Open forum, Jan 28-Feb 3

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For your reading entertainment or "Why I Shouldn't Tweet at Night or While Enjoying an Adult Beverage or At All":

Scott Brown of Massachusetts has deleted these strange, late-night Tweets from his history:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.boston.com/news/source/2013/01/scott_browns_late_night_tweets_draw_attention.html

manthou — January 28, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I find it rather amusing how some here on the forum in past weeks have dissed on a certain group of politicians, claiming they are turning our government into a Theocracy but lay no mention with regards to the one they've supported from day one - our current president - saying his fair share. President Obama changed the format of his convention acceptance speech to include a reference to God and has made it well known he's a Christian, even to the skeptics of the world. (Nobody forced him to accept the prayer service before inauguration began...he all but sprinted into the church with his wife and daughters and accepted the hand of the minister providing the prayer...even sharing in a short discussion...and it was all over the television screen, too.)

Check out the link:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-09-07/national/35496499_1_president-obama-convention-speech-god

In this link, it mentions that 66% of Democrats and 58% of Independents say it's important for Presidents to have strong faith. A quote I find fascinating...and contradictory to the comments previously posted on the forum which appears in the link I've provided states the following:

"Obama was able to release himself from the fetters of his personal religious history and paint a picture of an America in which responsibility to country and neighbor is a responsibility to God."

Yep!!! We're definitely *ONE NATION, UNDER GOD!!!* No denying it...so maybe the deniers can suck it up and accept the fact that our government is based on a theological standpoint. If they don't like it...deal with it!

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Will the state of Washington help turn back the clock to increase the likelihood of back-alley abortions?

Maybe, if Don Benton has his way:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/25/republican-bill-would-outlaw-all-abortion-in-washington-state

manthou — January 28, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 6:50 a.m

Well, good for you, you worked your butt off to justify your religion. Big deal.

manthou — January 28, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.

Why am I not surprised?

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal



So back to last Friday, David the Great decided that it would be a great idea to remove the parking fees from all the parks. He said it would save $400k per year. I can't see how that would work unless they are paying that much to some people to collect twice that amount.

Also, if they take down those gates and let everybody go in and out as much as possible, won't that increase the usage? And is they increase the usage, won't that increase the care and maintenance exponentially?

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.

Worked my butt off to justify *my* religion??? Hardly, hawkeye. Nice and melodramatic response you provided. I might "work my butt off to justify my stance against the current Columbia River Crossing project," though. Everything else is merely sharing in discussion with those unwilling to share honest thoughts. Instead...typical emotional rhetoric. Hmm...I believe someone on the forum was just claiming it was conservatives who had that problem. *lolololololol!!!*

Fear not, hawk. I merely pointed out that our very own president is a faithful follower in Christ...yet some on the forum who consistently complain about Christianity and it's roll in our government/society or they consistently plagiarize articles from links, bearing forth the obvious prejudice against Christians...claiming it's an issue with "right-wingers, Repubs or NeoCons" and the very person they've supported from day one...

Is a Christian who practices his faith daily honestly and doesn't have an issue letting it be known he believes in Christ.

Just seems a bit hypocritical to me...that's all. You guys need to come out of the dark and see the light!!

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 10:24 a.m.

And I still support our President. And one reason I do is because ***HE DOESN'T SHOVE HIS RELIGION IN EVERYBODY'S FACE, LIKE SOME DO!***

BTW, when did you quit believing he was a Muslim?

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.

Care to say when I believed he was a Muslim? Seems to me you're putting words into my statements which never existed. Again, you must have me confused with someone else, sweetie.

When I discuss the subject of religion, I am not pushing my religion onto anybody. I have no problem telling all in what I believe in. Just because I am open and honest with what I believe in, doesn't mean I'm pushing it on anybody. Just as some tell me they are non believers and explain why, I tell them I believe in God and explain why. You see hawkeye...it's called a discussion.

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And Hawkeye...when Barack H. Obama first proclaimed he was a Christian...I believed him. I read the statements by those who said he was not, but to be honest...I never stopped believing his faith was in God. Guess you forgot that I let it be know I voted for the man in 2008 when all this BS was going on.

I too support our president as he is the leader of our nation, sworn to lead our nation...So Help Him God, remember??? Bet that scares the bejeebees out of ya that I support him, huh!!! I also think our outgoing Secretary of State would make an excellent president hopeful in the next presidential election, too. I only hope her vision issues clear up. How miserable that must be!

So hawk...any other hateful slams you care to shoot out just because I'm not afraid to speak my mind about religion???

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also, if they take down those gates and let everybody go in and out as much as possible, won't that increase the usage? And is they increase the usage, won't that increase the care and maintenance exponentially?

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.

*"One thing about being a commissioner is you can't get in the weeds and get in the details," Madore said after the radio interview.*

It's the Romney mentality. I would say yes to both your questions.

A poor recipe which doesn't bode well for our community.

Nothing like integrity and transparency!

nailingit — January 28, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**The Biblical and Natural Right of Self-Defense**
By David French

"Essentially that gun control represents not merely a limitation on a constitutional right but a **limitation on a God-given right of man** that has existed throughout the history of civil society. All rights — of course — are subject to some limits (the right of free speech is not unlimited, for example), and there is much room for debate on the extent of those limits, but state action against the right of self-defense is by default a violation of the natural rights of man, and the state’s political judgment about the limitations of that right should be viewed with extreme skepticism and must overcome a heavy burden of justification."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/338845/biblical-and-natural-right-self-defense-david-french#

mr_basil_seal — January 28, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.

Seriously, why would I care? You are free to waste your time as you please.

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Nothing like integrity and transparency!*

Reminds me of what we were told 4 yrs ago, and is still echoing in the halls of the WH, yet to be seen....

Can't get it from the WH, what make one think you'll get it locally?

ELISI — January 28, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Yep!!! We're definitely ONE NATION, UNDER GOD!!! No denying it...so maybe the deniers can suck it up and accept the fact that our government is based on a theological standpoint. If they don't like it...deal with it!"

Well, that's one hell of a burden, eh? I mean, God's pretty heavy, right? ;^)

I'm not into the whole religion conversation thing. Not much into it anyway. The thing is, I must take a few issues with your statement (above), goldie - regardless.

First, you write, "We're."
I know this is going to read as a semantic kind of thing, but sometimes, as in law, semantics are important. Define "we." You didn't consult me (fact) so I can't be included in "we." Who else did you not consult? Are they included in your "we" also?

You know, if you'd'a written, "This is a nation under..." I probably would have skipped it. You implicate *me* with *we*. Please don't.

You're second sentence, "...based on a theological standpoint." You know that sentence doesn't mean anything, right? Think about it, it's near a tautology.

And then you write if I don't like it then I must just deal with it? That's a glove across the cheek if I've ever felt one. How dare you madam!

How dare you attempt to include me in your schemes and then deny my opinion should I disagree!

Hurumphhh!

For shame, my dear! For shame!
(shambles away, shaking head)

Drift — January 28, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**‘Christian Fighter Pilot’ Maj. Jonathan Dowty has Conniption Over ‘Homosexual’ Military Spouse of the Year**
by Chris Rodda

On January 25, Stars and Stripes reported that Ashley Broadway, who had been denied membership in Fort Bragg’s officers’ spouse club because her spouse is a woman, has not only been accepted as a member of the spouse club, but has also been named as Fort Bragg’s 2013 spouse of the year in an online contest run by Military Spouse magazine. Winning this contest at the base level puts Broadway in the running for the magazine’s Army spouse of the year.
Needless to say, the extremely homophobic Air Force Major Jonathan C. Dowty, a.k.a. the Christian Fighter Pilot — whose number of blog posts about ‘homosexuals’ may soon rival the over 400 posts he’s written about Mikey Weinstein, his family, and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) — has his panties in a wad over this recognition of a ‘homosexual’ as a spouse.
But, as he wrote in a blog post titled “Military Spouse of the Year: Devout Christian, Homosexual,” Maj. Dowty also has a problem with Broadway describing herself as “a very devout Christian,” writing:
“It is also true that some who might call themselves “devout Christians” may still sin — no one is perfect, after all (actually, there was that One Guy…). It is notable, though, that someone proudly proclaiming her faith in Jesus Christ is just as proudly proclaiming her unrepentant sin.”
Poor Maj. Dowty — not only does he have to share the military with the ‘homosexuals,’ he also has to share the same lord and savior with them. It’s enough to make a fundie’s head explode.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2013/01/28/christian-fighter-pilot-maj-jonathan-dowty-has-conniption-over-homosexual-military-spouse-of-the-year/

mr_basil_seal — January 28, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 28, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.

No shame in the game, Cap'n. It is what it is...except I will rephrase one sentence just for you if I may.

*"No denying it...so maybe the deniers can suck it up and accept the fact that our government is based on a theological *"reference."**

To continue...

"We"...is a general statement of recognition of support to our nation, also stated in the preamble to the US Constitution although it is obvious I hadn't signed it and neither did you...8)) It is ALSO on our US Currency....but it is accepted that it refers to all of us to show homage to our government, our nation and is understood that *WE* show respect to our nation which is a heckuva lot better than a lot of other nations in this world right now. So to end this winded section of my statement, *"We"* remains in my comment. I'm not about to go PC just to please anybody who finds my statement offensive.

To back up that statement, I am referencing #2 on the following definition (dictionary.com)

*1)of, pertaining to, or involved with theology: a theological student.
2) based upon the nature and will of God as revealed to humans.*

And yes..."suck it up" also means "face the fact and accept that it is what it is."

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.

No more than you would.

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift...a bit of clarification -

Sorry about the sloppy copy/paste job. That I admit was an error on my part. The definition refers to "theological reference" and was inadvertently inserted after my explanation of why I used the word "We" in my original statement.

goldenoldie — January 28, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie, old friend, are you sure you want a discussion or do you want us all to agree with your opinion? You seem to get quite angry if people disagree.
And in your statement of 12.55 you referred to Obama being a Christian, going on to further state you always thought he believed in God. Does that mean Muslims do NOT believe in God? Was that what you wanted it to mean or did it just get presented a bit oddly?

And: I am still an atheist. I still believe in separation of church and state. I also believe that if you or the prez want to believe in a God, you may do so. But please, I do not want to. And that's my right. And I do not need to be convinced otherwise. I do not try and convince you otherwise either.

I probably deeply regret getting involved here. About right now.

luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For another topic that I hope people want to discuss. Postal service. Not looking good for them. Easy solution would of course be to get rid of the health mandate that they were slapped with a few years back, the only agency to be so pushed. I consider the post office to be a great bargain. woudl a letter cost just 46 cents with FedEx? Doubt it. Should the good old post office be rescued?

luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

A close friend of mine is a postal carrier and the horror stories he tells me are really scarey. He has a woman manager that has been bounced from one branch to another because of her attitude and the friction she causes in her branch. Then they have "ride along" managers that just sit there and take notes when you are doing a route. Also, they try to trick the carriers into doing something wrong and if they bite, they are written up for it.

From what he tells me, that place needs to be revamped starting at the top.

BTW luv, thanks for 5:43. Me too.

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHItY5...

**Orly Taitz Plans To Lobby Congress**

"We can stop at inexpensive places to eat, such as pizza places or MacDonalds, so the trip can be very affordable for anyone. Bottom line, I believe that our corrupt judges and corrupt Congressmen will continue committing treason and cover up of Obama’s forged IDs and his stolen SSN, if they do not see people rising against them. They are not any different from the faceless pupets of the Soviet Politbureau during the times of Stalin ot Breznev."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/orly-taitz-congress_n_2567464.html

---

**Sarah Palin and the End of an Era**

The former Alaska governor's split from Fox News highlights the fade of the Tea Party as well as her own diminishing role.

She still makes up words (“electioning”). She still repeats sentences and phrases, padding her answers with filler. She still talks in vague generalities, leaving one to wonder how much she really knows. At a time when some conservatives reportedly have concluded it’s time to challenge liberalism rather than keep trying to stoke hostility toward Obama himself, she still attacks Obama in highly personal terms (“Mr. Nobel-Peace-Prize- winning president of ours”). Her diction is still, shall we say, unusual (“I believe that it’s many, many things that he would say and do being deceptive”).

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/sarah-palin-and-the-end-of-an-era-20130126

nailingit — January 28, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Should the good old post office be rescued?*

luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

I think so. Fix it & fund it. We'll regret it in the long run if we don't.

nailingit — January 28, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks hawk and nail. Yes, post office needs fixing but we would definitely regret not having it. I still use it on a regular basis. All the care packages to the kid in DC, the tuition bills, LOL. Among other things. Some things are worth keeping.

luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


AAAARRRRGGGGGGG, Don Benton is such an XZZXXZZX^$#@$%^&*(*&

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye — January 28, 2013 at 10:51 p.m

And his ilk,,,,

*Lew Waters · Top Commenter · Works at Stateside Associates Best Local Politics Blog
Parents must give permission for an child to receive an aspirin in school, but not abortions?
Reply · · 7 hours ago*

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Understanding the roots of today's conservative.

**Top Conservatives Run PAC That Funded White Nationalists**

*Two conservatives who sit on the boards of mainstream right-wing groups control a PAC that gave thousands of dollars to a racist organization.*

Two prominent conservative movement officials who hold leadership positions for several right-wing groups—Ron Robinson and James B. Taylor—run a political action committee that donated thousands of dollars to a white nationalist organization, according to public records. And for several years Taylor was vice president of another white nationalist organization.

Robinson and Taylor are each board members of Young America's Foundation (YAF), which cofounded the annual Conservative Political Action Conference and runs the conservative youth group Young Americans for Freedom. (YAF owns and manages the Ronald Reagan Ranch, trains conservative journalists, and calls itself "the principle outreach organization of the Conservative Movement.") And Robinson, YAF's president, is on the board of two other conservative groups: Citizens United, which brought the landmark Supreme Court case of the same name, and the American Conservative Union, which operates CPAC.

Read more @ http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/ron-robinson-james-b-taylor-young-americas-foundation-white-nationalists

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's amazing what some lawmakers spend their time on. It appears Benton falls into the same category of having too much time to waste.

**Arizona Bills Require Constitution Loyalty Oath, Pledge Of Allegiance By Public School Students**

Two Arizona lawmakers are stirring Constitutional debate and threats of legal action after introducing bills that would require the state's students to express love of country under God.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/arizona-bills-require-con_n_2568131.html

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More Benton. Of course we have to go to a different source for a more thorough study.....

**Capitol Newsmaker, Week 2: Sen. Don Benton**

"This week, Benton's committee shut down an effort by Democrats to install Lt. Gov. Brad Owen, a Democrat, as a nonvoting chairman of his committee. Benton’s response: That it was “quite embarrassing” that Democrats hadn’t “graciously” accepted their status as the minority party, according to Jordan Schrader at The News Tribune.

Benton is also the prime sponsor of more than 30 bills that range from requiring parental notification before a minor gets an abortion, to preventing undocumented immigrants from receiving in-state tuition and financial aid, to lifting the law requiring adults to wear helmets while riding motorcycles to a Tea Party-inspired anti-Growth Managment Act bill about the U.N.'s agenda to promote sustainable development. Unlike previous years, this isn't just a laundry list of hot-button proposals suggested by a minority party senator with no hope of getting a hearing—two of those three bills have public hearings on the books.

I wanted to talk to Benton about what all of this means moving forward this session, but he did not return numerous calls throughout Wednesday and Thursday. Two Senate Republican Caucus communications staffers also tried to get Benton on the phone Thursday, but he was in committee meetings.

So where does this leave us? The focus on the Roach leak and subsequent investigation will likely shift to policy discussions as session progresses. And whatever your opinion of Benton’s bills, few have a realistic chance of passing a Democratic-controlled House or being signed into law by a Democratic governor (and that’s saying nothing of their chances of passing the MCC-controlled Senate)."

http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-profiles/publicola/articles/capitol-newsmaker-week-2-sen-don-benton

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Put Boss Hawg in charge!

**Mississippi 'Nullification' Panel Pushed By Tea Party Legislators Would Negate Federal Laws**

Mississippi state Rep. Jeff Smith is one of two state legislators looking to establish a commission that would block federal legislation it deemed undesirable.
Two Tea Party lawmakers in Mississippi have proposed legislation to create a permanent committee charged with nullifying federal laws the state does not want to follow.

Under the legislation, a committee of 14 state lawmakers would be authorized to stop any federal law from applying in Mississippi, the Dispatch reports. The bill comes as state lawmakers around the country have sought to block enforcement of President Barack Obama's new executive orders related to gun control, often in ways that have been called constitutionally questionable.

Mississippi state Reps. Gary Chism (R-Columbus) and Jeff Smith (R-Columbus), both said that the gun control measures, along with the Affordable Care Act, were the impetus for their proposed nullification panel.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/mississippi-nulification_n_2569486.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 28, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.

You should never feel as if you cannot share in a hearty discussion with me, luvit. Do I want you all to agree with me? Of course not. In fact, it wouldn't be healthy for society as a whole if everybody agreed with each other. It would lean into an extreme direction that I believe nobody would want.

