Open forum, June 17-23



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Drop Patty a line some time and ask her how she reconciles her support of veterans with her prohibitionist opinions on cannabis.

The conflict, you see, is related to the 22 vets who take their own lives daily (an average). More combat vets have died by their own hands then have been killed in theater.

And then you look at the anecdotal evidence showing positive results in treating PTSD with THC/CBD.

Maybe there is no conflict? I mean, dead people don't vote.

Oh, and in the event you're curious: I didn't receive a response (not even a form letter) when I queried the senator.

Drift — June 17, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When retail shops open up I suppose the issue will be moot. Any adult will be able to purchase cannabis for recreational or medicinal use.

At this point in time, however, the shops do not exist and PTSD is not a qualifying condition (to garner a cannabis rec.)

Oh, and let's not forget municipalities can always ban cannabis sales within their jurisdiction. See the current city zoning requirements for 3 to 10 patients to pool their resources and grow a lousy 45 plants. But I digress...

Murry has fought cannabis. Medicinal, recreational, hemp... Yet she also fights for veterans services. One would think the senator would be able to explain this conflict.

It's been my experience she chooses not to bother.

And no, I don't want "us" to pay for "their" pot.

Drift — June 17, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Why should we not pay for the Vets pot.If it is prescribed medicine by a V.A. doctor than V.A. should by all means pay for it.Just like any other prescribed medicine.And I agree with you Drift.Murry has done some good things for Vets,but she has also looked the other way on some also.She picks and chooses what she will support.

timerick — June 17, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree with timerick. If it's a prescribed med than by all means.

As a society, lets remove Pot's stigmatized boot heel off the chin of the medical community. Pot should go mainstream with HMO's, to include being covered by Medicare.

nailingit — June 17, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Will you be going to Doug's memorial tonight?

ELISI — June 17, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've been with the VA since back around '96, time. I pay $8.00 for most scrips. $24.00 for the blood pressure stuff, because it's a three month'er.

You do understand that cannabis *cannot* be prescribed because it's a schedule I drug? Yes, even in the states with med-weed laws. The most a physician is able to do is "recommend" giving cannabis a shot.

And a VA doc can't even do that, being a federal agency and all.

Now (if you've a mind to) take a look at a pharmaceutical called Sativex. Unlike Dronabinol, Sativex is derived from phytocannabinoids.

Things that make you hmm? Hmm?

Drift — June 17, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- I know it needs to be rescheduled. I look forward to the day it is, knowing it's a matter of time.

Pot has been beneficial to me in so many ways. It's good to hear some VA Docs recommend it.

I've got a couple of on going issues, and in a roundabout way my Kaiser Doc kinda suggested it. I don't feel as though I have the freedom to open up about it, as I'm not sure what he's bound to take note of and document. I hate the feeling of *sneaking around* so to speak, when it comes to medical stuff.

Also to reschedule Pot would cause employers and law enforcement to seek realistic guidelines with regards to employment and driving infractions.

I feel fortunate to have discovered many of Pot's bennies at a young age, and fortunate to currently be in a position to enjoy them. Many aren't, and suffer the fear of unemployment or unjustified incarceration. Just not right.

Conservative thought has stigmatized Pot for so many generations. It's great to see polls saying many are becoming tolerant or accepting. Long overdue.

It's great to talk about Pot!

nailingit — June 17, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Carl Hart: Drugs don’t turn people into criminals**

The "High Price" author argues drugs have become an easy scapegoat for deeper problems related to poverty and race.

nailingit — June 17, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, yes I am going to try to get there.I suspect quite a few people.Doug touched a lot lives in his 60 years.

timerick — June 17, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Writing Patty Murray is a joke. I sent an e-mail asking of she was aware Dept of Defense was, as a cost saver, throwing military retirees (and spouses) out of the TRICARE Prime program IF they live over 40 miles from an Active military medical facility. About two months later I got a response from a staffer saying how Senator Murray does all this wonderful stuff for military and their families - Didn't even begin to address what I was talking about.

My guess is she's more interested in our military when it comes to fihghting for Boeing contracts.

roger — June 17, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This makes me feel great!


A 5-year-old girl set up a lemonade stand across the street from the Westboro Baptist Church compound, and now the group is targeting her.

Jayden Sink raised nearly $200 Friday while she sold lemonade outside the Equality House across from the Westboro compound, and the online effort has raised nearly $15,000. The efforts have clearly irritated Westboro members, Equality House resident Davis Hammet said.

"She was so awesome. She was such a sweetheart," Hammet said. "She was right in front of this hate group. She was unfazed and unafraid, and they are so very vile and rude to people."

Because of the backlash from Westboro, Jayden's father, Jon Sink, founder of the philanthropic arts group, FRESHCASSETTE Creative Compassion, is declining media interviews. The family lives in the Kansas City area.

Planting Peace, which promotes peace and equality issues, bought the home across from Westboro's compound. It was painted in March to reflect gay pride colors.

Jayden told her father that she wanted to set up a lemonade stand to help a charity. After doing research, they settled on Equality House. She arrived about 11:30 a.m. Friday and set up shop. She set up hand-made signs including one that said, "Pink lemonade for peace. $1 suggested donation."

Hammet said he saw Westboro members pacing up and down the sidewalk and repeatedly making phone calls. He believes they tried to call the police, who declined to shut down the lemonade stand.

"They use every legal power possible to shut down any kind of opposition," he said.

He said they also yelled rude comments at those buying the lemonade.

A group of motorcycle riders from Fort Riley came by and bought lemonade, and also ruffled the feathers of Westboro members, Hammet said. One soldier stepped on Westboro property while taking pictures, prompting at least one person to yell profanities at the soldier, who responded that he fought for his freedoms, Hammet said.

Westboro has yet to return a tweet from seeking comment. The group's account repeatedly tweeted a picture of wording on their marquee outside the compound. The wording, which uses a homosexual slur, says homosexuals and their enablers will burn in hell and "lemonade won't cool any tongues."

hawkeye — June 17, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The rest of the story:

After the Huffington Post picked up the story about Jayden's lemonade stand, donations picked up. The goal was originally $500.

"It just resonates really well," Hammet said. "But we were shocked by how much money it raised."

He said it's crazy the remarks that Westboro members have made about Jayden and her lemonade stand.

"Jayden is 5 1/2 years old. She was having a lemonade stand for charity and they are saying nasty things," he said.

In addition to Equality House, Planting Peace runs orphanages, has helped treat 14 million for intestinal parasites, helped preserve 600 acres of rainforest and planted trees in earthquake-damaged Haiti.

To donate to Jayden's Pink Lemonade Stand for Peace, click here

Copyright 2013 KCTV (Meredith Corp.) All rights reserved.

hawkeye — June 17, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy, it sounds like you have the problem(s) well defined, what solutions are you working on?

hawkeye — June 17, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, and indifference kicks patience's butt.

hawkeye — June 17, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

muhahahaha hc you make me laugh

only chronic complainer here seems to be the one and only hc.
day by day same crapola over and over.

chronic complainers never do anything, they live to complain to seek attention. like a professional victim.

jasonb — June 17, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***HEY, ROGER et al***

is snowdon a patriot or a traitor?

DeeLittle — June 18, 2013 at 2:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not going to get into patriot vs. traitor. He is a criminal - When you do classified work for the US gov't, you sign a nondisclosure statement. Violation subjects you to criminal prosecution. (I've signed a few in my day, and haven't agreed with everything our military has done. In retrospect, sometimes I just may have been correct, and other times I was probably wrong.) It's time to pay up.

Snowdon was happy to collect a big paycheck for a few years, until he decided to acquire a conscience. If he'd decided to be a whistle blower as soon as he found out what the deal was, I might have more sympathy - but as it stands, I suspect he has other motives. I suppose he can follow through - turn himself in and go to prison. Then we can have people sitting back calling him a political prisoner. (Maybe he can share a cell with Manning.)

roger — June 18, 2013 at 5:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — June 18, 2013 at 5:35 a.m

Didn't you ever see Men in Black 2? Think locker J47.

hawkeye — June 18, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Will The Oregonian go fully digital, like the Seattle P-I? Will it cease its daily publication soon?
I mourn the old Oregonian and have for quite some time.

