, in an article for Rockwell’s site titled, “9/11 Was a Conspiracy,” asks, “In light of the lies, forgeries, cover-ups, and other deceptions leading to a ‘war’ in Iraq, how can any intellectually honest person categorically deny the possibility of the involvement of American political interests in 9/11?”

And what would an enterprise featuring Ron Paul be without a little Civil War revisionism? For that, there’s Walter Block, an anarcho-capitalist professor of economics and fellow at the Mises Institute. Like many in Rockwell’s neo-Confederate circle, Block believes that the wrong side won the “war against Southern succession” and blames most of America’s current problems on “the monster Lincoln.”

..

Also on Paul’s board are prominent former government officials who claim that American Jews constitute a “fifth column” aimed at subverting American foreign policy in the interests of Israel. Michael Scheuer, a former CIA intelligence officer, has used this precise phrase, alleging that a long list of individuals, organizations, and publications are “intent on involving 300 million Americans in other people’s religious wars.”

Read more @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/25/the-ron-paul-institute-be-afraid-very-afraid.html

nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Clinton joked that the dedication of the George W. Bush Presidential Center was "the latest, grandest example of the eternal struggle of former presidents to rewrite history."*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWlcT...

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/Politics-on-hold-at-the-dedication-of-Bush-library-4461980.php#ixzz2Ra8SyJNW

nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not generally a big fan of country music, but they lost one of their greats today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R2F9f...

frobert — April 26, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well I see that Lew is railing against the proposed elimination of Oregonians getting their stuff sales tax free in Washington.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ap...

As far as I'm concerned, it's about time. After all, Oregon doesn't give workers from Washington (in their state) any breaks on income tax. Also with the proposed mail in rebate at the end of the year (which most will not do), the person will have to have a verified address in Oregon and the rebate will go to that address. If you are going to cheat, it's going to take a little more work that just showing your old driver's license.

hawkeye — April 26, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Plus!!!! We won't be reminded that we are the ones getting away without paying when we go to the store when they ask "Are you an Oregon resident"? I really hate that.

Also, it should save the local stores money in paperwork they have to fill out for the exemptions.

OK, I'm done ranting for now.

hawkeye — April 26, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 25, 2013 at 11:12 p.m.

Interesting related article.

**Undercover Police Stings Target Front Lines Of Stolen iPhone Market**

SAN FRANCISCO -- On a cloudy afternoon in the Tenderloin district, a man in a hooded sweatshirt walks slowly along Market Street, stopping to engage people he encounters along the way. He offers a peek at the wares inside the backpack slung over his shoulder: Three new iPhones, each still sealed in a white box affixed with Apple’s logo. He stole these phones, he tells potential customers, before asking them to make an offer.

He walks past a check-cashing shop and a boarded-up pharmacy until he attracts an interested buyer. But before the deal is done, another man dashes out of a nearby donut shop and mumbles a warning to the would-be buyer in Spanish. He suspects the seller is a cop. Suddenly nervous, the buyer walks away.

The man in the hoodie is indeed a policeman: Officer Tom Lee is playing the role of decoy in a sting operation targeting buyers of stolen iPhones. Beneath his sweatshirt, he wears a small recording device taped to his chest. Nearby, two plainclothes officers blend into the crowd, armed with guns to protect Lee should the deal go bad. A block away, two more officers sit in an unmarked car, awaiting Lee’s signal for them to make an arrest.

Lee approaches a heavy-set man standing outside the red awning of a Carl's Jr. burger restaurant. The man wears glasses and a black pinstripe suit. He inspects the iPhone and offers $100. Lee takes the cash, hands over the phone and gives the signal. Four officers swoop in and place the man in handcuffs, notching another arrest in the intensifying cat-and-mouse game playing out here and in other major American cities between law enforcement and criminals looking to profit from the burgeoning trade in stolen mobile devices.

..

Police say stolen phones bought here are often resold overseas -- in part to avoid a domestic blacklist being established by American wireless carriers -- eventually fetching as much as $1,000 at markets scattered from Hong Kong to Rio de Janeiro. The total value of lost or stolen phones in the U.S. is about $30 billion a year, according to the mobile-security firm Lookout.

Nearly half of all robberies in San Francisco last year involved smartphones, according to police. After thieves across the Bay Area swipe iPhones or iPads, police use GPS sensors in the devices to trace them here, to the corner of Seventh and Market.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/26/police-sting-stolen-iphones_n_3138609.html

nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 9:23 a.m

Wow, that sounds like entrapment to me.

hawkeye — April 26, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — April 26, 2013 at 9:28 a.m.

