Open forum, March 25-31



The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your ID or register for an account at

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor John Hill --



Every state should be doing this....

**California's Gun Repo Men Have a Nerve-Racking Job**

California is the only state that takes legally obtained weapons away from citizens who are no longer supposed to have them. There are almost 20,000 such gun owners, state records show, including convicted felons, people under domestic violence restraining orders, or those deemed mentally unstable. “What do we do about the guns that are already in the hands of persons who, by law, are considered too dangerous to possess them?” California Attorney General Kamala Harris wrote to Vice President Biden after the shootings in Newtown, Conn. She recommended that Biden, heading a White House review of gun policy, look to California as a model.

Nationwide, as many as 200,000 people have lost their gun rights but keep their weapons, says Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California at Davis. Many states lack the ability to confiscate firearms because they don’t track purchases as closely as California, which requires most sales to go through a licensed dealer and be reported.

ELISI — March 25, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

the NRA sponsored a move to discontinue removing guns from household in Wa state where a domestic violence incident had occurred and succeeded. Seems strange. The article said about 3/4 of women that are murdered were murdered by an "intimate" and most were killed by guns.

also read were several Rep governors are changing their tune about accepting federal money for Medicaid. The weird thing about it is many states' legislatures are proposing to use the money to buy vouchers so the private insurance companies get a cut. The idea of that money going directly to patients, doctors, and hospitals and thereby by-passing corporate America is just unacceptable to many republican legislators.

mrd — March 25, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 25, 2013 at 8:04 a.m

Now that should be the number one most dangerous job on the list. I'm sure there is a producer somewhere pitching a reality show.

hawkeye — March 25, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 25, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

You are absotively posilutely a thousand-percent correct in your comment!!! Welcome to yet another way I find to wind down...the arts. I grab my sketchbook, my pens and go to town with drawing any time I want to escape the rat race. In the summertime when everything is in bloom and the critters are on the move, inspiration comes to play.

Does it matter if you produce a piece of art which someone would place a monetary value on it? Not at all. It's the satisfaction of the time and effort spent to create something you enjoyed.

goldenoldie — March 25, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I used to do quite a bit of pencil drawing. I can remember on more than one occasion showing a finished piece to a person, asking their opinion, and then to their dismay tearing it up and tossing it in the garbage.

"Why, on earth, would you do that?!"

"Because it's done. It served its purpose. You saw it only because you happened to have been here when I decided so. I spent two weeks on it. It gave back exactly what I asked it to. Now it's done. It's time to move on."

I do the same with written words.

Though I'm a bit puzzled many folks don't "get it" I don't agonize over it. If I did, then it would all be for nought. And that wouldn't do a'tall. Nope.

Drift — March 25, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*What will happen to all our writings?
holycrapola — March 25, 2013 at 1:53 p.m*

I saved writings from my grandmothers and their recipes.
I saved the poems my motherinlaw wrote, my sisterinlaw didn't want to keep them so I did.
Notes my mom wrote inside her cookbook I saved.
I saved them for my kids and grandkids. My daughter doesn't want them, my son does, so they will be passed on to him. Same as the antique cups and saucers, pitchers and the beer steins, wine carafe, and glasses from Germany, Scotland, Ireland, and England.

ELISI — March 25, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal share some deep inner thoughts well worth pondering lately. Nice job. You say *"time is finite for us while breathing, then who knows what happens. In a way, what a waste."* In another it a waste? Life is spontaneous just as the sun setting on that horizon changes. It is never the same for everyone but it is the way we adhere to that spontaneity of make our time on this planet (or even beyond for those who seek travel through space) the best we can make it. Regarding my grandfathers, I was never able to meet them. They both died when they were younger, but I heard stories about the both of them and have shared that information with my children...with the aid of photographs and scrapbooks tucked in with mementos.

What shouldn't be lost is the lessons learned by relatives who survived the Great Depression and WW-II. Both of these historic reminders greatly impacted their lives and we could all learn valuable life lessons from our parents/grandparents/great grandparents, even if it is through scrapbooks, genealogical societies and cookbooks. You'd be surprised at what you'd find tucked away in little notes in Grannie's favorite cookbooks and of course, her Holy Bible!

goldenoldie — March 25, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"A $585,000.50 bill for one night at a hotel is either the result of an unimaginable amount of room service, or, if you're a member of Vice President Joe Biden's posse, it's just another night in Paris."|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D288945

"The contract costs cover the entire range of support, including accommodations for military, communications, secret service staff, and other support professionals."

I wonder if any of those support professionals are from Colombia?

roger — March 25, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've always like the 'link in a chain' image when trying to view my place in infinite ideas, definitions, and possibilities. Sometimes with a bit of philosophy...or not. Or even sometimes when the going got rough and it helped.

Finding ways to view things bigger than my own self, and outside my own sphere of knowledge, is an ongoing quest, and may well fit into the 'chicken/egg dilemma'. But, sometimes it's just one more path to get a glimpse of infinite choices, turns in the road, and limitless futures. Gandalf says it best 'death is just another path...' even if it ultimately amounts exclusivly to pure energy, the driving force of the universe, and cannot be destroyed. So, yeah... eternal life is a link through seeds, either individually or collectively.

jacjak — March 25, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vietnam War (though Eisenhower's doing) was Kennedy, and escalated by LBJ. The war against the unions was a Kennedy initiative (carried out by RFK), as was the loosening of restrictions on corporations that started their exodus overseas.

Defense delayed the furlough notifications two weeks; there's something going on in DC that's causing them to think they may not be necessary. If the Repubs make too many concessions (if they're nearing a budget compromise), I'm thinking their days as a party are numbered. The only thing I can think of that would bail them out is businesses folding and unemployment going back up once the Health Care Act kicks into high gear in 2014.

One could argue that it was corporate America that made us what we once were (if you're meaning good economic times). And one could also argue the unions ensured the working class shared in the wealth. Complacency started the decline; those upstart Japanese showed they could make a higher quality product and sell it for less. Lawyers and insurance companies drove the cost of everything up - suing became a national pastime. But an unregulated Wall Street, with their constant invention of new investment models that made massive profits but were poorly understood by regulators, is what put us where we re now. And though I hate to say this (my 401(k) is starting to recover a bit), until we regulate the crap out of that operation, we're going to go right back to the bottom again. One problem, though - do we have anyone of relevance who isn't already owned by them?

roger — March 25, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — March 25, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.

We attain eternal life the only way we know how - through having kids, and pushing them to give us grandkids. And once we die, we no longer care.

Finding meaning in our lives is a bit harder. I'd say your chances of attaining something in this area depend on what gives you a sense of fulfillment and your access to whatever is needed to achieve it.

roger — March 25, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh - Gandalf was just an enabler, just as Merlin was in the Arthurian legends. It was first Bilbo and then Frodo Baggins that made great things happen. I suppose Tolkien had a message there.

roger — March 25, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stockton CA is filing for bankruptcy. They were spending like there's no tomorrow, building an infrastructure in hopes of attracting businesses. They built a beautiful downtown waterfront district with sports facilities and other amenities. Then the economy collapsed, and now it's Chapter 11 time. Do we really want to follow this same path here? We've been lucky so far; we're able to cover the loss the Hilton has caused. There will be no turning back once the CRC and the Waterfront Redevelopment projects kick in.

roger — March 25, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***Uh-Oh, could be trouble in paradise!!***

Federal investigators are now interviewing former Bachmann campaign staffers nationwide about alleged intentional campaign-finance violations. The investigators are working on behalf of the Office of Congressional Ethics, which probes reported improprieties by House members and their staffs and then can refer cases to the House Ethics Committee.

Former staffers tell The Daily Beast that investigators have allegedly asked about allegations of improper transfer of funds and under-the-table payments actions by Bachmann’s presidential campaign, specifically in relation to the campaign’s national political director, Guy Short, and Bachmann’s onetime Iowa campaign chairman, state Sen. Kent Sorenson. Questions directly about Bachmann, they said, have been primarily focused on what she knew about those men’s actions and when she knew it.

hawkeye — March 25, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bilbo Baggins -- "It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to."

roger — March 25, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Albus Dumbledore--"After all, to a well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." J.K. Rowling

This is fun, thanks. Need to reread the Robert Jordan 'Wheel of Time' series... one of my favorite 'reluctant hero' stories.

jacjak — March 25, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drft, I get your way of thinking.

In the past I threw writings and my poor attempts of various forms of art away. After all I felt they were for my eyes only. As I got older I began to think about what my children would have done with all the stuff I got rid of.

