Open forum, May 6-12



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holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 6:08 a.m.

It's been going on for far too long, holyc.

Clark County (Washington State for that matter...dare I say, the US Government???) lost all credibility and trust a long time ago. This current issue is no different from what it was prior to the M & M majority. Just a different session, different players.

You've said it yourself in years passed, holycrapola. Don't even try to make it sound like it began here with Madore and Mielke. Shall I remind you the quote by Ms. Stephanie Rice which states -

*According to the county’s human resources manual, recruitment and selection for jobs “shall be conducted in an affirmative manner to provide equal employment opportunity” and “maximize reliability, objectivity and validity through a job-related assessment of applicant attributes necessary for successful job performance.”

***However, the county provides a few exceptions to the requirement that job positions be publicly advertised, and says elected officials have the discretion to appoint department heads.Need an example??? Shall we discuss the Clark County Assessor's Office as a starting point?***

I've put the second paragraph in bold to remind you and the rest that M&M; were actually working within their rights due to this little statement. This *itty bitty wittle ol'* statement will most likely save their maybe you need to focus on the rules and regulations rather than the players since they've been playin' the same game for decades, holyc.

If the C is truly on the right side of things, then why is it they need to constantly change their tune? Why is it they're forever trying to cover their tracks in incidences such as this? Not happening? Have you read the editor's Press Talk this week? IMO, you're presenting yourself as a an even bigger fool if you think they're doing the community a service with their tomfoolery when it comes to presenting the "News" as they see fit. At least Stephanie had that little statement which everyone screaming with steam shooting out of their ears seems to be ignoring.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh oh...all who adore MAX trains in Portland...

The power is out. All Max lines disrupted. (boo hoo)

Now remember...this is the most efficient form of public transportation!!! This wouldn't happen with BUS RAPID TRANSIT!!!

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

oops... part of the comment by Stephanie bled into my comment. Hers ended at ***"..and says elected officials have the discretion to appoint department heads."*** (good one to have to re-quote, lol)

Sorry about that, Stephanie.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc I don't think that Goldie is condoning corruption.I think what she is saying is that it looks like no laws were broke.All one has to do is look back at a little history of our City and County and you will see that this has been going on for years and yet there was not much complaining.It matters what side one sits on whether it get gets reported in the paper.All you have to do is look at past deeds done by Identity Clark County and you can see who ruled this City and county and still do to a point.There have been so many back door deals done by this group that it would be hard to count.But none of us have held any feet to the fire.I am not saying what happened last week was right,I think it was terrible.And you right saying that this needs to stop.But it is kind of like trying to slow down a train thats going 60 in just 20 feet.Like you say we as a people need to not look the other way anymore.We need to hold all these people accountable.Call them all on the carpet not just a select few.As far as I am concerened they all are crooks.

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kristallnacht at the Columbian

"As for the lazy c, they have replaced jackboots with thuggish journalism and instead of smashing the windows of Jews, have launched an assault on conservatives."

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your right about the hiding of income.That is why I have always thought that a flat tax of 15 to 20 percent across the board is the fair thing to do.If you make a dollar it costs you 10 cents.No write offs or deductions.Simple tax forms that everyone can do.And make our government account for every dime that they take in.Jail those that are caught stealing.From the way things have gone tho we would have to build more jails.As I said before I think that they all are crooks.

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 7:58 a.m.

**Thank you**. At least someone else in Columbianland understands where I'm coming from. I too do not condone the actions that unfolded, but because of that little statement I pointed laws were broken. Till the laws and rules/regulations are rewritten, this is normal behavior in elected leadership. Maybe someone at tomorrow's gathering can explain the reasoning behind the increased, increased comments on the FB side of the an eye opener for local government to get their butts in gear and do whatever they can to fix the problem rather than repeat the problem...even if it is a different political leadership getting away with it this time around.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.

If you have a firm number that works rather than the "..a flat tax of 15 to 20 percent across the board ..", this would be a really good time to show us.

It is something that most FT advocates don't bring to the table.

Wonder why...

Also, some analysis of what demographic groups FT benefit and suffer......

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:37 a.m.

A single-vehicle crash west of Battle Ground split a power pole early this morning, causing about 1,000 customers to lose power. Northeast 72nd Avenue remains closed near Northeast 219th Street.

UPDATE: Mill Plain now open after serious overnight crash

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.

Hey basil...glad you posted that link to Lew's site. Yeah, you'll see that I'll stand by Carolyn on her statement regarding the agenda being forced down the throats of every member of our community. I might not agree with her and Lew all the time, but this time around...MOST DEFINITELY!!! You'll also see that I totally agree with Lew Water's write and that this has been on my mind since day one. It is all too apparent what it is the folks in charge of a certain pet project have been doing...hence my reason for fighting the idiocy of the process for so many years.

Yup, the Good Ol' Boyz Klub has definitely had a strong hold on our community for far too many years and they've suckered in a lot of misinformed followers, too!

And on the other side of the coin...

ANY who are in opposition of the current project in order to support their own pet projects...ESPECIALLY Madore's Third Bridge on the East under close scrutiny by me. THAT one just doesn't make sense to me and THAT is the only subject mentioned by Rep. Moeller which I agree when it comes to Columbia River Crossings.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.

Two separate accidents several miles apart, one around 1:35 am...causing disruptions to Eastbound Mill Plain during rush hour and a two-lane roadway southbound in rural Clark County...versus all lines of MAX disrupted by their own electrical issues (including a train stalled mid-intersection of 5th and Morrison for several hours)...affecting thousands of people who rely solely on MAX that couldn't get to their destination in time as well as traffic in the core of downtown Portland.

Hardly a comparison, basil.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

At 8:40 am, the MAX trains were still unable to cross over the Steel Bridge.

Makes you wonder if there's a little more TriMet work needed to be done on the Steel Bridge...hence CRC's reasoning behind the request for Washingtonians to pay for it all.


that's it.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:48 a.m.

Ah, [Godwin's Law][1]..... Good to know.

Let us know when (or more accurately, IF) you think you have anything to support ".. agenda being forced down the throats of every member of our community..." or the myriad of claims being proffered in an effort to change the topic.


mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil I don't have a firm figure.I'm just shooting from the hip.I just feel there has to be a more fair way to tax.And a tax that won't let the extremly wealthy escape with not paying their fair share.Also anyone that works need to pay in their share also.I just want it to be fair for everyone.Maby I am dreaming that this could happen.

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 9 a.m.

holyc...believe it as you may. That's your right to do so but truly, you haven't a clue as to what I do in my time away from forums and blogs...and how active I actually am in my community. You know...the one across the river from you!!!

Regarding your comment about going to war...I'm a disbeliever in war as a solution. I wouldn't be standing side by side with you anyway.

I don't know why you'd drag Manthou into your uncivil rants, but that's neither here nor there. And as I'd said before...I state for the record that I did NOT vote for Madore. Ohh...I was tempted last November, but I did not. Too bad you'd missed that more than once, though. Maybe a day in your sailboat is warranted. It is after all beautiful weather - a nice breeze today.

You have a nice day now, you hear!!! Enjoy the parking headaches and long line tomorrow. Oh...and don't forget to put in your donation to manthou's fundraiser. Give generously...8P'

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.

Thanks for not noting that there are backup systems in place....

Maybe one should do some due diligence before posting...

Or was that just skipped over on purpose?

Now, how about how the environmental and personal effects from the use of multi-ton, multiple 100s of horsepower single occupancy vehicles on a daily basis in comparison to a single and rare incident effecting one system that is a partial response to those effects?

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.

I don't have to restate the obvious, basil. If you can't see it, then you never will. Besides, there's not enough letter count in the comment section for what I'd have to say...8)

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*.I'm just shooting from the hip.I just feel there has to be a more fair way to tax.*
timerick — May 6, 2013 at 9:10 a.m.

Got it. We note you seem to have done no research into the FT trope.

Like most who advocate a FT......

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. (

Ah, a good excuse to cover a lack of actual information.

Got it.

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.

Back up systems in place which are ineffective for those on a timeline who needed to be to work on time who now face employment issues with their bosses. Back up systems in place which are ineffective for those on a timeline with necessary medical appointments who now most likely have to face a delay in medical care due to scheduling issues. Back up systems in place which those who relied on MAX to get them to the bank in time or a court date in time... (oh...I could continue with a dozen more, but I have more important tasks to do...such as -

there's a sow bug waiting for me to watch it walk across my driveway


count chem trails in the sky


re-sort toothpicks in the dispenser...

One final note -

You cannot force people onto MAX and with issues such as this morning, they will most likely lose more ridership due to the fact that their scheduling rarely meets the times the trains actually make to their destinations during rush hour. If you haven't figured it out yet that the automotive industry has made great strides in hybrid vehicles and that more are willing to accept hybrid vehicles before riding LRT...


If you haven't figured out that the older motor vehicles aren't the only source of pollution to our environment which needs to be addressed,

then you never will.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. excuse. It's right there in front of your nose. All you have to do is open your mind and you'll see what I speak of. Now as I've said before, I have more important issues to deal with like that pokey little sow bug, the toothpicks dispenser, chem trail counting...

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"..who now face employment issues with their bosses.."
goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. (

Keep stretching, you might actually show how little footing the anti-public transit crowd has for their argument.

" .. older motor vehicles.."

The combustion of fossil fuels such as gasoline and diesel to transport people and goods is the second largest source of CO2 emissions, accounting for about 31% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 26% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011

Light-duty vehicles30 in the U.S. produced 1152.6 Tg CO2 Eq. in 2003, representing 77 percent of on-road vehicle GHG emissions and 62 percent of total transportation emissions.31 GHG emissions from light-duty vehicles increased 19 percent between 1990 and 2003. CO2 emissions increased 20 percent, or 187.8 Tg, mirroring the growth in light-duty vehicle fuel consumption. Meanwhile, emissions of CH4 and N2O from light-duty fleet vehicles decreased by 2.1 and 2.9 Tg CO2 Eq., due to the introduction of vehicle emissions control technologies in newer vehicles.
A growing portion of new vehicle sales from 1990 to 2003 consisted of light-duty trucks, which include pickup trucks, SUVs, and vans. GHG emissions from light-duty trucks increased 51 percent from 1990 to 2003, while emissions from passenger cars increased about 2 percent (Figure 3-1). In 2003, light-duty trucks produced 43 percent of light-duty vehicle GHG emissions, up from 34 percent in 1990.

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.

Got it. Claims. No cites.

Got it.

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

" .. older motor vehicles.."
goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. (

Keep stretching, you might actually show how little footing the anti-public transit crowd has for their argument.

The combustion of fossil fuels such as gasoline and diesel to **transport people and goods is the second largest source of CO2 emissions**, accounting for about 31% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 26% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011

**Light-duty vehicles in the U.S. produced 1152.6 Tg CO2 Eq. in 2003, representing 77 percent of on-road vehicle GHG emissions and 62 percent of total transportation emissions.** **GHG emissions from light-duty vehicles increased 19 percent between 1990 and 2003**. CO2 emissions increased 20 percent, or 187.8 Tg, mirroring the growth in light-duty vehicle fuel consumption. Meanwhile, emissions of CH4 and N2O from light-duty fleet vehicles decreased by 2.1 and 2.9 Tg CO2 Eq., due to the introduction of vehicle emissions control technologies in newer vehicles. A growing portion of new vehicle sales from 1990 to 2003 consisted of light-duty trucks, which include pickup trucks, SUVs, and vans. GHG emissions from light-duty trucks increased 51 percent from 1990 to 2003, while emissions from passenger cars increased about 2 percent (Figure 3-1). In 2003, light-duty trucks produced 43 percent of light-duty vehicle GHG emissions, up from 34 percent in 1990.

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The $85 billion in federal budget cuts known as sequestration are beginning to be felt far from the nation’s capital, like at a Head Start program in Pejepscot, Me., that is being closed and a cancer center in Birmingham, Ala., that is looking at layoffs. Kidney patients are losing their free transportation to dialysis centers in Stark County, Ohio, and flood gauges are being shut down on the Red River in North Dakota.

nailingit — May 6, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil I'm not advocating anything.All I'm saying is there has to be a better way to extract tax's from all of us.What that is I don't really know.But I would think that with all the smart minds we have in this country,that somebody could come up with a better and more fair system.That would not make the middle and lower class go farther in the hole.I am open to any and all ideas.

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

According to Erik Hidle, Benton showed up for work today at about 11:00 am. Great hours, eh?

"Sen. Don Benton arrived at the Clark County Public Service Center just before 11 a.m. today to begin his job at county director of Environmental Services. He was all smiles, but declined an interview.

Clark County commissioners meet next at 6 p.m. Tuesday on the sixth floor of the Public Service Center, 1300 Franklin St. The public is welcome."
timerick: I am all for a flat tax, too. It is so darn easy completing the monthly B and O tax for our service business: gross monthly WA apportioned income X .018. Done. Like that.

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Temple Lentz at her best. Madore opened up the floodgates, all right. The litigator floodgates:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 6, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

According to Erik Hidle, Benton showed up for work today at about 11:00 am. Great hours, eh?

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.

At least there won't be any down time with OJT. As State Chairman for ALEC, it's already been provided. :(

nailingit — May 6, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal's a joke.

nailingit — May 6, 2013 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

According to Trimet's alert system, MAX trains are still unable to use the Steel Bridge as of 1:35pm. Bet that sucks for anybody who counted on MAX to or from downtown for any location except for those on the west side.

Yep...we'll still use our gas guzzlin', air pollutin' HICK RIG to get us from Vannnnnntucky to Poorrrrland!!!


goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My, my my, my my my my! Just checked video cameras...all that gridlock on I-5. What did I see at 2:10 pm on the I-5 Bridge??? Five, maybe six cars in all?

I thought...maybe there's an accident in Delta Park. showed the highway sparsely occupied. So then I checked I-5 near Fremont Bridge...still clear...except when I zoomed in and saw the cluster of cars coming from...

you guessed it!

Rose Quarter. Oh wait!!! There's more!!!

The T-Curves are bunching up already. Oh...and the area around Haines Road??? Bunched up BIG time. Must be because of the I-5 Bridge, right?!?!

Yeah, we really need that LooRail to reduce the hazards of 12 hours of gridlock, huh!

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.

Much like [Lew's attempt to point out - well, actually nothing - and get called on it[1], GO's effort to point to one problem and not note that there is a functional backup in place and working shows just how little the anti crowd has on offer.

Also noted is how the environmental and personal effects from the use of multi-ton, multiple 100s of horsepower single occupancy vehicles on a daily basis is being ignored in GO's efforts.

"HEE HAW!!!!"


mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Much like [Lew's attempt to point out - well, actually nothing - and get called on it][1]


mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

david madore

"In contrast to an old job description and the inadequate qualifications that we started with, **the new leader was to be a non-bureaucrat** with private business experience to better manage that department of specialists."

so the clown hires a freakin' politician-the ultimate bureaucrat??!!

nice try, King, but....

mrd — May 6, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OMG, you guys: If I had written this plot, no one would believe it.

Benton's first day has brought with it a FB brawl between Madore and Stewart.

Check the update. I am not joking (I wish I were):

[link text][1]


manthou — May 6, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- I was just about to post it! Kudo's to Stuart!

nailingit — May 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One of the commenters spoke wisely: someone in power (who?) needs to get the Office of Government Accountability Ombudsman involved via Tim Ford at the AG's office. This commission is in crisis.

I think Madore does not know what to do with all the negative feedback he has been receiving and wants to point the finger elsewhere and deflect blame.

They brought this all on themselves: Madore and Mielke.

Stuart is right to push back. What a cesspool.

Who will they put in Bill Barron's job? Debbie Peterson? Josephine Wentzel? How about John Wiesman's job? Madore's daughter, LeeAnn Ernster?

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.

**The Hollowing Out of Government**

By Robert Reich

That’s been the Republican strategy in general: When they can’t directly repeal laws they don’t like, they repeal them indirectly by hollowing them out — denying funds to fully implement them, and reducing funds to enforce them.


mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Good Lord...really??? The news is reporting an online chat???

There comes a time in everyone's life when they have to realize the mind control Facebook has on society...especially when politicians have to argue with each other but even more so when the entity that calls themselves a news reporting agency has to gather information via Facebook.

A definite American Tragedy.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 4:58 p.m.

Madore controls the dialog on his FB page. If the letter was posted as a Columbian Letter to the Editor, or was proffered as an opinion piece to the C, then he wouldn't have that level of control.

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody notice how the Columbian has failed to recognize the fact that TriMet has had *major* issues with loo rail today...and nothing was ever reported??? So Lou, how many Vancouver mass transit commuters were affected by that today??? And how many would be affected by the growing inefficiencies of MAX in Vancouver??? BTW, according to TriMet...MAX trains are still NOT crossing over the Willamette (5:00 pm) on the Steel Bridge...and this is Rush Hour #2 affected by it. They do not have a time frame as to when this will be repaired. To say this is less important than the *saga of the commish* pure ignorance. The issue of Loo Rail will affect the people for decades or more. The *saga of the commish* is merely poor communication and partisan grandstanding. What a way to gain notoriety for Clark County!!! Too bad it's of the wrong kind.

Instead, they're focusing on Steve the Whiner and Dave the Slickster.

Well, at least you support your boss...even at the risk of losing your own identity as a credible news reporting agency. But then again, that's just my opinion...something NOBODY can take away, even you.

Desperate times call for desperate measures and some are becoming quite desperate!!!

As Gomer Pyle, USMC would say...

For shame, for shame, for shame!!!

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — May 6, 2013 at 5:08 p.m.

And you condone online chatting as opposed to the fact that both of these "adults" should be discussing this face to face with a mediator handling it??? I think it would be interesting to launch an investigation as to how much time during work hours is spent by our elected ones...on chat rooms!

I find it utterly disgusting that ANY of them choose to "chat" government affairs on Facebook.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holys... I am disgusted with ALL government communication on FAKEBOOK!!! Can you not read, man??? Are you that blind??? Madore isn't fooling anybody and neither is Stuart. This is all just a smear campaign from both ends, 1000%!!!

Why in the Hell do you even care, holys...? You don't even live in Clark County. might own a piece of property but Hell, you don't even give a rats ARSE about what's happening in your own city right now!

Talk about a true disconnect! Look in the mirror, holys...!!!

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 5:23 p.m.

Do you think I care?

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! hahaha....,mmm...hahahaha...!!!!

Oh please, holycrapola... your post @5:31 is making me laugh so hard my sides are aching. You're trying to say that the situation with Madore and Stuart is the only blatant corruption in government??? You think the LooRailCrossing design isn't blatant corruption??? You think TriMet's stronghold on the LRC package isn't blatant corruption??? You're so worried about three county commissioners and the drama unfolding, mostly thanks to poor reporting and leaping out to grab the drama of one commish who had something happen to him that he has done to others in the past...especially since he's angry the GOBK is getting a surprise attack in their pocketbooks and that ruins his credibility? You're worried about that when we have the potential to be taxed and tolled in the amount of $10 Billion while the majority lead in county commissioners wants to cut Traffic Impact Fees, Development Fees and Building Permit Fees for any property that is zoned for business...granting a better access for more companies to choose Clark County for business???

Now weigh the difference between the GOBK's vision and the vision of those of us who believe $10 billion is a huge chunk of change which will disable us for generations to come and are fighting it tooth and nail, along with the vision of the M&M; boyz to "open the floodgates" as M has said.

Yeah...blatant disconnect indeed, holys...!!! Worry about your own city, would ya! You truly show all the signs of someone who has vested interests in pet projects, no matter who you step on!

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.

You pay taxes!!! So do I. Federal, State, Property, Sales...etc. And I will continue to fight with all my might to continue to urge our legislators to keep taxes down in Clark County and Washington State and that includes fighting with all my might against the corruption of the GOBK and the LRC as well as the GOBK assault on the working class citizens...even if it means I'll go at it with words against the likes of you.

So let's told me I'm like an alcoholic in denial. You claim I'm bipolar. You say I'm losing my marbles and you claim I have a blatant disconnect. Classic, holys...! Classic Alleycat!

I remember last time you did this...and where did it get you???

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holys..., as I've said before and I will remind you once again since your memory fails you (or you choose to ignore), if any wrongdoing in the manner of laws has occurred, the parties involved should be punished. If anybody was in their right mind, they'd see to it the rules/laws are written so that there's no error IF one indeed occurred. M & M may have skirted ethics violations and may have avoided breaking the law due to the current verbiage in the system as it is.

Enough of your rants. You're sounding like a lunatic.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Steve Stuart is helping Clark County set Madore up for the fall of his life, my friends. Brilliant parry on his part.

Very foolish on Madore's part.

We have front row seats.

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is better than a movie, guys. You can't make this crap up. So DM, as usual, uses his FB page to spew stuff? Stuart answers him to get his side out?
And there are still folks ignoring this or defending the kinglet.?
And Benton walks in at 11?
Wow wow wow
Lunacy. This should be one hell of a meeting.

luvithere — May 6, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's all a sideshow act by both sides posturing for ultimate control. I've seen better acting by the clowns with Ringling Bros.

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well maybe DM should not use his FB page to air his stuff, Goldie. He sure is trying to pass the buck and blame others now. what a piece of......

luvithere — May 6, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way, for those of you with a FB account, check out both of their pages and look at the difference in describing waiving fees for developers. Floodgate of jobs!

If one of you, however, wants to do a remodel job, better pay all of the fees!
Usual giveaway to business and little taxpayer gets fleeced as always.

luvithere — May 6, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DM,......(soon to be standard reply) Uhhhh it wasn't my fault, you guys said it was OK, I didn't make the decision myself......

The only thing that comes to my mind is that old SNL routine between Ackroyd and Curtain...... Dave, you ignorant slut!

hawkeye — May 6, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now holy, how will you know which ones of us will show up?

luvithere — May 6, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll be dressed as a stern librarian, luvithere. Naughty, naughty commissioners. :)

Seriously, this is more than a spat, this is a duel-to-the-death. I truly believe that Madore crossed some legal line in his FB page post (he lied) and it will be used against him. They are building their case.

I personally know people who filed formal complaints about the suspected OPMA violation and the ignoring of Clark County's hiring process. While they may be able to appoint who they want, Madore and Mielke will likely get dinged for something they DON'T have jurisdiction to do. Just wait and let this play out.

It enrages me that Bill Barron warned Madore: "This will destroy the organization." Yet, he still brought Benton on.

It heartens me to see Republican and Democrat alike joining forces against this in-your-face middle finger to the voters and taxpayers.

Madore has an Achilles heel: his lack of political experience. As a CEO, he is used to doing whatever he wants. In government, there are protocols. Mielke's weakness? His lack of gray matter between his ears.

manthou — May 6, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou you are right.If Madore has crossed the line he just may have added a nail to his career.Holyc there are from what I have heard today going to be 4 to 6 hundred people there tomorrow.Who and how many are going to able to speak.Not very many.Also Holyc I know for a fact the Golden has been very involved in the whole CRC thing for several years.I have been to a few of the meetings when she was there.We all hope that our elected will do the right thing.It is to bad when the ones we thought would do good don't.And Basil,when I give a opinion, it is just that.I don't want or need a argument about where my resources came.Opinions can and will change.That is what is good about our country.The more we learn the better we are.I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone.Don't try to put me over a barrel.I won't suck into that.

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - If over 400 people are planning on attending tonight, where will they all sit? Council chambers has limited seating - perhaps 200 max? And then there are occupancy limits per fire code. Something says there will be a lot of disappointed people who want to see the show but can't get in. And you know the M&M; supporters will be there in force and wanting to speak too - all things considered, this has every chance of turning into a real zoo. AND TO CLOSE this part - I suggested school marm! This librarian approach may raise a few attendees blood pressures!

