Open forum, July 22-28



The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your ID or register for an account at

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor John Hill --



Here's a an opening greeting to the start of a new week to all the forum folks whose freedom of expression should never be taken for granted!!!

goldenoldie — July 22, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

say what?? "a an"??? I swear that extra "a" wasn't in there when I clicked "post comment." Oh well, the message is still there!


"""goldie: I dunno. You and I both share a skepticism for media.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

There is responsible press and irresponsible press. Many people forget the difference or simply do not care anymore.

manthou — July 20, 2013 at 2:25 p.m."""

I absolutely agree...great point you shared!!! Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves...all present company included...8))

goldenoldie — July 22, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Any opinions on whether the individual mandate for health insurance should be deferred to 2015 like the business one was? My own viewpoint is that the Administration supported the business deferral to force more people to buy into the state health care exchanges, which is a major cornerstone which will determine the success of the program.

roger — July 22, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Personally, I need it to kick in in 2014, as I will be on the last legs of my COBRA 18 month health insurance. I calculated my early retirement with 2014 in mind. I am not eligible for Medicare and was looking forward to some affordable options while I wait for that to kick in.

WA State is ready to rock and roll with its insurance exchanges, unlike some states, and so am I.

So, my thoughts on extending the individual mandate one more year will be biased in favor of "hell, no." :)

manthou — July 22, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We women (oh,so smart, I should humbly add) are abandoning newspapers faster than rats on the Titanic.

Should this medium find some way to entice us back? What tricks could be used?

I am amused:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 22, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good article, and right on...

Ok, with the exception of the Sunday NYT. Finally gave up running to Starbucks, and now it's delivered...

jacjak — July 22, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Newspaper Demographics

[link text][1]


kn_dalai — July 22, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stories like this give hope for the future! One smart pro-active 14 yr old girl and a Dad to match.

///Awesome dad defends awesome daughter’s message to Texas lawmakers///

Billy Cain thinks everyone needs to calm down about his daughter's quippy rebuttal to Texas' new anti-abortion law VIDEO

A 14-year-old Texan stirred a considerable amount of controversy last week with a quippy sign protesting the state’s sweeping new abortion restrictions. Tuesday Cain’s message, written on brilliant pink poster board, read: “Jesus isn’t a dick, so keep him out of my vagina.”

Soon after, an image of Tuesday and her advice to Texas lawmakers started making the rounds on Twitter, and reproductive rights opponents (and jerks on social media) wasted no time in losing their damn minds over it.

On Monday, Tuesday’s father, Billy, came to his daughter’s defense, writing for the Guardian that he was proud of Tuesday’s willingness to stand up for her convictions — and her basic human rights — by coming out to protest the law (with some serious flair):

As parents, we believe that children should be taught continually, instead of just at school. My daughter and I have been to city council meetings to watch and discuss how politics gets done in the city. We have taken our children to the Capitol repeatedly because it is important for them to understand how politics affects them personally. When Sen. Wendy Davis was stopped from filibustering, I woke my daughter up so that she could watch the proceedings on the internet. We stayed up until 3.30am watching more coverage and researched the issues together. I explained as best I could what the bill itself would mean to women in the state of Texas, as well as how it would influence politics throughout the United States if it were passed. When my wife and I decided to go to the Capitol, we welcomed her to come along…


"I’m a 14-year-old girl who has lived in Austin, Texas, my whole life. I like art, music and talking on the phone with my friends. When I grow up, I’d like to become a science teacher. I also believe in the right to choose and the separation of church and state. Or to put it another way — to put it the way I wrote it when I was protesting at the Capitol last week…

I came up with [the sign] last week when my friend and I were trying to think of ideas for what would get people’s attention to protest the scary restrictions that are happening in my state trying to take away a woman’s right to safe and accessible abortions.

It worked.

TRead more @

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 1:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

do we focus on the minutia, like street closures and (to the editorial staff of this paper)who's trying to do what at the most-basic level...county commissioners....?

don't we have an attempt to divert our attention from the really important stuff to the media-chosen stuff?

"REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF" includes the frontal-attack on the constitution. it includes the bare-faced attack on our 4th amendment rights. it includes the making of the largest single database intrusion on our privacy; obamacare. it includes the open attack on the constitutional limits of presidential power which makes trivial the congress and state's rights.

"MEDIA-CHOSEN STUFF": "M&M;". the out-of-power bitching of the dem-preferred elite. the significance of the CRC defeat.

it seems to me that the most important issue we face is the frontal attack on the constitution.

CRC et al, while vitally important to us LOCALLY, pales in comparison to the WH's intention to set up a facist, BIG BROTHER regime that voids the constitution.

DeeLittle — July 23, 2013 at 1:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle: I recommend taking a look at what the ACLU is doing, both nationally and regionally, to address your concerns.

This legal watchdog group is powerful, influential, and pushes back on behalf of citizens who do not have the financial means to take on government overreach themselves.

For example, the ACLU is tackling the license plate surveillance as well as the NSA surveillance of innocent citizens. It is not simply a "liberal" legal advocacy group.

Just like defense lawyers: we hate 'em until we need 'em.

We need to support the work of the ACLU if we are going to get the attention of Constitutional abusers.

ALCU National: [link text][1]

ACLU Washington state:


manthou — July 23, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 1:42 am: In the same vein as this brave young Texan, my favorite line (forgot who wrote it originally, but it was NOT me):

"If I wanted a Republican in my sex life, I would seduce one."

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

An article in The Oregonian worth reading. It seems the Pres of Gramor is concerned about the possibility of the Tesoro oil handling operation at the Port.

Equally relevant is the historical perspective presented by someone using the handle Chieftain in the comments below. If this person is accurate, the Port's plans for the expanded railhead preceded the actions of ex-Mayor Pollard at the Boise site that led to the Waterfront project.

For whatever it's worth - This project (to build a mini-city) has the potential to be a big loser.

roger — July 23, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 10:16 am: Interesting article. How did The Columbian miss the significance of Barry Cain's comments?

"Chieftan" is most certainly former blogger Bob Koski, as the fez and sunglasses were a favored avatar of his as was "Chief" as a moniker. Lou B was able to "encourage" him to shut down his blog operations with legal threats. I used to read his blog regularly because he was well-informed, as you mention. I did not always agree with him, but I enjoyed his curmudgeonly voice. I asked about him recently on here and it is good to see him still exercising his First Amendment rights.

Barry Cain knows that he will have trouble leasing to businesses if they are worried about being vaporized (as some of the Quebec victims were)in an explosion. This could put a huge damper on the Waterfront project, for sure.

Pet peeve: I am listening to the BOCC meeting right now and I am so amazed, after listening to public testimony over the past few years, the number of citizens who mispronounce our state's name: "Worshington". Drives me nutz. Midwesterners do that, but they don't know any better because they live so far away. "I'm gonna worsh the clothes before I visit Worshington." Just crabbing about it. Blame Koski's influence. :)

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Worth a read..

///Rush and O’Reilly: Race hustlers, Inc.///

-Limbaugh, Hannity, Bill-O and other right-wing white-grievance mongers are stoking racial tension for cash-

An unusually crazed, agitated O’Reilly declared that the plight of black America “has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents… Race hustlers and the grievance industry,” he went on, “have intimidated the so-called ‘conversation,’ turning any valid criticism of African-American culture into charges of racial bias,” leaving African-Americans to “fend for themselves in violent neighborhoods.” I can’t wait to hear the ignorant O’Reilly generalize more about “African American culture.”

But I agree with O’Reilly about “race hustlers and the grievance industry” being the problem here – only we define them differently. Bill-O himself is a consummate race hustler and grievance peddler, pushing the drug of racial grievance to white people, making himself rich by worsening racial tension. He’s second only to Rush Limbaugh in terms of spewing ignorance to a vast, frightened audience.


Every once in a while, though, it’s important to pay attention to what the braying bullies say, because they have large audiences and when they turn on a dime to one topic, you know you’re getting a view of the right-wing id. And since they offer a guide to the right-wing id as well as to getting rich, when they convene on a new narrative, others always follow.


This is the new right wing racket. Well, it’s not entirely new – race baiting is an old racket on the right – but the extent to which conservatives are now comfortable telling white people they’re the new victims, in danger of being unfairly prosecuted like George Zimmerman when they should actually be thanked for ending slavery, is unique and brazen and dangerous. We need more Republicans, as well as more media figures, to call it what it is: a race hustle.

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm also guilty of Warshington. But I'm quick to point out Norfolk is pronounced Nawfuk. And I've never figured out how crayon is pronounced - I grew up saying craan.

roger — July 23, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 11:11 a.m.

roger — July 23, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. (

In the spirit of reality based curmudgeoness, when people pronounce Nevada-Nevahda, it's a little irritating. :)

With a word like Washington, maybe it's more about dialect.

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger and Manthou,Barry Cain and Gramor Development had to know of these plans by the Port.Them along with Pollard have all been tight with the Port officals for years.I have a hard time believing that they weren't kept in the loop on this.Also why are the Long Shoremen against this.It would seem to me to mean more jobs for them.I must be missing something here.

timerick — July 23, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

While we're on it, Louisville, for those of us who spent time there, is Loowavul. Toronto is Tronno. And, in Chicago, a living room is called the frunchroom (front room).

And my East Coast friends say,"You live next to Orygone."

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: My husband was asking about the Longshoreman, too, and the oil at the Port. I guessed this: maybe this transfer station will require skilled labor to be brought in, it is so technical. No jobs for locals?

Gramor and investors had their sights on the Waterfront property ten years ago when we moved here. I don't think this oil transfer station was in the works when the land was purchased and planned for.

With the loss of the CRC and the threat of dusty coal trains and volatile petroleum products, the type of renters and buyers Gramor needs will be turned off.

Vancouver is Vancouver: if someone has plans to turn it into a destination resort town, they will run into roadblocks.

