Open forum, Dec 30-Jan 5



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Do any of you think Clark County will produce a cannabis grower/seller like the Medicine Man in Colorado?

I am beyond impressed with this operation:

manthou — December 30, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think we may have someone like that but don't know it yet. Like I said before, a lot of it has to do with start up capital and banks won't stick their necks out for a grow operation that the feds could come and take away. I puts them at too much risk.

hawkeye — December 30, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's a toss up. We have two staunch prohibitionists on the commission. I anticipate forthcoming zoning regulations so arduous they make a business enterprise near impossible. Someone might squeek through though. With adequate funding and a little luck with the site I suppose it could happen.

You are aware, aren't you, manthou, the same commission has "temporarily" banned medicinal cannabis collective gardens? If those folks have no compassion for people in (medical) dire straights I doubt growing cannabis for recreational purposes has much of a chance.

Drift — December 30, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I'll be...
Over on the FB side the "esteemed" Alison Holcomb did a drive-by:

Drift — December 30, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A Washington County transportation study I don't expect to see covered in The Columbian. A large majority of the comments are for that west side north/south route - call it I605, or whatever you want, they want more pavement. And the few who mention rail do so negatively. As one person notes, if they're not willing to stop issuing building permits, then they have to build the roads to handle the additional vehicles further construction brings.

roger — December 30, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Good find in the story above. I would have missed it with my recent travels.

Transportation needs will continue to be a hotly debated topic on both sides of the Columbia and one that will be poorly funded, if funded at all.

Washington Co is growing, especially in the Hillsboro area. I'd love a route that would get me from Vancouver to US 30 and US 26 without having to go through the mess of 405 or the danger of Cornelius Pass Road: Sharon Nasset's preferred route, I think. :) Ever follow an 18 wheeler on Cornelius Pass? They use it liberally.

As most people on here know, my personal solution to increased transportation headaches was to abandon the Portland suburbs 10 years ago for a home in the city that allows me to access services, work and fun by foot. Not an easy task, but we did it. I just don't hold out a lot of hope that our politicians, planners, and tax payers are going to reach easy and reasonable agreements and I am just getting too old to wait for them to accommodate my needs.

I absolutely dread driving to Portland, through Portland, or near Portland. Add Seattle to that list. Would light rail to Vancouver make that better? We may never know. But it is certainly a divisive topic on both sides of the river, as the article you posted demonstrates.

manthou — December 31, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift @ 1:27 PM: I was impressed with Allison Holcomb's comments on that editorial. I was surprised that she reads the Columbian. :)

manthou — December 31, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

However you may phrase your search, try Googling light rail and politics, or Political battles and light rail... whatever combination I try shows light rail as a political football, not a local, practical, expense/cost, or usage battle. From Florida, Texas, New Jersey, etc. it's almost as though commuter trains of any kind being Used to generate division. Dang, never thought I'd become one of those weird conspiracy people, but it does seem strange that the debate is with politicians and not city planners or architects or transportation, etc. A lot of political capital to be gained perhaps? Perhaps I should ask Madore or some other good citizen who just wants to save us from ourselves while bringing us 'the biggest fight of your life'. (That's the slogan on his business property about bring back prayer in schools.)

jacjak — December 31, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I can't help myself. I am a news media champion and critic.

This end-of-the-year story, publicized well by Andrew Sullivan, makes me cringe.

Does anyone remember what happened when The Seattle Times' business "suits" poisoned its journalists' credibility when they made the fiduciary decision to purchase $75,000 worth of ads for Rob McKenna's gubernatorial campaign? I do.

Time, Inc is blurring those lines on the national level now.

manthou — December 31, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 2:04

Sadly, it was just a matter of time. Time Magazine gave themselves over to so many ads years ago that I dropped my ages-long renewal subscription in a fit of pique as their articles became shorter & shorter and less relevant. That was back in the late 1990's, and haven't spent much time since reading it. American Scientific, another must-have subscription is going the same way, and their 'sugar is sugar' and 'gmo's are okay' articles made the decision for me of not renewing when the subscription runs out. Still taking UTNE and Harper's, and will renew right up til they too conform their articles to their ads. For some reason I am also receiving the Pacific Standard. Perhaps it was a gift, but read most articles. It's this coast's answer to The Atlantic according to Wikipedia , and so far mostly a good read even if I don't know why I'm receiving it.

jacjak — December 31, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An interesting site for journalists - just in case you aren't already aware of it.

This article, which discusses the transition to web based newspapers, makes the following observation - one I think our local lost sight of over the past few years.

"Democracy can exist without newspapers, but it cannot exist without newspaper journalism and the unique attributes it brings to its synergy with democracy. Those include:
Depth of reporting based on multiple sourcing
Professional objectivity — that is, avoiding a particularistic voice
A layered process of fact-checking and editing
Community coherence — that is, a clear concept of who is being served and why
Recognition of the responsibilities inherent in journalism's agenda-setting role
Ethical underpinnings, including distinguishing between fact and opinion.

roger — December 31, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Year, Forum!

Not much for celebrating, so staying in, trying to keep the pets calm from the boomers, and ringing in the new year by watching 'The Gods Must Be Crazy' both 1 & 2. The Spring Equinox is the beginning of the year for some of us anyway, so not much of a change now other than trying to remember to write the correct years' date.

jacjak — December 31, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I always stay in on New Years, Too many crazies out on the roads.

frobert — December 31, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy new Year everybody. we always stay in as well. fireworks down the road.


Hawkman — December 31, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Year everyone! Peace, happiness, & good health to all.

nailingit — December 31, 2013 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Year

frobert — January 1, 2014 at 12:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hope all our Forum friends had a safe and fun New Year.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the fireworks were nuts and my dog inconsolable. KOIN reported that they was a fireworks stand operating in Camas (Camas Seniors fundraiser), even though, in WA State, they are illegal for Dec 31 and Jan 1st.

roger @ 5:40 PM: Harvard's Neiman program is one of the most stellar in the US and it certainly promotes responsible journalism practices like the important ones you list. The Society for Professional Journalists have a list of ethical standards, as well as NPR. One of my local favorites is the TAO of Journalism, a project of the non-profit media watchdog WA News Council:

jacjak @ 4:03 PM: I bagged Time for the same reasons you did! I love Utne, too, and will check out the Pacific Standard on your recommendation. I have never had the pleasure of reading it yet.

manthou — January 1, 2014 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I got to say it is with some reluctance that I too will not pay for the privilege of reading the The C on-line under my old account. First they can't even count. I got a notice that I only have 20 more articles that can be read. The notice said that I had already read 10 articles. Being that it's only the 1st and I hadn't read anything yet, but the forum, I have to wonder what I missed.

I now split the cost with a neighbor for the paper. If I want to say something that I think is important, or just bitch a little, I will have to log on under this neighbors account. It's not a bad deal because this neighbor doesn't use the forum. Plus I can still read the hard copy.