Timerick - Agreed on all points. Yes, Goldie has been actively involved in transportation issues - She and I were arguing about the BRT plans (which I do support) when no one else was paying attention. She's got this nasty little habit of wanting to talk about things like dollars and who will pay them; something the "build it and screw the cost" crowd finds most disturbing. Those rants about old people and obstructionism are just another way of saying they can't answer the points that she raises. AND, as for "provide your references" - stand your ground!!! I've had a similar discussion with Lord Basil in the past.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 6, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

Luvithere, my friend...did you not see my comment @5:18 pm to Basil??? Madore started up the discussion on FB and that disgusted me...hence my statement which I quote once again here "*I find it utterly disgusting that ANY of them choose to "chat" government affairs on Facebook.*"

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 6, 2013 at 5:13 p.m.

Again, you are trying to make much more out of the issue; note the Oregonian coverage.

Again, you are also presenting a small part of the issue; again, you fail to note that there was a back up plan and it was covering the problem.

Passengers were getting where they needed. Pretty much on time.

Perhaps your blind allegiance to using those multi-ton, multiple 100s of horsepower single occupancy vehicles on a daily basis.

And again, you fail to address the environmental and personal effects from the use of multi-ton, multiple 100s of horsepower single occupancy vehicles on a daily basis in comparison to a single and rare incident effecting one system that is a partial response to those effects.

mr_basil_seal — May 7, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 6, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.

I'm not interested in being part of a lynch mob, holys...! With the crowds expected to be there...and IF you're lucky, you'll be able to make a 2-minute statement...what is the reasoning for me showing up? or you for that matter??? I believe carefully written words will be best "heard" by those in power. I have never seen any public meeting provide a reasonable outcome. That my dear fellow forum follower, has provided many more responses for me than it did by attending public meetings. I choose my meetings carefully and this one is not on my list. You go ahead and attend all you want. See what it gets you!

Regarding the ARE aware that once they begin unsettling the ground beneath the bridge foundation as well as breaking the ground for new foundations...what is about to be unearthed will blow you away. Have you forgotten, man??? Have you forgotten the Kaiser Shipyards and how many years they've been there and what was dumped into the river??? Have you forgotten the decades of waste dumped into the river??? It settles into the floor of the river, my friend. We *could be* looking at years upon years of delays of the crossing AND millions...even possibly billions of dollars of tax dollars needed to clean up the mess.

You mention Hanford...Federal Tax Dollars used to clean that one up. We wouldn't even have an issue of Hanford if nuclear technology hadn't been implemented in the first place. Heck, look what it got Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Look what "clean nuclear energy" has done for Three Mile Island and Chernobyl!!! But remember...that's safer for the environment---clean energy, right??? That's why in the region surrounding Hanford...NO fish are to be consumed!!!

Regarding the rest of your rant. I've said what I've said. If you cannot read my messages without inciting an argument with your trollish banter to discredit my statements...don't bother posting to me. I'm not going to continue your game any more. You just keep making yourself look more foolish by the second and lose credibility just as you did last time.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes....and remember Fukushima??? We're still acquiring waste from that along our shores. Yep!!! Clean Nuclear Energy.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I keep getting back to a bottom line with our County brouhaha - This isn't anything new. We continue to elect political polar opposites, and compromise is a dirty word - principles are what is important. And sorry HolyC, but Goldie is very right to keep bringing the CRC and LRT business into the conversation - the parallels between the two exist, and there are a whole lot of us who believe the CRC planning process overwhelms the antics of the M&M; boys when it comes to underhanded tactics and not caring about what the people of the County think.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Don't try to put me over a barrel.I won't suck into that.*

timerick — May 6, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.

The 'barrel' you put yourself over was one of replicating a meme that has no factual data to support it. In this case, a right wing talking point, that much like most of rw policies, are vote /power getting attempts that don't do what they claim.

Hence, if you like the concept of a flat tax, then perhaps you should bring forward what informs your thinking when you posit that moving to a FT would be a good idea.

Otherwise, what we see is someone gullible enough to follow the empty rhetoric.

And if that is the case, why should we be influenced by your pronouncements?

mr_basil_seal — May 7, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick AND Roger...I thank you.

Basil...I will make this as brief as I can to answer your statement regarding the gas guzzlers @6:33 am. I'm sure you'll disagree with me but I don't mind. It's your may be we can agree to disagree.

First of all, do I really need to mention what gas guzzlers are doing to our environment? I believe that is a no brainer.

With the current crossing design, it is estimated that the amount of time saved in rush hour traffic will be one minute. The project will not improve idle time spent sitting in the gas guzzlers and people will not "flock" to light rail in order to avoid sitting in the morning gridlock which backs up from the Rose Quarter area....HENCE the reasoning behind the push for hybrid vehicles. I mentioned the downfall of MAX yesterday BECAUSE of the fact that it took gas-guzzling buses...older buses which normally sit unused in TriMet's parking take the people around. To say the times affected were minimal is a gross misinformation on your part. People were late to their jobs and their appointments, yesterday. Thousands of man hours lost by commuters due to this power failure on the MAX line PLUS OT hours by PGE and TriMet employees. All you have to do is read the articles and some of the comments and see the pictures on all the various websites, Basil. I'm not making that up.

Another point...hybrid vehicles. Have you seen the numbers? The downward trend in carbon dioxide emissions??? I'm sure you've seen the data, given your expressed interest in global climate change.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 7, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A preview of tonight's festivities.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 6:56 a.m.

Do I care? You cannot even comprehend the statements Timerick and Roger said to you which is quite accurate. Because I decide not to attend one meeting which many won't even make it in the door, let alone speak to the commissioners, you have the audacity to say I don't do anything? Because I choose to send emails or letters to the parties involved, I'm not actively involved? Because I choose not to involve myself in the political posturing of the commissioners right now... you think I"m not involved in local politics?

And you honestly think I'd poison myself with Doritos and Big Gulps? Get it right, would be fresh blueberries, strawberries and banana blended together as a smoothie. No pre-processed foods or drinks in my life.

Whatever happened to your running for office, holyc? Oh...I forgot. You live in PORRRRRRRTLAND!!! You don't qualify here.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.

I swear you're reading my mind these days with the videos you find!!! That's exactly how I perceive tonight's meeting...A circus act.

Smiles all around with that one!

Queue the Circus Song!!!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A Funny Quote (word for word) from Lance Sjogren on the Facebook side of the C -

***"Tying Vancouver into light rail would be tying into a system held together with duct tape."***

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*With the current crossing design, it is estimated that the amount of time saved...


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:01 a.m.

Virtually each passenger on a bus, Max, LR, subway, bike, etc is the equivalent to a single passenger vehicle not on the road. Look at the CO2 per passenger mile of the various modes.

BTW, a thanks for the belated acknowledgement that the backup plan worked all day. But no kudos for whining that they were old buses. Or do you want to whine about there not being enough snow removal equipment for 100 year storms sitting around for the other 99 years?

" *To say the times affected were minimal is a gross misinformation on your part.*"

If you have proof, show it. The website showed the schedules and estimated arrival times all day.

mr_basil_seal — May 7, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


From Parks to CREDEC to overt cronyism.

You folks who support this crooked jerk and all he stands for are a large part of the problem.

You gripe about lack of integrity and transparency, yet cheer/overlook when your fave elected tramples on both.

You guys so vehemently against LR have your reasons. But when you turn a blind eye to corruption to achieve your desired result, you're no better than the system you denounce.

This is the problem with blurring the lines of responsibility. It's the "they all do it" mantra, believing it to be a seal of approval for further wrongdoings.

*and there are a whole lot of us who believe the CRC planning process overwhelms the antics of the M&M; boys when it comes to underhanded tactics and not caring about what the people of the County think.*

roger — May 7, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

And therein lies much of the problem.

Ethics people. There was a day they meant something.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Estimated arrival times all day."

So when is the last time YOU rode MAX into downtown Portland from the east side, Basil??? you have the actual numbers of people who have changed from automobiles to riding MAX in Portland??? If you can present that information, then I'll consider your first statement @7:29 am as credible.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Rail away about the CRC, Monsanto and whatever issue is close to your heart and passion. Patriotism comes in all parties and flavors and I absolutely celebrate our ability to speak out freely when we disagree with Big Government, no matter what the issue, as long as it is nonviolent.

I am not going to let the crowd size or length of this meeting or the alleged futility of the effort deter me tonight because I think the Commission needs a powerful visual: hundreds of citizens in attendance. Whether they all get to speak or want to speak doesn't matter. Showing that they care and that they are participating in this important civic process in stunningly large numbers speaks volumes right there.

I am probably the only liberal, ex-hippie DAR member in the USA. It's in my blood. What can I say?

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:46 a.m

You are attempting, like D. Madore, to change the argument.

You've made claims without support. Just as timerick did about flat taxes. And just like timerick, by positing unsupported claims, your credibility becomes suspect.

timerick acknowledged his claim was 'just opinion' and used that as a defense for not needing to support it.

And those are the footsteps you are following; the argumentative style of D. Madore, timerick, Ray Menlo, Bobbo, Lew....

Got it.

mr_basil_seal — May 7, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, I think hippies and Marines have this in common: there is no such thing as a "former" one.

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am probably the only liberal, ex-hippie DAR member in the USA. It's in my blood. What can I say?

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 7:56 a.m.

My wife is a DAR member! But not an ex-Hippie. So you might be right! :)

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:40 a.m.

You have a right to your opinion, even when I believe it is based on mistruths.

I do not speak for the others. I speak for myself. I have stated multiple times that if any laws or rules were broken, the parties involved should be punished. How much clearer can I be on my stance? Yes, I said "they all do it," and that is the problem. Everyone complains but nobody is out to fix the problem, nailingit. Filling an overcrowded room with a limited number of people able to speak isn't going to solve the issue. As manthou pointed out on May 6, 2013 at 4:04 p.m., a commenter on the FB side had the right idea. So now...who's going to step up and do something about it? You guys are all screaming about it...have any of you taken the notion to take action? Have you contacted the ombudsman? Have I? Nobody's bothered to ask. But then again, holys... all but says it's not enough.

I am not against light rail IF the end justifies the mean. This current LPA for LRC doesn't fit the needs of Clark County Commuters... especially NOT at the overinflated costs of the LPA presented in the FEIS. It does not meet the needs of those with river freight. I also believe that if there was an actual need for light rail in Clark County, then it should be constructed by C-Tran, not a failing service such as TriMet. I also believe the crossing project should have a bridge constructed that if IN the future, there was an absolute need for LRT, then it would be ready for "retrofitting" the light rail system. For now though, BRT improvements along Mill Plain, Fourth Plain and Highway 99 would be a positive attribute to our county's transit needs. I also believe the Chelatchie Prairie Rail Line is set up perfectly for a commuter rail service directly through the heart of Clark County.

Regarding the "Jerk" you speak of, I do not agree with all his policies (there's a reason why I didn't vote for him...actually several), although I do believe streamlining some of Clark County's moneymakers is necessary. Should we be living in a county where uncontrolled spending at taxpayer's expense is producing nothing in return FOR the taxpayers?

Choose your words wisely, nailingit. I'm willing to share in discussion as long as innuendos and false accusations aren't thrown in.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

wowzers dude. hc you need to take a chilla pill and go play with da monkey to calm down.

just cause you 'own' property in this state doesn't mean you have the right to dictate to the elected, nor elect. you have residence in oregon? that's where your vote and voice is heard, not here in this state. if you vote here you are so in the wrong dude and if you think by driving to this state to 'change' things makes it ok just because you 'own' property here, that's a second wrong. you haven't a voice in any matter of this state unless you can prove you have permanent residence. you have no right in this state on anything unless it has to do directly with the properties (if there is any). hc you are beginning to sound like someone that has a lot to lose if the LR doesn't go maybe a land owner that is ripe for the picking for the LR? does the m&m; crew scare you hc? cause maybe, just maybe if the LR doesn't go through you will lose your backside from investments of the non sell of properties?

jasonb — May 7, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 7:56 a.m.

Exactly, manthou....and I thank you for recognizing there's a lot more going on than this questionable act by M&M.; I am in agreement with you about the commenter on the FB side. It was a good recommendation by the person. All three need to be held accountable for their actions and the rules written also need to be held accountable and fixed...through what process, that is the question. Am I right that we're in agreement as far as that goes?

Regarding the meeting tonight...volumes speak louder than words sometimes but I'm sure you know...volumes also can send the wrong message as they have at City Council meetings. I wish you good luck in your ability to speak your mind...if you get the chance. Please, by all means...share with everyone.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb, note the statement by holys...:

"I *have owned* 4 properties in Vancouver over the years and one on the east side of the state which makes it five on the state."

past tense

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Basil...even if you are missing the target by a mile, you have a right to your opinion and I respect you for that even if you fail to answer some of my questions without showing anything to back up your statements as well. You have a nice day, now!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: Wow! If she is married to you, may I assume she is a Dem?

So, at least there are two of us! :)

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes. A strong Dem I might add. Growing up and beyond, she swam upstream with a religion carrying extremely few liberals or Dems, yet was never shy about her political affiliation.

She still supports her religious beliefs, in spite of a very skeptical husband. :)))

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I'm married to what some call a "non-believer" , too. I keep telling him that he is a very spiritual person, but does not realize it. :)

OK, Boyz and Gurlz: I called the County Commission office. Doors open at 5. There will be two tables set up with two separate sign-in sheets in you wish to speak. One will be for Open Comments (Don Benton hire and other issues here) and the other will be for the Agenda Item comments (removal of development fees). The Dragonfly Cafe is for overflow crowds and the proceedings will be broadcast there, too. There is supposedly a rally planned, but no one knows the details yet.

I received a reply from Mr. Benton himself. It follows.

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Don Benton's reply to my request that he withdraw his acceptance of this position and put his hat in the ring the old fashioned way, through the typical hiring process. I NEVER questioned his character, as he claims. All I asked was this: "Mr. Benton, I respectfully request that you do the right thing by withdrawing your acceptance of the job gifted to you by David Madore and Tom Mielke and submit an application, along with other interested candidates who were denied an opportunity to apply."


Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I know you, but wanted to make sure you understood that elected county commissioners have every right and authority granted to them by the electorate to appoint government department heads that will implement their policies. This is also true of Governor Inslee and his department heads (some of which I also disagree with). This is the democratic process in America. When anyone is elected to the executive branch of government in America (Federal, State, County or City) They have always (since 1789) appointed the folks that are qualified and they trust to implement the will of the people that elected them. There is really nothing to be appalled or disgusted at except for the shameful vitriol coming from the Columbian based solely on my choice of political party affiliation. It is fine to disagree, as that is also a right protected under this same system of democracy. Protecting and enhancing our precious natural resources here in Clark County is a big responsibility which I take very seriously. I am saddened that you can be so certain of my intentions and character when we have never met. I will strive to make you proud of your county commissioners for this bold move to get the county working again and proud of your environmental services department.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts,

Don Benton


manthou — May 7, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Pat Brady Resigns: Illinois GOP Chair Steps Down Amid Gay Marriage Support Controversy**

Social conservatives within the state party had targeted Brady and called for his resignation after he announced that he personally supported same-sex marriage equality early this year. One member of the party's central committee previously described him as "a total disgrace" in supporting marriage equality and other issues that were contrary to both the national and state GOP's policy platforms.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hc you are wrong. a student or the military may be able to vote while living in another state from his-her 'home' state, but you can not. you can vote federal, but local you can not unless it is your 'main' residence.
are you crossing state lines to vote locally hc? you live in oregon, what goes on here in this state locally has nothing to do with you..unless as I said you own property that won't sell unless the LR goes through. as they say 'inquiring minds would like to know'

jasonb — May 7, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

oh how you make me chuckle hc, you have said multi times you live in oregon. keep backpedaling, try to detract what you've said. matters not, we all know what you have said previously. you go ahead and show up, as if you'll get to say anything before you are escorted out the door. might have to show up tonight just to watch, it will be quite amusing.

for now I think I'll go count the ants that are coming up out of the ant hill in the backyard they are more entertaining than you.

jasonb — May 7, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: This new "(Not Quite) The Daily 'Couve" was written for you, it seems. :)


[link text][1]


manthou — May 7, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but in the remarks for one of the many articles covering this a gentleman makes note of two Cowlitz County officials losing their positions there, and promptly being taken on by our County. Betty Sue Morris responds by saying the one hired when she was a Comm was done by the book. No attempt to justify or alibi the other, and no attempt to say this practice is unheard of.

So, I'll repeat myself again - This happens all across every government. It's widely accepted at the federal and state levels, and it sure sounds like the practice isn't entirely unknown here either. (And again - please note that the various city councils aren't going near this - and most of them have people who post regularly on The C.)

Sorry - But I'm probably more amused by the moral outrage this incident has brought about - Liberal Democrats are past masters of this, when it suits their purpose.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hc you haven't a clue as to who I am. no knowledge of whether I'm black, white, latino, where I live to what I do for a job. so just keep on with the drool dripping, foaming at the mouth antics. it will get you nowhere man. you try to be the cock of the barnyard on here hc, but from what most see is just a clown in makeup trying to be part of the big circus.

talk about an attention hound..

now back to counting ants

jasonb — May 7, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Pardon me while I compose myself (still laughing). I was outside in the late morning hours after my last comment, stacking a cord of seasoned firewood we gathered last year for next winter when I was thinking about the "outrage" by people and how similar this all sounds like the Tea Party protests...and the hidden agenda the DEMS claimed the Repubs had. Bet ya it'll have the same effect the Tea partiers had, lolololol.

Sounds like the same old, same old!!!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 7, 2013 at 11:06 a.m.


Thanks for the laughs. Have fun tonight! I'll be watching!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Then I had this news flash from all mighty God whispering in my's true Holycrapola, it is the disgusting truth. That is how these sinners do things before they come to me and ask for forgiveness but guess what Holy, I will send them straight to rot in hell!*


*holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.*

So now you're hearing voices in your head, eh???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*"...That will skyrocket property values and that is good for me and most people that own property."*

holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.

"crapo," you do realize that with skyrocketed property values, that will also include skyrocketed property tax bills, right??? Thanks for sharing the number one reason why homeowners who have no intention of ever selling their home or moving out of Clark County should fight the Loo Rail with ever last bit of effort they have, whether it be attending meetings, voicing your opinions or sending letters or emails to your legislators!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

YESSSSS!!! A public meeting well worth attending...

5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Wednesday, June 5, at the Hilton Vancouver Washington, 301 W. Sixth Street!!!

And "crapo," there's a meeting for you too on the 4th in Portland.

The USCG is seeking public input regarding the Columbia LooRailCrossing!!!!

AAAAAND!!! IF people cannot attend, there's the option of sending an email to them as well!

Now THAT'S how it's done!!!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Jasonb, if you are not white, black, or latino, you must be an islander! *the ants go marching one by one...*

As for the rest of the shenanigans on here...WHAT?!?!?!?!? Your bark is louder than your bite. Seriously go back and read what you have all said! You all sound crazy!

Manthou, interesting response you got from Don Benton, I would love to see what you wrote instead of seeing just one side. :-)

mxfun118 — May 7, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not attending tonight but will be watching.

manthou- We're fortunate to have your well reasoned voice at the table.

crapo- Keep it short. :))

goldenoldie- I'm open to a Siskel/Ebert format during this evenings festivities.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I"m game, nailingit! Seems already, someone spoke out of turn in protest of the invocation at the beginning. I see Com. Stuart admitted to the fact he spoke out of line with his cursing at the last meeting and recommended others not to do the same.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh man, the Meilke Mumble.

Which one has more likes?

Whose got the nicest Face Book pics?

Is Dave be wearing a Flak Jacket?

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So far, Steve Stuart is doing a good job, letting the people know they need to remain civil and suggests people utilize the word "ditto" instead of repeating the same thing over and over again.. Mielke wants an idea of the duration of the evening with approximately three minutes per person.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Meilke trying to suspend the rules! HAHA!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oooh...I'll have to zoom in on the video to see. I wouldn't be surprised. It's sad that things are so bad, that Benton needed an armed guard when he left work.

Wow...rules temporarily suspended???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal flak jacket.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Extra security! Meilke looks scared @#$%less!

Madore wants an all nighter! Prophylactics a buck apiece! All proceeds towards no tolls.

What a raucous crowd!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's definitely going to be interesting!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

go I think David looks stunning this evening. Is that a jobs or Jesus lapel pin? Can't tell from the angle.

Steve looks dapper and Meilke....just a mess. That suit. My!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In my opinion...rather than looking at the people, I'm focusing on the subjects at hand and the people sharing their input rather than how someone looks.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Everybody look for stern librarian aka Manthou. And find Holy.
Gold, sorry friend, but I am on 'other' side on this. I hope Stuart files charges. Those two really need to stop running roughshod over third commish.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh I see I'm not the only one watching the meeting tonight. This will be quite interesting tonight. Wonder who will be asked to leave and who will be removed..dang I see this is going to eat into a couple shows I was going to watch tonight, but I'm thinking this meeting is going to be more entertaining.

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere, are you sure you're on the other side? Seems to me, I've been saying all along that punishment is necessary on anybody who has violated rules/laws/ethics. Steve Stuart has already mentioned the discussion behind the scenes before the meeting and is going to be filing a complaint. I'm not looking for manthou the librarian or "crapo." For all we know, that was him at the beginning of the meeting, talking out of line OVER Commissioner Stuart and the others.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You sure can tell Madore is green around the gills in county government protocol!!! (one of the reasons why I was apprehensive about voting for him).

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

go- The Siskel/Ebert thing...a little satire. Otherwise this things a pressure cooker. And we know what a pressure cooker can do!

Oh alright...(hey, did anyone hear Jeanne harris had a grandbaby?)

The lighting reminds me of the Classic-12 Angry Men- courtroom setting. But this is more like 200 hundred angry men (and women!)

Anyway, back on point...

Stuart just schooled Madore! :)

Stuart rocks!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh dang, hand slaps...snap snap..tee hee

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Somebody throw another Valium at Meilke-and a fresh bottle of talc for his hand wringing.

Does anyone else think that, David.....well....talks funny?

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If the pressure cooker overheats, nailingit...ELISI's comment @6:31 pm just might begin with people "escorted" out of the room and the meeting ended. Let's hope something constructive happens tonight. Seems to me, Stuart wasn't schooling Madore. Rather...he was making a statement in opposition to Madore...and Madore stands corrected. WOW!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes , Gold, I am on other side. This anointment of Benton is terrible. Unqualified in first place, double dipping salary of two jobs and doing neither right, and the way it was done bypassing regular channels. And it seems M&M; ignored the rules and met together to get this going. Manure all over the place. Every red flag went off with me when Madore ran. And it is even worse than I thought possible.
We are on same side when it comes to punishment if rules are broken. But even if they get themselves out of this, they disgust me.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.

Actually, we aren't. We're witnessing it just as you are. That's the wonders of CVTV and broadcast public meetings, crapo.

BTW...was that you voicing your opinion at the beginning of the meeting???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You are missing history!

holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 6:39 p.m

@crap#davesoundsfunny-We're watching a Clark County Commiss meeting. Where are you at?

Meilke wanted a rule change so they can end early!


nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:43 p.m.

That's how I feel about ALL politicians, luv. If it benefits their pockets...most likely they'll do it even while stepping on the toes of the people. Take former Governor Gregoire for instance...she slipped through the loopholes of government retirement pension and won't see the cuts others have already seen. But that's okay...right???

Crooked as a $3 bill!!!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal did you get the letters to show up so large? I've been trying to figure that out for awhile. I remember years ago doing that, but I haven't been able to replicate the action. Any tips?

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys are having way to much fun with this.I don't have cable or I would be watching.I hope everybody keeps track of all the resources so Basil will approve.It was nice putting a face on one of us today,Thanks Hawkeye.Stop by anytime.I enjoyed it.

timerick — May 7, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So luvithere, you say you're on the other side? Do you believe the fees should return to full charge on new construction permits or do you believe in a fee holiday?

