Open forum, Feb 4-10



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It promises to be a good day. The Ravens won. I got my nickle from my wife.(Family tradition for over seventy years) The dog's behaving.

Good morning to all.

JohnCasey — February 4, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: Missing comments on the facebook side, banning people again, etc. Looks like both are happening. Comments previously posted by Robert Dean and Greg Owens are now gone (indicating they're on the banned list), and I see a few other responses to comments that aren't there. Some appears to be a judicious removal - like the Pridemore statement referred to here yesterday. And I'm wondering - I could have sworn I responded to an LTE on LRT on the bridge, but that isn't there either. Hmmm....

roger — February 4, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hmm Helicopter flying overhead. Was over Crestline school area then banked to hwy14, then northwest. Just went over my house heading to 205.

ELISI — February 4, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Why would they ban Dean, as his comments are "*extremely civil*"?

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm curious about that very point, Nails.

roger — February 4, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: When the Seattle Times removes posts (to their credit, they do this very rarely), they keep the name of the poster up (it is still anonymous on the ST) with this terse sentence:

"This comment has been removed."

The Columbian, via Lou, has removed only one of my comments and it related to the Bethany Storro story (see she's back in the news). I had posted a link to a Vancouver Voice article that suggested she had faked the attack and the wounds were self-inflicted.

The post was unceremoniously removed.

When I asked Mr. B directly, via the Forum, why it was removed, he gave this answer to all: We don't give free advertising to other media outlets.

Minutes later, the Columbian posted their breaking story of the hoax. Because of this, Lou B was on national news interviews. He, of course, had no trouble posting the links to that free advertising, since he was the subject of the interview.

I teased him about it on the Forum, posting something like: "Well, I guess SOME media plugs are OK, eh?"

The courts are very, very lenient about what constitutes free speech and The Columbian seems to be highly restrictive by comparison. For example, Yelp reviews that say highly derogatory things about a business or a professional are allowed to stand.

Seems like Craig Pridemore's censored opinion yesterday, where he called Lou a "little man" was not protected speech here. In a court, it would be.

Double standard? Just sayin'

manthou — February 4, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Outside of slander, name calling and hate posts I think comments should remain standing.

Regardless of Dean's Crain's, Waters whoever posts I might disagree with to include verbiage and what not, censoring requires a different standard.

I hope you Face Book guys are relentless with wanting answers, to include Pridemore's supposed post.

I thought Pridemore's comment that manthou posted yesterday was over the top bordering on shaky territory, l but that said, it should not have been removed.

Whether right left or in between, I think most of us agree, censoring someone because you don't agree with opinion is wrong.

And to do it as a newspaper is unconscionable.

CensorGate! Let it commence! :)

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 4, 2013 at 6:23 a.m.

Looks like Greg and Robert must have gotten into it and got kicked off. They were having a running argument about Robert not living here and using the term "we" all the time. I went back and couldn't find Pridemore's statement but saw two other that are still there so I guess Lou figured two was enough.

Honestly, I don't get kicking someone off unless they threaten someone or swear a lot. I did, a while back, ask Lou to get a certain person to back off of me because the guy was like a pitbull every time I posted he came after me and tried to turn the conversation to the President, who he hates. But he's still there.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Check that, just saw a post by Greg in the story about the bakery discrimination suit. Either he's back or he was edited.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*This circular firing squad just got a .50 cal.*

**Karl Rove's New Super-PAC: Republicans Attacking Republicans!**

No more Todd Akins. No more Richard Mourdocks. No more Republican primaries that produce divisive, gaffe-spewing GOP candidates.

That's the aim of a new super-PAC, the Conservative Victory Fund, spearheaded by Karl Rove and his big-money juggernaut, American Crossroads. Rove's new project plans to raise millions of dollars from the biggest GOP donors and then spend it on hard-hitting television ads and mailers during GOP primaries in marquee Senate races.

The goal, as the New York Times reported this weekend, is blocking future Akins and Mourdocks from winning Senate primaries, while paving the way for less-divisive candidates with broader appeal and better odds of winning the general election.

"We don't view ourselves as being in the incumbent protection business, but we want to pick the most conservative candidate who can win," Steven Law, the president of American Crossroads and a force behind the Conservative Victory Fund, told the Times.

Read more @

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Chris Christie is on Letterman tonight. Should be interesting. Time to set the DVR.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hats off to Tyler Graf and Susan Parrish in today's story about the tragic and recent suicides of local students.

You included all the "best practices" pieces that experts suggest.

This is a story that should be covered and you did it responsibly.

Good work.

manthou — February 4, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm becoming pro Light Rail more & more everyday. Invalid, duplicate signatures, and still can't get enough to sign on. Lying, cheating and now, extremist conspiratorial Bagger representation.

This thing stinks to high hell.

[Pidgeon ran for attorney general last year as a Republican but was defeated in the primary. He is well-known in the “birther” movement for claiming Barack Obama is a British citizen who later changed his name in British Columbia. Pidgeon has also represented faith-based groups opposed to Washington’s same-sex marriage law.]

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Debbie Peterson and her coven have no idea how little $20,000 will go toward paying off the attorney's fees they will need to litigate a lawsuit of this magnitude.

That $20,000 is a first month's retainer. Unless this Pidgeon guy is willing to do it on contingency, she will be looking a hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This exact group filed a suit against the City of Vancouver to try to stop the Hilton construction, I believe. Their bill, after it was all said and done and lost, was huge, too.

Sometimes it is better to be smart, than right. :)

manthou — February 4, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did you read the stats on this attorney? Talk about a self serving, right wing/tea party wacko. I think he fits right in with her plans but I'm not sure he will be charging too much, I think he could use a win for credibility. But then again, Debbie is a friend of DM so there might be a little back door money there.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't care for this suit of theirs either. The people backing it are putting out the idea that it's up to Vancouver whether the CRC has light rail. If they lose - something possible with a vote restricted to Vancouver - then the message will become - "See, we do want light rail!!"

The vote on light rail, by law, belongs with the C-Tran service district - the same people who voted down the latest Prop 1 covering a sales tax for the LRT O&M.;

The only thing Vancouver has a right to vote on itself is whether City funds can be used for any part of the CRC. This could possibly include the O&M; costs, but I think it would require C-Tran to cede it's responsibility for transit planning to allow this option. I suspect the main thing allowable would be the upgrades to the parking garages city planners were demanding. As you may recall, the Feds only pay for the parking structure; if Vancouver wants a first floor frontage of shops, etc, then they have to foot that bill. And I suppose hanging flower baskets and other frillies along the track lines.

roger — February 4, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou/hawk/roger-So I'm thinking... crooks, lawyers, birthers.....Orly Taitz! I thought, what are the odds of this guy being hooked up with America's Birther Queen.

So I googed orly taitz+stephen pidgeon.


Many sites. (check it out!) Here's a couple of samples...

**Regarding Stephen Pidgeon’s interview**

Posted on | June 4, 2011 |

I got a number of e-mails regarding an interview by Stephen Pidgeon and his claim, that there was a change of name to Barack Obama in British Columbia.

I [Orly Taitz] e-mailed Mr. Pidgeon and asked for a certified copy of this document. So far I did not get it. I have to say, that I consider Mr. Pidgeon a friend. **We went together to lobby state representatives and state senators in his home state of WA. Mr. Pidgeon had one case on eligibility as well.**


To: All

ONE individual has almost single handedly brought Obama's inelgibility to U.S and world wide attention. Image and video hosting by TinyPic This brave little Russian refugee lady has put her life on hold- and in danger to try to save YOUR country. She flies all over the U.S. serving papers, giving speeches, meeting with various officials and giving interviews. This involves great expense, and it is reported that Dr. Orly is over $8,000 in debt from using her own funds in her fight to prove Obama's ineligibility. She needs researchers, lawyers and other volunteers. Please do what you can to help her. Dr. Orly has added renouned attorney, **Stephen Pidgeon as her assistant: .**;=1956

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stephen Pidgeon is the author of several books including The Obama Error.

The Obama Error is an excellent expose on the Leader of the Free World, the person who holds the office of President of the United States, and who is not at all what he and his minions have stated.

The trail of tyranny is deeper than just the so-called “birth certificate” Obama has tried to foist on the public. Stephen tackles Obama’s past and present connections with Radical left-wing socialists, Communists and Muslim extremists who all want the US to fail. He shows very clearly the treasonous acts, and impeachable offenses committed by this “President”, and documents all with legal references and footnotes.

hey, I like this guy for attorney general. he has clear vision of reality, unfortunately. it's his reality and it's kinda strange. how can such a guy become so "prominent"? only in America, where an individual can do nutso things in the name of religion.

mrd — February 4, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — February 4, 2013 at 3:35 p.m

You had me worried there for a second.

I love what Ms. Wentzel says about him. I'm sure it was cut-n-paste from something.

The guy must be great if Josephine vouches for him.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has anyone ever asked Madore if he thinks Obama is a legitimate President? Born in the USA? A Communist? How old the earth is? Just curious.

It would be interesting to poll the no tolls crowd on some issues.

This NO-LR/NO-TOLL/NO-NO crowd had better hang onto their wallets. This has all the makings of a sham.

You get what you pay for.

Maybe celebrity Orly will host a 'fundraiser' for this little project.

It might make the HuffPo! :))

nailingit — February 4, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, all: We should thank Madore, Peterson, Pidgeon, et al for Keeping Clark County Weird.

Nailingit: Good work on the googlin'. What did we do before the internet(s)? I think I will see if there have been any bar complaints.

I have said this before: The Columbian staff must be shivering with anticipation/joy covering this stuff. You just cannot make it up Their jobs just got a whole lotta interesting added.

manthou — February 4, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

7:00 pm Channel 23 on Comcast. Watch it live.

You're cheating yourself if you wait and rely on a report in the C in a few days.

langenthal — February 4, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome back, langenthal!

I only caught the very end of the city council meeting tonight. Thoughts from those who saw the whole thing?

manthou — February 4, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — February 4, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.

The problem is, it's ONLY on comcrap and I have Dish.

hawkeye — February 4, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I watched a bit. The Council wasn't entertaining comment on Light Rail. That's set for next week and is sure to be memorable if one likes a train wreck. However this Peterson lady got up and said a few things before she whooshed off.

I might watch next week to put a personality to some FB posters if they show.

As soon as I wrote this I'm asking myself.. why?

Some of these folks put the tucky in the Van.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*The 2010 election debacle will haunt us for years. Elections have consequences.*

**There Will Be No Budget Deal**

And that means economic disaster may be just around the corner. Michael Tomasky says Obama should start making sure—now—that the public knows which side to blame.

We’re less than a month away now from the sequester, the beginning of the deep budget cuts that will kick in automatically if President Obama and Congress don’t come to a budget deal. I have a news flash for you: There is not going to be any deal in the next 25 days. And here’s another news flash: In the Republican tug-of-war between those who want to protect the Pentagon and those who want to cut spending and damn the consequences, it’s looking like the latter are winning. If they get their way, it’s also almost certain that the austerity the cuts induce will cost a lot of jobs and hurt the economy. So the only thing for Barack Obama to do now is start agitating to make sure the American public blames the right culpable party here.

First, a little info on the cuts and their predicted impact. These across-the-board cuts to defense programs and domestic discretionary programs (not to Social Security and entitlements) would start to take effect March 1, which the parties agreed to in the fiscal cliff deal. Over the next seven months, this would mean $55 billion in defense cuts and $27 billion in domestic cuts. Those are pretty steep cuts.

That’s austerity. Austerity, in difficult economic times, which these still are, is never good. Anything that takes money out of the economy isn’t good. **This is the great paradox of the Republican position that “we” have to learn to live within our means. There’s never been more insidious nonsense put about the land. The only thing severe cutbacks would do is put the recovery at risk.**

**A New York Times editorial Monday noted that at least a million jobs might be lost**, according to a Congressional Budget Office report, if the sequester cuts go into effect. To give you a point of comparison, the economy created 2.2 million jobs last year. And it was a decent year, no better. Imagine subtracting a million to 1.4 million from whatever positive number we get this year. That’s a pretty devastating hit.


It’s hard to know what they really believe, and it’s the same old guessing game. One of two things is true. One, they so despise and distrust government spending that they really do believe no good can possibly come of it and so spending has to be sliced, and if tossing the Pentagon on the fire is the only way to get it started, well, so be it. **Two, they know better, but they figure well, if the economy does tank because of our collective stupid action, Obama’s the president, he’ll get the blame.**

Read more @

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If you have questioned, this says it all....;=H9u2Lf0DdzA

ELISI — February 5, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- Hope this helps.

**November 14, 2010,** Death Panels and Sales Taxes

I said something deliberately provocative on This Week, so I think I’d better clarify what I meant (which I did on the show, but it can’t hurt to say it again.)

So, what I said is that the eventual resolution of the deficit problem both will and should rely on “death panels and sales taxes”. What I meant is that

(a) health care costs will have to be controlled, which will surely require having Medicare and Medicaid decide what they’re willing to pay for — not really death panels, of course, but consideration of medical effectiveness and, at some point, how much we’re willing to spend for extreme care

(b) we’ll need more revenue — several percent of GDP — which might most plausibly come from a value-added tax

And if we do those two things, we’re most of the way toward a sustainable budget.

By the way, I’ve said this before.

Now, you may declare that this is politically impossible. But medical costs must be controlled somehow, or nothing works. And is a modest VAT really so much more implausible than ending the mortgage interest deduction?

