Open forum, Nov 11-17



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A new week begins on the forum...

Nails...I read your last comment to me on the forum from last week about Madore and your opinion of the guy. I believe his attitude and demeanor as well as quick decisions is something that isn't all that uncommon when someone steps into the political arena for the first time. I call them...greenhorns. It appears he's quite adamant in wanting to get his agenda in place (whether or not people agree with it, that's their choice) and he won't stop at nothing to get the job done. It may be his downfall...yet again, some may prefer people in office such as him. The true test will be when he comes up for re-election.

Thank you for your kind words regarding my uncle in the Philippines. I hope for your friends...that they are all okay.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just received an email from my cousin...via my sister. She received a very short Tweet with the message from my uncle's stepson which states...

"We Survived."

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Good news for your family. With so many deaths and injuries in the Philippines, I can imagine how worried you were.

To all our generous veterans on the Forum and in our families, a sincere thank you for your service to our country.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Erik Hidle's story about law enforcement funding shortages in Clark County: something we citizens need to raise our voices together and insist on better funding. This is an issue I think we all can rally around. I worried about the negative impact of draining the general fund for fee waivers (and now a huge lawsuit settlement).

Sheriff Lucas and his team are some of Clark County's greatest human assets. I am glad he has stepped forward as an elected volunteer Freeholder, too. He will contribute great wisdom and experience to this important process.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal's such a tragedy regarding what has happened to the Philippines over the past several years (natural disaster wise, that is). How much more can the people take??? If anybody has a way to donate something...anything...for humanitarian reasons for these people, I hope they can. I know I will. And yes, I was quite worried, even though my uncle is a retired County Sheriff and would most likely possess the necessary skills to survive...but with a typhoon of such magnitude, I'm surprised anybody survived the onslaught of a disaster of such extreme proportions. My uncle...he's the type of guy who would be up front and center, volunteering all he could to help others.

Regarding your statement on our Veterans...I too am quite thankful for their dedicated service. I second your thought.


And to those who have served in the Armed Forces and believe they haven't been properly recognized as they should...This day is for you. Show your pride and we will stand beside you.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.

Sheriff Lucas has done an amazing job keeping the CCSO afloat, but there comes a time where funding is needed to keep the Sheriff's Department functioning and we receive the quality of our policing district that we deserve. It appears to be in dire need at this time. I certainly hope the BOCC finds a way to find the funding the Sheriff's department so needs!!!

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, very glad to see your family made it over there. It's a horrible feeling to be so far away, sitting helplessly waiting for answers.

As for our police force and funds. We always seem to find money for pet projects but we tend to woefully underfund the really needed things. Glad he stood up and said what needed to be said.

Happy Veteran's Day to our vets down here. Married to one myself. Glad he joined so we met.

luvithere — November 11, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

AND I am convinced that there will be nasty commentson the FB side to this article. things such as stop less for donuts, make do with what you got, no taxes for this, etc. etc. Can almost list the folks who will start on that. sad.

luvithere — November 11, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the day! ***

Tired of the Sheriff of whinerville whining about money!

- When you don't have a job (you do and it pays generously plus benefits that nobody gets, you sit on a chair and you don't risk your life), you have no money for rent, or to eat, or to buy children clothes, pay for medical expenses, have to eat government cheese, get fat and sick with macaroni and cheese, top ramen, while you eat steak, your body size shows it, certainly you can't afford to buy you more tanks, more high power rifles, more 100 ammo magazines, more space robotic suits and helmets, nor fancy patrol and undercover cars.

How dare you!

Live as a poor person for a month with no money and an empty refrigerator and then "think" before asking for more money from people that do not have it.

Use your brain to re-engineer your operation. How mane unemployed veterans are out there that could volunteer to help your department to have a safe County and City? Have you thought about that? How many citizens that would answer the call with community policing?

Use your brain Sheriff. Stop sitting, bench warming a chair day in and day out and not coming up with solution that do not require money at this time of economic peril.

After all, Benton is pocketing over 100k similar to your wages and benefits for being a friend of your body Mad-onis. That money comes from the General Fund, doesn't it? There is your cop money being wasted on a "shoe in" position.

Pawn your tanks, you don't need a stinking tank to kill citizens! Now you want more money for more tanks?


nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Why hasn't Sheriff Lucas requested the funding before? He cites that we were going through austere times. Even so, the norm is to request what's needed, even if you know it won't be granted. This establishes the areas which require funding, and the criticality of the need. His approach could be interpreted to say what is/was needed falls into the "like to have" category.

Austere times aren't over. There's an article worth reading on home equity loans with ballooning payments (principal due in addition to interest) that will start coming due next year, and increase tremendously in the years to follow. With tighter lending requirements and the probability of higher interest rates, the housing market is liable to take another tumble.,0,6997479.story#axzz2kLoF6aF9

Pointing at tax breaks to attract businesses as a problem? Mind you, I'm not a fan of subsidizing Corporate America, but didn't we just conclude a special legislative session where we gave billions in tax breaks to Boeing?

That on-line County document repository had an entry that caught my interest - we're taking out a bank loan to pay the $10.5 million lawsuit for the two guys unlawfully convicted of rape. Don't we have a couple more suits facing us? The Rosemere neighborhood one concerning stormwater drainage? The VPD cop who recently had his sentence commuted after 20 years in prison because he may have been erroneously convicted of child molestation?

I live in unincorporated County. Tagging has increased tremendously (though it's sometimes hard to say what's gang related and what's being done by the utility companies). Other than that, I haven't noticed that we have a crime wave going on. Almost everything I read about falls under the jurisdiction of Vancouver PD.

Is it just possible this is more politics?

roger — November 11, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn! Nails, where are you??? I think I just (almost) agreed with Pooper Dog on something. PLEASE come on line and explain why there's the possibility of fundamentally different beliefs occasionally reaching the same conclusion.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Met your hubby when he was stationed in Germany?

I was hoping that adequate funding for law enforcement would be a unifying issue for Clark County. I admire Garry Lucas' assertive advocacy and know he will be on it constantly, as he promised.

Soap Box Alert:

Our neighborhood association (soon to be joined by others) is presenting the CC commissioners with a letter soon that reveals what we think is a runaway public safety/health/human rights issue: the increase in Asian "foot massage" businesses that entice young foreign women over here with the promise of a job, only to force them into virtual slavery once they take the bait. Law enforcement is on board with us, working with other agencies and are doing what they can with what little tools they have. We are going to see more of these businesses here because of stricter laws and increased arrests in Oregon.

How the mighty Clark County three respond to our SOS will give us all good information about where their priorities lie.

For me, I am sick of the fluffy, feel-good programs that amount only to political impression-management, but do little for the larger, more critical issues that face us. While adding lifeguards, removing park fees, waiving development fees seem like worthy ideas, they are Disneyland icing and fairy dust when compared to the most critical public safety issues that are lurking in the shadows and growing every day. It takes Garry Lucas' anger to get the proper attention re-focused.

I get the sense that come CC Commissioners would rather keep the ugliness hidden from public view and distract the voters with "see what good I am doing for you?" diversions.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 7:49 am: "Is it possible that this is more politics?"

Always a good question to pose. It is one reason why I think judges and sheriffs should be appointed, not elected.

In Lucas' case, however, I believe we have a dedicated public servant, as well as a politician. It is no secret that he is upset with Madore and Mielke. He is airing that publicly now.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Is there a problem with these Asian "foot massage" parlors here in Clark? I can't recall ever reading about the police raiding one. (It seems they raid Asian pot growing houses all the time.)

roger — November 11, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou -

Oh - That is a serious question. I'm aware of the problem with sex slaves in the country; I just haven't heard that it's a major issue here.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: According to our neighborhood police officer, they are a problem. More are cropping up in Clark County because of stricter laws in Oregon that went into effect this summer. Oregon is on it. WA is a little weaker, for now.

There is a big issue in "raids" as they have to catch someone in the act (as if) or receive a complaint from a client. The cops and Department of Health do show up and make surprise visits, with customers running out the back door and to their cars. Many of the men the police have questioned coming out of these parlors freely admit to what transpired inside.

The police tell us that there are surveillance cameras all over these places and that the women they have interviewed are not afraid of the police, but act very nervous as they glance often at the monitors. The police are concerned about these young women's safety. Many officers view them as victims.

Google The Polaris Project for the best and most current information about the connection between "Asian foot massage" and human sex trafficking. It is not a matter of a consensual contract between two adults.

Since some are cropping up in our Clark County residential neighborhoods, in addition to strip malls, there is an increased awareness of them because neighbors notice the increased traffic, out-of-state plates, and extended business hours that go unnoticed in business zoning.

I think we are going to see an article soon about this from The Columbian.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 11, 2013 at 7:49 a.m

Years ago when we were annexed into the city the sheriff's office took a huge hit in funds as well as man power.
Which the VPD pick up in funds, more man power, vehicles etc.
Now when there are more people that has moved into the un-incorporated areas of Clark county, the sheriff's office is lacking. Sheriff Lucas was told when the annexing took place to scale back, and did so. Again just a few years ago, they were told to scale back again.
It has now came back to bite them in the rear and the need is there.

I'd much rather deal with the sheriff's office than with VPD.

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I think that a smart thing to do is to find out where is the crime happening, what type of crime and to find out what resources are being allocated to that crime in reference to the entire police budget.

Nobody here has ever thought about policing the police. Crunch their numbers. Assess their requirements, come up with alternatives, involve the community in the effort nos just maintain a monopoly.

You people are so dense and gullible that is preposterous to give money without looking at the whole policing effort with a bean counter and strategic eye.

As long as you have poverty and there is poverty, you will have crime to survive. But those are the little guys. The big fish sit near you and eye and steal us blind.

If the Sheriff would use his brain to hit the crime that causes the most damage in a community, yes indeed, "financial crimes", he would have money to give away. Asset forfeiture to financial crooks.

Ops, I am entering a very dark zone, here. You don't need a freaking tank to capture a financial crook, just intelligence and know how. Something lacking all around...

Wow, they got a pot plant......we need more money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dummy, the plant does not kill anyone, it puts them to sleep! As long as they are sleeping or sleepy, it is all good....get it? If everybody is asleep, party time for the financial crooks, nobody will notice...

Follow the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bark Bark....


nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see a real need to put the Sheriff's funding needs to a County wide advisory vote. In the spirit of previous advisory votes, we could ask the people if they’d support raising their unfair taxes to subsidize another Mini-Mart or not raise taxes and reduce pedophlia in Clark County. I’m sure we could come up with five or six additional contradictory options; throw in a couple of double negatives, prejudicial & excess verbiage, and call it a mandate. Let the People decide!

JohnK — November 11, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

IF this is true, I'm disgusted by it..

Obama using food-stamp cash to fund Michelle’s ‘Let’s Move’

It’s come to this. Some 76 million meals a year will vanish from this city — poof! — partly because the president diverted money from SNAP to the first lady’s signature program, part of her Let’s Move anti-obesity initiative — the bean-sprout-heavy, $4.5 billion Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act.

The great food grab began in 2010, when President Obama, with Michelle and US Department of Agriculture honchos at his side, signed the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act. At the time, he admitted taking cash from one pocket to feed the other.
“Some of the funding [for the lunch program] comes from rolling back temporary increases in food-stamp benefits,” he said, starting in the fall of 2013.
“I’m committed to working with [Congress] to restore these funds in the future.”
It proved to be magical thinking.
Part of the problem is that the food-stamp program has grown like wildfire under Obama — to $80 billion last year, with a more than 70 percent increase in recipients just since 2008. Do they all need the help?
Hunger activists have lately rolled out hard-luck cases to the media, like grandmother Katherine McKinnon, who became a single mom of three after her daughter died.
McKinnon was last seen on CNN, walking the streets of New York hunting for cans to sell for a nickel apiece.
“No matter how people look at you, keep your head up,” she said.
Things will get even tighter. The Republican-controlled House wants to cut $39.9 billion over the next ten years from stamps under the farm bill now being negotiated, by eliminating fraud and asking able-bodied recipients to work or join jobs programs.
The Democrat-controlled Senate, which has asked for no such provisions, wants to cut $4.5 billion.

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link. I notice our state is ranked along with New Jersey as having the best laws, etc, in the nation.

I googled human trafficking for our area, and came up with numerous articles on forcing underage girls into prostitution. That's a topic that (sadly) makes the news several times a year. Local law enforcement is hindered by the runaway laws and waiting periods, but they appear very engaged.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Johnk

I say.....Have Sheriff Lucas allow the citizens to shine the light on his budget first. To subpoena the Sheriff to give his reasons why he wants to hide the numbers from public view.

That was done last week and not a word was said on the "why" he wants to hide the numbers. Mad-onis is an "accomplice" in that subject because he stated that he received a call from the Sheriff to not show some numbers or all numbers.

That is despicable, like the citizenry is too stupid or not "mature enough" to understand numbers and justifications for spending that money.

I am not buying this plea for more money. A lot of people, especially women raise a big stink and are willing to open their husband's wallets (chauvinistic statement, hey it works, I'll use it..LOL) out of FEAR!

Here you have Carolyn Crain on her facebook page for this veterans day a cartoon like picture of a soldier telling a citizen, "don't expect government to protect you, get a gun like the constitution says and defend yourself".....

Well, on this one I am in agreement with that right wing whacko. When is my life, I will assume the responsibility to protect, self, family and property. I need no help. I will deal with the pot smokers and the gangsters. The first I will sing with him/her Country Joe and the Fish song and with the other, I would encourage to reroute their aim to the big fish that ruined this country and continue ruining it. You know who you are....


nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Barking Announcement ****

Stop Buying $hit, Stop storing $hit.

See, we have a consumer society. Earn and spend in useless $hit most of the time. Say no to fashion. Say no to buying new vehicles. Say no to planned obsolescence.

Stop wasting the little money you have. Buy functional things, things that can help you attain an objective, like a tool, a clever gadget, information if not free.

Why is this bark so important? Because over 60% of our economy depends on consumption. But you can't maintain this economy if you don't have discretionary income and you need to just buy products and services to barely survive.

That is the problem people. I see restaurants packed almost everyday of the week at hot spots. There you go, $80-$150 bucks to convert in crap for good toilet flush. Isn't that stupid when you can it like a king for $20 at home and put $130 of those $150 to develop an idea?

I don't know, I turn on the TV and it is all or violence, crook politicians or buy this $hit!

Stop buying $hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 11, 2013 at 9:10 a.m.

Probably not a good idea. Editor Lou would feel obligated to weigh in and say eliminating pensions would be the best way to make ends meet.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 11,& 9:43 Heck, if we could just eliminate the cost of Benson's pension, we could probably fund six new deputies and half a helicopter.

JohnK — November 11, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Has anyone gone into the newly remodeled Jiffy mart on HWY 99.. It's amazing how many different pipes one can buy there. You also have a pipe shop right next to it.. If I were a CCSO I would just park in an unmarked car accross the street, run the plates for every visitor and I think one could be Sherriff of the year. First off when they pull into the parking lot in the wrong direction, that should be a clue right there..

Puppy, you have a few good ideas, the problem is you will need to hire a few more cops to actually do the police work, which is fine as well as they get these folks off the street.....You are right, it's not rocket science to catch most of these folks...

vanwadreamer — November 11, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.,

Dog Biscuit - Perhaps a bit harsh a solution. Some of us are real tired of seeing you get all worked up and then suddenly -poof- he's gone (again). And we haven't exhausted our supply of "witty" doggy names yet.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 11, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

Excellent proposal.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wasn't aware that pot smokers are at the root of a crime wave. Fortunately, I can't stand Doritos. (Now, if I find the supermarkets running out of Cheez-Its, I'll think about changing my tune.)

roger — November 11, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Doggie, you sound like the terminator when he ran for gov down in Ca. ' let's open the books, check out the money,'...bla bla to no end. Unfortunately, the books were open the whole time. A little fact he ignored.
then he called them girlie men, then he had to shut up, ....then he learned his lesson.

Then Maria threw him out, but that's another topic. I digress.

Point is, you cannot withhold needed funding for years. It will bite you in the butt eventually.
Fluffy open parks and lifeguards, no development fees, window dressing to ignore the real issues.

luvithere — November 11, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa (9:57), so then you would have a deputy surveilling citizens engaged in a wholly lawful act; that is, the purchase of smoking paraphernalia? I find that interesting, beings the Sheriff stated a call to 911 has a 47% chance of response by the department as is.

Drift — November 11, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I could write a book about crime barely based on a citizen's observation view point, but let me summarize a bit...

The books tell the story. How? You start with a budget, you follow the money concerning the expenses and you evaluate the return on investment. That way, you can pretty much "evaluate" the "management function".

See, the Sheriff is an elected position by people that know nothing why they are electing this guy. They have no idea what this guy does all day, how he converts a budget dollar into a ten dollar return on investment of caught crooks (my minimum expected return from a tax dollar), BIG CROOKS, not a punk down the street that steals a car radio for his next fix. There are crooks in this county and in every county of the country that get away stealing billions of dollars of everybody's monies by cheating the system, cronyism, pushing drugs at a large scale, violating the public trust by buying politicians and government workers.

I don't give a rats A$$ about the terminator. I am a techno/meritocrat. I believe in real numbers and results. Politicians as actors do play roles. They are "in character", so they can lie "professionally" and get away with it. Dumb people buy their story telling...

Nope, we need surgeons, we need knives, we need to cut, dig in and get rid off the tumors so it does not kill the patient....

We start with the books and the contracts. We follow with the unions and their perks. We analyze the community needs and the cost of crime. We evaluate violent and not violent crimes, we identify the economic damage to the community, we arrive at return on investment. We educate and arm the citizens, we organize block by block, we know who is who and who does what

We figure out a way to work intelligently against crime, not the same old, do nothing, spin wheels and spend. Buy tanks to kill a punk stealing a candy bar at the local 7/11.

We can do better. This whining has to stop. Benton has to go. I want my money back! You want your money back but you can't get it back. Why? Because of that tumor that is killing this patient. That stubborn tumor that is growing and growing and we don't have the guts to get rid off.

Same with the Sheriff. Justify your salary and your budget. Not telling Mad-onis that you can't show the numbers. State your reason publically. Own up the trust the citizens have delegated to you. Get an "intelligent" police force, not brutes with guns. Start with accounting experts and go seize that money the professional crooks are stealing.

We need return on investment. We need the big fat thieves in the slammer and put their loot in the general fund or give it back to the victims. Yes, those that wear a suit and a tie.

Lastly, put the prisoners to work!

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift, I know there buying something leagally..maybe not with legally begotten money but thta's another story... That was not my point..My point was this place has turned into something it wasn't not long ago as has most of the mini marts.. It's all about the smoking paraphernalia....Walk into almost any mini mart these days outside Plaid Pantry and 7/11 and what do you see. there all the same.... Now if you go further check the crime statistics in each of these areas near the markets. In my lincoln NH, that crime is huge within just blocks of these stores. Mostly petty property prowls and vandalism..But it all adds up... Drugs bring crime.. Legally or otherwise... I'm sure these folks all have less than the state requirements and are or card holding medicinal folks...

vanwadreamer — November 11, 2013 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 11, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. et all---

Took a look at the forum to get my mind off things. My 22 yr old nephew crashed his motorcycle last night in Vegas and was pronounced dead at the scene. Spoke with family awhile ago and as you can imagine everyone is a mess. A total bummer.

nailingit — November 11, 2013 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa, a person in this state needn't have a medical recommendation to consume cannabis. There was that 502 thing.

And here we have a bit of a chicken egg situation, eh? Does glassware on the store shelves promote crime, or is the capitalistic shop owner merely catering to the local clientele?

To behonest with you, I'm torn about displaying those wares next to the counters at the type of market you describe. But, what if instead of leading a bright young person into a life of heroin addiction they lead to a discussion (with a parent(s)) about drug use and abuse?

You know, kind of like when you're taking a walk with a child and come across two dogs, uh, uh, you know - doing it. And the child asks, "What are they doing mommy?" Do you tell them, "Playing, dear." Or does the remainder of the walk's discussion revolve around animal instincts, procreation, "And oh, look! There's a bee!"

Drugs bring crime vanwa because of the outrageous markup of the product and the fact peddling dope without a license is a crime in this country. It's been years ago, but I recall a black-market for Levi's jeans in the U.S.S.R. (I said it was years ago). Yes, criminals were selling jeans for two hundred bucks a pop (U.S.D.).

Oh, and I just caught your statement, "Drugs bring crime..Legally or otherwise..." I didn't latch on to the "Legally or..." part on my first pass. Would you care to expound on that a tad?

Drift — November 11, 2013 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Damn, nail. My condolences and best wishes for healing.

Drift — November 11, 2013 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 11, 2013 at 12:02 p.m.

Sorry to hear that Nail, terrible tragedy for one so young. My thoughts go out to you and the rest of his family.

frobert — November 11, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, my thoughts are with you and your family. This is terrible.

luvithere — November 11, 2013 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: My deepest and most sincere condolences to you and your family for the tragic loss of your young nephew.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry to hear that Nails. RIP. He was doing what he loved to do. Not many can say that.

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm so sorry to hear of your nephew's untimely death. He was so young...

My thoughts and prayers to you and your family during this very difficult time.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I am so sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts are with your whole family. Hang in there. People here do really care.

timerick — November 11, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - So sorry to hear. I know we're an anonymous group, but if there's anything you need. say so.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"""Police arrest five men in drug trafficking case"""

Pups...THIS is one prime example why our Sheriff's Department needs a financial boost. Chop shops for stolen vehicle parts combined with a huge meth ring. It's getting worse out there. You even said it yourself as holycrapola that it was getting worse.

As if that weren't enough, how 'bout this one, Pups...

"""Heroin seized, three arrested in Vancouver drug bust"""

...and this one...

"""Three Arrested in Clark County Drug Bust""";=10446

Why is it that any time something as important as police are so adamant against it?

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not that pup, goldie, but I'll ask you post some articles about solved murders, rapes, strong arm robberies, etc.

I know how to eradicate (most) drug crime. It's as easy as taking "crime" out of the equation.

I don't recall the exact numbers, so I'll shoot from the hip. Around 1960 about 90% of murders were solved. Today that number is around 60%. Why is that, do you think?