Now days I try to refine my writing to be as understandable to them for the future about how I felt at that particular time in my life. My art not so much. They inherited my eclectic taste in music and my deep passion for reading. Not just fiction but all matters of the written word.

I can build a piece of furniture or do an oil painting but my children don't know that because I stopped when they were toddlers.

The things I have passed on to them is a sense of their place and wonderment in this world. In my opinion I didn't do too bad. They both are contributing members of society and are very socially aware of the problems that face them every day.

What I'm getting at is this. If you do the right things in your life it will show up later when you see the children do their own right things. After all isn't that what it's all about? Oh sure, I still throw some things away but I find myself keeping more and more. When it comes time for them to divvy it up they will make their own choices. I'm sure some of it will be tossed but I know some of it will live on through them.

JohnCasey — March 26, 2013 at 5:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'd say we do a pretty good job of trying to kill ourselves just by going to the supermarket. And I'd like to put another #1 in there - sugar.

Was the page down today? I'm surprised Goldie and a couple of others didn't respond - I think they covered this topic once or twice before.

roger — March 26, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Uh-Oh, could be trouble in paradise!!*

hawkeye — March 25, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.

She must have reached out to Beck for help creating another conspiracy smokescreen. A major red flag she's dirty.


**Glenn Beck: Michele Bachmann Under Investigation Because She's Against Radical Islam (VIDEO)**

Glenn Beck suggested Tuesday that the ethics investigation into the erstwhile presidential campaign of Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) is retribution for the congresswoman's outspoken crusade against what she has called the threat of radical Islam.

"We have been sold to radical Islam," Beck said matter-of-factly on his Internet show. "It has infiltrated and we have documented it."

Beck continued, claiming that radical Islam is so powerful it affected the nonpartisan Office of Congressional Ethics, which, according to a Daily Beast report, is questioning former Bachmann staffers regarding "allegations of improper transfer of funds and under-the-table payments actions by Bachmann’s presidential campaign."

"You see what they're doing to Michele Bachmann?" Beck asked. "Michele Bachmann is under all kinds of ethics investigations now. Why do you suppose that is? ... She is uber-clear on what's going on. Uber-clear."

Read more @

nailingit — March 26, 2013 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gooooood mornin' peoples.

Roger, I had quite a busy day yesterday. Didn't have time to sit at the keyboard. The link you shared reflects exactly what I've been saying all along healthwise and have pushed for people to learn to make their favorite yummies from scratch. It always tastes better and you know what you're putting in your food.

I noticed you added "sugar" to the list. Good addition, roger. Here's some interesting facts...

According to the Canadian Center for Disease Control, the average Canadian consumes 26 teaspoons of sugar in a day. That isn't just by the spoonful. It's also in a lot of the prepared foods they eat. That's 21% of their daily caloric intake.

The American Heart Association recommends no more than 6 teaspoons daily.

Here's an interesting one...The American Diabetes Association stands by their claim that sugar is not the cause of type 1 or type 2 diabetes. Type 1 is caused by genetics and other unknown factors which trigger it. What causes type 2 diabetes is being overweight and eating foods which contribute to the weight gain. They do say though...that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 (including milk, catsup and salad dressings...check the ingredients). They recommend limiting their intake. Does that mean they should turn to diet drinks instead? Well, according to the link you provided, the answer is a big fat NO. Aspartame is a dangerous substance. The link I found is a good one for everyone to check out. You'd be surprised at where you find sugars in your food:

I could go on about whole body health, but I suggest people do the research themselves...check out a website on nutrition or contact a nutritionist. You'd be surprised at just who it is that is poisoning the people. A lot of it is due to self indulgence. So many health issues could be avoided if people would educate themselves about what they're putting in their mouths.

If people would take their health seriously, we wouldn't have an issue with "affordable" health care.

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 27, 2013 at 6:46 a.m.

I'm thinking the reasoning behind the skewed data is because the people are trying to look at the current economic picture as a positive move, but is what it is and no matter how they paint over the real picture, some of us can still see it. Others don't. Maybe the people that come up with the information to share think people aren't really noticing...or maybe that nobody really cares. The lights have been out for awhile, holyc...and that big door is about to shut behind 'em.

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc...another look at it...

We have to begin at a starting point in our new economy. If looking at it from that perspective, then appears the economy is improving. We're so used to looking at it from how it used to be compared to now...and it doesn't look too promising from our perspective.

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:14 a.m.

oopsie, I did a boo boo.

"""...that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 (including milk, catsup and salad dressings...check the ingredients)."""

Should have said

"...that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 (including milk as well as other foods like catsup and salad dressings also contain sugars...check the ingredients)."

Sorry about that.

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frick and Frack are micromanaging the County again.

Hawkeye: I like your FB idea to bring all the little homeless and lost kitties and doggies to Dave's place instead.

Columbian: Keep up the good watchdog role on these two clowns. I am going to do my own FOIA to see what Clark County's defense costs are when their stalling and shenanigans require legal counsel.

No one will want to contract with the County with this sort of silliness. If it weren't for the fact that vulnerable pets are at stake, I would encourage the Humane Society to take their services elsewhere and see how Dave and Tom solve that issue.

manthou — March 27, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Study: Health law to raise claims cost 32 percent**

A new study finds that insurance companies will have to pay out an average of 32 percent more for medical claims under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul.

What does that mean for you?

If you are uninsured, or you buy your policy directly from an insurance company, you should pay attention.

But if you have an employer plan, like most workers and their families, odds are you don't have much to worry about.

The estimates from the Society of Actuaries could turn into a political headache for the Obama administration at a time when much of the country remains skeptical of the Affordable Care Act.

The rest of the article can be found here..;=HOME&TEMPLATE;=DEFAULT&CTIME;=2013-03-27-07-01-19

ELISI — March 27, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 27, 2013 at 8:28 a.m

You are absolutely right. Who in their right mind is going to want to sign a contract with the County with these idiots running the show. I thought David was supposed to be this "smart businessman" and knew about contracts and such but it turns out he's a bigger idiot than the guy he replaced. Also, I'm still waiting for those damn floodgates to open and bring the thousands of jobs to the county but I don't think he knows where they are anymore or forgot how to open them.

It's all very frustrating.

hawkeye — March 27, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice article. I do have a question though. Don't you think that if you have a company plan that they won't pass on some of this increase to you by several means, higher ded, higher co--pay or even raising your share of the health Ins cost? Make no mistake the "Affordable Health care Act" will cost each tax paying person more money to implement and "Manage" oh and I forgot to add. We will pay mor in taxes for this plan

vanwadreamer — March 27, 2013 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And just where would they walk to..*

**Huckabee:Evangelicals Will Walk if GOP Backs Gay Marriage**

Mike Huckabee warns that Republicans risk losing the vote from evangelical Christians if they back away from their opposition to gay marriage.

Last week, Ohio Sen. Bob Portman announced he has reversed his position and now supports gay marriage.

In an exclusive interview with Newsmax TV, former Arkansas Gov. Huckabee — and ordained Southern Baptist minister — was asked if he sees the GOP ever pivoting and backing gay marriage.

“They might. And if they do, they’re going to lose a large part of their base because evangelicals will take a walk,” he responds.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com;_source=125BDTelegraph_Media_Group&utm;_medium=nmwidget&utm;_campaign=widgetphase1#ixzz2OlULFaaI

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.

It still amazes me. The people against gay marriage say that "they" will be negatively affected by gay marriage. But nobody seems to be able to tell me HOW! I read an interview by Ellen Degeneres the other day and she said her and Portia DeRossi had lived in their house for over eight years and none of their neighbors seem to be any worse off.

Any ideas?

hawkeye — March 27, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

“They might. And if they do, they’re going to lose a large part of their base because evangelicals will take a walk,” he responds.

more of a bluff than the truth. Were would they go? They can't be so ignorant they're unable to see that would split the gopers and hand virtually every national elections to the dems. However, we can hope.

mrd — March 27, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Any ideas?*

hawkeye — March 27, 2013 at 1:07 p.m.

hawkeye, those opposed cite biblically based morality as their main concern, at least from what I can tell. Personally I find gender based discrimination against our fellow Americans immoral, and people citing old testament fire and brimstone ignorant.

The same people believe we are a "Christian Nation." Though Jesus never denounced same sex, sex, they scour the old testament to validate their beliefs.

On the other hand, they seem to be quite tolerant of pedophiles and money changers, go figure!

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just finished listening to as much of State Rep. Monica Stonier's telephone town hall and was glad to hear she's working diligently to make sure the schools in the 17th Legislative District are working for the children...not their pocketbooks. Kind of a tall order but it's good she's the one sitting in Olympia for the schools.