So that’s my plan. And I believe that some day — maybe in the first Chelsea Clinton administration — it will actually happen.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is interesting. A shooting at the other end of the spectrum, both age and facility wise.

Will the NRA insist every senior be armed in nursing homes? :) Will this highlight our current crisis of people mistaking 86 year old men with dementia as zombies?

It must be those damn video games.

**Man, 86, held after shooting at Wash. nursing home**

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's always " I should have said, or I meant to say" with these grows tiring to watch and hear them try to clean up what they say...excuses, excuses in my book...

ELISI — February 5, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obama Sequestration Request Calling For Short-Term Budget Fix To Delay Automatic Cuts**

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama will ask Congress to come up with tens of billions of dollars in short-term spending cuts and tax revenue to put off the automatic across the board cuts that are scheduled to kick in March 1, White House officials said Tuesday.

Obama will make his request afternoon in a public statement at the White House.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"*I said something deliberately provocative on This Week*"

ELISI @ 8:35- Actually it was a pre-meditated talking point to capture attention. Evidenced from this media outlet and others. He meant to say it and makes no excuses.

Hope this helps.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Here is my concern about the proliferation of gun-totin' that seems so popular among the masses (as in under-trained in handling these weapons).

None of us can easily control the lizard "fight or flight" part of our brains without considerable conscious effort. You have to practice it. Even trained law enforcement officers let adrenalin rush get the better of their higher power judgments and get trigger happy in tense, emotional situations.

Our frontal lobes shut down when we perceive we are under attack. Our frontal lobes tell us to reason and STOP. Our lizard brains just go on autopilot protect and fight or flee. I tend to flee.

Our tea party dominated WA state legislature now has introduced a bill that would allow this state to IGNORE Federal gun laws and draft an iffy "stand your ground" law. Gov Inslee will be doing a lot of vetoing if any of this makes it through the process beyond the hopper.

Anyhoo, learn what the Valsalva technique is: it is a surefire physical way to calm your blood pressure and give your brain a chance to snap back into smart mode the next time you see Bubba and Bertha Mae walking in Hazel Dell toward you with an AK-15.

If the Republican dominated legislature has their way, he will.

manthou — February 5, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, by the way, nail: Appreciate the effort you made to put that Krugman comment into perspective for us all.

Your frontal lobe in action for all to witness! :)

manthou — February 5, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Our tea party dominated WA state legislature now has introduced a bill that would allow this state to IGNORE Federal gun laws and draft an iffy "stand your ground" law.*

I don't know about you, but I'm confused as to the extent or reasoning states can opt out of Federal law. The info at this link helps to understand somewhat, (although I haven't cross referenced it) but still leaves me wondering. I guess the Supreme Court decides on a case to case basis when states are challenged for non-compliance?

*Our frontal lobes shut down when we perceive we are under attack. Our frontal lobes tell us to reason and STOP. Our lizard brains just go on autopilot protect and fight or flee.*

I agree. Most of us aren't prepared for a level of confrontation involving a gun.

Another component is "when fight or flight" decisions are influenced by alcohol and narcotics. Might as well put that auto pilot on Kamikaze. :)

My frontal lobe has been honed over the years, no doubt attributed to numerous (and continuing) backside extractions. :))

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nail Feb 4 1:18 comment*

I have to agree with this comment.... I have a qiestion for you about the Budget, since you grown so much with your new found business acumen and Googlin ability... What sectors will we see job loss..MFG, Const, Auto, Gov't.. It would be interesting since you can put a number 1.2 million.. Lets see where they will fall...

vanwadreamer — February 5, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 5, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

*Have you noticed or perhaps I haven't heard yet, that none of the elected officials whether is County or city are speaking up for or against gun control?*

Why would they? It's way too controversial for local yokels to deal with. They would rather let the State deal with it and here in the wild West, it is what it is.

The smart thing for the State to do would be to work more toward a way to deal with mental health. More cause rather than effect.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*since you grown so much with your new found business acumen*

Please source.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

you got a new business, nail?

Got a job for me? I can't do anything but I can fake it, at least as good as DM.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It just seems you've found this new knowledge about the economy and how to grow it or retract it... Good for you...It's always great to expand one's knowledge of the business world and how and what affects it's both positive and negative...So what sectors do you see dwindling of the 1 million jobs that might be lost from your new york times article.....

vanwadreamer — February 5, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


couldn't agree more. I just wonder how long our fearless leaders can spout platitudes such as "America can rise to the challenges" or Eastwood's "America may be down but we're not out" commercial before seeing the BS doesn't jive with reality. The empire, as all of them, come and go. We're going, going, but not gone-yet, depending on your definition of gone. But hey, we've got a new aircraft carrier coming online! That'll show 'em, we're #1, we're #1,.....

On a large scale, there's not much hope. The only bright spot may be the US overtaking Saudi Arabia in the next few years as the world's biggest oil producer. That may be great for Texas, ND, OK, and a few others, but with globalization, money hungry corporations, et all, Joe Blow ain't gonna feel nothin'.

If Americans are going to be put to work, the wages as a portion of the cost of the finished product must get very close to the competition, and that will never happen. Can we make it up in efficiency? Not without a tremendous investment and that doesn't seem to be happening at the corporate level or at the educational level.

mrd — February 5, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You two both members of the "Chicken Little Society" ? Quit your bitchin' and invent something. Or would that be against your code.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*you got a new business, nail?*

*Got a job for me? I can't do anything but I can fake it, at least as good as DM.*

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 12:23 p.m.

Only if Monkey business is making a comeback hawkeye, I'm looking myself. Maybe DM would hire us as consultants. Somebody needs to give this guy some decent advice.

This is one public employee who reflects the bad reputation government so often receives.


vanwa- *It just seems you've found this new knowledge about the economy and how to grow it or retract it...*

Again vanwa, please source this new found knowledge of me having new found knowledge.

*It's always great to expand one's knowledge of the business world and how and what affects it's both positive and negative*

It's nice that you share your inner thoughts with us vanwa. Really nice.

*So what sectors do you see dwindling of the 1 million jobs that might be lost from your new york times article.....*

I was sure said article targeted healthcare costs & raising taxes with relation to GDP...

I haven't given it much thought. Hold on.

.....O......O.....o.......o........O.......O........o....%+$=?........Got it.

<<<<>>>>I see the..{cough}... pot industry making gains>>>>>...Hula Hoops will take a downturn<<<<< as well as lead based paint<<<<<...and a rise in Twister>>>>> (the game where you move your hands & feet on colored circles) sales in the southwest.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

oooOOOTwister! Sorry for any confusion vanwa. <<<<>> in fiscal year 2013.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You two both members of the "Chicken Little Society" ? Quit your bitchin' and invent something. Or would that be against your code.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.


holycrap & mrd- Man, you guys are in the basement's basement digging holes. What's up with that?

What we have to watch out for in the near term is the DOD aspect of this sequester. If our elected start shifting pre-determined Defense savings onto the backs of social services within the framework of this current sequester, it's time to march on Washington.

I don't think it'll happen. We're going to find out this second term President will show more "socialist" resolve than he did in his first term. (fingers crossed)

At least i hope so.

In part, due to Obama's legacy considerations.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I would like to design custom urinals to reflect mankind's war with itself.

It would have a fan attached.

For those who piss in the wind!

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There is one thing I can say is you do make me laugh when i'm a little down.. Have the crud that is going around....

Healthcare cost are rising through the roof. As i'm sure those with health care know by now. Everyone has taken double digit increases this year.. Less people will have health care this year than last. I know of a couple families who are in mid 30's and just said F88888 it..... I will pay for what i need ....They had been paying oevr $1100 a month each and one went to $1600....I still think a very low portion will sign up for Obama care as the price will still be more than they want to spend.. If more than 20% sign up I'll be surprised which will still leave 32 million uninsured.

Hawk, why do you have such disdain for DM when he is paying this person out of his pocket which really means no skin to us Taxpayers ... Is it because he can and others can't or don't want too... Maybe he does no a little more than you and I and has a broader plan which requires an assistant of his choosing... My Boss doesn't care who I hire as long as I get the job done....Don't say because she works at the county.. Many counties in wa have hired outside help...

vanwadreamer — February 5, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 5, 2013 at 1 p.m.

I've been reading your posts for some time now...and am curious regarding something a bit beyond job creativity and the lack thereof. I agree with your posts but am concerned that if we continue down this path of...well...stagnant industrialism (or whatever it would be called) you think this could lead to other issues such as increased hunger, leading to an increase in starvation and death of massive proportions since adequate health care is a problem as it stands right now worldwide?

I honestly believe our country is no different than let's say...third-world countries. I believe the upcoming Obama-imposed health care program for our nation starting next year will not be supportable - economically speaking - and I believe it will be a financial failure to our nation (government sector as well as private sector) as companies will most likely reduce hours on their employees to avoid paying coverage for each enrollee, a reduction of production OR they'll close up altogether, leaving more people out of work and only the BIG BOX guys in business - a monopoly of sorts...and I'm almost wondering if this is a cycle of human existence which we're about to experience in hyper speed.

I honestly want to see your opinion regarding this and if you believe I'm incorrect in my line of thinking, please explain why. Thanks.

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*There is one thing I can say is you do make me laugh when i'm a little down.. Have the crud that is going around....*

@ 3:38- In all seriousness vanwa, if that's all my posts ever accomplish it would be more than I expected.

I hope you get to feeling better. My wife has the crud also.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Soooo....What's the latest excuse now for the sudden spike in gas prices???

Shutdown of one or more refineries for maintenance?

Oil Rig issues?

US Dollar sliding by a ha-penny again?

Another terror threat?

A gas pump explosion at some remote gas station in the middle of nowhere, USA?

Low profit margins due to all the hybrids?

Power Failure at the Stupor Bowel?

The WORST Stupor Bowel commercials and halftime entertainment ever? (The only thing good about it was Beyonce's old pals from Destiny's Child joining in, giving a bit of class to the show.)

'Niners losing the Stupor Bowel after a great comeback? Okay...I just had to throw the last three in to see if anybody was reading.

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vanwadreamer...I hope you are feeling better soon. Took me three months to shake it and am still sporting a bit of a cough. It'll take the wind outta ya!

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 5, 2013 at 3:38 p.m.

Yes, he would be paying her out of his pocket BUT, BUT, BUT (is that clear?) BUT, he will be giving her tasks to do and she (a NON-county employee) will be giving county employees tasks to do for DM and she will be taking up space in the county office and using county supplies and be privy to documents that are and should be confidential. Along with the fact that it would be an advantage that he other Commissioners won't have. Why would he need an assistant?

Does he have more work than the other Commissioners? Or does he just think he's more important? Or does he think he's above the "grunt work" that everyone else has to do.

What I mostly dislike about DM is his unmitigated arrogance!

Should I go on or is that good enough for you?

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.

YES!!!! Terrible halftime show. Don't really care for Beyonce', can't understand a thing she sings and then she only sings half or less of a song and her backup singers do all the rest. Can't understand them either.

As far as I can tell on the gas prices, maintenance. That's what I've been reading. Maybe an early Spring rate increase, it's a ripoff either way.

The best commercial was the Budwiser Clydesdale one. LOVED IT!

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just watched the Chris Christie interview on Letterman. Great show. He was funny, smart and honest. Jersey definitely has a great Governor. Even if he is a Republican.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I saw a video of the Christie interview, too, and thought, as I have many times before: "I really like a lot of things about this guy."

Washington State is now giving us all an opportunity to comment online about pending bills.
Check it out here:

[link text][1]


manthou — February 5, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrapola, just checking through Australia's Medicare which is their universal health care...not everything is covered. You have to buy private comprehensive insurance if you want to cover things like costs for ambulance services, prostheses, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, eye therapy, chiropractic services, podiatry or psychology (except specified items introduced for allied health services as part of the Enhanced Primary Care (EPC) program), hearing aids or other appliances, medications except for the subsidy on meds covered by Pharmaceutical benefits, acupuncture and private hospital costs. To add the recommended comprehensive coverage, it could cost an average of $1400(Aussie dollars of course) per year per person on top....and that doesn't even account for deductibles the patients have to cover for some expenses. Is it really more affordable??? Hard to say.

Employers in Australia can qualify for an insurance rebate to help curb some of the costs to insure their employees.

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*""In my opinion we are controlled by evil people that don't give a crapola about sustainability, pollution, garbage food, etc. We are guinea pigs of the best kind because we do not have the courage to change history. We are too cozy at home waiting for something to happen and that is precisely what the ones on top want. A passive citizenry, controlled by laws made in such a way the benefit just the few.""*

*holycrapola — February 5, 2013 at 4:05 p.m.*

Well stated, holycrapola!!!

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

DANG!!! The *ONE COMMERCIAL* I wanted to see...and I missed it! (head shaking in total disappointment). I ALWAYS LOVE THE CLYDESDALES!!! I just checked it out on an internet feed...AMAZING as usual and definitely not disappointing. Guess that one is right up there with the best of the best! Oh how neat it would be to experience one ON one with a Clydesdale like "Hope." Definitely tops in my book!

goldenoldie — February 5, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- *A freaking urinal attachment for men or women that will save a gazillion gallons of water for the world to benefit.*

Great idea! You should engage a large corporation for high volume production. How about Motorola?

The latest technology in water conservation and urinary waste management...

Introducing the...

Motorola Pissapola by Crapola

"Sounds Italian, yet not!"

...sorry, I got my pharmaceutical pain meds refilled yesterday.

