Open forum, Jan 14-20

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240 comments

Comments

NO DEATH STAR??? Bummer. Too bad for petitioners.

NO DEATH PANELS?? Dang. Too bad Republicans.

Just for that, I'm not gonna die, so there!

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: Glad you made it and are still around to annoy the R's!

Teachers: Be careful what you post on FB. You could lose your job. A school district's right to protect its interests trump your free speech rights.

Teachers complain like this in the sanctity of the break room all the time (which is why I avoided it), but when they take those gripes to FB, look out:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2013/01/tenured_school_1.htm

manthou — January 14, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou: read your article, some people shouldn't be teachers, I guess.

In other news; Seems China is now having an air pollution problem, go figure. And they want our coal. Pics in the article.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/china-s-air-pollution-problem-slideshow/visitor-wearing-mask-walks-outside-forbidden-city-central-photo-085003612.html

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I have heard that China's hunger for dirty coal is what is going to trash the world's environment more than anything.

Don't quote me on that, Basil. I need to look it up. :)

manthou — January 14, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


China is hungry for more coal. They have expanded their industrial base, and need to generate more power. They are also one of the world's leaders in wind power electrical generation, and are attempting to get the burning of carbon based fuels under control. Unfortunately, they've created a kind of Catch-22 - the wind doesn't always blow, and they have to fall back on burning coal. And with their growth, even with the increased use of wind (and solar), their use of coal has also increased.

The argument made by the proponents of coal exports from the Powder River Basin (which I suspect is where the conversation you've heard started) is that our coal burns much cleaner than what the Chinese can buy from Australia or their other main source in the Pacific (Indonesia?). People need to understand that we are not going to stop the Chinese from operating their plants, and that we cannot stop others from selling coal to them. While it may not be the best solution, selling them our coal is probably the best we can do.

As a side note, I'd ignore complaints from the Oregon side over the issue of coal trains. As near as I can find, about the most traffic they'll see is an additional trainload per day - if they get the Coos Bay export terminal open. Their complaints are based entirely on the environmental aspects of burning coal (which we won't stop). Everything else will come up the BNSF lines on our side, and head up to Longview, St Helens, and another terminal or two to the north. All total, based on terminal capabilities planned, there will be about 20 trains per day. However, some will use the lines to our north, and I haven't seen figures on number of trains currently running (there are some) or numbers of cars per train. So I can't say what the actual increase in rail traffic will be here (actually, I'm not sure BNSF has this determined yet - port operations still need to start up). HOWEVER, I do BELIEVE much of the local opposition is being generated by people who've elected to live south of the tracks so they can be by the river. And I SUSPECT the backers of the Vancouver Waterfront Development project are also going to try to stop these trains - they're going to have a real hard time convincing investors that people will want to live and work in the high rises in the fancy upscale community they've planned if trains are going to be rumbling past and blowing whistles at all hours.

roger — January 14, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And on a related note - what exactly is the effect man has on the climate and global warming? I got into a discussion over solar variability and the effect on climate change with a geologist who doesn't completely buy into our current global warming ideas; while he'll agree we have an impact that's not fully understood, the Sun itself is the major factor. It isn't one uniform size; rather it expands and contracts over a cycle. This affects temperatures, magnetic fields, and a couple of other things I didn't entirely understand. His position is that these things have happened before, and that Mother Earth tends to correct them on her own.

From what I've been able to find, what he says was pretty much the dominant scientific belief during the period from the '70s to early '90s, when people started studying this area. Somewhere in the early '90s, the opinion that our greenhouse effect is blocking radiation/heat reflection started growing, and that we may be replacing the Sun as the main influence on our global environment.

Hmmm... And after I've hurt my poor brain trying to absorb all the graphs and meanings people are trying to convey, I can only state one thing with a fair degree of certainty. We're surrounded by experts, and they're all over the place with what they insist is correct. So, who knows what to believe?

I'm posting a NASA link - it tends to support the greenhouse effect theory. I'm using it because they explain the controversy in understandable language - whether their conclusion is accurate is open to debate.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solar_variability.html

roger — January 14, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I've spent a lot of time in Virginia in the past 15 years and most of it at my in-law's apt. in Roanoke. Their apt. backs up to one of the railroad tracks going through the town and it always has a coal train going by. After a while you don't even notice it going by unless they have a problem with a wheel on a car. Actually, I'd open the window to listen for them, the constant rumble put me to sleep at night. It was very comforting for some reason.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HUH, it's actually snowing at my house in Lewisville. It's really small snow and no real accumulation but my driveway is whiter.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"And I SUSPECT the backers of the Vancouver Waterfront Development project are also going to try to stop these trains - they're going to have a real hard time convincing investors that people will want to live and work in the high rises in the fancy upscale community they've planned if trains are going to be rumbling past and blowing whistles at all hours. "

with BNSF already running 30-40 trains per day through Vancouver and UO running 30 a day thru the Gorge (I don't know how many come north thru Vancouver but Seattle seems like a good destination) they've already got a train problem if there is one, coal or not.

mrd — January 14, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*It's amazing what this republican party fights for.*

**Supreme Court Rejects Republican National Committee Attempt To End Anti-Voter Intimidation Order**

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has turned down an effort by the Republican National Committee to end a 30-year-old court order aimed at preventing intimidation of minority voters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/14/supreme-court-voter-intimidation_n_2471791.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

---

*Good press conference today. Obama's sticking to his word.*

*Elections used to mean something in this country. I guess if republicans can't fix enough elections, change enough laws and buy enough votes, they will once again resort to this.*

**Obama On Debt Ceiling: 'We Are Not A Deadbeat Nation'**

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama issued a strong warning to Republicans on Monday that he will not negotiate over the debt ceiling or allow Republicans to use it as a bargaining chip.

"To even entertain the idea of the United States of America not paying our bills is irresponsible. It's absurd," Obama said in a press conference.

The president also responded directly to Republicans who continue to argue that increasing the nation's borrowing limit only contributes to Washington's spending problem. He repeatedly emphasized that raising the debt ceiling does not authorize any new spending but simply allows the government to continue to pay for obligations to which Congress has already agreed.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Saturday said a failure to raise the debt ceiling would result in "financial disaster," but reiterated demands that the president agree to spending cuts before a vote.

On Monday, Obama maintained that increasing the debt limit would not represent a concession by Republicans to Democrats, and said he simply would not give in to any demands in exchange for an extension.

"They will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the economy," Obama said. "The full faith and credit of the United States economy is not a bargaining chip. And they better choose quickly because time is running short. The last time Republicans in Congress even flirted with this idea, our AAA credit rating was down for the first time in our history."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/14/obama-debt-ceiling_n_2471594.html

nailingit — January 14, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*At first glance when seeing the bold printed passage, I thought this was commentary about Glenn Becks "2010 Restore America/March On Washington" tour, or another take when Republican congressmen stripped naked and swam the Galilee. A second look I was sure of it. On the third look I realized the difference was waaay too many people involved.*

**Hindus Enter River Ganges In Maha Kumbh Mela, Worlds Largest Religious Festival (PHOTOS)**

(Reuters) - Upwards of a million elated Hindu holy men and pilgrims took a bracing plunge in India's sacred Ganges river to wash away lifetimes of sins on Monday, in a raucous start to an ever-growing religious gathering that is already the world's largest.

Once every 12 years, tens of millions of pilgrims stream to the small northern city of Allahabad from across India for the Maha Kumbh Mela, or Grand Pitcher Festival, at the point where the Ganges and Yamuna rivers meet with a third, mythical river.

Officials believe that over the next two months as many as 100 million people will pass through the temporary city that covers an area larger than Athens on a wide sandy river bank. That would make it larger even than previous festivals.

**After a slow start, police chief Alok Sharma said 1.5 million people had gathered by 8 a.m. (0230 GMT) on Monday, with more on their way.
Two dreadlocked men riding horses emerged from thick camp smoke before dawn, followed by a crowd of ash-smeared and naked holy men, or sadhus, one incongruously wearing a suit jacket. At exactly five minutes past six (0035 GMT), they yelled and dashed dancing into the river.**

That the ancient festival grows in size each time it is held partly reflects India's expanding population, but is also seen as evidence that spiritual life is thriving alongside the new-found affluence of a growing middle class.

The ritual "Royal Bath" was timed to match an auspicious planetary alignment, when believers say spiritual energy flows to earth.

"I wash away all my sins, from this life and before," said wandering ascetic Swami Shankranand Saraswati, 77, shivering naked in the cold. He said he gave up a career as a senior civil servant 40 years ago to become a holy man, travelled on foot and for decades ate only nuts and fruit.

The festival has its roots in a Hindu tradition that says the god Vishnu wrested from demons a golden pot containing the nectar of immortality.

In a 12-day fight for possession, four drops fell to earth, in the cities of Allahabad, Haridwar, Ujain and Nasik. Every three years a Kumbh Mela is held at one of these spots, with the festival at Allahabad the holiest of them all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/14/hindus-enter-river-ganges_n_2470862.html

nailingit — January 14, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, you *do* realize I wasn't criticizing ELISI about her religion, right? I merely questioned if she had read what was found on her link (all of it). Her response indicates she has.

They really are interesting reads. I almost bookmarked it. I had no idea Big Al wrote so eloquently.

As I've opined here previously. Whether the climate we're seeing is a result of industrial activity, or not, is somewhat of a side issue. Spewing stuff into the atmosphere probably isn't a good thing. If we minimize the spewing and weather patterns return to, uh, I dunno... what they were before? Great! If not, okay, we still reduced the poisons in the air we breathe. Great!

One thing is for sure, the climate, she is a changing. We - as human beings - really, really, need to accept that and start pulling together a plan. After all, that's why we're the dominate species on the planet right? - we *can* plan.

Trains? My father was an engineer for the S.P. railroad. For a time it was just me and him. For a time we lived in a hotel across the street from the rail yard in Yuma. The sound wasn't the same sound you think of when you think of trains (is that really a sentence?).

It was trains slowly rolling through at a crawl. They changed crews while in motion. It was the sound of the trains couplings after the brakeman and conductor got aboard the caboose and the engineer applied the throttle.

It was switch engines powering up and throttling off. They would get rail cars rolling, and then cut them loose sending them down the rails to couple with others on a siding. Couple with a load BANG!

I slept just fine. Even in the summer when I'd have the window open... and I could smell the engines.

There was a weird snow-mist kind of thing going on here earlier (just east of the 4th Plain and Grand intersection). It was almost that out of the corner of your eye deal; did I see that? The horseshoe pitching platforms tell me I did. They are covered in tiny snow/ice flakes. Cool. Literally.

Speaking of, I suppose I oughta go on out and bust up the pits.

Drift — January 14, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


How do you lose a football game when you score to take the lead with only half a minute to go?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 14, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's Obama's fault.

nailingit — January 14, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- I grew up in Portland (Sellwoood actually) and we lived about 100 feet from a train track. (The wrong side of the track, naturally) My Dad worked at Union Pacific for as long as I can remember and I got to spend some time at his office in the middle of Albina Yard (until the Columbus Day storm lifted a roof off a building on the dock and landed it in their front window). They moved their office to right under the Fremont Bridge while it was under construction. I got to watch them raise the center section from there, it was so cool. I've always been around trains and like the a lot.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou, the defense fell asleep.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Should there be a penalty for falling asleep with 30 seconds to go?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 14, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou-

Check out this link...Look at who has a hold of Red Bryant on game winning field goal.... Can't believe the Back Judge or Umpire who were looking directly at them couldn't have seen this blatant Hold..

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/falcons-kick-late-field-goal-survive-seahawks-article-1.1239274

vanwadreamer — January 14, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou- I truly believe the defense was only trying to keep ATL from a touchdown and weren't thinking about field goal range. If they had, they could have stopped them in their tracks like they had most of the game. Very disappointing.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou, it was all too obvious why at that point, the referee blew the whistle just as Atlanta's kicker made a bloober on his first field goal attempt. Makes you wonder why so many people believe the NFL playoffs and *Stuperbowel* are rigged with calls like this one. I honestly don't care who goes to the Stuperbowel but when I see bad calls like this one, it angers me.

goldenoldie — January 14, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 13, 2013 at 11:31 p.m. (last weeks's forum)

In essence....

No.

When you and others get going on a subject that I get tired of reading...sometimes the majority of the list of forum discussions, I leave it. Nobody cares who believes in who or what or why...but this IS an open forum and if people wish to discuss the subject of the Pope, God, Science or whatever...

it will be discussed.

goldenoldie — January 14, 2013 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I tried to throw global warming out there, but it looks like religion and football (which to many is one and the same) carried the day.

roger — January 14, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger- I have always had it in the back of my head that the earth is in a cycle that we can't change. We can nudge it a little, one way or the other but it's going to do what it's going to do.

Also, I have always thought that "the hole in the ozone" is there by design to let the pollution out of the atmosphere. I know it's probably BS but I've always thought that.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 14, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.

Your geologist is partly right. There are many cycles; varying influences on our climate.

However, the large majority of the research (greater than 95%) shows that the anthropogenic effect - our burning of fossil fuels - is overpowering all the natural forces. Some of which should be putting us in a cooling cycle....... Tell that to the Australians....

How much our influence is is slightly open as the research points to at a large percentage (even the more ardent deniers admit to circa 50% of the warming).

I'll get you the sources and point to some research later, probably tomorrow.

One could always start reading the IPCC reports, 350.org, NASA, the MET, virtually every college or uni environmental science sites for good information.

mr_basil_seal — January 14, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 14, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.

95%? Do you have a source for that?

frobert — January 14, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 14, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.

***BURRRRRRRNNNNNNNN***

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**SHOULD OBAMA BE IMPEACHED?**

>http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/14/gop-congressman-threatens-impeachment-if-obama-uses-executive-action-for-gun-control/#ixzz2I1DiAvR0
>
>
> Texas Republican Rep. Steve Stockman
> threatened Monday afternoon that he
> would file articles of impeachment
> against President Barack Obama if he
> institutes gun control measures with
> an executive order.

Obama is unprecedented in side-stepping congress. Has he crossed the line if he uses executive order to, in effect, nullify a constitutional right?

At what point does a sitting president become a threat to the freedoms of the country?

iconoclast — January 14, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


iconoclast — January 14, 2013 at 9:29 p.m.

OK, I'll bite. Which constitutional right would that be and how would he be nullifying it?

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


2nd
by making the owning/carrying of guns so difficult that it, in effect, nullifies the "shall not be abridged" part of it. btw, the "militia"

definition of militia:

1. Tenche Coxe: “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have2ither the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” – Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

2. The United States Code (the laws of Congress) states in 10 USC 311(a) that, "The Militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age..." The US Supreme Court ruled in US v. Miller that when called into action the militia was to show up "bearing arms supplied by themselves..." Black's Law Dictionary defines militia as, "The body of citizens in a state" and not the "regular troops of a standing army." The militia is distinctly different from the National Guard or the US military forces.

iconoclast — January 14, 2013 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


iconoclast — January 14, 2013 at 11:06 p.m

Haven't seen anybody wanting any of that. So far, I have seen Biden talking about going back to the Regan restrictions. That's about all. I don't see any of what you posted involved. Surely not an "Impeachable" offense.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 11:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, and BTW, before you go and complain about them "taking away your assault weapons", were those around back in 1788 when all this was written? I don't think so.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 11:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 11:26 p.m.

