Open forum, May 13-19



The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your ID or register for an account at

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor John Hill --



Good morning all, I will pose this question then I'm off to work. Catch you all later.

Can anyone tell me why gas is going up so high? Is it because it's summer (coming) or the weather on the East coast or what? Any ideas? Thanks.

hawkeye — May 13, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — May 13, 2013 at 6:42 a.m

Talked with my daughter who lives in Alaska last night, she told me..

That oil production is at an almost stand still there. Only one still on the North-Slope testing is Shell. So very little is coming out of Alaska at the moment. Others have pretty much left cause of environmentalist and went to the Dakotas. That might be one of the reasons.

ELISI — May 13, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 13, 2013 at 6:46 a.m

Must I remind you, you are just as guilty as Peterson, so kettle meet pot.

Your "ass-umption"/s are all over the forum.

We are ALL guilty of it, if... You haven't any concrete proof or you have never met or know the person, personally, then you are "assuming".

ELISI — May 13, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - Prices always go up this time of year. The reason given is because we're switching over to the Calif standards "summertime blend" with a higher ethanol content. Seems that stuff is more expensive than straight gasoline.

Or something like that. I'm of the opinion our Northwest governments allow the companies to jack the prices up - part of the "get the masses out of personal cars" agenda. Every so often, when we complain loud enough, Cantwell will threaten an investigation into price gouging, and then they'll drop enough to quiet us down. Ever hear of her actually convening one of these look-sees?

roger — May 13, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You must have gone on Debbie Peterson overload and missed her retraction. (Understandable - She must have put out about 100 or so comments last night.) She said she apologizes for the mistake - that actually Steve Stuart was appointed to replace Pridemore at County. She also apologized for another mistake. And she says she refuses to have a TV. And she wants Lance Sjolen to run for office. And she has no idea who the Hounds of Whinerville are. She's decided to name Wylie and two others The Sopranos. And that lady needs to learn when to shut up!!!

roger — May 13, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's an idea from Oregon that WA should perhaps consider. Soon.

The Oregon legislature has floated this idea as a way to save money on public employees pension (from Oregonlive):

**Republicans say removing judges, legislators and statewide elected officials from PERS would end conflicts of interest and bring more credibility to the system.****

Let's get someone on this in Washington. Maybe Benton will resign because this hassle of holding on to his new job gift will suddenly not become worth it to him?

Benton controversy aside: it is a great idea from the Repubs in the Oregon legislature.

manthou — May 13, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere -

RE: Your last observation from last night. Would you agree we get plenty of practice here?

roger — May 13, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: "that lady needs to learn when to shut up!!"

I have considered recently giving myself the same advice. :)))

There are two very controversial and polarizing topics affecting CC now: the CRC and the Benton hire. Two huge meetings coming up on Tuesday: one in the evening for the RTC to discuss the CRC and the morning CCC meeting, where the Benton topic and public comment placement on the agenda.

I always worry that those who are "frequent flyers" at meetings risk losing their audience attention after their initial points were made, especially when the delivery is nasty and the points backed up by emotion and fear, not facts.

This is a fine line, for sure: how to avoid overexposure resulting in closed ears and minds. I do think that the tenacious advocates against the CRC and LR have done some damage and might even stop this entire project in its tracks (literally).

The Benton hire and watchdogging the CCC have captured the passions of a whole new group of citizen advocates and they deserve their chance to make a difference as well as becoming a new set of frequent flyers.

How to advocate in a way that inspires and makes people listen is a rare skill. Wish I knew the trick.

manthou — May 13, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger - are you referring to my comment last night re people forgetting their meds?

luvithere — May 13, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gee...who woulda thought?

**Twitter Hate Speech Map Pinpoints Racist, Homophobic Hotspots Across U.S.**

nailingit — May 13, 2013 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Somethin's happen here. What it is ain't exactly clear.....

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 13, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Hate Speech Map it interesting...

But, what's up with Hood River? Nothing to do there but tweet hate? Even beats out Seattle area, all of Oregon, and the Sacramento and Los Angeles areas. Perhaps urban haters are just more electronicly sophisticated so can not be geocoded (my new word for the day). Or, is it hate on this level is a more rural pastime?

jacjak — May 13, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 13, 2013 at 2:31 p.m

Oh Lou, it might not be clear to you but we all know what's going on.

Hey Lou, research the gas prices, will you? Up almost a buck in the last month, somethin' ain't right!

hawkeye — May 13, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As for Hood River, maybe it's all that high tech equipment making people crazy. Between Insitu, UTC Aerospace Systems and SMK Tech, who knows what these people are being exposed to.

hawkeye — May 13, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep...

Drift — May 13, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On the Hood River racism. I also wondered why. Then I thought to combine two main ingredients (at least from what I have witnessed) that are synonymous with rampant racism.

Booze and the Christian Church.

And sure enough...I didn't come across any Hood River per capita data to run a comparison, but Da Hood seems to have a butt-ton of churhes. And of course, they are all conservative Christian based!

And when it comes to booze, well...

**Hood River puts Portland to shame in number of breweries per capita**

MARCH 20TH, 2012

Again. Booze+Christians=Racism

Not always of course, but mixing these two ingredients provide a powerful elixir.

I would suggest ingesting some quality Bud & and delving into Tao for a start.

At least a rerun of the old Jack Benny Show.

(I don't suspect around a 25% Hispanic pop has anything to do with it.! ;)


In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.


nailingit — May 13, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail did I miss some news?What is going on in Hood River?

timerick — May 13, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

City Council

6:30 pm tonight

Citizen Forum after Consent Agenda

langenthal — May 13, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - "Good of you to think Bachman has a rational side." Not meds - just that we have the opportunity to practice tolerance here on a regular basis.

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — at 8:49 a.m. -- I suppose most of us would have to say the same. But that takes all the fun out of it!!!

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC -- "Who of the ones opposed to the CRC/LRT actually cross the bridge day in and day out in order to make a living......"

Many of us do.

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: The racist twitter map. Wow - AZ is almost clear. Wonder if that means something else is behind whatever Sheriff Joey is up to this week?

Interesting that you bring this up, though. We (my boss and I) were on the road again today. There's a crazy doofus on after Rush (someday I'll make the effort to know his name) - He went into a little spiel about when are we going to learn to not be afraid of being called racist. But it was lunchtime, so I missed whatever his argument was.

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not sure why we're doing Buffalo Springfield, but here's mt contribution --

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: Gas prices. Crazy to have to read a Coos Bay article to get an explanation.

roger — May 13, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There are a few attention getters in the news lately, that have received scant at most, to no comments at all.

1. The apparent cover up, by the WH, including Hillary, of what really happened in Benghazi, including congressional testimony from deputy ambassador Hicks that special forces were told to stand down and that lazer equipt aircraft could have been on the scene in an hour and dispersed the crowd, contradictng WH claims.
2. The revelation that the IRS discriminated against political Rightist groups by singling them out for scrutiny during the last campaign season.
3. And today’s revelation by AP CEO Gary Pruitt that “The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a "massive and unprecedented intrusion" into how news organizations gather the news.”

What? No comments? No outrage?

One will note that this basement here, consists of just a handful. Most of which are Leftists. Most of which are very Left. A good study in bias, as far as I’m concerned.

kn_dalai — May 13, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — May 13, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. - @ 12:17

nailingit — May 13, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Sarah Palin for Senate?**

A Tea Party group tries to draft Palin to make a run in 2014

**The Group Behind the Draft Palin Movement**

**Sarah Palin for Senate? Some tea party activists want her to run**

SEATTLE — Sarah Palin’s last elective position in Alaska ended early when in 2009 she abandoned the governorship midway through her first term.

But tea party activists appear eager for a comeback, urging supporters to contribute money toward recruiting Palin to run for the U.S. Senate in her home state, where, according to an email sent out this week, she has a “clear path” to defeat incumbent Democrat Mark Begich.
“You and I both know that Sarah Palin is a fighter who will stand up to Harry Reid and his pals in the Senate to protect our Constitution in issues like amnesty, gun control and our nation’s crushing debt,” said the email from Todd Cefaratti of the Tea Party Leadership Fund.,0,4241519.story

nailingit — May 13, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

God morning Roger, sorry for late response.
Regarding practicing tolerance...
There's only so much tolerance I have for some folks who have not ever heard of tolerance themselves. Bachman falls under that. Her particular brand of what she refers to as politics , religion, faith leaves zero room for tolerance on her part.
Now why would I be tolerant of her when all she spews is intolerance and lies, together with sheer ignorance?

I do not experience the need to be tolerant of gaga-ness. By the way, gaga does not imply mental illness. Mental illness is a disease, gaga-ness is just...well, gaga, out there, ignorant, beyond reason. Once more, in German these four little letters imply a whole world

I am, however, always tolerant with all the basement dwellers.:)

Can't go to commish meet today, got to work instead. Good luck for those who make it, keep us posted.

luvithere — May 14, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I have in fact noted Hicks' claim that LTC Gibson says the team was on the flight line in Tripoli and ordered to stand down. The problem with Hicks is that once he got before the panel his testimony became very vague - and a Wash Post writer has since reported that Hicks' most recent version says this incident happened the morning after the attack. If true, then that changes everything; any reason to send a team in was (unfortunately) past.

You are correct about the numbers here - only about 10 lately - and the bias (at least in volume of posts; it's probably a little more balanced if you only count who posts). The forum tends to go with one or two main topics, and local events have dominated the conversation. To me this is quite refreshing - these are areas we can actually have some influence on. (I've noticed at least one of our members is planning on becoming even more actively involved.) Back before the November elections we ran the national scene into the ground - and I really doubt even one vote changed as a result of this.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There's gotta be a way to get the message across to STUPID POLITICIANS that we do not want to see Vancouver tied into Tri-Met and LOO-RAIL.

When I read that two states say that we (Clark County, Vancouver) have no say in the LOO-RAIL addition to the bridge I get mad as hell. Oregon has no right to dictate to us what we want or need on this side of the river. NONE, ZILCH, NADA, ZIP.

I wonder why in hell the IDIOTS in Olympia even have that much say on what crosses the bridge down here in Clark County.

To say WE WILL BE FORCED TO PAY FOR IT is not a way to get the public on board with LOO-RAIL.

As a side note has anyone counted WA plates at the park and ride lot in P-Town. OR plates don't count as they didn't come from Washington. Ha Ha Ha. They will become part of the traffic problem if the paring structures are built in downtown Vancouver.

JohnCasey — May 14, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning, Luvithere. Understood. I have a hard time accepting that people actually take Bachmann seriously; to me, she was somewhere behind ol' 9-9-9 in relevance. The one I considered somewhat dangerous was Santorum. Whatever - They're nonplayers - Little more than noise from the bleachers (which is where Palin also belongs). I suppose I could note that people like this would fade into obscurity if not for major news sources continually placing them in the limelight. I suppose from there we could discuss the rationale behind this. And I suppose Nails could fill in the rest of the discussion.