If it does, will the Columbian become the region's most significant news source? (Hint: this is an opportunity, Scott Campbell).

[link text][1]


manthou — June 18, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


as i write, i'm watching the congressional hearing testimony of Gen. Alexander.

when i 1st heard mr. snowdon, i was shocked and angered by what my government was doing...i have verizon and it's MY information included in the meta data.

after listening to alexander et al, the way the program works, the requirement to get FISA approval to retrieve actual data, the requirement that it's ONLY used for foreign to/from domestic numbers, i'm ok with that.

what i'm outraged by, and would like to see jail sentences for, is the *blatant, partisan, unconstitutional* use of data as we've seen with the IRS. there's the REAL threat in this program.

straining at gnats......

DeeLittle — June 18, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

well hc, if you are a complainer and do nothing, that's all you are is a chronic complainer, a forever professional victim.
as I see it, that is all you do, complain, I see no action on your part.

jasonb — June 18, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ms deelittle,

you stand correct on the irs being the real threat in this data mining. did you read where the irs is now gathering info on your personal medical history?

there are those that blame bush for this, this didn't happen on bush's watch, it is happening on obama's watch.

when you get a chance check out the "word list"

jasonb — June 18, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: The IRS - Just as scary is that they're the agency which will be responsible for ensuring we have medical insurance. (Perhaps that explains the medical history data mining?)

roger — June 18, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger it takes a signed release form to transfer your medical records from one doctor to another.

no doctor will even tell a family member your medical history without written permission or court order.

what makes the irs exempted from this?

jasonb — June 18, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Show me hard evidence proving the IRS is looking at medical records. Not allegations, not, "But I read it on the internet!"

The IRS doesn't give a fat rat's about your medical records. The IRS cares if you have health insurance. No insurance and you get dinged at tax time. That's it. Period.

Drift — June 18, 2013 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Winger conservatives aren't happy unless they're pushing some kind of conspiracy.

**The NRCC’s claim that the IRS will be ‘in charge of your health care’**

nailingit — June 18, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@Drift — June 18, 2013 at 12:25 p.m

Not going to get into any argument on this. but this is all I found on the IRS and our medical records..not much but..

Do you really want the IRS digging into your medical history?

All this questions the wisdom of putting the IRS in charge of enforcing a health care law. It's going to force all taxpayers to turn over personal medical details to an agency that has already admitted violating federal laws and abusing its power to punish political enemies of the current administration.

Have you ever thought about the enormous evil that could be accomplished by the IRS building a database of all Americans' health insurance records? This information could be covertly used by the government to do things like identify everyone taking antidepressant drugs then have them all declared mentally unstable and therefore unqualified to own firearms (as an example).

Once the IRS has your health insurance ID information -- which you are required to provide this coming January -- it could use that data to discover if you're seeing an infertility doctor, being treated for cancer, taking antipsychotic drugs, seeking medical treatment for substance abuse, were beaten or molested by a family member, were the victim of a rape assault or any other detail in your medical records. Is this the kind of information you trust the IRS to have on you?


And yes, it really is a simple matter for the government to gather all this data. Once you hand over your health insurance ID, the government can simply demand the complete medical records of all Americans from top insurers, then use your social security number to match your income and home address to your detailed medical records.

Feeling violated yet? Obamacare subjects us all to government data-rape.

and this..

click on the lists after "press release May 2013"

ELISI — June 18, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Republicans are backing themselves into the corner for next election. Using Issa and RW media to further a dumbing down of a info constituency believing falsehoods & conspiracies, will more than catch up with them. These "scandals" are becoming laughable, as well as lacking any substance whatsoever.

..and to debunk the other part of this IRS "conspiracy".

**Rep. Elijah Cummings releases a full IRS interview transcript**

The House Oversight Committee’s top Democrat on Tuesday released the full transcript of a congressional interview that he said “debunks conspiracy theories” about the IRS targeting controversy.

nailingit — June 18, 2013 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope, sorry ELISI(1:48 p.m.), you didn't acquiesce with my request for something tangible. Your links are near worthless in that regard. Hysterical hype is not hard evidence.

Drift — June 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi,I have V.A. medical care.The government all ready has all my health records.By the way I went to Doug Rogers service last night.I would say about 400 were there to pay respects.Very well done service.

timerick — June 18, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@Drift — June 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m

I stated I wasn't going to argue about it and that what I posted was all I could find at the time saying they would be gathering the info.
Not saying one word for or against.

This is the VERY reason why I and many who have left don't post on here anymore than once in awhile. People who jump, assume, and start with the name calling without even bothering to really read what a person wrote.

I'm done, no matter what anyone posts that doesn't go 100% with...oh well guess certain people like to go around their full life with blinders on and only read one side to everything.

ELISI — June 18, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@timerick — June 18, 2013 at 4:50 p.m

Yes timerick, my son and I both think there were at least 400 if not more there last night. Extremely nice Celebration of Life service last night.
Son remembers the "left handed screwdriver, bolt stretcher and wood stretcher" he watched several times over the 3 yrs he had Doug for wood, metals and applied technology classes pull it on other kids.
He had a wonderful sense of humor that got to the kids and turned many kids around to be better than they thought they could ever be.

ELISI — June 18, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"This is the VERY reason why I and many who have left don't post on here anymore than once in awhile. People who jump, assume, and start with the name calling without even bothering to really read what a person wrote."

Oh for chrissakes, ELISI...

Let me walk you through this, okay?

There was talk of the IRS snatching up medical histories. I stated unless an individual (any) could provide proof of the claim then it was nothing more than hoopla.

You provided links to hoopla.

I done wrote that I wasn't interested in hoopla.

And now you want to insinuate my interest in facts is argumentative. And further, that methodology is why people bail out of the basement?

I read what you wrote, ELISI. I even went to your links, though admittedly, I couldn't get through the first few paragraphs of both before kicking them to the curb.

And I defy you to find ANY post of mine where I've resorted to name calling.

Would you care to get back to the discussion about IRS having access to personal medical records, or would you prefer to continue disparaging my character?

Drift — June 18, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 7:47 a.m.

Unfortunately, most local papers lack any real substance - They can't compete with the internet for timeliness. The Columbian made the decision after the bankruptcy to focus on local community matters. So we'll get to hear all about a parade in Hazel Dell, or bellyaching about some pretend pro baseball team that moved to Hillsboro, or - our favorite - the M&M;&B; team. But we won't get a lot about anything of any real importance to the outside world.

Except when we discuss it here, that is. We've got a pissing contest going on today about the IRS and whether they're accessing our medical info. A lot of politics and whatnot, but it's still getting info to all of us that we probably won't get from most of the mainstream (except the Big Boys - It's why I have a Wash Post account).

roger — June 18, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm wondering if The Columbian is practicing some selective censorship these days. I've had two recent comments disappear. One was a challenge to Jim Moeller and a comment of his about the budget limiting what we can accomplish. I reminded him of his previous stand that providing quality health care is one of their most important tasks, and given that we out here are paying a lot more for everything, but not making any better pay, why is he instead trying to drain so much for transportation projects? (Or something like that.) Anyhow - I went back later to see if he responded, and the comment was gone.

roger — June 18, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb @ 9:56 a.m.

All that farfetched a comparison to the IRS?

roger — June 18, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, a few weeks ago, I tried to make a FB comment on two diiferent days. Set up a FB account, used my real name, email and phone number, though I was never contacted. Neither comment made it through. I recall that Dee has had problems in the past. Funny thing is, from time to time, some obviously phony names make it through. Someone the other day stated that Tiffany Lathrop is a phony name. Don’t know.


