Open forum, April 29-May 5



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Good morning fellow cellar dwellers. I was hoping someone might be able to help me out. I'm in search of a lift chair for my mother that we could possibly rent for a month while she recouperates from a recent fall which she broke her pelvis.She has a hard time getting up and down into a chair. I just started a search late last week. I appreciate any and all your help. Thank you...

vanwadreamer — April 29, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There is a medical supply place in Minnehaha (sp) on St. Johns and around 63rd, I think, they have all kinds of stuff there and I think their prices are good. You might try them. They are next to a 4X4 shop.

hawkeye — April 29, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the referral. I did call them but they only sell. I did find a place up off mill plain in the old Oxford Athletic club that does. $125 a week.. Going up there at lunch. Thanks again Sir:)

vanwadreamer — April 29, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also try Mountain View Med Supply on Mill Plain - They're in that big building behind the Shell station at Garrison and Mill. We used them when my wife broke her hip joint - very quick with insurance processing. We bought, but I'm pretty sure rental came into the conversation.

roger — April 29, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Will the CRC get passed in the state senate's special session?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — April 29, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We can always hope not Lou.Clearer heads I would hope will prevail.

timerick — April 29, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope the bridge gets passed without LRT. We can't let Oregon dictate the terms.

hawkeye — April 29, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Will the CRC get passed in the state senate's special session?**

Didn't they just approve $82M for more CRC planning in the transportation budget? If they don't allocate funding, didn't $82M just get tossed out the window?

mrd — April 29, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Odds are not in favor of the CRC funding getting passed. That is a big disappointment to me, but I am a realist: there will not be the votes. Looks like folks taking the latest Columbian poll agree. :(

manthou — April 29, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's a crap shoot.

nailingit — April 29, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**"them selfs"??**

Potential serfs?

mrd — April 29, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Senate has said No on the CRC as long as LRT is in the package. I'm holding onto hope they stay the course.

What we're not hearing a lot about is whether the legislature will fund those other projects - the two roads from Puyallup to I5 and the expressway in Spokane. Or will the Senate stick by no taxes and kill everything? Jim and friends have two weeks to buy that one Senate vote they need. And the Senate Coalition leaders have to work to hold together - if someone walks, they're dead as of that time - forget any influence next year.

roger — April 29, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd - That $82 mil is kind of a teaser - They don't get it until the USCG approves their part, and also not until the audit is conducted and the CRC is cleared. Actually, I'm thinking it's as much a "back at you" to Oregon as anything - They only "sort of" approved their $450 mil - a whole lot of hurdles need crossed (to include a bill of health from their state auditor, who believed the tolling plan is grossly insufficient last I heard) before that money is actually going to be there.

roger — April 29, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - About time we got a vote!!! Looks like Editor Lou paid attention to his poll results.

roger — April 29, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I STILL say, build the bridge (Peterson design) with accommodations for LRT to be used at another time in the future, if WE decide we want it and have a reasonable plan for it's route. The current idea is the WRONG one and needs more thinking.

hawkeye — April 29, 2013 at 11:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***Why the Boston Bombers Succeeded
April 23, 2013 | 0900 GMT***

> There is a great deal of variety among
> professional terrorists, especially if
> we break them down according to the
> functions they perform within an
> organization, roles including that of
> planners, finance and logistics
> specialists, couriers, surveillance
> operatives, bombmakers, et cetera.
> There is also a great deal of variety
> within the ranks of grassroots
> operatives, although it is broken down
> more by their interaction with formal
> groups rather than their function. At
> one end of the grassroots spectrum are
> the lone wolf operatives, or phantom
> cells. These are individuals or small
> groups that become radicalized by
> jihadist ideology but that do not have
> any contact with the organization. In
> theory, the lone wolf/phantom cell
> model is very secure from an
> operational security standpoint, but
> as we've discussed, it takes a very
> disciplined and driven individual to
> be a true lone wolf or phantom cell
> leader, and consequently, we see very
> few of them.
> At the other end of the grassroots
> spectrum are individuals who have had
> close interaction with a jihadist
> group but who never actually joined
> the organization. Many of them have
> even attended militant training camps,
> but they didn't become part of the
> hierarchical group to the point of
> swearing an oath of allegiance to the
> group's leaders and taking orders from
> the organization. They are not funded
> and directed by the group

DeeLittle — April 30, 2013 at 12:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


we need more information, like how much are the pols being paid to vote for it? how high up does the graft go? olympia and salem or all the way to DC by now? does *any*body in wa care what kitzhaber does?

DeeLittle — April 30, 2013 at 12:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - I agree with Peterson; always have since pdxtech91 pointed me to his video a couple of years back. There were a couple of plans similar to Peterson's that were "studied" by the CRC and discarded because of (what I consider) a flawed premise. The primary reason for discarding another bridge (east or west) was that (supposedly) 65% or more of the traffic on the bridge exits within a couple of miles on either side, and therefore there wouldn't be enough diversion to make this an effective alternative. Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but if I'm one of that 65%, I don't like the route I'm using, and I've got another way to get where I'm going - I'm taking it. There was also concern for the impact of another highway through the NW P'Town neighborhoods, but that argument disappeared when they announced intentions to bring a lawsuit against the CRC for any expansion plans.

The CRC had a primary mission - imposed by Metro and supported in Olympia - of getting us out of cars and onto public transportation. Because of the screwed up routing of everything going through Portland city center instead of around it, this pretty much necessitated making LRT their priority for transit. All very nice, but useless for the majority of us who cross the river.

roger — April 30, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I still go back to the fact that round trips to Portland from Vancouver and back eat up so much time sitting in traffic. AND that sitting extends way beyond the bridge, I agree.

I take LR Yellow now every time I need to go to the Rose Quarter. I still have to fight the bridge to get to a station.

Someone on the FB side who claimed to have worked for the city of Portland for years made a comment last week that got my attention. Did you see it? I will look for it. He alleged that the Masters of the PDX Universe were invested in keeping Vantucky the backwoods burb it is and cited some very derogatory quotes. They felt that keeping travel horrific would discourage top businesses from settling in Vancouver.

I do know that people with money I know claim they would never live in Vancouver because of this commute issue. They complain about airport noise, train noise and lack of high end housing downtown. So they contribute to communities and pay taxes south and hold their noses when they drive through here on their way to the Emerald City.

I like Vancouver's small town feel and it is not a negative for me and my family. But we were fortunate enough to work here, too. I had no problem finding a comparable job 2 miles from my home for the last six years of my career. If we could all have that flexibility, we could keep residents in town and reduce traffic that way. That is MY preference. Are you listening David Madore?

Anyway, I guess the convenience of LR for Rose Garden trips is not compelling enough for the entire region to support it. I truly find that commute onerous and limiting, however, and still am hoping to convince my old man to find a smaller community in Washington County, perhaps, that allows greater access to Portland without the commute hassles. He's a stubborn guy, though, and my work is cut out for me. :)

Lou B: we appreciate your stopping by. Do so more often. We won't bite your head off. Many news media outlets are discouraging staff/reader interactions online, though, and have fired staff for doing so. :( The reader is not the precious client in media: advertisers are.

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I found the comment by Karl McDade in response to John Laird's Sunday column. Roger, I think you replied to it. Such disdain, if this is true, from the City of PDX:

Karl Mcdade · Top Commenter · Princeton University

John- I worked for the city of Portland for 35 yrs. I remember the movers and shakers talking about you guys in Vantuckey and laughing at how they were going to make sure your city would never be a competitor for new business. They said there are hayseeds over there who will do anything to be in with progressive Portlanders. They said we have two problems. Tri-met is going broke and we need a new income source to keep it running for a few more yrs thel we can retire before it goes belly up. And we need a way to make it so expensive to live and work in Vancouver that no one will want to move there or move their business there. They came up with a great idea. We will finance a mayoral candidate who will lie to the voters about tolling the bridge. We will wine and dine the small town rubes at the Columbian and make them feel like important progressives. We will suck 10's of millions out of Clark county to finance the Max line. The bridge tolls will reduce the value of Vancouver homes by 20% and the property taxes to finance the max line will make Clark county uncompetitive with Portland in seeking new business. We can even use their tax dollars to re site upriver Vancouver businesses to our side of the river. Thank God for the hayseeds at the Columbian.

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Still think the government will search your home with care if you are an innocent "suspect?"

The falsely-accused ricin suspect's home is no longer inhabitable, according to his attorney. Why do I believe the facts stated here are true? More than a hunch. Read on:

[link text][1]


manthou — April 30, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to purposely break into our all important never ceasing discussions concerning Vantucky's transportational needs, but to those who were concerned about a run up to war in Syria, we're getting a breath of fresh air.

Presidential News Conference happening now. Glad to hear Obama isn't rushing in with guns blazing.

Carry on. :)

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Think that's the same Karl Mcdade, retired police sgt. that seems to have an ax to grind about portland, and national, politics, based on posts he's made on other sites about Portland, the Mayor there, the Oregonian, etc. Not saying what he said is inaccurate, but it is heresay.

jacjak — April 30, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: Good point. All opinion is biased. That is what makes it opinion.

I gotta say: this CRC fight is exhausting and I need to find something else upon which to focus. I have great respect for people who have the stamina and tenacity to keep this conflict alive.

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You are right manthou.We can thank people like Roger and Matt Brizlawn from Briz Guitar and Loan.They kept their voices loud and presented good facts.Also Goldy.I am not sure but is the Peterson design tall enough to satisfy the Coast Guard?

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 30, 2013 at 8:05 a.m

If he was working for the "last" Mayor in P-town, I can understand why he would have an axe to grind. I don't even live there (anymore) and I was embarrassed for them. Hopefully Charlie Hales will try to straighten the city out.

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.

Therein lies the problem, doesn't it?

Who knows what the Coast Guard requirements ARE? They haven't made their wishes known yet, have they? Mr. Peterson is a professional bridge builder, so I'm sure whatever the Coast Guard requires, he can adapt to it.

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I am glad the President is not rushing into Syria. Egads.

Stephanie Rice: good sleuthing on the Craig's List anonymous ad! The use of the word "steward" and "biased media" smacks of some folks who already hold office in Clark County and their supporters. Keep digging, please, and get to the bottom of the identity. Why would they try to keep themselves secret? Maybe if their participation would be considered a conflict of interest? Or if their name is highly polarizing? Or is associated with other attempts to obfuscate?

[link text][1]


manthou — April 30, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.

That link is gone. What was the story?

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk: Broken link, I guess. Let's try this:

[link text][1]


manthou — April 30, 2013 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Great, thanks. The person or persons posting on Craigs List do seem to have some resemblance to someone "high" up in our County. You know, someone with money that wants to control EVERYTHING!

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye I read the ad on Craigs list.Lets you, I,Roger and Golden throw our names in the hat.Mayby even Drift.We can't do any worse than what we got now.

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know, Tim. I've been kicked off the FB side, do you think I could make comments if I was running? LOL

Don't you have to be a Vancouver resident to run?

I'm not sure I would qualify for funds from "whoever" is putting them up.

I'm surprised you aren't running, though.

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: The spelling and grammar are impeccable, which is a good sign, at least. Someone educated enough to self-edit in an intelligent manner. That eliminates a whole lotta familiar faces.

It is like a Citizen United PAC in a way. You never really get to know who is bankrolling it, but I can tell you this: it sure ain't pay-my-taxes-late Mielke or Steve Stuart.

Who else has the money to support candidates? Hmmmm. Let's see. Who has done this in the past?

The language sounds like our favorite commish: serving others with "joy." How grandiose and condescending. Excuse me while I barf.....

Hey, timerick: Go for it. You are a downtown businessman with a lot of passion about the future here. At lease you will find out what PAC will give you money to run. :)

There are a lot of people who have noticed that no one has come forward to run against the mayor, not least of which is hizzoner himself. He has been posting fairly boldly here.

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope - I can't either. I'm in unincorproated Orchards (and hoping we stay this way). Besides, I'd end up getting censured (or gaveled down, as I believe is their practice) - there's a certain smug character named Timmy that just rubs me the wrong way (and that's more than just his CRC related shenanigans).

I suppose I couldn't get that funding either. Between my "aberrant" religious views and my having called his rah rah girl an idiot once or twice, I suspect I'm already on the NoGo list (if we're correct in IDing the anonymous poster, that is).

Manthou - Hizzoner????

roger — April 30, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye I think I have stepped on to many toes.They at best just tolerate me.

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 1:09 p.m

Thanks for the laughs (excuse me while I barf) classic stuff!

I get the feeling we might see a few of DM's friends throwing their hats in the ring. Could be Jojo or crazy Debbie. I'd love to see either of them in a debate.

I'm like you, Roger, out in north County, not in any city.

hawkeye — April 30, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actualy Roger there are several wealthy people that are pretty quiet about what they do.But believe me they have pumped a lot of money into the CRC opposition.I'm not saying that a certain commish is not behind it.But I don't think that Craigs List is his style.Manthou I think I'm to old to go to war with these young people.I would rather just be a small thorn in their side.

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, guys: The Craigslist story just got updated and better. Stephanie Rice got this reply finally:

An email query about the identity of the person or people who placed the ad yielded this response: "Hi Stephanie, Thank you for your inquiry. It's exciting that you are interested in local politics. Many great reporters have turned out to be memorable politicians (Lew Fredericks and Stephen Colbert)."

The email continued: "Hopefully you will hear the calling. Hopefully you will run for Mayor or Council. By throwing away the Selectric and picking up a copy of Winston Churchill's, The Dream, you begin the honorable journey that enlightens not only yourself, but those beneath you. It will be an honor to support and guide you to the center seat in chambers."

Oh wait, it gets better: "Simply send us your resume and a brief explanation of the term 'Ways and Means', along with a recent photo. This is a very popular job and we expect many responses. 'Don't miss out. Act fast. This is a limited time offer.'"

The author signed off with this: "(As always, follow all Craigslist rules and don't be scammed.) It's best that we meet in a public place during daylight hours."

This smacks more of a Temple Lentz satire than it does David Madore.

We've all been punked.

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou...regarding your question on April 29, 2013 at 2:36 p.m., I believe the only way the vote would pass is if someone in the Republican Caucus of the State Senate decided to step away from the majority vote. Otherwise...Senator Curtis King hinted...he'll veto anything which includes MAX.

My gut instinct is that there will be no $450 million for the current crossing project and that the "official" audit will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there's been some finagling going on with the funding spent thus well as some special-interest requests yet to be approved. Along with the audit, the USCG will stand steadfast with the 125' clearance rule.

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.

Goldy's but one voice in a crowd of many who has read the facts. I just shout a bit louder than some here on the forum....8)).

Regarding your post @12:11 pm...I wouldn't qualify. I'm like Roger in one aspect...I live outside the city limits.


I don't have any ambition to sit on the City Council roundtable (so to speak). I just expect them to listen to the people who voted them in as I do anybody who is elected to office...and I expect them to use common sense in their decisions and stop looking at pipe dreams of monetary gain for the community. Livability is the number one most important subject our elected leadership should focus on...that includes well-functioning schools producing scholars who actually get ahead in life, efficient crossings, highways, city/county roads and a transit system we can continue to afford rather than taking on loo rail which its owners are still in deep debt (still making cut backs in service), less sign holders on the street corners and more quality jobs available, efficient police/fire departments and a community that everyone could afford to live in.

Is that too much to ask of our elected leaders rather than their banking on a loo-rail bridge to a ghostly downtown and a dead end rather than concentrating on what is truly necessary to bring Clark County out of the Brink of Disaster?

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.

Have we been punked or is this truly something which people want to see a drastic change in local government...something which will improve the situation in Clark County rather than what we've had for the past...say...10-20 years???

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Although we're speaking of TriMet's Streetcar instead of MAX, this is yet another example of fixed rail systems failing the commuter and a good reminder why buses prevail:

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I think it is an Onion-type joke, based on the response that Stephanie got from her query.

Read it again (I posted it at 3:14 pm. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me this is gonna wind up in a "(Not Quite) The Daily Couve" post, with applicants named and egg on their faces. Or in the new alt weekly Vancouver Vector or WW or ??

Define "Ways and Means"? Advice to put away the Selectric and pick up that Winston Churchill book?

Dave Madore is not that funny. :)

manthou — April 30, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys,
did anybody else have trouble logging in? Right after my Sunday exchange with Frobert about Cheney being a disillusioned democrat and Fro calling me somewhat bad names, I was unable to get to login page. Had to email John Hill to see what's up. He must have done something as I am back. Thanks John! Happened on four devices here, so it was not my end.

Interesting back and forth here in past two days. Glad I am back. Felt...left out...ignored...banned.

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Lets you, I,Roger and Golden throw our names in the hat.Mayby even Drift. We can't do any worse...*

timerick — April 30, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.

I don't know who got the muddier end of the stick, Drift or me! :)

I'll try not to take it too hard timerick.

Maybe you were thinking, I'm better suited to hold higher office?

Here's a good reminder from a great one for those who would choose to run.

*...when you are in politics you are in a wasp's nest with a short shirttail, as the saying is.*

-The Chronicle of Young Satan-

~Mark Twain~

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.

