Open forum, Jan 21-27

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President Obama's **2nd** Inauguration festivities currently happening!

History in the making!

Happy Martin Luther King Day!

Happy Monday!

Happy Four more years!

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**An Idle Observation**

Last Saturday a LttE from Sandra Bennett (poor woman) was published. The Columbo titled it *Dangers of pot are real*.http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

The following Sunday (that would be yesterday) a LttE from one Frank Hoetker was published. The 'C' chose to title it *Pot is a gateway drug*. No linky there because none of Sunday's LttE were published.

I went back and looked at the 13th (Sunday before last). Those were published. I wonder if someone fell asleep at the wheel.

I read the dead tree version of the paper every morning. With those items that interest me I'll pop into the e-version and check out the comments. Sandra is taking a bit of a beating. It looks like Frank got a bye.

I'm debating if I'll pull together my own LttE rebutting the two above. The 200 word restriction is a bit of a pain ;^)

Drift — January 21, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWoN-...

Somebody's been posting about this gerrymandering stuff. It can stop if we refuse to accept it as rules can be changed, on both sides of the aisle.

Look for "Morning Joe" to make a bid for Presidency next election. He's seating himself squarely in the camp of so called Republican moderation, the only camp to be in if republicans are ever to win another national election, and his ego is screaming RUN!

I'd love to see Joe as a viable candidate. It would mean republicans have moved more to the center of red, rather than further the ugly strain of extremist idiocy that has corrupted and slowed government since 2010.

Elections have consequences.

Let's turn the House Blue ASAP and hope one day we can have a reasonably functioning government once again. Till then...

Happy Inauguration!

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I see a section of my post might be confusing. To clarify:

Frank's LttE was published in the dead tree, but not e-version. There were LttE in Sunday's paper, but none on the Columbo website. It jumps from the 19th to the 21st.

Drift — January 21, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 8:11 a.m.

Happy happy happy. Nails, from the little bit of news I bothered to watch, you've left out the most important thing - Michelle's new hairdo.

roger — January 21, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift - The hard copy also had an LTTE from someone who said people opposed to the CRC wanted us to be like East Germany (something like that). Sadly, it didn't get to the web version either - that would have led to some entertaining comments. (I was all set to argue that Portland is more like East Germany was.)

roger — January 21, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- you've left out the most important thing - Michelle's new hairdo.

Please see..

nailingit — January 20, 2013 at 11:10 p.m.

:)

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Happy Happy Happy!!!

Now if the House can get their "stuff" together and play nice with the second term Pres.

Anyway, Roger, we discussed the beautiful hairdo of the First Lady, you must have been watching football.

Good Monday to you all.

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Isolationist attitude revealed**

"Opponents of light rail on the Columbia River Crossing say they want the light rail issue put to a vote.

"It appears they hope voters, as they do, wistfully remember when Vancouver was the East Berlin of Portland - just a nice, quiet little economic and cultural backwater."

Ward Upson

That one, Roger? I'm not sure Ward's analogy makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. Actually, in a sense, it's a bit contradictory.

Drift — January 21, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JloUCgbw_fo

Great speech! Make us proud Obama! Institute policies protecting the middle class! Stop the wars! Limit drone strikes! Stand up for collective bargaining. Trumpet equal rights for all!
Put your boot heel to the chins of oppositional thuggery when needed, rather than bend to rightest extremist factions who believe government is evil, while they have the "audacity" to cite our constitution as a source of validation and purpose.

**FORWARD!**

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouB7dtNcSkA

Kelly Clarkson doing America proud on the world stage!

Maybe the best rendition ever. I found it difficult to keep my composure.

Wow

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Absolutely an inspiration...the (re)inauguration of the President and Vice President of OUR United States. It left me with the gut feeling that yes...our nation is about to become better than it has been in years leading up to this eventful day.

Everybody must understand that in order for our nation to work together as one, that not one idea is perfect. Not one plan works unless all parties can find neutral ground for which to meet that agreement. It can be done and hopefully, this is the year that it begins.

goldenoldie — January 21, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One question sitting in my mind right now...to those who don't believe that God exists, then why do the President and the Vice President swear upon the oath of office by placing their hand on the Holy Bible and recite *"So Help Me God?"*

A very inspirational speech was made on August 28, 1963 by the very man whom we celebrate his life today.. It is because of his diligence in creating equality that today, we stand proud as a nation, supporting our president of the United States of America. That man...the REVEREND Martin Luther King, Jr.

goldenoldie — January 21, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-DSFr...

It doesn't get any better. What a great day for democracy!

Sometimes we need a little pomp & circumstance to elevate our thinking.

I wanna stay in the clouds!

Let's do this thing and fix America's problems. The first step is to support this duly elected President, and give him a chance to implement his policies and vision for America.

After all, it's what this democracy is predicated on.

The will of the people, and the people have spoken. Overwhelmingly.

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, anybody seen those commercials from "WesternSky" ? I checked them out and it's run by an Indian that belongs to the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. Mind you, it's NOT the tribe itself but a member that lives on the Res.

They will loan you $10k tomorrow for the reasonable price of 84 payments of $743.49. Actually, the loan is for $9,925 because they charge you a loan fee of $75. So when you are done paying them, your total payoff will be $62,528.16.

Does the word "loanshark" sound familiar?

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Does the word "loanshark" sound familiar?

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.

What a deal! Soprano style!

---

All roads lead to Vegas..

International incident! Look for this story to have legs. No extradition treaty and he made bail!
Our wonderful allies in Saudi land who managed to deliver 15 for 19 in the 9/11 attacks stink up Vegas.

Stick him in Carson City. He'll never make it out.

Sharia Maria meet Bubba & friends.

But he'll make bail and I'm sure never be seen again.

Recall the judge and exile him/her to Saudi land.

**Mazen Alotaibi, Saudi Air Force Sergeant, Held On $1.25 Million Bond For Alleged Las Vegas Rape**

*Mazen Alotaibi allegedly raped a 13-year-old boy in a Las Vegas hotel room on New Year's Eve.*

LAS VEGAS -- Despite a defense attorney's complaints, a judge in Nevada set bail at $1.22 million Friday for a Saudi Arabia air force sergeant jailed since New Year's Eve after he was accused of pulling a 13-year-old boy into a Las Vegas Strip hotel room and raping him.

Defense attorney Don Chairez said his client, Mazen Alotaibi, "probably" could post what Chairez called the "extraordinarily high" bail, surrender his diplomatic passport and be freed pending an evidentiary hearing Jan. 31.

But Chairez said he'd recommend to Saudi authorities the 23-year-old aircraft mechanic remain in jail until a Jan. 31 evidentiary hearing. The money would be better spent investigating the charges and preparing Alotaibi's defense, Chairez said.

He alleged outside court that his client was treated unfairly by police because he was too drunk on cognac Dec. 31 to surrender his right to have a lawyer present during questioning.

"Somebody who's under the influence cannot give up his right to an attorney," Chairez contended.

Alotaibi stood in court with an Arabic language interpreter and said nothing while Las Vegas Justice of the Peace Bill Kephart called the allegations against him "appalling." The judge noted that if Alotaibi fled the country, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia do not have an extradition treaty to bring him back.

"I don't know the truth of either side here," said Kephart, who will make the decision whether to move the case to state court if there is enough evidence for trial. The judge noted that Alotaibi faces "substantial consequences" if convicted.

Alotaibi is accused of forcing the boy into a Circus Circus hotel room where as many as four other Saudi officers smoked cigarettes or marijuana the morning before a New Year's Eve fireworks celebration on the Las Vegas Strip.

Prosecutor Mary Kay Holthus said Alotaibi acknowledged during police questioning that he had sex with the boy, who Holthus said was accosted by Alotaibi while headed to meet a friend and go to a doughnut shop at 7:30 a.m.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/mazen-alotaibi-saudi-air-force-las-vegas-rape_n_2519706.html?ref=topbar

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 10:58 a.m

You know the old penalties for robbery was to cut off the hand of the offender, well......

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 10:58 a.m

You know the old penalties for robbery was to cut off the hand of the offender, well......

BTW, is anybody else having trouble posting today?

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Western Sky. Maybe they're getting revenge for our land grab?

Lone Watie: Im an Indian, all right; but here in the nation they call us the "civilized tribe". They call us "civilized" because we're easy to sneak up on. White men have been sneaking up on us for years.

roger — January 21, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*BTW, is anybody else having trouble posting today?*

hawkeye — January 21, 2013 at 11:16 a.m.

A couple of times hawkeye, and a few website maintenance problem notification thingy's also.

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Trouble posting, trouble surfing, extremely slow internet here.
Watched the pomp myself (my daughter is there live with front row tickets so we watched for her; she is a student in DC). I am not a poetry person but that poem was inspiring.

Gold, I bite (against my better judgement :). I was saying to spouse that tradition sure lives on during this day. I cannot imagine what would be spouted on net and everywhere if they would have stuck to a secular ceremony. From birthers to rw fanatics,gasp, now he adds even more to his crimes. Makes me wonder how many attendees are actually of a different religion, or of no religion. Still politically not correct to admit. But enough of that.

I was extremely happy to hear the inclusionary tone throughout, mentioning gays, immigrants, color, etc. That's historic and I am proud.

Then we watched them sit down to an expensive, hi-cal lunch, courtesy of us, the tax payers. Ah well. Glad to see the Clintons and the Carters.

And yea: very glad the other guy did not win.

luvithere — January 21, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*(my daughter is there live with front row tickets so we watched for her; she is a student in DC)*

luvithere — January 21, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

Absolutely cool!!

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It was, Nail, it was very cool. Knowing she is somewhere right there, live, made it extra special. That our candidate was chosen again, was naturally the best part.
And I am still waiting for a shot of Boehner lookign at least somewhat not like he would break out in tears any minute. What a sour puss. Maybe the hi-cal lunch helped him a bit.

luvithere — January 21, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere...

How sweet! Your daughter was able to experience something most never get to see in person in their lifetime!!! I'd bet ya that she would talk a thousand miles a second all about it with all the excitement of the day.

Regarding the day...President Obama also received religious blessings prior to the inauguration ceremony with morning mass. He also attends church regularly and isn't afraid to use God in a sentence. Loved his address!!!

Oh well, enough of that. It was a glorious ceremony for sure!!! I'm glad your daughter was able to see it first hand.

goldenoldie — January 21, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Had a few problems earlier with error messages but they cleared up after a few minutes. No problems since.

goldenoldie — January 21, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gold, she was very excited and I am sure will keep her ticket as a nice memento. Tonight is the university's inaugural ball and I am sure she will have a grand time there. Was lucky to get ticket as they sold out in one hour.
Sigh, better and more exciting life than old Mom for sure today.

luvithere — January 21, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift - Yep, that was the one. I guess if believing that we are in a different state and consequently not part of Portland makes me an isolationist, then so be it. But being criticized for wanting to vote on light rail, especially when state law says I'm supposed to, and then compared to East Berlin, kind of lost me.

roger — January 21, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails and Hawkeye - Yes, I had my priorities last night and managed to miss most of the pre-inaugural festivities. Channel surfing during halftime turned up a few comments on the oh so lovely bangs (actually not bad looking, though I was wondering if it was real or a wig). Also Lady Michelle giving a little speech thanking the Bidens for being such wonderful teammates. For some reason it came across as strained - more because of the nonverbals from the Bidens than anything being said.

But now on to important stuff. GO RAVENS!!! Beat those nasty Niners. (If my Steelers aren't there, I'm rooting for the team from their division.)

roger — January 21, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gee, guess what? The FDIC "hit" the Bank of Clark Co with approx 10% of their assets. Wouldn't it be nice to be so wealthy as to own a freakin' bank and write down your debt for about a dime on the dollar? Perhaps given several years to do it would help. After all, these guys are among the "job creators" that need some kinda worshipping. This is BS folks, and as these types continue to be be TOTALLY unproductive in a economic situation-create a job or two, maybe even spur development-we still afford them tax breaks, subsidies, whatever they need. While they continue to plunder the economy (and us) let's throw them a few more $$$, maybe we'll get a job or two cleaning their house or working in their yard. But, in no way, can we allow their investments to go south on them-we must protect our rich folks. Without them, there'd be no us. Right?

mrd — January 21, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It was so easy for Obama's campaign to characterize Romney as nothing more than a out of touch self motivated dispassionate insular business man.

Because it's who he appears to be.

This was the best republicans could produce. Romney/Ryan.

Previous election it was McCain/Palin.

Who Republicans will trust as the Party standard bearer only time will tell.

But as of now the current standard bearer flaunts his disrespect for a great American tradition, as will as lending a narcissistic touch to this already troubled republican party narrative.

And they have only themselves to blame.

**Where in the world is Mitt Romney? (Hint: Not in D.C.)**

Mitt Romney has kept an aggressively low profile since getting blown out by President Obama on Nov. 6. So perhaps it’s no surprise that he didn’t travel to Washington, D.C. for today’s inauguration. But the failed GOP presidential nominee reportedly didn’t even watch the event on TV.

Romney put out word through people close to him that he wasn’t going to watch President Obama take his ceremonial oath on Monday. Instead, he planned to be at one of his homes in La Jolla, Calif.

A Romney aide told NBC the former Massachusetts governor and his wife Ann have “no big plans.” And when asked if he’d watch the ceremonies, the aide said, “doubtful.”

Romney’s absence makes him the first losing candidate not to attend since 1989, when Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis didn’t attend George H.W. Bush’s swearing in. Instead, he stayed in his home state, watched on TV, and ate a tuna sandwich.

read more @ http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/21/where-in-the-world-is-mitt-romney-hint-not-in-d-c/

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A great take on today's speech. I can hear the "collectivist" rhetoric from RW extremist ideologues already! :))

**Brian Balogh: Obama reminds us why he's a progressive**

*Inaugural addresses, especially the second time around, are not supposed to matter.*

Brian Balogh

This one did. That's because future historians will mark it as the moment that Obama explained why he is a progressive.

The programs that Obama called for were characteristically liberal: reaffirming the social safety net, equal pay for women, etc. Nothing new here -- just the Obama classic.

What differed this time, and what this moment was made for (to twist the president's own words) was articulating the progressive rationale for these programmatic ends. "Preserving our individual freedoms ultimately requires collective action," Obama proudly told the nation.

Compare this with the rationale that Obama offered to the American people at his State of the Union less than a year ago. Saving the heroic mission to capture Osama bin Laden for the grand finale, the president insisted that the "mission only succeeded because" each brave warrior knew that "there's somebody behind you, watching your back." The pre-election Obama, still seeking the middle ideologically, deployed the lowest common denominator of Cold War liberalism -- collective security -- as the rationale for a far more ambitious social program.

His second election behind him, Obama linked his fate and the nation's to a rationale that propelled tens of millions of Americans into the middle class. By making collective action explicit, Obama yoked a century-old progressive agenda to the nation's founding documents and its past history. "Now, more than ever, we must do these things together, as one nation, and one people." To achieve America's lofty goals of "life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" will require back watching, backslapping and no shortage of back-scratching as well.

But today, Obama left that for back benchers. He stated the "c" word -- collective -- loudly and proudly. And the nation will be better off for his candor.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/21/opinion/opinion-inauguration-roundup/index.html?hpt=po_c2

http://www.virginia.edu/history/user/9

nailingit — January 21, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Back in my college days I used to speak out against the Vietnam War. However, I drew the line at and refused to quietly accept calling our troops baby killers, etc - that was my own family and friends they were talking about. This refusal to go along with "the plan" didn't sit well with the so-called movement leaders, and I was slowly marginalized/ostracized. (No problem - there were other forums which made it possible to return the favor to those sanctimonious hypocrites.)

I see this same attitude prevalent on the collectivism of today's liberal Democrat movement - it's either get on the bus and go with the party line, or you're not on the team. No room for dissent. (The conservative Repubs aren't any better, mind you, but at least they have the decency to rip each others' throats out.)

roger — January 22, 2013 at 5:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Out of curiosity, how does one keep an aggressively low profile? Telling your friends you are going to the inauguration?

And as for the traditions, go back and read that article where Ryan was booed by the crowd when he was leaving to go to the event. Sounds to me like the Dem supporters are just as ill-mannered as the Repubs are being painted in your article.

Also, I'm thinking Romney's days as the standard bearer were short-lived and he's already been informed his services are no longer required. Time to start looking at Christy, Rubio, Jindal, just maybe Huntsman, and a couple of others. The Repubs definitely have to come up with a coherent mainstream approach to governing if they're to stay relevant - the wackos we saw this cycle aren't going to get them anywhere.

roger — January 22, 2013 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**The New Theories of Moral Sentiments:
The economic historian who is bringing love, faith, courage and virtue back into her discipline.**

By Dalibor Rohac

In 2006, Ms. McCloskey published a 600-page book, "Bourgeois Virtues: Ethics for an Age of Commerce." In a meticulously documented volume, drawing from a range of philosophical traditions, she asks whether one can participate fully in the modern capitalist economy and still be a moral person. Ms. McCloskey is a free marketeer and used to be a close personal friend of Milton Friedman, as she eagerly points out. Her answer is therefore an emphatic yes. It would be ill-advised, she thinks, to claim that profit-seeking makes one inherently corrupt, especially if it is balanced by other virtues.

