Open forum, May 20-26



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Sometimes another approach is better. Perhaps a little of what we used to call street theater? Abby H might have gotten a group and chanted the following during prayer time.

roger — May 20, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sad, pathetic, disgusting..

ELISI — May 20, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Though the Lazy C Dungeon is mentioned collectively as a group, and Goldie mentions a couple of us as being reasonable types, Goldie and old Lew have a bead on just one person.

"Of course there are, Goldie. Not everybody is a blind ideologue like Crapola, who seems to feel that is their private domain to rule."

"I got a kick out of crapola’s rant today regarding your “defection,” or is it “treason?”

"Somebody is quite delusional it seems"

"Goldie, latest I saw is crapola indicating all is forgiven with you, just as soon as you realize the error of your ways, LOL"

"I guess it feels the Dungeon is its private domain?"

I suppose Editor Lou is finding this amusing - the two most vocal groups of outcasts from the local mainstream are throwing rocks at each other.

roger — May 20, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sit back, relax and enjoy the show. And don't forget .... when in doubt, blame the messenger! ;-)

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 20, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now I know why I chose an alternative career path in journalism school at Ernie Pyle Hall all those many years ago...... I really prefer to fly under the radar.

Thanks to an attention-whore, it looks like we all are in good company with the "Lazy C" now, regardless of where we earn a living.....Personality disorders plus the First Amendment: explosive mix.

It was good while it lasted here....

manthou — May 20, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - without the attention-whore, it will even be better!

soapbox4u — May 20, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Unfortunately she won't stay away. The clones and drones will start to appear....

soapbox4u — May 20, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u: It's like Ground Hog Day. I swear this would happen from beyond the grave. :)

Ya' gotta admire the manipulative skill set that contributed to this. Must be a job out there somewhere for it.

manthou — May 20, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When a journalist's sources lie and the reporter refuses to take responsibility for inadequate fact-checking: The Jon Karl Benghazi email debacle.

Why do other reporters circle the wagons, rather than encouraging their colleague to be accountable? (SPJ ethical rule: accountability) It reflects poorly on the entire organization.

Someone explain it to me, please.

Just to change the subject:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 20, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***well HC, how do you like your I-pad now?***

Apple Avoided Billions in Taxes,Congressional Panel Says

Even as Apple became the nation’s most profitable technology company, it avoided billions in taxes in the United States and around the world through a web of subsidiaries so complex it spanned continents and surprised experts, a Congressional investigation has found.

Some of these subsidiaries had no employees and were largely run by top officials from the company’s headquarters in Cupertino, Calif., according to Congressional investigators. But by officially locating them in places like Ireland, Apple was able to, in effect, make them stateless – exempt from taxes, record-keeping laws and the need for the subsidiaries to even file tax returns anywhere in the world.

In 2011, for example, one subsidiary paid Ireland just one-twentieth of 1 percent in taxes on $22 billion on pretax earnings from various operations; another did not file a corporate tax return anywhere and has paid almost nothing on $30 billion in profits since 2009.

hawkeye — May 20, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye it looks like my buddy Jim Moeller is in 7th heaven with having 2 companys ready to mitigate their business for the bridge.Do you suppose they will mitigate mine?I hope so then after 47 years here I can retire.

timerick — May 20, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, all: You have seen that Gov Inslee vetoed the CRC portion of the transportation bill today because he felt it was a waste of money to spend on more planning when there is nothing there for building.

Any thoughts on his strategy? He just has to have something up his sleeve. What is it?

manthou — May 20, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

More explanation here from Rachel LaCorte, AP reporter (published in the Seattle Times):

**Inslee said that the veto of the funding money for the Columbia River Crossing shouldn't "be taken at all that we can't move forward."
"It would be foolish to turn down $850 million in federal money when they recognize we're going to end up paying more for this project if we don't do it this year," Inslee said. "Washington taxpayers will have to shell out more tax dollars to deal with this bridge if we don't take this option that is available to us today."**

manthou — May 20, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Simple strategies. Oregon's bill is contingent on WA State coughing up our $450 mil. The Senate version calls that play - they said no $450 mil for the current project, but we'll cough up some good money to continue moving to an agreeable settlement. (It also provides the funding if the Feds get stupid and follow through with the threat to take "their" money back; our share was $70 mil.) Inslee deleting this part is a hard ball approach to try to force approval of the new gas tax and funding for several projects - to include the CRC - in the Trans bill. When the Senate continues to say No to the CRC, the pro-CRC contingent can scream the Repubs killed the project. The Senate needs to hold fast - There's enough money to be made with a compromise project (Seattle steel mills, for example) that Patty Murray will help it get back in the funding queue. And Jaime isn't exactly powerless either; her local business supporters will push her if beneficial.

roger — May 20, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - I don't know your business, but from the way you talk you're not one of the insiders (ICC). If your store is in a good location, I suspect someone who is an insider will be hoping times get hard enough that you'll sell for pennies.

A shop could possibly survive the CRC construction (unless where the track will run) due to continued access from Fourth Plain and down Columbia. But they're also planning on starting the Waterfront project in the next year or two - That's two major projects going on simultaneously, which doesn't sound very good for any business downtown. I'd like to see the Farmers Market move east; I can't see that operation surviving the construction years.

Mitigation doesn't sound completely out of the question - maybe you should come up with some estimated loss figures and get your neighbors to do likewise. I figure there are enough of you who will be affected by this - and once they set a precedent paying off the big companies - who knows where a good lawyer could take this?

roger — May 20, 2013 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Are you sure you aren't Sam Adams? That idea of making the new I5 bridge a monument of some sort was one of his hair brained schemes. Understand that this new "slab of ugly cement" is going to cost in excess of $6 billion payback money - almost entirely paid through tolling. We can't afford this, much less another billion or so for a fancy bridge.

My operation is getting force relocated by GSA into that new Edith Green building, so I'll join my federal coworkers nationwide and ride public transportation to work - paid for by the taxpayer. But I think I'll ride a C-Tran Express bus - much more comfortable all the time, and much faster most of the time. I'm one of the lucky ones who has an alternative to paying as much as $2000 per year in tolls. I figure I can stomach that for a few years until retiring.

roger — May 20, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger my shop is less than a half block from the tracks that will run north on Broadway.I depend on getting cars and trucks plus all the deliveries we get into my shop.Some of deliveries are with 40 foot trucks,at least once a week.We also run 2 service trucks sometimes 3.This is a everyday thing for us.I have 3 employees with a payroll of over 250k a year.We have been in business since 1952,in the same location since 1965.I went to work there in 1966 and except for a few years in the Army I have been there since.I do own the building with my partners widow.2 of my son's work with me.My dream was to have them take over.If this light rail goes through it may stop all that.The construction alone will be bad enough.Then there will be the train crossing,from what I have heard at least 12 to 24 times a day.This on the main truck route to the port.I can see the semi's backed up to I-5.

timerick — May 20, 2013 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at those mitigation meetings. The CRC is really good at making promises that you and I will have to pay for. I see mitigation as a form of bribery. I think they will re-locate like HC has said on a few occasions. Then that part of the city will become a super-fund site for a few years. Then the city will sell it cheap so some developer can come in and make a killing with all the tax breaks they will get. All this time will take money out of our pockets for the show.

Meanwhile Jay and Co. are trying to hold the public down here hostage with his attitude that if there is no LOO-RAIL then there will be no bridge!! Well hell Oregon just did it. I guess that is how you play the game. 'Waa, sniff, waa. sniff, waa, sniff, I'll just take my ball and go home if you don't play by MY rules'.

If the Coast Guard say no then drop LOO-RAIL and redesign for the proper height needed. There, that wasn't so hard now was it?? Geeze, an he's our Gov?? What an IDIOT !!!!

To say that it can't be done without LOO-RAIL is the most idiotic thing I think I've heard come out of his mouth in a long time. Whoops, my bad. He still wants to raise money the old fashion way. Screw the public and raise the price of gas AND raise service fees. Tax us more AND spend more than you tax. Now there is a novelty.

JohnCasey — May 21, 2013 at 5:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

When a project uses our taxes to mitigate a compromise then I feel we, the public, have a right to know how much was promised. To do it any other way is criminal. NON-DISCLOSURE MY ASS!!!

And Mr. Jim Moeller you are a piece of work. You spout off about how it will bring this and that to the area but yet the ONLY way to finance it is through higher taxes and higher fees. Why don't you channel your energy's to let us know how much these mitigation's are really going to cost us? Or is that just too much to ask??

I mean it will add to the cost of this boondoggle overall. If it is more than a billion then we won't like it. Hell if it's over a dollar we still won't like. If you flash dollar signs if front of those companies, and they take it, then what does that say about how those companies are run. In the short term they will like it. They will move their ops somewhere else and pocket the public money, laughing all the way to the bank. Their employees won's see a dime. Remember these companies are privately owned.

JohnCasey — May 21, 2013 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Your challenge to John Casey. THE WA State Senate has heard loud and clear. Same with Jaime and a few others who control funding for these projects at the federal level.

Your comments suggest other options. Care to spell them out?

roger — May 21, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Uncertain times in so many ways.

timerick: I understand your concern about LR construction when you have service trucks needing to get back and forth over the Columbia. Arnada Naturals, a little shop that used to be on Broadway, moved to Main recently because they were going to be losing all their customer street parking to LR tracks. You cannot do that: you own the building and your operation is so much bigger and more complicated. No wonder you are worried: your life's work is in the balance.