*Hi guys, did anybody else have trouble logging in?*

Same here. The login wouldn't display, but with me just for a few hours. Thanks again John!

*Felt...left out...ignored...banned*

I felt kinda liberalated! :)

If Dick Cheney's a democrat, I'm switching planets again. Frobertiology run amok!

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Oregonian ran a rehash of last month's C-Tran Board meeting when they voted to go ahead with the Fourth Plain BRT and request the New Starts funding from the Feds. The measure passed 6-2 (Madore and Freeman opposed, and Ganley abstaining). Madore's opposition was because he believes the people should vote; he cited an unspecified state law. (Probably RCW 81.104.) Freeman and Steve Stuart have problems with the funding plans.

This is a project I'm in favor of. BRT can meet our limited high capacity transit needs here in Clark County much more inexpensively than LRT, it can be increased as demand increases (again for much less money), and it has the flexibility to be moved if necessary.

Still, I'm not happy with this opposition on the part of local leaders to have a vote on these projects. This issue of why RCW 81.104 is being considered not applicable to our HCT projects here is apparently in the courts now. Washington voters have made it clear - time and again - that we'll allow the legislators to fight it out over the small stuff, but we want a say on the big ticket items. Seattle had a vote on their Hwy 99 Viaduct tunnel - voter approved, even with opposition from their Mayor. And once passed, Mayor McGinn noted "The public said move ahead with the tunnel, and that's what we're going to do." We deserve the same respect down here in our C-Tran district.

roger — April 30, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"All democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the republicans and mugwumps know it. All the republicans are insane, but only thee democrats and mugwumps can perceive it. The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. When I look around me I am often troubled to see how many people are mad.

"This should move us to be charitable toward one anothers lunacies.” --- Mark Twain

Welcome back. Strange - Why would some have access problems and not others? And HolyC went quiet a couple of days ago too - I thought maybe getting jumped on hurt his feelings, but now????

roger — April 30, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, you are correct. I logged off the ipad, switched to PC, and gone it was. For a moment there I thought it was my Cheney comment, or maybe Hawk's laughter in response to that, but I think I was not the only one.

We can ALL argue again now!

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It can't be Temple Lentz; that would make her a bigger flip flopper than Davy and her ex-boss Timmy combined. I mean, just a month ago she announced she was running for Mayor. Hmmm... Perhaps a sinister plot to divert attention - maybe she plans on running for all four open positions. Would that give her enough seats to have a quorum? Then a midnight vote to suspend the other council members, and she can rule the city unimpeded. Or at least until her cat wants fed - these elected types can ignore the people, but cats are a bit more persistent (and effective) in getting what they want. March 27 entry

roger — April 30, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah...I was one of those who lost the ability to post...thought Lou was mad at us for being so opinionated (jk). Even emails weren't making it to their destination with John Hill according to an email I received from him after re-sending it two or three times.

But alas...we're back...and we've got some catchin' up to do now, don't we!!!! (nyuk, nyuk)

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've tried to stay logged in but any time I've gone away from the C's site, it automatically logged me out. Guess I haven't ever found the way to keep it logged in, lol.

Luvithere....argue??? I thought it was constructive (or maybe destructive) criticism..8)).

.. does sound a lot like a piece done by "The Onion." Hey...I know of someone who posts here on the forum who likes to quote The Onion all the time.

Nails....was *that* you???

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — April 30, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.

Holycrud, holycrapola...I thought you wanted the loo rail here in our neck of the woods!!! Whu happn'd??? Seriously, you've said it right. It's too expensive for what we'd be getting in return...oh absolutely!!!

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting discovery - Who says the basement crowd can't work together to solve a mystery? I never log off - every couple of weeks I find I have to log back in. Seems I had to do this yesterday morning.

Well, now that Nails and HolyC are back, we're sure to see our numbers of posts soar back to levels unmatched anywhere else in the Pacific Northwest. I think we agreed many months ago that this is why Editor Lou lets us keep our little playground here. And just to show he has heart, he also allows a few considered too unsavory for the thin-skinned crowd on facebook to post here.

And to take this to a serious moment, we talked briefly about Editor Lou noting they're considering charging for the online newspaper due to not enough advertising dollars coming their way. I wonder how that would affect our existence here?

roger — April 30, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes, Goldie - It looks like a couple of days off did HolyC some good. He's thinking about that project a bit more rationally now, isn't he?

roger — April 30, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

yea what happened there HC? You were so hot to trot on this whole thing. Now...reason? What's wrong?

Glad though you have thought about this for a couple days. Maybe you need more breaks from the cellar. refresh the brain, let the breeze flow through that hair.

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nails....was that you???*

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7 p.m.

Naw, I don't do Craig's List. A few years back I clicked on the wrong heading and it scared the bejesus out of me.

*Holycrud, holycrapola...I thought you wanted the loo rail here in our neck of the woods!!!*

I thought the same. Although I question the "10 billion for a mile or so".


nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Aw heck, roger...we'd be a great "freebie" for the readership. It would keep the readers going since the articles don'....well, I won't go there, lol. There's *always* something lively in our discussion...even if it is in the deep dark dungeon of the Columbian!!!

Regarding the BRT...the plan would be feasible if they'd make improvements along Fourth Plain which would include more pullouts for the buses. In the case of "fancier" buses...I see that as an expenditure they should truly reconsider. I can see using the double units during peak hours only but during regular business hours...stick to the hybrids we already have. Either way, Fourth Plain needs a lot of help...including the area from Falk westward to downtown. I've wondered why they haven't expanded Bus 4 all the way to 162nd Avenue so maybe that will be something in the works for the future.

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow after 2 emails to John, finally I can post AGAIN! Thanks John!

I see others had trouble logging in also.

Craigslist ad? When I read that I cracked up laughing. To me, it sounds like it came right off "The Daily Couve". Who knows...

How is everyone doing with all this pollen flying around? My poor dog's eyes glue shut, have to wash her face several times a day.

ELISI — April 30, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, I hope you know I was just kidding. I know what you mean about Craigslist. I check the ads for everyday items but some of those blogs...for the first time, I checked the politics blog. Dang...are we so much better than what I read!!!

Regarding that "10 billion for a mile or so..." the people who have said that, are figuring in the initial cost of the entire project plus cost overages in planning and construction as well as interest on the bonds accrued over the 20-30 years in order to repay the bonds in full (which I don't think will ever happen). Since folks like Governor Kitzhaber claim "No light rail, no bridge...." that's where the $10 billion for a mile or so mentality sets in. Actually, it would be more like $170 million per mile before interest (if they stayed within budget constraints) which is still a lot to account for, when it comes to helping current bus riders who transfer over to loo rail at Delta Park and the possible 1% increase in ridership that might occur.

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola...I believe most people want the bridge replaced. I also believe our transit service here in Vancouver is doing a pretty good job already and could include some improvements without including MAX. Now the FTA has a new "price tag" for the project but doesn't include the interchange improvements??? That's not progress. Too much rotten fish in the cooler as far as I'm concerned.

The road to success begins with staying within your means and taking those risks which don't jeopardize the livelihood of everyone around you. In my opinion, TriMet is failing the people AND themselves, and that's pretty sad.

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John I'd said in my email to you...Thanks for fixing the issues that blocked several of us from being able to post!!!


ELISI...the pollen has slowed down in our neighborhood for a bit. Still get that gritty eye feeling.

goldenoldie — April 30, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.

"Fro calling me somewhat bad names"

I most certainly did not call you "somewhat bad names" and I am very offended that you would say such a thing. Not agreeing with your "logic" is not an ad hominem fallacy.

frobert — April 30, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*And to take this to a serious moment, we talked briefly about Editor Lou noting they're considering charging for the online newspaper due to not enough advertising dollars coming their way. I wonder how that would affect our existence here?*

roger — April 30, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.

How much? I'd pay a buck two-eighty nine and not a pence more.

Is there a reason why basement dwellers and topsiders can't share the same space?

I'm still an advocate for Avatarial Equal Rights Anonymity.

I remember the discriminating FB switch was announced shortly after a soon to be County Commissioner griped a few times to high hell about anonymous posters. The guidelines were pretty loose back then.

Can we not co-exist?

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Frobie, did you not make a few uncivil remarks about liberals and their brains? You think that was not offensive? Should I not also be offended?? If, however, I was not quite correct in saying you made a few remarks about me specifically, yea, I guess I take it back.Sorry, typing too fast and glossing over.

However, you did make a few bad remarks about liberals. As I am a liberal, I took it to mean that you meant me (oooh, great English).
Quite ok,no hard feelings on my end. Hope you feel the same.

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 8 p.m.

You might want to go to last weeks forum and see who mad the comments about the liberal brain, it was not me.

frobert — April 30, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah - It seems so much like home again - the prototypical American dysfunctional family.

roger — April 30, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 28, 2013 at 2:11 p.m

Of course you wont discuss it further, you have provided nothing but myth, and my post wasn't even directed toward you. Standard liberal thinking, if the facts do not fit your diatribe, make up new ones.

The tea party from its founding supports smaller government, Lew has no such beliefs.

frobert — April 28, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

liberal thinking...myth, facts don't fit, making up new ones. That seems a bit mean. But ok, you did not talk too much about liberal brain. So I let it slide :) :)

luvithere — April 30, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is this what the Columbian fears? Some kind of unholy clash with Face Book Users?

Why can't this paper embrace anonymity and allow us to interact with topsiders?

Have we become the Gitmo of forum discussions? Get the boot from FB and kick it here? If so that's really cool. Or have we been cast aside, isolated, nothing more than a forum leper colony.

Either way, this forum is appreciated. I just wish that some day...

I have a dream....

I have a dream that one day this paper will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all avatars are created equal."

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Glad I can login again. I finally emailed John Hill at 3:00 today since I couldn't log in from home or library.

My birthday month is coming to an end tonight so I'll break away from my Lawrence Block [Matt Scudder] and Lee Child [Reacher] reading marathon.

I don't recall anyone mentioning this time and bandwidth waster but then I'm older and forgetful. The Columbian has 4393 Likes on Facebook. **Vancouver Washington Memes** has 8802 Likes. Check it out. There's something for everybody.

langenthal — April 30, 2013 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hello from HOT Las Vegas. 80 degrees at 11:30 PM! Too hot for me. Not my idea, working vacation. Be back Saturday night. Anybody need anything while I'm here (sans cash that is) I'll check in when possible, play nice.

hawkeye — May 1, 2013 at 12:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Hawk, I'll take a couple of cases of Black Velvet if you please! I don't know if Ben's operates in Los Wages but it's worth a shot. LOL

Hey everybody, Happy May Day out there. Do ya all think there will be more violence in downtown P-Town this year. Saw some video last night about last years protest. WOW. The new edict about cops using less violent methods should work though. It's a new age and the cops should be less confrontational. That is if the protesters don't get out of line.

JohnCasey — May 1, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good mornin' JohnCasey. Hopefully things won't get out of hand. The local news was saying this morning that there's some protests planned without permission but they expect the problems to be in Seattle rather than Portland. Only time will tell.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 30, 2013 at 10:10 p.m.

Don't feel so bad about being in the forum as if we're some cast offs tossed into the Gitmo of the C web. After all...we're Classic!!! Some day they'll all start realizing just what Facebook is doing...and they'll slowly file back into the Classic Zone!!!

*NOBODY* tops our discussions!!!

Could you imagine what it would be like if we all got together someplace and saw just who it was we were talking to...say at a brunch or something??? Whether we all agree or disagree with each other, I think we're a pretty gosh-darned good bunch of civic-minded individuals who only believe in what is best for our community!!! I'm not sure if on the FB side, that they'd have such a welcoming. Yeah, there would be cliques who would do well together but as a collective...not as well received as the folks in the forum.

But then again...that's just what I think.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy Beltane everyone.

frobert — May 1, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Shona Lá Bealtaine a thabhairt duit chomh maith le.

(Happy May Day to you as well.)

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

Have you gone on the Oregon State Police Sex Offender website??? Have you seen how many are listed in the neighborhoods along the Blue Line?

Besides holyc, it's not just sex offenders the people are worried about. How would you like it if you were using your cell phone or tablet to bide your time by while waiting for your next transfer...and someone snatched your possession before you could blink...and they ran off with it just seconds before the MAX doors closed?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal also have to figure in the fact that these are "convicted sex offenders." I'd bet if you compared the docket on court cases from both states, you might be surprised at what you discovered as far as the number of convictions.

Send 'em to Gresham??? They're already there, especially in the Rockwood area.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not into politics.

The last time I was at a council meeting it was in support of a lawsuit - naming the city as respondent.

Drift — May 1, 2013 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: And I would bet that you had a stake in that lawsuit. :) How did it go?

nailingit: Your comment at 10:10 PM last night was one of your best. I am not too eager to join the FB commenters, however. I like it fine in exile. :)

Glad our regulars got to log back on finally. I was wondering where y'all were.

About the myth of the crime train (monitored sex offenders have a low recidivism rate. It is the ones not yet identified that you have to really worry about and they live here already).
David Madore is quoted as saying something to the effect that, if LR comes our way, Vancouver will turn into another Detroit.

What? Could that be misconstrued as racist? Or is it boldly racist? I cannot read this guy. He is either naive or doesn't care how he comes off.

Hey: Orenco Station is finalizing its last development and will be complete after that. Holland, a Vancouver company, is completing the work. Light rail is already there. They were happy to welcome the baseball team that Clark County commissioners rejected and the stadium is nearly done and ready for games. Depending on traffic, Hillsboro is almost an hour closer to our little coast cabin-in-the-woods. Housing seems affordable. I have got to go out there to check this place out. Maybe I will ride LR. :)

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: You and I are Taureans, it seems. Another year and we're still breathing. Life is good.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Drift: And I would bet that you had a stake in that lawsuit. :) How did it go?"

The individual filing the complaint had done so pro se. Part way in he realized he was over his head - having left himself open to a counter claim - therefore he withdrew before losing his shirt.

He told me it was a very difficult decision. I can empathize.

Drift — May 1, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, it is my opinion that Hillsboro is much better suited for minor-league baseball rather than the crammed in space the commissioners rejected prior to November's election. Yes, they have light rail...and they also have open space for expansion and have other venues such as the International Air Show.

(sarcasm intended in the following statement)

They also have a lot more space between the Delta Park LR station and the Orenco Station which includes The Hoyt Arboretum, the Oregon Zoo, Rose Quarter, The Schnitz, Oregon Art Museum and a host of other areas of interest along the route.

Between Delta Park and Fort Vancouver Way, we have the Expo Center, a disheveled shopping mall littered with sandwich counters and video lottery machines which attract the less desirable criminal aspect, a burned out hotel in the process of finishing up demolition, Esther Short Park and a new library, empty shops and parking issues.

Gee which one sounds more attracting???

So maybe someone...ANYONE...could reiterate the positives of the convenience of loo rail into downtown Vancouver again...even if we'd kept the baseball team here. I seem to have lost focus on the positive attributes of bringing folks from Portland into our city via loo rail, especially at the expense to the taxpayers and commuters.

My opinion...I like Clark County the way it is. It's downtown that needs the help and loo rail isn't the answer.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I like Vancouver and Clark County, too. I like the changes I have seen in the past 10 years, though. I worry that it will all come to a screeching halt if the bridge and LR are not funded by the legislature. Which is why I would want to look elsewhere to live. Clark County can become a Del Webb-like community of car cultured senior citizens, which is fine for some, I guess. I prefer a little youth mixed in for diversity. And I just don't think young people and new business are attracted to inertia.

Bottom line: We all are worried about what the future will look like with or without this project. There is a ton of anxiety floating around. Uncertainty, too.

Some are comforted by no changes. Some are invigorated by change. Some don't care. For me, personally, I want to invest in a community that invests in development and infrastructure. I am willing to pay for it.

Clark County will survive with or without the likes of little ol' me. I just want to spend the final third of my very blessed life in a place that is alive and dynamic. I worry that Vancouver will die a little death without the new bridge and light rail.

I admit i may be wrong. I support folks' right to protest the CRC and stop it in its tracks, perhaps. I just don't have to stick around for the aftermath. Freedom is a fantastic thing.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc,I think you are about half right.I see light rail,the way it is designed,to move people through but not into.The city has not helped either.Raising the rent on the Slocum house was but one example.Sometimes change is good and needed.I fought against the Mill Plain extention way back when.I was afraid it would hurt business.I was wrong.Also take a walk on upper main st. on any given day or weekend.The area is full of people shopping and enjoying the shops.I know several of the business people on upper main and they all are doing well.I have not gone down on lower main st. for years,but I have heard that on weekends it is full of younger people enjoying the night life.We need a draw of some kind to attract people 7 days a week.I don't know if the water front project is what we need or not.But it seems that the city is putting a ton of money into the project.Maybe it will work maybe not.Their Hilton has not not worked out to good form them.This might be different I guess we will see.

timerick — May 1, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: We moved to the Uptown Village area about 10 years ago and love what we see happening there. With Safeway on the very upper end, we have been able to truly buy local by parking our auto and walking. I made a commitment to try to buy all our holiday and birthday gifts locally, too, downtown and uptown. Even the dog food comes from Canine Utopia. Our health has improved because we are hoofing it everywhere. Post office. Bank. First run movies. Library. Groceries. Adult beverages and great food. Art. Entertainment. My 2005 Jetta TDI has less than 50,000 miles. My hubby's 2001 Mustang has less than 45,000 miles.