She is also making a point of it to work on the issue of hunger, citing 17,000+ school children are homeless or are starving in SW Washington and continues to grow. That is so very sad.

Regarding her stance on the Columbia River Crossing...her reasoning for supporting it is right in line with her party of choice but she did say something which I give kudos for...she said that as questionable issues are brought to her attention, she will seek information regarding the matter before forming her conclusion. This was in reference to the letter sent by Representative Jaime Herrera to Ms. Boyd, director of the Vancouver CRC, asking why certain expenditure requests such as funding for the Hood River channel restoration, Lewis River channel restoration, repairs to the Steel Bridge and more which according to the discussion on the telephone town hall...has yet to be answered.

Why is that Ms. Boyd???

One last was worth the time to sit in and listen to the questions and answers. I urge others to listen in...maybe even ask a question if they have one, should they receive such a telephone town hall.

Just thought I'd share what I'd heard. Of course, some of my quotes are as I'd interpreted them, maybe missing a word or two. Anybody else listen in tonight???

goldenoldie — March 27, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Senator Benton and Rep Harris spoke at length on education (and to be honest, this surprised me).

Harris spoke the dollars side. He believes the State Court mandate that we must get education funded means that comes first, and then they can fight it out over what gets funded with what's left, additional taxes and fees, etc. Then Benton chimed and and said spend smarter - not necessarily more. I was expecting something that would be restrictive (like quit paying for illegals), but he came up with something that I can agree with. He noted that numerous studies have shown that if you aren't reading at grade level by completion of the third grade, your chances of academic success drop off drastically. He wants to spend to improve the elementary education process - and hold kids back if needed if they don't perform.

roger — March 27, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here are the SCOTUS audio recordings concerning Prop 8 and DOMA. I haven't listened to them in their entirety, (close) but Jesus H Christ these guys live in some weird f'ing bubble. Term limits for Justices should be 25 years max.

Somebody wake up Thomas.

My God.

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This just got posted so it doesn't have 75 Face Book hits yet.

They better have 50 folding chairs and a bottle of indoor sunscreen for these guys.

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 27, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.

Read the article on the anti-CRC get together; thanks for the post, Nails! We're going to win you over yet.

I'm encouraged that Senator Rivers will be there - it tells me the State Senate is still on board to stop the project if LRT isn't dropped.

They need to name the "experts" - I wondered at the C's apparent flippant way of noting them (in quotes) until I went to Stop CRC website and saw they weren't mentioned by name. There are some people opposed to the project who are experts in their fields - Joe Cortright and Tiffany Couch to name two.

But why do we like to hold meetings when people are at work? This goes beyond just this topic - For example, C-Tran is notorious for holding public meetings on weekdays. Then they like to say "the community wants....", which is total baloney as the billpayers in the community were at work!

And here's a "softball" for Nails to run with. The Stop CRC website says there will be an open bar social from 4-6 p.m. after the speechifying. (Maybe just a rumor, but I heard someone has broken out the Special Reserve Geritol they had stashed away.)

roger — March 28, 2013 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 27, 2013 at 8 p.m.

I actually agree with Senator Don Benton regarding the methods necessary in order for the education funding to reach its highest potential. It's easier just to add funding to a budget, but there has to be a review to make sure the existing funding is getting the most bang for the buck and that any proposed tax will be used wisely.

Regarding the students... I agree. The problem with the current educational system is that they're in a hurry to get the kids through the educational process and get 'em out the door in time for graduation. I could give you several examples, current and past...but I'm sure you'd know someone who is or has gone through the same issues as has everyone else, so I won't get into how I know.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 28, 2013 at 5:28 a.m.

Hey, hey, hey now...let's stop with the wisecracks about Seniors. Age discrimination is illegal, you know. Geritol is for all ages. This is just a myth that it's only for Seniors. Naughty you. And the Seniors...they're not just opposed to the crossing project as witnessed at the latest "Moeller" rally hall proceedings at the ESD building. There were plenty of silver hairs there as well...mostly wearing their union colors, lol. (Of course, it's all light humor...just egging it on a bit, lol.)

Seriously, if you take a look at the FB comments, Roger...there's more of the younger generation showing up, voicing their concerns. Our word has definitely gotten out...brought more to speak up whether it be pro or anti light rail, pro or anti CRC. Just last night, I received a telephone call...***ONE ON ONE*** with a Washington State Senator and we talked for about a half hour regarding the crossing project, voicing my concerns and his responses as well as the latest information circulating about the CRC. That was definitely something I wasn't expecting and was pleased he took the time out to discuss the issue...and that was about two hours after the telephone town hall with Rep. Stonier. A busy night politically.

Regarding the's worth my time to stand up and shout in opposition of LRT. How 'bout you? Sadly, if it means no new bridges for awhile...well, that's how the ball bounces. If they planned it right the first time, the crossing project would be completed already but the damned special interest groups...the *"greenies"* as I call them (yes, I'm a *greenie* to an extent), pushed for an entire deck for 80 cyclists and 350 pedestrians per year as well as the failing light rail system whose ridership has taken a downturn since last April.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger...did you know those who stand in opposition to the CRC...those in government already have a rather extensive plan B to improve traffic/freight/shipping mobility??? It's one in which they plan to take immediate action, once the current plan is dead in the water...AND it's a lot more affordable.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

But why do we like to hold meetings when people are at work?

roger — March 28, 2013 at 5:28 a.m.

My best guess. I've noticed CRC opponents schedule meetings around Matlock marathons and before the average CRC opponent's bedtime of 7:30. 19:30 for slackers. Hooah!


nailingit — March 28, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If Moeller and Couch were to lend their expertise across the pond...

nailingit — March 28, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 28, 2013 at 5:28 a.m.

Regarding the time of day and the rally...speaking for myself and probably a lot of other people who could be there...I am there on behalf of my family...three in fact who cross into Oregon daily and the rest of us only on occasion.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yet another ridiculous statement discovered in the CRC website which to misleading:

*"The I-5 Bridge Replacement Project will make improvements to the Interstate 5 corridor which serves as the primary trade route from Mexico to Canada. "*

Anybody with a lick of sense knows the I-5 corridor from Canada TO Mexico is about 1,381 miles long. The segment of I-5 in the CRC improvement plan is 5 miles long and it sits squarely between the two I-5/I-205, a main bypass around the gridlocked section of the corridor which runs from 134th Street in Salmon Creek down to Oregon City. Any trucker who is familiar with the I-5 traffic and peak hour travel times will know to avoid I-5 from 134th Street to Oregon City and back.

Again...another losing argument by the folks who continue to back this ridiculously-extreme and costly current LPA plan.

More to come....

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Misleading CRC statement...

*"The replacement bridge design must balance the other transportation needs in the corridor, including the movement of freight and transit vehicles, as well as boat traffic on the Columbia River, and flight paths destined to/from nearby Pearson Field and Portland International Airport."*

If this is true, then why is it they haven't taken into account the freight mobility of river traffic from companies such as Thompson MetalFab??? Instead...they want it the height they've chosen and are steadfast in their choices. It's that *"to hell with ya"* mentality to the three companies mostly affected by the 116' height minimum they claim is the highest they can go for the bottom side of the bridge. Even the USCG states 116' is too low for their capabilities on the river east of the bridge.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit not all us are in bed at 7:30.I sometimes stay up till 8:00.Just a little humor.I am going to try to attend if I can.The timing of the meeting is not good for me as I don't close shop till 5:00.But since I am old enough for the open bar social I may be able to make it by 5:30.I don't think I have ever had a Geritol cocktail but I am willing to try one.

timerick — March 28, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Incorrect CRC Statement:

*"The current Interstate Bridge structures were built in 1917 and 1958, respectively. Wooden pilings supporting the piers extend into the river bed approximately 60 feet, but not to the rock of the Troutdale Formation approximately 200 feet below the surface. There is a risk of structural failure of the bridges in the case of a significant earthquake, which could cause the river soils to act as a liquid.*
*The Portland-Vancouver region is known to be seismically active. In 1962 a magnitude 5.5 earthquake struck the region, centered in east Vancouver. In 1993, a magnitude 5.6 earthquake in the Willamette Valley caused $28 million in damages. The region has historically been subject to much larger subduction zone earthquakes, the last of which occurred over 300 years ago."*

Where to begin...ah yes, the State of Oregon Seismic Vulnerability Report of 2009 which states that in the case of an 8.3 earthquake, very slight to moderate damage might occur. In the case of a 9.0, the increase in damage was minimal.

