Open forum, Oct 21-27



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Happy New Week to everyone! Talk about gorgeous weather, fog and all!!!

A few comments here from last week's thread:

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. JohnK, I'll begin with you. (my perspective) I have a feeling the high cost of proving a case prepared for court would rack up quite a legal bill, lowering the amount Ms. Largent would receive in the event of a settlement. If she's not in it for the money lost in her chances for the position, then her principals will definitely shine in this one. I believe she would be setting a precedent...maybe a turning point in reduction or elimination of corruption in least at the local level.

Manthou and Luvithere...good to see you're both voting yes on I-522. I am too. I know it has a bunch of flaws...but the word has to get out there somewhere. A little education on the subject is better than nothing at all.

Hawkeye...did Madore catch you a bit off guard on his facebook page??? You definitely got his attention!

nailingit — October 20, 2013 at 10:48 p.m

Nails...the music sounds like something that should be on the next "Guitar Hero" game...8))

Holylonely...sorry to hear you only ride solo. No lady to hang on to ya?? 8'(

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

GO, no, he didn't catch me off guard. What else could he do? I called him out and he had to allow me access. Doesn't mean I really wanted it. You know what they say about wrestling with a pig, right? His minions didn't seem to like it. I really had a good laugh on that one.

Have a good day, I'm off to work.

hawkeye — October 21, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie @ 6:28: No question the legal costs associated with Ms Largent's lawsuit will come out of the amount she's awarded at trial or through settlement, but that's always the case. Presumably she and her attorney have negotiated a mutually satisfactory contingency fee reflecting their opinion on the strength of her case.

Again, Ms. Largent is asking for damages 'in excess of $300,000.' Given the egregious nature of the offense coupled with the incriminating nature of publicly available statements and records, I suspect Clark County taxpayers will be on the hook for a considerably higher amount. (think of the non-specified punitive damages) I wouldn't be surprised if the County doesn't end up eating her legal fees.

And Mr. Madore's foolish statement to the contrary, the legal fees necessary to defend his, and Mr. Mielke's actions, will cost County taxpayers a bundle.

PS: I too voted yes on 522. I think the initiative was flawed. poorly drafted, and unlikely to pass, but hope enough 'yes' votes will encourage another try.

JohnK — October 21, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

After reading more on I-522 I voted Yes. If this passes, my hope is they will add more food items to the list, even pet foods.

Over the weekend Comcast posted an AP article on the effects of Monsanto's chemical use in Africa and they found that illness and diseases such as cancer and birth defects are a much higher rate than ever before. True Africa isn't as regulated in the use of chemicals like we are, but still, in the last ten yrs rates in Africa has skyrocketed, tells me something.

When in doubt, buy certified organic..

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"True Africa isn't as regulated in the use of chemicals like we are, but still, in the last ten yrs rates in Africa has skyrocketed, tells me something."

tells me, in the absence of strict government regulation and enforcement, America Inc. will do most anything to maximize profits-even kill people.

mrd — October 21, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd: "tells me, in the absence of strict government regulation and enforcement, America Inc. will do most anything to maximize profits-even kill people."

Ya think?

Drift — October 21, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.

Not trying to cause a stir this morning and truly hope I don't. Just trying to get a few facts straight.

Do you have a mainstream source for this? Last week someone sourced naturalnews when trying to make a point. NaturalNews is directly hooked up with Alex Jones/InfoWars conspiracy crowd and head dude sits in for Jones on occasion! I'm honestly tying to sort this GMO stuff out. It seems to me there would be plenty of science based evidence by now if indeed GMO's were directly linked to cancer. But I'm not finding it.

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 21, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.

I've always respected your take on many things, to include the bennies of marijuana. I checked out your source and some red flags came up. Do you have further sources for this? I'm finding a lot of alternative medicine sites use data that is less than credible. (many when it comes to the GMO stuff) Thanks. (btw I'm not sure if Quackwatch is great, but seems to be credible. Trying to differentiate between the hens watching the henhouse as opposed to wolves can be a full time job)

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Statewide Advisory Votes 1-6

I am cutting-and-pasting The Stranger's take on these Tim Eyman advisory votes, because I think its perspective is worth considering. I knew very little of their background.

I have cleaned up the language, but I do enjoy The Stranger's Voter's Guide. It is interesting reading, at the least:

Advisory Votes No. 3, No. 4, No. 5, No. 6, and No. 7


What a stupid ****ing waste of time. These measures are the zombified corpses of another Eyman initiative, which required a two-thirds majority of the legislature for any tax increases. That initiative was struck down in court as unconstitutional, but the part of the law requiring a nonbinding "advisory vote" every time the legislature passes a tax increase, or even closes a tax loophole, stumbles on. That's what these are: nonbinding advisory votes. They're totally meaningless. But they're compelling reading! Take, for example, No. 5: "The legislature extended, without a vote of the people, the insurance premium tax to some insurance for pediatric oral services, costing an amount that cannot currently be estimated, for government spending." Then you're asked if this law should be repealed or maintained. But even if "repealed" takes 100 percent of the vote... the law will be maintained. Don't give Eyman the satisfaction of sending an antitax message. On all of them, vote "Maintained." And f*** Tim Eyman.

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I recalled the Bayer deal from something I was looking into a while back. Admittedly, nails, I jumped on the first link I came across. I really haven't a clue who the heck Mercola is. Here's something from CBS:

An article about Argentines linking pesticides and health issues is in today's Columbo (AP article):

Drift — October 21, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Here's another guide that echoes The Stranger:

langenthal — October 21, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 21, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.

I agree with you. Jobs are on the line and they'll stop at nothing to keep the price down.

Regarding I-522..again, I agree with you. It is flawed but we do need to bring notice to the people who are playing a dangerous game in the world of GM foods that not everyone will put up with it and the best tool we have right now other than just not buying GM products is by elections. This one is bringing out the attention of other states. (and again, this is just my perspective)

holycrapola — October 21, 2013 at 7:10 a.m.

holybikerboy...good thing you clarified yourself...8)) Regarding the possibility of meritocracy...isn't that how it should be in the first place??? There's too many opportunistic people in the world who are getting job positions EVERYWHERE, not because of their qualifications but because of WHO THEY KNOW (my perspective). I don't think it would work. It's a good thought, but try to make it mandatory and see what it gets you.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI...looks like there's quite a few of us who are voting YES on I-522. It'll be close...unless we're more of an everGREEN state than we're giving it credit for!!!

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Can anybody tell me again the importance of advisory votes??? I'm confused how an advisory vote for a toll-free I-5 Bridge is important, given recent circumstances. Haven't they already turned over control of that to Oregon???

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:49 a.m

Sorry, I read it on Comcast news...the article was an AP one.
Wasn't about GMO mainly but about the chemicals Monsanto sells for use in Africa.
If Monsanto willingly sells these chemicals to them without teaching of the hazards, what are they doing to us with GMO seed grown foods? I have looked and couldn't find the article. Maybe these will help.

This first site tells how Du Pont is now involved with Monsanto..

These might give you more insite on GMO..

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 21, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

The company that brought us heroin and Zycklon B, isn't ethical? I am shocked.

frobert — October 21, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldenoldie, all 3 of us are voting yes on 522. Most of my neighbors are too.

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 21, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

Thanks Drift. I'm having a helluva time researching stuff today. The guy that penned the Moneywatch article, Jim Edwards, is like a ghost when I do a search. And when I check into 'Doctors of Fumigated Towns', the source of the Columbian article, (also printed in NPR-Washington Post-other credible pubs) I can't even find a website for it, let alone further information. Maybe my search engine has been infected with GMO seed! :)

I'll take the Argentine and Bayer articles on their faces unless I find something refutable, as these are by and large credible publications.

Horrible story with the Bayer thing. The lawsuit settlements that I could source don't nearly seem high enough. These folks should have been brought to their knees and then some for this unconscionable act. Inexcusable. This type of event, starting wars, occupying countries, drones killing innocents, anti-science folk etc. etc., can't imagine why so many in the world take a dim view of America.

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 10:43 a.m.

Thanks for the info ELISI. I sourced a few of those before my inquiry. I try not to waste anyone's time when asking something like this.

I still don't see a direct link to GMO seed & cancer. I have noticed a lot of fear mongering sites such as naturalnews which I referenced earlier. I love corn, both on the cob and out. I hope butter & salt provide a suitable armor of protection. :)

What's your take on this?

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: My take on the advisory votes? They will be used and misused, interpreted and misinterpreted depending upon the political viewpoint.

The results will be hauled out, time and again, as "proof" of what the voters want. Therefore, rather than voting no on all Clark County transportation advisory votes (as many folks and newspapers are suggesting), impotent though they are, you might as well choose your favorite crossing option and vote YES on that.

Madore is hoping that the East bridge option gets the most votes, for example, so he can beat everyone over the head with that ad nauseam, even though a third bridge is never going to be built in our lifetime.

If the i-5 bridge option gets the most votes, Jim Moeller will be tooting that horn. The westside bridge option? It will send Sharon Nasset into orgasmic ecstasy and we will suffer her gloating testimony until we die.

So pick your poison and enjoy the political shows that will surely follow. :)

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Local housing market (I watch it regularly): There is absolutely nothing for sale in the five downtown neighborhoods that is truly affordable right now. One is actually nearly $620,000. Very beautiful, but, I am shocked.

If you own a home in Hough, Arnada, Shumway, Carter Park, or Lincoln and are thinking of selling, now might be a good time. :)

I am also interested in the article today in the C that mentions 6 government agencies meeting to suggest that a 30 percent downpayment be the norm for mortgages if you want to get the best rates.

That will kill the house market right there.

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don Benton wrote me back this morning!

I wrote this to him last week:

Mr. Benton,
I respectfully urge you to resign.
In May, I asked you to decline the position offered to you by your friends, Mr. Madore and Mr. Mielke. It would have been the right thing to do. I cannot believe that someone of your political savvy did not understand that Federal laws were violated when this important position was not advertised and others given an equal opportunity to apply.

Thank you for your public service. You can be the hero in this. Resign now.



Here is his reply:


Resigning would be capitulating to partisan pressure and the cowardly thing to do. When Lynn Peterson, Governor Inslee’s appointment to head the Department of Transportation resigns, then I will actually consider it myself. I am certainly more qualified for the job than my predecessor was. I suggest you quit reading the Columbian and actually look into the facts. There were no federal laws broken here, or even county laws. Elections have consequences. I know it is so hard to understand that Democrats are now in the minority here at the county and the commissioners, through their appointments, are making significant changes in the County culture. This is what the majority of the citizens asked for. As I have explained in previous emails, , representative democracy works this way in America. Perhaps it won’t hurt to point it out one more time. Presidents, Governors, Mayors and yes, even County Commissions appoint their own department heads to carry out the will of the electorate. That is the way it has worked for over 200 years. No one complained when Betty Sue Morris, Steve Stuart and Craig Pridemore appointed their own Department heads….but all of a sudden it is a problem when Madore and Mielke do it?? At least be honest and call this whole thing what it what it really is, a partisan whining session about losing the majority.

We are doing incredible work here at the Department of Environmental Services (for less money than was budgeted) and I plan to continue doing that work as long as the Commissioners want me to. I won’t spend anymore county time addressing this issue but if you have any other suggestions that may be helpful to our mission of protecting the environment, please feel free to email or call me anytime.



Don Benton

Director, Environmental Services Department

360-397-2121 extension 5358


He suggests I quit reading The Columbian. Why does he assume this? :)

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 11:36 a.m

I'll check out your site later, have a few errands I have to do first.

Try MotherJones and google GMO, organic vs GMO there are thousands of site for and against.

The article I read yesterday was more about the chemicals used in Africa like in Argentina.
The trouble I have about GMO foods grown from GMO seeds is the fact they are treated with Round Up pesticide.
Grab a container of Round Up, check the ingredient list, then check out the names of the ingredients.

Got to run or I'll be late.

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — 12:27 p.m: At least you got a reply, and with the condescending attitude, false comparisons, and factual errors, it's a sure bet he wrote it himself. I particularly loved his claim to be more qualified than his predecessor.

JohnK — October 21, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Thanks for sharing. We need to keep them talking/writing.
Rules, we don't need no stinkin' rules.

"... commissioners, through their appointments, are making significant changes in the County culture. This is what the majority of the citizens asked for. As I have explained in previous emails, , representative democracy works this way in America."

"Presidents, Governors, Mayors and yes, even County Commissions appoint their own department heads to carry out the will of the electorate. That is the way it has worked for over 200 years."

langenthal — October 21, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Our house is up for sale Lincoln NH. Under 300K... Personilzed landscape done by myself... 1800 SQ FT.. Detached shop... Brick house...Hardwood floors upstairs and carpet downstairs...Anyone interested just send me a note..As for Benton. he is pretty spot on with his comments. Nice to see him/you make them public. The commisioners work is very much appreciated in the County Building Department, as is Madore. They think he is doing a good job... Wether you like his face or speech he seems to be doing a good job for the county. In regards to the lawsuit I wish the comissioners would just shut up and go through the process and let it play out...

vanwadreamer — October 21, 2013 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That just in from someone who is a Dept Head in the Bldg dept.. We don't go into much detail other than a couple current large projects...As far as baseless, I guess the persons words can be whatever "you" want to make of them". My source is very happy and genuinely honest with opinions. I don't know you so I don't trust you. This person is very trustworthy...The department currently is very busy with a full workload on it's plate. Kinda like Meat and Potatoe plates.. With a little mash taters on the side. Overtime to make it all...

vanwadreamer — October 21, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 21, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Holyfoghorn, there's two teeeeny tiny flaws in your comment (from my perspective). You suggest everyone who works in Oregon move to Portland and abandon Vancouver. Do you know what that would mean in the way of competition for housing needs in Portland? Do you know what that would mean regarding the cost of living? have shared with me on numerous occasions to come on over to Portland to see certain venues. Tell me how I could take light rail directly to...let's say...the Alberta Street Fair...or the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Festival...or how 'bout a direct trip to a relative's house in King City. If you could sell me a direct line to King City from might have my attention regarding moving back to Orygun. Otherwise...I'm not about to take 6 bus transfers and two light rail trips. My point??? MAX is very limited. Portland is too crowded. It's not for everyone. Till Vancouver gets more jobs flowing in...we can do without a new bridge and light rail into Vancouver where it would be even more limited...just to Clark College.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

btw, holyfoghorn...

My avid supporter of light rail who has tried to convince me for years to no avail...was ready to sell his home and move to Portland. He saw how limited the service is. He's decided that Seattle has a much better transit system than what Portland has to offer.

Also...taking a look at what is happening with BART in San Francisco...

That could be Portland in that 10-20 years, too.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.

No web links on GMO's, just my own opinion....

Many organisms are already genetically modified. Does their nucleus remain true when altered? Who knows? But, when splicing a DNA strand with Round Up to control weeds in a farmers field to save that farmer time and money is not acceptable for me... I can not wash it off before ingesting it. That's how I look at it. Are weeds already becoming resistant to it? Will there be stronger bug killers spliced into the global food chain to counter their evolution? And will the weeds also mutate to tolerate that, too? Where will it end?? The Staph virus did the same thing, circumventing the ever stronger mechanisms intended to control it.

So, eat the modified corn, we probably already do, but they will at least have to let you know if it has Round Up build right into it. This is about Labeling, not about long range consequences, or even the 'start early' countermeasures. Label it, and if someone dows not want to read the label, then fine. But why deny someone else that option? It can not be cost because labels are changed all the time. Farming techniques are fairly straightforward... if they are already using spliced seeds they may find the market for the product altered somewhat, as will those farmers whose crops are Round Up free... those products may actually become for in demand.

Not all of us drink soda or eat Kraft or Kelloggs products, but when we do it'd be nice to know exactly what's in them.

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Like I said anyone that does not agree with or side on your opine is not worthy. I have lived here since 1979. Very connected and see the Cougar differently than you. Currently your opined are in the Minority. You Rail against all R.. You have thousands of takes of which most are so over the top. YOU could only get a few minutes in front of the Commissioners before they sweep your idealism away.. There already two steps ahead but you continue to call them stupid.. Nobody in leadership positions use that term only the ignorant. You can't argue a good fight with domineering like you. You are glued into one Fabric. When you start to open up then we will be able to discuss.. You might as well bring a grenade pen everytime you pen something here..

vanwadreamer — October 21, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 21, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.


Not everyone has the capabilities to ride a bike. If you can part the waters...if you can perform a miracle on a hip that was crushed by a 5-ton pickup sitting on...then maybe the bicycle idea for me would work. Otherwise, you're full of sheep dip.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.

I'm not sure if you realize the difference between GM foods...produced in a laboratory and naturally-occurring genetic changes in food. It's the ones in the labs you have to watch out for. Regarding the GM corn...there is some out there that isn't. It's called heritage or heirloom corn. The problem behind avoidance of GM products is the cost and we all know who was able to drive THEIR costs down in order to make heritage/heirloom vegetables and fruit outrageously expensive.

I'd suggest avoidance of ALL GM foods if possible.

And yes, this is from MY perspective.

For those who are curious, here's a Mother Earth News article which explains the difference:

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oopsie...I meant to say "For those who are curious about hybridization versus GM...."

Sorry about that, jacjak.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 21, 2013 at 6:07 p.m.

Holynutballs...I'd rather avoid Po'land than ride anything TriMet. You couldn't give me a straight answer on MAX routes only because there ARE no direct routes to venues I'm interested in. I told you, I will not take several transfers in order to get to my destination. Suggesting a bicycle to someone you had no clue as to their health concerns...suggesting a "granny electric mobile" displays ignorance recognizable in your thought processes. You have failed in your feeble attempts to convince me. I am not the only one who realizes just how dysfunctional MAX... or anything TriMet for that matter really is. Yes, it's somewhat convenient for folks like Manthou who like to go to Hillsboro (except when the line is blocked by an MVA such as today in Hillsboro...delaying MAX commuters on the Blue Line...) or for Blazer fans going to the Moda Center, but not everybody does what they do. MAX is too limited and is dysfunctional...plain and simple, holynutballs. It doesn't get you everywhere. The costs and time for construction of light rail lines versus the end result are outrageously out of sync and are not good for the environment. Maybe you think destruction of land for rights of way concrete and brick isn't a hit against the environment, but I do. Maybe you think all those overhead electric lines are making their own energy, but we all know that's one of the main reasons behind the BPA expansion of power lines...and you know who will be hit with the increased costs of energy AND the increased use of wind generators, hydroelectric dams and coal-fired plants. You are stuck in the mindset that this is the only answer and it is not.

And yes, this is from MY perspective.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And holynutballs...There are several cities in Washington State which have a better selection of entertainment which far exceeds Po'land's little rinky dink venues. I'd rather spend my time in Warshington(sic) than cross the river. For added entertainment, all it takes is crossing the border into another country (Canada - have you seen the list of entertainment venues there???)...something you can't do from Orygun...nyuk nyuk.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

The Stranger is as anti-corporate America, anti-Republican, and anti- whatever else as they come. The only reason they rank above the Mercury is --- Well, actually they don't.

These advisory votes may not accomplish much - so what? They do get the public to see what the legislature is taxing, and whether we agree. The cost should be minimal - a few pages in the pamphlet following a set format - anything more than that buck two ninety eight means someone is milking the process. There are no pro and con arguments or anything. In fact, as near as I can see, the only real cost is from the Office of Financial Management calculating what the bill will raise in taxes if enacted. I would strongly hope that this is done for the Legislature, to use in determining the impact of passing the bill in the first place.

Your source conveniently uses the only one of the five presented that doesn't have the amount that will be raised attached to it. That just means OFM couldn't come up with a figure; if anything, it should lead to wondering why the Legislature passed something without knowing the impact. Your source is also disingenuous in calling for that vote to Maintain - The intent (after quickly scanning the source) is to support taxing businesses and the rich. If that source were truly wanting to address the ridiculousness of this requirement, then the call should be to not vote on any of them.

Having said this, I will be voting to Maintain on 3, 4, 5 and 7. I will vote to Repeal on 6. This one raises taxes on "certain" telephone and telecomm services. I've no idea which ones, but that's money they're taking from us, to the estimated tune of nearly $400,000,000.00 over ten years. To me, phones and the internet are necessities; taxing them takes advantage of this.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 21, 2013 at 6:34 p.m.

You're still avoiding the issue, holywhackadoodle.

Definition of commute(n) "A regular journey of some distance to and from one's place of work."

You forget that a place of work is at home for many in essence, anytime I leave my home, I'm leaving from my place of work. Some of the commuters travel to Portland for their work. I know of one person who makes regular trips from their home in Seattle in order to invest in products they need for their business that are only found in Portland. I'm sure there's many more. How do the people who estimated the traffic flow know if the drivers were going to work, to play, to purchase or just passing through? They don't, holywhackadoodle...and neither do you.


Try again.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Holywhackadoodle, I've already adapted to the changes I needed to and TriMet/MAX isn't included.

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 21, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.

Well, after reading your source, I think I'll change my vote on 6 to Maintain. They actually explained the details, rather than just engaging in an anti-Eyman rant. Basically, what the bill did was impose the same tax on cell users as exists on land line users. They also explained what the money gets used for - to help provide a necessary service to the poor.

The rest of my argument stands.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 21, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.,

With both Wheeler and Courtney dragging heels on the go it alone plan, and with Courtney saying no special session for the CRC, that pushes any decision back to the start of the next regular session in February (unless Kitz is feeling froggy enough to run with his AG's recommendation that no further legislative action is required, that is).

The CRC is not dead - just pushed to the future.

These advisory votes give us a chance to say what we want - something that hasn't been provided to date. Is this in itself useful? Depends on what comes of the vote and who is looking at the results.

The first two are for LRT and BRT - yes or no. Who cares that this is advisory for County Commissioners? This will be the first time since 1994 that we've been able to say what we want in these areas. If the vote is Yes, it sends a clear message that we want our say before these systems are brought into being. If the vote is No, well --- that's a pretty clear invitation to the governments involved to do whatever they want.

The three for the bridges are worthless at the County level, but could send a message as to whether the majority would rather pursue fixing the I5 bridge or building another one.

The fireworks one is something of a joke. I believe every municipality sets its own rules, so this just applies to we in the unincorporated area. The couple of sheriffs on duty will do nothing to stop people from blowing off all that stuff they buy off The Res every year. Curtailing legal sales may cut down on the use, but out here in Bubbaland we be some crazy mofos who like things that go boom. (Except for me and my cats, and a few other strange types who have a problem with good ol' Mericans havin' fun.)

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Did not mean to offend you with The Stranger post, just brought it to everyone's attention because so many people see the word "tax" and shut down. The voter's pamphlet explanations were not adequate on these statewide advisory measures, in my opinion. Langenthal, as usual, added a valuable resource to the discussion. :)

For me, anything Eyman is often ill-conceived and legally weak. I just cannot see much value in them beyond his own ego-needs.

