Open forum, Nov 4-10



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Well, it's Monday.

Everybody set their clocks right?

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A nice little discussion in today's paper on Medicaid and dental care. To me, it shows one more problem with the ACA. Those of us who make a decent income and who have affordable employer or government plans - no problems. Those who live in poverty will get everything for free. But that still leaves a whole lot of people in the lower income bracket who cannot afford all of this. A single person making a modest income in the $30-40K range will receive very little in subsidies to offset the cost of their plan. Add in their costs for housing, transportation, food, clothing, etc - All of which are going up in cost - And this will be completely unaffordable to comply with.

We need the single payer plan, funded by a flat tax rate across the board. Those that can afford to pay more will do so, and everyone will pay something.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yep. And No - I forgot Saturday night, and slept in until 5 yesterday morning. It was a bummer to discover it was really only 4 - Made it like a weekday.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holiday Trivia:

For those of us who celebrate the Jewish holidays (my family is multi-ethnic and composed of persons from diverse religious backgrounds), the first night of Hanukkah falls on Thanksgiving this year.

It last happened in 1888 and according to calculations, it won’t happen again for at least another 70,000 years so this is a once-in-a-lifetime event!

It will be an interesting culinary wedding of traditional tastes.

Sweet potato latkes, anyone?

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

#Thanksgivukkah, for those who tweet and twitter. :)

I found a recipe for onion bagel stuffing. This could be fun, actually. Might as well shake up this traditional menu one time in my life.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Idiocy at its best. Maybe his brain needs a bit of help, who knows. Maybe Madonis can help this fellow....and open his own Jantzen Beach on his side of the river. I mean, is tax avoidance that urgent and necessary? Think about it. What does that tell you? Metropolitan area or not metropolitan area. What is it? You can't have it both ways homie...

This students writes this in the Letters to the Editor today....

"As a student at Washington State University Vancouver, money shortage is an issue and a constant thought in my head. Between rent, food, gas and, of course, tuition, I have little left to spend. For students like me or anyone else short on cash, the tolls will make us less likely to travel to Jantzen Beach or Portland. It will make it more difficult to see family members, shop or go out to dinner across the river. "

Let me be clear to you young man, stay in Vancouver, help the businesses of your community. Assume your tax liability for living and/or studying there. Be responsible for the progress of your own community. That is the least you could do BEFORE you complain about a toll. Like elections have consequences as many belligerent right wing extremist put it, living and/or studying in a sales tax state have consequences also. Don;t you think?

The best part of it young man is that you have a choice!!!!!! What are they? Either you pay there or you pay on the other side. LOL

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy: One of David Madore's daughters (and son-in-law and grandchildren) live in Gresham.

I heard him complain about tolls, way before he was elected, in that it would make it more difficult for family to come visit him. I think this is a reasonable concern, although, in his case, he can afford to gift his family an EZ Pass or two or three. They make great Christmas gifts.

His preferred Eastside bridge option connects to Gresham and the grandkids well, so this is personal, not business with him. :)

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The funny part is that Madonis would write off that tool as "cost of doing business" with family....hahahahah

If they would focus on creating businesses, real businesses in SW Washington instead of walmart and low wages jobs like Pike and company are conspiring to do, the toll would be just a little bother for a great benefit.

They just want to keep on sucking jobs from Portland and destroying Portland roads, clogging the highways and streets, wasting people's time and as a result a significant amount of their time commuting and not creating jobs but a hand full with dirty oil and coal. That will ruin this area permanently especially around the river. Nobody will be able to sleep and the smell of diesel would be unbearable day and day out.

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The hole republicans have dug for themselves keeps getting deeper. And with each passing day, controlling the House seems within reach.

///John Boehner Opposes ENDA, Dealing Blow To Bill's Chances///

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) affirmed on Monday morning that he would oppose a law that would prohibit discrimination against gay and lesbian employees in the workplace, citing the possibility that it would put a financial burden on businesses.

"The Speaker believes this legislation will increase frivolous litigation and cost American jobs, especially small business jobs," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said in a statement.

The remark from Steel is a tough blow for supporters of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

A vote on the legislation is coming Monday in the Senate, and there is growing optimism that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will be able to bypass a filibuster attempt. Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) announced on Monday that he would back ENDA, making him the 60th member to announce support for it.

But even if the bill were to make it through that chamber, it would require passage in the House. And with Boehner coming out in opposition, it seems unlikely that it would even get a vote.

Read more @

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So, I have been thinking about the infamous Carolyn Crain after reading her facebook page. At first I thought that she was a menopause woman trying to give purpose to her life involving herself in community affairs and trying to work for the common good from her "republican perspective". Nothing wrong with that since I don't dislike moderate republicans that can bring a different view to a certain situation. Well, that was a long time ago before the Tea Party, Bush, Cheney, Ryan, Cruz and others got in the mix to ruin everything.

Now, I am totally convinced that Carolyn Crain has two faces, a mild one in front of the cameras and a nasty right wing extremist as the other. Maybe the extremism disease is contagious among them.

Now, I truly dislike her stance, fake demeanor and even her thinking. She is a venomous snake. A Cruella deVille with no money. You now, those "tools" of right wing extremism dressed as tea party fighting against their own interest being in the low percentile of the income scale if that was a measure of anything. Now, she wants to set the rules in County Government. I hope that she loses this election.

We don't need more nut cases locally. Give the people a brake! We need leaders that have been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and all that jazz, not these wannabes that want to get their dirty purchased hands to destroy a county by allowing an extremist minority to control a majority. That is what the right wingers do. They don't have the numbers so they have to "rig" everything to sustain their power over others.

True that! ;)

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

Speaking of bagels... Bakehouse bagels on 192nd are worth the drive. Hope they make it in Vancouver.

And, while I know there are great cooks that post here, does anyone know of a bakery in Vancouver that does great pies? Mine are considered great only because no one else in the family makes them, so nothing to compare them too... a blue ribbon by default. Still, running out of steam being chief cook and bottle washer for holiday dinners. Want to check into a few shortcuts.

jacjak — November 4, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gooooood morning, fellow forum freedom of speech/freedom of expression writers!!! After reading the rest of last week's forum, I felt full even before thinking of eating breakfast...8)))

Pups, I believe I've figured out why your time away was so short this time around. Any time the county's bird cage liner can throw digs in against Madore, Crain or suits their purpose....

And YOU do it for them for FREE!!! It is for free, isn't it???...8P

Roger, I saw your recommendation to roll up the C to use...I'll remember that next time, after starting up the wood stove in the morning...8))

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bagels...Oh how I love bagels. jacjak, I'll have to check out Bakehouse Bagels. Their website states they make them fresh daily. I'm so glad you mentioned them. I haven't had a good bagel in years! Regarding bakeries with great pies...that's a difficult one since I too make mine. I've never had the need to purchase one.

Geez...I guess I'd better go make some breakfast. Later gators.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: There's a relatively new pie shop that opened a few months ago on Grand Ave and Evergreen, just South of Mill Plain. I had a slice when they first opened and thought it was great, but no one will ever accuse me of being picky when it comes to pies.

JohnK — November 4, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What are the chances insurance companies are duping their customers? (rhetorical :) And what are the chances right wing dark money would finance such an effort? (rhetorical 2.0)

Book em' Danno

///If Insurers Are Using Obamacare to Trick Their Customers Into Expensive Plans, They Need a Nice Letter from the FTC///

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening, and it may be happening only with some insurers but not others. But with hundreds of thousands of these letters going out and frightening people into thinking they have no choice but to sign up for a much more expensive plan, it’s definitely something someone should look into. Like, say, giant news organizations with lots of money and resources.

If what Waldman says is true, that is indeed grotesque behavior, and one that the press should be investigating instead of getting their stories from the Republican National Committee.

But there is another thing. It also violates century-old federal law. The press isn’t the only institution that should be looking into this.

Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 USC 45) prohibits ‘‘unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce.’’ This is not an obscure law; it has been enforced for decades, despite conservative objections and more recent attempts by deceptive businesses to have it declared unconstitutional. Any insurer claiming that a consumer must purchase a more expensive policy than what it also offered, and certainly claiming that a consumer must do so because of the Affordable Care Act, is violating the Federal Trade Commission Act. This is not a close call.

When an insurer tells a consumer that his or her rates are going up because of the Affordable Care Act, and that is not the cause of the increase, it violates federal law.

Read more @

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

obamacare simply threw us to the corporate wolves. the Christians stood a better chance with the lions.

mrd — November 4, 2013 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Huge election tomorrow with national implications. Definitely one to watch!

///Republicans struggle with division and big changes in crucial Virginia///

"Virginia has changed and they haven't," former Virginia Rep. Tom Davis, a moderate Republican who represented the D.C. suburbs for 14 years, said of his party's controlling conservative wing.

"They're an anachronism. They're losing young people, they're losing women, they're losing people moving in. You've got to adapt to that."

President Barack Obama took this once-reliable Republican stronghold in 2008 and again in 2012. The biggest political reality the GOP seems yet to come to grasps with: this isn't your grandmother's Virginia.

Buoyed by a growing and increasingly diverse population, especially in the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C., the state's political power has shifted from the more conservative, rural areas of the state. Anchored to its the major population centers, the electorate has become more moderate.

While the Democratic Party has adapted -- and successfully won two back-to-back Senate races with former governors Tim Kaine and Mark Warner -- the state's GOP illustrates the nationwide struggle between pragmatic candidates and Tea Party darlings.


Christopher Newport University professor Quentin Kidd, whose poll released Friday showed McAuliffe with a seven point lead heading into Election Day, warned of further problems for the GOP after Tuesday.

"I think the Republican Party erupts into a civil war 30 minutes after the polls close," Kidd predicts.  "I think the Bolling-wing of the party would feel emboldened enough to say 'We told you so, you idiots. Why do you keep nominating these extremists who are out of step with Virginia?'"

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sunrise Bagels in dowtown Vancouver would be my choice,. Great owners that treat you like friends. Great facilities as well. Big operation behind the curtains....cop hideout....hahahaha


What I barely write is the reflection of my opinions about the status quo everywhere I see it. I do call it. Nobody pays me a dime, nor would I accept a dime. I truly believe that our country, especially our region is in deep doo doo for the middle class. It is so unfair. Having the best scenery in the country pretty much, they want to keep this place near starvation, rural properties without producing, trailers everywhere, junk everywhere. So damn stupid.

I just came back from downtown PDX, the Pearl District. The place is booming for some reason. Vancouver can do it too but some of the people are opposing prosperity for all. I have no idea why. The Madore 4, 8, 12, stooges and all of the above to me makes no sense what so ever. Talk about putting a two feet on the brake. Astonishingly stupid.

These people have no idea how to create a thriving town. An alive an kicking down town. A happening place. It is all small town, strip malls and it sucks. So boring that even the trees die of boredom....LOL

Again, I am disgusted with the status quo and as long as they let me, I will scream my contempt out loud!

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 4, 2013 at 10:16 a.m

Best pies in town besides homemade IMO can be found at Chuck's. You can buy already baked, or buy frozen to bake later.
I buy the frozen to throw in the freezer for a quick dessert when I need it or for get togethers.

ELISI — November 4, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks all you pie lovers. Go to Chucks weekly but did not think of their bakery for anything other than the great crusty breads... Duh.

Buzzing all over town for fav foods... Julie's for scones, Bakehouse for water boiled bagels, Chucks for breads, and now two pie places to try... yum. And yes, it's all worth the gas.

jacjak — November 4, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Larson's on Mill Plain is considered one of the better bakeries. They're in the same mall on E. Mill Plain that Chuck's is - out by the road next to the bank. I've linked to their website - If the prices throw you into sticker shock, you can always follow Elisi's advice and go to Chucks.

Also, Shari's pies aren't bad at all - and are reasonably priced.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks roger, Love Larson's and get all birthday cakes from them. But, they don't do pies. Probably just as well, leaves there more time for their fantastic tortes!

jacjak — November 4, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My college roomie's Mom used to send us a big box of sugar covered jelly doughnuts for Hannukah. Yum. They had a fancy name that I can't remember - sugiyot, or something similar.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Check the website, under Cookies, Pies and More. Maybe they're seasonal or special order. I don't know - I go for the eclairs.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 11:25 a.m.

Ah yes...The Pearl District!!! Didn't you tell me not to throw in the "Portland" card when mentioning what Vancouver could do better....(about a week ago),, pups??? Well...since you threw it in...

Then I ask can you throw in The Pearl as a prime example of your boomtown, pups??? This is the same segment of community that is protesting the move of a homeless crowd from Old Town...up to the Pearl...

What is it they are called? Oh yeah...

The Right 2 Dream 2.

So IF you don't fit in their "CROWD," you don't belong. Nice mixed message you share.

One question for said and I quote "I truly believe that our country, especially our region is in deep doo doo for the middle class. It is so unfair. Having the best scenery in the country pretty much, they want to keep this place near starvation, rural properties without producing, trailers everywhere, junk everywhere. So damn stupid.

I just came back from downtown PDX, the Pearl District. The place is booming for some reason. Vancouver can do it too but some of the people are opposing prosperity for all. I have no idea why. The Madore 4, 8, 12, stooges and all of the above to me makes no sense what so ever. Talk about putting a two feet on the brake. Astonishingly stupid.

These people have no idea how to create a thriving town. An alive an kicking down town. A happening place. It is all small town, strip malls and it sucks. So boring that even the trees die of boredom....LOL

Again, I am disgusted with the status quo and as long as they let me, I will scream my contempt out loud!"

So if you are disgusted with the status quo, then why in God's name are you so supportive of the Pearl District...especially with their blatant opposition TO the proposed move of the R2D2 encampment just a couple blocks from the main drag, Pups??? Shouldn't everyone be granted the right to live in that area regardless of wealth or lack thereof???

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bad puppy,

The main reason people give in LTEs for wanting the light rail component of the CRC is so they can go to Portland and spend money. They want to go to the zoo, to watch the Timbers and Blazers, to Voodoo Doughnuts, to the big overhyped used bookstore (the name escapes me at the moment), to take in a show, to walk the Waterfront and take in the "culture", etc, etc, etc.

Tolling the bridges won't stop money from flowing south. If anything, it will encourage people to make their large dollar purchases on Portland's east side. And if we're to truly believe all those Oregon drivers licenses we see in our stores are really residents of that state, then that money will stay down there too.

As for "sucking jobs from Portland" - two thoughts. First, those jobs don't belong to Portland - they belong to an emplyer who is free to hire whomever he considers the most qualified. Compare the quality of Portland schools to that of Vancouver's and just maybe you'll have an answer as to why the Vancouver resident gets the job so frequently. Second, a whole lot of people in my neighborhood have moved here from Oregon - They happen to prefer our boring, strip mall-centric lifestyle over the "happeningness" of P'Town.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Best pies in town besides homemade IMO can be found at Chuck's. - ELISI — November 4, 2013 at 11:42 a.m

i go to the new chucks regularly. ever tried their deli salmon or the meatloaf? WUNNERFUL.

obamacare simply threw us to the corporate wolves. the Christians stood a better chance with the lions. mrd — November 4, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.

'corporate wolves'....? what's 'corporate' about big government?

wonder if the columbian/lou will ever stop biased reporting....if madore didn't exist, they have to invent him.

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 4, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.

Mind if I add a #3 to your list...

More Portlanders are moving to Vancouver to avoid the higher property taxes and degraded public school system and anywhere anybody can save money and afford a better education these days, they will.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 2:04 p.m

Dee, no I haven't yet. But I have tried their apple/walnut stuffed chicken breast from the meat dept. It's yummmers good!

They also have a "white" honey that is a tad spendy, but ohhhhhh so good on warm bread or rolls.

ELISI — November 4, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 4, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.

So. A main argument against LR seems to be to make it more burdensome for folks to enjoy the amenities across the river so they'll keep their money here?

Don't you think such thinking no only breeds isolationism and a lack of competitiveness, but ensures stagnant growth for our community?

Again, this (unhealthy imo) view of Portland people have here is strange. And it seems to be fostered many times from those earning a living working there.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Part I

Wow. so much whining and sobbing from whinerville so few boxes of kleenex left to share...LOL

You miss the point GD. I go everywhere and observe. That is all I do. Shoot, I spent $170 ($30 bucks cheaper than at a national chain, true fact) in a music toy, shame, shame but is a tool to make some mighty fine sound, parked without paying (pushed my luck, the rent is too high like the New Yorker black candidate, LOL), got the goods and skipped the hell out of there. So in other words, I did a micro second "occupy" stunt and proud of it! Stick it to the Madonis and associates type of man...

What you see there is gentrification GD, long overdue. Why would you put a homeless camp where people invest some mighty bucks to have a nice place to live at. That is outrageous. You don't need a camp out. You need good jobs so these people can get paid well and afford to live in dignity. That is the part of the equation that is missing,

About the Portland people that move to Vancouver. Guilty as charged. I have done it, then got tired of the horrendous subdivision lawn mowing living, then moved to the country outside of Vancouver for 15 years. Found peace and solitude but many aholes that like to play with chainsaws and guns at all hours. I was patient but had it. It wasn't worth it. Peace evaporated. Moved back to another freaking subdivision in Vancouver. Nice house but the same old story. Boooooooooooooooooring..... Then I re-encountered my self with culture in Portland once the Alberta district, Mississippi and other neighborhoods started gentrifying. Non uppity professionals, culturally educated, coffee shops everywhere, sense of community, could have a deep conversation instead of the weather, art, so much music that you have to say no many times, etc. Beautiful old homes in Alameda and throughout NE, nice paint jobs, no cookie cutter crap. No cookie cutter trees. No bull$hit.

So, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and I know which one is way better based on real experience, my age, my needs.

Vancouver has a lot to work on. See, you people are attracting penny pinchers pound fools. Once I saw walmarts, dollar stores, strip malls everywhere, the decline of Vancouver mall, the "box" malls on 164th (ridiculous, it rains here dude, get a roof to make it "an experience!!!!!!!!!!!!").

Anyway, I still have hope that Vancouver will get rid of the minimum wage base with gentrification and become one fine town with a new bridge and light rail.

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Part II

Farms with no another thing. With trailer, mobile homes, old cars rusting next to million dollars homes. Who thought that? Only in Vantucky! Pocket neighborhood galore! Nice besides trash. No real regulation. Trash! Trash and more trash together with trashy people. Lots of apartments and government dependency. Somebody is guilty of that. Pollard? Who knows, but someone is. They ruined Vancouver.

Roger, you are wrong. You have no idea how many good university graduated students bus tables because "some' Vantuckians have taken their jobs. It is the employers fault. They could move to Vancouver but they don't! Why? I would like an answer.

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.

That is what it would appear to be by not wanting the loo of Portland crossing the I-5 bridges but the truth is...we should be banking on improvement of OUR transit system and OUR city's infrastructure rather than leaning on Poor' land to make our own improvements.

Regarding the people of Portland...I would love to see the actual percentage of Clark County residents who have moved from Portland as opposed to the actual percentage of Clark County citizens who now live in Portland.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 1:41 PM: You just listed my favorite reason for making transportation to Portland as onerous as possible: to keep consumer spending on the north bank of the Columbia. I am all for keeping the money here and am not one of those bargain hunters who go to Jantzen Beach or Cascade Station to save a buck or two. Actually, we have to list any merchandise purchased without WA sales tax on our monthly B and O statement for our business, so it is easier to keep the purchases here. Plus it is the right thing to do.

I went to one of those home parties in a big ol' beautiful house in Camas recently where they sell a product (won't mention which one) and I was fried to see so many of the attendees ask to have the merchandise sent to a Portland address to avoid WA sales tax! These are WA residents. The vendor refused to do it, as her butt would be in a sling, too, if caught. People were really miffed at her.

goldie: You are correct about folks moving over here for the fantastic schools and the lower property taxes, not to mention no state income tax. Another draw? Marriage equality and legalized pot for some of the newest arrivals. It is contributing to the clash of cultures war in Clark County politics, too. We'll see how some of that plays out tomorrow.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.

So for the time being, where are these people to go, pups? You do realize some of those people do hold jobs, right? For those who don't or even those that do have a job and cannot make it on their own in the type of lifestyle YOU think they deserve, what do you suggest? What would you do for them right now, to help them get back on their feet and away from the homeless lifestyle??? If not you, then what do you suggest the mayor of Portland or anybody for that matter, do for them? How can they be helped? You said they have a right to live with dignity. They had their own subculture away from mainstream Portland in Old Town, but the city said "Enough is enough"...and they're trying to boot them under bridges...outside of the heart of Pearl and the folks of the Pearl don't want anything to do with them....just shoving them away like the scourge. You are aware of that, right? Some dignity that is, pups.

Nice that you could spend such money on yourself the way you did in the Pearl of what did you do when you walked by a homeless veteran, so hungry and cold...existing in total despair???

Just wonderin'.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3 p.m.

Great points, manthou, especially the fact that people don't pay state income taxes.'s good to read of another person here in Clark County who would rather pay the sales tax here in order to support local business!!! I'm glad I'm not alone.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm looking for Applesauce Donuts. They are cake donuts with light glaze on them or no glaze at all. I used to get them at Albertson's back when they baked their own stuff but not so much now. If anybody has a bead on them, please let me know.... Thanks.

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3 p.m.

Why don't you guys build an electrified fence or a wall to disallow folks going to Portland? McCain can most likely offer some great ideas! :))

This seems to be the town of no. No improvements-no baseball team-no services-no light rail---just say no.....sure plays into the hands of conservative stagnant thinking in my opinion.

Instead of competing with the many amenities Portland has to offer, do you really think limiting access to such is the right answer?

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When I moved here, I made it a point to purchase from our local community, (spent a bundle from a home to appliances to furniture to auto's etc.) and still do commit overall to local buying. I believe in that. But to limit competition by making it onerous for people to travel to another town is nonsense, and just feeds into the stagnancy and backward thinking so many here have.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: You make a good point, as usual, my friend. It is never a good plan to manipulate the masses to lead them toward an outcome agenda. I like the idea of an electrified fence, though. Something Temple Lentz could have fun with. :)

Speaking of Temple, this will make you smile. Love her use of language and double entendre. On the eve of the election, she nails it with this video:

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:20 p.m.

Your comment in part said "...But to limit competition by making it onerous for people to travel to another town is nonsense, and just feeds into the stagnancy and backward thinking so many here have."

Wouldn't you consider expanding a bridge to support one transit agency's light rail improvement (especially when it isn't the agency in our own town) in the manner of 2 1/2 miles to a dead end...including 7-10 years of construction, no potential traffic improvement, implementation of tolls and increasing of taxes onerous as well???

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"It is never a good plan to manipulate the masses to lead them toward an outcome agenda."

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

Tell that to Kitzhaber and the CRC promoters.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

LOL! Temple-The Queen of BI lateral euphemisms. Funny stuff. I hope she pushes herself in to a freeholder position tomorrow.

Temple-if you ever lower yourself to view the basement-best of luck!

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: There is no doubt that the folks promoting light rail want to get us out of our cars and into those trains. Tolls and traffic are the impetus and encouragement.

I don't mind riding those trains, though, as you know. But I can understand how some people in Clark County bristle at the forced change to their lifestyle, pocketbooks, and preferences. Not everyone is happy about it. Everyone should just save the emotional energy they are spending to complain about it, because it might not materialize.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

No. But I don't agree with your premise. We'll let our friends across the river decide. Because any community that had the Fed dollars thrown at us like we did, run away from it, like we did, doesn't deserve to make these types of responsible decisions.

I certainly don't want to re-litigate such a conservative shiny object again. We got the ACA, Obama's birth certificate, Benghazi...why waste time on this? :)

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I think Temple Lentz is going to be a Freeholder. Here are my 3rd District predictions: Pat Jollota, Jim Moeller, Jim Mains, Temple Lentz, and Val Ogden.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That was a great one Manthou, Temple Lentz at times shines! :))))


I don't know how you figure that tax thingy. State tax is deducted from federal last time I checked. So Peter and Paul are not a nice couple I say, they screw us one way or the other in this tax orgy. Dollars and cents if you account the time and the risk plus gas costs, I think you come up ahead. Incidently, a property I have in Vancouver appreciated (tax wise) 30%. Are you freaking kidding me? With the six year revaluation cycle something happened there. There is no way in hell that holds true. It is all a tax calculation scheme to pay for the rise in services costs. Who says that there is no inflation per se.

I would dare anyone to add the dollars and cents and prove to me that you really save money living in Vancouver after all is said and done. I never saved a dime.

The schools. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? When my daughter was going to school at Skyview years ago, I had to pay through the nose to have her get her highschool education at St. Marys in Downtown PDX. Vancouver schools don't do and that was supposed to be the high tech school of Vancouver, one of the best, puke puke. Vancouver schools are over rated. Drugs galore, bullying, gangs too. The best schools are smaller sized private schools. Vancouver schools are completely over crowded and the quality is deteriorating fast.

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:39 p.m.

Manthou, you are so sweet about this subject. So's refreshing. Part of the problem that exists, you have stated, possibly without realizing it. It is our freedom to move out and about in any way we choose...and for us to be forced like sardines into tin cans isn't a freedom I care to partake. It should be a choice, not a mandatory means. Changes in the automotive industry is definitely a positive, but forcing social changes upon us is not.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.

Actually, we are not letting Oregon do anything. The C-Tran Board of Directors who made the decision without voter approval are the sell outs, not the people.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 3:45 p.m.

3 Bedroom, 1 bath...1040 sq. ft. home on oversized lot (10,000 sq. ft.)

Tigard, OR. annual property taxes $2422 (Zillow)
Rockwood, OR. annual property taxes $2147 (Zillow)
Vancouver, WA. annual property taxes $1,862 (Zillow)

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, pups...the Rockwood and Vancouver homes were directly across the river from each other.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.

Considering the alternatives of Crain-Peterson-Chavez-Yancey-Higdon..District 3 has the potential to become the Barnum & Bailey of this Freeholder election.

I have to believe calm heads will prevail and your selections will come to pass. If not..

..we won't have to worry about traveling to Portland to see a circus. It'll be in our backyard.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So for $300 or $400 bucks difference in property taxes, you would drive year round to a job an hour or so away possibly and many times bumper to bumper risking your life?

You are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nuts! Loco!!!!!!!!!!!!

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"State tax is deducted from federal last time I checked. "

Maybe you need to explain a bit further.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nov 4 ballot return percentage: nearly 19%

How does Greg Kimsey think we are going to get another 21% in by the end of the day tomorrow? We might reach 25%, but not the 40% he is predicting.

About 50,000 people are going to decide this election.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Boy Nail your post at 4:00 was thought provoking. I can't imagine Yancy Crain ,Peterson or Higdon doing anything of use for the county. The other guy I don't know about. It looks like district 3 didn't have much to offer.

timerick — November 4, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 4 p.m.

Since you brought up the property tax thing, I did a comparison...

Do you honestly think the workers have a choice? Why move to Portland? Why increase crowding? What benefit would that be? Are you a cluster development fanatic? Not everybody wants to live in matchbox condo developments.

If all who live in Clark County and have to work in Portland could find a comparable job here in Clark County, do you think they'd stay around in Portland?

I'd doubt it.

BTW, those pocket neighborhoods...I agree with you. It's poor planning and it's usually by developers based in...guess where....


And they're doing it to push out the homes with larger lots so they can fill in more cluster homes...more pocket neighborhoods. Portland on the other hand, is running out of space. All their pocket neighborhoods have combined and become one massive eyesore. Maybe YOU like all the overhead power lines and eyesores of city living, but not everybody does.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.

"Manthou, you are so sweet about this subject. So's refreshing. Part of the problem that exists, you have stated, possibly without realizing it."

Why the backhanded compliments? Isn't the pup fulfilling your needs?

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.

Careful of the medical stockings, I've heard the friction can be abrasive. :))

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 4, 2013 at 4:15 p.m.

I like manthou`s picks. Although I wish professional politicians were barred from participating.

Temple would not only bring a sharp mind to the table, but provide some levity as well. We could all use some of that humor for sure.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: District 3 has a lot of good choices, not just the ones listed by nailingit. :)

hawkeye, langenthal or pfaffmachine: Steve Stuart took down one of his FB posts yesterday and archived it. I missed the brouhaha over it. Did any of you see what it was about?
What was the discussion that he took down?

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 4:17 p.m.

What do you mean, backhanded compliments? I like what Manthou has to say and she's one of the few who doesn't resort to insults...and wants to discuss the issue. She's not afraid to state her opinion, the same as me. Are you saying she isn't a sweet person? Are you saying she isn't being sweet about it when discussing the subject? Do I not have the right to share in discussion with someone other than the pups? C'mon, nails...don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Trolls are shunned here in the basement.

Oh I get it...I didn't take note of your comment at 3:20 p.m. right away. Okay nails, I'm glad to read that someone other than manthou and I don't cross the river to make purchases. Now...I hope you no longer feel left out...8))

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I looked for it also. I think it was a vote he wanted to either keep Robert Dean as a friend or to defriend him.

timerick — November 4, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.

Boy, have I forgotten about those scrumptious donuts. That's way before they loaded everything up with preservatives and taste enhancers.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

It was a poll regarding Robert Dean. Apparently, he gives Steve a bad time on his posts so Steve wanted to know if he should ban Dean or not. I told him if he did he would be no better than Madore. I urged him to leave it along and just ignore Dean the best he can.

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

Just crazy stuff full of nonsense. Always re-directing a conversation to escape culpability. As I've stated many a time, feel free to leave me out. (sigh, I should have known better)

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Oh, dear. Taking a public poll like that is gang up mentality. Glad he took your good advice. Sounds like others agreed. Even when this election is over, the stakes may be even higher, depending on who wins.

I always thought that social media and politicians/public figures should be a cautious partnership.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.

I mention that due to the variable tolling, where the commuter gets soaked. The great majority of the people calling for light rail are mentioning how it will save them time commuting; rather, they're mentioning their social life. That, as with our young LTE writer puppy mentioned, is a matter of choice. We who work there have little or no real choice (barring being unemployed) - I don't see where it's our responsibility to make their life easier.

My "we/they" with Portland addresses the need some have to turn us into a clone of that town. Based on the outward growth pattern here in Clark, I'd say most people prefer the suburban lifestyle. One might also note a similar pattern exists across the river - growth there is all outward too. Seems not all that many people want to live in high rise apartments, despite the fact that the urban planners here have decided that model is best.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.

Sorry - whether we like it or not, we're a capitalist nation. That means those jobs belong to the employer. If he/she elects to hire a Vantuckian, that's a choice that person gets to make. The college grad busing tables and living in Portland has no claim to the job. And if that person is searching and remains unsuccessful, then perhaps the fix is to get trained in something an employer considers useful.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.,

That girl watches too much Jon Stewart. Hilarious!