Interesting that another county staffer is leaving. The reason given is to move to Olympia where his wife lives. Maybe, maybe not; but some are assuming not. Those on the Left are really piling on. The sky is falling thing. One suggested that the State may have to intervene. Holy Moly, give it a rest people. I really wonder about the political affiliation of those employed by government. My guess is that a large majority are Dems and there’s a new sherrif in town that the deputies don’t cotton to. Reminds me of the discussion a couple of weeks ago over why colleges have such a lop-sided preponderance of Liberal profs.

kn_dalai — June 18, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 18, 2013 at 7:38 p.m.

Did you make the post as a response to his post? What I mean is, did you hit "reply" under his original post? If you did, and he copies his to his FB page, he can delete them from his FB page and they disappear from the "C" at the same time. Madore used to do that to me ALL the time, when I was still allowed to post over there. The only way to get around that is to make yours an original post and reference his. I asked Hill about that and he said there's nothing they can do about it.

hawkeye — June 18, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger,Kn_dalai and Hawk:I have tried to view some posts tonight and the C won't let them be seen.I did comment on the FB side about it but they didn't change anything.Is there some truth out there that they don't want us to see?About the latest departure from the county,do you think that mayby there are things that these guys don't want coming out?Just a thought.

timerick — June 18, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Hawkeye answered what the problem is - Jim responded to someone else's comment, and then I responded to Jim's - in the example I noted. I'll try to remember to avoid that. Thanks.

Timerick - There is at least that one thread where it says there are more comments, but it won't open. I'm curious about that too - I could read them earlier yesterday. I suspect there's some blocking going on - Mike Briggs used to play that game with me. Sometimes logging out of facebook will let you see the remarks.

roger — June 19, 2013 at 5:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nope. I went back to the article on the House not funding the CRC while logged off facebook and still can't go further. Mike Yancey comments, and has a few responses. There's a note saying 27 more comments, but when I click on it this changes to 14 more comments, but nothing shows.

I remembered my other post that disappeared - the opinion poll on the baseball team. I'd responded to someone who asked whether Marc Boldt not supporting this effort gave us David Madore, saying Nope - It was light rail, and Boldt not taking a firm stand for a vote. Harold Olsen has since posted a similar response, so I replied to him instead. I'll check back later to see if it's gone - It's still under a thread started by the person I originally responded to.

roger — June 19, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Huff Post article on SNAP and other benefits is fairly noninformative, but it links to another article that spells out the inane content of some of our laws. For example, owning a car affects eligibility. However, NOT owning a car, especially in rural areas, leads to even greater hardship.;=3965

roger — June 19, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Crosscut's Knute Berger has a great review of a book on Seattle's monorail project by Dick Falkenbury.

Falkenbury asks these good questions:

"Why can't Seattle get things done? What is the barrier to innovation? Is consensus killing us? Why does every proposal lumber toward the finish line carrying more baggage than it started with? "

He continues with these thoughts:

"The Seattle Monorail Project," he proclaims, "was killed by leadership who could not let go of the traditional way of rewarding powerful factions with jobs and contracts. The leadership refused to back away from the past and seize the future. They could not accept a new way of doing things. They lost their mojo."

Substitute "Seattle Monorail" with "CRC Light Rail" and we have a prescient view of what critics will say about Clark County leaders in years to come.

Read the full book review here:

[link text][1]


manthou — June 19, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**CraCrazy-High Times: The Rise of Hash Oilzy-High Times: The Rise of Hash Oil**

Meet the golden goop that gets you cosmically baked

Read more:

nailingit — June 19, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know Nail some people think I am half baked already with out any goop.

timerick — June 19, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I went back and looked at the article and can't see your post or Harold Olson's.It shows more posts but won't let us see them.But you can read Yanceys!!

timerick — June 19, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — June 19, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.

To Hell with what people think.

Turn the heat up to 420, stir public opinion once in awhile, and serve with s'mores mixed with a dose of reality. :)

nailingit — June 19, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This story reminded me of Drift's & ELISI'S exchange. Natural "News" has been in the forum before and refuted. There are many false info conspiracy National Enquirer type publications out there for those who want them. Some want for entertainment. But those who garner "info" from them are doing themselves a disservice.

This is what it can lead to.

**Stella Tremblay, New Hampshire Legislator, Emails Whole Legislature About Boston Marathon Conspiracy**

The New Hampshire state legislator who has claimed the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing has emailed her colleagues with what she says is evidence to support her allegations.

State Rep. Stella Tremblay (R-Auburn) on Wednesday used her state account to email the entire 424-member state legislature a message titled "Follow Up Reports," which included a series of links that she says showcase why the federal government is behind the April attack.

The links include the video that Tremblay has said initially drew her attention to the issue, along with videos from conservative commentators regarding ties between an uncle of the bombing suspect and a retired CIA officer. Tremblay told her colleagues that she is seeking more information.

"Have you seen ANY main stream media doing a follow up on these stories? I have not," Tremblay wrote. "I just connect the dots. Apparently, it is very dangerous to seek truth, or ask questions."

**Tremblay first made her claims in April, when she posted on *Glenn Beck's* Facebook page that she believed the federal government was behind the attack. She later reiterated those claims and questioned whether Jeff Bauman, a bombing victim who lost both legs in the attack, was actually injured, because he was not "screaming in agony." She later apologized to Bauman but said she wanted to visit him to see if he did in fact lose his legs.**


It is unclear why Tremblay, a second-term lawmaker with *ties to the tea party*, chose to email the entire legislature about this issue. Tremblay did not return a request for comment. She has also removed her phone number from her legislative homepage and another phone number listed for the representative has been disconnected.

nailingit — June 19, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit - We had hash and grass oil back in the 60's/70's. I wasn't a fan - There was such a thing as getting too high. Comatose didn't strike me as fun. I felt the same way about Thai stick and the black Nepalese hash. A good top drawer Mexican (like Oaxacan) couldn't be beat for just having a good time.

And what's with the Archies? Better put that bowl away for a while!

roger — June 19, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - I see where you were pointing the problem out to Suarez. There had to be some sort of glitch with the system - If you sort the order of the comments the ones that are shown stay the same, just in a different order.

roger — June 19, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I found this Berger comparison to the CRC most appropriate --

"A new Seattle monorail would not have been as cheap and easy as Falkenbury imagines, nor as successful. But his criticism that it became worse once the "experts" took over is resonant with other current state and city projects: the Columbia River Crossing, the Seattle waterfront plan, the downtown tunnel. One of the appeals of expanding our streetcars is that it revives a bit of the quick-and-dirty solutions of another era.

When the CRC got so far into trying to design the perfect bridge that met all the political demands they lost focus and control. It's why so many of us don't want to hear the Moeller argument that we can't go back and start over - It's better to take another 10 or 20 years and do it right, instead of having the equivalent of a 1 mile monorail that's just an overpriced tourist attraction because all the experts wanted to build a mega-billion dollar monstrosity.

roger — June 19, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- We had hash oil available back in the day also. A good vintage Primo oil sounds great. Remember, comatose is a state of mind!

*And what's with the Archies? Better put that bowl away for a while!*

Sgt. Friday's comment @ 1:00 inspired me.

Besides, Veronica can flat out get down!

nailingit — June 19, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Yeah. You and I just proved that "confirmatory bias" is real. :)

I try to work on it. Most of the population has never heard of it. We all succumb to it.

manthou — June 19, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Illusory correlation due to stereotypical beliefs leading to false associations? Don't forget - We must check our own analysis to ensure a paradigm structure isn't affecting the outcome.

Or some such thing. I sidetracked into this when preparing lesson plans for my EO trainers on stereotypes, prejudices and -isms several years back.

roger — June 20, 2013 at 5:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: :)))

On another note, I am watching Team ClarkForward with interest. I saw Tiffany Couch holding up one end of the sign yesterday behind Kimsey and Stuart. Made my heart warm and I am NOT being sarcastic.

If this organization can successfully bring together citizens of diverse political backgrounds to work for the good of all, I am on board. There are talented people out here with good ideas to make Clark County a better government.

I am so tired of the polarization and inertia.

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou -

A lot of these discussions come down to what we see as an ideal future for the area and who we're building it for.