Drift — November 11, 2013 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie I could be wrong but what I read in to what the puppy wrote is different. I see it as being accountable with the money they have. What expenses are and what they are used for. The sheriff needs to let people know where the money is going. I am not saying to release names of informants but tell us how much is spent on the program. Lets look at funds that may have been deverted to someplace else. If they can do that and they still need more than we can at least try to see to it that he is funded for what he needs.

timerick — November 11, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Peanuts GD

First off, the police catches less than 1% of the stuff that is out there. Watch Drugs, Inc. in the National Geographic channel. You can cook meth with a plastic bottle of soda now a days. Home "chemists" are taking over the market. Pretty soon you will have home made heroin as the big licensed labs do. The police can't catch up when the incentive is money for the crooks. On the other hand, they make money on the backs of these knuckleheads by sub-contracting out a jail "industry" that we all pay for, that is "service + profit" nicely billed and packaged for tax payer consumption as "fear" we need more money to fight this.

Just change the law. Death penalty for drug dealers. End of story. End of the problem.

For hard core drug users, military training camp and hard work. End of the substance abuse problem. The more free time a low IQ brute has on his hands, the more alcohol and drugs he consumes. Give people jobs so they feel worth of something, restore their dignity so they can succeed at life, not look forward to a jail cell for living in trailer parks, ghettos, government dependency, lack of education, broken families, etc.

Repression is not where is at as is. It is just hiding the problem under the rug. We have a culture problem, a society problem. Capitalism has failed miserably. Only the strongest, sharper at stealing other people's monies or exploiting the work of others for their benefit does not bring happiness nor prosperity to the one below.

We have got a "society problem" that nobody wants to address and solve. We are not getting anywhere and our best days are over, not what others force you to think. Two classes only, the rulers and the ruled.

Don't believe me? Then, why are you complaining? How is it working for you? Do you do anything you want? OR are you enslaved by the parameters that another dictates concerning amount of free time, quality of life and money accumulation?

How much money do you have? News to you and all. The only money you have is the money in your pocket. The bank has the rest if you have any stashed up and there, that is it, home and car included unless you own them free and clear.

Assume your citizen responsibility. Do a visual census of your own block Share with others. Organize. Turn in the crooks. As simple as that. Man up! That is what we do. The only one we have been able to stop is the out of state suvs delivering drugs in a heart bit and skipping town. No sheriff to be found, not because they don't have money it is because they are sleeping at the wheel. They are clueless at what is going on in the neighborhoods, they just don't care. They want their money, their take to bother to do their job. Citizens can stop 95% of this $hit!

Oh, Pot is not a drug. Alcohol is, and it kills you! It is legal and guess who is behind it.....Big money! ;)

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tim -

You, Sir, are brilliant. That is exactly what the flea bitten mongrel was saying. And you know who else says the same thing? His favorite local politician - Madonis (whatever he calls him). Is it possible he's really a Madore admirer?

roger — November 11, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And with that, I've really got to bail and get my yard raked.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Let me correct this sentence. The only ones "we haven't" been able to stop are those out of state Suvs...

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice try Roger, now if he fires Benton, hires a professional in that position, sits down with the citizens and mends his ways from now on, I am open to at least give him a chance.

As is with his ambiguous stance, no way Joseph!

Stop giving me your fleas you darn roger mutt, don't you know you are talking to a pure breed know it all here? LOL

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So sorry to hear about your nephew. Hurts my heart, will keep you and your family in my thoughts.

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 2:13 p.m.

Poop Breath - Sorry, you've been getting over because everyone thinks puppies are cute. Well, I'm a cat person, and we know the spoiled little puppy grows up to be an ill tempered, despicable tick taxi. Face it, you've managed to step in a pile of your own doggie doo and have been outed as a closet Madorite.

There's no arguing your way out of this one. Time to tuck your tail and slink away. (Whimpering would be appropriate.)

roger — November 11, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hahahahaahah ouch! That sounds gay Roger.... Can I have a redhead instead? LOL

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 11, 2013 at 4:11 p.m

Don't forget they even will eat their own poop too! ;)

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey gang, Dan Rather is doing a documentary right now on comcast, channel 798 (axs TV) on aging bridges and decaying infrastructure in the US today. Very informational, check it out...

Conclusion, we will pay and big bucks due to poor maintenance....

Check it out..

nicepuppy — November 11, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you to all, your comments are much appreciated. Some things just don't make any sense. Headed down to Vegas soon. I sure wish it was for a different reason.

nailingit — November 11, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi - Yes - And roll in it too.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Be safe, Nails. Life doesn't always make sense - Sometimes it just is.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Roger, well my dog doesn't roll in it...maybe cause she's female and knows better..pure breeds you know..uppity attitude and the mixed bred know the type, mutt comes to mind will roll-in and eat then try to give you kisses!

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From today's Columbian: "A Vancouver-based development company has teamed up with Japan's largest homebuilder to develop $600 million worth of apartments in urban centers from Seattle to Los Angeles, all geared for the bike-riding, walking and public-transit-riding "Y" generation.
The developments would add a total of 2,330 apartments in Seattle, Hillsboro, Ore., Denver and Los Angeles, said Clyde Holland, chief executive officer and chairman of Vancouver-based Holland Partner Group. The five sites share common location attributes such as being within light-rail commute or walking distance of high-paying office, professional and tech-sector jobs, said Holland."

I'm sure there's an interesting back story because Mr. Hudson appears to be associated with a last minute $5,000 contribution to Bill Turlay, not someone I'd associate with high-tech light rail friendly developments.

JohnK — November 11, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

to those grieving loss of loved ones: praying for you. probably get worse before it gets better (first reacton is numbness -- it fades, unfortunately). it DOES get better, eventually.


madore madore madore....
he's doing what he campaigned for...why all the bitching? or is it because you're the ones who didn't vote for him.....

GOLDIE: thank God your loved one is safe. you must be walking two feet off the ground :)

CCSO: i live in uncorp. county, too. just a cat's run north of really bad area. see lots of patrols. that, along with'personal protection devices' make me feel like being on the front lines of the war on crime isn't so bad. have a biiiig backup available. maybe we can have a mega-bake/garage/something sale and get 'em a new car or maybe even a helicopter. if nothing else, we could generate enough news to shame the county into increasing funding :)


DeeLittle — November 11, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: We're thinking of you and your family. Have a safe trip there and back. So sorry for your unimaginable loss.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK @ 6:06 PM: Most excellent research. Mr. Holland does not mind cashing in on light rail access in other cities, does he? Of all the Vancouver city council candidates, Frank Decker had the least to offer anyone. Not hard to see, and it is reflected in the largest margin of loss of all those races. I cannot imagine what Holland expected to gain from that $5000. gamble.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Misread or am tired or distracted by nailingit's loss. The donation was for Turlay. Makes more sense to me, given how close that race was. Investing in buildings near light rail elsewhere but not here: kind of a NIMBY twist.

manthou — November 11, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, it was a bittersweet relief knowing the family members have "survived" the worst typhoon in history, but that is all we know for now.

Nails...I wish you a safe trip as you head to Vegas to join your family and show support for this horrific situation.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pups, the reason why I asked you the question I did was because of this statement you had made which presented you as anti-police -

"""If the Sheriff would use his brain to hit the crime that causes the most damage in a community, yes indeed, "financial crimes", he would have money to give away. Asset forfeiture to financial crooks."""

If you go back and read the articles I'd shared, you will see that asset forfeiture was evident in the crackdown of each bust. You on the other hand, was trying to say the Sheriff wasn't using his brain to hit the crime that causes the most damage in a community. Pups...these busts were not small-time backdoor two-bit meth heads...and there's plenty more including one off of 88th Street north of Orchards about a month ago. I understand that you speak of the crimes committed by those in political leadership or committed by those who pay out to the politicians for "special bennies"...but I believe that would be out of Sheriff Lucas' jurisdiction. That actually might be a WSP issue or even higher ranking officials. Now...if you could get the trend started in your OWN community, then maybe we might see a trend that will cross the river into my side of the river. We rarely see anything of that magnitude unless the politician has slipped up (like the Portland City Council Member who recently stepped down for having an with possible drug charges pending)...8))

I agree that transparency in funding for the CCSO is vital before providing any additional cash funds to support our CCSO but the truth is...Sheriff Lucas was micromanaging the department to the best of anybody's ability and it's time to invest in our community...and it begins with the sheriff's department. be continued

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Pups, you mentioned that the police catch less than 1%. Why don't you ask why??? PC always gets in the way of a the point that the criminal has more rights than the victim. I'm not speaking of actual evidence which proves a person's innocence. I'm speaking of technicalities which allow the crooks to go free, even if they're guilty as sin. Top that off with budget cuts, price of...well...just about everything going up these's no wonder the police are fighting a losing battle!

You then mentioned "Two classes only, the rulers and the ruled." No opposition by me on that one.

Then you said """Assume your citizen responsibility. Do a visual census of your own block Share with others. Organize. Turn in the crooks. As simple as that.""" Again... no opposition by me. That's exactly what our "block share" does, Pups. Ohh...could I tell you some stories but if I did, you might find out where I live and anonymity is crucial for me.

And finally... you said """Oh, Pot is not a drug. Alcohol is, and it kills you! It is legal and guess who is behind it.....Big money! ;)""" I agree with your statement, but one of the articles I shared had to do with a drug smuggling operation which involved meth from Mexico as well as chop shops and money laundering...not marijuana.

Keep focused, dogman. You don't want to lose credibility in your statements.

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Clyde Holland is a Repub. He have $100K to Romney's campaign.

Cami Joner has been pushing the Holland Group for a while now. Must be nice to get all this free publicity.

roger — November 11, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou: I agree Mr. Decker did not have much to offer. He thought he could be on Madores coat tails. That was a mistake for all who thought they could. Madore was like a death toll for those who he backed. I will be very honest here I voted for Modore. I thought he could shake things up a bit. He did but he tried to do it all at once. Sometimes it takes some time and you need to walk softly but still wield the big stick when needed. He tried to do to much to fast. I have lived here all my life and it has always been one power group or another that has held the power here. I was hoping that things would change. But it seems to go from one group to the other. That leaves us living with what they want us to live with. I love this county and town but we have always been subject to the ones that rule. I know that I will not get everything that I would like. And I can live with that. But I would like to see those of us that are the small fries be taken into the system. Wishful thinking on my part. On your post about investing in buildings, in the last couple of weeks there has been several properties down town along the rail route that have changed hands. I have thought about mine but I think I will hold out for awhile.

timerick — November 11, 2013 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 11, 2013 at 1:34 p.m. and anybody else who might take the time to read this comment (more random thoughts)

We should both clarify and state "Reported" crimes. How many are not even reported??? How many murders are of runaways or kidnapping victims and how many of those victims were raped or sodomized??? The same goes for those involved in heavy drug use. Usually...murder, theft, robberies...they're all tied in to the family-wrecker called addiction. The police...they don't have the capacity to take in every heroin or meth addict. Instead, they push for them to turn state's evidence in order to get cleaned up...hoping they get enough evidence to get the big guys. (I'd like to see the stats on how many have actually cleaned up). When we read the statistics, we read each and every crime, but how many are connected in a chain of events? And what does that do to the "data" reports??? How accurate IS the data??? And how many crimes never make it TO the news???

A complicated situation, wouldn't you say???

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 11, 2013 at 7:54 p.m

One would have to also ask, .. How many crimes that ARE reported and nothing is done?

Case..Several weeks ago my husband pick-up..someone threw paint over the tail-gate and the passenger side,..cost to remove paint and replace parts that the auto body couldn't get clean..over $2,500. We were told by VPD, no money in the budget, government is in shut down.
Nothing was was done.
Just last night, someone decided to take a ice pick to both tires on the passenger side plus to the passenger side fender. We called the East precinct, closed. So jumped online to file a report. Report filed, then found out it will be 5 or more business day BEFORE we find out via email IF the report is approved. APPROVED for WHAT?
Just WHAT in the hell are we paying these people for? To look good while driving around in a patrol car?

We have lived here since 1978, same house, never ever in all the years here, have we ever had anything like this happened before. We are on good terms with our neighbors, no problems with kids, nothing we can figure out why us?

ELISI — November 11, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 11, 2013 at 12:02 p.m.

Was that the one on I-15 last night, I went right by it. Is there anything I can do for you? I'll be here until Wednesday. Just let me know.

hawkeye — November 11, 2013 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


this isn't an excuse for what you experienced; just a reality of the job. i'd suggest doing a little of their work for them; take pictures, lots. look around for anything that may have been left by the scum that did it, take pics of that, too. maybe even tire or shoe imprints.....never know what may help.

my brother-in-law was a deputy sheriff for LA. county. the number of extremely violent crimes were so high each night there had to be a priority system imposed. while this is HARDLY los angeles county, the fact that the sheriff has to do more with ever shrinking less means that some ppl may have to be tabled for a while.

again, NOT excusing CCSO, but they may have had all their available personnel out already on high-violence calls.

DeeLittle — November 12, 2013 at 1:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 7:43 pm: Your voice makes a difference, so I am glad you are hanging in downtown. Email the city council when you have a concern. I do. Yeah, the real estate and rents downtown (and uptown) are hot right now, especially on and near the proposed LR. There is a small town home live/work unit project going in at 9th and Daniels, too. The mayor supposedly bought one already.
Busy day in Clark County political football: CC Commission hearing on Integrity Resolution #4,857 at 10:00 am. C-Tran Board meeting at 5:30. Pizza and beer in front of Channel 23 tonight. Coffee and muesli in the morning.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie asks, "A complicated situation, wouldn't you say???"

Yes and no.

Granted, the organization presenting the following facts are pro-prohibition repeal, however the data is viable.

Interpret the numbers and come to your own conclusion.
What -I- and many other see is, if drug abuse was treated as a social health issue and not a crime then much of the crime associated with trafficking, and petty crime associated with procuring that next fix, would vanish.

Also, with drugs out of the law enforcement system the coppers could dedicate more time to murders, rapes, human trafficking, assault, etc.

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, my heart goes out to you and your family. My sincerest condolences to all. All of us here on the forum have in the past not always got along, but when tragedy strikes one of us we do come together. Again Nails thoughts and prayers to you and all of your family.

JohnCasey — November 12, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 10:57 pm: I think there were two motorcycle crashes in Vegas that night. I think that nailingit's nephew might have been the one on Dean Martin Drive in the wee hours of the morning.

If you connect with nailingit and his family there, give him a hug for us all.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the day (fleas included :) ***

So, I am very confused. Since the "budget" numbers are not included to do a comparative analysis and "ass-uming" the Sheriff's words that he has been given no money due to budget cuts, economic distress, etc. The crime stats tell us in a way that he is doing just fine...

Still, I think that we are not getting a good return on investment budget dollar wise. The big money stolen is in the suit and tie segment of society. So I would give priority to violent crimes and white collar crimes.

Someone mentioned that white collar crimes are not part of the Sheriff responsibilities, that is of the WSP?

Regardless, we know very little about the Sheriff's office and their expenses. All I see is a tank, high power weapons, intimidation, killing when a life could be saved but it is terminated just like it means nothing.

Take the secrecy out of that department. That is all I order to determine if the priorities are right...

Still no press release of why Lucas called Madonis on hiding his payables information and Madonis backpedaled, all of the Commissioners are accomplices in this "silence".

How can we trust them? Are they crazy or something? Patronizing us? Does their "secret" have to do with national security or something?

Sorry, I am not chewing that bone and I will scratch that flea of dictatorship practices from the BOCC and the Sheriff's Office as fast as a morning turd!

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 6:25 a.m.

I certainly hope you do not consider the drug smugglers (coke, meth, heroin for examples) such as the crowd associated with the faux auto body shops as people with a social health issue. They're the ones the police force focuses on, not the nickle and dimers. They're the scourge of our society and need to be prosecuted to the full extent. You know who else I see as a problem to our society??? Big Pharma with certain physicians and their abuse to patients, forever changing prescripts... putting people on stronger drugs to mask the pain rather than focusing on the cause of the pain in the first place. Granted, there are many who have no other choice...I exclude them, but I do not exclude the Physicians who cut people off COLD TURKEY from certain Schedule II prescription drugs.

And drift...just to get the record straight...I wasn't inferring anything to do with cannabis as a "drug." Cannabis is a plant. Coke, meth and heroin are processed narcotics. There is a difference.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Garry Lucas is one of the most powerful politicians in Clark County and he carries a whole lot of gravitas. Maybe he is thinking of a run for a different political office in the next couple of years. If he ran against Steve Stuart, he might win. If the sheriff runs against Madore in a primary, well, it is no contest.

Let's watch the looming testosterone battle between the CC Commission and Lucas and see who is the last man standing. I know who my money is on.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.

I notice you had City of Vancouver data as one of your links. I believe CCSO's jurisdiction does not cover most regions within city limits...except as an assist. Maybe a comparison of city versus county...coupled with an estimated of the number of residents outside city boundaries outside the city limits of Battleground, Camas, Washougal, Woodland, LaCenter and Ridgefield...then compare the number of crimes outside these city limits WITH the actual number of residents outside city limits and you'll get a better idea of Clark County's crime stats.

Here's an interesting link worth checking out. It lets you know exactly what is going on in the neighborhoods throughout the county. I'm not sure if it shows everything, including ongoing investigations, but it's still a good one for everyone to see.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal more thing, Pups...I do believe there is an element of National Security when it comes to policing of our community. It may be something our grandparents would roll around in their graves over, but we live in different times and along with those "different times," comes different policing. We cannot afford to have the police "let their guard down" due to budgetary woes. I believe active participation in the process by members of the community who question the finances of our sheriff's department would give them a better perspective of just what the problematic areas are...and maybe some educated suggestions would be heard.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your missing my point, goldie.

Drug smugglers exist because drug smuggling is a lucrative business. It's so because coke, meth and heroin are illegal. That illegality is what drives the market. It's a vicious circle.

The coca leaf it takes to produce one kilo of cocaine costs the manufacturer around $650. That kilo of coke can be bought for around $2,200. in Columbia. That same kilo sells for around $24,000. here in the States.

Think of it like the fire triangle, goldie. Fire requires heat, fuel and oxygen. If any one of the three are removed, poof, no fire. Take the financial incentive out of peddling dope and, poof, no smuggling.

When the smuggling stops (does that mean we make coke in labs here?) the crime associated with it stops. THEN we can deal with drug abuse (notice I don't write "use") as a social/health issue. But not until.

And if you'll allow me to split a hair here: Cocaine and heroin are, in essence, plants ☺

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You can crunch the numbers anyway you want GD. The problem is the "secrecy", the back pedaling, the priorities among others like not getting the real story and the 10.5 mill liability.


What is your love affair with Lucas? Lucas and Madonis belong to the same party, that is a no go from the start. Both think that they are above anybody else. One even dare to keep the numbers secret giving no explanation.

You people make no sense in a free, plural, transparent and meritocratic society.

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The thing that really puzzles my mind is that pot is completely legal in North Korea. Imagine that, what a contradiction.

I agree with drift 100%, take the money out of the equation and there will be no crime.

Money is the evil of evils. I am starting to think that way.

Would your woman love you if you did not have a pot to piss on? I don't think so....LOL

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 12, 2013 at 1:33 a.m

We are city, so it's the VPD I am angry with.

We found the paint can thrown in the park across from our house. Was told since it was out in the weather (light rain) it was worthless as evidence. This time with the tires, they used an ice pick. We looked, nothing left behind.

As far as footprints..none, they entered via the street right up our driveway both times.

Very brazen move I might add, since we are on a corner lot WITH a street light. Our driveway is lit up. Can't get the truck in the garage, too long with the extended cab on it.
We decided last night, we will now leave the truck at his office, locked in the shop over the weekends from now on. Can't keep going through this kinda crap every few weeks, and sure as hell don't want the insurance company to drop us. Husband has been with this company since he was 14, he will be 65 in a few months.

ELISI — November 12, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For $379 you can get a video surveillance system like a Lorex or the like. It comes with two cameras that are infrared for night vision and motion detectors. It has a 4 GB card or you can expand to 16 GB.

Do it. Cheaper than your car or home insurance deductible. Easy to set up. Turn it on are you are on TV...LOL

Some of these systems can send the video live to your Iphone 24/7.

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After finding an individual prowling around and having had my pickup rumaged through I bought a surveillance system. At present I've only one camera pointed at our vehicles. When I get the current system paid off this month (Sears card) I'll buy another camera. The system will take a total of four. I'm adding cameras as finances allow.

The monitor is in the bedroom, visible from the bed. Though it runs continually I only turn on the motion sensor recording option when I retire or leave the house. The thing alarms when it's tripped.

I haven't the foggiest if those glowing LED lights (night vision) are a deterrent, but we haven't had any problems since I put it up.

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.

How am I missing the point, drift? By eliminating laws controlling the substance, you think that will stop the import and sale of the product??? You think it will stop the vicious cycle??? If you do...well my friend, I've got a dry lake bed in a desert I'd love to sell ya. The dope would still be sold. People would still abuse, lie, steal...even kill for the crap whether it be by the addict OR the person selling it. And no drift, ...cocaine and heroin are processed for use. They are a processed byproduct. Marijuana is simply dried, rolled and smoked. Anything beyond that is a processed byproduct.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had a close friend or family member try to take their own lives because of their addiction to heroin? Have you ever had to deal with trying to reason with these people...trying to get help for them in their state of confusion shortly before their attempts at taking their own lives? Have you ever seen the aftereffects after their failed attempts and the physical and mental state they have to endure? Who is it you think ends up paying for it besides the pain and heartache the addict and their family and friends have to go through?

It goes way beyond just the problems of an addict, drift. Our health care industry is crippled by this disease. Heck, we can even thank our health care industry for aiding and abetting some of the illegal scheduled drugs out in the world. The narcotic industry also involves corrupted politicians and other governing forces. As long as there's a little dip dip in the hands of those we entrust to be in charge...the problem remains the same.

Drift, this is where I respectfully disagree with you regarding laws and narcotics. We NEED to keep and Schedule I and even some Schedule II drugs outlawed altogether. I only wish our failed leadership and policing agencies would get a better handle on the situation rather than just playing leapfrog with the crooks and the people.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pups and drift, I find it disconcerting that in this day and age, we need to monitor our homes with surveillance...the very issue many find as an invasion of privacy...but it's a reality we all live. Sadly, some policing agencies won't even take the time to review, unless there's a pattern of multiple criminal acts which involve injury to a person. Of anything, the surveillance cameras will allow the owner to see if they recognize the perps.

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, I'm so sorry you have to go throw the neglect of policing in your neighborhood, whether it be community watch OR even VPD. Maybe even warning signs that your property is under surveillance might be a deterrent. I wish you luck in finding who the perps are and force them to pay you and your hubby back.

