Open forum, Nov 18-24



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DeeLittle — November 17, 2013 at 11:23 p.m.

Sure thing Dee, just as soon as you can guarantee he won't do anything that will adversely affect me, I'll leave him alone.

OK Pumpkin?

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I second that Hawk. Maybe Delittle ought to put down the bottle or the pills or whatever is she on at that time of the night because as is, she leaves a lot to be desired even from the comment standpoint let alone her sporadic appearances at this forum.

*** Bark of the Day ***

In watching Sheriff Lucas talking to KOIN about his lack of money, I have a few things to for the Sheriff.

- Use your brain, look for veterans doing nothing today because they are jobless and train them to be reserve police officers to help you out.

- Sell that damn tank you have. What are you nuts? Why do you need a tank for anything but to convert it as a smoker or huge BBQ for community events so you get closer to the community instead of apart.

- Lose weight. If you can't manage your own weight, how in the hell do you think that you can manage anything? What kind of example you give the citizens and your own force. Get it together will ya?

- Reinvent the wheel. You can't be that dense to not come up with creative ways to rally the community and help you fight crime. The community is a friend not an enemy like the police attitude always show and gets indoctrinated as such.


About Madonis and his comment to KOIN TV that when business come, there will be money to pay for these services. Well Sherlock, duh. How many decades would that take? Are you going to give them a special "police tax" to accomplish your demagoguery?


nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Outstanding letter from an Ex Clark County employee.

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle: I'm sure people will quit criticizing Comm Madore when he starts following the advice of the Columbian and stops doing 'stupid things.'

And as much as I dislike the 'he hit me first' excuse, it's not like the Leavitt haters raised the bar.

JohnK — November 18, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

According an alert whistleblower citizen, the Vancouver Police Department and the Clark County prosecutor are currently investigating two separate incidents he noticed where critical documents were mysteriously altered and re-published on the Clark County website. Such actions may be a violation of the law, with whoever ordered the alterations being subject to charges.

DeeLittle: I'll hound my favorite elected officials and you hound yours, OK (or not, your choice)?

Together, we may help keep government honest. How's that for teamwork? :)

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yep, Monday morning and back to favorite topic. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
Which docs were altered, Manthou?

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: One was a document on the transparency "grid" and the other was the Director of DES job description. Ron Goodman posted this on FB recently:
On June 4, Bill Barron e-mailed Debbie Nelson about the Environmental Services Director: "There is a job description for the position that is currently under revision to add the traits that a majority of the Board feels are necessary. When the Board has approved that revised job description I will be happy to send you a copy."

As recently as the October 16 board time meeting, that new job description had not yet been finalized.

Imagine then my surprise when I looked at the job description today and discovered it had reportedly been revised 5/21/2013, but apparently actually revised 9/13/2013.

Among the changes, this line was added to the job purpose: "while championing practical application of state law in granting development permits, and pioneering creative and innovative solutions that balance priorities."

And under qualifications, this fundamental qualification was changed from:
"... at least 8 years of responsible management experience directing complex environmental services functions and services, or related operations."

To read: "...directing a
complex organization with multiple functions and services."

And work history was changed from:
"...and a demonstrated ability to lead the integration of organizational subunits into a newly formed department"

into: "...and strong leadership success in both government operations and private business management"

If the Board of Commissioners had not approved a new job description by June 4, nor by Oct 16, why is there an altered job description on the county's Human Resources page dated 5/21? And why does the document properties show it was actually created on 9/13 by "crooksj"?

Steve Stuart replied to Ron Goodman, promising to talk to Mark McCauley to find out who directed Judy Crooks from HR to alter the document and repost it. Ron also alerted the Vancouver Police Department (who has jurisdiction over what happens at 13th and Franklin) and the Prosecutor's office. According to Ron, the VanPD is doing an investigation.

More info will be shared by Ron and Steve Stuart as it is unveiled. Many of us are watching this with great interest, of course.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I might add this: when I testified at the infamous May BOCC hearing, I used Langley former mayor Larry Kwarsik's sad downfall, after a 40 public service career, as a warning example to all commissioners: don't make decisions unilaterally or behind closed doors or you could wind up in jail like Mr. Kwarsik.

What did Kwarsik do? He altered a document unilaterally and behind closed doors and BACK-DATED it to appear as if it had been done prior to when it actually had been done.

It appears that someone back-dated the DES Director job description change to May of 2013 when it actually was altered four months later, in September of 2013 (you can find that altered date by right clicking on the document and looking at document properties).

It is highly likely that a lower-level employee would make that change herself without being directed to do so by someone with more power in the organization.

It looks fishy on the surface, but might be pristine. We will see.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ron Goodman is one of my local heroes Manthou.

I got almost a 99.999999999999999% hunch that Madonis and Benton wrote that or told someone to include a particular word. Why? Because like my bad writing, typing and grammar is distinctive of my virtual personality, Madonis and Benton use the words "while championing practical application of state law in granting development permits, and pioneering creative and innovative solutions that balance priorities."

That sentence has the obvious hidden signature of con men, demagogues, charlatans that use those fancy words to "over sell" themselves or to use to address their own private agendas and their bosses!

Guilty as charged! I would be in shock if it is discovered that their dirty hands were not involved in those changes.

Those two ought to be in jail. Clark County has been overtaken by people of dubious methodologies, dog eat dog, predatory, abusive and trust betraying traits.

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This is were the trail starts according to my hunch....

Madonis, Benton, Madonis personally hired right hand, the two or three staff members (those three maybe highly suspects since Madonis "adores them" and could be made scape goats), a person from the Human Resources office. Bill Barron threw the towel it seems. But the material action points to me at staff being ordered by the culprits and since "staff" has been there for years and don't want to lose their jobs and pension they will do what they are told, they maybe the ones...just a hunch...or they skipped them all together.

I got names, but that is for the investigation to follow its course.

You may see the culprits tomorrow night, they will be there...all of them...

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, another prosecuting attorney, one who has been serving the CC commissioners, is allegedly leaving at the end of the year: Laurie Volkman (according to Ron Goodman).

To do what some of these attorneys are being asked to do (cover the commissioner's butts no matter what stoooooopid stuff they do) probably puts the attorneys in ethical hot water with the WA State Bar.

I'd leave, too, to protect my own career, reputation and future. The salary received does not outweigh the risks associated with serving such foolish and impulsive people.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This hot-off-the-press info from Steve Foster, the former HR Director at Clark County. Much ado about nothing? Perhaps……
I just want to correct or clarify some misperceptions about the significance of the job description changes.

From the HR policy manual:


1. As appropriate and necessary, Human Resources shall evaluate the need for classification description changes when job content, requirements and technology change. (see note 1) Description changes are not intended to alter the essential qualities of the job or the value of the job in relation to other jobs.

2. Classification description changes must be approved by the Department Head or Elected
Official and the Human Resources Director. (note 2)

Note 1: Note that if the job does not change, the official description does not normally change. Having a candidate in mind who does not meet the minimum qualifications is seldom the basis for changing a job description!

Note 2: Since the DES Director reports to the County Administrator, that position would have the authority to change a job description. During my ten year tenure (sorry for that) a job description change NEVER went to, or was initiated by the board.

Note also that there is no sign-off or record of approval of changes documented on the printed description. A manager in the department would simply finalize the paper and tell an admin person, in this case Ms Crooks to post it on the web page.

Finally the reference to “Elected Official” in section 2 does not refer to the commissioners. It means that other electeds -- Sheriff, Auditor, etc. -- would be approval authority to job descriptions of positions within their respective departments.

Another perspective to add to the mix of questions. Stay tuned………..

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I don't always agree with Ron Goodman but he has most always been fair and puts very good points out. If this is true I am supprised that the Columbian has not wrote about it. Unless they may be waiting for documented evidence to come out which is most likely the case. On the surface this looks like the down fall of several people. Even the ones that may have been ordered to do it. They would have had to know what they were doing was wrong.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for sharing Manthou. Looking forward to reading more about this when things come out. And they will. They always do.
Hubris usually falls,especially when practiced by those maybe not so smart.

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Based on past instances even when there's smoking guns, underlings are blamed. Standard MO in any forum where the public gets to hear about it. And, no matter what memos may have been initialed sometimes paper trails magically disappear. Just ask Oliver North. Those in front of the camera garners 95% of the claim and thus the consensus of accepted opinion. Or worse, ultimately the public is left scratching their heads with conflicting information, and a bewilderment as to the significance of the original claims.

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 10:20 am: Good to see you again. It's been awhile.....

I suspect that the C needs to wait to see how the inquiry goes. Afterall, its journalists follow professional ethical standards. Not being sarcastic. They don't want to pull the trigger too soon. It may, as I cautioned, be much ado about nuttin'.

We can disagree with other citizens, but agree with their right to challenge and question and probe. We all are better for the effort, as I know you most likely agree. The more diverse eyes on government, the more honest our legislators.

Lou B: In advance of the special Press Talk on Tuesday, let me say this, "I am Ed Barnes. You are Ed Barnes. We all are Ed Barnes." :)

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak @10:45 am: As a former government employee, I could not agree with your statements more. The little guy goes and the administrators stay, perpetuating the dysfunction and incompetence. I hope this is not the case here.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If you look back at some history around here you would notice that Ed Barnes has been and will always be a thorn in the side of some. I think he goes to every board meeting that we have around here. He really works at trying to keep these people honest. Whether or not they like him depends on who he is after. I don't think he chooses sides. I have seen him go after anyone who does not follow the rules. We need people like Ed to do these things. I don't see anyone coming up to take his place after he is gone.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou will the meeting be streamed on the internet live on Tuesday? I can't make the meeting but would like to watch.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody want to speculate why Lou has a special Press Talk coming up?

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I already did in the end of my comment at 10:50 am.

I am Ed Barnes. You are Ed Barnes. We all are Ed Barnes.

Substitute Sparticus for Ed Barnes.

We are showing up to the Tuesday BOCC in large numbers to echo what Ed Barnes' protected opinion to express: Madore and Mielke gifted the DES Director job to an unqualified political crony, circumventing Clark County HR guidelines.

That's my guess, anyway.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: It will be live-streamed on Channel 23 CVTV on Comcast or you can use your computer to watch. 6:00 PM tomorrow.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Benton's attorney will have to threaten to sue a whole bunch of citizens after tomorrow night, in other words. I am no attorney, but I am not so sure that even making a threat to sue can be considered a SLAPP attempt (strategic lawsuit against public participation). I don't think Ed has the moolah to test it, though.

Steve Stuart is supposed to post the hearing guidelines on his FB page before the meeting, provided to him by the PA's office.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Should be interesting meeting. I am going to try and make it just to see.

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: The more faces and voices, the better! See you there.....

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Love the Spartacus clip in relationship with the hanging of Ed Barnes by Benton's threat. We are all Spartacus, have no doubt. You will have to hang us all and that would present a problem, wouldn't it?

All Spartacus are encouraged to bring a dozen eggs to have an egg party. It is encouraged that the cameras are well protected and the culprits wear helmets. LOL

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


other than being unfamiliar with politispeak and the reams of rules, just what in the name of endurance has this human done to YOU?

how is YOUR LIFE WORSE now? what's he taken away, forced on you, increased useless regulations and/or taxes you now have to submit to?

from what i read here, what you despise is his personality and intention to fulfill his campaign promises.

DeeLittle — November 18, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We have nothing against Madore per se. HE is entitled to do whatever he wants to do with his life.

What we are against is his stepping in all we have worked on as a country and has to do with "fair play". That is why we have a human resources department in most every large organization especially public and everyone seeking employment has to be submitted to a competitive process where "merits/qualifications" and "no discrimination" are the deciding hiring factors. It is not as we will adjust the requirements to fit your sorry a$$ lack of skills that ought to get people an executive position with our monies or any job for that matter.

If you don't understand those principles, you don't understand anything. It is fair and square and it work for everybody. That way we can still have trust in the system. This is not private enterprise where you hire who you damn please because it is your money and even then you ought not to discriminate. In this case, no one wa sgiven the chance to apply.

You sound like Josephine Wentzel...kind of

How is our life worse? We have three crooks in office, they must pack and leave. We will not rest until they are gone. Trust me. The community is united in guaranteeing their departure as soon as possible!

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I tolerate all kinds of personalities because that's life, Dee. It spices it up, for sure. Makes it more interesting.

What I don't tolerate is impulsive decision-making by elected officials that winds up costing tax payers more money than it saves. Defense and settlement costs associated with this Benton hiring will come out of the general fund right at a time when Clark County has been booted from the co-op insurance pool. If you are not concerned about that, you might want to look into it.

I suspect that BOCC's current reckless behavior helped tip the insurance board's hand to the thumbs down position. Just my opinion.

Some people are focusing their laser beam on various city councils. Some choose to focus on Clark County commissioners. Some are wreaking havoc with C-Tran and RTC or CRC project. Good for them. Go for it. They have uncovered information, all of them, that makes your life and my life a little more informed.

The point is, many citizens are focusing, inspecting, questioning, rather than rolling over and handing elected officials the farm, fully gift wrapped.

Don't like my advocacy choices? That's fine. I am glad I don't answer to you, And I KNOW you are glad you don't answer to me. :)

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. (AND the rest of you with your vendetta)

Oh for Pete's sake!!!

Pups...where in the HELL were you when the tax assessor gouged the people of Clark County with skyrocketing, hyper-inflated property taxes??? What did YOU do about it??? Did you fight the tax bill or...wait...could it be that you sold and moved out of the county???

You think what you accuse our commissioner of doing is the ONLY politician who has sidestepped the laws but still LEGALLY working within the parameters??? or MAYOR for that matter??? Shall I go further and say...GOVERNOR or STATE REPRESENTATIVE 'bout....PRESIDENT??? What have you done about the other politicians who have done the same??? or even WORSE???

If you OR any other person on here thinks we should just eliminate Madore for what you accuse him...then you're a bunch of HYPOCRITS!!! You're just out for blood because your political opinion differs from his and HE's your chosen Patsy!!! He's a threat to your political agenda because he's not afraid to stand up against you. Well...HE was elected into his position for a reason and it's not just the CRC. Honestly...I'm sorry I DIDN'T vote for him. He's exactly what this county needs! Yup and a few others have swayed me back into show support for who I truly see can get the job done.

All the same bull hockey excuses...and the same BS pouring out day in and day out (YES Dee, I am in agreement with you)...trying to throw an honest citizen (one who could care less if he's paid or not, given the fact that he's a self-made wealthy individual) who gives a damn...right out of county government because YOU don't like how he was able to do something that YOU had no control...yet you HYPOCRITS haven't tried to do anything about certain OTHER politicians in office!

GO back and do your homework, people. You've got a lot of late assignments waiting to be turned in to the teacher!

Hey...when you clowns go attend the BOCC meeting, be sure and mention Mayor Leavitt's open threats to sue Terrence Jefferies...the very same reasoning behind Senator Benton's threats!!! Gotta be fair...

Unless it suits your agenda!


goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here it comes...all the BS just waiting to spew out on me instead of Dee Little, another one who isn't afraid to say it like it is!

Go ahead, hypocrits...who's first???

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"how is YOUR LIFE WORSE now?"

Him and his buddy passed a ban on cannabis collective gardens. I had written to both and explained the confusion between a true collective and a dispensary. Stuart asked the staff to differentiate between the two before the vote came back to the Board. And they did. And Madore and Mielke still banned.

Don't get me wrong with what follows, Dee. I'm not attempting to disparage the man's religion (though I'm an atheist I'm just fine with the Jesus thing), but his character. Jesus is said to have healed people, right?

So much for WWJD, right?

Phht. The man is an embarrassement. He constantly smiles while attempting to manipulate toward his own goals. Not the citizens of the County, but -his-. And he's rather blatant about it. He continually behaves as though he's chastising children. I'm a grown man, Dee. I've no interest in humoring -his- purile behavior.

Oh...but you weren't talking to me. Oops, sorry. Should I go to my room now? ☺

Drift — November 18, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll bite GD

Call your doctor and beg him to get you off your meds. You have a very "changing personality". One day you are against Madonis, the other for. Like I said before, you are like a wind vane.

I will tell you right here right now lady. When you put incompetency and ineptness in charge of the environment, you have a beef with me and a hell of a lot of others. World wide!!!!!!

We are standing up for something. You are always a cowardly no show.

Move on wind vane...north, south, east, west...what is it today?

Madonis days are counted. He will break because the truth will bend him until he breaks, so is Mielke and so is Benton. There is no turning back. Watch my lips wind vane.

This community is pissed off! You can't last long when all Spartacus rally and join forces.

Grow some balls GD, show up to the meeting and state your piece. I dare you, or you have to cook dinner for hubby? LOL

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 1:32 p.m.

Hypocrit...what are you doing about the incompetency and ineptness with the lead man? What are you doing about the incompetency and ineptness with the mayor? What are you doing about the incompetency, ineptness and underhanded political wrangling by any of the current politicians right up to the POTUS?

Changing personality??? You should talk! YOU'RE the one who loves to change words around like a wind vane. YOU'RE the one with MULTIPLE personalities and multiple issues which half the time, you end up screwing up with your lies and deceit. Hell, you can't even keep up with what you've said in the past...and before you try to stick me with asking to prove know damned well you do just enough to get your old avatar wiped clean so you can continue with your lies and deception, Hypocrit. You think I don't know your game???

You're standing up for something...yeah, sure...if that's what you want to call it. YOU have been bitching about this since the day he decided to run for office. YOU have had it out for anyone and anything Clark County because of your failed business dealings within the county. YOU still couldn't answer me regarding the property tax issue...and WE BOTH KNOW WHY!!! YOU Dr. Jekyll...are the good ol' boy's schill...their puppet on a string...and you're about to do something you will regret later in life because you will have realized how much you've screwed up. I have no doubt in my mind that Madore's days in office are numbered, thanks to the likes of the GOBK and you mindless puppets who have played into their poker hand...and the GOBK will come out laughing...and everyone who supported their ploy will be scratchin' their heads saying "WHU HAPPENED???" Madore is trying to break the GOBK stronghold which has held back our county and you Mister're the one trying to string the rope on the hangin' tree.

Sorry bubba, I do attend the meetings. I've missed maybe three public meetings in the past six months...well, no...I am not sorry because I DO attend several meetings, but my questions which by the way, go ANSWERED because I take the time to write them out and share via email with them...and I'VE received positive input as well as comments of encouragement for my participation. Nice try, LOSER KING OF THE HYPOCRITS.

I don't know how you can even live with yourself, Hypocrit.

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

FURTHERMORE, hypocrit pups...

IF this community is so pissed, then why was there only a marginal number of voters this time around??? If they were so damned pissed, then why didn't they get off their asses and vote??? Just another statement from a hypocritical shill of the GOBK, pure and simple!

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie you should know by now that you are not going to change people. Lets be honest. I voted for Madore because I thought the county need some change. They had been running the same for years. And yes it was who you knew if you wanted to get anything done. I thought Madore would be a fresh voice. He went in with to big of a stick. Somethings take time to change. He can't have everything he wants, no one can. It was the same for me with Leavitt I voted for him also. I thought he could pull us away from the good old boy network. Instead he folded right in with group. Did I waste my votes? I feel that if Madore had not used Benton he just may have got some good things done. I did not agree with the hire of Benton. The only good thing I have seen Benton do since he was elected was to defeat the CRC. I would bet that Madore would have never hired Benton to work at his company. As far as us being hypocrits I think we all can be at times. Sometimes we make decisions that we wish we could take back.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Back dating is unacceptable, no matter who does it. We’ll see.

As far as the sheriff’s office goes: whatever funding cuts have been made, go back years. And years. While this is as good a time as any for Sheriff Lucas to raise hell about it, it has nothing to do with Madore.

The county passes a budget every two years. The last biennial budget was passed in December of 2012: before Commissioner Madore was elected. While the BoCC commisioners review that budget, from time to time, I see nothing where Madore has instigated budget cuts to basic services.

Just what are you people talking about anyway? Facts please.

Oh, and goldenoldie: you’re beautiful when you’re angry.

kn_dalai — November 18, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai, when they can face the facts and can substantiate their statements rather than spew their vomit, whether knowing or not what it is they're supporting, Hell hath frozen.

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"""And yes it was who you knew if you wanted to get anything done."""
timerick — November 18, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

And yes, it IS who you know if you want to get anything done!

""""It was the same for me with Leavitt I voted for him also. I thought he could pull us away from the good old boy network. Instead he folded right in with group.""""

Are you sure that was folding right in or something else???

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 18, 2013 at 12:39 p.m.

How has he changed things to adversely affect me? Well, he stopped charging to get into parks making the parks open to every thug and vandal around, as a result, they are no longer the clean - well kept places families want to visit and it causes a drain on the Sheriff's office because they have to spend more time there. Then he started giving away building permits which caused another shortage in the general fund. Also, that money that went into the general fund pays for the County Sheriff, causing a shortage so the Sheriff can't hire the number of people he really needs. And where the hell are ALL the jobs he promised? Tell me that, Dee!

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK YOU SMART PEOPLE, riddle me this;

If it's OK with the County that Benton has two jobs and it's also OK with them that he spend all that UNPAID time in Olympia AND he's able to do that without it causing any harm to his job here in Clark County, shouldn't his job here be considered "part-time" , and shouldn't his wages reflect that and his benefits be taken away since he is technically NOT a full time employee?

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, maybe his required time sheet at county reflects those days he is not working for the county? Meaning he gets paid PT for his work? I frankly don't know. But one can't get paid for days not working. THaT should all be reflected on those time sheets. Anybody know if county has them? Typically all public agencies do.

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk he most likely gets insurance through the state because he is a legislator. I am not sure but look at the part time city council members they get it through the city.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.

Actually, there were already about 180 parks in CC that had no fees before the 'no fees' deal got done. The Commission cancelled the fees on the other 8 parks that had boat ramps. You know, those slippery slidey things that require servicing and safety repairs occasionally. But with no fees, who knows when that will ever get done, and apparently who cares about safety.

I guess the one that got to me before the hiring of Benton show with no job posted or applications taken, is the SWWHS. The complete harrassment of a non-profit that helps support itself through volunteers and donations was/is pathetic. If someone does a service then pay up, find someone else to do it for less, or just don't get it done. But the badgering over wages was petty, irrelevant, and course. Nothing else.

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Can somebody help that wind vane to stay in one position please?

Oh man, After that tantrum she had, I don't know what to say....oh wait, I know what to say...

Walk your talk lady. Go stand in front of the microphone and tell the world, Madonis, Mielke and Stuart, how much you love what Madonis is doing. Like unethical hiring, sticking us with the subsidizing of the developer fees, wasting County time and resources in ridiculous childish not needed resolutions, we are adults here, every one has his/her moral compass, allowing thugs and gangsters free access to parks so they can do their drinking and drug addiction plus bothering other users at the park, hiring his personal secretary in a government job (the nerve), shoving his religion down our throats, silencing his employees so they can't give interviews to the press or they lose their jobs, deducting phony charities and tax free renting space of his building to reduce his tax liability, etc, etc and more etc.

Go ahead lady, grow some and show up, stop talking about it.

Me thinks that you don't have the guts. Dinner is your priority! You will never face the music. You have let us down time and time again. Always a no show. Prove us wrong!


Spartacus #2 and you "ain't" Joan of Arc! :P

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

::::: Nice Puppy busy right now trying to sniff out the acronym GBOK....WTF? Wind Vane, I give up.... you lost me there... You probably lost everyone there...LOL :::::

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.

No, not sure, & no; yes, yes, & yes to your 6 questions. The 'not sure' is what UNPAID time does Benton spend in Olympia? Can't imagine he'd do much of anything without being paid, even for ALEC, and that's probably full time also, one way or other.

Not sure about smart, but still opinionated.

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Very good LTTE today from a Richard Carson. To me he sounds very informed. It is worth the read.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.

If you have proof to the FACT that crime has increased in county parks due to the removal of fees, then by all means...share. Otherwise, it's like saying loo rail to Vancouver will bring in the criminals with no FACTS to substantiate the claim - in other words...a statement that doesn't hold water.


nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.

Shill...go back and read my statement. Either than or get some glasses and some memory pills. I've stated on numerous occasions what the letters mean.

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Spell it out GD, do you mean Good Old Boys ? The K I can't figure out....

Speak English or get the F out! At least I try.... LOL

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Parvobreath...because I say it like it is rather than what you'd expect me to say...doesn't qualify my statement as a "tantrum." Failure to recognize the FACT that someone has caught onto your rather convincing but losing game and refuses to follow you like a wandering puppy really gets your fleas a hoppin', huh! You had me goin' for awhile there, Parvobreath...but I wasn't born yesterday. What I was smellin' from your comments wasn't roses and it was enough to turn me away PERMANENTLY!!!

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

Tough crap, Parvobreath. I speak English just fine and I'm not about to go anywhere. I've caught onto your game now all you're doin' is chasin' your tail...that is...IF you actually got your head unstuck from the doggy door.

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 4:16 p.m.

Jacjak, you make a good point. It might be worth your time to slip an email to the commissioners, asking them how they're funding maintenance and upkeep of the boat landings. I believe there might be funding through Discovery Passes that cover upkeep of certain designated areas. Maybe the county commissioners have something else set up.

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 5 p.m.

Seriously? SLIP them a letter asking for information they should have had full facts on before ever considering a change in fees?

Aside from the 'one on one' communication with each of the almost half million residents of CC, and it being a huge swill of time dealing with such, I'd expect, as should others may, all considerations were evaluated BEFORE any further consideration of fee waivers. However, as even something as elementry as the collection of trash came up in subsequent meeting, the idea of compentency has been compromised.

And, as Discovery Pass holders were not considered until after the fact, with belated promises to reimburse, I'd assume that was also ignored before. You do remember the troubles Madore and the whole Discovery Pass thing got him into with Boldt's flyer business, right?

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak @ 4:16 PM: Stacey Graham , Exec Dir of SWWHS, is a vocal supporter of the CRC w/ LR. I always wondered if that had something to do with the harassment?

timerick @ 4:39: Yes, that was a good LTTE. nicepuppy posted a link to it at the beginning of this thread.

Hey all: Why the vitriol and name-calling against those who are exercising their First Amendment rights here?

We're all in it together, on the same side of Clark County humanity.

We pool our information and opinion and share and discuss, hopefully, with civility. I am grateful for it because none of us can cover the entire spectrum of the political woes that face us. We have experts here in a lot of areas and interests.

Let's demonize those politicians we love to hate and stop skewering each other. Share what we learn and pool the information to make us better-informed voters. Take what you want and throw the rest away. No harm. No foul. Pretty please?

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

David Madore does a good job of bringing people together.

When's the last time we've had one and only one topic of conversation here?

roger — November 18, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey guys, I speak with acronyms and I am so dense in the brain department that I will not let you in in the meaning of them, sorry, tough luck...end of tantrum....

How old are you GD? Man up, show up to the meeting and state your piece, defend your boy and stop running away and hiding....


nicepuppy — November 18, 2013 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 18, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.

Sure thing MoldieOldie, I'll get you those FACTS just as soon as you provide some for all your crapola. I heard this from the local County Mountie. He said they were spending WAY too much time at Lewisville, much more than EVER before. If you need numbers, go find them yourself.

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.

The service calls list says it by the only 3 months.