I'm not happy with the timing of the C-Tran meeting - By the time I get home from work it'll be too late to go there. From the Columbian article, it looks as though Tim Leavitt is going to try to say we have no right to vote on any portion of funding light rail - to include the O&M; payments that will come solely from us. I also suspect he's working with a couple of the others to try to get the C-Tran Board to hand their responsibility for this over to City of Vancouver. It will cost City residents more. If they get their way with this, I suspect a related move will be that after this November's elections City of Vancouver will revisit annexation of unincorporated east County - They'll need to build their taxing base to pay for things like this.

Things are going to get much uglier around here.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dammit, not enough coffee. 'paring' should 'parking'.

JohnCasey — May 14, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*They're nonplayers - Little more than noise from the bleachers (which is where Palin also belongs). I suppose I could note that people like this would fade into obscurity if not for major news sources continually placing them in the limelight.*

roger — May 14, 2013 at 6:42 a.m.

roger- You're letting personal opinion shade your reasoning.

Palin was dang near the Vice President of the United States. (non-player? Are we to consider the baggers obstructing in Congress as non-players also?)

Thank God the press brought Palin's idiocy to light. (as well as many others)

Ideologues like Palin thrive and survive when people marginalize them.

As far as influencing national v local. It's a wash.

nailingit — May 14, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, I disagree. I might be unable to influence nationally, but locally? You bet we can. We can put them on notice, we can influence them (well, maybe not Madore as he is on a mission from his deity).
We cannot all simply be silent and let them continue running a fiefdom. That goes for mayors, councils, etc.
or did I misunderstand what you were saying?

luvithere — May 14, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvit- I believe roger was talking about a basement voice influencing a voters mind. roger has commented before believing posting on FB can change minds more so than here. (basement)

There's no way to gauge it, but I suspect basement/FB voices have little bearing on how we vote, either locally of nationally. We can influence our elected at both levels of government with perseverance, especially at the ballot box, but by and large the old codgers (& codgerettes) who post have their minds made up. :)

Not sure how you derived some sort of inaction from my post, ("We cannot all simply be silent..") but it was not intended.

nailingit — May 14, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah understood. Sorry Nails, I did misunderstand you there for a moment. Yea, voices on FB and here probably change nobody's mind. We seem to be all very set in our thinking for sure :)

luvithere — May 14, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually, Luvithere is the correct one - I was addressing topic more than medium. At the time I made the facebook comment, we were talking national politics here, and almost no one was interested in the CRC or much of anything elese local. Just a lot of finger pointing, cite your sourcing, and similar conversation, was happening here. On facebook I felt I was able to influence some people to see the totality of the CRC and why I'm against it. Now - with the uproar over the County Comms - the topics here have shifted to local. People here are going to meetings, and getting involved in recall activities. We've added doing to talking. Whether I think the efforts will be successful is completely irrelevant; people being involved is important.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 14, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.

*Actually, Luvithere is the correct one* {Oh man...not another check mark!}

*On facebook I felt I was able to influence some people to see the totality of the CRC and why I'm against it. Now - with the uproar over the County Comms - the topics here have shifted to local.*

The CRC is local. Anyway, I think I understand, kinda.

*Whether I think the efforts will be successful is completely irrelevant; people being involved is important.*

Yes. As long as the reasons are just and the motivations positive.

Also there is the "live to fight another day" aspect. If unsuccessful, at least some sort of coalition has been built for a future election.

Then there's the social aspect.

So what's Deb been up to lately? :)

nailingit — May 14, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I’m afraid I don’t see the Basement as you do Roger. While I appreciate your efforts to expand the Basement’s reach, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. There’re have only been ten or so participants for a long time. A few more if you count those who pop in once a month, or two. If there were many followers here, I think there’d be many more who would jump in, especially when they saw something they strongly disagree with. FB does have quite a few newbies that jump in from time to time, and some of the local pols. Moeller, Leavitt, Madore, Burkman and a number of others who have ran for office. After the split, there were just a few left here.

I have to disagree with you’re thoughts on topics. While the CRC and the Madore issue have been getting a lot of attention, national issues have never been off the radar. We tend to not want to criticise those we identify with, and that was my point about the dearth of comments over certain issues. As far as Benghazi goes, there is the issue about what could have been done, but there is also the issue of changing stories as to what did happen and why, and if stories were dumbed down in order to enhance Obama’s reelection bid. Seem’s to me that’s what happened. And now there’s the problem of alleged government abuse at the IRS and the DOJ.

kn_dalai — May 14, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oil production down on north slope, Oil refinery output on west coast is only at 78%.. Why, Various said reasons... Tesoro is planning a west coast refinery for the shale oil comming from ND...Might be online in 2014.. I believe that when I see it... Read this blooberg report below..

vanwadreamer — May 14, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Should have been Bloomberg,

On the national sceen... How can it get any more Looney for the President. He tells Holder to find out who the Mole is in his cabinet so they go get some phone records from the Ap and now it's blowing up in his face..

On the IRS scandal, don't think for a moment it wasn't orchestrated from the White House...And on the Begazi Terroist attack... Does the word Stnewall, Lying, Miss Speaking ring a bell... This President is up to his arm pits in snakes... The only thing we haven't seen from this white house is the Pres Boinking some Intern.. Yet:)

vanwadreamer — May 14, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The recall group on facebook is closed to all except members, but their membership list is shown. Commissioner Stuart, is now a member. Nothing wrong with that, but I wondered if there are any precedents to that sort of thing. Seems a little strange to me that a commissioner would actively participate in a recall of another commissioner(s). Sounds like fireworks. And Roger, it seems that your Mike Briggs is now also on board. So maybe he’s had a change of heart. In Stuart’s case, he was “invited” by someone. In Briggs case, he was “added” by someone. So maybe someone can be added without their knowledge.

I suppose it’s also possible that one or both could also add input into the inadvisabilty of pursuing a recall. Since the comments are closed, I quess we won’t know for a while.

And Vanwa @10:52 a.m. -- :)

kn_dalai — May 14, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 14, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.

Alas, schmoozing up to Lance Sjogren. It's over before it ever started. Guess I'll have to go back to flirting with the 40ish cashier.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also from the same post -

We each make our own determination on whether the cause is just.

Depends on that "live to fight another day" - The consequences of losing that first battle may prove too much to recover from. Whatever the outcome, I'd say the 'Recall Madore' movement has gone too far to turn back.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Steve Stuart has been invited, but hasn't joined. Same holds for Craig Pridemore. Pridemore was the only person I saw/heard at that fire hall meeting that has the leadership ability to hold this movement together. All those others were 'rah rah' types or administrators (and one broken down old ex-mayor); they can get the crowd fired up, they can make duty rosters and flyers, etc, but I didn't hear anyone speak as a real leader except for Pridemore.

Mike Briggs has never met a Liberal cause he wouldn't support. I'm surprised he held out until today; I suspect he finally decided that even if the recall effort fails, he did his part to support it. But I will have to challenge him - He's always stated in the past that we elect people, and then have to defer to their judgment when they make decisions. Maybe I can convince him Tim Leavitt is no different than David Madore (doubtful - he'll rationalize his way out of it somehow).

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not sure this side is dying, but I have a pretty good guess why so many that were here in the beginning left. If you recall, we'd have an easy 700 posts in the main forum per week, and a few more in the topical forums. It quickly got to where when you check in you'd have to scroll past 30 or 40 comments from two people nit noiding each other, or two or three others screaming at each other, just to read something interesting. And then scroll a bit further (past more of the other stuff) to find a response. That's why we started those side forums, but I'm thinking the problem was we were already losing by the time we got Matt to start those side rooms.

I am a bit curious why we don't have a more active recruitment effort going. Some of us are also on facebook, and we could do a better job of trying to steer people here.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — May 14, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. and kn_dalai — May 14, 2013 at 1:12 p.m.

My money is on the First Lady.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.

It sounds like she gets around. Better off with the cashier. At least she's smart enough to deal with money.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:33 p.m.

I've made my recall downside feelings known in prior posts. Downsides a many.

As to your last post about Mike crossing over, you know how weakly principled us liberals are. Buy us a beer, good dinner & anything can be had.

Maybe Royce Rolled on him for a good meal!:)

[Mike B if you look in here all meant in jest]

I do wonder what caused him to change a seemingly principled stand.

(It'd take Surf & Turf for this ol' Lib to change his mind:)

nailingit — May 14, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 14, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.

Secondly, I did not see one single Clark County Employee testify either for and against Madore/Mielke's cronyism with the exception of the County Auditor Kimsey and that was about the fees, not cronyism.

*Really? If it was me, I'd be afraid of losing my job if I opened my mouth. Madore isn't above retaliation.*

hawkeye — May 14, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Went to the CCC meeting today. I was happy with David Madore's 180 on moving public comment to the end. One other guy and I gave him a quick applause (want to reinforce that behavior from him). Wish he would do another on Benton. Mielke was not as gracious and seemed to be blaming the folks he did not agree with.

Watching the C-Tran Board meeting tonight. So far, I think the folks that are pro-CRC/LR are making better presentations and arguments than those who are against. We'll see how the rest of the night goes. I am trying to be objective and the no folks just don't have any arguments that go beyond fear and emotion.

Just sayin'

manthou — May 14, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 14, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

Thanks for clarifying the difference between being added and invited. Tim Leavitt is listed as one who has been added. I’m starting to wonder if there is, after all, something wrong with elected officials being involved with recall efforts of their collegues; no matter what low opinion they may have of them. Something about that seems counterproductive, and a little smelly on it’s own. What with Leavitt and Madore being on opposite sides of the CRC/LRT thingy.

You seem to take a special interest in Mike Briggs. Did you know that he was once on the Washougal Planning Commission? Apparently, his appointment was controversial by the Washougal City Council, over perceived derogatory comments he had made of some others in political office, but was appointed in the end. He resigned 6 months later in order to pursue a writing career. That also ruffled some feathers.

Remember how Madore filed to run against Wolfe for Port Commissioner? Then had a face to face discussion with the incumbent, decided things were OK after all, and withdrew from that election? For which he was critcised by some for being a bit wishy washy.


PS, I'm also wondering why the Columbian has not printed anything on the DOJ obtaining the phone logs of AP reporters. No, I'm not suggesting any cover up:) It just seems that this is a big deal that should be reported on.

kn_dalai — May 14, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've met Mike Briggs at two different meetings. He's a nice enough guy in person (just like Debbie was a nice enough gal). He's also a Vietnam era Vet - served on a carrier, I believe. Maybe some disagree with me on this, but I've always felt being a Vet earns the right to be wrong on whatever you want. Lew Waters thinks I'm a Communist; Mike Briggs thinks I'm a neoCon Teabagger.