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Centurylink says no video available. Perhaps that was a subscriber service?

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 4, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.

I guess I don't view it as a we/they-either/or situation. It's possible to have the best of both worlds in this situation.

Folks that want to sprawl can sprawl. People that want to high rise (a high rise in Vancouver is what-five or six stories?) can high rise if we plan for it.

Limited transportation options=isolation=lack of competition=decreased revenue=stagnation. imo.

I suppose we could never have our own VooDoo doughnuts, local conservatives would protest satanic offerings. We had a chance for a sports team and we know what happened to that. As far as a zoo is concerned, that might fly. Combine stray pet storage with Madore cost saving video's and people would be entertained for hours on end.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, nails, timerick,

You do realize districts 1 will most likely more than balance your district 3 slate? District 2 is where the rubber meets the road.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:20 p.m

BTW roger-Best of luck with tomorrow's election. I hope you're planning a results/victory party in the basement.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: yes, indeed. I think there will be a well-rounded group elected, actually. District 1 is the most conservative. District 3 is the most liberal. Your District will provide the balance.

Good luck and thank you for taking the initiative to put your name on the ballot.

hawkeye @ 5:05 pm: No video. Are you talking about the theory that a SS agent accidentally killed JFK? Certainly plausible. I had never heard that one before.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 5:05 p.m.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 5:25 p.m.

Could it be this?

-Belief In JFK Assassination Conspiracy Slipping, Poll Finds-

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We love you anyway GD, with all your flaws and truth bending talents even your clueless stances...LOL Just kidding. Nobody is perfect, not even me. Hahahahaha

You are right about 1/5 of the time and that is good enough for me....LOL

nicepuppy — November 4, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

CBS News is on a Kennedy kick - there's also a review of a book that says Marilyn called Jackie and said JFK was going to marry her. Seems Jackie was quite aware of JFK's infidelities - sounds like Hill is her a generation later.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye --- I visited the Donut Nook this afternoon to see if they had your donuts. They have made them before but aren't right now. They provide the donuts for QVC. QVC special orders them occasionally and then Donut Nook has them.

Tonight they are making Pumpkin Spice donuts.

langenthal — November 4, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- I believe timerick and hawkeye have it right regarding Stuart on FB.

I'm pulling for Nathan Schlicher to win state senate race over Jan Angel in WA 26th District. She is chair of WA chapter of ALEC.

langenthal — November 4, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie- I echo the cat @ 5:46 with olive branch offerings. (although I found his accuracy rate to be a bit inflated:)

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Angel is pretty popular in that neighborhood - she beat Schlicher by 9 percentage points in the primary. Lot's of money going into that race too, including over a million to Schlicher from conservation groups. Both have their special interests. That race will decide whether the Dem Party has a chance of taking the Senate back next year - If Angel wins, then they go down by three.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous."

roger — November 4, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm wondering what our local loco conservatives will call one-term-timmy after tomorrow. Two-term-timmy wouldn't wash, it'll speak of their worst fears, as would anything respectful.

Friar Leavitt? two-term-worm? Can't wait to see!

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry guys, I can't get the link to work either. It was a story on FOX (yes, I know) more of an interview with this guy that wrote a book explaining that Lyndon Johnson was behind the Kennedy assassination. He had some proof, a thumbprint of a guy in the book depository at the same time that was connected to Johnson and had been convicted of murder in the past. He was pretty convincing.

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. gave me some thinkin' material...8)))

How 'bout....Tim the, that one's taken.
Or maybe....The night Vancouver died...naw, sounds too much like a song by Paper Lace.'s one...The Sellout! Yeah, that one fits!!!

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 4, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.
WOW!, Thanks for checking.

Did you get some Pumpkin ones? Those are pretty good too.

Maybe I can find them in Vegas, they have Dunkin down there.

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Never fear - I'm sure they'll come up with something. After reading your comment, I went to check and see if Lew Waters had any new names. He seems to be narrowing in on some variation of sleazy. Whether that's too harsh for the faithful remains to be seen.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 4, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.


goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

How about ... May-or, may not

Don't get me wrong, I like Tim, I think he's the best choice for the job given the choices.

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7 p.m.

potatoes, patatas. I wouldn't expect you or anybody else to agree with what I have to say...not even 1 in 10 times, nails. It's all good.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie we have wanted a vote for a long time. How ever it turns out is what we will have to live with. Someone always has to be a loser. I just wish more people would vote. But I think manthou is right people just don't care. But then they will sure like to bitch.

timerick — November 4, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

Tim the Tool sounds very manly & complimentary. Dick Sohn would be jealous, and Lew would be envious. So yeah, that won't fly.

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

To all you fans of our current mayor -

I'm still waiting to see a list of the current mayor's accomplishments...other than...let's say....

Misleading voters; changing his tune regarding tolling...

Deciding when it is appropriate to recuse himself from a vote as long as it helps his cause...

As Board of Director member of C-Tran at mayor status, he took, he ELIMINATED voter rights by jumping ahead of the game to vote on allowing TriMet to have complete control of anything MAX without allowing all members to see the contractual obligations presented not 5 minutes before the forced vote. Now all we have to show for it are advisory votes???

Yeah...I'm still waiting for what good he's done for our city. Oh wait...he got a better office for himself and his staff. Let's see...what else has he done??? Oh yeah...he "thought" of running against Rep. Herrera-Beutler...but that fizzled. Hmm..

any other accomplishments??? It's been about 2 weeks and I still haven't seen a single solitary positive comment other than that he's a nice guy...and personable...

and that wasn't even on the forum!!!

So how 'bout it, folks? Anything???

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 4, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

Tim, the problem is...we should have a right to a vote that sticks to the program, not something just to pacify the voters. When we vote, it should be a decisive vote with no strings attached. It should be a binding decision. It ticks me off to no end that all we get is such a useless vote.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 4, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. far as I'm concerned, your suggestion befits his current tenure as mayor. At least Pollard DID something as mayor.

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lololol...even Wikipedia doesn't have anything other than his fooling of the people into thinking he was supporting the majority viewpoint regarding tolls (referring to our current mayor).

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 7:41 p.m.

oh He's a tool, alright!!!


That's it for me this evening! I'll be back for more with you ladies and fellas tomorrow!!! Have a good one!

goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal and roger: That Kitsap seat is going to be a game changer, with serious consequences for a transportation and environmental budget. The following is an excerpt from Crosscut contributors that is a good summary of the significance of this race, probably the most important in the state:

Kitsap state Senate seat

What you should know:

We know. A state Senate race on the Kitsap Peninsula: zzzzzzzzz. But wait: This race could shift the balance of power in Olympia for years to come. Democrat Nathan Schlicher holds the 26th District seat, having been appointed to fill the vacancy created when his Democratic predecessor, Derek Kilmer, was elected to the Show (er, the U.S. Congress). But popular Republican state Rep. Jan Angel is mounting a powerful challenge.

Why you should care:

As goes the 26th, so goes control of the state Senate. A Republican win expands the GOP's majority coalition margin from one vote to a putsch-proof 26-23, which could doom Gov. Jay Inslee's efforts to push transportation and environmental legislation. A Schlicher (Democratic) victory might send a signal to the Republican-dominated Majority Coalition Caucus that it needs to move on transportation or the environment, instead of just standing for no tax increases.

manthou — November 4, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You can't make this stuff up. I have a feeling they're not Obama supporters. :)

///Potential Senate candidate David Barton explains how abortion caused climate change///

-"We opened a door that lost God's protection over our environment," said the Christian historian-

The disastrous effects of global warming are most certainly man-made, said Christian historian David Barton. No, not because we’ve been burning fossil fuels. It’s because God is mad at us. And no, he’s not mad us for burning fossil fuels. All this “climate stuff that we can’t explain,” Barton explained in a conversation with televangelist Kenneth Copeland, is God’s judgment wrought down on us for, among other things, abortion.

Together, the two worked out this basic sequence of events to explain their alternative theory of climate change:

1. America voted in politicians who support abortion rights.

2. In so doing, we “opened the door to the curse,” which includes floods, tornadoes, murder and pedophilia.

Back in the days of early America, Barton explained, if crazy weather was happening, the first thing leaders would do is “call for a national day of repentance, humiliation, fasting and prayer … and today we’re saying, ‘Oh no, it’s global warming.’”

In reality, he said, “We opened a door that lost God’s protection over our environment and that’s our choice.”

Barton, who according to Mother Jones believes America should be governed by biblical law, is currently being pushed by Glenn Beck, among others, to challenge John Cornyn, R-Texas, for his Senate seat. From this, we can assume that he already has an updated climate plan in the works.

Watch this two-minute cut of Barton and Copeland’s conversation, courtesy of Right Wing Watch:

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So how 'bout it, folks? Anything??? goldenoldie — November 4, 2013 at 7:50 p.m

ummm.... he doesn't lie as much as obama?

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. Actually several people, myself included, responded to GO's challenge to name a few of Leavitt's accomplishments as Mayor. The two of you may not have liked the answers, but it's incorrect to claim there were responses.

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Dee, what did you want him to do?

Jump in with both feet like Madore and screw up the whole city? I don't live in Vancouver but I appreciate a Mayor NOT screwing things up like they did in Portland the last few years. You don't always have to make huge plans or change things around.

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the day ***

So, Mad-onis insists on being the press releaser of Clark County business. Isn't that odd? Shouldn't that be like an official press release to be distributed to all citizens of the County, not just visitors of his facebook page? Someone needs to reign in the self-appointed King of Stooges.

Second, nice try but not good enough. Now you can put the spot light to County expenses and who gets the juicy checks from our wallets. Not good enough. What does it mean to me that you paid $3,000 a week for consulting services if you can not mine the data down to the detail to include the description of the services, what project as it correlates to a particular budget item and so on. As is, it is impossible to find out the truth and nothing but. You can hide all sort of things in a total amount. If you want to "sanitize" with sunshine light County numbers, go all the way with the might of a grizzly bear instead of a chihuahua, all noise no beef.

Third, it is election day. I hope Mad-onis learns a lesson. I still think that voting with the tools available today, ought to be mandatory to have a true democracy. To be fair one problem I see is the lower denominator IQ levels in the citizenry that may not be able to comprehend an issue due to tricky wording or plain illiteracy.

Fourth, If Mad-onis candidates win, then accept that the County has been hijacked by an extremist religious minority and react accordingly. If Mad-onis candidates do not win, he ought to show Benton the door and all his cronies ought to let progress shine.

GD, Leavitt is sharper than Turlay, Turlay is a "tool" that does not represent the future. He most likely is for dirty oil and coal. A step that we will regret forever. Leavitts accomplishments are obvious, Turlays are not. What has he done but gone bankrupt?

Carolyn Crain? Need I say more? What a wacko!

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Glad to see Vancouver City Council approving the waterfront park development last night. Some good comments from all councilors. Most striking, for me, came from Jeanne Stewart: she wants the 20 year time frame to be sped up! She is our usual "Whoa, slow down" gal. She's probably thinking, like I am, "I'll be too darn old to enjoy it." A beautiful waterfront park will make it easier to attract potential developers, too.

Carolyn Crain wants plenty of bathrooms there (reasonable request) and plenty of parking (ain't gonna happen: take public transportation or walk). She boldly accused Tim Leavitt of having a private interest in a public parking business (huh?) and that he stands to gain if there are no parking spaces at the waterfront. Stay tuned. This is juicy. Carolyn should seriously consider opening up her own legal investigation service. She'll have to be certified, though. :)

Vancouver enjoys 21 miles of Columbia River waterfront! I did not realize it was so extensive.

Jeanne Stewart also praised the firefighters' efforts on their coat collection program. She spent a great deal of time in a pointed praise of these public servants. Between the lines she was saying, "even if you turned your back on me and endorsed my opponent, I will give you a big, public pat-on-the-back." It was an attempt to shame them in a funny sort of way through the praise. I truly do not believe she expects to win tonight. I am not sure she wants to.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A must read for everyone that cares about the area they live in especially the ones promoting dirty oil and coal coming to this area.

If I had my way, I would show the door to all Port of Vancouver executives and transform that Port in a first class port of value added goods. There is where the money is not in 4.6 lousy million bucks a year for 10 years and the potential of a catastrophic environmental disaster, noise and the stink!

What are those idiots thinking? 4.6 lousy bucks a year for prime port real estate. We can't be that dumb! I refuse to accept that we are that dumb!

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 6:25 a.m.

Care to refresh my mind regarding the "list" of Vancouver's mayor's accomplishments??? I guess they were so minimal, I didn't take notice to them.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""GD, Leavitt is sharper than Turlay, Turlay is a "tool" that does not represent the future. He most likely is for dirty oil and coal. A step that we will regret forever. Leavitts accomplishments are obvious, Turlays are not. What has he done but gone bankrupt?"""


That bankruptcy was a business partnership and one member bailed on the other, forcing Turlay into that situation...and that was many years ago, pups. People learn and move on...AS TURLAY DID!!! He's doing something right. He was voted into his position...or did you forget that???

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK, I'm headed out to deliver my ballot to the box but am anxiously awaiting the accomplishments you claim our mayor has done. Hopefully those accomplishments actually did some good for the people.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift @ 7:54 am: Yeah. Caught that last night. Most excellent whistleblower action in a long time. Consumers need to be so cautious about accepting what big pharma tries to feed us.

I have had some students gain 30 pounds in one month on that drug. Heartbreaking. Truly, the side effects are sometimes worse than the symptoms the drug is supposed to treat. We need to find other solutions. Sometimes the drug is given to benefit the caregivers' convenience more than the patient.

Our health is our greatest asset and being an informed, skeptical consumer, especially on behalf of our most vulnerable (children and elderly), is essential.

I hope more Big Pharma giants are exposed through similar challenges.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You can't be that dense. Remember the building they got for a few dimes on the dollar? Remember staying afloat despite a significant drop on income due to economic turmoil?

I am not that familiar with the city but that is due to my ignorance not because they have done nothing. The record is there to research for you.

Can you tell me what Turlay has done? Seriously. I would like to know. Someone said that he was a businessman. What type of business? Gross sales per year? Location? Number of employees? Company longevity? Who is Turlay? Just a nice guy on Madore's payroll and against the CRC and Lightrail? IMO not good enough! Too old! Straight to the nursing hoe with Mielke please...

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.

I saw the waterfront article when it first appeared last night. I was looking forward to seeing the comments you spoke of and now can't find the article. A Google search brought it up but with limited comments. I'd think this story would be front and center. It's most likely me, but do you have a link with said comments?

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Best way to review the comments is to watch the 11/4/2013 city council meeting on CVTV. It is not posted yet for on-demand, but will be re-played tomorrow on Channel 23 at 9:00 am.

Maybe the Columbian is fine-tuning or updating the article? Stephanie Rice is out of town, I think and Erik Hidle was covering for her last night? Not sure if I have that right.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, nail, here you go:

No mention of Carolyn's allegations because they are just that at this point. Remember, she thinks I and my fellow property owners on E 17th Street are in deep mourning agony over the "stealing" of land for potential light rail on that street. She did not check with me before she spoke for me. She's a shoot-first-clean-up-the-mess-later-maybe kinda gal…..

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks manthou. One word for Carolyn-


nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know who's been following this story about Rand Paul and accusations of plagiarism, but it's growing and growing. Rand's only defense seems to be playing the victim card. >>>

///Sections Of Rand Paul’s Op-Ed On Drug Sentencing Plagiarized From Article Week Earlier///

-Portions of the Kentucky senator’s op-ed in The Washington Times appear to be copied word-for-word from an article published a week earlier.-,0,1014205.story#axzz2jn5ieio7

And to top it off, Rand Paul doesn't seem to understand what plagiarism is! Amazing stuff from a sitting US Senator with aspirations to become President. Rand seems to have an intellectual deficit disorder that's becoming front & center news.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

golden oldie — November 5, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. Your claim that nobody responded to your challenge to list the Mayor's accomplishments is incorrect as shown by two of the several responses quoted below. Admittedly the listings of accomplishments are incomplete and should have credited the leadership role he's played in attracting well qualified and non-partisan senior level staffing, the influx of major employers, (Peace Health, Integra, etc.) the Top 100 livable city designation, and a host of others including last night's adoption of the Waterfront Park plan.

goldenoldie @ 6:43: You asked what Mayor Leavitt who, in addition to a pretty good track record of creating jobs as a private sector manager, has done for the Community. One thing that impressed me was a certificate of appreciation he recently received from one of the Clark County's Veterans group for the 28+ Veterans events he's attended since becoming Mayor. You can nitpick as to whether those are on the clock or part of the job, but his attendance is voluntary and deeply appreciated.
JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.

golden oldie: ---------- 
As to what he's done as Mayor, I'd say he's done a good job of attracting major employers to Vancouver, certainly City Hall has become more citizen friendly, responsive, efficient, and unlike Clark Co, remarkably free of scandals and partisan favoritism.
JohnK — October 19, 2013 at 7:55 a.m.

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think DEE is right. Timmy hasn't lied as much as Obama and Obama won re election. I just couldn't vote for Turdy... The only two times I saw him speak, well lets just say he didn't ring my bell with any substance... And the whole ex partner and stuff, you just can't make that up and throw it under the rug... I'm thinking Two time Timmy wins close to 55% of the vote.. It is a sad day when we only have 1 in 5 voting but 4in 5 Bitching....I'm thinking the youngters 35 and under just don't really give a crap about these types of elections.. They want to say I voted in the Big one... Heck if you asked 1-10 voters what's even on the ballot they wouldn't or couldn't remember..

vanwadreamer — November 5, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Republicans fascination with States rights (when they're not in power) seems to be put on hold. The Fed is great when they want it to do their bidding. Always good to remember-No President/Administration have produced excessive spending & created fewer jobs in modern times (or any other?) like the Reagan & Dubya admins. Wake up Republicans! (On second thought-just go back to Fox/penning your criticisms/& sleep-we're the better for it)

///Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul Hope To Tack Right-To-Work Law Onto Employment Non-Discrimination Act///

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On my soapbox:

Glad to see Nicholas Kristof adding his gravitas and opinion to the human sex trafficking issue in our region. This is one political issue that I hope can unite us all. Clark County is ground zero with one form of human trafficking business and it is only going to grow when a new Oregon law takes effect at the first of the year.

We should be concerned and alert about the proliferation of so-called "Asian foot massage" or "Oriental Foot Parlors", which often are a front for human trafficking. These places are colloquially named "rub and tug" parlors. They are advertised on Craig's List and Backpage and offer "table showers" and sometimes "semi-truck parking" and are usually cash-only. The young women who work there are often doing so against their will. They are brought over to the US with the promise of a job and they find themselves virtually enslaved, servicing men, for an extra, non-advertised tip, and operate 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Some are opening up in Clark County residential neighborhoods. We have one in a former residential triplex.

Oregon wisely passed a very restrictive law against these businesses, which takes effect on 1/1/2014 (SB 347), and requires the business itself to be licensed, not just the so-called technicians (which most aren't). Washington's law, ESB 6103, took effect 7/1/2013, but only requires state certification for persons engaged in reflexology. It does not require the business to be licensed. It allows surprise visits of these businesses by DOH, but they only take complaints from actual customers (as if that is going to happen).

Many people think that Clark County will be seeing a proliferation of these human trafficking parlors and are already seeing it, due to this restrictive law which will soon take effect across the Columbia.

If it were just a matter of two consenting adults…….but these businesses are not. Landlords who rent to "Asian" massage parlors may be supporting human trafficking. People who visit them, well, they are johns who are supporting enslavement and abuse.

Off my soapbox.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.

Sex trafficking, as well as other activities in which people are forced into labor is terribly wrong, and I think most would agree with this. But what is the answer?

Government trying to control what many would deem as vice problems is an abject failure. Such as marijuana-alcohol-drug-prostitution-Mayor Bloomberg "coke" prohibitions etc.

Would a common sense approach like legalizing prostitution (such as is common in many 1st world countries) be the answer?

I don't attend these places, and did not when I was overseas, just to be clear, I have no dog in this fight. Just trying to approach this subject in what in my view, would benefit America (Washington as well) long term.

Legalize it-tax it-regulate it and make sure the industry working men & women have their human rights honored front and center. I think it would do much to stem the exploitive nature of this industry, and certainly help to legitimize the oldest profession in the world.

Now there's an initiative I could truly 'get behind'. :)

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I forget what program I was watching a few weeks ago, (maybe history channel) but they were displaying some 60's pop art. The program showed a painting of a woman lying on her back with her breasts exposed and her throat slashed. The program blurred out her breast, but showed her throat injury in full color.

It brought to mind there is something seriously wrong with American culture. We embrace extreme violence, yet shun and censor anything that has to do with human nudity. Until we get this fixed, the exploitive nature of the sex industry and related enterprises will continue to be more than a problem.

Meanwhile, even though the majority of Americans embrace reasonable gun control regulation............................

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I am no prude and agree with you that violence is far better tolerated in our society than consensual, wide-varietal sex. Two consenting adults and all. No children involved. No non-consenting adults.

I really do not want young women being enslaved in these businesses and that is what is happening. I am not being hyperbolic. Most are working against their will and very dependent upon their employers for food, clothing, housing.

We are working, as a community, on how to protect these "slaves." No easy answers, but educating landlords and the public is the first big step.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore is doing another end-run against legal counsel today. He has changed their version of his "revised" resoltuion (which was factual) and introduced a new one that they have not yet seen.

Even Mielke is hesitant. Does not want libelous accusations read into the record.

Glad to see Mielke speak up. Incredible to see this play out. Watch it on a re-run if you are missing it live.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- From your past posts I know you're no prude, and that you wish to approach this issue pragmatically. With regards to this, I'm all for tougher laws and would encourage the same also.

I'm just looking at this long term. What works and what doesn't. We can have all the laws in the world and it won't change a thing overall. As you noted, Oregon's latest attempt will just push more sex trafficking to our side. No reduction in crime, no change in victimization, just displacing it.

In the eighties, Vegas got a new Sheriff in town who vied to clean up all the hookers lining the the Strip and downtown streets. He did just that. But all it did was to push our ladies of the evening into hotels and bars where people who had no intention of engaging such were engaged regularly. Kids in lobby's, the guy catching a quick drink at the bar, etc.

I think this is a subject we need to embrace and appreciate your dialoguing about it.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Watching. How can he have a third one after legal already prepared one? [That question has no answer.] Yeah, Mielke.

"It's a little nebulous at this point." Stuart.

langenthal — November 5, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:09 a.m

It is Maddow that doesn't understand what "plagiarism" is. Paul used very small parts of a public domain summary, and claimed no credit, that doesn't qualify as plagiarism, and no United States civil or criminal code defines it as such. This is just Maddow going off of the deep end again, nothing to see here, move along.

frobert — November 5, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 8:14 a.m., JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.

Pups, if you want to continue the discussion, please leave out the insults. thanks. BTW, it was the entire city council's decision to purchase the Columbian building, not just Mayor Leavitt. He can indulge in the pomp and circumstance of being the one in the mayor's seat. Oh...and those know, the ones which hours were cut (including wages)...and the fact that the weeds on any main city roadway were chest high this year, adding to the fact that it made the city look dingy and unkempt. So go ahead again...tell me why he's the better choice. Oh yeah...because Turley's a tool. That's your words, not mine.

JohnK, you speak of Tim Leavitt with a good track record of creating jobs in the private sector. Care to share just where those jobs were and with whom??? And what big businesses did he bring to Vancouver??? Regarding his acceptance of a certificate of appreciation from the Community Military Appreciation Committee...good for him, even though it was presented THREE WEEKS before election. Tell me how that wasn't a political move, JohnK. I'm not dissing on him for showing his face for a couple of minutes at each gathering, then leaving...I'm just saying it's all about timing. He pulled it once with the election that got him his seat...and you know the old saying..."fool me once"!!!

Oh how soon we forget, especially when the campaign is in full swing!!! Maybe a peek into the past and evaluation of his promises would be in store here. Did he fulfill his promises?

All I'm asking is actual facts...not assumptions or statements. I want to see the facts behind the statements. Still waiting.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Way back when...David Madore petitioned for more transparent government. Seems like he's fulfilled one of his promises:

SHAME ON HIM FOR DOING WHAT THE PEOPLE HIRED HIM TO DO!!! What is this world coming to??? (sarcastic undertones of course)

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A young lady (missed the name) just properly raked Madore over the coals..Madore and Meilke must have an agreement that Meilke handle Madore criticisms. Pike is lecturing and scolding-God help us!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: Her name is Sunrise O'Mahoney.

Liz Pike: Glad Steve S is telling Liz that civility goes both ways. Madore's FB posts are rampant with incivility and he encourages it with his silence.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

lololol...what a joke!!! Like that's going to improve anything!

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The more I watch Commish Stuart over time, the more I realize this guy is truly a gem in our local political structure. If he were to seek higher office I would certainly support him.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Liz Pike, you are dumb as a rock.

People would be civil if they had not been stepped on by cronyism ya bubble living dummy!

Madore got his ass kicked one more time for changing the resolution and doing a vetting process PRIOR to presenting it.

Pike was set straight by the Democratic canvasser.

Madore is wasting time! Get the foot of the breaks ya dumb arse and take that illiterate farmer with ya. Stuart set him straight about the funding! Ha!

What a circus!

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stuart-"That was a long sermon". LOL

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh love it, Stuart referenced RUSH!

jacjak — November 5, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's lecture is waaaaaay tooooo loooooooong at the end of a long-winded meeting. The listener's brain shuts off after the first few sentences.

We are up to nearly 24% ballot returns now. More, I assume, will come in by the end of the day. Will we get to 40%?

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Correction Madonis did not do any vetting and is wasting time as a speaker callled him to his attention. Good for that speaker.


Weren't you supposed to come up with Turley's company/executive record? Get to work girl...

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Loved - "temper tantrum on paper". Appreciated Liz Campbell [?] speaking up for LD 18. Much respect for Stuart and the attorney. Attorney has to spend more time with DM. Ugh.

DM is vice chair of SWBH now.

Now I'm off to the PO to pick up my ballot & go to my polling place and vote.

langenthal — November 5, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. I don't have to do anything. I asked a direct question as to what our current mayor has done to improve our city and all he's done is take credit for the move into the county birdcage liner's failure, cause weeds to grow chest high, cut wages (and most likely benefits), deceive the voters in order to get elected and receive a last-minute certificate of appreciation for showing his mug at veteran's events (unless there's more to the story that isn't being told).

I asked for information...for FACTS and all I get is your feeble attempts to sway my attention away from the direct question. So no, pups...I'm not going to research anything for you. In fact, you have NOTHING to gain OR lose from this election...especially since you are an OREGONIAN, not a WASHINGTONIAN and you're certainly NOT a Clark County or City of Vancouver resident.

Nice try, pups.

I bet it just burns the heck out of you that you have the inability to cast a vote here in Vancouver!!!

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice try GD but I influence directly 2 votes. Not much, just two votes. Regarding Turlay's accomplishments as an executive, it surprises me you can't come up with one. I know you are wasting your vote on him, your right to be stupid. What can I say? Not meant as an insult, I just could not find a better word...hahahaha2

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.

Looks like Rand Paul's plagiarism is in multiples. He's blaming 'staff' but says no one will be fired. He also says some of the sloppiness is due to "the hectic life of a senator in high demand."

jacjak — November 5, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 12:22 PM: Liz Campbell is one of those pound-the-pavement activists and I very much appreciate her hard work. I have had the pleasure of chatting with her at numerous events. She is usually so mild and I could tell how upset she was with Liz Pike's assertion that 97% of the 18th LD is against the CRC. Of course, Pike did not produce any data, just her opinion, which, of course, is biased. :)

I noticed Liz has toned down her hair color and it is less brassy and more softly highlighted. Hmmmm. Could this be in response to Temple's favorite suffix for her: Liz Pike - R- Clairol?

Also noticed that PA Chris Horne is not around much anymore for the Commissioners. Could it be that he asked for relief? Are they trying to get Madore less attached to him and used to others? Bronson Potter resigned after the Benton hire and he was inundated formal complaints. Tony Golik is going to want to preserve the talented staff he has left.

Did you catch Mielke's mantra: We did not violate Clark County hiring practices- at the end of the meeting? He is parroting what the attorneys have told him is the hard line they will take on the Largent tort claim. Stuart then chimed in: "We do not discuss current litigation" as a warning to Mielke: shut your pie hole.

We'll watch what Madore does as Vice Chair of SWBH. He is working his way up the food chain there, for sure. If he tries to cut critical mental health services or staff, I'll lend my voice to the cacophony of protests, not that he listens to me. :)

Happy voting!

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

'corporate wolves'....? what's 'corporate' about big government?

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 2:04 p.m.

more like big government assuring big profits for big corporations.

mrd — November 5, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

golden oldie: You keep moving the goal posts. First you claim nobody answered your challenge to post Leavitt's accomplishments, then when that is done and your claim is shown to be incorrect, you come back with claiming nobody has listed any accomplishments that meet your criteria for accomplishments.
I would have thought Peace Health and Integra were major employers, but if they weren't big enough to meet your criteria for large employers, don't watch the tape of last night's Council meeting when a number of Vancouver companies showed up to thank the Mayor and Council for the role the City played in the creation and retention of several hundred jobs. (Christensen Yachts, etc.)

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

'He's blaming 'staff' but says no one will be fired. He also says some of the sloppiness is due to "the hectic life of a senator in high demand."

jacjak — November 5, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.

Imagine the hectic life of a 'President' in high demand. Paul's own words (and those he steals from others) are clearly damning, killing his chances of higher office. This is a big story that just keeps getting bigger, in part from Paul's own (which seem to be few) words. His mantra for states rights as he petitions for federal intervention with right to work policies is stunning. No center and no moral political resolve it appears. So much for his so-called "libertarian" viewpoints.

From the article:

"Sitting in a conference room in his Senate office complex, Mr. Paul, drawn and clearly shaken by the plagiarism charges, offered a mix of contrition and defiance. He said that he was not certain whether it would affect his prospects should he decide to run for president in 2016 — he said he would happily return to his Kentucky doctor’s practice — and he asserted that was being unfairly targeted."


"Mr. Paul also said he could not rule out that other examples of past plagiarism would come out, but he unequivocally added that no staff members would be fired."

He's clearly shaken and understands the gravity of such allegations, publicly opining about getting out of politics. And it sounds like we'll be treated to more misgivings in the near future!