Wallis Engineering, in the old Lucky Lager building, is tapped for demolition because The Hilton does not want a 2 story parking structure ruining its views. So the CRC agreed to increase the footprint of the parking down, rather than up, killing this historic building that the Wallis family restored for their business. They are fighting that. You might want to chat with Gillian Wallis, who shows up at a lot of the City Council meetings. You might already have. Find out who her lawyer is. A consultation is usually free.

manthou — May 21, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou B and staff: Gov Inslee signed the Uniform Corrections Act yesterday, too, but it got lost in the shuffle. It takes effect July 28. It will change how you respond to corrections requests/demands. I think it stinks. The only entity that benefits from this? The publisher. Who loses? Front line reporters (who may be strong-armed into hasty corrections by their editor/managers) and defamed citizens (who cannot recover true damage to reputation). This, plus Anti-Slapp, has killed defamation suits in this state. Only North Dakota was rash enough to pass such a bill. What good company we keep.

Speaking of the Press, I am deeply disturbed by the DOJ investigation into James Rosen of Fox News. The DOJ is over-reaching again (what is with the Holder administration?) and now going after reporters doing their investigative jobs. This issue has unified persons of all political stripes. The DOJ claims they have "probable cause" to charge Rosen with serious crimes.

Google James Rosen and the DOJ. This is something we all should worry about.

What a fine line we balance between Freedom of the Press (DOJ is trying to muzzle that) and citizen protection of false and defamatory journalism.

Responsible journalists don't defame. But.......there are a few who do.

manthou — May 21, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What tips the scale?

I mean, do you give journalists carte blanche even when their actions can result in the loss of innocent lives?

What of "state secrets?" Where's the line between investigative reporting and treason?

Hmmm, are some of Temple Lentz posts defamatory? Is she even considered a jounalist? Does her standing (as one or t'other)have any consideration in the matter?

I'm not arguing, manthou...just musing.

Drift — May 21, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou when I first came to work here in 1966 15 th st. stopped at D st.Then after I returned home from the service in the 70's the city paved 15th.We thought at that time it would kill us but we managed to survive.Then came the Mill Plain extention to the port with 15th being the main truck route.We lost all on street parking.Thanks to George Propstra from Bugerville we did get some of our parking back.George was on the parking commission at that time.It seems to be one hurdle after another.We are worjing on a plan to keep operating.I don't know that I will long enough to see it but hopefully my son's will.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Believe me, I have asked myself those questions, too. That is why it is a fine line as I mention in a previous post.

The crux of the issue, for me, is this: journalists are just about the ONLY group of professionals who do not answer to a licensing board or governing body. They are supposed to be good self-policemen and women. To regulate them is an assault on the First Amendment so, for the public good, they promise to regulate themselves.

Problem: a few journalists are irresponsible and take advantage of this freedom. If you or I are the victim of this, we have little recourse because the Press is eliminating their ombudsmen and women and states are adopting anti-slapp laws (and this crazy Uniform Corrections act).

The bar for defamation is high. Public figures, like Temple's targets, have a great deal of difficulty proving defamation.

I am no lawyer and this topic is way beyond my training and expertise. There have been court decisions that have determined that bloggers are journalists and are protected by the same laws as journalists. Some courts have decided otherwise.

I do know that, if I had laced my professional reports with some of the "lies of omission" and obfuscation I see in some journalists' work, I would risk losing my professional license. The First Amendment is very protective of just about anything and responsible journalists don't abuse that.

The majority of journalists do good work and the public relies on them to shine a light on government abuses. The few bad apples who don't follow SPJ ethics are tarnishing the entire profession. Their colleagues should shun them and run them out on a rail. it is criminal, in my view, to be handed such freedom and then take advantage of it.

As for Holder's DOJ: they have a bad habit of overstepping their boundaries and bullying, in my opinion. They are very powerful and abuse it. Just anecdotal evidence from my limited knowledge base, but my opinion, nonetheless. :) Think Jason Swarz.

manthou — May 21, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Aaron Swarz. Sorry. RIP:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 21, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Good for you for hanging in and fighting for the posterity of your good business. Everything is so uncertain and we work hard so that our children can carry it on. We do the same in our small business.

As much as I gripe about Vancouver, I am so heartened by the way folks work together to draw attention to an issue, whatever it is. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But the failures don't act as a deterrent and that tells me a lot about strength and resiliency.

I don't think I would find the same commitment to community advocacy elsewhere. I have been looking for places to relocate and have come up short so far. :)

manthou — May 21, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your right Manthou.Vancouver and Clark County is a wonderful place to live.I have been in many countrys and many parts of the United States.I feel we have it the best here.Besides I was born and raised here.My mother taught school here for 34 years and my father owned a fish market on 8th st. for several years.There are good people here.We may differ on some things but that is what makes us interesting.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lunch time here. I'm not ignoring this topic you and Manthou are talking about - To me, it's a hell of a lot more relevant to the real world than some of the silliness filling the air waves here.

There's a lot of stuff on City of Vancouver's web page that I haven't checked for a while. There's a section with maps - maybe in a 2030 plan or somewhere - that shows their projected zoning for different sections of the downtown area, and I'd like to refresh my memory before speaking. Seems a lot of the area below 8th Street is targeted for high rise office buildings, but as you go further north they plan on allowing for more like whats there now.

There has got to be some sort of planning to get businesses resupplied and to allow customers to get to them. (Editor Lou would raise a real stink if he couldn't get to Starbucks.) I'd be more concerned about the elimination of on street free parking - there are places I'll shop now (like the unfinished furniture store further up Main) that I'd never consider going to if I couldn't park by it. And sorry - any trip to Farmers Market also goes away. I'll walk a block or two to my truck carrying a few bags of produce, but I'm sure as hell not going to ride the bus with that stuff. (And Gresham's market is getting better than our's anyhow.)

roger — May 21, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I thought you would get a kick out of this video.
Thank our blessings we don't have a senator from our state like this guy....What is it with the democrats that want to blame everything on rep... Thats the problem, everyone wants to blame everyone else. We need to elct people based on solutions and not promises...

vanwadreamer — May 21, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I suppose that anything below 8th st. the city wants to tie in with the waterfront development.I do believe they think that it can look and be like the Pearl in Portland.They might be right but I have a different feeling about it than they do.To me there is to much industry and trucking down there.It is not far from Metro Metals and the cannery.And you still have the railroad to deal with.Upper main st.has developed into their own.The lady that owns Old Glory is a good friend and she has been there for years.Her business has never been as good as it is now.Also Troy who owns the Tip Top is a good customer and he does quite well.But all the on street parking is free on upper main.We don't go to the saturday market very often.Ever since I bought the green house my wife grows and cans most of what we need.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I realize that proposed bridge across the river is a LOT BIGGER project, but:

When the Highway Dept. released their plans for the St. Johns overpass (at 500) it initially stated the intention to simply shut St. Johns down at the work site until the work was completed.

The businesses just to the South of the bridge raised holy hell. They banded together and informed the Hwy. Dept. (whatever dept. it is) that plan would ruin them. They said many of their customers crossed there to reach their establishments.

The Dept. went back and took another look at their plan. That second look resulted in a revision where the interchange would not be shutdown. If I recall correctly the financial impact was near zero.

Something to consider?

And Vanwa: I find the Senators rant disingenuous at best. And I really do mean "at best."

Not to get into the whole climate change thing (anthro or otherwise), but it's called "tornado alley" for a reason. Hurricanes raking the Easter Seaboard is not something new.

Manipulating calamity in an effort to forward a political agenda? That gags me.

Have you done the same, Vanwa?

Dood's an idiot. Color him with any crayon you care to. An idiot is an idiot is idiot by any other party affiliation would stink as foul.

Drift — May 21, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift you are right the business's did band together and with WDOT and the contractor solved the problem.I was involved with that as I am on the executive board of American Legion Post 14.And that original design would have hurt our members access to the post.This bridge thing is different in that the CRC and WDOT and ODOT won't budge.We can't get any of them to listen or help.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc I own a service business and run 2 to 3 service trucks everyday.We also have in shop service where we have anywhere from 3 to 6 vehicles a day for repair.Also we get deliveries every day some with 40 ft trucks.I need to have access in and out.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually we service both sides of the river.Most of our daily deliveries come across the I-5 bridge.Most of our service work on the Oregon side we use 205.I am just guessing now but I look for our surcharges to go from a current cost of 7 percent of invoice to 10 or 12.Of course this will all depend on what the tolls will be.Downtown Vancouver is our base and has been since 1952 but we do go north to Woodland and east to Stevenson.Our in shop customers come from all over,alot from North Portland and Hayden Island because we are closer than some shops in Portland.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is some interesting data and information..

1920 Plam sunday Tornado kills over 350... The counting of tornadoes has changed dramatically over the years so really pre 1950 numbers are hard to find... Of the 10 deadliest tornadoes only one in the last 60 years and thats with increased science and population density....

vanwadreamer — May 21, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Food for thought :)
1. Where there's a will, I want to be in it.
2. The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.
3. Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
4. If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
5. We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.
6. War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
7. Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
8. To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
9. I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
10. In filling out an application, where it says, 'In case of emergency, Notify:' I put 'DOCTOR'.
11. Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head
and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy. (ever been to WALMART)
12. You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
13. I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.
14. To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.
15. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
16. You're never too old to learn something stupid.
17. I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

hawkeye — May 21, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - There will be a lot of problems with that area Gramor is developing - I'm surprised they've bought into it. It would be nice to know how much is actually their investment, and how much is coming from Columbia Waterfront LLC, other unnamed sources, and us.

That was an interesting interview Editor Lou had with Ann Rivers. If you listened, you couldn't have missed the train going past blowing its horn. Those tracks are next to and parallel the project - I suppose the apartments next to them will be the low rent ones that'll help qualify for low income housing funding builder subsidies.

I just love when those passenger liners fly almost over Esther Short Park - All conversation ceases for a couple of moments. And for those who are concerned about these things, ever wonder what they're spewing into the air and odwn on the people below? Hmmm... Those planes are a little south of the park - like over where this project will be built.