There is a lot of that going on right now.

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.

30% down may be steep, but once upon a time it was recommended to have 20% down. And to some extent that's already in practice - People using the 0 down option with their VA loan have anywhere from 1/2 to 1% higher interest rates on their loan than if having a down payment.

Where we've got a potential for a big problem is that the Administration is trying to get banks to once again make housing loans to those who normally wouldn't qualify. They're saying to impose a better screening process (review rent and bill payment history, and other factors that indicate credit worthiness), but this is still a pretty shaky way to try to revive the economy. Companies are still laying people off as part of downsizing, and we won't know the true impact of the ACA on employment for a couple more years.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Offend? Never. There are some out there who believe the paper that runs our forum is a poor news source. It's all perspective. That was my opinion being voiced. I've got zillions of them, and will share them in a heartbeat. (I suspect if you'd have sourced FOX, it would have taken more than about 10 hours to hear back on this topic.)

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Less than, that is.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just got done with the 'maintain' or 'reject' discussion at our house too. The wording is (intentionally) convoluted, imo. Finally went to the State of Wa site that shows where each bill's summary gives more information. Also checked to see how our local politicians voted... Harris, Benton, Stonier, etc. Sure looks to me like the bills were about closing tax loopholes that some seem to want opened up again. I voted Maintain on all 5.

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I suspect the crowd writing All Politics would love to have you share your letter from Benton with them.

As I recall, Gray had an Engineering background earned at the USMA and practiced in the Army. It may have not been environmental, but anyone involved with government engineering projects know this is always factored into every project.

And the comment about representative democracy will have people posting for days.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I had the same problem last year, when 1 and 2 were put to us. They explain the process, but for some reason we have to do our homework to know how to respond. I picked up on the same as you - that this was to close loopholes exempting some from business taxes - but would have missed the mark on 6 entirely if I hadn't read the source langenthal posted. They do need to clean this up a little.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I voted NO on 522. I'd rather see a nationwide labeling program. This one seemed disjointed and broken before it happened. Maybe they can come up with something better next time.

Also, there is no such thing as "natural" corn. It doesn't naturally occur in nature.

hawkeye — October 21, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.

If your main concern is the pesticides, wouldn't buying organic foodstuffs deal with that?

There's so much that's GMO'd already. We've been getting poisoned for years. Sugar is added to everything - would it be a stretch to tie this to things like ADHD, obesity, autism, and who knows what else? Various substitute sweeteners and food colorings used for years were eventually proved to be carcinogens and withdrawn. Preservatives, MSG, etc -

Once upon a time I was a smoker. I noticed that over the years the taste became less enjoyable, but it wasn't until I was in Germany and had a ready source of Dunhills and Players that I saw the difference in quality. The tobacconist told me to read up on what we put in our US cigarettes, and I was a bit shocked.

Unchecked Capitalism is a wonderful thing.

roger — October 21, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.

Thanks for the info/opinion jacjak. I was thinking yes already. The more consumer info the better.

At least we can see what's in a jelly doughnut>or a bavarian creme>ooooh doughnuts!

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and manthou --- Rice confirmed that she read the Benton letter here today.

from Clark County Citizens for Good Governance Ron Goodman

Someone challenged me on The Columbian: How did Kevin Gray get the job, wasn't he appointed just like Benton? No, he wasn't; Kevin Gray, predecessor as Director of Environmental Services, rose to the top from a selection pool of 107 candidates, including two out-of-state finalists, through the normal county hiring process:

Kevin Gray, a West Point graduate in Management and Engineering, and licensed Professional Engineer in Washington since 1995, spent 16 years as Vancouver Engineering Services Manager, Clark County Engineering Programs Manager, and Clark County Deputy Director of Public Works, before being elevated by County Administrator Bill Barron to Director of the new Environmental Services Department created from programs Gray had been managing as Deputy Director of Public Works. Both County Commissioners' Rules of Practice and County Administrator's contract provide that the County Administrator appoints all department heads

langenthal — October 21, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

These two slimeballs are at it again. They are the richest people in America (inherited daddy's fortune) whose goal is to create a complete American corporatocracy. They stick lower middle class sycophants on paid bus tours and buy them T-shirts in exchange for yelling and carrying signs at political gatherings, while lining tea party politico pockets with dark money.

Main stream media needs to pick up on these guys.

///Koch brothers eye states, not Congress, for health care goals///

AFP’s president boasted about his group’s “trench warfare” against the health care law, which in this case means pushing Virginia to reject Medicaid expansion, which in turn would keep 400,000 Virginians from having access to basic care.

In other words, the Kochs can tell Congress about their indifference to the Republican “defund” strategy, perhaps because they considered it a poor plan, but also because the conservative billionaires can focus their energies on state capitols, where it’s easier to stop struggling families from having health care coverage.

Sure, it’ll undermine families’ needs, the commonwealth’s finances, and the budgets of state hospitals, but for the Koch brothers, that’s apparently a small price to pay for advancing their anti-healthcare agenda.

The fight is not limited to Virginia – Stolberg’s report added that the Kochs have also invested in similar campaigns in Arkansas, Florida, Ohio, Louisiana, Michigan, and Pennsylvania – though the fight in this Southern swing state is going to be one to watch. State Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (R), for example, hopes to block Medicaid expansion in Virginia, and has made it part of his gubernatorial platform. He sent out a fundraising appeal over the weekend, saying, “With less than three weeks left until Virginia’s Election Day, I need your support more than ever. Will you chip in today to help support my fight against Obamacare?”

What’s more, Virginia Tea Party groups are organizing around a hearing today of the Medicaid Innovation and Reform Commission. One of the Republican witnesses? Devon Herrick of the National Center for Policy Analysis, which is financed by – you guessed it – the Koch brothers.

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Stephanie Rice, and maybe others, have a standing FOIA request for all CC Commission and Vancouver City Council emails.

She contacted me a couple of years ago with questions when one of mine caught her eye. I imagine the reporters are mining all emails deeply now. They will see it.

What amazes me is that the CC attorneys have not impressed upon Benton to button his lips and lock his keyboard. Shows you the depth of ego that allows him to make such assertions to me with such certainty with a tort claim so new. Achilles heel (thyself).

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: We are really dealing with narcissism cubed here (M, M, and B). I am stunned that they keep revealing their thinking errors, unaware of what it reveals about them!

Madore I understand: he has lived in a protected alternate-reality world, one of his own making, for years. What works for him at US Digital, because he is the Supreme Ruler and passes and enforces all the laws there, is failing in the real world of government. He needs to adjust his behavior and expectations or else he will continue to get into trouble.

But Mielke and Benton have been around politics most of their lives.

Where does their absolute certainty of being right come from? Are they emboldened because they have each other? The rules no longer apply to them?

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We made the HuffPo. Article also goes into a Mexican Monsanto Ban.

///Huge GMO News///

But perhaps the biggest bombshell of all is now unfolding in Washington state. The mail-in ballot state's voters are already weighing in on Initiative 522, which would mandate the labeling of genetically modified organisms (GMOs). Knowing full well that 93 percent of the American public supports GMO labeling, and that if one state passes it, many others are likely to follow, entrenched agribusiness interests are pulling out all the stops to try to squelch yet another state labeling effort.

This time, however, things aren't going quite as planned. On Wednesday, Washington state Attorney General Bob Feguson filed a lawsuit against the Grocery Manufacturers Association (GMA). The GMA, a lobby for the junk food industry, has been by far the largest donor to efforts to defeat the labeling initiative. The lawsuit alleges that the GMA illegally collected and spent more than $7 million while shielding the identity of its contributors.

The source of the money has now been exposed, and it turns out to be Pepsico, Coca-Cola, NestleUSA, General Mills and a few other junk food companies. The lawsuit reveals that GMA leadership held a series of secret meetings to plot how to perpetrate a money laundering scheme and illegally hide member donations from Washington state voters, in direct violation of campaign disclosure laws.

Read more @

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 21, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.

A revealing letter manthou. Arrogance personified.

"I won’t spend anymore county time addressing this issue..." (translation; I wanna beat the crowd to Billygans)

"I suggest you quit reading the Columbian and actually look into the facts."

Being somewhat new to the area, (don't know if that makes a difference about this) I've never understood this hate relationship RW extremists (moderates and lefty's seem not to have) generate towards the Columbian. Every paper has issues certain groups disagree with, but man, there is a visceral RW hate towards a paper who outwardly endorsed a Romney/Ryan ticket in one of the biggest issue elections of our time. Weird. Just a case of wanting it "my way" every time on every issue? I don't agree with quite a bit of C opinion, but I don't trash my local paper on an hourly basis!

And the other thing I'm not getting, and most likely because I'm haven't been here for that long, is this hate/disrespect people (again seems to lean far right) in our town have towards Portland, and Oregon in general. I understand sports/business rivalries to some degree, but again, man, it's really ramped up here.

What gives???

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///State agencies recommend reining in medical pot///

Time to go the way of Uruguay-(there's a song there!)


nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 11:36 a.m

nailingit, hmm I think that article is about 50/50.
Remember a few months ago there was a lot of noise being made by Monsanto over a farmer in eastern Or. over a field of wheat where GMO contaminated the field.
If I remember correct, the farmer had to destroy the field of wheat that tested for GMO.
Monsanto claims they have no idea how it got there then claimed sabotage. Now if were sabotage, why did the farmer take the plants to I think OHSU for testing? Most of those wheat field in eastern Wa and Or ship to Asian countries as well as some European. Why would a farmer jeopardize his crops and paycheck?

ELISI — October 21, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Why would a farmer jeopardize his crops and paycheck?"

I don't know ELISI. Most things are about money. Deep pockets can farm out about anybody. What I do know, is the more I look into this, the more convoluted it becomes.

I would like to eat my corn-on-the-cob without washing it down with a shot of Round Up.

I suppose the next thing they'll tell us is Mickey D's is bad for us!

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 21, 2013 at 8:20 p.m.

Yes, it's the spliced-in pesticide gene. GMO foods are already here, good or bad, and those genes have already been manipulated to cause a certain chain of events in it's host. They cause fish to grow faster, corn to grow straight rows on each ear, rice grains to be plumper, etc. Don't think that genie will get back into the bottle any time soon. But weed killer in the nucleus of the seed seems like something more from Pandora's Box than from A Thousand and One Nights. Monsanto is calling their product 'natural' but something that kills weeds, natural or not, is still a killer. Fairly sure their 'natural' product is not made from hot pepper juice, or something. Putting something INSIDE the seed that kills other living organisms, but is intended for us to eat seems to be dangerous and irresponsible. imo. Whose to say what happens 2 or 3 generations down the road with eating the dna gene of a weedkiller. Perhaps that's too elementry a way of viewing it, with no intention or desire of becoming an expert on the subject, but EWG has been tracking this for ages and can't fault their POV.

I'm sure there's probably organic cereal makers and chocolate, juice, and pasta makers, but labeling already covers calorie, nutritional values, etc. Adding one more bit of information seems just more of the same. So why the huge push to have a shopper NOT know? What is causing all the allergies to peanuts and wheat in the last few years? Or the rise in autism or OCD? No idea if these things relate to how we grow and process foods, but food borne illnesses are already making us sick and even killing us. The option of labeling giving as much information as possible allows that much more transparency between the consumer and those we trust to produce healthy foods.

jacjak — October 21, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 20, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. & pfaffmachine @ 1:54

pfaffmachine @ 1:54 I don't know. Most of those on Mill Plain were in high traffic ares and impossible to read without stopping. (a really bad idea) The signs were standard sized with a white background, orange diamond in the middle, and black lettering. They were professionally printed but it's hard to imagine an experienced printer would have let a customer waste their money on these signs. But it wouldn't be the first time a customer with delusions of expertise has overruled the advice of experts.

I don't know if you guys saw this, but it provides the answer. Really creative-Not!

///Republicans’ lack of creativity on display///

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 10:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It would probably be easier to just assume that any vegetable or fruit you buy in a supermarket includes some GMO'd component. From what I've read, most major operations use these, and have for some time. I'm wondering if you can even find seeds for some crops that are free from this - growing your own would probably be the surest option to avoid them.

And even with mandatory labeling, we'd probably be subjected to a fudge factor.

roger — October 22, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 10:43: Thanks. Had to laugh at the list of characters defending the unreadable content by claiming artistic/creative license.

JohnK — October 22, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak @ 10:09 pm: I might add this to your good list of food-based illnesses/allergies: auto-immune disease. It is on the rise. Why? Some researchers point to additives/chemicals/alterations in our food supply.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 21, 2013 at 7:20 p.m.

Thank you, roger. With an explanation such as yours, it only makes sense to formally address our leadership, letting them know what we support and do not support through the advisory votes.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 21, 2013 at 7:56 p.m.

You are right. There is no such thing as "natural" corn (except maybe broom corn...I'd have to look into that one, though), but there is hybridized corn which is mighty tasty! The misnomer..."natural" is a marketing strategy geared to make people think what they're eating is healthier when in fact, all it means is it was grown from the earth. According to the FDA, it could still be processed AND could contain other additives.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 22, 2013 at 5:36 a.m.

Check out New Season's. They have a HUGE selection of certified non-GMO products. I know Whole Foods does as well.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On the GMO thing. A product that's advertised GMO free is Dave's Killer Bread. Simply some of the best tasting bread ever imo. (great toasted with morning coffee-or anytime-(no dog in the hunt) The Blues Bread is a household fave, but they all rock.

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 22, 2013 at 7:10 a.m.

Holybollockbrain...if you haven't realized yet what my message is by providing multiple names for you by now...

You'll never get it.

Regarding the advisory doesn't mean diddly squat if everyone votes. Tell me one election where there was a 100% voter turnout. Those who vote are part of the 100% results given. That's good enough for me.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 7:23 a.m.

Oh Yeah!!! Love the Sin Dawg! A great treat for sure!!!

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Roundup ready" plants don't contain glyphosate, but rather, are immune to it.

That is, a field of roundup ready crops could be sprayed with roundup and the weeds would be knocked down, but the crop itself immune.

Insect resistant plants don't contain pesticide. They've had genetic material from a bacterium introduced into the germplasm. Now -that- might be something to think about ☺

Drift — October 22, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 6:39 a.m

Manthou, I also blame the growth hormones they use in feed for the animals to bring to harvest sooner on our children/grandchildren going into puberty much sooner than we did.
When I was a kid girls around 12 to 14 started, boys around 16, now I see girls as young as 8/9, boys about 12/13.

There also is the explosion of diabetes, ADHD, and one must also add MS to the list.
Not saying GMO or additives are to solely to blame, just note those among many others have gained in numbers.

As far as MS, I brother in law had the worse case of it. Died when he was in his 40's. A niece was using artificial sweetener, became ill, showed all signs of MS. Had tests done, test showed positive. She heard about the connection between the artificial sweeteners the symptoms of and false/positive tests for MS. Educating herself on it, she stop the use of the sweetener and every sign of MS was gone within weeks. Retested and test came back negative. That was 2 yrs ago and she has had no more problems. She was a breath away from going on MS treatments.

So yes, there is a lot to consider about what these companies are doing to our food supply.

ELISI — October 22, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 22, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. (my perspective based on fact)

You might take a peek at the first link below. The ground is prepared prior to planting and continues during the growth phase. The plants absorb the RoundUp, then seed is harvested for future growing and selling needs. Yes, RoundUp is in the seeds. They can say what they want, but there's a reason why the seeds are immune to the effects of RoundUp and this is why it is so dangerous to organic farmers...hence the nickname "RoundUp Ready." The Super-immune plants will literally kill off anything not grown in RoundUp-ready soils.

I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable site, but this one shows a bit about RoundUp Ready Soybeans. The credits at the bottom of the article pretty much shows this as being a viable write:

In addition to the issues of Monsanto's product, I am also quite concerned about what is killing off the bees. The article below by MotherJones pretty much sums it up in my opinion:

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 22, 2013 at 7:42 a.m.

Holymoses...trying to part the Red Seas again? How do you know what is good for me? Do you know my dietary needs? Do you know my exercise regimen? Do you know my lifestyle? Do you know where I get my food and how it was produced in the first place?

Do you honestly think I take your statement seriously?

We (all of us) haven't lost the battle. In fact, the battle is strongly leaning in our favor. If we can continue this battle in favor of humanity by providing a healthier food source without all the unnecessary chemical treatments and additives, the future generations will gain the most benefit. Sorry, but I'm not interested in a future of Soylent Green, bubba.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks all for the good discussion about GMOs and where and what to eat and stay clear of. Elisi, extra thanks for your personal story about the artificial sweeteners. It's been my thinking/opinion for a very long time that the huge rate of autism in this country is due to the crap floating around in our bodies. Money talks-as long as they can make a buck, we will not ever hear of everything they have added to our food since the 50s. Those convenience food from back then, all those it any wonder?

luvithere — October 22, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The nail offered: ///State agencies recommend reining in medical pot///

Here's a link to the recommendations;

And they are simply ludicrous. If these recommendations are adopted by the legislature it would be catastrophic to the 'medicinal cannabis community.' It would undermine measure 692, passed by 59% of the voters.

'Collectives' are an issue because of ambiguity in the law. Clean up section 69.51A.085 and that problem would be solved.

The presumptive amount of 24 oz. could be reduced, limiting some diversion, but 3 oz. isn't viable. Many 'patients' process their plant material producing tinctures, topicals, etc. Some of those processes take several ounces.

The registration is problematic from a financial standpoint. On top of paying for an annual clinic visit would be the registration fee. Many (if not most) folks utilizing cannabis medicinally are disabled and haven't two nickels to rub together.

Removing home grows is plain ridiculous. The cost of my meager indoor garden is pennies. Again, there's a financial consideration. Also, consider I've been working for five years to produce a strain to afford relief for -my- malady. Plants custom bred for -me-. One might also consider the gardening as therapeutic. Many folks don't get out much and growing is somewhat like a productive hobby.

It looks like I'll be drafting letters. I sure hope the legislature has better sense than to introduce some of this crap as a bill.

Drift — October 22, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 22, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.

Holyole', you think I disagree with your statement??? Only the part that you claim we've lost the battle. That one I believe you are mistaken. Yes, every household has something in it which has carcinogenic properties, but you don't eat plastic or asbestos now, do you? Hard to believe there are plastic additives in a lot of the processed food these days, huh!

I'd much rather eat that organic apple, cutting around the worm holes than I would with one sprayed at the farm or preserved at the warehouse. Of course, I have an ample supply of apples, pears, grapes and cherries at my house, so I don't have to go out and buy the ones at the stores.

And the stores that sell certified GMO-free products...they have to go through certain government standards to claim that.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 22, 2013 at 8 a.m.

It's a never-ending educating experience. Every day, there's something new. Just the other day, it was recognized by the WHO that air pollution causes cancer...something us "Moms" have been saying for years. A natural air filtration system we are credited for having an abundance here in Clark County is.....

Trees and water.

Probably one of the reasons why people are moving to our region.

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 7:23 a.m

Have you read about the man behind Dave's bread? Quite an interesting story about how he started out at his families bakery to how he became a criminal, did several rounds in prison then ended up back at his families bakery in Portland.

ELISI — October 22, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 22, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.

Thanks for your community involvement/advocacy with this. This reads like 21st century Reefer Madness. Physicians to patients to growers to retailers have much to fear from big brother on this.

At "minimum" these are the recommendations? Absurd from the get go.

I was happy to vote yes on I-502, much due to wanting this glass ceiling shattered. As the shards start falling a part of me is having second thoughts. I do believe these are the birthing pains for a larger national referendum for across the board legality. (I guess in some respects it still needs to be legal Here)

These recommendations are beyond onerous. It smacks of threats & penalties regarding use/possession, and use of personal info for both doctor and patient. Please keep us informed of public gatherings about this in case something slips by.

It's a plant for Christ's sake. A fruitful and medicinal one at that. I was hoping Washington State would break ground, instead of busting heads.

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 22, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: Do you remember when Dave (of Dave's Killer Bread) actually sold the stuff himself behind an umbrella booth at the Vancouver Farmer's Market?

I do. :)

Everyone deserves a chance to rehabilitate themselves and it is always easier when your community and loved ones are supportive of the effort.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vancouver hosts marijuana Initiative 502 local zoning standards open house Oct. 24

Press Release Date:
Monday, October 21, 2013

WA State Liquor Control Board "I-502 Implementation" image
The City of Vancouver is currently developing citywide zoning standards under statewide marijuana Initiative 502. Those interested in learning more about this process are invited to attend an informational open house on Thursday, Oct. 24.

The open house will be from 6 to 8 p.m. in the Firstenburg Community Center Resource Room, 700 NE 136th Ave., Vancouver. City staff will make informal presentations once each hour and will be available to answer questions and collect input.

I-502, which was approved by voters in 2012, allows small-scale, private marijuana use by adults under Washington law, subject to limitations. Marijuana sales, processing or growing facilities must be at least 1,000 feet from schools, playgrounds, recreation centers, child care centers, public parks, transit centers, libraries and arcades.

Local governments can also establish additional zoning or operational standards. In September 2013, the City of Vancouver adopted a temporary moratorium on marijuana retail facilities along with interim allowances for indoor growing and processing facilities, and will be working with the community and stakeholders to develop permanent standards in 2013 and early 2014.

For more information about the open house, or to request alternate formats or other accommodation, please contact Bryan Snodgrass, Vancouver Community and Economic Development Department, 360-487-7946,

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

Thanks langenthal. I hope these meetings are not displayed on CCTV. I'm sure a lot of folks wouldn't testify for fear of their employer getting wind of it. Sometimes I feel nothings changed at all.

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You are right, you can't most likely afford a home making min wage or $15 an hour.. That's why we have apartment buildings and rental homes. And yes we need to "WISE UP" that didn't happen in the last election and this is what we have.. A president who doesn't know what the president should be doing. So he is just ramming whatever he can down our throats. Locally a bridge would increase employement on this side of the ditch. We would end up growing small businesses here as well. The average wage would increase. You might even see more business from out of state relocate here. As far as tolls for this bridge and the 205, if that's the way Oregon sets it up I guess we really won't have a choice now will we.. We should move on to fight other things, just like the last election.

Dave's Killer bread is #1 in our house. Love the variety...

vanwadreamer — October 22, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailing it @ 9:30: Speaking of things that don't change, I remember attending a symposium at the U. of Minn., back in the early 70's featuring the President of mega-food company, Cargill, and Norman Borlaug, the Father of the Green Revolution, both of whom cited unchecked population growth as the rationale for artificially modifying food production.

I don't remember the details, but the symposium probably had something to do with Earth Day so I'm sure it was used as additional proof of the need to for population control.