I'm just one who is headstrong on my beliefs but am willing to listen to someone with a different viewpoint WITHOUT insults thrown in my direction because I care to discuss the issue on an OPEN forum. Given facts presented to me, then yes...I could change my understanding of a subject...and I probably would. It's happened numerous times over the course of my lifetime.

In your comment, you stated that I believed our president has always believed in God. Isn't Allah (Arabic) in Muslim faith as well as Arab Christians...God of a different name??? Heck, how many names in the world languages are said differently but mean the same thing??? I will say this, that I am saying I believe when he has held to his faith, he has always believed in God, based on his own admissions.

If our president was once Muslim...good for him. I have no problem with Muslim faith...never have. He could believe in the Pretzel Man being his God...it still wouldn't bother me. What I have a problem is in any faith...doesn't matter which one it is...there's always someone who takes it to the extreme, causing harm or injury or even suppressing the rights of humanity. Yes, even in the religion for which I was baptized.

to be continued -

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


sigh...

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*continued from comment @6:53am -*

And luvithere, my friend...I too believe in separation of Church and State. Yep, you read it right. My point from the beginning hasn't been that we need a Theocracy running our nation. Heck no! What I've stressed to everyone and will once again is the fact that our government holds to the ideals set in any faith that we hold true to our nation for which it stands (seems a bit cliche' but it fits) and will support the members of our government for the betterment of our nation. They receive the blessings of God through pastors, rabbis, ministers, priests...whoever...every time the US Congress opens a session. Does that mean all their decisions are based on faith? Of course not. If that were so, we'd be that Theocratic government...but it is the conscience of faith...based on the religion of belief in God(by any other name is still God) which has led our government to do what is right and just for our nation...even if we agree or disagree.

Our government is set up in a way that we get to vote on laws, taxes...even human rights and wilderness/wildlife, etc. Sometimes our elected officials make laws or add taxes for which we have a right to repeal or to question...well, maybe a lot of times, lol. That my dear, is why we voted our politicians in and that too, is what I believe the roll God has in our government. It's an individual decision and I honestly believe each politician believes they're making what they perceive as the right decision.

Anyhow, with the power to vote, we make decisions and our decisions are based on what we believe to be right as well...many basing our decisions on what we were taught not only through the church, but through what our parents were taught and their parents and their parents...which in all actuality, were faith based if you check the family history books. I guarantee you, even while you are proclaiming you are athiest...which just as I am stating I am a Christian, we BOTH have historic ties to the church. It is easy to say an athiest doesn't make decisions based on faith...but who taught you how to make decisions for yourself and what based their thought processes on what was right and just and who taught them???

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Your response is a red herring, goldie. You attempt to justify your use of "we" with historic incidence. Your agrument doesn't hold water. "We the people...," is not vaguely related to your abuse of "we."

You cherry pick definitions. Should I choose to use the same tactic I could simply cut and paste: "The systematic study of the existence and nature of the divine and its relationship to and influence upon other beings (Collins). At which point I would point out our government is not based upon the study of the devine. But, I won't use the same tactic.

You imply that because the president practices the Christian faith that make this a nation under God. What if the man practiced Voodoo? By your reasoning we would then be a nation under Vodun?

I will interact with this nation, my friends, family and neighbors as I see fit. That responsibility (accepting a "responsibilty" exists) is mine and mine alone. It isn't a reponsibility to any diety.

As I've stated previously, I'm quite okay with religion. I take no issue with folks worshipping who they may. Myself, I'm of the belief it's a personal thing.

The thing is, your post (yesterday 6:50 a.m.) brings a vision of you dragging me, kicking and screaming, into your house of worship. And if that's not bad enough, your opinion is I can like it or lump it.

Sorry, girlfriend, I'm just not okay with that.

Maybe this is where we simply agree to disagree?

Drift — January 29, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere, one final note...

Nitpickers...those who care not to share in discussion but would rather post idiotic clips of videos, some digitally enhanced to obviously predicate on slander of a group rather than the person in the video who thrives on making themselves look like fools...the same nitpickers whose vitriol is based on attacking anybody who cares to speak their mind...

are very narrow-minded individuals and truly need to get a life.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, I have no problem if we disagree on any subject. Your vision of what I said is yours to have and to hold the rest of your life...I hope not. Maybe you should read the posts I just gave to luvithere, further explaining what I believe to be the role of religion in our government. Again, Drift. It doesn't bother me if you agree or disagree. This is a discussion site. I hold to my statements. I listened to you, I did bend a little...but honestly...

It is what it is. I'm not the one telling the pastors or ministers or rabbis to offer prayer to the Congress in the start of their day. I'm not the one holding the bible to the President as he's sworn in. I'm not the one saying if it is right or wrong. I'm merely stating what is presented in front of our faces day in and day out. It is our president who stated he was a Christian and that he swore an oath SO HELP HIM GOD...which in religious terms means, he is stating his decisions will be made with the help of doing what is right and just. That doesn't mean he'll make his decisions based on his religious teachings...just that he is professing his decisions are the right ones.

You guys can kick and shout and scream at me all you want regarding what I believe to be true...but isn't an honest discussion worth more than emotional rhetoric?

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Having a good laugh at AL Gore on Today this morning...trying to
come up with a perfect excuse for selling Currant TV to Al Jazeera. Now that he is on the board of Apple watch your stocks on this one folks!

ELISI — January 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And drift...The president is professing his decisions to be right and just, based on the word of God...hence the need for the hand to be held atop the Holy Bible.

Why does that seem to be such a threat to those with opinions different than mine???

We have our freedom to make decisions based on what we believe to be right and just...and we choose whether or not we care to participate in the right to vote, based on what we believe to be the right thing to do.

I just don't understand the threat atheists hold when it comes to our government and the roll of religion in the duties of sworn government officials/officers/military/etc.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwOmf6g-tBI

One of many dangers facing our youth!

God help us!

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...no matter what picture Al Gore paints to the world, it all looks the same!

Here's my rendition -

$$$$$$-GREED-$$$$$$

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't believe I'm engaging in emotional rhetoric, goldie. My whole point is/was in your original post I objected to a few of your statements. The biggest thorn being your use of "we." My objection is prima facie evidence you were mistaken in using "we," as my opting out of your "we" effectively...

Oh, never mind. I should know better than to engage in these types of discussions. I'm off to light the incense and chase down a chicken. ;^)

Drift — January 29, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**God(by any other name is still God)**

Good to know. That means the [Flying Spaghetti Monster][1] is the equivalent to the faerie in the New and Old Testaments...

Maybe we can ask Benton to request one of its followers for a morning invocation.....

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_S...

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It is what it is, Drift. When discussing a subject which makes one feel less than comfortable, it's usually because of emotions that are brought forth to the table. Sometimes the thin line between fact and emotion is blurred by all. And not meaning any offense to your professional skills in writing but from what I've observed in the writing world...to emphasize any discussion, placement of certain words which encourage emotion in your writes makes for a better final copy...8))

Enjoy your morning!

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal...

I'd like to see you submit such a request...would even love to see the response you'd get. Even more...to see the facial expression on Senator Benton!!!

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding the discussion on the US Postal Service...

They should eliminate Saturday Mail Delivery.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**need for the hand to be held atop the Holy Bible**

No "need". Not a legal requirement. Neither for an oath of office or to claim you are telling the truth in court.

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:27 a.m

Seems he's donating far more than any faeries are.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance...

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Are you saying my writing sucks, goldie?! Now, you hold on just a durned minute...!

An excerpt from one of today's LttE: "Not hysterical proselytizing from a pulpit constructed of emotionally charged vituperation."

Me thinks Ol' Jimbo has a thesaurus and knows how to use it. Heh, heh, heh (now off to look up "vituperation").

Enjoy your whole day, gold!

Drift — January 29, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

Ahhh...but the need comes from within, sir. Nobody forced our president to lay his hand upon his wife's family Holy Bible or Abraham Lincoln's Holy Bible, but he did it anyway...behind the scenes with the official swearing and in front of the nation at the inauguration.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — January 29, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.

Silly Drift...of course I'm not saying your writing sucks. Never did, never will! I wasn't singling any particular person. Denial of the fact that emotion necessitates the need to emphasize facts for ALL writers; you know...trigger words to spark emotion...that kind of schtuff.

And thanks, Drift...instead of just the morning, enjoy your WHOLE day as well.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


correction - Please remove "Denial of" and insert into comment "The fact is that emotion necessitates...."

Time for tea.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ahhh...but the need comes from within, sir.
goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:48 a.m.

With a 20% 'unaffiliated', the "need" is becoming less important..... Probably why there is such a spate of religion inspired bills coming from a party whose membership is white and gray (http://www.gallup.com/poll/118528/gop-losses-span-nearly-demographic-groups.aspx
&
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118937/republican-base-heavily-white-conservative-religious.aspx
&
http://www.gallup.com/poll/143231/conservatives-dominate-republican-party-skew-older.aspx.....

2007 http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

2012 "Perhaps the most important finding in the report, “‘Nones’ on the Rise,” is that, for the first time, there are now as many Americans who claim no religion as there are white evangelicals," http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/10/pew-report-finding-more-americans-unaffiliated-with-religion-is-bad-news-for-gop.html
&
http://www.pewforum.org/Unaffiliated/nones-on-the-rise.aspx

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cannot wait to hear the full story behind the prowler that was killed by a resident in Vancouver this morning.

Honestly, I do not get the gun culture. So sorry. Y'all can own them by law, but, I will leave the shooting to the trained police.

I know, I know. Self-defense, blah, blah, blah. I'll take my chances. Have not been robbed or threatened yet in my long life, so my safe prediction is: chances are, I won't.

According to the C's current story, a 911 call was placed, describing a prowler in the neighborhood. By the time the police arrived, a resident took care of the issue themselves.

Reading the FB comments that accompany this article, it is a good thing we live in a free speech society. Some of them are folks who sound more dangerous than any criminal out there.

manthou — January 29, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Let me add this rhetorical question to the Columbian: You said that FB identification would make the comment sections more civil?

I always had a hunch that those folks who spew forth such threats and hate and don't care about revealing their true identity concern me more than those of us on here who are anonymous and mostly respectful (even if we do argue like siblings). :)

manthou — January 29, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims' and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn's early my
country 'tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?"
He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water

E. E. Cummings - 1926

http://unix.cc.wmich.edu/~cooneys/poems/cummings.nextto.html

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This type of journalism projects a good baseline for in depth local reporting. I truly wish this paper would take this subject seriously.

Now it's time to fix and fine tune a few things with current law. We need facts in order to apply common sense with new freedoms. Not 60's conservative hyperbole.

Where is the C?

A practical look at Washington State law enforcement+pot is legal current state of affairs.

**New Marijuana Laws: Just a Smokescreen**

Washington’s law also leaves users vulnerable to arrest. Steinborn says that **in the past 6 months he’s taken on more marijuana-related driving-while-intoxicated cases than he did in the previous 44 years**. He attributes the increase to a provision in the new marijuana law that lowers the burden of proof in these cases. Before legalization, prosecutors had to show that a driver was impaired by drug use and that the impairment affected the driver’s performance behind the wheel. Steinborn says these cases were exceedingly rare because prosecutors had a hard time proving that drivers were actually impaired. Now all that’s needed is a test showing at least 5 nanograms per milliliter of THC, marijuana’s active ingredient, in an adult driver’s blood or any amount of THC in a younger driver’s blood.

“Officers and prosecutors are very much tuned in to this,” Steinborn says. “To imagine police and prosecutors would ignore a tool that makes their lives so easy borders on the delusional.”

..

If DUI arrests occur only when traffic safety is at risk, and not just because the police spot a Burning Man-bound stoner (easy prey), marijuana-related DUI cases should remain a relative oddity. Driving under the influence of drugs is reported as a contributing factor in less than 1 percent of all collisions and less than 3 percent of fatalities in Washington. This includes all drugs that were illegal in 2011, including but not limited to marijuana. Drunk driving is far and away a bigger problem on the roads, accounting for more than 4 percent of collisions and 20 percent of fatalities.

http://prospect.org/article/new-marijuana-laws-just-smokescreen

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 29, 2013 at 8:53 a.m

It is interesting, isn't it. Even though the people on the FB side have to use their real names, the posts are more mean spirited than those over here. I think it's because of the subject matter and the responses to how the stories are written. I have noticed that the story writers have been (more or less) "calling" in their work. It seems like they no longer investigate the story, they merely report it.

hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Another ' I can force my beliefs on you'......

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/413074/april-23-2012/don-mcleroy

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: Print journalism has changed and getting the story out, any story out, as quickly as one can is the rule of the day in the digital world. This is probably at the expense of accuracy. I remember that there was a staff memo distributed to the Oregonian reporters in September that basically said the same thing.

A friend of mine is a Newsday reporter and I saw her last weekend out East. She talked about having to dictate her stories from the field way back in 2002. Times have changed, eh?

Watch Portlandia? The most recent episode spoofed the Portland Tribune on this very subject. Jim Romanesko's blog covers it:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://jimromenesko.com/2013/01/29/portland-tribune-editor/

manthou — January 29, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm following the comments on:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

Arnett totally blows his own argument. He writes of the study Kennedy mentions. He states the results of said study aren't refuted, yet he goes on to write socioeconomic factors might have influenced those results. Uh, that doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me. Are the results seen as accurate, or not? Kinda, sorta, maybe the results are viable aint gonna cut it.

He goes on to write teens currently *are* "smoking out." So, obviously someone does have an interest in the kiddies blowing weed. He uses this statement (I paraphrased) to point out an error in Kennedy's opinion. What he doesn't mention is that interest lies with the black-market peddlers. Not responsible individuals within the community.

He infers he prefers the status quo, yet admits the current state of affairs isn't doing much to address teen cannabis abuse.

Frankly, it looks to me like Dave has put the exclamation mark at the end of Jim's LttE.

Careful, Dave. You'll put an eye out with that pitchfork. Heh.

Drift — January 29, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The post office is one of the single largest government wastes we have. Over 5 Billion in debt with no relief in sight except for the taxpayers to pay for it, I think now is the time to phase it out and cut our losses. With the private sector providing duplicate service at a profit now id the time to look at some type of cordinated effort to blend the US Postal network with lets say Fed Up and Ups...or even some regional carrier... If they can do it for a profit why keep funding something that is like a huge ship in the ocean without a rudder waiting to just hit something...

Like some Banko's they can take key employees with them to the new carrier...We can all still send the same darn stuff the same way and possibly get there in the same time... Along with that and the internet there are lots of choices other than the US Post Office...

vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"...private sector providing duplicate service at a profit ..."
vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.

I don't see UPS/Fedex/DHL jumping up and asking to deliver the political flyers, the coupons, the 'important information' about car sales, unsolicited credit card apps, Hallmark cards, personal letters, and it seems they pay the PO to deliver some packages (http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/2003/UPS-Through-USPS6nov03.htm).....

So, no. Those corps aren't "providing duplicate service at a profit.."

And it is noted that you aren't addressing the retirement fund requirements the PO was stuck with......

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Obama Embraces Senate Immigration Deal**

*The Obama-Hillary interview signaled that we have passed an important tipping point in American politics: Democrats are now the regular guys, and conservatives are the weirdos.*

I can actually see, to some extent, the point of conservatives’ complaints about the Obama-Hillary 60 Minutes interview. It was softbally, and Steve Kroft’s one real question—to Clinton, about whether she felt any guilt or remorse over Benghazi—she totally didn’t answer. But here, conservatives, is what you are missing and what you need to reckon with. Americans—except you—like these two people. Most Americans look at the pair of them—this black man who is still remote in some ways and this so-familiar woman who is now aging before us and allowing herself to look just a little frumpy—and feel reassured. Most Americans are cheering for them, and hence, most Americans probably wanted a softball interview. We have thus passed an important portal in American politics: Democrats are now the regular guys. Conservatives are the weirdos.

Read more @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/politics.html

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


@ 1:01>Proper headline**^^^The Real ‘60 Minutes’ Revelation^^^**

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A political reckoning!!

**David Brooks calls for GOP split**

In case you missed it in Playbook this morning, New York Times columnist David Brooks is calling for a split in the GOP.

"It's probably futile to try to change current Republicans," he writes in today's paper. "It's smarter to build a new wing of the Republican Party, one that can compete in the Northeast, the mid-Atlantic states, in the upper Midwest and along the West Coast. It's smarter to build a new division that is different the way the Westin is different than the Sheraton."

"The second G.O.P. ... would be filled with people who recoiled at President Obama's second Inaugural Address because of its excessive faith in centralized power, but who don't share the absolute antigovernment story of the current G.O.P," he continues. "Would a coastal and Midwestern G.O.P. sit easily with the Southern and Western one? No, but majority parties are usually coalitions of the incompatible. This is really the only chance Republicans have."

Brooks is right about the intra-party divisions, though I'm not convinced they fall on geographic lines. (Neither is Brooks; he opens his column praising Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana for "calling on Republicans to stop being the stupid party, to stop insulting the intelligence of the American people.")