Four years later, she completed a 600-page sequel, "Bourgeois Dignity: Why Economics Can't Explain the Modern World." "I've forgotten how to write short books," she says apologetically, adding that she would like both to be part of a four-volume series on the bourgeois era.

Unlike "Bourgeois Virtues," "Bourgeois Dignity" makes a historical argument. Modern economic growth, she claims, is a result of an ideological and rhetorical transformation. In the Elizabethan period, business was sneered upon. In Shakespeare's plays, the only major bourgeois character, Antonio, is a fool because of his affection for Bassanio. There is no need to dwell on how the other bourgeois character in "The Merchant of Venice," Shylock, is characterized.

She contrasts this with attitudes 200 years later. When James Watt died in 1819, a statue of him was erected in Westminster Abbey and later moved to St. Paul's cathedral. This would have been unthinkable two centuries earlier. In Ms. McCloskey's view, this shift in perceptions was central to the economic take-off of the West. "A bourgeois deal was agreed upon," she says. "You let me engage in innovation and creative destruction, and I will make you rich." A commercial class that was not ostracized or sneered at was thus able to activate the engine of modern economic growth. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577180870680679332.html

mr_basil_seal — January 22, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**'Limits to Growth' Author Dennis Meadows 'Humanity Is Still on the Way to Destroying Itself'**

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Professor Meadows, 40 years ago you published "The Limits to Growth" together with your wife and colleagues, a book that made you the intellectual father of the environmental movement. The core message of the book remains valid today: Humanity is ruthlessly exploiting global resources and is on the way to destroying itself. Do you believe that the ultimate collapse of our economic system can still be avoided?

Meadows: The problem that faces our societies is that we have developed industries and policies that were appropriate at a certain moment, but now start to reduce human welfare, like for example the oil and car industry. Their political and financial power is so great and they can prevent change. It is my expectation that they will succeed. This means that we are going to evolve through crisis, not through proactive change.

http://theautomaticearth.com/Earth/quote-of-the-year-and-the-next.html

mr_basil_seal — January 22, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Rethinking adaptation for a 4°C world**
Mark Stafford Smith, Lisa Horrocks, Alex Harvey and Clive Hamilton

With weakening prospects of prompt mitigation, it is increasingly likely that the world will experience 4°C and more of global warming. In such a world, adaptation decisions that have long lead times or that have implications playing out over many decades become more uncertain and complex. Adapting to global warming of 4°C cannot be seen as a mere extrapolation of adaptation to 2°C; it will be a more substantial, continuous and transformative process. However, a variety of psychological, social and institutional barriers to adaptation are exacerbated by uncertainty and long timeframes, with the danger of immobilizing decision-makers. In this paper, we show how complexity and uncertainty can be reduced by a systematic approach to categorizing the interactions between decision lifetime, the type of uncertainty in the relevant drivers of change and the nature of adaptation response options. We synthesize a number of issues previously raised in the literature to link the categories of interactions to a variety of risk-management strategies and tactics. Such application could help to break down some barriers to adaptation and both simplify and better target adaptation decision-making. The approach needs to be tested and adopted rapidly.
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934/196.full

This is one article from the Theme Issue 'Four degrees and beyond: the potential for a global temperature increase of four degrees and its implications' http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934.toc

mr_basil_seal — January 22, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 22, 2013 at 6:48 a.m.

I'm not sure you can include Christy in that group. He seems to be more of a RINO judging by his attitude towards our current Pres. It seems he is smarter than your average Republican't as he knows which side his bread is buttered on.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 3:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Today's Democratic party stands for equal rights, less war, comprehensive immigration reform, voting rights, investment in America and Choice.

Today's Republicans party stands for discrimination, warmongering, electric fences, voter suppression, austerity and criminalizing abortion.

No room for dissent? The last four years progressives have stood on the sidelines and watched this President capitulate to Republican leaders in order to "compromise", while incidents like the wildly popular (EX) Republican leader Allen West declaring 78-80 members of the Democratic wing of Congress are members of the Communist Party, while GOP leadership kept their "collective" mouths shut.

Are we supposed to "compromise" on these terms? Maybe Obama should concoct a phony birth certificate to placate a large faction of Republicans who believes his presidency is illegitimate.

Goalposts stay the same in football, not so in politics.

The differences are stark, the rhetoric is absurd and the choices are plain.

This is politics. You start from one end negotiating to reach a middle and it's exactly what Obama is doing.

And he's kicking off negotiations the right way!

Todays' Republican leadership repeatedly display a disdain for democracy and our political process and what furthers it.

Why just today...

**Virginia Redistricting 2013: State GOP Rams Bill Through Senate In Absence Of Democratic Sen. Henry Marsh**

Virginia Democrats are raising hell after Republicans unexpectedly rammed a controversial redistricting bill through the state Senate on Monday, capitalizing on the absence of a Democratic lawmaker and civil rights leader who was in Washington for President Barack Obama's second inauguration.

The Virginia Senate is currently split evenly between Democrats and Republicans, each occupying 20 seats in the legislative body. Democratic State Sen. Harry Marsh's absence paved the way for passage of the previously unannounced legislation by a count of 20 votes to 19.

"The new redistricting map revises the districts created under the 2011 map," writes Talking Points Memo's Evan McMorris-Santoro, "and would take effect before the next state Senate elections in Virginia and would redraw district lines to maximize the number of safe GOP seats."

roger.........this kind of garbage isn't taking place on the left.

"Compromise" shouldn't involve selling out American ideals in order to further ideology that is not only outdated, but twisted to it's core.

Compromise...republicans have not only turned this into a dirty word, but a definiton not worthy of the American electorate.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 4:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone;

I sent John Hill a message about the '503 service unavailable' that pops up, and messaged it's really slow to connect with forum.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 4:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On a side note, damn it's been cold! Looking forward to spring.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 4:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 4:04 a.m.

About what the Virginia legislature just pulled off, don't they have to send it to the House and then have it signed by the Governor? Wouldn't that possibly put a roadblock in the way? Or is the House and Gov. both Republican't as well?

BTW, thanks for sending the note to John Hill. I'm having the same problem.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 4:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On a side note, damn it's been cold! Looking forward to spring.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 4:33 a.m

Tomorrow should be better, there is a low pressure system coming in, wetter but warmer. I really hate it when the East wind blows, it dries out everything including my skin.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 4:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- It's a done deal and going to court.

Voting rights, abortion access, collective bargaining etc., all a prime example of what's happening across America with Republican controlled states choosing thuggery as methodology to push a partisan social agenda. I think in part explains why Romney couldn't carry swing states as he expected to.

BREAKING NEWS! ANOTHER DAMN COLLEGE SHOOTING!:(((((

Multiple shooters...multiple victims.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 5:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interview with eye witness stated multiple shooters anyway.

f n a. What a bummer.

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 5:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**At Least Three People Were Shot At A College Campus In Texas**

At least three people, including the suspected gunman, have been shot at Lone Star College in Houston, Texas, KHOU is reporting.

The TV station tweeted at 2:09 p.m. EST that more shots had been fired near the school's cafeteria as police searched for an additional gunman.

The possible second suspect is described as an 18-to-20-year-old black man who's wearing a red shirt and Falcons cap, Click2Houston is reporting.

The shooting was first reported around 12:30 p.m. local time.

The North Harris Campus of Lone Star College is home to more than 10,000 students, according to CNN.

One student told ABC 13 Eyewitness News that she heard five shots.

Two injured victims have been taken to Ben Taub Hospital. While officials haven't released details about the injuries, ABC 13 is reporting two victims had "multiple gun shot wounds."
Both victims are conscious and have been taken into surgery, ABC 13 tweeted.
The campus, as well as nearby schools are on lockdown.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lone-star-college-shooting-2013-1#ixzz2IjdtarOD

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 5:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

*Put your boot heel to the chins of oppositional thuggery when needed, rather than bend to rightest extremist factions who believe government is evil, while they have the "audacity" to cite our constitution as a source of validation and purpose*.

I suppose you had your tablet in one hand and a fifth in the other as you were watching....This staement says allot about you and your thought process.. One can change the size of ones spots but those spots are still there...It's been this type of thinking that has made the left and the Presidents own presidency nothing more than a voice. With just over 50% approval rating thinking Obama is doing a good job speaks volumes for itself... His speach was again of hope and change .. I know these speaches are not supposed to have specifics in them.. But I guess many people just like to hear him speak... I'm not one of those... Once he starts speaking it's like one of those medicine man sales pitch going on.. I guess I just don't trust so I don't believe a word he says...

*roger- Today's Democratic party stands for equal rights, less war, comprehensive immigration reform, voting rights, investment in America and Choice.*

Great talking points nail but really no substance... We've been at War when he took office, still at war and with more troops now In Afganistan than ever....Libya, ....he has yet to put any Jobs bill in front of congress let alone the senate... That investment in America doesn't ring true with business people.... Thats the snake oil sales presentation....Oh yes the budget which we have yet to see one from the president ....Can't have a balanced budget without a budget.. raise the debt ceiling for what.. So he can spend more... ... The middle class is getting hit with tax increases and how about your healthcare.. Has anyone seen there healthcare costs rise sharply this year...

His next four years will be of a Lame Duck, he really has only two years to get anything done...I don't see anything that he can do that will make a real difference in the time he has.. Oh he could send a budget to congress, no on other hand he can't because he isn't done spending and taxing...

he should be spending most of his time on an Infrastructure Bill, that would bring jobs and grow our economy the fastest... But I forgot he isn't into creating jobs or growing the economy or cutting spending and taxes... I guess our next President can spend his or her next four years Blaming all of our mess On Obama... What a real Sham. Couldn't be less proud of our President...

vanwadreamer — January 22, 2013 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


After spending the last week in the hospital, I have no patience for those who makes statements such as below. By saying such, proves once again to me and others, they only know what the media spoon feeds them, not the truth. If you want the truth, try talking face to face with those that are opposite of you.

1. Repubs DO NOT stand for discrimination, we stand for what is injustice being pushed onto Americans, legal Americans. Such as an illegal's receiving benefits that they did not pay for.
2. No, we don't stand for warmongering. We stand for standing up for ourselves, not to be bullied, not to be told by other countries what we should or should not be.We all know turning the other cheek does not work.
3. No electric fence, just closed borders until our country no longer has a budget crisis.
4. No we don't suppress voters. It's mostly the Democrats and media feeding them bs by the shovel full.
5. Maybe if the Democrats did not tax and spend as much and lived within their means and no pay raises, maybe we would not be having to look at cutting services.
6. No we do not criminalize abortion, we just believe that life is sacred and needs to be protected.

*Today's Republicans party stands for discrimination, warmongering, electric fences, voter suppression, austerity and criminalizing abortion.*

January 22, 2013 at 4:04 a.m

ELISI — January 22, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnRU3...

**2 for 1!** :))

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Lone Star College website includes an extensive section on what to do in an active shooter situation. It reads in part:

If they do start shooting people, you need to make a choice: stay still and hope they do not shoot you, run for an exit while zigzagging, or attack the shooter.
If you chose to run, a zigzagging moving target is much harder to hit than a straight runner.
Playing dead may also be a consideration.
It is not a recommendation to attack the shooter, but remember that you have a choice to fight when there are no other options.
The last thing that the shooter will expect is to be attacked by you.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 22, 2013 at 6:29 a.m.

So spending a week in the hospital makes you cranky? Too bad, I thought you were supposed to get rest there. Hope you are better.

Vanwa, come on, it's really hard to take you serious when you misspell so many words.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI....

Sorry to hear you had to be in the hospital for what probably felt like a lifetime. I hope whatever it is, that you have improved and will feel better soon!!!

Never you mind about those whose life depends on riling up the masses with their one-track minds and misguided statements of ignorance. The truth is out there for everyone to see and that's all that matters. The problem is...some haven't the ability to open their minds, so they make assumptions which in the end...make them look downright silly...or make themselves look like an old curmudgeon. Silly word...curmudgeon.

Anyways, life's too short to let them get to ya!!! Get some well-needed rest and take care of you, ELISI!!! No need to fret. They'll still be here next time...and the next, and the next, and the next...8))

goldenoldie — January 22, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

you stuck with grammar patrol this week, hawk???

goldenoldie — January 22, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And conservatives whine that Obama is divisive. Four more years conservatives, the people have spoken. Let's pray Obama makes at least two appointments to the Supreme Court and really causes change!

**Ted Nugent Suggests He's Ready For Armed Revolt Against 'Evil, Dangerous' Obama (VIDEO)**

In his interview, Nugent went on to accuse Obama of having communist ties, suggesting that gun-owning Americans needed to do something to "fix" the fact that he was president.

"The president of the United States goes to the Vietnam Memorial Wall and pretends to honor 58,000 American heroes who died fighting communism and then he hires, appoints and associates with communists," Nugent said. "He pretends to pay honor to men who died fighting communism, and then he hangs out with, hires and appoints communists. He is an evil, dangerous man who hates America and hates freedom. And we need to fix this as soon as possible."

Nugent has been one of the most fiery voices in the pro-gun movement in the wake of the December mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in which 26 people, including 20 young children, were killed.

Earlier this month he called Obama's proposals to combat gun violence "psychotic" and "dangerously anti-American." He'd earlier predicted that gun owners would have a "Rosa Parks" moment in an effort to resist gun restrictions.

While Nugent's inflammatory rhetoric is indicative of a segment of gun owners who appear convinced that any gun control efforts are simply a precursor to a larger government gun-grab, **such a tone has also been adopted by more mainstream Republican lawmakers.
Over the weekend, the campaign of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) blasted out a frenzied fundraising email, telling supporters that they were "literally surrounded" by "gun-grabbers in the Senate" who were "coming for" their guns.**

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/22/ted-nugent-armed-revolt_n_2527608.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys might want to go read the article posted a couple of hours ago - we've got our own "obstructionist" Repubs at work here in Clark County!!! Commissioners Madore and Mielke cut off the $200,000 funding to the CREDC due to their support of light rail in the CRC project. They'll reinstate that funding if CREDC walks away from that support. The peanut gallery in the comment section is going full blast.

Yep - This whole thing is really heating up. Rep Jaime says get rid of LRT if we want federal dollars; a few in the State Senate are making it clear they're going to put a roadblock up to state funding approval; and now this. Mayor Tim is sputtering (over there in the comments) - complaining about bribery (actually, I think our Commissioners would be more appropriately accused of extortion, but ol' Mayor Tim just isn't as clever as he'd like us to think) and trying to pick a fight with Lew Waters and someone else who opined he probably knows something about bribery.

They really should have put this up to a vote, like the law says.

roger — January 22, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — January 22, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.

All I've got to say is Madore's got some grande' cajones to pull this one off with Mielke in his back pocket.

What do you think he would do if someone he was selling his widgets to did the same thing to him?

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk - I think Madore would throw an old-fashioned hissy-fit.

I just do not understand what motivates him. Power hungry ego? Yes, for sure. Completely naive? Yep.

If he is trying to shake up a few things, more power to him. But this - extortion. He burns so bright, he will burn out soon.

luvithere — January 22, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And what's the difference between this and Mayor Tim saying "screw the voters, I'll get the money from them some other way"?

And I keep going back to the Vancouver mayoral election. Councilman Leavitt, a member of the C-Tran Board and a couple of CRC planning committees, assured the voters that the project could be built without tolling, and that if tolls were imposed they would be in the $8 neighborhood. Mayor Pollard said Leavitt was full of crap - there would have to be tolls, but he would fight tooth and nail to have low tolls that wouldn't hurt us. Turns out old Royce was right - Timmy was full of it. I'd sure like to know the whole story with that one - no way Leavitt "didn't know" as he claimed.

Anyhow - I'm not exactly a fan of Madore, but he's got a long way to go before he catches up to that kid from Yakima when it comes to underhandedness. (In My Opinion.) And Madore is trying to save me my money (I think), while Leavitt is trying to take it.

roger — January 22, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Conservatives. It's what they do. It's how they do it.

They seem to be on a mission to lower standards of ethics and civility at every level of government.

You guys that voted in Madore got just what you paid for.

Don't think this hasn't spent a long time on the drawing board. For many people who sit on the fence for this project, something like this will kick them over to pro light rail.

Who wants to be associated with this stink?

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think Madore is WAY over his head and is trying to BS his way through by pulling crap like this. Mielke has been over his head for years and is just a follower. Stuart wants no part of it. (smart) The smarter one in this whole mess is Sean Guard who says that the CREDC has no interest in LRT. I think he's a straight shooter and someone (Madore) needs to pay attention to or be really embarrassed.

hawkeye — January 22, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**NBC/WSJ poll: Majority, for first time, want abortion to be legal**

As the 40th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision takes place on Tuesday, a majority of Americans – for the first time – believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

What’s more, seven in 10 respondents oppose Roe v. Wade being overturned, which is the highest percentage on this question since 1989.

“These are profound changes,” says Republican pollster Bill McInturff, who conducted this survey with Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart and his colleagues.

McInturff adds that the abortion-related events and rhetoric over the past year – which included controversial remarks on abortion and rape by two Republican Senate candidates, as well as a highly charged debate over contraception – helped shaped these changing poll numbers.

“The dialogue we have had in the last year has contributed … to inform and shift attitudes.”

Jan. 22, 1973: NBC's Garrick Utley and Betty Rollin report on the landmark decision by the Supreme Court on the issue of abortion.