JohnK — October 22, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- Did you hear C Crain say that she is tracking all properties that might be sold under eminent domain? She's watching to see who profits.

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola --- It was worth the price of admission today. Loved hearing Madore ask that people speak respectfully to employees. Stuart reminded Madore of his behavior at C-Tran & related meetings.

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I only watched a small portion of the BOCC meeting today and will catch Carolyn's angry act later.

These guys want it both ways. On one hand, they say Benton is a manager/political appointee and was exempt from the hiring procedures and laws. In other words, he is a "cabinet member." On the other hand, they say he is an employee and should be protected from criticism.

BS! If he is a political appointee, then he needs to answer questions and be held accountable to the tax paying public just like the friends who appointed him.

I also liked how they had to take out a B of A loan to pay for the 10.5 million dollar settlement, payable in full before 30 days. Tried to spin it as if it were some sort of smart deal.

Here's a smart plan: make sure your employees and managers follow best practices law and ethics so the tax payers don't have to pay for their ineptitude and errors when they are finally caught.

Hey: the invocation just prayed for the soul of Vancouver today! Was that an accident or a carefully-crafted political statement: only Vancouver needs prayers because only Vancouver needs God's full intervention and protection? Clark County is perfect?

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 9:13 a.m

I remember when my daughter had brought home a loaf, ended up being one of husband and son's favorite.

Dave's bread is the first thing my daughter buys when her and her family come down for a visit. It's not sold in Alaska and she has said she has grown tired of sour dough. Been thinking about mailing her some loaves. Wish the flat rate boxes were a little bigger so I could fit like 4 or 5 loaves in one that would work out great. When the grandson was down this summer to stay with us, he brought an empty suitcase with him just so he could take back some of Dave's bread along with a variety of Tillamook cheese they don't get in Alaska and some new school clothes.

ELISI — October 22, 2013 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: We have the same ritual in our family. Funny! My California son and his family get Dave's bread when I go visit. I see passengers boarding the plane carrying VooDoo donut boxes and I have two loaves of Dave's spelt bread (my son's favorite) in my bag. :)

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It was pretty obvious that Madore, Cain, and the other lady without a life, had decided today would be a good day to coordinate their efforts to provoke Stuart into a response that would allow Madore to keep playing martyr.

Madore looked like he was ready to wet his pants when Stuart gave him 'the look,' and appeared relieved when all Stuart did was hang the hypocrisy label around his neck.

JohnK — October 22, 2013 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I would be surprised if any public officials with voting rights on the CRC own any of the targeted properties scheduled for acquisition for light rail and interchange construction, but Carolyn will ferret any out, if they exist. It will keep her busy for awhile, poring over the records.

I suppose a case could be made that any elected official who lives near the light rail line stands to gain property value, based on research that shows real estate value increases near light rail. She might make a point there. However, it has always been the contention of the anti-LR crowd that LR decreases property values. They will have to do a flip-flop to get that one to fly.

I am so heartwarmed to know that so many citizens like Carolyn are suddenly worried about me and others losing our property to Tri-Met. I think I am used to hearing "Downtown Mafia" used to describe our ilk, so I welcome the warm and fuzzies for a change. :)

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: I noticed that David Madore's hands were wrapped in a white cloth today. Did he injure himself? He did speak up, but he seemed subdued to me today. Not a lot of confidence and arrogance.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 7:46 a.m.

Mason bees don't make honey but they are great pollinators, and can be raised and kept in your own yard. Also, they are native to the Americas, unlike honey bees. Very interesting, hubby's second year of promoting them in our yard.

holycrapola — October 22, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.
I know your post was to GO, but wanted to comment on a lost battle...
I'm not ready to give up on seeking a way for clean foods or information clarity... on many subjects, really. "A single grain for rice can tip the scale", or A single drop of water raises the sea". Sure those are movie quotes or something but the point is Trying Matters. Or maybe a resistance to the expected 'rollover factor' that those who try to drown out my voice (and facts) with mountains of money.

JohnK — October 22, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.

Just downloaded "Countdown: Our Last Best Hope for a Future on Earth" by Alan Weisman. Haven't started it yet, but Its writeup included claims toward a positive place for humans in a more sustainable ecosystem, but the basic subject is population overload that is the really big speeding train rushing towards the proverbial cliff. Not sure if there's anything in it but did read "The World Without Us", which was worth reading.

jacjak — October 22, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ron Goodman posted to Clark County Citizens for Good Governance
Don Benton's 'Global' 'mulit-department' business National Advertising Consultants is licensed at 3503 E Fourth Plain, Suite E

It's a butcher shop!

hawkeye — October 22, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK --- That was Carolyn Crain and her mini-me, Penny Ross. Five minutes seems like a long time when she has the floor. I hope I'm not watching on the day she strokes out. I think it's called "performance art".

manthou --- Madore sounded like he had a cold. I asked earlier what follows a manic episode. Maybe we'll find out.
holyc --- This is a follow up to your contribution from Madore FB. Must read the comments. Picture is included if you go to the link.

Ron Goodman
Don Benton's 'Global' 'mulit-department' business National Advertising Consultants is licensed at 3503 E Fourth Plain, Suite E
His desk must be somewhere amid the meat displays in the carniceria.
" Does integrity matter? I would think that it should" David Madore 10/22/2013

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou if property values increase next to or near light rail than do I have a piece for them. I just turned 64 on the 19th and I am ready to go. Might be a good location for a new pot store. Right on the main line in to Vancouver.

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 2:01 p.m

You mentioned VooDoo donuts..funny, When my daughters in laws come here when they were moving from Alaska to Colorado 3 yrs ago VooDoo donuts was the first place they wanted to go! Mother in law had heard about them from some of the troops at the air base where she worked.
They rerouted their flight through here in June and had to stay over a night just to get VooDoo donuts for their flight back to Colorado again.

ELISI — October 22, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 2:52 p.m.

Happy Birthday!! At 64 you're still a puppy. Blessings!

jacjak — October 22, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

looking like our current health ins premiums are set to go up 15% 1/1/14-got the news today. Coincidence? our out of pocket will go from 3K to 10K looking at the "exchange". For both of us? Now semi-retired, this is incredulous. People vote their wallets-look out. Income dropping, health insurance appears to be skyrocketing at a real bad time. Why we got a once-over on a for-profit system is beyond me. The single-payer system seemed to work best. After all, I see no other country emulating our out-of-control system. We got sold down the river, or so it seems as of now.

mrd — October 22, 2013 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you jacjac I don't feel like a puppy. More like the old bone the pup buried.

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: I am going to have to brave the lines and get some VooDoo donuts, just for the experience. They have cultivated a following!

timerick: I would hate to lose you as a business neighbor, but I get being ready to close up shop and enjoy your family. Don't let the LR threat and CRC be your determiner because it will take years to get here, IF it is approved.

langenthal: R and R Investments owns the building that Benton's business is supposed to be in. That is owned by a gentleman named Richard Caruanas. I guess Benton forgot to change his address for the B and O tax collector. I like your image of his desk's location among the butchered meat. Seems apt. :)

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou is R&R; investments the same group that owns the complex on 4th Plain and Kauffman that has sat vacant for so many years?

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: No. I met the owner of that a couple of years ago. His first name is Rich and he is originally from NJ and now lives in Lake Oswego. He still owns that Kaufman building, plus the building on 4th Plain that used to house the Vancouver Business Journal.

He does not appear to need the rent, as both places have been vacant a long time.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: My husband jogged my memory. The owner of that vacant shopping center is Rich Piacentini and he now lives in Seattle. He holds a lot of property in da 'Couve.

When I first met him, he introduced himself to me as "Richie" and I thought I heard "Barzini" as his last name, as in The Godfather character Barzini. :) So I always remember that meeting because he was from NJ, too. :) He seemed like a nice guy.

I'd love for someone to buy that building on Kaufman and 4th Plain from him and put in a Trader Joe's. :)

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Looking forward to Stephanie Rice's article about the PDC complaint filed against Vancouver Vitality tomorrow. Apparently, many rules were allegedly broken. But the PDC will not complete this investigation until after the election.

For starters, this group failed to list its top 5 donors, which is required. Wonder who they could be?

With the multiple errors, misinformation and forge-ahead-discover-the-rules-later modus operandi, why does David Madore keep coming to mind?

Like I said, he appeared abnormally subdued and distracted today. Less cocky and confident. Could he be anticipating another blow? Maybe he just has a cold.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

New Gallup poll shows that 58% of Americans favor marijuana legalization. This could be a great opportunity for Republicans, if they would just follow Republican ideals and support ending the Federal war on marijuana. The only problem is that the chances of the Republican party supporting Republican ideals is pretty slim.

frobert — October 22, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou at 5:48: Oh boy! Keep passing that popcorn, please! Where did you here about the PDC article, btw?

pfaffmachine — October 22, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 5:48 p.m: Didn't know anything about the PDC complaint, or tomorrow's story, but it probably explains Madore's silly attempt to play detective today by 'exposing' the address of the Leavitt campaign's CPA, and then attempting to fan the flames of some of his more excitable followers by issuing another call to arms.

JohnK — October 22, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What an interesting bunch there is on the forum!!! I decided to go back and read the comments of the about a great character study...a definite division of thoughts!!! All the makings for some creative writing over the course of the next week...or at least one heckuva great party! Can you imagine how it would be if we were all in the same room??? I'm not sure if all could mingle together but it truly would be an interesting scenario!!! I picture it much like a public town hall..................8)))

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hehehe....a gathering of the entire list of forum commenters reminds me of those old sci-fi movies where the Butler did it...8)

goldenoldie — October 22, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 5:13 p.m.

"Rich Piacentini", is he related to John Piacentini? The ex-owner of Plaid Pantry?

hawkeye — October 22, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal is hosting a petition to have Republican leadership charged with sedition. In their defense they have a disclaimer on the petition that it may not be in keeping with their progressive values. What is astonishing is that over 50,000 signers want dissenting voices and votes silenced by imprisonment, many of the posters prefer that those with differing opinions be executed. Sad state of affairs when United States citizens favor imprisonment or execution for those with differing opinions. Huffingtonpost comments reflect much the same sentiment, the Dailykos however has many liberals outraged with those posters.

frobert — October 22, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk are you having lunch with Madore tomorrow?

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 6:44 pm: D'oh. I did not put those surnames together. John Piancentini's obit lists a Richard Piacentini of Seattle as one of his sons. So I was in the presence of greatness and did not know it. Or at least great wealth. Explains why that shopping center has been vacant all these years.

pfaffmachine and JohnK: You can thank blogger extraordinaire Lew Waters for the heads-up on Ms. Rice's pending article tomorrow:

He says Vancouver Vitality is just a bunch of little guy citizens who made some novice errors in their zeal to protect us all. We'll see what the PDC investigation shows. After the election.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It is interesting that the email for Vancouver Vitality is a hushmail dot com account, one of those services that hides the user's identity.

More and more this does sound like someone does not want to be discovered. Someone who preaches transparency and open government, but practices stealth and deception.

At least we know who is behind Forward Vancouver.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.

No, I'm busy. LOL
But I'm free on Thursday, How about you?

manthou — Remember when you go to VooDoo, they ONLY take cash. No plastic, no checks.

hawkeye — October 22, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I must say, local politics here can get interesting. Nothing like growing up in Vegas with the Mob murders, Mob rule, casino moguls, paid off politicians and a super corrupt PD to go with it. Although the attitude of local conservative politico's seem to catch that "mob" spirit a tad bit. :)

Let's hope contracts here remain those of paper & pen.


BTW-Happy belated birthday timerick!

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

~Abraham Lincoln~

///CNN Poll: GOP & tea party unfavorables at all-time highs///

Washington (CNN) - A new national poll provides more evidence of the political hit the Republican Party, the tea party movement, and House Speaker John Boehner took over the government shutdown.

According to a CNN/ORC International survey released Tuesday, 64% of Americans say they have an unfavorable view of the GOP, an all-time high dating back to 1992 when CNN first asked the question. Only three in 10 say they hold a favorable view of the party.

Read more @

nailingit — October 22, 2013 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk I think I busy on thursday. Maybe one day next month. I don't really care for crow.

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stephanie Rice has posted her story about Vancouver Vitality already. Busy journalist, as she had to stand in for a sick Erik Hidle today at BOCC.

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 22, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.

Sorry tim, I don't follow. Ain't no crow on MY plate.

hawkeye — October 22, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 22, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.

See below. He's had the flu or a cold for the last 2 days. I still think it's the other side of a manic episode. What goes up must come down ...

from D Madore FB today:
Christina Gattuccio David, how did you conclude this to be a "mystery address"? It's a real address... Printed right on the flyer...the campaign treasurers business...The real mystery here for me is how you have the hours in the day to crank all this out, run a business and participate as one of three commissioners for Clark county? My hypothesis is that you don't have all that time, and that paid staff are reading, screening and responding on David Madore's behalf. We the citizens have no assurances, no checks and balances, no evidence that these postings and replies are even your own. A community guided by Facebook postings is nothing more than pure doubt. How can you keep this real? I have a REAL idea for you... You Tube...yep, really. Please consider posting your words on YouTube David.. It's the only way we can really be sure that these postings are your own. Will you consider this? I for one (of many) would support this....

David Madore Christina Gattuccio, allow me to answer how I get my work done:

After seeing the address on Leavitt’s flyer today, my curiosity and the beautiful sunny day prompted me to get outside and hike the eight blocks from my county office and solve the mystery I had wondered about. The posted picture was captured on my iPhone 5S. I called the address a mystery because of the curiosity that prompted my hike.

A very capable staff continues to run US Digital without me. In fact, I think they are doing a better job than when I was heading it up full time. It continues to grow, add new staff, design new products, and is finishing up the process to become ISO-9001 certified.

I write every word of my Facebook posts and comments. I work as your commissioner full time during the day, do my homework and daily postings at night, often past midnight as you can see from the timestamps on my daily postings.

You are welcome to come shadow me any time and see that the key to getting stuff done is to love what you do. I love my new job. I normally run up and down the six flights of stairs and avoid the elevator. The exception was yesterday and today. I took the elevator a few times since I had the flu or a cold for the last two days. I am back to full speed now and thank God for great health and near endless energy.

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: Madore's "near endless energy" may be what gets him in trouble in the end.
One of the homes near Clark College that is on the full acquisition list for demolition, should LR be built (rest easy, I don't think it will happen in our lifetime), has been causing a headache in the Arnada neighborhood. It is boarded up, uninhabitable: no electricity, water, heat but squatters have claimed it and are making mucho mischief. Police action there last night. Interesting to note that the owners are in arrears for property tax payments on another property and have a judgment on their own million dollar home, but in full compliance with this disaster.

Maybe Carolyn and her friends would like to claim and protect this property, as well as its inhabitants.

I will be making follow up calls to Code Compliance and the VanPD today to see what it takes to shut this flop house down.

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 5:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Voodoo Doughnuts has a national following - I've got friends back east that are spreading the gospel. So at least one visit is mandatory. Having said that, much of the reputation is marketing hype, and the need for pushing the envelope means what they offer is often pretty bizarre. (Maybe I'm wrong, but doughnuts topped with cereal is a flop.) Frankly, they're just a high end (and high priced) version of what I consider an excellent alternative - Safeway bakery doughnuts.

roger — October 23, 2013 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Thanks for the personal review of VooDoo. All I have to do is look at the looooong line outside and run in the opposite direction. That does tell me that someone is a marketing genius.

I absolutely refuse to join the Portland crowds who love to wait in long lines for brunch, dinner, nightclubs, donuts.

I do hear that the maple bars with bacon are the best, though.

hawkeye: If I go, I will bring my hard-earned cash. :) But I ain't hauling a box on an airplane for anyone.

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 5:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou and roger, I've heard the big deal about the VooDoo donuts is that you can buy them by the bucket for cheap. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. I'd heard one time that they had a maple bar topped with bacon. Portland Weirdness gone wild??? My husband tried one...didn't see anything special about better than what Safeway has to offer. Remember the craze on Crispy Cremes??? They're good when they're warm but once cooled sticks to the roof of your mouth...8)) Used to be, the best place was Albertson's. Even better...home made! Oh yeah!!!!

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So how about Donut Nook??? Anybody try theirs yet???

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just read the article about the interview with our Democratic leaders Moeller, Wylie and Cleveland and was a bit surprised. They have little faith in Oregon's...Kitzhaber's take on the CRC. I was very pleased to see that Senator Cleveland is prioritizing jobs on local SW Washington roads. For that, I support her 100% and I hope she acquires the $450 million to get the jobs done. Any improvement on existing infrastructure is a positive move! (my perspective) I certainly hope the R side of the coin in our neck of the woods is also pushing for that funding as long as it goes towards needed improvements mentioned in the article and not diverted to the I-5 loo rail nightmare!

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I went to the last Town Hall of the 49th LD and was reassured, too, that all three legislators are adamant: they will NOT support any transportation package that does not include something we need in Clark County.

The taxes we pay here have been given priority funding to transportation projects up North.

Just as our Federal taxes that might have gone to a CRC project here, will still be paid but enjoyed by another state.

We pay for it one way or the other, so I think we need to holler about keeping some of the money and projects in Clark County. It does not have to be the CRC, but give us something for our tax dollars here.

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 7:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk I was talking about lunch with Madore. I am sure they would serve us crow. Because that is what he will be having.

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldenoldie, is the Donut Nook the one on St Johns? If so my son's welding/woodshop teacher Doug Roger use to buy a box and take to his 1st period class for the kids once in awhile as a treat for them. Son said they were good when still warm.

I tried their cakelings (cake donuts) once and wasn't impressed.

manthou, really VooDoo donuts aren't anything special except the shapes and wild pairing of toppings. Like the maple bars with bacon, or ones with dry cereal or the voodoo doll shaped ones with pretzel as needles. If ever by VooDoo's by all means try them. They have 2 on sw 3rd ave. and ne Davis st.

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Did anyone happened to read this, this morning? Sounds like BG has it's own problems with city elected..

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 22, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

langenthal — October 22, 2013 at 2:49 p.m

When I tried both your links for the address on Fourth Plain both came up as Factored Software LLC in Auburn WA.

Am I missing something? Weird...

jacjak — October 23, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 23, 2013 at 7:25 a.m.

Holydonis, the same thing you mentioned regarding light rail and the wasted energies could be said about your fetish with Madore.

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

acjak @ 7:58 am: Very strange! When I opened those links yesterday, they showed Don Benton's business.

Wonder if he closed his business with the B and O site yesterday and this other one moved into the "vacant" slot?

There are so many impressive alert sleuths on here.....

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jackjak: It is still on the B and O Dept of Revenue site when I completed a search. It still does not explain how those links you mention above changed. :(

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 23, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.

ASSumptions get you nowhere.

So holyfeatherbrains...what are you doing to correct the political issues in Portland, since that's where you reside??? Corruption is in every town and it seems you are taking it upon yourself to attack Madore all the time (old news). What about Kitzhaber and his attempts to bilk Oregon taxpayers out of hundreds of millions of dollars to send loo rail into another state??? ELISI pointed out a big issue in Battleground. Since you're putting on a show, fighting corruption like a warrior, what are you going to do about Battleground's issues???

If you haven't noticed, I've called out politicians on several occasions. You think I'm remaining silent? That'll be the day. Seems to me you have chosen to attack Madore (as you have ever since the meeting at his business) even before he was a commissioner. So now, you're attacking me, thinking life is all hunky dory for me. Bubba??? You don't live in my shoes. You can't speak for me and I'll thank you to keep your nose out of my personal business. got issues!!!

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems to me you have chosen to attack Madore (as you have ever since the meeting at his business) even before he was a commissioner.
goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 8:58 a.m

I still think he was turned down by Madore about a business venture that's why all the venom towards him.

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, only holyfeatherbrains knows what is going on in his little mind.

MY perspective

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope don't think so hc don't be a dimwit. If you're going to lie at least remember the lie.

After your meeting with Madore at U.S. Digital I remember you going off about him NOT interested in a TV production venture you were interested in and needed a partner.

I can't produce what you said as alleycat since you were banned, all that conversation is gone.

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Aww yes good old Woodie Guthrie, the one that was always associated with the communist party..good role model.

Yeah he cranked out some good songs, are what you associate yourself with.

HC it was you that came back from your meeting with Madore po'd about the TV venture a no go.

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Old news on Vancouver Vitality.. Was posted couple weeks ago and even in the O.. I say let them spend the money the way they want.
Holy, you have probably earned the right to do almost whatever you dam well please. So have these folks.. Find your true love and spend the rest of your life enhancing each others life, don't dwell on this website as it seems to be only tearing you up inside, let go and "BE HAPPY"...

vanwadreamer — October 23, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 23, 2013 at 11:15 a.m

I was think more to the fact he needs to ...

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak --- I think I'll check out the location at 3503 E 4TH PLAIN BLVD SUITE E
Donut Nook
4403 NE St Johns Rd
Vancouver, WA

Baked fresh every morning. Good variety if you don't go late in afternoon. Usually a limited choice of day old.

langenthal — October 23, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe he should also take ride on..

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 11:38 a.m.

Hey now, insulting the memory of John Deutschendorf, Jr...aka...John Denver...especially with the song "Country Roads." I'm thinkin' this is more holycat's style...

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(and he named it "Harley."...8)

goldenoldie — October 23, 2013 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! 'bout choked on me ice water!

ELISI — October 23, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Any thoughts on messing with David Nierenberg? The latest APIL blog:

Regarding Voodoo doughnuts: It's been years, but I did enjoy the maple-bacon bar. Not necessarily worth a trip into Portland for me, and I like some other places better (Cocodonuts in Portland). I'm glad Vancouver has an increasing number of quality bakeries (Sugar and Salt, Julia's, Bleu Door. Mmm, bakeries...

pfaffmachine — October 23, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think i'm going to head up to the N F Lewis and dip my rod in the water, maybe bring some dinner home.. Enjoy the weather Basement peeps..Did Holy say he was heading up that way, If I see a HD on the road I'll honk...:)

vanwadreamer — October 23, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer at 1:13 -- Nice. Report back, please! Which reminds me: my creel is dusty, and that isn't a metaphor.

pfaffmachine — October 23, 2013 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 1:11 PM: Loved that email from David Nierenberg. Things are crazy. I was not joking the other day when I said that the Dems need to join forces with the moderate Republicans and push back on this stuff hard.

Mr. Nierenberg had no trouble doing so all by himself. Good for him.

Tootling around downtown today and saw this new (to me) sign:

Ignore the Madore 4

That's the whole problem with negative campaigns. They have to escalate. They always escalate. It's gonna get worse.

manthou — October 23, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 23, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Did check CC property tax gis site as R & R Investments LLC w/ same address Suite B as mailing address. If you do check it out Google street view shows it as a strip mall w/ a upper level in the back, but hard to tell.

jacjak — October 23, 2013 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 23, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.
Also, gsi site also shows 16313 NE Leaper Rd as the address for Nat'l Advertising Consultants.