(imagine plagiarizing and choosing wiki as your source!:)

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hypocrisy has always been a strong point in the Paul family. This so-called decades old limited government "Libertarian" movement is a joke, reminiscent of Bazooka Joe Bubble gum riddles. (although Bazooka Joe is older than this movement) Silly stuff, yet provides a way for "constitutionally" driven politics to make self proclaimed experts out of a small percentage of our ego-driven-too much time on their hands- electorate.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Two more things about the BOCC meeting today!

- I love Sunrise O'Mahoney. I love her determination and outrage towards some of the current BOCC Commissioners. What's not to love about that woman and pretty too.

- Again one of my favorite people that speaks up at that meeting is that union guy that Manthou told me his name but that I forgot. How could you not love these people that show up meeting after meeting standing up for what is right. Same for that elderly woman that mentioned the word hysteria...I thought that was hilarious.

Can't wait for tonite's election results, I hope that Leavitt despite all the negative attacks on him kicks a$$.

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nicepuppy I will be happy when all the votes are in and counted. Which ever way it goes we will have to live with it and deal with it. Poor Battleground has taken a back seat to Vancouver but they are having a very contentious election also. On a smaller scale but still very important to them. This whole country is so divided right now it is a wonder anything gets done.By the way I like the name nicepuppy. Makes you sound so cuddley

timerick — November 5, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We'll watch what Madore does as Vice Chair of SWBH. He is working his way up the food chain there, for sure. If he tries to cut critical mental health services or staff, I'll lend my voice to the cacophony of protests, not that he listens to me. :)

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.

Please keep us informed. And thanks in advance for advocating if, and when, it becomes necessary.

jacjak — November 5, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I find it suspect when those with religious conviction puts themselves into the pathways of the fragile or vulnerable. Altuism is the proclaimed rationale, but the intent to convert is most likely somewhere in the motive, imo.

And in this case, while cutting staff or services could be a concern, so too is the influence of multiple counties and hiring influences. Benton the the county payroll makes me a cynical, looks like.

jacjak — November 5, 2013 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

RTC Meeting started. Whoa. What a day…….

Madore showing another resolution. Ground Hog Day.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I tried to pull it up on the CVTV 21 site but all it had was old stuff. I have direct tv at home and we can't get that channel. Is there another source?

timerick — November 5, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

time rick: You can watch it online at

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 1:24 p.m.

Actually, my claim is not incorrect. You haven't proven to me that our mayor has made any big accomplishments. Also...waiting till the last minute, 24 hours before election results is hardly the time to thank our mayor for a job that was supposedly well done.

Apparently he didn't do as good a job as you think, considering Christensen opened up a new 450,000 square foot plant near Knoxville, TN in 2012. The jobs at Christensen aren't dependent on the mayor, unless he's buying one big enough for all his buddies with the CRC. (yes, sarcasm) On the serious side of things, you claim Mayor Leavitt and City Council for the role the City played in the creation and retention of several hundred jobs. Okay...I can accept that...but how many have been lost up to that point, JohnK. Several Hundred retained or created in a town of over 165,000??? Now how many of that 165,000 have to cross the bridge into Oregon every day in order to obtain wages fit to feed a family???

You see,'s not enough. I honestly cannot say whether or not Turlay can do a better job but we can't be any worse than we are today. Failed promises and deception is not the sign of true leadership. I'm sorry if that sounds terse, but the truth is the truth. The stronghold of Vancouver by special interests wreaks and it is dragging our historic city right into the ground and certain special interests tied to Oregon's transportation system are clouding any chances of our city remaining unique. He's gotten away with a lot more than he should, but the GOBK is strangling any chance of a fair election and I wouldn't doubt for a second that he'd receive a second term...much to the frustration of people who truly want a positive change for our city. And JohnK, I'd honestly be surprised if Turlay did pull it off with a win. I'm not blaming political partisanship. I'm blaming poor leadership controlled by the GOBK.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: It was on Channel 23. They are in Exec Session now, so all is done.

nailingit: Are you watching national returns? Chris Christie re-election projected. No surprise. Terry McAuliiffe leading so far in VA. Chris Matthews says that the tea party is going to be hurting tonight.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"""unless he's buying one big enough for all his buddies with the CRC. (yes, sarcasm)"""

should say "unless he's buying a yacht big enough for all his buddies with the CRC. (yes, sarcasm)"

One final comment here, JohnK...As long as the GOBK has the stronghold on our city, NOBODY has the chance of being fair and impartial...and the job WON'T get done. I honestly see the continuing degradation of our historic city.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 5:05 p.m.

Okay...I have to ask... (Not directed at you, manthou...I'm just wondering. You had mentioned "tea party," and my curiosity got the best of me.)

Everyone is always mentioning the tea party...

Anybody have a list of ACTUAL politicians who are members or is this just another label of a group of politicians who are in opposition to your political views and it's easy for you to associate certain politicians as members of the organization?

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 4, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. Actually several people, myself included, responded to GO's challenge to name a few of Leavitt's accomplishments as Mayor. The two of you may not have liked the answers, but it's incorrect to claim there were responses.
JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 6:25 a.m.

..huh? where did i say the above?

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.

Your "influence" is typical of special interest groups. You don't live in Vancouver. You can't vote in Vancouver, but you can cloud the subject with your constant diatribe.

Thanks,'ve given me a reason to ignore you from now on. You'll never change.

goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:15 p.m.


goldenoldie — November 5, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


here's the entire quote from your post: obamacare simply threw us to the corporate wolves. the Christians stood a better chance with the lions. mrd — November 4, 2013 at 11:09 a.m..

now. tell me again where 'corporate wolves' are getting rich from obamacare.

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HAWK: " Jump in with both feet like Madore and screw up the whole city? I don't live in Vancouver but I appreciate a Mayor NOT screwing things up like they did in Portland the last few years. You don't always have to make huge plans or change things around." — November 5, 2013 at 6:45 a.m

i disagree with your premise that the whole city is screwed up. i've lived here for some time now, and i see no screwup. kinda like noticing the gvt was shut down ,now that i think about it.

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Glad to see Mielke speak up. Incredible to see this play out. Watch it on a re-run if you are missing it live.
manthou — November 5, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.

MT: wonder what lou will use instead of m+m....maybe, M+-M....?

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 5:05 p.m.

Yeeeaaah...this stuff is like crack to me! Exit polls showing McCauliff ahead but current numbers saying differently from what I can see. I noticed C-SPAN has election coverage slated on their agenda @ 6:00

I sure hope McCauiff wins, but either way this will certainly be a referendum on tea party politics. Exit polls are showing a big negative with them. Virginia LT. Gov going to the Dem. It'd be huge if this was a sweep! I keep thinking the House might be ready for change next year, but the numbers are tough.

I wonder how our own Two-Term-Toolin' Tim is doing?

I hope roger has some champaign to uncork. Win or lose, he should celebrate his involvement.

Maybe he should run for Mayor?

If so...start schmoozing roger!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Have you noticed that GD is a full time BSer that never faces up to her actions? If the election goes one way or the popular feeling is one way, sure thing, she denies her actions.

GD, did you vote for Turley? Silence.

GD, tell us about Turley.... Silence, she does not know.

The fact is that she voted for Turley and perhaps the Madore 4 if she could but she will never admit to it. I bet dollars to donuts, that is why she is so defensive.

She attacks me like I have no biz in Vancouver, like she owns Vancouver. Lady, get a clue, this is a public forum, anybody can comment and whether they have vested interests and that things ought to uan honestly is an universal claim, especially in a metropolitan area, especially if some people own properties in both states. Get down of your high horse lady. geez.

I got a feeling that you will lose this election and will end up with a lot to regret.

Have you noticed that Turley's record is not on his webpage? Why? Where are the 40 yers of his history?

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: You've moved the goal posts again. My foot is tired. In mid October you congratulated the City for its listing as one of America's most livable cities. Now, apparently, such a designation is chopped liver and doesn't meet your latest set of standards for Mayoral accomplishments.

You may not think the hundreds of new and retained jobs is such a big deal, but the parade of small business owners at last nights Council meeting crediting and thanking the City for their proactive policies that allowed them to survive and expand their businesses in a down trending economy would disagree.

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 5:27 p.m.


Read my WHOLE post, don't just cut and paste. I DID NOT say Vancouver was screwed up, you did.

I said, and I quote

"Hey Dee, what did you want him to do?

Jump in with both feet like Madore and screw up the whole city? I don't live in Vancouver but I appreciate a Mayor NOT screwing things up like they did in Portland the last few years. You don't always have to make huge plans or change things around. "

Looks like Chris Christie won. Good for him AND New Jersey.

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

C-SPAN doesn't have near the smart election coverage as Maddow along with Steve Schmidt and Chuck Todd commentary. Of course Wolfe is decent but John King talks to himself and no one listens. As far as Fox goes..they just notched McCauliff for the win! Of course I'll wait for verification from a real network. I remember when they projected Romney as a winner. Is Fox even relevant outside the RW bubble? Answer: Of course not!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Christie would win this one. As a governor, he was and is not bad at all, putting his state first. I think his diplomatic skills or lack thereof at times would not carry well on a national level. I do congratulate him also on his weightloss. Yes, a well deserved win.
As to Virginia, Nails, I am not too impressed with the Dem. Although that current gov truly seems to be way way way out there. Took a turn to the right and kept on going so far right that he seems to live in a different universe. Isn't he the one who wants to outlaw any, ahem, certain sex? Among other things? I am putting it delicately here.
I am also watching a few other votes tonight. Like northern Colorado wanting to form their own state. Lol. Want to see the margin of defeat. ( if only Texas would vote, I help em pack).

And waiting, naturally, for state and local results. Hoping Vancouver thinks forward. Hoping Roger gets in. Hoping 522 passes.

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.

Yeah, Cooch is a social conservative who went off the edge a long time ago. Looks like McCauliff will pull this out (in spite of Cooch last minute robo calls lying about McCauliff's positions) with N Virginia results coming in.

And who did Cooch have stumping for him to encourage the state to outlaw what folks do in the bedroom among other things? The wonderful Ron Paul! I wonder how much loot Paul lined his pockets with this time?

MSNBC projecting McCauliff as winner! Huge entering 2014. (now if Obummer can get that damn website fixed)

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, fixing the site would be great, I actually have a few relatives eager to sign up.
Honestly, Nails, I am tired of the Paul's, Ron, Rand, Ryan... First and last name. :)

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jesus F Christ. Lew BackWaters has gone in full denial, just like an alcoholic pretending that he doesn't drink..

He is whining like a little girl he is of all the mud slinging of this political campaign.

Excuse me, in our case is only contempt against dishonesty, unethical practices and cronyysm even backed up with a formal lawsuit by an affected party.

He has been mud slinging since I knew that little whining girl existed and whining about everything.

Get a life old man, you are going nuts. At least we recognize and admit our disgust with your right wing extremist ilk that has destroyed this country.


nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Christie giving acceptance speech...

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Powerful speech. Christie-right for New Jersey-wrong for America

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou will the county have election results on after 8:00? If so where do I find it on the internet?

timerick — November 5, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wondering the same timerick-I was just searching for it.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh good, was looking for them myself. thanks, Nails.

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was just going to post that link, nailingit. :)

We're all waiting…….

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting day. Something I hadn't heard about before was the vote SeaTac is having on raising minimum wage to $15/hour. Both of Seattle's mayoral candidates say they're in favor of it and are watching closely. Geez - Did the Columbian ever mention this before today's article? This has the potential to be really big, especially if passed.

And then a couple of hours ago we learn that Boeing has decided they're tired of this democracy crap - they want their damned highways fixed and a certain governor better do something quickly. So (after changing his soiled trousers) he called for his special session. And it seems some of the Senate majority coalition are playing along. This is going to be very interesting - Liz Pike is sniveling right now, but I'm wondering whether this will change to Moeller and Cleveland in a day or so. I doubt the Seattle crowd cares about our bridge, and to appease Boeing, I'm thinking they'll concede their CRC support to the Repubs in exchange for their support of the stripped down Trans bill that fixes 167, 512 and some of the rail infrastructure up north. We'll know soon.

roger — November 5, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Good job for putting your name out there! You should get a big pat on the back and here is mine….

Vancouver went as I had thought: Leavitt, Burkman, Topper, Ogle

My District 3 Freeholders are who I called, too: Jollota, Moeller, Lentz, Mains, and Ogden

I am happy. :)

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

#clarkelex on Twitter

53.6 to 46.4 Leavitt

langenthal — November 5, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope they're not falling asleep counting ballots. Somebody needs to spike their coffee & tea with some Geritol & dexedrine!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore 4 shown the door! Mayor manthou called district 3!

roger-nice try bud-we were behind you-next time hire me as your campaign advisor! I work cheap! Kinda!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So far so good. Even local stuff here in east is going my way. Except for 522. Flawed? Yes. Important? Hell yes, would send strong message. But Monsanto' s big pockets and ads carry the day it seems.
Fine, more reason to vote with wallet and buy what I feel is right.

Let's see how it progresses...
And captcha totally stinks today

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, good for you for trying. Next time go out and tell people what you stand for. I really don't like the slate to be filled with politicos.

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Temple Lentz,, looks like she's going to win!!! GREAT!

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow - Look at the number of votes cast - just a bit over 20,000. Pathetic.

Manthou - Good for Ann and Jack. I've no use for the other two.

A name I'm glad to see winning his freeholder race is Marc Boldt -

I was surprised I got as many votes as I did. Dennis was much stronger than I expected - must be more Dems here in the 17th than I thought. And good for Dimitry for getting out there too. I didn't realize the level of anti-Russian feeling around here until this race - I've had a few people tell me they would never vote for one. Sad.

Most of the big Repub names are also making the freeholder group. It will be local politics as usual.

roger — November 5, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jan Angel is leading Schlicher about 55% to 45%. That means a constipated state Senate.

We won't get the transportation or environmental budgets we need, I fear.

How in the world is Madore gonna spin those advisory votes? His East County bridge to the grandkids got more of the votes, with the I-5 option coming in next. Sharon Nasset's West Side option is going down to a No. Oh, she won't be happy. Not that any of these mean anything.

Glad that the majority want more stringent fireworks regulations.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

McAuliffe’s projected victory is hardly anything to crow about. The projected victory is by a fraction of one percent. Take the Libertarian candidate out, and Cuccinelli would certainly have won.

Christie easliy wins in a normally Democrat state.

As I’ve said before, this basement forum is mostly composed of Leftists. You people accomplish nothing with your unrelenting child-like stone throwing.

kn_dalai — November 5, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

CVTV Channel 23 is interviewing Alishia Topper.

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice to see Vancouver headed in a progressive direction.

Madore continues to be a liability to anyone associated with him politically. The political fallout & damage he's accomplished in such a short time is amazing.

At least he's provided us with some..[ahem]-[cough]..transparency.

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is a big pat on the back from me to Roger. Thanks for giving it a try. I think we all are proud of you.

timerick — November 5, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, all. Maybe I'll run against Madore for County Comm next time. I can see it now - Nails as chief adviser, and Kelly Hinton as publicist.

Now, you all do realize that those worthless County advisory votes are showing something - the largest margins of victory in any race that I checked are showing the people want our vote on LRT and BRT!!!

I am sort of disappointed that the western bridge option - the one I consider the best - is failing. The east side has the most comfortable margin of the three - that's the one Madore and Mielke are pushing. I will keep saying this - The "downtown-centric" crowd we have here is not connecting on that there's a whole other world out here on the east side.

roger — November 5, 2013 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

" You people" accomplish nothing with your unrelenting child-like stone throwing.

kn_dalai — November 5, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

Seriously? YOU PEOPLE?

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just realized sour grapes can make a victory that much sweeter. Kinda like salt on chocolate!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

SeaTac Prop 1, the $15 minimum wage vote, is leading 54 to 46 in early returns. Seattle Times is playing it cute on the 26th race - they just say Schlicher and Angel are only a few hundred votes apart without saying who's leading! (That tells me Angel is up, but I'm going to have to look further.)

roger — November 5, 2013 at 9:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I liked the West side option, too. And my preference is that it would get me to US 26 and the Oregon coast faster. :) The ONLY option we had was 1-5, actually.

nailingit: Lisa Walters lost is Battle Ground to Mike Delasandro. This is a significant win. Delasandro has been skewered as a "liberal" by many of the conservative bloggers.

I know that Madore will be worried about the Freeholders suggesting we increase the commissioners from 3 to 5 or 7. I think he will make his early exit if that happens: he has said that the job is impossible as part time. It will give him the out he needs. One can hope.

Temple Lentz getting interviewed now. :)

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Knew I could count on the News Tribune. Angel is leading Schlicher, but by a much lower margin that back in August.

Manthou - What's your source for this race? You might want to double check that you didn't link to one of the many articles still out there from the primary. That 55 - 45 lead is much bigger than what I'm seeing. That race won't be settled until tomorrow.

roger — November 5, 2013 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Temple Lentz getting interviewed now. :)

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:09 p.m.

Great interview. Happy-excited-articulate and already speaking of reaching consensus with others. She'll be great!

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

New York Voters Approve Expanded Casino Gambling
New York voters on Tuesday approved a constitutional amendment to expand casino gambling, authorizing as many as seven full-scale casinos as part of a plan meant to bring jobs to economically distressed parts of upstate.

See that? "as part of a plan meant to bring jobs to economically distressed parts of upstate."

We could use this in LaCenter

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow - Mike Briggs is a wet blanket.

roger — November 5, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

To All Posters Gleeful and Happy about 'the results'....

don't party too hard. this is just a percentage of the ballots. from what i saw when i walked my ballot in, there are a LOT of uncounted votes out there.

DeeLittle — November 5, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Was Peterson high?

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Schlicher currently running 13,400 votes to Angel's 14,179

langenthal — November 5, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Peterson was spinning the No Tolls "mandate." When the voters did not have a chance to vote yes on an advisory vote without choosing No Tolls (the two were wedded together in the wording), it is meaningless.

So yes, she seemed a little short on cognitive connections tonight. :)

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Oh, that is close. Wonder how many votes they expect to count tomorrow?

manthou — November 5, 2013 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So WHY does it take them so long to count the ballots? Is there only one person counting?

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seattle Times says the next update on the Angel/Schlicher race will be late Wednesday. I haven't checked the Tacoma News Tribune yet; perhaps they'll be more motivated to follow this. As of the last update, Angel's lead was a little short of 800.

But in other news, Senate Leader Rodney Tom was at that news conference where Gov Inslee insisted we have a week to meet Boeing's demands. It seems he's willing to meet everything else (lots of tax concessions, etc), but the transportation package will have to be a second phase. And the legislators present (unnamed) made it clear - no money for the CRC.

Hopefully, Oregon will see the light. And while listening to traffic updates on Channel 6 News last night, they said that trip from the Marquam Bridge to the I5 Bridge at around 5:30 pm was running 24 minutes; below the average 35 minutes. Considering that just getting onto I205 north anywhere in the I84 to Airport Way area, or sitting on Clay Street in downtown Portland trying to get onto OR26 westbound, easily takes twice that long at that time of day - Sorry - Sounds to me like our problem isn't as big as we want it to be.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 5, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.

Who I vote for and what I vote for is my business. Unfortunately, I live just 4 blocks outside the voting territory of Leavitt...much to the success of Forward Vancouver. IF I'd had the chance, I definitely wouldn't have voted for either. In fact, I would have written in Jeanne Harris as an alternative. How's that suit ya, pups??? I still had no reason to explain anything to you about Turlay. Your reasoning was faulty and you evaded my quest for facts. You sidestepped my request so why should I waste my time with you??? Oh shoot...I'm wasting my time now! Good riddance, troll!

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 5, 2013 at 10:17 p.m.

It takes time for the ballots with empty spaces to be filled in...8P

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 5, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.


goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 5, 2013 at 8:28 p.m.

Thank you so much for providing the link to the most current election results. It's truly appreciated.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 5, 2013 at 8:59 p.m.

I think I can safely made us forum dwellers proud for throwing your hat in the race for freeholder and for that, I Thank You. Maybe next time...

Regarding the Advisory Votes...I too agree with you that the west-side bridge option would have been the best selection. Good to see we've sent that all important message regarding light rail and BRT, though.

I wonder if the pro-MAX crowd notices the obvious disapproval of MAX in our county, yet???? Guess they're blinded by those financial incentives they're all drooling for!!!

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 5, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

Only time will tell if the direction Vancouver is moving is a positive move. So far....

Not so good. Time for the mayor to actually walk the walk.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 5, 2013 at 6 p.m.

John, the goal posts haven't moved. Vancouver didn't achieve that status due to whatever claims Leavitt or you might have. It's a community effort...a sense of pride...and it's also because of the fact that there are hospitals within 5 miles of any home in Vancouver as well as the wonders of the Cascades within reach. THAT's why I congratulated the City of Vancouver. This was NOT an award for the Vancouver City Council. Of anything, what our city council has done has whittled away some of that sense of pride...and it began when our current mayor deceived the voters into thinking he'd be able to do something he wasn't qualified to do and that is to avoid possible tolls on I-5 Bridge. As soon as he was first elected, he became buddy buddy with the entire CRC process, letting down all of Clark County...and his move to vote on the M&O; of MAX...BAD Move. BAD move! He is obviously involved in special projects that suit his needs. His decision as member of Board of Directors of C-Tran affected all of us, not just the city.

He might have won a popularity vote in Vancouver (not by much, either...considering most voters in the city limits didn't even waste their time, knowing the GOBK would see to it he was re-elected...but he's not winning a vote of confidence in Clark County. THAT's for sure.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Jack Burkman expressed it very well last night: the voters (those of us who bothered to mark and return our ballots) rejected the one-note, negative campaign of the losing candidates. We have so many other issues, issues within our control, to brainstorm and solve together and I truly believe that the Vancouver City Council, starting January, will be a fantastic team. I cannot wait to see what we can accomplish together.

FB commenter Douglas Green spoke my sentiments last night when he wrote this:

"So does this mean we don't have to have a very outspoken minority behave as though they are greatly aggrieved majority? Maybe no more over the top rhetoric? Vigorous debate is good but I am glad name calling and other school yard bully boy behavior was not rewarded."

What I wouldn't give for some of these folks to bury the hatchet, sidle up beside those elected and those citizens who supported those elected and, in Madore's favorite words, get 'er done. I think Turlay is the cream of that crop and will.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

Good morning, manthou. Mind if I give my two cents???

It was a small percentage of voters this year in the city limits. Pretty sad, wouldn't you think? I believe if more had voted...and had voted not by name association and misguidance by political flyers and advertisements, but by the merits of each and every box checked... it would have been a different case scenario altogether.

In my case, I live just outside the voting zone for city matters. I have been very vocal and I believe many of us who live just outside the zone are frustrated with what we are witnessing and feel our voices SHOULDN'T BE CHASTISED as they are today. IF the election was based upon members of the entire county of Clark, I believe the results would have been much different but things aren't done that way for a reason. is a beautiful city, even with chest-high weeds (only because I hold to the historic and intrinsic value as well as the positive potential of Vancouver)...and it is my sincere hope that things only become better. It can't get much worse than it is today.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I like what Lou B says in his special edition Press Talk today.

Madore has insinuated himself in all Clark County races, but he has done so in a clumsy, foolish way. Those techniques he loves backfired last night and they will continue to backfire.

Glad journalists have a strong carapace because here come the slings and arrows…….

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi, goldie:

What's so horrible about having to live within Vancouver city limits to vote? I don't get to vote in the Camas election, or Ridgefield, LaCenter, or Seattle. I would loved to have given them a hand there. :)

Look, I agree that it is a crying shame that such a vast number of registered voters could not be bothered to fill in a ballot and send it in. So the ones who cared enough to do their research, become informed, perhaps those were the ones who decided this election.

Clark County as a whole does not get to tell those of us in Vancouver how to run our city government or who to elect. What's so egregious about that concept?

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

Oh, it's not horrible living inside the city limits, manthou. I never said that. It's the fact that living with an address that ends in Vancouver, Washington...and some of us who cannot vote on the mayor of our town are frustrated because of that fact. I voted but it didn't turn out the way I'd hoped...but the process, be that as it almost done for this election with over 20,000 ballots yet to count...and we accept the decision, even if it is from a gross minority of the voting public. At least I knew I made my choices and I can live with the choices I made. For those who didn't vote...their voices are mute. I honestly believe people have given up...assuming who or what they'd vote for wouldn't win anyhow.

It's a of our very freedoms to make the be a voice OF the people...and it goes largely ignored by the majority of the people who are registered.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Editor Lou is wrong - Madore was a response by County residents to the CRC. Stuart remains quite vulnerable to a moderate candidate who promises to take a position against that agreement with TriMet.

Lou is also ignoring the real impact of that Boeing demand. SR167 and I405 upgrades will be made or else. (Also some local railroad fixes.) The Senate majority said they will support this, but continue to affirm there will be no money for the CRC. But Inslee isn't going to get off that easy - The Democratic powers in Seattle need Boeing more than the Repubs. I expect to see that Inslee will also have to concede the business of WSDOT entering into agreements with ODOT to support the Oregon alone CRC plan. And don't be surprised to see Peterson get the axe too. (And that's my prediction.)

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I think many folks have tossed in the towel, too, as a self-preservation tool. Wiser persons than I usually advise to stay away from news and politics if you want to extend and promote a more blissful life.

I am not criticizing citizens who exercised their right to vote, no matter how they voted. I am so glad you did and so glad you add your opinion to the important mix. That is how our system works: the majority voice wins. The wisest winners, however, realize that they represent the minority opinion, too, and they find a way to connect and compromise.

I am so hungry for compromise and collaboration.

The CRC was a divisive, toxic issue that injured our community and it is truly out of Clark County's hands right now. Hooray for that. It is out of Washington's hands, too. I don't think its survival chances are very good now, but our bickering and lack of compromise helped hand this project over to another government. It is what happens with obstructive politics.

What does Steve Stuart say: "Sit down at the table or be prepared to be on the menu."

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Today is a good day in Clark County and the City of Vancouver. Reason and Progress have won. The hate spreading local Right Wing Extremist and Evangelicals have lost! They belong to the "flat earth" society and the citizenry moved on to better things (future) a long time ago, but they insist on slamming on the brakes. They do hate freedom. Freedom manifested as not being minimum wage slaves with their minimum wage economy, live under an archaic mind set and wasting fuel, time and life risking to earn a decent living.

Lew BackWaters could not accept defeat but he decided last night to go to bed as a loser that he is, K J Hinton refusing to accept defeat as well. Christian "Belligerent" Berrigan was MIA and went to be among all his weapons and ammo dreaming about the violent war he has entertained in his mind fo some times. Elections have consequences Belligerent Berrigan, don't they. Now is time for you to get a life and get lost! Go ask Madonis for a job sweeping his company, stop bugging people. You suck, your ideology suck, your one man tax avoidance operation sucks! Carolyn Crain is for the long haul. OMG, what else do you expect. When you don't have a life to live, you have no choice but being a parasite of circumstances! Debbie Cry me a river Petterson....Debbie who? Yep, Dallas is waiting... Madonis? Get lost bud, nobody buys your crap anymore. Nobody but the flat earth society. Get it? The clock is ticking and you have better pack your bags out of the County Public Services Building. You burned all possible bridges! We don't have communion with charlatans and promoters of fake religions nor with people that practice cronyism.

GoldenOldest, You can rationalize it any which way you want to, the fact of the matter is that today, you have a sore butt! The people have spoken! Nicepuppy did his humping and got his treat! Ha! Reason and Progress won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Temple Lentz! Sorry Roger, I warned you. Despite that you got a lot of votes. Don't give up, just wise up!

To the compromising ones! You don't compromise in a war of good against evil, when you win, you set the rules!

Pike, you won but we are watching you like a Hawk, you Fern Prairie hillbilly!


nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The Boeing issue is not a topic of Press Talk today, is it? I think this new issue is unfolding and will be another polarizing problem that will impact the entire state, for sure. I watch it, as you do, with great interest.

Madore for sure speaks for and to a certain segment of Clark County. So does Stuart. There is a real clash of cultures playing out and it is not dead with this current election.

Madore's techniques have been a real turn off, even to those who once supported him. They overshadow the good things he has done (his transparency in government changes). And some people think Steve Stuart made political mistakes, as well, and he will have to answer for those to his opponents.

Even if Madore is no longer in office, as long as he is a resident of Clark County, he will loom very large in controversy and influence in future elections. He will always be the true opponent, the person who tries to be the game-changer and king-maker. Lou B is spot on.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

golden oldie — November 6, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. No question Vancouver's inclusion on the Top 100 list was a community effort. But the Mayor was the leader of the community that made the designation possible and deserves an appropriate amount of credit. (Can you imagine the vitriol if we'd been listed in the bottom 100?) It's called leadership and that Leavitt was able to overcome the negativity and support a slate of candidates with an impressive list of community service and civic involvement, especially when compared to the Madore 4, (less Stewart) was an impressive achievement and had a great deal to do with the last night's election results.

(I spent a few hours last week handing out literature and talking w/voters. The community service comparison turned out to be a talking point almost as persuasive as mentioning the connection of the Madore 4 to the Benton appointment. )

JohnK — November 6, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way forum dwellers, if you are a "contemporary" person, not a boring person, flat earth society type, tune in to AXSTV (channel 798 in my comcast), great documentaries and more importantly, great music, concerts, etc. 9PM Saturday, grab your mind enhancer of choice and enjoy the show, turn it up, way up, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy upppppppppppp!


nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


" Goldenoldie
November 6, 2013 at 5:23 AM

A BIG loss to Vancouver with Jeanne Stewart…a BIG loss.

Lon Wells, I’m with you. Moving away from one of the most corrupted cities in the Pacific Northwest might be our only option to live a life in fairness…away from the GOBK for sure."

The Candidate Topper that showed Stewart the door is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better, Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Better, she is smart, she is young, she is pretty, What else do you want? Stewart made a big mistake. She was two faced. She did not separate herself unequivocally from Madonis and she paid the price. You can't have it both ways lady! It is an either, or! You did not call out Madonis on your web page by name. You were afraid. You lacked the guts because you were in bed with the culprit! Voters like clear definitions.

GoldenOldest, you are not moving anywhere! We know....we just have to look at the wind vane....Tomorrow you will say something else. LOL

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: You are the national expert here and I think you will like this.

Campbell Robinson of the NYT writes about a moderate Republican Bradley Byrne's win in Alabama over a Tea Party-ish naysayer last night. The moderates are fighting back and winning. Hope this is a national trend.

"In debates, Mr. Byrne, who ran unsuccessfully for governor in 2010, spoke in level tones about infrastructure projects he wanted to bring to the district, while Mr. Young stuck to fiery but largely general grievances against Washington and the Obama administration. Mr. Byrne painted a happy picture of the district’s good times ahead; Mr. Young lamented the “end of a Western Christian empire.”

