Open forum, Feb 11-17



The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your ID or register for an account at

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor John Hill --



holycrap- Your name could have been today's headline!


**Pope Benedict XVI forks over the “keys to heaven”**

*The scandal-plagued pope does the unthinkable. And it's the best choice he's ever made for the Church*

But the biggest question is a simple one: Why a man would bail on a job he and his colleagues believe the Holy Spirit wanted him to have.

There are already, in these early moments after the announcement, the inevitable conspiracy theories floating about that there must be a scandal of epic proportions about to blow up. More than any other modern papacy, Benedict’s has been marked by a continuous onslaught of controversy. Just days ago, 12,000 pages of court records emerged regarding sexual abuse by Catholic priests – and the calculated efforts of Church authorities to cover it up.

Last month, bishops in Germany abruptly pulled an independent investigation into sex abuse there. In recent months, as sweeping reforms for LGBT men and women around the world have ushered in a new era of tolerance and civil rights, the Church has doubled down on its stance against “all forms of weakening” traditional man-lady relationships. Did we mention the money-laundering scandals? And throughout it all, the one man at the top of the chain of command has yet to emerge as anything but less than competent at best and downright duplicitous at worst.

His career beginnings were inauspicious. The German-born leader of the Catholic Church grew up under the Third Reich, and like all boys of his era, was compelled to join the Hitler Youth as a teenager. (Though it’s still up to history to judge whether his predecessor Pope John Paul II’s record as a church leader, the former Karol Wojtyla’s dramatic experience as a young Pole during a dozen years of Nazi occupation — including hiding from the Gestapo — were considerably different from Benedict’s.) As a priest, Church documents have revealed Ratzinger as a man more concerned that defrocking clerics accused of sexually abusing children “could provoke some scandal among the faithful” than advocating strongly for justice for victims. And just last year, a scandal involving leaked confidential Vatican documents portrayed the pope as a “lonely” man, plagued with trouble “keeping the shop together or getting information owing to all the filtering and intrigues surrounding him.”

Any of the unpleasant messes that have marked his papacy might be reason for an ordinary man to walk away – or be gently nudged — from his post. But being a former Hitler Youth who helped cover sex abuse has rarely kept anybody out of a job in the Catholic Church.

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm pretty sure the answer lies with spiritual strength vs. physical strength. The AP article I read doesn't detail what his physical infirmity might be, but suggests he's on the downhill slide by the comparison to John Paul II's final days.

I suppose one could extend the discussion by saying all evidence points to that this entity called God really doesn't care enough about us to strengthen his lead mortal representative - The Judeo-Christian god tends to be very punitive in nature (to put it mildly); it was the Christian Jesus who tried to make things a little easier for the believers.

roger — February 11, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Read the history of the various inquisitions from the 12th Century onward - whole groups of people hunted down and killed by the Catholic Church. I doubt the current Pope's history with the Hitler Youth fazed any of the inner circle who elected him.

roger — February 11, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- I respect your heart and mind, and being ex Catholic, any thoughts on this Pope thing?

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now you did it Nail. I really tried not to comment at all as I got into hot water too many times expressing my opinion about this RC topic.
But as you asked....I thought the bishops messed up when they picked him. He belongs a few centuries earlier. One of the first things he did strengthen the office of the inquisition (!), among other things. So all I can say is: good riddance. Hope they get a more modern, better leader next time.
Nope, will not answer anything else, will not discuss. This is my own opinion and that's all there is to it.

luvithere — February 11, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I meant the cardinals, not the bishops. Sorry, too many white and red hats at the vatican for me to keep track. :)

luvithere — February 11, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- Thanks for your input. I'm not Catholic n all, but I think the Church should start thinking outside the box a bit when choosing it's next Ruler. Go a little younger, someone well known, respected, under the radar...

How about Jerry Seinfeld or Drew Carey?

Maybe it's time Europeans gave the keys to the PopeMobile to someone else, someone of color...

...Al Roker?

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd keep Sandusky off the short list!

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, in all seriousness. I find nothing wrong with anybody retiring if they recognize the fact they can't do the job any longer. That holds for the pope also. I wish him well as a human being in his monastic retirement.

luvithere — February 11, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not meaning to poke too much fun at the Church, lest I be accused of a hate crime. :)

It is interesting, and considering it hasn't happened in 600 years, I wonder if health is the reason?

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just an observation here...

Why is it they seem to always pick the oldest guy possible? Do they think they can control him easier or if they don't like his politics after he's in, they are assured he will crap out soon? They are probably afraid to get a young guy in there thinking he will change things too much.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Why not Obama, Young enough, powerful enough, speaks like a visionary, has millions of followers...he can move right in after his Presidency....Has a closet full of skeletons... Seems to be the prefect fit...

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Private Bush family information, including correspondence from both President Bushes, is said to have been compromised by a hacking attack.

According to The Smoking Gun, hackers broke into several email accounts owned by members of the Bush family.

The Smoking Gun wrote:

In e-mail exchanges with the person who claimed responsibility for the hack, the individual claimed to have swiped "a lot of stuff," including "interesting mails" about George H.W. Bush's recent hospitalization, "Bush 43," and other Bush family members.

Included in the hacked material is a confidential October 2012 list of home addresses, cell phone numbers, and e-mails for dozens of Bush family members, including both former presidents, their siblings, and their children. The posted photos and e-mails contain a watermark with the hacker's online alias, "Guccifer."

The alleged attacks are the latest high-profile hacks to come to light. Earlier this week, hackers attacked several American media organizations, including The New York Times, and forced Twitter to reset as many as 250,000 account passwords as a precaution.

The Smoking Gun said that the Bush hackers broke into at least six email accounts, including that of George W. Bush's sister, Dorothy Bush Koch. Correspondence that was compromised was said to have been sent between 2009 and 2012 and included, among other things, George W. Bush's home address.;_cid=e757&ttag;=e757

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And speaking of..

vanwa- I have a future Supreme Court Justice appointment scheduled for Obama.

How about your party's standard bearer..Dubya.

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 9:19 a.m

Wow, your bigotry and ignorant hatred knows no bounds, does it.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


WOW THAT IS THE OLD perverbial POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK... Au contraire Mr Hawk... He would also be most likely the first African American to ascend to the throne " A chair occupied by an exalted personage"....Let me go back through our records and see the multitude of times you have flaunted the cards you deal so regularly....Take a minute to read...

Just an observation here...

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**John Brennan is a secret Muslim, says anti-Islam activist**

*Disgraced former FBI agent John Guandolo has a theory about Obama's pick to head the CIA VIDEO*

A former FBI agent and current anti-Islam activist believes that John Brennan, President Obama’s pick to head the CIA, is secretly a Muslim and therefore “unfit for duty” in the government.

On Friday, John Guandolo, the vice president of the Virginia-based Strategic Engagement Group (SEG), appeared on the Boca Raton-based radio show of Tom Trento, the president of the anti-”Shariah Islam” group The United West, formerly the Florida Security Council. Guandolo described how Brennan has supposedly “interwoven his life professionally and personally with individuals that we know are terrorists and he has given them access” to top officials in the federal government and “brought known Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood leaders into the government and into advisory positions.”

Guandolo continued that what “some would say is most disturbing, Mr. Brennan did convert to Islam when he served in an official capacity on behalf of the United States when he served in Saudi Arabia” and it “was the culmination of a counterintelligence operation against him to recruit him” by foreign operatives.

**In an email to supporters, Trento hyped the interview, referencing the “very brave Michele Bachmann” who recently accused Hillary Clinton’s aide Huma Abedin of having ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.**

Read more @


**Michele Bachmann still has access to our nation’s top secrets**

*After getting mocked by her own party for her Muslim witch hunt, she retains her seat on the Intelligence Committee*

And yet, Bachmann has now officially been reappointed to her seat on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. On Friday, House Republicans released their list of committee members for the nascent 113th Congress, and Bachmann’s name is on it. The post gives her access to classified information and the power to oversee the country’s intelligence agencies, including the use of drones and efforts to thwart Iran’s nuclear program.

And if that’s not enough, two of her co-conspirators, Reps. Lynn Westmoreland and Tom Rooney, will retain their seats on the committee as well. Westmoreland and Rooney, along with Reps. Louie Gohmert and Trent Franks, signed on to Bachmann’s letters to the inspectors general of five national security agencies demanding investigations into alleged Muslim Brotherhood penetration.

Read more @

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa- The first paragraph of your source...

*If Obama were wise he would really ramp up his misinformation machine. He should start giving away free weed, beer, hookers, tanks of gas, kazoos, Vaseline, stretch pants, whirly hats, Flowbees and ShamWows to anyone who promises to vote for him because he just ticked off stacks of Catholics even further by dissing Cardinal Dolan for the DNC.*

It explains much.

And you criticize other publications...I see what bar you have set for yourself.


nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.

I really hope they get that mental health going real soon, you are in dire need. Ever spent any time on "the couch"? If you have, it's time to go back. Also, if you have a Safeway Card, aluminum foil is on sale.

Maybe you didn't notice but Obama ISN'T Catholic. Other than that, I have NO idea what you are talking about.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My God. This reads like some teenfave mag or something! No wonder basement conservatives are more apt to offer their opinion rather than source data which reflects their viewpoint.

A comic book for empty bigoted big kids......amazing......

*Our First Look section will wow you with amazing photography. Our Word section, which often highlights ridiculous recent quotes from politicians, will likely have you laughing.*

*A year-long subscription will open your eyes on topics ranging from gun rights and sex-trafficking to national security, government invasion into your private life, and the opinions of your favorite conservative commentators. It's the place to find interviews with and profiles and writings of some of **your favorite commentators and elected officials, including Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Allen West, Susana Martinez, Dana Perino and many more.***

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That help is around the corner for all of us POMPASS ones... Look in the mirror OL WISE one....Can't take the heat get out of the Kitchen, you prob remember that one??

Speaking of Bullies.. Yes Bullies...Here is snippet about your vastly over rated majority elected president who won in a landslide according to a few down here...

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Great Divider, Obama has been given this new moniker... Nice little article

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.

No thinking person can "source" their opinion, an opinion by definition is one's own.

frobert — February 11, 2013 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 12:02 p.m.

Interesting how you interpret different articles. You either need more drugs or less drugs.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

o·pin·ion [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

soapbox4u — February 11, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

Let's see - spontaneous thinking? Thoughts popping right of the air without a input source, okay is this some form of free thinking yet to haven't heard about???

soapbox4u — February 11, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- And may I encourage you to look up 'reflect', as long as this is the substance you're offering.

*No thinking person can "source" their opinion, an opinion by definition is one's own.*

Time for Scalia to step down.


nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Republicans aren't serious about governing.

On one hand this is a good thing because it reminds Americans how extreme and foolish Republican leadership/politicians have become and translates into future votes.

On the other hand Republicans continue to embarrass America on the world stage.


**Ted Nugent to attend Obama speech**

Rocker Ted Nugent, who made fiery comments about the Obama administration last year, will be attending the State of the Union address on Tuesday as a guest of GOP Rep. Steve Stockman.

The Secret Service talked to Nugent last year after the musician, a long-time NRA board member, criticized President Obama and the Supreme Court at the National Rifle Association meeting in St. Louis.

Nugent, who supported Republican Mitt Romney for president, said if Obama won re-election, "I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year."

The rocker, best known for his hit 1970s hit Cat Scratch Fever, said he never threatened Obama and described his Secret Service sit-down as a "good, solid, professional meeting."

Stockman's office will be scheduling interviews for Nugent after Obama's remarks to a joint session of Congress. Each rank-and-file member of Congress is entitled to invite one guest to these joint sessions.

"I am excited to have a patriot like Ted Nugent joining me in the House chamber to hear from President Obama," said Stockman, R-Texas. "After the address, I'm sure Ted will have plenty to say."

Stockman, who returned to Congress in January after a 16-year hiatus, garnered headlines by threatening to impeach Obama if he used executive privilege to push gun-control legislation. Obama has proposed several measures, including a new assault weapons ban, a limit on the capacity of ammunition clips, and universal background checks.

The gun legislation faces fierce resistance from Republicans in Congress. Stockman, who backed off the impeachment threat, recently introduced legislation to repeal zero-tolerance laws for guns in school zones.

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I am excited to have a patriot like Ted Nugent joining me in the House chamber to hear from President Obama," said Stockman, R-Texas. "After the address, I'm sure Ted will have plenty to say."

So Nugent's VERY pro-gun stance makes him a patriot, huh? I guess that terminology appeals to some. I thick his antics and rhetoric are ridiculous.

The belief that the cure for the gun problem-and there is one-is more guns is as misguided as passing more laws restricting guns. The pro-gun folks do have a good point, criminals could care less about gun laws. The anti-gun folks are also correct is the fact there are too many guns out there for too many people that shouldn't be able to get one. And as usual, there is not much common ground to from which to really tackle the problem. So the carnage will continue.

mrd — February 11, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nugent is a joke and by extension so is Rep. Stockman. It just goes to show everyone how serious he takes the speech. It should be an embarrassment to the whole State of Texas. Might just as well invite Jesse Ventura and Glen Beck.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think the gun issue is a lot like the government's war machinery. Both use fear that some rare (statistically) event will occur to promote acceptance of their positions in order to perpetuate those positions. The draconian security measures taken at Obama's inaguration demonstrate the point. Airspace was closed for about a 10 mile radius, hundreds of square blocks were closed (car bombs, etc) with snipers on rooftops. Thousands of hazmat suits were stockpiled, etc, etc, etc. There was no consideration given to severe weather, when in fact, the weather conditions were conducive to high winds, even a tornado, and these things were far more likely to have occured.

I have never been robbed or witnessed gun violence. Neither have my kids, several sisters, nor any of their 14 children. The only person I know that even came close was a guy that worked for a cleaning outfit that had to clean a room where someone commited suicide with a gun.

If someone feels their lifestyle, place of residence, or places they frequent require a gun for safety, then by all means, carry a gun. With the odds of a gun in the home hundreds of times more likely to be used in a suicide, murder, or accidental shooting rather than for protection, I prefer to play the odds.

mrd — February 11, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd: Excellent points you make at 2:23 pm. Low-incident crimes get high-profile from the press, giving folks the impression that such crime is happening around every corner.

I was raised in high-crime cities such as Chicago and Gary, Indiana. I visit NYC often. I have explored the night life of Paris and Amsterdam. Not once in my long and storied life have I ever been faced with a threat that required a gun.

I have, however, known families whose lives have been devastated by a child gaining access to an unsecured weapon with fatal results.

For me, owning a gun creates more problems than it potentially solves.

Just my opinion.

manthou — February 11, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No other president has Emarrased Americans More Than got that right....How many heads of state has he talked behind there back on TV and then been caught afterwards. You only have to go as far as our military... 63% didn't vote for him and probably don't respect him either, that may be personal opinion over fact....the 63% isn't...wonder why...

Respectfully, Sir

vanwadreamer — February 11, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Amazing insight reason and depth vanwa.

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy C, my man! I might not agree with you on guns, but I am 100% with you on 2016 and Hilary. Time for a female it is! This one has the brains.

luvithere — February 11, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa respectfully, do you believe President Obama is a legitimate President? Do you believe he is American born and a citizen of these United States.

Do you believe he is a member of the Communist Party?

Do you believe he means well, as opposed to being motivated to destroy America?

I believe I've asked these questions of you before vanwa, only to met with silence.

(It's not like I'm expecting a narrative on why you enthusiastically endorse forced human sterilization or an explanation as to why a "uppity middle class" is to blame for our Country's financial woes like I have **roger**. **:)** (only to be met with silence.)


*Obama is just an "in between".*

holycrapola — February 11, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.

One helluva "in between". He's barely begun his *next four years* and you are relegating him to this?

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with Hillary as Prez to this point, (although a long time away) but I'm careful not to diminish this President's accomplishments, both now and in the future.

America doesn't need a female president in 2016.

What we'll need is someone who will continue to move this country forward and not push us back in time like the GOP would.

We'll need a well seasoned competent progressive/liberal leader of the free world in 2016.

And to this point no one "Fits The Bill Better Than Hill"!

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

eh Nail, I think we need a female. You dudes have messed it up long enough. And this comes from an Obama supporter.

luvithere — February 11, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As far as Hillary goes, I'm on board. It will be funny to see Bill as the "First Man". Hopefully he won't be an embarrassment like Billy Carter. (Remember him? Billy Beer)

Vanwa, you never fail to entertain. I'll bet when Hillary gets in (yes I meant WHEN) you'll probably have a heart attack "cause you won't like a dame tellin you wat ta do.

hawkeye — February 11, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is another take on the gun issue...

Ask any police officer if he would leave his/her weapons at the police station and do not bring a gun at home because he trusts that his department will be on time and ahead of a potential robber, terrorist or assassin on his footsteps or inside.

I would dare to bet that not one will go home without his gun or stay home without his gun.

Hell will freeze over before I would take the disarm a citizen stand unless I am the dictator in charge...LOL no way no how risks and all

Ask how many have had children killed by these same guns that supposedly made someone safe. The cop in Battleground......sorry, ain't buyin' this.

mrd — February 11, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've explained the sterilization. There are too many people, and voluntary methods don't work. We need a limit - one or two children and you're done. If you know something better - that will work - please educate me.

Go read the uppity working class comment again and just perhaps you'll note the sarcasm coming through.

I take it you're bored. Go watch Jon Stewart - Steffie is on. Then watch Colbert - George Wills.


roger — February 11, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I've explained the sterilization.*

No you haven't. Not in the least and you know this. Doesn't much matter to me if you take responsibility for your writing/ideas. But I'll try again.

What is your idea for sterilization implementation in America. Lottery, class, ethnicity etc.

How do you reconcile this advocacy for forced sterilization with regards to our constitution, individual freedoms, life liberty & the pursuit of happiness as I've asked you before.

This I don't believe I have asked. Should this be U.N. driven and enforced militarily? Should we lead the world in this yet unharvested method of *democracy*?

*please educate me.*

This is your idea living in today's America. I suggest education has not been the answer.

*Go read the uppity working class comment again and just perhaps you'll note the sarcasm coming through.*

You need work on your delivery dude. That or some backward skates.

*I take it you're bored. Go watch Jon Stewart - Steffie is on. Then watch Colbert - George Wills.*

Your comments used to be thoughtful and somewhat rational. Many times short-sighted imo, but somewhat reasonable. But anymore...

A lot of snarky crap, both here and FB. (I know I know, the fingers pointing back pot kettle thing...; )I believed you've raised your personal sense of self with your self proclaimed CRC expertise. :) That can be a good thing I guess. Then again..


Sorry to trouble you sir.roger, I'll be more select.

BTW roger — February 11, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.

At least you used to source Wiki, as well as your love for the History channel.

Now you've become a great historian living in pompa city (no light rail!)

Not to get you off track about your advocacy for forced sterilization...

Please proceed governor..

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know if a day goes by without the Columbian posting a...

What are the radical anti CRC/Light/Progress activists going to do after light rail is put in. (assuming most haven't died of old age)

Hold up signs to reverse it like they did with Obamacare? :)

The first commenter gave thanks to the Bagger/Birther lawyer. You can't make this stuff up.

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Very typical response for you, Nails. Nothing relevant to add to the conversation, so instead attack the opposition.

If you want to actually learn something, read this. You should be able to see that 1) The CRC has always targeted their public input, and 2) The commuters who will pay the tolls weren't invited.

A 2006 report the CRC commissioned. The expert panel determined the current bridges could be seismically retrofitted to withstand an earthquake for less than $300 million.

The tolling study. Page 18/19 shows the estimated rates under variable tolling. Note the doubled and quadrupled rates for trucking. Note the higher end $6-$8 one way during peak hours (rush hour; the captive group). And while reading, keep in mind that when reaching a Budget compromise here in WA last year, Ann Rivers and others negotiated in that tolling would not start until the bridge opens, and that the I205 will not be tolled.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

But I do agree with you, Nails, on this little lawsuit initiative. I understand their intent - to keep Mayor Tim from using City funds to pay the O&I; we voted down. But they're presenting it as a vote on LRT itself - and that is something that isn't within the purview of the City. If you'd care to read WA State law, we in the C-Tran service district are supposed to vote on the system plan and the financing plan. CRC documentation clearly shows C-Tran is the transit agency for this side of the river.

Read some more and you should be able to see that the argument that this doesn't apply because the states are running the program is bogus - the state DOTs will always be involved in the highway process.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Very typical response for you, Nails. Nothing relevant to add to the conversation, so instead attack the opposition.*

I'd ask you to cite precedent, but you wouldn't be able to. It's an old line but a comforting one for a few.

*If you want to actually learn something, read this.*

Thank you sir.

*But I do agree with you, Nails, on this little lawsuit initiative.*

I've made no statement concerning this. Just noted how absurd your representation is.

As I've said before, what's most troubling about this LRC thing, are those of you who endorse underhanded tactics to get your way.

Then gripe about dishonest politicians.


nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I congratulate and appreciate Pope Benedict for the duration he spent guiding the Catholics of the world down the path of continued religious freedom. Although he has come under fire with his statements towards issues of modern-day society which he is truly against and that not everybody agreed, he has proven to the world that the original word of God still holds true in his teachings of moral goodness to his followers, forever strengthening the need to do what is right in the eyes of our Lord.

It is sad for those of Catholic faith to witness the stepping down of the Pope from his position in the Roman Catholic Church but in another word, it also shows the strength of a man who admits his failing health is getting the better of him and can no longer perform the active duties of a servant of God as is expected of him. Although the strength of his spirituality will live on...not just within him, but within the hearts and minds of all who follow the word of God through their faith. Soon, a new Pope will be chosen...a new servant of God who will continue to guide the Roman Catholics of the world.

I wish him well.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow...bullying the people are we, now??? That attitude of "We'll bet what we want and when we want" appears to be just shy of mob tactics as far as I'm concerned. And MAX to Vancouver is to be considered an improvement??? Is this what we want...a bullying transit system??? Aw HELL No!!! Thanks but no thanks.

We'll take C-Tran's transit system over Trimet's any day...WITHOUT LRT, thank you very much!!!!

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

that should be "get what we want and when we want" rather than "bet...."

Sorry about that. Guess I can blame it on a sprained wrist, today.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hmm...those electronic freeway signs that Clark County wants to host in a pilot program...

Will they show the speed you're going like the one does on 112th near Mill Plain??? Rather convenient for those of us who try our best to obey the speed limits.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Walter Cronkite's 1967 Vision Of The 21st Century Home Office Is Shockingly On Point (VIDEO)**

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If the Clackamas Co commissioners didn't want light rail, they shouldn't have signed a contract with Tri-Met to build it. Probably shouldn't have agreed to pay $56,000 per day if the project runs over schedule either. Little late to be considering whether or not to build it, they've already done so.

mrd — February 12, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — February 12, 2013 at 7:58 a.m.

True, mrd...true. Thankfully, we have commissioners on our side of the river who are doing something BEFORE it's too late. Now, the people can clearly see the type of manipulation TriMet has on a community and can function in the red and *still* get away with it.

I also want to reiterate...I am not against replacement of the bridges. I AM against a *failing transit system from another state,* coming into *our* state with their troubled financial woes dumped on our laps.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Millions Improperly Claimed U.S. Phone Subsidies**

The U.S. government spent about $2.2 billion last year to provide phones to low-income Americans, but a Wall Street Journal review of the program shows that a large number of those who received the phones haven't proved they are eligible to receive them.