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 5:58 pm: We could have Rob Ford to deal with. I am kinda feeling lucky here, by comparison. :)

hawkeye: I am this far (my index finger and thumb are touching) from opening a FB account and joining all the good kvetch sessions/information sharing going on at C cubed G squared. I'll see you soon.

Everyone: It all about political triage. I can only handle one major issue effectively, the one that I believe is most critical. So condemn me, but Leavitt is someone else's whipping boy for now. I don't mind. Just share your gripes about him and C-Tran. I'll add mine. We might learn something together by pooling our efforts. Or not.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou wasn't there a song something like step on over to the other side? Just have your facts in order. Roger does a good job and so does Mike Briggs. Then you have some like me and Mike Yancy. Good to have a little humor once in awhile.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Well-stated. I do believe that most citizens who care (and I place us all here in that bracket) have been disappointed and, dare I say, traumatized, by political gamesmanship of one type or another. We have come to expect the worse because that is what we have been given: lies, manipulation, dysfunction, and incompetence. So, self-protective and cynical, we all jump at the slightest perceived error. Maybe we should focus on what is working and assume that all our politicians are motivated by good will and responsibility.

Will folks give Leavitt the benefit of the doubt? C-Tran Board? Madore? Mielke? Stuart? That might be asking too much of people. I don't know. Just read other blogs. Much more vicious with accusations than we are here.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here we go:

langenthal — November 18, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Bill Barron cannot remember details from just a couple of months ago? I don't believe it. Who is he trying to protect?

You know, that is the perfect witness answer on the stand in a trial. You say, "I can't recall" when you don't want to impeach yourself or someone else.

I think this produces more questions, not answers. What else? Sigh.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Looks like my guess was right:

All these new stories so late tonight. What gives?

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.

Well don't that just beat all? I guess I was right, huh oldieoldie? Guess that makes you, uh, WRONG!

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:56 p.m

All these new stories so late tonight. What gives?

I don't know but I'm loving it!!!!!! It looks to me like the beginning of the end. And I'm loving that too!

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, thanks jacjak. Great job. I owe you.

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't have a problem with the Columbian singling out anyone. But lets be fair and include our mayor. He made the same threat to Terry Jeffries. Yes Benton has done some stupid things. But our mayor is no saint either. The only difference I see is that our mayor is in the inner circle now. He has joined the good and powerful and now on the inside. Just my thoughts and feelings. I am sure some will not agree. Thats ok.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO...I have to say as an avid Fisher Person.. PC...Frenchmans Bar became a mess this year after the Fees went away.. I would be there while crews were cleaning up and ask them if it is worse now.. They said it added many more man hours to clean up and allott more drug parfinalia as well a booze and beer bottles..

BTW jack jack.. No boat launch at Frenchmans...Just nice beaches and beautifull Scenery..What Venting and all the other legislators from our area be doing is getting our roads and other projects funded through this next transportation bill... Our Legislators are weak ..They really disapoint me...

vanwadreamer — November 18, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Jacjak was YOUR wingman tonight. We help each other out here often that way.

I think Press Talk was published accidentally tonight. You have to dig for it. The date is tomorrow at 6 am. :)

The Columbian is helping to rile up the masses with those two stories tonight. Standing room only tomorrow. A room full of Ed Barnes.

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- I follow & participate occasionally on the c3 g2 site so I knew this was coming.

I thought the Barron statement stood out but I think he is also saying, "I'm outta there. Deal with it."

Meanwhile HR staff are twisting in the wind [to use an old Watergate cliche].

langenthal — November 18, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, you are nothing like Yancy, ( Think God) I don't always agree with you, seems to be less and less lately, I respect you because you are polite and respectful of others. You, like Roger; speak with intelligence.

I used to go to Lewisville park until they started charging. I couldn't see why they thought they had to charge when we were already paying for it through taxes. I figured it was just greed, they found another place to gouge the people.
Why are they spending more time there now? They didn't have a problem before the charges were put on.

Allydog, I didn't think I would ever agree with you, but, I am in full agreement with you on our Sheriff and his demanding more money. They always want more and more money but, just like the school districts, you don't see any improvement in the dep'ts. IMO. The rest of your tirades, and I can lump them together as they are all the same, are all BS. IMO again.

As for the Benton thing, I don't think that was a good move, but wasn't there a precident set before, when former commissioners did that with hires. If I am mistaken I stand corrected, but I don't think I am.

Jacjac, I don't understand, why do you think they didn't have the facts before they considered changing the fees.

Hawkeye, One opinion does not make something a fact. Have you gone to the park to see for yourself if the park is gone to hell? I have, and have not found It all as you have described it. It is still neat, clean and is now open to people who could not aford to go to before.

You people that have been dumping on Benton, All you are saying is that he is sub-pare for the job. What has he done that is wrong in that capacity? You have not, as yet, faulted his work. He was hired as an administrator, how has he failed in that capacity? Haven't heard anything on that yet, just a bunch of retoric that he isn't qualified, you haven't mentioned in what way he isn't qualified. As I said before I did not think he should have been hired that way. I don't think he should have been hired at all as he already has a full time job.

rincon1 — November 18, 2013 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Oh...but you weren't talking to me. Oops, sorry. Should I go to my room now? ☺Drift — November 18, 2013 at 1:32 p.m"

i'm sorry i've ignored you, drift. perhaps if i baked some nice brownies for you....?

based on the subject of your posts, your issue is MJ. I don't really care if it's legal or not, so i don't engage. HOWEVER....could issues such as theft, illegal use, etc be reasons the BOCC voted 'nay'? just wonderin....

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.
madore & benton....
madore, imo, is exactly what he presented himself to be: a political outsider who decided he had to do SOMETHING after watching the selling of vancouver to portland. OF COURSE he's going to be awkward! he's an OUTSIDER! as for benton....wouldn't you rather have him in some little local feifdom than the state gvt in olympia?

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
let's see....madore is responsible for opening up parks to the poor who have no discretionary funds, he lowered the building permit fees so middle-class homeowners don't have to take out a loan to pay for permits to build something on their property and the jobs...? just HOW LONG has he been in office compared to our fearless leader...?

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 5:58 p.m
P R E A C H I T , S I S T A H ! ! ! ! !

" Maybe we should focus on what is working and assume that all our politicians are motivated by good will and responsibility." manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.

i can't do that. after over a 1/2 century of watching politicians, i've come to one savage truth: they lie and each iteration is orders of magnitude worse than the prior one. sorry (and i mean that in soooooooooooooo many ways).


DeeLittle — November 18, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What ever happens in the next few days our little slice of heaven here in this county is going to get hot and heavy. This whole mess has done nothing but divided people. What ever the outcome things will never be the same. Almost like nicepuppy said, corruption has come home to roost. I guess we are getting what we asked for and voted for. Are we all wrong? This is what happens when we don't work together for the greater good and let self intreast's cloud judgment.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Check S Stuart's response to Ron Goodman tonight on c3 g2 regarding job description.

langenthal — November 18, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i can't do that. after over a 1/2 century of watching politicians, i've come to one savage truth: they lie and each iteration is orders of magnitude worse than the prior one. sorry (and i mean that in soooooooooooooo many ways).

so you're agreeing, Madore is a lying POS? about time. most people need a house to fall on them. BTW, I'll agree in advance, Obummer is also a lying POS.

mrd — November 18, 2013 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Dee,

I think there is a sale on foil at Freddies.

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Manthou, just read the Press Talk. You called it.
The article about the job description. Good grief, what a circus.
Crazy, just crazy.

luvithere — November 18, 2013 at 11:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Dee,

I think there is a sale on foil at Freddies.

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 11:07 p.m

DeeLittle — November 19, 2013 at 12:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ok... here's the part truncated:



if you're going to use lou's lines, at least give him attribution.

DeeLittle — November 19, 2013 at 12:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"This is what happens when we don't work together for the greater good and let self intreast's cloud judgment. timerick — November 18, 2013 at 10:05 p.m"

isn't 'self interest' just another way of saying self reliant?

DeeLittle — November 19, 2013 at 12:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


this is so inspiring

DeeLittle — November 19, 2013 at 12:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Keep sniping at each other folks. That's what the politicians want. It keeps the focus off them. They make a mess and sit back in their comfy perches, high above us and command: "Let's you and him fight." And we obey.

We have so many critical issues that face us and we need to be united, not divided.

So someone on FB tells Lou B: you are getting a letter in the mail from one of Benton's 4 attorneys. Oh, sweet! The Columbian is defended by eminent counsel Bruce EH Johnson of Davis, Wright, and Tremaine in Seattle, Mr. Anti-Slapp himself. Defender of free speech for media and media darlings/celebrities. I hope Benton has the cash to see this through. He doesn't, however. A defamation lawsuit against The C: It will bankrupt him.

Oh, wait! Benton can use the new WA law, effective 7/28/13, (which really helps publishers more than consumers or journalists) that Johnson testified in Olympia about and Benton amended and helped pass! The Uniform Correction and Clarification of Defamation Act! Ask for your correction, clarification and apology, Don. Quick! You are on a strict time limit and specified formula. Or didn't you read the bill before you passed it?

Oh, we all have a front row seat to this show……it would be much more amusing if we weren't bleeding money and problems out our ears with infinitely more critical problems to address, thanks to errors of this Board that go back years.

Lou, please make sure you publish your letter and/or Mr. Johnson's letter back to Benton's attorney. Pretty please? We need a laugh.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I did read Stuart's reply to Ron on C2G3. It really obfuscated the issue more than it clarified it for me, however. It demonstrated one main thing, to me, anyway: Clark County needs better oversight. It should start with the citizens demanding more accountability and responsible behavior.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, what is C2G3 exactly and where can I find it?

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I erred in my last post: Nickname is C cubed G squared, or C3G2: Clark County Citizens for Good Governance. Good information sharing/strategizing. Very little sniping and fighting.

See you tonight?

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, think I will go tonight. Need to see how bad the meeting will be. Sad, actually, as we got enough real issues we should all focus on.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Benton was hired 1 May 13 - Correct? (This is what The C's article says.)

The date at the bottom of the new job description is 21 May 13. How could this have been used for a hiring action that preceded it? (At first I was thinking it was part of a performance counseling, but then the qualifications shouldn't be listed.)

As soon as the hiring was announced people began digging and claiming Benton was unqualified. Are we supposed to believe something like this current claim - that the new document was apparently never there - was completely missed by everyone?

What purpose is served by going in last month and posting a document with a fictitious 21 May 13 preparation date, given that the hiring action underwent so much scrutiny previously? Isn't this pretty much waving a red flag asking for trouble?

There seems to be a lot of hazy memories, both among the Board and with the staff, about what actually happened here.

"Curiouser and curiouser!" cried Alice....

roger — November 19, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This just posted by Ron Goodman. Wow. This altering of documents issue is in the hands of the Attorney General now. Good work, Ron! At least we have an objective legal eye on it, someone who does not have a dog in the fight!

*****FYI - The Investigation Continues
From Clark County Prosecuting Attorney Chief Deputy John Fairgrieve:
"After receiving your first e-mail I discussed it with Mr. Golik and we decided that it would create a conflict of interest for us to assist in the investigation of this matter or to review an investigation for the possible filing of charges. As a result I contacted the Washington State Attorney General’s Office and asked if they would be willing to handle the case. The AG’s Office has agreed to do so. The Assistant Attorney General assigned to the case is Melanie Tratnick. Her e-mail address is and her telephone number is (206) 389 2005. I have forwarded Ms. Tratnick your e-mails and left her a voicemail earlier this afternoon. I understand that she will be available to assist the Vancouver Police Department with the investigation if necessary and will review the investigation once it is complete." ****

You know who else will needle this to death? Greg Ferguson in his legal fight against the County on behalf of Anita Largent. He must be drooling, waiting to depose our esteemed elected officials

A public record bonanza is going to be eventually unleashed.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting turn of events (for those of you without FB) This deals with the "change in job description" suddenly happening AFTER the fact;

Ron Goodman
FYI - The Investigation Continues
From Clark County Prosecuting Attorney Chief Deputy John Fairgrieve:
"After receiving your first e-mail I discussed it with Mr. Golik and we decided that it would create a conflict of interest for us to assist in the investigation of this matter or to review an investigation for the possible filing of charges. As a result I contacted the Washington State Attorney General’s Office and asked if they would be willing to handle the case. The AG’s Office has agreed to do so. The Assistant Attorney General assigned to the case is Melanie Tratnick. Her e-mail address is and her telephone number is (206) 389 2005. I have forwarded Ms. Tratnick your e-mails and left her a voicemail earlier this afternoon. I understand that she will be available to assist the Vancouver Police Department with the investigation if necessary and will review the investigation once it is complete."

Elsewhere on the page I posted Board Chair Stuart's explanation of the outcome of the internal investigation about the altered DES Director Job Description. and Tami Brewster posted The Columbian's article that resulted from this Inspector Gadfly business.

But that isn't the end of the messy business, as the State Attorney General's office and Vancouver Police are yet to complete their investigation. Granted, it may not turn up anything of significance; but, at least know it is being taken seriously, and may warm some seats before things cool down.

hawkeye — November 19, 2013 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.,

Go ahead...ask me what you want proof on and I'll provide, but just'll have to reciprocate in order to remain fair in this discussion. If you don't...then we have nothing more to discuss. I'll just have to accept your statements based on their merits...or lack thereof.

hawkeye — November 18, 2013 at 9:15 p.m., jacjak — November 18, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.

Anybody with a lick of sense would know you cannot accept three month's data as the actual data proving an increase or decrease when it comes to crime in Clark County or anywhere. Now if they'd acquire the numbers by the year for three years rather than the three months, I would consider the information as credible. Otherwise, it's just a political game by those in opposition of the removal of parks fees. Also...the chart listed by Eric Hidle states "SERVICE CALLS." That doesn't necessarily mean a crime has been committed in order for the deputy to respond.

The article in itself...pure hearsay.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 18, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.

You really have to ask who it is Bill Barron is trying to protect???

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 18, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.

I've been there many times in years passed...I've seen it just as bad then as I do now. I've asked JacJak to check with county commissioners about county funding regarding cleanup of parks since they brought it up. You saw the response I got (seems to be the typical response by people who are all bark and no bite). I'll check into it myself as I am curious as well. Once I get the answer, I'll share it with the rest of the crowd.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah, I do, goldie. Blame it on my feeble brain.

Is he trying to protect Madore? Francine Reis? Judy Crooks? Himself?

Really, it could be any number of folks.

Using the "I don't remember" answer is a common truth avoidance ploy, so, please, share your theories with us. I am all eyes. No sarcasm. Sincere.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*** Howl of the day! ***

Kudos to Lou for his Spartacus Press Talk. I could not have done it better! Here in the trenches back good against evil every single time. No fear, no shame! We stand for what is right! We have been overtaken by crooks with a suit and a tie. It is time to clean house and the house will be clean as a whistle as soon as these con men leave the County.

*** Bark of the day! ***

I told you so, in my opinion, this is just the tip of the iceberg concerning the state audit of Clark County. There is way more under the water level in this "iceberg". Years of bad practices and the Barron lovers an dthe County culture will eat their word. I find this unacceptable, don't you? From a County employee....

""I don't think we did wrong necessarily, but that it is very difficult to track and trace," Wilsdon said. "We just have to be consistent and follow our own policy.""

Listen to me employee of mine, everything must be easy to track and trace, we are dealing with monies of people that are having a hard economic time that are forced to pay. Double effort ought to be exercised and best of practice methodologies ought to be used to track tax payer dollars. There is no excuse for this embarrassment. You are fired!

Barron claiming amnesia concerning Benton's job description? I told you so. Many people raised this guy at the level of "saint" and went over their way on his good bye party to thank him for given them a job and keeping them there for years to collect a fat salary and a good pension. But the guy is now claiming amnesia. Despicable, not to par and standards that ought to be exercised at that executive level.
Stuart and his sorry a$$ "citizen's behavior rules" at the BOCC.

Dude, stay out of it. We are your bosses, we feed your family. We are pissed off and we will let you know every time you people screw up and/or waste our money. Remember, your re electability is at stake. Every citizen has the right to say their piece and due to you not standing up stronger against the two con men at either side of that Board of Commissioners, is the reason why we are going to the meetings time and time again and will not stop until the con men are gone! Bank on it. Tonight, we will be there. Spartacus will be there represented in every one of us because you lack guts to tell it like it is!


What is your excuse for not showing up at the meeting this evening? Come on, give me a new one. Be creative.... ;)


nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder if David Madore or anyone else in Clark County is sweating this AG/Vancouver police investigation any? It's not like they weren't warned by both citizens and his PA advisers: no unilateral, behind-closed-doors actions or you could wind up warming a cold jail toilet. Even if this investigation clears them all, you can better believe it will have a positive impact on future behavior. One hopes, anyway.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 7:03 a.m.

I think he's trying to save his own backside. There's been some screw ups and as you said...a Public Record Bonanza is going to eventually be released.

My honest thoughts...several heads are going to roll, not just two. Either that...or it'll be pushed under the rug and nothing comes out of it. The way our county has been run over the past decade and an embarrassment as far as I'm concerned.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 18, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.

My email has been sent.'s just the waiting game to find out the information I'm seeking.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou Brancaccio...nice that you choose Spartacus as the comparison of Mr. Barnes I agree with you on one point...any time a member of our community stands up and says it like it is, he shouldn't be thrust into legal actions by those who are in opposition to his quotes and it literally feels like one person against Corruption!!!

Kind of like....


Bob Koski???


Terrence Jeffries???

So when are you going to have that little article in the back corner behind the advertisments, showing honest and balanced reporting regarding Mr. Leavitt's open remarks to Mr. Jeffries???

Have a WONDERFUL Day, Editor Brancaccio!!!


goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: You will get spin if you ask the CC commissioners about the parks problem. Ask the CC Sheriff's office, too, to get their side of the story and stats.

Just a suggestion.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:11 a.m.

I honestly think you're going to be a NO Show, Parvobreath. You're all talk, bubba. You've proven that simply by not responding to requests by me as well as others for information regarding what you have publicly done to work to make Clark County a better place. You're trolling tactics are typical of a paid shill, bubba. Nobody can take you seriously.

Now...either man up or take a hike.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 7:25 a.m.

GOOD IDEA! I'll be making the phone call to the Central Precinct once it opens...maybe see if I can get the actual list, because if this is an ongoing trend of degradation of our county parks and our county's livability, I'll be trying all I can to do something about it.

Thanks for the suggestion!!!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Do you know what really bust my balls about your character and personality? This statement...

"You really have to ask who it is Bill Barron is trying to protect???

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Spell it out Lady. Have some courage. You are the most coward person I have ever read in politics forum. Get your butt wet when you jump in the water, don't be such a chicken. Spell it out. You have names don't you? Why do you leave everything up to interpretation and guessing even if it maybe obvious?

Could you imagine going to war besides you? You would probably raise a white flag the minute a shot is fired or cross the enemy lines in the dark of the night and betray all your platoon. Geez, lady, what type of upbringing did you have?

No tantrums please, just names...

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:29 a.m. might stop chompin' on the fleas in your foot and take it out of your mouth for a day. I answered Manthou's original comment in sarcasm and later responded to her, telling her who I thought Mr. Barron was trying to protect.

Going to war? Sorry bubba...I support world peace and believe in working issues out, not jumping into the threat of war.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You are so dense in the brain department? Let me help you...

noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies

a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.


And your excuse for tonight is???????????????


nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The wonders of modern communication and automated responses just responded to my email, stating I'll be hearing from the county commissioners shortly. I certainly hope so.

I wish more would get involved in this issue.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 7:37 a.m.

Excuse...excuse for WHAT, Parvobreath? What makes you think I have to respond to you regarding my plans? For that matter, what makes you think I have to respond to you for ANYTHING???

Again, you have evaded my question...What have you PUBLICLY done to make Clark County a better place??? Have you ever volunteered? Have you ever taken your hands out of your pocket and actually gotten involved in a community effort other than sitting in a meeting and grumbling at things you disagree???

Again I ask...What have you PUBLICLY done to make Clark County a better place???

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Alright already GD. Go rattle the pans and make a good dinner because you will be a no show as usual. No excuse needed. Blah blah blah and more is your boy, con men are your boys, blah blah blah...

I got it.... How is that dinner going? LOL

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So, The City doesn't give a flying leap about the will of the people? 502 passed by a good number of votes (56%), but The City is playing NIMBY. The moratorium is, in fact, a ban on recreational shops.

If one takes a look at the WLCB regulations they would see that one must submit an address for a proposed 'shop.' How can that be done when The City doesn't seem to know what addresses would make for viable locations?

Or do they?

When the Council decided a collective garden was a commercial interest they fiddled around with moratoria and zoning until they came up with regulations making a non-profit venture impossible (from a financial standpoint). So why not simply use the same zoning regulations for a recreational outlet? I'll tell you why. Because a 'shop' would be a for profit enterprise. A person just might be able to make a go of it with the collective zoning.

Can't have that, now can we?

Oh, and BTW, the window for applying for a recreational license with the WLCB is only open for one month. The moratorium could extend clear to the end of June.

I agree with the pup on one thing, throw the bums out.

Drift — November 19, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 8:19 a.m.

As have nothing to share regarding what you might have done publicly in your lifetime which would make Clark County a better place. Instead, you try to go for the cheap shots which as usual...are baseless and hollow, much like a certain organ which is apparently lacking in your cranium.

At least I'm TRYING to do something towards the improvement of our community by asking the questions and sharing my two cents TO the commissioners (all three were asked the question, BTW). What about you? Anything??? Well...


goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 19, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.

Drift...I am hoping...TRULY hoping that the attention brought to the table with the State Attorney General's Office opens Pandora's Box to the possible (borderline) criminal actions or unethical behavior of not just one or two politicians...but the entire local government - city included. It needs a good shakin' up. The GOBK has had a hard grip on our community for far too long and it's time the people's voices are respected and the job done right. (Oh how I wish it would reach as far as the Federal level as well!!!)

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie: i'm sorry i've ignored you, drift. perhaps if i baked some nice brownies for you....?

based on the subject of your posts, your issue is MJ. I don't really care if it's legal or not, so i don't engage. HOWEVER....could issues such as theft, illegal use, etc be reasons the BOCC voted 'nay'? just wonderin....

Cannabis is a subject I am competent in, so I tend to stay within my comfort zone. Also, as you may have surmised, I'm rather compassionate in both the recreational and medicinal aspects. And (probably unfairly) I tend to associate a person's attitude on the subject with their 'politics' in general.

Thanks for the brownies offer, but I'll pass. I've never been much of a brownie fan.

Mitigating illegal activity is actually a talking point when discussing regulating cannabis much like alcohol - on the prohibition repeal side.

I didn't care for Mielke prior to Madore's election. In my opinion he is incompetent. Yes, a good portion of my dislike is related to correspondence with the man about cannabis. He wrote me the County was "mandated" to act on collective gardens. I asked he show me the mandate. He didn't (can't) had hasn't returned any of my queries since.

I'm all for shaking things up in government, but in my opinion Madore behaves like he owns the sandbox, and if 'you' don't play by the rules he'll toss sand in your face. Heck, he's going as far as drafting the rules to play by! I find a certain amount of irony in that. And it doesn't work for me.

That confounded bridge? Talk to me about the traffic on either side of the current one. A new twelve laned bridge could magically appear this minute, and traffic wouldn't flow differently. Yes, I know that's part and parcel of new construction, but I prefer to take things a step at a time, evaluate, and then proceed.

There. That's all you get outside my comfort zone ;^)

Drift — November 19, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just out of curiosity I was looking at the meeting notes on the CCC ebsite and this is what the agenda looks like..

Public Hearing: Transportation Improvement Program (TIP): Annual Reviews/Dockets; Fifth Plain Creek
Calendar: BOCC
So I would really like to go and be entertained sorta speking but it looks like just general business... What am i missing?? Should you have to get there early to get a seat??


Haven't seen you post for a while. Hope you are doing OK.. Miss ya...

vanwadreamer — November 19, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Do we have to go there? I will tell you only if you show up to the meeting and defend your con men of their unethical, dishonest actions in front of the microphone for the record.

I dare ya!

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In my opinion, The City is actually ran by Ted Gathe (a hired position). Mr. Gathe plays the roll of Puppet Master. The thing is, he manages to pull it off due to the indolence of the Council, not because he's terribly good in the part.

I've seen it at both Council and Zoning and Planning meetings. To paraphrase Larry Smith, "If that's the City attorney's opinion then I'm not going to dispute the validity of it." (something like that)

In reality, the folks on that panel are to lazy to do their own homework. They rely on the hired help. If the lawyer says so, then by gawd it's gospel!


Altogether now, "Throw the bums out!" ☺

Drift — November 19, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 19, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

Brownies??? Are you sure that's me who made that statement, drift??? If I had, it's been awhile.

Regarding cannabis...I've believed for years that the police have fought a losing battle when it comes to whether or not it should be legalized and felt it was a worthless law in the first place. Like you have pretty much mentioned in the past, alcohol can be more deadly than cannabis, but like alcohol...there should be some kind of regulation on the sale and distribution of cannabis which by itself is not what I perceive as an extreme danger but mixed with alcohol or any other drug can bring on deadly in point, the accident with the yellow Mustang on Columbia Way. The driver admitted the use of cannabis and alcohol together. Now...I'm done outside my little bubble with regards to the discussion of cannabis.

Regarding Mielke...I really have no comment about him. Regarding Madore...he probably feels the other county commissioners are for the most part sleeping on the job and he's so new into Clark County government...he's definitely lookin' ragtag on the job these days. Regarding Stuart...not much to say about him either.

That confounded bridge??? I agree.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 19, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.

I've been asking myself the same question. Seems to me, it's the USUAL players trying to stir up a much ado about nuthin' controversy. They are trying anything and everything they can to cause confusion, mayhem, anger and frustration. Mr. Barnes has been showing up to meetings for quite some time and has had no problems stating his claim as long as he stayed within the parameters of the time the public has a right to speak. Nothing new, there but now he's their poster boy because Senator Benton at the capacity of his county position brought out the "lawsuit" word. Funny, these same people aren't sayin' a damn thing about Mayor Leavitt's threat to Terrence Jeffries on September 28th of this year.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.

Defend my con men of their unethical, dishonest actions in front of the microphone for the record???

Care to show the facts? Can you outline the unethical and dishonest action which is in violation of local, state, and national laws??? And please provide the actual violation as written in law?

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And what makes you think I'm supporting any "con men?"

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — November 19, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.

It’s about the citizen’s comment time. The Madore and Benton haters are planning on showing up in force, and will no doubt have plenty to say about Benton’s threat to file a libel lawsuit against Mr. Barnes. The commissioners will not allow disparaging comments to be made, by name, about a public employee, which Mr. Benton is, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Goldenoldie is correct in pointing out the double standard here, in that the Columbian, and others are making a big deal out of Benton’s actions, but are silent on Leavitt’s own threat to file a lawsuit against Mr. Jeffries. Funny thing is, well not all that funny, that Mayor Leavit is planning on being at tonight’s commssioner meeting in support of Ed Barnes. Did I say that Leavitt has also threatened a citizen with a libel lawsuit?