But I get a cut of profit if you use suggested name. :)

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I left three comments on new bills via the easy online commenting system in the state legislature.

Easy. You get to select Oppose, Neutral, or Support and then you are given a short couple of sentences to explain, if you so choose. You do have to register, however.

There should be no excuses for not letting the legislature know how you feel about the bills being introduced. It could not have been easier.

manthou — February 5, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The best bet to win over these evil people is to be as healthy as we can be. Eat as healthy and nutritious as we can afford. Stop buying into every dumb celebration they want to spend money on to include valentines, easter, mother and father day, secretary day, xmas, new year, cruises and everything that we don't need and get back to basics."

Let's look at these one at a time.

"The best bet to win over these evil people is to be as healthy as we can be. Eat as healthy and nutritious as we can afford.

The phrase, "nuritious as we can afford" is a good point. As long as Mac'n'cheese in a box, or Top Ramen noodles, or who knows what, potatoes, can and does provide the most calories per dollar, what will poor folks buy? Yup, that stuff. Problems with obesity? I think poor diet has one helluva bearing on this nation's health care expenditure/delivery problem, but we have so many poor folks, their options for food choices are limited-very limited. And so it goes.

Comparing the for profit health care system along with a for profit insurance and big pharma is worse than apples and oranges. No other country in the 29 member EDOC does so, and the US rates 27th. Right in front of Turkey & Mexico, the only other countries that have no national health insurance policy. If you REALLY want to compare a single payer system to another, ask Medicare recipients how they like it. See how many baggers wanna give that up.

For you folks that think I'm doing the "chicken little" thing, invent something yourselves. Good luck. As far as paying for any "socialist" reform, I agree, we should but won't. Simply can't afford it. Sad to say, education will suffer, and that will knock US out right off the bat.

Further, wait until OPEC decides not to base oil on the US dollar, or China calls in it's holdings of US bonds. China has already hinted it would prefer a different currency to be the exchange currency, and as it's now the most powerful economy in the world, they'll get it eventually, and our dollars will be worthless. Inflation? Whoa!

mrd — February 5, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, you guys in the basement are really digging holes tonight. Personally I'm hopeful for the future. I look at my kids and those they surround themselves with and I'm proud. By and large the under 30 crowd are not only great contributors to our society, but wonderful people as well. Hard workers who are earning their keep, to include returning Vets and their families. So many times us older folk focus on the negatives with the younger generation.

I look at government and the direction we're headed. I think some forget how bad the economy was and how far we've come in many areas. Things are getting better, trending better. Profits are up and employment is improving.

This election the people overwhelmingly voted for a more liberal progressive America.

People now can marry whom they wish without lawful discrimination in many places to include our own great state. Gays can openly serve our military.

Women are finally being recognized as equals for promotions in the military, as well as increasing their number in Congress.

And yeah, advocating for legalized pot for more decades than I can remember, it's cool it's legal, in spite of some items to be ironed out.

I'm thankful we have a Democratic Governor and a President who will protect our social safety net.

I'm thankful some hard core so-called conservative values are being shelved for a brighter, less bigoted future that looks to our countries needs for a greater tomorrow, understanding investment is critical.

And a lot of other things...

Hell...I'm just hopeful I guess.

Because I've seen a lot of change.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You mentioned yesterday you were starting to favor light rail, but gave no reasons other than noting your dislike of those opposed to it. Perhaps you can do better than the LRT proponents on the facebook side - Can you provide anything substantive that can put LRT on the positive side of the balance sheet?

And if you're going to go with the improvements to our economy - kindly support this. Despite all the claims for this, there has been no business that's said they'll relocate here if we have LRT. But we do have a few developers and associated businesses who say they can make a lot of money building high rise apartment buildings down at old Boise Cascade if LRT comes here - maybe the rest of us paying for them to be able to do this is OK with you?

There are nutsos and unscrupulous people on both side of this issue. You've addressed Petersen and Madore. How about old Pat Campbell (he still pops up occasionally) and Mayor Tim? To quote Mayor Pollard -- "Mr. Leavitt was on the Council for seven years. He knew exactly what was going on. What the conditions were. And what had to be done. Has to live with that and figure out how to weasel his way out of it."

roger — February 5, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 7:13 p.m.

"people overwhelmingly voted for a more liberal progressive America"

You do realize don't you that more voters didn't bother to vote than voted for Obama?

frobert — February 5, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Women are finally being recognized as equals for promotions in the military...."

There's a problem here. Women can rise to the top of a career field within the military on the support side - Logistics, Signal, Personnel, etc. But they can't rise to the very top, because those positions are reserved for the warfighters - the Combat Arms fields. That's what's behind this latest push to allow women to serve in combat units - someone seems to think they'll prove their ability to lead troops into combat, and soon we'll have women at the top.

But there's a problem. On the Army side, you see those top leaders almost always wearing one or both of a couple of tabs - they say Ranger and Special Forces. Been there. And as for this latest plan - Sorry. It ain't happening.

roger — February 5, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yo Fro - but he still won. Mitt lost. Maybe people instead of sitting at home moping should have voted then. Ron Paul just didn't make it. Sorry.

I think HC, in his own twisted cat way, is on to many good ideas (I do leave out the peepee contraption which is IMO just...bizarre, but funny). He is also correct with his pessimism and he is certainly correct with his overall assessment (minus the 12 union stuff and government workers providing free service to us for a few years, then moving on. But Nail is also right-let's be a bit more optimistic here, ok? Try and find something to be positive about in this country. Yeesh. I am sure we could all come up with ONE positive thing in a list.

Personally, I am still typing away here, ergo I am still alive. A positive fact today!

luvithere — February 5, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*but gave no reasons other than noting your dislike of those opposed to it*

I opposed no one but the process and the mindset behind hiring of a delusional conspiracist bagger.

*You've addressed Petersen and Madore*

Depending how you define "addressed", I've said nothing of Peterson. Just that she spoke. Why make such a reach?

*Can you provide anything substantive that can put LRT on the positive side of the balance

Oh my God..... NO! I get into enough pissing matches without getting into something I personally think reaches ridiculous levels of ridiculousness.

Nobody knows more than you sir roger. From every corridor, parking garage, side street, alley way, fire hydrant and locked dumpsters, you know your stuff dude. Where to move em, what businesses should do well....etc. etc.

That's great. That's what you're into and you seem to be becoming the go to guy instead of your celebrated Dean. Most of the time you give logical answers and offer ideas I'm sure most understand. Is your poster child for civility still banished from the website?

I suppose at the same time I might ask you to prove your opinion and not conjecture as to your proposed failure of light rail. But you can't. You can only give your opinion based on assumption.

It's going to happen roger, I know I know, it's horrible, and it will cost you a few dollars. But it's going to happen. Evil Light Rail is coming!!!

I'll take a look over there. Considering you are stooping to my level concerning this subject (as you know I have little interest), I'm guessing your message wasn't received well today.

What really concerns me roger, first and foremost, is the willingness of voters to accept the way DM has handled himself and chose to further his/this cause.

To vote against something you don't agree with is one thing, but to sell out ethics and process, just one step away from the selling of souls. Not cool.

It's the old 'the end justifies the means, as long as I agree with the end.

It's the lack of respect and disdain for process that should wake you guys up.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*You do realize don't you that more voters didn't bother to vote than voted for Obama?*

frobert — February 5, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.

Really? I knew most Republicans stayed home understanding their party could not pick a decent representative to run for president but I never thought.....fro thanks for the info. Let's try and have a 'get the vote out' message next election.

And it was not only lacking a proper candidate. It's said that a tribute to Roseanne Barr, with TNT network running seasons one and two of ROSEANNE on election day, could have kept upwards of 22 million republican voters at home.

Long time fro, you get the boot from your other site?

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- If you're in the mood, would you please elaborate a bit with this post?

The real issue here, as far as I'm concerned, is that our working class got way too uppity in the 20th Century - We actually grew up believing we had the right to a comfortable lifestyle with all the amenities and toys. Corporate America has managed to knock down the private sector workers, and now the public sector ones need to be cut to their level - then that process can continue further.

roger — February 2, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

E-mail Jaime. A don't bogart that bill campaign.

**Marijuana Legalization Bill, Federal Taxation Measure Set For Introduction In Congress**

* Bills would regulate marijuana, impose federal tax -lawmakers

* Effort follows legalization in Washington state, Colorado

By Susan Heavey

WASHINGTON, Feb 5 (Reuters) - U.S. states would be free to decide whether to legalize marijuana without running afoul of federal law but would require purchasers to pay federal taxes on its sale under legislation being proposed by two Democratic lawmakers.

The proposed bills in the House of Representatives aim to offer a new federal policy toward pot, amid a growing movement to legalize it for personal use, whether recreational or medical.

**Representatives Earl Blumenauer of Oregon and Jared Polis of Colorado, both Democrats,** planned to introduce the legislation on Tuesday.

One bill would end a federal ban on marijuana and give states jurisdiction over its use and regulate it in a similar way to alcohol sales, while the other would levy a federal tax, the congressmen said in a statement.

**The Democrats' bills likely face a hurdle in the House where Republicans hold a majority and control what legislation moves forward.** A similar, bipartisan effort by other representatives failed to gain traction in 2011.

Read more @

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*But there's a problem. On the Army side, you see those top leaders almost always wearing one or both of a couple of tabs - they say Ranger and Special Forces. Been there. And as for this latest plan - Sorry. It ain't happening.*

roger — February 5, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.

HA! Oh contraire mon frere

Seals méfiez-vous!

nailingit — February 5, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 5, 2013 at 3:26 p.m

The problem with your urinal idea is that it needs water to dilute the urine. It's very corrosive and tends to build up in pipes causing the pipes to plug up. Also, it's not sanitary. Now maybe you could devise a system that picks up rainwater to flush toilets and urinals.

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 11:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 5, 2013 at 11:21 p.m.

There's already a few rainwater-collector flushing systems out on the market.

goldenoldie — February 6, 2013 at 4:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey HC, I did say some of your ideas are good. I do agree, I am just not into poop mining. It also does not solve the one issue where we fully agree: the migration south for jobs. So do you have any suggestions for how to bring the jobs here? We can't all move to Oregon so we need to find work here. So how do we get companies to move across the river?

luvithere — February 6, 2013 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of migration to the south bank of the Columbia, WW reports that the Clackamas County Commission will be considering a resolution on the CRC. Here is a draft copy:

[link text][1]


I found another thing that David Madore was preaching that I agree with: stay on the north bank of the river to shop. Support WA businesses, rather than making that troublesome trip across the cranky bridge to save a few cents in sales tax.

It would be nice if Clark County had a couple of mega-employers like Oregon to keep workers on this side, too.

manthou — February 6, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 6, 2013 at 5:46 a.m.

I'm not pokin' fun. In fact, I'm glad SOMEONE here is at least trying with some ideas rather than sittin' and complainin'.

One question for you on your 6:45 am comment. You speak of expanding our city with a "WOW" factor but I'm concerned regarding such a bold move. With the possible increase in visitors and migration to our area, how would our local police, fire and rescue be able to handle it...given their issues with funding??? The ideas are great, but we have to look at it from all sides before venturing forth.

goldenoldie — February 6, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And holyc...isn't that what the city is trying to do with the waterfront property as a start? Look at the level of opposition just for that project alone. They brought the Hilton to Vancouver...and where are they with that move???

There has to be more than just building up and out. You have to be able to fill those vacancies, holyc.

There's already entrepeneurship zones on the east side near Fire Station 6 and up on 99th street and SR 503...still vacancies in both zones.

Something else is missing, holyc...

For a community to be noticed, I believe they need corporations with international exposure (unfortunately) or they just become a sleeper town like we've become. We used to have Hewlett Packard here as well as Jantzen Sportswear, Fujitsu and others...all have since moved away. We couldn't even land Nike in our town in recent weeks, so who's going to want to come to our neck of the woods if we're being turned away by famous companies??

goldenoldie — February 6, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Should we possibly include a bit of Hollywood to the pot of future prospects??? I believe we've already had a couple of television shows/movies grab a couple of shots on this side of the river.

Maybe increase the artsy scene...bringing in more artists and writers up front and center. Heck, there's a writer or two among us who's posting quite often here. Maybe a new center similar to Rose Quarter might help...bringing in fantastic shows other than just music interests, fairs, moto, horse events and such, like we have at the Fairgrounds which are good...but don't quite have that certain attention getter I speak of. I'm speaking national skating events, Operas, Ballet...even Cirque du Soliel.

Hmm...don't know if the people would go for such ideas, though. So many in our county like it to be that laid-back country maybe we need to focus more on that as an attention getter. More green industries (not necessarily solar/wind...just companies going LEED certified and a county which prides in itself for keeping that "country" atmosphere while ever improving.

Hmm... still thinkin'.

goldenoldie — February 6, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The longer I try to understand this birther movement, the more black and white it becomes..

**Missouri House Speaker: 'Close, Personal Constituent' Made Me a Birther**

It was a "constituent of mine," who led Missouri Speaker of the House Tim Jones, R-Eureka, to join Orly Taitz's crackpot birther lawsuit trying to have Barack Obama removed as president of the United States because, according to them, he is not a natural-born American citizen.

But not just any constituent, Jones told St. Louis Fox 2's Charles Jaco on The Jaco Report Sunday.

"It was a very personal constituent of mine," Jones said.

Jones never named that personal constituent, leaving the viewer to wonder just what kind of "personal constituent" could convince a state legislator to attach his name and alleged reputation to a frivolous lawsuit.