I'm even more skeptical about this "coalition of the incompatible." That's what the Republican party is now. If it worked, the factions wouldn't need to split.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/01/david-brooks-calls-for-gop-split-155505.html?hp=r1

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

Thats the problem , people wanting something for very little or nothing or even something you might have that you earnered but they don't want to work for... It's time we the tax payers quit paying for things like any political advertsing and of such ilk..

*don't see UPS/Fedex/DHL jumping up and asking to deliver the political flyers, the coupons, the 'important information' about car sales, unsolicited credit card apps, Hallmark cards, personal letters, and it seems they pay the PO to deliver some packages* They will for a price and if not then let the folks who want to send that crap out pay for it themselves..Fed ex and ups sends all the above out and will pick up if you want...

As far as the retirement program.. It's not that different from many of the current retirement programs for government , city, county workers... They can work that out as well...

Our county has individuals that have accrued over 2000 hrs of sick leave they can cash in.. In the private sector we don't have that kind of unsutainable PORK.... If you don't use your vacation by the end of the year you loose it.. It's been well documented that time away from work aka: vaction is good for the employee and business. Cross training works wonders..In addition the government pays too much money for jobs that are really minimum wage jobs, which require little training.. The private sector would not be paying someone $20 an hr after x amount of years to do something that requires very little skill or training... The Post office is just one of a handfull of wastefull spending by our government.. thats all...

One should go check out these gov't agencies,.. Aka L&I; 5 folks behind counter talking about weekend while one person waiting to be helped... Over staffing, not sure , under worked possibly, that wouldn't last long again in private sector..

vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fleecing of the Taxpayer...Shame on each and everyone of you!!!

Washington tax dollars go to dry cleaning, art
Rivers, Moeller, Benton among lawmakers reimbursed for such expenses

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

ELISI — January 29, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*As far as the retirement program.. It's not that different from many of the current retirement programs for government ...*
vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

Ummm, forgetting something?

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/economy/postal-service/index.htm

http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/assault-american-unions-extends-p

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 29, 2013 at 2:01 p.m.

Wonder how much it costs to process the 30 bills Benton is trying to put on the table.....

One of which 'addresses' Agenda 21.

Or to deal with the Roach affair

http://crosscut.com/2013/01/25/olympia-2013/112644/bentons-bills/

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*In addition the government pays too much money for jobs that are really minimum wage jobs, which require little training.*
vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

You are going to support that with specific examples that are verifiable, right?

Or is that hinged on your "Aka L&I; 5 folks.."?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil

lets just say *Mail Processing Clerks* *Mail Handlers**Sales, Service, and Distribution Associates* City carrier.. these are what the USPS describe as entry level jobs which require passing a test 473-E.. I was just pointing out these jobs are the bulk of which employment rests at the USPS..
I like my mail man but my little ones , barky, sparky and Sam don't..I think it's there blue unies...I'm just saying if it weren't for Junk mail the USPS would have gone under 15 years ago.. Junk mail makes up almost 50% of all mailed delivered today and that creates other issues..Disposal.. Check out this link..

Government doesn't do much of anything better than the public sector can do and the public sector has to do it for less.. .

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/business/seeking-revenue-postal-service-plans-to-deliver-more-junk-mail.html?_r=0

the USPS has been increasingly reliant on junk mail — advertisements, catalogs and other unsolicited mailbox “gifts” —

vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

Thanks for the non-answering.

Just a typical RW talking point; No data. No sources.

*In addition the government pays too much money for jobs that are really minimum wage jobs, which require little training.* vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

You are going to support that with specific examples that are verifiable, right?

And, just what to your dogs' attitude toward your carrier have to do with this discussion?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 29, 2013 at 8:48 a.m.

Did you read the latest update on the homeowner? It appears he was arrested for shooting the intruder. Looks like it's second degree murder charges for someone who had no prior record. Sad that it came to the need of the homeowner, protecting his family...for lethal weaponry to take the life of anybody no matter the reason. A lot of weight on the shoulders of anybody who chooses to arm themselves for protection against other humans and what it is they have to face, should they have the need to do so. What bothers me is why there's such a need for people to protect themselves from these people who think they can just waltz right into our homes and take whatever they want or do whatever they want...but then again...

the resident in Hazel Dell, minding his own business, was shot in the stomach in his own residence BY an intruder and at last report was still in ICU...shot by an intruder who in turn, had *his* life ended by the very police you (and I) prefer to have that responsibility. A misdirected teen is dead as is another intruder. Yet another individual, shot and killed by the police near WinCo...had a stolen gun in his possession...a wanted man. It's never ending, manthou. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on the use of guns but rather the cause of why there's so many gun-toting individuals in every nook and cranny and why it appears violence is on the rise.

Guess we can blame the ills of society and economic failure of the region...of the nation for that matter. I really don't think there's any single right answer in the three cases I mentioned...till all facts are on the table.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My question is a shout out to all forum dwellers. If someone is prowling around your house...even breaks into your home with you and your family inside, what would be your plan of action to correct the situation???

After multiple burglaries and car break ins in our neighborhood in the past two weeks - middle of the night AND in the middle of the day...this concerns me greatly that a repeat issue like the one near Burnt Bridge Creek neighborhood could easily happen in my neighborhood. Our neighbors have been informed and anybody with security cams have them primed and ready. Lights are on and ears are peeled...but how do you prevent an incident such as the one near Burnt Bridge Creek neighborhood or even the one in Hazel Dell???

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Just a typical RW talking point; No data. No sources.*

*mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.*

And what forms your conclusion that vanwadreamer's comment is a RW talking point? Just curious.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Hey manthou and hawk, as many fakes and flakes on FB as there are everywhere else. Just what are the social networks provoking?

And for the rhetoric one, perhaps it is - CSf@ centralia syndrome.

soapbox4u — January 29, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's no wonder conservative republicans are increasingly seen as uncaring, cruel and short-sighted. Now a five year old might not only have getting shot at school on their mind, now they're expected to carry a financial burden. I guess less nutrition will help them and their family should they fail.

Amazing stuff from our citizens on the right.

**Lawmaker: Cut Welfare To Families Whose Kids Don’t Do Well In School**

Stacey Campfield wants to cut welfare to families if their children don’t perform well in school. The Tennessee state senator is well-known around the country for his ignorant and anti-gay remarks, like claiming it’s “virtually impossible” for HIV/AIDS to be transmitted via intercourse between a man and a woman, and for being the author of Tennessee’s infamous “Don’t Say Gay” bill.

“This is just restricting it [food stamps] to those who are truly in need versus those who are abusing the system,” Campfield says, calling his bill a step toward “breaking the cycle of poverty,” as he told KnoxNews:

“If the family doesn’t care if the child goes to school or does well in school, the odds of that child getting out of poverty are pretty low,” the senator said.

The bill applies to the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program. Current law says parents or guardians of children who are receiving benefits can lose 20 percent of their benefits if a child does not attend school.

Campfield’s bill adds a new requirement that the child make “satisfactory academic progress” as well and raises the penalty to 30 percent of benefits.

“The maximum benefit for a mother with two children is $185 a month,” [executive director of the Tennessee Commission on Children and Youth, Linda] O’Neal said in an interview. “That’s already low. If you take 60-plus dollars away, you’re just further limiting people who already have extremely few resources… It’s just piling on.”

Senate Democratic Leader Jim Kyle of Memphis said he would oppose the bill because it would “stack the deck against at-risk children.”

“How does Sen. Campfield expect a child to do his homework when there is no food on the dinner table?” he said.

Last year, Senator Campfield was able to pass a bill requiring drug testing — presumably, urine tests — for welfare recipients.

Campfield last year also became the object of much scorn and ridicule, as his infamous “Don’t Say Gay” bill was placed on hold after lawmakers realized that the bill was not only unnecessary — from their own standpoint — but counterproductive as well. In grades K -8, the bill would have made it illegal to discuss homosexuality in any manner at all, and allow only the discussion of heterosexual reproduction. Lawmakers put a hold on the bill upon learning — after more than two years of debate — that Tennessee does not have sex education classes in grades K – 8.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/lawmaker-cut-welfare-to-families-whose-kids-dont-do-well-in-school/politics/2013/01/27/59201

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:04 p.m

Look nationally at who makes the claims that the PO should be privatized.

Look nationally at who makes the claims that the government can;t provide services economically.

Look nationally at who makes the claims that government workers are overpaid.

Look nationally at who makes the claims that FedEx. et al provide all the services and makes a profit.

And look nationally for who can't provide the data that would support those claims.

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.

Look nationally??? Oh, you mean "check out what the media has to say," right?!?! Yeah...like that's credible lately!!!

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe 'think Reagan'.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XObcP6...

Or Norquist "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

Or read some CATO. Or AEI /ALEC

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"check out what the media has to say," right?!?! Yeah...like that's credible lately!!!

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.

So maybe you should list some of the sources that inform your thinking.......

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil-

Sorry to disappoint but it does look like you may need to take additional Comprehensive readings skills 101... You could have read the article, but alas those who wish to pander to there cause so beit for one to give an opinion of their own... You should go to the UPS store on 63rd off Andreason at lets say 3pm... Tell them you have to mail an envelope that need to get to Seattle by Noon next day... They get it there at 10:30 for $8.75 ... Now go to the post office and it cost $22.45 to get there at noon... Who does it better, faster and cheaper... and UPS has a large union work force...

It is so ridiculous that anytime someone in the basement come up with something that shows how the government is wasting money, is contrary to their own beliefs( Liberal) democratic beliefs then its all about the Rep who make these claims... Come on "Boy" pull your head out long enough to see the daylight, then go back into your cave until i8t's all clear to come out...LOL...

OBTW has anyone been to the Wa State website to claim your money ...Go to this website and see if you’re entitled to money owed to you.. I hope someone is surprised....http://ucp.dor.wa.gov/

Goldie-

I'm sure if basil searched enough he could find one website that would confirm his assertations... If he just went to the HUFF post there has to be one...I mean they seem to have all the answers for the democrats and far more Liberal folks.. Heck I even read them, did I really say that.. I am so ashamed ..:(

vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4 p.m

If someone is prowling around my home, the first thing I do is call the cops and watch "him" on camera. If "he" tries to get into my house, I will warn him that I have a gun and WILL use it. If that does not deter "him" , and "he" gets in, I WILL use the gun. If I catch someone in my house, I WILL shoot first and ask questions later.

hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal



btw...the links I listed were done before I read your comment at 4:44 pm, Basil.

Regarding your need for links which informs my thinking...

ALL media outlets put a spin on their articles in order to sell their product. If they didn't they wouldn't be in business. Do I seriously need links to prove that???

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.

What if you're asleep when the perp manages to get inside your house without awakening you??? It's happened too many times to count...all the more reason why I would never own a two-story home.

I know what you mean, though. Last summer, some idiots were prowling around a neighbor's car. I changed my voice, shouted out the bathroom window that the cops have been called and that if they knew what was good for them...

They got in their car alright...just in time for the cops. Bada bing...bada boom.

But what truly bothers me is the home invasion issues, not the car prowlers. They're just idiots waiting to be caught. The ones invading the privacy of people's homes are becoming bolder each day, hawk.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.

Oh vanwa...you didn't!!! You insulted the very link some use religiously as their source for credi...credib...cough, choke, choke. (Clearing throat)...a credible(?) news source. 8)))

How many news stations claim they're first to bring you the news in the day??? How many stations claim they're on top of the news, providing the best that news has to offer??? And how many of them are actually right all the time??? Heck, 99% of the time, I can read their ticker at the bottom of the screen or their list of "newsworthy" segments which are riddled with typos or inaccuracies.

Credibility lost.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Vanwa...

another favorite of mine is

"Breaking News" events, even when they're not breaking news.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:49 p.m.

Your point? Are those to support vanwadreamer's claim?

For a family of 4, that's about 2k above the poverty line....

Maybe those complaining that they are overpaid ought to try to pass the test first. ~90% failure rate....

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*You could have read the article, but alas those who wish to pander to there cause so beit for one to give an opinion of their own...*

.....

vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.

If you are referring to the NYT article, then you really need to show us how it proves your claims of

January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.

Now, to your sole example of costs for a less than 24 hr delivery.

How about 2 day delivery? How about x country instead of Seattle?

How about to a foreign country?

How about that catalog your company wants to deliver?

Or that birthday card you remembered to send before the day before the birthday?

And you still haven't told us why it is important that your dogs like the mailman.....

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*ALL media outlets put a spin on their articles in order to sell their product. If they didn't they wouldn't be in business. Do I seriously need links to prove that???*

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

So basically, are you telling us you read every version of every event or issue every magazine, tv station, newspaper, blog, website, etc disseminates before forming an opinion?

And check all their primary sources?

And verify that none are missing any information?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 5:08 p.m.

My reasoning to share was to show there is a difference in wages earned when comparing USPS to other comparable jobs, Basil. You wanted links with data to prove vanwadreamer's claim...I just happened to find them and shared them with you. When calculating hourly wages for a mail processing clerk, USPS workers start out around $13.50 to 19.80 per hour, $29,496 - $41,256 annually, depending on experience AND working full time. The average median wage elsewhere averages $17,440 to $39,280 annually, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2009. Here's another, more accurate and informative link regarding mail clerk wages for 2011 (other than postal service workers...and it still shows a difference, Basil. 2012 information wasn't available.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes439051.htm

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

No... basically I am saying that most media sites want that jump on the hottest news event (or non event but it sounds good), shooting for that list of awards to improve their popularity and to gain profit. They know that all they have to do is print a little retraction somewhere hidden...somewhere unnoticeable in order to cover their tracks of misinformation and repeat the same trend over and over again.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...a reminder as to how the poverty level is calculated:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/about/overview/measure.html

Now say a family of four who owns their home outright, doesn't have any debts and earns a combined wage equal to or below poverty level. They don't need to rely on state assistance for food and live quite comfortably with their lifestyle...even able to save for that rainy day and have health insurance, no government aid. Do they live in poverty? Hardly, but according to national statistics, they do.

So how accurate is it when one refers to someone living in poverty if they don't see the entire picture? It's easy to say in the news that a certain percentage of people are living in poverty because of the national statistics...so how accurate is that type of news reporting, Basil?

Here's an example:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/us-poverty-census_n_1877197.html

...and another:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-12/record-u-dot-s-dot-poverty-rate-holds-as-inequality-grows

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 4:47 p.m

Sorry to disappoint but it does look like you may need to take additional Comprehensive readings skills 101... You could have read the article, but alas those who wish to pander to there cause so beit for one to give an opinion of their own... You should go to the UPS store on 63rd off Andreason at lets say 3pm... Tell them you have to mail an envelope that need to get to Seattle by Noon next day... They get it there at 10:30 for $8.75 ... Now go to the post office and it cost $22.45 to get there at noon... Who does it better, faster and cheaper... and UPS has a large union work force...

You are so full of crap.

If you take a letter to the UPS store, it has to be there before 10:30. To get it to Seattle by 8am, it's $57.05, by 10:30 it costs $23.75, by 3pm $21.15.

***BUSTED!!!***

https://wwwapps.ups.com/ctc/request?WBPM_lid=homepage/ct1.html_pnl_ctc

USPS will get it there by noon for $18.11

***DOUBLE BUSTED***

http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=13&dz;=98115&oz;=98604&pob;=0&MailingDate;=1/30/2013&MailingTime;=8:00%20AM&mt;=56

hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:36 p.m

And those prove which claim of vanwadreamer's 10:57 a.m. post ?

Claims include

"The post office is one of the single largest government wastes we have"

and

" private sector providing duplicate service at a profit "

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.

And, again. What do you use to form an informed opinion?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gold, back from work so able to answer.
I think you do need to read your sentence from yesterday - it sure sounded as if you see the prez as a man of faith believing in god as he used a bible. Too tired and lazy to go back and copy/paste but it read as if only the bible makes him a faithful one. I like to see a prez use the book of another religion! Holy cow-the outburst would be deafening. Or none at all-double outburst! Socialist! Communist! Baby killer!

What I am saying is it is politically advantageous for all our politicians to confess to be believers. I am a cynic. We were not founded as a religious country. Therefore I like a strict separation of state and church - any church. Guess so do you. Good.

Now as to where my morals come from. Well, they are based on what I see is needed to sustain a decent society. Zero to do with bible. My atheist dad left church also after being forced to endure the early life rituals and still taught me many valuable lessons. You see, I do not believe we always need to establish a link to a book or a religion. Just not necessary. That always makes me feel like people try their hardest to drag me into religion. I have to prove nothing. Show nothing. I feel there is a war on atheists in this country - why else is it still on the books that you can't run for office if you are one? Yes, still exists in states. So much for the war on Christianity.

And to finally end the religious discussion one way or another. When we assign equal importance and rights to all those religions in this country as well as to non-believers, I will be a happy Momma. In the meantime, I prefer to believe what I want and to reject what I do not believe in. I can only speak for myself.

way too long a post, way too tired.

luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 2:40 p.m.

I'm referencing the highlighted portion of the statement by vanwadreamer and your reaction.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.

So are you claiming that a decent job should be at a barely above the poverty level for an average size family? And that family should be saving and have already bought and paid for their house on that salary?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.