I go off on him regularly - his arguments are totally devoid of fact. He says the bridge will fall - I provide earthquake data and studies that say otherwise. He says Thanks for the good info, and then repeats his same argument a week or two later. He says how wonderful the Yellow line will be. I ask if he's really going to drive all the way to downtown Vancouver and then take a 40 minute ride to his classes at PSU, when if he continues his present habit of driving to Parkrose and taking the Red line there his trip will be 30-45 minutes faster. His response was that sometimes the I205 is crowded; it's good to have options. And so forth. He also likes to call the anti-CRC crowd names, but gets mad if we call him anything. (I was called on the carpet by Matt for making a literary reference to him being a sycophant for the CRC.)

There's a whole lot of strange stuff coming out. I'm still wondering about the IRS business, whether the FBI look will go anywhere, and also need to track a reference to there being a mole in the White House.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I went to the C-Tran meeting tonight.What I saw was a room filled with every union member in Clark County.I got there about 5:15 and there was not a seat to be had.When they started the comments it was pretty much taken over by the union people.It started with the union presidents then the secretary's then every member that was there.They all pretty much said the same thing.I know it was open comments but you would think that each union would have had one person to talk for their particular union.I would say they were pretty much 4 to 1.A lot of us left about 7:00 because it was taking so much time.It was warm but I don't think as warm as the fire hall.Lots of younger men all setting and not a 1 offered their seat to any of the older people.I guess I will wait to read what was decided if anything.There was 1 couple that spoke before I left and both had a handicap.They spoke against light rail.Identity Clark County had a big showing also.As far as I'm concerned they are no better than the M&M; boys.

timerick — May 14, 2013 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC and Hawkeye --

Fear of retribution is a possibility. Seeing this as same ol' stuff, different day, may also come into play. Another consideration is that County workers may not want to talk to anyone from The C - Editor Lou's only real supporter with wanting to kill their pensions is Madore; maybe they're afraid he'd dime them out. HolyC - Principles are an excellent thing to have - until you're in the unemployment line with a couple of hungry kids at home.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I started watching the speaker before Montague. Everything for the project was the same old discussion. Get the money now or it won't be there. My husband has been unemployed for a year and light rail will help him get a job. I'm a construction worker and we must have jobs. Some ditzy lady who rambled on about a one stoplight town and never really got anywhere. Opposed were a few old guys rambling on about things like driving to Minnesota and not seeing light rail anywhere on the way (I doubt he saw much of anything else either). The guy from Cascadia had good input. All in all, I really doubt anyone on the board heard anything they already haven't heard and digested before.

Having said this, I'm still listening to the panel of experts. They're also just repeating the same crap they've been selling for a few years.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This could get interesting - Jeff Hamm and Tim Leavitt are sounding desperate - They've got about a half hour to go, and there is some real opposition.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger are live streaming this on line?

timerick — May 14, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore made an excellent point. There is no bridge design - just a concept. They've cut all the road upgrades on the WA side and about $700 mil from the cost. Someone on the panel says WA will pick that up separately.

We're being told our only input is on LRT O&M;, yet if we don't pay it the project's collapse is our fault.

Bill whatever reiterates the Board's promise - take it to the voters. He also knows we bear the brunt of the cost.

There is no formal agreement with TriMet.

roger — May 14, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Roger it looks like it got pushed off till next next week.I'm no math genius but it looks like they are grappling for money that is not there.

timerick — May 14, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

How could we have gotten this far with out a formal agreement from Trimet? Are these people nuts.That Jeff Hamm from Ctran sounds like a used car salesmen.Buy this today as it is the deal of a lifetime.I say we need to find another dealership.

timerick — May 14, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, I ran across this 2009 Portland Mercury article discussing the Vancouver Mayoral election.

At that time, Leavitt's position was "Why should the residents of Clark County be burdened by the costs of basically an international project?" asked Leavitt, pointing out that freight traffic uses the bridge to cross state lines."

But a bit further on, we read that "Instead of a toll, Leavitt proposes cutting down the size of the bridge until it is "affordable" without tolls. When asked by the Mercury how a toll-less bridge would meet the environmental goal behind tolling—promoting carpooling and public transit—Leavitt replied, "If we pare down the scale of the project, it's going to be a de facto [traffic] bottleneck still. The point of tolls for many is to incentivize public transit, so if you reduce the scale of the bridge, the need for tolls for both environmental and financial purposes diminishes."

Mind you, Councilman Leavitt had already been heavily involved in various CRC meetings long before he ran for mayor. And now he's at the forefront of those saying build the damn thing and let the people of Clark County pay for it. This stinks - big time.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: So glad to know that you made it to the C-Tran meeting last night. I so wanted to go, but, after sitting 3 plus hours CCC meeting in the morning (no seats there, either), I was whipped and watched it on TV.

roger: did you go?

I am amazed at the stamina of David Madore. I do admire his advocacy and his ability to get (pay for) the research he needs to ask the questions on behalf of so many people. I wish he had done this in 2005, but, he is doing it now and his efforts, along with some well-positioned puppet buddies on the board, could kill this important project.

I was a little embarrassed for Washougal Council member Connie Jo Freeman. She is light on the intellect, but trying to do what she thinks her constituents want her to say. At one point, when the FTA rep used "unilateral" to her in trying to answer her question, she paused and made a guess as to what that word meant. She was off by a mile. When the FTA guy followed up, maybe mercifully so to giver her another opportunity, she simply sank back in her chair and did not answer.

Bart Hansen embarrassed her, too. In response to her complaining about how much she and others pay in federal taxes (don't we all: some more than others), he said something to the effect: Well, you still are gonna pay federal taxes on this project whether it is built in our community or in Honolulu.

This is what I mean about the opposition to the CRC/LR that night: with very few exceptions (a guy in a suit toward the end was fantastic), the arguments I heard against were like Connie Jo's: talking points and fear and misinformation. Some of that was on the other side, too, to be fair. David Madore is the captain of this opposition and he has the money, the stamina and brainpower to possibly succeed.

If Clark County cannot even bring a baseball team here, how are they going to help build this enormous project?

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

the bridge will probably get built, one way or another. There's a lot of money to be made here, and the major players are going to fight hard to get a couple billion of taxpayer's dollars thrown into their troughs. This is, after all, America Inc. As less and less taxpayer money becomes available for America Inc., the effort to get the money will increase. And we all know that social spending will be cut in order to keep the trough full as possible, you know, for the "job creators".

mrd — May 15, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*If Clark County cannot even bring a baseball team here, how are they going to help build this enormous project?*

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

A salient point. The same voices agin the Bears seem to be the same agin the CRC. Stop progress/spending at any cost. Bummer for Vancouver to let a small % of pop determine our future, especially when most naysayers will be dead in 15-20 years due to natural aging.

The Bears are now the 'Hillsboro Hops'. No doubt we could have come up with a better name.

But we'll never know.

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I might add that Hillsboro is just about done with the Hops' stadium, too. Batter up! I am researching Hillsboro politics. If it smells just a little bit better than Clark County (think better than a 3 day old corpse in the sun), I am seriously outta here. :)

mrd: I don't see how this bridge is going to get built. I share your cyncism on "job creators", though.

roger: I don't think Leavitt or Smith or Hansen looked desperate last night. They were pushing back, as I would expect. Poor Connie Jo looked desperate and floundering.

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"I was a little embarrassed for Washougal Council member Connie Jo Freeman. She is light on the intellect,..."

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

You peaked my interest so I Googled her. Connie Jo and David seem to sleep in the same bed when it comes to open prayer and limiting public comments. (We'll see if Dave holds true to his word about not pushing back public comments, so far his word isn't worth much.)

[I keep trying to stay away from local politics, but they keep pullin' me back in! :)]

**Washougal prayer issue is postponed**

*Councilwoman Connie Jo Freeman requests delay*

By Dawn Feldhaus
Tuesday, April 9, 2013

The issue of allowing prayer at Washougal City Council meetings involved public comments last night, but there was no council discussion.

Councilwoman Connie Jo Freeman, who has expressed support for allowing prayer at meetings, requested the issue be delayed until further notice.

Councilwoman Jennifer McDaniel pointed out that some of the audience members were at the meeting to talk about the prayer issue.

Jessie Vedanti, the priest at St. Anne’s Episcopal Church, in Washougal, spoke against the prospect of corporate prayer to begin City Council meetings.

“You are serving on this council for your wisdom, knowledge and abilities,” she said. “Where you draw your wisdom, knowledge and abilities from is not universal. It is not universal for those on this council or for Washougal, a community of 14,000 people who do not all believe the same thing.”

Melody Good, of Camas, said the council should “deal with city business, not religious ideologies.”

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Are the M&M; boys misstepping or is this just the way business will be from now on?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 15, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My God, if this is trending...

Say it ain't so Jo Jo!

**2 women, 2 children take a naked stroll**

The sight “blew my mind,” said resident Jill Mead, who was driving on Providence Road at the time.

**When police stopped the women, they said “the Lord told them to get naked and walk down the street,” Farley said.**

Read more here:

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou B @ 9:45 am: I think Plain and Peanut are misstepping and will eventually get themselves in legal trouble, saving Clark County's future promise.

They don't listen to advice given to them publicly (from Bill Barron, Chris Horne), so I doubt they are listening to good advice outside the eye of a video camera or audio recording.

Tom Mielke's response yesterday was of concern to me: he minimized, even ridiculed, the feedback he received from public comment. That kind of arrogance (ignorance?)will fail him eventually.

It is only a matter of time when one or both of these guys will be embroiled in a legal, ethical mess of their own doing. I hope the Columbian (you all got slapped around by some of Madore's lapdogs yesterday)continues to bird dog these turkeys.

Somehow, I think I don't need to ask this of you. :)

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail @9:06 am: Yep. Connie and David and BFFs. I suspect she was able to beat the incumbent in 2011 due to his generous largesse.

I still want to know who placed that Craig's list ad to reel in opposition candidates to local city council races.

Here's part of David Madore's danger: He is ubersmart and well-heeled (probably well-intentioned) leader of a group of wannabe and current politicians who aren't as smart and well-heeled. He gives them the tools that they never could have produced on their own. He has touched a nerve and it is working with the voters.

What can I say?

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola: David Madore is a genius puppet-master. He is successful at it. He hopes to seat many more of his like-minded politicos in future regional elections. Together as a group, they can either do major damage or become saviors, depending on one's point-of-view.

None of them (hey, not many of us) can hold a candle to his brilliance, nor his ability to control the message he wants the public to hear. His message appeals to a certain segment of the voting population, with the anti-LR, no-tolls one igniting the biggest spark.

It is a wonder to see.

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way, ADA law dictates that government meetings be sensitive to special accommodation needs and Stuart is just making sure it is in the public record that the offers were made. Those who accepted yesterday did not abuse that offer, in my opinion.

I think CCC might have had a complaint from a citizen with a traumatic brain injury about Tuesday's meeting: not responding to his request for special accommodation. His speech has been slowed and extended time is a reasonable accommodation, as in going to the front of the line.