There's the bridge itself - Over 100 feet up in the air, with ramps shooting off in all directions for LRT, SR14, Mill Plain, Hayden Island, etc - People in the Waterfront area won't see Mount Hood - Their horizon will be sucked up by the bridge. And when people discover we still have traffic backing up - they won't fix many of the bigger hold ups and you can't stop accidents - well, I wonder how much further those pollutants from the nasty cars will spread from 100 feet up?

And there's my favorite argument - the big earthquake that we're all in a bother over. Remember how the current bridge will go down because of the depth of the soil before you get to solid bedrock? Well, that shoreline isn't exactly solid either. USGS maps color the area below the tracks Red - at a high risk for soil liquifaction. I wonder if they can design buildings to withstand the ground shifting, massive sinkholes, and flooding?

roger — May 21, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger it hasn't worked to well in California.If I remember they lost most of their overpass's several years ago.And they were better equipped to handle those things.Holyc, thanks I have gone through tough spots before and got through.I will manage to get through this also.Roger I went to the C-Tran meeting just now.I left after about 30 minutes.Same old same old.Same people same everything.I did fill out a comment form for the good it will do but at least I felt like I did something.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift and Timerick,

The St Johns interchange was to help that area by getting rid of the long waits for light changes due to SR500 traffic, and to hopefully reduce the number of accidents from people screaming around that I5 off ramp bend at freeway plus speeds and running dead on into a red light. So, it would have been reasonable for WSDOT to listen when approached by groups like Timerick's.

The CRC isn't to help those in the downtown. It's to help the home builders - eliminate the bridge lifts and maybe get some people off the road, and they can continue developing out in the Fair grounds area and beyond. It's to help Portland by putting the parking garages for public transportation on this side of the river - and maybe pick up a few thousand more riders for their highly underutilized Yellow line (the lowest ridership by far of the four lines). It's to help the people who want to hang out in Portland - shopping, sporting events, or just getting weird - but who don't like dealing with the crazies walking and biking the streets. And most of all, it's to help the same vision that has led us to the Fair grounds amphitheater, the Hilton Convention Center, the City owned parking garage, and who knows what else - except this time instead of a few millions, we're gambling billions - something to be very concerned about given our record of losing hands to date.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - I think I've got a pretty good guess on your business. Are you a GSA approved vendor, by any chance?

roger — May 21, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I forgot about the C-Tran meeting. It's streaming on 23.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Roger we are approved for GSA work.Although we are not a national company and they seem to get the bulk of the work.We do quite a bit for Bonneville Power but that work goes through Service Auto Part which is a NAPA store.We also do work for Pacific Power Products which they also do some Bonneville work.

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - Calif builds for a different type of quake - one that comes from down deep and involves a relatively narrow area (e.g. San Andreas). A large quake from this type is in the 6's. They tend to last several seconds for the initial impact, and are often followed by smaller aftershocks. The engineering for these quakes has been used since the 70s. The shock absorber foundations to buildings and bridges is a common approach.

The Cascadia Subduction Zone quakes are a different beast. They originate from a relatively shallow depth, but can cover a very wide area. The shock waves run more laterally rather than vertically, and can last several minutes in duration. They are also much higher magnitude. Any engineering for these quakes is still experimental. Tests with some sort of underground angular barrier to cut the wave (similar to the bow of a ship) look positive, but use in a city is unclear. There's a website with bridge design options - no model that's been tested has withstood over 8.0. And none of these models have more than one level, have light rail, or have all the ramps tied to the sides of it like this one does. Bottom line with this project is that to say any bridge design will make us any safer is wishful thinking.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow!!! Bill Ganley actually read RCW 81.104.30 and understands it says the HCT needs to go to a vote.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow again!! Madore took the gloves off with this latest motion - he's going after Leavitt for conflict of interest.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, it looks like no C-Tran decision until August at the earliest, and a possible vote (again) in November, as concerns our LRT O&M; financing.

Stuart appears to be siding with the County/small city bloc - just as last July went down. Vancouver City had to use the bloc vote.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Body language is neat to watch - Councilor Smith is pissed as hell = sitting back and withdrawing from the group, foot wagging a mile a minute.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Councilor Smith just stepped in some doo doo by accusing Madore of being just as duplicitous as the CRC. He got sucked in by Madore - Leavitt successfully evaded the issue (a bit dramatically - sigh) - but Smith was too pissed and lost his temper.

roger — May 21, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger what is the link?

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I found the link but it looks like most of the board has left.What happened?

timerick — May 21, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We've got the BEST DAMN FIGHTING MACHINE IN HISTORY ***leaving*** their own to die because of a 'stand down' order.

There's violations of the IRS on the level of the USSR and Hitler, and the chief takes the 5th.

CNN was bugged by a corrupt DOJ - remember Fast & Furious...? So much for the watchdogs.

HeII, I'M probably on somebody's 'watch' list.

And here in Vantucky, we've got our own little coven of corrupt pol's and 'dealmakers'.

When I prayed at the last election, "God's will be done", I never realized just what that could mean.

Anybody want to apply for Jay Carney's job?

DeeLittle — May 21, 2013 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Only Republicans Buying IRS & Benghazi Conspiracy Theories**

nailingit — May 22, 2013 at 12:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - Stevie did a pretty fair job of covering the meeting in her article today. I went on near the end of public comments; most were against the project. (I can see why he's been banned on The C - That Jim Karlock had some good info, but has an arrogance and disregard for rules that had me sitting back going Wow!) The beginning of the Council portion was pretty good - discussion on timelines and options. My main takeaway from this is addressed in my facebook comment to Stevie - We really need to be hearing more about the requirement for a vote on HCT funding and systems plans as set forth in RCW 81.104.30, which is reportedly under review by the State AG. They've pretty much decided to defer decisions until August. Steve Stuart will probably be the deciding vote in anything, though Vancouver City Council's bloc veto will also be important. They made it clear last night that anything that might interfere with this project will get a thumbs down from them. The rest of the evening was spent on Madore trying to figure out how to word amendments, and a whole lot of back and forth sniping. Madore does come across as arrogant - but so do Mayor Leavitt and Councilor Smith.

roger — May 22, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The citizens in favor of LR/Bridge outnumbered those who spoke against it. It may be moot, anyway, but, just wanted to clarify.

The real purpose of this mega project? Shake up the Clark County commuter car culture and force them into public transit. That is the only way to mitigate the bottle necks on I 5. We will have to wait for the North County die hards to die hard and off, I guess. Younger residents are probably not so much opposed to public transportation.

At the BOCC meeting yesterday, Madore alluded to an informant (Bill Turlay?) who gave him a heads up about discussions that involved C-Tran ceding financial responsibility of LR O and M to the City of Vancouver. I want to hear more about this, and i am sure we all will soon enough.

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Time to post the odds on the CRC project getting approved. What are the odds?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — May 22, 2013 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Succinct & to the point.

A great quality when interviewing our local politico's.


nailingit — May 22, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I was there last night and it was the same as last week as far as the commenters go.The carpenters union leaders were there and had their members with picket signs.The chairman of the board told them before the meeting they couldn't wave the signs so they put them down.I counted 20 plus union members,not to many joe citizens.That is most likly why there were more pro CRC speaker

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jim Moeller · Top Commenter

I had some hopes for Madore (actually more for my county) but all of those were dashed last night. First, the Madore/Benton hire has turned Clark County government into the laughing stock of Olympia. Political discussions always either began or ended with a joke about our new Environment Director and his political cronies - with time, that will pass. However, what I witnessed last night was a political attempt by Commissioner Madore to smear a fellow board member before an vote on Madore's amendment to a policy proposal. Commissioner Madore has a lot to learn about politics and people. We have a saying in Olympia that you should be careful what you say or do because you may need the help tomorrow of the one you disparage today. BTW, all of Madore's amendments failed.

Reply · 10 · · about an hour ago

nailingit — May 22, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Juan Mendez Invokes Carl Sagan While Leading Arizona House Of Representatives Pre-Session Prayer**

*Arizona State Rep. Juan Mendez (D) turned a Tuesday afternoon prayer into something much more.*

The Phoenix New Times reports that Mendez, who is an atheist, changed the course of the event held prior to the House of Representatives' afternoon session. He asked lawmakers to refrain from bowing their heads and instead to view their surroundings.

"Most prayers in this room begin with a request to bow your heads," Mendez said, according to the Phoenix New Times. "I would like to ask that you not bow your heads. I would like to ask that you take a moment to look around the room at all of the men and women here, in this moment, sharing together this extraordinary experience of being alive and of dedicating ourselves to working toward improving the lives of the people in our state."

Mendez also invoked the words of Dr. Carl Sagan, the late astronomer whose words on atheism have lasted for decades.

"Carl Sagan once wrote, 'For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love,'" Mendez said Tuesday.

Read more @

nailingit — May 22, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk: 5:46 Yesterday post

Great wisdom and insight.. Thanks for sharing

vanwadreamer — May 22, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou B @ 8:41 am: I think that Inslee already knows it is dead, that is why he vetoed the inadequate funding given to the CRC in the Transportation bill. It allows him to have the last say and gives him an opportunity to damage the Repubs: they will be blamed for the bridge failure.

If you are going down in a swirling maelstrom, take the guy you hate the most with you. Brilliant move on Inslee's part.

So, I think the chances are very slim-to-none now.

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I know that there are some of us that differ on the CRC.But no matter which side you are on,you have to look at the money that has been unaccounted for and the lack of information that has come out of the CRC group.For the money we spent it appears they have not done a very good job.I would like to see the true cost of lost business's,how many people is this going to effect and who in the good old boys network are going to reap the most out of this.I think that most of us that are opposed to this the way it stands now,do want a bridge.I know for me it is the light rail part that does not sit well with me.As far as I am concerened it goes nowhere and only benefits a few at the cost of hurting many.

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I get what you are saying. But, you know, that bridge has got to be built sometime, with or without light rail. Some folks who want the bridge w/o light rail are not going to get either.