I get my glass and new screens done downtown, too. You might know of the place. :)))))

I am so afraid that this will dry up without the CRC project. The promise of it has brought in some of these businesses.

No matter where you stand on this emotional and divisive issue, we are all worried.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou,I live in the Carter Park area and my wifes 05 jeep has 18,000 miles and my 06 f-150 has 40,000 miles.We find most everything we need right in town.We don't go to east Vancouver or Portland.Mostly because we don't like the traffic.I can't think of a better area to live in.At our age everything we need is right there.Also most of our friends live on the west side along with several of our childern.I was raised in the Lincoln area back in the 50's.My mom taught at Lincoln and my dad owned a fish market on 8th. st.As you can see I have seen alot of changes in Vancouver.Some good and some not so good.I guess that is life.

timerick — May 1, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Vivere lungo e rendere prospero*

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 1, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not another Star Trek fan....

roger — May 1, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No hablo Italiano, pero en Espanol - Vivo largo y prosperan

roger — May 1, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC, Goldie, Manthou, Timerick -

Some may consider that Vantucky is an island. People in Oregon moved outward to places like Gresham years ago - but Portland, just like The Blob, has slowly reached out and swallowed them up. There are isolated municipalities like Troutdale that believe they've escaped, but when it suits Portland they're gone too. A whole lot of people from Oregon have moved up here to escape that fate. If it was just grumpy old folks who would be happier in Sun City (I caught that Del Webb reference, Manthou), the fight would have been lost ages ago. That there Mayor wearing the fancy Italian loafers would have had us all speaking Portlandese ages ago - but the good people of Bubbatown (Orchards and outward) have allied with those ex-P'Towners out on the 162nd corridor - and it's sure looking good for our side.

Timerick is correct, though. If light rail actually went somewhere that makes sense it just might be a little more popular. And if the people here really want LRT, then we should build our own system operated by C-Tran. That nonsense about "we should tie into their however many miles of track makes no sense - if we build LRT and extend our system across the river we can accomplish the same thing AND avoid being part of the TriMet systems which are on the verge of failing - they have way too many bills due from all the bonds they've sold to build all their tracked routes (and the skycar down there at the lower end of the city).

roger — May 1, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.

How do you know what I am thinking. You're judging me by my statement without asking for a further explanation, holyc. First of all, before any type of urban sprawl should begin, you MUST fill the void...the empty spaces in a "*ReDevelopment*" phase. There's far too much empty commercial and residential spaces yet to be finished or they have current property development not fit for Potlands rats. This is one of the reasons why I supported (and still do) the expansion of the Waterfront Development to the west side of I-5 from the Waterfront East well as the Port of Vancouver expansion. On the west end of the port sits the old Vanalco plant. I believe it still isn't being utilized (if it is, I'd appreciate it if someone knew who is there).

Secondly, (and this is for you too, roger) regarding loo rail...
you need to look at the transit ridership patterns to truly get the real picture of Clark County's needs. Yes, on certain hours of the day, Bus 4 is filled to capacity and express buses are definitely popular...but on other hours of the day, the buses such as 4, 32, 37 and 25 just to name a few, are lucky if they see a half-filled bus...some are almost empty. Now take into consideration the number of seats on a loo rail train such as the Yellow line. Do you truly see a need for Loo Rail to Fort Vancouver way OR beyond at this time, during 6 of the daytime hours for let's say...maybe 30 or 40 passengers??? From what I've checked on the TriMet website, they run every 15 minutes. So you would be benefiting about 4-6 passengers every hour. That's not exactly what I would consider a cost-worthy endeavor. Do you truly believe $170 million to bring Loo Rail to Fort Vancouver Way as something worth burdening the commuters with???

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And have described precisely the problem which the neighborhoods like Rockwood had faced, thanks to "urban sprawl" and "progress."


BTW...for anybody who claims it's only old people who move to Vancouver...I was 21 when I moved here and I liked what I saw and hope to some day live my golden years here! One relative moved out of state (not Oregon) and was happy to return to the age of 28. Young couples are moving into our neighborhood...from other states. On our street alone, there's not a single elderly citizen living here. Maybe three are in their low 60's...another eight are in their mid 20's-30's...the rest are 40ish and 50ish. The younger adults are grabbing the affordable homes while the homes are available....and that's just my observation.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.

With 7-10 years of loo rail construction and bridge replacement, Uptown Village will suffer. It's not an overnight fix. Why change a good thing for an out of state transit system who isn't doing so well??? Why not improve on our own transit which doesn't have a huge deficit?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mister Lou...when you posted your comment @12:31 pm, were you also trying to make that "V" with your fingers??? I believe I'm beginning to see the resemblance between you and Spock.

Oops...wrong avatar. I was looking at roger's.


goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou Brancaccio... I was wondering if you could answer a question for me.

If you were in charge of all planning and development operations in Clark County for one year, what would you like to see happen?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, all. I never claimed only old people move to Vancouver. I just worry that this is all who will be left when the CRC project fails.

Youth will flee. Businesses will dry up. But I could be wrong. Both sides have a dooms-day perspective that is not healthy.

Ever hear of self-fulfilling prophecies? Our minds will create reality if we don't drop the doom and gloom. That message was more self-pep talk than directed outward. :)

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal's my opinion that the CRC is failing already since they refuse to allow companies like Thompson Metalfab to pass their products safely downriver.

It's my opinion that the CRC is failing already since they're asking for funding to restore Hood River channel and that they're asking for funding for a museum.

It's my opinion that in Tiffany Couch's audit (which I'm sure the official audit will also state), there's missing funds.

It's also my opinion that the CRC is failing due to the fact that Oregon and their governor has made the blackmail statement "No Light Rail, No Bridge" and it's against the law to blackmail anybody anywhere in the USA.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola, you can say I'm wrong all you want but this is where you are blinded by your inability to see past your limited vision. The branch of the tree you refer to is a money tree and it's not coming from our own state. It's stretching across a state border from Oregon into Washington State. If you haven't noticed, we're not Oregon. We accept the fact that we have to pay Oregon State Taxes when working in Oregon and we don't get to vote on anything Oregon, but we do not and will not accept the notion of paying Oregon a second time for maintenance and operations of MAX and we don't want to pay a toll in order to build the bridge for commuters in vehicles so that you can have better access to your concerts.

And that highway saturation...Oregon needs to fix the Rose Quarter and Terwillegar Curves. The T-Curves...granted, they're working on it but Loo Rail hasn't helped that now, has it. The Rose Quarter area...they're not doing anything to improve it!!! They've talked about it...but nothing's happening!!! And Sunset Highway...they have Loo Rail and it hasn't helped that either. You really believe Loo Rail will help the commute into Vancouver? For whom??? Cyclists and bus riders?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola...have you ever driven the Eastbound I-84 stretch from I-5 during rush hour in the afternoon? Have you ever tried the side streets to get to the east side? Tell me your commute time on MAX any better? So tell me's that loo rail and streetcar helping with saturation on the east side of the Willamette, eh??? Or for the west side of the Willamette???

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OMG, OMG: Madore and Mielke (aka Frick 'n Frack) have bypassed Clark County hiring guidelines and appointed Don Benton as Director of Environmental Services for Clark County!!!!!

What? Is this April 1st? Tell me it is.

Don Benton and the environment. What a protector he will be!

Can we impeach these two cronyism-loving clowns?

Really. Where do I sign up for volunteering?

Here is the story by Erik Hidle:

State Sen. Don Benton was tapped to become Clark County's director of environmental services Wednesday in a surprise and controversial move by commissioners David Madore and Tom Mielke.

Madore and Mielke directed County Administrator Bill Barron to begin the hiring process for Benton, saying it was unlikely a better candidate could be found.

The move, which came during a work session with no public present, met with protests from Barron - who said it bypasses 14 years of human resources practices and warned it would "devastate" the organization.

It prompted outrage from Commissioner Steve Stuart, who stormed out of the meeting calling the move "disgusting" and an act of cronyism.

The sudden move to hire followed an email Madore received from Benton. Madore said Benton told him he will remain a state senator and split his time between the jobs.

This story will be updated.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW...just checked and I-5 through North Portland isn't stop and go...and on the Vancouver side of the's open and clear. So much for saturation.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, goldie. I want to engage some more on the CRC issue, but I am hopped up about what just happened in the work session for CC commissioners.

What did I predict? Madore would get in trouble for policy and procedure violations and he will cost the county hundreds of thousands in litigation.

It has begun.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I might have to retract what I said earlyer about Down Town Vancouver.I just got a call from my better half and someone jumped our fence and stole the heater,control and the over head grow lights out of her green house.I built the green house in 2007 and we have never had any trouble.

timerick — May 1, 2013 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.

The report says they began the hiring process. He's not in the position, yet. There's been no takers since the job was vacated they've put in the recommendation.

I'm not understanding why you find it such a threat to the county. He's been doing service at the state level for how many years, now? He must be doing something right if the voters keep bringing him back.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, tim, I am so sorry for that property crime. Make sure you report it. Let your neighborhood association know about it, too.

We had our garage broken into a few months ago. The first time since we moved here in 2003 that we had any trouble. They found the culprits, but we did not recover the stolen tools.

Cpl. Drue Russell is the neighborhood police officer and he should follow up with you.

What a violation.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 3:41 p.m.

If you can find the violation, then share it but for's hearsay on your part.

Again I state...I'm not understanding why you find it such a threat to the county. The guy has spent most of his career, trying to find ways to save the state money...and in this economy.....

He's a local...he's not someone from a state clear across the country.

Again...please tell me why you find this such a threat to the county. Talk it out, manthou. I'm truly trying to understand.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Read the FB comments, too, goldie.

I am not alone in my outrage.

They ordered Bill Barron to begin the hiring process. This violates so many HR policies and procedures, it will be dead on arrival.

If I can help with a recall, I am on it.

I do appreciate your attempt at positive spin:always a good thing. But you just don't know HR policy in government agencies: this is a huge violation.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.


Why don't you check into your own state...especially the lady hired by Kitzy...Patricia McCaig??? I don't hear you complaining about Kitzhaber.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.

I already did...and I have about the crossing project and other news, too. There's always opposition on everything.

So please tell me the violation you speak of. Is it any different from when the POTUS chooses his cabinet members? Is it any different from when a boss hires a relative rather than you for a job?

Human Resource Policy is not a law. It is a suggestive course of action. Unless I see a law that has clearly been broken...I think people are getting worked up over nothing.

One question...if it had been a Democrat chosen, would you people have reacted in the same manner?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Most administrative openings in government usually go through a couple of processes. First, HR posts it internally for a set amount of time. This gives current employees a chance to apply. Sometimes this step is skipped and the job is an open posting from the start, with anyone nationally applying. Applications are accepted and screened by a committee. Sometimes the public serves on that "search" committee. Then two or three top candidates are chosen and interviewed, vetted.

There are laws that govern these processes. The application process cannot violate discrimination laws, for instance.

Two commissioners cannot simply huddle together over the bible and a beer and annoint a buddy as the next director of environmental services. That is a clear violation of policy and procedures and might have even broken a law or two.

It is arrogance and ignorance at its ultimate.

Don't even get me started on their choice: Don Benton and the environment? That is like making David Madore Light Rail monitor.

Temple Lentz is right: Hamburglar will be their choice to replace John Wiesman.

Oh, Clark County is in trouble.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Helping you understand this is beyond my power. Have you ever been involved in a government search and hire process?

Let's just wait and see which perspective prevails.

I wouldn't place money on yours, though. :)

Two commissioners cannot simply appoint someone because they want to.

And being a Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with it. I would be enraged if their choice had been Annette Cleveland.

Difference is: Annette Cleveland would have known better than to participate in such a sham.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, no I haven't been involved in a government search and hire position. Maybe that's half the problem of government...they waste too much time "thinking" things out and the hiring process is no different.

My perspective is...I don't understand what all the screaming is about. The job was vacant for over two weeks and they chose Benton. I didn't see anybody else lining up for it.

I think Dena Horton said it better than anybody else on FB when she said the following:

"The County doesn't get to overrule state and federal regulations. I think the County has been battling with the state over stormwater issues for quite awhile and doesn't get to simply ignore state and federal requirements. They could certainly try to work with the state and feds to figure out something that makes more sense for Clark County. But you are mistaken if you think that just because Don Benton gets "appointed" to a County job that the County can simply ignore the higher levels of government...don't forget that several sources of County funding flow from the state and federal government. (Unless the new County plan is for the County to turn away state and federal dollars and simply let David Madore pay for everything)."

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No, I am not a clueless closet republican. Your insults serve no purpose, holycrapola. I'm trying to understand the situation and all you can do is insult today. As far as meritocracy...who should have taken the job and when? Next year???

As far as Madore...if he's screwed up as you claim...then he'll pay the price. Just because I state the other opinion, doesn't mean I have some kind of passion for the person. Frankly, I trust him about as far as I'd trust the Devil.

How do you know if I even voted for the guy? Bet you'd be surprised if I told you I didn't.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*"I am against all corruption and you should too. I am in shock right now learning that you condone the practice. Shame on you as well."*

Shame on me because I'm asking questions? Show me the law Madore and Mielke have broken, holycrapola. If it's not written in stone, it's not a law and THAT'S why they're getting away with it. I do not condone illegal acts.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, I make it simple. The position is NOT an appointment. It is a regular position for which people need to apply. Then the vetting starts. That is standard HR practice. Madore completely overstepped the bounds with this one. It is getting too smelly around him. Manthou is right. Watch the manure starting to hit the ceiling here.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the Clark County Human Resources Manual:

Maintaining Integrity of Process

If a question or challenge is raised about any phase of the recruitment and selection process, the Human Resources Department or other designated body may investigate and, when necessary, take whatever measures are required to maintain the integrity of the recruitment and selection process.

Looks like Francine Reis will be fielding some complaints.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Short. Sweet. Simple. Smart.

You get the prize today. :)

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal can think all you want based on your ASSumptions. You like to be rude and's a two way street, bud. I could play the same game but I won't. I was asking some questions, trying to figure out why everyone is in a tiff about this. I am understanding some but when it's clouded by insults and empty ASSumptions, nothing gets solved. If you think I care of your disappointment in me...I really don't. I believe it's unsubstantiated but that's my opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just another con job by some folks who are losing ground in the political world and are trying to tarnish Mr. Benton's political career. The guy presented his resume' after being suggested by two politicians. From what I've read and what history has shown...he's more than qualified. The resume' is to be reviewed by Mr. Barron. The hiring process isn't something done overnight.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

you're way out there on the wrong side of this one. Your question about party affiliation of Benton's appointment is a non-starter.

Secondly, a cabinet level position requires majority approval of the sinate-this hiring was done behind closed doors-if anything, it suggests we need a more balanced commission if 2 of 3 (Madore and his minion) can rule the day.

And then there's that issue of skirting public input and the HR Dept. You OK with that? What if these nutjobs hired a total goofball with no credentials, but hey, he opposed CRC, their pet peeve. Madore I & II will do nonsensical stuff, if it is anti-CRC, I get it. But this-over the top. Arrogance at it's best. MADORE MUST GO! If he wants to be a czar, go back to Digital whatever. I can't wait for the daily 'couve on this one.

mrd — May 1, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.

I TRULY appreciate no digs against me by you for trying to understand the system. I'm asking questions, trying to understand the situation and am being labeled as someone with no ethics and that I condone corruption. I pointed out corruption at other levels in government and automatically it's assumed that I condone it. Sheesh!!!

In my last comment, I stated that Benton submitted a resume' to Mr. Barron. He doesn't have the position yet. It's still in the hiring process.

As far as you know what hitting the fan...everyone's pointing fingers at Madore but Mielke had his hands in it too. Seems to me they both will be under some major scrutiny and a possible investigation.

I remember when people were hired with just a handshake and verbal communication... government level as well. PC sucks.

Funny how the news can shape a story to pit opposing sides against each other rather than trying to discuss it in a mature manner. Dang...the news is clever these days. Remember, it's May Day...the day for riots and picketing and marches!!! Guess the C put the fly on the wall for this one.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd: Yes. You bet.

This is the beginning of a HUGE story and it will end with Madore's downfall. Problem is, Mielke is too stupid to realize he should have declined to participate in this ethical lapse.

I filed a formal complaint just now. Because I can.

You know this is about the state slapping Clark County on the hands via the upper courts on water quality.

The Columbian was trying to get some FOIA records about Kevin Gray's departure. Mielke was murmuring about defamation concerns.

The good thing about this is that Madore has exposed himself shamelessly. He does not care about laws, or policies, or procedures. He makes up his own. Except that is not the way government is supposed to work.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Benson does not know squat about the environment, he is currently a senator. holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 4:14 p.m*

Umm neither does Al Gore and he too was a senator and VP, yet there are those who follow him like a all knowing all seeing demi-god of the environment...when he knows diddly crap about it except on how to dupe the public and put millions in his bank how is Benton any different? Oh I know Benton is a Republican, so he is everything evil..