If the President uses executive order to usurp Congressional authority and regulates commerce, it would be an impeachable offence.

hawkeye — January 14, 2013 at 11:29 p.m.

In 1788 when this was written many if not most large farms and plantations had cannons with grapeshot, which would defiantly qualify as an "assault weapon".

frobert — January 14, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*George Washington: “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”*

*Tench Coxe: “Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American… [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Tench Coxe: “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” in “Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution,” under the pseudonym “A Pennsylvanian” in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.*

Tench Coxe: “Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American… [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”,

Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
Tench Coxe: “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” in “Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution,” under the pseudonym “A Pennsylvanian” in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.

when the 2nd amendment was written, 'militia' made no distinction between private ownership of weapon-types to that of the army. in other words, they equated private ownership of 'military grade' as not only allowable, but necessary.

iconoclast — January 15, 2013 at 12:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry for the repeats; my word processor isn't really great

iconoclast — January 15, 2013 at 12:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Homeland Security is recommending that we disable JAVA on all computers.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/01/security-tip-disable-java-now/267171/

manthou — January 15, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou...my internet security, combined with Firefox have already done that several times in the past two weeks. The article explains pretty much why. Glad I have what I have. There's definitely something creeping around in java which is causing problems. It is a bit of an inconvenience...a bit slower for some sites to open or respond, but I'd rather have a bit of an inconvenience that what the alternative would be.

Thanks for the heads up.

goldenoldie — January 15, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 14, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.

yup.

AR4 (2007 ) says "very likely" and defines that as "greater than 90%.

NAS research shows greater than 97% of research shows AGW effects.

There is also the pesky - for the deniers - fact that since the 70's most of the research pointed to AGW.

start here: http://nas-sites.org/americasclimatechoices/sample-page/panel-reports/87-2/

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf+html?with-ds=yes

http://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/928.asp

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

http://www.globalchange.gov/publications/reports/scientific-assessments/us-impacts/full-report/executive-summary

But, if you have something that supports some alternative hypothesis, research that negates the pages and pages of single spaced citations in report after report, let's see it.

On the other hand, we are still waiting for the documented support of your claims last week.

mr_basil_seal — January 15, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 15, 2013 at 5:57 a.m.

Oracle came out with a new Java update yesterday to fix their problem. It should automatically update when you are online.

iconoclast, you can copy all the quotes you want, you need to give me proof or at least a reference to how the President is going to take your firearms away from you.

hawkeye — January 15, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 15, 2013 at 6:38 a.m

None of your sources support the claim I questioned.

Please be specific if you are claiming I did not provide support, and remember burden of proof fallacy.

frobert — January 15, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ8ZWWceTL0

“Whether I watch depends on who’s being inaugurated,” says Bell, 78. “If it’s this guy, probably not, because I don’t pay much attention to illegitimate things.”

Preparations for Obama’s Jan. 21 inauguration are in full swing: Construction crews are building bleachers and a special seating area for dignitaries, while military officials are organizing the deployment of an army of National Guard members and active-duty personnel for the parade and other events planned for Jan. 21.

At this late date, Bell and his fellow believers in the notion that Obama was born overseas or is otherwise ineligible to be president still expect some court somewhere to buy into one of their theories. After more than 100 court cases, no judge has.

Even after Obama convincingly won reelection despite four years of low popularity ratings, a sluggish economy and a highly motivated opposition, advocates of various counterfactual theories about the president — he’s a foreigner, he’s a Marxist, he’s a Muslim — say they’re sticking to their fight.

“This inauguration is a mistake and those who permit it to happen will have to live with their own consciences,” says Bell, a former Washingtonian who retired to South Dakota.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/on-inaugural-eve-obamas-most-virulent-foes-want-the-celebration-stopped/2013/01/14/2050f75e-54f6-11e2-a613-ec8d394535c6_story.html?hpid=z2

nailingit — January 15, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 15, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.

I'll tell you what, if Colin Powell ran for President, he just might be the first Republican I'd vote for. Smart guy.

hawkeye — January 15, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye

already did. by executive order, bypassing congress:

>http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/14/gop-congressman-threatens-impeachment-if-obama-uses-executive-action-for-gun-control/#ixzz2I1DiAvR0
>
> Texas Republican Rep. Steve Stockman
> threatened Monday afternoon that he
> would file articles of impeachment
> against President Barack Obama if he
> institutes gun control measures with
> an executive order.

iconoclast — January 15, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye:

now, you wanna reply to my original post? *January 14, 2013 at 9:29 p.m.*

> Obama is unprecedented in
> side-stepping congress. Has he crossed
> the line if he uses executive order
> to, in effect, nullify a
> constitutional right?
>
> At what point does a sitting president
> become a threat to the freedoms of the
> country?

iconoclast — January 15, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Texas Republican Rep. Steve Stockman threatened Monday afternoon that he would file articles of impeachment against President Barack Obama ***if*** he institutes gun control measures with an executive order.

iconoclast — January 15, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.

***IF IF IF*** Did he? Has he? Did he even SAY he would?

So, you are going to hang your hat on a person that hates the President and is hell bent on causing him problems regardless of what he has done?

You need to find yourself another hero.

Now if you want to get excited, look at what New York is doing.

http://www.mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CDA3QGIPO2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps;=931

hawkeye — January 15, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jan 23rd is the day..

Hillary In front of Congress

These are just some of the questions she will be asked... Has the last 4 months prepared her for the onslaught of questions... It at least will make there stories the same .... which will raise more questions about when the Presdient knew what and why he continued to "MISLEAD" the American voting public about what he knew and when he knew it... ..

The scandal thus far has at least tarnished and quite possibly implicated everyone from the CIA director, to the secretaries of State and Defense, to the UN ambassador and, of course, the president himself — with no end in sight, because Obama, normally loath to expose himself and even less so in an election season, refuses to answer questions on the subject.

It’s not the crime, but the cover-up, we learned in an earlier impeachment, only in this case the crime may be just as bad or worse.

When did she become aware of the deteriorating security situation in Libya and the uptick in fighters affiliated with al-Qaeda?
Did she advise the president or know if others did? What action(s) did she take?
Did the president or anyone in the White House dissuade her from calling attention to the security situation in Libya?
Was she aware that other nations and non-governmental organizations had pulled their people out of Libya? Why didn’t she recommend that we do the same?
Was she aware of any requests for additional security in Libya? Was she aware of, for example, an al-Qaeda threat posted on Facebook?
Why did she or someone else wait nearly half a day before repudiating the messages from the Cairo Embassy that the attacks stemmed from protests regarding an anti-Muslim video?
Intelligence officials became aware within 24 hours that there had been no sort of demonstration at the Libyan consulate. When did she find this out? Why did she not clarify the record promptly and advise the president, his spokesman and lawmakers that there had been no protest in Libya?
who had no operational control for Libya,
Did she or any of her subordinates help brief Rice or help coordinate the responses she would give?
Who else participated in those briefings?
Did anyone clarify that there had been no protest
known al-Qaeda affiliates had been involved?
Did she at any time advise the president ahead of his Sept. 25 speech to the United Nations that it was incorrect to tie the Libya attacks to the anti-Muslim film and/or that we knew this to be a terrorist act? When was that? Was she disturbed so many officials were giving out incorrect information during this time?
When she met the return home of the remains of those killed in Libya, Clinton said, “We have seen rage and violence directed at our embassies over an Internet video we had nothing to do with.” By that time, didn’t she know there had been no protest in Libya?

vanwadreamer — January 15, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 15, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.

Where did you find that? Jessie Ventura?

hawkeye — January 15, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 1:47- It appears to be a cut & paste from a blog penned by neo-conservative blogger Jennifer Rubin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/

nailingit — January 15, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the Best
patients to operate on.

The first surgeon, from New York , says, 'I like to see accountants
on my operating table because when you open them up, everything
inside is numbered.'

The second, from Chicago , responds, 'Yeah, but you should try
electricians! Everything inside them is color coded.'

The third surgeon, from Dallas , says, 'No, I really think librarians
are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical order.'

The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: 'You know, I like
construction workers...Those guys always understand when you have
a few parts left over.'

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington , DC shut them all up when
he observed: 'You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on.
There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine..
Plus, the head and the butts are interchangeable.'

hawkeye — January 15, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I'll say it. Lance Armstrong is an IDIOT!!!

He's going to get his pants sued off. He's going to snitch to try to keep his sorry ass out of court. But that won't work. There's too much money on the table to not sue him to try to get their money back.

What I want to know is what will happen to all the other cheaters on his team?

Better yet why can't they give the runner ups in those races the trophy? Doesn't it mean that the true winner did it without cheating? The governing body should not vacate those races just because this idiot and his team decided to screw it up for the others. Maybe they could also sue him for something.

JohnCasey — January 16, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 15, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Tell us about this " burden of proof fallacy".

And I cannot see how you can make the first claim unless the problem is the information isn't in the url....

mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 14, 2013 at 11:35 p.m.

Remember, your "If" is what you've failed to discount as a strawman argument now for two weeks.

mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 7:58 pm: :D

manthou — January 16, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 6:26 a.m.

You seem to have some confusion on the definition of "strawman fallacy" an "if then else" statement is not a strawman fallacy.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

frobert — January 16, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 6:16 a.m.

Still no specifics?

If you want to discuss something I posted, you have to be specific.

frobert — January 16, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk,

Does it matter where I got those talking points and questions? You liberals all think this is behind us and the President and everyone else should not be taken to task as to their lack of action and Lying to the American public......It's so easy to fool most of the people some of the time but most of the liberals most of the time speaks for itself...Democrats acting like LEMMINGS, following and holding there baited breath on every word he says like it is gospel.. Our President flat out lied about what really happened and our friends on the left just poke their little heads into the sand just hoping this will go away.... This may end up smacking the President right in the face.. I'm guessing he will call a press conference and apologize and everything will be fine...

His actions and cover up and lying afterwards shows the real type of person he is.. I've said this before he got elected in 08, full of promises and short on action.... What a Phony....

vanwadreamer — January 16, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — January 16, 2013 at 5:35 a.m

I totally agree.

I was at a race in Portland, several years ago, to get his autograph for my granddaughter. They said he would be by this tent after the little ride. When he got there, someone opened the tent flap, he rode in, and a guard blocked the door. Then an hour later, the flap opened and he rode out right up to his bus and he was gone. The only people he talked to were the ones in the tent with checkbooks. That showed me what he was made of. This "news" doesn't surprise me in the least.

hawkeye — January 16, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 16, 2013 at 9:30 a.m

It only matters if you want to be credible. If you don't, then I guess it doesn't matter at all. Seems like you are bent on the latter.

I guess time will tell who knew what and when. I just don't think that getting all excited about something I can't do anything about is in my best interest. But you go ahead.

hawkeye — January 16, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So what your saying is that everytime you source something from the internet it is truth... Really.... So we all have to say you are credible because you source something someone else writes from the internet... Must be true, it's from the internet, and it must be from a left wing or liberal source to be accurate as well... .... That means your not thinking for yourself just using someone else opinion...Thats what they call a Lemming...

All I did was copy what are sure to be questions Hillary will face next week. And if she will actaully answer said questions. The other point I was trying to make is how culpable the President will be... For what 2 or 3 weeks after the terroist attack he kept saying they attacked the compound because some guy in California making an American-made video that disparaged Islam...Really is our President this out of touch with what is going on around him... Susan Rice was not picked for sec of state for just these reasons.. Obama knew she would get grilled from those in congress who want to get to the bottom of what transpired... Or in other words the Truth... Hopefully we will get to the bottom and find out who knew what when and why didn't we try to help these people....When the President lies, how can we trust him....

vanwadreamer — January 16, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 16, 2013 at 11:11 a.m.

Guess you don't pay attention to my posts. EVERY time I reference something from the internet, I post the link where I got it from so YOU or anybody else can read it for themselves and make up their own minds as to it's validity. As far as your description for "lemmings" go, you just described yourself, go figure.

Secondly, you don't know that those are the questions that are going to be asked unless you actually get a list of the questions from the person that is going to ask them. What you posted was a list of questions from some blogger with with an agenda that closely mirrors yours. That's all.

hawkeye — January 16, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal



frobert — January 16, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

Try Control F to find your "if". The words after that are straw man. Both weeks.

mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 16, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

Just walk us through how either is a "strawman" argument.

frobert — January 16, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Rick Perry Says Prayer, Not Gun Control, Will Keep American Children Safe From Violence**

Gov. Rick Perry (R-Texas) has revealed his own plan for combating America's violence problem -- and it differs from President Barack Obama's on a key point. Specifically, the former presidential candidate said that instead of enacting tougher gun control legislation, Americans should simply pray for protections.

..

Perry said that there was "evil prowling" in the world that has appeared in television and movies, and then found its way into vulnerable minds.

As a free people, let us choose what kind of people we will be. Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help. Above all, let us pray for our children.

Perry also assailed the liberal media and politicians for attempting to use the Sandy Hook shooting for a political end "that would not have saved those children," according to the Chronicle.

This is not the first time the outspoken governor has launched rhetorical assaults on "secularism." In September, Perry unloaded a blistering attack against those who believe strongly in a separation of church and state.

"Satan runs across the world with his doubt and with his untruths and what have you, and one of the untruths out there that is driven -- is that people of faith should not be involved in the public arena," Perry said on a conference call with Rick Scarborough.

Perry's appreciation for prayer is also well-documented. He endorsed and helped organize a "Christian-only" prayer event in August at Houston's Reliant Stadium that drew the ire of the Freedom from Religion Foundation organization.

This idea that prayer is the ultimate protection, even against guns, has been circulated among the conservative Christian community in the aftermath of the Newtown shooting.

Bryan Fischer, an executive with the American Family Association, said God did not protect the victims of one of the deadliest school shootings in American history because children and teachers were not allowed to pray for protection in the classroom.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/rick-perry-claims-prayer-not-gun-control-keep-children-safe_n_2490672.html

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"This is not the first time the outspoken governor has launched rhetorical assaults on "secularism." In September, Perry unloaded a blistering attack against those who believe strongly in a separation of church and state.

"Satan runs across the world with his doubt and with his untruths and what have you, and one of the untruths out there that is driven -- is that people of faith should not be involved in the public arena," Perry said on a conference call with Rick Scarborough.

Perry's appreciation for prayer is also well-documented. He endorsed and helped organize a "Christian-only" prayer event in August at Houston's Reliant Stadium that drew the ire of the Freedom from Religion Foundation organization.