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No it's all not ok. But I am focusing on this one as it is story of the week, plays at home, and the hubris is just in your face.
This must all be over by ten as I need to really watch Grimm!!!

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, if you go to the article on the C about this meeting, there's a link you can click on, then click on Channel 23 live streaming. Better yet...

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe in fee holiday if us ill peons get one, too.
When pigs fly and Madore is humble

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

@Gene#Bogart-You said the same about the bar scene in Casablanca!

@SOrrY#Bud-Got U2 mixed up.

@Go-What do you think about the sound? I'd want surround SouNd bringing the MOTAB to town...

@luvit#CommissMadore-"Manure all over the place". Just like the parks!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails... Lol

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere...if us peons get one, too??? If you want a fee holiday, then don't support the current LPA on the crossing project...8P'

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am not supporting that project in its current form, I always said so. Check out fees they slap on us if we want to remodel. Ridiculous! But developers get a holidays? Nope. My remodel supports the workers and creates jobs also. Let us be fair.
Got to help spouse quickly with deer fence. Maybe it keeps out a politician also, muhaha.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

* did you get the letters to show up so large? I've been trying to figure that out for awhile. I remember years ago doing that, but I haven't been able to replicate the action. Any tips?*

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.

Are U kidN? Giving U this kind of power? The Power Of Caps, Bold, AND Giant print? No way Hose'.

Cat already abuses the bold...

He'd hear the same thing...


Hey...they need to get this thing going...natives are restless!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Aw...come on now, nailingit...pretty please????

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.

Good point. The fee holiday should be for ALL new construction (remodeling included), not just those they want to attract to Clark County.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The cat would destroy this place. What was left after you. No-No, for the sake of forum security I can't let this info fall into the wrong hands.

And besides, our relationship, although better, is tenuous at best. What if you take this power and use it against me?

There's no defense against Cap Bold & Giant. In the wrong handssss

Here we go!!!

It's on!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nail@crapo#davesanidiot- You would think he would at least read ^ on the basics. Amazing!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal don't have to share with me. I wouldn't have used it against you...and that's a promise. In fact, I'd rather forego the technique.

Right now I'm listening to Mr. John Karpinski...wonderful that he's standing up for the rights of those with disabilities as his were almost trampled. Even Stuart blundered on this one...but he was humbled by it and realized his mistake. A good reminder to all in government. Oh how I wish that was a national telecast moment.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ohhh man! The Crane lady is gonna speak pretty soon! She gives me the creeps!

Remember House On The Haunted Hill? The scene in the dungeon when the lady floats across the room.


Vinnie paid the Price!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Oh how I wish that was a national telecast moment.*

Not even a Trivial Pursuit moment!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! THE CRANE!!!!!!!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO CAROLYN!!! She hit it on the nose! WE NEED FAMILY WAGE JOBS IN CLARK COUNTY...especially if TriMet wants us to support them!!! (Just think how that would've been in large bold, italicized letters...8))

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

She'll be in your dreams tonight nailingit..ahahhahahhhahahahah

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The crane has flown the coup!

Hey now...whose the lady in blue?

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think the cellar is funniest place to be right now.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vartainian looks just like his FB avatar.

That's all I'm saying.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I second that, luvithere!!! Any bets on if their backsides are getting sore while sitting in those chairs? Could you imagine standing the entire session???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some good opposition points brought up about the fees process!

Wow...Madore admits he's making mistakes as a greenhorn commish. How many new politicians do that these days???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We do have good seats guys, boy some of these close ups can be tough.

I'm not seeing the cat or manthou yet.

I don't so think anyway...

I wish we had a buzzer or something to hit when we think it's one of them.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Wow...Madore admits he's making mistakes as a greenhorn commish. How many new politicians do that these days???*

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.

He forgot this wasn't Face Book time and couldn't retract it!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems to me the Fee holiday is a bad choice. I believe I'm in agreement with some of the people speaking that a straight-across fee reduction for everyone would be a better choice.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jim Moeller's gonna speak in a few!

Will he be adorned in one of his timeless three piece ensembles this evening?

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh oh...Rep. Moeller will be speaking soon. Watch the body language he shows with two of the commissioners!!!!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hehehe... guess what Moeller wants to comment on!!! Bet ya it has to do with Senator Benton...ya think??? A no show for this discussion...maybe he had to do a pit stop.


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Body Language-He Shows-Jim Moeller---Down Gene!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.

My guess...a casual dress shirt and suit.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

D P...nice job squeezing in the CRC issue. We need to hold onto what permanent family-wage jobs are here and improve on family-wage jobs rather than relying on temporary jobs for those coming from out of state for the crossing project or for a dozen more mini malls and minimum wage jobs.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I love you David... blah blah blah ....Thank you David ... blah blah blah...I love you David .... blah bla.....

blah blah & blah....if drivel were a crime...Hey! Temple Lentz is scheduled.

Let's get through the jobs issue and ON TO THE RED MEAT!!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, deer fence in, so back to this. That's what I have been saying. Give fee holiday or a cut to everybody. Permits for remodel are a complete sham. We did and paid like crazy, still don't know for what. So why a holiday for another developer to put in another subdivision where they cram ten houses on half an acre?
Anybody spot a holy man yet?

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.

I wasn't doubting your stance. When you shared your comment, I listened to your message and I was in agreement once I understood just who was benefiting and who was burdened from the fee holidays. This needs to be re-written. Too many loopholes...further disabling the people.


nails...Temple Lentz Rocked!

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Temple nailed it for sure! What a force of nature!!

Like a Twister!!

Helen Hunt--STAND DOWN!


crapola- Is that you with the starsnstripes tie?

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

First Rep. Moeller, now the president of Identity Clark County is a no show??? It is my guess that if they both show up when it's time to comment on Don Benton's appointment as Director of Environmental Services, it's all too obvious the Good Ol' Boyz Klub is running full bore on a smear campaign against the Columbia LightRailCrossing Opposition...and that my what I've been talking about from the get go. We'll soon see if my intuition is correct!

And if I am...I won't say "I told you so." If I am wrong...then I stand corrected.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I believe Manthou has spoken based on what she shared with the cellar earlier.

I won't be surprised if Mielke excuses himself after the Hearing portion of the meeting.

Lentz outstanding!

langenthal — May 7, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Hounds are a Howlin'!!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal- I think it's why he went for rule suspension. Maybe it's a good thing. His hand wringing could start a fire!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

How many times has Obama been asked to resign???


Mister "donor" is misinformed. The $850 million isn't for bridge and highway infrastructure. It's for loo rail. The bottleneck is at the Rose Quarter, not the I-5 Bridge. Throw the $850 million into the bridge and highway infrastructure...not loo rail.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah Barnes! Bangladesh baby!! Beat it out of em' Barnesy!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Barnes was off subject and it took Stuart to say something (after the fact).


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Only two to go...then the fireworks???

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gee - Didn't know the running commentary was going on. Debbie Peterson was remarkably good. Temple Lentz was great. But the guy who came a few speakers later - brown hair and beard, light yellow shirt, a member of the local Repub committee - blew anything Temple said out of the water. A short and sweet dissertation on basic economic principles - Fees get passed to the people.

Stuart has been completely in control all night - Very good. Until the end - those two old coots and that sneaky young dude who said Madore should resign should have been gavelled down - where's Harris when we needed her???

Montague is grandstanding - and also pulled a sneaky one, which got him timed out.

Oh yeah - What this was all about - they definitely need to go back and crunch the info presented in the beginning - then come back at the next meeting with what they plan on doing.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is the crowd going to get surly? When do they get to hammer M&M; and Don Benton?

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Montague is a good speaker for sure...and he chose his words well. Too bad we all could see his little dig. He needs to work on his sneakiness as a leading member of the GOBK!!! One to go (that is, unless they have some other sneak plays).

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madores taking names, numbers! Holy Crap! Meilke's admittedly confused!

Take away his mirror till after the meeting!

Madore's taking the heat of Meilke! He won't bring it to open forum under the guise of jobs!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore is trying to shove this down everybody's throat tonight! Mielke is an idiot!. Stuart is trying to hold off until all the info is in but Madore is not buying it.

I feel so sorry for Stuart.

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**OMG STOP THE STONEWALLING get on with it!!!!!**

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@CoMMish#ANger-God help Meike! Someone remind him of where he is! How many times will he say he's confused? Call an ambulance! Cut the feedback! The place is going down!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh Oh - Mielke's confusion appears to be feigned - that was a pretty good summation of why they should defer a decision from tonight. He handed Madore a chance to back off, but Madore seems set on driving on. Hmmm....

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Does that man even have a brain cell that works????

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This isn't looking right. The crowd is rumbling...Meilke makes a motion to further his uncertainty!!

Motion Approved!!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore just got slapped down by Mielke and Stuart - Doing the hard stare Mielke's way. But a smart recovery by voting to go along with them.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Somebody shut Madore up. He just got shot down. Too bad so sad. 10 minute break.

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Laughing at Madore, the audience sounds like a laugh track!

Time for a toke and some organic marshmallows.

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal could Madore turn them down? It only makes sense to review all the information...the input they've received.

Tee minus Ten. Soooo...any bets on what is about to happen?

Will they allow everyone on a ginormous list to speak?

Will the crowds remain calm?

Or Will they adjourn prematurely and have CCSO and VPD come in and work on crowd control???

And finally...

Will anything be solved tonight?

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

laughing@Madore@Laughing@Madore@laughing@Madore@laughing@Madore@la.....**stop it!**

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore wants unity?.....this is way too good. Mr. My way or the highway?

Thinketh he learned a lesson or two tonight so far? Bet you he thought fee waivers would just pass as he wants them.

Now for the other topic.
Best soap in years: as the stomach turns.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder what happened to Meilke? Maybe he didn't get his nap today. Or maybe he didn't get his marching orders in time from DM. Then there is the third choice-- Longshot that it is, he might have found his cajones. Again, longggggg shot

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hate to tell you, but though he fumble bumbles his words a bit, Mielke pulled a very smart move there at the end. I suspect the fee holiday (or elimination) will pass, but this gives time to refine the decision presentation. Madore is the stupid one - he came across as being blinded by his need for control and for beating Stuart; it wasn't until the very end that he got this toned down a bit.

The other thing I picked up on was that Stuart and Mielke were able to act professionally despite their differences and the recent fight. On the other hand, Stuart made no attempt to conceal his quite obvious disdain for Madore.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.

Funny!!! Maybe his backside was getting sore after sitting so long. Anybody notice if he'd been drinking a lot of water??? I was wondering when they'd take a break. THREE hours and 40 minutes is a long time for some.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey nailingit, I see CRANE made it back....

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Get em' Barnesy!!! Bangladesh all the way it home!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I'm off - 4 a.m. comes early, and I have to read myself to sleep. I gather the next section is the open floor. Hopefully we can download this section tomorrow. And I wonder if Jim Moeller shows up? Stuart is asking for courtesy - fat chance of this!!!

Where's the librarian???

Who's this guy - Ed Barnes, I think? Is this HolyC? Sounds like him.

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have never seen anyone in a position as important to us in Clark County be as mealy mouthed as comm. Mielke.What a piece of work.Thanks Golden for putting me on to the link.I will be honest with all of you.I voted for Madore.I wish I could take the vote back.I voted that way because of his stance on the CRC.I still stand against the CRC because of the light rail.I can see what it will do to the down town core.I have to much to lose and nothing to gain from light rail.I think that the speaker that impressed me the most was Mr. Starky with his most honest presentation.What a lot of guts that man has.Nail I don't always agree with you,but your humor makes me laugh.Thank you.

timerick — May 7, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thecook@husong and larry's#job opening...

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I got to stream this and it's not doing its job well. Hope we can get to download it tomorrow also. The tweets on te main story on this are pretty good and give a good picture of the mess

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wait!!! HolyC is here!!! Why not at the meeting? After getting on Goldie earlier today....

roger — May 7, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, easy to be in forum with mobile something and be down there also

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Any bets on what Crain is going to say?

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ELISI#OMG- the CRANE *is* making a return. Will she table dance for M&M;? Or perch herself on Stuarts lap#projectilevomiting

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh poor me. Never mind!

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@forum#Cranehastocoverherears!!! Someone assist her!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No nailingit, she will do a strip tease for you in your dreams tonight! ahahahhahahhaa

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wish someone would put a camera on Madore when these people are frying him.

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have had enough fun for one night.Crane was predictable.

timerick — May 7, 2013 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@The lady with the sunglasses#you nailed it!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What, no Lew Waters? Maybe passed his bedtime. I know it's getting to mine. Please keep me updated. Thanks.

hawkeye — May 7, 2013 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@timerick#Crane was predictable.##frighteningly so!!



nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sounds like we just heard Manthou and holyc speak in the past 10 minutes. Either that or these people were channelling their minds.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Now that I have mentioned Crane will be in your dreams tonight, she will be...AHAHHAHA

You know she will be...awww the power of suggestion... ;)

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit, this is for you...


Sweet dreams tonight!!!


goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ladyinblue!!!Perhaps the best rant tonight! It's all about love!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Golden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 10:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou B and Stephanie Rice are doing a great job on Twitter tonight.

langenthal — May 7, 2013 at 10:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow...looks like it's hit the fan!!! Funny how Stuart...mister bad ready to adjourn because potty words were said. I've been checking the names of several commenting people...and the one gentleman was right. They are from other areas outside Clark County. skepticism is taking hold again.

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Royce baby is NOT happy!!!!!!!

ELISI — May 7, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Rats I got to get up early. Keep posting so I can rad in morning.
Langenthal, yea. The tweets are great.

luvithere — May 7, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Please stay with this until you have heard Ms Lauderbach [sp]. She quietly speaks at each meeting since the prayer issue came up. I have such respect for her.I don't know her.

langenthal — May 7, 2013 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Could we take a moment to ----- READ EACH OTHER'S HEARTS? David Madore will thank you for it.

If you couldn't make it to 12:33 am, try to watch the end on CVTV after it is posted.

langenthal — May 8, 2013 at 12:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 7, 2013 at 11:53 p.m.

Not sure if that'll happen the way you say. Most likely, there will be a review of the hiring process and decisions will be made. Remember this too...IF he stays in his position, Benton has a little less than three months to prove himself. The eyes, they are watchin'.

Regarding M&M...Mielke;'s still the same. He looked a bit exhausted from everything, but not much else. His decision not to follow Madore's request to move forward with the fee holiday decision was in my opinion...a shock...and I'm glad he weighed the options and made the right decision. I believe this fee holiday is financially detrimental to the Clark County people.

Madore got a good lesson in county politics last night. Because he's new to the political arena at the capacity of commish...they'll most likely give him some slack but kindly remind him that there's rules to follow and he'll be watched and scrutinized like a hawk waiting to pounce on its kill.

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So manthou...did you get a chance to speak last night??? If you did...well, I have a couple of people in mind, but I won't try to point them out, out of respect for your desire to remain anonymous.

holyc...what about you??? Did you get to speak your mind at the microphone?

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ROYCE POLLARD, give it up. You not have Clark County's best interest at heart, Mr Grandfather of the GOBK!!! The only interests you have are your own. You'd made that clear many, many moons ago.

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I missed the early show here last night because I was formulating my comment to post to the USCG website asking them to rule against the CRC. If you're planning on sending your own comments in, two bits of advice.

1- Their primary concern is river traffic and the effect on this economy. It probably would help to stay with this theme; comments about the big quake and the bridge collapsing, or the perceived need for alternate forms of public transportation, should be irrelevant to their decision process.

2- If you want to share your comments with anyone else (like us here!), then copy and paste them elsewhere before posting your comment. I thought about this after the fact and, on trying to see the 8 comments they said were posted, discovered the small print that noted it could be a few weeks before they get around to processing our input and posting comments. And do pay attention to the part that says to write down your comment receipt code (whatever they called it) - if this is going to be anything like the BPA I5 Corridor comments, one could search for hours and never find their post.

roger — May 8, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...*even if you fail to answer some of my questions without showing anything to back up your statements as well.*

goldenoldie — May 7, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.


mr_basil_seal — May 8, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A reminder about the quote by Royce Pollard as Mayor of the City of Vancouver during his 2007 State of the City Address:

*“I've said it before, but it bears repeating – Vancouver and Clark County residents have the cheapest buy-in to one of the most successful light-rail systems in the world, the MAX system. There is over $5 billion invested in light rail across the river. We can tap into that system at a very minimal cost. We’d be foolish not to. The bi-state Columbia River Crossing initiative is making plans for the future of our community for 50 years and beyond. This project should not happen without integrating light rail that comes into downtown Vancouver. If the final alternative doesn’t have a light rail component, I will not support it."*

(the same guy who called for a $20 vehicle license tax to support other transportation projects in the city)

A very minimal cost??? $170 million later with nothing to show for except an LPA that doesn't meet the guidelines set forth by the US Coast Guard and an $850 million dollar TAXPAYER funded, federal funding for loo rail only??? Then there's the cost to maintain and operate the dilapidated choo choo system. Who's going to pay for THAT one, Royce??? You have been quoted in history that you will not support the crossing project if the final alternative doesn't have light rail, sir.

You had a right to speak...but before pointing the finger at need to look in the mirror, Mr. P.

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 8, 2013 at 6:29 a.m.

Better time spent by you, even though it was a lighthearted discussion amongst the cellar dwellers!!! Thanks for the tips. I just might submit mine this morning AND attend the meeting next month...just to hear what people are saying.

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I tried following the tweet comments at the article on the facebook side, and after a short time decided that is about the most overrated and useless form of information sharing/public commentary ever devised. Afterward I came here and saw Nails' interpretation of that medium. Far superior product, Sir. You may be a Liberal rabble rouser, but you once again demonstrate that we have a better grasp of the various aspects of the debate "down here."

And NO, I'm not going to provide cites to back this grandiose claim up with.

roger — May 8, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning all, just checking in before work. Did anybody see Lew Waters there last night? He's always so vocal online I thought he might be ONE of those supporters. I understand there were only three. Anyway, thanks for the updates everyone, I hope they post the video so I can see the end.


hawkeye — May 8, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Fun to come back from the fish fry last night to see our own version of Twitter!

Good energy, I agree, holycrapola. I dare anyone to accuse Clark County of being boring. The Commission and the CRC controversy show me that our citizens are alert, smart, and hard to fool.

Good to see the young people last night speak out. I sat with, among others, a field biologist, in his early 30's, who was so informed and passionate about this county's environmental treasures.

I did attend the tail end of the RTC meeting folks and can tell you that Clark County will most likely get that LR vote that Vancouver was denied. David Madore promised it, Mielke will second it, so hang tight.

Did you read that, goldie? :)

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Good advice on that Coast Guard survey.

Lew Waters was there. He did not speak, though.

It can be very intimidating to try to be articulate in front of a microphone and camera, so I really hand it to anyone, especially opposing commenters who were clearly in the minority, for stepping up in the spotlight and facing those commissioners as they literally look down on you. They are up on a dais, a few feet above. Add the packed house and explosive energy and, well, wow.

Anyone willing to place bets today on whether Mielke and Madore rescind their offer to Benton? Any bets on whether Benton takes the hint and withdraws so his buddies can save face?

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou & crapo- Thank you for your soldiering and due diligence.

Watching from the cozy confines of LazyBoy & Plasmaland, it was EXHAUSTING!

I can only imagine how you two feel. Did any other Dweller attend?


roger — May 8, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.

Thanks much roger.


"*You may be a Liberal rabble rouser,*..."

I've been promoted!!

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, look what I found.

Did any of you see this alternative plan for the CRC that was floated by a guy in a guest column in Oregonlive?

I rather like it:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou last night was nothing like what we went through years ago with the county for a neighborhood park and widening of street for not more than a block in my neighborhood. The people were allowed to speak, where many times with us that never happened.
There would be 3 to 5 of us each Wednesday go to speak. Took 12 yrs and us annexed into the city to get it done. SO now instead of looking into 6+ acres of nasty dangerous under bush that harbored drug abusers, bums and yes sex offenders, (saw one with my own eyes) one lane street in front of my home, we now have a wonderful park that families come with their little ones to enjoy the equipment, play T-ball, practice soccer, even have had a few wedding reception and family reunions there. Now it is much safer for the kids to walk through to school or to catch the buses to the middle and high schools.
Anyway, I'm glad people were allowed to speak last night unlike yrs ago when we were silenced.

ELISI — May 8, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Manthou, good link. Here' s a smart guy in the know with a nifty solution. Sadly, they will never consider it. Too much thought went into it.
Stayed up too late with our local storm last night, paying the price now. Need nap.

luvithere — May 8, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"“I am honored to be chosen for this important position. I look forward to protecting and enhancing our precious natural resources here in Clark County while at the same time streamlining our permitting process to expedite job creation for our neighbors. "

as quoted on L. Waters' blog

So, when will we see his 'action plan'?

mr_basil_seal — May 8, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi @ 8:57 am: Great personal story of tenacity! It is so easy to get tired and give up. People usually do that when success is just around the corner. When you can feed off the energy of a group, though, that helps keep you going.

luvithere: Oh, yeah. I am an early riser, so last night was hard. Some of the best parts on video involved the commissioner communications, especially the one at the end, about 12:20 am. Val and Dan Ogden were there, bless their ancient souls, but could not stay to speak, even though they signed up, due to the agenda sleight-of-hand. I think they have an assistant to help get them both. So many elderly left. That delay ploy was despicable, but, revealing. M and M are truly the gifts that keep on giving. They are so arrogant in their certainty, so dismissive of expert advice (even from attorneys) that they will surely slip into legal, maybe even criminal troubles together soon.

I am not being hyperbolic.

When it happens, I will remind everyone that I called it. :)

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:49 a.m

There is a reason why there is no map and overlay with his proposal.

mr_basil_seal — May 8, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

basil: Please explain. My brain is still asleep this am.

goldie at 6:05 am: Just saw this early post of yours. Thanks. No need to hide. You probably guessed correctly. I did not speak until after 10:00 pm, and I was the one who presented the "Larry Kwarskick parable" to them. I forgot my librarian glasses because my sunglasses were perched on my noggin. :) I did not want to scold, but probably did. Those who have the skill to lecture with humor absolutely rocked last night. There were a couple of HR directors who did that so well. One ended with a job application process ad from an "unnamed" corporation (one that Don Benton never had to undergo with CC) and then named the origin of the ad at the end: US Digital. He brought the house down.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I forgot my librarian glasses because my sunglasses were perched on my noggin. :)*

@The lady with the sunglasses#you nailed it!

nailingit — May 7, 2013 at 10:16 p.m.

I wondered! Great job!

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice to see Matt is still looking in. Matt, drop by once in awhile & tell us how you really feel. (post Columbian:)

Matt @wastro

I swore I'd ignore the high comedy of #clarkwa politics, but @col_cityhall's coverage of the #benton insanity last night was mental catnip.

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Sorry! No can do. Either you assume the challenge and responsibility of being part of the solution or you are part of the problem and on the corrupted Madore and his cronies side.*

so hc just where was your voice last night dude? you said you were going to make history, where were you? seen the cameras and got camera shy did ya dude? or is it that you sat at home and watched like many others did? my bet is you never went anywhere near the meeting last night. fraud and liar clown, stir the pot big mouth no show.

jasonb — May 8, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:11 a.m.

A vote by the people of Clark County has been done before...and the powers that be ignored us. Two more votes related to operations and maintenance of loo rail clearly showed a vested interest to keep MAX out of Vancouver....again, ignored by the powers that be and they included folks on both sides of the ticket with majority rules to overstep the word of the people who voted for them.