The partisanship shown by the Columbian in these matters is disgusting. Considering the pro lite rail stance of the Columbian, and considering how instrumental Benton and Madore have been as lite rail opponents, it not a stretch to see a connection.

(That scene from Sparticus is great. One of the best ever.)

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

in that the Columbian, and others are making a big deal out of Benton’s actions, but are silent on Leavitt’s own threat to file a lawsuit against Mr. Jeffries.

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 11:01 a.m

Hypocrisy at it's finest

ELISI — November 19, 2013 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Arguing with you gives a migraine its definition. Same with Elisi. You two or are the same "dropped" at the same time from you know where...

If Madonis has done something illegal, he would be in Jail already Dumb-A!

He is smart enough to to in plain view to break it but I bet you dollars to donuts tha if you look at his books, he is a crook and made his wealth because of it. The inclinometer has nothing to do with it, it is the tax breaks and avoidance that made him rich.

Ethics and honesty are "supreme values" lady. Something you may not understand but are a must for society to remain civil, otherwise it is the end of civility and the beginning of war. What you are witnessing here is the prelude to war, a local civil war. Madonis is pushing it and hard. He has tarnished this community and wasted huge sums of money in this wheel spinning.

Still, no jobs, cronyism, return of the development fees give away to the County coffers, but that is above your head, obviously.

I am done talking to you. You try to play devil's advocate with no success and are a big waste of everybody's time. Honesty, decency and ethics are not on yours or your clone Elisi's vocabulary nor is pointing fingers at others justify or excuse the behavior of these con men that you protect.

Is my cake baked yet?

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn-dali I agree with you. I know Terry Jeffries and his family pretty well. When he got his letter from Leavitt he was not going to make a big deal out of it. I still think he feels that way. I don't see how Leavitt can make a show at the meeting without getting egg on his face. It would be better for him to just stay away.I wish I could make this meeting but I have prior commitments. I am going to try to watch what I can. Manthou gave us internet access. I also think it would be in everyones best interest if Benton were to resign. Madore should just admit he made a mistake and move on to better things.

timerick — November 19, 2013 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The three stooges must resign. There will be no rest until that happens. We are done with cronyism and corruption. We are done. Clark County will shine as soon as the crooks leave the Public Service Building. What ever it takes!

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't see how Leavitt can make a show at the meeting without getting egg on his face. -- timerick — November 19, 2013 at 11:53 a.m.

He can do this, timerick, because the Columbian will look the other way.

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of which; goldenoldie mentioned a Bob Koski. Manthou mentioned Mr. Koski some time ago. Apparently, he was also threatened (by the Coumbian) with a slander/libel lawsuit? Just what was that all about? Anyone?

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn-dalai a while back when the C switched to face book there was a few posters that got banned from posting. One I believe was Bob Koski and I believe one of our basement dwellers was also banned. The one I remember the most was a fellow named Allen he ripped in to Moeller almost every day. The C at that time was on Moellers side. I think they still are. You have to be careful on the face book side you can't take the C to task or you will be escorted out. When yours is the only game in town you can make the rules. Ask Andera Damewood.

timerick — November 19, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: From my recollection, Mr. Koski was "encouraged" to shut down his blog by a legal threat from The C. He was accused of cutting and pasting large portions of Columbian articles and that was, I think, the ostensible reason the C used to muzzle him.

The Columbian's attorney is highly skilled, a leader in the US, heads above anyone local. He does play hardball and citizen bloggers don't stand a chance, I believe, against his experience and skill.

Koski still posts comments on Oregonlive as "Chieftan." His avatar is a cute red fez cap.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One of the items on the board time agenda tomorrow is this:

2.2 CRC Record of Decision Challenge Lawsuit

Anyone know what that's about?

I'm actually going to attend our little county comedy show/public hearing tonight. Any predictions? Is there some sort of secret "forum dweller" signal to use? How big of a flask might be necessary?

pfaffmachine — November 19, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

AGAIN fleabag, I post what I said last week..

"The only thing you do is criticize others. What do you have to bring to the table buy your fugly face?

Have you ever stood against corruption? Hell no you obese blob!"

Hmm Best run to a mirror.. Checking over every days posting from you and all that is in them is criticism. Criticism of elected officials that YOU have no right to have a say about! You don't vote in this state, since you have made it VERY clear you do not live here several time in the past. Try critiquing your own state, hell there's plenty to go ballistic about from the crappy schools, over taxing the people, shootings, murders, rapes, to trying to cram LR down our throats over here.
And..criticism of other posters that do not salivate at your every syllable.
As I said once before IF you are voting in this state and not living IN this state that is voters fraud, punishable by law. Don't give the old routine of yours that you own property here, so what! Many people OWN property in other states but do not vote in those states cause they don't reside full time in those states.

Only people that are fugly on the inside, do as you do. You troll on here just to stir people up period. You can't take anyone criticizing or even poking a little fun at you. People like you that do nothing but troll on the net and stir the chit, to get an adrenaline rush, cause you can't get it any other way.

As far as what I do, non-ya business. Why sit on this forum or any other and complain? I'm a "doer" not a "complainer". Complaining does nothing but give everyone a splitting headache. Just cause you don't know my face, or name doesn't mean I don't attend meeting or that I don't speak up at the meetings, send emails, or make phone calls.

So go crawl back under the bridge troll find someone else, another forum to practice your trolling.

ELISI — November 15, 2013 at 5:36 p.m

Show me ONE time, just ONE time on here where I support ANY of those elected at city hall from the mayor to the commissioners! Show me troll where, where have I supported them??? You can't cause I have never said I ever have TROLL! I give everyone a chance, no matter elected or appointed or hired. They get a chance to at least prove themselves.
Is it hypocrisy the way this paper is going after Benton v the way they handled the Leavitt/Jeffries, or how about how they handled the Jim Jack story.. you bet it is! What do have to say about it? NOTHING! So I can ask WHICH con men ARE YOU supporting?
Back under the bridge troll!

ELISI — November 19, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There will be name badges that say "Ed Barnes". Some are making signs. Rules from county were prepared and distributed so you can't block anyone's view with signs, etc. Did you know that a public mtg can be shut down by majority vote?
Did you see this yesterday. Benton sent this to a local citizen.

On 11/18/13, Benton, Don wrote:
> Michael,
> Clearly from the content in your email, you have been grossly
> misinformed about my mission here at Clark County and the process by
> which I was hired. I welcome the opportunity to meet you personally and
> discuss whatever is on your mind. Even if you miss your chance to
> discuss what I consider a personal matter with my employer, I will make
> time on my calendar for you. I want to be sure you have ample
> opportunity to be heard and to answer any questions you may have and to
> correct the misinformation you have been given. My direct line is
> 397-2121X5358 and my office is on the first floor. Please drop in
> anytime. I normally work 9 to 10 hrs. a day, so will likely still be in
> my office when you arrive. Come a bit early and we will have plenty of
> time to get you on your way up to the board meeting so you won't miss
> your chance to be heard. Please give me or my assistant , Susan, a ring
> to let us know you will be by.
> Thanks and looking forward to seeing you,
> Don
> Don
> Don Benton
> Director, Environmental Services Department
> 360-397-2121 extension 5358

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here is a link to the 2011 CRC Record of Decision:

Here is a link to an article about a law professor, on behalf of an environmental group, who challenged the legality of the record of decision:

A few months later, the same groups above filed the lawsuit:

My guess is that this is what it refers to, unless there has been a new one.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: That letter from Benton above is infinitely nicer than the one I received, which is now in the hands of Anita Largent's attorney. Public record, afterall:)

Don't meet with him unless you bring a witness along. Ask him if you can record the meeting, if you do go.

He works 9-10 hours a day? Why did he put that in there, unless it was to impress or play the martyr? This guy has gotten advice to tone down his temper (which he decidedly did NOT with me).

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: I want to add that I truly don't think the C was trying to file defamation or shut down free speech with Koski's blog. It was a technical issue having to do with copyright law. Koski was asked to link to articles and not copy-and-paste.

Columbian's attorney is a huge free speech advocate. It is almost impossible to win a defamation case in this state, thanks to his advocacy. You can pretty much say anything if it is your opinion and especially if it is about a public figure, as it should be in this country.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

::::: Nicepuppy seriously looking for Advil or Aspirin. Elisi wants to give these crooks con men a chance....:::

Are you that dumb or you have not understood what they have done?

GoldenDumbest and Elisi are one, they just split for convenience.....

Give the con men a chance. Make them loot the place. Make them pollute the place. Make them destroy the little dignity this town has left.

Go to hell binary being...nonsense blob!

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou: I think you're right about why the Columbian went after Mr. Koski. In several ways, copyright law is similar to trademark law in that you have to vigorously defend your rights or risk losing them altogether.

JohnK — November 19, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- That letter is on the FB page for Clark County Citizens for Good Governance.

This is the reply to Benton:

Shea Michael Anderson
The folllowing is a surprise email communication I received last night from Director Benton, and my reply to him, the BOCC, and County legal staff (I hope Jim Fairgrieve is the right person here). I'm actually a little shocked Benton would sally forth and comment so openly about legal issues he and the County are involved in...but maybe I should be numb instead.

MY REPLY comes first, then Benton's original email. Folks affiliated with those investigating the County on said issues, please feel free to use this as public record for your own research needs:

Director Benton,

Firstly, my first name is Shea (pronounced like "Shea Stadium" or "shea butter".

Secondly, I am not even going to dignify your email with a response, except to note that it seems inadvisable to be sending any County resident communications that bear upon legal issues you, your Department, the BOCC, and the County as a whole find themselves in. Per the Clark County Prosecuting Attorney, Clark County Human Resources, (cc'ed on this email) and Commissioner Mielke's own information regarding matters allowable for public comment, I would suggest a standard "no comment", rather than opening up about matters legal and confidential.

In closing, I've heard "on the ground" complaints from not just one but several employees I know personally whom you oversee in your position as DES Director, and I've also heard from colleagues of yours in Olympia who attest to your tendency to get yourself in hot water. I also read The Columbian, and talk to folks in Clark County who are familiar with County governmental issues over the years. I only say this to make the point that I am not at all "uninformed" when it comes to matters involving your actions, both personally, as DES Director, and as State Senator. I just don't see eye-to-eye with you - something entirely different.

Thank you,

Shea Michael Anderson

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK @ 2:06 PM: Thanks for confirming. That was how I remembered it.

langenthal @ 2:08 PM: Oh, I misunderstood and thought you wrote the letter. Good to know the author will not be taking Benton up on the meet and greet. I'd rather chew rusty nails myself.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.
manthou — November 19, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.

Manthou, quite some time ago, I quoted and then provided links to something or another. As I had done before, and as many in this forum had done before, even frequently. Much more frequently than I. Maybe four or five paragraphs. Our dearly departed basil, suggested that I was close to copyright infringement. Quite strange, considering how frequently, basil and others, would quote, sometimes at length, from their own sources. You can imagine that whatever it was I was discussing, was not to basil’s liking. I looked into that a little, and found that copyright laws also extend to the internet. I’d been thinking of things in terms of public domain when items hit the internet, including published newspaper accounts. Yes, there’s a good reason for protecting proprietary publications, just like protecting author’s work’s, but I hadn’t really thought about newspapers, which serve the need for information dissemination, in quite the same terms, especially since they all have free on line sites. So was Mr. Koski threatened over copyright infringements which would apply equally to all, or was Koski threatened because of political disparagements of the Columbian?

It’s a question of even handedness, and I say again, that the Columbian’s one way street treatment of events is partisan. Considering that the Columbian is mostly the only game in town, they’ve got a lot of leeway to paint things with their own brush.

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi wants to give these crooks con men a chance....:::

Yep I do give everyone a chance, if they mess up, then and only then I "DO" not "complain" about it.

Tell us pukebreath just WHAT did Madore do or say to you that day you supposedly met him at his business that turned you into such a hate filled person bent on destroying another human being? You have spewed hate towards Madore since that day on a daily basis since. Now tonight is the meeting, are you REALLY going to be there pukebreath or are you just counting on watching at your computer then pretend you were there like all the other times? I for one will be there, now run pukebreath, run quick and figure out which one I am.

ELISI — November 19, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.,

Parvobreath, the ONLY reason why you are acquiring a migraine is because you know your game is lame. You know your lies are mounding and you no longer know which way is up or down when it comes to what you say on the forum. Regarding Madore...if you have NO facts to substantiate your claim, then like I'd said before...your claim is as hollow as your cranium.

And your comment regarding Mister Madore's realize that's exactly the type of comment that Mayor Leavitt has threatened Mr. Jeffries with, right...and Mister Madore could take you down IF he had it in his agenda to do so. So what is the reasoning behind your blind hatred for the guy since you visited his company???

So to divulge what you have PHYSICALLY done in your lifetime to make Clark County a better place??? I'm still waiting.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, just to change the subject a little....... cause we ALL need it.

Have you guys seen the lawsuit from Jeannie Harris to Ron Onslow? Seriously? A friggin NERF ball caused a detached retina? And it wasn't even thrown AT her? I don't think so. If it was that loose to begin with, a good sneeze could have knocked it loose. She says she has had SEVEN surgeries and it still isn't right. My response, she isn't right either. I'm sorry for her but it isn't his fault, she's just looking for a scapegoat and a paycheck.

hawkeye — November 19, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai @ 2:28 PM. Good points. As to your last question, first paragraph, maybe you would have an opportunity to ask Bob Koski that question directly someday.

Powerful people and institutions sometimes use an official, legal reason as a cover for a more sinister, self-serving one, as you well-know. None of us were privy to The Columbian's collective inner thoughts, so who knows what the real motivation was. I do know that Koski got under the skin of some Columbian staffers, much the same way Kelly Hinton and Lew Waters do.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't have a problem with the Columbian singling out anyone. But lets be fair and include our mayor. He made the same threat to Terry Jeffries.

timerick — November 18, 2013 at 9:24 p.m.

Sorry, so many posts today...someone else may have mentioned this, but Leavitt pointed specifically to his employment with PBS in the email to Jefferies. While I'm no lawyer, having private employment impacted by public statements, printed or spoken, has something to do with libel. Not sure how it works. If stating lawyers were watching can be taken as 'threatening', I don't know. He did use a city email account, I think, which seems to be a hot point for some.

Benton however is not employed in the private sector regarding the job in question nor his threat to sue. Both his county and state jobs are in the public realm, and both his pays comes through tax revenue.

Anybody else know how this works?

jacjak — November 19, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I do not understand why multiple individuals would place a sticker on their chests, stating "I am Ed Barnes." Yeah, it's supposed to show some sort of solidarity...much like union members do at Rep. Moeller's community room meetings...

But in my case, I would want to be identified as individual, not someone else just because he says what is on his mind.

Hmm...Union Members with a distinct rancor of loud and raucous behavior... unnecessary hoots and hollers even when the rules of participation were clearly stated to refrain from such behavior... Sounds familiar. We'll have to see tonight if that happens.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just reading these comments.., tempers, tempers today. Come on, people, take it down a notch.
I, for one, learned lots here today. Nice to get such good background information on our local yokels in government.
See some of you tonight?

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, I sincerely hope the meeting tonight is somewhat dignified. Are we all forgetting that this is supposed to be for county business? Having said that, I am curious as to how many stickers there will be.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 19, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.

Stress-relief balls are actually a bit harder than a typical Nerf, even though some Nerf balls have a plastic coating (the football, basketball, baseball, soccer ball combinations for instance). She was hit on the side of the head at the region of the temple. This is a credible injury. Whether or not she was predisposed to this type of injury is baseless. She has a good case.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere --- People are gathering at 5:30. Don't forget to sign in if you are going to speak. Sounds like several are bringing name tags and Sharpie pens.

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 1:45 p.m.: Thanks for the links! I wasn't sure if one or two of our commissioners had plans for the county to do some litigating, especially after (IIRC, which I might not) Mr. Madore announced on his FB page a few weeks ago that something big was in the works.

On a side note, I'm curious to see if anyone in town for the WSAC annual meeting makes it over to the hearing. Good times!

And yes, that Benton email was revealing. A bit insecure, methinks.

pfaffmachine — November 19, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.

Luvit...I think the people don't have much of a choice as to how to act. If it becomes a circus, I'm sure the commissioners would do something about it.

By the way, I did receive a response from one of the commissioners and he's presented the reasoning behind the park issues rather convincingly...which isn't much of a surprise. His explanation was simple. The taxpayers paid to build the parks. We paid to maintain the parks and then we were forced to pay a fee on top of paying to build and maintain the parks...a double payment of sorts. He did however forward my email to the Director of Public Works who will respond with the information I am seeking. Regarding the Sheriff's office, that question was also answered by the commissioner as he discussed at length, the needs of the CCSO and encouraged the Sheriff to work with his staff to lay out a plan that can be discussed at length with the budget manager....and are working towards a plan of a debt-free future with the CCSO that entails funding for necessary functions including capital expenses in the manner of county jail improvements and precinct improvements as well as effective policing. Encouraging information.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

Manthou, your suggestion of me asking Mr. Koski about this is somewhat of a non sequitur, as I don’t know Koski and am unlikley to ever meet him. I’m not seeing why you make such a comment. Aside from that, asking Mr. Koski about his thoughts on his run in with the Columbian, would be nothing more than asking the opinion of any personally involved individual, and would resolve nothing. Sort of like asking Mayor Leavitt his thoughts on why he’s referred to as Liar Leavitt.

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, as you can see in my post to luvithere, I mentioned the response I received. Although the information was important, I am still seeking other information regarding the supposed increase in crime rates in our public parks AFTER the fees were dropped. Honestly, I don't see how $2 or $3 per vehicle makes a huge difference when it comes to the crime element. I believe it was there before and our current economic times in the county are playing a huge role in the increase of crime throughout the county...where it exists.

I want to thank you again for encouraging me to contact CCSO. I am actually going beyond that in order to obtain the information I seek.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also manthou, I noticed that quite often, you bring up issues tied in with the Columbian and legalities when it comes to freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Either (my feeble assumptions...8)) you find studying up in law as a hobby or it is something a little bird told you...possibly???

Wherever you gain your's an interesting read!!!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai @ 3:18 PM: Nothing sinister or hidden in my agenda in replying to you. Just trying to engage in civil conversation. If something I wrote offended you, it was unintentional. I truly look forward to the day you can accept dialogue with me on here as intended with good will.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Are you done with your tantrum?

Let's get something straight here....that I choose not to answer your diatribe, does not mean that you caught me, or that you are right. I just think that is a waste of time. You accuse me of this, you accuse me of that, I don't live here, I don't live there, I don't vote here, I don't vote there, I don't own property here, I don't own property there, I haven't done this or done that, etc. Lady you are nuts! Completely nuts, a tirade junkie not deserving of a response. You are good entertainment, I give you that.

Secondly, that you will print your name on a tag? Are you kidding us? We even offered to pick you up to meet this Madore guy face to face and you backed out. Me thinks that you won't even wear an Ed Barnes tag because you refuse to get out of the house lady, let alone go to a BOCC meeting to defend your boy.

You need to think again. I am not afraid of anybody. I speak the truth. I told you that Barron wasn't was he was built up to be, bam! There you he has amnesia. I told you about Clark County books, bam! Even the state auditors are questioning their books. I told you I would go to the BOCC meeting..bam! There I was in the heat of the disgust with the con men. Madonis doesn't scare me lady. Many citizens and I will face him head on time and time again until he leaves. We don't have communion with crooks. He is hanging himself high on his own, so is Benton and so is Mielke. Mielke even hid his computer records. If that computer is found lady delete or no delete, that guy is in big trouble. Most records can be retrieved and obviously he just did not talk to himself, did he? There are others in it....

Don't ever underestimate the little guy because he is not alone.

I am an Ed Barnes and freaking proud of it, so unlike you that prefers to stay home and bake a cake a sit your pompous behind on your lay-z-boy with your costco 1 ton of bag of popcorn to let others do what you have no courage to do while conveniently watching the show!

Now, get lost lady. You have no backbone to stand for what is right. The whole community sees these guys as con men but not you....oh are the truth holder. Hello? Re-adjust your meds please...too much wheel spinning...your single neuron is firing no where but bouncing in that empty head of yours.

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

WWait, wait, wait a minute here...

I have a question for everyone, ..

Is the Ed Barnes that all of you speak of as a victim of Benton.. the SAME Ed Barnes that threatened a law suit on any elected official of this state if they oppose the CRC earlier this year if any of his family members was hurt in an accident on the I 5 bridge????

ELISI — November 19, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie @ 3:20: Glad you got such a quick response from Clark County! Good for you for making the effort to get your questions answered. I am sure the commissioners are thrilled to be answering questions that do not pertain to the hiring of Don Benton or the mysterious changes in his job description. :) I think we all are hoping to go back to some normal routines, rather than crisis management.

pfaffmachine @ 3:12: I think I read that the Freedom Foundation in Seattle was requesting public documents from the C-Tran Board to consider a lawsuit. Remember their executive session last week? It was to discuss a FOIA request, which could have been the Freedom Foundation one. Maybe that was what David Madore was referring to as an upcoming big deal on his FB page? I guess we will find out tomorrow. I hope that Clark County doesn't intend to file suit against the CRC. Kind of a waste of non-existent funds.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, manthou! I too was surprised that I'd received such a quick response.


ELISI, I believe he is one in the same!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lets use hand signals like your tipping one back after one of the CC speaks, then come back with a tip of your own...I do really want to see how this meeting goes. It should say allott about a few... Lets see if civility rises above anger... I'm thinking not. If nothing else it should beat watching Ohio U beat Kent State.. Heck maybe a hockey game may break out at the meeting..Just sayin

vanwadreamer — November 19, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

:::: Nicepuppy requesting to see the email exchange between Golden and the Commissioner.. I don't buy her BS. I want to see its entirety, the clock is ticking... :::

The ball is on your court lady. Show us every word exchanged, from your questions to the answer.

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I truly look forward to the day you can accept dialogue with me on here as intended with good will. -- manthou — November 19, 2013 at 3:39 p.m.

To me this is quite dumbfounding. There is nothing at all which I have stated which should be construed as uncivil, or boardering on uncivil, or of questioning civility. What goes on here anyway?

My entries are very simply about the Columbian’s partisanship. Something’s really wrong here. And it’s the reason why I’ve decided quite a while ago that political discussion ends up being futile. I’d have been gone long ago, but I’ve found that I’m fond of beating my head agains the wall. Shame on me. I’ve long maintained that the Left is significantly based on emotions. Absolutely stunning.

kn_dalai — November 19, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 3:39 p.m.

Your sexist remarks doesn't fare well with the female half of the forum members. You're scoring a big ZERO for credibility.

I will not "get lost" as you say, bubba and I will NOT put Ed Barnes' name on a tag on my chest. I am NOT a follower. I choose my own path.

You said you were at the BOCC meeting...PROVE IT!!! Saying you were there and actually being there are two different things, Parvobreath. Did you speak up at the microphone? Well, DID YOU??? Yeah...I thought not, LIAR.

I refused to ride with strangers the one day you had your falling out with Madore. I didn't know you from the man in the moon. I'd be an idiot if I'd accepted any offer from the likes of you, bubs. Besides, he was open to other visits IF people were curious. I for one was not curious. End of story.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 3.50pm: Thanks -- that makes sense. If Madore wants to sue, fine with me. Just don't use the ever-shrinking county resources to do so. Sigh.

vanwadreamer at 3.54pm: Ha, love it! And oh my, if I owned any hockey gear, I'd wear it.

pfaffmachine — November 19, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vandreamer, it would be much better if we could tip back if there were a little something good to drink.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Your sexist remarks DON'T fare well with the female half..."

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

So your response was from Madore and you bought it hook, line and sinker. Change your name to GullibleFish. And the fee was $5. Get it right.

hawkeye — November 19, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So why does the "obvious" not get challenged by our investigators and County executives as this poster points out?

"Alex Reinhold · Top Commenter · Battle Ground, Washington
was altered on Clark County’s website in September, and county officials are currently working to figure out why that occurred.>>

Wait a minute someone from the county changed a job description and the County now doesn't know why or how? Instead of worrying about integrity how they focus on competence? The website was changed because the person in charge of the website made the changes, DUH. If you need more ask the web person who gave them the go ahead to make the changes and go ask that person. Mystery solved.
Reply ·
· 21 minutes ago"

Because they think that we are that stupid! That is why?


Somebody is authorized to use the tools that the IT guy has in order to write content to Clark County's website.

Come on people, this is so basic, this issue could be solved in 5 minutes. Fezz up, pack your crap and leave the building!

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GD on tantrum mode again.....

Give her time to land....

No email exchange with the commissioner, no credibility...

As simple as that...the ball is in your court...

Nothing sexist but baking a hey, I probably bake a better cake and I am not complaining of sexism. Ha!

The email please MS. Charlatan?

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. you can find out my real name??? Forget you, Parvobreath! I didn't reveal who I was before and I'm not about to now. I've openly shared main points of the email and am anxiously awaiting hearing from the Director of Public Works...or their assistant. I am also attempting to gather crime stats for the past 12 months at the local parks...just to get an idea if there is an actual pattern in increased crime since the removal of the $2 or $3 parks fee. I said I will share the information I gathered when it becomes available.

You think it's a lie, that's your paranoid problem, Trolling Shill.

What have I done for Clark County???

I was one of several who took many physically-demanding hours to preserve Salmon Creek's watershed which included rescue of many Northwest Native plants at a construction site in Portland, then hauling them to prepare for planting and planting of shorelines to prevent needless erosion, improving water purity.

I was the one who acted swiftly in our neighborhood near a public elementary school and hounded the county till they installed a signal light where stop signs once stood in order to prevent multiple accidents and to eliminate needless pedestrian deaths.

I fought with the county to add a center turn lane, bike lanes and sidewalks on the main street near my home in order to reduce traffic congestion and increase pedestrian safety.

I worked in tandem with another member of my neighborhood to spearhead our neighborhood crime prevention program which to this day has paid off tremendously in favor of the members of the neighborhood.

I sat down and discussed at length with Eric Holmes regarding the Waterfront Project and provided some features I felt would be a positive attribute to our community without including light rail...including accessibility of floating vehicular traffic on the river and possible exciting future events for the city. Some of my ideas were implemented into the plan.

I have done my darnedest (and the fight continues) to see to it the politicians and public officials of Oregon and Washington (and at the Federal level) would take into consideration what I had to say about the Columbia River Crossing...taking partial credit alongside my fellow citizens who refuse to allow special interests to control the interstate bridge improvements to suit their selfish needs.

AND... this is only partially what I've done to improve life in Clark County...even if to some, it seems small...but a little bit goes a long, long way.

At least I've done something proactively. So 'bout you???

What have you done publicly to improve livability in Clark County???

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 19, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.

Not all parks fees were $5, Parvo. I DID get it right. You might be talking about your boat launch fees.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops...sorry Hawkeye, you're not Parvobreath. You're the Hawk. Either way, I believe it was boat launch fees that were $5. Once, the state parks fee was $5, then it was changed to the current $10 day fee...aka Discovery pass.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And hawkeye...I shared what was said. Of course you should know me by now that I expect verification of statements by people and commissioners are no different...hence my reasoning for pursuing more information not only by the commissioners, but by the director of public works and the CCSO. This inquiring mind WANTS to know.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal's time to get ready for the meeting! See ya boyz and girlz!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am off also. See you all there

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

:::: Nicepuppy laughing his a$$ off, oh man, cast, retrieve, cast...retrieve...cast retrieve some a nut case GD is.... ::::::

No email, no credibility, you can erase your name...who cares...

