Open forum, July 8-14



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The title says JUNE 8-14. Are the months going backwards?

hawkeye — July 8, 2013 at 6:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's do the time warp again....

roger — July 8, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Editor-in-Chief has been on vacation for a couple of weeks.

When the boss is away.....

manthou — July 8, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: This is an article you will appreciate.

Malik Obama, the President's older half-brother, ran for political office in Kenya recently, and lost. Most Western journalists ignored the story.

[link text][1]


manthou — July 8, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- Thanks for the interesting article. The irony! :)


[Imagine the absurd symmetry of it: In the States, Barack Obama is mistrusted by a few last jungle-soldier-like holdouts as a virtual Kenyan. Malik’s identity as an actual Kenyan has been tainted by too many years in the States. That’s right: Malik’s got a Birther problem. This family just can’t catch a break.]

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

///America Is Not Doomed///

The latest jobs numbers aren't the only blow to theory that the US is doomed. Daniel Gross on why America's prospects are brightening while other countries struggle.

The U.S. may not have regained its swagger, but economic self-confidence is returning. And there’s a good reason for it. With four years of growth under our belt, Americans in the aggregate are doing better financially than they were in 2008 and 2009. Everyone is doing a much better job keeping up with financial obligations. Credit card delinquencies are down to levels not seen since the 1990s, and personal bankruptcy filings are off 14 percent in the past year alone. Today, payments are behind on about seven percent of all U.S. mortgages, down from 10 percent in early 2010. Even as they reduce their debt pile by hundreds of billions of dollars each quarter, American consumers are hitting the malls – retail sales set a new record every month, and car sales, the biggest retail sector, are shifting into a higher gear.

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-What up holy-

holycrapola — July 8, 2013 at 11:33 a.m.

"What percentage of the population can get a mortgage today? Answer? Only the cream of the top, therefore low delinquency rates..."

///Nearly one-third of U.S. homeowners have no mortgage///

Those who own homes outright include retirees and a surprisingly high percentage of young adults, real estate website Zillow finds.

Economists and housing analysts said that Zillow's estimates are in line with historical norms.

But the proportion of these owners is likely to grow as the nation's baby boomers reach retirement. The fact that they can pay cash when they move will make them increasingly important players in a recovering housing market.

"Those are the people who have the greatest flexibility," said Svenja Gudell, a senior economist with Zillow.

As the economy picks up, regions with high percentages of free-and-clear owners probably will get a boost.

"That means there is a lot more disposable income," said Celia Chen, a housing economist with Moody's "That is positive for the local economy."


"If bankruptcy filings are down, does it mean that people don't have enough money to pay a lawyer to start and finish the process? Is it because the bankruptcy law changed a few years ago?"

///Some less than fuzzy math///


"Credit card delinquency rates are down? Just who is using credit cards like they were used years ago to back up delinquency rates stats?"

///Credit-Card Delinquencies Declined in May///

Gordon Smith, chief executive of consumer and community banking for J.P. Morgan, said this month during an investor presentation that the bank expects to reduce loan-loss reserves by more than $1 billion this year. The company had previously estimated it would release as much as $1 billion in loss reserves for the year.

"Hahahahahahahaha Nail, what kind of pot is he smoking?"

My guess is a Sativa blend. But I can't source it.

"Last stat I heard is that 47% of Americans are not working for one reason or another and the ones working are under employed or part time."

Can you source this info?

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think the reality is somewhere in between the picture you two as painting. It's been a jobless recovery, although I think adjustment is a more apt description than recovery. With low paying jobs having been 20% of the jobs lost, they are 60% of the jobs "created". Again, returned might be a better description than created. Middle income jobs, just reverse the numbers, 60% of the losses but only 20% returning. So essentially, the economy has replaced middle income jobs with low paying jobs, and by a dramatic margin. Low paying jobs equal less money in circulation, less revenue for government agencies, and a lot more demand for social services.

mrd — July 8, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — July 8, 2013 at 1:39 p.m.

You forgot to mention the middle income jobs that got cut only to bring them back as lower income jobs. Funny how some of these employers are.

hawkeye — July 8, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"What you posted is BS. Total BS. We do not have access to the databases from the banks or other sources to have an objective analysis of the real numbers so those stats are total BS."

holycrapola — July 8, 2013 at 1:24 p.m.

The Wall Street Journal-L.A. Times-Moody's Economy-Law 360

"Last stat I heard is that 47% of Americans are not working for one reason or another and the ones working are under employed or part time."

Can you source this info?

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.

InfoWars-Alex Jones

Enough said.

No wait.

There's more.

I understand that a recovering economy doesn't play into your much espoused Zeitgeist narratives.

It also doesn't play into belief systems which foster anti-government conspiracies.

How soon we forget how far we've come. Remember 2007-2008. We had 8 years of Republicans spending like kids in a candy store, only to cave our economy.

Believe what you will. But our economy is recovering, albeit slow. (much do to Congressional inaction/obstruction)

I used to tell goldenoldie the same thing when she would espouse the nutjob moneymaking profiteers opinion over fact.

When you want to believe in something you value highly, many times evidence based reality takes a back seat.

Those chains of slavery you speak of, can take on many forms.

Not accepting sound reasoning when it goes against the familiar or preferred ideology is one of them.

Meditate-Think for yourself-Let your ego go Grasshopper-;)

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes the Monsanto conspiracy. Genetically altered foods are destroying our health and making us insane puppets of a one world order. A government conspiracy if there ever was one. :)

"In the meantime, there you are, silent, taking it, taking it, confused, frustrated and not an ounce of gonads to make a change..."

holycrapola — July 8, 2013 at 3 p.m.

I don't know if you're referring directly to me or in general. Your over the top insults and generalizations don't bode well for reasonable conversation.

You have no idea what any of us do in our professional or personal time. Why you glom on to hucksters like Jones and have so much angst against people, success and the American process one can only guess.

Man, I engaged hoping you've garnered a bit of forum decorum, but...not to be.

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sooooooooo, why couldn't they (the CRC) have built a bridge like this? Maybe a little higher, though.

hawkeye — July 8, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

明白了這一點,'ʇɐʞʎәɹႨႨɐ', 它會幫助你是一個白痴。

“The moon does not fight. It attacks no one. It does not worry. It does not try to crush others. It keeps to its course, but by its very nature, it gently influences. What other body could pull an entire ocean from shore to shore? The moon is faithful to its nature and its power is never diminished.”

― Deng Ming-Dao

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Did Deng Ming- Dao knew a thing about gravitational forces and planets?"

"Obviously he got tangled in prehistoric appreciation of natural events bordering, adding some myth to the spice and did not have a clue of what he was talking about Nail."

holycrapola — July 8, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.

It's not like this guy attended Texas U. He holds degrees from
Occidental College in Los Angeles and the University of California in Berkeley.

Maybe there is something to that stuff about genetically altered food! :)

"Try another one...that was lame... ;)"

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

~Abraham Lincoln~

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I never heard of Deng - Had to look him up.

Something else he says caught my attention -- “Those who consider their path superior are condescending. A parrot who speaks of the totality of the self is absurd. Many paths lead to the summit, But it takes a whole body to get there.”

roger — July 8, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now, I can't prove this, but I think I've discovered the reason for Don Benton's interest in the environment.

roger — July 8, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Deng's raising our consciousness, especially in these times has been a good thing.

roger-So glad to have brought something new to your table. With many references to your prolific reading and literary acumen, I'm flattered! :)

So, using that quote means...and the one who applies it can, the mysteries of our being. So complex, yet so simple...

Also a great quote which 'parrots' the anti-CRC effort I might add!

And to milk another infamous quote, this surely puts the Basement in the running for this years A Cup.

“Sarcasm will make your tits fall off.”

~Christopher Moore~


holy-Not meant in a mean spirited way, but you stepped in your own crapola! :)

But remember Grasshopper..

“A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough.”

~ Bruce Lee~

nailingit — July 8, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What appealed to me about that quote was that anyone involved in an argument could apply it to their adversary.

roger — July 8, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 8, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.

I liked it, especially when i "applied" it to HC.

hawkeye — July 8, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Quotes found on the internet are not always accurate" ~Abraham Lincoln

willbridge — July 9, 2013 at 12:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

willbridge — July 9, 2013 at 12:04 a.m. ---

Yes - You have a point. Snopes is a valuable tool. Was Abe a PC or a Mac user?

roger — July 9, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, that was funny, I don't care who you are.

hawkeye — July 9, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Timeric, did you see this?

hawkeye — July 9, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"The U.S. may not have regained its swagger, but economic self-confidence is returning."

It isn't economic self confidence our nation needs. It's ***ECONOMIC SELF RELIANCE*** which we need. Confidence is an emotion. Reliance is an action. Actions speak louder than words.

goldenoldie — July 9, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"I used to tell goldenoldie the same thing when she would espouse the nutjob moneymaking profiteers opinion over fact."*

Still can't get me out of your mind??? Must be like an annoying song stuck in your head, huh!!!


goldenoldie — July 9, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"I mean, we are so "numb" in the brain department by "chemical" additives that we ingest hidden in foods and drinks or by our own decision that we do not react anymore. We can't claim "ignorance" because these numbers are based on facts out of government financed programs."*

More truth to the message than most read into it. Have you noticed lately, the actions and demeanor of many people has suddenly changed in the past 6 months? It's almost as if someone suddenly flipped a switch or something.

Welcome to Uhmerrrrrikah!!!

goldenoldie — July 9, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Was Abe a PC or a Mac user?

roger — July 9, 2013 at 5:35 a.m.


