Open forum, Jan 7-13

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279 comments

Comments

Nancy Pelosi wants Pres Obama to ignore Congress and raise the debt ceiling on his own, using the 14th Amendment as justification to pay interest on loans and Social Security payments due (Yes, Virginia, Social Security is an obligated payment and not a benefit of some sort). The Pres's people aren't as certain this approach would be legal. As near as I can tell, a major point is that this public debt must be appropriated by Congress. Not sure, but this whole issue may turn ugly in the next couple of months. I can see courts ruling in favor of the Pres declaring the debt limit invalid, and the House responding by refusing to fund gov't operational costs. And then we'll get to the Affordable Health Care plan and its implementation....

roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:19 a.m

Read the fourteenth amendment, not only does it not authorize the President to establish debt, it specifically invalidates debt not authorized by law. Authorized by law includes passing the House, Senate and signature of the President. If Obama borrowed without the Congress the debt would be invalid. There is no way to read into the fourteenth a provision that allows the President to incur more debt.

The Fourteenth Amendment.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:19 a.m.

In addition, section 5 of the fourteenth only authorizes Congress to enforce its terms.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Pope is rallying the troops and fighting back. All the news sources point to a petition started on the White House website last month asking that the Catholic Church be declared a hate group because of their position against gay marriage. Pope Benedict says enough is enough - it's time to stand up against the forces of "intolerant agnosticism" prevalent in so many countries today. He has repeatedly denounced attempts to remove religion from public debate.

Hmmm....

roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

The Government does not publish a list of "hate groups". They are published by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit organization. The first amendment would preclude government list or designations of groups based on their political positions.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The first amendment would preclude government list or designations of groups based on their political positions.*

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

Umm what about Homeland Security or the FBI? Do they not have lists of those they keep an eye on? Such groups as OWS, any of the anarchistic groups, what about the eco group that burned businesses equipment a few yrs ago and other like groups?

ELISI — January 7, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- As it's been discussed, Obama needs to keep the 14th as an option. Let the SC sort out the legalities. It's a shame this even has to be considered.

---

*The Obama Journey. From Dove to Hawk to Drone. What next, Godzilla?*

John Brennan, Counterterrorism Aide To President Obama, To Be Nominated As CIA Director

His tenure at the agency during Bush's presidency drew criticism from liberals when Obama considered naming him CIA director after the 2008 election. Brennan denied being involved in what the government called "enhanced interrogation techniques" during the Bush administration, but still withdrew his name from consideration.

In a letter to Obama at the time, Brennan said he was "a strong opponent of many of the policies of the Bush administration, such as the pre-emptive war in Iraq and coercive interrogation tactics, to include waterboarding." Many people consider waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods to be torture.

White House officials say they don't expect Brennan to face similar trouble this time around given his four years of service in the Obama administration.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/john-brennan-cia-director-nomination_n_2423462.html

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:29 a.m.

Might want to go read up..... Your argument isn't the point that is being addressed by considering making the 'debt limit' unconstitutional

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*If Obama borrowed without the Congress the debt would be invalid.*

What?!?

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:08 a.m.

Only debt authorized by law is valid. The passage of law in this country takes both houses and the President, therefore if authorized by executive order the debt would be invalid.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- Please see @ 8:05 and take notice.

---

The article in today's C about Paul Harris features a photo of Madore front & center.

I not only find this hero worship of Madore odd (although understandable as it seems to emanate from mostly old white conservatives) but this paper giving Madore press at every opportunity is getting old.

Maybe it's this paper's attempt at turning Madore into a caricature of himself.

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:08 a.m.

The "If" sets up a strawman argument.

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.
nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.

Where does the Constitution give the President authority to declare Congressional law unconstitutional?

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.

Well, I guess it is my turn; so, citing nailingit (8:08 a.m.) - "What?!?"

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

???

Intolerant agnosticism is hardly an attack on gay rights.

Regarding "repeatedly denounced attempts to remove religion from public debate..." I support the Pope's stance regarding religion and public debate just as I support those with other views should also have the right to public debate. Heck, we've publicly debated the subject of God and Christ to others here in the forum (as I have in the past). Seems to me, the elimination of a Christian entity's right to openly discuss religion is a direct attack against humanity. It is part of what makes our world such a diverse society.

Methinks it just another hate attack (one of many) against Roman Catholics. Anything they can drum up for attention as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — January 7, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Ahhh, the 113th.....

**The Republican War on Reality Continues**
—By Kevin Drum

A recent report from the Congressional Research Service concluded that cutting taxes on the rich had no correlation with higher economic growth rates. This is hardly surprising. Outside the right-wing think tank bubble, that's been the conclusion of practically every economist who's looked seriously at the evidence.

Nonetheless, congressional Republicans were shocked, and made their displeasure known. Shortly thereafter the report was withdrawn. Jared Bernstein calls this "existentially scary," because it means that nonpartisan analysis is becoming more and more impossible. Say something that contradicts a Republican talking point, and you'd better retract it. There's a budget markup coming soon, after all.

However, Steve Benen reminds us that this is hardly new:

This was consistently one of the more offensive hallmarks of the Bush/Cheney era. In 2005, for example, after a government report showed an increase in terrorism around the world, the administration announced it would stop publishing its annual report on international terrorism. Reality proved problematic, so rather than addressing the problem, the Republican administration decided to hide the reality.

Soon after, the Bush administration was discouraged by data about factory closings in the U.S., the administration announced it would stop publishing information about factory closings.

When Bush's Department of Education found that charter schools were underperforming, the administration said it would sharply cut back on the information it collects about charter schools.

And Bruce Bartlett emails to remind us that this attitude goes back even farther than that. Earlier this year, Newt Gingrich called the CBO "a reactionary socialist institution," a statement that came as no surprise to anyone who knows his history. After the Republican landslide of 1994, Gingrich did more than most to destroy congressional access to analytical information:

[http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/11/republican-war-reality-continues][1]

[1]: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/11/republican-war-reality-continues

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

I'm designating this comment to you, since you have provided multiple links regarding the discussion. Rather than entering a comment regarding the reasoning behind any type of petition, I prefer to give you this link to read through and form your own conclusion rather than the conclusions of others:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2012/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20121221_auguri-curia_en.html

goldenoldie — January 7, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 7, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.

Did you read the para starting "The Chief Rabbi of France,..."?

That is where theblaze, cna, frc, etc are starting from.

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The defence of the family is about man himself."

Op. cit.

Wouldn't 'humankind' be more accurate?

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


William Hilton Paul, the 19-year-old son of Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and grandson of former presidential candidate Ron Paul, was arrested Saturday morning for alcohol-related offenses at Charlotte Douglas International Airport, police said.

After arriving on a U.S. Airways flight from Lexington, Ky., police charged Paul, who lives in Bowling Green, Ky., with three misdemeanors, including consuming beer/wine underage, disorderly conduct and being intoxicated and disruptive.

Paul’s bond was posted at $750. He was released about two-and-a-half hours after he was booked at the Mecklenburg County Jail, county records show.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Lt. Blake Hollar told the Charlotte Observer that Paul “was possibly served alcohol on the flight."

He is scheduled to appear in court at 1 p.m. Tuesday.

hawkeye — January 7, 2013 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One could bold print this entire article. If it wasn't for a liberal or two, who else would try and save conservatives from themselves? The ongoing struggle, and if I may... sigh.....

**The conservative movement is still an elaborate moneymaking venture**

*The story of FreedomWorks' big Glenn Beck payout encapsulates the right-wing media*

The conservative media movement exists primarily as a moneymaking venture. As Rick Perlstein explained in the Baffler, some of the largest conservative media organs are essentially massive email lists of suckers rented to snake oil salesmen. The con isn’t limited to a couple of newsletters and websites: **The most prominent conservative organizations in the nation are primarily dedicated to separating conservatives from their money.**

..

And what are people who donate to this grass-roots conservative organization funded mostly by a few very rich people getting for their hard-earned money? **In addition to paying Dick Armey $400,000 a year for 20 years to stay away, FreedomWorks also apparently spent more than a million dollars paying Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh to say nice things about FreedomWorks, in order to convince listeners to send FreedomWorks money that FreedomWorks would then give to Limbaugh and Beck. It’s a pretty simple con.**

**Beck, meanwhile, also has a subscriber-based media operation, in which people pay his company money for access to programs where Beck expresses opinions that he was paid to hold. He also spent years telling everyone to buy gold from a company that pays him and defrauds consumers.**

..

No major right-wing media figures ever speak out against the widespread practice of constantly bilking credulous old people. Newsmax, a company whose email list is regularly given over to blatant get-rich-quick scheme hucksters, publishes basically every major and minor conservative columnist (and Lanny Davis).

..

**Apocalyptic hysteria is much more effective at getting people to open their wallets than reasonable commentary.** There are a lot of people whose livelihoods depend on keeping lots of conservatives terrified and ill-informed. The groups that exist to raise funds raise more funds when they endorse the crazier candidate.

So even if you don’t particularly care that regular conservative Americans are constantly being scammed by their media apparatus, you should still worry about the influence of the scammers. **The fact that there is a lot of money to be made in acting like Michele Bachmann is part of why the House seems poised to blow up the U.S. economy. The fact that conservatives have that much contempt for their own true believers neatly explains how they govern when they actually have power.**

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2013/01/07/the_conservative_movement_is_still_an_elaborate_moneymaking_venture/

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal



**Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang ‘lies from the pit of hell’**
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

Washington (CNN) – A U.S. congressman is attracting attention and criticism for an online video that shows him blasting evolution and the Big Bang theory as “lies from the pit of hell” in a recent speech at a church event in his home state of Georgia.

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, the Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell,” U.S Rep. Paul Broun said in an address last month at a banquet organized by Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Georgia. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

Broun, a medical doctor by training, serves on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Speaking at Liberty Baptist Church’s Sportsman’s Banquet on September 27, he said that “a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth.” [http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/congressman-draws-fire-for-calling-evolution-big-bang-lies-from-the-pit-of-hell/][1]

[1]: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/congressman-draws-fire-for-calling-evolution-big-bang-lies-from-the-pit-of-hell/

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 7, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.

I'm sure there is a reading somewhere that 'proves' the Constitution makes a legal drinking age stipulation illegal.....

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This one is kinda funny:

"In all these dialogues the Church speaks on the basis of the light given her by faith." Op. cit.

Pretty sure there is a logical fallacy there......

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I heard this idea floated awhile back and dismissed it as silly. Time to take a second look, and for the reasons Mr. Krugman points out.

A new mantra? **Just print the damn coins!**

**Be Ready To Mint That Coin**

Should President Obama be willing to print a $1 trillion platinum coin if Republicans try to force America into default? Yes, absolutely. He will, after all, be faced with a choice between two alternatives: one that’s silly but benign, the other that’s equally silly but both vile and disastrous. The decision should be obvious.

For those new to this, here’s the story. First of all, we have the weird and destructive institution of the debt ceiling; this lets Congress approve tax and spending bills that imply a large budget deficit — tax and spending bills the president is legally required to implement — and then lets Congress refuse to grant the president authority to borrow, preventing him from carrying out his legal duties and provoking a possibly catastrophic default.

And Republicans are openly threatening to use that potential for catastrophe to blackmail the president into implementing policies they can’t pass through normal constitutional processes.

Enter the platinum coin. There’s a legal loophole allowing the Treasury to mint platinum coins in any denomination the secretary chooses. Yes, it was intended to allow commemorative collector’s items — but that’s not what the letter of the law says. And by minting a $1 trillion coin, then depositing it at the Fed, the Treasury could acquire enough cash to sidestep the debt ceiling — while doing no economic harm at all.

So why not?

It’s easy to make sententious remarks to the effect that we shouldn’t look for gimmicks, we should sit down like serious people and deal with our problems realistically. That may sound reasonable — if you’ve been living in a cave for the past four years.Given the realities of our political situation, and in particular the mixture of ruthlessness and craziness that now characterizes House Republicans, it’s just ridiculous — far more ridiculous than the notion of the coin.

So if the 14th amendment solution — simply declaring that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional — isn’t workable, go with the coin.

This still leaves the question of whose face goes on the coin — but that’s easy: John Boehner. Because without him and his colleagues, this wouldn’t be necessary.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*It’s easy to make sententious remarks to the effect that we shouldn’t look for gimmicks, we should sit down like serious people and deal with our problems realistically. That may sound reasonable* Now that’s a more reasonable action....

Reasonable action

1. Propose a balanced budget
2. Stick to the budget and live within its means.
3. Don't act like we just elected you "Dictator” There is another part of the solution, get together and work with the House..

I guess if you say something enough there are a few people who will start believing in it...*We don't have a spending problem in the US , we need to fix things with a balanced approach..* Per Mr. Obama...The healthcare system is dragging our economy down is one of the problems... Really, you just figured that out and you still think Obamacare is good for the country and its citizens??? He must have brought some of that Maui wow back or is he still on vacation??? 4 years is a long time to be on vacation.. Isn't it?

He always wanted to be the Savior so why not put his face on it..

vanwadreamer — January 7, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIoa7W...

A politician with heart and resolve? I like Hagel for Sec Def.

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eveb9H...

This is representative of today's obstructionist republican. You can't deal with those who have zero respect, except vote them out. We are in for a RW purging the next few elections, seems like losing just creates a bigger cult like bubble for many. Idiocy driven by $$$ and "God" paid a price this election and many to come.

*It’s easy to make sententious remarks to the effect that we shouldn’t look for gimmicks, we should sit down like serious people and deal with our problems realistically. That may sound reasonable* — if you’ve been living in a cave for the past four years.Given the realities of our political situation, and in particular the mixture of ruthlessness and craziness that now characterizes House Republicans, it’s just ridiculous — far more ridiculous than the notion of the coin.

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


....
*He must have brought some of that Maui wow back or is he still on vacation??? 4 years is a long time to be on vacation.. Isn't it?
He always wanted to be the Savior so why not put his face on it..*

vanwadreamer — January 7, 2013 at 2:12 p.m.

If you had something other than unsupported talking points, there'd be no need to attempt personal attacks.....

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:50 a.m:

As usual, the media entities indulge in taking a segment of a statement rather than the statement in its entirety. If they would have connected the rest of the address WITH the one you pointed out, they wouldn't have had the article spin they sought.

So often in today's society, in general...people are looking for that one quote to support their cause rather than looking for the overall picture. Of course in the manner speaking of the Pope's address, he will support what he has studied all his life from a theological stance. If anybody would take the writings of the Holy Bible and connect it to what the Pope has stated, it's far from a personal or public attack against any segment of society, other than the fact that he believes the original designation of the family unit has changed.

-and-

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

You said *"Wouldn't 'humankind' be more accurate?"*

My response...

Only if that is how it's quoted in the Bible. Otherwise, wouldn't that be construed as changing the course of the Biblical writes? After all, God created Man, not Humankind....according to the bible.

goldenoldie — January 7, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAFybJ...

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything.

~Plato~

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 7, 2013 at 4:41 p.m.

Not really sure this:
"The defence of the family is about man himself." is a quote from the bible....

And note that the tenor of the para starting with "The Chief Rabbi of France,..." from your source is the basis of the argument that theblaze, et al runs with and was the topic being discussed. So maybe your argument should be pointed to them.

Which really is what your claim " ...Pope's address, he will support what he has studied all his life from a theological stance. If anybody would take the writings of the Holy Bible and connect it to what the Pope has stated,...." points to.

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

Doesn't Article I section 8 of the Constitution specifically grant exclusive authority to Congress to "To coin Money"?

Also, another basic flaw in Krugman's opinion is the definition of "default", not being to borrow more and defaulting are two entirely different things.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

Doesn't Article I section 8 of the Constitution specifically grant exclusive authority to Congress to "To coin Money"?

Also, another basic flaw in Krugman's opinion is the definition of "default", not being to borrow more and defaulting are two entirely different things.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.

frobert- Please see @ 8:05 and take notice.

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDMiY6...

The Pope seems to be creating his own controversy...

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- Not sure what you're not understanding. Maybe this article will lend some clarity.

**Platinum Coin Ban By Greg Walden, Republican Congressman, Would Nix Debt Ceiling Tactic**

Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is not analogous to a small business balancing its books, however. It's more like a small business that has received a bank loan, and then simply refuses to pay back the bank. Raising the debt ceiling does not by itself authorize any new spending by the federal government; it only authorizes the government to continue to meet obligations to which it has already agreed: interest payments on the debt, the war in Afghanistan, Social Security benefits, federal employee salaries and other initiatives authorized by Congress.

The platinum coins, moreover, would not grant Obama any additional spending powers. Money could only be withdrawn from the Fed to pay for projects already explicitly approved by Congress. So even if Obama minted a $5 trillion coin, he would not immediately have $5 trillion to spend. He could only withdraw money to pay off debts and meet federal payroll. If Congress objects to any of those activities, it can pass laws to end them. The $1 trillion coin, therefore, could not spark inflation unless Congress suddenly began authorizing trillions of dollars in new spending projects.

Walden's legislation also implicitly acknowledges that "the platinum option" is, in fact, legal. While the 1996 law uses very broad and explicit language, it was designed to permit various types of coins to be minted for collectors, and it has not been challenged in court for a use akin to raising the debt ceiling. Should Obama ever invoke "the platinum option" -- and he has so far offered no indication that he would seriously consider it -- the existence of Walden's bill could be used to support a court case in defense of the move.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/platinum-coin-greg-walden_n_2425940.html

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Trying to ride on Basil's coattails, assuming he has a clue what he is talking about? Well I've got news for you.

frobert — January 7, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 7:55- *Trying to ride on Basil's coattails*

If you are referring to me, I began the discussion concerning the coin thing. Again, what are you not understanding?

*assuming he has a clue what he is talking about?*

Addressing someone else to cheap shot another poster? :((

*Well I've got news for you.*

And what news would that be...frobert?

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFY8Xl...

Holy crap!!

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Conservative republican Evangelicals, Teavangelicals, whatever the hell else you call yourselves, one things for sure, you've got NOTHING in common with Jesus. ZERO!