What I don't like is The Columbian has taken a business route that will exclude some better commentary while trying to line their pockets. Oh well it was going to happen anyway. My suggestion is to sell the paper now. Get it over with and watch it go downhill. And if the diehards, on the FB side, stay with it then so be it.

I respect the people who comment on the forum section of this website. We have, over the years, proven that we can be factual and concise with our diatribes. I don't see that much on the FB side except the crossovers from the forum. In fact what I see is that those who comment over there only line up more with The C. Look, I understand that we are a dying breed. We are now close to extinction and it won't take much to snuff us out.

This is a groundswell movement that is gaining steam. Look how many on-line paper editions are doing away with people who who make comments that are borderline crude and crass. They have something to say and as they write it they tend to get a little heated (a/c-b/d) They don't want the heat from a few diehards that would complain. I call this social engineering by just taking the ball and going home because the reader is probably smarter and they don't want to be shown up.

If this paper is to survive I believe they will make the decision to open it back up it up to all. But I'm not holding my breath.I don't know what their revenue stream is like but if I was a business putting advertising on this site I would make sure that it was getting out to all readers, not to a select few.

JohnCasey — January 1, 2014 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hello Forum,

Just popping in for a minute to say hello and wish you all a Happy New Year.

JohnCasey, I used to participate here in the pre Facebook/presocial media era, There is definitely a tradeoff when switching over to a more constricted conversation. I don't understand your bitterness at the Columbian, since they have continued to make this anonymous forum available. There is and will probably always be a need for privacy in online conversations, and there are a number of social media sites that recognize this and are thriving because of this, so in a sense, they are carrying the traditional banner of the right to privacy, if at least in appearance. The freedom of speech is never going to be absolute, but the rules governing it will probably never be fair or consistent, either. And despite the huge influence this medium of communication has suddenly occupied, I believe the most important conversations are still, and will always be, face to face communication.

normseubert — January 1, 2014 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

normseubert: Good to see your name pop up here again! I have been reading your comments on the FB side and glad you continue to add your perspective to the mix there!

Hope you stop by and converse with us more often!

manthou — January 1, 2014 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We had several fireworks stands in Battle Ground. I heard some boomers last night but not enough to wake the cat. Sorry your dog got so upset. I don't take part myself, seems really expensive for a few seconds of boom.

Hawkman — January 1, 2014 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, manthou. I'll try!

normseubert — January 1, 2014 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Year to all. manthou we heard the booms here also. But not as bad as last year. We went to dinner and we were home by 8. No partying for us.

timerick — January 1, 2014 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also a quiet evening here. A few booms in the Orchards area, but not enough to do more than irritate the cats. I watched Duke collapse and let Texas A&M; have a win which they should have had. Got bored and put in a DVD of a Lee Van Cleef movie I'd never heard of - an Italian spaghetti Western titled Sabata. Seems they were trying to remake The Good, The Bad and The Ugly with old Angel Eyes as the star - mildly amusing, but not overly impressive. New Years Eve lost its thrill years ago - Hanging around a bunch of people getting themselves to various stages of intoxication and carrying on about how the upcoming year will bring something new and special - No thanks.

roger — January 1, 2014 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak - Thanks for the tip on the Pacific Standard; I'd never heard of that magazine. I read a few of their on-line articles today (Jim Russell's excellent article Suburban Sprawl Spurs Innovation is a good read, and so is Lisa Margonelli's Meet the Flexians). Ending up sending in for my subscription.

roger — January 1, 2014 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Years to all.

Norm, good to see you joining in on the forum this New Year's Day!!!

Roger, I think the party revelers were all north of Five Corners. I heard boomers going off till 3 am. When I first saw Sabata about a month ago, I was thinking the very same...that it was a remake...or a last-ditch effort on the producers part to keep the theme of the G, the B and the U going in Sabata.

JohnCasey...well thought comment @7:31 am...and I agree. I've heard of others having the same issues as you regarding the number of times allowed to enter the C's website with full access. These times...they are a changin' and sometimes change bites. I only hope the C can continue. I noticed they have far more selection of articles than before the new change...more community-oriented articles. Now...if they can only return to the center of the scales to keep their writing more fair and balanced and refrain from an obvious political hit against someone they oppose. (my opinion of course)

Hawk...they can do all they want to keep those of us who refuse to pay away, but you know the old saying - where there's a will, there's a way!!! Glad you've found your way, even if we don't always agree.

goldenoldie — January 1, 2014 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO, have a great year, things are just starting to get interesting at work for me, new construction and such. Change is growth.

Drift, if you are watching, I know of two perfect buildings to start a pot business in. they used to be bank branches, still got the steel vaults in them. What could be more secure? Since they would be a cash business (I'm assuming) it would be the perfect place to lock up the goods and the proceeds. Also, they both have drive up windows, what could be better?

Hawkman — January 1, 2014 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy New Year everybody. Glad to see some are still here. I am still not sure if I should shell out 18 bucks a month to access the forum as much as I like it. That amount shoudl be lower, imo. Looks as if few started paying as it looks very slow over on FB side also. Anybody know?

Slow relaxed New year's eve also at friend's house. Almost made it to midnight but alas,...too tired. I am looking forward to this year. Changed job a month ago and eager to continue with new one. Quite exciting!

And as this is a new year, I already got a gift for Nails.;_source=Outbrain1.5Cents

I don't get netflix but woudl love to see this documentary. Is it slanted in the writeup? I would say no as I agree with it, but others can judge for themselves. A few interesting and horrifying little tidbits in the short article, Nails.

luvithere — January 1, 2014 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, Hawk, but going back into business (formerly industrial) doesn't interest me. Besides, going into the pot business in this county wouldn't be a financially sound move - not given the current atmosphere generated by those pulling the strings, IMO.

My Columbo account reads I spend six bones a month for the privilege of reading comments on the FB side and voicing a few of my own here. I guess the $6 is the going rate for porch delivered subscribers(?).

I receive two periodicals. "The Week" is gifted by my 92-year-old aunt down Sandy Eggo way. "Popular Science" is from my disabled neighbor.

I raked a few leaves for them last fall. I told him I wasn't doing it for them, but me. A good portion of their front yard is the view from this loft. I didn't want to be looking at a mud hole come spring. They got me the subscription anyway. Last year it was "Mother Earth News." ☺

I'm thinking the aunt just wants me to be 'politically in the know.' You know how the old folks can be at times? She's a retired English teacher. I once sent her a draft of a manuscript. She sent it back marked up in red (and -that- nails is why the inscription in your book is written in red. There, now you're one of the few privy to the inside joke). I'm glad she hasn't ponied up for the Columbian (snork).

Here's hoping '14 works out for y'all!