The Lifeline program—begun in 1984 to ensure that poor people aren't cut off from jobs, families and emergency services—is funded by charges that appear on the monthly bills of every landline and wireless-phone customer. Payouts under the program have shot up from $819 million in 2008, as more wireless carriers have persuaded regulators to let them offer the service.

Suspecting that many of the new subscribers were ineligible, the Federal Communications Commission tightened the rules last year and required carriers to verify that existing subscribers were eligible. The agency estimated 15% of users would be weeded out, but far more were dropped.

A review of five top recipients of Lifeline support conducted by the FCC for the Journal showed that 41% of their more than six million subscribers either couldn't demonstrate their eligibility or didn't respond to requests for certification.

This program is great for those who actually needs it like those it was intended for. But, once again America is fleeced by those who don't. Instead of cutting some programs and gutting the military, maybe the government needs to look further into these kind of programs and weed out those who don't deserve to be on the government dole.

ELISI — February 12, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The carriers—AT&T; T +0.74%Inc.; Telrite Corp.; Tag Mobile USA; Verizon Communications VZ +0.15%Inc.; and the Virgin Mobile USA unit of Sprint Nextel Corp. S +0.78%—accounted for 34% of total Lifeline subscribers last May. Two of the other largest providers, TracFone Wireless Inc. and Nexus Communications Inc., asked the FCC to keep their counts confidential.

look who's getting the money-corporations. The FCC tightened the elgibility rules last year and the carriers are to determine the elgibility of participants-not the government. Seems the big boys like spending the money. The government doesn't fund this program, anyone paying a phone bill does in the form of a surcharge. Seems to me, this program really has little, if anything, to do with government spending.

mrd — February 12, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Raytheon has developed a data-mining program for social media website participants. Civil rights activists are concerned.

Read about it and wonder if all those FB users have played into the hands of Big Brother. Yes, if you don't do anything illegal, I guess you can relax. But there is always that pesky problem of the government seeing things that aren't there....making much ado about your travel patterns and associates. :)

[link text][1]


manthou — February 12, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 12, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

I think everyone is getting totally off track on this LRT garbage. That crazy Peterson woman (with the help of DM) is trying to get the residents of the City of Vancouver to vote yes or no on LRT. Now, as I understand it, the only entity that has any control AT ALL on this is the C-tran service area. So a vote in Vancouver would be a waste of time and money. Wouldn't there have to be a vote in the C-tran service district to get a consensus of what "we" all want, not just Vancouver? And wouldn't that take a ruling from the C-tran board to put a vote on a ballot? And if that is true, then this lawsuit by the crazy attorney and, by extension, the petition by Peterson are all a huge waste of time.

But then again, since it will be paid for by "user fees" and not by everyone, I guess we really have no control on any of it.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not included is Nugent's take on to tonight.

This Grand Old Party just gets classier with time!

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 9:02 a.m

It was only a matter of time. But, you have control over what they learn. All you have to do is quit sharing EVERY DAMN THING YOU DO!

When will these kids learn?

Have you ever watched a movie called "Easy A" ? So good.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Paul Harvey's vision of the future is more accurate best take 1965

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa respectfully, do you believe President Obama is a legitimate President? Do you believe he is American born and a citizen of these United States.

Do you believe he is a member of the Communist Party?

Do you believe he means well, as opposed to being motivated to destroy America?

nailingit — February 11, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

((*Maybe the wrong line of questioning.*))...

vanwa- Do you believe Barack Obama is a human being as opposed to being a manifestation of a extra-terrestrial presence?

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Hey, riddle me this?

If a person doesn't believe in God, how would he believe in the Devil?

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No one represents mainstream libertarian conservative thought in the basement better than you vanwa.

Is this it? This is mainstream thought amongst the hardcore Hannity Bagger crowd such as yourself, is it not?

Do you think Barack is the Anti-Christ?

No wonder producing a birth certificate has been such an issue! It would cast Obama as angelic and God as his father!

Would this help Biden in 2016?

So many questions...

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Great question! maybe those will go to atheist heaven or atheist hell, IDK... I think everyone has some type of belief in the ever after, what that is I guess depends on your faith or lack there of...

On another note this CRC project: I have yet to see DM assistant Tiffany Couch "Forensic Expert' bring anything of note after saying she had documents that supported some kind of wastefull Neptism spending on the project... People like that lose any credibilty right away,as is DM stance...

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vanwa, you are aware that Ms. Tiffany Couch is not Madore's assistant...right??? Her company was *hired* by Madore in order to conduct the independent audit of the expenditures of the CRC.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa @ anytime- I don't blame ya! :)

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Clark County Commission now ---

Erik Hidle ‏@col_clarkgov [Twitter]

Judging by claps it would seem about 75 percent here are pleased with speakers supporting the CRC. [Twitter]

DM announced that audience may applaud after speakers but no booing or indications of disagreement. So far ALL speakers during bridge replacement discussion are pro bridge and oppose resolution.I bet DM is surprised.

You can livestream.

langenthal — February 12, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Folks, I have been watching the public comment on Channel 23 for the Clark County Commission resolution to oppose the CRC/light rail.

Steve Stuart is sick.

Mielke is running the meeting.

So far, the testimony is overwhelmingly AGAINST this resolution. Most of the testimony revolves around job creation and the economy. The folks against the resolution have more weight and data with their arguments, as well as more articulate. Just my opinion.

How will David Madore rationalize his stance on the CRC, when he claims to be in favor of job creation?

I also suspect Steve Stuart is absent for other reasons.

The two commissioners are getting hand-slapped today in a way that should embarrass them, especially over the lack of advance public notice.

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Our impressions seem to be similar. :)

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the reminder guys, just turned to it.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I must say I am surprised. Loving all the applause. The speakers have been respectful. That is not the case when anti bridge speakers attend [Debbie Peterson,et al].

I think Peter Van Nortwick is the only one supporting resolution. Although Crain & Tweet haven't spoken yet on the resolution.

langenthal — February 12, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, langenthal, I am sure you are hearing Carolyn Crain and Josephine Wentzel. :)

However, didn't you just love Royce Pollard's tongue lashing?

It will be fascinating to see if they vote this resolution in, after hearing from all the businesses, unions, and citizens who have asked the commissioners to reject the proposal.

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO-My bad..You are right.. I was trying to use my artistic license as it seems they are joined at the hip in pretty much every article with DM in it....I'm for the new bridge but please ligt rail.... But as we know without it , the dang thing won't be built..


On another note sports related and I'm a huge Seattle Fan, I don't think they should sign him for 7 years at 170 million... He is a pitcher and a great one but they could do allott better like get a couple starters and a catcher for that money, and who knows about his arm

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OMG: Madore is preaching from the commissioner pulpit. Did he hear anything that was presented to him today?

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore should have limited his time to three minutes.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore needs to listen more and talk less.

Mielke needs to ask the wizard for a brain.

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 12:24 p.m.

Sorry, were you talking baseball? Too boring for me, don't follow it.

manthou, now is the ONLY time I wish I had Comcrap. Can you watch online?

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I sent a msg for you yesterday but attached to last week's Forum. I included the link so you can livestream City Council, County Commission, and Southwest Washington Behavioral Health Board [Madore is on this].

I called CVTV and asked them to also provide the County Commission meeting that is on Wednesdays. It is open to the public but is in a small room and is not televised. None of the various transportation meetings are televised either.

The SWAAD meetings need to be available also. Madore is going to get embroiled in that brouhaha.

Madore is using the Wed meetings for his surprises. I think it's very important to see all his "transparency".

langenthal — February 12, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — February 12, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.


I've got it bookmarked now. Thanks so much.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay **all** you supporters of light rail into Vancouver, please answer with honesty and without insult when I ask the question at the end of this post after reading what I'm about to say.

I cannot understand how anybody could support such an addition to our city OR county when it is clear that in the next 20 years, C-Tran has no intention of expanding light rail, should it continue to the proposed Fort Vancouver Way Transit Center as TriMet would like.

I cannot understand how anybody could support a group's vision of the current crossing design, knowing the projected figures of increased traffic flow, population increase and supposed good economic times which would bring in future funding to support the light rail in the first place...were all blown out of proportion to support their agenda.

I cannot understand why anybody would want to further financially cripple the already struggling members of our community, given the hardship already placed on us.

I cannot understand how anybody could support a second public transportation group (TriMet), one that has a constant and troubled history of working in the red, relying mostly on federal funding and taxation by the people of Oregon...into Clark County, imposing yet more taxes, tolls and fees in order to keep MAX running while we already have a good transit system (C-Tran) in our county in the first place.

So my question to you who support MAX into Vancouver, please enlighten me as to actual facts...why it is such a good idea to even continue such a project???

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 12, 2013 at 12:24 p.m.

When you said "I'm for the new bridge but please ligt rail.... But as we know without it , the dang thing won't be built..," that is what Mayor Pollard once wanted us to believe as do the Columbia River Crossing supporters.

They tried to say it's more expensive to continue with buses rather than LRT yet it has been proven in transportation studies that the price comparison is about the same. They have tried to say it's more energy efficient, but that was before the transition to hybrid AND they have not mentioned the electricity needed in order to keep the trains moving. They've tried to say that light rail would cut back on the utilization of fossil fuel, but that was before the influx of the hybrid and electric cars. They've tried to say it would bring more jobs to Vancouver, yet the jobs would already be filled by existing employees in the companies involved in construction...temporary jobs.

Vanwa, there were several including high capacity transit (much like the buses we already have and could even continue to utilize) instead of MAX on the crossing...but there was a needed push by the powers that be who were consumed with the propaganda by TriMet that bigger is better. Did we ever get to make a decision on the design aspect? When were the meetings for public input? Funny, it wasn't brought to the attention of the people for public input until AFTER the Crossing folks had made the design choice.

This project isn't one which involves just the people in the core of downtown. This affects anybody who utilizes the bridge or pays the taxes/tolls/fees...and they kept it hush hush till their game was in full force. Now...anybody who opposes the waste of this project are looked upon as *radical teabaggers* rather than looking at the people as those who are tired of the wasted funding which could have easily built a nice crossing at a lot less cost. The crowd of opposition is growing and those who stand to lose big bucks are engaged in a temper tantrum.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie,I agree with what you say.But I think that the question should be directed to Jim Moller.I know you have been to many meetings as have I.And after attending those meetings I can't understand their push for Lite Rail either.I just do not think that the Good Old Boys club are going to let us win.We simply do not have the funds to fight them.

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal is my belief that the fight isn't over till the construction begins. There's a lot riding on this project, but there's also a lot at stake with regards to the people and the burden of costs this project puts on us. Rep. Herrera-Beutler has joined up with two others with a formal request to the US Coast Guard to conduct an economic impact study. The USCG has not approved the height restrictions set forth by the CRC and Clark County Commissioners now officially oppose the crossing project. Seems to me, the battle has just begun. We may not have the funds to fight the Good Ol' Boyz Club, but it appears those who we have voted into their position are earning their keep.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 12, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.

Do they actually need light rail as part of that infrastructure, though???

You say Madore and Mielke are just a bump on the road but you have to remember this, my fellow forum dweller...

There has to be support by the community and their leadership in order to pay for maintenance and operations for light rail...and it isn't part of the majority!!! Seems to me, there's some folks in local government who think they are above the law in making decisions for the people...and the people have come forth with a lawsuit regarding that very fact. What support there slowly eroding away, holyc.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What bothers me is because of this "special interest" design, we may end up losing the entire bridge replacement altogether which in my opinion would not be a good result. If that infrastructure is so indicative of improving our future, why is it that not everybody supports it?

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie,I know we do have some support from a few of our elected ones.But I am concerened about the Coast Guard.They may cave if the political pressure gets to much.Our Dem's in this state have a lot of pull.But we do have Rep.Herrera-Beutler I think on our side.I am not against a new bridge.I would have liked to have seen it be a third bridge.I am just against LRT and BRT.I have alot to lose if LRT goes in.My shop that I have owned for 35 years is half block from the tracks.And I rely a lot on drive by traffic.The amount of construction would be a business killer.

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 12, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

It's just that. It's a plan. That doesn't mean it's written in stone. There's too many pending issues.

According to the Washington Joint Transportation Committee on FTA New Starts(courtesy of the document in the following link): A New Starts Full Funding Grant Agreement (FFGA) requires all capital funds to be identified and committed, including state equity funds and tolling authorization.

Maintenance and operations of light rail is not committed since the taxpayers voted it down. There has not been a Bi-State Tolling agreement, either. Final design has not been approved by the US Coast Guard and state funding has not yet been secured as far as I know.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK Goldie, I'll give you my take on this (if you didn't know already) we need the bridge, for many reasons. Problem is, the Coast Guard is going to throw a monkey in the wrench. They are going to tell the CRC that it's going to have to be XXX feet high and chances are it's going to eliminate LRT because of grade. It will be fun to see everyone scramble when that happens. Now me, I'm not against LRT, I'm just against us paying for it and I'm against it going downtown. If it's coming to this side of the ditch, it needs to be paid for by Trimet since they are the ones that will be profiting (if it ever makes a profit) and it needs to go straight up the freeway to at least Salmon Creek using the existing park and ride lots. That way it will be used by the most people in the most convenient locations.

Anyway, that's what I think.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

You are not alone in the furor of pending issues with the crossing project and in no way, does the type of profit you make with your business and what you could potentially lose with this project matter with regards to who will lose more than the other. Your business is just as important to you and the community as other businesses. Your voice should be just as important as the voice of other companies, whether you make $100 a year or $1,000,000 a year in profits.

There's a big player on the Columbia River who stands to lose millions, possibly more if the height of the proposed bridge is too low for what they transport on the river. If they lose their clientele, they lose their business and that would be a detrimental impact to Southwest Washington. I believe they're the main focus on height issues with regards to the USCG and their pending decision.

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 4:39 p.m.

Time to get the popcorn ready and enjoy the easy chair if the monkey wrench flies...8))

goldenoldie — February 12, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"They are going to tell the CRC that it's going to have to be XXX feet high and chances are it's going to eliminate LRT because of grade."

correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen just south of Airport Way on I-205, it looks like Max can negotiate grades not allowed on the interstate highways. If so, I don't think the grade issue-assuming there is one for lite rail-will amount to chit.

Going with HC on this one. If that bridge gets built, like it or not, it's going to have lite rail. Madore can scream his head off, the big fish ain't listening to him. A County Commissioner that sits on a commission with no say in the matter whatsoever-officially anyway. WHo's he? A nobody. GRandstanding SOB actually-so what's he really up to? How long can he ride this anti-toll, anti-lite rail position until he shows what he's REALLY about? BTW, anyone seen those floodgates holding back the jobs? Is Madore out there with his hands on the switch to open the floogates to drown us all with those jobs he promised? He said "day one". Hmm...another lying SOB politician-hoodathunk?

mrd — February 12, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, it is fun to see everyone jumping in again here with a passion. Nothing like light rail and the CRC to get some interesting discussion.

Madore and Mielke are doing what they promised the voters who put them in office. So that was no surprise there.

My observations: except for Tiffany Couch, who is the most articulate and data-driven opponent of CRC light rail, the anti-resolution/pro-CRC folks today did a much better job of advocating for their position. Lots of business suits showed up. Roy Pollard spanked Tom Mielke: "I can't believe some of the things that come out of your mouth."

I think Steve Stuart didn't show up (not because he was "ill"), but because he wants to distance himself as much as possible from this impotent resolution. If he had been there today, he would have voted NO to the resolution and that vote would haunt him in the next election.

I thought it was funny watching Madore and Mielke up there together without Bill Barron or Steve Stuart to remind them of protocol and the law. Eventually, those two together will make a fatal error (not intentional or mean-spirited, just ignorant), and they will wind up in deep doo. Mielke had to remind Madore to back up and make an official motion.

The good thing that came from today: there is a great public record of the overwhelming number against the declaration and for the CRC at this meeting today. Mielke is on camera saying that he wished he could hear some other opinions, and then practically begged folks who did not sign up to speak to do so. He squeezed a couple of weak anti-CRC speakers up from the audience at the end.

The tea party is alive and kicking in North and East Clark County and Madore and Mielke are its best friends.

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I know it's ROYCE Pollard. My auto-correct on this Mac drives me crazy.

manthou — February 12, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.

I agree. I posted to facebook a couple of times that this little effort in Vancouver detracts from the idea that this involves a whole lot more of us. Tim Leavitt and crowd have pretty much indicated they consider the old downtown of utmost importance, and the hell with the rest of us. Mayor Tim has done everything within his power to keep us out of the process.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 12, 2013 at 6:40 p.m.

Well you know what they say.... Follow the money.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger, looks like I picked up a fan on the FB side. Mike S. keeps coming after me. He better be careful, I'll bet the "C" is watching.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregon's HB 2800, addressing the I5 Bridge project.

A few points -

The total cost of the Interstate 5 bridge replacement
project may not exceed $3.413 billion. (Estimates elsewhere have it at $3.5 billion and climbing. There's also plenty of past experience in both OR and WA that says these major projects will go way over cost.)

They will not pay out their $450 mil share until our's is committed by 30 Sep 13; there's a full funding ($800 mil) application from Dept Trans sent to Congress; the USCG has issued a bridge permit; and they have a state analysis conducted to ensure there's sufficient cash flow and funding sources to pay for the project (this one geared toward ensuring their cost share doesn't exceed $450 mil).

And something I haven't seen mentioned before -- "In the event the bridge is operated as a toll bridge, then the share
of toll revenues accruing to this state shall be applied by the department to reimburse the state highway funds for expenditures made in connection with the bridge." Robert Dean used to claim that OR planned to recoup their $450 mil cost share through tolling - this seems to support that. I'm not exactly sure what's going on with this. OR state law requires that tolls collected get used to pay for the project itself. WA is running the tolling operation, yet there's quite a bit of talk about tolling revenues being deposited in the OR state Tollway Account. Definitely going to need a further look.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And here's something Andrea Damewood reported on in Willamette Week last week. I haven't seen it mentioned in either The Columbian or The Oregonian. The CRC has gone to the USCG with their application saying they want 116 feet clearance.

The article says that although the USCG isn't in favor of this height, they may bow to pressure from the White House.

The article closes with this --

"Moving the bridge height from 95 to 116 feet adds $30 million to the project’s cost, CRC Co-Director Nancy Boyd told WW. There will also be the additional price for the CRC to pay off four companies, including Oregon Iron Works, Thompson Metal Fab and Greenberry Industrial, who say they have commercial projects that will no longer fit under the I-5 bridges, which currently have a lift span.

Boyd says the CRC looked at adding a lift span to the new bridges, but planners found those costs to be about $250 million. She says she expects mitigation to cost less than that."

So, once again the taxpayer gets to pay even more for this bloated project.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, at least my good buddy Mike B likes you. Sort of, anyhow.

roger — February 12, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 12, 2013 at 7:28 p.m.

Zero idea of what you are referring to. Your phrasing indicates another unprovoked shot?

Always the gentleman. :))


What I saw today were well meaning local business leaders putting a face to and articulating their pro CRC light rail stance, understanding it benefits not only our community today, but decades to come. Business people, working people, not a bunch of disgruntled retirees with too much time on their hands. (although one or two)

The people arguing against light rail came off as small minded, to include our two county gov workers running this show.

What I also saw today was a few folks with the same old message and no plan.

This was the first time I've seen Couch. Maybe it was because she followed a long list of Pro CRC comments, but she was visibly shaken imo, and her commenting reflected it. Maybe she's not used to this type of spotlight? Not faulting her, just surprised. comment, except...never mind. And this crane lady. Her persona definitely shines through with her Facebook posts!

All in all, it seems to me that a loud vocal tea party faction is trying to hijack a project more than a decade in the making. Decades depending on one's view.

And some folks love throwing those wrenches in the works. If not for any other reason, just because they can. I found that much of this teabagger nonsense is made up of people who, if for no other reason, just enjoy watching things burn.

When did this group of people get fired up over light rail? Let me guess, Post Obama.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I said on the fb side that the Coast Guard would cave in.Do you really think they will approve 116 ft?

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's obvious Madore has little regard for job creation, why should he?

Do you guys really believe DM is sincere on this matter?

He knows there is nothing he can do to prevent light rail.

This is about ginning up his base, isolating them, using the victim card and harnessing all this negative emotion & energy and using it as a war cry to seek higher office in future elections. His goal is to further a social conservative political agenda on another level.

It's what they do, and sometimes it's how they do it.

It happens across America everyday. Some of you guys are being played to the hilt and you're unable to see it.

In my opinion.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also I asked Moeller why doesn't he support the riders of LRT paying the true cost to ride.He so far has not answered.Nailingit I don't think that Obama has much to do with the thought that goes into either supporting LRT or not.For a lot of us it is not only the cost but the reality of losing our business.My shop has been down town since 1952.I have owned it since 1978.The way the tracks are laid out it will pass a half block from my shop.Which will most likely shut us down.That will mean the loss of 4 jobs that pay an average of 50k a year.I had visions of that being my retirement.I have 2 sons that work for me that I wanted to take over.But I am encouraging them to look for something else.I am not the only business that will be hurt.The ones closer to the bridge will be a lot worse off than I.I will have at least a few years to pull out.

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- It's nice to hear a thoughtful meaningful personal response about this this.

I'm sorry about your projected loss. It would truly be devastating.

*The way the tracks are laid out it will pass a half block from my shop.Which will most likely shut us down.*

I'm curious as to why this would shut you down?

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I suggested higher office, but I never thought...(funny stuff!)

**New county commissioner resigns to run for Pope**

*"It's a much closer match for my interests and experience"*

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I rely on a lot of drive by customers.The amount of work that will happen on Broadway and the 3 blocks around us will shut traffic off for who knows how long.Also I run 2 to 3 service vans that will be effected as they come and go to the shop.I probably can work around some of it with a little help from the city but they have not been much help through the years.The other thing that is a big worry will be the tolls.I run vans over the bridge several times a day.All my suppliers are across the river.I can use 205 but that will add 30 to 40 minutes to a run.Some of my suppliers do deliver.But right now the fuel surcharge is 6 to 8 percent of invoice.I can't imagine what that would be once the tolls are started.I started working for this company when I was 16 in 1965.I did leave for a few years for Uncle Sam but came back in 1972.I do hate to see it go.I am hoping my one son will come up with a new idea.My youngest is already planing on something else.He started class's at Clark this past year.

timerick — February 12, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 8:40 p.m

I think Roger was directing that comment in my direction.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- I hope your projections turn out to be wrong. Best of luck to you, your business & family.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, I was going to stop by your shop and check it out, I used to do lots of glass work. I was working downtown for a few weeks on Main and 12th. I really hope the LRT doesn't affect you guys too much, I really don't know the route but if it messes you guys up it's really going to screw with the truck traffic to the docks.

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**When John Boehner just sat there**

*Obama backed preschool, jobs, keeping kids alive and helping a 102-year-old vote; GOP not impressed*

But Boehner’s disdain was unrivaled. He also managed not to rise even for a shout-out to “wounded warriors,” or 102-year-old Deseline Victor, who waited seven hours to vote in Miami on Election Day. It was sometimes hilarious to watch him next to Vice President Joe Biden, who looked like a happy Easter Bunny with his white hair, lavender tie, pink-tinted glasses and green Newtown ribbon. Biden seemed to occasionally enjoy standing up, clapping while looking down at Boehner sulking in his chair.

nailingit — February 12, 2013 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ooops. Hawkeye is correct; got in a hurry and forgot who I was addressing. No, Nails, no reason for unprovoked shots - you do well enough as it is.

roger — February 13, 2013 at 5:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well folks, here we go again. The pro Loo-Rail folks are makin' my backside ache again.