**Idaho Medicaid Won't Expand Under Obamacare, GOP Governor Says**

Idaho won't expand Medicaid to cover more poor people under President Barack Obama's health care reform law, Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter (R) told legislators during his State of the State address on Monday.

Otter is the 10th Republican governor to reject extending Medicaid health coverage to more poor residents. The governor's decision contradicted a unanimous recommendation from a commission appointed by Otter that the state take advantage of the available federal funding to broaden Medicaid.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/idaho-medicaid-obamacare-governor_n_2426983.html

nailingit — January 7, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldieoldie, Gen.5:2 says God created man, male and female he created them, or something like that. So it sounds to me like man is the species and male and female are the gender of the male species. I think mankind includes all of the man species. When he said mans days were numbered to 120 or 140 years(I don't remember which) HE was not talking about just the male gender of the species, but the male and female as both were killed in the flood. I may be wrong but that is what it sounds like to me.

rincon1 — January 7, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seattle is having a gun buy-back program. Sponsors are:

Amazon
Five Point Café
Nate Miles, Eli Lilly
Nucor Steel
PEMCO
Seattle Police Foundation
SEO Moz

Can you envision Clark County doing something similar?

manthou — January 7, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ahh yet another post taking the word of God out of context to try and destroy others and their beliefs.
Is it cause they do not understand what a parable is?
par·a·ble
[par-uh-buh l] Show IPA
noun
1.a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2.a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

Jesus told his disciples that not everyone would understand his parables. “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear” (Luke 8:10). Did Jesus mean to say that he was deliberately confusing his listeners? Very likely not. Jesus was speaking from experience. He was aware that some who heard his parables refused to understand them. It was not that they could not intellectually understand them, but rather, their hearts were closed to what Jesus was saying. They had already made up their minds to not believe. God can only reveal the secrets of his kingdom to the humble and trusting person who acknowledges the need for God and for his truth. The parables of Jesus will enlighten us if we approach them with an open mind and heart, ready to let them challenge us. If we approach them with the conviction that we already know the answer, then we, too, may look but not see, listen but not hear or understand.

The parable posted talks about nations of people gathered, NOT republicans, NOT conservatives, but NATIONS of people...each is judged, NOT as a group BUT as a individual.....sheep are symbolic of those who follow and obey Christ, while the goats represent those who chose not to follow Jesus and His example on earth.
He owns (we have be bought and redeemed by him at a price - 1Corinthians 6:20, 7:23) and is the true shepherd over those willing to follow him and do what he says. He does not, however, claim ownership or responsibility over the goats! They are those who are rebellious and stubbornly refuse to follow anyone anywhere. Their ultimate fate is to be thrown into the lake of fire.
The real point of the message, as you have likely guessed, is the difference in behavior between the two groups. One group is merciful, kind, generous, loving and willing to do whatever it takes - even at their own expense - to help out another fellow human ('the least') in true need. Jesus regarded their actions as personally affecting him. Because of their unselfishness and giving behavior they inherit God's kingdom. The other group is selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed and self-seeking. They are rejected in the judgment.

ELISI — January 7, 2013 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My God, even using scripture which speaks to helping the poor is denounced by some.

So happy to have it translated...what ego!

It's no wonder religious affiliation in our country is waning.

And wane it will.

Sad.

Whatever happened to Christians with good hearts, good intentions and a higher purpose?

I guess nowadays they run for office, starve the poor and tell their followers. "that's out of context".

sigh.....

(I thought a deal was a deal:(

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


rincon1, it was Genesis 1:27 (Catholic version) which states "God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them."

When you read on, it is in Genesis 2:20 - 2:25 which explains how woman was created from man.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess he doesn't understand when Jews are "born again", they consider themselves birthed from the seed of Abraham and declare themselves spiritual Jews.

This line of abstract thinking would have thrown WW2 Cermany into a tailspin! :)

So much hate and vitriol in the world today, and most of it seems to emanate from "God fearing" folk, to include Christians, Muslims etc,

There doesn't seem to be a difference of faith when it comes to hate.

**Bernard Fellay, Head Of Traditionalist Catholic Sect, Says Jews Are 'Enemies Of The Church'**

Bishop Bernard Fellay said Jews are the "enemies of the church" during a recent radio talk, but denies any anti-Semitic connotation to the rhetoric. Here, he is pictured in 2009 during an ordination mass of the Society of St Pius X, which was declared "illegitimate" by the Catholic church. (Fabrice Coffrini/AFP/Getty Images)
The head of a controversial Catholic sect says that Jews are "enemies of the Church," but the sect has denied any anti-Semitic intentions.

Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X, declared Jews "enemies of the Church" during a talk that aired on a Canadian radio station, the Catholic News Agency recently reported. Fellay's remarks took place on Dec. 28 at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Chapel in New Hamburg, Ontario.

Fellay, discussing negotiations with the Vatican in 2012 concerning the Society's future, said the following during the address: “Who, during that time, was the most opposed that the Church would recognize the Society? The enemies of the Church. The Jews, the Masons, the Modernists.”

Fellay said Jewish leaders' support of the Second Vatican Council "shows that Vatican II is their thing, not the Church's," according to the Catholic Register.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/bernard-fellay-jews-enemies-of-the-church-radical-catholic-sect_n_2425711.html

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My bad. I thought we had some original thought earlier. Just cut & paste stuff.

Sheesh.

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/jesus-will-separate-sheep-from-the-goats.html

http://www.rc.net/wcc/readings/jul26.htm

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Stanley McChrystal: Gun Control Requires 'Serious Action'**

Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal came out in favor of gun control restrictions in a Tuesday morning appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"I spent a career carrying typically either a M16, and later a M4 carbine," he said. "And a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It's designed to do that. That's what our soldiers ought to carry."

Said McChrystal, "I personally don't think there's any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we've got to take a serious look -- I understand everybody's desire to have whatever they want -- but we have to protect our children and our police and we have to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that."

McChrystal, though he resigned in disgrace in 2010 after a Rolling Stone article, is still revered by many as a top general, and his comments are significant for a former member of the military. If he does continue to advocate for gun control, he could be a significant voice in a movement whose opposition appeals to machismo.

"I think serious action is necessary. Sometimes we talk about very limited actions on the edges, and I just don't think that's enough," he said.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/stanley-mcchrystal-gun-control_n_2431063.html

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.

Okay, this will probably set some people off in a negative manner with what I'm about to say, but the Bible quoted the beginning of mankind as *Adam and Ev*e, not *Adam and Steve*.

I speak with regards to the teachings of the Bible, not to what humans have *evolved* and certainly not to what I believe when it comes to homosexuality. That opinion, I keep to myself.

Anybody who has taken the time to read the Holy Bible will be familiar with one of the ten commandments, *Honor your father and your mother*. They will also be familiar with the following verses which supports the family unit:

Proverbs 1:8:, Proverbs 6:20, Psalm 103:17

There are others, but I felt these supported my opinion that *in* the Holy Bible, the original intention of God/Yahweh was for man and woman to procreate...to populate God's Green Earth which he created. It was written in the text of the Holy Bible for those of the same sex to attempt that which the body was not intended without violating a hurtful sin. Leviticus 18 supports this as do other verses of the Bible. Since there is a continuation of verses from the Bible which considers homosexual acts as hurtful sins, it is no surprise to me that the leader of the Roman Catholic Church would take such a stance.

*In the eyes of the church,* no matter what denomination...we are *ALL* God's Children. For those who religiously follow their faith, they follow the word of the Heavenly Father. According to Roman Catholic followers, in order to be true to the faith of the Lord, it is their choice to follow the path written. If the person follows a different path which violates the rules of their faith, then it is not considered one to follow the path written by Yahweh/God. Simple as that.

My final note I refer to all to read Romans 2:1 (Catholic version) which states the following:

"For this reason, O man, each one of you who judges is inexcusable. For by that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you do the same things that you judge."

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


the Bible is full of good stuff. Leviticus 15:19 King James Version-there's a lot of versions, btw.

"And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the evening."

Must be rough, putting up in a motel one week a month to be "apart".

mrd — January 8, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Scott Lively, 'Kill The Gays' Bill Supporter And Evangelist, On Trial For Crimes Against Humanity**

On Monday, Scott Lively will tell a federal court why he supports Uganda's extreme persecution of gays and lesbians.

The U.S. evangelist and anti-gay crusader's trial begins Jan. 7 in Massachusetts. Lively is being sued for crimes against humanity by the organization Sexual Minorities of Uganda, represented by the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).

From the CCR website:

The suit alleges that Lively’s involvement in anti-gay efforts in Uganda, including his active participation in a conspiracy to strip away fundamental rights from LGBT persons constitutes persecution. This is the first known Alien Tort Statute (ATS) case seeking accountability for persecution on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

The ATS allows suits to be brought to American courts by non-U.S. citizens who claim to be victims of violations of international law (such as crimes against humanity) perpetrated outside the U.S.

While Lively's name may not be familiar to the majority of Americans, he is known to those fighting for LGBT rights in Uganda. According to the New York Times, the suit against Lively alleges that he "conspired with religious and political leaders in Uganda to whip up anti-gay hysteria with warnings that gay people would sodomize African children and corrupt their culture." Vince Warren, executive director of the CCR, argues in a Washington Post blog that Lively calls himself the "'father' of the anti-gay movements" in Uganda.

In 2009, the African nation considered enacting a bill, referred to by some as the "Kill the Gays" bill, that would have imposed the death sentence on active homosexuals living with HIV or in cases of same-sex rape, per the Times. **As part of the bill, an undefined category of "serial offenders" would also be eligible for death.** The Times notes that one of Lively's Ugandan contacts proposed the bill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/scott-lively-kill-the-gays-bill-supporter-on-trial-crimes-against-humanity_n_2425003.html?utm_hp_ref=religion&ir;=Religion

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to argue religion, but...

It makes perfectly good sense to me that an organization depending on the number of its followers for "strength" would want said followers to multiply - to procreate. Any sexual act that didn't have a probability of resulting in more followers would be discouraged.

I'm no biblical scholar, but I seem to recall "seed upon the ground" to be discouraged as well. Masturbation doesn't get women pregnant. No one gets pregnant in same sex sex acts.

I suppose the fly in the ointment here could be vows of chastity. But if that's only a sectional thing...

With 7B people on this rock, dialing back on the procreation just might be a good idea (in my humble opinion). Therefore making the subject, somewhat, antediluvian.

I dunno.

Drift — January 8, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Man! I feel like it's Sunday! Glory!

I wonder if Sandusky will become a theologian.

I can't imagine being associated with catholicism. When leaders of a church will do anything to protect child rapists, I would think parishioners would be looking for a new home, rather than enabling this type of criminal perversion with their money & time.

**In Roman Catholic Child Molestation Files, Judge Weighs How Many Priest Names Can Be Blacked Out**

LOS ANGELES -- The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles must release the names of church leaders and pedophile priests identified in thousands of pages of internal documents recounting sexual abuse allegations dating back decades, a judge ruled Monday.

**The decision by Superior Court Judge Emilie Elias overturned much of a 2011 order by another judge that would have allowed the archdiocese to black out the names of church higher-ups.** Victims, as well as The Associated Press and Los Angeles Times, argued for the names to be public.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/roman-catholic-child-molestation-files_n_2425444.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Therefore making the subject, somewhat, **antediluvian.**

Gracias! A great new word to be added to my screeds!

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A correction and forgot to make it earlier. @ 6:19 when *Jews* are "born again", they consider themselves birthed from the seed of Abraham and declare themselves spiritual Jews.

Insert *Christian*.

While we're on the subject, I've always been fascinated with elitist sounding labels and missions devoutly religious people see themselves as having.

Leaders who adorn themselves in lavish garb, speaking to peasants who worship them and demanding their subjects conform to rules which govern the commoners sex practices.

Holy Crap Indeed!!

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 8, 2013 at 7:40 a.m.

On a logical level, I agree completely - Too damned many people trying to live off of finite resources. Removing the religious based objections to various forms of birth control would go a long way toward slowing growth, and at the same time (hopefully) reduce the "need" to resort to abortion.

But how do we enforce this? The Chinese have been struggling with this for years,and are still trying to figure out how to keep people from killing off baby girls so they can try for a son.

I believe I've recommended some plan of enforced sterilization here in the past - and have been widely condemned.

And in this country we have the race battles - How do we maintain our White European majority and keep the Brown people from south of the border from taking over?

roger — January 8, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtUC9...

plan of enforced sterilization

How do we maintain our White European majority and keep the Brown people from south of the border from taking over?

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.

See: ELISI — January 7, 2013 at 9:58 p.m

Re: Parable.......

The wording from your link, the infallible head of the church, is using language that supports a male dominated society.

And claiming 'holy' or 'word of god' or most any other argument from authority to support an issue that is sociological - a science - with such claims is lower a level than the unsupported claims we see spouting out of frobert.

So, if either of you actually have proof - real data - then it should be brought forward.

Not making personal attacks, empty claims, and not responding to the question.

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW:

26 Then God said, “Let us make **humans** in our image, in our likeness. Let them rule the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the domestic animals all over the earth, and all the animals that crawl on the earth.”

27 So God created **humans** in his image.
In the image of God he created them.
He created them male and female.
28 God blessed them and said, “Be fertile, increase in number, fill the earth, and be its master. Rule the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that crawl on the earth.”

Guess it depends on who is doing the translating......

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version;=GW

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.

I have no problems providing links with data to provide you. I guess you do not consider the actual Pope Benedict Christmas 2012 Address to the Cardinals and Priests via the Vatican a viable link. As far as the Catholic quotes from the Holy Bible that I provided, they are easily found on sites such as

www.catholic.org

www.vatican.va (New American Bible)

So if you do not consider these as viable sources for my quotes, that is your choice, my friend. I'm merely discussing the original topic of the address by Pope Benedict which got others in an uproar...enough to attempt labeling a religious entity as a hate group rather than seeing what the Pope had shared as his translation of words from the Holy Bible. My opinion was merely declaring an understanding of his address.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*But how do we enforce this? The Chinese have been struggling with this for years,and are still trying to figure out how to keep people from killing off baby girls so they can try for a son.*

roger — January 8, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.

May I suggest we start with GOP Congressional Republicans and their offspring?

*I believe I've recommended some plan of enforced sterilization here in the past - and have been widely condemned.*

I don't remember condemnation as much I do a lack of of explanation on your part. Such as implementation, guidelines, policy manifesto, aligning forced sterilization with concepts of American democracy etc. etc.......& etc., when asked.

*And in this country we have the race battles - How do we maintain our White European majority and keep the Brown people from south of the border from taking over?*

roger — January 8, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.

Being facetious?

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 8:52 a.m.

SINCE the discussion was based on the words of the Roman Catholic Faith, the information you sought should have been taken directly from the Vatican, not from another site.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.

So, tell us how you know the translation of the book of stories you chose to use is more accurate.....

" *I guess you do not consider the actual Pope Benedict Christmas 2012 Address to the Cardinals and Priests via the Vatican a viable link.*"

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion; I quoted from it more often and discussed it more than you did. All I have done is ask why you accept the wording and its implications.

Implications that are the basis of the writing at frc, theblaze, etc.

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.

So, tell us how you know the translation of the book of stories you chose to use is more accurate.....

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.

The only acceptance in writing I speak is that I accept the reasoning behind the address by the Pope, based on his years of experience in the Roman Catholic Church.

I share my understanding of certain verses of the Catholic version of the Holy Bible, not for profit but to share my perspective. Web-based corporations need to sell their stories. I do not.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.

What makes you assume that I know the translation is more accurate? I went to the horse's mouth for information I sought. Would you go to the Blue Mosque for writes on the Catholic faith?

Regarding your comment @9:16 a.m., you failed to mention my comment in it's entirety which states "I have no problems providing links with data to provide you. I guess you do not consider the actual Pope Benedict Christmas 2012 Address to the Cardinals and Priests via the Vatican a viable link. As far as the Catholic quotes from the Holy Bible that I provided, they are easily found on sites such as

www.catholic.org

www.vatican.va (New American Bible)

So if you do not consider these as viable sources for my quotes, that is your choice, my friend. I'm merely discussing the original topic of the address by Pope Benedict which got others in an uproar...enough to attempt labeling a religious entity as a hate group rather than seeing what the Pope had shared as his translation of words from the Holy Bible. My opinion was merely declaring an understanding of his address.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*SINCE the discussion was based on the words of the Roman Catholic Faith, the information you sought should have been taken directly from the Vatican, not from another site.*

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

http://player.rv.va/vaticanplayer.asp?language=it&tic;=VA_3L2W5SGY

Christmas greetings to the members of the Roman Curia (21 December 2012) (Video)
[English, French, German, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Spanish] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2012/december/index_en.htm

So, which translation is the most accurate?

And, anybody note a dearth of variety in the languages on offer?

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"...Blue Mosque for writes on the Catholic faith?"*

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

You are equating different TRANSLATIONS of your book of stories with different religions?

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


SB: You are equating different TRANSLATIONS of your book of stories with different faith's analysis of other belief systems?

Which rather implies that you are considering various xian sects as separate faith systems.....

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Enough of the silly books of stories and their followers; time to look at reality.

Australian report - so they are in the middle of summer and using C degrees.
"According to a peer-reviewed study by the Australian-based Global Carbon Project, global average temperatures are on a trajectory to rise a further four to six degrees by the end of this century, with that rise felt most strongly over land areas. It would be enough to tip Tuesday's 40-plus temperatures over much of mainland Australia close to 50 degrees in some parts.
"Those of us who spend our days trawling - and contributing to - the scientific literature on climate change are becoming increasingly gloomy about the future of human civilisation,'' said Liz Hanna, convener of the human health division at the Australian National University's climate change Adaption Network.
''We are well past the time of niceties, of avoiding the dire nature of what is unfolding, and politely trying not to scare the public,'' Dr Hanna said. ''The unparalleled setting of new heat extremes is forcing the continual upwards trending of warming predictions for the future, and the time scale is contracting.''

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/records-will-keep-tumbling-with-blistering-heatwaves-here-to-stay-20130108-2cetq.html

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.