Now...the tables are turned. The Repub majority in the State Senate is poised and ready to deny further funding beyond the $80+ million...and the $80+ million will only be made available AFTER the decision of the USCG and will be used for redesign needs IF the USCG denies the 116' clearance. Kitzhaber can say no LRT, no bridge...but it's the Feds who have the final say.

And regarding the clearance issues...yes, Thompson Metalfab might be compensated for lost profits or even to move away from Clark County...but what message does this provide for other heavy haulers who were thinking of relocating here in our county, the same who would also need the waterways in order to ship their products? Should we deny Thompson MetalFab the right to produce their product because of loo rail and should the people who work for these companies on the waterfront be laid off or be forced to move out of the county they call home???

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad to hear we will be able to vote. Thanks for the info. I only wish it would make an impact at the federal level. It hasn't yet. Lahood hadn't a clue regarding the project till after he'd read the "CRC fact sheet." hardly enough to school him on the project. he really cared.

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: This CRC thing is so messed up at this point, I have no gut feeling (which is so unusual for me) as to which way it will fall. I have got to get to the Coast Guard survey today. It appears that their stamp of approval will be a key.

Gotta post this recent gem from Temple Lentz (she was a shining star last night: someone with real presence and poise and humor in front of a camera. She should do stand up.)

She nailed the hypocrisy Madore radiated last night (why would anyone endure a political job in these times?). I do not think he is self-aware about it, but this is spot on:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 8, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.


8 If that doesn't get them to stop pointing out all of the legal, economic, procedural, policy-related, and ethical holes in all of your plans and actions, remind them that you're the one in charge now. The people might have just spent 6 hours telling you what they think, but they need to remember: You speak for the people. You're the only one who knows what the people want, no matter what the people actually say.

mr_basil_seal — May 8, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hc who says I wasn't there? lot you know dude. just cause I chose not to speak doesn't mean I wasn't front and center in the room.

did I stay until the end? only I know, not you or anyone else.

you said you were going to have your say, to 'make history' well I saw nothing of that last night. where was that angry hc attitude at all evening into the night hc? where was it? blow heart big mouth that talks the talk but don't walk the talk. imo

jasonb — May 8, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

lol your comment is typical. reminds me of a top gear episode where clarkson, may and hammond drove a car into a car wash, somehow the car wash caught on fire and you hear may asking 'what do we do now' and clarkson replied 'just run away james, just run away'

you incite chaos, then you just 'run away' thats what clowns are known for. go join those that dance like an egyptian in portland *see video from yesterday* thats about all you got dude. talk s and run away.

today instead of counting ants I shall rid my yard of slugs

jasonb — May 8, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**State Sen. Don Benton’s malodorous appointment**
Posted by Lance Dickie

"Benton went in all hip deep, accepting an appointment by two Clark County GOP commissioners to lead the county’s Department of Environmental Services.

Democratic Commissioner Steve Stuart was dumbfounded by his Republican colleagues, Commissioners David Madore and Tom Mielke, would fill an important post without at least seeking other applications. Stuart told them what they did “stinks of political cronyism. Stinks!” The Vancouver Columbian has audio links to a curious moment in local government.

Madore and Mielke said that Benton was fully qualified and they did not need to open the job to candidates. You decide. Here is Benton’s work history from his online legislative biography:"

mr_basil_seal — May 8, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I read that LTE in The Oregonian last month - There's also another person (also with a credential or two) who seconds his proposal a few days later. That double leaf bascule proposal makes sense and would (I think) be much more popular with the people downtown if they only heard about it. There is no need for any more height than the current bridge, which ought to satisfy the people concerned that the new bridge will block out Mount Hood and dominate the eastern skyline. But it would require bridge lifts, which means it was ruled out.

roger — May 8, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Haven't you ever had children? Ignore them and they eventually go away.

I usually ignore this stupid crap, but you seem to be letting jasonb get under your skin. And he reminds me of someone who kept picking away at someone else here a year or two ago - eventually Alan (?) lost it, said some stupid shit, and got permanently banned.

Mind you, some of your bombastics can get irritating. But I can't stand those pesky little yapper dogs.

roger — May 8, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That editorial by the Olympian is outstanding, see link on the C.

luvithere — May 8, 2013 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes - The Columbian is going to town with all the articles from the Puget Sound newspapers excoriating Benton and lamenting how our poor backward County allows this cronyism. It is common practice, at every level of government!

Don Benton is not a good fit - at least, not if you want someone who cares for the environment more than for issuing on demand building permits.

But there's more to this. The people are venting on the M&Ms; and how they want to do business. The C keeps trying to steer the conversation to Benton. Perhaps a little revenge due to the work he's doing to kill the CRC?

roger — May 8, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Roger, that might be true but Madore is just as dead set against it. Or is it because Lou perceives Benton as state senator to be more powerful in stopping this?
Or is it because folks are really so tickets off about the anointment?

luvithere — May 8, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I picked you out last night both times. You did a great job. You are able to remain pleasant while making your point. Not an easy thing to do in a public and heated situation.

Vancouver Vector gave you your own hashtag on Twitter!

langenthal — May 8, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou!!! I knew that was you. So calm and composed. Great job! I really wish they would have put Madore on camera when everybody was jumping down his throat. It would have been great to see his Cheshire Cat grin fade. Geeze, I hate that smile. Couldn't believe Meilke had the cajones to say he didn't understand what he was supposed to vote on. Dave kept pushing but nobody was buying. I'm so proud of Stuart, he handled everything quite well, I thought. Wish there were more of him around.

hawkeye — May 8, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

David. You should have worn short sleeves last night.

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: One of the persons who sat with me last night was that sweet elderly lady you like. The one who always spanks the commissioners so genteel-like for the prayer business. Another guy was a good friend of Kevin Gray. He had not wanted to speak, but we talked him into it, for his friend's sake. He was the one, tall, tall guy at the end who pointed a finger at Mielke and said what he did to Kevin was "criminal." Cathartic. It might have been certainly illegal, but, we will never know because the county paid Gray off and I am sure he signed a release of liability for it.

hawkeye: I got to see their faces, and I focused on Madore and Mielke. I have whiplash today for going back and forth so much. They were cold, cold. Madore took copious notes, which probably was his calming strategy. Whatever.

There is a real psychology to the physical set up and you don't realize until you get to the table to speak. The dais is very high and these guys loom over you like a sinister Lannister on the Iron Throne. I thought: hmmmm. What a strategic advantage.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just in case Clark County crumbles with these dramas, I checked out Orenco Station on my way to the coast today.

It really is sanitized, standardized. Pleasantville. Movie set cute. There is enough variety: houses, condos, row houses (like Chicago, Montreal and the East Village without the flaws) green spaces and a New Seasons within walking distance. Old people. Young couples. Families with little children. Dogs. Light rail ready to go. No bridge.

I clocked it: starting from there would knock one half hour from my trip to the coast.

Definitely not Vancouver. Not much diversity.

I do like Clark County. Let's all hope for the best.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - How large was the crowd? It seems strange The C made no effort to come up with an estimate.

roger — May 8, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My opinion means squat any more. I've faithfully voted...and voted for what I thought was the right choice, only to find out I was sadly mistaken. Any active participation in our community...gone to waste IMO. If you stand up for what you believe in, you're labeled either by the government or by people opposing your stance and you are ridiculed.

Our politicians...all out to make a name for themselves at the expense of the people. Our vote...a worthless piece of shit! The US Dollar has hit an all time low yet our president is sending aide to Syria and other nations...never mind that the people here need help, but the government is all too pent up in spending what they don't have to suit their pet projects and are cutting necessary assistance to the people of our nation. Our people are still in warring nations, dying every day. What I once believed was an honest and fair nation where our leaders listened...

I don't think that any more. Honesty and integrity is no longer.

And food...loaded with toxins, real government monitoring, hence the reason people continue to become gravely ill and even die. Companies in cahoots with our government poison us...and we can't do a damned thing about it. Instead...they continue to get away with murder.

To own a home these days...doesn't mean anything, especially when you watch an older couple lose their home with no choice but to file bankruptcy because his job was downsized and she was unable to help bring money in. Now, they're forced to swallow what pride is left in them.

Seniors...many will starve yet no one will hear their cries. Little children won't have dinner on the table...their stomachs aching from hunger.

I just don't know what to think any more. Maybe it's a good time for me to take a vacation away from the forum for awhile.

play nicely

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


#thanksmom was your hashtag.

I noticed DM would keep his head down & act like he was studiously writing & then glance up after a speaker started. Unfortunately, camera was focused on him rarely and only a few seconds at a time.

I watch every City Council, SWBH, BoCC, and transit meeting so I have seen DM's changes. That awful phony smile has faded & it's almost gone.

I have been following Friends of Clark County to see what follow up there will be to last night.

DM tried to make some changes to meeting procedures at today's board time so that article will be interesting when it goes up.

Enjoy your time at the coast.

langenthal — May 8, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Quite interesting last night. I wanted to be there but I didn't feel like showing up. What was the excellent jobs & the good jobs people were doing that Madore was talking about? Kinda funny that ppl r freakin about what the local gvt is doing to them now. So what rock did you come out from under? This has been going on 4 how long now? So what is the distraction, whats gonna pass in gvt that they r covering for this issue?

Holycrapola blame steve jobs...blame a dead guy. HA thats why when I write it looks like a 14y old writing.

andrecht — May 8, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, no need to give up. Holy is right, things have to change or we will all sink. So we start where we can, locally. So lets push and shove and rant and scream and hold them accountable. It might be the start we are looking for. First the county, then the state, then it spreads, then...
Never give up. Never. Or they win.
We might have reached the turning point locally. Folks got up and got involved. Might have put the brakes on the wannabe king.
Holy, I love my iPad but at forum times I want to crush it, so I know how ya feel

luvithere — May 8, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — May 8, 2013 at 6:26 p.m

Sorry. That wasn't intentional.

langenthal — May 8, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: You said it!

goldie: It is disgusting, I know. If the like of us on here give up, then we're in trouble.


Someone with a FB account, can you help me? Roger? Nail? Jim Rourk posted a message, that seemingly came from Royce Pollard. There is a meeting on Saturday at 3:30 (Royce gave military time, so it could be from him).

Could someone check Royce's FB page and see if this is on it:

JOIN ME THERE,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ROYCE.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The main hearing room, where I was, had a capacity of 220 and it was jammed to the gills, breaking all fire rules.

They opened the folding doors to the adjacent room and that was full, too. It is a smaller room.

Then they had folks in the Dragon Fly Cafe. And people were milling around outside.

Temple Lentz estimated the crowd at 300, and that is about right, as holycrapola said. I think it could have been more.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good Lord, this can't get any worse, can it? Tell me I fell down a rabbit hole:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:05 p.m.

I don't do the Face Book thing. Yet. So far my resistance has not been futile!

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 8:45 p.m.

This guy is amazing! He is stoking the fires of recall.

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, yes Royce posted that on his FB page and yes 1530 is 3:30.

Had son pull up his FB and check for me.

ELISI — May 8, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*I just don't know what to think any more.*

goldenoldie — May 8, 2013 at 6:19 p.m.

Co'mere goldenoldie...gimme a hug.

Come on now. Rest your head...things aren't as bad as they are they.

Now sit yourself down with some warm apple spice tea, some good cheese and a Claussen pickle.

Maybe read a good book, pen a poem, open a family picture album, (if it's not too tragic) or watch an old rerun from a favorite show.

Tomorrow's another day and it is what it is. All we can do is ride it out the best way we can.

And yeah, I *might* even let you in on the giant print thing!

nailingit — May 8, 2013 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: You are so helpful. Thanks.

Don't you just hate it that so many people FB and, if you don't have a page (I refuse), you are left scrambling. But, that was the point, I think. Making a small minority of us "crave" to be in.

If Royce is doing this, then (here goes my skeptical cynic self) he saw a political advantage yesterday when he saw the crowds at the Commission Meeting. Could he be planning a comeback through a recall?

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, like I said last night,I voted for Madore because I thought change needed to happen in our county.I was wrong with my vote.I feel the same with the city.I voted for Tim.I was wrong with that one also.I'm not batting very good.We have put up with the good old guys for so long in this city and county that I thought a change needed to be made.I still do think the change needs to be made.I didn't think that it would be like this.I have lived in this town for 64 years.It has always been run by a select few.How do we take it back for us?Holyc wants a take over.Maybe he is right.But we have a lot of good people here that just go with the flow.What do we do to give this place back to the people?Tell me how without some kind of rebellion.

timerick — May 8, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome manthou.

My point was earlier when this mess with M&M; broke is that if locally government is IMO this corrupt, what do all of you think federal is?

Now that in the hearings on Benghazi have broke wide open and we are finding out the dirty truth and the media pretty much covering up the trial of Gosnell on the horrors of killing aborted babies that were alive, by cutting their spines at the neck, I am truly disgusted with government local, state, fed and mankind to allow such things to happen.

ELISI — May 8, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: I know that there are so many corrupt things going on Federally, too. People in power abuse it and use it to their advantage. And we do have to be careful about the media: they live to get us riled up.

timerick: I started out with a Tim Leavitt sign in my yard, then went to a few rallies and decided he was milking the No Tolls sentiment and would likely cave. I took the sign down and did not vote for him. Madore scared me because I thought he was autocratic in his business style which does not work for county government. Last night we saw how he changed the wording in a staff member's document without disclosing the change until forced to, and how he kept putting off public comment as if the 300 people in the rooms were serfs waiting for our gruel. Now, we see that he wants to make sure citizen comment is always last.

I have never, ever attended a gathering like the one last night. Well, maybe during the late 1960's. People are upset from all sides and there was some interesting joining of forces there, in spite of what you might see from poor Carolyn Crain, who always sees the dark side.

Many Madore voters were there and they were disappointed. He is moving way too fast and wants to ram things through without proper vetting and research.

I guess I will go to the Saturday re-call meeting to see what is up. Re-call is very difficult to do in our state.

manthou — May 8, 2013 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Also from Pollards facebook page --




Interesting page - Only used occasionally, but has over 1000 "friends" - and Jim Moeller headed that list (Not sure on the meaning; on a couple of other pages I use the latest visitors show up first). Old Royce is definitely a Dem, though.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Woke up swearing that I will give it a rest for a day or two, then read latest on Madore and his attempts to silence the public and move along cramming his vision down our throats.

Disgusting and disgusted!

So, right back at it. I might have to check out the Saturday meeting myself.

Elisi, corruption and incompetence, ego and power trips start here and go all the way up to DC. So let's start here and show them how Clark county deals with it.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Whole lot of Alice Through The Looking Glass references going down.

As for Royce Pollard - I suspect you're right. If they can pull a recall off, I wonder if his hat goes into the ring? Or is this too "small potatoes" for him? Maybe Benton's position in the Senate?

Royce Pollard has been calling himself a consultant since losing the mayorship - No idea who or what, but every so often his name pops up in an Oregonian CRC article. Is it just possible he's getting a paycheck from that source (the CRC)? Several months after losing the election he was still bitter about Leavitt's bait and switch tactic - Then he goes virtually silent. Once in a blue moon he shows up speaking in support of the CRC in its current configuration. Now, after seeing his facebook page for the first time, I can see he's heavily allied with our elected Dems up in Oly.

I'd say he's been bought by the same crowd that owns Moeller, Cleveland,, over there in the 49th. A lot of people here want to downplay the CRC, and claim people spend too much time discussing it. There is some very big money tied to it - with the redevelopment projects, property acquisitions and sales, etc. etc. Benton, and to a lesser degree Madore and Mielke, represent a threat to this crowd. Those three have to be idiots to pull this hiring stunt at this time - the backlash will be diverted by the local Dem party to the CRC in an attempt to influence the legislature.

Very interesting days ahead.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc, luvit, manthou, nails and everybody else, I felt compelled to share this comment to you...the last one for a while till I see a change in the pace of the articles on the Columbian which has proven itself to be quite biased in presentation these days...a possible detrimental turn they've taken which could further hinder their ability to remain in business in my opinion.

I don't condone the actions of our commissioners...all three. In fact, this is one of the reasons why I am in complete disgust....not only with them but with this Bird Cage Liner who claims they're fair and balanced, even though they have presented dozens of articles slamming politicians on one side of the ticket, yet hardly anything against the other side and Lord knows...both sides are corrupt and there's a lot of news they could be sharing but haven't. I'm sick of the corruption nationally as well and I'm truly sick of the bullying, strong-arm tactics I am witnessing by those who are misinformed and misguided...and it's not only in government, but in forums all across the as well. And the Bird Cage Liner...they have allowed one particular State Representative to continue with his biased rants and personal attacks on the facebook side (for which I am beginning my own personal boycott of the C in protest) as of today)...violating enough of the rules to make one puke and he's still posting his trash talk...and it just happens to be of the same political side which has fed into the slaughter of another political division not only in government, but in our community as well...thanks in part to our very own Governor who made a recent suggestive attack in a statement when he came to Vancouver. Our nation's government is the laughing stock of the world. If Clark County is any indication of why...I can understand the views the world has of us.

Because of what I'd said in my comment last night...doesn't mean I'm quitting. Holyc...I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not just a couch potato activist as you jokingly stated in so many words. I'm not like you when I say I'm going to do something then sit back and let others do the work for me. When I say I am going to a meeting, I go...and I don't sit idle like you, (picturing you waving a piece of scribbled cardboard around, grumbling under you breath, posturing when you agree or disagree with a comment by another). I speak my mind. I AM one of those who stand up and speak my mind.

Anyhow...I'm not quitting...I'm reorganizing my strategy and will be going at it full bore to ensure that my family and future generations will still have a community they can be proud of. I just won't be wasting my time on the forum of a highly prejudiced bird cage liner...unless they balance out the reporting.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet, forum dwellers.

Columbian...clean up your act if you want people to take you as a serious news reporting agency.

goldenoldie — May 9, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere -

RE: Your questions yesterday. I'm trying to muddle through those too. The locals WHO ARE SPEAKING UP are mostly angry at Madore, and to a lesser extent Mielke. Mielke is vulnerable - Madore has a much stronger base of support. The political Undecideds who supported Madore due to his anti-CRC position have to be swayed.

But I think The Columbian wants to keep Benton in the spotlight, due to his positional power and ability to affect the outcome of the upcoming session. And I also suspect that this is Benton's last term in office - once the CRC is decided, he'll call it a day. Hence the County job - He needs the pension money down the road. (If he's self employed, he probably has next to nothing coming from Soc Sec).

Anyhow, I think The C has targeted Benton, because I also think he's helped kill the CRC. We'll see.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

(If he's self employed, he probably has next to nothing coming from Soc Sec).

Depends solely on his income. Self-employed people-like me-get the privilege of paying the full 12.something % out of our own pockets every April 15th.

mrd — May 9, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 8, 2013 at 9:27 p.m.

No easy answers except stay involved. Numbers *usually* mean something. I think it's always good to elect well rounded candidates. Not single issue driven ideologues like David.

Politicians should be looking out for the general welfare of all. Understandably Madore feels he has a mandate to fight against the CRC, but this?

Our local Right Wing extremists are driving his behavior by stamping their seal of approval with his actions. The Waters, the Cranes etc. It won't help, but some of the CRC circle should call them on the carpet.

This can only hurt the anti-CRC crowd. When their leading advocate is left naked and needing a shower, it reflects poorly.


*I can't wait! The ones with "courage" will be there because this is important!*

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 7 a.m.

holyC- What time frame do you appear on? I want to check out your testimony.

Secondly, this mantra of yours. If one doesn't show up for a meeting they are *less than* somehow.

I'm sure many citizens have health concerns, prior commitments, problems with articulation, shy, transportation issues etc. Doesn't mean they are any less involved.

Cool your jets on puffing your chest out so far just for showing up.

(Maybe you worked for the County too long! **;)**

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Got that right, mrd. I wince every quarter when I pay the estimated taxes from my consulting. Ouch.

Goldie, sorry you are leaving cellar for a while. We often disagree, but managed so far to stay friendly. Let's continue that way.

The C is just reporting on the biggest local story, which happens to be the commish mess. Seems they feel like the majority of us around here - namely, that M&M; have messed up royally. I do not like their stance on the CRC either - but what would you say if they happened to agree with you? Does that make them a good paper then? This mess is 100% local, the CRC is not.

We all have to join the good fight. Whichever way works best for us.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Can Wee Little Businesses Save the Nation?**

Both political parties and both capitalism and socialism spout lots of support for “small business.” Maybe this is where we can bring the country back together again. But I put quotes around “small business” because the Census Bureau and the Small Business Administration have exceedingly murky notions about what “small” means.

By the Census Bureau’s way of counting, there are some 27 million small businesses in the U.S.
.... If you want to use number of employees as a measure, a business is small if it hires no more than 500 people. In manufacturing, you are still small with 1500 employees.

You can see my problem(s). There is certainly a big difference between having four employees and having 1500 or between taking in a half million dollars in receipts and $21 million. A fresh market farmer who has sales of several hundred thousand dollars surely is going to have a different notion of smallness than the grain farmer who is taking in $9 million. This all becomes more than something just sad or laughable when the government, deftly run behind the scenes by corporate business, starts handing out tax breaks and subsidies.

....When you do this, you will find that the U.S Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business usually address the interests of Rather Large Small Business and pretend that Wee Little Small Business hardly exists, even though the latter outnumber the former by about 21,000,000 to 6000 according to SBA’s statistics.

This difference is becoming critical as Wee Little Small businesses explode in numbers.
....The number of new businesses in the whole local food and food hub circuit is just booming, surely the most exciting economic development in our recent history.

The revolution is not just about economics. It’s about culture. I know a lot of the people in this movement and they do not necessarily fit the mold of the old small business profile. They are not as Republican as they used to be as a group. Nor is it easy to put them into old cultural molds either. They are neither rednecks nor yuppies. They know that we no longer live in the days of Wild Bill Hickok which primitive conservatives seemingly haven’t figured out yet. Nor are they artsy, urbane dilettantes who haven’t realized that the liberal yuppie era is vanishing too. They are not really political in the sense of so many older people who sit around ranting and raving all day about the evils of big government or the evils of big business.


mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Cities Work on Urban Agriculture Codes**
In Austin, Texas, the Urban Farms Process and Code Coordination working group of the Sustainable Food Policy Board is working to clarify and update city code related to urban farms, livestock, size of farm, employees, and dwelling, reports The Austin Chronicle. The working group has been holding public sessions this spring, designed to gather input from urban farmers and community stakeholders in regard to pending updates to the urban farm ordinance. Meanwhile, in March 2013, Detroit City Council adopted the city's first urban agriculture zoning ordinance recognizing agriculture as a legitimate land use and setting standards for it, according to Flint Farmers' Market. Urban farming has become increasingly popular in recent years as a way to deal with vacant property, revitalize neighborhoods and provide job skills and nutrition to remaining local residents struggling with poverty and a lack of access to fresh produce. Other cities working to update or create urban agriculture codes include Fort Collins, Colorado; Boston; and Tucson, Arizona.

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Our local Right Wing extremists are driving his behavior by stamping their seal of approval with his actions. The Waters, the Cranes etc. It won't help, but some of the CRC circle should call them on the carpet.*


nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

I think you are giving both Waters and Crane too much credit.

They are only repeating Xtian exploitative political and environmental philosophy (or Alec/TP, but I repeat myself) talking points. Those with any power to actually foment action, such as the recently elected Commissioner, swallowed that koolaid a long time ago.

Part of the 'think national, act local', paradigm that has been going on for a few decades. Think about packing school boards, city councils, important committees (like textbook adoptions) with conservative xtians.

And note that while there are some successes (the Texas school system and Madore getting elected for examples), there is usually enough push back (look at all the 'I'm sorry I voted for DM' claims on the FB comments) that much of the actions they foment become nullified.