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Have you been able to figure out what plan your going to get on in Washingtons Ins Exchange? Do you know what the cost is going to be and what the coverages are? That will be interesting as I haven't been able to find Washingtons outlined plan options as yet.


vanwadreamer — July 23, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 23, 2013 at 1:32 p.m.

I find this whole thing really interesting. Is this going to be a predominantly industrial port or some replica of the P-town cityscape? You can't have it both ways, I don't think there is enough room for both. Seems like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and the port hand is flipping off the starboard hand. I guess it all depends on which hand has the money in it for the time being.

hawkeye — July 23, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That's kind of my thought also Hawkeye.I just can't get past the idea that these developers and the city didn't know what the railroad tracks were for.Did they think that the trains would just disappear?They had to have seen the long range forecast for the port.

timerick — July 23, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This whole Port and oil thing makes me wonder if the developers were looking for a way out of the project?Do any of you think that they saw there might not have the money to be made on this project.This could be a very easy and less expensive way out for the City and the developers.

timerick — July 23, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One more!

///New Hampshire Medical Marijuana Bill Signed Into Law///

New Hampshire Gov. Maggie Hassan (D) signed a bill on Tuesday making New Hampshire the 19th state -- and the final in New England -- to legalize medical marijuana.

The new law, which received final approval from state lawmakers in June, establishes a process to set up alternative treatment centers, which will dispense marijuana for qualified patients with "chronic or terminal diseases" or "debilitating medical conditions."

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The latest news about the House. You get what you vote for. I doubt many knew just how ridiculous it would get.

///Today in ‘John Boehner’s Life Is a Living Hell’///

[The political premise of my magazine story about the Republican Congress is that the Tea Party wave of 2010 is not actually receding. Republican leaders have managed to deflect the bug-eyed rage to adopt extreme tactics against President Obama, but this has caused the rage not to dissipate but to build up in frustration against the party leadership. It’s popping out in all sorts of ways now.]

Senator Mike Lee says Republicans must shut down the federal government and refuse to open it unless President Obama defunds his own health care reform law. That sounds completely insane, but (as I note in my story) Marco Rubio has endorsed the same position. According to Lee, “a corresponding effort is starting to be kicked off in the House.”

Meanwhile, conservative Republicans want to hold the debt ceiling hostage when it comes up again next fall. Not only that, they suspect their fellow Republicans lack the stomach to really hold a gun to the head of the world economy and pull the trigger, so they are maneuvering to prevent them from making any deal. Pat Toomey now says he doesn't trust Paul Ryan — Paul Ryan! — not to sell out the party by agreeing to lift the debt ceiling:

{Harry Reid is going to have to deal with Republican conferees in the House,” Scarborough said. “You certainly trust Paul Ryan, don’t you, to do the right thing?”

“Earlier this year, it was Republicans in the House that suspended the debt ceiling concept altogether for a period of time.” Toomey replied. “They said, ‘Let’s just the pretend there’s no debt ceiling and allow the government to just keep borrowing.' I disagreed with that decision."}

Meanwhile, Steve Stockman is circulating a discharge petition in the House to force John Boehner to create a select committee to investigate Benghazi. Boehner has favored handling Benghazi, which is more of a conspiracy theory than an actual investigation, through numerous committees, muffling its impact while lending the investigations a sheen of normality. Conservatives want a single, select committee, no doubt run by the truest-believing conservatives, to run the hearings in the most high profile way, and in keeping with the base's certainty of the administration's guilt:

The factual collapse of the Obama scandals has placed Boehner in a worse position. He can no longer throw his party foursquare behind scandalmongering without the national press corps, which initially hyped the “Obama scandals,” potentially heaping ridicule on the Republicans for chasing ghosts. Yet in the minds of most conservatives, the Obama scandals remain as sinister as ever.

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Stockman’s petition has zero chance of passing. 160 Republicans have already endorsed the select committee, and even if all them signed, which they won’t, it would fall well short of the 218 signatures needed. But the petition is not designed to pass. It’s designed to raise the profile of the demand, and more broadly, to ratchet up the pressure on the Republican leaders to placate their angry maximalists.

The ultra-conservatives won’t get their way on the select committee. They probably won’t get their way on shutting down the government on Obamacare, though the possibility is getting less inconceivable all the time. What they are certainly winning is the creation of a narrative, in which the feckless Boehner keeps collaborating with Obama rather than stand for true conservatism.

Every time this happens, the next betrayal gets trickier. The fall will bring a quick succession of events — a possible government shutdown and a debt ceiling fight — merely to avoid calamity. If Boehner gets through those events, plus stiffing conservatives on the Benghazi investigation, he’ll be facing a potential open rebellion even before he tries to cut some kind of deal on immigration. If Boehner holds on to his job through the next election I’ll be surprised and impressed. The walls are closing in on him.

nailingit — July 23, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*That will be interesting as I haven't been able to find Washingtons outlined plan options as yet.
vanwadreamer — July 23, 2013 at 2:30 p.m*


last time i checked, WA hasn't approved any exchanges yet.

DeeLittle — July 23, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The outrage over the Port Commisioner’s decision is predictable. But what are the alternatives?

Hydroelectric damns are being breached. Nuclear is a cuss word. Wind and solar are nice but generate a pittance of what is needed and are unreliable. Not to mention the vandalism of wind turbines by those who are offended by their unsightliness.

Electric cars? Car batteries need to be recharged and the electricity is going to come from just where? What about the nasty chemicals in those batteries.

There’s a guy on FB, who’s claiming that the “coal exports” and “this expansion of oil supply” will result in the “end of civilization”. Say’s he’s a science teacher.

I don’t like fission nuclear either, and look forward to the day of energy production through nuclear fusion or better yet some energy production that doesn’t rely on a power grid. Some weird thing like zero point energy from the quantum flux. Until then, the detractors really need to present their alternative. Some of these guys go all around the country trying to shut down everything. But present no alternative.

So when you come home at night and turn on the light switch and nothing happens – then what?

kn_dalai — July 23, 2013 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou ---

from US News and World Report: 10 Good Things About Obamacare
I scheduled my "death panel" and Introduction to Medicare appointment recently. There is no cost to me as a Medicare recipient. That's right, I'm on the dole! I had good insurance when I became eligible for Medicare and then I worked a few years past eligibility age. I've been retired for years and didn't have any health issues [cholesterol maybe] and didn't have a doctor but I wanted to get Physician Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatment[POLST]completed to be in my record and for my family to have copies.

I want to be careful about using the word "free" but it is a relief to not be charged for some important services. It would be nice if dental care were available. I started paying into Social Security 56 years ago and Medicare from the beginning.

langenthal — July 23, 2013 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So when you come home at night and turn on the light switch and nothing happens – then what?

kn_dalai — July 23, 2013 at 10:44 p.m.

Light a candle.


Right Wingnut thinking has turned your brain into mush.

So much for self-reliance.




In all seriousness, (whatever that is) energy usage/sustainability is a good discussion to be had.

It's unfortunate many of the ones who can actively/intelligently research and develop viable fuel alternatives, some of America's most brilliant minds, are held hostage to austerity like budget cuts, to include Sequestration.

So when a good part of our population believes man doesn't contribute to global warming, rape doesn't cause pregnancy, the Earth is 9,000 years old, teaching evolution is heresy, etc., ...and the ones who have a brain stay silent...

...who's more at fault?

Some of us grow weary of scolding right wingers who won't speak out against the tried & true idiots of your party. This backward anti-science mindset ain't happening on the left.

For our futures sake, quit voting these idiots into office, and speak up to your party's knuckledraggers.

If not anywhere else, at least to some of your thoughtless comrades on Face Book.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 1:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now Nails, you have to get your non-scientific facts straight! For these people, the earth is NOT 9000 years old, it is 6000 years. Goodness! Don't make it so old.
after all, we roamed with dinosaurs!

I am just having a hard time understanding such non - scientific thinking. It's so ludicrous it's nearly funny if the consequences of denial were not so bad.

luvithere — July 24, 2013 at 4:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That oil from the Bakken fields is going to market, one way or another. Even Pres Obama is now pushing to get Keystone XL moving. The environmentalist argument - while perhaps valid - is pretty much a lost cause. A perspective is that we might be better off having it processed here in the US, due to our stricter emission controls. The safety issue is an entirely different matter - One that needs a great deal more in the way of answers beside a "promise" to use double hulled tankers and rail cars.

One thing I haven't run across is the kind of oil currently processed at the West Coast refineries, and the kind that the rail cars from Bakken would transport through Vancouver. Sweet crude, the type lowest in sulfur content, is plentiful in Bakken. The Tesoro Anacortes refinery apparently gets oil from Alaska, Canada and many other sources. If this Port of Vancouver operation allows them to reduce the amount of sour crude processed - Well, it just might benefit us at the pump.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Talk about having your head up your arse! Arizona wants to start charging people that "feed" the grid an extra $100 for their contribution.

hawkeye — July 24, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: The health insurance exchanges.

Another issue I have with the ACA is how they got away from the national system and went to the state level exchanges. This reduces the pool to be insured, and provides greater opportunity for local factors to affect cost. Personally, I can't see how they'll be able to provide this at a low cost in WA State.

Consider the large military retiree population, especially around the Puget Sound bases. Those using TRICARE or the VA system are considered to already have qualifying plans - That's a whole lot of people who won't be buying into the state run exchange. Federal and State employees, and large corporations like Boeing, already have insurance plans that are fairly easy (relatively speaking) on the pocketbook of the employee - I can't see a movement to the State run exchange there either. I'm not sure we have enough of a population to get the numbers needed to realize lower rates.

Also consider that our State has committed to providing higher quality care under the Medicaid program. Isn't this contracted through Regence Blue Cross/Shield? You can bet that company is making up the lower payments by adding elsewhere.

Beating a dead horse, but the ACA planners (Congress and Pres Obama) gave up the ship when they departed from the single-payer proposal early in the game. The current plan is going to cost more, while medicine and insurance will profit.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Light a candle. -- nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 1:14 a.m

Oh! Look! It’s another witticism by nailingit. I guess you could call that a nailingit witticism or a nailingit wit for short. But then for those of us who hold nailingit in such high esteem, a term of endearment seems in order; nailingit is just too formal. Too long. How ‘bout “n-it” for short. Or nit for short short. OK. Then putting all of this together leads to: nitwit?