Secondly, in the 1993 earthquake...the Spring Break Quake, the damage mainly consisted of toppled chimneys and unreinforced masonry on walls and the dome of the Oregon State Capital Building, churches and schools. Otherwise, it was broken windows and minimal structural issues. There was no structural defect on the Detroit Dam at Detroit Lake and no structural defect reported on any bridges in Oregon as a result of the earthquake.

(The I-5 Bridges could be retrofitted estimated to be $120 million according to the ODOT website.)

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

let's try this once again...

Incorrect CRC Statement -

*The current Interstate Bridge Structures were built in 1917 and 1958, respectively. Wooden pilings supporting the piers extend into the river bed approximately 60 feet, but not to the rock of the Troutdale Formation approximately 60, but not to the rock of the Troutdale Formation approximately 200 feet below the surface. There is a risk in case of a significant earthquake, which could cause the river soils to act as a liquid.*

*The Portland-Vancouver region is known to be seismically active. In 1962, a magnitude 5.5 earthquake struck the region, centered in east Vancouver. In 1993, a magnitude 5.6 earthquake in the Willamette Valley caused $28 million in damages. The region has historically been subject to much larger subduction zone earthquakes, the last of which occurred over 300 years ago.*

Where to begin...ah yes, the State of Oregon Seismic Vulnerability Report of 2009 which states that in the case of an 8.3 earthquake, very slight to moderate damage might occur. In the case of a 9.0, the increase in damage was minimal.

Secondly, in the 1993 earthquake...the Spring Break Quake, the damage mainly consisted of toppled chimneys and unreinforced masonry on walls and the dome of the Oregon State Capital Building, churches and schools. Otherwise, it was broken windows and minimal structural issues. There was no structural defect on the Detroit Dam at Detroit Lake and no structural defect reported on any bridges in Oregon as a result of the earthquake.

(The I-5 Bridges could be retrofitted estimated to be $120 million according to the ODOT website.)

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another two questionable comments by CRC:

*A “hump” in the middle of the Interstate Bridge hinders drivers' view and causes heavy truck traffic to slow down.*

A hump in the middle of the Interstate Bridge??? Aren't you supposed to be watching the vehicles in your immediate vicinity, not two miles ahead??? Again...a bogus statement as far as I'm concerned.

*"The CRC project will significantly improve safety and congestion in the five-mile segment of I-5 between SR 500 in Vancouver and Victory Boulevard in North Portland. CRC will replace the Interstate Bridge, improve five miles of I-5, extend light rail to downtown Vancouver and improve bicycle and pedestrian facilities."*

There will still be only three through lanes in each direction. Gridlock into Portland will still be an issue as people near the Rose Quarter region. Congestion issues will increase tenfold on the Washington side in downtown Vancouver due to the rights of way of light rail.

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I don't think I have ever had a Geritol cocktail but I am willing to try one.*

timerick — March 28, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

Make mine a double.

Shaken, not stirred.

nailingit — March 28, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And finally...CRC claims there will be fewer collisions in the project area. Here's some information...a few headlines from local news entities which proves...accidents happen and using or being around light rail does not necessarily mean a safer commute:

**MAX Yellow Line**

Yellow line Max train crashes at end of Yellow Line: Nov. 7, 2011

Semi Truck hits MAX train in North Portland: October 10, 2012
(Mill Plain and Fourth Plain are frequent routes for semis in Port of Vancouver)

MAX train and car collide in North Portland: October 21, 2012

**Other MAX line incidents:**

MAX train collision with fire truck: January 2, 2005

Eight people injured in crash between MAX train and semi in Hillsboro: October 24, 2011

Red and Blue line service disrupted after collision between van and MAX train in Old Town: January 17, 2013

**Tragic accidents surrounding MAX trains which resulted in Fatalities:**

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Devastating Light Rail projections! Exclusive! Anti-CRC leaders leak behind the scenes footage.

nailingit — March 28, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 28, 2013 at 10:31 a.m.

*Where to begin...ah yes, the State of Oregon Seismic Vulnerability Report of 2009 which states that in the case of an 8.3 earthquake, very slight to moderate damage might occur. In the case of a 9.0, the increase in damage was minimal.*

I thought the Richter scale was based on a base 10 logarithmic scale...1, 10, 100, 1000, etc. So, a quake that is 8.3 would have an exponential increase of 10 from a quake that is 7.3. but a 100 times from one that is 6.3. At least I think that's the way it works. Any math instructors out there??

I was in the 1971 San Fernando, CA quake which was 6.6. It was very scary, and we could hear the rumbling of aftershocks for 3 days, and feel them even longer. I've no idea if that quake was a Crustal or Subduction quake, but I do know that does matter in trying to calculate if bridges and overpasses are built to withstand the repeated shaking of a quake and aftershocks. Before that experience, I had no idea sound was such a violent part of earthquakes.

The quake in Japan in 2011 was a 9.0, which makes me wonder why the Oregon Seismic Vulnerability ODOT Report would say a 8.3 quake would cause only 'very slight to moderate damage' in a populated metro like Portland w/ all it's bridges, or why they'd say that a 9.0 quake would only increase damage minimally. The Richter Scale only goes to 10, so numbers between 8.0 and 9.0 would indicate that much more major stress, not that much nore minimal damage.

jacjak — March 28, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see that N. Korea's little banty rooster leader is puffing his chest and ruffling his feathers with threats against us again.

Will these miserable little creatures for leaders ever learn???

ELISI — March 28, 2013 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Will these miserable little creatures for leaders ever learn???"

Will ours?

N Korea is untouchable-think China. If N Korea was weak, vulnerable, whatever, the toothless, ineffective US military wouldn't have the US government in such a dilemna. At the height of US military power, back in '53, we couldn't defeat them, fat chance of that now, as we ineptly showed in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we can't militarily defeat a ragtag bunch of fighters in the Middle East, how in the hell are we to defeat the N Koreans? They have an army of hundreds of thousands and are well armed. Good luck.

China loves N Korea. It is a perfect buffer between the US military and China. With China able to dump 10% of US debt, we can't tick them off. Jung can do whatever, China HAS to have his back.

Considering the US DOD is today totally ineffective as an instument of foreign policy for a government that is totally broke, what can we do? Print more money and go deeper in debt? Sell more bonds to the Chinese?

N Korea knows this and is playing it to the max. Best get up the missile defense systems and hope they work-and that's not real comforting to me as a west coast resident. I have less faith in those systems than I do the local weather guy-sorry Pat.

mrd — March 28, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My Wife decided that I needed some "Easter" spice drops, so she got some at the store for me. Now, I like spice drops, especially the licorice flavored ones. Why they are officially "Easter" spice drops, I have no idea, none of them are bunnies or anything. I was a little disappointed though, right there on the label was the notice that they were "fat free" and "gluten free". I was so looking forward to the full gluten version. They should have said "flavor free" as well, just bland. They must be afraid they are going to offend those of us with taste buds.

hawkeye — March 28, 2013 at 11:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — March 28, 2013 at 8:53 p.m.

So what happens to China’s economy if war broke out with the West? Who’s going to buy all of their manufactured goods?

What happens to China’s economy if the West defaults on all of the debt the Chinese have bought?

I think you’re being a quite harsh with your assessment of US military might and also comparing the U.S. government with that of N. Korea. The 1953 era policy was one of “containment”, not an all out show down. Desert Storm is AKA the 100 hours war, not exactly a show of weakness against a "well armed" Iraqi army, and not the “Mother of All Battles” as Sadam predicted. And the Guerilla/Urban warfare of the present day is a different creature. It seems kind of hard to compare that with a shooting war with N. Korea.

Earlier this month, China did agree with the U.S. on more sanctions for N. Korea over their latest nuclear bomb test.

kn_dalai — March 28, 2013 at 11:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's been a couple of years, but last time I bought a bag of Brachs they were the legit thing. But most of those were just fruit flavors - The only real spice drops I can recall were in a Hickory Farms gift basket. Some of the flavors were a bit odd, but all were good.