(on a side note...CAPTCHA is criminal!!! I HATE CAPTCHA!!!)

goldenoldie — November 12, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Many community volunteers have joined the Neighbors on Watch (NOW) program, sponsored by the Vancouver Police Department. Clark County is getting in on it, too, finally, so you don't have to live in Vancouver.

We have several persons in our neighborhood who have graduated from this 24 hour training program and are a big support for community policing and crime deterrence.

I visited a neighbor on Sunday, who was manning the "home base" radio for two hours as part of her 4 hour a month commitment. Fascinating and effective way to support law enforcement.

They are not gun-toting vigilantes, mind you.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is the Clark County NOW link for those who live outside Vancouver:

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nicotine and alcohols are as potent and human killing than any of the scheduled drugs.

The difference is that in those two someone profits long term from the addictions.

Your focus is wrong and it is based in propaganda drilled in your brain by special interest.

AS long as we have money in the middle, all bets are off. We die and paying while at it.

There some really evil people in charge GD. Drugs, alcohol, tobacco and processed food, some mighty profiting scheme and some Dante's Inferno results.

Death may not be such a bad idea. At least you stop earth terms....LOL

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It just goes to show you, you need to check out your candidates!

HOUSTON (KHOU/CNN) - Less than a week after winning a local election in Houston, one candidate is already embroiled in a racial controversy.

Critics of Dave Wilson, a white republican, are taking issue with his campaign strategy to win in a majority African American district.

"I had always said it was a long shot. No, I didn't expect to win," Dave Wilson said.

Wilson ran against Houston Community College Trustee Bruce Austin who voters have elected and re-elected for 24 years.

"Well I was rather disgusted," Austin said.

Disgusted by something that turned up in voters' mailboxes.

Most of the voters in the district involved in the election are African American. Wilson sent out a bunch of direct mail pieces implying that he's African American.

His fliers depicted smiling African American faces.

The words said, "Please vote for our friend and neighbor Dave Wilson."

The pictures, he admits, were just lifted off the internet.

The flier said he was endorsed by Ron Wilson.

But not the former state representative, the fine print says Ron Wilson is Dave Wilson's cousin.

"That's correct, we are," Dave Wilson said.

In a heavily African American district Dave Wilson won by 26 votes.

"I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good for both democracy and the whole concept of fair play, but that was not his intent apparently," Austin said.

Austin has said he'll ask for a recount, but in an era of electronic voting, political analysts think Dave Wilson's victory will hold despite his deliberately deceptive fliers.

Dave Wilson has denied all of the claims.

Copyright 2013 KHOU via CNN. All rights reserved.

hawkeye — November 12, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am very sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts and prayers go with you and your family. I will be at a Remembrance this Sat as one of my best friends and mentor passed away over the weekend. I have been reflecting about hime these pass few days and how he impacted me and others around him.Just wish the sun was out today...

vanwadreamer — November 12, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Would that be Groom Lake, goldie?

I was a dope addict back in the mid-80's, goldie. I was fired from a job, tossed out of rental houses, jumped power meters to get the power turned back on, traded my child's Atari for a bag of dope... I currently have a granddaughter strung out on heroin. We dread that call. You know the call I'm speaking of.

Yes, I'm quite aware of the damage drug abuse can wreak. Quite.

Now let's talk about drug scheduling. This has been ongoing since 1970, and now there you sit in 2013 and tell me about the havoc arising from dope. Heroin and cocaine are cheaper today than they were back in '70, gold. Back in 1970 about 1.4% of the (U.S.) population had a drug problem. Do you know what that number is today? I'll tell you; about 1.4%.

How's that scheduling thing working out?

You mention medical costs. I'd suggest you take a look at some of the heroin maintenance programs across the pond. O.D.s plummet. The transfer of blood borne disease, plummet.

Though not related to medical costs, crime in many areas has decreased, as well. Some of those junkies in the program even hold down jobs (who'd'a thunk!).

I never suggested we totally deregulate dope. What I'm saying is if we throw a wrench in the black-market and stopped treating addicts like criminals THEN we might make some headway in reducing that 1.4% number.

In a sense, you contradict yourself, goldie. You opine about the pain of drug abuse and then you suggest we just keep on doing what we've been doing. Why? What we are doing is a miserable failure. I don't know about you, but me, when I find something doesn't work I'll then try something else.

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 9:32 am: What a brilliant marketing maneuver on behalf of that politician. Shame on us, collectively, for not taking the time to do our homework.

Just shows you how easily the masses can be manipulated by images, sound bites, emotion.

drift @ 9:38 am: You add a perspective that is worth considering. Thanks for piping up more often lately.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Do you guys believe this crap?

Me think that is a counter action to the legalization of pot that is dragging its feet like there is no tomorrow.

First, a guy walks around with what they claim as an "explosive device" attached to himself and Home Land Security is not involved? No measures were taken to have surveillance on this particular store locations to see if it is a guy that frequents these type of stores?

Second, why did the stores did not have extra security? Why did the employees did not tell the crook to blow himself up right there and then to see if he had the guts?

Maybe you are of the stupid gullible kind. I don't believe this story for a second.

If a guy can walk around in this day of age with an explosive device attached to self and the billions we spend in home land security and police forces plus their coordination, we ought to reconsider this extra money they want.

same with the kid that disappeared in Portland, how many years has he been missing with all the players in plain eye view?

Hmmmmm something smells rotten here... I say it is a hoax, the pot store thing. The police can't be that incompetent. Seriously!

Go for it Manthou, defend your Sheriff now...or are you going to hide the same as the "other" issues? you are a "special" kind of person. You run from the issues for some reason. At least GD states her points right or wrong...have to give her credit for that....

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What's up with this people?????????????????????????

A spin or true reality? Maybe that is why the need "mo money"?

I'll tell you. This information age is choking all of us in one way or another....

This is going worldwide by the way....

Prettey soon, someone will come up with "mobile disabling surveillance systems"....who knows... Jam the signals and on your way you go...

007 Where are you? LOL

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore just asked if the BOCC could move to approve his tome of a resolution BEFORE public testimony and Stuart had to explain to him that they cannot approve it BEFORE they hear from the public.

Someone ought to write these down and publish a book called, "Madore Says the Darndest Things."

If you are available, watch the show on Channel 23 live.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Deja vu all over again. Chris Cook hasn't seen until 15 minutes ago. What!?

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Considerable push back from PA Chris Cooke. She has just seen his latest round of amendments a few minutes ago.

Public commenter mentions legal concerns and liability.

A psychologist would have a diagnostic heyday by observing this.

Now they are taking postponing again. Mielke lecturing as if he understands.

Steve Stuart echoes my concerns about posting Ms. Couch's documents on CC "grid" implies a co-creation and endorsement that does not exist.


manthou — November 12, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pubic commenters show more legal expertise than what appears to have been given to Madore. New commenters are coming out of the woodwork. Good for them.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Public commenters. :0

Really, all this is not the job of the BOCC. That is the bottom line.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has Tiffany ever found anything unlawfull or close too with respects to the couple hundred million spent by the CRC. All I've read and heard is her claiming of millions of miss spent money....Have I missed something over the past year?

vanwadreamer — November 12, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer: If there was something she found unlawful, this would be in the hands of the state Attorney General, I would think.

Stuart wants to now go over every line and he is starting now with the title: drop "integrity."

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys: this BOCC meeting is getting beyond bizarre. Someone needs to pull the plug on Madore's ego-driven, obsessive/compulsive fixation on wasting time and dollars on a topic that is beyond the control and jurisdiction of the BOCC.

Steve Stuart is aging right before my eyes right now. It is like reasoning with a rock. Now Mielke is chiming in to make it even more obtuse.

This discussion needs to be held in a group therapy session with a professional therapist/mediator.

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't care if you ignore me Manthou but as I am watching this BOCC discussion I agree with the therapy, mental evaluation of the participants.

The problem we have here is stubborn people pulling political trickery and agendas based on an erroneous document that is ill prepared and not vetted completely.

Also, like many have said, is mixing too many things.

If you want integrity as a methodology and value with every contract based on the wish of the voters manifested by their representatives, you need only a couple of sentences. Period, this is ridiculous.

The way this is done with a list of principles to follow to apply to these type of decisions. If all principles are not obeyed, then the contract or decision is rejected. As simple as that.

This is such a waste of time. These people ought to be productive making our lives better, full employment, services, blah blah blah..

What are they doing????????????????

I want my money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the good side, Mielke is awake...LOL

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am using my dwindling brain cells to watch/listen to this. I think it is an addiction. 3.5 hours ++

Stuart is trying to help DM draft a factually correct resolution instead of coming back with another disjointed mess.
This discussion needs to be held in a group therapy session with a professional therapist/mediator. manthou

I'm just waiting for someone to say, "What I hear you saying is ...."

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stuart has a point concerning about what the voters voter for.

Madonis f...up!

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stuart is handling this very well. Madore seems more intent on provoking Stuart into a response that can spun into a political talking point than engaging in a meaningful dialogue.
Mielke is having trouble keeping up.

JohnK — November 12, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mielke was due at Billygan's two hours ago. He's fading fast.

I agree Stuart is handling this well but I wish he would plod through each of the points in the resolution.

This is coming back next week. All this is about something they don't control.

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mielke's forgot his diapers and he needs to go take a leak....


nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Said Stuart, get back to County work! Just the verified facts mam!

Case closed!

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Erik Hidle tweets a good point:

"Imagine comms spending this much time arguing over NASA. The control they have over NASA is equal to control they have over CRC. Zero."

So glad to hear Steve Stuart denounce the amount of time being wasted on an issue totally out of the BOCC jurisdiction.

I am sending him chocolates and flowers. Maybe a six pack of craft brew. :)

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I almost copied that tweet to the Forum too.

Now to get something done for 3 hours.

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I love Chris Cooke's honest retort when Madore looked at her and, "I haven't taken too much staff time on this, have I, Chris?"

She said, "Actually, I have spent a great deal of time on this."

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I turned the meeting on for just a few minutes. I've leafs (leaves?) to rake and dishes to get out of the sink. I don't like raking leafs. I don't like doing dishes. But I find both a better alternative than watching and getting all flustered. I don't watch my tee vee often, but I don't think tossing something heavy at it would be as productive as raking and washing and I'd 'prolly miss the thing in the long run.

I've a question. If it becomes obvious the Board is dysfunctional is there something in a state statute that would have it intervene? Okay, two questions. Do you think Stuart's new beard is stylin'?

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think that he looks like an Iranian. He ought to shave that double chin hiding screen.

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 11, 2013 at 10:57 p.m.

Looks like I won't be heading out for a day or two, as services (time will be set tomorrow) should be this week-end, and we have some obligations to tie up before leaving. Thank you so much for your offer. It means a lot.


All the great condolences and well wishing you folks have given are really appreciated, and a hearty thank you to all. Someday I hope our basement collective greet each other in person. It might sound weird to say, but this is like our own little family in this anonymous forum, and yet we don't really know each other! There has to be a book in here somewhere. Maybe our resident author & voice of reason, Drift, would consider penning one?

I did watch a good part of the BOCC. Until my mind started to melt. It's hard to believe so-much-time is being spent on, taking so-much-time. It's one thing to be a one trick pony like Madore, it's another to waste the commission's and taxpayer's time & dime. Maybe Stuart should offer a resolution of his own to address this. :)

"Steve Stuart is aging right before my eyes right now. It is like reasoning with a rock."

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.

I thought exactly the same thing. Maybe Madore's end game is to cause such a level of frustration as to hope Stuart will say 'uncle' and give in. Ridiculous argumentation (with his "integrity resolution") on Madore's part. And Meilke, when his words are intelligible, you wish they weren't. Time after time Stuart is the adult in the room.

Crain continues to scare the hell out of me.

Again-many thanks to everyone.

nailingit — November 12, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It was nice to read that someone from east County was spreading the good word about our leaglaized state pot law. 83ilbs of pot... He was caught for speeding. Dude use your cruise control unless you picked up a hitchhiker near Hermiston who threw in the trunk a large bag of the smelly stuff and forgot to get it when you dropped him off in salt lake..LOL dam forget everything when ya get those Munchies....

vanwadreamer — November 12, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: So good to see you check in with us. Glad you think of us as a supportive. I know we hope to be. A few of us have lost young adult children or young relatives suddenly and tragically. It is a grim brotherhood/sisterhood. One minute, they are running out the door with a hug and an "I love you" and the next minute you get that dreaded visit from the sheriff…..It is a long and slow, lifelong process: getting used to that kind of loss.

If we can be a distraction and help you along, all the better…..

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwa, it would seem to me that if you are carrying anything illegal it would be wise to obey the laws of the road. I can't believe how stupid some of these people can be. Maybe we could get some of them to come to work for the county or the city. I am sure a place could be found for them.

timerick — November 12, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

5:30 Round #2 of the day at the C-Tran board.... Oh man, Madonis is on a roll with his three questions...I know Mielke will nap through it but least give me a good show to watch.

Carolyn Crain and the Woman from Oregon expert in rules and regulations.... Do you guys get disability or something that have so much time to waste to say the same thing over and over? Seriously! You are wasting the Commissioner's time as uch as they are wasting theirs with their shennanigans and us footing the bill for all of you. Go home, get lost, get a life, get a hobbie!!!!!! LOL

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bertha was having fun agitating the faithful on Lew's website. I wonder if there will be a return engagement?

roger — November 12, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

TriMet retired their articulated buses in 1999. Wonder why Miller didn't know that?

roger — November 12, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Harry's dog is a movin' kinda slow....

roger — November 12, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Iguanas are good eating - grilled over a campfire and based with a BBQ sauce. Yum!!!

roger — November 12, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, as far as that C-Tran meeting goes --

roger — November 12, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Did you see your latest numbers? Still 900 votes to count tomorrow.

4,164 19.91%

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Good going, roger. Thousands of endorsements!

C-Tran Board: Madore is not getting a lot of support. He really angered Stuart and Stuart reversed what he said would have been a Yes vote.

Stuart says C-Tran should not reward "gotcha" behavior. This is the father of a toddler speaking. :)

manthou — November 12, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madonis should resign. Obviously he is getting no love but from his lap dogs.

What a circus. The guy is a laughing stock. He would be good as a dictator, nothing more.

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, all.

Well, it seems Reese Witherspoon was in Chinatown today - near Old Town Pizza - shooting whatever that project is she's here working on. The police had the street blocked off for them. And I've been told the usual crowd of homeless were nowhere to be seen.

Amanda Fritz must have been sleeping on the job. (Or perhaps she was deliberately kept in the dark.) I'd have thought she'd have been there demanding they hire the street crowd as extras.

Frankly, I have no clue who the girl is. But seeing as how The Columbian thought she was worth an article....

roger — November 12, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On the other hand, I made what I consider a tremendous score at the used video shop. The entire Cadfael series on DVD. This was another excellent project that Derek Jacobi, the star of I Claudius, worked in back in the 90s. A Crusader turned monk who solves murders in Merry Olde England.

roger — November 12, 2013 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know, it just hit me. Was that puppy biscuit I saw center stage during the audience participation part of the Board meeting? Nice puppy may be a misnomer of sorts - old dog seems more appropriate.

Ubangi - The little cat and the dirty dog

roger — November 12, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've been enjoying Jacobi in Last Tango in Halifax on PBS.

Witherspoon won Oscar for playing June Carter Cash in Walk the Line.

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Headed home tomorrow, can't wait, it's way too dry and un-green down here. Hard to believe they can make so many colors between beige and red. If you've ever been here, you know what I mean.

Nailingit, I'm really sorry for your loss, hang in there, I know exactly how you feel. Talk to you when you are up for it. Weather should be good for the next week.

hawkeye — November 12, 2013 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 12, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. -- Didn't know about that series. I guess I should read my OPB schedule mailers instead of just tossing into the recycle bin. I just checked the PBS website and got the gist of the show. Those two daughters look like trouble.

I'm not usually a fan of shows about relationships, but there was a Brit comedy that I considered great - To The Manor Born. Penelope Keith and Peter Bowles. It ran originally from '79 to '81; I saw it on BBC reruns when in Germany. No idea whether it made the PBS schedule. I got a BBC mailer a while back that said they reunited to do the series again - from a much later period in their lives. I'm not a fan of updates, etc, but I'm tempted to start looking for this one.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 5:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, To the manor born was on PBS. What a great show! She was also in Good Neighbors, another absolute British comedy riot. Ever saw Are you being served?

luvithere — November 13, 2013 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 12, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.

Drift, you said in your comment that in a sense, I contradicted myself. Well, does sound as though I did.

If you go back and read what I said, I'd stated the following

"We NEED to keep Schedule I and even some Schedule II drugs outlawed altogether. I only wish our failed leadership and policing agencies would get a better handle on the situation rather than just playing leapfrog with the crooks and the people."

Come to think of it, I am changing my tune a bit (after some consideration to what you had to share). There should be at least some type of limitations between legal and illegal drug use and I believe the drug schedules are a valuable guideline distinguishing the difference, although I believe cannabis should be downgraded from a schedule I drug to a schedule IV only due to the fact that some may become dependent of it for pain relief (keeping in mind that refined sugar can be addictive to just about anyone as well) or even eliminated from the schedules altogether, but that leaves the door open for other scheduled drugs and their removal from the lists as well.

And drift...I believe the current drug laws would work WITH some adjustments as modern medicine continues to discredit outdated information...IF there were a cleansing of special interests, personal agendas and corruption in the government at all levels...BUT...there needs to be more help out there for those addicted BEFORE they try to take their life. that's gonna happen!!!

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 12, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.

Pups...the voters (at least those of us who took the incentive to vote) let the county commissioners know where we stand on issues such as the loo and bus rapid transit. The voters also let the commissioners know where we stand on the east side bridge...

ALL personal agendas of Commissioner Madore (what I perceive as his number one flaw...even if I agree with him on loo stretching across the river on the I-5 Bridge).

That's the problem with advisory votes. The results give fire power to those whose agendas fit the project, even if they are worded in such a way that would suggest support to the politician with an agenda.

I'll be honest. I voted yes on public vote for loo and BRT as well as the east side bridge. I believe all Clark County citizens who are registered to vote should have a say in the projects we have to pay for as I do all Multnomah County voters. Does this give the commissioners privileges to make decisions on interstate bridges? No...but it does give them enough backing OF the people and BY the people of Clark County so that when they send the letters, the emails or stand up at those meetings...that they can say without a doubt that they are speaking FOR the people.

just my perspective

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 12, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

Nails...we're here for you...even if it is only in words, but you know we're thinkin' about you. Safe trip, nails.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - I'd say just about every fan of BritComs has seen Are You Being Served? My wife and sons knew whole scripts, and one had Mr. Humphries down pat - dramatic pause for innuendo and all.

My favorite was the Wooster and Jeeves series. Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie were possibly the greatest comedy team of all time. (And I've always considered P.G. Wodehouse as being there with Mark Twain as being a great storyteller.)

roger — November 13, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the Day ***

Where Madonis F...up last the C-Tran meeting in addition to all his whining.

At some point of his whining he called out Stuart mentioning a "private" phone conversation between him and Stuart prior to his re-election. That infuriated Stuart and pay back is a "B" as they say... learn your lesson whining boy and soon.

Here is the deal, don't come here whining that you have a "mandate" from the voters against light rail. Especially when only people outside of the city of Vancouver, a whole 62% of 37% of ALL the citizens of Clark County BOTHERED to vote. That is not a mandate, that is a fart with no stink, a girly fart, a whining boy fart.

Whining boy Madonis requested "consideration". Okay, he got consideration and did not mean squat because it wasn't a mandate.

Why is that so hard to understand, is beyond me. Whining boy Madonis is wasting some serious time and County resources, as I noted yesterday. He is not contributing to any type of progress. Please stop blowing air up his a$$. Your are bound to get a big mess on your face....

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Second Bark of the Day ***

The Sheriff makes no case at all. Although I agree that the County budget ought to be better spent in all services, the first thing to do is by first shining the light on the numbers, this Sheriff has chosen to keep his numbers in hiding. To another dog with that bone. You owe us 10.5 million dollars. Where are you going to get the money to pay back the citizens of Clark County? Are you avoiding the responsibility and have the nerve to ask for more money?

How many neighborhood associations have you organized on helping the Department in the policing function, or do you want a high cost monopoly in place?

Safety is primarily a personal responsibility because you do a lousy job. You need crime to maintain your employment, to justify your existence and live a cozy life at our expense.

I say no money until you "update your skills" as a the person responsible to handle crime in the community and come up with cre4ative ideas not the same old repression.

I say, sell your tank(s). We are citizens, we have no tanks to speak of.

I say get off your high horse and live within your means like we all struggle to do.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I have an old college friend in NYC who regularly schedules platonic "cuddle dates" with a woman he knows. Both are busy professionals. Both are single and not in a relationship. Both miss the benefits of non-sexual, human touch and claim this arrangement has been beneficial. The concept seemed interesting and I applauded them both for being so creative in meeting this mutual need.

Imagine my surprise today to read an Oregonian article about a Portland professional cuddler. This story actually found the journalist in a walk through his neighborhood. Life offers infinite surprises and gifts and this story is one of them:

manthou — November 13, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Socialist candidate Kshama Sawant has taken a narrow lead over 16 year incumbent Richard Conlin in the Seattle City Council race.

A commenter recommends that she take it easy, rather than going in and throwing "molotov cocktails" of change. Hmmmm. David Madore could benefit from that advice, albeit a little too late now.

Fascinating politics in Seattle, well worth watching:

manthou — November 13, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to change the subject, but all of you need to check out this microwave test.
If you use a microwave for your food preparation, beware..

Microwave Test – an eye opener

ELISI — November 13, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dennis Snook comments, "Hopefully when this is up and running those that violate others property will focus their break-ins and other violence on these business."

And that, boys and girls, is a prime example of 'non sequitur.' Where do these people come from? Sheesh.

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 9:18 a.m

It's also a prime example of how NOT to write. His comprehension of English grammar is appalling.

luvithere — November 13, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not buying the nuke test, ELISI.

Pure water is H2O (and doesn't exist in nature). The only "change" that can possibly be made is to decouple the hydrogen/oxygen bond. Though there's no way a microwave can do that, I
wouldn't suggest it with an ignition source present. The explosions at the Fukushima power plants is a perfect example of what can result.

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, and-
Boiling water doesn't "purify" it. Sure, it will kill most of the bugs, but the salts still remain in the water. Now, if you condense the steam coming off, you'll have something closer to pure water.