On my way to a very important mission...

nicepuppy — November 19, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok, I am sitting here with my Ed sticker. Where de forum crowd?

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I’ve long maintained that the Left is significantly based on emotions. Absolutely stunning."

apparently you're late to the show. correct me if I'm wrong, this "stunning" thing you've learned is based on what? I think it's based on BS. Never seen or heard of a right(or left)-wing nut puking out political, economic, or social nonsense based on an ideology which is, in essence, an opinion? Son, that's why chit doesn't work, we politicize everything, then use the so-called "experts" that support that ideology, and it goes both ways. Don't think so, simply check out the partisianship nonsence right here. The folks that discuss Clark Co politics in a VERY civil manner here (Manthou, Timerick, these folks) don't dwell on that stuff much and therefore their comments are worth reading. The pup & GO, well not so much.

Happy to say we recently moved out of clark co to Cowlitz co, you can have Clark Co. When I was building up to and including 2005, never saw or imagined such a cluster-duck. I've got plot plans the Comm Dev idiots marked up themselves, and two weeks later, wouldn't issue permits because they couldn't find the roads we'd shown them on THEIR friggin' map. When I was asked "who marked that up?" I replied, "You did." Go Clark Co! The ineptitude I witnessed is astounding.

mrd — November 19, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ok then, me first as I had to leave the infamous hearing early. That was....well.
Will not comment much on the commenters but... Poor Carolyn Crain. That was just sad, very sad.
However, I wanted to relay a few things that happened right before the meeting started in the back of the room.i was sitting next to this woman who offered me an Ed sticker and also handed out a flyer ( strongly worded one re free speech). This couple sits down behind us, she asked them if they wanted a sticker and the man responded in the negative, saying a few people with brains were in the room. Got a bit nasty then. I stayed out of it.

Next, this somewhat upset and anxious woman walks up and greets this couple behind us, saying that she would need a shower after the meeting what with all the scuzzies in the room and what they were there for. Woman nExt to me asked her why she thought she needed a shower, just to be told a few times to not talk in a private talk. Got a bit nasty again.
The other woman in need of shower then walked away to her seat, and kept shooting some rather nasty looks our way ( I think I got them due to my proximity). Her face, nearly distorted with rage and anxiety. really a somewhat scary sight.

I finally figured out it was Debbie Peterson. Yikes.

Gets better.Lady next to me had her purse under her chair. After she left around the same time as myself, she noticed that her flyers and stickers were all gone from her purse. Seems the couple behind us ( guy with brains, according to himself) took them.

Then we had this other dude (puppy?) in our section who kept clapping, snorting, making sounds, all anti Benton. Somewhat not appropriate and i shushed him a few times. He Got in trouble with Debbie and her friend a couple times. Got a bit loud back there.

Honestly? Seriously? This crap from members of the audience?

Also got a copy of the letter Benton's lawyer sent to Ed. Benton needs a new lawyer. I can't take a lawyer seriously who forgets grammar in an official letter like that. And that is beside the rather silly stuff in the letter itself.

A circus, a complete circus. that's what this county has become

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh dear! Sort of makes one proud... first because 3 commissioners sat and listened to so much, some not so flattering. 2nd, the guy who wanted to 'flay like a fish' was creepy. 3rd, not ever ever use your avatar if it's older than 10 or 15 years! And last, good for all the citizens of Clark County who had the wherewithall to get up in a public forum and say their piece. Power to the people...

jacjak — November 19, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I agree jacjac no matter what side you were on it takes some guts to stand up and speak in front of a crowd along with tv cameras pointed at you. I started watching about 6:30 at home. So I missed the first part. But what was very noticeable to me was the lack of young people. Most everyone I saw was my age or older. we need to think about the rules and laws that we pass. Our younger generation is going to have to live with stuff us old goats throw on their backs. Does not seem right to me.

timerick — November 19, 2013 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, any suggestions as how we can draw young people into taking an active part in local politics?

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hung around outside until the meeting started, but had a prior commitment so couldn't stay for the meeting. Did get to meet Mr. Barnes and he's as nice as everyone says his is.
Got home in time to watch Mr. Sohn threaten to flay Commissioner Stuart like a dead carp. (The guy needs to be watched closely) Stuart handled it well, but since Sohn is a big Madore supporter, Madore should have stepped up and condemned him for threatening physical violence upon a fellow Commissioner.
Didn't catch the name or title, but toward the end of the meeting, a lady, who I understood to be a present or past County HR employee, did a great job explaining the legal consequences and potential costs associated with violating EEO Federal guidelines in hiring Benton.
If she's right, the loss of Federal grant money because of the Benton hiring, will exceed those won by the lady who wasn't given the opportunity to apply for the job.

JohnK — November 19, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow...what an evening...commissioner bashing for sure, tonight! Stuart held himself together...almost flopped a couple of times, but still held himself together. It appears Mielke and Madore both cracked up any time there was bashing against their character.

To begin with...

JohnK, I believe her name was something like Reka Strong (I might have chopped her name up).

Luvit and Timerick...honestly, what young adult wants to get involved in a lawsuit-happy government??? It's not just Benton. It's also's also the's also in other entities all over the place. Most young adults would rather live their lives rather than deal with the likes of our community leadership. The young adults aren't stupid or neglectful. They're smart and witty and can see what is happening and have watched it through their growing years, listening to their parents complaining or waiting for their parents to come home from these types of meetings, listening to what the parents had to say.

I'm wondering...what the stats are with regards to how many kids are going for political science degrees.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just got back from the hearing. Luvithere, I was seated right in front of Jack Davis, on the right as you face the dais, if you know who he is. I had on an "Ed Barnes is Right" shirt. I was on the other side at first, by the windows, when Micheline Doane plopped down next to me and I started hearing all the cootie talk, too. Making fun of Ed Barnes. So I scooted on over to friendlier territory and chatted with Jack Davis and a woman who testified last week. Both are from NYC area, but retired here.

Dick Sohn creeped me out and I decided not to testify, which was one reason, I think, he was videotaping the whole thing: intimidation. What a bully. Threatening to fillet Stuart like a carp. God know where his video will end up.

Overheard a big bald man who I Iater learned was Chris Clifford (Benton's crony hire) who said that the Columbian has been hounding him to write a story about him and he refuses to talk with them. The person then asked, "Are you going to testify tonight?" He said no, that he cannot as a county employee. He seemed pleasant enough, though.

I finally met Lou Brancaccio. He sat in the front row. This has got to be the story that never stops for journalists and editors.

The diversity director (does she still work for Clark County?) absolutely hit it out of the park tonight. Best testimony! She laid into Madore and Mielke about violating EO rules and how CC employees are fearful and deflated. I will go back and watch her again.

nicepuppy: was that you in the bright yellow blazer and bright green shirt? I know you were not the Wiccan guy, right? :)

One last thing: Mielke and Madore made it so much worse for themselves with their silly rationalizations. I kept thinking, Greg Ferguson (Anita Largent's attorney), is having a party watching this. So much to chew on during a deposition. I'll bet he is chomping at the bit to get them under oath.

At the end, Madore waxed eloquent on what a great son Don Benton raised: Eagle scout and all and how hard it is to get them there. So now we know, folks: Don Benton deserves the job because his kids are so honorable. I am sure they are, but WTF?

My twin sons are Eagle Scouts, solid citizens too, so, hey, hand me a plumb job, David.

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal I called was going to be a circus...8)))

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 19, 2013 at 9:10 p.m.

Why would you let Dick Sohn intimidate you??? You should have stood up and been heard!

btw...jacjak, Dick Sohn, the "filet like a carp" comment maker is also the driver who recently acquired notoriety for his "Leavitt Lied" moving billboard.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So who is this Dick Sohn guy?

Btw. My kid Is studying pol sci. There are quite a few of them around who do so.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

""""nicepuppy: was that you in the bright yellow blazer and bright green shirt? I know you were not the Wiccan guy, right? :)""""

lololol...manthou, I was wondering the same thing!!! I doubt if you'll get a straight answer. Remember the last time he claimed he attended???

On another note, I've tuned into the segment about the 5th Plain development plan and am wondering just how they could possibly develop in that area...a highly flood-prone zone just about every winter. If the county allows this development.......E V E R Y SINGLE POTENTIAL HOMEOWNER will either have to pay through the yin yang on flood insurance or won't be able to acquire that flood insurance. And 182nd Avenue at 4th plain is bad enough now. 88th's already difficult to turn left onto Ward Road during peak hours. Ward Road is already screwy with the recent improvements as they call it. With the increased'll be as bad as Andresen Road in 20 years!!! STUPID PLANNING!!!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...and they just approved the 5th Plain Creek the development package...hopefully with some restrictions.

At least the final statements of the commissioners was classy tonight!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:20 p.m.

He's another political loudmouth whose bark is ...well... who knows just what it is, lol.

Your kid...what is their career goal and where are they planning on going after college? Will they stay in Clark County???

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lol, I was also wondering if that flashy dude was our pup. The color clash was so fitting. The loud, snorty guy I mentioned earlier looked a bit too young to be a pup.
Manthou, I THINK I saw you. I was on the other side of the isle. In back. Next time we do the old rosé between lips, the covert type of signal :)

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't care which side you support. You do not sit in a public meeting and tell an elected official you going to filet him like a carp. If this is the type of people that stand up for Mr. Modore, he should distance himself from these types. The guy did more harm to him than good. I didn't vote for Stewart but the man can sure handle a hostile group. He seems to have a good demeanor. Who was the guy in the green jacket towards the end. He could learn a lesson in being civil also. You would think that people over 50 would know how to act in a setting like that. I found most of what I saw as disgusting with a small splash of humor.

timerick — November 19, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have to say one thing for Dick Sohn...he truly nailed it by blaming the issues of the county on the "Establishment." His threats on the other hand...uncalled for and very inappropriate. Yeah...creepy is a good expletive of the guy. Same with the guy in the green shirt and canary yellow blazer. I guess it goes with the territory.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Uh oh, Tim...we're pullin' a Nailingit...posting at the same time.

Speaking of nailingit...I hope Nails is doing okay. (We're thinkin' about ya, Nails!)

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, my kid is not studying anywhere close to home and I doubt she will return here to work. Has her sights set a bit higher. Think east, think big.
Not that she wants to be a politician, mind you. I wouldn't let her anyway. But for some reason she likes policies and security issues. Probably ends up on the hill somewhere.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As I'd suspected, luvit. What young adult in their right mind would want to stay in Clark County??? I wish good luck to your daughter.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere --- Sohn is the one who drove the truck with "Liar" on it during the campaign. He has spoken at other meetings. I seem to recall that he is a gun fanatic too. I get him and Miller mixed up sometimes. Both are tight with DM.

I can't believe the violence in the "fillet" statement.

fillet - to cut (meat or fish) into fillets

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Update on County Public Works Director's office and the maintenance of our county parks - I was informed that staffing or supplies have not changed since the removal of the fees...also...that "some of the parks are maintained by the Greater Clark Park District monies and some of the parks are maintained by the General Fund. A quote - They "are able to fund the GCPD parks maintenance at a higher rate per acre than the General Fund parks since it is a dedicated fund for the district." (Their words, not mine.) I was also informed that there has been no reduction to the funding since 2008 and will not be reduced due to the removal of the parks fees.

I might ask which parks are funded by which program and which park receives little to no funding if anybody is interested.

Oh...and furthermore (that includes you vanwadreamer and hawkeye or anybody else who frequents a county park), if you recognize any safety or maintenance issues at any of the county parks, you need to contact the Director of Public Works to correct the issues. Of course, any activity that warrants the needs of a deputy to respond, call the appropriate authorities. That's what I was advised to do and I urge you to do the same next time you notice anything that is less than optimal. It's our money going into these places and we've got to be the extra eyes!!!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Langenthal. Disturbing that one gets away with physical threats, no matter what side.

Gold, kid loves it here but has decided to leave as she likes it there better, especially for jobs. And let's face it, her kind of job can't be found here. Leaves poor old Mom to make many trips to visit our Capitol, where she usually manages to comment on the stench of power and corruption in the air. But I digress.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I can't believe the violence in the "fillet" statement.

fillet - to cut (meat or fish) into fillets

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 9:49 p.m.

Unless you use the "French" form of the word "filet" as I did...8)))

And I was quite wrong of the man, even if he did try to say..."not literally." Bad mistake by the guy.

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 9:57 p.m.

Oh how we would long for our offspring to remain close to home...but they spread their wings and want to fly the coop. She's going for her dream and that says a lot about the character of her parent(s). You should be very proud of her...and think of those wonderful reunions you will have!!!

my final comment for the evening. My eyes want to close...long day...;))

Have a great evening!

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere I was stationed at Fort Belvore in 1969 just after the riots in DC. Virginia was ok but we all hated DC. The town away from the Capitol was dirty and very nasty. At that time you had to walk in groups and try to not be out at dark. I am sure it has changed a lot since then, But that is the way I remember it.

timerick — November 19, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe the yellow jacket was introduced as Jimmy Taylor. I am assuming he is Jimmy T who ran for freeholder. Erik confirmed that on Twitter.

I think Mr Miller was wearing green jacket and spoke towards end. His wife is DM's personal assistant at Commission.

Did anyone get the name of the man who spoke towards the end and asked if DM knew Swaggart or Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker? I have wondered that too since their time at TBN must have overlapped. However, since DM doesn't show any dates, it's hard to determine.

The man who offered to give a Wiccan prayer is the one who shared the letter from Benton that I shared here last night.

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Looks like half the basement went or listened.
What happened to our fearless leader, the mutt? Did he get lost?
Any Vespa spotted heading out of town?
Ok, that made me laugh. vroom, vroom.

Kidding, Kitty, don't lash out at me in the morning.

Timerick, I think away from the main part of DC and some really nice neighborhoods, DC is still like that. Lots of poverty and misery next to all the marble. hm, sounds like so many of our big cities actually.

luvithere — November 19, 2013 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wash DC -

If you make enough, I hear the Georgetown area is still a nice place to live. Otherwise, a long commute is probably in order.

I lived across the river in Arlington from '65-'68, and was there for the '68 riots after King was murdered. Segregation was still the order of the day, and you could be in entirely different worlds after traveling a few blocks. We could cross the Key Bridge into Georgetown and head "up" past the reservoir to Falls Creek Park with no problem. The main Capitol Bldg area, with all the museums and other places to visit, was also a blast - lots of things to see, protests, street musicians, etc, etc. But it was best for White Boy to stay out of Southwest at night, and to go into Southeast (across the Anacostia) would have been a very stupid thing to do. I lived in the Clarendon section of Arlington - a mile or so due east of Fort Myer. It was nice then, but drop south below Arlington Blvd and things were pretty run down. I was at Arlington Hall Station briefly in '82 and checked the old neighborhood out - it was starting to get a little seedy. I was at a school at Fort Belvoir in '92 - The whole area around Arlington seemed kind of blaah. Most people I knew assigned there made a long commute - from Fairfax County in VA or from somewhere beyond Silver Springs in MD. Anywhere in closer that was halfway nice was also outrageously expensive.

roger — November 20, 2013 at 5:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 19, 2013 at 10:13 p.m.

The person in question asking Madore's association with Bakker and Swaggert...possibly Robin White or Jack Price???

Chuck Miller was on right after Dick Sohn...the carp man. Jimmy T is listed as James Taylor on the Freeholder ballot of November 5th.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was unavoidably detained over in P-Town last night and couldn't make it. Dammit all anyway.

I was home so late I was just going to watch it today. You all who went there or watched the BIG show were very informative about some of the characters and their antics.

Sometimes I wonder if the big bad doggy is secretly Dick Sohn and just loves to shake it up.Just a joke son, don't get upset. Just havin' a little fun.

I was thinking about Don and his son, a newly minted Eagle Scout. One of the lines in the oath says "morally straight." Was Don ever a boy scout? Congratulations to the boy. I hope he doesn't follow in his daddy's footsteps though.

JohnCasey — November 20, 2013 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, things haven't changed that much in DC. Kiddo worked with school district there last two years while a student. Took metro and then was escorted to work from there as it was in the evening. Worked with the kids while parents got their parenting instructions. free dinner for all. Says its the parents that need work. the free dinner says it all. still segregated, still poor, still uneducated. It's the two faces of DC. Great universities, bad public schools. Fantastic place to visit around the tourist/ gov area, but watch out for most of the rest. And yes, great neighborhoods if you can afford them. good thing they have the metro system. It really works there. I even took a bus to visit the Cathedral and was pleasantly surprised by the experience.

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey, I think the forum dawg was a no show. If he'd stood up to say something, he would have plastered it all over the forum like he'd just won the lottery. He never committed himself by saying he'd be showing. He throws out the typical banter of a paid troll shill...can say the right words to insight anger...even tries to convince others to show...but like usual...he was a no show...not even a participant in the discussion after the meeting. He thinks he accomplished what he set out to do...failed attempt.

What's that tell ya about character of the forum dawg. I've asked him several times...what he has done physically in order to make Clark County a more livable community...silence. He can talk the talk but he can't walk the walk.

Credibility of the forum dawg = 0%

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Where is the Pup?

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning, luvit. I laughed heartily at your comment last night @10:31 pm. I pictured the person in a speckled Halloween hound costume, jumpin' on his vespa, weavin' all over the place with the back tire almost flat (because of the costume)...trying to squeal his tire and pop wheelies as he left the meeting in a huff.

Talk about a graphic visual!!! Must be my creative writing at full capacity this morning!!!

All in jest of course, all in jest.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 6:36 a.m.

Maybe he's getting his rabies shot or finally getting care for his parvobreath...(oopsie)

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I doubt he made it to the meeting, as otherwise he would have plenty to say by now. Wonder what excuse will be?
Ok, cat, where art thou?

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was at the airport picking up. Sounds like I missed a fun time. I'll have to watch the re-runs.

GO, I love how you just take everything the County tells you at face value. Remember, when money comes out of the "general fund" it probably is taking away funds from something else, especially when that fund is much smaller than usual due to less input.

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I watched some of the public comments - Mostly very predictable - Either praise for or criticism of the bad guys. Mielke is very good at saying a lot and nothing at the same time - it's like he's just playing at being confused. And I notice there's some sort of attempt at a working relationship between him and Stuart that's completely lacking with Madore.

Who was the guy with the white hair/ponytail? One of the few presentations that was to the point and well presented.

There was someone at the end who had rehearsed a dramatic presentation (not sure if yellow jacket or someone else) - He upstaged Deb Peterson for playing the righteous indignation card.

Wiccan prayer guy - Is he the same person with the plant store who used to live in Seattle? Ran for office up there and was too far to the fringes for anyone?

I'm thinking selling tickets would be in order for the public comments.

I shut down when Madore started in on what we'd just witnessed being the American way.

roger — November 20, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

Actually hawkeye, I'm just stating what the people said to me. As I've said before, I want the facts and general statements aren't enough. You probably didn't notice part of my comment @9:57pm when I said "I might ask which parks are funded by which program and which park receives little to no funding if anybody is interested." That left the door open for anybody who wanted me to ask any pertinent questions since I've been able to acquire rapid results yesterday. Sounds like you'd like to know what percentage of the County's General Fund is going towards the public parks. If you want me to ask...I will.

Nice attempt at a negative hit, though.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Margaret Tweet brought up an interesting comment last night about Commissioner Steve Stuart. It was regarding $20,000 in donations by Waste Connections. Anybody know anything about that? I'm hoping she had good reason to call out the Commissioner regarding special interests.

And the plot thickens....

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Informative conversation on here, all! Enjoyed reading all your perspectives on the meeting last night, and more.

For me, becoming involved by attending local government meetings has introduced many new and interesting people in my life. Just like I see here on the Forum, engaged citizens are hard sells and good advocates.

No matter where you stand or what you support or oppose, your voice and pen is your power. Great job of sharing and engaging and collaborating, all. More, please. :)

Speaking of engagement: Was Lou B holding one of the C's "Don't Do Stupid Stuff" mugs in his hands in the front row last night? I think I saw it. He has shown up to two recent BOCC meetings in their entirety now in a row. That provides a strong visual message, too, to the commissioners.

The more eyes and ears on our government, the more honest it is.

Yay, Team!

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Studying PDC reports provide a wealth of information and Margaret has honed in on Democratic donation sources. I haven't had time myself to dig there to confirm.

It is all about collaborating and sharing info. Data-driven complaints always get my attention. Emotion and anecdote help with public testimony, but, if there is no data behind it, it fizzles.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

Good mornin', manthou. What a pleasant write you share!!! I hear through the grapevine that it was Lou holding and turning his cup while making little hand signals as well. 'bout it? Was that you in the front with the dime store coffee mug??? Was it empty or full???

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

Thanks, manthou. I'll be doing a bit of research to see if there is anything...including attachments to any pet projects.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Hand signals? I hope they were not the kind I felt like flashing last night when Mielke kept digging a deeper hole for himself and the county with his vacuous rationalizations. I actually restrained from THAT one, though, and mimed a zipping motion across my lips:)

Rekah Strong now works for United Way of Columbia-Willamette. What a powerful testimony she gave last night, clearly impressive.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

lol, manthou...I'll ask. Regarding Rekah Strong...I agree. She did put a good argument on the table, but the State Attorney General will have the final say. We'll have to keep posted on that one.

I checked into the information regarding the ~$20,000 paid to Steve Stuart...and as I'd suspected, it wasn't a lump sum all at once and the donations were from people affiliated WITH Waste Connections. Waste Connections also supported Marc Boldt AND supported the ballot to increase sales tax for C-Tran maintenance and operations. Would you believe the information was available through Lew Waters' site??? I'm sure it's all verifiable. Check the link below and click on "spreadsheet."

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning everyone!

How'd you like the meeting last night? As I read through the comments I notice that someone's is MIA.
Was he there last night or as usual the troll was sitting at home watching via his computer or TV honing up on what to post today?

Funny (well not exactly funny, but you know what I mean) how he accuses others of supporting "the con men" by not showing up at the meetings and speaking.

I found last night meeting really a waste of time. Nothing got resolved, same thing over and over. Two people made an impression on me, the lady from HR and the lady that brought up campaign funds from waste connection.

The guy that took it upon himself to say he and his group are out to filet Stuart open like a carp was disgusting. One does not go into a public meeting with elected personal and throw threats like that. He should have been escorted out.

Now brings me to the one in the green shirt, yellow jacket..have to ask, just where were the men in the little white coats?

Then there is Mr Price..always shows up, nothing really to say, I'm thinking he just wants to get his face on TV.

Oh yes and the guy from the Sierras club, same speech every time just reworded.

ELISI — November 20, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Was Lou B holding one of the C's "Don't Do Stupid Stuff" mugs in his hands in the front row last night? I think I saw it.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

Was not there but watched the whole thing. Yes, camera that showed speakers also picked up those sitting directly behind, and someone wearing jeans had a Stupid Stuff cup. Not sure anything was in it initially, tho it moved up and out of view once or twice. No hand signals tho, whatever that'd be.

Tweet's information about Waste Connection may be relevent or not, don't know. But can't imagine it being any more or less provocative than DeWils and employees. PDC tells who gives what, but what I find more interesting is who has a large show of support with little reported on pdc. I probably sound like M. Yancy, but the freeholder signs were a case in point. Were other funds able to be used for freeholder? I know in investing you can not co-mingle funds, but Pike and maybe some others were on every corner.

jacjak — November 20, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Yeah. I agree. The AG's investigation will help answer so many questions. So grateful it is being investigated by a (supposed) neutral third party. The law is supposed to be blind.

The progress of Anita Largent's tort claim will be revealing, too. We won't be privy to the confidential negotiation details, but, if the County settles before the 60 day deadline, that means they either want to stop the money bleed that a trial would impose or that there is merit to her case and they don't want to go to trial or a little of both. If there is a settlement, it is likely that there will be no admission of wrongdoing.

It is a real advantage for the county to get this wrapped up during the 60 day tort claim timeline. It is much riskier for them to let it expire, face a trial (and all the ugly information it could expose) PLUS the potential unfavorable decision by the AG's office.

I know Mielke keeps mooing, "Our attorneys tell us no laws have been broken, no procedures have been breached….." but that is always the initial line a defendant's attorneys' take, for goodness sake.

Fascinating to watch, at least from my perspective. So much on the line here. Our tax dollars at work, folks, whether we like the necessity for spending them on this issue or not.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: I had not considered the risk that those legislators running for Freeholder might (accidentally?) misuse funds from their state campaigns for Freeholder.

God, there is so much to consider, so many gray and blurry lines that can be crossed, it is exhausting.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks, everyone, for the reports on the BOCC hearing last night.These days I'm happy to see a good turnout for a government-operated meeting, regardless of who's there. It was interesting (cough, Lou) to watch from my perch at the very back of the room, but I did miss the nuances of expression on Mielke's and Stuart's faces (Madore's face was blocked by the training room wall). Rekah Strong's comments were fascinating (and possibly terrifying for the PA's office). I was chatting with someone about elk, heh, when Sohn made his fish remarks, so the resulting hubbub was a mystery until I saw Erik Hidle's tweet.

I'll have to look at the video, but didn't Madore say he learned of Benton's suit by reading about it in the paper? Snort. I know I didn't find out about on couv dot com.

Sorry to miss connecting with our forum family! The glass of rose', or rose'-colored liquid, might be a good idea. And yes, there should be a bar on the 6th floor.

pfaffmachine — November 20, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou...I found out from my contact, that the hand signs Lou appeared to be doing resembled that of a baseball catcher calling a pitch. Guess I'll have to go back and check the video when it comes available to the public, lol.

and Lou Brancaccio...

you ought to practice what you preach. Regarding the meeting...Don't do stupid stuff. Your antics with your coffee mug were quite cheesy in nature!!

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hm, 8.40. No kitty. Still watching the video/audio so he can act like he was there?

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I wouldn't waste a lot of time investigating campaign funding sources from any of the public disclosure sources and expect to find a 'smoking gun.' Sure, it's interesting and informative, but people would have to live under a rock to be surprised to find those doing business with the government are the prime sources of campaign donations.

At a time when the Supreme Court has given corporations and anonymous groups, freedoms previously reserved for actual people, it would take a very stupid...or very ethical...candidate to allow the public disclosure of questionable or embarrassing campaign funds. And that's as true with local candidates of both parties as it is with candidates for State or National office.

JohnK — November 20, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Good food for thought. One less issue to worry about for me, anyway. :)

langenthal: Do you have direct contact with Ron Goodman? I don't FB (yet) so cannot contact him that way. I could not catch him at a moment at the BOCC hearing yesterday where he wasn't in deep discussion with someone else or getting ready to testify.

He has done an amazing job of combing and comparing documents. What he discovered in the job description text and dates was compelling enough to inspire the AG/Vancouver PD investigation. It may lead to nothing, but it was suspicious enough for them to agree to take a deeper peek.

Ron's recent discovery of verbatim semantic similarities between Don Benton's email "application" for the DES Director job and the text changes made to the DES Director job qualifications/description is beyond stunning. A teacher would likely look at the two documents and suspect the latter of plagiarizing the former. Collusion between Benton and Madore/Mielke team? Inquiring minds want to know…...