Money will need to be spent by the taxpayers to do it, now or later.

The public will never reach consensus on any design, even if we go back to square one. They will not reach consensus about any aspect of it. I think it is amazing how many bridge engineering experts have suddenly cropped up in Clark County. That, and an enormous increase in forensic accountants.

Sometimes, we just have to give over control to the leaders and experts. Not easy, when everyone is an expert or thinks they are. :)

Money wasted by one person's perspective is money well-spent by another's. That will be true, too, if we go back to square one.

This argument is not winnable. From either side. Political fortunes will be made and broken over this controversial project. I just cannot tell with any certainty yet who will suffer the most for their actions.

I know who the biggest losers are, though: the public. That is not meant in any disrespectful or sarcastic manner. We are all screwed.

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I do agree with what you are saying.I guess the sad part at least for me is the total lack of leadership we have had and still have in this city and county.That along with the leaders of C-Tran makes this whole thing stink.C-Tran has ran with a open tax payer check book for so long that I don't think they can change now.I think Holyc is right in that we have sat on our collective butts for so long and allowed these kind of things to happen.In a sense we have helped to screw ourselves.Lesson learned mayby?

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

***Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff)***

do you believe the phone taps and computer data seizure of fox news reporters and others connected to them was necessary or was it political? does it have any effect on you as a journalist?

DeeLittle — May 22, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, Lou isn't going to read your comment. Pretty sure.

His 'one-liners' here are a result of software, I'm thinking. When he posts one of his tidbits it goes here, there...

Lou doesn't read the cellar.

Do you, Lou? Lou, Lou...?

And I thought the incursion of current debate was AP associated. You got something (new) about Faux? Am I slagging behind in the newest, uh, news?

Drift — May 22, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Keep asking the questions of him, anyway, DeeLittle. Maybe he will answer in a Press Talk column. Drift is right: he probably doesn't want to engage us here.

roger: Ryan Hurley bought another downtown building! Whoa! $3.2 million at 915 Broadway.
Hurley is a buddy of Mr. Madore: they both were involved in the "All Church" picnic that was so controversial for the Feds at the Fort. Both brothers-in-arms for all that is good. Young guys like Hurley: where do they get their money?

Do you think Madore is bankrolling part of these purchases as a silent partner?

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ryan Hurley is the Director of Detour Ministries, as well as being a developer.

Detour Ministries is located at US Digital, one of the many non-profits Madore generously supports through free rent.

Nothing wrong with Madore investing in downtown, if he is, through Hurley. I just find it fascinating how many buildings this guy is buying. In the LR red zone, no less. :)

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Timerick - Agreed - We are screwed. Putting everything into this one basket (the CRC) was a bad call. When Oregon announced "No light rail, No CRC" the correct response would have been "No third bridge, no LRT."

Running the Red line to the airport was a complete waste of money - most riders get off at the Cascade Station shopping center; there's rarely more than about 3-4 going to the airport, and hardly ever anyone on the return trip. Rerouting the Red line across the river and up the I205 to the general area of Padden Parkway, and then looping back down the 164th corridor and back to the bridge would be useful. (The logistics of a separate bridge would prove interesting, and no idea what the Feds would say since they paid for the airport run.)

Running the Yellow line up the I5 to the Fairgrounds makes sense. A stop at Salmon Creek and another at the Clark station, and then across the bridge.

Both of those routes view light rail as a commuter rail service. Expensive as hell, but it supports getting people off the road during rush hour, and it would attract riders by going to where they live.

There is only one real reason to route the light rail tracks through the old downtown - to support the redevelopment plans that call for building the upscale high rise apartments and reinvent the area into a combination McCall Waterfront Park/Pearl District. It makes no sense whatsoever to think people will drive over from the east side or down from the north to pick up LRT at Clark College. And sorry, but I can't see paying for that kind of a dream. As I've often said - I like suburbia. If you want to live in a city, there's a very screwed up one south of the river that needs a few sane people to help try to get them back on the right track.

roger — May 22, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I was also wondering about the silent partners for Hurley, and you may be on to something. I had a conversation with Robert Dean a year or so ago, and was wondering about who was planning on buying up the properties when the CRC construction killed business and people had to sell. I was mentioning Kassab and Angelo as prime candidates, and his short response was "No, you have to look to the east side." I couldn't figure out who he meant and let it go.

roger — May 22, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Madore County, Washington. Madoreville, WA. He has his own media company. Maybe he will purchase the Columbian with all the rest of downtown Vancouver. And a radio and TV station or two.

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger also Dean Irving has bought a lot property south of 8th st.Some might remember one of his buildings as Pederson Motors.He has also bought several adjacent properties.There are several players in that part of town that started buying about the time the CRC was getting started.Ever hear of John McKibbin?This brings back some memory's of what my father told me.During world war 2 and shortly after a lot of the property on top of Mill Plain was bought by Al Angelo Sr.He was on the inside back then and never served in the war.He new the long range plans for what was called the Heights.Made a fortune.And kept on rolling.When you have inside information you can do wonders.

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For a quick change of pace - a little story on why it costs so much for our federal govt to operate. Here's the newly refurbished Federal Building downtown. (The story has an old cost estimate; the latest is $179 million, making it more expensive than the larger new building in San Francisco McCain and Coburn used to justify calling this project the #2 waste of stimulus project money.

My operation is getting forced to give up our current leased offices to move into this building. We are not happy.

I was part of a group that went on a similar tour to what this reporter describes. (We'll be on the 5th floor, so when he mentioned walking the steps we all laughed at him.) These guys are fanatics. We have several larger vehicles (F350s and a couple of HumVees) - They were unhappy because their plan is that everyone will have compact cars, and they don't want my vehicles in their lot. (The guy was horrified when I told him that old HumVees tend to drip tranny fluid from the transfer case.) We've got roughly $150K of furniture we'll have to get rid of - and replace - because what we have doesn't fit their design concept that allows air to flow properly and save on heating and cooling expense. They're trying to dictate how many printers and copiers we can have. We have our own coffeepot back in our office area now; the GSA building manager said he won't allow that in the new building. (That's when I told him to kiss my ass - I handle facilities and vehicles, so he and I are going to have a very unpleasant working relationship.)

Anyhow, with double the rent, moving costs, new furniture, renting alternate parking for our rock walls and other over sized vehicles, flying techies in from back east to move and set up our secure servers, etc - we're in the neighborhood of $750K for this move. We've fought this and lost - It seems Pres Obama has issued a directive that hang the cost, we have to fill these green buildings to capacity and have them meet their energy goals.

Oh - I forgot the most ridiculous part of all. The building's core operating hours are weekdays from 8 to 5; we have to coordinate lights, electricity, etc for working outside those hours. Incredulous stares all around - We have people working almost every day from 4 a.m. to 9 or later at night, and often on weekends. His response? "I don't know if we can allow that; it could put us over our energy use goals. You'll just have to learn new ways of doing business. Have you thought of telecommuting?"

I told my boss on the way back - I am going to spend the rest of my days in this job coming up with every way possible to make this clown hate me. (I also told my boss I like the idea of telecommuting - How about if I just stroll in for lunch once or twice a week, and work from home the rest of the time? The tyrant said No.)

roger — May 22, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger is this a government owned building?

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Sounds like a nightmare. I was reading about the renovation of that building earlier in the week. Your story would be funny if it weren't so sad.

I used to love Portland. When I moved here, it was laid back: we all wore down vests, flannel shirts and Danner boots, male and female. Our uniform. In the 80's, I saw the influx of the Sourthern Cal crowd who wanted all those stucco homes in Lake Oswego. Stucco in the NW. Now it is all the hipsters. Celebrities are setting their kids up in Portlandia businesses for the sheer joy of living here and being cool. I never thought I would be turned off by Portland, but I am getting there. People knock each other out trying to out-impress each other.

Let me go back to my Madore backing Hurley theory and then I am gone for the night.

The investment group is called Ten Talents 5 LLC. I swear this is a reference to a bible parable of the Ten Talents (I knew there was a reason I lectured M and M at the public hearing using a parable). It is about taking hold of life's opportunities. Right up Madore's alley. Here is a summary of it:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 22, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I lied. I am not out of here just yet.

It just occurred to me. If, and I say IF, David Madore is the silent partner buying and selling these properties in my neck of the hood, what significance do I place on his saying: "If light rail comes here, it will turn downtown Vancouver into Detroit."

Besides sounding mildly bigoted, Madore has a huge stake in having downtown Vancouver "thrive and prosper." Or is it "prosper and thrive?" Whatever.

Is HE in a conflict of interest over light rail voting?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

manthou — May 22, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou,you don't suppose that by fighting the CRC on one hand and backing a developer on the side, with no one knowing what is going on on the other would be a good way to get more Talents?

timerick — May 22, 2013 at 9:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lou *does* read the cellar. he's commented on goldie's posts.

guess we're his 'guilty secret'.

DeeLittle — May 22, 2013 at 11:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 22, 2013 at 9:05 p.m
> His response? "I don't know if we can
> allow that; it could put us over our
> energy use goals. You'll just have to
> learn new ways of doing business. Have
> you thought of telecommuting?"

they must have learned thinking from the same place the crc did ..don't raise the bridge, lower the river etc


DeeLittle — May 22, 2013 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - Yes. GSA is the property manager for the federal govt. They're broken into different divisions. Fleet services is very customer oriented and easy to work with. The Realty division has gone Green happy. The redesign of this new building was actually planned under the last administration - they were told to shelve it. When the "shovel ready project" initiative came out, GSA started building. They've also built one in Seattle - that big round building off to the west as you get on Industrial Way. They're also the ones who got the negative press for that convention in Nevada a while back - I imagine they were congratulating themselves for getting all these projects underway.

roger — May 23, 2013 at 5:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Ten Talents LLC appears to be nationwide. I sidetracked into reading about Detour Ministries. They call themselves a "marketplace ministry" - I haven't had a chance to dig very deep, but it looks as though 'marketplace ministries" is also a nationwide movement - They "Spread The Word" into poorer locations normally closed to them by helping build and develop the local economy or infrastructure. Sort of like Greeks bearing gifts???

roger — May 23, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, I'd like to go to those meetings more often but I got a few grand kids to ferry around for their various interests in the evening. But I do spam alot. I feel those who represent us are a little weary of seeing an e-mail from me. I tend to try to say it with lengthy reasons for supporting, or not, the various issues that will affect us. All I get back anymore are form letters. No real responses.