One of the more compelling arguments for light rail is that we have to plan a transportation system that meets the needs of our children. That's a wonderful argument - parents are usually willing to sacrifice so their children can do better. But is it a valid argument? We are a transient society - and have been so at least since the '70s. We were being told those many years ago that the fundamental nature of our country was changing - that we would no longer see several generations of the same families living in the same small area. I could look around my small town in PA and see the truth of that - The factories were all closing or moving, and my friends were starting to drift away. That town is dead - the only local town that's thriving is Lewisburg, due to the presence of Bucknell Univ and the money spent by the junior Ivy League crowd there.

Light rail is a transport system across the river; the intent is to reduce auto traffic, parking requirements, etc, in Portland. What will it do for here? If designed as a commuter rail - meaning up the main corridors to where people live - it would lead to more population growth and residential building. Running it into downtown Vancouver supports that the real reason (here) is to support that vision of building a real city there - The Gramor/Waterfront Development project, and a couple of others.

And now we get back to just who we're building that future vision for. I don't see it as being for our children, but rather for attracting people from somewhere else - like Tim Leavitt from Yakima. The population I see here on the east side still wants single dwelling houses, quiet and safe neighborhoods to raise children in, softball leagues playing over in Fern Prairie, and that sort of "ideal" suburban life. The Portland culture is fine - in Portland.

So, you're correct - Bias is driving much of the conversation.

roger — June 20, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.

Team ClarkForward sounds great so far. Will you run for a freeholder position?

Take note, Gov Chris Christie started his career as a freeholder. It could explain in part, some of his diverse views, to include extending a hand of bi-partisanship at times.

It's great to see strides are being taken in this direction.

The country/County will have a lot of healing to do as this Teabagger phase of the GOP is dwindling.

nailingit — June 20, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: No way. My experience in running for Democratic state delegate (successfully) was my first and last foray into politics. It is expensive and difficult to be in the spotlight. I prefer to support others from behind the scenes.

There are many, many good people on the R and D sides of the aisle who will make great Freeholders. I cannot wait to see who puts their hats in the ring. Temple Lentz is one, I think, for sure. We do need a sense of humor in the mix. :)

I don't think the extremes on the Right or Left will do well in this election. Most of us, if one were to ask, are sick of the polarization. There is a little truth in both sides and it benefits more people when we can compromise.

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:49 am: There are such good arguments for and against light rail, for sure. We bring our own life experiences to the debate.

I am big city-raised. Rode the elevated trains with my brothers to and from school, to ball games, to museums, to stores, plays, and movies. Not once were we harmed or threatened.

But Chicago and NYC are stacked housing. Clark County is spread out. I get the difference. Will Vancouver become more stacked if light rail comes in? You bet. Just look at the new apartments and condos that have been built in the last year or so on Interstate Avenue on the LR line.

Light rail will change the culture and look of Vancouver. Some think it will be for the better. Others do not.

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 9 a.m

Have you seen the new apartment building going in next to the old city hall in downtown Vancouver? It's huge, and there will be storefronts included. I think it's in anticipation of LR downtown.

hawkeye — June 20, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: That is Elie Kassab's Prestige Plaza. It was supposed to be condos and he changed that to apartments when the economy took a dive. The construction was delayed for a couple of years and finally it is going up quickly.

It has been in the works for several years, but I am guessing he anticipated light rail. He is a LR supporter.

I don't know what he will be charging for rent, but parking spaces will be at a premium.

manthou — June 20, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou the apartments are going to be a mix of low rent and medium rent.I don't think they are going to be condos either.He got a huge tax deferment through the city and state just like Angelo's got for theirs by Esther Short Park.Also I heard today that the Riverview Bank building on Washington sold to Angelo's including the parking that the city paid for years ago.I guess the old saying of them that got also gets.I think that Angelo is also looking at the LRT because it is supposed to go south on Washington I believe.

timerick — June 20, 2013 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yo Nailingit, this is just for you. You You devil worshipper! (according to this).

luvithere — June 20, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Don Benton is in the news even MORE! I always heard he was a tough guy, now we hear he's a big cry baby because a woman is picking on him. This guy needs to go!

hawkeye — June 20, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — June 20, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.

:)) Dude sounds like Rush, Santorum and Swaggart rolled into one!

Our Negro Kenyan Born Muslim Commie Prez sure can stir up controversy.

nailingit — June 20, 2013 at 11:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“At one point during her uncontrollable tirade, I was actually afraid that she may even physically strike me,” Benton wrote to Hunter Goodman, secretary of the Senate. “It was a very uncomfortable feeling. I have been on the receiving end of many heated comments over the years, but I have never before felt the threat of physical violence.”

You have to be kidding-right? Amazing stuff! :)

Man I'm glad this didn't come from a Democrat! :))

A real Girly Man! :))) Man Cow!

Have at em' Ann!

nailingit — June 21, 2013 at 12:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I remember Kassab requesting that million dollar tax deferment. Angelo and Kassab are golden boys with the city for sure. Someone has to replenish the general fund if developers are exempt. Guess who that is? :)

hawk and nailingit: Don Benton is the gift that keeps on giving to the Columbian. I probably would swear at him, too, if I had to spend more than 10 minutes with the clown. What a cry baby. Reading his emails reminds me of mediating middle school girlfriend battles: Susie and Ellie, I am gonna change your seats until you learn to get along......

What a laughing stock that man is. Waaaaaa! It was Ann's fault, don't punish ME!

I have seen the guy in action: he invented cocky and arrogant and many women consider him a misogynist pig. I cannot believe we are paying that guy's salary for anything beyond septic tank cleaner.

Didn't he try to file a defamation suit against Tim Probst? He is a public figure, for God's sake! If he cannot take the criticism, he should bow out.

I am rooting for Ann: tell it like it is, sister, and let him have it.

Clark County is the laughingstock in Olympia: Benton's colleagues cannot believe he actually was handed such a critical job.

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I like Ann - I said so before, and this just confirms it with me. Dropping a few "F-bombs" when going off on Donald works for me!!!

I'm having a real problem understanding Benton's recent actions. He's a key player in a Senate "Majority Coalition" which is engaged in one of the more important policy wars in recent State history - Everything he's been doing lately seems to bring discredit on that effort.

I'm thinking he needs a brain scan - His erratic decision making processes could be indicative of a tumor.

Or just maybe he's got his own agenda....

roger — June 21, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: There is a reason he lost his Republican leadership role. Benton is a troublemaker and divider.

It is only a matter of time before a Clark County employee files some sort of harassment charge against this creep. He is a button-pusher and very clever how he does it. When he gets caught, he blames the victim. Sinister, sneaky stuff. Ugh. He makes me ill.

I look forward to what criteria will be used to evaluate his job performance.

I like Ann, too. She apologized. He is pushing the limits in an attempt to gain sympathy and it is blowing up in his puffy little face.

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: your concern about Benton's gray matter function reminds me of my concerns over Mielke's apparent cognitive decline. A couple of years ago, I was genuinely concerned about his memory lapses and suggested an evaluation. He seems to have sparked up in the head department lately, which makes me wonder if he is laying off the hard sauce. :)

Better health through better living.......

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 5:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Every time government entities enter into confidentiality agreements before any negotiations My ass hurts. You see I have this hangup about secret palaver between them.

The CRC is not saying how much we are giving three businesses for the bridge height snafu. Now we have the city and the NPS in negotiations for who will run the museum. Please tell us why.

As far as I can see it bodes ill for the tax payer. It has every time.

JohnCasey — June 21, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see that DB is bringing out the best of people once again. I agree there should be decorum practiced on the floor. After all it used to be civil even when they disagreed. You know all those flowery comments used just before they call you an idiot in so many words. With a smile.

The last ten years or so has seen a shift in this practice. Both at the state and federal levels. Younger members come in and they see no need to be civil. They act like a bull in a china shop.

Mr. Benton has ruffled feathers on both sides of the isle. Alright he's flat out pissed 'em off. I think Ms. Rivers is just calling B.S. Yes, she was wrong in using cuss words. But I can see her side also. What are ya gonna do? She probably reached her boiling point.