Also, you noted that Stuart was using the gavel and trying to control the incredulous cries of the crowd during Jo W's surreal comments yesterday. He does not want to be accused of bias.

manthou — May 15, 2013 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi guys, beautiful day, huh? Was ANYTHING really accomplished at the CRC meeting yesterday? I still wonder how (or why) they even meet without knowing everything needed to continue. STILL, the Coast Guard hasn't given them the specs they need to continue, so how can they get a design or even have any idea how much it will cost? It boggles the mind.

Also, anybody heard from Lew Waters? I haven't seen him on the FB side for a while.

Hey Lou, you kick him off too? Pretty soon there won't be anybody left to comment.

hawkeye — May 15, 2013 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What people are you talking about??? *The people have caught on what the right wing/church marriage is all about. It is them and nobody else as extremist as the Taliban.*

So let me get this right Judas of Galilee is being compared 2 the commissioners and comparison of the Bible to citizen quotes, how? Ummm research dude, do ur research on past civilizations. How r they leading a *violent resistance to the census imposed for Roman tax purposes by Quirinius in Iudaea Province*? Come up w/somethin better than wikipedia holycrapola. u disappoint me.

Lay off the booze or weed dude or whatever it is you are doing, u don't speak 4 everyone.

Great job btw. u really stood up to the commissioners last week

andrecht — May 15, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, you asked about Lew Waters earlier. He cannot comment on the C, he is way too busy writing posts on his blog. And what posts they are...

I spent five minutes over there just for kicks a while ago. Was laughing quite hard. He is in total rant mode over this Benton thing. Interesting to see who comments on his site, quite expected naturally.

So for a good chuckle, go visit the site.

luvithere — May 15, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Sorry, Bud. If there's a zealot around, you're that person. You have defined the meaning of Rightness, and are embarked on your personal campaign to convert the masses.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian recently ran a poll on the CRC, and they subsequently defended the validity of the results. The widest, clearest result of all was that over 80% of the respondents said we should vote on light rail. Here's a great opportunity for the editorial staff to justify that poll - Call on the C-Tran Board to require any O&M; funding got to a vote of the people.

Our County Commissioners need to be unified in reaffirming their position of last summer - any funding option must go to a vote of the entire C-Tran support district. If need be, they should use their bloc veto power to stop any no vote option or attempt to hand the O&M; responsibility off to City of Vancouver.

Finally, please consider the ramifications of passing this without a vote. One proposal voiced last night was to use C-Tran funds being held in reserve. C-Tran will be coming to the people for additional funding in the future; there's a BRT route being planned right now. Is refusing to allow a vote of the people on the LRT O&M; worth risking the backlash of 'No to C-Tran' campaigns from a large part of the population for many years to come?

roger — May 15, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In other words - There's only one way to put all this to rest. Anything but a vote on this issue will leave a very divided and fractious County for many years to come.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere and Hawkeye,

Just got done checking Lew's site myself. Wow - He's having a good time with this Lazy C business. I scanned his articles back a week or so, and didn't see anything said about getting the boot. Maybe Luvit is correct; he's too busy writing and watching videos from County meetings. But don't be surprised if he isn't off doing something else, like hanging around Oly town waving the Repub banner during the opening of the special session.

He does have fun in one article noting that Jim Moeller has blocked him on his facebook account so he can't see Jim's comments. Mike Briggs tried that with me about a year ago. This isn't exactly helpful. People like Mike and Jim get talked back to a lot, so one can tell there's a comment they're missing. And there are also times the page says something like '1 more', but won't open. It's easy enough - just close out facebook and then go to The C - everyone's comments magically appear.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - Well, we got the word on the rise in gas prices today. Same as last time. Several plants on the West Coast are closed for routine and unscheduled maintenance. Seems to be turning into common practice. I guess Maria Cantwell will give them a couple more weeks to jack the prices up to around $4.50, and then threaten yet another investigation. They'll drop the price a few pennies, Cantwell's supporters will glorify her name, and everyone will be happy.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone else a little offended by a pic of a dog urinating on a girl sunbathing while visiting Lew's site? Calling something the P&P; boys...

(Just with us few looking in, I bet he's getting more hits today than in a long time)

The pic with the dog n' girl highlights how insensitive and demeaning conservatives can be towards women.

I've got a feeling there's some deeper issues going on. Anyway...

Classy Lew!

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 10:23 a.m.

The ladies could have claimed artistic expression and gotten away with it in Asheville, but they don't cotton to this silliness in Charlotte. Got standards to maintain.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, if this was about a year ago, there'd be several ladies jumping you about that last comment. Again, since they were already accusing you of same.

Actually, I thought it pretty funny. About a second or two later, there would have been one very upset lady planning on castrating that dog AND his owner.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- I consider the source. A dog peeing the face of a young bikini clad girl to make a non-existent point, well...

I think it would be okay with Pat, as long as the girl cleaned herself and the dog off after.

Then made dinner.

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess it all depends on whether she considers the dog handsome. I mean, it is a German Shepherd - not just a common mutt.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One word comes to mind.


nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let us pray for forgiveness.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, HolyC - We aren't invited.

roger — May 15, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I looked at Lew's "blog". Big mistake. I just had dinner and it's NOT wanting to stay down. I did enjoy the picture of Lew with his head in it's NATURAL position, though.

hawkeye — May 15, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've nothing to comment on the current conversation. I quit reading HC after the last time he (he?) wrote "the biker way." I only go back and scan when it's necessary to get the gist of another poster's comments relative to.

So, skipping HC's stuff...I find myself with a lot of time on my hands.

I thought I would speak (write?) to the MX's question about atheists.

I am an atheist. Not agnostic this that or the other. I am of a mind there are no "gods." None. Nada. Zip.

And, I can speak for no other atheist than this one.

So, when someone asks "what do atheists..." I'm taken aback just a bit. It hits me almost like grits, greens, and watermelon. Sort of like "the biker way" does. 'Cuz we all look alike, right?

There is no god. And I'm just fine with god.

I'd be glad to talk about the wonder of the universe; stars bearing stars, stars bearing planets, The immensity of it all. I question if we will ever really understand the way of it.

And I would speak of your god. I'm no biblical scholar, but I can speak (somewhat) intelligently to the subject.

But going in realize, we won't be changing one anothers' minds. Should the conversation take the tone of proselytizing then, in my opinion, it's lost. There would be no point in continuing.

I don't "believe" in Jesus. But Jesus is alright with me.

*Just one motorcycle enthusiast's er, I mean, atheist's view*

Now get off'a my lawn, kid.

Drift — May 15, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — May 15, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.

I'll bite.

I suppose I consider myself agnostic.

My belief, although without tangible evidence, is a deeper existence lies ahead, and how we manage this life will reflect in our continuance in the hereafter. (Man, I'm starting to sound like Pat! Shoot Me!)

I'm not down with the deity thing either. But rather a continuation of our 'spirit'. A melding with the Universe, with a piece of our existence to be carried on.

Does this fall within the parameters of Atheism? I don't believe in a single deity or creator to speak of. Rather a continuation of sorts, with a spiritual additive.

(Please don't tell me I'll never get my own starship command, with my First Officer possessing the spirit of my beloved cat. It'll blow everything...)

I do know, without a doubt, that intelligent life exists beyond this planet.

At the same time I understand intelligent life is lacking within this planet.

nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 15, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 15, 2013 at 7:10 p.m.

Here’s George Carlin:

Carlin spoke with about some of the financial aspects of his career, including living with constricting debt, the incredible productivity of George Carlin Inc. and his controversial decision, considering his strong anti-corporate views, to serve as a spokesman for MCI.

> Q: You surprised some people when you started doing ads for long-distance service. Considering your attitude toward business, was it perceived as hypocritical?
> A: I made an album in Las Vegas in the '60s, and a hippie friend said to me, "Man, you sold out." So I said, "wait a minute, what is that over there?" And he said, "It's a phone, man." I said, "That's Ma Bell. You're cooperating with them. You have one of their implements in your home. You sold out."
> B: At this point, how much are you bringing in a year?
> GC: About two and a half million a year.
> B: Are you heavily invested in the stock market?
> GC: Not heavily, no. Just around the edges. I have a little bit of real estate, and I'm beginning to accumulate some liquidity. I'm waiting for some more bottoms to show up on the indexes. I'm waiting to feel that out and see where everything goes in the next six to eight months.
> B: Would you own a tobacco stock?
> GC: No, I don't think I would do that. There's hardly any pure stock anymore given the kind of diversity these corporations have, but Philip Morris, probably not. I like the tech stuff, and they're having their problems now, that whole thing is redefining itself, I guess. I don't mind some of the others in the Dow and blue chip categories, and the old economy stocks.
> B: Does your anti-corporate perspective affect what stocks you will or won't buy?
> GC: Not really, no. I don't think it should, because I'm really outside of that. The amount of money that I would be putting there is minuscule within their own revenue flow. This is the system, and part of my protecting of myself. There's liquidity, there's real estate. I'm not conversant enough to reel them off, but there are all these places to put your money to protect yourself. I just look at it as one more strategy for coping with the real world.

kn_dalai — May 15, 2013 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gods are an attempt to answer what we observe but can't understand. There are too many similarities between the older religions which present a historical narrative - How can this be? "Educated" people laugh at the alien explanation, and refuse to consider that perhaps our gods are in fact our own race reaching a high level and then nearly destroyed by some sort of cataclysm. I don't know, and am not certain I'd want to know.

roger — May 16, 2013 at 5:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've enjoyed Carlin's commentary over the years, but also recognize his inconsistencies. He's written an autobiography that I scanned - He pretty much says life is a growth and learning process, and we have to change. I put the video up because of the point he was making - What we think is of little consequence; the big decisions are made by the people with the unlimited bank accounts who can buy our politicians. A cynical response, let's say. Benton, Madore and Mielke are interfering with the plans of some people who see themselves making big money if the CRC and the downtown redevelopment projects all go through. (And yes, they probably are tied in with different money.)

roger — May 16, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Went to the Arts of Clark County reception last night at the Rusty Grape. It was soul cleansing after spending so much time of late in the presence of our esteemed Clark County Commission. Met Temple Lentz finally and had an extensive conversation about all things Clark County. She is smart and connected and has good ideas. Her latest blog has more truth to it than satire.

I hope some brave Clark County employee(s) will eventually come forward. Some are passing along information anonymously to people they think can help, which won't go far. The complaints have to come from the victim for credibility. Given the spotlight on these bullies-disguised-as-commissioners, any complainant will likely fare much better than Kevin Gray did:

[link text][1]

roger: Benton, Mielke and Madore are doing a whole lot more than simply angering people who do not agree with their politics. I wish this issue were simply that kind of garden variety partisanship. This trio is abusive and dangerous and will, if they have not already, break a law or two. In the process, they are destroying morale and pride throughout county government.


manthou — May 16, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That may be part of a bigger picture. State and federal employees across the country are becoming quite disillusioned. Attacks on pension plans, 401(k)s that haven't made money, budget and personnel cuts and furloughs - yet we must continue to meet the mission, etc, etc. You sounded quite disillusioned with the way education was going a while back - didn't you retire because of it?