The 1973 Roe v. Wade decision established a woman’s constitutional right to an abortion, at least in the first three months of pregnancy.

According to the poll, 54 percent of adults say that abortion should be legal either always or most of the time, while a combined 44 percent said it should be illegal – either with or without exceptions.

That’s the first time since this poll question was first asked in 2003 that a majority maintained that abortion should be legal. Previously (with just one exception in 2008), majorities said abortion should be illegal.

In addition, a whopping 70 percent of Americans oppose the Roe v. Wade decision being overturned, including 57 percent who feel strongly about this.

That’s up from the 58 percent who said the decision shouldn’t be overturned in 1989; the 60 percent who said this in 2002; and the 66 percent who said this in 2005.

By comparison, just 24 percent now want the Roe v. Wade decision overturned, including 21 percent who feel strongly about this position.

Much of this change, the NBC/WSJ pollsters say, is coming from African Americans, Latinos and women without college degrees -- all of whom increasingly oppose the Supreme Court decision being overturned.

The NBC/WSJ poll was conducted Jan. 12-15 of 1,000 adults (including 300 cellphone-only respondents), and it has a margin of error of plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16626932-nbcwsj-poll-majority-for-first-time-want-abortion-to-be-legal?lite

nailingit — January 22, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I'm so excited!!!

I found out yesterday that here in little old Battle Ground, we are finally getting a Pizza Hut. It's going in at the shopping center between Albertson's and B of A. This will be great, a decent pizza at a reasonable price. I like it!

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 22, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.

If that is extortion, then what would you call this:

President Obama threatens to withhold SS and veterans checks if debt ceiling not raised (Associated Press)

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.

Nothing better than home made!!! At least I know what is going into my pizza....but of course, I learned a long time ago to steer clear of these places.

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:34 a.m.

Well, aren't you just special.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


:))

---

Yea Patty! Keep stating reality to this bunch until they're voted out. It won't be long!

**Patty Murray to House GOP: End your 'hostage-taking'**

Senate Budget Committee Chairwoman Patty Murray said Wednesday that she is fully committed to moving a budget resolution through the Senate this year and called on House Republicans to end their “hostage-taking” and engage with her in writing a deficit reduction deal that can become law.

The comments by the Washington state Democrat will help clear the way for Senate acceptance of a pending debt ceiling bill—to be voted on by the House Wednesday— to allow additional Treasury borrowing through May 18th to finance the government’s obligations.

Murray paid little heed to House threats in that bill to withhold senators pay if no resolution is adopted. Instead she sought to put the focus back on what she sees as the GOP’s record of moving from one crisis to the next while rejecting compromises that can achieve some incremental progress to address the nation’s debt.

“Republicans can either say they want to have a budget debate in the Budget Committees or they can say they would prefer to negotiate the issue lurching from crisis to crisis—but they can’t say both,” Murray said. “It simply doesn’t make sense.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/patty-murray-to-house-gop-end-your-hostage-taking-86609.html#ixzz2IoYBVFwT

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


just an fyi:

CREDC:

http://www.credc.org/about/pdf/credc_case_statement.pdf

pages 4 and 5 of document under heading of "III. Policy Development, Promotion, Opportunities Five Year Cost - $250,000"

**Serve as a respected voice and advocate for economic development.**

*Represent the economic development community on the I-5 Columbia River Crossing Task Force.*

A Special interest??? Seems to me Madore has hit the nail on the head here, folks.

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.

Guess you'll never realize the reasoning behind junk food and the need to avoid because of what it does to your brain, huh!

Rock and Roll, eh!

Every watch Idiocracy? It's a great representation of a junk food society!!!

Just keep on, hawk...keep on!

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit @ 7:03- DM's unflinching lust for power might wake up many who are on the fence or not giving this project priority.

The ends justify the means for these guys. After all, the voice of God and God's people are directing them! :)

People are sick of these of conservative bullying/unethical tactics at both the local and national level.

Personally I'm fascinated by the energy so many give this project.

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, don't get me wrong. I find the whole bridge fiasco to be just that - a fiasco. I am against this light rail crap as it is being forced down our throat by OR. I also believe it should have been up for a public vote. I do, however, believe we need a new bridge but if we need a new bridge for better traffic (not quakes), then we should look at a third one.

I am, however, not a DM fan, I really think he is feeding some inner need with all this. And the way he goes about this - bad. Very naive. And yea, it's extortion. And no, I won't dignify answer a comparison to the prez. I am sticking to bridge disaster. So much money so far, so little to show for.

luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Random factoid to share: NBC is asking for small town newspaper applicants for a possible reality TV series.

Do you think The Columbian should throw their newsroom in the ring? Have they? Did they consider it?

[link text][1]

[1]: http://nnaweb.org/nna-news?articleTitle=casting-call-for-newspapers--1358442648--472--pub-aux-storieshttp%3A%2F%2Fnnaweb.org%2Fnna-news%3FarticleTitle%3Dcasting-call-for-newspapers--1358442648--472--pub-aux-stories

manthou — January 23, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Guess you'll never realize the reasoning behind junk food and the need to avoid because of what it does to your brain, huh!

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 7:57 a.m.

There is a huge difference between "junk food" and "fast food". And if your brain and thought process is a representation of NOT eating fast food, I'll take Pizza Hut any day.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I love the salad bar at Pizza Hut and the occasional slice or two. It is good to see a new business arrive in BG or anywhere, for that matter. We want the economy here to support the variety of tastes that make our little corner of the world so damn interesting.

___________________

I was on the East coast, enjoying some R and R from news. Even the inauguration celebration escaped me. I did notice Michelle's new 'do and love the bangs. Makes her look younger. I also noticed that Justice Alito was hiding behind shades this time. Eyes red from crying?

manthou — January 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou good to see you! I was about to post wondering where you are.

---

luvit- Understood and figured as much.

I'm up in the air about light rail. It's the way of the future but is now the best time etc.

It's just fascinating to me the passion so many exert with this project, the politics and perhaps most of all, the people involved.

The no tolls anti light, anti dark, anti change anti tax anti you name it crowd should take this bad reality show on the road. Put it on the tube for everybody!

Passion about light rail exists on both sides of the aisle with differing opinions and understandably so. But what seems to energize this crowd is a nasty strain of conservatism. This latest move and the people who endorse it is telling.

The latest DM stink will rile undecided folks imo. The anti light crowd might regret another vote, hence crap that's being done now.

I don't mind paying a little extra to facilitate transportation funding in my community. I do mind using these types extortion tactics.

It's the future. Given the average age of the anti light tolls, crowd, 90% will never see the project started, and are motivated by self interests not to pay a fee for it imo, and not the considering our community at large.

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdC6Vl...

Rare footage of a Vancouver voter experiencing the DM effect.

Maybe we should have a litmus test for public office and quiz those who believe their decisions are guided by some sort of unwavering God. If so disqualify them to hold office.

That would be a start.

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Wow. The Madore/Mielke breaking of the CREDC funding contract that was approved in December: I can hardly take any time off here without missing something spectacular. I call these guys the Frick and Frack Twins now. They will wind up costing the tax payers MORE money, in the long run, due to their clown show antics. Mark my word. Madore will go down in flames eventually due to his nose-thumbing or ignorance of procedural ethics and legal protocol.

I want an accounting of all the legal costs he will incur for the county. Someone please start taking a tally now.

The story that I find infinitely more surprising got very few FB comments here. This is the foot-dragging on disclosing of public records that Clark County is doing on the former disgraced prosecutor Holmes (resigned after he was charged with soliciting prostitutes). It appears that he is getting preferential treatment or they are being super careful because they fear a lawsuit. Good reporting, Paris Aichen:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

manthou — January 23, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

Great to have you back.

Maybe Boehner could benefit from those "shades". Of course, there would always be the telltale streaks under his eyes in that spray tan.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou B: Given the excitement of covering Clark County politics with the Madore/Mielke union (shall we congratulate the two lovebirds?), I heartily urge you to enter your newsroom life as a reality show contestant in the NBC proposed project.

C'mon. You know it would be fun. :

Are you all fighting for this beat? God, what a plum assignment. No more snoozer meetings for sure.

manthou — January 23, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.

Here's a little chart, courtesy of Pizza Hut to keep the consumer informed:

http://www.pizzahut.com/nutritionpizza.html

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You can't have it both ways. I was pointing out the president's concerns ONLY because he has his reasons for putting forth such a move...to reduce or eliminate special interests which are stalling the inevitable...as Madore is with regards to the crossing project. I could've given you a volume of other examples in the political spectrum, luvithere...Repub, Democrat or otherwise. The truth is...as long as CREDC supports the current crossing without raising any questions regarding light rail and the negative impacts it has on the county, they are supporting a special interest yet they're supposed to be totally neutral when it comes to the details of the crossing. Instead, they are part of the CRC Task force with active involvement in the project. I still believe that it is not extortion...may resemble it, but it is not extortion.

Funny how those who oppose a politician are quick to put a negative label on his efforts to ensure the taxpayers are getting what they asked for!

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There is something infinitely satisfying about a pizza from Pizza Hut. The smell, the grease, the sticky hands, the taste. Did I mention the grease?

Sometimes one just has to have one of those for that inner sense of happiness and well being.

Anybody ever eat at Top Burger in Camas? The smell, the grease, etc. etc etc. Superb. I figure I eat healthy all week, and a few times a year (less than 5 actually), I indulge in such tasty food.

Just saying.

luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There's something infinitely satisfying about a home made pizza. The smell, the fresh herbs, freshly-made pizza dough, fresh veggies from your garden, sausage or pepperoni in which you prepared and smoked yourself, tossed about the top of the pizza with freshly-grated Parmesano Reggiano, mozzarella and crumbled feta...and pizza sauce without all the needless color enhancers and preservatives...especially when made from scratch!

Anybody ever eat a top-of-the-line barbecue steak burger from wonderfully natural beef you've ground yourself and coated in your own seasoning/barbecue rub and either broiled or barbecued...on hamburger buns you've made from scratch???

I indulge in such tasty food.

Just sayin'...8))

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And the best part about the home made pizza or barbecue steak burgers at home is...

Sharing with good neighbors, good friends and family!!! You can't put a price tag on that one!

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJjK9n...

It's already been put to a vote...

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.

Nice to know you have all that time to do all those things, I mean, what else do you have to do but post here. Right?

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Avoiding an economic showdown with President Obama, the House on Wednesday passed legislation to suspend the nation’s statutory borrowing limit for three months, without including the dollar-for-dollar spending cuts that Republicans once insisted would have to be part of any debt limit bill.
The measure, however, did include a provision that docks the pay of lawmakers if one of the chambers of Congress fails to pass a budget blueprint by April 15. That provision provided House Republicans with a rationale for giving in on the debt ceiling, at least temporarily.
“It’s real simple: no budget, no pay,” Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio said before the measure passed by 285 to 144. More than enough Democrats joined Republicans to make up for more than 30 Republican defections.

**Apparently, Jamie voted NO. I guess she needs the money. Guess they better work it out.**

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting Senate hearings on the Bengazie terrorist attack..

Ms Clinton-
**What does it matter now...**

I guess that sums it up for her and this administration...The cover up, the lies, the misled information, the mistatements... half truths....Her rants and off tangent answers were simply a way to spend time on non important issues rather than actually answering the questions.

In addition shame on the Dems who didn't bring to bear a single question about the raid ... If they had a close relative killed I suppose they would be a bit more upset.. All political answers...

I wouldn't be surprised if we find a few people missing in the coming years ak Arkansas gate

vanwadreamer — January 23, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm watching vanwa. Please state in particular's what you are asserting. Sec. Clinton has handled herself great and with grace answering all questions, yet choosing not to suffer fools and their ridiculous conspiracies.

Again, please specify.

*Her rants and off tangent answers were simply a way to spend time on non important issues rather than actually answering the questions.*

*I wouldn't be surprised if we find a few people missing in the coming years ak Arkansas gate*

vanwadreamer — January 23, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

Another serious matter distorted by Fox news and their followers buy it. :(

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 23, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

*Of course you would take it out of context, any lie to make your point.*

"The fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest? Or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they'd go kill some Americans? What difference, at this point, does it make?" a clearly exasperated and angry Clinton told Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis. "It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, senator."

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BIG NEWS!

**Women In Combat: Leon Panetta Removes Military Ban, Opening Front-Line Positions**

WASHINGTON -- Senior defense officials say Pentagon chief Leon Panetta is removing the military's ban on women serving in combat, opening hundreds of thousands of front-line positions and potentially elite commando jobs after more than a decade at war.

The groundbreaking move recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff overturns a 1994 rule prohibiting women from being assigned to smaller ground combat units. Panetta's decision gives the military services until January 2016 to seek special exceptions if they believe any positions must remain closed to women.

A senior military official says the services will develop plans for allowing women to seek the combat positions. Some jobs may open as soon as this year. Assessments for others, such as special operations forces, including Navy SEALS and the Army's Delta Force, may take longer.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/women-in-combat_n_2535954.html

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


God guns n' nuts!

**Religious right joins the NRA in gun control battle**

*Unsurprisingly, groups like the Family Research Council and the Liberty Counsel are standing with Wayne LaPierre*

Religious-right extremists who have spent most of their energy in recent years vilifying LGBT people or fighting the nation’s culture wars on other fronts have found a new demon to slay: gun control.

It might seem odd that those who profess allegiance to the teachings of Jesus Christ would be so vociferous about making sure that Americans have continued, unfettered access to assault rifles. But in the wake of the massacre of schoolchildren in Connecticut, which ignited the most heated debate about gun control in this country in a decade, some of the religious right’s most rabid voices are joining the fight.

Matt Barber, a lawyer for the anti-gay Liberty Counsel, predicts a civil war over gun control. Bryan Fischer, the rabid mouthpiece for the homophobic American Family Association, has banned the use of the words “assault rifles” on his radio show. Even the Family Research Council, which describes itself as a pro-family organization, has targeted President Obama as “blatantly disingenuous when he says he believes in the Second Amendment.”

David Barton, the Christian-right pseudo-historian whose views on America’s founding have been widely debunked by mainstream historians, went on conspiracy theorist Glenn Beck’s Internet television show this week to claim the National Rifle Association (NRA) was formed to protect freed slaves from the Ku Klux Klan.

“The NRA rises up in 1871 with three Union officers who had fought to end slavery, fought for civil rights, fought for civil rights for blacks,” Barton said. “And part of the reason is, they want blacks to defend themselves individually, use their individual right of self-defense against the Klan.” (Actually, most historians argue the birth of the NRA had nothing at all to do with civil rights but rather to establish training standards for emerging rifle technology.)

Barber went so far as to predict a coming civil war if the White House moves forward with gun control. In an article published a week ago for the far-right conspiracy website WorldNet Daily, he accused the government of preparing for a gun grab aimed at “controlling – disarming – the law-abiding masses.”

“I love guns. Grew up with ‘em. As a former police officer with 12 years in the U.S. military, I know how to use them, too – use them well. I plan to buy more – a bunch more. In fact, who’s to say I don’t already have a veritable arsenal?” Barber wrote. “Point is, tain’t Big Brother Barack’s nor any other candy-keistered-liberal-cream-puff’s business whether I do or not.”

At issue, for most on the religious right, is Obama.

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/religious_right_joins_the_nra_in_gun_control_battle/

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If a legally binding contract has been broken, then Madore and Mielke are wrong. That should be the focus of inquiry regarding the CREDC thingy.

Other than that, it’s a foregone conclusion that the Collectivists-through-government crowd are going to absolutely hate Madore's guts. Good, so what else is new.

kn_dalai — January 23, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh the good old demo bs spin hits again.

While Ms Clinton lost a few points with me today over the testifying on Benghazi, I'd like to know why it isn't important as to why and who killed 3/4 Americans????!!

My gosh people, our very own people, American people died for no reason other than the fact they were American and not...well I won't go there..too many touchy feelers around. Ask yourself how would you feel about it if it were family??

Any other time in our history when one Americans falls, we stand up as a people and demand why and who and take care of the situation..immediately!
Seems a large tube of Ky and forceps are needed to remove heads from backsides!

So is this another incident the Obama admin is going to sweep under the rug? Like fast and furious? I though this was going to be a transparent admin? Or is this another 4 year of lied to again???

As far as the debt/budget deal... I'm all for shutting down their paychecks until a deal is done. Come on this has been in the works since 09... quit sitting on your thumbs and twirling and do your jobs.

ELISI — January 23, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.

lol...

It's obvious you've never made a pizza from scratch. Whippin' up the pizza dough takes about 5 minutes, then just waiting for it to rise (unless it's made with scratch biscuit dough)...no biggie. For the other steps in preparation, it doesn't take that long to prepare and neither does a good steak burger. The hours of quality time spent with friends and family far outweigh the hours spent driving around to these "fast food" joints and waiting 20-40 minutes for someone else (excluding the cost to drive the vehicle to the "fast food" joint)...someone you don't even know...to handle your food with ingredients you probably couldn't even say when you read them...and half the time, they mess up the order. The gratification of making it myself far outweighs the convenience of "fast food" AND mine is much healthier AND more affordable!!!

Regarding posting on the forum...only a very small window of time in my day to share my POV, sweetie. Less than an hour in the start of my day online, half an hour just before 11:00 am and now...probably 10 minutes. Considering I'm awake 17 hours in a day on average...a very small window of time!

nice of you to show concern, tho

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...hope you're feelin' better this afternoon!!! And welcome back!