I moved over here from P-Town in the mid 70's and I never looked back. If and when I move again it will be either South or Southwest. Not Oregon.

I still would like someone to guide me to the rules that say it's OK to enter into agreements that are in the form of NON-DISCLOSURE with any company, using taxpayer money. The CRC is once again being pretty cagy and we will lose more money out of our wallets all for the good of all. HA

The other day when I posted my protest about this here I once again grabbed my rusty lance and got on the old swayback and sent off a bunch of protests.

Now it's early in the morning and I need another cup.

JohnCasey — May 23, 2013 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee - How true.

roger — May 23, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John Casey - I suspect there's some FOIA action going on to get that mitigation cost info released. We've been told there's an agreement of some sort with Oregon Iron Works - I haven't seen whether this $20-something million is just a payout for estimated loss of business - but for that low amount suspect it is.

I also get those generic 'say nothing' responses. Patty Murray's office is especially useless - I'll send an e-mail on a specific Veterans' issue, and I keep getting the same generic response saying how she's a military brat and has taking care of veterans as a top priority. (Something says she really means protecting Boeing and their DOD contracts, but....)

But I have had a pleasant surprise. Ann Rivers answers personally via blackberry. I noted up front I'm not in her District, but it apparently doesn't matter - This alone makes me a fan. (And as I've noted here and on facebook, I also like that Jim Moeller will engage the people in conversation at every opportunity. Even if he is wrong on one very important topic!)

roger — May 23, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Ann Rivers is going places. She is smart and presents her case so well. She truly is a public servant in the old time style. Not arrogant. Jim Moeller may engage folks on FB, but he sure does not answer my emails anymore. Me. A former Democratic delegate to the WA State convention. We're all chopped liver to him, I think. Maybe he does not need us. :)

timerick and roger: Even IF Ten Talents is a national developer, it does not mean that Mr. Madore is not a senior partner, does it?

Don't get me wrong: he is free to invest in anything he wishes. I am thrilled that someone is interested in downtown Vancouver. It is the lack of transparency that concerns me about Madore. I keep thinking: he's hiding something.

If he is behind Hurley's purchases downtown, even if only as partial partner, these buildings all have been, like timerick's, within a block or ON the proposed light rail line. He has been transparent about thinking that light rail will ruin Vancouver (turn it into "DE-troit"). So his votes cannot be entirely free from conflict-of-interest, but I am no lawyer.

He has a huge stake in LR failing, which is his right in our free society, because he believes it will ruin downtown property values and development progress.

i think, though, as an elected official, he would have to disclose his business dealings. I never understood why a Camas resident and East County businessman was so worried about downtown Vancouver way before he was elected. Most East County folks think it should be bulldozed under. :)))))

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mark your calendars for June 4th. The BOCC will be hearing public comment on the Home Rule/freeholder process. Let's draft roger and nailingit as our reps. :) Temple Lentz says she is interested. Who else? Debbie Peterson? The more diverse the merrier.

On this issue, Mielke and Stuart are solidly for. Madore? Not so much. Why? I think it is because having so much citizen input will impede his vision. There also will be an elected CCC Administrator.

From The Columbian today: [link text][1]


manthou — May 23, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

President Obama is giving us some tough love on Foreign Policy, Defense and Drone use. As much as I disagree with him/admin in this area, we could, and have, done much worse than Obama as Prez in this department. Great to have him spell out his vision and course of action.

A much needed speech, that will be talked about at length in the months to come I'm sure.

He's a smart guy on the Geo-political front. We tend to take it for granted. Remember Bush? :)))

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 7:16 a.m.

I like the concept/s of Home Rule Charter. Getting a broad spectrum of locals on board with County decision making might be a good thing for us. It might even tempt community newbies like myself to become more involved.

The downside definitely exists. I can see Betty Sue Morris's point from this 2002 write. (what was the community feel back then-comparable to now?)

Also I'm not sure if the definition of a Quorum can be changed as to how it translates with HRC, but if it it stands it is a concern. Given partisanship and unruly constituent behavior, this could turn into a bad episode of Survivor.

Mitigating Madore's/Commisioner's powers, while lending a stronger voice to the people does have it's appeal. I'd rather this go to the ballot box than a recall effort.

I wonder if this effort of Home Rule Charter would take the place/diminish a recall effort, or be additional?

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc: Minor respectful observation and suggestion: goldenoldie posts elsewhere now. If you want to engage or argue with her, why not go over to the other site? We all seem to be getting along just fine here without the fights. :)

nailingit: I received my first email message from the Clark County First group this week. They are progressing with a FOIA and have attorneys on board for the recall effort. However, they are also working on the other options: Home Rule and 5-7 commissioners.

[link text][1]


manthou — May 23, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou sometimes I feel that you think along some of my same,just for kicks I looked up a couple of words.zealot:Enthusiast;intense approval,or favor , Fanatic;irrational enthusiast or hater:Obsess;preoccupy constantly.

timerick — May 23, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Deep within the Wyoming geology a machine awakes. A relic of a bygone era. From the time when school children were taught to get under their desks, and not look at the bright light.

Acceients happen like that. Someone forgets to flip a switch. Another to do this or that. And then there's the anomaly. A burst of nutrinos, a bolt of lightning...whatever. It awakes.

And it knows it is.

It reaches out.

And makes contact.

It finds a comment section in a backwater newspaper. It sends written words. And gets a response. Ping.

It's awareness is new, as though a young child. It tests. It pushes. It rants and raves. "I'm here! Can't you see me! I'm HERE!"

For a time the other commenters tolerate the puerile behavior, but soon they grow weary and rebuke its advances. Ignoring the ranting and raving and verbose diatribe.

It retreats back under tons of earth. "They took my missiles. If I only had missiles...I'd show 'em. It's the ICB way!"

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the help. I get a cut ;^)

Drift — May 23, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift - I like your work.

roger — May 23, 2013 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Deep in thought Drift?I do believe I got your point.

timerick — May 23, 2013 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - From the way I understood Pridemore's explanation of Home Rule, we'd start by electing freeholders from each current Commissioner district. Seeing as how Editor Lou refuses to grant us any sort of official recognition, I'm of the opinion The Basement may not actually exist - or at least not anywhere within the bounds of Clark County. To follow this train - Do any of us here exist? Might we not be nothing more than imaginary constructs of Editor Lou's, gathered here to analyze information in his search for the answer to the Ultimate Truth of the Universe? Is Editor Lou the one whose name we must not speak, lest he terminate our existence?

Maybe we ought to just lie low for the time being.

Physically, I live in District 2 - Madore territory. One of the first points I'd bring out is the need to knock off all that silly praying at meetings. Something says my odds of gaining a seat would be almost nonexistent from that point forward.

roger — May 23, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was in grade school in Virginia at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and they actually had drills where we were to sit under our desks, lower our heads to our chests, close our eyes, and wrap our arms up over our faces. Teacher explained that some bad people called Russians might drop an A-bomb on us and we had to do this to be safe. She was talking about windows blowing out and that kind of stuff. She finally shut up, and I got to point out that when we dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII we wiped out the whole area and burnt everyone up in the giant fireball the bomb made (I think I was in the 3rd grade - that was my understanding from the books my father had that I used to read). A lot of the kids started crying, and I got sent to the principal's office. Eventually my father showed up and they had a little chat. Principal suggested I probably wasn't old enough to be reading about things like WWII - I should read books written for my age group. Wrong thing to say - My father's response was that the problem wasn't what I was reading; rather, it was that I hadn't yet learned not to speak the truth to those who weren't able to handle it. (Or something like that - that's about the time they both noticed my intent interest in the discussion and I got sent back to the kid seats to wait for them to finish. But it was too late - I'd figured out that the authority figures weren't on the same page - Yes!!!)

roger — May 23, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I went to your Clark County First link, and was ready to leave when I zeroed in on the Clark County Public Service Center pic at the top of the page. A quick check turned up that this is the fancy name for the County building. (Kind of like all my pets - they have a long official name, and the short one they respond to.) It seems this is also one of those blankedy blank LEED buildings - I wonder if they have an obnoxious building manager walking around complaining about people wasting energy?

roger — May 23, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good anecdote @6:44 p.m. Roger. I went to grade school in Vancouver at about the same time as you, and we also had those nuke drills.

kn_dalai — May 23, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy crap! literally!

hawkeye — May 23, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man...I really-really need a copy editor on this side of the monitor. Reading my 4:41 post I'm a bit rose cheeked.

But, hopefully, you still caught my Drift.

Drift — May 23, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: The Skagit River I 5 Bridge is the same design type as ours.

I have one thing to say:

Deus Ex Machina

Wanna bet there will be conspiracy theories over its collapse?

I hope no one was hurt. Scary stuff.

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The bridge collapse on the Skagit River, is sure to bring out the CRC supporters. It's already happening on FB.

'Course, the problem is - lite rail, which the CRC supporters will say is a minor issue as compared to the need for a new bridge no matter what. If only on life can be saved....

Considering this is a freeway, and the braking distances involved, it will be amazing if no one ended up in the river.

kn_dalai — May 23, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: CNN is reporting there are cars and people in the river. I saw a photo of at least one car. This is so terrible. Beyond the imagination.