BTW if you haven't watched Spielberg's Lincoln, it's well worth the time. Extremely well acted with painstaking detail.

nailingit — July 9, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just read the article.Sounds like a nice addition to the old building.And they didn't even need light rail.Keep up the good work there Hawkeye.When it gets done come get me if they will let you I would like to see it.

timerick — July 9, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail - 20 lashes for conjuring up ghosts of nutjobs past....

soapbox4u — July 9, 2013 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nail - 20 lashes for conjuring up ghosts of nutjobs past....

soapbox4u — July 9, 2013 at 12:10 p.m.

My sincere apologies to you and the basement. No conjuring intended. Still, my example to crap was crap. It was ill thought as to the possible consequences. 20 lashes sounds about right.

I'll place a 4 in front of the 20, it will help my wounds heal from a painful mistake.

nailingit — July 9, 2013 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the Lincoln recommendation - I'll look for the DVD. (I don't have the tolerance for sitting through a movie in a theater - I have to get up and do stuff while watching a movie.)

I'm currently (as of last night) watching Gods and Generals - It's about Stonewall Jackson. I think it's by the same people who put out the movie Gettysburg, which was pretty good. Episode 1 was OK - perhaps a bit hokey in parts, but they did a good job of giving the main characters personality, and seems to be heading toward trying to explain how their religious beliefs could allow things like slavery. We'll see. The damned thing is about 4 hours, so it'll take me a while.

I recently discovered the used DVD store in the same complex as the Mill Plain WalMart. They've got a good selection - I've been buying up a lot of the old classics - The Wild Bunch, Von Ryans Express, Dirty Dozen, French Connection, etc, etc. I found my Black Adder (series 1-4) there too - yeah!!!

roger — July 9, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — July 9, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

No problem. As soon as it's "safe" I'll let you know.

hawkeye — July 9, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

C-Tran Composition Review Committee now on CVTV 23 or streaming

langenthal — July 9, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I am with timerick in thanking you for the link to the article about the old city hall. How did I miss that? I saw the work being done, but had no idea of what the final plans would be.

I love it when vacant buildings are purchased and thoughtfully restored. It is a fantastic location! So good to see money being re-invested here by a hometown family.

manthou — July 9, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u: Lew W is recuperating from surgery. Besides wishing him a speedy recovery, I hope he gets back to blogging soon to keep his loyal commenters busy and engaged. Looks like they have some time on their hands.

manthou — July 9, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langethal: I am tuned in. Let's see if they succeed in keeping Vancouver's voice smaller than its ridership.

manthou — July 9, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good for her! This makes me happy knowing it must excite our basement conservatives. I'm sure they, and well as many Libertarian leaning Conservatives find this news as hopeful as it is exciting.

///Sarah Palin: 'I've Considered' A Senate Run///

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) is considering going back on the ballot.

In an interview on "The Sean Hannity Show" Tuesday, the 2008 vice presidential candidate indicated she might throw her hat in the ring to become one of Alaska's U.S. Senators.

"I've considered it because people have requested me considering it," Palin said, after Hannity mentioned rumors of a potential Senate run.

(what'd she say?)

"I'm still waiting to see, you know, what the lineup will be and hoping that, there again, there will be some new blood, new energy -- not just kind of picking from the same old politicians in the state," Palin continued.

(sounds like she's testing the waters for a new reality show?!?)

Also as a side note, I read that Lizzy Hasselback is leaving the View abruptly and moving to Fox & Friends.

Needless to say, the world of Journalism was not affected by this breaking news. :)

nailingit — July 9, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The M&M; Bros., stinking up the place. You get what you pay for.


nailingit — July 9, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*"Without money from Washington, Oregon and the feds there will be no "alternate" plan. Without both states agreeing there will be no "alternate" plan. Show me the one Oregon politician who is wiling to publicly commit to leveling a North Portland neighborhood (and political suicide) for a 3rd bridge? For the umpteenth time: Clark County doesn't get to decide or design this bridge (or any bridge for that matter) by itself! What a waste of time!"* - Jim Moeller

Sir...maybe some day, you'll realize that with your position of Clark County Representative, what a waste of *time AND money* your special-interest rallies in favor of the failed CRC design have been. How 'bout joining forces to bring living-wage, industrious jobs to Clark County which would help reduce traffic flow OVER the bridges and increase business to the people of our community rather than whining about your biggest failure in your political history???

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"Besides wishing him a speedy recovery, I hope he gets back to blogging soon to keep his loyal commenters busy and engaged."*

Ignorance is bliss.

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 6:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another state law that went haywire.

In Florida, the legislature inadvertently banned all internet devices:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 10, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 10, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.

It's amazing how smart people can do such dumb things!

I find it interesting that the main talking point from the right is freedom. Both personal and from government.

Yet it seems these same folks are always grabbing the headlines for restricting and denying such freedom at both levels.

And those on the right that aren't in power stay silent by & large.

The silent pajority! :)

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — July 10, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Sorry holyc...didn't vote for Madore. I almost did, but my gut feeling said "no." Everything else you said in the comment, it may sound conspiracy theorist in nature, but it's pretty darned close to what is happening behind the scenes.

The master plan and the shadow government...

As far as I can see, the status of our government has dropped worldwide. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist myself but...well...I will; but only for this explanation so bear with me. It's because those in charge of the master plan (something not written but understood) and shadow government aren't under our leadership. They are their own entity. Our own government leadership are mere puppets on a string in a much grander scale. You might start taking a closer look at the UN, the EU and a few other global organizations involving several nations' leadership. Why else do you think billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars are going to nations in the Middle East and Afghanistan? You really think our president truly has control of these decisions of whether or not to help his own nation or to pay out to these others???

All I can say is there isn't a damned thing we can do on a global scale, but as I've been saying from long, long ago...if you have any debt, you'd best be doing your part to eliminate it.

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And holyc...I'm just going to continue the rest of my God-given days, treating each day as if it were the last day of human existence and continue to be thankful for every day I have my family, my friends and my good health rather than worry about what is to come.

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not only did they drop Paula Deen, but now they want to sell the whole company to CHINA!!!!

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Here's How To Get In Touch With The Senators Who Voted Against Lowering Student Loan Rates///

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.


這看起來並不像一個很好的舉措。這是所有關於$ $ $。

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail,what is wrong with all these repubs.They and the rest of our government give money to every piece of S**t country in the world but can't help our young students.Banks intrest is what 1.5% at best.But we are going to charge our young over 6% for money.Do these people ever think?And I can't read Chinese.

timerick — July 10, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail,what is wrong with all these repubs.

timerick — July 10, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.

Don't get me started! :)

Too late!

It is really, really sad what has happened to the right. It's why this congress is rated by far to be the worst in our great Country's history. When I post that Conservatives are ruining our Country, I mean it from the bottom of my patriotic heart.

The best we can do is get involved in some capacity to include voting.

They kill everything from Veteran's Jobs Bills to reasonable College Interest Rates.

The end of last week's forum was telling in some respects. There is a faction holding our process hostage to extremism, perpetuated by talking heads such as Rush and Hannity. A few posters mirror their talking points almost to the word.

They'd rather run the country into the ground before compromising or furthering beneficial governance for American citizens. The pundits are laughing all the way to the bank, while the people who offer support cloak themselves in "constitutional superiority", not understanding and/or caring about consequence or truth.

Conservatives such as Santorum actually believe higher education is some kind of evil.

Look for another debt ceiling fight, and watch the folks who support it and why. Therein will lie the answer as to what's wrong.

Amazing times we live in! :))

I can't read Chinese either!


And then there's the conspiracy nuts who've dropped out altogether. They'll believe just about anything.

A telemarketers dream!

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — July 10, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.

In the world of honesty and integrity in politics on any given occasion holyc, I would agree with you. We're not talking about politics as we understand it. It's a power much higher than we can ever fathom as average members of the global community. Ask yourself why certain political leaders can say without a doubt that what will happen will happen whether we want it or not? What is it they know, holyc? And WHO is it they know?

We have seen Greece, Spain, Italy and other nations crumble down to the lowest of lows in economic climate. People are starving. They're fighting with every last breath they take. They are dying. Poverty is at its worst. Here in the P/V area, armed robbers are stealing food from quick marts. Homes are broken into and food is taken along with other items. Again, ask why?

Our freedoms are slowly being taken away from us with our government acquiring more control of every facet of our lives. We've ALLOWED them to do it. Even the 420 crowd celebrates here in Washington State as they believe they have more "freedom" when it comes to marijuana but the truth is, they've sold themselves by allowing the government to say what they can and cannot do with the marijuana. Did they care before? Did they have to have Big Brother regulate it? And what about Same Sex Marriages? Why did our laws have to be so complex that it took the SCOTUS to make such a decision? Who do we have to blame for that complexity, holyc?

Our health care??? Obama's health care reform??? It was passed with much opposition but our representatives of government still agreed to it. Why is that, holyc? Why would they accept something without a compromise unless it was for the betterment of all? Is it reform or is it increased government control and yet another way for the government to acquire more of our hard-earned wages, leaving more people broke...destitute...without anything??? If you can't afford to pay for your own insurance, you'll be fined at tax time. If you're 26-35, you'll be helping out the older people by paying a higher premium. If you're a smoker, you'll pay more. If you're overweight, you'll pay more. Prejudice at its finest...all approved by our fearless leaders. If you can't afford to pay for your medical care, you'll be denied at the front door. And what will the end result be for those who cannot afford to continue their medications, their health care??? Is this the beginning of population reduction in a highly demented manner???

Or has it been happening and the people cannot even see it for what it is??? Suddenly, it will be an everyday occurrence if it isn't already.

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And then there's the deniers who haven't opened their eyes yet. They count on public television personalities to explain it all for them in a way that only the deniers can believe.

goldenoldie — July 10, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I would also like to wish Lew W a speedy, speedy, immediate recovery.

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.