Sounds familiar. While Anne Ogle was discussing her years of community service and volunteerism, for example, Frank Decker was beating a one-note anti-government mantra. Voters are tired of sound bites.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Last night, when it became apparent that Jeanne Stewart was losing, there was some speculation about her running against Stuart next year. Of course she'd have to beat the perennials in a primary, but she's easily the most credible Republican I've heard mentioned as a possibility so far.

JohnK — November 6, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.

I was perusing articles last night and took notice of this race as well. There seems to be something in the air. A spirit that is starting to define our politics with reason and foresight. Maybe there is hope for the republican party after all. If they can survive the next six years or so, and elect those with moderate voices such as what happened in Bama there is hope. We need a reasonable right.

Comprehensive immigration reform and increasing gender equality will remove two of the final "boogey man" issues separating extremists from moderates on the right, not only legitimizing a fast growing segment of our population, (hispanics) but bring into focus that the rule of old conservative white guys governing is coming to an end. Gender wise, a woman in the White House will be the nail!

And our beloved SCOTUS has to change, voices of ideologues like Scalia, Alito & Thomas need to be met with majority voices weighted with concern about fairness, justice, and what is truly right for America,

After your comment about Delasandro, I spent some time researching him. I really take heart knowing young folks are so involved. Hopefully he can influence more youth to become active in local politics.

Overall a great day for vancouver politics!

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I like Jeanne Stuart also. She has been a stable voice for the city. In every election there are winners and losers. My votes did not get me everything I wanted as I am sure is true for a lot of us. My hope is we can get back to seeing this city run the way it should. Outside money should not influence the decisions our leaders make. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. I supported Leavitt the first time he won. I couldn't this time because I felt he had been swayed to much by the old time power brokers in this town. I know that the advisory votes are just that. But I hope these newly elected people look at what the majority of us that voted told them through our votes. We may all differ on our politics but I do believe most of want the same end result. Thanks to all of you for voting and for all the information that you posted. Some of it did help me to decide how I would vote.

timerick — November 6, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sebelius is getting grilled again and Cornyn made himself out to be a bullying fool. These dinosaurs will go down in time. It can't happen soon enough for me.


"Only time will tell if the direction Vancouver is moving is a positive move. So far....

Not so good. Time for the mayor to actually walk the walk."

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 5:59 a.m.

No question Vancouver is headed into a progressive direction. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion. I see our community as looking forward as I've never seen before in my short time living here.

John K, myself and others made a reasonable argument for Leavitt's credibility. No question he's looking to the future and his utmost concern is job growth. His interview last night on CVTV (after he was check marked for the win) was more than encouraging. Jobs jobs and more jobs were his concern. If he's gloating about his win it's being done privately. He handled his victory with class and humility. The more I see of this guy the more I like him. (although without question he is a hardened polished politician-I'm sure the vitriol from the right has helped to toughen him up)

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The few conservatives commenting on Madore's FB page make it sound like a wake. I'm really happy that flakes like Peterson and "The Crane" weren't rewarded with a position. These folks have nothing kind to say to anyone except those they are enamored with. Madore has fast become more of a cult leader that he has a commissioner.

I wonder what the next County Madore prayer will sound like? Any ideas? :)))

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Remember how the local Taliban trashed Ron Oslow of Ridgefield and put that cop against him? Well, he got his a$$ kicked too! I''ll tell ya. Being on the side of Osama Mad-laden Madonis is definitely a curse.

Remember that menopausic Carolyn crain, She got her A$$ kicked too! Why? Isn't it obvious? Does it need an explanation?

Remember that Cry me a river Debbie Petterson? She got her A$$ kicked too!

What this would do? Probably they will radicalize themselves even more. They can't take a loss. Why? Because they would be in the food stamp line. They have to suck up to someone in the private world. Their masters.


I was reading the new Osama Mad-Laden Mad-onis new BOCC resolution and I truly find it offensive. Offensive to the peaceful living among citizens of Clark County. Offensive against the public office they represent. Offensive against Stuart, extremely offensive. Offensive against the C-Tran Board and the RTC Board.

This can not go on people. This can not go on. That BOCC is a bad joke. Since Madonis took office not one job has been created, not one company of significant size or any size has set up shop. The focus is wrong. If we had good job in the area, all this stupid fight would be irrelevant and these idiots would be more worried about making money than ruining an area with their Orthodox flat earth society shackles and chains.

So far, today is a good day in the region. Advisory votes? What the hell is that? A vote is a vote and must have consequences as Belligerent Berrigan stated at the BOCC meeting. So what is this waste of time for?

Go to hell with your Taliban bunch Osama Mad-Laden Mad-onis and stay there! Burn to ashes! Nobody gives a crap! You are evil and we don't adore money because money corrupts people! Look what happened to you...Your God is watching you....


nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.

Oh boy, and howdy!! Engaged, savvy, and engaged aren't just words, they are actions too.

jacjak — November 6, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder what the next County Madore prayer will sound like? Any ideas? :)))
nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.

Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL, I think his prayer would be....

Lord, Don't give up on us your loyal Taliban, the Clark County Infidels have won a battle but not the war. Please give me more government contracts, tax breaks, fake charities so I can write off a significant part of my building from this choking taxes. I need to pay more to my Taliban so they lose their dignity even more and attract more Taliban for "our" army Lord. We got the drones, we got the weapons, we got the ammo and we got the idiots that will fight the war for us dear Lord. Please don't give up on us Lord. Amen....

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Spot on langenthal. Classic!

nicepup- I saw a sign the other day that said "Baptists are America's Taliban!" Pretty right on. At least they are letting "their women" drive. Not so sure about voting though. ;)


Knowing that Lew Waters checks this forum regularly, (with an ego big as his, knowing he's discussed, as well as being a previous forum commenter-how could he not) I happily post his link.

Lew- You sound disgruntled, unhappy, miserable and judgmental. I thought for once you might sound differently today, at least a little more crass, but business as usual. :)

Maybe it's time you posted another (for the one thousandth time) "Jaime Herrera called my house and I didn't pick up right away, but on the third time...blah blah blah" to try and lend relevancy to your voice.

Thank you for not commenting on the C like you used to. Others on Face Book now have some air to breathe, and makes better viewing for those of us who don't use Face Book. Why don't you start engaging the forum again? Your opinion would actually get some attention, and you could take out your frustrations anonymously if you chose to. (I have a feeling your fave Rufus Parsewhatever made it in last night.)

So all in all, a thank you Lew.

(sorry guys-that was somewhat cathartic for me-but hey-I have learned & gleaned lessons of civility here-much thanks to our forum Mayor-just a little slip up here & there-:)

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ohhh Lord......

“Blessed are the rich and powerful in business,
for theirs is the kingdom of enslavement and free markets.
Blessed are those who pay no taxes and are deemed terrorists,
for they will be given my endorsement and contributions.
Blessed are the arrogant and unbending,
for they will inherit the House of Representatives.
Blessed are those who wine and dine and vote against helping the poor and hungry for self righteousness sake,
for they will be honored on my Face Book account.
Blessed are US Digital employees,
for they will be shown a cost of living raise (maybe).
Blessed are the local conservatives,
for they see me as God.
Blessed are those who answer a call for violence for the sake of liberal thought, for theirs is the kingdom of ballroom dancing, my favorite TV shows, as well as my holy chambers of the BOCC.

“Blessed are you when liberals insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in my deep pockets, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before me.

And blessed are those who voted against the evil Leavitt and his minions, ye shall be rewarded with my platitudes and praises.

"For mine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever."


nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The dichotomy in this election is that pro lite rail Vancouver council members won reelection, but the advisory #1 vote passed overwhelmingly, assuming the percentages hold up. It’s a schism between Vancouver and the rest of the county, and afaic, shows why the pro lite railers didn’t want a vote on the matter. It’d be interesting to see a precinct by precinct map of Vancouver, to see how West Vancouver voted, and how East Vancouver voted. I think Roger is likely correct about a difference. The county’s election website has individual listings by precinct, but I don’t see a single map with all precincts. Also, adding the votes counted and the estimated votes left to be counted (57,679 + 28,000) , I come up with 34.71 % voter turnout based on 246,865 registered voters, versus 23.36 % shown.

kn_dalai — November 6, 2013 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, and hawkeye @9:02 p.m., about that "You people", thanks for noticing. I thought my you people commentary was downright dandy!

kn_dalai — November 6, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You scared me with that prayer Nails, especially "The Commissioner's chambers"....

I pictured sodomy, chains, leather, whips, manhandled old bibles, inquisition, torture machines, screaming, blood , sexiual deviance and pure terror...please refrain to tarnish such noble offices and the possibility of the King using them for his most perverted deviations....praise the Lord...Lucifer please leave those Commissioner's chambers at once...I command you....praise the Lord almighty!!!!!!


On another is a serious question....

Why doesn't any of the Madonis employees gives an interview. Are they that scared to lose their jobs if they talk about their master,s commandments? hmmmmmmmm

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The part I do not understand and has to do with the essence, the fabric, the fiber, the honor, the integrity, honesty of a man...that Benton has not resigned yet. He caused all this trouble in the community together with his two budies and their dirty coal and oil masters. The prize must be very high to trash their names and families this way. if I was a son or a daughter of these crooks I would be so ashamed that I would change my name. i really would. I would disown them and woyd tell them, how dare you, how dare you put our family through this shame.

Seriously, The three of them ought to resign at once so not to cause more damage.

Poor family, I feel sorry for them. is the money that good? That dirty money that corrupt yoru souls? Not worth it people, live and leave with dignity....I mean that...

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well damn it langenthal, you went and blew my cover. Stop in and see me if you ever make it back here to Joisey.

kn_dalai — November 6, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good afternoon hope everyone and everything you voted for passed. Onto a question I want to understand..

Sometimes you have to read between the lines here in the basement..LOL but what is it about Madores religion that you don't like... I'm just trying to understand where you and maybe others are coming from. kin da the black and white version..Thanks

On another matter just visited Peetown this morning. I really hate driving over there. Seems like Pedestrians and Bicyclists seem they don't have to obey street signs. Walk and Bicycle as you please, very annoying, I happens here in the couve as well. Just an observation.

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

woyd=would sorry FDs

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I will answer vandreamer....

Those walmart box big parking lot religions and churches are fake as fake can be and are an excuse to write off taxes and use that money for political reasons to enslave this country and control it.

Evangelicals wherever they go in the world prey on the poor and ignorant, take their money, pursue their political religious aganda towards a klepto-theocratic government. No different than the Taliban.

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 1:24 p.m.

One of the Madore faithful who posts on FB, Chuck Miller is slated by someone as working (family as well) for Madore. He lists as interests-Palin & Bachman. You can't make this stuff up. Moeller had a great take on the election:

Jim Moeller · Top Commenter

"As I mentioned before, it's Wednesday morning November 6th, and there's at least one person in the county scratching their head wondering if they got their moneys worth. Since no one's asked for my opinion, I'll tell you anyway: Even in a low turn-out election, (which should have favored the Republicans) the voters delivered a body blow to Commissioner David Madore and his ideological philosophy of government as a unworkable problem instead of a partner in the solutions. A politically smart man would take this message under advisement regarding the future of our community and his political future. Doubling down on a losing game is not a smart strategy."

Reply · 38 · · 5 hours ago

I wonder if the King himself will produce a public statement regarding this community overwhelmingly denouncing his brand of politics.

He's like the loser one sits next to at the 21 table, gets two sixes up and doubles down.

I wonder if now, since his strategy hasn't worked, he'll make good on his call to violence.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"but what is it about Madores religion that you don't like..."

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.

If you have a launch point for your statement I'll go from there. What are you even talking about?

Kinda like your constant denigration of our president, and me asking you what you don't like about his religion. Please be clear and state a premise.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer: I don't even know which church Madore attends, but I"m guessing it's one of those promoting the concept of elite fundamentalism, which allows those in power to avoid accountability. Google elite fundamentalism or 'C; street and The Fellowship and you'll get an idea. Former Senator Ensign was one of the believers.

JohnK — November 6, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

at 1:47 p.m.

Just to clarify, playing two hands at a time for those familiar with my analogy.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"On another matter just visited Peetown this morning. I really hate driving over there."

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.

You guys crack me up with your Peetown-Poorland type statements, while spending much of your time there.

Kinda like pissin' against the wind and griping about your shoes getting wet...

Ohhh LordDa...please assist my fellow forum brethren...

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Erik Hidle ‏@col_clarkgov 12m
ClarkCo may be kicked out of its risk pool w/other counties over wrongful imprisonment settlement. I'll have story later today.

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have played 21 many times, doubling down on a pair of sixes is not tantamount to failure. .. Having a sis living in sin city makes it easier to go visit and have fun.hen keeping it to fun sometimes you have to gamble and a pair of 6 well you better be on a hot streak.

On Pres Obama, I answered that question for you a year ago. Your the one that had to keep asking the question...No harm there no "Fowl"..LOL. No Now your going off to rant land.. Someone doesn't agree with one of your takes.. I thought HC was back,..YIKES... antway no need to answer my question.. Just wanted to know where you were coming from and what your ax was about his Religion...

My take on anyones religion is to everyone believe what they want. I'm no preacher and am not preaching to anyone. I have a small companion I run allott by.. You know he has very few harsh words for most of my thoughts, except lets not be late for dinner and the walk later... Peace out...

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Check this out gang. This guy K J Hinton is really losing it. The Columbian smoked him out years ago having an "alter ego" named "Rufus Parsenagel", he posts as such all over the place including on Madonis FB page. Now, this guy is so whacko that he talks to himself and brings the two "falter egos" into play in his write up. Check it out... Is this crazy or what? This lunatic lost it after this lost election. HE was a fierce enemy of Ron Onslow as well. This Lew Backwater's buddy needs some help, but they cut state funds to treat this type of whacko. Someone help him because the local Taliban loves these types of whackos. Shoot, shoot, shoot..they command the whacko and the whacko don't hesitate. He can hurt his foot seriously...bang bang...bang....hahahahahaah Only in Taliban land... ***

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Nails, it's like this. I grew up in 'P-Town. In the hood of all places. I still have relatives residing there. I was in P-Town last night. I had to dodge bicyclists with no lights or light clothing. One was going about twenty or so and he was wearing a black hoody, black pants, black socks and had a blacked out bike. I was going slow and he blew by me, on the right side, and then proceeded to turn left in front of me. And the pedestrians. Well let's just say that Darwin thing is not working fast enough. Nothing like dodging these idiots on a wet and rainy night. But I concede that you can find them anywhere, over here also.

On a more lighter side I was just thinking is HC/BP going to donate his brain to science?? LOL

It's a joke son. Don't take it seriously.

Everyone have a good day and remember it's only politics. It is not life and death.

JohnCasey — November 6, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

3:30Pm can't come soon enough....I need more election results...

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 2:25 PM: Not surprising. I am sure the risky legal actions of the newest commissioner and his cohort helped grease those skids, as well.

These guys are likely going to cost us more legal defense money in the future and any good insurer knows it if we know it. :)

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just think our current president is incompetent an for obvious reasons. If you don't believe sobeit.. Keep your head in the sand...24 defining moments under the Obama Watch....Let me know which of these you disagree with when you get time..

" Per the white house dossier" Plagiarized
1. IRS targets Obama’s enemies: The IRS targeted conservative and pro-Israel groups prior to the 2012 election. who ordered it, whether there was any White House involvement and whether there was an initial effort to hide who knew about the targeting and when.

2. Benghazi: This is actually three scandals in one:

The failure of administration to protect the Benghazi mission.
The changes made to the talking points in order to suggest the attack was motivated by an anti-Muslim video
The refusal of the White House to say what President Obama did the night of the attack
3. Watching the AP: The Justice Department performed a massive cull of Associated Press reporters’ phone records as part of a leak investigation.

4. Rosengate: The Justice Department suggested that Fox News reporter James Rosen is a criminal for reporting about classified information and subsequently monitored his phones and emails.

5. Potential Holder perjury I: Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress he had never been associated with “potential prosecution” of a journalist for perjury when in fact he signed the affidavit that termed Rosen a potential criminal.

6. The ATF “Fast and Furious” scheme: Allowed weapons from the U.S. to “walk” across the border into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. The ATF lost track of hundreds of firearms, many of which were used in crimes, including the December 2010 killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

7. Potential Holder Perjury II: Holder told Congress in May 2011 that he had just recently heard about the Fast and Furious gun walking scheme when there is evidence he may have known much earlier.

8. Sebelius demands payment: HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius solicited donations from companies HHS might regulate. The money would be used to help her sign up uninsured Americans for ObamaCare.

9. The Pigford scandal: An Agriculture Department effort that started as an attempt to compensate black farmers who had been discriminated against by the agency but evolved into a gravy train delivering several billion dollars in cash to thousands of additional minority and female farmers who probably didn’t face discrimination.

10. GSA gone wild: The General Services Administration in 2010 held an $823,000 training conference in Las Vegas, featuring a clown and a mind readers. Resulted in the resignation of the GSA administrator.

11. Veterans Affairs in Disney World: The agency wasted more than $6 million on two conferences in Orlando. An assistant secretary was fired.

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the next 12.
12. Sebelius violates the Hatch Act: A U.S. special counsel determined that Sebelius violated the Hatch Act when she made “extemporaneous partisan remarks” during a speech in her official capacity last year. During the remarks, Sebelius called for the election of the Democratic candidate for governor of North Carolina.

13. Solyndra: Republicans charged the Obama administration funded and promoted its poster boy for green energy despite warning signs the company was headed for bankruptcy. The administration also allegedly pressed Solyndra to delay layoff announcements until after the 2010 midterm elections.

14. AKA Lisa Jackson: Former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson used the name “Richard Windsor” when corresponding by email with other government officials, drawing charges she was trying to evade scrutiny.

15. The New Black Panthers: The Justice Department was accused of using a racial double standard in failing to pursue a voter intimidation case against Black Panthers who appeared to be menacing voters at a polling place in 2008 in Philadelphia.

16. Waging war all by myself: Obama may have violated the Constitution and both the letter and the spirit of the War Powers Resolution by attacking Libya without Congressional approval.

17. Biden bullies the press: Vice President Biden’s office has repeatedly interfered with coverage, including forcing a reporter to wait in a closet, making a reporter delete photos, and editing pool reports.

18. AKPD not A-OK: The administration paid millions to the former firm of then-White House adviser David Axelrod, AKPD Message and Media, to promote passage of Obamacare. Some questioned whether the firm was hired to help pay Axelrod $2 million AKPD owed him.

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 1:47 p.m

I'll tell you exactly what Madore will do. Nothing. It won't phase him a bit. He will go on as if it was just another day and nothing happened. That's the way he is, nothing seems to affect him. Did you ever see the movie "Clean Slate" with Dana Carvey? It's one of my favs. Dana plays a guy who loses his memory every night when he goes to sleep. It's a 1994 movie but it's worth seeing. Especially his girl friend Valeria Golino, what a babe. Anyway, sometimes Madore seems like that. Water just runs off his back and if he gets pissed about something, he just eliminates it from his "realm" and it's over. No harm, no foul. This is very scarey to me, a little on the sociopath side, I think.

hawkeye — November 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

the rest

19. Sestak, we’ll take care of you: Former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel used Bill Clinton as an intermediary to probe whether former Rep. Joe Sestak (D-Pa.) would accept a prominent, unpaid White House advisory position in exchange for dropping out of the 2010 primary against former Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.).

20. I’ll pass my own laws: Obama has repeatedly been accused of making end runs around Congress by deciding which laws to enforce, including the decision not to deport illegal immigrants who may have been allowed to stay in the United States had Congress passed the “Dream Act.”

21. The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer: It’s not clear who hacked the CBS reporter’s computer as she investigated the Benghazi scandal, but the Obama administration and its allies had both the motive and the means to do it.

22. An American Political Prisoner: The sudden decision to arrest Nakoula Basseley Nakoula on unrelated charges after protests in the Arab world over his anti-Muslim video is an extraordinarily suspicious coincidence. “We’re going to go out and we’re going to prosecute the person that made that video,” Hillary Clinton allegedly told the father of one of the ex-SEALs killed in Banghazi.

23. Get rid of inconvenient IGs: Corporation for National and Community Service Inspector General Gerald Walpin was fired in 2009 as he fought wasteful spending and investigated a friend of Obama’s, Sacramento Mayor and former NBA player Kevin Johnson. The White House says Walpin was incompetent.

24. Influence peddling: An investigation is underway of Alejandro Mayorkas, director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, who has been nominated by Obama for the number two post at the Department of Homeland Security. Mayorkas may have used his position to unfairly obtain U.S. visas for foreign investors in company run by Hillary Clinton’s brother, Anthony Rodman.

Do you really trust what he says, Just a question. And do you think he has lied at all during his presidency... Would you have over for a beer to your house, or the neighborhood Saloon.

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"What exactly is coercive in this environment? Having to sit and listen to this prayer?" Chief Justice John Roberts Jr. asked rhetorically. "They're asked to participate, but not in any tangible way. Everybody's just sitting there."

Maybe I'm way off here, but wtf does his opinion have to do with ruling whether or nor prayer before a public meeting is constitutional or not? It's been 45 years since I studied US government, but.......

Vanwa-a few good questions there but most appear to be political bs. I'd be much more concerned about the NSA "gone wild" and Obama setting up an environment where the prez can wage his own little private wars with his own little private army.

mrd — November 6, 2013 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

In Vegas, careful what type of pair you gamble on. ;}

And if you really think doubling down on 6's is a good thing, we need to play some cards sometime.

I didn't mean to wax negative. My Peetown statement goes to a sincere "why do they feel that way"? type thing. I wish Vancouver's relationship with Portland had more warm & fuzzies-but not to be.

On the religion thing. I suppose I get your question in the abstract, and I've addressed this before with a few other posters who throw around the word "hate" as if it were a smelly sock. Thanks for not doing so.

I think the infusion of any religion into politics is wrong. Big time. I have no animosity towards Christianity, Judaism, Muslim etc. Someone's personal belief in a God, Gods, Spirits etc. should be left at the alter, not in the pulpit of the U.S. Congress, and certainly not as a credibility benchmark of a local politician.

Madore touts his evangelical view for all to see, and insists on speaking with his God and mixing it up in a political/public manner. (contrary to Jesus admonishing his followers to be in this world but not of it) His actions and words are seemingly contrary to his beliefs, but as with most ego-driven ideologues he doesn't see it, and most likely never will.

I have friends and family who are of the Christian persuasion and more power to them. I've worked with people of all faiths, and more power to them. But when they inject their religion into political conversation and trump it as a point I say whoa.

I consider myself to be somewhat spiritual. But certainly don't feel superior or more "in the know" as the next person. I've found out in life the more I think I know, only causes me to understand how much I have to learn. That Tao thing on a certain level.

Anyway, didn't mean to ramble too much. Actually I enjoy discussing various philosophy's and religions. I just dislike any of them to be used to control and misinform people, and that's exactly what infusing them into politics does. Or is it do. Anyway...:)

Peace out-God Bless-Nothing wrong with a great pair-amen

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. If you're going to reprint stuff like that, at least credit your source. Have you learned nothing from Sen. Paul's lessons on the perils of plagiarism?

JohnK — November 6, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So your good to go about Obamacare. ? Is that what your saying. You can keep your plan, your doctor and your going to save 2500 a year for the "average family"....

You don't think he has lied in any way shape or form or maybe Miss Spoken..?? You think he had nothing to do about the IRS they just acted by thenselves huh.. Yikes.. Please don't say that is so.. That just makes a grown man wanna go outside and pee all over my neighbors car tires like Fido is doing right now.. LM$AO rt now...So you think everytime the pres is saying something now, your not thinking, Hum is he trying to sell me some of that Presidential Snake Ointment.. Local policitcs is no Fodder compared to this guy.. What he has done personally has cost me money, The local guys haven't cost me or any other American money... This lone act is costing people more money.. Pitiful how people still support his agenda. But there is hope 100% of Dems supported the ACA, come 14. we'll be seeing a few of them singing a different song. They already are distancing themselves and saying the president said this and that would happen but it's not our fault.. I guess they should have read the bill before they signded it.. 20/20 hindsight is ignorance not Bliss. I deal with everyday people asking how can this be.. I say it's above my pay grade... and when I go home at night you just try to put the day behind ya.

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Everyone have a good day and remember it's only politics. It is not life and death."

JohnCasey — November 6, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.

Well stated. Sometimes perspective can run afoul. Thanks for that and hope things are going well.


hawkeye — November 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.

I agree. If anything he'll dig in his heels deeper. He has a following who seems to literally worship him. His pettiness is only matched by his ego, and his followers applaud him at every turn.


(((((Does anyone know if Madore's ever been confronted publicly about his FB comment advocating violence if things don't go his way? I don't watch all the meetings and I wouldn't be surprised if Sunrise O'Mahoney or another community activist hadn't done so. He needs to be taken to task on this matter as well as supporting a member of a terrorist organization for public office.)))))

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Unknown to many of you, Madonis has the plant capacity, tooling to include cnc machines, skilled people, drones in his R&D; to equip a local Army to fight for his purpose if he wanted to, even to set up spy drones all over the place. He can do that in a heart beat.

That guy is a potential threat. He should not be underestimated. That is why he has a following, they see him as a sure bet if all hell breaks loose. The real problem besides his ideology, is his indoctrination in evangelism. You add those two elements, money and a cause that is political in nature, you have mighty potential for real turmoil.

All of you ought to take a tour of his facility. I recommend it highly.

How do I fit in this picture? I can smell trouble a thousand miles away. Follow the history of this guy. He is in this locality for a reason. I truly believe that he is part of a larger plan. Not trying to sound paranoid but the guy has a psychological problem that to me is obvious and many have not figured out yet.

Time will weave this story, that is all I say... ***

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

John K

Read my first post and I said it was from the White house Dossier and Plagairized....I made that abunduntly clear...Hope that helps.. And really does anyone who has lived the past 5 years need anything like this asking for a source, unless you've been under a rock. Not to insinuate You have ben but please. Like I said the ACA is crippling many thousands of people just in Clark County... Were right now just subsidizing a few thousand who have signed up for Medicare under the new plan. Which means we haven't signed up enough healthy "PREMIUM PAYING" folks to insure the integrity of the new law.. How are people to come up with $100 no $200 No $500 more a month for their healthcare.. It is a sad state right now... The first thing people say is well the "president said"..Yep and I bite my tongue and just let them know what there options are... There are options.. Not to say they arn't. Most people who can't afford to move to a similar plan and opt for a lessor coverage plan at still a little bit more than what they were paying before. Lets not even get started with those who had no health care before. Gotta go Peace and health to ll the basement dwellers...

vanwadreamer — November 6, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For those following events up north, a very interesting article showed up in the Seattle Times. Remember how Gov Inslee came out yesterday and said Boeing wants a Trans package or they're building a new plane elsewhere? Well, they've got an article today that links to a summary of the machinist union's proposed contract from Boeing - if they approve it when they meet to vote next Wednesday, then Boeing agrees to build the plane here. The contract is for 8 years. It appears that as far as the union is concerned their contract is what will make or break the deal; no mention of the need for the Transportation budget. Most interesting. Inslee's aerospace office director seems a bit concerned.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That SeaTac Prop 1 to require a minimum wage of $15/hour is still leading by about 6%. That count is frustratingly slow. They've counted 3,697 votes, out of a total of 12,100 registered voters citywide. They appear to have no idea when this will be finished - no mention on whether counting is slow, or if they think there were a lot of last minute ballots mailed. Maybe tomorrow. As noted, Seattle's outgoing mayor and mayor-elect both indicated they were watching this vote closely and that they favored its passage. If this does pass and is implemented, it ought to result in a lot of press as others look to push something similar.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Update now

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Everyone have a good day and remember it's only politics. It is not life and death. -- JohnCasey — November 6, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.

A rather strange outlook in my opinion JohnCasey. Politics is frequently, very frequently, about life and death. The most obvious example is about committing a nation to war. To paraphrase Von Clausewitz: “war is a continuation of politics by other means”. Aside from that, there’s all manner of budgeting priority and properness disagreements. One of which pits money spent for the social welfare state versus basic services. So just how many die from lack of adequate police and fire response when basic services are cut? And how many times have you heard the phrase about people dying in the streets if the welfare payments are cut? A whole bunch, that’s how much. There are even issues of lite rail being a conduit for gang bangers bringing crime into Clark County. We’ve all seen stories about assaults, including murder, which have happened at MAX platforms. Minorities, including gays have sometimes been murdered apparently for their minority status. One response has been to legislate laws about hate crimes. I think that’s wrong because murder is murder no matter who the victim is or for what ever reason. But that’s politics. And then there’s the drug laws. Question: how many die of drug overdoses, versus how many die from drug wars, how many are innocent bystanders in the line of fire, how many die in prison? One idea is that making drugs illegal is about saving lives, but a case can be made that exactly the opposite is true. The correlation between politics and life and death is seemingly endless. Politics is all about life and death.

kn_dalai — November 6, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK --- Here's the site vanwadreamer shared:

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Something just posted to the Tacoma News Tribune. The machinist union president is taking a delegation to Oly tomorrow to personally lobby legislators "to support the Governor’s package of 777X proposals, including the transportation plan. “Any suggestion that the union thinks Legislative action isn’t necessary is simply wrong.”"

From Boeing, as released from the Gov's office:

Dear Governor Inslee:

Pursuant to our discussions this week, Boeing is committed to placing 777X final assembly and wing fabrication in the Puget Sound region. This commitment, however, will be solidified if the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) District 751 contract proposal is ratified in a vote by the membership next week and favorable economic incentives are implemented by the State of Washington.


Ray Conner

Senator Tom addressed this yesterday. What these economic incentives are isn't getting much press, but Toms indicated immediate passage of the Trans budget was not critical to the overall Boeing discussion.

This sure sounds like an end run agreed upon between the Gov's office and the heads of the union. We'll see. (I'm expecting Patty Murray to weigh in any time now!)

roger — November 6, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Statistically, Leavitts vote difference has held just fine. Sorry Turley, to the retirement home you go, bye bye. Next time put your 40 year record for everyone to see. Something never felt right with your candidacy. Time to play with the grandkids!

Congratulations to the Re-elected Mayor of Vancouver, Mr. Tim Leavitt! I hated to see a guy stepped on by right wing extremists and nobody did anything about it! That is why I supported him. We need young guns to lead progress. This town can do way better if it steps into the future with family wage jobs, not the bottom of the barrel they threw from California and their cookie cutters wood house and apartments, illegal immigrant built commanded by slave trade developers from California and around here.

nicepuppy — November 6, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Thanks. I tried searching for the source, but included plagiarism in the search terms. Apparently the list has been making the rounds of the lesser known RW sites over the last several days. I expect to get an email w/att from Uncle Harry any day now......