From here on out, one can kndly think of a nailingit witticism as: a nitwit.

kn_dalai — July 24, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 24, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. Agree.
Beating a dead horse, but the ACA planners (Congress and Pres Obama) gave up the ship when they departed from the single-payer proposal early in the game.
Washington working on unique health care exchange
Read more here:

Most people — 78 percent — “are not going to see an impact” as a result of health care reform, said Stephanie Marquis, a spokeswoman for the Office of the Insurance Commissioner. That is because millions are already covered by large business plans that will continue, by federal programs such as Medicare and Veterans Affairs programs, by Tricare for uniformed military personnel, or through the state-federal Medicaid program that caters to the disabled and poor.
“Many people will see rates similar to what they’re paying now, or in some cases, lower — and with substantially better benefits,” Commissioner Mike Kreidler’s staffers wrote. And that is before federal subsidies that will defray a share of premiums for some consumers, such as individuals earning less than $45,960 a year and families of four making up to $94,200.
How much an individual pays will depend on the choice of coverage level, the person’s age, and whether the person smokes, Marquis said.
Washington Health Benefit Exchange with link to Washington
Healthplanfinder [Washington Healthplanfinder will begin enrolling consumers on October 1, 2013, for health coverage that begins on January 1, 2014.]

langenthal — July 24, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Light a candle. -- nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 1:14 a.m

kn_dalai — July 24, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.

You could also use a battery powered lantern or a flashlight.

If it happens in multiple locations, give your breaker a check.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Now Nails, you have to get your non-scientific facts straight! For these people, the earth is NOT 9000 years old, it is 6000 years. Goodness! Don't make it so old.
after all, we roamed with dinosaurs!"

luvithere — July 24, 2013 at 4:41 a.m.

Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) who (lucky for us) is a member of the House Science Committee disagrees....

"God's word is true. I've come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell," said Broun, a member of the House Science Committee. He believed, he said, that the Earth is only 9,000 years old, and that the Bible is the “the manufacturer’s handbook" which "teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in our society.”

luvit- I guess it depends on what state you're from. I think in Texas the schoolbooks say 6,000. :))

It appears we are now roaming with dinosaurs of a different kind.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good day Candidate ( )

As you may be aware the City Council elected to zone medicinal
cannabis collective gardens. I'm curious what _your_ position is in the matter.

( )

I've emailed this query to three City Council candidates (not incumbents). Yesterday I sent it to Smith and Doan. This morning to Topper.

Smith got back to me and we had a conversation on the topic. He admitted he was ignorant in the matter and stated he would do some studying on it. Frankly, the manner of the responses is more important to me then stance. Smith gets a gold star.

Doan hasn't replied. It's too early to expect anything from from Topper - yet. No response gets a black mark.

I'll drop a line to the rest of them over the next couple of days. Yes, I'm having a bit of fun with this election. Heh.

Drift — July 24, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn_dalai-People who know little are usually great talkers, while men who know much say little..Point well taken...

Langethal- Thanks for the link... So in my families case for me and my spouse the Silver plan would be 35% more than our current plan and only a 70/30 payout. The Gold plan is 80/20 and that would be 1458 a month for us... WOWSI... I truly believe that of the 40million currently uninsured in the US I doubt we'll get allott of takers in order to offest and lower actual costs... I think Krieder has done many good things..

vanwadreamer — July 24, 2013 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bingaaazi step aside! The latest from our RW conspiracy theorists. As usual, it's all about a $.

I'm sure Hannity will fire up the faithfuls.

///House Republicans Fight Obama's 'War On Ceiling Fans'///

Now, ceiling fans are generating national attention, including a segment Monday on NPR, as the new light bulb. Blackburn herself drew the comparison in a House floor speech earlier this month.

"We've already seen the federal government stretch their regulatory tentacles into our homes and determine what kind of light bulbs we have to use," Blackburn said. "Now they’re coming after our ceiling fans. It is a sad state of affairs when even our ceiling fans aren't safe from this administration."

The House-passed appropriations bill, which slashes the renewable energy budget in half, faces a veto threat from the White House. It's also a non-starter in the Senate, where energy efficiency is a relatively bipartisan issue.

Some members of the ceiling fan industry are speaking out in favor of the regulations, including at least one company that says it supported standards in the first place.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

We have four fans. This shack has an open ceiling with a loft overlooking the living room. The two fans in the living room get turned off only for cleaning. Hmm, maybe three times in 14 years ;^)

The one over our bed is only used in the summer months (we've no cooling system). The last on the list is in the mud/hobby room. It's seldom used. Usually only when I burn something on the stove or the slop sink in the laundry room overflows. Both the kitchen and laundry are adjacent to the mud/hobby.

I've a standing fan aimed at the chair I'm currently sitting in up here in the loft. I use it on summer nights after a cool shower, having left my long flowing locks wet. Heh.

I'm a real fan kind of guy. I like leaving the windows and back door open, too. Even in the winter with the woodstove roaring. Yeah, I think I got me a bit of that claustrophobia going.

Drift — July 24, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — July 24, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.

Enjoy em' while you can. Obummer's tentacles are gonna grab them!!

I've only got one, but I'm really screwed.

Mine has light bulbs attached.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 9:26 am: On the link you shared (thank you), I calculated my estimated benefit costs with the WA State Insurance Exchange.

My spouse is still working (self-employed) and our combined household income does not qualify for a government subsidy.

My estimated monthly costs for me alone is $850. My spouse is on Medicare. That is about $200 more than I am paying for Kaiser on COBRA now for me alone.

If I qualified for a government subsidy, the cost would be only $317. Cheapest insurance rates I have ever seen.

So, the ACA seems fair enough in that those with less income can get some good deals. Those who work and pull down a decent salary and self-employed (like my household) will still have to cough up some substantial money for health insurance.

The calculator on that website is easy and informative.

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see that Dr. Melnick and Marni Storey are going to absorb John Wiesman's job duties between the two of them, without any raises.

They had to do this to save their own jobs, I believe. Both are doing stellar work at the Public Health Department and I am relieved to know that some crony of Mielke's is not headed for John Wiesman's former job.

The work of three will now be done with two. And Dr. Melnick works for other counties. Money-saver, for sure, but a recipe for errors and burn out?

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Watch this short video to see what the Vancouver Waterfront Project will look like:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 24, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- I pay approx $330 per month for Medicare, drug plan [Humana], medigap [Regence Blue Cross/Blue Shield].

langenthal — July 24, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 12:47 p.m

Thanks, that was...... white! Interesting, I saw trains on raised platforms going thru the area. Wonder how that's going to work.

langenthal — July 24, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.

Have you looked at United Healthcare? My in-laws used them and got really good rates.

hawkeye — July 24, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: When I saw those trains in the Waterfront video, I KNEW they would garner a lot of attention. Wishful thinking, I guess.

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — July 23, 2013 at 11:49 a.m.

Have you forgotten what is in Portland at the terminals??? You do know there's multiple storage tanks, multiple companies storing the very same cargo as will be brought to the Port of Vancouver. Yeah, I'll be honest. I'm not crazy about it...but in this competitive world, the POV wants a cut of the pie, too. Besides, in transport of these shipments, anywhere along any of the rail lines, there's the potential of "issues." Remember the WHITE TRAINS??? You're worried about oil...I'm more worried about nuclear and toxic chemicals being transported, holyc.

goldenoldie — July 24, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 2:55 p.m

BNSF needs to be looking at constructing a 2 mile tunnel coming into Vancouver. Three tracks wide to the East.

hawkeye — July 24, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"""So when you come home at night and turn on the light switch and nothing happens – then what?

kn_dalai — July 23, 2013 at 10:44 p.m.

Light a candle.


Right Wingnut thinking has turned your brain into mush.

So much for self-reliance."""

You'd best choose soy-based or beeswax candles for self reliant emergency lighting. Most candles are made from parafin wax, a petroleum-based product. much for trying to be witty!

goldenoldie — July 24, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I tried to pull up that web site and all I got was a snow white video.But I think I got the jest of what you are saying.I live not to far from the tracks now and we hear trains all day and into the night.I have gotten used to the noise and it is no bother now.But I would not want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and have trains going 3 or 4 blocks from my patio over looking the beautiful Hayden Island Mall.Just saying.

timerick — July 24, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye --- I'll check that out during Open Season in November. However,I don't have any complaints with Regence.

langenthal — July 24, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Whoever watched Obama's speech can relate. Some solid, but unfortunate takeaways.

///Obama: It’s Not My Fault Republicans Are Crazy///

By Jonathan Chait

President Obama’s economic speech today is putatively a broad-stroke overview of his economic vision — investing in physical infrastructure and early childhood education, restraining runaway inflation in the cost of health care and college, and marginally shifting the burden of government away from the middle class and toward the rich. In reality, it is a call for a responsible opposition.

Thematically, it is hard to build a speech around the opposition when you’re president, because people expect the president to lead and set the agenda. But the extraordinary tactics of the House Republicans have created an unusual and counterintuitive situation wherein the president’s agenda is mostly irrelevant. Conservatives simply refuse to negotiate with Obama in conventional terms. Their strategy is to threaten a series of crises — government shutdown, defaulting on the debt — in order to force the president to offer unilateral concessions.

Ideology certainly provides some of the backdrop for the showdown, as Obama conceded. The two parties disagree not only on the proper size of government but also its basic functions. House Republicans recently voted to reduce funding for the Advanced Research Projects Agency, a Department of Energy program that has produced all sorts of cutting edge scientific developments, and the epitome of the sort of government investment Obama wants to increase. This happened just after House Republicans voted to increase (and lock in) ludicrous farm subsidies, a program Obama has urged them to cut.