Drift — January 1, 2014 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregonian editorial posted late today:

Will Oregon build the CRC? Will WA cede tolling authority to Oregon? Will Jason marry Ashley after she bears his child? Stay tuned and check back next week. Like sands through the hour glass…..

manthou — January 1, 2014 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, from this editorial:

A representative of Washington Gov. Jay Inslee should signal, if only by a letter read aloud to Oregon lawmakers at the hearing, that Washington supports a CRC led by Oregon and that Washington would unconditionally cede all authority for I-5 bridge tolling to Oregon

Seriously? Cede all authority for tolling? Bend over low and thank them for the tolls they force on us? You got to be kidding me.

Takes some guts to put something like that in writing. Since when is OR in charge of WA? What an insult.

luvithere — January 1, 2014 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From that editorial - "Wheeler must show how a reciprocal tolling agreement with Washington could work – and make known specifically all that's required for Oregon to protect itself from financial risk a decade or two ahead."

Are they kidding? Wheeler's operation has already laid out what needs to happen - like just 2 or 3 months ago. For starters, they need a guarantee of a complete $850 million grant from New Starts for the light rail project, and a $900 million TIFIA loan for the bridge. The 35 year interest rate for that loan needs to be below about 4.7% (currently 3.92%, and continues to rise slowly).

And they need a current tolling study - one that considers today's traffic flow, and provides a realistic estimate of diversion to I205.

Tolling is set by WSDOT, and that tolling concession is something that WSDOT director Lynn Peterson is willing to cede. The Senate has already said they won't allow this, so Gov Inslee has a problem here. I suspect this issue will be discussed in the upcoming session in both states. What will also have to be hashed out is whether we'd allow tolling the I205 for this project. Unfortunately for WSDOT (who would most likely agree to this), there's that sticky little problem of a state law banning this (passed as part of the 2012 budget agreement).

And everything I read says the Oregon legislature has lost its desire for the CRC. Many of their legislators that voted for it as a joint venture aren't willing to take the risk on their own.

Note that the editorial also suggests that a compromise project may be necessary. The Oregonian appears willing to sacrifice the light rail portion in order to get the upgrades the Port of Portland is pushing for.

roger — January 1, 2014 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The hell with that bridge. Build a new freeway from Ridgefield to NW Portland and up to Beaverton/Hillsboro. Tie it in with Hwy 30, Hwy 26 and down to I-5. Call it I-605. That way, most of the money spent will be on Oregon's dime. Oh, and forget the train, it's a money loser. If it were really the great deal everyone thinks it is, they wouldn't have paved over the old tracks years ago in Portland AND Vancouver.

Hawkman — January 1, 2014 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

happy new year for all the basement exiles.

glad to see your posts, goldie. u2, roger.

wonder what will happen to our little homeless squatter group now that the owners want money from us....

just have to see,

DeeLittle — January 1, 2014 at 11:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Norm, good to see you still read it. I'm not bitter. That's a little harsh. I'm a little disappointed that The C has adopted a more strict position on how one can comment here. It just baffles me that when you need more people reading it that they decide it's better to control who reads it as opposed to getting a more diverse crowd.

Advertisers will tell you that the more people who see their ads odds are sales will perk up. If I was an advertiser on this web site I would question the thinking that restriction is better off for the masses. Or for the bottom line for that matter. Since most papers on-line need advertising dollars it seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot.

The C is privately owned and operated. I recognize that they have a right to run the paper however the want. But judging how things went a few years ago I just wonder if that old way of thinking is good for how things need to be ran today in this economy. It's all about the Benjamin's, don'tcha know.

JohnCasey — January 2, 2014 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Congratulations, Anne McEnerny-Ogle! I look forward to watching you help city council be more productive and citizen-centered.

I was one who attended Anne's swearing in ceremony yesterday. What a diverse group of persons in attendance: even Carolyn Crain RSVP'd via FB with regrets (she is resting herself for another year of citizen activism and peace-wishing).

We all were treated to a sit down, delicious and abundant hot lunch, most of the food prepared by Anne herself.

Anne, I realize I won't agree with all your decisions, but I know you will consider and weigh the pros and cons from all angles and that you treasure and love the community in which you serve. This win was a long time coming and well-deserved!

manthou — January 2, 2014 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pet peeve...

Trying to fit all the holiday decorations back into their storage tubs. I swear they must multiply.

manthou @ 7:28 - I think Anne McEnerny-Ogle will be very good for Vancouver, mostly because she will say exactly why she has a opinion or conclusion about something. She's always been a bit more pragmatic (not to be confused with conservative) than some, and for me, that's appreciated, even if I don't see eye to eye with her across the board. I attend neighborhood association meetings periodically and she's always been right in there, knowing what she's talking about, how things are connected, and how and why decisions effect each community. Only wish each of us were as engaged as she's been over the years. She's a great addition to Vancouver City Council.

jacjak — January 2, 2014 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You would think that the Columbian would be a little quicker with the news now that we are paying extra for this online version. I just read on about some of our local wineries that will have to close because they are having a hard time working with the county for permiting. Will be interesting to see what develops.

timerick — January 2, 2014 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I was just getting ready to post that link you did! I was wondering why it was not published here yet, too.

A friend of mine who provides musical entertainment to our Clark County wineries emailed me about this.

Oh, the irony: We cannot shut down so called "Asian massage parlors" that promote slavery, but we are running legitimate rural businesses, a benefit to our local economy, out of the area.

Wineries are a gem to Clark County's reputation. Let's eliminate them, however, and make sure all the bottom feeder businesses replace them.

Open the floodgates.

manthou — January 2, 2014 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 2:48

Not sure what's going on, but am getting frustrated (make that FRUSTRATED) with trying to even FIND the news on the Columbian. Why do they keep changing the format? What is 'Trending', by the way? To have to scroll and hunt for a article I just accessed 2 hours earlier is annoying. And, while it may have been in the 8 'top' stories initially, to find it later I need to look through catagories. Was it Local or Northwest? National or Political? Business or Health? Locating the actual news is becoming tedious, to say nothing of the HUGE scrolling pictures at the top. And, what's with those Polls?

If they are going to charge for viewing, and if someone is willing to pay but may have previously been barred, let them back. Combine the TOS and Community Guidelines so there is no arbitrary or unpredictible chance to violate guidelines unknowingly. National newspapers like the NYT has hundreds, sometimes thousands, of posts, yet you don't see the disrespect allowed on the FB side of the Columbian. I can only assume some of the most provocative posters have decided to not post because of the monthly fee, or have been busy because of the holidays. I've noticed Jim Moeller has manage to post a time or two lately without the normal barrage of discourteous and rude replies.

Ok, spouted and complained long enough...

jacjak — January 2, 2014 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, manthou

I thought David took care of this. What the hell is going on down there?

Hawkman — January 2, 2014 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman: At the end of the year, Mielke made a sidebar comment to Madore at a Wednesday hearing (Stuart was absent) about getting serious with the wineries to get the new license or else. Someone gave a staffer the order to send these letters. I cannot wait to find out who pulled that trigger and who sent the letter.

It was a scare tactic, a wake-up call that will, like all the other games played at the BOCC, will backfire.

