Open forum, Aug 5-11



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Has everyone turned in their ballots?

Hope so.

Greg Kimsey predicts that Clark County will see less than 20% (yep) of the ballots returned.

Why don't people vote?

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mine only saw the inside of my house for 1 day. Even though I only had one to vote on, fire chief for CC. Still, one vote is one vote.

hawkeye — August 5, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No elections for unincorporated Orchards.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vancouver's ballot was fuller, for sure. The city council races are important and three incumbents are being challenged by some promising opponents.

According to Greg Kimsey, the primary ballots are going to be long and loaded for November's election and the state voter's pamphlet will be one of the thickest we have seen in recent history. That could be a minus, too, though. Some people take a look at it and are instantly overwhelmed.

Hey, it's hard work, this active citizenship stuff....

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll be blocking out the boxes and stuffing the envelope this morning. I received a response to my email enquiry from all but two of the candidates I questioned. I figured I'd give them every opportunity to respond.

Those two individuals are now crossed out on my voters' pamphlet. A negative response wasn't necessarily a disqualifier. Failure to respond however...

Drift — August 5, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Would you be willing to expand? Who were the candidates who did not respond to your questions?

It is very revealing to me when a politician or politician hopeful avoids controversial topics by simply ignoring.

I have already voted, but the information you share might be valuable for the November election.

Reminder all: the three CC Commissioners are hearing public feedback today at 10 am on the wording of those 6 advisory votes. Just the wording, mind you: not the merits of each question or which question is better.

The questions are a nightmare word salad, in my opinion. A chimp could have done better with a typewriter.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I voted for nailingit for Minister of Propaganda.

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou -

RE: The wording of the advisory votes. That's OK - I suspect most people won't understand anything that isn't presented in texting language with LOL and whatnot interspersed throughout.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, I didn't query the incumbents. I'm well aware of how each voted on zoning cannabis collective gardens. Also, I crossed two candidates off right at the get-go after going to their websites.

Of the remaining, I received no response from Micheline Doan and Frank Decker.

Of the responders I kicked one to the curb. The individual stated they intended to drop the City Attorney's office a line asking if he (they) felt they had jurisdiction in the matter.

I know I previously stated a negative response wasn't cause for rejection, but in my mind the response was circular reasoning (sorta). Do you really think the City is going to say the regulations amount to an ultra vires act? Sheesh.

I don't care to offer too much info. I'm rather weird when it comes to my voting. The Mrs. doesn't even know (for sure) how I've voted in _any_ election. ;^)

Drift — August 5, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Displaced anxiety can go a long way..or not.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm seeing red so my ticket is blue.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: I get it. Voting preference is personal.

Watching the public comment for the advisory votes now. So far, people are speaking their mind about the issue and not the way the advisory votes are worded, as is the purpose of this hearing.


manthou — August 5, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.

Something about the word "Minister", rubs me the wrong way.

Purveyor Of Propaganda, or POP, works nicely.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And POP is a segue into the phrase” pop culture”, which seems to be the basis of your thinking, so you’ve made a nice observation there. Well done.

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your catchy little campaign slogan henceforth should be: I put the POP in pop culture!

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You're welcome.

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good Lord. Nearly 50 minutes into public testimony and NO ONE gets what the purpose of this public testimony is today.

Wait. Here comes Anne McEnerny-Ogle: Yes! She mentions the wording discrepancy! Squishy language, she says!

This is why we need her on the City Council....

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

I switched to CVTV just in time to see witness this Peterson gal rail against funding for BRT. (She's scary. What's with the wife beater dress?)

I am now turning away. Too many wannabe civil engineers.

What these folks have against public transportation I don't know, other than it seems to be marching with party line in D.C. to defund transportation needs.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Perhaps the most troubling revelation to date about domestic spying. It's worth a couple minutes of your time.

///DEA Special Operations Division Covers Up Surveillance Used To Investigate Americans: Report///

WASHINGTON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.


A former federal agent in the northeastern United States who received such tips from SOD described the process. "You'd be told only, 'Be at a certain truck stop at a certain time and look for a certain vehicle.' And so we'd alert the state police to find an excuse to stop that vehicle, and then have a drug dog search it," the agent said.


After an arrest was made, agents then pretended that their investigation began with the traffic stop, not with the SOD tip, the former agent said. The training document reviewed by Reuters refers to this process as "parallel construction."

Read more @

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You all have to watch the CC Commish deliberations on these advisory votes.


Reminds me of Who's on First?

[link text][1]


manthou — August 5, 2013 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I don't think that they are against BRT.I think they are against they way it is configured for 4th Plain.4th Plain would lose the ability to make left turns.Business's think this will hurt them.Most feel that adding a couple of more bus's to the route at peak times would solve the situation with out the added expense of BRT platforms and new articulated bus's.Even some of the riders are unhappy because they would lose bus stops at the stores they want to shop at.A lot of those using the 4th plain route are elderly and or disabled.I don't know what the answer is but it needs more thought I think.

timerick — August 5, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Without going back to check, I believe you also used the term 'squishy language' a few days ago. That's a bit unusual. Perhaps you took the time to air your concerns to Anne, and she liked it enough to use it herself? Hmmm????

roger — August 5, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Check the article on who's filed for freeholder positions so far. Districts 1 and 3 are mostly all familiar names. I don't think I recognize those from District 2.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I went back and checked (please do) and I never used the word "squishy." I have not talked to Anne Ogle in over a month when I ran into her at the 4th celebration at the Fort.

Great minds think alike, however. :)))

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was surprised to see so many sitting legislators running for freeholder. This is a hot, desired seat in Clark County this year, apparently.

Go Temple Lentz! We need some humor in this Kafka-esque process.

Cannot wait to read The C's story on this never-ending hearing at the BOCC today.

Mielke just asked, "What are we working on?"

Says it all.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Creating a Grover Norquist pledge Clark County style?

langenthal — August 5, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

High capacity rapid transit must be convenient and as fast, if not faster, than driving in my car if I'm going to use it to travel to/from work. On those trips I'm on a time crunch, and don't have the time to dawdle along waiting for people to count out the fare, aske where the bus goes, and a few other assorted slowdowns. With BRT as planned, it will replace the current buses and that's what we'll have.

BRT sharing the same road as the rest of the traffic makes no sense. Does someone actually think the buses will be unimpeded on their trip along 4th Plain? If anything, the extra length will make the trip longer than what it takes now for the 4 and 44. All they're designing is something with more capacity, which is rarely a problem now. As timerick notes, adding an extra regular bus run or two during rush hour would be doable - maybe up the 44 to the same 4 runs per hour the 4 makes when most needed.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- I referred to the Debster who harped about paying higher taxes rather than offering a solution. There is a Republican agenda to block spending in this area. Why just the other day..

///Senate Republicans block $54 billion transport spending bill///

Congress leaves Washington this week for a five-week vacation; the battle will be rejoined in the fall.

Cuts in the House transportation measure were made deeper by a Republican move to cut an additional $40 billion-plus from domestic programs and transfer the money to the Pentagon. That left the transportation measure $10 billion, or about 18 percent, below the Senate’s bill.

Rogers, who often is cautious in his public statements, issued an unusually harsh blast, saying halting debate on the measure reflected a failure of Republicans to follow up on their promises to cut spending with binding legislation.

“With this action, the House has declined to proceed on the implementation of the very budget it adopted just three months ago,” Rogers said. He said the failed transportation and housing measure was the first major attempt by Republicans to pass an appropriations bill at levels consistent with the sequestration cuts and that the failure of the bill meant it was time for a new approach.

“The House, Senate and White House must come together as soon as possible on a comprehensive compromise that repeals sequestration, takes the nation off this lurching path from fiscal crisis to fiscal crisis, reduces our deficits and debt, and provides a realistic topline discretionary spending level to fund the government in a responsible — and attainable — way,” Rogers said.


“The collapse of the partisan transportation and housing bill in the House proves that their sequestration-on-steroids bills are unworkable, and that we are going to need a bipartisan deal to replace sequestration,” said Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., chief author of the Senate bill. “And while we work toward that, we should pass the bipartisan Senate transportation and housing bill and show our constituents that we are putting them and their communities above partisanship and political games.”

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I went back and checked (please do) and I never used the word "squishy." manthou — August 5, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.

Googled 'squishy language' and found it's a recognized phrase, used in how language is analyzed as part of psychological impacts, and also in 'training' artifical intelligence as part of language development, interaction, and comprehension, etc. Found the phrase in a book on Amazon called 'Natural Language Parsing Systems'.

So, now you have it, both you and Anne may be advanced life forms...

jacjak — August 5, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: Very clever. I needed that laugh.:) Because.....

the commissioners are STILL wrangling. And I am transfixed by the process. It is a wonder to behold.

I'd love to see what a good psychologist would diagnosis with this group interaction.

We are in trouble, folks. Madore thinks he needs to solve all the problems right now. Today. Perfectly. His way.

This is a fantasy exercise.

Big sigh from Lori Volkman, the attorney. She'll be looking elsewhere soon.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail you make some very good points.Sequestration has not worked and is not going to.I don't think austerity will work either.Our roads are in horrible shape along with our bridges.It is not just here in Washington it is all over.As you probably have seen from my posts I am not a big fan of tax's.But it is tax's that pay for everything we use.My biggest grip has always been the amount of money we piss off on needless things and the amount we send to countries that hate us.If we used that money me might not be in the situation we are in.I would not be opposed to higher gas tax's if the money went where it is supposed to go.But all our elected ones seem to find other ways and places to spend it.When things get tight like we have had for the last few years we need to spend better.If you only have 10 dollars coming in you can't spend 20.

timerick — August 5, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - OK. Maybe I got confused and was thinking of a squishy video. Question - Does this little girl explain any better than the people at that meeting?

Oh - And was the squishy language removed?

roger — August 5, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: About the "toll-free" qualifier on the East side bridge option:

Steve Stuart did a good job of explaining why that should not be included on only one option and that it should be dropped or included on all.

The commissioners had quite the discussion and then agreed to add "toll-free" to all three bridge option choices.

If you have a free week, you can listen to their ad nauseam deliberations on video.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sheez, roger: Our comments came in at the same time.

See that, nailingit? We're outta sync. :(

The squishy kid: so cute.

About the squishy language: Lori Volkman (I feel like sending her flowers after today), the deputy prosecuting attorney assigned to this circus of the absurd, did a good job of honing the language. She also says she has the power to fine tune it all on her own, without changing the meaning.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I will be quite happy to accept your running commentary on the meeting. I listened to the one where Stuart cussed the boys out over something a while back. That was enough for me.

So, what do you think about the Wash Post selling to Bezos? I think they were about the last of the family owned papers. The deal with Bezos is no one is entirely sure of his politics. The articles all say he supports gay marriage and internet sales taxes. (Interject that he sounds like a Democrat here.) Beyond that, no one really knows - or is saying. Anyhow, hopefully he doesn't push them in any particular direction - they seemed to be fairly down the middle on most issues.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy, you are from another planet. I learned a long time ago that most of these positions just switch hands. You have to be someone to make it onto a commission or board, etc.; awrong in my opinion but seems to be how they keep it in the family. Look who is running for freeholders.

luvithere — August 5, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sad day, Dutch Savage has passed away at the ripe old age of 78 from heart problems. He was a very cool guy, gave lots to the community.

hawkeye — August 5, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Leonard Pitts referenced the same Bloomberg article about McDonald's pay in today's column that I linked to yesterday. he managed to leave out a few pertinent details about the gentleman he was referring to, and I was happy to add them. Geez - everyone (except Del Greening) was so quick to assume the only reason anyone was a burger flipper after 20 years was because they were a dropout junkie or something.

roger — August 5, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 6:36: I mentioned earlier today how surprised (and disappointed) that so many sitting legislators are running for freeholder. I thought it would be just us ordinary peasants. Shows me that they are jockeying for power at the hyperlocal level, too. I'd love to see the likes of Sunrise O'Mahoney (love her name) and Temple Lentz get a chance.

roger @ 6:02 PM: The media world is getting all misty-eyed with the WAPO sale to a Seattle mega mogul. The newspaper world is turning upside down lately with laying off staff, photographers, and new owner jitters. Bezos does not run his warehouses like a Democrat, though. Just ask The Seattle Times....Glad the Columbian seems healthy.

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And now a bit of fun for us this nice evening.

Why did the dinosaurs go extinct? Answers in Genesis doesn’t say, but the Creationist group is sure of one thing: the giant reptiles were on Noah’s Ark.In a 60-second radio ad released Monday, Answers in Genesis President Ken Ham lamented that dinosaurs had been used to “indoctrinate children” to believe in the theory of evolution.He said dinosaurs could not have existed before humans because the Bible clear stated all land animals and humans were created on the same day “about 6,000 years ago.” There was nothing mysterious about dinosaurs for those who understood the Bible, Ham concluded.