ELISI — May 1, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

from goldie at 5:21 pm:

I remember when people were hired with just a handshake and verbal communication... government level as well. PC sucks.


Oh, Lord goldie. I'd so love to try to understand your alternative universe. Employment law is not about "political correct." It levels the playing field for shenanigans like we are witnessing here.

Not trying to make fun of you. We are just worlds apart in terms of life experience. I wish I could understand where you are coming from better.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — May 1, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.

YOU'RE starting up, too??? Sheesh! I'm merely trying to understand it all, mrd. I made the comment regarding political affiliation based on an observation by those who have clearly stated they are not Repubs and what it is they're saying about this (including Steve Stuart). I do not condone anything done shiftlessly by any government official or anybody in any leadership capacity but it's happening all the time and nobody does a damned thing about it!

As I've said before...if they've broken any law...including ethics violations...they need to be punished. If that means losing their positions on the county commissioner's seat, then so be it...and it's not just Madore. It's Mielke also. And yes, I see it as a partisan issue. Two Repubs...the majority in county commissioner's office made the offer and one Democrat stormed out, screaming cronyism. Explain to me why this hasn't brought out a political battle of words right now, would you please???

Now...a question for the Director of Environmental Services a cabinet position? Have you checked to see what the director must be qualified to do? Have you read Benton's resume'? Tell me who is more qualified?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — May 1, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.

Good one

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, there was no need to insult. Facts are facts, and this is bad stuff. Quite frankly, I want to see the job announcement, where was it posted? I doubt there actually was one, and therein lies the rub. You Do NOT call up your buddy and give him a job. That's a no-no in public arena. You go for qualified hires. On top of this, I also take note of how many times Madore oversteps the bounds. I consider Mielke the clue-less side kick. I am sure he knows how many people thought him to be such. Now he has a buddy he can rely on and support, must make him feel powerful.
There' s just too many strikes against Madore. This is not his fiefdom, but he surely acts like it. People are wising up me thinks. A few law-suits soon and we shall see.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Oh, Lord goldie. I'd so love to try to understand your alternative universe. Employment law is not about "political correct." It levels the playing field for shenanigans like we are witnessing here.*

*Not trying to make fun of you. We are just worlds apart in terms of life experience. I wish I could understand where you are coming from better.*

*manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.*

You say it levels the playing field for shenanigans like we are witnessing here, eh...

So what Kitzhaber did by hiring that broad I was telling holycrapola @4:05 pm???'s truly working now, isn't it! Of course, there's also issues of ethics at the city council level but we're supposed to ignore it because they know all and we're supposed to respect them. And then there's Mr. Moeller...yeah, the guy who sued to keep voters from being able to decide the crossing project funding. might not be exactly the same thing but my point is...issues of ethics are happening all the time and people let it slide...unless it matches their agenda. Are you going to deny that?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For the record. I am employed for longer than I care to think of. am familiar with employment laws. I have been hired and have hired. I worked in private settings and in public settings. This is a really bad thing to pull at this level of government. It is not an appointed position, it is a standard position. Glad Manthou lodged formal complaint, we need them to roll in. I might very well be next.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Golden, manthou, luvithere et all,

How is this any different than so many have been chosen by our pres for cabinet etc jobs and they haven't clue as what the job really does? How many have left those jobs because of not fairing well in it?

ELISI — May 1, 2013 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Quite frankly, I want to see the job announcement, where was it posted?

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:38 p.m.

So do I. And thanks for the comment about no insults needed.

Regarding Madore...maybe you can clue me in to his "stepping over the bounds" in other issues. I know he's raised a few eyebrows and made some people nervous...but what has he done otherwise?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 5:42 p.m.

Stop with your innuendos, holyc. I'm not backpedaling. I'm still trying to understand this situation. Thanks to folks like luvithere who make statements without bullcrap...I'm beginning to understand but I still have many questions. If you cannot realize my intent is honest, then don't bother sending statements my way. Regarding Madore...I haven't trusted the guy since he made reference that he had no intentions of ever running for office way back when. It's no offense to the guy...but any transplant who comes to your state from another and runs for office doesn't always have your state's best interests at heart. can't even get it right. The senator's last name is Benton...that's Benton with a "T." Stick to Multnomah County, holyc.

If Benton is officially hired as director of environmental services, it might step on your toes a bit...being a land owner in Clark County and all that, you know...OR it might be a good thing when your "stormwater drainage" taxes drop due to his ability to find wasted spending in government.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

Two wrongs? Please explain...WITHOUT INSULT, please!

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Goldie, what he hasn't done yet is open the job flood gates he promised us right away. LOL-but that's another story.
The money withheld from CREDCE, the idiocy surrounding the contract with the Humane Society, the public prayers, the personal assistant only he needs, the not reading his documents before he attacks, how's that for starters? I am sure I left something out. But for me it is the total sum that turns me off. Not just one thing. He feels kingly, and I don't like kings.
Elisi, this is not a cabinet position, it is a regular job opening. Not sure why you need to bring Obama into this either. But whatever.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: This is a JOB, not a government appointment.

A high-paying administrative job, no less.

Like luvithere, I have gone through a national hiring process myself and have been on several search committees for upper level administrative jobs throughout my career.

Following written policies and procedures and civil rights laws are all part of the process if it is to be fair and credible. To ignore rules or make them up as you go along invites all sorts of meritorious litigation. I told you all that David Madore was going to engage in shenanigans that would cost us big time. Looks like he has jumped in with both feet.

Not once have I ever, ever witnessed such a blatant "in your face" ignoring of ethical hiring practices.

Which leads me to wonder: what Federal laws has David Madore violated in his hiring practices at US Digital.

Oh, to be a young reporter right now. Erik Hidle: you struck gold.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice smear campaign I'm seein'. Looks like the promoters of the LRC are getting so desperate, they're trying to take three BIG opponents down at once. Too bad that some of us can see it for what it is but others...too blinded by their prejudice. The truth shall prevail and that's a fact.

If Madore and Mielke did indeed violate ethics laws...their days in office are numbered. Honestly, I think everyone is jumping in too quickly to judge the situation. If the C got it right the first time, then why are they stating the story will be updated?

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So when the broad was hired by Kitzhaber and never registered as a lobbyist...what was your response then, holyc??? Seems to me you were pretty quiet about it. It had everything to do with the crossing project and her connections to David Evans & Associates and her being on the payroll with a hefty wage to boot. Oh wait...that's a Washington issue now...isn't it??? That's promotes what you want all over Clark County...loo rail. So what's in it for you, holyc?

EHHHHHK! Strike one, holycrapola. Try again.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And're right about one thing...your final two words @6:02 pm...

FREAKIN' CROOKS...the whole lot!

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hm, Gold, I am no supporter of light rail. I do not engage in a smear campaign. I am stating my opinion which I base on my knowledge of certain employment laws and regulations. I would be furious no matter what political side these people are on. On that note, Holy, his appearance is beside the point here in regards to Benton. That is not the issue. I also do not agree with most of his politics, maybe a few, but also besides the point actually. Fact is they are trying to skirt the regulations. Never seen it done so openly.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Smear campaign? Really?

I am just asking questions, goldie. Like you do.

Where there is smoke there is fire with Madore. He is revealing himself so well and is arrogant enough not to care.

Benton will NOT get this job, but Frick and Frack will not approve any other candidate. We will have a perpetual impasse, like Congress.

We have John Wiesman's job to fill yet.

The County counsels are going to burn the midnight oil tonight in preparation for the emergency meeting tomorrow.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Not sure why you need to bring Obama into this either. But whatever.
luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:55 p.m*

*Elisi: This is a JOB, not a government appointment.
manthou — May 1, 2013 at 5:56 p.m*

I bring the pres into luvithere cause if we allow this to go on in the top leadership of the country, it will go on locally too. A job is a job, be it appointed or hired both get a paycheck via the taxpayer.

ELISI — May 1, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, the word is brazen.
That's the nice part of me talking. The not so nice one wants to say his ego finally got the better of him and he feels total empowerment (note the use of decent words, still )

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc: I don't like prosecutors in politics. :)

Or motion control enthusiasts.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.

Did you ever see him give a timeline on the "floodgates?" Seems to me, jobs are returning to Clark County. There's big business turning to the port and Integra is moving their office to Clark County (not because of Madore). Maybe he saw something we didn't when he made that statement. Regarding your other statements...I was speaking of ethics violations and laws broken. Seems to me everything was done by the book when it came to the decision process. Honestly...he's a greenhorn on the job and has made moves which the Good Ol' Boyz Klub doesn't like. As I've said...if he's done anything wrong...he'll pay the price as will Mielke. No bones about it!

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, by nature a cabinet appointment is an appointment. period. Now if it is a good or a bad one, that's a different question. Seems plenty under prior admin there also. Should we start with them, too?
You are correct that such appointments should be good ones. totally agree. But we are discussing a standard job opening. Different rules and topic.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Smear Campaign:

a campaign to tarnish the reputation of a public figure, especially by vilification or innuendo.

a strategy to discredit a person, esp. a public figure, through disparaging remarks or false accusations


Till all facts are presented during a hearing it necessary, everything stated including news articles is pure hearsay.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, sadly, it might be us who will pay the price. And yea, he did say he would bring the jobs here. I have seen zero effort on his part though. Too busy shaping the county commish office the way he likes it, focusing on silly things.
He might be a greenhorn but he might also start listening to a few with the know-how. That's one quality he does not seem to possess.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie: you have a double standard. When it suits you, say, making allegations against Kitzhaber and calling his appointee names, that is OK.

Public figures are under different defamation rules. So call Kitzhaber and his friends what you wish. It is free speech.

I will do the same with whichever public figure I deem deserves it.

No one deserves the public's disdain and mistrust today in Clark County better than David Madore and his puppet, Mr. Mielke.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I don't like Kitz whatever. I don;t like "doctors" in politics....*

*I would have complained the same. It went under my radar I guess.
holycrapola — May 1, 2013 at 6:12 p.m.*

As I said originally in a comment to Manthou @5:41pm...

."....issues of ethics are happening all the time and people let it slide..."

Guess you let that one slide without saying a thing. Thanks for providing confirmation to my statement.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.

My thoughts on Commissioner Madore...he's trying to cut back or eliminate tax increases...maybe even generating tax reductions in order to make our county look more affordable, thus allowing companies to move to Clark County.


manthou — May 1, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.

They've definitely raised eyebrows these days. No more Good Ol' Boyz Klub, that's for sure.

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal isn't a double standard I'm presenting. I was showing the FACT that there are questions of ethics prevalent throughout government from state to state and even at the presidential level as even ELISI pointed out. I have no respect for the "broad""female lobbyist who failed to follow government protocol."

goldenoldie — May 1, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow - Just read the article a few minutes ago, and I'm flabbergasted.

Side note - No comments from Nails? Hawkeye is out of town and must not have checked in yet, but Nails should be raising hell by now.

I noticed Madore's e-mail to Barron said we need an administrator and not an environmentalist in the position. Don't we already have a big lawsuit pending? I'm trying to figure out whether the message is they want someone who has the managerial savvy to avoid these things, or whether they want someone who'll do the full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes routine - just start giving the blessing to any development project.

Or just maybe ---- Are Jimmy and Timmy and friends bright enough (or devious, if you prefer) to dream something like this up? You've got to admit - this will probably divert attention away from the budget for a few day. Meanwhile those two can skulk through back alleys looking for a way to get that vote they need to win the Senate.

Wow - I haven't seen so many outraged people in a long time as are posting on facebook. Note to self - don't make any comments that might be construed as against protecting our environment here. I suppose I could try to sneak in a comment about what the CRC bridge and train could do - but given Madore's position on that I suppose it's better to remain silent. That crowd wants blood!!!

roger — May 1, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere and manthou, again a job is a job paid for by the taxpayer from local to the WH. Now did I say Obama? ummm no I didn't, I said "pres" so assuming again. Not every pres down to local politicians have hired or appointed someone to everyone's likes.

I tend to allow a person that has been elected time to do their job before I jump. Madore hasn't been in office long enough, yet for me to make any judgments. If he fails, he will be ran out of, or removed office, more than one politician has.
If you really are concerned with the state in which our government does, then I suggest looking into senators, congress and other officials who haven't paid taxes in years, bounced checks in the thousands and credit cards ran past the limit. If you want to clean up politics locally, start from the WH down. Clean up the leadership first. Locally they see what DC does and think they can too.

ELISI — May 1, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's clean house locally, Elisi. Can we start here? That's the current discussion. Still discussing a standard job opening. Job, not appointment. I have not mentioned qualifications. Only the way they went about this.

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Per The Wash Post -- A D.C. Council member is preparing to introduce a resolution calling on the Washington Redskins to change its name, perhaps to the Washington Redtails. Council member David Grosso, an independent elected last year, said he plans to pursue his non-binding resolution because the current name is “a derogatory, racist name.”

Now that's got me pissed off.

roger — May 1, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On a much happier, brighter, cheerful note. I am going to Germany for a few weeks this Summer.

Nails and Roger: I will be stuffing myself with the good German bread and Broetchen and pretzels!!!!!! And the good fresh lunchmeat that lasts a day or two as it lacks the nice American preservatives. Hm, same for the bread actually.

had to be said.jealous I hope?

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: One of our sons played lacrosse for Sonoma State. When he started school, the school's sports nickname was "The Cossacks."

That did not sit well with the Russian community in Sebastopol (I get that: kinda like equating Italians with the Mafia) and the name was changed to The Seawolves.

I had to look that up because I only remember The Cossacks.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: where in Germany are you traveling?

Mentioning German lunchmeat makes my mouth water. I do love leberkaes and get it when I can at Eidelweiss in SE PDX.

manthou — May 1, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There's an update, written by Stephanie Rice. Benton isn't qualified. And something stinks about this - read the follow up article, and convince me some like that was written in 3 hours.

roger — May 1, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I go to southwestern part of the land, which is the BEST part. And I LOVE leberkaes myself, always buy that also here at local German shops.
Impressive write-up on Benton. Uh huh, but not in three hours. What gives?

luvithere — May 1, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm wondering if it is legal to be hysterically laughing at the shooting off the mouth, grab the ASSuming attitude of some on here tonight over benton.
this is better than any comedy club routine!
panties in a wad, foaming at the mouth comments, who'da thunk the forum would provide such. laughing all the way to bed....g'nite peeps.

jasonb — May 1, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - Schnitzel with brown gravy at the local Schutzenhaus would make me content. No frills and good eats! And then a first Saturday trip to Homburg in Saarland - home of the greatest Floh- und Antiquitätenmarkt in the world. And a quick trip up to Trier to the tourist section by Porta Nigra - there's an organ grinder and monkey who were a fixture there; I had a squabble with that damn monkey over a DM I dropped. It's got to be old enough that I can take him this time and get my money back.

roger — May 2, 2013 at 5:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - I forgot a stop. About halfway between Stuttgart and Augsburg on the A8 is the factory town of Ulm. I got caught up with collecting Ulmer Keramics bottles - I just might have the most impressive (and only) collection here in the States; I zeroed in on the ones with the West Germany stamp and the metal lids. I'd have to stop and look to add to this.

roger — May 2, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Got some interesting stories there, Roger! I will be in vicinity of Stuttgart myself. Also going to Freiburg for a few days, start of Black Forest. Ulm is a great town. Can't wait.

luvithere — May 2, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal




goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 1, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

Those environmental issues you speak of...they wouldn't have to do with habitat destruction beneath the bridges...or the fact that pollutive factors while unearthing the bridge foundations of the green dinosaurs will sideline the construction projects for weeks, possibly months or indefinitely they??? Makes you wonder where the tax dollars would come from IF such an issue were to arise, huh. Oops...we shouldn't be talking about it..

I the folks with the CRC or ICC...or maybe Jimbo even possibly have a magic hat available???


goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 6:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To you self-proclaimed experts in the hiring process for a county position...

How many job positions in Clark County (city, state or federal for that matter) or even in elected positions have been filled by people who did not meet all qualifications???

I still believe Benton is a good choice.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HA HA!!! Here's pie in your face, Orygun!!! Washington State has been named the Top Bike-Friendly State in the Nation!!!

nyuk, nyuk!!!

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger...I saw that David Arnett on the FB side is looking for the job listing for Director of Environmental Services. Since I don't have FB, maybe you could post it on there for me:

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

" might not be exactly the same thing but my point is...issues of ethics are happening all the time and people let it slide...unless it matches their agenda."

seems exactly what you're doing on the M&M; appointment of Benson.

I saw a piece on "60 Minutes" way back when in which an elderly couple were losing their ranch because of a rule/law/regulation pushed by the then governor of Montana. When asked how they could support the guy, the woman replied something like "well, he's against abortion". Will never forget that, quite possibly the dumbest reply I've ever heard.

If you're defending M&M; on this one, maybe you might have too much faith in Madore due to his anti-CRC position.