These guys are bad from a viewpoint. So are Tim Leavitt and Vancouver City Council from another one.

roger — May 16, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 16, 2013 at 6:34 a.m

Yes, but are "the floodgates open" yet? So far, not so much.

manthou, did Temple say anything about running for office?

hawkeye — May 16, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: She did mention that she would throw her hat in the ring if CC went to a Freeholder Home Rule charter. I guess the good gentlemen discussed this at a meeting yesterday. We both agreed that adding 2 commissioners is the easiest route to gain more voices there.

roger: Yes. I left early because we had a new, very weak administrator who was dismantling best-practices service through gross incompetence. There is a lot of that going around in government, as you note. I did not want my name attached to the organization any longer because it had become such an embarrassment and legal risk (do I promote poor policy at the expense of violating ethical professional rules?). As I predicted, the new administrator is going at the end of June 2013 due to multiple, fatal errors of his/her own doing.

I have such confidence that the same process will happen in Clark County, but it takes time for this self-incrimination to be revealed. I just hope some of the excellent support staff can endure. Bill Barron sure didn't and he will be missed. They won't realize it until they start goofing up royally without his counsel and even-keeled wisdom.

You asked about Leavitt and Vancouver City Council. I watch them all with a critical eye. I worry about what really draws people to politics. There has to be some sort of narcissism, some sort of ego stroke that feeds the desire. It is not simply wanting to serve the public.

manthou — May 16, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Refreshing change of subject.

How can journalists' protect themselves from the government? This Slate piece offers good advice, but also a deserved slap-on-the-wrist to journalists who never used to care about civil liberties until their own were threatened by the DOJ:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 16, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On the national front, House Republicans are using taxpayer time with another attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act-for the 37th time.

Maybe someday we'll get the opportunity to put David on Capital Hill. It seems as these anti-government voices have no problem picking up the paycheck working for the entity they denounce. (think Ron Paul) What a gravy train government is for those whose mission is to obstruct and destroy. Just show up-vote NO-go home, while laughing all the way to the bank.

**Bachmann fires up tea party to repeal Obamacare: ‘This issue is now revived!’**

nailingit — May 16, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Eric Holder = Puppett Master.. All he does is speak in circles, not tlaking points.. You know the kind that were asked of candidates on the campain trail and they took 10 minutes of blithering BS and didn't answer the question. He must have learned that from his "Almight" Pres Obama..
Obama comes out and says well the head of the IRS is stepping down to fall on the sword sort of speaking.. Geez, he was done in a month anyway... Like my "mammy" said if you tell the truth it's not hard to remember but tell a lie and then you get all these changed talking points.. This prseidency is just getting more fun to watch everyday... Our CC have nothing on this administration....

Another thing I noticed of the Comissioners meeting was most of the people who were there and spoke were retired, was that because the meeting was during the day? If that meeting was held lets say at 6pm would the age demo had been younger? And Royceboy, he was a charmer, thank our blessings he is no longer our mayor...Just saying...

vanwadreamer — May 16, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- I see your point. Thanks for the input! It is something that I have come across over the years and have always been curious about. I'm always trying to keep an open mind and sometimes when I ask a question, I just blurt out (or type) it out! What brought up my questioning was the meeting with the County Commissioners and the Prayer and someone rejecting the Prayer and going about it in a disrespectful manner. And the commissioners could have responded in a different way about it as well. I personally do not think it is right for people to try and change other people's beliefs on whether they are religious, agnostic, or atheists because that's how we chose to live our lives. I also think labels do not makes us who we are (guilty as charged). But I think it is topic for a good conversation. :) Before I moved out of Vancouver I was going to a Church that I thought was great but I was disgusted when they tried to change me to their ways and then told I needed to be saved because I decided to have a drink after a day of riding (Dirtbikes)and wanted to relax. Seems I have more questions than answers and will probably never figure them out because the Universe works in strange ways. I am a believer of God and I like sharing my beliefs but I also believe in science of how things come about. But I am not a scientologist. Do I question what's out there....hell yes I do!

Nalingit- I believe there is intelligent life forms in the Universe, but it's very true, not much on this planet anymore! And I can't wait to go see Star Trek! Hopefully it lives up to the first installment!

mxfun118 — May 16, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mxfun118 — May 16, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.

We all need saving, and I'm always searching for a soul. I have been perfecting the Vulcan Katra technic with regards to human applicability/sustainability, wishing to impart my essence into another vessel (not to sound like J. Swaggart perusing the local produce aisle) at death.

Salvation via denying yourself a drink? Easy to do if it's a Coors Lite but...

Star Trek Into Darkness getting great reviews by and large. Sounds like a quality continuation of a great franchise. Kirk-Spock & Doc played perfectly in the first one imo. I might have to take my better half to the Box Office this weekend.

Live Long & Prosper.

nailingit — May 16, 2013 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Republican lawmakers remind us daily how important it is to be governed at the Federal level.

**Kevin Cramer, North Dakota Congressman, Ties School Shootings To Abortion Legalization**

WASHINGTON -- Since mass shootings in places like Aurora and Newtown, lawmakers have been searching for answers for how to stop future massacres, examining issues like gun control and mental health. But in a speech this month, Rep. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.) pointed to different culprits: the legalization of abortion and a demise in religious values.


James Dobson, evangelical pundit and founder of Focus on the Family, made comments similar to Cramer's in December after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

"I mean millions of people have decided that God doesn't exist, or he's irrelevant to me and we have killed fifty-four million babies and the institution of marriage is right on the verge of a complete redefinition," he said, adding, "I think we have turned our back on the Scripture and on God Almighty and I think he has allowed judgment to fall upon us. I think that's what's going on."

In March, Cramer attracted attention for getting into a heated discussion with Native American victim assistance leaders during a conversation about the Violence Against Women Act. The congressman reportedly said he wanted to "ring the Tribal council’s neck and slam them against the wall." Cramer later apologized for his remarks.

nailingit — May 16, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***OK, some levity is call for***

The light turned yellow, just in front of him.
He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection.
The tailgating woman behind him was furious and honked her horn, screaming in frustration,
as she missed her chance to get through the intersection, dropping her cell phone and makeup.
As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up into the face of a very serious police officer.
The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up.
He took her to the police station where she was searched, fingerprinted, photographed, and placed in a holding cell.
After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the door.
She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal effects.
He said, ''I'm very sorry for this mistake.
You see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn,
flipping off the guy in front of you and cussing a blue streak at him.
I noticed the 'What Would Jesus Do?' bumper sticker,
the 'Choose Life' license plate holder,
the 'Follow Me To Sunday-School' bumper sticker,
and the chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk,
so naturally...I assumed you had stolen the car.''

hawkeye — May 16, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thats good hawkeye.I bet there is more than a little truth in that joke.

timerick — May 16, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, how did you find these pictures? By the way, he ran for office a couple years back I think. I might be mistaking him with a similar young man, though. I know there were some criminal charges involved somewhere. Again, I might mix them up though.

luvithere — May 16, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I just read through all the comments from the C-Tran board meeting from the 14th.I would have responded sooner but I have down with a bad case of kidney stones.I wish that you could sit down with mayor Tim and Moller and get the answers that you have asked for.You seem to be the only intelligent one that can make for a good argument.Although I think that fellow Steve Wiese is pretty good also.Please would you stand up and make your point at the next meeting.I know it would hard to do with only 3 minutes.You type out things you want said and I will read them with my 3 minutes.I bet we could get more of us to help out.Again thank you for all you do on this subject.

timerick — May 16, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah so I was right, same guy. Now staunch Lew supporter, right?


luvithere — May 16, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now Madore is going to be on the CREDC BOARD!

We are all doomed! I tell ya, doomed!

hawkeye — May 16, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luv and HC

Cory ran for some kind of Republican district rep. He didn't win. He's a huge Madore fan and is friends with Christian Berrigan. He calls himself a "constitutional conservative". I call him a whack job.

hawkeye — May 16, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sitting Madore on that board was a bone. They needed to get together again to get the money to the organization. I am sure Madore thinks he can convince everyone at CRDC to stampede against CRC.
This should be so much fun to watch. Shortly he will join the Humane Society Board also, must keep those super high salaries at that shelter from spiraling up.

Fun fun fun, when the inmates run the asylum.

luvithere — May 16, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Audio of yesterday's commission meeting was a gem. I think they should be serialized like The Sopranos and sold to HBO.

Don Benton gets to fill 4 new DES positions right off the bat. I can't wait.

Steve Stuart asked Madore and Mielke to come up with some job performance benchmarks so Benton can be evaluated in terms of his success in the job. Neither could come up with anything concrete, so Stuart gave them some time.

Madore tries to wear down attorney Chris Horne about legal issues. Truly a wonder to hear.

Stuart slaps Madore about two incidents where he cornered staff to alter or discuss county business, breaking open meetings law. You can't be doing that, he warns.

A Madore constituent (who might be a CC employee) seems to have filed a complaint with Bronson Potter (atty) and the Lt. Governor of WA, with respect to something. Mielke wants to know if it is a personnel matter to be discussed in exec. session. Potter says no.

2 hours of pure entertainment.

Your tax dollars at work.

manthou — May 16, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice summary Manthou. Reads like a soap. Stay tuned for the next episode.

luvithere — May 16, 2013 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I like how agendas drive issues - the environment vs. fuel/power is an example.

One of the arguments against allowing Tesoro to locate a facility to transfer crude oil from rail to ship here is the potential for seepage fouling the river and affecting the fish. So now we're arguing about this, and get to read articles about efforts to be taken to avoid the problem.

Meanwhile - The wind farms are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of birds, to include many protected species. Oil companies have been prosecuted by the feds for these deaths, yet the wind farm industry is getting off scot free.

One of the initial push backs against locating the BPA power lines in the national forest was the effect this would have on the ecosystem there (never mind the logging that already happens).

Is it time to go shoot a sea lion for eating salmon?

roger — May 17, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

22 military suicides a day. 22 and on the rise. What can we do to stem this unacceptable tide?

[link text][1]


manthou — May 17, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift,the 2nd link was much easier for a lay person to read and understand.I have several friends that came home from Viet Nam about the same time as I did.It was the the early 70's.Most of us that served in combat did not seam to have a problem that we noticed.I suppose that we all did to some extent, we just didn't know it at the time.At that time the V.A. was not doing anything.I have heard that they are more proactive now.And a couple of friends are now starting to get treated although I don't think with a cannabis treatment.It will be interesting to see what the government does with this information.Thanks for the link

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Though folks normally associate PTSD with combat troops, many more people who've never been in the service suffer from it. There are battered women, abused children, even folks who've been in car, plane crashes, etc.