This idea that prayer is the ultimate protection, even against guns, has been circulated among the conservative Christian community in the aftermath of the Newtown shooting."

Sad part is, this nutjob has an audience.

mrd — January 16, 2013 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Sad part is, this nutjob has an audience.*

mrd — January 16, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.

Here's another nutjob who speaks for Republicans. This is enough to make some physically ill. I hope his remaining sponsors will send a message. Sick stuff.

You anti-democracy nuts that are calling for impeachment, this is who you're in bed with.

**Rush mocks kids for wanting to live**

*And the president for having the Secret Service* **VIDEO**

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/16/rush_mocks_kids_for_wanting_to_live/

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I think both of these items can be accomplished.*

**Joe Scarborough: Republicans Can Pass Gun Control Or Lose House In Two Years (VIDEO)**

Joe Scarborough predicted on Wednesday that the Republican party would lose its majority in the House of Representatives if it does not pass gun control reform.

President Obama announced twenty-three executive actions on gun violence on Wednesday, following the tragic deaths of twenty-six victims at Sandy Hook Elementary School in December. Some of the administration's proposals — including mandatory background checks and an assault weapons ban — will will have to go through Congress.

Joe Scarborough joined Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC after Obama's speech on Wednesday. He criticized Republicans for being what he said was out of touch with Americans, an assertion he has made before, as well as the NRA.

He laid out what he saw as the GOP's two choices in the House of Representatives. "They can either pass a comprehensive gun control package right now and shape it under Speaker Boehner, or they can wait two years when they lose the majority and have Nancy Pelosi write that bill," Scarborough said. "There are no other choices."

He went on to hammer Republicans for living in an "echo chamber" for the past year. Scarborough issued the same warning to his party immediately after the Newtown shooting. In December, he said "we will lose" if Republicans continued to defend Glocks and Bushmasters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/joe-scarborough-gun-control-republicans_n_2489342.html

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**The House GOP’s Intentional-Losing Strategy**

Last night’s House vote to approach disaster aid for communities hit by Hurricane Sandy may turn out to be one of the signal moments of President Obama’s second term. The significance lies not in the bill itself — though obviously, if you are reading this from the ruins of your flattened house, your mileage may vary — but what it says about the power of the crazy caucus of the House Republicans.

Here is the central dilemma in American politics since 2010: You need to enact laws even to do very basic things like not crash the world economy for no reason. You can’t enact a law without passing it through the House. The House is controlled by Republicans. And many if not most of these Republicans appear to be stark raving mad — which is to say, not merely ideologically extreme but unable to rationally connect means with ends, as evidenced by such things as the Plan B fiasco.

..

The next such event is the debt ceiling vote. This seems like the perfect setup for another let’s-forget-the–Hastert Rule vote. Republican elites are increasingly coalescing around the view that they just have to raise the thing. (Koch-backed Americans for Prosperity is the latest right-wing group to throw in the towel.) The natural solution is to just let the bill pass with mainly Democratic support and give a bunch of angry speeches — the way the debt ceiling used to work.

Then what? Politico reports that Republicans may stage a government shutdown to let frustrated conservatives work out some anger issues. (“We might need to [shut down the government] for member-management purposes — so they have an endgame and can show their constituents they’re fighting.”)

Governing in the greatest nation on Earth!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/house-gops-intentional-losing-strategy.html

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**NRA Ad Calls Obama an ‘Elitist Hypocrite’ for Having the Secret Service Protect His Daughters [Updated]**

In a new ad, the NRA violates the long-standing tradition of keeping the president's children out of the political debate, attacking the president for dismissing the group's proposal to put armed guards in schools, though his own daughters have Secret Service protection. "Are the president's kids more important than yours?" the narrator asks. "Then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their schools? Mr. Obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/nra-jabs-obama-kids-secret-service-protection.html

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 5:27 p.m

Question, does EVERYBODY have to pray or can he just do it for everyone? Oh, and does he have a specific god to pray to?

Oh man, too many questions in my head, I'm not sure he thought this through.

Will his praying only protect Christians? What about the Jews? What about the Apostolics? What about all the other religions, are they doomed? What happens to the Catholics if they don't get the word from Perry?

Oh, this could end badly for the Amish???? No TV, no radio, no telephone or newspapers!!!! Oh, this is bad. Now I'm worried.

hawkeye — January 16, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ hawkeye — January 16, 2013 at 7:34 p.m.

Your questions are mine also hawkeye. I'm also worried for our brethren & sisthren Amish.

One thing I think we know for sure. God's not paying attention to this idiot Perry.

As a matter of fact I've uncovered some documentation to back this up.

**God Urges Rick Perry Not To Run For President**

AUSTIN, TX—Describing Texas Gov. Rick Perry as grossly unqualified for the position, God, the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, urged Perry not to run for president of the United States Wednesday.

“I prayed last night and asked the Lord to support my candidacy, and He said no,” Perry told reporters outside the Texas Capitol, explaining that God had cited the governor’s rejection of federal stimulus funds to expand state jobless benefits, his irresponsible speculation about Texas seceding from the union, and his overall lack of concrete solutions to the nation’s problems as reasons why He could not endorse a Perry presidential bid.

“I believe God made some valid points about my lack of credentials, and He’s absolutely right. My extreme beliefs when it comes to social issues and states’ rights are not only disturbingly narrow-minded, but would also make me a horrible president.”

When reached for comment, God said He would not be present at Perry’s much-talked-about Christian day of prayer on Aug. 6, calling the governor’s use of his public office to endorse a religion both “irresponsible” and a violation of the Constitution.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-urges-rick-perry-not-to-run-for-president,20981/

nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Nails,

RE: nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:20 p.m., please explain your change in heart about Joe Scarborough and his validity as a commenter on things of national importance. I sort of recall a conversation we had a while back - I was criticizing that holier than thou young lady you like to listen to, and you responded along the lines that Joe was basically just a blowhard with pretensions of running for Pres. Are we having a mild evolution of sorts here? Hmmmm????

On a more serious note, looks like al Jazeera is starting to encounter a little backlash from their acquisition of Current TV and their plan to start an al Jazeera America network. Time Warner dropped them already, and I'm waiting to see whether the other major carriers airing Current (DirecTV, Comcast, Dish, Verizon and AT&T;) will honor that contract when al Jazeera starts up. If they do, I can't wait for the first special on the "Palestinian problem" and the fireworks that will follow!

roger — January 17, 2013 at 5:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""OK, it's been a whole week of this. Can we drop it now? Some believe, some don't but everybody is allowed their own ideas.*

*Let's tackle something a little more fun, like underwater basket weaving or what is it your cat or dog is saying to you. Whatever???*

*Have a good Monday morning.*

*hawkeye — January 13, 2013 at 11:31 p.m.*"""

. .? ? ? . .

(shaking head in disbelief)

Hawkeye, you can't have it both ways. If you don't want the discussion brought to the table, then why are you adding fuel to the fire???

goldenoldie — January 17, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 16, 2013 at 5:08 p.m.

In both cases, this week and last, your "if" sets up a condition that isn't happening. Then you ascribe an effect based on that 'if' happening.

By ascribing an effect based on an argument / event that isn't probable, you've set up a strawman for the sake of positing that effect.

Hence; strawman argument.

Now, tell us how you came to the synthesis of your claims about Constitutional law.

mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*RE: nailingit — January 16, 2013 at 6:20 p.m., please explain your change in heart about Joe Scarborough and his validity as a commenter on things of national importance. I sort of recall a conversation we had a while back*

roger — January 17, 2013 at 5:17 a.m.

I quote Rush & he's a **B**lowhard **S**upreme, and I've never questioned his validity as a commentator.

Louis Gohmert is a "valid" sitting U.S. Congressman, yet maintains a presence of complete idiocy.

Joe represents, imo, the Reaganesque faction of today's GOP, and at times his show produces some reasonable discussion on complex issues. I remember Joe when he was a Congressional whippersnapper. And as I've said before, I do tune in sometimes.

I don't think many would argue Joe is self inflated and at times noxious. The recent on air bullying of Mika which got a lot of ink is telling.

He's kinda like Bill O'Reilly, except with a brain.

*Are we having a mild evolution of sorts here? Hmmmm????*

I prefer hot picante sauce on my scrambled eggs.

*I was criticizing that holier than thou young lady you like to listen to*

Assuming from previous conversations you're referring to Maddow, please explain and provide any type of evidence which goes to your point. I find her personality & opinions to be the opposite.

It's good to see Al-Jazzeera mix it up. No doubt they'll be more news worthy than Fox.

I've looked at The C FaceBook comments a few times lately and wow! I have to think some of these guys & gals are not being honest with their opinions. That or we need to throw much $$$ into local mental health care. A few reasonable folk to include yourself but on the whole...wow! :))

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

Again "if" and "strawman" are two different things, please read up on the definition of strawman argument.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

"By ascribing an effect based on an argument / event that isn't probable, you've set up a strawman for the sake of positing that effect."
Not only was the event I noted probable, it has come to pass with the Presidents executive memorandum to the CDC, bypassing congressional law.

As far as what is an impeachable offence, history has shown us that using executive power to supersede congressional law is an impeachable offence, as in the case of Andrew Johnson.

frobert — January 17, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal



You can only deal with so many conspiracies & "strawman" type questions at a time. What little credibility Fox had at the White House left with Major Garrett imo.

**Obama Called On ABC The Most During First Term Conferences; Fox News Comes In Ninth**

In 2010, President Obama said that Fox News had a point of view which was "ultimately destructive" for America. So the findings of a new study about Obama's press conferences are not too surprising.

The University of Minnesota's Eric Ostermeier tallied up the number of questions each member of the White House press corp had been able to ask during all of Obama's first term press conferences. ABC, CBS, the Associated Press and NBC led the pack, with ABC having been selected for questioning 29 times over 36 solo press conferences. (Overall, reporters have had fewer chances to ask questions than any White House press corps since Ronald Reagan's.)

It makes sense that the wires and broadcast networks have had the most opportunities to question Obama. They traditionally are the first to be called on at any press conference, and their reach is bigger than any other outlet.

Bloomberg — whose business-oriented audience would likely be one Obama wanted to target during the depths of the recession — was also a winner, being selected 20 times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/obama-fox-news-press-conferences_n_2495440.html

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2013/01/fox_still_shunned_at_obama_pre.php

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal



frobert — January 17, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.

IF you can show us a source that shows President Obama were contemplating an action that could be considered unconstitutional, then you would have the basis for a reasonable argument.

But taking an "if" and postulating that he will be impeached, etc because that COULD happen is a strawman argument.

I.e IF we traveled to a different galaxy and found a non CO2 producing power source, we wouldn't have to worry about Anthropogenic Climate Change.

I.e IF we moved to solar energy exclusively, we wouldn't have to worry about Anthropogenic Climate Change.

I.e IF Lamar Smith were to understand science, we wouldn't have to worry about Anthropogenic Climate Change.

mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 17, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.

You still need to establish that there has been some action that is impeachable.

Make sure to tell us why and precedents that would show the President's actions are impeachable.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2013/01/president-obamas-gun-violence-executive-actions.html

Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
Nominate an ATF director.
Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

Please provide a reputable source that your unconventional definition of "strawman" fallacy is valid. I have provided multiple links to show that it is not.

frobert — January 17, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.

"You still need to establish that there has been some action that is impeachable"

"Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence. "

The CDC is prohibited by congressional law to use federal funds to advocate gun control. This is grounds for impeachment, but many things the current and former presidents (of both parties) have done have been impeachable offenses.

frobert — January 17, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What drives so many people in public life (athletes to name a few recent examples)to lie?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 17, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 17, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.

*You still need to establish that there has been some action that is impeachable.*

*Make sure to tell us why and precedents that would show the President's actions are impeachable.*

I'm looking forward to that also mr_basil_seal.

So many many ridiculous assertions being made about Obama/gun laws.

frobert- Instead of obfuscating with silly word play, please inform us as to the *why and precedents that would show the President's actions are impeachable.*

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHDXQc...

Great political insight from evangelical pioneer Frank Schaeffer.

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 9:58 a.m.

Any act or perceived act is "impeachable" as the term only applies to the charge, not to the conviction.

http://thelawdictionary.org/impeachment/

frobert — January 17, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More wordplay without speaking to substance.

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal



frobert — January 17, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

You need to support your claim(s). Start with your CDC claim.

Maybe source where that claim comes from also..

Oh, never mind; found it

http://www.policymic.com/articles/23456/alex-jones-circulates-petition-urging-rep-steve-stockman-to-impeach-obama/347433

yeah, probably could be considered an ad hom...... especially by those who who have issues with their other claims being labeled straw man

mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We've had enough on faerie tales and unsupported claims. Here's some science:

World Bank Report:
**Turn Down Heat: Why a 4 Degree Warmer World Must be Avoided**

This report spells out what the world would be like if it warmed by 4 degrees Celsius, which is what
scientists are nearly unanimously predicting by the end of the century, without serious policy changes.
The 4°C scenarios are devastating: the inundation of coastal cities; increasing risks for food production
potentially leading to higher malnutrition rates; many dry regions becoming dryer, wet regions wetter;
unprecedented heat waves in many regions, especially in the tropics; substantially exacerbated water
scarcity in many regions; increased frequency of high-intensity tropical cyclones; and irreversible loss of
biodiversity, including coral reef systems.
And most importantly, a 4°C world is so different from the current one that it comes with high uncertainty
and new risks that threaten our ability to anticipate and plan for future adaptation needs.
The lack of action on climate change not only risks putting prosperity out of reach of millions of people
in the developing world, it threatens to roll back decades of sustainable development.
It is clear that we already know a great deal about the threat before us. The science is unequivocal
that humans are the cause of global warming, and major changes are already being observed: global mean
warming is 0.8°C above pre industrial levels; oceans have warmed by 0.09°C since the 1950s and are acidifying;
sea levels rose by about 20 cm since pre-industrial times and are now rising at 3.2 cm per decade;
an exceptional number of extreme heat waves occurred in the last decade; major food crop growing areas
are increasingly affected by drought.
Despite the global community’s best intentions to keep global warming below a 2°C increase above
pre-industrial climate, higher levels of warming are increasingly likely. Scientists agree that countries’ current
United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change emission pledges and commitments would
most likely result in 3.5 to 4°C warming. And the longer those pledges remain unmet, the more likely a
4°C world becomes.

http://climatechange.worldbank.org/sites/default/files/Turn_Down_the_heat_Why_a_4_degree_centrigrade_warmer_world_must_be_avoided.pdf

mr_basil_seal — January 17, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoxP54...

roger @ 5:17- In case you missed Joe being Joe. He really gets going at around 5 minutes.

Entertaining!

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJc8K3...

Exemplary!

Joe stomps his feet like a child and rips the throat out of one of his own, as Mika periodically slips in and out of a coma.