I think Madore, like every other politician, sucks bigtime. It's all a game of pushing personal agendas, money, power, and ego. Then comes the the real work, selling yourself to the peon voters and party supporters (money) come election time.

mrd — May 2, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola, why don't you take a look at the job description and qualifications. You might be surprised to find it's just a "suggestion" that the person has the qualifications in management as applied to environmental services. It doesn't say its mandatory. If you compare the qualifications, Mr. Benton's resume' clearly shows he has more than enough experience...and it will be backed up with his work history.

Nice smear you're trying, though. Did you say your name was Jim?

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for posting the link to the Director of Environmental Services job, goldie. I had been searching for it. More information is better than less information. :)

Benton's appointment has something to do with the pending Federal lawsuit against Clark County, I believe. Also, remember the FOIA request that was discussed previously on here? We still don't know why Kevin Gray resigned or retired and what that might have to do with the Rosemere Neighborhood's lawsuits and any conflict with Clark County commissioners. I hope we will find out someday.

If you are worried about water quality, you have to admire Rosemere's tenacity. Just another great example of what citizens-in-action can do. Remember, this neighborhood association was disbanded by the city and they reformed as a 501c3. (The city sanctioned association is now called Rose Village).

[link text][1]


manthou — May 2, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd @7:30 think I'm letting it slide? Maybe you need to go back and read my comments @5:21pm, 5:32 pm, 6:01 pm, 6:16 pm and 6:21 pm (and probably a couple others).

If they have violated any laws or did something which constitutes an ethics violation...they will be punished. How long should the people of Clark County wait for them to find just the perfect person for the job with 100% of the qualifications? I noticed nobody has answered my question regarding government job application processes and qualifications @6:21 am.

It is obvious to me that with all the hearsay and innuendos flying around...this is just a smear campaign and the media has their hands in it, too. Notice how they didn't post the job posting link? I could find it with ease this morning!

Only part of the story. Notice how Benton's request for the job was sent to the commissioners WITH resume' attached and two out of three accepted it, knowing there were no other individuals even remotely qualified who submitted an application.

So again...maybe you can explain to me just what all the screamin' is about. I still haven't seen the issue of noncompliance that the Benton/Mielke/Madore for which the opposition is throwing out the accusations.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.

As I've said all along, the truth shall prevail and I find the Columbian at fault in generating such an article without posting the link to the actual job posting. It took a *reader* to bring it to the table. Corruptive news reporting as far as I'm concerned...either that or very messy and unorganized reporting on their part. This tarnishes the credibility of their story...the Columbian's credibility. Yeah, it raises eyebrows and as I've said from earlier on...if there's any law broken or any ethics will show up.'s pure propaganda...a smear campaign by those who oppose the position to be filled by a long-time State Senator who has many years in management skills. And's definitely a partisan issue, even if the job is not based on political affiliation.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm just having a hard time fathoming the timing of this environmental job fiasco. Benton is deeply involved in one of the more crucial state legislative negotiation sessions since I moved to WA in the early '90s - He's part of a coalition that has done a good job of selling the shortcomings of the CRC, and they have to work on amending that transportation funding plan that - if the House version is pushed through - will cost all of us hundreds of extra dollars per year to keep our cars on the road. This kind of crap is a distraction that the important effort in Oly can't afford - And I expect Jim Moeller is working on his third cell battery of the morning letting everyone up north know about this.

The timing of the announcement also doesn't say much for the intelligence of Madore and Mielke.

Maybe there's something going on that none of us know. Hopefully Editor Lou has told all those little busy bee reporters that fun and games is over - to get out and dig until they get to the bottom of this. I'm getting tired of having to wait for Andrea and the other guy at WW to come up with the answers.

roger — May 2, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal questions regarding the stormwater issue...

If Clark County must pay the are those fines going to help clean up the problem...or do they even go back into helping the environment? Will the fines be imposed upon the taxpayers as well as the price of the clean up? Is this just a moneymaker for the EPA?

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You would qualify for the job better than Benton, goldie. No joke. He has not read one paragraph about current environmental issues, compared to things you have posted here.

This isn't about qualifications. It is a political move meant to hobble environmental checks and balances in our county.

Maybe the county charter allows a majority of the commission to appoint Bozo or Clarabelle, if they so choose. I guess we will see.

That does not mean that it is a wise choice to circumvent the due process protections that are delineated in Clark County's typical hiring process.

If Benton accepts this position, his self-serving motives will be further exposed.

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys, just read about the Madore, Meilke, Benton mess. What a joke. I think Temple is right, we are just scratching the surface of what kind of damage these two idiots are able to do.

It's hot down here, I wanna come home.

hawkeye — May 2, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Honestly, I don't have the answers to your questions about that pending Federal lawsuit against Clark County. I just don't have the legal or technical expertise to even venture a speculation.

I do know that Michael Bertish and the Rosemere Neighborhood Association have a lot of national political muscle behind them, which is why they keep winning in court. The latest win was in March, when the WA Supreme Court refused to hear the case to overturn the lower court.

All that is left to fight now is the Federal case.

When I worked, part of my job was to make sure my schools complied with Federal and State special education laws. We could not have a school that decided to make up their own guidelines and expect to comply. Using the "we don't have any money to comply with Federal laws" NEVER was accepted in court as a legitimate excuse for noncompliance. If a law said a student required a certain accommodation or piece of equipment to give access to learning, then the school better find the funds to purchase the equipment or services.

Clark County is essentially saying: We don't have to follow Federal rules because our methods yield similar outcomes. We can be the ONLY county in WA that follows our own runoff rules.

Maybe Clark county will prevail, but, if they do not. They will have to find ways to cough up the fine money. Usually this is passed on to the taxpayers and the developers.

This is a huge issue and the County will fight it zealously in court. If I were a betting person, I would not be optimistic about their chances of prevailing.

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

haykeye: I kept looking for your friendly avatar last night when all this was going down! Get back home quick. Clark County is going down in flames.

nailingit: Where are you?

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Editorial from The Oregonian:

Hey, Olympia: Suck it up and Help Build the CRC

[link text][1]


manthou — May 2, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Inhofe was the ranking member of the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, and its chairman from 2003 to 2007. (Senator Vitter,The *Dapper Diapered Don has since taken his place)



March 09, 2012

**Inhofe Says Bible Refutes Climate Change**

Just published: The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future by Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK).

Inhofe's defense of his thesis is the Bible, not science.

On a radio show yesterday, Inhofe explained: "Well actually the Genesis 8:22 that I use in there is that 'as long as the earth remains there will be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night,' my point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."


**Michele Bachmann Reappointed to Intelligence Committee, Draws Well-Deserved Criticism**

*Bachmann retains intelligence committee post*

WASHINGTON — Rep. Michele Bachmann will remain privy to some of the nation's most sensitive national security information despite demands she be removed from the committee that oversees intelligence operations.


**Benton doesn't appear to meet minimum requirements for county job**

[fill in the blank;)

It's what they do and it's how they do it. Any monkey wrench conservatives throw into our "collectivist" government is a win for them. Just ask them. ( just don't touch war-senior bennies-tax welfare ;) Slowing down/halting federal government is a win no matter what. Look at Sequestration. (if anyone blames Obama/Dems for Seq., pls take time to understand it)

It's sad the latest Madore screw up is being divided amongst party/ideological lines. The Benton thing is wrong on it's face. Folks on both sides of the aisle should embrace transparency, fairness and a respect for due process. Unfortunately we've been down this unethical road with King David before.

manthou/luvit/mrd comments on Human Resources are spot on. In a previous life on the management side, it was important for me to not only understand but respect employment law.

As it's been pointed out, this position was not an appointment. Huge difference. (Is this position slated for Benton as a reward for his anti-CRC heroics?)

Look what Republicans do when they *have* the power to appoint.


manthou- Things are really heating up! One thing about county life with Madore, it's never boring.

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Someone is digging his very own political grave......


Let's gavel this corruption down at the ballot box next election.

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 2, 2013 at 9:41 a.m.

This "appointment" is indicative of what Republicans do. Gum up the works on both a national and local level. The will of the people is only a consideration when assessing election possibilities.

*Have no doubt. People like this rise fast but they fall miserably. The decent people turn against them...*

Only if we turn up at the ballot box. Everything else means nothing.

We've had politicians more corrupt than our King David retain power. Trust me, this only helps DM shore up his unwavering ill informed radical base.

Dave's not stupid and is looking ahead to higher office. This Benton thing only helps his cause with those who embrace his brand of evangelical conservatism. Ethics and morals be damned. He has a higher calling.

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What a beautiful day! Time to attack my yard.

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If I can place an order it would be a couple "fifths" of JD..Made and Distilled in America.... Thirst quenching after working in the garden.. Am planting the last of the veggies this weekend. My Fav is Eggplant, had a bumper crop last year, oh and spegetti squash.... Slap on some sun screen and hook a brother dweller up.. Will see ya when you get back...

On Mr Madore ...I sent him an email 6 weeks ago and his personal assistant contacted me and we spoke for a bit and she said he would get back with me about the issue. I have now sent several follow up emails but no response. That alone tells me something... Time and actions will tell the whole story.. I'm sure there will be many chapters ahead

vanwadreamer — May 2, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I hope you have a wonderful yard day.Think of me I am sitting at my desk answering phones and wasting a beautiful day.The same as tomorrow and half the day Saturday.I have a classic 67 Olds 442 sitting in my garage that might get to see some sun Saturday afternoon.But I am not going to let this Madore and Benton thing get to me.I have seen the same thing happen with the folks from Identity Clark County for years.If you don't belong to their group or way of thinking they will have nothing to do with you.But life goes on.And vanwa I have sent several e-mails to our elected ones from both sides and it takes weeks to hear back and then it has always been a form letter.At least you got a real call.I guess we don't matter except at election time.

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I knew it! We're connected!

My dad purchased a new 442 gold convertible. He was always an Olds man. From F-85's to Delta 88's, to 442's. Not sure if the 442 was 67' or 68', but I remember my older brother and I trying to talk him into a W-30 Doc Olds package but to no avail. It didn't need it. Ran like a hellhound, sounded great with the dual exhaust and was quite a head turner.

I think he paid something like $4500 for it. Insane when I think back to better cars costing so much less.

My brother eventually bought it from him, then sold it a couple of years later. My brother gets chided to this day for selling it. He wanted something to take to the track once in awhile and raise vehicle hell on local pavement. Lotsa street racing in my neck of the woods back in the day.

He bought a slightly used 69' Charger, beefed it up and turned very low 14's (maybe a high 13 can't recall) at the local track.

Anyway, 442's are great! Brings back memories.

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I have had this car for about 10 years.I took 4 years restoring it.Red in color bucket seats and a Sommers built 400 horse engine.Lets just say I am into this more than 4500.00.I had a 64 442 in hi school and also I bought a new 67 GTO.The GTO was 3400.00 brand new off the show room floor.I just saw one go on speed channel for 75,000.My how times have changed

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 11 a.m.

Priceless statement regarding the Good Ol' Boyz Klub of Clark County.

A 442, eh...


goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 2, 2013 at 8:07 a.m.

You will not get me to play your little game, Jimbo or whoever you are. I have been saying from early on...let the facts present themselves and the truth shall prevail. If charges are to be filed, they will be filed.

I've provided the job posting link in good faith...didn't have to waste my time with the likes of you or anybody else here on the forum but deemed it necessary to present the data which the Columbian had initially failed to present...and am now posting the Clark County Board of Commissioners Rules of Practice link. You can throw your own little innuendos...definitely unsubstantiated and hollow claims lacking any integrity whatsoever, holyc.

It is obvious, I am out to seek the truth on this matter and it is also obvious what agenda you are working and it leans towards slander and a smear campaign for anybody who disagrees with you. Therefore, if all you care to do is continue down your road of biased attack, there's nothing more I have to share with you.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just looked through some of the comments on the fb side.The natives are restless.If nothing else this Madore and Benton thing has been good for the doctors.Everyone will be tested for high blood pressure.I am sorry but I have to look at the humor in all this.You would think it is the end of the world as we know it.I know this is serious but I don't believe it to be life threatening.

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good to see you two boyz talking about toyz, nail and tim. I don't think my desire for a refurbished VW bug circa 1963 would ring your chimes too much. Too slow. But I love those things.

Clark County Administrator Bill Barron announced his retirement today. Don't blame him. What a fantastic job he did for the past 15 years. Godspeed, Bill. Enjoy.

Let's see now. Who will be "appointed" to this vacancy? Shall we start placing bets?

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.

Taking a break from the sun. I don't tan well unless that red color is tan.

Anyway, Clark County Administrator huh? Well, you can bet it won't be one of Steve Stuart's friends. Maybe HC is looking for a job, he'd fit right in but there's not much chance of that since I doubt it will be open to **REAL** applicants.

hawkeye — May 2, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou my youngest son would love your VW Bug.But right now at 33 he is putting hiself through college.I agree Hawk I think HC would fit right in.Also that Mike Yancey from the other side might work if you could get him to say more than one liners.I don't think that Drift would work he is to set in his ways.

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone else having site issues today? Super slow connect and the no login issue again, but not all the time.

manthou- One of my best friends in high school had a VW Bug. It was a blast! One thing about a Bug, the older ones anyway, you feel connected to your driving experience. :)

nailingit — May 2, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I don't think that Drift would work he is to set in his ways."

I took a short (hour) nap in the hammock. I must'a missed something, eh?

Drift — May 2, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes, the county has had "the good ol boys" network for some time. However, most county employees are hard workers and follow the rules. Madore and his sidekick have made the whole county look like fools. I don't blame Barron for leaving, I would not want to be in his shoes when the stuff hits the fan. I can see that the three stooges will do all they can to bring in the coal trains and crude oil to the port and not worry about any environmental issues. They will be opening the so-called floodgates for jobs. I am sure that if they get away with "appointing" Benton, they will also be able to "appoint" whoever they want to take Barron's place. Then look out. We are being sold down the river :(

lablover — May 2, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

First of all holycrapola, it is not MY link. It is the Clark County's link and secondly...Stuart also violated *principle #2 - A county commissioner should promote decorum, respect for others and civility in all public relationships.*

*The honor of holding public office necessitates that a commissioner behave with courtesy and respect for the dignity of others in all public relationships, including elected officials; employees; citizens; media; and representatives of other units of government. A commissioner should affirm the value of services provided by government and maintain a constructive attitude about governmental affairs. Meetings of the county commission should afford a prime opportunity for commissioners to promote and enhance respectful
civic discourse.*

And of course, principle #1 (next paragraph). Do any of the three have Clark County's best interests at heart...really???

*A county commissioner should be vigorously dedicated to the democratic ideals of honesty, openness and accountability in all
public matters involving the county government. A commissioner should exert a good faith effort to communicate the full truth about county matters and avoid misleading others or gaining personal
advantage. Accountability requires a commissioner to accept responsibility for his or her public conduct as well as the actions of the county commission. A commitment to the spirit of open government is characterized by the broadest possible provisions for public access and information sharing, and qualified only by those instances when meetings and/or certain public records are shielded by state law. A commissioner has an obligation to report suspected
illegal misconduct by another elected official to the proper legal authorities.*

So what would you want done??? Fire the three because of violations of principles???

My point is and always has been...there's sh.. happening in the government and always has been. This controversy is no different. The news writes their spin article and you fly off the handle as others have without first seeing the facts. You have proven to me that even you have let things slide when I mentioned Kitzhaber. Does that mean I should display obvious disgust with you? Of course not. Does that mean because you let it slide, you're less of person? Of course not. I'm merely pointing out the idiocy of the entire current political process, holycrapola. You've been duped, buddy.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lablover, Barron made the decision to retire early long before yesterday.

BTW...welcome to the forum.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sitting on the fence letting the chips fall? Hardly, holycrapola. What I did was wait to see all the facts. You on the other hand...jumped to conclusions from the get go.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey holyc you expected a different response? It's not going to happen...

soapbox4u — May 2, 2013 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey...soapie!!! What bridge did you just crawl out from under???? Long time no see!!! I was wondering when you'd pop up again with your clever one liners!!! Okay...two liners.

And you're correct. Holyc will not get a different response.

goldenoldie — May 2, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bill Barron is 68 years old. You call that "early retirement"?? Retirement is moving on to another phase in one's life. It's not the fact that he is retiring now, it is the timing in relation to current events.

soapbox4u — May 2, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know golden, I was nice and did not name call on you. You truly do show your true colors and mental illness when things are not going your way.

soapbox4u — May 2, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, thanks for the welcome. Even if Barron made the decision to leave long before yesterday as you claim, it seems a bit fishy to me that the news came out the day after he disagreed with Madore about hiring Benton without following any kind of protocol. Perhaps Barron decided he did not want to be the fall guy for Madore. I just wonder who will be next to go from the County administration.

lablover — May 2, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Fantastic editorial, Columbian!

[link text][1]


manthou — May 2, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You are right Manthou, fantastic editorial. Looking forward how this shakes out in the end. The kinglet will tell his fans to boycott the C, and he will focus next of which crony he can make administrator.
Wonder how many now finally see him for what he is. Anybody regret their vote yet?

luvithere — May 2, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm just as interested in another aspect of this "hiring action."