Here's an example for you:

"I really believe that going forward, while you and I are alive, that we are going to have everything. We are going to have newspapers, and we are going to have the kind of hybrid that the Huffington Post is, which is basically a combination of, as you said, *rearranging the miscellaneous news with our own attitude and our own choice of what goes on the front page*.

- Arianna Huffington statement in a one ON one interview with David Weinberger:

http://www.wired.com/business/2007/05/this_is_the_fut/

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:07 p.m

*In addition the government pays too much money for jobs that are really minimum wage jobs, which require little training. vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.*

How do you know, like cite some sources, that vanwadreamer's claim that there is "little training" required and that the jobs are "really minimum wage jobs"?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.

Luv...I agree with you. There is a persecution against atheists by some, just as there is a persecution against those who believe in a religious entity....sometimes more often than not. Sad, but true. As far as I'm concerned, we're all living, breathing humans who need to accept the differences in order to successfully exist on this beautiful planet we live. Thanks for your explanation. I do take what you say into consideration. I may not always agree, but that's what makes the world go 'round...8)

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:14 p.m.

And just what sources are your "... own choice of what goes on the front page."?

mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


seasoning leaf-remember that? No offense intended.

Your questioning of these claims is valid. Luv to see the claims justified.

For what it's worth, we run a small business from our home. The USPS is fantastic. They deliver all the documents we need. We, on occasion, will go out to the UPS store in Washougal and send articles. The USPS office in Camas is VERY helpful, as is the one in Washougal.

FedEx and UPS can't/won't/are unable to send stuff to our customers in Alaska for what the USPS can and will do. I think the salary/benefit package of a mail carrier (or an employee) is simply another case of "I want good paying jobs in MY communtity, with the wages & benefits, but I don't want to pay for them"-have the other guy pay for it.

mrd — January 29, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:12 p.m.

Did I say that? Seems to me the point I was trying to convey to you IS the fact that many people live on a lot less and do it comfortably BECAUSE they have managed their lives equitably and have found other means to survive on less...NOT living their lives on how much they've made in a year. It's a mindset I believe the economists globally have tried to shift our minds into thinking more is better which isn't the case, depending on lifestyle.

I know, you're going to ask for proof of that. Well my friend, I'm a step ahead of ya:

My favorite link:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Modern-Homesteading/2007-10-01/Live-on-Less.aspx

...and another

http://www.helium.com/items/2407894-successful-living-beneath-the-poverty-line

Life Lessons Learned!

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:19 p.m.

Please clarify.

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Arnett, where art thou? I await a most raucous contest. Your challanging afront to my LTTE weighs upon me heavily. Come now sir, allow me to defend myself.

Or do you not dare?

Jim_Kennedy — January 29, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ah yes...getting back to those links on wages of mail clerks. Only the USPS provided benefits package information. The only way to tell regarding other institutions who hire mail clerks is checking out each individual site. Some may not provide any benefits whatsoever (except maybe health insurance for those who work full time.)

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: I have been reading your responses and I am enjoying them immensely. You make such good points, even for one who claims to be tired. :)

I was watching the excellent HBO series John Adams again last night. One of my favorite scenes is when Ben Franklin and John Adams are giving Thomas Jefferson pointers on his draft of The Declaration of Independence (as if he needed any, d'uh).

Ben Franklin axed the word "sacred" complaining that it "smacked of the pulpit."

The desire for separation of church and state goes back a long way in this country. Too bad it is not practiced reliably.

manthou — January 29, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Manthou, exactly! I am still waiting for that separation.

Swear oath - if you have to- on constitution during political ceremonies. Take out certain phrases that were put into things during McCarthy era. Stop acting like it was ever so the case.

Wasn't old Ben smart?? Pulpit = Sunday church if you so desire. Rest of the week = not so much.

luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — January 29, 2013 at 6:27 p.m
I use Camas post office myself. LOVE that place. LOVE the guy with the white beard. We call him Santa Claus actually. Knows us when we walk in and typically asks if we are sending rest of our money to the college kid. Nice to have such personal and friendly service. No letter/box was ever late, and price of post office quite reasonable compared to the others.

Why would we ever get rid of such an institution? Fix what's wrong and keep it. Don't force it into going broke by implementing such an unreasonable mandate that no other agency has to carry.

luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.

A bit of a history lesson for you -

The suggestion of adding "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was made in 1948, two years before McCarthy era began. It was a joint resolution by the US Congress (approval by both house and senate) on June 14, 1954 that changed the flag code.

Also...President Lincoln chose to say "So Help Me God" when sworn into office AND it is reported he kissed the Bible as well. The judiciary Act of 1789 included the phrase "So Help Me God" in the oath in the swearing in of all judges and officers other than the president, although several presidents did prefer to say it.

Was it to be PC or were they strong believers in the guidance of God in giving them the strength to make the decisions they had to make???

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Zeitgeist Goldie, Zeitgeist.

luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 6:46 p.m.

I have the same situation in Battle Ground. The people at the post office are great but what I like the most is that I can go online and get a shipping label and pay for postage on a package to the kids at college all in one stop and it's cheap for Priority mail. It doesn't matter how much it weighs (like UPS) it's all the same price and it gets there in 2-3 days. EVERY TIME.

I agree, fix it and keep it.

hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit/hawk/mrd/basil/whoever-

Living overseas the post office was a .. Godsend {:0. Efficient and some of the best folks in the service work our MPS@CMR's. It's all through the USPS. It's a lifeline for service members and families.

Then there's the I.G. aspect. Not too many CEO's have to answer to Congress for oversight.

Then there's the security aspect. I got to know our Postal Inspector in Germany pretty well. And believe me, he's got some stories.

Not to mention it's dust binning a nice part of Ben Franklin's legacy and ruining one of America's oldest and beneficial institutions.

I think many take a position on this without thinking it through.

It's that hate for government and government entities so many bring to the table.

Much of it low information and/or anti-American in my opinion.

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=julwTe5jfG8

Many of the Tea Party ilk have no idea as to the why's and what's of policies their leaders endorse and expect them to follow. If padding republican leaders wallets, not just with this, but with health care, pharmaceutical industry, the gun lobby, etc. is part of their ideology than they're on track.

We need to look into motivating factors for much of this "needed reform" that flows from the right's pipe.

Much of it is has a pungent odor. And not the good kind.

nailingit — January 29, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Anybody been reading the FB side lately? Man, that Jon Alldritt is an idiot.

hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I sometimes read the FB side for entertainment purposes only. I don't think any of these self-expression opportunities represent a true cross section of our citizens, this Forum included. :)

Every so often, however, I am impressed with one or two wise comments that leap out. One gentleman, for example, was weighing in on the noise created by the arrest of the homeowner who shot and killed the alleged prowler yesterday morning. He talked about the legal concept of "proportionality" as a reason why gun owners just can't go out and shoot anyone willy nilly, no matter what you believe they are doing. Prowling, if true, does not warrant a death sentence, in other words. I liked that one.

The press loves to gin that crowd up, too, I think. I noticed that they chose to publish the shooter's MySpace photo when he was dressed in camouflage, NOT his Marine dress blues. They had a choice and the camouflage image provided a negative connotation by comparison.

I have way too much time on my hands this week . . . . .

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 5:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 29, 2013 at 10:52 p.m.

Nice that you can make such a derogatory comment about someone you disagree...someone who no longer posts on this forum. You call the man an idiot. Do you know him personally???

From what I've discussed with Jon in the past on and away from the C, he's quite intelligent and friendly. Although sometimes we agreed to disagree...we remained civil with each other, accepting the fact that everyone has a differing opinion unless they're someone's puppet on a string.

Glad to hear he's still posting...sharing his insight into subjects brought up on the C. Keeps some of you hopping.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 29, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.

The power of one word...

*zeitgeist: (Noun) The defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.*

I understand what you're saying...but it's the very foundation of our existence with regards to religion in our lives and it continues through the generations. It didn't remain in the past. Saying it isn't so, doesn't make it go away. Since our current president has utilized the Bible and prayer as well as reference to God in his Oath of Office in his inauguration festivities as did most of his predecessors...seems to me, it's still ongoing and is not something of the past. What is in the past is Theodore Roosevelt's omission of "So Help Me God" when he took the oath of office. Since then...Hand on Bible, "So Help Me God," even as much as a prayer or a kiss of the Bible has been done. In the past? Hardly.

No PC, no tradition...choice by each incoming president. A choice of method...a choice of words...a choice of actions.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: Add "perseveration" to your Dictionary look up task for the day.

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone else think David Frum makes good sense once in awhile? This conservative media whiz carries a great deal of credibility with me (and others, I think) for his fair and responsible advocacy on ethical journalism.

The viral video of the Sandy Hook grieving father being "heckled" at a public meeting was tightly edited to give a false impression to news consumers.

Read about it here:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/30/the-newtown-heckling-controversy.html

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Reading comments here and FB you'd never know. For those living in a bubble.

**President Obama’s popularity surges to three-year high**

President Obama is riding a wave of personal popularity into his second term, with his highest favorability ratings since his first year in office, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Fully 60 percent of Americans have a favorable impression of Obama in the new poll, up slightly from October but a clear shift in opinion from an election year in which his ratings hovered in the mid-to-low 50s. And by 39 percent to 26 percent, the president now has more “strongly” positive ratings than strongly negative reviews, breaking a two-year stretch in which intense opposition was on par with (or higher than) intense support.

Obama’s inaugural address earned fewer positive marks and appears to have served mainly as a pep rally, with raving reviews from supporters and plenty of yawns from his opponents.

While the speech drew twice as many cheers as jeers — 51 percent approved while 24 percent disapproved — a quarter of Americans had no opinion on the speech. More than eight in 10 Democrats approved of Obama’s second inaugural, but at least three in 10 Republicans and independents have no reaction at all.

Whatever the reactions to the speech, Obama’s general likability has improved across a variety of constituencies, including a wavering base and the political middle. Obama’s favorable ratings have climbed by double digits since last year among liberals, racial minorities and people under age 40. Among each group, at least two-thirds now see Obama positively.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/30/president-obamas-popularity-surges-to-three-year-high/

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — January 30, 2013 at 6:22 a.m.

Only if you look up the following words for your day:

*Scurrilous*

*Presumptuous*

*Sycophant*

Have a nice day.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfx...

..

**Jon Stewart Bulldozes Glenn Beck's 'Independence, USA', Calls It A 'Marxist Utopia' (VIDEO)**

First conservatives wanted to secede from the union, now they just want to build their own super-gated (with freedom) communities. And, of course, one of the leading proponents of a libertarian intentional community (don't call it a commune, hippie) is the internet's Glenn Beck.

And not a moment too soon; it's been ages since Jon Stewart had a good reason to take a whack at America's favorite nut job.

But there's something fishy here. Beck's vision of true independence sounds at turns more Marxist, and at others more Hitlerian. In these two clips, Jon Stewart breaks down Beck's town plans and reveals them to be the stuff of nightmares more than dreams. (Who doesn't listen to Bruce on the 4th of July?) Watch part one above and part two below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/jon-stewart-glenn-beck-independence-usa_n_2581102.html

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The suggestion of adding "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was made in 1948, two years before McCarthy era began.*

goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.

You are oversimplifying history. Look at the zeitgeist; e.g. HUAC was formed in '47 ....

Look at the zeitgeist in the late '30s with Steinbeck being called a Communist or a Socialist for writing *The Grapes of Wrath*

Look at the zeitgeist surrounding Aimee Semple McPherson.

Read up on the zeitgeist of Upton Sinclair's critics in the late 30's - early 40's.

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 5:47 a.m.

You know what goldie, he might be a very smart man but when you post online like this, you are only known in a single dimension. If your spelling and sentence structure are your only voice, you should make sure they are clear. You wouldn't go to a job interview in your pajamas, would you? Well, maybe YOU would.

hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:31 p.m.

That is a quote from the source you cited.

You still can't or won't cite a source for what informs your opinion.

AH's description of how we can amalgamate a range of sources of our own choosing was all your quote covered. In other words, self-biased.

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 8:10 a.m.

He gets his point across, hawk. Just because it differs from you, doesn't make a person an idiot. Regarding a job interview...don't know where that's coming from but no need for that for me. Pajama-wearing folk either don't have anything else to wear or they're stuck in the mentality of society's fashion flaws.

Nice that you choose to go on the attack rather than understand my POV. Sooooo typical of you.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.

Wow, you don't get it either.

But then again, you think you have a "point of view" when in fact you only have a weak defense.

And I have better things to do today than waste my time on you.

hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil, you took only a fragment of the entire quote I presented which was an example of the cited source provided which clearly describes exactly what it was I discussed. If you have a problem with that source, then maybe you have a problem with what you read on huffpo as well, since it was Arianna's own words. She clearly defined the definition of manipulation of readers to suit their needs when seeking information that follows their ideals, Basil. I gave a snippet AND the link for you and others to read...and she clearly goes on to define her "Hybrid." This is another segment of the same link which further explains her intent with Huffington Post:

*"We are going to have newspapers, and we are going to have the kind of hybrid that the Huffington Post is, which is basically a combination of, as you said, rearranging the miscellaneous news with our own attitude and our own choice of what goes on the front page."*

It is my belief that the "hybrid" she speaks of is the faux news we are witnessing on all media outlets...a combination of news with inaccuracies and creativity to attract attention...hybrid media outlets who thrive on profits and gains...not on telling the news as it is.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal



**Commonwealth of Belle Isle: The world's next city-state?**

"Now, a group of wealthy investors want to buy Detroit’s island park for $1 billion, secede from Michigan, and develop the 982 acres into the Commonwealth of Belle Isle, a Singapore-like city-state with its own laws, customs, and currency.

Real estate developer Rodney Lockwood Jr. has laid out the idea in a new book of political fiction that would make Ayn Rand proud.

In fact, the new Belle Isle would replace dollars with “Rands.”

Lockwood’s book envisions Belle Isle 30 years in the future after an economic boom and its emergence as a “Midwest Tiger”—a place with zero deficit and no income taxes."

http://www.michiganradio.org/post/commonwealth-belle-isle-worlds-next-city-state

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 8:32 a.m.

Weak defense??? Have better things to do today???

And that's your response???

lolololololol Your the one who called Jon an idiot with no basis other than pointing to a response on a social networking site, not me.

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Something for everyone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kvWCl...

Research has shown that music therapy can minimize stress in humans as well as reduce pain levels, blood pressure, heart and respiratory rates, anxiety and emotional distress and can be a boon to children in the classroom.

And non-humans, studies show, appear to respond in the same way. Previous research has demonstrated that classical music has a calming effect on a wide spectrum of animals — everything from elephants to dogs to rodents — and may even stimulate plant growth.

http://wosu.org/2012/classical101/can-classical-music-calm-your-cat-researchers-think-so/

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal



*It is my belief that the "hybrid" she speaks of is the faux news we are witnessing on all media outlets...a combination of news with inaccuracies and creativity to attract attention...hybrid media outlets who thrive on profits and gains...not on telling the news as it is.*

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:33 a.m

What part of the quote leads you to that conclusion? AH is discussing how the user / consumer can customize their input.

Which is what I asked you for. What sources do you input to inform your thinking.

Just complaining about a perceived lack of accuracy, just complaining about some conspiracy to keep you uninformed actually highlights the point that you are not citing what informs your thinking or what supports your conclusions.

Basically, you are continuing on you claim about the Pope being misrepresented when it turns out the sources were his church's translations. Now you are conflating that issue with some perceived issue of the whole news / media industry, all of its constituents, all the sources, all the platforms.

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6OedB...

And to be fair & balanced...

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 29, 2013 at 6:29 p.m

There is a reason for establishing a poverty level that (except for limited areas) is uniform across the country.

There is a substantive amount of data that supports those figures; a nation full of participants in our economy.

And using a example that is more akin to an outlier than the norm doesn't alter those statistics.

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*.not on telling the news as it is.*

goldenoldie — January 30, 2013 at 8:33 a.m

So, how do you know that? Do you have non-news sources that show you how the news is inaccurate?

How do you know those sources aren't complicit with that conspiracy?

Who is telling you the news is "..a combination of news with inaccuracies and creativity to attract attention...".

What sources do you use to inform your thinking?

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmmm wonder if the 40+ deaths due to guns in Chicago so far just this month are counted in that??

One thing, those deaths in Chicago were law biding citizens, the criminals are the ones doing the shooting.

ELISI — January 30, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — January 30, 2013 at 9:25 a.m.

Not so odd that you missed that you can narrow the parameters two different ways on the Slate Gun Deaths since Newton.

And used that to imply that there is data missing (FYI; it shows 52 deaths in Chicago since Newton)

And then jumped to a claim that all those deaths were " law biding citizens" without offering a shred of evidence.

mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY0M7I...

A lot of this sounds all too familiar.

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7P...

You can't pound wooden nails into a rock.

One might argue these interviews are selected to show bias.

I'd argue they're a proper representation of today's conservative.

Just look at Face Book and a few who post here.

Not intending to be derogatory, but if you're vocal about policies you're against then support your statements with fact, sound reasoning and precedent when asked.