You cannot fix stupid.

manthou — January 2, 2014 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 2, 2014 at 4:41 p.m.

This is totally against what was "advertised". These wineries bring big bucks into the County and as such should be catered to just as much as any other business. Where are the "free" permits? Why are they getting targeted, doesn't David like wine? Would they try that with some "big" construction companies?

Hawkman — January 2, 2014 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk: I suspect there is a bit of evangelical judgment being lobbed at these businesses. Wineries are part of a culture that, well, attracts sinners like me.

Looks like Erin Middlewood will be covering the Tuesday BOCC meetings and Stephanie Rice will cover the Wednesday Board times, according to Rice's recent tweet. I think this is a temporary stopgap until the C assigns a new reporter full time. Now Madore and Mielke will have to deal with uppity womenfolk who are reporters, too. :)

manthou — January 2, 2014 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou a little bit of evangelical judgment? I would say a lot. You can not let religious beliefs interfrer with good business. Not at the government level. In private life yes. Not in public office. In fact I am having a glass of Merlot right now in protest. I to am a sinner.

timerick — January 2, 2014 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tim-allow me to join in the festivities and sin along with ya. I am thinking eggnog (leftover) with some Baileys. Or rum.
My very first thought was the exact same one - must have something to do with the sinful aspect of wine. Flood gates must be stopped there.

May I say morons at the helm?

luvithere — January 2, 2014 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I joined your protest, Tim. I don't drink, but in the interest of solidarity I took a sip from a bottle of bordeaux I have from the last time I made chili. (Some people add beer, but I find a red wine merges the heat and the flavors perfectly.) We have to protect our vices.

And I'm still not happy with the crap about the Sheriff's Dept deciding they're an agent of change, and intend to run off the panhandlers for being "aggressive." I don't know about anywhere else, but here in the Orchards area our local crew that congregates at the Gher/112th exit are polite, God fearing people down on their luck. (Read their signs if you don't believe me.) (Now, that kid reading a book out there today may have been scary to some. That apparent air of total indifference to all us people racing around like lemmings in pursuit of our daily nickel had to have caused more than a few to question their own existence. But my soldier training paid off; as I was passing by I saw his eyes darting up and down - that dude was multitasking to the max!!!) ANYHOW - perhaps they are all junkies and making good money playing on peoples' sympathies. So what????

roger — January 2, 2014 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 5:41 - "Wineries are part of a culture that, well, attracts sinners like me."
timerick @ 6:49 - "I am having a glass of Merlot right now in protest. I to am a sinner."

Hubby & I like wine tasting. Oh, we drink our fair share and then some just hanging at the homestead, but it's a nice relaxed evening out too...taste a few reds, maybe discover a new grape or a nice blend, and mostly it's fun to chat with perfect strangers who are doing the same thing. Nibbles are also usually part of the experience, and have discovered a couple great cheeses while wine tasting. And yes, most wineries have music. Not the roudy kind that get the cops coming or complaining at county board meetings, but usually one guitar player, etc. There was a wine distributor on SR503 and Fourth Plain that was super fun and very popular who had music students from the colleges as entertainment. Very impressive some of the talent this town has.

In looking for a large venue for a birthday party this year I spoke with 3 wineries. Their license to serve comes from the State, as well as a long list of regulations, plus there's the health dept. and fire safety, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through if you want to serve the public your wines, plus even more if you want your venue used for private events.

In otherwords, there are lots of sinners apparently, that's if wine is how their measured, and miracles of water into wine aside. So, suspect that may not be the whole reason for the procrastination on permits. The winery in the article has already paid $6000 and yet has no permit. Obviously they're not getting a fee-free holiday, like the builders. So, is it liberals drink more? Wineries support the CRC? Or just another control issue?

It's amazing to me how this county putted along fairly smoothly over the last couple decades, and then in the last year it's become all piss and vinegar on every little thing. More and more it's looks like micro management and lectures are the deal of the day, and even where there's no problem one gets made either through evaluation of contracts, or who gets paid how much, or cutting fees from parks and builders while driving wineries out of business.

jacjak — January 2, 2014 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I use a little wine in my chili also. I like a little zing so I use a zesty white with a little bite to it. Resling works fine. Jacjac I don't know that Madore had much to do with the permit. I think this started before he was elected. But it made the tv news tonight and I would bet that someone will be looking into it. We have not visited his place yet but we will make the trip out to give it a try. there is a place in Hockinson that has a nice venue, I can't remember the name but it is kind of like a park setting and I believe they have cover. Roger if you want to see God fearing panhandlers come down town and Hawk and I will share ours with you. We have more than enough to go around.

timerick — January 2, 2014 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I suspect that the reason we have not seen any coverage of the wineries letter on the C is twofold: they lost Erik Hidle, who used to cover Clark County government issues, and are relying on Stephanie Rice and Erin Middlewood to pick up those stories. Short staffed, in other words.

Another reason? Could it be that the C is trying to be fair and make sure they have gathered the facts from both sides before they publish? Many CC staffers are gone until Monday. I am glad we have heard from the TV stations, but there was no statement from CC yet.

Regardless, wineries and vintners in Clark County contribute greatly to the rural economy. Look at what this industry has done to stimulate business and tourism in Walla Walla. Clark County should be bending over backwards to make sure our wineries "prosper and thrive" rather than throwing sand in their faces.

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 5:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — January 1, 2014 at 3 p.m.

Thanks for the background. Pretty cool.

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well y'all, David Madore is on the winery thing. After a FB blackout of a couple of weeks for vacation, he posted this last night:

"Putting out winery fires:

A few days ago, I learned that the county sent out letters to 4 wineries ordering them to cease operations unless they comply with a new ordinance before Monday, January 6. The letter says that a penalty of $250 per day will be assessed after that date. Not good.

These businesses represent an important emerging industry for Clark County. Rather than blowing them out of the water, we will focus on making our customers and businesses successful.

I’m on it. A little back pedaling is in order and better communications are in the works to fix this. I’ve scheduled a joint meeting with the affected wineries and staff to help them to get ‘er done.

Clark County has become the most business friendly county on the west coast. If we hit a bump in the road, we will back up the truck and do whatever it takes to get it right."

All righty then. Cannot wait to hear how these letters were authorized.

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

///The King's first resting place to be sold at 'Music Icons' auction///

Read more:
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook


luvithere — January 1, 2014 at 2:20 p.m.

Thanks for the heads up. I have NetFlix and will make sure I watch this. We just finished watching the political drama series 'Scandal'. The heart of the show centers on rigged voting machines in Defiance Ohio, which tipped the Presidential election to the Republicans.

I remember this to be what I considered under reported news in 2012.

-G.O.P. Operative Long Trailed by Allegations of Voter Fraud-

Mr. Sproul, 40, a former executive director of the Arizona Christian Coalition and the Republican Party in Arizona, is well known in political circles there. Since 2004, Mr. Sproul’s companies — he has operated under several corporate names — have collected more than $17.6 million from Republican committees, candidates and the “super PAC” American Crossroads, mostly for voter registration operations, according to campaign finance records.