But were did dinosaurs go if they were created a mere 6,000 years ago? For that, you apparently have to visit the Creation Museum in Kentucky.
Listen to the ad in nice KY twang.;=player_embedded

luvithere — August 5, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc I never thought I could agree with you but I find myself doing so.This freeholders thing is nothing but a joke.I think the joke will be on us one more time.Corrupt,all of them.And I had faith in Kimsey and Stuart.Wrong again.

timerick — August 5, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Hawkeye Dutch was a very nice man.I used to Steelhead fish with him back in the 70's.He lived a few block from me.Also a good customer for several years.

timerick — August 5, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey HC, maybe YOU should run for freeholder. Oh, I forgot! YOU DON'T FRIGGIN' LIVE HERE! Why don't you post on the Oregonlive site, it's closer to home.

hawkeye — August 5, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye be nice.

timerick — August 5, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, tim, you're right. HC, Go ahead and run for freeloader, you deserve it.

hawkeye — August 5, 2013 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, guess I spelled that wrong. Wait, no I didn't, nevermind.

hawkeye — August 5, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll catch up on this afternoon's basement comments in the morning, with coffee, as is my wont, but I thought I'd offer the following before retiring to my periodical and snacks. Tonight it will be _The Week_ and dill pickles.

Ty Stober stopped in and shot the breeze for around twenty minutes this late afternoon. I was sitting across the street in the neighbor's front yard telling lies - or would that be embellished stories? I watched him go to my door and knock. I was thinking, 'No, man, I don't want any,' and then I recognized him from the photos.

"Hey, Ty!"

He came over and pulled up a cheese-ass plastic chair and engaged in conversating*. He's a very personable young man. I did have the feeling he was tiptoeing a bit though. Even still, there's no doubt he leans toward the, "Build it and they will come," sort of attitude. I'll not offer my opinion there.

There's no question he's passionate in his efforts. I will tell you that. Regardless of whether I agree with his opinions, I find his passion admirable. Well, that he has enough passion to come out and attempt to do 'something,' _that_ I must give him kudos for.

I just thought I'd mention it before flipping pages and slopping vinegar.

Off to my rack,

*sure it is. I just wrote it ;^)

Drift — August 5, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nobody cares about pro wrestling. The thing is phony as can be, but can be fun. Like reading the National Enquirer for kicks. All of you who depend on your “Think Progress” should understand this well.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Reflector did a story on Dutch years ago about his alcholism. A gallon of wine a day or some such thing. And how he finally got past this. Good for him. I hope so. Absolutley.

Any of you ever seen “The Wrestler”?

Aside from that, you guys remember Lonnie Main back in the day.

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 5, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

"Sheez, roger: Our comments came in at the same time.

See that, nailingit? We're outta sync. :("

Simultaneous Postgasms with another avatar! I'm more than a little jealous, but open minded as well. :)


timerick — August 5, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

"My biggest grip has always been the amount of money we piss off on needless things and the amount we send to countries that hate us.If we used that money me might not be in the situation we are in."

I read today Newt Gingrich is starting to re-think his NeoCon stance, and with it our less than successful involvement in other country's affairs. Rather than question his motives, (coming clean before death and/or losing money:) it's a welcome chink in the neoconservative think tank.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 11:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:39 p.m.

"The thing is phony as can be, but can be fun. Like reading the National Enquirer for kicks. All of you who depend on your “Think Progress” should understand this well."

:)) Now that's kinda funny.

However one could also include the commentary of Ayn Rand.

There's that.

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 11:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — August 5, 2013 at 8 p.m.

No worries luvit. No matter how old the Earth is, no matter if we walked with T-Rex, one thing is for certain...

"And, of course, we know in biblical prophecy that that is the End Times," Adams said of the initiative. "That is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. That is demonic through and through. That is End Times prophecy. There is no question about that."

(It must be embarrassing to be Republican these days. Instead of many Wingers coming out of the closet, I wouldn't be surprised if many were locking themselves in.)

///Cathie Adams, Former Texas GOP Chair: Immigration Reform Will Lead To Mark Of The Beast, 'End Times'///

Cathie Adams served as chair of the Texas Republican Party for the larger part of a year between 2009 and 2010. Now she's railing against immigration reform, citing her belief that it will lead to an identification system indicative of biblical End Times.

Speaking with Christian radio host Rick Wiles last week in an exchange first captured by Right Wing Watch, Adams decried a biometric scanning proposal present in immigration reform legislation already passed by the Senate, claiming that it would give amnesty to people from Muslim countries who "are not here with the best intentions for America."

When Wiles decried a "biometric scanning" proposal present in the Senate's bill, Adams suggested that such a plan would manifest itself by giving "lost foreigners" the sort of "mark of the beast" cited in End Times prophecies.

"And, of course, we know in biblical prophecy that that is the End Times," Adams said of the initiative. "That is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. That is demonic through and through. That is End Times prophecy. There is no question about that."

Listen to Adams' interview, via Right Wing Watch:

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 12:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pro wresting is a scripted event - a soap opera for the testosterone crowd. It is not phony. Most of the old retired guys are so crippled they're lucky to be able to move around without help. That is a very dangerous career path; one that until recently very few made a decent living in.

I met a few of the top stars back in the day - Superstar Billy Graham lives (lived?) in the Phoenix area, and Arn Anderson and Sid Vicious. I was a fan growing up, and my boys were fans. When I'd take them to the events some of the wrestlers would usually be at tables meeting the fans and signing autographs. For free. And they would actually talk. Sid Vicious was a very nice guy - I've still got pics of him with my youngest. The Bad Guys were the best - probably because they had to be extroverted to play their roles.

Vince McMahon may have ruined the "sport" in the eyes of many fans, but he does something that the other pro sports forgot - he connects with the community. WWE is involved in many charities, does the annual Christmas tour with the troops overseas that appears to have replaced the old USO show, and a few other positive things. Kindly point out what other major sport still has this concern for their fans. Nowadays, the dollar rules everything, and the stars are mostly overpaid narcissists who think they actually contribute something of relevance. (I refuse to watch pro baseball to this day - I've been boycotting it since my Wash Senators left DC back after the '71 season. And I know a few old Balt Colts fans that still refuse to accept that move to Indy.)

roger — August 6, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Roger, you are spot on. I met Dutch back in the day. He had a storefront in Sellwood where he counseled drug and alcohol users and tried to get them back on track. He, and the other wrestlers, always gave back to this area.

Now Jessie Ventura, that's another story. Too many hits to the head, I think.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone else considering tossing their hat in the ring and running for freeholder? I'm not liking what I'm seeing so far - a whole lot of people who think the County should march in lock step with whatever Vancouver City Council wants. I'd like to build a charter for a strong County gov't which represents the entire area. And I would push for the use of the ballot for important decisions - like whether we in the unincorporated areas want to be snatched up by the cities and their version of manifest destiny. Oh - And I'd also push to get rid of that silliness where people can vote for a Commissioner of a District they don't live in.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Way back in the day ... I moved over here. One of the first grocery stores I used to shop at was the old Albertson's on 117th in Orchards. We had all the kids with us and were just finishing up when who should walk in but ol' Dutch himself. You couldn't miss him. He seemed larger than life. Within seconds every kid in the store swarmed him. He was very humble about it and gave every kid some time for hugs and some talk.

A few years before he'd been in a particularly vicious match that involved a chain in the ring. Back then it was live on channel twelve. He got raked pretty good with it. Everybody thought it was a faked deal. When I saw him he still had those scars to prove it wasn't.

Also if one was observant you could tell something was wrong with him. His face was bloated and he seemed to be in a lot of pain but there he stood for ten or fifteen minutes giving his all to those children. I bet not one ever forgot the day they got to meet 'Dutch' Savage. If you weren't a fan before he made you one that day. I later found out that this happened quite regularly. He did the same thing. He knew who his fans were and he was very giving to them. Pretty classy.

JohnCasey — August 6, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Go for it. Please. You just wrote your position statement, so you have that task behind you. I'll vote for you. :)

I'd love to see Ron Goodman run, as well, simply based on how well-researched his FB arguments are.

Diversity of opinion and experiences will only enrich the outcome.

manthou — August 6, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kindly point out what other major sport still has this concern for their fans.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 5:59 a.m.

Sorry to break it to you roger, but Pro "Wrestling" is not a major sport. It's a ridiculous spectacle that's as phony and non competitive as the day is long.

These guys get racked up similar to a stunt man's injuries.

On several occasions when I was stationed overseas, WWE along with some stars would entertain the troops & kids. I don't know about the contractual financial aspect, but I'm sure these guys were well taken care of.

It is nice they go out of their way for our troops. But a sport? C'mon!

I remember Verne Gagne when I was a wee little one. I think he hawked Geritol.

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Best of Verne Gagne

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Best of Linda Mcmahon

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Clark County public health is offering free immunizations for children as they return to school.

It reminded me that Tom Mielke, when he first came to office in 2009, introduced the idea that the county should refuse to pay for non-emergency health services, which includes immunizations, if the residents could not produce a social security number.

I remember how John Wiesman handled that: Clark County would NOT be in the business of denying services to undocumented residents. If they go without needed support, the entire county is at risk.

Mielke did not get it:

"If we don’t have those Social Security numbers, I would like to know who those individuals are who we are serving that are here illegally, and why we serve them and help them in their health.”

manthou — August 6, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 5, 2013 at 11:50 p.m.

I’d like to take a ride in the wayback machine to see the wrestling spectacle of the ages between Karl “the Kollectivist” Marx against Ayn “the Mind” Rand. My money’s on the mind.


BTW, I meant no disrespect to Dutch. He was a great guy and a very familiar name around here.

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When I was a very young lad my foster parents would go to their son's house on Saturday nights. We would have dinner, watch the wrestling and then the adults would play dominoes after sending us to bed. Or, in my case, the couch. I'd be wakened around 11:00 and hustled out to the car for the ride home.

This cat was my favorite wrestler.

[link text][1]


He was one hell of an athlete.

Drift — August 6, 2013 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Drift, bad link.

My older brother was the photographer at the old "Portland Sports Arena" in North Portland. I used to tag along to watch the matches and meet the guys. I heard lots of stories about this and that. They used to have razor blades under the apron of the ring so they could cut their own forehead foe effect. It bleeds really easily and heals quickly (according to Buddy Rose) and you could tell just by looking who took advantage of it. Lonnie Mayne was a really sweet guy and so was Rose. I went to high school with Shag Thomas's son and met him at his home a few times. All these guys were really into the crowd and worked really hard for the very little they made. The regular guys (not headliners) made around $50 a night and that's why they went on the road all the time. A lot of them had regular jobs as well. As far as a "sport", it's more of a choreographed show than a sport, much like professional cheerleading except this is more of a full contact show. I wouldn't want to try either of them.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Have never been much into viewer sports, but even I remember Playboy Buddy Rose and Rowdy Roddy Piper thanks to poker night w/ friends Saturday nights while the TV blasted Portland Wrestling in the background. Rose passed a few years back here in Vancouver.

jacjak — August 6, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(bad link thing)

Okay, the heck with the link. The cat's (stage) name is Mil Mascaras. He was (is) a Mexican wrestler who sort of P.O.d some folks because he didn't care to play into the theatrics as some would expect of him.

The Wiki article I attempted to link to reads at 70-y-o he still does exhibition bouts. Take a look. His accomplishments are impressive.

Drift — August 6, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye I used to fish at Lucia Falls way back in the 70's.The old guy that owned it then was Foss.When we got done fishing we would go up to the restaurant and have a few beers.Dutch was a good friend of Foss and he would come up tell stories about wrestling.He was very interesting and a truly nice man.

timerick — August 6, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When I was a kid, we got to stay up and watch wrestling if we got good grades. It was from the National Guard Armory in downtown Portland, always on channel 12. Stan (The Crusher) Stasiac was a regular as was Greg Valentine. It's where the phrase "The Crow's Nest" came from. It was really high up and far away from the ring. The only way they could really watch the matches was on monitors from KPTV.

timerick, I heard that Dutch was part owner of the PSA. Don was part owner and promoter but Dutch was the money man.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.

The Daily Kos is decidedly bias. Even if you think it's trash, in the spirit of the National Enquirer outing Edwards, even the blind squirrel can sometimes find his nut.

Knowing your taste for ill conceived short stories, :) I thought you might like this one dealing with your Russian hero Ayn Rand. (Interesting how a faction of Conservatives have adopted a failed Hollywood wannabe-female-Russian-Atheist as a hero. Not trying to be critical here, but hey, really, who woulda thunk.)

///Everything I Really Ever Needed to Know About Ayn Rand I Learned From My Ex-Brother-In-Law///


Karl “the Kollectivist” Marx against Ayn “the Mind” Rand

That's catchy without a doubt. But in the interest of historical & developing events, how bout'...