Don't find a place to hide with non-responses, or shout from behind a wall with attempted personal attacks.

Think!

nailingit — January 30, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wonderful to see Gabrielle Giffords speak today before the Senate!

Beautiful lady has come a long way!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gabrielle-giffords-to-testify-at-senate-hearing-on-gun-violence/2013/01/29/ffba6a30-6a61-11e2-95b3-272d604a10a3_story.html?wpisrc=nl_most

ELISI — January 30, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Strict Gun Laws in Chicago Can’t Stem Fatal Shots

CHICAGO — Not a single gun shop can be found in this city because they are outlawed. Handguns were banned in Chicago for decades, too, until 2010, when the United States Supreme Court ruled that was going too far, leading city leaders to settle for restrictions some describe as the closest they could get legally to a ban without a ban. Despite a continuing legal fight, Illinois remains the only state in the nation with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

And yet Chicago, a city with no civilian gun ranges and bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, finds itself laboring to stem a flood of gun violence that contributed to more than 500 homicides last year and at least 40 killings already in 2013, including a fatal shooting of a 15-year-old girl on Tuesday.

To gun rights advocates, the city provides stark evidence that even some of the toughest restrictions fail to make places safer. “The gun laws in Chicago only restrict the law-abiding citizens and they’ve essentially made the citizens prey,” said Richard A. Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. To gun control proponents, the struggles here underscore the opposite — a need for strict, uniform national gun laws to eliminate the current patchwork of state and local rules that allow guns to flow into this city from outside.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us/strict-chicago-gun-laws-cant-stem-fatal-shots.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

ELISI — January 30, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi at 11:38 am: So glad you took the time to post the link of Gabrielle Giffords's testimony on the gun violence hearing today in the Senate.

It was beyond moving. Extraordinary. Nothing will reach the hearts and minds of those who can actually do something than a survivor's plea.

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil,

*vanwadreamer — January 29, 2013 at 4:47 p.m* BUSTED...

I guess if you call up and ask that question you might be pointed in that direction, But after speaking with the manager he enlightened me to the alternative way to ship...
They even send by ground .... Which is why it gets there next day.. I send several a month that way and have for a couple years.... You can send it other ways through them but this is my preferred way...It's still the same price it has been...
I know some want to argue htere point here I was just pointing out how some alternative companies can handle the mail different if not better....

*I can go online and get a shipping label and pay for postage on a package to the kids at college all in one stop and it's cheap for Priority mail. It doesn't matter how much it weighs (like UPS) it's all the same price and it gets there in 2-3 days. EVERY TIME.
I agree, fix it and keep it*.
That's becasue the taxpayer subsidizes the USPS... Wow...
Hey I'll use the USPS if it's a better cost effective way to go, don't get me wrong, and it is in some cases, just not all.. Big difference between $9 bucks and $23 a couple times a month.....

I see Wa State wants is mulling the idea of raising the B&O; tax again... I'm sure every business person is loving that....

vanwadreamer — January 30, 2013 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow, whodathunkit?

The shootings occurred during a Senate hearing on gun violence where former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., made a brief statement urging new gun control measures. Giffords was critically wounded in a mass shooting in Tucson, Ariz., in 2011.

Giffords' husband, Mark Kelly, broke the news of Wednesday's shooting to members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, interrupting his own answer to a question from Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn.

"While we were having this hearing, ... in Phoenix, Arizona, there is another what seems to be, possibly, a shooting with multiple victims," he said.

mrd — January 30, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Earthquake? Did anyone else feel their house shake violently? Just now. Yikes.

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou- Yep, my office chair did it's own little jig, with me in it!!

soapbox4u — January 30, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank the stars, soap, we're not hallucinating. It was a doozy. Felt like a semi truck hit the side of my home.

I'd better go check the lathe and plaster on this old girl. The house, that is. :)

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Columbian posted this link if you want to pinpoint your location and describe your earthquake experience.

It felt very strong to me, so I am surprised it was so far away:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/uw60503391#dyfi

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Southern California transplant here. We certainly had four seasons, drought, fire, flood, and earthquake. The Northridge and Sylmar quakes were fun to ride out....

soapbox4u — January 30, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Soap, same. Northridge was terrible. I had to to drive through there afterwards- just awful to see damage. I also remember Wittier quake. And a few others. Sure don't miss them. Nor the fires.

luvithere — January 30, 2013 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was sitting right here and didn't feel or hear a thing. We are just South of Lewisville Park off 503.

hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***BREAKING NEWS***

Hackers in China Attacked The Times for Last 4 Months

For the last four months, Chinese hackers have persistently attacked The New York Times, infiltrating its computer systems and getting passwords for its reporters and other employees.
After surreptitiously tracking the intruders to study their movements and help erect better defenses to block them, The Times and computer security experts have expelled the attackers and kept them from breaking back in.
The timing of the attacks coincided with the reporting for a Times investigation, published online on Oct. 25, that found that the relatives of Wen Jiabao, China’s prime minister, had accumulated a fortune worth several billion dollars through business dealings.

hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I was just reading about the Chinese hackers. It appears that they were not happy with an investigative piece the NYT was conducting.

I also read recently that Janet Napolitano and others are warning of a cyber attack that will rival 9/11 in terms of hobbling the US economy.

Too much doom and gloom.

But hey, we survived the earthquake. You didn't even feel it! Amazing. It shook my entire house. Felt like a car crashed into it.

manthou — January 30, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal



According to a news report, a certain private Catholic school was recently faced with a unique problem.A number of girls were beginning to use lipstick and would put it on in the bathroom. That was fine provided it was of a natural or neutral skin tone, but after they put on their lipstick, they would press their lips to the mirror leaving dozens of little lip prints.

Every night the maintenance man would remove them; and the next day the girls would put them back.Finally, the principal, Sister Mary, decided that something had to be done. She called all the girls to the bathroom and met them there with the maintenance man. She explained that all these lip prints were causing a major problem for the custodian, who had to clean the mirrors every night (you can just imagine the yawns from the little princesses).

To demonstrate how difficult it had been to clean the mirrors, Sister Mary asked the maintenance man to show the girls how much effort was required. He took out a long-handled squeegee, dipped it in the toilet, and cleaned the mirror with it.

Since then, there have been no lip prints on the mirror.

There are teachers...... And then there are educators!

hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 10:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I thought this comment summed it up well.

Troy Maxcy-Top Commenter

So these is how big business and their interests purchase our politics? We already know that David spent 3x plus the amount that he would earn in a year for the purchase of his seat and know he wants to hire his own outside staff to help him run the county. This is how those of us without deep pockets lose our voice, when wealthy men are allowed to buy and sell their personal agendas in public office. And so it begins...

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ja...

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola: I agree with most of your points @ 6:46 am. A poster named alleycat, way back when, used to complain that Clark County was rife with nepotism and conflicts-of-interest in terms of hiring.

Let me add this BIG point that Steve Stuart made: risk of confidentiality breaches abound with this cozy set up. HR would have no ability to discipline this personal assistant should she violate county policy (which she sounds like she is already doing by giving tasks to county administrators to do).

This is Madore doing his own thing, at the expense of ethics.

I suppose the County could develop a job, using Madore's money, and go through a legal hiring process. This does not mean that his favorite "girl Friday" would be hired.

This is so deeply mired in muck, I pity the city attorney's office.

The Columbian staffers must be rockin' and rollin' in the newsroom with all this stuff going on: earthquakes; police and citizen deadly shootings; David Madore on the loose.

Remember: I predicted that Madore would run head on into an ethics or law violation.

manthou — January 31, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Felt the earthquake at my home, yesterday. It literally felt like someone was trying to lift the couch I was sitting on...like the house had a rolling wave pass under it, then a loud thump. Everything in the house rattled...a couple of creaking sounds and it was over within a few seconds.

A friend of mine who endured the Northridge Earthquake in SanFran, said that although they've experienced many earthquakes in their growing years, they'd never experienced one like that. My response to the friend..."Welcome to the Pacific Northwest."

Makes for an interesting conversation.

goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I also want to add: While the commissioners were wrangling about this for 2 plus hours, the REAL work that county needs to get done was on the shelf.

I must hand it to Mielke, who seems to have found some independence and parts of his brain stem again.

manthou — January 31, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops...that's the Bay Area quake, not the Northridge in LA. Sorry about that.

goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — January 30, 2013 at 10:59 p.m.

A classic!!!

goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It appears Mr. Arnett has chosen not to debate the merits of my LTTE at this venue. So beit.

In light of that, I bid you good people adieu.

You *are* an interesting bunch, I must say.

Jim_Kennedy — January 31, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 30, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

Maybe these will give you an idea as to how I have come to my conclusion:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/08/03/huffington-post-forced-to-issue-retraction-apology-after-falsely-accusing/

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2012/11/19/cnns-cooper-retracts-video-palestinian-man-faking-injury

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/cnn-retraction_b50414

Interesting article regarding the problem of retractions lately - http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/345465/description/Misconduct_prompts_most_retractions

Just to name a few. If they'd taken the time to write or tell the story correctly the first time, they wouldn't be red faced and forced into printing or announcing retractions. A conspiracy? No. Inaccuracies? Yes. They're too busy trying to get the news out without verifying the source. I haven't even touched on the retractions hidden somewhere in newsprint which is all but distinguishable as a retraction...usually tucked between two advertisements so nobody notices, but it fulfills their obligation to say they're sorry for screwing up.

Now if you cannot accept these links, then too bad for you. I'm through being a pawn in your mind game, Basil. It is what it is.

goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — January 29, 2013 at 6:17 p.m.

Look them up yourself...any job site...even "Indeed" to get you started. Several ask for minimum requirements of a high school diploma, able to read and write and can lift 50 lbs...and they must pass certain requirements as to residency status, criminal background checks...etc.

Most "foot in the door" jobs ask for the same.

Game over.

goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Temple Lentz has already weighed in on Madore's personal assistant in a very funny and effective way.

[link text][1]

She mentions a big point, too: if Madore uses private email and private cell phones for his private assistant, public records laws are broken. There is no disclosure requirement in the public sector.

How do we keep this guy honest? He shows an amazing lack of understanding of how government agencies work, or should work.

[1]: http://dailycouve.blogspot.com

manthou — January 31, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In the fyi if anyone cares department, Chuck Hagel's confirmation hearing is happening. Pretty heated and he's handling himself well.

I like this guy. He thinks twice and three times before sending our boys off to war.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrap- As alley you derided this guy, and now you seem to think he's on some kind of puritanical mission, in spite of numerous ethically challenged decisions he's made since taking office.

Now you're schilling for him.

I have to ask, are you employed in any way shape or form by Madore, or have you ever received monies from him for any services rendered?

I'll take a non-response as yes?

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Never in my life I have received anything from anybody nailingit.*

We all work. We all either currently or in the past have received monies for work performed from various employers. Given your passion for robotics and your County advisory acumen, and considering your encounter/s with Madore and your obvious change of heart, I think it's a fair question to ask. Please qualify your statement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be combative but rather understand.

Why the turn around? What has Madore done to cause a 180 in your opinion? Is this not the guy who greeted outsiders with a life sized cardboard cut out of George Bush?

Did you look at his books? Any defense contracts which in the past you cited as a cause for concern? Have you found religion? Did he charm your pants off?

Lured you in with his infectious smile? :}}}

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal



*Nice try Nail.* Is that your response to "Please qualify your statement."?

Only trying to get specifics on your drastic turnaround.

Sometimes a non answer can be taken as...

Anyway, I think most of us want the best bang for our buck.

The ethically challenged direction DM is moving only taints government and it's image more than it already is.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal



The only problem with Hagel is he doesn't make the decision on deployment of soldiers... That is up too our President who seems bent on sending "MY" boys anywhere he wants even when he doesn't ask congress to do so....

Hagel Comments
*Hagel clarifies his comments. He said he meant the pro-Israel lobby and instead of saying the lobby can intimidate some, he should have said it can influence people.
Lots of I-said-this-but-I-meant-that happening in this hearing. Hagel’s an outspoken guy and that has landed him in hot water a many times*

Typical politician... I meant to say this , that’s what I meant...
Best quote from hagel at the hearings..
“*I always ask the question is this going to be worth the sacrifice? Because there will be sacrifice,” Hagel says*. That is an awesome statement….
So why are we in Afghanistan still??????? Oh yes that's a question for the presdient....I doubt he would answer that though...

vanwadreamer — January 31, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Nail, he probably went to one of David's "meet-n-greet" deals at his business and got slipped a fifty when they shook hands. That and that winning smile was all it took.

As for me, you all know how much I support David and his little foray into politics. This is just another try at doing his job without having to work that hard. He seems to need someone to do his grunt work (it's beneath him and tedious) so he can get to the really big, news-making stuff. It's important that he gets the most bang for his buck, that election cost him a bundle.

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa @ 10:22

*The only problem with Hagel is he doesn't make the decision on deployment of soldiers...*

Every President looks to their cabinet before going to war and after. Sec Def. carries a lot of weight. The fact Obama chose Hagel understanding his positions says much.

As far as Israel goes, I'm glad we'll have someone in there that won't suck up to Israel. Wait till Hillary gets in.

Israel gets a free pass from most, particularly from the right and their leadership, in part because Evangelical Christians believe Jews are God's chosen people. Just as Evangelicals believe that by being "born again" they are somehow spiritually birthed into the Hebrew nation.

So in the long run Israeli/American politics become nothing more than protecting Israel, which is predicated in part on delusional self serving religious interests.

I don't have anything against the Jewish folk, just like I don't Germans, Iranians, Americans, Palestinians, etc., but with Netanyahu in power, they're global influence is reduced to nothing more than that of a weakened theocratic democracy full of human rights violations and never ending talks of warmongering.

Not much different than *our* southern states but still...

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye 10:23- *This is just another try at doing his job without having to work that hard. He seems to need someone to do his grunt work (it's beneath him and tedious) so he can get to the really big, news-making stuff.*

I think you nailed it!

Elitism raises it's ugly head in many ways.

And most definitely exists on both sides of the aisle.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Alex Echols, Boy With Autism, Gets Medical Marijuana To Manage Self-Destructive Rages (VIDEO)**

Heartbroken and desperate, an Oregon family has turned to medical marijuana to help manage their son's self-destructive rages. They say the treatment, which has sparked controversy, has helped their child, described as "severely autistic," like nothing else has.

According to KPTV, 11-year-old Alex Echols suffers from tuberous sclerosis -- a rare genetic disorder that causes the growth of non-malignant tumors in organs. Doctors say Alex has growths in his brain that have led to autism, debilitating seizures and self-directed rages.

Writing in a blog he set up for his son, dad Jeremy Echols explains that Alex often exhibits extreme, self-destructive behavior, such as slamming his head into walls and slapping his face until it bleeds.

Echols says that after trying -- and failing -- for years to protect Alex from himself, he and his wife were forced to move their son into a state-funded group home when he was 8.

"Alex had every family of behavior medication known to the psychiatrist, and we tried private behavior therapy," Alex's mom Karen wrote on the family's Facebook page, the New York Daily News notes.

"We tried some swimming for a while, we had a special sensory room set up in the garage, and we did some stuff at home and at school with communication techniques to try and help him tell us what he needed before he got into a rage fit... We tried a lot of stuff before we considered the group home."

Then, in 2009, Alex's mom stumbled upon some articles about medical marijuana treatments for children with autism and rage. Interest piqued, the family decided to try the controversial treatment.

By the following year, a doctor had approved Alex for use of the drug. The boy's transformation following treatment, his family says, was astounding.

"Eventually we had some truly amazing results," Alex's dad wrote on his blog. "He explored his world with his hands, something he was very rarely able to do. His hands were the enemy up to this point ... But on those few truly magical days when we got the dosing just right, he played. He used his hands to explore. He looked at us and smiled."

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/alex-echols-marijuana-autistic-rages_n_2552004.html

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, back to food....

I made a meatloaf last night and it was GREAT, if I do say so myself. A pound of ground beef (90%), a pound of ground sweet Italian sausage, 1 onion, 1 jar of Harry and Davids onion and pepper relish (half in the mix and half on top), a couple pieces of stale bread torn into small pieces, 2 eggs, a splash of milk, some assorted spices, a clove of garlic, and a cup or so of oatmeal. Mix well put into a loaf pan and cook at 350 for 1 hour and 15-30 minutes.

Just saying....

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail

Interesting take, Wait till Hillary gets in where? Not much different than Southern states, can you clarify that sentence...

vanwadreamer — January 31, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Wait till Hillary gets in where?*

President.

Hillary has been a long time advocate for a two state solution (something Romney dismissed in his "47%" vid), and has been criticized much on the right for speaking out for Palestinian rights, most memorable during Bill's admin.

*Not much different than Southern states, can you clarify that sentence...*

they're global influence is reduced to nothing more than that of a weakened theocratic democracy full of human rights violations and never ending talks of warmongering.

Not much different than our southern states but still...

