Open forum, Oct 14-20



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Such a positive pair of comments to start the week here on the forum, holygrumpola. Thanks for starting the momentum in such a negative tone.

What you share won't change things. Get out and enjoy life today...forget about all the negative BS for just one day and be thankful for every second we're here on this amazing planet.

Not sure where Whinerville is in your book 'grumpola, but in MY town, it's a beautiful start to the week with wonderful blue skies, mild temperatures and colorful reminders of harvest time and the holidays right around the corner.

Seize the day!

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Got a fake email yesterday, it was from "Whatapp". It said I had a "voicemail" from someone in Portland. Just click here.

I checked out the address where it came from and figured it was all fake since I haven't signed up with Whatapp. That seems to be part of Google but I don't have it installed on any of my devices.

Just a warning, if it looks fake, it probably is. DON'T OPEN IT!

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye -

It seems that e-mail will ask you to link to sites that will download a malware application to your system. The main target seems to be Android users and "jailbroken" iphones - the impact on pc users is thought to be minimal. Still, your advice to delete this crap without opening is absolutely correct.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So, I'm completely amazed at the editorial in today's Columbian. They've been looking at local high school football programs lately, and noting that programs with a high percentage of lower income family students face a significant disadvantage competing with the programs from the more affluent schools. As the coach of Camas HS notes - His concern is how many on his team are shelling out the $300 to attend an Oregon State football camp, while the coach of a poorer school is wondering how many on his team have had breakfast. Well, the editorial summarizes everything, and concludes that there's nothing wrong. There are haves and have nots in life, the deck is stacked in favor of the haves, and the have nots should recognize this as a life lesson, and build character from the competition itself.

Interesting. We'll have no discussion on glass ceilings here.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger: I read that and had similar thoughts. I was glad to see the Camas coach voice concerns over the disparity between the haves and have-nots, and not share the writers optimistic view of the character building effect of poverty on children.

JohnK — October 14, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 14, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.

This is why many criticize capitalism. The have & the have nots thing. I'm not surprised at the editorial. Lou's disconnected swipe at the shutdown in his October 5th Press Talk column, "Stupid Stuff", embodied this type of thinking. If Lou isn't affected by something personally, then it's irrelevant or doesn't exist. Disconnected, elitist, whatever one would call it, it's pervasive in this community publication.

I don't look for him to engage anyone on this. He rarely responds any FaceBook posts to support a position. It's how he operates.

Great FaceBook response by the way. Since you'll be selling rocks, please allow me to provide them free of charge. Knowing that folks care enough to buy them will be gratuitous enough.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So what.
The whole deal (kids, money, sports) is a non-starter. The article is of no import in the least. What is the point in pointing out the obvious? People with bucks can afford shiney things. People of lesser means don't have stuff with quite the shine.

A poor(ish) kid likely isn't going to have a car bought for them for a 16th birthday. A poor(ish) kid isn't going to buy into an "ivy league" school. A poor(ish) kid isn't going to be going to a sports summer camp. Duh.

Poor(ish) kids don't get to buy their way. Poor(ish) kids must have born talent. Now, an article comparing talent with bought lessons I'd be interested in.

Phfft. The article isn't worth the ink (or pixels) it was written with. IMHO, and all.

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll admit to knee jerk reaction to the comments made here; I hadn't read the piece. I -do- still wonder what the point to it was though.

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If anyone has any doubt whatsoever as to what's driving this shutdown, (and the tea Party) then you're not paying attention.

It's sad to see people break the law and denigrate our President using our veterans as pawns. Kinda sick, and needs to be remembered big time in coming elections.

///Larry Klayman Tells Obama 'To Put The Quran Down' At Veterans Rally///

Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group, said the country is "ruled by a president who bows down to Allah," and "is not a president of 'we the people.'"

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come up with his hands out," he said.

Klayman was joined by a group of veterans protesting the memorial closures that followed the government shutdown earlier this month. The demonstrators, who were met by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and former Alaska Gov Sarah Palin, pushed through the barriers at war memorials and carried the barricades back to the White House, Confederate flags in tow.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.,

Actually, one of my thoughts when reading the editorial was that this was a somewhat amateurish attempt on the part of The Columbian to get the conversation going into the unfairness of it all, and then come back with a comparison to the Affordable Care Act - How the purpose of that is to make things fairer. And if so, I'm more than willing to go back and argue that if this is their real concern, then they should also be speaking out against the ACA and instead push a universal health care system. A universal system, with a percentage of your income taxed in your paycheck (as with Social Security and Medicare) is a system that truly helps the working poor - they pay less and receive the same benefit. It becomes something they paid for and are in fact entitled to. The ACA is more of an income redistribution plan - the better off pay a much higher percentage of their income than the poor, and are presented with the opportunity to buy much better coverage. The ACA also requires a much greater knowledge of deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance, annual and catastrophic caps, etc, etc, than a universal system would. And I don't buy into the argument that Bernie Sanders puts out in his newsletter, that this is a first step to a universal system. That may be what Nancy Pelosi and friends told him, but they are so far beholden to the health care industry that they have no intention of allowing this to go further.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 11:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've written previously I don't use a bong, crap. Is your memory so short, or can you simply not respond without antagonistic comments?

I've got some shocking news for you, too: No one ever promised me "fair." Anyone with any grasp of reality knows "fair" can be found in the forest with the unicorns.

As an adolescent and young adult I learned if I didn't like the situation I found myself in then there was only one person that could change it; me. I'm not saying the parents of some of those kids haven't found themselves in (financial) precarious positions not of their own doing. Poop happens. But, please, don't cry me a river. I've my own waterways to manage, thank you.

Your optical illusion is sort of cool. Can you make it quit moving? It's easy when you know where to look.

(darn it, i should never have bit that worm. there's a metalic taste ;^)

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 14, 2013 at 11:51 a.m.

These nuts will stop at nothing. Propping up our veterans as fools to stand along side Palin & others is nothing to them. If they want change so damn bad then they need to win elections.


roger — October 14, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.

Within the confines of our political arena, do you have a better solution? Health care as it was before the ACA was not sustainable. As for the personal mandate, Republicans tried to elect a President who pioneered this system in his home state.

I hear a lot of criticism over the ACA, (not taking this post so much as criticism, but past posts of yours) yet hear of nothing better to replace it with. We should work to better the shortcomings of it, rather than demonize it as the right has done.

After all, it was their idea.


"I found myself in then there was only one person that could change it; me."

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.

Well good for you Drift. You seem to have had the tools to overcome your situation. Many don't. Much of the problem with politics is we compare personal experience to experiences we know nothing or little about, then cast judgements and want policy based on it.

Share your insight with those (for a start) who are mentally/physically challenged through no fault of their own. Bring your lifejacket as there's quite an undertow..


We need a tune. Basement is dank today.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Within the confines of our political arena, do you have a better solution? Health care as it was before the ACA was not sustainable. As for the personal mandate, Republicans tried to elect a President who pioneered this system in his home state.

I hear a lot of criticism over the ACA, (not taking this post so much as criticism, but past posts of yours) yet hear of nothing better to replace it with. We should work to better the shortcomings of it, rather than demonize it as the right has done.

After all, it was their idea.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

Medicare for all.

After all, we do pay for it, don't we.

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. -- "Medicare for all. After all, we do pay for it, don't we."

Thanks. I'd have written paragraphs to say essentially the same thing.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 1:08 p.m.

"Within the confines of our political arena..."

Seriously guys...:))

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

from The Oatmeal ---

Call it Bartolome Day. Call it Indigenous People's Day. Call it Discovery Day. Call it Monday, if you like. Just don't call today Columbus Day.

langenthal — October 14, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 14, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.

Me no feel so good after that.

A Happy Bartolome Day as well.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"We just got highjacked by the extreme right that decided to move operations overseas to make more money and bankrupt our country."

Actually, the extreme Right didn't have a lot to do with this, unless you consider Romney extreme right and want to fault his company for cashing in on this. The most favored nation and tariff agreements under GATT/WTO (Kennedy, Carter, Reagan and Clinton) led to a situation where we were entering into trade agreements with countries that didn't have a lot to offer in return. But what they did have was cheap labor and minimal environmental concerns. We started the practice of offshoring back in the '60s - it made more sense to allow our own corporations to relocate and stay afloat than to allow foreign competitors to get rich selling their cheaper goods here. I was sitting in Poli Sci and Economics classes in the early '70s discussing the evils of the industrial age (The Greening of America was required reading), and how our country was transitioning from an industrial age to one where we worked in service-oriented jobs. I could see the impact, with all the factories in my hometown shutting down. Some claim Clinton finished the job with NAFTA; others see the efforts of people like Bill Gates to increase foreign worker visas as a continuation of this transition.

It's somewhat ironic that perhaps the earliest beneficiary of GATT - Japan - fell victim to it later on. I was in the market for my first color TV back around '75, and after a lot of research (my roomie Denny and I must have smoked a full oz bag of some good red bud while visiting every TV shop along US15 between Williamsport and Selinsgrove PA) I settled on a Sony Trinitron. One of my better buys; I still had the TV in Korea in '92, when the on/off switch died. Well, the repair shop informed me that it would take a long time to find parts (maybe a month, maybe two, who knows, ajusshi?), so I strolled off to the PX and bought the latest model Trinitron - about $200 cheaper than what I paid back in '75. I was back in my room reading the manual so I could set up the Nintendo I also bought when I noticed something - That TV set was made in Mexico. Labor and other costs of doing business in Japan had gotten so high, the Japanese corporations had begun offshoring. And that Mexican Trinitron was crap - it went to the trash bin three or four years later.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding your post about the ACA.. All of the Options are available to everyone, not just if you've made a few more bucks , that entitles you to shop for better coverage.. It's actaully much different. Someone making 35K with family of four can purchase the best plan for allott less than a family of 4 making 75K...That doesn't make it "AFFORDABLE" to everyone .. There are so many different variables to take into account. One thing that is correct, it is Income redistribution. Why should some have to pay 3 maybe 4 maybe 5 times more for the Same %^^%%%$ Plan.. Does that seem fair to you? This is Health insurance.. Obamacare was supposed to to save me $2500 a year well that Ian't happening... Auto insurance companies and Health insurance companies have been in the business 100 years, I doubt any of those folks were consulted for a better option...Oh thats right nobody really read the plan anyway..

vanwadreamer — October 14, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 14, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.

Maybe I'll call today my "Burst Your Bubble Day." Not only have I learned the dark side of Christopher Columbus, I've also learned that Drift has never used a bong (just teasin' you drift) and I was SUPPOSEDLY rejoicing with political corruption over the weekend on top of apparently being in the "Madonis" arena. All the time, I thought I was at up the yard and patio...making stew and baking bread...caring for my baby chooks...and spending well-deserved time with my family.

Geez...a woman can't get a break on THIS forum! She gets accused of everything just because she'd like to read at least one of the first two comments of the week written on the positive side. Something like good music videos, good laughs...something supportive of our community...something positive for a change. Not all this negative "the world is falling apart" BS. Instead...

Well, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah langenthal...Happy Burst Your Bubble Day!!!

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Actually, the extreme Right didn't have a lot to do with this, unless you consider Romney extreme right..."

How soon we forget. One of our problems with divided politics is the conversation has moved so far right, the old right is now the center/center left. And Ryan, AKA Ayn Ryan, the Miittster's running mate, would be a prime example. We were actually talking about zygote rights as human beings, privatizing Medicare & Social Security, and countless other extreme right wing points in 2012.

Something in the water today?...

///Romney and the Far Right: Mainstreaming Extremism///

Mitt Romney's campaign for the presidency has been one long exercise in giving dangerous, harmful, extreme policies a place right at the top of the presidential ticket. Whether the topic is economics, women's health, LGBT equality, religious liberty, the role of government, or the future of the Courts, Romney has sided with the far right, further mainstreaming ideas that were once widely considered to be fringe.

Romney has spent years trying to overcome evangelical concerns about his Mormon faith by pledging his loyalty to religious right leaders' agenda and echoing their concerns about secular government. During the South Carolina primary, he even said at a Ralph Reed rally that defeating Barack Obama would help bring about spiritual awakening and renewal in America. At that same rally, Romney denounced Obama, saying the president wants to replace ambition with envy and "poison the American spirit by replacing a sense of unity with a sense of class warfare." According to Romney, if you believe we are "one nation under God," you are not allowed to notice growing economic inequality and the fact that his economic policies would take a system already rigged for the top 1 percent and make it even more unfair to average Americans.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Health care as it was before the ACA was not sustainable.
nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

It's still not... at least until Jan. 2014 when it goes into effect. Hence the naysaying that is going on now, and will continue relentlessly until that date. Good article on the cost of medications in America in yesterday's NYT. Other than the tea agenda of dismantling the whole philosophy of democracy, big piles of money is still the visible part of their mindset, especially if ACA gets dismantled one way or another.

jacjak — October 14, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 14, 2013 at 2:30 p.m.,
"Someone making 35K with family of four can purchase the best plan for allott less than a family of 4 making 75K..."

Perhaps. I plugged in a family of four living in Clark County and making $35K per year (which is about 150% of the poverty level, but barely enough to survive on). That family will get a $347.64/month tax credit. Pretty good, huh? The cheapest plan, LifeWise Essential Bronze 5250 HSA, will run $84.22/month after the credit. It's a plan that requires using a preferred provider to get the best rates, and there's no copay for routine doctor visits. Adult eye care is not covered, and almost everything in the way of tests has a 20% coinsurance requirement until the deductible is met - and that can add up quickly.

And considering the other costs coming out of that $35K per year (perhaps $30K after taxed?) - rent, utilities, food, clothing, car and fuel, auto insurance, etc - this family would be lucky to afford a monthly outing to the cheap movie theater. That $84/month is going to cause them quite a bit of pain.

(I'm not sure if the link will hold; the page times out.)

So, how many preferred providers within 10 miles of the Van Mall area?;=lifewisewa&BrandingId;=lifewisewa&DirectoryType;=provider&NetworkID;=ALL&QSCorrected;=Y234JU&Accordion;=2&Distance;=10&Zip;=98662&SearchTerm;=General%20Practice&SearchID;=Specialty|186|GP

Two GP doctor offices. Not cool, considering the numbers who would probably select this option.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

About the 'In Our View: Playing Field isn't Level'...

It has to do with bricks, imo.

Tie a brick onto the foot of a small child. That brick could be poverty. Or a brick could be unqualified parental skills or influences (think religion, bigotries, disinterest). A brick could be alcohol or drugs in the home. Too many siblings. No siblings. A unhappy marriage, or.... Lots of bricks, and not always poverty, tho that is the most obvious with the largest brick weight. Now send that little kid off to first grade with her inherent bricks attached to their feet...2 or 3 or 10. And have them compete with kids who may have half a brick, or no bricks. By the time high school football season rolls around some kids had adjusted to the excess weight of a brick or 2, or maybe shed has 1 or 2 through their own determination or change in enviornment. Extrapolation of the median equation says even those who still have bricks or even shed bricks will not excel at the same rate as non-brick carriers. Not while being measured by the same paramaters, at least. Probably not ever.

jacjak — October 14, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.

OK, so you consider Romney (or on reread actually his running mate Paul Ryan) somewhere to the right of all rational human beings. In the interest of avoiding a resurrection and rehash of arguments that dominated this forum for months on end just one short year ago, I'll concede that point to you.

I was responding to a comment that the extreme right was responsible for corporations moving operations offshore.

They weren't. If anything, Democrats were. They're the ones who were promoting the one world concept. And to this day Repubs claim Ross Peroit, running on an anti-NAFTA platform, allowed Bill Clinton to beat Daddy Bush.

roger — October 14, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC I am not going to try to change your mind on the use of Coal. But go the DOE web sit on the history of Coal. It is very interesting and a pretty short read. It tells how we are using Coal and burning it far cleaner then I ever thought.

timerick — October 14, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 14, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.

(Yawning)huh? Wha??? What'd you say, holycheeseball?. Sorry, I've been asleep for the past 55 years (according to you). You are the one who has the knack for hitting the comment section with nothing but negativity, cheeseball. It truly gets boring...putting everyone to sleep on the forum. I prefer nail's comment and video link @12:48 p.m to jump start the week rather than your constant, never-ending, repetitive attacks on Madore. Rather than sit and whine...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Oh don't live in Clark County.


So..., you'd rather allow someone like Kitslobber to financially destroy your state instead??? Cheeseball, you're complaining about the Port of Vancouver and the pollutants they'd be bringing here...

How come you've never mentioned about the crap constantly spilled into the Willamette River??? What about the failed sewers? What about the ships in St. Johns on the west side of the Willamette and what they're pumping in and out of there, Cheeseball??? What about the port expansion in Astoria? Have you checked that out lately? Why is it your Guvner ain't doin' nuttin' in ol' Orygun except raising taxes???

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 14, 2013 at 3:31 p.m.

That's ridiculous for them to only provide you with 2 providers, given we're sandwiched between 2 hospitals and are encompassed by a mountain of medical facilities throughout our county. Top it off with the fact the bronze coverage is a joke...

Where's this quality healthcare for all BS in Obamacare??? The insurance policies alone will put families in debt and God forbid they have to face the deductibles should they have to make a trip to the ER. There's something wrong with this plan...something VERY wrong. Why is it they don't have one basic rate...the same for everyone, rather than involving the IRS and involving the price of insurance in the first place?

In my opinion, this is organized crime...telling us we MUST pay or they'll take it out of us one way or the other. What's the difference?

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 14, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.

Hey, say Benton is going to destroy our county (in so many words)...

Well tell me what you think of this land purchase, then -

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes, that explains it. Dumb and dumber

No wonder the people who shut us down are telling us they did not, 'twas the other side.
And we got folks believing it all....

luvithere — October 14, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 6:05 p.m

Just more land that nobody can do anything with and that doesn't pay it's way or taxes. I'm sure Benton the Environmentalist had nothing to do with this acquisition, it was probably something in the works before he got there, he just gets to take credit for it, which he will with gusto!

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger good comments you made on the facebook side. I agree with one of the others that it sells papers and that is what the C needs. Oregon is broke and I don't think they will jeprodize their bond rating for the CRC.

timerick — October 14, 2013 at 7:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, responding to my October 14, 2013 at 12:03 p.m. comment.

"Well good for you Drift. You seem to have had the tools to overcome your situation. Many don't. Much of the problem with politics is we compare personal experience to experiences we know nothing or little about, then cast judgements and want policy based on it.

Share your insight with those (for a start) who are mentally/physically challenged through no fault of their own. Bring your lifejacket as there's quite an undertow.."
(quote ends)

I'm quite surprised by your response, man.
It doesn't address my comments a'tall.

I'm thinking you didn't read what I thought I had written.

And I sit here wondering of my "situation." Hmmm, I don't care much for the physical aspects. With the peyronies's I've got to take care. I'll soil the wall if l don't pay attention. As far as being crazier than a bed bug, I'm just fine with that. Hell, I find solice in it.

non se·qui·tur (nn skw-tr, -tr)
1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.

2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seize the day! goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.

envy you the energy. but the rain's finally stopped, and can now get an est on a complete roof repair.the weeds are dying down at the pond's age, and i can finally see my beloved wood ducks again. AND the new little floaters, too. got a nice level of water in the pond, too: the water meter buried in my front lawn suddendly turned into a fountain feature....about 5 feet high.mostly drained into the little creek going around between my house and my neighbors'.

alll together a lovely, perfect day to be disabled and just stare outside. after all, with my car in the shop, Enterprise rented me a GMC Yukon, and getting in it is....welll...good exercise. even if i DO have to use the step stool the kid put in there for me.

all in all, i'll still take Life over any alternative.

DeeLittle — October 14, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Where's this quality healthcare for all BS in Obamacare???
goldenoldie — October 14, 2013 at 6:03 p.m.

Sometimes I cannot help but be astounded at selective comprehension.

Exactly where did anyone ever bill the Affordable Healthcare Act as 'quality'? After all this time and media coverage, and there's no comment or judgement over the 'minimal' coverage now available that happens to toss in a small smidge of preventative care? No comment or outrage over the color coding plans with no 'one size fits all'? No comment or snide remarks about preexisting conditions being covered in the ACA without the hideous price-gouging that is now, and has always, been the only available option for preexisting conditions? And which were gleefully cheered by insurers, but in reality available only to those with a Lexus full of gold? Where did Republicans fight to not include the 'each state can opt out' into the Act? Where did Clark County step up to be sure their residents had the best exchange plans available to the state?

There's probably not one person breathing who does not know the concessions made in copying Romney's health plan in MA in order to get any sort of health resolution for Americans. Folks keep yammering about single payer, like that's the only hill to die on, and everything else is not worth the effort. But in a society of 3+ million free thinking individuals, some is actually better than none, imo. Someone said these conversations raged repeatedly in this forum in the last 24 months, but as a somewhat newbie, just had to spat and spit a bit it too, and add my 2 cents.

jacjak — October 14, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

opps, edit correct...

300+ million....

jacjak — October 14, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 14, 2013 at 7:40 p.m.

I apologize for not understanding your post. On a reread I can see my transgression. Poop happens. Why I remember quite awhile back I posted something about veterans that was taken the wrong way or out of context, I forget which or both, and some poop was thrown my way. Sometimes understanding the written word can be a brain slog, and at times I slog with the best of them.

Peace, Goodwill & all that Jazz. :)

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 14, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.

I get it. I was just picking up on the 'if I considered Romney extreme right', which I do. (although for a buck two-eighty-nine Romney will swing in any direction)

I do get the NAFTA thing. Some considered Bill to be right of center on many things.

What do I know anyway. I voted for Andre Marrou in 92'.

(I won't say who I voted for in 1980, a wall I won't tear down. An unpardonable sin no doubt)

Some folks say the older we get, the more conservative we become. I've found it to be quite the opposite. I chalk it up to paying more attention to what's happening on the Hill then I used to, that, and life's experiences.

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 9:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This article somewhat speaks to my earlier assertion that our political discourse has moved far too much to the right. It's time we shifted it back. In part it's why we're looking at going over the fiscal cliff.


///Why the Shutdown is a Republican Victory///

The news from Washington is all about President Obama’s impending triumph in the government shutdown/debt ceiling standoff. “Boehner Blinks,” declared a recent headline in The Washington Post. “Republicans,” explained ABC’s Jonathan Karl, “are working out the terms of their surrender.”

If this is Republican surrender, I hope I never see Republican victory.

To understand how upside down the current media analysis is, you need to go back a couple of years. In 2011, with Republicans threatening to provoke a debt default, President Obama signed the Budget Control Act of 2011, which cut government spending by $917 billion over 10 years. The agreement also created a congressional “supercommittee” charged with finding additional cuts. If the committee failed to do so, cuts totaling $1.2 trillion over ten years would kick in automatically at the end of 2012, via a process called “sequestration.”

Traditionally in Washington, budget compromises had meant Democrats agreeing to cut domestic spending and Republicans agreeing to raise taxes. But by raising the specter of default, Republicans had changed the equation. In the Budget Control Act, taxes weren’t raised a dime. Democrats compromised by cutting spending and Republicans “compromised” by agreeing not to let America default on its debt and provoke a global financial crisis.

Not surprisingly, conservatives liked the deal more than liberals. In the House, Republicans backed it by a margin of almost three to one while Democrats split evenly. “Is this the deal I would have preferred? No,” Obama admitted. By contrast, House Speaker John Boehner boasted, “I got 98 percent of what I wanted.”

Fast forward to the beginning of this year. Despite months of negotiations, the supercommittee failed to reach an agreement, and so this March, automatic sequester cuts kicked in. (In between, Congress did raise some revenue by not extending the Bush tax cuts for individuals making over $400,000 a year). If Democrats disliked the 2011 Budget Control Act, they disliked its bastard stepchild, the sequester, even more. In his 2013 State of the Union address, Obama calls the sequester cuts: “harsh” and “arbitrary” and warned that they would “devastate priorities like education, energy and medical research” and “cost us hundreds of thousands of jobs.”

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Republicans, being less supportive of federal spending on things like “education, energy and medical research,” were more supportive of the sequester. Indeed, as recently as last month, GOP leaders described locking in the sequester cuts—via a “clean” continuing resolution (CR) that extended them into 2014—as a major victory. In a memo to fellow Republicans on September 6, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor boasted that by “signing a CR at sequester levels, the President would be endorsing a level of spending that wipes away all the increases he and Congressional Democrats made while they were in charge and returns us to a pre-2008 level of discretionary spending.”

For their part, Democrats bristled at the prospect of a “clean” CR. Four days after Cantor’s memo, the Democratic-aligned Center for American Progress warned that by extending the sequester, Republicans were “trying to lock these additional spending cuts into place and create a new baseline from which future negotiations must begin.” CAP added that “It’s easy to see why this approach would be attractive to Speaker Boehner; it is much harder to understand why any progressive or centrist would support such an approach.”

Let’s pause for a moment to underscore the point. In early September, a “clean” CR—including sequester cuts—that funded the government into 2014 was considered a Republican victory by both the Republican House Majority Leader and Washington’s most prominent Democratic think tank. Now, just over a month later, the media is describing the exact same deal as Republican “surrender.”

Partly, that’s because of Ted Cruz. Starting last month, as we all know, the Texas Senator—in conjunction with his fellow Tea Partiers in the House—forced GOP leaders to abandon the very “clean” CR proposal they had once championed.

The new Republican position became no funding for the government and no increase in the debt ceiling without the defunding (or at least delaying) of Obamacare.

Now that Republicans are backing off those demands, the press is saying they’ve caved. But that’s like saying that the neighborhood bully has caved because after demanding your shoes and bike, he’s once again willing to accept merely your lunch money.

Read more @

nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


what's the significance of your point? are you saying that lousy health care is fine for the "unwashed masses"?

have you actually entered into the massive ocean that is 'obamacare'? you'd find, as i did, some VERY alarming issues, not the LEAST of which is ALL OF OUR MEDICAL INFORMATION WILL BE FORWARDED TO THE IRS. you know...the same IRS thats been caught playing BLATANT politics with PERSONAL, CONFIDENTIAL information of US citizens....?

i'm not a reub. i'm not a dem. i'm a liberatian. THE SMALLER THE GOVERNMENT, THE BETTER FOR THE CITIZEN.

after the leaks revealing the massive attack on our 4th amendment rights, how could ANY rational-thinking citizen do ANYTHING but distrust our BIG BROTHER?????