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere...

Do you consider what the House of Representatives did today as extortion? They've passed a bill which congressional paychecks would be withheld if a budget isn't passed. It's called the No Budget No Pay Bill.

goldenoldie — January 23, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks golden, a tad better, better that when I went into the hospital!

ELISI — January 23, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk,

Your response is typical BS Rhetoric.....What difference does it make.. Our ***** president has lied.. Thats the **** diferrence, what tools these folks are...

Nail- You seem to be smarter than your response... Who died in Arkansas only MS Clintons best friend after foiled land deals...The Dems and the President have there fist on the pulse of any negative publicity... Doesn't matter as people will beleive what they want... The lemmings are falling over the Cliff with the President.. You and Hawk ought to be on the Presidents cabinet for Gods sake... Matter of fact I'll send hime your C's best passages and I bet you'll be offered a job on the White House Staff...:) The rest looks like it did her good, my wife thought her hairdoo was better as well, allott more blonde in it she said.. She also liked the way she through down her fist...Boy I'm mad for you all asking me these tough questions I can't answer.. Now can I go and take my last trip home... I need a piece of fudge...

vanwadreamer — January 23, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**The GOP's 'No Budget, No Pay' Plan Is A Farce: Congress Will Get Paid No Matter How A Budget Standoff Ends**

The "No Budget, No Pay" bill that passed the House of Representatives Wednesday is designed to stop all pay to members of Congress until they pass a budget.

However, the title of the legislation is somewhat misleading.

**Members of Congress will get paid — members earn $174,000 per year, or $348,000 per term — regardless of whether they pass a budget, they just might not get their paychecks right away.**

According to the bill, if by April 15 Congress hasn't agreed to a concurrent resolution on the 2014 budget, the payroll administrator of the House will deposit all paychecks into an escrow account. **When** the members get that money will be determined by their success in negotiating a budget.

The first thing that has to happen is that both the House and the Senate need to each pass a budget. This is easy for the House, which has already passed the Paul Ryan budget and is working on an updated version now. The onus, as intended, is on the Senate to produce their own budget.

Next, select Senators and Representatives start negotiating, with the goal of reconciling the two plans into a mutually-agreed upon conference report, which must then be passed by both chambers.

This is called a concurrent resolution, and sets the levels of appropriation bills for the budgetary year. It's not a law for the President to sign, just a negotiated, binding agreement over what appropriations bills will eventually be sent to the President.

**If the House agrees on the concurrent resolution, Congress gets paid. At that point, every member of Congress gets the lump sum payment of all their paychecks that will have been put into escrow since April 15.**

If the House doesn't agree to the concurrent resolution at any point in the 113th Congress, then it members will not get paid until the last day of Congress, in late 2014 or early 2015. **At that point, each member will get all $348,000 in a lump sum.**

**No matter what, Congress still gets paid.**

One other provision in the law is also interesting.

According to subsection (b) of section 2 of the bill, nonvoting delegates and resident commissioners will be subject to the same rules.

So despite the fact that the delegates can't actually vote on a budget, they still will not be paid.

This impacts Resident Commissioner Pedro Pierluisi of Puerto Rico, Del. Eni Faleomavaega of American Samoa, Del. Elanor Holmes Norton of D.C., Del. Madeleine Bordallo of Guam Del. Donna Christian-Christensen of the U.S. Virgin Islands and Del. Gregorio Sablan of the Northern Mariana Islands.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/no-budget-no-pay-congress-2013-1#ixzz2IqS4UWgf

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa @ 3:34- Did you used to post as ray_menlo?

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmmm interesting.....

Obama Government Equal to Population in 1776

President Obama Monday invoked Thomas Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence to justify his expansive view of government, but Jefferson might be surprised to learn that the number of federal employees today is nearly equal to the entire population of the nation in 1776.

According to the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, the current civilian federal workforce, excluding postal service employees, was 2.15 million in 2011. The Census Bureau estimates that in 1776, the entire population of the United States was just a bit higher, at about 2.5 million. The number suggests that every adult man and woman living at the time – at least – would have been needed to staff today’s federal government.

The comparison is ironic because Obama invoked Jefferson’s famous line from the Declaration about “unalienable rights” such as “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” to launch an inaugural address that invoked the Founders as justification for Obama’s own statist agenda.

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2013/01/23/federal-government-size-entire-population-1776/?utm_source=feedburner&utm;_medium=feed&utm;_campaign=Feed%3A+WhiteHouseDossier+%28White+House+Dossier%29

AND WOW< WOW< WOW how about that Beyounce snubbing Bidden? Or, and....how about when queen Michelle rolled her eyes at Boehner?? Showing great maturity these girls, best go back to finishing school for manners!

ELISI — January 23, 2013 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK. I'll try another random factoid. Anything to find something that doesn't polarize so much.

Love quinoa? Goldie, I know you do..... I do, too.

Our discovery of this nutritious and ancient staple of Peru is making it too expensive for the people of this poor country to afford any longer. They are turning toward cheap junk food to sustain them:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans-stomach-unpalatable-truth-quinoa?CMP=twt_gu

manthou — January 23, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Zach Kopplin, Teen Anti-Creationism Crusader Fights For Science Education In Louisiana (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/zach-kopplin-anti-creationism_n_2533952.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HEY!!! No getting off the pizza topic without my 2 cents.

I - like Goldie - prefer making my own. No hit on Pizza Hut - they'll do in a pinch and are just as good as those overpriced "Best Pizza" joints like Hot Lips. But there's something satisfying about making your own. Especially when you like adding stuff they don't carry in most shops.

And it doesn't take that long. Whip up a quick sauce from a can of tomato paste, thin with water, and add whatever stuff along the line of seasonings you like. I add a tablespoon or so of sugar, as I like a sweeter sauce. Simmer while you get the rest ready. I like crumbled Danish Blue, Kalamat olives, sliced mozzarella, and it took a trip to the general store in Government Camp but I finally found decent pepperoni that can be sliced nice and thick - and this is the real source of some of the best of that oil dripping off! Fleischmann's has a no rise yeast specially formulated for pizza (WalMart carries it) - mix, knead about 5 minutes, and toss your own crust and place on a baking stone (coated with corn meal). Slap all your stuff on and bake at 425 for about 15-20 minutes. All total - start to finish - maybe 45 minutes. A whole lot quicker than whipping up good chili, spaghetti, ribs, or the other stuff that constitutes real food.

roger — January 23, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 3:42 p.m

Nah, ray was smarter than that and spelled better too.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Inslee encouraged by marijuana talk with Attorney General Holder**

*Gov. Jay Inslee said his conversation with Attorney General Eric Holder was “very satisfying” and a “confidence-builder” about the state’s ability to move forward implementing legal marijuana.*

Gov. Jay Inslee said his conversation Tuesday with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder convinced him Washington state should continue making rules for a legal marijuana industry as mandated by voter-approved Initiative 502.

Inslee and state Attorney General Bob Ferguson met with Holder because of the conflict between federal law, which bans all marijuana, and the state’s law, which makes possession of an ounce of pot legal for those 21 and older.

Inslee said the 45-minute conversation was “very satisfying” and a “confidence-builder” about the state’s ability to move forward implementing legal marijuana. “We went in thinking we should continue with rule-making and nothing I heard should dissuade us,” Inslee said.

At the same time, he stressed that Holder said nothing about the federal government’s intentions and whether it would crack down on Washington state or look the other way.

Inslee said he did not press Holder for a clearer signal, or position, because he considered their talk a preliminary meeting, with more discussions to follow.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020190301_insleeholderpotxml.html

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 23, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.

Hah! You think that's bad, you should have seen how I rolled my eyes at YOU!

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye @ 6:52- Astute observations hawkeye. Didn't ray used to stumble (still does?) around downtown preaching God and republicanism?

I remember advising ray on many occasions to relax, not hurt anyone and get a good nights sleep so he could continue his mission of truth the next day.

Wi-fi can be dangerous!

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hey manthou -
check out this article regarding the changing economics of quinoa.

p[link text][1]p

[1]: http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/bolivia-fights-food-shortages-by-investing-big-bucks-in-non-gmo-seeds.htm

soapbox4u — January 23, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 6:59 p.m

Har, har, har.. Hawkeye, so funny I forgot to laugh!!
Rollem baby blues...**:)**

ELISI — January 23, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I am just rolling my eyes at the bickering in the cellar these days. We can truly bicker about every little thing. We are a reflection of Congress - does not bode well. Let's negotiate! Let's be open to some other thoughts.

Oh well, I thought I try. :)

Manthou - tried Farro yet? Another ancient grain. Dang, that stuff is good. A bit chewey, like barley I think. I really like it. Costco sells organic version, right next to the organic Quinoa.

luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

I can't do Quinoa. Too much calcium, I'm prone to kidney stones and the lab says they are calcium. The less pain the better.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What up soap?

luvit- Bickering about bickering bickerers? :)

nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk - that's too bad but understandable. The stuff is otherwise so healthy; mixes with just about everything. Check the farro, really good stuff. I do more and more of these grains, steer clear of pasta/wheat. Seems to feel better all around (naturally, spaghetti sauce calls for pasta. Must draw line).

PS: if I read my research right, farro has something to do with grain that used to go into beer. Hmmm, could explain a lot.

luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 23, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.

LOL - well put. Guess this is the bicker bicker cellar. The real BBC.

hm, might be time to shut off the computer and find my brain.

luvithere — January 23, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luv, I looked up farro and found this;

"Farro is a food product composed of the grains of certain wheat species in whole form."

If you are staying away from wheat, this ain't your guy.

hawkeye — January 23, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was just reading about the CRC project again. (State to weigh in on light rail petition controversy)

I have a several questions about C-Tran and Tri-Met. How much does C-Tran pay to run buses over in Oregon? Why are the ones I see going over in the afternoon always 'Not In Service?' Why aren't there buses running over here from Tri-Met? It seems to me that running empty wastes a lot of fuel. Especially when they are trapped in rush-hour traffic.The C-Tran board has nine members and nowhere have I ever seen this issue addressed.

I find it ironic that every point that the FBer's are saying about not wanting LOO-RAIL in Clark County has been covered down here in the basement for years. The one that gets me is people asking for a YES or NO vote on LOO-RAIL. You know if and when they government puts it on the ballot is will be convoluted. I have asked the Columbian on may occasions to put the question up here. Plain and simple and not beating around the bush. YES or NO. Do you want Lite-Rail over here in Clark County.

JohnCasey — January 24, 2013 at 5:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 23, 2013 at 5 p.m.

You're right...I do like quinoa. Thanks for the link. Definitely worth reading and taking into consideration what the mass market is doing to the people of Peru. Of course, those who live in the Andes have their ancestors to thank when it comes to producing food which the government wouldn't take from them - potatoes. You know farmers used to hide potato crops in the Andes in order to have food for their families???

..

soapbox4u — January 23, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.

It seems to me that no matter where Monsanto goes, the price of food not touched by their genetic engineering skyrockets. Another good link and I'm glad you posted it, even though it was intended for manthou.

..

roger — January 23, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.

Hey roger...here's an idea for all who make pizzas from scratch. How 'bout a pizza makin' party!!! A great way to bring friends together. Maybe someone will bring some home-brewed root beer or beer for that matter for those who like home brew as well!!! Someone is bound to have some venison pepperoni or sausage...another good addition.

My favorite pizza...chicken, mushroom and vegetables with a creamy white sauce, embedded with aromatic and flavorful herbs. Ooh yeah...and add some flame-roasted pepper slices to the pizza as well!

...

luvithere...

Ever try farina??? Another great addition to custard pie. My favorite being what they call Bougatsa...a Greek delicacy made with filo, orange rind and orange juice, butter and powdered sugar.

...

JohnCasey...

Ever feel like we're reading archived records of the Columbian these days??? We got the word out way back when - when it was actually a fresh topic...now everybody who is new to the issue believes the topic they share is new information. Good that they're discussing it (hopefully not too late) and yes, any ballot measure will be written in a way which suits the criteria of special interests but won't suit the needs of the taxpayers.

goldenoldie — January 24, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Huge story continues. Today's republican leadership has zero sense of fair play and a win at any cost attitude. Their constituents go along with anything underhanded and subversive it as long as it benefits them. Kinda like the Madore thing.* Great Americans! :))

*And conservatives wonder why public opinion is less than favorable to them.*

*I've been undecided as to the electoral college v popular vote. I just went popular.*

*This is what they do. It's how they do it.*

**Virginia Electoral Votes Allocation Measure Advances In State Senate**

Richmond Times-Dispatch | By Jim Nolan

Legislation that would apportion Virginia's electoral votes by the winner of each congressional district, instead of the current winner-take-all system, emerged from a Senate subcommittee today without a recommendation.

The vote in a Privileges and Elections subcommittee was 3-3, with Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel, R-Fauquier, siding with the two Democrats on the six-member panel to produce a tie. The legislation now heads to the full committee, where a 10-5 GOP majority is likely to send it to the floor of the full Senate for a vote.

Sen. Charles W. Carrico Sr., R-Grayson, the sponsor of Senate Bill 723, said he brought the bill because his rural constituents feel "that their voices are not heard" in presidential elections. He said currently only Maine and Nebraska award electoral votes based on the turnout in each congressional district. Maine and Nebraska also award the statewide winner two electoral votes.

Sen. John S. Edwards, D-Roanoke said switching to an apportionment system has the potential for "a really skewed election" in which a presidential candidate could win the popular vote in the state but in a state like Virginia, still lose eight or nine of the state's 13 electoral votes based on congressional district results.

Critics of the legislation, this time around mostly Democrats, have labeled the bill and others like it "sore losers bills" considering the victory of President Barack Obama in the commonwealth in 2012.

**Despite a solid popular vote victory in 2012, an apportionment of Virginia's electoral vote would have given Obama only four votes to 9 for Republican nominee Mitt Romney.**

Sen. Thomas Garrett, R-Louisa, said changing the electoral apportionment system would drive greater interest of presidential politicians to other areas of the commonwealth. "All these small localities will be brought into the process," he said, noting that Sen. John C. Miller, D-Newport News proposed similar legislation in 2008.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/virginia-electoral-votes_n_2536561.html

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well written letter from Julie Henton with some good FB commentary. I've started to pay a little attention to FB comments in different articles, and there are several posters who display solid thoughtful rationale. I wish more on the FB side would post here. God knows we could use some new blood in the basement.

Tomorrow's America, in so many ways, will be so much better off. Less voodoo, more reality.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk - re Farro. You are of course correct. I was a bit tired last night and mixed up my grains. Also should specify that I am trying to stay away from the white bleached wheat flour we find in pasta. Farro is an older version of wheat.
Gold- I am trying Amaranth next, heard that's really good also.

luvithere — January 24, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*This was close to making me physically ill. This is sick stuff! When will it end?*

**New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As 'Tampering With Evidence'**

A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.

House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown (R), would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."

“Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says.

Third-degree felonies in New Mexico carry a sentence of up to three years in prison.

Pat Davis of ProgressNow New Mexico, a progressive nonprofit opposing the bill, called it "blatantly unconstitutional" on Thursday.

“The bill turns victims of rape and incest into felons and forces them to become incubators of evidence for the state,” he said. “According to Republican philosophy, victims who are ‘legitimately raped’ will now have to carry the fetus to term in order to prove their case.“

The bill is unlikely to pass, as Democrats have a majority in both chambers of New Mexico's state legislature.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/new-mexico-abortion-bill_n_2541894.html

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 8:33 a.m.

The commentary got pretty silly pretty quickly.....

*Lance Sjogren · Top Commenter · UCLA
Most of the commentary from the political left is equivalent to religious fundamentalism although it is expressed in "secular clothing".
Reply · 2 · · 19 hours ago
Penny Schinke · Top Commenter
Definitely, Lance!
Reply · · 15 hours ago*

mr_basil_seal — January 24, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As did [this LttE][1]:

*Jon Alldritt · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington
Jeffrey Gibbons
The fact is the science outside of Jim Hansons unit including the NOAA relationship strongly state the increase in CO2 has no effect on weather and that what has over the last cupple decades been called the most catastofic in history is in fact not. Property damage is up in cost due to more people and mostly propertyand cost. At the same time the loss of life has stedaly declined in the US as well as around the world. You may hear differantly but that is the MSM making news not reporting it.
A good example is a preliminary report of the hotest year in the US seting a record in 2012. It had a disclamer that not all the data was in and compiled. MSM jumped on it and the green groups went wild at the same time clameing it was world wide. All the world wide records showed the world temp went down and the final report on the US showed it went down. A good comparison would be job numbers just before the election.

John Casper · Top Commenter · Hudsons Bay High School
i dont care about the green crap, i only care about gas and oil, nothing will replace them, nothing! solar and wind will not power an automobile!*

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

Sigh......

mr_basil_seal — January 24, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And yet more:

*John Casper · Top Commenter · Hudsons Bay High School
i dont declare anything, and the earth is just fine with my cars! all you al gore nuts are perpetraiting a hoax!
Reply · 2 · · Tuesday at 8:49pm

Penny Schinke · Top Commenter
jan, that reference is more about the "sealing" of the saved, since the not harming does not go past the "sealing", so it's not really related to what you're using it for...it in no way infers that the "not harming" goes on and on. they're just not to harm UNTIL.
Genesis would be a better place to find that kind of edict, especially the first couple of chapters. God is very clear about the stewardship of the earth and that is in it, under it and above it.*

Op. cit.

mr_basil_seal — January 24, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- It doesn't take long does it. Lorretta's great answer to this penny character, *why 'on earth' would what you believe 'offend' me?*

Conservatives in the basement use this same tactic. "What are you afraid of?", "I didn't mean to offend you." "I didn't mean to upset you". Anything to debase and make it personal. And usually following this off topic obfuscation the insults fly.