MY book of stories???

Guess you don't understand my point very well which is actually quite simple. You don't go to other sites, taking quotes from entities not directly attached to the information you seek. You go directly to the site for which the information originates. Regarding the quotes of the Holy Bible, Catholic version...they match the Bible I possess, thereby authenticating in my opinion, the verses I mention as the same utilized by the Pope with regards to his address.

As far as translation from the video to English...yes, there are a few words which must be rewritten in order to state the same phrase. Anybody who can speak a language other than the first they were taught knows that. I do not question the wording of the address by the Pontiff to the cardinals and priests. I have no reason to question it. It is your choice AND the choice of commercial web-based sites, whether or not to question what is read. I have nothing to gain from sharing my statements OR my comments...merely sharing my perspective. I understand why commercial web-based sites and their reasoning behind their tactics and what they gain through readership but I do not understand what it is you intend to gain other than a superiority issue that might be flaring in the works...that is, unless you're hiding something.

My thoughts here...what is YOUR motive in your attempts to pick apart my statements in order to form the conclusion you seek when all that I provided were actual verses from the Catholic Edition of the Holy Bible and shared my understanding of those verses and how they pertained to the Pontiff?

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Reality bites when you open your eyes and see the truth for what it is rather than what it is you assume.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil Sir, Don't we have better things to do that beat issues like this Agnoziam...Check out this link.. great reading.. it might help with your sources...

http://www.holybible.com/resources/KJV_DFND/

Nail,

I saw on the nightly news last night that Obama may indeed print thos Platinum coins, they even showed the picture of it and it had his face printed on it..

vanwadreamer — January 8, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's some more reality:

"So . . . what is the bottom line on the attribution of the recent sea ice melt? My assessment is that it is likely (>66% likelihood) that there is 50-50 split between natural variability and anthropogenic forcing, " http://www.climatedialogue.org/

Dr. J Curry, who, at best, can be labeled a skeptic of the IPCC findings.

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"As far as translation from the video to English...yes, there are a few words which must be rewritten in order to state the same phrase."

Good to see you have yet another area of expertise..... Perhaps you can show us your CV.

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I do not understand what it is you intend to gain other than a superiority issue that might be flaring in the works...that is, unless you're hiding something.*

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 10 a.m.

enough said....... sigh.....

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"In all these dialogues the Church speaks on the basis of the light given her by faith."

Your source, care to explicate?

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**In Other Bizarro News**

KIRKSVILLE, MO (KCTV) -

A Kirksville man is in jail accused of a gruesome killing.

Paul R. Potter, 49, is accused of hacking off the arms of a person and throwing the appendages at witnesses. Potter is being held on a $1 million cash only bond. A judge said he would have to put up $100,000 cash to be released from jail on charges of second-degree murder, second-degree arson and felony tampering with a motor vehicle.

Adair County Coroner Brian Noe said the victim was a male.

"They were just neighbors," he said.

Noe said he could not discuss further details until fingerprint and DNA information confirms the identity of the person slain.

Noe said the slaying has upset the community.

"It's awful," he said.

Police responding late Sunday to a report of a disturbance said they found Potter near a burning car and two nearby apartments on fire. A police report says officers saw Potter throw two objects at witnesses that were later determined to be human arms.

An armless body with multiple stab wounds was discovered in a nearby apartment.

Potter was charged Monday. He does not have a court date set.

hawkeye — January 8, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.

Yes and No. I'm mentioning the concern of the Right (e.g., Pat Buchanan) who believe we have a certain culture in this country; one based on our European Anglo-Saxon heritage. I guess they've come to terms with Irishmen, Frenchmen, Italians, etc, emigrating to this country. And they've even accepted our Blacks (as long as they act properly), seeing as how we brought them here. But those pesky Mexicans (and other Latinos) saying they're going to come here and continue speaking Spanish, and oh by the way screw our immigration policies because this was their land before we stole it from them - that's more than some of those guys can tolerate. And then when we hear that Whites will no longer be the majority race at some point in the future because Hispanics have large families and their numbers are growing - Well, both Whites and Blacks have a problem with that.

Whatever. I'm not losing any sleep. I've met very few people who are here for any other reason than to be Americans - whatever that means.

roger — January 8, 2013 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QEWfq...

**House Republicans Advancing Women's Issues**

[UPUI] Unexpectedly this morning, House Republicans introduced House Resolution 1950's hoping to advance women's issues while silencing left leaning critics.

HR 1950's would provide up to date materials and information to American women via mail and PSA's. HR 1950's is designed to focus on women's issues Republican leaders feel are, paramount, such as the latest techniques in cooking, cleaning and child rearing.

Monetary procurement for HR 1950's will be extracted from funds currently allocated for brain cell research.

Conservatives are citing this as a win win.

After sponsoring the measure, Michele Bachman introduced her newly founded "expensive but worth it" line of cooking utensils.

now breaking...

7:14 A spokesperson for House member Louie Gohmert was quoted as saying "Representative Gohmert, in spite of his concerns about micro-wave technology, will enter his yea vote.

http://wwwliantigniuntraceablenews.com/news/2013/jan/07/

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**WARNING: Weed rant ahead!**

Man... I read this a few days ago and started to comment then. I had words on the screen and everything! And *then* my browser crashed. Poof. Words gone. I was thinking, maybe, it was for the best. But see, I haven't been able to sleep. The only thing I've had to eat in the last few days is a couple'a tablespoons of stale tuna - out of a bowl I found in the back of the fridge.

I've gotta get this off'a my chest before I go all cardiac. Pardon any typos, will ya? My hands are shaking like a politician hooked up to a lie detector.

Follow me back. Back in time. Back to December 28, 2012. There was this article in some obscure newspaper. This one! Right here!

http://www.columbian.com/weblogs/loca...

Let's start with the title, shall we? Is this more of that tartrazine journalism? "Slippery slope," is generally a negative connotation, is it not? In my view, a question mark at the end of it would have been apropos to the statement quoted in the article.

As it stands, however, we've been informed at the get-go the piece will be biased. So, I suppose, its content shouldn't come as a surprise to the reader, eh? But *it is* what we find under the title what has me all a tizzy.

(quote)
For one, Battle Ground Mayor Lisa Walters says she cast a vote against I-502. For her, the no-vote was a no-brainer. Her son battled heroin addiction and, Walters said, started by smoking pot. She’s worried that legalizing pot for people who are over the age of 21 will only increase accessibility for young people.

“I personally know the effect of what just smoking a little weed can lead to,” Walters wrote in an email. It’s not such a slippery slope for her.

“Another big concern for me is that pot is an addictive substance and I wonder where the money for treatment will come from.” she said. “I say this knowing that currently in Clark County we don’t have a lot of options for treatment for any addiction.”
ends)

Oh, wait a minute... I see now the title of the piece isn't a quote. Not by the mayor of Battle Ground. It's an editorial comment from Tyler Graf. Is there a Hearst College of Journalism? I wonder where Tyler's degree is from?

I shall speak to the mayor's comments, momentarily.

Page two, right after these words...

"Buy my book, I need a beer!"

Drift — January 8, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal



**Weed Rant, the Next Page**

"Her son battled heroin addiction and, Walters said, started by smoking pot. She’s worried that legalizing pot for people who are over the age of 21 will only increase accessibility for young people."

I have a family member strung out on heroin. She started with vodka. She's never cared much for the weed. The "gateway effect" has been repeatedly debunked. It's a cause and effect thing. Here's an old Time article about it. If requested, I can produce a PDF clinical study that comes to the same conclusion. The Time thing is easier reading though.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/29/marijuna-as-a-gateway-drug-the-myth-that-will-not-die/

Battle Ground's mayor must not be aware that drug dealers don't ask for proof of age during transactions. That the only way to have a regulatory system for something like that to be in place is for the product to fall under the purview of a regulatory agency. Joaquin Guzman nor little Johnny, in math class, give a fat rat's about the age of some kid with cash.

No, Walters hasn't a clue about weed. Not what it can, can't do or any other darned thing about it. And she goes on to prove that with her statement about addiction.

“Another big concern for me is that pot is an addictive substance and I wonder where the money for treatment will come from.”

I suppose I shouldn't beat her up too bad here. The fact is, some folks do become psychologically addicted to weed. Yep. Just like Big Macs, soft drinks... here, another something for you to gander:

https://www.google.com/search?q=marijuana+addiction+chart&hl;=en&tbo;=u&tbm;=isch&source;=univ&sa;=X&ei;=_4rsUOX_DqbAiwLkxIG4CQ&sqi;=2&ved;=0CDYQsAQ&biw;=1024&bih;=574

Whoa! Big URL there, eh?

"Withdrawals" aint no thang, man. A buddy of mine had to "clean-up" for an annual U.A. He said the dreams he was having were vivid. I've been thinking about quiting for a few days just to check that action out! Yeah, you're right. I'm joking. I'm not quiting... I'm strung out ;^)

My point to all of this is the rampant ignorance and the refusal of folks to do a little research instead of trying to blame a loved ones frailness' on "something."

It really sux when elected officials...

Oop, the fellas are here. Time to go pitch shoes.

Drift — January 8, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*We were the only ones spared the heat.*

**2012 Hottest Year On Record For Lower 48 States, NOAA Confirms**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/2012-hottest-year-on-record_n_2433210.html

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 10:26 a.m.

You must really be bored. Rather than discuss the issue originated by a statement by Roger for which I responded then you decided to throw in your two-cents worth, you'd rather question my statement regarding translation of a foreign language into English??? When I watched the video you presented, it was not in English. What I provided via the Vatican website was the English translation.

Would you like an example of English Translation from Greek and how the sentence structure is different???

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 4:15 p.m.

Roger's post (roger — January 7, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.) is about a petition. If the petition is based on frc, theblaze, etc. stories, the Vatican address seems to be where those stories found their voice.

I noted that that address uses language that is sexist and is - in part - provides the authority for the advocacy shown in frc, theblaze, etc.

Your claim that your choice of 'holy words' is the most accurate is based on "In all these dialogues the Church speaks on the basis of the light given her by faith." At best a sophistic argument.

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.

Unfortunately, that made little difference......

"The previous three months—April, May, and June—also ranked among the top five warmest for their respective months. July 2012 marks the 36th consecutive July and **329th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average**. The last below-average July temperature was July 1976 and **the last below-average temperature for any month was February 1985.** It was the second warmest July in the Northern Hemisphere, behind only the record warmth of 2010. The Southern Hemisphere had its 13th warmest July on record."

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2012/7

mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 8, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.

How best can I explain this to you so that you may understand. Guess I'll start with a quote in Greek:

"Για το λόγο αυτό, Ο άνθρωπος, ο καθένας από εσάς που οι δικαστές είναι ασυγχώρητη. Για με αυτό που εσείς κρίνετε άλλη, καταδικάζουμε τον εαυτό σας. Για να κάνετε τα ίδια πράγματα που σας κρίνουν."

Translated word for word from Greek to English, reads specifically -

For it the reason this, man, the everyone from you where the judges are unpardonable. For me this where you judge others, condemn the himself yourself. For to do the same things, where you judge.

So you see mr_basil_seal, the translation in itself has what we would term grammatical errors to the untrained eye, although the Greek language is quite formal in it's structure. A combination of two or three words could translate into something different. There has to be some restructuring of translation from one language to another in order for the statement to be understandable in English. Some may translate the exact same phrase and come up with something different, but the context of the statement should read this -

"For this reason, O man, each one of you who judges is inexcusable. For by that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you do the same things that you judge."

Unfortunately, this could be part of the reason why those who are encouraging the labeling the Catholic Church as a hate group have mistaken the translation of the address combined with taking segments of his address out of context rather than understanding the entire address as a whole and that my fellow forum dweller, is my point.

It's a likely possibility...

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops...let me try that last paragraph again:

Unfortunately, this could be part of the reason why those who are encouraging the labeling OF the Catholic Church as a hate group, have mistaken the translation of the address combined with taking segments of his address out of context rather than understanding the entire address as a whole...and that my fellow forum dweller, is my point.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also mr_basil, the reason why I believe the words coming from the Vatican website as well as words coming from the Catholic.org website were the most accurate is because of who is the head of the Vatican and the Catholic churches and who it is that quoted the group pushing for labeling of the Catholic Church or the group itself who is urging such senseless action. Seems to me it would be senseless to base fact on statements by any entity other than the two I mentioned.

Would you trust Fox News as a trusted website when it comes to issues regarding our climate or would you trust the data provided by NOAA???

Get my point yet?

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And mr_basil, I was merely sharing my perspective according to the information provided by the sites which honor the Pontiff with full intention of getting the holy word out to the people as accurately as they possibly can...even with the translation of his address and the word of the Holy Bible.

There's no need to try to dissect and diminish the point I share, just because your thoughts are different from mine. It is almost as though you appear to find it a threat and find the need to seek and destroy anybody's point of view which differs from yours. You have shared a good argument for which I have tried to answer any questions you have had, although it may have been a bit vague to me...so it's no wonder my answers may have appeared to skirt around the subject.

goldenoldie — January 8, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal




"Some may translate the exact same phrase and come up with something different, but the context of the statement should read this "-WTH, pick and choose your meaning today, folks, it's on sale!

Would you trust Fox News as a trusted website when it comes to issues regarding our climate or would you trust the data provided by NOAA???--WTH, pick and choose your source today, folks, it seems YOUR site can provide all you need! Sheesh, what a joke.

Get out the holy word, there must be a reason. Anyone know why?

Definition of "faith"-a belief that cannot be substantiated, proven, nor has any evidence to support said belief, but is accepted. Hhmmm......

mrd — January 8, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — January 8, 2013 at 6:09 p.m.

Get out the holy word, there must be a reason. Anyone know why?

Yup. Anybody happen to catch that "championship" football game the other day between ND and the Tide? If not, you didn't miss anything, crappy game. But during that game, there was a commercial that I've seen a few times before with ex-football coach Lew Holtz. He was standing there hawking "The Catholic Church" and asking those that have strayed to please come back. Now to me, that shows desperation. They are broke and they are begging ex-members to come back for their influx of cash. Pure and simple. It all comes down to cash.

hawkeye — January 8, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*But during that game, there was a commercial that I've seen a few times before with ex-football coach Lew Holtz. He was standing there hawking "The Catholic Church" and asking those that have strayed to please come back.*

hawkeye — January 8, 2013 at 6:30 p.m.

Holtz is also a republican operative working for Fox News. He's a close bud with Hannity and appears on his show often. Here he is shilling for the worst, least productive Congress in recorded American history.

**Lou Holtz Quarterbacks for GOP**

The former football coach, whose resume includes the likes of University of South Carolina and Notre Dame, sent an e-mail Tuesday on behalf of the NRCC urging support for Republican candidates. In the fundraising e-mail Holtz said, "I'm writing to tell you - Quarterbacked by John Boehner and Pete Sessions - our Republican Party has an excellent team of limited government, pro-freedom individuals ready to take the field in Washington and defeat the other team's liberal agenda."

Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/10/06/lou-holtz-quarterbacks-gop#ixzz2HRYGAmZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7c4L2...

His commercial appearance must have been painfully scripted. On his own he tends to get lost in his own babble.

nailingit — January 8, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 8, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


politics and religion aside, I was hoping ND would get stomped. As an overated team-check their schedule-I thought they were overated based on being ND. I really believe the Ducks could have given Alabama a much better contest. If it weren't for Stanford, they would have had a shot. Seeing as each team-the Ducks and the Tide- lost only one game to a good team, that would have been a much better BCS championship game. But then there's the $$$ that the teams, such as ND bring to the table, and maybe the Ducks don't.

Anyway, go Seahawks! It would be nice to see a small market kinda team do well. Seeing as how they're taking on the #1 NFC seed-Atlanta-on the road, I wish them well. Luv the underdog and the "Hawks" gotta be that.

mrd — January 8, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 8, 2013 at 6:30 p.m

Correct. Seen the commercials also. Catholic church membership is declining heavily, especially in Europe. No wonder the pope has taken to tweet these days. Yeesh. Did you see the story about the Dutch priest who threatens to publish names and pictures of a few members who told him they are leaving his church? Says he wants the other members to talk to them and convince them to stay. Big uproar currently over that one.

We used to have a parish priest for each little village in Germany. Now ours back home has to serve four parishes and he needs to make the rounds. They cannot get enough priests and the congregations are shrinking. The pedophile scandal has also hit Germany badly and as a result, even more are leaving.

However, having said that, seems our Protestants over there (we only pretty much have one kind, Lutherans) experience the same shrinkage, both in parishioners and priests. One reason why so many of the new priests are from Asia or Africa these days. Europeans decline to serve. Faith is on the decline over there. That info, by the way, comes from relatives active in both churches. Not making this up. And not trying to smear any denomination here.

luvithere — January 8, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 8, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.

Big uproar??? Maybe for the town but otherwise??? It's one priest, one church and *a lot* of media outlets taking advantage of increased readership.

"Faith is on the decline over there."

From my perspective, faith is not on the decline...just the attendance in buildings designated as "churches" is on the decline. Too much trash talk and highly publicized issues with certain religious leaders is what is pushing people away these days. Also...too many "churches" popping up everywhere. It almost seems there's a competitive edge with various religious entities when it appears that in any bigger town (in the USA especially), you'll easily have 5-6 churches (even more)...all different denominations within a one-mile radius...all competing for your attendance in their house of worship...some even becoming too big for their own "britches" so to speak.

Publicizing creative church-related events to gain attention and popularity...I sometimes wonder if it's truly for the good of the people or if there's another ulterior motive. It's no wonder there's a media circus when it comes to churches in the news...and these churches all have their own spin when it comes to the word of God. Just who *can* anybody believe any more??? Could be some of the reasoning behind the decreased numbers of parishioners at these houses of worship while others are forever gaining followers...almost a war of popularity rather than what is intended in a house of worship.

People are always looking for answers to things they don't understand. When they hear what it is they think is the answer...they're hooked. When they find out otherwise, they are disenchanted with what they'd original thought...they're discouraged, then they seek other houses of worship for the answer or decide to stay away altogether, feeling frustrated...even bitter to the house of worship in general.