The eCB system is the most prevalent in human biology. Heck, the biology of all animals. It was only recently uncovered while Mechoulam was investigated phytocannabinoids.

I think some really interesting "stuff" will come from the ongoing research.

Drift — May 17, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

wowzers hc @ 6:40 am

that coming from king paranoid zealot of bottom of the outhouse stirrer? dude you really need to get out more, take in a deep breath, basements have a way of doing that to some.

get your facts straight, I've met goldenoldie and she is far from what you spout. the lady goes to more county/city meetings than you'll ever know. just cause she stays anonymous on here doesn't mean she is anonymous at the meetings. she has spoken several times at meetings, you just don't have a clue. at least she speaks at the meetings she goes too, unlike you,
stir the pot by telling others you'll be there and what you have to say will change cc forever, you know so much about the dealing of the city hall etc etc etc, yet you never spoke up. were you even there at the meeting? I say you stayed home and watched on tv or via your computer. by the way just WHERE ARE THE PICTURES from the meeting at? you did say you'd take pictures and post them, so where are they?

goldenoldie posted on a blog, so what dude, she has every right to do so and state her opinion just like you do.
oh but wait, she doesn't agree with you 100%, 100% of the time.
so she is ebber bad. daaaaa dude get a frakking life.

jasonb — May 17, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc,I to have been to several C-Tran meetings and listened to Goldenoldie speak.For the last several years she has been involved in much more than C-Tran.I think it is fine to disagree with someone who may not think like you do.But I also think it needs to be done with respect to the other person's belief.Just because you think you are right does not make it so.Disagreeing with someone is fine belittling that person is not.Throwing out slurs towards the person does nothing for your argument.In fact it make you look like a small person that people will ignore.

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift I sent that link to my son.He is writing a paper on the effects of war on Drone Pilots.Also there is a good write about Drone Pilots on MSN today.Very interesting stuff.

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc,I am not into double standards.What is good and fair for one is the same for all.I don't ask for pictures or sources.I take what you say as your thoughts and opinion.I'm fine with that.Principles are what belong to you.We may or may not have the same principles.I am also fine with that.To each their own.I do think you are wrong on the C-Tran thing,because I feel that is what got Madore going in the first place.C-Tran and the light rail are kind of what started this in the first place.I think with out it he would have been content to stay in Washougal.Then we would only have to deal with the corrupted ones we already had.As far as being in diguise,arn't we all on this forum?

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Drift — May 17, 2013 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycarpola, don't know that jasonb is a troll, more likely a relative of goldenoldie. Her drones and clones come in many flavors: buttercup, urabus, mxfun118, beams my way3, sokpop, goldens_minions, and many more. I created soapbox4u for goldie chat a couple of years ago for the some of the same reason you have noted today.

soapbox4u — May 17, 2013 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger there is a very good article in the Vancouver Business Journal today.It concerns Thompson Metat Fab and the CRC.May 17th vol.20 issue 20.

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc,not to stick up for Lew.I have met him a couple times at different Veterans functions.You get him away from any politics and he is a nice guy to talk to.I do think his politics can get a little extreme at times but I have a brother that is the same way.To both their credit they practice what they preach.When in a den with Lions it is good to know where they are comming from.Also my brother is a polar opposite of Lew so I kind of get from both sides as I tend to be more middle.

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not sure why you're complaining about Goldie badmouthing The Columbian - I sort of recall an Alleycat getting kicked off for making some very derogatory comments about The C, and Editor Lou in particular. Did you have to agree to become a company man to get back on?

Goldie has been a long time on again/off again poster on Lew's web page - I believe most of us here know this. And we also know of your long running feud. (Of course, she's had those with a few people, so....)

What really gets my attention is your comment - "GoldenOldie betrayed her home which was here." Really? A few of us also post on the facebook side - should we be banished too? What about if we comment on OregonLive or Willamette Week? I've got a Wash Post account & have been known to weigh in there - I must be a real dirtbag!

Geez - I'm finding myself agreeing with JasonB - Wow.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and timerick: There is a 4 part series on Cross Cut (my favorite middle-of-the-road information source for all things Washington) on Transportation issues in this state.

I have not had time to read it all, but am moving through it. I learned some things from an entire state perspective.

I got the sense, just gut-level stuff, that there is a surprise plan that will be pulled out of a magic hat if C-Tran does not agree to partner with Tri-Met on the LR issue. Anyone else get that from the meeting last Tuesday night?

Cross Cut: [link text][1]


manthou — May 17, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hc, I have nothing at all to prove to you or anyone!

I will not stoop low and give you goldenoldies name or a description of her. not my place to do so. besides I don't want a law suit my way by giving you someone else's id out without
their permission, and I do not have her permission to do so. if she wants you to know her id don't you think she would have told you by now?

all I can say at this time is that she is a very nice lady, over 40 and under 60.

if goldenoldie wants to post on every blog and newspapers from here to ny, she has every right by law to do so.

so hc outing someone's id is totally different than some of the claims you have made.
like what roger has posted, all those claims about having proof how corrupted city hall is, yet not a soul has seen your proof.
you think by trying to turn the table around on others people will forget all the crapola you have spouted on here. not gonna happen dude uuuunah. so if you have all this proof then by all means share it with the people, but nope you don't have, never will have just nothing but a bag of hot air.

jasonb — May 17, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou,I would suppose that if we had as many connectors here as up north than I could see tolling I-5.But for the most part all we have is I-5 and 205.If they were to set a express toll lane on I-5 across the bridge where would it start?And then what to do about north bound from Portland?I would not have as much of a problem with paying a toll that was up to the drivers discretion if he wanted to use that lane.But I don't see how something like that could work down here.As far as last Tuesday I do think that Tri-Met was kind of threatening us.I don't think they can win by intimadation.I think we need a bridge just not this one.The powers that be want Jack Daniels on a Beer budget.And Clark county to pay the Lions share.

timerick — May 17, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It was only a matter of time.

**Allen West lands a gig at Fox News**

nailingit — May 17, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I will regret drawing attention to this garbage, but, I will, nonetheless, and then scoot outta here.

Lew Waters (with someone's encouragement,I would bet my life on it), has taken on us Basement folk today.

Nailingit, holyc, have had their posts cut-and-pasted and ridiculed. Commenters are piling on (guess who?).

Enjoy and ignore. Puhleeze. Look at Lew's post and get it out of your systems. Fast. :)

We had a great conversation flying around here last week and now it risks deteriorating into middle school squabbling, for the most part.

I give up.

[link text][1]


manthou — May 17, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, I have had a couple of respectful e-conversations with Lew myself. We agree on a couple of critical issues.

I always thought his blog promoted a mature exchange of ideas, no matter what the difference.

Who helped pollute it?

manthou — May 17, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**[***Of course, doctored photo’s of conservatives as monkeys, vampires, being hung or beheaded is never considered offensive to this person.*

To be honest, I don't recall posting any beheading or hanging avatars. I do have one of Dubya as a bloodsucker, as well as a monkey with Glenn Beck's head attached.

The one with Beck could be considered complimentary, and the one with Bush, well,......

If posting pics of young girls having their faces squatted on and urinated on by a canine floats your boat than more power to you. (the women who post to your site seem to encourage it) Some get a kick out from it and think it's funny. Even in here! Personally, I think it's a little over the top and different than a funny political pic, and find it in poor taste. But that's me...

I bet the same folks who appreciate this would really go over the top gaga with a dog *crapping* on a young girls face! Especially if they're liberal! Can't wait. And after that......

Great idea for Dave's billboards next election!

Like I said, Classy!**]**


Man, some of you guys are rabid posters! Personally, I can't imagine giving any more time away. I've thought for awhile some who post or used to post here head out to a site that compliments their way of thinking. It's all good and nothing wrong with it. Except it reenforces partisanship and critical thinking gets deluded. But again, it's all good.

Except in Novembers.

nailingit — May 17, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Nails, you nailed it. I read Lew's page once in a blue moon for laughs. He actually used to make good points, I am somewhat with him on LtR, and the CRC, but he has become just too awful. Name calling the minute you slightly disagree, demonizing the other side, and now vulgar pictures. Oh well, he attracts the like-Minded, and that's how it typically goes. I did not even read Manthou's link, not worth spending two minutes over there. It's too sad.

Sadly, it is also a very good demonstration of how we have managed to become so partisan that we can't meet in the middle or solve anything.

It's also probably true if you take the topics away, these folks will be quite pleasant. I am convinced Lew in real life is a very pleasant coot. I am also convinced Holy C is quite nice in person :). Nails is probably a saintly person. Ok, that might be pushing it.

I have not met Goldie, I do not know her, we have disagreed here many times, but we have managed to stay civil and struck up a number of private, very good chats. I have always found her to be very decent and compassionate. The cellar and the net get the best of us at times.

Now I will reward myself tonight, as a very long-term Trekkie, and will go to the late show to watch the newest. Quite looking forward to it. Tomorrow I fly out for biz to LA. A little change from our weather, back to old haunts (and probably missing the greens and the grey sky within a day).

luvithere — May 17, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I do want to make one correction. Goldie said I was hitting on Debbie Peterson. I was just flirting with her a little. She's a lady, and I try to be a gentleman (sometimes, anyhow); hitting on her would have been much to bold a move.

Oh well - I guess this will give something to talk about for a bit.

Manthou - "We had a great conversation flying around here last week and now it risks deteriorating into middle school squabbling, for the most part." --- I think we've been heading that way for a while.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Geez - Libtards and Paulbots. I'm a bit conflicted as to which one I want to be.

I want to know which one of you is Jim Moeller. And I am a bit peeved with Lew - He cuts/pastes Jim blasting me (and a couple of others), but neglects adding my clever comeback that I zing old Jim with. What - does he think he's the only one who can engage in a bit of repartee with the mighty ones?

I wonder whether Editor Lou will have anything to say? Or maybe John can get a column out of this - the Hounds having a run in with the basement undesirables.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My, my. Calling the C The Lazy C. Guess everyone has been asleep at the wheel - except for Andrea. We got to hear all about how Oregon Iron Works is close to reaching a mitigation deal with the CRC - Andrea took the time to speak with the other two companies, and they aren't anywhere near close. Jason Pond is the Greenberry CEO --- "Pond also says that CRC supporters are saying things that “just aren’t accurate” about the mitigation talks as they try to convince Washington Republicans to chip in $450 million to build it. Pond says any claims made about talks going well are “180 degrees from the truth.”

And even better, today we've been threatened by the Federal Highway Administration - If we don't build that bridge this year, they want "their" money back. "To date, $187.5 million in federal money has been obligated by both states ($108.5 million in Oregon and $79 million in Washington) to the project, of which $113 million has been spent."

I'll tell you what. We can give the $79 million back and be much better off. But just for that bit of arrogance (freakin' Feds think taxpayer money BELONGS to them!!!), we (WA State) need to turn around and send them a bill for what we spend maintaining their interstate highways. And then arrest every one of the people they send to try to toll the roads.