A dirty secret is that we haven't seen a REAL Smithfield ham on the national market since the '60s, when they did away with the requirement that the oinkers be raised on peanuts. And even those hams they sell in the Smithfield chain are toned down - nowhere near as salty as the real thing. Slices of the real ham at room temp with a bit of yellow mustard - good eats!!!

roger — July 10, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bill Maher on evangelical christians

roger — July 10, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Received a solicitation from the Nat'l Audubon Society today - they're wanting me to send money so they can save the birds. One section was on things to do to attract more birds to your yard. I tossed it in the recycle bin before coming inside - didn't want my cats to see this.

roger — July 10, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 10, 2013 at 4:48 p.m

Yea, what you said.

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

and then there is this...

Yea, we should really keep the old healthcare system. You know, the one where pre-existing conditions are not covered, where cancer patients get cut off, etc. etc. etc. Great system!

When I see the inflated bills full of lies the docs send to insurance carriers,I feel sick. When I see what insurance do, I feel see. Big pharma? Please.

But yea, we don't need a change. \sarcasm

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 10, 2013 at 5:38 p.m

I had a "Smithfield" ham a few years back, tasted like crap. The Costco hams are much better. I say sell it to China, maybe that will put the final nail (no not you, nailingit) in the coffin. Serves them right, expensive lousy tasting ham. The only thing they had going for them was Paula Deen.

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk - I always thought the Smithfield ham was the cheap one in the store? never looked appealing to me. Did it taste good to anybody?

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Home Rule Forum now --- CVTV 21

Panel is very informative. Chance to hear from residents I don't often see.

langenthal — July 10, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When an insurance underwriter is forced to pay for the treatment of a pre existing condition of a new enrollee, then the risk is 100%, and the policy can not rightly be referred to as insurance. Just another euphemism.

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 7:11 p.m.

That might be true if you were buying a policy for just one thing. Never seen that kind of coverage but I'll bet you have.

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.


That requires some explanation on your part.

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — July 10, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.

Hey HC. You like good swing dance music? I sure do. That’s really good swing dance stuff, for the fast paced.

Although you’re totally messed up (no offence or anything) – you do exhibit a redeeming quality every once in a while.

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 7:40 p.m.

It's a short statement, what part don't you understand?

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

“Insuring” a pre existing condition has meant that anyone with a medical problem could take out an “insurance” policy and then have their $200,000 surgery immediately; then cancel their supposed “insurance”policy immediately after.

What are you even talking about? Just what do you think that the controversy over the idea of covering “pre existing” conditions is all about anyway?

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail this college loan thing really hits home for me.I have my youngest son going to Clark and I have my oldest grandson going to Central.Both are using scholarships and student loans and Dad and grandpa and grandma.These kids are trying to become better in this life.And what do we get from our government?Nothing.I will put most of the blame on the repubs but also the dems hold some responsibility.There has to come a time and soon that we as people stand up and say get your head out of your ass.The ones making the rules do not have to worry about money.It is us the worker bee's that have the worry.What do we do?Rebel?I do not know how to change things.I don't think our vote is enough.All we end up with is the same type of people in office.

timerick — July 10, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, thanks for bringing up the loans. I got one in college myself, and this truly enrages me. bickering, while the kids worry about more debt. Given tuition these days, one can go bankrupt paying for it. Us little folks do not count, it's the select few that get their way. Those idiots in congress, how did we get to this point?

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 10:02 p.m.

Of course, you make an assumption that the purpose of college is for edudation. While that may be the case for some, I posit that any American whose been to college in the past 50 years knows that there’s a reason for the “top party school” write ups in various publications.

Just more paper and pencil thinking; that spending taxpayer money means superior results.

Spend your own money – fine. It’s supposed to be a free country. Spend taxpayer’s money – not so fine. Once again; Asians are a cut above in academics, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have anything to do with money per student.

BTW; have you noticed how many American employers can’t find qualified welders? Maybe they’re all in college at taxpayer expense learning the history of American film, while Rome burns.

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 9:16 p.m

Yea, pretty sure it don't work that way.

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"There has to come a time and soon that we as people stand up and say get your head out of your ass.The ones making the rules do not have to worry about money.It is us the worker bee's that have the worry.What do we do?Rebel?I do not know how to change things."

timerick — July 10, 2013 at 9:22 p.m.

I have a two kids attending PCC and Clark this year. I hear you bro.

Vote people out of office who espouse religious conservatism such as at kn_dalai — July 10, 2013 at 10:50 p.m.

Denounce it at the polls when and where ever you can. Public or personal debate, this latest conservative kick is ruining our country. They seriously want to run America in the ground, attacking education is one of their ways.

God forbid anyone should partake in any activity while attending school! (they should be studying or in church for Christ's sake!) I dig this forum. No one in life (for real) would say something as pompous.

A small faction of people believe this way, as well as the ridiculous insurance argument. (Remember the resounding cheers when Ron Paul suggested we let people die in the street?) This latest fad of conservatism is something else. Serious life changing issues like this and college loan interest rates are a joke to these guys. And besides...

Higher education promotes free thought-conservatives hate that -with a passion.

timerick...since ideology does play a major role in these political decisions, (such as voting against lowering interest rates) you say Dems share in the blame for the interest rate fiasco.

It's critical we bring proportion as well as perspective. How many [Dems] bore responsibility for this latest idiocy with interest rates?

Who voted against?







So yeah, Dems are to blame also. One.

Let's remember this at the polls. Share this info with friends and family. Write these guys and let them know it's not only society's privileged born into wealth who deserve a higher education and a fair shake, but those who work hard for scholarships, grants and needing assistance as well.

Denounce this stuffy hypocritical old white conservatism that refuses to give a dollar from their tight unprepared for life's end pockets, to help our youth and others better themselves. They hate anything that might cost them a buck.

Unless it's going to a corporation that is. ;(

Like I said. Hypocritical.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 12:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, pretty sure it don't work that way.

hawkeye — July 10, 2013 at 10:52 p.m.

You are absolutely right hawkeye. There are so many scenarios in which insurance companies deny on the "pre-existing condition" clause (or used to before the Health Care Act) it ain't funny.

I'm reluctant to declare Conservatism a disease. Because they'd be the first to sign up for free care.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 12:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 1:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — July 10, 2013 at 6:46 p.m.

Good article luvit. Depressing but good. Maybe someday we'll treat fellow Americans as well as other countries treat their citizens. Till then I guess we'll die unhealthier and quicker than others.

Ben Casey must be rolling over in his grave.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 1:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't always eat ham, but when I do...

Hormel® Cure 81® hams are sized for every meal occasion. Whether it's for a large family get-together, quick lunch or dinner for two, there is a Hormel Cure 81® ham just right for the occasion.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 1:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"Yea, we should really keep the old healthcare system. You know, the one where pre-existing conditions are not covered, where cancer patients get cut off, etc. etc. etc. Great system!..."*

Some people don't understand my point. Healthcare coverage should not be mandatory on the part of the patients. The AFFORDABLE cost of coverage, medical care and elimination of pre-existing condition criteria should be a mandate on the part of the insurance companies and medical professionals. The current Obamacare program forces all who have not been preferentially excluded to join by a certain date or be fined. If the program is so damned good, then why is it our own government leaders are excused??

Think about it.

goldenoldie — July 11, 2013 at 5:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The definition of higher education has flipped in the last few years. used to be that people understood that a well educated populace serves the country. Now we have a portion of the country that opines that higher Ed serves only the individual. Goes right along with the extremely narrow thinking that colleges need to be turned into vocational schools.
College is not for everyone. There is nothing wrong with a blue collar job. I treasure a good plumber or electrician. But college is not supposed to be just for the offspring of the wealthy. And we are moving right back to that thinking. Backwards as usual these days in this country.

(Nails, guess Santorum's kids will not be allowed to go to college. That would make them evil intellectuals. They will all be welders).

As for Pre-existing conditions. If you are born with a chronic condition, insurance could deny you treatment for it forever. Yea, I don't think this was done for the purpose of sign up, get an elective surgery, quit the insurance.

luvithere — July 11, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don’t like to address you nail, because you’re so off the wall hyper fanatical that you’re irrelevant. I’ve told you this before and you have agreed with me on more than one occasion. I guess anyone who has followed along here, might know why that is.


"religious conservatism such as at kn_dalai", where do you get this stuff from. Nothing but small thinking and stereotyping.

kn_dalai — July 11, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The religious zealots,and they are on both sides,have no business deciding what is good for all of us.I see nothing wrong with being conservative with a little of a liberal view point mixed in.But when you throw religion in to the mix it gets to distorted towards that view point.And that is not good for any of us.I have nothing against religion but I don't want it to be a deciding factor at least in my life.

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 8:15 am: Could not agree with you more. Whatever gets you through the night, but don't force-feed it to others as the one and only truth.

Also, to add to your discussion about college loan rates with luvithere yesterday:

Oregon has introduced an interesting idea that Washington might be willing to consider. That is, providing free in-state tuition to everyone who agrees to pay back the state 3 percent of their future earnings. I guess it would be drawn out of any salary you get, like SS or Federal taxes.

manthou — July 11, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou,the 3 percent sounds like a good idea.It is more in line with what loans for students used to be.My point was that I think it is just just wrong to charge students 6 percent or higher to borrow money.I think they need to pay any borrowed monies back,but at a rate that is reasonable.And like I said our government seems to have no problem just giving money to every country that asks us for it.And how much of that money gets paid back to us?

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 11, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
It won't fly. Indentured servants for 20+ years. The bill is badly written. Does not account for inflation, decreased/increased tuition, etc. Doubt this will go anywhere.

luvithere — July 11, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*"As for Pre-existing conditions. If you are born with a chronic condition, insurance could deny you treatment for it forever. Yea, I don't think this was done for the purpose of sign up, get an elective surgery, quit the insurance."*

All the more reason why the government intervention in medical insurance laws should be to abolish any "pre-existing condition" clauses (I prefer to call them loopholes) from any and all insurance policies rather than fine the people for not having insurance. Find the insurance companies who leave these clauses in their policies.

goldenoldie — July 11, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Of course, you make an assumption that the purpose of college is for edudation."