Arrrgh... too many business names and licenses for this amature sleuth... better get busy doing something constructive.

jacjak — October 23, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I think It is going to get worse also. It is sad to see and doesn't have to be this way. It is ok to disagree but it should be done with respect to the other person. We all have different views of things. I read Mr. Nierenbergs letter also. And while I agree that both him and Mr. Lynch have done a tremendous amount with the money they have to make things better in this county They are not the only ones. Maybe not with money but we have regular people, every day workers that give a tremendous amount of their free time. They mentor children,coach youth teams, volunteer with the elderly and a multitude of other things that make life better for all of us. And they do it with very little thanks from the media or the people of this county. Having a lot of money to spread around does not make one a saint to be put on a pedestal. I think we have seen this with Mr. Madore and many others. No matter what side of the fence one sits on we as a people can not let someone rule just because they have a lot of money. Sorry just had to rant a little. This whole mess shines on all of us that live here.

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 4:18 p.m.

Well said. Bravo!

nailingit — October 23, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 4:18 I completely agree but until we find a way around recent and anticipated Supreme Court decisions giving corporations equal or greater rights than citizens and then find a way to prevent the rich from exercising a level of political power not available to the average citizen, we'll continue moving towards a one dollar-one vote form of government.

JohnK — October 23, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 23, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.
I don't understand why liberals complain so much about Citizens United, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the liberal film makers. The door was opened and the case was made by liberals. Now only liberals complain about the ruling.

frobert — October 23, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe Carolyn and her friends would like to claim and protect this property, as well as its inhabitants.
manthou — October 23, 2013 at 5:38 a.m.

As you've mentioned the spotlight being turned toward property owners along LR routes, and the citizens who are going to protect their rights, like it or not, I couldn't help but notice a new (yes, yet another new) sign along Hwy 14 today. It said 'Save My Home' and 'yes on I-601'. When I got home, it looked it up. It looks to be out of Spokane & the Spokane County GOP is endorsing it. So far looks like it's in the signature gathering phase so am surprised to see signage here. Isn't there something about how many days before an election signs can be put up?

Get ready to hold on to something good and tight as it looks like it might be a huge tidalwave of initiatives, referendums, advisory votes, and polls in 2014 if it's already starting.

jacjak — October 23, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I agree. But answer me this. Regardless of what the Supreme Court does, how are we ever to take the money out? It has never happened and most likely never will. We have to learn to respect what others think and how they act. Because you have lots of money should not give any special rights. If you can come up with a way to stop that I will support you 100 percent. We are all in this together. Because I say this is what I want means nothing. We need to come to some kind of agreement to meet in the middle. Those with the most money will try to never let that happen. Money does not make things right. I wish I had a answer to that but I don't. It will always be people like us that take care of each other. And we don't need to cause desention in our ranks. But we have head strong people that don't realize that. They will cut of their noses to spit their face. You and I look at some things different that is ok. But I think we would still stand together for the greater good. Thanks Nail I do listen to what you say.

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I can't believe an article I was just looking 11 year old being charged on suspicion of attempted murder? (Frontier Middle School). Where the heck were his parents...gosh why can't parents now-a-days be parents instead of trying to be their kids' friend? It's stuff like this that I will never put my kiddo in public schools. I know it's anywhere but wth. Why weren't the teachers alarmed to this child's behaviour? It is so sad for that little kid and I want to smack his parents. I don't care what age my kid is (or my nephews and nieces) I will ask them what is going on in their life and talk to them about what is going on in their schools. I will ask if kids are being mean to them and ways they can alleviate the situation WITHOUT violence or the thought of violence. I will ask if they are being mean to anyone as well. It's just completely heartbreaking to see a child be charged for something such as that. Way to go parents, get off the social media, stop putting your work and financial worries on your kids, and stop blaming everyone else for your own problems.
(Not saying that is the case with this 11 year old but it's something I see all the time lately and it's sad.)

mxfun118 — October 23, 2013 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

anyone notice the tortured wording of the advisory vote #1, Light Rail Advisory Vote?

i'm really beginning to dislike gvt..

DeeLittle — October 24, 2013 at 2:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: Money equaling privilege, Teabaggers, and a few other odds and ends. From Jefferson's letter to William Smith thanking him for an advance copy of our Constitution to review. (He starts with a short discussion on why he's against a long term chief executive, which I left out.) Madison,, may have provided order to our new nation, but writings like this one from TJ emphasize the need for a bit of turmoil every now and then. What the 'Baggers are doing may be repugnant to some, but to others it represents the need to push back against a domineering government and restore control to the people. Note the comment toward the end - "The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." This advice was followed in the aftermath of our War Between The States. Dismissing the 'Bagger movement outright, and continually ridiculing them in the Press, only deepens the divide and strengthens their resolve to disrupt our government. What Jefferson actually was calling for was an effective compromise - one where differing opinions and beliefs are heard and incorporated into our governance.

"Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order."

roger — October 24, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — October 24, 2013 at 2:35 a.m.

I'm not seeing "tortured" wording in the first two advisory votes - they call for the County Comms to oppose any attempt to install light rail or bus rapid transit unless they've first gained majority support in an advisory vote of the entire County. Where things get murky is the understanding that this is advisory in nature only - even if approved, the County Comms can still vote any way they damned well please.

Perhaps you mean in the supporting/opposing statements? I quit reading them after Advisory 1; all politics, and a whole lot of verbiage that could be condensed to a couple of sentences.

roger — October 24, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


....should we APPROVE something which OPPPOSES something unless it's APPROVED by others....

i've seen this before. it usually tries to catch um...'casual' reading in a trap to vote a way other than they intended.

DeeLittle — October 24, 2013 at 6:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 23, 2013 at 7:23 p.m.,

As near as I can tell, I601 (if on the ballot and passed) is intended to allow some sort of electronic payment of property tax over time, without incurring interest and penalties. It's intended (at least as advertised) to help those who can't afford to pay their tax bill when it comes due. No mention of how this would work over time - What happens if someone builds an ever increasing balance due? And it's a little odd that this is coming from the Repub side - I imagine the County Auditor would have to hire a couple of people to maintain the bookkeeping side of this program.

From their facebook page:

I-601 is an initiative to the legislature to allow taxpayers to pay their County Property Tax assessments, any amount, any time, if paid electronically. It also eliminates the 3% (3rd delinquent month) and 8% (9th delinquent month) penalties entirely.

Initiative 601 is an initiative to the legislature to allow taxpayers to pay their County Property Tax assessments any amount any time if paid electronically. It also entirely eliminates the 3% (3rd delinquent month) and 8% (9th delinquent month) penalties in their entirety.
Last session HB1430 would have made the above law but the ultimate result, SB5705, required an agreement between the County Treasurer and Taxpayer to adhere to a monitored individual agreement program to be allowed to make partial payments at the discretion of the County Treasurer. Taxpayers do not need a 3rd party to decide what amount and when they can pay.
1) Electronic partial payment allows the taxpayers the responsibility to match their property tax payments to their own budgets at a simple 12% annual interest on delinquent amounts. Current software allows payments to be made with Debit/Credit, and ACH options. Electronic payments also saves the County Treasurer’s time and resources previously dedicated to hands on property tax collection.
2) I-601 eliminates the usurious late payment penalties that were not enacted until 1982 when interest rates were much higher. These penalties only served to hurt taxpayers who were least able to afford them due to job loss and/or illness.
We are one of the last remaining states to not allow partial payment options on property taxes. Please support allowing Washington State taxpayers the ability to pay their property taxes by signing and circulating petitions to require the Legislature to make a straight up and down vote on this issue.

roger — October 24, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

good ol' TJ. always liked him.

too bad we don't have any thinkers in DC nowadays that are worthy to empty the man's trash.

just a his time, rebellion meant muskets and probably a whole lot of shouting. today, it involves a real, moral dilemma in our military and MAJOR casualties in the cities. not to mention the perfect time to be attacked by....whomever abroad.

i still wonder what the military would do. they take an oath to protect and defend the constitution, but their commander is the prez. what happens if 'we, the people' rebel against a prez who is userping powers not granted to him?

DeeLittle — October 24, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, I have often wondered the same.

I ask a family friend's son who's in the Navy and a neighbor who's in the AF, what would they do if given orders by the pres to take up arms against their own people.

Both answered they'd do no harm, if had to, they'd lay their arms down and walk away.
But that is just 2 of thousands...

ELISI — October 24, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi & DeeLittle: Your question was asked and answered 150 years ago.

JohnK — October 24, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Listening to Wednesday BOCC audio. I don't think Mary Keltz is president of the Commissioner Madore Fan Club.

Also, what is Madore plotting about the ClarkCo Fair? He wants to meet one-on-one with John Morrison because he "has a big long list to go over with him." Hmm.

pfaffmachine — October 24, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine- Re: Yesterday Fishing Trip.
What a beautiful day and trip.. I could have kept driving yesterday afternoon..I made sure the Glass was clean in front of me.. Didn't see HC out there, shucks... Went to my favorite spot on the NF Lewis by the Golf Course... We live in such a beautiful area... Fished for a couple hrs but to no avail, saw couple boats go by and each one had at least one Steelhead.. Don't worry about that dry Creel thing, it usually goes away by the first week of November...While I was standing there casting one after another I kept thinking about the article in the C inside back page of the county section about Lonesome Larry. The Sockeye salmon that was the only one to make it back up to the original spawning grounds where the Columbia starts.. This year they will have over 300K return, a record number never achieved even prior to the dams and record keeping.. It's a great little article. Talks about how this was achieved. It also started me thinking about when and how I started fishing with my father. He taught me long time ago about conservation and the environment. We had many opportunities to catch way more than we could eat but we never did. We also ate everything we caught... Catfish, Crappie, Walleye you name it if we caught it we ate it.. So when we had all our kids together this past labor day weekend at the beach it was so crazy to see the kids come back from fishing, clean and fillet there fish check who wanted to eat some that night and so on.. When watching them all work in unison made me very proud... What a great day of reflection.... I guess you could say proud father... Just some of my thoughts...

vanwadreamer — October 24, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 23, 2013 at 4:18 p.m.

I appreciate your well thought posts. If we all were to be as genuinely sincere and heartfelt as you, we'd all be in a better place. I echo JohnK's earlier post and agree with you that it will indeed get worse before it gets better.

I don't mean to sound cliche, but there are no easy answers. Income disparity is at it's highest level in America with no change in sight.

This is a great map created by a graduate student at University of Oregon. It displays individual states income inequality over the last twenty-five years. Individual high end businesses have profited heavily while the majority have been left in the dust.

"The incomes of the very wealthiest 1 percent of Americans increased by 31.4 percent from 2009 to 2012. By contrast, the bottom 99 percent saw their earnings in the same period go up by just 0.4 percent. In 2012, the top 1 percent collected 19.3 percent of all household income and the top 10 percent took home a record 48.2 percent of total earnings,"

Incredible numbers! Seemingly we've learned nothing from the actions leading to the 2007 recession. We can use our system to make America a fairer playing field in time, it just won't happen in our lifetimes, but we have to start laying the groundwork now. We absolutely know supply side economics don't work, and we have a good idea what does. Let's hope some decent policy gets put into place in the coming years by electing those who will do it.

"Republican President Dwight Eisenhower’s idea of a significant marginal rate cut was to push the top rate down to 91 percent from 92 percent. Corporate taxes hit 50 percent. Jobs proliferated, wages rose, and the economy prospered. Lately, several documentaries have tried to capture the period, including “Something Ventured,” about how the technology boom got its start."

"But I think we would still stand together for the greater good."

That's what it's all about. Together we can chip away this disparity at the voting booths & with our community involvement.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 9:41 am: I kept thinking, as I heard Mary Keitz asserting herself against Madore's manipulation yesterday: You go, girl! He is not used to women like that, I'll wager. I was amused at his idea of replacing a full time community safety/security employee with a few "volunteer retirees" to save money. Someone asked him, So where will these volunteers be when they are trying to take care of themselves instead of Clark County in an emergency? Volunteers don't have to show up for work. He did not realize the position has been vacant for months and the request was for a replacement.

vanwadreamer: Enjoyed your fishing tale. My kids started fishing, crabbing, and clamming when they could just walk. Nothing better for family fun. :)

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 24, 2013 at 5:40 a.m.

Something to keep in mind. These one percenters weren't far removed from torching "witches" at the the stake, and were still banging slaves.

We can cherry pick different writings from back in the day to justify ideologies, but should keep in mind 18th century mindsets could in no way envision the baggage 21st century politics carry. The Bagger movement has been a faux austerity movement from the get go anyway. Just a ridiculous outpouring of folks who will say or do anything to remove this "he's just not one of us", Muslim-anti christ-commie-socialist-America hating on his knees Koran reader from Kenya from office.

No other Presidents in history spent like Reagan & Dubya. The right has never been about reduction in spending, just allocating our dollars to fit within a focused agenda that in no way benefits the middle class. Remember what we just went through a few short years ago. And jobs? Clinton produced more jobs in his eight years then Dubya, his Daddy and Reagan did in twenty years. Good to reflect on.

Flea & Tick collars on sale now at Pet Smart! ;)

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

Hey now!

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — October 24, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.

ELISI — October 24, 2013 at 7:59 a.m.

We're fortunate to have a President who was the president of the Harvard Law Review and a Constitutional scholar as well-lucky us!

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Deficits Don't Matter"

~Dick Cheney~

The right not only is removed from responsible spending habits, they preach against them. (that is unless a Democrat is in office)

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"The incomes of the very wealthiest 1 percent of Americans increased by 31.4 percent from 2009 to 2012."

while I agree with the premise of your post, it should be pointed out this same group lost a lot of wealth 2007-2009 as the markets plummeted. With the Dow pretty much doubling 2009-2012, it stands these folks' wealth would also go way up. But a good portion of that increased wealth is just getting back what they lost.

mrd — October 24, 2013 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 24, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.

The same can be said of the 99% who watched their 401K's/investments plummet, then take off again.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody seen the new signs out yet?

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 24, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.

When I was a child, our family used to fish for chinook and steelhead off the rock at Eagle Creek just down from the old bridge...some beauties caught there for sure!!! The type of bird you saw...if I'm not called an American dipper or water ouzel. I could spend hours watching those along with the running waters, the spawning salmon and the hungry ospreys and bald eagles there. Eagle Creek is a great destination spot for anyone wishing to see nature in action....especially during spawning season.

Another memory of Eagle Creek is when I took the hike up to Punchbowl Falls with family members...well worth the site (when the trail is good).

goldenoldie — October 24, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 1:26 p.m.

One of a zillion others. I tend just to ignore them all. I think they're all eyesores.

goldenoldie — October 24, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 24, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.

I can't think of anything more relaxing than casting out the old line and reeling it in, taking in all the sights and sounds around me. The peace and quiet is a great way to soothe the savage gather thoughts and build on memories. Your comment to pfaffmachine was enjoyable. Thanks for sharing with everyone.

goldenoldie — October 24, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A couple of consumer advisory notes: Election 2013 Vancouver City Council Forum [LIVE] starts at 5:00 (anxious to see if Decker is every bit as foolish as he sounds on FB)---If you have an Amazon account beware of a $79 charge for a "Prime" account charge. Without authorization or notification they grabbed the bucks from my checking account. A bit outraged I dialed up Amazon and they replaced the $$$ within a couple days. Evidently when doing a search this has been going on for quite awhile and is worthy of investigation Think of the tens of millions they are making off this! Scott Pelley in the house?

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nail-that's also true, but I'm thinking the one percenter's wealth is tied a lot more to financial markets than the rest of us which would skew the numbers somewhat it would seem. Either way, it's obvious the "recovery" has been much kinder to them.

mrd — October 24, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — October 24, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

I agree mrd. Crap rolls downhill for sure. We've gotta fix this. Weekly broadcasted town halls would be a start. The billions of corporate welfare handouts we give at the expense of the average taxpayer's quality of life has to be stopped. Revenue has to be raised, Citizens United overturned, and transparency in giving should be priority. Buying politicians has never been so prevalent in society as it is today.

I think of Glenn Beck's idiotic ill conceived march on Washington, and can't help but think how beneficial something like that would be for the average mo advocating for fairness, in what is an out of control and unbalanced system.

Maybe Buffet and a few others could bus folks in, give em' T-shirts and buy Subway sandwiches like the Koch bros do for their sycophants. :)

"We" the people. What's wrong with America in an eight minute vid. More than worth a look.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.

This is my 3rd yr w/ Prime. So far no problem and the benefits of the account justify the cost. Don't do a ton of online shopping but share the free shipping w/ my adult chidren, who do. I don't auto renew anything, but know the auto billing does happen.

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 1:26 p.m.

Yes, saw the sign... I know I shouldn't be petty about such things or excalate negativity, but can't help it, I liked the sign even tho it is specifically referring to the advisory votes and not about anyone he may be endorsing.... I think. For years I've seen horrid signs, including one so offensive I took a pic and saved it from LifePac. The little hateful, inappropriate, or false ones really drive me crazy, like 'so-and- so raised your taxes' when every person sitting on the council voted to do so, but voters who don't check don't know that. Or like so-and-so 'loves tolls' even tho they've never held office. Of course whoever puts those little signs are shady and unethical anyway because there's nothing about who put them out. I did some checking and found out if the sign is small enough you don't have to identify the sign's origin. The ones that really get me tho, is the 'LIAR' spray painted on many of the Leavitt signs. Folks are walking the streets as volunteers to fight against the graffiti and tagging going on in Vancouver, and here we have grown (??) adults doing it. And of course no call down from Turlay about it. What the heck sort of leader can't control his own volunteers, or at least make a harsh public condemsation about it??
Okay, rant done...

jacjak — October 24, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjac I hate seeing the signs also. But I don't like any political signs. If people can't decide for them selves who or what to vote for maybe they shouldn't vote at all. I have never understood how a sign would sway you one way or the other. This time it is especialy nasty. And it all seems to stem from the CRC and C-Tran. We have let two things consume this whole election. Both sides are playing very dirty. I for one will be glad when it is all over one way or the other.

timerick — October 24, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

Political science discusses the party system, and has identified various numbered periods in our history. For example, the Second party system was the time of Jacksonian democracy, and their various changes such as extending suffrage to all adult white males and the concept of Manifest Destiny. We're currently in the Fifth party system, which started with the New Deal. (This is argued; some say the Fifth ended with the Reagan election.) Each period is identified by major shifts in national policy, and may or may not include new political parties.

The growing number of self-identified Independents indicates we're long overdue for another change. The 'Bagger movement may not last, but they've been far more successful than anything else that's come along to replace the old powers. And too bad Pres Obama and his crowd don't live up to being the Socialists the Right accuses them of. To me, they're just redistributing the wealth to different special interests - they're not about any real change.

roger — October 24, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 24, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.

But I don't have 'Prime', and never requested it. That's why I was bent about it. They did promptly return my money.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 24, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.

jacjak, I'm pretty sure the sign is referring to Turley, Stewart and the other two running for City Council. I know they are stupid and childish but I laughed my butt off when I saw it. That really has to frost him. Knowing him, there WILL be retaliation.

And what's this thing about tagging, my building got hit two nights ago. I'm going to have to paint over it. It won't come off with remover. I hate these guys, don't they have something better to spend their paint money on, like meth or something?

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kilroy Was Here

Graffiti is the original art - you can blame the cavemen for the urge to see a plain expanse as a canvas waiting for something to be put on it.


The little MFers are everywhere. I can't walk around the block without seeing where they've left their signatures. They're right up their with the utility companies spray painting the roads and phone poles.

roger — October 24, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 24, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.

Pretty much agree with you roger. Unfortunately, many times these special interests have nothing to do with the average citizen. Divided government is ideal for obvious reasons, but I hope the Dems take the House back and execute a left leaning agenda for a couple of years, unencumbered from this dismal do nothing but obstruct House we have. They are an embarrassment to our Nation.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, I just read the story about Benton with his stupid grinning face on the page. I don't know what it is, I just want to punch him in the mouth. What is that? He's soooooo creepy. You know how sometimes you see a person and you know instantly there's something not right?

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, I see sign for C. Crain in my area tagged with graffiti, none others in the group was touched.

As far as the tagging on you building downtown, there is a fine on anyone in the city limits if not removed. Also you can go to any of the police station ( I've been told) and file a report and also supposedly they will give you stuff to remove the tagging.

A few weeks ago, during the night someone decided to be cute and threw modeling paint all over my husbands pickup's tailgate and the entire passenger side. All the cops did was take a report even tho the qt can of the paint was found across the street from us.
The cost to remove the paint, replace tail lights, the trim around the windows and doors, stripping down the side cost our insurance co. over $2,500.

Just about 2 weeks before that happened to us, a neighbor a block away found that someone over night again, stole the drive train out of his pickup, left their tools, but cops just took a report. Nothing else. Neighbor and us were told no money to go further than just a report.

ELISI — October 24, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The hippies of the '60s/early '70s were an embarrassment to our Nation. Now they run the show in some places (western Oregon comes to mind).

I don't agree with the 'Baggers, or at least what they quickly became once they morphed into a national movement. But I do see them as a necessary transitional phase to something else - hopefully more representative. What people like you and I have to fear is that there's a real possibility this will finally become the political arm of the neoChristian Weltanschauungen - our favorite local David Madore being one of many cropping up all over the country. A couple of years ago it looked as though the 'Baggers had split with that crowd, but now I'm not so certain.

roger — October 24, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

...speaking of little MFers, our local wannabe killer/suicide boy made the NBC national news tonight. Tired of people blaming parents for this and yeah, that does need to be looked at, but not solely. It's this screwed up kid that knows right from wrong who chose to do this. And because someone called his friend gay? This is wrong on so many levels. Some people are just born bad. I think most of us have known one or two in our lives.

It inspired a rant...and I wanted to respond to MX's earlier post anyway. I know it's not popular in these days and times to be for gun control of some sort, (or is it) just tired of all the gun tragedies which seem to be happening on a daily basis.

Eleven years old? Knives were the thing to carry at that age (switchblades were the thing if you could get one, not that hard in Vegas) when I was growing up. No one got caught with a gun in my years of going to school until they were at least fifteen, and then the guy wasn't targeting anyone with it. Seriously. Times have changed.

mxfun118 — October 23, 2013 at 10:50 p.m.

More gun tragedy today both local and national. We'll never stop it, but we can mitigate it. If we as a country would only have an honest conversation about it.

I like guns. I like to look at them, hold them, and shoot them. Maybe it's a guy thing. I've got a .357 with a 6" lugged barrel and a short barreled 12 gauge with a vented ribbed barrel fitted with pistol grip. Been eyeing a new Beretta.