A little tongue and cheek vanwa, please don't berate me for it. **;**)

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk - The relish mix sounds like a good idea. I use 80% burger myself; have to drain it while cooking, but I buy into that more fat leads to tastier beef. One question - Why the splash of milk?

roger — January 31, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It adds a little something to the oatmeal when mixing. Makes it a little smoother.

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: Where can I get H and D's relish? Online? Never thought of adding that to meatloaf, but it sounds delicious.

Maybe you should start a food blog :)

manthou — January 31, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails - Don't you be badmouthing our Southern states!!! I have fond memories of my younger days spent in North Carolina - collecting those little ring neck snakes, hassling water moccasins, pulling sassafras (sp?) roots to brew into tea, throwing rocks at hornets nests, and just generally raising hell. And they really know how to cook up some good food back there; some of the best in the world. What do we have here beside fish?

roger — January 31, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Harry & Davids is at the Woodburn outlet mall also at the Troutdale one. It's also great mixed with cream cheese as a dip. One jar to two packages of cream cheese. We buy it by the case.

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, don't forget lightning bugs!

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *those little ring neck snakes, hassling water moccasins, pulling sassafras (sp?) roots to brew into tea, throwing rocks at hornets nests, and just generally raising hell.*

Sounds like today's Congress! :)

Agreed on the food. I stayed in Arkansas for a couple weeks and man, incredible munchies. I suppose it explains the disproportionate southern obesity issues.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1909406,00.html

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, that sounds like a pretty dent meat loaf. I usually skip those as I find them so boring to eat. But I might try your recipe myself.
As to your comments re DM, I agree. He ain't going to last if he does not shape up a bit. And where is the flood gate of jobs? Seems he never talks about that these days. But then, here in east county we got our Lizzie Pike whose campaign web site and material said she had a plan to jump start our economy. Naturally, she never said what the plan was (I wonder if it also involved 5 little points). All she did so far is make a case to arm the Camas teachers. Right. Haven't heard peep from her on jobs yet.

luvithere — January 31, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


dent meatloaf? Nice spelling I had there. I meant decent.

luvithere — January 31, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — January 31, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

Funny, I thought that was some kind of new slang.

I'm waiting for those floodgates myself. I could use some part-time wages, for toys, you know.

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 7:54 a.m.

So your wholesale damnation of all news sources hinges on a few examples.

Good to know.

So, you won't or can't cite what you consider reliable sources.

So, you won't or can't describe the rubric you use to decide which are reliable sources.

Good to know. Guess we can put your comments in the same pot as those of Ray, Bob, Jon, Lance, and Dave......

mr_basil_seal — January 31, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Please tell me this is a joke, ok? If true...How in the hell do they expect any family to afford it???? This is the cheapest?????

**IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family**

(CNSNews.com) – In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

ELISI — January 31, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — January 31, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.

Odd then they would be required to take a test that has a ~90% failure rate.

And a job that has quite a higher responsibility level.

So, to surmise; vanwadreamer makes some claims - then doesn't bother to attempt to support them - then you jump to vwd's support.
Without a shred of evidence either.

So, back to typical unsupported RW talking points that yet again don't hold up to a basic level of scrutiny.

Good to know

mr_basil_seal — January 31, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I make a pretty mean meatloaf myself! Try adding a loose 1/4 cup of brown sugar to your next pound and a 1/2 meatloaf cook. (Hey Now!) But seriously, I've found it to add good flavor.

Left over meatloaf is the best part! Try putting a fairly thin slice of left over loaf on Grandma's Sycamore's white bread (buttered on one side) with a slice of American cheese. Then grill it like a grilled cheese on medium heat. When feeling really decadent I add fresh bacon/xtra onion. Add some catsup, BBQ sauce or tomato and it's a go!

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- I've been checking out Face Book lately. You guys on the CRC threads can get pretty personal. Or is it considered personal? I guess since FB identities are assumed accurate in a sense it is getting personal.

You boys behave yourselves. I'm surprised we never hear much about FB inspired assault!

Most are decent and well thought, but a few of you guys...

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I hope craig_brown wasn't scared off.

craig if you're out there, it was good to have fresh opinion.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrap- I like your ideas @ 3:35.

We know local business leaders won't pitch in to a large degree. And the one's like DM preach against any tax increases while getting corporate tax breaks that bring them personal profit.

*Build a theater and a stadium. Do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

We almost had the Bears. That would have been something. I agree. Community.

We have to remember, local government plays a central role in our community.

We have a group trying to destroy it.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — January 31, 2013 at 3:35 p.m

You know, if they got rid of that silly airport on this side of the ditch, they could free up a lot of good space to build something "meaningful". We need a real draw, you are right. I don't know about towers, creates congestion. Maybe some kind of theme park. And the downtown streets need to be revamped, it's impossible to tell if a street is one way or two way and the curbs stick way out into the intersections on some streets so you have to pull into traffic to see if anybody is coming. They need to clean it up. Hey, maybe they could make it free wifi in all of downtown. It's a thought.

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Make it like seventies Vegas! Beautiful hotels, fantastic food, business conventions, great entertainment headliners, single deck black jack, hookers lining the streets, great sports books, broadway productions, the Lido De Paris for Christ's sake!

VanVegas!

I haven't figured out the solar heat thing though.

nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


An Applebee's waitress who posted a receipt with a note from a pastor complaining about the automatic gratuity added to the bill on the Internet was fired on Wednesday after the pastor complained to her manager.

Chelsea Welch, the waitress, wrote in an email to Yahoo News that the pastor (who has since been identified as Alois Bell) told Welch's manager at the St. Louis-area Applebee's that the ensuing firestorm had "ruined" her reputation.

"I give God 10%," Bell wrote on the receipt, scratching out the automatic tip and scribbling in an emphatic "0" where the additional tip would be. "Why do you get 18?" (There were more than eight people in Bell's party, triggering the auto-tip.)

Welch, who snapped a photo of the bill from a fellow server and uploaded to Reddit, defended her right to post the receipt. "I thought the note was insulting, but also comical," she told Consumerist.com. "And I thought other users would find it entertaining.”

Bell, a pastor at ***Truth in the World Deliverance Ministries Church***, was not amused, and she called Welch's manager to complain.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/applebees-waitress-fired-pastor-receipt-193820748.html

hawkeye — January 31, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Good to know. Guess we can put your comments in the same pot as those of Ray, Bob, Jon, Lance, and Dave......*

*mr_basil_seal — January 31, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.*

Why thank you, Basil. Nice compliment from my perspective. You placed me on a list of folks who have commented, openly and freely...with OUR own opinion and our perspective (as one does on an OPINION site)...have provided samples of information to support our perspectives which were obviously not a necessary function of an open forum but did so otherwise.

You have placed me on a list of folks who you characterize in a dysfunctional manner because you have had the inability to meet with the discussion in a neutral zone...due to the fact that you are extremely one sided when you present your argument and when you know your side is weakening, you resort to what you believe are insults or condescending thoughts used to support your argument by inciting emotional response.

You have the inability to recognize the fact that this site has rules and regulations which we must abide by and that many of the links we could have provided are under copyright laws.

You have not recognized the fact that a sample of an ever-growing list of credible data should suffice since this is not the place for a dissertation. It is not a court room where evidence must be presented. It is merely a discussion forum. Would you expect in passing conversation away from the internet...for your friends to provide data to back up their opinions to you as well?

You sir, display the traits of a person who suffers from a superiority complex, always with the thought that you are always right.

Well Basil...I am proud to say I am part of the group you have mentioned, even if I don't agree with what they might say...but don't think you've hung another feather in your hat with some warped sense of accomplishment. What you have pointed out is the FACT that each and every one of us are not accepting of the style of discussion you display on the forum and will not back down from your supercilious demeanor.

Sir...you've got issues.

goldenoldie — February 1, 2013 at 6:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — January 31, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. -- "You guys on the CRC threads can get pretty personal."

Well, if your main point being made is that Editor Lou's initial reason for changing over to facebook to bring about a more civil discussion is a bust - no argument. When Marshal Matt departed things went south in a hurry. It looks like New Guy is finally trying to clean things up - he's been deleting posts with profanity, etc.

Things get a little shaky here also. There are days where civility isn't even an afterthought.

And I do my best to behave. I stopped short of calling someone the village idiot, which is what passes through my mind every time he weighs in. I understand that being on the C-Tran community board (whatever it's called) is a voluntary thing, but you'd think they would make an effort to see that what he posts adds to the conversation. Also, you will note that MB from Camas and I debate quite nicely with each other now - even though I do occasionally ask him to drop the "I feel" approach when he's claiming something as fact.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: The meatloaf discussion. I ran across Heinz catchup with balsamic vinegar and bought a bottle. It'll go great on those next day sandwiches.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Well, if your main point being made is that Editor Lou's initial reason for changing over to facebook to bring about a more civil discussion is a bust - no argument.*

Pretty much.

*Things get a little shaky here also. There are days where civility isn't even an afterthought.*

Well, the last few days have started with cat claws & insults. I still think we do much better over here in this regard.

As far as FB posters who are ridiculous and have no skin in the game, doesn't the most passionate vocal anti light rail loudmouth live in North Carolina? Or is that just a false accusation? If true, maybe this guy should take a back seat.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hilarious!

**Jon Stewart Explains Obama Skeet Shooting Hoopla: Why You Won't See A Photo Of President With A Gun (VIDEO)**

In order to show that he's not totally anti-gun, President Obama recently mentioned that he does skeet shooting "all the time" at Camp David. Naturally, the truthers have begun to have a field day with that. Where are the pictures to prove it, Mr. President??

In another episode almost entirely about gun control, Jon Stewart explained, as succinctly as humanly possible, why "the black man that half the country lives in fear of won't release a photo of himself holding a gun." A picture says a thousand words.

Watch the clip above, **which culminates in a Seussian reading of why Obama can't win with some people,** then do yourself a favor and check out the rest of the episode over at The Daily Show site. It's a good one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/jon-stewart-explains-obama-skeet-shooting_n_2597973.html

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting proposals!

**Yes, He Can: Twenty Ways Obama Can Use Executive Power to Push a Progressive Agenda**

http://www.thenation.com/article/172402/yes-he-can-twenty-ways-obama-can-use-executive-power-push-progressive-agenda?page=0,5

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Facebook skeptics: Here's research that reveals a dark side to this addiction, as if you did not know.

I really worry that we are creating a nation of narcissists:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/mar/17/facebook-dark-side-study-aggressive-narcissism

manthou — February 1, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More news-you-can-use (or not):

Unlocking a cell phone purchased from one carrier to use in another carrier plan could get us in legal hot water now. Apparently, it happens a lot. Beware:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.sfgate.com/technology/dotcommentary/article/Law-bans-unlocking-of-cell-phones-4229779.php

manthou — February 1, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — February 1, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

Should I be worried, I have 126 friends on FB. LOL

Of course that doesn't count ALL the ones I have here. Could be upwards of 5 or 6.

Dare to dream!!!

hawkeye — February 1, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola: I took a gander at the link you posted from couv.com.

While I have not had time to view the interview in its entirety, I am actually impressed that Madore gave the CC Deputy Administrator an opportunity to educate and inform the public about Clark County Accounting 101.

Madore saw this presentation in house and was impressed enough to share it with a public who is largely uninformed.

This guy is such a mixed bag for me, and I want to acknowledge the times he gets it right.

Good on Madore for this one. It should have been news here.

manthou — February 1, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Bothell man who killed terminally ill wife gets 2 years in prison**

[http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/fe...][1]

Mercy killing is a tricky subject. It’s hard to sit by a watch a loved one go through the pain and indignity of a deteriorating Illness. From what I’ve read about this situation; I don’t blame Mr. McNeely for his actions. Strange and disgusting as it may seem to some, I think he did the right thing for his wife. Considering the obvious legal results of his action, I would guess it makes it clearer that he killed his wife for her sake, not his. Based on only a two year sentence for second degree murder, it would seem the judge also thinks so. I don't think he deserves any time in prison, but I suppose that opens up a rather large can of worms.

As far as the insults go, before either roger or nail came on board the forum, things got really raucous. I’ve seen some acidic comments on FB, but not like some of the things that use to go on in the pre-FB forum. Even basil was shown the door a couple of times.

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/fe...

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — February 1, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.

Holy crapola, holycrapola. You still got a woody for those in the assessor's office? Man, you gotta let it go or step up and do something about it. This is gonna eat you up if you don't.

As far as someone sticking to their job for as long as possible, I think that is where a lot of people find their comfort level. I think that's a much better deal than the "Peter Principle" where you rise to your highest level of incompetence. Not everybody has the need to be President.

hawkeye — February 1, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Isn't that special!*

**Tea Party Community, Conservative Facebook Alternative, Set To Launch**

Organizers of new social networking site The Tea Party Community have taken Facebook, eliminated the supposed liberal bullying, tossed in tens of thousands of conservatives and mixed it all together with a dash of conspiracy theory to create a new online hub, set to launch officially on Saturday.

The Tea Party Community co-founder Ken Crow tells Fox News, he wants to make it the Facebook alternative for conservatives and the Tea Party movement.

So far, it has drawn upward of 50,000 members, attracted to what Crow calls a “safe haven for the conservative movement where we can share ideas and thoughts and express ourselves without fear of retribution.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/tea-party-community_n_2598171.html?ir=Technology&ref;=topbar

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

That person who now lives in North Carolina is Robert Dean. He recently shut down his business, Dean Surveying in Hazel Dell, and moved there. The people who are jumping on the "you don't even live here" bandwagon are attacking him and others associated with Lew Waters website. Dean gets special attention from some of the pro-CRC crowd because he brings up points that make them uncomfortable - WA State law requiring a vote on the high capacity transit system plan; the Joe Norquist study that says the final bill for the CRC will approach $10 billion; and references to the Tiffany Couch forensic audit of the CRC. My own research tells me he's probably more right than wrong with the first two. I didn't get too far into Couch's analysis; she tends to argue technicalities with process that get a bit more on the technical side than I care to have filling my brain.

Dean has been posting for a long time, and is always extremely civil. I've disagreed with him on most other subjects except for the CRC, and have never found a reason to see his responses as anything other than an honest presentation of differing opinions. (And I'll also say the same for Lew Waters.) To call him a loudmouth is very wrong - if anything, I'd say this more appropriately applies to a few of those attacking him.

There are also several others who live elsewhere who post on the facebook side frequently - especially with the legal marijuana issue. No one has ever singled them out to say their opinions are unwanted due to not living here. That honor seems to be reserved for Dean.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *anything other than an honest presentation of differing opinions. (And I'll also say the same for Lew Waters.*)

Obviously we share differing opinion on what a loudmouth is.

*especially with the legal marijuana issue. No one has ever singled them out to say their opinions are unwanted due to not living here.*

A bit of a false equivalency. A plant compared to a *boondoggle*. :)

I think if some of you guys would step outside of your staunch opinions and take a look at some of the conversation that goes on...

One of my takeaway's, and tell me if I'm wrong.

You don't have to be conservative to be against Light Rail, but all conservatives are against Light rail. (Yes I know, many variables, but overall.)

What I find most troubling are those who promote DM's questionable methods/ethics to this point. Encouraging this County employee to behave in this fashion because it suits their agenda.

All for activist government if it suits a conservative cause.

What's next, a local war against abortion providers?

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEJy-x...

And roger if I may...YAWN...

I'm still blown away with the energy so many have with this thing...to each their own but still...YAWN...displaced anxiety is one thing but...YAWN...this thing makes a soccer game...YAWN... exciting...YAWN...()

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There may be one or another on FB that sometimes fits the description of loudmouth, and one here in the basement, but R. Dean is not one of them.

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Predictable...if nothing else k_nd...you're predictable. Conservative to a Tea.

:)

:

.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why, whatever do you mean?

No doubt, some deep-laid psychological cellar full of demons, waiting to be exorcised by Collectivist group think.

:):):):)

:):)

:)

:
.

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger I read your posts on the FB side every day.And I have responded to you a few times.You make some very good points.I also agree with you about R Dean.He never slams anyone that I have seen.As far as Madore and Lew go I like them both.I met Madore a few years ago and I think he has some good ideas.He does not want to stop the CRC he is just against the waste of money and LTE.I have also met Lew at the Legion post Lew is a very dedicated man with very strong ideas and convictions.But I do think he is a good man.

timerick — February 1, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, if I might put in my two loud mouth cents:

I have long objected to the way the words Liberal and Conservative are used. I have addressed this issue a number of times, if anyone even remembers or read my comments. If there is no common basis of definition, then one might posit that discussion is at cross purposes.

It’s fair to say, I think, that Conservatives are sometimes defined as those who resist change, while Liberals are those who want change. Very limited outlooks, if you ask me, but for the sake of argument, suppose that is the way some look at things.

So what does that make Madore. And what does that make his detractors?

Madore wants change, and it seems to me he’s putting his own neck on the line, while his detractors seem favor the status quo.

So I ask you, in this scenario, just who is the Liberal, and just who is the Conservative.

Exactly.

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai I agree with you.You can glean good things from both sides only if you go with both eyes open.And I don't agree with taking sides.We can't all agree with the same thing all the time.It does no one any good to slander and slam anothers point of view just because you may not agree with it.

timerick — February 1, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


k_nd- For being such a stickler for political speak terminology, you're mistaking liberal as being progressive.