:)

I've watched his show enough times to know these examples are not anomalies.

But I agree with him on policy more than your average republican. He somewhat separates the Neo from the Con, but perpetuates a con nonetheless.

nailingit — January 17, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Hawkeye, you can't have it both ways. If you don't want the discussion brought to the table, then why are you adding fuel to the fire???

goldenoldie — January 17, 2013 at 6:44 a.m."

***BECAUSE I WAS TOLD***

"In essence....

No.

When you and others get going on a subject that I get tired of reading...sometimes the majority of the list of forum discussions, I leave it. Nobody cares who believes in who or what or why...but this IS an open forum and if people wish to discuss the subject of the Pope, God, Science or whatever...

it will be discussed.

goldenoldie — January 14, 2013 at 4:08 p.m"

***SO THERE, CRAZY OLD LADY-- YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS EITHER! IT'S NOT UP TO YOU!***

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

Really Crazy Old Lady, My oh my have we stooped to new depths here in the Basement....What constitutes Old these days... I thought 50 was the new 30 until I saw this guy the other day at FM, was being carded, checker says you don't look 37, he says I'm not I'm 57...She said wow...... I thought lets hurry up and get out of here... Anyway cheap insults are just that cheap.. But you need to source the word OLD for me...

vanwadreamer — January 17, 2013 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 17, 2013 at 1:09 p.m.

It's the opposite of young

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, I did that as a courtesy to you, I don't "NEED" to do anything for you. The discussion was between me and GoldenOLDIE!!! Get it, OLDIE!!!

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Hey, what do you think***

Congressional Reform Act of 2012

1.No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they're out of office.

2.Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social
Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3.Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4.Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5.Congress loses their current health care system and
participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6.Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7.All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.

Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in
Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their
term(s), then go home and back to work.

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, hawkeye, hawkeye...tsk, tsk, tsk.

Didn't you recently have a birthday, old man??? How old did you say you were???

With regards to my avatar...as I've said many times before on the forum, it reflects my preference in music...no reference to age, my friend.

goldenoldie — January 17, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I’ve been thinking…just what is a Civic Activist anyways? Anyone? Near as I can tell, it must be someone who likes to chime in a lot, and tell everyone what their personal feelings are about most everything.

kn_dalai — January 17, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.

And Hawkeye...only my family members get away with calling me "Old Lady" without any reaction...8))

Still, your response with regards to my question at 6:44am ...a bit immature for a man of your age, wouldn't you say??? In no way was I referring to any method of control of the forum. It was a generalized statement with recognition to the fact that this is after all, an open forum with many topics to discuss by all including religion and for you to make the suggestion you did in last week's forum compels me to believe that it is you who is attempting to take control of what is stated, yet you cannot even heed your own advice.

I could care less if you discuss religion or not, but just remember this...

If you drive your car in both directions in a one-way street...

well...

I think you get the picture.

goldenoldie — January 17, 2013 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 17, 2013 at 1:09 p.m.

8))

I have a friend whose grandmother is 101 years young. She's got more vinegar in her than most men at the age of 60!

If we take a look at our family life expectancies as well as family medical histories, the term "old" could easily mean 60 years old if the family history dictates such. In my family's case...that would be about 93 on average when the term "old" is valid...and I've got a long way to go, lol.

goldenoldie — January 17, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye@1:58
I'm in. Real stuff there. But, seeing how the "privileged" vote on their own privileges, I don't see it happening.

mrd — January 17, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Get this, Jamie had what she calls a "Town Hall".***

Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler spoke in Goldendale Friday morning at Ayutla’s Restaurant in her first town meeting in Klickitat County since the county was officially included in the 3rd Congressional District on Jan. 3. Despite its sudden notice, a crowd filled the room to overflowing and drew faces not seen at a public meeting in Goldendale in at least months.

“We do these town meetings a lot,” Herrera Beutler said. “We do a lot of them in this format because it’s a little bit more functional to have the back and forth with the people that I serve. The largest that we’ve had is probably 150, maybe 200 people down to the smallest where we have 20, 25. This is a great turnout, and I’m excited to be here, now you’re officially part of the 3rd Congressional District, even though we knew it was coming.”

http://www.goldendalesentinel.com/story/2013/01/16/news/herrera-beutler-speaks-at-sudden-first-town-meeting-in-goldendale/1979.html

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In response to Editor Lou, we see a lot of lying and cheating from some arenas (e.g. sports and government) because we demand winning. USA - USA - USA!!!

roger — January 17, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now isn't this interesting. Between Vanwa and Golden, neither called me on calling her "crazy". Just "old" .

What's that tell us?

hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Hawk, don't you know, we are all crazy we just don't tell anyone out loud. It may come back to bite ya. Gotta pass that background check.

Hey Drift will you be applying for that job? You know, that one that Washington put out a call for. MJ expert wanted. Must have economics degree. I wonder if you can smoke it after work?

Ever time I get to a certain age they change the definition on being old. Being a great grand parent is fun though.

Finally Lou, the lying began when the money involved got to be too much for the idiots to handle.

JohnCasey — January 18, 2013 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Now isn't this interesting. Between Vanwa and Golden, neither called me on calling her "crazy". Just "old" .*

*What's that tell us?*

*hawkeye — January 17, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.*

It tells "us" that you utilized an adjective, describing what you perceive as someone who is old without checking your resources...an unsubstantiated emphatic response, typical of someone who does not have the capability of answering questions directly and only resorts to insulting behavior in discussion...typical mannerism of one who may possess a deranged mentality.

Vanwadreamer on the other hand, took the mature route without stooping to the derogatory behavior you clearly displayed and chose not to react.

Again I ask you, hawkeye...how old did you say you turned last month? Also, hawkeye...do you consider yourself old?

goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou, when it gets right down to the nitty gritty, all professional athletes (the focus of your question) are in it for the money. They've passed the threshold of "passion of sports" into the "greedy world of who makes more bucks" once they've gone from amateur to professional.

A lying athlete??? Nothing article worthy as far as I'm concerned. What is worse - A lying athlete or a lying politician??? Now that's a story! Or is it??? Nothin' new as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 6:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Hey Drift will you be applying for that job?"

No, JohnCasey. I'm retired an intend to stay so. I was considering going to that meeting, but the hours are too late. Heck, I'm usually in bed by 9 p.m.

Drift — January 18, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — January 17, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. -- "…just what is a Civic Activist anyways?"

I suspect you're referring to Mike B on the facebook side?

One might respond that this is a label favored by liberals who like to comment publicly. "Activist" usually requires actually getting out there and doing something, but even as far back as Jane Fonda and her anti-Vietnam War commentary, I guess sometimes just saying something will suffice.

If you are referring to Mike B, I see him as someone who honestly believes in Metro's 2030 plan to reduce vehicular traffic in order to protect the environment. His "activism" may also be a part of his late in life return to college to earn a Poli Sci degree at PSU. Most of what he says is what all the pro-CRC crowd is saying - stuff like LRT is the way forward in public transportation or we're overdue a big 9.0 quake that will destroy the current bridge. He's not really interested in details, though he has picked up that the funding from the various governments is critical, and is becoming less certain by the day. And he also posts his opinions on other issues of the day, e.g., David Madore and gun control.

However, a similar argument could be applied to our favorite conservative Lew Waters and his website. Or to several other people who post "over there" when an article about something that interests them comes up. (Looking in the mirror here.) And then we have the Basement....

So perhaps your definition "Near as I can tell, it must be someone who likes to chime in a lot, and tell everyone what their personal feelings are about most everything." is correct. Which means a whole lot of us are civic activists.

roger — January 18, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Kawk,

Crazy has many different meanings today.... Maybe if you were from this generation or the X gen you would know that... Crazy can also be an endearing term... I suppose in your day one would have said it right after smoking a blunt, like man that’s crazy.....But you still should have sourced your true meaning so that we wouldn't take it out of text....While you don't owe it to me maybe to everyone else . Just sayin..

Today I feel so much better after working out last night...Have been fighting a little bug lately.... and with the sun shining bright today i think I will take my little 4 legged friends to the dog park to get some much needed Vitamin D, the natural kind.....I hope everyone gets a chance to enjoy some sunshine this weekend, go for a walk, like maybe down by the river or on a trail somewhere, very therapeutic for the soul.

vanwadreamer — January 18, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

Let me ask you this.... Do you have an AARP card? I knew you did.

I turned 61 last month and yes, my body tells me that I'm old. Too many years of abuse (working, not alcohol or drugs). My mind tells me that I'm still young but evidently it refuses to sync up with the body. I appreciate that until I overdo and the body complains for longer than than I want it to. If I recall, you are within a year from me, so I figure if I'm old, then you are as well.

hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal



vanwadreamer — January 18, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.

Sorry but "in MY generation" there was no "smoking a blunt". The only blunt you smoked was a cigar, if you were a cigar smoker. I prefer torpedoes, myself. Also, I don't need to "source" an opinion.

hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***What is this world coming to? Republicans actually TRYING!***

Backing Down, House G.O.P. Offers 3-Month Debt Extension

Backing down from their hard-line stance, House Republicans said Friday that they would agree to lift the federal government’s statutory borrowing limit for three months, with a requirement that both chambers of Congress pass a budget in that time to clear the way for negotiations on long-term deficit reduction.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republicans-seek-three-month-debt-182644917.html?l=1
The agreement, reached in closed-door negotiations at a party retreat in Williamsburg, Va., was a tactical retreat for House Republicans, who were increasingly isolated in their refusal to lift the debt ceiling. Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio had previously said he would raise it only if paired with immediate spending cuts of equivalent value.
The decision by Republicans seemed to significantly reduce the threat of a federal government default in coming weeks and was welcomed by Senate Democrats. The House will consider the plan next week.

hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.

Seems to me you have someone else confused with me, hawkeye. I'm over six years younger than you. Why would you ask me about an AARP card? Anybody can order up such a card as soon as they turn 50 and it's quite handy when it comes to discounts as we near the "designated" retirement years. Heck, if you can't save a buck or two once in awhile, age progression will definitely set in when one turns 61.

If you haven't noticed yet, more people are living till their late 90's, even into their 100's. The recorded oldest person alive right now is around 115 years young. Most of them will tell you...you're old when you believe you're old. Kind of like that glass which is half full rather than half empty. You may think you're old, but I sure as heck don't think that about myself.

goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 12:27 p.m

Well good for you.

hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have some concerns about what direction our government is headed. With the potential for our debt ceiling to be raised yet again in order to avoid a necessary shutdown by our government, what will this do to the value of the US dollar? How many more times will the debt ceiling be raised in order to avoid a complete fiscal failure/government shutdown and when will our government realize that something is definitely NOT working because of the dire need to raise the debt ceiling again???

Anybody check out the debt ceiling charts lately??? Something is definitely wrong when it comes to finances and our government. Have we become so dependent on our government to the point that we are disabling the very foundation of our nation's freedom due to the needs of our government to borrow on their debts???

Have the people become so paranoid with political correctness when it comes to writing new laws and enforcing them???

And when do we say enough is enough when it comes to the media (sorry Columbian) reporting on so many issues with such inability to stick to the details rather than reporting what sells, sending our nation into a widespread panic with new laws enacted...sometimes with executive orders...and more government funding needed to support those laws???

I find it a little ironic that very little has been reported about the father of the man shot and killed at Clackamas Town Center...the father who stated it wasn't the gun that killed the man. It was the shooter who killed his son. He also said it was like blaming a pencil for a misspelled word. Instead of focusing on the issue of gun theft and the use of stolen weaponry being used in mass shooting such as this, our government...thanks to the hype of the news...focuses on locking up the rights of responsible gun owners...and at what price??? How much money has gone into the debate regarding the right to bear arms and what should be done about it???

It's no wonder our government is in the financial crisis it is in today. Ever since buying on credit was established, the American people began diving downward financially...sending many over the edge into the abyss of financial doom. Now the powers that be are facing the very same problem. It's just a matter of time now, before our government falls into that very same abyss...unless they realize that they can no longer spend like there's no tomorrow. They can no longer blame 12/21/2012 for their spending habits.

goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 1:59 p.m.

glad you approve

goldenoldie — January 18, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjbJO...

**Rick Santorum Blames Gay Marriage, Abortion And Porn Ideals On College Indoctrination**

Rick Santorum said the nation's colleges are promoting a "sea of antagonism toward Christianity" and "indoctrinating" its youth with ideals that support gay marriage, abortion and pornography.

Santorum called in to Tony Perkins' "Washington Watch" on Tuesday to talk about the 40th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade ruling. The conversation dealt not only with abortion but also included other "symptoms" that have changed the nation.

Perkins spoke broadly, saying pro-choice Americans represent a troubled country that doesn't choose life, meaning "That is to follow the principals, the teachings, the instructions of God ... You see that as you've been in Washington, D.C. There is a rejection of this idea of truth, and that there is a foundation or morality, which needs to be upheld."

..

Santorum has long been against gay marriage and anti-abortion. When he was in the running for the GOP presidential nomination, he vowed to initiate a war on porn if elected. Santorum received his undergraduate degree from Pennsylvania State University, an M.B.A. from the University of Pittsburgh and a J.D. from the Dickinson School of Law but has criticized the notion that college is a critical entry point to the middle class.

"President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob!" Santorum said last February, according to the New York Times. "There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to the test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate him. I understand why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image."

*The Times highlighted a 2008 study that disproved the theory that going to college makes students increasingly liberal. The study found that 18 to 24-year-old students' ideals shifted somewhat leftward, but this was in line with normally occurring shifts in that age group regardless of education.*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/rick-santorum-blames-gay-marriage-abortion-porn-college-indoctrination_n_2501970.html

nailingit — January 18, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I picked up some of your Santiam green beans at Winco. I prefer fresh or frozen, but at 33 cents , it’s hard to beat the price. Considering what the farmer puts into growing and harvesting the product and what the cannery puts into canning and the cost of the packaging materials plus transportation all the way around it’s quite remarkable that that can can:) be sold for 33 cents. I wonder if Winco makes anything, or if it’s a leader item, or if the cannery is unloading excess product. Even more impressive if everyone along that supply chain actually makes a profit.

kn_dalai — January 18, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 18, 2013 at 12:24 p.m.

When they tried to cut spending they were trying, and the press misrepresented why S&P; cut our credit rating. Now there will be nobody to blame the downgrade on. If you read the August 2011 statement from S&P; on the downgrade, it was because cuts were not enough and they said that if we cut less than the agreed upon amount that our rating may drop to AA, which we have.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 18, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

In other news Fred Phelps de facto head of the democratic party said "We represent Jesus Christ & God Almighty w/a message of uncompromising opposition to this filthy homosexual takeover of our beloved country."

frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I have some concerns about what direction our government is headed. With the potential for our debt ceiling to be raised yet again in order to avoid a necessary shutdown by our government, what will this do to the value of the US dollar? How many more times will the debt ceiling be raised in order to avoid a complete fiscal failure/government shutdown and when will our government realize that something is definitely NOT working because of the dire need to raise the debt ceiling again???"

crazy thing is, this is a stupid fight over expenditures Congress has already approved. And now they don't want to fund those previously approved expenditures?