Good licorice candy is getting harder to find.

roger — March 29, 2013 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think the real fear with North Korea is that they have nuclear capability. They have no known long distance delivery system, but they do have missiles. South Korea is in jeopardy, and probably Japan. The question is, are they crazy enough to use them? Keeping the rest of the world thinking that just perhaps they are is their strongest weapon.

roger — March 29, 2013 at 5:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jakjak, the charts on the ODOT Seismic Vulnerability Report, courtesy of the ODOT website stated and I quote

*Cascadia Subduction Zone Earthquake near Northern Oregon -
An earthquake scenario of magnitude 8.3 at the Cascadia Subduction Zone near northern Oregon produced no complete collapses, 28 extensive, 32 moderate and 152 slight damage states. The losses evaluated were $336 million for bridge repair and replacement and $8 million travel time related losses. Figure 5.9 shows a map of component damage states for the northwestern part of Oregon.*

The next chart reference states the following -

*An earthquake scenario of magnitude 9.0 at the Cascadia Subduction Zone resulted in 6 complete collapses, 64 extensive, 106 moderate and 164 slight damage states. The losses calculated were $1,080 million for bridge repair and replacement and $177 million travel time related losses. Figure 5.11 shows a map of component
damage states for the western part of Oregon.*

Bear in mind, this is in reference to the Cascadia Subduction Zones and also includes the northern coastal areas which would receive the brunt of the damage from such earthquakes. Table 5.7 is quite informative, although rather general.

Now if there were an earthquake of 6.5 magnitude in Portland's West Hills, the scenario would be different for the downtown bridges , according to the tables...but I was referencing the statement on the CRC website which referred to the subduction zones and the way they handle misinformation in order to promote replacement of the bridges.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak, sorry about the misspelling on your avatar in my last comment. I also wanted to thank you for questioning my statement so that I could further explain my position in finding these discrepancies on the CRC website. In no way am I trying to misrepresent any facts regarding the crossing project. I'm merely pointing out what I believe to be inaccuracies which have misled not only the people of the communities of Portland and SW Washington, but the folks at the city, county, state and federal level of government.

I would rather people ask the questions so I could point out the facts presented and if anybody has anything else which shows other proof regarding seismic vulnerability of the I-5 bridges as being other than what ODOT claims on their website, my stance might change regarding my comment @10:31 am. I am basing my statement on the information I have presented and what has been presented to the people who are making decisions regarding funding of the crossing.

Bear in mind, too...that if we had an earthquake of any magnitude over 7.5, that there would be plenty of damage to deal with throughout our communities AND highway infrastructure. This is just a scare tactic by the folks involved in planning and promoting the CRC and people must be reminded regarding what is fact and what is propaganda.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — March 28, 2013 at 8:53 p.m.

This is a subject in which I agree with you. Any way they can cause a bit of hair raising to the POTUS, he cannot take it for granted that it's just an annoying little nothing, posturing to make himself look more important.


kn_dalai — March 28, 2013 at 11:52 p.m.

Although the US economy is tied in with China, this would not disable China's economy. Their products are global and they have their hands deep in the issues plaguing the EU with products manufactured far cheaper than the countries within the EU could possibly make. If you want to consider the mindset of who has the tightest grip on the world, look to China.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 28, 2013 at 11:50 p.m.


I'd be more worried about the food colorings and additives before I'd worry about gluten, although folks who have gluten intolerance might disagree with me. Either way...I'll still pop a couple of spice drops in my the green and orange ones the best, followed by the white ones. The cinnamon ones...rather sharp...8)

Moderation is the key.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 29, 2013 at 6:19 a.m.

Sigh...I tend to agree more with your assessment on NK, holyc.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You know that $3.4 Billion dollar price tag the CRC claims the project will cost??? Well, folks, cost overruns on the Columbia River Crossing have already begun, according to the letter which Rep. Jaime Herrera-Beutler submitted to Ms. Nancy Boyd, Vancouver Director for the CRC. In her letter, dated March 6, 2013...Rep. Herrera-Beutler stated the following -

"The CRC's prime contractor was granted a $50 Million "Maximum Amount Payable" contract to perform the environmental impact studies for this project. Through June 2012, that contract stood at $131.2 Million."

Although this appears to only be an increase of $81.2 million, this is only based on data from June 2012. That's ten months ago and I'm all but positive the figure has increased since then. We need to take serious, the fact that we're looking at the initial cost of the crossing project to be 30% higher prior to interest accrued, according to a video of Joe Cortright, President and Principal Economist for Impreza which I located on Couv. com. The state of Washington is currently working on two megaprojects with bonds (loans) yet to be paid off. The original funding estimates clearly did not match the actual revenue they are acquiring, and WSDOT is working in the red.

We all know where the added costs of the crossing project are going to come from...and it's certainly not the Federal or State Government. Earmarks are all but history, now. The people of Clark County will pay the brunt of the costs. The people of Multnomah County will pay a share but it won't be anything like what we'll have to pay here.

So you have to ask yourselves it worth the cost in order to improve traffic flow by one minute per day???

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

big difference between powerful and effective. What good is power if it's ineffective? Also, as you noted, lining up toe to toe with US forces isn't a smart thing to do, probably why no one has done much of it in Iraq & Afghanistan. What Iraq had left after the Kuwait debacle was minimal at best.

I doubt the US military has a clue what they'd do after a shooting war starts, unless they've REALLY gotten much wiser in the last 10 years. Funny how politics factors in. In supporting Bush I not going to all the way into Iraq, Cheney laid out the exact problems that befell him & Shrub II a few years later. With idiots like that running the show, anything can happen, usually not good.

mrd — March 29, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd you sell your country and the military way short. you walk around with dark tinted glasses, keep on thinking the way you do.
there have been wars and rumors of wars since the beginning of time.
the jerk called "leader" of NK has been running videos of NK at war with the USA already in his country. tells his people we have no birds cause we have eaten them all do to starvation, drug addicts waiting for his/her "fix of heroin", towns, cities in completely rubble from their missiles. all propaganda to make himself look good to his people while they starve and he sits in his palace eating lobster and steak, drinking the finest alcohol and makes his threats.

IMO can NK's missiles hit the USA? Not at this time, can they hit SK and Japan, yes. There is the problem. If anything the jerk will go after one or both and that will drag us right in the middle. the war games our military play with our allies is just that, practice for IF, if war does break out, our troops are at the ready. if you remember his father would make threats during the "war games" also.

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd do you actually think the idiots that are running the show now would/can do any better? thanks for the morning laugh!

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

would today's ship of fools do better? based on past performances, I'd be surprised.

But then NK doesn't really have to win. Just hang around long enough to force the US to drop a trillion bucks or so, follow Bin Laden's plan. Who knows, if they hang in their long enough the government can pull $$ from things like education, health, and welfare. Sound familiar? Using the taxes from the masses to run their war machines while things go to hell in a handbasket?

mrd — March 29, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes picture shows jerk memories.

I was so against Operation Iraqi Freedom in 91', I voted for Andre Marrou in 92'.

Of course we chose to defend the oil soaked Saudi's/Kuwaiti's and play kingmaker 9000 miles off shore.

If we hadn't intervened and let circumstances play out and not forced our will during that time, then the reason for Bin Laden/9/11 wouldn't have existed.

Hence no 9/11. Hence no Afghan war. Hence no Iraqi war. Hence if the neo-con fools had it to do all over again they'd do it again! Hence no lessons learned. Hence we will repeat our mistakes.

Hence we'd be better off sitting on the fence.

Just about any administration will fare better than the two Bush (last two republican) admins.

And that ain't no laughing matter.

And let's not forget, (and I do not agree with some Obama foreign policy) it took this "ship of fools" to nail Bin Laden and ensure these two wars are wound down and done.

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

it took this "ship of fools" to nail Bin Laden and ensure these two wars are wound down and done.

now that is funny! 2 wars wound down? ha! troops are still there and will be for a very long time. nail bin laden?
funny how just out of no where huh? if it hadn't have been for the last administration and all that was accomplished (intell) the ship of fools would have never gotten him. funny how they did just before election time, nothing like making a lame leader look good eh?
lets look at gitmo shall we..closed as promised? no! they are in the process of upgrading good old gitmo. more like a modern day gulag, the morons are on hunger strike due to the lack of bottled water.

"ship of fools" lol same ship of fools that allowed TSA to spend $50 mil on new uniforms and gave 2.4 mil to PPH in orlando so they can give teens sex ed.

you are getting fleeced and fleeced well.

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb...welcome (back???) to the forum. Well-thought, well-executed point of view shared, even if some have opposing makes people think a bit beyond the bubble.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*now that is funny! 2 wars wound down? ha! troops are still there and will be for a very long time.*

It's what we do and how we do it. Of course we'll have a presence there, as we have done in other conflicts.

*nail bin laden? funny how just out of no where huh?*

Curious..have you posted here before? And no, of course it wasn't out of "no where". Though I'm reminded of Tora Bora, as well as the political courage it took at this time to get UBL the way this admin has done.