DeeLittle — October 15, 2013 at 4:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And you even put it in caps, Dee. Your senseless satatement I'm writing of. Taking lessons from ELISI, are you?

Drift — October 15, 2013 at 5:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 14, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

Holyhockeysticks, if anybody is a Johnny Come Lately, it's you. Because I didn't meet up with Madore at his business doesn't make me a slacker. I wasn't interested in what he was doing. Fair enough?

Your "pro-Environmentalism" schtick you spew on a regular basis is basically flawed. You condemn the person only because you don't like the person or what he stands for...fair enough. It's in your demeanor....but when he does something that supports preserving the land...he's STILL not good enough (talk about flip flopping!!!). The man could stop the oil and coal port requests (which the State has already done that...temporarily, most likely)...and you'd still loathe the guy. Personally, I do not know Benton...don't care to know him...but I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt and will pass judgment on his capabilities at the county level till the 6-month period is up...and even then, does it really matter what you or I have to say about the guy??? Really's getting old.

I'll be honest about the example I shared...I believe the land should be managed by the land owners, not purchased by the county in order to preserve yet another vital part of natural habitat. I believe money could have been saved by educating the owners...but it sounds like they wanted out of the deal.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 14, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.

Hawk, I was merely proving a point with the other commenter. If you read my comment @6:08am to him, it might clear up a couple of thoughts you might have regarding my stance. I don't know if Benton jumped on the bandwagon about the land purchase after it was already in the works. The only way anybody knows is if they were in touch with the county before the purchase process began.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — October 14, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.

It was a beautiful day, yesterday...and today will even be better. The stars were shining bright this morning...crystal clear!!! Nice and chilly, enough to fire up the wood stove!!! Enjoy the pond for me, will ya???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 14, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.

You're right...we live in an imperfect world. Just what was I thinking when it comes to this brainstorm of an idea by our POTUS??? I still believe one basic (actually affordable) rate for everyone would do the trick.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""a buck two-eighty-nine???"""
nailingit — October 14, 2013 at 9:12 p.m.

Nails, did you get too much sun yesterday???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — October 15, 2013 at 4:55 a.m.

You GO girl!!!

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 6:18 a.m.

Would a dollar, three- eighty-five be more affordable for you?

hawkeye — October 15, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

[awaiting Boehner's latest hostage demands]

I miss Barney's frank take & common sense on the House floor. A good read.

///Boehner’s “a disaster,” Cruz an “intelligent fool,” and heroin should be legal: Barney Frank talks to Salon///

-Former congressman Barney Frank slams ex-colleagues, questions banks' clout, and predicts how the shutdown will end-

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Will these five female senators hold the key to a shutdown compromise: Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Kelly Ayotte, Patty Murray, and Barbara Mikukski?

Why do women make such good law enforcement officers? Because they know how to lead by LEED: Listen and Explain with Equity and Dignity.

I know, I know: it does not explain the likes of Michele Bachmann or Marcia Blackburn, but we're talking The Senate here:

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 8 a.m.

As our very own Cathy McMorris-Rodgers takes centre stage.......


Boehner and company holding a press conference stating they don't know what they're going to do!

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 15, 2013 at 6:39 a.m.

I'd just like to see that monetary amount written out. Either it's a buck-eighty nine ($1.89) or two eighty nine ($2.89), wouldn't you think???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've used "a buck-two-ninety-eight" for years to insinuate a paltry amount. The denomination doesn't exist in reality. It can't be written as a monetary amount.

Drift — October 15, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.

Terms used when speaking of indeterminate monetary value.

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- Twice in two days. AAHHHH!

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift and Nails...thanks for letting me know. I've never heard of that term before.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 15, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.

Putting more panic in the minds of the meager???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 15, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.

Nyerf derf...blaah, blaah, blaah...

Same old, same old sheep dip, different day.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 15, 2013 at 8:48 a.m.

I've used a "buck-two-eighty-nine" since I was a kid. A "buck-two-ninety-eight" minus a "buck two-eighty-nine" = a "half-buck-41".


What's in the fridge. I'm starving...

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9 a.m.

I've got some homemade ham pockets and some zucchini bread I'd send your way if it were possible...8))

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And I wouldn't charge a Buck-Two eighty nine, either.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

***Breaking News***

It's Global Handwashing Day!!! Happy Hand Washing!

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.

Since you're a professed republican, having your pockets lined with pork only makes sense. ;)

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.

Professed or confessed???

BTW, it's turkey ham.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hey holycrappymess what has happened to the days of your doomsday talk when the occupiers were in the streets? you know preaching to all about hoarding food, grow your own, have an escape route, like you do with your *clear throat* sailboat? you used to preach about this day after day. not interested in prepper talk anymore so you have moved on to madore?
what's with your hatred of madore dude, is it cause he turned you down on a business deal?
madore is just another man who puts his pants on, one leg at a time like you do. to have so much hate as you do dude at madore and benton is toxic to your soul.
you need to cleanse yourself of such hate, a nice green tea enema a couple times a day would do you wonders and put a smile on your face.

jasonb — October 15, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Professed or confessed???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.

v. pro·fessed, pro·fess·ing, pro·fess·es. 1. To affirm openly; declare or claim

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.

v. con·fessed, con·fess·ing, con·fess·es. 1. To disclose (something damaging or inconvenient to oneself); admit.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

v. con·fessed, con·fess·ing, con·fess·es. 1. To disclose (something damaging or inconvenient to oneself); admit.

In context, I was correct with my word usage. However given your admission as a republican, confess is apropos. I hope it is good for your soul. :)

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 8 a.m.

Not to undermine your post in the least. I've long advocated for more women in government. A 50-50 balance would be ideal in my opinion.

It use to be Senate politicians were taken a little more seriously than the House. But with Cruz & some others that thought has rapidly diminished.

I'm of the opinion members of the female persuasion can be just as unreasonably demanding, opinionated and stubborn as their male counterparts. It's just that men dominate Congress.

Considering 16 out of 20 sitting U.S. Senators are Democrat, I'd say Republicans need to kick it in gear!

But yeah, women do provide a different dynamic, many times based on life experience men don't have. And we certainly need that in Congress.

Hillary in 16'!

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrappymess no bong here, don't smoke, shoot, sniff or swallow nor do I drink so lay off the bs. those who accuse are the ones who use.
after you met madore at his business you mentioned that you had a deal for a tv program you pitched to him and he declined. now nothing but daily rants of hatred towards him. just like the daily rants you use to do about city hall after you were thrown out errr escorted out.
only one ranting is the bs king.

escape route
organic foods

the list grows

jasonb — October 15, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hahahahahah best get my waders on, sure is getting deep in here.

jasonb — October 15, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I do agree that generalizations about either gender do not make good evidence. :) I hope that Hilary runs, but, she may walk away from this. The road ahead will get ugly during a campaign. Can you just imagine?

I think the President is holding the line and willing to go over the edge. I just hope my retirement savings holds up once we default, however. I have been reading some very interesting protective solutions from financial wizards who are not crazy. One advisor said: get out of the stock market; put your money in cash, gold, and your owner-occupied home and then buy a gun to protect it. Egads. He cited Joseph Kennedy's good luck in getting out of stocks in 1928 to more than luck.

Good local economic news, though: According to a new article by Stephanie Rice, Vancouver is on the verge of selling its building at 610 Esther Street for $5.09 million to the developer who is building those apartments at the old Dulin's site on Main and Washington.

This developer obviously thinks light rail will bring residents and businesses needing office space our way. Hope he is right.

Vancouver is going to be in a lot better shape financially than the County, who must find a way to pay $10.5 to the innocent men who spent 17 years incarcerated.

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Did you watch BoCC today? Mielke called those men criminals. Stuart spoke up so Madore chimed in with "allegedly" [smirk/wink].

Stick with it to Board communications. Madore reads his proposed integrity resolution. Madore and integrity in the same sentence. Would have loved to see him on a BP monitor as he read. He can't mask his tension. Watch how awkward it is when Stuart asks if he shared the res with anyone prior to mtg. He volunteers after he reads that he had given it to Mielke & others. He also shared that he will continue to post on FB and he will post the res on FB.

This is the second time I've heard him refer to working during the night. His FB posts show this too. This is not going to end well. He is on a mission. He has to save our [Clark County] reputation.

langenthal — October 15, 2013 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal at 12:34 p.m. That was quite a meeting today, and it didn't even last an hour. Here's a tweet from Paul Montague regarding Madore's resolution:

Paul Montague ‏@pmontag3 2h
I won't say Commish Madore has been smoking anything, but today's resolution restoring integrity to the Clark County Commission is strange.

Also, this from Columbian reporters:
Erik Hidle ‏@col_clarkgov 2h
I guess this resolution calls for the county to pay for a forensic analysis of CRC.
10:40 AM - 15 Oct 13 · Details

Columbian Metrodesk ‏@Col_cops 2h
@col_clarkgov That would be a story, actually, if the commisson votes to spend gen. fund money on CRC. Thought they were against that?

Hmm. The devil's in the details.

pfaffmachine — October 15, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal and pfaffmachine: I missed watching the BOCC live and will catch it online.

I do think Madore is coming unglued. When he does not have full control or the illusion of full control, he cannot cope. Here is what my experienced eye has observed: grandiosity; mania in the form of late night FB rants and resolutions that are full of self-promotion and non-sequeters; flashes of anger when he does not get his way; mean-spirited pay backs and threats to those who he thinks are out to get him (Tom Wolfendale; Jeff Hamm; Steve Stuart; Jack Burkman; Ron Onslow; Jim Irish; Sean Guard, etc). Put 'em together, and what have you got? Bippety Boppety Boo. :)

The men who Clark County's irresponsible employees put behind bars for 17 years have been cleared by DNA. So I guess that makes them more than "alleged", Mr. Mielke, they are "innocent." Pay up and make sure Clark County follows best practices criminal justice next time.

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's just stirring the pot and attempting to energize his base with cheap political stunts meant to prompt a reaction from his opponents which he can then use against them. It's an old game of the same genre that Cruz/Palin are pulling with our National Monuments.

Expect the brochures to show up in tomorrow's mail. I'm sure they've already got them printed.

JohnK — October 15, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 1:28 p.m. Agreed. I suspect Madore has never experienced this level of pushback, nor has he acquired the skills to deal with it in a more appropriate manner.

I hope Mielke gets some significant pushback regarding his "criminals" comment. Walk a mile in their shoes, Commissioner.

pfaffmachine — October 15, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine --- Mielke was way out of line. He said they were there. I haven't seen that in any of the reports. Madore chiming in with "allegedly" made the whole discussion unseemly. They said this at a BoCC meeting on tape. I will never cease to be amazed.

JohnK --- You are right. All this recent activity has given them an excuse to rally the base and with that comes contributions and getting out the vote. "Gotta get that pro-citizen" slate elected.

manthou and pfaffmachine - The manic phase will wax and wane but short and balding will remain! Smile. [Don't underestimate those traits on a man with his issues.]

langenthal — October 15, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — October 15, 2013 at 11:03 a.m.

I believe the person you are speaking of had issues with the county auditor's office. Hmm...auditors...Tiffany Couch, licensed forensic of her stuck in his mind...

Do we have the makings of a daytime drama show here???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In June, Madore told Stuart during a board time meeting: "Once a policy is set, the time to campaign against it is over. As official voice from the county, the time to support that is something I think we all need to get on board, and at least not continue to campaign against it."

Does anyone else see the irony here?

hawkeye — October 15, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well folks, you gotta give points to Madore for one thing for sure. He's truly doing things differently from everyone else. It all looks like a B-rated snooze of a that makes it to the top of the charts for the Razzie Award.

Hey 'bout doin' some REAL work for a change to improve Clark county rather than all this ".... ...." (fill in the blank) For that matter, the same could be said for City, State and Federally-elected officials.

60-93% of the Americans polled (multiple polls taken) said they'd like to fire all members of Congress. What's that tell ya???

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So everyone...

Do you think we'll ever see the elected ones get back to work rather than continue with this "You're wrong, I'm way or no way" attitude??? If you look around at all branches of's a festering disease more rampant than typhoid.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye --- Stuart brought that up briefly.


Story is up but this is one to watch on CVTV. Erik tweeted the mtg also.

langenthal — October 15, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal...regarding the article...

It is my opinion that an afterthought by our elected officials is worthless and that is just what Madore's asking for. They should have done the job right the first time. Now any vote by the people regarding light rail M&O; is nothing but a joke on the taxpayers... rubbing salt on the wound to those in opposition for sure. It's no wonder so many people are fired up about the subject.

The powers that be decided a long time ago that I-5 is one of the main branches of the Corridor of the Future and in order to be functional, it had to be high capacity transit. The opposition for the most part was because we voted down light rail and anything to do with financing it. The majority of the opposition sided with Bus Rapid Transit but that wasn't good enough for the powers that be. A little rubbing of elbows between TriMet, FTA and a few other groups sealed the deal to be light rail. To Hell with the taxpayers/voters and what they wanted.

Seems to be the mentality of our government these days. Our opinions are worthless unless we're part of the top 1%.

goldenoldie — October 15, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Fortunately Madore's resolution is a draft and will be subject to legal review, but I can't imagine admitting to fraud,corruption, malfeasance, and other offenses, with respect to the CRC, will do anything but make a trial unnecessary for any attorney with a client who believed Clark Co was negotiating in good faith.

JohnK — October 15, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

More R's trying to distance themselves from the baggers. Can't blame 'em.

Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, said it was time to get a deal done after lengthy delays he blamed on the unrealistic goal set by GOP conservatives of gutting Obamacare.
"The fact is we've got to figure out a way to move ahead," he told CNN's "New Day" on Tuesday. "In fairness, on our side of the aisle, we've wasted two months, focused on something that was never going to happen."

As far as Madore admitting to fraud and corruption by elected officials, he's really only speaking of himself and his sidekick, unless he feels they're guilty by association. To bad he and the baggers in the House aren't facing an election next month, might solve a lot of problems.

mrd — October 15, 2013 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone know who gave Madore that "Achievement" certificate he placed oh-so-conspicuously in front of the camera today? I tried to enlarge it, but it was illegible and fuzzy.

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrappymess you remind me of the boy who cried wolf one too many times.

jasonb — October 15, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m: Too fuzzy for my monitor also, but I think it was signed by a Senator Don....couldn't make out the last name....something about his jobs program.

JohnK — October 15, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Again, that act (placing an Achievement certificate) in full view of the camera speaks volumes about Madore. He is playing to his base, very insecure, or both. :)

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Did you see Vancouver CC meeting last night? Mayor Leavitt was presented with certificate/plaque in recognition of the 28 veteran functions he has attended. The veterans that presented it made a point of inviting him to ceremonies at 11 am on 11/11/13. Remember how D Peterson told him not to come to any more veteran events?

I think Madore had to play neener, neener, neener, I got one too.

roger --- Benton as Guest Columnist:

langenthal — October 15, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Christian delusions are driving the GOP insane///

-Why aren't Republicans more frightened of a shutdown and a default? Part of the reason is magical thinking-

[[[The press often talks about the Tea Party like they’re secularist movement that is interested mainly in promoting “fiscal conservatism”, a vague notion that never actually seems to make good on the promise to save taxpayer money. The reality is much different: The Tea Party is actually driven primarily by fundamentalist Christians whose penchant for magical thinking and belief that they’re being guided by divine forces makes it tough for them to see the real world as it is.

It’s not just that the rogue’s gallery of congress people who are pushing the hardest for hostage-taking as a negotiation tactic also happens to be a bench full of Bible thumpers. Pew Research shows that people who align with the Tea Party are more likely to not only agree with the views of religious conservatives, but are likely to cite religious belief as their prime motivation for their political views.  White evangelicals are the religious group most likely to approve of the Tea Party. Looking over the data, it becomes evident that the “Tea Party” is just a new name for the same old white fundamentalists who would rather burn this country to the ground than share it with everyone else, and this latest power play from the Republicans is, in essence, a move from that demographic to assert their “right” to control the country, even if their politicians aren’t in power.

It’s no surprise, under the circumstances, that a movement controlled by fundamentalist Christians would be oblivious to the very real dangers that their actions present. Fundamentalist religion is extremely good at convincing its followers to be more afraid of imaginary threats than real ones, and to engage in downright magical thinking about the possibility that their own choices could work out very badly. When you believe that forcing the government into default in an attempt to derail Obamacare is the Lord’s work, it’s very difficult for you to see that it could have very real, negative effects.

It’s hard for the Christian fundamentalists who run the Republican Party now to worry about the serious economic danger they’re putting the world in, because they are swept up in worrying that President Obama is an agent of the devil and that the world is on the verge of mayhem and apocalypse if they don’t “stop” him somehow, presumably be derailing the Affordable Care Act.]]]

Read more @

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///House Financial Services Committee Given Grave Warning on Debt Ceiling///

-Business leaders are warning about the dire consequences of default, but in some ways they’re getting what they paid for—they overwhelmingly backed GOP congressional candidates in 2012, including Ted Cruz.-

At the very moment that congressional negotiations over the debt ceiling broke down Tuesday, a group of business and economic experts were issuing a dire warning to Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) and nine other Democratic members of the House Financial Services Committee about what will happen if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling this week.

“It would be a recovery killer,” said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of public policy at the Financial Services Roundtable. “Whatever recovery we’re experiencing now, it may be modest, slow, and we may be bouncing along the bottom, but at least we’re moving in the right direction. A default, a real default, would halt that and reverse it.”

James Chessen, chief economist for the American Bankers Association, told the panel, “If there is actually a default, that will send ripples through the economy that will not only affect the credibility of the United States but every business decision that is made here.”

A default will lead to a liquidity crisis “potentially orders of magnitude worse” than 2008, predicted Damon Silvers, policy director of the AFL-CIO. “There will certainly be cascading effects, many of which will be long lasting.”

No Republicans attended the briefing, but the Democratic members heard those dire warnings just a day after after Blackstone Group chairman Tony James told CBS News that Congress is “spinning the cylinder on the gun” by waiting to deal with the debt limit. He also warned that that nothing short of “Armageddon” would visit the U.S. economy if congressional leaders do not reach a deal by November 1.

Although Congress is dealing with the potential crisis only now, business leaders have been warning for months about the potentially calamitous effects of allowing the country to default on its debt or even getting close to the October 17 deadline.

In early October, AT&T; chairman and CEO Randall Stephenson called the chance that the U.S. could default on its debt “unthinkable” and “the height of irresponsibility for any public official to consider such a course.” At a Senate Banking Committee hearing last week, Frank Keating, president of the American Bankers Association and a former Republican governor of Oklahoma, warned that the damage from default would have to be measured in hundreds of billions of dollars. “If Congress fails to act and we hit the debt ceiling, we will set off a chain of events that will cover our entire economy and impact all Americans,” he said.

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


But if Keating is frustrated with Congress, in some ways he is just getting the government the ABA has paid for. During the 2012 campaign cycle, the association gave $2.5 million to congressional candidates, with 80 percent, or $2.08 million, going to Republicans. Among the GOP candidates the ABA donated to last cycle are those who championed a strategy of trying to defund Obamacare, including then-candidate Ted Cruz, who received $15,000.

The ABA also gave thousands of dollars to members of Congress who now say the U.S. can go through the debt ceiling without harmful effects, including $2,500 to Rep. Ted Yoho (R-FL), who has said breaking the debt ceiling “would bring stability to the world markets;” $10,000 to Rep. Scott Garrett (R-NJ), who said he won’t vote to increase the debt limit without also defunding Obamacare, and $7,500 to Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-SC), who told National Journal, “We’re not going to default; there is no default.” The ABA declined to comment on its PAC giving for this story.

But the ABA was hardly alone among business interests that gave more to Republicans than to Democrats in recent cycles, particularly as Democrats pushed regulatory reforms such as the Dodd-Frank Act and Obamacare. According to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, in the 2012 campaign cycle, the financial services industry gave a collective $276.7 million, with 69 percent going to Republicans and 31 percent to Democrats, while insurance interests gave $4.8 million with 61 percent going to Republicans.

The lopsided nature of business contributions has angered Democrats over the last two campaign cycles in particular, as Tea Party candidates have won seats that once belonged to conservative Democrats and Democratic members have ridden to the rescue of Wall Street on votes like TARP and the 2011 debt ceiling increase, when Republicans would not.

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 11:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


“I wonder how many times we have to go through this before Wall Street gets the idea that when a crisis hits, one party is predominantly the adults in the room and one party is the ideological party that actually drives us up to this ledge?” said Rep. Bill Foster (D-IL) on Tuesday.

A Democratic lobbyist said the current debt ceiling crisis may not change business interests’ giving patterns radically but could lead some groups to focus more on moderate Republicans or stay out of races altogether, if a Tea Party candidate is the only Republican in the field.

“I sit through meetings now with Republican lobbyists and it’s grim,” the Democratic lobbyist said. “To some degree they made this investment in the Republicans in the House, and this is what they have to show for it.”

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 11:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.

Was it dated? It might have been something he earned in grade school. Best guess...

Bob Keeshan?

nailingit — October 15, 2013 at 11:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 15, 2013 at 7:08 p.m.

Go do some homework on Oregon's failing bridges including the Marine Drive overpass, the slough bridge just south of Hayden Island, the Vista Bridge, the Steel Bridge and just about all the others in the Portland region, holyhellraiser. There are quite a few more bridges in the Portland area which could collapse in a much lower strength tremor than what it would take to collapse the I-5 bridges. As I've said a zillion times before...if we had anything over a 7.2 (depending on type, depth and frequency), the least we'd be worrying about would be the I-5 Bridges. Senator Benton is only reflecting upon the factual data given in the reports.

holycrapola — October 15, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

Did I spark a nerve??? I was merely reflecting upon my memory of past comments...sharing them with JasonB. Regarding Madore and MAX...good for him. I too won't be riding the loo of Portland and I certainly wouldn't take I-5 Bridges into Po'land. And C-Tran...they've lost me as a customer. That funding coming out of my pockets for the loo...and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this opinion.

Did you see that Governor Inslee said NO funding for the CRC from the Washington State Transportation Package? It's about time he realized the folks of Washington refuse to pay for Oregon's folly. Too bad the C-Tran board has violated RCW's in order to get a jump start ahead of the voters' final decision. Seems to me, there's major legal battles ahead. It ain't over yet, Bubba!

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oregon officials to Federal judge: We don't need legislative approval to continue to spend money on the CRC.

From WW and Andrea Damewood (the internal link to the smoking gun document is broken. Did DOT remove it?)

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Remember's Lew's blog. He can do whatever he pleases. Anything's his business. If he chooses to say who he recommends for political office...that's his thing.

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That is the problem. The polarization of our country, it is destroying it. I have heard that many times as well as of lately.

holycrapola — October 16, 2013 at 8:13 a.m

By chance are you talking about things like this HC?

Obama adviser ‘architect’ of showdown: author

It was Jarrett who advised Obama that voters would mostly blame Republicans if the federal government ground to a halt, providing a golden opportunity to swing back control of the House to Democrats in the 2014 mid-term elections, according to Klein.
A Democratic House would give Obama an opportunity to pass immigration and other legislation blocked by the current Republican majority.
“It was during one of those nightly sessions that Jarrett devised the no-negotiating strategy that Obama has employed in his fight with the GOP over the government shutdown,” Klein said, citing sources within the administration.

“She convinced the president that a government shutdown and default offered a great opportunity to demonize the Republicans and help the Democrats win back a majority in the House of Representatives in 2014 .
. . Valerie also came with the idea of using the words `hostage’, and `ransom,’ and `terrorists’ against the Republicans,’” Klein said.

Jarrett is the one who advised Obama “do not cooperate one iota on ObamaCare. Don’t given an inch. Let the Republicans stew in their own juice,“ Klein said.
“The Republicans walked into a trap set up by Valerie Jarrett and President Obama, The Republicans are in an untenable position,” he added.

“The government shutdown is about protecting ObamaCare, yes. But it’s much larger than that. It’s about the 2014 House elections,” said Klein.

ELISI — October 16, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- Try sourcing the National Enquirer next time. Not quite sure, but I don't think Rupert Murdoch has purchased that publication as of yet.

A tidbit about the person who authored this trash.

[Klein has been criticized for his biography of Hillary Clinton, titled, The Truth About Hillary: What She Knew, When She Knew It, and How Far She'll Go to Become President, which was released on June 21, 2005. Politico criticized the book for "serious factual errors, truncated and distorted quotes and overall themes [that] don't gibe with any other serious accounts of Clinton's life."[3] The book was attacked not only by liberals, but by conservatives as well. John Podhoretz wrote in the New York Post, "Thirty pages into it, I wanted to take a shower. Sixty pages into it, I wanted to be decontaminated. And 200 pages into it, I wanted someone to drive stakes through my eyes so I wouldn't have to suffer through another word."[4] In National Review James Geraghty wrote, “Folks, there are plenty of arguments against Hillary Clinton, her policies, her views, her proposals, and her philosophies. This stuff ain’t it. Nobody on the right, left, or center ought to stoop to this level.”[5]]


We as a people can do so much better than this.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Heh. I have the same Wiki article open. I was about to copy and paste the same paragraph.

Drift — October 16, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- Great minds think alike. :)

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 8:54 a.m

Nail, when HC said... "That is the problem. The polarization of our country, it is destroying it. I have heard that many times as well as of lately."

I posted what I did asking if things like that is what is causing the polarization. You have to admit, that article is damning as are many others, even ones you post. I see trash being from both sides. People eat these sort of things up which IMO is causing 98% of the polarization in this country.

ELISI — October 16, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail and Drift,

I was once told by a school administrator that kids lie..(well duh) that kids will lie just enough to raise you backside up off the chair to run to their defense. That is how I see most media today, they lie just enough ( or spin as some say) to raise your backside up off the chair.

ELISI — October 16, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BREAKING NEWS---Cruz announcing he won't block current Senate deal.

ELISI- Much of this polarization is due to folks, who seemingly go to any lengths to justify their pre-conceived ideas and concepts of government and truth. Regardless of facts.