How about the Feds subsidizing a school for fat fingered old farts.

"I don’t like to address you nail, because you’re so off the wall hyper fanatical that you’re irrelevant."

:)) You've floundered, pouted and left this forum in frustration how many times when folks call you out on your ridiculous musings about politics? Now you claim some sort of..relevancy? :))

"you have agreed with me on more than one occasion."

On some music, otherwise...nah. Don't try to work up your creds off my back. :)

"I don’t like to address you nail.."

Self flagellation?

"I posit that any American whose been to college in the past 50 years knows that there’s a reason for the “top party school” write ups in various publications."

You sound like the second coming of J Swaggart!

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, considering what banks pay for their privilege, I also agree that 6% or more for students is an outrage. I have no issue with paying back what you owe, but I do take issue -just like you- with sticking students with a higher interest rate than the rest.

luvithere — July 11, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"The religious zealots,and they are on both sides,have no business deciding what is good for all of us"

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.

I agree.

Again tim, we should apply proportion.

I know of NO Dem/Independent lawmakers who are "religious zealots" using their beliefs to alter/change policy to mirror it.

On the other hand....

Republicans base their campaign promises on such. And it's evident religious underpinnings are paramount in every single state they control, they make laws as evidence of this.

Republicans want theocratic rule at the state level. Undeniably.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I won't argue that religious point nail.But I do know several repubs that are not religious at all.Granted they hold no power in the party.And there are dems that go the extra mile with their religion,more so in the southern states than here.I have always voted for those that don't put a religious spin on what they say they are going to do.Again I have nothing against religion.It is just not for me.And this is coming from a man having put 2 kids through Catholic school from pre school through high school.Thanks to a exwife that thought it was good for them.Funny thing now is that neither kid will have anything to do with the religion they were taught.

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tim- I know Dems who are religious/not religious. But the ones we vote for...that's what counts.

///Texas Threat to Abortion Clinics Dodged at Flea Markets///

At an open-air flea market outside McAllen, Texas, near the Mexican border, shoppers can buy a goat and get their car windows tinted. Tables with handwritten signs touting Viagra are stocked with herbal remedies promising to burn fat and boost breast size. You can also find pills to end a pregnancy.

Bazaars like this have become home to a black market where women too poor to afford an abortion at a clinic or deterred by state mandates such as a 24-hour waiting period can buy drugs to induce a miscarriage on their own, a dozen area residents and doctors said in interviews.

Hundreds of miles north in Austin, the capital, lawmakers may inadvertently increase this illegal trade. Rules set to pass as soon as this week might result in the closing of most, if not all, abortion facilities in the state. If the law -- promoted as a way to improve women’s health -- makes legal abortion unavailable in Texas, more women may turn to markets such as the one near McAllen and risk their lives.

“You’d be amazed at how many people, young people, are taking those pills,” said Erlinda Dasquez, a 29-year-old mother of four who has done so herself. “I probably know 12 to 20 people who have done this. My cousin just went to the flea market a few months ago.”

//Bleeding Woman//

Women in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, along the southeastern border with Mexico, said it’s already harder for them to control their reproductive lives since the state cut funding for birth control in 2011.

In the past few years, health-care providers in the valley, one of the state and nation’s poorest regions, have seen an increasing number of women suffering from incomplete abortions and bleeding after taking drugs unsupervised, they said.

The pills, which are known by the brand name Cytotec and require a prescription in the U.S., are designed to prevent stomach ulcers. They can also induce abortion. Until recently, obtaining them meant a trip across the border to Mexican towns such as Nuevo Progreso, where pharmacies can legally sell them without a prescription.

Underground imports have brought the trade stateside. Whether it’s the actual Pfizer Inc. medication or a generic, side effects include premature birth and uterine rupture. The drug isn’t typically on display at flea markets. All you need to do is ask, residents said.


"Last year, Texas’s Health and Human Services Commission estimated that during 2014 and 2015, poor women would give birth to nearly 24,000 more babies as a result of the cuts. Of the state’s 288 clinics offering family-planning before the cuts, 56 have since closed, while others are open as little as one day a week..."

Read more @

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///Rush Limbaugh Bust Needs To Be 'Flushed' Out Of Missouri State Capitol, Say 5,000 People In Petition///

Missouri leaders are facing pressure to remove a bust of conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh from the state capitol building.

A petition asking Gov. Jay Nixon (D), Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder (R) and the state Legislature to "flush Rush" out of the state Capitol's hall of fame has garnered over 5,000 signatures on

"We need to remove a man's image who makes it his priority to demean women, people of color, immigrants, the working class and the LGBT community," the petition reads. "He is not a positive example for Missouri."

The bronze Rush bust was inducted into the Hall of Famous Missourians last year amid controversy over him calling Georgetown law student Sandra Fluke a "slut" and a "prostitute" for advocating for affordable contraception coverage.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail do people really take these talking heads seriously.I mean from both sides.To me it would be like taking the Simpsons as the typical family.I look at all of them as just entertainment and not very good entertainment.I still believe that most people are capable of coming up with their own thoughts.I hope I am right.

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nail and tim: Speaking of talking heads, I am sharing this great graphic I saw today from Media Matters.

It shows that being white and male will get you better representation on most of the Sunday talk shows.

Melissa Harris-Perry has done her bit to promote women of color on her show.

I eat up these at-a-glance charts!

[link text][1]


manthou — July 11, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

White males dominate the guest schedule because they dominate politics, finance, business, hell, everything.

What surprised me was conservative white males appeared twice as often as liberal white males. And here I thought the media was biased against conservatives.

mrd — July 11, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd do you suppose that happens because most conservatives are more controversial than liberals.And that sells products for the advertisers.

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You bet I do. I'd tune in to hear a white male explain how a woman can't get pregnant when raped if she really doesn't want to. Great stuff right there.

Well thought out positions that come with in-depth explanations aren't probably good for the ratings, kinda boring maybe.

mrd — July 11, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Less than 20% of Congress and US govenors are women. Think that might have something to do with why there are more men on those shows than women? I’d really like to see how they defined Right, Left and neutral. A foregone conclusion that they defined those terms to their own liking.

Media Matters is a self described “Progressive” organization. You can bet their goal is to do a hit job on anyone who isn’t up to their Socialist standards.

kn_dalai — July 11, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — July 11, 2013 at 4:25 p.m
Yes, seems like we get to hear some white old male dude telling us how rape is not really rape on a daily basis. Them boys are sure obsessed with sex. If not talk about rape, they sure as heck try hard to refuse access to reproductive matters, including abortion (see Texas but I can't say more on that or my blood pressure boils).

A friend of mine always said they can talk about it when they have the right physical equipment or when they start thinking with their brain. Obviously when pigs fly.

Did these people not run on "jobs" in 2010? What happened to that? Why not run on what seems to be their biggest topic? Sex/rape/keep the woman folk in their place.

Apropos keeping women in their place....

Sick of these people.

luvithere — July 11, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So here's what nail says:

> I know of NO Dem/Independent lawmakers who are "religious zealots" using their beliefs to alter/change policy to mirror it. -- nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 10 a.m

Now, lets take a look at a quote from luvithere's link of July 11, 2013 at 5:03 p.m.

> “The Bible says, to whom much is given, much is required, “Rep. Corrine Brown (D-FL) observed during debate over whether funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) should be stripped from the farm bill. “And this is a sad day in the Hoouse of Representatives. Shame on the Republicans! Shame on the House of Representatives!”

Actually, it’s very common place for the Left to invoke the name of Jesus, and the Bible, to justify their belief in Socialism through government.

BTW, The Raw Story also is also self descibed as “Progressive”. Just as Media Matters is. Personally, I wouldn’t have referred to that exchange as “Tempers Flare”, like the headline to that Leftist blog did.

kn_dalai — July 11, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 11, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

Interesting charts & stats. Fox needs some Middle Eastern men time.

Let's send them all of Hezbollah!

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Nail do people really take these talking heads seriously"

timerick — July 11, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.

Yes! But the difference is...

Who is the leader, and the voice, of the Democratic Party?

One would have to say Prez Obama.

Who is the leader, and/or the voice, of the Republican Party?





See what I mean? I mean who is the spokesperson for Republican policy. Boehner? LOL. The fact that they are such a fractured lot leaves them leaderless, cluelessness becomes a by product from letting the media coughs like Rush influence them. They have no spokesperson if they haven't Limbaugh. Congress Conservatives weigh this Blowhards voice heavily.`This not only speaks to how weak and split the GOP has become, but helps to understand why they aren't able to accomplish anything..

I remember the stink when they first put this bulbous bodacious busty head in Mizzou's Capital and I commented on it in the basement. It's like a time bomb. The Right's State politicians across our Country are making our process look like a joke.

Maybe someday Rush's Head Bust will be sold on E-Bay, and purchased by a community driven Gay Activist. This abysmal bellyaching abomination deserves a fitting tribute for years to come! [: O

A Cyndi Lauper tune comes to mind....

Elect Jethro to decide matters of importance and this is what we get. Is Bachman still on the Intelligence Committee? :)

When Rush disagrees with the direction of his party, it makes headlines in the Conservative realm. Always good for a chuckle.

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 11, 2013 at 6:45 p.m.

When you're in Rome, do as the Romans do...oh, wait, they're setting the fires!

I imagine one invents ways to deal with these back door hicks like Gohmert on the Hill. And God Bless her anyway.

You mean, just mentioning our dear Lord Jesus is "religious zealotry"? Say it ain't so!

Please, give the link.

I'd like to see the... of the story.

Context is so we've discussed in times before.