JohnK — November 6, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 4:24 PM: Our own civility czar, moi, emailed Madore directly about some of the threatening FB posts on his site, specifically a guy named Allen Hoff. He had already tried to reign in Christian Berrigan. You wield a great deal of power, I said, so use it to calm the rhetoric, not escalate it.

I thought Hoff's comment was a clear threat of violence, an uprising. Very similar to Christian Berrigan's words on the earlier post and later in the BOCC meeting blustering at Stuart.

I cc'd Steve Stuart and Tom Mielke and heard back from Stuart first: let me know if and how he responds to you. Mielke: nada, as usual. He probably could not understand the terms I used.

Madore responded a little later in the day and promised to discourage that kind of talk. He did. Hoff got defensive and blamed the reader for misinterpreting him. The I-was-only-kidding-can't-you-take-a-joke defense. Haven't heard from Hoff since.

He probably went underground, on the down-and-low, with all the other doomsayers, who believe Clark County is the devil's playground and Tim Leavitt is Satan's right hand man. :(

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregonians are becoming increasingly concerned over the wisdom of Gov Kitz's go it alone plan.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I hope you are not too worried about the CRC. I really think it will be a miracle if the Oregon legislators follow through.

I heard it somewhere (better check on it) that Kitz is being considered for an Obama Administration job. Something to do with the ACA. He doesn't have time for this fight.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding Madore's resolution from approx 5:55 pm today on Clark County Citizens for Good Governance:

[from] Betty Sue Morris I haven't watched the Tuesday hearing yet and will comment after I do. But given last night's election results, I don't think it makes a bit of difference whether the resolution passes or not. No one's going to pay any attention to it, just like no one's going to pay much attention to anything Madore suggests. By opposing so many candidates in Camas, Ridgefield and Vancouver, and losing them all, who's goin to vote with him at C-Tran or RTC. His reputatioin is toast, except for being extremely ineffective. He seems to excel at that!

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Congrats, Manthou. So, do you think the cc: to the other two compelled him to respond and then act? Or was it your own persuasiveness? I'll opt for the latter.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, I think it was so close to that Berrigan berating that everyone at the BOCC was on edge, for good reason. I truly thought Berrigan was gonna pull a gun out from under the table.

I had nothing to do with it. My email just gave someone an opportunity to have a sit-down with Madore.

It is the ONLY positive response I have ever received from the good Commish out of the many attempts I have made.

I don't give up easily. :)

langenthal: Betty Sue knows how government works, doesn't she? Madore did not realize, when he started dissing all those C-Tran Board members, staff and Steve Stuart, that he might actually NEED their support someday. What a tool.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Maddow is putting out some stats about last nights Virginia win. Staggering! It's the first time since 1885 that a Virginia Gov has not been re-elected to a second term. All this and more to include, as luvit aptly pointed out last night, a flawed candidate for the Dems. So much more as to how significant this Virginia win was. I'll look for a replay for the forum tomorrow to include some amazing stats. Her show is on again at 9:00. (if anyone can refute her stats please do so)

And this coming on the heels of a GOP Bob McDonnell 17% point margin win four years ago. (who, btw, might be going to jail in the near future)

Also favorability with the ACA polling is going up despite the crappy roll out. Amazing stories of real people with names and faces getting great care at lower rates-unlike Fox news? :)

This is what republicans worst fears are. It's why they've gambled it all on destroying it. As this ACA success continues it will pump folks up and provides real hope to take the house next year.

I watched an interview yesterday with Kentucky's gov and it was quite inspirational. Tens of thousands getting great plans at affordable prices. This stuff is getting exciting.

All this hoopla about Obamacare will make these hardline politicians look absolutely foolish as time go on. The House in 14!

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal - Thanks for the link.

Wow - I managed to get over 3000 votes. I expected maybe 50 - 100. I am disappointed, however. As I scan the list of freeholder candidates, the leader in almost every (if not every) race is a politician or someone active in one of the two main political parties. It would have been nice if a few of us "nobodys" had snuck in. Oh well. What interests me about this is that even though the percentage of those calling themselves Independents continues to rise, it's become almost impossible for someone without a (D) or (R) to get elected. Probably the money required to run.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jan Angel has opened a slight 4% lead in the 26th. This one will probably go to a recount.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 6 p.m.

Thank you for your activism! We're truly lucky that you give your time to this forum.

My main concern was Madore's words that he himself posted advocating violence, was this addressed? (APIL "we've found the next level" article) This along with his advocating support for public office of a tax cheating nut belonging to a noted terrorist group.

Alan used to post here as many remember. His rants were many times incoherent and I suspect alcohol was a big factor. Doesn't make him any less threatening, just remembering. In my mind, from watching Berrigan at hearings, he's all talk and would crap his pants in a real confrontation. Just my opinion.

These nuts need to be dealt with and I'm glad you've got the ears of the right people. I guess law enforcement would be the next step? I can picture the po po's hauling Dave out of US Digital for inciting a riot. (alright, a little over the top here, but I'm still excited about current events:)

These threats, along with the extreme vitriol, (mainly from the right side of the aisle) need to stop. I hope it doesn't take a headline event to curb this brand of crap. Madore's klan might listen to him. Although from his past words, he might do it with a wink and a nod-behind the scenes saying something else.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregonians are becoming increasingly concerned over the wisdom of Gov Kitz's go it alone plan.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6 p.m

Roger, while out n about today I heard a news story about a county IN Oregon that is refusing to raise taxes on the people. Kitz has threatened them with.. taking over the town's government and imposing a tax increase anyway. Seems old Kitz boy is looking for every penny he can gets his grubby hands on for the CRC.

I told manthou weeks ago to watch what goes on in Oregon, follow the money..

ELISI — November 6, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 6, 2013 at 5:31 p.m.

Dude, you sound a little, no, make that a lot, disgruntled. You're going to end up with an aneurism or something.

Kick back, turn off the comp, turn on a little easy listening music and chill for a while. Maybe even a little Brandy. It ain't life or death today, OK?

hawkeye — November 6, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm going to have to check Madore's facebook page more often - that's some good squabbling going on under his 11/05 banner. First Melissa Smith and Jeff Guard go after Madore. Then Rufus Parsnip blindsides Melissa, and she and Jeff have it out with Rufe for about an hour. Then a couple of hours of people praising Madore. Suddenly, someone remembers Melissa called the anti-CRC crowd yahoos, which is enough to get Deb Peterson riled up. And, after several more comments, Rufus decides to sum things up by declaring the most important vote - the LRT advisory one - is an overwhelming victory and the good guys have carried the day.

You know - it's a good thing we have dogbreath, or we'd never be able to compete with that crowd.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I agree that the odds of the Oregon legislature supporting the new CRC are growing slimmer as time passes. However, there's too much money involved for it to go away - Port of Portland wants it (I suspect for their Hayden Island expansion), and then Gramor and all the others banking on that revitalization plan. I still expect the two Govs and their DOT chiefs to powwow and see if they can push something forward without a legislative mandate in either state. I'm thinking both Rose and Manning are sensing something similar. Manning's opinion piece on tolling lays the risk out in a very clear and detailed manner, and the commentary is overwhelmingly against the project continuing.

roger — November 6, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 6, 2013 at 6:31 p.m.

Don't sell yourself short, roger. Your comments on FB and here in the dungeon have been noticed. Regarding politicians winning positions as freeholders...I believe they monopolized the positions on purpose to prevent the members of our community from gaining a foothold in local government. They wanted to strengthen their grip and have succeeded. (my perspective)

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What you heard was Curry County. For the second time, they voted down a property tax increase for law enforcement. They've only got 6 county deputies, and I sort of recall them shutting down their county jail after the last election. When that happened, the Curry County Commissioners got with the state Legislature and got them to pass a law allowing Gov Kitz to impose his own taxes on them to support pubic services if the voters refuse the county tax measure again. They did, and now it's his turn to act.

There's more to the story. Curry is a very poor county, which has never recovered from the demise of the logging industry. Town and city funding measures are passing, and the County voters passed a hospital funding measure by a wide margin.

I can't speak from personal knowledge, but I've heard a story or two about why a lot of people don't want too many county cops patrolling the countryside. A couple of news articles I found may confirm this. People have to make a living somehow.;=1&story;=9402

roger — November 6, 2013 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe they monopolized the positions on purpose to prevent the members of our community from gaining a foothold in local government. They wanted to strengthen their grip and have succeeded. (my perspective)

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.


Do you believe this was a collaborative effort from both parties? A bi-partisan effort? Or just both parties having the same agenda working separately. Were secret meetings conducted to map out this conspiratorial effort? I'd love to hear of any information you have that lends credence to your perspective.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 8:07 p.m.

Good evening, nails. To I don't think it was a collaborative effort from both parties. I think each who made that decision to run for a freeholder position...signed on to take the position on their own in order to gain more an addiction, lol. Conspiratorial in nature? Hardly. Just a hunch on my part...hence the two words in parenthesis after my comment.

goldenoldie — November 6, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I understand what you are saying.

It will be interesting to see which Freeholder blogs or tweets honestly about their experience during the charter process.

Remember how Liz Pike sashayed into the BOCC hearing on Tuesday and "schooled" everyone on how civil the legislators know how to be to each other in Olympia? What a turn-off, condescending lecture! Everyone saw through the hypocrisy of her performance.

I can picture all the "veteran" and current sitting legislators doing the same thing to the peon citizen Freeholders, who are in the minority. I include Jim Moeller on that list, as I know he can be arrogant and know-it-all. I saw it in action at the Democratic State Convention. I was one of the peon citizens who was supposed to follow his lead like a nicepuppy. :)

The only one who will be gracious and humble is Val Ogden. Count on that.

Will they reach a consensus? Hope so. There is a book in this experience. Maybe Temple will write it.

roger, you may have been handed a real gift with those 3,000 plus votes. Although I recommend you find a place for yourself in local politics. Maybe PCO (precinct committee chair)?

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the explanation goldenoldie. One part of me was hoping both parties had finally reached a consensus on something and were working together. :) The other part was just fielding a question from ace news journalist Kent Brockman.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Clark County may be booted from the risk pool insurance on Friday? Who negotiated the settlement for the plaintiffs? Which county attorney(s)?

They erred big time, it appears, by agreeing to a clause that allows the plaintiffs' attorneys (I know one of these guys: he is a pit bull) to sue the insurance pool for millions more? And that this agreement they made broke the agreement Clark County had with the insurance pool?

Who's on first in the legal department?

So the commissioners want to send an apology letter to the insurance pool: We're so sorry. Give us another chance. I cannot help but think the insurance pool is looking at the pending tort claim of Anita Largent and thinking, we have an excuse now, let's dump these losers before we have to pay for this blunder.

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 6, 2013 at 7:42 p.m

Thanks I had no idea. I didn't get much info from the mews cast I heard on the radio, so didn't know it was Curry county or the trouble they have there.
Curry sound like Humboldt count in northern Ca.

ELISI — November 6, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Opps "mews" should be news..dang parrot is screaming. "here kitty, kitty"
I should have never taught him that.

ELISI — November 6, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In case you are having a rough day, here's a stress management technique recommended in all the latest psychological journals. The funny thing is that it really does work and will make you smile.
1. Picture yourself lying on your belly on a warm rock that hangs out over a crystal clear stream.
2. Picture yourself with both your hands dangling in the cool running water.
3. Birds are sweetly singing in the cool mountain air.
4. No one knows your secret place.
5. You are in total seclusion from that hectic place called the world.
6. The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
7. The water is so clear that you can make out the face of the Politician you are holding underwater.

See it worked. You're smiling. You're feeling better already.

ELISI — November 6, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- If you go to DM FB approx 10/24-27*, you will notice that he says he was very involved with the attorneys working on the settlement. That was my first thought when I saw this on Twitter today. I am still appalled that he and Mielke referred to the men as criminals and DM had his little joke using the word "allegedly". They never acknowledged the county's role. I can't imagine why he was working closely with attorneys, except I can.

*Sorry, I limit my exposure to his FB posts and the sycophants who genuflect in his virtual presence. Otherwise, I would go back and read it again.

langenthal — November 6, 2013 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


fwiw, i voted for the person who had the least political experience in every instance. if their little blurb indicated they had a political agenda, out they went. val ogden? >GAG< i remember her in the council. the penultimate insider.

i wonder if all those of you who voted for the politically-connected candidates will have the gall in the future to say anything about needing 'outsiders' and/or voting out all incumbents.

DeeLittle — November 6, 2013 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal



i have a terrible time sleeping, so i'm gonna try that tonight :)

DeeLittle — November 6, 2013 at 11:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.

EXACTLY!!! I appreciate the fact that you understood just what it was I was trying to say. I know sometimes, I send a mixed message...and I'm trying to change that, but this time around, I went straight to the point. Thank you.

nailingit — November 6, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.

Oh, if they could only have a meeting of the minds. Maybe some work COULD get accomplished and the end result would be something we could all agree upon!!!

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 6, 2013 at 11:36 p.m.

I too chose those without a professional political experience behind them, but I chose who I also thought had the best interests of the people of Clark County.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 5:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 6, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. -- I'm not sure what a precinct committee chair is/does, but I can't run for a partisan office.

I do agree, to a great degree, with Goldie. Mielke originally wanted the freeholders identified by political party, but they went with the nonpartisan approach to get it on the ballot. And while the uproar over the Benton hiring, and the subsequent crashing of the Recall Madore movement, caused many to believe this was all about controlling the Madore's of the area, the reality is that the Repub party was already pushing the process on their own. As near as I could determine, they believed there was enough growth outside Vancouver/49th District that they believed they could strengthen the Repub majority of the County Comms with more districts. (One reason I thought staying with three was best - I don't like a Repub stranglehold any more than a Dem one.)

Anyhow, the Dem party openly indicated their choice of candidates. The Repubs didn't do so officially (due to their own internal struggles), but when you see things like pushing "small government" and then supporting Liz Pike over John Burke (Libertarian) because of name draw -- well, the local Repubs were playing.

Burke has a decent analysis of where the Repubs are in his comment to the Columbian article on this today. I tend to agree with him that the "old school" types will control the process, and that the end result will probably be nothing. Both sides get scared when new folks with no allegiance to the two party system show up and want to play.

roger — November 7, 2013 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 7, 2013 at 5:53 a.m.

It seems these days that the elected officials try to forget who hired them and would rather distance themselves FROM the people rather than work WITH the people. They'll scoop up any position they can to prevent the newcomers from opening "Pandora's Box." Of course, this is my opinion, though. No evidence to the statement...just my thoughts.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 6, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

Hard for me to see how you can come up with "disgruntled" based on my comments. Whatever.

kn_dalai — November 7, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Early morning Bark! ***

What fair is fair so here I go.... The word liar was used for free ad nauseum against Tim Leavitt because of his reversal concerning his toll position. A truck was parading down the street with a sign, signs, flyers, blogging, hired junkies (where are they Berrigan?) and on and on.

Yesterday, Osama Mad-Laden Mad-onis announced on his FB page that the County payables will be displayed on line. So, I went to take a look and immediately complained that it was as if nothing because there is no detail, no invoice, no check to see. The level of detail is absent. A total amount and a generic description. BFD! What good does it do to the tax paying citizens if they can't see the whole truth about where the money is going, when, how much, to whom and why.... If you want to sanitize corruption you at least have to have the boss to look at the numbers. Who is the boss? Not him, not the County Administrator, not the Auditor, not the Commissioners, it is everyone of the citizens interested in knowing where their money is going.

Well, lo and behold, the first to complain but in the opposite direction as mine was the Sheriff. Imagine that. We can't find out how many tanks and bullets they are buying to kill us in case the situation arises. Who is the boss? Well, we aren't?

What did Osama MAd-Laden Mad-onis do? He backpedaled so fast, game no explanation what so ever and reversed his position, and he claimed he does the will of the voters. I mean, can you be more ambiguous and dishonest? Another thing would have been to get into a serious "public discussion" with the Sheriff to state his reasons to hide his numbers.

What is the problem? What part of a racket doesn't everybody understand? Where is the "boss" supervision? (taxpayers).

So, this tells us that we ought to seriously question this tax paying thing when there is no accountability.

Osama Mad-Laden Mad-onis, you not only are dishonest, ineffective but your "courage" doesn't amount to anything. Blah blah blah and more blah... A local Sheriff "below you", told you how is it going to be, you placed your tail between your legs and on to another lie you went....shameful, embarrassing and voter treason! You seem to use "the voters will" only when it suits you....

Just resign man, you are a bad joke now, not even laughable...


nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

For me, the the statement I made was solely in reference to the elections. I won't get into a pi$$ing match about making war, social service cuts, and the war on drugs. Yes we all know that politicians are, for the most part, #1 lawyers and #2 get dirty real quick if they aren't already. Hence we have the problems we have had, in some form or another, through out our nations history.

The laws we have enacted have supposedly been for the betterment of our country and society. Some of those laws have done the complete opposite. Now we can bitch and moan but the only way we as members of a free society is to vote and hope the people we elect do a good job. If they don't we have to the option of voting them out.

I always say that the day after elections is a hangover day. It's either you won and celebrated too much or you lost and you're bemoaning that fact. It's definitely not a perfect system but it has worked for over 200 years. We have refined it and it is still a work in progress. When I think about some of the other countries and their system of politics and rule I truly believe we still have the best.

I must be getting old when I ramble like this. Like I said I hope you all have a nice day. Life is too short to worry about tomorrow and too precious to worry about yesterday. Try to live life like ... well you know the rest.

JohnCasey — November 7, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — November 7, 2013 at 7:23 a.m.

The Words of the Wise One...

And I'm being honest.


goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 10:03 am: Wow. I had not seen that FB brag of Madore's. I doubt he had any legal knowledge influence on the attorney(s) who negotiated the settlement. He is just doing his typical bragging and taking credit dance. I hope. :)

One of the plaintiff's attorneys in that wrongful imprisonment settlement is well-aware of Mielke's "criminal" talk and has seen the video of that exchange at the Board Hearing: Bruce Barnes chiding him for it and Madore trying to back pedal him. The whole shebang. Hooray for video evidence. :) Mielke is doing the same game now with the Largent tort claim: declaring he and Madore did not violate county hiring policy on video with his silly, over-confident smirk. I cannot wait for an attorney to cross examine that irresponsible clown or depose him.

How did Tiffany Couch's documents wind up on the Clark County "grid?"

I am relieved this morning to see that the link to the documents she produced for her private client, David Madore, can no longer be accessed on the "grid."

I believe that the only documents that should be posted there are documents produced by Clark County staff members and elected officials. Including her documents implies they have been vetted by Clark County or that they have been co-produced by Clark County.

I am not making any value judgments about Tiffany Couch's work. I am sure she follows ethical best practices for her profession. However, unless she is hired by or formally collaborates with Clark County, her products do not belong on the county website.

I guess we know who put them up there. What will he try to get away with next? I swear, if David Madore were a student in a public school, he would be assigned a full-time personal aide for the safety of others. :) That guy is beyond slick.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John Casey.....

" It's definitely not a perfect system but it has worked for over 200 years."

You must be kidding. It hasn't worked at all for the majority. How can I tell? Easy....go to the Forbes list of billionaires.....then dig inside your own pockets...

How is it working for you?

This is the biggest scam in history. Not saying that there is any better anywhere else, just not accepting that we can't do better than this. The vehicles of change are not only designed for no change but if only 20+ percent of the citizens vote, it is not representative of the majority. Wherever you have a voluntary voting system, you have a tyranny in a way. Wherever you have a privately financed political campaign system with no limits and the Supreme Court backing up the scam, you have a tyranny.

I think that you are 100% wrong in your statement and presently we are witnessing a complete collapse of the scam. It is not sustainable. Now we have communication tools among citizens worldwide and change will happen. It is inevitable.

My prediction is that if prosperity is not found for the majority, we will have the biggest world war this world has ever seen. All the conditions are set for that to happen.

Case in point, the CRC/LRT and the "advisory vote". Almost 70% of one locality rejected the project for whatever reason and/or influence. Would it make a difference in the whole picture? I don't think so because it is not binding, so it is a waste of time used for propaganda purposes only to influence the ignorant that possibly have never used mass transportation of that kind, probably never lived in a big city.

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian may need to consider assigning a full-time reporter to David Madore only. I swear, if it weren't for my reliable sources on the Forum, I would not be able to keep up with the news and controversy this guy generates all on his own. :) No one can. It has become a joint effort between the professional journalists and the citizen watchdogs. I have not seen anything like it in my life. Exhausting.

So, Sheriff Garry Lucas emailed Madore, complaining that the online checkbook exposed some information that should be kept confidential.

My guess: payments made to confidential sources that provide information in criminal investigations. Those sources' names were revealed when the warrants were listed. Probably life-threatening to the sources. Very serious.

Just an educated guess.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry for the Forum hogging by my posts today. Here's another aspect I had not considered:

Does breaching confidentiality, even if only for a short time, expose the County to more lawsuit risks? Can those persons whose identity were revealed, come after the county?

Here is an insightful post on Madore's FB today that asks that implies that prospect:

By Chis Gilson: "Am I overstating this, or did you really just tell us via facebook that the county released confidential data. Wouldn't it have been better to not say anything? It seems like the option dump to csv/excel has been available for a few days …"

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's my solution to Madore's rogue behavior:

The county should make him personally liable.

That's right. Any legal action brought against the county based on Madore's unilateral decisions (does he ever consult?) should be placed squarely on his own shoulders and pocketbook.

School districts do that when teachers go rogue.

County and city governments should consider it, too.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My question is why should it be any confidentiality when these people use our money and our delegated authority? Do we loose "ownership" and are just dummies paying the bills?

This is the biggest scam ever thought.

If you want to shine a light in corruption, every corned has to shined to see where the cockroaches hide....

No contract, no invoice, no check ought to be confidential. None, Zero, Nada!

Otherwise we are accepting and are part of the scam ourselves!

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ops, let me correct my typos...

If you want to shine a light on corruption, every corner has to be illuminated in order to see where the cockroaches hide....

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If it was disclosure of confidential source identities, life and limb are at risk, as well as criminal investigations. If we want to reduce crime and prosecute bad guys, we sometimes have to spend some time in bed with their pals. And then we need to protect these sources because they helped us.

Seems to me, nicepuppy, that the end justifies the means in cases like that, but reasonable folks can disagree, of course.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I would think that the county would have a budget for moneys spent on informants. The amount they did spend could be made public without revealing any names. I would think.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Let's use journalism as an example: what would happen to investigative journalism if its credible sources knew their identities would be revealed?

Journalists go to jail sometimes, rather than revealing their sources identities.

Cops can feel the same way about their confidential sources.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Or….why do we have whistleblower protection acts?

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Absolutely right. Problem is, the county checkbook may have included the specific names of confidential sources for several days, if this, indeed, is the issue Sheriff Lucas was upset with David Madore about. It appears it is fixed now to his satisfaction.

I am only guessing, of course.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I disagree Manthou.

I think that you create a gray area when you use that methodology. I do agree with timerick in a sense that the identity could be kept in hiding but...........susceptible to subpoena if someone wants to inquire about it and has a valid reason.

This gray area I think it creates two corrupted entities, the cops and the bandits trying to get a reduced sentence in exchange. With all the surveillance technology available today, the paid informant is kind of obsolete in many type of cases.

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy: Oh, how I wish the entire population were altruistic and donated their information and time for the greater good of public safety without asking anything in return. I am not joking or being sarcastic.

When we find a way to snare criminals without paid snitches, I'll fund it gladly. :)

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I would like to see the Sheriff Dept.'s income from federal sources and monies received from the sale of forfeited property. Is there a place I can find that?

Drift — November 7, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice perpsective on the religous side. Very well said and I agree with your comments.. Nice job of clarification..Au Pair:)

vanwadreamer — November 7, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Great perspective with making those who abuse their office culpable. How do we get this on?

Confidential informants-surveillance resources-internal probes using outside sources-internal friction caused from resources deemed unequally spent-payoffs to already incarcerated for info-people aren't stupid in the biz and those from without will do anything to avoid detection/incarceration.The maybe's with this are endless.

Imagine if this were to happen in a larger venue, say New York or L.A.

Could this be what finally brings Madore down? I don't know. But I've got a gut feeling this guy will not finish out his term.

Common sense stuff like this makes me realize this motion control activist isn't all that smart overall. A targeted intelligence, but beyond that...

He's like a bull in a China shop...except we're the merchandise that's getting knocked over.

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd like to see receipts from confiscated drugs they resell on the streets. No doubt Portland comes into play- :-O

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Remember a couple years ago when VPD were "undercover" receiving sexual favors as part of a sting? How much taxpayer dollars went to hookers and dope for this and other related activities. Something to keep in mind, there's a lot of po po's who are every bit as crooked as those they're paid to get off the streets. Whether this info would speak to this type of stuff with the County I don't know. I'd like to open up po po's "discretionary" spending and itemize that! :))

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 9:38 am: I totally agree with your hunch that Madore will not finish out his term. He will either resign for some fabricated family/business related excuse, or he will be escorted off the premises by law enforcement.

It is just a matter of time.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think that he will commit suicide Manthou....

People like him have an ego so gigantic that if they are shamed to the extreme, they "auto-eliminate" themselves.

Too bad that the God of walmart box of churches will shut the doors to his ilk. I needed you to steal some more ya dumb a$$, go talk to Lucifer and burn in hell!!!!!!!!!!


nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Someone dropped the ball on the record release. Either someone in the Sheriff's Office, or more likely, a County employee pressured by a micro-managing Commissioner with a history of jumping the gun and challenging the professional judgements of County staff.

And why would the Sheriff call Madore, rather than someone in the PIO office or the County Administrator to get the information removed? Strange...

JohnK — November 7, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Perhaps the sheriff knew who was directly responsible and went to the source.

There is a good reason why Garry Lucas ran for and won a Freeholder spot. :)

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"-- consider that Washington and Colorado are the only states that have legalized the drug for recreational use --"

-----In my view, this publication needs to keep up with the times.-----

Portland, Maine, Legalizes Recreational Marijuana

Portland, Maine, voters on Tuesday approved legalizing recreational marijuana for residents 21 and older. The measure, Question 1, passed with about 70 percent of the vote, making Portland the first East Coast city to legalize recreational pot.

Adult residents of Portland -- Maine's largest city -- may possess up to 2.5 ounces of marijuana under the referendum. The new measure does not permit the recreational purchase or sale of marijuana, nor does it permit its use in public spaces like parks.

"Most Portlanders, like most Americans, are fed up with our nation's failed marijuana prohibition laws," said David Boyer of the Marijuana Policy Project, a marijuana advocacy group. "We applaud Portland voters for adopting a smarter marijuana policy, and we look forward to working with city officials to ensure it is implemented."

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, all these late events tell me that the Clark County Services Building is in turmoil as we speak.

Madonis is crashing the status quo. The status quo of secrecy and mismanagement of taxpayer monies. Under Barron there was a chain of command. People were terrified of him. It got so bad that a memo from the higher ups went around stating not to say anything that can be printed in the news media. I mean to say that from an executive to me shows presumption of guilt.

There was advice given by Department Heads not to charge expenses that may not pass the "smell test". It is all in the records people. Don't act surprised.

The chain of command is broken at the County right now. It is obvious. Madonis is acting as the Official Clark County Washington Press Release Office to the world. That to me is a bit weird. Clark County ought to have one voice and only one voice. Madonis unless there is something I don't know has self appointed himself to be "the one". That is unfair to the other Commissioners and administrators which are more likely executing this changes.

Concerning Sheriff Lucas, something stinks in that Department I dare to speculate. They are not used to transparency. Cops live in their own bubble and they don't like people doing the "smell test".

Something stinks really bad at the CCPSB and Madonis is just "for now" the "colonoscope" and is finding or about to find a lot of $hit bits in the CC pipe.....


nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.

Actually, that advisory vote was not a waste of time. We have at least one Congresswoman, two State Senators, and at least four State House members who are going to be using these results to guide how they vote on issues pertaining to the CRC. The odds of a State Transportation package having funding for the CRC are slim and none. And to get a package passed, I'm betting Gov Inslee will have to agree to drop the support of the Oregon plan (which may die in the Oregon legislature anyhow), and agree to the Repub plan to reopen the planning process.

roger — November 7, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 7, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Thought you might appreciate this.

///Supreme Court Hearing On Religion Case Produces Testy Arguments///

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah I saw that.. On Madore though and about the leaks. Me thinks Lucas Barking up wrong tree, or he is asking Madore to look into.. Madore has no reason to pressure anyone.. He doesn't have authority.. Wild Goose chase or maybe better yet "Conspiracy Theorists".. Did I say that....

vanwadreamer — November 7, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That advisory vote is useless. Didn't you see how many people voted and the majority don't even have to pay a dime either for the I5 bridge or light rail. How's that representative of the will of the people. I agree that is representative of 30% of the people and of that 30% most don't even live in the area in question.

Whether they restart the process is another animal all together. If they do so, then the taxpayers are due a refund of 180 million dollars for starters won't you think? Or are we paying to spin wheels? If that is the case, does it make sense to pay taxes?

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I got a question for you forum dwellers...and has to do with prayers at the opening of the commissioner's meetings. I heard this today in some show I was watching....

In order to be fair to all religions, what if a muslim or a member of some whacky church of Satan wants to exercise his/her right to say a prayer in this meetings, can he/she be allowed to?

Don't we have a problem here? Just wondering...

The other question.... What if we eliminate the tax exemption to all churches in the country...How many churches will be left standing?


The other question is:

What if someone deducts (tax write off) a significant portion of a building for tax purposes claiming to be "charity offices" and when you check them out, they are most of them empty with just furniture in them to look as offices. Is that a valid tax write off? What are the requirements to qualify for the deduction and how is it enforced by local, state and federal agencies?

Disclaimer: Any resemblance to some known character is just a coincidence, this is just a valid question...

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On a personal note:

The C's website has not allowed an avatar change this morning. (OMG!) That 'page unavailable' thing comes up. I can't imagine being stuck with Kent Brockman as my avatar for the remainder of anonymous posting, although it could be worse. Chris Wallace comes to mind, or, God forbid, Sean Hannity. At least Kent's reporting is factual and community driven.

Back to you Kent...

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nicepuppy the people that did vote are all going to pay some for the bridge and literail. They all live in the county. Anyone who crosses the bridge is going to pay something. The advisory votes at least gave our local elected officals an idea of how the majority feel. If only 20 % voted than that is their loss. They aren't part of the system as far as I am concerened. It s a duty to vote.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 11:40 a.m.