Anyway, I think Ron should share his latest investigative info with Greg Ferguson, if he has not already done so. It could be nothing, but a deposition or court examination of certain persons under oath could reveal critical information. It provides good questions to probe.

So, langenthal, if you are so inclined, encourage Ron to share his latest research with both the AG in charge of the investigation and Greg Ferguson, Ms. Largent's. Let them decide whether it is nothing or something.

You guys, if this ever goes to trial, I swear, Clark County could fill its General Fund coffers by selling tickets to it (not legal, I know, but they don't seem to care about legalities).

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 20, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.

I'll take your advice into consideration. It was well stated, JohnK. Still...if there is corruption at all levels in the county, it (referencing Ms. Tweet's information provided to Lew Waters) might be a piece of evidence some may consider as credible in order to support their case as long as the donations are true. For me...I've seen enough of the "list" to suit my curiosity. I'll remain neutral on it till all facts are presented...even if my opinion is only the opinion of one.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.

Manthou...Lou could always sell his cheesy coffee mugs at the door and profits could be donated to help our local government become what it should be rather than what it is...8)))

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Brrrrr!!!! It was a chilly 25 degrees on my digital thermometer this morning on our patio!!! November is living up to its typical weather pattern!!! Any bets for snow on the valley floor this winter???

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh where oh where, has our forum dawg gone? Oh where or where can he be???? With his insults and lies and failed deceptive ploys....

Oh where or where can he be????

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

11/19/13 BoCC at 1:00 on Comcast 23

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


About those floodgates......

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie --- I am watching BoCC. I am not seeing any hand signals from Lou B. He is using a mobile device and handling his eyeglasses and the mug.

I am sending this post by manthou again. It includes the PDC address so you can get accurate data for supporters of candidates and issues. I'm waiting to find out who pays off or forgives the $82,100 loans to Vancouver Vitality.

goldie: Studying PDC reports provide a wealth of information and Margaret has honed in on Democratic donation sources. I haven't had time myself to dig there to confirm.

It is all about collaborating and sharing info. Data-driven complaints always get my attention. Emotion and anecdote help with public testimony, but, if there is no data behind it, it fizzles.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

Wishful thinking, perhaps??? Seems he's not alone in his promises -

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 2:40 p.m.

Yes but he didn't promise that on January 3rd the FLOODGATES would open and everybody would have jobs. He told me that on the "C". Inslee wasn't stupid enough to make those kind of promises.

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Big messages come in little packages:

I chuckled today, watching snippets on the BOCC hearing re-run, to see Lou Brancaccio had snagged the best seat in the house for maximum upstage power, which explains his early arrival last night to bag that plumb position. :)

Lou, that little cartoon cup balancing on your knee was tiny, but hands-down the most visible, in-your-face message there, televised to all watching for 2 plus hours straight. Who says newspaper journalists don't understand visual media?

I miei complimenti. Brilliant.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 19, 2013 at 9:57 p.m

Golden - Let me explain why you are incorrect on the park fees/safety in the parks. The CCSO is at a dangerous level due to the lack of Deputies. They need at least 30 full time road Deputies to even bring them to the lowest acceptable level. The park fees are part of the general fund. When they cut the park fees, they cut available funds to go to CCSO. Now since they have cut the park fees what you have is more trouble makers. So now you have families who no longer want to go to the parks because of the people smoking dope, drinking and fighting. With the increase in drinking, etc, you now have a large increase in calls to CCSO which in turn stretches them even thinner going to these calls that were not happening prior. Then you have the M&M; going to CCSO and asking "Please have your Deputies make their presence known more at the parks since there is an increase in complaints/problems at these parks" You then have CCSO saying "not happening, we can't even go to the calls we have" So you can advise people to call the appropriate authorities and they can hope to get a response in the next hour or two. Good luck with that one.

I'm so happy that the drunks can now get into the parks free. I'm sure this was of the utmost importance for the county. Perhaps fund the departments that need it instead.

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.

I'm just the messenger, relaying what I was told.


Hawkeye...should we talk about others who have unfulfilled campaign promises??? Methinks it would take up too much valuable time, but I believe we can agree that at this time, your statement is correct. I think the people of Clark County are tired of waiting, even though it's been how long since Madore has been in office??? Not that I believe DM has some trick up his sleeve to get the jobs rolling, but our very own mayor of Vancouver has been making some promises and has a new excuse that since he was re-elected he will continue to work to improve our local economy. I'm still waiting to see some results on that one as well. In Mayor Leavitt's favor...we don't have least not yet.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.

One more comment...the parks fee wasn't enough to prevent drunks and criminals. It's a false statement just as it is a false statement to claim light rail would bring them to Vancouver.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

I'm having a heck of a time trying to find information on Stuart. Maybe you could direct me to the page with the info??? It would be helpful.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker --- Thanks for spelling it out.

Here's a word for goldenoldie to keep in mind as she does her research:

de·ter·rent diˈtərənt/
a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
synonyms: disincentive, discouragement, damper, curb, check, restraint; More
antonyms: incentive
a nuclear weapon or weapons system regarded as deterring an enemy from attack.
adjective: deterrent
able or intended to deter.
"the deterrent effect of heavy prison sentences"

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Golden - The park fees did prevent much of the drunks and calls to CCSO. They have increased since the fees were waived. If you don't agree just call and speak with CCSO. It's not a false claim.

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker: I am fully on board with Sheriff Lucas' call for more funds and know his department is understaffed. This is not political hyperbole. That makes the job unsafe for his officers and unsafe for the public.

David Madore, on his FB page yesterday, describes having a 90 minute lunch meeting with Sgt. Shane Gardner. In his usually flowery, PR language (he is a master at impression management), he describes all the good things he learned from Sgt. Gardner, in general terms about the jail.

He now wants to feature Sgt. Gardner on a Couv dot com video.

All this will mean nada, if we don't see some real money coming to that department soon.
Also, last night, Reka Strong, former CC employee, warned that the CC Sheriff's office will lose one MILLION dollars MORE if Clark County loses that Equal Opportunity challenge in court. Don't know how that works (Federal dollars removed as punishment?), but here is Reka's testimony last night that states this, in case you missed it:

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- I believe that Ron Goodman has said that he sends his info to the attorney as did Shea Anderson. However, I asked Goodman to visit us here and repeated your request. Check out this job description from Steve Foster at Clark County Citizens for Good Governance:

Job Announcement
Department Director, Clark County Washington

Clark County is seeking candidates to form a pool of applicants from which future director and other leadership positions can be filled.

An application form, printed or online, is not required. Resumes will be accepted. Fudging of qualifications is permitted; there will be no reference checking, background investigations or other vetting of candidates.

Candidates who fail to meet the minimum published qualifications for the job(s) are nonetheless encouraged to apply. Qualifications will be adjusted, post-hire, to accommodate your personal background.

Most positions are full time. However, if you currently have another position the work schedule of your county position will be adjusted to fit your availability. Your pay and benefits, however, will remain calculated on a full-time basis.

Applicants are encouraged to include a cover letter to supplement their resumes. Cover letters should address other relevant considerations such as and should include information about your family, accomplishments of your children “what’s in your heart,” political contributions and affiliations and how you feel about tolls and light rail. The county reserves the right to consider any non job related information in making our selection.

Available positions, including some that may be currently filled, will be offered as they arise. The selection will not be based on any competitive or discrete selection process. Do not worry if perhaps you might not be the “best” candidate. Also, we reserve the right to ignore the pool of candidates and hire others, as circumstances warrant

Clark County Washington. Proud Past. Frightening Future.

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou - Shane is the outreach Sgt so he would be the Deputy to feature but you are correct, it means nothing. If he wants to know about the jail, he should meet with the Sheriff, Chief Evans or the Commanders. Madore is well aware of the state of CCSO. He is just putting on a show. Reka is a class act. She knows what she is talking about. What she is saying is that if the county were to lose the pending lawsuit due to the way Benton was hired, it will come out of the general funds that need to go to CCSO.

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou I was very impressed with Steve Stuart and Ron Goodman. I still am leaning to the right off center but much more of these radical repubs and I may move more to center. They are totally distructive to what it means to be right wing. You never will win anything by being intimidating, vulgar or threating. It will be interesting to see how many Madore can keep in his circle just by using the soft tone of his voice. I for one will not be part of any congregation. He will need to start showing us what real good he can do for the county. I believe he could start by asking for Bentons resignation. But after last night I don't see as happening.

timerick — November 20, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lagenthal @ 4:21 PM: Very clever, coming from the former CC HR Director, no less! I was impressed with Mr. Foster's sense of humor in May, when he initially testified. This type of criticism, coming from former high-level employees like Steve Foster and Rekah Strong, carry so much weight.

Woosker @ 4:32 PM: Thanks for the clarification of why the loss of funds. It could be greater, you know, if the county fails to negotiate a settlement and they must face a jury judgment. I wrote Madore over a week ago about a public safety issue, a trial balloon of sorts. He ignored my email. After I learned that he had met with Sgt. Gardner yesterday, I wrote him again, asking if he had a chance to ask Sgt. Gardner what I had brought to his attention. I think he auto-deletes anything from me because I have been so critical.

timerick @ 4:36 PM: I don't do well with raised vocal tones, threats or intimidation from anyone, either. Physiologically, the higher thinking part of our brain shuts down, we stop listening, and concentrate on protecting ourselves (flight or fight response). When folks figure this out and tone down their hateful rhetoric so people can listen, they may have more people joining with them. I so agree and have asked this directly of Madore and Mielke: ask Benton to resign. I have asked Benton to refuse the job in the first place (a wise politician would have done that) and then I asked him to be the hero in this and step aside. I was thanked for this effort by angry emails from Mielke and Benton. At least I tried and the emails are now in the hands of Anita Largent's lawyer. Hooray for public records!

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Hoping you are out there reading this stuff and that it might be a distraction for you.

Looking forward to your return to the basement. :)

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- from Ron Goodman

Yes, Greg Ferguson has recently received a wealth of data from me. Thank you.

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou - I'm curious what your question was for Madore. Which safety issue?

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.,

I kept reading the comments saying Lou was sending hand signals, and couldn't get where that came from. You pointed out a variation of what I was thinking - Lou knew exactly where the camera was pointing, made a point of snagging the seat behind, and then kept moving his cup around for the world to see. He's doing his best, and succeeding, to replace Pollard's smashed Portland cup as the one we talk about. And you notice how he'd spin it around for all to see, and then go to his phone? Kind of reminded me of an OPB telethon - he was probably taking orders.

roger — November 20, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker @ 5:27 pm: Short version? We are seeing more illicit "Asian (foot) massage" businesses opening up in Clark County because Oregon passed very restrictive, emergency legislation in June 2013 to discourage these illegal businesses. They are coming over here, across the river more, because WA's legislation is more lax. Human trafficking of immigrant women who came over here thinking they were getting a legitimate job. Neighborhoods are hoping CC and their cities in CC can shore up some local ordinances to help law enforcement. Complicated issue that will take a long time and many people working together to make a dent.

We see it as a public safety/public health/human rights combo nightmare, getting worse because our laws don't have the teeth that Oregon's does. Homeland Security is helping out Vancouver PD right now with this issue.

Might not be a problem in unincorporated CC as much as its cities.

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Many thanks for being the go-between! Ron is awesome beyond words! I saw what he is doing with the transcripts of commissioner meetings now. Catching Mielke in contradictory explanations.

If this goes to trial………..what a show on the stand Mielke and Madore would be (if they are not in jail first). I'd love to see a deposition transcript. Any court transcript costs a lot of money to obtain if it is done completed for some other public reason.

roger @ 6:03 PM: goldie mentioned the hand signals, so I checked the video today and, although I could see no signals, noticed that the cup became a character perched on Lou's knee. Very clever, actually. Kinda like the roaming Gnome. Where will it show up next?

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Woosker, I am in the process of searching for actual information on police calls to the county parks for over the past three years. Let's just say, I'm not doubting your word. I just want to see the hard evidence proving the uptake in crime AT the parks.

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just a slight sidetrack from the main entertainment - For those who had an opinion on the minor league ball club that went to Hillsboro because we wouldn't support it.

The city brought in $460,303 during the Hillsboro Hops' first season while spending $296,340 on operations.

Expenses factored in, that nets the city a little less than one quarter -- $163,963 -- of its $769,336 annual debt service on the new ballpark. The $15.55 million facility to house the Class A Hops was largely funded by full faith and credit bonds.

The city expects an annual revenue of $540,000, with about $90,000 in program revenue coming in the off-season.

Attendance wise, the season was a success - SRO most nights. (Well, the SRO was probably due to the beer fence.)

With numbers like that, I'm thinking we had a lucky escape. Our stadium was going to be even more expensive, and I doubt the profits could have been much better. Someone has to pick up the slack, and one would expect city hall will/would spread the pain around to all of us.

roger — November 20, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay peoples...I'd said and I quote "I hear through the grapevine that it was Lou holding and turning his cup while making little hand signals as well." SINCE I haven't had a chance to go over last night's meeting on the archives to see for myself, then I will consider the comment as moot." Are you satisfied, now???

Sheesh...hard lesson by you guys today!!!


goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 20, 2013 at 4:36 p.m.

Were you able to view the part of the meeting you did not catch last night? There was a gentleman who said exactly what you said. Sorry, I didn't catch his name or remember his exact words. Said he was from the 'right side of the isle' or something that implied conservative, and if I remember right, even said he had voted for both M's. But he said he would stand with those who tried to intimidate or shut down free speech. Had to take courage.

jacjak — November 20, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I don't think the coffee cup will make the Columbian richer, but I think it is a very clever community engagement ploy that will take on a life of its own. People are buying these like they are the first Cabbage Patch dolls (create a shortage and make them even more desirable). Lou B has asked folks to send him photos of them with the mug: the more exotic the setting the better. It increases interest in the newspaper and gets people feeling all warm and fuzzy about it, right?

Look, even Ron Goodman borrowed the "Don't Do Stupid Stuff (Don)" motto and it was a hit last night.

Whatever works. I'm for keeping our only newspaper healthy and loved. Now, The Seattle Times, that's another story with me……….

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 20, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.

So who's providing the deterrent here, langenthal? You??? I kindly asked for assistance, guiding me through the process to find the information and all I get is a definition of deterrent???

Cheap shot!

Is there a reason why you are counting on me not finding that information on my own??? Just wondering.

Manthou...maybe you could help???

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Silly time!!!

Okay people...the video footage at last night's meeting which my contact stated it looked as if Lou was giving catcher signals was at 44 minutes, 33 seconds into the public comment segment of the meeting. Now...if you feel like taking the time to check it out...

I'd like you to compare Lou's fidgety hands (which had no glasses or cell phone in his twitchy hand) to the video link I've shared below -

I've provided a statement. I've provided a video which raises the question whether or not Mr. Lou was using hand it's time for you to decide for yourselves. So to iterate???

..and one more thing... Lou was repositioning the mug, probably because he had the meeting live on his cell phone and he could easily locate where to position it for best visuals...cheesey as I'd said before!!!

Keep on smilin'!!!

goldenoldie — November 20, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

marathou - Glad you are on that. That is a very important issue. Portland has one of the worse prostitution/sex trafficing problem in the country. Most of the public is not aware of that. I'm glad they put in the emergency measures. Washingotn/Clark county needs to do the same or they will just keep moving over here.

Woosker — November 20, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldenoldie: Why would the Editor of the Columbian be signaling for an outside curve in the middle of a Clark Co Commissioner's meeting?

JohnK — November 20, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

said he would stand with those who tried to intimidate or shut down free speech. Had to take courage.

jacjak — November 20, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.

OPPS!! Said he would stand AGAINST.....

jacjak — November 20, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have no access to Comcast. Any idea where I can pick up the video so I can watch what missed ?
Gold, I doubt Lou signaled. Probably took cell pictures of himself and the mug.:) or fidgeting in the uncomfy chair.

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: You can watch on your computer through CVTV (google Clark Vancouver TV).;=3892

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldenoldie and others..

The hand signals I saw (after going and watching the tape) was baseball signals.
Not only was he making calls but also with walking finger (which mean to walk the person). I think maybe he was bored, he is a baseball fan, or maybe even at one point in his life he played baseball and was a catcher. Anyway might just be one of his nervous ticks. We all have them, even if one doesn't realize it.

The following is a list of common signs for basic pitches.
The catcher puts down:
One Finger = Fast Ball
Two Fingers = Curve Ball
Three Fingers = Slider
Four Fingers and/or Wiggle Fingers = Change Up
The number of fingers for a certain pitch is arbitrary and can change. For example you could use: One Finger = Fast Ball, Two Fingers = Curve Ball, and Three Fingers = Change Up. In fact, the signs may be different for each pitcher. The types of pitches a pitcher throws could determine the signs. Just make sure that both the pitcher and catcher are on the same page. Make the signs easy to remember!

ELISI — November 20, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: About PDC searches. A pain for sure. I suspect it is so hard for a reason. :)

For Stuart's latest, you need to select 2012 for the date and then sort by county for local elections. He has 15 pages of contributions for that year.

Just sit down with a cup of tea and play with the options for awhile. You can sort each column. Stuart's name is alphabetical on the list.

I am chuckling about the attention Lou is getting on here and FB for the cup and the alleged hand signals. That poor guy has controversy and rumor following him as much as Pig Pen's dirty blanket. I am sure he loves it because it worked!!!! :)

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Manthou.

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak I have worked for the public most of my life. I learned 48 years ago that you get more Bees with honey than with s--t. My partner always said that the price depended on the attitude of the customer. And no I didn't go back and check out the first part of meeting. Like manthou said and it is true, my brain moves in a different direction when confronted with vulgar and uncivil comments. Some of the commenters last night should have been escorted out. I call it the radical right. They are going to lose a lot of support acting the way they do. Unless Madore separates from that type he will be a one term commis. If he makes it that far.I don't think I am to old to change just yet.

timerick — November 20, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal



---Vancouver Washington---The act of barnesing has propagated an early onset of meme population growth, only to be rivaled by a significant uptick in conceal and carry jonesing- while both may be used with and for protective measures, premature trigger pulling may land you in judges chambers-bullets at 11:00---in related news---much talked about Lou Brancaccio's foray into the world of prestidigitation results in a broken cup---local internet site abuser-Margie Tweeter-has succumbed to Progeria Syndrome---merriam webster redefines the word-stunning-to mean boorish---in body splicing transgender news-D Madore has been surgically conjoined with D Peterson calling hisherself DD MaPeter---on the local forum front---sheriff woosker calls for deeper-stiffer-tighter-meaningful sex trafficking measures-goldenoldie repositions her mug-Tonya Harding assaults dee little with roger's baton-manthou scores a touchdown on the transparency gridiron-vanwa wishes Obama happy birtherday-luvit seeks jacjak video-and nailingit-after a stay in his childhood hometown makes a controversial forum return citing the words of Rodney Dangerfield after a making a-stunning-discovery-"I looked up my family tree and found three dogs using it."-more news at godknowswhen---

nailingit — November 20, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 20, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, nail! Welcome back! We all kept the home fires burning for you!

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That was good Roger. Almost looked like last night. Welcome back nail. We have all been thinking about you. Manthou has almost got me going left while you were gone. I may pass out with all my new feelings. Can you help.

timerick — November 20, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.

Hey manthou- The fires seem to be burning hot!

nailingit — November 20, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi timerick- Listen to the mayor! Try not to be overcome with all your new feelings. Feelings of connectivity relating to compassion, acceptance, constructive thinking and liberal lightheartedness can be dizzying for sure. For me, I take two vikes and call myself in the morning!

You know, I missed you guys. Considering the circumstances and feeling too chincy to pay a $5.95 per day internet connection charge, I strayed from the forum. Good to catch up. Always great conversation in here.

nailingit — November 20, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, welcome back, my fellow leftie.
We all missed you.

Especially since we have lost a doggie after yesterday's meeting at which we all expected a holy crapoly alley explosion. Didn't see the Vespa when you came back to town?

luvithere — November 20, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks luvit. Lord love a lefty! :) Not a Vespa in sight. Maybe the pup is spending some quality time with Crain. This sounds like an investigative piece worthy of the C.

Pup In The Perch, news t 11:00!

nailingit — November 20, 2013 at 10:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Brother Nail, good to have you back.

Ain't no sunshine when you're gone........

Sad time, hope you heal soon.

Missed you.


hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 20, 2013 at 8:57 p.m.


Thanks for the memories.

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

NAILS...good to see you have returned! You have been missed!!!

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 5:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There's an article in the hard copy of The Columbian - I presume it'll get to the internet version at 0600. Part of Marissa Harshman's look at the ACA which supports an argument that I'm making about what will (possibly) kill the program. Not Repub opposition - but normal working people who just cannot afford the ridiculously high cost of the insurance.

The person she profiles is a single woman in her mid 50s who works as a freelance technical writer. She supports her mother and, due to job requirements, maintains two residences. Her income is listed as variable, but more than the $46K subsidy threshold. She's analyzed all the options and determined the plans available are completely unaffordable - She's better off paying out of pocket for her annual exam and flu shot, and just paying the penalty.

This is not an isolated case - The enrollment numbers are so low that I will continue to maintain that her situation, and subsequent decision to not comply with the law, will be a very common one.

As the lady says - "We're working, we're doing everything we're supposed to be doing, and now we're being penalized because we can't afford insurance because it's too expensive. This is not the right solution."

This is not the right solution. A classic "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul" - in order to provide heavily subsidized coverage to those who were previously uninsured, we're going to push a whole new group of hard working people into the ranks of the working poor - People who will continue to see themselves sliding ever further into debt, and unable to save for when they can no longer work. The only way to escape this fate will be to break the law. And when good people are forced to become criminals in order to survive, there's something terribly wrong with the law.

Meanwhile, Croesus grows ever wealthier.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 20, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.

Yeah...about Lou...pure silly break from the usual (my intent to begin with). You have to was a questionable twitch...8))

Regarding the PDC, I thank you for taking the incentive to direct me. I will be checking it out as well as other names on the lists.

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome home, nails!

Drift — November 21, 2013 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 20, 2013 at 10:57 p.m. -- "That's my ALL TIME FAVORITE SNL bit.
Thanks for the memories."

Thank Nails - I read his post and it sounded like a fitting response, so I went looking for it.

(Welcome back, Nails. Now, let's see you take that leftist, tree hugging, we are the world reasoning of yours and try to continue to justify the ACA.)

Timerick - Stay away from the Dark Side! Manthou, Nails, Luvithere, are leading you astray with their liberalism! Return to the middle of the road and see things unfettered by the rose colored glasses they offer you. (You compared yourself to Yancey a few days ago. Totally erroneous - In addition to being able to present your views in a coherent, well reasoned manner (something he apparently is incapable of), you represent the hard working spirit that made this Country great.)

And now that I've stirred the pot, time to go to work.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HAHAHAHA!!! Just did a comparison of campaign contributions to our local elected officials!!!

BOY does the STENCH of SPECIAL INTERESTS spell it out clearly on the PDC website!!! Unions, interesting business affiliates...ICC leadership and supporters...

Manthou, thanks for providing the PDC website for me. There's no doubt in my mind now...not one single solitary doubt! The facts are spelled out when it comes to just who it is the GOBK has on their puppet strings!!!

The best evidence to share...

Certain local politicians who were elected BY THE PEOPLE, NOT Special Interests!!!

It tells tells ALL!!! The cat has been let out of the bag on this one in my opinion!

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, good to see you back!!

As far as the HC/BP mystery goes, me thinks he wasn't fully house broken and soiled the front room carpet one too many times again. Once he changes up he will be back. You know he will have a new name but with the same ol' complaints and barbs.

Now there's a little article that intrigued me. Why are people so upset about balloons depicting animals so upset? One of the most 'unpolitical' parades in the country and they want to start a controversy? what the heck. Are so many people so unhappy that they have to start a controversy where there is none? Now they vow to protest the parade and mess it up for the rest of the visitors.

Remember what PETA really means ...

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 6:33 a.m.

When you cage a rabid dog...

Once he escapes, he'll be a menace!!

No doubt in my mind...he'll be back.


goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 6:33 a.m.

Are you trying to tell me Snoopy is REAL????

What are you talking about, John? If I'm reading you right, these people have too much time on their hands, they need to get back to the real world.

hawkeye — November 21, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

Well, if you look, they haven't pulled his posts so I don't think they caged him. Maybe he ran out of gas on his scooter or his boat sunk.

Oh well, off to work.

Taa taa

hawkeye — November 21, 2013 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If the pup got the boot the "C" didn't bother to clean up his mess.
His comments are still here (shrug).

Drift — November 21, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye and Drift...

Anybody with a lick of sense could easily see what the dawg's intentions were with regards to my posts...and he failed. He's hiding somewhere with his tail between his legs. Nobody's blocked least, not that I'm aware of. He's regrouping himself and will be back again, soon. He's kind of like a virus...there's no cure for what ails him.

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No Hawk, I'm not saying snoopy is real. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade is supposed to be a family friendly event enjoyed by all. No political statements just plain good fun. It's televised all over the world. I believe they. PETA et al, are attempting to highjack it for their own agenda. That's all. I do agree they have way too much time on their hands. LOL

Drift, the Columbian sometimes do remove offensive posts. I have that distinction in the past. Although I didn't swear, the contents were of an offensive nature to some of the staff and I am willing to bet that some of the readers were saying that I went to far. In the past, my comments were aimed at a specific class of people that performed unspeakable acts against others.

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As I was sitting out on my patio I observed a very beautiful sunrise this morning. With the moon in the western sky it was a 'smell the roses' moment. It's 22 degrees out in my area, according to my temp gauge. I left a wheelbarrow out and it was half full of water. It has a half inch of ice on it.

Take the time today to at least look at those roses. I know it works for me and maybe it will work for you. Have a great day. See you all tomorrow. God willin' and if the rain didn't spoil the rhubarb!!

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye-goldenoldie-Drift-John et all-Thanks so much for your welcoming words. Your empathy and graciousness are much appreciated.


Reid is finally pulling the trigger with the filly nuke option. Republicans from the get go have tried to negate this presidential election, to include the constant obstruction of Judicial nominees. About time this was done. If the GOP were Senate controlled they would do it in a heartbeat, regardless of need.


"Take the time today to at least look at those roses. I know it works for me and maybe it will work for you."

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.

Never better advice given John. Something I need to remind myself of daily. Thanks for that.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good advice, JohnCasey! Where I come from, we used to say, "God willin' and if the creek (crick) don't rise."
Woosker: I just learned that most new cars have "event data recorders" or black boxes on board that record critical data in a crash! Have I been living under a rock? My 2005 Jetta doesn't have one. There is some controversy over privacy and some states, like Oregon and WA, have laws that say the data is the property of the car owner, unless law enforcement is doing an investigation of a crash…….
David Madore, at yesterday's Board time meeting, thought he could order up a new third bridge at 192nd on Clark County's Transportation package wish list to Olympia, like a burger at Bob's, just because he wants one. The lobbyist had to explain to him that it does not work that way and anyhow, a new bridge involves other jurisdictions. He gave him the bad news that any hope of another run at a bridge will not come our way for 7-10 years, so stick with road improvement projects in CC. He also wanted to eliminate the word "multimodal" in the title, because that includes light rail. The lobbyist said that he could not do that, either, because the language comes from Olympia and is all-inclusive to allow other counties to focus on transportation packages, if they wish. The guy needs a nanny.

manthou — November 21, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I have become woefully ignorant on Federal matters because my eyeballs are swimming in local drama, as usual. So glad to have your updates again.

timerick: My idea is to support any and all moderate Republicans as they fight to reign in their far right brethren and sisters. Local elections will have many of those persons: Garry Lucas (I hope he runs for CC Commissioner next); Greg Kimsey; and yes, Marc Boldt, for starters. There may be newcomers, too.