Pure (very pure) water is called "hungry water." Dihydrogen monoxide doesn't want to be pure. There's an "ion thing" that goes on with it. Very pure water is seeking contamination. It want's to be full of stuff.

Unless microwaving it converted the salts in the water into some kind of poison (which it doesn't) there's no way a plant would know the difference between water boiled on a stove or in a microwave. Boiled long enough, however - that is boiling a good portion of it away - will leave the water with a higher concentration of contaminants.

And before you ask, I've been employed in both process water treatment and the corrosion resistance industry. ☺

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Then why would the plant watered with the one from the microwave die and the other didn't?

Would be a good experiment to do at home for one to see for themselves.

ELISI — November 13, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI and DRIFT, mind if I put in my two cents, here???

ELISI, when you grow your vegetable starts from seed, occasionally there's a dieback of one or two plants in a flat and could be caused by watering routines...either too much or not enough. The same goes for light needs as well as infestations or even viral conditions in the soil. If the student had tried two separate flats of individual plants...each watered separately...

it would have been a better argument. question for you... did you actually work in the set up and processing of the water treatment units at a treatment plant or was it for your own personal purification system???

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal more comment then I'm outta here...

You might be asking "how could that be possible that an infestation or virus could kill one plant and not the other???" My answer...some people fail to clean and sterilize their used plant pots before starting over.

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""Here is the deal, don't come here whining that you have a "mandate" from the voters against light rail. Especially when only people outside of the city of Vancouver, a whole 62% of 37% of ALL the citizens of Clark County BOTHERED to vote."""

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.

Do you know how ridiculous your statement sounds?

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: goldie and Cap'n Drift are right. There are so many variables that have nothing to do with the microwaved water factor that could account for the one plant dying. Did this little girl control for all those possible in her experiment? The article does not say, so I look at it suspiciously as another possible "rile up the masses" media trap. We all are becoming a nation of skeptics, or we should be, given what is thrown at us daily.

That said, I avoid microwaved food or standing in front of one while it is running just because I know so very little about the darned things. I have a friend who lets her food sit for a couple of minutes after being "nuked" because she says it allows its molecules to "realign", whatever that means. Lord.

manthou — November 13, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Actually I might have misspoke, gold. It wasn't process water, but plant water. And not that kind of plant.

Years ago I was the Mechanical Maintenance Supervisor at Nye Regional Medical Center in Tonopah, Nevada. It's a rather small rural hospital. I'm guessing many here have driven past it.

You might ask how "mechanical" and "water" are related? Think hot and cold running water. The heating and cooling are done with water through what's called "closed loops." A closed loop is just as you might imagine; piping with hot or cold water running through the facility. The cold part requires a chiller and cooling towers; the hot, boilers. That's a lot of water. If things aren't kept in equilibrium the water will "eat" the equipment.

There hadn't been a water treatment program (or any maintenance, it seemed) for years before my arrival. Both boilers were down. One had had a stack fire, the other had controller issues. Portions of the closed loops, along with heat exchangers, had plugged up with deposits. It was a mess.

I did some schooling on my own, and the hospital paid for some. When I left, a complete maintenance program (along with the water) was in place and the mechanical plant was in pretty good shape.

I don't do anything with the water for my plants, but let it sit for four days before using it and aerate by pouring it back and forth between containers. Frankly, I'm not real sure why I have such luck with them. The water out of the tap runs a pH of around 8.2. Cannabis plants prefer around 6.8.

But then again, my plants are only around two feet tall, with a two feet diameter canapy, at the time of harvest. It doesn't take much for my needs so I'm not growing for maximum production (shrug).

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift, Golden, manthou,

That is why I said.."Would be a good experiment to do at home for one to see for themselves.:

ELISI — November 13, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's too hard to tell for sure in the photo, but to me the dying plant looked to have been over watered.

Not to nitpick...okay, fine, maybe I'm doing just that -
I just checked the comments over on that article I refered to about the pot shops. Maybe I think of the comments about like some do advisory ballot questions? You know, like checking the pulse of the citizenry?

Anyway, there's a Charles guy speaking somewhat on the favorable side. My issue is he obviously doesn't know what he's speaking about. For me, credibility is an important factor in any debate. Charles bums me. The 502 stores aren't "dispensaries." They will be retail stores open to -anyone- over 21 years of age.

Sheesh ☺

I should get off my butt and go do something. It's starting to hurt; my butt ;^)

Drift — November 13, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't you get the message GD?

In order to be in contempt with progress you have to have a mandate. YOU DON'T!

You have hillbillies in the yahoos which I was part of for 15 years that barely can read and write and of course they don't want to pay for anything.

You have city dwellers that are more educated and they all voted for light rail.

If you want to be heard you have better get the votes of the whole citizenry either way.

What part of "voluntary voting" don't you get that is a scam for controlling people's destiny?

Have some beer buddy, watch the game, screw voting. Can you believe I have to read a several pages of a voter informational document when I have the attention span of a koala, can not comprehend what I read, let alone what I write?

Rape me!!!!!!!!! Mr. Politician, Rape me...I am so dumb that I can not be bothered to vote.

Don't be taking my guns and beer though...oh no!!!!!!!!!!

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes I hate agreeing with you puppy. But you are right. People sit on their butts and don't educate themselves about what is going on around them. They think that someone else will take care of it for them. Everything in that overly long voters pamphlet had been in the news weeks before the vote. There was no reason to not know what was going on. Then they don't vote anyway. Somebody else will do it for them. Pathetic.

timerick — November 13, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Why in the world would you ever think that the Sheriff should be appointed and not elected? You have absolutely missed the mark. Since the Sheriff is an elected official put into office by the people, that means that he is accountable to the people and will look out for their best interest. Why do you think VPD ALWAYS has so many problems? It's because he is appointed by crony politicians. The VPD Chief actually has no power and does not run the department. The city counsel does. If he does not kiss their behind, they simply fire him and get someone else. During this latest interview process. 3 out of the 5 finalist withdrew their application after being interviewed by the disfunctional city counsel. Why is that? Because anyone with experience can see that the only want a puppet. Nothing ever improves with VPD due to this and it never will. The Sheriff does not answer to a counsel. He is elected and works for the people. As far as the funding for the SO - they have lost close to 30 positions due to the budget over the last several years. It's becoming dangerous for the Deputies and for the public.

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice Puppy - Please provide details as to where the Sheriff should cut spending and provide specifics of what you are talking about.

"Safety is primarily a personal responsibility because you do a lousy job."

Please explain in detail why you have this view that they do a lousy job. Thanks-

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hear you timerick...that makes two of us...

Woosker you are so out there in dictatorship land that is not funny. In a dictatorship, the military calls the shots. In a democracy "supposedly", the citizens.

Well, I am a citizen. I want Sheriff Lucas to dump all his purchase orders, accounts payables and signed contracts for me and others to "evaluate" and see where he is spending the money and if the money he wants is justified. I am his boss right? Or I am his boss only every so years when the mess has already happened and I am 10.5 mil in the hole, just to make a case...

What did he do? He locked the door and toll Madonis to shut up and don't be inquiring...Madonis is a citizen too...

So, who are you fooling. On top of that, the Vancouver Police chief, the new one gets paid $150k a year? Are you freaking kidding me? He must be in Benton's league I guess.

Anyway, to everybody, read the citizens and international police association, recomendations posted in the Columbian today. Very telling...

So, the Sheriff elected position is a joke unless the citizens can have an ongoing say on his management skills, not every so many years by firing him or re-electing him.

When you see and obese person, he is not well put together, his mouth is runnign the show, not his brain. That is what I have to say. An intelligent person has total control of body and mind and that includes food intake and exercise.

That is who we want leading...a top notch individual in many aspects, not bench warmers at 150k a year!

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I am for citizen policing first and foremost. What does that mean?

Everybody knows who lives around them and organizes to protect themselves against criminals. They are connected via phone and email 24/7. Any suspicious vehicle gets recorded and license plate written in addition to be watched for the duration. One phone call and the neighborhood can have all its accessed closed so nobody can get out. Foot patrols and dogs on the beat.

End of the problem.

What we are doing is a band aid approach, throwing money to a non solution. If you don't have employment, crime will skyrocket. since there is no solution to the employment problem, the citizens need to assume the primary responsibility, their homes, families and businesses. It takes a village...

Nobody organizes the citizenry because that is dangerous for the status quo, therefore the single family home, nobody talks to anybody and mind their own business. It works like a clock to keep on sucking money from taxpayers for an impossible solution. The first line of defense is at home and your block.

Get it together! It can be done! You should know everyone in your block and in 4 blocks around you. Start with the block party and a plan against crooks.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ops I meant accesses.

I have sat at the court house at arraigning time for several days doing my own research and watch the types of crimes being processed. Mostly young people, drug users, burglars, DUIs, etc.

It takes a village to guide this kids. All the ones at home watching TV have garages full of tools and could be teaching youngsters to build things and get them out of takes a village, a different mentality, getting to know one another, etc.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Where are the specifics nice puppy? The SO budget has to be approved by the commisioners and is public record if you wanted to go down and take a look. Of course citizens have a say if they want to keep him. It's called an election. You provide no specifics about what you are upset about. It appears you have a general feeling of anger towards the SO with no facts to back it up. Pure emotions rule your post. . You give no details except that you think they make too much money and the Sheriff's should stop eating so much. Any actual facts/specifics you can provide?

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What part of purchaser orders, accounts payables and contract did you miss woosker? That is not a budget.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I want to know it all, shine the light, so I can have an informed opinion if the guy is a good "manager" of the taxpayer resources. We need to shine the light in anything that has to do with our monies. As simple as that!

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nice puppy. I responded before I read your follow up posts. I agree with you about safety starting at home. 100% - could not agree more. I can understand that burglars, DUI's etc, may seem trivial but not so much if you are the victim of these crimes. Without law enforcement, criminals would run wild. Just imagine a county that deputies did not respond to these calls. It would be a free for all for the crooks.

Above is the link to the budget general amounts spent. The office of the Washington State Auditor conducts an audit of all expenses every year. The Sheriff is not free to just spend how he wants. I think your perception of the budget may be off.

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker, long time!

Just sitting here at the airport waiting to board, being bored. Thought I'd check you guys out. As for Vegas, not a big fan. The people are rude, they drive with their heads up their butts and everybody is in a big damn hurry to get nowhere fast. It's too dry and you are always getting shocked. 70 degrees in November is weird. All in all, I'll stick with the great Pacific Northwest.

hawkeye — November 13, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You have city dwellers that are more educated and they all voted for light rail.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.

You think so? Maybe you should check out the numbers before making such a bold and false statement, pups. Your post at 12:32 pm is rambling, although I agree with you that EVERYONE should vote but that's not going to happen any time instead, you have the choice of the educated who took the time to do their research and vote...and you're stuck with the result whether you like it or not.

Too bad you couldn't vote in Clark County, Pups...all you are is an outsider from Po'land...looking in, throwing in your insults, your banter, your "ANTI everything for Clark County...and a few good points...VERY few. Why is it you never complain about anything Portland...where you CLAIM you live, even though you have had issues lately with that as well???

Just wonderin'

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Hawkeye! Are you going to Vegas for business or pleasure? I have not been there for nearly 5 years. I hear they have built a lot in that time. You taking in any shows? Have a great time!

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Woosker!!! Long time no see!!!

goldenoldie — November 13, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk - Actually sounds like you are coming home. Have a safe flight. The weather here is pretty nice. Partly clear.

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Golden! Nice to see all of you! I hope you are doing great.

Woosker — November 13, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, Cap'n,

If you read to the last comment to that article, someone did duplicate the young lady's experiment, and notes that there was no difference in growth (if anything, the nuked water plant appeared to have done just a bit better. He was able to duplicate her results, however. In one test he didn't allow the microwaved water to cool down sufficiently, and watered the nuke plants with hot water. (Presumably, the boiled water was allowed to return to around room temperature.) When this was done, they suffered the same fate as her nuke plants.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.

We had an election, and there were positions to fill and some ballot measures to select Yes or No on.

100% of the registered voters received a ballot in the mail. 37% of registered voters actually voted (actually 37.46%). That means 63% (62.54%) made a conscious decision that that the elections and the issues were of no importance to them - que sera, sera. Consequently, the ONLY opinions that matter are those of the 37% who took the time to say what they wanted.

Your 63% supporting the LRT advisory vote is a tad bit low. Today's tally shows 68.4% voted in favor of it. Why at all significant? Perhaps because that's something called a supermajority - recognized across our many governments in this country as indicating the overwhelming support required to make critical policy decisions where a simple majority isn't considered adequate. A mandate is defined as a command or authorization to act in a particular way given by the electorate to its representative. A supermajority vote is a clear mandate - from the only people who's opinions matter.

Your argument can be used to say that the results of any election with less than 100% voter turnout are suspect. Wrong. The ONLY opinions that matter are those of the ones who met their civic responsibility and voted.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker - Nice try, but puppy doesn't respond to the patiently repeated "prove it" approach.

Welcome back.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I disagree Roger. Voluntary voting is a scam!

That is the reason why we have a country a hundred years behind the times. We could be years ahead of years behind concerning "Intelligent democracy". We have a democracy for dummies.

Internet for all and voting in a snap of a second in relevant issues.

You guys live in a backward planet according to me!

GD, lay off your BS. I own property, I will state my piece whether you like it or not. You are very, very limited in your thought process. I understand why, you can't help it. People all over own properties in multiple states and care about what happens in those states. There is nothing you can do about it, so lay off your soap box please.

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger,.looks like it's time to get the rolled up newspaper and the flea spray out..

ELISI — November 13, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker welcome back! Been awhile!

ELISI — November 13, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.

"You have hillbillies in the yahoos which I was part of for 15 years that barely can read and write and of course they don't want to pay for anything. You have city dwellers that are more educated and they all voted for light rail."

Children in city schools routinely test lower than those in the outlying areas, and here is no different. This may be an erroneous inference to draw from this, but if children tend to reflect their parents, then I'd say the "more educated" folks actually live out here in the 'Burbs and in the country.

My youngest used to complain all the time because his computer was our "hand me down" and because we didn't buy the internet service with the fastest speeds. There was a disconnect there - We were seeing his need for internet access as for being able to research for school work and to be able to e-mail friends and relatives. He was seeing the internet as a tool for gaming, and fastest was best. The people paying the bill won the argument. Well, the same rationale applies with Vancouver and light rail. We already provide a perfectly adequate bus service - one that will take people just about anywhere they need to go. But some people aren't satisfied - They want bigger and faster. All the cool kids in Portland have it, and we NEED it too. We're Vancouver and we DESERVE it. But you're not paying the bill - All of us are. And recent elections have routinely shown that the 17th and 18th Districts do not share the same vision of the future as the 49th District. But I really really NEED it, and I just have to have it!!! The answer is still No.

Doggie has bought into the soft life; one where he's surrounded with all the amenities. Back in his incarnation as a cat he preached strong self reliance, with the ability to live off the land and survive using one's wits and those tools that were available to him. Must be that the city living caught up with him.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, voting just closed for the Boeing machinists' union. Results expected to be announced about 2100. (Flea scratcher, that's 9 p.m.) No matter what the outcome, it's a good thing they don't consider voluntary voting a scam.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I do agree with Yapper on one thing. I live here in Clark, but work and pay taxes in Oregon. I figure that more than entitles me to get on The Oregonian's website and do my best to help encourage the State Legislature to recognize the fiscal irresponsibility - no, insanity is an even better term - of trying to pursue building the CRC without Washington's involvement.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The latest Columbian poll: the majority of us don't FB, Tweet, or Instagram:

roger: I assume you have seen the WW article today. The CRC will be a miracle if it succeeds. Everyone can stop fighting about this issue and maybe Clark County Commissioners can get back to work on matters-of-consequence, problems within their control.

I sent them all a letter today, something they should ALL agree on. Let's see where it stands on their "to do" list. If any of the three respond, I will share and celebrate their moving in a cooperative direction.

manthou — November 13, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Losing the election made you that ornery?

Go bong up! You really need it....

I warn you may change you...and bust that box open....perhaps setting you free....


nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pooper advocating smoking weed? Still another change.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The only thing new WW's article contains is in the letter itself, where Garrett says the I205 will not be tolled. I suspect Clackamas County is a bit perturbed with his non-answer to their concerns.

What I found more interesting was the article that says Amanda Fritz got her $250K for Janus to fight child prostitution. The Oregonian's article that I read earlier today made it sound like Hales wasn't going to cough the entire amount up. Without going into rightness of her recent issues (this and the homeless camp), this lady seems to do a good job of getting what she wants.

roger — November 13, 2013 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, dear. Don Benton is threatening a libel lawsuit against citizen commenter, Ed Barnes.

I hope he has about $100,000 in his bank account to pay for an experienced attorney, not just one of his multiple lawyer cronies.

You helped pass the Anti-Slapp law, Don. You also amended and passed the Uniform Correction or Clarification of Defamation Act this summer, buddy, which makes it harder to go after newspapers, like your favorite. You appear to be too dense to have done your homework both times.

How many times has he threatened legal action against someone who held a negative opinion of him?

He must be very touchy about his qualifications for the job.

For good reason.

manthou — November 13, 2013 at 10:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Benton threatening to sue someone for claiming he was unqualified for his job reminds me of the Southern Senator, who a few years ago, was voted the dumbest member of the US Senate by Senate staffers. That designation didn't get much attention until he made their point by calling what turned out to be a very well attended press conference to announce he wasn't really the dumbest member of the US Senate.

JohnK — November 14, 2013 at 5:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The machinists' union rejected the Boeing contract with a 67% against vote. Time for the hand wringing to begin.

The main points of contention appears to have been Boeing wanting to change from a pension plan over to a shared contribution 401(k) retirement account, and wanting an increased employee cost with the health plan. With a poorly regulated Wall Street, I'm not a fan of 401(k)s as the mainstay of a retirement package; it puts the responsibility on the employee, who will often not have the knowledge to needed to watch the market and move savings to the appropriate investment strategy. (I saw nothing to say this would be an employer managed plan, and those aren't all that common.) While pension plans also rely on market investments, the company has the responsibility to meet fixed retirement payments and should consequently take steps to ensure appropriate investment strategies are followed. (I suspect we'll start seeing Editor Lou arguing the other side any day, so I'm getting my two cents out there now.)

Many of the union members opposed to the plan were calling the Boeing contract an attempt to break the union. I'm very pro-union, but this one has me scratching my head. The average yearly wages for union members was reported as $85K - pretty good, I'd say. The health plan had a very low deductible and reasonable cost share payments; without digging too deeply, I thought it fell into that "cadillac plan" category. There was a restructuring of the pay increase scale, so workers would take quite a bit longer to reach the top end. (Personally, I thought 6 years to top pay was too quick, and agreed with Boeing here.) Anyhow, we may be seeing a repeat of the attack on the UAW in years past. Everyone lost there.

Anyhow, this should be interesting to follow.

roger — November 14, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 13, 2013 at 5:50 p.m.

hehehehe....lolololol....funny, you telling ME to lay off MY BS!!! stated a couple months back that you USED to own property in Clark County, Woodland included. You are so full of BS...half the time you don't remember your lies, bubba! Nice try, though. You can make your empty statements all you like, pups...nobody's stoppin' ya...not even the Columbian. Missin' the piddle papers agin'???.......8)) appears the fleas are at infestation level...8))

goldenoldie — November 14, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 13, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.

That swingin' door is beginning to hit someone on their backside.

goldenoldie — November 14, 2013 at 6 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...or should I say...


goldenoldie — November 14, 2013 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like Benton is back to his blustering cry baby self again. I'm sure Madore is behind the whole thing and when it comes time for him to step up and defend Benton, he'll just back away and say he's on his own. The guy's a good instigator but watch your back.

Roger, Boeing tries this everytime their contract comes up. All they want to do is take away and threaten to move production. Then they turn around and cry they have no money and want tax breaks to stay there. I know another company (locally) that does the same exact thing.

hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 14, 2013 at 5:01 a.m.,

I was also a bit amused to read that article. Both Pres Bush2 and Obama have been called incompetent by many. Attorneys General Ashcroft, Gonzales and Holder all receive(d) tremendous amounts of criticism. And this list can continue forever.

I'm thinking Benton is the designated "negative attention magnet" for the State Senate. We're supposed to focus in on this issue for the next week or two, while the Senate quietly agrees to a State Transportation plan that includes to 10-12 cents phased in gas tax that so many people spoke out against at their recent town hall meetings across the state.

We'll see.

roger — November 14, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OH MY GOD!!! Benton threatening to sue someone for defamation of character??? What a hoot. You have to have 'character' first. Not be one. LOL If he had it he would not have taken the job in the first place. He's delusional about his abilities and he has proven this. Like I said I think he is just another slime-ball elected politician. This is my opinion, in print, and mine alone. So sue me, if you like, but beware. All the skeletons in your closet will come out to haunt you.

JohnCasey — November 14, 2013 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry I said character. I mean libel. This will include his lack of character.

More coffee.

JohnCasey — November 14, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger: I'll bet a number of the more rabid Leavitt critics, after reading Benton's rationale for suing critics, are calling their attorney's and/or booking flights to the Cayman Islands. If Benson is right, Leavitt could put half the Board of Clark Co Republicans into bankruptcy. :-)

JohnK — November 14, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Woodland? Huh? You need to lay off your envy ride ya bungalow dweller and get your story straight. There are people above your level in the pyramid and have a more metropolitan view than your pioneer ways. it really does not matter because you don't control my life nor I control your, so move on now...

I was reading a post of your yesterday and your wind vane nickname it does you good. Nothing wrong with that when new information comes in and your single neuron does the attempt to articulate an opinion. The part that does not reconcile with my principles is that you don't give Leavitt the same courtesy when he "corrected" his mind. I remember sr. Bush when he my lips, no new taxes....right before the election at that time...well...what history told us? Kind of funny that the republicans do not attempt to public hang him...


About the Benton lawsuit.... I am supporting Ed Barnes all the way. He is right and Benton needs to resign. His lawsuit is a clear sign that the cronyism beneficiary is backed into a corner. He has no where to go. He has no credibility nor credentials, therefore he will always be inefficient and absolutely not trust worthy. You don't go about life cheating the rules that apply to all of us or having your puppet masters change the requirements to match your lack of skills. That steps on all the principles of fair play, honesty, integrity, ethics and decency.

We will pack that Commissioners meeting again and show our contempt against this blatant cronyism that Madonis, Mielke and Benton conspired to do. They are destroying a community with shady practices therefore the outspoken opposition.