A crazy thing I read on Al Jazeera, the "Affordable Healthcare Act" is a response to Democrats' notion of "basic healthcare for all" similiar to Medicare, which was refuted by Republicans, and subsquently adopted, to a Republican version . So given that, the Republicans, thru Obama's relentless deal-making compromises and a basic surrender, explain why the US provides a low-level of health care to all. That alone would explain why the US can only beat out Turkey & Mexico as a country's ability to provide healthcare to it's citizens, complemented by the fact we seem to "need" a health care system for profit.

When some other country offers to help us out, maybe we should take their help, we need it. The broke government will never admit it can't, or won't, but the folks in Staten Island-or those other devastaded places- will probably take some help from anyone, maybe China could throw a few billion this way. We need it-we're Haiti on a larger scale.

mrd — January 18, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*... de facto head ...*
frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.

Thanks for the shark jumping.

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Got some of those beans. Wife added some fresh crushed garlic, diced onions and a little EVOO. She also drained some of the water out. She uses a small frying pan.

Anyway, on to the issues of the day.

Why do people continue to post the names of people who have got into bad situations like the shooting yesterday. On the FB side comments were posted that gave the victim's name without verification. I'm sure someone ran to tell the family before law enforcement could do it. Not very bright and it could be the wrong person. How would you feel if someone called you and said one of your relatives was injured or killed in an incident, and it wasn't true?

No matter what he did, his folks don't deserve to be informed like that. I'm speaking from experience.

JohnCasey — January 19, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:22 a.m.

Just a "strawman" fallacy response to a "strawman" fallacy post.

frobert — January 19, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"A crazy thing I read on Al Jazeera, the "Affordable Healthcare Act" is a response to Democrats' notion of "basic healthcare for all" similiar to Medicare, which was refuted by Republicans, and subsquently adopted, to a Republican version . So given that, the Republicans, thru Obama's relentless deal-making compromises and a basic surrender, explain why the US provides a low-level of health care to all. "

mrd — January 18, 2013 at 6:54 p.m.

????

Maybe you should point us to the story; or relisten to it and clear up your confused commentary...

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 19, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. (

and more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v;=t4ZGKI8vpcg

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The big lie to me right now is the economic lie. There is no solution to our economic problems in our life time unless we re engineer how we do things. The model is a failure.*

holycrapola — January 19, 2013 at 6:37 a.m.

Your details seem a little thin on the ground. Perhaps you could point us toward some sources explaining how you know "The model is a failure" and then some thinking on what constitutes "re engineer how we do things.".

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Challengers from the Sidelines:
Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right**
Arie Perliger
The Combating Terrorism Center at West Point

**The Landscape of the American Violent Far Right**

There are three major ideological movements within the American violent far right: a racist/white supremacy movement, an anti-federalist movement and a fundamentalist movement.

The ideological characteristics of the different movements affect their operations in terms of tactics used, targets selected, and operations conducted.

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*and the press misrepresented why S&P; cut our credit rating.*

frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.

That is a rather broad paintbrush you are using to write with.....

"the reason for the downgrade was congressional dysfunction." CSM 06 Aug 2011

WSM quotes at length from the S&P; statement, citing specifically Congress's inaction.

And those are just two......

You might avail yourself of the news databases your tax dollars provide through the public library.

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""The big lie to me right now is the economic lie. There is no solution to our economic problems in our life time unless we re engineer how we do things. The model is a failure."""*

**holycrapola**, I agree with you regarding the economic lie but my questions to you are as follows - How can "we" engineer how we do things without losing the basic rights set forth in our constitution or without putting seniors on the street??? Is this something which would be an overnight fix or is this something we see on a long-term basis? I so wish you could produce an outline of ideas of economic engineering so everybody could get started.

In my opinion...it should begin with the credit card industry. Every human should refrain from utilizing plastic cash. It is the very foundation of what has put so many into long-term debt, digging deeper as the debt limits rise...courtesy of the banking industry who in the past, used to raise ours any time we came close to our limits and managed our bill paying with no late payments. It was as though they were waiting for us to fudge on our bill paying so they could raise the interest rate. Shysters for sure!! We beat them out, luckily...paid it off and never used it again unless we would pay the balance at the next billing cycle. Hmm...our government...gotten in too deep for their own good???

So yeah...I believe everyone should eliminate credit cards and of course, credit ratings for every facet of our lives, including the cost of auto/homeowner insurance and job acquisitions.

Secondly, I believe these quickie payday-loan companies that provide quick cash on your next paycheck should be eliminated. That needs to start with the customers learning not to spend what they don't have in their pockets to spend in the first place.

Any more ideas???

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.

"You might avail yourself of the news databases your tax dollars provide through the public library."

...and you might want to read what S&P; actually said, not some liberal pundit's spin on what they said.

frobert — January 19, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""...crazy thing is, this is a stupid fight over expenditures Congress has already approved. And now they don't want to fund those previously approved expenditures?"""*

**mrd**, would you please give me some examples and clarify when these expenditures were approved? I am just speculating at this time on the subject as it could have something to do with the timing of the approvals and pressures put upon the Congress either by economic times or by the president to fund such expenditures. An example - many Congress members said it themselves that when it came to "Obamacare" that it wasn't a perfect plan, but it was the only plan at the time. Seems to me that nothing is perfect when it comes to policies and government decisions. Not saying it should be pulled...just saying human error in decision making in DC doesn't necessarily benefit everyone and sometimes needs reviewing.

As far as I'm concerned, it's never too late to pull the plug on something even after it was approved if it doesn't benefit the people and reduces the economic stability of our nation.

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 19, 2013 at 7:20 a.m.

WSJ quoted the S&P; statement accurately.

You, however, made a broad paintbrush statement which has been shown to be inaccurate.

And now you are attempting to shift the topic.

Just like you have decided to drop any attempts to prove many of your previous claims.

Hence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v;=t4ZGKI8vpcg

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmm...here's something that will definitely raise an eyebrow:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/10/50-examples-of-government-waste

I certainly hope they are correcting these issues and are continuing to find more problems and correct the problem of wasteful government spending before hitting us all with more taxes, fees, tolls and whatever else they creatively call it these days.

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 7:30 a.m.

"The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan
that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of
what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's
medium-term debt dynamics."

"We could lower the
long-term rating to 'AA' within the next two years if we see that less
reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new
fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government
debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case."

frobert — January 19, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I love the way the press, in general, is circling the wagons and making sure its consumers focus on the Notre Dame football player's part in the imaginary girlfriend issue, not theirs.

Yep. He was duped big time.

But, what about the journalists who eagerly lapped the sweet sauce up and spewed it out as truth? Hurting for a good story and some attention?

My friend says something that should be familiar to all ethical journalists:

If Mom tells you she loves you, check the statement's accuracy before you hit the publish button.

manthou — January 19, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil, an excerpt-

In reality, Marx's dream was still a dream, minorities were second-class citizens, and women were treated like doormats, as they say. And the end of ideology was an illusion advanced by the professional elite, because they believed their values had become, or should become, the values of everyone else. Hence, the values of the elite were normal, reasonable and valid while everyone else's were crazy, crass or illegitimate. During the health care debate, for instance, Obama dropped a plan to implement Medicare-for-all and instead took up a Republican plan (ie, "Obamacare"). Liberals were furious, but his spokesman said Obama's critics were out of touch. Compared to the delusions of the "professional left", Obama was a "realist".

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/01/201311613149243593.html

mrd — January 19, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my gosh...this is getting ridiculous when it comes to wasted government spending. According to Tom Coburn, R - US Senator from Oklahoma, the government has funded part of a $27 million dollar grant from U.S. Agency for International Development for Moroccan Pottery Classes. He also stated in his *Wastebook 2012*, that the NFL, NHL and the PGA, professional leagues that generate billions of dollars in profits annually receive tax loopholes which cost the taxpayers an estimated $91 million!!! And we consider these athletes heroes as the very entity they are a part of stripping us dry???

There are several other expenditures that we the taxpayers are paying for which seem like nothing in the money barrel, unless they're added together.

Disgusting!!!

Good thing our president had signed EO 13589, promoting efficient spending. It's a start.

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


go-

virtually all federal expenditures that will necessitate raising the debt ceiling have already been appropriated by Congress. Some of these appropriations could be many years old.

mrd — January 19, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal



manthou — January 19, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

Ohhh...if only more people would wake up and smell the coffee like we have!!! No offense to *Mister Lou* and his *Press Talk* column, but it seems to me an editor is accepting that lying is...well...okay??? Makes a person think long and hard about what they're reading in the media these days, huh!

..

**Lou**, how 'bout it? You did say in your column "Truth is, I can't envision a world void of lies. Not gonna happen. So — I suspect — our goal should be to manage the lies we're all going to tell and to limit the amount of lying we do." Then, while referencing your admission to an accident when you were younger, you said in jest -

*"Honest! (OK, I'm lying.)"*

Feeling a bit flushed???

Once upon a time, the news was spoken with honesty and integrity. What happened???

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — January 19, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.

Change happens. It's never too late.

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*In other news Fred Phelps de facto head of the democratic party*

frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.

Funny stuff! By and large you seem..humorless. Your post was refreshing at some level.

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 19, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.

As discussed in both the CSM and WSJ and other newspaper and magazine articles from the period.

Which puts a lie to your claim:

***and the press misrepresented why S&P; cut our credit rating.***

frobert — January 18, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.

Or maybe, it is just the sources you read that did the misrepresenting of what the "..press misrepresented..."

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie @ 7:50 am: It would be more honest if journalists would add their own names to the long list of liars. It's more fun, however, to divert the attention to others, and more successful since they own all the ink.

But honest and liar as descriptors for the same person is an oxymoron to the max.

manthou — January 19, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 7:51 a.m.

Does Coburn point to the various military sponsorships of racecar teams?

And remember a couple of years back when he talked about shrimp on treadmills? Turns out the research was profitable for the US shrimp / seafood industry......

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.

I cant't follow your "logic" on that one.

frobert — January 19, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — January 19, 2013 at 7:48 a.m.

The Republican party platform for '56 wanted better healthcare (and several other things that is anathema to their current positions).

What your article is discussing is more related to the AMA/Reagan / et al lobbying than to a nominally D / R reduction.

See also http://www.pdacommunity.org/index.php?option=com_content&view;=category&layout;=blog&id;=29&Itemid;=54

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — January 19, 2013 at 8:19 a.m.

You claimed "press misrepresented". I've shown examples where the S&P; statement was fully acknowledged and quoted.

That puts a lie to your claim.

I'm suggesting the sources you've chosen to read might be the one making the "press misrepresented" claim.

Yes, there was much outcry and fingerpointing to the dept ceiling being the cause of the downrating. Look at who were making that claim.

But your claim was a broad brushstroke that is demonstrably unsupportable and false.

And we'll also note that your labeling of the WSJ as "some liberal pundit's spin " is pretty laughable.

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.

I'm not sure if he did mention the race car team sponsorships and at what price, but definitely one worth mentioning.

Regarding shrimp on treadmills...

I get your point. It sounds totally ridiculous, but the "treadmill" testing was only a part of the study funded by the government TO the National Science Foundation in order to test the metabolic structure of shrimp and whether or not they were weakening...possibly due to pollution or global climate change. I believe Representative Coburn brought it to the attention of the people in order for the study to be publicized so that people could see why the funding was spent and if it truly was necessary, wouldn't you think??? Isn't that what our elected officials are supposed to be doing....looking for anything that even remotely resembles wasteful spending and cut the spending if it doesn't benefit the American people or the government?

I would like to see any link which proves this study improved the shrimp industry and just who it actually benefited...if you have that available, Basil.

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 19, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.

The construction industry jobs in Oregon are reportedly improving with new housing in demand according to the local television news stations. Are these the kinds of jobs we should be focusing upon??? I'm not hearing of very many new industrial/commercial companies opening in the area other than more 7-Elevens, Walmarts and expansion of local grocers....nothing which supports a family these days. So how could a community support itself if all we're doing is expanding housing and retail shops??? And who is it that benefits???

Is society only expanding on a welfare state???

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Does Coburn point to the various military sponsorships of racecar teams?*

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.

Tom Coburn. Isn't he the one who negotiated and facilitated a payoff to john Ensigns adulteress lover to cover up a lurid sex scandal? It's unfortunate Coburn was not brought up on charges. One of the biggest sex Senate scandals in American history was by and large swept under the rug.

--

Coburn refused to pay for any military intervention, now he's a fiscal hawk. Ya gotta love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmf_d...

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.

Read the Coburn / Fox / et al coverage of the 'treadmill study' and compare it to the actual evidence. Pretty obvious that "even remotely resembles " isn't an accurate description but yet an attempt at the obstructionism rampant in the R party.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/23/139852035/shrimp-on-a-treadmill-the-politics-of-silly-studies
and
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/998264--why-it-s-important-to-put-a-shrimp-on-a-treadmill
and
http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2011/08/25/shrimp-on-treadmills-laundry-f/

covers that aspect fairly well.

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW folks, according to several links I'd come upon, the National Guard supported NASCAR a whopping $26.2 MILLION in sponsorship in 2012. It is also reported that the National Guard sponsored $2.25 million on a superbike (Suzuki) fielded by Michael Jordan Motorsports while receiving 15 times in its investment in media exposure with a return in investment of over $32 million. Makes you wonder how much return in investment they got for NASCAR, huh!

And how do they account for this profit...and where does the money go?

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.

Coburn makes me appreciate that we have the so much less crazy Jamie as our Rep., though there are many examples of other states and districts not being so 'lucky'.....

Now look at the committees Coburn is on and think about how he got there......

mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.

Thanks for the links. Obviously, "shrimp treadmill" was the catchall phrase used to bring to note scientific studies which were deemed "ridiculous" by some even though to others, they were necessary.

It still brings up the question in my mind of "When is enough, enough" when it comes to providing grants for certain studies and are they truly beneficial? Seems to me in the case of the shrimp studies, they knew there was a bacteria in the water which was weakening the health of the shrimp, so why not find a way to combat the problem rather than confirming the obvious???

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not one seasoned politician who doesn't have something in their history which has caused a stir. Yet another suggest towards term limits, perhaps???

goldenoldie — January 19, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, more guns are the answer! How about a student gun rack in every school?

This is just the beginning.

**Armed School Security Guard Clark Arnold Leaves Gun Unattended In Student Bathroom**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/armed-school-security-gua_n_2505747.html

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


once upon a time....

the average american was middle-class, defined as a working male (and frequently working mom too), had a car payment, a mortgage and a job that let them live relatively crisis-free. they may even have been upper-middle class and put away money for the kids college, and took the occasional lavish vacation.

the country they lived in pretty-much kept its' regulatory nose out of their lives and businesses.

then along came Scandals; there was contamination in the water, preference for loans and jobs offered based on skin color or sex.

then the most horrible thing happened. the Screaming Harpies arose and cast a spell over the land, especially universities and news outlets.