This is an article from a couple months ago that speaks somewhat to your post.

With you other question, I'm not allowed to write off social gatherings at my house and don't believe others should be allowed to also.

///Prayers at county meetings express some diversity///

Since instituting prayer at their weekly meetings, Clark County commissioners have heard invocations from 16 Christian representatives, one Baha'i chairperson, one Buddhist abbess, one Jewish rabbi and one Messianic Jewish pastor.

Commissioners have also held four moments of silence in lieu of a prayer.

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is a big deal, and congrats to the Senate for bi-partisanship, and congrats to our sexually diverse folks for their passion and sticktoitiveness. This is a human rights issue plain and simple.

One can't ignore the political optics of this when it reaches the House and Boehner doesn't allow a vote.

///ENDA Vote: Senate Votes To Outlaw LGBT Workplace Discrimination///

WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Thursday to approve the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, landmark civil rights legislation that would make it illegal to discriminate against LGBT individuals in the workplace.

The final vote was 64-32, with 10 Republicans joining Democrats. The Republican senators backing the legislation were cosponsors Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), along with Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Dean Heller (R-Nev.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.).

ENDA would outlaw workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. It is already illegal for employers to discriminate on the basis of race, color, sex, nationality, religion, age or disability. Twenty-nine states currently have no laws protecting LGBT individuals in the workplace.

It's the first time in history that the Senate has passed ENDA. The House passed a version of ENDA in 2007, but it did not include protections for transgender individuals.

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't see the church of Satan of the Metal Heads in the list Nails....

Maybe we ought to play a joke on these Commissioners and show all dressed up Halloween style with candles and all the related paraphernalia and request to pray for the metal heads God (errr Lucifer for some...LOL) before the start of the meeting.

I bet you they call Sheriff Lucas and bring the tanks, dogs, zappers, gas, the robot suits, etc.....hahahahaha

Party!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The difference is at that time "those people" have made a "choice" to use the new bridge or light rail. Unless.....they want to get a "free ride"....

See that is the great contradiction of these people. They hate government but they want government or somebody to pay for it. The bridge is obsolete, yes it has a few more years of life,maintenance is high, the lift can fail and screw up everything and so on.

So, we need a new bridge. Who is going to pay for it? If 28% says they don't want it or start all over (180 mil in the drain). Let's say the bridge due to an earthquake falls down or it is rendered unusable for a long period, that would be economic devastation or a mass exodus of 60,000 families to live near their place of employment.

All this stuff can't afford more delay in my opinion.

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 7, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.

In my opinion, the advisory measures were not only a waste of time and taxpayer money, but were intrinsically flawed because of the included words "no-tolls" in every single one of them, even if the measure would have been practical or progressive for the future of the County. To use them as a source for consensus on any representation in Olympia would also be faulty because of it.

Too bad we can't have a vote strictly on tolls. Not about maintance and buses and tolls. Nothing else included or attached. Just tolls as a seperate box on the ballot. And too bad we can't have a vote on lite rail. Nothing else included or attached. But suspect that will never happen. The 'no tolls' is too politically lucrative and will be mined for political advantage for one kind or another for ages to come. The time for a untainted opinion, or of a vote without the taint regarding transportation paid by users is long past.

jacjak — November 7, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nicepuppy I agree we need a new bridge. And most that I have talked with would pay tolls. Nobody likes that thought but we know that's what it would take. We would like to see a bridge that does not require buying off up river business's and completely shutting down shops. I can't understand a literail going to Clark College. I just don't see how that is going to be the biggest benefit to most of Clark County. The bulk of commuters use either 164th park and ride to the east or Salmon Creek park and ride to the north. They need to come up with something that makes sense and benefits the most people. As you have said before old town Vancouver will not be the biggest user of literail. Because I-5 is a interstate hwy. It should be paid for by all the tax dollars that we as a nation pay into. It should not be a Washington or Oregon cost. I-5 is a benefit to the whole western United States.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I see we are having a celebrity in our neighborhood .Reese Witherspoon. Should be good for Up Town Village. Wish I wasn't trapped in my office.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Agreed on the three bridge options and no tolling - that was stupid. When they were discussing this in The Columbian I attached a link to a WSDOT page that said bridges will be paid for that way.

The first two (LRT and BRT) can (and in my mind should) be viewed differently. People need to read RCWs 81.104 and 81.112 - both require a vote by the people in the designated areas on both the finance plan and the system plan for that HCT system.

Gresham did in fact put both to their voters - and they passed. (And while I can't say for a fact, I'm not certain this is even required under Oregon law.)

I suspect there was a conscious decision to not do so when planning started for the CRC - no one wanted to take the chance that the result would be the same as with the 1994 vote. Oregon and their No LRT No bridge just made it worse.

I'm of the opinion most people would accept a new bridge with a dedicated bus or BRT lane running to Delta Park. They would accept REASONABLE tolls, especially if they were set to go away when the bridge was paid for.

We'll never know unless they ask, will we?

roger — November 7, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Guys and gals of the forum...on the day of election results pouring, some celebrated the progressive direction our city is headed. If the article in the link below is correct, that progressive direction could be short lived. Sorry to be a bearer of bad tidings for you. Hopefully our state senate will work together to reach solutions which are in our best interests...ones we can support.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Honestly, the only loser in this equation are Vancouver residents that commute to Portland. Mostly, nobody else.

To build a bridge under the current dynamics will be a nightmare, same with light rail.

If Vancouver does not create jobs of similar quality as Portland it is all over for Vnacouver. It will loose 60,000 families eventually because the two bridges and related highways will be parking lots.

So those 60,000 families are in a real pickle and the longer this is delay, the more economic suffering. It will cost more in time and money to commute bridge or no bridge, light rail or no light rail. The next 5-10-15 years will be hell.

As is will not work, no way , no how.

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 7, 2013 at 3:20 p.m.

Honestly, pups...there are TWO losers in this equation. ONE...the taxpayers for being bilked out of $170 million and TWO...TriMet. TriMet's been trying to get their light rail in our city for years...much to the frustration of the promoters. They've also promised to pay off three riverfront businesses in order to get approval for the crossing height. It would be interesting to see just how they'd intend to pay these companies...especially since it is highly possible a majority of the "profits" from tolls will disappear when the people choose to drive to I-205.

This advisory vote all but sealed the deal...sending the message that at least 43,983 voters who took the time to cast their ballots said "We don't want any stinkin' light rail." The drivers from Vancouver are used to the traffic and know they have to deal with transportation issues on a daily basis whether it be by personal vehicle, motorcycle, train, bus or bike. If they couldn't handle it, they'd take the time to ride the buses or drive to Delta Park or move elsewhere. And what percentage of the Clark County residents ride buses or MAX, pups???

There's an old saying which befits the situation when it comes to light rail in Vancouver. I'm sure you've heard before and it goes like this...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 7, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.

Hey jacjak, I'm a little confused here. (I know, there's a good joke in there) Don't the County Commissioners have the power to put lite rail to a vote? I mean, it won't really affect anything and they have no real power to stop it but couldn't they do that?

hawkeye — November 7, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's two questions to anybody who deems themselves knowledgeable in the world of politics and the legality of political decisions here in Washington.

(1) When the city of Vancouver makes a decision that affects all, including those of us who live outside the voting district of the city...can the County Commissioners override their decisions?

(2) When C-Tran makes a decision that affects all of us in the county, can their decision be overridden by the voters, especially if RCW's have been violated by C-Tran?

Your answers will be appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie @ 3:12 PM: I made a clear statement on Tuesday that the WA State senate would be gridlocked if ALEC member Jan Angel won, in that we would not see much transportation or environmental funding, for sure. The state will not get as much done as Vancouver, for sure. The senate will stop any so-called "progressive" action. More gridlock on the state level.

As for your questions at 3:40 PM. I do know that Clark County commissioners have no jurisdictional power in Vancouver City Council decisions (or any other Clark County city) or vice-versa. There is a clear line between the two entities and the elected officials and attorneys honor that.

But both Vancouver and Clark County, for now anyway, enjoy block veto power on C-Tran Board decisions. That veto power is being discussed and possibly revised for the future.

You're stuck with what Vancouver decides on your behalf, unless you want to move to a North Clark County burgh that suits your political tastes better. There is a lot of grumbling about moving from many folks on FB right now. It is a seller's market, so maybe people will go for it.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As for the C-Tran question, I expect the courts will answer that one for you soon enough.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In a sense that is what the advisory vote was for Hawkeye. I don't think the county can stop it. But if enough voters say they don't want literail it does send a message to all the elected ones that do have a say. I would like to see how the voters with in the city limits voted. Do they even separate that out from the votes of the whole county? And if Vancouver voters said no will the council listen to them or will C-Tran. jakjak if you put a vote for tolls or no tolls everyone would vote no tolls. Who wants to spend money if they can vote no on it. As I posted earlier I-5 is a interstate hwy. In my warped way of thinking it should be paid for by all tax payers nationwide. After all our taxes help pay for everyone elses roads and bridges. Maybe it is our time to get some back.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 7, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.

Sorry, hawkeye. I've no idea if commissioners have that power or not. Confusion abounds.

I can only assume they must tho, as we just had 5 advisory measures exclusive to Clark County. Only measure 1 was regarding Light Rail - asking if those same commissioners should support a resolution that OPPOSES and light rail project in CC unless it is first supported by voters. Now, I get that, but what a exercise in futility, imo. At this point it was appeasement only stacked onto a already voted on Resoultion....I think.

Huh? Are the commissioners contaminating their representation on the various transportation boards they serve on by this hyberactive advisory measure about a Resolution? Not a lawyer, but even the voter's pamphlet mentions them as board members, tho did not say which commissioners or which boards. It just said 'various transportation boards'. Did they not pass Resolution 2013-07-17 without a consensus of voters?

THAT's what we voted on with Advisory measure 1..... I think. A resolution they had already voted on at BOCC. At the cost of about $50,000. And, ultimately it means nada... Why could they not just wait til a circumstance came along (in the far, far future by the looks of it) that could include light rail and then vote NO as their original resolution says? No, this was a gerrymandered gesture, imo.

jacjak — November 7, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

--------this just in---progressivism has just been reduced to a one trick pony---progressives are shocked---a conservative is celebrating---breaking news---a conservative is possessed by a single issue causing panic to the forum masses---archeologist and priest Father Lankester Merrin has arrived on the scene to perform his priestly duties---breaking news---archeologist and priest Father Lankester Merrin has left the forum citing irreconcilable differences due to an all too familiar client/scenario---it's rumored he's headed over to the Columbian Face Book page to conduct his priestly duties on the much maligned indomitable duo of Peterson and Crain---Vancouver weather updated to be cold-rainy-miserable and cloudy until July of 2018---more news at 6:00--------

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail just what are talking about? Do we have to wait until 6:00

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

---In response to community activist-veteran of foreign wars-business owner and all around good guy-timerick-prior news regarding panic in the forum suburbs are related to-goldenoldie — November 7, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.---in more news---avatar changeability continues to be a website problem---that's a wrap-

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok Nails. Now Stanford by 7 tonight. Ducks got caught in the decoys.

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I think the universe wants you to keep that avatar forever :) It's kinda cute, you know.

timerick: Not a great weather day to be shooting a movie, eh?

Goooo Ducks. Our son is a Duck, I am married to a Cal grad and we just cannot let Stanford win, y'all.

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I sent the vote update but the Forum burped.


langenthal — November 7, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

{whataya mean I'm late charley, fetch me a drink and get this production rolling before I throw you out in the cold and watch your family starve}---/---/---ahem---more in today's news---forum contributer-veteran-independent-politico-roger neilson-is approaching a more than respectable 4000 vote threshold in his run for a district 2 position 4 freeholder office---in related news---local politicians responding to mr. neilson's success as follows---jim moeller- "I already have plans for tonight"- jack burkman- "roger who?" -perennial mayor tim leavitt- "I personally like the guy, how does my hair look?"- tom meilke (looking puzzled) "I remember him, what day is it and where am I-where's dave?!"- don benton- "way to go rog. what's for supper tonight?" and commissioner madore stated- "I have more likes on my face book than that, but I think he's a good looking man, please come see me and we'll work something out."-----it's rumored forum contributer-longtime cynic-aspiring jimmy page bootlicker and future hopeful roger neilson campaign manager-nailingit-has acquired the services of vancouver's longtime sweetheart tonya harding stating- "she'll be great in the trenches, no one but roger will be able to skate through next election"---related news---I'm stuck in the world of kent brockman and can't stop-shoot me-throw me under the bus-something for christ's sake---

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk was that shooting in BG close to you?

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i read your posts and columns. all of them. and i wonder....

is it his actions, or his party affiliation that you so oppose. i watch both sides' actions. the benton arrogance, the selling of vancouver to oregon... and i see a whole lot to write about. moeller is a great example (where are the mocking columns about HIM, lou?) but i digress.

if your opinions are slanted towards the agenda you prefer, fine. just be honest and admit it. at least to yourselves.

DeeLittle — November 7, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No - County cannot stop light rail at this point in time. It's been approved by the C-Tran Board as part of the Oregon I5 Bridge project, and an agreement signed. The votes don't exist on the Board to elect to renege on that contract and pay the penalty.

However, when the project dies, then the TriMet agreement should die with it. And if a new project comes up later, County's bloc vote (if exercised) could stop it - as long as C-Tran is the local transportation agency and they don't cede their responsibility elsewhere.

Gov Kitz is facing ever increasing pressure to back off on his go it alone plan. The Oregonian has posted still another editorial questioning the wisdom of proceeding before the February start of their regular legislative session. The margin for error is extremely slim, and they can't afford to go into the red on this project. They must have some assurances from Washington to proceed.

Gov Inslee's special session is his last ditch effort to get back in the game. He's trying to use the Boeing deal to push the House Transportation package, and will want to keep the CRC in it. The Senate has already made it clear they don't consider immediate passage of this bill necessary. The union contract is critical, and Senate Republican Floor Leader Joe Fain has said the Senate plan is to vote on the two tax and workforce training bills on Saturday and then go home. If they hold to this, then expect that any effort by Gov Inslee and WSDOT to act on their own with the CRC will meet with strong resistance.

As a side note, this contract Boeing wants from the union is pretty spare in comparison to past ones. This News Tribune article seems to infer its not a sure thing it'll be passed next week.

roger — November 7, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 7, 2013 at 4:56 p.m.

timerick- I just tuned in-what happened? Hopefully the Ducks will get it together at the half. Uphill and on the road against a great Stanford team, it's going to be rough. I wish them luck.

roger- A sincere congrats on your vote count! If I would have run I maybe could have gotten a few family members and some paid off homeless folk going my way. Great job!

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


- Don Benton doesn't like me - I made fun of his pictures. I also put $100 down that Ann would kick his butt if that confrontation was to come to blows.
- Jim Moeller would have referred you to Mike Briggs to get an opinion about me.
- Jack Burkman would remember I was the guy who defended him, saying he's a straight shooter. He'd have said something polite about me, and then referred you to Mike Briggs for anything further.
- Tim Leavitt would have thought you were talking about Lew Waters (we old guys all look the same to him).
- David Madore would have made the sign of the horns and referred you to Margaret Tweet.
- Tom Mielke would have made you buy him a beer, and then said he never heard of me.

But I'm cool with Tonya. We could have her pay a visit to the opposition. Keep up that kind of thinking and you've got the job.

roger — November 7, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oregon started by driving down to about the 5, and went for it on 4th and goal. Stanford stopped them. And then drove for a touchdown. They've been beating the Duckies all over the field ever since. The Ducks tend to wear teams down in the second half, but I'm not sure that works against this opponent.

roger — November 7, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Websites fixed! Back to reality!

roger- That Tonya's quite a gal. If we had a hundred of her it would be game over for the Taliban.

Ugly game. Ducks just can't get anything going. They make a 4th & 7 then cough it up.

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 7, 2013 at 6:35 p.m.

Oh dee, there's just soooooo much. His arrogance, his ego, his lack of decorum, his lack of logic, his lack of intelligence, his ego (did I say that twice?, well it is big) his narcissism, and this is just off the top of my head.

hawkeye — November 7, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.

You caused Kent to blush. No doubt he'll return to the forum news room.


Quite a finish with the Ducks game! Two minutes more of football and they most likely would have pulled it out.


Am I missing something with the Jeanne Harris article? I'm aware of the gavel down incident, understand she's not the most popular public servant around, and know she has some personal money woes. That said I can't understand some of the cruel & callous remarks that are being made. It'd be a bummer to lose the use of an eye for sure. I'd think more folks would be pissed at Onslow for a such juvenile act at a public meeting. Accidents happen, but this could have been avoided.

Am I missing something? What gives?

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, one thing I noticed on the FB side. They are very nasty and quite cruel at times. must be those short soundbites they give off. Makes us down here look downright sweet.

What did you have for dinner? That news flash from earlier...worried about you! :) thought you finally went over the dark side, not to return.

Anybody seen any words from Madore about the win/ loss state of Vancouver? Has he mentioned it yet? Or is he muzzled by lawyers at this point?
My prediction is he will last until around March next year before the big implosion. Any takers?

luvithere — November 7, 2013 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is the Maddow replay I spoke of last night with some great history and perspective on the huge gubernatorial Democratic Virginia win. Look for it under this heading...

-Right-wing lens sees wins in election losses-

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just a little Brockman satire luvit. GO always brings out the best (or not) in me. :) (All in good fun goldenoldie)

Kinda surprised with some of the remarks about Harris. Some coming from those I wouldn't expect.

I'm sure Madore thinks Satan has overcome Vancouver. What with a decent minimum wage, marriage equality, legal pot, and now, of all things, Sith Lord Leavitt for another term!


nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i suggest you re-read my post.

DeeLittle — November 7, 2013 at 11:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i'd like to make a donation to the CCFB (Clark County Food Bank) but i'm not familiar with their reputation.

does anybody know if this is a good charity ie gives most/all money to help the target population?


DeeLittle — November 8, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Very reputable, and (I've been told) all of what they collect goes to people here in our County. No idea on the breakout as far as fund distribution goes.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 5:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tonya "TKO" Harding v. Paula "The Pounder" Jones. Not for the faint of heart. (Nor for a long list of others either.);=dialog

roger — November 8, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 9:18 p.m.

The Columbian (Andrea Damewood) wasn't exactly kind to Harris when the insurance claim was previously filed. It sounds as though she's claiming to be nearly destitute, due to divorce and inability to work. A lot of the people commenting see this as a classic case of insurance fraud. I kind of agree, based on my one encounter with the lady. As I mentioned here way back, I was at that 49th District meeting on the CRC, and was talking with the lady who's a local labor leader here after it was over. Harris came up, on my right, gave me this "you're a nobody" look, and interrupted our conversation to say whatever she had to say. She didn't seem to have a vision problem that day. (I thanked Ms. Labor for her time and left - had to go hassle Mike Briggs.)

Poor Jeanne has never been treated all that well by the local press. I'm wondering what Temple Lentz was inferring at the close of this blog from Aug 11.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


i suggest you re-read my post.

DeeLittle — November 7, 2013 at 11:12 p.m.

I read it several times. It made no more sense the third time. If you want something more, you will need to be more specific. Most of us (GO and you excluded) don't care for Madore and his ways. At this point, he has no way of redemption. He's done so much against the County and it's residents. The really weird thing is, he thinks he's perfectly right in his actions.

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry Tim,
That shooting was a couple of miles away. On one of the back streets.

Too bad about the Ducks last night, I was really hoping for a win.

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee: I have voted for and campaigned for many Republican politicians.

It is not Madore's party affiliation that causes me and others to nip at his dancing heels so tenaciously. He needs to be watched. Feel free to monitor and criticize your "favorite" politicians. I think you do that here very well.

Let those of us who think Madore needs a full time nanny do the same.
Most excellent editorial today in the Columbian. It is all about providing protective factors and reducing the stigma of mental health treatment. Make it affordable and available and create more partnerships with mental health/school professionals.

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 8, 2013 at 6:39 a.m.

Thanks roger. Sounds like her demeanor leaves a lot to be desired and she doesn't seem all that warm and cuddly, (GAVEL DOWN!) but after all those surgeries it doesn't sound like she faking it as many on FB imply. Maybe Onslow should fork up some $$$ of his own for this. I don't imagine we'll be seeing to many "stress relief" balls being chucked at public meetings after this.

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, Madore seems to suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder. His way or the highway. That might be the reason he cannot apply a filter when he speaks or posts to FB. Some of us do not like his royal attitude, and as Manthou so aptly put it, he needs a nanny.
So I think our reasons here have been explained a few times by now.

As to Clark Food Bank. Please rest assured that your money will go to the right purpose. From my experience (volunteered a bit/gave), no need to hesitate whatsoever.

luvithere — November 8, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 6:55 a.m.

That is a good editorial. But ask the same to fund this need and most likely you'll get the same 'sequestration is great for America' diatribe. This paper tries to have it both ways, but when the rubber meets the road...

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Barks of the day ***

Bad traffic day or daily commuting struggle?

I got a call by a friend yesterday at commuting time and she claimed that it took her one hour and ten minutes to get from HWY 217 and 26 to the Laurelhurst area of Portland. Her main bitching was that 80% of the highway commuters had Washington plates. She was furious and really sick of it.

Now, think about that for a minute. 60,000 undesirables are encroaching in Portland's quality of life. Add to that your pay rate per hour and that surpasses any toll imaginable. Add the time from NE Portland to Vancouver and you have one hell of an experience.

To that I say, start tolling now. Why? Because then an unmanageable commuting situation may become more under control during peak hours. You will have a chance to "lead" commuters to change they habits and you can start saving for improving the infrastructure related to the crossing.

If that is not done, People from Vancouver need to move back to Portland, it makes no sense as is. No economic sense what so ever, at least to me. If you continue as is, to me, you don't value your life and time as I do. Your prerogative but dude, please...where you born to commute, give all your time to earn a living. You are crazy! Completely crazy. You are trapped. You are a prisoner of your own "voluntary" circumstances.


Bark # 2 Obamacare

Wow, wow, and more wows. Americans are scared. All their supposedly secret medical information is now up for grabs by anybody. We maybe able to find out what our infamous politicians are ingesting in the pharma area to produce such dismal results. What diseases they have. Are they alcoholics? Are they into anti depressants? Do they take sleeping pills? Do they take amphetamines or any other drug for that matter.

Watch out people, that information will have "market value" use against these corrupted crooks. For what I hear, the computer systems are pretty vulnerable.


Bark # 3

It amazes me that the local Taliban and their leader Osama Mad_Laden Mad-onis are so happy with the recent election results. I don't get it. Can someone explain that to me? Is it just alcoholic denial? They are even trying to separate "Turdlay" with Mad-onis. Are you freaking kidding me? There is some serious hugging and kissing under the table between those two. I have no doubt Turdley was following orders from our local Osama.


nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bark #4

Jeanne Harris. I am sorry for her eye injury and hope that everything pans out well. What to learn about politics is that if you mess up (her tirade) you are done, politics or business wise. Bear that in mind my beloved politicians wannabes. Learn from it. The public are merciless. Mad-onis is learning the hard way. His goons are still blowing air up his a$$ but pretty soon will turn against him, it is a natural "evolution"....

Still, he doesn't give the Sheriff reasons to hide information. Mad-onis lacks "courage". The Sheriff shut him up! The lawyers shut him up. The only thing left to say for him is reading grade school stories to his followers but nothing of substance.


nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 6:47 a.m

please refer to manthou — November 8, 2013 at 6:55 a.m. for guidance

DeeLittle — November 8, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 6:55 a.m.

I have to think history will judge this president in a positive way on many things. Perhaps my biggest peeve is that he doesn't fight hard enough for progressive causes and is viewed or doesn't have enough resolve.

From today:

///Insurance Must Cover Mental Health, Substance Abuse Just Like Physical Illness: Kathleen Sebelius///

The Obama administration announced new rules on Friday that will require insurers to cover the treatment of mental health and substance abuse in the same manner they would physical maladies.

The regulations, unveiled by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, would cover "most" of the 85 percent of Americans who have health insurance, according to The New York Times.

Read more @

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Bark 1. Laurelhurst is around Glisan and 39th Ave, west of the Willamette. By your logic, your friend needs to move to the Beaverton/Hillsboro area.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Mental illness is the great leveler for many politicians. Until they experience it within their own families, they often do not understand the importance of funding parity with any other illness. I still think many consider it a character weakness that needs only self-discipline to heal (think Mielke and his contention that tough love cures mental illness: I won't let him forget that brain fart).

When I get that argument from any number of persons, I usually ask: Do you expect someone paralyzed in a wheelchair to simply "buck up and walk?" We provide evidence-based medical intervention for physical disease. Thank goodness our state and the Federal government agree that mental illness deserves the same. At least in principal they do. Funding is still a struggle.

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, many Leftists like to think they’re well balanced if they occassionally support a Republican, so long as the Republican is a Democrat Lite. Madore is not a Democrat Lite. IMO, they have good reason to be angry about the Benton hire, even though it may very well be legal, but it goes far beyond that. He’s not one of them and he’s upsetting the status quo. They’ll jump on someone like Madore for anything and everything.

kn_dalai — November 8, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 8, 2013 at 5:35 a.m.

DeeLittle, CCFB is good. Our house contributes monthly. When we were thinking about it, we couldn't find much on the Charity navigators, so just went down there. Super nice people - showed us around, explained how it works, told where much of the food comes from, etc. They even give nutrition classes. We ended up really impressed, and have even volunteered periodically, usually seperating crop foods that farmers donate. Once it was onions...yuk. But, all for a good cause.

jacjak — November 8, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 7, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.

Thanks for responding to my questions, manthou. Sometimes, politics is so confusing...well, actually...most times it's confusing...8)

roger — November 7, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.

Sad to say...this was the information I was afraid would be the end result. Dang it anyways. It's no wonder Madore was fuming about the sudden decision process on the CRC. Oh well, maybe the State of Orygun will finally realize their bridges and roads need the money more than MAX.

nailingit — November 7, 2013 at 10:04 p.m.

I bring out the best in you...8P

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOLOL....Lew Waters now names Vancouver as

Vantroit!!! (As long as Leavitt is mayor)

Talk about hitting the nail on the head (the way things look today). I hope for all our sake that Leavitt proves him wrong.

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, one more comment on your November 7th comment at 4:28 p.m. regarding if I wanted to move to a north county burgh...

My decision to move was made quite some time hasn't changed. If and only IF the crossing project begins with construction...and as long as it includes MAX...we will exit from this county. Moving north inside the county would not serve my purpose.

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger is not a commuting situation, is somebody "caught in it" by accident. It is obvious that for an every day commuter, the situation becomes "the normal"...


Okay people, this is really important and I hope the Vancouver leaders watch it if they haven't done it already and distinguish between "icons" that lead a city into the future and your "current backward thinking" like the Board of Directors of the Port of Vancouver are trying to drag you and ruin your locality. You need an "icon company" to identify your city. That does not exist, get busy ya dummies. You must or whatever you have left of the smart people that live there will leave. You can't be bragging about illegals building you apartment building and call that a "happening place". Step up to the plate...check this out...

Why haven't you done so? Because you don't have squat to be proud of but a bunch of sticks and a hut. You need to up the ante!!!!!!!!!!! Have an anchor company everybody can be proud of of global significance.

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh don't hit me....but you need to wake up. You can't continue listening to the Taliban. Carolyn Crain? HA! D. Petterson? Are you kidding me? Lew BackWaters? Are you nuts? Berrigan? Do you want to go to jail? Same with K J Hinton. Nuts, they can't, they don't know how! Madonis? He is busy being the local Osama.

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like we've lost a clown for the 2016 circus. Not to worry, many more are lining up!

-Jon Stewart Blasts Rand Paul For Plagiarizing Wikipedia-

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

I have to say that is one impressive video. Meanwhile, in Vancouver, we have a county commissioner up in arms about the cost of housing stray kitties.

Some locals hate the idea we are relegated to nothing more than a bedroom community of Portland.

You get what you pay for.

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: The Vantroit moniker is neither clever nor original, but certainly more 'adult' than his usual habit of calling everyone he disagrees with 'scum' or accuses them of being Communist.
But, I understand such over-the-top rhetoric makes him popular with the 'take to the streets and fight tyranny while playing a flute crowd.'

JohnK — November 8, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Nails, The Vancouver Taliban and their foot on the brakes methodology will never make Vancouver a shining city. That is so unfair. There are great people and talents everywhere and it is a shame that Vancouver can't attract squat but dirty oil and coal.

What are they thinking? It is a different planet.

The VP in the video says it clearly...changing the world, via sports and as a result a healthy life.

What does Vancouver want instead? Dirty Oil and Coal. Can you believe that? I think that it is outrageous!

What talent would they attract...I say... Who would want to live there among dirty trains, noise and pollution. They are crazy! The Port of Vancouver Commissioners must hell that is!

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was thinking Vancouver put like a Nike Campus type of setting for a world class to move in. Also, Lacamas lake...

What did Vancouver choose instead?

Dirty oil and Coal near Vancouver lake instead of a world class campus and a value added products global shipping port.

What did they do around Lacamas lake? Houses for a hand full of millionaires and a gold course, instead of creating a world class campus for a global company.

What are they thinking?????????????????????????????????

We need change. We need visionaries. We need the Taliban outtahere!!!!!!!!!!!

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Golf course that is, I am so pissed at the status quo, well, I am always pissed at the status quo...LOL

Madonis, how much coal and dirty oil are you going to ship here to bury a beautiful place?

Is the 4.6 million a year rent for 10 years worth it? You are nuts!

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 8, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.

I found it to be a befitting moniker for our city, given that all it seems to have done is remain stagnant since at least the 70's. I'm beginning to wonder if Vancouver even has a chance to become something greater than it has ever been, considering we live so close to a rather large city with a reputation all its own. It irks me to think...we'd them??? just kidding around

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

Your morning bark begins with a whimper, pups. Seems to me, you don't really live in Portland since you didn't even take into account the sudden frog strangler/wind event we had was big news on the Boob Tube. Yesterday's traffic woes were absolutely weather related. You know...the same crap that also screws up your choo choo train (along with outdated equipment, automobile/train accidents, ice, extreme heat, pedestrians running across tracks).

Where is it you said you live??? New York? Chicago? Indonesia??? (just joshin' ya)

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.

The McMansions are only on the East side of the lake. Mostly, the west side is a wildlife refuge with a couple pocket farms and industrial sites to the south. You sure you're from this area, pups???

goldenoldie — November 8, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: There is a real racist interpretation of the Vantroit moniker, unfortunately. We can thank Mr. Madore for being the first to say that he was certain that Clark County would turn into another Detroit if light rail connected North Portland with Vancouver.