*if it hadn't have been for the last administration and all that was accomplished (intell) the ship of fools would have never gotten him.*

If it hadn't been for the last administration and all that was accomplished we wouldn't have needed to get him! :)))

*funny how they did just before election time, nothing like making a lame leader look good eh?*

"A lame leader", and who would you be comparing him to, the last eight years of Bush?

You sound like someone else. Your conspiracy theory doesn't gel with facts on the ground. Sounds Becktonian!!! Is it possible exact broken mindsets/logic/biting personality aren't the same??? I'll chalk this one up to my *benefit of the doubt category*.

*lets look at gitmo shall we..closed as promised? no! they are in the process of upgrading good old gitmo. more like a modern day gulag, the morons are on hunger strike due to the lack of bottled water.*

What's your complaint now?

*"ship of fools" lol same ship of fools that allowed TSA to spend $50 mil on new uniforms and gave 2.4 mil to PPH in orlando so they can give teens sex ed.*

All your skewed war BS to push ultra conservative/religious agenda's....tsk tsk....:)

you are getting fleeced and fleeced well.


nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's an excellent political debate between Moeller/Cleveland and Benton/Harris...well worth the time to listen. Note...Moeller claims the I-5 Bridges only have one through lane at this time. He also claims the comment by Senator Don Benton about the high possibility of tolls being as much as $8 as a myth, then mentions the range of tolls are between $2 and $8. Seriously!!! I'm not makin' this stuff up, folks. That's who's representing us!

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Icing on the cake!!! LOL

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb...whatever you post on here, if it's not coinciding with the thoughts of some here on the forum, you'll be accused of siding with Glenn Beck. That's their method of argument. Rather lame, I'd say.

goldenoldie — March 29, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

lol I like this "Becktonian"! ha ha ha ha ha

are you by chance a out of work comedian?

liberals absolutely love to ridicule and deride people who think differently from them but they can’t stand it when they are the target. boy have you just defined yourself!

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You come on here all lookin' to one or two, or.. one other...

Interesting you chose not to respond to basic questions but rather personal insult.

Why is it so many outwardly object to a person privately they hold in esteem?

Or do you denounce Glenn Beck.? Your conspiracy theory was compared to Becktonian thought because of it's absurdity, it's weirdness, and obvious attempt to shame this president.

Just curious, then I'll leave you two to banter with yourself, do you believe Barack Obama to be a legitimate president of the United States? A natural born citizen who loves his country and is trying to improve it?

And BTW, since you are playing the victim card, in what way did I *ridicule and deride* you in saying your conspiracy sounded Becktonian? You might want to check a couple of definitions before crying in this forum.

Man you sound fami*liar*.

Always the victim.....


nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

why would I denouce this beck person, who is he?
my conspiracy theory? say what the **** tell me since it is obvious that you are liberal and I am not, my opinion is a conspiracy theory? you are batting 100 in the comedy section today.

obama might be a citizen, doesn't mean he loves this country, with the amount on food stamps, out of a job, businesses closed, cities all but dead. yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah he loves this country and is improving it, now any other jokes you would like to share?

so what ya think of the crc, bet you're one of those blethering chanter built it they will come huh?

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nothing like small government!*

**North Carolina lawmaker wants to impose a two-year waiting period for divorce**

Republican state. Sen. Austin Allran's bill also mandates marriage counseling and a class on divorce and children

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 29, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.


hawkeye — March 29, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know who was for the 91' Gulf war, but I remember I was in the extreme minority being opposed, more so than being against Iraq redux in 03'. It's a conversation worth having.

We need to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. Until we hold those in charge accountable, to include Obama, there will be no change. The Bushes are responsible for so much damage to our Country, and we got another one in Florida to keep an eye on.

The unholy trinity.

The Bush doctrine of preemptive strike, and our unwarranted invasion of Iraq will go down in history as the worst foreign debacles in modern history.

Obama needs to reign it in. Congress should conduct investigations on the info leading up to Iraq and the decisions made.

It's the only way but Obama hasn't got the balls and Congress doesn't want their dirty laundry aired.

On to Iran and N Korea...

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

40 years ago today we left Viet Nam.It does not feel that long ago to me.I was lucky I came home to good old Vancouver in 71.I was treated pretty good by most everyone.I guess because Vancouver had been a military town from the begining.Welcome home all you old Viet Nam vets.And a big welcome home to all our new vets.It is great to have you back.

timerick — March 29, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*40 years ago today we left Viet Nam.*

Thanks for reminding us, as well as your service timerick.

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

there are days I wonder how some people found their way out of the birth canal.

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What a difference a President can make. Both good and bad.

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the good, bad and ugly

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 5:49 p.m

so Obama's the good, you lookin' in the mirror for the rest?

hawkeye — March 29, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, nobody can screw off a big game like Kansas! I called it at half time when the Jayhawks were up by 6.

Be it cursed from state politics, too close family ties, or just a mysterious penchant for choking..

..another big L for the Jayhawks.

Speaking of-roger-your Zags dumped early. How are your brackets?

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What a beautiful day today!

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm done. I had Miami beating Saint Louis in the finals. And I had Wisconsin beating the Zags in the final 8; needless to say, neither made it. I've been playing these pools for about 40 years - never got beat up as bad as this year. I think I'll root for Florida Gulf Coast later tonight & see where that goes. They'd actually match up fairly well against Louisville, who has been looking the best so far. (Though I suppose a Syracuse fan might disagree.)

roger — March 29, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A good day for Springtime music - this was one of my wife's favorites.

roger — March 29, 2013 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't know what that squabble is about, but I can't pass this up. One of the few movies I can sit and watch the whole way through.

roger — March 29, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So if we do a colonoscopy on Madore...can we do 1 on u **holycrapola**? I wanna see what ur 'bout. ;-)

Who cares about gay marriage! it's just another way to separate the people of the United States so people can feel like they are doing a good thing when they wage an argument bc of some1 not agreeing. Propaganda set out by the idiots that control the news media outlets. That's all. Now if people would stfu about it and let everyone regardless of gender, sexuality for equal rights there wouldn't be a segregation. Babyboom just don't get it do you?!

FYI the teaching of Marriage in the Bible is in the New Testament (Matthew- I think not sure) in regards to what the Lord's word was Genesis (Old testament)...that it was one man one woman. Cool fact The Old Testament was also referenced at one point as the Book of Moses. Overheard a conversation on this today.

Dayum y'all r all over the place here- I guess spending cuts hit the looney bin & meds were cut in half.

andrecht — March 29, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since vids are bein posted...thought I'd join in.

andrecht — March 29, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- For many years I was part of a NCAA March Madness pool. Each year betwee 9 & 12 of us would hold a draft for players strictly based on projected individual point scoring.

Each person got 20 picks and picks would go up & down as in a draft. Some leeway, but about 3 min. per pick allowed.

Vegas papers would always come out with a major March Madness section each year several days before the tournament depicting stats, stats, and more stats from each of the 64 teams to include individual point scorers from each team in the tourney. You'd have all the info in front of you before and during the draft/pool.

A lot of strategy as to how far your picks will go, projecting down the road match ups, altering pics when no longer available, high scorers from cinderella teams, chart depth, momentum, dark horses, injuries/scandals/disciplinary problems etc. The Zags made a few people happy more than once. Although a UNLV fan, (and by nature a Duke hater) Duke's depth helped me to win more than one tourney back in the 90's-2000's. I even kept doing it via live on the internet for a few years after moving to Japan. The time dif was interesting!

Every year each person put up 50 bucks and we had a first second & third payout, with the majority to 1st.

A lotta fun and keeps your head in absolutely every game as we provided a copy of everyones pick (charted) to everybody for comparison.

Anyway just thought to share. College basketball is still one of the best shows out there. Try this type of pool sometime. Totally cool!

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- And to add, we had a "wild card" so to speak. We'd put numbers 1-20 in a hat and have last years winner draw a number. Say the number was 14. $50 would go to the person whose player scored the highest points in round 14 of the draft. So for example you could have a high scoring late round pick from a cinderella team that goes fairly deep and win, even though you weren't in the top three overall.

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

andrecht @ 8:13- LOL!

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 8:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

you might enjoy this also andrecht

jasonb — March 29, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Geez - I'm waiting for Alleycat to show back up and start quoting from Way of the Biker (or whatever it was).

Only a Biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

roger — March 29, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Rock on Baby!

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - Sounds like the same general scheme as with the fantasy football leagues people I know played in. Sounds like fun. I like the NCAA Bball tourney because it's so unpredictable. I lost a few bucks when Jimmy V's NC State team beat Phi Slamma Jamma (one of the greatest collection of players ever, led by Hakeem the Dream and Clyde Drexler). And I gather you enjoyed UNLV destroying Duke that one year - I think Larry Johnson, Stacy Augmon, and Greg Anthony were all on that team.