FrankenAyn vs Groucho

Another (albeit healthy) read, as well as one more from same Pub about Rand. (I forget if it was you or fro who have expressed opinions about the KOS). I don't read this pub often, but took note of this quite awhile ago and can't remember if I posted it.

Feel free to point out what you feel is inaccurate.

What's the big dif between Karl & Ayn anyway? Ayn had more body hair? Anyway...

For your edification.

///Ayn Rand was a Communist Sympathizer///

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Columbia River Crossing website no longer says it is shutting down the project.

Read Andrea Damewood's latest observation and report here:

[link text][1]


manthou — August 6, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Nails, there are some that claim rock 'n' roll isn't real music. But we know better, huh???

Down in North Carolina we had Haystacks Calhoun, Chief Jay Strongbow, Sergeant Slaughter, and then Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat in their early days. And it was a big deal when Bruno San Martino made his rounds of the bigger circuits.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Whaaa...? Comparing rock n roll to... it can't be. Say it ain't so!!! :)

I remember Verne from an early age. Moved out west where the caped crusaders were called, amongst others, Orange "Strychnine" Sunshine & Manchild Mescaline.

I remember Captain Quaalude had a helluva drop kick.

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Then you also remember the questions about why Joe Friday's badge number was 714.

And probably also followed the adventures of The Cartoon Messiah (Vaughn Bode's Cheech Wizard) in High Times.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That change to the website is peculiar. And there are those who question the continued attempts to obtain the various permits.

The recent adjournment of Congress without a Transportation bill doesn't paint a rosy future for any New Starts funding - either for LRT or BRT on 4th Plain. I suppose there's a possible scenario where OR might recognize this and relent on the LRT requirement. In this case, the WA Senate may agree to return for another special session and help ram that 10 cents per gallon tax and other assorted fees down our throats. But I don't really see our friend in Ridgefield, among others, stooping to this. There's also the issue that a whole lot of the State is still unhappy over that judicial ruling that tossed out the requirement to vote on tax increases. I suspect a lot of people know their seats are in jeopardy if they agree to this.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In this corner..A former Mayor as well as Governor of Minnesota..a reform party's dream come true..The Body....JesseeeeEEE...VenTURAAaaaaaa!

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 6, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.

I remember the co-winkydink. Back then it was common to see Jesus barking in the trees and color lags Sherwin-Williams would be envious of. It wasn't a stretch to envision Joe's #714 badge rolling on the floor. It was pretty much at eye level.

Dragnet was one of my all time favorite shows for sure.

I thought you might like this bit of trivia from wiki. I like wiki for non-sensical stuff that's weird to look up-hope it's correct.

Badge 714

Dragnet used Joe Friday's police badge, with the iconic numbers "714", as its title logo. It has been suggested that Jack Webb wanted badge 714 because he was a big fan of Babe Ruth, who slugged 714 home runs in his career; however, this is an urban legend. In My Name's Friday, the book-length history of Dragnet by TV commentator Micharl J. Hayde, it was asserted that Friday originally wanted the badge number to be "777," tripling the lucky number 7, but decided instead to add the last two digits together to get "14," thus making the badge number "714."

The 714 badge that Friday carried as a lieutenant during the final season of the 1951-59 series was ultimately used in real life by LAPD officer Dan Cooke (however the character of Joe Friday was never made a lieutenant though, preferring to remain in his sergeant's position). As a sergeant, Cooke had been assigned to be the LAPD's liaison with Webb during the production of the 1967-70 series. Just before filming started on the TV-movie that became the pilot for the revived series, Cooke found the badge that the LAPD had lent to Webb in 1958-59 season. However, Webb informed Cooke that he wanted Friday to be a sergeant in the revived series, and, consequently, would not need the lieutenant's badge from the original show. Cooke put the unused badge in a desk drawer and forgot about it. Years later, after being promoted to lieutenant himself, Cooke found the badge and asked for permission to use it.

When Webb died in 1982, LAPD Chief Darryl Gates officially retired shield number 714 (Webb was also buried with full police honours, a rarity for a non-policeman).

Dragnet and spinoff Adam-12 were the only television shows to use real LAPD badges.
In the show's heyday, people (either whimsically or seriously) would regularly visit the LAPD asking to speak to Sgt. Friday. The official response given by the front desk was, "Sorry, it's Joe's day off".

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

Since you asked....

I’ve skimmed over that short story, and only looked at the first several paragraphs of that very lengthy other write, which I don’t plan on ever finishing, (I think I wasted my money on that Evelyn Wood speed reading class 40 years ago). But I can already respond to that hogwash.

First of all, Ayn Rand (not her real name), was in her teens when they had their little revolution over there. Her father refused to join the Communist Party and ended up losing his business and wound up poor. Their house was commandeered by the government, and other families, presumably homeless, were moved in. A few years later, Rand was able to get out of the country, even though it was near impossible. She eventually made her way from France, to Chicago to Hollywood where she got a job with Cecil B. DeMille as a screenplay editor. Somewhere along the line, she began her own writing career.

On at least two occasions, I have quoted her, with links to the Ayn Rand Institute, about her comtempt for Libertarians. As near as I can figure, the amoral stance of Libertarians was disgusting to her. At least when it comes to Capitalism, she was well aware of its destructive powers, and knew that good ethical behavior is essential. Her ideas are based on the ability of the human mind to reason on facts, not faith, hence her atheism.

Collectivism is at the heart of Marx. I believe he actually admired capitalism for it’s efficiency, but believed there would be a transition from Capitalism to Socialism to Communism. I have not read Das Kapital, which is long and I believe, dry. I read his much shorter Communist Manifesto long ago. That’s the one with the workers of the world unite thing. The atheism of the Socialist/Communist, is based on the idea that religion is foisted on those at the bottom, as they pass their lives through, by believing in a better afterlife. How did Mao put it: “religion is poison”.

When it comes to that second link by “ignatzmouse”, the problems start from the beginning. While Ayn Rand may have felt a “peculiar resonance” with Karl Marx; that was over their respective ideas being misrepresented and applied by others. Not over an affinity of their beliefs, which were opposites.

There are other things, but it really gets convoluted when “ignatzmouse” tries to argue that the difference between Marx and Rand are merely that of “scale”; introducing the positive comparision between individuals and biological organisms or ant colonies. Matters of degree make a difference.

The writter is blantantly putting a spin on Rand but does provide a good example of the HIVE mentality of the Left. In doing so, the anti personal liberty stance is front and center. Hardly the stuff of which life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is made.

You seem different lately nailingit.

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 6, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

Haystack came out here and did his thing a few times, even Andre the Giant put in a few appearances. Jimmy (later to be called "Superfly") Snuka, got his mainland start here with Don Owen and Ric (Natureboy) Flair came in to defend his title several times. Back in the late 50's to the mid 70's Portland and the Pacific NW was huge in the wrestling world.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Didn't Nick Bockwinkle start in this area, before moving to the big time in the AWA? Also Rip Oliver, Curt Hennig and Gorgeous George. I remember seeing a special years ago about the wresting here - was surprised so many of the 80's stars started here. During my first Lewis tour in '82 we went to Yakima, and the Sergeant Major I worked for dragged me into town to see the wrestling at some old hall (I think it did double duty as a skating rink). My role was to be the B-- Boy and get beer for him and his buddies, but the show was so entertaining I went and hid so I could watch it. The old British Bulldogs were brawling with a couple of bad guys - when they busted chairs across each other heads the blood flew and the chairs got bent all to hell. And there was another Brit named Adams; he laid someone out (maybe Buddy Rose?) with his super kick. First time I saw that one - I think the Von Erichs snatched him up for their league, because soon all the young guys like Sean Michaels coming out of there were using it.

Definitely good times.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nobody cares about pro wrestling. -- kn_dalai — August 5, 2013 at 10:39 p.m.

Well, I may have been just a little wrong about that. I don’t recall any other subject that has had as many comments here by as many posters, except maybe Clint.

One thing I remember about those old Portland TV wraslin’ days was that announcer on KPTV. I think his name was Frank Bonoma, or something close. I remember him because he was really deadpan. These guys were in top theatrical form, and Frank just kind of stood there with the mic, all stone like. I always got the feeling he wished he was someplace else. (But the thing is phony and not a sport. Strangely, nail and I agree on this one).

As an aside, I’ve heard it suggested that Ali patterned his own theatrics after some old time wrastler named Gorgeous George.

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - Jesse Ventura was a low class ripoff of Superstar Billy Graham. I'd say the highlight of his career was when he teamed up with Adrian Adonis for a couple of years.

Drift - Wasn't Mil Mascaras the first Lucha Libre star to make it big in the US - one of those guys who wore masks and did all kinds of acrobatic tricks? I kind of recall he never stayed for long, because the promoters always wanted to match him against one of the Japanese masked men, and he wanted to go for championships.

Nails - I think that was Mankind Mescaline, from Truth or Consequences, NM. You can't fool me - I can tell you were one of those closet fans who refused to own up to enjoying this low brow form of entertainment, probably because of the hoity toity pretentious characters who ran the show when you were with State. If any of the shows on now were any good, I'd tell you to fire one up, grab a beer, and kick back, enjoy the show. Maybe even throw the empty at the set because of the stupid, retarded ref. But the stars of today are so pathetic, probably the best brawls are the ones the females on TNA have.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Of course it's phony. If you want the real thing, watch MMA.

But what is the real definition of a sport? Riding in a NASCAR race? Knocking a golf ball around? Playing frisbee toss with your pooch? Doing your best to keep from falling asleep out in right field? Boxing? Many people say yes to all.

Gorgeous George is credited up there with Uncle Miltie and a few others as being the reason for TV to catch on. And the advice he gave young Cassius was "A lot of people will pay to see someone shut your mouth. So keep on bragging, keep on sassing and always be outrageous." I'd say he learned that lesson quite well.

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 6, 2013 at 6:58 p.m.

Yup, right you are. Rip (The Crippler) Oliver got his start here with Lonnie Mayne. We also had Bull Ramos. I met him once when I was driving AAA tow truck, he called us out to change his flat tire. He was 300+ lbs. and I was a buck 38 and he wanted ME to change HIS tire??? He had a brown Ford van with a big bull painted on the side. He was nice enough but no tip.

Now we have a "new" version of Portland Wrestling "uncut". It has been revived by none other than "Hot Rod" Roddy Piper. He's got his son involved in it and the gag is, every body is after him thru his kid. Not as much fun as before, no arena, all done in a studio.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, Forum friends. I just filed for freeholder (District 2, position 4). We're all opinionated, and all claim to know what's best for this little piece of America. How about a few more stepping up?????

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

Cool roger. I never knew there had been any contact and advice between Gorgeous and Ali. One thing about Ali; he never said a thing he couldn’t back up. Gorgeous was right about people paying to see someone shut his mouth. It made Ali a legend and served him, and the sport of boxing well, at least until his later years.

Not MMA roger. Real wrestling is amateur. Middle school, high school, collegiate and for the rare few: Olympian. Which now seems to be over with. Real wrestling as a sport is Greco-Roman or freestyle, not Hollywood.

The sports you mentioned are all about competing as nailingit pointed out. Pro wrestling is not. These guys are often extremely muscled and athletic. They do some great moves, but it’s not about competing. It’s not a sport.

It is not phony. -- roger — August 6, 2013 at 5:59 a.m.

Of course it's phony. -- roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:52 p.m

Good for you, Roger. Should be a good race. I'm interested in the District 3, pos. 3 race. Should get nasty. Moeller against Debbie Peterson. You couldn't write this stuff.

Wonder why HC hasn't filed?

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Way to go, roger! I wish you well. Go get 'em!

manthou — August 6, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see Jeannie Harris is OUT. There's a step in the right direction for Vancouver.

hawkeye — August 6, 2013 at 10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"At least when it comes to Capitalism, she was well aware of its destructive powers, and knew that good ethical behavior is essential. Her ideas are based on the ability of the human mind to reason on facts, not faith, hence her atheism."

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

"and knew that good ethical behavior is essential."

Yet understanding it's neither sustainable or obtainable. Speculative at best, but what safeguards would Ayn suggest for our current state of affairs. Real world stuff that is..

"Faith is the worst curse of mankind; it is the exact antithesis and enemy of thought. . . . I want to be known as the greatest champion of reason and the greatest enemy of religion." Ayn Rand

If political candidates who are Ayn inspired (Paul Ryan?) broached the subject of religion as she did, with just a fraction of the ferocity, it would not only bring clarity to platform, but a quick end to the elective process.

They would never win another election in our "Christian" nation again.