Goldenoldie I don't believe for one moment that Jim will answer you or anybody else why he would burden us with the folly. He is so caught up with his version of that utopia that I mentioned last week.

If you take a real good look at the corridors that Max currently uses they are for the most part filled with high density housing and service type businesses. Fast food joints, strip malls, and the like.

A long time ago I described what was taking place around one particular stop on 181st and NE Burnside. I recently stopped there again and found the SOSDD. I talked to the owner of the gas station there and he's been robbed once and scared off two more with a gun. There is a rehab/pain clinic along the route also. The building looks a lot like FT. Knox with razor wire and bars and alarms.

Now I don't believe that there will be a major crime wave if the Loo-Rail comes here. Not right away. But you have to remember that it took 20 years for that to happen over there. There are no good wage jobs along their corridors. They are, for the most part, minimum and part time to keep from having to pay for medical.

So I would like Jim to answer your questions GO and address some of the others that go along with them. But I really don't don't believe he will because he would have to be more informed about how it really works and he is just too far gone on the cool aid to educate himself of what the people of this fair county really think.

JohnCasey — February 13, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, holycrapola, --

Will the USCG cave? With the pressure from Napolitano and LaHood (representing the White House, and most likely a political payback to our Sen Murray) - it all depends on which way Admiral Papp decides - career or supporting the previous decisions on this project. I went and read the part of the law referenced in the past - it's not as definitive as being stated - meaning, the needs of EVERY river user don't have to be met. However, they do have to consider potential future use requirements. The point I've tried to stick with is that it would be an unwise decision to block all possible future growth to the east. Every other bridge to the Bridge of the Gods has at least 140 feet clearance. If they can't match this on the I5, then they ought to be building another drawbridge. And something tells me our two local Ports may have a role in this decision process that we haven't been informed about.

roger — February 13, 2013 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The topic of a surcharge on LRT or all transit tickets to help cover the cost of LRT was a topic at a past C-Tran meeting. No idea where that one went. And there has been noise in favor of this from some of our local politicians. The problem is, this would have to be applied across the entire TriMet service area as well. With both agency's tickets being honored, costs of tickets honored on both systems would have to be the same. And I strongly suspect this would be a very tough sell south of the river - people "down there" tend to view the CRC as being for Vancouver commuters, and their having to pay anything above their $450 mil cost share is going to draw even louder opposition than what's going down now. (The CRC proponents there may be in favor of LRT on the new bridge, but they mostly want us to foot the bill.)

roger — February 13, 2013 at 5:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 12, 2013 at 10:09 p.m.

The tracks will cross Mill Plain on Broadway and Washington, and LRT will have the right of way. Vancouver sunk a few dollars into widening Mill Plain a few years back and declared it to be the truck route to the Port. That was a waste. I suspect the people along 39th Street have already seen the handwriting - That will most likely be the new truck route of choice. However, if people actually drive downtown to the proposed parking garage at 18th and Washington, that's going to create a few issues.

roger — February 13, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another thing I think will be interesting is the parking garages. They're being built out of the $800 mil LRT money (assuming we get the whole amount). Originally, C-Tran was saying parking would be free for transit riders. Then the story slowly started changing (about the time TriMet was also floating the idea of charging to park at their lots). City of Vancouver recently put their parking garage up for sale. Now - maybe just my own distrust of anything tied to this project, but is it just possible Vancouver is seeing these garages as available for use to all, and not just restricted to transit users? I'd say there's much more to be learned here. To include - is it possible this could turn out to be a misuse of gov't funding earmarked for the transit system?

roger — February 13, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So glad Vancouver SD levy passed, as did Camas and Ridgefield.

Battle Ground, however, did not. :(

I noticed a new FB poster named Steve Madore. He is scolding the BG folks, who are in mourning today about the levy loss: if you care so much, he says, give the school district your own money and stop expecting everyone else to pay for it.

Really? A vibrant, thriving community supports their schools. A dying, regressive community does not. People are talking about moving out of BG. Fortunately, they have many local options from which to choose. Their property values, however, may suffer from the reputation of not supporting their collective young ones.

I do not get North Clark County voters.


holycrap: You exercise your first amendment rights so well here and I usually enjoy reading them. I wish you had shown a little more compassion today, however, about the deputy in CA who lost his life. Ouch. He is someone's son, father, brother, friend.

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- *No, Nails, no reason for unprovoked shots - you do well enough as it is.*

roger — February 13, 2013 at 5:15 a.m.

Thanks you sir. It's a tough job, but someone has to quiz the basement birthers and eugenists knowing that answers will never come. :)

holycrap- *Other than that, the President speech I only watched 2 minutes and turned it off.*

Try watching/listening longer. It's easier to support or denounce proposed policy if you hear what it is.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap/others in case you missed or want to review it.

Take note of Boehner introducing the President. Anymore I'd be surprised if he *didn't* sound drunk.


nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, have to come to Roger's defense, not that he needs it. His points about population growth are 100% valid. There simply are too many of us to sustain. I know it is a No no in this country to talk pop control, but why? We have to start somewhere, the discussion is needed.

And Roger, I got your sarcasm re the uppity middle class. I thought it was crystal clear.

Manthou: I remember last time levies failed in BG. Camas gained some really good school folks that way, teachers and admins. A shame that folks do not understand what a replacement levy is.

luvithere — February 13, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: You make a good point that I forgot: School staff members leave, as well as the families they used to serve.

I did that myself when Portland Public Schools decided to cut my type of service provider by 50%. I had seniority and made the cut, but was facing the ethical dilemma of pretending to provide appropriate services without any resources. I would have been stretched too thin. A whole bunch of us took a year's leave of absence and found jobs in Camas, Vancouver, Ridgefield. Not one of us returned after the "experimental" year was over.

Many administrators made the river leap North, as well, and their careers blossomed. Thinking of Vicky Phillips, who was offered a job with the Gates Foundation and Susan Enfield, who is the leading the Highline School District.

Battle Ground has many good educators and some great new school facilities. It is a shame for this community.

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- *There simply are too many of us to sustain. I know it is a No no in this country to talk pop control, but why? We have to start somewhere, the discussion is needed.*

luvit please feel free to begin this discussion. I've tried to get some details but to no avail.

What is your vision of a needed sustainable eugenics program?

P.S. I still think roger needs work on his delivery. **;**)

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit-If not a eugenics plan than a population control program of any sort. Thanks.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

population control:

no fed tax deduction for more the 2 kids.

surcharge for more than 2 students from one family enrolled in public schools.

health insurance coverage decreased for more than 2 kids, phased out at 5.

tax credit for married folks getting tubes tied or a vasectomy. the procedure would be free.

free birth control for any married person.

mrd — February 13, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd- I'm of the same mind of sorts. The health coverage thing I don't agree with. It's one thing to have incentive, it's another to break the financial backs of millions of Americans and would hurt the economy ta boot. No doubt Mormons and Catholics would take the biggest hit, and keep taking it due to religious beliefs.

Various forms of birth control should be accessible and free to everyone.

I think a big problem is the inherent belief that it is a prime directive to populate the earth, and that abortion is evil.

The religious right often preaches the more kids the better. This train of thought predicated in a conservative God based political belief system needs a conversation also.

We should get past thinking it's a command from God to re-populate.

I have a problem with folks advocating for big, extremely big, government to make these types of decisions for us. To force Americans into family planning.

*"voluntary methods don't work. We need a limit - one or two children and you're done."*

If I could get *any* reasoning from anyone how this would work I'm open to it.

On it's face it sounds like Communist China. Just trying to understand.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have a question...Since it sounds like you have an expertise in this area. Why does it take so many administrators aka: 3 associate principles and head principal and 4 counselors at each high school in the VSD school district to operate the school.? I have had 5 children go through the VSD school system and frankly saw a very poor effort from several of the administrators, and counselors.. One counselor even went so far to say you are lucky, we are basically glorified baby sitters. We also found poor communication and a lack of response to phone calls.. The reason cited most of the time was we were out of the building and we were short staffed...

Now these high schools only have about 1000 to 1200 kids... When I graduated from high school we had that many in just two classes and we had one Principal and a vice principal and a counselor.....I would think the vast majority of the school budget is salaries, maybe 98%.... for both teachers and Administrators,...So my question really is what is so different from let’s say 2008 to 2013 at the same school. They have the same if not less teachers, they have fewer programs, extracurricular but they have the same amount of administrators... Oh they have more security guards for sure...

If I compare 2008 to today I will pay about the same tax to the school district as I did then, but here is the caviat, My house is worth 28% less today which means as property Values continues to grow we'll be hit with much higher taxes in the coming years. Many folks don't bother to realize this prior to voting.. Save the kids is the mantra... What are we getting of value for the higher taxes we are paying? Are our kids getting a better education ? Are we graduating more? Are the test scores getting significantly better.. My guess is no.. So basically we passed a levy to keep the status quo of education the same ..

vanwadreamer — February 13, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- Can I get your input on these articles? How does this square with your forced population control approach?

**Germany's ageing population heading for massive decline**

Published: 18 Nov 09 16:24 CET | Print version

The Federal Statistic's Office on Wednesday forecast Germany's rapidly ageing population was likely to decline by 20 percent to around 65 million by 2060.

The precipitous drop will be accompanied by a dramatic shift in the amount of elderly people in Germany. Of the country's current 82 million inhabitants, some 20 percent are now aged 65. But in 2060, that percentage will increase to 33 percent.

“In particular the consistently low birthrate and growing life expectancy is leading to an ageing and shrinking of the population,” Federal Statistics Office President Roderich Egeler told a press conference.

He said the shrinking population will be the “most important political and social challenges in the coming decades” for Germany.

In the next 50 years, the numbers of Germans being born will continue to decrease while the numbers of deaths increase, more than tripling the current annual birth deficit.

**Germany’s Dilemma- The Other Side of Choice (2010)**

The distribution of Germany's population is seriously skewed. The population is ageing and there are few births. Lower-Saxony - one of the northern countries of the Republic of Germany - is badly in need of babies.

Germany's birth rate is 1.38 per woman, and a rate of 2.1 is required to replace the population. Even with an increased number of immigrants, a replacement rate seems impossible to achieve.

Politicians are worried, but not just them alone. The people of Lower Saxony are being wooed by the media to produce more babies. With the slogan 'Baby Boom for Lower Saxony - The most romantic night of the year', Radio Antenne, a popular radio station in the northern part of Germany, spills its ads over the airwaves morning, midday and night.

Low birth rates affect all areas of life. In 2009, many companies were looking in vain for candidates for apprenticeships. Approximately 10,000 apprenticeship positions remained unfilled because of lack of candidates. And this year does not look better.

This forebodes a future shortage of skilled workers to replace those who die or retire.

Encouraging pregnancies
Over the past two years, the German government has put a number of costly measures into effect to encourage couples become parents; increasing the number of kindergartens and after-school-care facilities, incentive pay for staying at home and having babies (up to €1,800 per month), plus an additional child allowance of €184 per child per month ... all of this with only slight success.

The babies that are born are not enough to replace the population.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Temple Lentz is on a roll. Check this out:

[link text][1]


manthou — February 13, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

if I understand it correctly, your assessed value as a percent of all the assessed property value in the county determines what boils down to your percent of the county's budget you're on the hook for. If the county's budget stayed roughly the same for 5 years, and all property depreciated at the same rate, you'd still pay the same, irregardless of your assessed value. The county's budget is the driving force behind your property taxes. That's the way I think it's supposed to work, but......

mrd — February 13, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.

**PRICELESS!** :))

It's great to see a smart humorous take on this after hearing Madore's praising (or razing) of democracy yesterday.

I'm using yesterday's meeting as a life/politics instructional video for my daughter.

Making lemonade from lemons! :)

If Madore/Republicans keep this type of governing up, no doubt we'll see a rise in Clark County registered Democrats.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I thought Obama hit one out of the park last night when he spoke of re financing your home at the current low rates if you have been current on your home but don't meet the new higher FICO scores required by banks now... The banks just don't want to giive any money away... He went on to say now isn't that something we can "ALL" get behind?? Send me a bill and I'll sign it.. I am waiting to see where this one goes... This would be or could be a huge boost to the economy more than anything else anyone could do today... Saving average HH 3K a year.. They could pay off other debts or even buy new things.. Thats spurring the economy...

vanwadreamer — February 13, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 11:25 am: I certainly hope so. I think there were a lot of Republicans (business persons) who testified yesterday AGAINST that useless declaration.

The video of the Clark County commission meeting yesterday should be mandatory viewing for every legislator in Oregon and Washington, as well. They need to see who spoke in favor of the bridge/LR, how many spoke in favor of it, and how Frick and Frack responded in spite of the testimony they heard.

It just kills me when people equate the defeat of Prop 1 with a vote against LR. It was a vote against that particular funding plan. Unfortunately, I know many pro-light rail supporters who voted against Prop 1 because they had another funding plan in mind. It backfired on them, unfortunately, as you can see from Madore's use of the Prop 1 voting map as "evidence" of overwhelming opposition to LR.

I am so glad that meeting is in the public record for posterity.

I thought it was funny: Temple Lentz writing that Steve Stuart is calling in sick for the next 20 months! If it were true, I can hardly blame him.

BTW, I did write all three commissioners afterward, expressing my displeasure with the weak rationale of their choice. Their choice was politically-motivated, pure and simple. Don't want to ruffle the feathers of their far, far, faaaaaaar right base.

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa @ 10:31 am: I really understand your frustration about what appears to be schools top heavy in administration. I served under my share of bad ones, but the majority are capable, committed and student-centered. Schools are reducing their administrators more and more in reality.

You might like to read about Michelle Rhee's non-profit called Students First. She takes on the sacred cows of teacher seniority and accountability.

When she was head of the WA DC schools, she tried to implement this salary schedule: For teachers willing to forego tenure and submit to an evaluation based on performance, they could earn up to $120,000. For teachers who were unwilling to let go of their tenure safety net, the most they could ever earn was $60,000.

She left before this idea could be implemented because the union put up so much resistance.

Anyway, she has a lot of good reform ideas for education management. I like her. She is also married to Kevin Johnson, mayor of Sacramento and former NBA star. :)

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 13, 2013 at 1:05 p.m.

The thing I find really amazing is that "The King of Clark County" doesn't understand that his little resolution holds NO power over anything. He has no right or responsibility over the CRC or LRT in this County. None of them do. So they can sit there and scream NO TOLLS all they want but at the end of the day, they are powerless to control any more than their own bodily functions.

If people really want their voices heard on the CRC or LRT, they need to be talking to their State Representatives. They are the ones with the power.

Also, now we have King David saying he's going to decide who is going to run Vancouver because he's going to drop some serious coin into the coffers of whoever he chooses to win.

hawkeye — February 13, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 13, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.

I can see your point about infrastructure raising property values but shouldn't it be something "good" in order to raise values? I'm not too sure light rail qualifies.

hawkeye — February 13, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just looked at MSN news and at TDN.COM they are reporting that 40 Washington mayors are calling for a motor vehicle excise tax increase of 1.5% also to increase the vehicle tax from 20.00 to 40.00.This should go over good with the looming bridge tolls.And our mayor was one of the signers.

timerick — February 13, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Looks like David Madore will be helping someone run against Tim Leavitt. I do not think a Madore candidate will do as well in Vancouver as they do in Clark County, but the No Tolls people are hopping mad at him for shining them on.

hawkeye: Didn't you think Madore's demeanor in the interview he gave to Lou B is unusually manic for Madore? Kind of silly and fakey self-deprecating. I think he is starting to really dig the attention and limelight. Especially when the press keeps clamoring for this new politico "King Maker."

He wrote me back today and here is what he said:

"Thank you for taking the time to contact me with your position on the CRC.

I respect your position and I support a new 3rd and 4th bridge, without light rail, so we can save on the cost and avoid tolls.

Best regards.

Commissioner David Madore"

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I thought Obama hit one out of the park last night when he spoke of re financing your home at the current low rates if you have been current on your home but don't meet the new higher FICO scores required by banks now...*

It's a great idea vanwa and not the first time this President has put it on the table.

Did someone put the basement in warp drive again without telling me?

vanwa, not only are you agreeing with Obama on policy for the first time, (@ least as far I know) but you're praising his ideas!

I Quote; *I thought Obama hit one out of the park last night*

Whatever has happened to you in this regard...embrace it!

If it's booze, pills, smoke, whatever, keep it up because they're working.

If it's you kinda coming around on this idea, (to include praising Obama) without any substance use that's cool also.

Having said's always nice to have a little smo...anyway.

(all meant to be good natured vanwa, that aspect is sometimes lost in conversation and I appreciate your sense of humor.)

But if you start agreeing with Nancy Pelosi I'll call n ambulance!

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A coupla of comments FWIW-

The Sec of Defense (offense) is now pushing for medals to be awarded for the "pilots" of drones. Hhmmmm... Guess the "war on terror" will never end. Imagine the US officially declaring peace, huh? A novel approach seeing how we've been fighting some frigging war or another for over 70 years, and it's eating a hell of hole in our finances. Oh well, no bother.

The R's, not to be daunted by public opinion, are pushing for drug testing for welfare recipients in states where they control the legislature. Their actions have been challenged and overturned by a Federal Appeals court each time in states where they've done so, but they march on. For budget cutting, cost saving wannabees, they'll waste fortunes passing legislation that won't pass muster.

mrd — February 13, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It looks like there were five of us who watched the hearing yesterday. This is what Josephine Funes Wentzel [aka Jaye Mitchell] saw:

Josephine Funes Wentzel · Top Commenter

For the record "majority of folks in attendance who opposed it were UNION MEMBERS who didn't speak (their leaders from Olympia did)....
Reply · 5 · Like
· Follow Post · Yesterday at 4:19am

J Wentzel wouldn't misrepresent the truth, would she?

Liked this comment:

Betty Sue Morris · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
Kevin VanGelder - the county budget Isn't a part of this project. It's true that those who cross the bridge daily will be effected. But the county corporate body has no financial responsibility for this project at all.
Reply · 2 · Like · 19 hours ago

langenthal — February 13, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Strictly opinion as I don't know this guy. Just formed from watching interviews, his rhetoric and time in office.

I really think DM could care less about tolls, and light rail for that matter.

This guy is using his new public position as a stepping stone to seek higher office. Pure & simple. I know that's not a new revelation, but I think his new position is just that. A position.

It's why he can't be bothered working too much and brings his own people in. No motivation accept to work what perks of power and influence this position brings in order to shape a "better tomorrow" in a future election. That's hard to do sitting behind a desk or doing the peoples business.

It's a numbers, power and money game at this point.

To truly be a successful and meaningful conservative king, he needs to have a strong social conservative coalition behind him. He seems to have that to some degree. He'll get the Vancouver church vote.

But he also needs to use business owners who have a stake in our community as a source of funding, power and recognition.

Yesterday he blew it big time. These were well thought of successful business people who based their views on the needs of local business, both now and in the future and articulated them more than well.

Also the majority of citizens testifying favored current CRC measures to include light rail.

I'm sure investors in local enterprises both large and small are doing more than talking amongst themselves today.

Every successful politician needs a war chest. In the future many won't open their pocketbooks for this guy.

And that's a good thing.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, sorry for late answer re pop control. Work interfered, ya know. I don't have the answers either to the issue. I just think it's an issue. Do I agree with forced sterilization and one baby like China does? Not really. And yes, I know we have a negative birth rate over in Deutschland. Among the Germans, not the population, however. Somewhat of a difference. Birth rates differ sharply between groups and between countries. Some have learned, some reproduce abundantly. Eventually we are running out of water, food, resources, land, you name it. How can we slow it down? Education. Empower women. An educated woman who can make money will not need to rely on ten kids to support her in old age. This seems to be the approach now taken in what we refer to as third world countries. Break old stereotypes and gender roles. Break free of religious taboos against birth control and role of women.

Just my take on it, I don't have the answers.

luvithere — February 13, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And as far as DM goes. Now I find him just amusing. Milke is looking like a puppet more and more, Stuart is distancing himself, and ye olde Davy is basking in the glory and burning brightly. AND ignoring people right on front of him. This emperor really got no clothes. He'll learn.

luvithere — February 13, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I belong to a group of business people that we have been meeting since the early 70's.I am a small bump as compared to most of these guys.But I was one of the first to have joined this group.The list is quite impressive as it pertains to the who and who in our county.And I mean lots of money and power.Car dealerships,Attorneys,Engineers,almost everyone that has started or owned a business in the last 70 years.We have had every one from the Attorney General on down want to speak to our group.Without any doubt these people do not want light rail and they do not want our mayor to win again.Is Madore the answer,I do not know.But these guys want change.And they have not seen anything from anyone in the last several years that would change any thing.Most of these people employ people that make a very good living.Well above most.We need good things to come from those that we elect.They need to do what is best for all of us us that want to live and prosper here in our county.We have not seen this for a number of years.I do not think this is a Dem or a Repub thing I think it is a thing that we all want.It is time to quit taking sides and start working for what is best for all of us.Good is good it does not make any difference where it comes from.

timerick — February 13, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


gotta agree w/you. it's not rep vs. dem, it's more primal now...more good vs. evil.

and fwiw, there's no good= dem or good=rep here. either you're your invested in serving the voters or you're not.

unfortunately, the column virtually *all* pol's, local, state and federal, fall into is 'self-seving', not "of the people, by the people".

DeeLittle — February 13, 2013 at 10:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- I understand population issues are complex, and your ideas are good ones.

It's "forced sterilization"I have a problem with. As a starting point in conversation we should debunk the obvious.

Don't you think empowering Congress to decide and dictate the number of offspring each American woman produces is ridiculous as well as demeaning?

I mean what penalty would big brother place on a woman in violation of childbearing law?

Take the child? Imprison the woman? Levy fines? Confiscate property?

As much as we all love roger, *"There are too many people, and voluntary methods don't work. We need a limit - one or two children and you're done."* doesn't cut it imo. Just calling it the way I see it.

It's kind of like a reverse RW contraception war on steroids.:)

It's a willingness to bend democracy and the rules to enforce one's narrow ideology that I take exception with.

Kinda like DM and his band of Noly Tollers.

nailingit — February 13, 2013 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So now big brother IS all around us. Trimet has installed cameras with audio so they can not only watch you but listen to what you are saying.

hawkeye — February 13, 2013 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I had to register my Jeep yesterday. When I went to the DEQ the changes were a bit disconcerting. First you don't need to have your gas cap checked for leak-down. Why not?? They couldn't tell me why not and they couldn't answer any of my other technical questions.

The paperwork does not show whether you are high or low on pollutants. If you don't pass how will the mechanic know what to look for?? I know he can re-test you, but it will cost you more just to do that.

All their equipment appeared to be new. What the hell was wrong with the old stuff?? You could at least read the computer instructions and see the tach. The tester had to reset his computer twice before he could take a reading. One good thing is they were friendlier than the last bunch. Those old workers were downright rude.

Now on to the DMV. While I liked the new way of obtaining my tag I was a little taken aback because the drive-up wasn't opened. The worker at the counter was pleasant to a point. When I tried to ask a few questions she clammed up and got a little pissy with me.