Surely there are Dems who appreciate and espouse Christianity, as there are on the right. But they don't act as a majored collective to enact law after law restricting Constitutionally protected personal freedoms, only later, and at the expense of the taxpayers, to be overturned in a higher court.


-Pardon me basement dwellers, allow me a private moment with brother knd-

{A false equivocation to justify what you know to be wrong. Why not be honest? At least with yourself. It's where it all begins Grasshopper. With you. Let yourself go, and embrace what you know to be right.

Come to Jesus once again my friend. Lay down your sorrows, your burdens, your inability to rationalize your viewpoints, and cast them aside so they lay at the feet of the Golden Alter my friend. Kneel with me, and let us pray...

Dear Gawd- Bring wisdom & insight to this very old insular soul. Please allow him to break the LimBonian chains that bind him to BoneHeaded Baggeristic idealism. Set his heart afire, one desirous of unfiltered truth, Wall Street regulations, O'BummerCare, Human Rights & Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

Yes God...make him a Democrat! (while you're at it, throw in a new personality) Jesus name amen......but what do you guys do this anyway?}

-Private moment is over-

Well, that didn't work.

In closing..

One of the many problems with the right is they won't speak up when something goes to hell in their own party. As a result, a snowballing even Senator Vitter would succumb to.

Liberal Socialist Leftist blogs are a solid reference as long as your point is (at least in your mind) validated.

Nothing new Jack. :)

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 10:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


[Please, give the link.

I'd like to see the... of the story.]

My mistake knd, I had straying thoughts reading your rant and failed to catch this.

And God Bless these fine folk I might add. :) Glory Be To On High for speaking out against these stingy anti-progress old bastards anyway. Jesus!

The Food Stamp separation has turned out most likely to be a good thing anyway, (people not losing benefits). I posted about it a few days ago.

Republican greed gone awry. As long as they line their pockets with taxpayer "earmarks". Like your hero Doc Paul.

How's Bob McDonnell anyway? Quite the story in Virginia from Morning Joe's Golden Child...

I usually don't call out corruption on either side unless it's serious, blatant and at high levels of Government. It happens so often.

But this...just sleazy sleazy stuff from wannabe Prez Guv "Ultrasound" and his buddy Cooch.


How's that new Rolex Bob?

nailingit — July 11, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Fine form, nail. Just fine!

hawkeye — July 12, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah right. Fine form if you happen to be Randal McMurphy.

kn_dalai — July 12, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am an admirer of all things vintage typewriter.

Remember those things?

I actually wrote my first graduate degree thesis on one, complete with carbon paper. And I am really not THAT old.

I have a journalist friend in NYC who still writes his stories out by hand and then completes them by a 2 finger hunt-and-peck method on his old college portable. You can still get the ribbons, amazingly.

I haul out my 1930's Royal every so often just for the comfort of hearing the staccato of the keys.

Sooooo, imagine my glee when I saw this today: The Kremlin, allegedly, is reverting back to the trusty typewriter to avoid computer hacking.

We all should consider turning off the technology and showing our kids and grandkids the pleasure of slow and steady:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 12, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I read today that Johnny Depp and The Lone Ranger is tanking at the box office. Anyone see it yet? I still intend to go.

Then I was directed to another great graph-filled article in The Atlantic.

Why have I lost interest in going to the movies? Why do movies seem so dumbed-down? Why are sequels so popular.

While we boomer parents wait for "Goonies 2", forever in production process, it seems, check out these graphs:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 12, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I've an old friend back in Philly who insists I need to see that movie - He says they actually applauded when it was over.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elizabeth Warren has co-sponsored legislation intended to keep banks from using federally insured deposits (I gather this means mainly savings accounts) to speculate on Wall Street. The banks are fighting this.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I must be crazy to be in a loony bin like this. (Randal McMurphy)

roger — July 12, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now that's the most sane comment I've seen comming out of this whine cellar for a long time.

kn_dalai — July 12, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope they replace the regulations on the banks. To me it seems to be a no-brainer, especially because the "too big to fail" banks are even bigger than before. I wonder if the new bill will force nationally chartered banks to return to being subject to state audits and insurance regulation. The oversight at the federal level sucks. As with big oil, inspectors often end up working in the same industry in a couple of years. With the thought of a very high-paying job in the future, I doubt they look real hard.

mrd — July 12, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Aww, c'mon, kn! You love the rough-and-tumble here and you know it. :) Otherwise, we would not be enjoying your contributions (no sarcasm intended).

"We are all part of the same hypocrisy."

A bag of skittles to the person who can identify who made that quote and to whom it was directed.

roger: Egad. Clapping in appreciation of a movie's end? Maybe Johnny Depp's is getting over exposed. I guess I will wait until it comes to cable.

manthou — July 12, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"If Mr. McMurphy doesn't want to take his medication orally, I'm sure we can arrange that he can have it some other way. But I don't think that he would like it."

~Nurse Ratched~

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Michael Corleone

I'll eat my skittles before taking a stroll.

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Senator Pat Geary...make it in time?

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Or anything progressive for that matter. (Parks, Transportation, Rule Of Law, etc.)

Why improve society when you're praying for it's demise?

Help Us Jesus!

///End-time believers may not care about climate change///

Research suggests a belief in the apocalypse, common in the GOP, reduces interest in the government taking action

End time belief has an almost salacious appeal in America—and not just to the four out of ten Americans who believe that Jesus Christ will return to Earth by 2050. At least since the Millerites were laughed off the national stage in 1844, watching prophecy fail has become something of a national pastime. The attitudes of the two groups—heavenly-minded believer and smirking spectator—are well captured in a pair of bumper stickers: “In case of Rapture, this car will be unmanned” and “In case of Rapture, can I have your car?”

But some in the spectator camp hold that America’s remarkably durable “rapture culture” is no laughing matter; that it might, in fact, be a menace to society. At issue is end time believers’ perceived lack of investment in the earth’s future. That is, if they believe Jesus is coming back, do they have any incentive to preserve and protect the environment for future generations?

Many who are concerned about the environment—including prominent figures like Al Gore, E.O. Wilson, and Bill Moyers—argue that for such believers the answer is no.

Although mistrust of end time believers’ earthly intentions has smoldered for decades, a new study about “End Times Theology” has added fuel to the fire. According to the study’s authors, political scientists David Barker and David Bearce, when it comes to climate change, “a belief in the Second Coming reduces the probability of strongly agreeing that the government should take action by more than 12 percent.”

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We're living in some pretty sad times these days!

*Over a Slurpee???*

goldenoldie — July 12, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So. Can a woman supervisor fire a man for the way he looks? Can a lesbian boss fire another woman for being too attractive? A gay man for the same? What about a sexually prolific poly sexual transgender person whose supervising, can they fire an entire staff for risk of sexual attraction?

The possibilities are endless...

Can a Conservative Man who owns a plumbing company, hire men based on their feminine traits because he's sexually attracted to girly men who look/act/sound like Rand Paul? And after having his way with Randy, then fire him for fear of an on-going relationship would compromise his business, as well as his Evangelical Church leadership??

///All-Male Iowa Supreme Court Rules Firing Of Woman For Being Too Attractive Was Legal///

IOWA CITY, Iowa -- The Iowa Supreme Court on Friday stood by its ruling that a dentist acted legally when he fired an assistant because he found her too attractive and worried he would try to start an affair.

Coming to the same conclusion as it did in December, the all-male court found that bosses can fire employees they see as threats to their marriages, even if the subordinates have not engaged in flirtatious or other inappropriate behavior. The court said such firings do not count as illegal sex discrimination because they are motivated by feelings, not gender.

The ruling upholds a judge's decision to dismiss a discrimination lawsuit filed against Fort Dodge dentist James Knight, who fired assistant Melissa Nelson, even while acknowledging she had been a stellar employee for 10 years. Knight and his wife believed that his attraction to Nelson – two decades younger than the dentist – had become a threat to their marriage. Nelson, now 33, was replaced by another woman; Knight had an all-female staff.

The all-male court issued its revised opinion Friday in the case after taking the unusual step last month of withdrawing its December opinion, which had received nationwide publicity, debate and criticism.

Nelson's attorney, Paige Fiedler, had asked the court in January to reconsider, calling the decision a blow for gender and racial equity in the workplace. She had warned the opinion could allow bosses to legally fire dark-skinned blacks and replace them with light-skinned blacks or small-breasted workers in favor of big-breasted workers.

The court had only granted reconsiderations five times in the last decade.;=Politics

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I would bet that you could also identify several quotes from "Lonesome Dove."

Just a hunch. :)

manthou — July 12, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The guy in Philly who told me they clapped has been raving for the past week about what a wonderful portrayal of the Lone Ranger story this is - that the Indian is the brains, etc, etc.

The whole story there is that he's one of my old college roomies. Three of us rented an old house - this guy (Murray) and the other (Carl) are both northeast Philly Jews. (Which led to plenty of jokes about Yids (properly pronounced Yeed) and Goyim.) Anyhow, Murray is part of the Philly liberal scene - He just retired from the Free Library, helps run the Philly Folk Festival, etc, etc. So I'm guessing he bought into all the hype put out about the movie and say it that way.

Carl is a businessman, and quite a bit more conservative. He was a History major, and has made it a hobby to be something of an authority on the Old West. (Freaking Jewish cowboys - totally amazing.) Anyhow, his comment back was just how could this movie be considered respectful to Indians when Tonto is running around wearing that stupid bird hat and silly face paint job?

Anyhow, I'm just laughing and egging that argument on. (I agree with Carl.) And I believe Depp's claim (if he actually made it) that the original was in some fashion derogatory to Indians is bogus - I grew up watching that show, and Jay Silverheels' Tonto was good stuff - nothing subservient there. (As opposed to the Stepin Ftechit portrayal of Blacks.)

roger — July 12, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A couple of days ago kn_dalai noted the real reason to go to college. I'm thinking that maybe he wasn't that far off. Partying was a big part of the scene at my college (Mansfield, in upstate central PA), and often led to absences from early classes (I quickly learned nothing got scheduled before noon if at all possible). My frat (TKE) was nearly as disreputable as the one on Animal House - We had a blast, and were on some sort of probation my soph year for a number of reasons.