Same ol' same ol'! :)

I think Lance is the funniest guy who posts! I'm not quite sure if he means to be, but he's hilarious!

With me, he conjures up an images of a disoriented Jason Alexander residing at the Motel 6!

Yea for wi-fi! :)

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Penny seems to be the same one who used to post here under "pen". Her posts don't seem to be as spiteful and bigoted as they were (perhaps she's still posting here under a different avatar???) when she posted here.

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal



*As did this LttE:*

mr_basil_seal — January 24, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

*Amazing stuff! I think with the increased popularity of homeschooling, religious in particular, the right's assault on science in public ed., the voices who oppose science will be increasingly bizarre.*

[But the legislation has also received vital support from groups associated with the religious right. For example, the perversely named Louisiana Science Education Act, which opens the door to climate science denial in the classroom, was co-authored by the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based creationist thinktank. That act also received crucial support from the Alliance Defending Freedom, the well-funded Christian legal advocacy group that has described itself as "a servant organization that provides the resources that will keep the door open for the spread of the Gospel", and which promotes a radical religious agenda in public schools.

What does religion have to do with climate science? Radical religious activists promote the anti-science bills, in part, because they also seek to undermine the teaching of evolution – another issue that supposedly has "two sides", so schools should "teach the controversy". Now, you don't have to believe that Earth was created in six hectic days in order to be skeptical about climate science, but a large number of climate science deniers also happen to be evolution deniers.]

http://www.alternet.org/environment/how-religious-right-fueling-climate-change-denial

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Even our flags!*

**12 Iconic American Products That Are No Longer Made In The U.S.**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/american-products-not-made-usa_n_2536773.html#slide=2018543

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***How can we possibly trust these people to write laws that affect us?***

Congressmen are significantly richer than the rest of the country, and members of the House of Representatives have been getting richer. The average U.S. Representative had a net worth of $6.5 million in 2011, up from $4.3 million in 2004, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. The average U.S. Senator had a net worth of $13.9 million in 2011, slightly lower than in 2004.

Meanwhile, the median U.S. household's net worth was just $66,740 in 2010, 35 percent lower than in 2005, according to the Census Bureau.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/congress-estate-tax_n_2534072.html

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*How can we possibly trust these people to write laws that affect us?*

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

It's exactly what I thought this morning when reading about Dems failure to bring meaningful filibuster reform. Sad on many levels and will make change that much harder to accomplish.

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*This should get quite interesting. Regardless of depth or meaningful direction, I can hear RW conspiracists and their ilk now! :)))* Instead of distorting items like Agenda 21, this could be AGENDA OMG!

**UN Launches Drone Investigation Into Legality Of U.S. Program**

WASHINGTON -- The United Nations opened a major new investigation on Thursday into the United States' use of drones and targeted assassinations.

The U.N. investigation, led by special rapporteur on counterterrorism and human rights Ben Emmerson, is expected to focus on the legal justification for America's expansive drone program, which has largely remained secretive and unexamined.

"The exponential rise in the use of drone technology in a variety of military and non-military contexts represents a real challenge to the framework of established international law," Emmerson said in a statement released by his office.

"It is therefore imperative that appropriate legal and operational structures are urgently put in place to regulate its use in a manner that complies with the requirements of international law, including international human rights law, international humanitarian law (or the law of war as it used to be called), and international refugee law."

Human rights observers have long objected to the use of drones to target suspected terrorists because they often result in wider civilian deaths than administration officials have acknowledged.

But more practical concerns -- about the legality and efficacy of the program, as well as the White House's lack of transparency -- have also been growing.

The United States is by far the leading user of drones and unmanned vehicles for targeted assassinations, but it is not the only one. Drone use is expected to expand widely around the world -- China and Iran already are known to have the capability -- and there have been growing calls for the U.S. to clarify its own internal rules for the appropriate use of the technology.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/un-drone-investigation_n_2542809.html

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Human rights observers have long objected to the use of drones to target suspected terrorists because they often result in wider civilian deaths than administration officials have acknowledged.

But then again, so do IEDs and ICBMs.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's a thought, if those "innocent" people don't want to die, maybe they shouldn't hang around with the terrorists in the first place.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"...and he said this" and "she said that"..."Oooh and what about what they said, too!"

Strikes me funny how grown people can act so immaturely these days. Maybe the American Medical Association needs to call it some kind of syndrome. Hey...here's a good one!!! They can call it the JSKFB syndrome!!! (Jersey Sh/Kardash/Fakebook).

Cause...too much time in front of the monitor.

Treatment...get out and see the real world, not the reality shows.

goldenoldie — January 24, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder why the Left isn't asking any questions about John Kerry's Blind Trusts... and the percentage he pays in income tax...I guess since he is a democrat that matters.. If he were a R he would have been grilled.. Oh and his toys that are in other states avoiding the higher taxes he would have to pay on them in his own state.. Just makes one wonder...

OBTW John Kerry wealthiest person in the senate....Pays similar taxes that Romney does...Just interesting

vanwadreamer — January 24, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 12:23 p.m.

If only we were killing only terrorists and their associates, but the reality seems to be far from it. If you get time check out these links. Not only are we (seemingly) causing much collateral damage in countries we're not at war with, but the way casualties are accounted for are more than disconcerting.

I'm all for getting the bad guys, but not if we have to kill 50 innocents for every one terrorist. We're rapidly expanding regional hate against America in the Middle East.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/microsites/human-rights-institute/COLUMBIACountingDronesFinalNotEmbargo.pdf

http://www.policymic.com/articles/16949/predator-drone-strikes-50-civilians-are-killed-for-every-1-terrorist-and-the-cia-only-wants-to-up-drone-warfare

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/19/americas_drone_sickness/

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- Interesting you're knocking wealth and success after exalting Romney for same for many months. After all, *everyone has their money overseas*...right? :)

Here's something you won't see on Hannity tonight.

Those damn Democrats!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50139628n

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seems to me Sen. John Kerry has a narrow outlook on the threat of nuclear war and the development of technology which could send nukes right in our front door here on the west coast. I notice nothing was said by him about North Korea's latest -

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2013/01/24/after-un-acts-nkorea-vows-to-beef-up-nukes

goldenoldie — January 24, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lance is as thoughtful, articulate and knowledgeable as it gets. If you think he’s funny; it’s because your ridiculous behaviour and fanaticism has reduced you to that of an irrelevant Daffy Duck.

He’s also a published author. You’re not even playing in the same ball game.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And another unthoughtful, inarticulate knowledgeless and unprovoked insult from you k_nd.

I suppose everyone needs a hero and you seem to need many. Are you Him? Relative? Friend? Business associate? Or much more?

Whatever. I'm sure he has a sense of humor which far exceeds your own.

*You’re not even playing in the same ball game.*

*UCLA Most of the commentary from the political left is equivalent to religious fundamentalism although it is expressed in "secular clothing".*

You got that right!

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"He's also a published author. You’re not even playing in the same ball game."

That 'bout had me spewing on the board and monitor! Heh! That's some funny stuff right there, kn_dalai.

Drift — January 24, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.

Hey, when you post these funny tidbits, will you please reference what you are talking about? You know, kinda like I did here? Just a little cut-n-paste so I know what I'm laughing at. OK?

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail

I'm not,, just the opposite , but the Dems arn't asking about these things. I guess it isn't important after the election just before.. See Kerry must not be out of touch with the 47% like Romney was...or the Military that he once railed against... Kinda funny now he is going to be Sec Of State.....It's only usefull when the Libs want it to be...
Kerry is just a yes man, like the rest of Obama's boys... Wonder why there all white older men in his cabinet???? I guess he trying to line that majority up for the next president....

Hillary says I never saw the cable from Ambassador Stevens, thats why we have such a "HUGE" work force under me that can read every cable and get it to the right people to act on... Huge work force..

vanwadreamer — January 24, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh and it continues to flow like a raging river...and they said it wasn't happening...

**Medicare improperly paid $120M to ineligibles**

Illegal immigrants and prison inmates received more than $120 million in Medicare services from 2009-2011 despite federal law that makes them ineligible for the program, according to two new reports from the HHS inspector general.

The issue, according to the reports, is timing. When Medicare is alerted that someone is incarcerated or undocumented, its contractors help prevent payments from going out the door. But often, Medicare’s databases aren’t up to date, and improper payments go out.

Nearly 3,000 illegal immigrants made thousands of claims resulting in $91.6 million in services improperly covered by Medicare during the three-year period studied in the report.

Over the same period, more than 135,000 Medicare beneficiaries were incarcerated, a second report shows. The report says that 11,600 inmates submitted more than 75,000 claims and received services worth $33.6 million.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/reports-medicare-paid-120m-in-illegal-care-86676.html#ixzz2IwMqeiSf

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal




Lance has his opinions and does a better job than most in getting them out their in a coherent manner. Where I've repeatedly differed with him is with his plan for light rail - just cut back on the stops and eliminate the parking garages. Uh - sorry Lance, but most of the additional expense is incurred by putting the train on the bridge in the first place. He never responds to that; just repeats the same plan the next time an article on LRT comes up. In that respect he's like my buddy Mike. And perhaps a few of the rest of the people "over there." (Quick - change the subject.)

What about some of the commenting on the article on this young guy who committed suicide on Mill Plain? I think some people are trying to have a serious discussion on services we provide that a person can turn to. (I'm ignoring those who thought he had bad manners to do this in public, thus traumatizing others.) Anyhow - without knowing details or his reasoning, just how much do we owe others? Do we have 24/7 walk-in places where a person can go talk, and perhaps get set up with assistance - be it counseling, financial, drug addiction, or whatever? Or do we just have the usual overcrowded clinic where you get on a waiting list, get asked about your ability to pay, and get told a lot of nothing useful? (I'm asking; I honestly don't know.) Should we provide something like this? And if not, then how do we compare something like this to all the programs to help someone who bought more house than they can afford? Where's the justice in the gov't being actively involved with the latter, but putting little effort into helping the down and out?

roger — January 24, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Self published actually. The book is: "Immigration Politics".

You all may not agree with his ideas, but to ridicule one who is so thoughtful, articulate and knowledgeable, only shows your extreme bias.

And nail, your Alinsky approach to discussion, has yeah, reduced you to that of irrelevency. If others do not even see your constant bashing of those you disagree with, then that also is because of extreme bias.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW Smokeys Pizza is number one.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Self published actually. The book is: "Immigration Politics".*

Yes kn_d. The Internet is our friend.

*You all may not agree with his ideas, but to ridicule one who is so thoughtful, articulate and knowledgeable, only shows your extreme bias.*

I'll give ol' lance a second look k_nd. The only window I have as to your taste in posters (weird subject) are your reviews on vanwa's posts as being exemplary screeds and ones to be modeled after.

As for my "extreme bias", awful broad brush. I am bias a bit against folks who grace themselves with a mantle of self importance and point a finger at bias, while fistfuls of thumbs point Right back. Not to mention humorless, unless jesting at something self fabricated for recognition.

But I still love ya man!

*And nail, your Alinsky approach*

One day please share who this Alinski fellow is. Outside of your world this stuff sounds really silly. Seriously.

*has yeah, reduced you to that of irrelevency.* or irrelevancy as it were. Knowing how you love to dot your I's & cross.. well you know.

How can one be reduced to *irrelevency* if one was never relevant?

*If others do not even see your constant bashing of those you disagree with,*

You sound like someone else in here. :) Always the Savior, yet a victim, to always stand in judgement of others. Please feel free to source your accusation as all postings are at your fingertips. Like I've told your female counterpart, just saying it doesn't make it so.

*then that also is because of extreme bias.*

Accusing others who don't share your viewpoint of "extreme bias" is nothing new on your end.

Unfortunately.

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.

Makes you wonder how much was paid out by each state for these ineligibles as well.

...

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.

*HEY NOW* kn_dalai!!! No insulting Daffy Duck. *Thath dithpicable!!!!*

goldenoldie — January 24, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD0o2e...

Take your bow tie off once in awhile k_nd

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Best pizza ever was when husband was stationed in Ca at Castle AFB, little Italian restaurant in Merced, Ca.

Can't beat home made deep dish,... fast in a pinch I'd say Papa Murphy's. They will make it any way you like if ask. Love their chicken garlic pizza.
Pizza Hut is ok if one doesn't want to cook.

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL @ goldenoldie — January 24, 2013 at 6:26 p.m

No love for Daffy...only for Bugs **;)**

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldenoldie...now THAT'S funny. (Sorry if I offended the real Daffy. He deserves better.)

Oh I mean :):):):):):)

I guess that makes everything better.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 6:44 p.m

HUH? What happened to Foghorn Leghorn?

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Best pizza in the local area used to be Mama Maria's off Powell in Portland, they're gone now but the second best is Pizza Caboose in Tigard. The crust just melts in your mouth. When in California, I like Numero Uno, they make a deep dish that's 12 inches but weighs 3 pounds.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Best pizza ever was from Cottage Inn in Ypsilanti, Michigan. Yep. rectangular, deep deep dish pepperoni mushroom, swimming in cheese. 4 pounds. Stuff dreams are made of.
Back then, Domino's just started up there locally. A long time ago.

But for that deeply satisfying greasy feeling, Pizza Hut. Not for best pizza etc, but that grease experience, hot, greasy, dripping. Fulfills that inner need alright. You know, long, tiring, lousy day at work, need for instant gratification with food.

luvithere — January 24, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 24, 2013 at 7:30 p.m

Thanks. I needed that smile.

Mama Maria's was a square pizza cut into strips and super greasy. That and a cold mug of beer, can't be beat.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Exactly Hawk. A very good experience with grease pizza and a beer - can't beat it. Happiness experienced this way offsets any health concerns over a pizza. Neuro transmitter highs and all.

luvithere — January 24, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HUH? What happened to Foghorn Leghorn?

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 6:50 p.m

Foghorn does have a special place in my heart, kn_d, but Bugs, she's above all **;)** Loves me Bugs

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL luvithere and Hawkeye.

When moving to Vancouver, oh so many years ago..there was a pizza restaurant in the Mall..was called Square Pan Pizza.....excellent pizza fix

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've tried Domino's several times, the crust is OK on the edges but mushy in the middle, Papa John's is OK, but I'm having problems with his politics. He plans on cutting hours for his full time employees so he doesn't have to pay healthcare because it's too expensive. But he can give away 2 million pizzas for a promotion. Little Caesars is, well, a $5 pizza. And then we have Rocky's, here in town, which is good but a large starts at $25 and that seems a little high for pizza.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Hawkeye, have you ever tried http://www.leonardospizzeria.com/ on 164th?

Daughter worked there when in high school...dang good pizza with corn meal crust..another excellent pizza fix when needed. Domino's, Papa John's, Round Table...gag

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Quite the pair of old birds!! Foghorn was great and one of my favorites.

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Domino’s and Little Ceasars are adequate considering the low price. But basically like eating some fake cheese on a piece of cardboard. Pizza Hut was good back in the college days. Rocky’s isn’t bad, but not all that great as far as I’m concerned.

But I wonder how many of you have ever actually tried Smokey’s. It is pricey compared to the others, but you get what you pay for. I’m tellin’ ya, give it a try.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_d, have tried it...I'll go with Leonardo's any day

BUT, Smokey's used to have THE BEST potato jojo's, do they still have those?

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Don't know about the potato jojo's Elisi, but they do have a very nice salad bar.

I'm surprised by your luke warm review, or less of Smokeys. I think that pizza is the best. I'll give Leonardo's a try some time.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, Leonardo's is pretty decent pizza. Took the kids a few times for soccer parties. Nice place, decent price, good pizza. So that one works. Just not for the grease fix.

luvithere — January 24, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



kn_d, I just like the cornmeal crusts better, no biggie..everyone has their fav..be boring if we all liked the same thing or there wouldn't be any great chef's in each category of foods..main course, pastry, desserts, etc..

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh and by the way, is the Smokey's in Hazel Dell the only one left that's open?

Orchards, Mill Plain, and the one off St John's(?) is closed.

ELISI — January 24, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


k_nd- I remember one time you spoke of picking up a hitchhiker in Europe. I believe you stated the Netherlands or Belgium. I'm not sure. Your obvious adoration and extreme defense of Lance ... given the name ... your penchant for disdainfully yet exhaustingly critiquing others posts ... is it possible ... seriously ..

**Are you Him?**

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 2:40 p.m.

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don’t know Elisi. Hazel Dell and Orchards yes, but as far as I know those are the only two.

Now, As far as Hazel Dell goes, how about Skipper’s Fish and Chips. No, it’s hardly an upscale establishment, but they’ve always had good eats. The basic Cod fish with baked potato/fries and cold slaw is good. They use to have a number of them around the area, but most closed. I think maybe because of the price, but not sure.

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKmz7s...

Avoidance is futile. :)

It's a simple question.