For those who follow the word of God, it is my opinion that more people are realizing that their church is not necessarily a stone structure with stained glass windows and an altar. Their church is their beliefs and their dedication to following the word of God. Helping one another comes from within the heart, not the church. Forgiveness is something we all can practice without having to enter a church. Learning not to be so hasty in judgment is a life lesson that everyone could definitely improve upon. Understanding we are different from one another and we can come together to achieve a greater good. Being kind to one another....well, I think you get the picture of what it is I say.

And to those that do not believe in a religious "God," they still follow their beliefs religiously...their own religion. Having faith in ones self and with one another is the number one life lesson we should follow whether or not one believes in God.

We're all still learning.

goldenoldie — January 9, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Moderate Republican group to remove ‘Republican’ from name, welcome Democrats**

The Republican Main Street Partnership, a Washington-based group that has promoted moderate GOP lawmakers and policies, will remove the word "Republican" from its title and welcome center-right Democrats in 2013, Yahoo News has learned.

The organization's board of directors voted Tuesday morning to scrap party identification from its title and be known simply as "The Main Street Partnership." The group's new president, former Ohio Republican Rep. Steven LaTourette, told Yahoo News that he plans to begin conversations with Blue Dog Democrats and centrist groups in the coming months.

"The goal is to try and fill the void that is the middle," LaTourette, who resigned from Congress this year, said. "The American political system is like a doughnut: You've got sides, but you don't have anything in the middle, and it would be my goal to work with Republicans and Democrats who want to find the path forward to getting things done and compromise."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/moderate-republican-group-remove-republican-name-welcome-democrats-191019543--politics.html

It's about time! This is what we need! I wish them well, now..."git er done folks!"

ELISI — January 9, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Gold,
sorry to disagree. Faith itself is on the decline in Europe. Not just church going behavior, faith. Just no way to spin it - more and more identify themselves as non-religious or atheists. It is what it is. And the Dutch uproar? Yes, it is an uproar. We are talking privacy laws here also. That goes way beyond the guy's own parish. It's a big thing in that country.

And we do not have 5-6 denominations back home in my little area of the woods, which I was referring to. We got 2. Period. And we can't get priests as there are simply none. So the towns have to share one. Goes for protestant church as well.

As I said, I was not trying to smear anybody or anything. Just stating what I see and what seems to be discussed by some that are much more in the know than myself (not in cellar, referring to other reports). It was a reply to Hawk discussing commercials for the church. The church itself admits their membership is in decline and they do know they have a perception issue these days.

luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7PggJ...

Wake up Obama!

Reclassify pot as the herbal remedy it is.

nailingit — January 9, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi, bingo! Thanks for sharing. Only way we can try and solve this mess we are in by working together and stopping the moronic labels. Time for the boys to stop blustering and finally earn part of their paycheck!

Apropos paycheck...at work, so time to work. Have a good one, all!

luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Misc postings of goldenoldie -- January 8, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. --January 9, 2013 at 6:56 a.m.

Note that the petition was started 4 days AFTER the address. Look up when the story was picked up by the sources you claim used 'bad translations'. Jan 4.......

mr_basil_seal — January 9, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 9, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.

Also see:

**Exile on 'Main Street'**
By Steve Benen - Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:31 AM EST

Nearly a year ago, Republicans for Environmental Protection gave up. The group didn't end its mission, exactly, it just decided to drop its party label. After years in which the Republican Party grew increasingly hostile towards science, environmental protections, and conservation efforts, "Republicans for Environmental Protection" was out; "ConservAmerica" was in.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/01/09/16431015-exile-on-main-street

mr_basil_seal — January 9, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 8:52 a.m

"The "If" sets up a strawman argument."

You might want to look up the definition of "strawman argument".

frobert — January 9, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 9, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.

Show us.

Whilst you are at it, perhaps you could address

mr_basil_seal — January 7, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.

Also.

mr_basil_seal — January 9, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You might want to look up the definition of "strawman argument".

frobert — January 9, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.

strawbert @ 10:14- You're making yet another unfounded statement concerning said subject? At some point I would think.....

nailingit — December 29, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.

You should look up the definition of "straw man fallacy" as you obviously have no clue what it means.

frobert — December 29, 2012 at 3:07 p.m.

nailingit — January 9, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 9, 2013 at 10:36 a.m

You made the claim that I was setting up a strawman fallacy, the burden of proof is on you. My statement that if something happens then it has consequences, does not in any way shape or form fit a strawman fallacy. You made a false claim, now you don't even try to defend it.

As far as addressing your post at 8:05, it appears that even President Obama agrees with my position, that should be proof enough.

frobert — January 9, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.

No offense was taken. I agree with what you stated regarding the number of people attending the churches being on the decline...that's nothing new. It's been happening for decades but unless each and every citizen of each nation has been asked and their identity and their responses recorded in prior years as well as their current status in order to compare, how can one assume that faith is on the decline? Maybe it's just that more are opening up and admitting they are non-religious or atheists, just as more followers are also opening up and admitting their faith as our global population continues to grow. I see it as a shift of sorts.

I am also aware your response was to hawkeye...and I decided to share a comment from my perspective. It was your choice to respond to me. I didn't force you, luv.

Why is it so many find it disconcerting when someone who believes in God shares what they believe to be true about religion in an open discussion website? Right away non believers go on the defensive, even grouping together with other non believers...maybe because some feathers have been ruffled, who knows??? Possibly an issue of insecurity, not knowing whether or not God exists.

Fear of the unknown, possibly???

And why is it that the topic of Christianity is so feared by those who profess to be a non believer???

goldenoldie — January 9, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi GO, no offense taken here either. But let me ask you this. Why do you not want to believe that faith is on decline? That atheism is on rise? Just asking. A real scientific poll, by the way, does not need to ask each and every citizen, but that's another topic. That's also my area of expertise, so I do know what I am saying.

I also do not see that any non-religious person here in cellar feels threatened. The topic of Christianity or any other religion is no threat to me. But a discussion means at least two people, or it becomes a monologue. I was just trying to participate in a discussion. I really doubt that non-believers feel any kind of threat whatsoever. But to turn this around: Why is it that believers have to band together when others discuss non-belief? Could that also be a fear of the unknown? Again, Gold, not just directed to you - just a question I have.

luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


May I chime in here?

I am always mildly amused when I hear the descriptors "believer" and "non-believer" used to lump everyone in two huge categories.

Some may not believe in a God, but they might believe in what science tell us about energy: it never dies. Or the truth of quantum physics and what that tells us about our interconnectedness and the collective conscience. Or fill-in-the-blank.

I am not lecturing. Just making a point that most of us likely believe in something, but there is a wide range of truth.

manthou — January 9, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

Luv, it's not a matter of what I want. It's a matter of coming to the conclusion whether or not faith is on the decline or on the upward swing. As manthou put it so well in her 4:24 pm comment, most of us likely believe in something...and yes, collectively speaking as a diverse array of whatever that something is. I have discussed this subject with several people over the years...those who have turned away from the church in whatever religious affiliation they had been. Of course, this is my statement for which I'm sure someone would want the data to support, lol...but that's neither here nor there in this discussion - in my opinion. Anyways, maybe 75% of those I who shared in the discussion said they still believe in what they were taught over the years when it comes to religion and the Bible (not all were Catholics, either). The rest weren't sure if they were atheist or agnostic. They too had the same perception that their belief in the Lord doesn't mean they believe in a structure with stained windows and an altar or a hall. It is what comes from within that decides the extent of a person's faith.

And luvithere, you shouldn't have to explain the direction of your discussion. After all, isn't this what an open discussion is all about???

Regarding your question which reflects mine and the banding together of like-minded individuals...my thoughts on it are that this is the course of human nature. Heck, the last election was a distinct representation of that!!!

..

Manthou...your amusement to the descriptors believer and non-believer reminds me of the descriptors of Republican and Democrat. Don't know why we've been taught from the beginning to label everything...guess it's so that we can differentiate between the two mindsets but in the end...we're all the same. Each of us laugh and talk and eat and sleep and share our thoughts and our blood is the same color as the next person!!!

And for what it's worth...I'm glad you chimed in!

goldenoldie — January 9, 2013 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I belong to the church of 'Fill-In-The-Blank'. In addition to being extremely well populated, it teaches me we should not allow our personal faiths to overtly influence our political process and how we structure society for the common good of all. Outside of that, it's all good.

Not many rules, but that's one of em'.

nailingit — January 9, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


8))

goldenoldie — January 9, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, well said. it's all good. GO, definitely all good, we like to discuss and sometimes we disagree. What a boring world it would be if we all agree all the time.

Currently, I am a very strong believer in the goodness of the dinner I just prepared. I believe it will be very tasty. :)

luvithere — January 9, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Everybody believes in something. If they don't, they frequently kill themselves.

Throughout our history, some believed in the gods, some in The God, and others who didn't believe in anything they couldn't interact with (usually of the scientific variety).

As for the major religion, Christianity, doesn't The God say to love everyone, forgive your enemies, treat others like you want to be treated?

Didn't Jesus say that none can come to God except through Him, and nobody can come to Him unless God calls him?

So, what's the problem here? Some are called, others not. Some live by their own code of right and wrong, which happens to mirror the ten commandments. Others live according to a God who has quite a few rules...for every day, every activity, every emotion.

The only god that's causing problems is from Islam. Not many gods demand their followers kill anyone who believes differently. Yes, I know the Old Testament, but if you're going to use that to falsify my argument, then you're going to have to 1)state WHY each God did that, and in followup, why only ONE of them still practices that.

Oh, I answer few replies that aren't about the topics I've presented. Sorry basil.

iconoclast — January 9, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


iconoclast — January 9, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, so they do worship the same god as Christians and Jews. They consider Abraham, Moses and Jesus to be profits of their faith.

frobert — January 9, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As for the "major religion" your quotes, Christianity, blah blah.There are a few BILLION Muslims, Hindus, and Buddists that might disagree with your assesment, and generally, that's the problem.

As if you could see one....

Each God? I use upper case letters -I quit-this is ridiculous. As if the religious folks would listen or care to discuss objectively, could be fun

mrd — January 9, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And after three days of this crap, nobody has answered the question---- If they were actually going to teach religion in the schools, which religion would it be?

hawkeye — January 9, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And after three days of this crap, nobody has answered the question---- If they were actually going to teach religion in the schools, which religion would it be?*

hawkeye — January 9, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.

The Church of Apophaticism?

nailingit — January 9, 2013 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Okay folks...I am about to ask a request of you and would like to iterate that I am in no way showing any disrespect to any person who does not believe in God/Jesus Christ. I am trying to understand why you say God/Jesus has never existed so here's my request:

The burden of proof is in your hands that God/Jesus Christ does not and never has existed. Please provide undeniable, concrete evidence to support your argument. Blogs, opinions and theories do not count as evidence.

I'll await your answer(s).

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll play, but know that I've no opinion about what someone else believes.

Though particle physics tells us it is possible for matter to be in two places at once, to pop in and out of existence, to change behaviour, etc., this is only applicable to particles. Not whole human beings. There is magic in the universe. There is plenty we don't understand, and may never. I just wanted to get that out there before continuing.

Science tells us billions of years ago there was a Star in this part of the galaxy. A Star many times larger than our Sun. That Star went supernova. That Star's explosion resulted in the formation of not only our Sun, but all the heavy elements we find around us. Oxygen and carbon came later. We, and everything else, are a result of a Star's death and our Sun's creation.

In fact, you and I are billions of years old.

Left over material from the Sun's creation coalesced. It's a gravity thing. Our Solar system contains both metalic and gaseous planets. We reside on a metal rock. A rock at just the right distance from our Star; not to cold, not to hot.

Several billion years go by. The Earth cooled. Water arrived. Organic molecules formed. They clumped together (it's a charge thing). The molecules became increasingly more complex (it's a entropy thing. sorta.) Due to the environment many of these complex structures began to form in a similar manner, though becoming more and more complex. Molecules attached to molecules. Molecules within molecular structures.

One day one of them split. Both parts containing mirror images of the other. And another. And another. Mitosis was born.

Skip ahead. Cells are replicating. "Stuff" is using the Sun's energy to live. Yes, live. "Stuff" is creating byproducts from the process. Oxygen is introduced into the atmospere.

Skip ahead...

Well, you get it.

I marvel at this. The wonders of the Universe. The serendipity of our existance. The particles passing through my body as I type. That biological system so complex there's much about it we don't understand.

I marvel.

Our Sun is my god. Our Sun and the Star that born it, its father. Some say Luna played a role in the frothing of the seas we sloshed out of. A moon that at times becomes near invisible to the eye, as a ghost.

Yes, god exists.

No, I don't pray to the Father, the Sun and the Holy Ghost, but I do believe.

;^)

Drift — January 10, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I make no claim to atheism or agnosticism; rather, I'm one of those who considers the whole concept of religious belief unimportant - I believe that puts me in that category of 'nonreligious' that's gaining more popular use.

But that doesn't mean I ignore the discussions that arise; especially when they get to trying to define the social or political systems by a religious belief. I see ORGANIZED religion (e.g. a church) as a method of controlling people - and when we reject this, we're rejecting the power of that institution to control us. And that is what's most dangerous to the religious leaders of all faiths - arguing over whether a Muslim or a Christian is like whether a Democrat or a Republican - at least you validate the others existence. But when one declares them totally inconsequential....

roger — January 10, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I pretty much go along with what Roger said.

But more than that, I don't believe the burden is on me to prove there isn't a god but more on you to prove there IS one. In my 61 years, nobody has ever done that.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, thanks for sharing your inner thoughts regarding the discussion. It was quite appreciated!

Hawkeye, when someone comes back with the nanner, nanner comment of it's not up to me, it's up to you concept...that usually means you have no answer. Thanks for trying, though. And Hawkeye...there's always a first one to share such a question. Guess I'm your first to ask you, eh???

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 10, 2013 at 7:45 a.m.

Well my fellow forum dweller, may I say that I am quite impressed with your explanation and that the Sun is what you consider God. So well stated, my friend...and quite convincing.

To those who believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...it is believed they would not exist without the three. It is said that when the Sun's rays shine upon the earth, Heaven has opened its heart to the people. Scientifically speaking...without the Sun, we would not exist and our world would not hold life. So maybe when comparing the two concepts, religiously speaking as well as scientifically speaking...God IS our Sun and the Sun is God shining down upon us. I will continue to thank God for those wonderful rays of sunshine which have given us life...8).

You have provided an amazing concept well worth accepting.

Thank you, Drift!

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My question to you would be, how can I disprove something that doesn't exist in the first place? Sorry, it can't be done.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 6:39 a.m.

Nope, that is your job.

BTW, here's a bit of funnyness:

"Furthermore, concerning the erroneous concept of organic evolution, on October 22, 1996, Pope John Paul II declared that “new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis” (see John Paul II, 1996). But if evolution is to be considered more than merely a hypothesis, Adam disappears! Ultimately, then, how can it be, as Catholics allege, that humanity carries the sin of the first man? Should they not say, instead, that humanity carries the “sin” of the last primate from which we “descended” (as if primates could sin!)?" http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article;=2594

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, how do you know God doesn't exist in the first place? From the beginning of human existence, people have prayed to the heavens...tribes, entire nations...

Something must be up there that they're admiring for them to do what they done for centuries...and it's all documented evidence in historic museums, landmarks, churches, mosques and still in the ground waiting to be discovered.

So tell me this, Hawkeye...

Care to debunk historic evidence?

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal, apparently you too believe I must show burden of proof but basil...I was ASKING for others to show me proof that God/Jesus Christ doesn't exist. When I ASK the question, the response by those who don't have proof is typically reciprocated by them telling me to prove They do exist. Hard evidence historically speaking, proves that for centuries, all societies worshiped the heavens in one form or another. So tell me this...with all the hieroglyphics, petroglyphs, pictographs, scrolls, Bibles, Qurans, sanskrits, statues, icons and any other form of religious or historic documentation in the museums, churches, monasteries, caves, temples, mosques and what is still in the ground and is still being discovered which clearly displays some kind of worship...

care to explain how this isn't proof positive that someone or some thing didn't carry a strength so amazing, a strength to bring all to existence...to be labeled as God in whatever language shared???

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Uh, Goldie - If you watch Ancient Aliens on the History Channel, you'll see you're using the same starting argument the Alien Theorists use to justify that extraterrestrials were the gods our ancestors prayed to.

roger — January 10, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Praise God! A different take on "filling the coffers".

I've got a potato that looks like Buddha. Maybe I should put it on E-BAY. No doubt someone would buy it. After all, how could they prove it wasn't Buddha? ;)

**Claude Gilliland III, Texas Church Leader Outed As Sex Offender, Speaks Out About His Past (VIDEO)**

"I believe he's a good man. I believe he's a Godly man. He puts God first," Roye added.

WFAA notes that some parishioners have since defended their new pastor.

"If we believe in the redemptive work of Christ, then this man is a miracle," Rina Ramos said. "A man with a past makes a great pastor, because he has been there."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/claude-gilliland-iii-new-leader-texas-church-outed-sex-offender_n_2427658.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 9, 2013 at 12:42 p.m.

I guess I gave you too much credit. I had hoped you would take to heart the possibility that you were confused as to the process a 'trillion dollar coin' could be implemented and would read up a bit.

And then, irrationally on my part, you would acknowledge that error here.

But that didn't happen......

So, try again:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/01/a-platinum-coin-as-big-as-the-ritz.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/01/_1_trillion_platinum_coin_the_debt_ceiling_standoff_can_be_averted_with.html

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2013/01/harvard_law_school_professor_l042276.php

So, perhaps you could take your http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/07/open-forum-jan-7-11/#c217485 statement and augment it with some research.

Or are you thinking that your ipse dixit claims are to yet again to be sufficient?