I think it's safe to say both Rand & Marx were at best utopistic ideologues imparting their vision of a perfect world. Ayn elevating independent thinking to Godhood-as long as our thinking mirrors hers, and Marx, well, not unlike the philosophical brain trust of Rodney King.

At least Rodney was American.

Both not unlike Joseph Smith and his golden plates. Nice era-Good times.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

Collectivist can mean many things to many people.

"You seem different lately nailingit."

I'm Molting. And Pon Farr being seven weeks out doesn't help either.

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Congrats on throwing your hat in the ring.

Some quick advice from a political forum consultant (ahem) for free. After this...(I start at 300 a day+*expenses to include *meals *gas & *lodging.)

(1) Stay away from questions regarding your stance on Government mandated population control. Avoid catch words such as "Infanticide" & "Neonaticide" when discussing such. (stay upbeat!) If need be, mention the wide open spaces of Cheney, Wyoming.

(2) Don't say you're for something when you're not, or against something when for it. Just don't say anything at all and move on to the next question. As a self proclaimed Independent, you must already have experience with this.

(3) If you're ever offered a bribe, make sure it's worth your while and the process is layered for plausible deniability.

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 11:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Nails - Jesse Ventura was a low class ripoff of Superstar Billy Graham. I'd say the highlight of his career was when he teamed up with Adrian Adonis for a couple of years."

roger — August 6, 2013 at 7:20 p.m.

I'd say his highlight was developing Light Rail Transit for the Twin Cities. :))

nailingit — August 6, 2013 at 11:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(soon to be "Freeholder Roger)
"Drift - Wasn't Mil Mascaras the first Lucha Libre star to make it big in the US - one of those guys who wore masks and did all kinds of acrobatic tricks?"

Yeah. Dude had more moves than a randy politician. I haven't watched wrestling in over 40 years, but for some reason I remember Mil.

Drift — August 7, 2013 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like Andrea's suspicions were correct - Someone is trying to revive the CRC without Washington State funding. Annette Cleveland and Jim Moeller appear to be involved, to osome extent. And just who is this Noland Hoshino - he seems to have arrived on the scene in the past year, and become very involved.

Things are definitely getting interesting.

roger — August 7, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll give strong consideration to all of your advice. Thank you very much - your input is valued.

Kinda like that?

roger — August 7, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm going to repeat my earlier post - I'd really like to see others from here getting involved in the freeholder process. We've got lots of good ideas, across the spectrum, but without a willingness to follow through occasionally we are little more than a noisy group of windbags - or whatever Lew Waters called us a while back.

roger — August 7, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Manthou should run. Reasonable, very much involved with all this, keeps a cool head. Come on, Missy, rise to the occasion!

luvithere — August 7, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 7, 2013 at 6:40 a.m.

Yes! Wear shades. Your future is bright.

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am a little confused about this whole politicking thing.

Yesterday, politicians were an evil lot to be scorned and ridiculed.

Today, since the easy access Freeholder thing-everybody wants a piece of the pie.

Cesspool closes at Ten. Make sure the light's off and shut the gate behind you.

And so it all begins...

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Rog, as I was reading about the closing down of the CRC offices it occurred to me that there was more money that wasn't listed on the costs so far for the project. I would like to know how much each state paid out to have their reps working in the office. 96 employees using those offices would come up to a lot more of those hidden costs that we don't hear about.

I have worked on some projects that on the surface penciled out. Next thing you know those costs skyrocketed because of the hidden problems encountered. Case in point was the downtown bus bus mall project in P-Town in the early seventies. At PGE we were told to relocate some of our sevices and work with the other utilities (PP&L;, Ma Bell, PNWNG, various city dept's) to combine our services to the core area. This was all for the fancy mall. I can tell you with certainty there were big cost over-runs.

I find when a government entity tells the public that this is how much it will cost they seem to forget abut Murphy's law.

Roger, I wish luck!! Go get um.

JohnCasey — August 7, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jim Moeller · Top Commenter

Although I must admit, it can be enjoyable listening and watching heads explode about the possibility of a revived CRC the fact is that 2/3's of the funding is intact. Additionally, Oregon and Washington DOT's have secured the LAA (Locally Approved Alternative) the EIS, (Environmental Impact Statement) a federal Record of Decision and soon will have a permit for the bridge from the USCC by the end of September as the CRC has not withdrawn it's application. Additionally, mitigation is almost complete (it lacks only one more signature) and this project is one of 4 on the Presidents "We Can't Wait" Initiative for mega transportation infrastructure projects.

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good luck Roger.You are one of the most informed posters I have seen.I would like to help you any way I can.Let me know if I can help.

timerick — August 7, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So this guy Hasan says, in open court, that he did in fact shoot and kill or wound 45 people in the name of Allah.

Is this a sign that he should be shot at sunrise the next day or what?? When you shoot up a military base just because you don't believe, then why the hell did you join up in the first place? He should've gone on deployment then he could defect over there. Now the military has to decide whether he lives for the rest of his life in prison or gets the bullet.

My choice is obvious. Give him the cigarette and blindfold, if he wants one, and be done with it. Those dead and wounded deserve the justice. I always thought that the military was more black and white on this but now we see that they have there hands tied. Pity that. Just saying.

JohnCasey — August 7, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Thanks for the confidence, but I had my foray into elected "office" when I ran for the various delegate spots for the 2012 election. Made it all the way to the state, but it was an expensive experience for sure. I am sorely teed off that so many politicians are co-opting this freeholder process: its time for them to step aside and live with what their constituents say for a change. Go, roger! Go, Sunrise! Go Temple! My five freeholder votes will not go to a seated legislator, no matter how much I like them.

nailingit: I had to go to Milwaukie yesterday, the first time in 10 years. This is another revitalized community with light rail in the process of being built to its city core (a judge recently killed the opposition to it). I hardly recognized the place, it was so cute. I am going back for a second peek, tire kicking like I did in Orenco Station. I do want the option of easy public transportation in my dotage. Not that I am there yet, but it will happen. Can't talk the old man into PDX no matter how hard I try. :)

roger: Saw you great comments on the FB side about the zombie bridge project. My major disagreement: downtown is hopping and alive and worth saving. Don't discount the tenacity of long-time small businesses and dedicated residents there. This part of Vancouver gets better every year, with or without the bridge. With or without light rail. That's what gives me hope: it will always be a pedestrian-friendly alternative to cars and strip malls and sprawl because the folks involved keep on keeping on. :)

manthou — August 7, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey: So sorry I don't agree with you about Hasan. When our country violates the civil rights of ANY citizen, they erode your rights and my rights. Are you willing to sign them over? No? Good.

Even the most heinous among us are promised by our Constitution, through the 5th and 14th Amendments, to have not only procedural due process, but substantive due process.

The true test of a government, for me, is its ability to protect the rights of even the most heinous and most marginalized citizens among us. The US is already eroding our rights in ways that make me sick: the search and seizure of citizen homes during the Boston bombing aftermath; the eavesdropping of phones and emails; etc.

The courts will take care of Hasan.

We need to band together as citizens to hold our government accountable to protect this guys's rights or else we keep eroding our own.

[link text][1]


manthou — August 7, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, yes I DO agree but at the same time it's just frustrating as hell to think this idiot has a chance to live. I don't pretend to know what the answers are when it comes to this crime. He killed and wounded military personnel and to this he screams 'Allah Akbar'. He is representing himself. He admits he did it. The prosecution says he did it. The witnesses saw him do it. I don't care how mentally disturbed he is. In this case that should have no bearing on the outcome.

As a side note I was laboring under the thought that when you signed on the dotted line for the military service you signed some of those bill of rights away. You did not have the freedom of speech. You kept your mouth shut and did what you were told to do. You became the property of the US Military. I guess I need to be enlightened about the military as it exists today.

At this point what is the true purpose of this debacle? His rights are being protected and hopefully the outcome will satisfy the living. It just seems to me that the court is wasting time because he already admitted that he did it.

This is an argument that can not fully satisfy either side of the debate. I do not want anybody's right infringed upon. So let him have his day in court and hopefully the prosecution does their job and leaves NO ROOM for an appeal. This has dragged on long enough and and the stress that it has caused for the family's and the survivors is horrendous.

JohnCasey — August 7, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 7, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.

Our timing hasn't been off, it's just taken a different direction. Sans washcloth, the timing is perfect!

My daughter moved to Portland this week, about 35-40 minutes away :( and my better half and I are seeing her place for the first time today. We're headed out to pick up a house warming gift and off we go.

Anyway, looking on the map it's only about 10-15 minutes from Milwaukie! Will most likely check it out and give a brief assessment.

Being fairly new to the area, there is so much we haven't seen.

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:37 am: Noland Hoshino is a local small business owner who also was elected as a national delegate to the Democratic convention in 2012. I was delighted to see his happy face broadcast over national TV, cheering Bill Clinton's speech. I have met him and worked with him politically in local campaigns and for marriage equality in WA. I like him immensely and believe we will see him running for local office someday. He is honest, compassionate, smart and sports a keen sense of humor.

nailingit: So glad your daughter has moved close to you! All the young people love Portlandia! In another crazy parallel of our lives, our son is leaving Portland tomorrow for graduate school in Ohio. :( Off he goes, back to where we came, the Midwest, he and his girlfriend and a loaded UHaul packed with their humble possessions and youthful hope.

Let me know what you think of downtown Milwaukie. Here is a map of the light rail route (dotted orange lines) to Milwaukie:

[link text][1]


manthou — August 7, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I was quite pleased to see you have decided to go for a position as a freeholder. There's hope for our community yet!...8))

I wish you all the best!

goldenoldie — August 7, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice try Hawk

The BOCC to me is a corrupted trio that does nothing to create jobs, the same with the Port of Vancouver. They don't have the vision, the know how, the connections, etc.

holycrapola — August 7, 2013 at 9:36 a.m.

Well, like I said, if you know so much..... step up or shut up.

hawkeye — August 7, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye is that both of your B.G. mayor candidates running for freeholder?

timerick — August 7, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 7, 2013 at 11:50 a.m.

Just the opposite. She moved 35 min. away. We won't see her nearly as much as we do now. Kinda sad when they get all grown up. But more than happy not to go through raising kids again.

I've always been a Clarkistanian living in Vantucky (and proud of it:) since moving to this part of the world.

We didn't drive through Milwaukie, but it's just minutes from my daughter. We stayed longer than anticipated and wanted to beat the traffic back. I'll return there in the near future. I didn't even know Mt. Scott existed. And I'm still not sure! :)) Is the difference between a "Mount" and a "hill" a volcano?

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Mr. Nail, Mt. Scott and Mt. Tabor in SE Portland are both extinct volcanoes. I grew up in SE Portland and worked there for many years. I still can't believe they built all those houses on the side of that hill. One good earthquake and they are all going to end up in Clackamas Town Center.

Manthou, as far as Milwaukie goes, it's a nice little town. Don't speed down Main St., they love it when you do. My younger brother lives there, has for most of his life. Southern/Union Pacific runs through the middle of town, loud horns. Haven't been there in a while.

hawkeye — August 7, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"[[Mt.]] Scott and [[Mt.]] Tabor in SE Portland are both extinct volcanoes."

I know.

"...on the side of that [[hill]]."

See what I mean?? ;)

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan headline Koch summit///

Rep. Paul Ryan, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez secretly spoke to wealthy donors at the Koch brothers’ recently concluded summer gathering on the outskirts of Albuquerque.

The 2012 vice presidential candidate and No. 2 House Republican are return participants to the twice-annual seminar, which also drew wealthy donors and conservative nonprofit leaders including American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks.

The meeting featured some discussion of the unfolding GOP Senate primary challenges to Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming, but no consensus opinion emerged, a source who attended the event told POLITICO. The source said that Cantor and Ryan both delivered presentations that were well-received by donors, as was Brooks’s speech on work as a source of happiness.

A spokesman for Cantor’s office declined to comment, while Ryan’s office did not immediately respond to questions.


Ryan has developed deep ties to Koch World, having appeared at multiple events for AfP, and delivering a major speech at the Kochs’ summer 2008 donor summit on his “fiscal ‘Roadmap for America’s future,’” according to a program for that summit reviewed by POLITICO.
Other past attendees include Supreme Court justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, media stars Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the late Andrew Breitbart, Govs. Chris Christie of New Jersey, Bob McDonnell of Virginia and Rick Perry of Texas, and Sens. John Cornyn of Texas and Jim DeMint of South Carolina, who has since resigned to head The Heritage Foundation, which has received funding from the Koch donor network.

Read more:

nailingit — August 7, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wouldn't take Jim Moeller's Rah Rah comments as anything more than his own optimism. Take the time to do some extra reading - The Columbian article leaves out some highly relevant details. Like that this story came from Patricia McCaig - The ex-employee of David Evans who has worked so hard (and allegedly illegally) to get Oregon to support the project. If she's still speaking for Gov Kitz, then where's he? He's had nearly 24 hours to speak out.