Again, I dig guns. I'm not anti-gun in the least. What I am "anti" about, is the NRA lemmings who refuse to have a responsible conversation about gun control. Simple measures to help prohibit mentally deranged folks, violent felons, and irresponsible people from legal ownership. You leave your weapon out, someone picks it up and shoots someone, you're denied that legal privilege for life. Something has to be done. Period. The wild conspiracy theories about government takeover and false equivalencies need to stop.

More importantly we need a meaningful national conversation about this.

As I said, I appreciate a nice roscoe, but I don't worship one. Therein lies the difference. Our culture has to change. It really hit me today as I looked for my favorite (and only) mainstream music magazine. They didn't have it. What they (Safeway) had was 26 different publications devoted to firearms. Guns guns and more guns. And the 26 didn't include magazines devoted to hunting and such. Just guns.

Unfortunately carrying one or two crappy guitar mags which carry more advertising than articles is the norm, as is the more than two dozen mags celebrating firearms. Out of balance, but no doubt the demand is there.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Our country would be better off if we focused more on music than the kick of a .44 mag. If only our cry were to be "You Can Take My Strat When You Pry It From My Cold Dead Hands", or motorcycle, or football, or fishing rod, or sewing machine or ... anything but.

Just tired of so much senseless killing in our "Constitutionally" driven society. Nothing's a cure all, but we can make a dent.

At least have an honest conversation.

Nice to get that off my chest.

I just wish I felt better doing so.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The hippies of the '60s/early '70s were an embarrassment to our Nation. Now they run the show in some places (western Oregon comes to mind).

Not in my mind roger-not at all.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

CVTV - League of Women Voters - City Council next at 7:00.

langenthal — October 24, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Howdy folks! Let me switch gear for a minute.

Which total moron and idiot in DC/ NSA had the bright idea to spy on Angela Merkel's cell? (just picking her as she is mine for better or worse and she IS power and the HEAD of a foreign gov and and she IS an ally).

Have the bright morons at the NSA lost the last of their few brain cells?

And when will we all start to finally get ticked off at the absolute loss of privacy? Do we have friends left after this round of idiocy? Are these morons in the NSA completely out of control?

Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

luvithere — October 24, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: I was wondering what you thought of Angela's cell phone hacking. I am glad she complained.

Here's an interesting twist on eavesdropping: A man seated behind an ex-CIA chief on the Acela train tweeted the former spy's conversation while he was having it.

Fascinating tweets. Bold move. Nothing is sacred. Former CIA operatives should never converse on a train. :)

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The best Doan has to offer is criticizing Burkman about lightrail as an alternate on C-TRAN. What a vision forward. Not!

Burkman gets the vote,

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Topper-young-energetic-real-motivated-visionary-good communicative skills-community engaged-collaborative friendly-someone you'd be proud to take home to mama. Solid business background. All-American in the 800 meter! :))

Stewart-campaigning for who? A stern lecturing attitude touting job experience. Nice accessorizing. A little difficulty with articulation.

Topper gets the vote,

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Eleven years old? Knives were the thing to carry at that age (switchblades were the thing if you could get one, not that hard in Vegas) when I was growing up.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.

Gees, how old are you?? When I was 11 boys were carrying little bags of puries, cat-eyes, steelies, aggies, and bowlers.

jacjak — October 24, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A fun voter's guide! Make sure you enter your zip code to get the local ballot measures.

Try it. You'll like it!

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Decker-childish-brings up Madore in his second sentence-chip on his shoulder-false narratives-fallacy driven-claims to be the adult in the room-HA!-has no neck-budget cuts and po-po improvement in same breath-yo-yo-starts every sentence with "I think" without doing so-states the obvious-one issue candidate-blaming others-thinks he's a tough guy-tied his laces on both shoes together and managed not to trip.

McEnerny-Ogle-Wouldn't be allowed to vote in Texas-forthright-involved with neighbors for decades (with no scandal!?)--advocate-future oriented-parks friendly

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stephanie Rice tweets that she is looking for persons who do not intend to vote in this local election. She is writing a story about typical low voter turnout in Clark County.

If anyone plans to sit on the sidelines and use your ballot for bird cage liner (what? someone here?), email her: stephanie.rice at columbian dot com.

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Turley- First off with CRC-fallacy driven-nice color schemes-vision 'bankrupt'-reminds me of a teacher I flipped off in high school-attitude-critical of DC-forgets where he is-CRCCRCCRC-a broken record-lectures-wreaks of old money-old-looks over his glasses-critical-sad-angry-touts WW 1 experience

Leavitt- Confident-visionary-eyebrow movement is disturbing-youthful-respects the arts-touting his Mayorship-plays well with others-a self proclaimed cheerleader-mockingly takes on Turley-knowledgeable-looking at his place in history (whaaa..?)-ego driven-speaks of self in third party(always creepy when someone does that)-chiding Turley-born politician-

Leavitt gets the vote,

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When I was 11 boys were carrying little bags of puries, cat-eyes, steelies, aggies, and bowlers.

jacjak — October 24, 2013 at 7:48 p.m.

It was pretty wild back in the day. From the eight grade on we had racially motivated riots on what seemed a weekly basis. A blind girl raped on campus by three African-Americans early on that year set the tone. Police presence was pretty constant. My first year in high School we had two cars overturned in the school parking lot and fire bombed. Some of this stuff would no doubt make national news if it were happening today. I have found bits and pieces on the net here and there chronicling it. Late 60's and early seventy-forced integration set off a firestorm.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Leavitt-Turley now one on one. CVTV

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou why would the Columbian even put that out. I would think they would be pushing people to vote. Its voter apathy that got Benton reelected last time. We have way to many people that won't exercise their rights. I look at it as a duty and a privelidge. It should be your duty to be informed. I try real hard to get my family and my guys to read, make a decision and vote. I don't care if they have the same views as I do at least have a view. And Nail if I see and hear about any more Tea Party people I am going to swing more to the left. Am I losing my mind. I think maybe you have some kind of Vulcan mind meld. I will put some of that blame on Hawkeye to. You both are starting to make more sense to me. Being a lefty won't kill me will it?

timerick — October 24, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Being a lefty won't kill me will it?

timerick — October 24, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.

Naw! As a matter of fact it's...liberating!

My youngest just turned 18 this October and she's excited about voting for the first time. It's great to see my kids get enthusiastically involved in the process.

"And Nail if I see and hear about any more Tea Party people I am going to swing more to the left."

I've gotta start posting more articles!

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit --- Topper adroitly addressed the negativity in the campaign. She was strong mentioning her background and education. Stewart - vote for me, I'm old.

McEnerny-Ogle has been working in the community for 27 [?] years not just since May. I can't picture Decker in a classroom day in and day out, maybe wrestling coach.

Burkman brought up the lies too and gave a strong, positive presentation. Decker and Doan were the best Madore could recruit for his pro-citizen team plus Turlay & Stewart.

I think Madore's safe word is "sovereign" or someone had a drinking game going.

langenthal — October 24, 2013 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 24, 2013 at 8:52 p.m.

I seems your takeaway was pretty much the same. I missed part of Burkman/Doan. Burkman always seems to be the adult in the room whenever I've seem him. Kinda like Stuart in that sense.

"I can't picture Decker in a classroom day in and day out, maybe wrestling coach."

I sure wouldn't let myself get underneath the guy!

Maybe Decker (after he loses of course) and Leavitt could put on an arm wrestling exhibition for a good cause and raise some money. We need some togetherness in this community. We're way too divided. No one in politics seems to have a friendly demeanor towards one another, let alone a sense of humor.

It's a wonder any of our youth would want to be a politician. We need to take one another with grain of salt, not a rock of animus.

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail it boils down to respect. And I don't see that anymore from any of our elected either here or in DC. And to be honest to myself I have to blame the Tea Party people. The old time Repubs at least tried to get along. Both sides would hash it out then go have dinner together.

timerick — October 24, 2013 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit --- I meant no disrespect to wrestling coaches.

If you recall when the C segregated us to the basement [or penthouse], some of us insisted on posts being based on fact or at least make an effort in that direction. Also, you frequently used humor clips and music. I think you can tip timerick from the dark side with more music and maybe, Carlin. That's along with your articles, of course.

langenthal — October 24, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey kids, another test just for fun. I got 10 out of 13.

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 10:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye --- That was fun. My results:

You answered 11 of 13 questions correctly.

You scored better than 91% of the public, below 4% and the same as 5%.

langenthal — October 24, 2013 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 24, 2013 at 10:36 p.m.

Good test hawkeye-

langenthal- Same score here.

timerick-In the spirit of langenthal's post a threefer. Kinison and a few others could bring tears from laughing so hard. Not everyone's taste but hope you enjoy.

Factoid: Sam was born in our very own Yakima and died a couple hours outside of Vegas. A blast from the past.

Sam on Letterman:

Wild Thing:

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 11:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting quiz there Hawkeye..

You answered 12 of 13 questions correctly.

You scored better than 96% of the public, below 1% and the same as 3%.

I got the judge one wrong..

ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 12:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit --- Kinison died several miles west of Needles, CA where I lived in 8th grade.

langenthal — October 25, 2013 at 12:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 25, 2013 at 12:06 a.m.

I remember it well. A senseless death from an idiot drunk driver. My Grandma died in the same fashion.

Man! Needles is one hot place. One of the few places that would be hotter than Vegas in the summer. I've been through there a few times, but it's been many years ago.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 12:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 12:05 a.m.

Yeah-But it wasn't supposed to be open book!

(kidding-please don't yell at me:)

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 12:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.

Interesting format. I even added my 2 cents worth.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 12:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit --- That's what I hear whenever I mention I lived in Needles - "I've been through there." If a person doesn't know Needles, I mention the scene in Grapes of Wrath where they cross the Colorado into Needles.

langenthal — October 25, 2013 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I got 12 out of 13, by sheer luck, the picture of the Yahoo ceo I got correct but it was a total guess.

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 12:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 12:24 a.m

You're grounded to the corner for today ;}

ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 5:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 12:59 a.m

Sebelius is head of health
Vonn is a skier
Davis is running for gov of Texas


ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 5:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. -- "Not in my mind roger-not at all."
That was a reference statement, not one I believe. I was told this by an upstanding citizen back in my college days when I was organizing a boycott of Gallo products at the local State Store (where wines and liquors were sold in PA) in support of Cesar Chavez and the UFW.

I am not a Repub (or a Dem), and about 95% of the time end up voting for the Dem candidate. But - once again - This dumping on the Repubs because of the recent shutdown is a very one sided view. I am going to continue to point out that this was asked for by the Dem leadership in Congress after Pres Obama was elected in 2008. Motivated by the previous Bush administration and the open hostility by VP Cheney and his clique, when it was time for serious business such as the ACA, the Dem leadership made it quite clear to the Repubs that their input was not desired - "We have a mandate" and "You had your chance - Now it's our turn." That spirit of compromise has been missing on both sides over the past two Presidential administrations. Sen Patty Murray is continuing this same approach right now - When the latest Budget negotiations were announced, she made it clear that a whole slew of items are nonnegotiable, and that the Repubs will (again) be blamed for failure if an agreement isn't reached. And while I am totally opposed to much of what Ryan stands for (such as privatization of Medicare), I cannot see how this inflexibility on the part of Murray is any different than what the 'Baggers have forced the Repub party to. It all comes down to (in my mind) that if we agree, then they're right, but if we disagree, then they're scum.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 5:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

11 may have been just a bit young, but a lot of us carried weapons in junior high back in the Wash DC area. I went to Thomas Jefferson Jr High in Arlington VA - There was open racial warfare during the '60s, especially during the time of the March and when Dr. King was killed. My choice was a car antenna. When I started high school at Washington and Lee - maybe 7 or 8 miles away from TJ, everything was peaceful - a completely different world. The weapons were frowned on by the student body as a whole, and quickly discarded by my group who came from TJ. A perfect example of how environment shapes our behavior.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 5:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jakjak, I carried both. Left pocket had the marbles and the right pocket had a stiletto. Tough hood.

Hawkeye Oct 24 6:27PM. I have said it before. He reminds me of what my folks used to remind me about. He seems to be the personification of a 'sneaky little ..." . Grins at you like the cat that got the cream look. You see the same look from celebrities who are always posed for their picture. He always looks as though it's a photo op. Grab a pencil or pen and look busy for the folks. Now smile and say cheese. After seeing him operate I would love to play poker with him. He has more tells than anyone I have ever seen. He would be easy pickins'.

A long time ago I had the opportunity to play poker with a bunch of lawyers. We all played together for about three years. Let's just say this. I could have made a decent living playing those guys.

Some of these politicians running for office today seem to fall in the same category. I think clinical psychologists would have a field day.

JohnCasey — October 25, 2013 at 5:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

By the time I was middle school we had settle in Idaho. There were very few fights in middle and high school that I remember. Middle, a black kid said something to a white kid about his mom, (not repeating it here) that ended in an out n out brawl. Took the principal, a male teacher and the boy's PE teacher to break it up.
High school fights were over girls, if it was a girl fight, it was over a boy.
All done with fists.
Guns at that time were hung in the back window of pick-ups, never brought into the school.
Knives, well yeah, boys had pocket knives.
There was very little of if any bullying. Schools now either look away and ignore bullying, or they say the victim has done or said something to cause it. IMO That is so BS!

ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 6:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"If anyone plans to sit on the sidelines and use your ballot for bird cage liner (what? someone here?), email her: stephanie.rice at columbian dot com."

manthou — October 24, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.

(my silly perspective)

Silly manthou...only the C is used as a bird cage liner only AFTER I've searched for anything that is actually news in between all the advertising, not the ballot. That is returned to sender once it's filled out!!! Most the time, the C is filled with purely speculative reporting on the part of the writer based on what they perceive as fact or word of mouth...OR it's "borrowed" news from another agency. Seems to be the trend of most if not all newspapers these days.

Besides, isn't "recycling" a good thing??? If it's not used as a birdcage liner, it definitely gets the woodstove going on a chilly morning.


goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 6:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding weapons in schools... (my perspective)

When I was in my youth, I wasn't concerned with weapons at all. Never saw any...never heard of anybody carrying anything. Middle School? Never anything going on that I can remember. In high school, the only problems happened off campus except for an occasional fisticuff behind the bleachers or across the street in front of the little cafe. I was more concerned with studies and graduating rather than who was carrying and who wasn't.

That's when the school districts had excellent supervision and staff who listened.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey @ 5:53 am: Could not agree with you and Hawkeye more on your gut impressions of Benton.

As for clinical psychologists and other mental health professionals who spend their lives observing, studying and helping to heal maladaptive human behaviors, I can tell you, politicians don't often fool them. Politicians like Benton reveal so much about themselves through their actions and words, just as their clients do.

For example, I sent Benton an honest, respectful request last week via email: Take the high road. Resign and be the hero in all this. Why did I bother? So I could give him a chance to reveal something more to me and the public, if he were so foolish to reply in writing. Persons who have good self-insight, good self-control would not have replied at all or would have replied with something polite, vague and innocuous ("Thank you for your suggestion", for instance) because they understand that any detailed response is public record and would likely become Exhibit A in Anita Largent's lawsuit or in the Press.

Benton gave me and the public a gold mine of self-incriminating BS.

Instead of being cautious, Benton's arrogance and certainty that he is beyond reproach allowed him to chastise me and present me with a long list of rationalizations and excuses that offer incredible insight into his and his cronies M and M's thinking errors with respect to his dubious appointment.

I can see the spit flying from his mouth, his face red, his voice harsh with rage and sarcasm. He can turn on the charm when he needs to, as in front of the PDC, but he is a deeply manipulative and mean-spritied man when backed into a corner, one who is a Master of bullying and threats as a way to control others and get his way.

Ann Rivers sees him in action and gets this and did a great job of exposing it a few months ago. Anita Largent, his supervisee, is not putting up with it, either. And we, the public who rely on him to be honest, open, and objective in his new DES Director position, should not put up with his evasive and abusive behavior, either.

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 24, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.

Nails, back in the 70's there were hippies...and then there were HIPPIES.

You'd have the long-haired freaky people...stoned out of their mind. Then there was the anti-government crowd who would protest anything just to protest and be destructive at any chance they could. You also had the communal living hippies...out to make a government of their own (possibly the politicians of today...8))...). There was also the free-spirited crowd - those who chose to educate themselves about everything around them and get high off of knowledge and nature (my crowd) rather than lighting up a reefer.

My point???

Labeling the hippie movement as the destruction of today's government is like labeling an entire race as problematic and evil because of a few bad seeds.

Just my two-cent's worth.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 6:25 a.m.

Respectful??? Telling someone to take a hike is respectful??? Not that your honesty in your request to ask someone to step down isn't unwarranted, but I'd hardly call that as showing respect for someone.

Just my thought.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Definition of "respectful"
1. feeling or showing deference and respect.

Definition of "deference"

1. humble submission and respect.

Definition of "respect"
1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

11 of 13. Never heard of the Google one, and picked the wrong stock market graph.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Back when I was in High School, there were no weapons allowed. It was an all boys school and every race available. I went to Benson in Portland. It was a privilege to go to that school and you had to work very hard to stay there. At least I did. Manners and grades and dress mattered. Back in the neighborhood things were different. We really didn't have to carry any weapons unless we were at the park late and St. Johns was coming for a rumble then it was baseball bats and rocks. Nobody died, ever. Unless it was a car accident, but that was rare.

hawkeye — October 25, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Re: Last night's candidate forum: Stewart didn't seem fully engaged or much interested during I know people have been questioning her commitment to the Council lately so maybe she's just bored or not impressed with her new friends. Clearly, she's the best of a bad bunch.

Another takeaway was the extreme contrast between Topper and McEnemy-Ogle's history of community service and the lack of such experience on the part (Stewart excepted) of the rest of Madore's team. I really think that's an important qualification.

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: There was nothing disrespectful in my request to Don Benton or in its tone or delivery. I was appealing to the part of him, if it exists, that puts the public good ahead of his ambitions and politics. His appointment was divisive and controversial and it has harmed Clark County. Employee and citizen morale and trust is about as low as it can go. Sometimes public servants respond favorably to errors they realize they made after the fact. When they do, it can enhance their credibility. I was hoping that there was a good angel on one of Benton's shoulders.

Some people have other complaints about other Clark County leaders, and they deliver their message in far less respetful ways than I ever do. Case in point: Carolyn Crain, Dick Sohn, Christian Berrigan, Ed Barnes for starters.

We all have an option to communicate how we feel about the job our government is doing. I work very hard at delivering my message in a way that allows the recipient to listen. How they respond, if they respond gives me good information.

Benton did not have to agree that my request had merit. He could have disagreed without being disagreeable. He could have ignored it. The response I got was angry and defensive and full of self-delusional rationalizations which is now in the public record.

My email to him is in the public record as well and will survive the civility test from most reasonable people. His, by comparison, won't.

If elected officials can take feedback from some of the angriest citizens in the country, they can certainly take it from mean, disagreeable old me. If my email to Benton was offensive, then he is much too sensitive to be a public figure. :)

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 25, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.

I went to high school in Maine, knives both fixed blade and folding were common place, we were required to wear them in the open, concealing was against the rules. Especially during October and November, rifles and shotguns were displayed in the rear windows of vehicles in the faculty as well as students parking lot.

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 7:35 a.m.

When you urge someone to resign as you did (referencing your post on October 21, 2013 at 12:27 p.m.), it's hardly due to the respect you have for the person or for what he stands for. Did you honestly expect him to tiptoe around it? In his response, he mentioned he wasn't taking the cowardly route. He also mentioned the comment that you need to gather your information from somewhere other than the Columbian. Manthou, he's been around awhile...probably has access to our information that you or I would shirk at...OR...he took a wild stab at it. Now that you have professed your letter to him, you have validated his assumption.

On another note, career politicians are seekers of swift action to gain a bigger foothold in government. Benton is no exception. If you want another example, then check out how many career politicians are taking up freeholder positions in the ballot...swift action to gain more control of the people. Sometimes you have to ask why it is they're so "involved" in everything government? It is my opinion that they know they're losing the battle and will do whatever it takes to regain that foothold and to eliminate voter freedom of choice.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou...a bit of an addition to my comment...

Now that you have professed your letter to him as manthou on the forum, you have validated his assumption. I don't doubt for a second that any person in government, whether it be a politician or the monitoring what we say here on the forum and would use it for whatever in the future.

It's scary times we live in. Just getting your name out there, voicing your concerns...can be used against you at any time. I believe freedom isn't what it should be...the freedom to speak our minds is at risk. We cannot hide from it, using our pen names and we definitely aren't immune to repercussions by using terms like "respectfully," "with all due respect," et cetera. They read between the lines and they do it very well. Everyone is suspicious...everyone thinks someone's out to get them.


goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey everyone...just a heads up, here. There's some major x-class solar flare activity on the sun, affecting GPS tracking systems. If you're using a GPS when out and about today, don't be surprised if it fails you.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In six days, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program will end. According to an article on Oregonlive, more people are living in poverty than they were 50 years ago. Tougher times are about to hit for many. If you have it in your heart as well as on your pantry shelves, donate to the local food banks and give to the food drives...if not with food, then try to donate some of your spare time or even pay it forward for someone, somewhere...a random act of kindness.

We have to stave off the perils starvation. We cannot always rely on the government.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

golden oldie: On any rationale respectively scale, politely asking Senator Benton to resign wouldn't move the needle. But to be fair or consistent, I'll look forward to see you share those concerns on other blogs you frequent, particularly those which routinely show their disrespect for those they disagree with by using such terms such as 'Communist Scum, Scumbag, and much much worse.

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.

Good comment. BUT:
Pigs flying these days?
Don't hold your breath. There are some people who support Benton 100%, no matter what.

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.

Fair enough, JohnK. I've actually been staying away from most of the blogs...some becoming too radical in their beliefs rather than being on the conservative or moderate side. In recent days, there was one article on Lew's site, blasting the C once again. I'd posted a comment directed to Carolyn Crain (totally off the subject but was my only way of contacting her), discussing the fact that one of her political signs on Mill Plain was tagged by someone. Automatically in her response, she made some reference to Steve Stuart's wife. I wasn't there to make a statement about the article and I did not. I immediately told her that I believe it wasn't a personal attack on her and that this was some wannabe trying to mark his territory. Carolyn admitted I was probably right.

Does that count as a start??? If it does, well JohnK, I've done it a few times to Lew already. It's his blog and he can say and do as he pleases. I make my comments...usually to no avail. I figured this is a public news site...I wasn't saying anything derogatory to manthou...just mentioning the verbiage was slightly misused and still stand by that statement (guess I was being the language police and felt the need to say something.)...8(

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 9:24 a.m

Nice burn, luvit. Too bad this girl isn't part of that "some people who support Benton 100%." Times change and so do political preferences. Just remember that next time you make such an assumption.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 25, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.