It does a bit. I remember a few years ago VPD were pollinating prostitutes in one of their sting ops.

No doubt this will be a road map for them in dealing with oncoming LR concerns.

End of shift, back to the tulip festival. ;)

nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Pollinating prostitutes"?

roger — April 26, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Pollinators I tell ya, one n' all!

nailingit — April 26, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Newsroom journalists: Looks like the "Uniform correction or clarification of defamation act", ESB 5236, has finally passed after quite a rocky and controversial road.

I was hoping for its failure.

Front line staff might be worried that their editors might pressure them into making corrections too quickly. I do not like the limits on damage recovery in defamation suits.

Who testified for it? Roland Thompson, Bill Witt and Bruce EH Johnson: all advocates for publishers.

Defamation suits in this state are dead with the Anti-Slapp laws anyway.

The Seattle Times was having some trouble with its newsroom this year: major feet dragging over a correction that was definitely meritorious. They were already up in arms about the McKenna ad purchases and are in contract negotiations, too. You cannot run a newspaper without happy reporters, can you? Even loggers have it better in the employment department. Journalists this year were rated dead last in terms of best jobs to have.

Now the managing editors can say to the newsroom: "It is the law: we have 30 days to make a correction."

How did reporters let this slip by without a peep from them?

The ONLY other state with such a law? North Dakota. That speaks volumes.

manthou — April 26, 2013 at 11:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal



OK, nailingit. I get it about Alex Jones. :)))) No one still knows who hired those private paramilitary security guys from Chis Kyle's firm. Did they help much? Did the taxpayers foot the considerable bill? I certainly do not believe in a government conspiracy, but think it is interesting that they were present that day.

Press Talk: Look at my post last night late.I talked about the new WA law heading to the Gov's desk called the Uniform Defamation Act. But I also mentioned the study that placed reporting dead last in a long list of jobs. Maybe I am clairvoyant. No, I do not know the Editor of the C. :) Maybe he was up late, reading the Forum. Wish he would join in more often.

Glad he is patting his staff on the back publicly. Matt Calkins has one an award, too, I believe. Andrea Damewood and Laura McVicker are finalists in Region 10 SPJ awards, too (both left the C, mind you).

Journalism hands out more rewards than popcorn kernels at a movie concession. Good journalism deserves praise. Irresponsible journalism should be exposed, too.

Journalists are probably the ONLY professionals who do not answer to a licensing body or ethical governing board. They are supposed to police themselves. Most of the time they do. When they don't, it can be devastating for public trust and the subject who was harmed.

Can you imagine what our life would be like if lawyers guarded their own hen house?

I cannot wait for the next Washington News Council public hearing. Stay tuned.

manthou — April 27, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- *Maybe I am clairvoyant.*

You never know! I was thinking same with our conversation on the 24th. Near as I can tell Rachel did this story hours later!

Lou certainly doesn't miss any opportunity to pat the Columbian on the back. Even if forth coming awards are "likely. :)

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQm2a...

*Maybe I am clairvoyant*

manthou- And posting my current 'Brain That Wouldn't Die' avatar last night, not knowing what Press talk would be about, which led to your outward display of clairvoyancy...(please see vid)

I believe a cyclonic energy has been released through us and transmitted via the forum to project what many of us know inside.

We walk among us.

Never to be feared.

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0wRbb...

My egg a little over seasoned this morning.

Pardon my nonsense.

One of my favorite B flicks.

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My forum penitence offering...

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ap...

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The mystery of the second blast that caused the Lusitania to sink - Was this a plot to stir up public outrage and get us into WWI?

Project Blue Book - Are we hiding information that proves superior alien beings are visiting Earth on a regular basis?

And perhaps the best of our time - the Warren Report report. Who really shot JFK?

Face it - 1) We as a people don't trust our government, and 2) We like controversy.

roger — April 27, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We don't trust journalists anymore, either, roger! Gallup confirmed this recently.

Interesting topic with nailingit and now you. "They walk among us." There are a group of smart people, not crazies, who truly believe our Founding Fathers were "walk ons"; highly evolved beings who took on human form to help our young nation develop its vision.