Consider that Speaker Kotek had to work very hard to get the bridge project approved in their House - even Dems were opposed. Most Oregonians see little value in this project; to them, it's to make life easier for us. She had to guarantee that their cost would be no more than $450 mil, and that we'd be on board too. They are extremely unlikely to agree to assuming sole financial responsibility for a project that will easily exceed a billion in cost.

roger — August 7, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I read somewhere today that they stopped Hassan's trial - The prosecution said he was deliberately trying to be found guilty and was seeking the death penalty. He wants to be seen as a martyr. Military justice has a few differences from civilian courts. The General Officer who appointed the court can overturn a death sentence. You can bet on that happening. (Actually, pretty much like what Gov Kitz is doing with Haugen.) Hassan will do life at Leavenworth - 23 hours per day in solitary protective confinement, and one hour heavily guarded in the exercise yard.

Same as with Bradley Manning. Well, almost. Hassan is a tougher nut; he'll remain committed to his beliefs and unrepentant to the end. Manning will crack and end up on the psych ward.

John Casey - A military person can speak his own mind on just about any subject. He must do this representing himself as a private citizen, however - He cannot speak out representing himself as a member of the armed forces. But there are limits; statements viewed as seditious or harmful to the USA are frowned on. I'd have to go back and look, but I sort of recall Hassan making a few comments in his web exchanges with that extremist mullah that were considered way over the line.

roger — August 7, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Downtown revival. I've been known to be wrong on many things. In respect for your (and timerick's) desires for that area, hopefully this will be one of those times.

roger — August 7, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 7, 2013 at 7:17 p.m.

Without going to look for links from this morning, I will state that it was the defense lawyers that stopped the trial asking to be relieved since their, not quite client (he is defending himself but the judge assigned attorneys to aid him in the details of his defense) was setting himself up for the death penalty and to make himself a martyr and that violated their duty to do their best to defend said client. The judge cleared the court room to discuss this with all of the various attorneys. Haven't seen any results of that meeting.

PFC Manning is a whistle blower who should be be allowed the rights that were once given to whistle blowers but now seem to have disappeared.

dfsadfh — August 7, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On the first, you're correct. It was the court appointed defense attorney who asked the judge to stop, due to Hassan's tactics while defending his own case.

On the second, PFC Manning was cleared for processing classified information, and gathered/sent same to Assange. This was in direct violation of the many orders that are addressed in the Nondisclosure Statement he presumably read before signing. (I signed enough of these over my career to know.) The Whistleblower Protection Act does not apply. (I also pulled an IG tour and dealt with that.) The difference is that Whistleblower protects those who report a violation of the law, while Manning made his decisions based on his own ideas as to what was right or wrong. He was the one who broke the law. I can see an argument that if he was a private citizen and somehow came across/released the information he should be in the clear (I can't see the claim we are at war with Terror and treason being applied), but he is wearing a military uniform and entered into numerous legally binding agreements, some of which carry rather harsh penalties for violating.

roger — August 8, 2013 at 5:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay folks, something is eating at me regarding the two articles listed below and I wanted to run it by you to see if you can comprehend the sensibility of such a request by these people who have a pipe dream. For some reason, I do not see their thought processes working in a functional manner, especially when it comes to building the crossing project and cost effectiveness from their point of view.

Article 1 states ""Now supporters are calling for the governors to reverse course and use Oregon's money, combined with federal dollars tied to light rail, to salvage at least some of the beleaguered megaproject. Those involved in behind-the-scenes discussions say the result would build a new Interstate 5 bridge connected to an upgraded interchange at state Highway 14. But any other freeway improvements north of the Columbia River would wait until Washington puts up its own money.""

Does that mean light rail will be extended from Delta Park to Hayden Island or are they going to try to built it up to mid span on the new bridge at the Oregon/Washington border?

Article 2 states """Supporters called for a pared-down version of the CRC that would build a new Interstate 5 Bridge with light rail and new interchanges on the Oregon side of the Columbia River, but only the state Highway 14 interchange in Washington. The plan would rely on Oregon money already committed, federal funds and revenue from tolls on I-5. Any additional freeway work on the Washington side of the river would wait until lawmakers in Olympia put up money of their own.

Backers say the phased option could be done for about $2.75 billion."""

Again, the question of where the LRT would end comes up.

- Furthermore - locking the federal matching dollars for a bi-state plan to meet the needs of Oregon...what's in it for Washington? All we need upgraded on the Washington side would be Hwy 14...nothing else...and if Oregon had their way, the bridge wouldn't even connect to the Washington side of the interstate highway. It would be far too tall!!! To add, the LRT plan would need further federal AND state tax dollars for the extension...but if Oregon has locked in the funding to suit the needs of their end of the project...would there be anything left to add the extension? Would there be necessary federal tax dollars left to finish the project or would we have a half-built bridge looming over us with no access other than Hwy 14???

And is it truly more affordable?

goldenoldie — August 8, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Just read this medical opinion reversal on weed by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He apologized for misleading the public with incomplete facts from sound research.

Maybe the BOCC commissioners should take heed.

Thought you would like to read it, too:

[link text][1]


manthou — August 8, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think you’ve answered your own question in your first paragraph goldenoldie: “pipe dream” and “thought processes” .

What gets me, are those who say the opponents don’t have any good arguments. Huh? It’s been the CRC opposition who have consistently raised the real facts and numbers while the supporters have nothing but generalised statements about moving forward. They always talk about a new bridge, but downplay the lite rail component, when lite rail has always been the driving force behind the CRC and the biggest problem. Still waitng to hear how the CRC is going to clear up congestion south of the bridge. It’s really head shaking, pie in the sky stuff.

kn_dalai — August 8, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the link, manthou.

The original "catch-22" was the Marihuana Tax Act of '37. You see, in order to get a tax stamp a person had to provide a sample of the hemp they intended to grow, but it was illegal to grow without the stamp!

Back in '69 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the law was unconstitutional. I believe the ruling was related to the Fifth Amendment.

So, in '70 the Controlled Substance Act was passed and cannabis was tagged as a Schedule I substance.

It's the same game by a different name. Very little research on schedule I substances is allowed. Here in the states most of the work is done with synthetic phytocannabinoids. Therefore, the cannabinoid isn't actually the subject of the study. The endocannabinoid systems are.

Now and again NIDA will fund a study - and have it backfire on them. A case in point is Dr. Tashkin's 20 year (something like that) study on the relationship between smoked cannabis and cancer. Cannabis actually contains more carcinogens than tobacco. It was thought pot causing cancer would be a "gimme."

The results showed that not only is there no relationship at all, (though not statistically significant) there's an indication just the opposite is true. Cannabis smokers tend to have less incidence of head and neck cancers than abstainers. Oops. ;^)

No one really knows why a known carcinogen doesn't cause cancer. It's speculated the phytocannabionoids negate the carcinogenicity. This is very likely and research is being done on cannabis' antitumor properties.

Drift — August 8, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, and as far as the the commissioners go: Mielke has stated he thinks medicinal cannabis is a sham. Madore would rather kids buy weed from the black-market rather than having any real regulations. Stuart is the only commish who understands the difference between a real patient cannabis collective garden and a commercial enterprise calling itself one.

I wonder about the reading comprehension of M&M.; I've sent them several emails explaining "the way of it" in easy to understand words - no ranting or complicated jargon. Mielke no longer responds to my communiques and I've never received a response from Madore.

Drift — August 8, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Mielke is ruled by his limited world view. He declared that mental illness could be cured by tough love policies and that Clark County should deny health services, like immunizations to children of undocumented residents. He never lets science or best practices research get in the way of a good anecdote.

Madore is ruled by religious ideology and does not reserve judgment or change his opinion based on scientific research.
His opinion trumps all.

We are in trouble in Clark County and, if Madore gets re-elected, we should all pack for greener pastures.

manthou — August 8, 2013 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, Roger, I've got a question on this "freeholder" thing. 'Cuz I simply haven't put a lot of effort into educating myself on the subject, but now curiousity is getting the best of me.

The freeholders, basically, are charged with putting together some sort of charter? Those "rules" will be voted on by the citizens. If it passes it becomes the "new way?" What happens with the freeholders then? Do they ride off into the Sunset?

And what if it doesn't pass? What then?

Edumicate me, will ya?

Drift — August 8, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 6, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

"and knew that good ethical behavior is essential."

Yet understanding it's neither sustainable or obtainable. Speculative at best, but what safeguards would Ayn suggest for our current state of affairs. Real world stuff that is..

@knd- I really would like to know how the Rand philosophy is supposed to work in our 21st century America. Simply forcing austerity reenforces the progressive narrative of the 99% v 1%, and the results of such actions don't bode well for a healthy Democracy, let alone a strong economy.

What members of Congress best represent Ayn Rand's philosophy? Would it be those who are viewed as obstructionists such as Mike Lee and Louis Gohmert who stand with the Tea Party?
Some more bias, yet refreshingly honest words about the musings of A-Rand. (was she ever tested for growth hormones?)

///Conservatives once ridiculed Ayn Rand///

Today's doltish conservatives, like Paul Ryan, worship her. But their forebears called Rand's work "preposterous"

The growing influence on the American right of Ayn Rand, the libertarian right’s answer to Scientology’s novelist-philosopher L. Ron Hubbard, is a wonder to behold. When she died in 1982, Alissa Rosenbaum — the original name of the Russian-born novelist — was the leader of a marginal cult, the Objectivists, who had long been cast out of the mainstream American right. But the rise of Tea Party conservatism, fueled by white racial panic and zero-sum distributional conflicts in the Great Recession, has turned this minor, once-forgotten figure into an icon for a new generation of nerds who imagine themselves Nietzschean Ubermenschen oppressed by the totalitarian tyranny of the post office and the Social Security administration.

Rand-worshipers can be found in, among other places, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives. At a 2005 gathering to honor her memory, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan declared, “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.”

The late Gore Vidal would not have been surprised by the former Republican vice-presidential candidate’s choice of a patron saint. After all, it was Vidal who observed, in a 1961 article for Esquire:

She has a great attraction for simple people who are puzzled by organized society, who object to paying taxes, who dislike the ‘welfare’ state, who feel guilt at the thought of the suffering of others but who would like to harden their hearts. For them, she has an enticing prescription: altruism is the root of all evil, self-interest is the only good, and if you’re dumb or incompetent that’s your lookout.

///William F. Buckley Flogged Himself to Get Through Atlas Shrugged///

nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — August 8, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.

Fine assessment of the M&M; boys.

I might add Madore's voice and swag are reminiscent of one of societies beloved icons.

And Mielke's masterful articulation and worldliness has celebrity roots as well.

nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I expect most of the people running will have a learning curve before they get down to actual business.

Freeholders serve for one year, and write the new County Charter - within the limits allowed. Then they go away.

I think they can only up the number of commissioners to 5, but they can also restrict voting on them to those living in their district. They can designate some of the other positions to be elective, and can redistribute some of the powers - especially if a chief county executive position is created.

There's some info on the County web page, to include a pretty good 4 pager by someone named Kelly Sills at a document entitled County Charter and Freeholders Explained. There are also a couple of documents showing what others have done.

roger — August 8, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///William F. Buckley Flogged Himself to Get Through Atlas Shrugged/// nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 1:06 p.m

It was probably those pages-long diatribal, sermonized, and moralizing monologues and soliloquies about the 'unwashed poor' and their brutish drooling focus on getting something for nothing, all paid for by the innocent and creative (and youthful looking) rich.

My, and to think I thought reading Wm. F. Buckley was a bit of a slog (flog?)... who would have guessed he was so discriminate.

jacjak — August 8, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 8, 2013 at 5:30 a.m.

Apparently the judge refused to let the "stand by" attorneys escape, if that's the word for it.

Several of the things that Manning sent off to Wikileaks were depictions of illegal behavior. Given the length of time that this has been going on and the secrecy that has been imposed by the Army and the lack of media attention from anyone but Firedog Lake and a couple of other blogs it is very difficult to find any accurate information.

We seem to have a bit of a word usage problem. In the 30 years that I had a security clearance while either in or working for the Army I don't recall signing anything that could be considered a non disclosure statement. At least every 5 years I would sign my background update attesting that it was all true, and every now and then I'd sign a statement that said I had read a couple of paragraphs (say NATO or some such) and once my clearance went into the stratospheric range I'd go into some dungeon and read a couple of paragraphs and sign a statement that I had indeed read them but I never signed anything that I consider a non disclosure statement.

dfsadfh — August 8, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Face Book...sigh

///Derek Medina Posts Photo Of Wife's Body, Murder Confession To Facebook (PHOTO)///

A horrifying crime scene in South Miami hit Facebook Thursday when a man posted a photo of his dead wife -- and a confession that he had killed her.