So, instead of dealing with the real issues the land faced, they went on a snipe hunt for 'those responsible', and erected walls and walls of laws to combat them.

the land changed then. common sense was paved over by yellow journalism and replaced by Harpie True Believers and their secret attack on the sacred Scroll.

the minority became the loudest sound in the land, and did battle with common sense. being loudest, the people no longer had access to common sense advice, and succumbed to the Screaming Harpies.

the land is now ruled by True Believers whose mission it is to impose their value system upon all in the land regardless of the ancient Scrolls giving The People power to oppose them.

Will the land be overrun and the Scrolls trampled by The Harpies?

The enchanted schools and news sources are loyally busy at their task, convincing The People that their vision is reality, and all others evil.

only time, and individuals shaking off the spell will determine the success of The Harpie's struggle to control the uninformed, dim-witted masses with the Superior Intellect of the Harpie elite and destroy the Sacred Ancient Scrolls forever.

DeeLittle — January 19, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Turkish politics look tough!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyadNI3Zsow

**Ahmed Dogan Assassination Attempt: Gunman Aims Gun At Turkish Politician's Head (PHOTO, VIDEO)**

A gunman reportedly attempted to assassinate the leader of Bulgaria's ethnic Turkish party during a televised conference on Saturday.

The leader of Bulgaria’s Movement for Rights and Freedoms (MRF) party, Ahmed Dogan, was assaulted by a gunman while on stage at the National Palace of Culture (NDK) in Sofia, according to the Sofia Globe. The assailant, 25-year-old Oktai Enimehmedov, climbed onstage and held a gun to Dogan's head, but the gun reportedly got stuck and was unable to shoot.

The Times also reports that the gun appeared to misfire, giving Dogan enough time to bat away the gunman's arm before he was assisted by security guards.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/ahmed-dogan-assassination-attempt-photo-crazed-gunman_n_2511483.html?ref=topbar

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...or Bulgarian?

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maher rants something I think we can all agree with. Spot on!

**Bill Maher On Gun Rights vs. Privacy: Second Amendment Isn't Under Attack, Everything Else Is (VIDEO)**

Bill Maher dressed down the gun lobby on his first "Real Time" of 2013, but not in the way you might have expected. Addressing gun huggers everywhere, Maher explained, "It's not your second amendment rights that are under attack, it's all the other ones."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/bill-maher-gun-rights-privacy_n_2511378.html

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


He had the safety on. To "jam" it must have a spent cartridge exiting the chamber or a live one entering.

Dummy.

Some assassin, eh?

Drift — January 19, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> And we'll also note that your labeling of the WSJ as "some liberal pundit's spin " is pretty laughable. -- mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
>
> While the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal is conservative, the newspaper's news pages are liberal, even more liberal than The New York Times. The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left. Coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media. Meanwhile, almost all major media outlets tilt to the left. -- [http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx][1]

From the actual study:

- One surprise is the Wall Street Journal, which we find as the most liberal of all 20 news outlets. We should first remind readers that this estimate (as well as all other newspaper estimates) refers only to the news of the Wall Street Journal; we omitted all data that came from its editorial page. If we included data from the editorial page, surely it would appear more conservative.

- Second, some anecdotal evidence agrees with our result. For instance, Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid (2001) note that “The Journal has had a long-standing separation between its conservative editorial pages and its liberal news pages.” Paul Sperry, in an article titled the “Myth of the Conservative Wall Street Journal,” notes that the news division of the Journal sometimes calls the editorial division “Nazis.” “Fact is,” Sperry writes, “the Journal’s news and editorial departments are as politically polarized as North and South Korea.”[24]
- Our results show a strong liberal bias. All of the news outlets except Fox News’ Special Report and the Washington Times received a score to the left of the average member of Congress. And a few outlets, including the New York Times and CBS Evening News, were closer to the average Democrat in Congress than the center. These findings refer strictly to the news stories of the outlets. That is, we omitted editorials, book reviews, and letters to the editor from our sample.
[http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm][2]

[1]: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
[2]: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


- Fox News’ Special Report is approximately one point more centrist than ABC’s World News Tonight (with Peter Jennings) or NBC’s Nightly News (with Tom Brokaw). In neither case is the difference statistically significant. Given that Special Report is one hour long and the other two shows are a half-hour long, our measure implies that if a viewer watched all three shows each night, he or she would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news. (In fact, it would be slanted slightly left by 0.4 ADA points.)
- The most centrist newspaper in our sample is USA Today. However, its distance from the center is not significantly different from the distances of the Washington Times or the Washington Post. Interestingly, our measure implies that if one spent an equal amount of time reading the Washington Times and Washington Post, he or she would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news. (It would be slanted left by only 0.9 ADA points.)
- Survey research has shown that an almost overwhelming fraction of journalists are liberal. For instance, Elaine Povich (1996) reports that only seven percent of all Washington correspondents voted for George H.W. Bush in 1992, compared to 37 percent of the American public. [2] Lichter, Rothman and Lichter, (1986) and Weaver and Wilhoit (1996) report similar findings for earlier elections. More recently, the New York Times reported that only eight percent of Washington correspondents thought George W. Bush would be a better president than John Kerry. [3] This compares to 51% of all American voters. David Brooks notes that for every journalist who contributed to George W. Bush’s campaign, 93 contributed to Kerry’s. [4]

[http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm][1]

[1]: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 2:15- I thought the same about the safety, maybe, but how could anyone be that stupid unless his actions were reactionary in some way?

Damaged clip? Spur of the moment or planned?

Given the situation, the guy had to be discreet leading up to the moment. He might have rode the slide a bit and the bullet wasn't properly seated.

Regardless, Dummy describes this guy well!

And of course there's always a chance God intervened. ; ]

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


k_nd @ 2:28, 2:36- The political/media landscape has changed much in the last **20** years.

In light of relevance, got anything a bit more current?

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**20** years? Look again.

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d- *For the congressional data, we coded all citations that occurred during the period Jan. 1, 1993 to December 31, 2002. This covered the 103rd thru 107th Congresses. We used the period 1993 to 1999 to calculate the average adjusted ADA score for members of Congress.[15]*

1993+20+2013.

Today is Saturday, the nineteenth day of January in this year of 2013.

*Look again.*

Now what?

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


k_nd- Given the types of allegations many of us have made against Fox, Limbaugh, Beck, etc., such as a lack of "honesty and accuracy", what point are you trying to make?

From your article..

**Our Definition of Bias**

Before proceeding, it is useful to clarify our definition of bias. **Most important, the definition has nothing to do with the honesty or accuracy of the news outlet.** Instead, our notion is more like a taste or preference. For instance, we estimate that the centrist U.S. voter during the late 1990s had a left-right ideology approximately equal to that of Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) or Sam Nunn (D-Ga.). Meanwhile, we estimate that the average New York Times article is ideologically very similar to the average speech by Joe Lieberman (D-Ct.). Next, since vote scores show Lieberman to be more liberal than Specter or Nunn, our method concludes that the New York Times has a liberal bias. However, in no way does this imply that the New York Times is inaccurate or dishonest—just as the vote scores do not imply that Joe Lieberman is any less honest than Sam Nunn or Arlen Specter.

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ 3:40- Did not mean to confuse. 1993+20+2013..should be 1993+20**=**2013

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, everything was adjusted to an estimated 1999 House scale.

The actual data was gathered from differing time periods.

Data gathered from the CBS Evening News was from the 1/1/90 to 6/26/03 period. For the Wall Street Journal from 1/1/02 to 5/1/02. For the LA Times from 6/28/02 to 12/29/02.
The paper was published in 2004.

Perhaps you are suggesting that the newsroom of the WSJ and others, has changed from Left to Right over the last 10 to 12 years.















kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d-*Data gathered from the CBS Evening News was from the 1/1/90 to 6/26/03 period.*

Now it's 23 years?

To repeat..

In light of relevance, got anything a bit more current?

Bias in media will always exist at some level. Honesty and accuracy are paramount. So again...

k_nd- Given the types of allegations many of us have made against Fox, Limbaugh, Beck, etc., such as a lack of "honesty and accuracy", what point are you trying to make?

***Before proceeding, it is useful to clarify our definition of bias. Most important, the definition has nothing to do with the honesty or accuracy of the news outlet. Instead, our notion is more like a taste or preference.***

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, everything was adjusted to an estimated 1999 House scale.

My point:

> And we'll also note that your labeling of the WSJ as "some liberal pundit's spin " is pretty laughable. -- mr_basil_seal — January 19, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
>
> •One surprise is the Wall Street Journal, which we find as the most liberal of all 20 news outlets. -- [http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm][1]

[1]: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Politics, pundit's, politician's, issue's, lawmaking, America's political sphere has shifted far to the right in the last twelve years, extremely right in the last five years. We're actually having to deal with issues such as contraception, abortion, voting rights, collective bargaining, the very foundations Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, etc., issues & rights being trounced on by a radical right with a religious/corporate/skewed ideological agenda.

Of course newsrooms/media have been affected.

One could say Right wing social engineering.

The House the worst ever, but to a few, I'm guessing you would be one of them, Congress is doing well in not allowing elected government to exercise the will of it's people. To limit the scope of federal government.

Last election was just a beginning. Republican debates, lawmaking, policy offerings etc. woke the public up.

As well as providing the best entertainment politics have to offer. I miss them!

In light of relevance, got anything a bit more current?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsHw92...

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Today would have been the 70th birthday of the greatest singer in rock 'n' roll history - Janis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkGUt4...

roger — January 19, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, female singer anyhow.

roger — January 19, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So if “Politics, pundit's, politician's, issue's, lawmaking, America's political sphere has shifted far to the right in the last twelve years, extremely right in the last five years.” ... then how come Democratics picked up seats in the House and Senate and also the WH again? What in the world has happened to your Leftist idea of some big mandate?

“Of course newsrooms/media have been affected.” ... Now just how do you know this? Are the newsrooms of the WSJ, NY Times and The CBS Evening News now a bunch of Right Wingers?

And just where did your bit about “Right wing social engineering” come from? If you’re referring to the Newt Gingrich video you posted; here is what Gingrich said “I don’t think Right Wing social engineering, is any more desirable than Left Wing social engineering.”

One will note, that you do not wish to address basil’s comment about the WSJ, nor acknowledge my own comments regarding the time frame of the study.

The bias factor is the important thing here. Certainly bias involves issues of half truths, omissions. Cherry picking data. Certainly, one can be slanted in these things, while believing themselves to be fair. Perhaps you would care to forego your Leftists rags, and instead subscribe to the Washington Times as your big news source.

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 19, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.

I have to agree. She could really belt it out.

hawkeye — January 19, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*then how come Democratics picked up seats in the House and Senate and also the WH again?*

Again..Last election was just a beginning. Republican debates, lawmaking, policy offerings etc. woke the public up.

*“Of course newsrooms/media have been affected.” ... Now just how do you know this? Are the newsrooms of the WSJ, NY Times and The CBS Evening News now a bunch of Right Wingers?*

Cause & effect+observation. But I'd agree we need up to date information rather than relying on 20 plus year old data.

*here is what Gingrich said “I don’t think Right Wing social engineering, is any more desirable than Left Wing social engineering.”*

And what proceeded and came after. Context kn_d, we've had these conversations before. Even if you don't understand it, Newt's buddies did and it caused quite a stir.

The fact you would even dispute this.... you're starting to sound like...

*One will note, that you do not wish to address basil’s comment about the WSJ,*

? I agree, Pretty laughable. A look at their editorial section, especially since Murdoch took it over is more than telling. Do you ever read it?

*nor acknowledge my own comments regarding the time frame of the study*

again X again..@ 3:40

*The bias factor is the important thing here. Certainly bias involves issues of half truths, omissions. Cherry picking data.*

**Before proceeding, it is useful to clarify our definition of bias. Most important, the definition has nothing to do with the honesty or accuracy of the news outlet. Instead, our notion is more like a taste or preference.**

*Perhaps you would care to forego your Leftists rags, and instead subscribe to the Washington Times as your big news source.*

So many need a hero or publication for validation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIaFtA...

At some point...

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And one will note, that once again, you have not actually answered anything at all.

And BTW, as I've told you before, you obviously have no understanding of the word "context."

Is this what you Leftists actually think of as good debate?
This game playing rhetoric, is quite nonsense, and serves no useful purpose other than to evade and confound.

kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDHXiv...

Obama's funny moments are much different than Bush's were.

Maybe it's because we can laugh with him, instead of laugh at him.

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And one will note, that once again, you have not actually answered anything at all.*

Your response, as predictable as it is repetitive from past posts.

*And BTW, as I've told you before, you obviously have no understanding of the word "context."*

And as I have tried to enlighten you before. Again...with feeling :)

con·text noun \ˈkän-ˌtekst\

Definition of CONTEXT

1: the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning

2: the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting

*Is this what you Leftists actually think of as good debate?*

Assuming I fit your "Leftists label", I can only speak for myself.

No. Much to one sided and your viewpoint was poorly represented. Besides, I wasn't aware our conversation was so much a debate as it was clarifying some of your own posts you weren't understanding.

*This game playing rhetoric, is quite nonsense, and serves no useful purpose other than to evade and confound.*

It wasn't my intent to leave you .. confounded.

Dagnabbit!

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*You can't make this stuff up.*

**Cross-Dressing Crystal Meth Priest Case Takes Sex Shop Twist**

The case of a Connecticut priest indicted this week on charges of distributing crystal meth took a bizarre turn as strange new details came to light concerning the religious leader's life after leaving the priesthood.

Monsignor Kevin Wallin, who went on sabbatical prior to stepping down as pastor of the St. Augustine Parish in Bridgeport, Conn., in 2012, allegedly sold shipments of meth to undercover cops several times between September 2012 and January 2013.

Wallin, a long-time member of the Sacred Heart University Board of Trustees, was arrested Jan. 3. According to the New York Post, the meth Wallin sold during the undercover drug stings tested as 98.5 percent pure.

Now it appears the man some have nicknamed "Monsignor Meth" may have engaged in a host of illicit and unconventional activities, in addition to the drug dealing. New allegations include cross-dressing, having sex in the St. Augustine rectory and laundering meth profits through a North Haven sex shop called Land of Oz.

Diocese Spokesman Brian Wallace told The Connecticut Post that while officials had received no complaints about Wallin's alleged drug dealing, parishioners became alarmed in 2011 by Wallin's increasingly bizarre behavior.

A source told the Post that rectory officials were aware that Wallin occasionally cross-dressed and engaged in sex acts with "odd-looking men," who also sometimes dressed in women's clothing. Diocese officials said they found "bizarre sex toys" in the residence, according to the source.