Read more @

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - The way I understand it we can't get BNSF to move the swing span on their bridge. Something says getting them to build that tunnel will be an even harder problem.

Oh - I liked the nice pretty passenger train in the video. Why not a coal train??? I believe Amtrak has one east/west run per day, while there's quite a few freight trains.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.

I dig the vid! At first I thought it was a homage to Mormon Temples with everything being white & all.

Was that a Mono-Rail System? Cool!

I'm afraid there are too many local Eeyores and tightwads to support a "vibrant new community".

But if this vision is realized, at least it'll give them something to point fingers at and complain about.

It smells too much like .. progress.

nailingit — July 24, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I like my ceiling fans too - I've put seven in. And all seven together cost me about half what one of Mr. Big Ass Fans cheaper models costs.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The prettiest thing in that video was our old I5 bridge in the background - Almost made me want to sign up for an eastern end apartment. One with a patio so I could sit outside watching everything happen.

Then I remembered how cold it gets when those Gorge winds are blowing. And the fact that it often rains much of the year. And I suppose the building will have rules saying I can't fire my little hibachi up to do some BBQing. I'm curious about why all those people were just standing around out there doing not much of anything. Maybe they were supposed to represent our panhandler population? And what's that rumbling - A train, a plane, or is it the Big One, coming to wash the whole area away???

But really, I suppose they could build something nice there. But understand that it's being planned with 30:1 private:public dollars. For a project this size, that public dollar share will be a hefty chunk of money - used to help a few developers and their investors to make money. I'm quite skeptical that anyone will want to be there when they see the Port and its plants to the west, the railroad tracks to the north and the west, and the PDX flights passing overhead. And Gramor has yet to produce a single business tenant who plans on moving there once it's built. I'm a bit cynical of any money making scheme Vancouver City Council comes up with - they've yet to have something pan out. They're just way too reminiscent of small town hayseeds being taking advantage of by some big city hucksters.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Keep Manhattan just give me that countryside.

roger — July 24, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: They are supposed to be building affordable "senior" housing for the 55 plus crowd at the Waterfront first, before the condos.

When I read that Barry Cain declared that this project's success was NOT dependent on the life or death of the CRC, I saw it for what it was: whistling in the graveyard so that potential tenants and buyers would not be discouraged from signing on.

His testimony against the oil transfer station at the Port of Vancouver was another sign, to me, that he is worried.

I'd love to see it happen (that was me driving that boat toward shore :)), but it may be difficult to convince the private investors to stay in.

I get a kick out of it when big-moneyed folk try to re-invent a city to match THEIR tastes and lifestyles. We saw it in the 80's with the stucco McMansions that cropped up like weeds in Clackamas County to suit the tastes of the onslaught of SoCal.

Vancouver is charming for its small-town feel, just minutes away from Hipster Heaven.

manthou — July 24, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou you are a woman after my own heart.I love our small town feel.I was born and raised here in Vancouver.My father owned the Sanitary Fish Market on 8th st. in the 50s.My mother taught school here in the 50s until she retired in 1977.All of the kids in our age group started work when we were 12 either in the berry fields or the lettuce fields. I choose the lettuce fields.In the 50s we would walk the town with our father and he would know everyone.Than in the 60s came the malls.Vancouver lost its downtown.I went to work in the same shop where I am now in 1966.Took 3 years off for the Army and came back and bought the place in 1978.Have been there ever since.I love Vancouver and I think it can be the small town feel we had again.It is happening on upper main st. now.We just need to get the lower end up and running.I do not think that we can create a Pearl District here on this side of the river.But I may be wrong.

timerick — July 24, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I say keep Vancouver as a town with the small town feel about it.
Been here for more than 36 yrs and like the small town feel.
Lets not turn Vancouver into the low IQ of Portland..

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 12:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I still see that low income housing referred to occasionally - I gather planning for this allows access to low interest rate loans. Someone has to live in those apartments along the railroad tracks.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 12:44 a.m.

Exactomundo!!! I'd doubt if any of the people questioned in the video have any inkling of the historic significance of our quaint town of Vancouver and of Clark County.

Keep Portland Weird!!!

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Any of you guys ever been to Carmel California? Home of Clint Eastwood, Doris Day and many others. It's proof that a small town can survive and keep it local charm.

hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm one of those eastside outlanders with no ties to the old downtown, so my opinions tend to go another direction when talks of resurrecting the place come up.

I grew up on Marine bases and around the Wash DC area, but "home" was the little factory town in central PA (Milton) that my father was from. He moved us there in '68 when he went to Vietnam, and when I started my senior year in HS I moved out and got my own apartment - stayed there when he returned and moved back to the VA Beach area. There was a "realness" about that town that I didn't feel anywhere else - the people I knew came from working class families. Some of us went on to college, but many others went straight to the factories. I worked my way through college (it was still cheap enough back then) by doing warehouse work, steel plant work, and running two separate time cards on the docks at the Boiardi's plant during tomato harvest season. I had friends when I moved there because of all the visits when growing up, but I still had to fist fight my way into the local pecking order. It was different then - most of those I fought with became best friends. (I did have to learn that kicking and things of that nature weren't accepted - that's how we fought in the DC area.) I learned to drive a forklift - got fired for racing with a coworker on the other one in the warehouse. Learned to drive stick on an old 10 speed Mack tractor truck, backing trailers into the tomato dock. We got together and partied at the all night drive in movies - everyone parked in the back row, and we'd tap a quarter keg and smoke a little weed - among other pastimes. That old town died when the mills all closed, but I still keep in touch with the people from back there.

Maybe that's why I keep harping on allowing room for the Port to expand. I keep thinking that this will provide opportunities for the kids who aren't "wired for" going to college. Portland may be nice for people who like that lifestyle, but we still need jobs for people who sweat and get their hands dirty.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Many of us are on the same page here about preserving Vancouver's small-town, unpretentious character. It thrills me no end to see so many young people living and working here, too. The rate with which downtown historic homes are being renovated in Arnada, Hough, Carter Park, and Shumway is heartening. That tells me that Vancouver offers a formula that is attractive to a wide range of ages and tastes. And that formula is not PDX clone.

I am happy to make room for high end development, but I wonder if small-town and high-end is a compatible concept. Maybe in Carmel.

roger: I agree about Port expansion and skilled labor jobs. We need to provide the opportunities to keep residents on this side of the river for work.

manthou — July 25, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A much talked about item. Good to see Dems willing to butt heads with their President about privacy concerns. I guess Republicans are all talk.

///Amash Amendment On NSA Data Collection: House Roll Call Vote///

The 217-205 roll call Wednesday by which the House rejected a challenge to the National Security Agency's secret collection of hundreds of millions of Americans' phone records.

A "yes" vote was a vote to halt the NSA program; a "no" vote was a vote to allow the program to continue.

Voting yes were 111 Democrats and 94 Republicans.

Voting no were 83 Democrats and 134 Republicans.

X denotes those not voting.

There is one vacancy in the 435-member House.


Democrats – Sewell, N.

Republicans – Aderholt, N; Bachus, Y; Bonner, N; Brooks, N; Roby, N; Rogers, N.

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Crosscut has a deeper treatment of the Port of Vancouver meeting and its implications today by Floyd McKay.

I do hope they expand their SW WA coverage:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 25, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Spoken just like a "cheap W" of Portland would.

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's not often I agree with crap, but I do for the most part with this.

I've not only traveled the planet a bit, I've lived in a few places. I think most who love our "small town feel" have spent most or all of their lives here.

I haven't lived here long, but for providing perspective, that can be a good thing. Forest for the trees.

Just where is this "small town feel"? A few pockets downtown and around the city somewhere? I'll truck around a place like Longview if I want that quaint small town thing.

From 4th Plain to 99 to Mill Plain and beyond, Vancouver is just a sprawl of closed shops, too many vacant buildings, unkept and a community that can't even agree on a new bridge (even when the Fed is footing most of the bill)

This place comes off as being stagnant. Big time. But that's the way many of the old timers like it. Because they relate to .. stagnancy. Familiarity breeds confidence and acceptance with the Boomer gen and beyond. (of which I belong to) I guess it's all in one's mind.

I think there's much Portland envy here. Just old time ego's content with less while pointing their aging fingers at "weird" Portland.

Most of Portland has more of a small town feel than Vantucky. Just sayin'

All in all, Vancouver's okay. But why make it into something it most certainly is not.

A place with that ol' small town charm.

Vantucky in Clarkistan. Embrace it honestly.

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Vantucky" is no where like "Kentucky"
"Clarkistan" where in the world do you get that?

No rolling green hills, no horse farms, no miles upon miles of sand..

If one is so unhappy with Vancouver, why do you live here, better yet why did you move here? Didn't you bother to check Vancouver out before moving here?

Small town = no concrete jungle.

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I can understand where you are coming from and why you feel that way.I am one of the ones you talk about.Have lived here all my life.I have also lived in the other Washington.More specific D.C.I hated that Town.I don't think I will count the others.Nothing can match Chu Lai or Da Nang or CamRon Bay.But we are so different from Portland or Seattle.And if we choose we can go to those places to see the arts or take in a show or have a fancy dinner at a upscale restaurant.Or I can take a drive here and be at the camp site in Cougar in 45 min.Or take a hour and be in Stabler north of Carson.Also I can walk Downtown and meet 10 people that I know.We can visit the Wineries that are all around Clark County.I guess it depends on what you enjoy.I do not go to Portland much because I don't like the traffic and I just don't feel comfortable in downtown Portland.The Same with Seattle.When my daughter was alive she lived in Bellingham and I really enjoyed the town and the water front.Some of the young people I have talked with in their 20s and 30s say the night life in down town Vancouver is getting better and is less expensive than Portland.So I guess we are doing something better.

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Way to wake everybody up!

Honestly, I can choose to live anywhere in the country and Canada (permanent residence status there) and I have been looking, just for comparison.

Downtown Vancouver fills the bill nicely for me: walkable, safe, historic, good food, galleries, movies: all without starting up the car. Friendly neighbors. An opportunity to make a difference in local government.