Using curse words just shows me that that person doesn't have a firm grasp of the English language. Dammit!! We all do it. But when you are in the public eye, as a rep, then you have to reign it in no matter how frustrated you are. Even in the heat of the moment you should show some class. But like I said DB is a lightening rod for abuse. He almost demands it with his piss-poor attitude.

JohnCasey — June 21, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I saw this YouTube on The Stranger this morning. LOL.

For all you Clark County employees of the female persuasion, as well as our long-suffering legislators of the same gender, behold the Feminist Make Up Tutorial.

It will protect you against the likes of Donnie B:

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's try that embed again:

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Someone at the Columbo must'a pushed a button. On my browser links are no longer "hot" and videos are not shown in a pane.

Drift — June 21, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: They want to discourage traffic being diverted to other media sources. :))

With The Oregonian's death rattle, the Columbian is seeing an opportunity......Keep all us C news consumers captive, perhaps?

The ONLY time I have ever been deleted here was when I linked to a Vancouver Voice article that scooped the C.

Lou's reason to me? We don't give free advertising to competitors. :)

However, when he was being interviewed by national TV news, you can better believe we had a party of links all over Press Talk. :)

Just kiddin' with ya, Lou. Who loves ya?

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey: Good points you make. Keep your posts coming. :)

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow how people are jumping on Benton for bringing this to lite...Mr. Benton is just taking the Prudent steps any of us would if our neighbor was cursing at us or we felt some type of physical or verbal threat.

Nail- You probably would have B444H slapped her or pistol whipped her might have been more like it huh???It's always easier to do something you know is wrong and ask for forgiveness later.. Isn't this typical of not only our elected officials but so many people in todays culture..If it's wrong it's wrong plain and simple. Oh yaeh I'm sorry that I hurt someone while I was DUIII but I'm really sorry.. You liberals want it both ways... On another note I like it when people complain about something but don't want to be a part of the solution.. It's difficult to be in the spotlight.. Oh my are we pompous.. Can't handle the fire get out of the kitchen... Maybe got your tongue lashed too many times by someone just a little smarter than said one..

vanwadreamer — June 21, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's back!!

soapbox4u — June 21, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.

I think they broke their computer again. I added a link to their own article when I wrote about Butthead Benton but it didn't work either. I'm sure they are "working on it", ya, right.

hawkeye — June 21, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Glad the Columbian is still going strong, in spite of the server glitches, or whatever. Family, not corporate owned, like the good ol' days.

Go check out Temple Lentz's list of words we can use to describe Don Benton without using profanity on the Daily 'Couve when you get a chance. I laughed out loud. When you do, come back here and tell me which was your favorite.

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Daily Couve vindicated Ann's choice of expletives. Scroll down to the last article, where God visits a County Board meeting to correct David. Near the end, God uses that same word (obviously out of frustration, and I'm sure He apologized to all later in the meeting) when countering one of David's arguments.

I enjoy most of Temple's writing - enough so that I subscribed.

roger — June 21, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John Casey,

I am completely disgusted that The Columbian is making no effort to cut through the B.S. to find out what and how much the mitigation being offered is. First we hear it's confidential, and then that they don't want knowledge of dollars offered to one company to affect another's position. This is our money they're offering up - we should know the details as they occur and BEFORE a legally binding agreement is entered into. The C has become little more than a mouthpiece for the CRC - I can see why Andrea moved on.

roger — June 21, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Those are great words to use for Benton. I like the second to last one.

Benton. The gift that keeps on giving (to the Dems).

luvithere — June 21, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Swiss banking and hidden offshore accounts is the big leagues - The C is still wailing and gnashing their teeth over the loss of a few hot dog sales when that nothing league ball team ended up in Hillsboro, in a stadium $10 million cheaper than what they wanted to build here. Maybe if our locals weren't always so hell bent on having the biggest and bestest of everything (my CRC dig), we who foot the bills wouldn't get so riled up.

roger — June 21, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 3:59 p.m

Chicken-Frying Goatee Peddler

I looked for your post again for the link but couldn't find it but I just Googled it and found it anyway. I also read the story where Ann tells her side. Sounds to me that he's a stalker and a real pig that won't take NO! for an answer. I'll bet he was a real treat to date as a young man.

Even though I'm not a republican, I support Ms. Rivers and think she's a real straight shooter.

Another thought just occurred to me, just what is it that M&M; see in this creep, seems like he's the anti-Madore.

hawkeye — June 21, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*slapped her-pistol whipped her-might have been more like it huh???*(sounds familiar!!!)-*ask for forgiveness- I hurt someone while I was DUIII- liberals-Oh my are we pompous-Can't handle the fire-your tongue lashed...*

vanwa- You okay??? The Lord told me you might be feeling better. I gotta report back. What should I say?


The Drama continues! Look for the gang of eight-(the number of benton supporters) to vilify any and all criticism towards this bumbling ogre.

What a Girly Man Don is!

I hope he isn't packin'. This guys own shadow might cause him to draw down.


I said a few weeks ago I liked this Ann Rivers gal. We need politicians standing up to others in their own party when needed, both Right and Left.

Of course it's always nice to see Republican leaders disputing each other. It usually means someone is either having a thought or developing a moral compass...but not always and it never lasts.

Red on Red crime!

manthou — June 21, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.

Mewling Foot-Licker, although Churlish Boor was close!

nailingit — June 22, 2013 at 12:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My God. This Benton Girl takes the cake!

nailingit — June 22, 2013 at 12:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — June 22, 2013 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I remember reading somewhere that Benton literally backed Annette Cleveland into a corner as a physical intimidation tactic not long ago: intentionally invaded her personal space in a threatening way. Was it on the FB comments? I will have to do some digging.

How tall is Ms. Cleveland? If she is 5 feet I would be surprised.

Annette seems to be trying to stay out of this mess. I wish others would come forward, however, to expose this creep for who he is: a bully.

He will do the same to employees at Clark County, I guarantee it. The blowhard is a short timer there. Even the likes of Kelly Hinton or Lew Waters are not supporting him on this one.

"You don't have to hang a bell on a fool."

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

See Manthou, you cannot move. There is too much fun to be had in Clark county. Our politics got to be the grounds for many chuckles in the rest of the state.

Ann Rivers called Benton a piece of... Priceless, absolutely priceless. So now he turns out to be a creep on top of being incompetent.

I like Ann, was at some forums back when she ran. Impressed me then, impresses me now. I am wondering if more will step forward to tell a few Benton stories. Once the first few harassment suits are filed here in his local office, we might finally see his political demise. One can dream.

luvithere — June 22, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ann should file a restraining order against this "piece of ...." . That would really be funny, something I'd almost pay to see. Ann walking around the Senate and Donnie having to stay 300 feet away from her. Priceless.

The guy creeps me out, his gap toothed smile and smarmy nature. ***There it is!!!! That's it!!!! That's why he and Madore are so close! They are BOTH used car salesmen!***

hawkeye — June 22, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I had a creepy uncle-in-law once. He was a small time banker back in the sixties. He always dressed in three piece suits and smoked a cigar. He got his hair cut once a week and smelled of cheap barbershop cologne. He even looked similar to DB.

He tried to run for office once and his creep factor was so far off the scale he couldn't even get his name on the ballot. It turns out he was a 'sick' uncle and was accused of molestation in the family. He got himself shot by one of the victims.

I bring this up because DB's actions towards Ms. Rivers. I am NOT saying he's a sicko but his actions speak louder than words. His intimidating moves tells me he probably was picked on as a child. He became a bully out of some sort of fear of being bullied first. And his actions towards women is very telling. I say the man has some deep seated issues and probably shouldn't be in public office.

Now these are just my opinions and my own observations through the years. But when you start adding up all the little things it seems to make sense to me. He will be under a microscope for ever and well it should be. As my folks would say 'he's a sneaky little ...

JohnCasey — June 22, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I haven't flown commercial for over 15 years. When I flew I had to put up with jerks who couldn't handle their booze.