Now, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I would say he was actually referring to Detroit's infamous financial woes, but his lack of sensitivity that some might interpret the analogy in a more salacious way, well, it makes me wonder if it was accidental.

Here is the Oregonlive article that quotes Madore:

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Yapper,

I guess you're not paying attention. The Northwest (Washington and Oregon) have a hard time attracting and keeping business because of such things as taxation and high environmental standards. And to keep the ones we do have, we need to give all kinds of tax breaks and other incentives. Nike just screwed your state over last year, and Boeing (not to be outdone) is trying to put it to Washington as we speak. Here, HP is gone. Nautilus hasn't done too well, and has downsized. But Kyocera and SEH are still here, and further to the east Sharp is in Camas, There's that other tech company moving to the east side - the one that CREDC got to leave Portland and relocate here. In fact, when you get right down to it, the east side has maintained through the recession and is again growing.

We don't need a "world class" corporation here - not ones like those that are holding Seattle and Portland hostage.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nicepuppy that is a very striking video. And you are right we need a company with a worldwide focus. One that is willing to invest in our area. Your Vancouver Lake idea would be good except for one thing. It is so polluted that most won't go near it. They have tried to clean it up for as long as I have been here. The pollution starts way east out past what used to be truck farms. A lot of the properties out there are still septic tank systems. Lacamas Lake is just about as bad for much the same reason. With most manufacturing gone overseas I don't see that coming back here. we need to become a destination place that would attract consumers. A good example of that is the village of Levnenworth. After they lost logging they turned their town into destination that people want to go to. If that can be done here I really don't know. Lack of vision over the years maybe.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, the point is to attract world class "talent" to high wage companies that create an "economy" with all the related suppliers, products and services. That "talent" will raise "local human capital" via education and opportunities and everybody will benefit as a result.


I hear you, so let's clean the mess up, let's get rid off septic systems in key areas. Clean the lake, take the contaminated sludge out. What are we waiting for? Oil and coal trains do bury this area and to be come an industrial energy go in between dumpster? It can be done.

To me is ridiculous that Madonis eliminates fees to encourage apartment buildings that are not the ones "talent" rents but section 8 and the like to be built in the area. Creating ghettos county wide instead of beautiful living places that are not cookie cutter. He is creating his own Detroit.


Watch the Nike Video and learn....that is what you people could be....the only ones stopping you is the local Taliban mega churches and right wing extremist politics that are not conducive to "culture, creativity and prosperity". They are only experts in indoctrination and slavery. They pay you little and what you have left, they suck it up with their mega churches. The only prize you get is the "possibility" to go to their made up heaven...


nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I always wondered about the health of Vancouver Lake.

Maybe it is time to resurrect the Fort Vancouver name change discussion? Focus on this region's history and easy-access to recreation. Fort Vancouver park was working on a plan to develop it further for hospitality and I remember responding to a survey.

All-inclusive family resort like Mohonk Mountain House in NY. Our own Club Med, northwest style :)

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vancouver is indeed destined to live in the shadow of Portland. And we're to blame.

Remember a short time ago when a pro baseball team (albeit class A) chose Vancouver as it's first choice for a new home? What were our reasons for rejecting it?

-the cost of seeing a movie, and a few other entertainment venues, would slightly increase. (5%)

-the Bears were a second rate club. (the nature of a farm team is to develop players for the majors)

-"I don't like baseball." (I don't like soccer, but not so blind as to not see the benefits of community involvement and local employment)

If anyone can think of other reasons we rejected this, please post. I hope for sanity's sake I've left out a few.

A new stadium-a few more local jobs-community involvement-something local to root for-a family venue to take the kids and grandkids to-influx of local dollars due to ticket and merchandise sales-and in my opinion, a chance to see America's greatest game played up close and personal.

But not to be. Until Vancouver gets a different mindset, a forward thinking one, we'll remain stagnant. And what does anything that remains stagnant end up doing? Going backwards. It's the nature of the beast.

And yeah, many didn't take too kindly for the much celebrated Marc Boldt basically sealing the projects downfall. He showed the political fortitude of a jellyfish. (at least they have some sting) He caved for political gain, and in this way he can be compared to Mayor Leavitt's change on tolls. But no one seems to hold his feet to the fire for this obvious stab in the back he gave to supporters of this project.

In part, it's much the reason I was more than happy with this years election results. People who (for the most part) seem to be somewhat visionary elected to office. [Progress]ive thinkers.

It's the overall mindset in this community that needs to change, and conservatives in particular. (by definition alone, conservatives are resistant to change)

And this years election represents, to me anyway, a starting point in the right direction.

If we get another shot at a sports team, which is highly doubtful, let's not screw this one off.

I'd be proud to wear a shirt and ball cap of a local soccer team and take my family to see some games.

Even though I think the sport comparatively sucks.

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And again - The east side of town is doing quite well. Vancouver was on the right track with the old downtown several years ago, when they were pushing to get people to buy up the old houses and convert them to such things as attorney and accounting offices. I like to drive Columbia from Fourth Plain south when I go to the park - lots of nice places that have been fixed up. The Catholic church south of Mill Plain could have been the cornerstone of a beautiful residential neighborhood - instead it's stuck in the middle of ugliness. There are too many people obsessed with returning Vancouver's downtown to its glory days. So far, just about every venture has been a loser.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, I agree with you in what you said.

We have to bear in mind that the local Taliban wants you to work, go to church, do church related activities and suck all your time and money while you are at it. That is their methodology of total control of the ignorant and susceptible to be brain washed. They don't believe in personal freedom, that is just a warped definition and brainwashing point. They decide what is done or what is not done in a community.

Show me an evangelical football team or any team in any sport local or national. Show me culture from the evangelicals, theater, singers of national recognition but the 700 club or other charlatan networks. Name one that makes it to the national charts. Name one singing about poverty or the sadness of life in occasions. Or a love story.

The American Taliban is not conducive to progress. It is God and Weapons with all its war industry. Nothing creative but to bring human destruction and pollution.

They are experts in creating physical and mental slaves. Watch out.

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail not to disagree with you but the baseball team was out before it got started. The part of town where they wanted to put it was not right for the venue. They failed to look at other options. Like the fair ground area or east towards 192nd. There was just not enough room by Clark College for parking and the stadium. Heck even if they looked at Lower River Road it would have been better. I am not a baseball fan but I would have supported it had it gone to a better area. I not a soccer fan either except for the fact my granddaughter is on a soccer scholarship at Central Oregon. I still don't know how the game is played but I do cheer her on. Manthou has a point in that we are the gateway to some fantastic recreation oppertunites. We just need to learn how to use them. If we really tried to clean up our local lakes instead of doing it half assed it would have been a huge benefit to all of us.Nicepuppy is right in saying that apartments everywhere are nothing but a drag on the county. We have some great things here if we would only learn how to use them. We will never be another Portland or Seattle. We need to use what we have to our advantage.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gov Inslee has to be beside himself. He thought he had the Machinist union backing his play on the Boeing deal - the union's district pres says otherwise. The contract Boeing put forth is a "piece of crap."

Meanwhile, the State House Finance committee passed their $8.7 billion tax incentive package for Boeing.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.

Different locations should have been put on the table if this was a main obstruction & if it was possible at the time. On that I agree. Still, if professional planners deemed CC viable it should not have stopped it from moving forward imo.

There is a faction in this community that would be against projects like a baseball team-clean lakes to induce recreational change-a zoo-anything that might cost a dollar or create a vibrant community. Even a very small candy & soda tax to better our schools and health care were voted against and repealed. (remembering 2010) Certain folks covet their familiarity, are ideologically driven, and will resist about anything that might cost a penny from their pockets. This category reflects both sides of the aisle, but no doubt weighted heavily with conservatives when speaking of new spending and change.

My daughters and grandkid have played soccer as well. And their games were so boring, I almost got carpel tunnel looking at my watch. (except when one of mine kicked the ball, and for a fleeting moment I was energized. :) As for understanding the game. There is a ball and they kick or butt it back & forth for days until someone scores a goal. (yawn)

Unless our politics take a left turn, growth, imaginative change, progress & community involvement will not be on the rise in Vancouver. And it's a big reason I was happy with this years election results.

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger: I'm always surprised, despite their complaints, how well Oregon and Washington's business climate compares to other States in the National rankings of various business groups and tax policy organizations. Washington ranked 6th and Oregon 12th in the latest one I've seen, but others have been recently published showing similar results.

I think business owners are like farmers complaining about crop prices. It doesn't matter how good things are, they'll still complain. It's instinctual, it's what they do.

JohnK — November 8, 2013 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail: I think that candy and soda tax failed because it excluded some kinds of each. My thought would have been a across the board tax on all candy and soda. They can't pick and choose what type they are going to tax. Tax it all like cigs. They don't change the tax because one has a filter and one doesn't. I don't know if you were around here when we had the excise tax on vehicle licensing years ago but it was a real hardship on some people. It was nothing to pay 400.00 , 500.00 or more each year to license your vehicle. I would not be opposed to paying a extra few dollars a year more now if it would help keep our roads in shape. Or improve our way of life a little better. People need to realize the government sells no product to bring in revenue. They rely totally on tax's. We have to pay in order to have the system we have.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As Timerick said - That was a terrible spot for a ballpark. Clark County drives to get places, and that location has minimal parking. I've got a feeling the city planned on making some extra revenue off of charging people going to the game for parking at the new LRT station parking garage. But an awful lot of the opposition was coming from people who didn't like the idea of the entertainment tax.

I don't know that much of anyone complained about Luke Jensen Sports Park, out on 78th Street near St Johns Road.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 8, 2013 at 1:58 p.m.

John - It seems our not having an income tax and Oregon not having a sales tax is a major reason we're at the top. (But even so - We ALL complain about taxes - they're like fleas on that stray puppy dog.)

"The absence of a major tax is a dominant factor in vaulting many of these ten states to the top of the rankings. Property taxes and unemployment insurance taxes are levied in every state, but there are several states that do without one or more of the major taxes: the corporate tax, the individual income tax, or the sales tax."

roger — November 8, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I'll ask.

Manthou, what was it I said or didn't say to Dee? I thought I was pretty clear as to what I thought was wrong with Madore. I don't care about his religion, or his supposed charity work. All I care about is how he's screwing up the County.

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The problem is our government doesn't understand the concept of "a little." Gov Gregoire was pushing a licensing tax a few years back that was based on engine size and vehicle weight. Anything over a 90cc 4 cylinder subcompact was going to run over $100.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 8, 2013 at 1:58 p.m.

Excellent site. It got me to thinking about tax rates/business incentives and how they relate to infrastructure and overall to quality of life in each state comparatively. So many times essential items such as education and health care suffer when offering to give the farm away to attract businesses.Then-trying to calculate-I got lost in my own confusion. :)

Thought you might enjoy taking a look at this. Some countries that are ahead of us really surprised me.

And before posting seeing timerick — November 8, 2013 at 2:25 p.m.-"People need to realize the government sells no product to bring in revenue." & roger as well-"But an awful lot of the opposition was coming from people who didn't like the idea of the entertainment tax." will enjoy this as well.

roger to that point I say tough nuts and they need to get over it. It speaks to what I said about penny pinchers. timerick's point about this is spot on.

So many times the conversation is framed as givers & takers. More times than not the takers are the givers and the givers are the takers. It's not only perspective, it boils down to dollars & cents and quality of life.

timerick-"It was nothing to pay 400.00 , 500.00 or more each year to license your vehicle."

Waaaay excessive. Glad to not have been here for that!

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I presume (possibly erroneously) that Dee is a Madore supporter.

This forum spends a lot of time bashing him. (Granted, he seems to do something deserving of this on an almost daily basis.) Anyone who tries to defend him can expect to get hit from several sides.

Dee noted that others (Jim Moeller named) are also guilty of excesses, but are rarely criticized. (And when they are, it's "ho hum" and off to other subjects.)

Manthou responded with a "live and let live" answer (sort of, anyhow). One that said we all have our own opinions and are free to express them here.

I gather Dee feels you (and others) aren't willing to extend that same courtesy to her.

Or something like that.

My own opinion is that these newspaper comment sections are no place for the thin skinned. We are (mostly - not always) fairly polite here - The Oregonian, as a comparison, can get downright brutal.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know I have been thinking about this tax thing on gas and vehicles. With the electric cars coming faster and faster we may have to do away with the gas tax altogether. And go to a vehicle tax that would be paid every year. That would make it more fair. Electric vehicles are not going to be paying gas tax's but are going to be using the roads and bridges. You could average out the amount of gas tax taken in for previous years and divide that out with the number vehicles registered in the state. Everyone would be basicly paying the same. Extra could be added for vehicle weight as that would impact the wear on the roads. Like 1/4 ton vehicles now pay a fee higher than autos.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As a side note:

I appreciate all who post here. This is certainly a fun and informative site. It's the only one I post to and I can't imagine any others being this diverse and interesting. (I do get tempted to go Face Book but continue to resist)

Knowing that many of you post to other websites, do any of them come close to our very own local basement?

As time goes on I find myself being informed on issues in which normally I might not take the time to do so. Be it through personal searches digging for info, or some of our enlightened forum posters stating something I wasn't aware of. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to all for making this place what it is.

[why don't some of you who post elsewhere lure some folks to this site-the more the merrier]

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail you have to be very careful what and who you deal with on the facebook side. Quite a few of them are just waiting to jump down your throat. Some can not have a decent conversation. And there are extremes on both sides. Roger seems to handle them very well. He really should become a politician. He can smooth the wrinkles out of a Shar Pei. I think even Jim Moeller likes him.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, for my 2 cents.

"We" seem to have the most diverse and polite people of any group I have seen. Now this is totally opposite of what the "C" expected when they signed up with Facebook but I maintain that it doesn't really matter if you use your real name or not, it's a reflection of the feel of the room.

Well, off to Vegas. talk to ya'll later.

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

We have one or two who post here I might include in your assessment. Most of us know when we cross another's comfort zone. Having said that, rigorous debate is always welcomed. I don't have a lot of desire to post to "the dark side." Sometimes when I see something not addressed or some ridiculous unrefuted info put out I get a nudge, but that's about it. I do hope the C keeps this site going.

I will say one thing. There are some who post over there who are have no shame when it comes to sources. I'm reminded of J Ley who cites Fox News unabashedly. Hard to refute that. When someone lives in a bubble there is no popping it. :)

I'd love to see Drift take on a few with the marijuana debates. Most of the comments associated with this subject on Face Book are a bit ridiculous. Drift frames his talking points as well as anyone I've ever read. Period. This is such an important subject to be addressed. We are truly ahead of most of America with legalization. The more honest and informative debate we have the better. In many ways the C has dropped the ball in this area and are not pro-active enough. I have submitted suggestions in the past to encourage them to have more informed reporting in this area but alas........

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, Nails,

I read an article recently about Oregon wanting to experiment with a miles driven road tax - that also makes sense. The issue many have is that these use taxes have a habit of being diverted to other things. The US highway gas tax funds the rail projects, for example.

Another problem with them is that if you should pay to use, then why should you pay when you don't use? As I've noted before, over half my property tax goes to schools, yet I've never used the ones here. Why is it fair to discriminantly apply use taxes?

Around this burg, the problem lies with why more than with what. A lot less people would complain about light rail if it traveled the freeway corridors and was easy for commuters to use. City Council wants it for reviving the downtown area's economy. The ball park was seen as another part of that plan. Now, putting a few dollars into making Esther Short a nice gathering spot is OK. The Hilton Convention Center pushed right up to, and possibly over, the limit. But more and more of us are seeing old Vancouver as that beast with the never ending hunger - the more we feed it, the more they want.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

Have fun and be safe hawk. If you happen into Palace Station and see an 85 year old woman playing video poker for too long, (I know, the place is full of them) tell her her son says to get the hell home! :)

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I use a variety of different sites, but mostly just for particular issues. As noted in other comments, diversity of opinion is (usually) tolerated more here (though our conservative posters would probably disagree with this observation).

And we have our very own Jeep here too - No matter how often he gets tossed, he's back.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Does she have RED hair... I think I saw her there once.. Thats my favorite place to "gamble" Been lucky a time or two there and the food.. Great seafood.....Now I'm hungry... Gotta hit the bank and freds on way home. Take care all and have a safe weekend..

vanwadreamer — November 8, 2013 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I don't like the miles driven tax. To me it lets the government know to much of what I am doing. I would prefer more of a flat type tax on the vehicles if it could be done. Kind of make it the same across the board. Of course weight fees would have to added for light trucks and a different tax for heavy over the road trucks. These are just thoughts. But we have to do something different as long as electric vehicles are going to become more in use. something to ponder now that the election is over and things may quiet down for a little while. May as well stir up a little controversy.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm flabbergasted by many of the comments related to cannabis articles, nail. I could pick them apart like fish flesh from the bones. The thing is, I refuse - refuse I tell ya! - to be assimilated. So I sit here and just shake my head. I'm fine with ignorance. I'm ignorant of many things, but to insist on ignorant behaviour simply for the sake of perpetuating some sort of 'puritan values' is unconscionable. Won't someone think of the children? ☺

Drift — November 8, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ignorant or fear Drift. People are afraid of what the know nothing of.

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 2:47 PM: You explained your reasons well. Don't you think it was just a needle to start a fight for fighting's sake?

Some folks attack Leavitt with a vengeance. For others of us, it is Madore. Hey, someone's gotta do it.

Have fun in Vegas and keep nailingit's mom off the slots.

My other half and I are in Seattle tonight, attending a non-profit fund raiser. Jay Inslee is supposed to show up (there will be many more Repubs than Dems: it is not a political fund raiser). Shall I corner him with a question or two? Or just enjoy the food and wine and relax? Any suggestions?

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 8, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.

And the sad thing is most wouldn't listen or take time to properly evaluate the merits of logical talking points. Their mind is made up. They've believed the same damn thing for eternity. Talking points from their church, limited experiences, faux morality, etc, it'd be like talking to a wall with most I suppose.

We are on the cutting edge with this thing. Our state could be a model for the rest of the country. The benefits of cannabis are so many and varied, and it seems like each day we're discovering something new around the world about it.

The irony. The more time and effort spent exploring this plant seems to yield only positive results, yet it's the one substance that's been demonized for generations as being terrible.

Anyway, your comments regarding cannabis are most welcomed here. If you find the time, please use the forum soapbox more often. They are certainly appreciated.

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 8, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.

No red hair. :)

manthou — November 8, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.

"Shall I corner him with a question or two? Or just enjoy the food and wine and relax? Any suggestions?"

I suppose it depends on the mood flow manthou. From our viewpoint, the more info the better. Throw him a curve ball and ask him what his thoughts are about being Hillary's running mate. :)

nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


re hawk- my post intended to suggest that posters who have an agenda admit it. that they do is evident in the content of their posts; what is demonized when one side does it is glossed over when *their* side does it. it's one of two things: agenda-driven or hypocracy. and when i get a laundry-list of 'bad acts' it's not factual, just opinions.

re madore- i hardly even pay attention to what he does. i DO know he's anti-light rail. unless he tries something like governing by execuive order or ignoring the constitution, that's all that counts with me.

THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED ABOUT CCFB. made my donation last night.

re thickness of my skin- i hope i've evolved to the point of not spending my time arguing/debating issues that will never, as a foregone conclusion, resolve .

DeeLittle — November 8, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just sitting here waiting for the plane and I thought I'd see what was going on.

Dee, why do you care?

Nails, if I get over there I'll look for her, no guarantees though.

Manthou, yup, I think so. But then again she just might have run out of foil again.

This is harder to do on a tablet. Scrolling takes forever.

Later, gaters.

hawkeye — November 8, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Later Hawk, gambling is a sin....LOL

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Cronyism is a sin, a capital steps on our meritocratic values and our essence of maintaining civility among each other. Government jobs belong to the people and the most qualified. It is not private enterprise.

The only agenda that I know of is getting rid off all corruption no matter the source.

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Knowing that many of you post to other websites, do any of them come close to our very own local basement?
nailingit — November 8, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.

Read, and occasionally post to NYT. Must say the crowd is diverse and informed. Love the science discussions for this reason. And many have language skills that can 'snap' a comment into space without being petty or cutting. Until you've posted enough to be deemed not a troll or a$$hat confrontational they edit all posts before they are posted to the site. Takes a bit of time before your comment pops up but mostly weeds out the bullies, the 'I was just kidding' sniders, and personal remarks because they disagree on a subject. I like it for that reason. I learn a lot there.

But, and this is big... the intimacy and camaraderie that you all have developed over time is not there. Even your confrontation is mostly about a subject and not the person. The NYT is a national community and a great source of links and easily verifiable research that I just don't have the time to do on every single subject, but this basement forum is best because of the familiarity and warmth here. I learn a lot here and like it much better.

jacjak — November 8, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 8, 2013 at 7:12 p.m.
"Cronyism is a sin, a capital one...Government jobs belong to the people and the most qualified."

Better tell that to Pres Obama (and probably every President before him). It's a time honored tradition to give appointments to those who helped you get elected.

roger — November 8, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Taxman (but not the usual version - there's a surprise guest performer)

roger — November 8, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sunday Bloody Sunday (who comes up with stuff like this?)

roger — November 8, 2013 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Money makes the world go round

roger — November 8, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HAWK: "Dee, why do you care?"

that's a very interesting question, and i want to think about it before i reply. probably see it next week.

DeeLittle — November 9, 2013 at 4:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ROGER: whaddya think...?

"Two U.S. admirals — including the director of naval intelligence — are under investigation as part of a major bribery scandal involving a foreign defense contractor, Navy officials announced Friday night.

Vice Adm. Ted “Twig” Branch, the service’s top intelligence officer, and Rear Adm. Bruce F. Loveless, the Navy’s director of intelligence operations, were placed on leave Friday, and their access to classified material was suspended, the Navy said in a statement."

DeeLittle — November 9, 2013 at 4:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""goldie: There is a real racist interpretation of the Vantroit moniker, unfortunately. We can thank Mr. Madore for being the first to say that he was certain that Clark County would turn into another Detroit if light rail connected North Portland with Vancouver."""

Speaking from the heart since most of my family was raised in and around the motor city...there's only a racist interpretation because someone twisted the words to make it so, manthou. There was never a "racist" issue till someone made it so...the same people who are quick to jump in and pull the race card. Before you know it...someone will complain about the candy commonly referred to as "Black Licorice," labeling it as a racist name for candy. PC is out of control.

goldenoldie — November 9, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 8, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.

I couldn't agree more with your statement regarding the baseball team and where there COULD HAVE been better locations!!! The city screwed up with this one!

goldenoldie — November 9, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Saturday's Bark! ***

Press talk. Don't do stupid stuff coffee cup.....

If you really think about it, you could come up with all sorts of wordings to avoid a catastrophe in the government functions and how to go about it.

I would come up with a cup that says.... If it doesn't benefit the majority, don't even dare! You will be punished by town hanging from the tallest tree! Yep!

Another one would be, Cronyism is like HIV, it could kills us all.

About Cheers & Jeers

Are you freaking kidding me? You are giving Mad-onis credit for the transparency effort?

Let me correct you! I dag into the books of Clark County (just random checks from a professional data miner perspective) and saw a lot of things that did not make sense. A hell of a lot of shuffling here and there.

I have been yelling at the four winds that all data, contracts should be available for public auditing WITH NO EXCEPTIONS WHAT SO EVER!

What did they do? Created a mock generic executive summary version sanitized for public perusal. No real detail to justify the summary records.

What do I want? I want access to the checks, to the invoices, to the delinquent payments, on other words FOLLOW THE MONEY! OUR MONEY!

Anything less is not a cheer, it is a joke, a joke on the ones that pay the bill.

The Sheriff shut the effort down and no explanation what so ever was given.

Now, what type of serious government management is that?


That is Government Transparency. One thing I hate from these elitist crooks is that they think that the citizens can't handle the truth. They ought to be given just the partial truth, otherwise a hell of a lot of hangings could happen...


Cheers to Mad-onis? For a half a$$ job and for being the CEO of the Cronyism Department? Hmmmmmm I don't think so....try again!

nicepuppy — November 9, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 5:51 a.m. Given the GOP/Tea Party history of using Southern Strategy type code words for political gain, it’s not surprising people would question whether ‘Vantroit’ falls into that same category, especially when used by those those with a history of using code words such as ‘welfare queen, loot rail, crime train, etc.’ to appeal to the fears or prejudices of a certain segment of our population.

In any event, similar 'Detroit' name games has been making the rounds of the right wing bloggers for some time, often with more racially insensitive comments and photo's than seen locally.

JohnK — November 9, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Inslee was a no show last night, due to the special session. Saw former politicians Brian Baird, Slade Gorton, and Dan Evans (yes, he is still alive). Not much political talk or interest after the wine started flowing to help open up the check books. I won the table centerpiece basket. Now I get to try to fit it in my suitcase for the train ride home.

Lou B: you should consider printing mugs with the M and M boys pics superimposed on that candy package. :)

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Thanks for being the wingman comment on that moniker double entendre this morning. You made the critical counterpoints very well.

goldie: I swear, you get the Forum award for expelling a brain fart and then blaming someone else for the stink.

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.
manthou — November 9, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

Hmmm... That wine must have been flowing - That retort is a bit more caustic than your usual.

Con husband into carrying the centerpiece for you on the train - isn't that in the contract somewhere?

roger — November 9, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I know. I know I am in the Emerald City. What can I say? Snark rubs off quickly here. Time to take a shower.

This is the city that made a one-term mayor out of their incumbent this week and whose citizens might actually elect a Socialist City Council member, Kshama Sawant, who is only about 1200 votes behind her challenger. That's close. Feisty group here. Take no prisoners.

I think Clark County politics look remarkably tame to me this morning.

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well it's a beautiful morning here in Sin City, should be around the 70 deg. mark today. Got my coffee and comp, all's right with the world.

Nothing to report yet, got some "honey do's" to take care of today, maybe look for Nail's Mom tomorrow.

Yes piddlepuppy, I know gambling is a sin (but why is it a sin and to whom? and do I really care) but don't you gamble everytime you jump on your scooter or walk across the street? The way I look at it is I earned it, I can spend it anyway I choose.

hawkeye — November 9, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It was a joke Hawk, Life is a bet...LOL

nicepuppy — November 9, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 9, 2013 at 4:30 a.m.

First I heard of it. Senior officers across the services have been going down in the past year or so - it seems like more than in the past. Maybe it's because there's closer scrutiny on all DOD spending due to budget cuts, or maybe the press is paying closer attention. Without details, I can only make a couple of general observations.

Anyone in the military involved with contracting, or otherwise spending taxpayer money, is required to take all kinds of training - both with procedures and ethics. A cardinal rule is that if you're uncertain about something, get legal advice. (And save the communications for CYA purposes, if needed!) There are all kinds of audits going on (which is probably why the article says expect more heads to roll). (True story here - I got my hand slapped a few years ago because of one of these audits. We had a summertime change of command practice going on; one of those deals where the troops stand in ranks for hours while the highers nitnoid every little detail. It was a hot day, and I got a call asking if there was a way to get something for them to drink. I went to Target and bought a few cases of bottled water. A big No No - we can't use our credit cards to pay for personal consumption items. My $15.00 purchase resulted in several people investigating this, and several statements written. I played the Safety card and got off with a warning.) ANYHOW, ignorance of rules is not an acceptable defense.

Some senior officers, especially at the Star Man level, have a bad habit of thinking they're above the law. In a way they are. If found guilty, and if past practice is followed, they'll likely get reduced in rank and forced to retire (Still drawing retirement pay, mind you, and receiving other benefits. And possibly a post retirement job with whoever they were doing business with - one far enough removed from military contracting on paper to avoid problems with those laws.). There would have to be some very strong evidence of money flowing into some personal bank accounts for the likelihood of anything worse happening. The risk factor is often low enough to tempt the ethically challenged.

roger — November 9, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A pretty good article by Manning in The Oregonian that covers the various aspects of the Boeing negotiations. The outcome of whatever happens will be widespread - several companies in this area have Boeing contracts. One local lobbyist, who worked on the Nike deal, has the following comment.

"They're trying to break the union from what I can see," Phillips said. "That really amps up the politics. It could get tough for the labor-backed Democrats." He predicted if the machinists' opposition to the contract grows, Washington's special session could get stormy.

roger — November 9, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

Sue Peters Wins Historic Seattle School Board Election Sue Peters won by 7 points.

langenthal — November 9, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 9:20 am. Yes. Lots of talk about Sue Peters' win last night, too. Very progressive platform and supporters. Much hope is pinned on her. No pressure. :)

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Anyway, your comments regarding cannabis are most welcomed here," writes the nail.

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.

Don't forget the picante sauce!

nailingit — November 9, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hummus aint bad neither, nail. For a different Pace and all'a that. Heh.

Lola says, "To buy Doritos stock." So I wonder at the choice of wording. She didn't say she was going to buy stock in Doritos, but, "...Doritos stock."

A case?

In all seriousness, (why do I find it hard to not snicker everytime I write that) this 502 thing has really turned into an issue for the medicinal aspect. Granted, the 'dispensaries' currently operating are illegal as all get-out, but it was sort of like a spitting on the sidewalk law before 502 passed.

Now, state actors are attempting to gut 69.51a (medweed law) in order to hedge their bets for 502's success. There's been questions if the meetings held between the Liquor Board, Dept. of Health and Dept. of Revenue were even legal. A recall petition has been filed with the state attorney naming Inslee as being in collusion. Yeah, I know that won't go anywhere, but still...

From the position of an individual who uses home grown cannabis medicinally (For reals. No "stubbed toe") I'm quite concerned.

And at issue (for me, anyway) is that historically 'true' patients' pretty much keep on the low-low. That is, they don't care to bring attention to themselves. The folks typically carrying on at legislative public meetings are folks with a financial interest. And that's a problem, right there.

I have a sample from a plant - I've been developing for five seasons now - currently at a lab for testing. I'm hoping the results come back heavy on Cannabidiol. As I'm sure you are aware, CBD isn't psychoactive. At this time, the Liquor Board would have me toss it all in the trash and buy my 'medicine' from the company store.

And see, this isn't just about weed. If we, the citizens (all of us), allow this kind of manipulation then what's next?

Pastor Martin Niemöller's famous quote goes here.

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Slow day in the basement...

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 1:22 p.m.

Thanks for the Martin Niemoller quote. Something we all should take to heart-daily. I'm still holding the faith that 502 will be a great thing when it's all said and done.

"If we, the citizens (all of us), allow this kind of manipulation then what's next?"