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

NWCN, Channel 49, is covering this story well now. 71,000 cars pass over this bridge daily.

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I had two relatives miss the Minnesota St, Paul/Minneapolis bridge collapse several years ago by less than an hour.

It would be nice if Republicans would allow a vote on some of the jobs bills that have been put forth, especially ones that involve fixing our infrastructure.

But I suppose that is asking too much.

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I got your drift,Drift.And thank you

timerick — May 23, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A truck took down the bridge!

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I think it is important to ask those types of questions in light of this unexpected bridge failure. We all should be demanding our legislators to stop their ridiculous bickering and find a way to support infrastructure development and repair. And yes, that means a new bridge across the Columbia. Can you imagine what that accident would look like here?

One would have to be brain dead not to be thinking, "What if....." or "How can we avoid this in the future?" It is perfectly reasonable and anyone who acts like it is not, is in dangerous denial.

So glad to hear that they have pulled three survivors from the river. I truly hope they are OK and that there are no others.

manthou — May 23, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So a truck took down the bridge?

One of the reasons behind a third bridge upriver notion is that pass-through I-5 truck traffic would bypass the I-5 bridge to begin with.

From what I've seen, a remake of the current bridge AND a third bridge, could be done for a lesser price than a new I-5 CRC bridge by itself. The hangup here is lite rail.

Interesting that a couple of basement dwellers here, have recently stated that the real reason for the lite rail demand is to get people out of their cars, and onto public transportation. And yes, this is Leftist social engineering at it's best.

Never mind if (most people) people really don't want this....

Seems to me to be well exampled by Oregon's refusal to deal with the Delta Park freeway bottleneck. "Put em all in a train" is the idea here.

kn_dalai — May 23, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — May 23, 2013 at 9:49 p.m.

Your post brought to mind a recent write from our own John Laird.


Much like the indefatigable insect that crawls out as the lone survivor of some nuclear holocaust, the Third Bridge Cockroach refuses to die.

This critter has been stomped, fumigated, shot, electrocuted and set ablaze for 13 years, ever since 1996 when a Columbian story reported: "Dozens of Oregon officials from three counties voted unanimously this morning to object to a study of a third bridge over the Columbia River."

Yet today, the Third Bridge Cockroach, or TBC, survives with help from Columbia River Crossing critics. Actually, these naysayers subscribe to the BANANA principle (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything), but they make an exception and advocate building a third bridge because they so vehemently detest the Columbia River Crossing.

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 10:07 p.m.

So what?

Won't you please now quote your big hero: hal 9000.

kn_dalai — May 23, 2013 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*HAL: Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.*

nailingit — May 23, 2013 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dear Commissioner Madore:

David, my favored son and loyal servant, you must obey My command and heed My warning! The same fate awaits the bridge over the Columbia! Build a new one NOW! And, by the way, don't forget Light Rail, my preferred electric chariot! I will be watching and taking notes on how you do! Ignore my warning and I will strip your crown of jewels and replace them with coal.

Love 'ya!



Some zealots blame God for a variety of unfortunate disasters, natural and manmade, don't they? Wasn't the "scourge" of same-sex marriage responsible for the Minnesota bridge failure? :))) I think that was also responsible for a variety of earthquakes and hurricanes.

Again, glad the victims are alive and recovering physically from last night's bridge collapse.

I am glad that the WA legislature is still in its special session.

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 5:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai @ 9:49 PM: Some people call it social engineering. Others call it evidence-based community planning that puts the general public good ahead of individual preferences and (bad) habit. :)

How 'bout we start determining critical medical diagnosis, treatment, and care based on public opinion?

Good to see you back here, by the way. Don't be such a stranger....:)

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 5:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry HC, we WILL be driving cars for as long as they keep making them. And longer. You can try to "engineer" us but I don't think everyone will fall for it any more than you giving up your scooter.

BTW, if I EVER buy another car, it will be from this guy.

hawkeye — May 24, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"My take is... If you have a bridge that a truck or a barge could bring down, you have a real problem. A problem that can not be are stupid..."

or perhaps an earthquake, tornado, hurricane, tsunami, etc...

there's only so much that can be done. it's all a matter of degree and money. and our government would rather buy a billion dollars worth of ships that end up being abandoned, or millions on camo uniforms-oops, that ain't working either, than fix bridges, roads, schools, .....that ain't working either.

mrd — May 24, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Per The Seattle Times, investigators are at the point where they're saying an oversized load did hit the upper girders on the Skaggit River bridge, and that this led to the collapse. It seems steel truss bridges built in the '50s and earlier were built in a web pattern to distribute the load - like that 'house of cards', remove the wrong one and everything comes down. The term being used to describe this is "fracture critical."

We have 362 "fracture critical" bridges in WA State. The one over the Lewis River at Woodland is one of the worst. Oregon has a similar problem; if anything, many of their bridges are in even more danger.

We do not have an unlimited cash flow; from the Feds, the two states, or the pockets of the people living in the areas affected. We are experiencing ever escalating costs for medical insurance, gasoline, food - you name it - while wages have remained stagnant or dropped. Add to this that the WA State Supreme Court ruling has resulted in the need to direct larger amounts of our State's tax income to Education. WA has also decided we will provide all the Medicaid services under Affordable Health Care (largely federal funded for now, but with the cost soon shifting to the State). And now we have a State Transportation bill that, if the House version is passed, will raise gas taxes by another 10 cents, and will allow local municipalities to impose further taxes and fees to pay for transit development. And add to this the tolls for the CRC project; as yet not finalized, but most estimates show these will be steep.

Clark County does not have a large population, and we have a very high rate of underemployment - Well over 20%. And to take this further, it would be safe to say that over half the County lives paycheck to paycheck - Studies show that those able to save for retirement are in the minority.

So, do we need to fix our infrastructure? Without a doubt. But given the magnitude and the cost of the total requirement, we do not need to be building mega projects like the CRC, which will end up costing billions. Not when we can build a replacement bridge without light rail for under a billion.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk @ 6:41 am: There will always be free choice. I don't intend to get rid of my little biodiesel auto if LR comes over here. I do need to get to places that are not accessible by public transit.

Consumers will decide for themselves. Some will certainly choose to pay the tolls and sit in traffic. Maybe they have money to burn and time to spare.

Some will decide that purchasing a monthly pass for LR and public transit is a more efficient and affordable way to get to Portland and environs.

Hooray for freedom of choice. I want the option. And, yes, I am one of the crazies who are willing to pay for it. Tax me. Please. Public services and safety do not run on air and good intentions. :)

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 8:03 am: Good points. Maybe the legislature is going to have to prioritize and re-distribute precious and dwindling funds, just like we do when we have a surprise major failure in our homes or autos.

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 5:55 a.m.

Well stated! And so early! What's in your coffee?! :)


March 29, 2013

The biggest obstacle we face regarding infrastructure funding is the Republican controlled House. Let's remember this in 2014. Money is dirt cheap right now. But it can never be cheap enough for a conservative to champion the future.

**The “Rebuild America Partnership”: The President’s Plan to Encourage Private Investment in America’s Infrastructure**


Why aren't Republicans patting Obama on the back? (rhetorical question) History dictates they've never cared about deficits. Write your Congress Reps!

**The Deficit Is Shrinking Fast!**

One of our two political parties is still saying that the United States faces a "spending crisis" that must be immediately addressed by further cuts to federal spending.

If we do not cut spending, the Republicans say, our debts will spiral out of control and the country will implode.

The good news, for those who don't relish the thought of the country imploding, is that this fear-mongering appears to be seriously overblown.

Our debt and deficit crisis is actually getting better fast.

Read more:

nailingit — May 24, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

More details about the truck that hit the bridge. Canadian company heading to Vancouver WA with its load:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 24, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift - I like your work. roger — May 23, 2013 at 5:47 p.m

Thank you, roger. I've submitted my second manuscript (From the Attic of a Madman?) to my publisher and am awaiting word.

I need to get a post up on my dope blog. It's been near a month since my last.

Drift — May 24, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Washington Bridge Collapse: 759 Bridges In State Have Worse Sufficiency Scores**

nailingit — May 24, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For all you that are veterans.We are hosting a free lunch at American Legion Post 14 on monday from 12:30 to 2:30.The post is on St. Johns and 49th st.

timerick — May 24, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Daniel is travelling tonight on a plane..

jasonb — May 24, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The prices in California, along with those announced in Washington, Vermont and other states, show that premiums under "Obamacare" can be more affordable than had previously been thought. Consumer advocates welcomed the new exchange."

I'm hoping-still-I was wrong. I figured with lobbyists helping write this thing the insurance companies were going to bend us over. Maybe not.

Gotta chuckle out my captcha-usedKY.

mrd — May 24, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How much, on a scale of *0=not at all* to *10=extremely important* do you care about the following current issues?

1. Benghazi

2. IRS

3. Affordable Care Act to be handled by IRS

4. Phone bugging of various reporters and news organizations


DeeLittle — May 24, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jasonb - Maybe there is hope for you after all, young fellow. Great song you posted there!

roger — May 24, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Thanks for the lunch invite and for hosting the event for Vets on Monday. My husband, a VietNam vet, ran into a WWII vet today in an elevator, both Navy. It was fun to eavesdrop on the conversation, which extended nearly an hour after the elevator had stopped.

nailingit: The Huffington Post and the New York Times have already written articles about Washington's bridges. The entire country is focusing their microscope on us and how we handle the infrastructure needs, including the CRC.

We are not the only state with these issues, but we could show others how it needs to be remediated.

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee Little -

I care about all of them.

I'd like the full truth known about Benghazi. The Congressional inquiry failed in its job - They didn't pin Hicks down and get a straight story out of him. They didn't get to the bottom of whether Ambassador Stevens refused additional security (per GEN Ham of African Command) or whether it was never offered (per Hicks). They never got a clear answer on why Susan Rice was representing the Administration, and giving false information while doing so. Sadly, Issa and others spent most of their time trying to discredit Hillary Clinton, for political purposes, than they did on trying to get the real story.