Consider that Madore and Mielke announced it, and Stuart "stormed out in disgust." I just listened to the audio, and it's very obvious Stuart was blindsided - they were planning a workshop in two weeks, and then were going to move to the hiring action. This move was planned by M and M before Wednesday's meeting - No doubt about that.

Now, step back to right after Madore took office - Wasn't he called on the carpet for suggesting an out of session meeting, and had to be told any time two of the Comms met it was considered a meeting and had to be advertised (or put on the calendar - I forget the specific requirement, but it was clear impromptu meetings were a NoGo)?

Does the County have a censure process? These two seem to have deliberately charged over the line this time.

And I'm still completely confused. As Stuart notes - They could have accomplished this by following the rules in place. The more I'm learning, this move is either incredibly stupid, or there's a big something we're not getting yet.

roger — May 2, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lablover: I agree that this was the last straw for Mr. Barron. Making his announcement today carries significance. His warnings to Madore and Mielke were dire yesterday, yet they foolishly refused to retreat.

Given the intense battles Clark County has faced for years with Rosemere's environmental advocacy, I can guarantee there will be more if Benton is foolish enough to accept this appointment.

I hope he listens to his better angels and declines, unless his application can be considered with others in the typical procedures.

Madore keeps harping about being a good steward. Well, there are many who will be watching his stewardship of the environment. He has never had to answer to a constituency before. Being the Master of his own Universe is not the same.

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, think kingly ego. It explains a lot.
In my opinion, the two clowns want Stuart to resign. fill the position with one more stooge for DM.

luvithere — May 2, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Both these guys have been suspected of working together behind closed doors, free from public process, as is the law. They just have not been caught.

I do think that Mielke's refusal to hand over his personal emails in a FOIA request has something to do with this collusion. We will see, if we ever get to read them.

I think it is so hypocritical that Madore ran on the "transparent government" promise.

Yeah. Right.

manthou — May 2, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just a thought about one of the "reasons" M & M gave for wanting to hire Benton right away was that they did not want to wait for the typical 90 or more days to hire someone. They have known since the first of the year that the Kevin Gray's position would be vacant in mid April. If they were really insterested in getting the best possible person for the job, why did they wait so long to "appoint" Benton? I believe that luvit is correct in thinking that if they can force Stuart to quit they can just do whatever they want.

lablover — May 2, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Kindly fill in some blanks. Back in 2008 Rosemere Neighborhood Association and a group called Columbia Riverkeeper (Hmmm... a familiar face or two in their old website photo) were pressuring Dept of Ecology to lean on Alcoa because their cleanup efforts were missing some crucial spots. Next thing you know - 2009 or 10, Ecology blesses Alcoa's work and says the area has been cleaned.

When I first started looking at the Waterfront project a couple of years ago I saw some articles that suggested the clean bill of health was bogus - No idea who generated them and haven't turned them up tonight. Would this clean up be related to the lawsuit Rosemere has against the County?

And would it be fair to suggest to HolyC that, given his latest comment that alludes to this same problem area, he should be calling for that entire Gramor project to be shelved, in the interest of all the people who will be playing on this parkland while being slowly poisoned by the noxious chemicals making their way up through the soil and attacking their internal organs and causing hundreds of deaths from strange new cancers?

Or something like that. Sorry for the poor impersonation, HolyC. I'll work on it more before my next attempt.

roger — May 2, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I really don't know about the Rosemere lawsuit connection to the Waterfront Development. I thought Rosemere was suing Clark County. Isn't the city of Vancouver involved in the Gramor plan?

In any event, you sparked my interest and I found a very new Oregonlive article about the Gramor Development. It is supposed to be shovel-ready in 12-18 months.

They seem to have put high end condos back on the plan. They had dropped them awhile ago when the economy was in the tank. Barry Cain says the success of this development is not dependent on a new bridge and LR, although he would like Portlanders to come on over here for good food and entertainment. :)

I would like to talk with Michael Bertish: he has a hair salon on 4th Plain now. He would be the person who would know about the status of the Rosemere lawsuit.

Here is the article, if you have not already seen it:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 2, 2013 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I may be wrong but didn't the Rosemere group split because of disagreements with in their group a few years ago and one faction got in with a enviromental group.

timerick — May 2, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The picture of Don Benton, sitting at his desk, reminds me of a Mel Brooks movie.

You know the one I'm talking about. Blazing Saddles.

Mel's sitting at a desk, jumping up and down and shuffling papers, proclaiming 'we gotta protect our phony baloney jobs'. Meanwhile Headly Lamar is complaining that the gov is mispronouncing his name. 'It's Headly Lamar not Heddy Lamar'. Funny stuff.

JohnCasey — May 3, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u — May 2, 2013 at 5:58 p.m.

Not going my way??? I didn't know the forum had to "**go - my - way**." I thought it's been flowing rather jubilantly lately with everyone posting what is on their minds. Heck, if the numbers are any indication, the Columbian is doing well this week. don't need to consider my comment to you as some kind of issue. It was said in jest. Regarding the "mental" statement, you are free to think as you wish. The assumption that someone is name calling when it isn't there can be construed as a mental disorder as well, my fellow forum dweller. Just sayin'.

So I showed my true colors, eh....maybe the true colors that I've come to realize that if I were to label myself politically, I would consider myself a **Moderate** who is tired of seeing taxes continually rise with nothing to show for it except a dying economic community and more children on the brink of starvation...and that I am pleased to see the tables are finally turning and our county will once again regain an affordable quality of life and that I see our county becoming something well worth noticing and well worth investing in??? Yeah...I'm showing my true colors, soapie. Sorry if it bothers you. You could always gray bar me. It won't hurt my feelings.

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

lablover — May 2, 2013 at 6:01 p.m.

Good point, lablover. Seems to me, a change in atmosphere is long overdue. Our government has long been stagnant in the county and nothing was working. Only time will tell if this transition is for the betterment of all.

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Since I don't FB, I do not have access to pages like Steve Stuart's. Thanks for posting that inyformation, holycrapola.

Like the mayor of Langley, WA, who served time in jail recently (and was forced to resign because of it) for abusing his power to the point he broke an environmental law, I fully expect Madore and Mielke, Frick and Frack, to stumble in a similar way eventually with the help of their pal Benton.


Because the two of them together are dangerous and beyond arrogant and stupid. Add Benton to the mix and you have a time bomb. Policies and procedures, laws, do not apply to them. It is only a matter of time before we are all whipped up about another fatal error they make.

Bill Barron sees this. Other folks I know at Clark County see this.

The Columbian sees this, I hope, and will be bird-dogging these clowns at every turn. Or at least I implore them to.

Only a matter of time, folks. Only a matter of time.

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, who brought down the mayor of Langley? It was NOT the local newspaper.

It was a citizen blogger.

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Yep. Rosemere Neighborhood Association was disbanded by the city, I beleive, as a neighborhood association. There was a lot of ugly, nasty in-fighting.

The new neighborhood association, sanctioned by the city, is called Rose Village. It has nothing to do with the 501 (c) 3 that is the environmental action group called Rosemere.

This is addressed, I believe, on Rosemere's web page.

If you really want to marvel at the power of citizen advocacy and push back, genuflect to these guys. The are a model of how to put the screws to a corrupt, cronyist government by the name of Clark County.

Everytime I see Dvija Michael Bertish, I jokingly evoke Wayne's World and do the "I'm not worthy....I'm not worthy" gesture. A more unassuming and humble activist you will never meet. However, he and his environmental group are bringing CC to its knees:

Jake Thomas of The Portland Observer interviews Mr. Bertish here:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 3, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am. My spouse is. Several of my neighbors are.

it will be a late night. :)

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I apologize in advance for being one-note Sally about this Benton thing. I'lll move on eventually. Just put me on ignore, if you prefer. :)

It is starting to get statewide attention, as it should. Here is a story by John Stang of Crosscut, my favorite online news source for WA State. It adds more information about conflict-of-interest:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 3, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Please continue being Sally, Manthou. Share those links! I love the state-wide attention. Maybe it will make one of them realize what idiocy they just pulled. Maybe it will stop Benton and he will do honorable thing.

Hm, maybe pigs will fly, yes?

luvithere — May 3, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @9:30 am...

I decided to check out the story by John Stang of Crosscut and of course, I wasn't surprised as to what I read. As far as I'm concerned, it's the same rhetoric...the same BS being funneled into the brains of those who are naive about everything Clark County and have been suckered into believing the Crossing Project in its current phase will be good for our ecomoney (yes, misspelled on purpose). You think I'm way off base??? Well then, manthou...let me fill you in on a little secret. The number one standout comment on Stang's story is this:

*"The feds will pay for most of the new bridge with Oregon and Washington each supposed to pony up $450 million. Oregon has allocated it share."*

The second standout:

*The anti-new-bridge arguments are that it would be too low for some boat traffic and Vancouver residents don't want to pay for light rail that would come with the new bridge.*

Slanted reporting. Will it ever end???

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Care to explain to me why the leadership in the Department of Environmental Services had so many problems before? Maybe looking back at just who it was that appointed the gentleman before Benton's appointment and why the guy left his position might give a good indication of problems in county government. Could it be that this shake up is an attempt scare away those who have been screwing around with the budget provided to them over the past...say...ten years with nothing to show for it but litigation at taxpayer expense???

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Columbian article states the US employers added 165,000 jobs in April. That's good news...but why is it any time we see these reports, they never have the statistics available by state...just a general number given. many of these jobs are for positions outside the country? How many jobs listed are ones which the people were furloughed or were temps returning after a short term lay off???

So how accurate are the numbers?

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh my! (George Takei voice)

As someone who used to work for the Clark County Government, I can tell you what Madore and whoever else it was that did the hiring process- they have the power and ability. It is a dog eat dog world in our local Government. The job was posted for quite sometime on their website.

Think of this: What is the difference between that and when the City Mayor lied about his takes on Light rail and bridge to get votes when he was elected?? I remember him saying he was against it. What about when Portland Mayor Sam Adams lied about his affair and the age of the guy, but he was still elected. It was revealed a few years down the road. Just something to think about. Things are going to happen and it sounds as if certain people were having temper tantrums because they were not hired. (Officials not people on here on the forum- maybe on the FB side LOL) Keep it classy Clark County.

I'll say this, I grew up in Clark County but I do not live in Clark County anymore because I see it falling apart (and my other half has a better job). No one will listen to each other. Instead it's someone else's fault. The moment things will change is when we own up to our issues that we have caused. Doesn't matter the political background, race, gender, or ethnicity. Take responsibility for your own actions. I sometimes wish I was still in Clark County- I miss the Saturday market at Esther short park, I miss walking the Kline line trail, and I miss seeing the roses at Orchards Park. :)

mxfun118 — May 3, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 3, 2013 at 3:34 p.m with how much you post on here, I wonder if you even have a job.

Where's andrecht when you need him??? Muah ha ha

mxfun118 — May 3, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some good advice from across the pond: News is bad for us. It causes aggression and worry. Stop consuming it:

[link text][1]


Off to a sunny First Friday stroll.....

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Hawk I am going to let Madore and company rest for the weekend.I have to work till noon tomorrow and than that 442 is going for a ride.Holyc enjoy the nice weekend.All the crooks will still be there on monday.You also Goldie have good weekend.

timerick — May 3, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, I am not sure how many problems we had with "the previous guy". I do know that we are fighting the state. Seems we are the only county who is unable or unwilling to do what the rest of the state does with the water runoff. Why is that? Smells.

It also seems that the prior director did not leave willingly but currently it is all hush hush as to the reasons. Smells.

It still boils down to the one fact: the 2 clowns going behind the third commish's back, initiating talks with Benton, and voila. He is hired. Smells. Big time.

It is also putting the fox in charge of the hen house. He got no idea about anything environmentally related. This is giving a crony a well paying job. Want to tell me there is not one qualified person out there? He is not.

Lastly: why are you defending this so strongly? Is it because you voted for him?

Don't get me wrong. A decision like this would get me ticked off no matter which political side was doing it.

Madore's transparency promise went into the ditch. He is playing games. Obviously it is his way or the the highway. There's some nice fallout heading our way.

Nice weather, Friday evening. I am out a while. All, enjoy the weekend.

luvithere — May 3, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Citizen Hearing On Disclosure: Pilots Testify To UFO Encounters (Live Updates Day 5)**

**UFO near-miss: Airliner about to land in Glasgow comes within 300ft of colliding with mystery object in sky**

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola @3:34 pm, you lost all credibility in your post when you stated "Concerning your constant whining."

Pot, meet kettle.

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 3, 2013 at 5 p.m.

You asked why I'm defending him so strongly...we're discussing an entire entity and the problems surrounding it, not just one person and the problem of cronyism stems much further than what people are quick to say, but if it fits their point of view to blame someone whose political affiliation or political views is different from theirs...they throw in the "crony" flag.

Isn't Uhmerika great!!!

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have to ask you, luvithere...

A job position is open for two weeks...nobody offering to take the position...nobody applying. A person with 25 years managerial experience and a bachelor's degree in management AND 25 years experience in political office to boot which matches most of the requirements, requests the position. He presents them with a cover letter and full resume' and was reviewed by the hiring personnel. His credentials all check out. It goes to a vote...2 to 1 and the hiring manager okays the applicant. So should the guy not get the job? this about the job position or is it due to the fact that the person getting the job happens to be of the same political affiliation of the two who suggested he get the position in the first place?

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 3, 2013 at 5:21 p.m.

I am conservative, but a career position should not be politically appointed, it is inappropriate, I would be outraged if the democrats had done the same thing so it would be hypocritical to accept it now. Politicians should not be eligible for these positions in the first place.

frobert — May 3, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Alien Invasion.

roger — May 3, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Gold, but there is no way nobody applied or the announcement was not public. And hiring is typically truly no tdoe the way this was done. Period.

He still has zero quals for the position. ZERO. A career politician who knows zero about the topic.

And I am still not sure why you defend him so strongly. As I said, this should have zero to do with affiliation, it's a smelly affair. No matter which side would do this. The two hired him for exactly the reason you asked about - he is one of them. That's all wrong, no matter how you look at it.

Or as Lew would say, as long as it riles the Libs, it is ok. Which shows you how utterly blind and silly that man really is.

And now really done and ready for weekend. The weeds are waiting (but not the 420 variety...)

luvithere — May 3, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Luvithere is correct. The job was never posted. Not once. No one applied because they could not. Madore was trying to get the job description changed (to fit Benton, it seems). The commissioners were SUPPOSED to be meeting with each other and their administrator, Barron, in two weeks to discuss the job posting and description.

Why do you think Barron and Stewart were so shocked Wednesday? They were blindsided by the backroom deal made between Madore, Mielke and Benton.

Many Republicans are angry about this.

These three stooges are going to be scrutinized like never before in their lives: the public, the media, the employees who are unfortunate enough to have to answer to them. They won't be able to scratch their behinds without it being evaluated and recorded.

It is a reporter's dream and a local newspaper's cash cow.

Quite possibly, it is Madore and Mielke's worse nightmare.

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Quite possibly, it is Madore and Mielke's worse nightmare.

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 7:19 p.m

We can only hope.

luvithere — May 3, 2013 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's important to to keep in mind how dangerous Benton could be to our environment. No doubt this hard core right winger state chairman of ALEC will treat his position as a corporate deregulating lobbyist.

ALEC's entire agenda is about conservative social radicalization, deregulation and corporate welfare. Their motto is..

"Limited Government · Free Markets · Federalism"

I haven't lived in this area as long as most who post here. So it's hard for me to understand why anyone who embraces this beautiful state, and all it has to offer, would be on board for Benton filling this position.

Madore/Mielke gave us all a double punch to the gut.

luvit- *Or as Lew would say, as long as it riles the Libs, it is ok. Which shows you how utterly blind and silly that man really is.*

Well stated. Why anyone lends this guy any credence beyond me. Although he does represent today's conservative movement quite well.

**ALEC’s Top Five Anti-Environment ‘Model’ Laws**

The American Legislative Exchange Council, a “stealth business lobbyist” that helps corporations write state and federal legislation supporting their interests, has taken major heat for backing controversial laws.

More than a dozen companies — including Coca Cola and Procter & Gamble — have pulled out of the organization over the last month due to ALEC’s support of voter ID requirements and the Stand-Your-Ground law blamed by many for the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin.

While the controversy around these laws has been widely reported, ALEC’s efforts to help corporate interests cut down climate legislation, renewable energy, and environmental protections are only now being heavily scrutinized. Funded by coal and oil companies, ALEC has made it a priority to stop any changes to the fossil-fueled status quo.
Below, we document the five of the worst anti-environmental initiatives being pushed by ALEC.

**Read more @**

And plenty of other sites detailing this ALEC Koch Bro funded RW extremist org.

The good side of this? People are waking up!

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.

"Stand-Your-Ground law blamed by many for the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin."