Assuming D. Benton stays in his positions and 'greenlights' some big project (say a subdivision with questionable land use); as the effect of that 'de-regulation' impacts more local citizens and the light under the carpet shows up the influence from some developer's pockets there will be more push back from those who are knowledgeable of the situation.

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just have to jump in here and touch on a few subjects that have been talked about. So bare with me.

1. If any of you that say Madore has the attitude (and I am NOT sticking up for him, didn't vote for him so don't go there) of "It's my way or no way", then you really haven't been in this area for long.
Royce Pollard was exactly the same way. If you say he wasn't, then I have a island for sell. I know I have lived in Vancouver for 35 yrs.
This doesn't mean what the 2 commissioners did and tried to do right or what they will do in the future wrong. The government is suppose to be "for the people, by the people" is it not? You find dirty underhanded dealings going on, you have every right by law to stand up and voice it and fight to change it.

2. In the 35 yrs we have been here in Vancouver, we have seen planning and building run amok. Here there, any where there was a spot of land they slapped up fast food to housing projects, mini malls, garbage tracks of junk. Never taking in the consideration the impact it would have on our infrastructure to daily lives of us citizens. It killed downtown. Now they want to bring in LR to further damage our city and it's residences.
We didn't just move here from Gresham we ran here to get away from the LR. I thank our real estate person we had then everyday for having the insight to inform us about the LR all those years ago.


ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Our neighborhood in Gresham looks like a ghetto now. Go to Gresham and follow LR down to downtown. Neighborhood after neighborhood you will see what it has done to the area. It maybe just fine for downtown but not for neighborhoods and small business.

If it comes here you will see a change to the like that will make you run screaming you want out of this town.

Oregon allowed LR in, now the people are taxed over taxed and taxed more to the point the schools are suffering. Many have and are moving here for the schools. My neighbor that has a daycare in her home, out of the 12 kids she cares for, 9 of them are Portland area transplants due to the schools. Do we really want THAT here in Vancouver? Do we really want to down grade our school systems so that LR can run what 2-3 miles in Vancouver?

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Am I ranting HC? You bet I am, I am sick and tired of watching Vancouver implode. I see businesses closing by the week, streets so rutted, pot holes, crevasses big enough to pop tires, trash everywhere on the streets, parks going un-mowed, weeds abound, house after house with a for sale or for rent sign and it sits for months empty. Businesses closing, at this rate we will all be driving to Portland to by groceries, see a doctor to even have our hair cut.

I've been disgusted with the way this town has been ran for a very long time and as I see it, it's not getting better but worse!
This was a wonderful community when first coming here, now, I'm actually ashamed of it.

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Thanks for the added snippets from Royce's FB page. I will go just to test the temp. Recalls are nearly impossible in this state, because malfeasance needs to be proved in a court, I believe.

luvithere: Reliving our disappointment and anger here nonstop is surely not good for the health and soul. Glad you piped up again, though.

Make sure you express your concerns, no matter where you stand, to the offending government official, too, everyone. It is easy to do via phone message or email. Citizens are part of the checks and balances system and, if you don't speak up, government will assume you are in agreement or simply don't care.

elisi: Many people on Tuesday night shared your concern about runaway development, as do I, with the removal of development fees Madore is proposing. They also wisely pointed out that he was removing all that money from the general fund and someone will have to pick up that slack and that someone will be you and I.

He is trying to run the county the way he can run US Digital. Does not work here because there are rules, laws, policies and procedures that are in place here that are exempt at US Digital.

We did not need the Columbian's allegations to see for ourselves that he oversteps his role.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*I think you are giving both Waters and Crane too much credit.*

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.

Waters & Crane are given as examples representing a larger pop.

Liberals/Progressives need to adopt the 'think national, act local', paradigm with greater intensity. The other side has it down.

Constructive organized Voter push back can be a good thing, and powerful, (e.g. Tea Party in 2010) Even folks drinking Kool-aid get a belly ache when a personal interest (such as local environment) is gouged.

Holding like minded voices accountable, regardless of affiliation, is an important part of our Democratic process, and promotes responsible, thoughtful activism. Whether it be at the ballot box or other.

It also helps to ensure we won't become another Texas.

I do get what you are saying about the larger picture.

Elections do have consequences.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I want to add this strong analogy to express how I feel about any attempt to muzzle the masses.

When a terrorist commandeers a plane or takes hostages, how do they control the group of hostages?

They keep them frightened.

How do they do that?

Often, they randomly kill a hostage in front of the others.

Folks, Kevin Gray was the sacrificed hostage in Clark County. I know a few folks who work there who are terrified that they will be next if they speak up or show any resistance.

If someone with the background and competence and ethics of Kevin Gray is vulnerable, than no one is safe.

Same thing goes with the citizens. Make it difficult for people to speak. Wear them down. Keep them intimidated (remember my description of the looming, stern faces overlooking anyone who speaks to them from their lofty perch) and keep them silent

No matter what your passion: anti-LR; anti-CRC; pro-second amendment; pro, anti whatever.
Government needs to understand the opinion of its citizens. Does not mean it will change its course (sometimes it does), but you will be able to face yourself because you informed them.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: I did make a stop yesterday in Orenco Staion, a development in Hillsboro built around light rail access. It was so pristine-perfect, it was spooky.

Take a light rail ride out there sometime and see what I mean. Or, if you are driving to the northern Oregon coast, take a quick detour through there. From US 26, exit Cornelius Pass Road, turn left (south). Go to Cornell Road, turn right (West) until you reach Orenco Station.

Made me a little happier with the imperfections of my old Vancouver neighborhood. :)

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyC- To repeat- holyC- What time frame do you appear on? I want to check out your testimony.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, as long as Portland and area schools suffer you will not see families moving back. Until they get their head screwed on straight and stop the madness of taxing saying it's for schools and in the end it never reaches the schools, no family will go back.

Why is it when they brought gambling in saying a percentage was going to "help" the schools, and yet within a couple yrs schools were failing? Why is it that the schools suffer there and our schools here can budget and the kids get a education without having to close the schools or cut the school yr days? Why is it that so many people transplanted here came here because of the school system there? are fooling yourself into think LR didn't have a bad influence on the area. Yeah you're right to some degree about gentrification, but come on go look for yourself. Any neighborhood goes through it even mine has. Look at the areas from Gresham to downtown. Once beautiful neighborhoods now looks like ghettos and have for yrs.

now I must go, have a dr I have see and to chew out and thinking about firing. When a dr changes your medicine and it makes you feel worse than before and your complaints go to deaf ears it's time to speak up. So if you hear loud screaming coming from hospital area right after noon today you'll know it me....LOL

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: Good for you for taking control over your healthcare! Let us know how it goes.


Someone named Pat on the FB side has taken to calling M and M, "Plain" and "Peanut." Makes me smile. Injects a little humor in a very sad and serious situation.

Give these guys all the latitude they want. Step aside and let them decimate the system. They will only break a law faster. Mark my word: they will and they will get caught. I will show up with a cookie bouquet during visiting hours.

Trying to convince David Madore of his errors is like trying to convince someone who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia that they are not being pursued by ill-intended individuals. I don't mean this with any disrespect to persons who have been diagnosed with a mental illness.

Madore is driven by an ideology and mission from God that cannot be moved. It is a thinking error that is similar to disordered thinking in some mental illnesses.

He is his own worse enemy. Have faith that he will trip up eventually and it will be huge. When someone believes they are invincible and on God's mission, they are capable of wreaking the havoc that will bring themselves down.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 10:06 a.m.

Yup, I should have phrased it, "I think you are giving both Waters and Crane, **et al** too much credit.

*"The other side has it down."*

Well, they try..... But results, though well publicized, usually are short term; you don't see either Paul being really influential ; nor are the Tea Baggers much more than "Nattering nabobs of negativism" (to slightly misuse the quote); [those textbooks become toxic][1]; Where is, for example, any residual effect of Palin, Romney (and his running mate), Perot....

"The social studies curriculum was perhaps the last hurrah for the extreme agenda that Don McLeroy, the anti-evolution dentist, had championed. When the discussions began, he could frequently rally a majority on the fifteen-member panel, with the consistent support of people like Cynthia Dunbar, who once wrote that sending children to public schools was like “throwing them into the enemy’s flames, even as the children of Israel threw their children to Moloch.” (She also once called Barack Obama a terrorist sympathizer.) In 2011, Dunbar announced her retirement; she had been commuting between Texas and Virginia, where she taught at Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University School of Law. After McLeroy himself lost a Republican primary to a candidate who believes in evolution, Barbara Cargill, his successor as board chair, expressed concern that she was left with only “six true conservative Christians on the board.””".


Yes, we need better focus, the left wing has always been more like herding cats - it comes with not having the rw authoritarian bent - but look, for example, at how the Occupy movement opened much dialog that is still driving a resurgence of the Populist movement and at brought wage inequity, corp. malfeasance, etc. to the table at a national level.

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*You know my opinion. You show me yours and I will show you mine so to speak. Look in the eyes, face to face or back to your sheep herd you go.*

No idea what you are talking about. What "sheep herd" would that be? You obfuscate with over the top emotional diatribe and refuse to address the issue. To repeat:

holyC- To repeat- **holyC- What time frame do you appear on? I want to check out your testimony.**

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.

**You testify before an open meeting, to include your name, yet refuse to tell us which one you were?** (and please don't refer me to Madore for validation like you did jasonB. What should he do, call Dave and ask him if an anonymous avatar named alleycat of a couple of years ago showed up?)

You're not making any sense with this. Please address the issue, what time did you speak?

**Some of your post meeting statements. I would think you'd be proud to enlighten us with your testimony.**

*I was proud myself to be part of that process of straightening this mess.*

*Oh man, am I proud to have witnessed and be part of citizen's contempt against abuse.
I am here boys and girls. Pictures tomorrow! You are missing history!*

*We are entering a different phase and the objective is bigger than me to be showing me to a ghost in a forum.*

*I was proud of Manthou too. I applauded her hard.*


*Nobody is against a spirited expression of ones thoughts and feelings,*

Well then please, let us witness your conversation from the meeting. Thanks.

manthou up!! :)))))

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What strikes me a little strange is that some confuse having the *"right"* to do something with *"it's the right thing to do."*

When folks use the fallback position *"the law says I can do it"* they are by extension saying *"it doesn't matter if it's right."*

Sort of like elected state officials having the right to charge taxpayers for dry cleaning.

So when you hear that argument, appreciate they are avoiding the real discussion. And when you hear the argument *"well, others did it before them"* well that's also avoiding the discussion.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 9, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*the left wing has always been more like herding cats - it comes with not having the rw authoritarian bent*

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.

Well said. While I agree with your Occupy statement, the conversation was already started and building steam. And when it was said and done, what positive effect did Occupy have on policy?

*Where is, for example, any residual effect of Palin, Romney (and his running mate), Perot....*

One could say that Falwell, Swaggart, Reagan, etc., were the authors of the Palin & Co residue stain.

I believe the Tea Party types are short lived due to policy wants and ideals. If progressives/liberals were a bit more .. for lack of a better word, militaristic, in our messaging, we'd see more progress in the long term as well as the short.

RW media has done a bang up job trying to make Liberal a dirty word.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou- I get what you are saying and you make a good point, but your assertion (*So when you hear that argument, appreciate they are avoiding the real discussion.)* isn't applicable to all conversation.

Taking the public hits like you do, it's easy to see where you are coming from.

Don't forget to duck!

(P.S.) Why don't you let us basement dwellers co-exist with top siders? (Face Bookers)

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou are you talking moraly right.If in their own mind they think what they are doing is right and is also legal then they have justfied it to therself.But it most likely is not the "right" thing to do and may harm the community.I guess it all boils done to what they feel.Right does not mean the same to everyone.

timerick — May 9, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou and C Staff: Thank you for posting the video of Wednesday's CCC meeting. I urge everyone to watch it with an open mind. Madore's suggestions speak for themselves. Notice the body language around the table, especially Bill Barron and the staff member taking the minutes.

I have a very conservative friend who called me just awhile ago and she is distraught about all this because she voted for Madore and is suffering from a "cognitive dissonance." She had high hopes that he would be the politician who would break the mold. She is upset about the Benton appointment, even though she voted for Benton because she wants a more moderate, nonpartisan voice in that important position. It is easier to blame The Columbian for a non-existent vendetta, than it is to face the pain of Madore's self-exposure.

Madore is ramming his ideological agenda down the employee and citizen throats, without any evident concern for the greater good.

Just because the law might say you CAN do something without impunity, does not mean you SHOULD. The good of the order, the good of the community should always come first.

Extremists on either side hinder this. Moderation is the key to most everything in life.

Reminder: look at that 22 minute video. There is a special place in Heaven/The Other Side/Whatever Afterlife for Mr. Bill Barron for what he is enduring at the end of his stellar career.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: The FB folks can always come over here. What we have going on here is extraordinary and it will not be matched by mixing with the FB'ers on their turf. Just my opinion.

The comments and relationships are a whole different flavor and culture.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m- yes this is a major thing going on right now in the community but I think it is one of the least important things going on in Clark County. As andrecht as mentioned, what is the Local Government really doing?
There are worse things going on in the community than what these people are doing. I was talking with Golden today and we were discussing about the issues of younger generations and older generations around here. Some people do care of what happens to both. Some people in the generations do not understand what is going on because they only think of themselves. Instead of worrying about this stuff, why not get out and help a fellow neighbour instead of bashing them because you do not like how they write or talk. What about the 19 year old girl who was killed on Mill Plain? Tell me the selfish county commissioners meeting more important than the impact this had on the YOUNGER community? What about the elder abuse that is going on in homes? Or the one I loathe the most (because it disgusts me!) what about people being kicked out of their homes and becoming homeless?

Sometimes it's not just volunteering- it can be opening a door for somebody, letting someone go first at a 4 way stop, or just a simple smile.

YES we all know the Government sucks, YES we all know that people have become biased in what is written and have forgotten what it truly means to "tell the truth." It sucks that society has become so caught up in labels and the idiocy of social media.( Thanks Andrecht for that convo too!) Facebook/twitter/instagram has become the downfall of society. Forgetting what it truly means to be an American is gone because so many people abuse it for their own purpose and don't realise the # 1 reasoning for Freedom of Speech on the constitution and what it is really about. Clark County is divided, just as the rest of the States are divided. There is no one to blame but ourselves for that.

Don't turn what I said into a politcal agenda so you can feel like the bigger person- that is not why I have written this. Just think about it. No I will not cite references because this an opinion. Think back to who you have become today, are you happy? Have you set or tried to set a good example for the younger generations to come? Just think that's all. :)

Hope everyone has an amazing and blessed day <3 and week at that too!

mxfun118 — May 9, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Tell me the selfish county commissioners meeting more important than the impact this had on the YOUNGER community?*

Ooops it's supposed to be: Tell me, the selfish county commissioners meeting WAS more important than the impact of this young girl dying had on the YOUNGER community?....I am my own grammar police haha darn English as a second language!

mxfun118 — May 9, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Do you comprehend English?*

Yes. Why are you upset? We would all love to see your supposed testimony.

*Who's prerogative is? Mine or yours?*

For what? I guess it's mine to ask you a question? Prerogative for what? Why are you having such a hard time in complying to a reasonable request?

*Can you take no for an answer until you come out of hiding?*

Well, this is the first time you have said no to my request.

As far as your "hiding" comment. Just what are you talking about?

*I explained to you. I speak to people face to face. If you want to know about me, my words, my person outside of this forum, you need to come out of your cave yourself.*

Well, no, I don't. If you did indeed speak at this meeting, your words and visual are captured on camera.

Again, when did you speak?

*So why don't you manthou up? huh?*

Not even original. You sound upset about this. Why?? What is your reason for hiding your time?

*I am on tape and on pictures and you are not in either one it seems.*

Your statements concerning this are increasingly bizarre. You're on tape---when?

*So what gives you the power and/or authority to demand anything? It is a two way street bud.*

I haven't demanded anything. Just requested what time you testified at Tuesday's meeting, that's all.

*Also, I am an action guy.*

Yes. Of course you are. And the first one to tell us that.

What time?

*Much different than just a forum rant, an email, a letter or a statement. Action people jump on the water and get wet at the right time and at the right place to produce change....*

Yes. You are very inspirational. :)

Not sure why you won't reveal the time frame with your appearance, but I, and I'm sure others, are guessing as to why.

Why your demeanor is negative and your transparency less than forthcoming only you know.

But why continually spout off about something that is so easy to back up?

No, you don't owe anything to me, but me thinks you owe much to yourself..

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mxfun118: Did you know that there is a solar eclipse today? A good time to reflect on some of the points you shared with luvithere at 2:40 PM and spread some powerful positive mojo these rare events can bring.

Pacific Daylight time - Thursday May 9
Eclipse energies begin: 2:25 PM
Annular Eclipse begins: 3:31 PM
Maximum Eclipse: 5:23 PM
Annular Eclipse ends: 7:20 PM
Eclipse energies end: 8:25 PM

Tell your mom to hang in there. :)

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

You know how I am about **A**vatarial **A**nonymity **R**ights **P**osturing. :)

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou- No I didn't know there was a solar eclipse today! Wonder if anything will be seen or different! Exactly! My mum is good! I think it's just tiring because any where you turn, there it is! ;) I told her to come and visit me up North! :D

mxfun118 — May 9, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey holy. I was just looking over my post @ 2:56 and it hit me.

You would make a great one term politician!

County Commish?

The pathway is paved, but you'd be on cam for real.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for sharing your thoughts MX. All true.

However,I do think - just like others do- that this story of the commish is important. It does play into quality of life here in the county. As such, it is important to both young and old. When the fox guards the hen house - aka anti-environmentalist in charge of environmental office - yea, that does affect us all.

I don't think any one of us know what we do outside of the forum or what we think and care about, if we volunteer, write letters, make calls, or blow off the whole day and indulge in too many brewskis.

Here we discuss the topics of the day and what we find of interest. We can hop on, leave, spin, blather, whatever. If we have a topic that is of zero interest to the rest, it typically gets no audience and dies fast. Right now, the commish story seems to be of interest to all of us. So we discuss.

That's the way it should be.

This was not a critique of your post, by the way.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just asking the time cat, that's all. No BS. Not "wanting it all", just the time. The footage is already there. Just the time.

I started out in good faith wanting to hear your voice at the Commish meeting.

Now it's turned into name calling. (obtuse?:)

Forget about it holy. I think you've supplied the answer.

[been on any biker runs lately?] ;)

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Why do you hide Nail?*

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.

Trying to turn the tables? You are really a piece of work.

I didn't know I was hiding. Just posting to an anonymous forum.

Oh my!! :)))

I won't argue with you for hours on end as go and a couple others do Cat. Let's just say you've settled this matter quite well, both for me and I'm sure others.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 3:19 p.m.

How about in



letters, you tell us

#when and where you are bringing forward your evidence?

Instead of the cat box litter dumping you are doing.

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I agree with you on the importance of what is happening right now with the CCC. I have not seen such a takeover of the public power in a local government that impacted me.

Some Madore supporters are having a very, very hard time with it, understandably. It is painful. They are angry at the publicity because they cannot escape it, so they minimize or blame others. It is a psychological defense. I chatted with my friend today for nearly one hour about it. She wants to give up and crawl in a hole because her "savior" is very, very flawed and has no ability to self-evaluate and correct.

Check this out: At one time, Madore was very much opposed to moving citizen comment to the end of a meeting. This was, of course, when it served him well. Now it does not.

[link text][1]


manthou — May 9, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

question-Rather than move the public hearing portion of the commissioner's meetings back, as Madore proposes (the timing is suspicious) why not just start earlier?

mrd — May 9, 2013 at 4:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*While I agree with your Occupy statement, the conversation was already started and building steam. And when it was said and done, what positive effect did Occupy have on policy?*

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.

Before Occupy, most of the conversation was policy wonk driven - maybe some Krugman, a few economic thinktanks, etc. Occupy got it out of that realm and into a more public eye.

You are right, the rw press (or more accurately, mainstream for profit press) pushed that 'occupiers are dirty mess leavers' meme quite well. One had to go to CSPAN interviews and a range of sites well known for social justice (Democracy Now, for an example) for lengthy coverage of the issues.

We have Elizabeth Warren in office as part of the Occupy legacy. And a continuing expose of wage/wealth inequity in the more general press.

As for policy, there is still debate going on in WA dc about bailouts for banks, fairness in dealing with foreclosures, some greater awareness of the degradation of workers' rights, wages, conditions. Look also at the discussions of state owned non-profit banks.

I'd also look at some of the writing going on at:

And there is an interesting article ( about why the D party has been less than effective.

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 3:54 p.m

And for the second time, what do you mean by hiding?

A different standard? What standard are you comparing to, to be "different", one from the other.

*What is your agenda Nail?*

Your questions are getting stranger all the time holy. Agenda? :) Just sharing my opinions I guess. I didn't know I had an "agenda".

FYI- You're starting to single out people and become paranoid/afraid of them again. Remember when you got the boot last time? You then imagined some enemy sitting outside your home and produced a license plate number on site amongst other *strangeties*?

Now you're singling out citizens at an open meeting to scope?

BTW no need to be afraid/paranoid of anyone in here. We're all pretty reasonable and transparent for this type of forum. I remember an avatar 777 something with a soldier patch that used to upset you. We're all pretty cool here most of the time. Non-threatening. A safe environment.

In all honesty. Take a deep breath.

If you're not going to back up your rhetoric than fine. I take it for what it is.

*errrrr...and I am doing what?*

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 3:56 p.m.

I guess that will remain unseen.

It was just a simple request as to what time you spoke so I could check out your rant.

It was not an intentional vetting, but seemingly, a vetting nonetheless.


nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Continuing. Split so as not to run afoul (again) of too many links

*While I agree with your Occupy statement, the conversation was already started and building steam. And when it was said and done, what positive effect did Occupy have on policy?*

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.

For other positive looks at social change:

mr_basil_seal — May 9, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail,don't take the bait anymore.You are way better than that.Sometimes it is better to walk away and move on to something constructive.I think thats maybe why GO has been quiet today.You will never win a argument with HC no matter how hard you try.On to other things.Why do you think that our Governor is not supporting a independent audit of the CRC.Do you think that maybe he might find something he may not want to read?

timerick — May 9, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal- Thanks for the links & discussion. Think I'll take a few hours off, put my brain in neutral, (it's stuck there most of the time anyway) and corrupt myself and wife with dinner & a movie.


timerick- Interesting about Inslee. I'm going to have to look into that one. Has the Gov been asked? Sorry if I'm not up on this aspect. On the surface, an unbiased outside opinion sounds good.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 3:27 p.m- I couldn't agree more. I know the topics have an interest to people, it's just I have seen the same thing over and over. It sounds like a broken record.
Oh the last thing I put at the end, it was just my legal disclaimer lol. HAHA my own little law joke. Us Legal people, we crazy (Considering with all the junk we have to put up with!) :P

mxfun118 — May 9, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes he has been asked.He said that wsdot has already done an in depth audit.I would like to see a independent audit not paid for by Madore or one supplied by a state agency.

timerick — May 9, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, this is one of the few times I do agree with you on as well as what jasonb asked earlier this week.

I too have watched how HC has went off about how he was going to make history, he was going to speak at the meeting on Tuesday night. I watched from beginning to end and the only one I'd say could have been him is the guy towards the end that told them he goes to many of the meetings and watches them all. That's just my guess, probable wrong..
If not him then I'll side with jasonb and say he never went.

By the way don't he sound a bit like.. hm well another elected that has a high and mighty attitude and throws out insults by the buckets full? Nice bow tie there..

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

MX, if you think we sound like a broken record, I refer you the many many gazillion comments about the CRC. On and on and on, for weeks, months. Mom leading the way at times.

See, it all boils down to interest. Right now we are in commish land, and holy on warpath land.