Perhaps it was some mentor who paved the way for Jones' meteoric rise to the top of the Missouri House of Representatives.

Or could it have been a childhood friend whose dying wish was to see Tim Jones proudly wearing the mantle of birther?

It could have been as simple as a buddy telling Jones over a couple of beers, "Look, if I can sign up one more birther, I have a chance to win an AR-15."

Thank God that "very personal constituent," who remained unnamed, did not ask Jones to make the Cabbage Patch Doll the official state slaw of Missouri, or we might have a massacre of unbelievable proportion.

My suspicion, as I sit in this midwestern Shangri-La where I am told federal laws, rules and regulations (especially regarding guns and health care) do not apply, is that the true answer may have something to do with some of the fringe elements who always lurk around the Missouri GOP and the millions of dollars they toss around.

Perhaps the reason Tim Jones and his colleagues are pushing legislation that could cripple public schools, destroy unions and eliminate a state income tax is because of "close, personal constituents" like retired St. Louis billionaire Rex Sinquefield, who contributed $100,000 to Jones' reelection campaign last year, despite the fact that Jones faced no opposition. You know, the kind of close personal friend who will tell you the KKK started public education in the United States. At first, you don't believe it, but Sinquefield can give you 100,000 reasons why it is true.

Read more @

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 6, 2013 at 9:16 a.m

Well, you could run for Vancouver Mayor or County Commissioner. All you would have to do is MOVE HERE.

hawkeye — February 6, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- You want investment yet give no details on funding. Your pipe dreams are just that. I can relate to that.

You promote austerity and investment in the same breath. Where's the moola crapoola?

On another matter...

*Take me for example. I got everything I want and still I want to get rid off half of what I have. I makes me sick to have fallen on the consumer's trap. I need 2 or 3 pair of shoes, not 25 just to name a dumb example. I could wear my old shirts until I die and on and on.*

holycrapola — February 5, 2013 at 4:18 p.m.

There are some good charities to match your dreams. Give me a ring if you're giving away your sailboat!


What I spoke of yesterday @ 3:28...Beware!

**Cabinet under 'gag order' on sequester**

It’s no accident that the fight over multibillion-dollar cuts to every government agency sounds a lot like cuts hitting one agency — the Pentagon.

The reason: It hasn’t been a fair fight.

Top officials at three domestic agencies say they were instructed by the White House not to talk about the looming sequester cuts unless their talking points were first cleared by the Office of Management and Budget.

The direction from the White House so infuriated Senate Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Barbara Mikulski that she’s planning a hearing next Thursday to give domestic agencies a chance to make their case by inviting officials from OMB, Treasury, Health and Human Services, Education, Housing and Urban Development and Homeland Security.“It’s been under a gag order,” the Maryland Democrat said of President Barack Obama’s Cabinet to POLITICO. “I’m against gag rules.”

Read more:

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I liked most of your ideas.. Way to go, someone looking at the big picture....Instead of tearing down one agenda after another. I remember this great quote "Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people." Enough said....

*That kind of leadership does not exist here in Clark County for the most part and I have no idea why not.* The reason is we have some of the wrong people at these positions that don't have a visionary concept bone in their body.. having worked with several over the past 10 years I find it halarious they are employed with the city and county at all.... We do need fresh blood at the highest levels that actually have ideas they want to implement and lay them out for everyone to see... Yes I'll pick on Obama... he was just full of promises and many people fell in LOVE with that type political rhetoric as do many people.
Myself on the other hand live in the real world that requires real ideas to get things done... The single biggest thing past generations have done was to come up with great ideas which have created most of what we have today.

That being said, at the local level we have people that not only have failed in their own business but are trying to make busienss decisions for other businesses when they shouldn't be in that position in the first place...That brings up Madore... Successfull businessman and someone who has a vision who has shared some of it with us.. We need to give him time and not berate him for everything we disagree with.. Heck we gave Obama a second term and he hasn't even created a single budget...Let alone a jobs bill.. Oh yeah he did create Obamacare... How's That working out so far, everyone paying more taxes for less coverage....
Your on the right track, we just now need to have the right people making the decisions...A new bridge will bring new good paying jobs to Clark County, I also think it will have an impact on more peole staying local to buy local...I used to work accross the bridge but got the entrepreneurial bug and opened a business in Clark County...

vanwadreamer — February 6, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 6, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.

I'm not too sure that pool would work in our climate.

Too bad so many people are against the LaCenter casino. It could have been a pretty good draw.

I hear the Mall of America is a pretty good draw, we could build a huge one tax free!

hawkeye — February 6, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- Great pic. I'm guessing the weather is conducive to beach front popularity.

Where is the most money made? We need a reason for Portlanders to spend their money.

Again, VanVegas. Convince a Steve Wynn or a (God forbid) Trump to invest. Gambling, first class entertainment, great food at cheap prices, cater to the local patrons with giveaways. Keep most everything on the waterfront so we still have that country feel for the rest of Vancouver.

Maybe a classy casino in the Lake Shore area. :) Stations Casino's have made a fortune putting nice casinos/hotels in the burbs of Vegas, and they are appreciated by everyone.

Of course the walking conservative contradiction who some of you put in office would no doubt object on "moral" grounds.

He and others would need to be pacified to let it pass.

We could promise him and his top tier commando's free lawn care from undocumented immigrants for a year. That should do it.

And besides, we'll need Portlander revenue to pay for our tolls n' lightrail!

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I still wish we as a people would have honest conversations about legalizing prostitution.

Get these girls (and guys) off the street and into a regulated work environment where safety is paramount, for both worker and client. It truly is the oldest profession in the world and we'll never eradicate it.

So many get the idea to advocate for something is to endorse it. I'm not doing so in this case. I frown on this type of exploitation. Just looking at ways to lift people up, protect them, and at the same time put some $$$ into our county coffers.

We should look to other countries as models such as Germany . See what works and what doesn't.

As with drug use, other so called vices aren't going anywhere. Regulate em', tax em', control em' and bless em'.

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap @ 11:50- AMEN.

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lots of things could be done here but one of the big problems is regulation.Several years ago a group wanted to have power boat racing on the Columbia and and they found out there was to much opposision to it.I know we don't have the weather that the Tri Citys have,but our summers would work.We need to encourge these kind of ideas instead of just saying no.Like what was said earlier we need young fresh ideas.Maybe it is time those of us in our 60's and older should step aside and the youth run with it.

timerick — February 6, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, Nails - It appears you have no reason to favor light rail, other than that people you don't like are opposed to it. And your 11:27 a.m. closing comment shows you've attended the same school of repartee as Mike Yancey.

roger — February 6, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 6, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.

You really want to draw people to Vancouver from far and wide? On the corner of Hwy 503 and Padden Parkway put in an In-N-Out Burger and right next to it (across the parking lot, big parking lot) a Tim Hortons. We are talking customers from California to Canada, eh!

hawkeye — February 6, 2013 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's always pleasant to stand in your judgement sir roger.

I believe your head is starting to explode. Step back.

It appears your reason to be against light rail is because it'll cost you a couple bucks, not giving a damn for the future.

And I don't know any of these people. Only what they post as opinion.

Now you're attempting to demean this guy Yancy, or some make some weird comparison in another forum. Why? Apparently you have found your inner Lew.

This .. spirit that drives so many of these's some ugly strain of conservatism.

I'm afraid you might be getting caught up in it bro.

Not standing in judgement here but try meditating. Relax and accept others differences.

Will you be speaking next week at this clash of titans thingy?

Please address post @ February 5, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ..... if you're in the mood.

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Inn n Out.

Great name for a bordello, but it's already taken.

How about The Rising Sun?

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Always a good thing to step back, breathe deep, and exhale (hold a little longer for herb:). Take stock of what's important, allow yourself to experience what it must be like to be in another's shoes. Let self go. Let your ego die for a spell.

At least long enough to remember what's truly important to you in life.

Look forward somewhat to future generations.

I'm a strong believer in the golden rule.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you type stuff. I've raised my kids with it and live my life by it. If everyone did then the world would be...pretty close to perfect.

But until then...

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

He should have felt an obligation to let the voters know this was his plan. The way he was planning on conducting himself once in office.

Oh to be a king.

It's that do unto others stuff.

This public employee needs to be reigned in. This and the article about Benton's abortion initiative are telling.

Republicans/Conservatives employ and enjoy big activist government as long as it suits their narrow one sided social religious agenda. But we already knew this. Duped takes on new meaning.

A life sized Bush cardboard cut out play man in his workplace indeed. We need to put some adults in charge.

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the article, *Madore promised during the campaign to bring in his own staff and pay for the hires out of his own pocket.*

Perhaps I'm mistaken. I don't remember this pledge.

nailingit — February 6, 2013 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And once again, Nails, you have nothing to support the stand you took on the CRC. Plan for the future? Several have already addressed this - LRT does nothing to improve the traffic flow across the river - the only ones who will benefit are those who want to go to downtown Portland when the C-Tran express buses aren't running. They can already do this by taking the #4 bus to Delta Park and then picking up MAX. Meanwhile, the traffic jam will grow ever larger.

And you want to know something, Nails? It won't cost me a cent. See, I'm a federal gov't employee and can get subsidized by the Feds - meaning YOU will pay so I can ride to work for free. I refuse to use this option right now, but if faced with an $8 plus toll to support some idiotic social engineering program - well, open your wallet, pal.

My concern is and will remain those tens of thousands who commute to P'Town every day - to their jobs that pay perhaps $30-$40K per year. The people who work away from the MAX, and will have to hop another bus or two to get to work. The people who pay the additional cost to drive now because they can get to work in a half an hour or so, whereas using public transportation will take 1-2 hours each way. The people who haven't seen a pay raise in years; if anything, they've had their pay cut and have been told they're lucky to even have a job. I couldn't give a shit less about gov't workers, Nike employees and techies going to Intel, and PSU college students - my take is that if they want to live here in The Couve and save tens of thousands on their housing costs, and have the best schools in the area, the tradeoff is shut up and wait in traffic with the rest of us.

roger — February 7, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You could give a what? Above the rules now eh? You've immersed yourself so far into this weird mentality civility has taken a back seat with you. Think about it.

*And once again, Nails, you have nothing to support the stand you took on the CRC.*

Only the future and improving the here and now! You don't listen. The kind of folk that support activist government with the ends justify the means mentality seldom do.

Maybe if I broke a contract or said God bless you it would make a difference?

*See, I'm a federal gov't employee and can get subsidized by the Feds*

Good for you. Another taxpayer funded employee standing in the way of using public funds to move our community forward. Nothing to shout about roger, and your stated nobility falls waay short,...and besides...

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, do you ever get the feeling you're discussing CRC issues with hot-air balloons??? Some just don't get the fact that light rail is not the answer for our community. Not now at least.

The missing link...*job infrastructure*. As long as there are no major corporations for which the light rail would benefit those utilizing MAX from Portland to the core of downtown Vancouver, there is no economic basis for such an implementation. Instead, the utopian-blinded group following the hollow dream of bringing light rail to Vancouver with the thought that "if we build it, they will come," cannot fathom the issue of putting the burden not only on the taxpayers, but on SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS who are already strapped for cash as it is. Never mind the increased burden on police, fire and rescue as well as traffic issues associated with city streets and MAX lines. Do we really want the same headache that plagues downtown Portland???

The problem herein lies...just who should pay for MAX to Vancouver? Should federal tax dollars be wasted on a light rail line to Clark College to benefit a highly-limited ridership from Oregon? Should taxpayers pay for the maintenance and operations of MAX? We've already said NO...but do they understand why? What benefits would MAX bring to the people of Clark County, given they would have to consolidate near Clark College in order to ride to Portland...and what would the transit times be for someone coming from let's say...Battleground and had to commute to Intel or NIKE??? Is there enough incentive to get more on board to ride such a long commute? How could they improve commuter time???

I still stand by the idea of a third bridge - west of I-5...possibly a bypass lane to West Marine Drive OR to Hwy 30 to Cornelius Pass which in my opinion has needed improvements for many, many years.

Once, I believed the I-5 Bridges should be left alone in their original design...being on the register of historic bridges, but after witnessing last year, what the folks with Thompson Metalfab had to endure when moving heavy equipment under the bridge...there should be a better solution. A single-level bridge apparatus much like I-205 WITH BRT lanes and center bike lane should suffice WITH a design to incorporate improvement of river traffic issue plaguing tug boat operators. Future plans should be designated in order to replace the railroad bridge west of I-5 with lanes designated future expansion SHOULD the need actually exist. As of does not.

Just my two cents.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another penny into the pot...

I STILL believe the Waterfront Project is a plus for our city and STILL believe they should incorporate a "classic" trolley system from the waterfront to downtown and over to the Fort area, much like the design once used in downtown Vancouver (not the modern-day trolley design such as Portland's)...working with the historic significance which holds to much of what the local region of downtown AND the Fort area has to offer. We should most definitely bank on our historic significance of the region and how Vancouver came to be in the first place...but do it with modern efficiency and in good taste. Festivals and fairs could highlight the locale...maybe even include Horse and Carriage rides along the way during festivities which reflect historically-significant celebrations.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 7, 2013 at 6:22 a.m.

OK, my turn to weigh in on this LRT thing.