(Hmmm... Is that something a Paulbot would say? Both of our resident Libertarians don't get all radical and crazy like that, so I'm not sure. But I can't be a Libtard; they love the Feds. Maybe Lew just forgot my category????)

That last is a set up for you, Nails.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Or we could forget about Lew and ignore him. My answer to him bashing us (with egging on, I agree) is this:

We could talk national news

Or who is a better Scottie. Old one or new one?

luvithere — May 17, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Learn to pay attention to others; it'll go a long ways toward improving the quality of the conversation. No idea about in your circle, but in my crowd we don't hit on women we've just met. (Now, once upon a time in some bars a few countries south of the border - but those women would have been offended if they didn't get the attention. "Mi amor, mi amor, I love you! Twenty dollar?")

Actually, I think Debbie is about the same age as most of the crowd in here.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd swear Portland is trying to become a Third World city, where bicycles are the primary mode of transportation.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I like the old Scottie. Beam me up. :) Let us know how the movie was. I just can't fight the crowds tonight.

roger: What do you think about Bill Turlay's last minute run against Leavitt? We actually have a real race now.

manthou — May 17, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I am so careful driving in Portlandia. Recently, I was parked with my driver's side door against the bike lane near SE Grand. I swear, I sat there for 3 or 4 minutes, waiting for all the bicyclists to pass at rush hour so I could open my door. I was terrified of taking one of them out.

Good for them for supporting 2 wheeled transportation (and doggies, by the way). Just not the choice I make for safe transportation. I prefer my feet. :)

manthou — May 17, 2013 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I was in love with Scottie back then, I swear. He was my fave.

I do like the new Kirk, he has Shatner's Kirk swagger down pat.

Just a Trekkie, always have been, but not a fan of NG version. Loved Janeway on Voyager and was envious of 7of9. But who wasn't.

Roger, I would never ride a bike in that city. I think I would get run over the first time. There's a place for everything. But not me on a bike there. They are taking it a bit far.
What a checkered youth you had.

luvithere — May 17, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I saw the blurb - To be honest, I don't know much about Bill Turlay. I know he's a conservative and is opposed to the CRC - beyond that????

I saw Jeannie Stewart has filed per The C, but someone noted in the comments they didn't see her name on whatever the register is. That was a few hours ago - Haven't been back to see if there's an update.

It ought to get mighty interesting between now and election time.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I hate driving through downtown Portland. It's bad enough trying to figure what lanes you can drive in - On top of that you've got the cyclists barreling through the streets and cutting in front of cars like they think they're invincible. And then we have two groups of people going in different directions in life who both seem to have a death wish. Between the homeless crowd around 2nd and Burnside, and the students up around PSU, both seem to think it's perfectly normal to walk out in front of moving cars. They're lucky they're a protected species here; back in Philly the streets would be littered with their bodies.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - Let's just say the Army I was in back in the day isn't the same as now - They had to clean us up and teach us manners once they decided to let women play. Remember the Secret Service scandal last year? Those girls plied their trade all over South and Central America. That guy should have gotten in trouble - you don't stiff the working girls. (He's lucky he didn't get a knife stuck in him.) As for the rest of the moral outrage that ensued, well....

roger — May 17, 2013 at 8:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, my husband was a young grunt when I met him. Needless to say, he had no chance of any behavior I did not approve of. I do remember some of these young guys, first time away from Mom, in dire need of learning fundamental manners. I do have a few stories but they are not fit for a family newspaper, lol.

luvithere — May 17, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - I was never an active participant; I was married when I joined and momma made it clear she wouldn't like me sampling the local wares. (When Lorena Bobbitt hit the news several years later, I asked if she knew her.) Panama, Colombia, Honduras - you're right - those stories can't be repeated here.

roger — May 17, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just heard another joke.....

Is it just me or are circles pointless?

*OK, I thought it was funny.*

hawkeye — May 17, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The title of the book (my current avatar) speaks for itself. ;^)

Drift — May 18, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I appreciate the jokes, even if I see them, like today, hours later. :) We need more laughter here.

With that, here's my buzz kill: Lou B is spot-on for Press Talk today. I am one of the people who was not fooled by Madore's back pedaling on citizen comment placement in the agenda, but I reinforced him immediately (thanked him and gave him a quick applause), hoping that he might start getting in the habit of changing his mind. Kibble treats for not pulling on the leash so much. Good boy.

His arguing with CC's attorneys ad nauseam is the most dangerous flaw to me. They keep telling him, "It's not legal." He keeps at them, nonetheless, hoping to break them down. What he is going to break, if not already, is a law or two.

Madore made campaign promises. But government processes and rules and laws, by God, are getting in his way. His FB tells his happy supporters that May 28 is the day that CC will be free of impact fees. No dice. He has to run this by the Planning Commission and then give the public 10 days notice for comment, so May 28th is now in June. He promised lifeguards at Klineline Park, even though the attorneys say it increases county liability and Stuart says, If this is about public safety, it would serve the county better to hire a new sheriff deputy with the same money.

The public is on M and M like their coated candy shell.

I eagerly await a fellow Republican politician to answer Lou B's call for a supportive comment or two. The silence is deafening, indeed.

manthou — May 18, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning Manthou, we are up way too early on a Saturday morning.

Read Lou's article. Finally using whole sentences there, good job Lou! And spot on! I am also waiting to hear the defense speaking. Manthou, so far, Madore' s campaign promises focus on anything but the floodgates of jobs, you noticed? Small mind focusing on small things, while ensuring county is even deeper in hole.

Also recommend you go see StarTrek. We went to Cinetopia near 117th and not crowded at all. So comfy, pleasant staff, no crowds, and cheaper than Regal. We even splurged and went for 3D. Good movie, with many references to original series (spot the one referring to nurse Chapel). Main story has a big surprise waiting for you also, with familiar names and a complete switch on an old story line. New Spock IS old Spock, Kirk very very Kirk-ish. A big recommendation for this one. I really enjoyed myself. Have to see it again in a couple weeks as hubby could not go last night. A sacrifice I will willingly make.

luvithere — May 18, 2013 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

madore financially supported Turlay & Wentzel for city council posts. So Vancouver residents now have an alternative to Leavit, sad to say, it's worse. Another M&M; (madore minion)

mrd — May 18, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I fully agree that Madore and Mielke need to be watched closely. We also need to keep a very close eye on what Leavitt and his allies on City Council and in the community are up to. Leavitt especially has proven that he will also resort to any tactics to get what he wants. That skepticism needs to be applied to all - not just those we disagree with - especially when there is big money involved, like with the CRC and the downtown redevelopment projects.

roger — May 18, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hillary Clinton will be 70 when she takes office if elected in 2016 (and she is currently the Dem front runner in many polls.)

Ted Kennedy was last elected to the Senate at age 74, and served until age 77.

John McCain is still serving as a Senator in his late 70s.

Bob Dole is still going strong advocating for various health care programs for veterans and people with disabilities - and he's almost 90.

But I found some youngsters - Michelle Bachmann is 56, Eric Cantor is 50, Sarah Palin is 49 and Paul Ryan is 43.

So HolyC - Let's DQ someone based on age and get those fresh young ideas into office.

roger — May 18, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: OK. You did it. I am going to have to go to the movies soon. Love these sequel/prequels on old, reliable favorites!

roger: Oh, yes. Leavitt and the City Council are not exempt from vigilant citizen oversight. It does not do well to be blindly partisan with any politician. We need to dig, observe, dig, question and question deeper. Let them know we are watching. Why people are so willing to hand over their "checks and balances" power based on blind political affiliation is beyond me.

It is so striking to me that anti LR/No Tolls advocates never cease their scrutiny of local politics (they should not), yet are vociferous critics of those who are bird-dogging M and M now. Double standard. Citizen oversight is essential to keeping our government open and ethical.

manthou — May 18, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, There are many who speak out against the CRC who've also expressed displeasure with the M&M; Benton fiasco - Lance S, Jeff G, (Tim?) Erickson, Mike B, and some squirrel that wears a hat, to name a few.

One could also direct your observation the other way - There are many in that Recall Madore movement who blindly support the CRC, with no concern for the accuracy of the information being presented to the public or for the way state law is being ignored (the RCW does say we in the C-Tran district should vote both on the financing and the system plans - WSDOT is pushing this doesn't apply because they're involved).

roger — May 18, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC,do you really know who these crooks are? We see what is happening with the county.But lets look at the City.Identity Clark County pulls most of the strings in the city.Also the Fort Vancouver Trust.Take a look at who is on the boards.The water front development group.Eli Kasab,The list gos on and on and runs very deep.I don't think that you could ever flush them all out.This town and county is run and has been run by these old money people forever.And something else to think about.We are allowed to post here courtesy of the Columbian.Do you really think they don't know who we are?

timerick — May 18, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Hillary Clinton will be 70 when she takes office if elected in 2016.*

roger — May 18, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.


Just sayin'.

nailingit — May 18, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou/luvit- I'm taking the better half to the Trek Matinee today.

Live Long & Prosper.

nailingit — May 18, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - I stand corrected. She'll turn 70 in October of the year she takes office (2017). Plenty young enough for the job!!!

roger — May 18, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger did you read the article I told you about in the Vancouver Business Journal?

timerick — May 18, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One thing I would like to make clear.I do not support what Madore and Mielke did to bring Benton in.I don't care for Benton and never have.I think he is a bumbeling fool.Also I am against the CRC in its current form.New bridge yes,just not this one.Light rail no not now and especialy not where they have it.But you can correct me if I am wrong.Right now those of us that oppose the CRC need Madore.He has the voice and the money to provide needed help.From what I know we do have a silent supporter in the Hidden Bros.But so far they have been very quiet.

timerick — May 18, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Something from the Seattle Times - Seems a few business associations are upset with the tolling plan for the Hwy 99 tunnel, due to expected diversion to city streets. And those tolls will be low compared to the I5 bridge ones.

roger — May 18, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey soapbox, don't forget Vista, Palmer, Fiscaltiger, Fiscoltiger, Crazytrain, Collegial Fool, noworries, Moe, Curly, Mel, Abbott, Costello, Peter, Lois, Bankster, Billy O, Meg, Brian, Coitis, flatulence, just to name a few. Never "ASS-ume" HAHA LMAO
So Lew Waters explored to this forum area. Did you not think that maybe he decided to click on another spot on the Columbian other than screwin with the editor? Oh my goodness CALL THE COPS! It's the end of the world! Heck he can make fun of me for all I care. I'm open game! Just think if that's how you sound to someone, wonder how you sound to the rest of the world!

mxfun118 — May 18, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick -

A few interesting things in that article on the CRC and Thompson.

I'd like to see the mitigation for Oregon Iron Works, who (per the article) won't have the same bridge height restrictions. I'm not sure what this means - that shipping their products is rarely affected by bridge height is all I can come up with.