Now we have a whole new class of idiots. They think they are so important that just one flight without their phone glued to their ear is just not acceptable. They feel they can disrupt a whole plane load of passengers for their own self gratification. And airlines are caving in to this. If you feel the need to talk on your cell phone in public anywhere or anytime then you are not so important, you are just another idiot in the sky. Give it a rest. Let others enjoy the flight and for Christs sakes don't let the booze get to you.

Flying used to fun but now it's akin to taking a bus with a bunch of parents with screamin' kids.

JohnCasey — June 22, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I must admit, our homegrown Clark County politicians ARE entertaining. Clackamas County, our former home for 20 years, is self-imploding now, too, and the City of Damascus is on suicide watch. Even our former Canadian neighbors (where we lived for 5 years) have warned us: no sense in moving back. It's bad here, too.

There is no utopia.

And there is no dumb-a$$ vaccine, as Jimmy Buffet says. :)

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I have to add this: You KNOW that M and M, plain and peanut, are part of the good ol' boy network that don't believe Benton has a problem with his behavior.

They circle the wagons, protect their own and blame the victims who stand up to this churl.

Just watch when they are asked by the press. See what they say.

Crony cowards.

Keep the heat on these turkeys, Columbian. It is what you do best for the public good. :)

And I DO believe Benton will slip up and harass an employee at Clark County, if he has not already done so. There needs to be a self-help group for victims of his hostile work environment so they can band together as a class. No joke.

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ann Rivers' apology to Benton and their fellow caucus members was mature and gracious. It seemed sincere to me.

How Benton responded to her apology speaks volumes. He refused to accept it and called it "hollow." Most reasonable people would have and it would have ended there.

This is a snake who only wants to keep the controversy and fight going for political gain. He wants the publicity.

His thinking error? That folks will buy into Benton-as-victim and that folks will believe Ann Rivers is the aggressor.

False on both points, Donnie.

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I think you are wrong about the M&M; boys.They know Benton has a problem,but are looking the other way.They know they can get Benton to do any and all bidding for them.But I do believe like you do that it is going to come back and bite them on the butt.I really did think that Madore was a lot smarter than to pick someone like Benton.I see I was wrong.Our only hope now is for Stuart and Kimsey to take a stand and stop some of this.I have known Gregg Kimsey and his father for over 30 years.Gregg is a lot smarter than to allow this to carry on much longer if he can help it.

timerick — June 22, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think that except for a few die-hard, head in the sand, he is great as he is against CRC supporters of Benton, people see him now for what he is. Madore And Mielke tolerate as he will do their bidding. I don't think Madore has it in him to admit to errors. Doubt Rivers will be seen as Aggressor, that honor belongs to him., Manthou.
How did we ever get so ignorant in this county to vote such people into office???

luvithere — June 22, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I do have to say, I am heartened by the fact that I see nobody yet coming to his defense. wonder what he hears in private from his buddies in Olympia. Does he have any buddies left?

luvithere — June 22, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I understand your perspective and think your point about Benton being a puppet of M and M is spot on. I have worked with Greg Kimsey, too, and think he is a treasure for Clark County. Ethical and full of integrity. I would be thrilled to help him get to an elected administrator position at Clark County, if we go that route. There would be no one better. I am an enthusiastic supporter of Clark TeamForward, too. It is solution-focused and positive, and brings many good ideas together from a diverse group of talent.

luvithere: I do think that most voters do not do their homework, or cannot do their homework, if you get my drift. Decisions are made based on emotion and not facts. Sound bites are King. Digging deeper? Too much work for most.

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — June 22, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

I wasn't aware that there was an airline that will allow the use of a cell phone during flight. I agree, though, that it would be totally rude and irritating for anyone on a plane to use a cell phone for more than a minute or so. I think I would have to complain.

hawkeye — June 22, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Huge speculation that I want to share with you all:

Do you think that Temple Lentz will be writing a column for The Columbian in the near future? Laird is retiring (will miss you, John).

I think it would be a boon for the C.

Just wondering....

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 22, 2013 at 11:26 a.m

It wouldn't surprise me if Lou was courting her but I doubt that she would agree to the amount of restraint she would be subject to.

hawkeye — June 22, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not happy for journalists laid off at The Oregonian. Not happy about the corporatization of this newspaper.

Happy for the opportunity it presents to The C. Bittersweet opportunity, for sure.

Poynter has a great article, however, about what this might mean for The Columbian and other papers in this region:

[link text][1]


manthou — June 22, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

About Benton. The usual suspects are piling on Benton, but not a one of them/you were there, on any of the occasions of a Benton/Rivers clash; two of them apparently. The only thing for sure is that Leftists hate Benton and will sieze any opportunity to berate him. Considering that Rivers is also an R, it probably isn’t too surprising that Republicans are a little quiet on this one. I don’t know what the rest of the story is, but there IS more.

Here’s one thing that stikes me - from a March sixth article in the Willamete Weekly:

> My shoulders have gotten very broad and strong from being the only one saying, ‘No, no, no,’” Rivers says. “And now others are beginning to join me.”

Not sure, but I think Benton’s 16 years in the legislature, is a little more than River’s two and a half. I’m also not sure, but I’ll take a wild guess that Benton opposed the lite rail thing from the beginning, which for him, would have been his start as a representative in ’97. I believe the first public lite rail vote came up in ’95. Back then, even I recognized it to be a Leftist social engineering boondoggle and voted against the thing. Pretty sure Benton would also have opposed it. Seems to me, Benton has been in the trenches for quite a while now. River’s; not so much.

kn_dalai — June 22, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

While most of us weren't there to see this verbal donnybrook we got a pretty good handle on what was said. How ones longevity has anything to do with ones personal conduct to others is not a comparison.

Going back to 2002 DB missed 503 out of 7710 votes on bills proposed in the legislature. AR missed 48 out of 1811. My take on this is if I'm paying for them to be there I'm paying them to vote the way their constituency wants them to vote. There should be no reason to miss any votes unless it's a family emergency. Period.

When you have to convene 2 special sessions, to try and iron out the differences, then you are part of the problem. The state budget is an issue that has been known about from day one of the regular session. I say as our representatives you have fallen down. And you are costing us, the public, more money with the bickering.


JohnCasey — June 23, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey @ 6:05 am: Amen cubed, brother. Amen.

kn_dalai: You don't have to witness an altercation to make a judgment about how the persons involved respond to its aftermath.

You don't have to be a PhD clinical psychologist to see some disturbing patterns in Benton's behavior. Some of his supporters (who of note has stepped up publicly to defend him?), I suppose, will forgive him anything simply for his NO stance on just about anything progressive.

Reasonable Republicans see him for who he is: a narcissistic bully who brings shame to their party. He is so arrogant and self-unaware that he keeps putting the noose around his own neck tighter and tighter.

Which is fine with me. Have at it, Don: the state is watching you. The county is watching you. It is only a matter of time before you are shown the door.

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Crosscut's very excellent analysis of The Oregonian's dramatic changes:

[link text][1]


I anticipate that The Columbian will step up to fill the gap left by the O's reduced deliveries and changes. We will see more Portlandia land (tri county area) news.

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

First of all, John, my point was not who has been in the legislature longer, but that Benton has been a CRC detractor before Rivers was on the scene, and that I find it strange she, apparently, views herself as the progenitor of anti-lite rail sentiment. If so, that may ruffle a few feathers, and perhaps call other things onto question.

Secondly, Manthou, as far as the aftermath goes, it was Benton who went through proper procedure in fiing a complaint. I really don’t know the whole story here, but to me, filing a complaint and requesting a conference with a couple of newspapers, indicates that Benton was not trying to hide something, as might be expected of someone who was. River’s angry expletive deleted tougue lashing, is the result of more than just a brief discussion or two with Benton. I’m just wondering if it’s because of Benton’s personality in general, or something more specific. As I noted, since they’re both R’s, it really isn’t surprising that other Republicans are quiet on this one. BTW manthou, I’ve noticed that you have a propensity for calling anything D’s want to do as being progressive, therefore, anyone who says no is anti-progress. Seems just a bit presumptuous to me. Just another way of saying I’m right and you’re wrong.