First off, you are right, Roger, it's not going to solve the traffic problem. It is very limited in the amount of people it can carry and the speed in which it can travel. If it's going to be an express, it can't go through North Portland and stop at every corner. Buses have much more flexibility. Secondly, if it's going to dead-end at the college (stupid place BTW) the traffic coming off the freeway in the morning IS going to block the freeway and the complete distance to the parking garage. If they are truly trying to get people out of their cars, it needs to go to the already built park and ride locations up I-5. Third, the expansion should not be paid for by anybody on this side of the river, it should be funded the same way Tri-Met gets all of their funding, either Federal money or their own money. If they are going to profit from our fares, why should we pay them for the privilege to do that? Of course we know why the city wants it downtown, they think it will re-energize downtown and bring more business there when in fact it will just cause more congestion and litter.

I know you didn't ask for my input Roger, but here it is anyway.

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Can anybody please explain to me the significance of an entire bike deck for cyclists and pedestrians...when they're pushing for light rail which would carry the cyclists AND pedestrians to their destinations in a safer, more efficient method? Seems to me, they've put far too much into the current design structure. there's going to be a sudden surge of bicyclists and walkers going along I-5 into downtown Portland!

They truly need to rethink bridge design if they want an efficient and cost-effective crossing...especially with the height discrepancies and lack of light rail support as of late.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 7:46 a.m.

My thoughts on your comment...

Seems to me your example is yet another PRIME example why the voters aren't all excited and supportive of this crossing project. Too many variables with *dead end* results.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And at graduation, you receive a silver plated decoder ring!

**Bill requires all Idaho kids to read ‘Atlas Shrugged’**

BOISE – Coeur d’Alene Sen. John Goedde, chairman of the Idaho Senate’s Education Committee, introduced legislation Tuesday to require every Idaho high school student to read Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” and pass a test on it to graduate from high school.

When Sen. Bob Nonini, R-Coeur d’Alene, asked Goedde why he chose that particular book, Goedde said to laughter, “That book made my son a Republican.”

Goedde said he doesn’t plan to press forward with the bill, but it was formally introduced in his committee Tuesday on a voice vote. He said he was sending a message to the State Board of Education, because he’s unhappy with its recent move to repeal a rule requiring two online courses to graduate from high school, and with its decision to back off on another planned rule regarding principal evaluations.

“It was a shot over their bow just to let them know that there’s another way to adopt high school graduation requirements,” Goedde said after the meeting. “I don’t intend to schedule a hearing on it.”

The 1957 novel has been embraced by libertarians and the tea party movement, in part for its opposition to “statism” and embrace of capitalism, as Rand expressed her philosophy of “objectivism,” focusing on “the morality of rational self-interest.” In recent years, the novel has been touted by conservative commentators including Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

Read more @

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

madore makes good on his campaign promise to "open the floodgates" for jobs. He hired a personal assistant! Now he won't have to deal too much with county staff that may not think exactly like he does.

mrd — February 7, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Bike Portland has recently become an opponent of the CRC project. It seems Portland wants to cut the bike & pedestrian path for now, so as to reduce their cost and bring the project in under budget. Everything is secondary to LRT.


I read all opinions on this topic - pro or con. What the pro side relies on are false promises of prosperity and scare tactics about earthquakes. The con side also applies a scare tactic (we don't want the crime - false, in that our own criminals will resist that influx). But we tend to support our side with solid reasoning.

roger — February 7, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Clark County will live to regret the decision to allow Madore's personal "Girl Friday" into official county business.

I hope she has good personal liability insurance because, should she do something that is proven to be harmful, unethical, violates confidentiality, she will need that and her own lawyer.

I can hardly believe the other two commissioners actually eased up on the tight restrictions imposed by the county attorneys so quickly and informally.

I worked for a state agency that was rife with public volunteers (possibly buying their ticket to heaven or heavenly crown jewels, I am not sure) who were always causing a great deal of problems by nosing into areas that were of no concern to them. We were always hyper vigilant to preserve the confidentiality of the families we served.

What a mess Clark County has created. If I were an administrator and had other options, I'd run far away before the shite hits the fan. . .

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and goldie: Yesterday I posted a proclamation the Clackamas County Commission is drafting in opposition of the CRC. No one commented on it, but I think this is a true set back.

My biggest frustration is this: I wish folks were wide awake when the CRC planning was in its infancy. So many of the questions and concerns being discussed today were discussed in those cavernous and empty initial public meeting rooms.

Almost 10 years into it and all that money under the bridge (pun intended), it kind of makes me sick to think that is was wasted because people were late to the party and are just NOW gearing up for a fight that should have happened years ago (when it might have been easier to turn the juggernaut around).

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I think the waterfront project is a good thing for Vancouver. I wish I could afford one of the condos proposed. Maybe the senior housing will be affordable. :)

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — February 7, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.

Now my thoughts on Madore.

First, how do we know she can be trusted? She hasn't and won't be vetted by the County. That means no background check and no security check. Do you want her in your files?

Secondly, would your boss let you hire someone to do your work while you are off doing something else? Seems unlikely to me.

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal's never too late till the design is approved and construction begins. When the planning was in its wasn't broadcast very loudly after prior ballot measures were voted down by the people. Let's just say for the entire county, the promoters kept low key. Not much was said. You probably remember my outright anger I posted in my early times here on the C. I came into it a bit late...said what I said...sent the letters and emails and made the phone calls...and now....

People are just opening their eyes and are saying the very same thing I've said from the get go. David Madore came into it much later than I, but he's been able to afford hiring Ms. Couch to do some investigating. Now it's been revealed that the final design hasn't been approved by the one, the only...the US Coast Guard. Funny how that wasn't mentioned to the public via the news till recent months. Funny how nothing was mentioned about the height issues Thompson Metalfab would be facing with their heavy loads...till AFTER the bridge lift last year with that big blue rigging they moved. And Funny how very little has been mentioned regarding the original figures of traffic flow over the bridge were outdated and way off, but the CRC still clung to those as though they were correct when planning for this design.

Yeah, you can still see I'm peeved about the project. I still would like to see a replacement...but not with something that will prove to be a thorn in our side rather an an improvement on city infrastructure.

Regarding the waterfront project...manthou, I'm not sure I would want to live under the flight path of PDX. A relative of mine did for years and whenever I visited, the place would shake any time the military air crafts took off. I also used to live in Rockwood...East Portland...(when it was a nice neighborhood). We too were under the final approach and initial take off route of air traffic to/from PDX. One went down just blocks away from my home back in the 70's.

I'd visit but I wouldn't live there...but that's just me. I enjoy watching air traffic, but it is noisy.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. question for you. Do you honestly think Madore would hire someone who could risk his credibility as commissioner in Clark County...someone who could have the potential of ruining his reputation??? You've got to give him credit for one thing. The guy has excellent business sense. I don't think he'd be *that* careless.

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.

I really don't think Madore is concerned about that. I'm guessing he's got teflon suits.

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Good point on the airport noise that residents on the waterfront endure.

Need to add something you replied to hawk about: Madore takes full responsibility for his own personal assistant. This is the guy who hired Debbie Peterson and Josephine Wentzel, mind you, in the past.

Since then, to his credit, he has distanced himself from a direct association with them.

Mind you: Both Peterson and Wentzel enjoy free speech rights like you and I and they are welcome to say what they wish. Working for a public figure requires a certain diplomacy that they (and I, to be honest) lack. :)

We'll see about Girl Friday. She will be working under a microscope and people and the press will be watching her every move for slip ups.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Feinstein is clearing the room after several protests. Folks on both sides of the aisle have some serious questions. This promises to be a fascinating hearing.

**John Brennan Confirmation Hearing: Obama CIA Director Pick Faces Senate Intelligence Committee**

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Is aging rapidly becoming a *factor* with Bill?

**Bill O'Reilly Wonders Why NBC Hasn't Covered Drones When NBC Broke The Story (VIDEO)**

Bill O'Reilly sat down with Fox News' designated liberal host Bob Beckel on Wednesday night and claimed that NBC News has not been covering the controversy over President Obama's drones policy in wake of the Justice Department memo that was recently obtained (see update below).

"Heard anything on NBC about the drones?" O'Reilly asked Beckel Wednesday night. Beckel said he had not. O'Reilly continued, "You haven't heard anything over there about this, neither have I, neither has my staff." The Fox News host then charged that NBC News has not discussed the White House drone policy because the network is "protecting the president."

Unfortunately for O'Reilly (and his staff), NBC News' Michael Isikoff obtained a copy of the memo discussing the legality of Obama's drones policy and broke the story exclusively for the network. The memo was a major get for Isikoff and the network, and has been a major topic of reporting and discussion on both NBC News and MSNBC since Monday night.

The story led NBC News' website Monday night and into Tuesday. MSNBC's Rachel Maddow hosted Isikoff on her show Monday night to discuss his major scoop. NBC's "Nightly News" also reported a story on the drones memo Tuesday night.

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.

Good point although Petersen and Wentzel might have also distanced themselves from him for their own reasons as well. Like you say though, anybody working as a right hand (wo)man for Commissioner Madore will be put under the microscope as will Madore. Comes with the territory, especially when there's a certain crowd who's all pent up in building the current crossing design, fully equipped with light rail. Oh you bet ya, they'll be watching *verrrrrry* closely. If he even sneezes in a direction they don't like, they'll be looking for anything and everything to use against him.

I know I wouldn't want to be in his shoes!

goldenoldie — February 7, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, I thought Josephine would follow Madore as his assistant in that position not an active member and part of the local Republican Party like the one he chose.

holycrapola — February 7, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.

Honestly, she's not smart enough. She can do whatever David tells her to do but from what I've seen and through my talks with her, she needs constant "supervision".

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Obamacare Medicare Changes Saved Almost $6 Billion On Drugs: Report**

Obamacare Medicare Changes Saved Almost $6 Billion On Drugs: Report
The report from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services also includes updated information about Medicare premiums, beneficiaries' use of the program's preventive medicine coverage, and other matters.

Giving older people cheaper medicines was supposed to help win their support for health care reform. Unfortunately for Obama, that hasn't really worked out. An October poll conducted by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation revealed 39 percent of voters aged 65 or older thought they'd be worse off under the health care reform law and just 25 percent thought they'd be better off.

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.,

Manthou - those early neighborhood meetings weren't widely advertised. Nor was the scope of the project. It looks like the CRC limited who they were actively involving to neighborhood associations directly affected on both sides of the river. Portland side brought lawsuits, Vancouver side (I gather) accepted that this project would support downtown redevelopment efforts and lead to increased property values. By the time word was getting out to the rest of us, people were told sorry - done deal.

roger — February 7, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, Hawkeye, Goldie,

There will definitely be some head butting over this personal assistant business. She may have a restricted access to info and services, but the interpretation they (Madore and Wilson) will probably apply is that if something is available to him, then it should be to her too. Hopefully Wilson is better with her people skills than Wetzel and Peterson are. Wetzel in particular is an idiot - when she said Madore was more qualified for office as a businessman that Boldt as a one-time truck driver - and then refused to retract when pointed out to her - that lost any chance of my vote for Madore.

roger — February 7, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 7, 2013 at 2:16 p.m

I have no idea who the person Madore is hiring is.

Anna, was his campaign manager and was an official in the Republican party for Clark County. She was in on the "downgrading" of Boldt. Davy told her he's have a job for her after the election. Wasn't that nice?

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here ya go HC, a little en**light**ening reading

hawkeye — February 7, 2013 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone else following the FB brouhaha over the Madore request to add an agenda item to next week's meeting to discuss writing a declaration against the CRC (following Clackamas County's lead)?

Bill Barron will be exhausted trying to keep Madore operating within the confines of state law.

Lou B called wunderkind attorney Bruce Johnson in Seattle for an opinion whether open government act had been violated, bypassing county attorneys. Maybe he was hoping for a fresh meat story to wake them all up. It is only a matter of time, Mr. B, only a matter of time. Madore will trip up big time.

I tell you, Clark County could reduce the budget woes by selling VIP seat tickets to the weekly meetings. I, for one, would pay for a first row seat and backstage access to this clown circus.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A reminder: Given all the crazy legislation being proposed in Olympia, please remember that there is now a very easy way to sign up and express your opinion of each potential law. So much easier than emailing all the committee members and your own legislators.

I have used it over the past two days and find it very easy and convenient.

Now, if they really pay attention to our opinion, it might be good.....

Directions are on the WA State Legislature homepage.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the tip manthou, I just signed up.

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Once an educator, always an educator. Even in early retirement, I am very worried about Liz Pike's bill to allow teachers to be armed in our public schools.

I have worked with some real hotheads who should never be in a classroom. They are rare, but exist. I can see them jumping to the head of the line for this duty (while continuing to shirk lunchroom, recess, and bus duty).

I saw Michelle Rhee interviewed by Piers Morgan last week (as an aside, did you know she married Mayor Kevin Johnson of Sacramento, former NBA star?). She headed the DC Schools for a time and has some very good ideas of putting kids first in education. She said, guns do not belong in our schools. So many others agree.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I live in Lizzie Pike's city. The ONLY reason she got the vote is that the DEms had a very weak unknown running against her. Trust me, she is not very much liked at home. Ran for mayor and garnered very few votes, tried a few other political positions via local GOP and got ignored, but sadly, ended up in Olympia. Her campaign website was 100% talking points a la tea party and she kept going on about her plan to jumpstart the local economy. Forgot to mention even one point of this super stellar plan (probably had none). And she made the for me fatal mistake of having grammatical and punctuation errors sprinkled throughout. No good. She now latched on to armed teachers as she has zero to offer otherwise.