The Republican Party, which paid Mr. Sproul about $3 million this year for work in five states, has severed its ties with him, saying it has no tolerance for voter registration fraud.

Read more @

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 5:51 a.m.

David seems to always be back pedaling about something.

And here I thought most evangelicals love to get soused!

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, wait a minute. It gets better.

From Anna Miller, David Madore's personal "assistant" and PR mouthpiece, comes this comment on his FB page:

"In the Board Time discussion Commissioner Madore emphasized several times that the letters should be respectful and friendly. When he returned from a family vacation and saw the letter that went out he personally phoned each of the owners and invited them to meet, assuring them that their success is very important."

So, it appears that Madore authorized the sending of letters. Remember I mentioned that Mielke piped in at that Board time that they needed to let the wineries know that CC was "serious" about the new ordinance.

Whatever he needs to save face. Madore may have contributed to this debacle. At least he is trying to back pedal and fix it, it seems.

Just another communication error? Another example of unilateral decision-making? Maybe. I'll wait for the whole story before I start wearing Madore campaign buttons.

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: What are you doing up at this ungodly hour?

My excuse: I spent the last two weeks on Eastern Standard Time. :)

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — I'm asking myself the same thing...

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — January 2, 2014 at 9:05 p.m. -- "Roger if you want to see God fearing panhandlers come down town and Hawk and I will share ours with you. We have more than enough to go around."

You know, there's probably a study begging to be conducted with this issue - can we show that a higher population density leads to more aggressive panhandling? Out here they just stand at highway exits with their signs and other props. I've also noted that they seem to work together fairly well, what with shift changes and sharing food. We'd have to observe the behaviors in downtown Vancouver, and then in downtown Portland.

Or maybe it's the freeways that have a calming influence. (Correlation vs. causation - I sort of remember this from a statistics course taken many years ago.) If so, and tied to the increase in road rage experienced as highways get more crowded - let's start building!!!

roger — January 3, 2014 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:22 am. Awhile back, I asked a similar question after visiting my son in Guerneville CA. Why do the homeless in this tiny CA city have their needs met so well that panhandling does not exist? Maybe it is lower population density. Maybe it is an abundance of appropriate support services, too. My daughter-in-law works in a free clinic there and, when I watched her stop to chat with several homeless persons on our walk one day, she explained to me, "They are my patients." Many are disabled vets, she added.

I so heartily agree with you: the CC Sheriff's Dept should not be making unilateral policy about panhandling and further marginalizing a portion of our vulnerable citizens.

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As jacjak noted last night, there's a long list of regulations, etc, that need to be met for a vintner to start up with these events. What I'm wondering is just how much different this would be that opening a "mom and pop" restaurant (which would seem to be more or less comparable)? Is this the modern day version of requiring a bit of cash to be passed around if you want to go in business - legalized extortion, disguised as fees and attorney costs? Poor old Joe Shmoe, who may grow and blend an outstanding wine or two, just might not be cut out for that world.

roger — January 3, 2014 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I do recall one specific panhandler down by Target by the mall. He was there almost all day collecting his money from suckers who felt sorry for him. After a long day of standing and holding his sign, he and another associate from another location jumped into his newer pick-up and headed to Arby's. Changed clothes in the restroom and came in for dinner. Never would have known it was him. What a scam. Totally tax free money. Who's to say he isn't the smart one, lose a little dignity, gain some bucks.

Hawkman — January 3, 2014 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now wait just a darned minute here! While the rest of the world is trying to determine if these things really exist this cat's throwing pool parties for 'em?

I've heard the Bigfeets exude a rather rude aroma. If you ask me, something else stinks, too ☺

Drift — January 3, 2014 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Chaos on the 6th Floor of the Public Service Bldg today?

A game of hot potato is being played? How can I get this off my desk as quickly as possible and manipulate the message to distance myself from the problem and portray myself as the savior of all things winery-related?

Stay tuned for another episode of "Reality as interpreted and spun by David Madore."

manthou — January 3, 2014 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — January 3, 2014 at 8:10 a.m.

I was wondering about that this morning, and figured that a backyard BBQ would go a long way too. Horseshoes and badmitton ought to be good. Next thing you know, old 'Squatch would be stopping in for Sunday football games. Probably best to refrain from offering a beer until we know if he can hold his drink, though.

roger — January 3, 2014 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since October, Federal judges have ruled anti-begging laws in Boise, New Orleans and Arizona unconstitutional. As noted by The LA Times, "Courts nationwide have ruled that laws against aggressive panhandling and harassment are constitutional but have found that peaceful begging is protected by the Constitution."

The court rulings allow taking action against aggressive panhandling, but note that standing there peacefully with a sign or asking for food is not aggressive behavior. There's an ACLU case working through the courts now seeking further restriction on these ordnances, as they're seen as an attempt to restrict where some people can be.

With as much trouble as our County has these days, and the resulting fines and other penalties being imposed, it would be a wise idea for our County Comms to tell the Sheriff's Dept to let it rest for the time being.

roger — January 3, 2014 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of the ACLU, just beating the drums once more on this issue. It's a big one and needs to be addressed.

///Fired for legally smoking pot: The coming Colorado crackdown///

Even if your state starts letting you smoke pot, your boss might not. Here's what happened to Brandon Coats

Because all marijuana use remains illegal under federal law, the Colorado Appeals Court concluded last April, it remains outside the scope of that state’s law prohibiting firings for “lawful activity” outside work. “The plain and ordinary meaning of ‘lawful’ is that which is ‘permitted by law,’ then-Chief Judge Janice Davidson wrote in her decision, citing Black’s Law Dictionary. Therefore, she argued, “an activity that violates federal law but complies with state law cannot be ‘lawful’ under the ordinary meaning of that term.”

In a dissenting opinion, Judge John Webb argued the statute’s “ambiguous” term “lawful activity” should be read in the context of the Legislature’s intent “to protect employees’ autonomy in their off-the-job activities, such as smoking and eating patterns that lead to obesity,” something the U.S. Congress had not attempted to do. “Recognition that protecting employees from discharge based on their off-duty conduct is primarily a matter of state concern,” wrote Webb, “favors measuring ‘lawful’ based on state law.”


But unlike Colorado (and New York, California and North Dakota), most states don’t ban companies from firing people for legal things they do outside of work in the first place. According to a 2010 review by the National Conference of State Legislatures, eight states protect workers’ right to use “lawful products” outside work without losing their job over it; 17 other states (and D.C.) ban companies from firing workers for smoking tobacco at home. But such laws (like federal protections for religious activity or union activism) are the exception, not the rule. So while some states that legalize pot could face Colorado-like questions about whether their definition of “lawful” includes the drug, in most states a boss’ right to sack pot-smokers would remain intact unless legislators specifically curtailed it. (In a 2012 ruling, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals concluded that because the federal Americans With Disabilities Act defines “illegal drug use” based on federal law, it does not protect medical marijuana use.)

read more @

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 2:15 p.m

Some companies have the right to fire you if you commit a felony away from the job. Regardless of what the crime might be. This may fall into that category. On the other hand it could be up to the company on a case by case basis. This is all going to be a big cluster **** until it gets worked out.