If there is a Nirvana NW, please advise. Any suggestions?

manthou — July 25, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.

The Seattle population center controls the state, much to the displeasure of the east side folks. Same with Portland and the Oregon eastsiders. That same situation exists pretty much everywhere. Then you’ve got people moving here from those population centers to get away from it all. But then they want their lite rail, and high rise apartments, and they want their baseball team.

The Clarkistan thing is the Leftie’s attempt to compare Clark County with some Islamist country.

So if you don’t go along with their collectivist ideas, then you’re a hillbilly and a religious zealot. Just like those people in western Washington. See? Isn’t that really cute?

In fairness, there’s plenty of people who moved here who are just the opposite, and have had it with Leftist ideas about “progress” being forced on them.

kn_dalai — July 25, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well stated, kn_dalai.

As timerick says, I've also lived in quite a few cities around the world - to include NYC. They tend to be interesting for a bit, and then the constant noise and crowding get more and more irritating.

As manthou notes, you can have enough of the amenities, and at the same time the comfortableness (is that a word?) of a small town.

We don't need to be a city.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No hc I won't give it up. You sir can give it up, it's been abundantly clear for sometime you don't live in Vancouver.
1. How much money has been placed in your back-pocket to promote CRC, Water-front project just to mention a couple?
2. or are you one of those "old monies" that timerick has spoken of often?

If you don't live, pay property tax, or own a business here you have no voice. Go away little man, your cheap Portland ho tactics don't flow with this homie.

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK I am a liberal, leftist, whatever. I am all for progress. BUT I LIKE it here. I made a CHOICE to live here and not in Portland. I like rural, I like less noise, I do not need the big, noisy city. If I want it, I hoof it over to PDX. Not like it is far.

We can stand some progress in Vancouver and surrounds for sure, but PLEASE: don't pave it all over and make it a noisy, dense, city with nothing left but dense and tense high-rises. What is wrong with a small but updated downtown as Manthou describes? Nothing.

You no like, change it or leave it. period.

luvithere — July 25, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ kn_dalai — July 25, 2013

Truth in that!

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Conservative citizens pairing with journalists to get their message to the public. Karl Rove, Mrs. Clarence Thomas.

Aren't journalists supposed to be "neutral" and watchdog the right and the left?

From Mother Jones:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 25, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Helix Nebula is an oldie by any other name.

soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Helix Nebula is an oldie by any other name. -- soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.

This comment makes no sense; other than you have frequently alleged that I am goldenoldie.

Your powers of discernment are really quite poor. Perhaps you should take up a new hobby. Might I suggest kaleidoscope viewing? I’m sure that your talents are uniquely qualified for this fine endeavor, and should keep you ocuppied for years to come.

kn_dalai — July 25, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — July 25, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.

There have been times where we disagreed with each other's comments but this one by far...I wholeheartedly carry the same sentiment with your reason to live in Clark County and what your vision of our community should be!!!

Unfortunately, the planners of our county are still amiss in their planning processes and their intent for quality design and future goals for Clark County. A good example??? 119th Street east of Winco and SR 503, there is a condominium in the process of the middle of the farming community- totally out of character for the area and with no vision other than to change the zoning.

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — July 25, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.

Careful, kn_dalai. You're feeding the troll. Those who are quick to accuse are most likely guilty of the very game they claim others play. You know who you are, I know who I am and the same goes for soul_pancake. We are all individuals with individual opinions and this site is open for free discussion. Isn't that all that matters?

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.

There is a lot to be said for growing up in a community and staying with it. Long time friends, business associates, memories etc. I lived a good part my life in Sin City. Granted, it's a little different than most places, but in the late sixties up until the early Eighties, I can't see how there could have been a better place to grow up and into.

After Spilotro got whacked the town went to hell. Seriously. Granted The Ant was out of control and new leadership was needed, but with times changing the new guard changed with it. Zero order and outside gangs came into town and crime went rampant. The mob went 99% white collar and lost much of it's influence at the street level, which in turn affected many aspects of Vegas society.

Vegas is especially nice if you dig beige. :) But Mt. Charleston, Lake Mead, and Red Rock Canyon, all within about a 30 minute drive, offer so much more.

I really enjoy/appreciate the perspective you and manthou lend to this forum as local business owners. If the majority of Vancouver business folk were as open minded and reasonable as you guys, I'm sure we'd get more Portlanders over here spending $$$.

This is a beautiful area and has so much to offer. It's a bummer that local politics are so divisive when it comes to improvement/upkeep.

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Helix Nebula is an oldie by any other name.

soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.

Spot on!

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So holycrapola... to become who you are today, it took what you did in the past...your form your carefree soul you constantly boast about, am I right? If so...then why should Vancouver and Clark County not reflect on the past and remind the world just how it began here in the first place and continued to thrive and grow to what it is today? That my fellow forum dweller is how great cities, large and small, are formed. It's not how big the city is or how many businesses or how many cluster communities are formed, bringing in temporary jobs for many and full pockets for a few. It is the character and the colorful history of a community which makes it what it is today. Mistakes are made and corrected and sometimes some really good ideas are implemented. Others...sidelined because of funding. That's how it is.

I'd asked you a question the other day about the type of businesses in the terminals at the Port of Portland. I think you know why. Vancouver is not the size of Portland. Its needs aren't as extensive as Portland's...hence the lack of support for light rail in our community. As I've said, I'm not crazy about crude oil (and coal for that matter) shipped into and through our community, but when BIG BUSINESS talks, our inept local leaders listen. Their goal is only for jobs it would bring BEFORE safety issues. You ARE aware the UP railroad line runs harsh chemicals, oil and coal right through most of the north side of Multnomah County's residential and commercial districts, right??? And where are the railroads in SW Washington??? Something to think about when it comes to safety via rails.

Just some food for thought.

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.

Why is it you and your sidekick make such assumptions, just because there are others with similar comments...and these comments don't match yours??? This is childish behavior. Leave it in elementary school, would ya???

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 25, 2013 at 12:37 p.m.

Are you a Canuck?

Je souhaite que nous ayons canadien de soins de santé de style!

"If there is a Nirvana NW, please advise. Any suggestions?"

I'm still looking. I mentioned Longview in another post as having the small town charm, but it doesn't appear to be a community with a lot of investment. I'm guessing it has a history of Conservative politics?

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ kn_dalai — July 25, 2013 at 2:14 p.m

One you speak of could be.. one might call “special needs”?

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What happened to fro? I swear to Christ I thought he might be re-thinking party choices.

Car fiftyfro-where are you?

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail,years ago Longview was a hopping place.They had the logging,mills,aluminum plant,Longview Fibre and lots of support business.There still are a few up there but not what it was.It still is a beautiful place around the park with old stately homes. .They also had some of the best high school sports teams in Washington.Lots of tax dollars.Not so much anymore.But still fun to go to once in awhile.

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift,Nail & Roger,We may be in trouble.I just read a article on MSN about the effects of pot on the adolescent brain.University of Maryland did a study on adolescent mice.They found that pot greatly altered cortical oscillations and impaired cognitive abilities of the frontal cortex of the brain.May cause permanent brain damage in teenage users.I knew there was a reason the Viet Cong sold the stuff to us.My ex wife may have been right in saying she thought I had a frontal labotomey.

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gotta love the push button replies!

soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — July 25, 2013 at 4:12 p.m

Hey!!! Maybe the Indians can claim THAT land on the Columbia and build their casino THERE!!!! Talk about bringing in some business.

hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai who cares about your verbose talk? I find your responses to be quite the reward for the effort put forth. Keep those less than witty words coming!! As for GO, same old story, different day.

soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal some, the pics you showed are suitable for their locale (if you like that type of design), but in the real world, construction design needs to be one which fits the landscape. Washington State, being the Evergreen State and the City of Vancouver once again designated as Tree City USA by the National Arbor Day Foundation, would lose its status if development resembled the pics you shared.

That afternoon wind you speak of...from another direction, it smells like rotten eggs and it emanates from North Portland. Also, we are blessed with the Columbia River Gorge winds in the area as well. Holyc, if you take a ride down Fourth Plain Road towards Fruit Valley, you cross a bridge over the rail yards of Vancouver. Many of those rail cars are filled with toxins, oil and God knows what else...some I don't even care to mention. They're sitting there for quite some time...and they're coming from all over our nation, even beyond.

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u — July 25, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

Gotta love the push button replies!!!


goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.

Or maybe another set up like Great Wolf Lodge!!!

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see the kaleidoscope viewing isn't going to well.

kn_dalai — July 25, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 4:51 p.m

Not a bad idea! What better way to get Portland to spend their money over here. Beef up the south end of downtown with restaurants, art studios, specialized shops..

More business for the Hilton maybe more hotel/motels along with a casino.
Jobs are what we all want to see come to town don't we?

soul_pancake — July 25, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick - "impaired cognitive abilities" and "permanent brain damage" are relative concepts. Our brain is a wonderful organ; one that often finds ways to work around irrepairable damage.

I figure smoking weed is what helped me work my way through a lot of B.S. that I grew up with. (That and an occasional dalliance with some little orange pills.) But I was also able to see when it was time to walk away and go in a different direction in my later 20's. Did those days keep me from living up to my full potential, or some such nonsense? I don't know and I don't care - I've enjoyed my adult life, had more good than bad, and wouldn't go back to change anything (not much, anyhow).

And for an old fart who may have once had a prefrontal lobotomy, you seem to have done pretty good for yourself.

Everything is what we make of it.