Oh well. Florida Gulf Coast started good, but then Florida decided to start playing. Boooo!!!!

roger — March 29, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*And I gather you enjoyed UNLV destroying Duke that one year - I think Larry Johnson, Stacy Augmon, and Greg Anthony were all on that team.*

Nothing like goin' to school with Tark in the shark tank. Great place to play ball and Tarkanian was quite the character.

What a year!

nailingit — March 29, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 29, 2013 at 9:16 p.m.

" I'm waiting for Alleycat to show back up and start quoting from Way of the Biker (or whatever it was)."

The way he claimed to be a biker and than complained about "brutes" in his neighborhood setting off fireworks, I assumed his biker days were spent on the back of the bike.

frobert — March 29, 2013 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Got your panties in bunch holycrapola....geeze take a joke. I'll say what I want, when I want, and how I want. I don't care if people believe or not that's their choice. Let them live. So you don't like it, whatever dude...I think you need your colon cleaned a bit bc ur head is so far up it it's cloudy. I'm gonna call you princess colon cleanser...princess for short bc ur acting like a diva...OOO I scurred.

Question for other people on here are some people always mentally incapacitated state of mind on here?

andrecht — March 30, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OOOOO Heart by Baracuda ever since I heard that song on Guitar Hero I've loved it!


For my Princess with love Baby [link text][1]


andrecht — March 30, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There's an interesting comment by Allen Anderson posted to article covering the anti-CRC meeting at the Red Lion yesterday. Seems there's a young downtown guitar shop owner who impressed the crowd with his talk about how the CRC project will hurt the businesses that are there now. Allen considered his presentation to be the best of them all - pretty high praise, when considering the others who spoke.

roger — March 30, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We've already sent our best - What more can we do?

roger — March 30, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


After reviewing the speakers and what they had to say, the owner of the guitar shop...who I believe as well...had the best impact when it came to this project and what could very well be the end of the current downtown businesses IF this project does begin. Ohh...if Mayor Royce and his partners in crime who had attended that summit meeting wouldn't have adhered to the dictatorial mentality they'd possessed up to this day...if they'd only listened to the voters of '95...

We'd have a perfectly-functioning I-5 bridge with three through lanes.

Oh wait...isn't that what we have right now??? According to Rep. Moeller, there's only one through lane in each direction. At least, that's what he said on KATU the other day.

Seriously...the bridge replacement would've been over and done with if the "Light Rail Agenda" hadn't been included. We'd be looking at federal funding to replace the railroad bridge AND building that third bridge by now.

Don't ya just love the screw ups of planning for better commerce, better traffic mobility and a better life for folks on BOTH sides of the river???

goldenoldie — March 30, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 30, 2013 at 9:59 a.m

Ever think that "All old people" that do go to those meetings are there TOO insure that the young people do have a viable future?

ELISI — March 30, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 30, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. -- "I would like to know how do they live and what do they do all day."

That border with South Korea isn't so heavily guarded to keep the southerners out. It's hard to say what's fact with places that control who can come and go, but it seems you either learn to toe the party line or you get to join one of the state labor camps. Stalinist Soviets called them gulags.

roger — March 30, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

andrecht — March 30, 2013 at 7:49 a.m.

REALLY? You heard it on guitar hero? You really must expand your music library. Ever hear of Pink Floyd?

FYI, it's Barracuda by Heart. Ann and Nancy Wilson. Two of the most talented people to come out of Seattle, EVER.

hawkeye — March 30, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Could be Elise, I am of the old school of I kill my own fleas, thank you very much....LOL*

??????????? What in the... is that suppose to mean?

Before you HC, there were others that paved the way. Others (the now old and those that have passed on) who made sure you had a future.

ELISI — March 30, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Re: HC at 9:59 a.m.

Ask yourselves this: were you more knowlegeable at 30 than you were at 20? Were you more knowledgeable at 40 than at 30? Were you more knowledgeable at…..

Young people are full of pie-in–the-sky ignorance. As we all were. Yes, intelligent in some ways, but….not with the werewithal to understand that the devil–is-in-the-details, which becomes more apparent with increased experience.

Then again, some never do grow up, hence: the Democrat party. (All right, that’s a bit harsh, but also has a ring of truth to it, as far as I’m concerned).

Is the CRC LRT really a good thing, or is laying down some fixed tracks at great cost, with all kinds of detrimental consequences, just some one’s pie-in-the-sky idea of “progress”. Good grief. As someone on FB noted a few months ago: we’ll all be riding around in electric cars that drive themselves, in 30 years. Now THAT’S progress. I’ve yet to see any good comments made about any true positives of LRT. It’s really quite amazing that some hang their political hats on the creations of pop culture. Elisi’s comment @10:34 a.m. is spot on.

kn_dalai — March 30, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 30, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

Hey Hawg Man! I hope you got some of that wonderful fresh, warm air in your lungs, ridin' out to Amboy today. We drive by Nicks quite a bit on our way to Northwoods...always see the small collection of bikes in front as well as the riders (from Hawgs to c-rockets) headed to Cougar. Hopefully not too many piss-ants got in your mouth on the way. They're flyin' all over the place today.

Regarding the "Old People" wisecrack...How old did you say you were, holyc? Seems to me, age isn't the question. It's our civic duty to stand up for what we believe in. The younger generation hasn't quite caught onto that least not in the numbers you'd expect, unless there's a popular idol who would attend...THEN you'd see the numbers climb.

If you look at the photo on the Rally...No, I mean REALLY look at the photo with your handy, dandy magnifying glass you use when the fine print is too small to read...then you'd see there's younger people in the audience. Naturally, the C's photographer went for the shot they did. Of course, the heckler in the group...ain't he just a sweetie - a great representation of the pro-CRCers!

BTW...those 20-year-old people you spoke DO realize it's Spring Break for the college students right now, don't you??? And if you remember anything of when you were in your 20's...when the sun is out, we worship (sun worshipers that is). Spring snowboarding, beach parties, road trips...sounds like more fun than worrying about the onset of massive taxes, tolls, fees and all that. Someone's gotta look out for them. Might as well be their parents and grandparents.

goldenoldie — March 30, 2013 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye...I know who Pink Floyd is... I've never heard of Barracuda by heart. It wasn't my era. And yes I listen to a wide variety of music.

Holycrapola...really is that all you got? Wimp.

andrecht — March 30, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc...if at all, you might think it's only old people protesting the crossing project just from what you might see in a picture and the possibility that your earlier comment about "old people" had anything to do with that picture, then maybe you need to take a look at this February 2013 article in the BikePortland website:

Dang...all those old fuddie duddies in the pictures!!!

In my opinion, it's good to know the CRC opposition is growing as well with our neighbors to the south.

The truth shall prevail.

goldenoldie — March 30, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

andrecht — March 30, 2013 at 5:29 p.m

Try to find a few albums by Heart, better yet, go see them IRL. They play at the Amphitheater once in a while.

hawkeye — March 30, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That tells you how disconnected young people are from real issues. Great for the pocket pickets of the corporate kind. Keep them distracted with the Kardashians and the likes, give them booze and drugs and exercise "control" of EVERYTHING!!!!!

funny stuff holyc, since all you mention and media is the ones who have kept your generation busy so they can control you! so many of you babyboomers *those born between 46' and 64'* have swallowed it all, hook, line, and sinker. fleeced, used, and left to die.

jasonb — March 30, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


may all our basement brood have a wonderful sunday.

for those who are Christian, take joy in your family; our days here are not guaranteed and now is all we really have. laugh, be silly, pay special attention to the children's delight. it may not be there next time.

for our non-believers, enjoy the sun and 70-degree weather. admire the trees and birds' songs. nature is magical to those who can sense such things.

for us all, may God bless us, each and every one. even if they don't believe, bless them.

DeeLittle — March 31, 2013 at 3:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy Easter...


*Add to that the FEMA camps, ammunition purchases by the government, etc. I have never perceived such a generalized feeling.*

You can file these two concerns under right wing idiocy conspiracies furthered a faithful few cat. Research man, research.

Beautiful weather! I don't ride anymore, but days like this........

nailingit — March 31, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, may GOD bless you and all of us. Hope everyone enjoys this beautiful day with family and church families.

holycrapola, you have searched for him all your life? Try really listening, quietly...ask and ye shall receive

ELISI — March 31, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*The "buzz" represents a generalized feeling and that feeling is deeply engraved in the psyche. When that happens, truth or falsehood makes no difference.*

I hear you holy. Yet truth is truth and it's value shouldn't be subjected/diminished by generalized feelings and psyche engravings. It's always worth telling.