Conservatives want to overturn Roe v Wade, sooo, I suppose they are....

Your reasoning lacks.

But anyway..

Sorry to interrupt..

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Perhaps I should have used *clamorous* instead of loudmouth.

Given the vitriol many use in here and certainly on Face Book, I'll try and be somewhat politically correct from now on.

I know how sensitive a few are.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Energy Secretary Steven Chu Resigns, Chastises Climate Deniers And Clean-Energy Critics**

In a wide-ranging and sometimes defiant letter to staff announcing his resignation on Friday, Energy Secretary Steven Chu, while highlighting his agency's achievements over the last four years, blasted critics of the administration's investment in the renewable energy market, suggesting that opponents were living in the "Stone Age."

"In the last two years, the private sector, including Warren Buffett, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Google, have announced major investments in clean energy," Chu wrote. "Originally skeptical lenders and investors now see that renewable energy will [be] profitable. These investors are voting where it counts the most -- with their wallet."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/steven-chu-resigns_n_2601964.html

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Perhaps one can explain the difference between Liberal and Progressive.

Better yet, perhaps one can first define Liberal, and then define Progressive, and then draw the distinctions.

(This should be interesting).

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Your argument style has become very much like that of Lord Basil. It gets quite old to read an analysis of select lines without addressing the overall message. There used to be some good discussions here - widely differing opinions voiced and countered on various topics. But I haven't seen much of the conservative crowd here lately - where are frobert, elisi, et.al.? Perhaps they got tired of everything they said being ridiculed? Hard to say. I just know that much of the discussion here is quite one-sided anymore (except when Goldie gets a hair and cuts loose). Anymore, this place has become predictably boring - a lot of bombastic cut and pastes, interspersed with a few REAL conversations.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh - and if you're going to accuse someone of making a false equivalency, it would behoove you to learn what one is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_eq...

I was noting the number of people from elsewhere who commented on marijuana reform - and not one was challenged over their "right" to post here. That was (quite clearly) given as an example to support my contention that the only "outsider" who's "right to post" is Robert Dean.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh - My manners. Kn-dalai and Timerick - thanks.

Groan - I must at this time once again reaffirm that I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. Or a David Madore supporter. I'm just finding that the local variety of Dems have mostly swung so far to the Left that, and are so interested in taking my money to support anything and everything they find "necessary", that I have to play the strange bedfellows game. What happened to the rational Dems - Pridemore, for example?

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You're the self proclaimed expert k_nd, Just trying to help and bring you in the here and now.

Just because I've corrected a mistake, don't expect me to delve into a subject as of now I find boring and you would disagree to disagree. Do your own research. It'll stick with you longer.

Btw @ 4:34 puts "....your comments in the same pot as those of Ray, Bob, Jon, Lance, and Dave......(for you roger)

mr_basil_seal — January 31, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.

*Now, if I might put in my two loud mouth cents:*

You did and it was disappointing. :(

We may disagree on much, but there was a time you were able to articulate a position a bit better than this. :(

To wrap it up, I'll quote a famous debater.

Please proceed Governor. :)

---

roger-*Perhaps they got tired of everything they said being ridiculed? Hard to say.*

My God...you...the victim card. This CRC nonsense is eating you up.

Nobody dishes the dirt and ridicule as the posters you mentioned.

A little one sided rhetoric for lack of substance?

roger, you used to be more than this. This anti CRC thing might be taking it's .. toll.

*Anymore, this place has become predictably boring - a lot of bombastic cut and pastes, interspersed with a few REAL conversations.*

Not quite as exciting as Face Book eh!?! :)))

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I would like to add this question to your comment above:

What happened to the rational Republicans? I'm thinking of Mark Hatfield, specifically. Gordon Smith, too. Those types of politicians. Dead and defeated, specifically, I guess.

This culture of nasty polarity is spilling over into all things, not just politics. I saw it at work as I wound down for a very early retirement. I have many good years left in me, but not so many to put up with the fighting and incivility that made serving the public too much.

If we can learn to control the emotion of it all (not an easy task) before we act, talk, write and really, really listen for commonality, we might be able to help each other and learn, rather than scrap for our little piece of the pie to hoard for ourselves.

There is a book I want to read called "Quiet." Don't know the author. She writes about the value of being a quiet, introvert observer and how our society has come to only value those who are loud, attention-seeking, and pushy.

manthou — February 1, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Oh - and if you're going to accuse someone of making a false equivalency, it would behoove you to learn what one is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_eq...*

Ouch!

If you're not getting where I'm coming from that's cool. But if all else fails...

When your argument has no meaning, what can it be equivalent to?

Thanks for *behooving* me!

Sigh...

We need new blood in here.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.

I'm not a friend of DMs and I'm sure most of you know that. I think the thing I dislike about him most (in the beginning) was his need to bring religion into his campaign. He has since backed away from that. Now the thing I dislike about him is his "bull in the china shop" attitude in taking office. I'm all for "shaking things up" but it seems to me he's going about it totally wrong. He made a lot of promises when he was running that have yet to appear ("as of January 3rd the floodgates will open and everybody that wants a job will have one") and the elimination of park fees which according to his explanation, doesn't make sense. He said he would "save" $400k but to do that he would have to eliminate the jobs of the people that collected the money. So actually that would balance out the money not actually "saving" anything and put several people out of work.

But then, that's just me. Resident loudmouth.

hawkeye — February 1, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

“The local variety of Dems has swung” … to the Left. Come now roger. Your Dems took a big Socialist swing long ago.

You may recognize, that nothing I have ever stated would suggest that you are a Republican, as you are clearly a blue collar Democrat. Actually, I believe you once stated this.

It’s rather interesting that you recently used the word collectivist. A word which Ayn Rand herself used to describe that which is the opposite of liberty.

A word which I have frequently used to describe same.

Socialist, Communist, Communitarian, Marxist, Statist; to some extent.. Maybe a host of others. Who cares. Collectivist describes the idea well enough.

Nail,

Perhaps you can actually explain what a Progressive is. As I asked before. Something tells me, you’ll wiggle out, once again, and make some scurrilous comment.

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


k_nd, please see 6:35. You would disagree if I said water is wet.

*Socialist, Communist, Communitarian, Marxist, Statist; to some extent..*

I think your rhetoric is old and creepy.

As I've said before, you have no idea how bizarre your Alinski, Communist, Collectivist crap is. Your train of thought is isolated to a narrow ideology few relate to.

I think that is the draw for many "libertarians". A sense of being elite and chosen somehow...anyway...

Hmmmph! Scurrilous indeed! :)))))

Wow!

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, scurrilous is the word. And one will note that once again, you evade any straight forward discussion.

And some of you people put some stock in this character? One who plays one game after another to avoid any substance whatsoever?

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops.

:):):):)

:):)

:)

Goodnight.

Goodnight and goodbye.

:):):):)

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And as another resident loudmouth, how would these same folks who are praising DM for charging ahead, regardless of what many consider to be a staged show without regard for ethics or respect for due process, how would they feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

It's indicative of what conservative politicians are doing across the country.

Win at any cost. Doesn't matter what laws, ethics, majority of people...doesn't matter.

These types of politics are what's wrong with today's culture.

That and the voters who will sell their souls to get their way.

And usually not so much based on principle, but rather to pinch a penny not giving a damn for the future.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/

As for the Repubs - very true. The Baggers ran the last couple off.

roger — February 1, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goodnight and goodbye.

:):):):)

kn_dalai — February 1, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

But, but, but.... I thought we were going to discuss DM!

hawkeye — February 1, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And some of you people put some stock in this character?*

That I know you can't source!

*One who plays one game after another to avoid any substance whatsoever?*

With so many sources to review progressivism, it's hard to take your requests seriously and not think it's a prop for something else.

Which we both know it is, and again quite frankly your nitpikization of words I find boring.

You rarely argue/discuss any policy, events, anything of current substance. Always on the sideline line taking shots critiquing posts you can't reckon with your outdated latest Ronpaulist libertarian ideology.

You've gotten into God knows how many avatarial confrontations with other posters besides me. This reactionary emotional trigger that's pulled when someone dare say something you don't like is forum legendary.

But it's you. And as a progressive liberal, I and others will hope and help to guide you to a better tomorrow.

:))

:)

:
.

nailingit — February 1, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola- It's not unusual for companies to provide monies for clothing/housing, pay for additional schooling etc. as part of a employment package. Especially in a high profile PR job like these.

Given it's on the tax payers dime makes it a little different but still, these guys attend all kinds of events and are on the clock 24/7.

This dry cleaning gate ain't cuttin' it.

This paper's stirring the pot seeking to widen the chasm between people & government.

Last week it was the same us against them drivel.

This paper loves to drive a wedge, even when stuck in a sand trap.

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When I was in the military I wore special uniforms that couldn't be worn anywhere except on the job, and I was also on the clock - for much more of that 24/7 than these guys are. I did receive a clothing replacement allowance - it may have covered half my cost in a good year - but I sure as hell never received an allowance to cover the laundry and dry cleaning costs for those uniforms - a rough guess would be $500/year. I was also expected to be in telephone contact at all times - emergencies, 2-hour recall alerts, etc. Never received an allowance for that either. So what makes our legislative types so special?

However, to respond to Editor Lou's observation - sorry, but this is nickel and dime crap - try focusing on the big ticket items. All this does is allow the various governments to focus on cutting small and continuing to waste big.

Oh - And I most definitely want both Ann and Jim to look and smell nice. Hope they shower daily!

roger — February 2, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think the difference here is that for you, Roger, the rules didn't allow it but for our legislators, it's part of their package. If it's allowed, why are we complaining about it? If you don't like the rules, change them. I'm sure they get more bennies that we don't know about and I'm sure Lou with bitch about them at some future time. If times were different, and the economy was strong, we wouldn't care. It just so happens now, things are a little tough.

hawkeye — February 2, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For those FB and Forum friends who are slapping Lou B and the C on the back to congratulate him for "digging up the dirt" about the legislators' tax payer dry cleaning, please note this:

Mike Baker of the Associated Press broke this story and deserves your thanks. It was re-published here and in the Seattle Times:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020238296_apwalegislativeexpenses.html

manthou — February 2, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger at 7:06 am: Right on. You mention that focusing on this nickel and dime stuff distracts from the big spending problems.

It's silly harassment.

Sometimes I think the press loves to throw these scraps out there and sit back and make fun of the mass reaction, just for sport.

In fact, I know so.

Carry on.

manthou — February 2, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - Agreed. The bennies our State legislators get are a pittance compared to those received on the national level. I think the issue is more one of why is it allowed in the first place? And if the answer for our Washington State legislators is that we only pay them a part time salary to do the job (somewhere around $42K per year) then I'm OK with that.

Editor Lou has it in for public employees; the hard copy today also has his poll saying their pensions need to go away because the private sector ones have.

The real issue here, as far as I'm concerned, is that our working class got way too uppity in the 20th Century - We actually grew up believing we had the right to a comfortable lifestyle with all the amenities and toys. Corporate America has managed to knock down the private sector workers, and now the public sector ones need to be cut to their level - then that process can continue further.

roger — February 2, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Groan - I must at this time once again reaffirm that I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. Or a David Madore supporter.*

roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:26 p.m.

roger- I thought you might find this read interesting, as well as explaining a bit why people assume you are Republican.

You seem to have embraced this 'fiscal conservatism' that has sprung up since the 2008 election.

Where were these same people during 2000-2008? In part it's much the reason many see this movement as not only hurting our economy in the long run, (in large part due to lack of investment), but see it to be hyper partisan and short-sighted as well.

Anyway...

*Conservatives-True believers*

ONE of the features of the American political landscape is that fiscal conservatives are, for the most part, socially conservative too. According to a recent Gallup poll, 31% of Americans identify themselves as both, making economic and social conservatives the biggest ideological bloc in the country. At the Republican state convention in Texas last week, the connection was taken as given. Most speakers touched on both themes, and the few who were suspected of moderation on either issue were booed. The state party's platform is as ardently opposed to gay marriage as it is enthralled by free enterprise.

There's something odd about this grouping, though. The logical connection between fiscal issues and social concerns isn't obvious. It's not as if gay marriage causes inflation. And while de-funding Planned Parenthood may result in smaller budgets in the short term, there's a strong case that limiting access to contraception and other family planning services will lead to greater government spending in the future. So why are fiscal conservatives socially conservative? Reasoning that a meeting of Texas Republicans would be a pretty good place to find true believers, I decided to ask them.

As often happens in this kind of exercise, the results were unscientific but thought-provoking, as several strains of thought emerged.

Read more @ http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/06/conservatives-0

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — February 2, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.

"Carry on."

Yes Ma'am.

roger — February 2, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

When we were praising Pres Clinton for balancing the budget, it was easy to see this was accomplished largely by moving the "due date" on a lot of spending past his term of office - I wasn't enamored with this approach.

When VP Cheney announced "deficits don't matter; keep spending" back in 2001, my response was interspersed with several 4-letter words.

My reaction in 2003, when the Iraq invasion started, was WTF???

I'd already dealt and worked with DOD contractors for several years - I smelled and commented on that rat as soon as the no-bid contracting process was announced - Cheney and Halliburton was only a part of that discussion.

And I'm still waiting to see some of the money from Iraqi oil production come back our way - that was going to pay for their "liberation" and reconstruction - not us.

The current controls on the interest rates, keeping them artificially way too low, has me scared to death. When/if we remove this "temporary" control, the prime rate will climb by several percentage points. This is going to affect spending, our ability to pay current debts, and a whole lot more. Any economic growth we think we're attaining now will suffer, and employment will also take a hit. This is the main reason I occasionally say we aren't at the bottom yet - we've got round 2 of this recession coming. The smart people better be coming up with a plan to slowly raise the prime rate and implement it soon.

No - I was embracing fiscal conservatism long before anyone ever thought of the Tea Party movement. My discussion venues were restricted through 2004. And I didn't know this website existed until much later, so you haven't really been exposed to my long-term opinion on gov't spending.

roger — February 2, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yikes. Didn't mean to sound so directive, roger. Mea culpa :)

I just read about Clark County's participation in this great national program: The Juvenile Detention Alternatives Initiative, thanks to the Columbian.

There are many things about Clark County collaborative government that should make us proud and it always seems to me that we focus too much on what doesn't work to the detriment of the good. The list of collaborators is impressive and I am glad to see Tony Golik on board.

The other excellent program is the partnership that Vancouver PD and Clark County Sheriff have with CIT (Crisis Intervention Training) of officers on a regular basis. This has dramatically decreased the incidence of officer related shootings, in spite of the two we have in our minds right now.

Clark County and Vancouver PD have nowhere near Portland's numbers. As a matter of fact, Portland PD signed on to CIT training, modeling Vancouver PD's, after the James Chasse killing in the Pearl District in 2006.

Just pointing these things out.

manthou — February 2, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


@roger — February 1, 2013 at 6:14 p.m

Roger, you hit right on with your comment yesterday.

Second posting of this since whom ever didn't like it the first time and removed...wow two words with ... between them.
Oh I suppose the words "hammer and nail" are just two words that are not PC to use now.

*shrug* oh well too many touchy feel-ly people

ELISI — February 2, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- I've never advocated for censoring. Your implication is cheap and unfounded.

---

*so you haven't really been exposed to my long-term opinion on gov't spending.*

roger — February 2, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.

Understood. I'm speaking to the movement as a whole. Where was this political clout 10 yrs ago?

It's the Ayn Rand thinking that will starve America from investing in the future of tomorrow.

*our working class got way too uppity in the 20th Century - We actually grew up believing we had the right to a comfortable lifestyle with all the amenities and toys.*

How you lay the blame on those of us who have worked hard all of our lives and enjoy a few amenities........

What makes you not label yourself as a Libertarian or Republican? Nothing wrong with either btw, just wondering.

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Never IMPLIED, never NAMED names did I?

Got to love those that jump immediately on something someone said and Oooo so defensive....shows guilt!

*What makes you not label yourself as a Libertarian or Republican? Nothing wrong with either btw, just wondering.*

LOL nothing wrong? Just being barraged daily with insults is all. But, I guess that's ok huh?

All of you have a great sun shiny day!

ELISI — February 2, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Never IMPLIED, never NAMED names did I?*

*Second posting of this since whom ever didn't like it the first time and removed...wow two words with ... between them. Oh I suppose the words "hammer and nail" are just two words that are not PC to use now.*

Kinda like last week, imply a falsehood and see if it grows. At some point maturity should come into play, as well as having a moral compass that doesn't read south.

*Oh my LOLOLOLOLING very loudly...*

*If one takes this statement, run it trough Google...what a load of Bull...**it that comes up...*

*"Conservatives are at war with America. Destroying government and reducing us to a theocratic society grounded and governed in & by Christian faith based leaders is a Conservative's utopia."*

..

*LOL nothing wrong? Just being barraged daily with insults is all. But, I guess that's ok huh?*

Thanks for the input, I was addressing roger.