Now we will have lawsuits galore when we ought to be creating jobs and make Vancouver a first class town.

The cost of waste of time is tremendous. We ought to be "creating opportunities" not fighting crooks day in and day out.

I blame mostly the ones that blow air up Madonis a$$ and make his head get so big and ugly that he feels the entitlement to destroy a community. He needs to go, the three stooges need to go. The community has a valid claim of not putting up with cronyism. It is their right to fight it any which way they can.

In a way it shows how inefficient is government in exterminating this cancer that has invaded our community.

To the three stooges...the only thing you are doing is making the people angry. Angry people do stupid things.... Many times you end up on the receiving end of stupidity...

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and the swingin' doggy door must've just hit your head!!!


Bungalow dweller??? Only in your mind, bubba...only in your mind.

Pioneer ways??? You ever hear of the NEW Pioneers, bubba? Hate to break it to ya, but we're IN the metropolitan area and this movement is ever growing. Many of us are actually administrators, blue-collar and white-collar workers, union members, business owners, authors, artists, MASS TRANSIT executives, entrepeneurs and politicians....AND we're voters who actually cast our ballots each year!!! You name the'll find a new pioneer amongst them. Yeah...I'll take the pioneer ways before I even THINK of stepping near the ways of an unpaper-trained, fleabittin, worm infested, wanderin' pup any day! At least when the SHTF...WE the NEW PIONEERS will have the ability to pick up where we left off and can survive ANYTHING and WE are the inventors of the future. You go ahead and remain in the past with your loo choo choos and skyscrapers filled with the unknowing!!! Maybe you can run your amoebic meritocracy in the flop house you're stayin' in THIS week...or is it your momma's basement???

goldenoldie — November 14, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hahahahahah GD, easy on your meds....or lack of them....something is wrong, that one neuron is going wild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Your ignorance shines today, pups. So you'd better keep laughin'. You're going to need it.

goldenoldie — November 14, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Honestly GD, I had this "visual" of you stuck on the doggie door while I was ready to play on the yard chasing the ball. You tried and tried the get your pompous behind free and clear but we had to call the fire department...

They ignored the call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahahahahahah Sorry GD, I little less biscuits next time....this puppy has too much energy for your butt dragging single neuron....heheheheh

Move on dear...only if you can.... ;)

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I was going to ask you what your thoughts were on the Boeing contract rejection. This seems to be a futile fight that, indeed, will be a lose/lose.

JohnCasey: My fantasy is to fill the next BOCC hearing with hundreds of people who go to the mic to say one thing to Madore and Mielke next Tuesday: You gifted the DES Director job to a politician friend who is not qualified for it.

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There are forms of mange that causes brain tumors (demodectic mange) maybe that is the cause of his memory loss.

ELISI — November 14, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Errrrrrr Elisi, I have never mentioned Woodland, ever! So you may want to check your "neuron" as well....

Now two big butts stuck on the doggie door, when I am going to get to play?

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr Obama has directed Insurance Companies to allow folks to keep there old Health Plans..That will be a huge boost for those Dems up for relection for sure. What else could he do I suppose...More people have lost their coverage than have signed up by ten fold. Can of worms I tell ya.. And this from just a little nobody in Vantucky who knew the way they were going about it just wouldn't work, maybe he should have Consulted me first...Na ...

The big thing is will we be able to renew our old plans at the old rate?? No that wont work either because the price of Obamacare is much more expensive. The Insurance companies have already filed there rate increases and got them.. So the average american still gets screwed... But they get to keep there plan and maybe there doctor..

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Although Mayor Leavitt didn't go nearly as far as hiring an attorney to threaten a constituent with a lawsuit, there are some similarities between Benton's letter and an email reply made earlier this year by the Mayor to someone accusing him of corruption.

Not surprisingly, and with some justification, the Leavitt Haters and RW Bloggers screamed and complained for days over the Mayor's contempt for the Constitution, and for his bullying behavior.

I wonder if they still feel that way.

JohnK — November 14, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seat belts, airbags & fumbles-oh my! I had to chime in here. No doubt the worst press conference given by Obama. Weak beyond belief. He's cost us the House. Extremely disappointed with this president. Look for his numbers to drop further after this. 'It's a this and a that, and you guys know how government doesn't work...' Terrible stuff for this signature health care law. Turning something good into a personal and public disaster. He just won't shut up with his groveling and self deprecation.

The key for republicans is to nominate someone strong with resolve. People will look to that (unfortunately) rather than policy that's benefits American people. Unbelievable press conference. How many times this guy can apologize...he is dooming the dems front and center. Hillary will have to speak like a pit bull with horns to garner respect that's been lost here today.

BTW- Welcome back woosker.

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Health insurance being a "private enterprise" will charge whatever the market will bear, you have no choice what so ever. If the market can not bear a higher price, benefits are cut, deductibles are raised in order to keep and increase the profit margins. That is what you get in a for profit health care system. Keep that in mind. You loose every single time. that is why my recommendation has always been, be as healthy as your income and lifestyle allows that is nutrition and exercise. That is the only way to beat the odds of premature death and/or financial bankruptcy for self and family.

This health care plan is the only solution for a sick society. Yes indeed, a very, very sick society where obesity, vices, sedentarism and mostly working from a computer eating snacks all day produce.


You have always heard from me that I get a bit uneasy when people manhandle our veteran's service without fully understanding what war is. Wat are we fighting for and is it proper to be involved in "their" fight, yes the big money fight that makes us pay the bill and sacrifice sons and daughters, mothers and fathers in many cases.

I would like you to read this article and add it to your brain's library of information if you would please.

We need to wake up people, where is the return on investment I ask.

What have we gained?

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 9:58 am: I missed that press conference, but will catch up ASAP. Your critique of it and the President is brutally scathing. I trust your opinion: it must have been malodorous to the max.

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.

I'm not walking it back, that said, my state of mind is a little on the down side lately. To remember, such the reason Reagan was elected in 1980 was because Carter was deemed ineffectual and weak. (understandably so, given gas lines, the botched hostage rescue, etc.) So bad a Hollywood B actor became a second term prez, who managed to put our social structure on the path it's on today.(FDR no doubt has been steaming in his afterlife ever since).

Obama looks defeated and compromised. The only thing he has going for him is that congress looks much worse. All in all, people are right to see our government as ineffective at the moment (maybe he'll start a war like other past presidents have done to detour attention-I hope not) and Obama seemed to deepen this thought today. His lack of leadership in this area is striking. He's had four years to get this rollout going, and he compares it to the problems and costs seat belts & airbags had? Just amazing stuff in my opinion. He refuses to publicly allocate responsibility with red state obstruction and insurance companies liabilities with this roll out and misinformation. This is on our president, and in my opinion he's compromised his agenda with immigration reform and other forthcoming proposed legislation with this ridiculous rollout and his groveling today. He'll get nothing accomplished in his second term, and dems will have to overcome this in 14' & 16'.

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And pup- why are you back to posting ridiculous misinformed conspiracy crap like info wars. Come on man-get real. All it does is negate the real problems and probable solutions (as well as fuel the right wing nuts) we can discuss as a people. Reality is bad enough without ramping it up with the Alex Jones info war garbage. Seriously. {please don't go the Glenn beck route-it's the next step for many.

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 10:42 a.m - Agree completely.

What is with Frank Decker? Does he go onto the Columbian just to be rude to anyone that writes? Glad he didn't make it into office. One less arrogant politician.

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RIP Officer Robert Libke. May God Bless his family. It's tragic when we lose one of our own - to be a murdered volunteer is very heartbreaking. His wife is pregnant and now will have to raise this child without ever knowing his father. His funeral is at 1:00 today.

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.

Hey woosk. So good to have you back. I've always thought you're the best when it comes to representing a right wing viewpoint when it comes to sensible and rational well intended thought.

With regards to Decker. He just doesn't have what it takes between his shoulders for articulating substantive thought. (hope I don't get sued for that!:)

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome back, Woosker: Decker lost with the widest margin of all the Vancouver City Council candidates for good reasons, one of which you mention.

Agree with your heartfelt thoughts on Officer Libke today. Can't express them any better.

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: The ACA has taken away citizens' right to have a very crappy insurance plan or none at all.

Mandating anything is risky political business in this country, now more than ever.

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thak you for the kind words Nailingit. That means a lot. :) I was just reading that article about Benton wanting to file a lawsuit. That seems so weak to me.The way Benton was appointed to that position is offensive. If he can't stand the heat, he should not be in public office. Madore has no clue what he is doing. I mean who in their right mind gets in a fight with the humane society? Ugh. It's ugly.

Thank you Manthou. Nice to see you too! I didn't know he lost with the largest margin but I can certainly understand that. Anyone that doesn't agree with him is an idiot. People we elect are obligated to serve everyone, not just those that agree with them.

Regarding Lucas - I hope he turns up the fire on the Commissioners.

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Easy does it Nail. We have got to put everything in the blender to come up with a good Salsa!

About Decker....

The guy had one right idea, that was to bring tech jobs to Clark County as the engine of growth. Think about it. An IT guy makes if he is contracting in excess of 100k a year. Let's take the Nike Campus idea and create infrastructure to house brain factories around Lacamas and Vancouver lakes. Al the subsidiary industry and businesses that they could support is astounding. But you need to have "culture", like theater, music, coffee shops, in other words ambiance, a happening place.

He made the fatal mistake to associate himself with Madore. MAdore doesn't know anything of that he is a "brute geek". His mind does not expand beyond an invention adn a dictatorship run type of company. The hinders "creativity". For creativity to thrive you have to let it run its course free.

Madore is a brain washed evangelical. He doesn't want tolls because then his brainwashed parishioners won't be tithing much, that is the income they rely on to finance these mega walmart type of churches. That is how they make their money.

So Decker got flushed for being a dummy. Being associated with Madore is the kiss of death. That guy is on his way out. The community hates him. This community doesn't like people that bend the rules to get ahead. Thank God they know the difference between honesty and dishonesty. The worst part is that this guy continues on by having some idiots blowing on his a$$ day in and day out to the point that he believes his snake oil crap. He could not care less what the voters think. He is for himself only. You will see. As soon as the going gets tough and it will, and it will get ugly, he will pack his $hit and leave just like he did in California.

I am counting the days. He has become " personae non gratae" in the community.

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the day ***

Church money is play free money!

You think about that for a minute and everything will make sense.....

You can send the parishioners to work in Portland, make the big bucks and have the govirment (LOL) steal the tithing money on the way back...oh no!!!!!!!!! We want all that tax free money, yes indeed... I guarantee, get er dun!

No tolls dot com!


nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou- The ACA has taken away citizens rights to have crapy Insurance....Or None at all. Can you explain a little more in depth.. Would love to get ones take not in the Business.. The debate is health Insurance a right or privelage.

Two Blue states Orgeon and Washington have spent hundreds of millions to sign up very few. There are "Off the Shelf" programs designed for just these types of prgrams that need very little after purchase tweaking that could have been used for a few million each with Tech support from Oracle.. But what did most of the states and the feds do, they went outside and tried to re invent the wheel. The feds actually bent the wheel jsut before the rollout requiring personal information entered..I think Oregon has signed up 5-10 folks and Wa 6-7 K...The whole system centered on the young and healthy participating at 80%.. We all know as parents that our kids cell phone bill is more important than health care to them..There weren't going to trade that cell phone in for Health Ins... There have been sevral proposals from the Rep that have gone nowhere until now.. Why can't we buy health insurance accross state lines. That would save me and my wife over $480 a mo. Now what would I do with some extra samoles..almost five hundy a month. Geez, let me count the ways. Another thing Congress should not be exempted from these plans as well. I could go on but have to go for now. One thing I applaud the President for is Standing up and saying hey , it's brokje and now lets get it fixed. We will never have evryone in this country covered who are here legally without transforming the entire health care system. Time to get the politicians out of healthcare and have the professionals come up with a better solution....I've been listening to Monica Wehby pediatric neurosurgeon who is challenging Merkley for Oregon senate seat and she has some very good ideas obviously about healthcare reform which make sense. Mr Merkley is so out of touch with reality. "I had no idea" That is what most of the Dems are saying.. She has no real political background, is refreshing and bright and articulate.. Were now seeing folks like Pelosi and other top Dems saying they didn't know as well...There blaming the President.. They were told in 2010 what the fatal flaws would be. The actuarials didn't lie.. You can't bring into the market place unhealthy people without having to charge the healthy people more.

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 11:14 a.m.

Could not agree more. The saving grace for Dems in 16' will be if the ACA has been up and running smoothly for a couple of years. With the forces working against this, to include insurance companies, red state obstruction and a media that continues to focus on side issues, (not to mention the ongoing negative campaigns of partisan billionaires such as the Koch bros.) I'm wondering if it's possible. How soon republicans forget this is based on the their idea of the individual mandate, and modeled from the successful template of a Mass. republican governor they chose to represent them as a presidential nominee. The ACA, if allowed to operate such as in Kentucky, is proving to be a successful alternative to our once broken-getting fixed health care system.

Obama is allowing republicans to frame this debate. I hate to say it, but another govt. shutdown might be a good thing. It would take a portion of GOP constituency who are focused on this latest shiny object and bring about once again what this republican party stands for.

It'd be great if republicans had a viable alternative, but they don't. Just bandied about "ideas" that do nothing to address the uninsured and those with pre-existing conditions.

Obama needs to be less pragmatic, and start showing emotional resolve, if he believes it or not, not only for the good of the party, but the future well being of the American people. Appointing SCOTUS in the next term will be huge.

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I imagine people will be happy with having insurance that provides better coverage, once this sorts out. If we had passed a single payer system, like I wanted (no one consults me, imagine that), we would not be in this pickle. Medicare for all. How hard is that?

Woosker: I think Sheriff Lucas will be putting the heat on hot. I am glad for it, too. I listened to the Commissioners Board time audio yesterday and, toward the end, Mielke started to disparage the sheriff and said something like, Doesn't he appreciate his new 1.5 million dollar computer system? I think that system is a tie-in license with Portland's, saving us the hassle of owning our own. I guess Portland is good for some things, according to Mielke. I just don't think he is going to survive a showdown with Garry Lucas well. :)

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I don't think the dems will have to worry that much. The tea party types will dissuade lots of us from voting for them. I lean a little right but I don't think I could vote for a tea party person. We have extreme people on both sides and I do believe the voters are tired of it. They want to see something good happen for America not what has been going on. We need balance and you can't balance 3 on a balance board.

timerick — November 14, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I can tell you that I don't think Lucas has even barely got started. The computer system is a regional system that allows multiple agencies to pull wanted people, etc from other states. It's pretty much a no brainer and keeping up with the times for fighting crime. Lucas has kept quiet for many years as the county went through financial troubles. When a showdown occurs with Lucas vs. M&M;, they will lose and lose big. I'm looking forward to watching it. It's pretty pathetic that M&M; waived the park fees and then want the Deputies to do more patrol since the unwanted trouble makers now enter. The families, etc now are not frequenting the parks as much - while more of the troublemakers are. We have gone from low park fees from people who want to visit and have a safe clean place to go to no park fees and now have a bunch of drunk troublemakers that make the need for more Deputies necessary - thus taking them away from the people who are already only 50% likely to get a response when 911 is called. Pathetic. I lean right and I can tell you the M&M; boys are a joke. Madore is an idiot and Mielke is his puppet. No respect for either of them.

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Church money is play free money!

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

Let me add to that--- so is insurance money! Ever have to pay taxes on insurance money? NOPE. It's all free money to the insurance companies, biggest scam EVER.

hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk - What do you mean it's free money to the insurance companies? Are you speaking of the premiums paid by the policyholders or the claim payouts by the carriers?

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 14, 2013 at 1:29 p.m.

It's funny you say that, that's exactly what I told Madore was going to happen. All he said was, I don't think so, we'll have volunteers to help out. WRONG!

hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker, BOTH. You ever see a tax on your premium? Mine don't show any. And if there's a claim, you don't have to pay a tax on that either.

hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now your OK with a Government shutdown. The Liberals only want it both ways when it benefits them to do so...Now The President can change the ACA just by saying so , without a vote of Congress or SCOTUS.. He is now saying you all can keep those plans that don't meet the 71 points of the new ACA that was voted in by SCOTUS as constitutional. He can do what he wants because he is the president. Really he can just say something like that and it's law...My plan through Assurant was already in compliance with the ACA but because of the ACA it went up quite a bit in just one year, 30 some %..why do you think that??? Let me hear your explanation why... Come on, I know you have one... Do you think you should be required to have a health care plan where even though your not having anymore children your required to have Maturnity care provision. It's like buying Collision coverage on your 87 Buick that costs you $200 a year when you wouldn't get any benefit from being "REquired" to have it.

Nov 2009 Obama says "Obama said in his address last week to Congress. "That's why under my plan, individuals will be required to "Carry basic health insurance" -- just as most states require you to carry auto insurance." Many drivers can go without collision insurance if they like. If a hood is dented on the car of someone without the coverage, that person can drive around with a dented hood. But the only kind of health insurance Obama is talking about is collision insurance. If someone's body is a jalopy, he or she still has to get covered...These were not the type of plans now beingrequired under the ACA.. The ACA is unaffordable by the Majority of Americans..That is the biggest outrage today, as well as losing your current doctor... Does everybody neede a caddilac Plan, no I doubt it.. What most people need is the basic health elements according to their age and sex. I'm sure we all agree preventitive care basics are very important for both men and women.
The bottom line what Obama said and proposed back on the stump and when he became President is different from what we have now. It's called slick politics, a huge Bill no one but the Insureres read shame on both Dems and Rep for that and now we have what we have. One rep major proposal is to be able to buy Healthcare accross state lines. If I could buy the same plan in Oregon that Wa is offering I would save almost $500 a month. One problem solved...

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.

My statement about a future possible government shutdown, in context, concerned political optics, and how those optics would play into upcoming elections.

Regarding your 'personal' experience, of course no one can speak to that unless all information was laid on the table, to include subsidies you might qualify for. Allegory's and conjecture are just that.

I hope you can find affordable insurance for you and yours. You might consider dialing up a well qualified insurance agent, have patience & deal with the ACA website, call them by phone, or perhaps take a gander at this website. I hope you can find the best plan for you and your family. Quality insurance is important, especially in these days and times.

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Washington insurance commissioner won’t allow canceled health plans
Washington Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler quickly quashed President Obama’s offer to allow canceled insurance plans to continue through 2014.

“We will not be allowing insurance companies to extend their policies,” Kreidler said in a written statement issued Thursday morning. “I believe this is in the best interest of the health insurance market in Washington."

langenthal — November 14, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker @ 1:29 PM: Don't forget the protracted foot-dragging with the Humane Society contract. I actually believe Madore and Mielke were leaning toward expecting the CC Sheriff Department to take care of the stray animal problem, too.
Anyone who wants to see the cream-of-the-crop FB comments, you need to take the time to peruse the long list on the Benton lawsuit threat against Ed Barnes. Some of them are seriously smart, funny and entertaining. Pour yourself a brew, put up your feet and enjoy the read. It's 5 o'clock somewhere….

manthou — November 14, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer --- Here's some more resources you might check for health insurance info.

Enrollment events are:
Clark County
- Thursday, Nov. 14, 3-6 p.m., Ridgefield Community Library, 210 N. Main Ave., Ridgefield
- Tuesday, Nov. 19, 3-6 p.m., Woodland Community Library, 770 Park St., Woodland
- Wednesday, Nov. 20, 3-6 p.m., Battle Ground Community Library, 1207 SE 8th Way, Battle Ground
- Thursday, Nov. 21, 3-6 p.m., Cascade Park Community Library, 600 NE 136th Ave.

Klickitat County
- Thursday, Nov. 7, 3-6 p.m., Goldendale Community Library, 131 W. Burgen St., Goldendale

Skamania County
- Thursday, Nov. 21, 3-6 p.m., Stevenson Community Library, 120 N.W. Vancouver Ave., Stevenson

The libraries also will host enrollment events in January. For a list of enrollment events in November and January, go to the library district website at

In-person assisters will answer questions about health coverage options and financial help for qualifying consumers through Washington HealthPlanFinder. All health plans offered through Washington HealthPlanFinder meet strict benefit and quality standards and cover essentials, including doctor visits, hospital stays, prescriptions and regular check-ups. A person earning up to $45,000 and a family of four earning up to $94,000 a year may qualify for financial help for premiums and copays. Free and low-cost coverage also is available.

In addition to meeting with in-person assisters, residents can:
- Call 855-WAFINDER (1-855-923-4633) for toll-free customer support, weekdays 7:30 a.m. to 8 p.m. Trained representatives are available to provide assistance in nearly 175 languages.
- Email
- Shop for insurance online by visiting

langenthal — November 14, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Where is GD when you need her? Still Stuck on in the doggie door? hahahahahahahah


nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My computer is on it’s last legs and is doing many strange things. Or more like it isn’t doing. Like linking to other sites. As far as the microwave thing goes, check out the microwave experiment on snopes:

Other than that, the hypocrisy of you people is just stunning. Even though I’m in a lair of Leftists, I will have a little more to say about that shortly. I hope.

kn_dalai — November 14, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, when we were discussing the ACA here a few weeks ago, I threw out some plan costs after rebate for a few different annual income amounts, and also some other costs of living a young (say mid 20s to mid 30s) adult has. My contention was that the plans we have here in Washington State cost too much - that they'll require too much from people who don't have a lot of excess income, and that many will refuse to follow through and buy a plan. Further, that for most the penalty for noncompliance will cost them far less than a plan itself - at least for a year, and possibly much longer.

These are the people that the ACA depends on - the people who rarely go to the doctor, and whose premiums would mainly go to paying for others. Is it possible they've decided they're not going to play? Registration numbers are pathetically low, even when accounting for the online enrollment systems not working at first.
- Maybe they're just putting it off. We've become a last minute society; showing up on time or a few minutes early no longer matters.
- Maybe they're hoping the government will back off and say wait until next year, once we get the bugs ironed out.
- Maybe they've got a job where they figure their employer will have to offer a plan starting in 2015, and that they can ignore everything until then.
- Maybe they figure noncompliance will be widespread enough that the IRS would take forever to catch up with them and collect the penalty.
- Maybe ????

The ACA is going to create a whole new crop of fiscal conservatives who will lean toward Repub candidates. That young adult with a job that pays moderately well is going to have insurance rates of around a couple of hundred per month. He'll look at his married coworker with a couple of kids getting the same coverage for almost nothing after subsidy, and see the inherent unfairness of the plan.