Derek Medina posted the photo some time around noon Thursday, with the words "Rip Jennifer Alfonso." The image shows his wife's body slumped backwards from her knees on the floor in what appears to be the couple's kitchen. Her face and arms are covered in blood.

"You will see me in the news," reads a confessional status update posted minutes before the photo:

Im going to prison or death sentence for killing my wife love you guys miss you guys takecare Facebook people you will see me in the news" my wife was punching me and I am not going to stand anymore with the abuse so I did what I did I hope u understand me "
Medina drove himself to the South Miami Police Department and turned himself in.

The Miami-Dade Police Department, who are now investigating the case, said detectives found Alfonso dead from apparent gunshot wounds when they responded to the home.

They also found Alfonso's 10-year-old daughter unharmed inside.

[[[[[Miami New Times reports Medina has authored a number of self-help e-books, including one titled "How I Saved Someone's Life and Marriage and Family Problems Thru Communication."]]]]]

Incredibly, his grisly posts remained published on Facebook until just before 5 p.m. Thursday, when they appeared to have been removed.

nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the freeholder link, roger. I did a quick skim moments ago, but I'll thoroughly peruse in the morning.

Drift — August 8, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

dfsadfh — August 8, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.

Here's a recent version - the one Manning would have signed. Para 11 on page 2 was updated to include the Whistleblower Protection Act and to explain where that was applicable. It's also what that Seal had used against him to force him to turn over the royalties from his book - after they backed off and decided not to prosecute.

I signed a fairly similar version in every assignment where I dealt with any kind of classified information (which was all of them except for my first and last assignments).

roger — August 8, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift - I need to get educated myself - just in case the unthinkable happens and I actually get the nomination. (In which case I'll be sure to ask Nails to write my Basement victory speech.) One thing I'll have to learn is the differences between growth management and annexation. It seems the first is beyond the purview of the County, yet they were able to block Royce Pollard's 2006 annexation of the Orchards/Sifton area because he failed to meet either of the acceptable methods of gaining our agreement. And I believe there was some ill will over how Battle Ground did their last annexation a few years ago (but I didn't follow this closely enough to comment further). I would definitely push to have the County oversee all annexations, if this would be something they could do.

roger — August 8, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know, the numbers finally started clicking, and I think there's more to this CRC resurrection than we're hearing. The latest article says they believe they can bring the project in for around $2.75 billion. And The Oregonian supports that this figure includes the New Starts $850 mil to bring light rail to Vancouver. Over on facebook, a couple of people are asking what they think it will connect to if the revised project only goes to SR14. That's a good question; one with only one possible answer if this is actually a serious attempt to bring the project back. This would require the agreement of Vancouver City Council - which has been very quiet since this came up. (I expect next Monday's Council meeting is going to be well attended by both sides of this issue.) And to make this happen they would also need to figure out how to wrest control of the light rail O&M; from the C-Tran Board. Because there is no way New Starts will cough up that $850 mil unless everything required for it is in place.

Yep - That silence from Vancouver is a little bit disturbing. I suspect that message from Ann Rivers was directed their way as much as Kitz's.

roger — August 8, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger if you do win can all us of here in the basement be your cabinet appointees.We would require rather a rather large wage with all benifits.

timerick — August 8, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 8, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.

Hey Roger, I see that Yancy is running in the third. This is the guy that got "pissed" because the City sold the old city hall building and he wanted to know if he could still use the bathrooms when he is waiting for the bus.

Well, I'm here to tell ya, the bathrooms are gone. HaHa!

hawkeye — August 8, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 8, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.

Consider it on the house. We'll think good thoughts like Romney, and not have a concession speech at the ready.

Maybe that was a poor example.

I think you should consider hiring a person or two to work the phones, and two babes, one acting conservative and one acting liberal going door to door. As a new found politician and someone who comes across as honest, it's best to have two mouths speak for you until you learn to speak out of both sides of yours.

One babe could placate the prospective voter, while the other was made to look foolish in their views. Kinda like what Chris Wallace does to Juan Williams on Fox News Sunday. But better looking.

Not to mention you make yourself out to be a job creator. I'll screen applicants au gratis.

Seeing hows you have a government job, you must have loads & loads of spare time. (your 'government' job should be downplayed to avoid a potential scandal) Get as much campaign stuff done at work as you can, to include (ahem) borrowing materials and using equipment.

We'll need to make copies of your opponents flyers and "hire" a couple of homeless people to go door to door representing them.

Fired Up And Ready To Go!

nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 10:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 8, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.

I do not claim to be an expert on Ayn Rand. I also do not claim to be an expert on Shakespeare, Milton or the Music Man. I read three of her novels when I was much younger, and a biography on her later, as well as countless exerts by her and about her, and likely have a decent understanding of her Objectivism. I trust this is also the case more often than not, with anyone who has some fundamentals in the physical sciences (versus the social sciences). Her book “We The Living”, her first I believe, was made into a movie in Italy way back, which was banned by the Mussolini Fascists, when they realized its anti-authoritarian message. That movie really fits the phrase “dark and dreary” if anything ever did.

There is nothing mysterious about her ideas. Except to people like you. I’ve mentioned Locke’s political philosophy any number of times, and its importance to the founding documents of this country. The Columbian had a short editorial a while back over this. Rand never mentioned anything about Locke so far as I know, which suprises me, as it seems that their ideas are both based on the primacy of the individual. Locke was also one of the early progenitors in the field of epistemology, which was one of Rand’s major interests. All about; what is knowledge? Real interesting when you think about it. Like: what is truth?

Rand was invited to the launch of Apollo 11, by Nixon, whom from what I’ve seen, she didn’t much care for; nor anyone else in politics. She was not against government per se (See above).To understand this: one has to understand the nature of achievement. She called it hero worship. Looking toward the persons and the ideas that make humankind truly progress. Mondale back then, was a detractor of the manned space program. It was along the lines of the country having to take care of everyone before the country can spend money on sending man into space. That was a common thought back then. So just when is that going to happen? Not ever. So just where does the constitutional justification come from for the Socialist State? Well, actually I could answer that, but I’ll leave that misbegotten misinterpretation up to you, though I’ve mentioned this numbers of times before.

kn_dalai — August 8, 2013 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You seen this guy Elon Musk? He’s in the news again. Sixty minutes had a segment on him a year ago. Maybe two. He’s got his Tesla motors, and he’s got his Space X. Cutting edge stuff. A man with a vision and the wherewithal. A while back I mentioned this former, long time, Clark County Commissioner, who got into the private sector after a lifetime in the public sector, who had a eye opener and commented on how he previously had no idea on how fast things could get done in the private sector. Once again: have you people ever truly asked yourselves about the difference between the Union of Soviet SOCIALST Republics and the USA? Hey manthou, just think of all that money Musk could have given to charity. Then what?

Government must be all things to all people, since all people are citizens and have input. That’s real fine, but a zebra is a horse designed by committee. It also subsumes one’s private life, and eventual success to to the state. And some of you wonder why government is slow, and, well “watered down”. And that’s just the benign early part of it. (See above).

Austerity nail? Check out Ireland versus Greece. When Greece says “get lost” to their money funders; and since their income is less than their expenditures; just where does the difference come from? And what happens when they can no longer borrow the difference? It’s really hard to know where to start, but I think it has something to do with a socialist welfare state that decided that the state had to take care of everyone but found out their borrowing power had limits.

Nailingit: your little Leftist author is yet another hit piece and is a blatant hit piece. To wit: Scientology has no comparison to the Libertarian Party or beliefs. To wit: Ayn Rand ideas are hardly a “cult”. You’ll find those ideas of personal liberty at the heart of this country. To wit: Ayn Rand is one of the most well read and influencial authors/philosophers of all time. This is a really pathetic little Leftist, wordsmithing for effect rather than any substance. Your little Leftist author relies on Vidal, a noteable Leftist, and Krugman, another darling iof the Left, for support. Gee whiz, imagine that. Opinions upon opinions.

kn_dalai — August 8, 2013 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — August 8, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.

I think there was an 80 page diatribe in Atlas shrugged that the publisher wanted to cut out. But Rand insisted. Perhaps that's the diatribe you're talking about.

"She has a great attraction for simple people who are puzzled by organized society, who object to paying taxes, who dislike the ‘welfare’ state, who feel guilt at the thought of the suffering of others but who would like to harden their hearts. For them, she has an enticing prescription: altruism is the root of all evil, self-interest is the only good, and if you’re dumb or incompetent that’s your lookout."

See nailingit@ August 8, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.

Don't know, but it sounds to me that it's this Gore Vidal character who is actually the one who is bashing the unwashed masses. Which is likely anyone who doesn't like his little digs at us stupid little people who don't subscribe to his little elitist Socialist state. Just a thought.

kn_dalai — August 8, 2013 at 11:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Right's comparing America to Greece in order to trump austerity measures are more than intellectually dishonest. What next, are we converting to the Euro? Talk about a broad bias brush. BTW, at what rate is our deficit growing since Obama came into office. Or would it be shrinking.

You answered no questions, but ask questions of others.

Without applying your novelist Rand's musings to our 21st century, they become nothing more than, (here I go again, but given your past criticisms, I feel as though I have a quota) "Pie In The Sky" thought.

Here's the infamous Wallace interview. Rand is more than scary. Her eyes are as vacant as is her sense of self importance. How anyone, let alone a large faction of people glom onto this Russian Atheist zombies vision for America is beyond me.

That's the only thing I find mysterious about her fantasy writes.

A blast from the past. From the Horses...mouth.

Btw, it's nice to have a somewhat reasonable discourse with you. Sort of.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 12:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"What I remembered most about Mrs. Carmodie was she had a double-decker butt. While normal butts curve like the letter C, Mrs. Carmodie’s butt got halfway through the C, then extended several inches in a straight line like some sort of shelf before finishing the curve. The shelf on her butt was wide enough to hold two cans of soda."

~John Locke~

"Locke was also one of the early progenitors in the field of epistemology,..."

Plato would be proud.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 1:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I've seen the name "Ayn Rand" bantered about. Not being into politics much I've barely paid attention. Again, curiosity got the best of me and I went to the link nails offered.
Heck, I watched all three parts and then a Phil Donahue interview as well.

Though I don't thoroughly agree with her philosophy I do believe she makes some good points. And now I know how to pronounce "Ayn." I've been saying "Ann" all this time ;^)

Drift — August 9, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Watched all of about 5 mins of the Ayn Rand clip, the woman gave me the creeps.

Those vacant eyes, ever shifting, looking downward to the left, never really connecting with Wallace's, (shutter) too much vodka in the wee hours of the night, lying, or just plain deep end of insanity.

soul_pancake — August 9, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 12:12 a.m.

Actually, the comparision was between Ireland and Greece. They’ve both enacted austerity measures.

The Left keeps insisting that everything is different now. Really? So that should mean that the Bill of Rights is also obslolete. Pop culture comes and goes, certain human truths are immuteable. The hive mentality of some in the last century, will not have any better results in this century. I think it’s something about doing the same thing over and over….

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 1:20 a.m

Check out Locke’s “An Essay Concerning Human Understanding”. A seminal work in the field of epistemology.

kn_dalai — August 9, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - It's an unpaid position, so I could afford to pay my cabinet members about a $1 per month. Benefits will have to be intangible in nature.

Nails - Seeing as how you have experience with civilian government jobs that is far more extensive than mine, I'll only argue one point. The young lady who sits at the desk next to mine controls all those supplies that I might consider "borrowing" - and she's a real hard ass when it comes to saving the taxpayer dollar. I buy a lot of my own stuff, because I got tired of explaining why I threw away the cheap ass pen she gave me last week and I want another one. So, unfortunately, I won't be able to go the route you suggest. As for the door to door babes recommendation - they'll be babes with brains. I heard on the Bob and Tom radio show that a Vanity Fair poll says guys are attracted to this. And I flashed back on my own meeting with Monica when she was running and decided they're definitely right there - it certainly helped her get my vote.

roger — August 9, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye -

You've got to give Yancey credit for trying. He'll be going up against the also outspoken Jimmy Tee.

The list of candidates is getting quite interesting - some heavy hitters are getting involved.

For District 1, Joe Zarelli signed up yesterday; he and Ann Rivers would make a formidable enough team. Sheriff Lucas, Julie Olson, Troy Maxcy and Randy Mueller are also among the names I recognize.

District 3 has some interesting races developing. Sunrise O'Mahoney is going up against Pat Jollota and Carolyn Crain. Jim Moeller will square off against Debbie Peterson. Temple Lentz is facing a lot of unknowns, though I'm thinking Mike Barry is a frequent facebook commenter.