As to DM: I said it before and I will say it again. He reminds me of a little boy in a candy store. He will completely overstep the boundaries shortly as he seems unwilling to stay within bounds. His way or the highway. He bought the position, people voted for him because of his anti-bridge stance; and that's about it. He has so far contributed nothing but silliness. What makes him so special that he needs an assistant while no other commissioner does? What's wrong with that man?

oooh, local politics tirade. Love it.

luvithere — February 7, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I appreciate the background on Liz Pike. I had been scratching my head over her, but she and Don Benton seem to be a scary twosome.

I think Gov Inslee will be doing a lot of vetoing this session if any of these lame-brained bills make it to his desk.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy C. In all the talks about what we can do in Vancouver to make it attractive and modernize it,how to lure people here, we have not touched upon the outdoors attractions. Look where we live! can't get much better. Portland is known as the outdoor mecca, why not us? Are we not right here also?

Anybody been to Riverwalk in San Antonio? I was there years ago and could not believe that place. Unbelievable. The planning - a mix of public and private with stellar results. All it took was a vision. (I heard they are having problems there, so I can't speak to the state of affairs currently).

One other thing that I always find very appealing and that always attracts folks: outdoor seating, roads closed to traffic. That's standard in Europe these days and always a hit. Why can't we do something like it? And I am not talking abotu the two small tables squeezed on a sidewalk in front of a little restaurant. Think big; close off during weekend evenings for starters, let people sit outside. We got a few months of great weather, use it to your advantage. What would it really cost?

luvithere — February 7, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I followed the commish thing. Looks like ol' Lou got Mike to do a left-handed apology of sorts. Is he the one who doesn't live here anymore??

I think that Lou, as a reporter, could see where some people were getting real upset about procedures with the council. (must follow Roberts rules of order, ya know.) He did the right thing and consulted a reputable source.

A couple of weeks ago I asked if this could be done in our county. I hope it works. It looks as if Clakamas County has stop construction. At least temporarily.

You all know I don't do facts or sources very often. That's because they can be looked up real easily with the web and whatnot. But this time I did look them up and will show them to you.

Population of Tri-Mets taxing area. Total is 1,639,000. That's 3 counties. Over here the population of C-Tran taxing area is 425,000. That's 1 county. My question is to all those who are for this monstrosity. Now we all know that Tri-Met is running in the deep red. How in HELL do you intend to get this paid for??? This is from the census count of 2010. Now I know we have grown some in the last 2 years but nowhere near enough to warrant us to go whole hog in this pipe dream.

I really am beginning to hate these holier than thou troglodytes who think their version of Utopia should fit everyone else. Because every time they start to think this way my ass hurts. Here's one more fact. If you think businesses over here, who don't have access to C-Tran, want to pay for Loo-Rail you are sorely mistaken. They would be taxed like Tri-Met does over there in Oreegone. They don't want it either.

JohnCasey — February 7, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, I wish the Bears were here...

It's hard to compete with Portland.

It's why we need something unique to the area. Combine the glitz & glamour of Vegas with beautiful retirement communities, a couple of golf courses and the Follies Bergere. A sports facility with a retractable roof and easy rider rifle racks attached to every seat.

Pot is legal here. It makes us unique. Center a few draws around that. Let historians deem us the pot pioneering state of the 21st century. A pioneer in green energy.

luvit- *One other thing that I always find very appealing and that always attracts folks: outdoor seating, roads closed to traffic. That's standard in Europe these days and always a hit.*

Yes! One of many things I miss. Even many of the smaller villages in Germany have great outdoor bistro's, seating and such. And Holland in the spring...shutting off streets and seating hundreds linking cafes and businesses. Makes for great night time socializing and helps the taxi services out.

All these improvements sound great, but...

...we couldn't even bring a minor league baseball team here.

nailingit — February 7, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, that's the ticket. Vancouver as a tourist mecca. Don't let the 6 month rainy season put a damper on these dreams, it could happen. Ignore the fact hundreds of vacant hotel rooms just across the river burned to the ground, probably not to be replaced. How's the Vancouver Hilton doing? The Vanc convention center?

Bring on those part-time, minimun wage jobs in the service and retail sectors to cater to these tourists. That'll help.

With the coast, the gorge, and Mt Hood nearby, Vantucky will attract thousands. After all, we have Ester Short Park and Ft Vancouver. With Mt St Helens' facilities on life support, maybe Vantucky can get some visitors when it shuts down-again.

Build it and they will come? Hardly.

mrd — February 7, 2013 at 9:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And how much will a few outdoor table sand chairs cost? Close road, have all the tables - at least during our most spectacular summer months - get those brewskis flowing. You got to start somewhere: maybe even with the locals. Get them out of their house. There's no local pride in anything as far as I can see. Why?

Or we can sit back and continue to whine and throw up road blocks. yea, we don't have much but we are close to nature. If they stay in PDX, why not stay here?

luvithere — February 7, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 8:10: I wish we had that baseball team, too. Boldt should have voted with Stuart on that. His "no" vote did not save his political career.

I was also thinking about other countries in response to luvithere's longing for outdoor life in Vancouver, too. Oslo comes to mind for me. There is a heavy toll on autos that want to enter in the heart of the city. Therefore, it is one of the most pedestrian-friendly burghs I have ever enjoyed. No vehicles to be found, or very few. The streets and sidewalk cafes are owned by folks on foot.

Didn't Vancouver have a consultant who gave exterior-friendly suggestions to downtown businesses? What happened there?

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Once this 420 thingy is normalized, a new market "niche" will develop and taking some of the suggestions of how they do it in Europe with the street cafes, we can have a mighty tourist attraction 12 months out of the year."

state regulation--
"Smoking prohibited within twenty-five feet of public places or places of employment -- Application to modify presumptively reasonable minimum distance."

Seems a street cafe would be a public place. Getting the state legislature to change the regulation to allow public pot smoking would be a real feat. Smoking pot in front of the children? No way.

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John Laird was spot on quoting this nut last Sunday. Pat represents conservative intellect to a Tea and has a tremendous right wing following.

This guy has power. Rush has power. O'Reilly has power.

Until the right turns them off or death makes it's contribution, these guys have power ONLY because people watch and listen to them.

**North Dakota Personhood Measure Passes State Senate**

North Dakota has only one abortion clinic and has been rated the worst state in the country for women, but the State Senate passed two bills on Thursday will make it even more difficult for women in the state to access abortion care.

North Dakota lawmakers passed a Personhood Constitutional Amendment initiative on Thursday that would amend the state's constitution to give legal rights and protections to human embryos. If the ballot initiative passes the House, North Dakota voters will decide on it during the 2014 elections.

"We are intending that it be a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, since Scalia said that the Supreme Court is waiting for states to raise a case," state Sen. Margaret Sitte (R), the sponsor of the personhood initiative, told HuffPost.

The Senate also passed a bill on Thursday that could shut down the North Dakota's one abortion clinic, the Red River Women’s Clinic in Fargo, by requiring abortion doctors to have admitting privileges at a local hospital. A similar law in Mississippi is currently threatening to close the only clinic in that state because the hospitals near the Jackson clinic are all refusing the applications of doctors who perform abortions.

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hc-not sure who is confused here. I was addressing your statement which I thought was speaking of lighting up in a cafe style street scene, not in private clubs. Actually, I have no problem with either way, I voted to legalize pot.

My comment sbout having a tough time getting the state to change the laws on smoking in public to accomodate smoking pot in a street cafe would be a longshot. The "in front of the kids" thing was what I supposed would be the legislature's response-not mine. The responsible use of booze or pot in front of kids is something I don't really have a problem with.

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Clackamas County Anti-CRC resolution fails. This from Oregonlive:

[link text][1]


Wonder how it will fare next week in Clark County?

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 8:52 a.m

I don't know who they are trying to fool with all these resolutions. They aren't going to affect any outcome or persuade anybody to change their minds. This is not in the hands of the Cities or Counties. It's all the State and Feds. If they say it's going to happen, it's going to happen and an up or down vote in little podunk Vancouver isn't going to change a thing.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*According to a report issued Thursday by the Obama administration, health care reform has saved 6.1 million people more than $5.7 billion.*

And were trusting this information to be accurate..Because it came from the white house, the same white house that said the bengazie attack was because some guy in california caused a riot in Lybia....Hum.I smell a rat here... .. And the Huff post has the scoop..More like the Poop... . I would rather it been FAUX NEWS that had the scoop. Still the most trusted news outlet......

vanwadreamer — February 8, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The responsible use of booze or pot in front of kids is something I don't really have a problem with.

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.

I don't know if you smoke or not, but I get where you are coming from. I think one factor of responsible marijuana use is never smoke in front of kids, as second hand smoke, etc.

Edibles, vaporizers, spray, pills etc. as delivery systems are the future imo, and could be ingested responsibly regardless of environment, to include ingesting marijuana minus the psychoactive THC aspect.

It's a plant for Christ's sake. I memorized Genesis 1:29 as a young buck and would cite it as opposition to conservative thought at the time. :)


Oh what the hell. I'll start of today with a reading from scripture...Genesis 1:29

*And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.*

And for our next lesson, turn to Matthew 25:31-46, and correlate it to who you have voted for in the last 5 years, and the political party's platform which you endorse...;)

We have needed church/state separation of powers in government, but as a people, and amongst ourselves, it's a needed conversation to have.

Hypocrisy and skewed ideology is akin to societal cancer. We should take a reality scalpel and peel away the layers for all to see.

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 8, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.

But then again, it was YOUR White House that said we are going into Iran because of WMDs.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My bad, Iraq

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I will second your last statement.. Our Local Yocals don't have a clue.... The only way it will stop is if the Height issue's are corrected or Funding at the Federal level isn't there....The states know how important the Bridge is and they won't stop it from being built.... On top of that it will bring the needed change south htrough Portland that is needed...Huge Infrastructure impact that will bring good paying jobs for years to come.

vanwadreamer — February 8, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- Hope links help. Please state your disagreements with this government report and support your claims. Just saying "rat", and citing "bengazie" and " Lybia" doesn't quite cut the mustard. :)

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk and vanwa: I think these impotent local resolutions and declarations are PR posturing pure and simple: these elected officials want to show their base that they are doing what they promised to do (even though it is futile).

We the people need to learn how to separate the noise from the signal, as Nate Silver advises.

Who has the power to make this project crumble? It is decidedly not David Madore or any other local politician.

But hey, they can exercise their First Amendment rights same as me.

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't smoke and neither does anyone I know, so I didn't think about second-hand smoke. But you're right-not in front of the kids.

BTW, I've never heard of those other delivery systems you mentioned. It's been 35 years since I smoked pot, but, hmm, ya never know......

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.

The term "Smoke and Mirrors" comes to mind.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't give rat's if you smoke "herb" or not, not my problem, not my thing to do, just don't try and drag the Bible and God's word out of context to try and make it ok. I listed from 4 Bible versions. All say the same, "herb/s" is for eating, not smoking.

God gave Adam and Eve seed-yielding plants and fruit trees for food. The herbs are for eating, not smoking.

Also consider..(Eph 5:18) is that we are not to become intoxicated with anything that would deprive us of self-control and the ability to be filled with (controlled by) the Spirit. Getting high is wrong for the same reason getting drunk is wrong.

And God said, Behold, I haue giuen you euery herbe bearing seede, which is vpon the face of all the earth, and euery tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yeelding seed, to you it shall be for meat:
- King James Version (1611)

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:
- American Standard Version (1901)

Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
- New American Standard Version (1995)

And God said, See, I have given you every plant producing seed, on the face of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit producing seed: they will be for your food:
- Basic English Bible

And God said: 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed--to you it shall be for food;
- Jewish Publication Society Bible

ELISI — February 8, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's all the State and Feds. If they say it's going to happen, it's going to happen and an up or down vote in little podunk Vancouver isn't going to change a thing.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.

Exactly! DM knows this. It's more than possible he's using this anti-LRC/CRC/WhateverC as nothing more than a platform to sell snake oil to the gullible and expand his base to seek higher office in the future. A position to further a religious conservative agenda on a more targeted social scale, as his RW religious comrades have been doing the last 5 years across this country.

He might not give a damn if Light Rail is built or not.

He could channel all this negative energy from losing/disappointment and once again appeal to this faux libertarian/conservative/low info/need a hero movement he's tapping into.

I'm sure the conservative faction of this anti-light rail club will see themselves as victims and pawns in a progressive scheme to divide America and send us further into debt and oblivion! . AHHHH!

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One comment on the improvement to Vancouver to attract more business...

Yes, we might get a few ideas from San Antonio with regards to Riverwalk, but we're not San Antonio. We're Vancouver...the city which modern civilization began in the Pacific Northwest. Do we really need to turn it into a conglomerate of condos and kitschy boutiques and beer gardens? Why not think a bit bigger in the manner of what our history has included and add to the historic aspect of our city...our county. We have much more than just the fort and historic buildings. We have a legacy in our city...our county.

We've been listed on the National Arbor Day Foundation's prestigious "Tree City, USA" list countless times. We have beautiful mountains and valleys and rivers and lakes...exactly what has attracted so many to the Pacific Northwest. Celebrations of history are part of our annual attraction....

So why not add something different to our city which complements all that we have???

Why not include the attraction of a living, functioning and self-sustaining Bio-dome type City Center complete with the Arts, Science and nature, restaurants/bistros, fun places to work and shop and community centers with entertainment venues included?