Speaking of potential candidates: let's talk Rekah Strong into running for CC Commissioner, too, while we are at it.

manthou — November 21, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.

I could be mistaken, but I thought when a person got kicked out all traces (comments) got the bum's rush, too.

The pup's "stuff" is still here. Though I don't care for his typical posture, I sure hope he hasn't met with some sort of calamity.

Drift — November 21, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 7.56 am: Another face palm of a board time. A nanny would be good, or at least a pacifier. When it comes to governance, David Madore needs to stop thinking he's the smartest person in the room. Bless Mike Burgess(?) and Axel Swanson for trying to diplomatically lend him a hand.

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Welcome back, and belated condolences. Hope you're getting some rest. Sending strength and peace.

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift, after I wrote that I began to think the same thing. I to hope that nothing serious has befallen him either. We are all a pretty close group of posters and although we might disagree sometimes I don't think we hate someone that much that we hope they have some form of calamity happen to them.

Life is more important than that. At least I hope so.

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift and John good thoughts. I kind of miss his posts. Didn't agree so much but I could always find some humor in some of them. Manthou I agree Mr. Kimsey is a pretty straight shooter. Our sheriff I like but I think a fresh face might be good. I don't know the 2 guys that are going to run. Will have to do some checking on them. Both retired at least 1 on a disability. Maybe we need someone younger? Will have to wait and see. Not enough information yet.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LA Times to LTTE authors: If your climate change opinion is not based on scientific fact, we won't print your letter:

manthou — November 21, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning all, had to drive south early this morning and now back home. It was crystal clear after the sun finally came up and stunning views were to be had.
Timerick, never compare yourself to Yancey. Your comments are spoton, well thought out, and always appreciated. Nails and I will pull you slightly to the left as we can (kidding).

Manthou, so my old newspaper, The LA Times, had it with the deniers? Nice nice. I want one piece of good news a day.

Regarding the pup. I also hope he is ok. His rants do add spice to the basement, and underneath them, there's always a kernel of truth. Since they were not so bad the last day, I don't think he got banned again. Hiding? sailing? Vespa-ing?

luvithere — November 21, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I see Sen Reid has successfully pulled the nuclear option in the Senate. Hopefully this means he has good reason to believe Democrats will continue to hold their Senate majority.
And Republicans, who agreed earlier this year not to unreasonably block Presidential appointments, have only themselves to blame.

JohnK — November 21, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELSIE November 20, 2013 at 8:23 p.m

RE: Hand Signals.. That was awesome your description, BUT they have changed over the past 5-10 years. it's now

1-2 first number is type of pitch and second number is the location the catcher wants
so this is a fastball high outside, 3 would be low and inside, 4 would be low outside...

Having had a pitcher in the Family was a great experience. I miss traveling with that little girl. We went everywhere...The south in the summer though was not our favorite place to go.. So Lou was probably trying to give Stuart some type of signal to move the meeting along or call on various folks.. IDRK...

GO- Since I have visited sevral of the Parks on the Columbia over the past 20 years or so. I would just be using my own judgement as to the volume of people that used the park this year compared to past years but this year it was significantly more people. Which is all good. But what I also noticed was allott more garbage just being left.. Certainly If I saw someone just leaving it I would say " Is that your bag or such like" they would pick it up.. What bothered me more was the illegal taking of fish. Some of these guys you just didn't want to mess with... Half drunk or fully loaded which ever way you want to look at it. Having the number to our local Fish and Wildlife hot line was very usefull. All you had to do was get there license plate and let them do what they do. I saw a few of them not come back at all through the summer.

Welcome back and hope your doing well. I think it's just not VESPA driving weather.. BURRRRR

vanwadreamer — November 21, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Red flag summary from "Board Time with Dave and Tom" yesterday (it got real dicey when Steve Stuart had to leave):

*CC Attorneys say relax free speech limits and alter guidelines to reflect this (good). Mielke objects that he still wants limits to keep CC out of trouble (he needs an inservice on Free Speech laws in simple concepts he can understand and from someone he will listen to: God, maybe?).

*Don Benton suggests, via his pal Mielke, to make changes to CC's Conservation Futures (purchasing of land for open, public space). Can we use the money we have for land purchases to pay off our debts instead? Oh, oh. (cue BIG red flag and LOUD sirens about now). Don's the fox in the environmental protection hen house.

*Madore wants to share his "Integrity Resolution" with the environmental groups who are suing the CRC right now (as if he ever cared about helping these "liberal" non-profits before). Stuart says, wanna help them? Write them a check instead: they will appreciate it more.

manthou — November 21, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK @ 10:11 am. That is good news, indeed. Batten down the hatches, though, for some "nuclear" fall out. :)

manthou — November 21, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail - The nuclear option is a very short sighted victory. I don't like either side using it. It just makes each side dig in even further. If the ACA keeps going the way it has been and the millions of group cancellations hit next October as is being discussed, the Dems will rue the day they changed the nuclear option if they lose the senate which is very likely if they don't fix this thing fast. I don't like either side doing this, they need to work together or be thrown out of office - that goes for both sides.

Woosker — November 21, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 10.13am: Thanks for the red flag alerts. That conservation futures conversation was troubling at best. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.

Regarding the County joining the enviro lawsuit (oh the irony, which I bet Madore wouldn't appreciate): The Stuart "write them a check" moment was priceless.

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm back. I got off early. My client said he felt like not going to his appointment. He sometimes can be very contrary. When that happens I had to call my supv. He showed up and I left. The guy's younger than me. I hope I don't end like that.

Mr. Yancey is mostly a footer going to work or whatever on the public conveyance system. To me he's a shill for C-Tran and Tri-Met. He doesn't mind that the Loo-Rail system is heavily subsidized. And all the public should pay for it. Never mind it's hemorrhaging money so fast it might be bankrupt in two or three years. To me he's just like Mike Briggs and moeller. No one on here remotely compares to those two. Some of you are for it and some are against but those who say why on here have pretty good reason for how they feel and can present a pretty good argument for or against. So timerick please don't ever think you may be like the yancey guy. Or even like mike.

JohnCasey — November 21, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey, Timmerick,

I had a long discussion with Yancey when I was "allowed" to, a few months ago. He wanted to know if he could still go into the old City Hall building and use the restrooms since that's where he always went before they sold it. Apparently it was close to his bus stop and he didn't "go" before he left home or he had a bladder problem. I reminded him it was now private property now and it would probably be closed . He had a hard time understanding that and we got into a "warm" discussion.

He does have a different thought process.

I told him to use the Chevron station across the street.

hawkeye — November 21, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey I use Mr. Yancey as a example of what not to be. I do like Mike Briggs because we will argue with what he thinks are very good ideas. He is for the most part very civil. That goes a long ways with me.Yancey is a shill for C-Tran. He sits on the citizen advisory board. I would guess because C-Tran knows he will do and say what they want. He probably doesn't know he is being used.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Hawk send him my way. You could have put a porta potty out for him. Hey Drift and Nail did you see where more drivers are testing positive for pot? Do you suppose it is because they never tested anyone until this year? Of course more are positive when you have no prior years to compare to. I don't think the C likes pot.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 3:20 p.m.

I read that article too. Was unclear on the blood vs breathalizer comparison. Not the amount of 0.08 compared to the THC, but more specifically how is the blood aquired? If a driver is pulled over for some reason spotted by a traffic officer, and he suspects driving under the influence of alcohol, he can do a roadside breathalizer. But, how does he have to means at the side of the road to test blood? Is it an automatic arrest so the blood can be collected safely?

jacjak — November 21, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't know. but I would think you could be arrested on suspicion of impaired driving. Then they could ask for a blood test. I really don't know for sure how it would work. Good question.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 3:20 p.m.

"It doesn’t necessarily mean there has been a rash of people driving high, said patrol spokesman Bob Calkins. Troopers are looking harder for drivers operating under the influence of pot, and they might be ordering more marijuana blood tests — “We’re testing blood we didn’t test before,” he said."

timerick- I think this statement from the article speaks to your question. And yeah, I don't think the C likes pot or pretty much anything left of center. I'm always amused at some on Face Book who accuse this pub for being liberal.

I think your citing Yancey as what not to be is spot on. (there might be some issues with him that go beyond the norm) Yancey sitting on the C-TRAN board is a little disturbing. Maybe he could shill for Flomax.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And, why the article in the first place? With 40,000 impared driving arrests annually (gasp!) why a long article about the increase from 609 to 745 for marijuana impared violations? There was not even an accounting of population increase, driver increase, or other factors. Just a flat comparison of incidents and connection to the new law. What gives?

jacjak — November 21, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Kyle Greenwood (Columbian Staff) — November 21, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Woosker — November 21, 2013 at 11:14 a.m

I don't see this as any kind of victory. Unfortunately, in light of unprecedented GOP obstruction it was necessary. Much to do with the DC circuit court of appeals. It weighs Right now and the republicans want it to remain that way.

Our President has a constitutional obligation to make these appointments. Unfortunately many on the right refuse to let him govern. I agree with the bulk of your post.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody with a lick of sense could easily see what the dawg's intentions were with regards to my posts...and he failed. He's hiding somewhere with his tail between his legs. Nobody's blocked least, not that I'm aware of. He's regrouping himself and will be back again, soon. He's kind of like a virus...there's no cure for what ails him.

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 7:01 a.m.

Wow, now that's the pot calling the kettle black..seems like I read more of goldie's righteous name calling than anything else when it comes to the anyone who disagrees with her.

And no doubt, I will get a double barrel for this post.

soapbox4u — November 21, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

[[[you mean somebody at the C reads this forum?]]]

Thanks for the slap down Kyle! :) I guess that was warranted. Overall, with most opinions the C does lean right. I guess it depends on who the author is. Thanks for bringing this article to light.

How about more factually driven pot articles? Thanks for weighing in.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I stand corrected Kyle Greenwood the C does like pot. Could be where Lou got the idea for his coffee cup?

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What up soap?


roger — November 21, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

roger- Never hugged a tree, but have dialogued with many a sap. :)

Just to remind-again-that health care costs were projected to take up 40% of our GDP in 2018 if nothing was done. Unsustainable. Health care care costs continue to escalate (as with everything else consumer driven) but are rising at a much slower rate than before the ACA was enacted. More are insured-people can stay on their parents policies until 26-no one can be denied for pre-existing conditions-yadda yadda yadda. Instead of projecting ACA doom and gloom, why not encourage your republican friends to improve our current law by engaging in the process. Red states need to embrace exchanges and medicaid expansion. They are hurting their constituents lives by not doing so and will pay a price at the polls.

It's the old republican thing, be against it, demonize it, and offer nothing as an alternative. Nothing. Again, the personal mandate is a republican idea, and the ACA used a republican governor's template for their model. (wasn't Romney also chosen as the 2012 republican presidential nominee?)

The law is going nowhere. Period. I know that is hard for many to accept. Single payer, for a long time to come, is not in the picture. If you have any ideas to fix our current health care system please present them. Harping about how terrible the ACA is reminds me of those who want a third bridge. Pie in the sky thinking which is neither productive or reality based.

This might help.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.

Maybe Lou should sell green coffee cups (green tea?) with 502 on the side for promotion.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey nail, always reading, rarely commenting. You should see the scoreboard!!

soapbox4u — November 21, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For those who care about such things, the latest "Integrity Resolution" has 31 "Whereas" statements.

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

(Thanks for your thoughts sending peace & strength. Much appreciated.)

I thought Madore would muck things up when elected, but I never thought one man could use the word 'integrity', and turn it into a word meaning corruption, deceit & disgrace.

Maybe he'll get the wording right by next election. Watching this guy present items to the board without proper presentation, wording or timing is sad. It's one thing to be new on the job, it's another to show reckless disregard for process and decorum.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting article that says the Feds and the IRS are raiding pot stores and growing sites in Colorado. So much for deciding not to pursue the war.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — November 21, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

Holy Crap!!!! (no "ola")

31 Whereas'? This Bozo is in love with that word. I think he ought to scrap the whole idea but then he'd feel guilty about how much he's cost the County in legal time and how much board time he's wasted. Of course, Meilke won't mind, when Madore is talking, Meilke doesn't have to think. He just nods.

hawkeye — November 21, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.

Thanks for the link, already emailed it on.

Heard something on NPR this AM about Oracle and the ACA website problems. Anyone else hear it? Not sure if Oracle is helping solve or problems or are part of the problem. Just caught part of it.

jacjak — November 21, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger --- I wanted you to reach 20%. You can check your numbers by precinct too.

Roger Neilson
4,206 19.9%

langenthal — November 21, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

soapbox4u — November 21, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. double barrel, soapbox. You have a right to your opinion on any discussion. I honestly wish you'd provide more opinionated pieces about what is happening in and around Clark County and beyond. Nothing better than diversity!!!

Just my thoughts. Have a good evening, soap!

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh...and soapbox4u,

Thanks for that slice of humble pie. The nicknames for a certain avatar on here were purely silliness and were not meant to be taken seriously. Change happens...

I'm working on it.

goldenoldie — November 21, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, glad you are back and expanding our chats with a bit of a national focus. We were so preoccupied with our local yokels, we forgot there's a whole world left to discuss and trash. Mind you, the local yokels CAN keep us busy, what with their shenanigans, but good to discuss the rest.

luvithere — November 21, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Langenthal - Thanks. The way I figured it, anything over 50 votes was going to be a surprise. No political endorsements and I refused to answer all questionnaires - mainly because they kept asking for political affiliation, where I stood on the CRC, and other info I considered irrelevant to the freeholder process. (I did answer some of those questions in several e-mails, however. I figured anyone who took the time to ask deserved something back.) Clearing 4200 has me amazed.

(I heard Nails paid a bunch of kids to stuff the ballot box - otherwise I'd have only got my 50.)

roger — November 21, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.,

One problem - I will not support anything that's built to support the capitalist SOBs who have taken health care from the days of the town doctor who treated everyone, regardless of ability to pay, to one where the largest monthly expense most will have is the mandatory insurance to pay for the eventuality you may need this same care. The only plan I support is the universal coverage one, paid for by our taxes and administered by our government. PeaceHealth, Rebound, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and all of those leeches can go under.

No, the ACA you so willingly support is built to protect those charlatans who claim to support the Hippocratic oath. They'd priced their services to the point where people elected to take advantage of the law not allowing them to turn people away, and would get treated at the hospital emergency rooms and trash the bills. And they paid Speaker Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, and nearly all their associates $100 million in bribes to write the law to protect them - not the people.

(Most of my Repub friends are horrified to hear this kind of talk. But so are most of the Dem ones too, so.... And all that talk of sap makes me want some homemade vanilla ice cream with real maple syrup mixed in.)

roger — November 21, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The law is going nowhere. Period. I know that is hard for many to accept. Single payer, for a long time to come, is not in the picture."

that's correct. as long as this asinine for profit health care system exists amerika, inc . we will insure we rate at the bottom of just about all "liveability" quotients the Organization of Economically Developed Countries portends. In educational ratings, crime, etc., we'll never crack the top 20 again. Infrastructure-forget it-we're toast. But we do have more aircraft carriers than the next guy, we're spending $1.5 TRILLION on F-35 fighters, just launched a carrier-the USS Ronald Reagan-and mothballed the USS Enterprise, and sold the USS George Washington, another carrier approaching 100,000 tons for scrap. For a dollar. No chit-one dollar. While Wall St reaches record highs, corporate profits are at an all time high, and corporate cash is also very high, almost 50% of folks don't think the recession-really the depression-has ended. Is that a disconnect? Only an idiot would argue otherwise. 60% of the depression's job losses were good paying jobs only to be replaced by minimum wage jobs, part-time at best. Welcome to a serfdom...

mrd — November 21, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I will have to agree on your view of health care. Single payer system supported by our tax dollars. We already have medicare. Lets expand it to cover everyone. I think most people would agree to expand our medicare tax a few percent from each of us that pay tax's. As I have said before I was a witness to Canada's system first hand and I was impressed with it. I know, I have heard the stories of how you have to wait for elective procedures. But I think that could be worked out to make it work for all of us. This would take the health care leeches out of the system. Like you say both sides have had and continue to have their bread buttered by the drug and health providers. They will not be willing to do what is right for all Americans. Nail if this makes me a lefty than so be it. Doing the right thing should never take a side. We are all in this boat together.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well - I wonder if we'll get some outrage generated over the latest. It seems Jeff Hamm was negotiating his own contract with TriMet, and actually had one ready to sign, before the C-Tran Board meeting where he was directed to go hash out the details of a contract with TriMet. Madore had requested the info before that meeting, and was provided all except a copy of the contract itself. Hamm supposedly decided not to distribute copies because things were so contentious. And we already know he signed the final product the very next day, without first clearing this action with the Board.

Ann Rivers has gotten the documentation showing all this from C-Tran. It'll be interesting to see if this goes anywhere. Should Hamm be fired? Will we learn some of the Board members were in on this, and had been told more by Hamm than the others?

Maybe it's time we had our own street beggar walking around with a lamp looking for that one honest man - he might find this a difficult task.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, I think wanting "Medicare for all" is a Socialist idea - one that Franklin Delano Roosevelt would be proud of, We pay into Medicare (1.45% of our pay, and matched by our employer); those who make more pay more, but all employed people pay. The ACA is a Capitalist ripoff, with the money going to their bottom line.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 5 p.m.

Big Brother is watching! Some guy named Suarez is riding herd over on facebook - He seems to be quite fair with enforcement. Marshal Matt Wowhatever kind of took sides a little.

It probably wouldn't be a good idea to make too much fun of Editor Lou's latest fixation on coffee cups.

roger — November 21, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger they are watching here also. I was corrected today by Kyle Greenwood. Good thing I was civil. If not I might be riding with the puppy.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Tim is on the mark. Medicare for all is the best idea. It's already in place, everybody pays for it AND it works.

hawkeye — November 21, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Four Days in November is on Comcast 784 - Turner Classic Movies. It started at 9.

I know some of you were too young to have seen this in 1964. It's newsreel, amateur film, and recreations.

langenthal — November 21, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just to be clear, I'm not a cheerleader for the ACA. A single payer like system seems ideal. I'm just dealing with the reality of our beloved capitalist system. The rich get richer-the poor get poorer & unhealthier, and we all pay for it one way or another. My point is something had to be done. Health care costs had reached a tipping point. Once this is in place and red states sign on to it, (and they will-they'll get tired of losing elections) and of course the website will get fixed, it'll be a better deal then what's been happening. Again, our current system was unsustainable.

We should and most likely will expand medicare to include health care. I hope so. What party's ideology is standing in the way of doing this? Sure both party's benefit from the greed, but who is objecting the most to this form of "socialism"?

Republicans as a national political force are going down, and they know it. It's why the baggers and hard right folks emphasize state rights. They're holding on to "principles" that are not only outdated, but many times are entrenched in bigotry and bias most of the country have been and are denouncing. With changing demographics, changing mindsets and reality based observations about deeply flawed right wing economic principles, people are waking up.

I believe government should reflect the will of the people. And most people embrace a mixture of ideals and policies. We are catching up to much of Europe in some respects. They've had a lot longer to get some things right and health care seems to be one of them.

America's a great place. But we have to realize we're all on this place called earth together. We can learn from different cultures, as will as provide learning experiences for others. There is no one 'right way' to do many things, but a combination of successful experiences which can be formatted to individual living environments.

As roger aptly put it-"we are the world reasoning". :))

This "rightest" & "leftist" nonsense conservatives base their lives on is crap. It has to be hard for many so-called libertarian federalist types to bring themselves around to accept this. It requires not only a sense of self, but a sense of others and the needs involved. A caring for others, which many times at the electorate level requires us older folk to dig in our pockets a little bit.

We are our brothers keeper to a degree.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It'll be interesting looking at America 50-100 years from now. Which brings this conversation to full circle.

I've developed a life extending elixir called 'Holy Grail', which can be yours for a measly $79.99 per month. Payment plans available. Some great stars are endorsing my product to include Jesus Christ himself. "I've been drinking nailingit's Holy Grail grape ale for more than 2000 years and look at me! Have faith!" "Muhammad say, "Yo, after all this time I still dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee."


(having some website difficulty-should be fully functional by December 1st)

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We wish we were not old enough to remember 1964. Whats a newsreel. Oh I remember they showed those before the feature film at Kiggins.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Christsakes I am starting to agree with Nail. I think there is no hope for me. Hawk and Roger you two are going to have to save me from myself.

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Clark County Citizens for Good Governance
Chris Gilson
The Vancouver Audubon Society has an article on the Department of Environmental Services on page 3 of their December newsletter. I'm attaching a link for your reading pleasure

Things Are Worse Than We Thought
Department of Environmental Services:
Stormwater Management Program

langenthal — November 21, 2013 at 10:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 21, 2013 at 10:16 p.m.

It is your destiny.

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"But we do have more aircraft carriers than the next guy, we're spending $1.5 TRILLION on F-35 fighters, just launched a carrier-the USS Ronald Reagan-and mothballed the USS Enterprise, and sold the USS George Washington, another carrier approaching 100,000 tons for scrap. For a dollar. No chit-one dollar."

Lockheed is bilking the government out of money, being 7 years behind schedule, defective parts and malfunctions.
The USS Ronald Reagan was launched in 2001 and commissioned in 2003. It wasn't "just launched".
USS Enterprise served 51 years, it was more than time to mothball it. Do you drive your cars for 51 years?
USS George Washington is just now hitting her 25 year half life and is base out Yokosuka, Japan. She was in Hong Kong earlier this month, now she is in the Philippines providing humanitarian aide. So I don't think she's been sold for a dollar.

jasonb — November 21, 2013 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 21, 2013 at 8:16 p.m.

it doesn't take a super sleuth to figure out the genesis of obamacare.

insurance and pharm companies got theirs thanks to a captive customer pool, gvt got theirs by gaining total control over health care AND it's distribution and the insiders got theirs by being exempt.

the losers? US, OF COURSE.

there are some who will become poverty-level family supporters due to the increased premiums minus the better benefits. there are others, who are just making it right now, who will be left newly uninsired (yes, UNinsured) because they were just making it, and can't afford the doubling, tripling premiums AND...they make too much to be eligble for gvt subsidy.

this cluster-theft of our money, AGAIN, needs to be chopped up and dumped into the ocean like the chum it is.

want health-care reform? i agree with the others....give 'em a medicare-like plan. base it on two major criteria; income AND anticipated cost. if my two kids had been diagnosed with their fatal disease today, i would want a way to get them treated and not have to debase myself so much that i would be judged pathetic enough to be helped.

DeeLittle — November 21, 2013 at 11:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We work in shifts here on the Forum, have you noticed? :) I just clocked in early today.

langenthal @ 10:55 PM: Good information from Gretchen Starke about program cuts to Environmental Services. I knew Mr. Clifford was brought in to be a hatchet man and Benton's Brain. He is smooth and will be running for office in Clark County soon. Mark my word.

timerick @ 10:16 PM: That's what happens when we engage in dialogue with persons of diverse political views. Good ideas rub off! That's also what makes this Forum so unique from all the biased FB groups or blogs totally left or right (which I enjoy reading, too): no one gets exposed to other viewpoints and they tend to keep reinforcing thinking errors and demonization of the "other." Good people and good ideas exist across the spectrum. We are more alike than different. We should pool our smarts and demand better performance from our politiicians and government. Kumbaya. Go Team Forum…..

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 5:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also want to send a shout out to citizen activism from the C-Tran Board oversight folks. I am glad someone has time and interest to request and review all the public record documents. I look forward to learning more and to see where this goes.

Even if the CRC/LR project dies its slow demise finally (looks like it is off Oregon life support now), we should try to become as informed as possible and study what worked and what failed and who is to blame for behind-closed-doors deals.

To his credit, Madore gets an A for demanding and helping to implement government transparency increases. He gets an A for defending free speech recently. I suspect, though, that he, too, like so many other local politicians, has engaged in back door deal making, as well as rule-breaking. We shall soon find out more on everyone, I hope.

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 5:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 10:08 PM: So agree with you. Glad to have your opinions back in the mix here.

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 5:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 21, 2013 at 10:08 p.m.

Update - Experts: fix needs time, money.

Read that article. They're politely saying our health care database was written by who knows how many independent groups, all working in their own little world, and then someone tried to pull this work all together. Nothing was properly tested. I had to build a couple of databases back in the late '80s - one in Dbase3+ and one in PCFocus. Digging through and finding all the unplanned detours with the decision points because I didn't write the logical sequence correctly, the fields that crossed over but didn't match up because of different lengths, and a few other things like that, probably took longer than the initial write. And what happened to these guys also happened to me - I'd be at the 90% ready mark, and my bosses would swing by and say "Hey! Great idea! Make it track so and so!" This would invariably set me back quite a bit. With these writers, those changes were thrown their way shortly before their deadline. No wonder the program doesn't work properly. I was a rank amateur and these writers are pros, but GIGO seems to affect them as much as it did me. Things have changed, but my limited experience says that guy from CAST is correct - they've got a long way to go before is working.

What the article addresses is the interaction with select insurance company databases. What it doesn't address is other ones it's also going to have to link to in order to export data. For example, how does IRS tell whether I have insurance? Do they just accept what I put on my 1040, or do they verify somehow? We better pray that one of the things that does work from the outset with this new data exchange is the security.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 5:20 a.m.

So, did Jeff Hamm overstep his bounds? I sort of recall in August he told the Board he had quit working on the C-Tran bit for the CRC. He was instructed to put something together to brief the Board to meet an earlier requirement - Was it Steve Stuart or Tim Leavitt that displayed more than a little irritation when they found out he didn't have this ready in August?

Hamm's presentation at the meeting where Stuart did his 180 was supposed to meet this requirement. He was instructed at that meeting to enter into negotiations with TriMet and come up with a contract for the Board to approve. Now we're finding out that he had already held those meetings - apparently on his own accord - and had a copy of the contract to be signed in his hip pocket while attending that Board meeting. Further, he goes out the next day and signs it - without Board approval. As Bill Ganley notes - "This went a lot faster than I thought it was going to go."

It will be quite interesting to see if Ann Rivers can get a decent investigation into this going. I really doubt Hamm was operating completely on his own accord when circumventing the expected process and deciding to commit us to that contractual agreement with TriMet. Frankly, this stinks a whole lot more than the Benton hiring fiasco - This one should have the potential for some jail time.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning. I was just reading APIL regarding a letter sent and ginned by Burkman. Anybody noticed the admonishment to Ms. Tweet about staying on topic? Looks like the C is going to enforce a few rules.

Staying on topic. That would not fly down here.