(Well, maybe Nails took things too far - That's the best explanation I can come up with for all those crazy liberal ideas of his.) (Add all those little smiley things here.)

roger — July 25, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - Not a bad idea, but probably doomed to failure. Seems like the Grand Ronde tribes have done a pretty good job of stirring up opposition to casinos in Gresham and north of Vancouver. Must be some real money coming out of Spirit Mountain.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well now, all this talk about what not to do gave me a real thirst. hot and muggy today anyway.
A good microbrew might be exactly what is called for right now. Really doubt it will hurt my brain cells. Kidneys will love it.

luvithere — July 25, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Do a google Satellite look at the riverfront - there's not much room left out to the Glenn Jackson. Tidewater Cove seems to be doing quite well with the apartment dwelling crowd, and most of the land to the east is already built on - mostly the very large McMansions we hear about on big lots. And west of Tidewater Cove is largely commercial operations. And a couple of big old ocean going luxury cruisers parked in that little cove below Marine Park.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 25, 2013 at 6:48 p.m

If we could get the city council on board instead of filing lawsuits, I think they could fight off Spirit Mountain. Maybe if the Cowlitz promised a cut to the city on top of the water and sewer, power costs, they just might help out.

OH! Maybe if they promised to build a bridge.

hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - And light rail to the casino would make sense.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye for some reason the city will fight the casino for ever.They have to protect there Hilton mayby?Roger you might even get me on a light rail to the casino.Can I have concealed carry on light rail.

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This Saturday is the annual Hawaiian festival at Esther Short - One of my few planned visits downtown. And hopefully peaches are ripe.

I guess there's also a protest against coal and oil trains that same day. Hopefully they stay down at the river.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - I do, if I'm on it at night. It hasn't been necessary, but better safe, etc.

roger — July 25, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 4:37 p.m

I think it's kinda like coffee. One week they say it's good for you..then the next they say it's not.

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 25, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.

Okay if I bring my chainsaw?

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger we are making a run to Yakima on the 24 of next month.We get all our pears and peaches then.My wifes brother inlaw works for Del Monte.He was here yesterday and said both should be good by then.He lives in Yakima.You might find this interesting.Their son inlaw competes in the par olympics.He lost both legs and most of his left hand in Afganistan a few years ago when he was in the Marines.It is just fantastic to to watch him ski.He is on Mt. Hood practicing this week.He is going to come to town next year and speak at Rock Solid in Brush Prairie.

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — July 25, 2013 at 8:28 p.m

When I first got my CWP in Multnoomah County, it was illegal to carry on Tri-met buses and Max. It had something to do with Federal regulations and since they were federally funded, it transferred. Now, I am led to understand that is no longer the case. So in answer to your question, yes I hear you can carry on Max. The problem would be what to do with it when entering the casino. Most ban weapons of any kind and no lockers.

hawkeye — July 25, 2013 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Rep. Herrera Benton Beutler.

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

if somebody would like to build an electrified fence surrounding vancouver, we can all get our guns, defend our wall, and declare ourselves the new USA.

**"Feds tell Web firms to turn over user account passwords
Secret demands mark escalation in Internet surveillance by the federal government through gaining access to user passwords, which are typically stored in encrypted form."**

.. more @ site

DeeLittle — July 25, 2013 at 11:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — July 25, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

"Why is it you and your sidekick make such assumptions, just because there are others with similar comments...and these comments don't match yours???"

Making assumptions while criticizing...making assumptions.

This is childish behavior. Leave it in elementary school, would ya???

Sure Dee.


roger — July 25, 2013 at 6:08 p.m.

I like your attitude about dope. Probably because it mirrors mine. We are the sum of our experiences and I wouldn't change much either. Maybe one or two. But content taking my life experience into the beyond.

As for "(Add all those little smiley things here.)"

What does the Psychic Singer sing? What the world needs now is.....close enough.

.' '.
/ O O \
: :
| |
: ', ,' :
\ '-.____.-' /
'. U .'
.' '.
/ O O \
: :
| |
: ', ,' :
\ '-......-' /
'. .'
.' '.
/ O O \
: ` :
| |
: .------. :
\ ' ' /
'. .'
.' '.
/ O -=- \
: :
| |
: ', ,' :
\ '-......-' /
'. .'
.' \\ // '.
/ O O \
: :
| |
: __ :
\ .-"` `"-. /
'. .'
.((( ))).
/ (O) (O) \
: :
| @ @ |
: _.-..-._ :
\ '-..-' /
'. .'

oO' 'Oo
O' O O 'O
O Oo, ,oO O
Yb. .dP

.' _ _ '.
/ (_) (_) \
| , , |
| \`. .`/ |
\ '.`'""'"`.' /
'. `'---'` .'

.' _ _ '.
/ (o) (o) \
| |
| \ / |
\ '. .' /
'. `'---'` .'

.' '.
/ o o \
; ;
; \ / ;
\ '---' /

nailingit — July 25, 2013 at 11:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Drift,Nail & Roger,We may be in trouble.I just read a article on MSN about the effects of pot on the adolescent brain. University of Maryland did a study on adolescent mice."
(Timerick 7/25 4:37)

First off, I know of no one advocating adolescent recreational cannabis use. Sure, kids smoke pot, but I think our efforts should go towards honest education and not scare tactics.

I use "scare tactics" because frankly I discredit any study claiming a relationship between cannabis and schizophrenia. The numbers simply don't bear that out. More folks use cannabis today than ever before, yet cases of schizophrenia are on the decline. 'Least, that's what the voices tell me.

Drift — July 26, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding the coal trains and storage in the Port of Vancouver, I wasn't too happy about hearing of supporting dirty energy...and I still have my concerns. I decided to do a little study up on what other uses, coal has...and much to my surprise, it is used in manufacturing of aluminum and steel as well. The two types of coal most used are Steam coal (or Thermal Coal)...for energy consumption and Coking coal (or metallurgical coal) for steel production. A quote from the link below - *Japan, Chinese Taipei and Korea, for example, import significant quantities of steam coal for electricity generation and coking coal for steel production. It would be worth the time to find out just how much of the coal that would come to our terminal actually goes towards the making of metal products rather than towards polluting energy needs. I'd bet most of it goes towards heating, though.

*The link below is worth taking the time out to study for those who are interested.

According to the following link, China is forecast to increase the metallurgical coal imports by 16% per year to reach 61 metric tons.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola, I believe with the renewal project...complexes like the Academy Building can be restored with LEED certification. The aesthetic appeal of the historic "Girl's School" complements our city. The new Library across the street from the Academy building fits the overall current design of the city, utilizing passive solar energy for lighting during daylight hours. From some angles, you can actually see the image of the Academy Building on the library windows which again, brings attention to the historic complex. The library landscaping and xeriscaping requires little watering. They have met certain height restrictions. Currently, the old City Hall is getting redone and its construction is very similar in stature.

My point is...improve what exists, then work on new design which complements the other buildings. You can't put those mega stacking-block resort/office buildings on the waterfront. Number one, there's not enough room and number two, they wouldn't complement the surrounding strata.

The Boise Cascade project in its a nice pipe dream but the fact remains...there's no place to "move" the port and there's no way in God's creation that Hayden Island would move their shopping center. If a new bridge does go in, it will eliminate any chance of a nice view of the Columbia in either direction. The "dream" of Gramor and the City of Vancouver to move elderly into the retirement my opinion...would be done in order to eliminate the Smith Tower which...given the immensity of the project, would most likely cost more to upgrade to current seismic and LEED standards and would be removed, but something which resembles the Smith Tower AND complementing the trend of construction design in downtown would be a positive attribute. I believe the Smith Tower would have the capability of becoming something visually appealing...but at what cost and who has the funds to support such a project? You have to work with what you've got before going onto a pipe dream. I only wish the city would get their act together and realize that.

Too many ideas rushing through my mind right now...but I think you get the gist of what I am saying...I hope.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe it's time to look a bit closer at LEED certification and decide if it's truly worth the cost. Similar standards and efficiency can be achieved without going through the expensive process of becoming "certified." Or so The Oregonian's editorial board claimed in this article about West Linn a few days ago.

roger — July 26, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Children's brains are vulnerable during so many stages of development and we keep learning more and more about this as our imaging technology advances. Abuse and neglect in the first three years of life; exposure to lead and chemicals; heavy drug and alcohol use in teens: risky business all the way around.

nailingit: The Canadian health system worked well for us when we were living there. Families in poverty never suffered for lack of access. On another note: our youngest son was born there and enjoyed dual citizenship. As a Canadian, he had the opportunity to attend any university there as a citizen, tuition paid by the government. Taxes were higher, but the income was high, too. We lived in what was thought of as the most socialistic province: Saskatchewan. You could choose where your school taxes went: parochial or public. Dental clinics in the schools. Government-owned utilities. Nice folks. I saw some ugly discrimination against the first people (Cree tribe) and highly-educated immigrants from India and Pakistan, though.

I look forward to the Affordable Healthcare Act, if it does not get de-railed.

The only complaint I had about that part of Canada? The extreme weather.

manthou — July 26, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Isn't that renovated Federal building in PDX where you work LEED Gold?

I worked in a school that snagged state funding for a LEED Gold building about 5 years ago and the cost increase that came with that badge was significant to the taxpayer. If they only knew...

The skeptic in me tells me that this is an excuse for builders to bag more profits. I think it can be more affordable and should be, if the government wants to reward people for jumping on that bandwagon.

On the other hand, adding energy-efficiency to existing homes seems to make a difference (ductless heat pumps, for example, or using recycled, reclaimed materials).

manthou — July 26, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We're being forced to move into that building around the December time frame. It's LEED Platinum. And in my opinion you're correct - This whole program is a GSA boondoggle.

For starters, we're being required to buy all new office furniture - What we have now would interfere with the "proper" airflow and light distribution that the building's energy savings are built around. We'll have to replace some of our older equipment that isn't considered energy efficient. Desktop printers are a No Go. Our rental costs will also rise because the building is geared toward an 8-5 weekday operation; we operate several hours on both sides and on weekends. And that's just the tip of this. We calculated this move will cost nearly $1 million to accomplish, and an increase of about $250K annually thereafter. We based much of our opposition to this move on this, and were told "Tough" and that we'll just have to "learn new ways of doing business."

roger — July 26, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I think the rationale is: spend the money on the front end to get off the energy-sucking grid in the long term?

Furniture that promotes air flow and light distribution: that is a new one to me.