Another thing I think is interesting. If you manufacture pot and sell it, even though the feds say it's illegal, they still want their tax money for your profit. That's how they got Capone, you know.

Hawkman — January 3, 2014 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail that problem with the law was bound to be a big deal. I understand the feds stance on it. I may not agree but the law is the law. States should have worked to change the federal law first. I am not sure but when do states rights trump federal? I do believe we will see a change in the federal law in the near future. Other states are sitting back and watching what happens out here. With enough states making it legal to smoke marijuana the feds will have to follow suit.

timerick — January 3, 2014 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 3, 2014 at 2:15 p.m.,

Let's move a step beyond the marijuana issue - Laws have been changed so that in most cases the employer holds all the cards - as noted in the closing paragraphs of your article. And the one group that supported workers - the unions - has been marginalized to the point of virtual ineffectiveness.

Even our application has become schizophrenic. As your citation refers to, in 33 states your boss can fire you if you smoke. This is tolerated by the government because smokers tend to have higher health care costs, and an employer who provides health insurance has the right to take steps to keep costs down for everyone. Fair enough? Then let's switch gears here - per the Center for Disease Control, "Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) of all races and ethnicities remain the population most profoundly affected by HIV." So, what happens if an employer decides to fire someone for being gay, because he has a higher risk for acquiring this disease, and having it progress to full blown AIDS? I'd say that employer might as well hand the keys over to the person fired, and thereby hopefully avoid the firestorm coming his way.

roger — January 3, 2014 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Watch for this one.....

The Black Money Scam is highlighted in this Rip-Off Alert.
The scam starts with a compelling photo of a woman hooked up to a hospital ventilator, seemingly clinging to life.
“The victim will receive a correspondence from a dying woman from a foreign country, and they are explaining that they need a U.S. citizen as beneficiary to their millions of dollars so they can get this money to a charity,” said U.S. Postal Inspector Maria Albright. “And that’s their dying wish.”
The note explains how unsuspecting victims can help the woman in the photo fulfill her dying wish and make some money in the process.
“The pictures that are sent of the dying people and the death certificates that we received are used multiple times in multiple scams,” Albright said.
Another variation on the scam is when victims are told they inherited money. Con artists convince victims that a large amount of money will be coming into the U.S. and they just need to take possession.
“Once the money is shipped to the United States it miraculously is held up in customs, then they have to pay all sorts of fees,” Albright said. “Thousands and thousands of dollars in fees to get this money released.”
There is more. Victims are then told the money has been dyed black or yellow to avoid detection. Scam artists might even send a sample.
Suspects tell victims they need to pay to clean the money.
Postal inspectors call this a “black money” scam, and say it cost victims around the world roughly $100 million. Officials say they have cases in Arizona, Minnesota, New York and other states.
Some advice: If you get a suspicious email or letter with signs of this scam – report it.
“You will also be helping other people who may be scammed by the same individuals in the future,” Albright said.

Hawkman — January 3, 2014 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Call me crazy. Accuse me of having poor taste. Whatever. I'll swallow whatever is tossed my way for this opinion.

I think Lou B's Press Talk today is one of the most cleverly-written satire predictions I have read in a long time. More, please. :)
Erik Hidle's final piece for the Columbian helped bring balance to the wineries closing threat story, as I predicted yesterday. Sometimes scoops are less important than gathering all the facts. Hooray for a little restraint before one pulls the publish trigger.

Here is Brancaccio's final unceremonious serenade to this promising and departing young journalist:

manthou — January 4, 2014 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"I think Lou B's Press Talk today is one of the most cleverly-written satire predictions I have read in a long time. More, please. :)"

Peoples' taste, I'm speaking of. I mean, I could never understand why a person would buy a Picasso. To me, the paintings look like a grade school kid's doodling (shrug).
With that written:

Obviously you enjoyed Lou's Saturday ramnblings, manthou. I thought it was one of the worst pieces I've read. I was going to offer, though Lou may be a competent editor, his writing is horrendous. I was going to suggest he utilize a ghost writer for future columns.

But what'a I know?

Drift — January 4, 2014 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, I was thinking of adding a comment to Lou's Press Talk asking if Temple Lentz is his ghost writer. And then decided it wasn't worth the time. That piece is like the "clever" stuff we wrote for our college newspapers, but a bit out of place in the adult world. Bring John Laird back. (And I think I'll go back and make this short comment.)

roger — January 4, 2014 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I never said I had any taste. :)

Well, I miss Laird, too. Do you catch his FB comments, roger? The most recent was his farewell wishes to Erik Hidle:

"As Grand Potentate of the Hazel Dell Hounds of Whinerville, I should remind everyone that Erik Hidle is going from The Columbian to Russia. Coincidence? I think not!
Write on, buddy! Great job!"

I wish Laird would blog: when I made that request of him before he left, he swore he would not get near a word processor in retirement.

manthou — January 4, 2014 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Rather than blowing them out of the water, we will focus on making our customers and businesses successful," Madore wrote. "I'm on it. A little backpedaling is in order, and better communications are in the works to fix this. I've scheduled a joint meeting with the affected *cannabis entrepreneurs* and staff to help them to get 'er done."

...could help myself ☺

Drift — January 4, 2014 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — January 4, 2014 at 9:28 a.m.

Would, "...couldn't help myself," make better sense? Oops. Heh.

Drift — January 4, 2014 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Before passing anymore judgment than I already have about the wineries, I would like to see the letter that was sent to the wineries. I am a bit surprised that the Columbian did not print the entire letter. I promise I will try not to prejudge any more. Maybe!

timerick — January 4, 2014 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You know, I went and read all the links in Eric's article on the winery, and links from those articles. The Mayor of Yacolt was mentioned in an article as saying Moulton Falls Winery is a plus because of the outside business that comes to their town. There was apparently a lot of work put into the process of coming up with rules, and people came to the County Board meetings to comment. The only controversy noted was the hours when music could be played; this pitted Madore against Mielke, and they agreed to go along with what Stuart decided. There was mention of limiting the amounts of food, and a few other things. Nothing about fees for shared roads, as seems to be the winery's problem here. Then I went to the Moulton Falls Winery website and looked around. An interesting little operation that reaches out and tries to involve other local businesses (e.g., the Double Bar L Cafe).

Where the disconnect comes into play is how this was considered the fault of Madore and Mielke. Looks to me as though the winery owners decided they don't want to have to comply with County rules, pushed back via facebook, and the anti-M&M; crowd took the bait - hook, line and sinker. Eric's parting article "sort of" sets the record straight - but not until after The Columbian helped stirred the pot for a day or two.