'Course, there are some who think President Obama is a reptile/man.

manthou — April 27, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - I suspect that firm was there due to the size of the event and the inability of Boston PD to provide enough police officers to provide adequate crowd control. Security has grown into a business, possibly in reaction to cities having to bill events to provide a security presence (gotta pay that hefty overtime rate somehow!). This has grown way beyond the dumb hefty guys in the yellow T-shirts who used to work the rock concerts - we expect our hired security to have all the fancy equipment and to know what they can or cannot do to keep the crowd under control. Ex-military types are often highly trained in the skills needed, and having a SEAL background impresses the general public.

I worked for a Defense contractor when Katrina hit - We were flooded with e-mails talking about the mildly impressive salaries we could make going to NOLA to work security in support of the PD and to help stop the looting. I thought about it, but the people I was working for made it clear they'd have to terminate my contract if I took a leave of absence to do this, so... Oh well.

roger — April 27, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - I read Chariots of the Gods when released in the English edition back when in high school. Interesting stuff that raised many more questions than answered. I already had my doubts about the meaning behind the stories in the Old Testament, and the acclaim this book received let me know there were a whole lot more wondering the same thing.

Aliens as our actual gods? Perhaps. Or possibly we keep progressing to a certain point, only to have some cataclysmic event sending us back to the starting point - In a sense, we're our own gods. Whatever. I do know there has to be better answers than we get from mainstream sources for how Egyptians and Mayans with one foot still in the Stone Age could build the pyramids. And so on, around the world.

roger — April 27, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I truly do not discount many conspiracies/explanations concerning both aliens and people possessing psychic abilities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28...

Although I don't pursue them, on some level I have personal knowledge of both...

(I dig these Saturday morn discussions)

Hey roger, those were pretty much my thoughts on the high end security as well. Contracted out from the city or private Co. I imagine threat levels were up with some xtra chatter, marathon, threat assessments etc.

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqn9hZdJxY

Part 2 of the Maddow Show. (manthou, not directed to you in the least as was not the other)

This hits on Beck and others as well. The market in RW conspiracy kingdom is far reaching and quite lucrative.

What do we do when politicians start believing these guys?

nailingit — April 27, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Actually, someone predicted that these conspiracy theories publicized by Alex Jones and Glenn Beck will become an issue in the 2016 election. I think there already are politicians who believe in them.
______________

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Remember when the CIA put all that money into "remote viewing" training in the late '60s and early '70s? This was a reaction to intelligence info that the Russians were developing such telepathic skills.

Russell Targ was one expert hired to train CIA agents and his account of his experiences, as well as specific instances of success, is worth a leisure read. Fascinating stuff the government has
bankrolled over the years.

manthou — April 27, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For our video-loving friends, here is a good short clip of an interview with Russell Targ:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHyVbY...

manthou — April 27, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"**The GOP is dying as it decides to move further left."**
Lew Waters

As Lew attempts to encapsulate politics, as he usually errroneously does, more power to the dipfck.

A quote from a bagger, kinda explains the problem in DC, dirtbag politicians from both stripes, entrenched in their nonsence, bought and paid for by monied interests, continue to rule. The GOP can move anywhere it wants, it doesn't mean a damn thing. Who really runs things? Hint-it's a bunch of elected politicians that are bought and paid for. Wake up Lew, and your fellow baggers, you got sold up the river with the rest of us.

1. List item

mrd — April 27, 2013 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The middle class is still struggling, food stamps usage at an all time high, millions unable to find work and no longer qualify for unemployment and he jokes?

All we heard was how bad everything was under Bush & the Republicans and now that everything is much worse, it's a joke?"

More from a dipfck. Didchits such as this a$$clown still, even now, think all evils occurred because of policies enacted since 2010? Doesn't this idiot know-or want to admit-which bunch of dipfcks controlled Congress for the last 2 years? In his blind eyes, the baggers and their ilk are blameless. This dipfk is right up there the dumbest-totally clueless.

mrd — April 27, 2013 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — April 27, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.

You need to stop reading and trying to regurgitate propaganda, Lew is a NeoCon. Democrats are closer to the "tea party" philosophy than Lew. If you are going to use derogatory terms and try to insult an entire group, you should at least take a few minutes and try to understand what they stand for.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 5:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And you, Frobert, need to stop rewriting history. Try looking at the roster for what is really called the Neocons, their plans, and what they stand for. We are talking Cheney et al. Lew is not a neocon, he is A Tea Party follower. And he is a Republican. Their philosophy is not that of the Democrats.
Just as silly as you constantly referring to the Westboro idiots as Democrats.

luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


AMEN!