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Joe Walsh Obamacare Opposition Prompts Tea Party Favorite To Suggest People 'Break The Law'**

Former Rep. Joe Walsh (R-Ill.), a staunch opponent of the Affordable Care Act, suggested people "defy and or break the law and engage in civil disobedience" in response to Obamacare restrictions or new gun laws.

"We may have to shed blood every couple hundred years to preserve our freedoms," Walsh told supporters at a rally, according to Chicago's DNAinfo.

Walsh also criticized conservatives who don't "understand we're at war [with progressives.]" DNAinfo reports:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/10/joe-walsh-obamacare_n_2447143.html

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 10, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.

I hadn't a clue. I don't have satellite or cable television any more, so I haven't seen the show. Got sick of all the commercials and reruns of reruns. Thanks for the info, though.

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**The proper reverence due those who have gone before**
by PZ Myers

"I want to try something, though, with the intent of getting a point about the history of humanity across. Let me reduce the Bible to an icon, a few pixels to stand for the whole thing, here:

Imagine that is a Bible sitting on a shelf. My tiny black bar of pixels is a placeholder to represent everything in it, not to minimize it; if you have a grand view of the Bible’s contents, that’s fine, those few pixels should then conjure up your memory of historic events and aspirations and people who loved and raised families and created art and fought for what they believed in. And for those of us with less romantic visions of the Bible, it represents thousands of years of war and folly and pain and loss. No matter what, it’s a big thing, a huge thing, and I’ve reduced it to a cartoon of the spine of a black-bound book for convenience. Just for now, keep in mind that it stands for 2000 years and the lives of hundreds of thousands or millions of people.

Here’s another representation. That picture to the left is one of the Laetoli footprints. Once upon a time in East Africa, there was a volcanic eruption that deposited a coat of fine-grained ash on the landscape, which was then wetted by rain to form a vast sheet like firm cement over everything in the region. Two, maybe three, people walked across the sheet, leaving their footprints behind in a material that would then harden in the sun, preserving their trail. We don’t know anything about who they were, where they were coming from, or where they were going. We can imagine; they were walking together, one person larger than the other (a man and a woman? A woman and a child?), in a barren landscape wrecked by the volcano. This was certainly a life-changing tragedy, a catastrophe that upset everything they hoped for. They were living through a disaster of Biblical proportions, and all we have left is a few lonely footprints, no other record of their life or their struggles remains." http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/01/31/the-proper-reverence-due-those/

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Gee. I wonder why Christian faith has plummeted in recent years along with church attendance...*

**Christian fundamentalists freak out over yoga in the military**

The exercise helps alleviate stress for traumatized soliders, but try telling that to the Family
With a temporary ceasefire declared in the war over Christmas, fundamentalist Christian conservatives are looking for other places that religion may be under attack — and one radical thinks that that place may be the military.

Tony Perkins, the head of the Family Research Council, a right-wing Christian think tank that has been classified as a hate group, has flipped out over a “wacky” new initiative being tested in U.S. military training programs. No, it’s not the end of “don’t ask, don’t tell” — it’s yoga and meditation classes.

A new Mind Fitness Training program being tested in the U.S. military has integrated yoga, breathing classes and meditation alongside other more traditional training regimes to keep soldiers calm and mentally fit and to reduce depression and use of alcohol and drugs. To Perkins, however, this new initiative is a stand-in for one’s personal relationship with God.

When he heard about the goals of the program — that yoga promotes relaxation, mental calm, productivity and restraint from substances— he exploded:

[“What a coincidence–so does faith! Unfortunately, the military seems intent on driving religion out and replacing it with wacky substitutes,” he said on his morning radio program. “They’ve added atheist chaplains, Wiccan worship centers, and now, meditation classes. But none of them are as effective or as constructive as a personal relationship with God. Unfortunately, though, it’s mind over what matters–and that’s faith.”]

Perhaps one shouldn’t tell Perkins this, but faith hasn’t really been keeping up its end of the bargain lately — at least as far as the mental health of service members goes. The suicide rate of active service members has skyrocketed in the last few years. In 2012, the U.S. military averaged one suicide every single day, with service members were — shockingly — more likely to commit suicide than be killed on the battlefield.

Meanwhile, there is already a disturbing pattern of aggressive Christian proselytizing and accusations of government-sponsored prayer in major military institutions, including at West Point and the US Air Force Academy, which some say is more divisive than healing. A Yale Divinity School study voiced “concern that the overwhelmingly evangelical tone of general Protestant worship encouraged religious divisions rather than fostering understanding among basic cadets.”

List to his whole rant:

Hear it & read more @ http://www.salon.com/2013/01/09/christian_fundamentalists_freak_out_over_yoga_in_the_military/

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Can Science Prove that God Does Not Exist?**

by Theodore Schick, Jr.

"God is a theoretical entity that is postulated by theists to explain various phenomena, such as the origin of the universe, the design of the universe, and the origin of living things. Modern science, however, can explain all of these phenomena without postulating the existence of God.1 In the words of Laplace, science has no need of that hypothesis.2 By demonstrating that God is not needed to explain anything, science has proven that there is no more reason to believe in the existence of God than to believe in the existence of phlogiston, the luminiferous ether, or Vulcan. This may explain why more than 90% of the world's top scientists disbelieve or doubt the existence of God.3

Scientists prefer natural explanations to supernatural ones, not because of any metaphysical bias on their part, but because natural explanations produce more understanding than supernatural ones. As Plato realized, to say that God did it is not to explain anything, but simply to offer an excuse for not having an explanation.4

The goodness of an explanation is determined by how much understanding it produces, and the amount of understanding produced by an explanation is determined by how well it systematizes and unifies our knowledge. The extent to which an explanation systematizes and unifies our knowledge can be measured by various criteria of adequacy such as simplicity (the number of assumptions made), scope (the types of phenomena explained), conservatism (fit with existing theory), and fruitfulness (ability to make successful novel predictions).

Supernatural explanations are inherently inferior to natural ones because they do not meet the criteria of adequacy as well. For example, they are usually less simple because they assume the existence of at least one additional type of entity. They usually have less scope because they don't explain how the phenomena in question are produced and thus they raise more questions than they answer. They are usually less conservative because they imply that certain natural laws have been violated. And they are usually less fruitful because they don't make any novel predictions. That is why scientists avoid them." http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/schick_21_1.html

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.

A blog....really??? A few footprints hardly meet up to the information contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Interesting read, though. How 'bout this one:

http://esciencenews.com/sources/msnbc.science/2012/04/20/ossuary.confirmed.oldest.christian.artifact

Or this one:

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/syria/dura-europos

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. (

So, first an attempt to 'shoot the messenger'.

Then two links that essentially support Dr. Myers' premise; that there is far more recorded history than what is 'shown' in the faerie tale collections.

Maybe you could explain why you thought those sources would be considered support for your claims.

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.

Well now, at least I've got ya thinkin' about it enough to pull up a scientist's point of view by someone else (rather than your own)... that supports Drift's heartfelt comment! How about something original by your thoughts...your philosophy on the subject, mr_basil???

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.

Really? Walk us through that; you know - some quotes from the sources that supports your point.

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Slightly off-topic, but relevant to a topic under discussion:

**15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense**

Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real
science, but their arguments don't hold up.

By John Rennie Scientific American
July 2002 issue

Besieged teachers and others may increasingly find themselves on the spot to defend evolution and refute creationism. The arguments that creationists use are typically specious and based on misunderstandings of (or outright lies about) evolution, but the number and diversity of the objections can put even well-informed people at a disadvantage.

To help with answering them, the following list rebuts some of the most common "scientific" arguments raised against evolution. It also directs readers to further sources for information and explains why creation science has no place in the classroom.

http://pactiss.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/15-Answers-to-Creationst-Nonsense.pdf

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,Paris,13 November 1787

kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

Faerie tale collections??? Who's shooting at who???

You are right. The two I shared wasn't enough to support my claims. There is far more recorded history that dates back to the origins of the Hindu god, Vishnu. Even farther back...evidence of religious offerings of those who died...ceremonial rites....some stained with red ochre...possibly with religious significance...and these date back some 25,000 years before the birth of Christ.

Then there was the Göbekli Tepe, a Neolithic hilltop sanctuary... possibly designated at the highest point of a locale in Turkey, maybe to worship a Sun God as Drift refers...maybe to be closer to Heaven. Even some statues had their hands together as if in prayer and t-shaped pillars with human arms were found which might represent God(s) of some sort.

Yeah, you're right. The first two posts weren't enough to substantiate my claim but if you check out what I've shared in this comment, you'll see where they're all leading to. The historic evidence is immense, mr_basil...and it dates back much further than the theories of modern-day scientists out to debunk the history of religion.

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

--Nevada GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Sharron Angle, floating the possibility of armed insurrection, interview with right-wing talk radio host Lars Larson in Portland, OR, January 2010

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Final thought...

Could Genesis 1 be the explanation by those who used scientific theory and utilized the reference of "God" in order to gain the attention of all to understand the beginning of the universe, to revere in its existence and how precious life truly is? Could it be that all religions were formed by scientific theories expanding from the origin of life and that the label of these scientific theories were looked upon religiously as the truth...and continue to evolve today???

Could it be that Jesus Christ was a popular scientist who shared his knowledge in a way for people to understand and other scholars/scientists found that a threat to all existence, hence the reasoning why so many have revered him??? After all, in the Bible it states he turned water into the best wine ever and was able to multiply loaves of bread and fish to feed the hungry masses. Scientifically, it is possible if you figure in a few concepts.

It is said he is the son of God...the son of the first one to define the universe and all that lives. Hmm...

Could it be why we have so many "Faerie Tales" as mr_basil_seal refers to bibles, Qurans, sanskrits...because of all the differing scientific theories which today, other scientists continue to try to debunk each and every one of them because they believe in the knowledge they possess as the truth???

I'll leave it at that!

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

So, basically your argument is that we should believe in faerie tales because 25,000 years ago (or 2,000 or whatever number) benighted people used supernatural claims to explain phenomena that scientific research has since been able to explain, right?

A bit more research that ties to Dr. Myers' premise:
"Of the 11 subterranean sites the team studied along northern Spain's Cantabrian Sea coast, the cave called El Castillo had the oldest paintings—the oldest being a simple red disk.

At more than 40,800 years old, "this is currently Europe's oldest dated art by at least 4,000 years," said the study's lead author Alistair Pike, an archaeologist at the University of Bristol in the U.K." http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120614-neanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Be Ready To Mint That Coin**
Should President Obama be willing to print a $1 trillion platinum coin if Republicans try to force America into default? Yes, absolutely. He will, after all, be faced with a choice between two alternatives: one that’s silly but benign, the other that’s equally silly but both vile and disastrous. The decision should be obvious.

For those new to this, here’s the story. First of all, we have the weird and destructive institution of the debt ceiling; this lets Congress approve tax and spending bills that imply a large budget deficit — tax and spending bills the president is legally required to implement — and then lets Congress refuse to grant the president authority to borrow, preventing him from carrying out his legal duties and provoking a possibly catastrophic default.

And Republicans are openly threatening to use that potential for catastrophe to blackmail the president into implementing policies they can’t pass through normal constitutional processes. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Should Mayor Leavitt run again?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecpa-ox2JB0

I guess it doesn't matter what century we are living in.

The idiocy of arguing some form of assault weapons ban would prohibit us from defending ourselves from American government tyranny/takeover is absurd on it's face. Iraq has no ban and look what happened to them.

Today is January 10th in the year 2013.

And speaking of tyrannical rule, Nixon turned 100 yesterday.

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Should Mayor Leavitt run again?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.

Absolutely!

Good morning btw.

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou, unless you care to truly engage here... Well, let's just say your occasional slumming doesn't become the editor of a paper.

How about instead of talking about Hollywood (Leavitt) we talk about that editorial in today's paper, *Perplexed about pot*.

Frankly, sir, that is some of the worst jounalism I've seen. The piece is truly rubbish. Were you involved in that? For shame, sir. For shame.

I've chores awaiting me at present. I'll address that heinous spectacle this afternoon.

Drift — January 10, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.

That would depend on his fitness regimen.....

Actually, I was wondering if you were going to note that D. Madore's $1k pledge sounded eerily like Prez. hopeful Romney's $10k bet .....

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal



mr_basil_seal @ 10:44- And yet another option is being bandied about. I wonder if our local constitutional expert will denounce this also without explanation.

**Debt Ceiling Escape Hatch May Be Found In Federal Scrip Program**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/debt-ceiling_n_2444667.html

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Drift — January 10, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.

Thanks. That editorial just about made me reactivate the facebook account that Matt claimed wasn't a 'real person'.....

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou says:

> Should Mayor Leavitt run again?

Then basil says:

> That would depend on his fitness regimen.....

WOW! Basil made a funny. Talk about miracles! Proof positive that God really does exist.

kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Proof positive that God really does exist.

kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

Previously covered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v;=8T_jwq9ph8k

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Come on Lou, you can do better than that.

Frankly I don't really care if he runs again, I live in Battle Ground and rarely go to C of V.

Check that, actually I don't really know if I go to Vantucky or not since it's impossible to figure out where the damn borders are.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How's Madore doing so far?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*How's Madore doing so far?*

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 10, 2013 at 1:05 p.m

see: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/07/open-forum-jan-7-11/#c217644

Might also want to address why he starts Columbian threads on his FB page then deletes them, taking the comments posted on the Columbian pages along with them.

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I appreciate your chiming in to change the perseveration, Mr. B.

I am not impressed with Mr. Madore's first days. His pre-start, actually, stepped on some ethical toes, so he should be careful what he promises to others. It looks to me as if he was trying to give something that was not in his power to give (free Clark County legal advice) to small town Clark County mayors in exchange for making sure they nominated "conservative" voices on the C-Tran Board.

I like his trying to streamline some of the permitting processes, however.

He had just better watch where he goes. There are policies and processes in place that he cannot avoid. He is not the CEO of Clark County. Yet. :)

manthou — January 10, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 10, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.

mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.

I just read today's pot editorial and it reminded Reagan's "Just Say No" program. It was great for a vintage flashback but informationally useless.

There seems to be a Columbian induced multi-pronged attack today against a plant.

Planticide?

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/10/opponents-of-legal-marijuana-regroup/#comments

A few weeks ago I received positive feedback from Lou B and C Metro Editor Craig Brown after suggesting the C run a feature on Pot legalization in WA. I suggested a comprehensive approach. Letter as follows:

Hi Lou, I just wanted to float this idea to you in case you don't check in. I've witnessed some pretty lame media coverage with our new pot laws.

Who better than the C to do this right. Interview our local politicians, a few locals, an activist or two and business entities who might get involved.

Profile other community models, and how diverse demographics have responded. Sounds like a series! :)

A good write might grab national media attention and bring some good publicity to the Couve? Maybe...

Anyway, just an idea and thanks for hearing me out. (and thanks for allowing the forum to continue, it's appreciated)

nailingit

..

I'm not self-inflated enough to think my suggestion had anything in the least to do with said article, but I would hope Lou B/Columbian would take their journalistic responsibilities in this area a little more seriously to say the least.

Come on Columbian, you can do it!

..

The War on pot continues...a Boston perspective.

*The Marijuana Policy Project, the leading voice in Washington for legalization, this week called Kennedy’s organization “extremist” in circulating a petition urging Kennedy to “drop out” of the group and appealing for donations with an image of Kennedy next to the words “Help Us Stop Him.”

The group accuses Kennedy’s organization of planning to “force marijuana consumers into treatment and marijuana ‘education’ classes.”*

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2013/01/09/criticism-skepticism-greet-patrick-kennedy-new-effort-keep-marijuana-illegal/dSjNTI92Nubt7Ma6YVdp0O/story.html

http://learnaboutsam.com/

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, where did that first star come from?

rincon1 — January 10, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow Lou, that's some hard work you're doin'.

Let's see here, Madork?

Tell me, are "the floodgates open" yet? Do we have 100% employment?

Maybe he's not doin' so good, what do you think?

As Capt. Picard would say, "Engage"!

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone else see something strange in this??

*Sandy Hook School Support Fund - United Way of Western ...
https://newtown.uwwesternct.org/
Dec 11, 2012 - In response, United Way of Western Connecticut in partnership with Newtown Savings Bank has created the 'Sandy Hook School Support Fund' that will be able ...*

Didn't the shooting take place Dec 14, 2012? SO, if the shooting took place on the 14 th of Dec, why was there a fund set up for the survivors 3 days before?

ELISI — January 10, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Drift, where did that first star come from?"

Therein lies the big question, eh, r-1? Not stars themselves, of course, but The Beginning. Yes?

I'm not a Big Bang fan myself. I think it's a copout. "There was nothing... well, sorta, pretty much, and then... BANG!"

No. It doesn't work for me.

My answer to your question is, I have no idea. Not a clue.

May I ask you a question? Darn, looks like I just did. Heh. What do you think lies outside of what is. I mean, if the universe is finite, what's on the other side of the border?
If it's infinite, how does that work?

You answer those questions... well, I'm not sure what would happen - exactly. But, I'm pretty sure your bronzed facsimile would be found in museums the world over.

Drift — January 10, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On some level, it must be fun to either hear or invent some of these conspiracy theories and float them on the right and watch them grow, that is if you neither care about truth or American lives. At any rate I'm sure it's quite lucrative.

I have a theory. Idiotic right wing conspiracies like this one are floated to the right by left wing politico's to ensure the vast majority of republicans aren't taken seriously.

**United Way: No, we didn’t know about Dec. 14 Sandy Hook shooting in advance**

The United Way of Western Connecticut said it rejects conspiracy theories claiming it knew about the Dec. 14 Newtown, Conn., school shooting three days in advance and leveraged that knowledge to raise money.

“It’s preposterous,” executive vice president Isabel Almeida told The Daily Caller Tuesday, dismissing what she called a “flawed” Google search result that suggests her organization issued a statement of condolence — and launched a support fund for the victims’ families — on Dec. 11.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/08/united-way-no-we-didnt-know-about-dec-14-sandy-hook-shooting-in-advance/#ixzz2HcBPQ6zX

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

Funny how people think. " 12 unions inflating the human capital cost". Especially since everything the employees have in wages and benefits were negotiated in good faith over time. These people work for what they have and deserve to keep it. If you or Davvid want to take that away from them, then it too should be negotiated in good faith.