Some people refuse to hold the incompetents to competency, hence, it's why we have a bunch of idiots in Government governing. Instead of insisting on truth and transparency, they fall in line with any talking point which fits into a limited understanding of government, religion, and politics in general. And when media exposes such, it's the "lamestream media" argument.

These same showed up in 2010 with a mission to overturn this Presidency, because, well, he's just not one of us.

Turning the page to today, I hope the agendized misinformed are happy with the product they produced, because it's going to be short lived, and America will be the better for it.

[Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group, said the country is "ruled by a president who bows down to Allah," and "is not a president of 'we the people.'"

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come up with his hands out," he said.]

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9:28 a.m.

So many people came to some sort of political awareness because of 9/11. Not complacent exactly but not engaged either. So the learnings of government, governings, and politics was not organic or progressive (as in a evolutionary series). They registered or reregistered to vote in a bigger number not seen before, but they came angry, scared, horrified, with visuals of buring buildings and talk of muslims and terrorist groups. And a whole industry was born... commentary, slanted newspapers, PAC's, websites, blogs... all free to say whatever, and many saying whatever strictly for the fame, money, or power. Integrity was/is optional. With Chaney telling folks to FO in the floor of the Senate and outting spys in a snit fit, it gave folks the level of behavior as customary, or as increasingly flexible and broad. LOTS of niches to be filled and lots of dollars to be made...opprotunities abounded. So, I've had to select alotted readings by formulating a process of how to eliminate the chummers.

As a voter and a citizen, it's been hard to find publications that have 'fairness'. (Don't like the word balance much anymore because it's been defrauded by the same hounds snarling after readership or viewers.) Lot's of junk to read, and lots of good, researched stuff too. Just have to look. When I'm not sure I check out the Science section, or the Financial section, or something other than politics. Not a lot of ways to dramatize mutual funds. Maybe count front pg articles... are they all political? Is there any world news at all on the front page? How many times can I spot Obama's name? These are ways to help see what I are reading, if I'm seriously not after the slanted stuff, or wanting to feed the ongoing frenzy of the last few years. I have to look. Just clicking on a headline, even in a fav. publication does not mean that publication put it there. AP is everywhere and their responsibility toward fair journalism is moot. Their freelance, so I have to arbitrate with myself on item by item credibility. Thankfully a good google search can confirm or disprove. Hours do to so are very limited tho, and they know it. Rupert Murdoch is toxic and I avoid anything he touches. Was discusted when he bought the WSJ and miss it now. Switched to the Financial Times.

Anyone can string verbs nouns and adjectives well enough to cause thought and response... songwriters and fiction writers do it all the time. Why not journalists and publications. I know they have to make money, but I don't want to be 'fed' or persuaded or lead. Just the fact, ma'am... I want to be the one to determine what I think.

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- Much of this polarization is due to folks, who seemingly go to any lengths to justify their pre-conceived ideas and concepts of government and truth. Regardless of facts.
nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9:28 a.m

..and isn't that exactly what the media does too?

There has been way too many times each of us have caught media lying to gain whatever they are looking, name for themselves..

ELISI — October 16, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yellow journalism has been with us since before the Gutenberg press. As jacjac appears to insinuate, it's "buyer beware."

Reading it in the paper (or online) doesn't mean it's worth believing. Considering? Maybe,
but not believing. It's up to us, the reader, to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Drift — October 16, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 16, 2013 at 11:48 a.m.

Ahh...but what if the wheat has already been ground to a pulp, along with the chaff...

How do you tell the difference??? It all looks the same. (metaphorically speaking of course)

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 11:07 a.m.

The media is indeed a two-headed-monster. Your thoughts are spot on about 9/11 and the dynamics that accompanied it in my opinion. We as a people fed right into it, and had a President, VP and admin who used the 9/11 attack, not to the betterment of our country in ways of responsible retaliatory action, but to push a neo-conservative agenda, as well as using this horror for personal gain. I hope we've learned something from it, but at times I wonder. I have some harsh criticisms of our current President and aspects of his foreign policy which I've shared in this forum before.

I do try and search for truth and reasoned opinion in sourcing publications. Although I have liberal and progressive viewpoints, and tend to source pubs with the same, (hard to find conservative pubs espousing liberal/progressive thought:) I respect the mindset and value that calls out the misgivings of such ideology (and how they translate into policy) and like to think I embrace them.

Seemingly, at least from what I can tell, the right side of our political spectrum seems to eschew this train of thought when it comes to their own reasoning and decision making.

A good takeaway from this latest government debacle is, I think, it woke up many who normally don't pay attention to this sort of thing.

At least I hope so.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If I can digress for a post. I was just going to post this RS interview without much commentary. Then the rabbit jumped out of the hat and started on it's way down the hole..

Cream was one of the greatest bands on the planet. Hands down. Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce, and the beloved Ginger Baker were undisputedly some of the best musicians on the planet. (still are) Each one elite to the extreme in their craft.

What makes Cream unique in my mind, is the dynamics involved to get these superstars in one room, and deliver some of the best tunes the world has ever known. Ego's, excessive recreation, creativity conflicts, ultimately caused the demise of Cream genius. Although an early parting was in the cards, as it is with most superstar groups-even ones with so-called 'weak links', (think Ringo) one could argue it's the genius and what accompanies it that makes sustainability impossible.

With this in mind, I console myself with the death of Jimi Hendrix. In just a few short years he changed musical concepts, sound, the guitar as an instrument, altered genre, forever & ever.

Thoughts like 'what if he were alive today', 'what direction would he be taking', 'what amazing unprecedented sounds would he be extracting from a piece of wood with strings, pick-ups, and means to electrify', take a back seat. The thought of his early death (as his searing spiritually driven leads) brings tears to my eyes to this day.

What helps me to process his (untimely?) death is understanding, that without the frailties of the the human body and life's experiences, Hendrix would still be with us.

But then if that were to be, Jimi would never have been, Jimi.

Anyway, with this train of thought in mind, a brief interview with the iconic Ginger Baker, complete with his brash persona, eccentricity, brutish judgements and disdain for most things human. I love this guy.

///Q&A;: Ginger Baker on Why 'the Rolling Stones Are Not Good Musicians'///

-'I won’t go within 10 miles of a Stones gig,' says former Cream drummer-

Read more:
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.

I just noticed the same thing you mentioned this morning - ODOT appears to have removed a document that Andrea had linked to.

Did you read the article on Inslee's plan for a special session in November to deal with the Transportation budget? He says he won't bring the CRC up because he wants to move on - Oregon can have the CRC on their own. However, toward the end of the article Rodney Toms is quoted as saying this doesn't mean the CRC won't be an issue. He's holding out to not cede tolling authority to Oregon and for no light rail on the final project. And the odds are his coalition majority will increase by then. Up in the 26th, the Repub Jan Angel is expected to beat the incumbant Dem Nathan Schlicher in the special election next month. Looks like we're going to get to see a real show when/if this session happens.

So, if this turns into where a deal has to be brokered - no CRC support or no budget - does Jim Moeller back off and agree to go back to Oregon to say the CRC will have to be renegotiated to include no light rail? Or do they sit back and wait for 2014, hoping Benton and Toms lose their seats? Hmmm....

roger — October 16, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Good questions that I asked myself, too. Who knows? The 49th LD reps, Moeller, Wylie and Cleveland, have said that they will not approve ANY transportation budget that ignores Clark County's needs (outside the CRC). I heard them promise that in person at their town hall. They want to prevent Seattle, Olympia and Tacoma from hogging all the benefits.

More fights and struggles ahead and not much collaboration among parties. That's about all I can predict with any accuracy. :)

I still don't understand how WA can expect to have a say in a bridge they refuse to help fund, but there are those who, like Rodney Tom, will forge ahead with that stance. I still will be surprised if it all comes together.

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Cream is among the best. I still consider their Live Vol 2 album one of the best ever released. I might also say that it's because of them that I like metal.

Ginger Baker may be a great drummer, but his forte is as a jazz musician. Their focus is a bit different than people who grew out of a blues rock background (the Stones) or a pop background (The Who). One might ask what old Ginger has done worth knowing about beside Cream. I've had his Ginger Baker's Air Force double album stashed in a box for over 30 years - about every 5 years or so I'll pull it out and put it on the turntable to see what I think - and the answer is that it still sucks.

roger — October 16, 2013 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- A collaboration can suck, but an individual part can remain genius.

Man, I wish I still had my albums from the past. When I was twenty, I lived with two ladies, one I went on to marry. The one I didn't marry, one day left our apt. with the bathtub running and overflowing with no one to tend it. I walked in the door many hours later, and the wet, rising, squishing floor beneath me told me something was wrong. {:(

I had around 500 albums stacked, most slanted, categorized of course on the floor (started collecting when I was nine, yes I had a Dave Clark 5/Herman's Hermits album or two:) soaked to the bone. And in a fit of righteous rage, when management maintenance was gone and I had the proper audience, deposited most of them in the dumpster out back with great force. With second thoughts the next day of salvaging what I could, I came to realize what 110+ degree heat does to vinyl.

From that day on, "Hot Water Helen" and I never saw each other in the same way again.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just received an unsolicited letter from a Vancouver attorney with maps of the CRC light rail alignment. He wants to help us "maximize compensation received for condemned property."

Remember my little corner that the CRC needs for light rail on E 17th?

He won't make much on our little deal, but I suspect he will try to with others.

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 2:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stephanie Rice ‏@col_cityhall 9m
Good news! Mayoral candidate Bill Turlay told me his ex-biz partner, who he blamed bankruptcy on, was dead. He's alive! Lives in Florida.

Just saw this on Twitter. Integrity.

langenthal — October 16, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just off the CNN Website

Interesting read... Bullet Points
Which party is more extreme?

A Republican Party divided between 180 mainstream House members and 40 Ted Cruz mini-me's? Or a Democratic Party united to preserve our fossilized, ineffective public sector?

A Republican Party advocating a path to fresh, natural, economic growth? Or a Democratic Party offering young voters the outdated economics of conformity, artificially imposed by Washington's elites?

A Republican Party being driven to offer change? Or a Democratic Party united against it?

Entrepreneurs, start printing tie-died shirts now. They will be hot sellers at the next Democratic Convention. Both sides are in for an interesting ride, but for Democrats, it's going to be an extreme 2016.

vanwadreamer — October 16, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Congrats to the City of Vancouver, Washington for making it in the top 100 most liveable cities in the USA. Poor Portland with all their loo rail and weirdness...didn't even make it on the list.

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Although the mosaic "rug" was nice looking, sometimes someone has to ask why TriMet paid for something like this in the first place -

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's a WW article with the picture of the "Living Room Artwork."

This is art???

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.

Love Cream, can't hear Sunshine of your Love, or even just the lead-ins to a couple other of their songs without some old feelings. Like 10cc and also Godley & Creme too tho they came later. G&C;'s concept album 'Consequences' is one of my all time favorite off-the-beaten-path-and-head-on-down-to-weird-and-strangely-fun rock music. Best with the booze neat and on Mt. Adams during the Perseids, but good anytime you've got time for a triple LP length story. Sarah Vaughn was on that one.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.

How terrible!!! Me, I was just careless and always heading for the next big tech thing. 8 track, cassette, etc. Managed to hang onto some of the LP's tho until needles and turn tables were only hard to find. Thank goodness for Music Millennium through some of those years.

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 2:44 PM: I just saw her tweets about that. Hoo Boy. There is a phone call interview in that one. Cannot wait for the story.

Cannot manage money and lies. Sounds like perfect bonafides for a politician.

Wish Erik Hidle went into Board Time with a full smartphone battery. I rely on those realtime tweets of his so I don't have to show up.

I understand that Commissioner Madore has a group of blue haired groupies who show up to giggle and cheer him on.

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- As the politician you've become, would you address my last two posts in last weeks forum? I noticed the C did a story addressing initiatives and those who endorse them this week.

Kinda goes with my wondering if precedent has been set with voting on infrastructure projects. The more I think about this, the more I'm against many initiatives. After all, it's what elections are for. To me it smacks much of micro-managing local projects.

One problem voter initiatives present is low voter turnout in an off year. And the ones who do make it to the polls without fail, are generally old farts around our age, who by and large are conservative and will vote down revenue increases, regardless of needed improvements.

On the other thing about Ginger, maybe genius is a little overstated. After all, he's a drummer! But one of the best ever at his craft, and Cream wouldn't have been the same without him. Drummers are the bread and butter of any band but.....genius tends to manifest and evolve with other players, while the drummer, well, is the drummer. John Bonham's exceptional talent to bring the thunder and a few others come to mind as well. (-if any drummers read this, feel free to scream-)

As far as the Jazz deal. I get what you're saying and agree for the most part. Jazz & Blues do have a rich history, origination, crossing paths and blending. It can be said that Baker's jazz acumen speaks to his greatness. Improv jazz and variations leave most musically inclined folks in the dust, on any instrument.

Remember this guy? A superman with the sticks for sure.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On second thought.......

The Houston Chronicle retracts its endorsement of Ted Cruz.

manthou — October 16, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- I'm disappointed about Hidle not having a charged phone also.

I suppose the blue haired set will be out in force for the hearing on integrity,

I just saw my first TV commercial for Turlay, Stewart, Decker, and Doan. Meh.

langenthal — October 16, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.

OH WOW!!! Thanks for that! And, I thought Gil Moore was something...
I need to view YouTube more...

langenthal — October 16, 2013 at 2:44 p.m.

And Twitter too, looks like...

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Hotwater pretty much burned me out on buying LP's. I went mostly to the legendary 8 track and cassettes after that. Then several years later the almighty CD's. No scratch & pop, and no tapes being devoured by hungry machines, although sound nuance diminished a bit. I know it's sacrilege with some, but I'll still take well produced CD's over analog LP's all in all. I remember several years ago a new type of crystal based format was going to be the thing. Not sure what happened with that.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Paid CNN contributor Alex Castellanos was not available for comment for this CNN study! Maddow schooled him and he wasn't man enough to admit it.

And he's been around forever, not only as a paid shill for the health care industry,

but someone who does more than stretch the truth to get someone elected. This guy is a hack, CNN employee or not.

///Going negative///

He's the father of the modern attack ad, and he's behind the Bush campaign's new wave of anti-Kerry spots. Alex Castellanos is known as vicious, irresponsible -- and effective.

The Bush strategy is to unleash the heaviest round of negative TV ads ever in order to discredit Kerry before he can solidify his lead. Sitting on an unprecedented mountain of money, the Bush team is blanketing 17 swing states between now and the GOP convention in late August.

Two weeks ago the first warm, biographical ads touting Bush’s leadership were unveiled. But even those carried a surprisingly divisive edge, using images of 9/11 — even a recovered body, which some victims’ families and firefighters found tasteless and exploitative.

Now, as the Republicans enter attack mode, it’s prime time for Alex Castellanos — the charismatic, controversial and confrontational Republican media consultant. Castellanos is the party’s ultimate hit man, hired by the Bush-Cheney campaign to put his stamp on the contest.

“Republicans have sent every signal that this is going to be a vicious campaign against John Kerry,” says Democratic media consultant Rich Davis. “And Alex has a well-earned reputation for producing searing, negative ads.”

And there's much much more vanwa, I wouldn't put too much stock in this guy's ability to predict the future.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a used car from the guy.

As always vanwa, nothin' but love. Keep on livin' the dream. :)

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 16, 2013 at 3:55 p.m.

And in return thanks for the Gil Moore turn on. As a side note, I got turned on to Buddy Rich as a young'un growing up with Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. He used to be a frequent guest. I'd love it when he'd jam with Doc and the bunch. They just don't make good television like that anymore. For me, growing up and beyond, The Tonight Show Starring Carson was comfort food for the mind.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 7:21 p.m.

Yes the Unconstitutional abomination budget bill passed the House.

I did not support the Republicans using the normally Democrat tactic of shutting down Government. That being said the bill originated in the Senate, making it Unconstitutional, and I personally will not vote for any politician who voted for it. 15 times since the 1976 Democrat controlled Houses have shutdown Government by tying something to the budget, that is the nature of our Constitution, but now we just ignore the Constutition?

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry I got typing too fast should have been Constitution.

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Soooooo, we got a (mal)functioning federal gov again. Jamie covered her butt one day earlier, and the world is back to normal.
More or less.

And why did we do this? Why did we go this far down? Someone tell me again why we were held hostage by know who and what I mean.

I like to see a wholly new fresh congress next election. Time for all of them to go limp into the sunset.

luvithere — October 16, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK -

The State Constitution allows the referendum and the initiative process. When enumerating the powers of the Legislature, the first section states - "The legislative authority of the state of Washington shall be vested in the legislature.... but the people reserve to themselves the power to propose bills, laws, and to enact or reject the same at the polls, independent of the legislature, and also reserve power, at their own option, to approve or reject at the polls any act, item, section, or part of any bill, act, or law passed by the legislature."

What Eyman does is consistent with this. I disagree with the decision of the State Court judge who overturned the voter approved initiative requiring a 2/3 majority vote to raise taxes. That one that kept getting renewed every couple of years, clearly reflecting the majority desire of the voters. The judge threw it out, saying it impeded the Legislature's duty to govern (I forget the exact words) - Damned right it did. That was the intent. (I sort of recalled we went round and round over this when that decision came down.)

As for the advisory votes - Seeing as how they're not binding, I'm not really excited about them. For 1 and 2, I think a binding vote of the people should be required for both LRT and BRT - further, I want to see the regional transportation plan the SW WA RTC published in 2008 and recently reaffirmed be put to a vote. State law, in RCW 81, requires all of this. (The argument that we shouldn't vote on the LRT because it was a joint WSDOT/ODOT project was bogus; the RCW says the state has a support role for these projects, and never says any condition where the people of the transportation district wouldn't vote.) For 3, 4 and 5, - so what? I can understand an underlying thought that we already pay for transportation projects, but state law directs tolling to pay for bridge projects and one won't be built without them. (I noted this in an article when the topic came up, and said they need to take out the toll free part, but was pretty much ignored. I'll vote for the west side option, though, because it's the one I see as most important.)

As for number 6, out here in the unincorporated County, wanting to take our fireworks away is up there with trying to take our guns away. And I will never understand my neighbor who drops a couple grand on the stupid things every year. We reached an agreement a few years ago, though. He doesn't EVER play that little stunt of tossing an M80 in my back yard when I'm out there weeding again, and I don't flip out and bury my weeding fork in his throat. (I'm kind of liking that these kids who grew up watching Rambo movies think all us old Vets are crazy enough to do wild stuff like that.)

roger — October 16, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 16, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.

Do you feel the same way about the 15 times that Democrat controlled houses "shutdown" Government? This power was vested in the House for a reason, but when a Republican house does it we just ignore the Constitution?

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There were a lot of good bands that were away from the mainstream sounds. Manfred Mann's Earth Band was one of my favorites (sometimes). Listen to Focus - Moving Waves. Skip Hocus Pocus (their hit), and you'll hear stuff similar to but far superior to what Emerson Lake and Palmer put out. Bloodrock put out some good stuff, especially on their second album. The problem most of these had was shared by 10cc - They'd give you something that sounded really good, and then it was like "OK. done that, now let's do something new" and what came was just too different.

The problem with LPs was that no matter how good your turntable and needle were, they'd end up developing those pops and scratches over time. And you'd always have your drunk or stoned buddy piss you off by putting the tone arm down manually and letting you here that nice long drag when he missed -- CDs are really much better when it comes to those problems.

roger — October 16, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One less Senate seat to be concerned about. As expected, we have a new U.S. Senator from New Jersey. Congrats to Cory Booker.


frobert — October 16, 2013 at 8:07 p.m.

If it wasn't for a bunch of misinformed idiots, electing a bunch of misinformed idiots, (in 2010) then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This Forbes article kinda sums up what many people believe. To compare this fight to others doesn't hold a lot of weight. Not to mention this threat was about reversing constitutionally upheld law, a law which hasn't had the time to be fully enacted. And threatened by a group that actually would have allowed us to default. Other than 2011, this has never really been the case before.

Personally, I think we should abolish the debt ceiling altogether. I normally don't compare personal finances to government operations because they differ so much in reality. But this one...

I don't have a debt ceiling to threaten my creditors with. I can't demand Chase Bank lower my interest rate or I'll default. Well, I guess I could, but I'd cave or lose my home!

///Debt Limit Fights Are All The Same -- Except For This One///

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 9:55 p.m.

Debt default has never been a concern. The debt ceiling is about borrowing money NOT about paying debt, you are regurgitating political rhetoric.

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 10:11 p.m.

Actually it's about both. One follows the other.


"I like to see a wholly new fresh congress next election. Time for all of them to go limp into the sunset."
luvithere — October 16, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.

At least the ones who voted against this measure. Come next Presidential election, this talking point will be at the forefront, let alone the Congress bids up next year.

It was hard for many Democrats to vote for this, as it keeps sequestration in place till, I believe next February. Pelosi is a leader. Boehner is a failure. ;)

I think this will diminish talking points for republicans on not only this, but many other things as well. People who don't give a whole lot of thought to politics gave this latest debacle some. They'll go back to life with politics on the back burner. But issues they hear being talked about here and there, and come election time, many will choose not to color in that slot next to the R solely based on this. Been saying this for about three years now, and feeling some beginnings on the validation forefront. Republicans are done as a major powerhouse party. They'll splinter off into two or three factions within the next two to seven years.

Dem majority rule for twenty years. A can of worms in the making, but I'll take it over the @#$% we have now.

Miley Cruz in 2036! :)))))

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 10:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 16, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.

I appreciate your well thought response, although at times I don't agree with your positions, I respect the time and energy you put into making one. You'll make a great Freeholder. You should (move if necessary:) run for City Council. This Decker guy sounds like an idiot.

On the advisory notes, to the tune of Don Benton's yearly Enviro paycheck, it's unfortunate we taxpayers have to pay for this slog. Extract the funds from the paychecks of those who sponsored them if not passed. And while I'm sounding cantankerous, and if it's within your purview, draft something that prohibits professional politicians from entering Freeholder races.

On the initiatives. I guess I'm looking more for your stance/thoughts than the what & who follows proper guidelines and procedures. Picking your brain kinda thing. What Eyeman does is compliant with law, yes. But is it good governance. At what point do we trust our elected for these types of decisions. Voting for this type of stuff in an off year seems unfair considering the lopsided electorate turnout.

Man. Like it's an electric train and a bridge. Most people agree that at some point in time we're going to need this. There will never be a perfect time, but the best time it seems to me, was when we could get the Fed funding for much of it.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 10:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 10:21 p.m

How does one follow the other? The treasury brings more than enough to cover debt. Obama's statement on "default" was concerning obligations on debt. The Administration has the responsibility to prioritize the debt, default on debt is not possible.

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry should have read "obligations not debt"

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 10:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 16, 2013 at 10:40 p.m.

"Obama's statement on "default" was concerning obligations on debt."

Exactly my point.

"..default on debt is not possible."

You're wrong. If we never borrowed again, how could we possibly pay future debt without killer cuts. Prioritizing payments would be a fiscal nightmare. You must realize this Fairbro. Again, you like to argue the inarguable, just for the sake of arguing. Arguably.

To echo John Boehner-slurring as usual in between "coffee" breaks-"This isn't some damn game!"

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of Miley...

Miley Cyrus may have dressed up as Rep. Michele Bachmann in her recent SNL skit, but don't expect the Minnesotta congresswoman to follow suit.

"I've never done twerking in my life, and I don't intend to take it up," Bachmann told during a conference call Monday. 

LOL. Props to Bachman for her sense of humor.

"The Monday after Saturday Night Live aired, we had a lot of calls to the office, and we had people think that was me," she revealed. "And let me tell you, as a 57-year-old woman, it's been a long time since I've been confused for a 20-year-old."

LOL. Props to Bachman for taking calls from the visually impaired.

nailingit — October 16, 2013 at 11:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and nailingit: The record store in Uptown Village is for sale for $30,000. It is the only place to buy and sell vinyl in this livable burgh. :)

Clark County Board time yesterday: I don't know where Erik Hidle's head was yesterday when he tweeted that nothing went on, but this meeting was teeming with rich Madore material. Maybe journalists should take some psychology classes for fun? Start with Abnormal Psychology and go from there. :)

First of all, Madore's favored attorney, fair haired child Chris Horne, was absent. Is the Prosecuting Attorney's office rotating counsel to prevent burnout and another Bronson-Potter-like resignation? Are they training Madore to get used to a variety of legal advice, so he stops his canonization of Horne? Are they distributing the pain of working with this guy equally among their staff members? Anyway, yesterday's attorney, a woman named Chris, had a great deal of legal issues with Madore's proposed C-Tran resolution, much to Madore's chagrin, and did not mince words in telling him so: it is vague; she is concerned about the legal consequences and findings of fact in using loaded words and accusations; it is not clear what role it refers to when mentioning the commissioners; she wants to make sure the public notice time is 15 days and not 10, to be safe.

During Commissioner comment, Steve Stuart called out Madore for posting an email exchange he had with Bill Barron as "proof" that the DES Director job description had been changed, when it had not. Stuart took exception to the label Madore slapped on it, as well, for being misleading. Madore took the feedback well and promised to send the other commissioners a notice whenever he posted something new to the website. "I'll be a good boy," he claimed. He called female support staffers "girls." Ugh.

This guy needs a full time hall pass monitor, which is what I hope many citizens are doing.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou: It looks like a disproportionate number of posters on the FB side who are questioning Madore's attempt to anoint himself as Clark County's Integrity Czar agree with you.
Even some of his most devoted followers are uncharacteristically silent.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: I noticed, as you did, that the number of persons who comment on Madore's FB page dwindle as each week goes by. The more desperate he becomes, the crazier he appears.

The best way to discredit a politician is to give them a wide berth to self-incriminate. The worse offenders are the ones, like Madore, with minimal or no self-insight and no ability to self-regulate.

The Tea Party and Ted Cruz have deep, self-inflicted wounds, for example, over this Federal shut down and are the poster boys and girls for this concept.

Madore is doing the same thing locally. Even toxic blogger Kelly Hinton is advising Madore to get a political advisor and shut up until he does.

"You don't have to hang a bell on a fool."

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Liquor Control Board will start accepting applications for 502 activity November 18th.
The earliest one will be able to apply for a business license for that activity in Vancouver is June, 30, 2014.