North Carolina and LSU both had a decent party scene - I'd go visit buddies at those schools and always had a blast. But my personal favorite was Cortland State, about an hour north of Binghamton NY.

Fortunately, they really didn't care if you went to classes back then - just pass the exams and turn your papers in. I was gone visiting friends at other schools as much as I was there.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 12, 2013 at 2:46 p.m

My Grandkids (2) go to UNLV. Need I say more?

hawkeye — July 12, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, Hawk. Should I assume you guys learned zero in college? Besides drinking, chasing skirts, etc.?

Doubt it.

Some colleges are better than others. Some students are better students than others. All what you make of it.

Not to say that college should not be fun. You are only young once.

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 4:50 p.m.

Sorry Luv, that's ALL I did in college. Study. I think I went to one party but that was it. I had to pay for school by myself so I didn't want to waste my money.

The kids are doing really good at UNLV. They both have jobs and they are both doing the Greek thing. They are also both 3. or better students. In a city that is dedicated to money and booze, they are both doing really well. Great kids, I'm very proud of them.

hawkeye — July 12, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Excellent Hawk. Your earlier comment made it sound as if they were goofing off down there. One can be a good student and still have fun! My kid is a honor student, works, and tells me she has fun. With the right approach this can be a great time. I enjoyed my undergrad studies. Doctoral ones not so much, there was zero fun.

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

With a degree from Pennsylvania State University, an M.B.A. from the University of Pittsburgh, and a J.D. from Penn State Law, then the separate Dickinson School of Law...

This religious conservative is smart enough to know who he can sell his snake oil to, even if his life doesn't reflect it. His audience looks like an anti-light rail meeting, but more of them.

Conservatives want their children to have limited exposure to free thinking, Liberalism, the sciences, etc. Home school em', impregnate em' and put em' on Welfare and food assistance etc. etc. when they get laid off of their factory jobs. Santorum embodies current day Conservatism to a Tea.

Do as I say, not do as I do.

But we can put them, and so many others to work building the new Light Rail System!

Oh yeah.

Higher Education...It's all part of .......!!![[[The Agenda]]]!!!

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of Light Rail...

One more reason to have Light Rail. Public Safety. The cab of a light-rail train has no steering wheel, no brake pedal and no gas pedal. Control the lever with a foot control and problem solved!

///George Simpson, New Jersey Bus Driver, Accused Of Masturbating Behind The Wheel///

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I read that also Nails. Some of the online comments on the site where I caught it were absolutely hilarious. What a sicko.

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I would bet that you could also identify several quotes from "Lonesome Dove."

manthou — July 12, 2013 at 1:42 p.m.

One of my favorite scenes. So many quotes when one pokes around for them. :)

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 7:48 p.m.

What a Jerk!

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I also paid my own way - Worked my ass off in the summers, and worked odd jobs during the school year. I made damn good money writing papers for people during the year too. I learned a lot; just often other subjects than in the classes I was taking.

The probable highlight was during my junior year - I was something of a campus activist, so I was asked to introduce Dick Gregory. Hell yeah!!! I gave a very brief intro, and then told the story that got him hired by Hugh Hefner - the one about we don't serve colored folk - that's OK, I don't eat them - Bring me a chicken. So she brings the chicken and three white boys come up and say they're going to do to him whatever he does to that chicken. So he picks it up and kisses it, then says OK boys - line up and give me my kiss. It did not go across well at all - so I got pissed and said something along the lines of F-- You A--holes, maybe you'll appreciate our guest speaker blah blah. Dick came on and said something like "Hey there, boy - I'm the comedian here; let me tell the jokes." He got a standing O.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails at 7:38 pm - "One more reason to have Light Rail. Public Safety."

Please watch the video. That's the Yellow line; fortunately almost no one was riding it.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A problem with light rail sharing the road with cars.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We'd have the same learning curve here as Phoenix did with their metro trains.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok, Roger. Obviously THAT was a while ago.
Too bad really I cannot tell one of my own highlights as this is a family publication. Lets just say like all parentals I tell my kid to do what I say and not what I did.

luvithere — July 12, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't forget the TriMet Barber! P'Town won't be outdone by some New Jersey bus driver.

roger — July 12, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger’s video @ 8:04 p.m.

“There were a couple of people onboard when it happened….” A couple of people? Wow. A couple of people on a train of that size. What efficiency that light rail is. Must have something to do with economy of scale. And all this time I’ve been thinking that those single occupancy vehicle cars were the problem. But NO! For only forty times the size you can have TWICE as many riders!

“A Tri Met employee posted this video on YouTube and is now on leave while the agency investigates”. So whatever happened to that employee anyway? Sounds like Portland had it’s own Edward Snowden before it was cool to be Edward Snowden. Something tells me that the Portland Leftist Socialists really like that Edward Snowden for all his attempts at transparency; but believe the collective’s well being would be enhanced with that Tri Met transparency guy wearing gulag prisoner tag #1917.

kn_dalai — July 12, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another Loondoggle for sure!

nailingit — July 12, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well folks I finally did it. I took the max from Gresham to Orenco Station and back. I stopped at the ice cream social in pioneer square. What a hoot.

Over a period of eight hours here's some observations from my point of view. From what I could see some people did not pay. People with bikes didn't bother hanging them up so they wouldn't block doorways and aisles. People with strollers would not move so others had to dance around them to get off and on. There is a rudeness that permeates the air. Scowls and frowns abound. I saw exactly one fair inspector. He was furiously writing in his notepad. Who knows what? He appeared to be tailing a couple of suspects!? At one stop saw a couple of guys get on and promptly get off as soon as they saw him. One was so drunk his buddy was holding him up. The voice recording states that people must give up seating to handicapped and older people. Suuure. That didn't happen during rush hour. At some of the stops people getting on wouldn't move so some could get off first. People were rude with their cell phones. From playing their music without headphones to loud one sided conversations with who ever. There seems to be a loss of civility.

Now I didn't tell anyone what I was riding it for but I tried to engage people about max and it's benefits to the public. Those who did talk to me were jaded by the overall actions and rudeness. They gave the impression that they were just sloggin' along. Ya know like worker bees.

End of part one.

JohnCasey — July 13, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey: Interesting field study you undertook. I must say this, though. I have fare tickets that I purchase in advance and use as needed. So you won't see me lining up at the ticket kiosk to buy before my ride. I do have to time-stamp it, though. People with monthly passes do not time stamp, so, while it may appear they are not paying, they are actually pre-paid.

Speaking of the zombie CRC: Andrea Damewood is plying her very talented craft again at WW. Patricia McCaig is being investigated for possible ethics violations, based on two complaints filed:

[link text][1]

The story that keeps on giving....


manthou — July 13, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We have many Forum participants who love classic rock and roll, including me.

Let me make a movie recommendation: "20 Feet from Stardom", a SUPERB documentary about all those talented girl backup singers from the 60's to present. Playing at the Living Room Theatres in PDX. One of the best I have seen.

One of my favorite stories (there were so many) was how Merry Clayton was brought in, on a moment's notice, by Mick Jagger to record the back up vocals (unforgettable now) on Gimme Shelter in 1969. She was in her jammies and curlers, very pregant. He woke her up and she came in as is.

Here is a more mature and modern Merry working her magic on it:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 13, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, they are also doing an audit on Tri-Met. The gov of Oregon has signed off on it. Now it has been audited before but I'm thinking that this one may be the one to get them to reorganize their operations to better serve their community. One thing I saw was that there are needs that are not being implemented. One is more railcars at rush hour. Another is service by buses closer to the stops that don't have park and ride.

I saw some of the positives. But that was negated by some of the problems that I saw. Overcrowding at rush-hour seems to be the worse one. People are cranky when they get off work and it compounds when they can't at least sit down.

The main issue is still the cost of building and maintaining the system. To do such a short run over here here is just plain stupid. If it ever comes over here it should go out to Salmon Creek or at least to Vancouver Mall via I-205. To put up three parking structures in the core area was just adding to the problem, not a solution.

My next excursion will be taking the lines to the airport and to Clakamas town center. After that its off to the Zoo.

Bottom line is this. It serves Portland pretty good. But coming over her is going to be another matter. If and when they get it together it just might work. Until then ...

I also thought about putting the system into private hands. With a public oversight committee with no lawyers or politicians it might be a viable solution. Who knows?

If I lived over there I would use it. It's fairly comfortable an if you allot your time for it it is a useful conveyance. But if time is of the essence then take your car. It took me over three hours to get from Orenco station to Gresham.

JohnCasey — July 13, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

@manthou — July 13, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.

Thanks for the recommend and cool vid!


///Has the 1 percent committed treason?///

A small group of extremely wealthy people are systematically destroying the US government
Permit me an impertinent question (or three).

Suppose a small group of extremely wealthy people sought to systematically destroy the U.S. government by (1) finding and bankrolling new candidates pledged to shrinking and dismembering it; (2) intimidating or bribing many current senators and representatives to block all proposed legislation, prevent the appointment of presidential nominees, eliminate funds to implement and enforce laws, and threaten to default on the nation’s debt; (3) taking over state governments in order to redistrict, gerrymander, require voter IDs, purge voter rolls, and otherwise suppress the votes of the majority in federal elections; (4) running a vast PR campaign designed to convince the American public of certain big lies, such as climate change is a hoax, and (5) buying up the media so the public cannot know the truth.

Would you call this treason?

If not, what would you call it?

And what would you do about it?

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, Manthou - It's nice to see Merry has a career beyond that Stones session.