I have asked any state worker why my two wheel drive Jeep is still considered a SUV. I get better mileage than most of the new ones on the road and it won't go off road. Some one sits in their tiny office (with no windows no doubt) and is allowed to decree that any thing named JEEP is a SUV I betcha.

On the way out my wife told me that the state doesn't do driving tests. The state farmed that out apparently. Where in HELL is our money going to anyway??? If the private drivers ed companies are now testing drivers then I contend that they are not doing their job very well. It shows by the poor driving habits shown around here.

JohnCasey — February 14, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, in a statement you made the other day, you said this -

*"""Unfortunately, I know many pro-light rail supporters who voted against Prop 1 because they had another funding plan in mind."""*

Care to share how many that "Many pro-light-rail supporters" number is??? Are we talking a handful? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"It just kills me when people equate the defeat of Prop 1 with a vote against LR. It was a vote against that particular funding plan."*

manthou — February 13, 2013 at 12:12 p.m.

The vote against that particular funding plan was a message sent to the backers of the project that we ARE concerned with the costs of light rail to their livelihood, manthou. This bust of a project is going to greatly impact not only the folks in the immediate area, but to the entire county as well. MAX has not proven itself to be something which has improved the economic climate (or the increase in criminal activity to the region which has put a financial burden on Clackamas County Sheriff's Office) to Portland, Beaverton, Hillsboro, Clackamas OR Gresham. It's no wonder the Clackamas County Commissioners have tried to stop the Milwaukie line from entering ClackCo.

So what makes anybody think MAX to Clark College is going to improve the downtown economic climate??? MAX in downtown Portland has caused confusion, increased congestion, overhead line eyesores, frustration when the trains cannot move due to accidents/power outages/inclement weather. The delay to riders who have chosen MAX over driving is bad enough and when these issues occur, it is usually increased by one or two hours.

You'd better believe the defeat of Prop 1 was an attempt by the majority of the voters was most definitely a vote against light rail. We haven't been able to vote ON a measure regarding light rail since the 90's and we definitely should have...but of course, the backers of light rail to Vancouver have done an excellent, underhanded job to prevent such an election till *AFTER* they made the decision to go forward WITH that bridge design and presenting it to the FTA which includes bringing a failing transit entity to our state...condemning our county to a painful and destructive economic death.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see no backers of light rail could come up with any response to my comment on February 12, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. So now I have another question which I would love to have anybody answer. Here goes -

Could anybody provide any direct link to any...yes ANY report which shows directly, any large-scale corporation which has started OR moved their business near the vicinity of any MAX light rail line in order to take advantage of such services?

I'd truly like to be able to read such articles.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — February 14, 2013 at 5:50 a.m

I must say I came across the same nasty attitude at the post office sorting building yesterday.

Son ordered tea from the east coast, was to be delivered on the 9th by UPS. The company shipped it by USPS instead. (since we have a P.O. Box instead of a mail box due to having mail stolen from our mailbox here at home yrs ago) It was dinged as undeliverable, and was rerouted to be forwarded to our P.O. Box.
Still wasn't in our box yesterday afternoon, so we went to the sorting office and was told it will be held for 1 week before someone "gets around putting a little yellow forward sticker" on it and take it back to the office that houses our P.O. Box for delivery.
Wow, it takes someone a week to slap a forward sticker on a package, put it on a mail truck, drive from 136th to Hearthwood P.O. deliver and place it in the box all within about a mile.

and they wonder why the P.O. is going broke.

ELISI — February 14, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**FreedomWorks Made Video of Fake Giant Panda Having Sex With Fake Hillary Clinton**

*The investigation at the influential tea party group could get weird.*

Some FreedomWorks staffers worried last year about a promotional video created ahead of FreePAC, a FreedomWorks conference held on July 26, 2012, where thousands of conservative grassroots activists nearly filled the American Airlines Center in Dallas to hear from **tea party favorites, including Glenn Beck and Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah)**. The short film hailing FreedomWorks was intended to play on the large video screens inside the arena.

In one segment of the film, according to a former official who saw it, Brandon is seen waking from a nap at his desk. In what appears to be a dream or a nightmare, he wanders down a hallway and spots a giant panda on its knees with its head in the lap of a seated Hillary Clinton and apparently performing oral sex on the then-secretary of state. Two female interns at FreedomWorks were recruited to play the panda and Clinton. One intern wore a Hillary Clinton mask. The other wore a giant panda suit that FreedomWorks had used at protests to denounce progressives as panderers. (See here, here, and here.) Placing the panda in the video, a former FreedomWorks staffer says, was "an inside joke."

Another FreedomWorks staffer who worked there at the time confirms that "Yes, this video was created."


Armey says he didn't became aware of the film until months later: "I heard they had made an obscene video mocking Hillary Clinton." He says he was told the video showed Clinton having sex with an intern. "I asked another [FreedomWorks] guy if he had seen it," Armey recalls. "He said, 'I heard about it. I was traveling at the time. It was shown around the office.'" Armey adds, "There was a concern that this kind of behavior could land you in court. I was shocked at the ugly and bad taste."


The ongoing internal investigation, one former staffer notes, could end badly for FreedomWorks, which for years has been a powerhouse organization of the right. "I think the whole thing will implode," this person says, "and it will be destroyed out of mismanagement and hubris."

Read more @

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

For all your warm-weather, sun worshipers with all your electronic might take the time out to read this article. It's definitely an eye opener:

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Long overdue to put this old goat out to pasture?*

**Pat Robertson Claims Islam Is 'Demonic' And 'Not A Religion' But An Economic System (VIDEO)**

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Another wake up call to baggers. How many will it take?*

**Study Confirms Tea Party Was Created by Big Tobacco and Billionaire Koch Brothers**

A new academic study confirms that front groups with longstanding ties to the tobacco industry and the billionaire Koch brothers planned the formation of the Tea Party movement more than a decade before it exploded onto the U.S. political scene.

Far from a genuine grassroots uprising, this astroturf effort was curated by wealthy industrialists years in advance. Many of the anti-science operatives who defended cigarettes are currently deploying their tobacco-inspired playbook internationally to evade accountability for the fossil fuel industry's role in driving climate disruption.


The common public understanding of the origins of the Tea Party is that it is a popular grassroots uprising that began with anti-tax protests in 2009.

However, the Quarterback study reveals that in 2002, the Kochs and tobacco-backed CSE designed and made public the first Tea Party Movement website under the web address Here's a screenshot of the archived U.S. Tea Party site, as it appeared online on Sept. 13, 2002:

CSE describes the U.S. Tea Party site, "In 2002, our U.S. Tea Party is a national event, hosted continuously online, and open to all Americans who feel our taxes are too high and the tax code is too complicated." The site features a "Patriot Guest book" where supporters can write a message of support for CSE and the U.S. Tea Party movement.

Sometime around September 2011, the U.S. Tea Party site was taken offline. According to the DNS registry, the web address is currently owned by Freedomworks.


**Finally, this report might serve as a wake-up call to some people in the Tea Party itself, who would find it a little disturbing that the "grassroots" movement they are so emotionally attached to, is in fact a pawn created by billionaires and large corporations with little interest in fighting for the rights of the common person, but instead using the common person to fight for their own unfettered profits.**

Read more @

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

G'morning, goldie: Appreciate the Nasa article on solar storms. We are all connected in this universe....

As to the light rail debate: I always admired your research on this emotional topic and realize we are on opposite sides of the issue for the most part, although there is always a way to find some common ground.

I will not waste space or time trying to re-play my position ad nauseam. For one thing, I truly believe that this project, including light rail, is a done deal and anything I say makes no difference. Not that we should shut up about our passion, mind you, but the unproductive complaining can be tiring for me.

My statement about many pro LR folks voting against Prop 1 came from knowledge I gained at our biggest neighborhood association meeting in years when we invited candidates to come in before the November election. While I suppose people could have been posturing (people can say one thing and do another), I was surprised to hear how many voted no, thinking they would be forcing another funding option. Annette Cleveland (now state senator) indicated that she may have actually done the same.

If you look at how folks voted on Prop 1, it passed in the downtown neighborhoods.

Anecdotally I do know this: the ONLY property we own that has skyrocketed in value while the others continue to languish is the piece we own on the proposed LR line in downtown Vancouver. It is not ever going to make us rich, but the amount of new construction and upgrades being done on that small section of line by others is encouraging.

Opposition to the CRC and light rail makes Clark County look like a group of backwoods gomers to folks who understand the big picture or who have lived lives in other parts of the country where tolling to pay for critical transportation projects has been a fact of life.

I do NOT think Clark County is populated by backwoods gomers, but I do think there is a minority of tea party types who have the moderates shaking in fear. That is what caused Tim Leavitt to snag their votes with his no tolls shell game and this is what caused David Madore and Tom Mielke to ignore the overwhelming voices opposed to their silly resolution. It is what caused the BG school levies to fail.

Hey, it's all part of the political process, but I want to live in a city that supports public transportation projects that connect cities, business and citizens, not divides them.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I am very glad to see you increase your participation here because I think your experience as a long-time downtown small business brings lots of weight to the discussion.

Downtown and Uptown areas have seen many new businesses in the past couple of years who actually support the CRC and light rail. However, I know that many old timers, those healthy businesses like yours that have anchored the downtown for years, do not feel the same.

When we travel in small circles, we do not get the opportunity to hear other points of view so keep posting because I, for one, would like to hear more.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Opposition to the CRC and light rail makes Clark County look like a group of backwoods gomers to folks who understand the big picture or who have lived lives in other parts of the country where tolling to pay for critical transportation projects has been a fact of life. - manthou — February 14, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.

I disagree. (don't remember the city names around Portland, so this is fuzzy & general). There have been two areas the Ptlnd mayor tried to push light rail into, and they rebelled. Other areas have seen LR fail. It did this in Los Angeles. The only place it actually works, and where it's used, is densly-populated, packed-in areas like Chicago and New York.

It just doesn't pencil out for our situation.

Darkstar — February 14, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Darkstar: I think there was opposition to a trolley to Lake Oswego (no trolley for now) and folks wanting to stop the light rail line construction, already in progress, from Portland to Milwaukie (green light go for that, in spite of the opposition).

In the early 70's, there was successful citizen opposition against the proposed Mt. Hood freeway that would have sliced through our home in SE Portland at the time. There is no Mt. Hood freeway and that part of SE Portland (Division and E 26th) is teeming with new business life.


Lou B: Glad you used your veteran journalist skills to encourage Mr. Madore to answer your self-grade question in the new video posted. It is interesting to me that he appears to be self-aware that his zeal can get in the way of his ability to be objective and listen to all.

He rejected the majority of opinion expressed at Tuesday's meeting, so he does have a way to go in moderating his personal agenda.

At least he is open to meeting with the local press, rather than running away. Good thing. Keep the questions coming because his answers will help me reconcile his words with his actions.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

I think at this point David is afraid not to be at Lou's beck and call but I think in the near future (after he crashes and burns) he will avoid Lou like the plague or will sidestep his questions with a laugh and a smile. He's quite good at that. I still don't trust him, he's a one trick pony.

hawkeye — February 14, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — February 13, 2013 at 9:20 p.m.

I'm not a business owner either large or small. Partnered a bit in the distant past, but nothing near the longevity of a business like yours which has contributed to our community. My point being your voice should carry more weight than mine.

It's how I feel about those who depend on public transportation to maintain a quality of life. Their voices should be heard above those who's only interest is pinching pennies while denouncing government, and liberals whose only interest is to support collectivist government. :)

It's how I feel about all business owners who will be impacted, your voices should be heard above most, and I believe have been heard.

I watched several prominent business owners this last meeting whose LR view's differ from yours. I hope you have spoken to leaders about this as you articulate your stance well. I didn't hear anything substantive from business owners who are in opposition.

*I do not think this is a Dem or a Repub thing I think it is a thing that we all want.*

I don't think this matter should be, but from the outside looking in it appears that way. I agree with manthou's assessment of a small band of tea party types to be the driving force opposing light rail.

One only has to view Face Book or watch a meeting to assess this. By and large it's the conservative anti government no tax over 60 crowd who are most vocal about this.

They do your cause no favors. People look at this group as being small minded and anti progress to the point it stifles our community's growth. I was proud of my community for funding education (although I'm glad I don't live in Battleground) but was actually worried these basic measures would not pass, in large part due to this radical political faction resident's are burdened with..

timerick I appreciate your inside view as it's caused me to delve a bit further into this subject. Again I wish the best for your business and as I've said before, maybe your projections (and others) are wrong and your business will be fine.

DM has to know LR can't be stopped. To lead people on to think otherwise...

I think those opposed to light rail need to hold some feet to the fire and demand a factual narrative as to how recent actions will prevent light rail from coming to Vancouver.

I really think many are being hoodwinked.

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I, too, think that a time will come when Mr. Madore will refuse to talk with The Columbian or any journalist, unless it is a hand-picked one who works for his Couv dot com website.

In the meantime, he seems to be open. He may not realize that his words already contradict his actions. He does not have the skill to dodge those pointed questions with the skill that career politicians have, so I understand why The Columbian is drooling over this opportunity to grill a newbie before he wakes up and shuts the transparency door.

I think Madore's downfall will be when he violates policy and the law. He may already have done that by "conspiring" with his pet puppet Mielke behind the scenes. No way of knowing because he will never cop to that. :)

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I still don't trust him, he's a one trick pony.

hawkeye — February 14, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.

He's a one trick pony with a herd of horses behind him with ambition steering the wagon.

This guy is looking to the future.

Buyer beware!

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for your comments... It wasn't the booze but being in my office allday without ever going outside...I think my brain was fried after a long day..LOL Not Smoke fried either...

BTW I thought about that idea back in 08 when the housing market was going in the toilet and people were becoming upside down on their mortgages... Really, many people bought there homes at the height of the market and now by no fault of there own they are terribly upside down.. Why not let folks who have "NEVER" been late on the monthly payment like in the last year be able to re fi at these low rates....The banks are still making 1 t0 1.5% maybe not the 5, 6 or even 8% that they are now but we also bailed there A$$$es out...

I am not opposed either to give praise when there is actually an idea worth fighting and moving forward on...Putting a plan together for this is rather easy too...

If you ever here me praising MS Pelosi please send that Bamulance.... I would be NUTS.. She is looking more like that Phyillis Diller woman all the time...

Do you meet with these people at the Quay ever??? for like Lunch/ The business folks I meet with are probably 70-30 for the new bridge and 90-10 for it without light rail...We have a good mix of politics as well... We talk about how it will impact the southern ride through Portland. Oregon will if this bridge is built widen I-5 through downtown Portland... The Governor sees that as an issue that needs resolving and I think he will lay the groundwork if both states and the Feds move forward on this project..

vanwadreamer — February 14, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Republican Leaders Worry Their Party Could Divide in Two**

*As Rand Paul mulls a presidential campaign, GOP frets over impact of disaffected voters and shifting coalitions. Democrats should worry, too.*

Republicans worry that Rand Paul or a candidate like him will mount a third-party presidential campaign that divides the GOP. At least one leading Democrat says his party should also worry about disaffected voters and the rise of third and even fourth parties.

Inside the cozy enclaves of GOP bonhomie—hunkered at the tables of see-and-be-seen Washington restaurants—Republican leaders are sourly predicting a party-busting independent presidential bid by a tea-party challenger, like Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., in 2016.

To them, the GOP apocalypse looms larger than most realize. Dueling State of the Union rebuttals and Karl Rove’s assault on right-wing candidates are mere symptoms of an existential crisis that is giving the sturdiest Republicans heartburn.

And yet, the heart of the matter extends beyond the GOP. My conversations this week with two Republican officials, along with a Democratic strategist's timely memo, reflect a growing school of thought in Washington that social change and a disillusioned electorate threaten the entire two-party system.

Read more @

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa-*Really, many people bought there homes at the height of the market and now by no fault of there own they are terribly upside down.. Why not let folks who have "NEVER" been late on the monthly payment like in the last year be able to re fi at these low rates*

I'm with you vanwa. God knows taxpayers have bent over backwards for these guys. The public at large should get something in return.

Short of public executions this would work well. :)

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, first of all...good mornin' to you as well. Glad the NASA link was useful.

You still haven't answered my question as to the number of pro-light rail supporters who voted against Prop 1. Instead, you're telling me a general statement about pro-light rail supporters who voted *for* the proposition that failed. That doesn't tell me a lot. Saying that a neighborhood association meeting was your biggest in years doesn't tell me a whole heck of a lot either. No numbers given. Still leaves skepticism if you look at it from a different standpoint.

It appears those who support the light rail, claim the intent that it will bring in much-needed progress and that opposing it, we are stifling progress. That is not the case in my opinion.

It is my opinion that this bridge project is not the location for light rail...never has been and never will be. Does that mean we shouldn't have light rail? Well...not currently. The economic future of Clark County sucks at this time. We're becoming the sleeper community of Portland, living in Portland's shadow. So why bring in the headaches of TriMet when we have our own economic migraine???

And Manthou...we *were* undermined by the promoters of the current CRC project...we, being the taxpayers and commuters of Clark County. Now because there are more voices in opposition, some in government positions...we're backwoods gomers??? Madore has brought jobs to Clark quite successful and has the intent of bringing is he backwoods???

It isn't just about your downtown neighborhood who will be affected. Downtown Vancouver is but a small section of our county...a somewhat neglected corner so to speak. It's about the entire county...and we've been bamboozled by not only Royce Pollard and his ilk, but by those who have had direct ties to the planning and preparation of the crossing project at it's current status.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal;=PLAE2D4DB7EE7131A7

Thought to inject some levity.

Rickles rates in my top 5 for all time funny guys.

That might explain why I'm a little messed up. Anyway...

Don roasts Hollywood's elite, to include today's leading Republican chairperson!

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I do agree with you on this point, goldie: The CRC is not about our little corner of the world. It is about a major transportation route that connects three countries.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Drive-by comment*

Some say Edison was a thief and Ford a Nazi

Drift — February 14, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal are right. It is about the Corridor of the Future and in the case of I-5 from Canada to Mexico, in the Vancouver/Portland area, it has a bypass route already...also known as I-205. Not much can be done to improve I-5 through the heart of Portland...hence the need for I-205. Improvements could be made on I-205 including an additional lane from the area of 63rd Street up to 134th Street, both directions (I'm still trying to figure why they narrowed it down to two lanes in that section. Now, bridges would have to be rebuilt...another original planning faux pas). That alone would improve freight mobility through the area as well as commuter mobility and would be a great bypass route for the trucks.

Not much can be done about the T-Curves and light rail, so TriMet had extended light rail to Clackamas. Currently, they're extending it into Milwaukie, thinking it will improve congestion there...and they have strong opposition in that area.

Anybody who takes I-205 through the Clackamas route to I-5 will tell you...there's been no improvement. And how long has light rail been going down in Clackamas??? Near Airport Way, it's convenient for air travelers but commuters still have a headache when it comes to parking and riding MAX.

So please tell me would MAX improve downtown Vancouver? I'm still trying to get straight answers from those who support it...haven't seen any yet which are backed by fact.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

and manthou...if you don't have actual numbers regarding the neighborhood attendance or those who support light rail who voted down the proposition, don't feel bad. The promoters of MAX to Vancouver don't have actual numbers either. Just guestimations...and that was my point.

Propaganda is an ugly concept which is usually littered with assumptions based on the projections of those attempting to sell their wares. Facts outweigh assumptions and nine times out of ten, assumptions put people in the hot seat...

...and NOBODY is exempt.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, goldie. For goodness sake. My opinion was based on my observations and conversations with voters and candidates at a neighborhood meeting. I still stand by my view that many of the NO votes on Prop 1 came from pro light rail citizens.

Why, oh why do you have to ruin what could be civil discourse by accusing me of propaganda to start a fight?

Damn. I never learn with you.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ahhh, but you see Manthou, I wasn't accusing you of propaganda. If you go back and re-read my comment, you would see that the focus of my comment was by those who are attempting to sell their wares. Due to the confusion, the lack of factual data and flourishing falsification of documentation by those who mislead the masses into thinking something would be good for them, the promoters have duped the people...blindsided them into believing the sales pitch.

I've attended enough of these meetings to know that when I went in, I was greatly opposed to the current project. I observed the "sell job" by these professionals as they take the people into their "lair," convince them to provide their input of concern...not opposition (oh no...they don't like to use the word opposition. That's taboo), thus diluting the reason why we attended in the first place...even using our comments of concern which were still an opposition, manipulating them into the mind control game to use to the public...misleading the community into thinking there's more people who support the project than there actually is. It's happened at every single meeting I've ever witnessed, whether it be in person, online, on television or whatever.

Vanwadreamer made a good point to Timrick at 10:49am when they said "The business folks I meet with are probably 70-30 for the new bridge and 90-10 for it without light rail..."

As I've said. I'm all for the bridges to be replaced in order to be more effective not only for the commuters, but for river traffic as well. Light rail is not necessary...probably won't be for the next 20 years or so since C-Tran hasn't promoted that fact in their 20-year plan, so why should we promote MAX for a community that won't need it probably for another 20 years...that's 20 years of debts.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

correction to 12:41 pm comment...

C-Tran hasn't promoted light rail in their 20-year plan other than a connection to the Fort Vancouver Way LRT transit station dead end. They have promoted BUS RAPID TRANSIT...still a viable solution to the I-5 Bridge Replacement.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some say Edison was a thief and Ford a Nazi

Drift — February 14, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.

I don't think Ford was a Nazi but Edison WAS a thief. Tesla was the brains of that outfit until Edison reneged on their deal.

hawkeye — February 14, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Nailingit: I was at a meeting this morning we talked about the CRC.The overwhelming thought was yes we do need a new bridge.And I agree about 70% do not want light rail.The overriding cost being the biggest factor.I think if it could come closer to paying for its self it may go over bigger.Also the bridge engineer that just moved the Sellwood bridge was there.I asked him about the 116ft. height that is now on the table.He said that do to political pressure the Coast Guard will most likly cave in to the height.I was a little disapointed to hear that.As I do have a concern about the companys that need better clearance.Also I think light rail may have had more support if it was going to the park and rides up I5.But from what I have read that is not in the picture.Going to Clark makes no sence to me at all.I just do not see the volume of riders it needs to work.Also I have not read anywhere about Oregon wanting to improve the traffic flow from Fremont on south.If it is true and they are working on that then that bye itself would relieve 80% of the congestion on I5 that we have now.Also did you read about the tax's that 40 of our mayors in Washington are proposing? What do you guys think about that.

timerick — February 14, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A bit of information:

I-5 daily crossing traffic - (according to RTC)
2005 - 132,603, 2006 - 131,916; 2007 - 130,389; 2008 - 126,278;
2009 - 125,436; 2010 - 126,691; 2011 - 128,208

If you take a look at the chart near the bottom of the page on the link below, you will find there is an overall decline of traffic of both bridges at a 2.7% drop since 2004. That's 7 years on the table, showing a drop in traffic.

**Columbia River Crossing Final Environmental Impact Statement quotes:**

*Project Purpose* -The purpose of the proposed action is to improve I-5 corridor mobility by addressing present and future travel demand and mobility needs in the CRC Bridge Influence Area (BIA). The BIA extends from approximately Columbia Boulevard in the south to SR 500 in the north (Exhibit 1.3-1). Relative to the No-Build Alternative, the proposed action is intended to achieve the following objectives:

a) improve travel safety and traffic operations on the I-5 crossing’s bridges and associated interchanges;
b) improve connectivity, reliability, travel times, and operations of public transportation modal alternatives in the BIA;
c) improve highway freight mobility and address interstate travel and commerce needs in the BIA; and d) improve the I-5 river crossing’s
structural integrity (seismic stability).