Manthou, perhaps you should break out those Madore campaign buttons now? If you ask me, he's about the only one who doesn't stink the room up with this little fiasco.

roger — January 4, 2014 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is a link to the application;

Hawkman — January 4, 2014 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I read a letter that Steve Stuart sent to the wineries as well, after the KGW article came out where he explained the history of the whole thing and the events as they happened. He also said that nobody was in danger of being shut down.

I tried to find it again but couldn't.

Hawkman — January 4, 2014 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 9:58 am: I thought there might be another side to this winery story, which was why the Columbian took its time in publishing something. It does appear, as you point out, that Moulton Falls may have been opportunistic in riling up the unwashed masses on this non- issue.

I have given Madore kudos in the past. He works hard and takes his job very seriously for sure. He has been the only commissioner, on three occasions now, who has answered recent email questions of mine.

I have a couple more tests for him before I put on that campaign button, however. Stuart, as well, in fact. It will depend on who runs against all of these guys. I keep watching the Freeholders in action. The cream is rising to the top there already.

manthou — January 4, 2014 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk: Here is the text of Steve Stuart's email to Sue Svendsen. She posted it on the Moulton Falls FB page:

"Happy New Year, and thanks for getting in touch with me directly. You know I support your work and industry, and see the amazing potential it offers Clark County in business and tourism it will bring. I'm sorry that you got a terse letter from the County about getting an application in, but it's actually the 3rd letter you should've received. The first letter was in January of 2012, alerting all winery owners that we'd completed the Wineries Ordinance and that if you have or wanted to build tasting rooms and/or host events, that you needed to submit a permit application. After that, we all met at your place and figured out some things we could do to simplify the ordinance and help the industry (including more flexible septic requirements and providing marketing from signs and maps). Based on those conversations, we moved forward with marketing and amended the Wineries Ordinance to simplify/clarify noise and event issues that we'd all been struggling with. To make sure you all knew, and also knew that we still needed permit applications submitted for the aspects of your business where the public would be present, we sent another letter in October of 2013. That letter was to let you all know about the work we'd finished, and remind you that if you are going to have a tasting room and/or events that you need to get a permit application in. The letter you're referring to from Community Development is the third letter, and definitely has a different tone because the deadlines and previous letters hadn't resulted in applications being submitted by some.

All that said, I feel I can confidently say that nobody around here wants to shut down any wineries (or any business for that matter). Here's the simple path moving forward:

1) You don't have to have permits in hand in 10 days, but you do need to start the process by submitting applications as required under the Wineries Ordinance (applications which are significantly less burdensome than other businesses go through); and
2) Don't worry about permit processing costs, because you won't have to pay ANY permit review fees so long as you're employing anybody including yourself (as per our fee waiver).

That's it. That's all you and any other winery owner with public facilities has to do. Again, you know I support your work. I also need to make sure there are minimal safeguards for the public as I would any other business in this County. If you simply start the streamlined permitting process we've created, we can all accomplish our goals.

Again, thanks for getting in touch with me, and please let me know if you have further questions."


manthou — January 4, 2014 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After reading Hawkman's post, it appears they're going to need a Type II permit (based strictly on that shared street fee required). And this may mean their neighbors are less than happy with the operation. A google search shows a home further back the road. Also, the dirt road leaves the street and then forks to two parallel roads several feet apart - there are at least 4 more buildings that (from above) appear to be homes there. And a Zillow search shows two homes on the same side of the street "within spitting distance" are on the market. (The one for about $350K is overpriced, but the one in the $2Ks on the other side of the tree stand looks like a good deal.) Perhaps some (or all) of the neighbors don't want their peaceful country living disturbed?

And it also appears they probably go over the line with food being served up.


roger — January 4, 2014 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 4, 2014 at 11:33 a.m.

That's the letter. Seems fair to me, and a lot less drama than Madore.

Hawkman — January 4, 2014 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou like I said I shouldn't jump to snap judgments. I said I would try not to. Steve's letter explains a lot. I wish the winery would have given that letter to KGW. It would changed the whole picture. At least it has for me. I would expect more info to keep coming out.

timerick — January 4, 2014 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Good find. And I'd say The Forum has definitely shown that there's a whole lot more to this story than what was aired on "the other side". We've had three of us who've spent what - about 3 hours - searching out details? I still say that if there was more interest in getting to the bottom of things, and less in going after the BOCC, then stuff like this wouldn't even hit the radar.

Double whatever. I've got to catch up on watching freeholder video and see how far they've gotten. Has the guy from Camas (who beat out Dmitri and me) learned to sit up straight yet? Has Temple Lentz stopped taking notes? Have the professional politicos (Jim and Ann) learned to show up on time? Lots of important questions to get answers to!

roger — January 4, 2014 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What to say the next time you hear someone point to the snow and cold and snort: Global warming. Yeah. Right.

manthou — January 4, 2014 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An organization of scientists based out of MIT that explains the topic of global warming a bit better than your source does. (When I read about parts of Australia reaching 120, I figured "So what?" We've got deserts in Arizona, Nevada and California that often get that hot. I've "enjoyed" that balmy clime a few times in Phoenix and at Fort Irwin. And most of Australia is about 10 degrees closer to the equator, so....)

I'm not entirely certain global warming theories which claim burning hydrocarbons as the main culprit are entirely accurate, however. The detractors who claim the cyclic nature of climate have a scientific backing to what they state. We also were warned several years back that the leveling of the rain forests would lead to what we're seeing now. Overpopulation and poor soil and water conservation practices have to be considered primary contributors.

roger — January 4, 2014 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 3:07

Oh, to be so full of one's self as to actually think the planet Earth is only as big as the distance their own eyes can see.

A New Year's wish to the people of Earth...

Please, please, please keep reading, researching, thinking, evaluating, concluding, surmising, and looking. But mostly try always to recognize those who will say anything, based on absolutly nothing, in order to influence your thoughts, as that is their only goal and helps them to stay relevent in the glow of fame and their own self image. It takes courage, spunk, and tenacity to eliminate prior convictions or closely held truths and replace them with newer ideas and opinions, but like all things, even thoughts and convictions can Evolve. However, there are charlatans and fakers who will say anything, knowing there are those who will always hold fast without questions because grappling with one's own fear and previously arrived-at conclusions is just way too difficult and unsettling.

jacjak — January 4, 2014 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Blindly accepting anything, no matter what "facts" it's based on, is wrong. Those who preach a doctrine usually see things as black and white, whereas reality tends to fall in the gray zone.

roger — January 4, 2014 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 3, 2014 at 3:06 p.m.
timerick — January 3, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.
roger — January 3, 2014 at 5:45 p.m.

Exactly why pot legalization should be at the fed level with few restrictions, to include employers not having the right to unfairly discriminate. Let the market decide on the merits and demand, and screw the micro-managing politico's at the state and local levels. Government should have little business in this area and have gotten away with too much for too long. Government demonization of this plant needs to stop. Embrace the now!