Taking the "fifth"? :)

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I will answer only out of respect for Lance Sjogren.

I am not Lance Sjogren. I have never been Lance Sjogren. I will never be Lance Sjogren. It is very unlikely that I will ever meet Lance Sjogren.

I am also not you. I have never been you. I will never be you. It is also impossible that I would ever like to meet you.

And it was Norway, not the Netherlands or Belgium.

:):):):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — January 24, 2013 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nail

I am not Lance Sjogren. I have never been Lance Sjogren. I will never be Lance Sjogren. It is very unlikely that I will ever meet Lance Sjogren.

I am also not you. I have never been you. I will never be you. It is also possible that I ***would*** like to meet you.

just saying.

Now back to pizza, I have tried Smokeys a few years back and it was good. I will try Leonardos.

hawkeye — January 24, 2013 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I am not Lance Sjogren.*

Are you sure?

*I have never been Lance Sjogren.*

I don't think you can say that and be absolute.

*I will never be Lance Sjogren.*

What makes you so positive?

*I am also not you.*

That I'm on board with.

*I have never been you.*

Considering the concept of devolution, you can't say that to a certainty.

*I will never be you.*

I'm sorry kn_d. I can't feel your pain not being me because, well, I'm me. I can't take your hurt away.

*It is also impossible that I would ever like to meet you.*

I think I understand k_nd.

God made you. That or you're just some offshoot of an alien nitrogen laced meteoroid, or a million other possibilities... anyway...accept yourself for who you are and don't aspire for the unattainable. Besides, I'm far from perfect.

Avoidance can be a salve for those with irreconcilable self acceptance issues, and understandably realty could very well present you with a proverbially self esteemable, 'fly in the ointment'.

But I do wish you the best always. In spite of yourself! :)

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 11:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nail

*I am not Lance Sjogren. I have never been Lance Sjogren. I will never be Lance Sjogren.*

I'm glad, as there is only one hawkeye.

*I am also not you. I have never been you. I will never be you. It is also possible that I would like to meet you.*

*just saying.*

What a nice thing to to say! Beats the hell out of getting trashed by k_nd & Co.

Much appreciated hawkeye, and *It is also possible that I would like to meet you* also. Let's make it happen sometime!

nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 11:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm really going to pay extra attention to Lance Sjogren's posts from now on. Screeds to be examined. Dude has become a overnight (Norway time:) basement legend!

Lance if you ever read debasement nothing personal in spite of a poster's dramatic antics to make it so. Thank you for your posts, and while I do find many of them hilarious, you offer something unique on the FB side. You give it some sepia tone and imagination. And when it's all said and done, we're all the better for it.

How about posting here once in awhile? I'd like to hear more of your 'the leftist emperor wears no secular clothing' type thing. :)))

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 12:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*It sounds like a great idea though, german lentil soup anyone?*

I'll pass on the lentil, but I've been on an endless search for the perfect meatball sandwich if you know of anywhere.

Perfectly seasoned juicy Italian meatballs dripping with tangy (yet not overwhelming) marinara sauce, smothered in mozzarella on a freshly toasted bun. It's not a difficult recipe yet seldom attainable in local eateries.

One key is not to dry out the meatballs while bonding with the bun.

Outside of a sandwich I'm not sure what that last sentence would mean.

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**'Citizen Koch' Producers Explain Motivation Behind Film**

Carl Deal, director of "Citizen Koch," said his interest in the Koch Brothers and Citizens United began 10 years ago while working on "Fahrenheit 9/11."

The producers behind Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" have now released their own film that explores the influence of money in politics and how it impacts regular Americans.

Carl Deal and Tia Lessin's "Citizen Koch" premiered at the Sundance Film Festival this week. The filmmakers joined HuffPost Live on Thursday to explain why they set out to document the Supreme Court's 2010 ruling in Citizens United v. SEC, which gave corporations the same constitutional rights as citizens.

Lessin said they first got interested in Citizens United 10 years ago when the organization tried to claim that "Fahrenheit 9/11" somehow violated FEC's rules.

"Six years later, when they were trying to position themselves as advocates for free speech, we found that a little strange," Lessin said.

Deal told HuffPost Live's James Poulos that they decided to make a film after watching the instantaneous backlash to President Barack Obama's election, when just a few days after taking office, certain media types were already saying his presidency was doomed for failure.

"This incredibly uncivil discourse that permeated the airways, led by the Glenn Becks of this world, we were curious where this all came from," Deal said. "That's sort of what got us interested in the topic."

"Citizen Koch" especially focuses in on Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's ties to David and Charles Koch and citizens there who feel they are being robbed of their rights.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/citizen-koch-producers-carl-deal-tia-lessin_n_2546586.html

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 25, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.

YESSSSS!!! Someone else on here who practices common sense when it comes to what we put into our stomachs!!!

I'll take you up on a nice steamy bowl of German Lentil Soup...especially in this weather!!! Do you prefer it plain or with a spritz of vinegar or squeeze of lemon on yours???

goldenoldie — January 25, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh my gosh you guys are still talking food! After last night chat, I dreamed of my Grammy's big hot out of wood-stove oven southern biscuits (size of saucers I'm sure for us as kids) and breakfast chocolate....yuummmmmmmmmm yummmmmmmmmm

ELISI — January 25, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK ELISI, now you've done it. I'm missing my Wife's Aunt Ruby's huge Georgia breakfast. Whenever we would visit, we would wake up to the smell of everything cooking. She would make biscuits in a wooden bowl, by hand because "that's the only way you can get the feel for the dough", and then put them in the freezer before cooking them. I don't know why but it's a rule. Then there would be coffee, three types of eggs, three types of pork, a stack of toast and homemade hash browns. Just more food than an army could eat.

Sometimes I really miss the South, especially Cracker Barrel.

hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Medicare improperly paid $120M to ineligibles

This over 3 years. Medicare paid out $523B in 2011, so $40M/yr is .0076%.

mrd — January 25, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, the "the freezer, refrigerator" trick is for the butter, lard one uses in the dough..if cold when goes into oven makes the biscuit/cookies more moist and fluffy.

Wooden bowl is used cause most yeast type breads if mixed in metal bowls will kill the yeast.

Oh and don't forget the dinner plate size flapjacks at breakfast too!!!

ELISI — January 25, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 24, 2013 at 11:43 p.m. and others.

Just more nonsense.

It’s rather strange how you can make condescending remarks about Penny or Lance, or me for that matter, and that’s alright…but when I make condescending remarks about you, then that is cause for umbrage. You know all about Alinsky. You play right out of his game book every day. All day. Day after day, after day, after day….

Talk about playing the victim. :):):):):):):)

Bias affects perception, and extreme bias affects perception extremely.

:):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — January 25, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As for my "extreme bias", awful broad brush. I am bias a bit against folks *who grace themselves with a mantle of self importance* and *point a finger at bias*, while fistfuls of thumbs point Right back. Not to mention humorless, unless jesting at something self *fabricated for recognition*

This is just the type of comment or comments that I saw leading up to the presidential election of 08 with Obama... He has continued his broad stroke painting all the way through the last election.. Out of touch Romney yet we have Kerry as new Sec of State...This brother is how the left works in order to divide our country.. Tax the rich more and give it too the government to dole out they way "THEY" see fit... How do you like your paychecks shrinking, how is your cost of healthcare this year... It only hurts the poor and middle class by squeezing more out of there monthly paychecks...

On the food side....The south really does produce some very good stuff...for good fast food, Shooney's if there still around.. Just don't go there between 4-6pm.....feeding time at the zoo...

vanwadreamer — January 25, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Talk about Glenn Beck.

Have you people ever listened to Mike Malloy? I’ve tried a couple of times, but it’s more than difficult.

The last time I tried to listen, he came to his program unprepared for the issue that he began talking about, which he, himself acknowledged. That man is absolutely filled with hate, and makes no bones about it. I mean hate.

I was going to post a YouTube video, but there are just too many of this guy going berserk to pick only one. Nothing at all entertaining, educational or thoughtful in his program. Just a boring, angry Leftist, who talks and talks and talks, pretty much about his hate.

kn_dalai — January 25, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Any thoughts?***

Voters still like the idea of replacing the federal income tax with a national sales tax, even though they aren’t so sure it's a better way to raise money for the government.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 45% of American Adults favor a proposal to eliminate the federal income tax and replace it with a national sales tax. Thirty-four percent (34%) are opposed, while 21% are undecided.

hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I am no mathematician, but..sit down, add up all the tax you pay..
1.Property
2.Sales
3.Excise
4.Income
5.Local/state/city on services such as electricity, water, phone/cells, trash
6. etc etc...

Several years ago I added ours up at one time and we were paying out about 56% in taxes over all. That was just for personal, not counting all the different business taxes we pay out. So to go with a national sales tax, may not be the answer.

ELISI — January 25, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Medicare improperly paid $120M to ineligibles*

*This over 3 years. Medicare paid out $523B in 2011, so $40M/yr is .0076%.*

mrd — January 25, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Nice stats mrd. Thanks for lending perspective.

---

kn_d @ 10:01- After awhile your cries of victimization not only come across as ridiculous, but small minded as well.

This Alinsky thing is a crack up! :)) You radical wingers really don't get it do you? This stuff Rush, Hannity and your right wing blogs push are as absurd as they are amusing! You live in the past fearing change as to what lies ahead. *This Alinsky/Socialist/Communist/*throw in the latest RW talking point, is as nutty as it is amusing! On that level your comment is much appreciated. :)

At this point I believe most citizens patience have run out with regards to those who live in fear of the unknown and progress, as well as those who wish to enact laws to move our Country backward. Conservative hand holding needs to take a back seat as it is getting in the way of moving...FORWARD. :)

*Bias affects perception, and extreme bias affects perception extremely.*

What is the other silly phrase you use? The one you ripped off the internet and were called on by another poster? Anyway, never mind kn_d.

But just because you accuse me of nonsense doesn't mean you need to offer your own.

You rarely bring an issue to the basement table. Just snipe and cheap shot those with differing opinions and attempt (although in unintended feeble fashion. No harm no foul?:) to deride others.

Just a suggestion. (I'm in no way dictating. Man these eggshells are brittle) Try offering up a subject of national/local importance which means something to you and debate it.

Just trying to re-shift your focus in a positive way.

You seem to be at odds with...yourself.

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This conversation should be addressed more often on the National stage. Many times it's the *elephant in the room* when discussing social issues and religious freedoms. Religious extremism/intolerance and how it affects society/government's ability to function for the common good has never been more prevalent than it is today.

**Religious Liberty Double Standards Indicated In New Poll**

While these Christians are particularly concerned that religious freedoms are being eroded in this country, "they also want Judeo-Christians to dominate the culture," said Kinnamon.

"They cannot have it both ways," he said. "This does not mean putting Judeo-Christian values aside, but it will require a renegotiation of those values in the public square as America increasingly becomes a multi-faith nation."

Religious freedom has become an increasingly important political issue within the last year, as Republican candidates hammered President Obama for a contraception mandate that many conservatives feel tramples on the religious freedom of employers who must cover birth control in their health plans.

The poll of 1,008 adults showed that 29 percent of respondents were "very" concerned that religious liberties are under threat, and 22 percent "somewhat" concerned. Evangelicals were the religious group most likely to be concerned, at **71 percent.**

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/religious-liberty-double-standards_n_2537969.html

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 11:59 a.m.

You had better take a good look at yourself. Constantly linking to Leftist rags and ranting against others, is hardly bringing an issue to the table. It was basil and then you that began this thing about other posters. That is also hardly bringing an issue to the table.

I thought the study done by the two professors about the bias in media, was by itself, of greater substance than anything at all you ever link to.

And mrd, you really should cite your sources.

kn_dalai — January 25, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, I forgot:):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — January 25, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsewHq...

I try...I really do.

:))

:)

:

.

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Precious memories...*

**Mitt Romney’s campaign ended, but he’s not getting out of politics.**

Romney told top Washington bundlers, donors and senior campaign leadership in a meeting Friday morning that he would help out GOP candidates for governor in 2013, during the upcoming midterm elections and the 2016 presidential race, according to two people who attended the meeting.

Romney also made clear his ambition for elected office has ended, according to another source present.

Romney has stayed out of the limelight since Election Day, leaving many to wonder if he would keep a lower profile or even leave politics all together.

“We lost, but I’m not going away,” Romney told the crowd, according to a person who attended the meeting. “I will continue to help.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/mitt-romney-in-washington-im-not-going-away-86741.html#ixzz2J1cSMz7Q

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama I guess the Constitution does also apply to you.. This president is awash in snake oil trying to circumvent the constituion and congress by all and every means....

A federal court decision that Obama's move to bypass the Senate to fill job posts on the NLRB was unconstitutional could shut down the board and calls into question other appointments.

He is now going nationwide to drum up support for his gun control legislation instead of taking it to congress where his party would take huge hits even possibly losing the senate if he did at the mid term elections.... So much for Bipartisanship...

vanwadreamer — January 25, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 25, 2013 at 8:38 a.m., hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 9:10 a.m....

Mmm, Mmm!!! Fluffy buttermilk biscuits made from scratched, baked till golden with a bit of a crispy bottom edge...topped with homemade breakfast sausage and gravy topping...

Sounds good, eh!!! It's what we just happened to have this morning! Nothing better than those home made biscuits!!! Rarely if any leftovers for some reason...8))

goldenoldie — January 25, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


...and that's "made from scratch,..."

sorry about that...a download slowed my system and kept blocking any corrections I made before posting.

goldenoldie — January 25, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Sometimes I really miss the South...." -- hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 9:10 a.m.

How about some cracklins, hot from the skillet, some cornbread, and a nice cold bottle of Dr. Pepper?

roger — January 25, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In my never ending quest to understand republican pain and what causes it, call this a post of empathy. And as far as I can tell the Larry Flynt rumors are unfounded and completely without merit.

**Sarah Palin Out At Fox News**

Sarah Palin has parted ways with Fox News, multiple outlets wrote on Friday.

Real Clear Politics was the first to report that Palin — who reportedly signed a $1 million-a-year contract with the network in 2010 — will not be renewing it. The New York Times' Brian Stelter later confirmed the news with Fox News.

A "source close to Palin" told RCP that she had turned down a new offer. Fox News merely told the New York Times in a statement that it wished her the best.

The news is not very surprising, but it does highlight, as much as anything, Palin's diminished relevance. Reports about the increasingly icy relationship between Palin and Fox News CEO Roger Ailes have been circulating for years. *He has mocked her in public, and is said to have privately labeled her "stupid." Meanwhile, her public profile has waned as the years since her bid for the vice presidency grind on.*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/sarah-palin-fox-news-out_n_2553421.html

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*They have learned NOTHING!* *If not willing to abide by the will of the people, what about separation of church & state?* *Any kind of "spiritual cleansing" should start with exorcising extremist ideologues next election.*

**John Boehner: Ending Abortion Is 'One Of Our Most Fundamental Goals This Year'**

Several lawmakers made it out to the protest to address the crowd in person. Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.) touted a bill she recently introduced that would strip Title X family planning funds from Planned Parenthood, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) delivered a sermon that called for a "spiritual cleansing."

"Our nation is adrift, adrift in a wilderness where right and wrong have become subservient to a hedonism of the moment," Paul said. "I believe our country is in need of a spiritual cleansing."

He added, "We much preach a gospel so full of compassion, a gospel so full of justice that it cannot be resisted. Then and only then will the law again protect the innocent."

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/john-boehner-abortion-march-for-life_n_2552597.html

nailingit — January 25, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal



goldenoldie — January 25, 2013 at 2:40 p.m

Golden I love those saucer size biscuits with breakfast chocolate!!

For those who have never had it, it's a hot chocolate syrup to dip biscuit pieces in. Fantastic for breakfast and oh so num-goodie for a treat on a cold winters afternoon after playing in the snow.

1 1/2 c sugar
1/4 c all purpose flour
1/2 c cocoa, unsweetened
2 c milk
1/4 c butter
1 tsp pure vanilla extract


1.In n medium size saucepan, mix dry ingredients to break up flor and cocoa lumps.
2.Add milk and cook on medium/high heat until mixture becomes thick and bubbly.
3.Remove from heat and add butter and vanilla.
4.Serve over scratch buttermilk biscuits (no canned or frozen biscuits please- that would be a southern sin haha!)


ELISI — January 25, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Don't care for chocolate too much, I like syrup on mine or jam or sausage gravy.

hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


speaking of Southern food, I was born and raised in Georgis. Pecan pie, sausage gravy, and biscuits were unreal-as in good. My granny made it and it was perfect. She took the combs out of beehives, mixed it with her butter, and that's what us kids ate on our biscuits, bread, peanut butter, et all. I miss that 'til this day.

Fried chicken or fish-forget it. My grandfather would take me to his "fishin' hole" and Granny would fry up his filleted bream. Miss it already. Throw in some hush puppies.....

Oh well, Friday's pizza nite. One's gotta do what one's gotta do.......

I will try Elisi's chocolate thing-if it's chocolate, it must be good. Like granny's red velvet chocolate cake.....

mrd — January 25, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Onion strikes again.

A radio host fell for a fake story from the satirical website that showed a doctored image of a “drone flyover” on President Barack Obama’s inauguration day.