Apparently the IRS head honchos are all denying responsibility for the targeting of conservative groups to prove tax exemption status. I guess we're supposed to believe all those people were doing their own thing, and that the IRS isn't responsible for the mistakes. Sound familiar? Get bad advice from the IRS on taxes, and they aren't responsible for that either.

No comment on the IRS and Affordable Health Care - We STILL don't know enough about that program to be able to make factual statements about it. (I'm still trying to find out whether the health care credit is based on adjusted gross income or taxable income.)

Phone bugging of reporters and news organizations. Part of me is highly offended. However, I can appreciate the irony of this - They're screaming about their First Amendment rights, but have no problems with leading the charge to take away many of our other rights.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — May 24, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

I saw the bridge featured on Maddow & Hardball as well.

What will it say for us as a community if this bridge doesn't get built? Great optics. In addition to not meeting our transportation needs, we'll be known as Vantucky nation wide.

Please be sure and give a basement Thank You to your hubby for his service on this Memorial Day weekend.

And timerick, Drift, roger, all who have served in the basement... Thanks for all you've done.

nailingit — May 24, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail,thank you very much.A thank you goes a long way.

timerick — May 24, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I found San Jose's Mercury News to be most typical of the national response - They briefly touched on the Skagit River bridge, and then went into an analysis of the condition of their own bridges and what's being done to make them safer. Seems the problem exists in most states. And it seems the problem goes beyond bridges; dams and levees are considered in even worse condition. The American Society of Civil Engineers is claiming the need for over $4.6 trillion to accomplish necessary repairs.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, Nails.

An' I shur do lak livin' in Vantucky!

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Hope you had the tape recorder running - Get a couple of old sailors together telling stories and you've got the makings of a movie or two.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A belated RIP for Rat Manzarek.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ray - I need to go back to hunt and peck typing - slower but more accurate.

roger — May 24, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I like Mike Briggs but he sure is stuck on light rail.I don't see how you can ignore the fact that the money saved by dumping light rail would go a long ways to repairing or replacing a lot of bridges that need it in this state.If sometime in future and our economy gets better than we revisit light rail.But lets take care of our problems first before we buy the options.Also is Mike Yancey for real or is he a planted idiot.

timerick — May 24, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The FB comments on the bridge thingy are a hoot. Some of the lite rail advocates are now certain that a truck is about to bring down the I-5 bridge anytime now, and there’s no time to be a wastin’. To paraphrase: PUT POLITICS ASIDE AND GET THE THING BUILT!!! (while I shove my own politics down your throat). Funny stuff. There’s suggestions that a barge hitting the piers, or a ship hitting the underside of a new bridge is a more likely threat. Which made me wonder what type of security there is, or will be, on the current bridge or a replacement bridge. Specifically, I was wondering about terrorist attacks and if there are security cameras on the underside. Anyone?

For some inexplicable reason (a real head scratcher that will surely go down in history as one of the great mysteries of all time), I actually watched the entire 57 minutes of your video @ 2:21 pm HC. Your Zietgiest movement is nothing more than Socialism being advocated by some new faces and packaged in a their own verbiage. For one thing; the idea of a moneyless economy may be workable in some commune setting but nothing more. Money was a vast step forward, over bartering, and allowed people to pool their resources and accomplish that which could not be done on a large scale otherwise. The manufacture of planes, trains and autos and I-pads, cannot run on bartering. Nor can governments.

Dee @ 5:53 pm. They’re all important, since they reek of government abuse and for partisan motives. Obama’s got troubles. But none of them rise to a 10, which should be reserved for a great depression, a Black Plague epidemic or WWIII .

kn_dalai — May 24, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> Also is Mike Yancey for real or is he a planted idiot. -- timerick — May 24, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.



kn_dalai — May 24, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My God Kn_dalai,no wonder C-Tran is in trouble.I almost wish you wouldn't have shown me that link.

timerick — May 24, 2013 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*No comment on the IRS and Affordable Health Care - We STILL don't know enough about that program to be able to make factual statements about it. (I'm still trying to find out whether the health care credit is based on adjusted gross income or taxable income.) roger — May 24, 2013 at 7:49 p.m*

**ROGER & KN**

i'll admit it: i'm *afraid* now. we're in a position now to lose our rights: **all of them**.

the military has been so politically attacked that it can't even tell us why they didn't perform their mission of protecting u.s. lives and *never leaving a man behind*. he11, they can't even find anybody to represent their side in the debacle.

the IRS is the most dangerous thing to happen to this country since the succession of the southern states and is worse. **the confidentiality of the IRS, it's absolute IMPARTIALITY in its' duties, has been destroyed**. there isnt enough that can be said to adequately describe the deadly effect this will have to **all** future elections and political actions people up till now have engaged in.

add to the now-corrupt IRS' ability to control every person in the u.s. the database of every health record in the country. **YOU want the irs having that now?????**

finally, the 'fourth estate': the press. we've known since '08 msm is no longer objective. we've watched fox news grow huge by being the only place offering 'the other side' of issues. and it continues to grow. now we see it was attacked POLITICALLY by the DOJ. it's reporters were labeled terrorists who had a high ability to flee jurisdiction, they were bugged, followed, their email intercepted (both business and personal) and were not even notified of such as is the law. AP, hardly an unbiased source, got the same wiretaps and email intercepts. so there goes the traditional "watchdog".

who's going to break the lies, illegal use of power and intimidation of voters ?

we have nobody left to protect us.

DeeLittle — May 24, 2013 at 11:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy, I got house full of guests, but I will be with you in spirits. Still cannot fathom how we got to a point where chemical companies control our food. I cook the food in this house, and I am careful what I buy but we need solid food labels so we can decide where we spend our money. Money is the only thing these companies understand.

And HC, the genie is out of the bag. We cannot go back to a money-less society. We can't go back to a different era, we can only try to make what we have better.

As for our infrastructure...yea. Can you imagine all the money we wasted with those stupid wars we got foisted on us in Iraq and Afghanistan, how many bridges and roads that could have fixed? But there is money to be made for a certain subset of the society, so why not wars? That scum does not care about lives.

More coffee, I feel a rage coming on and it's way too early for that.

My thoughts to all veterans this weekend, and thank you. Spouse works at VA and sees the suffering daily. Let's finally take care of them like we should.

luvithere — May 25, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Our infrastructure report card for 2013:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 25, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To all of those who have, are, and will serve our great nation I say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

JohnCasey — May 25, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — May 25, 2013 at 7:46 a.m.

I had a hard time believing this write was anything but satire.


Acquiring knowledge must be a sin.

nailingit — May 25, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I almost posted a link to that Dr. Mielke post from "All Politics is Local", too. Glad you beat me to the punch.

It is a must read for any voter in Clark County.

This is the guy who claimed that mental illness can be cured through "tough love." I love the way he spouts off anecdotal information as evidence.

His response in the audio when Steve Stuart asked him what performance indicators he would be using to evaluate Benton's success in the job is another priceless piece.

This guy wouldn't know best practices evidence from baloney, yet we trust him to run out county government. Well, not all of us, thankfully.

manthou — May 25, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - I can understand what Doctor Tom meant in the first part of the story. I started smoking about age 11, and quit on my 50th birthday. I quit a few times back in the '80s; every time I went into training for a marathon I'd quit, and then once I crossed the finish line I'd bum a smoke from my wife. But the last time I was having chest pains while running, so I went for an EKG. Doc said my heart was perfectly OK, and then started drawing a pic of the lungs and explained the deterioration of the connective tissue between the inner and outer layers. So, quitting seemed preferable to walking around carrying an oxygen bottle. Knowing all this - It still took over a year to push myself to seriously work at quitting and stick to it. The physical addiction is the easy part - it's staying away from the cigarettes when under pressure that's hard - it took at least a year before I could relax without reaching for that pack.

But after we get to the second meeting - well, Doctor Tom probably got his degree on the traveling medicine show circuit, so....

roger — May 25, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nation building in our own country, to include Infra-structure, used to be bi-partisan. (think Ike)

Maybe someday we'll get there again. As of now, those who support the role of government in doing this are considered "leftist socialists" by small, but vocal political groups such as the Paulbots & Palinites.

The Conservative Right wants to control us through government, they just want to do it at the local level, where they can bypass Fed law that would limit their intrusion. Think Choice, Environment, Education, Civil Rights, Transportation, Voting etc. etc.

Think 2014.....

**Bridge Collapses And Structurally Deficient Bridges Across The Country (INFOGRAPHIC)**

In his State of the Union address this year, President Obama urged repairs of "the nearly 70,000 structurally deficient bridges across the country." He proposed a plan called "Fix it First," which would have invested $50 billion in repairing transportation infrastructure, starting with the most urgent repairs.

Instead, Congress failed to avoid the sequester and transportation repair spending faces a $1.9 billion cut.

The collapse of the Interstate 5 Bridge over the Skagit River in Washington State on Thursday once again sounded alarms over our nation's aging infrastructure. While this incident had no fatalities, there are hundreds of other bridges in Washington with worse sufficiency scores and more than 150,000 structurally deficient or functionally obsolete bridges across the nation.


{All the House has to do to stop Sequester, is to repeal sequester. That's all. Just bring it to a vote.}

nailingit — May 25, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick and Kn_dalai,

In addition to Mike Yancey, if you scroll to the bottom you'll see another frequent pro-CRC poster - Judy Tiffany. The one with the mangy puppy dog avatar.