Zimmerman, did not request a hearing under Florida's "stand your ground" law, so what does it have to do with it? Stand your ground has absolutely nothing to do with Trayvon Martin's death, and Zimmerman's defense team was the first to admit it.

frobert — May 3, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok guys.Everybody has a opinion one way or the other.This is what makes us all different.It does no good to slam the other person because they look at things differently.Goldie and Holyc I see that you both come from different sides.But this is what makes things good.It does not make things good when you throw hate full discourse at each other.I don't agree with alot of the things that are said here or on the fb side.But we are all in this messed up life together.How ever things work out we still have to live with it.It may be good and mayby not.But that is what we have.I don't want to go off on a tangent,but I spent 2 years in Viet Nam in the late 60's.I thought that as a young 18 year old I was doing what was best for our country.It took several years to learn that it was a mistake.This may sound corny but I love this country and all the mistakes we make.Take a look around you,there have been alot of us that have given some and some have given all.The things that have been going on this week are not what most of us want.we can change it but we have to do it the right way.Holyc I know how you feel.You are intense in how you feel but look how the other person feels about what you say.Because they differ from what you feel does not make it bad.It is what make us all want what is best.Sorry but I enjoy the banter on this site but I don't like the hateful things that are said to each other.As I said I AM CORNY.

timerick — May 3, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is Dave a member of ALEC? Jaime and most of our top gun RW politico's are, (more than most states) while Benton is their leader, now able to gum up the works from the inside.

The sleeping "collective" has awakened! Awokened! Woken Up! Whatever...

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Stand-Your-Ground law blamed by many for the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin."

frobert — May 3, 2013 at 9:41 p.m.

Not sure of any point you're making, and certainly don't care to rehash the Martin thing.

You might send the website a message that you disagree with their statement detailing other's opinions.

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 3, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.

Well said. We need to take time out and smell the roses.

I know you weren't looking for a pat on the back, but thanks for your service, as well as your perspective.

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, lots being said about the King and his pawn, seems there are a few supporters, I have no idea why. I guess they don't mind someone without any credentials being hired on their dime. I'm sure it's not a big deal, so he tells the guys it's OK to spray the weeds with 245T, if it was good enough for Vietnam it should be good enough for us and anyway, he got it for a steal!

Last full day in Las loss Vegas for me, flying home tomorrow. Can't wait. Don't really like it here when it's hot and everything is some shade of redish brown. So weird. I'll take the green of the Pacific Northwest any day.

hawkeye — May 3, 2013 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks nail I was not looking for a pat on the back.I am looking more for some kind of even ground that we can all come together on.It might be a reach.Hawk I was there when they sprayed agent orange.I ran a land clearing squad and that is what we did after they sprayed.We went in and cleared out all the jungle so we could have a field of fire.No protective clothing of any kind.But that was many years ago.You know we do have some pretty good people here in this county.And we also have some that are not so good.I suppose that is what makes us want to be here.Hawk let me know when you want to come by and we can get a brew.I would like to meet you also.Nail and Drift and holyc,and Roger, you are all welcome to come.Goldie bring manthou along.I get a real sense from all of you that you really care about this great county we live in.Thanks to all of you.

timerick — May 3, 2013 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:57 p.m.

When you re-post partisan garbage, it is up to you to defend it.

frobert — May 4, 2013 at 5:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning Timerick, thanks for your perspective. Sometimes we need cooler heads here, so feel free to be "corny". As for everybody getting together in person, that might end up like that new Nokia ad where all the wedding guests start brawling! Hm, might be fun...

luvithere — May 4, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lust don't invite Lou and everything should be just fine. LOL

hawkeye — May 4, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

that should have been "Just" , I guess my fingers aren't awake yet.

hawkeye — May 4, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When you re-post partisan garbage, it is up to you to defend it.

frobert — May 4, 2013 at 5:41 a.m.

Odd. Again...

Not sure of any point you're making, and certainly don't care to rehash the Martin thing.

You might send the website a message that you disagree with their statement detailing other's opinions.

nailingit — May 3, 2013 at 9:57 p.m.

nailingit — May 4, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Well-said. I like discussing alternative points of view here in a civil manner. It broadens my perspective. Most of us have come to care enough about each other to be respectful. More than once someone's opinion has actually given me hope and calmed me down.
And, I might add, changed my mind.

Look, we're all simple people just trying to make our way in an increasingly complicated and scary world. The more we educate each other, the less likely we will be victims of government or media scams. Well, we might be victims, but we won't be complacent victims. :))

manthou — May 4, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Well, Nail, that is the level of frustration that politicians are creating in the citizens finances, livelihoods and mind.*

Sure is holy, and notice Mike Rogers didn't bat an eye. Imagine the frustration level in the White House having to deal with Congress Reps who push & tolerate this crap. Among hundreds of other items, Congress won't even bring up Job Bills for a vote, let alone pass anything.

And with this ridiculous sequestration? All the House has to do is repeal it. Period. And it's done.

People muddy the waters and spread the blame, but it's obvious which party is obstructing progress.

They will pay a price at the polls, just like this Madore guy.

nailingit — May 4, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was reading some of the FB comments on this Benton fuels anger thing. Man, these latest Madore shenanigans really brought people out of the woodwork! I thought this to be an exceptional comment.

Rachel Roberts · Washington State University

Madore sold himself to voters as a successful business owner, who when elected Commissioner would use his business expertise to run the County more effectively . Would Madore spend his own money to hire someone who is unqualified to manage 53 employees in his personal business, or is this something he only reserves for tax payer money?

Reply · 6 · · Yesterday at 8:34am

nailingit — May 4, 2013 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 3, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.

Because Benton is a senator, he's not qualified for the job? If that's so, then how is a city mayor qualified to be on C-Tran's board of directors? How can a member of the House of Representatives still be working as a drug and alcohol abuse counselor? How can a current member of the House of Representatives also be a board member on Affordable Community Environments as well as a board member for the Council for the Homeless of Clark County? Strike 2.

Now...regarding the rest of your *bull hockey* (to say it nicely) comment...I guess you didn't see my comments stating that if Mielke OR Madore did something which was considered illegal or violated any ethics rules...they need to be punished, even though the emotional outburst by Stuart is clearly a violation of Code of Ethical Conduct Principle #2. How more clear do I have to say it???

If you think I care what type of opinion you have of're absolutely off your rocker. If you think I intend to show up at the public carnival advertised by Stuart, you've lost your marbles. If you think the "people" will all have a say at that're looney. I'll gladly leave the "issue" in the hands of any committee who oversees ethics violations. I'm pretty sure there's been a slew of complaints already.

To say I am 100% wrong...

Well my fellow forum dweller, that would put you in the wrong as well. As I've said before...the facts will speak for themselves and the truth shall prevail. Any wrongdoing will not go unpunished.

We ***ALLLLLLL*** know how much you hate Commissioner Madore and have even before he became commissioner with everything you've said since your "Alleycat" moniker, so anything... no... EVERYTHING you say about the obviously prejudiced in nature due to your vendetta against the man. The majority of those who voted this last November, voted him in. I did not. So...if you're done with your little drama session...maybe you'll cease with your temper tantrum and let the adults discuss this in a more rational tone without innuendos and insult.

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 3, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. (and luvithere)

If it wasn't posted, then why could I find it on the "government jobs" website with no problem???

And is it just Madore and Mielke's worst nightmare or is it the people of Clark County's worst nightmare? We're not talking of the possibility of just M & M in violation, but Stuart as well. It looks bad for the people of Clark County...the people who voted the three into office, wouldn't you think? I'm more ashamed of the whole fiasco. If Stuart had kept his cool, rather than storming out...he could have easily used that to his favor and saw to it that a complete investigation be implemented.

You are aware that according to Clark County Civil Service rules, the person who is chosen for the position is put on a probationary period to "test" their abilities...right??? If he can't handle the position, he'll be released from his duties.

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 3, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.

Corny? Hardly. Sometimes people are blinded by such anger...such hatred for others...

that they cannot see the message some are sharing, even when the message they share is in ASKING others for facts to support the reasoning. Then...the passion for saying what you do say is lost in the trash talk...down into the abyss of lack of communication.

I'll tone it down, just because I now see (thanks to your words of wisdom) what a negative impact it has on others such as yourself, my friend. In fact...I will refrain from any further discussion regarding Madore/Mielke/Stuart with Holycrapola from hereon in.

And one more thing, Tim...

When you said *"I thought that as a young 18 year old I was doing what was best for our country. It took several years to learn that it was a mistake."*...

I have to say in response to you that at 18 years old, you went into Nam as an American who thought he was doing supporting our government and protecting the people of the United States. You my friend...are a hero, even IF the police action in VietNam was a mistake which cost far too many lives. And for your unselfish devotion to protect that which you truly thought was your homeland's best interests... I thank you.

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Look, we're all simple people just trying to make our way in an increasingly complicated and scary world. The more we educate each other, the less likely we will be victims of government or media scams. Well, we might be victims, but we won't be complacent victims. :))*

*manthou — May 4, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.*

Amen to that!!!

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

uhh ohh guess who?! I'm back!?!

do u no that politicians have other jobs other than being politicians?! Really Andrecht you don't say!!! r some of u that dumb? Well I guess people can't have jobs & be parents @ the same time or be in control of their own company but work beside their workers 2. Guess people can't try 2 better the environment because they work in politics. If you don't like the choice, then get off yo lazy backside, go for the position urself. Instead of "type yelling" at the screen names on here get out and do something about it. Start a petition , go door to door. Oh wait you might run into repubs or people that believe in right to bare arms. Don't want to scare you pansy dems now. Who cares, move on.

Mxfun118 well hello gorgeous I'm here!!

andrecht — May 4, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh oh...looks like sumbunny has been rubbin' elbows wit duh Gud Ol' Boyz Klub fer awhile...

Even Jeanne Stewart had the common sense to turn it down because of possible conflict of interest!!!

Good for you, Jeanne.

It's no wonder M & M are trying whatever they can to break the stronghold of the GOBK, even at the expense of the media frenzy!!! They've got a lot of 'splainin' to do.

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sorry andrecht...didn't mean to use the first liner like yours. At least it's spelt differnt! Now no pickin' on dem dar Ruhpublikans. Not all of 'em are packin' heat all the time, you know.

Oh good Lord...I can't write that way any more. Andrecht, you're making it sound like all Republicans are armed and ready for a shootout at the OK Corral!!! Now if they were packing water-filled super soakers this weekend...that would be a welcome greeting to some...8)

goldenoldie — May 4, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit; That is a great comment you posted from the FB side. Here is one that nails it, too, from a commenter named Slidezone at Crosscut:

"Party designation is irrelevant here, the action was unethical, and denial of that is disingenuous. Commissioner Stuart is justified in his outrage. While it is probably not against the law to hire an unqualified political hack for a highly sensitive public position (incompetence is not illegal), there are well established protocols for doing so. I hope Stuart continues his inquiries into violations of both Clark County hiring policy, and the Open Public Meetings Act.

Justifying a wrong act by asserting that others have acted similarly is like justifying Newtown by pointing at Columbine.

Commissioner Madore needs to understand that the public expects its government to perform to a higher ethical standard than private sector businesses."


Someone has filed an inquiry into the possible violation of the state's open public meetings act by Madore and Mielke when they discussed this job with Benton and asked him to submit his resume and the date he could start.

I am no lawyer, so I eagerly await news.....The public is not gonna roll over easily on this one and will look under every rock for a rat.

manthou — May 4, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let me pile on here and apologize in advance for doing so:

goldie, you have no trouble ranting about the CRC and claiming to hold any legislator who even gets close to supporting it accountable for its travesties. You do so with a vengeance like no other on here. We let you have at it. Ad nauseam.

Cut those of us here who feel similarly about this Benton "hire" a little collegial slack, would ya? It is huge news locally. It is huge news statewide. It is not over, as the troops are arming themselves for a battle.

And, in the end, if it is lost (as the CRC fight might), we'll survive. But I gotta tell you, this is an important issue, this Benton thing. You don't have to think so. Just be tolerant of others' need to vent about something that might not ring your chimes as much.

manthou — May 4, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola: About Lou calling numerous politicians "friends" and that he "likes" them. Craig Pridemore spanked him good for the convention here not long ago. And then his post was deleted.

Most of us see through it. He can't help himself, poor guy. Someone told him once that journalists worth their weight need to be annoying. :)

manthou — May 4, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy, you have to realize that the county contains lots of tea party followers. Misguided souls will ONLY vote the party without any thoughts. You then also have folks who are only interested in one topic, the CRC, and will blindly cheer the dudes running for office who express same anti-CRC feelings. Rest of issues gets ignored. Ergo the crop of Frick and Frack and incumbent Benton who only stayed in his seat after that recount. We are now seeing the results. Do you really expect such folks to go against Benton?

luvithere — May 4, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey it's good to be back home again!!!

Seems like there's a song in there someplace.

Reading some of the FB comments on Lou's latest, I'm of the opinion that anything Robert Stevens hates, I like. And conversely, everything he likes, I dislike. So if you guys ever want my opinion on something, just read his posts and I will be the opposite.

Now, if you have never been to Vegas, away from the strip, it's all shades of brown and kinda pink. Everything is stucco, inside and out and the yards match the walls that match the side of the roads that match the malls that match everything but the cactus and the astro-turf. There is no contrast and no seasons. The reason booze is cheap is to keep the people there.

hawkeye — May 4, 2013 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Erik Hidle's story today: superb investigative work!

Here we have a Director of Environmental Services, Kevin Gray, truly trying to hold employees accountable and ethical, and Mielke cuts him off at the knees. Why? Because he wants his buddies to continue to grow their personal business on the tax payer's time and dollar.

Why is this not surprising?

How do you think this department will be run with Don Benton at the helm?

I am glad that Kevin Gray is working now at a top-knotch managerial position with an international firm. According to his LinkedIn page, he is with HDR in Portland.

A West Point grad like Kevin Gray understands honor and integrity.

Don Benton and his pals Madore and Mielke don't seem to honor these concepts. As I have said, these three, as well as Stuart, will be scrutinized by the public and media like none of them have ever known before.

Don't forget the Clark County Commission meeting this Tuesday, 7 pm. It will be a barn burner.

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Welcome back, by the way. We missed your presence here.

We lived on the Canadian prairie for five years in the mid 1980's. You can better believe that affordable alcohol helped sweeten the -40 F (same as celsius at that temp) winters and snow-on-the-ground for seven months of the year.

The university paid professors a full 12 months salary for 7 months of teaching (they were supposed to be engaged in their research during the other 5 months): the only way they could import and retain brain power in that cruel climate. You could drive 6 hours in any direction and only see a couple of isolated farms here and there: Doctor Zhivago land.

Let's keep our precious home county green and lush and make sure Don Benton doesn't spray the whole place brown and dead with noxious weed killer. Because now he can.

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, good morning. I read the article also and have to admit: cronyism at its best. Mielke turns out to be even worse than I thought.
Now I still want to know why some people think our county and people are so abused with over regulations etc. coming out of the environmental office. The same people believe that Benton will clear all that up. What made us over regulated? Why is it that we are the only county that can't abide by rules for water runoff? When I look around I see pollution, filthy lakes, you name it.

Shouldn't people - especially those who tout their healthy living and eats - be in favor of a strong office that favors the environment, not the businesses and developers?

luvithere — May 5, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Yes. We all get to live here, this beautiful county. Protecting our environment and resources is important to maintain livability.

Mielke comes out the worse here: protecting his buddy who is growing his personal business on Clark County time. A buddy who votes for him. Madore came in late in the game, but he risks being tarnished by his recent joining forces with Mielke on the "hiring" of a guy who is clear about environmental de-regulation: he's all for it.

I laugh when Mielke and Madore claim they are good stewards of the public funds and resources.

Anyone who cares about the health of our water, our food supply, should be in mourning at the loss of Kevin Gray and the "gain" of his successor, Don Benton.

We will see such outrage at this, a coming-together of Republican and Democrat, that I expect to see a serious recall effort of Mielke, at least. Madore has time to re-consider his future path.

Remember, Mielke only won by less than 300 votes last time. (Benton only won by 74).

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One more thing: The hypocrisy of Madore and Mielke, standing in prayer, hands on each other's dirty shoulders.............what an image. Cannot clean it from my sad heart and mind.

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Recall, Manthou? Sign me up!
You would also think the public outcry over this would make them rethink this position. If Benton had any class, he would not take the job.
Oh wait! A golden opportunity to collect more money even, to advance his anti-environmental stance. What was I thinking??

luvithere — May 5, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Great piece Erik Hidle! Stunning to read of such outright corruption in our little corner of the world.

No wonder Madore wanted the job.

Can I deliver the opening prayer for Tuesday's meeting?


nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I am all for a recall, too. Mielke will be easy to unseat. I'd like to clean the entire house (Stuart is dismayed at the Columbian "sniffing" around, as evident in the audio), but realize we need to start with the dirtiest shirt in the laundry first.

This is one reason we need 5 Commissioners in Clark County. Better checks and balances.

roger: I saw that article in The Oregonian, too. Political appointments abound. That does not make it right, especially when the appointee has absolutely no experience (think Brownie and FEMA).