The post on the Facebook page of KFAI host Andy Driscoll was surfaced by City Pages, which pointed out that Driscoll, who hosts “TruthToTell” on the community radio station in St. Paul, Minn., had written "ugly" underneath an image that showed what appeared to be three remote-controlled drones hovering ominously over the enormous crowds.

Driscoll's posting sparked a long comment thread, including this from Kristin Tapper: “1984 is no longer fiction.”

Driscoll seemed to agree: “Never seen three in a cluster formation like that, but they're obviously scanning the crowd for potential trouble—all monitored by a site in Las Vegas.”

But even when Driscoll learned the story was fake, he argued that it felt true: “There's a reason the Onion can make satire out of this photo, which was obviously doctored to give us a laugh (ceremonial drone flyover, indeed! HA!), is that satire is a stretch of the truth."

The radio host shouldn't feel bad about being fooled; after all, the Onion got China's main newspaper, People's Daily Online, to run a story announcing that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un had been named Sexiest Man Alive.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/radio-host-tricked-onion-story-drone-flyover-obama-134500261.html

hawkeye — January 25, 2013 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Professor Lou's Press Talk class: Fairness is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to public vs private pensions, I guess.

This excerpt from ethicist Judy Nadler provides the best even-handed commentary on this emotion-charged subject, in my opinion:

**All sides of this issue make arguments based on the ethical principle of fairness — but they all choose their own definitions of fairness.

What might bring the sides together is a recognition that blame for the current state of affairs must be shared by everyone — government officials who offered generous benefits as an alternative to raising salaries or as a recruitment tool (and as a means of securing political support), public employees who ran up regular and overtime pay before retirement to boost their payouts, unions who refused to consider any changes in pensions to accommodate new economic realities, and citizens who would not vote to tax themselves adequately to cover the rising costs of the services they demanded.

Because we share this responsibility, the fair approach to pension reform will also share the pain. No one is going to like the solution to this problem. In fact, the best solution will be characterized by the fact that all sides are unhappy with some of its provisions.
There is only one solution that is ethically unacceptable: dumping the problem on the next generation — forcing our own children to pay for our failure to act.
**

For her complete piece on Santa Clara U's website, see this link:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/focusareas/government_ethics/state-pensions.html

manthou — January 26, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Normally I read Lou's column. Not this morning. I feel he's worn out that "class" thing. It's old shtick, man. You'd think the editor could come up with another gag to engage the readers. Danni and Noodles are stale, man. Lou's continuous comparison of public and private sector jobs is stale.

I bailed on the second paragraph.

Drift — January 26, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The 'I've got mine screw everyone else' ugly strain of conservatism strikes again. Pinching every penny from services which benefit youthful activities, tomorrow's generation and the low income elderly at the expense of saving themselves a buck. These are the people who enjoy the parks.

Old n ugly. Most likely this will cost a job or two. And here I thought Madore promised to increase CC employment. Yet another measure to reduce jobs. I suppose that's okay because it's "evil" government providing work.

How about Madore using the money he/his company saves in corporate tax breaks and funnel the funds into Parks & Rec.

When's the last time the Madore's of the world took their children to a park, or paid a small fee for upkeep?

Park free but bring your lawn mower and plunger.

**Madore sees way to cancel park fees**

*Commissioner says it's possible to cut $400,000 from parks department*

Clark County Commissioner David Madore says the county has found a way to cut about $400,000 from the parks department budget it shares with the city of Vancouver, and will be announcing the elimination of parking fees at county parks as a result within the month.

Madore, who made the declaration that county parks parking fees were heading out the door on a local radio show Thursday, **said he doesn't have details of how the money will be saved, deferring to county staffers.**

**"One thing about being a commissioner is you can't get in the weeds and get in the details," Madore said after the radio interview.**

Earlier this month, Madore asked staff to identify areas where the county could save money without interrupting necessary service to the county parks.

Staffers say the bulk of the savings could come from reducing the county's contribution to the Vancouver-Clark Parks & Recreation department, a city-county department that plans and maintains parks across the county.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The bold print indicate lessons taught by Paul Ryan.

No details. Conservatives will trust me. Just do it.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"One thing about being a commissioner is you can't get in the weeds and get in the details," Madore said after the radio interview.

What does that mean?

hawkeye — January 26, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- Maybe Madore plans to use part of the $400,000 to hire a personal spokesperson.

Maybe he just wants to reenforce the idea citizens can't trust government workers, and is doing his best to prove it.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Bill Maher & Howard Dean Defend Obama Inauguration From GOP Panelists (VIDEO)**

A republican must see.

Political correctness takes a .. right turn.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No, seriously. I don't understand what that statement means. To me, it's like a foreign language or something. It makes no sense.

Somebody please explain it to me.

hawkeye — January 26, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH3Xnq...

Is someone trying to turn Vancouver into his own little RomneyWorld?

Who are we to question a king?

Conservatives are at war with America. Destroying government and reducing us to a theocratic society grounded and governed in & by Christian faith based leaders is a Conservative's utopia. A dream. As well as preaching a doctrine of mutual dependancy and faith as a bastion against progression and free thought.

One needs to look no further than your neighborhood Christian Academy, the severe uptick in religious based home schooling, and our radical right Congress who are constantly trying to infuse Christian based tenets into lawmaking, only to be shot down later in Federal courts as unconstitutional.

Elections have consequences.

Sometimes it's a millstone around the neck of it's people.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal




Oh my LOLOLOLOLING very loudly...

If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...**it that comes up...

*"Conservatives are at war with America. Destroying government and reducing us to a theocratic society grounded and governed in & by Christian faith based leaders is a Conservative's utopia."*

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The decision is novel and unprecedented," Carney said. "It contradicts 150 years of practice by Democratic and Republican administrations."

Under the court's decision, 285 recess appointments made by presidents between 1867 and 2004 would be invalid.

gotta wonder why the R's would pursure this after 146 years. Oh, yea, it's probably them showing their love for Obama. BTW, who was doing the appointments in 2004? Seems it was OK with the R's then, I wonder what changed in 9 years. Oh yea, the party in the White House.

mrd — January 26, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye and Nails,

Vancouver reduced their Parks spending last year. Subsequently, The Columbian recommended a No vote for the Vancouver Parks Prop 1 because they believed this was put on the ballot to allow City Council to move money that should be dedicated to Parks to somewhere else. Tim Leavitt maintains he'll find money for light rail O&M; funding somewhere else. David Madore is shutting off one of those options.

At least, that's what I believe is motivating Madore with this one.

Also, someone noted in the comments that they're spending more to collect the parking/use fees than they're taking in. If that's even close to being true - maybe this is a good reason to cut this out and make them free?

roger — January 26, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Columbian, you posted/printed a story about the mass March for gun-control in DC, where is the story about the mass March for Life that was also held in DC?

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI @ 1:49- At first I thought I had a soul brother like k_nd does lance. Think alike and read alike. But when I searched...

Please give your source for *If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...**it that comes up...*

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


:)........sigh........:))

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The weeds and details comment, is awkwardly put, but I think it is explained by the previous sentence in the article about deferring to the county staff for the details. He recently said he wanted to review the county’s accounts payables. I have no idea what’s become of that, but as usual, he was heavily criticized by his detractors on FB, in this case, for stepping into others’ place in county government. I guess if he wants to dig into the details… he’s wrong, and if he wants to defer to county staff for those details…he’s also wrong.

Your idea of cutting off funds to Vancouver for CRC is interesting Roger. I don’t know about that, but you may recall the videos of Lou and D. Madore a few weeks ago. He addressed the parks issue and stated a figure of $10 to $25 for business to process checks. Seems high to me, but in any event, we’re talking about a $3 dollar fee for county parks.

What isn’t addressed is what will become of future parks currently in the planning stage. Funny how a few years ago, it seemed to be the Lefties that disliked user fees and the Right which wanted user fees. Things seem to be just the opposite now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owurw2...

kn_dalai — January 26, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You haven't a clue..

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger-*Also, someone noted in the comments that they're spending more to collect the parking/use fees than they're taking in.*

That needs to be sourced from whoever said it.

What then, let our parks turn into crap holes? Let our property values go to hell? Aren't we supposed to take pride in our community?

My God I've never seen so many organized penny pinchers in my life. If only we had a fraction of this so-called conservative energy when Bush/Congress put two wars and a 500 Billion $$$ drug plan on the books without paying for it, we wouldn't be talking about this.

But deficits don't matter" said Dick.

Must have been that guy who loaded up the Kool-aid with dark brown food coloring. But even though we're paying for it now, I guess that's another story.

Regardless of motivation, it's contemptible to undermine/subvert governmental process in this way.

What happened to honesty, transparency, and just a general sense of fairness for Christ's sake?

Comment @ 9:47 to include the extremely vocal anti-anything that might raise their taxes in spite of much needed improvement for now and the future crowd.

I understand having reasonable debate, but the comments, the spirit, this crane lady, the methodology...I've been pushed pro light because of this. Pro light rail....pro BRT...pro crc and whatever the hell else.

I'll probably never use these services. Any of them. But I understand the need for progress in this area.

It's interesting to witness the lack of push back from conservatives. It's the ends justify the means trip. Win at any cost.

King David has arisen and his followers bow.

Wait a minute...I'd better google this first to see....

---

ELISI- Than give us all a clue and back up what you implied.

To repeat:

Oh my LOLOLOLOLING very loudly...

**If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...**it that comes up...**

"Conservatives are at war with America. Destroying government and reducing us to a theocratic society grounded and governed in & by Christian faith based leaders is a Conservative's utopia."

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

*ELISI @ 1:49- At first I thought I had a soul brother like k_nd does lance. Think alike and read alike. But when I searched...*

*Please give your source for If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...it that comes up...*

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I understand this light rail thing affects differing opinions on both sides of the aisle. But the vocal/vitriolic force behind much rhetoric seems to be coming from the so called "fiscal conservatives".

Many of them baggers who talk crap about Obummer takin' their guns n' religion.

Then there's the Ron Paul crowd. Oh, I just mentioned them. But they have a "higher" purpose I suppose. I think many are waking up to this fraud.

Just an ugly bias backward strain of thought seems to be the driving force.

That and people who base decisions on what primarily affects them and no one else.

At least that's understandable.

---

Got that Google link yet ELISI?

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Can you think for yourself? Do you REALLY think that every single conservative leaning be it Demo or Repub thinks exactly the same as what is reported by the media on each issue?
Come on man, think, do each and every one of the liberal Demo and more lib leaning Repubs think identical as what the media spins out? Stop reading the garbage that is being spoon fed to you, talk to a real person how they feel about issues. Educate yourself with what you learn from a real life person, face to face not some write in a mag, newspaper, blog..etc.

Remember what you and some thought of spins spewed while Clinton was in office?? Well, my basement friend what makes you think the same isn't true what is now? People who end up allowing, yes, I said allowing the media to form opinion for them, by what is spun I really do feel sorry for.

Do you actually think you are being told the truth in each thing reported? SO much that is being withheld from us. so much is fed to get the end results that higher power wants. The media is like a child, comes home tells just enough info to raise the bottoms of parents off the chair. When the parents takes time to find all the info, they in the end find the child only told enough truth to escape punishment themselves.

My grandmother always said..."Only believe what you see with your own eyes, hear with your own ears anything else is hearsay"

Husband says dinner is done, then movie before bed..

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Husband says dinner is done, then movie before bed..

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

***Living on the edge, dare to dream***

hawkeye — January 26, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- My grandmother always said..."**Only believe what you see with your own eyes**, hear with your own ears anything else is hearsay"...

**Do you see this?**

Oh my LOLOLOLOLING very loudly...

If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...**it that comes up...

"Conservatives are at war with America. Destroying government and reducing us to a theocratic society grounded and governed in & by Christian faith based leaders is a Conservative's utopia."

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

*My grandmother always said..."Only believe what you see with your own eyes, hear with your own ears anything else is hearsay"*

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

My grandmother always said people who assert your thoughts or writing aren't your own and they are bull, and then imply they were not only copied, but directed people to a search engine for proof, were charged with being responsible to add clarity when asked what site to search for.

She said... "ask politely for evidence". Please see...

*[Please give your source for If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...it that comes up..].*

She then said when people repeatedly obfuscate from answering a simple question regarding evidence to validate their assertions in said matter, then use strawman arguments mixed with "down home granny talk" without addressing anything substantive, either on topic or off, she said "It's some lame attempt to undermine and discredit your point of view".

She said..."I shouldn't trust folks who go out of their way to twist, distort and fabricate another's intentions or words because those same folk don't like what those words have to say".

She said a bit more. But for the sake of being reasonable in this format I'll keep those gems to myself.

And please, save your "I sound upset" and other attempted small minded digs for another time. They're too predictable at this point.

But not one to be as rude as to say, 'you haven't a clue', I'll provide you one and save a paraphrase.

Google- conservative poster+granny says+obfuscate+strawman+multiple persona+make a big deal out of the last thing+movie before bed+bad manners+lock up

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails - If you'd been paying a little more attention to the CRC debate, you'd realize there really isn't a political party basis to it. Rather, those in favor are a hodgepodge of land developers and business owners who stand to profit from LRT, and environmentalists who want cars off the road. The opposition covers a wide spectrum of backgrounds, and have differing degrees of opposition. Some want a new I5 bridge, but don't want LRT. Others (to include me) don't even want a new bridge; we'd rather try to force the issue of more bridges. And still others are opposed due to the tolling - they will most likely be steep, and many people can't afford the grand or more it'll cost to commute to/from their jobs P'Town.

roger — January 26, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-qd19...

roger- *Nails - If you'd been paying a little more attention to the CRC debate, you'd realize there really isn't a political party basis to it.*

I understand this light rail thing affects differing opinions on both sides of the aisle. But the vocal/vitriolic force behind much rhetoric seems to be coming from the so called "fiscal conservatives".

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.

*The opposition covers a wide spectrum of backgrounds*

No argument here! Here's some footage shot at a CRC anti-boondoggle party.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAM8IL...

A future Clark County Commissioner's meeting?

Are we allowed some Q & A time?

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqAEGj...

Also rumor has it KD will institute a dress code for female meeting attendees.

When they're allowed to attend.

This file was handed to me in the dark of night. Someone claiming to have behind the scenes footage of the last County Commission Newbie Rehearsal Meeting.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself.

~Potter Stewart~

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Apologies for no linkage @ Political correctness takes a .. right turn.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 10:26 a.m.

Amended.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/26/bill-maher-and-howard-dean-defend-obama-inauguration-speech_n_2558111.html?utm_hp_ref=comedy

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well good night nailingit...sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite..LOL

You do make me laugh, so easy rattled..nighty night **;)**

ELISI — January 26, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.

So if I understand this "woman" correctly, women are supposed to cover up "intimate parts" of their bodies, is that right?

If that is the case, shouldn't they wear veils?

hawkeye — January 26, 2013 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*so easy rattled.*

@ 7:23-And please, save your "I sound upset" and other attempted small minded digs for another time. They're too predictable at this point.

So much for that idea.

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You have a point hawkeye. I'm sure much of this mirrors Sharia law. Amazing conservatives aren't able to draw the same conclusion. That or they don't care knowing they serve the one and only "true" God.

@ 1:23-"It's a desire to serve others, particularly men."

Sometimes the funniest things in life are realities!

This crap must drive independent free thinking women nuts!

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 9:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgFWtK...

Satanic Smurfs! Instructions on how to heal a TV set! Some weird lookin' dude wants to get intimate with God and have his hair stroked!

Strange but true!

Conservatism unabashed!

Holy circuit board!

I wonder what ticket they vote every election?!

nailingit — January 26, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Facts that show no matter which side of the fence you sit on, if you're a jerk, you are a jerk.

**Employment Records Reveal ‘Worst Bosses’ in Congress**

*An analysis of a decade of pay records discloses the congressional offices with the highest turnover rates — or as The Washington Times calls them, the ones serving the “worst bosses on Capitol Hill.”
The Times found 27 members who lost an average of at least one-third of their staff per year over a period of four years or more.
“Some members of Congress have developed reputations as nightmares to work for and even have a majority of their staff members leave after less than one year,” according to the Times.
Of the 27 members of Congress with the highest turnover rates, 18 were Democrats. Only two were senators, according to the Times analysis spanning 2001 through 2011.
The “worst boss,” based on staff turnover rate, was Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, a Texas Democrat who is still in office. Her average annual turnover rate was 54 percent, and one year all but six of her 23 staffers departed. She was also voted the “meanest member” of the House in a survey of staffers by Washingtonian magazine last year.
Virginia Republican George Allen had the highest turnover rate in the Senate during his tenure in the Upper House, 34 percent.
Close behind Allen at 33 percent was Sen. Chuck Hagel, the Nebraska Republican who left office in 2009 and has been nominated by President Obama to be the next secretary of defense. In 2005, 20 of 51 staffers left his office, and some later said Hagel would berate staffers for “imagined disloyalty.”
No. 2 overall on the Times’ list was Rep. Betty Sutton, with a turnover rate of 48 percent. Former staffers have called the Ohio Democrat, who lost her re-election bid last year, “harsh.”
Next was Rep. Michele Bachmann, the Minnesota Republican who ran for president last year. Her average turnover rate was 46 percent, spiking to 66 percent in 2008.
She was followed by former Reps. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., and Hilda Solis, D-Calif., both with a 44 percent rate. When Solis assumed the post of secretary of labor in 2009, she vowed to improve working conditions for all Americans.
Rounding out the “Top 10” were Reps. Jane Harman, D-Calif., at 43 percent; Tim Murphy, R-Pa. (42 percent); Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash. (39 percent); Juanita Millender-McDonald, D-Calif. (39 percent); and Jon Porter, R-Nev. (38 percent).
Millender-McDonald once fired an aide for leaving a box of candy on her chair, according to the Times.
Only Murphy and McMorris Rodgers are still in office.*

ELISI — January 27, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now on the other hand if you are considered a "good boss"

At the other end of the staff turnover spectrum, the best members of Congress to work for, with annual turnover rates of only about 11 percent, are Republican Sen. John Thune of South Dakota and three Democratic House members: James McGovern of Massachusetts, Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, and Collin Peterson of Minnesota.