This program is in trouble.

And just like Jimmy Carter, this President is incapable of connecting with the American people to sell his policies. (Let's just hope he doesn't let Eric Holder convince him to start spraying paraquat on the pot fields - that would be just a little too much deja vu.)

roger — November 14, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You people go around talking about “good governance”, but then support house speaker Pelosi and the idea of voting for the ACA so you can find out “what’s in it.” Find out what’s in it. Now you’re surprised by the results? You bet. Then you go around calling others low information and low IQ citizens. Of course. The hypocrisy of you people is just stunning. Ever noticed that? No. I don’t guess so.

kn_dalai — November 14, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 14, 2013 at 8:04 p.m.

Generalize much?

"You People" indeed.


hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 14, 2013 at 9:01 p.m.

“You people” is correct, and I suggest you people finally look at yourselves for the sick hypocrites that you are.

Seperately, Madore is not going to resign. Actually, he’s just getting started. Stuart is toast as a county commissioner next year. Actually, you people are the narcissists that you accuse others of being. While Stuart could easily win the commissioner election from his own district, he hasn’t a chance on a county wide election. I happen to like Stuart. Personally. He’s bright and well spoken. He also showed himself for what he is, politically, with his sell out on the C-tran vote. And Yea, it’s a big deal.

For those of you that watched the Board meeting a couple of days ago. Did you see how Stuart responded to the woman who was upset about the “distillery” in her neighborhood? He expressed his belief in property rights. While that’s all fine and dandy, property rights is not normally a big Democrat issue. Was Stuart trying to rebrand himself for the middle voters? Yea, I sure think so.

kn_dalai — November 14, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Our Insurance agency has two licensed health insurance professionals... Were very much ahead of the curve. That's basically what ive been saying last couple years...
Langenthal thanks we have had several hundred folks already check out all there options.. For about 75% they will be paying a liitle bit more to much more depending on what and the type of plan or no plan they had before ...its already a known that if not enough sign up on the state plans there price will increase.. Wait until you miss a monthly payment ...Young people and healthy are the only key to keeping Obamacare affloat ... Some of you think everyone had poor plans. The ones that were not kept by the state insurers were very small in WA state ... But the new costs are much higher per family... Its called rate shock...its like your auto insurance going up 25% and you had no accidents or tickets .... Go scratch your head.. And then to charge one family more for the same coverage that another family gets for hundreds less...I doubt many here in the basement think that's right or fair...

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 14, 2013 at 10:11 p.m.
".Young people and healthy are the only key to keeping Obamacare afloat"

A dependency upon policy holders who pose less risk is what keeps all insurance companies in the black. It's not a new concept.

JohnK — November 15, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 14, 2013 at 6:30 p.m.

lol, pups...You must've been so excited when your doggy door swung and hit your backside, that you had to try to run back in and out a few times...the last time with your swelled HEAD stuck in it!!!

You can sing and dance all you want about Portland but you'd better read a little bit more beyond Portlandia's MicroBrew atmosphere (most likely causing the laid-back feeling of Portland...8P). As far as that transit system many of the people polled actually have ridden MAX or the buses or even set foot IN Portland??? Gotta ask the question!!! BTW, did you read what it said about Seattle??? Seems to me, the statement shines Seattle on a better light than it does Po'land.

My favorite quote in the comment about Seattle..."It has no reputation for crime, corruption, organized crime, gang warfare, and poverty like many other metropolises do."

Hmm...could it be they were referencing the city on the south side of the Columbia River???

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 14, 2013 at 10:11 p.m

It's true, Madore will never quit unless he's caught (really caught) doing something illegal and then it will be a struggle since he (in his own mind) can do no wrong. As for Stuart, he WILL be re-elected and by a wide margin since there are a large number of voters that see him as the only sane voice on the board. Madore and Meilke will not be re-elected next time, Madore has brought to light Meilke's lack of confidence and inability to think for himself.

As for watching the board meetings, those of us without cable are at a disadvantage. Why don't you see if you can get them to put it on the Dish and Direct TV for "us people".

hawkeye — November 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 15, 2013 at 5:57 a.m.

That's only half the story. Insurance companies traditionally charge higher risk people more. Auto insurance rates increase if you have accidents or speeding tickets. People with DUI convictions pay out the nose for SR22 coverage. If you've got a good driving record your rates are low (relatively speaking, that is).

With health insurance, we're also dealing with medicine as a profit driven business, so cost of service was the main factor. To keep coverage costs low across the board, high users were forced into higher cost coverage or out entirely. To correct this situation, the young and healthy (your safe drivers) are going to pay much more to allow costly users (your accident prone and DUIs) to have affordable rates.

Fairness is a matter of perception. I'll stick with my example of a young adult having to pay higher rates so his married friend with kids can pay next to nothing.

The only way to make this "fair" would have been the single payer "Medicare for all" approach. Speaker Pelosi and friends allowed that $100 million bribe from the health care industry to derail this early in the game.

roger — November 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 14, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.

NAILS...compose yourself. The sky isn't falling yet...

Or is it???

I hope not. We cannot afford a weak head of government. This ACA has crippled his popularity status...and our international credit rating has dropped since he took office (unfortunate for him that it happened during his administration...possibly twice before it's all over). I so hope he gets his (fill in the blank) together and gets issues resolved before there is another government shutdown.

And the stock market??? I have a very uneasy feeling about these recent record highs. Could this be early signs of a sudden market dive in the near future after Christmas??? I hope not.

Oh dither....

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

With Madore's history in business...starting from the ground up...

I'm almost positive he will know how to avoid legal issues while commissioner, but only time will tell.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 15, 2013 at 6:34: Fair points, but the exclusionary or 'bad behavior' penalties associated with auto insurance policies may be acceptable to most Americans when choosing their auto insurance carrier, but it's not acceptable, from either a fiscal or ethical standpoint, when it comes to inclusionary national health care.

It may not be 'fair' to the young and healthy, and I sympathize with a young single individual paying more so a married w/children friend pays less, but there's certainly lots of precedent and 'for the good of society' arguments to support such a practice.

I agree that a single payer-Medicare type approach would be far preferable than the ACA

JohnK — November 15, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the Day ***

Dave killer Bread, you dumb drug addict! You are in trouble again, ruining all you have worked for!

Is that a way to tell us that "money is not where is at"??????????????

I thought so! You could have asked me and I would have saved you a lot of money and agravation plus jail time!

Money per se is the root of all evil! We have got to find a better way...

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: You can watch the Board plus access past meeting videos on your computer at:

JohnK — November 15, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

Why, good morning hawkeye. The board meetings can be viewed on CVTV on your computer. Now how's that for being reponsive to "you people"? :):):):):):):):)

kn_dalai — November 15, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Everybody ought to show up at the BOCC meeting on Tuesday to support Ed Barnes!

Would I go? You just have to be there to find out.... ;)

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: At the link JohnK shared, you need to go to "Archives" on the left and search for the Board of Clark County Commission meeting you want that are not current.

There is always a delay of a day or two, if you don't watch it live, before it shows up on the Archives list.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Washington state's proposed transportation package will allocate less than 2 percent of the total funds on transit and improvements for cyclists and pedestrians.

Most of the funding goes to road projects.

Even the constipated US Congress is giving 20% of its budget to transit projects.

So, King County folks are talking about forming their own Transportation Benefit District for taxing authority to help fund transportation.

Do you think a similar proposal will be considered in Vancouver?

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John K,

Not true. Whe something is mandated like auto and now health Insurance you may charge what is nessassary to continue to make money. With more unhealthy folks being added into the pool, health insurance companies have no choice but to raise premiums to pay claims. Why should it be mandated to buy plans where most will never use most of the plans coverages. Your good for society plan doesn't hold water... Such a lamo answer..Thats like saying hey RJohn, I over spent this month can you spare $500 ... Geez thanks your a swell guy... Maybe I'll repay ya someday , or not... The system cannot work this way... Pricing will continue to go through the roof. John, don't know your age but I do know for a fact if you are not eligible for the exchange your pretty much paying a bit more to allott more this year than last year.. Everyone is.. Unlike auto insurance when the car gets a certain age you just may put Liability coverage on it or even Uninsured coverageas well, Under Obamacare thta's not an option. Young and healthy people are being forced to pay thousands of dollars a year for coverage they will not benefit from for the most part. We need better options for them.that means folks that are healthy too. Give them discounts for living well and beiing healthy. Kinda like flo's vanishing deductible... There are lots of options, were just seeing the political options being presented. the private sector can do and has done a much better job...

vanwadreamer — November 15, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A little more about Madore.

As far as I’m concerned, Madore is not being egotistical, but is asking questions about the details, rather than just going along and rubber stamping, which makes some uncomfortable. As far as I’m concerned, he’s dealng with an entrenched, and when it comes to the CRC, even a hostile crowd, and that can’t be easy. So yes, you can pretty much expect that it’s going to be Madore who is asking the questions that no one else will. For example, at the C-tran hearing the other day, he had questions about the way the minutes from the previous meeting had been written, which may have given some false impressions about sentiments expressed during discussions, including certain comments that Wolfendale had made that may have been mischaracterized, and as I saw it, Mr. W agreed with Madore about that. He also questioned Mr. Wolfendale over imminent domain issues. I’d say that Wolfendale was a little annoyed by the repeated questions, but in my view, Madore understood the score, but was trying to lay the details bare. I think the point was whether C-tran is contractually obligated to invoke imminent domain, if it ever became necessary, at Tri-mets command. It’s not about a small amount of property, or the dollar value. It’s a matter of state sovereignty.

BTW, while I’ve got my own ideas, I don’t follow politics the way some of you obviously do. While I occassionally attended a public hearing years ago, it’s only been recently that I’ve taken the time to view some of these things on CVTV. Interesting, instructional and sometimes even great entertainment!

(Oh. BTW BTW. Someone mentioned Stuart’s new beard a while ago. I think it’s great. Put him in a pin stripe shirt and suspenders, and he’d look like he was a log cabin dwelling lumberjack. Maybe he’s vying for the north county logger vote.)

kn_dalai — November 15, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking about Steve Stuart's beard...I'm wondering if he's joined in on the Prostate Cancer Awareness Month campaigns. The weather guy on KOIN has grown a mustache...part of the Movember campaign. Others aren't shaving at all for November in this campaign.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.


goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 7:29 a.m.

Having troubles typing today???

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 15, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.

Regarding the beard...I'm not much for appreciation of facial hair on men but on Commissioner actually looks good...kind of a renaissance look to it.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: The term is "eminent domain." :)

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr Kriedler Ins comissioner of Washington, says no to Obama.. We will not reverse course... Its not in the best interest of Washingtonians... He also doesn't believe the President has the authority to make these sweeping changes. Now that the president can't Blame GWB he is now going to lay the cancellation blame at the fett of Insurance companies... The hole only gets deeper...

Interesting how the House voted to pass there version of a fix it bill. President right away comes out and natuarlly say he will veto it.. He is now visiting with Insurance executives for the first time since presenting his ACA.. A little there MR President.. Maybe not.. One thing for sure in the long run is that Your Insurance rates will continue to go up. The biggest loser is Joe Citizen..

vanwadreamer — November 15, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.

Well manthou, you sure did get me with that one. Ouch! I’m wrong and you’re right.

Congratulations! You earned your wings today young woman, my hats off to you. Well done! Yes ma’am! Splendid work! I surrender to ya!

Now the really big question is about Stuart’s beard. I give it a thumbs up. Goldenoldie seems make an exception for Stuart and also gives it a thumbs up. How about you?

Come on manthou. All in fun. Don’t be disgruntled. Remember it’s only politics, and is not about life and death.

kn_dalai — November 15, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have been busy all morning GD, not ignoring you. What's your question?


The problem with Wolfendale is that he has to deal with "interpreting" the law in order to give advice and "on the fly". He is the most vague attorney I have ever heard. He just doesn't sink or swim. Now a judge has to decide the veto issue like this thing should not be clear on the bylaws already.

if it isn't clearly defined there, these people are stupid and have no business running anything.

In reality, they are really dumb.

Mission? Regional transportation system! Time frame? Errrrrr how many centuries do they need?

Dumb as a rovk! These people are not doers, they are burocrats, bench warmers on the taxpayer's monies. They make a living on everybody's stupidity.

In a way, I think that we need a good dictator, that is the only way things get done and "pronto".

No, Madonis is not a candidate for that position. I wan a McArthur...

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My question is...

Why should we show up at the BOCC meeting just to see if you decided to show? I'd be going for the reason of the meeting and it's context, Pups...definitely NOT to see if YOU showed.

My, my, my...that swelled head really DID get stuck in the doggy door, didn't it!!! reeeeeeeally set yourself up for THAT one!!!!


All in fun, pups...all in fun.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 12:51 p.m.

Okay your spelling has really hit rock bottom. Are you REALLY suffering the aftereffects of your head stuck in the doggy door or are you using autotext??? I can understand the lack of capitalization or punctuation errors...but these???




taxpayer's??? (first person singular rather than multiples???)

McArthur??? (If you're referring to Douglas MacArthur???)

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh's rubbing off on ME, now...

aftereffects should be "after effects."

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hear you GD. It goes like have something to say in your head, that becomes many things, then you have a small device where you try to type with your fat fingers and mess it up and don;t bother to correct it because it is a small window and you are three sentences ahead. Then comes this stupid and I mean stupid Captcha nonsense that drive me nuts and slows everything down.

So, you get what you get and be happy you get something...

The Tuesday meeting is important. A citizen has been threatened with a lawsuit. Just that fact tells us how wrong this Benton guy is. He, like Madonis believe his own BS, nobody else does but the idiots don't want to get it. They don't want to be called out and they will be called out until they leave government, lawsuit or no lawsuit. The are defying people's good will and patience. They are pushing it and the $hit will hit the fan. They will lose big. The three of them. For one, they have no integrity left. To the majority they are crooks that took over local government. They are not producing nor bringing progress to the area. Progress is family wage jobs. That is the priority. Parks are not a priority, police is not a priority. Jobs are the foundation for a community to thrive and prosper. No jobs, we got nothing but crime, violence, alcoholism, drug addiction and broken families. They just don't get it.

You don't have to go on Tuesday GD, meeting a nobody is not as important as getting rid off the crooks while drawing the!

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

not as important as getting rid off the crooks while drawing the!

Oh my LOLOLOLOL!! Oh my mind just went in the gutter!

ELISI — November 15, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*** The epitome of an egomaniac ***

Yes indeed people, Madonis at it again on his facebook page...Check how he ends his diatribe....

"Our next commissioner’s meeting will be at 6pm so people who work during the day can attend. Yes, we are moving Clark County forward in tangible practical ways without debt. And we’ve got a great team to champion those improvements.

How are we doing, bosses?"

Okay I bite corrupt loser. You are doing worst than I ever imagined. I am not your boss, I will never be! Why you may ask? Because I don't hire unqualified people that in turn hire other unqualified people and make a joke of a government we all pay for. A person with his head so deep up his a$$ that he is clueless and thinks that he is doing well by stepping on people's trust to follow hiring procedures. How many have resigned when you came in? Did you ever bothered instead of asking "How are we doing bosses, why are you guys leaving?" Is it me? Have I done something wrong? Insulting? Did I fail by bypassing a Human Resources Department we all pay for and is there for a reason?

You don't ask yourself those questions because you are blind with ego and can't see beyond your nose the way you are demeaning your community's government.

Get lost and the sooner, the better, with your churches, your company and your cronies. We gave you an inch, you took a mile. It won't happen again. That is a guarantee!

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Why don't you attempt to write more that a one liner on an iphone and then talk. You could not even construct a sentence to make sense and that is since day one.

The only thing you do is criticize others. What do you have to bring to the table buy your fugly face?

Have you ever stood against corruption? Hell no you obese blob!

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow. From Goldy of The Stranger:

"Socialist Alternative challenger Kshama Swant captured 56.3 percent of today's 3,548 ballot batch, to take a commanding 1,640-vote, 50.3 percent to 49.4 percent lead over 16-year incumbent Seattle City Council member Richard Conlin. Conlin is planning to make a statement at 5 p.m. in which he is expected to concede."

What other cities in the US have a socialist candidate who is in office?

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Honestly pup, why are you calling Elisi a name now? And how do you know she is obese? And what if she were? Jeez, calm down. Stop the insults.
But tell us how You fight corruption besides yelling about it here.

luvithere — November 15, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.

Okay...I'll let you off the potty papers for that excuse, Pups. Regarding Ed Barnes...he was at the last meeting and is known for not having issues with telling it like he sees it...even if we agree or not. I'm not sure how you can account for his showing up...or for you showing up for that matter to make a difference when it comes to Don Benton and his county job. Acting like a fool in a county commissioner's (or city council) meeting usually gets people in trouble at these events. I've seen it on numerous occasions. It's usually frowned upon to make verbal hoots and hollers, Pups.

I'm not sure why you think what you think about one or more of our county commissioners but a resident of Portland...what is it you expect to accomplish by attending a Clark County Commissioners' meeting, Pups??? Out of curiosity, have you ever attended county commissioners' meetings in Portland??? Or what about TriMet meetings??? I can't believe Portland is free of corruption at the city OR county level.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kshama Sawant on Chris Hayes coming up. Fascinating win.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 15, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.

Did you read about the little boy in California who dawned a Batman outfit to fight crime??? A wonderful gesture by the Greater Bay Area Make a Wish Foundation to allow him to fulfill a dream...but I don't think it'll work for our forum dawg...8))

With regards to pups...I believe he goes into "fight or flight" mode any time he gets cornered and the only way he believes he's angering others is by using such needless insults easily remedied by anybody who still has the need to use the "ignore user" feature...kind of a high-tech "sticks and stones will break my bones" in a way.

Just my thoughts.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The only thing you do is criticize others. What do you have to bring to the table buy your fugly face?

Have you ever stood against corruption? Hell no you obese blob!"

Hmm Best run to a mirror.. Checking over every days posting from you and all that is in them is criticism. Criticism of elected officials that YOU have no right to have a say about! You don't vote in this state, since you have made it VERY clear you do not live here several time in the past. Try critiquing your own state, hell there's plenty to go ballistic about from the crappy schools, over taxing the people, shootings, murders, rapes, to trying to cram LR down our throats over here.
And..criticism of other posters that do not salivate at your every syllable.
As I said once before IF you are voting in this state and not living IN this state that is voters fraud, punishable by law. Don't give the old routine of yours that you own property here, so what! Many people OWN property in other states but do not vote in those states cause they don't reside full time in those states.

Only people that are fugly on the inside, do as you do. You troll on here just to stir people up period. You can't take anyone criticizing or even poking a little fun at you. People like you that do nothing but troll on the net and stir the chit, to get an adrenaline rush, cause you can't get it any other way.

As far as what I do, non-ya business. Why sit on this forum or any other and complain? I'm a "doer" not a "complainer". Complaining does nothing but give everyone a splitting headache. Just cause you don't know my face, or name doesn't mean I don't attend meeting or that I don't speak up at the meetings, send emails, or make phone calls.

So go crawl back under the bridge troll find someone else, another forum to practice your trolling.

ELISI — November 15, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"""What other cities in the US have a socialist candidate who is in office?"""
manthou — November 15, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.

Closet socialists or actual registered socialists???

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There you go again GD and your Portland thingy...

I explained with stick, with apples, with oranges, with beers, with wine...and you still don't get it.

Some people have more money than you do and more properties than you do. They have a legitimate concern of what happens in certain localities and the rigght to be wherever they please and say whatever they want.

The envirnoment is a universal fight for survival, health, income, property values, therefore we have to protect it and to protect it, we have to select the most capable not charlatans or con men.

If we don't do something about it, dirty oil and dirty coal will come here to ruin everything and all the brains will leave the place leaving only the welfare people. Is that what you want?

Madonis is part of that destruction. He is part of the plan. The port of Vancouver directors were bought to make dirty oil and coal to happen here. Benton is part of it.

Portland is different. people in Portland give a fight, hell they occupied the city so unlike Vancouver. Whether it worked or not is another story but Portland has an army of citizens ready to risk it all, unlike Vancouver. Portland people are not brainwashed by churches as much as Vancouver people are.

I could go on and on but by now after the nth explanation you may cease to discouraging me from commenting. We are in a metropolitan area, anything thing that happens here or there, affects both cities.

Ed Barnes is a warrior because he put himself on the line to fight corruption. An old man is giving the example to the rest that we should not accept corruption as status quo. Cronyism is corruption. It needs to be stopped and we will.

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — November 15, 2013 at 5:36 p.m.

Consider the source, my friend. The forum dawg is quick to jump to conclusions all the time. A great example is his ASSumption of Dave Dahl...condemning him, even making a blatantly stupid remark about one of the co-founders of Dave's Killer Bread because of his background before he took the steps after serving his time, to run a business and to be a success (even helping those who were incarcerated by giving them work once released from prison since it would be difficult for them to find jobs elsewhere)...especially when it has been reported (KGW) that he is possibly suffering from a mental issue...NOTHING mentioned about this being drug induced, but the dawg of course jumps right into that ASSumption. I'm thinking Mr. Dahl has suffered a breakdown or a medical crisis.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.


So you're complaining about the crude oil coming to Vancouver...then please explain to me what you're doing about all those tanks in NW Portland/St. Johns , pups. And before you start goin' around in circles, chasing your tail with some crazy, hair-brained excuse by trying to say Vancouver is worse than that...I already know what is brought into the tanks in NW Portland/St. Johns, thanks to some acquaintances who used to work in the area.

...or should I mention this one, Pups:

...then again, there's Jubitz right off of Marine Drive and their diesel fueling system...

...and PDX and their jet fueling system...

...and all the various heating oil companies with their tanks...

Shall I continue??? Why yes, of course!!!

...what are you doing about the leaking tugboats across from Hayden Island, pups)...

...what about the continuing Columbia River Slough pollution issues, pups? What have you done about that?

...what about the Bonneville Dam's recent alerts to avoid eating salmon from behind the dam? What are you doing about that? It comes down river, you know...the same river you sail on???


Need I say more, Pups? I could give you a mountain of EPA complaints, obvious issues in Portland and on and on...but for some disgusting reason, you choose to attack Madore, Benton, Port of Vancouver and God only knows what else...but it's all about Vancouver. Why is that, Pups???

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes...then there's the asphalt plants in Portland...more gunk into the envirnoment(sic).

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW might check out the Willbridge Plant in BW Portland and what they have-

And a bit beyond Portland in St. Helens, Oregon...