I looked up the show to see who else was featured and saw Lisa Fischer. She was touring with the Stones a few years back doing the female vocal on Gimme Shelter - A lot of fans say her's is the best version ever.

roger — July 13, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - That's good stuff you're linking to!!!

If McCaig is found guilty of ethics violations, just how far does this go? Is it safe to say Gov Kitzhaber and David Evans & Associates should have also known of the conflict of interest? And does this feed into the WA State audit the Senate wants?

We discussed Andrea leaving The Columbian for Willamette Week before - It's looking more and more like that when she was researching for that article for The C on the bridge height, she turned up a lot of other dirt that Editor Lou just couldn't allow her to put into print. I'm wondering if she has anything more concerning our side of the river - for example, Mayor Leavitt's role. Somewhere between the time that big article was printed and her departure, she had a couple of contributions about him to the All Politics Is Local blog that had a tone of animosity to them. (Of course, she made no attempt to hide her dislike of Madore, so maybe she just doesn't like those who might be called arrogant men.)

roger — July 13, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So people, just received email from Verizon wireless about their privacy rules, assuring me that they don't share except with some of their marketing partners. Option of opting out.

This is so funny it is pathetic, considering how they gave up every call I made to our friendly spy government. Of course, the most interesting thing with my info would be the choice cuss words used to describe our friendly government.

luvithere — July 13, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: When I found out about Sprint's giving me up, I thought I should change providers. Then I realized, they ALL do it. Why bother?

Remember, too: These companies have been given legislated immunity from lawsuits or prosecution by our government, just in case one of us peons gets a little too lawyered up.

I guess Holder recently announced that he is taking steps to protect journalists' phone and internet records better, but not citizens.

roger: Andrea Damewood is stepping up to the plate at WW and exceeding expectations, I am sure. It is good to see a journalist soar when they are given resources and free reign.

manthou — July 13, 2013 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.

"Would you call this treason?"

The Constitution explicitly defines treason and prohibits other definitions.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court"

As usual your liberal rags fail to even comprehend the Constitution. On the other hand many self identified Conservatives also have a hard time comprehending the treason clause.

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

All it posed, was a yes or no question as a prelude to a write.

It wasn't like a...survey or something. Just saying.

But in spite of you cherry picking some headline in an attempt to puff out your chest with delusions of self constitutionally contrived grandeur, you're off the mark fro bro fair weather.

Per usual. you're mixing the words constitution and constipated.

Which of the latter, has never been a problem for you.

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, I call it the state of things. I think he kind of got it there in a paragraph.

luvithere — July 13, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree luvit. If not treason, (which one could make a case for in the abstract) about crimes against humanity? (at least American humanity)

Capitalism run amok.

Ready the Gallows!

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, fear and lies always worked to convince the masses, Nails. If not - circus and bread!

luvithere — July 13, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.

The funny thing is that the worst offender is Obama's buddy Warren buffet, he owned the banks that got bailed out, the insurance companies that got bailed out, and he convinced this and the last administration that it was necessary. By his own admission he would have been broke if the bailouts hadn't happened. The working class of this country was forced to pay to keep the rich liberals rich.

The liberals however would rather ignore Buffet's robbery of the working class and center on boycotting the Koch brothers, and try to put their 50,000 plus family wage employees out of work. Why? because they spend a insignificant portion of their money on conservative politics. In one day recently they single handily bailed out New York Presbyterian hospital, to the tune of $100 million, when they were in danger of going under after post tropical depression Sandy, that is more than they spent on politics over the past ten years. Not to mention the brothers support such causes as gay marriage, marijuana legalization and ending all foreign wars. They personally gave $20 million to the ACLU to fight the Patriot Act.

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty.

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 6:35 p.m

Geeze fro, can't you find anything current to bitch about?

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

An update on the Zimmerman trial says the jury has gone back to the judge for clarification on the charge of manslaughter. That pretty much indicates the burden of proof for Murder 2 hasn't been met.

Under Florida law, one's actions can lead to being guilty of manslaughter - whether actual intent existed isn't necessary. See Chap 7.7 and read 2a, 2b, 2c and explanations - this seems quite subjective, and a convincing argument can be made for all three.

No wonder the defense got so upset over the jury being told they can consider this, when Murder 2 was the only charge initially brought.

roger — July 13, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn - I certainly guessed wrong. I read the Huff Post article, and then read the state law. I was sure they were going that direction.

Well, time for this acquittal to be the main topic of discussion everywhere for the next few days.

roger — July 13, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone who has ever sat on a jury, knows how critical the standard of reasonable doubt is.

kn_dalai — July 13, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the Miami Herald:

"And while some also have questioned the state attorney’s office acceptance of a mostly white jury, a more diverse panel would have returned the same verdict, lawyers who have watched the case believe.

“After seeing the quality of the evidence presented by the state, the diversity of the jury really didn’t matter in the end,” said Larry Handfield, a prominent African American Miami criminal defense lawyer. “But it would have helped the community in giving more credibility to the decision to acquit Zimmerman.”

roger — July 13, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

George Zimmerman history of arrest for felony assault on a police officer, subject of protection order for beating a woman, allegations of raping his own cousin and murder of an unarmed child, was found not guilty this evening. Zimmerman who sports a gang tattoo and has a long history of violent felonious behavior seems to have become the darling of the second amendment crowd because the unarmed child he murdered was slightly darker than Zimmerman himself.

I have two teenaged boys left at home one thirteen and one sixteen both of them dwarf Trayvon Martin, I have to worry every day that some testicularly challenged wannabe will try to make a name for themselves by gunning down my children. This man will single handidly set back gun rights, if a child murderer can get off on self defense because he is afraid of a child the self defense statutes in every state will be repealed and law abiding citizens will no longer be able to defend themselves.

How is that for current?

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You boys who promote and love wearing cannons to pep rally's now bitching and crying about your kids safety.

Gimme a break.


"and he convinced this and the last administration that it was necessary."

Secret Powers!!

My God frobert, blaming one man for all evil. It used to be Soros.

Quit watching Fox and get off your faux Libertarian sites for awhile.

Here's something three years and something or other score old to match hawkeye's spot on observation.

And you couldn't be more wrong. Please research a bit know.


///More Americans think Obama, Not Bush, Enacted Bank Bailouts, Poll Shows///

Nearly half of Americans incorrectly think President Obama started the the bank bailout program, otherwise known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), a new poll shows.

Just 34 percent of Americans surveyed by the Pew Research Center correctly said that TARP was enacted by the Bush administration. Almost half -- 47 percent -- think Mr. Obama started the bank bailout, according to the survey, conducted July 1-5. There was no partisan divide on the issue.

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 13, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.

Overcoming reasonable doubt would have been fairly easy if the prosecution had used some of the most compelling evidence but they chose not to. Trayvon Martin had absolutely no damage to his dominant hand, they should have highlighted this information, they never mentioned it. With no damage to his dominant hand it is obvious that the beating that Zimmerman claimed didn't happen, but Trayvon's dominant hand was otherwise engaged, either trying to keep from getting shot or grabbed by Zimmerman. The prosecution threw this case, not through incompetence like Casey Anthony but by choice.

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 8:10 p.m

"George Zimmerman history of arrest for felony assault on a police officer, subject of protection order for beating a woman, allegations of raping his own cousin and murder of an unarmed child, was found not guilty this evening. Zimmerman who sports a gang tattoo and has a long history of violent felonious behavior seems to have become the darling of the second amendment crowd because the unarmed child he murdered was slightly darker than Zimmerman himself."

And if you knew ANYTHING about the criminal justice system, you would know that NONE of that information would be admissible in this trial since it has NOTHING to do with this trial.

Sucks to be you, huh?

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.

Never been on a jury for a murder trial. Have you.

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.

"Just 34 percent of Americans surveyed by the Pew Research Center correctly said that TARP was enacted by the Bush administration."

First of all I have always blamed both of them, but Senator Obama did vote for it , it was enacted by Congress and signed by Bush, Both are culpable. In by post I did blame both administrations. I never blamed Soros for anything although he spends more on political campaigns and less on humanitarian causes than the Koch brothers. I never watch Fox news(other than the debates), I am offended by their center left big government ideology, neocon's are not conservative and I would rather watch a honest liberal than a false conservative.

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 9:23 p.m.

Yes, I remember that you and a couple of others on here were cheerleading for the rapist, child murdering gang member.

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.

You may be right frobert. I really don’t know. But you don’t know either.

Reminds me of the OJ Simpson trial, where the DA failed to introduce evidence of OJ having a large sum of cash and some sort of disguise in his car when it was finally pulled over. Remember the live helicopter video of that one?

About the “child” thing frobert. As in all things; there is a continuum. (Try introducing that concept into the abortion rights issue). Muhammad Ali, then Cassisus Clay, was 18, when he won the Olympic gold medal in the light heavy weight division. I’m pretty sure that he was whuppin’ on people prior to that, when he was a mere child athlete of seventeen.

Sorry to disagree with you frobert, as you’re one of the few reasonsable minded left on this little forum. But I’m sure you understand. Ahem. I also disagree with you over the financial bailout, as I think the bigger picture was about saving the US economy from utter collapse.

Interestingly, your disdain for the bailout coincides with the Leftists, and in this case sets me apart from everyone else.

kn_dalai — July 13, 2013 at 10:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — July 13, 2013 at 10:11 p.m.

Apparently your memory is as bad as, well, your memory.

It seems to me, I was one of those that said I didn't have all the facts and that I would wait until I did. I still don't have all the facts and if I did, my opinion would still be the same. I really don't care because if I did, it wouldn't make any difference.

hawkeye — July 13, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I never watch Fox news(other than the debates), I am offended by their center left big government ideology, neocon's are not conservative..."

"’re one of the few reasonsable minded left on this little forum."