District 2 is Marc Boldt and a bunch of no namers. Well, not quite. I checked Paul Dennis out after noting his e-mail addres, and he appears to be a heavy hitter in the Camas/Washougal area. Ruh-Roh!!! I suppose enough people remember liking Judie Stanton as County Commish too.

And I suspect a few more names will pop up today.

roger — August 9, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Reading the bits-n-pieces about the Greek Cypriot teen about connecting with Cypriot-Turkish teens. It's great what he is doing and sad that some of his buddies stopped talking to him. Excellent article! As a northern Greek, I am not surprised that his "buddies" stopped talking to him. It all stems back to the Greeks and Turks fighting for gawd knows how long. It's along the same line of the Palestinians and Israeli's feuding for so long! You can't really tell who started it. Probably sounds strange me saying that and some are probably scratching their heads (or balls lol) going huh??? I hope more Greek's will reach out and more Turkish people will reach out to each other. But sometimes, drama makes the world go round.

mxfun118 — August 9, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 8, 2013 at 8:22 p.m.

Okay, thanks. Seems that I am a bit too old. I'd been retired for around two years before the ODNI came into existence and started in with new forms to sign. Pretty much explains why I had never heard of non disclosure statements.

dfsadfh — August 9, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 9, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.

One wonders, what kind of guy responds to a Vanity Fair poll?

As far as supplies...I confess to be only kidding. One of my +'s (or -'s) is that I'm honest as the day is long. I can't even be undercharged for something at the store without telling the cashier.

The Sunrise-Crain matchup is a doozy. Good vs Evil.

"Mindful" Moeller taking on "Big Guns" Peterson could get ugly in a hurry. Paramedics on stand-by.

If it's within the Freeholders purview, I strongly suggest you make a proposal that bans professional politicians from applying for FreeHolder positions.

It'd be popular with the people as well as being totally right on. Extract the Moeller's and dam the River's from participating in this process. I see some of the names and it's like nothings going to change, except the further entrenchment of well known politico's.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Boy Nail you hit it right on the head.The professional politicians already have their own agendas made.We have all seen them.Whether we agree with people like Roger or not at least the ideas are fresh and have not been exposed to mindless thinking.My hope is that some of these people are going to be as well informed as Roger.It takes a lot of research and work to articulate the thoughts back to those that are willing to listen.

timerick — August 9, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- I think these Pro's getting into this pollutes the reasoning for having Free Holders. What good can possibly come from it. People who are politically connected up the wazoo will have advantages during and after elections.


nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- Sorry for the incomplete post @ 1:26. Meant for...

I think these Pro's getting into this pollutes the reasoning for having Free Holders. What good can possibly come from it. People who are politically connected up the wazoo will have advantages during and after elections.

Newbies will be influenced from these guys in some way.

If roger starts hitting the local bistro's with the likes of Juan "BadBoy" Benton, while expecting us to pay for his dry cleaning, he's out the fracking door also. :)

One of the good aspects of this freeholder thing, is that everyone is (I believe) up for re-election every year.

One of the FH requirements is to be a resident for five years. It's hard enough for old farts moving here to forge connections, jobs or otherwise, now we're being told we can't participate in the Free Holder process.

Democracy. Such a convoluted process.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, I'm sort of torn on the "pros" being elected. What is it, 15 spots? I'm thinking 3 or so being experienced politicians might not actually be a bad thing.

Remember folks, all the Freeholders do is draft a charter(s). Said charter must abide by "the laws of the land." Heck, now that I think on it 3 or so attorneys might be better.

The county citizens must vote in whatever the Freeholders draft. Or not.

I really do need to spend an afternoon doing some research on this whole thing. I mean, right now I'm wondering what 100 names on a ballot is going to cost.

I'd suggest we all do some studying on the thing before getting wound up in the comments and opinions. You know, that's just my opinion ;^)

Drift — August 9, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with some of what you say Drift except the part about attorneys.I think they would muck up the process to where the average joe won't be able to understand it.I would also like to see some background on the ones running.But I bet the cost would blow you away.

timerick — August 9, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- One or two attorneys not directly involved would suffice. Some might do it au gratis in their spare time, if they're community involved or would see some benefit from it.

The thought of professional politicians and lawyers being needed, possibly dominating the scene or touting their creds as an advantage seeking Freeholder positions...naw, we have that now. That's kinda getting away from the spirit of the thing.

I agree we need to do more research on Free Holders. At least I know I do.

But getting wound up with comments and opinions is what many times drives a solid discussion, as well as providing a pathway to a better learning experience.

I mean, look how many Republicans/Conservatives have posted here over the years, confused, indoctrinated, not knowing what the hell they are talking about.

Only to find refuge, as will as experience tranquillity and understanding in the comforting, yet knowledgeable wisdom of the progressives/liberals who post here.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It sounds like Republican leaders need to take a field trip. They should invite Scalia & Thomas as well.

///GOP's Eric Cantor is Dems' unlikely ally on Voting Rights Act///

Cantor, a staunch conservative who spars regularly with Democratic leaders over the size and reach of the federal government, might seem an improbable voice for strengthening Washington's oversight of state and local elections.

But a March trip with Lewis to Selma, Ala., site of a watershed civil rights march in 1965, left an impression on the Virginia Republican, who described it as "a profound experience" illustrating "the fortitude it took to advance civil rights and ensure equal protection for all."

"I'm hopeful Congress will put politics aside, as we did on that trip, and find a responsible path forward that ensures that the sacred obligation of voting in this country remains protected," Cantor said in June, responding to the court's ruling.

Read more:
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I am not a republican or Democrat.But after reading here I am very tranquil and comforted.Thought it was the reading but then again it could be the 2 or 3 glass of Merlo that I have in the evening.

timerick — August 9, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- LOL- I'd put my money on the Merlo!

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — August 9, 2013 at 3 p.m.

Wow! It's true..the Crain has been redlined!

That race would've been brutal.

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Crain is still running. Scroll down. Games.

langenthal — August 9, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I smell a payoff!

nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Are we going to be regretting what we wished for?

Will this bring the crazies out of the woodwork to vote in November?

langenthal — August 9, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lots of posturing. I still think the Peterson/Moeller race is going to be the bloodiest. Roger has the fewest in his group. Some are only going to win by 3 or 4 votes.

hawkeye — August 9, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah, but I just checked out my three opponents - I am toast.

Dennis is the ex-Mayor of Camas, who resigned to lead the Camas/Washougal Economic Development Assn. He ought to have a solid backing from the east County business community.

Delavar is a perennial Repub candidate for everything. He was on the Washougal City Council, but lost last election. He seems to be a "live wire." He may have a few backers, but I'm not exactly impressed.

Mishchuk just may be the favorite. He's a local insurance agent with extensive ties in the local Russian community AND he's a member of Living Hope and is involved in their African charity. I suspect Madore will rally the troops behind him. That's at least two solid voting blocs he has to draw on.

Oh well. My best bet is to work on that 200 word statement and hope it will attract some support. As for my "basement victory speech", perhaps Nails should prepare a eulogy instead.

roger — August 9, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Crain is hoping Val Ogden and Rob Figley cancel each other out and let her sneak in. Pat Jollota and Sunrise O'Mahoney should also be interesting - The old order and a popular newcomer in the local Democratic scene. Maybe Manthou can help push her young candidate to victory?

roger — August 9, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You’ve got it all wrong Roger. Don’t let THEM set the agenda. You can’t win if you run against them on their turf. Same ole, same ole. That’s what they expect. You’ve got to turn the tables on them and FORCE them to meet you on YOUR turf.

If there’s anything this forum has shown; it’s that Pro wrestling is really popular.

You’ll have to spend a few bucks on a good costume, but what I’m thinking is something like “Roger the Re-enforcer” and you come out to debate dressed as REBAR. And your tag line is “I hold the walls up when others crumble”. Then throw in a couple body slams and a Full Nelson . Now I ask you : who can possibly compete with THAT? No one, that’s who!

kn_dalai — August 9, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It sounds like Republican leaders need to take a field trip. They should invite Scalia & Thomas as well. -- nailingit — August 9, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.


Reminds me of Liberal Democrat former long term third Congressional Representative Brian Baird.

"Baird, who voted against the Iraq war in 2002 and supported a Democratic plan in March to bring combat troops home next year, changed his mind about the troop escalation after a mid-August visit to Iraq."



kn_dalai — August 9, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 9, 2013 at 10:52 p.m.

I respect a politician's decision to change their mind when they experience something first hand that caused it. Or anyone for that matter, if they have a solid rationale for doing so.

Perhaps emotionally driven changes, such as Cantor has experienced, empathetically play into existing personal bias.

I think of someone as powerful as Eric Cantor being the only sitting Jew in the House of Reps, understanding the problems in the Middle East, as well as it's history, I can't help but think he's reminded of his heritage daily.

Maybe experiencing the people, the times and the place, caused him to ponder the very recent past of his own people.

That or some great fried chicken, biscuits and gravy got the best of him.


As for Baird...

[[Baird said he would be willing to support a tax increase to continue operations in Iraq, in light of recent news reports that the White House may ask for another $50 billion for the war.
"Yes, we're going to need some more money," he said.]]

Just another leftist looking for an excuse to raise taxes. :)

nailingit — August 10, 2013 at 12:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 9, 2013 at 8:13 p.m.

"Yeah, but I just checked out my three opponents - I am toast."

I agree with knd's attitude. Take it to them.

A Russian Born Again supporting Africans? Hire a P.I. You gotta know somethings wrong in Denmark with this one.

You may be toast-but you're American Toast On White. (one down two to go)

Ex-Mayors always leave a flea dirt trail. Get one of your homeless door to door people on this one.

Perennial Repub candidate=LOSER!!! No better talking point.

I see you having this thing locked up pretty quick.

No eulogies. Buck Up!

Fired Up And Ready To Go!

nailingit — August 10, 2013 at 12:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with Nails Roger.Let us know if we can help.Go Roger

timerick — August 10, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea Roger, we all know you've got it in you. You've proved that time and time again right here. If I could vote for you, I would but I'm not moving just for that. Maybe if you could point out some more attractive reasons to live where you are. Oh well.

Say, anybody need any apples for feed? I've got lots on the ground and one of my older trees fell over, uprooted itself, because it was too heavy.

hawkeye — August 10, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you for the pep talks, Basement friends.

kn_dalai - What about the foreign object hidden in the tights, and jabbed to the opponent's throat when the ref isn't looking?

Actually, I'm not entirely sold on raising the number of Comms from 3 to 5. It will probably just create a lot more of the we vs they between Vancouver and the rest of the County - especially if the districts are drawn by population centers and this gives Vancouver three seats.

What I would push for is the County Executive position, with all administrative control (to include hiring) under that office. Where I think I (probably) differ from many is that I don't see that as being an elective office; I'd rather hire a professional city manager who has a solid resume.

roger — August 10, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai - What about the foreign object hidden in the tights, and jabbed to the opponent's throat when the ref isn't looking? -- roger — August 10, 2013 at 9:12 a.m

This should be required viewing for all high school students so they can learn about politics.

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn_dalai that would be jabbed or better yet stabbed in the back.

timerick — August 10, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now that's the old Four Horsemen trick - Ric Flair distracts the ref, while my favorite of all time Arn Anderson sneaks into the ring and, catching Ric's opponent unaware, scoop slams him into la-la land. Then Ric throws on the figure four and makes the guy suffer a bit.

roger — August 10, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The more I think about this wrestling thing, the more I like it. Maybe throw in a mud pit.

One thing that's wrong with the county charter movement is that it’s been a knee jerk reaction to Madore. Everytime a president has won election by less than a majority of the popular vote, there are calls for discarding the Electoral College. What goes around comes around.

Roger, I think you’re right to question the call for five instead of three. Just more expense. I think it was you who questioned the election of all commissioners by a countywide vote for each. Seems reasonable to vote for only one according to district of residence. I don’t know that I agree with the parliamentary like idea of the commssioners selecting the executive, or even a seperate executive to begin with, but it’s worth consideration. Should be lots of lively debate on it all.

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Could someone explain to me why it would cost 200k to do a audit of the CRC.These auditors already work for the state don't they?If so then they are already on the payroll.They are going to get paid if they do a audit or not.We are not hiring any new workers are we?

timerick — August 10, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the conversation - It's helping me zero in on what I need to say in my 200 word campaign statement.

roger — August 10, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I saw where you asked that question earlier, and I don't know that I have an answer. I see the article was updated a while ago, and from the wording, perhaps the reporter is wondering the same thing?

Still, it prompted my own comment. According to the article, the legislative audit office would focus on state agencies, while the state audit office will have the focus of the contract itself. To be honest, I think this will be a wasted $200K - we're going to get the same answers as when Acuity brought up the many overruns last year. Why WSDOT appears to be unable to oversee their contracts to ensure compliance seems a bigger concern to me.

roger — August 10, 2013 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""""Then throw in a couple body slams and a Full Nelson . Now I ask you : who can possibly compete with THAT? No one, that’s who!""""