Here's another one just for you to consider looking into, Pups...

My point??? It's NOT JUST VANCOUVER! It's all along the lower Columbia River and the Willamette River, Pups. You should be bringing attention to the entire issue, not just Vancouver's crude oil debacle.

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oopsie...that should be the Willbridge Plant in NW Portland. Time for an evening departure from the forum. I'll be looking for your response in the AM, Pups. Don't disappoint me, now. I don't want to send you to your piddle papers in the corner, now. I'm running out of bird cage liners...8)))

goldenoldie — November 15, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Who says I am not GD?

Look, only a derailed person will ram three police cars and injure two officers.

I never liked his grain packed bread that the only thing it does is make people fat.

I bake my own and it is 100 times better and more nutritious

He is a dumb a$$! he acted like a dumb a$$ and he will pay like a dumb A$$!

You don't run a successful business when you pay people minimum wage GD, that is called taking advantage of their condition and profiting from their work and shortcomings.

Later GD easy on the puppy door, i see you are still stuck! ;)

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you're not watching Rachel right now, check out the last 20 minutes just for fun. BatKid in San Francisco.

langenthal — November 15, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.

If Vancouver were to establish a Transportation Benefit District, what would you want to spend the money on? I mentioned on facebook quite a while back that this might be one way Vancouver City Council could get around a sales tax increase to fund light rail O&M;, and Jack Burkman responded (quite emphatically) that he considered this a waste of funding that could be put to (unspecified) better use. And while I haven't checked in a while, I'm thinking anything over $20 has to go to the voters.

As to your link, that recommendation presents another issue. The writer wants to have King County declare itself an TBD for Metro. Seattle is already a TBD, for general transportation issues, to include their light rail. (They put a $60 tab fee on the ballot a couple of years back, and it got blown away.) This overlapping TBD boundary appears to be legal, but I'm thinking most of the people of Seattle would see this as wrong.

roger — November 15, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I watched it. Very cool. Wish we could rally together around issues like that daily with such unconditional good will. :)

roger: I put the question out there because I hoped you would help me figure it out. I was thinking that, since Vancouver seems to be the transportation vampire (sucking up most of the needed C-Tran resources), there ought to be a way to fund the city's needs in this area from city residents. It would have to go to the voters, for sure, but it would ease the funding burdens on those cities like Amboy and Yacolt, who just don't see the need.

If Vancouver seems to be the group who wants BRT, for example, they should find a way to fund it. I would like to see some exploration of the topic. I am not a transportation geek, like some are, and am struggling to figure out win/win solutions, if they exist.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 15, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.,

"...but it's not acceptable, from either a fiscal or ethical standpoint, when it comes to inclusionary national health care."
"For the good of society" arguments usually only work when there are shared societal values - we don't have them because we're mostly all from different places - one of the downfalls of our transient society. And I'd say we threw ethics out the window many years ago. As for the fiscal angle, one could argue that the ones hurting most were the insurance companies and the for profit health care industry. Granted, everyone picked up the cost, but the majority of this was billed to the insurance companies, and they adjusted the amount to what they considered proper. If insurance raised rates, we had the option of canceling and getting something else (or nothing). I'm finding it hard to feel too much sympathy for either industry.

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

An article from the Washington Post that says there are actually eleven different Americas (not just Red and Blue).

The Left Coast is a combination of two - Yankeedom and Greater Appalachia. After seeing how they oppose each other, maybe that explains some of the fighting around this burg.

"Yankeedom: Founded by Puritans, residents in Northeastern states and the industrial Midwest tend to be more comfortable with government regulation. They value education and the common good more than other regions."
"Greater Appalachia: Extending from West Virginia through the Great Smoky Mountains and into Northwest Texas, the descendants of Irish, English and Scottish settlers value individual liberty. Residents are “intensely suspicious of lowland aristocrats and Yankee social engineers.”

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since the little bat boy has got me in a positive reframe mood, I found some things to sincerely thank David Madore for tonight:

Thank you, David Madore, for increasing interest in local politics by:

1. Inspiring the Freeholder/Home Rule movement. It is going to be a fun and interesting process to watch.
2. Increasing awareness of the importance and protection of free speech in our representative democracy.
3. Demonstrating how elected officials must use social media and mainstream media with responsibility and caution; that what is published and said on the internet can have enduring consequences.
4. Enticing citizens who have not attended or watched a county or city public hearing to do so with increasing interest.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.

That was one of the most interesting blog posts I have read in a long time!

It reminds me of what a Canadian neighbor said to me, when I was living up North there. I was disappointed that there was not a lot of advocacy against a certain policy at school. It never would fly in the US, I said.

He said, "Well, you Americans are rebels by nature. You were the ones who rose up against the Brits. We still have the Queen on our currency."

I was surprised at the immense cultural differences between our country and Canada (they are so much more polite and compliant) and it makes so much sense that we have regional differences that are difficult to bridge.

Roger, you are right: just look at the battles in Clark County alone.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

65% of ACA enrollees thus far come from 5 states. Washington is #3:

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Much of the cost of BRT is already covered by the Feds (New Starts - surprise!! - It's not just for light rail!)

I'm all for BRT; it's much more appropriate for an area like ours. I don't agree with the 4th Plain BRT plan because it's mixed in with regular traffic; to be effective it needs its own dedicated lane. But I feel that C-Tran is once again fueling an opposition to their mass transit planning by refusing to put this before the community and accept our input. (As I'm sure Goldie will support, about the only input they listened to at those open houses was from business owners along the route - they were already in the we're going to build it mode.) Too bad. If they'd just lay out the entire MTP that SW WA RTC has going out to 2030, and show the studies that support the choice of BRT augmented by bus as most appropriate and cost effective, a majority of us would have no problem supporting it.

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, without bothering to figure out what percentage of the nation's population lives in those 5 states, I'm thinking this stat that shows 65% are from them doesn't bode well for the success of the ACA. I'd like to see like what the Columbian posted - What percentage of those who registered qualified for a subsidy? Also, if the other 4 states have exchanges like Washington, and if all of Washington is like Clark County, is it just possible that most of the enrollees are going to be Medicaid recipients?

The people who are supposed to pay for the rest are not joining.

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Didn't we see bumps in the roll out of Medicare Part D?

What I don't get is why people are fighting to keep inferior coverage.

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 15, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.

1.10.3 of the agreement between TriMet and C-Tran says that if TriMet is unable to negotiate a settlement with the owner of a property that TriMet determines is needed for the project, then C-Tran "shall use its eminent domain powers to acquire the required property interests." And later "Thereafter, C-Tran shall, upon request from TriMet, transfer ownership of such property interests to TriMet."

TriMet makes the decision and C-Tran has to follow though (and expeditiously, per another section). "Shall" does not mean if C-Tran wants to.

A couple of the many questions that don't seem to get answered -
- How can a quasi-government agency of another state own property in our state?
- What if we decide to cancel our contract with TriMet and say Sorry, light rail was a bad idea and we want it shut down. We've transferred ownership of the land light rail travels on to TriMet - Can they tell us Too Bad, they'll do what they want on THEIR property?

I can see it now - Some of our more conservative brethren will erect a wall around the old downtown and rename it New Portland. Proceedings will be initiated to formally cede that section of the city to Oregon. Don Benton will be invited to perform the handover. More than one way to skin a polecat!

roger — November 15, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Perhaps people are fighting being TOLD they have to buy it. Put it out there and convince me it's good, and I'll be much more likely to play along than if you tell me it's good and then shove it down my throat. (Yes, I've got a bit of that Appalachia in me.)

roger — November 15, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bernie Sanders calls himself a Socialist (a Democratic Socialist, a la several Scandinavian countries).

Also, and it's been a long time and my memory may be tricking me, but I recall a friend who was a leader in the Socialist Workers Party winning a seat as an alderman or some such title in Philly. (That was back in the old days, when the party was all about organizing labor unions. There was a divergence of goals in the mid 70s, and the minority rights/social agenda crowd took over. Most of us labor activist types split.)

roger — November 15, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's another one. Short and sweet.

I'm 60/40 left.

hawkeye — November 15, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

59/41 right

Fun test

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

34/66 right

So, I wonder if that's why in my mind I want the predominant number written on the predominant side. Meaning, if I had written 66/34 then I would have been stating 66% left.

Drift — November 16, 2013 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

50/50 here.

Roger, I am no fan either of Prtland's light rail coming here. But there is one fact we never mention. We don't have a light rail system. What if our area/ county has their own? under the same authority as the buses?
early, not enough coffee, hope I make sense.
The question is: do we resent light rail because it's theirs or do we not want light rail at all?

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Bark of the Day ***

Press Talk today. The infamous coffee mug, don't do stupid stuff... The Columbian now is in the coffee mug biz. What can I say? Diversify, diversify, whatever works but.... Seriously..

We are beyond "stupid stuff". There is a difference between stupid and offensive. Cronysim is offensive because it steps in our value system of fair play, honesty and integrity. Stupid stuff could amount to a mistake, something non intentional or because the person did not know better. Big difference. Some can testify that the damage is the same, some can live with the damage of one like so far its happening, others can't stand it and want a reversal of the stupid stuff. That is why Ed Barnes and others continuously show up at the BOCC meetings and let the crooks now about their contempt. Same in social media. This will not stop unless there is a reversal on the cronyism decision or they do another stupid stuff and the lawsuits pile up or they are voted out or they just plain die.

I would suggest another cup and that is "The Three Stooges have got to go or the M&M; boys and their puppet must go!" But it takes more guts, guts that the Columbian does not have, that is why it uses a subliminal message.

Carolyn Crain on her facebook page claims that a sister is sick and in a special facility. I ask her, who pays the bill? She loves to hate "government", is she footing the bill? I wonder.... She hate free loaders as her below posting shows, Are she and her sister free loaders? I don't know, but I am curious to know....

Clark County residents are not very bright and they were molded as a suburb, strip mall church mentality people. They do not "calculate" the cost of operating, maintaining and insuring a car for their basic needs, nor they calculate the cost of living far away from meaningful employment. They are failed mathematicians. Most of their land is wasted piling up old manufactured homes and junk cars. Their land is not producing. It is a wasteful society. They think that oil is forever and so are 40k cars. They don't have the brains to understand living efficiencies through density. They just want their "bungalow", a patch of grass, close the door and then rejoice in their misery inside four walls drinking the beer and watching the game. That is it. Don't expect more. You need education for that. I am generalizing of course but that is what I have seen with the exception of well off neighborhoods.

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 6:11 am: You might have a very good point there. It ties into my Transportation Benefit District question for Vancouver.

I did not hear Madore, Crain, Peterson or anyone else outside city limits belly aching about seizing property for light rail development until C-Tran handed that right over to Tri Met. 27 plus homes on I Street between 27th and 39th were supposed to be taken in my neighborhood alone when the CRC included I-5 widening. Our neighborhood has been crying about that for years, until cutbacks took it off the table, but no one outside Vancouver raised their voices in unison, until Tri-Met was given the right to acquire property on the proposed light rail line. Now, suddenly a millionaire from Camas is feelin' our pain.

You are on to something, luvithere.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Better late than never……..

PA newspaper corrects its 1863 editorial, calling Lincoln's Gettysburg address "silly:"

What's more amazing? A newspaper from 1863 is still publishing and able to do this. :)

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 15, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.

You read me right, Roger. The BRT needs its own dedicated lane but in order to accomplish that through the entire corridor, they would either (1)eliminate a lane for automobile traffic or (2)begin property acquisition for a dedicated lane... negatives about both ideas(1)more headaches for commuters by vehicle and (2)too expensive. My thoughts...increase the number of pull out lanes large enough to accommodate articulated buses. Improve pedestrian crossing lanes. Improve shelters for the riders to accommodate for weather-related issues as well as safety.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ooh...Roger, here's an idea...maybe C-Tran will read this comment. Have they ever thought about revamping Fourth Plain side dedicated to mass transit and the other side dedicated to motor vehicle traffic??? It's a thought.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: A retired Tri-Met bus driver assailed the use of articulated buses at C-Tran's public hearing last week. He claims Tri-Met garaged all of them for some very good reasons.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 15, 2013 at 10:51 p.m.

Manthou, if this test is accurate, it appears that you and I think alike on certain things. My score was identical to yours...8)

Regarding your comment about people outside city limits not reacting to eminent domain issues...that I have to disagree. I've made a stink about it since the first time I'd heard about it. Maybe I'm a loner on this one outside the city limits...8(

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Pup, I have nothing against density. If people want to live in a city, go for it. I just happen to rather live outside a densely populated area. Would it be sustainable if we all wanted our few acres? probably not. But the choice is still ours to make at this point.
I do, however, realize that we live in a metro area. There might be a large river in the way, but our fortunes are tied to those of Portland. when such a large portion of our county works in Portland, we need to work with Portland. We can't live in a vacuum. All the bickering will not help that.
Now I also like Portland. I like to visit there. I don't want to live there but it's good to have a larger city nearby.
Should they always tell us what's best for us? No. Should we try and work with them? Yes.

We could always get our own rail system set up. except...I just don't see how that would work. Which brings me back to theirs. One train to Clark College is a bit pathetic, but it might be a start.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou...for the most part, Portland's city streets are quite narrow. We're talking of this service in downtown (wider streets), up Fort Vancouver Way (again, a wider street) and Fourth Plain to Van Mall...again, wider streets. Portland had a very good reason why they garaged the articulated buses. I think they can work for streets such as Mill Plain, Fourth Plain and Hwy 99.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: A couple of years ago, the RTC designated 4th Plain as a "corridor of regional significance" or some other fluffy adjective. There are plans to widen it, but to the West, taking out homes, churches, and businesses.

We cried about that for awhile, too, but it fell on deaf ears. 75% of the structures on 4th Plain West of I-5 are residential or churches, not business. They still have not decided whether the south or north side is being widened.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And before someone thinks I support large tolls on the bridge, I most certainly do not. I am also very disgusted at the whole history of this project and would still like to know where the 100 million+ went without anything built so far. What a ripoff.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: This guy was saying that they don't work in ice and snow (not a frequent occurrence) and that they were mechanically inferior and had to be fixed even before their virgin route was run. Maybe roger remembers more about that. It did get the attention of some of the C-Tran Board members.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 6:11 a.m.

In my case, I resent light rail...ONLY because the entity trying to cram it down our throats has had a bad financial history since MAX began. I also believe there isn't a necessity big enough to support light rail here in our county. When the time comes that ridership issues warrant light rail, then we should be making the initial investment for our own county...not take on the headaches and financial woes of Portland's system. You know TriMet used to come into downtown Vancouver. There's a reason why it doesn't any more. MAX has made it so they have to keep theirs on their own turf. C-Tran has had express buses into Portland for decades. They saw a need to extend buses to Hayden Island and TriMet taunted them with the Delta Park extension of light rail...much to the ire of Clark County residents.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

Good point...but during icy weather, MAX shuts down as well.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7 a.m.

Have you thought of bringing that up to C-Tran??? Any dedicated lane whether it be for BRT or LRT would definitely be an issue...maybe the reason behind keeping it along Ft. Vancouver Way. The buses could still continue through as usual.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe MAX midspan to meet up with BRT???

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

Just an fyi and anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that for any federal funding on a crossing improvement project, there must be tolls implemented to pay back the loans.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Gold, it might be that tolls are required, but I just cannot see why they need to be that high and for all eternity. And these would not stop, ever.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 15, 2013 at 6:36 p.m.

Nope...that's you looking at your reflection in the mirror, pups. I avoid doggy doors simply because I am smarter than...

Oh never mind.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvit...I'm sure they had their legal reasoning behind stopping the original tolls, but can you imagine how there wouldn't even be an issue for funding if they'd kept the tolls going???

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

Your insulting of Clark County residents is uncalled for, pups. It isn't the people who get to decide on anything. It's the planners, the engineers, the commissioners...and any group who stands to benefit financially from the mess. If you want to look at poor planning...look in your OWN backyard, bubba.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Perhaps a good footing for an adequate analysis is what does Vancouver "itself" produces in order "to be something"....

Let me answer it for you....

Housing, banks, churches and minimum wage jobs mostly. That is it! Think about deep and hard. It does not produce $hit! The exceptions you can count with your hands. Christensen Yachts and the metal fabrication so in vogue to get some money from everybody to soothe their bridge height pains. That is it. Add to that a church in every block. Oh man there is a way to measure people going to heaven by building churches and funneling free tax money Vancouver must be the church capital of the world. I wonder how many churches per square miles are there.

Can you have light rail in Vancouver? Impossible as is. Only to connect to the higher paying jobs in Portland. They don't want that but they do squat to create good jobs in Vancouver and it will not happen in your life time if you continue in opposition to progress. You have the dorm town curse.

A good barometer is what do young people do after they graduate from High School or college. I bet they leave town looking for a future. No different than a chinese farm hand migrating to a city. No difference... No jobs to be found in their birth place.

Vancouver is doomed unless the mentality changes. That mentality can only change via changing the mix of the people that live in Vancouver. If you attract people lookign for cheaper housing and apartments, you will attract welfare dependency people, not job creators. There is your problem. You need some serious gentrification adn for that you need to attract quality people somehow. You are opposition to progress only strenghten your dorm town curse.

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Saturday morning, way early, grey skies, means I best go back to bed. Why am I even up?....

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We are talking about Vancouver, did you forget that? Stand on your own truth. Don't look at another town to justify your misery and lack of future. The problem is in your mind. You blame the leaders and you don't do what it takes to get rid off them. The numbers that voted tell the story.

Don't blame me, don't blame Portland, don't use Portland in your argument. We are talking about Vancouver. Also, don't feel insulted. That is who you are as a town. Stand on your own merits or fall for lack of them.

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You are up because the damn dog is barking....LOL

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 6:11 a.m.

Wow - there are several answers to that question.

Some don't want it due to how it's tied to the CRC, and the many different impacts of that. I could fill pages with various arguments that could be placed in this grouping - but they've all been made many times before. (Cost of project, who pays what, impact on traffic flow, reasons it goes into downtown Vancouver instead of to where commuters live, etc, etc.)

Some don't want MAX, because they are certain TriMet will find a way to share their debt with us. (The contract says No to current debt, but future?)

Some are certain crime will increase. (Gresham and Clackamas PDs have supported this with data that crime increases around light rail. P'Towners would be correct to point out that we've got plenty of bad actors of our own, and they'd be more likely to spread down to NW Portland.)

Me - I'm against it largely because I believe a properly designed BRT plan is much more cost effective, and has the flexibility to adapt to the changing needs of a suburban county. The Southwest Washington RTC conducted a study that substantiates this; they published their findings in a report issued in 2008. (Where I disagree is their decision to treat downtown Vancouver as a separate entity and part of the CRC. Most of my arguments with this are tied to my belief that the city center needs to be relocated eastward.) (Also, note that their plan for the 4th Plain BRT back then was for most of the route to be in its own dedicated lane.)

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey guys.

Articulated buses are a pain to drive in town. They really don't like corners. In Las Vegas, they use them in the outlying areas that have large ridership. The streets are really wide there and they are well accepted. In the city, where the streets are narrower, they use double deck buses. I can see this as a good alternative here if ridership warrants the extra room.

As for light rail and Trimet, I think (as I always have) that going to Clark CC is a bad plan. It means that people will have to drive to the train. If you're going to do that might as well put on another Amtrack and make it a shuttle. I'm not wild about Trimet owning anything but it is the only game around. The train should run to the Fairgrounds to get the best use of it.

Question: now do they really "own" the land or are they just controlling it?

Oh, and Goldie, just because you score the same as someone doesn't mean you think the same as them. It just means you think with the same process.

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cheers and Jeers today rightly took David Madore to task for his time-gobbling, impotent "Integrity Resolution." But the editorial also chided Steve Stuart for speaking out against it with such passion and detail:

"Stuart's line-by-line repudiation of Madore's resolution also would seem to be time poorly spent. Focus, gentlemen, focus."

This editorial creates a false equivalency in placing equal blame on both men. Someone in power that day had to speak truth to power and, with Mielke mewling softly in the background, trying to push the issue under the rug, Stuart was the one who stepped up to the plate to.

It is Madore who is putting the brakes on government business.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: I agree with you about LR, if it exists, should run North. That idea was killed by early citizen advocates. Maybe it should be placed back on the table, if this project ever gets a re-boot, which I highly doubt in our lifetime will happen.

roger: Where in the East would you re-locate downtown, if you had the magic wand?

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: In the early public CRC meetings, one of their employees explained that they looked at putting LR lines along I-5 north and that the station heights were too impractical. Stations would be isolated too, like they are along I-84, making them more susceptible to crime.

Anyway, it was in the "considered, but rejected" pile along with a lot of other subjects.

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I heard him speak on the problems of Portland's articulated buses and then checked. They bought 87 of them in 1982, and finally retired the last of them in 1999. They were a cheap, low bid model built as a joint venture between a Hungarian company and the Crown Bus Company - there were so many problems with their product that the partnership dissolved after a few years. Most of the problems he described can be attributed to the poor design of the bus itself - they experienced frame cracking, inoperative doors, and several other problems. The engines and transmissions were deemed inadequate and subsequently replaced. TriMet had a lawsuit or two against the manufacturer because of the many issues experienced.

Modern articulated buses are built a lot better, and backed by the manufacturer. One possibility is New Flyer; they're used in Seattle, Honolulu, Chicago, Albuquerque and other cities, and those transportation agencies keep ordering from them.

The little research I did also had me questioning his argument about handling on slick roads. The Ikarus 280 (what TriMet had) was (and still is) what's known as a puller model; the drive axle is the middle one. These were viewed as handling much better on icy roads than the pusher model, where the drive axle is the rear one. The latter had a problem with jackknifing, etc. Finally, any oversized vehicle is at a higher risk on icy roads - this is why both C-Tran and Tri-Met have emergency routes for inclement road conditions. ANYHOW, I'm thinking that gentleman may have been misrepresenting the facts a bit to support the anti-BRT side.

And that's really more than I want to know.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, you know quite a lot there. All points well considered here about Portland, light rail, and the symbiosis. thanks.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 7:44 a.m.