I find the 'hide under the bed' mentality of the Vancouver City Council childish. I find being governed by a board of pouting prepubescents embarrassing. I've grown grumpy in my middle age. "Go away, kid. Ya' bother me."

Drift — October 17, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Foot-dragging and ignorance.

This gem-of-a-graphic from Ezra Klein: What the Republicans got for this Federal hostage-taking tantrum: Nada

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Since I spent the long weekend among some moderate Republican friends (what can I say, it was Indiana! I am thankful no one went Tea Party on me), we had an opportunity to exchange ideas and find some common political ground. We agreed more than we disagreed.

Democrats should do what we can to join forces with moderate Republicans and push back assertively against the far right and far left. Both extremes are harmful to getting work done for the greater good.

I was one Democrat who voted for Boldt when so many of my Dem friends refused to cast a vote for him, based solely on his party affiliation. That mentality got us David Madore.

Just sayin'

Cast your vote when you get your ballots, Clark County.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou you are so right.There was a time not that long ago that both sides could sit down and hammer out a deal. Now it seems as the few that are extreme on both sides won't listen to anything the other side has to say. This has to stop if we are to get anything meaningful done. These extremist need to be voted out. They serve no useful purpose. I know I have voted both sides if I liked what they had to say and wanted to accomplish. Not every side is right all the time. Madore thinks everything he does is right and I believe he will learn at our expense that he is wrong on a lot of his ideas and actions.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 8:48 a.m.
"over this Federal shut down and are the poster boys and girls for this concept."

Only because of half truths and outright lies spread by the Democrats and supported by the media. Since 1976 Democrat controlled Houses have shut down Government 15 times, Republican Houses 3 times. The only reason this is different is because Ford, Carter. Reagan and Clinton, had the good sense to negotiate.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frobert: It's a bit disingenuous to claim the Government has been shutdown fifteen times since 1976. There have been some partial and short term closures over the years, but nothing with the scope or scale of the recent debacle. It's like comparing a toilet overflow with the Johnstown flood.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

at least two of the previous "shutdowns" I referenced exceeded the most recent in scope. Both happened with the current level of "partial shutdown" and exceeded the most recent in time. Additionally many exceeded a week, so "in the ballpark" of the most recent. No my post was not "disingenuous" it was factual. The information is readily available and you should read it. I will not post a link because all of the sources I have found have been partisan, I will leave it up to you which you believe, but all seem to have similar if not identical information.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

Also, after reviewing the information, I missed one Republican "shutdown" bringing the total for Republicans up to 4.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frobert: Here's a non-partisan link that explains the difference.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.

Wikipedia is not a source, it can be useful based on what sources it uses, the one you linked uses only biased sources.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore is promising a big surprise. Could it be a lawsuit filed against C-Tran by his new best friends, The Freedom Foundation of Olympia (well-represented in our local meetings all of a sudden)? Is he supporting this group financially now?

This group just lost its Supreme Court appeal against Chris Gregoire's "executive confidential privilege" with regards to some government records in an 8-1 decision. It was years in the making and any lawsuit against C-Tran will be equally slow and plodding. The bridge will be built and rusty before it goes through the court system. Regardless, I wish them well. Might as well exercise their rights to our court system.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.

I would also like to point out that unlike the "usual" this time the Senate refused to allow funding for services that both consider important. The Senate was being "obstructionist" on this matter unlike previous times.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc: Wednesday CCC Board Time is only on audio. You can access it here:

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 17, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

Read the Constitution, there is nothing unpatriotic with what the House did. It has been done often by both parties, and is discussed in the Federalist papers.

As far as your comparison to the Roman Empire goes, you are getting close to the truth there. The Empire which started as a republic, fell into chaos when it became illegal to disagree or vote contrary to the Emperor. Currently we have several liberal publications urging prosecution for those members of Congress who refuse to vote the way the President wants them to. The House and Senate are under on legal or moral responsibility to only propose bills the President wants or to vote at the Presidents pleasure. What you are advocating is a Dictatorship, and I for one would rather have our current level of dysfunction then a supreme ruler.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A major story.

The only ones who could have averted this shutdown were the ones planning it.

///A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning///

WASHINGTON — Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama’s health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.

Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.


A defunding “tool kit” created in early September included talking points for the question, “What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?” The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: “We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.”

The current budget brinkmanship is just the latest development in a well-financed, broad-based assault on the health law, Mr. Obama’s signature legislative initiative. Groups like Tea Party Patriots, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks are all immersed in the fight, as is Club for Growth, a business-backed nonprofit organization. Some, like Generation Opportunity and Young Americans for Liberty, both aimed at young adults, are upstarts. Heritage Action is new, too, founded in 2010 to advance the policy prescriptions of its sister group, the Heritage Foundation.

The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort. A group linked to the Kochs, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, disbursed more than $200 million last year to nonprofit organizations involved in the fight. Included was $5 million to Generation Opportunity, which created a buzz last month with an Internet advertisement showing a menacing Uncle Sam figure popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- They seemed rather proud of themselves at the C-Tran mtg.

More S Pidgeon or will Ralph Reed's Faith and Freedom Coalition free up some funds from all those evangelicals? This is an opportunity for Madore to get to the national stage if one of the astro turf Tea Party groups get involved. Do you suppose ALEC is ready to churn out some proposed legislation? There's always cease and desist something or other.

JohnK: I noticed, as you did, that the number of persons who comment on Madore's FB page dwindle as each week goes by. The more desperate he becomes, the crazier he appears. manthou

I noticed this also. I'm sure some of them know him personally so maybe the manic phase is disturbing even to his followers. What follows manic phase?

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: What follows manic phase? Nothing good, that's for sure. :) There is usually all sorts of personal and professional fallout.

This new article in The O hits a point home well: Washington has one of the most regressive tax systems in the country, if not THE worse (just google it). The poorest are hit the hardest (and these folks are the group most used and manipulated by politicians).

Who will flee from tolls? Those with the least resources:

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 12:07 p.m.

Did you read the Koch brothers statement on the "shutdown" or do you prefer to listen to those that just make stuff up?

"Dear Senator,
A great deal of what you read and hear about Koch Industries is erroneous or misleading. Indeed, there was false information presented about Koch on the Senate floor by Senate Majority Leader Reid, who claimed yesterday that Koch was behind the shutdown of the federal government in an effort to defund the Affordable Care Act or “Obamacare.” Because several of you have asked what our position is on this issue, we want to set the record straight and correct this misinformation.
Koch believes that Obamacare will increase deficits, lead to an overall lowering of standards of health care in America, and raise taxes. However, Koch has not taken a position on the legislative tactic of tying the continuing resolution to defunding Obamacare nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare.
Instead, Koch has focused on educating the public about reducing our nation’s debt and controlling runaway government spending. We believe that Congress should, at a minimum, keep to sequester-level spending guidelines, and develop a plan for more significant and widespread spending reductions in the future. We also believe that Congress should work to rein-in rampant government spending so that it becomes no longer necessary to continually raise the debt ceiling.
Congress should focus on these efforts: balancing the budget, tightening and cutting government spending, curbing cronyism, and eliminating market-distorting subsidies and mandates.
We are hopeful this sets the record straight and that in the future Senator Reid and other politicians will stop misrepresenting and distorting Koch’s positions.
Philip Ellender
President, Government & Public Affairs
Koch Companies Public Sector, LLC"

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. The majority of the 30 odd sources/links used to compile the Wiki article which you dismissed as too partisan, include, in addition to the Congressional Research Office, some of the most highly respected newspapers and political-financial journalists in the Country. You may disagree, but it's highly unlikely the CRO, the New York Times, and Wall Street Journal all got the facts wrong.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I will not post a link because all of the sources I have found have been partisan, I will leave it up to you which you believe, but all seem to have similar if not identical information."

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.

Yet the one item you source to defend the Koch brothers actions, is a write from Koch President, Government & Public Affairs Philip Ellender.

Theatre of the Absurd comes to mind.

As well as effort in futility.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 1:15 p.m.

They would be the foremost experts on their own opinion. You often quote the President and other Democrats to highlight their opinions.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 1:10 p.m

The writers of Wikipedia articles pick and choose what they use, their sources are seldome in agreement. This is why it is not considered a source. I often find the listed sources to be a good source of information, but a random person tying the information together can't help but put their personal spin on the article.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

wiki is NOT a reliable source. ask any collage student, ask any professor they will tell you not to use wiki for info. professors will tell student that they can use wiki as a source to start looking for correct info, but they are not allowed to use wiki to source solely.

jasonb — October 17, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

since pelosi refuses to talk about it..
I wonder just how much democratic pork was attached to reopen the government.

jasonb — October 17, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is an opportunity for Madore to get to the national stage if one of the astro turf Tea Party groups get involved.

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 12:18 p.m.

The prospect of this used to concern me. But as time goes on, Mr. Madore's political/governing acumen seems to be nil. I'm wondering if outside money would want to invest heavily in someone that, to this day, can't seem to process basic procedure and decorum when governing.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seriously though, they got the budget deal done and and a few states were given Billions for infrastructure, where was JHB asking for money for the CRC.. Ohio got 3bill, Kentucky got a couple billion as did tenn, where is our money??

vanwadreamer — October 17, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jasonb — October 17, 2013 at 1:33 p.m: You're absolutely right, but if you're talking about college level research, using WIKI as a source may cost you a few grade points, but using an anonymous and too partisan to name source might get you thrown out of class. (Liberty Baptist excepted)

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 17, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.

It was a Senate bill, it would have been up to Murray and Cantwell to get pork barrel spending for us. The House voted straight up or down, JHB did not have the opportunity to get funding for anything.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was trying to be Funny... But hey the "government" could have footed the cashola..oh that be the taxpayers..of the other 49 states.. At least it would have been cost sharing..rub

vanwadreamer — October 17, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not much has changed Harry, not much at all.

“Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it.”

~ Harry S. Truman ~

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.

Quoting a Klansman on the evils of Republicans, now that is funny.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wonder if this was this big event Madore has been promising his followers? Probably not. Just surprised it took so long.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 12:46 p.m
Really Frobo? You believe that crap coming from a PR guy? I can almost see the hand of one of the brothers up his back making the mouth move and the eyes blink. Noooooo, we didn't have anything to do with the shutdown, we didn't do anything to make the government stop. Of course, that wasn't counting the money going to the Tea Party people to keep everything at a standstill. Little notes in big envelopes of money delivered to offices in the middle of the night by courier.

Let me ask you this, do you believe EVERYTHING the White House press secretary tells you?

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 3:32 p.m


Now the fun begins, grab your popcorn.

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.

The spokesman for the Koch brothers is qualified to tell us their opinion, the same as the White House press secretary is qualified to give us the Presidents opinion. The Koch brothers have made no statements nor lobbied for a "shutdown". The Koch brothers are quite vocal as to their opinions, if they supported a "shutdown" they would say so, they are not up for reelection.

Please supply a link for your claim of "Little notes in big envelopes of money delivered to offices in the middle of the night by courier"

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK, hawkeye, other assorted BOCC observers: So, how much excrement will be hitting the fans in the BOCC offices for the remainder of the year? We need a wagering pool, not to mention a fair amount of cleaning supplies.

pfaffmachine — October 17, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Please supply a link for your claim of "Little notes in big envelopes of money delivered to offices in the middle of the night by courier"

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.

And I thought you were smarter than that. Why do you think they deliver them in the dark of night? Duuuuuuuh

Come on Fro, you can't really be that naive.

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk do you suppose Madore is saying oop's about now. He may have just sunk his boat.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL- You've got a million of em'. :) Now go on about westboro Phelps being a Democrat-climate change is a farce-your limited understanding/biased take on our constitution-you know-all those goodies you've trolled us with over the years to make nonsensical points which mean nothing.

Your comment at 1:20 was priceless.

An effort in futility indeed.

What happened? Did you get tired of wearing out your face book audience brother fairweather?

Feel free to move on, from me anyway. You have a way of dragging conversation down to the gutter.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — October 17, 2013 at 3:45 p.m.

I can see it now. Meilke is immediately on the phone to Madore screaming at him that it's ALL his fault, he was just doing what Dave told him to do.

Question, if they are discussing this on the phone, in person or by text (and I really don't know if they are but I suspect they are) does it count as County business and isn't it a violation of the rules about having secret meetings?

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On a more relevant note: If anyone has a problem with the captcha box displaying, try logging out and back in, it worked for me.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4 p.m.

Why do "enlightened" liberals hold so much hate in their hearts?

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No Nail I just use the numbers. I can see them better.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 4:12 p.m.

tim-My whole box disappeared. I couldn't input anything, as there wasn't anything to use.


Living in a bubble is one thing. But this convicted felon should be in jail. Too bad they turned him loose.

The months to come will bring in house republican party fighting such as we've never seen before. "Get off my lawn!" :))

Tom DeLay: 'Real' Americans Think Ted Cruz 'Is A Hero'

The Republican Party's approval ratings hit a record low this week, and Sen. Ted Cruz's hometown newspaper slapped down the Texas Republican. But former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) insisted on Thursday that most people in the "real world" consider Cruz and the House Republicans to be heroes.

"When you're in a fight, people just don't like the fight, so they're going to respond negatively," DeLay said on CNN. "It's who wins and comes out of the fight that has long-lasting effects. And I got to tell you right now, out here in the real world, outside of New York and Washington, D.C., these people think Ted Cruz is a hero. They think that those Republicans in the House are heroes. And they think that Obama is destroying this country."

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If half of the charges discussed in the BOCC lawsuit article are proven or discoverable, we'll be electing two new commissioners sometime next year. What may be embarrassing and destroying to Madore's credibility could easily turn out to have more serious consequences for Mielke, who is going to have a tough time convincing a jury that getting rid of Gray was anything other than a retaliatory action. Be funny if his best defense was to claim firing Gray wasn't retaliatory, but necessary to keep his part of the deal with Madore to reward Benton.

In any event, if I was Mielke, I'd be looking for a bus with comfortable undersides. Madore's probably got half the Clark Co. Bar on retainer looking for someone to blame while retaining his martyrdom.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4:17 p.m.

"convicted felon"? I thought the appellate court overturned those convictions, that would make him NOT a convicted felon. I could post a list of recent politicians convicted of felonies, but I don't think you would like all of the (D)'s on it.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK what I find odd in all this is the fact that Madore didn't run any of this by his own attorneys before he took the action he did. He must have known that hiring Benton was going to cause a big backlash. I didn't think he was that dumb. I guess power does corrupt.This is going to get interesting. And Roger you might have a commish opening to run for maybe 2 of them. Or Nail could run for one. And then appoint HC to replace Benton. Sounds good to me.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 4:12 p.m.-and any other for that matter-

I suppose now you're going back to your old method of trolling me each & every time I post, as was your M.O. for a several week stint in times past. I had to chuckle the other day when I read your post on the face Book side, you, of all folks, chastising someone for incivility of all things.

You've never had a thoughtful debate with anyone in this forum, just insult and RW extremist radio produced talking points all the years you've posted here. I certainly don't expect you to start being reasonable now.

I didn't intend to be your shiny object, and as I said before, feel free to disregard my posts.

No need to victimize yourself as no hate implied whatsoever-I just get bored with your nonsense.


For those that remember and those that don't. Leave it to Texas justice to overturn this convicted felon's sentence. Corruption begats corruption begats corruption begats...Only in Texas...

///Tom DeLay, former U.S. House leader, sentenced to 3 years in prison///

AUSTIN - Former House majority leader Tom DeLay, the brash Texan who helped build and tightly control a Republican majority in his chamber until resigning in 2005, was sentenced by a state judge on Monday to three years in prison for illegally plotting to funnel corporate contributions to Texas legislative candidates.

State Senior Judge Pat Priest, citing the need for those who write the laws to "be bound by them," rejected DeLay's impassioned argument that he was the victim of political persecution and was improperly accused of breaking the law for doing what "everybody was doing."

Priest said he agreed with a jury's verdict in November that DeLay had committed a felony by conspiring to launder corporate money into the state election, and ordered bailiffs to take DeLay - wearing a navy blue suit and his trademark American-flag lapel pin - to jail immediately. But he was released when DeLay's attorneys quickly posted a $10,000 bond.

Priest also sentenced DeLay to five years in prison on a separate felony conviction of money laundering, but agreed to let him serve 10 years of community service instead of jail time for that charge. Priest acknowledged that DeLay - who said he had already raised and spent $10 million on his defense - would appeal the verdict to higher courts.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick at 4:54 -- I like how you think.

pfaffmachine — October 17, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.

HOTDOG! Free dry cleaning and meals!

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 4:56 p.m.

When you post garbage with no foundation in reality, I will call you out on it. Delay is not a Convicted felon, But Jesse Jackson Jr. and Rod Blagojevich are. If you don't want me to point out your lies, I would suggest not lying.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal, pfaffmachine, JohnK, and timerick: I KNEW it would take a harmed Clark County employee to get the legal ball rolling on this lawsuit. Good for Anita Largent. She has a fantastic attorney, the gentleman who won the 1.65 million dollar Navin Sharma suit against the VanPD.

I also knew that Madore would cost us a boatload in defense fees, compared to what he has promised to save the tax payers.

This explains his silly FB post, explaining how Benton was "accidentally" hired and trying to deflect blame.

I'd love to see the depositions. However, I doubt there will be a trial. This screams "settlement."

Karmic justice. Nothing like it.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou et al. Here are my thoughts about the future of Madore.

At some point in the next six months, he might very well resign. Here some possible reasons the poor, tired martyr will post on his FB page:

The bad folks have been hounding him, and to keep the peace as he always does as he is such a do- gooder, requires him to resign for the good of all. Please all, keep up the good fight in the name of Jesus. Amen!

The continued attention and hounding is negatively affecting the wife and so he must reluctantly resign. Keep up the good fight, etc. etc.

His company is in need of the big cheese and has suffered. Keep up bla bla

What else can we list?

luvithere — October 17, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou: And this probably the first of several. Can't imagine those who got stomped on when that equally unqualified Clifford character got hired aren't discussing similar actions.

JohnK — October 17, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Oh, I hope you are correct! Madore will do what he can to martyr himself before tendering any resignation. I see the cross and the thorn of crowns now.

Envision a BOCC without the M and M boyz. Nearly heaven......

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Only a few months ago. Meilke's going to need some of those positive state wide contacts.

///Benton selection fuels anger among public///

Most contacting county outraged state senator got job without hiring process


Despite the overwhelmingly negative feedback, Mielke and Madore didn't express any regret Thursday about their decision.

Stuart said Thursday the responses he's heard so far are "near uniform outrage."

"I've had calls, texts and emails from Seattle and across the state on this," Stuart said.

Madore said he, too, is hearing negative feedback but blames "false information" for the blow-back.

"It's a false premise that he's not qualified and that we are violating some statute," Madore said. "We have the freedom to define this, and we are doing all that we can to serve our citizens."

Mielke said he has received positive response over the move, but added that he hadn't been to the office Thursday as he was traveling to Spokane.

"We've had people contact us from across the state," Mielke said. "People praising it from the east side and west side. I've gotten some phone calls on my cellphone and a lot of people see it as a positive thing."

Benton issued a press release announcing he was accepting the job.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: In my excitement over a possible Madore/Mielke trouncing, I forgot about Mr. Clifford.

I complained about both hires to Francine Reis in writing. She finally replied, after I nudged her with another email, that she passed my complaint about Benton on to the Commissioners. As for Chris Clifford, she said that he went through the typical hiring process.

There must be a Clark County employee who applied for his job, too. Clifford is a high school teacher with clear ties to Benton and Pam Roach going back to at least 2007.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes, HC, I forgot that one. Good catch!

luvithere — October 17, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: These buffoons are so full of themselves that the rules just don't apply to them.

Look at how Mielke called the two men who won the 10.5 million dollar settlement against Clark County "criminals" just this week. He did this on TV and with a smirk.

Looks like Chris Horne needs to sit down with these clowns and school them on laws and risky behavior. It might be too late.

Time to write them both and demand their resignations.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- You called this exactly right down to the type of case it had to be and very competent attorney. Kudos.

Although I always agreed with you that this is the kind of suit that is needed, I never thought that it could happen. I didn't know there was a woman in the interim position who never got a chance to even apply. Thanks for your assessment of the attorney. He sounds like someone who will get their attention.

The Turlay story is up in APIL.

Please check this out because it will tie into the lawsuit story:

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou-At least Dave is apologizing on some fronts. :)

///Madore apologizes to community for hitting them with gigantic plank sticking out of his eye///

Motion control enthusiast and county commissioner Madore will soon introduce a resolution for his fellow commissioners to consider that requires all citizens who encounter Madore to give him an extra seven feet of clearance to allow room for the huge plank sticking out of his eye.

"This addresses the situation I find myself in as an elected official," Madore said, "and what's unfolded over the last several weeks and really the last months as I have bullied my way through on decisions that do incredible damage to our community while at the same time publicly chastising those other officials who are trying to build infrastructure and keep our community from completely collapsing in on itself."

Read more @

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, at last some humor when discussing government. At least at the local level.
Always said he will implode. I think we are there.

luvithere — October 17, 2013 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"In the post, Madore states that the hiring of Benton was accidental as he became flustered. He blames Democratic Commissioner Steve Stuart's angry departure from the meeting for leaving him "feeling somewhat disoriented." He also blames former County Administrator Bill Barron for appointing Benton, as Madore believes Barron was reacting with an "emotional response."

Hmmm... It's coming back - I've heard this before. My son, in the 2nd grade, got sent to the principal's office for yelling at his teacher. She told him to put his comic book away and quit reading it in class. This made him mad, because he wanted to read his comic. A few minutes later he had it back out and she confiscated it. That made him highly upset - it was his comic and she had no right to take it. Which he hollered at her.

Yes, I know I was wrong, but she shouldn't have made me do it.

roger — October 17, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 6:07 pm: OMG. I wondered if it was Ron Goodman who alerted Steve Stuart to Madore's manipulation of public records on the county website! He is so bright and observant.

Like I told Madore and Mielke in my public testimony in May: "All it takes is one alert citizen. Only one."

I was referring to Langley mayor/jailbird Larry Kwarsik. However, I hoped that they would see that it could happen to them.

Mielke later said: "We're not going to do anything illegal."

Yeah. Right.

The Columbian journalists must be doing the happy dance. They will have material for months.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian journalists must be doing the happy dance. They will have material for months.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 6:58 p.m.

Earlier, when this was posted, I could see Lou smile all the way out here in Battle Ground. If that tells you anything.

I just love the "it was an accident" line. Just like the guy that got caught on the neighbor's wife, "Well, I was naked and I slipped and fell on her". It was an accident. ---- Sure, an accident you got caught!

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder how Bronson Potter (and other Clark County escapees) are feeling tonight. Meanwhile, Madore continues to self-inflict wounds. From his FB page:

David Madore Jerry, you already have my apology for how I handled this. I encourage you to read it and also understand that this good man does not deserve to be blamed for my actions.

"My actions." I'm not an attorney, and I don't even play one on TV, but that seems a tad incriminating.

pfaffmachine — October 17, 2013 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 7:22 PM: The former CC employees are all raising a glass, toasting each other's good judgement and celebrating their new lives, free of this corruption. :)

Madore is still posting on FB? Have the CC attorneys advised him otherwise? Or are they hoping he will dig a deeper grave and make their jobs easier?

As for Benton, he should have done the right thing in the first place and refused the job. He surely must have known that this fallout would only escalate. They all think they got away with it, so it emboldens them.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 7:37 p.m. One of the myriad questions I have for Madore is indeed why didn't Benton do the right thing?

Interesting notion abou the CC attorneys hoping for more. Hmm. As for Madore, I think he might be experiencing amygdala hijacking (again), or else we're seeing some quality hubris.

pfaffmachine — October 17, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The only thing that bothers me about this Madore mess is that anybody he pats on the back is now dust. I have always liked Jeanne Stewart and now she is caught up in this because Madore supports her. I do believe the C will play that card well as they don't like Jeanne very well. She has been good for the city and the council. I feel she has always tried to keep people honest. I will hate to see her go. If she associated with Madore I did not see it or hear about it. And I have been casualy involved in this city for a lot of years. She is going to end up as collateral damage. And this will seal Leavetts re-election. It is going to be a very bumpy road for the next few years I think. Bad politics stink and sometimes the stink sticks on the wrong people.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

From the business license renewal section in The Columbian a few days ago:

Leavitt Signature Development, Tim Leavitt, owner, 10800 S.E. 17th Circle, Suite 48, land development consulting. Bizapedia shows an earlier address of 1310 Main Street, and an earlier filing date of 5 May 2006.

Looks like Mayor Tim is quite the entrepreneur - Runs a local PBS office, moonlights with his own company, and still finds time to be Mayor. Needless to say, once someone noticed that in the paper the issue of conflict of interest is being raised again.

What I find odd is you can google the company name, and find nothing except a couple of those say nothing business locators. A land development consultant should be advertising his services. He's been in business since 2006 and absolutely nothing?

I'm thinking this conflict of interest look will yield nothing much. Seems to me it was quite the fad a few years ago to "recreate" yourself as an LLC, buy a home as the LLC, and then rent it to your real self. All perfectly legal, and a way to write off your mortgage as a business expense. People will find all kinds of ways to beat old Uncle out of a few bucks.

roger — October 17, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The problem is that with as wrong a political cronyism is, it proves that the affected employee was not discriminated against. They hired Benton for political reasons, therefore it was not discrimination. If they did not hire the employee because of who she was it would be discrimination, but they did not hire her because of who Benton was. Cronyism should be a legal defense to discrimination.

I do not support cronyism and no politician should be appointed to a career position, they were wrong to do so, but it may be a legal defense.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Any comments on the latest All Politics Is Local [APIL]?

I've seen the commercial at least 5 times. I saw this last night on Jack Burkman's FB page:

I just posted this on my regular Facebook wall and am reposting here:

It is times like this when I really wonder if being in public office is worth it. I work really hard to be open and honest with the public - campaigning cleanly, focusing on the issues. I don't attack those running against me - never have and never will.

Vancouver Vitality has launched a video on cable TV that is attacking me and Mayor Leavitt. This PAC is not publicly disclosing who is behind it.