Could you imagine the sound effects in such a facility with regards to a classical concert??? The bio-dome would include a botanic garden, waterways, eateries, festive gatherings...anything you could imagine...and it could be regulated as a Safe Haven for all who enter.

Talk about a fantastic experience...focusing on the number one asset we have in our rainy climate...Greenspace.

It's a thought. Another soon to follow.

goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drinking from a container and having psychoactive smoke Drifting around are two different animals. Exposing an individual to *anything* that individual would not care to be exposed to aint cool, man.

That being written: There's a bar up North what allows cannabis smoking. The proprietor fought the (cigarette) smaking ban and won. There's a section of his place where smokers can light up. The employees in that section have volunteered. Today, a person can spark up a joint in that same section.

As far as the kiddies go: Education is key here. They have been lied to for so long honest education almost smacks of "crying wolf." Those lies have cost us, and them. Cannabis won't kill you. Cannabis won't drive one to psychopathic behavior. But, like most things, there's a time and place - moderation in everything, eh?

I've always been honest with my children (and grands) about cannabis. I've three daughters whom don't indulge. They simply don't care to. I've a son that smokes a bit on rare occasions. I've a grandson who knows his grandpa grows his own medicine. His mother told him the plants were tomatoes. I took her aside and asked if I could tell him the truth, and educate him. She immediately agreed. Heh, I'm thinking she was relieved, actually.

Most kids will make the right decisions when they know the facts. Even some adults will, too.

As they're chattering about over on the FB side, we are witnessing history (tautology alert!). We really, really need to get this right. Both Colorado and Washington are under a microscope - with the world watching.

Drift — February 8, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There was mention of a pedestrian mall by holycrapola. So why not design and build a an open-air (glass-covered pedestrian mall...not necessarily along the waterfront but maybe in a zone where a concentration of unoccupied facilities exist...much like along West Fourth Plain??? Encourage local business to set up markets...even community-involvement indoor gardens capable of providing vegetables for needy people in the local area.

I'm not talking a little rinky-dink facility. I'm thinking bigger...the size of an airport hangar or bigger...possibly 2 or 3 story.

Honestly, I believe Lloyd Center Mall is a wasted space waiting for crime to happen. The only focus there is to watch movies, shop, skate, eat junk food or loiter. No incentive of creativity (except for ice skating) brainer, just shopping facility. Not one facility banks on getting people involved in the community...opening eyes to the world...just to spend, spend, spend.

Our community needs to bring back that "neighborly" attitude, not an attitude of "close up shop and fughettabout the neighbors." How can we do it if all the venues we have include supporting big box stores??? It doesn't help that the Air Museum was shut down. Those folks have the right idea at Pearson. Too bad FV didn't. Bank on our history...don't throw it away.

goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, I've never heard of those other delivery systems you mentioned. It's been 35 years since I smoked pot, but, hmm, ya never know......

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 10:29 a.m.

By my calculations that should put us at..........1977-78'!! [calculations subject to impairment]

That's a long time dude! Carter and 65 cent gas! Better late than never!

Thought you might enjoy links. I like looking at events in time and where I was in life.

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 8:52 a.m.

My honest opinion...they're all going about it the wrong way with the attempt to stop the project altogether. The bridges need to be replaced...eventually. We don't need light rail to improve traffic and freight mobility, the number one focus of the project in the first place.

These guys need to focus on getting a crossing built which will provide the two most important functions...traffic and freight mobility. It's already been proven that not everybody will choose light rail as a method of transportation and many are switching to more fuel-efficient vehicles. The trend is...independence. Not just with the US fuel consumption but with choice of transportation. In my's just a certain group who thinks a bridge on the east side will reduce traffic on the I-5 corridor. It makes no sense. It's like telling someone with a head cold to grow a second nose so they can breathe better.

Honestly...if worst came to worst (never understood the redundancy of that saying but oh well), people would choose to move closer to their jobs or find work elsewhere to avoid the crossing...and they wouldn't ride MAX to get to their destinations. If tolls are implemented on one bridge...they'll go to the other, causing a gridlock on the east side. It just makes no sense to build the current design.

goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Will someone remind me why a tunnel isn't an option? Is it the cost?

Drift — February 8, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Eating cannabis was one of the afore mentioned alternatives to smoking ;^)

Drift — February 8, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyCrat- Just as a side note, it's good to have you back! You stimulate discussion in this sometimes dark and dank basement. We only agree maybe 50% of the time, but what's life without sharing good spirited free thought?


Oslo comes to mind for me. There is a heavy toll on autos that want to enter in the heart of the city.

manthou — February 7, 2013 at 9:27 p.m.

If you are like me with a foreign language, a heavy toll on the brain as well! It took a couple of times driving into the heart of Amsterdam to realize I was in a sense on a different planet and lacked capabilities to travel via car. Too many o's! Folks here gripe about turnarounds...they haven't seen anything!!

Bikes and walking are by and far are the most popular form of inner city commute. Adds to a great driving experience figuring out OOOO road signs on the fly! 8>O

Nederlanders have car agencies that will meet you in or outside of the big cities, keep your car and drive you into town to your place of stay, (for a nominal fee of course) then deliver your car when you're ready to leave. One of the many things I liked about the Dam was that you could walk to anyplace in town within 30 minutes.


It was a home away from home, while away from home. The arts, the food, the drink, the music, the people, the atmosphere...

Hey...considering new pot laws, why not turn Vancouver into a Lil' Amsterdam?!

Maybe we should begin construction on Columbia River canals that flow through the city of Vancouver to Portland. Gondola's and miniature submarines from Lil' Amsterdam to P' town!

And purely for the sake of authenticity, we should reconsider existing laws regarding hallucinogenic mushrooms and prostitution. :)

Seriously. Amsterdam's Cannabis Cup is world renowned, and the Medical Cannabis Cup seems to have it's place in America.

The Vancouver Freedom Cup!

Let's bring Europe and it citizen's over here. International draw with minimal investment.

Tiny bomb rocks..

I'm out

nailingit — February 8, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

an interstate highway has a max amount of slope allowed. It's about 5 or 6%. because it has to be below the river bottom, that adds another 50-60 feet to the depth of the tunnel, or something like that. That, coupled with the slope on I-5 heading toward the river would put the entrance a long way north of the river. Access to the tunnel would be very limited for a considerable distance to the north of the river because the roadway would be sunken very deep.

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 1:11 p.m.

But you could do it for thru traffic. It's a very good idea but they won't do anything like that because they have already discarded it. No sense in going backwards, right?

Vancouver needs to create more greenspaces in the city. Parks with shelters and FREE WiFi. In fact, they should make the whole downtown area free WiFi.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oooohhhhh....Goosebumps all over!!! I love it when the Basement Crowd comes together and brainstorms ideas to improve our community!!! Oh, if only the powers that be would take note as to what we're saying! We have pride in our community...but we want it to be a community to be proud all means!!!

Clark County in itself has many family-oriented venues such as the Chelatchie Prairie Rail Line, Clark County Fair, Fort Vancouver Days, Fourth of July Celebrations, Nature Walks...even more to mention, but I think you get the idea. These are good, but we want better than good. Something for everyone. I'm thinking the ideas shared here...ideas of favorite visiting places by each and every one of us could be combined to make our own unique community...something that puts us over the top when it comes to comparison with Portland or even Seattle...and at a smaller scale than either city and at a budget our community could afford.

Maybe someone with a hankerin' to spend big bucks...someone who wants to make a mark on our community in a positive way...will take us up on our ideas and begin the process.

goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Aw crud...bubble just burst. In the article, *Lawmakers tell Inslee to stay the course on CRC*, "Cleveland, Moeller and Wylie said they support a CRC with light rail because its operation costs are less than buses, because gas prices are on the rise, and because the Vancouver area is expected to grow by more than 100,000 people by 2025."

**Holy cow, Batman! I smell a rat in this agenda!!!**

According to the US Government Census Bureau (, Vancouver saw a 1.8% increase in population between 2010 and 2011. Vancouver's population in 2000 was 143,560. In 2011, it was 164,759...a 12% increase from the year 2000. So how in the heck are they getting a figure of 100,000 more people in Vancouver by 2025???

Another balloon figure based on pipe dreams??? This my without a number one complaint on the crossing project.


goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I am a big supporter of making sure our government and legislators make decisions based on evidence-based research, not emotion.

Too many knee-jerk laws are passed that wind up being very problematic.

I will email Mr. Moeller to see if he can shed some light on the 100,000 more people he expects. That would be good news to me, if it is true.

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK: The Office of Financial Management has a document that shows Clark County population in 2025 projected at about 622,000.

That is more than 100,000 than 2012.

Check it out on page 13:

[link text][1]


manthou — February 8, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, this document I posted above shows a low, medium and high projection. The one I quoted was the high projection. Check out pages 14 and 15 for the full range.

How old will we be in 2025, goldie? I hope I am still crabby and kicking. :)

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


different views with numbers and areas "because the Vancouver area is expected to grow" the key being Vancouver AREA, which would include Camas, Washougal, Battleground, LaCenter etc. Let's have a party!!

soapbox4u — February 8, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's have a party!!

soapbox4u — February 8, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.

Where and when?

Hey, if Dave gets the parking fees removed from the parks, we could use Lewisville park for free.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

not to argue, but 205 is the "bypass". I-5 isn't intended to be so, therefore the designation of I-5. A three digit designation is a by-pass interstate. An even digit-the first one- is a bypass, an odd number is a spur. I don't think by the current designation systems in place an interstate highway can be a by-pass and a thru route.

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u: Yes! I keep thinking all those fantastic same gender couples from Portlandia will come over to Clark County so that they can grow a family legally. The more diverse Clark County becomes, the more reasoned the legislators (I hope).

Not to mention those who want to consume weed legally. They , are heading our way as well.

Clark County will be the new hip, inclusive, tolerant place to live.

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — February 8, 2013 at 8:17 p.m

Are you referring to the tunnel? It wouldn't be a by-pass. Just a thru-way. It would be from around 39th on our side to Delta park on the South side. The rest of the freeway would still be there but it would be used to get to Jantzen Beach, Marine Drive, SR14, Mill Plain and Fourth Plain. The tunnel would go from the center of the freeway, three lanes in both directions and at the junctions the rest of the freeway would go around the opening. They do the same thing in Seattle, going thru the city but it's on the surface but in the middle.

hawkeye — February 8, 2013 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — February 8, 2013 at 10:41 a.m
Hey Gold, a late response here.
Don't knock San Antonio if you have never seen it. It does not give impression of kitsch and glitzy condos. Somehow they managed it. Their beer gardens are great. But again, has been a few years since I saw it. H

owever, my point with that example is: they had zero and they thought big. They built partnerships between public and private. And that's something we should also think about. At least we have a natural water front, they had to construct something. We have views built in - San Antonio does not. So actually we might be ahead of them. We have a solid base to work from. What we don't have is leadership that can think. They are stuck in the past. I don't think DM has anything new to offer in that respect either.

Otherwise, I think we all had some pretty decent ideas here. I am not sure we can position ourselves as the new hip, same-sex, weed smoking mecca though. I think that would stop a number of people. LOL - I don't care myself but I don't see Vancouver as the new tolerant Amsterdam any time soon. Emphasis on tolerance.

Your 11:11 a.m comment on bridge was spot on. That's it in a nutshell.

luvithere — February 9, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Nail and Roger, as I got up way too early for a Saturday, I am going to the German bakery now. have not been there in months. Urge for broetchen and pretzel.

luvithere — February 9, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Press Talk does it again.

Now that you have helped the state save some chump change by shaming the politicians who have the audacity to ask for dry cleaning reimbursement, how about moving on to something that may yield greater savings and save some disabled kids from an archaic education system?

When other states are closing their residential schools for the sensory impaired, why is Washington holding onto this highly-restrictive method of providing education? The taxpayers are footing the expensive bill to perpetuate a system that got its start in the late 1800s. What does current best practices research tell us about the impact of pulling children from their families, their home communities and local schools, denying them daily access to non-disabled peers? How much does it cost the state to fly or bus these students home every weekend and on holidays? What is the staff to student ratio? What is the history of abuse allegations and employee discipline at the schools?

This is a sacred cow and legislators do not want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Given our dwindling resources, the state should only be paying for those costs that are proven to work.

You're on a roll, Lou. Think big. Today: dry cleaning. Tomorrow: the world. Or at least something that will actually make a dent in the deficit and save some kids from an antiquated and restrictive educational system :)

manthou — February 9, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Clark County will be the new hip, inclusive, tolerant place to live.*

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 9:35 p.m

It could very well be. Not to harp about Amsterdam, but it's known as the Land of Tolerance.

Maybe the powers that be will put together a marketing ad targeted at pot smokers and gays! Mayor 2 Term Tim?

That would initiate a few Face Book comments!

*I am not sure we can position ourselves as the new hip, same-sex, weed smoking mecca though.*

luvithere — February 9, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

I figure as long as these ideas are a pipe dream, why not put something in the pipe?:)

A German breakfast sounds great!

nailingit — February 9, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I welcome diversity and Clark County has a history of being woefully vanilla. One can hope that these new laws will attract some new residents who will jump in and offer their perspective and talents to make our cities and county even better!

Bill Clinton told an interesting story that was data-based at the Democratic caucus yesterday. He described a study that showed that a roomful of average IQ folks with diverse backgrounds and world views will be better decision-makers than one genius, working alone.