I mention the last one for fun.i would truly like to see and hear his testimony, but I shall refrain from digging. He is entitled to stay hidden here like the rest of us.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

yep, HC, I think we are with you, at least the majority here.

Anybody remember the case about a year or two ago, where this guy wanted to build a car port? Bid was $1800, permits $1100. Or even vice versa.

Say what? Permits of how much? For what? If I remember correctly, he decided he could not afford the car port after that. At least that was what was in the paper. I bet you he built it on the cheap and just did not tell the county. Understandable? Absolutely!

But we want to give developers a holiday? Without any understanding of what it can do to general funds, no understanding of what repercussions are? And NO holiday for the rest of us? That's where I draw the line.

Does there need to be a change in these fees? Yes, totally. Way too high at some end for sure. But - cut for all or cut for none.

And that's just before I get to the infamous hiring...

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My work took me out of town today, and I didn't have a chance to check up on the Basement. Wow!!! This is better than General Hospital! Why isn't Laura in prison for killing David? Who is this guy Luke, and what is he doing to Laura? How can Laura forgive Luke? What is she doing marrying the drunken bum who raped her???? All tame stuff compared to today. Goldie is off on a sabbatical. Editor Lou pays a visit, and discusses can vs. should. HolyC accuses Manthou of staring into his eyes (is HolyC really David Madore?). Elisi accuses HolyC of being Jim Moeller. (I had to take a break and clean my computer screen; fortunately just water.) "Everyone" calls HolyCat on the carpet - even Sir Basil busts his chops (another screen cleaning pause there).

Damn. It's days like this I feel like retiring so I can play too.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When I meant a broken record I meant all topics regardless. I don't respond much to when it comes to family members talking on here but nice cheap shot- much appreciated.

mxfun118 — May 9, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Was not meant as a cheap shot, MX. But the broken record comment surely sounded like it was directed towards our discussing the current topic. So we ALL sound like a broken record at times. So what?

All I was pointing out - we all do it. We have something on our mind, we are ALL allowed to comment as much as we want. ALL of us.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, I am not much for guns. Got none, want none. I am all for some kind of control as I do not see the need to having a stash of them at home. No need for a big assault rifle to go after Bambi. But if people want a gun, so be it. Still legal.

I don't know why they arm themselves to the teeth, nobody is taking their toys away. Just lots of fear mongering on somebody's part, yelling they will take away our right to be armed to the teeth.
Fear mongering has always been a great weapon to use to keep people in line.

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now roger I said he SOUNDS LIKE, not that he IS. ;)
Just tickles me to see someone trying to play guardian roll so I was looking for an explosion of words as big as Manhattan for all the hot air that has been let fly in here.

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't think Gov Inslee knows what to do about the CRC. I forget on which side, but I've guessed that the only way this makes sense is if he wants to allow the Senate to conduct it so he can try to discredit the results by calling them biased. And what I'm also finding quite amusing is that Jim Moeller has posted to the article covering this suggesting to Inslee that he needs to help bring the two sides together - work for a compromise. This out of the guy who refuses to consider a change to the plan. I can't decide whether he's playing games or if they're truly that desperate. But next up I'm sure we'll see the pro-CRC group out there with little buttons saying Let's Compromise!!

roger — May 9, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, ended up telling my pulmonary dr off today. Told her to get her crap right and stop using me as a guinea pig. So she changed my medicines again! Told her if this doesn't work then I'm going back to the old way, at least I didn't feel like crap and I could breathe.
When I told her how I felt after using the new meds, she looked at me like I was lying, ticked me off so bad I told her to take the smirk look off her face or I'd slap it off. She has this last chance if this doesn't help then I'm looking for a new pulmonary dr.
Damn maddening when a family dr knows more than a specialist.

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger, be aware, be very aware..look closely at the promises that's soon to hit to get that compromise.

ELISI — May 9, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well bravo Elisi!!!! That's telling the doc off. Nicely done. Stick to your guns. They really miss it badly at times, don't they?

luvithere — May 9, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, just to change up a bit, this hearing on Benghazi has gotten very ugly. My boss and I usually listen to Rush Limbaugh when out driving - We like to make fun of him. But today he caught my attention - he kept carrying on about an SF team ready to go in to try to save the Ambassador, and how they kept getting told to stand down. So I've been reading everything I can find on this the past couple of hours. I want to know why this isn't being pushed further. The ex-Deputy for Libya (Hicks) made some pretty heavy accusations today. He mentions a Spec Ops Lieutenant Colonel Gibson who he says told him he had a 7 man team (SF) standing by a C130 in Tripoli ready to go in to try to rescue the Ambassador, and that he had been given the order to Stand Down. WTF???? (Interesting that Hicks didn't know some critical details.) Where is this LTC; why isn't he being called to testify? Anyhow, a DOD spokesman denies a Stand Down order was ever given, but I can't find a statement from that source on whether the mission existed. But what I did find was where Sec'y Panetta says he discussed going in with a different group with a couple of the Star Men, and they didn't want to put anyone in until we knew what we were facing. Sorry - If this is true, then it sucks - pure and simple. I want to see those generals forced to retire in shame. We rarely go into someone else's territory knowing everything we'd like to know; that's why so much time is spent training for different scenarios and how to react. And if not true, then those same Gen gens need to speak up and set the record straight. Whatever. Sorry if I'm losing interest in our County drama - between this and the bridge, I'm maxed out on drama.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Brava squared, Elisi! Passive doesn't cut it anymore when it comes to advocating for your own health! Good doctors understand that patients are well-informed and know their own bodies well.

roger: Sounds like I better take some time to read up on the Benghazi issue. Now that the re-call meeting or whatever meeting is solid, I can turn my attention to something else for the rest of the evening.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi - I'm thinking the CRC gets pushed back, but not the gas tax. I figure those two roads up by Puyallup get funded, the one in Spokane, and perhaps everyone getting on board to support an I95 bridge toll for SR520. CRC gets the $81 mil; whether the audit happens - who knows? Oregon will pull their $450 mil pledge back, but the damned thing won't die. The same people will try to plan the same project again, most likely.

And I'm loving how Zillow claims housing values are skyrocketing - it's looking about like 2004 again. I just might go for an early retirement from the federal job, sell the house, and see if a relocation to Costa Rica is in the cards. I went there a few times back in the '80s and liked it, and have been reading how this is the new favorite of US expats who are tired of the BS here.

roger — May 9, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: This story, the Benghazi new developments you describe, are the precise reason we need responsible journalism (the key word is responsible) to sniff it out to help us get to the truth. Good journalists have access where we don't.

manthou — May 9, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys, I want to tell you all something.... I just really don't know how to say it.

I guess I'll just go ahead and put it out there.


hawkeye — May 9, 2013 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal- Thanks for the links & discussion. *Think I'll take a few hours off, put my brain in neutral, (it's stuck there most of the time anyway) and corrupt myself and wife with dinner & a movie.*

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.

Still avoiding the question Nail?

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 4:55 p.m.

Still waiting Nail... What's holding you?

holycrapola — May 9, 2013 at 5:51 p.m.

I believe the vulgarity you used towards me, accurately describes your questioning.

holy-I'm not sure why you're displaying such an attitude, but I got to thinking about it and ...

You like to stick your chin out about being public with yourself, while condemning others for not being so. seem to be one of the few no one has laid eyes on.

timerick mentioned meeting hawkeye the other day, as well as meeting goldenoldie at another time. manthou is now *exposed*, roger and others put their I.D. on Face Book.

Awhile back I certainly put my face & bod out there at Drift's book signing. Everyone was invited as I recall. Don't know if you were posting as alleycat, phoenix rising, or one of your other avatars. Never saw you though. But so what?

I don't think the rest of us consider going to a public gathering as something heroic. You seem to wear this badge like no other. I was wondering why you put so much stock in making a physical appearance and then.. boom! It hit me.

You're one of the very few posters that no one in the forum has laid eyes on before!! Am I right?

So name call away cat. Get as vulgar as you want. You usually do to get the boot at a moment like this. I think last time it was go you unloaded on when people were calling for some understanding with your erratic posts. The time before that.....

I hope you stay posting. As I've said before, you're a spark plug for the forum. No matter what character you claim to be.

You just need re-gapping once in awhile.

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 9, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

Great source!! :)))

From what I understand, no new info to speak of. An embarrassment to Republicans big time.

Issa's a total joke.

Not to mention Rushbo?

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick mentioned meeting hawkeye the other day,

In fact, I stopped by and said hi on Tuesday. It was really nice to put a face with the words. I really enjoyed our little chat.

As for HC calling nail out, so high school. Grow up.

hawkeye — May 9, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger you can't bail on us.Us old vets have to stick together.I never made it to Costa Rica.I spent 2 tours in Viet Nam.And I'm damn sure I am not going back.I will fight the good fight here.If we can get HC to calm down a little and channel his fury to accomplish something positive we could use him on point.M16 bandolier and a 45.He sounds like he has the energy to do it.Me I'm getting to old.I will take the back with a 50 and a ammo carrier.

timerick — May 9, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — May 9, 2013 at 9:13 p.m.

From what I gather, a recall won't be easy. It was nice to see Joy Overstreet's (great @ the meeting) post about forcing a resignation. I think that's our best hope.


As for HC calling nail out, so high school. Grow up.

hawkeye — May 9, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.

I was schooled in Vegas. We started that crapola at the grade school level. :))

nailingit — May 9, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - HC can carry the PRC-77 and hang with the LT. Now, if you'll lose the testosterone and make that a 60 I'll tote your extra belts. Those 50 rounds are too big to carry!

roger — May 10, 2013 at 5:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Before everyone goes gaga over Royce, kindly recall he wasn't exactly known for giving a hoot about what the people thought either. His annexation binge included a complete disregard for whether the people in those areas wanted to be a part of the city - The Comms had to stop him there. And the CRC planning was kept pretty quiet until Timmy and the No Tolls crowd blew that into a big deal.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

From the FB side:

Carolyn Crain · Top Commenter · Vancouver, Washington

*I believe these are the very people David Madore and Tom Mielke would love to see able to get a job, any job.
Reply · · 7 hours ago

Development was shut down effectively by the last administrator of environmental services in this county named Gray*

Interesting claims. Wonder what evidence could be brought forward to support them.

mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The best way to expose the M and M Bros? Give them the time and space to do it themselves. Look what they have given us in the short months they have enjoyed power together. It is only a matter of time when one of them (Madore, I predict) will be caught breaking the law. The key word here is 'caught."

The recall will not go forward, but Saturday's meeting will yield a core group of citizen activists to be on these guys hungrily, like a chicken on a june bug (thanks, Gramps).

The most succinct and articulate reason I have seen for what is wrong with their Benton appointment is this by Douglas Green on the FB side:

*Here's how to make that separation. This is not about Benton, its about process. Had M & M wanted to change the status of the job from a professional technical appointment to a political appointment, to make the appointment based on majority will of the commission, and to base the appointment on a political basis, then all they needed to do was to make those changes to the job. The public debate would have been over this issue, but they would have been within their right to make the change. This would have required a published debate, public testimony- but they had the cotes to carry out this change, Then they could have appointed whoever they wanted. But they never did this. They ousted a person based on a non adopted new policy, and then shoehorned a person into the post without any process connected to the post. Does it matter? Yes, because they basically shredded the rule book for all hiring. As it stands, they are taking the position that all employees are fire at will, and that political considerations are by themselves adequate to hire and fire. That is called a spoils system- and its illegal, abusive- and I just can't think conservatives really wanted that any more than anyone else. Right now the local GOP, in backing this is shredding its claim to be a law and order party.*

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 10, 2013 at 6:30 a.m

Your great document -dated 2007 - basically covers what is dealt with in middle school research.

If you want something a bit more uptodate and more thorough, try learning what your kids are learning.

Example :



or go to your kids' school and ask the librarian

mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Republican Senators Boycott Vote On Gina McCarthy’s Nomination To Head EPA**

By Ryan Koronowski

Zero Republicans show up to vote on Gina McCarthy's nomination to be EPA Administrator.
The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee was scheduled to vote today at 9:15 on the nomination of Gina McCarthy to be the next EPA Administrator. Despite the fact that she has answered more than a thousand of the committee’s questions, Senate Republicans announced just before the hearing that they would be boycotting the vote, denying the committee quorum and postponing the confirmation hearing.
The committee rules require that at least two members of the minority party be present during a vote. Not a single Republican bothered to show up.

#Sound familiar?

mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Reporters and news consumers: Heads up. ESB 5236, the uniform correction or clarification of defamation act is on Gov. Inslee's desk for a signature.

Washington joins North Dakota as the ONLY two states to pass this law.

Don Benton added an amendment. 'Nuf said about that.....

Some reporters worry that they will be pressured into making unwarranted corrections to avoid litigation threats.

Citizens harmed by irresponsible journalism will not be able to recover damages to personal reputation.

This bill was introduced by publishers and their attorney. Add this to their misuse of Anti-Slapp law and defamation suits are essentially dead in our state.

Every time we lose a "checks and balances" protection, I worry.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now it's holy Dave against the forces of evil! Bizarro by the moment!

Josephine Funes Wentzel · Top Commenter

Commissioner Tom Mielke and David Madore: " You who sit down in the High God's presence, spend the night in Shaddai's shadow, Say this: "God, you're my refuge. I trust in you and I'm safe!" That's right - he rescues you from hidden traps, shields you from deadly hazards. His huge outstretched arms protect you - under them you're perfectly safe; his arms fend off all harm. Fear nothing - not wild wolves in the night, not flying arrows in the day, 6 Not disease that prowls through the darkness, not disaster that erupts at high noon. Even though others succumb all around, drop like flies right and left, no harm will even graze you. You'll stand untouched, watch it all from a distance, watch the wicked turn into corpses. Yes, because God's your refuge, the High God your very own home, Evil can't get close to you, harm can't get through the door. 11 He ordered his angels to guard you wherever you go. If you stumble, they'll catch you; their job is to keep you from falling. You'll walk unharmed among lions and snakes, and kick young lions and serpents from the path. "If you'll hold on to me for dear life," says God, "I'll get you out of any trouble. I'll give you the best of care if you'll only get to know and trust me. Call me and I'll answer, be at your side in bad times; I'll rescue you, then throw you a party. I'll give you a long life, give you a long drink of salvation! (Ps 91:1-16)

Reply · 1 · · 43 minutes ago

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow Nail I didn't know you were so deep.You almost had me turned in to a true liberal.Now I think I Will just stay in the middle.

timerick — May 10, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail at 8:32 am: Wow. Just wow.

Like I said, ya' don't have to hang a bell on a fool.

Matter of time, folks. Matter of time.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail at 8:32 am: Wow. Just wow.

Like I said, ya' don't have to hang a bell on a fool.

Matter of time, folks. Matter of time.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry for the double post. Blame captcha.

Maybe Josephine will be gifted Bill Barron's position. Or John Wiesman's

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 10, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.

I've always found it better to address the person, rather than a forum about the person. But that's me.

Anyway sparky, with all good intentions, and in the spirit of "meekness" :) I thought you might takeaway something good from this great post addressing the **Crane** AAAHHHH!

We all can benefit from these wise words.

Ron Goodman · Top Commenter

Carolyn, even if I considered you deluded - a state of being; I wouldn't brand you with a label, such as 'fool.' Yes, this is a place for opinions, but opinions are best served with reason and evidence; not with slanted language and appeals to prejudice. Argumentative fallacy is simpler expressed as, 'fail.' Even a 'cool cat' such as Richard Nixon understood that you neither influence people nor persuade them by calling them names and demeaning them. You might want to take something from a page of his first inaugural address, as I whisper it to you:

America has suffered from a fever of words; from inflated rhetoric that promises more than it can deliver; from angry rhetoric that fans discontents into hatreds; from bombastic rhetoric that postures instead of persuading.

We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another—until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices.

Reply · 7 · · 7 hours ago

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow Nail I didn't know you were so deep.You almost had me turned in to a true liberal.Now I think I Will just stay in the middle.

timerick — May 10, 2013 at 8:38 a.m.


Back to shallow ground?

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Middle is good. Middle is balanced. Lots of us gathered there with you. :)

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Josephine's bible quote: "watch the wicked turn into corpses."

Is that a death wish for the perceived enemy? How peace-loving of you, Jo. So full of God's lovingkindness and Christian values.

You can't make this stuff up. Where's my Christmas sweater? It's raining presents in May.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 10, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. (

Beyond some vague and oft repeated calls for proposed action, you claimed you couldn't link to a declassified 2007 NSA pdf on basic research skills.

I've provided that link and a few links that show that 'information' you deem so critical is publicly available and actively taught through most any school site - just point your browser to your search engine of choice and query ' "research guide" and whatever level of school you are interested in for comparison; ex ' "research guide" high school ' will bring up a multitude of librarian developed guides to research for high school students.

Using 'middle school' will bring up some slightly simpler guides. And interesting that I pointed out "middle school" in the post, linked to college sites and a general k-12 research skills site and you talk about "grade school"....

The point being that you are making claims with no evidence, you bluster that you won't provide sources and data, nor can link to any resources that show any level of organization, and acting all big hat and boots.

Which looks like just that,

#an act.

mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Whoa! Time out manthou! You moved to the middle?

With a kind spirit, I'm going basil on you.

Please support your position with evidence! :))

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: Steve Stuart said it well: Any time the pendulum swings far right or far left, the people's business does not get done efficiently. We need people willing to compromise.

I think I have seen you compromise here. You're not what I call a far left radical.

Hey, we all slide east or west depending on the issue. We are complicated creatures. :)

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, why are you so surprised at what manthou said?
You'll find many are moving to the middle, tired of the BS coming from both sides.
What we see today of both parties, are far, far from being the parties of yesterdays.
IMO both are so messed up and only in it for themselves, but what is one to do when you can only register to vote as one or the other?

ELISI — May 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC calm down its Friday.Not good to get so riled up on Friday.Basil has always been this way.I have never seen anybody change him.Just live with it.Like my grand kids say take a chill pill.

timerick — May 10, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola at 9:52 a.m.

Thank you for helping prove my point.

mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

*I think I have seen you compromise here. You're not what I call a far left radical.*

I have and I understand. I'm not much into labels being a defining factor, but I'd say I'm *more middle left radical*. :) My response was meant to be light hearted. Some of the basement air has been a little thick as of late.

Although we differ on some issues, I think if you asked any Fox News conservative, we both would be considered extremely liberal. (basing assumptions on prior posts)

The only proper way to gauge this in my opinion, would be a person's ideological/political stances on issues & philosophy.

*nailingit, why are you so surprised at what manthou said?*

ELISI — May 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

Where a person stands on immigration reform, gay rights, women's rights, equal rights, voting rights, choice, gun reform, war doctrine, campaign finance, education, environment, role of government etc. etc., tends to determine a persons label.

The middle can mean many things. It's one of the problems when attaching labels. Which brings us to..

*but what is one to do when you can only register to vote as one or the other?*

I get your spirit. I've advocated for a viable 4-5 multi-party system for as long as I can remember. (considering my brain salad breakfast, that isn't saying much)

Vote for the party based on history, ideals, and your opinion who has the best vision for our country as you see it. Oh yeah, the candidate helps a little! Not much advice here, but not many options.

In addition to it's many democracy challenged attributes, Citizens United entrenched us further into a two party system.

Maybe we should take a look at major reform to our Supreme Court. :)

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.


nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Definition of "Class"

Showing stylish excellence.I would second that as Literary prose HC....Of which I don't have much but oh well.... This whole M&M; thing to me is a non story... So they appointed a Benton.. Madore is doing exactly what he said he would do, mix things up.. Like the FB poster said you vote him in to cut some wood, lets let him cut some wood... But that's just my opinion.. Off to have a great weekend. Everyone Peace, Love and help someone out this weekend.

vanwadreamer — May 10, 2013 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Temple "Jonathan Swift" Lentz is on a roll with her blog. Christmas in May, thanks to our new commish.

An excerpt. Priceless:

**Under Madore's plan, Clark County would open itself up to tourists who want a hands-on experience of life during a time when rich men bought their way into political office, cronyism reigned throughout the political system, wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few at the expense of the many, and normal working citizens kept their mouths shut for fear of losing their jobs and livelihood at the hands of tyrannical local despots. The few who were lucky enough to have jobs risked their lives in unsafe work environments in order to keep them, and their families scrambled and scrimped and saved to make every last crust of bread go just a little further. Religious fundamentalism thrived, and xenophobia was at its peak.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay laughing here at what is being written- very comical on some parts but yet intriguing!Especially the talk of religion and Bible Quotes. I know some are repeating what was said but it I get frustrated when "officials" use a prayer and it has nothing to do with what is going on. I have a question for people who are truly atheists on here: Do you really down play religion and force your beliefs on people of not to believe in God? Or if they believe, do you just go about your own way? I'm wondering because I am a strong believer in God and the Bible (but I wasn't born yesterday and I know that the world has been in existence longer than when the Bible was written.) But at the end of the day someone had to turn the switch. ;) And I speak my mind about it but I am not going to say "you have to believe, you need to be saved." (I've heard that Atheism is a religion all on it's own- that's according to the SDA way. Not my words!) Can an atheist please shed some light on this topic?

cApTcHa- you drunk, go home!

mxfun118 — May 10, 2013 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou to Nails - "I think I have seen you compromise here. You're not what I call a far left radical."

Sorry - Nails was a self admitted Liberal rabble rouser as of Wednesday morning, and that pendulum of yours doesn't swing back that quickly.

You, Manthou, are more of what one might call a moderate Liberal. Your pendulum spends most of its time in the left center, but occasionally it gets over to the right a bit. I'm pretty sure mrd also fits this description.

I suppose Sir Basil is also a Liberal. To me, he's Doctor Little reincarnate - The Poli Sci prof whose classes I did my best to avoid, and when I had to take them I just turned in the papers and showed up for the exams - No one cared whether we attended lectures in those days. Both give (gave) me the urge to run head first into a brick wall.

I'm thinking HolyC is a pretend Liberal. Or maybe a better term would be neomodernistic Liberal - one that follows the cause du joir because it's popular to do so. Kind of like back in the Vietnam days, when a whole lot of guys were part of the antiwar movement because they figured it gave them a better chance to get laid. (And sorry if that offends anyone - I'm not intending to be crude, but....)

And that's MY take on Basement Liberalism.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And you guys really need to get daytime jobs or something. This sucks jumping into an entertaining discussion several hours after it happened.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Doing my best to go to the meeting tomorrow. Who is with me?

luvithere — May 10, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Thank you for helping prove my point." -- mr_basil_seal — May 10, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

I'm really getting tired of having to clean my monitor off after reading some of your responses to HC, Sir Basil. With all those shows for wannabe celebrities, there's got to be one looking for the next Mark Twain.

(Timerick - On point with your observation.)

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.

Are you TRYING to get booted again? Keep it up, I'm sure you'll succeed.

Looks like Jojo is going goofy again. Funny stuff.

hawkeye — May 10, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.

Dude! I feel left out. Probably because I DID get a part--time job and haven't been around as much as I was.

hawkeye — May 10, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't consider you a Liberal. If you disagree with this assessment let me know and I'll try to work you in there. Or just lump you in with Manthou, mrd, and others who desire to be given this label.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This Saturday get together old Royce is hosting is to explain the recall process. Seems Erin Middlewood did a pretty thorough job of this in The C today. I've got a feeling that Saturday is going to be used more as a feeling out by Pollard to see if he should reenter public life.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, that's my take also. Guess he got bored in retirement. I prefer he stays there myself but I am curious as to feel of that meeting.
And it will get me out of scheduled yard work.

luvithere — May 10, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - But perhaps you see my first point. The rest of these guys get all wound up in interesting discussions, and then by the time we get here they've run down and are done. Break out the Geritol!

roger — May 10, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - Hmmm... I was planning on forcing myself to start a room painting project. I'm liking your way of handling these annoyances.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I am going tomorrow. I agree with roger that this is less about a recall and more a call to arms, figuratively speaking, and an information-sharing session. And Royce has too much time on his hands and is probably testing the temp for an opportunity to return to political life. (bingo, again, roger).