I can't say it any other way - what they are saying about me is a lie. It hurts to have someone do that to you and they are doing it anonymously, too. Based on what I've heard about how much money they spent at Comcast, I expect this to be in heavy rotation for the next three weeks.

Jeanne Stewart in Columbian: At the same time, she [Stewart] doesn't like being part of the slate of candidates featured in fliers and a television ad by Vancouver Vitality, a political committee which has spent approximately $35,000, according to the state Public Disclosure Commission.

I guess her image is being used in TV commercials without her consent. Integrity.

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 7:51 p.m.

I saw the ad today on the tube. One just assumes she's compliant with such.

Things are so toxic on the right at the moment. Corruption, waste and obstruction are at the forefront and most are sick of it. Those associated with conservative politics are going to take a beating, and rightfully so.


roger- I know you'll be careful as to who you'll align yourself with.

As the old saying goes-'you lay down with dogs, and you get fleas'.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has everyone seen this?

Honest to Christ there should be a litmus test to keep these nuts a million miles away from politics. Since she was "evaluated by a psychologist before her release", maybe they oughta do the same for all evangelical House members. After hearing one of Bachman's rants, I'M ready for a straight jacket! :)

Stenographer's Gone Wild! Can't wait for the SNL parody on this one.

///House Stenographer Speaks Out On Religious Rant: 'The Holy Spirit Has Been Waking Me Up'///

As the House of Representatives voted Wednesday night to reopen the federal government and lift the debt ceiling, stenographer Dianne Reidy caused a stir by shouting about God and Freemasons as she was forcibly removed from the floor.

“The House is divided," she yelled. “This is not one nation under God — it never was!”

On Thursday, Reidy reached out to Fox News producer Chad Pergram to explain her outburst.

Fox's Greta Van Susteren posted the email from Reidy on her Gretawire blog:

“For the past 2 and 1/2 weeks, the Holy Spirit has been waking me up in the middle of the night and preparing me (through my reluctance and doubt) to deliver a message in the House Chamber. That is what I did last night”

Earlier Thursday, Reidy's husband Dan spoke to the New York Post about the incident, telling the paper his wife had been losing sleep since the shutdown began on October 1.

“Two weeks, waking up in the middle of the night. She’s like, I can’t sleep, God’s got me in the work,” he said. "God was preparing her for this vote last night, because this was kind of the culmination of everything."

Dan Reidy, who described himself to the Post as a Pentecostal Christian, said his wife was taken to a hospital and was evaluated by a psychologist before her release.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I agree with you about laying down with the dogs. But what concerns me is if the dogs drag you to their kennel with out asking you then it is hard to separate yourself from them. Now whether Jeanne Stewart agreed to any of this I really don't know. But as I said I have watched her for years and I think she is going to be associated for the wrong reasons. And the damage has been done now. She will not stand a chance. She is running against a very well financed lady. who is well connected to the very rich and powerful in this town. Ever hear of the Angelos and those that are on the Identity Clark County board. These boys and girls play pretty rough. I don't think that Jeanne can be bought. I hope I am right. I hate politics especialy small town politics. Not all that lean to the right are part of the Tea Party mind set. But you are right they all are going to pay the price. And I would like to thank you because your comments are most always civil. That by its self earns respect.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 8 p.m.

Hey fro, get off that inverted rack and stop the blood rushing to your head. Using an illegal act to defend another illegal act is not really a good idea.

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The first negative campaign flier is out for Vancouver council and mayoral races. It was paid for by a new political action committee, Vancouver Vitality, which is backed by familiar names.

According to the state’s public disclosure commission, the committee filed its first papers on Sept. 13 and to date has reported receiving $32,570. Of that, $25,000 came from Kanati Falls Ranch, a timber-management company that gave the committee a $20,000 loan and a $5,000 donation. The Washougal company, which was a top donor to anti-Columbia River Crossing lobbying efforts, lists Nancy Engleman as the registered agent (you have to go to the Washington Secretary of State’s corporation search to find the names behind the donor businesses). Mark Engleman of the I-5 Project (the organization that hired a group of lobbyists to fight the CRC) and a precinct committee officer for the Clark County Republican Party, is listed as a member of the Kanati Falls company. Another $5,000 donation came from Hudson’s Bay Industries, a manufacturing company that lists Randal Wilson as president and Tracy Wilson as vice-president. Tracy Wilson is the husband of Lynda Wilson, chairwoman of the Clark County Republican Party. (DeWils Industries, which contributed to the I-5 Project, lists Tracy Wilson as president and Randal Wilson as vice-president.)

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I have a great deal of concern about the stenographer's mental health. I don't think the Press is making fun of her, thankfully.

timerick: I know Jeanne Stewart and had a very nice, long chat with her recently. I think her time is up. None of the unions endorsed her and that was a blow to her. She is smarter than people think and worked hard in office. She does not welcome Madore's endorsement and being thrown in together with Turlay, Doane, and Decker. She wants people to judge her on her own merits, but, it isn't going to happen.

The Columbian will be developing the Turlay business partner story beyond what was published on Twitter and APIL. They are interviewing him. I think Turlay's biggest liability is his wife, sad-to-say. She should NOT be his campaign manager: too close to be objective. Her presentations are usually turn-offs.

I do know that powerful, rich people support Leavitt and Topper. Anne Ogle will benefit from that, although she earned her stripes honestly, by rolling up her sleeves and working in the community for years. She is more conservative than people think and was very anti-light rail when it was coming up Main Street. She was mostly responsible for that re-alignment, all by herself. She knocked on business doors up and down Main and gathered support against that Main Street route. She will not be sad if light rail does not come with the new bridge.

I think those negative, lying campaign ads from Vancouver Vitality will hurt their candidates. It is a desperate act by people who know they are swimming upstream. After the Federal shutdown and near default, voters are sick of games like that.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for that tim. On the laying down thing. Unfortunately, (or not) in politics guilt by association is prevalent. Sometimes it doesn't matter how loose the associations are. Remember Prez Obama being accused of "palling around with terrorists" for his fly by night relationship with Ayers?

I don't know Jeanne Stewart's politics much (fairly new to this area) except for what I've witnessed in print and CVTV, and direction from prior elections. (just turned to it and the CCPC is happening-God help me) She seems soft spoken and resolute. What one would want and expect in a leader sans party affiliation, especially in these times with so much noise to filter through. If she's forward thinking and has a solid vision for Vancouver I could vote for her based on that, regardless of party, as I believe city council is a non-partisan slot. But when I see who the local tea party activists are supporting I'm running the other way.

It has to be tough running for office and garner enough winning support without wearing a flea-tick collar. It takes money and influence to win, and dogs of all breeds have both.

It's unfortunate if these commercials are not of her choosing. Now, if she makes a big thing of denouncing them, she'll lose support from current supporters, while drawing attention to the negatives of those who have supported her! Can't win for losing.

I'm confident roger will hold it together. Having said that, if he gets a large amount of cash thrown at him, I'm expecting him to spread the wealth. (being how's I'm a democrat n' all :)

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 9:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 9:02 p.m.

Cronyism is morally wrong but not illegal.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I don't know Anne Ogle. I know she has done some good things for Vancouver. I know about Jeanne Stewart and I have felt she was the only stable person on the council. I just hate to see her get caught up in this Madore mess. I don't think she wants to be associated with him at all. But as I said the damage has been done. I agree with you Turlays wife is not a good asset for him. She is a loose canon waiting to go off. To bad because I have met Turlay a few times and he is a nice man to talk with. But his run is over we will have Leavitt again. Its to bad we didn't have someone else to run against him. You should have gave it a shot. A woman would be good for the city and I know you care about what goes on here.

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 9:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert: Here is what is illegal: Violating Federal civil rights laws to give a crony a job.

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:18 p.m.

manthou- I don't see her behavior as any different from many others of the Political Pentecostal persuasion. I've witnessed Bachman and others make God fearing, lawmaking rants with much more length and intensity, and receive a paycheck for it.

If she is having mental health issues that's one thing, but if she was just acting out on her interpretation of hearing God's voice that's another.

Hey-wait a minute! What's the difference! :))

Sorry. Somebody had to say it. [while 'sheep'ishly shuffling off into the sunset]

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:41 p.m.

Manthou, good luck with that. I don't think his mind will allow rational thought.

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"You should have gave it a shot. A woman would be good for the city and I know you care about what goes on here."

timerick — October 17, 2013 at 9:40 p.m.

manthou-Ya gotta be in it to win it! Tell your old man you'll run for office if he doesn't let you pull up stakes.

Start packin'!

But seriously, and I think I've mentioned it before, you should consider a run at something.

Mayor manthou has a nice ring to it.

I, and I'm sure many others would pound the pavement for you.

nailingit — October 17, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 17, 2013 at 9:41 p.m.

Federal Civil rights laws are specific, if they didn't give her the job because of who she is it could violate them, if they didn't give it to her because of who they gave the job to, it is not a violation. Federal civil rights laws do not interfere with who gets hired, they just prohibit certain reasons for not hiring someone. The Federal Government is not allowed to decide who gets the job.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 17, 2013 at 9:54 p.m.

Yes, we all know that you resort to childish insults when you can't form a rational argument. What amazes me is that Allen and Sporty got banned for less, and they continue to allow you to violate the guidelines.

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger --- Have you seen Madore's FB tonight? Someone has included you as a recommendation for Freeholder.

Madore will be putting together a questionnaire for Freeholder candidates so he can make a list of recommendations.

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Per usual, President Obama is the adult in the room. A great speech in both word & tenor. One for the books.

Transcript: President Obama’s Oct. 17 remarks on the budget deal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 12:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick and nailingit: Thanks for the encouragement, but I have already dabbled in public servitude. I prefer to work my magic behind the scenes, advising and encouraging others. :)
Here's good news!!!!!: Ronan Farrow, son of Mia Farrow and Woody Allen (estranged from dad, however) is hosting his own MSNBC show! I look forward to it. Put it on your "to watch" list, nailingit. :)

If you have not learned about this extraordinary young man's brains and talents and public service at such a tender age, google him. He's the son every parent wants. Kudos to Mia Farrow. Genetics played a big part, but he was raised with good values, obviously.

He's handsome, too. :)

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 5:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I have said it before and I'll say it again. ALL politicians should be drug AND alcohol tested. I want to add to that. Given what has been said in print by politicians recently, they should all go through a mandatory 72 hour psych exam also. Everyday recently we have woken up to more stupid comments than you can shake a stick at.

When Meilke thinks it's bad form to not act like a lap dog I have to wonder what he thinks of women in general and Ms. Largent in particular. She responded like anybody should. She was recommended by him as interim leader. It just sounds like he wanted a demur person who wouldn't rock the boat. He just doesn't realize that when you screw up so bad you will get bit by that lap dog.

I wonder when these pols wake up every morning if they even think before inserting foot in mouth. It's my belief most do not. It's being proved almost everyday.

Manthou, I hadn't heard that phrase used in over 55years. My folks used to say that about some of the politicians in the 50's. Ya know like McCarthy and the whole witch hunt thing for subversives. But it's just as meaningful today as it was then. All you have to do is listen to some of the statements being said. Like I said, open mouth insert foot or feet.

JohnCasey — October 18, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.

Thanks, langenthal. I'd just finished reading it before switching to the forum. I'm wondering...with the local farmers selling their goods (like Bizi and Joe's) local big box stores selling local fruit and veggies, and more community gardens popping up everywhere...are people still buying into the co-op idea?

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding our corrupt local government leadership in both city and county as well as the premature gloating of the pending lawsuit by members of our community and beyond, (let alone the fact that our current mayor and his skullduggery has tarnished the position he holds), what an embarrassment. A TRUE embarrassment!!! I'm just shaking my head in disbelief of the whole lot. A repulsive way to put Vancouver on the map, wouldn't you say???

Special interests ALWAYS get in the way of good governance.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 17, 2013 at 10:40 p.m.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What did I say to YOU?

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 17, 2013 at 11:10 p.m.,

Thanks for pointing me there - I hadn't seen that recommendation before. I'll take it, though his basing his recommendations on wanting smaller government are mostly wrong. If that were true, he'd take John Burke over Liz Pike, for example. And I'm probably the worst choice - Since 1974 my entire employment history (other than about 8 months in '77) has been with the states of PA and AZ up to 1981, and then the US government to this day. And some of the things I believe in, like a true nationalized health care system (not this ACA crap) and a strong military, are in opposition to that small government concept. But I doubt I'll get the Madore "bump" - I've made a few disparaging remarks about one of his lieutenants (Tweetie) in the past. He may decide none of us are qualified - I wasn't aware of Dimitry's moving in the downtown circles when I opined he'd get that nod a few months ago.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So far, you want Nails, HC and me at County and Manthou running the city. A forum takeover? Sounds like a pretty dysfunctional bunch there at County - Who would be our adult supervision?

roger — October 18, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Lying with dogs. My problem (if I was running for an office as opposed to a working group) is that I refuse to align with any particular group. That means I do visit those dogs when they're the only place to learn more about a topic that catches my interest.

Now, if I were actually running for office I'd take the approach Mike Briggs has. He surveyed the landscape, saw where he wanted to be, and has talked the party line nonstop. Over the past couple of years he's come from nowhere to work himself quite nicely into the downtown Vancouver crowd. He was even invited to sign that letter from important locals calling for the CRC - pretty impressive for someone from Washougal who appears to have little tie to the old downtown.

But me - I suspect I'm more an irritant than anything else. I've got these strange ideas that our governments should give a damn about all the people, and not just their special interest backers.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — October 18, 2013 at 5:31 a.m

The Supreme Court has already ruled that drug testing politicians is a violation of the Fourth Amendment, see Chandler v Miller. Now a Psych evaluation would be an interesting way for a totalitarian government to insure that only like minded individuals get into office.

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The coffee hasn't kicked in yet because I had tea (that's my excuse this morning), but a few thoughts/observations:

1. I concur with the theory that our District 2 commissioner will walk down the martyrdom path. How far down that path he goes will be curious. I'm wondering how and what Mielke is thinking, considering Madore seems to want to control (shocking) the spin on this.

2. Channel 6 has picked up the Largent lawsuit story, with Ken Boddie snagging an interview with Madore (who continues to show a lack of critical thinking skills regarding this matter, IMO), and speaking with Don Benton by phone. I'm not sure I can link here, but google news searching "Don Benton" should do the trick. Madore says hiring Largent would have been like putting a person who changed sparkplugs in charge of the dealership. Oh my. Boddie also interviewed Ferguson.

3. I'm concurring with the thoughts about Jeanne Stewart. While her politics are slightly (cough) different than mine, she's the type of politician I like to have around for the many reasons some of you have mentioned.

4. Madore is just now going to send out a questionnaire to freeholder candidates? It isn't like he hasn't known about this since, what, April?

5. That APIL Turlay post reminds me of the laugh value of local politics. With the twitter inclusion, it's an early 21st-century classic.

6. Oh, one more thing. Madore stated that commissioner salaries are set by state law. Does anyone know if that's the case? It isn't what I'm finding in the RCW's.

pfaffmachine — October 18, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine: Did Mielke get the County in deeper trouble with his Oct 15 comments about the "couple of criminals" who won a 10.5 million dollar settlement against the County? Remember: the insurer refused to pay this fine and it falls on Clark County to dig it up.

Most settlements include a clause that prevents either side from making disparaging comments/opinions about each other. This was a clause in Kevin Gray's measly settlement. It will be a clause in Anita Largent's if she settles and does not go to trial.

Even citizen commenter Bruce Barnes warned Mielke that he should be careful what he calls these exonerated men. Madore chimed in, too.

When Jack Connolly and Tim Ford, the two powerful Seattle attorneys who negotiated this stunning settlement on behalf of their clients, sees this video, I predict Clark County will get more grief for Mielke's stubborn and stupid words.

Mielke's comments come at about 16:20 in the video, with Bruce Barnes and David Madore following up quickly with their caution:

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: There's no gloating about this tort claim that Anita Largent filed against Madore and Mielke. Many of us are angry because we saw it coming. Legal advice and counsel given was ignored. They turned a deaf ear to citizen concerns, as well. And we pay for their arrogance and stupidity when it could have been avoided.

This case will be settled because taking it to court will risk even higher costs. A jury could decide in Largent's favor in the multi-millions. The Commissioners violated process and law and Anita Largent can take them to the cleaners with the evidence. I am amazed that she is only asking for $300,000, which tells me this figure was reasonable and designed to be an offer the county cannot refuse.

This constant need for legal defense for our irresponsible commissioners or any politician comes out of your pocket and my pocket. Had they proceeded with caution and due diligence, following procedures, process and laws in place, they could have still hired their crony and Anita Largent would not likely have the case she does because she would have had an opportunity to apply (and be rejected).

You might think they acted responsibly. I don't and they know I don't.

The government wastes money is all sorts of ways, but these lawsuits can be avoided with responsible leadership.

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's KOIN interview: priceless.

When is the prosecuting attorney going to tell these fools to keep their mouths shut? He is making it worse. They all are.

Madore's defense: I did not know Anita wanted the job. (She never got the chance to tell you or apply for it.)

Mielke's mewling: I am surprised that Anita would do this. (As if she is in the wrong. Blame the victim, Tom?)

Worth a gander this newscast. Plain and Peanut will be muzzled soon. At least I hope.

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 5:17 a.m.

I'll give it a look. He's like a parallel universe pundit of a Fox News host. Fox tends to bring attractive, young, blonde women, who are by and large clueless, particularly outside the RW political bubble, while contractually insisting they wear skirts on the air.

This guy has great looks, blonde, bright, with a smart political acumen.

And dollars to doughnuts there's no contractual provision to wear a skirt!

Thought you might like this. It's a brief read and gets into a few nuts and bolts of current political dysfunction, and speaks somewhat to, what I've noticed, conservative disdain for our youth. Personally, I like what I see with this new generation. Smart, diverse, accepting of others, and mostly engaged/politically active.

(and hey, you might get the bug someday Mayor manthou:)

Tell you what. Till then I chisten thee forum Mayor.

(doesn't mean anything as I'm nobody, but what the hell)

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — October 18, 2013 at 5:31 a.m.

"I have said it before and I'll say it again. ALL politicians should be drug AND alcohol tested."

A guy after my own heart. I've advocated for more years than I care to remember for this. If employers insist on everyone from burger flippers, factory workers and athletes taking a piss test, (for recreational drugs) how much more as a people should we insist on our elected doing the same. What people do in their off time should be private, let alone the privacy concerns when demanding their bodily fluids be dumped in a cup, extracted from their body, or cut from their head.

Personally, I think drug testing for employment should be outlawed. (with few exceptions) If an employee shows signs of such that's a different story. But till then-do away with them.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

But me - I suspect I'm more an irritant than anything else. I've got these strange ideas that our governments should give a damn about all the people, and not just their special interest backers.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.

Well roger, you just lost all the wannabe Ayn Rand libertarian vote. Most conservatives are still in the mix though, as many don't understand what they believe. (as they open their Social Security checks and visit the doctor using Medicare bennies.)

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 9:29 a.m: Thanks for the link. Someone needs to tell Madore and Mielke that women are not only capable of holding executive level jobs, but also serve on juries.

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

Damn it HC, you always lure me to view that train wreck of a blog Waters pens.

I'm constantly taken back by those who place so much blame on our local paper. Some great moments of articulate thought today.

Only three commenters to the latest "write", (average amount to most "articles.")

"they suck"---"the democratian IS a disgrace to “journalism,” and the fish DOES rot… from the head, down"---"makes me want to puke"---"Ms. Rice lives with her conscience…IF she has any!"

-Great job people-

These guys aren't getting it that people are tired of this type of personal, meaningless slander. And they wonder why the political sphere seems out of balance-whilst they fall over themselves.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10 a.m

I have to partially agree with your post, off duty drug use is not the employer's business. The
Court has ruled that drug testing is legal, for safety reasons, by that reasoning, jobs that can drug test should be limited, but in practice they are not.

There is no compelling safety reason to drug test politicians or welfare recipients the Court ruled on politicians, and it should carry over to welfare recipients. I can't understand how someone can call themselves a "conservative" and believe that someone's blood or urine can be seized and used at the governments discretion.

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore didn’t know others might want a six figure job [especially a woman]

luvithere — October 17, 2013 at 5:45 p.m.
luvithere — October 17, 2013 at 6:18 p.m.

Tipping point? You are prescient. Ready to move your timeline? So much drama to come. He wanted transparency and he's providing it.

langenthal — October 18, 2013 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.

I don't like cronyism, but that is why they hired Benton, I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with sexual discrimination. The Republicans did pioneer and pass women's suffrage, have the first female presidential candidate vote in convention(Margaret Chase Smith) and the first woman Supreme Court Justice(Sandra Day O'Connor).

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert: You're probably right, but I doubt claiming to be an equal opportunity discriminator
is the best possible defense,

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thats not a bad idea, Piss test everyone running for office and random ones through there terms. And Piss test those on Unemployment and welfare too. One might want to stop if they take your Check or EBT card away. The government will soon know who is on drugs or have been taking them once they get a hold of your medical records anyway...Obamacare..
Why is it you have to prove you have health insurance yet you do have to prove your a US Citizen.. Right Wing Question

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.

I am no fan of Madore, or cronyism and the plaintiff may have a legitimate claim because the County did not follow their own procedures, but I doubt the civil rights claim will stand up. If the Federal Government can step in and stop cronyism, can I be sued for hiring my children if a more qualified applicant wants the job?

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 18, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.

Langenthal, I think it will take up to six months as Madore is a very slow learner and will fight to the bitter end. I doubt it will less time for him to finally recognize that he lost supporters.

It also will take a while to write out all the justifications and rationales he will spout. After all, nothing is or was or ever will be his fault as he is perfect.

luvithere — October 18, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Affordable health care for all!

///Robertson: If You Tithe You Won't Have Health Or Financial Problems///

Today on the 700 Club, Pat Robertson told an elderly viewer who has been tithing since childhood that she wouldn’t have health issues, and therefore medical expenses, if she was tithing properly. The viewer said that she and her husband are “retired and living on a small pension and Social Security income” and “barely have any money” because of her husband’s medical expenses.

She asked Robertson if it would be “wrong to use [tithe] money towards medical expenses instead?”

Seeing that Robertson insisted that even people about to fall into bankruptcy must continue to tithe, we were not surprised that Robertson told the viewer no. In fact, Robertson went as far as to say that as long as she tithes she will stay healthy and as a result not even encounter medical bills.

Citing Malachi, Robertson said: “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devour’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devour,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

- See more at:

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, I love this line from the interview,

"One of the things I posted on my Facebook," Madore said, "was an apology for this -- because it happened on my watch."

REALLY?? You were there when it "happened"?

Try this line Dave -- I wrote an apology on my Facebook page because I CAUSED THIS!

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Ted Cruz Failed To Disclose Ties To Caribbean Holding Company///

An old college friendship led to financial entanglement with a Jamaican private equity firm and a British Virgin Islands holding company. Neither was disclosed during his 2012 campaign.

Read more:

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.

As a Conservative, I say, it is none of the Governments business who is on drugs. Doing away with welfare is a reasonable goal, but it should be done without abandoning Conservative principles like "smaller less intrusive Government". Our Constitution gives the Federal Government no authority to outlaw or schedule drugs in the first place.

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.

According to Forbes, ol' Pat's net worth exceeds $$$ 30 Million bucks. You'd think, being the upstanding Christian and all, he'd offer to send a few bucks to them. Instead he want's a donation! Ya gotta love it!

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 8:24 a.m.

Thou speaketh with a forked tongue (when you try to put words in my mouth which are untrue)...and yes, some are gloating. One especially but I will not name names. The words speak for themselves. To be honest, I was highly suspicious on the Benton hiring...but it was done and he had 6 months to prove himself. The segment of this lawsuit for discriminatory hiring...

It'll be thrown out.

The violation of nearly every written county policy promising equal employment opportunity...

She'll get a settlement but most likely, the attorney's will get the majority of it, leaving her about the price of one year of salary if even that. She'll be lucky if she will be able to keep her day job. They'll find ways to kick her out. I've seen it before and will again.

Fairness in hiring complaint???

Doubt if she'll be able to prove that one.

If I remember correctly, it was stated that nobody else applied for the position. Could it be that she wasn't on her toes to submit hers in time? This might play a big role on whether or not she gets anything at all...even if she was "intending" to go for the permanent position. Now I'm saying this as a layperson, manthou...but honestly, if she'd gotten her application in before Benton was called upon, she'd have a better case. Now, it'll just be a hush-hush payout and as usual, the attorneys will get the last laugh.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.

male menopause

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC you talk about Bill Barron a lot. I guess I don't know what it is he did to harm the county. Also do you know anything about the lady that filed suit against Madore? In your view are all those involved in the administration of the county dirty? Can you give us some history. I know I would like to know.

timerick — October 18, 2013 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.

I'm doing just fine, holymuffintop...and I'm not alone. There's many people with the same thoughts as I share. Tim Leavitt has played the game with deceit. Some consider him a shill for ICC and a cheerleader for the CRC. He takes credit as being one of the mayors who have turned Vancouver into what it is today. You don't believe me...then check out LewWaters' blog article link below and read those little advertisements of our mayor. Have you noticed how dead Vancouver is??? You think he's GREAT for our city??? Show me the improvements he's made, Muffintop!

You accuse me of being a flip flopper yet you support one of the most visible flippers, muffintop. In one breath, Leavitt recuses himself because his business has dealings with one company in Vancouver but he won't recuse himself from voting on projects such as the Loo Rail Folly, even though his company has contracts with TriMet...and HE gets paid by the very people who voted him in...deceiving all who supported him. Since Turlay is the only person I see who is running against him (and I like what Turlay has to say. He's proven himself time and time again that he says what he means.).

Holymuffintop, Stephanie Rice banked on her writes about Bill Turlay and a business venture gone bad TWENTY YEARS AGO. It was explained why he had to file bankruptcy and it made clear sense to me. Since then, he's run a successful business and has remained on the city council seat...voted in by the people who believed in him. Ms. Rice has all but admitted her mistake regarding Mr. Turlay's assumption that his ex business partner was deceased.