As far as Madork goes, it will be interesting to see if he drowns since he tends to jump in with both feet without looking for hazards first.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I considered something, like, a server time stamp on the issue of the dates on the fund set up, but servers making a mistake is highly unlikely. Now computers only make mistakes when the person running them makes the mistake...

The google search does show the date the funds set up was Dec 11th, many times.

Not looking for conspiracies, just questioning the dates.

ELISI — January 10, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI - if there hadn't been so much contradictory reporting in the beginning, theories wouldn't be flying. I too question the date discrepancy.

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 10, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.

Care to prove your claim that the information gained by historic documents and artifacts are "faerie tales?" If you state the claim that religious documents are faerie tales, then much could be said about historic scientific theory being "faerie tales" as well.

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: I kinda like looking at conspiracy theories because sometimes they are so absurd they are right. It happens when people try to make sense out of the incomprehensible.

I do have to say this about the fundraising for the victims. I get it that folks wanna do something, anything. But.....what is the median price of the homes there?
I am not heartless, just practical. I am sure some of the families have favorite charities and causes. You just want to wave a magic wand and make this tragedy disappear.

I do know the post office was sending out a plea: No more teddy bears and stuffed animals, please! They could not process the volumes coming in and were having to give it all away.

manthou — January 10, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding Leavitt...

It has been stated from the beginning that he misled the voters when it came to the crossing project. Might I suggest he credits himself with time served as mayor and return to his old job...

..

Regarding Madore...

It has been stated by him from the beginning that he had an obvious agenda with regards to his attempts to stop the crossing project in its location and move it to the east side...and that he'd made it perfectly clear that he wants to ensure wasted spending is eliminated...that the people of Clark County get the most bang for the buck when it comes to county government spending. AND he's not wasting any time doing what he was elected to do which makes a few of the good ol' boyz a bit nervous.

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*if there hadn't been so much contradictory reporting in the beginning, theories wouldn't be flying. I too question the date discrepancy.
goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:32 p.m*

Exactly.

*manthou — January 10, 2013 at 3:37 p.m.

You just want to wave a magic wand and make this tragedy disappear.*

Many I have talked too and myself feel the same also. Is it cause of being female, mother, grandmother we wish we could take the hurt away? I can't imagine the pain of losing a child.
I have lost grandparents, parents, siblings, cousins, and a couple very close friends, they hurt bad enough.

ELISI — January 10, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay, I've done me chores. Pretty much. Had me a nap, too, though it was a short one (yawn). Let's have a look at that piece in today's paper, shall we? The editorial titled *Perplexed about pot*.

"Unfortunately, confusion — rather than enlightment — continues to hover like a cloud over the issue of marijuana in America. All the more reason for both proponents and adversaries of legalized recreational use of pot to abstain from jumping to conclusions. Americans simply need to learn more."

It isn't until one reads the article they'll realize just how ludicrous the opening paragraph is. "Ludicrous" because the whole piece smacks of ignorance. That, and poor journalism.

The Columbian admittedly (blindly?) rides the coattails of a N.Y. Times article (The Times! Oh, my!) They cite the many dangers of marijuana! The Times tells us today's pot is much more potent than yesterday's! (am I using too many exclamation points?).

That being true or not, aside, just exactly what does that mean? Does it mean that today, to catch a really good buzz, a person need only smoke half a joint instead of five?

Dangerous? How about cost effective... er, something like that.

And then the potency is connected to emergency room visits (yawn, sorry). Did you know that if you report to an E.R. and tell them you smoked a joint in the last (whatever time) that event will be logged (or, at least gleaned) as cannabis related. No, it's true. You can go off into intertubes land and see for yourself. *That* aside, how many of those visits resulted in a (cannabis) fatality? You can look that up, too.

Treatment programs? Yeah, it's like this, you do the treatment program or 90 days in the pokey. Nice statistic there.

And why in hell do the opponents of ending cannabis prohibition want to keep bringing the kids into the equation? I know of no one interested in allowing the kiddies to blow doobies as they study for their SATs. That's total straw man there, dood.

Oh, I got ahead of myself there, didn't I? I missed the withdrawal thing. I'd better hurry and cover that. I feel a bathroom break comin' upon me.

Have you ever witnessed anyone trying to quit anything? I mean, most anything; refined sugar, pop, Big Macs, porn, finger nail biting... they've a tendency to get rather tight.

The Columbian's editorial staff has disapointed me. Both their ignorance and lazyness are quite evident in today's piece.

You guys know my real name, address, too. Drop in and pitch a game of shoes. I'll school ya. And then discuss pot.

Drift — January 10, 2013 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.

I know you think what these union people are doing is "public service" but it's not. It's a job. "Public Service" is what elected officials do. You don't get elected to build water systems, sewers, or roads, perform maintenance of office buildings, or clerk in an office. These are regular jobs done by regular people that have the right to their jobs for as long as they can perform them.

As far as someone selling real estate on County time, maybe you should call Madore and have him look into it, sounds right up his alley. And no, I don't think that's right but then again, I don't have all the facts, do I.

As for the auctions of properties, they are posted in a certain place (I don't know where) and then auctioned off. It's the same everywhere, Multnomah County, Clackamas County, etc. I'm sure there is a set amount of time they have to be posted before the sale.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mayor Leavitt needs to be shown the door; he's been an integral part of a process, both as Mayor and as City Council member, to force the citizens of Clark County to accept a bridge project that benefits relatively few of us.

The book is out on Commissioner Madore. He's definitely make waves and shaking up those who prefer the status quo (a plus), but he's making some highly publicized blunders by suggesting courses of action that a little research would have told him weren't possible. These gaffes have come from his operation before - like when the lady (whose name escapes me at the moment) stated quite vehemently that Madore's experience as a businessman vs. Boldt's as a truck driver made Madore more qualified for the job. He really needs someone competent to work for him that will vette his statements before he announces them to the world.

roger — January 10, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Kind of interesting that nobody mentions this. Whoever has done target practice knows how tedious is to reload a clip. It is a pain in the butt and time consuming. That is the reason why we have large capacity clips available. Yes, as a secondary function it helps to shoot more than 10 bullets per reload in case of tiranny but that is another story."

Your "target shooting" is a great hobby. I'm down with that. It's fun-amusement park kinda thing. Why not keep it there? It seems you have the "fear" factor going for you on this one, even though having a loaded gun in the house is hundreds of times more likely to produce a suicide, murder, or accident. As far as protecting from "tiranny"[sic], forget it. Either way, any way, the government can and will out-gun you, and they will kill you-they've done it before. Wanna take 'em on? Good luck to you and your fellow Constitutional believers.

"The best pacifier is a good job and prosperity plus good mental health. Everybody productive and prospering keeps the mind busy and dreams become a reality". Which today, is little more than a pipe dream or fairy tale. Try selling that notion on Main St., ya know, that place where reality actually goes into effect.

mrd — January 10, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie, I agree with your outlook on Madore, and very well stated.

Anyone read the article, and the comments on FB a couple of days ago, on the development fee vote by the commissioners? There are obviously some who are ready to pounce on the guy for anything at all. In this case: it was about Madore needing an education...without themselves knowing what they are talking about.

[http://www.clark.wa.gov/pa/civil.html][1]

The few times I have ever attended Clark County Commissioner hearings, years ago, the Chief Civil Prosecutor was present as legal counsel, to answer the Commissioner’s questions.

Madore has hit the ground running. There are pros, and there are cons about that. As far as I see, I like the way he’s taking a pro active stance, in getting into the belly of the beast. Seems to me, that much of the criticism really stems more over resentment on his ideas on government, than anything else. But I guess there's nothing new about that kind of thing.

[1]: http://www.clark.wa.gov/pa/civil.html

kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Either way, any way, the government can and will out-gun you, and they will kill you-they've done it before. Wanna take 'em on? Good luck to you and your fellow Constitutional believers. -- mrd — January 10, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.

The Viet Cong, and many others, have used guerrilla warfare quite effectively.

kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I'm all for making waves and the such but Madore needs to learn "the business" and know what he's actually talking about before he busts a move. Yea, go shake it up but shake it up legally.

hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Either way, any way, the government can and will out-gun you, and they will kill you-they've done it before. Wanna take 'em on? Good luck to you and your fellow Constitutional believers. -- mrd — January 10, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.
The Viet Cong, and many others, have used guerrilla warfare quite effectively.
kn_dalai — January 10, 2013 at 7:14 p.m*

The United States is an unusual country. We've got a history and a proclivity to rise up and change what we determine is untenable.

The Declaration of Independence, the war with England, Canada, our own Civil War all attest to our independent spirit and to put into action our beliefs.

If a sitting President were to attempt to deny the populace a right guaranteed by our Constitution, many things would happen, and some would result in blood-letting. Obama didn't buy ammunition for “the weather center” as a mistake.

But we're also unusual in that we are a majority of decent, fair people. Dr. ML King knew this. The Negro in the South had no chance of overpowering the entrenched white power structure. He knew what he had to do: take television cameras with him to show the world what happens when a Black in the South dared to sit inside a diner, remain seated when a white man got on a crowded bus or, taking arm in arm, peacefully demonstrated for remonstrance of grievances.

We are at another watershed moment in our country's history, mainly, are we a nation of freedoms granted to us by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, or are we a nation of elites who define for us, the dumb, uneducated masses, what The Constitution shall mean at any given time.

John Kennedy would have actively opposed that kind of bastardization of our rights. Will anyone now?

As for Mr. Brancaccio's questions:

Madore: Best thing to happen to county government. OF COURSE he's making mistakes early-on; he's not a politician.

Leavitt: He's just another politician. Not even noteworthy. He should leave.

iconoclast — January 10, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Guns Are Killing The Republican Party**

by Mark McKinnon Jan 9, 2013 4:45 AM EST

Republicans need a message about guns other than the NRA’s “we need more good guys with guns” idea, which, by my estimation, would cost about $5 billion and impose a federal mandate for armed guards at schools rather than allow for local control, neither of which strike me as conservative approaches or solutions.

The Newtown massacre created a tipping point on the gun debate in America. The Obama administration and Democrats are moving quickly to reframe the issue and move new policy.

As a citizen, I think it is appropriate and overdue. As a political observer, I think it’s smart politics. As a Republican, I think it’s yet another instance where the party, by refusing to recognize reality, is going to end up looking like the “stupid party” that fails to adapt and evolve to changing circumstances in our society.

The most frequent argument I hear from GOP colleagues is: “People promoting new gun control laws are liberals from the coasts who don’t understand our culture. And none of their ideas would actually have changed anything at Sandy Hook.”

Okay, I’m not a liberal. And I do understand “our” culture. I grew up in Colorado and spent much of my adult life in Texas where shooting guns is almost required by law. Deer, dove, and quail hunting is a right of passage in the Lone Star state. So, I own a couple of shotguns and a couple of rifles. And I had a.44-caliber handgun to defend against bears in the Colorado mountains, until I gave it to a friend, afraid that I was going to blow off my foot. (Turns out pepper spray is a much better deterrent.)

My question to Republican gun enthusiasts is: How would anything being proposed in any way impact what you do now with your guns? Or, is it that you are just hostage to the NRA talking points? 

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 11:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here’s a list of some of the ideas currently being floated by people like Mayor Mike Bloomberg and others: 

• Reinstatement of an expired ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition 

• Requirement of universal background checks for firearm buyers 

• Track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database 

• Strengthen mental health checks  

• Stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors 

• Make gun trafficking a felony  

• The president should make a recess appointment to fill the vacancy at the top of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) 

• The Justice Department should step up prosecution of criminals who try to buy guns (In 2009, the latest year fully recorded, only 77 out of 71,000 people who had been convicted of gun crimes and tried to buy guns were prosecuted.) 

• The Justice Department should crack down on rogue gun dealers 

• Requiring law-enforcement notification of customer purchases of more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition

• Create a database that would allow the ATF to track all gun sales.

• Outlaw armor-piercing bullets  

None of these ideas strike me as out of the mainstream. None would impact the ability of law-abiding citizens to buy firearms and participate in gun-related hunting, recreation, or self-defense. And while it may be a debatable point about the extent to which any or all of these ideas would have changed the circumstances or outcomes of any of the horrifying massacres in our recent history, if the ideas are reasonable and don’t limit legitimate activities, then why not consider them?  Under what circumstance would you need more than 10 rounds of ammunition in a clip?

And yes, we need to look all the contributing factors to violence in our society, including mental health interventions and violent media. But recently 11,000 Americans lost their lives in gun-related deaths in a year. During the same period in Japan, 11 died.  And last time I looked, they play videogames too.

Unless the GOP comes out with a proactive plan that has some appearance of responding to recent events, then it continues to play defense and digs deeper the hole it has been digging for itself in recent years. On issues where the physics are moving irrevocably forward, like immigration, gay rights, and guns, the Republican Party continues to look backward. And backward is a sure path toward irrelevance.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/guns-are-killing-the-republican-party.html

nailingit — January 10, 2013 at 11:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Radicals & right wing media have moved republicans so far right even Reagan would be considered a Liberal. Seriously.

**The Assault Weapon Ban Would Have Never Passed If It Wasn't For Ronald Reagan**

*Two members said Reagan changed their votes. The bill passed by two.*

In 1994, former President Ronald Reagan's health was still good enough for him to, occasionally, participate in politics, and his agenda that year was clear: Helping President Bill Clinton pass the Assault Weapons Ban.

Reagan had been an ardent supporter of stricter gun laws after his presidency for intensely personal reasons, as he wrote in a 1991 op-ed in the New York Times entitled "Why I'm for the Brady Bill."

..

As the assault weapon ban vote neared, Reagan — who as president had signed 1986 legislation loosening restrictions on guns — wrote a letter with former Presidents Ford and Carter to the House of Representatives urging them to vote in favor of the ban.

"We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety," the letter said.

"While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons," the letter said concluding.

The vote on the assault weapon ban was contentious and barely passed the House of Representatives. At least two members of the House of Representatives credited Reagan with influencing their votes. The bill passed 216-214, a margin of two votes.

Congressman Scott Klug, a Republican from Wisconsin was an opponent of the assault weapon ban and the day before the vote stated his opposition to the ban. Klug only changed his voted after "a last minute plea from President Reagan" in the form of a handwritten note.

**''Dear Scott: As a longtime gun owner and supporter of the right to bear arms, I, too, have carefully thought about this issue. I am convinced that the limitations imposed in this bill are absolutely necessary," Reagan wrote Klug. "I know there is heavy pressure on you to go the other way, but I strongly urge you to join me in supporting this bill. It must be passed. Sincerely, Ronald Reagan.''**

''I can think of no one who has been a stronger supporter of law and order and a stronger supporter of the Second Amendment,'' Klug said in a statement regarding Reagan's note announcing his support for the ban.

Read more @ http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/how-ronald-reagan-passed-the-assault-weapon-ban

nailingit — January 11, 2013 at 12:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Hey Roger, All I want to to live happily, free and in peace. You do not need to "derail" my comments or start speculating, assuming and/or concluding anything. Thanks." -- holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

???? No idea what you're talking about; I'm not remembering that I've even responded directly to anything you've said. A quick scan of the past 2 weeks shows a somewhat difference of opinion on Madore in response to Editor Lou, and a comment to Sir Basil about his insisting you support your statements with sources. Other than those -- ????

However, if you don't like people disagreeing with you, or analyzing what you say, then perhaps you've taken up the wrong hobby.

roger — January 11, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I think the cat meant mrd's post @ 6:28 as it quotes the crap's screed.

nailingit — January 11, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For many conspiracy theories are benign and nothing more than amusement. For others they're a way of life, and when theses conspiracies marry with violent right wing ideology...well...

**“Burn the houses down with the cops and their families inside”**

*A right-wing group with shady ties to Alaska GOP politics head to prison. The FBI informant tells Salon the details*

“We have a plan: We’re going to go to the houses of local cops and burn the houses down with the cops and their families inside,” Schaeffer Cox reportedly said in August 2010, months before he would be arrested for plotting to kidnap and kill federal officials — and just a few years before he would be convicted and sentenced to almost 26 years in prison.

Cox’s sentence came down earlier this week, as part of the trial of Alaska Peacemaker Militia members, a right-wing group that was plotting to stockpile illegal weapons and take violent action against the government.

When Cox spoke of his plan in 2010, it was to Bill Fulton, an Army veteran and the owner of DropZone Security, an Anchorage, Alaska, Army surplus store that doubled as a bail bonds agency and tripled as a private security company. Fulton also happened to be working as an informant for the FBI. In an interview, Fulton described to Salon how he infiltrated the twisty world of Alaska’s right-wing movement, passed along information to federal agents, and even got involved in a minor political scandal related to his security work for then-senatorial candidate Joe Miller.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/burn_the_houses_down_with_the_cops_and_their_families_inside/

nailingit — January 11, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone who follows Free Speech and Journalism should take note of this higher court decision yesterday that gives absolute power to a newspaper's owner to dictate to editors and journalists what is fit to print.

Can an owner tell her editors what stories to kill, what to print?

Apparently, yes.

It is not getting big publicity outside inner journalism circles, but the story of the Santa Barbara newspaper owner Wendy McCaw's win is best described by, of all things, a UK journalist:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/dec/19/us-press-publishing-newspapers

manthou — January 11, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Washington’s Endless Civil War**

*Right-wing legislators can’t believe Obama is still in the White House—and they’re ready to obstruct him at almost any cost.*

The problem that may blight the next four years is an ideological chasm where the president’s attempts at reasonable compromise are routinely rebuffed, where a polarization to the right among Republicans is reinforced by resentment and a refusal to accept the results of the 2012 election. Or to put it plainly, they can’t believe Obama is still there—and they’re more than ready, or forced by their own extremists, to obstruct him at almost any cost.

..