Where is the WW on something like this? Its editorial stance is probably pro.

Seems to me that this is a worthy investigative piece for some enterprising journalist to undertake. What does research show us about the efficacy of these LEED elements? If they work, then let's make them affordable so more can benefit.

Sometimes I think they are embraced for their exclusivity and high "snooty factor."

I think energy-savings opportunities should be sensible, affordable and available for all for maximum benefit, or else it becomes something only the rich and powerful can afford. Just another way to separate the haves from the have nots.

We jokingly refer to our cozy little beach retreat as "Larry Leed certified." Larry was the surfer bum hippie who built it by himself in the late 70's, entirely out of recycled and reclaimed materials like barn beams and planks and used hardware and windows/skylights. People are impressed with his ingenuity and amazed by its eclectic charm. It is well-insulated and uses natural light and wood heat to minimize energy use and loss. Affordable energy savings before the hipsters adopted it as their own. :)

manthou — July 26, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou my parents bought a small fishing cabin back in the 60's in Sea View just south of Long Beach.My father was a recycler back when no one even had heard of the word.The cabin was about 900 sq.ft.Was heated totally with wood that he salvaged from logging sites.He died there several years ago but my mother lived there until 2006 when we moved her here with us.She could keep that house at 80 all winter.Supprising what some of our older folks came up with back in the day.

timerick — July 26, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Children's brains are vulnerable during so many stages of development and we keep learning more and more about this as our imaging technology advances. Abuse and neglect in the first three years of life; exposure to lead and chemicals; heavy drug and alcohol use in teens: risky business all the way around.

manthou — July 26, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.

I get what you're saying but...

I think it's important to distinguish the use of marijuana from abuse & neglect-lead & chemicals-heavy drug & alcohol use.

Such comparisons when framing a pot conversation draw a negative picture before the facts, and can skew our thought process to be bias from the get go.

I'm all for fact based evidence, and so far it seems up in the air about this.

Imagine if further studies show early pot use to actually help with adolescent brain development. I doubt that will happen but...

nailingit — July 26, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

NSA Spying on Americans? A look at this Conservative majored activist court.

///Roberts’s Picks Reshaping Secret Surveillance Court///

WASHINGTON — The recent leaks about government spying programs have focused attention on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and its role in deciding how intrusive the  government can be in the name of national security. Less mentioned has been the person who has been quietly reshaping the secret court: Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr.

Ten of the court’s 11 judges — all assigned by Chief Justice Roberts — were appointed to the bench by Republican presidents.

In making assignments to the court, Chief Justice Roberts, more than his predecessors, has chosen judges with conservative and executive branch backgrounds that critics say make the court more likely to defer to government arguments that domestic spying programs are necessary.

Ten of the court’s 11 judges — all assigned by Chief Justice Roberts — were appointed to the bench by Republican presidents; six once worked for the federal government. Since the chief justice began making assignments in 2005, 86 percent of his choices have been Republican appointees, and 50 percent have been former executive branch officials.

Read more @

nailingit — July 26, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Since this guy is claiming a disability, I'm sure many would like to contribute to his suffering.

Maybe the sprayed should file a civil suit. Or just sit him down and pepper the hell out of him.

///John Pike, Pepper-Spraying Cop, Seeks Workers Comp From UC Davis///


DAVIS, Calif. -- The former police officer who pepper-sprayed students during an Occupy protest at the University of California, Davis is appealing for worker's compensation, claiming he suffered psychiatric injury from the 2011 confrontation.

John Pike has a settlement conference set for Aug. 13 in Sacramento, according to the state Department of Industrial Relations' website.

Pike was fired in July 2012, eight months after a task force investigation found that his action was unwarranted.

Online videos of him and another officer casually dousing demonstrators with pepper spray went viral, sparking outrage at UC Davis leaders. The images became a rallying symbol for the Occupy Wall Street movement.

nailingit — July 26, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger and Manthou...

For some say their developed property is LEED certified does appear to carry a stereotypical "Look what I've done" mindset, but the long term benefits of sustainability is the main goal. Not only is there energy consumption reduction, it also includes green construction, cleaner air within the complex (great for those who suffer ongoing allergy/asthma issues) and is environmentally friendly. As far as I'm concerned, all new construction should meet the requirements of LEED certification and if it is too expensive to construct, then they need to think second thoughts about doing the construction in the first place.

In Clark County, BPA wants to string up more power lines in order to feed the growing energy needs of the west coast. So why not fight back, each and every one of us, by doing our part to conserve as much energy as possible, build green, remodel green and take advantage of the new energy-efficient products when applicable??? Even by a homeowner planting a deciduous tree on the west side of their home will reduce cooling needs in the summer. The less dependence any of us have on the grid, the better off we are. I just read that BPA is raising rates this October. Are you ready for the energy cost crunch that will inevitably hit the consumers???

Just an FYI, I thought without going as far as investing in solar energy, I'd done all I could in my home...till I replaced my clothes washer with a new, Energy Star appliance and changed a couple of CFL bulbs over to LED bulbs on my ambient lighting fixtures. Already have noticed a positive difference in my energy consumption.

Just a small difference can go a long way, especially when you look at your savings over the cost of a year. New construction could get a head start with LEED-certified construction and proper landscaping.

goldenoldie — July 26, 2013 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, I too have relatives who own property on the LB Peninsula. They said the energy costs are through the roof there. Any way people can do their part to reduce the strain on the power grid AND save money at the same time is well worth the energy, the investment and the savings!!!

goldenoldie — July 26, 2013 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit and Drift: I did have two students, both under the age of 18, who had medical marijuana cards. So obviously their doctors, who prescribed it, were not too worried about their brain development. Obviously, their medical diagnoses, both quite different, allowed this legally.

timerick: Your parents' cabin sounds absolutely full of old school charm. I can bet that you had many happy memories there.

I am absolutely in LOVE with ductless heat pumps. They are not unobtrusive on the wall, but you get used to them. They hardly pull any electricity at all and Clark PUD offers a $1500 rebate for getting them installed.

manthou — July 26, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What constitutes an "earth friendly platinum" designation for a new home?

I was curious, based on our discussions about LEED gold and platinum for public buildings yesterday.

There is a building in SE Portland called the "Water House." Here is what it contains that makes it energy-efficient:

[link text][1]


manthou — July 27, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 27, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.

Some great ideas for sure. I'm just working on thoughts of a needed new patio deck and find it overwhelming. :)

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone have any dark horses to add? (I know, it's early) The WP lists their top ten for possible 2016 Presidential runs from each party.

Someone off the list, yet someone I'm rooting for to change his mind is Duval Patrick, Gov of Mass.

Gillibrand/Patrick would be formidable, and a Warren ticket as well.

The shoe in...Hillary & ---

The Republicans, Christie & Walker?

Either way, it's a rehash of ideology the voters voted on in 2012.

Dems win again!

To note, the Republicans seem to have zero women in contention. I least I can't think of any.

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///ObamaCare funding battle pits Tea Party vs. establishment GOP///

The latest fight between Tea Party and establishment Republicans is a familiar one: ObamaCare.

The Tea Party is ready to take a stand on defunding the divisive healthcare law and willing to risk a government shutdown in the process.

Establishment Republicans worry the strategy will repeat the Clinton-era government shutdown showdown, which hurt Republicans in the 1996 elections.

Read more:


///Insurance premiums lower than expected under ObamaCare in Maryland///

Maryland officials were able to get every insurance company in the state to reduce their proposed rate increases — in some cases by as much as half.

“These rates are good news for Maryland families looking to shop for plans on the Maryland Health Connection,” said Joshua Sharfstein, secretary of the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.

For middle-aged adults buying a more robust policy, premiums would average roughly $260 per month — also less than most other states that have filed their rates for next year, and less than the Congressional Budget Office predicted those policies would cost under ObamaCare.

Most people who buy insurance through the exchanges won't pay the full premium out of pocket. The healthcare law establishes new tax credits to help cover the cost of premiums for low-income consumers.

About 75 percent of the people expected to enroll in Maryland's exchange will be eligible for tax subsidies, the state said.

Read more:

Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.

I want to see Christie get pissed at the Repubs and jump ship and sign on to be Hill's VP. That would make my day.

Hey Manthou and Timerick, I had breakfast at Dulin's this morning. What a treat. My Wife and I thought we'd like to try something a little more "local" than I-hop and I pass it most every morning to work, so why not. Five stars for me.

hawkeye — July 27, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: So glad to see you tried Dulin's! It is a fixture and THE place for an old timey traditional breakfast downtown. They are moving up the street a bit to the former site of Pop Culture on 20th and Main. It will be smaller and NO parking lot. They want to attract more foot traffic, I guess, and still stay in the area.

Anyone read the FB comments about the peaceful protest downtown and under/at the bridge today? I swear, if David Madore and Sharon Nasset had team-rappelled down the 1-5 bridge (now that's an image) to hang a NO TOLLS banner, they all would be cheering.

Why is the First Amendment only OK if it protects only one side's right to free speech?

No harm. No foul.

Anyone see it or participate? Love to hear your eyewitness account, if so.

manthou — July 27, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The fossil fuel protest: the O interviewed an 80 year old couple who showed up and KGW's video of it starts out with what looks like a bunch of elderly Red Hat society ladies singing a protest song (probably blue haired Peter Paul and Mary fans).

So what gives? Why such venomous attacks from the FB'ers?

Sorry I missed it.

By the way, Mick Jagger is 70 years old now. Amazing.

manthou — July 27, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I spent this afternoon at Esther Short - made a quick tour of the Farmers Market and then enjoyed the Hawaiian festival with a few of my Hawaiian and other Islander friends. There had to be a couple of thousand people - the entire park was elbow to elbow. One major disappointment - I stood in line for nearly a half hour to get some lau lau, just to be told they were out.

The protestors must have stayed further down by the bridge. I didn't see anything going on around the park.

There were some Yakima peaches there, but just so so. I'm figuring a trip around Mount Hood to one of the stands along OR35 may soon be on the agenda.

roger — July 27, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Facebook can be quite hostile at times. But they've got a long way to go before they catch up with The Oregonian.