You might see him as Madore's puppet but I don't. Guess we have different views, muffintop.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lastly, holymuffintop...I would much rather have a mayor in charge who has gone through the rigors of bankruptcy and restarting his life...going on to be a success. I would much rather have a mayor who works with integrity and who truly loves his city and only wants the best for it rather than one who has vested financial interests involved in all his decisions.

Mayor Leavitt hasn't proven himself yet. Instead...he muddied the waters for himself by deceiving the voters.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 18, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.'s a link to LewWater's version of Bill Barron and the hiring process for Benton. I'm wondering if Bill Barron needs to be held accountable for his actions as well.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

oops...that's Lew Waters' (Sorry, Lew).

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If I remember correctly, it was stated that nobody else applied for the position. Could it be that she wasn't on her toes to submit hers in time?

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:32 p.m.

Nope! You don't remember correctly. Take your Ginkgo.

The job was NEVER posted! Never opened for applications.

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Don't even try to explain this simple concept that most of the working world gets. It is like arguing with a rock.

When Clark County settles with Anita Largent rather than going to trial, we can gloat about our wisdom and prediction skills together. :)

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"He takes credit as being one of the mayors who have turned Vancouver into what it is today."

"Have you noticed how dead Vancouver is???"

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.


"Congrats to the City of Vancouver, Washington for making it in the top 100 most liveable cities in the USA."

goldenoldie — October 16, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.


nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe he's at Lew's house!

Where’s John Kuzmanich?
Process servers can’t find the Oregon Tea Party founder, who’s more than three years behind on mortgage payments.

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

With the new ACA now up and almost working. Those choosing to use the government plan are giving the government there past health infomation. They will know who was fired for failed drug tests and useage ... Wait until it gets hacked as well.. Whoever thinks the Government can'tn do something better and cheaper and manage it better

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye don't you find it interesting that John Kuzmanich used Fannie Mae for his mortgage. I thought they hated the government. Maybe they do but they sure know how to use it.

timerick — October 18, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.

Nails, go back and read the qualifications for the award. I give credit where credit is due...the PEOPLE of Vancouver, not Leavitt. He had little to nothing to do with the two hospitals and the Cascades and all they had to offer. Of course, he's patting himself on the back for it like usual. Here...I'll give you the list:

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.

Actually, it was posted on a national site. I remember posting the link, showing to all of you. Locally, it wasn't on the county's site. Either way, she was right there in the middle of things, knowing all along that it was coming. She could have marched right in on the meeting and said "Hold on a sec, guys. Here's my resume'." I guess it's easier to play the lawsuit game. Or so she thinks.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.

You are preaching to the choir when it comes to ACA, forcing people to buy insurance is the worst kind of corporate welfare. When I lived in Maine they did not require auto liability, but most people had it and it was affordable. The insurance companies put forth a great campaign, telling us we were paying for those without insurance, and if we instituted mandatory insurance our rates would drop. Once instituted our rates doubled the first year and again the second year. Insurance companies are no more trustworthy now than the were in the 1990's. I am not a proponent of a single payer system, but it would be more honest than mandatory health insurance. Our new system does little to help people who cannot afford insurance, it just seizes their tax returns. It will give tax credits to people who can afford insurance, which is good, but that does little other than penalize the poor.

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

Look in the mirror, holymoses. You didn't part the red seas. You think I care what your opinion is of me??? I hate to break it to ya...but I don't give a rat's rear end what you think. Your stories always have a new twist to them every time you tell your game over and over and over again. Inconsistencies, holymoses... inconsistencies.

Tim Leavitt was and is NOT the lesser of two evils. He played the deception game and he won. His businesses surround his political decisions and his political decisions surround his businesses. CROOKED AS A $3 BILL!!!!

I'll say it now...MADORE PLAYED HIS OWN GAME OF DECEPTION...possibly unwittingly, possibly not, maybe in the push for the east side bridge idea for better transit of his goods...maybe not. You chastise Madore but you support Leavitt???

Talk about a messed up head!!!

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
Wow, didn't know that a choir was only two people.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.

Seriously? You really think that would have worked? You are really reaching. That is just wrong. You are too much in love with Davy and Waters. THERE IS A RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS, AND THIS WASN'T IT!.

Tell me, is that how your Husband would have done it? Or would he have been a stand-up guy and posted for EVERYONE?

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.
I feel compelled to take a page out of Nail's playbook and post a definition.
"Preaching to the choir means you are trying to make believers out of people who already believe, or convince people who are already convinced."

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 4:28: You seem to be blaming the victim for the County's failure to follow their long standing policies and procedures in the Benton fiasco.
I don't know when she was told the deck had been stacked, but it's clear from the statements of both Madore and Mielke, her only opportunity to apply would have been sometime after Benton was hired. That or Madore was lying about the process.

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Preaching to the choir means you are trying to make believers out of people who already believe, or convince people who are already convinced."

frobert — October 18, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.

Yes! And that makes two of you. YOU AND VANWA.

That's what I meant. Did you not understand that? Normally a "Choir" is many people but in your case, it's only two. You and Vanwa. Got it? Or should I go over it again?

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.

Regarding Madore and, I am not in "Love" with Madore and Waters. The only one I'm in love with is the love of my life whom I've been married for 34 years. It might surprise you hawkeye...but I actually agree with you regarding the way Benton was hired. It might also surprise you that I never voted for Madore as I didn't trust the guy. Actions speak louder than words and quite frankly, his actions lately raise the question of his effectiveness at the County Commissioner seat.

When I bring up the comments about the lawsuit, I'm sharing basically what questions could arise at any hearing. She'll get a backroom payout...most likely the settlement will be with "no claim of guilt" and possibly an "official" tarnished record on behalf of Madore and Mielke.

Just remember who has to carry the burden of proof in a tort claim. Her attorneys have their work cut out for them. All it took was that little advertisement online that I found...that little job opening to say the job was posted. These guys knew what they were doing.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.

As I'd said to hawkeye...When I bring up the comments about the lawsuit, I'm sharing basically what questions could arise at any hearing. She'll get a backroom payout...most likely the settlement will be with "no claim of guilt" and possibly an "official" tarnished record on behalf of Madore and Mielke.

Just remember who has to carry the burden of proof in a tort claim. Her attorneys have their work cut out for them. All it took was that little advertisement online that I found...that little job opening to say the job was posted. These guys knew what they were doing.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 18, 2013 at 5:07 p.m.

Think what you may, holybalsak. I know where I stand on issues. I know who I support and who I do not. Just because I don't agree with a lot of what you say, doesn't mean it is wrong. I have the freedom to choose what blogs I care to post. Regarding your "blow up doll" comments, YOU are out of line. I suggest you refrain from such comments. For one thing, it discredits your credibility.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It is obvious this forum is leaning so far left, it makes the Tower of Pisa look absolutely perpendicular to the planet's surface. Noses get out of joint if I choose to write comments in a Conservative blog, even though I write in several other blogs as well. You might as well detach your noses altogether whenever I comment anything that goes against your limited scope of vision.

As I've said before and I'll say it again. I sometimes post comments, giving another perspective. Does it mean I agree with that other perspective? No it does not. ASSumptions makes an ASS out of those who ASSume.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jim Moeller · Top Commenter

I had a lobbyist from Seattle chide me today that our "...county government is keeping us all entertained." Sadly, the Clark County Commissioners have become the laughing stock of the state.


goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.

It's unfortunate political comedy/tragedy wasn't on the list.

Might have bumped us up in the top ten.

Seems to me you're trying to have it both ways. Part of a Mayor's job is to promote image and have a forward vision for the community they serve. We can cherry pick line items as to why our city made this list, but overall I think Leavitt deserves some credit, and shouldn't be vilified for promoting the positive PR

Seems like most or all of Leavitt's detractors cite his change of mind on tolling and nothing else. Fine. But with the myriad of job responsibilities he has, both on and off the clock, I have to give him props.

One unpopular decision shouldn't define a Mayor's tenure in my opinion.

He's a young, active, energetic guy who seems to get the job done, and he seems to have Vancouver's best interest in mind. (electric train or not)

It's for these reasons, and a few others, he will soon be known as...

..."two term Tim".

"I sometimes post comments, giving another perspective. Does it mean I agree with that other perspective? No it does not."

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.

Then please let it be known when doing so. It clarifies one's position. Otherwise, it pollutes the waters of honest discussion.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I hear the tower of pissed is actually moving back to the right albeit slowly . The left can't think any idea they didn't come up with is any good. The left can't admit how bad Obamacare is. How it doesn't decrease premiums on average of $2500
you can't keep your doctor in many cases. And at it's current sign up pace they will only have winged up 25% of what they need to keep prices where they are. If Timerick thought health care was difficult to manage three years ago it's twice as bad now. But our left leaning friends here in the Basement dont want to admit. 90 trillion program that at current tax rates will only pay for 60%. Dems will raise taxes to help pay. Maybe steal more from SS .. They wouldn't dare take any money from Welfare or other Entitlement programs. That would hurt their Base...

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.

Okay nails...since you had the common decency to discuss it in a civil matter with me...for you, I will do my best to mention something like "another perspective, not necessarily mine" or something along that manner. Does that work for you???

Regarding Mayor Leavitt...please give me a list of his accomplishments which has been for the betterment of our city. There hasn't been much (if any) displayed in the news. What he does off the clock...if it affects our community, we should be kept informed. If it's for his personal gains...that's his business unless it has anything to do with something that affects all of us.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

lolol...even Wikipedia hasn't anything positive to say about our major accomplishments except for changing his stance on tolling.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Nails...I still stand by my opinion on the mayor race. That is my perspective on the subject.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

(my perspective) I am thankful I have health insurance but for those in my family who do not at this time...the process is frustrating to them. The members who have to pay for their health care...are feeling the pinch on insurance costs. Recently, it was my opinion that our government should have some kind of control on health care costs...maybe even put a price cap on cost of health care so that insurance companies as well as medical facilities and Big Pharma couldn't continue skyrocketing health care costs. It was pointed out to me that we shouldn't be nitpicking health care reform and should take it as it comes...that it's good for us. Those who have to pay out of pocket are forced to less than adequate health care coverage in order to afford keeping food on the table and even then, the cost of the deductibles, the policy AND the out of pocket expenses will be worse than ever. Some may's better than nothing. I see it as an opportunity for the health care industry to profiteer off of the people and we can't do anything about it because we HAVE to carry health insurance no matter what or be fined, thanks to this Affordable(???) Care Act. Affordable for whom???

What they aren't saying is if you owe any back can't sign on with the government health care plans till you pay your taxes...even if you can't afford to pay those back taxes. Then, you'll be charge a fine for not paying for health insurance!!!

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't...if you're part of the rat race middle class.

But's good for us.

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Too bad the Liberal Choir is Tone Deaf Hawk.

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(my perspective) Hmm..Insurance Companies getting our money on top of what we'd have to pay to the doctors or hospitals or even pharmacies...

Government getting our money through fines if we don't buy into the insurance plans.

Please somebody...tell me again why the ACA is a good thing???

goldenoldie — October 18, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I will do my best to mention something like "another perspective, not necessarily mine" or something along that manner. Does that work for you???"

Yes. It closes a back door.

Among other things, he seems to be a job creator in his personal time. I'm not championing Mayor Leavitt as being the best thing since polyurethane bowling balls, just suggesting he doesn't deserve to be demonized the way so many have done.

My assertion: "He's a young, active, energetic guy who seems to get the job done, and he seems to have Vancouver's best interest in mind. (electric train or not)"

Of course his own website is biased in nature-but show me discrepancies and I'll be the first to E-mail him and point them out.

This from his website:

[After serving on the Vancouver City Council for seven years, Leavitt was elected as Mayor in 2009. During that time he has served as a C-TRAN Board Member, including Chair of the Board from 2006 to 2008. Leavitt also has served on numerous boards, commissions and panels relating to transportation (Regional Transportation Council subcommittees), neighborhood revitalization (Fourth Plain Corridor), natural resource preservation (Lower Columbia Fish Recovery Board), community building (Safe Community Coalition and Fourth Plain Corridor Task Force) and education (Clark College Alumni Association).

Tim is also the Senior Civil Engineer for PBS Engineering + Environmental. The Vancouver Office of PBS was opened by Leavitt and a PBS Owner in 2000 and has flourished. Now with nearly 30 employees, the company is the leading local engineering and environmental firm in Vancouver, providing a broad range of expert consulting services for a wide range of small businesses and local organizations.]

"He's a young, active, energetic guy who seems to get the job done, and he seems to have Vancouver's best interest in mind. (electric train or not)"

Good luck to any of us if we could keep up with this guy.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail. Are you sipping some suds or have a cold. This can't ne our basement Nail. I will forward your Endorsement to now Two Term Timmy ... Wife wants to know if you have re stocked the frig.

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 6:43: You asked what Mayor Leavitt who, in addition to a pretty good track record of creating jobs as a private sector manager, has done for the Community. One thing that impressed me was a certificate of appreciation he recently received from one of the Clark County's Veterans group for the 28+ Veterans events he's attended since becoming Mayor. You can nitpick as to whether those are on the clock or part of the job, but his attendance is voluntary and deeply appreciated.

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 18, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.

Stocked and ready to go!

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As you note, Councilor Tim Leavitt was Chair of the C-Tran Board from 2006-2008. Per documents that once were easy to find on the CRC website, he also served on a few of the local advisory groups that were allowed to provide input during the early planning days. It's completely ludicrous to believe that he didn't know tolls would be needed to build the project. WSDOT had publicly declared tolling would be used on bridge projects in 2007, and this practice was was also being promoted by people like Michael Ennis in early 2008. As Royce Pollard noted in their election campaign, thinking the CRC could be built with no tolls was a ridiculous idea; the goal was to keep them low so they wouldn't harm Vancouver commuters.

Yeah - He gets the job done.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.

Seems like most or all of Leavitt's detractors cite his change of mind on tolling and nothing else. Fine. But with the myriad of job responsibilities he has, both on and off the clock, I have to give him props.

One unpopular decision shouldn't define a Mayor's tenure in my opinion.

And if we're speaking of honesty and responsible business practices...

...and who's the other guy. (the partner that's currently living, I think, Turley?)

I'll go with 2TermTimmy.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 18, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.,

There are some Vets who believe this certificate was a political move backed by Larry Smith. Has he ever actually done anything? I don't see as how one's veteran status qualifies or disqualifies you for office, mind you, but there are a whole lot of us who stay away from those kinds of organizations because of maneuverings like this.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't want either - I'd rather have Pollard back. He was an arrogant old SOB who thought his word was law (Betty Sue had to correct him on that one time), but he wasn't a sneak.

But I don't even live in the city! Why in hell am I worrying about this?

I'd rather figure out how to vote on the GMO initiative.

I can accept people believing they have the right to know. Fine. Buy organic. It seems kind of silly to create a whole new department for testing, etc, and to otherwise add a lot more expense to our lives (and probably food cost) for something that's been going on with our food for years. My gut reaction is to vote No.

Anyone see anything wrong with that reasoning?

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:20 p.m.

roger- I'm up in the air on this one. On one hand I think the more consumer info the better. On the other I hate to see unnecessary burdens placed on manufacturers. On the other it might create departmental testing jobs. On the other...

In part, that's why I'm a no on the initiative to bring more initiatives.

(disclaimer:of course my vote can be had for a jar of unmarked peaches on this)

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Nails, don't know if anyone else is left, so a good one from Cheap Trick.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Initiative 517 is a definite no for me. Anything with Tim Eyman's name attached to it is NO.

I like The Stranger's description of this initiative:

"This initiative is another steaming turd from right-wing profiteer Tim Eyman, who makes a nice living for himself running initiatives that pander to voters by promising to reduce taxes (then pissing off voters because those initiatives wind up gutting stuff people love, like money for schools). And I-517 is Eyman's most self-serving initiative yet: It makes it cheaper and easier for him to run even more initiatives! I-517 would double the length of time allowed to gather signatures from six months to 12. It would also force sensible people who want to ask gullible people not to sign one of Tim's stupid initiatives to stay 25 feet away from his signature gatherers. Even business owners could be thrown in the slammer for attempting to bar aggressive signature gatherers from private property! It's stupid, it's unnecessary, and it will just lead to more stupid, unnecessary Eyman initiatives making it onto your ballot. Vote no on I-517."

manthou — October 18, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(Laughing) That canning is expensive as hell - and I'm not worried about whether the little fruits are GMO'd - I'm more worried about them being soaked in pesticides.

I dumped the peach project - I had a fruit fly infestation that took two weeks to get rid of. I've moved on to trying to create the world's best ever apple butter. I'm pretty much narrowing the apples down to a mixture of Granny Smiths and Gravensteins, but need to get the spice mixture under control. And with my habit of spicing to taste (rather than measuring), I'm never sure how much of each I used.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"In part, that's why I'm a no on the initiative to bring more initiatives"

manthou- And that's the other part.

Breaking News---Cards going to the series

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Apple butter would do it also.

Honest to goodness Fuji Apples have been my favorite for some years.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Evening, Mayor Manthou --

I've already decided to agree with your take on 517. I read that a couple of times and decided WTF was the best reaction. I'm not sure what the concern is over petition gatherers - It's people like me who actually stop and ask them to explain the issue who are the greatest threat, because most of the people doing this are clueless (Hey, Buddy, I'm just trying to make a buck, OK?) And last I heard, you need the owner's permission to do something like this on private property - if they say No, well too bad.

The 6 months to gather signatures we have now should be plenty of time. And if you don't have your petition written and legally screened before that 6 month clock starts running, then you deserve to lose out.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:20 p.m

I am at a stalemate so far on it myself. I understand that the AG has filed a lawsuit on the group against.

While I'd like to know which foods are GMO and which aren't, if they are not going to label all foods then my vote will be no, unless plans are to add more later on.
Farmers already know if they are growing GMO food items, farmers/ranchers already know if they are using GMO feed for animals.
The Agricultural dept already knows who uses/grows/feed with GMO. After all the Ag. dept had to clear all feed and seed to begin with.
So as I see it the only ones that will have to declare GMO foods are the much could that cost to put GMO or NON-GMO on food packages?

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail & Roger, I really don't have a dog in the Mayor's fight but I like Timmy's odds. Turley is on Madore's list which moves him off mine. I can't really complain about Tim, I know he really wanted to go toll free but eventually reality sneaks in and he realized it wasn't going to work. The money has to come from somewhere. The only complaint I have is that they (the City) won't let me take the trees down.

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Fuji apples are outstanding for eating. I made a batch of applesauce with them that turned out pretty bland - had to dump some cinnamon (and maybe a little pumpkin pie spice) in to liven it up. Most of my reading says go with tarter apples.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

Back in my residential Nihon days, we'd get em' bigger than softballs. The sweetest juiciest fruit I think I've ever had. I've read the same thing about using tarter apples for such.

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

With this latest self inflicted crisis of Madore's, anyone he endorses most likely will take a hard hit. Mumbles & Bumbles are pretty toxic right now.

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger here's a list for best applesauce making apples...
Crispin (Mutsu)
Golden Delicious
Ida Red

These are best for applebutter..
Grimes Golden
Ida Red

Best canning/freezing web site to check and step by step recipes is

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL The Ghosts Adventure show is at the Mustang Ranch in Reno to look for ghosts tonight.

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, the city has some crazy rule about getting permission to cut trees down - you have to replace them with more trees. (If I'm getting rid of a tree, the odds are I don't want another one there.) Stupid rules that cause developers to infest developments with cheap nasty trees like those dirty arborvitaes (I took them out later). About a year after I moved in, I decided the three trees near the road were going to get about 60 feet high and cause ongoing maintenance problems - So I decided to take them out. I had one down and was working on the next, when a city truck pulled up and the driver lectured me on those city rules. I had to point and inform him the city ended two blocks that way. Have a nice day.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi - I already discovered that site, and referred to it extensively when starting. Definitely one of the most informative ones. Thanks.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Janis, doing Little Girl Blue. That girl had soul.

roger — October 18, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I go between that site and my trusty Ball Canning/Freezing book I bought years ago at The Red Barn (where I go to buy farm fresh veggies) each summer and fall. I was just there last weekend and they still sell them. They also have nice choices of squash this year.
Picked up some Sweet Dumpling squash..never had going to give it a try.

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Janis and Tina Turner...2 of my all time favorite female singers.

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh and Macy Gray gets a nod also

ELISI — October 18, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 9:07 p.m.

These are dead in the middle of downtown. A few of them are 80 feet tall and love to drop leaves and acorns all over the place. So messy. We are more than willing to replace them after we fix the sidewalks but they refused. There are ten trees on the block, I guess I'm stuck with them.

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tea Republicans are ramping up for 2014.

Damn near unbelievable. But this is what they do. This is who they are.

///Rick Scarborough, Tea Party Leader, Suggests Class Action Lawsuit Against Homosexuality///

Former Baptist pastor and Tea Party Unity founder Rick Scarborough spoke with conservative activist Peter LaBarbera on Thursday about potential anti-gay strategies, including a class action lawsuit against homosexuality.

“The whole issue of a class action lawsuit, you and I have talked about this a little bit,” Scarborough told LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth about Homosexuality, in a conversation at a Tea Party Unity gathering Thursday. People For the American Way’s Right Wing Watch, a progressive advocacy group that monitors and reports on conservative political organizations, posted a partial transcript and audio recording of the discussion.

Scarborough said he believes homosexuality and tobacco companies should be equally vulnerable to class action lawsuits.

"Obviously, statistically now even the Centers for Disease Control verifies that homosexuality much more likely leads to AIDS than smoking leads to cancer. And yet the entire nation has rejected smoking, billions of dollars are put into a trust fund to help cancer victims and the tobacco industry was held accountable for that," Scarborough said.

The CDC reported in 2008 that “more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.”

But LaBarbera agreed with Scarborough, Raw Story reported, and added, “We need to work on our conservative, alternate media and say, ‘look, don’t do the pro-gay thing, why don’t you rather step out and support these ex-gays?’ We should encourage Fox News to tell these stories ... these wonderful stories of happy men and women who have left the homosexual lifestyle.”

Earlier this year, Scarborough expressed anti-gay sentiments, declaring the word “gay” an “abuse of the language” during a guest sermon in New Jersey.

"They're not gay ... that's a twist into the words," Scarborough argued. "It won't be long until we'll be calling pedophiles 'happy people.'"

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10:37 p.m.

This is a total "strawman" fallacy, the Republican party traditionally has been more accepting of gay members than the Democrats. Using a related "strawman" fallacy I could point out that Fred Phelps is a lifelong Democrat, so all Democrats must be homophobic lunatics. Let go of your unreasonable hate, both democrats and republicans want what is best for the Country, they just have different ideas of how to get there.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at midnight ( | suggest removal

Ah yes, Westboro baptist church are democrats. Fro, you trot that out on a regular basis. Gets very old.
I think the problem is that we are no longer talking about the GOP. We are talking about tea drinkers. It would be best for the survival of the Republican Party if they were finally to form their own, third party. Then they could rant about everybody and everything they don't like as long as they want and see how many voters will support them. That would let the GOP and cooler heads focus on what they should, namely a functioning government.
As to homosexuality. I really do question their rabid focus on this. Me thinks many do protest a bit too much.

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 4:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, were you referring to the Red Barn out on the fruit loop drive? We love that place. Today is yard work all day, but tomorrow we will make use of the weather and do the drive through Gorge, hitting the stands. I always find good, fresh stuff out there. And the views are incredible.

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 18, 2013 at 8:13 p.m: I’m not much of a jointer myself, but I just couldn't resist the irony of those who are yelling loudest about Leavitt’s award are also some of the worst offenders in Clark County at using their veterans card for partisan political purposes having little or nothing to do with veterans issues.

JohnK — October 19, 2013 at 5:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 5:22 a.m

If it's The Red Barn off Airport way just east of Costco, yes. They sit between Marine Dr and Airport way. Been buying fruits and veggie there since the '70's.

ELISI — October 19, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Garry Lucas: He’s the sheriff, a good man, low key, grounded. A conservative."
holycrapola — October 19, 2013 at 6:34 a.m

What Lou wrote about Garry Lucas is right on.. and by the way HC Lucas is a good guy, he isn't a "cop" he is a "sheriff" there is a difference. But, then again you DO NOT live in Clark County so you haven't a clue. No clue what so ever about the character of Lucas and all the good he has done for this community.
You spew hate against anyone that isn't in your fantasy world bubble.

ELISI — October 19, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 4:24 a.m.

Fred Phelps IS a democrat, as is convicted felon Jesse Jackson Jr. and social Conservative Sam Nunn. My point to Nail was using one person to try to define all Republicans, Democrats or Tea Party members is a "strawman" fallacy. I don't believe for a minute that Phelps speaks for the entire Democratic party, so why shouldn't I call out Nail when he (through repost of some artilce) insists that some State legislator or talk show host speaks for all Republicans.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails and JohnK, I wasn't asking what Mayor Leavitt did in his time away from the duties of the Mayor. Paul Allen donates millions upon millions to hospitals and charities but he still has sweat shops producing his goods. I was asking what Tim Leavitt has accomplished AS Mayor over the past 3-3/4 years that is positive for the community. Don't you have anything??? Sam Adams...even with what negativity was in his career...had a better write up than Leavitt.

I'll be waiting...and I'm sure the voters are getting tired of waiting for action as well.

goldenoldie — October 19, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, remember I was wondering yesterday when the Clark County counsels would tell Madore to muzzle himself and stop giving media interviews?

It finally happened, but a little too late, in my opinion, since the KOIN interview cat is out of the bag. Also, Greg Ferguson has copies of his numerous FB posts (some of which Madore has pulled) and infamous apology: "The buck stops here."

Madore also erroneous claims that lawsuits don't cost tax payers much money, because the prosecuting attorneys, who defend the likes of Madore, are already on payroll.


What about paying 10.5 million dollars and plaintiff attorneys fees that our insurance refuses to cover?

We'll see how long it takes Madore to violate this late-to-the-party gag order. He just can't help himself, poor dear.

From his latest, wee-hours-of-the-morning-FB-confession:

"Anytime someone files something against the county, the PA’s office advises that we pull back any public comments and let their staff handle inquiries. Per our Prosecuting Attorneys’ counsel, I have removed FB posts related to our Environmental Services staff. Per standard protocol, I can say no more."

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 18, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

I thought at one time you said you lived in the Battleground area.