CRAP, could you please provide at least one name of a current politician who doesn't lie...who doesn't manipulate the system for personal gain??? Just one, please. I'll be waiting for luvit's flying pigs to zoom by at any moment.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: It isn't paranoia to be fearful of having your personal name and opinion out for anyone to see. It is a personal protective factor that many people, in the age of social media and citizen bloggers.

Too bad we sometimes don't exercise our free speech rights because we fear unfair retaliatory backlash. Sad, isn't it?

Public video comment or written communication to and from a public employee or public agency is public record and discoverable in court. I compose and present my communications, therefore, with that caution in mind and I hope I do not embarrass myself or show disrespect. The vast majority of the public are reasonable, respectful persons. We just tend to see and notice the angry outliers time and again, giving us the false impression that their numbers are high.

One thing I have to say in David Madore's favor: when he was getting hammered by Jeanne Harris during that "gavel down" episode, he conducted himself with the utmost respect and calm. The more she escalated, the softer his voice and demeanor became. It was brilliant. Who looked bad there? It wasn't the citizen commenter.

Too often, we witness angry diatribes by citizens. Even if the content of their communication is meritorious, we don't pay attention to it or give it credibility, because we are concentrating on their offensive style.

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.
I never see you call any of the liberals on here when they use offensive terms to describe conservatives. Contrary to what liberals would have you believe, conservatives have no monopoly on hate, just look at the facebook side and you will see most of the hate comes from the liberals. There have been conservatives who did, but they were banned, the editors don't seem to have a problem with hate from liberals.

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Too often, we witness angry diatribes by citizens."

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.

Are "we" putting ourselves on a pedestal? That "we" you speak of does the very same thing in accusations against others.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I am not perfect and I get angry on here, for sure. I am very hard on Madore, Mielke, and Benton in particular, just as you are on some of the pro CRC/LR politicians, and will likely continue to be on their case as long as they are in office. I trust you will do the same with your pet bugaboos.

When I write them directly, however, I am respectful, acknowledge they have a difficult job to do and thank them for their public service. They deserve some credit for their efforts and willingness to face citizen scrutiny daily. It cannot be fun. I wouldn't want the job.

Which leads me to the question: what type of personality is drawn to politics?

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"When I write them directly, however, I am respectful, acknowledge they have a difficult job to do and thank them for their public service. They deserve some credit for their efforts and willingness to face citizen scrutiny daily."

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 9:51 a.m

And where did you say that in the letter to Senator Benton???

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 9:37: I wasn't calling goldenoldie for her disrespectful language either here or elsewhere. As far as I know, she's always been capable of expressing an informed POV in a civil and engaging manner. She just needs a little work in the 'consistency between forums' department. :-) Were all my sins so easily correctable...

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

[If needed, I apologize for posting excessively lately. No intention of being a forum hog. It is the only place I post, and for some reason have felt inspired to do so.] (there I go again-justifying actions:)

I was thinking about race issues and reflecting on some forum commentary last night. It sounds like many of us were not only exposed, but forced to deal with racial tension on a daily basis at a young age. Personally, this shaped my view of our African-American community for many years to come. I'm not ashamed to admit, in light of my experiences, I was racist for many years. I had a black friend here and there, and one who was a close friend, but was able to separate that from my overall view of blacks in general.

It wasn't until I married the sweetest most understanding person on Earth, and diversifying my life's experiences, that over the last 20 years or so that I've done a 180. No "Jesus" moment, no sudden epiphany, and no event which caused this change of direction. Just working alongside with (and playing well) with others, living in foreign lands, and a lovely wife that centered me somewhat. (she's called me her rock & voice of reason for many years-she knows full well that door swings both ways, yet never mentions it. A treasure indeed-and yes, I let her know she is daily)

Anyway, sometimes we're not aware of internal prejudice, bias and racism when it's been ingrained from childhood. I had every reason to hate blacks. I went from attending a basically all white school, to attending one with forced, bused integration. 40% were now black. From the rape I mentioned, to watching blacks march down a brand new school's hallways and spit on them with contempt, to racial slurs, to fights-to full on riots-you name it. My Jr. High had it in..better not say it-Hearts! Clubs! Diamonds!:) No doubt they didn't want to be there as much as we didn't want them there, but that perspective was lost on me.

Of all my visuals from Jr. High, perhaps the one that sticks out most was this kick-ass cowboy redneck kid perusing the outside perimeter of our school on the last day of the year, all day long, with a full fledge bullwhip, cracking it and proclaiming any n----r was getting it if they got in his way. School authorities were aware but they chose to let it continue, most likely because of fear or agreement, and if they were even called, I'm sure local po-po's were frying bigger fish at the High Schools, in fact I know they were. And of course some of us felt as though this s---kicker was properly advocating for us.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My point is, I think, that we are shaped from life experiences. That being the case, we need to open up and allow ourselves to view life through a different lens. Whether it concerns race, the homeless, the disenfranchised, the imprisoned, the poor, our neighbors, ethnicity, battered women, whatever it is, even conservatives, ;) don't turn away, but rather embrace the situation with a clear head before enacting judgements.

I thought this conversation the other day was fascinating and thought to share. So many times when we hear racism charges, we either pull back or point the finger in the other direction.

The following conversation is needed in my opinion. Frank, honest and opinionated.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

You assumed this was all directed at you. My comment was about people who will always support Benton no matter what - and about those who use terrible words like Lew does on his blog to talk about those who disagree with him. I have the feeling that if you were to chide him on his use of words, you would be kicked off.

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

(my perspective)

Prejudice in any form...a tragic human trait. Anyone who says they haven't a prejudice bone in their bodies...haven't faced the truth in their lives.

RE: the video on your 10:05 post, it happens not only to the current president. It is something that has gone on for centuries. There's no political labeling to say one side does it more than the other. It's sad, but it happens and the fact remains...when it's convenient to point out the faults of one side of the political ticket when you are on the other side, it is political prejudice.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

This type of hate has ONLY happened with this first black POTUS. To equate hate with any other, to include on the left for Bush, is shallow and disconnected in my opinion.

No gold star for you today! :)

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I end all my emails to all public officials and politicians with "thank you for your public service." I replied to Benton's email to me with a thank you for his time, that I realize he is busy. I wished him "Best of luck." My first email asked him to consider his resignation and why.

You are most exhausting and try to extend an argument way past its life. This one is dead.

Go pick a fight with holyc or nail. They like doing that with you better than I do.

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

There is no more "hateful" comments about Obama than Bush, Clinton or Reagan. You should realize that MSNBC is not real news. Chris Mathews is not a journalist, he is a commentator and a purveyor of hate. Read the comments on any political article, it is not the conservatives calling for the imprisonment or execution of the opposition.

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Go pick a fight with holyc or nail. They like doing that with you better than I do.

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 10:44 a.m.

Thanks manthou-sheesh :(

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Childern we are not playing nice in the yard today. I for one will be glad when the votes are counted no matter which way it goes. It might make the yard a safer place for awhile.

timerick — October 25, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

Nails, you're so cute when you perceive I am incorrect yet I have proof otherwise. I don't need the gold star for the day. That is not my intent.

Was it disrespectful when Lane Hudson, former campaign worker for the Democratic party to heckle Clinton regarding his speech on the DADT policy???

And what about GW Bush's State of the Union speech in 2006 which was interrupted by Democrats in order to to applaud and cheer their obstruction of Bush's proposal to reform Social Security? Was that not disrespectful?

Don't try to make it a race card issue, Nails. It's more than that. People in general are rude when they are steadfast in their political beliefs.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 10:44 a.m.

Not picking a fight. Just noting the discrepancies in your statements as I do others as well.

Funny when someone has an opposing view to mine, they quickly pull out the pity party play, trying to make me look like the bad one.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.

tsk, tsk...nails!!! Sucking up to manthou isn't cute. I merely noted a discrepancy...something I noticed as a typical reaction by more than just one on here.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.

Luvit, although you had impeccable timing, I wasn't taking it to mean it was just me. I merely reacted to the comment. You take it any way you wish. That's your choice.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 25, 2013 at 10:54 a.m.

Holypeabrain, seems you are allowing Leavitt to be a sell out yet you chastise me because I was unconvinced by either side in order to show support in the political world. I'd ask and make statements regarding each side yet all you have done is gone on the personal attack against me, even though you claim you don't against me and my family members.'s okay for Leavitt, an elected leader of our pull a sham on the voters and get away with it...all at the same time he's with a company that has a strong connection with TriMet (which came out late in the game)...

and you have the audacity to say to me what you have said while blatantly lying in many of your posts???

Is this what the liberal side is like??? Sure seems that way. Convince me again why I should think the way you think, peabrain.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And I'd asked you before, provide at least one name of a current politician who doesn't lie...who doesn't manipulate the system for personal gain??? Just one, please. I'll be waiting for luvit's flying pigs to zoom by at any moment. I think Manthou is right when she said it takes someone with a certain personality type to get into politics...most likely some DNA defect or brain-matter issue.

Peabrain, I never said I thought it was right for any politician to lie, cheat, steal or pull a sham. NO ifs and or buts. Got it??? Probably not but you don't see my ballot. You haven't a clue as to the real me and who I vote for. I've stated many times that I loathe political corruption and I trust NO politician. It is wrong and I refuse to ever vote again for any person who has done any of the aforementioned.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 25, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.

Tim, life isn't a playground. When you let your guard down, you'll get stomped on.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie-I was about to post this and saw your latest statements....I can see you were very clear after all. And your post about my statement to manthou was sorely displaced. I was disappointed with her statement throwing me in the mix. The opposite of "sucking up".

You're back into your old habits that have never been that far in the distance. You have a lot of good to say, but seemingly, you just can't resist the slings and arrows.

I'll post it anyway.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

"RE: the video on your 10:05 post, it happens not only to the current president. It is something that has gone on for centuries. There's no political labeling to say one side does it more than the other."

goldenoldie- I was a bit taken back by your response, and perhaps my statements and the vid was misunderstood by you. If so I apologize for the "disconnect & shallow" statement.

The vid wasn't about "political labeling", but rather the ongoing vitriol the right displays with regard to (in their minds) our President's heritage, color, and patriotism.

When Bush and others have been criticized, and I'm speaking of elected public officials by and large, there has never been a time I'm aware of that another President was accused of being something different than the rest of us. Never have they challenged a President's American birthplace or heritage, interrupted a presidential address to Congress with "you lie!" or any other accusatory words, never have they referred to a President as a "tar baby" a "Kenyan", never have they not accepted a President at his word with his faith in God and accused him of being a Muslim or other, and so on. It's unprecedented. Bush was criticized heavily after his fumbling with 9/11 and Iraq. Fair enough. But I don't recall any Dem politician questioning his patriotism, saying he was in fact trying to bring America down because inherently he was a communist, trying to subvert and bring the downfall of our nation. Wrong on substance yes. If there were any they were extremely isolated. This is personal with Obama. No ifs ands or buts, and much of it based in racial bias in my opinion.

Just with the real dynamics and demographics involved, these accusations in the past with other Presidents would have been so laughable on their face, it would have been utterly absurd. It should be laughable now. But we had a President so pressured from the opposite party, he was actually compelled to bring forward his birth certificate. A sad day.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As I said, these type of personal demeaning accusatory insults haven't existed at this level before. A good % of Republicans not only question if Obama was born here, but make references to him being born in Kenya, illegal, not a truly elected President. A good % of evangelicals believe he's the anti-Christ.

And after you said you viewed the vid, which clearly separated these very points I've just made, your points did indeed, seem shallow & disconnected.

Again, if I misunderstood you, or you misunderstood the vid, then you have my apologies.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Geesh step away from the forum for half the day and the fuglies starts.
Do I have to place everyone against the wall with nailingit?
nail, I thought I told you to go to your corner this morning? LOL

No recess for anyone today..bad, bad,..shame, shame..oh and no figgy pudding either!

ELISI — October 25, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 25, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.

Holyfailure, you need to refrain from your distorted, brainless attacks. As I've said several times before and will again state now...I never voted FOR Madore. You are confusing me with someone else, bubba. You will vote for Leavitt??? How could you? You don't even live in Vancouver...unless you're lying in order to cast an illegal ballot. That wouldn't surprise me, Mister Freeworld Biker Boy on his Funky Moped named Harley.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.

A bit of a misunderstanding, here. My point was that disrespect to our president isn't something new. It doesn't matter if it's because of race, sexual orientation or any other subject. It happens. The question of Obama's birthplace was his family's own doing as well as the fact that Hawaii was a new state with new laws implementing. Proving citizenship to Hawaiians as US Citizens was in question. Because of his reluctance and pressure by the people, he was forced into proving himself as a US Citizen, much like McCain would have to because he was born in Panama. You think McCain wouldn't have had to go through the same scrutiny as president???

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 1:25 p.m

A large number of liberals armed with a fake study were claiming the Bush was too stupid to be President, These things happen, it is not racism, it is overboard politicism. Much like the 50,000 plus liberals that have signed a petition to have Congressional Republicans imprisoned or executed for voting contrary to the Presidents wishes. If you want to compare nut cases right now the liberals have more than the conservatives. Democrats have been just as disrespectful of Republican Presidents, and the great thing about this country is, that it is a guaranteed right.

frobert — October 25, 2013 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Funny...some on here who chastise Lew Waters (a man on a mission to help veterans) for having his OWN blog, putting on HIS blog what HE wants to say with impeccable accuracy...most likely because of the fact that his comments would be deleted on the C...

And he's the one pointing out how the majority of the people on the C really are.

You who have such hatred for people like Lew...thanks for proving his point! Your true colors are showing. You're quite transparent.

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 25, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.

Such strong words. Hate.

I don't "hate" Lew, I dislike him and call him a hypocrite but I don't hate him. Lew is one of those guys that complains about the government but still expects his Social Security check every month and whines if there is a problem with his Medicare. When we both posted on the "C", we would have heated discussions and he was a master at twisting my words around to fit his argument. To me, that's dishonest. If you want to like him, have at it but don't believe for a minute he cares about you or what you say.

hawkeye — October 25, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stepping in where there seems to be a little quicksand, and maybe the horse is dead already anyway...

When someone says "with all due respect", it does not necessarily follow that there IS respect, but when saying something, especially a differing opinion, it gives both the person saying it and the person hearing it advantages. The sayer can present something perhaps difficult or of opposing viewpoint, and the hearer is forwarned that what is to follows may warrent closer listening, or that a criticism, evaluation, or judgement is forthcoming. Had the same sayer said something like 'I think highly of you, but...", or " I respect you, but..." then it could be different in meaning.

You can speak with your enemy or someone you do not respect at all, just as any Secretary of State can tell you, and still speak respectfully while not respecting who they are, or what they stand for, or what they've done. What is the point to parsing a word for additional connotation? Unless it's to force a concession or or an arbitration to the original statement.

I don't get it...

jacjak — October 25, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC I think that Lew Waters is excesive in his politics at least to far for me. I met Lew before I even knew he had a blog. We met a few times at Veterans functions. The man has worked very hard to support Veterans. And I respect all the work he has done and continues to do. In all of us there is some good and we should not judge by one set of actions. That is what is wrong about this whole political mess that surrounds us now. And it would be a pretty dull world with out people like Lew. I find him entertaining at times and he even makes sense once in awhile. I look at him like the polar opposite of Temple Lentz who I don't agree with to much but find entertaining also. And even she makes sense sometimes.

timerick — October 25, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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hawkeye — October 25, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 25, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.

Exactly. Which is why I check both their sites occasionally. There's always something to be gained. Using sources from one political perspective only give a skewed picture, and is what's led to this "we're right, they're wrong, and don't bother me with details" mentality..

roger — October 25, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

could only happen in Kansas (or so I hope)-the state is suing a sperm donor for child support. Lesbian couple inseminated his sperm, got pregnant, split up, she can't work, blah, blah, blah.

"The attorney said on Friday that the contract his client says he drew up with the couple was central to the case, and said the state was persecuting Marotta to send a message about traditional family values."

Great theater from the buckle state of the Bible Belt. This is the state educators warned the state legislature it would become difficult to attract teachers if they forced the public schools to teach biblical creationism.

for what it's worth, from what little I've read, Waters is nothing more than a political hack, pandering to a dumbed down base. And he has a lot of company-lots of panderers out there. After all, sensationalism beat journalism every time. "where's the beef??!!" "Read my lips??!!", etc

mrd — October 25, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Free speech, but only when my friends approve:

Madore reports, on FB, that Sharon Nasset called him, very upset over his published opinion (on against her favorite third bridge option on the West Side. You see, Madore favors the East side option and really, really hates the I-5 option, the only one sanctioned by Oregon, who may or may not forge ahead.

So, like any good "friend", he gave up his free speech rights to appease Nasset.


Someone please explain Nasset's power over some Clark County politicians, when she lives and works in Portland?

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Whatever people think of Waters, you gotta admire the man's ability to talk out of one side of his mouth applauding the actions of Bachmann and Cruz for hijacking WWII Vets for partisan political purposes while from the other side he criticizes Clark Co Vets for 'politicizing' veterans by presenting Leavitt with a certificate of appreciation.

JohnK — October 25, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Too smart for what? Exactly?

I thought with your ego that you'd jump at the chance to put your mug on the big screen. Who cares about the pay, YOU COULD BE IMMORTALIZED, Think about it, I know you are. You could show off your t*ts. (insert your own vowel)

hawkeye — October 25, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, there is no hate for Lew here on my end. He is entitled to his opinion, absolutely. I might disagree with lots of it, but it is his. I am referring to the words he uses to describe people who disagree with him. In particular, liberals. It seems to get worse.

Seems to be getting worse nationally, however. It doesn't solve anything, gets the sides even more apart, turns into a tit-for-tat, and then what? Sure doesn't help to solve any of the problems.
(Thought I sent this an hour ago, but captcha got me stuck)

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wish all candidates for office would put out a website like the one Anne McEnerny-Ogle has. She discusses all relevant issues intelligently and in detail, giving examples for all her major points. I know pretty much where she stands on just about everything. She's out there in the community running on her own merits. And she's got an extremely long history of neighborhood and community involvement - She's obviously not in it just to build a resume. All in all, a quite impressive lady who I'd definitely vote for if I lived in city limits.

At the opposite end is Alishia Topper. She's running on a gimmick slogan "Let's Get To Yes". She identifies which issues she's interested in, but gives almost no detail on what she will do about them. She's involved in the community, but it's almost entirely on various committees that lead me to believe her goal was to get connected. Both her website and her facebook page say a lot, but say nothing. Everything I see and read screams plastic (as in superficial). I'm sorry, but this lady leaves me cold.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I was in a store on Main Street today and the proprietor launched into a similar description of Anne Ogle, who helped him on an important project. He, however, can vote for her. :) I always describe her as someone who rolls up her sleeves and works beside folks, donating her time and smarts. She has been doing it for a long time here. I intend to be at Anne's victory party in November.

I know Jeanne Stewart and like her immensely. She is approachable and thoughtful, even though we have disagreed on some issues. She listens. She has donated so much of her heart and soul to Vancouver. She has lost her fire, though, and has already conceded loss, I think. It was a huge blow to her when the police and fire unions endorsed Alishia Topper. And Madore's endorsement and lumping her together with the less experienced Doane, Decker, and Turlay, has hurt her, too. She is associated with the losing slate of candidates, from my perspective. Maybe I am wrong. We'll see.

roger, so how has your experience been in running for Freeholder? Have you gone to any of the meet and greets in District 2?
nailingit: I am watching Alec Baldwin's show for the first time. He is doing a great job of interviewing Chris Matthews. Have you seen it? I have been focusing on local issues so much that I am lost with national issues lately. I can only juggle so many anxiety balls at once.

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


To be honest, I have no clue. I'm not going to meetings where I'm told I have 30 seconds to speak. And I'm not going to the little gatherings sponsored by Liz and Ann, where they'll educate us on what a freeholder does. I'm also refusing to answer questionnaires that ask my political party (none) and my stand on the CRC (guess). Which means I answer e-mails from individuals, chit chat here, and engaged in a brief exchange on another website (which immediately prompted Nails to recommend several brands of flea sprays and deodorants). The Dem party has endorsed Paul Dennis, and David Madore is for Dimitry (who hasn't filed his nondisclosure forms - ????).

What I'm counting on is that the average voter is paying absolutely no attention to any of the discussions on this topic. I want the vote of that person who opens the pamphlet, notes that the majority of the candidates are busy preaching god, motherhood and apple pie, and settles on me because I actually say something related to the charter itself.

Frankly, I've become quite disenchanted with the whole issue. It's become very clear that there will be two main factions sitting around that table - Dems against Repubs - a continuation of the local wars. I'll be more than a little surprised if anything comes from it. We don't compromise and work together here any better than in Oly or back in DC.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(which immediately prompted Nails to recommend several brands of flea sprays and deodorants)

roger — October 25, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.

It was just a gentle admonishment roger, about laying down with dogs and getting fleas, (after a dialogue on Water's site) and joking about flea-tick collars on sale at Pet Smart. No deodorant, no sprays, and no brands mentioned. (I still go for the green Speedstick myself)

It's politics. You have to make yourself and your positions known if you're serious about it. People would like a general sense of not only where you stand on issues, but who you are as a person. You no doubt could offer some educating yourself at these little gatherings. Tell them what you know and think.

Tell them nailingit endorses you! (man, it's almost as creepy to speak of oneself in third party avatarially then it is in person, how does Leavitt do it?)

You know I support you. I really do hope you make it in. By jove, I think I've got it!

"We don't compromise and work together here any better than in Oly or back in DC."

There's your platform; compromise! Run with it. Feed off the many who are sick of divisive politics. You need a slogan. the first one is free, after this...

(substituted 'Columbia River' for 'Missouri')

"I was losing interest in politics, when the repeal of the Columbia River Compromise aroused me again. What I have done since then is pretty well known."


Leave em' bewildered. Abe won't care. He's dead. And it worked for him.

Next one will cost you.

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 25, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.

I've watched bits here & there. A really relaxed format. Kinda nice. That said, he oughta dial up his daughter and spice it up a bit! :))

nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

i can read your posts and get current on everyone's posts....i don't have the patience to read "some" opinions anymore. thanks.

ANYway.....can you give me lew's URL? i didn't know he had a blog.

yo're a freeholder? you were voted in to do that freeholder thingie..? CONGRATS if yes.

we agree on stewart. she's been the only bright light in a looonnng string of dim bulbs. without her, i'd have a very pessimistic view of The Council. like, they're bought and paid for by interestss other than the voters.

i agree that all this name-calling is just making everrything worse. what would you recommend to help the situation? i'm a conservative libertarian, and i get some REALLY OBNOXIOUS, really disgusting attacks. unfortunately, these are the norm.