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ann Rivers response to Benton was (as I see it) a response in frustration to a bully that just doesn't know when to stop. If you keep poking at someone, eventually that person will (and should) lash out in order to get that person to stop. Even if it's just to explain why he's wrong. As far as Benton and LR go, I have no idea how long he's been against it but I suspect it's been as long as Madore has been telling him to oppose it.

Benton's filed complaint is no more than a ploy to get himself out in front of the process and paint himself as the victim instead of the aggressor. Everyone knows a good offense is better than a good defense.

hawkeye — June 23, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, just what is it that Benton has been poking at/about?

A strong offense is a good defense I agree with, as I've mentioned this about others here before. But I'm not convinced that is what Benton has done here.

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 8:45 am: Bingo, brother. That is the reason for Benton's formal complaint.

kn: I actually believe that there are many "progressive" politicians in every party. I already have lauded Team ClarkForward as one good example of a progressive idea: government working together, using the best ideas from a diversity of viewpoints.

There is truth in all perspectives. We just have to cull out the best and brightest.

In spite of your certainty, you do not have a lock on "correct." To be fair, neither do I.

Your type of black-and-white thinking is what got us into a collective government impasse.

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Testing for clickable link usage...Testing for clickable link usage...Testing for clickable link usage...

nailingit — June 23, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn it!

nailingit — June 23, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Black and white thinking? While you're at it, just what progressive politicians are Republicans and what is it that makes them progressive? Since Ann Rivers is opposed to lite rail, she can't be one of them. Seems to me that leftists' ideas of what a good Republican should be is Democrat Lite.

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: I got the clickable link to work on the Crosscut article I posted just awhile ago.

Hey, to change the subject: anyone else following the tragic death of journalist Michael Hastings? He allegedly sent an email to colleagues the day before he died in that fiery car crash that his friends were being questioned by the FBI and that he needed to go underground for awhile.

Could be that he was suffering from paranoid delusions himself? Or could it be that our government would actually kill a US citizen journalist to send a chilling message to others who might be nosing around?

His wife must know something. He must have notes somewhere.

I am watching the story, trying not to jump to any conclusions.

As someone who has lost faith in our government's ability to honor citizen constitutional protections, nothing much surprises me any longer.

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: I vote for "moderate" Republicans. They know how to move legislation forward. If you call that Democratic lite, so be it.

There are Democrats who are Republican lite, then, I guess.

"NO" for no's sake is obstructive and gets in the way of getting the job done in Olympia and DC.

Just my opinion. I enjoy hearing yours. Would be boring without it.

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- Great example citing Team ClarkForward as a unifying progressive group. I know it can happen. There are smart folks on both sides of the aisle willing to improve the community they live in.

I wish the political numbers of those wanting to improve this town (and our Country) were a bit more even. As it stands, and by nature, Democrats and the policies we pursue, speak to a much brighter future for our kids and grandkids. Unless this paradigm changes I'll remain a Dem.

I saw your link and had hope! But alas! Non-clickable...

Another great write from Laird. I'm going to miss that guy. Temple would be a great choice! Her ability to point out the absurd, while being absurdly funny is unsurpassed! One of Vancouver's treasures.

I have followed the Hastings story somewhat. It sounds as though he was pretty troubled. Looking forward to hearing all the story. I'm guessing there are more than a few who would like to see Snowden end like this.

The world of Journalism has lost a good one. This much is McChrystal clear!

nailingit — June 23, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

> I vote for "moderate" Republicans. They know how to move legislation forward. If you call that Democratic lite, so be it.
manthou — June 23, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.

What kind of legislation? Tax increases, more government cradle to grave social welfare, Obamacare (or of course CRC lite rail)? If you want the whole loaf, settle for only half now in the name of compromise, then get the other half later.

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: "McChrystal clear": very clever. :)

kn: Well, I voted and campaigned for Gordon Smith (when I was an Oregon resident) because of his strong advocacy on mental health issues. His son died by suicide and he and his wife worked with schools to promote suicide prevention and education. The Garrett Lee Smith act was passed unanimously, but not well-funded. He also stood with Matthew Shepard's parents when they were grieving their gay son's tragic murder to promote anti-hate crime legislation.

I voted for Mark Hatfield for a variety of good reasons. He was a true statesman and knew how to work both sides to get the job done.

Locally, I voted for Peter Nortwick because I thought he had some good fiscal ideas, assessor experience and was appalled that his Democratic opponent had never voted in a local election. I voted for Greg Kimsey and Marc Boldt.

I actually voted for Rob McKenna in 2008 because I thought his consumer protection legislation and government open records support made WA a better place to live. I did not in 2012 because I saw him pandering to the far right when he challenged Obamacare, not unlike Tim Leavitt did with his no tolls bait and switch.

There are more examples. But these are boring enough. :)

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai & manthou:I think that both the words progressive and moderate have been used to the detriment of both parties.Most everyone wants to see our country advance to some kind of a higher degree.We also want to see it happen in both a progressive and moderate degree.There is to much ego involved in the politics of both parties.And along with the ego's comes money.Take both out of the question and we might get somewhere.

timerick — June 23, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good answer manthou.

Problem is for example; Huntsman is a Democrat's idea of a good Republican, and Kucinich and Sanders are good Democrats. This endorses a rather narrow view of the political spectrum. Now it's back to the loaf of bread thing. (Yeah, while Sanders is a self described Socialist and runs as an Independent, he caucasus and votes with Democrats.)

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I have two examples of what I would consider non-partisan politicians. Number one is Ron Wyden. I dare you to find a partisan bone in his body. He is there to help, nothing more, nothing less and he does a great job of it.

Not to a lesser extent, Chris Christie. I really think this guy is only looking out for New Jersey. He doesn't care what party he has to deal with, his focus is on his State. I admire that.

hawkeye — June 23, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wealth re-distribution right here in Amerika, Inc? The so called 1% have seen their wealth increase dramatically in the past decade-150% I think I read-while the wealth of the rest has tumbled. The middle class has really lost out. So yea, we re-distribute wealth, but only upward it seems. With social spending being slashed in the name of austerity, even less is to move downward.

mrd — June 23, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did you not read the story from Ann? Just in case, I'l give you the rundown.

"According to Rivers' account, Benton approached her April 19 on the floor of the Senate to ask her for more details about an effort affecting the Columbia River Crossing project. Both senators have opposed the transportation project as planned.

Rivers declined to discuss specifics, but Benton pressed her for more information. It was at that time that Rivers confronted Benton for allegedly spreading misinformation about her stance on the CRC to Clark County residents.

Rivers said she told Benton: "I know who you are, I know what you do, I want no part of you or a relationship with you. I will work with you in a professional manner but beyond that I want nothing to do with you."

Next, Rivers wrote in her documentation of the incident, "Don started laughing and I walked away to my floor seat where Don, a few moments later, followed me.

"I asked him to stay away from me and he said that he thought he should be able to address me," Rivers continued. "Again, I asked him to leave which he refused to do. Sen. Sharon Brown approached and asked Don for a discussion, which he refused. Sharon left and Don looked at me and repeated multiple times 'You are weird.' I told him I thought he was a piece of shit."

Benton is a predator. Plain and simple. The guy needs a shock collar.

hawkeye — June 23, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Hawkeye, I did read that.

Just what is the misinformation that Benton has spread about Rivers and why would he do that? I’m kinda curious about that. Rivers is not angry about being approached on the Senate floor, apparently, but by other things. Out with it. Exactly what.

Considering that they are both Republicans, and are aligned in opposition to CRC LRT, River’s statement that she would work with him in a professional manner, rings a little hollow considering that she refused to discuss specifics “about an effort affecting the Columbia River Crossing project”.

On the one hand, based on River’s account, Benton was overly aggressive, and if so, deserves to be chastised. But on the other, there’s Harry Truman’s admonition that “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”.

I really don’t know, but I’ve offered one thought on this a couple of times above. I get a little tired of all the piling on that goes on over selectively making assumptions about political foes and casting them in the worst possible light, even in terms of physical appearance, all the while thinking oneself to be open minded, when the case is anything but.