*Got to love those that jump immediately on something someone said and Oooo so defensive....shows guilt!*

sigh...again...maturity.

And I thought we had a deal...

Now be sure and tell me to calm down....:))

I never approach you first ELISI. It's always to deflect BS like this morning.

And besides, there are plenty of others here who will give you unfettered attention.

As I've suggested before, move on or put me on ignore. It's cool.

But to go out of your way like you do...........one would think you invite any perceived "ridicule" with open arms.

A compliment of sorts...

I do appreciate your posts at some level. You embody today's intellectual conservative thought and penchant for fairness to a Tea.

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh the attempt to take the spot light off oneself..headgames..kids play it well.

Talk about self importance..

ELISI — February 2, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


YO--- holycrapola, just ran across something you might be interested. You could work with DM.

http://jobview.local-jobs.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=119022085&aid;=112538333&WT.mc;_n=JSAHG10

hawkeye — February 2, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Hillary Clinton Interview: Secretary Of State Says Benghazi Critics Have Refused To 'Accept The Facts'**

WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is leaving office with a slap at critics of the Obama administration's handling of the September attack on a U.S. diplomatic mission in Libya. She told The Associated Press that critics of the administration's handling of the attack don't live in an "evidence-based world," and their refusal to "accept the facts" is unfortunate and regrettable for the political system.

In her last one-on-one interview before she steps down on Friday, Clinton told the AP that the attack in Benghazi was the low point of her time as America's top diplomat. But she suggested that the furor over the assault would not affect whether she runs for president in 2016.

...

"I was so unhappy with the way that some people refused to accept the facts, refused to accept the findings of an independent Accountability Review Board, politicized everything about this terrible attack," she said. "My job is to admit that we have to make improvements and we're going to."

Hours after Clinton made those remarks, a suicide bomber linked to a domestic terror group exploded a device just outside the U.S. Embassy in Ankara, Turkey, killing himself and a guard.

Clinton faced a barrage of hostile questions about Benghazi from Republican lawmakers when she testified before Congress recently in appearances that were delayed from December because of illness. Afterward, some lawmakers continued to accuse her and the administration of withholding evidence. Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., told a television interviewer that he thought Clinton was getting "away with murder."

In the interview, Clinton had little patience for such allegations.

"There are some people in politics and in the press who can't be confused by the facts," she said. "They just will not live in an evidence-based world. And that's regrettable. It's regrettable for our political system and for the people who serve our government in very dangerous, difficult circumstances."

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/hillary-clinton-interview_n_2597514.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Insightful and stated as only Maher can. Classic! It's been the subject of many a basement discussion. WARNING! [Possibly too harsh for those who critique basement demeanor ;]

**Bill Maher Explains Why Sarah Palin Leaving Fox News Is Actually Bad News For The Left (VIDEO)**

Democrats might be happy that Sarah Palin will no longer be paid $1 million a year by Fox News, but based on what happened when Glenn Beck left the conservative network, Bill Maher isn't thrilled to see her go.

After Beck left Fox, he took his "patented brand of apocalyptic race baiting" to the Internet and started charging his audience around $10 a month. Then, in 2012, he made $80 million.

If Palin takes a cue from Beck or Rush Limbaugh, she too could make a lot more money off her fans than she did at Fox. But Maher feels that's exactly what makes these pundits "con men":

"They don't care about winning elections; they care about separating rubes from their money. They discovered that there's a fortune to be made by keeping a small portion of America under the illusion that they are always under attack, from Mexicans or ACORN or Planned Parenthood or gays or takers, global warming hoaxers; it doesn't matter. They don't want a majority; they want a mailing list, a list of the kind of gullible 'Honey Boo Boos' out there who think there's a 'War on Christmas' and the Socialist policies of our Kenyan President are so disastrous that the end of the world is coming."

**See more** @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/bill-maher-sarah-palin-fox-news-glenn-beck-video_n_2606099.html

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well said Craig! I'm glad to see many spoke out against this and only a few bought into it. We're divided enough about government without this.

Craig Pridemore

A month out of office and you guys still like to take quotes out of context. :-) I also pointed out that they are authorized expenditures and that legislators don't make a lot of money. Maybe they shouldn't be authorized expenses but smearing public officials to sell newspapers is a lot slimier a practice than a few dollars for dry cleaning. Why not take a stab at this Lou. You guys have opposed any revenue increases to deal with the state budget crisis. Offhand, I don't recall any state services that you would like to cut that get anywhere near to a $2 billion figure. Rather than smirk about a few hundred dollars in dry cleaning, why not propose $2 billion in cuts that you would support? It's a lot harder to do than sarcasm. Trust me, I've tried both. :-)

Reply · 27 · · about an hour ago

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/fe...

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Our Pres has officially taken a stand on gun control. He has it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/obama-skeet-shooting_n_2606095.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D265276

And that ain't no staged photo, folks. Note the cheek pressed firmly against the stock, and the relaxed grip on the barrel - excellent control of that shotgun being demonstrated.

roger — February 2, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*And that ain't no staged photo, folks.*

roger — February 2, 2013 at 5 p.m.

I agree. But some folks at Breibart might disagree. The conspiracies are flying!

Now, to those familiar with Obama's record of opposing guns at every turn and lying about almost everything, that struck us as odd.

Today, however, the White House released a photo that purports to show Obama (love that tucked-in shirt) shooting skeet last August. Except… he's shooting straight ahead, which means that there's either a barn door somewhere in need of some patching, or Obama is such an awesome skeet shooter, he hits them as they come out of the firing device.

I keed, I keed. There are legitimate reasons that would explain the angle of his gun, but....

Because the photo is odd, some are asking perfectly legitimate questions.

But not the media.

What did the media do?

Because the media no longer questions or is skeptical of Power, and instead sees its role as protector of The State, the media mocked those who were skeptical:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/02/02/Media-Immediately-Follows-White-House-Orders-%20to-Mock-Skeet-Gate-Skeptics

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MWAHAHAHA

I knew this was going to happen eventually.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/fe...

hawkeye — February 2, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: There is a commenter on the FB side that acknowledges that "Muslims move here for a better life."

Ha. Ha.

Most of the Muslims I know are US citizens, born and bred.

Good for this principal in Maryland.

manthou — February 2, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*This is interesting. If Lou keeps digging he'll be commenting from Beijing!*

Lou Brancaccio · Top Commenter · University of Florida

Thanks again for the conversation. I understand when you take on the political power structure -- both Democrats and Republicans -- they and their backers will come down on you. The working stiffs of this world don't get a lot of love and support. Such is life in the news business. :-)
Reply · · about an hour ago

nailingit — February 2, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Second posting of this since whom ever
> didn't like it the first time and
> removed...wow two words with ...
> between them. Oh I suppose the words
> "hammer and nail" are just two words
> that are not PC to use now.
>
> shrug oh well too many touchy feel-ly
> people
>
> ELISI — February 2, 2013 at 9:58 a.m

i've been banned from fb by the new uberman because i...well, i actually don't *know* why. something about "we can't follow links to who you are" problems. this makes what...third, fourth time...? i told matt last time i'd comply with his requirements *providing there weren't any more of them*. i would get banned, inquire, be told to call or send a copy of mail addressed to me or something else they wanted, and i'd do it. i'd be *un*banned for a short time then re-banned for the same freaking reason. finally, i told matt i would provide his currently-demanded information, *provided it was the last time they demanded additional information from me*. i was golden....until a new guy took his job. now, history repeats itself and i'm doing this banned, give-more-info, unbanned, re-banned for yet more info dance.

the paper has tried to find me by scanning voter registration records, and probably property records as well. THIS IS WHY I KEEP INFORMATION PRIVATE, people. i may be certifiably paranoid, but i am a **very** private person. my reasons are my own. i should not have to risk my personal safety and that of my family simply to post opinions on a news web site.

one of the people who uses my computer may actually have been banned just because they are a bystander but since Big Brother doesn't actually *tell* someone they've lost posting all i can say is their posts on fb don't show up, and they don't increase the counter. oh, and his post was anti-Jim Moeller, fwiw.

DeeLittle — February 3, 2013 at 3:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I almost joined Facebook for the honor of replying in support of Craig Pridemore's brutally honest post on the dry cleaning non-issue (again: Mike Baker's byline borrowed by the Columbian).

This is one time I can agree with Josephine Wentzel, although she does not have the writing chops to express herself as eloquently as Craig.

So you all do not have to dig for it, here it is:

from Craig Pridemore:

Alright, Lou: I didn't claim dry cleaning expenses because I knew I would have had to incur those expenses at any professional job I had. I didn't claim any telephone costs because I knew The Columbian would villify me if I did. In my 14 years as an elected official, I incurred many personal expenses DIRECTLY in the performance of my duties that I never sough reimbursement for. It just wasn't worth it to me to have my personal integrity mocked for a few hundred dollars.

Back when I was county commissioner, I remember you guys did some great, brilliant, expose on the expenses charged by Betty Sue Morris and Judie Stanton. (You never wrote anything about me not charging any personal expenses in six years save for a trade mission trip to Germany in 2003, one that, to be honest, was mostly about building a regional consensus on the CRC). In it, you mocked Betty Sue (my arch-nemesis at the time) for charging a couple of dollars for a latte. In it, you never mentioned that she could have chosen to take a per diem charge that was significantly greater. Rather than take an authorized $12 for breakfast, she took a $3 latte. You (and the public) dismissed her frugality as avarice.

I don't mind arrogance and I don't mind ignorance. The appearance of both are inevitable in any position exposed to public scrutiny and God knows I've been in that position. You have a disturbing propensity to combine the two and an apparent eagerness to tell only that part of the story that defends your desired conclusion. That's what "riles" me, Lou, and that's why I've despised The Columbian under your "leadership". You mask your narrow-minded opinions with sarcasm and insults. Granted, you do it to everyone, not just liberals and not just conservatives, but the equanimity of your disdain for others isn't hidden by your repulsive and derisive instinct to refer to them as "buddy" and "friend". In my opinion, you're a little man with a lot of power and you use the latter in a transparent effort to disguise the former.

My God, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to be a private citizen again. Now I can tell you what I really think.
________________________

Right on, Craig. Right on.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I almost joined Facebook for the honor of replying in support of Craig Pridemore's brutally honest post on the dry cleaning non-issue (again: Mike Baker's byline borrowed by the Columbian).

This is one time I can agree with Josephine Wentzel, although she does not have the writing chops to express herself as eloquently as Craig.

So you all do not have to dig for it, here it is:

from Craig Pridemore:

Alright, Lou: I didn't claim dry cleaning expenses because I knew I would have had to incur those expenses at any professional job I had. I didn't claim any telephone costs because I knew The Columbian would villify me if I did. In my 14 years as an elected official, I incurred many personal expenses DIRECTLY in the performance of my duties that I never sough reimbursement for. It just wasn't worth it to me to have my personal integrity mocked for a few hundred dollars.

Back when I was county commissioner, I remember you guys did some great, brilliant, expose on the expenses charged by Betty Sue Morris and Judie Stanton. (You never wrote anything about me not charging any personal expenses in six years save for a trade mission trip to Germany in 2003, one that, to be honest, was mostly about building a regional consensus on the CRC). In it, you mocked Betty Sue (my arch-nemesis at the time) for charging a couple of dollars for a latte. In it, you never mentioned that she could have chosen to take a per diem charge that was significantly greater. Rather than take an authorized $12 for breakfast, she took a $3 latte. You (and the public) dismissed her frugality as avarice.

I don't mind arrogance and I don't mind ignorance. The appearance of both are inevitable in any position exposed to public scrutiny and God knows I've been in that position. You have a disturbing propensity to combine the two and an apparent eagerness to tell only that part of the story that defends your desired conclusion. That's what "riles" me, Lou, and that's why I've despised The Columbian under your "leadership". You mask your narrow-minded opinions with sarcasm and insults. Granted, you do it to everyone, not just liberals and not just conservatives, but the equanimity of your disdain for others isn't hidden by your repulsive and derisive instinct to refer to them as "buddy" and "friend". In my opinion, you're a little man with a lot of power and you use the latter in a transparent effort to disguise the former.

My God, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to be a private citizen again. Now I can tell you what I really think.
___________________________________

Well-said, Craig. Right on.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Egads, I loved Craig Pridemore's calling out of Lou B so much, that the internet Gods posted it twice. A captcha problem, really.

Well, it is that good, so enjoy it twice.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Excellant Meet The Press this morning with Panetta and Dempsey.

I hope congress and the pres listen to them.

ELISI — February 3, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Thanks for sharing, gave me a chuckle!

ELISI — February 3, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — February 3, 2013 at 5:57 a.m

Good for Craig. I love it.

hawkeye — February 3, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It appears that the press has become emboldened since the passage of many state Anti-Slapp laws. While meant to protect the "little guy" (AKA Brenda Hill) against retaliation from huge and powerful entities who file lawsuits meant to muzzle the free speech of the little guy, I think the Press has become the big guy in a twisted distortion.

Not many individual citizens have the resources to go after journalists and their employers when they harass and print lies. Newspapers know this and push the limits more and more.

A reminder to all that Washington state is the last state to have the citizen protections of the Washington News Council. This summer it published a scathing report about KIRO TV in King County: there was a hearing and KIRO did not bother to show up to defend themselves because they knew what they did was indefensible.

Washington News Council is losing funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation this year and needs all the support it can get. It is probably my favorite charity, hands down.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


> If it's allowed, why are we complaining about it? -- hawkeye — February 2, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

Apparently, Madore got some kind of business tax breaks for moving his business here. What's the complaint? (Just what were those tax breaks anyway?)

kn_dalai — February 3, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Free Speech Found Guilty by Europe**

> Hedegaard's legal problems began in December 2009, when he said in a taped interview that there was a high incidence of child rape and domestic violence in areas dominated by Muslim culture. Although Hedegaard insisted that he did not intend to accuse all Muslims or even the majority of Muslims of such crimes, Denmark's thought police were incensed at such effrontery

[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3026/lars-hedegaard-acquitted][1]

Oikophobia:

> Scruton uses the term as the antithesis of xenophobia.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikophobia][2]

[1]: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3026/lars-hedegaard-acquitted
[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikophobia

kn_dalai — February 3, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — February 3, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.

I don't know, I have no idea how to find out. It wouldn't surprise me though.

hawkeye — February 3, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I went through all the comments showing over on FB side for Lou's latest. I see two by Pridemore but cannot find the one you quoted. Did Lou take it off?

luvithere — February 3, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was wondering the same thing.

hawkeye — February 3, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Getting prepped for a Bowl Bash at the house today.

For those of us who revel in hit jobs, lay aside your pitchforks and watch the game!

Most NFL injuries have a shorter shelf life than those on the C. ;)

I'm taking the Ravens at a buck fifty on the money line.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/superbowl

Enjoy & Happy Superbowl!

nailingit — February 3, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — February 3, 2013 at 1:42 p.m

Wow, I'm really getting tired of Shannon Sharpe. He was a good player but as an announcer, not so much. He reminds me of Mushmouth from the old Cosby show.

Love the power outage, though.

hawkeye — February 3, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I feel a deep ache in my heart for the students and their families as well as the staff - past and present at Crestline Elementary School as they deal with the horrific loss of what many children call their second home.

Thank heavens it didn't happen during a school day. I hope if there's any way the community can help with anything, that the Evergreen School District...in conjunction with the Columbian and the local television stations...will let the people know.

So sad...so many memories, old and new.

wow

goldenoldie — February 3, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay...I see where there are donation locations listed in the article, but I've also discovered there are two drop-off locations as well for miscellaneous school supplies:

Cascade Park Burgerville - 11704 SE Mill Plain Blvd., Vancouver, WA 98684

Fisher’s Landing Burgerville - 16416 SE McGillivray Blvd., Vancouver, WA 98683

goldenoldie — February 3, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: I was watching KATU's coverage of the tragic Crestline fire just now. A teacher who lives near there says she saw a bunch of teens lighting off trajectory fireworks last night at about 8 to 9 pm.

The reporter asked her: "Why didn't you call the police."

Her answer: This happens a lot and I have called the police before and they don't show up.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere and hawkeye: I would not be surprised if Lou censored Pridemore's free speech just because he can.

I actually wrote Pridemore this afternoon, thanking him for sharing his honest thoughts. I think Mr. B needs to get that feedback. Coming from someone as credible and ethical as Pridemore surely stung. Or should have.

manthou — February 3, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,thanks. I guess Lou censored as he did not like what he read. Shame shame shame. And this is the editor of a newspaper. No wonder it's going down the drain. How did you reach Pridemore?

luvithere — February 3, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- *He reminds me of Mushmouth from the old Cosby show.*

Now *that's* funny! I hear you. Annoying as heck. He was a damn good player, and as a Charger fan I saw him more than I wanted to.

Maybe it's just my age, but it seems to me the best years in professional sports are behind us. 70's & 80's football, baseball & basketball were the greatest. The players, the games..not as good as they used to be.

Great game. The outage was a trip. It sure put the power of momentum (or lack of it) on display. A fun game till the end.

nailingit — February 3, 2013 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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