Ladies and Gents...will the REAL Hawkeye please stand up.

goldenoldie — October 19, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 19, 2013 at 7:04 a.m. don't live in the Clark County area so you don't know what Sheriff Lucas is doing. In Portland, how long does it take for a deputy to show up in times of when you had that vehicle parked in front of your place, watching your residence? Wait...maybe you didn't even CALL 911. Wait probably don't even remember it.

The CCSO, run by Sheriff Lucas has been able to keep officers at the high schools...something we need these days with everything that goes on. The officers have always been quite respectable with our family in times of need. Any questions any of us or our friends have had...the precinct in Brush Prairie was more than eager to assist. Seems to me, things are going right...and it takes a good leader to maintain that.

I agree with ELISI...Sheriff Lucas IS a good guy. He's a human first. He's a community peace officer by trade. Do you even know what he's done outside of being the Sheriff? What problem do you have with him, holykaka??? Is it because he's a man who believes in keeping the peace and holds true to his religion?

goldenoldie — October 19, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

By the way, Madore is playing the martyr with his base again.

Did you know that he is the target of this latest lawsuit because he stood up for corruption and waste?

I decided that his into-the-night FB postings are his way of creating his alternative reality. He asserts concepts that are not true and then typically asks: "Who is with me? Are you with me?" Then, Madore usually gets the feedback he needs to feed his ego and fairy tale world from the handful of usual suspects.

I tell you, his personality profile should be a case study in psychology books. It soon may be in Criminology texts if he keeps it up.

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 7:26 -- I find it both astonishing and not. Do you think he has any self-awareness that these current actions might be perceived as the acts of a desperate man?

To manthou, langenthal, and any other SWBH watchers:

I see that this Friday is the SWBH annual meeting where they elect a new chair and vice-chair. Should I be nervous that Madore might be elected to the chair? It wouldn't be worth the irony, IMO.

pfaffmachine — October 19, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 19, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.

I do live in BG but I work downtown. Just ask Tim. I work the block behind his shop.

hawkeye — October 19, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 19, 2013 at 5:26 a.m.

Very true. I also dropped my American Legion membership a few years back when they decided to get involved in the "We are a Christian nation" controversy. Groups that support veterans should focus on our issues and stay out of the political stuff. (Especially when I disagree.)

Now, if I could just remember to ask for that 10% discount at Lowes and Home Depot....

roger — October 19, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: If you weren't asking what Mayor Leavitt does in "his time away from the duties of the Mayor,' why did you ask for answers as to what he's done 'off the clock?' But either way, I've no idea and little interest in the Mayor's private life as long as it doesn't adversely affect the City and there's no evidence of that.
As to what he's done as Mayor, I'd say he's done a good job of attracting major employers to Vancouver, certainly City Hall has become more citizen friendly, responsive, efficient, and unlike Clark Co, remarkably free of scandals and partisan favoritism.

JohnK — October 19, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Well-said.

pfaffmachine @ 7:43 am. I don't think anyone with any brains would hand over the Chairmanship of SWBH to Madore, but I get your anxiety over it.

I noticed that Madore is much less opinionated and obstructive at these SWBH meetings. He knows very little about best practices mental health treatment and he seems to listen to those who do. He does not pull some of the outrageous maneuvers that he does at other board meetings.

But, hey, he might just be biding his time. In the meantime, we'll keep watching and putting the spotlight on him.

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

First off a-wipe he was UNDER sheriff before he was Sheriff, NOT A COP.

Check out "Santa Posse", first yr he along with the CC Rotary Club started this program they provided Christmas, food and gifts for 35 needy families in Clark County, now they serve well over 1500 families.

Each March, Lucas and other sheriff's have their mustaches shaved off to raise money for cancer.

Look at the massive drugs raids, which he received international recognition for.

He also went to the Clark County commissioners to create a community task force to inspect and shut down Value Motel in Hazel Dell.

Try reading WHY they put the tracking GPS in patrol cars, might surprise you.

He stopped Madore in his tracks when he wanted to install FastNav in our schools.

He also donates his time to work with Special Olympic athletes.

That is just a few things off the top..there is more, if you want to know, then by all means look for it yourself, but again I say, what does it matter, you are NOT a resident here.

ELISI — October 19, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I had no idea Home Depot gave a vet discount. It seems to be a bit hit and miss though:

What the heck, next time I'm in there I'll whip out my VA medical card (shrug).

Drift — October 19, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Now I have better things to do than sit here and argue with a fool, cause if you argue with one they will always bring you down to their level.

ELISI — October 19, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Erik Hidle (happy anniversary, BTW) and APIL has done a good job of highlighting Madore's latest PR maneuver very well. Hidle posted the deleted "apology.";_medium=rss&utm;_campaign=here-is-the-facebook-post-that-county-attorneys-asked-madore-to-delete

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elision, I meant the Red Barn out near Hood River. I am unaware of the one you mentioned. Where exactly is it? Sounds like a good place to get fresh stuff.

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.

"The post also explains he is being targeted for fighting corruption, that “corrupt local public officials play every trick in the book to defraud Clark County citizens of hundreds of millions of dollars” and asks readers of his post to stand with him as he works to “defend our community” from whoever is doing all of this to him."

Wonder who that might be? Maybe he has a split personality. Or it's that guy in the mirror.

hawkeye — October 19, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Ah, yes. We have our very own Captain Queeg right here in Clark County, don't we?

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nice autocorrect! Elision... Obviously meant Elisi. I googled Red Barn and found it. Thanks for the tip, I think I will check that one out.

Fro, thanks for clarifying. Phelps, however, is not in politics, he is in lala land. He should not be your first example.

Also, my point is, where is the real GOP? Why did they let themselves be hijacked by tea folks? Where are the normal, moderate people that the party still contains? The schism was obvious in the latest fiasco. That story is not over yet. To say we want to shut down again, nothing is off the table, to win their point, do you really think the party is united in this?

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The trick is, when you get to the checkout counter (human type), tell the cashier you'd like your military discount and show your card. The cashier will probably be clueless and call the manager, who (in my experience) just pushes the required entry into the register after checking my card and then is off to other business. This all has to be done before the cashier starts ringing up your purchase; otherwise they get pissy because they have to delete and start over.

Home Depot's policy is actually quite vague, and I don't know for sure if they'd honor a VA card. Lowes policy says "Veterans who have retired after 20 years of service and/or those who receive VA Benefits", which I would think would include medical care. (I use my blue card; haven't ever tried with my VA card.) Both have restrictions. The only time I bother using it is for larger purchases.

roger — October 19, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.

" Phelps, however, is not in politics" He has had a political career with several runs and many votes from "social conservative" democrats. He is more of a politician than the person quoted in Nail's link.

The real GOP was not taken over by the "tea folks" they tried to take back the party before being taken over themselves by the NeoCons. NeoCons are not conservative, they are liberal, you can't fund non-defensive wars if you are conservative. The republican party has become a center-left party, fiscally the same as democrats, just with different goals.

Please don't take offense, I am not comparing modern liberals to NeoCons but fiscally they both advocate larger more intrusive and more expensive government.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't have the blue card. My old shipmate, Stone, does though. The Evergreen Aviation Museum gives a discount. I showed my medical card, Stone showed his blue card; on his phone.

Drift — October 19, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for your explanation of your thoughts, Fro. No offense taken

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou at 8.30 a.m. -- Thanks! My anxiety is somewhat alleviated. I'm still processing Madore's response to Dale Jarvis at the August SWBH regarding hourly rate fees for psychiatrists ("340 dollars an hour? That's more than an attorney makes..."). Fortunately, as I'm sure you saw, Jarvis schooled him (in a delight, fact-filled fashion, no less). Misner was a bit of a snot about that too, I might add. Sigh.

pfaffmachine — October 19, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mayor manthou — October 19, 2013 at 8:52 a.m

[Madore] "Thank God for Facebook that bypasses all the spin."

Oh yeah!

Thank you God.

As a side note; can anyone produce something that indicates our gracious tea party republicans embrace Gay lifestyles? A word, a write, a platform...anything? Something that speaks to treating those of diverse sexual preferences as equals?

Melons to pickles, I'm not finding it.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine: Those who work in mental health understand that there is a serious shortage of available psychiatrists who are willing to work for the government. If government does not want to pay them, they have other options. The citizens in need of mental health services don't have those options, do they? Psychiatrists' case loads are enormous and they have had to go through years of training to earn their degrees and licenses.

Let's see: there are forensic psychiatrists now who work in WA state that charge $450 an hour. And attorneys who charge the same and more. I know that one of the attorneys who won the recent 10.5 million dollar case against CC earns $450 an hour. There are attorneys who earn more than $750 an hour.

Madore must be getting his personal attorneys at bargain basement rates.

God knows he has never paid for the services of a psychiatrist, although he might consider it if his behavioral control keeps disintegrating at the rate it appears to be.

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's unfortunate it takes years and a dead doctor to receive any type of justice, but a measure of justice indeed.

///Former Kansas attorney general’s law license suspended over targeting of abortion providers///

-The court unanimously found that Kline's "overzealous advocacy" and "improper motives" led to "numerous" violations-

The Kansas Supreme Court on Friday suspended the law license of former state Attorney General Phill Kline for misconduct in connection with his prosecution of abortion providers, including the late George Tiller. The court unanimously found that Kline’s “overzealous advocacy” and “improper motives” led to “significant and numerous” violations of professional conduct, which the court deemed “particularly troubling in light of his service as the chief prosecuting attorney for this state and its most populous county.”

Kline, whom Operation Rescue named “Man of the Year” in 2006, prosecuted cases involving Planned Parenthood and Tiller, who was one of the country’s few remaining late-term abortion providers before he was murdered by an antiabortion activist in 2009.

Shortly after being elected in 2002, Kline began an investigation into Tiller’s clinic, eventually obtaining patients’ personal medical records. Many of these documents were later leaked to Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly, though Kline denied he was the source of the leak.

The case against Tiller was eventually thrown out by the Kansas Supreme Court.

According to the 154-page report, the court found that Kline had “repeatedly violated many of the Kansas Rules of Professional Conduct, including … the rules that prohibit engaging in false or dishonest conduct.” The seven-member court recommended Kline’s license be suspended indefinitely, though he will be able to seek the reinstatement of his license in three years.

In a stinging rebuke of Kline’s conduct, the court concluded, “Ultimately, we unanimously conclude the weight of the aggravating factors — i.e., Kline’s inability or refusal to acknowledge the line between overzealous advocacy and operating within the bounds of the law and his professional obligations; his selfish motives; and his lengthy and substantial pattern of misconduct — weigh more heavily than the mitigating factors and merit his indefinite suspension.”

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Looking at ballot here. Those advisory votes...Jewish. And so well written...non partisan...

However, there' s Roger's name. Know that one will be filled in :)

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My apologies. Autocorrect is killing me! That was supposed to be: jeez, not Jewish.
Darn iPad

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:37 a.m.

Liberals love to point out the Koch brothers influence over the "tea party" and they have been pro gay marriage since long before it was popular, and even went on the record condemning Romney's position last election. The majority of tea party groups take no stand on social issues. The burden of proof would be on the person making the claim, and anecdotal evidence is not proof. I can come up with many instances of democrat homophobia, misogyny and bigotry, but I don't try to use that to implicate all democrats.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.

In the spirit of your continued "strawman" fallacies, I feel compelled to point out that high ranking democrats Jesse Jackson Jr. and Rod Blagojevich are convicted felons, so all democrats must be criminals.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I was ready to throw my little MacBook Air into the trash due to the "smart" auto correct.

There is a way to disable the demon. I had to google the steps so I cannot remember them.

I was gonna ask you: "Jewish?" Huh?

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 9:47 a.m. -- Some of my best friends are psychiatrists, and some of them do indeed work for the gov't. It's my understanding that there is a shortage of psychiatrists, full stop, and certainly a shortage in the greater Portland area. And I don't need to tell you about the training, but I do wonder if the general population at large and, more frighteningly, elected officials who serve on boards of mental health organizations understand the basic differences between psychiatrists, psychologists, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Madore looked for attorney services for US Digital on craigslist and ebay.

Also, correction: "delight" should be "delightful". D'oh.

pfaffmachine — October 19, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Simply put: Fox News Lies


///Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare///

UPDATE I re-reported a Fox News segment on Obamacare -- it was appallingly easy to see how it misleads the audience

I happened to turn on the Hannity show on Fox News last Friday evening. “Average Americans are feeling the pain of Obamacare and the healthcare overhaul train wreck,” Hannity announced, “and six of them are here tonight to tell us their stories.”  Three married couples were neatly arranged in his studio, the wives seated and the men standing behind them, like game show contestants.

As Hannity called on each of them, the guests recounted their “Obamacare” horror stories: canceled policies, premium hikes, restrictions on the freedom to see a doctor of their choice, financial burdens upon their small businesses and so on.

“These are the stories that the media refuses to cover,” Hannity interjected.

But none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.

I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C.  He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.

There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Next I called Allison Denijs.  She’d told Hannity that she pays over $13,000 a year in premiums. Like the other guests, she said she had recently gotten a letter from Blue Cross saying that her policy was being terminated and a new, ACA-compliant policy would take its place. She says this shows that Obama lied when he promised Americans that we could keep our existing policies.

Allison’s husband left his job a few years ago, one with benefits at a big company, to start his own business. Since then they’ve been buying insurance on the open market, and are now paying around $1,100 a month for a policy with a $2,500 deductible per family member, with hefty annual premium hikes.  One of their two children is not covered under the policy. She has a preexisting condition that would require purchasing additional coverage for $600 a month, which would bring the family’s grand total to around $20,000 a year.

I asked Allison if she’d shopped on the exchange, to see what a plan might cost under the new law. She said she hadn’t done so because she’d heard the website was not working. Would she try it out when it’s up and running? Perhaps, she said. She told me she has long opposed Obamacare, and that the president should have focused on tort reform as a solution to bringing down the price of healthcare.

I tried an experiment and shopped on the exchange for Allison and Kurt. Assuming they don’t smoke and have a household income too high to be eligible for subsidies, I found that they would be able to get a plan for around $7,600, which would include coverage for their uninsured daughter. This would be about a 60 percent reduction from what they would have to pay on the pre-Obamacare market.

Allison also told me that the letter she received from Blue Cross said that in addition to the policy change for ACA compliance, in the new policy her physician network size might be reduced.  That’s something insurance companies do to save money, with or without Obamacare on the horizon, just as they raise premiums with or without Obamacare coming.

If Allison’s choice of doctor was denied her through Obamacare then, yes, she could have a claim that Obamacare has hurt her. But she’d also have thousands of dollars in her pocket that she didn’t have before.

Finally, I called Robbie and Tina Robison from Franklin, Tenn.  Robbie is self-employed as a Christian youth motivational speaker. (You can see his work here.) On Hannity, the couple said that they, too, were recently notified that their Blue Cross policy would be expiring for lack of ACA compliance. They told Hannity that the replacement plans Blue Cross was offering would come with a rate increase of 50 percent or even 75 percent, and that the new offerings would contain all sorts of benefits they don’t need, like maternity care, pediatric care, prenatal care and so forth.  

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Their kids are grown and moved out, so why should they be forced to pay extra for a health plan with superfluous features?

When I spoke to Robbie, he said he and Tina have been paying a little over $800 a month for their plan, about $10,000 a year. And the ACA-compliant policy that will cost 50-75 percent more? They said this information was related to them by their insurance agent.

Had they shopped on the exchange yet, I asked? No, Tina said, nor would they. They oppose Obamacare and want nothing to do with it. Fair enough, but they should know that I found a plan for them for, at most, $3,700 a year, 63 percent less than their current bill.  It might cover things that they don’t need, but so does every insurance policy.

It’s true that we don’t know for sure whether certain ills conservatives have warned about will occur once Obamacare is fully enacted. For example, will we truly have the same freedom to choose a physician that we have now? Will a surplus of insured patients require a scaling back (or “rationing,” as some call it) of provided healthcare services?  Will doctors be able to spend as much time with patients? These are all valid, unanswered questions. The problem is that people like Sean Hannity have decided to answer them now, without evidence. Or worse, with fake evidence.

I don’t doubt that these six individuals believe that Obamacare is a disaster; but none of them had even visited the insurance exchange. And some of them appear to have taken actions (Paul Cox, for example) based on a general pessimistic belief about Obamacare. He’s certainly entitled to do so, but Hannity is not entitled to point to Paul’s behavior as an “Obamacare train wreck story” and maintain any credibility that he might have as a journalist.

Strangely, the recent shutdown was based almost entirely on a small percentage of Congress’s belief that Obamacare, as Ted Cruz puts it, “is destroying America.”  Cruz has rarely given us an example of what he’s talking about.  That’s because the best he can do is what Hannity did—exploit people’s ignorance and falsely point to imaginary boogeymen.

Update: To check the plans I used this useful calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

You should understand that there is a difference between news and opinion. When comparing records Hannity has a better track record than Maddow. Hannity has 38% true and 13% mostly true. Maddow has 6% true and 25% mostly true. I am not implying that Maddow should be held to the same standards as real news, but neither should Hannity.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

"I was ready to throw my little MacBook Air into the trash due to the "smart" auto correct."

Don't do it! Throw it my way!

We gifted a MacAir to my youngest as a Graduation gift this year and I'm envious. I'm amazed at how thin and light it is. She loves it. My family have been diehard Apple users for more years than I care to remember.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine: Indeed, there needs to be a push to educate newly elected officials who might know a lot about everything else but not much about mental health services. Unfortunately, we have two commissioners right now with an evangelical worldview that often looks at psychology and psychiatry as snake oil. I never will forget Mielke's assertion that mental illness can be cured through "tough love." Master of the Personal Anecdote that man.

$340 an hour is a bargain for a well-trained and experienced psychiatrist. Child and adolescent psychiatrists are even more in demand and less available. State and county governments in rural areas are using "video consulting" to get support for clients in need of psychiatric services, as you probably already know. :)

All we can do, as education professionals and citizens, is keep on monitoring and speaking up and testifying. It is more critical than ever to counter some of the misinformation our politicians promote.

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I do prefer my MacBook Air to an IPad. It is so darn easy to carry in my little backpack for travel. My trackpad was fussy, though, and it took awhile for it to "memorize" my personal movement style. It used to autosend emails before I was finished. :)

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I still have a desktop PC which I use for "real" work. I got the mini iPad while hubby uses the first gen iPad and I love the thing. Was so nice to travel with in Germany. My iPhone is great. The college kid got a MaC Pro when she went off to college, figured a kiddie needs something sturdy with fewer viruses. She loves it. Three years and zero issues.
So yea, we like our Apple products. Need to debate on laptop or Mac laptop for work here shortly. Can't make up my mind.

Autocorrect can be easily turned off in settings. I did that once and found out I can't type well. Lol, so it's back on. Today it just doesn't want to cooperate.

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I will not buy any apple product, I consider them the same as Nike, no more than modern slave holders.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 19, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.

A Mac Pro is what I use also. Wouldn't trade it for the world-except for a MacAir (maybe).

The verdict is in. No mental health issues beyond a strong belief in "God".

It wouldn't surprise me if these types of antics become more prominent as the Republican party implodes.

I can see something similar happening at one of our Clark County Commish meetings if things aren't going a groups way. :)

Maybe Dave himself will gift us with prophecy. (although I think the handwriting is already on the wall) As in Daniel's revelation-Madore feels as though he's in the lion's den also.

///House Stenographer Credits ‘Holy Spirit’ for Her Rant Against Congress///

The House stenographer who erupted into a verbal tirade against members of Congress in the midst of the vote to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling today said the “holy spirit” told her to do it.

“For the past 2 and 1/2 weeks, the Holy Spirit has been waking me up in the middle of the night and preparing me (through my reluctance and doubt) to deliver a message in the House Chamber,” the stenographer, Dianne Reidy, said in a written statement to Fox News. “That is what I did last night.”
Reidy’s husband, Dan, told Fox that his wife “is a sweet, level-headed wonderful woman of God.”

“I am proud of her,” Dan Reidy told Fox.

In an interview with the New York Post on Thursday, Reidy reportedly said, she’s “never felt better” and that she plans to return to work next week.

“I’m glad that I fulfilled God’s mission for me, absolutely,” she said, according to the Post. “It lifted a tremendous burden. It was a very hard burden to carry as you can imagine.”

The comments are the first clues about why Reidy shouted into a microphone during Wednesday night’s vote,  an act that led to her forcible removal from the chamber of the House of Representatives.

Read more @

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 10:15 a.m.

I think there should be a FULL SCREEN DISCLAIMER on all "non news" entertainment programs (that could be construed as news) saying that this show is for entertainment use ONLY!

hawkeye — October 19, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger & Drift I use my VA medical card at Home Depot. If you belong to the VFW I believe they honor those also. Roger I am thinking about dropping my American Legion membership to. I think the VFW does way more to help vets.VFW has a office in the Vancouver VA building it is usualy staffed by Roger Proctor. That man really knows how to navigate the VA paper work. If you ever need help go see him.

timerick — October 19, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 19, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

Good idea, too many stations on both sides imply that their opinion is news.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 19, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

Polititfact replaced their Chief Editor just a couple of weeks ago. The org has long been criticized for their absurdities and placed in the "irrelevant" category by most for some time.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The VFW is in the building to the right of the clinic. I believe it's sort of a husband and wife team, time. He has the front office, she the back. Yeah, they're good folks.

Drift — October 19, 2013 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Matthew Singer's WW piece on Elliott Smith: superb. It is hard to believe that his death is 10 years old. Suicide or homicide? Whatever, a loss.

Any other Elliott Smith fans out there?

manthou — October 19, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.

Not counting Maddow's "hissy fit" about being told she is wrong, who are the "many" that are calling Pulitzer prize winning politifact irrelevant?

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 19, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.
Drift — October 19, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.

The wife's name is Deb. Roger was Army (I think Vietnam), and Deb is a retired Navy Chief. Outstanding people. She's the one I see when I go there. The first time I went there I was surprised - it was crowded as hell. I was going to leave and Deb saw me (we worked in the same place a few years earlier) - told me to sign in and don't worry about the time. Anyhow, while waiting, an old lady (had to be at least 80) came out crying - Seems her husband was a Vet who died years earlier, and she had a problem with lack of paperwork or something getting benefits due her. The Proctors were the first ones she'd ever seen who cared enough to take the time to figure out the problem, track down what was needed, and get her straightened out. I'm an impatient type who hates waiting, but after hearing that I wasn't going anywhere.

roger — October 19, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What beautiful weather. If I had a nickel for every leaf raked up today, I could buy a CCC seat.

Interesting take on the current GOP civil war.

///The Ted Cruz Armageddon Is Coming///

-A new Pew poll shows Tea Partiers’ devotion to the otherwise divisive senator. Can the Republican establishment stop him before it’s 2016? By Michael Tomasky.-

This will be a war. And it just might be a war the extremists will win. Establishments have power and money, and it is true that Republican voters have typically, after all the noise, gone in the establishment direction (McCain, Romney). But the insurgents have been advancing the beachhead, and unless they’re pushed back once and for all, it’s only a matter of time. But an epic battle looms. I cry for what these maniacs are doing to my country, but at the same time I plan on enjoying every minute of it.

Read more @

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

sad commentary on US governance-

#1 they draw "lines in the sand" and negotiate from there, seldom works.

#2 they are accountable to a 3rd party-and it ain't the voters, doesn't work.

#3 they suck.

#4 last election cycle we, "the people" re-elected 91% of these dip-$hits. So who's to blame?

#5 With all the gerrymandering that's been done in the states' congressional districts, guaranteeing a winner from a district is based on party affiliation. Therefore the election is determined in the primaries, and these political action committees fund those. How in the world would one explain why over 90% of these yo-yos get re-elected with an approval rating in single digits?

#6 With very low voter participation in the primaries, is it any secret we get the same 'o, same 'o? Hardly. This is where the election actually occurs. With low voter participation, PAC money, low info voters eating up sound bites, all the BS we call an election, this is it. 'Merica-as the world laughs. Greatest nation on the planet? The laughter rises.

#7 As more and more folks are disenfranchised from the mainstream and having a political voice, the trajectory will steepen.

mrd — October 19, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 19, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.

Divisions between the parties and within the parties has been going on since the founding of this country. Differences between fellow democrats O'Neill and President Carter lead to 5 "shutdowns" totaling 57 days.

Overall Congressional approval rating does not effect how individual districts feel about their elected Representative. It never has and most likely never will, what party they belong to doesn't matter.

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Go get em' Bernie!

///This Should Be Fun: Sen. Bernie Sanders Will Be On Budget Conference Committee///

In what can only be seen as good news for people who like traditional earned-benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare, here's one name that appears on the list of Senate conferees in the upcoming Paul Ryan-Patty Murray budget talks -- Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders. This ensures that beneficiaries of these programs will, at the very least, have one strong, supportive voice in the room who won't go down in a squishy heap of "grand bargaining." (I'm sure Paul Ryan is thrilled.)

Here is the statement from Sanders' official website:

Sen. Bernie Sanders was appointed to a Senate and House budget conference committee to create a long-term budget plan by Dec. 13 to avert another government shutdown. A member of the Senate Budget Committee, Sanders said he looks forward to developing an alternative to the stopgap, sequestration-level budget that Congress approved late Wednesday as part of an agreement to reopen the government. “I am excited about being a member of the budget conference committee and I look forward to working with my Democratic and Republican colleagues to end the absurdity of sequestration and to develop a budget which works for all Americans. In my view, it is imperative that this new budget helps us create the millions of jobs we desperately need and does not balance the budget on the backs of working people, the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor,” Sanders said.

The conference committee was assigned to try to reconcile differences between separate budgets passed earlier this year by the Senate and the House.

And those differences are articulated like so:

The Senate budget protects Medicare while the House version would end Medicare as we know it by providing coupons for private health insurance. Unlike the House budget, the Senate resolution does not repeal the Affordable Care Act, which would prevent more than 20 million Americans from getting health insurance. The House version would eliminate grants for up to 1 million college students while the Senate plan protects Pell grants. The House version would kick up to 24 million Americans off of Medicaid while the Senate budget would protect their benefits. The Senate budget calls for new revenue while the House version would provide trillions of dollars in tax breaks mainly for the wealthiest Americans and profitable corporations offset by increased taxes on the middle class.