**The Blaze seeks Congressional support for Boston Marathon bombing conspiracy**

*In an email to Congress, the right wing news site asked for help pushing a debunked Saudi National conspiracy*

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/26/the_blaze_seeks_congressional_support_for_boston_marathon_bombing_conspiracy/

nailingit — April 28, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Will the Columbian erect a paywall soon? Lou B seems to predict this yesterday in his FB comments to Press Talk.

Here is an opinion by Steve Buttry that debunks the value of such paywalls to newspapers. Hope he reads it:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://stevebuttry.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/new-revenues-hold-much-greater-promise-than-paywalls/

manthou — April 28, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 6:35 a.m.

Lew supports a interventionist foreign policy and a larger more intrusive government, that is NeoCon philosophy.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 6:35 a.m

Also the "Westboro Idiots" are democrats, can you provide any credible proof that they are not, I can provide plenty that they are.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert, enough with Westboro proofs. They are nutty and that' s all.

I refer you once more to the roster of the neocons. They are Republicans. Read their manifesto of world dominion. End of story.

luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


An opinion piece in the Wash Post worth reading. The writer is a Marine (there is no ex-Marine) from Boston who fought in Afghanistan and is now a student at Georgetown.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-could-justify-fighting-in-afghanistan--until-the-boston-bombing/2013/04/26/e483321c-ad26-11e2-b6fd-ba6f5f26d70e_story.html?hpid=z2

roger — April 28, 2013 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So much for being able to use polling as a guide to what people want.

AAA just polled 1004 people to arrive at a 95% accuracy rate. They concluded over 2/3 of the people want the federal gov't to fix the roads, and they're willing to pay for it. http://newsroom.aaa.com/tag/aaa-making-america-stronger/

Meanwhile, Gallup also just polled 1008 people to arrive at a 95% accuracy rate. They concluded 2/3 of the people would vote against a law in their state to raise the gas tax by 20 cents to fund infrastructure and mass transit projects. http://www.gallup.com/poll/161990/oppose-state-gas-tax-hike-fund-repairs.aspx

I suppose this could mean we want the Feds to fix the roads - Not the states. Or it could mean we don't want our gas tax dollars funding light rail. (And yes - I will be referencing this Gallup poll in a comment on John's column in just a few minutes.)

roger — April 28, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.

I suggest that you read up on the NeoConservative movement, they are disillusioned democrats. There is very little "republican" about them. World domination is not a republican ideal, in fact just as many conflicts have been started by democrats.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So you saying Dick Cheney is a disillusioned Democrat, along with the rest of the Republicans who signed their manifesto of the new American century?
Fro, that's priceless. Thanks for the chuckles.
I am no longer discussing this. It's absurd at this point.

luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 2:11 p.m

Of course you wont discuss it further, you have provided nothing but myth, and my post wasn't even directed toward you. Standard liberal thinking, if the facts do not fit your diatribe, make up new ones.

The tea party from its founding supports smaller government, Lew has no such beliefs.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Powerful opinion from the Marine in Boston. I have heard similar thoughts from others who served.

There is a new movie by Mira Nair called, "The Reluctant Fundamentalist." It is very timely, uncannily so.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/mira-nair-tackles-complicated-india-446592http://

manthou — April 28, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Of course you wont discuss it further, you have provided nothing but myth, and my post wasn't even directed toward you. Standard liberal thinking, **if the facts do not fit your diatribe, make up new ones.**

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

***OH STOP!!!! I'M LAUGHING SO HARD !!! STOP IT!!! SOOOOO, DOES THAT MEAN YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT, FRO? ***

hawkeye — April 28, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"I love this guy. Dr. Paul is the only candidate I know of who would have signed the Constitution of the United States had he been there. I'm with him, because he seems to be the only candidate who actually believes it has as much relevance today as it did a couple of hundred years ago. I look forward to the day when we can work out the differences we have with the same revolutionary vision and enthusiasm that is our American legacy."

Arlo Guthrie

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert: The Guthrie quote: I always thought old hippies and Libertarians have much in common. :)

manthou — April 28, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — April 28, 2013 at 5:49 p.m.

It is funny how everybody seems to associate hippies with democrats, from what I remember they hated Johnson with a passion.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — April 28, 2013 at 4:58 p.m.

I was inspired by the article @ roger — April 28, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.

But cheerleaders are welcome too!

Personally I like my coffee black, my mensches classy, & my music without labels.

nailingit — April 28, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Fro - Yeah, but they loved Eugene McCarthy and William Fulbright.

roger — April 28, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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