This story also is an example of how hobbled we are in making decisions when we close our eyes and ears to diverse points of views and ideas.

manthou — February 9, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye and mrd,

Tunneling was rejected, with cost and the depth needed given as reasons. Several options were presented that had different ideas that would have been cheaper to build - relocating the swing span on the railroad bridge, building a span for trucking from Port of Vancouver over the west end of Hayden Island to Portland, and building a separate span for Hayden Island access on the Portland side. I think there were 8 options looked at - some shot down for what looked like good reasons, and some where the logic applied wasn't as convincing. As for the numbering system, one of the best proposals made (in my mind, anyhow) was to redesignate the current I205 as I5, and the reverse. There's a lot more room to add lanes on the I205 corridor - which is what's needed to alleviate traffic backups. And this could have the added benefit of furthering the expansion to the east side - something happening on both sides anyhow. How to get another bypass down the west side would need to be worked with Hillsboro and Beaverton - their future also calls for this solution. But our biggest problem is getting our own local officials and state legislators to quit the "Portland won't allow new bridges" sob story - this fight needs to be made between Olympia and Salem, and escalated to the DC level. The only way to clear up the traffic congestion without having more bridges is to severely limit all future housing development here - something I suspect the construction industry would fight tooth and nail. Increasing use of public transportation, whether light rail, bus or other, just won't have the capability of moving enough people without these extra bridges.

roger — February 9, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, got there at 8.30. Barely any pretzels and Laugenweck left, but I took them all! Delicious!!!!! Taste of home.

manthou: evidence based.. I like your language.

As to marketing as pot capital. I am all for diversity and diverse ideas. It's time to get us out of the boondocks for sure. I just think the resistance would be massive were we to use that as advertising.

But as a Star Trek fan: resistance is futile.

luvithere — February 9, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I went TDY to Fort Sam Houston a few times in the mid-90s, and did the obligatory stroll around Riverwalk. Interesting, but definitely a tourist trap. The steak house at one end had the breaded and deep fried blooming onions - that alone made this a worthwhile trip for me. But for good food and good service - something hard to come by with the crowds there - we went to the County Line on the northwest side of town.

San Antonio's success could largely be tied to 3 things; 1) The large military bases, which brought people, thousands of jobs and federal dollars; 2) A history (the Alamo) which attracts visitors; and 3) Some excellent city planning with highways in and around, and growth along those routes - you can (or could) drive anywhere quite easily.

I haven't been back, but someone I know who went there a couple of years ago said the Riverwalk isn't the same - the neat little places have all been squeezed out, and now it's just high priced restaurants and hotels.

roger — February 9, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I quit watching Star Trek when James T moved on, but I think I agree with this Worf character that claims to be a Klingon.

roger — February 9, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.

I could have sworn The Columbian ran an article or two a few years ago where they interviewed a few gay people who claimed Vancouver has a thriving gay community that was well accepted here in town. Personally speaking, I think we're already ahead of P'Town in this respect. Look at the politicians, and comments in the two newspapers. When Jim Moeller does something, those who get down on him here on The Columbian's site attack his desire to take and spend all our money (my claim), his taking the 2/3 initiatives to court, and similar commentary. Very rarely does anyone mention his sexuality. On the other side, Any time Mayor Sam was in The Oregonian, you could count on several derogatory comments about him and Beau.

roger — February 9, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger/other lovers of classic tunes

I was listening to Aqualung CD (studio ver) and checked out youtube for a couple of my favorite songs. (although entire recording is incredible)

Nobody stretched the imaginative boundaries of rock more than Jethro Tull. Some of the best musicians on the planet. Just thought to share a little. Enjoy!

nailingit — February 9, 2013 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry for the Borg repeat, I f'ed up.

nailingit — February 9, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: A couple of years ago The Advocate, a national publication, listed Vancouver as one of the nation's top 10 most gay-friendly cities.

Well, Jim Moeller never had the salacious allegations attached to him that Sam Adams does. What Sam Adams got in Portland was mostly self-inflicted hubris: past behavior sneaking up on him and raising questions of ethical violations. He would have gotten the same treatment, I suspect, regardlesss of his sexual orientation, don't you think?

For the most part, in my neck of the Vancouver city limits, folks live and let live. It was one of the more pleasant surprises I got after we abandoned Lake Ego ten years ago for here. I love Clark County. I love Vancouver. What you see is what you get here: not a lot of energy expended in impression management.

manthou — February 9, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If I may add my two cents on Jim Moeller.

I wish we all were as well rounded and reasoned as this man. From transportation issues to civil rights to opening himself for dialogue, Moeller's the best. At least from what I have garnered. I may not always agree, but his civility and rationale are much appreciated.

I've thought lately of writing his office and expressing gratitude for representing the 49th. He does a great job and champions liberal progressive values from what I can tell.

It'd be nice if he chimed in the basement once in awhile. I know he's a busy guy and expecting one more form of public commentary might be a bit much.

But any of you on the FB side, feel free to invite him!

nailingit — February 9, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Nails,

Agreed on Sam Adams. Also, he was all set to resign, but then was talked out of it. I think this perturbed a few south of the river. The biggest reaction I noted was having a relationship with someone named Beau Breedlove - Is this dude a gay pornstar or what?

I've said before - I agree with Jim on some of his social issues, and disagree with him on the CRC. But I respect him - He will always come on line and fight the fight - defend his positions. (Jack Burkman is another who does this. David Madore did so until a few started stalking and harassing him.) Too many sit back and refuse to interact with those who elected them, meet only in controlled settings, or make snotty comments like a certain mayor has a habit of doing.

roger — February 9, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Saw Tull at the Philly Spectrum on their Aqualung tour in Spring of '71. Spirit played before them (one of those bands I never knew whether to like or not). They had a neat little intro that got the crowd all fired up - the lights gradually got lower and lower while setting up for Tull - eventually almost dark. You could still see the bodies moving, but the band slipped in and replaced the road crew. No intro - the lights just came on suddenly, and the band started playing at the same time - something from Stand Up, and then they busted loose with Aqualung. The crowd went nuts. (We were easily impressed in those days.)

roger — February 9, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 9, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.

Roger, I was and are still in favor of of a third bridge going from somewhere in Ridgefield, across the big ditch and ending up at Hwy 217 in Beaverton at Hwy 26. It would bypass all of Portland and allow those in Beaverton/Hillsboro to get to I-5 North without having to mess with the whole 26/405 mess at all times of the day. It would also allow trucks to hit Hwy 30 and Hwy 26 without having to go through town. It should be (instead of the I-5 bridge replacement) the next project.

hawkeye — February 9, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(ref. 11:06 a.m.)

It was '77 or '78 I saw the Jethro Tull in concert. Ian Anderson looked like he was made'a rubber. His limbs didn't appear to be jointed. They rolled and flailed, as waves in a tempest.

Perhaps it was the lighting? Or maybe the mescaline?

I've been a fan for years. Ian's stuff, no matter how far flung, has always had a Celtic flavor to it. He's a very talented musician, IMO. I dig both the Celtic lilt and the depth of the man's art.

The original Jethro Tull (BTW) was a cat what lived in England back around the 1700's. He inovated some sort of new seed planting technique. Oh, you already knew that...?

Anyone know where I might aquire a codpiece - cheap? I've a kazoo, and I'm not afraid to use it. A one'a and'a two'a...

Drift — February 9, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: I spent my early career as a theatrical costume designer. You can fashion a funny codpiece (not historically accurate) using a variety of easily obytainable objects that would fit right in with the spirit of a Jethro Tull concert. Just use your good imagination. :D


The NYT and Boston Globe have taken down their paywalls due to the storm and I have had a marvelous Saturday at the beach perusing quality journalism for free. Get on and read while you can.

manthou — February 9, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


the sixties. my generation.

the generation of civil unrest, riots in the streets, viet nam and fighting the 2nd phase of the civil war.

we've seen everything from nixon to carter...peace to a new pearl harbor. *that* war won't end soon.

so much of what was nation-changing happened on our watch and i can't even remember it all.

we put a man on the moon. we overturned E=MC(2). we created a new science fiction using wild electronic devices, then went on to actually build them.

we found treatments to new diseases like AIDS. diseases which we also created.

we were young, aggressive, determined and prepared.

as i look around me now and see what we have become, i feel like i've already died and i'm in a special place in hell. forced to forever suffer the fate of my country.

the best i can pray for is that the post-obama generation will take whatever's left of the country, look to my generation for the inspiration of jack kennedys and martin luther kings, and try to bring Camelot back.

DeeLittle — February 9, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle: Are you blaming our fine President for all the world's woes as you see them?

I have to comment on the Madigan hospital psychiatrist who lost his job. I eagerly await Patty Murray's investigation results.

The suicide rate among our soldiers is the highest it has ever been. It makes sense that PTSD diagnoses are increasing, too. Our soldiers should not suffer so without the best mental health services money can buy.

It sounds like this psychiatrist was putting his patients first: a very difficult task when you are paid by the government (or a government prosecutor). Mental health professionals often have to toe the company line and propaganda at the expense of their professional independent judgement: do what costs the least or take a hike.

Sounds like Madigan gave this doctor his walking papers because he was not a good little soldier for their bottom line. The story is much bigger, however, and will uncover a widespread abuse of best practices psychiatry and psychology at the expense of our veterans.

manthou — February 10, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Must-see morning clip: Maher tells Trump to “suck it up”**

Donald Trump sued Bill Maher for $5 million after proving that he is not the son of an orangutan **VIDEO**

nailingit — February 10, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Funny. Trump knows this lawsuit has no legs. It is publicity.

Look at our posting times. This is not the first incident of such coincidence.

Cue Twilight Zone theme about now. . .

manthou — February 10, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- You've noted sometimes you have a little more time on your hands as of late. There's a new TV series from Netflix called House of Cards. I've watched four shows & counting and I think (from what I know of your avatar:) you'd really like it.

Kevin Spacey is the best, it's smart and really well written with a slight touch of quirkiness.

It's focusing on the underhanded aspect of politics (is there any other?) and how things get done in Washington.

nailingit — February 10, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I will check out House of Cards, nail. I do love Kevin Spacey.

Trying to cut the XFinity cord and folks have recommended a Roku box, plus Netflix and/or Amazon prime.

manthou — February 10, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 8, 2013 at 6:11 p.m.

You are aware the data you provided in the link text is projections, not actuals, right??? If you want more accurate data in order to support your claim, I'd suggest actual numbers rather than projects in order to get the accurate data. That is the problem with politicians and the planners of the CRC these days. They take numeric projections rather than the actual numbers out on the table. If the federal government census details don't suit your needs, then check this out:

You will see plain as day that Clark County has only grown by about 85,016 Since 2000. If you compare the last three years on record, there's only been an increase of about 3,000 (give or take a dozen or so) per year. Multiply that by 13 (2013-2025) and you'll have a more accurate number. That is, unless there's a major BIG BOX entity like Microsoft, NIKE or INTEL that comes to Clark County. Then maybe, Moeller's numbers will seem a bit more realistic.

goldenoldie — February 10, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — February 9, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

I'm not knocking San Antonio. I like what I've seen with regards to Riverwalk, but it is a tourist trap. Is that what we need here??? If so, there's just not enough to give Vancouver or Clark County for that matter...the push it needs to become a tourist trap. It's my opinion that we shouldn't be trying to entice just the tourists. With WSU right here in our area, we should be focusing on science, archaeology, botany, history. We've got local archaeology and history covered with the Fort...should be continuing to preserve older buildings such as the old hospital, St. James Catholic Church and the Academy Building and the Covington House to name a few. It is all the more reason to include a Conservatory and focus on a botanical garden which reflects native Northwest Plants. With the right open space near Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge from the west side of Vancouver (possibly near Firestone Farms or near Vancouver Lake Park), it would definitely serve 5 purposes...1) Jobs acquired for construction, at time of planning/planting, care and maintenance and future jobs after full training at local community college and WSU Vancouver, 2) Increase awareness to the needs of ecological conservation not just for our land but for our waterways and improved management of the land/water which surrounds us (beyond the Water Resource Center), 3) Land Preservation/Stewardship opportunities 4) Community Involvement and 5) Tourist destination. Come to think of it...a Conservatory at the Water Resourced Education Center would be a good idea as well. Fits in well with the waterfront improvement.


goldenoldie — February 10, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oooh...the Heritage Farm on 78th Street would be another good place to locate a Conservatory. Plenty of open space, there! So many ideas...such potential!!!

goldenoldie — February 10, 2013 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The first group I ever saw live - Wash DC area sometime during the '66/'67 school year. Still one of my favorite songs - maybe the original punk band.

roger — February 10, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


People went to San Antonio to see the Alamo - The Riverwalk was an added bonus - a couple blocks walk away.

The Waterfront park they want to build here isn't tied to tourism - I think they gave up that ghost a while ago. This is more an attempt to join a Pearl District type neighborhood with a McCall Waterfront Park - nice upscale apartments, with people walking around the coffee shops and bistros, and hanging out in the park along the river.

This is the reason they're pushing so hard for light rail - and claiming there will be lots of jobs because of it. Well, kindly note the two lines after the bullet comments. There will be limited commercial uses - the only jobs there will be hotel maids and coffee shop barristas. The real reason for LRT is to attract those who find that the Pearl has become much too expensive to live in - get them over here.

roger — February 10, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 10, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

Oh man, Roger. 96 tears, one of my top ten. I love it! Thanks.

hawkeye — February 10, 2013 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You can livestream the meetings from here:;=10474&itemID;=170716

langenthal — February 11, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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