*Project need* - Growing travel demand and congestion: Existing travel demand exceeds capacity in the I-5 Columbia River crossing and associated interchanges. This corridor experiences heavy congestion and delay lasting 4 to 6 hours daily during the morning and afternoon peak travel periods and when traffic accidents, vehicle breakdowns, or bridge lifts occur. Due to excess travel demand and congestion in the I-5 bridge corridor, many trips take the longer, alternative I-205 route across the river. Spillover traffic from I-5 onto parallel arterials such as Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Interstate Avenue increases local congestion. In 2005, the two crossings carried 280,000 vehicle trips across the Columbia River daily. Daily traffic demand over the I-5 crossing is projected to increase by more than 35 percent during the next 20 years, with stop-and-go conditions increasing to approximately 15 hours daily if no improvements are made.

Wait a second..."Daily traffic demand over the I-5 Crossing is projected to increase by more than 35% during the next 20 years????

Where do they get these figures??? In the past 20 years, I-5 has only seen an increase of 27,000 vehicles. 35% of 128,208 is over 40,000. Yet another projection which doesn't reflect history.


Funny how freight mobility is a lower priority on the list while in the same breath it's supposed to be a focus of the Corridor of the Future, connecting US to Canada and Mexico. Of course, public transportation seems to be a higher priority.

double sigh...

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Also did you read about the tax's that 40 of our mayors in Washington are proposing? What do you guys think about that.*

timerick — February 14, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.

timerick- I think since so many mayors have signed on to this it's worth a look. Jim Moeller gave a thoughtful reply on the FB side.

**Jim Moeller** · Top Commenter

Everyone loves the projects, just no one likes to pay for them! Over the past 8 years, the Democrats boldly decided to fund projects (big and small) around the state as part of getting Washington working again and to position ourselves for the new world economy. With 5 cents and another 9 cents per gallon we bonded that money for 30 years (with the approval of the voters) and started building. We built roads and bridges throughout Clark County and Washington with safety and freight mobility first and congestion relief last. Over 400 projects have nearly been completed around Washington, on-time and under budget.

But now we are done and if we want to do any more projects, we will need more money to do it. Thank goodness the mayor's of this great state recognize that and want to continue to build ONE Washington were we all benefit because we all share the costs.

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — February 14, 2013 at 5:50 a.m.,

I think you left a question out. The last time I took one of my vehicles in for testing, I was told they were phasing this requirement ut over the next few years. So why the need for new equipment?

roger — February 14, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I may have a clue as to why the decrease since that is kinda in my specialty....What happend from 08- to today.. We've had a recession. With that being said job loss most likely created the biggest chunk of that decline in Bridge Vehicle crossings.... Another reason was the price of gas, People weren't just jumping in their vehicles to cross the river. Another reason was less crossing by companies that went out of business and less crossing by businesses in order to save money....All this added up to a decline in Vehicle crossings... As our economy builds back up we will see an increase in vehicle bridge crossings. On top of that we will continue to grow our NW population which will natuarally increase that bridge traffic...

I don't know either where they get the 35% vehicle increase over the next 20 years but maybe there using some model they haven't shared with us yet....They must have one right??


There are several other Tax increases on the table with our legislators.. B&O; being one and the WA state dept of Revenue another that could impact me by a couple percent of my bottom line...

vanwadreamer — February 14, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 1:35: Interesting what the Sellwood bridge engineer shared with you this afternoon about the Coast Guard eventually caving to political pressure about bridge height.

You know, the original light rail proposal in Vancouver was designed to go north on Main Street all the way to Kiggins Bowl. They designed a Park and Ride at about 40th and Main. It was meant to eventually be extended to Salmon Creek Park and Ride (long after you and I are buried deep).

A couple of neighborhood associations went crazy and lobbied the businesses in Uptown Village. The CRC folks relented and re-booted the line to end at Clark County. There was a second brouhaha over whether the tracks would go on McLoughlin or E 17th. The latter was chosen because, as one local politician said, "Pride of ownership was more evident" on McLoughlin. In other words, run the tracks by the shacks, take down several run down rentals: no one will notice. :)

The School for the Blind is thrilled with the positioning of light rail near its facility for obvious reasons. Clark College hopes it will alleviate its massive parking problem. It would have made even better sense if the baseball team and stadium had not gone to Hillsboro.

I figure that this is the best CRC route they could hope for in the short run. Long term: who knows?

Keep us posted on those meetings. It will be interesting to see which businesses line up behind Mr. Leavitt. I predict Al Angelo and Elie Kassab are two for starters.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer: Fill me in on the B and O increase. We already absorbed a "temporary" hike in the service delivery area. I have not heard of it.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I answered my own question by digging a little. The temporary B and O tax increase on Service businesses from 1.5% to 1.8% expires in 2013.

Some legislators are asking that this temporary increase be extended, therefore it is not a tax increase.

Hmmmmm. Interesting ploy.

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 14, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.

A good idea of what might have been the case, vanwa...but if you take a look at the figures for traffic on I-205 over the course of the years you believe caused a decline in traffic, you will find it has been on the increase during the recession...up until 2011 where there was a slight drop. My thoughts...possibly because of a decline of businesses and population on the west side...more growth on the east side???

Seems to me Mr. Madore has taken note of that possibility...hence his push for the third bridge on the east side.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou/timerick...I don't think the USCG is in a hurry to give in, considering the magnitude of preventing oil rigs from being shipped down river, en route to the North Slope of Alaska. We're not talking about a miniscule operation, here. This company is also credited for constructing the Delta IV Rocket launch pad created for Boeing and was barged to Vandenburg, the towers for the aerial tram in Portland, also hydroelectric dam projects which includes gates, spillways and such...just to mention a few. These are LOCAL which could easily be with connections to other local/statewide and nationwide jobs. If they cannot move their product downstream due to high water levels and a bridge built too low, they will lose their clients which in turn will cause job losses, not in just one little sleeper town like Vancouver, but several.

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*"""The School for the Blind is thrilled with the positioning of light rail near its facility for obvious reasons. Clark College hopes it will alleviate its massive parking problem. It would have made even better sense if the baseball team and stadium had not gone to Hillsboro."""*

Oh for Pete's sake...are you serious? Now you speak for the School for the Blind??? They have a working bus stop right in front of their school, manthou. BRT would do just as good a job, if not better considering they have flexibility in their routes. As far as Clark College hoping it will alleviate the massive parking problem...**THAT is a bunch of BS and you know it!!!** The majority of the students are *NOT* coming from Portland! Light rail would not serve any purpose to the majority of the students. The faculty/staff parking has no issues. In fact...on any day during the week, I can point out dozens of empty faculty/staff parking spaces.

That kool-aid you're drinkin' must be room temperature by now!!!

goldenoldie — February 14, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 14, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.

RE: Your property on the proposed LRT line that skyrocketed in value this past year. It just might be something else. I'm nowhere near the line, and mine also climbed over $20K in about 15 months (per Zillow). Frankly, I don't like it - too reminiscent of 2005/2006; and then everything crashed down. But I spoke with a real estate broker I trust; his take is that we really didn't suffer as much here because our local banks did a better job working with people than in a lot of areas, and that our market is truly recovering. I guess we'll see.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Consider that there are many tens of thousands of us with another reason for opposing the CRC - We really don't feel like paying $6 or more per day to cross a bridge - just so we can have light rail come to downtown Vancouver. Most of the people I work with would rather do without a new bridge entirely. I think this is a little more than a bunch of moderates quaking because of a few tea baggers. This is more for reasons along the lines of people living over on the east side being tired of paying for the get rich schemes of the developers and their friends.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kindly read the attached Oregonian article that ran today - it's a short discussion on TriMet and their "gloom and doom" future that's staring them in the face.

"on Pickrell, chief economist at the U.S. Department of Transportation's Volpe Center in Cambridge, Mass., said TriMet is typical of many of the country's transit agencies. He said that like others, it is stuck with seemingly intractable budget problems, even as ridership grows and it takes federal grant money for new rail lines it doesn't have the money to operate. "

TriMet is blaming this on the driver's union. They say without a drastic cut in benefits they'll have to reduce service by 70% (63 bus routes) in the next 12 years.

Which in itself speaks volumes. When it comes to cutting, they'll get rid of the buses which go where most of the poor live rather than curtailing, much less getting rid of, the sacred cow called MAX.

So, those who want to say CRC opponents don't give a damn about the poor who depend on public transportation - try again. There are a few who make a lot of noise about empty buses on Fourth Plain, but most people opposed to the CRC want us to improve our bus service and rely on that instead. We just don't want anything to do with a transit system that has run up to over a billion dollars in the red.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — February 14, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.

I think a lot of banks have been actively refinancing - especially as of a couple of years ago when the Feds started grumbling about giving them money for this purpose. But consider this - that house someone bought in 2007/08 for over $300K isn't worth even $200K now. And there's a very good chance it won't be worth $300K again for a long, long time. Adjusting mortgage interest rates down won't fix this problem - they're still sinking money into a losing proposition. Really, there is only one fix for someone who isn't looking at spending the rest of their life in that house - walk, and wait for your credit to recover.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Henry Ford was a known Nazi sympathizer. But we also have a little story about the S.S. Saint Louis that leads directly to FDR himself.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.

Beside reading Jim Moeller's opinion, did you pay attention to Lew Waters' fact that we are currently tied with North Carolina for having the highest gas taxes in the country? Or his link to a Seattle Times article noting that Jim Moeller and friends want to introduce a bill to raise another $6 billion for transportation projects? (Fortunately for us, this will take a 2/3 passign vote in each house; something that is highly unlikely in the Senate.)

The problem with people like Jim Moeller is that they are committed to spending whatever it takes to build their utopian tomorrow, and don't give a damn about the impact on those of us paying the bill today. And yes, maybe we who object to this are penny pinchers - it's a lesson learned from our grandparents and great grandparents who had to practice this to survive the Depression. Just maybe this is at least in part why some are still financially above water today.

roger — February 14, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And we're forgetting a "small" detail - our federal budget. Whether we go through sequestration or reach a compromised budget that involves cuts to spending, federal dollars for transportation budgets aren't going to be as available as the CRC planned on. New Starts money was projected to take a $156 million hit under Pres Obama's proposal back in September - the Repubs will probably shoot for more - either way, don't hold your breath expecting the 100% of $800 million for LRT the project is banking on. And if we don't get that entire amount - the OR House bill before the session now says they're out.

Another matter that's already certain involves the $400 million the Feds are supposed to kick in for the bridge itself. The MAP-21 funding that's supposed to provide this has been cut by nearly 1/2 billion, and they don't know if they can meet all current spending requirements - meaning we will most likely need to look elsewhere for some or all of this money.

And don't forget Gov Gregoire's promise when she and Gov Kitz had their CRC get together - if some of the gov't money is missing - too bad - we're driving on and building it anyhow. Which means expect even higher tolls. And when tolling income fails to meet the bond payment requirement - look out!!!

roger — February 14, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lew who?

nailingit — February 14, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Former Mayor Royce Pollard says Leavitt's explanation of his switch doesn't make sense. He says Leavitt has been on the inside of conversations about the bridge for years.

Royce Pollard: "Mr. Leavitt was on the Council for seven years. He knew exactly what was going on. What the conditions were. And what had to be done. Has to live with that and figure out how to weasel his way out of it."

roger — February 14, 2013 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, I believe that most of the workers in the Post Office and the DMV are sick and tired of what they perceive as harassment from the public. They are afraid of answering the public's questions because they don't have the information either. I have been told not to 'harass' the workers when I am doing business there. Just pays your money and shut your mouth. Well I have a right to know where in hell my money goes and no one higher up will answer those questions. After that the signs appeared telling everyone that it is a crime to 'harass' the worker bees.

One of the words for captcha was turd. I .... you not.

ROGER, I didn't know about phasing the testing out. It makes sense though. Vehicles today are less polluting and it is not necessary to do it anymore. You can bet your last dollar though that the state WILL find another way to take it. Your last dollar that is. As far as the new equipment goes I would think it's some kind of a write off for the private company's taxes. If they up-graded all of the testing stations that's a lot of write off.

JohnCasey — February 15, 2013 at 4:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Foster Farms Chicken, out of Kelso, has been linked to some local salmonella cases in 2012. Maybe The Columbian will get around to reporting this - it just showed up last night in The Oregonian. Bottom line is to handle and cook properly - it seems salmonella is more common than we'd like to think.

My favorite line in the article is from an OR health official -- "Salmonella in chicken is legal except when you have an outbreak," said Emilio DeBess, state public health veterinarian." Hmmm... So, you can sell contaminated chicken and it's perfectly OK. But then someone decides to eat it raw or undercooked and gets sick. By some sort of convoluted logic, what was previously legal just became illegal due to dumbness on the part of the consumer. This had to be dreamed up by a litigation attorney.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A person ingests millions of germs, bacteria and viruses daily. Unless their numbers are overwhelming to the human biology it's no harm no (heh) foul.

Drift — February 15, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 7:06 am: What you describe above is why I am getting most of my protein from plants nowadays. :)

About Tim Leavitt's pandering: Royce had it right about that. Leavitt saw an angry group of voters and he made a promise he never intended to keep to snag them. I actually had a lawn sign out for Leavitt and destroyed it when he pulled that move because I knew he was taking advantage of their passion and it spoke volumes to me about his character. Mayor Royce was my best choice that year: that man always spoke his mind. What you heard was what you got.

Here is something else that Leavitt did that was tied closely to his No Tolls fake: he successfully wooed the Latino vote and won the official endorsement of the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC). They endorsed him, as did the No Tolls crowd, based on his promise to fight tolls.

The key word here was "fight". When explaining his 180 degree turn after the election, he said he never promised to stop tolls: He does not have that power.

Wonder who LULAC will support this time? We already know that he lost the NO TOLLS voters.

As an aside, this reminds me a little of Rob McKenna's downfall. By joining WA to the challenges to the Health Care Reform Act, he was trying to win the far right voters in our state. What happened is that he angered many of the moderate and liberal Democrats who supported him in 2008 (like me).

I do not see how Tim Leavitt will win. I only hope that the Madore supported opponent will be someone worth voting for, too.

manthou — February 15, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"What you describe above is why I am getting most of my protein from plants nowadays. :)"

You mean like spinach, manthou? ;^)

Drift — February 15, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — February 15, 2013 at 7:47 a.m

Drift, I'm thinking more on the line of shell beans...and even that is not 100% safe these days. It's all about food handling and sanitation issues in general.

goldenoldie — February 15, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mayor Leavitt, I have a suggestion for you for your upcoming re-election. Don't suggest annexing any neighborhood northeast of the boundary in Orchards. Chances are, the folks out our way will not help your re-election bid.

goldenoldie — February 15, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal can also add nuts and seeds to the list...8)

goldenoldie — February 15, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — February 15, 2013 at 4:38 a.m

Oh I am so laughing, on further checking on my son's package, he found that, not only did they send his package to the sorting station on 136th, now get this...they sent it on to the sorting building in Kent, Wa!
It will be relabeled in Kent, then sent BACK down here to sorting at the 136th building, then back to the P.O. In Hearthwood. He will then drive the almost 2 miles to the P.O. in Hearthwood to get next week.

Again, I see now how they are going broke. They are using the same tactics that big business uses when shipping products to stores. Many times our food, clothing, building supplies etc are shipped say (I'll use) from Ca, they will ship it to Seattle, then back to Portland, then deliver it to say Vancouver, or Tacoma..all to drive prices up. Driving twice or triple the miles when the product could easily be delivered during route.
Knowing this is what cause me years ago to buy as much locally as I can.

ELISI — February 15, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"...all to drive prices up. "*

ELISI — February 15, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.

Yeah, that makes real sense.... About as much as your undocumented package claims......

And your - by extension of a single, undocumented, incident - *"... I see now how they are going broke."*

Thanks for the morning's humorous rant based on a typically factually baseless talking point.

mr_basil_seal — February 15, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Pelosi: Congressional pay cut undermines dignity of the job**

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Thursday that she opposes a cut in congressional pay because it would diminish the dignity of lawmakers' jobs.

"I don't think we should do it; I think we should respect the work we do," Pelosi told reporters in the Capitol. "I think it's necessary for us to have the dignity of the job that we have rewarded."

The comments were made in the context of the looming sequester, which would force across-the-board cuts affecting most federal offices, including Congress. With lawmakers nowhere near a deal to avert those cuts, federal agencies are bracing for ways to absorb them with minimum damage to programs and personnel.

Pelosi, whose husband is a wealthy real-estate developer, was quick to note that a cut in her own pay would be far less significant than that for both staffers and less wealthy members of Congress.

Dignity of the job they do???? What job may that be??? Since they have virtually sat and have done nothing!! Rewards??? Reward a do nothing congress who's ratings are in the toilet for the job they do??? I'm thinking she must have took a hit off the delusional pipe one too many times!

ELISI — February 15, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Insightful opinion piece.

**The Grand Old Jurassic Party**

*With its focus on ideological purity, the Republican species is on the brink of extinction.*

The Republican Party is a presidential election away from extinction. If it can’t win the 2016 contest, and unless it has bolstered its congressional presence beyond the benefits of gerrymandered redistricting—which is to say not only retaking the Senate but polling more votes than the opposition nationally—the party will die. It will die not for reasons of “branding” or marketing or electoral cosmetics but because the party is at odds with the inevitable American trajectory in the direction of liberty, and with its own nature; paradoxically the party of Abraham Lincoln, which once saved the Union and which gives such passionate lip service to constitutionality, has come to embody the values of the Confederacy in its hostility to constitutional federalism and the civil bonds that the founding document codifies. The Republican Party will vanish not because of what its says but because of what it believes, not because of how it presents itself but because of who it is when it thinks no one is looking.

The contention by some that the GOP has an identity crisis is nonsense. It’s hard to remember any political organization in the last half century that had a clearer idea of itself. The party’s problem isn’t what it doesn’t know but what everyone else does know, which is that—as displayed in Congress on Tuesday night at the president’s State of the Union address, when Republicans could barely muster perfunctory support for the most benign positions favoring fair pay and opposing domestic violence—the party apparently despises women, gays, Latinos, African Americans, the poor, and the old. The more indelible this impression becomes, the more impossible it will be for even an estimable candidate, be it Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, or the now famously desiccated Marco Rubio, to transcend the party that nominates him. This isn’t to say that the argument for limited government will die with the party. It has been part of the American conversation since James Madison and Alexander Hamilton squared off over the Constitution in 1789, with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams each in their corners holding the coats of their respective protégés. The intent of the argument, however, has changed from an essential advocacy of freedom to retribution against the weak.

Read more @

nailingit — February 15, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone else hear a shrew...

ELISI — February 15, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Check out the new Madore video of Lou B's continued interview of him. I like the way he answered some of the questions, especially in his strong call for transparency and his promise that he wants to work well with unions. Clark County has 15 of them to deal with, so this is a good thing.

Good work, Lou B. This stuff is good information. And good for David Madore for being so transparent himself. I do not like some of his positions, most of them, actually. But at least I trust, for now, that he is speaking from his heart. I just hope he does not burn himself out quickly. Let's see how fast he ages in the next year.


Drift: I start every morning with a smoothie full of raw green veggies and fruit, plus a scoop of pea protein powder. Other add ins: nuts and chia or flax seeds. It keeps me going until early afternoon with no snack cravings. I can truly tell a difference in my energy and stamina since making this dietary switch. :)

manthou — February 15, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes I do. :))


1: any of a family (Soricidae) of small chiefly nocturnal insectivores related to the moles and distinguished by a long pointed snout, very small eyes, and short velvety fur

2: *an ill-tempered scolding woman*

nailingit — February 15, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Vancouver attempted to annex the Orchards/Sifton area before (in 2006?), remember? Back when Mayor Pollard wanted to move up in the largest city in the state rankings and have more clout. At that time the County Commissioners nixed it, saying we who live here have to vote on this. Strictly a guess, but I suspect this was never revisited due to the various plans in the works (the CRC, and a couple of the downtown redevelopment ones) - if the recent C-Tran Prop 1 vote was any clue, we'd also have been electing someone to City Council who would have opposed these plans. But when/if the plans get locked in and underway, then Vancouver will need a larger tax base and they'll most definitely be back to try again.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I was avoiding watching the latest video of Editor Lou interviewing Madore. But if you're going to insist it's good stuff - oh well - guess I'll go check it out.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm meat and potatoes, and maybe 2 or 3 veggies like lima beans and carrots. But after reading all the comments from you healthy eaters, I was reminded of something. I read something a few years back that said if you were going to use protein powder, get the hemp based one - it doesn't clog the insides up like the standard ones.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 15, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.

I have never been able to figure out the borders of the City of Vancouver. I have no idea where it starts or ends. It's all very confusing.

As for today's DM video, why would he even bring up the whole "protected class" thing unless he thought that's what we had here? If he doesn't yet know what's going on (as I suspect is true) he should just STFU. He's the only one in that group in a protected class, the rest of us are just trying to survive.

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the laugh this morning at Ms Pelosie expense... Or as I call Phyillis Diller........I think Phyillis could do a btter job...


Is it time to start "PREPPING"

vanwadreamer — February 15, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Annexation for City of Vancouver. The page is from 2007 and is no longer accurate in some areas, but these are the only maps that can be enlarged for detail. Go to the homepage for current planning.;=;=418&w;=540&sz;=45&tbnid;=GRlEznyJh6Cn_M:&tbnh;=87&tbnw;=112&zoom;=1&usg;=__WEWYFAMRK0RJEbG2cH7rnO23nmE=&sa;=X&ei;=RV4eUYebKKjyigKGt4C4BA&ved;=0CCcQ9QEwBA

And here's for Battle Ground; the map link is at the bottom of the page. Current boundaries have the line around, and from the lightly shaded future areas planned, it sort of looks like they don't plan on growing much more. (For now, anyhow. Not sure how expanding urban growth boundaries works.)

roger — February 15, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Meteors. Cool. I'm going to have to suggest that this is another reason to replace the I5 bridge - the current one won't survive an overhead meteor like in Russia.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, I was merely poking fun at your insinuation: eating greens to avoid being infested with micro-organisms. That's the way I took it, anyway. In my opinion, what one eats is a purely personal decision. Not that we humans don't devote quite a bit of conversation to the matter. Speaking of, I wouldn't recommend eating one of those tiny, little green caterpillars that dangle from the trees on a thread. Can you say, "involuntary rejection?" I'll never eat another ;^)

I'm still working on forming an opinion of Madore. I can't help, but wonder if the man hasn't a nerve/muscle malady. The way his lips continually peel back to his cheeks, showing his teeth, looks like a medical issue to me.

Drift — February 15, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just watched the video. He started with not liking that the C-Tran Board was going to approve a contract as negotiated without even reading it. I liked that. He also wants to post public employee pay scales and benefits to promote transparency - actually, if one looks it's pretty much already there. But then Editor Lou redirected to the private vs. public sector and pay/benefits, and Madore mostly just followed with that. A disagreement I have is with their applying this to the C-Tran driver contract being discussed. Madore criticized the union comparing their contract to TriMet's. He may be correct in noting the average $100K and world class bennies TriMet bus drivers get is a bit excessive, but to say this comparison is invalid is wrong. There is no one else local doing the same job to compare their contract to - unless you want to take a stretch and claim school bus driving is on par with this job.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If you haven't had a good laugh yet today!! To top it off the article cites some comments from the Fox Nation site. Priceless!