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Exactly, roger. You just need to make the excuse sound legit.

Manthou, I would like to say look for the svelte knockout chick and it is me. But if you hear any German, then it is probably me for sure.

luvithere — May 10, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea Roger, I get you. By the time I get around to reading everything that has happened in one day, it's over. HC does have a tendency to go on.

As for the "liberal" thing, I try to be close to center. Sometimes left sometimes right but never far from center. I prefer to see things as they are in real life as opposed to putting left/right labels on them.

hawkeye — May 10, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - We were talking about something similar a while back, and agreed then that Pollard is somewhere out there, just biding his time. By recall rules, if Madore or Mielke get the boot, the local Repubs pick the replacement for the Gov to appoint. This won't be Pollard (or Boldt), and this person sits for the next 3 years. Benton's current term doesn't expire until 2017. If he's thinking of going after Jaime, he's smoking dope. Stepping down - Jeannie Stewart would be a target, but I don't see this because he'd have to serve under the punk who lied to beat him. Maybe he'll go after Leavitt, running on that he had the CRC locked up and Leavitt blew it? I'm thinking of being there myself, just to watch and see what the old guy is up to. (A recall actually happening is unlikely.)

roger — May 10, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - I probably stray a bit further from center, but I agree.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So-called independent-actually-confused-conservative-roger-Thanks :)

Start a movement...

Yo Labels.

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - Excellent advice. Seeing as how I'll be making the excuses to myself, a small degree of rationalization will be required. It's supposed to get to 85 or higher, so I won't want to open the windows. But if I leave them closed and do the painting, then my cats may suffer. Sunday is supposed to be much cooler, and a better day for things like this. I really want to get the project done and over with, but it's the right thing to put it off.

That crap never would have worked with my wife, but she was smarter about these things than I am. It sure sounds good to me!

roger — May 10, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails!!! I see the Geritol kicked in!

roger — May 10, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lew Waters thinks I'm a closet Commie. Guess it's all based on where you're looking from.

roger — May 10, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Debbie Peterson, according to her FB posts tonight, is riding in on this meeting tomorrow with the four horsemen of the Apocalypse and anyone else who wants to join her attempt to recall Leavitt, Hansen, and Burkman.

Open meeting and all, but her topic is not on the agenda.

Oh, wait! Maybe Madore can muscle a last-minute change for her. :)

Fun times. I think.

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh that wacky Debbie Peterson. You never know what that crazy girl is going to do next. Sounds like she wants to hijack the meeting for her own purposes. Fun and games.

Manthou and luv, have fun at the meeting, I'd go myself but I don't think that I could be in the same room with Deb. She is one of the reasons I can't post on the FB side anymore.

Anyhow, please bring us back some good intel. This is only going to get better.

hawkeye — May 10, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk: I give Debbie credit, however, on her smiling delivery every time I have heard her speak. If I don't listen to the content, but concentrate on that sunny smile and the cadence of her voice, I can almost self-hypnotize. Breathe, breathe....

Carolyn Crain, now, for me, she is like a banshee witch. She never delivers her opinion without a great deal of snark and scold and grumble and grimace. I usually leave the room, if I can.

She stomped past me once at a city council public hearing portion and the stranger next to me, I swear, starting humming, oh-so quietly under his breath, the Wizard of Oz wicked witch tune: Da dum da da da da dah, Da dum da da da da dah, Eeeeeeeeeeee!

One good reason NOT to FB, you don't leave your descendants all those posts you wish you had never added your good name to. :)

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you Holycrapola. I never thought of it that way. It does shed some light on what I am trying to figure out. Maybe instead of Atheism I should have said agnostic! It's as simple as is it the chicken or the egg. We'll never know! That's a new one you have talked to God or the other way around! Ehhh roll with it- take it as a compliment JK


Roger @ May 10, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. LOL Hey now, I make my own hours and have had a lot of free time lately in the last week! Ahh the fun of being your own boss before you're 30! :P

mxfun118 — May 10, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


reading the posts in bulk makes great entertainment.

this is S1 Ep12 in our little *Days of our Lives in the Basement*

DeeLittle — May 10, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder why the "authorities" can figure out some DNA samples in the case of the kidnapped women, Cleveland, I think, rather quickly, but stumblefxxk around most times with a DNA sample of other folks "accused"? The black guy? The Hispanic guy? These same "experts" need years to do the same. Do you ever wonder why the US has 25% of the world's incarcerated people? And we scream for "human rights"?

mrd — May 10, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, ever wonder why those who back/have abortion/s, yet they scream "no death penalty"?

ELISI — May 10, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 10, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.


nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc. I have no idea why you would side with Pollard.I have no idea how long you have been in this town.But I have 64 years.Pollard has screwed this town and county more than the 2 M&M;'s could possibly do.Take a look at who has supported him.It has always been the good old boy's.He is so intwined into Identity Clark County.What have they done except to make sure they make money off the deals that have been given to them.You rant and rave about the 2 M&Ms.You; need to learn where the real money comes from.I would like to tell you you on this forum but I can't.If you want to come talk to me I would be happy to inform you.A lot of the people on this forum have very strong feelings about what has been going on.but most don't know the history of what has happened 50 years ago and how intrenched that old money is in this town.Ask yourself why did Pollard get sent to our Vancouver Post.And why after all the years he put in he came out as only a Lt.Colonel.He should have after all his years been a full bird.They put him here because he couldn't handle a real assignment.The old money in this county is very afraid of what they see.You can rant all you want but you need to take a look at the history of this county.And where the big money comes from.If you think that Madore has money you know nothing.What he has does not even compare to those in Identity Clark County.They have real money and alot of it.Pollard is in bed with all of them.He has been their yes man for years.

timerick — May 10, 2013 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 10, 2013 at 9:14 p.m

Whatever about your military shot across the bow against Pollard, but Lt. Colonel isn't anything to be ashamed of.

Personal insults/accusations about character are all part of the entrenchment of local politics. They tend to push a lot of people away. Especially if one is fairly new to the area.

It's a big reason I have zero interest in this recall meet. That, and enacting a recall at this point is a bad idea in my opinion. At least with what I know.

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

!970's Vantucky politics?

The making of **CRANE**?

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think local Dems are making a mistake with talk of a recall. Remember those two blissful days when M & M were on the run? With little support from many who voted them in?

Now M & M can rally the troops behind them, growing, with purpose and $$$.

Instead of a referendum on ethics, or lack thereof, it's now a North-South battle.

M & M had the noose tight, the chair kicked out from under them, and now this. We jump in, cut the rope, and let them change the conversation as to why we didn't cut the rope quicker.

Now it's about Pollard & Co., not the other three Jokers.

Recalls should be a last resort, if a resort at all.

Just one Dem's opinion.

nailingit — May 10, 2013 at 11:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning HC. I think you have Madore dead to rights. He tries but can't seem to gather his thoughts into a cohesive idea. If it was up to me, I'd let him hang himself. No recall, just give him enough rope and stand back and watch. He is on his way to showing everyone what he's made of. Problem is, with his ego, he will never admit fault or failure.

Have a great day, off to work for me.

hawkeye — May 11, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Again, you are bailing out. The more you do, the lower you fall in my scale of talkers and doers...*

And you're jumping in (which I doubt) not knowing your A from a hole in the ground.

Feel free to keep me off your scale sparky. Glad to see you found your way to a dictionary.


This is part of the down side of activism. Finding something for the nuts to do.

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*If it was up to me, I'd let him hang himself.*


nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick and Nails,

RE: LTC (Ret) Pollard. Gee - I always thought he was a full bird at retirement. The on line bios are sketchy, but I see he went on AD in '61 and retired in '88; 26-27 years of service. He was in Korea, and says he accepted the offer to command Van Barracks in '85 because he wanted to come to the NW for his last tour with retirement in mind. No mention of Branch anywhere. What I do know is that the period in the late '70s/early to mid '80s was a rough time for many in the Army - people who thought they were going to make a career were given their pink slip - services no longer required. For officers, this appeared to be a branch specific thinning out - Field Artillery, for example, was hit hard. I'd also say that command of a nothing post like Van Barracks was at that time would have been a career ender for someone planning on moving up. But Pollard was wanting to retire, and his serving there for 3-4 years (a normal tour should have been 2 years) indicates the assignments people were willing to allow him to hang around. At any rate, I'd personally be very hesitant to claim he was a less than average officer because he "only" retired as an LTC. (Actually, his story is similar to my own - I was sitting in Germany turning down good assignments that would have gotten me promoted to Sergeant Major - I wanted Ft Lewis or nothing, because we were wanting to gear up to retire there. I even had a gov't job lined up in Germany, and said I'd drop my papers and retire there rather than go to D.C. And my Branch kept pushing back - Ft Lewis was overstrength. Out of the blue, a job in Portland came up - I didn't even know what it entailed, but took it anyhow. And we found we actually liked The Couve. So....)

roger — May 11, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye and nailingit: Recall is not the answer, I agree. These guys will break (probably already have) a law or two eventually if natural consequences takes its course. Hang themselves they will. It is only a matter of time.

The value of this meeting today is the message it continues to send M and M: we're unhappy with you and we're gonna watch you like you've never been watched before. This meeting also helps form a base of volunteers.

Madore has so much to learn about government laws and policies and procedures, but he thinks he knows it all. Even Mielke, not the sharpest guy in CC, hesitates every so often to join forces with Madore.

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You might be right Roger & Nails.I have most likely let my dislike of Pollard get to much of a hold on me.But as has been said before follow the money.Roger I have never met you but I am glad you chose Vancouver as your home.We need more people like you.Thanks for all the research you do.I think you have educated alot of us.

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mxfun118 - Kindly consider the term 'nonreligious.' Agnosticism requires a belief that the concept of a god is something more than a human is able to comprehend - it's more of a wait and see position. Nonreligious says that the matter isn't even important. I'd say that label applies to many who don't observe a religion today - especially those who claim Christianity, but let it end there.

I'm of the opinion the gods were someone else. There are too many similarities in beliefs covering thousands of years and different areas for these religions to be made up to put meaning into life. (And much of the Old Testament comes from earlier sources, by the way.) An alien race - who knows? There are also those who advance the possibility that the human race keeps progressing, and then is nearly wiped out due to massive geological changes; e.g. shifts of the earth's surface. They use this to explain inconsistencies in the traditional archeological teaching, pointing out such things like the oldest pyramids are the most advanced, and that the erosion patterns on the Sphinx are vertical - suggesting water and not wind/sand. And I defy anyone to explain how a bunch of cannibalistic barbarians with Stone Age technology and who painted themselves blue could even conceive of Stonehenge, much less build it, on their own.

Congrats on being able to set your own hours. Me - I retired, got bored, and decided I needed something low stress to stay occupied. That meant working for someone else.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore has so much to learn about government laws and policies and procedures, but he thinks he knows it all. Even Mielke, not the sharpest guy in CC, hesitates every so often to join forces with Madore.

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 7:58 a.m.

David is constantly getting schooled about policy/procedure. It's been really evident as of late with Stuart as his tutor.

About today's collective...

I know very little of Pollard, old time Vancouver politics, and where the $$$ will be going when the collection plate is passed around. (I've been at Dem meets a time or two in my life:) If this is turns into a resurrection of sorts, with Vancouver's old Dems...

I understand the upshot with volunteers. Then again, to attempt to strengthen the base a little, at this time, is it worth it considering the negatives?

As far as sending a message, I thought last Tuesday's meeting went great. Imagine keeping the pressure up that way. Every meeting. Might make the HuffPO! :)

Madore's troops are now energized (and we know what that can mean:( They had their head in their laps until this talk of recall.

Is the **CRANE** along with Peterson swooping in to attend in opposition? To recall all of the Dems? A circus to detour from Benton's hiring and other like minded crapola.

All this fanfare makes for great press and conversation, but at the end of the day...

... message wise, the Benton hiring becomes nothing more than a back page story, used by overreaching Dems to mount a failed recall.

I hope it doesn't turn out that way and something meaningful happens. Might consider getting involved with time and money.

Tell Pollard to feel free to put nailingit on speaker phone today. 1st time free of charge. After that...

Anyway, that's my opinion. I hope things go well today and eyes are kept on the prize. (the prize being next election?;)

(it's weird to refer to one's avatar in third party, but disturbingly cool)

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*We need more people like you.Thanks for all the research you do.I think you have educated alot of us.*

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.

Not to kiss up, but I second that. (exception for forced sterilization aside:)

roger — May 11, 2013 at 8:22 a.m.

I think you're on the right track.

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Editor Lou's interview with Ann Rivers is a 3 parter. Now - up front, I like Ann. Benton is my Senator, but Ann is the one who answers my e-mails. And they're usually real ones, sent from her blackberry. She also sends me her legislative updates, which are a lot more useful than what Don sends.

The first segment is a waste of time - He wants her to comment on the Benton hiring controversy, and she replies that she has more important things to focus on. The second is what I consider a very excellent analysis of where we stand with the CRC. No ranting about the evils of light rail or anything like that - more a down and dirty breakout of why the Senate will oppose many of the Transportation package proposals around the State that the House has, due to a lack of funding and WSDOT tolling estimates that have been repeatedly been shown to be wrong. She wants the CRC revisited, does repeat that just because OR says so is not a justification for LRT and personally doesn't support it, and also makes the point that Nancy Boyd repeatedly pushed for I205 tolling to build the CRC when she was with OR DOT. The third segment is Lou's favorite topic - Why should gov't employees have pensions? Ann spoke about a bill to stop the padding of retirement by working lots of overtime the last few years on the job, and also about a plan to offer a 401(k) option (I didn't hear if this would involve matching contributions) - Lou didn't seem satisfied and went to the fairness argument he uses - I shut down at that point.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, At about the 4 minute mark of video 2, Ann Rivers mentions reading something on Huffington Post.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, It's all about exchanging differences of opinion in a reasonable manner with me. I don't always agree with what you say, but read it anyhow and respond if it's something I'm interested in. And I approach Goldie in the same way. And both of you respond in kind. To me, that shows a level of respect that I appreciate.

I usually ignore those who go on bombastic rants while saying nothing, and I don't like the "give me a source, because what you as a common person thinks doesn't count" approach. But we all have to share the same space, so....

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the compliment. I'd like to hear more from you. My perspective is still one of a relative newcomer in this area (a little over 10 years) and influenced largely by living on the east side. People like you and Manthou have a wealth of knowledge about the goings on over there on the west side that needs to be heard. (Though I'm sure she cringed every time I mentioned plowing the old downtown under and turning it over to the Port, Manthou slowly educated me. Now I just want to plow everything south of the BNSF tracks under.)

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.

A somewhat compatible 3 way without protection.

Nowadays, how often does that happen?

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC -

Consider that David Madore is also standing on principle. He seems to be one of those who say the end justifies the means. Which, as Timerick points out (and which I concur with based on what I know) is also something Pollard practiced when he was in office. It's a good thing to have principles, but governing effectively involves a whole lot more.

Also, kindly consider that the crowd that's calling for a recall election is the same one that says a County wide vote on the CRC is a waste of time and money. There's more than a little inconsistency in that position.

Me? I want a vote on the CRC, because I believe the outcome is one I can agree with - That the people who will pay the most (through tolling) will have had a chance to say whether we're willing to pay for this project. I'm less thrilled with the recall effort. Personally, I doubt it will get past the judicial review that determines whether anything they've done is an impeachable offense (whether malfeasance or misfeasance). But if it does get to a vote I think it will fail, and will only serve to embolden M&M; to continue down their current path. I'm with those (like Nails and others here) who say that to continue blasting them every time they pull a stunt like this is probably more effective. Mielke will most likely be gone next time around - I'm betting Brandon Vick will run to replace him (whether that's an improvement is another thing). The numbers support that Madore won because of Democrats refusing to vote for Boldt, and because enough Indeps voted solely on the anti-CRC message. He could also easily be gone next time.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I would agree with plowing some of old Vancouver and replacing with some kind of industry.My hope is it would be clean industry.But don't plow the center of town.If you do please buy my building I would like to retire.

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou's the only guy I know who can conduct a twenty minute interview, with eighteen of those minutes him bloviating while framing a question. Frustrating to watch!

Rivers seems pretty likable and sincere.

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys all have a good day today.I am off to serve lunch to all the mothers of American Legion Post 14.Should be a very interesting day as we have quite a few that are widows of WW2 vets.

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A thoughtful discussion.

nailingit — May 11, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 11, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.

What Bill Baron was thinking was "can't wait until I'm out of here, this guy is driving me crazy. Dreaming about Hawaii, oh yea, sand, surf, many Mojitos! Ahh that's the life!

hawkeye — May 11, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I went to the meeting, so where was Holy?

luvithere — May 11, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hc I don't think they are crooked.They are trying to change a system that has been controlled by the select few for many years.As I said yesterday follow the old money.They have had complete control for years.Things need to change.You don't do it all at once.That is where Madore has made a big mistake.Your boy Pollard was no better he sucked up to all the big dogs in this county.I asked you to come down and I would give you my ideas about the last 50 or so years.The only thing that has changed is the players.The game is still the same.

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was also there - standing next to Debbie Peterson and was the person her comments were being made to. This was the first time we met - she got there late I guess; we were past the main speakers and into the crowd comments when I first noticed she was there. And for the most part she was correct. Just one of many half or untruths - the old coot who thought he was being clever blaming Don Benton for the "tax the bicyclists" statement. That was in fact Ed Orcutt. Someone made the comment that they had to find a good candidate because Mielke is so weak - I observed that I recall Tanner was the guy who could do that - and didn't. We were mostly discussing the litany of sins being recited (some good complaints and some just petty grievances). And we disagreed at times - I told her flat out that I don't much care for Madore, and that if he makes it past this little recall action (which he will) he'll become more arrogant than ever. She took that quite well - in fact, I found her to be a very pleasant lady - nothing like the angry person in the Vancouver city videos. (Maybe changing her hair color from reddish to dark brown helped?) Also, there was a guy with dark brown hair behind her who kept asking the same inane question about why was she there - she very nicely smiled and then ignored his dumb ass until he finally moved on.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was there with my husband. Third row left side facing stage on the aisle. We're in the photo, looking hot and tired. Had to stop for a brew to quench our dry throats; Loowit downtown. :)

The success of this plan, whichever one(s) are chosen will rely on young energy to infuse the aged there, for sure. Temple Lentz. Sunrise O'Mahoney. Laura Ellsworth. Val and Dan Ogden showed up again. It was a crowd. Keeping that energy and interest going will be the biggest challenge.

What you can do now, if you care:

1. Write or call the commissioners and tell them how you feel about the permanent moving of public comment to the end.
2. Show up at all the CCC meetings you can.
3. Write LTEs to The Columbian.

Roger summarized the high points well on the FB side. Maybe he will cut and paste here.

I looked for Debbie Peterson, but could not see her.

Where was she, Holy C?

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Royce Pollard was a tired old guy who didn't know what he was talking about. That whole event would have been a flop if Craig Pridemore wasn't there serving as moderator. In my opinion, his discussion of home rule made that meeting worthwhile.

I pissed the lady from OPB off before it even started. She came up and was talking to a few ladies who were behind me. One mentioned misfeasance and not being certain what M&M; did fit that (looks like someone actually reads closely and digests important details!). I said she was probably correct; that if they can't prove misfeasance or malfeasance, then it'll never get past the judicial review and onto the ballot. And that failure to comply with open air rules has not been upheld as cause in previous cases. Ms. OPB gave me a dirty look and moved on.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:15 p.m.

I have never actually met Debbie but have had several "discussions" with her. I have never quite figured out why she couldn't get her new license plates installed on her car for over a month. She said she had been stopped twice by the police but didn't get a ticket because she had the plates in her car, just not ON the car.

I have found her statements to be disjointed, scattered and not coherent but in person, who knows.

hawkeye — May 11, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Rory Bowman got up near the end and asked a very important question that Pollard fumbled through earlier - If the recall effort is successful, how will the replacements be appointed. I believe it was Pridemore who explained what happens if one is recalled (the two remaining Comms select the replacement) and if two are (the Gov picks the first, and then the now two Comms pick the last). But then someone I couldn't ID (standing near the back of the chairs on the other side of the room from me) made a very critical observation - that they had to be from the same political party as those being replaced. The guy on the stage who was being referred to by Pridemore as his attorney and as the real expert concurred - they must be selected from the same political party. The room was silent, so if you heard a stage whisper "That means they have to be Republicans" - that was me.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, I see she was next to roger. :)

I cringed at that Orcutt mistake. Again. Keeping people focused on one issue was a little like herding cats, for sure, but I think Pridemore did a good job in reigning them in. I really, really hate the unproductive b*tching that goes on in political meetings because it eats up precious time, but, for the most part, it was well-contained.

The least likely thing to be successful: the recall. I'm all for letting the chips fall where they may with Madore because he will, most assuredly, trip himself up.

Someone mentioned the possible Federal violation of equal opportunity laws: protected classes were denied access to the application. I will let the lawyers fight about that.

Jim Moeller jokingly (I hope) said he would apply for Bill Barron's job. If Don Benton can get hired by the county, so can he.

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Clarification: Moeller was not there. This is something he posted on the FB side.

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was behind the couple with the red Sierra Club shirts. Manthou, that you on picture looking a bit to the side?

So sorry that I can't spot Roger, it would have been a pleasure to just say hello, to both of you.

I looked around for a handsome, stern, and determined biker type, Holy, but could not place you whatsoever -lol.

luvithere — May 11, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - I understand. I stay away from arguing with her when she's on a rant, and there are many times I think she and the other lady (Madore's stooge) are hurting the anti-CRC cause. And after I asked if she was Debbie Peterson and then introduced myself, she thanked me for all my work to help the CRC cause. I had to bite my tongue - I know she's been at this for a long time and with her involvement with the city ballot vote effort considers herself a leader of the movement, but that's the wrong thing to say to me. It sounds too much like "Thank you for your service", which has been known to elicit a "Did you serve? Why not, if you consider it so important?" from me. HOWEVER - This was my first face to face with her, and I found her to be very likeable. What can I say. We also had a nice pleasant conversation on the merits of chocolate. Damn - in retrospect, I might have been flirting a little with her.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Look, it is easy, I guess, to pick apart everyone's flaws. We all have 'em. I was impressed that so many people took the time gto come out, cram themselves into a hotbox for a couple of hours, and attempt to problem solve.

These are the type of people I want as neighbors: people who care and want to do something about their discontent.

We will see where it all goes. I will be helping when and how I can and cheering on those with greater energy than I. :)

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: We were in front of the red-shirted Sierra Club folks: right on the aisle next to the windows.

Yep, that's me. Green shirt and white button with my gray-haired long-suffering husband to my right. :)
Wish we had connected! Maybe another time. :)

This is gonna be a long haul, for sure. Lots of opportunities.

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dang, Manthou, so close we were..... I brought my kid. Just got back from DC last nite and was willing to come along. As she's studies politics, she was actually already aware of the local shenanigans.

Next time for sure.

luvithere — May 11, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was right in front of the last window. I was next to it, but gave up my window space to a lady (I was raised to be a gentleman). I saw the Sierra shirts, so I probably saw you at the same time, luvithere. Debby left before it was over - said something about her aunt visiting. See the end of my previous comment.