This is your destiny.

I'm watching the Empire Strikes Back. One of the greatest movies of all time imo. Looks great as a reissue.


Anyway, just checking in. Politics right now seem like they've entered into a black hole or something. Maybe it's because congress is rarely at their place of work going about the people's business.


I to, I also, i too; I two am one not to appreciate Lou B's writing all that much. Laird was a gem. Jayne ain't cuttin' it, and on most fronts, the stories seem a bit dull lately. Where are the scoops?

Don't mean to pile on, but just offering personal opinion.

Maybe they should have community guest columnists for their weekend editions. Different subjects and material each week. From politics to comedy to science to cooking to entertainment to stock market speak, whatever. I'm sure our community (professional politicians not allowed) has much unshared talent and opinion to offer. Theatre of the absurd!

Something with the Columbian should change a bit. A little different direction. Something with....pop! A publication that can touch you in places besides your wallet.

I like our paper. I'd just like to like it more.

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 12:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Austerity is a drag.

///Bernanke takes parting shot at Congress, calls fiscal policy 'counterproductive'///

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke offered a parting critique of Washington’s fiscal policy, arguing it weighed down the economic recovery and has been “counterproductive.”

Bernanke, wrapping up his final month on the job, said in a speech Friday that the nation’s fiscal course in recent years has been overly restrictive. As lawmakers looked to cut into the deficit by cutting spending and increasing taxes in recent years, Bernanke argued against that penny-pinching.

“Excessively tight near-term fiscal policies have likely been counterproductive,” he said in remarks before the American Economic Association.

Ever since the financial crisis and recession, the Fed has entered uncharted territory in its efforts to prop up the economy. Bernanke argued that Washington’s obsession with the deficit over the last few years may have missed the mark, and that if the two institutions had worked together to improve the immediate economy, everyone would have been better off.

“With fiscal and monetary policy working in opposite directions, the recovery is weaker than it otherwise would be,” he said. “Monetary policy has less room to maneuver when interest rates are close to zero, while expansionary fiscal policy is likely both more effective and less costly in terms of increased debt burden when interest rates are pinned at low levels.”

Read more @

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 12:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm a bit confused.
Yeah, I'm sure you're not surprised.

In the flu article (today's paper) it states, "H1N1 was first introduced in 2009, then nicknamed 'swine flu'"

I, and everyone else in Navy boot camp, was given an experimental flu vaccine back in 1976 (whether we wanted it or not). A vaccine for the swine flu.

Whatever the heck it was, obviously it isn't any good after 38 years. I've had this darn flu for a week now ;^(

I would LOVE to write a guest piece for the Columbian! The lousy 200 word cap for a LttE doesn't give me near enough room to get wound up ;^)

Drift — January 5, 2014 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The basement’s very own manthou is becoming a celebrity! What’s next? Olympia? Washington D.C.? Maybe Hollywood:))))


While most of you here no doubt think that Lynda Wilson is too dogmatic in her political views, you really ought to pay attention to the comments that Jim Moeller has been making on facebook. Moeller seems to be the epitome of dogmatic. Nothing new about that. Sort of like John Laird:))))

kn_dalai — January 5, 2014 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn-dalai I agree about Jim Moeller. He is so very far left. He is the mirror opposite of Bohner. He likes nothing better than to impose more tax's. The only good thing he does is he wiil answer you if you send him a question. I do like that about him.

timerick — January 5, 2014 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the slightly bored with time on my hands department, and against my better judgement of furthering ridiculous commentary, (HuffPo aside) just thought to track some dirt on this slow forum day.

I was looking a bit into Linda Wilson, and Lew Waters obscure blog came up. Fascinating conversation! Perusing through the comments reads like a Middle School girls locker room. So much he said-she said. The local GOP (assuming these fine upstanding citizens are in the know) sounds as dysfunctional as the ACA rollout. From Berrigan to Crain and all the fringe in between and out, ya gotta love it.

Santorum supporters (imagine having the guts to admit being one!) vs the "PaulBots' vs the absent Liberals. A linear jerk! A Sunday treat-or not.

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Daughter of Satan calls it quits!

///First on CNN: Liz Cheney to abandon Senate bid///

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I enjoyed reading those old comments on Lew Waters' blog.

Here is a neat-o photo of Lynda and Tracy Wilson (a Freeholder?) proudly sporting their expensive Rolex watches:

manthou — January 5, 2014 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 5, 2014 at 9:28 p.m.

A republican version of United Way. I was looking for a donation request at the bottom of pic!

I not only take heart watching local republicans connect so well, but I'm also encouraged to know they are paving party inroads to be relatable and voter friendly.

Seems like our local republicans are mirroring what's happening within in the RNC as well. I hope we all don't get burned on their way down.

I hadn't checked out Lew's blog for some time. It looks like he's getting one or two more hits a month than he used to. Maybe the C's new subscription policy?

Ever get a key made that wasn't keyed well? One you had to jiggle it really hard and hope it would work? (rough edges-too much grind) Carolyn doesn't seem to be keyed according to specs. As a result, she's not opening doors while burning bridges. At least it appears so. Having said that, I think she represents our 2013 republican party quite well. Go Carolyn!

And she scares the living hell out of me. There's that.

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 9:06 p.m. And pretty much everything else you post:))))

Well that’s all nice and everything. But while you’re busy knocking the anti-socialists, one might note that you ignore the most blatantly Leftist agenda of comrade Moeller. :)))) Talk about dogmatic! Quite convenient :))))

manthou — January 5, 2014 at 9:28 p.m.

A few months ago, timeric made a comment about the filthy rich, something like that. It was you manthou, that defended those wealthy as having a right to the wealth that they have earned. You have previously referenced wealthy Republican friends/acquaintances of yours, and have presented yourself as politically well balanced. So while that’s all fine, I’m wondering why it is that you see fit to now reference Republicans who wear Rolex’s.:))))

kn_dalai — January 5, 2014 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another great Jayne write up today! The comments tell it all. They remind me of an impatient crowd throwing garbage at the stage while waiting for the main event. But this is as main as it's gonna get. One commenter, Stevens, (the 24/7 'Obama is evil' guy) embraces the topic by opening with- "In other news..." Kinda funny but...

The social conservatives hopes of a decent Laird replacement are all but gone. He's committed the unpardonable sin of criticizing Palin more than once. He's done.

timerick! roger! Anyone who posts here & on FB. You two should comment more often if possible. FB comments have gone downhill...

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 11:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"But while you’re busy knocking the anti-socialists..."

kn_dalai — January 5, 2014 at 11:08 p.m.

So..anti-socialists are crazies with too much grind? I mostly agree with that if painted on a large canvas with a broad brush, and yeah, maybe you are correct in (I do agree with your premise) saying that's true 90% plus of the time. Although Santorum's brand of religious socialist social conservatism is another beast altogether.

nailingit — January 5, 2014 at 11:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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