“My wife, my brother-in-law and my kids go there, I think it is disgusting — they should do something about it,” David Rosenbaum, a neighbor who lives two doors down from the parish, told local news station Pix 11.

Wallin and four other suspects face charges relating to drug distribution. If convicted, Wallin faces a minimum of 10 years in prison for conspiracy, plus an additional 20 or more years on related charges.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/cross-dressing-crystal-meth-priest-case-sex-shop_n_2507160.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Hilda Solis, Outgoing Labor Secretary, Reflects On Economic Recovery, Right-Wing Attacks**

As it turned out, being the bearer of bad news on the first Friday of the month wasn't the most challenging part of the job. The Labor Department issues and enforces rules and regulations on employers. This process may escape the notice of most Americans, but business groups and lawmakers on Capitol Hill pay close attention. As with outgoing Environmental Protection Agency chief Lisa Jackson, some of the rules that Solis' department championed -- **commonsense requirements to protect workers, her backers say -- were assailed by Republicans as job-killing red tape that would hurt businesses in a down economy.**

Solis said she was surprised at the level of GOP attacks on regulations after Democrats lost the House in 2010, even though she had been a congresswoman from California before.

**"Many of these regulations and enforcement procedures are common sense," Solis said. "They save lives, they save money. It's not like we came in and used a hammer on [employers]. What we did was enforce our laws."**

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/hilda-solis-labor-secretary-exit-interview_n_2508099.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — January 19, 2013 at 11:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ROGER**

you nailed it the 1st time: best ever. runner-up is aerosmith. heard their new stuff? it's a combo of degenerate teenager and wisdom of older years.

best poli-toon:

http://www.creators.com/editorial_cartoons/21/25313_thumb.gif

DeeLittle — January 20, 2013 at 3:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal



holyc...

Why do you think I never trust what the news puts out these days??? The information on the internet isn't 100% accurate. To be honest, the article you speak of is one of the first which puts Ms. H-B into the spotlight in a positive fashion and because of that, I believe that most will sit back and never contact her with their expectations of what she should or shouldn't be doing for us which in my book...is not the way things should be done by the folks of the 3rd Congressional District. We voted her in...again and we expect her to continue down the path she was elected for in the first place. The article emphasizes just that. She has recognized the fact that the voters...for the THIRD time...have said in our own way that we DO NOT WANT LIGHT RAIL IN CLARK COUNTY and supports the very same sentiment. It's more than I can say for some who are only in their first term or are seasoned politicians, whether they be at the Federal, State, County or City level!!!

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and Holyc...a bit off subject -

By all appearances, some here on the forum continue to provide links to certain untrustworthy web news(?) sites which profit from sensationalized reporting...the same people here on the forum who continue with such an attempt with a warped sense of mind to drum up support by others who cannot find it in their heart to reach out and find the goodness in priests in the Catholic faith (or any other faith but mostly direct attacks to the Catholic faith) who with honesty and integrity, truly have the best interests of their community in their hearts...and possibly, these same forum dwellers that show explicit signs of a social disorder with feeble attempts at slander due to sensationalizing these articles of a minimal but select group of individuals with mental issues, even though the rest of society is also plagued with such issues...not just the Catholic Church. It's a sick world we live in right now...and this disease of defamation should truly be nicked in the bud as far as I'm concerned. They know who they are...

They need help.

Maybe stepping away from the computer and attending a few Catholic services and volunteering at Catholic-based community outreach facilities supported by the Catholic Archdiocese would be a good start. Then they could see it first hand what the Catholic faith is all about.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. and continuing onto a point of abusing copyright law.....

Now, for the rest of the story.

Look up the critical analysis of the report. Which the lead author later turned into a book with equally invalid conclusions.

Interesting, trying to 'prove' a point by using a press release rather than actually citing the actual report....

And ignoring the later analysis of the report.

A technique oft used by the climate deniers in their attempt to misuse information in efforts to sway opinion rather than actually going out and doing the research.

mr_basil_seal — January 20, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 20, 2013 at 7:04 a.m.

Actually Holyc...it is my opinion that light rail has everything to do with the problem. Not because of the transit needs expressed by CRC and local powers that be, but because of the dire need to refrain from such a project BECAUSE of the very issues you have pointed out. There's no jobs to speak of here in our county, so why do the powers that be decide that now is a time to knock us all to our knees with tolls and increased taxes in order to pay for a light rail for a very select few??? Most of the jobs won't be given to Clark County companies because of the fact most have moved to Portland or closed down due to the poor economic climate. That is, except for one or two highly-publicized companies here in Clark County who have done other major freeway and overpass jobs in recent years....and that's very limited as far as promoting jobs. They've already got the staff they need. They won't be doing a lot of hiring for any crossing project...light rail included.

Robbing Peter(people of Clark/Multnomah Counties) in order to pay Paul(TriMet) so that they can acquire a wider tax region for acquisition of more federal tax dollars and grants rather than allowing C-Tran to expand to a more efficient transit system is like kicking our bus drivers into the street as TriMet will continue to expand their light rail system throughout Clark County, reducing the need for buses.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 20, 2013 at 7:04 a.m.

In my opinion you're correct that attracting businesses which will provide good jobs should be our number 1 priority here. Trying to get to the bottom of why we can't do so is the problem; there have been a few "studies" with differing results.

But what Goldie ID's - light rail - is part of how our locals go off half cocked looking for that solution. The only possible value for Clark County that LRT might provide is to support the development of that dorm town model you mention. What including LRT in the CRC plan does is, at a minimum, triple the cost of the project (people tend focus on the $800 million for LRT itself, and ignore the increased cost of the two-level bridge). Read Tiffany LeMay Couch's comment to yesterday's article Highway Money Uncertain for the CRC - she notes how tolling alone will remove anywhere from $55 to $83 million per year from our local economy for this project. That's money that we won't have to spend here, and that will subsequently lead to losing more jobs. Meanwhile, proponents of that project contend new jobs will be created, but they've yet to provide any sort of hard data to support this claim.

We've got to stop the bleeding before we can heal the body.

roger — January 20, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh - Something I meant to include but forgot.

The laws that are probably affecting business growth are either local or State. JHB can't do much about those. David Madore thinks he can from the County Commissioner's office; whether that pans out remains to be seen. I'm thinking the answer lies with our State legislature - the one that allegedly places the needs of the Puget Sound area first, and which definitely spends more time on social and educational issues (the latter being their first priority, per the State Constitution) than they do on trying to improve the business environment.

roger — January 20, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 7:15 a.m.

I suspect it would be quite enlightening to get behind the scenes and find out what's really going on with our local high capacity transit (HCT) plan. A couple of years ago I agreed with your assessment that the plan was to get MAX a foothold here, and then expand up to Salmon Creek and down the I205 per Metro's 2030 regional plan. But then we threw the 4th Plain BRT system into the mix, and a few documents/statements were issued that clearly show C-Tran will take over at the state line. So now we're at a stage where who knows what's being planned long term?

We do have a problem here; one that Robert Dean has been harping on for quite a while. He gets dismissed as a crank by our local power players, but he is correct in his bottom line. State law, RCW 81.104, clearly spells out that our transit agency (C-Tran) that's representing us on the joint regional transportation planning process (the CRC) is supposed to put an overall HCT system plan and financing plan to the voters living in their service area. (I suspect that's why they added the 4th Plain BRT to the latest Prop 1 ballot measure.) But we have never been allowed to vote on the system plan - the nuts and bolts, such as where the tracks will go, stations and parking garages, etc.

roger — January 20, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 20, 2013 at 8:02 a.m.

Keeping Portland Weird.

Actually there is art, culture and music here in The Couve. It's just different than what's available in P'Town. And many of us who actually live here are fighting the efforts of those like you who want us to become more like that side of the river.

roger — January 20, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HC, can you define a family-wage job for me? What's the educational background? What's the wage? I believe my definition of a decent wage might be very different from somebody else's. Not that I don't agree that we need jobs over here. But I also agree with Roger-I like Portland. But we do not need to become Portland. I do not live in Portland for specific reasons. I like Clark County. I like open land. I like it a bit slower. I like seeing cows, sheep, goats. I mourn the fact that we are hell-bent to get rid of open land and make it another Southern California.

As to getting an education via the net/online: good luck with that. I realize that there are a number of efforts under way (MOCCs, for example) but they will not be able to replace brick & mortar schools and colleges. A sad world it would be if all we ever do is sit in front of computer and never see a real person and interact to exchange ideas. Plus, most of the young students will not do well with online only. Trust me on that one.

And a good, sunny, crisp Sunday morning to all.

luvithere — January 20, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Happy Inauguration!!!** Lifting my coffee cup to our great American first family!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqUXZC...

**Republicans Lying Low For Obama Inauguration**

The U.S. Capitol is reflected in a pool as a new day starts, on January 13, 2013 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Mark Wilson/Getty Images)
WASHINGTON -- For many Republicans, this is a good weekend to get away from it all.

With hundreds of thousands of Democrats traveling to nation's capital for President Barack Obama's inauguration activities, Republicans and supporters of last fall's GOP presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, are leaving town, or staying put and trying to avoid the crowds.

After failing to recapture the White House for a second straight presidential election, many are not exactly in a partying mood.

"It's a good time to lay low," said John Feehery, the president of Quinn Gillespie Communications and a former top congressional aide.

As Democrats prepare to mark Obama's second inauguration on Monday by bundling up along the parade route or dressing up for balls, Republicans are spending the long Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend with quick vacation getaways, quiet time at home or trips to the movie theater.

Few plan any "mourning parties" or "bawls" that have been the staples of past inaugural festivities for the party out of power. But invitations to parties tend to be scarce if your candidate lost, and watching television provides a constant reminder of November's elections.

"Invitations must have gotten lost in the mail!" former Romney adviser Ed Gillespie wrote in an email saying he had no major plans for the weekend.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/republicans-inauguration_n_2510294.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> kn_dalai — January 19, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. and continuing onto a point of abusing copyright law..... -- mr_basil_seal — January 20, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.

??????

> Which the lead author later turned into a book with *equally* *invalid conclusions.*

And just how do you *know* this?

> Interesting, trying to 'prove' a point by using a press release rather than actually citing the actual report....

What? I have referenced the study multiple times. Just what "press release" are you referring to?

> And ignoring the later analysis of the report.

Look up the author's refutations and criticisms of their critics.

One will note that you have brought nothing to the table, and are yourself the denier.

kn_dalai — January 20, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*One will note that you have brought nothing to the table...*

kn_dalai — January 20, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.

Man is that familiar! If all else fails...

---

Sunday show roundup: **Obama braces for impact**

On "Meet the Press," Obama finally lays responsibility for the fiscal cliff mess on Republicans

In clearest sign yet that President Obama has abandoned hope of averting the so-called fiscal cliff in the next 48 hours, he used a rare-Sunday show appearance to come out swinging at Republicans, something he’s so far avoided doing so as to not poison relations with his negotiating partners.

On “Meet the Press” today, all pretense was gone and diplomacy jettisoned as Obama placed the blame for a potential cliff dive squarely on Republican intransigence. “The only thing I would caution against, David, is I think this notion of, ‘Well, both sides are just kind of unwilling to cooperate.’ And that’s just not true,” Obama told host David Gregory.

“I mean if you look at the facts, what you have is a situation here where the Democratic Party, warts and all, and certainly me, warts and all, have consistently done our best to try to put country first,” he added, paraphrasing John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign slogan. The clear implication: Republicans have not put country first, prioritizing ideology instead.

Obama has so far been gracious towards the opposing party in public statements on the fiscal cliff, at times frustrating liberals and other Democrats who want to see the president taking a firmer stance. Privately, Democratic aides have said this approach was aimed at keeping Republicans at the table. Obama even curbed some of his earlier campaign-style events across the country, which the GOP had complained about, as he began to sit down with Republican leaders in earnest.

But in the interview, which was taped yesterday afternoon, it was clear Obama thought he had nothing to lose by unloading on the incalcitrant Congress.Republicans, Obama said, “have trouble saying yes.” “They say that their biggest priority is making sure that we deal with the deficit in a serious way, but the way they’re behaving is that their only priority is making sure that tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans are protected… That seems to be their only overriding, unifying theme,” he said.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/30/sunday_show_roundup_obama_braces_for_impact/

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow Goldie. Catholics? Really? The most up tight, repressive, restrictive religion around. Yea, that fits.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 9:32- I would hope most Catholics are secure enough in themselves and their beliefs as to not resort to the types of character assassination we see in this forum when faced with realities.

It's totally .. not Christ like.

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting write...

Three out of four Americans are frustrated with the lack of transportation options that forces them to drive more than they would prefer, according to a new nationwide public opinion survey released today by NRDC. According to the poll results, two out of three support government investment in to expand and improve public transportation and twice as many people favor new transit – buses, trains and light rail – rather than new highways as the best way to solve America’s traffic woes.

At a press briefing this morning, NRDC's Executive Director Peter Lehner put it plainly: “Americans hate traffic and love transit."

He added that, “Investing in public transportation eases congestion but for too long most federal funding has limited people’s choices, leaving them sitting in traffic.”

..

Despite a very polarized environment on Capitol Hill when it comes to transit, there’s no pronounced partisan divide in the real world. (See chart above.) Sure, liberal Democrats are nearly five times more likely to want transit than new roads, and conservative Republicans are only 70 percent more likely to want transit – but in the end, they all tend to think transit is the way to go.

The same goes for the urban/rural split. Yes, more big city residents want public transit (50 percent) than new roads (15 percent). But even in rural areas, 36 percent say transit versus 24 percent who want roads.

"These numbers help explain the overwhelming success of transit ballot initiatives, even when those votes involve a new or increased tax. So far this year, these initiatives have an 89 percent success rate.

"While Agenda 21 conspiracy theorists believe transit investment and smart growth policies are all an elaborate UN plot, and even the Republican platform now states that Democrats are trying to force us all into “government transit,” this poll gets at the truth. It shows that across the board, most Americans are aware that road-building is not the way to handle growth. It also indicates that there could be significant public support for reforming our highway-skewed transportation policies and restoring sanity to the system, in order to give people the choices they want."

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/rperks/new_poll_finds_that_people_hat.html

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The C's labeling of JHB as a "centrist" seems kinda weird. If she votes the party line 91% of the time, to me anyway, that's not really centerist. Centerist implies center, or middle, which seems that % of party line votes would be lower, much lower.

If 91% puts one in the center, the two endpoints are a long, long way apart.

mrd — January 20, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Think as you wish but unless you are a member of the Catholic faith, you're only witnessing it from the outside. It is my opinion that a person should experience it first hand before rendering a conclusion based on assumptions or information provided by media outlets pent up on making a buck off of every chump who idolizes their website.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 20, 2013 at 8:02 a.m.