This is what happened in Europe with austerity politics: cutting too sharply, too soon—that is the Republicans’ essential demand. It’s idiotic economics and preposterous politics, but the GOP firebrands, assuming they are safe in their gerrymandered districts, may lemming-like do massive damage to the country while dooming their party to a generation of defeat at the presidential level.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/11/washington-s-endless-civil-war.html

nailingit — January 11, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:37 p.m.

creation myth

talking snake

supernatural creatures

burning bush

plagues sent by a supernatural creature

parting of the water

flood

virgin birth

miracles

reanimation

prophecy

dragons

pregnant woman in the sky

And, to top it off, comparing the faerie tales ( or mythology, if that sounds better) with stories from other cultures show that many aren't even original - the flood, resurrection, and creation myths have variants in several civilizations for example. Might want to go read up on Joseph Campbell and Robert Graves.

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"... historic scientific theory being "faerie tales" as well."

goldenoldie — January 10, 2013 at 3:37 p.m.

We are being told the faerie tales and myths, borrowed from preceding and contemporary cultures, are 'true'.

And while there was thinking that the world was flat, by Ancient Greek era, we had proof the world was round. We also learned that we weren't the center of the universe, that stars have finite lives, that plate tectonics move continents and cause earthquakes and volcanoes, that there isn't spontaneous generation, evolution rules biology, there are bits and pieces smaller than what our eyes alone see, germs cause disease,.......

Science moves forward. Attempting a false equivalency in an effort to prop up mythology kinda proves the point of which is more accurate.

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I personally saw a guy doing real estate deals day in and day out on County's time using his cell phone at all hours of the day. It was sickening.

holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 4:07 p.m

No evidence? You didn't bring it up to anyone? Whistleblower? Letter to the Editor?

holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.

And not a shred of evidence or any data that supports your 'solutions' ........

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*According to Biden, Obama wants to use an executive order to get the guns away from the American people.*

holycrapola — January 10, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.

You missed the part where " He also said separate legislative action would be "required." "

Even Foxnews reported that. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I feel sorry for journalists, young and old. I really do. Talented interns can't get positions and stalwarts like the NY Times are making drastic cuts to balance the books:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/major-shakeout-looms-for-top-times-editors.html

manthou — January 11, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think this quote might synthesize (def. 1 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synthesize) much of what we are discussing; be it mythology, progress of science, faith-based thinking, man's effect on the environment, social justice, societal progress, learning,....

I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
― Maya Angelou

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal



mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.

So you're saying without evidence that suits your specifications, it's a myth. What do you have to say about scientific evidence suggesting

The universe was once an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly. This rapid expansion caused the Universe to cool and resulted in its present continuously expanding state. According to measurements and observations, the Big Bang occurred approximately 13.75 billion years ago.

What makes me think this isn't a myth...something someone drummed up to explain what they believed started all existence? Where's the data?

-or-

Humans as we see today evolved from evolutionary divergence of the human lineage from other hominids (shared ancestors of humans and chimpanzees). [courtesy Wikipedia for quick reference]

If that is true, then what was the origin of the hominids? Where's the data? Since scientific theory describes humans as hominids, why is there no data as to the origin of hominids? All data is suggestive theory beyond the existence of hominids.

-or-

We live on an orb, 196,900,000 square miles, proportionately positioned at a distance from the Sun, being kept at that position due to gravitational pull which has the ability to sustain life as we see it today. Scientists speculate the behavior of humans have caused climate change. SPECULATE, Basil...SPECULATE.

So in essence, these three examples could be construed as faerie tales since the information they present is purely speculation since no scientist was present to actually experience it or to obtain the data necessary to form a conclusion based on fact.

I'm not disagreeing you with regards to scientific theory, basil. I'm merely presenting the other side of the coin.

goldenoldie — January 11, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey guys, just a little interjection here===

Just got back from Winco and they have Santiam Green beans (cut or sliced) and corn (cream and regular)for .33 cents a can, no limit. Pretty good deal.

hawkeye — January 11, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Del Monte canned pineapple and certain types of Progresso soup are also on sale for 98 cents a can. Did you get your $10 coupon? Came in the mail today. $10 off on any $50 purchase.

kn_dalai — January 11, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No, I don't seem to ever get those coupons from them. Do you sign up for them or is it in a paper or something? I could have used that. I also got Propel flavored water in the large bottles for .56 cents. I love that stuff, no calories and great flavors.

hawkeye — January 11, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's the first time that I have ever gotten one of those myself. I didn't sign up. It was just there in the mail. Like a postcard.

kn_dalai — January 11, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For my part, unfortunately, I’m afraid I have to agree with HAL 9000’s side on this one. There is no comparison between the scientific method of experiment, observation and hypothesis with that of faith based beliefs, which cannot be used to predict and repeatedly test.

Strangely, in String Theory, which has been all the rage in theoretical physics for 40 years or so, the hypothesized strings are so small as to preclude any type of experimentation or observation. The comparison I once heard is that in size, a string would be to the Earth, as the Earth is to the entire universe. With no ability to test and observe, it becomes philosophy, not science.

kn_dalai — January 11, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*With no ability to test and observe, it becomes philosophy, not science.
kn_dalai — January 11, 2013 at 3:50 p.m*

Yes there is. That's what The Large Hadron Collider is for.

iconoclast — January 11, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You may be right iconoclast.

NOVA: It seems like the standard criticism of string theory is that it isn't testable. How do you respond to that criticism?

Witten: One very important aspect of string theory is definitely testable. That was the prediction of supersymmetry, which emerged from string theory in the early '70s. Experimentalists are still trying to test it. It hasn't been proved that supersymmetry is right. But there is a very precise relationship among the interaction rates of different kinds of particles which follows from supersymmetry and which has been tested successfully. Because of that and a variety of other clues, many physicists do suspect that our present decade is the decade when supersymmetry will be discovered. Supersymmetry is a very big prediction; it would be interesting to delve into history and try to see any theory that ever made as big a prediction as that.

[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/view-witten.html][1]

But it is not without controversy.

[http://www.teachersdomain.org/resource/phy03.sci.phys.fund.theoryorphil/][2]

[1]: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/view-witten.html
[2]: http://www.teachersdomain.org/resource/phy03.sci.phys.fund.theoryorphil/

kn_dalai — January 11, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 11, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth

myth [mith]
noun
1.a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

2.stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.

3. any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.

4.an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.

5.an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

So, your efforts to cast science - a growing body of knowledge about physics, chemistry, biology, society, etc, etc, etc, - as comparable with a collection of ancient stories is the false equivalency.

Scientists are not "speculating" about climate change; that ship has sailed except in the denier realm. There are some disagreements as to extent of natural forcings and the extent of interaction between those and the anthropogenic. That is the science doing what science does; expand knowledge, learn, each bit is a step to further learning.

Science progresses; each paper, each observation, each hypothesis, each theory. Evidence proves or disproves those hypotheses, theories.

Myths may teach us what a certain culture thought, and with little evidence to support them, offers up an explanation that fits that knowledge level.

mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 10, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.

I definitely agree - Madore seems to have a propensity toward foot in mouth - He makes well intended statements, but if he'd do his homework and/or have a Chief of Staff type review what he wants to say, then he'd know when he's going to miss the mark. And there are some who are waiting for each and every one. so they can broadcast same. (Not to say he hasn't earned this special attention.)

But what I like about him is that it's no longer business as usual - everything gets challenged. This is what I hopes he keeps up.

roger — January 11, 2013 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 11, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.,

Oh. I read that entry and decided the complaint wasn't really worth responding to; target shooting never really interested me all that much. Loading magazines for most of the military weapons I've played with is easy and quick - we have a little tool we called a stripper clip or speed loader. We load up as many magazines as we figure we'll need and have room for. There's no need to sit there laboriously inserting each individual round. Also, the AR-15/M16 and a few other of these weapons also have a 5 round clip. So I'm not certain why anyone gives a damn about banning 10 rounders and up - just means you have to drop the old one out and put a new one in more often - a couple of second process. And in some respects this is better - it reinforces that one or two well placed rounds are usually much better than just putting the weapon on rock 'n' roll and spraying the area down.

Which, I suspect, is pretty much what mrd's response was alluding to. Hanging around a range blowing off a bunch of ammo and exchanging fire with a trained enemy are entirely different things.

roger — January 11, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not sure if anyone else goes to Pike Place Market, but I ate at a fish joint there today that was top notch. It's on the main level, down toward the end by the stairs - some Greek name like Athenian. I'll never eat at that crowded dump on the pier again - this place is reasonably priced and has waiters who actually seem to enjoy being there.

roger — January 11, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Basil and Goldie -

Is it possible these weren't myths; rather these were the best explanations for the unexplainable that our ancestors could come up with? As you noted, many of the stories are repeats from an earlier time. Many are also repeated in different areas of the world that there's no record had contact with each other.

Or, is it possible we were a lot more advanced in the past - that Herodotus' little tale about Atlantis was based on historical fact?

I guess I'm looking for a middle ground - I'd rather look for a logical and possible basis for the tales told in the Bible and by other religions, rather than dismiss them as pure fairy tales. There's too much repetition for these stories to be pure fantasy.

And maybe I need to grow a goofy hairdo like that crazy Greek guy on the History Channel.

roger — January 11, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I see a letter from Mr. James Patterson was published on Jan. 10th. In it he listed 5 pro's and 2 con's about LOO-RAIL.

Well here's a list that may be a little closer to the truth.

#1: I still don't understand how the economic health will be improved in the downtown area. It will have 3 parking structures and will create traffic problems at both morning and evening rush hours. Remember, the traffic will be for commuting and not for shopping in downtown Vancouver.

#2: We are NOT Seattle and their problems are not needed or wanted here. We can and have come up with better solutions but the people in charge will not listen to us.

#3: As long as Portland does nothing abut their traffic woes those who commute will suffer. A choo choo will not fix it. That is already been proven.

#4: As far as jobs go those will not thousands all at once. They will be several hundred at a time. And if the tracks get done the jobs will go to Tri-Met for M&O.;

#5: Don't count on fed money for the tracks.

#6: About funding. Tolls and fares do not even come close to helping ends meet. It will be the added taxes on all businesses in Clark County. That will include businesses outside the service area. Because we do not have the amount of people in CC it will still operate in the red just like Tri-Met.

You all have read on many occasion that there are far better ideas on how to tie into the rail system over on the other side. Those who say pollution will still be bad, what about these bio-diesel rigs?

To those of you who think it's OK to make people pay for something they do not believe in I say nuts to you. I am sick and tired of paying for losing propositions. As long as people will not look for a better solution stay the hell out of my pockets for your stupid ideas.

Now we all know that this list could go on but I think you get the jist of the problems that face trying to get LOO-RAIL over here.

JohnCasey — January 12, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger - January 11, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.

I was leading to the very same thought as you gave at 9:03 pm...which is located in my post on January 10 at 10:37 a.m. Apparently, if it's not written in the paradigm acceptable by certain individuals, then it must be a faerie tale or myth even though the basics of the beginning of existence as we know it today are aligned with scientific theory as well as theological philosophy.

Amazing!

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — January 12, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

Amen.

One aspect of this LRT plan I've been wondering about is these parking garages. There was a Columbian article about a year back that made it apparent there are different plans for these - some of which should have led to more debate. A good starting point would be who will pay for the upgrades to the downtown ones that were being discussed about a year or so ago. It seems part of the $850 million New Starts grant the CRC assumes the project will receive is going to be spent building them. However, all that's allowed is straight forward garages. Someone on City Council (Mayor L?) said this was a No Go; to meet Vancouver redevelopment objectives the bottom floor street side has to be built to hold shops. The money for this part will need to be obtained elsewhere. So, now that we're getting close to the projected start date - I wonder what the latest plan is with that?

In that same article, someone involved with the project was suggesting the garages could serve a dual purpose - both LRT rider parking and for downtown parking. That comment went on to say the issue of payment would have to be worked out; LRT riders shouldn't be expected to pay, while others should. Fast forward a year and when TriMet was considering charging at their MAX Park and Rides, there was also some noise about doing the same for our garages.

And also we don't really know who will operate and maintain the garages (perhaps some of the homeless crowd who've occupied the downtown area?). With Vancouver City trying to unload the parking garage they own, and not having a great deal of success, is it possible these will become a C-Tran responsibility - one that will lead to another round of "We need more money" fights?

Editor Lou's column today starts with a discussion on the amount of press The Columbian is giving David Madore. (I agree with what he says.) I sure wish they'd give as much attention to all the details of this CRC project - the more one digs into it, the more it becomes apparent we don't begin to know the full scope of this project and what it will cost/who will pay. It's looking more and more like another "pie in the sky" dream, like the Hilton Convention Center that was supposed to make us some money and attract tourism (and which has lately been subsidized by fees charged guests at every other hotel in the area). But the Hilton is just a bad dream; the CRC has the very real possibility of turning into a nightmare that will cripple Clark County for years to come.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 11, 2013 at 6:32 p.m.

Oh for Pete's sake, Basil...I am ***NOT*** doubting scientific discoveries and the ever evolving planet we live on or the ever evolving universe for which we exist!!! You might as well cease on such written behaviors as it shows *your* limitations in *your* point of view.

Your attempts to cast complete doubt on religious views of how our universe came to be makes absolutely no sense to me! Have you ever thought for a moment that the Bible could have been one of the earliest writes of scientific discovery by highly-trained, theological philosophers??? That these documents could have very well been the "New Age" beyond what they once determined as mythology and as the ages progressed, other Bibles and documents were written to support an evolving theory of our existence...that today, many cherish the cleverly-written documents because of the way the information was and IS written in a genre which adequately explains who we are today and why we are who we are...and that is why it is highly accepted by people globally??? Have you ever thought that with the theories shared in the Holy Bible also include historic written law and historically writing life for which we can easily consider the evolution of our laws as we use them today??? Seems to me you hold steadfast religiously in your beliefs of science. So what's the difference here???

Have you truly read the Holy Bible in it's entirety??? Have you ever thought of the evolution of Man from hominids to modern-day human existence from the entire scope of life, science, medicine, government and how the Bible has brought all together in order for people to understand...to absorb as an acceptable word of evolution??? Or do you prefer the amoebic theory of evolution and forget how all has come to exist in our lives?

It is my belief that the Holy Bible was and IS a blend of theoretical Science and philosophy of the highly educated. It has been stated time and time again that the Holy Bible isn't what it was in the beginning...and that statement is very true.

Not EVERYBODY accepts the word of modern day scientists, Basil. They hold to tradition and creative writing...the arts....the classics, all the while observing change around us, further gaining support of knowledge through science, geology and astronomy. Yes, there are some who refuse to accept modern day science, but I speak of those of us who absorb all the information we gain and use that to form our own conclusions...not the conclusion of any particular volume of science and not the conclusion of any particular religious write.

Sometimes, you have to step outside that box and look at a different perspective without waiting to pounce in to deny all that is.

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:01 a.m.,

So, then you agree I should get a goofy haircut like Giorgio Tsoukalos, the moderator on Ancient Aliens. Cool.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — January 12, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

As usual...well stated, sir!!! Seems to me there's a plague affecting the minds of those pent up in believing this current crossing design as the only "fix" for I-5. It's a plague of "my way or no way" and they're stuck in the mindset that more is better when it comes to light rail and bringing it to Vancouver. Some day, they'll realize their mistake after the fact and most likely, they will have had to move out of the area just to escape the higher taxes, the ridiculous tolls, higher fees are too much even for their pockets. Hopefully they'll have prevented this monstrosity before it comes to that point!

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Eee Gads, roger. Looks like he put his finger in a light socket. I just googled his name and all I can say is....

WOW!!! REALLY??? Good Lord the guy has a head of hair!!!

I can't agree with the goofy haircut but with the dry east winds we get through the gorge, maybe all you have to do is stand at Crown Point for a few minutes to achieve that haircut! Then you can decide if that is what you want,l ol.

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal



roger — January 12, 2013 at 7:33 a.m.

My wife maintains that it is actually an alien on his head and not his hair.

frobert — January 12, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Scientists hate the GOP for a reason**

*Arizona State's Daniel Sarewitz says his colleagues should support more Republicans. They may not have the luxury*

This article originally appeared on The American Prospect.

One of the great political shifts in the past decade has been the move of scientists toward the Democratic Party, a casualty of the Republican Party’s war on reality. It’s not about politics for scientists, it’s about the fact that only one party accepts scientific findings on everything from global warming to evolutionary theory to what does and doesn’t prevent pregnancy. Only 6 percent of scientists identify as Republican, whereas 55 percent identify as Democratic. In October of 2012, 68 Nobel-winning scientists co-signed a strong endorsement of Obama, saying the President “has delivered on his promise to renew our faith in science-based decision making.” Which is why it was so strange to read Daniel Sarewitz, co-director of the Consortium for Science, Policy, and Outcomes at Arizona State University, argue in Nature that it’s wrong for scientists to throw their weight behind electing Democrats.

Sarewitz’s opening sentence lays out his argument neatly:

To prevent science from continuing its worrying slide towards politicization, here’s a New Year’s resolution for scientists, especially in the United States: gain the confidence of people and politicians across the political spectrum by demonstrating that science is bipartisan.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/scientists_hate_the_gop_for_a_reason/

nailingit — January 12, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.

Again, you are trying to establish a false equivalency. And that you are attempting to prop up your 'holy book' by stuffing it into your bookcase next to On the Origin of Species and the latest research from every branch of science shows how thin the argument is.

Your book is not science. If it were science, or were"...the earliest writes of scientific discovery ...", you could find latter writing that takes those

creation myth

talking snake

supernatural creatures

burning bush

plagues sent by a supernatural creature

parting of the water

flood

virgin birth

miracles

reanimation

prophecy

dragons

pregnant woman in the sky

and update them with the newer, more accurate, exemplified by what research shows, knowledge.

It hasn't been.

You tried to form an argument that your holy book, that collection of faerie tales, is equivalent to scientific thinking.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html

350 years to acknowledge a basic scientific reality.

Science?

Nope.

Now go look at the 'rationales' the pope gave for his screed.