I also had a nice chat with Mike Briggs after things started breaking up - he was an older guy sitting at first, but who stood up against the wall separating the two hallway doors when the call went out to give up your seat for the really old folks. He was talking with a lady with blond hair early on. Anyhow, we agreed that this will be a very hard effort to pull off. As Pridemore kept emphasizing - this won't be easy; it'll take people who are very committed and in it for the long haul. Mike agreed, and observed that many will probably get frustrated and drop. He also agreed with my observation that the crowd that was there will probably be matched in both numbers and enthusiasm by members of Madore's church. I got the impression that while he detests both Madore and Mielke, he doesn't like the recall process for situations like this - he'd rather use the election process to get rid of them. (This would be consistent with our on going argument over the relationship between the officials and those who elect them.)

roger — May 11, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I also don't think the recall effort will go through, but I went to show force. I tend to agree with Manthou that Madore will dig his own grave eventually. I don't think this guy can stop.
However, The Benton hire... He needs to go, period. If he had a shred of decency, he would. But then,...

luvithere — May 11, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I recognize you - you guys came in a bit past 3 and stood in the back for a few moments before moving up to sit. We looked at each other a couple of times when we were both scanning the room, and I was wondering if you were a basement type. I was standing by the window, dressed in jeans, gray t-shirt, faded red short sleeve shirt for a jacket, and had a tan ball cap. I'm thinking you guys moved up to sit at about the time I was getting on Ms. OPB's nerves. I'm not sure, but maybe you were standing by the front door chatting after it was over? I think you were there when I was leaving.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys: we're gonna have to identify some sort of code word. Shout it out in the crowd and see who responds. :) Be thinking of some good ones.

I wish I had gotten to shake your hands, luvithere, roger, holyc. Next time. This is not going away.

I guess Jim Moeller WAS there. Missed seeing him. He said on FB that he has not seen so many gather for a political cause in a long time. Or something to that effect.

Judy Stanton, a former CC Commissioner, cautioned about the 5 person commission: it is easier to do backroom deals because 2 commissioners are not a quorum.

Looks like I am gonna have to do some research on the home rule freeholder option.

Anyone have any thoughts on these choices? What are the chances of getting Madore on board for freeholders now? Pretty small.........

manthou — May 11, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregonlive has a great summary on Clark County's freeholder option from 2011.

Homework time:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 11, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No, HolyC - I can't be seen - I'm behind the bald head. The guy in the dark hat leaning against the wall and looking down was next to me - He was taking notes throughout. Debbie Peterson was also taking notes. Question - Why do people who plan on writing everything down bring those little 3x5 notebooks and have to write tiny little scribbles? Seems to me that's what they made steno pads for - something where you can get more than a few words per page.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I thought of going around saying "Basement" to likely candidates, but figured I'd end up getting my face slapped.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jim Moeller said it was too damned hot - He signed the mailing list, threw some spare change into the bucket, got pissed because they ran out of buttons, and left. (OK -I made some of that up.)

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That business of home rule is going to take a lot of studying up on. From the sounds of it, the freeholders can devise any kind of government they want. I'm sure there has to be some sort of restrictions, but if the freeholder group can be stacked (and someone there was concerned about Madore buying seats at the table), then we could easily end up a lot worse off than now.

What continues to get me is the current system for electing County Comms. In the primary, we just vote for our own district and come up with the top 2. Then in the generals we get to vote for every district Commissioner who's running. Why should I get to vote for Mielke or Stuart - I don't live there!!! And why can't I vote for Vanc City Mayor, or the 49th Dist people??? Why is my favorite local legislator a blankety blank Repub from La Center? I've never even been to La Center!!!

It's been a rough day. Maybe Nails had the right idea; staying away from that meeting hall would have meant a whole lot less stress. Back to facebook for a moment - an idiot Madorite took exception to me telling Jim Moeller those were his people there; no idea why this bothers him, but I am enjoying the opportunity to tell him of the disdain I hold for his crowd. (And no - that nice lady named Peterson is not a Madorite. I don't think so, anyhow.) Anyhow - good night.

roger — May 11, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timeric@ 6:12 p.m., I agree with your assessment of the reason for Benton’s appointment. I too think that the bigger issue is shaking things up. Change is hard to accept. By anyone: regardless of what the Leftist’s think. Look at who was outraged by Clinton’s “ending welfare as we know it”.

Newton’s first law states this perfectly, and offhand, I can’t think of any other law of the natural sciences which so well descibes the psychology of certain entrenched thinking.

The Leftist’s can hardly be blamed for their disgust over the way in which Benton was chosen, but it might be nice for them to also see that if the shoe were on the other foot, then both sides might be 180 on their respective positions. (Sort of like the user fee issue seems to have come 180, by opposing sides; when it comes to Madore and park fee removal.)

Too much to hope for I suppose.

From the description in the paper, and from the comments that have followed, it really isn’t a stretch to see what political stripe is behind this ill-fated recall effort. And the bias involved.

On a slightly different note: I’m not sure exactly what old money you may be referring to, but certainly, the Al Angelo Company is one. And here’s the thing about that. It took me a while to see Roger’s point about the importance of Gramor Development’s Waterfront project, in relation to light rail. Gramor Development’s website mentions other investors, but does not identify who they are. I’m not sure - input here anyone? - I do believe that the Al Angelo Company is one of those. Nothing wrong with that. Fine. But they are a big monied interest, have a storied background and current presence here in Clark County, and actually up and down the West Coast, as a major landowner, developer and landlord, and may have a huge influence on how this light rail thing unfolds.

Just who is it that is siding with just who? Think about that one people. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

kn_dalai — May 11, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry I missed all the fun.We served over 75 mothers,most from WW2.It was a great day.HC contact me any time you want.Roger thank you for your level headed work.Things will all work out.Most bad people don't get away with it for to long.

timerick — May 11, 2013 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


light rail *bad*.

bridge (w/o light rail but *with* more lanes and higher for river traffic) *good*.

madore/mielke *bad* for doing in the full light of day what other pol's do behind closed doors (cronyism appointments).

current ad hoc gatherings of citizens by pols concentrate on the madore recall possiblities, rather than getting the **DECIDING** vote on LR on the ballot and severing it's umbilical chord to vantucky's power & monied elite.

that about right....?

DeeLittle — May 11, 2013 at 10:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

question for the group:

are you against benton's appt because of the process used or the feared results from him heading this office?

DeeLittle — May 11, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee Little: If the objective integrity of the Clark County hiring process had been honored, Mr. Benton would likely not have been able to compete with the qualifications of others interested in the job.

So yeah. That is the first problem. M and M did not hire him for his expertise and experience (as they claim) but for his political alliance and the insurance he would rubber stamp Madore's grand plans.

Now that Mr. Benton has been gifted this import administrative position by his buddies, I, and many others worry about what he will do to promote unchecked development at the expense of environmental protections.

Hey, maybe he is a closet environmentalist. Maybe he will surprise me.

Maybe it will rain gold today.

By the way, Dee, Happy Mother's Day. There is a special place in my heart for mothers who have survived the loss of a child(ren). It is a solemn sisterhood.

manthou — May 12, 2013 at 5:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle; Actually both. #1- No background in environmental services. #2- The sneaky way he was hired. He will not give up the post because it will pad his benefits. Nobody who is thrown a bone like that will willingly give it up. Morals be damned.

To most people he should have turned it down, but we all know what kind of political person he is. A 'ME FIRST" politician. His selection was not a fluke.

I would suggest that if you want to make the retirement benny's more like the real worlds then you have to let the state legislation know that. I really don't know how it got so bad with the state benefits issue but there's gotta be a law. I bet most are sick and tired of how the workers and politicians for the state manipulate the system for personal gain.

One last thought. The system set up for recalls suck. We all know that. It's all about the cost (money). Lawyers are not cheap when it comes to maybe getting money for a recall petition. They know a cash cow when they see one. And after it is all done and said you can still lose. The lawyers will still get their money.

JohnCasey — May 12, 2013 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

***By the way, Dee, Happy Mother's Day. There is a special place in my heart for mothers who have survived the loss of a child(ren). It is a solemn sisterhood. manthou — May 12, 2013 at 5:39 a.m.***

thanks. never gets fixed, but any animal can walk after being maimed if they have the time to adapt. and what's the alternative...?

do you have a similar experience....?

DeeLittle — May 12, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

just thinking....

if we didn't already *have* corruption and influence-buying there wouldn't be any attraction to the madore et al candidate type.

remember, he was elected for the same reason leavitt was: a vote *against*.

in the former's case, we actually got what we voted for. as the scorpion said, "you knew when you picked me up what i was."

of the two opposing forces, county commissioner activities vs. light rail supporters, i'll take the uneducated outsider fulfilling voter demands over the paid-for politicians any day.

DeeLittle — May 12, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

***HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY, all you mothers out there***

DeeLittle — May 12, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — May 12, 2013 at 5:56 a.m.,

Actually, it looks as though Benton "applied" for the job. The minimal documentation provided shows an e-mail from Madore to Barron saying they should change the job's requirements and seek someone with a strong background in management (vs. an environmental background). This was followed by Benton contacting him saying "I'm your man!" and sending his resume. Then we get to Madore at the County meeting, saying we can forego the hiring process because we've found our man. And we get to hear a very perturbed Stuart - they were supposed to have a workshop to discuss what the job should require, and then seek qualified applicants.

Other than probably leaving out some addressees on these e-mails, have I missed the boat on any of this?

roger — May 12, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning all:

Dee, and all you ladies out there, happy Mother's day.

To answer your question, in my mind, both of your questions deserve a "yes" answer. The process was ignored, he has no actual qualifications for the position and I don't think he has any idea of what his uneducated actions could result in.

HC, you are 100% correct about Lairds column today. It was great. I do have to add that I was one of the ones that bucked the system a little in that being a Democrat, I voted for Boldt. I'm not psychic but a blind man could have and SHOULD have seen the writing on the wall in that election but as we all know, money talks and in this case, BS stayed right where it is.

hawkeye — May 12, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle @ 7:34 am. Yes. Eight years ago in July.

roger @ 8:45 am: Seems like you have known facts correct, based on the documents and audio published by the C. We assume there is something much more behind the scenes. Maybe some tenacious sleuth will ferret them out. Maybe not.

Lew W is trying to spin this as Barron's fault: When Madore backpedaled on the audio, he asked Bill Barron to call Benton in to interview. Barron, knowing, I suspect, that this was transparent window-dressing only, declined.

He knew that, regardless of what his recommendations would be after an interview, Madore and Mielke's minds were made up. They already circumvented Barron.

Here is what is so disgusting about citizen oversight in politics: it becomes so odious that most reasonable people just give up to save their health and happiness. Craig Pridemore alluded to this yesterday: politicians wear us down. They count on this truth about human behavior. We throw our hands up and go on with our daily lives eventually. They outlive us.

A friend of mine, after the meeting yesterday, said this: "I'd rather cozy up to a 3 day old corpse than a politician."

I hope some of us have good nose plugs and stamina to wait this fight out.

manthou — May 12, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**A Mothers Day Proclamation**

Arise then...women of this day!

Arise, all women who have hearts! Whether your baptism be of water or of tears!

Say firmly...

"Disarm! Disarm!

The sword of murder is not the balance of justice."

Blood does not wipe our dishonor,

Nor violence indicate possession.

As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil

At the summons of war,

Let women now leave all that may be left of home

For a great and earnest day of counsel.

Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.

Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the means

Whereby the great human family can live in peace...

Each bearing after his own time the sacred impress, not of Caesar, But of God -

~Julia Ward Howe~

nailingit — May 12, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee I am not a mother but I do know how you feel.I lost my Daughter 7 years ago this July.The pain softens a little but never goes away.

timerick — May 12, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I left one thing out earlier because it puzzles me. Goldie provided a link to a job advertisement for the director's job in question. I read it, and it sounds like what Madore says the job should be - not what he's complaining about. And when compared to Benton's resume, he is qualified (minimally, but qualified). This is a job notice, and it's marked closed.

I checked, and can't find the job listed anywhere else. Not unusual; federal jobs drop from the job sites after the closing date. And it seems we don't like to put closing dates in our announcements. (The Clark County website jobs listing seems to be down - hmmm....)

But I went on a hunch and checked elsewhere - Goldie also shared this job posting with Lew Waters back on 2 May. Interesting - I was expecting her to have gotten it from there. Also also odd is that Lew doesn't appear to be interested in this - just the Commissioners' rules and ethics. The other thing Goldie says is that if you want a copy, you better save it (from her link) because it will probably disappear soon.

So - with our friend on sabbatical, I'm at a bit of an impasse. I'm very curious as to whether this is the job announcement Gray was hired under, which would lend support to this blow up about Benton's credentials being more a political fight than anything else. But - as questioned in the beginning of this post - if this is based on the rewritten job description, then how did it get out there without Stuart knowing?

roger — May 12, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe not the same as a child, but I think similar - I had to leave earlier to go change the flowers out at my wife's grave and have a short chat with her. I wanted to beat the after church crowd - I don't like having people around for these visits.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 12, 2013 at 10:47 a.m

Roger, I think that link you posted was the original post that Gray was hired under since it says it is a new department and will be put together from employees from other areas. I don't think Benton would be qualified under this description.

hawkeye — May 12, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger@ 10:47 am: When I have good questions like yours, I rely on our open records laws and simply write and ask for the documents. Be specific. I always like primary source documents because, outside Bill Barron, maybe, or Francine Reis (HR Director), we would only be speculating.

And I bet that even they would need to look that info up, too.

I think the real legal problem may lie in denying equal access and opportunity to apply for the job and compete against Mr. Benton's bonafides, especially if one is a member of a protected Federal class of citizen.

Theoretically, could an environmental services director from King County, say, who had 20 years experience and was an African American female file a strong case against Clark County for denying her equal opportunity to apply for the the job? Could an internal prospective candidate do the same? We may find out in time, if someone comes forward with such a case.

My understanding was that this job was never posted. They were getting set to wrangle over the job description and then post it when Benton submitted his surprise application and resume, at the urging of his pals. I could be wrong.

Time for more investigative work by the Columbian.

manthou — May 12, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I re-read that job posting goldie had, and it says that Environmental Services is a "new" department in Clark County.

I am speculating that this is the job description Kevin Gray applied for. Environmental Services was formed in January of 2010.

I'm willing to give Mr. Benton time to see what he does with this job. What choice do we really have anyway? :)

Past behavior is always one of the best predictor of future behavior, however, which is one of the reasons the citizenry are up in arms, I think.

manthou — May 12, 2013 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Roger I go to visit my daughter in the mornings right after they open the gates.I also do not like people around.

timerick — May 12, 2013 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was there yesterday. I gave a note to Pridemore asking him to mention Forums. He spoke to me but didn't understand so he just put the note on the table. I found it at the end of the meeting and talked to Pollard and encouraged him to check us out and include in their information since they were asking for ways to reach people. I tried to explain to both of them how to access.

I found the person who confused Benton with Orcutt and told him he misspoke. He saw it in the C. I told him there was a correction. He said that he hadn't seen it.

I am opposed to a recall. I want people to get to know Madore. How many have watched BoCC since January? Were you watching City Council when Madore and his minions were there speaking at every opportunity? Look at his brain trust, his kneepad brigade --- Kelly Hinton, Josephine Fuentes Jaye Mitchell Wentzel, Deborah Ann Peterson*, Carolyn Crain, Cory Barnes, both Millers, Dick Sohn, Steve Herman, Penny Ross, Christian Berrigan, and Lynda Wilson. Which ones do you want to see appointed to anything?

Read Kelly Hinton's blog ---

Holyc --- When you refer to Madore's church do you mean LifePoint or the church that he lists on his new resume - the Grace Foursquare church in Camas?

*Debbie Peterson has changed her name on Facebook. She is Deborah Ann Peterson and Deborah Anne Peterson.

Roger --- You need to get out more.

langenthal — May 12, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Per his resume, Benton has a Bachelors degree. The other requirement is "at least 8 years of responsible management experience directing complex environmental services functions and services, or related operations." It follows to say any combination of training, education and experience will be considered. Benton can use his time in the legislature (since '94) to meet that requirement - he can claim he has had to learn the laws and other aspects of environmental management to perform those duties. His web page notes "Don has also been recognized by the Association of Washington Business for his business, sound environmental and anti-tax voting record" - Unfortunately, the Commissioners are the only ones who get to interpret the meaning of "sound environmental." Oh - and he was raised on a farm.

Once again, I'm not defending the selection - But I'll bet he does in fact meet MINIMUM qualifications. And I'm sure our two Comms could also get away with claiming his high standing and overall importance in the State gov't is of immeasurable value.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I missed that new department part - Thanks. Now I'm wondering how Goldie could pull that one up. I couldn't find a way to get past current postings for the past 60 days. And I'm even more curious as to why she would think it would soon be deleted.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC - You spend way too much time trying to apply right and wrong. Even you note that most people are more concerned with basic survival than any of this silly politics stuff. Let's presume that the people from yesterday's meeting actually get organized, scrape up the money for a qualified attorney, and come up with some charges that will pass judicial review. (Side note - Wolfe from the Port, who was there, is an extremely knowledgeable attorney - why isn't he volunteering to do this?)

OK - So now we're ready to go collect signatures on the petition. As someone noted, the goal needs to be 50,000 to allow for duplicates and disqualifications. That is going to take a large number of committed volunteers - people who aren't going to get discouraged by the indifference of a large portion of the population or by the crap they will most definitely get from the Madorites and the other neoCon voters. They'll start out with a bang - probably nice T-shirts and the whole deal. But as the summer drags on, and that magical number is still a long way off, people will drop. This is why Pridemore kept preaching that they need to be prepared to stay for the long haul - To me, he was saying the real plan is to keep the pressure on, keep raising a stink every time they do something considered wrong or unethical, and work on removing one or both at the next election.

Maybe the hiring can be overturned, due to EEO violation or other reason, but you won't get a recall through on this.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC - There are only three opinions that truly count in the here and now, and as the dissenting one (Stuart) has already noted, the other two can make this happen. His outrage was mainly over failure to use the accepted process - and as others are accepting, trying to see if something like an EEO violation exists is a whole lot better approach than carrying on about how Benton will allow the developers who support him to rape the environment.

Now, if you want to help find an opponent who can beat one of them in the next election - have at it. Though you may be better off helping see that Stuart gets reelected first - he's a prime target in 2014, and with this screwy system we have, the Repubs who carried the other two districts may be enough to beat him.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC - Interesting. I also could only find the one anti-Madore page.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Langenthal - Sage advice. Once I verified the Repub party submits the slate of candidates, I went and checked their website. Saw a few of the names you mentioned - most notably Lynda Wilson. I was also wondering about Brandon Vick - Wasn't he the party honcho who got Boldt "unrecognized" or whatever they did to him? From his lack of participation in the House (seems all other freshman legislators submitted or helped with bills; he did nothing), I wouldn't be surprised if all they want is to get this on his resume so he can run to replace Mielke in 2016.

As for the other matter - what can I say. We spoke on and off for about 20-30 minutes, mainly about the details of what people were saying. But we also went to nonpolitical topics (such as the merits of chocolate). Once again, I found her quite pleasant - nothing like the person who goes off on Vancouver City Council. Maybe she just can't bring herself to be all nicey nice with people she detests (like Tim Leavitt). I've known more than one person like that over the years.

roger — May 12, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC - Both pages are still there.

Ron Goodman posted a few times on this first one - I've also seen his comments on the C lately; a reasonable person who puts out good info with getting all dramatic.

The new group - a lot of people signed on just today, and several more invites to join pending. Pat Jolotta and Tim Leavitt are among the on boards; Jim Moeller and Temple Lentz among the pendings. This is a closed group - I presume they intend to post info, but keep the riff raff from posting. (Washington for CRC got clobbered early on; someone would post one of their rah rah comments, and then get shot down by the bad guys.)

roger — May 12, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 12, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.

Not to mention a significant group exists who oppose recall, except for the most grievous of offenses.

It's not only a matter of gauging a successful recall outcome, (imo) but consideration must be given as to the integrity of it. As this effort drags on, (in whatever form) the optics could become less than flattering for those adamantly opposing Madore.

Dave will take care of himself if we let him.

Laird's column was pretty spot on. Elections do have consequences.

So far this effort seems somewhat bi-partisan. Maybe instead of a recall effort, energy would be better spent forming a citizens oversight/watchdog group, with folks on both sides of the aisle participating. Something that endures longer than the flavor of the day.

(And it would give ya a chance to spend a little more time with Deb;)

nailingit — May 12, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Call it..


**C**itizens **O**wning **D**a **G**overnment **E**ncouraging **R**esponsibility

nailingit — May 12, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well here's a question for our little group;

Anybody know why gas has gone up $.40 in the last two weeks? It makes no sense to me.

hawkeye — May 12, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Everyone has a Jo Jo.

**The Week in Wingnuts: Michele Bachmann's '9-11' Pray Day and More**

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann really wants a September 11 “National Day of Prayer and Fasting,” not only to commemorate the lives lost on that fateful date in 2001 and 2012, but to reflect on the things we, as Americans, have done to cause God such disappointment that he would choose to punish our country twice on the same date. “Our nation has seen judgement not once but twice on September 11 and that’s why we’re going to have ‘9-11 Pray’ on that day,” she said at a Capitol Hill event this week. “Is there anything better that we can do on that day rather than to humble ourselves and pray to an almighty God?” Bachmann has joined forces with World Net Daily editor Joseph Farah to promote the event. 9-11 Pray Day is necessary, Farah said, because the U.S. is experiencing a “slide from moral malaise to cultural hedonism” – pointing to support for gay marriage and equal rights as examples.

nailingit — May 12, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails. Michelle Bachman is gaga. Period. :)

luvithere — May 12, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 12, 2013 at 7:16 p.m.

"Guys, we are approaching 600 comments this week. It has been a marathon. Congratulations to everyone even the trolls."

Seriously? You counted? I hope you aren't on your scooter, it's going to be slippery tonight. Drive carefully.

hawkeye — May 12, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - We're in agreement on the recall effort, though perhaps for different reasons. And you know who else is there? Mike Briggs. And he says exactly the same as you - hmmm... You guys know each other? Anyhow, CODGER sounds about right; I was feeling like a youngster when looking around that crowd in the firehall.

HolyC - What - you think you're the only one who can play soap opera around here??? As I said before - She was a very nice, easy to get along with person when I was talking with her. Pay no attention to that person tearing up the facebook side tonight - I think it's her red haired doppleganger.

Luvithere - I'm sure Michelle has a rational side that comes out when properly medicated. Geez - We really need to look for the good in those around us - no one is perfect - Or whatever manthou said this morning.

Hawkeye - There's a Vespa dealership off of OR 30 near the downtown area - you think maybe?????

roger — May 12, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, you mellow codger you. Good of you to think Bachman has a rational side. The rub is, of course, that she seems to forget her meds.
I had a good day also. Kiddie home from college, what more does Mom need.

luvithere — May 12, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From Ron Goodman on the recall page:

The Board of Commissioners Rules of Practice, the governing document, last revised February, 2013, states in Rule XVI. Appointment, Review, and Removal of Department Heads Para. A: Appointment and removal of all non-elected County department heads shall be made by the County Administrator with the advise and consent of the County Board of Commissioners.

As I see it, until and unless the Board of Commissioners votes to suspend their Rules of Practice, and I've seen no evidence this was done, the Commissioners can vote up or down to confirm the County Administrator's pick; but, they don't get to pick his pick. The County Administrator's selection process is governed by the 206-page County Human Resource Policy manual. That manual is in place to ensure equal opportunity in announcement, recruitment, and selection, of a candidate best qualified to serve the people of the County.

So, I don't believe the commissioners were within their rights in the manner they most likely exercised those rights, and I'm not at all certain Equal Opportunity Act violations didn't happen at the same time. The lawyers will tell us soon enough on both counts.

***I have to agree***

hawkeye — May 12, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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