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 13, 2013 at 10:27 p.m

Well Randall, every once in a while you do display some noteworthy humor. I got a hearty good morning daffy laffy out of your little vid there.

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, this is my idea of what DC should be like. I support these guys 100%.

hawkeye — July 14, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sounds like a great concept, I wish them luck and they're going to need it. What politician wouldn't meet with them? Refusing to show up would signal that person is not willing to work together, something people are fed up with. But when and if their measure gets to the floor, I believe partisanship will, as always, reign supreme. And no major piece of legislation can go anywhere unless the lobbyists get to help write it.

mrd — July 14, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I hate to go against the grain but.....

This sounds like another scam job on the folks who are sincerely seeking a bi-partisan solution to our nation's woes. I wouldn't trust either one of these entrenched right wing ideologue politico's. Party affiliation or not, Baucus is sleazy as they come, and Camp...

Nothing like being a featured speaker at a Glenn Beck rally.

The first link is a very solid interview with Camp & Baucus. This joint (no doubt money making lobbyist effort) picks up at about 3:20.

I kept wanting to give Sen.Baucus a hanky as he slurps his way through the interview. Anyone trust this guy?

We got a Blue Dog Dem leaving office to lobby, and a Glenn Beck wannabe leading this effort.

Sorry guys, ain't buyin' it.

nailingit — July 14, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 8:24 a.m.

Happy you could relate! :)

nailingit — July 14, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Btw, notice the main thrust of this "bi-partisan" effort is to Lower corporate and individual tax rates.

Anyone tell these guys Romney lost? And lost big?

nailingit — July 14, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 14, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

"Anyone tell these guys Romney lost? And lost big?"

I don't think you grasp the concept of "lost big" you might want to look up McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis.

frobert — July 14, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 13, 2013 at 10:18 p.m.

The "bailout" took away the free market consequences for mismanagement. Those that destroyed their companies deserve to be broke. I do not believe that the bailouts helped our economy at all. If the banks that failed had been allowed to fail, debt would have been retired, more money would have flowed into the economy and housing prices would have been reset to a fair market value. The Government would have still been on the hook through FDIC, but the money would have been injected into the economy, not into Buffet, Munger and Picken's pockets. Welfare for the rich irritates me more than welfare for the poor. What we have now is artificially low interest rates, meant to force home prices back up to an unrealistic level, market corrections happen for a reason, we can't and shouldn't stop them.

frobert — July 14, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If the purpose of the TARP money was to keep the wealthy from losing their wealth, then I would agree with you frobert. But I think the financial sector would have been destroyed with dire consequences for all. There was a time frame involved here, in that there would have been a run on the banks. With nothing left to work with, yes; they’d have been gone but there was not nearly enough FDIC reserves to cover those kinds of loses. This is what happened to Washington Mutual, which was only saved by a government brokered deal for Chase to take control of WM. The collapse of Lehman Bros. was allowed to occur precisely over free market ideas, but the results only begot more panic with Bears Stearn’s demise next in line. In any event, the TARP was in the form of a loan or of stock purchases. Last time I looked this up, it was hard to get a handle on the exact status of the repayments, depending on who was doing the talking. But by now most if not all of the money has been recouped by the government, with interest. The exception being Fannie May and Freddie, both government chartered concerns. Also, as far as I’m concerned, the government had plenty of complicity in the problem to start with, and could maybe be expected to be part of the solution. Too big to fail is a problem. If it was known from the start that there would not ever be government help, then investors could act accordingly. But that means government has to but out all the way, and that ain’t going to happen.

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Nailingit - Hawkeye ---

Are you following Ron Goodman at Clark County Citizens for Good Governance [c3g2]? He's talking about the Tuesday BoCC agenda.

Ron Goodman uploaded a file.
Consent item 2 will eliminate the position of Deputy County Administrator; Consent item 3 will eliminate the position of Budget Director. Both incumbents have left or are leaving the county; rather than replace them, their tasks will be added to other positions. If the objective is shrinking and dismantling county government, well then, “Come Watson, come! The game is afoot!"
BOCC Consent Agenda July 16-2013.docx

Steve Foster Here's the roster of positions going downward in the chart from Olsen and Dickman. They are going to pass this work to other positions in the organization. Are you kidding me?

gone Deputy County Administrator Olson, Glenn
gone Director, Budget Dickman, James J
Department Finance Manager Stevens, Robert M
Senior Management Analyst Prata, Adriana
Administrative Services Mgr Jenkins, Marlia K
Program Manager Peterson, Nikki A
Office Assistant Boman, Lisa A
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Steve Foster **Vietnam era quote: "we had to destroy the village (county) to save it"**

langenthal — July 14, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Also, as far as I’m concerned, the government had plenty of complicity in the problem to start with, and could maybe be expected to be part of the solution. Too big to fail is a problem. If it was known from the start that there would not ever be government help, then investors could act accordingly."

this could be the most accurate and concise summary of the events leading to a 5 yr(?) depression I've seen.

If I understand correctly, having the feds back student loans for a degree in basketweaving, or a field with little or no chance of earning enough to justify racking up a hundred thousand dollars of debt for a meaningless, useless, little return on the dollar education is equally stupid. But as soon as the feds assume the liability for that loan, the landscape changes. Money is tossed out and guaranteed by the taxpayers and the bank employees approving those loans look for ability to re-pay based on what? With bankruptcy not an option in most cases (per Shrub II's Congress, I think) even that doesn't make these loans more secure. It allows a judgment, may even provide for one, but essentially secures and guarantees the loan. It ain't got chit to do with providing higher education. It's all about guaranteeing investors' money. Total BS, in my opinion.

mrd — July 14, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — July 14, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.

A few hundred years ago when I went to college, I needed a student loan to get by. The loan was to be repaid by one of two ways. Either I get a job in my chosen profession after getting a degree or I pay it back in "easy monthly payments". Well, this is how it went. I didn't get my degree, only 4 hours short but they wouldn't allow me any more money and I couldn't afford it on my own. I couldn't get a job in my "chosen profession" because I didn't get my degree AND something called "affirmative action" made it impossible for a white male to get a job in the public sector. Now comes the payback. I couldn't afford the payments so I just kind of ignored them for a while. All of a sudden I started getting very threatening phone calls from Texas telling me to pay up or I'd be sued, taken to court and jailed. They wanted me to do things like sell my car, ask my parents for the money or get another job. I sent them what I could but the costs kept going up. They kept adding more interest, I think I ended up paying double. The fun thing about the whole ordeal was, the company that was harassing me was owned by Ross Perot. Now I know how he got his money.

hawkeye — July 14, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk-you know the drill. The "investors" are gonna make their money.

I too, had student loans way back when, but I don't remember how it worked. I do remember getting hounded for a coupla years over a damn parking ticket that I never paid that was attached to my U-bill, as we called it. Never did figure that one out.

As with everything, we must be subservient to the rich folks , after all, without them, we're nothing. The Walton family may "create" the minimum wage, part-time jobs with no benefits causing the rest of us to chip in $6500/yr to subsidize each of their employees to the federal poverty level, and we'd never expect the Walton clan to dip into their billions to provide for their employees. That financial responsibility belongs to us, the taxpayer. As with the financial industry, privatize the profits, socialize the losses, but keep the "job creators" happy, very happy. 'Merika Inc.-ain't it great?

mrd — July 14, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 14, 2013 at 8 p.m

When I went to a State University many years ago, I worked and was able with some hardship to pay my tuition, and finish without debt. Twenty years later my wife got her degree and we had years of debt to pay off.

frobert — July 14, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Holy moly!

Who will be left to turn out the lights?

I am so tired of bird-dogging these guys.

Let's give all the work to Don Benton. He can do it all.

Don't forget Kevin Gray. Bill Barron. Bronson Potter. Add those three to your list.

They have blocked my email, I think or it goes directly to the spam folder and trash.

manthou — July 14, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Come now. “Taken to jail”. Seems to be reminiscent of 18th century English debtor’s prison.

And what’s going on with this anti-affirmative action attitude you’ve got. This is most curious. Definitely not aligned with the paper and pencil thinking Leftists.

Finally, I’d be most grateful, if you might explain, why a graduate of Benson, a proud graduate, would need to go to college. Something about that I’m just not getting. You missed by four hours? After all of the hardcore study you did, and forgoing all those parties. Man, you’ve really been screwed over.

So what’s up with that affirmative action thing?

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 9:04 p.m

Well, Benson didn't teach "Police Sciences" and back then I thought I wanted to be a cop. I applied to several departments, it was always the same answer. Of course they couldn't say it "officially" but a Sargent at PPD pulled me aside and told me flat out that I was the wrong color and or sex to get a job there. Little did I know at the time they were doing me a favor. I mean really, who would want to be a cop now?

When I applied for my "career" job, they hired me on the spot because of my Benson training.

BTW, I don't think I got screwed over by anybody. I don't think anybody does. People choose their paths.

hawkeye — July 14, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 14, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.

As far as "taken to jail" goes, back then before there were laws against it, those recovery companies were allowed to say anything they wanted to get you to pay up. They could call you anytime, day or night and harass you as much as they wanted. Not so much anymore.

hawkeye — July 14, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — July 14, 2013 at 6:34 p.m.

manthou — July 14, 2013 at 8:55 p.m

They want government so small they can drown it in Benton's bathtub.

And every time I read about the Three Husketeers I feel like a shower.

Clarkistan Conservatism. Pariah's.

Conservateurs ruinent notre pays!

nailingit — July 14, 2013 at 11:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody see the article on the parks? Typical Madore, eyes wide shut. If he can't see the problems, they don't exist.

hawkeye — July 15, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dave's got his head stuck in a few places for sure and he's not going to pull it out. He needs a Baggeroscopy.


We are a forgotten bunch.

If The Basement is moving back in time...

...expect an influx of Conservatives.

Then there goes the neighborhood.

nailingit — July 15, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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