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:11 p.m.

Do you ever get tired of posting links to propaganda? Do you ever read real news?

frobert — October 19, 2013 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Funny stuff!

///Chimpanzees file unfair hiring claim against county, commissioners///

"If they were going to hire a chimp, shouldn't they have searched for a qualified chimp?"

Two Clark County chimpanzees intend to file a lawsuit against the county, and commissioners David Madore and Tom Mielke, over the two men's decision to bypass county protocol when hiring state Senator Don Benton (R-KFC) as director of environmental services.

Binky and Freckles, two circus-trained chimpanzees who have traveled the world extensively, performing for large audiences in a variety of festive settings, allege in a tort claim filed with the county Thursday that the hiring of Don Benton "violated all written county policy promising equal employment opportunity, non-discrimination, and fairness in hiring."

They are seeking damages of at least $150,000, plus an equivalent amount in bananas and jerky treats.

The chimps, who have lived in Clark County since 1995, state in the claim that the hiring not only violates county policy but also state law and federal law against discrimination.

Specifically, the chimps' claim alleges animal discrimination in the hiring because "If you're going to hire a monkey to do a man's job, wouldn't you want to hire the most qualified monkey? This hiring clearly failed to diligently seek the most qualified primate to perform this job."

When contacted for comment, commissioner and revenge enthusiast Mielke said is "A big fan of Freckles and Binky. It surprises me that they would file this claim. I've hired them to perform at birthday parties and retirement celebrations, so it's very hurtful to me that they would file this suit. It doesn't seem like them."

The other commissioner named in the suit, motion-control enthusiast David Madore, did not return a call for comment because he was using his phone to write a Facebook post condemning the chimpanzees for their destructive, unpatriotic efforts to sully his reputation.

Read more @

nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was looking over the 200 plus comments on the "Unfair hiring complaint names Madore, Mielke" -Environmental services employee seeks more than $300,000-

Who doesn't wish John Laird was still penning for the C. I'd love to hear his take. Maybe he'll bless us with an opinion piece one of these days.


nailingit — October 19, 2013 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 18, 2013 at 10:37 p.m

I couldn't sleep and looked into your huffingtonpost story about the so called "tea party leader" and his gay lawsuit. I can't believe you complain about Fox news commentary being "lies" and than you reprint this garbage masquerading as news.
Rick Scarborough is not and never has been a Republican.
The "tea party group" that he is supposedly the "leader" of is a web page that seems to be designed to bleed money off of legitimate tea party groups. They have no members and no chapters, they do not exist beyond the webpage.

You and other huffingtonpost readers buy this garbage hook line and sinker, it is nothing but lies and propaganda intentionally written to deceive.

Please go to his bio and to the so called tea party site, and research it your self,

frobert — October 20, 2013 at 2:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I am not a tea party member but I saw this article and had to repost this

frobert — October 20, 2013 at 2:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Today, Greg Jayne takes on Madore's penchant for playing the martyr and his superior skills of revising the truth to rile up his dwindling base. Cue the pitchforks and oil torches, as the Madore peasants hunt down all the monsters that Saint David declares is evil.

I do not agree with Jayne, however, that there is still a lot to like about Madore. There is absolutely nothing to like about the man. In fact, we should loathe and distrust him and continue to challenge his pathological arrogance, manipulation and abuse of power. David Madore may be Clark County's greatest liability and its most visible embarrassment.

Madore is going to continue to wreak havoc and damage at tax payer expense and the loss of public trust. He will resign, coward that he is, when he finds a way to spin a high-drama, ceremonious exit to his greatest personal advantage.

Madore's demise and departure cannot come too soon for Clark County's sake.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 10:01 pm yesterday: John Laird sometimes posts to Steve Stuart's FB page. He is still going strong there.

I encouraged him to pen a personal blog, but he kindly rebuffed my well-meaning advice, declaring that he just wants to play with his grandkids and stay away from writing.

Maybe that will change.

BTW, I suggest Greg Jayne get another profile pic. The full front, head-on shot he currently uses makes him look like the human model for Homer Simpson. He deserves a better portrait (he is a pleasant-looking fellow in reality) because the association with Bart's dad is killing his credibility with me.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

I couldn't agree more manthou. Madore is an ideologue who will only get more extreme as time goes on.

Last week Howard Fineman said something that stuck with me and summed up Republican extremism quite well.

He said if the tea party faithful can't change Washington from the inside, then they'll seek to destroy it from the outside. (like the shutdown, debt ceiling etc.)

Madore is in the same vein. No compromise and will do anything back handed to destroy those who oppose him.

It's unfortunate we have to watch this train wreck in the coming years until he's up for reelection.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John Laird-Come out of retirement! (please?:)

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 7:08 a.m.

Thanks for the info about Stuart's page. I'll check it out and take what I can not being a Face Book folk.

Sometimes joining FB is a temptation. Although some of the comments about this latest fiasco are real gems.

And yeah, that pic ain't cuttin' it! :)) Somebody send him some clippers!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: There is a statement in Anita Largent's tort claim notice that warns if there is any retaliation against her or attempts to damage her reputation, the $300,000 settlement fee will increase.

Madore's foolish KOIN interview, where he arrogantly sniffs, "I didn't even know she was interested in the job," and his comparing her to a spark plug inspector, was an attempt to tarnish her through the media. It reveals so much about his attitude. The future deposition, I hope, will be public record and not sealed.

Madore just handed Greg Ferguson a reason to up the ante and he will.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Benton might be able to become a hero if he takes the initiative to resign from his gifted job.

He won't, however, because he is too self-centered and greedy to care about what this is doing to the county and its citizens and employees. That golden paycheck and retirement benefits will not leave his pudgy little fingers easily.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

HC- You nailed it with the dignity thing. Dignity breeds integrity, and unfortunately many in government have neither. Too many just want the $$$ & power. If Benton had any sense of doing the right thing, he would step aside and allow a fair process to take place


That KOIN interview was special & appreciate you posting it. His persona really came through in just a couple of minutes. I can't imagine what it must be like working alongside him. Steve Stuart should get a medal.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ahh yes, typical

Pot/kettle..comes from someone who day after day throws out insults and walks a fine line with slander. Unbelievable..errr maybe not..

ELISI — October 20, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc: I did say that Madore's "spark plug inspector" analogy was deliberately meant to harm Ms. Largent's reputation and demean and diminish her importance. It was payback, too, for the tort claim. Greg Ferguson has a good reason, now, to ask for more money on her behalf. I predict he will.

Here is the other big threat: Ferguson wants to depose Benton, Madore, Mielke, Stuart, Anna Miller (Madore's personal assistant); Barron; Swanson and more under oath.

I think these threatened depositions will reveal that Madore's version of how they "learned" of Benton's interest in the job may be a big, fat lie. The more plausible scenario? Madore, and perhaps Mielke, actually approached Benton on their own with the idea to apply. This Benton hire likely was cooked up behind closed doors between three key players: Benton, Madore, and Mielke. That would be breaking the law. Like Larry Kwarsik, it could result in jail time.

Unless one or all three of these guys are willing to lie under oath in a deposition, we will learn the truth, thanks to Anita Largent's tort claim, through the discovery process possible in the next 58 days.

However, I think Clark County counsel will do everything they can to avoid depositions in the first place because these attorneys know how damaging those depositions will likely be to their defense of this case.

Clark County will settle Anita Largent's claim before any depositions are taken and they will pay her more than $300,000 to make up for Madore's stupid KOIN interview and his FB "apology." This is going to be the quickest settlement in Clark County's history.

My hope? Greg Ferguson and Anita Largent play hardball with the county and force the depositions. What we learn from them will truly promote justice being served through revealing of the truth.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- Had to watch your KOIN vid again. (like deciphering a train wreck)

"No one saw this coming, didn't even know she wanted the job."

This guy leaves a stain wherever he goes.

Sad. How someone can professed a strong belief in Christianity, then pull this nonsense and what goes with it-what a schmuk.

People like him thrive because their own won't hold him accountable. At least he's losing some support.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's been playing the martyrdom game for as long as he's been in politics. Whether he has the sex appeal or charisma to play it as well as other politicians (Palin, Bachmann, Santorum, etc.) remains to be seen. Unfortunately, today's editorial only gives him another opportunity to play his game and the followers.

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Jayne column is tougher than I thought it would be ("screed", "martyr"). Madore's erroneous comment about Hidle leaving the meeting with "his new scoop" is going to keep returning to bite him (Madore, not Hidle) in the behind.

Also, I finally read the actual tort claim. I wouldn't want to mess with Greg Ferguson.

So, any thoughts on possible outcomes? Is Mielke just as culpable as Madore in this? More so? Do either of them end up resigning? Manthou, I think you're right about Benton -- he won't because of greed. And considering Madore's long history about open, transparent, government, I'm curious to watch his behavior in the days and weeks ahead. I suspect he'll continue along the "blame the PA for not letting me talk" path.

pfaffmachine — October 20, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Palin, Bachmann, and Santorum were not really successful with that martyr ploy, either, when you get down to it.

Where are they now?

Yeah. Right.

Madore is on the same trajectory. Clark County still has to suffer some illness as Madore's waste moves through our collective colons.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, I was typing away while you all were posting. Yes, please, Ms. Largent and Mr. Ferguson, force those depositions!

pfaffmachine — October 20, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine: I shared my predictions at 8:23 am.

Madore and Mielke have the biggest targets on their backs. Benton does, too, to a lesser extent, unless it is proven that all three colluded behind closed doors to plan this "surprise" resume sharing and job gift. Then all three go down together, like steerage passengers on the USS Clark County.

BTW, I was impressed with Greg Jayne's strong statements about Madore's behavior today. I just did not agree at all that there is still a lot to like about Madore. That is like handing Madore the whip and saying, "More, more! Make it hurt even worse!"

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mrs. Drift interviewed for a position at U.S. Digital. Her previous employer (of 15 years) had moved the plant to Mexico. During the interview it was stated praying was done at company events and she was asked if that was a problem for her.
I just thought I'd mention it, given an earlier statement I read here.

Roger, around last January I slipped an envelope under the door of the Vancouver V.A. campus V.F.W. I had a clinic appointment that day and stopped in after the probing and prodding. I'd forgotten they aren't (weren't then, anyway) open all five days a week. I'll slip another under there come the beginning of next year. I figure it's the least I can do, given the assistance they gave me. Oh, and by the way, I'm not a veteran of a foriegn war.

Drift — October 20, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: I always thought it would make a great story for a reporter to interview US Digital applicants and former employees.

The current ones are properly controlled.

I am just shocked that a CEO like Madore would not have more knowledge about Federal and state employment laws. Makes me wonder how well US Digital honors them.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another thought: There is a cultish mentality about those who blindly follow or rely on Madore for sustenance (their paycheck).

Does he run US Digital like a cult leader? Reasonable question to ask.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Full Definition of CLASSY

: having or showing class: as
a : elegant, stylish
b : having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior

c : admirably skillful and graceful

again pot meet kettle..

ELISI — October 20, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 8:46 Thanks. And yes, I agree that there's not much to like about Madore. The whole "shake up government" idea is a lot trickier than most people who spout it understand.

As for depositions, Anna Miller's version of events vs. Erik Hidle's? Not too tough of a call. Axel Swanson is no fool, either, IMO.

pfaffmachine — October 20, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning our elected officials and holding their feet to the fire for truth and transparency.

Many citizens do that in a variety of ways.

It is not "classless" to question the actions or what is spoon-fed to us by politicians, Elisi. Some people do that with Steve Stuart, Tim Leavitt and members of the C-Tran board, for instance. More power to them. Some are doing that with Madore and Mielke.

It is responsible citizenship. Persons who don't participate in their free speech rights and FOIA laws are the ones to worry about: Get involved. Ask the hard questions. Publicize the answers or evasions. Vote. And then ask more questions and probe.

I support everyone's right to do this.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I spoke with a right leaning Freeholder candidate yesterday and picked her brain about Madore. (not happy with any of my choices)

It gets pretty old hearing this guy is some sort of genius. Everyone has skill sets in targeted areas. Madore seems to have it in motion control robotics stuff. That said, how he has personally shaped his products himself and not on the backs of others I don't know. His lack of forethought makes me wonder. Maybe it's a reverse Walter White thing.

I question his smarts, not because of his lack of respect for decorum, (speaks to arrogance) but time after time how he embarrasses himself by not grasping procedure, and the inability to navigate the consequence of his actions. (although navigational stupidity might speak to arrogance also) But why continue to be flustered/embarrassed in a public setting I don't know. The times I've viewed various board meetings on CVTV, he usually leaves the rest shaking their heads.

He looks a fool when he pushes his agenda forward.

So yeah, most likely bright in the erector set field, but bone stupid in public relations, let alone the very basics of his job as Commissioner.

No genius here. Just a fairly successful business guy pushing a divisive agenda mired in tea party religious extremism which benefits him personally, as in business tax breaks & no new taxes.

A spark plug changer indeed. (no denigration meant to those who change spark plugs, I do so myself at times, but with no self expectation to alter the course of a good community for personal gain:)

In my opinion.


nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:25 a.m

I am not the one who brought it up. I was pointing out the fact the person does what is accused of others.

My opinion of Mielke and Madore, just 2 more of the same old garbage the people has/have to put up with. Don't like what they do then get off the backside and do something about it, like you did at the meeting. Sitting online complaining does nothing for anyone not even yourself. They say misery loves company.

I don't like either of them nor do I like Benton, but I don't sit on here complaining, about them do I? I do what I can other ways that are more productive than complaining.

ELISI — October 20, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: My question: "Is David Madore a cult leader?" is not without merit and a good one for reasonable, independent and educated persons to ponder.

While he does not show all the traits possible (my disclaimer before I get skewered for suggesting the connection), he displays enough of them to make me wonder.

One of the most prominent to me is his attempt to control persons through public shaming and humiliation.

It may work for him at US Digital. It may work for him at home and at his church. But it is failing for him in government because we have so many checks and balances. His apparent maladaptive and manipulative behaviors do not work so well when there are so many eyes and ears on him, when there are so many laws in place to protect the public. He hates the Press because it dissects his behavior and words under a microscope. He is not used to that. He is used to unquestioning loyalty from friends, family, and employees.

Here is a recent Psychology Today column by Joe Novarro, former FBI Counterintelligence agent, on the traits of dangerous cult leaders. Again, Madore does not have all of them, but he shares enough of them to make me want to push back and question him all the more:

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goood Sunday morning, fellow forum followers. The fog is pretty thick this morning...makes pea soup look watery...8))

The following comments are from my perspective

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.

Ms. Largent won't get $300,000 out of any settlement. Her attorneys will take a sizable chunk of that. Seems we're in agreement on how this case will be handled.


Regarding I-522, I believe it is missing some vital information for the people who have the incentive to watch what it is they're eating, but I will still probably vote yes on the initiative because it increases awareness of the situation regarding GM foods. Besides, there's always revisions which could increase the labeling laws...maybe it will send out a strong message to companies like Monsanto to be more careful in how they treat the food we eat. I also believe farm feed should be labeled for the small farmers (backyard farmers especially) as well.

goldenoldie — October 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

Good question on Madore. You might have hit the nail on the head with that one (my perspective). They all begin somewhere!!!

goldenoldie — October 20, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I finally voted YES on 522. More information about food is usually better than less information about what we eat.

Also, the long list of powerful corporate donors against 522 was enough to push me to the yes column, too.

What are they trying to protect?

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.

Even if the County PA tries to make this go away, Madore's ego won't . I'm sure he will insist on the deposition to try to make himself whole. He will lie thru his teeth.

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

The good news is they are tearing themselves apart from the inside. They can forget about winning the Presidency for many elections to come.

Wait for the all out war when they no longer control the House. Your predictions about urban warfare could come true in certain parts of the country.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Reference @ manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. & holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.

6-9-10-13-17-40-42-[43]-47-49-50 are the ones within doubt. All the others to a "tea". A 78% test passed on the dynamics of a cult leader is a bit scary.

[43] highly probable if not certainly true.

As someone who spent many years living in Vegas, hitting 39 out of 50 and the rest unknown, odds are many of the others are true also. A rigged game ta boot.

(I'd love those odds at the 21 table. :)

Only those personally involved or behind closed doors could attest to the rest.

Thank God for that.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"are the ones within doubt."

Should have read WITHOUT a doubt.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 10:25 am: I never considered that angle. Madore is big on "transparency" but he spins it, so his followers never get the truth. Not that they want it. :)

Madore's wishes will be over-ruled, however, by Clark County counsel (I hate calling them the Prosecuting attorneys as it seems so criminal, rather than civil. Maybe the criminal side of this department will wind up defending Madore in the end).

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 10:31 am: Glad you took the time to factor the statistics. In court for risk prediction tools, 51% and above is the usual cut off score for "more than likely to re-offend."

78% is a slam dunk. :)

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

For those of you with FB, here is a link to an interesting page. I'm a little involved.;=0&total;_comments=39¬if;_t=share_reply

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie; Important to remember Ms. Largent is asking for damages 'in excess of $300,000. Re-reading her claim and the pre-deposition matter-of-public record comments of Madore and Mielke, we should, as taxpayers, be hoping that's all it's going to cost us.
Think subpoenas of phone records, depositions, credibility; then imagine Madore playing smirky face and I'm smarter than you games in front of a jury empowered to access punitive damages, and cross your fingers for a pre-trial settlement as low as $300,000.

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 10:39 am: Way to go, TR! You, Ron Goodman, and William Hahn deserve applause for the push back. You did so respectfully, but assertively.

Hooray for free speech!

JohnK at 10:44 am: I wish this would go to a jury trial (I am gambling our tax dollars away), but Clark County attorneys would never let it get that far for all the reasons you mention. Madore and Mielke will be the most self-incriminating witnesses in Clark County history.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

Should have read WITHIN doubt. AAAAHHHH!! Too much coffee!

holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

Not Jeb imo. The Bush name has such a stain, even Mama says refrain!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Mama say-three bird in the Bush too much! Squawk! (the daughters look great though)

There's a joke there. But seeing how it's Sunday I'll refrain!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou et al,
I see Madore as a simple narcissist. No attempt, no will to give, to understand, to listen. A dude on a personal ego trip.
Why do I also think of Napoleon?
He will implode, and probably it will be very public.

Gold, also yes on I 522. It is very flawed but will draw the attention to the issue nationwide, maybe some people will wake up and start questioning why a pesticide company controls our food.

luvithere — October 20, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's so refreshing to have a President who is as articulate as he is smart. Dubya lacked both, which makes for great comedy now that's he's gone! A virtual treasure trove of material for comedians. A few moments from the letterman show. Garunteed two make u laff!

(I still have a hard time believing this guy was elected once, let alone twice!)

Then next election they put on the Palin/McCain show! Thank you God!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
"yesterday i posted a piece of thedefinition of PHYSOPATH, from scientific american, it fits Mad-onis to a t. Seriously, the same behavior patterns, we just need to find the dead bodies or condemn him legally for the misdeeds."
No, it in no way fits him, He is obviously narcissistic, but most politicians are, to some extent. You disagree with him and I can support that, but to trying to convince people that he has a mental illness that he obviously doesn't, that is just wrong.

frobert — October 20, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.

It displays without FB also.

Well done hawk! There's some wacko's out there for sure. Instead of just Obama being called a Commie, now the right's big talking point is that it's the whole Dem party! Ya gotta love it.

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye --- I've been following you. You're having too much fun at this juncture. Hinton means bonus points for you.

A commissioner of the 5th largest county in the state thinks it is worth his time to be a gatekeeper and respond to your request to play in his sandbox. Loving it. You're in charge.

Here are a couple of links if anyone needs a refresher on Madore's shenanigans before he took office:

langenthal — October 20, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I got this from Debbie Nelson. I wonder who is fronting all the money for this campaign....Hmmmmm

Here's an interesting post I want to share from Jack Burkman, who is running for reelection for Vancouver City Council: For those who have not seen the anonymous cable tv commercial attacking me, you can see it at

Both the statements they make about me are lies.

I do not sit on the C-TRAN board. Three other members of Council are the city representatives.

When I ran in 2009 I did not campaign against tolls. You can see that in the CVTV interview made during that race:

I can’t match their immense, anonymously funded budget. I can ask that everyone share this information so voters have the truth.

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another thought: There is a cultish mentality about those who blindly follow or rely on Madore for sustenance (their paycheck).
Does he run US Digital like a cult leader? Reasonable question to ask.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.

There used to be a very public litmus test to define and to determine a 'cult'. Also, the FBI used to come out with a 'cult' listing, but as many of those same organizations that used to be defined as cults are now defined as 'mainstream', lists only encompass extremes like doomsday or New World Order cults. Even the Krishnas and Moonies not longer are on the list, and the Mormons, Scientologists or snake handling Penticostals haven't been in years tho all are still considered cults outside the US.

We are still surrounded by cults, but the 1st Ammendment allows freedom to belong to one if someone chooses to do so.

Not sure if just being gullible to someone who may charm with words and seem charismatic would define as a cult, even under the wide berth the definition of 'cult' is defined. The whole religious process of upbringing and compliance does not allow for much development of critical thought processing.

jacjak — October 20, 2013 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk eye: I'm sure these are the same people responsible for the new..impossible to read without stopping..campaign signs that went up alongside Mill Plain yesterday. I've got good eyes, but even slowing to a speed that could invite a rear end collision, wasn't able to read the sign other than the word Burkman and tolls.

Gotta love watching those campaigning on a promise of openness and transparency in government not only keeping their identity secret, but now, apparently, their message.

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak and hawkeye -- Are the signs and ads by Vancouver Vitality? According to the PDC, Kanati Falls Ranch loaned them another $40k on 10/14. Ask Advertising (the same company Madore wanted to use for flyers to advertise the wonderfulness that is a fee-free Clark County) is getting a fair amount of business from them. Gosh, I do love the PDC.

pfaffmachine — October 20, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, that should have been addressed to JohnK and hawkeye. Apologies.

pfaffmachine — October 20, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 1:54 I don't know. Most of those on Mill Plain were in high traffic ares and impossible to read without stopping. (a really bad idea) The signs were standard sized with a white background, orange diamond in the middle, and black lettering. They were professionally printed but it's hard to imagine an experienced printer would have let a customer waste their money on these signs. But it wouldn't be the first time a customer with delusions of expertise has overruled the advice of experts.

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.

Simple clinical definition, Both psychopaths and narcissists fall into the category of sociopath. Narcissists are social, psychopaths are antisocial. Politicians are by definition social people, therefore your claim of psychopath has no merit. Your attempt to understand psychology is as futile as your attempts to understand, everything else.

frobert — October 20, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well done Aaron Corvin!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

Holy culttraits, batman!!! Wow, trait #13 sort of leaps out after last week's announcement by Madore that he would be introducing a resolution about public officials' need to apologize for 'breaking faith'. Thought at the time I read that, that the phrase 'breaking faith' was odd.

jacjak — October 20, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. -- "I'm a little involved."

You certainly do know how to get David's attention. I also noted our friend Don Benton in the photo for Wilson's write in campaign against Onslow. Why does that guy hang around here? With the way he looks, he could make millions playing the evil old king in Disney movies.

So, what's the deal with Crain's claim that Onslow voted to support the light rail plan because he owns a building on the route where he "... stands to gain millions from the sale or reconstruction...."? (She also accuses him of being a slum lord.) Anyhow, I did some checking and his family did have a restaurant at 611 Main - right off of the turn on 7th Street. Does he still own that building? If so, his vote is suspect.

roger — October 20, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 20, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.

Not sure who Onslow's family is but the CC GIS site shows Robert Pontius and Gloria Denney own 611 Main. Vancouver business licenses printed in the Columbian shows them owning Boomers Sports Bar & Grill at the same address.

jacjak — October 20, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Even if he did own it, the LR would NOT affect it. It will go up Washington then take a right turn at 7th and Washington over to Broadway then straight up Broadway to 17th. The return route will be 17th to Washington then straight down Washington to the Bridge.

hawkeye — October 20, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I got that from this article; I couldn't tell what year it was written in. (I think 2007, from a line on the growth of Ridgefield.) He does say “The family business is no longer", and notes that the other restaurants he opened later have been sold, but just that the original was closed. What you found suggests Crain is wrong. (Unless maybe he owns another building downtown that isn't addressed in the VBJ article. Guess that one will come out too.)

roger — October 20, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Main is between Washington and Broadway, and that address is just below 7th Street. There's a market on the corner of 7th and Main, another business, and then Boomers. Also some pawn shops and other stuff in the neighborhood. I suspect that if the rail does come through they'll all have to go - not the stuff that the new and improved Vancouver would want to have.

roger — October 20, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 20, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.
Matches my affiliation?
I have never posted anything in support of Madore. I have argued with him on the Facebook side for his liberal, NeoCon and Social Conservative views. I do not belong to the same political party as him. Your contention that our "affiliations" match is as baseless as all your other posts.

The weather is nice today shouldn't you be out on the back of someones bike?

frobert — October 20, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak @ 3:01 PM. I know. I know. The parallels are stunning.

While I realize Madore is no Warren Jeffs...... It somehow explains things, for me, anyway, in the way most of his loyal "followers" respond unquestioningly to his (what I consider) poor and puzzling behavior. It's the kind of stuff that begs to be challenged, but woe be to the person who does.

manthou — October 20, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry i have been gone all day. Very interesting posts from all of you. Onslows family owned a couple of parciles down town town years ago. i know Ron and I don't think he owns any property down town any more. If I am right the last piece he occupied downtown was where El Presidenty mexecan resturant is now. Ron is a good man. I did not agree with his vote on the C-Tran measure. You all need to try to understand what the construction of LTR will do to down town for a lot of business's. Maybe it is time for some of us to go. But after 50 years I don't want to lose what I intended to pass on to my kids. I have to much skin in this fight. And I don't like Madore any more than the rest of you. I am just trying to protect what I have worked for all these years.

timerick — October 20, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

New Gallup poll shows that 58% of Americans favor marijuana legalization. This could be a great opportunity for Republicans, if they would just follow Republican ideals and support ending the Federal war on marijuana. The only problem is that the chances of the Republican party supporting Republican ideals is pretty slim.

frobert — October 22, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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