I empathize with the professor.

**Professor Bans Fox News As Source In Class At West Liberty University, Then Rescinds Ban**

Stephanie Wolfe, a political science professor at West Liberty University in West Virginia, is walking back a ban on using Fox News as a source for a class assignment, Inside Higher Ed is reporting.

Local television stations initially reported that Wolfe, who is filling in for another faculty member on leave, distributed a syllabus for an unspecified course that, according to Fox News, reads:

DO NOT use
1) The Onion -- this is not news this is literally a parody

2) Fox News -- The tagline "Fox News" makes me cringe. Please do not subject me to this biased news station. I would almost rather you print off an article from the Onion

WTOV9 reports parents began contacting local media and the university to complain that the policy was unfair.

Dave Bloomquist, a radio host at WWVA-AM, said he received complaints from parents via email [the segment begins at approximately the 31-minute mark]. When Bloomquist reached out to Wolfe, she insisted it was only a suggestion not to use Fox News.

Since the backlash, Wolfe has reversed course and will allow students to use Fox News as part of the assignment. (No word on whether The Onion has gotten the okay.)

"This is a case where we obviously have a concern, because as much as we will protect the academic freedom of the professor, we'll also protect the academic freedom of our students to go out and find as many sources as possible," WLU president Robin Capehart said on Fox News Thursday. "So obviously we were concerned."

Wolfe did not return a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

Fox News viewers came to the defense of the network, leaving comments on the Fox Nation website, such as "This is how it began in Germany" and "Come on parents fight against the indoctrination of your children."

nailingit — February 15, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


She needed to be fair and balanced - ban both FOX and MSNBC - even Morning Joe. Hmmm... Wonder if she banned the Daily Show and Colbert Report - that would be wrong.

roger — February 15, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the maps, I have no problem with Battle Ground, they put up signs everywhere stating their borders. I'd really hate to be a Vancouver cop and try to figure out where their jurisdiction ends.

Also, in Dave's video, he was comparing a Trimet MAX driver's pay to a Ctran BUS driver. Two totally different animals. Funny thing is, how or why would he know how much Trimet drivers make?

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

that baby otter inn the oregon zoo is adorable.

madore is sure getting a lot of columbian attention - for a republican, anyway.

i've never understood the vancouver city boundaries either. just glad they didn't the 'slums' hazel dell. we get *anything* promising, bet that changes really fast.

pelosi...isn't that another word for "clown"?

like the days longer now...Nagture always goes overboard, though. soon, i'll wish it got dark before 10:00 pm again.

DeeLittle — February 15, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The current TriMet highest hourly rate for drivers is about $26/hour. As this 2010 Oregonian article notes, drivers are putting in a lot of overtime - that got their earnings up to about $55K annually, with some reaching the $90-$100K range.

This article, From Feb 1, is probably what Madore was referring to. It notes the number earning over $100K has increased. He neglects to note this is due to working unsafe levels of overtime - something that is apparently going to be curtailed.

Some other light reading about TriMet from recent days. Bottom line - TriMet is going under. It's why some (to include me) are opposed to the LRT component of the CRC - we will pay what TriMet bills for the O&M;, supposedly to be applied to operations, etc, on this side. Pretty soon, everything they take in will be applied to either debt or employee pay/benefits (with the payments on bonds sold for LRT expansion to Lake Oz and Vancouver being the lions share). That is where our money will end up going.;_campaign=3f079af739-Press_Release_John_Charles_9_27_129_27_2012&utm;_medium=email

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I think it's time for me to have a Goldie moment.

Saw the sunlight and temps going up, and got a wild urge to do some landscaping. Tore out the old rhododendron that's been getting punier over the past few years - sorry, but no time for high maintenance plants that refuse to cooperate. Also did round 1 of 4 cutting down 2 of those filthy nasty arborvitae that were planted up against the front of the house. Round 2 will be finishing taking the 1st one out, and replacing it with one of those nice polite and clean hinoki cypress trees. Rounds 3 and 4 are the other one; a hinoki is already there in front of it and is doing quite nicely. I like symmetry. And even better, I planted the thing several years ago and it's thrived - doubled in size.

Then went down to Shorty's Nursery on Mill Plain. Explained my needs to a nice young lady - eastern side with just morning sunlight, has to be hardy enough to survive someone forgetting to fertilize and water, and I wanted two bushes that would spread and fill about 5-6 feet long, 2-3 feet deep. I'm also a notoriously heavy handed pruner - those damned bushes are going to look the way I want them to no matter how much cutting it takes. (Ooops - too much on that side, so back to the other to even it out - again.) I was waiting for her to call the boss over to have me evicted - I suppose I shouldn't be allowed to "adopt" nice plants like they had, because survival is 50/50 at best.

But that girl was a real pro - didn't bat an eye. First took me to a light yellow-green plant called Sundance Mexican Orange Blossom. She said I'll really need to remember to water and fertilize this Spring/Summer so the roots will set, but after that it'll take all the abuse I can dish out and do quite well. Sold!! She showed me a couple of others, but nothing spectacular. Then she took me to this plant with dark purplish green leaves that complemented the mexican plant quite nicely - some bizarre and unpronounceable second name - Scarlet Leucothoe. Sale #2! Got a bag of mulch, a box of fertilizer and a bag of moss killer for the lawn.

Finished digging the area and taking out roots from the arbornasties. Dug in a lot of mulch and the purple one was placed in a hole I dug near the faucet that drips when I water the lawn - I'm supposed to make an effort to keep the soil moist. Also spread the moss killer on the lawn.

My bad back and shoulder are already complaining VERY loudly - I suspect tomorrow is going to be a painful day. Time for another handful of Alleve and more wondering why I gave that bottle of Percocet away.

So, in closing, Goldie - it's days like this I'll remember when you go into one of your yard work narratives. And at first I'll get these warm and fuzzy remembrances of my own - what a wonderful time!!! I want to play too!!! But then I'll think of how I know I'm going to be feeling tomorrow, and I'll be saying "Old girl - you are off your rocker."

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.

Thanks Roger, that is exactly why we DON'T want LRT over here!

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Roger...

FWIW, I am so glad to see the information you are providing regarding TriMet and their financial issues. This is what I've been trying to tell so many people for quite a long time, now. What is it...almost 7 years now??? Compare that to C-Tran's operating costs and revenues as of late as well as performance and timeliness and it still brings up the number one question I've asked everyone in one form or another and that is...

What in their right mind would anybody want with TriMet's MAX in our state in the first place???

*Nobody's* been able to give me a straight answer. Not one single, solitary fact-based reason to incorporate 1-1/2 miles of MAX line into our state to the dead end zone across the street from Clark College. To say it's's greener and more efficient transportation... makes me crack up every time. Methinks some have been buffaloed into believing that bunch of hockey!

Do they think it's *many more better???* (Yes, incorrect verbiage on purpose). I so wish they'd take off the rose-colored glasses, stop smelling the pretty flowers and look up for once, realizing what it is that could be coming our way sooner than we think.

goldenoldie — February 15, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:50 p.m.

OK, first, for my back pain, I use something I have only been able to find at Rite Aid. It's called (oddly enough) "Backache Relief". It's in a red box. It really works.

Secondly, how old was the rhody and did you pull it out or just cut it down? I'm wondering because I have an old scraggly one that I want to take out but don't know how deep the roots go.

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW Roger-

Do you have any bee hives? That Orange Blossom is gonna bring in the honey bees like crazy.

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — February 15, 2013 at 7:51 p.m.

I couldn't agree more!!!

roger — February 15, 2013 at 7:50 p.m.

Now roger, think of the payoff later on in the year...and the next, and the next. That hard work...the aches and pains...the end result.

Then you'll realize I'm not off my rocker...except when I'm working in the garden, lol. There have been years where I was beginning to wonder...especially after the aching back for days on end...illgh!!!

This year will be one of the first where I don't have to bust my well, you know...I won't be doing the heavy garden chores like in the past. We'd incorporated four raised beds which will help me a lot with weeding and such. Two more go in this spring. I'm also going to try one planter system for potatoes which takes up a 2-1/2' x 2-1/2' space in the garden. As the plant grows upward, we add a level of 2 x 4's and can open it from the bottom in order to begin harvesting. I've heard these systems can produce up to 20-25 lbs of taters. Gotta give it a try. In years passed, I remember folks using old tires or heavy duty lawn leaf bags as the potato planters. Never had much luck that way. I'm always trying something new. We will be putting in espalier fruit trees to start a living fence structure. A lot easier than climbing ladders to prune them. A final task in the season will be to install a regulated drip irrigation system in order to save on water expenses. So much is wasted with watering with a hose. I do recommend everyone mulches their plants this year. Something tells me it might be a drier year this year.

Anyways...I've been harvesting my own seeds the past few years from guaranteed heritage/heirloom seeds...ones which weren't hybridized or soaked in RoundUp...and have had great success. I recommend it to all to at least try. It takes time to learn but pays off in the end.

goldenoldie — February 15, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 2:01- I'm starting to appreciate and "*note the sarcasm coming through*" in your comments. Good one!


*[Errant Areola Alert]*

**Rep. Rayne Brown, North Carolina State Republican, Introduces Bill Criminalizing Nipple Exposure**

North Carolina state representatives have introduced a bill that would "clarify" state law to specifically prohibit the baring of women's breasts. Women worried about showing too much of their "private area" should use pasties, or perhaps duct tape.

The proposed legislation, House Bill 34, would make it a Class H felony to expose "external organs of sex and of excretion, including the nipple, or any portion of the areola, of the human female breast."

Rep. Rayne Brown (R), who co-sponsored the bill, said that while it may seem frivolous and even funny, "there are communities across this state, there’s local governments across this state, and also local law enforcement for whom this issue is really not a laughing matter," according to WRAL in Raleigh, N.C.

Brown said that she was prompted, in part, by Asheville's second annual topless protest and women's rally this past August. Asheville is around 130 miles from Brown's district, the Associated Press writes.

According to the Asheville Citizen-Times, the event last year drew around a dozen women, who took off their shirts to "promote women's equality."

The AP reports that, depending on the intent of the exposure, women could face up to six months in prison for an errant areola, with "more mundane" exposure resulting in a 30-day sentence. There is an exemption for breastfeeding.

The AP goes on to write that HB 34 would give law enforcement authority to make arrests and would clear up confusion stemming from a 1970 state Court of Appeals ruling, which said the term "private parts," as then specified in state law, did not include breasts.

WRAL writes that Rep. Sarah Stevens (R), who chairs the North Carolina House Judiciary Subcommittee C, downplayed the impact the bill might have, but that committee member Rep. Annie Mobley (D) worried it might penalize women for wearing “questionable fashions."

Rep. Tim Moore, (R), on the other hand, said to WRAL, “You know what they say –- duct tape fixes everything."

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 12:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Tea Partiers: Light Rail an Invitation to Al Qaeda**

The citizens of Cobb County, Georgia, are currently mulling a proposal that would increase property taxes for 10 years in order to fund a new light-rail line between Atlanta to its suburbs. It's a fairly straightforward proposal, the kind of thing that pops up all the time in communities across the country. But if there's been one lesson of the past few years, it's that mundane policy debates have a tendency to become a lot less mundane once tea partiers get involved.

In this case, the Georgia Tea Party is arguing that the county should abandon its light-rail proposal because if the light-rail line were to be completed, it would become a magnet for terrorist attacks. Here's the group's chair, J.D. Van Brink:

If anyone doesn't believe me—England and Spain. Now, if we have a more decentralized mass-transit system using buses, if the terrorists blow up a single bus, we can work around that. When they blow up a rail, that just brings the system to a grinding halt. So how much security are we going to have on this rail system, and how much will it cost?

In other words, Van Brink is arguing that because terrorists fantasize about blowing up American infrastructure, we should avoid spending any money on infrastructure. Given tea partiers' opposition to most forms of government spending and their worries that light-rail and sustainable development plans are part of a United Nations conspiracy to force people to live in miniature, lightbulb-less "Hobbit homes," the terrorism concerns here almost seem like a dodge. But maybe Van Brink is on to something. Here's what Al Qaeda's new leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, said in a video released in July:


**Al-Qaeda Claims U.S. Mass Transportation Infrastructure Must Drastically Improve Before Any Terrorist Attacks**

The al-Qaeda commander confirmed his organization initially hoped to cripple travel in the United States by destroying its nationwide high-speed rail system, but had been shocked to discover no such thing exists. Calling it a cost-efficient, modern way of travel that would serve as a boon to small businesses and the national economy, al-Zawahiri implored U.S. officials to invest in not just one high-speed passenger train network, but many of them, so they could all be blown up simultaneously in a signature al-Qaeda attack upon the nation's major population centers.

Throughout the threatening video, the terrorist leader questioned the priorities of American politicians, asking why they would refuse to fund engineering projects that would create jobs, bombing opportunities, and new ways for the U.S. compete globally.,21008/

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 12:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I think you should start your own blog. I mean it. I'd subscribe. Remember way back when I told you that you were my human reader's digest for things that were worth discussing locally? I was working more than my 40 hours a week at the time and was able to catch up on who's who and what's what in Clark County for further exploration by reading your comments. :)

Lou B: Your Press Talk today made a good point about how these two politicians, one veteran, one rookie, use their first amendment rights to engage the people they serve in important conversations. I have run into both men in the community often and know they are two of the most visible, as well. Both are polite and easy to engage. Good to see you focusing on this shared strength. :)

goldie: Light rail to Clark County was a compromise and is not the most reasonable choice of all the possibilities, for sure (refer to my discussion of the first route proposed and rejected a couple of days ago). I see it as a start. And yes, I can speak with some authority on students at the School for the Blind. They have cut their Orientation and Mobility staff by half (by not filling retirement vacancies) to save the state some money. These good instructors are tasked with showing blind and low vision young people how to travel in the community INDEPENDENTLY and safely. Heck, they do it for old folks, too, who are losing their vision.

Anyway, the kids and staff are thrilled beyond words to be able to hop light rail steps from their school's door. Taking trips to Portland is part of the instruction. Buses aren't as quick and convenient and light rail instruction is a bonus. Can they do without it? Yep. Do they want to? No.

No one is going to win a light rail argument with you and do not want to. Make a note of this please and refrain from denigrating me or my ideas so you can get your daily fight fix. :)

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops: my first sentence to goldie: Light rail to Clark College was what I intended to type.

It is just an anecdotal opinion, ya know, based on personal experience and knowledge. No data involved save my own observations.

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Your comment at 12:20 am last night is a prime example of some of the ridiculous legislation that goes into a state's hopper every day.

I tried to keep up with what's what in Washington state, but it could eat up 4 or 5 hours a day.

This kind of garbage is what tax payers fund.

I have a friend who is trying to track "legislated science" to put into a blog. That is a full time job.

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola: Mr. Madore used to comment on The Columbian's FB forum very often. We all suspect he was told to can it (by the far right supporters) who are afraid he is going to give his detractors some real red meat with which they can impeach him.

I think Lou B refers to this in Press Talk today.

Jim Moeller is not so worried about losing his seat on the legislature, and can afford to be much more open. He also is seasoned and knows what is risky and what is not.

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola @ 0724 - Were you an alleycat in a previous life?

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I had a guest column in my college newspaper where I commented on goings on and rabble roused a little; one of my roomies was the editor so I had an in. He used to yell at me that I needed to be a little more productive - get writing and not leave him with blank space to fill because I didn't turn something in. I suspect any attempt at a blog on my part would meet with a similar lack of consistency.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I, too, had the honor of being friends with the best journalists on campus. They all went on to stellar careers in radio, TV, and print, shaming my own paltry writing and reporting skills by comparison.

They are the most interesting people I know and I absolutely admire their tenacity and commitment to their craft, in spite of the struggles to keep their jobs in this market.

I hope they win the fight to keep journalism responsible.

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I happen to know a little bit about Asheville NC; I've got family in the area. It is a nice old town off the Blue Ridge Parkway (the most beautiful scenic drive in the country) in the western part of the state. As with most of the area, there was nothing going on for years. Asheville got smart and maintained a lot of the old buildings - the Biltmore estate and its gardens is a centerpiece. Tourism is big. A lot of famous people are from there, to include Thomas Wolfe, O. Henry, William Jennings Bryan, Charlton Heston, Roberta Flack and bluegrass great Bill Monroe.

It is a different world there. They have a law on the books that says atheists cannot hold public office. They also have a black female mayor and an annual Christmas Jam (run by longtime resident Warren Hynes, of the Allman Brothers) that attracts top performers and raises big bucks for Habitats for Humanity.

I'm thinking this bill is actually aimed at a little more than a few bare breasted women. It seems that in the past 3 or 4 years a couple of "artistic groups" have opened shop and are presenting performances that include nudity (male and female), gay burlesque, and a lot of other stuff to promote "diversity." Now, that may be perfectly acceptable here in the Pacific Northwest, but - as I said - it's a completely different world back there.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.

Back before DM decided to run for Commissioner he and I used to go round and round on the FB side. I always did my best to catch him at something since he always came at me with that ego he's so famous for. Often times I could zing him and then he would just disappear or he would say something like "have a nice day" or something stupid like that. Then I think he met who is now his assistant (ex-campaign manager) and she told him to stay away from posting on the "C" because it was making him look bad and he was getting into too many arguments. He also would allow the "C" post to go to his FB page so he could remove some of the replies to his posts. It would take them off the "C" as well and finally Lou had to have a talk with him and told him to knock it off. Shortly after that he quit posting. I guess if he can't control the conversation, he doesn't want to have it.

hawkeye — February 16, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: The al Qaida light rail target controversy in Cobb County GA. The name rang a bell, so I checked. Lester Maddox was from there. And back when the Olympics were held in Atlanta the organizers pulled all planned events from there due to their electing a John Bircher to office.

Actually, that isn't the only place this argument was used. One of the criticisms against putting the new BPA power lines down the same path as the current ones is (or was) that this would present too much of a target to a terrorist group wanting to cut off the power supply here in the Northwest.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll check RiteAid. I tried Doans pills once; they weren't much good. Maybe the red box will do better.

No beehives. But I'm cool with honey bees - a live and let live policy. They also like my Japanese cherry blossom tree (or whatever it is) when it flowers. One of my cats learned to leave them alone the hard way - she batted one down and pounced on it - ended up with a stinger in between her paw pads that I had to pull.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE Madore and today's column by Editor Lou. Josephine Funes Wentzel has posted, and is getting into it with Editor Lou. I believe she's the same idiot who claimed Madore as a businessman was more qualified to be a County Commish than Boldt the truck driver?

I'm not sure what that woman's tie with Madore, but at the time I noted Madore needs to distance himself from her and that lunacy or he's lost my vote. He didn't and he did lose it.

I'm kind of with Hawkeye on this - there seems to be an agenda with Madore that we haven't seen yet. Something beyond the attempts at being a local power broker or all the praying.

"Let me have men about me that are fat, Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights. Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."

roger — February 16, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not sure exactly what ties Wentzel to Madore, but I know he threw his money at Wentzel's and Turley's city council campaigns. So it's little wonder she's squarely in his corner.

mrd — February 16, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.

I'd be willing to head up a one man task force to insure compliance.


roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.

You both achieved much more in this area than I.

When I was in 9th grade I had a year long Journalism class and was in charge of a good share of our yearbook/sports & wrote a few op-ed's.

On occasion I used to sit in the back, sniff glue and make out with this girl named Carol.

Great memories, but the reality of it might explain why I can't remember what my bylines were about.

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Actually, that isn't the only place this argument was used.*

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

Understood. Is someone looking a gift horse in the mouth?

It is my weekend contribution to the Noly Tollers.

You can never have enough plan B's!

Just for the heck of it roger, why don't you highlight this terrorist aspect into light rail conversation on the FB side. I'd love to see some of the comments!

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It would be interesting to know why Andrea Damewood left The Columbian for The Willamette Week - This seems like a step down in the world. Anyhow, if you want to keep up with some of the better stuff related to the CRC, you have to check her articles at the WW. Her latest indicates the CRC is going to face a rough go trying to get Senate approval - and the State's $450 mil cost share - as long as light rail stays. I'd also like to know who is feeding info to Sen Curtis King of Yakima - from reading what he wants changed, the guy has the best take (meaning most in line with what I want!) of any of the elected types who've weighed in on this. I guess I'll have to go piss off Rep Jimmy by asking him about this.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Don't minimize the value of weeklies for good journalism. The Stranger in Seattle won a Pulitzer and I think Nigel Jacquiss from WW did so, too, with his investigative work that exposed Neil Goldschmidt's sexual misconduct. Even "hyperlocal" blogs are winning awards and producing great stuff.

Hey, all: Walmart customers, who I think are the canaries in the coal mine for the struggling middle class, are not spending money there like they used to. No matter how one feels about this retail giant, when it starts going south, we all should take notice and start to wonder and worry.

Check out The Stranger's blog for more (written by Goldy), or this:

[link text][1]


manthou — February 16, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm definitely not minimizing WW; they're a good source to check when I don't find info from the two main papers. Example - Bob Stacey, Portland Metro. He's an example of the crowd there who want to make us pay dearly for the new bridge, which they consider for our benefit only. My curiosity is why Andrea left. One minute she's one of their stars, getting awards and stuff. And then - just like that she's gone. She was (supposedly) hired on WW's police beat (per The Columbian when she was leaving), but her focus has been almost entirely CRC related since she got there. I'm wondering if her digging was turning up stories she wanted to tell, but couldn't here given the Campbell family's ties to the CRC and the whole downtown redevelopment. (Wasn't there a story floating a couple of years back that Campbell needs the downtown project - something to do with a road?) Also, toward the end of her time here she was making comments on the All Politics Is Local side that led me to believe she truly disliked 2 people - Madore and Leavitt.

And I haven't forgotten about the guy who popped in here a couple of times - made some unfriendly comments about Editor Lou and the way he runs The Columbian, but then disappeared when pressed for something to prove it. When the second time came, I got the feeling it was Lou himself. Maybe it was Andrea?

roger — February 16, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The newsroom intrigue is certainly alive and well. I guess that is why someone is making a reality show set in a real one soon. I hope Lou B entered his for the chance to be chosen. :)

A good owner/publisher would keep his hands off the newsroom, but there have been instances recently when they have not and basically told reporters what to write and killed some stories. When the reporters balked, they were fired. A federal court recently upheld that firing. I think it was a newspaper in Orange County or San Jose.

I always suspected that the move to FB here was partially due to some suspicion that reporters for the C were commenting anonymously. I always thought our "George Vancouver" might be one, as well. He/she was immensely funny and kept making references to reporters being soft on city government because Scott Campbell was trying to seal a land sale deal with the city.

Who knows why Andrea left? Probably thought the staff at WW was a little more hip and exciting, more edgy. :) The WW certainly does more investigative work. It is so expensive to do that and I doubt she would have much of a chance at the Columbian.

I do think that All Politics is Local blog has lost much of its humor and edge. Was it Andrea who contributed mostly to that?

Aren't we the gossips tonight . . .Like nailingit, I am only mildly ashamed. :D

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. "I'd be willing to head up a one man task force to insure compliance."