ELISI — January 27, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Morning Elisi, thanks for pointing out how a jerk is a jerk no matter what side he/she is on. Appreciated here. In our sharply divided political environment we should not forgot that both sides can include morons. While I might disagree with 99% of Republican policy, that doesn't mean I need to always agree with the Dems either. I don't.

luvithere — January 27, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


[Someone][1] was worried about 120 million in three years.... How about 500 million?

**Foul Play in the Senate**
by Bill Moyers and Michael Winship

The Times story described how Amgen got a huge hidden gift from unnamed members of Congress and their staffers. They slipped an eleventh hour loophole into the New Year’s Eve deal that kept the government from going over the fiscal cliff. When the sun rose in the morning, there it was, a richly embroidered loophole for Amgen that will cost taxpayers a cool half a billion dollars.

“Two guys nurtured at public expense, paid as public servants, disappear through the gold-plated revolving door of Congress and presto, return as money changers in the temple of crony capitalism.”

Amgen is the world’s largest biotechnology firm, a drug maker that sells a variety of medications. The little clause secretly sneaked into the fiscal cliff bill gives the company two more years of relief from Medicare cost controls for certain drugs used by patients who are on kidney dialysis, including a pill called Sensipar, manufactured by Amgen.

The provision didn’t mention Amgen by name, but according to reporters Lipton and Sack, the news that it had been tucked into the fiscal cliff deal “was so welcome, that the company’s chief executive quickly relayed it to investment analysts.” Tipping them off, it would seem, to a jackpot in the making.

Amgen has 74 lobbyists on its team in Washington and lobbied hard for that loophole, currying favor with friends at the White House and on Capitol Hill. The Times reporters traced its “deep financial and political ties” to Baucus, McConnell and Hatch, “who hold heavy sway over Medicare payment policy.”

All three have received hefty campaign donations from the company whose bottom line mysteriously just got padded at taxpayer expense. Since 2007, Amgen employees and its political action committee have contributed nearly $68,000 to Senator Baucus, $73,000 to Senator McConnell’s campaigns, and $59,000 to Senator Hatch.

And lo and behold, among those 74 Amgen lobbyists are the former chief of staff to Senator Baucus and the former chief of staff to Senator McConnell. You get the picture: Two guys nurtured at public expense, paid as public servants, disappear through the gold-plated revolving door of Congress and presto, return as money changers in the temple of crony capitalism.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/01/25-8

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/21/open-forum-jan-21-27/#c218153

mr_basil_seal — January 27, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Pharmaceutical lobbying '98 thru '12. Amgen is #5.
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indusclient.php?id=H04

I thought the adage was, "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see."

But, what'a-I-know?

Drift — January 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.

That adage is basically an attempt to disqualify empirical evidence.......

Hopefully most here will get the humor in the title:

**Our Dumb Democracy: Why the Untied States of Stupid Still Reins Supreem**

by John Atcheson

Astoundingly, Mr. Obama – the supreme pragmatist and compromiser – gave an inaugural address that was as strong a defense of progressivism as we have seen in thirty years. Yet it will take more than words to make a difference. As the echoes of his speech fade, we are still faced with ultra-rightwing terrorists threatening to hold the US economy hostage to a set of demands that the majority of Americans disagree with.

These are the same loonies who deny global warming; the same ones who set up a museum showing prehistoric humans walking with dinosaurs; the same ones who think the answer to gun violence is more guns; the same ones who voted against relief for victims of Sandy … the same ones who want to shove ultrasound instruments into women’s vaginas and tell people who they can and cannot marry while simultaneously shouting to the rooftops about freedom and values.

Yeah. Their freedoms, their beliefs and their values, please. All others step to the back of the bus, or consult Leviticus. You know, that font of ancient wisdom that tells us when and how to stone our neighbor’s daughter.

Want to know how our political discourse got so mind-numbingly stupid?

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/01/22

mr_basil_seal — January 27, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


While I might disagree with 99% of Republican policy, that doesn't mean I need to always agree with the Dems either. I don't.

luvithere — January 27, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.

You're more liberal than I! I'd go closer to 95%.

In spite of the straw man propped up @ 5:59, I don't think constituents from either party agree with either side 100%.

I think many Dems take umbrage with this admin on many levels. Foreign and domestic policy to include myself.

*thanks for pointing out how a jerk is a jerk no matter what side he/she is on. Appreciated here.* .. *both sides can include morons*

Don't you think embracing and promoting this type of labeling, jerks and morons, and feeding into the spirit which drives it contributes to "our sharply divided political environment"?

And at the forum level, only two or three resort to this type of labeling/name calling, mostly when void of any other rebuttal and it's never healthy.

Not trying to go PC or start something here but...(don't beat me, I'm fragile and still recovering from remembering grandma so vividly :)

When we start getting personal, policy, motivations, legislative history etc. gets lost and obstructs somewhat from seeing the larger picture.

Not to mention a degree of civility.

I think that train of thought works on many levels.

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m

Which would you be more inclined to believe, what you see and hear face to face or hearsay from others?

ELISI — January 27, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


another "pot-kettle" moment..

*sigh*

hmmm "Pandora/Love on ice" show is looking more appealing..every second..

Have a great morning all!

ELISI — January 27, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 10:20- Excellent!

After four years of GOP obstructionism exhibiting qualities as mentioned in said article, I was hoping for real filibuster change. At least the 41 rule if not the talking/holding the floor type. I understand the big picture reasoning for keeping the status quo, but I'm afraid to a large degree a 2nd term progressive agenda will be hamstrung.

As for media, I hope this is addressed and we see some change in main stream journalism. Tyrannical rule is easier to understand & oppose if laid bare to the public at large. Slanted/sloppy reporting is it's own wrench in good governing.

From the article:

*[Well, we can start with this little fact: The press is so enamored with “balance” that they’ll treat even the most ignorant, shallow, fatuous movement – a movement composed of the selfish, the self-obsessed, the angry, the bigoted, and the blissfully ignorant – as if it were a serious movement.]*

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.

Appreciate the link. What a monster of an industry! One takeaway I found interesting is that the number of lobbyists have been *reduced* by 25% in the last five years. That's gotta be a good thing.

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


From THE COLUMBIAN, Jan 27:

"...Following that incident, the first peaceful night's sleep she had came after her brother taught her how to use a gun. These days, Herrera Beutler and her husband, Daniel Beutler, own multiple guns, including one with an extended ammunition clip.

"It's a home-protection device," she said....

-----------------------------------------------

Rep. Herrera-Beutler:

I would suggest that the best "home-protection device" would be a security alarm, and possibly a shotgun to convince a potential home invader that you won't miss with an errant aim. Please remember that when the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution was installed, the "home-protection device" of the day was a musket, not a semi-automatic rifle with an extended ammunition clip.

- Truly universal background checks are essential for ALL gun sales, not just at licensed gun dealers.

- Improved funding for services to mentally ill citizens is also essential, not just registering anyone seeking mental health services as not-legitimate to purchase a "home-protection device."

- Outlawing manufacture of large capacity ammunition clips is essential. Nobody needs twenty or more cartridges to stop a burglar or hunt a deer. Every hunter I know claims they've never gotten more that one or two shots at anything they were hunting.

I would hate to see you becoming a dupe for the gun manufacture industry. Receiving campaign support from their de-facto lobbyist, the NRA, puts you in jeopardy of being exactly that.

craig_brown — January 27, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Actually, if you want vitriol, read the posts by the people who don't like Madore.

There's also some reserved for Mayor Tim, though most is fairly civil (except from the guy with the guitar player atavar - can't tell if it's Jeff Beck or Ronny Wood - damned Brits all look alike). Still, Leavitt ran and won as a token Repub, with support from Dino Rossi. Then he gets in office and does a 180. So those guys detest him - call him Lyin' Tim, etc. Personally, I follow Royce Pollard's take -- "Mr. Leavitt was on the Council for seven years. He knew exactly what was going on. What the conditions were. And what had to be done. Has to live with that and figure out how to weasel his way out of it." http://www.opb.org/news/article/tolls-still-hot-issue-six-months-after-vancouver-election/

roger — January 27, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit,- Just to be clear as to not pointing a finger, mostly bouncing ideas off walls.

Personally I think much of today's conservative thought is *moronic* and many in their leadership to behave as *jerks*and have few qualms about saying so. I think a couple who post here would also fall into that category. imo

I guess I differentiate between a current behavior & finality of result when slinging labels. With me there's always been a mindful chasm between acting out a behavior as opposed to being that behavior.

Like someone who drinks too much once in awhile and does stupid crap..

As opposed to a steady drunk who's on a mission to do stupid crap.

Maybe I shouldn't differentiate so much. That almost sounds right yet not.

Anyway, didn't mean to wax philosophical. I'd say this to a conservative but most of them are a bunch of moronic jerks! :)

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well stated craig _brown. It's hard for people to think outside of their environmental box. Seemingly politicians more so. And when someone hands them a fistful of cash...

Welcome to the basement! Always good to have new blood in here.

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,
now you know we are politically aligned...:)
However, I feel perfectly comfy calling a few of our esteemed congress men and women, on each side, as well as a few at state or local level, jerks and morons. They are lucky I do not call them worse!!!! Plus, I have two languages to cuss in and label in. Good thing nobody hears my German swearing. And sometimes, one just has to call them what they are.

As to 99% disagreement, I will let you know when I can define the 1%. Was polite. every time I try and find something to agree on with them, one of them opens their mouth, and there it goes. Example: Jindal speech. On surface, hm, not bad. Recognizes and calls his party stupid. Then he goes on to say what they need to change. Turns out, nothing. Except to change they way they communicate same old same old. In other words, lie more. Did not need media to tell me false perception of that speech, just reading/listening to it, was enough.

luvithere — January 27, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No one has mentioned the police shooting that occurred last night on a street that houses families and young children.

I think the officer(s) did what they had to do for their safety and the safety of the community.

What worries me: a 16 year old walking around with two handguns and taking them to Pop Culture on Main Street. What can this teen club do to keep armed young people out so that others who obey the laws can continue to enjoy themselves?

Our downtown neighborhoods will be meeting about this, I can guarantee it.

manthou — January 27, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 11:36- Have you ever seen the movie 'The Blob'? A small mass of extra terrestrial goo absorbs humans and grows exponentially. It's only mission is destroy the masses for personal gain. It grows so large that it not only kills many locals, but becomes a national threat.

Whether bagger roots are ET or not is a worthy conversation, but this lightrail Blob keeps growing and growing and grow...and I'm trying to steer clear somewhat. Anyway, my contention is baggerism seems to be the driving political force behind this no tolls crowd. Who was just crowned King?

I get it that differing viewpoints are many/varied, but one theme seem to be dominant. Anti-government and anti tax. Which equates into anti-progress while integrity is taking a backseat.

Thanks. I read the link and get it. It could be Leavitt found the bolts to be nuts and the nuts to be bolts, and rationalized his change of mind. Either way it lends no credence to current political behavior with this CRC Light Rail KD thing.

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Which would you be more inclined to believe, what you see and hear face to face or hearsay from others?

ELISI — January 27, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.

Though I don't understand where your question is relative to my quote, I'll answer. What I experience personally, of course - not vicariously.

And there are times *I* question the validity of *my* interpretation of *my* own experiences. Probably not half the time, but still...

Drift — January 27, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvt- *Good thing nobody hears my German swearing.*

:))) I still catch myself using a couple of choice German words once in awhile. Mixing them up with a few choice english words really stokes a good vent! :)

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


craig_brown — January 27, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.

"Please remember that when the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution was installed, the "home-protection device" of the day was a musket, not a semi-automatic rifle with an extended ammunition clip."

**Probably true, however it would have been the "semi-automatic weapon" of it's time.**

***I completely agree with background checks.***

***Help for the mentally ill should have nothing to do with gun control, it should stand on it's own and be fully funded.***

***As for large capacity clips, keep making them but make people show proof of need.***

As for the NRA, they are nothing but a lobbying group for the gun manufacturers, treat them as such.

hawkeye — January 27, 2013 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*What can this teen club do to keep armed young people out so that others who obey the laws can continue to enjoy themselves?*

Our downtown neighborhoods will be meeting about this, I can guarantee it.
manthou — January 27, 2013 at 12:29 p.m.

From Pop Cultures website-

Today, youth have access to and are as fascinated with previous generations' icons as they are with modern culture. Our 16 year olds are listening to Jimi Hendrix with the same fervor as the generation who saw him play live. A 22 year old will watch classic cinema as if it were made by friends. The decor and feel of Pop Culture is an intentional hodgepodge of styles, playing together to express the beauty and art of our cultural elements.

Youth culture has a voice – and we have space – space for them to sing, play, speak their ideas into reality, and room to let those ideas develop into unique and impressive shows. Our ongoing success is founded on giving ownership of the shows over to the musicians. There's free reign to program, promote, and tailor their shows – so it's a reflection of them, not some adultified, cleaned up, commercial version of them.

Manthou- After checking their site out this sounds like a great place for kids.

As for security, I haven't been there, but looking at their site a metal detector would work wonders. That and a bouncer.

How about a fund raising drive for a detector? I'm light years away from this type of activity but would be willing to donate to this cause as I think many would. I was enamored with the retro-Hendrix thing. Man, they really know how to pull a guy in!

---

Having said that, amazing comments from the "I've got mine screw everyone else" crowd. Short sightedness has new meaning.

Gee, I wonder if these anti education folk want light rail? **;**)

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

nailingit — January 27, 2013 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Craig, how the heck are ya? Drift here - the basement's resident med-head/activist dude. Something like that...

I don't believe I care to jump into the whole gun legislation thing, so I won't. I will point out, however, that a shotgun is a lousy home defense weapon.

From the length of a living room the shot pattern is pretty darned close to the same as it was when it left the muzzle. "Can't miss with a shotgun," is a fallacy.

Secondly, a long barreled gun doesn't swing in close quarters very well. Especially when one is under a bit of duress. One negligent discharge (and a hole in the wall) and you're down to two shells: as the magazine has most likely been plugged for a max of three.

Lastly, shotguns tend to be heavy and clunky to operate (clack, clack). Not to minimize a woman's strengths, but I'm thinking something a bit lighter would be more appropriate.

Yes, sir, I'm afraid I must disagree about the shotgun.

Again, Craig, welcome to the basement.

Drift — January 27, 2013 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 27, 2013 at 2:09 p.m.

Okay Hawk...prepare yourself. Take a deep breath...and a sigh or two...and now, I haven't been struck by lightning or zapped by static electricity when I tell you this...

I agree with your statement to craig_b....especially when it comes to mental health funding.

I am curious, though...

What constitutes "proof of need?" The only two instances I could think of is the need by our friends in the military who are stationed in our communities or for those who hunt bear. Any idea of just what that "proof of need" would be otherwise??? Since members of my family and friends who are big-game hunters, I can rightly say there's no need for large-capacity gun clips...except in the case of bear hunting, but they don't hunt for bear. Otherwise...I can't see where there's an actual need if the person doesn't hunt bear, except with military personnel.

goldenoldie — January 27, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmm...

Interesting...

craig_brown

???

There's actually more than one, here???

Seems to me, some might have you confused with Craig Brown of the Columbian who would have his avatar similar to Lou's and would show up as **Craig Brown (Columbian Staff)** unless rules have been changed and you are one in the same.

Oh well...welcome to the forum, craig_brown!

just wonderin'

goldenoldie — January 27, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 27, 2013 at 3:06 p.m

What constitutes "proof of need?"

Well there's the rub, right?

I would think if someone was to be in some kind of firearms competition, or maybe a cop that was on call all the time that needed it for a personal weapon. I can't say, but I'm sure *someone* will have a "good reason". Whatever the reason, they should have to get a permit from the ATF.

hawkeye — January 27, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I thought of one more---

Professional Zombie hunter.

hawkeye — January 27, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I noticed that those who criticized my comment about a shotgun as preferred to a semi-automatic weapon in the home made no mention of the home alarm suggestion. The effectiveness of a shot gun, and yes a woman can handle one, is the fear factor that it creates in anyone on the muzzle end.
My biggest concerns about the proliferation of guns in the home is how little concern owners pay to recurrent training so they can actually hit their target instead of an innocent bystander, and how loose many are about securing the weapon against children and thieves gaining access.

My other concern is that Rep. Herrera Beutler has indicated as usuall that she will follow a party line instead of soliciting the concerns of her constituency. Those "community meetings" by invitation don't allow the wide community to weigh in. It seems now that she's heard from the NRA, her mind is made up.

craig_brown — January 28, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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