Do you have any opinion as to the best way to approach this? Public meetings, protests, etc. tend to garner attention from employers, law enforcement and such,(I know, Niemoller would be ashamed) and have limited gain. I've written a few politicians expressing displeasure about feet dragging and roadblocks in the past but...that and my buck-two-eighty-nine no doubt goes nowhere.

I wish the extreme bias that exists against cannabis would leave, but I suppose it will take a generation to do that. Until then...

nailingit — November 9, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Democratic State Senator Nick Harper resigned today, saying he cannot be a good husband and father AND a good legislator. He waited until the end of the special three day session. One less Democrat in the Senate. I assume one will be appointed to complete the remainder of Harper's term.

roger: So Boeing got its tax breaks, but WA did not get any transportation package decision in this special session. The folks in King County are hopping mad because Metro, they say, is still underfunded.

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So I was gone a few days, nice trip, catching up on two days worth of comments.
You guys need to try that, it is hilarious to see who is nagging about what. Manthou gets an award for the snappiest sentence here. I have to remember that one.
Did I miss anything? Are we still standing? Madore do something again?
I missed the dwellers!!!!

luvithere — November 9, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome back, luvithere! Glad you enjoyed your short trip. Madore is on a 3 day retreat with his wife, so he won't be getting into any trouble for awhile. What did you think of the election?

Drift and nailingit: Many legislators believe that, if 502 is up and running with legal shops for purchase, we don't need medical marijuana laws any longer. I assume you have been trying to educate them otherwise.

What do you think of the shop "Green Ambrosia" in Seattle? That has been up and running and was only for medical users. Are cooperative gardens legal in King County?

I understand that Colorado allows individuals to cultivate up to 6 plants in a home garden. Why do you think WA turned its back on this option? More tax money?

I really don't know the issues with medical vs recreational, but it sounds like medicinal users have been screwed with the new law in WA State.

manthou — November 9, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok then, fourth try to post. Captcha was unavailable, anybody else ever have that?

Manthou, it was nice to leave and nice to come back. I was here for our election and am overall relieved that the city elections turned out fine. Hoping it send a message to the boy.

luvithere — November 9, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not sure how to respond, nail (5:37p.m.) Nor am I sure how many words I can write before I run out of room.

Rather than respond to what could be (?) a question about the backroom manipulations of state employees how 'bout I "speak" to medweed vs. recreational? Or, rather, the blending of?

First off, the current medicinal dispensary model is illegal. End of statement. Period. Jenney Durkan is correct in stating, "...continued operation and proliferation of unregulated, for-profit entities outside of the state's regulatory and licensing scheme is not tenable and violates both state and federal law." I know. You 'prolly think it's crazy I would agree with a federal attorney on pot, but dammit, she's right.

"Unscrupulous entrepreneurs" (my words) have been manipulating ambiguityin 69.51a from the get-go to peddle pot from store fronts. All claim it's about humanitarian efforts to ensure patients have a safe source for the product. I'll call bull on the vast majority - those making their house payments from the sales of counter pot. It's all about the almighty dollar. There, I said it.

The thing is, they do provide a service for folks who for whatever reason can't/won't collaborate with other patients. Which, by the way, is a zoning violation within the city of Vancouver. See: Collective gardens.

A legislative bill was presented in 2011 that would have regulated dispensing. The gov. vetoed 36 sections of it. Dispensing medicinal cannabis in this state (outside of a collective) is against the state law. And that's why I agree with Jenny. When we pitch horseshoes in the backyard we pitch to the rules. Without those, how would one even know how to score? The game would fall apart.

Dispensiing in Washington State is falling apart. There are no rules.
Make rules, or stop the charade of playing the game. That's my opinion.

Now, the -State- wants to make house payments. The State (it's "actors") has (have) the ability to ensure any individual wishing to buy cannabis on the legal market do so at the company store (yes, I know they will be privately owned. give me some literary latitude?). That means knocking off the competition. Hell, that's a piece of cake, right? I mean, beings a good portion (a guess on my part. there are 300 illegal dispensaries estimated in the state) of the competition is illegal AND operating in front of God and everybody! Piece of cake.

But the State (actors) isn't (aren't) satisfied with simply shutting down illegal ventures. Oh, no. They are going so far as to reach right into the customers of that market's homes. Reach right into their medicine cabinets. They would gut an initiative (a true humanitarian effort) passed by the citizens of this state back in '98.

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(Pt II)

Have you (anyone?) looked at the onerous recommendations (though currently a draft) the Liquor Board intends to submit to the legislature regarding medweed?

Those are a problem.
A HUGE problem.

And it needn't of ever happened. And THAT chaps me arse.

-My- recommendations would be:

Leave 69.51a alone, with the exception of .085. Remove any ambiguity in that section making it quite clear it speaks to the regulation of individuals supporting one another. Make it plain it aint got squat to do with a store front.

Resurrect 5073 and regulate the dispensing of medicinal cannabis.
Or not.

If not, then allow the recreational shops to talk to med folks about administering different forms and strains of cannabis for medicinal purposes (I've read under the current law it's prohibited (shrug)) and have them on the shelves ("concentrates" might be a current issue, too (another shrug)).

But for God's sake, don't hose those whom really, really, depend on the fruits from those few spindly plants growing down there in the basement. Right now, that's what the State would do. To make the house payment. They would trample the infirm. For the almighty dollar.

I am your neighbor; a friend; a family member (metaphorically), would you watch as the State reaches into my home and take away my medication? If you (meaning anyone reading this) doesn't raise their voice, well, then, I suppose the answer is "Yes."

And they'll be coming for you next. Damn-right they will.

Oops. I might'a got a little carried away.
Oh look! It's time to go retire and read (scuttle, scuttle).

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see your comment, manthou (6:40 p.m.) I'll address it come the morrow. Hopefully, that's acceptable? I'm starting to get rummy (oh my! look at the time!). I really should go to my bed; the warm blanket, chocolate, dragons and sorcerers. Though I do think Paolini let us down with his fourth offering in the series (author, books - yawn, see ya in the morning...;^)

Drift — November 9, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Right now, channel 798 Comcast, BBS Live! Turn it up FDs.

nicepuppy — November 9, 2013 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Tracey Eide and Curtis King say the Senate will be ready to meet in as soon as two weeks to negotiate that Transportation plan. Most of the feedback they were getting from their town halls was that while people were for some projects, the House plan was too much and too expensive.

Running 167 to Port of Tacoma is going to happen. I'm not sure what Boeing could want.

Metro is funded by sales tax and a vehicle registration excise tax. They're having to cut bus routes in order to continue construction on their Link light rail system. (They voted on and approved their rail system, by the way.) Maybe if they weren't blowing so much on the Alaska Way Viaduct tunnel project (estimated at $4.25 billion), the rest of the state might be more sympathetic.

We've got a real disconnect. Money is tight, and will remain so for a long time. (Growth in the Puget Sound area is virtually uncontrolled. We do a better job here; probably due to the national forest and the geographic barriers.) We need to be building as much simple, utilitarian transportation infrastructure as we can afford. Instead, we get these civic leaders calling for grandiose projects. Gary Locke and friends pushed for the tunnel, even though voters were against it - they wanted a nice pretty waterfront view. We had the same mentality in play here. People were calling for a new I5 bridge that would be some sort of showcase for the Northwest, or some such silliness. Fortunately, the recession brought that to a screeching halt.

Anyhow - enough rant. Are you back yet? Who carried the centerpiece on the train?

Back on soapbox. There's been a plan floating for a few years to build a separate rail line from Eugene to Vancouver BC to handle high speed rail. No more creeping along at 55 mph on tracks belonging to BNSF - Trains could travel at 100 mph or more. Duckie and Sea Chicken fans would be ecstatic. Me - I'd have to make a monthly trip to Pike Place - Lowell's makes the best fish and chips on the West Coast.

roger — November 9, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


the gop/tea party use southern code words....?

i'm not baiting here; i genuinely would like some samples. i can't come up with anything that would fit this description, and i spent a lot of time in peri-civil rights south.

DeeLittle — November 9, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@ Drift — November 9, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. #always learning

It appears what should be an uncomplicated issue, the powers that be ensure complications exist. And it seems as with greed and over zealous lawmakers, medicinal pot users (as well as growers) fall into an ever widening crack.

With the exception of Amsterdam koffee houses, I've never visited a "lawful" dispensary before. Just was fortunate to have a reliable source since moving here. I'd welcome the opportunity to be able to walk into a place and have well informed people make recommendations as to what strain is best for what I use cannabis for, and have those strains available. Although I appreciate a good head trip, I too have much more than a "stubbed toe" and would like to have targeted CBD strains available.

Best of luck with your research and advocacy. Folks like me hopefully will benefit from the long hours folks such as yourself invest in this field, and more than a hearty thanks are in order.. (not meaning to sound like 'little red hen')

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 12:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 9, 2013 at 9:18 p.m.

Roger, regarding those current train speeds...

They're actually going faster than 55 mph. Last Saturday, we were headed north on I-5, clippin' along at 70 mph. An Amtrak train paralleling the highway was obviously going faster than least 5 mph faster.

I'm wondering if that "high-speed rail" system is the answer. I'm thinkin' more in the way of safer rail lines protected by annual landslides. Any time we have our frog stranglers, we hear of numerous landslides either near Ridgefield or up near Everett.

Speaking of rail read the article about the crude oil train in rural Alabama which derailed and exploded on outdated timber trestles. All the more reason why we should either fight the oil trains to our port OR insist on updating our entire rail system rather than paying for high speed rail.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting photos which are quite similar to the rail track locations along Fruit Valley Road -

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Greg Jayne...after reading your editorial, I couldn't help but wonder if I lived in the same county as you. The title to your editorial was my first clue (shaking my head on this one)..."Signs of a good election"??? It would be interesting for you to compare the price of a good vote by checking out who spent what in order to gain popularity with the voters...also remembering just who it was that financially supported their campaign in the first place). Secondly, it would also be good for you to compare the number of votes for the year compared to previous years before calling it a "Good Election."

Now...what I do agree with in your editorial is that those who ran for an office position need to pick up their signs. Still several out there. STILL an eyesore.

And would be interesting to make an official count of how many "city dwellers" voted in favor of each advisory vote before making such a statement about the separation of city and county residents with regards to the almost sure to be killed light rail folly of the CRC promoters.

Just my two little cents' worth of opinion. Good job on your write, though. It got me to react...8)))

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am most certain there would have been a different outcome in last week's election if the unincorporated regions of Vancouver's boundaries could have voted on the mayor and city council.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 9, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. Taking you at your word, I'd suggest you Google terms like 'Southern Strategy, Republicans, code words,' There are thousands of examples ranging from Reagan's use of 'welfare queen' to the racial overtones surrounding his use of the term 'states rights' at the time he announced his first campaign for the Presidency. (Small town Mississippi- site of civil rights murders-segregationists on stage, etc. (context much)

One of the best examples of the use of code words to incite certain voters comes from former RNC Chairman and Bush-Reagan campaign manager, Lee Atwater, (think Willie Horton ad) in response to a question from NYT columnist Bob Hebert:

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nxxxxx, nxxxxx." By 1968 you can't say "nxxxxx" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff……………

The use and effectiveness of words and phrases selected for their ability to appeal to the fears and prejudices of certain voters has been so well documented that at least two RNC Chairmen, have apologized to black voters for the practice.

JohnK — November 10, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Howl of the day ***

Yes indeed, once a week is church day or whatever you do to recharge your spiritual side, whether is a thought, a good meal for your family or whatever rocks your boat. I have decided to shamelessly steal this words from a famous lawyer of years past and this was his argument on defending a dog owner of a neighbor that killed his dog. How does it apply to us today? To it applies as a "spiritual, ethical and moral compass readjustment"...Prosperity doesn't have to mean greed, or selfishness or power grabbing or cronyism or nepotism or violence or cruelty or theo-kleptocracy. It is all about he love....

"Gentlemen of the jury: The best friend a man has in this world may turn against him and become his enemy. His son or daughter that he has reared with loving care may prove ungrateful. Those who are nearest and dearest to us, those whom we trust with our happiness and our good name, may become traitors to their faith. The money that a man has, he may lose. It flies away from him, perhaps when he needs it the most. A man's reputation may be sacrificed in a moment of ill-considered action. The people who are prone to fall on their knees to do us honor when success is with us may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our heads. The one absolutely unselfish friend that a man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him and the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous is his dog.

Gentlemen of the jury: A man's dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will sleep on the cold ground, where the wintry winds blow and the snow drives fiercely, if only he may be near his master's side. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer, he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounters with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert, he remains. When riches take wings and reputation falls to pieces, he is as constant in his love as the sun in its journey through the heavens.

If fortune drives the master forth an outcast in the world, friendless and homeless, the faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying him to guard against danger, to fight against his enemies, and when the last scene of all comes, and death takes the master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, no matter if all other friends pursue their way, there by his graveside will the noble dog be found, his head between his paws, his eyes sad but open in alert watchfulness, faithful and true even to death."

George Graham Vest

nicepuppy — November 10, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning, manthou.
Getting back to your questions from last night:

I've never been in a cannabis dispensary. I've been self sustaining from the time I received my first recommendation (7 years). I make three different 'products' from my meager harvests. One of which is a topical containing both cannabinoids and capsaicin. The capsaicin is derived from hot peppers.

I did read an article about Green Ambrosia just this very morning though. The owner, Dante Jones, says they are shutting down due to proximity to a school. The business is within 1,000 feet, as the crow flies. Dante makes a statement that leaves me scratching my head, "It's unfair to the businesses that have been operating in the full intent of the law." The law -does not- make accommodation for the business of cannabis dispensing: As I wrote earlier.

Collective gardens are legal in this state (the law reads "collective" not cooperative). King County has turned a blind eye to dispensaries for years.

The law's (69.51a) section that spoke to a patient having a designated provider used to read (paraphrase), "A provider may only have one patient at any one time." Business folks interpreted "time" as as little as 15 minutes (or less). So dispensaries operated under the guise of providers.

That loophole was closed, but another loophole arose with E2SSB 5073. That was the bill adding the collective garden section. Section .085 reads 3 to 10 patients may collectively grow cannabis. How often can those patients rotate in and out? Dispensaries calling themselves providers simply changed their name to something another collective and kept their doors open.

Yes, the State wants to capture all of the tax dollars it possibly can from the recreational sale of cannabis. I believe leaving out home growing was done purposely by the writers of the initiative in order to make it more palatable to the voters though.

The current recommendations from the Liquor Board are not law. We, the medicinal users, are holding our breath, waiting for the legislature's response.

Drift — November 10, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Speaking of rail read the article about the crude oil train in rural Alabama which derailed and exploded on outdated timber trestles. All the more reason why we should either fight the oil trains to our port OR insist on updating our entire rail system rather than paying for high speed rail."

don't misconstrue this comment as an endorsement of oil trains, but it should be pointed out the incident you mentioned, as was in Canada, occurred on "branch lines", railroads that have little, if any, money for improvements. Their track is usually so lightweight and worn the trains usually run on slow speed orders. Not so with BNSF or UP. These class I railroads will spend a combined total of 7 to 8 billion dollars per year on infrastructure. BNSF recently replaced many miles of track with new rails, ballast, and concrete ties in the Gorge. Signals were just updated and replaced from Woodland northward and the work is still ongoing. Not saying a derailment on these roads could or would not occur, but it is safe to say it is much, much less likely to occur than the other two incidents.

mrd — November 10, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The show 'Sunday Morning' has become a favorite in this house. This morning they had a segment featuring Roger Waters wounded Warrior Musicians. Veterans who have suffered traumatic war injuries brought together, embracing the healing power of music. An amazing piece, and an amazing venture. Sure caused this ol' crusty to melt into nothing. So cool it's on line.

Much thanks to those who have served our country. Let's make every day Veterans Day.

Please take a few minutes and watch this.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, we live in the Pacific NW. If it isn't rain and mudslides, it's extreme heat or cold or carelessness. BNSF does do a good job, but shat happens if you know what I mean. Then there's the risk of two trains colliding, colliding with another vehicle or derailments. It's happened before here in Washington State (head on collision in 1993 near Longview where the Memorial stands next to the highway, 2003 where UP and BNSF had a side collision in Kelso, 2011 collision of BNSF with passenger vehicle in Kelso, Amtrak Derailed in Home Valley in 2005...and that's just Washington State. I haven't even mentioned other states and where these oil cars are coming from). We need to take railway safety very seriously before the crude oil arrives in our port to the extent they are suggesting.

And no way did I consider your comment as an endorsement of oil trains and I hope you didn't take mine as such. I was trying to relay the comment for both sides of the ticket.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is never too late to learn something new…..

Drift: Appreciate the points you have made on the risk that 502 poses to medical marijuana needs. There are always unintended consequences and innocent victims of new legislation. Profit motive and greed can often corrupt. We have persons who have never experienced a need making important life decisions on behalf of those who do. When legislators ignore the feedback they receive from impacted persons, we wind up with legislation and public policy that is simply put, bad. It happens in so-called crime prevention deterrent and other social issue laws often.

Eric Florip's piece on the Columbia River Treaty: never heard of it, but appreciate learning about it. A good Sunday read.

roger: Lowell's is always a must-stop. I do make regular one-day trips to Seattle for shopping, browsing, noshing. I meet my friend at the station and we walk through the gauntlet of despair (getting so much worse, it seems) to Pike Place and environs. Home by 8:30 pm. A high speed train would be convenient, but the 3 hour trip is usually very quiet and relaxing. The centerpiece, BTW, was easily disassembled and placed in MY suitcase, which the ol' man carried graciously. Team work.

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Citizen bloggers take note: Alabama blogger still in jail after defying judicial order to take down defamatory allegations he published about a public official.

While I don't see something similar happening in our fair state, ya' never know. I am watching this with keen interest:

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

train collisions with other trains is and will become rarer and rarer as the class I roads shift from centralized traffic control to federally mandated positive train control. Double hulled tank cars will probably be required soon. Research is ongoing in the railroad engineering dept at the Univ of Illinois-if I recall correctly- for tank car safety and the Canadian disaster got a lot of folks' attention.

But you're right, shat happens and idiots still go around lowered crossing gates. Even a BNSF crew shuttle was hit by one of their own trains in Cowlitz Co a while back. But keep in mind a freight train would barely notice running over a semi unless the crew heard it or saw it.

If the oil is going to be shipped, and it is, rail could be one of the safest modes. When the real environmental disaster I believe the frakking process will cause occurs, we'll really be in deep shat.

mrd — November 10, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Are you scared Manthou? See, what they are doing is a step before of what is done in a dictatorship. First is jail for telling the truth, tehn when nobody is looking or the power has been obtained, it is death. Singers, disenters, activist...any that is against corruption is prey of the status quo.

I say, let the truth stand for itself but for that to happen, we need to open the books. The books don't lie and expose all sort of tricks used to hide wrong doings.

Let's go to the bank accounts, the cash, the deeds...follow the money.....follow the money and you will find the truth...

Are you scared Manthou? Will you be scared? Would you be more "measured" and "warm" like GD?

What about cronyism being as offensive to many as a killing without justice served?

I say expose the crooks no matter what. Many of our young give their lives, limb and sacrifica for us all in economic wars wrongly. Isn't it expected that we do our part making trying to make sure that our kids can live in a better world where at least the crooks in our generation are exposed and dealt with?

nicepuppy — November 10, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

502 and the 2nd ammendment

Whether this is truly a self defense case aside (the alleged victim -did- pursue the alleged perps after they had left the premises) what are the ramifications of having a firearm and cannabis in one's home?

Here a while back the ATF issued a memo to gun store owners advising them selling a firearm to a known cannabis patient is illegal. BTW, if you are a patient and don't acknowledge being a drug abuser, on the form (thereby canceling the sale), that too is a crime.

Oregon has a patient registry. That registry can be accessed by law enforcement. A concealed permit was denied a patient because the cross reference was made. A judge later ruled the patient could lawfully receive a permit because it was only a piece of paper, not a pistol.

So, let's say the 1/2 oz. of cannabis you just bought from the retail store is laying on the coffee table (no kiddies in the house) when the burglers strike. You hear a noise at 3 a.m. and enter the living room to find scumbags hauling your big screen out of the front door. One of them sets it down, pulls a knife and tells you he is going to cut your throat.

You pull your piece from the back of your waist band and shoot him.

Now tell me, in that split second were you faced with two choices; die with your lifes blood spewing on the walls, or spend the next 10 years in the joint?

Let's end the madness;

Drift — November 10, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just thought to throw my 2 cents in on the "advisory" notes n' votes in this years election. When so many, and they seem to be the anti-lght rail crowd, hang their collective hats on these confusingly poorly worded "advisory" measures, it speaks to the dire straights for reasonable argumentation these folks have. They were costly, designed to be confusing and bias, and should not be mistaken to represent any type of collective opinion with this issue. We can do so much better than this.

It's one thing to have reasonable opinion based in fact, it's another to drink the Madore Kool-Aid that panders to those who agree with him on this. There are some reasonable arguments on both sides and in between with this issue. It's disappointing to see (and some intelligent and well informed) people trump these votes in an off year-poor turnout election as lending credence to their viewpoints.

In my opinion, it muddies the water and undermines thoughtful discussion. And perhaps that was the real intent all along.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And as I wrote previously, that advisory stuff was the only votes I didn't make. My V-5 fine point pen skipped right passed them.

I'd have written comment in the open space, but I didn't want to invalidate my ballot.

Drift — November 10, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 8:32 a.m.

"Liberty Duke" from 'Bama. What's in a name? Mostly likely nothing good. :)

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"He faces a mandatory-minimum of 10 years in prison — maybe twice that much — and the government is seeking forfeiture of his home and several firearms.

Drift — November 10, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.

No doubt let's end the madness. "He faces a mandatory-minimum of 10 years in prison — maybe twice that much — and the government is seeking forfeiture of his home and several firearms."

Pot continues to be LE's shiny object & cash cow. Quite a developing story.

Many someday cannabis will be treated in instances like this in the same realm as a crop of Aloe Vera. But suppose the powers that be would find Aloe to be a gateway plant.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry for the repeated quote. Multi-tasking and keyboarding "many" should be kept to a minimum. :)

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Food for thought. Or perhaps better said; thought for food.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Those advisory votes had a primary purpose - One that (in my opinion) was clearly understood by the voters. Do we want the opportunity to vote on whether we want these transportation mega-projects? 68% said yes for light rail, and 63% said yes for bus rapid transit. That's a supermajority on the first, and a clear one on the second. In this day and age of "we have a mandate", one was delivered.

That message is being heard - In our state legislature, in Oregon, and in Congress. I suspect our Governor has one more trick to play - having WSDOT enter into tolling negotiations with ODOT that will include tolling I205 - but our Senate will drag that into court and/or refuse to pass other legislation until withdrawn. (That Angel victory was critical.) Congress is not going to have $1.75 billion appropriated for the project. Oregonians are watching, and there are more and more questioning the wisdom of that state footing the bill for a bridge project most there consider beneficial mainly for Washington.

Unfortunately, that refusal to listen locally will probably cost. Southwest WA RTC completed an extensive study of high capacity transit options back in 2008, and concluded BRT was the best choice for urban Clark County. This was adopted in the Metropolitan Transportation Plan. The 4th Plain BRT is just the first of a few projects scheduled to be completed over the next 20 years. Anyone who takes the time to read this work can see an excellent plan that should be able to be easily sold to the voters. Instead, our C-Tran Board majority continues with their search for work arounds so they don't have to go to the voters. Their short term solution is to use C-Tran reserves. These will soon be depleted, and then they'll have to come to the voters for a sales tax increase. That will be a tough fight.

Oh - If I was Steve Stuart, I'd be looking for another job. That "we want a vote" message from the County doesn't bode well for his reelection chances in 2014. And even if the freeholders do come up with a home rule charter that restricts voting to the district, I really doubt M&M; would agree to a special election for charter approval before next November.

roger — November 10, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 11:06 am: Absolutely awesome video.

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I would like to take other issues to the voters, as well. As long as we are at it, let's vote on who gets hired as staff at Clark County and the cities within its border. Put three candidate names for each opening on a ballot, with their resumes, and let the people be heard.

Let's vote on policy each governmental entity writes, too. I want to see all drafts and approve each word before it goes forward.

I am not being sarcastic.

Let's take all decision-making authority away from those we elect and put it all to a vote of the people.

How to you do this for transportation issues and not other issues?

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- If I'm understanding you correctly, I was thinking along the same lines. Many are happy with representative government, until they feel they aren't properly represented. These advisory initiatives were nonsense in my opinion. (a $107,000 nonsense) A truer feel would be to take a look at who the people voted into office and the views they represent. The wording was silly.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: This is very similar to what happens when textbooks are adopted in some states. Suddenly, every voting citizen is a curriculum expert with three PhDs and 30 years teaching experience behind them.

I'd rather spend more collective time considering Carl Sagan's wise words on the video you posted. Let's try to find more ways we can spend our time together as humans productively and cooperatively.

Maybe some of the angriest voters among us will find a way to secede from Earth. :)

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, so far I've learned three things in Vegas.

1) It's TOTALLY OK to drive with your head up your butt. People cut you off with nothing but a wave, they pass you on the freeway and run up your tail when you are doing 70mph, and the Cops only pull over the worst drivers and that keeps them VERY busy.

2) If you are going to spend any time down here, get used to static electricity. Shocks and all.

3) Nail's Mom isn't at the "M" or The Silverton. At least she didn't answer when I yelled, "Hey is Nailingit's Mom here"?

hawkeye — November 10, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's something to read while you wait for "the apology" at 6:55.

This is Draft #4.

Copy/paste excerpts:

WHEREAS, the LPA was relied on minimal traffic diversion from I-5 to the I-205 and then
discovered that their sponsored report by CDM Smith (Ref 15d) reveals that the traffic
diversion is expected to be fundamentally higher (31,000 to 64,000 vehicles per day) that
is expected to cause unacceptable traffic congestion problems on the I-205 Glenn Jackson
Bridge; and


Section 2. The Board of Commissioners of Clark County hereby states its condemnation of
the of the CRC Light Rail Tolling for acting contrary to the commitments made to the
people, for failing to follow adopted policies, for failing to comply with the requirements
and conditions agreed upon in the governing documents, for failing to respect the 2012
Proposition One vote of the people who rejected funding for Light Rail, and for authorizing
the contract with TriMet.

langenthal — November 10, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.

Actually, I'd also like this done for the Tesoro facility at the Port.

I've no idea why, but RCW 81.104 1nd 81.112 both repeatedly call for a vote of the people in the transportation district on both the system plan and the funding plan for high capacity transit systems. Also, C-Tran policy called for a vote from the same group of people for any funding plan for light rail. (As far as I can determine, this C-Trans policy still hasn't been rescinded.)

That's what makes this different from what you're mentioning.

We do get to vote on some other things - School levies, Port taxes, parks taxes, etc. Seems to me there's a common denominator - If we're expected to open our checkbooks and pay above/beyond what we already do, then they have to ask us.

roger — November 10, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — November 10, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

It appears we are in complete agreement when it comes to the oil trains, rail safety and extraction of crude oil through the fracking process...8))

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The worst typhoon in history has hit my birth family close to home. My uncle who lives in the Philippines...lost communication with my cousin just minutes after the storm came ashore. My cousin is a very worried about her Dad...

All we can do is wait and hope we find out...something...anything...

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I am so sorry that your family has been personally touched by that terrible storm.
I truly hope your family regains contact with your uncle and that he is safe and sound.

This is a tragedy beyond comprehension.

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

Nails...appearances can be deceiving. Although it may appear I do not support light rail (which I actually do...surprising, isn't it), I just don't support MAX coming into Washington State. It opens too many doors of opportunity for TriMet...much to the frustration of Washington State taxpayers. I think our own transit group could do a much better improvement process than anything TriMet has ever accomplished. Even a recent article in Oregonlive mentioned how TriMet continues to grow despite running on problematic and outdated equipment. Knowing they are heavily in have to ask sometimes...Is that any way to run a transit system???

And Commissioner Madore...although he shows no support for light rail, he does show an extreme need for a third bridge on the east side. Makes you wonder if that was his intention from the beginning when he first started posting here on the forum way back when.

Also...I'm wondering something...

He's from California, am I right??? If so...then maybe there's a reason why he's so adamantly against light rail...possibly from past experiences with taxes and a poorly managed transit system??? Just some random thoughts, here.

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 6:13 p.m.

Thank you, manthou. My heart aches...truly aches, not just for my uncle but for the millions of people living in dire straits in the Philippines right now...and Vietnam is about to be hit with the bullseye of heavy rains and wind as well. The way the weather models looks like it will turn north and eastward, probably picking up more moisture...affecting more nations as it moves...possibly even Alaska, Canada and the Continental US. I know Alaska was just hit with another big storm with wind, rain, snow and freezing rain...possibly from moisture of a previous typhoon, coupled with arctic air. Our climate extremes are growing and it scares me to think that this may just be the beginning. (Don't mind me, I'm trying to keep my mind preoccupied on other things. The waiting is soooo hard.)

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Greg Owens is back on facebook - Suspension period must be over. Can a squirrel be far behind?

roger — November 10, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Maybe some of the angriest voters among us will find a way to secede from Earth." :)

manthou — November 10, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.

Life expectancy assures this. In someways I envy my grandkids growing into a future less burdened with many of the bias's and prejudices we have today. No doubt they'll have their own set of issues to deal with, but respecting diversity and accepting change won't be such a factor. At least I don't think so. We are all in this together and many just can't come to grips with it. (And we'll be space truckin' around new worlds anyway.) :)


roger — November 10, 2013 at 1:05 p.m.

"Oh - If I was Steve Stuart, I'd be looking for another job."


(if you bump into John Burke, tell him the election is over-Tonya says hey)


hawkeye — November 10, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

Thanks for the effort hawkeye. :) I spoke with her earlier, and I didn't hear the 'ding ding ding' and associated casino sounds in the background so I think she made it home.


"If so...then maybe there's a reason why he's so adamantly against light rail...possibly from past experiences with taxes and a poorly managed transit system??? Just some random thoughts, here."

goldenoldie — November 10, 2013 at 6:19 p.m.

I can't get into this motion control enthusiast's mind. What I do know is he's extremely poor at governing and has his own agenda-everyone else be damned. He embodies just about everything wrong with government. (and he talks funny)

Best of luck with your family. I do know what it's like when a natural disaster affects people you care deeply about while being a million miles away. I have some friends in the PI myself. Take heart many of them knew it was coming and had time to prepare, which in and of itself no doubt saved countless lives.

nailingit — November 10, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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