MRD: "for what it's worth, from what little I've read, Waters is nothing more than a political hack, pandering to a dumbed down base. And he has a lot of company-lots of panderers out there"

could that be because you're reading only things that agree with your already-formed opinion?

DeeLittle — October 26, 2013 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OH, MY....

this is in relation to search and seizure of a reporter's home. her private notes and files were taken, based on a search warrant that was issued to look for illegal weapons.

"Maryland state police and federal agents used a search warrant in an unrelated criminal investigation to seize the private reporting files of an award-winning former investigative journalist for The Washington Times who had exposed problems in the Homeland Security Department's Federal Air Marshal Service.

"Reporter Audrey Hudson said the investigators, who included an agent for Homeland's Coast Guard service, took her private notes and government documents that she had obtained under the Freedom of Information Act during a predawn raid of her family home on Aug. 6.

"“Essentially, the files that included the identities of numerous government whistleblowers were turned over to the same government agency and officials who they were exposing for wrongdoing', Mrs. Hudson said.

"

DeeLittle — October 26, 2013 at 12:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle: Prosecutors, the DOJ, and law enforcement have enjoyed a cozy, unchallenged mutual protection and admiration society for so long. They often collude and misrepresent, harming the reputation of those crime fighters who are ethical (they do exist) and harming innocent citizens and constitutional protections. I wish we, as a public, would demand more checks and balances, transparency, and accountability from legal/law partnerships in the US.

Press Talk: This entire election in Vancouver, not just the mayor's race, is a referendum on David Madore and his politics, a battle to regain more cooperation and collaboration in Clark County's largest and most powerful city. If Madore's favorite candidates win (Turlay, Decker, Doan, Stuart) as a full slate, Vancouver's promising future is in trouble. My prediction (as if it means anything)? "Madore's 4" will lose. The closest race will be between Turlay and Leavitt, however.

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for the heads-up on the flick, hawk. The lure of fame and fortune isn't enough to bring me out of retirement though ☺

Drift — October 26, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's endorsements for Freeholder:

langenthal — October 26, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I had not seen Madore's Freeholder favorites. He is pushing very hard against adding more commissioners in a new charter. He used the RSN and SWBH network as an example of how busy he is (although he tries to imply by association that he is responsible for this network's looming independence from reliance on local funding). I wonder, if the number of commissioners is increased by two or four, he will resign, citing that the workload is impossible. One can hope.

There is a clash of cultures going on between Vancouver (and to a lesser extent, the cities of Camas and Ridgefield) and rural Clark County. Us city dwellers are not up in Yacolt or Washougal, trying to re-fashion them into our idea of Utopia, so I wish the folks who love country living would stop trying to mold the urban areas into their vision of perfection.

We can co-exist and celebrate and preserve the differences: makes the region interesting and diverse. Instead, we have a fight-to-the-death struggle playing out symbolically and literally in this local election.

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

They've lost the war on pot, so they're cracking down in other places. I'm going to need a couple extra hits just to deal with the pain of government overreach.

///FDA recommends reclassifying Vicodin as harder drug//

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 26, 2013 at 7:35 a.m.

Thanks. Pretty much a look at who not to vote for.

District 3 has the potential to become an all out circus.


[roger-pay no attention to the broad-grinned soulless entity yanking strings behind the curtain-you can do this]

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Great. The bastidges are trying to take both my plants (cannabis) AND my script away. I've been taking Vicodin daily for well over ten years now. I can't inadvertently O.D. on them. My head would be in the toilet long before I reached 4,000mg.

I know! I'll just start going down to the street corner and buy heroin!

Drift — October 26, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

re: Lou's column


I didn't realize the race was about a county representative. one with an ANTI-crc stand. that IS the hated madore's position, right...? to stand with the people's wishes, not just become portland-north...right...? to keep vancouver what the people who LIVE HERE want it to be instead of ore & wa developers with deep pockets...right....?

and all this time i thought the mayor's race was about a lying pro-light rail candidate who got himself elected then immediately changed his mind about tolls.

silly me.

DeeLittle — October 26, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal @ 7:35: Madore and his people seem to think their promises for transparency and openness in government don't extend to publishing a non-sourced web page promoting a group of secretly arrived at endorsements made by an anonymous group of people unwilling to share either the process, their names, or their funding sources.

bunch of secretive made and paid for by an anonymous group of individuals

JohnK — October 26, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- I mentioned the same to my wife. Taking more than prescribed stirs a natural stomach pump.

Regarding the Washington Times article: We should take a breath and see if it's true. So far only InfoWars and the Times have picked this up from what I can tell.

The Washington Times (especially since the shake-up) just appeals to the Tin Foil Hat crowd imo.

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 7:55 a.m.

It's a mistake to consider West Vancouver the voice of the city. About the time you cross Andresen the focus changes to what's along the I205 corridor. The area around Mill Plain from the hospital east to 164th has more relevance to most people here. We are a different world; a Suburbia where the big box churches flourish, softball leagues and high school sports are considered entertainment, and where a short drive will allow people to choose between the box stores like Costco, WallyWorld and Winco, or the socially conscious stores like Trader Joes, World Market and Whole Foods.

I used to wonder why Royce Pollard never came back and tried to annex our Orchards/Sifton area legally after stopped in 2006. I think the answer lies with that screwed up way City Council is elected - by position rather than by district. Given the boom in development we had here around that time, there would have been a real risk of a Council being elected that doesn't hold those ties to the old downtown.

I wonder if there's any chance of a secessionist movement in the future, with the incorporation of a new city of East Vancouver? Just food for thought.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frankly, I've become quite disenchanted with the whole issue. It's become very clear that there will be two main factions sitting around that table - Dems against Repubs - a continuation of the local wars. I'll be more than a little surprised if anything comes from it.

roger — October 25, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.

While what you say is true, there are those, me included, who tried to vote choice of freeholders from across the D-R boundry. The reasoning is so ideaology does not drive the engine. Should just 1 party have the lion's of say in how the Charter is written, the voters will just vote it down and nothing will change anyway, exactly as you say. It will only work w/ some semblence of balanced representatives. Both parties are doing their best to tip the scales on this. So looked for who talked about things besides bridges, like how many commissioners, or how boundry votes would work, etc. Anyone Madore recommended was off the table (extreme or easy to influence?? Don't know, but did not take the chance) as was those already holding public office (already has community obligation). Not sure of my logic, but with 25 to learn about, had to start somehow.

jacjak — October 26, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 26, 2013 at 8:59: I think the Mayor and all the Vancover Council Members, except for Stewart, already live on the East side of town. I like the idea of council members representing specific districts and restoring the imbalance and inequities of the present system as you suggested, but that might be tough sell on the East side.

JohnK — October 26, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 26, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

Hansen lives in West Minnehaha neighborhood and is active in neighborhood association.

Leavitt lives on Ellsworth.

langenthal — October 26, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 8:59 am: Why so ready to secede? So much talk of that nationally, too. We need to find a way to celebrate and honor the diversity that is Clark County and Vancouver, as trite and hokey as that sounds. Everyone is into protecting their little world, I get that. But why is there such a push to change and deny "the other"? Kinda like a warped ethnocentricity: missionaries going into the native populations and changing it rather than simply observing and respecting the culture that is already there.

I enjoy having access to all those great stores on the East side and all the beauty and quiet in the rural parts of Clark County. I live where it suits me best, though, but don't tell me my choice is wrong. It just might be wrong for you or others, but many people like what downtown/uptown living offers them.

It is an absolute myth that we can live independently of each other and that includes the Portland metro area. We all need to work well together, take advantage and protect the differences and opportunities of each area, or the whole shebang comes to a standstill, which is happening more and more as folks circle the wagons and build the fortress to keep the evil out. We usually figure out the importance of teamwork in times of crisis, and we're getting there.

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou are we getting there? Why Pollard wanted to annex out east is known only to him. At that time we did not have the resources in the city to service the eastside. I still think they get the shaft on a lot. My personal thought on that move is it was done to keep Camas out. If you notice the eastside even has there own Chamber of Commerce. They run independently from the downtown Chamber. I would have liked to see someone from the eastside run for some of these offices. Maybe several someones. The old money downtown needs to step aside and let people from the east come and use their talents. It just might be a big improvement.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift-anyone-A refreshing article dealing with pot usage.

///Science for stoners: What is marijuana “abuse?”///

But, as marijuana’s legal status changes, should the framework for what constitutes “abuse” change, too?  Is a recreational user of marijuana like the social drinker, using not abusing, indulging a vice but not committing a crime? Advocates of marijuana legalization often, on one hand, point out that the negative social impacts of alcohol are far worse than those of marijuana, which are barely detectable outside of use by minors. Yet, when looking to regulate marijuana use, laws and systems governing alcohol use remain a basic framework for what legalized marijuana laws should look like. The pharmaceutical industry is the other framework.

Pharmaceuticalization under medical use and/or handing marijuana to the vice industry are paths that integrate marijuana into the culture and society with limited threat to the status quo. Both categories already fit into the cultural paradigm. But the attempt to fit marijuana into one of these categories may interfere with our capacity to properly regulate it, which is what has occurred under its current misclassification as a schedule 1 drug.

Marijuana does not “fit in” as tidily as sound bites and political messaging require. Marijuana can act as a medicine, but it is not a pharmaceutical. Marijuana is an herb, yet its psychoactive effects set it apart from willow bark or Echinacea. And it is fundamentally different from alcohol in its personal and social impact, even when used in excess.

Our brains are habituated to compare and contrast, to try to figure out what something is by finding familiar reference points. So far, the best analogy for marijuana seems to be the wine industry, which involves botanist artistry and consumers who run the gamut from winos to the a-glass-with-dinner crowd; both products invite connoisseurship. But even that analogy is about the market, not the product.


Just as it’s not yet possible to pinpoint marijuana’s place in consumer society, we don’t yet know who is abusing it as it approaches legalization. So, taking for granted that any use by minors is undesirable, who are the marijuana abusers now? One might think first about the stereotype of the stoner on the couch, doing little and wanting less — other than to get more stoned? However, as the Marijuana Policy Project’s recent list of influential people who use or have used marijuana shows, marijuana itself doesn’t produce apathy or take away a person’s will. However, it can make the loss of that will more comfortable. Using marijuana for such reasons won’t earn anyone a merit badge, but is that really recreational use?

Read more @

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And happened to come across this current article. Things are getting better as the veils are lifted. Still a long way to go.

///Marijuana Compounds Can Kill Some Cancer Cells: Study///

A scientist in the United Kingdom has found that compounds derived from marijuana can kill cancerous cells found in people with leukemia, a form of cancer that is expected to cause an estimated 24,000 deaths in the United States this year.

"Cannabinoids have a complex action; it hits a number of important processes that cancers need to survive," study author Dr. Wai Liu, an oncologist at the University of London's St. George medical school, told The Huffington Post. "For that reason, it has really good potential over other drugs that only have one function. I am impressed by its activity profile, and feel it has a great future, especially if used with standard chemotherapies."


Liu told the Seattle PI's Pot Blog that he hopes to start clinical trials involving humans in 12 to 18 months.

Read more @

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Interesting study. Wouldn't that be the icing on the cake? Marijuana is the prevention and cure for cancer. We'd have a whole lot more mellow, cooperative and cancer-free people out there.

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There are usually conflicts between a city core and the outlying sectors. But here, any thought of "oneness" was crippled by the CRC project. To make a sweeping generalization (which I believe is true), many of us said to can the grand edifice that was being planned back in the 2008 time frame - we need a simple bridge with low tolls that won't bankrupt commuters. Others wanted to do away with the light rail component, and have dedicated bus or BRT lanes. And a few other ideas. We were told our input wasn't desired - this is about the downtown area, and the opinions there were all that mattered. A couple of years later we have Mayor Leavitt and sidekicks trying to push for a C-Tran vote restricted to that area. And then we have the variable tolling, the no improvements for the I5 past the Marine Drive exits, and a couple of other things that said what we want or think we need is irrelevant - just pay up and shut up.

I've been saying for a few years - we'd be better off if we plow everything south of 8th Street under and turn it over to the Port for expansion. If you want to get the old downtown revived to the days of the brewery and whatnot, then look toward the Port and light industry - not someone's scheme to replicate a fancy section of Portland. (I think that project is nuts anyhow - too cold, wet and windy along the riverfront all but a few months of the year.)

Mayor Pollard was exercising his version of Manifest Destiny back in 2006 when he annexed the Burnt Bridge area, and tried to rope in Orchards and Sifton (stopped by County because we hadn't voted on it). He said publicly that he wanted to make Vancouver one of the largest cities in the state, because he believed that would increase our influence in Olympia. Old Royce didn't understand that no matter how big we got, we'd still be that crowd from the wrong side of the tracks.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was looking forward to a (pending?) discussion involving timerick, manthou & roger. (or anyone who's lived here awhile) about succession/territorial inclusiveness. I approached this subject somewhat @ nailingit — October 21, 2013 at 9:22 p.m., and in the abstract @ nailingit — October 25, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. (is this third person speak? Yikes! {:-O)

Informed nutshells can help to understand the dynamics of local communities. Being somewhat new here, it's obvious to me this community is divided much more than others I've lived in. Anyway, whether it comes to fruition or not, an interesting premise for discussion nonetheless.

roger-Just saw you were addressing this while posting-hope it continues with others

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A major problem with chemotherapy is that eating and keeping food down is very difficult. Worse still, a common situation is that anything you ate that was still in your stomach when you went in for chemo moved from the "can eat" to "can't eat" column - something we learned from the Cancer Center staff. My wife was taking four different anti-nausea medicines, which were rarely effective. She'd lost at least 50 pounds and was literally starving to death. One of the nice people there just happened to opine one day that many people find marijuana helps a lot of people overcome the chemo sickness to the point where they can keep food down. It worked with her. It didn't cure her lung cancer, but may have slowed it down some - she lived a lot longer than most do.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm watching Gary Moore perform Red House on Palladia. We lost him recently. For those who aren't familiar with his work, and those that are, enjoy. A consummate professional with a searing tone most hope to achieve. Amazing chops!

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I remember when you disappeared for quite awhile on here and we all were worried about where you were. Sorry your wife had to suffer so with lung cancer. My mom had the same weight loss associated with her lung cancer tx and did not have cannabis offered. I wonder if she would have accepted it.

I know that there is a lot of anger and distrust over Royce's power grab a few years ago. I was very new here and not fully informed of the specifics. Politicians in power abuse it for sure and I know he alienated the East side and more.

I will be glad when this election is over, but I suppose we can expect an explosion of frustration from the losers. I sense a lot of short fuses everywhere. Press Talk comments are some of the worse I have seen in a long time.

manthou — October 26, 2013 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I believe human trials are currently underway at a Southern U.S. University (that leukemia cannabinoid thing).

For the freaks (like me):


Drift — October 26, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another guy who does a pretty decent Hendrix cover we don't hear much about.

Popa Chubby, Hey Joe

roger — October 26, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The reports on testing linked to at the bottom of your reference seem to show an inhibiting effect on the growth of other cancers too. FDA may elect to challenge these results for a while, but it seems there's enough testing showing positive results that they'll have to back off and approve the use. Of course, Big Pharma will have to be involved for it to be considered legal. When/if that happens - Do they attempt to ban the private medical marijuana grows?

roger — October 26, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou @ 3:15 pm - Another reason I'm not optimistic for the chances of the freeholders to even generate a home rule charter, much less get it past the voter.

I wasn't aware our County Comms make over $100K, for a part time job! People are talking about spreading that total $300K (+/-) over 5 County Comms. That's still $60K each; quite a bit more than our other elected part timers. There would have to be a very good reason to not want to cut this figure a lot more, no matter how many Comms. Somewhere in the $35-40K range sounds more than adequate.

A lot of people (except Jim Moeller) are pushing for initiatives and referendums from the voters. I like this idea, but just what does the County control to make this useful? Fireworks in unincorporated areas - I'm not seeing a whole lot else.

John Burke has a very simple slogan that ought to win votes - People Over Politicians. His facebook page covers every position he takes and explains it. (He's a conservative, limited government believer, in case you haven't read his posts on the facebook side.) He makes it very clear what you're getting with him - You have more than enough info to vote up or down.

Temple Lentz and Jim Mains say absolutely nothing except "Vote For ME!!!" (OK - Temple cut and paste from a description of what a freeholder does and possible options. Then she says you should go there with no predetermined positions. Hmmm... "What do you want to do?" -- "I dunno; How about you?" -- "I asked you first!") Jim Moeller's page says nothing, other than he expects an abysmally low voting rate of around 15-20%. Liz Pike goes on an unrelated lambasting of the CRC, but eventually gets around to saying what she sees the role of county government to be, and addresses some of the main possibilities. Ann Rivers, Joe Zarelli and Marc Boldt haven't put anything on the internet. Val Ogden says we need to change because we've had the same government since 1865.

And so forth.

Dancing With The Stars?

roger — October 26, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Duckies better get their act together - only ahead 21-14 at the start of the 4th. They're supposed to beat UCLA by about 20 and jump to 2nd in the BCS. Right now, I can see them falling to 4th behind Ohio State (who is beating up my Penn State team).

roger — October 26, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger,Manthou and Nail. I have lived here all my life, all 64 years. The City has tried to expand the foot print for years. They started with Hazel Dell, Felida and Salmon Creek. the people out there fought it and won. This really upset Pollard. So he turned his attention east. Most everyone there was happy with the way they were. They had no big voices to speak for them. Unlike Hazel Dell. Hazel Dell had people like Neil Kimsey, Yes he is the father of our Auditor. Pollard pushed his way east and won. And yes Roger he tried for Orchards and Sifton. But they had to go against the Wilsons of Deville industrys a very well estabalished family and company. Also the Cooks owners of Alpine Auto Body and several more. He did not win that battle either. So he won the east because of a lack of local involvment. It didn't work to well for the city because they had no money to take care of east Vancouver. They used a bandaid on the problems. Now it is catching up with them. I could go on but I think you may get my drift. Vancouver has gotten to big for its own self.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.

Thank you so much for that. I don't know much about Vancouver except the last several years. This is really interesting.

langenthal — October 26, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.

Thanks timerick. That helped thicken the soup. Divisions seem to run so deep here, I halfway expected the names of Hatfield & McCoy to surface.

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I don't know about the Hatfields and McCoys but it could be close. Another thing that has always got me to thinking is Pollard. He retired as Lt. Colonel out of the Vancouver Barracks. Most officers get at least 1 or 2 ranks higher. They also would not get sent to Vancouver. It always looked to me as a last resort for Pollard. I had that conversation with him a few years ago. I guess that is why he didn't really care for me to very well. But some how he got in with the people from Identity Clark County and a few others. I would guess they figured they could use him for their man. I could be wrong on this but I don't think so. This town has been corrupt since WW2. And the sad part is it is the same family's. They seem to have just pasted it down from one generation to the other. I do not see it changing anytime soon. That is why I thought Madore was going to be good. He may have been if not for a thurst for power. It is good to rock some boats but you don't want it to capsize. I told you Nail I am leaning more and more to the left. I just hope I don't turn into a occupy person. I may need help.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The 2007 annexation plan update had the city coming back after us between 2007 and 2012. This didn't happen - probably due to the economy and the lack of money to support an annexation. They're working on the area behind Van Mall south of 58th - mostly older residential - I don't know if they finalized it. I also heard they wanted to go after the Green Meadows area (across I205 from 5 Corners) about a year or so back, but don't know that this went anywhere.

This is Jesus Country out here in Orchards - a couple of the "big box" variety, but mostly it seems you can't go anywhere without bumping into another small church. People still dress up in their Saturday or Sunday best and head of to do that group praying thing. I suspect a whole lot of that Madore victory margin was due to our area. Ask Goldie - she's the normal one around here - not me and my heretical ideas.

Do those liberal folks who make up the Vancouver intelligentsia really want this crowd in their city? You're going to be praying at Council meetings, just like the County does.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick and nailingit,

I have lived here in east Vanc. for almost 36 yrs.
timerick, we did fight Pollard on the annexation. We had enough signatures, but were told too bad so sad and he annexed us anyway. You know as well as I, Pollard, didn't (and still don't like) being told no. It was his way or you hit the hywy.

We were told we'd have better services...that ended up being a joke. We had the sheriff's here and they always patrolled the neighborhood at least twice a day, now we are lucky if we see a cop once every six months. We see them on Mill Plain since the east station isn't too far from us. We went from being able to pick from 3 waste collection companies to being in a mandated have to waste connection company and prices raised. (which IMO is a monopoly). We seen rates for water, elec and property taxes go up higher.
We have watched over the yrs since being annexed, Evergreen airport closed cause of high taxes cause Pollard wanted that parcel for development, which is now underway. They had planned on at least one hotel, 600 apts plus more strip mall buildings. Chunks of strip malls at every turn, housing everywhere. Apts mixed with homes. Farm land wasted for these.
Mill Plain was once 2 lanes, due to over growth we have what we do now, and need it even wider. 112th was also 2 lanes, now 4 very narrow lanes and we need 112th widen even more.
After Glen Jackson bridge was built I think Pollard figured if he over developed the east county area, it would bring more people from Oregon here to live, and commute over the bridge to Portland to work. So he would have that high tax base to help pay to develop downtown.

ELISI — October 26, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Those of you that have been following the little discussion between me and our illustrious Commissioner are going to be very disappointed if you try to check up on "us". It seems that with the assistance of Mr. Ron Goodman, we have caused (I believe) Mr. Madore to pull his Facebook page #2. Seems he doesn't want to deal with us. Well at least I can't find it.

hawkeye — October 26, 2013 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think you are right Roger. As far as the praying goes I don't know. But don't they open the congress and house in DC with a prayer or benidiction of some kind? I really don't care how they open as long as things get done. And it looks like praying has not done much good as far as getting anything meaningful done. As long as the auto dealers are out there I don't think you will see any annexing going on. Hanaha has way to much money to fight that. That is why he moved there in the first place. I have known Dick Hanaha for 40 years. I know how he feels. We all grew up together. He just did a lot better than most of us.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 9:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hard to say with Pollard - A lot of the Vietnam era officers got hurt with promotion due to the late '70s downsizing. And I suppose politics could have come into play - depends on a lot of things. I Corps was in charge of Ft Lewis, and there was a fair amount of bad blood between the senior folks of 9th ID and Corps due to some Vietnam BS. 9th was heavy into the light infantry mentality, and someone who wasn't a hard charger wasn't welcome. There were only so many battalions for a Lt Col to command, and if he didn't make it as a G-level staff officer, that pretty much left Van Barracks or (even worse) Yakima. There are all kinds of possibilities. But I think if he stayed here several years before retiring (as I heard), then most likely someone higher up the food chain took care of him - allowed him to go when he was ready, rather than telling him to retire.