Nails - Guess you missed my note about laws against atheists and other preverts there in western NC. Well, some might reckon that a Liberal is even worse than them. You might get away with your talk in the university triangle area back east around Raleigh, but as one moves westward it becomes a bit more traditional. Last I was there, there were still some good 'ol boys who wore white sheets while toasting marshmallows there in the area around Buncombe County NC - and once you get outside Asheville city limits I suspect they're still there. Nope, I suspect you'd be better off staying here and inspecting the hairy legs on the women of Portlandia.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Back when Pink Floyd was at their best - pre-Dark Side.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I picked this concert up on a French bootleg while in Germany - it's the live side of UmmaGumma and more, for old Floyd fans.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

North Carolina state representatives have introduced a bill that would "clarify" state law to specifically prohibit the baring of women's breasts. Women worried about showing too much of their "private area" should use pasties, or perhaps duct tape.

*I'm thinking this bill is actually aimed at a little more than a few bare breasted women.*

roger — February 16, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.

*I'd be willing to head up a one man task force to insure compliance.*

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.

A toll for no :) face? :)


Nails - Guess you missed my note about laws against atheists and other preverts there in western NC.

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.

No, I read it. But it didn't speak to my intent. I just wanted to add a little light hearted humor.

The whole inspecting breast thing...Ba Doom! :))


*Well, some might reckon that a Liberal is even worse than them.*

*Last I was there, there were still some good 'ol boys who wore white sheets while toasting marshmallows there in the area around Buncombe County NC - and once you get outside Asheville city limits I suspect they're still there. Nope, I suspect you'd be better off staying here and inspecting the hairy legs on the women of Portlandia.*

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.

Dude...somehow you got way way off track. :)))

I figure redundancy eliminates speculative sarcasm. ;) But I considered it! :)


*Back when Pink Floyd was at their best - pre-Dark Side.*

roger — February 16, 2013 at 8:33 p.m.

I've about worn through this DVD. It's the best. Props for honoring The Pink Floyd.

I enjoy all Floyd. But the era when Gilmore took over for Syd pre Dark Side is what I enjoy most. I have a solid collection of Floyd and Ummagumma, Meddle, Atom Heart Mother and Obscured By Clouds are probably the ones I listen to most. Ummagumma my favorite recording....maybe of all time from anybody...and the stuff with Syd was incredible. Saucer Full of Secrets was genius.

Pompeii captured the feel so well, a beautiful show.

A work of art!

Not to sell *Dark Side* short. It's truly a masterpiece. It also holds a special place in my heart having seen them on their Dark Side tour in Phoenix back in the day.

They performed Dark Side of the Moon sequentially and completely. With effects and a sound system that set musical/theatrical precedent for decades. Amazing show.

For the encore they performed my singular Floyd favorite, Echoe's.

I don't know if you still follow Gilmore and Water's, but they've produced some really good stuff over the years.

Nothing like Pink Floyd though.

They were magic.

Those were the days my friend. I thought they'd never end.

It's good to talk music......always good.

nailingit — February 16, 2013 at 11:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — February 16, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. really think you're someone with authority here on the forum, don't you, Manthou. You do realize what a forum is based upon, right??? It is a designated place or site where ideas are exchanged.

If you don't want anybody to question your thoughts or motives, don't make the comment! Simple as that! You want to get know two can play at that, but I'm not about to give you the satisfaction.

You said to me and I quote "No one is going to win a light rail argument with you and do not want to. Make a note of this please and refrain from denigrating me or my ideas so you can get your daily fight fix."

Well lady (and I mean that facetiously), I ask the questions...I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...yet instead, what I get is this bunch of bull hockey from you, claiming I'm denigrating your ideas for some daily fight fix...a typical response by someone who DOESN'T HAVE THE ANSWERS OR THE DATA TO SUPPORT THEIR...ahem..."IDEA." (Guess you haven't noticed I'm not on every day any more.)

Funny, I get the same ignorance by those "public information" folks at the Columbia River Crossing website and from local leaders(?) as well.

So time you bring up one of your "ideas" as you'd like to call them when it comes to the crossing project (I call them propaganda tactics to promote light rail support for a dying transit entity)...especially if it doesn't have something substantial connected to your statement which would verify the "idea" you presented, you better darn well believe you'll receive an argument from me BECAUSE I am fighting the very publicity the promoters of the LRT are spewing out to the public in order to gain further support.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now manthou...regarding the Blind School...

Considering I have friends AND relatives who have worked AND volunteered there...and knew some of the students in past years there...

I DO KNOW the history of the school and their students. You're going to tell me as well as the rest of the world that all students at the Blind School want the light rail to Clark College??? Are you serious??? Come on, now Manthou. You can do better than that!

Not only that, it would mean multiple transfers (once arriving to connecting points) and delays due to extenuating circumstances such as energy outages and accidents, Manthou. What's the difference with Bus Rapid Transit??? Ah yes, Bus Rapid Transit has a better mobility issue. They can go around accidents and don't rely on generated electricity. Care to explain how light rail, going through Northeast Portland is a positive activity? You do know the history of that region, right???

So you're saying the entire county should support light rail to Clark College for what??? How would that change the traffic flow with the incentive you propose?

Not a winning argument.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

According to recent data, student enrollment at Washington State School for the Blind -

Approximately 57, pre-K through 12. Approximately 42 are in grades 8-12.

Although learning activities of daily living which includes mobility through the community are highly important to these students, is such a project necessary, given the substandard financial issues plaguing TriMet? Seems to me C-Tran has a better system far superior to TriMet since TriMet is already talking of cutting around 65 routes over the course of the next year in order to afford the new light rail in ClackCo.

Still waiting for that winning argument.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Scott Hewitt's feature story this morning is one of the best things I have seen in The Columbian in a long time. He interviewed very good sources and gave the community some important information about the futility of risk assessment prediction.

I would love to see more of this here.


goldie: Reasonable, civil persons can disagree without name-calling and disparagement. You are sometimes like a garden variety internet troll on here and I absolutely am not interested in fighting with you or anyone.

I do not like participating with or reinforcing abusive commenters. I don't care to be "right", I do not think I am any authority on light rail, just expressing the alternative point of view that persons with vision loss and those who serve them are looking forward to light rail coming here. Why my reasonable comments elicited such a nasty series of diatribes from you this morning, is beyond me.

I do cop to calling you out on what appears to be an "addiction" to starting fights, against my better judgement. I happen to be your target du jour because of it.

I have no way of knowing how your brain works or if it is injured, so I send you kind thoughts, regardless and apologize for pulling your chain by accusing you of needing to keep fights going. There may be a reason for it that is beyond your control.


manthou — February 17, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Sequestration: What Would Romney Do?**

In other words: if they had the actual responsibility of power, there is no way on earth Republicans would be pushing for such drastic budget cuts. This in turn suggests, if I’m correct, that they have to know on some level that what they’re proposing right now is harmful to the economy. But they can’t admit it, because admitting it would toss 30 years of arguments about the economy out the window, and because admitting it would by implication bring them around to more rational policies that would help the country—which would also be policies that helped Obama. And that, in Republicanland, is the greatest mortal sin there is.

So the country is stuck. The fiscal-cliff deal Obama agreed to in early January was a political win for the president, but, fiscally, at best a draw representing slight austerity. Obama may have no choice but to make all his deals along these lines, preventing a full recovery, all because the Republicans are in such an implacable state of denial.

Read more @

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola - Any study of the various inquisitions has to start with the 12th Century persecution of the Cathars in France and the Waldensians in France and Italy. These led to Innocent IV's 1252 papal bull authorizing torture - after that - game on!!!

roger — February 17, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Scott Hewitt's feature story this morning is one of the best things I have seen in The Columbian in a long time.*

manthou — February 17, 2013 at 7:30 a.m.

Well stated manthou. Engaging and informative.

We need a no labels movement of a different kind.

Media at all levels should engage this subject often.

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

But I really don't see drawing a parallel between the Catholic Church inquisitions and our current political scene. Perhaps a better one would be to jump ahead to the 16th Century and look at the Protestant Reformation. Compare that to 1) The conflict between the Christian and Muslim churches, and 2) The internal strife both of these churches are going through with their various sects.

I suspect there's a doctorate thesis or two in there for you.

roger — February 17, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails -

After reading some other comments, all I have to say is that I'm glad my arguments are with you.


roger — February 17, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.

*In other words: if they had the actual responsibility of power, there is no way on earth Republicans would be pushing for such drastic budget cuts. This in turn suggests, if I’m correct, that they have to know on some level that what they’re proposing right now is harmful to the economy.

**The GOP Plan to Flush Your State’s Economy Down the Toilet:
The new “red-state model” seeks to turn your state into Mississippi.**Lynn Stuart Parramore

"The GOP economic plans not only subvert common sense and the lessons of history (being played out right now in places like the U.K., where austerity has failed dramatically), they also flip a giant middle finger at the American voter. Unable to win support at the national level for their foolhardy economic programs, Republicans have turned their attention to state-level action because that’s where gerrymandering really works wonders.

Red-state model proponents claim that their maneuvers will spark economic growth. But that was basically what George W. Bush had in mind when he supported a similar program for cutting taxes on the rich. That didn’t work out so well, and increased the very deficits Republicans decry.

But here’s the really scary part. Slashing taxes, squeezing workers and throwing out environmental protections can indeed lure businesses to states where they won’t have to pay their fair share and can get away with all sorts of abuse. If a state like North Carolina promotes such policies, businesses from nearby states like Virginia may indeed move their operations down the road. Unless you believe in the “Confidence Fairy,” as Paul Krugman calls the naïve GOP faith that making everybody poorer is the way to become rich, then you know that what results is simply trade diversion, not genuine growth. In other words, one state’s gain is another state’s loss. The result is a headlong race-to-the-bottom whereby the states losing business will be pressured to slash their taxes and burden their workers and ordinary citizens, too. Nobody wins in that game -- except the 1 percent."

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 17, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.

Actually, as strong a case could be made for the Roman persecution of the Celt's Druids...... 50's BCE

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...*
goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

**3 Step Mass Transit Program to Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions**
Bill McKibben and Lawrence J. Hanley

Superstorm Sandy has made it clear that no matter how hard some politicians try to ignore climate change, climate change will not ignore them—or any of us. More carbon means higher seas, the kind that inundate subways. The U.S can also thank carbon emissions for contributing to the hottest summers on record, massive wildfires and crippling droughts. The good news is, we can take some pretty serious steps to cut carbon pretty easily—and make lives better at the same time.
Think about the transportation sector, which accounts for 27 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, mostly from cars and trucks. Tailpipe pollution is also a major source of asthma and other illnesses—the transport sector contributes 80 percent of the harmful air pollutants that cause 1.3 million premature deaths each year. Road fatalities claim 33,000 lives per year on average, making traffic accidents the number one killer of people under 34 in the U.S. And traffic congestion is known to elevate stress levels and reduce quality of life for millions.
We can drive more fuel-efficient cars, of course, and President Obama deserves praise for raising mileage standards (though if he approves the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline he will wipe out all those gains). But much bigger cuts in emissions will come if we scale up public transport systems. A recent poll conducted by the Natural Resources Defense Council suggests that this would be popular with the public, 59 percent of who believe that the U.S. transportation system is “outdated, unreliable and inefficient.” Americans also want to be less dependent on cars. Today, 55 percent prefer to drive less, but 74 percent say they have no choice, and 58 percent would like to use public transportation more often, but it is not convenient or available from their home or work.
The U.S. therefore needs a 3-step mass transit program to help our communities thrive, protect our climate and promote human health.

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*The republicans will wait us out (the ones holding the money and the power) until we are gone for good.*

holycrapola — February 17, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.

Wait, are you saying the 'non-republicans' are "the ones holding the money and the power"?

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"Reasonable, civil persons can disagree without name-calling and disparagement."*

Preceded by -

*Make a note of this please and refrain from denigrating me or my ideas so you can get your daily fight fix. :)*

Followed by -

*I do not like participating with or reinforcing abusive commenters.*


*I have no way of knowing how your brain works or if it is injured, so I send you kind thoughts, regardless and apologize for pulling your chain by accusing you of needing to keep fights going. There may be a reason for it that is beyond your control.*

Entertaining, to say the least. Well, not really even entertaining.

manthou, all I asked in my request was documented information to support your statements or anybody's statements for that matter...something asked quite often by others which was expected of me but if I ask for the information, *this is what I get in return???*

As for the "brain injury" comment...totally uncalled for, my dear (which seems to be a habitual offense by you with no supportive information that would cause you to make such a statement...a rather baseless, vindictive personal attack in my opinion)...and the discussion was beyond just the Washington State School for the Blind.

My pointing out the consistent, problematic third-hand information without data that you present often which has put discussions like the Columbia River Crossing Project...something I-5 direly needs...into the hot seat, especially when it comes to the discussion of the addition of MAX into our state...and it set you into attack mode rather than realizing what it was I'd asked for in the first place.

Keep fights going??? Then don't egg it on with the derogatory statements you made. If you don't have the information to back it up, then I suggest you just say so and explain AT THE TIME that it was just you opinion and what you'd heard, not the "FACTS" I was seeking which I'd asked for in the first place. Is it really that difficult???

I mean you no emotional discomfort. As I've said from the beginning, I would appreciate facts which support our local community with this project. Facts that show the benefits of light rail in relation to cost effectiveness and improvements on our local infrastructure...not what he said or she said would be "thrilled." This is something which will affect our county for many, many years to come. So far, I haven't seen anything that supports light rail, other than the limited few who will profit with its construction. All I've seen is a detrimental effect economically.

Guess we're through with our debate...if that's what it was.

**την ειρήνη σε σας**
(peace to you)

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...* goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

**Public Transportation’s Role in Responding to Climate Change**

National averages demonstrate that public transportation
produces significantly less greenhouse
gas emissions per passenger mile than private vehicles
(see fig. 2). **Leading the way is heavy rail transit,
such as subways and metros, which produce about
75% less in greenhouse gas emissions per passenger
mile than an average single-occupancy vehicle
(SOV). Light rail systems produce 57% less and bus
transit produces 32% less**.

U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Transit Administration

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — February 17, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.

Excellent food for thought...and I totally agree.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Welcome to the poor house....."

That's were we are headed, and we might already be there. How crazy is this? The two institutions mostly responsible for destroying the economy, are the same two we've depending on to fix it??!!!! It's business as usual for the government, and the bankers are rolling in dough-OUR'S!! And so it goes...

mrd — February 17, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

@ mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Another "Pope" spouting out of touch conservative directives for his minions to carry out.

Maybe southern/all liberals/progressives should adopt the "we need to take our country back" movement conservatives have branded so well.

The main difference being this movement would reflect the majored will of the people.

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I do pay attention to something beside the CRC. We also have the BPA I5 Corridor project going on; the one putting 500 megawatt towers from Cowlitz County down through Clark County and over the river to Troutdale. When the plan was first floated in 2006, one option was to cross the Columbia up north and run the lines down the Oregon side. That state jumped and said No Way - they have environmental and residential zoning laws that won't allow this. So all BPA planning has been in our direction. There was a plan floated to go through the national forest to the east, but BPA dropped this due to expense, and pressure from the logging industry and people wanting to protect the forests. So, after studying impact on Clark County, and guidance from Patty Murray to impact the fewest people, they've finally settled on a route that skirts Battle Ground to the east and drops down through Hockinson and Camas to the river crossing point. And they can't put the lines underground for a number of reasons.

The electricity carried on these lines will supposedly go to us and to the I5 corridor area in Oregon. However, use patterns and sales to northern California suggests the plan may also be to send power that way - they've got a critical shortage that is supposedly reaching a crisis point. At the same time, our plans for a city in downtown Vancouver, increased growth at the Port, and real estate projections showing tremendous residential growth down the OR 99W corridor over the next 20 years, all suggests we'll have a great increase in need here.

Enough background. Here's my issue. BPA posted their Draft EIS for the project, and has extended comment period through March 1. I scanned through some, and got to the very end. (There's a few sections covering aspects of the EMF discussion; Appendix F goes into detail from their perspective.) Map 26-1 got my attention - Reasonably Foreseeable Future Projects. I opened it, and it shows all the Clark County routes considered for this project. Alarm bells time.

I questioned this after a recent Columbian article, but stated my concern poorly by adding the "power going to Portland" argument to it. I got a response from a BPA spokesman which focused on that part of the question. I went back and asked specifically about these future route proposals - no answer to date.

My belief - right or wrong - is that as the area continues to grow BPA will be back again and again saying they need to put in still more lines to increase power transmission capability. Eventually (probably after most of us are no longer here) these lines will be as much a part of our landscape here on the east side as the trees and the mountains. If correct, is this something acceptable?

roger — February 17, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.

The link was quite useful and you already know I agree with the issues of climate change and what needs to be done. I also agree with the 59% who believe the US Transportation System is outdated. That includes the current light rail designs in my opinion. It is also my opinion that transportation improvements must be contingent with the funds availability in each city in the US and the government, Federal - State - Local must take transit needs into consideration. When the economy has tanked as it has in our county, there will be issues of supporting such mass transit venues like MAX, and these issues will continue for decades. Is stripping the pocketbooks of each and every member of our community as well as adding additional financial stress to the commuters the answer??? The information Roger submitted in recent days regarding TriMet's money handling and the size of the community in which it provides service as well as the issues of continuing service needs to certain communities is a great representation of just what it is I speak. Our county is barely holding it's own in the public sector as well as private sector. Improving on our Bus Transit System here is something I believe we can afford at this time and for decades to come, as long as we keep the costs in check and transit needs monitored fairly. MAX will be crippling, especially since it would cover a very miniscule chunk of the county.

Regarding your comment and the data on the link you provided @ 9:53...again, useful data but slightly dated at 2009. I don't think when this report was provided, that there would be as many hybrid OR electric vehicles being used as there are today, so some skeptics might render the stats as inaccurate. I'm also wondering if they took into fact, the increased number of bicyclists on the road these days.

What I've mentioned in the past, I will say again. Everyone should be doing their part to reduce carbon emissions...beginning with their automobiles. A great example is to eliminate the need for an extra vehicle if possible. In my case, I work at home. I don't need a personal vehicle in order to commute so I live without. When I am out and about, I am carpooling with another and we use the "circle" method of running errands. I visualize the route we take, never switching back. We save on fuel costs double time when two or even three of us run our errands together. At any other time, I choose the bus or walking to my destination.

In any neighborhood you go, you will find homes with 5, maybe 6 cars...and there's only two OR three licensed drivers. Some of those vehicles are obvious gas guzzlers, leaking fossil fuels of some sort into our water system...another pet peeve of mine.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Portland politicians get mad because so many of their citizens choose to "escape" to our side of the river to live. While they may still pay income tax working there, they escape all the other fees and cost associated with that side of the river. The latest - a 9-11% rate hike from PGE for residential and small business customers.

roger — February 17, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If you take a look at the link I've provided, you will note the issue of electrically greenhouse gas emissions is higher than transportation greenhouse gas emissions. Industrialized greenhouse gas emissions are right on the tail of transportation greenhouse gas emissions. This is a problem not only in transportation, but a wide scope of differing entities....agriculture included.

With energy providing over 1/3rd of the greenhouse gas emissions, you need to take into effect, that includes running light rail on electricity as well. So if you take into effect, the fact that the Boardman Coal-fired plant is still in operation, providing 15% of PGE's energy needs...just how energy efficient is MAX, especially with their expansion? It would be interesting to see just how much energy is utilized by each and every MAX train, Street Car and Trolley in Portland. Just an fyi...coal energy makes up 81% of the carbon emissions in our country according to the link.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...* goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

**2017 and Later Model Year Light-Duty Vehicle Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Corporate Average Fuel Economy Standards**

Federal Register / Vol. 77, No. 199 / Monday, October 15, 2012 / Rules and Regulations

These rules establish strong and coordinated Federal greenhouse gas and fuel economy standards for passenger cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty passenger vehicles (hereafter light-duty vehicles or LDVs). **Together, these vehicle categories, which include passenger cars, sport utility vehicles, crossover utility vehicles, minivans, and
pickup trucks, among others, are presently responsible for approximately 60 percent of all U.S. transportation related greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions** and fuel consumption.

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

electrically greenhouse gas emissions??? uh boy...

I meant *electrically-generated greenhouse gas emissions*.

Sorry about that

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If we are talking history.....

Was actually just discussing with someone else that I clearly understand why the Russians went with Lenin and the Revolution. There's a huge country, and the wealth belongs to the chosen few. The rest starves. Throw into that mix the role of the church over there, telling the serfs their role is preordained and to pray nicely for the next life - voila. These people were ripe to overthrow what they had.

Not saying we need to follow Lenin and Marx - I'd be subject to virtual stoning here. Just saying I understand the causes.

We are so on our way (or are we there yet?) to becoming such a society - wealth for a few, rest go to hell. Sounds also suspiciously like Mexico, doesn't it?

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...* goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

**Washington State Greenhouse Gas Emissions Inventory 1990-2008**

The Transportation Sector is Washington’s most significant contributor of greenhouse gases.

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:42 a.m

as i understand your post, you area proponent of man-made global warming...?

regarding your figures on carbon emissions: since china (and to a lesser extent, russia) is the world's major producer of carbon emissions, why aren't we agitating for *their* cutbacks, instead of doing things that cripple our own economy for dubious benefit?

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

that's "are a", not area proponent

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*With energy providing over 1/3rd of the greenhouse gas emissions, you need to take into effect, that includes running light rail on electricity as well.*

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.

You are being a bit selective.....
"According to the latest issue of the monthly “Energy Infrastructure Update” published by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Office of Energy Projects with data for the first half of 2012, **229 renewable energy projects accounted for more than 38% of new electrical generation capacity"**

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I ASK FOR FACTS supporting a statement in order to properly draw my own conclusion...* goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

Take a look at the growth rates of nuclear, NG, coal driven energy production.

Then look at the combination of increasing use of electric and hybrid drive transport.

"In 2009, the world relied on renewable sources for around 13.1% of its primary energy supply, according to IEA statistics. Renewables accounted for 19.5% of global electricity generation and 3% of global energy consumption for road transport in the same year."

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*...regarding your figures on carbon emissions: since china (and to a lesser extent, russia) is the world's major producer of carbon emissions, why aren't we agitating for their cutbacks, instead of doing things that cripple our own economy for dubious benefit?*

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.

Factor in the percentage of China's growth that is driven by our importing of their products and note that basically increases the U.S.'s per capita GHG emission quantities.

By off-shoring the production, we are shifting the source of the emission, GHG emissions that we are responsible for.

And at the same time effectively removing our ability to regulate or control those emissions.

BTW, I don't think "proponent" is the word you were searching for.....

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I hope you don’t mind if I ask you a question about some discussion over on FB on the LRT.

It’s about the number of riderships.

For C-Tran, if one person takes a bus from A to B, and then returns from B to A, that constitutes two riderships. If one person goes from A to B, then transfers from B to C, and later returns from C to B, then transfers from B to A, that constitutes four riderships. At least that’s the way C-Tran used to figure things, and I’m assuming still does. I see the figure of 30% came up for MAX. It was referred to as “commuters”. Is this actually the number of commuters, or is this, the number of “riderships”.