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You're correct that Don Benton has probably been fighting the CRC longer than anyone else. He should be considered a leader of that effort. However, it was Rivers who got that provision banning tolls on the I205 put in at the end of last year's legislative session, and she has been putting out a lot more info to the public explaining the problems with the CRC that Benton ever did. As a result, the opposition has grown tremendously over the past year. I'd say she's more than made up for coming to the party later in the game.

I'm in the 17th, yet can't get a response from Benton. Harris and Stonier reply to me. Both Rivers and King also reply, even though I make it clear up front I'm not a constituent. This doesn't exactly create a warm and fuzzy toward Benton.

I was at the 17th District meeting at Firstenberg a while back. Benton wasn't that interested in the CRC - He wanted to talk about gun control and a plan to improve education by focusing on developing reading skills in grades 1-3. (And that education plan made good sense, by the way - If you can't read, then your ability to master higher learning skills is probably going to be nil.) He never did answer my questions about the CRC - That little hired guy of his wouldn't read them, and glared (a bit) at me when I cornered Benton at the end and asked the questions. (He didn't really answer them directly - just confirmed he's fighting the project because it's bad for us. Whatever - I turned him off as soon as I figured he wasn't saying anything, and was having fun doing the hard stare routine back at little guy.)

Anyhow - My main point being that Rivers is much better at connecting with people thn Benton. Length of time in the fight doesn't matter anywhere near as much as quality of the effort put forth.

roger — June 23, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm also wondering how Monica is going to vote the remainder of this session. She voted against the House budget plan, saying her constituents didn't want new taxes. Interesting. Was this with the approval of the House Dem leadership to preserve a weak hold on her seat (she barely won), or did she truly buck her party leaders? And related to this, why isn't this seeming traitorous act being denounced by the 49th District legislators and The Columbian? It just reinforces that politics is a game of strategy geared toward maintaining power, rather than truly working for the people.

roger — June 23, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good comment about Rivers getting things going more than Benton could. I've just kind of wondered if that's caused some tension. I thought you had a favorable opinion of Benton after you met him? Different than you had expected. Something about the kind of guy you could see downing a few with, while shooting the breeze. Maybe I'm wrong.


The bigger news of the day is that Twinkies are making a comeback soon, in a store near you! Twinkies are great, but Snowballs are greater!

kn_dalai — June 23, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My spouse does contract work with the state on occasion and just got a letter from the department he often works with.

What did it say?

Get your invoices to us by June 26 if you want to get paid. Anything coming in after July 1 may take a long while to get to you.

They are obviously preparing for more than the end of the fiscal year. Never received such a warning before.

Will WA have to shut down services?

Does anyone care?

manthou — June 23, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Correct; I did find Benton to be likeable. He just wasn't saying anything while talking - which I took to mean he wasn't wanting to discuss the topic.

roger — June 23, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hard to say what it means. I'd it's say more of a cautionary note at this time. How was the letter sent - Registered? And is it possible there's some politicking going on - They want the contractors to start screaming bloody hell?

The latest in The C is that a Dem I don't know thinks they're close, but still have a few key issues to hammer out. That person says maybe tomorrow, with a bill on Wednesday.

Dept of the Army starts once a week furloughs on 8 July through the end of the year. I'm curious as to why Wash doesn't implement a similar approach. It would be painful, but not as bad as putting a lot of people out of work.

I'd say our State Legislators are playing chicken - who caves first?

roger — June 23, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC - I can read lips. Ann is saying "If that hand drops another inch I'm kicking your ass right here in front of the whole world."

A truce - They both realize they have a couple of fights that are much more important and require they work together.

roger — June 23, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know their respective histories but if I had to guess, I'd say Ann is a smart lady and can see B.S. coming a mile away. Benton is a bully and nothing more than a blowhard used car salesman. If anybody blows up at him, I'm sure it's well deserved.

hawkeye — June 23, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 23, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.

*It just reinforces that politics is a game of strategy geared toward maintaining power, rather than truly working for the people.*

Man. Criticizing politicians for being partisan. Then criticizing politicians, not only for being *non*-partisan, but saying saying doing so undermines the whole political process.

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

It's one thing to constantly criticize those in power.

It's another to be reasonable when doing it.

BTW, I'm in the 49th. Why should our local paper use your false premise of denouncing *traitorous* acts?

CREWMAN: Sensors indicate a large vessel approaching at warp speed. It's trying to avoid detection using an Independent invisibility cloak.

CAPTAIN: Our shields our up and the truth laser has decloaked it. I have it up on screen. It's Red in color, and appears to be Conservative in nature, lacking the necessary equipment to sustain life. We'll board her and teach new ways to move forward, so they may thrive as a race. We'll fight the shriveled ones who would have their world die with them.

CREWMAN: But Captain, won't that interfere with our mission's Prime Directive?

CAPTAIN: Our Prime Directive is sustainability for all. Not for a chosen few. After that..screw em'. If they wish to starve themselves we'll not interfere.

CREWMAN: I like Pot.

CAPTAIN: Me too.

YEOMAN: Me Three...

nailingit — June 23, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pardon the misspellings.^^

When it's all said and done. When the paid Hounds of Whinerville become best buds again, it's because this latest Republican debacle has reached a higher pay grade encouraging them not to embarrass the republican party any further.

Their platform does it enough.

And when it's all said and done, construction will begin on our new bridge with light rail. Conservatives will move on to their next pet project to bitch about, whether it be a ball park, transportation, education, etc., (anything that costs a dime) and we'll have to dig a little more into our pockets to ensure a better future for the upcoming generation.

I'm glad those who came before us were visionary. God knows a good segment of this generation lacks vision. At least they have a strong miserly view to justify it. :)

nailingit — June 23, 2013 at 11:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ralph Reed is getting rich again.

Change is hard for conservatives. (except when they are counting their money)

Lawmakers to lawbreakers. Let's show them the door in 14'.

**Conservatives Pledge To Defy Any Marriage Equality Ruling The Supreme Court Reaches**

"We stand together as Christians in defense of marriage and the family and society founded upon them," the letter reads.


"This Natural Moral Law gives us the norms we need to build truly human and humane societies and govern ourselves. It should also inform our positive law or we will become lawless and devolve into anarchy," the statement warns. "Redefining the very institution of marriage is improper and outside the authority of the State. The Supreme Court has no authority to redefine marriage."

While the letter ends with a vague threat that the signers must draw a line on the definition of marriage and will not cross it, the statement does not specify what the Freedom Federation intends to do if the Supreme Court rules in favor of marriage equality.;=Politics

nailingit — June 24, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gays-God-Guns-Abortion-Taxes. It's what drives the GOP. Not jobs. Not the economy. Not anything that doesn't drive their call for a religious socialization of America.

Wait till DM moves to Olympia..

**Texas lawmakers approve abortion restrictions**

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Republicans armed with Bible verses have given preliminary approval to some of the strictest abortion regulations in the country as time runs out on the Texas special legislative session.

Democrats were supported by hundreds of demonstrators as they stalled the legislation for 15 hours. Republicans voted to cease debate and vote early Monday morning. They still need to take another later Monday.

nailingit — June 24, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**The Great Illusion**

I SUPPOSE WE should be grateful to Linda Killian. Her new book collects in one place every clichéd and suspect empirical generalization about political independents. So in that sense—and only in that sense—it is a useful volume.  

Start with the premise of the book. It is that independents are all swing voters ready to move right or left politically—or in Killian’s feverish imagination, toward some inchoate centrist formation of the No Labels variety. This premise is based on the greatest myth in American politics: that independents are actually independent. They are not. As numerous studies have shown, the overwhelming majority of Americans who say there are “independent” lean toward one party or the other.

Call them IINOs, or Independents In Name Only. IINOs who say they lean toward the Republicans think and vote just like regular Republicans. IINOs who say they lean toward the Democrats think and vote just like regular Democrats.

Read more @

nailingit — June 24, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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