Make that a "Full Neilson!"

Roger...for what it's worth, you've got my vote!!! We NEED level-headed people representing the people and you've proven yourself time and time again here on the forum and on the FB side! Don't underestimate your abilities!!!

goldenoldie — August 10, 2013 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm thinking I'm going to run on having myself appointed Kounty King. Glad I have one vote!!!

roger — August 10, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 10, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.

That's one vote closer to nailing the position...8))

Now don't go gettin' a swelled head or nuthin', Roger. Just keep doin' what you're doin'. Honesty and integrity go a long way in my book. It is obvious that any time I've posted something directed towards you, it has been my impression that you have taken the time to weigh the information presented and to reach a well-thought conclusion based on information rather than responding for personal gains. That is a big plus in your favor.

As far as those who have a big name in the community...sometimes that big name comes with a big ego and hidden agendas. Anybody who takes the time to vote this November should already see how certain individuals running are doing it just to grab a stranglehold on the people and take away our rights even further. Even some of those who are vying for the position they choose have proven all too well that they have only their personal vested interests rather than the concerns of the people. One in particular is currently a member of the Washington State House of Representatives. Makes you wonder if he already knows his time is limited at the state level, lol. Then again, this is just my little ol' opinion.

We need fresh faces in local government. I am confident that you are a good choice for the people.

goldenoldie — August 10, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 10, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.

Full Neilson: doggedly hurling In-depth , fact based arguments, faster than a speeding bullet, at Pied Piper pretender contenders. Usually leaving political opponents speechless, stammering and looking for a backdoor deal.

I think you’re onto something there goldenoldie. You’ve just invented a new political lexicon. History in the making.

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK. Now the honeymoon’s over. Time to really look into this roger person. (And find someway to rip him apart).

Question 1) Is it true, 50 years ago, as a school crosswalk patrol guard, you pulled little Betty Sue’s pigtails, causing her to shriek, and suffer irreparable humiliation, for which the school district had to settle for $5000 and 15 cents, plus expenses?

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger thanks for the response on both sides.But I stll say they get paid one way or the other.I can't understand where they say it will cost 200k.They already work for the state so the cost should be included in their wages.Am I missing something here?

timerick — August 10, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 6:08 p.m.

You dug deep, but I dug even deeper.

53 years ago his name wasn't even Roger, it was Arthur. He was the head of the Nielsen ratings company and was a rich mogul in the new TV world. Arthur actually called people himself to find out what they were watching and what kind of shows they liked. He was a big fan of Lucille Ball, something about that red hair got him all excited. So excited it seems that one day he accidentally stepped into Buck Rogers time machine and transported himself from an adult back to a child when he became "Roger" and got the prestigious job of crossing guard some 3 years later.

Now you know the rest of the story.

hawkeye — August 10, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

He also changed his name from Nielsen to Neilson, but that’s what that Buck Roger’s time machine did to people back then. Thank Gawd we now have progressive government to stop that kind of thing.

kn_dalai — August 10, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually 50 years ago I lived in Brigantine NJ. That was 1963, the year JFK was shot. It was a cute little blond haired girl named Patty. I was the one with red(dish) hair. I walked her home from school, and was met at the front by her father and an older brother. Father was in the Atlantic City branch of the Mafia (he was gunned down several months later) - my name didn't end in an 'i' and he didn't want me anywhere near sweet young Patty. Older brother was sent to chase me down the street and get that message set firmly in my brain. Dear young Patty recovered by the next day and was soon walking with another boy (who probably also received the same lesson I did - David had blond hair and wasn't Italian). I was traumatized for at least two weeks, until another cute girl named Bridgett allowed me to walk with her along the beach throwing seashells into the ocean. I'm sure I learned several of life's little lessons then, but we guys are notoriously forgetful about the finer points of these things, so....

roger — August 10, 2013 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — August 11, 2013 at 6:40 a.m.


You don't understand the concept of fun conversation??? I find it quite refreshing the narratives of Nailingit, Kn_dalai, Roger and Hawkeye (...even though in my case, I'm serious what I said about Roger's jump into the ring of politics. I think he's got a fighting chance and working towards a positive change for Clark County rather than just BS'ing about it). The aforementioned conversation is a great break away from the monotony of all that is bad in the world. It definitely brought a little smile to this face.

If you find Vancouver so boring...why hang around? You'd be surprised at what you'd find if you'd just open your eyes to what our town has to offer, holyc. Not everything has to be blasted across a TV screen in order to be fun. Sometimes the funnest times are right in your own neighborhood...hidden gems.

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The other day, I shared in a nice discussion with a couple in my neighborhood who I barely knew other than the fact that he has collector cars and rides a Hawg and she is his wife of less than 5 years. He was concerned the Harley would disrupt the sleeping behaviors of neighbors (including our home which he drives by on his way to work) whenever he uses it. I told him it's a passive alarm clock and weather machine. He asked me what I meant by weather machine. I responded with a smile..."If I hear your Hawg, I know the weather will be nice for the day." It broke the ice so to speak.

By the end of our evening discussion, both couples had a renewed sense of having good neighbors and all that it has to offer.

Just for the heck of it, I ran across this idea...for the neighbors to all join together and share in what they have to offer...meaning in the sense of vegetables, fruit, chicken eggs, homemade bread...whatever. For those who have a purple thumb and don't have fruit trees, veggies or chickens for eggs...or couldn't afford it - they wouldn't be left out in the cold. This would be a neighborhood venture to include neighbors helping supplement the family pantries. My friends as I now call them...they were interested. They made a silly comment, stating "What if all anyone has to offer is zucchini???" I'm sure there's someone who would take it...including the Clark County Food Bank. It might be the start of a new trend for our neighborhood...maybe for all of Clark County. Talk about a great way to put our county on the map!!!

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The comments under the Columbo drug bust article are already getting, uh, interesting.

Sue is praised for her knowledge of pharmaceuticals by Luana - after stating Vicodin and Oxycontin are one in the same and spelling oxycontin "oxycondin."

Del appears to have the opinion the best way to deal with drug abuse is to lock up the peddlers forever.

I'm guessing the "show" has just begun. By the end of the day there ought'a be some real wing-ding comments.

[link text][1]


Drift — August 11, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A quote attributed to Jerry Garcia which sums the Portland experiment up quite neatly --

"It's pretty clear now that what looked like it might have been some kind of counterculture is, in reality, just the plain old chaos of undifferentiated weirdness."

roger — August 11, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola, anybody with a lick of sense knows that when there isn't the funding to support a trendy idea, you make do with what you have in your midst. You take a look around and see what your community...your county has to offer and improve what you have. Clark County already has a "tourist destination" as you referred. Yes, the tourist destination we have is limited to a certain part of Americana...but it's what we have.

You have visions of mega-monster developments along the waterfront which are obviously not suitable for our location. Maybe along the coastline, but not here along the Columbia Waterfront. If one of those went in, it would be an eyesore as it wouldn't fit the landscape.

As far as the music culture of Clark aren't looking at the picture for what a County Fair is all about. Have you ever looked at the venues who frequent the Amphitheater every year? We already have musicians booked there, and the selection is vast. Even Portland tried to claim a recent venue as our amphitheater. Why is it they don't have their own?

Now bring something to Clark County, similar to the Lark Music Festival in Mendocino last week (see link below)...then THERE'S where you bring world cultures to our wonderful community. I could actually picture something like that going on in a place like Battleground Lake or even near Lewisville Park...or best yet - at Alderbrook Park!!! This is something that doesn't belong at the amphitheater. It has to be a woodland setting; something our county is filled with. It wouldn't have to be a week long to be enjoyable. Even a weekend event would be a joy.

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Boy oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! (truly upsetting what I just read from two different entities...shaking my head in disgust)

Columbian...if what is written on Lew Waters' Wordpress blog today is true...What do you have to say for yourselves???

As Gomer Pyle, USMC would say as he shook his head from side to side...

For Shame! For Shame!!!

The G.O.B.K. is pulling out the stops on this one...using you like pawns in their filthy game!!!

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 10:39 a.m

And if you believe ANYTHING Lew writes, you are dumber than dirt.

Take all the T party's garbage, mix in a little Republican't hatred and a touch of old Testament for good measure and it almost comes out Lew. You'd have to throw in at least 20 full blown left wingers to come out even.

HEY HC, you are all class. Lower class but class all the same.

hawkeye — August 11, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — Well Stated. I would hate to wrestle him. He's an oil checker if I ever saw one.

nailingit — August 11, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If he wrestled, his name would be Quaker State.

There'd be more spillage than Senior Day at Oil Can Henry's.

nailingit — August 11, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Well, Well.....

Looks like the Republican'ts in office are going to have to get off the pot and actually do something if this ACA is going to work....since THEY are going to be buyers! It's about friggin' time they got the same treatment as everyone else.

hawkeye — August 11, 2013 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another Oregonian journalist has seen the light on the CRC. Steve Duin is questioning the sanity of some Oregonians wanting to push forward with the project, no matter what.

"But what's more troubling? That we rarely agree on the obligations funded by our tax dollars? Or that the governing authorities so often build bridges over, and light-rail lines around, votes of the people?"

roger — August 11, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Remember how we were told C-Tran will be in charge of the light rail operation once in Washington? Per the New Starts analysis of the project - "TriMet would operate and maintain the LRT extension."

And is the CRC's comparison of the costs of LRT and BRT, where they maintained LRT would be cheaper, still valid? Southwest Washington RTC's analysis from 2008 said BRT would be cheaper than LRT for Clark County high capacity transit network development. And if we're going to now have a 4th Plain BRT in the works - one that travels the same route into downtown - then the only CRC-related cost would be to have a dedicated lane on the bridge (much cheaper than a dedicated level with tracks), and the fuel to run that additional mile or two.

roger — August 11, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 11, 2013 at 3:46 p.m

Pretty interesting, Roger. If I was going to replace the I-5 bridge, I'd do the same thing they did in the other Washington. They built a drawbridge to let the really big boats thru while allowing 95% of the river traffic go under without bothering the freeway traffic.

Oh, and no light rail.

hawkeye — August 11, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, I'd seen the information which Lew presented in his blog, elsewhere before reading his blog. If this is true sickens me to think they'd be going beyond the scope of fair and balanced news reporting...and for what? A hidden agenda???

Regarding Lew's site...I wasn't born yesterday. I can obviously see the side his writes I do here on the Columbian as well. Because I've posted on his site...doesn't mean I always agree with the man. Heck, I post on this site and most the time I disagree with what I'm reading. I'll admit...some things I do agree on Lew's site but not because of the emotion generated by his writes. It's because of the facts which generated the responses.

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — August 11, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

I still cannot figure how they claim LRT would be more cost effective since $800m of the project cost goes just to construction of the blasted loo rail line in the first place. Then, there's operations and maintenance of not only the trains themselves, but of the overhead lines, the poles, switches and cables, traffic lights dedicated for light rail and the rails and the ground beneath them as well.

They've truly buffaloed the fools who have supported this project for so long. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the misinformation provided by the CRC and their failed propaganda. The horse has been dead for awhile now. They need to leave it alone.

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh yeah...there's also the inspection and maintenance of the dedicated deck of the bridge FOR light rail, too. With BRT, it's only one lane of an existing bridge dedicated to move commuters efficiently.

goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nothing but curiosity, but I notice that Moeller and Figley have nearly the same adress.

This is really, really speculation. But I see a possiblity that one of the occassional forum contributors may be another FH candidate.

And Roger, I hope you’re going to submit a photo of yourself and a website along with your 200 words.

kn_dalai — August 11, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The pamphlet I received said 100 words; I'm at 97. Haircut today, and I'll get the photo tomorrow. Why would I need my own website?

roger — August 11, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is kind of interesting....

SEOUL (Reuters) - General Motors Co. (GM) has begun gradually cutting its presence in South Korea after mounting labor costs and militant unionism triggered a rethink of its reliance on the country for a fifth of its global production, three individuals familiar with GM's thinking said.

hawkeye — August 11, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One hundred words and you're asking why you need your own website?

I really don't know how these things work. But I believe word press and others may offer a low cost web presence to get your message out.

kn_dalai — August 11, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger ---

Over 1000 hits in a little over an hour

langenthal — August 11, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, I don't give a rip about "class".

holycrapola — August 11, 2013 at 7:47 p.m

Well, that's pretty apparent.

hawkeye — August 11, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**The horse has been dead for awhile now. They need to leave it alone.
goldenoldie — August 11, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.**

hey, at least we don't have weiner on the ballot.

DeeLittle — August 12, 2013 at 3:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Why should you? You have sitting Senator David "The Diaper Don" Vitter manning the changing station..

nailingit — August 12, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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