If a person has to ask God to get something, they're barking up the wrong tree unless all they're looking for is guidance and understanding. To ask God for something of materialistic value is not what religion is all about. It is those who claim "Praise the Lord and send me your check or money order or visa number, pledging the amount of..." they are the ones I steer clear from. I consider those as false prophets.

Regarding Clark County...I agree with you that ever since the early 2000's, it hasn't been a place for everyone to rush to. In fact, I think it's become quite crowded with disorganized planning by our local government and the cost of living has thrown off the balance of the quality of living here. When I moved here in the late 70's, it was a nice, rural community. Farms surrounded our neighborhood. Now...it's a cluster of estate-style homes in postage-stamp lots. There's no organization of planning, just a bunch of mini-malls tucked in just about every neighborhood with 7-Elevens popping up with Starbucks next to them. No living-wage jobs...except for the owners of these facilities...hardly enough to raise the employment stats.

Regarding the overcrowded schools...that's everywhere and for many families, schooling on the computer isn't in the cards for them. Mismanaged communities, overcrowding with no job outlooks is collapsing our economic atmosphere. So what is it our county is doing more of??? Well, if the Boise Cascade site project is any indication...it's only more of the same old, same old.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> Man is that familiar! If all else fails... -- nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.

Something you know a great deal about. As well as Alinsky's *Rules*

kn_dalai — January 20, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*As well as Alinsky's Rules*

When all else fails part deux! :))

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


well GO, I grew up with a friend that was forced to go to Catholic school, I've been to a Catholic wedding and a Catholic funeral. That was more than enough info for me.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I WAS a catholic, grew up a Catholic, lived in small village controlled by the priest. Things have changed and he lost the power, all for the better. I think I CAN speak to catholic faith. I knew 5 catholic priests in my life: one is in jail (pedophile), one is gay and still a priest (best of the bunch actually), one was pretty much a narcissistic, anti-social socio-path. And two were decent human beings that only wanted to do good. So, while I dislike the church and all it stands for (especially its very pronounced anti-female stance going back nearly 2000 years), I actually also realize that a normal parish priest and his flock typically mean decent people coming together and trying to help their community. We should not forget that part. The issue for me is the top, that bunch in Rome. They should really try and join modern life. But that's a personal opinion that warrants zero response. From anybody. Sadly the church is in the news (just like the Boy Scouts) as more crap comes out. Germans left in droves when that scandal broke. That's when the German church mentioned that nobody NOT paying church taxes should be allowed a burial in cemetery etc. Now that was really helpful to get more people coming back. Hit where it hurts: money.

Sorry, but I am still truly ticked off about that response from the church leadership over there. Seems to have gotten full approval from Rome on that one.

luvithere — January 20, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now to change topics to really interesting things...

http://rt.com/business/news/cayman-islands-companies-scrutiny-260/

Hope this link shows. No idea how to insert one. The estimates of what cash is hidden by US companies alone is staggering. Would make a nice big fat dent in deficit if we were to get the taxes for a change.

luvithere — January 20, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


i've read all the posts griping about various 'evils' of the catholic church,as well as other 'religious leaders'.

so, what are you going to to about it? you can sit on the sidelines, bitching, or you can enter the struggle to correct these religious failures. so, which are you going to do? sit on the sidelines bitching, or work to make it right?

DeeLittle — January 20, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh Dee, sadly there isn't a darn thing WE can do about it. Things in any religion have to be changed from the top down. Maybe their god can do something, if he really exists.

Also, I don't really care if they self destruct.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 20, 2013 at 8:18 a.m.

I too have been following Mr. Dean's writes and what he has had to say. Of course those in complete favor of LRT and the current crossing plan will disregard what he has to say. It took someone recently elected AND re-elected who is on committees which oversee the transportation funding...who opened HER eyes and ears and listened to what the people were saying and took our vote to deny LRT funding for C-Tran seriously.

Maybe something Robert Dean had said has sparked a nerve with the powers that be...riling some up and awakening others.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.

We can only hope, Gold, we can only hope. This whole undertaking, the money already spent, with zero to show, and the total disregard for what we, the locals, have to say, boggles the mind, doesn't it?

The fact that we have just two bridges connecting us south and north also boggles the mind, in my opinion. That one artery goes through a congested large city is further mind boggling. If this is such a major artery, why not go start THINKING what changes we really need? LRT from PDX to Vancouver-nowhere most certainly does nothing, except add money to certain coffers.

luvithere — January 20, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.

Growing up with a friend that was forced to go to Catholic school which I find hard to believe since it's not uncommon for any young child of 5 or 6 (or even older) to feel as if they were forced to go to any school...is different than actually attending it yourself. That is for the parents to decide, not the children. BTW, I attended Catholic Parochial School and thoroughly enjoyed my teachers...the nuns - sweet, understanding and had a heart of gold...and their patience!!! Oh, let me tell you about patience. Sister Julia, she was an angel in her own rights. So was Sister Febilia as well as the others whose names I cannot recall at the top of my head at this time. Sister Julia let each and every one of us children know we were special. And the priest that was at our church...so gentle...so kind...always lending an ear for anybody who needed him. He was a frequent visitor to our home and our family felt a certain need to do our part for the church as well...with no strings attached. That is how our church worked...and we'd visit other local Catholic churches...all with good memories.

And the baptisms and weddings...traditional and beautiful...well worth the time to experience and remember!!!

To this day when I walk into a Catholic Church...I feel at peace. When I visit the Grotto in Northeast Portland...I am humbled and I leave the Grotto feeling even better spiritually than I did when I entered.

As manthou has mentioned in the past...I also have Greek relatives and share in times at the local Greek Orthodox Church as well. I too am fortunate to experience yet another religion much like the Catholic faith...Greek Orthodox...another faith which like the Catholic Church, warms my heart as I pass through the doors, experiencing what the church has to offer...and I leave the church feeling the same as I do with the Catholic Church.

When I was in high school, I attended a class which we visited churches of all faiths, including a Buddhist Temple...such beauty and peace...and again...

I left feeling even more at peace than I did when I entered the facility.

I guess if you don't understand the true meaning of faith, you will never know what it's like spiritually, hawkeye. I accept your thoughts about not wanting to return to a Catholic Church. That is your choice and I respect that...but to condemn the church and those of us who DO choose to enter the the Catholic Church or any other church for that matter...those of us who hold to our faith and our religious beliefs and for you to condemn an entire religious entity because of what you are told by others rather than experiencing it yourself and I mean more than just a few random visits...

What makes such prejudice any different than the prejudice of those who attempt to suppress the rights to freedom of expression or religious freedom???

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 20, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.

It takes more than hope. It takes action, although hope plays a generous roll in dealing with the crossing. If you look at the layout of Portland and Vancouver/Clark County, there's not many alternatives which would alleviate the problem, luv. Instead, about all that could be done is reducing the congestion to the current bridge with an alternate route west of I-5 to Hwy 30, relocating and reducing the number of on/off ramps to a more efficient design. The third bridge on the east side recommended by Commissioner David Madore would be beneficial only to freight transit that hits I-84 to Idaho which in my opinion, is not a priority at this time. I also believe a replacement of the green dinosaurs is beneficial for river traffic...but only as a single deck without light rail. Height adjustments wouldn't even be in question. Then again...I might change my mind, given the cost effectiveness of bridge replacement altogether which I've heard is billions less than the current design IF they removed light rail because of the rights of way for light rail, eminent domain issues, reducing to one deck, et-cetera, et-cetera.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:18 p.m

So exactly where did I "condemn" your big powerful, rich, oppressive, controlling, blind, old world, behind the times church?

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like the team of Atlanta Falcons felt the seismic enthusiasm of 49ers fans today! Talk about a nail biter!!! Good game all around. Hope Matt Ryan of the Falcons isn't too shaken up with a possible shoulder injury. He gave it his all in this game for sure. It's good to see players actually playing a football game as it should be played rather than one filled with only field goals made in order to score. A rare play today.

Go Niners!!!

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*definition of "condemn"*

*Express complete disapproval of...*

Hawk...if you can't understand what it is you write now without consideration of others, you'll never understand.

goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 20, 2013 at 4:49 p.m

So what you are saying is I'm not entitled to MY opinion while you are free to blab yours all over this page?

Kiss My Rosy Red

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Hey, you guys want to hear something REALLY FUNNY???***

David Hedrick (remember him? The guy that tried to run for Representative that got busted for domestic abuse a few years ago? The guy that went off on Brian Baird at a town hall? ) Anyway, he sent me a "friend request" on FB today. Soooooooooo funny.

I suspect he's making another run for office but he ain't getting my vote.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Are we taking this a little too far? ***

A 5-year-old girl was suspended from school earlier this week after she made what the school called a "terrorist threat."

Her weapon of choice? A small, Hello Kitty automatic bubble blower.

The kindergartner, who attends Mount Carmel Area Elementary School in Pennsylvania, caught administrators' attention after suggesting she and a classmate should shoot each other with bubbles.

"I think people know how harmless a bubble is. It doesn't hurt," said Robin Ficker, an attorney for the girl's family. According to Ficker, the girl, whose identity has not been released, didn't even have the bubble gun toy with her at school.

The kindergartner was ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation during her 10-day suspension, which was later reduced to two days. The evaluation deemed the girl normal and not a threat to others, Ficker said.

The girl's family is considering a lawsuit against the school to get the blemish - all because of bubbles - off their daughter's record.

"The mother has tried to get the girl in another school since this time, and they won't take the little girl because of this mark on her record," Ficker said.

The suspension comes one month after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, which has created a heightened sense of alert at schools across the country.

The Mount Carmel Area School District told ABC News, "We are confident that much of the information supplied to the media may not be consistent with the facts… The Mount Carmel Area School District takes the well-being and safety of students and staff very seriously."

ABC News' Gio Benitez contributed to this report.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk @ 7:30- Next they'll be wanting to ban 10 bubble clips and air piercing bubbles. That damn Obama!

---

Michele looks great!

Hey guys! Don't forget to watch the inauguration tomorrow!

I'll try and remind everyone!

Just a thought. Instead of the ceremonious laying on of hands with the bible as Obama wants when being sworn in, maybe Obama should touch something that represents a broader swath of America. Like...

The Andy Griffith Show Seasons 1-5 on DVD

A 52" Plasma

Heather Locklear.

etc.

**Obama On Michelle's Bangs: 'She Always Looks Good'**

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama has rendered his opinion on what he said is the most significant event of inaugural weekend: his wife's new haircut.

Said Obama: "I love her bangs. She looks good. She always looks good."

First lady Michelle Obama unveiled the new "do" in a White House photo released last Thursday, her 49th birthday.

And it has been the talk of the town - and the airwaves and social media - ever since.

Obama made the comments Sunday night at a reception in Washington, where he thanked his many donors for their support.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/20/obama-michelle-bangs_n_2517782.html

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 11:10 p.m.

I saw her at the "home" inauguration and thought she looked GREAT. Even my Wife said she looked good. I like that she has the guts to do something like that. Good for her.

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.

"The guy that tried to run for Representative that got busted for domestic abuse a few years ago"

I think the term should be acquitted of domestic abuse.

Funny, if he was a democrat I doubt you would have mentioned the false charges brought against him.

frobert — January 20, 2013 at 11:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I also find it amusing that Hawkeye and Nail will mention every republican state rep that gets charged with speeding but fail to mention felony convictions against democrats like Edwards and Jackson Jr.

frobert — January 20, 2013 at 11:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Funny, if he was a democrat I doubt you would have mentioned the false charges brought against him.*

frobert — January 20, 2013 at 11:42 p.m.

Quintessential strawbert

I also find it amusing **[***if you can't support your charge with data or evidence, experiencing this type of emotion induced fantasy might be cause for concern***]** that Hawkeye and Nail will mention every republican state rep that gets charged with speeding.. **[***please support your charge with data or evidence. If unable to do so then ingest a strong laxative and be sure and keep hydrated*.**]**

I read an article earlier and haven't posted it yet about elected Dem on Dem crime back in Vegas. You took all the fun out of it.

Chin up. Keep posting and believing frobro, maybe some day you'll sway the 90% + of Americans who consider most of your views idiotic, irresponsible and destructive, and change their minds.

Till then, appreciate the workings of government and stop supporting those that seek to destroy it.

And while you're at it, bone up a bit on our constitution.

That's not a command btw, just a suggestion, lest I be accused of being some sort of aggressive dictator...

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 12:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frolo- Sorry about the bold print as it mostly wasn't intended.

Lest I be accused of being a hateful leftist bold printererer..er.

How's Gen?

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 12:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 11:10 p.m.

*I saw her at the "home" inauguration and thought she looked GREAT. Even my Wife said she looked good. I like that she has the guts to do something like that. Good for her.*

hawkeye — January 20, 2013 at 11:33 p.m.

Gorgeous! And she carries herself with such grace and dignity, rivaled only by her genuine down to earth persona. What a wonderful First Family we have in the White House!

And to watch them grow as a family for another four years......

....because Barack Obama will be inaugurated tomorrow as our nations 45th President!

Just think...if the minority of voters had their way Romney would be up there tomorrow. The Pearl of Great Vice. Thank whatever God for not allowing that one. Assuming this was God actionable or whatever.

Michele's my favorite First Lady. It used to be Laura Bush. The Hill as a First Lady was cool, but she was always under attack from radical right wingers like the corrupted Gingrich, or defending Bill from false accusations about his private life. :)

What a great story Hillary became! A great lady and I hope I get the chance to vote her in as Prez.

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 1:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""So what you are saying is I'm not entitled to MY opinion while you are free to blab yours all over this page?*

*Kiss My Rosy Red"""*

Honestly, hawkeye...I'm not surprised in your reaction and no, that isn't what I am saying and you know it. Makes for great drama, though. Blab my opinion, eh...

That's what it's called these days? Yeah, like I'm the only one who posts a lot here on the forum...nice one.

hawkeye...I was merely explaining that I have experienced first hand what it is like to grow up in a Catholic household, attending parochial school and Catholic Church and holding to my faith, thanks to the teachings of the church I attended and the faith my parents held dear to their heart in guiding us as well. And hawk...my faith isn't labeled "Catholic" these days...I don't *have to* attend a church entity to express my faith...but what it was the church taught me in my growing years and what I've held in my heart, guiding my own children to do what is right and just and to remind myself to find the good in all. I choose the Catholic faith as my religion of choice. I'm not forced into it and I'm certainly not trying to force anybody into Catholocism...just sharing my point of view.

Nobody's perfect. People have flaws and I am no exception. There's always someone on this forum who on occasion, love to point out my flaws, but that's okay. It makes life interesting.

You can call it like it is as you see it...any time your heart desires, hawk. I'm not verbally attacking you and telling you to *kiss my rosy red* as you stated...and I'm not stopping you from sharing your views...just calling it as I see it...from my perspective.

Your level of maturity exemplified by your off-colored suggestion leads one to question the validity of your posts though, hawk. Just sayin'.

goldenoldie — January 21, 2013 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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