Separately, calling the Right “social engineers” as I sometimes see happen, is an oxymoron. Case in point: population growth management through centralized land use planning. It’s all about population densification. One of those objectives has been to zone properties for high density along corridors, thereby forcing people into move into apartments in order to encourage public transportation use. Yep. Now that’s social engineering, and this type of land use planning is the brainchild of the Left, not the Right. Just like HOV lanes.

kn_dalai — February 17, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A conservative plague.

Doubling down when wrong.

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"If you really ant to know a man's character, give him power."
Thanks Nail, that one sentence in that trailer says it all for me.
So aptly named, that boy. For me,he has been and still is evil incarnate. No faults he can even think of. No conscience either.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*It is also my opinion that transportation improvements must be contingent with the funds availability in each city in the US and the government, Federal - State - Local must take transit needs into consideration. When the economy has tanked as it has in our county, there will be issues of supporting such mass transit venues like MAX, and these issues will continue for decades.*

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 10:28 a.m

The 59% was pretty specific in speaking about individual car use and a lack of moving forward on mass transit. Look at the link citing the 59%

" Three out of four Americans are frustrated with the lack of transportation options that forces them to drive more than they would prefer, according to a new nationwide public opinion survey released today by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). According to the poll results, **two out of three support government investment in to expand and improve public transportation and twice as many people favor new transit – buses, trains and light rail – rather than new highways as the best way to solve America’s traffic woes."**

After misreading the statistic, you're jumping to an inference that isn't supported by the data.

However, the real issue is in the assumption of the austerity paradigm: that we need to cut taxes because of the economy and then ignore the pressing environmental issues from GHG increase.

So basically, light rail, bus mass transit is both supported by the public and is part of a pro-active program to mitigate the escalating effects of our fossil fuel burning. Both of which indicate the importance of tax dollars being used to support it.

mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, Roger, I just figured out who Madore reminds me of. We are watching Demolition Man and there he was, Dr. Cocteau. Be Well.

BTW, seems like someone put on their "cranky pants" this morning.

hawkeye — February 17, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal, thanks for giving my brain some extra workout with your group of comments. Let me begin with your comment @1:10 pm, quoting "Three out of four Americans are frustrated with the lack of transportation options that forces them to drive more than they would prefer, according to a new nationwide public opinion survey released today by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC)."

In the method of presentation, this statement is quite misleading. What wasn't mentioned in your comment is that this was a nationwide poll of 800 people. With almost 314 million people in the USA, that's not an accurate statement, claiming 3 out of 4 Americans are frustrated with the lack of transportation options. The memo on Public Information Strategies also doesn't state whether or not those polled even have a clue as to the magnitude of the services their transit company provides. Therefore, the poll would be rendered moot and filled with inaccuracies.

Secondly, the article you provided regarding renewable energy nearly doubling under the Obama Administration clearly is a reminder to us that the information needed for projects such as I-5 Bridge should also be brought up to date since they're working on 2005 figures, estimating the number of commuters/type of transportation utilized including hybrid vehicles, buses, light rail, gas guzzlers. As kn_dali pointed out, there are issues of recording commutes back and forth. With tolls, commuters may only have to pay once on tolls each time they cross the river. Add to the fact that it might be discounted for locals...thus reducing the cost effectiveness of tolls.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Goldie, you really need to read up on sampling methods. A poll of 800, well stratified, adjusted for the pop under question, is probably very accurate and therefore allows for generalization to the pop under discussion. It is not the whole population anyway. Babies don't get surveyed.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And then, for those of us who feel like a peaceful Sunday afternoon, avoiding laundry and house cleaning, there's always fun things to find on the web.

Please not that I did not provide link to the map itself, just the article. I did peruse, however, and it is funny.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

basil - (continued)

Number three comment - Regarding your comment @11:08 and the Washington Dept. of Ecology...

Greenhouse Gas Emissions recorded (electricity, net consumption-based) showed an increase from 1998 to 2008, mainly from Natural Gas and Coal. The data states it increased from 16.9 million metric tons(MMT for short) of CO2e in 1998 to 19.1 MMT of CO2e. Residential and commercial emissions also gained from 18.1 million to 21.9 million. Transportation...6.3 MMT increase over the course of the ten year study. If you combine the GHG emissions of electricity, net consumption with residential/commercial consumption, that is 40 MMT of GHG emissions. Compare that with gasoline and diesel GHG emissions of 42.8 MMT...pretty much the same amount. Now in today's standards, the transportation numbers could easily be significantly improved, given the number of hybrids on the road today as compared to 2008. Also factor in the number of buses which are more energy efficient, as are the semi trucks. Also, note the chart regarding Trends by Sector, Figure 2 which clearly shows 2008 has an improvement in GHG emissions in the transportation sector. And Basil...the global greenhouse emissions are a global issue, not just one state in the US. We can clean our air around here, but as long as China and other nations are billowing out that black coal junk as well as other problematic issues plaguing our atmosphere by neglect...something as small as adding a couple of miles of light rail, further disabling the economic climate of Vancouver by a highly inefficient light rail system isn't going to even make the slightest dent in improvement.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And might factor in the GHG emissions which will increase with manufacturing and construction of the light rail segment of the crossing alone...and them thar trucks are pretty nasty when they're haulin' heavy loads.

luvithere, regarding your comment on polls...I've read plenty on sampling of polls on numerous occasions and nothing was stated in the information given by basil which convinces me the people who were surveyed even had a clue as to what it was they were discussing. Nothing was stated whether or not the people are regular riders on buses, light rails, subways, commuter rails, taxis or anything...just a general statement of 800 Americans across the country who answer the survey. Still...not an accurate comparison of 800 people versus over 314 million. Even if it was 314 thousand ADULT Americans who understood what it was the poll was all about, 800 surveyed is still no comparison...rendering the poll moot.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.

Global climate changes are a naturally-occurring phenomenon. Engineered byproducts by humans which emit additional greenhouse gases add to the phenomenon, thus elevating normally natural levels to unnatural heights. It's our responsibility as residents of this planet to work with the planet to improve what it is we're adding.

Like Basil said, as long as we import what it is China is producing, we're adding to the problem. There is a global push for China to improve the emissions...but is it enough???

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*One of those objectives has been to zone properties for high density along corridors, thereby forcing people into move into apartments in order to encourage public transportation use. Yep. Now that’s social engineering, and this type of land use planning is the brainchild of the Left, not the Right. Just like HOV lanes.
kn_dalai — February 17, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.*

how did you the left was responsible?

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

damn **keyboard**

that's *"how did you determine* the left was responsible?**

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

well, Gold, we disagree on polls. But that's because I have done polls myself, done the sampling strategy, done the surveys, and therefore consider myself somewhat of an expert in the area. It might be moot in your opinion, but that is your opinion - and you are entitled to it. But just an opinion :)

But we are in agreement that we as humans should work with the planet to heal it. That I support.

With that in mind: folks, I heard the first rather incredibly loud frog sing his song yesterday in our small pond by the front door. Could it be? Spring coming? Or just an eager too-early frog?

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle...cluster development is also known as "Conservation Development" and is intended to maximize the efficiency of structural development while reducing the negative impact on the natural environment.

In other words...cram us all into condos so our county could screw up even more planning issues with these blasted mini malls and quickie marts...forcing us onto ugly eyesore light rail long as they plant a row of non-native, pretty trees and flowers and spray the heck out of the lawns and gardens, killing our native bee population. Gotta have those pretty lawns you know. (yes, totally sarcastic)

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, they also refer to that cluster develop as infill. An ugly word in my opinion. And yea, those pretty non-native lawns and trees that need excessive watering. And poisons.

Did they not finally recognize what exactly leads to bee colony collapse? You noticed that one barely sees it mentioned in media? Seems it is a specific series of pesticides. Which I thought all along.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere, are you saying that in the sampling strategy, that you choose a certain group of people in order to take the survey? I've never been comfortable with polls as I've felt that no matter which way the information is gathered...if there's a certain genre you seek which fits the descriptive of the poll, is it truly an accurate depiction? And on the flip side of the most cases, if the polls are taken from a general consensus...

hmm... a catch 22.

I'd love to see a sampling of the polls you have done. Curiosity on my part.

With regards to the planet, I'm glad we agree on something...8))

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 3:01 p.m.

What's truly scary's a pesticide which is supposed to be "organic."

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Organic" me behind. They can label it all they want, if it kills it kills. Last I heard Bayer still refuses to acknowledge the fact that it is the culprit. Too much money to be made.
I went back to home-made "poison": baking soda, water, and vinegar. And that, I noticed, I rarely need out in garden. I leave most things alone and that seems to do the trick. As we are typically flooded with bees, I guess they agree.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Did they not finally recognize what exactly leads to bee colony collapse? You noticed that one barely sees it mentioned in media? Seems it is a specific series of pesticides. Which I thought all along.
luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 3:01 p.m*

my nephew tried his hand a bee-keeping last success. he postulates something killed the queen.

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere and DeeLittle:

If only more people would realize pest control doesn't mean pesticide control. Studying up on plant types for the garden and proper planting would encourage the necessary attraction of service critters who would control the problematic critters.

Dee, no matter what your nephew did right, the bees travel. Most likely, a worker brought something back to the hive or the extreme cold might have killed them off. I hope he tries again this year.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> The chief investment strategist at
> Standard & Poor’s said that Wiedemer’s
> track record “demands our attention.”
> And finally, the former CFO of Goldman
> Sachs said Wiedemer’s “prescience in
> (his) first book lends credence to the
> new warnings. This book deserves our
> attention.”
> In the interview for his latest
> blockbuster Aftershock, Wiedemer says
> the 90% drop in the stock market is “a
> worst-case scenario,” and the host
> quickly challenged this claim.
> Wiedemer calmly laid out a clear
> explanation of why a large drop of
> some sort is a virtual certainty.
> It starts with the reckless strategy
> of the Federal Reserve to print a
> massive amount of money out of thin
> air in an attempt to stimulate the
> economy.
> “These funds haven’t made it into the
> markets and the economy yet. But it is
> a mathematical certainty that once the
> dam breaks, and this money passes
> through the reserves and hits the
> markets, inflation will surge,” said
> Wiedemer.
> “Once you hit 10% inflation, 10-year
> Treasury bonds lose about half their
> value. And by 20%, any value is all
> but gone. Interest rates will increase
> dramatically at this point, and that
> will cause real estate values to
> collapse. And the stock market will
> collapse as a consequence of these
> other problems.”;_source=taboola

DeeLittle — February 17, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Dee...what was it Holycrapola has been warning us about these days???

Yeah...we need to take the situation serious. Not get paranoid...just remain educated about the issue...hopefully to stay a step ahead of the game if possible.

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Got that right, Gold. We just left it all alone, planted only what should be here and then noticed that natural pest control (critters) did the rest. Nothing really needed. I just use the baking soda mix if the roses have fungus, mildew.

As far as that perfect lawn goes - nothing doing! The easy solution to that was to call it a meadow. LOL. Now the weeds actually fit in - dandelions get eaten by rabbits, and the wildflowers look particularly well. Sadly, moles have also discovered this lush meadow and contribute heavily to nice aerated soil mounds. Grrr.

Of course, we are also a bit out of town so we do not need to have a green lush lawn to satisfy the neighborhood. In city, I would replace it with shrubs anyway.

luvithere — February 17, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails -- "Not to sell Dark Side short. It's truly a masterpiece. It also holds a special place in my heart having seen them on their Dark Side tour in Phoenix back in the day."

Was that the outdoor one at Big Surf? A buddy of mine was there. He claimed it was the greatest concert ever - during the closing number a sandstorm was coming up from the south - he said they played along with the sound of the storm, getting louder and louder, until it hit. Then they shut down and hauled ass off the stage.

roger — February 17, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Misstep in gun bill could defeat the effort**

One of the major gun-control efforts in Olympia this session calls for the sheriff to inspect the homes of assault-weapon owners. The bill’s backers say that was a mistake.

Forget police drones flying over your house. How about police coming inside, once a year, to have a look around?

As Orwellian as that sounds, it isn’t hypothetical. The notion of police home inspections was introduced in a bill last week in Olympia.

That it’s part of one of the major gun-control efforts pains me. It seemed in recent weeks lawmakers might be headed toward some common-sense regulation of gun sales. But then last week they went too far. By mistake, they claim. But still too far.

“They always say, we’ll never go house to house to take your guns away. But then you see this, and you have to wonder.”

That’s no gun-rights absolutist talking, but Lance Palmer, a Seattle trial lawyer and self-described liberal who brought the troubling Senate Bill 5737 to my attention. It’s the long-awaited assault-weapons ban, introduced last week by three Seattle Democrats.

Responding to the Newtown school massacre, the bill would ban the sale of semi-automatic weapons that use detachable ammunition magazines. Clips that contain more than 10 rounds would be illegal.

But then, with respect to the thousands of weapons like that already owned by Washington residents, the bill says this:

“In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall ... safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.”

In other words, come into homes without a warrant to poke around. Failure to comply could get you up to a year in jail.

Question is can and will this bill pass? Will we be subject to home inspections? Is this not illegal without a warrant?

ELISI — February 17, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — February 17, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.

I have no idea where that 30% Portland commuter LRT ridership number comes from - I'm suspecting he was using the overall public transportation figure. And 60% of that is bus. That's why I threw those numbers out to challenge him. I haven't been back to check for a response.

I agree with you on how riders are counted. That's why whenever I see one of the widely varying LRT ridership projections I cut the number in half. The other thing I'm thinking will take place is that when bridge construction starts, C-Tran is going to start routing express buses down the I205 (something part of the Regional plan to augment BRT). Hopefully they'll start a run from the Van Mall transit center; right now people along the I205 corridor only have a very limited run out of Evergreen; we have to go to Hazel Dell Hwy 99 center or to the Fishers Landing one unless one's work schedule fits that limited run at Evergreen.

Yes, Vancouver is practicing social engineering. They've actually got a beautiful plan for the future - check the designs for the various LRT components, and then the last few pages shows what else they're planning downtown. Unfortunately, this is going to take a whole lot of money, and I really don't think the rest of us should have to pay for it. The future is on the east side!!

roger — February 17, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

elisi: I was saying earlier this week that it takes hours a day, if one is so inclined, to try to keep up with the bills jumping out of the hopper in Olympia.

I urge you, and everyone, to sign up at the legislature home page so you can comment on the bills you like and don't like online. It is so easy.

There are so many stinkers this year, I can hardly believe it.

manthou — February 17, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Actually, as strong a case could be made for the Roman persecution of the Celt's Druids...... 50's BCE." -- mr_basil_seal — February 17, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.

But the Romans were "civilized" about it. Julius Caesar was turned off by the Druids' human sacrifices, and decided they couldn't be Romans and Druids. But they tried conversion first. It wasn't until quite a bit later that either Tiberius or Claudius decided to get firm and went in and destroyed all their religious sites. The Druids got the hint, and either converted or disappeared from view.

The Catholic Inquisitions, on the other hand, were much more brutal. Torture, burning at the stake, and a few other niceties designed to entertain the true believers and at the same time keep them in line.

roger — February 17, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry - Can't help it. Still one of my favorites.

roger — February 17, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Was that the outdoor one at Big Surf?

roger — February 17, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

No. It was indoor and something on the level of the Rose Garden. A rotunda.

They had a giant circular screen behind them that was raised from the stage and it depicted each song as they were playing.

It started out with the familiar heartbeat of Darkside with a small dark speck in the screen's center pulsating to the heartbeats.

With each beat it grew larger till there was this .. 50'+ diameter (not sure of measurement but f'ing huge. Much bigger than they use now with the hi def graphics) pulsating eyeball blinking. Then began the story of madness, Syd and all that goes with it.

All of Darkside was choreographed on screen. A par excellence theatrical production, complete with a rocket ship in the rafters on cables that crashed into the stage at the end, exploding with a combo of pyrotechnics and a massive screen display of destruction as the rocket hit the 'dark side of the moon'.

As with Darkside, the performance was a tribute to Syd Barrett's travels through the dark corridors of his mental illness. A wild ride and well done.

For the encore, everything went black except for the band playing Echoe's with green lit dry ice/smoke blanketing the stage. Erie and oh so Floyd!

I'm with your buddy, it was the best show I've ever seen.


Not for everyone's taste. Headphones highly recommended.

nailingit — February 17, 2013 at 10:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A conservative perspective that has me cheering this morning:

John David Dyche, a conservative free lance columnist, has had his usual column rejected by the Louisville Courier-Journal. What did he propose? Some very interesting changes that all newspapers should consider:

Balance the editorial page with equal time for conservative and liberal views; disclosure of editor and journalist political affiliation; live stream their meetings for public view; and the best yet: **make public the internal communications about stories and policies**

What's not to like about these suggestions?

I always thought there was a double standard about a newspaper's cry for public transparency while being closed themselves.

Interested what the rejected column says? It is included here:

[link text][1]


manthou — February 18, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Julius Caesar was turned off by the Druids' human sacrifices, and decided they couldn't be Romans and Druids.*

roger — February 17, 2013 at 6:26 p.m.

Might want to think about the 'entertainments' being offered to the citizens of Rome during the time. The claim you are positing is mostly based on Ceasar's rationalization of his policy toward the Celts and (to some extent) the Celt's having handed the Romans their hat in the 300s BCE.

also see:
"Yet the Romans had double standards; although human sacrifice had ended in Rome a century earlier, gladiatorial games and feeding people to lions were regular sport, whilst many thousands of conquered Celts in Gaul were victims of Roman atrocities, such as cutting off their hands and feet and leaving them to die slowly. By accusing the Celts of practicing human sacrifice, the Romans thought they had an excuse for their own unlicensed cruelty."

mr_basil_seal — February 18, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — February 17, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.

What luvithere is talking about is how to make sure the polling sample is truely randomized; eliminating methods that introduce bias. It is quite a science; an evolving science.

They know that (for example) that asking a 'random' sample of elementary kids what their favorite flavor of jelly is isn't the same as asking a random sample of customers walking into a grocery store. And that likely there would be a difference in results between shoppers at a food co-op and Winco and Chuck's and Sorya.

And that 'random' needs to be specific; every 5th, or whatever. Not just the poll taker's choice.

But the real issue, again, is that just because you don't like the results, tossing off attempts to discredit the source doesn't work. IF you have data you like better, bring it forward and explain why you consider your data more reliable.

mr_basil_seal — February 18, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And we give these people a seat at the table when it comes to shaping public policy. Why?*

*Nothing but a bunch of snake charmers from the top down frocking their flock.*

**Vatican Exorcist Thanks Pope: Gabriel Amorth Says Benedict Gave 'Powerful Prayers That Serve Exorcism'**

T**he Vatican's chief exorcist has thanked Pope Benedict XVI for opening the way to exorcisms, not only for those possessed by the devil but also those tormented by him.**

**"Benedict held an audience with exorcists from all over the world** and welcomed us with words of great, great encouragement," Gabriel Amorth, d**evil fighter for the diocese of Rome for 27 years**, said late Friday in an interview with Italian religious channel TV2000.

"He has continued to encourage us. **The pope has done a lot to revise procedures... and given us powerful prayers that serve to exorcise," said Amorth.**

The praise came after the 85-year-old pontiff said he was resigning on February 28 due to old age. Benedict's papacy has been hit hard by **sex abuse scandals and divisions within the Church -- both of which Amorth has previously blamed as the work of the devil.**

As cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, **he helped reform the catechism of the Catholic Church to "widen the front in the fight against Satan... not just in cases of the diabolic possession of people but in all cases of disturbances caused by the devil and that's 90 percent of the cases," Amorth said.**

He said that **cases of full possession by the devil** are very rare, but that he has seen **victims "walk on walls, slither across the floor like a snake."**

**Disturbances caused by the devil,** however, "have become extremely common."
"People go to wizards, to fortune-tellers, to those who call themselves exorcists... it's become a problem, because when someone wants an exorcist, there aren't very many and they are ill prepared," he said.

**The Association of Exorcists** also has its work cut out because "the act of exorcism had been suspended for centuries, and while **there is a huge request for exorcists**, there are priests and bishops who do not believe in it."

nailingit — February 18, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — February 18, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.

I suppose we can agree, then, that history is written from the perspective of the person doing the writing?

Also, Pliny (the elder) - the authority referenced for much of Julian Caesar history - had to be a bit tactful in what he wrote. He apparently wanted to live.

roger — February 18, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Are you trying to say this wasn't real?

roger — February 18, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — February 18, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

I think "..perspective of the person doing the writing" is an oversimplification since there are usually a wide range writing on any given topic and an accordingly wide range of primary sources and - at least in most areas - extensive ongoing research.

So while an individual writer will focus on specific issues, the reader can (and should) look at that range of secondary and primary sources. An example would be biography: look at the range of bios available over the years for Thomas Jefferson or for that matter, Herbert Hoover.

Or, for an other example, Howard Zinn. His *People's History* has a specific focus and as such brings primary sources that support that focus. But then again, we have the David Bartons of the field who make claims that don't stand up to a modicum of scrutiny.....

mr_basil_seal — February 18, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- I appreciate our music discussions. It caused me to research exactly the when & where I saw Pink Floyd.

I'm not too familiar with the Phoenix area. I had a friend from Vegas who moved there and invited me down years later for this show. It was only my second visit.

But I discovered it! I vaguely remembered it was University related which helped. I was surprised at how hard this was to find. It doesn't show on a lot of Floyd "archive" sites.

Tempe April 20 In 75'

nailingit — February 18, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — February 18, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.

After Guttenberg, what you say is quite true. Prior to then, it seems like a lot of what got written was based on verbal accounts or what was written earlier. (The Bible, for example.) While not a scholar or historian, I did go through a phase where I read about the Julian Caesars - I thought I Claudius was a great series, and was interested in the historical accuracy in Graves' narrative. Plutarch and others often referenced Pliny the Elder's Natural History as their source. Hard to say. Concerning the Druids - Pliny says Tiberius had his armies destroy their religious sites, but Suetonius says Tiberius suppressed them, and Claudius actually had them destroyed. Hard to say. I got the impression that Augustus and Tiberius banned a lot of what might be considered prejudicial to good order (the Jews were another group), but Claudius was the one who followed through.

But my earlier response - the oversimplification - was intended more to say it depends whether you're reading the Roman account or the British account.

roger — February 18, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ANYONE-The other forum is up.

nailingit — February 18, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Reasonable, civil persons can disagree without name-calling and disparagement. You are sometimes like a garden variety internet troll on here and I absolutely am not interested in fighting with you or anyone.

....Make a note of this please and refrain from denigrating me or my ideas so you can get your daily fight fix. :)

THAT IS HITTING THE NAIL DEAD CENTER ON THE HEAD!! Great profiling of the resident wannabe. BRAVO, WAY TO GO MANTHOU!!!!!

soapbox4u — February 18, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u — February 18, 2013 at 4:39 p.m

Oh gee, look who's talking.



kn_dalai — February 18, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — February 18, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Oh gee, Witty or Witless...! I mean - What no grammar corrections to offer?

soapbox4u — February 19, 2013 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see the resident weasel with the big brown nose is posting again. Before removing the gray bar feature, I came to the conclusion there would be nothing of substance with regards to any discussion brought forth by anybody on the forum by the little brown noser, licking away. Out of curiosity, I decided to temporarily remove that gray bar feature just to confirm my suspicions...

and I couldn't stop laughing.

Some things never change.

*kn_dalai — February 18, 2013 at 7:22 p.m.*

You were right the first time, friend.

goldenoldie — February 19, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum Login