Maybe this practice will be halted, based on the recent publicity. I would like to see The Columbian take a similar look at all political appointments in Clark County: which administrators circumvented the hiring process in place? How many do we have? We can keep these reporters fully-employed for years on this case. :)

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: If you get time today, put on your author's hat and post what your prayer would look like. :)

Pretty please?

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*One more thing: The hypocrisy of Madore and Meilke, standing in prayer, hands on each other's dirty shoulders.............what an image. Cannot clean it from my sad heart and mind.*

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.

manthou, you have a much better handle on local politics than I or anyone else who posts here. (You're the one who should start your own blog!)

What do you think the chances of a successful Meilke recall effort would be? What needs to happen procedurally and on the ground?

I think many would get involved in a meaningful recall effort.

I'm concerned nothing will change. That we will continue to see these dirty politicians hands mocking what many believe to be an act of reverence and contrition.

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys, I read that story as well and have actually had some dealings with the environmental weed control guys. They came out to my place to help us with the Japanese knotweed removal. For the most part, they sprayed the stuff but for the weed that was mixed in with other vegetation, they gave me a "gun" to use to inject the weed at it's base. I'm assuming it was the gun that guy invented. It worked really well and we haven't seen any weeds return. The guy that helped us was really professional and went out of his way to make sure we got all of it including helping with some of the spraying. I have no complaints with the environmental services and if the gun he invented was the best tool (and he would know) for the job then the County should have bought it as long as the inventor wasn't the purchaser.

As for the politics of the County, I often wonder if there isn't too many different standards we subject to. Mielke protecting his butt and his buddies, Gray, trying to do a good job but getting stabbed in the back by someone not even his boss, Barron, thinking he was doing his job just fine but getting the shaft. It all sounds like a Sunday night movie on the Lifetime channel.

hawkeye — May 5, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 9:37 a.m.

Man, I am so glad you asked that! :)

Will do. I have to run a couple of errands first, than meditate. I take this prayer stuff seriously.

I was going to suggest we all give this a go. What would our prayer to God/Gods be about this Frick n' Frack situation?

Would it involve more than a recall? A reassignment perhaps? Overseeing County jail detainee work crews spraying noxious weeds?

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: If nothing changes, then we have only ourselves to blame. I do think Boldt lost because so many Democrats would rather die than vote for a Republican. I voted for him because the alternative was what we have now. We need to support the person, not the party.

I do not know what it takes to start a recall effort for a Clark County Commissioner yet. But there are folks I know who are looking into it with their supporting group growing in numbers daily. I will post links to the information when it materializes.

It ain't easy. I do know that.

The good news: Mielke and Stuart are up for re-election in 2014, I believe.

The other positive: These clowns, all of them, will be under a microscope like no other time in their political careers. David Madore is not used to being a public figure and has and will falter.

What will save this County right now and repair the harm to reputation and morale?

Benton should withdraw his acceptance of the job and agree to submit to the full integrity of the Clark County hiring process in place.

If that does not happen, then Mielke and Madore, M & M, Frick 'n Frack, should withdraw their appointment and start over, reviewing Benton's application with any other interested parties.

That is what I have written and asked them all to do. That is what I will be asking them at the meeting on Tuesday.

How they respond will give me good information about their true motives.

It does not take much to send an email, even if you cannot come to the meeting. :)

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You are right Manthou, we can all send an email. I think I will do so today.
This all will lead to great public scrutiny, the way it is supposed to be. Please keep us posted with regards to any recall efforts, here is a supportive household.
And why do we not have more than three commish? The number itself, 3, really lends itself to abuse from one side, no matter which side.
County level elections need to be partisan-free, for good of county only. Your political party affiliation must take a step back. It might drive your decisions, and that is fine. But you need to put the local job first.

I really, really would love to see how many have now regretted their decision to vote for frick or frack. Should have kept Boldt, he at least understood that one has to work across the isle.

luvithere — May 5, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've made it clear I don't like what went down with this environmental job fiasco, but I suspect a little digging could turn up similar appointments here that no one reported or complained about. Perhaps it's a couple of the main players that's elicited such an outcry this time?

As for Portland, read this article from today. Even though Hales ran Miller off, it seems noncompetitive appointments, or just internal job announcements, remains the rule for their senior administrative positions.

roger — May 5, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Stuart is up for reelection in 2014. Mielke was just reelected - he's there (along with Madore) until 2016.

roger — May 5, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes, roger. You are so correct. All the more reason to file a zealous recall effort in Mielke's case.

I agree with you on that idea: let's dig into the Clark County administrative appointments like the Oregonian did in PDX. How many of them circumvented the hiring process procedures?

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So is this what DM meant by "opening the floodgates?" I suspect the flood will be going AWAY from Clark County if this kind of thing becomes the norm. Mielke and Madore are going to make this a no business zone with their mismanagement of the County and their stupid mistakes. I mean really, who would want to be in business here with these two clowns running everything. They should be ashamed of themselves.

hawkeye — May 5, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I am noticing that so many of the usual naysayer suspects are rather quiet on the FB side today. Well, Carolyn Crain, bless her heart, chimed in and blamed the Columbian for "hiding" this information from us for years. What? They were on it as soon as they found out about it. Carolyn needs to invest in a professional hair cut and work on her snarky delivery before anyone will take her seriously. Poor thing, her writing was so disjointed that it resembled word salad, she is that shaken up.

All joking aside, this is traumatic for the entire community and we need to rally around the issue, not make excuses or point blame at others. I really don't know when I have been so worked up. We need to absolutely refuse to accept this kind of behavior. We need to retain ethical administrators like Kevin Gray who have the courage to keep folks in line and hold their bosses accountable. He sacrificed his job doing so. But I have a feeling he is better off at HDR, when all is said and done.

I want my tax dollars going to the likes of Kevin Gray. Don Benton, however, can go scrub toilets for a living in the public sector, if he can find someone foolish enough to hire him. He can take all three commissioners with him, because even Steve Stuart was in protect-my-own mode for this Kevin Gray thing.

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Vancouver City Council has been remarkably quiet on the hiring issue. You'd think Leavitt and a couple of others would jump at the chance to go after Benton and the boys from County. Makes me think maybe they don't want attention drawn their way?

roger — May 5, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*nailingit: If you get time today, put on your author's hat and post what your prayer would look like. :)*

*Pretty please?*

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 9:37 a.m.

manthou, for better or for worse...

I would begin our Clark County Commiss Meeting with...


Yeah. I'm talkin' MoTab...nothin' but the best.

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 4, 2013 at 6:37 p.m.

I'm not going to take personal anything you have said in your "venting" at me. In fact, I'm going to respect Timerick's post on May 3, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. and will not play into the "emotions" game with you.

I have presented facts...backed up by links to help everyone which are clearly in line with the facts I presented INCLUDING the fact that the job Mr. Benton has accepted was INDEED posted online. I have provided questions which you refused to answer. It is clear to me that there's a lot of judgment by emotion rather than judgment by facts presented.

Regarding the CRC or any politically-motivated project anywhere in the USA...whenever I witness the FACT that a politician is manipulating the misinformed in order to gain support for his OR her pet project, I have no problem saying it like it is...even if it's putting a politician in the hot seat. It's called an opinion, manthou...and if I'm correct, this is a forum FOR opinions shared...NOT a place to head up personal attacks against one another, even though there's been plenty of that lately.

So if you have that much of a problem with what I have to say, then by all means...utilize the gray bar because nobody is going to force me to refrain from speaking my mind...even you.

*A closed mind is like a closed book. Just a block of wood.*
-Chinese Proverb

goldenoldie — May 5, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OPENING INVOCATION..........................nailingit


[a moment of silence; to honor the world's first avatar to open a public meeting]


Our David which art in Vantucky, Hallowed by thy shame.

Thy kingdom has come, Thy will, will be undone, for tempers rise as if in leaven.

As thou giveth us our daily dread, allow us hounds to whine, whilst your crony's are well fed.

And lead us no longer into stagnation, but deliver us light rail: For thine is the County, the Church, and the oligarchy for ever. Amen

P.S. This means you to Milquetoast Meilke!

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - The mangy puppy dog is back on facebook, carrying on and calling people gun thugs. Maybe it's Be Kind to Animals Week; Think a squirrel could get some love from Lou?

I had to laugh about your description of Vegas. Sounded like Phoenix, except we didn't bother with the astroturf in the common folk neighborhoods - just went with that red lava rock. Some of the older neighborhoods downtown tried to grow real grass by flooding the lawns (irrigation, it was called). I figured there was a correlation between this practice and roach infestation - stayed away from it. Bet they have to spray their astroturf to keep the scorpions away.

roger — May 5, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.

How can anyone NOT laugh at your post. Clever twist of words, nails...


goldenoldie — May 5, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sigh - The facebook crowd is so fickle, and fame is fleeting. Used to be I could talk about picking my nose and I'd get "Liked" by the multitudes. Why, there were days when I'd be almost at the same level of popularity as Lew Waters. But then I had to listen to the audio from the County meeting, and then open my big yap and agree that what M&M; did stunk. (It's all your fault, Manthou!!!) (Or is it stank? Whatever.) So now I'm like a pariah dog, ignored by most and thrown an occasional scrap to keep my spirits up. Mike Briggs notes I'm a good citizen blinded by my hatred of the CRC - and then moves on and ignores me. Even that clown of clowns Mike "Don't call me Yancey" now feels free to punk me out. Oh well - What to do? Why - A song!!!

roger — May 5, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: You are always treated respectfully here, so post away. Those FB comments are drive-by verbal shoot outs anyway.

nailingit: Bravo! I wish I had the nerve to demand to read that during the invocation Tuesday! Funny! I need to laugh because I am so worked up.

Folks, as if The Columbian could not outdo themselves today, they posted a boat load of documents to supplement what they did this morning. I am hunkering down, readying myself for Tuesday. We only have 3 minutes each, but I expect there will be so many wanting to speak, this meeting will last til midnight.

The county tried to cover their butts by making the settlement details with Kevin Gray nondisclosable. What smart foxes they are. Why wouldn't Bill Barron fight like hell for an employee like that?

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 5, 2013 at 3:44 p.m

Lou told the squirrel to come back in 6 months and maybe talk to Hill. The response was "pass". It appears that he doesn't mind if he looses a few readers, no sweat off his brow, I guess. Seems you are going to have to go it alone. Unless you can get HC to sign up.........HaHaHaHaHa, I crack myself up!!!

hawkeye — May 5, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks goldenoldie & manthou. An avatar can only dream...

I'd rather laugh than cry at this stuff.

I might make it Tuesday though. I haven't been involved with local politics as I'd like to be.

(Almost sounds like a death wish).

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Love him or hate him, you have to give Jim props for putting it out there. I wish more politicians were this candid.

Keep on keeping on Rep Moeller!

**Jim Moeller** · Top Commenter

WOW! Clearly, none of you (Terrence, Dennis, Mark, Greg, George, Lance, Roger, Dan, Jeffery, Allen, Mike and Lew) know what you're talking about! Armchair engineers who sit back and critic a project that hundreds of your NEIGHBORS have spent a good portion of their lives (and we have ALL spent our money) dealing with. You're a bunch of egotistical, self-righteous, whiners who think you can force a partner like Oregon or the Federal government to do your bidding - build a 3rd bridge, remove light-rail or add a lift section. No one has ever thought of a 3rd bridge?? Never thought of a by-pass?? Never thought of BRT?? How about a lift section on the bridge?? All of your "suggestions" are because you're "smarter" than the average bear??!! Since it's Sunday, I would say you're "mistaken".

Reply · · 2 hours ago

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Clark County could erase the debt by simply asking for voluntary donations at the door on Tuesday. :)

It will be SRO. Maybe limited due to fire regs.

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 5, 2013 at 6:56 p.m.

It's sad to say but the truth is...when the current LPA was chosen, all the facts weren't presented to the "hundreds" of carefully-selected "neighbors" who made the decision including minimal bridge height, funding for other bridge repairs and river restorations. For that matter, certain facts were distorted when the people promoting the CRC had put in their original request to the feds as well. All this would be a non-discussion if only the voters would've had the final say in the first place...and we all know who did his darnedest to prevent that now, don't we. So now...all we can do is wait and see what the official audit will find and what will be done (if anything) about it.

As for Representative Moeller....yeah, he's quite candid in his discussions on the Facebook side of the C...but it just might nip him where it counts at his next time at bat for re-election.

goldenoldie — May 5, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 5, 2013 at 7:36 p.m.

Good idea...especially considering the people in opposition will be there en force...the same people who don't mind being taxed to oblivion.

*Give generously!!!*

goldenoldie — May 5, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Why thank you, Nails, for letting me know what Jimmy had to say. Totally out of character for him - That was a rant, pure and simple. Either the boy has had a few too many, or he's getting some news from up north saying a few from his side are ready to dump the CRC to get the Senate to support some of their other projects. Wow - What a day for me!!! Here I was doing my best Dangerfield impersonation a few hours ago, and now I'm one of the egotistical know it all crowd!!!

Jim like show tunes. Here's one for him.

roger — May 5, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, don't you know...

he knows ALL about each and every one of us. He's a mind reader and knows if anybody even scratches their nose the wrong way...he'll find some way to use it against them. Shame on you for providing facts and opinions which clashes with his!

Naughty, naughty. Now you're flagged as a member of the egotistical, self-righteo....

*WAIT A GOSH-DARNED Second, here!* Roger, why would *YOU* be on that list??? I believe someone was reading his own bio when he posted *THAT* comment!!!

goldenoldie — May 5, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - You might want to have a 2 minute version ready - I'm not certain where I read it, but I'm pretty sure I saw that this was the time limit. I figure people are all going to say variations of the same thing, so there won't be much real listening going on anyhow. I'm figuring you'd have more impact with a minute or less talk - properly choreographed. Dig out the school marm glasses, put your hair back in a bun, and walk up there all stern and purposeful - no notes in hand - and tell them how truly disappointed you are to see two grown men, leaders in the community, resort to the petty little games that most of your students outgrew by the time they made it to high school. But it looks like Tommy and Davy weren't paying attention to their teachers when getting taught how to work with others - and now we get to see them play the self righteous "Who, me?" game more appropriate for a 10 year old. (Hey - A little help with fine tuning this will be appreciated.) Not sure if you could get away with this, but have one of those wooden rulers the nuns all liked - smack it down on the table (or rostrum) when done speaking and turn, stalk HAUGHTILY off. (Not angrily - Deb Peterson uses that one.) I'm betting you can carry this off and earn a standing O (but please don't ruin the effect by stopping and bowing, waving to the crowd).

roger — May 5, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: You crack me up! Here i am, early riser today because I am needing to get rolling on a quick consulting job in PDX this morning and want to beat that fun traffic on my favorite historic bridge. Your good and witty advice first thing to greet me: a good start.

Short and sweet. Respectful. No bun and glasses, although I like the naughty librarian look over the stern nun. :)

I guarantee the content of my concerns will be different from others, but the theme pretty much the same. You are so right, none of them will be listening. They never really do. I fully expect Tom Mielke to be "sick""and absent.

Tomorrow at the Clark County Service Center, folks. Show starts at 6 pm, so get there early (parking will be a b*tch). All opinions will be welcome because this is what we do in our country.

Let's hold these guys accountable.

Whether you agree with their gifting of Don Benton this "part time" full time job or not, you need to monitor the politicians who serve at YOUR pleasure. Otherwise, they will surely sneak something by, counting on your generous and trusting complacency. Eventually, they will disappoint. Sometimes, they actually break the law.

nailingit: All politics is local. It starts here. :)

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 4:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Manthou, I wasn't thinking of the naughty librarian look, but it certainly does have its possibilities. I'm sure Davy and Tommy would give you their full attention.

I205/I84 used to be the better way to get to downtown PDX. Getting off I205 at Killingsworth and running out Lombard to the I5 works until about 0630. Nowadays, there is no good route.

roger — May 6, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - I do believe Jim Moeller is quite cross with me. I wonder if this has something to do with him standing on a bucket up to his neck in his own barnyard excrement?

Nails - Thanks again for mentioning Jim's rant yesterday evening. I probably would have missed it.

roger — May 6, 2013 at 5:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @5:34 am...

Representative Jim Moeller is quite cross with anybody who opposes his pet project. Doesn't he realize yet that the people cannot and will not be forced on to Loo Rail and that a straight-across replacement bridge and an effective reconstruction of ramps...a design which doesn't require a lift all that is needed in this section of the corridor, and even if 20 lanes were built in each direction...there would still be gridlock? Doesn't he realize that a bridge without Loo Rail would be a bridge the majority of the people would agree to and would be less hesitant to pay with tolls??? Is he so arrogant that he cannot see past his pet project design???


He's not the only one, either. It's on both sides of the ticket. Our government is so divided, it's pitiful...and it's dividing the people as well.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nails - Thanks again for mentioning Jim's rant yesterday evening. I probably would have missed it.*

roger — May 6, 2013 at 5:34 a.m

You are more than welcome sir roger, although your response to Rep Moeller seemed a bit out of character. This electric train issue really has folks riled up!

nailingit — May 6, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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