Where is the science? Where are the "...writes of scientific discovery.."?

mr_basil_seal — January 12, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Given the demographics, I can't understand what these states might have against our President. **;)**

**White House responds to secession petitions, calls for unity instead**

The White House has responded to a handful of petitions calling for various states to be given the right to secede from the United States, calling for unity and participatory government instead.

"In a nation of 300 million people — each with their own set of deeply-held beliefs — democracy can be noisy and controversial. And that's a good thing. Free and open debate is what makes this country work, and many people around the world risk their lives every day for the liberties we often take for granted," writes Director of the Office of Public Engagement Jon Carson.

"But as much as we value a healthy debate, we don't let that debate tear us apart," he adds.

A handful of "We the People" petitions calling for the government to allow various states to secede cropped up following President Obama's reelection. The White House has responded to all those which received more than 25,000 signatures within a month, the minimum required to get a response.

The states included in the response are Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina and Texas. The Texas petition received over 125,000 signatures, more than any other.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/276817-white-house-responds-to-secession-petitions#ixzz2HmU1DUAJ

nailingit — January 12, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou B: Excellent points in Press Talk today.

I have always been evangelical about the importance of a free press. Public officials will use the press to get the word out to a wide audience. Most of the time, this is a good thing.

When is it not?

When the public official lies to the press. When the journalist takes that public official's opinion as unchallenged fact to promote a sensational story the need to win a potential award. When the journalist has solid evidence in his or her hands that contradicts those lies, but sits on them because this story will garner lots of self-promotion.

When court officials make untrue statements to the press so that they can impact thousands of potential jurors who read that newspaper, impacting justice in future court proceedings.

That is the kind of public trust betrayal that makes me furious. Irresponsible journalists tar the reputations of their ethical colleagues and hurt the entire profession by association.

I do not think that this happened in the Wulle case at all, mind you. But it has happened elsewhere and a deserved correction is in the works, but oh-soooooo-slooooow to finalize.

I think journalists need to check the veracity of ALL their sources before they hit the "publish" key. Agents of the courts we expect to be honest.

They not always are.

manthou — January 12, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 12, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

Science is what we know well enough to prove. Science often starts as conjecture (or whatever), and we eventually reach a point of understanding where we can actually prove/disprove something. Take Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. The earlier Sumerians had a similar legend. Science has shown that there was most likely a very fertile area at the north end of what we call the Persian Gulf - where the Tigris and the Euphrates and a couple of other since gone rivers all ran together - in the general location that the early legends or tales pinpoint. Science has pegged earliest homo sapiens as coming from somewhere in Africa - possibly Ethiopia. A couple of years ago Israeli archaeologists turned up even older remains near Tel Aviv. We're moving closer to the area in the Middle East where the legends say life began. Is it possible?

roger — January 12, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 12, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.

Editor Lou has taken the correct approach with Madore from the start. The guy does newsworthy things, and Lou tries to get him to explain the why and wherefore. People that like Madore feel Lou is too critical, while people who dislike Madore claim Lou is giving him too much free publicity. That sort of tells me he's struck that happy medium.

Jim Moeller uses The Columbian differently - he spends a lot of time pushing his various agendas on facebook. Whatever - the word is getting out; he's communicating with his constituents. And he - like Madore - is driven by an overall ideology concerning the role of government. I agree and disagree with some that each puts out, but I respect both in that they're willing to talk to the public (through Editor Lou and his operation), and face the heat when someone who disagrees responds.

Now, that Mayor of yours - I don't trust that boy in the least. And from the way he ran from the "down and dirty" discussions Editor Lou tried to engage him in a couple of years back - well, I've noticed that attempt by Lou to open communication has pretty much ceased. Hmmm....

roger — January 12, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Yep. I think the press is pretty smart about how they are used. Sometimes, the odd reporter falls to the dark side and participates. Most reporters know when they are being used in the wrong way. Free advertising, in other words.

I was one of the group of citizens who wisely switched my vote at the last minute when it comes to the mayor of my fair city. I realized he was making promises he could not keep, based on a need to snag voters. The lesson for those who fell for it: be skeptical. I voted for Royce.

Madore and most politicians get into it to promote their passions. I think there are a few who want the attention and fame, but I truly believe Madore is not one of them. He has made his own already.

Which passions do most for the public good is a matter of controversy among us, for sure.

manthou — January 12, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Vancouver would be better off today if you'd stuck with Colonel Pollard. While I disagree with the revitalize the downtown he was pushing, I also think he'd be handling the current CRC fiasco (among other things) in a way that would better serve the people of this county. Mayor Tim is owned by the money people.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And I suppose I should qualify that last statement with an "in my opinion."

roger — January 12, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 12, 2013 at 9:21 a.m

If you want to cite some science, try using a science site:

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101231/full/news.2010.700.html

Note they discuss specifically how the press misrepresented what was published.

mr_basil_seal — January 12, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Rise early. It is the early bird that catches the worm. Don't be fooled by this absurd saw; I once knew a man who tried it. He got up at sunrise and a horse bit him." - Mark Twain's Notebook

No idea whether this correlation is valid, but I've always trusted Sam's assessments of human behavior. Maybe I'll try sleeping in until 6 a.m. on weekends.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sir Basil,

OK - Archaeologists from the Univ at Tel Aviv turned up human remains that may be homo sapiens and, which if eventually proven to be so and as old as their tests indicate, would place us closer to etc etc.

Better? These guys appear to be at about at the stage as the Leakeys (sp?) were when we still thought Peking man was the oldest, and then they made their discovery.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 12, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

Basil, do you even know how OR when the Holy Bible came to be...and who it is that wrote it in the first place??? You do realize that Christianity came to be before the Vatican, right??? You do realize that not all Christians follow the word of the Vatican but do utilize the Holy Bible as reference in keeping focused on just what is important in their lives, don't you???

And you do realize that by historic records of life prior to Christianity, that the people who worshiped entities as you worship science, were (and are) suspicious...hence the reasoning behind their need to perform certain rituals to stave off evil or bad medicine and it took convincing these people that there were different explanations. Have you ever thought the writings of the Holy Bible were intended to teach those who were suspicious?

With regards to scientific discoveries Basil, how many discoveries have already been debunked over the centuries??? How many of those "discoveries" have evolved into a new scientific theory based on facts presented at the time which later, were deemed as incorrect?

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...answer me this. If myths are just faerie tales, then explain to me why the planets named after mythical gods???

What is the significance of naming planets after gods?

And regarding Mythology or "faerie tales" as you care to call them, why don't you check out the origin of Gaia or Earth according to Greek and Roman mythology. Here's a link to get you started:

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/creation-ovid.html

Note the reference as "A god." As I've said...utilizing verbiage to attract people into scientific thinking...those who lived with suspicion of words by someone they'd consider a charlatan.

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 12, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.

Wow Roger, you were up and at em early today.

As far as the parking structures in the downtown area go, IMO, it's going to be a HUGE mistake. It's going to be a giant mass of vehicles getting in and out of the structures and clogging up the routes to and from the structures and the freeway. This IS going to be worse than what we have right now and then we really won't have any way to fix it because all the money will have already been spent.

The smart thing will be (if LRT is built at all ) will be to build it all the way to at least Salmon Creek and use the existing park and ride locations for parking. They will probably have to be expanded but at least the infrastructure is already there.

hawkeye — January 12, 2013 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Journalists in Greece are dodging bomb targets.

Yikes.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/world/europe/greek-police-search-for-culprits-in-bombings-at-journalists-homes.html

manthou — January 12, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Aaron Swartz, genius internet activist, is dead from suicide yesterday. He has been eulogized by the likes of senator Ron Wyden who has worked with him to keep the internet free and open, with access to government documents, paid for by us all, free to download.

He was 26 and his accomplishments are equal to someone who has lived three lifetimes.

I truly mourn the loss of such a young talent. Who knows what he could have done had he lived out a full life.

His website is here:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.aaronsw.com

manthou — January 12, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 12, 2013 at 8:07 a.m.

Your wife is probably correct. I often wondered what happened to e.t.

roger — January 12, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.

??????????????????

*With regards to scientific discoveries Basil, how many discoveries have already been debunked over the centuries??? How many of those "discoveries" have evolved into a new scientific theory based on facts presented at the time which later, were deemed as incorrect?*

goldenoldie — January 12, 2013 at 11:18 a.m.

Seems more like a rant than actually trying to teach us something; perhaps you could answer your own questions for our edification.

And, btw, the tangent you have gone off on has little to do with the topic - which originally was whinging about theblaze, cna, foxnews being bad translations of the pope's address.

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Btw, the next para says "the god". Pretty clear Ovid was discussing the actions of one of a group.

Not that the point has nothing to do with the discussion.

I'm still not sure what point you were attempting to make...

*"why the planets named after mythical gods???"*

Seriously, what point are you trying to make? That Roman mythology is more accurate? What are the traditional names for planets in ancient Asian culture? What about earlier Western cultures?

And what is the naming protocol for naming objects newly discovered? Or objects not visible by naked eye / visible spectrum?

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last**

We've known for years that Americans tend to be overweight and sedentary, and that our health care system, despite being the priciest in the world, produces some less-than-plum results. Health nerds who closely follow the news may even have known that we live shorter lives than people in other rich nations, and that infants in the U.S. die from various causes at far higher rates.

But a fresh report, out Wednesday, tapped vast stores of data to compare the health of affluent nations and delivered a worrisome new message: Americans' health is even worse than we thought, ranking below 16 other developed nations.

"The news is that this is across the lifespan, and regardless of income," said Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association, who was not an author of the study. "A lot of people thought it was underserved populations that were driving the statistics -- the poor, the uninsured. They still are a big part of our challenge, but the fact that even if you're fairly well-to-do you still have these problems shatters that myth." http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/new-health-rankings-of-17-nations-us-is-dead-last/267045/

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**U.S. Health in International Perspective:
Shorter Lives, Poorer Health**


Although the United States spends more on health care than any other nation, a growing body of research shows that Americans are in poorer health and live shorter lives than people in many other high-income countries. U.S. Health in International Perspective synthesizes available research, taking an in-depth look at this disadvantage in health and lifespan.

Why is the United States falling behind? The report finds that America's health disadvantage probably results from a combination of factors: inadequate health care systems, unhealthy behaviors, social and economic factors, and environmental factors, such as metropolitan landscapes that encourage car use rather than exercise. http://sites.nationalacademies.org/DBASSE/CPOP/US_Health_in_International_Perspective/index.htm#.UPLujW88CSo

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil, with your discussion with Golden the last few days, what do you think about what Einstein said,

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

"Now, even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies. Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm

Einstein believed that science can't explain everything as most atheists believe. He knew that science of itself was not enough to reach the very outer most parts of the universe. We as human beings are too limited.
***The greatest achievements of science pales in comparison to the incomprehensible limitless infinity of the whole universe. The most they can do is try and develop a theory.***
Based on what can be seen by the eyes , heard or using the human senses and using human logic. There is perfect order in the galaxy we live in . Only something more powerful can keep it that way. Even in the eyes of Einstein.

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Interesting you didn't post the next para.......

Or the concluding paras.

Or the source for your concluding para......

Do we need to talk about the various logical fallacies incurred in your efforts?

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Real Patriots Ask Questions** from
The
Demon-Haunted
World
Science as a Candle
in the Dark
Carl Sagan

It is a fact of life on our beleaguered little planet that widespread
torture, famine and governmental criminal irresponsibility are
much more likely to be found in tyrannical than in democratic
governments. Why? Because the rulers of the former are much
less likely to be thrown out of office for their misdeeds than the
rulers of the latter. This is error-correcting machinery in politics.
The methods of science, with all its imperfections, can be used
to improve social, political and economic systems, and this is, I
think, true no matter what criterion of improvement is adopted.
How is this possible if science is based on experiment? Humans
are not electrons or laboratory rats. But every act of Congress,
every Supreme Court decision, every Presidential National Security
Directive, every change in the Prime Rate is an experiment.
Every shift in economic policy, every increase or decrease in
funding for Head Start, every toughening of criminal sentences is
an experiment. Exchanging needles, making condoms freely
or decriminalizing marijuana are all experiments.
Doing nothing to help Abyssinia against Italy, or to prevent Nazi
Germany from invading the Rhineland was an experiment. Communism
in Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union and China was an
experiment. Privatizing mental health care or prisons is an experiment.
Japan and West Germany investing a great deal in science
and technology and next to nothing on defence - and finding that
their economies boomed - was an experiment. Handguns are
available for self-protection in Seattle, but not in nearby Vancouver,
Canada; handgun killings are five times more common in
Seattle and the handgun suicide rate is ten times greater in Seattle.
Guns make impulsive killing easy. This is also an experiment. In
almost all of these cases, adequate control experiments are not
performed, or variables are insufficiently separated. Nevertheless,
to a certain and often useful degree, such ideas can be tested. The
great waste would be to ignore the results of social experiments
because they seem to be ideologically unpalatable.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/downloads/ebooks/Carl%20Sagan%20-%20The%20Demon%20Haunted%20World.pdf

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal



**Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra**

By David Edwards

Fox News host Eric Bolling on Wednesday accused some schools of “pushing the liberal agenda” for teaching an algebra lesson about the distributive property.

During a segment about “indoctrination in schools,” Bolling reminded viewers of a 2009 video of children chanting, “Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Barack Hussein Obama,” which outraged conservatives at the time.

“But even worse is the way some textbooks are pushing the liberal agenda,” the Fox News host explained, pointing to an algebra worksheet that Scholastic says gives students “[i]nsight into the distributive property as it applies to multiplication.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/10/eric-bolling-schools-pushing-the-liberal-agenda-by-teaching-algebra/

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 9:52 a.m

So now you are saying Einstein's writes are lies, or that he didn't know science???

Go to the link I provided, read his published write on the subject. All the para's you are looking for are there.

Not going to play your game of "I think I know it all and you are wrong" Basil, it's old and quite tiresome.

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Enhance Public Safety By Allowing All American Adults to Carry Razor-Edged Crime-Preventing Swords in All Public Places**

Though the NRA defends the 2nd Amendment right of all Americans to keep and bear firearms, they fail to support the more ancient right of citizens to protect loved ones with ready arm and naked blade.

Therefore, we petition the Obama Administration and Congress to pass a federal law allowing all peace-loving adults to carry razor-edge bladed weapons in all public places, to include but not limited to the broadsword, cutlass, katana, claymore, foil, epee, rapier, saber, scimitar, bayonet, machete, kris, switchblade, throwing knife, dagger, sickle, skewer and rib-tickler.

Further, we implore the White House to institute classes not only in swordplay and short-blade infighting, but in witty repartee and swinging from chandeliers while battling miscreants who threaten the public safety.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/enhance-public-safety-allowing-all-american-adults-carry-razor-edged-crime-preventing-swords-all/J6Z7DVzP?

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.

You made a conscious choice to quote one para of a long article.

A single paragraph.

A single paragraph that has been quote mined for years by those trying to establish some credence to a false equivalency of science to religion. Trying to make religion as 'good as' science.

I don't understand how you establish that I am "..saying Einstein's writes are lies...". I am saying that pulling a single paragraph as indicative of the whole thought Einstein was developing is not accurate. The lying is from attempting to take a small part and implying that is the whole.

mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 13, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

Sounds as though she picked some great shrooms for her pasta sauce.

As to her ability to extend rubber wear, I'll leave that one alone.

nailingit — January 13, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There is nothing inconsistent with believing in God but not believing in religion, as we commonly think of religion.

There is also nothing inconsistent with believing in God but also believing in the propriety of human logic through science to explain nature.

I’ve seen Spinoza’s thoughts on God summed up as: there is one substance in the universe, and the substance is God.

[http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/spinoza2.html][1]

[1]: http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/spinoza2.html

kn_dalai — January 13, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Man, the Seahawks are getting crushed!

nailingit — January 13, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One might find those shrooms in a pasta sauce is better than having one's last brain cell go up in smoke. Into latex are you? kiiiinkkkkky

I say once again Basil, I provided the link to his write on Religion and science...a published link of the write. SO if anyone wanted to check it's there. You might want to take a few out and check it out yourself.

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.

*One might find those shrooms in a pasta sauce is better than having one's last brain cell go up in smoke.*

Trying to understand your reasoning with unprovoked insults. Given your conversation with mr_basil_seal, perhaps it's a matter of displaced hostility brought on by frustration.

*Into latex are you? kiiiinkkkkky*

No. Think about it.

Extend. Rubber. Wear.

Never mind.

sigh.....

nailingit — January 13, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Extend. Rubber. Wear.

Never mind.

Not made with "rubber" anymore, made with latex...:)

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's a term ELISI. Rubbers. Anyway...

nailingit — January 13, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now to change the subject....

If the US is giving Egypt 1.3 billion dollars a yr, and has for about 33 yrs, why are there negotiations for them to acquire our F-16's and our M1A1 Abrams tanks?

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/military-source-us-arms-deal-continuing-despite-lawmakers-objections?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm;_medium=twitter

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/us-continues-military-aid-egypt-future-ambiguous

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/us-oks-egypt-aid-despite-congressional-concerns

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal



http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm

Thank you for that, ELISI. I found it very introspective. I would recommend reading it yourself - in its entirety.

Drift — January 13, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If scientists and the religious cannot see the symbiotic relationship to the others' discipline, they are both failures.

iconoclast — January 13, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 13, 2013 at 8:46 p.m

I am one that firmly believes that you can't have one without the other. Or neither works.

I can't prove to you or anyone that God exists, that is where faith comes into play.

As far as Einstein goes, I really think he was agnostic. Born a Jew, attended Catholic schools, he still questioned if God existed.

You might like to look up another saying of Einstein's "God does not throw dice" interesting read. Even Steven Hawking wrote about it.

http://www.hawking.org.uk/does-god-play-dice.html

ELISI — January 13, 2013 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, it's been a whole week of this. Can we drop it now? Some believe, some don't but everybody is allowed their own ideas.

Let's tackle something a little more fun, like underwater basket weaving or what is it your cat or dog is saying to you. Whatever???

Have a good Monday morning.

hawkeye — January 13, 2013 at 11:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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