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.

I am in total agreement with your statement!!! It is my opinion that all who signed in agreement with the C-Tran/TriMet agreement should definitely face some kind of disciplinary action, possibly even be stripped of their voting rights on the C-Tran Board or removed from their position on the Board of Directors (and political office) for ignoring the will of the voters of Clark County.

And C-Tran (my opinion) as a transit entity...they've done their own damage by allowing such an agreement to even be considered for signature BEFORE each member had a right to review the contract. Their rights as board members were stripped.

C-Tran has just lowered their standards to the level of TriMet.

Way to go...C-Tran.

goldenoldie — November 22, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Grrrrr, that was supposed to be signed, not ginned. Too early to fix autocorrect. And what is ginned anyway?

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 6:16 a.m.

My guess...

A toast to the signature with a chaser of gin??? (this idea coming from a teetotaler, lol)

Good morning, luvit. Don't you just love autocorrect!!!

goldenoldie — November 22, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning, Gold. Autocorrect can be a lot of fun when it happens to others.

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 6:23 a.m.

I hear ya! Nothing worse than catching the error when it's too late. And of course, thanks to the wonders of the internet, there's even a website (actually way more than one) which shares those bloobers.

goldenoldie — November 22, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Some like gin and tonic, while others prefer whiskey and water.

Suarez also told Steinke to stay on topic - As I noted last night, he seems to be quite fair with his admonishments.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:01 am: If I were Jeff Hamm, I'd be looking for another job. This isn't getting better.

When desire to ram through agendas, circumventing process and procedure and the law…..well, it should not end well.

The Benton hire, the C-Tran/Tri-Met contract all stink. Were laws broken in both cases? Highly probable. We shall soon see.

Both examples will see legal action and court decisions, I think.

While I often want to leave Clark County because of the politicians, it is the citizen activists who make me want to stay. I have never seen such zealous, tenacious oversight in my adult life anywhere.

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It is my opinion that the parties involved in the C-Tran/TriMet fiasco are hoping Senator Ann Rivers and the Freedom Foundation scrap their investigation which could be the worst mistake if they did. I'm not sure if there is a date expiration on the contract obligations but if there isn't, C-Tran and TriMet could get away with ...well... I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say.

Nail 'em, Senator Rivers!!! Nail 'em to the wall!!!

goldenoldie — November 22, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - Jeff Hamm signed that agreement with TriMet. The questions to be asked are 1) Was it within the scope of his authority to do so without the Board seeing/approving the contract to be signed (vice the brief they were given saying what we wanted in it); 2) If it was outside the scope of his authority, then did he make the decision to do so on his own, or was there some collusion with others involved; 3) Was that copy of the contract he failed to distribute at the Board meeting vetted with any of the Board prior to signing; 4) If the contract was not properly approved before signature, is it legally binding; and 5) Whatever else I'm not thinking of. Late for work!

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ginned, gin·ning, gins
1. To remove the seeds from (cotton) with a cotton gin.

hawkeye — November 22, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, I like gin better.

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: I read your use of 'ginned' and didn't blink an eye. I've seen it used to mean falsifying a document or jury-rigging a repair. It had much the same meaning as gun-decking a log or report. Maybe it had something to do with the cobbled together nature of the early cotton gins?

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 22, 2013 at 5:47 a.m.

I did cringe a bit when the Prez put a specific date with getting this fixed. Until it does start working properly, republicans will continue to conflate website problems with the ACA itself. Fortunately these web problems affect only a small fraction of Americans.

Where's Al Gore when you need him, (getting a message?) seeing how he created the internet n' all.

nailingit — November 22, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...should be-getting a "massage". Sorry Al.

nailingit — November 22, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 22, 2013 at 7:43 a.m.

Hopefully, that massage is from a licensed masseuse named Olga.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

oops, it was the USS Gerald Ford-Not Reagan. The USS Forrestal was sold for a buck. The retired USS Enterprise was and could be still better than most. It seems updating would be billions cheaper than starting from scratch. With the F-35 and many others having the ability to do vertical take-offs, these huge, ungodly expensive carriers requiring pretty much a fleet of support ships seems a little over the top.

"insurance and pharm companies got theirs thanks to a captive customer pool"

dee-i see you've found those corporate wolves you couldn't find last week.

mrd — November 22, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 7:40 a.m.

hehe...JohnK, I like your explanation better. It fits the subject of luvit's comment to a "T" in this instance...8))

goldenoldie — November 22, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I prefer to read the dead tree version of the Columbo in the morning. I start with the funny papers. I mention this as an explanation of why I haven't responded to the "pot comments." After all, I -am- the "pot guy." ☺

I can't really comment about the Colorado raids. As all are aware I'm of the belief cannabis should be regulated similarly to alcohol. And only because I don't approve of juvenile recreational use. Otherwise I'd say regulate it like tomatoes.

On the driving thing...I can't decide whether I'm having reading comprehension issues this morning or if I really am understanding the numbers and words correctly.

Not to start off with a red herring, but know the 5ng limit has no basis in science. I just thought I'd mention it. But it is the law, so-

The article's headline reads, "More state drivers test positive for pot." I find that just a tad disingenuous. Postive and over the limit are not the same thing. And further, if you'll read farther it tells us out of the 745 tested, only 420 were over the arbitrary limit. Yes, I understand this is for a six month period: That in 2012 the number was 609 - for the whole year. 2012 exceeded 2011 by 103 incidences. What does this tell us? We don't know because we haven't enough information.

The state patrol spokesman states more people are being tested. That being said, how can we compare 2013 to any other year. The data is skewed from the get-go.

Kevin Sabet is quoted just below the headline. Again I feel the AP has tainted the article.
(Yes, it's Wiki. Deal)

And, believe me, I don't condone anyone operating a vehicle impaired on anything. However, I will point out:

It appears Mr. Sabet is fishing for herring, himself.

Drift — November 22, 2013 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hm, maybe my ginning was correct after all. Looks like we gin a lot in politics these days.
A society that spends most of its money on the military and forgets its citizens is doomed. History has lots of stories like that.
We just never listen.

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The broken tire-sized roller on the Interstate Bridge will need to be manufactured for a replacement (you just can't go to Home Depot for a replacement part). Bridge lifts will take twice as long, in the meantime, if they happen at all.

KOIN video is short, but check out the warning from the ODOT rep.

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jacj jack,

Oracle had on the shelf products that the state could have bought to roll out the ACA in states with a bit of tweaking to the software for about 6 million per....The state of Oregon however wanted to re invent the wheel ... I never read much on the ACA when it was being propsed until I went to a conference 3 months after it passed. We were then made aware of some of the forthcoming issues. None of which centered on the actual websites... It was all internal issues arising from instituting the ACA and it's affects on policy holders. I've been saying for several years now that we were going to see some huge issues arise from the laws passage that were going to hurt more people than help, Financially speaking... I'm kinda over it now and really over what our president has done with the ACA all by himself without any intrusion from congress or the SC. I guess I'm more disgusted.. I'm taking a break from the news on this front and others originating from the white house... It's amazing how we fret here about our local yocals when what they have done the past fews years has not hit my wallett and other peoples wallett like our current president has since he took office.

I'm outa here.. Hope everyone has a great weekend, be safe.

vanwadreamer — November 22, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Given the abysmal level of funding SW Washington is slated to receive from the newly revised Transportation Bill, it's apparent we've blown our chance and been sent to the back of a very long line of communities with critical transportation needs.

Unfortunately, for SW Washington, most of those communities are more unified and less negative in their approach and representation in Olympia. And those representatives, just like the massive California delegation, are licking their collective chops at the chance to replace SW Washington at the front of the State and Federal funding line.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Guys, went to Village Cafe for breakfast. thanks for the tip. Very nice place, fresh, good food, and great service.

luvithere — November 22, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK SW Washington has always been at the back for transportation funds for as long as I can remember. I don't think it is because we are less unified. Seattle and Spokane have always been placed at the head of the line. Seattle because the state has always catered to Boeing and Micro Soft. Spokane I believe was because of Senator Foley. SW Washington will always be the red headed step child. I don't see where that is going to change to much. There is to much big money in both regions.

timerick — November 22, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: You're right about Seattle and the importance of political power in winning the competition for State and Federal funds.

For demographic reasons, we'll never compete with Seattle, and unfortunately until we get our political act together, we'll continue to lose out to other regions with a more cohesive and positive political message.

Whether the CRC and its supporters were right, wrong, corrupt, inept, etc. is, from a strictly financial standpoint, almost meaningless to decades level planning. Ten or fifteen years from now, descendants of the CRC opponents will be organizing to oppose the projected $!7 tolls and half billion dollar pre-planning costs or the new bridge over the Columbia.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK you are wrong on one point. I'm going out on a limb here, but most of the CRC opponents were not against a new bridge. We were against the light rail coming across where it was planed. I will be honest, I have a dog in this fight. My piece of property that has been in business since 1952 would have been directly effected by the light rail. That is but one reason I took the stand that I did. Also I am not opposed to rail going to where it could be put to better use. Which I believe would have been better served if it went to HWY 99 park and ride or to Salmon Creek park and ride. 164th out east would have served more commuters to. Clark College just made no sense to me for several reasons. And also from what has come out over the last few years I didn't think we needed to partner with the Tri Met system.

timerick — November 22, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — at 2:30 p.m. I understand much of the CRC opposition centered around the light rail component of the CRC which is why I didn't mention it. The point I was trying to make was a 10-15 year delay..if things go smoothly... is a realistic estimate of the time required to get a new proposal to the building stage, and that delay is going to make the rejected CRC project, even with light rail, look cheap at two or three times the price.

And it's not like we're going to be welcomed back into the fold, taken by the hand, and brought to the head of the transportation funding line. We had our chance and now we'll have to live with the consequences good or bad.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes you may be right. In 10 to 15 years senators and reps. change which may make a difference. What ever happens we will live with what we got either way. I like to hope for the best and expect the worst. If we get good people willing to push for SW Washington in Olympia it would sure help. You know the old saying money talks and bs walks.

timerick — November 22, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The USS Forrestal was sold for a buck. The retired USS Enterprise was and could be still better than most. It seems updating would be billions cheaper than starting from scratch. With the F-35 and many others having the ability to do vertical take-offs, these huge, ungodly expensive carriers requiring pretty much a fleet of support ships seems a little over the top."

Actually The USS Forestal was lauched in 1954, commissioned in 1955, and decommissioned in 1993.
She not not sold, the Navy paid a company in Brownville, Texas to do the scrapping of her.
She underwent heavy stripping for parts to be used within the fleet. The navy tried to donate her to become a museum, but that plan never was successful. The Navy also tried donation to be sunk and used as a barrier reef, this also was unsuccessful.
She then was sold for one cent to a company in Brownsville, Tx for scrapping.

The USS Enterprise was a 8 reactor vessel. The cost to keep and maintain maintenance and refueling those 8 reactors proved to be too costly.
new vessels run only 2 reactors, a lot more cost effective.

The Carrier strike group; 1 carrier,(forward deployment) 1 destroyer, (antisubmarine warfare) 1 sub, (antisubmarine) 1 cruiser, (used for air defense) 1 supply, (this is quite obvious).

Expeditionary Strike Group; 1 Amphibious Assault ship, (dock landing) 1 Amphibious transport dock , 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine.

If the carriers are not built, where and what will carry the helicopters, F-18, mules (cargo, mail, personal), and AWAC?

jasonb — November 22, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb: All ships are built with an expected service life which, if exceeded, compromises the performance or safety of the vessel. The ship may still float or the submarine sink, but neither will be able to perform their mission as safely or as efficiently as before. The engineering calculations are too complex for me to understand but at some point in time structural components, including the hull, begin to fail. I know some submarines whose service life has been extended are no longer able to dive as deeply as before. (Hard to imagine a 2' thick piece of high strength steel wearing out, but it does)

With nukes the unbelievably high cost of refueling makes the decision to scrap and replace a bit easier. I think many of the new ships are being built with enough fuel and reactors to last the entire service life of the ship.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

The reason the negativity over the CRC rose to the levels it did was because it was going to do next to nothing for those who would foot the bill - the toll paying commuters.

I'd really like to see that $850 mil in New Starts money go to a useful project - I vote for the Honolulu Rail Transit project - running from Kapolei to downtown Honolulu, this 20 mile LRT will be able to move tens of thousands of people between home and work, and greatly reduce traffic on the H1 and H2. All things considered, this project is one of several that would be a much better use of limited taxpayer dollars.

As for that gas tax, the negotiations haven't happened yet. Presumably, if a unified front is presented by our local legislators, then some more can be moved our way. If not - well, jim moeller is already promising road use taxes, toll roads, etc.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 22, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.

You see, this right here is what Don Benton should be spending his time on (that's what he was elected to do) instead of "working" for the County. He was elected to represent us in Olympia and get us the things we need, not putz around with water sheds pollution. This really pisses me off, the guy needs to take care of business representing us. Either that, or quit and pretend he knows what he's doing for the County until he gets caught.

hawkeye — November 22, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger at 5:30 p.m: I understand the opposition to light rail and to a degree sympathize with its opponents, but regardless of its merits or lack thereof, a new bridge, even without light rail, is years or decades away and will end up costing local taxpayers significantly more than had we swallowed hard and gotten behind the CRC proposal.

Personally I always liked PRT options.....

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We can get a lot better bang for the buck with our state transportation dollars if our legislature would quit approving projects like the Alaska Way Viaduct replacement. A road would have been relatively inexpensive, but instead they opted for a $5 billion tunnel project. This was at the behest of Gary Locke and other local "movers and shakers", who insisted they had to have a clear view of their waterfront - this is (supposedly) going to increase property values and livability. (Sort of sounds like what LRT was going to bring to the old downtown.) For a while, the new I5 bridge was going to be a fancy structure that would compare with the world's great bridges. They need to build as simple and inexpensive as feasible - we can afford to spend road money to subsidize redevelopment efforts.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.

WVU's PRT system has impressive stats. What I'm not seeing is crime data. If this system attracts crime in a nice little college town, imagine what it would do here.

And could it work in a large area? I'm trying to picture the little tracks running all over the place. I can see building them as elevated systems, just coming to street level for stops. I doubt they'd be accepted if they were continually crossing the major streets all over town.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Got my copy of that tale of duty on the Kitty Hawk delivered today. (Barnes and Nobel carries it.) I skimmed through it a bit, and it looks like I'm going to learn a bit about the details of working the flight deck of a carrier. Cool. (As for the guy who fell asleep with the hooker and had his wallet lifted - well, growing up on Marine bases, I was raised to believe all squids were a bit short on smarts.)

roger — November 22, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for your input in this matter. I was responding to MRD's comments regarding why they decommission ships and why the build of new ones are important.
MRD tends to complain about it.

jasonb — November 22, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger: Many years ago, I worked for Metro Govt. in Mpls-St Paul. That was back in the days of UMTA and as a relatively powerful regional government, the Council was a major player in the 70's era transit wars. As part of the job, I spent a couple of weeks touring mass transit meccas like DC, San Francisco, Bloomfield, & Morgantown, etc. On the Colorado trip, I think we were accompanied by Prof Ed. Anderson (The PRT guru who the train guys called Crazy Ed) He was a little obsessed with PRT and one of those guys you didn't want to ask a question of unless you had the afternoon free.
Anyway, I have no idea how or if PRT would work here or any other major urban area. But nobody knew back then either and it's a bit of an expensive experiment. My comment on PRT was a bit tongue in cheek, but if Prof. Anderson is still alive, I'm sure he's looking at computerized driverless vehicles as the next 'big' idea in mass transit. And he may be right.

We used to say the difference between the mass transit debate and those over abortion was the Archbishop wasn't threatening mass transit advocates with excommunication.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Is PRT "Personal Rapid Transit?" Maybe, instead of Light Rail, the CRC could be a real pioneer and introduce these little pod transports? Is there any US city that has embraced the concept?

manthou — November 22, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 22, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

Actually, I suspect the current plan being floated had Benton's input and blessing. He's Vice Chair of the Senate Transportation Committee. It'll be up to the other Repubs to work with the Dems, and then the three Repub House members can get Benton on board. Whether this will happen??? Who knows; maybe we're being punished.

roger — November 22, 2013 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou: Yes, PRT is Personal Rapid Transit. Morgantown WVA is the only place I know of. It was a little Buck Rogers for the times (70's) but it got a lot of attention as an alternative to light rail or buses in the Twin Cities. Much of the support came from a group of influential movers and shakers who were also pushing to build a heavily populated 'Experimental" city in rural North Central Minnesota. That concept was an urban planners dream, but it ran out of money about the time they remembered to tell the farmers of their plans to drop a couple hundred thousand city folk into their midst.

JohnK — November 22, 2013 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Got my copy of that tale of duty on the Kitty Hawk delivered today."

I hope you enjoy it, roger!
Oh, and it was the America CV-66, not the Kitty ;^)

Look at the bottom of the article. She rests under 3 miles of water. The details of the "experiment" are classified.

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, I missed a parenthesis. Try this:

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 5:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not sure what's up with that. Copy and paste should get you there though.

Maybe sailors -aren't- so bright? ;^)

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 6 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning. We were having strong winds for days, but now we are having a burn ban thanks to stagnant air? What's up with that?

Anybody hosting turkey Day?

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Mister Lou Brancaccio...

I want to heartily thank you for spelling out the plot of a certain group (Klub) in local government with the most corrupted history every!!! (The PDC numbers in contribution support don't lie and they cannot be distorted by the news, Mr. Lou. They provide a crystal clear picture of cronyism and a strong lean towards nepotism.) You even went so far even to ADMIT that you "would never pretend that what you do doesn't have an impact on political races." Your own comment regarding whether or not there's political influence in your articles states - "It does. Period."

Ms. Stewart, bless her heart...was being civil in her way of saying for you to bugger off. She too spelled it out for you, but in your normal demeanor...tried to distort it in order to write your little "Editorial," such as it is. Oh...Lou...she made it absolutely clear in her message, and you think because she's not in city office, that she isn't still powerful enough to do something about it???

You can try to say it is an age-old political trick by those who oppose the negative political exposure you spread all over your newspaper/news site on people your buddy(ies) refuse(s) to support but you'd be contradicting yourself since you darn well KNOW you have the ability to sway voters with story manipulation to suit the process which fits the agenda of those who provide your paycheck. Journalism abuse in my opinion.

It's no wonder in recent years, the Columbian had to file for bankruptcy.

Once a sellout...always a sellout!

And that my dear sir is my FIRST AMENDMENT right to freedom of speech and it is my freedom of expression, expressing my 100% opinion. You and your buddies might be able to oust a couple political faces or threaten others with the potential of a lawsuit and remove certain people's rights from posting on the birdcage liner's forums or FB comment sections...but it will eventually come back and bite you in the yahooty.

The "fecal matter" is hitting the fan these days in Clark County...and anybody who has their hand in the cookie jar will soon find out just how hard that fan is spinning!!!

enjoy your day

goldenoldie — November 23, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.

Mornin' Luvit.

Too much wind power generation and an overabundance of electricity will usually spark a burn ban on windy days...8)))

Seriously...yesterday in my neighborhood there was very little wind and the air...definitely was a bit on the "thick" side. Seems most of the wind is south of Fourth Plain and east of I-205.

goldenoldie — November 23, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Anybody hosting turkey Day?"

I'll be on Orcas Island the 28th, luv.
I'll be in the company of Stone, Gator and Fried Fred (and spouses). For those unaware, the names are characters out of some obscure military memoir.

Gator and his Mrs. will be hosting.

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: We are going to be on our own for the first time in years. Going to the beach, so I ordered a Thanksgiving feast from Gray's at the Park to cart with us. I NEVER have done this, but I want a holiday from cooking, as well. We are taking the restaurant meal, in a way, with us :)

JohnK: I looked at some video of the Morgantown PRT. It very much is like a series of horizontal elevator cars. Get in, select your "floor" location, push the button, and off you go on the rail. Nice for a college campus or downtown area. I don't see it being practical for moving thousands of persons over great distances.

I think most of the CRC supporters who claim they wanted a new bridge but not LR, are going to be surprised when they find out they cannot order another one up, as David Madore tried last week, for another 10 to 15 years. His little grandkids will be in college when he gets another shot at his favored East side option, which gets him quickly to their home in Gresham from Camas.

In the meantime, I am planning my alternate routes to Portland friends and our beach retreat without having to use the Interstate Bridge, just in case those old rollers become a chronic problem. Still working on the old man to move to a city where multi-modal transportation is already embraced and built :)

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, we are getting blown away here by Gorge winds. Very strong.
Nice plans for Turkey Day, Drift. It is so beautiful up there, hope you have nice weather with that. Anybody near a beach (Manthou) - I am envious. I will be hosting the feast and starting to bake two days in advance. Big feast, will need three days to walk it off. I do enjoy the cooking though.

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And so Ann cherry picks her quotes? "Krueger is quoted that "school officials believe the jump is linked to the message that legalization (even though it is still prohibited for anyone under 21) is sending to kids: that marijuana is a medicine and a safe and accepted recreational activity."

Maybe. Or is there actually an underlying issue? Here, I'll pick me a cherry."Marijuana that parents or other adults might have kept hidden in the past may now be left in the open, where it is easier for kids to dip into it to sell, use or, in some cases, simply to show off, said school officials and law enforcement.*"

So, one might wonder whether legalization is the issue or it's irresponsibility on the part of the adults. Who's blowin' it here, the kids or the grownups?


*Read more: Pot problems in Colorado schools increase with legalization - The Denver Post
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content:
Follow us: @Denverpost on Twitter | Denverpost on Facebook

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere @ 8:39 am: It sounds like you are going to be having some good, home-cooked food and fun! Feasts are for eating, after all. Remember, you will work off many calories before hand in your kitchen. :)

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 7:58 a.m: Rather than reinvent the wheel in discovering campaign contributors are not always altruistic in their reasons for funding candidates or campaigns, you might look into refocusing your efforts to support some of various groups advocating for reform.

I’m sure you’re finding, openness and transparency in campaign financing is a joke. Last minute anonymous loans, dummy donors, untraceable money trails, and phony front groups are common with no other purpose than hiding the source of embarrassing or questionable donations from people such as yourself.

One example that should interest you is in today’s Seattle Times report of the Attorney General amending his $7.2 million complaint against the Grocery Manufacturers Association after finding an additional $3.5 million in previously undisclosed funds the group spent opposing Initiative 522.

In comparison, those donors whose names are publicly identifiable, are paragons of virtue, with, relatively speaking, little or nothing to hide.

JohnK — November 23, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I'm a little confused (again).

If the East wind is blowing so hard in the gorge, how is there a "stagnate air advisory"?

And the other thing, Turkey day. We did that at the kids house a week ago in Vegas. Since they are all down there and we were there anyway, it seemed like the thing to do.

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Campaign contributions - 2012 - Don Benton

Clark County Citizens for Good Governance
Shea Michael Anderson
Here's a link to Benton's 2012 campaign donors, including dates, names, amounts, on a spreadsheet on my Google drive. It can be downloaded into your own Excel file at your convenience. I'm going to use the info to file an FOIA with the County regarding any County communications and business done with said donors (well, specific ones, esp corporate donors) during 2012 and 2013. I'd like to brainstorm other possible uses of this information as well - thoughts?

langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That was an interesting Wiki article. I gather the details of the sinking are classified because if revealed would give ideas on the vulnerable points on a carrier?

Didn't know you were based out of Portsmouth VA. I had a friend on the Portland (he got out in '74) who used to "acquire" cases of good stuff like the Navy blue jean bells and the pea coats - there were three of us high school classmates of his at colleges in PA who were on the distribution end of his operation; we all made a few bucks off the deal. And then there was the old dive joint near the Scope in downtown Norfolk - I'm pretty sure it was called The Blue Diamond - that the sailors who thought they were good at shooting pool used to frequent. My brother and I made good money running a hustle there when I was down for the summer in the '71-'73 time frame (I was good enough, and my brother was very good) - the trick was to get the mark to think my brother got lucky when taking the big bet at the end. And sailors had way too much pocket money for their own good.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody hosting turkey Day?

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 7:52 a.m

Luv, having T-Day dinner here at home this yr. Invited 2 local military families to join us.
I'm baking homemade dinner rolls, apple and pecan pies on Tuesday, dressing on Wednesday and turkey on T-day. I'm also making cranberry salad. The families are bring the veggies and pumpkin pies since there are those of us that don't care for pumpkin pie. Yeah I know I'm strange for not liking the pie. Might be when I was a kid I ate too much and I got sick from it. Haven't eaten it since.

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, for those that are having their own turkey day, the cornbread/cranberry stuffing at Costco is fantastic. It's in the refrigerated cases by the meat department. Just heat in the micro and eat.

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 23, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.

I'm already a step and a half ahead of ya but thanks for the information. I'll check into the article you mentioned.


Luvit...This year, I am opting out of making the Thanksgiving dinner. I still might make the homemade dressing from my wonderful French Bread and all the trimmings, but it's my year for a break.


ELISI...what a nice gesture, inviting 2 military families to join you in celebration of thanks!!! Now THAT'S the meaning of Thanksgiving!!!

goldenoldie — November 23, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting idea.

///End the 1 percent’s free ride: Taxing land would solve America’s biggest problems///

Land value. If we want a real overhaul/simplification of the tax code, the way to do it is to tax land value. It might be the only tax we need. No sales tax. No income tax. No payroll tax to fill a Social Security trust fund. No corporate income tax that, as we can plainly see, offshores profits. No need to tax labor and industry at all. Just tax the stuff that humans had nothing to do with creating, and therefore have no basis to claim ownership over at all. You’ll find that almost all of it is “owned” by the fabled 1 percent.

And boy are they sucking a lot of money out of it. By far the most valuable asset form in the U.S. is real estate, and the majority of that is the value of the land, as distinct from the value of the human-made buildings. Economist Michael Hudson has assessed that the land value of New York City alone exceeds that of all of the plant and equipment in the entire country, combined. No one put any enterprise or cost into producing the land’s value – they simply bought it when it was cheap, sold it when it was dear, and waited for the check. “They” are the Finance, Insurance and Real Estate (FIRE) sector, and they capture 40 percent of the United States’ profits, despite the complete passivity of their profit-accumulation method.

Not only would a land value tax (LVT) drastically shrink that Wall Street bloat, it would have prevented the housing bubble in the first place. Land, after all, was the speculative commodity at play, not the houses themselves, which, as “Arrested Development” incisively suggested, were a bunch of crap. With an LVT, the cookie-cutter McMansions in suburban housing developments would only be worth the cost of their cheap paneling, artificial marble and the rest of it. Without one, they were wrongly assessed as being worth the value of the land they stood upon, which speculators bid up and up and up.

An LVT would stimulate urban property development without incurring the socially catastrophic ethnic displacement pattern we call “gentrification.” As that noted far-left rag the Economist notes, “Property developers … would be less inclined to hoard undeveloped land if they had to pay an annual levy on it.” Despite this, the new developments wouldn’t push rents up throughout the rest of the neighborhood, because the increased land value would be taxed. The rest of the apartment buildings in the area didn’t get any nicer. So why should they cost more? Urban land, scarce by definition, is very valuable. There is no reason to let a small group of rich landlords extract its value, when what created the value are parks, subways, local restaurants and other things the landlords didn’t provide.

read more @

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger did you notice that Lou pulled your early post and mine from the Stewart article? Or maybe I just missed it.

timerick — November 23, 2013 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 10:25: Good for you. The Center for Responsive Politics does a good job detailing and exposing the hows and whys of anonymous contributions.