Thompson's attorney sounds a lot less optimistic than the CEO. And that CEO wasn't sounding as positive in the WW article either. I'm guessing the CRC is playing the eliminate who they can get out easiest approach - reduce the numbers for press purposes. Thompson is saying their agreement won't be so easy to reach, and that the CRC isn't making any sort of effort worth noting.

I'd like to see Thompson get something in writing from the oil company doing the North Shore drilling that says they are looking at ordering as many as five drilling rigs from them over the next 5 years - That's a billion in potential income that would have to be mitigated.

I'd also like to see where they might be located if mitigation included putting them in the Port. They need space, rail and waterfront. I can think of one location with a large enough footprint - the old Alcoa site. But I don't know that the current rail upgrades can be modified to extend that far. Darn.

roger — May 18, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - The Hidden Bros? The ones who just bought a building, or someone else? (I'm still curious about that deal.)

roger — May 18, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The Hidden Bros just SOLD the Academy, I believe, to the Ft. Vancouver Historical Trust.

[link text][1]


manthou — May 18, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I have been to 2 meetings where 1 of the brothers was there.In fact it was held in 1 of their vacant buildings.They have supplied alot of the printed material that has come out.Intresting thing this morning.I did a job for the editor of the Vancouver Business Journal.I asked him about the article.He is trying to stay neutral but I got a feeling he leans more to our side.But he has papers to sell.I to would like to see the mitigation figures.It should be made public I would think soon.You are right about Thompson if they can provide proof of any contracts or any kind of deal it could be a back breaker.As far as the old Alcoa site I heard that the port had that sewed up for something?

timerick — May 18, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou the trust is trying to raise the money now.I don't think it is a done deal.

timerick — May 18, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody else get the latest email from "The Jamie"? Seriously, she went to Afghanistan? Why? Because the government paid for it and she needed MORE vacation time? Stupid!

Also something about a "forest roads bill" where she says it affects over 110,000 workers.

"Over the past two years I have been working with a bipartisan group of House and Senate Members to protect forest roads from harmful regulations that threaten thousands of jobs in Southwest Washington.

On Thursday I introduced a strengthened "forest roads" bill that protects our jobs and our forests by reaffirming the Environmental Protection Agency’s 37-year-old policy toward regulation of runoff from forest roads"

***So THAT'S what she's been doing!***

hawkeye — May 18, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There seem to be a lot of Trek fans here. You’ve probably all seen Qalaxy Quest (1999) long ago, but if not, you may want to check it out. A great spoof. One of the best ever.

kn_dalai — May 18, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Her's something else to worry about, HC,14385/

roger — May 18, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — May 18, 2013 at 6:33 p.m.

***Never Give Up, Never Surrender!***

HC, that guy is seriously deranged.

hawkeye — May 18, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And we CANNOT tolerate this deviant behavior!,32182/?playlist=onion-special-report

Newcastle Brown, I'm tellin' you, it can sure smack you down

roger — May 18, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Too bad Steve Marriott couldn't stay away from the drugs - Humble Pie should have been rated up there with Zeppelin as the best of the second wave Brit groups.

roger — May 18, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 18, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.

Yes that is sick. Reminds me of Jesse Jackson wanting to castrate Obama back in 2008. Even Jesse Jackson Jr. distanced himself from his father over that one. You know, the one who’s going to jail pretty soon for fleecing his campaign contributors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Oh, and his wife too.

I’d pull up some video on that wacko Mike Malloy who wants to see all Republicans dead, but I’ve already done that before. What’s the use.

kn_dalai — May 18, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*if we didn't already have corruption and influence-buying there wouldn't be any attraction to the madore et al candidate type. remember, he was elected for the same reason leavitt was: a vote against. in the former's case, we actually got what we voted for. as the scorpion said, "you knew when you picked me up what i was."*

*of the two opposing forces, county commissioner activities vs. light rail supporters, i'll take the uneducated outsider fulfilling voter demands over the paid-for politicians any day.*
**DeeLittle — May 12, 2013 at 7:51 a.m.**

*Regardless of principle Delittle? Of honesty, due process, open job so the best available apply, equal opportunity laws?*

*You are out of your mind and aiding corruption! Not me, I draw the line!*
**holycrapola — May 12, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.**

and you're living in a self-induced alternate reality if you think the choice is between good and evil.

**it's between bad and worse** has been for ever.

i would GLADLY put up with a bumbling first-timer who (GOD FORBID!!!!) says what he means and does what he says than some slick, smooth talking SNAKE who's out for **himself** and the will of the people be **damned.**

this is the real world, hc. there IS no voting against 'corruption'. *you vote for least bad choice you can find and pray to God for help.

DeeLittle — May 19, 2013 at 12:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK - I give up - Join the crowd. When I want to find something to get worked up over, it's off to the Huff Post. HolyC, you and your little hipster friends down in P'Town are (once again) responsible for making things rougher on the working man. You need to hop on that scooter, head over to Washougal to pick Mike B up, and the two of you can head downtown and cruise all your hangouts to pass the word - STOP drinking PBR!!! Look, if you guys want to drink something cheap that tastes recycled, we've got a perfectly good Northwest option in Rainier. But you really need to tell those snotty pogues to knock it off and go back to drinking the overpriced microbrews - leave the cheap beer for the working man.

roger — May 19, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

SPJ Region 10 Awards last night: Congratulations, Columbian staff for the 26 you earned. Andrea Damewood won for her work there AND the WW.

Seattle Times fell to third place (first place last year) behind The Oregonian and The Spokesman Review. Did the publisher's purchase of all those spendy and conflict-of-interest McKenna ads contribute to its fall?

manthou — May 19, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ran into John Wiesman and Ted Broussard last night at a local restaurant yesterday and had a nice chat. John is the former Clark County Director of Public Health who was tapped by Gov. Inslee for the state job. He is President of the national organization. John is an extraordinary and competent administrator (very client-centered) and will be greatly missed (along with Bill Barron and Kevin Gray and .........)

After I congratulated him and bemoaned our loss/the state's gain, I asked him: "Please tell me that Madore and Mielke have not tapped the likes of (fill-in-the-crony-blank) for your important position."

He opined no and seemed confident of it.

Surely they have learned from the Benton firestorm?

By the way, I met someone whose car was egged at the recall meeting last Saturday. He told me that several cars were. No local news about it.

manthou — May 19, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC -

Jogging is a waste of time - run or race walk. I'm not sure what you're calling jogging, but if the pace is slow enough that you don't hit your second wind in the first mile then you really aren't accomplishing much over that 3-4 miles you cover. Unless your main purpose is to sniff daisies (what I call clearing the head), that is.

If your pace is about 8 min/mile or slower, might I suggest one of the racewalking alternatives - power or speed walking. You'll get about the same cardio benefit with much less pounding on the joints. (I suggest you study technique a bit, though - you can knock several minutes per mile off by walking correctly. I went from being a 15 per in my first PTC to a 10 per in a year's time by learning about heel to toe, step alignment and proper length of stride.)

But if you insist on running, then add some fartlek work. Sprint from phone pole to phone pole! Get that heart pounding and lungs sucking air! And then lengthen that sprint to about 200 meters - watch your run times improve drastically!

And don't forget the breathing control - might I suggest a good cadence song? Kept me knocking out the miles in my younger days.

roger — May 19, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou - The recall meeting at the fire hall? Strange - I was parked at the top of the path to the back lot & had to wait a bit to get out - I didn't see any vehicles going past that were egged. Maybe later after almost everyone left?

roger — May 19, 2013 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: We got there very early and our car was parked near the entrance. This fellow is a regular citizen like you and I who was drawn to the CCC meetings and the recall like most of us: combination of curiosity and education and a need to watch over our elected clowns.

I ran into him at Tuesday morning's CCC meeting and he told me. He shrugged his shoulders about it and said that it was not many cars and that he was able to clean it off quickly. He came early, too: he was standing in your area: the tallest guy in the room. I don't know where he parked.

No way of knowing who or why. Most likely opportunistic neighborhood kids. We had our house egged recently, as several neighbors. No rhyme or reason: an equal opportunity prank. :)

manthou — May 19, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Egging is a lost art - throwing them to break and dry on something is amateurish. I was taught the proper way to egg by an old retired school teacher in Arlington VA when I lived there in the mid 60s. This was when the Civil Rights movement had their Resurrection City at the Reflecting Pool in early '68. I was out finishing delivering my Post route, and met up with my brother and friend on my way home. We saw these guys in brown uniforms walking the streets putting flyers on cars. A closer look turned up the Boat Ticket Back To Africa and Coon Lagoon stuff we'd heard about. The old retired elementary school teacher who lived in our neighborhood was out for her early a.m. walk and came up - told us this stuff was filth, etc. OK - No problem with that (we knew better than to argue with her anyhow). This lady knew we were rowdies (what they used to call borderline hooligans) and she proceeded to put our talents to work. George Lincoln Rockwell, American Nazi Party, had been killed a year earlier. Those guys passing out the flyers were his group. They were holding a commemorative rally at the little strip mall laundromat where he was shot a couple of miles down Wilson Blvd in a couple of weeks - to remember Rockwell and to rail about the N----s. She gave us a couple of dozen eggs - she said they were old and said put them in the sun - had to speed up the spoiling process. When they were having their little get together, we went hauling past on our bikes and tossed the eggs into the lot where they were. We went back about a half hour later and the place still stunk - and the brown shirt guys were gone.

And that is the proper way to egg. (A few years later I wondered how that old lady knew this, but....)

roger — May 19, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Reminds me of the trick cops used of tossing balls of yummy peanut butter into the Occupy Wall Street camps in NYC: it attracted hoards of rats.

manthou — May 19, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Greetings from sunny southern cal. I miss the green as predicted. I miss the insane local yokels. :)

luvithere — May 19, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone know whether Richard Carson, Director of Clark County Community Development from '99 to '07, has an axe to grind? He ripped Liz Hovde for her "day late dollar short" article yesterday in The Oregonian, so I looked him up. He's got an impressive resume, but I also see he's a favorite of Victoria Taft (conservative radio host and Lew Waters' friend in Portland). He claims this cronyism has been bad for some time - that it's one of the things that led him to resign.

roger — May 19, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was asking about this guy - I couldn't care less about Liz Hovde.

Richard Carson says Benton was a horrible choice for the job, and is on the recall bandwagon for M&M.; At the same time, he says concerning leaving his job in 2007 as Director of Community development "I left because of escalating political cronyism, development industry influence-peddling and just plain incompetent elected officials."

2007 was before either Mielke or Madore.

So - as has been maintained by others - Is what M&M; did just more business as usual? If so, that was a Democratic Board most of the time Dist 1 was Betty Sue Morris (listed as Indep), Dist 2 Judt Stanton (D) 2000-2004, Marcus Boldt (R) 2004-2008, Dist 3 Pridemore (D) to 2004 and Stuart (listed as Indep) to now.

roger — May 19, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum Login