Some of these nuts (many times religious) run wild with this stuff. They blur the lines between fact and fiction to validate a nonsensical agenda. A paranoid bunch who cling to personal emotions in spite of fact or common sense.

Combine selfishness, fear of change, poor planning for retirement, God, government conspiracies, then throw in people who's average age is older than dirt collecting gov freebies and you have the anti-everything crowd, to include infrastructure funding for the future.

I dub it the No Shame movement. :))

nailingit — March 31, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Great write John. Always the voice of reason. You will be missed!

nailingit — March 31, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 31, 2013 at 7 a.m. and March 31, 2013 at 8:53 a.m....

What you speak of is exactly what we have learned through the teachings of our faith, holyc. We have been taught (are still trying to learn) to understand why we should avoid the temptations of be humble and to be thankful for life and family and love. Yes, we witness it day in and day out...even our neighbors and our friends...even family(heck, just watching the people...parents even...fighting for that bigger bag of Easter Candies dumped by promoters of Pagan celebrations of Easter Egg hunts and such)...and I believe Greed is one of the many examples of what is also known as the "coming of the Antichrist," although I believe it's already here...hence the reason behind so many people who have tested their faith and have regained their need to hold steadfast to it. The churches were overflowing, today...anywhere we went, there was overflow parking filled.

Yeah, everyone's two people are alike. Either you believe or you don't believe. That's what makes us human, holyc.

Easter as you know, is a biblical remembrance of the selfless sacrifice of life of Christ and his spiritual rising to Heaven, which I'm sure you already knew. I don't see it as methodical and a life long brainwashing... but more as an education which some have grasped to its meaning while others have seen it as what you describe. Nobody knows for sure if it did happen...but it is a way of followers of Christ to deal with adversity and with all that is good...and is a way of dealing with hope that things would get better....sort of a way to soothe the aching soul, so to speak. It's not for everybody but for some such as myself, my faith in Christ and the holy bible has helped me pull through some definite trying times in my life and it's a path I've chosen. That doesn't mean you or anybody else would have to.

Enough of this for now. On another note, what you saw at Love's Leather...just your description brought a smile to my face. I would've loved to see that today.

goldenoldie — March 31, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 31, 2013 at 7 a.m.

I frequently drive by the Love Leathers place.

Used to be a convienience store. Then another. Then another. No one could ever make a go of the place. Not too surprising considering it’s location.

Now, everytime I drive past the place, there is almost always bikes parked out front, and clientele of some sort, hanging around in the chairs out front. Seems to have become some sort of gathering place for the biker community crowd.

Don’t know how much those clientele spend, and don’t know if the store acually makes any money, but it’s been around for a while now, so I guess they are surviving.

Now: what’s the deal with killing all of those animals for their leather skins? What about the Minks? What about the Elephants and their ivory? This brings up PETA and the whole thing about throw away life. Interesting when it involves Human vanity or selfishness in other ways. Like bike riding with leathers.

Sure, food animals are killed for their food value and then their remains are used for other purposes. Do animals feel pain? Have emotions? Scared when they are driven into the cattle trucks and forced into the slaughter houses? Where do your biker values stand on the issue of animal rights?

Whole knew subject. Care to discuss it?

You know HC, you were alleycat, and before that you were bustin_da_meek, or some such thing, and before that you were, well now I’ve forgotten, but it’s when you first came on here with your really off the wall comments, for which you got kicked off a couple of times. I think it had to do with threatening statements about using a gun or something. Funny thing is, you make some well reasoned and thoughtful comments on FB. Quite different than what you do here in the basement. I’ve always thought that you use this venue as some sort of catharthis. Just having some fun. I really do hope that’s all there is to it. In that light; you do know how to throw things out there, and have some fun.

If that’s not the case then….

kn_dalai — March 31, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 31, 2013 at 7 a.m.

I live a few miles from Loves and go by there often. Just up the street is a gun shop, busy most of the time. Funny thing, I can't seem to find an ankle holster in either place. Any ideas?

hawkeye — March 31, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The GOP as we know it is in it's final death throes. The party is splintered and has become so ineffectual and irrelevant, many are either leaving to support their own conservative faction, (Paulites, Becktites, Flavor of the monthites, etc.) or becoming Democrats, or just not showing up at the polls.

More sooner than later, Republicans are finding out repressing Americans liberties & freedoms will exact a price. Unfortunately it's we the people who bear the suffering in the short term. In ten years the GOP as we know it today, will be some unrecognizable lobby group that is scoffed at even more than it is now. No lie. :)))

A decent write which provides a clear picture, as well as insight into this once powerful party's demise.

**Stuffy Old Men: Region, Religion, Race and Class Define and Buffet GOP**

*The once-Republican Solid South is starting to look like a blue-and-red checkerboard, writes Lloyd Green.*

Given what the Republican Party is and where America’s demographics are heading, it is unclear whether the Grand Old Party can successfully pivot to the center without jeopardizing its socially conservative evangelical base. Electoral competitiveness remains elusive for Republicans as singles and younger voters have migrated to the Democratic Party. **The GOP is also shackled with the legacies of Iraq, Katrina and the crash of 2008 that have led many to view Republican competence as oxymoronic.**

**So at best, the party is barely treading water. A recent PPP poll shows both incumbent Senator Marco Rubio and former Governor Jeb Bush trailing Hillary Rodham Clinton by double digits—in Florida. Putting things in perspective, if the Republicans do not win Florida, they cannot re-take the White House**. Indeed, with Florida, and Virginia — another state that Barack Obama carried twice—the once-Republican Solid South is starting to look like a blue-and-red checkerboard, with Democrats now owning some of the biggest squares.

... **CPAC attendees heard Donald Trump do his usual rich guy-tough guy routine, and listened to Sarah Palin extol her husband’s and her own physical endowments. Okay for reality TV, perhaps, if not so much for serious national politics.**

**The Republican National Committee further added to the party’s woes by releasing its 100-page campaign autopsy—as RNC Chair Reince Priebus so memorably described it —acknowledging that “voters are increasingly rolling their eyes at what the Party represents” and lamenting the perception of the Republicans as the party of “stuffy old men.”** The report also pointed to the party’s disconnect and competitiveness problems, the insularity of the party’s national agenda and Republican deficits in campaign technology, data gathering and voter targeting.

Read more @

nailingit — March 31, 2013 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, a quick look at the .. .. no doubt.. a *leftist* who wrote the above piece...

Lloyd Green is a former Department of Justice appointee who served in the campaigns and administration of George H. W. Bush.

nailingit — March 31, 2013 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — March 31, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.

I actually know someone who sells merchandise at Love's Leather. No shortage of buyers, there.

Regarding the leather...As long as there's people who buy or hunt venison, buy their T-bone steaks or ground beef, hot dogs, pork chops and sausages for the barbie...there will be leather. As long as people in Aussie utilize roo meat, there will be leather. The same goes for other critters whose skins and pelts are used for the craft industry. The animals aren't euthanized just for their skins. Do the animals suffer??? I'd be a fool if I said no. Some do, sad to say.

BTW...have you ever ridden a horse? The halter, reins, saddle...all tooled leather. How 'bout those heavy-duty work boots or any boots with leather laces? Or what about that plush leather easy chair you've eyed in the stores??? And what is it you use to hold your pants in place??? Ever use a leather belt???'s everywhere.

goldenoldie — April 1, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrap- He thinks you're Norm Seubert who posts on the FB side. (sp) He's gone on about it before.

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

GO and HC,

I’m well aware of the prevalence of animal products and their relationship to the primary purpose of animal slaughter for food. Better to use everything than let it go to waste, of course. While I cannot claim to be a vegetarian or vegan, I have also cut back on my animal comsumption and have become more selective in the products I buy. I threw that question out there just to get some comments and I thank you for that.

nailingit — April 1, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.


Did I read N. Seubert's statement the wrong way?


kn_dalai — April 1, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai my friend...I too have cut back (way, way back in fact) on my animal consumption and obviously, from my posts...I have become much more selective in the products I purchase as well. I'm not quite a vegetarian, but definitely include more fish/seafood, veggies, fruit, legumes, nuts and seeds in my life than meat products. I'd figured you'd already known about the use of animal products...just threw out my early morning two-cents' worth. See ya on the next forum!!!

goldenoldie — April 1, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum Login