I hope you'll keep us informed.

JohnK — November 23, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 23, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.

I think the posts you are referring to are still there. Sort by chronological order rather than social ranking and you will find them.

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick --- You have two posts and roger has one at 11:07.

langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.

?? Who's planning on using the data to run those searches - Shea Michael Alexander? It might be useful to check into his past political endeavor - running for Seattle City Council in 2007 - before giving too much credence to anything he says. I'm no fan of how our governments support Big Business, but this guy is way out on the fringes.

There were some interesting names. I presume those large out of state donors are due to Benton's ALEC connection. As for locals - so what? Any look at even remotely possible influence peddling has to start with Mayor Leavitt and PBS Engineering contracts.

Actually, I'm more curious about the amounts - why so many $900.00 and $800.00 donations?

roger — November 23, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, I also do not eat pumpkin pie. I will bake four different pies and two different sweet breads, so there is plenty for me. I am making everything from scratch, organic as can be. I have a vet we are inviting also, wanted to ensure he is not alone.
I got a few vegetarians also who get the tofurkey. The rest of us will tackle the bird.

This is the one day a year I cook all those American Foods. Xmas we do German.

Honestly, with all the baking and cooking, by the time we eat, I usually do not stuff myself that day. But the leftovers!! That's another story.

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Nail and Langenthal. I found them. When it comes to running this computer I need my 13 year old grandson. But they moved to Yakima. And it takes to long to go get him.

timerick — November 23, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 23, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.

roger- I read what he ran for. What exactly is it that caused you to note; "before giving too much credence to anything he says" and "way out on the fringes"?

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's a good read---- YEA! Let's build the light rail!!!! And more friggin bike lanes!!!

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

Something says that the LVT would have exemptions that corporate landowners could pursue, but would be closed to homeowners.

I just checked my house assessment, and about 1/3 is for the land and 2/3 for the house itself. The article infers this is backwards.

We all know how Uncle operates. If they're going to tax land value, then they'll create a whole government operation for determining value. We're sure to have a discrepancy between that value and the locally assessed value, and laws would have to be passed to regulate this area. Uncle would claim supremacy, and County assessors would sue claiming this Constitutionally falls under the purview of local governments. Eventually, the US Supreme Court would rule that a Land Value tax is different from a property tax, and that subsequently each could operate independently of the other. The additional LVT would push more people into bankruptcy, or otherwise walking from their mortgages, and housing values would plummet. This would cause a separate series of lawsuits. The housing industry would claim the federal government is hindering their ability to engage in business. Local governments will claim they can no longer provide the essential services they depend on the property taxes to finance.

This would eventually all get hashed out. But not before the rich have snapped up all the houses at bottom dollar when they get sold in property tax lien sales by the local governments. (And even that would take another series of lawsuits - who takes possession of the land for nonpayment of taxes - the federal or the local government?)

I enjoy reading The Economist to see how the rest of the world handles issues, but rarely see an applicability here. That pesky Constitution, combined with our widespread aversion to government, tends to make most of their ideas impractical here.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 23, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.

As I said, an interesting idea. I think it should be pursued at some level with in depth studying. Your criticisms seem to be mired in speculation and wild predictions. (light rail Déjà Vu?:)

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 11:31 a.m.

Primarily because he maintains that increasing taxation in downtown Seattle is forcing people outward to the suburbs, and that this must be stopped (or reversed)? His rationale is that they're destroying the various subcultures that previously thrived due to people being able to live in the same areas of the city.Now, Seattle may be a Liberal bastion, but that only goes so far. There's money to be made, and if you can't afford the cost then you need to move. Check some of the old NYC areas, to include East Village and The Bowery. Some of the vestiges of the old cultures remain, but those areas are now inhabited by the affluent. His insistence on reversing this process is why he was never taken seriously, and eventually had to withdraw his candidacy.

And I see him as now trying to interject himself into local politics. No problem. But this desire to analyze Benton's political contributions shows (to me) that he still fails to understand the difference between ideology and practicality in governing. We already have way too much of that around here - We need to recognize this and start ignoring those who can't move to the middle.

(What - You were expecting me to focus on drag queens?)

roger — November 23, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.

Speculation? Detroit is an excellent example of what happens when property taxes grow higher than the residents can (or want to) afford. That's why I posted those two articles. And I believe we're seeing the inability of federal, state and local governments to agree to work together every day - The ACA, marijuana laws, coal and oil transportation and exports, etc, etc.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.

I'd say that article supports what you and others have said all along - That for light rail to prove useful, it needs to run up the highways to where most of the commuters actually live. Building it on the CRC route to Clark College will do nothing to relieve the congestion on the roads.

He also has another stat that I think has been completely ignored in this discussion - The average commute time for Clark County is what - 27 minutes? Ask people in all those other major cities they compare Portland to, and in most people would willingly give up their first born and more for that short a commute.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 23, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.

To compare Detroit's woes to a massive nationally scaled comprehensive tax change and those affected as the 10:33 article talks about is well...let's just say it doesn't compute.

Your reasoning with Shea Michael Alexander's ideas seem to be narrowly focused. I thought he presented many of them reasonably. But then I tend to lean progressive/liberal in my thinking. A curse to some-a bastion of reasoning to many. :)

How 'bout those Ducks?

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well roger, you got that one right. While never having really been stuck trying to get home from Portland, I have done the nightmare commutes in L A. People here really don't know hat real gridlock and a commute means until they have gone somewhere else. Makes this one here look like child's play. Of course, there are times, what with an accident or that famous 205 bridge work two years ago where the morons forgot to let us know, things can get bad. But overall, it's not comparable to other cities. Just try the I5 in Seattle during rush hour.

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere, goldenoldie, I'm making my cornbread, apple, walnut dressing. Makes me hungry just thinking about it.

Just wish our daughter, soninlaw and grandkids could come, but costs more to fly down here then it does for a family of 4 were to fly from here to Ca or back east. But they will be in good company up there. They are getting together with other families of LEO's and having a pot luck so they will have tons of good eats.

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stop, Elisi, now I am hungry. Need lunch!
My kid is doing semester abroad, and way too far away from me. I know how you feel.

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL luvithere, your post about I5 in Seattle during rush hour..

Yesterday my husband was up there and called me sing.." I got to get out of this place, if it's the last thing I do.."

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yep, Elisi, there's a commute I rather not do. A mile per hour, and that sudden urge to hit a restroom....

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL can you imagine what it would be like if someone had a cup of tea and a bran muffin?

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A high fiber cereal.....

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.

We used Grays at the Park last year, and it was good. Hubby drove to pick it up while I set the table. A very good deal for the price, too. This year it's back to all the family favorites, but the men always do all the cleanup so it's good either way :)

Family tradition of each guest or family member saying what they're thankful for before the dinner is passed, and that's always the best and fun part. Well, that plus leftovers the next day.

jacjak — November 23, 2013 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: Good to know you tried Gray's last year and liked it! Gratitude practice works wonders for our attitudes, I think, year 'round. :)

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to add to everyone's taste buds, but the better half just brought home some wonderful mongolian beef (x-tra hot)from the Golden Palace in Longview. Great eats. (and I'm pretty picky when it comes to asian food)

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's a good thing the cat got lost on his way to the meeting the other day or he would tell all of us what terrible things we eat, bla bla.

luvithere — November 23, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Like the stuff myself, and hot is good.

Goodworld Chinese on Sandy Blvd (next to Parkrose Hardware and across the street from Old Country Sausage) is a good place for lunch.

There was a place on 4th Plain and 117th Ave called Fa Fa Gourmet that, about 10-12 years ago, was quite good, I think somewhere around 2004 they changed owners and the quality dropped until they eventually closed down.

I'm not a big fan of the all you can eat buffets, but The Great Wall down in Salem has pretty good food.

My boss and I spend a fair amount of the time on the road, and "Chinese" is about the only thing we can agree on. Next time we're going to Longview I'll tell him the Golden Palace comes highly recommended. We usually eat at New Moon, and your place is just a few blocks from there.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My favorite Chinese place is Beijing Palace on St. Johns. Great food and always very fresh. If you go for lunch or dinner, it's always more than you can eat and if you get it togo, they always throw in something extra like egg rolls or something. Prices are very fair.

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Those Ducks had their feathers plucked by a bad old desert cat. They'll be lucky to be in the top 10 after that beating. I'm rooting for Arizona State to beat UCLA; I'd like to see them play Stanford.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Ducks got plucked, stuffed and roasted today. Going into a game with the attitude of "entitlement" is what caused them the loss. 3 turn overs, down 4 plays what can one say..

As far as Asian food, Arawan on Mill Plain near 164th is our favorite. Husband and son like their Gang Ped, I like their pineapple/chicken fried rice. Fuji's on Chkalov is excellent.
Their Kobe beef is mouth watering good. Oldest grandson used to always order the calamari, I think he just liked to watch it "walk" across the grill while being cooked.

Beijing Palace is ok for say lunch, they use way too much salt for my taste. Silver Dragon on 4th Plain another good one for lunch or take out. Their deluxe special is enough to feed 2 for about $10.00.

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk - House of Beijing definitely has a lot of fans. One compared them to the old Fa Fa Gourmet, making this place a must to try. Thanks.

Pho Oregon (on 82nd Ave a few blocks below Sandy and across from some high school) is very good, if you like Vietnamese. Park in the back (if you can find a spot).

And if you eat raw fish (I don't), I've been told we have one of the better sushi places anywhere here in the Couve - Oishi Sushi, across the road from Van Mall at the lower end of the section Olive Garden is in.

Gee - Need a good Thai place now. There was a great one in Sierra Vista AZ (down the main drag from the Ft Huachuca main gate), but that's a bit far.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, OK, seeing as how Arawan advertises as being Thai, I checked their menu. Heavy on the chicken and beef only seems to be on the dinner menu. There were some tasty sounding meals, so I'll probably pay a visit. One problem, though - what's with the brown rice crap??? No respectable Asian restaurant should serve brown rice!

roger — November 23, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou and hawkeye --- I was wandering around the area of Beijing Palace today. Manthou has me trained to watch for "massage foot spa" places moving into residential areas. The only businesses I see are storefront churches and tattoo shops. [Is the term "tattoo parlor" out of date?] A new tattoo shop went in this week - that's three between 44th & 45th on/near St Johns. Today, I see Minnehaha Massage - foot spa across from Beijing Palace. I found out there are two employees and reflexology foot massage is $30.00. Walk-ins welcome. For every 4 hours, you get 20 minutes free.


langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Editor Lou was tap dancing big time over in his column. That was a pretty low life, disrespectful slap at Jeanne Stewart today. Now he wants everyone to think he was showing respect.

roger — November 23, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Go to Thai Orchid or Ginger Pop for Thai food, tho don't eat often enough to say what and where is good. Usually only there for lunch tho. Anything w/ heat and coconut milk and curries I'll try once. Like Tom Kha soup and just toss in the side of rice that comes with it. Thai Orchid is better. Hubby likes sushi and we go to Eastland Sushi. Again, not much to compare it with. His fav place was TommyO's East cause of their Ahi tuna trio and would always order sushi to go along... his version of veggies. Miss TO's but don't get downtown for dinner often.

jacjak — November 23, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Didn't know you were based out of Portsmouth VA."

Norfolk, actually, roger. Pier 12, to be precise ;^)

I'm having trouble recalling if Bunny's Trade Winds bar was in one, or 'ta other. I spent my first Christmas eve (as a squid) there. Two shipmates and myself frequented the joint. And yes, we shot pool.

We never shot for more than a drink, though - as far as _I_ know, anyway. It was a communal effort. There were usually two of us on the tables at a time. One of us usually had a row of beers on the bar in front of their stool. When the beer was gone, we checked our pockets. If they were empty we bummed change for the bus to get back to the base ;^)

Drift — November 23, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 23, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.

Hope you enjoy. I've gotten takeout from there 6-7 times and it's always been great. As with most places, to get it spicy hot, you have to emphasize-HOT! The portions are healthy also.


Always good to talk food in here. Most everybody has lived here longer than me, and I appreciate the input.

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now that corporations are people, can't say I'm surprised or why this disturbs me. I LIKE google search engines, dangit. Am just 'discovered' Simply Google recently & really like it, especially when I'm too lazy to know exactly what I'm looking for or in the mood to explore. So, living in a gray world being absorbed by borderless anti-loyalists is how complacency starts?

Glad the kids are coming over to play some poker soon. That'll perk me up ; )

jacjak — November 23, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — November 23, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.

Bummer jacjak. Hate to see google go to the dark side. It lends ALEC the appearance of credibility. Of course we have our illustrious Washington State leader of ALEC, the much maligned Don Benton, to balance this optic out.

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 5:54 p.m.

So are you telling me that "foot massages" aren't REALLY foot massages? I could really use one of those every once in a while. The old dogs start to bark on occasion. I used to have a hot tub that had a few jets in the perfect spot to make feet feel really good. I may need to look for another one of those soon. But I digress....

Really? No foot massages?

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail and Hawk kind of sorry about your Ducks. Not real sorry but maybe a little.

timerick — November 23, 2013 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As my Twitter feed blows up tonight, there's this from Arizona:

Amazing what WH will do to distract attention from O-care

langenthal — November 23, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy Ayatollah! Obama needed a win on the foreign front, and this is a big one.

///Iran, world powers reach historic nuclear deal///

The concessions not only halt Iran’s nuclear advances but also make it virtually impossible for Tehran to build a nuclear weapon without be detected, the officials said. In return, Iran will receive modest sanctions relief and access to some of its frozen accounts overseas, concessions said to value less than $7 billion over the six-month term of the deal. The sanctions would be reinstated if Iran violates the agreement’s terms.

The agreement is a long-sought victory for the Obama administration, which from its earliest days made the Iranian nuclear program one of its top foreign policy priorities. The administration, helped by allies as well as Congress, achieved unprecedented success in imposing harsh economic sanctions that cut Iran’s vital oil exports in half and decimated the country’s currency. But it was hoping to quickly finalize an agreement in the face of threats by Congress to impose additional economic sanctions on Iran.

Read more @

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Langenthal @ 5:54 PM: There is an ad in Backpage dot com for Minnehaha Asian Foot Massage "Grand Opening." If it is on that website, it is likely not licensed or certified and there are probably "extra" services, not listed on the menu. The "therapists' in places like this are modern day slaves, working off a debt.

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: We have been watching Aljazeera America on this Iran nuclear accord. Great, old-school news coverage.

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 23, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.

No dog in the fight on this end. For college football, I've been a Big Red fan for some time.

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 23, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.

I'm going to have to check Aljazeera America out, I've heard good things about it.

nailingit — November 23, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One problem, though - what's with the brown rice crap??? No respectable Asian restaurant should serve brown rice!

roger — November 23, 2013 at 5:49 p.m

We have never been served brown rice at Arawans. I asked one of the waiters once about it and was told that some customers complained they didn't offer brown, some requested brown instead of the white jasmine rice.
I guess it's a matter of trying to please some customers that they give you that choice. I'll take the jasmine any day over brown.

ELISI — November 23, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 23, 2013 at 7:23 p.m.

Old dogs barkin'? Try a regular nanicure/pedicure place. Hubby goes w/ me on occasion to Sassy's Nails in the mall. Lots of glass, shoppers walking by, no weird stuff. See men in there almost every time I'm there anymore. Rarely for a manicure, tho have seen that too, but the men seem to think pedicures are great. Not sure if it can be defined as a 'massage' per se, but it sure does spruce up the ole' calloused tooties, and then they slather everything w/ lotion up to the knee and 'massage', mostly w/ closed fists and softly beat the ole crapola out of the calf muscles & bottom of feet. One guy sitting next to me with his feet in the jetted spa said something like 'had I known this is what women were coming here for, I've have been here way before the time when I couldn't bend to trim my own toenails after back surgery.' And all for a bit over $20 plus tip. Quite a deal.

jacjak — November 23, 2013 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thai? Consider:

Though I could throw a rock from my place and hit the joint I've never ate there. I haven't the foggiest why. Before I read the reviews in yelp I already figured they served pretty good food though. The city cops and firefighters stop in regularly.

If you prepare Asian food at home you might consider stopping in at the market next door.

Drift — November 24, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hmm...I wonder why I suddenly have an urge for Asian Cuisine for dinner, today???
Thanks, everyone! You've given me some wonderful ideas!


goldenoldie — November 24, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Way ahead of you, Gold. I had Asian Stirfry for dinner here last night. trader Joe has a great Asian Stirfry mix. chop some chicken breasts, boil rice, done.

luvithere — November 24, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal's recorded tweet @ Cornyn November 23, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. is a great example of the partisan mindset Obama is forced to deal with. Combine that, with a leader of Israel who is nothing more than a warmongering fool whose main interests lie in self promotion, makes this situation more than a tough road to hoe.

Sorting through the hoopla and rhetoric, with regards to reasoning, this is as good a concise summation of the current deal I've seen.

///Iran deal a risk worth taking///

The deal struck Saturday in Geneva was as much to freeze Israel's edging toward war as it was to freeze Iran's nuclear program. For Israel, despite its apprehensiveness about the arrangement, to strike Iran now would make it an international pariah.

For the Obama administration, the deal offers multiple advantages. For the near term, at least, it is a rare diplomatic triumph. It arguably validates its program of sanctions by suggesting that the economic measures drove the Iranians to the negotiating table. But in addition, it not only forces Netanyahu to at least sit on his hands for awhile; it avoids the awkward situation of having to choose between supporting Israel (and inviting a major conflict in the region into which it would like be drawn) and appearing weak on Iran.

For the Iranians, the deal provides some relief from the hardships associated with the sanctions -- estimates run in excess of $10 billion and some suggest the impact might be multiples of that. (Europeans, Russians and the Chinese all also have been hoping for anything that might promise a restoration of economic ties with the oil-rich nation.)

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nailingit — November 24, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, we are not out of the woods yet. I trust those religious leaders in Iran as much as I trust the dude in Israel. The state of affairs we had was not sustainable, however. So I am glad we are where we are.
As long as we prop up the Israeli state, we will be the enemy. I also understand why Iran mistrusts us, given that we thought we knew who they needed as government back then.

Mind you, I got nothing against helping Israel, but they are no angels either. They provoke their neighbors quite nicely and deliberately with their new housing and the way the Palestinians get treated.

We, however, prop them up because we want one ally over there. And we want oil.
We always want oil. Otherwise we would be found nowhere.
Nobody is the nice guy in this situation.

Just my opinion, folks. Just disgusted with all of the Middle East and their stupidity.

luvithere — November 24, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 24, 2013 at 11 a.m

"Nails, we are not out of the woods yet."

Agreed luvit, and far from it. The next six months will tell the tale somewhat. I doubt we'll ever be out of the woods in that region.

"I trust those religious leaders in Iran as much as I trust the dude in Israel."

They are becoming more secular in comparison to many of their neighbors. The election of Rouhani is cause for hope. Iran having a leader who denounces the holocaust, is much refreshing after having one who not only denied it, (Ahmadinejad) but was vocal about wanting Israel wiped off the planet.

Netenyahu is a threat & menace to world peace. Once he's ousted, and Israel, if and when, gets a well rounded leader, there stands a chance for a real peace agreement.

"Just disgusted with all of the Middle East and their stupidity."

Same here. But almost as disgusted with idiots like Cornyn-McCain-Graham and others who trump war over peace, and will use any narrative to achieve it.

If Romney had been elected, right now we'd stand a good chance at being engaged in yet another war over there.

At least Obama is allowing diplomacy/sanctions to work.

Only my opinion & 2 cents worth. I'm still saving up enough for a mocha latte. :)

nailingit — November 24, 2013 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Agreed, Nails. Just what we need, another war.
Why do boys wanna fight so much?

We should always be careful to separate those governments from the people. I believe at this point Iranians just want to rejoin the 21st century.

luvithere — November 24, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Only my opinion & 2 cents worth. I'm still saving up enough for a mocha latte. :)" -- nailingit — November 24, 2013

Man, as much two cents as you've got, you ought to be able to buy the coffee shop.

I'll have a cafe Cubano.

roger — November 24, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of religion on this fine Sunday, the crap is hitting the fan with this article. It's amazing to me that so-called Christians can ignore the basic tenets of what they preach and profess to embrace.

To my knowledge, Jesus Christ never spoke directly to homosexuality. Gay marriage detractors seem to cite the old testament and Christ's fulfillment as justification. Randy Scott produced a great post that addresses this.

This is about equal rights. Plain & simple. I guess it's hard for me not being a Jerry Falwell type to understand why many don't see it this way. The shaming and vitriol directed at those who choose varying sexual practices are just sad, and un american.

Melons or pickles or both, why the hell should it matter to anyone?

roger — November 24, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.

At least I keep my 2 cents local. ;)

All out of the Cubano-sounds like a 'java bear' blend might fix ya up. :)

nailingit — November 24, 2013 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, when I read the article this morning, I knew the hate was coming. It's typically the same few people. I really wonder how thatJohn makes it in modern times.

Best to laugh at them, I found.

luvithere — November 24, 2013 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's not necessary to look too far to discover where much of the hatred is coming from.

“The former 5th District senator said Benton, R-Vancouver, got in her face and cursed at her last year, right after Pflug voted in favor of same-sex marriage.
He came to the front side of my desk and leaned forward,” Pflug said, adding that she was seated at that point. He put his face up against mine and yelled ‘F... you! F... you!’ And there was a threat after that, something about making sure I didn’t come back." (see link below)

Hopefully, all such conduct will be addressed as Commissioner Madore, Clark Co.’s Scold in Chief, and #1 Benton fan, has scheduled another sermon for next Tuesday’s Board meeting to criticize his fellow Board members and County residents for their lack of acceptable standards of integrity, decorum, and civility.

JohnK — November 24, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 24, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.

If he'd have tried that with me, the gap in his teeth would have been much larger. Hypocrisy, thy name is Don Benton.

hawkeye — November 24, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk eye @ 1:37: Don't go there. Benton has already billed taxpayers for airbrushing the gap out of his previous official photograph. We can't afford another gap.

JohnK — November 24, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 24, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

I got a bottle of "white out" I'll donate AND APPLY!

hawkeye — November 24, 2013 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: I read the "new and improved" version of Madore's "Integrity Resolution." It still has so many whereases that my brain needs a reboot after reading only 3.

It reminds me of Grover Norquist's pledge for some reason.

The language is still so murky that any talented lawyer could dip his/her legal pan into the muck and mine some fairly powerful litigation nuggets. As if Clark County needs any more opportunities to be sued.

Tuesday the Freeholders are sworn in and conduct their first meeting. Another interesting side show to watch. Looking over the list, however, gives me hope that these 15 persons may be the most promising elected officials in Clark County at the moment in terms of rolling up their sleeves and getting consequential work done. Hope springs momentarily, at least.

manthou — November 24, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah, Benton is a real tough guy alright. Seems he enjoys a policy of intimidating women only. What a guy. How this idiot appeals to anyone but the Loo Waters hate crowd is beyond me. Shame on those who support this misogynistic freeloader.

nailingit — November 24, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Last spring everyone assumed Republican Pflug would be defending her seat in November. She confirmed it when she filed for office May 18, the final day of filing week. But the following Monday, Democrat Gregoire announced that Pflug would be appointed to the state’s Growth Management Hearings Board. And to many it looked like more than a demonstration of bipartisanship. The announcement came on the one day of the four-year election cycle when maximum political advantage could be obtained. Because the appointment was announced after filing week had ended, it was too late for the Republicans to find another candidate — for instance, 5th District House Republican Jay Rodne. Yet it also was the final day for Pflug to strike her name from the ballot, enabling her to resign and assume the position July 1.

It was definitely what one might call a family-wage job. It pays $92,500 a year over a six-year term. The appointment also increases Pflug’s pension benefits by approximately $400,000, giving the package a total value of approximately $1 million.

By exiting that day, Pflug left one Republican candidate in the running – Toft, who had declared his candidacy months before. Meanwhile the Democrats had lined up a fairly strong candidate of their own, Issaquah city councilman Mark Mullet. Pflug promptly endorsed Democrat Mullet in the race.

Gregoire's staff was skeptical about Pflug's application from the beginning, according to records obtained and publicized by Republican campaign organizers. Staffers initially determined that Pflug shouldn't be considered for the Washington Growth Management Hearings Board because she didn't have a law degree, hadn't held local elected positions, didn't have any background in land-use planning and was late to file an application.

kn_dalai — November 24, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — November 24, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.

Too bad we didn't have someone at Clark County to stand up to M&M; about Benton. Maybe they did but weren't heard or more likely ignored.

hawkeye — November 24, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

To my knowledge, Jesus Christ never spoke directly to homosexuality. Gay marriage detractors seem to cite the old testament and Christ's fulfillment as justification.
nailingit — November 24, 2013 at 12:16 p.m

Gen 19:5-8
Lev 18:22-23
Lev 20:13
1 Cor 6:9

Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, but He did condemn all forms of sexual immorality:

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. Mark 7:20-23

There are two other New Testament mentions of homosexual acts, in Romans 1:25-27 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10. In this passage from Romans, again in the context of idolatry, Paul mentions women who "exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones," which might apply to lesbian acts

Now SOME Christians are strongly opposed to legalizing what they view as sinful behavior and a perversion of God's plan for marriage and distinct gender roles (Genesis 2:24, 3:16-19, Leviticus 20:13, Mark 10:6-9).
OTHER Christians view equal civil rights for gays and lesbians as a requirement of Bible teachings that we must act with kindness and respect for all people and avoid judging the moral choices others make (Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:1-5, Romans 14:10-14, James 4:11-12 ).

The latter is where I fall. I don't agree with it, not for me, but I can not and will not stand in anyone's way if that is their choice, they have my support.
I and I alone answer to God for what I do, and say and how I live my life, I can not for others and vise versa.

ELISI — November 24, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI and Nailingit...


What I have learned in my growing years (as well as continuing to learn to this day) with regards to religion and the personal choices people is wrong for us to judge the decisions and lifestyles of others and we should expect the same in return, although it doesn't always happen that way.

When we meet our maker (yes, even the Flying Spaghetti Monster), that will be the decision maker whether or not our choices in life were the right choices. We're born...we grow older...we die. Everything else in between is what WE make of it.

My advice to all...make the most out of life. We have only one chance at it. Throw away all prejudices, open your eyes and your heart and see just how wonderful life truly is...before it's all gone.

goldenoldie — November 24, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe they did but weren't heard or more likely ignored. -- hawkeye — November 24, 2013 at 4:21 p.m.

As stated, Pflug was appointed in May of 2012, and is a current member of the Growth Management Hearing’s Board, despite misgivings of the Governors’s staff over her questionable qualifications.

kn_dalai — November 24, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Burning Spear, from a European concert
(One of my favorite reggae groups)

roger — November 24, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Black Uhuru

roger — November 24, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Steel Pulse

roger — November 24, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Peter Tosh

roger — November 24, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yellow man

roger — November 24, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Wailers

roger — November 24, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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