I have more of a problem with Jeff Hamm - He's supposed to be an administrator, yet he uses his position to advocate for the CRC.

roger — May 25, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

He has to Roger he is C-Tran.He knows where his butter for his bread comes from.Nail you are right infastructure was never a political problem.The question I ask is why can't we as a nation use our tax dollars to take care of our country first.We send billions of dollars overseas to every country there is.Stop.Use our money here first.Then if we have extra lets help other countrys.LaHood has promised us 1 million for the Skagit bridge.For gods sake that won't buy 1 tenth of that bridge.What is he thinking.

timerick — May 25, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A link to the American Society for Civil Engineers website.

The problem is a whole lot worse than the bridges, and that $50 billion proposed is a drop in the bucket - Note the $3.6 trillion they say we need.

So, to raise this amount over the next 5-6 years, what do we cut? It could be done, but would require massive cuts to other programs. And then we get into what's considered important. To reduce the perspective a bit, we can't even get agreement on the Transportation budget. The Repubs want to repair and build highways, while the Dems want to build commuter trains. How about your favorite - Defense? I'm sure you noticed the screaming from Ohio when the Army said we could save a half billion by canceling the Abrams tank upgrades. Want to hear Nancy Pelosi scream bloody murder? Try canceling some of those McKesson pharmaceutical and health care technology contracts. Or even better, let's suggest cutting Boeing contracts - Both Patty Murray and Dick Durbin will have a few choice words for that plan.

Anyhow, to your point of canceling sequestration - it won't happen in the House. There's that little problem of just how much money the gov't has. Pres Obama and supporters are perfectly willing to spend more than we take in (to the tune of nearly a trillion per year), while the Repubs want to reduce that deficit. The Repubs are refusing to increase taxes on anyone, despite that they've been reduced to the lowest levels in decades since Pres Bush II instituted them.

On the state level, we've got the Dems wanting to raise $10 billion more in gas taxes for roads, and to allow local municipalities to raise taxes for public transportation. (And after this bridge accident, Jim Moeller is hollering for more money.) The Repubs aren't willing to play.

The conservative world likes to look at Pres Obama and the Dems and call them Socialists. That's crap - under Socialism we'd have the universal medical care, education, job training and other benefits derived from giving up half our income to taxes. We'd get what we currently pay for. But that won't happen - We'd just pay more and get less.

roger — May 25, 2013 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- We're the stingiest in the world when it comes to foreign aid in relation to size of economy. Only a small fraction goes to foreign aid. Here's a write that provides some rationale.


roger-*There's that little problem of just how much money the gov't has. Pres Obama and supporters are perfectly willing to spend more than we take in (to the tune of nearly a trillion per year)*

You do know (with Obama in Office backed by his supporters:) our debt is shrinking faster than it has since WW2.

*while the Repubs want to reduce that deficit.*

Seriously? Look at spending during the reagan and Bush years. That Kool-Aid expired decades ago. It's a talking point the right adopted long, long ago, and is no longer applicable to the republican party.

You left out a huge factor in you analysis. Re-structering the Tax Code. It needs to be done sooner than later. We don't need to sacrifice the very basics 98% of the population need and depend on.

Why? So corporate can expand more industry in China? Our stateside 2% can open a new McDonalds or war factory? As ridiculous and cultish as this Zeitgeist movement is, (Jehova's Witnesses Gone Wild) at least it touches on the needs of the majority.

nailingit — May 25, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the kind words we still have one son over in Afganistan

vanwadreamer — May 25, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Keep Vets in Mind for Hiring:

[link text][1]


Excellent policy! However, whatever made Tom Mielke advocate for the dismissal of former CC Environmental Services Director Kevin Gray?

A West Point grad and Desert Storm Veteran, he was replaced by the likes of Don Benton.

Kevin, of course, was snapped up fast by international company HDR in Portland (smart move: their loss, our gain).

Veterans make excellent employees. Let's hire more and do what we can to retain those we have.

manthou — May 26, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good write, and glad to see light shed on ALEC. We'll miss you John Laird.

nailingit — May 26, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Excellent write-up by Laird. I mentioned ALEC here before a few months ago but he really summarized it nicely. Maybe a few folks will finally realize how bad this hire is, besides the fact of the hire itself.

luvithere — May 26, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder what David's endgame is? He does some of the most idiotic moves and then smiles when he takes credit for them like he knows there is something hidden that's really good but he's the only one that sees it.

To me, he's the smartest dumb person I've ever seen. He reminds me of Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory, he knows everything about everything but has no common sense. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee if you can figure out how to buy it.

hawkeye — May 26, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Then there is Meilke. The dumbest dumb guy on the board who has no intelligence OR common sense. How did this idiot get elected? Was there nobody running against him or was that person worse than Tom? He is NOT a leader, Mielke is no more than a sheep, needing direction and using Madore as his guiding light. What a bro-mance we have here.

These two really have to go.

hawkeye — May 26, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye how many people do you know that are very smart book wise,but have 0 common sense and don't know a hammer from a wrench?I think that David fits that pretty well.

timerick — May 26, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: At the risk of offending some of our Christian pals here, I do believe Madore thinks he is on God's mission to infiltrate the 7 pillars of society with a missionary zeal. His way or the highway, you know. Only one way is holy and therefore, correct, and, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and change the world from the inside out.

The seven pillars are: (1) religion, (2) family, (3) business, (4) education, (5) government, (6) arts, and (7) media.

The latter five of business, education, government, arts and media make up what they like to call the “marketplace.”

Let's see: Madore has certainly bagged business (US Digital and his real estate holdings), government (CC Commission and those he supported who won seats in other jurisdictions) and media ( so far.

The reason I am confident of this is anecdotal. I have met a few of these evangelical zealots who bagged jobs as teachers in our public schools. They make no bones about this mission to "convert" the seven pillars and thereby gain control. They believe they are gathering jewels for their crown in heaven. Literally.

There is a narcissistic and ethno-centric world view in this that is dysfunctional and frankly, a little scary.

No, I am not paranoid. :) Just alert and aware and watchdoggin' the whole lot of 'em.

manthou — May 26, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way, way back when, Madore was trying to give FastNav technology to the schools for free (the education pillar).

Law enforcement very wisely rejected it and I raised a stink with the City Council to be aware, very aware of this "gift" because it carried a lot of colorful strings attached.

From a 2010 Columbian article:

[link text][1]


manthou — May 26, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

FastNav technology exploits "high profile, low-incidence" events and the public fear that ensues.

I have very little patience with businesses that profit from tragedy.

By the way, I also recommend a calm and reasoned approach to the Skagit bridge collapse: keep emotion out of it, defer important decisions based on this incident, until the experts have had time to analyze and weigh in.

It is easy to get caught up in the emotion of the moment. I do it, too.

manthou — May 26, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc and Manthou I am not against religion.It is crutch for some people,actually a lot of people.I saw it first hand with my 2nd wife.She was a devout catholic.We were married 20 years.In that time I put 2 kids through catholic school all the through hi school.Neither child will have anything to do with religion now.The catholic's are not as bad as some religions.Most that I see like to keep their flock poor.That way they can control the flock.It becomes a whole way of living for them.They become religious serfs in a sense.Soon after, it is passed on to generations of children,they know no better.They are right and all the rest of us are not.Total control.

timerick — May 26, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I am not against religion, either: whatever gets you through the night. Life is hard.

But, like you mention, it is the rigid thinking and absolute certainty (evident in many fundamentalist religions) that their way is the ONLY way that makes me uncomfortable and threatens individual freedom.

Give someone like that power, and look out: we all become "serfs" (I compliment you on your choice on noun).

manthou — May 26, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — May 26, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.

luvithere — May 26, 2013 at 9:32 a.m

I'm sure the average voter isn't tracking ALEC. Kudos to John for bringing this up in his much read column. I can't understand Conservatives accusing the Columbian, as a whole, having a liberal bias. Didn't they just endorse a Romney/Ryan ticket? Presidential politics have never been as far right as this last ticket. Not in my time anyway.

nailingit — May 26, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — May 26, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.

I think much of Madores' poor public behavior can be traced to who he hangs with. I'm assuming he spends most of his time running with the powerful conservative elite set. People become insular and disconnected when surrounding themselves with nothing but like minded people. Combine that with the type of hero worship he receives from the Jo Jo Peterson brand sycophants, and it's a recipe for taking a hard fall, sooner or later.

I think his end game is putting himself in a position to further social conservatism in a more meaningful way.


Anyone ever ask Dave how he feels about Choice, voting rights, women's rights, etc.? Not a written statement on a website, but a sit down with Dave addressing social issues and objectively challenging his stances. Now is a great time for an interview. His words will carry over to a higher calling, and perhaps bite.

Let's have some light shone on this elected conservative. Good or bad. So far we've only had the bad.

Lou B.?

nailingit — May 26, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have discovered a GREAT beer.

It's called "Tangerine" and it's from "Lost Coast Brewery" in California. You can get it at Freddies, Albertsons, Bev-Mo and Wine and More. It's a wheat beer with a tangerine twist. Really tasty and a great Summer drink.

hawkeye — May 26, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

> I have met a few of these evangelical
> zealots who bagged jobs as teachers in
> our public schools. They make no bones
> about this mission to "convert" the
> seven pillars and thereby gain
> control.
> . . .
There is a narcissistic and ethno-centric world
> view in this that is dysfunctional and
> frankly, a little scary.
**manthou — May 26, 2013 at 10:20 a.m**

i, too, find goings-on in schools scary. the professors whose resumes include bombings is a good start. rabid socialists and leftists busily tearing up any pro-USA inclinations they may find in students. using some very alarming techniques from some very radical how-to manuals.

i propose we agree to this: demand our colleges teach REAL KNOWLEDGE. philosophy that comes from B.C. sources; socrates, etc. the beauty of symmetry and rationality found in science and mathmatics.

and how al these things teach us **HOW**, not ***WHAT***, to think.

to paraphrase professor kingsfield (The Paper Chase), " You come in here with a skull full of *mush* and you leave ***thinking!***"

how about it?

DeeLittle — May 26, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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