Gotta watch out for those old girls - they're the most devious of we oldtimers. Anyone living by the following probably has an umbrella or a loaded handbag, and is just itching for the chance to use it.

"When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat that doesn't go and doesn't suit me."

roger — July 27, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, we do the fruit loop drive along 35 a few times a year. Out of towners love the scenery, as do we. The fruits and veggies are always so fresh and tasty, the whole drive is a great experience.

luvithere — July 27, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, had to just read the story about protests. I noticed that the FB bunch includes the usual suspects also. That means the tea party and the global warming deniers which often seems to mean the same. Just ignorant.

luvithere — July 27, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A rather good paper from an organization out of Bellingham addressing some of the problems with the proposed Gateway Terminal at Cherry Point - Their dispassionate addressing of the issue goes a lot further toward making the case against this project than the "we're killing the earth" crowd.

A couple of good points made --

- Advocates of shipping Powder River Basin (PRB) coal say that it's much cleaner than the coal from Indonesia and Vietnam that China and India will buy if this coal isn't available. The argument goes that they actually want our coal for this reason. This paper notes that PRB coal still has a low burning point, which means more has to be burnt to generate electricity, and a larger amount of toxic ash is created. They note the real reason the Asian market wants this coal is the cost - it would be cheaper to import our coal than to dig their own. (China has had major problems with their mining operations and cave ins.)

The article also identifies the real concern of the lack of rail tracks through the region for these trains to travel on. The rush to get the coal to market doesn't allow time for additional tracks to be built, so the existing ones will become overcrowded with the coal trains. (It'll be interesting to see how USDOT deals with the slow crawl speeds AmTrak will be subjected to; this could set their high speed rail agenda back a bit.) Bellingham is seeing the potential for the same problem some folks in Camas were identifying a few months back - having the town cut in half due to the number and lengths of these coal trains anticipated.

roger — July 27, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Saw the what a joke!

If they'd used more than 1% of their brain cells they wouldn't have been there.

It took fossil fuel to make/surface the streets and freeways, to drive/bus to get there. I doubt they walked.
It also took fossil fuel to drive, launch the boats into the water, and to run the boats to the bridge. The very banners they used was made with fossil fuel.

If they want to stop the use of fossil fuel, then they need to give up clothes, food, their abodes, toys, list goes on and on..

soul_pancake — July 27, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soul_pancake — July 27, 2013 at 8:58 p.m.

From what I saw, those "boats" were made of plastic. Do they know where plastic comes from?

hawkeye — July 27, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 27, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.

"I want to see Christie get pissed at the Repubs and jump ship and sign on to be Hill's VP. That would make my day."

That would be interesting to say the least! Some heads would explode for sure.

I was thinking, what if Justice Ginsburg retires a year or so into the "Clinton" Administration, (Republicans have to love the sound of that) and she appoints Obama to the Supreme Court. If planned, it would be a gamble on Ginsburg's or Obama's part, but what a payoff. If by happenstance, well then, it must be God!

Justice Obama.

I have a feeling the House would immediately draft legislation making SCJ lifetime appointments a thing of the past.....

One way to get limited tenure I suppose.

Imagine-Bill & Hillary back in the White House and a Kenyan Commie on the Supreme Court!

The right would spontaneously combust.

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — July 27, 2013 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 7:21 pm: Excellent, objective information you shared. I am concerned about the lack of tracks, that they cannot be built fast enough to accommodate the increased traffic.

So Don Benton thinks he possesses positive people skills to effectively manage? We'll see how he responds when his temper is triggered. So he thinks his job is to follow the laws and keep the county out of law suits? Worthwhile plan, but what are the consulting attorneys for? He will never convince me he is an environmentalist, however. What we need in that job is not necessarily an environmentalist, but a leader who can guide unbiased discussions and decisions based on current scientific evidence, not emotion, fear, or misinformation. Benton, like Mielke and Madore, is a scientific research deniers. Decisions are based on political and religious ideology.


A new state law that went into effect 7/28 is not being publicized: The Uniform Corrections and Clarifications Act. It favors publishers (not all publishers are as hands off to the editors and newsroom as Scott Campbell) at the expense of journalists and news consumers. I would not want to be working for Frank Blethen anytime, but especially now. Looks like the Exec Editor of the Seattle Times got wise and finally cut the cord for academia. What a smart choice.


John Laird: Enjoy your retirement. You will be missed. Will we be seeing bylines with Temple Lentz's name on them at The Columbian soon?

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just amazing stuff. What environmental passion this backwoods politician has. His #1 priority is not to be sued! He must see the handwriting on the wall, its' signed by ALEC.

(Vantucky OJT)

"I learned how to conserve water when I was just a boy because I grew up on a farm that didn’t have a well. We bought water by the truckload. … I learned from the time I was old enough to stand up to the sink that you turn the water on, you get your hands wet, you turn the water off. Soap them up, wash them up, turn the water back on to rinse. You don’t let the water run. It’s a precious resource. So am I an environmentalist? I think I am."

nailingit — July 28, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I know, I know........Amazing.

Like his buddy Mielke, Benton seems to be the Master of the Anecdote: this is MY personal experience and it trumps research and everything any scientist ever told you.


manthou — July 28, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.

I can see why he's been keeping himself off the radar. This guy should be laughed out of office.

Thanks M&M;! You truly outdid yourselves with this one. And that's saying something!

nailingit — July 28, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

I laughed my butt off.

" I know how to turn off the water when I'm not using it and I've planted lots of trees"

That's what I look for in an environmental manager.

Give me a friggin break.

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Some wise soul on the FB side said something to this effect: that is like saying washing your hands makes you a doctor.

To those who plead: give Benton a chance, I say he would not have ever gotten to third base in the first place.

If the Clark County hiring procedures had been followed, he would have had to compete with an open job search, against applicants who had some genuine experience and bonafides in the area of public environmental services. The hiring committee would have been composed of a wider range of persons, not simply two commissioners with a political and religious agenda.

Benton was handed this job by two friends. These friends are his primary clients now, not the environment, employees, or citizens of Clark County.

Mielke actually answered an email to me last week that declared with Benton's appointment, the rubber-stamp days are finally over. Really. I think Kevin Gray lost his job because he refused to rubber-stamp Mielke's wishes.

That Mielke email, hawkeye, in addition to being angry and rude, made me laugh my butt off. :)

Just who does he think he is fooling?

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.

Hell, I think I'm more qualified than Benton. I maintain 6 acres and have recycled a few trees that could no longer survive on their own. Also, I put in a new flower bed and water it with a water saving drip system tailored to the specific plants and their needs without wasting any water. I have managed a business with 9 employees and 2 cats and didn't lose or kill any of them.

Now that I think about it, I might be OVER-qualified.

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe we're approaching this hire from the wrong angle.

There's that age old saying, it's not who you know, but...

nailingit — July 28, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.

"Mielke actually answered an email to me last week that declared with Benton's appointment, the rubber-stamp days are finally over."

Question, does that mean that Madore and Meilke are done "rubber-stamping" new employees?

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Rubber stamping." Is that like prohibiting the availability of condoms on high school property?


Drift — July 28, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Ha, ha.

nailingit @ 1:35: Funny thought. Not such a pretty image. Kinda like this question: "Who do you have to (fill in your choice) to get a job around here?"

To change the subject: What's with the bicycle race in downtown Vancouver this afternoon? Streets closed around Columbia and 12-13th: could not get to the Post Office. There must be more than 50 people whizzing around the streets...

Where do they think they are? Portland? Seriously, anyone have a clue? Columbian: where was Zach and a reporter? :)

manthou — July 28, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My apologies, Columbian and Zach: You covered the bicycle thingy yesterday.

The Courthouse Criterium, eh?

[link text][1]


manthou — July 28, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 11:32 a.m.

I'm betting those two cats really ran the show.

roger — July 28, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou -

Portland's bike ride over all the bridges is August 11, so those Critters racing around town will be able to be there.

At least they aren't out on the Padden Parkway walking trail pretending they're riding in Le Tour while terrorizing those of us who prefer to use our own two feet to get around.

roger — July 28, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye I can have Bentons job.We did a remodel on our kitchen in 2007 we had the electrical and plumbing and wiring all brought up to code.This in a house built in the 40s. I bought the wife 3 green houses so we could grow our own food.But now we have to water all the plants we have and during the winter we have to have heat in 1 of the green houses to keep veggies growing.Can I be a eviromentalist? I could use the tax break.Plus the 100 G's a year.

timerick — July 28, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — July 28, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.

Sorry, you're overqualified too!

Roger, those cats were pretty sneaky, you could be right.

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — July 28, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.

I keep seeing those signs that say "Share the Road" and I want to make a sticker to put on said sign that says "SHARE THE COST"!

hawkeye — July 28, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Geez - If we're putting up our qualifications for Benton's County job, I earned the Soil and Water Conservation merit badge when I was a Scout - back in about '66, I think.

roger — July 28, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I'm not certain Temple would be a good fit at The Columbian. A description I borrowed from a Kipling review also describes her at her best -- "Witty, profound, wildly funny, acerbic and occasionally savage." You think those guys raising hell over on the health care and the Port articles are bad now - They'd go berserk if she cut loose on them. Poor old Editor Lou would have to give up on trying to maintain even the least bit of civility.

But I've also noted she doesn't seem to toe anyone's line. I'm not sure the Campbell family and those leeches in Identity Clark County would be comfortable with her there.

And also, I sort of recall some ill will from a couple of years ago. Editor Lou and Temple might have made up, but from the way Timmy canceled out on her candidate interview....

Which takes us back to the Campbells and ICC. Timmy is their hired blankety blank.

roger — July 28, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I sometimes follow Temple's tweets and she and Lou have been lunching lately, according to a couple, three of them.

I am amazed at how willing people are to share their lives with the world via social media.

manthou — July 29, 2013 at 5:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum Login