I'll be honest...I think articulated buses are worthless but it's the design they've chosen. Our streets are better equipped (except for the west side of I-5 on some) to handle the articulateds than what Portland had to deal with. Instead, they've had to settle with a fixed rail system that for the most outdated and needs a lot of upgrades...especially at the Steel Bridge, one of the worst segments of the entire system. As far as light's best use is alongside freeways, not in neighborhoods. What has happened to the east side of Portland along Burnside is an atrocity in my perspective. If and that's a big IF we ever do incorporate LRT in Clark County and Vancouver, I sincerely hope they keep it adjacent to the highways and not on main streets such as Fourth Plain and Mill Plain. Too many problems associated with LRT and automobiles...8)))

Regarding your comparison to me and manthou...I have to agree. We wouldn't need TWO goldenoldies in Vancouver now, would we!!! Well stated, Hawk...8))

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 7:27 a.m.

Pups...that doggy door must truly be stuck on your head. You don't realize the FACT that just because you can see problems in ONE you don't even reside...that you are the seer of all that needs to be done yet you don't give a rat's rear end what is happening in your own city!!! That is...if you really LIVE in Portland.

And flop houses don't count. You can't register to vote in both states, bubba.

My point order for both cities to co-exist there should be a partnership, not only as two cities, but also as working cities...two livable cities working together in sustainability. Portland is the number one guilty party and has done their part to cut out as much of Clark County business as they possibly could, forcing the people to seek employment in Portland...hence, the easy route to gain ridership on their failing loo rail choo choos...but it's not working, bubba. They haven't seen the increased ridership from Vancouver. In fact, the numbers have decreased.

Now, the tables are turning and Clark County is beginning to acquire Portland companies...and Portland is doing all they can to grasp as much control of Vancouver (especially with their transit decisions) because they don't want to lose that control. TriMet truly wants our terrain for their own selfish interests and YOU my that type of behavior by supporting loo into Vancouver rather than Vancouver gaining on their own transit improvements. Rather hypocritical of you...Mister meritocracy.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pups...don't even try to nitpick my statement. You have proven yourself to be part of the problem rather than the solution. You condemn the possibility of crude oil trains increasing their loads to the Port of Vancouver, yet you IGNORED my statements yesterday regarding the Willbridge Plants, the UP plants and all the other. YOU say NO to Vancouver yet no reaction as to what you say regarding Portland's own shipyards. Seems to me, that's rather hypocritical yet again, comment about Portland because you claim the discussion is all about Vancouver. Yeah, right.

You condemn Clark County's people because we don't want to buy into the migraine facing Portlandia in the way of cost overruns by MAX and the need to borrow, beg or steal from others by TriMet. Again...rather hypocritical of you to condemn the people here...the people who support their mass transit as long as they stop stepping on our toes and ignoring our requests...thanks to the special incentives by TriMet to those whose companies stand to profit from contractual agreements...the same people who have deceived the voters of Vancouver in order to gain a foot hold FOR their special interest grid.

Sorry lose.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Considering that Tim Leavitt threatened to file his own libel lawsuit against a citizen, it seems a little strange that he’s planning to attend Tuesday’s BoCC hearing, along with many others apparently, in support of Ed Barnes.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am going to the meeting to support Ed Barnes. Don't know the man but he has the balls most of you people don't have so I'll be there to give him support and to congratulate him for his dedication towards battling corruption.

I am glad that Tim Leavitt is going to be there as well. I will congratulate him and tell him that I look forward to more progress in Vancouver.

GD, what part of we are talking Vancouver did you not comprehend?

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dog; are you planning on making a public comment?

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hm, might have to go to that meeting myself to see all the planned comments. Pup, I expect a rosé between your lips so I know who you are

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have said all what I need to say to give reason a chance. There some people that you just can't reach...

I am going to leave it at that.

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was thinking along the same lines luvithere.

You know that old movie “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance”? Well there’s a scene in there, where the townsfolk are having some big convention to nominate someone for Congress, or something. Anyway, this cowboy comes riding in on horseback, in support of one of the candidates. It would be just great if dog would come riding into the commissioner’s meeting on his Vespa. Make a couple of quick loops, maybe shouting some unintelligible thing, and then depart. Sure to make the front page of the Columbian.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Negative kn_dalai, it is show time and not your fantasy of a show...

You just stay tuned hiding behind your mommas skirt shivering in fear and let real bikers set the clowns straight and packing in a hurry....

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By now Kn_Dalai is entertaining all sort of situations in his mind....let his mind fantasies run wild while I laugh my a$$ off with the exercise....hahahahahahaha

Vrooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm sput sput...ops....tow truck anyone?

Dumb A$$!


nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Excellent. I’ll be looking forward to hearing you speak, dog. If I can’t watch it Tuesday, I’ll catch it on video later. (A small piece of advice if I might. I understand that breathing into a paper bag is good for hyperventilation.)

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Got it can go now...LOL

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Meilke on testimony at the BOCC meeting. Apparently he doesn't know how to use spell check or is smart enough to use words he CAN spell:

On Nov 16, 2013 2:17 PM, "Mielke, Tom" wrote:
Hi Shea,

The BOCC always welcome comments from citizens from both Oregon and Washington to make comment on nearly everything. What we do not allow is testimony about private citizens, employees and ledigation cases or the impugning of others. While I understand that Mr. Benton notified Ed Barnes that he was deflaming his character, it is not something we would likely allow to be discussed during a County Hearing. That is a private matter and we don't go there.


What a maroon!

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dumb A$$! -- nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

Well double dumass on you! (You from San Fran?:):):):):)

Check this out to see what I mean:

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn, that is one of my favorite movies. And you just gave me one heck of a visual. When and where is the meeting? I am off this week so I can make it during the day.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.

Probably the most fun of the Star Trek movies.

I believe that the new BoCC meeting time has now been moved back to 6:00 p.m. I believe that was at Commissioner Madore's suggestion so that more people could attend, rather than during the earlier day.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

StarTrek? Liberty Valance? Are we talking the same movie here?

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Twenty years ago, the wetlands planning was quite contentious. Public hearings would draw quite a crowd and sheriff’s deputies had a presence. I’d think that might be the case Tuesday night. There’ll be plenty who want to name names, but they won’t be allowed to, nor should they. This is what happened in last Tuesday’s hearing and one or two got a little flustered over that.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I’m not sure if I understand your question. Two different movies. Liberty Valance is a western classic from the sixties. John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin and others.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. -- " It would be just great if dog would come riding into the commissioner’s meeting on his Vespa. Make a couple of quick loops, maybe shouting some unintelligible thing, and then depart. Sure to make the front page of the Columbian."

Yep - I can hear Editor Lou now - "Was that Pat Campbell?"

roger — November 16, 2013 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 16, 2013 at 2:39 p.m., -- "...and let real bikers set the clowns straight and packing in a hurry...."

(Groan) Well, I guess we'll be hearing quotes from Sonny Barger any day now. I think we've played this routine before in a previous life.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK - Bakers, cooks, etc. Where do I find pepitas? (Also known as pumpkin seeds - they need to be raw and hulled.) They're part of a topping mixture for a cake I'm making.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 16, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. -- "roger: Where in the East would you re-locate downtown, if you had the magic wand?"

I see downtown as along Mill Plain, roughly from WallyWord out toward 164th Ave. I'd build a new City Building on 136th Ave, in the same area as Firstenburg Community Center. There's also room for a County building and a court house in that area.

That downtown (along Mill Plain) is more fitting for a suburban area. It has room to expand, from as far west as Andresen, and out to 192nd to the east. Businesses seem to thrive out here. Plenty of parking, and when the Mill Plain BRT gets built, the area will explode even more.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I gather Pat Campbell rides a Vespa.

I just realised that if dog is actually there, he won’t need a rose and he won’t need to bring his wheels inside so we know who he is. He’ll be the only one there in leathers.

I may be wrong Roger, but I think I’ve seen pumpkin seeds at Winco, in the bulk foods area. If so, I’m not sure that they’re raw.

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, try Whole Foods, Chucks or Trader Joes.

ELISI — November 16, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just wondering - With the possibility of Boeing reducing their presence in Seattle, can we expect to see political pressure being put on the State's environmental permitting process to approve refinery expansion up north, and also the Tesoro transfer operation here? And also the Cherry Point coal export terminal (which will mean more trains here.) Olympia is going to have to find some more tax money somewhere.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone hear from Nails?

roger — November 16, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No, I don't think Pat rides a Vespa. I'm pretty sure he's got a pick up truck, though. I was thinking more of how opinionated and acerbic he could be. He has great Democratic credentials (Sierra Club, etc), but I think he scared our more staid crowd at City Hall.

No leathers for our forum chihuahua - That won't fly now that he rubs elbows with the crowd down in P-Town. (Unless he hangs at one of those bars where the men are men, that is.) I'm thinking he'll be the guy with bright orange hair and scalp shaved on one side - and maybe with an Elmer Fudd tattoo on his arm.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I see downtown as along Mill Plain, roughly from WallyWord out toward 164th Ave. I'd build a new City Building on 136th Ave, in the same area as Firstenburg Community Center. There's also room for a County building and a court house in that area.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.

Are you friggin kidding me? Do you know where Madore's company IS?

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yep. Why's that matter? He'll be out of office soon enough. Anyhow, I'm thinking the solution is to use that magic wand and move his operation down to the building the City vacates. Then he can invite Editor Lou over for coffee.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kn at 4.18. Yea, I know the Liberty Valance movie. That's why I couldn't understand your comment of " best of the Star Trek movies" at 3.54.

hawk, what's wrong with at location? Too close or too far for Madore?

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Roger, maybe I shouldn’t ask this, but I’m really curious about what bars you’re talking about where “men are men”. You some kind of prejudiced so and so? After all, Madore has recently been lambasted for referring to the bankruptcy of Detroit as evidence that’s he’s a racsist. You talking about men being men could well be taken as homophobia.

And hawkeye, so what if US Digital is on the east side. Just why are you so disgruntled anyway?

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai - Now, did I mention anything about sexual preference? It's just that a lot of men prefer each others company, and some of them enjoy wearing leather. Kindly keep in mind that I'm part of that crowd who were clueless about Rob Halford and why he wore leather and chains - We just knew he was The Metal God.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No - Hawkeye is correct - Madore needs to go. And a little thinking outside the box says sending him to the new/old Columbian building is the best idea. He'll keep Editor Lou occupied, and Lou will forget to harangue about the City and County employees having pension plans. And once he's on that side of town, David will quickly realize that the West side bridge is the best choice after all.

I'm just wondering if once over there, will Madore will turn the 49th crowd into born again evangelical christians? Or will he start wearing jeans, sports jackets with the sleeve pads, and quit using a can of hair spray three times a day - all sure signs that he's turning into a liberal?

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you move ANYTHING of importance in the near vicinity of Madore or any of his properties, he is so narcissistic, he'll think it's a sign from God that he belongs (back) in office and again will run. Then we'll have to put up with his BS again and I'll have to move away because I don't think I can deal with that AGAIN!

Disgruntled? Whatever do you mean? Just why do you love Madore so much, does he wear leather in private with you?

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Priest - Hell Bent for Leather

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 7:31 p.m

Moving city hall to 136th around Firstenberg would also put Madore's home at about Grand and Mill Plain, just sayin...

Never saw a city center anywhere near the edge of the city, tho guess they all started there originally. 136th is not all that far from Camas.

jacjak — November 16, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger...You are on a roll today!!! You've got me bustin' up as I read your comments. Oh...the visuals....


Orange hair shaved on one side...riding a vespa and doing circles in the BOCC meeting, shouting out with a chihuahua voice...screaming "weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" A chihuahua with Elmer Fudd on his wittle teeny tiny shoulder to boot!!! Might I add the cardboard sign with half-illegible scribbles strapped to his vespa that would say "Mador mussed go" (joking about a chihuahua trying to write at all). they even make leathers small enough for chihuahuas???


goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, if you're still looking for those raw pumpkin seeds...kn_dalai was correct in suggesting WinCo. I was looking for roasted pumpkin seeds and only saw raw ones.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:20 p.m.

Why no Roger, you said nothing at all about LGBT. But Madore also said nothing about race when comparing a bankrupt Detroit to a bankrupt Vancouver over the CRC issue. In fact, Madore specifically prefaced his comment by stating that his comparision was about bankruptcy. But when Leftists brought this up in the basement a couple of weeks ago, Leftists here chose to ignore that, and were instead convinced that this is all about “code words” to attract the racism of the low information and low IQ citizens. Of course.

So obviously Roger, your “men are men” comment is highly suspect. Not sure, but I think it’s the goose and the gander thing. Far be it for a lair of Leftists to see this, but what do I know?

(Just the same, I’m still interested in which bars in Portland are the men bars)

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - Probably not. Perhaps red spandex?

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh PLEASE...don't suggest moving City Hall out to 136th!!! Please keep Leavitt and his followers on the west side!!! The east side is growing at breakneck speed. Leavitt will jinx that!!! (sarcasm intended)

Hmm...Come to think of it...Madore's business is on the east side and the east side is booming!!! Maybe he has more support out that way than some of you might think!!!

A few noticeable improvements in East Vancouver...Integra is moving into the old HP site. PeaceHealth's administration office is at their new site at the Nautilus Building. Anybody check out what has happened to the region east of 164th from 18th Street south to Hwy 14 and east to 192nd Avenue and around those parts??? It's becoming it's own self-contained metropolis.

And downtown Vancouver...what's new in downtown Vancouver??? Let's see...they're removing aging trees from Esther Short Park (most likely for safety reasons). The waterfront project...what's new with that "improvement?" And............Hmm...........well.........................................................anything else???

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 16, 2013 at 7:55 p.m.

OH LORD...PLEASE, Roger!!! The visuals are becoming....freakish!!! Shall we add biker boots to the list?

Now see what you've done??? You've brought out my devilish side!!!

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, 192nd and 164th and everything in between is where I do majority of shopping. Going as far west on Mill Plain for Trader Joe's. Seems this is already the new center. Lots of shops and restaurants. Just no need to go west.

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger...Roger...I think I've found a picture of our forum dawg!!! He may be a biker but remember...he also has a sailboat....yar hahr hahr!!!

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai -- No clue. You'll have to ask puddles; he's the one who lives there. I'm leaving town by 4 p.m. every day - They only come out at night.

roger — November 16, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

New York Dolls - Jet Boy. This stuff did not fly in upstate central PA where I went to college. We didn't care - we liked it, but we rarely played anywhere more than once. (Five or six gigs and we were done - word got a round fast.)

roger — November 16, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Have friends that complain all the 'good eats' are on the east side, and since the Eastside Main Event opened, I tend to agree. Love the Bleu Burger and the truffle fries are worth the trip all by themselves. But La Bodaga still has some of the best Italian, and that's worth the trip in that direction.

Also like New Seasons and Whole Foods, tho think WF could use a Airwick occasionally.

Still, no music stores to loiter around in anywhere.... thank goodness for Pandora.

jacjak — November 16, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 16, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.

My thoughts exactly, luvithere. No offense to the west side as it does still have some amenities well worth mentioning including the year-round venues at Esther Short Park and Fort Vancouver is always a wonderful place to visit. I guess Vancouver can safely say we have our OWN Oldtown. I still say an old-time replicated trolley car system from the Waterfront Project, down to the region around Beaches and connecting to Evergreen Blvd. and into downtown might be beneficial rather than an outdated light rail system from Portland. If Oldtown Vancouver would bank on the historic significance (with modern conveniences of course) rather than trying to become something totally would increase the vision of Vancouver as seen by those curious to see what we have to offer. With the riverboat so near, it would go perfectly with Oldtown Vancouver. Or how about horse-drawn carriages taking people around a well-lighted, festive city...down to the waterfront or even along Officer's Row and back to Esther Short cool would that be??? I could see the horses...proud white work horses, pulling the carriages...young couples with a destination, toasting the evening with hot spiced cider or cocoa even... Festive music playing... (can you tell I'm already in the holiday spirit???)

The East side is growing quite rapidly and it is bringing in new business, not only as mercantile markets, but other venues as well. Vancouver is growing rapidly and it can be done with finesse.

goldenoldie — November 16, 2013 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

They only come out at night. -- roger — November 16, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Definite racist connotations there. It's all about light and dark. Night and day. Black and white. Good and bad.

They did a movie on this back in the day.

You definitely need to seek counseling from one of the many psychotherapists which abound here in the basement forum. .

kn_dalai — November 16, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lordi (with Udi as guest) - They Only Come Out At Night (And I suppose I'm the only one here who knows who Udi was.).

roger — November 16, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ha! Can you imagine the uproar that would come if they tried to move city hall to 136th after the city spent so much money on the old Columbian building? The only way that would fly is if they sold that building for twice (or more) what they paid for it. The perfect place to build a new city hall and complex would be the old airport property.

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 16, 2013 at 8:19 p.m

Went to Dublin's the other day for breakfast, I heard they were going to be open for dinner now. The new location is very nice. The food was great.

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*** "Double Bark" of the day.... ***

So, I read Jayne's column today and I am left scratching a bunch of fleas for all of you to enjoy....LOL

Dude, there is nothing "fascinating" about that brute ideology head bumping republicans. There is only one thing to know and learn. That ideology is all for me, whatever I decide that I don't need to satisfy my ambition and ego, is for you. All this crap that government is bad is just snake oil for the ignorant. Government per se is bad only because we let it be bad and we do not audit it often enough if at all as citizens, but here is the kicker, who benefits more from government?, it is not the black or minority low educated employee in Washington DC or anywhere else, it is the big guys that use it to enrich themselves. So the ideology is a contradiction, a lie, a say something but do something else. You tell me what company owner really care for spreading the wealth to his employees? Who?

I remember Madonis bragging that he was proud that his employees drive good cars as seen in his parking lot picture on his facebook page which he put there for the very same purpose, to show so. Well Sherlock, you hire engineers, machinists, plastic injection machine operators and support stuff. Their salaries are not minimum wage like the rest nor they should be. They are not walmart employees. But the point that you miss is that your value system is screwed up and ideology wise. A car does not represent anything but consumerism and in this case a temporary asset that loses half of its value the second it leaves the dealer's parking lot and on top of that you possibly have to carry a loan on it a "double dumb decision" engineered by your ideologues. (Are you listening Kn_Dalai? Lots of "doubles", LOL)

Employees need to be able to save month after month and not have their savings stolen by cost of living, crooks in the stock market, bubbles, taxes to finance inefficiencies, usury, monopolies, financing economic wars, pollution, exorbitant healthcare costs, etc. That is the only ideology to follow and it is called prosperity by doing the things right and once by equal opportunity in access to education which is the foundation of meritocracy and no discrimination.

Anyway, I don't give a rat's a$$ about republicans. To me, they have destroyed this country and Reagan deserves nothing because of the Iran/Contra thing. He was funny, but funny doesn't cut it. The end result has been a gigantic difference in income that is destroying America. Don't believe it? Look at your pockets.

nicepuppy — November 17, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye@ 10:52 pm: We tossed a coin last night: Dulin's or Dirty Hands Brewery for a light meal and adult beverage. Dirty Hands won. It is on Evergreen and Broadway. I highly recommend it. Two graduate level chemists worked magic on the building and the beer and it just opened about a week ago. The place was hopping. Dulin's is next. From my walk-bys, it looks inviting.

I wanted to comment on that email of Mielke's you shared. I have several in my own cache that would frustrate any English teacher. What's also in error? His misleading implication that the BOCC must keep the public from discussing Anita Largent's lawsuit against CC. The commissioners have a gag order from their attorneys to zip their lips, but it does not extend to us. I am glad that this Tuesday is their regular monthly evening meeting. It will be packed.

roger: E Mill Plain and 136th is not very pedestrian friendly (I do shop in that vicinity often, though). I was amazed at the foot traffic downtown and uptown last night. It's hopping and hard to stop.

manthou — November 17, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Have you been following Ron Goodman's FB posts about the DES Director job description that was suddenly altered on CC's website recently? Just in time for the lawsuit, it seems. Stuart told Goodman that he would look into who told the HR employee to alter it.

I am impressed with Goodman's sleuthing.

Also, who wrote and published that glossy PR piece about CC storm water rules that stars Don Benton, protector of all things legal and environmental? There seems to be a broken link to where it once was. Was that placed on the website unilaterally and then taken down once discovered?

Like I said, Madore needs a full-time personal handler to keep him out of trouble. With the possible loss of the risk pool support, he really will need it.

manthou — November 17, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 17, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.,

One could argue that we were on a downward spiral long before Reagan's Presidency. Kennedy's involvement with GATT greatly reduced import tariffs, and otherwise made it cost effective for our corporations to become multinationals and make their products in Third World countries. Factories in this country were shutting down throughout the 70s as a result. And the Kennedys were as hostile to the labor unions as Reagan was; the main difference was that back then the unions were much more important to the Democratic party, so they had to settle on their fight with the Teamsters and their involvement with organized crime (the 'M' word).

roger — November 17, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The American Labor Movement has consistently demonstrated its devotion to the public interest. It is, and has been, good for all America.
-- John F. Kennedy

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
-- John F. Kennedy

the same Kennedy that signed exec order 10988 unionizing 2 million federal workers? The Kennedys may have taken on union bosses to break the racketeering, but not the rank-and-file.

mrd — November 17, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 17, 2013 at 8:46 a.m.

Well, like I told Mr. Goodman earlier today, as far as Benton goes as DES director, it's the old adage--- Garbage in - Garbage Out!

hawkeye — November 17, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Hey, today was a totally sh*t day, I know. Tomorrow's gonna be worse. Thinking of you and your family and wishing you all peace and healing.

manthou — November 17, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sheriff: Budget cuts put public at risk
Clark County's Garry Lucas upset with commission

langenthal — November 17, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 17, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

Huh! Imagine that. If you stop payments coming into your general fund, you got no money to pay for stuff.

Hmmmm I wonder how that happened.

OH YEA! Two dumb Commissioners.

hawkeye — November 17, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 16, 2013 at 10:52 p.m.

Is that Dublin Down on Main? No idea they served breakfast. Or maybe I'm thinking of the wrong place. Then again, nothing wrong with a good Irish black ale or a Porter to get the motor started. Well, maybe in bygone days....

Dublin, Dulin's, Dirty Hand Brewry... deciding definitely demonstrate dimensions determination du jour dining destinations.

Okay, getting silly, and without the black ale or a nice stout guinnness.

jacjak — November 17, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 17, 2013 at 8:28 p.m

Yea, sorry, Dulin's. Really good food.

hawkeye — November 17, 2013 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

madoreMADOREmadoreMadoremaDOREmaDOremadORemAdorem@d0r3 ad nauseum

how about we look for some new republican target to hoist daily upon the flagploe of ridicule for awhile? this one's worn out the knee jerk reflex to just about a spider web's width

DeeLittle — November 17, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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