Whatever. Retired colonels shouldn't be allowed to take office - they're all arrogant SOBs that want everyone to jump when they say, and hate being disagreed with. (Pollard and Smith.) Ask any ex- enlisted or junior officer.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wonder what Dick Hannah has to say about the 4th Plain BRT. A lot of that heavy vehicle traffic is from his street, and there's already enough competing traffic from the mall area.

roger — October 26, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has anyone gone to Jeanne Stewart's FB page and read any of her postings?

One unhappy lady for being grouped in with Decker, Turlay and Doan.

ELISI — October 26, 2013 at 9:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Roger couldn't agree more. I didn't retire but I did make it to E-5. After 2 tours in Viet Nam I wasn't staying. Looking back it was not one of my best desisions. But at 21 and as dumb as I was? Thats life. But my childhood friend made Sgt. Major of the Army. Jack Tilley We had the same probation officer in when we were in high school. He was one hell of a boxer. If I remember that is what got us in trouble in the first place. Long time ago.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I was just listening to some music and Bob Dylan came on. I forgot how he couldn't carry a tune. Also Linda Ronstadt she sure was pretty. I can't remember what happened to her. Good old days.

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 9:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 26, 2013 at 8:54 p.m.

I hope you don't go the Occupy route either, but if you do, don't forget your roscoe, I've read things can get pretty gnarly in those tents.

Your insight is much appreciated. Some interesting history.

The CRC seems to have unhinged existing discontent, Leavitt's change of mind with tolling poured gas on it, and Madore gleefully lit the match and torched the whole damn thing.

Linda Ronstadt was pretty hot alright, and a great voice to go with it. I'd have to look it up but I remember she either married or lived with Jerry Brown.

Yeah, those were the good old days for sure.

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

On the sports front tonight-Great World Series GM 3 with a wild finish. Also in a beautifully shaped contest televised on Comcast CH 720, UCLA failed to come from behind in a tight match-up with Washington. Huskies stay on top. (someday women's volleyball will get the recognition it deserves)

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 11:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 26, 2013 at 9:11 p.m.

Thanks for your input. With regards to Mill Plain. Traffic does seem to be a problem. Lotsa choke points around. Salmon Creek is always bad around the I-5-205 area. Seemed to be little planning with regards to traffic flow.

nailingit — October 26, 2013 at 11:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 26, 2013 at 9:34 p.m.

"Retired colonels shouldn't be allowed to take office - they're all arrogant SOBs that want everyone to jump when they say, and hate being disagreed with."

I had to laugh when I read that. I used to live next door to a Captain (AF) off base who was heavy into card playing. After getting to know him he let me in his little circle of poker playing with his buddies, to include his boss, the big kahuna, a full bird colonel. (of course I had to pass the Bird muster-OPSEC was a priority/Snowden be damned)

Anyway, when the Colonel was present, the amount of ass kissing was ridiculous. All these guys had ego's flying out the door. The lowest rank was a CMSgt., but when the boss was playing, they were reduced to a brainless mass of compliant gelatin.

He'd always be the first one to leave, no doubt setting a time example for the troops. (always angry when he was outplayed, and word had it he was visiting someone his wife didn't know about)

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 12:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry for not responding right away. Busy weekend! Lew's site is easy to remember.

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 25, 2013 at 6:16 p.m.

Were you under the assumption that I thought you were attacking me alone in your post on 10/25 @ 10:16 am? What makes you think I was singling you out in my comment on 10/25 @ 3:11 pm???

You know what they say about assumptions???

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You are the biggest BS'er I've ever had the chance to read in comment sections. How much are you paid to troll here on the forum??? You change with the wind, bubba. You sir...are a HYPOCRIT of the WORST dimension! You support corruption by supporting people who put on the personification of voting on issues without as much as reading what it is they are signing when it is evident he had received the information prior TO the C-Tran meeting on 09/26/2013, signing into a binding contract which would cost the taxpayers of Clark County HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to rescind, while another local leader refused to sign into the contract and voted NO...BECAUSE of the fact that he wasn't properly made aware of the hastily-organized M&O; loo rail contract prior to one minute before the vote. And so conveniently, our prestigious mayor who you blindly support, the same mayor who shammed the voters...refused to allow any actions by Madore unless the people had till the following meeting to read up on his requests??? This is the same mayor who recused himself from a public vote (as mayor) because of a conflict of interest because of his company's affiliation with the company who was making a request...yet in the same a member of C-Tran's Board of Directors, he hastily made a vote on the maintenance and operations funding for TriMet's money drainer without as much as blinking an eye!!!

Now WHO IS IT you are calling corrupt???

Regarding your comment about my "preserves" and urging me to eat them till I develop diabetes...

I thought you said you NEVER MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS!


goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning, gold. Yes, I did think that you thought I was addressing you. I was not attacking you whatsoever. My comment was meant to be general with nobody in mind.
Good to see that I was under wrong impression.

My point was and is: some people will not change their opinion even if the facts get in the way.
And the second, main point was and remains: fighting, attacking, name calling will not help but separate us even further. Not something we should do at this stage. That goes for local as well as national politics. It's truly time to remember that communication is key. Ego trips ain't doing it anymore.

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I didn't say missy missy, HC. But I did say communication. What good does name calling do? If the good folks currently in congress keep doing nothing but call each other names, then what? They need to learn to speak to each other or extreme thinking such as we do have in the tea people, will continue.
That also includes rational, normal voters need to speak their mind, not just the blind followers.

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kissy kissy, not missy missy. Fighting with the iPad in early morning...

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And how do you envision this re- engineering? Since I am against violence or another civil war, rebellion, or whatever you want to call it, the option left is communication, education, voting them out.
That's just my path, however.
I agree, though, that dismantling social programs, is wrong. I think we all know which side I support.

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not bad points, HC. Think we would see a change like that in our lifetime?

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good morning, all. How has your weekend been? I do love this Fall weather.....

Greg Jayne's column: excellent points very well-presented. :) I have said here before that all moderates need to join forces, no matter what party affiliation they call home. People are tired of extremism and it will be evident, I think, with our local election results in November.

Let's hope this moderate movement makes inroads in state and federal government, too.

I like Chris Matthew's analogy: making decisions in government politics is a big tug of war and both sides wind up pulling each other toward the middle for the most effective, fair policy making.

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 7:32 a.m.
"Think we would see a change like that in our lifetime?"
All we would have to do is repeal the First Amendment and rewrite Article I of the Constitution.
Our system may not be perfect but slaughtering the Constitution is not the answer.

frobert — October 27, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.
The "extremism" is in rhetoric only, what has really changed under the Obama Administration?
We currently have two center-left parties, slowly increasing Government and decreasing liberties.
Real liberals should want nothing to do with the Democrats and real conservatives should want nothing to do with the Republicans.

frobert — October 27, 2013 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 9:23 am: About Madore taking down is #2 FB page and all your and Ron G's excellent challenges with it: I suspect the county attorneys who are tasked with defending his butt in court again have had a serious discussion with him about the risks of self-incrimination. Just watch that KOIN interview again from a defense attorney's perspective. It is cringe-worthy entertainment. :)

Sometimes it is prudent NOT to exercise your free speech rights when you are a polarizing public figure with a massive legal target on your head. I think Madore is slowly getting that.

His posts on his #1 site have been less controversial of late. We'll see if he can hold it together and maintain. I am not holding my breath.

Regardless, it is important to continue to give him respectful feedback to balance what his thinking errors and adoring followers say. You can still email the guy and share your opinion about his positions on important local issues. He may disregard you, but, at least your feedback will be a permanent public record (that cannot be legally destroyed) to show that he was given alternative advice and views from reasonable citizens.

You already probably know that practically anything can show up as evidence and exhibits in a court of law or tort claim settlement. Public comment in newspapers has, so emails and FB discussions do, too. Your FB comments have probably already been preserved for posterity in screen shots. :)

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger, "Do they attempt to ban the private medical marijuana grows?"

As a matter of fact, the Liquor Control Board's draft recommendations to the legislature suggests they do just that. No, I'm not joking.

If you go to the LCB web site you can read the draft. In the budget there was an appropriation of 2.5 mil. for the LCB, Dept. of Health and Revenue to make recommendations to the legislature on the interaction of medicinal and recreational cannabis. Killing patient grows is one of the more onerous suggestions.

The Board is taking comments until Nov. 8th.

I do believe I mentioned it a day or so ago.

Drift — October 27, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Greg Jayne's column: excellent points very well-presented."

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 8:21 a.m

"Oppose the Columbia River Crossing. No problem here; I'm guessing most Clark County residents agree."

"Republicans, in general, have a lot going for them. Despite the fiscal excesses of the Bush administration, Republicans are our only hope for some semblance of federal fiscal sanity; Democrats can't get over the fact the public isn't outraged about sequestration cuts. Plus, many people find kindred spirits among Republicans when it comes to social issues."

manthou-More than extremism, I think many are tired of false narratives slipping in the back door and somehow shaping policy.

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: His #2 FB is still there, but your challenges and discussions seem to be gone.

Instead, he seems to be posting absolutely adorable photos of his sweet grandchildren (they ARE beyond cute). Good move because it humanizes him. More daughters and son-in-laws, grandkids and wife photos will be seen. It is more difficult to go after Grandpa and Daddy Madore on there. :)

nailingit: I don't expect to agree with Jayne on every point, as I did not last week when he claimed there was a lot to like about Madore (there is a lot to like about Grandpa Madore, however: see my post to Hawkeye above). Jayne's main point today, from what I perceive, is that the Republicans are self-destructing with some very extremist positions. Jayne refrains from name calling, which, while enormously entertaining, is easier for more people to swallow and digest.

I do miss Laird's acerbic wit. Wish I could write like that. But Jayne is who we have at the C now. He is right-leaning for sure, but not unreasonable. If you read Bruce Ramsey's editorial opinion from the Seattle Times more often, you would be worshipping at Jayne's feet with gratitude for his moderation by comparison. :)

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just read your assessment of Jayne's column and was wondering how you found a couple of assumptions toward the end acceptable. But on scrolling down, I see Nails got here first. Keep on talking moderation like that and Nails is going to start muttering about another one going to the dark side.

I wonder what John Laird has to say about his replacement sounding like a conservative? And with that comment about most of the County opposing the CRC, I'm wondering how long he keeps his job. I figure by now Editor Lou has gotten calls from Jody Campbell, Jim Moeller, Paul Montague and a few others going "WTF is going on?????"

roger — October 27, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 27, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

Yet again, a fine example of holy-isms...anything to deceive, degrade, diminish...

Betch you'll get someone's feathers ruffled for that sexist wisecrack!!!

""I don't attack you GD.""
holycrapola — October 23, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.

Remember that comment, Bubby???

By the way, I'm still awaiting that "list" of politicians who have never lied, cheated or stolen from the people for personal gain. Having difficulty, eh???

A new song for our resident sailor...

"Trollin'....Trollin'....Trollin' down the river!!!

Take a free ride, Bubby. Your sailboat awaits you. Make sure you have your food supplies are well stocked, including the Trick or Treat goodies you would have given the little zombies! Thursday is the day of the Zombie Apocalypse! (Ironic how it falls on the same day SNAP disappears).

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""It is all about balls and the will to change a system that does not work."""

There's a major difference between Free Will and Oppression!

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.

Oh I agree with you about this weather...even the sprinkles and breezes this morning! All the pretty orange and yellow and red leaves are delicately blown around...just a beautiful day...a great day to share good times and a bit of tea or coffee with friends and family. According to what Pat Timm has to say, we might have more of the weather extremes all winter...possibly up to 4 snow events. I much prefer our weather than what we're witnessing globally!!!

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 27, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.

And a good morning to you as well, luvit. How easy it is to misunderstand what others are trying to say when it is written word!!!

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I think good newspapers allow a range of editorial opinion to be expressed. I do not think The C is as "liberal" as some bloggers and citizens claim it is. When opinion is presented in a way that is reasoned and respectful, it might actually educate and influence. If you cannot reach the skeptics, you wind up writing for a limited audience. We have more things in common in Clark County than differences. I really believe that. The problem with only choosing opinion you agree with? You get a skewed view of reality. That is what is happening now with the far right Republican party members. They think they have the majority opinion because they only expose themselves to far right opinion and persons. I do think this local election will prove otherwise. I may be wrong. But we shall see.

nailingit: I know that The Stranger is very left, but their recent criticism of Bruce Ramsey is spot on by a good journalist named Dominic Holden. Ramsey wrote a column in his Seattle Times that appeared to be making fun of Bradley Manning's transgendered preference. Even Ramsey's colleagues took him to task about it privately (I know some of them). One did so publicly. Good for you, Jonathan Martin. :)

Here's why I am grateful editorial board members like Bruce Ramsey live three hours North of us:

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

An interesting article from Friday's The Oregonian covering delays on the Yellow and Green lines route - seems there was an insulated joint failure on the Steel Bridge, which would mean the system that allows trains to maintain proper spacing wasn't working.

TriMet has had a few problems related to that bridge. I suspect getting the New Starts funding so they can use it to upgrade the entire MAX crossing there is a big reason behind the go it alone push with the CRC.

What I also find interesting is the conversation in the comments section on timeliness. Seems Rose and others at the paper have repeatedly ask TriMet for the documents covering this and have been blown off. One person notes a TriMet claim of 85%, but doesn't accept it. Another notes a rule of thumb as leave a half hour early if you want to be on time.

roger — October 27, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ooh...I guess I better bring this up before his holiless decides to bring it up, trying to say I'm that "far rightwinger" he claims I am because I posted on a conservative blog.

I posted on Lew Waters' blog this morning (first reaction to articles in quite a while for me) in response to a video of our mayor which I believe to be spot on. There's no denying the fact that he jumped to sign the papers ASAP without time to read (unless he had been presented with the paperwork prior to the meeting...ethical behavior??? I think not).

Here's my comment on the link below. I want to make sure everyone knows I'm not hiding anything from you (and the reference to scumbags is not just directed to ONE person. It's directed to our corrupted system in general).

"""Goldenoldie October 27, 2013 at 6:04 AM
Wow…Mr. Mayor must be a speed reader…faster than I have ever witnessed in my life!
What scumbags!!!
I was beginning to lose faith in our system, but now I know for sure…we’re screwed!!!"""

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 27, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.

Roger, I believe that is why the CRC included upgrades to the Steel Bridge as part of the crossing package, even though it was outside the target zone of grabbing that federal new starts funding in the first place. Probably one of the main reasons the Washington State Senate failed to support it.

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and that was the failed CRC package I was referring.

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.

"I think good newspapers allow a range of editorial opinion to be expressed."

I agree, and with most topics I also see that The Columbian does a good job. And in fairness, Eric Florip continues to write articles that include info that is (mildly) damning of the CRC. But The C is firmly behind the project, and has always supported that the opposition is from a loud, vocal minority. Jayne surmising that we who oppose the project are in fact the majority opens so many cans of worms - I suppose I'll have to check back there and see if this gets addressed, or if saying the Repubs represent fiscal sanity dominates the conversation.

It is fun.

roger — October 27, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 27, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.

The only politician in office which you mentioned yesterday was Leavitt, Bubby. Nice choice. It speaks volumes.

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Only a little over 7 percent of the registered voters have turned in their ballots, less than two weeks before the election deadline.

Get 'em marked and mailed, folks. We will only be able to use this qualifier: " the majority of the voters who turned in their ballots" when discussing what issues and which persons won.

The larger the sample size, the stronger the message.

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jayne was a good sports writer, he should NOT have given that up.

hawkeye — October 27, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Christ! Two separate posts this morning linking to Lew Waters site. Where's the Lysol?


manthou- I agree with having diversity of opinion in newspapers. Extremely important. However, I do believe we need to separate fact from fiction, and excellent points need to be set aside from erroneous ones.

There are orgs. who feed off folks wanting compromise, touting "centrist" views (both sides of the aisle-kinda) while criticizing the disparity/division caused when "hard liners" take principled stands on core issues and programs such as Medicare, Social Security, Taxes, and various social programs. Groups such as 'No Labels' who set up PACS, tend to muddy the waters while running off into obscurity with voters $$$ till next election, are a negative to our political process in my opinion.

But my opinion plus a buck-two-eighty-nine won't buy a round of java on the latest flight to Tanzania.

Principled views based in democracy, and the proven success when those views have translated into policy over time should not be diminished one bit.

Could I get two cremes & one sugar with that order?

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just sent a link to this to the County Commissioners telling them they should adopt this as their own since Madore doesn't seem to understand this concept.

SUMMARY: The Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission has posted a draft advisory opinion that if ultimately adopted in its current form would encourage City elected officials to continue using blogs, Facebook, Twitter and other social media without worry of ethics enforcement actions on political grounds, so long as they follow certain basic ground rules to avoid such conflicts. It’s to be discussed further, and after stakeholder and public comment would ultimately be issued as a rule or final advisory opinion which could necessitate changes in the city’s elections and ethics codes. Among the rules of the road in the draft opinion: if you use your city web site or e-newsletter to link to your blog or social media sites, the latter must be free of any advocacy for or against a candidate or ballot measure. Also: you can’t remove negative comments from your official blog or Facebook site unless they’re “obscene, profane, libelous or defamatory,” because that would skate too close to political manipulation of the site. The commission stresses that use of social media by elected officials benefits citizen engagement and government transparency, and that by spelling out guidelines it wants to encourage, not discourage, greater use of these tools by City of Seattle officeholders.

hawkeye — October 27, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just exactly who has replaced Laird is open to question right now. You’ll notice that while Jayne is on the front page of today’s Columbian home web page, last week it was Aaron Corvin (10/20/13; Extremists resistant to dialogue) while Jayne’s opinion write was not. Then Jayne the week before, but Corvin the week before that (10/6/13; GOP tack dumb and dumber). While Corvin is called a “port and economy reporter” , his “articles” have had nothing to do with reporting, but follow in the tradition of Laird’s Republican bashing opinion. If this is the way it’s going to be, then the Columbian out to at least have the journalistic ethics to quit calling Corvin a reporter.

kn_dalai — October 27, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 12:22 PM: Excellent idea and I am glad you passed it along to the Commissioners. I think social media is great on so many levels, but it is also largely uncharted legal territory and public figures need to use it was care and caution. Heck, we all should be careful.

manthou — October 27, 2013 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's being reported Lou Reed has passed.

RIP Lou. You've inspired many while your music lives on. And on. And on.

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sad Day...

Lou Reed, Rock ’n’ Roll Pioneer, Dies at 71
Lou Reed, the principal singer and songwriter in the Velvet Underground, has died, his literary agent, Andrew Wylie, said on Sunday. He was 71.
Mr. Reed died on Long Island, Mr. Wylie said. He is survived by his wife, Laurie Anderson, a songwriter and a performance artist.

hawkeye — October 27, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow - Bummer. Lou led the way for a lot of the New York scene the became punk rock.

roger — October 27, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I referenced this type of stupidity the other day and got some silly response about Hawaiian statehood or something or other. I rarely draw attention to these on going birther attacks from Republican elected lawmakers because one could spend 24/7 doing so.

As long as the RW electorate embraces this type of racially divisive politics, it's not going away anytime soon.

Anyway-dig on the crowds response. At some point, and after five years...hell it doesn't matter. These blowhards will always be with us, and conservatives will always elect them.

Anyone ever approach Madore/Meilke/Benton on the birther issue? (careful not to step on the dog whistles)

///GOP Lawmaker Cracks Birther Joke/// [VIDEO]

"I noticed on Facebook recently somebody had posted something with a picture of Barack Obama and across it said 'traitor.' And, you know, I don't always agree with the guy -- I certainly didn't vote for him -- but I gotta defend him on this one," he said. "I just don't think it's right at all to call Barack Obama a traitor. There's a lot of things he's done wrong but he is not a traitor. Not as far as I can tell. I haven't come across any evidence yet that he has done one thing to harm Kenya."

The audience guffawed.

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.

"Attack"? Hardly, it is more like a bad joke, you and huffingtonpost don't bolster your position, by calling everything done by Republicans is an attack. The really scary thing about the article, is the number of enlightened liberals calling for the execution of those who disagree with them. It really shows how unhinged the mainstream liberal has become.

frobert — October 27, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 27, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.

You been hittin' the sauce??? There was no mention yesterday of Bernie Sanders by you. That was the day before. Fuhgettin' agin' ???

Hmm...a self-described Democratic Socialist, eh??? Why am I not surprised?

Funny bit of claim Bill Turlay is like a grandpa (insinuating his capabilities of being a mayor because of his age???) yet Bernie Sanders is only a couple years younger than him. I guess when it's convenient, you like to pull the age card.

goldenoldie — October 27, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, should have read the scary thing about the article is the comments, and the number of enlightened liberals calling for the execution of those who disagree with them.

frobert — October 27, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, this must be the equivalent of having gum stuck on your shoe for some establishment Republicans. I welcome her return! She is the embodiment of todays conservative mindset. (no need to rattle off a few of those qualities I'm sure)

Go get em' Sarah!

///The return of Sarah Palin///

(CNN) -- The Republican establishment can't stand her. The media mocks her. But Sarah Palin isn't going anywhere.

Far from it.

After laying low for much of this year, Palin is gingerly stepping back into the public arena with a national book tour, a trip to the always-important political state of Iowa, and an eye on making yet another series of splashy endorsements in a variety of competitive Republican primaries.

Five years after rocketing from Alaska obscurity to worldwide fame, Palin wants to be a political player in 2014.

Which raises the question: Does she still matter?

"She is the most important endorsement in Republican politics today, by far," said Sal Russo, a Republican consultant who co-founded the Tea Party Express, a group that has booked Palin to speak at numerous public events dating back to the 2010 midterm cycle. "She can move the needle in a primary more than anyone else can."

Read more @

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's a start...

///GOP Rep Emerges As First House Republican To Join Democrats' Immigration Efforts///

With less than three weeks to go in Congress' 2013 legislative calendar, one Republican serving in a heavily Hispanic district has moved to join House Democrats on immigration reform.

The Washington Post reported Saturday that Rep. Jeff Denham (R-Calif.) is ready to sign on with 185 of his House colleagues as a co-sponsor for a pathway to citizenship. The Senate passed an immigration reform bill in June with a strong 68-32 majority, but House Republican leaders have said it will not be considered without majority Republican support.

Denham would be the lone GOP rep at this point, but he does not see that circumstance lasting for very long.

“I’m the first Republican,” he told the Post. “I expect more to come on board.”

Read more @

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 27, 2013 at 7 p.m.

I agree with your take on Bernie. It's a big plus to have him involved with upcoming budget negotiations. With Republicans, Obama and a few democrats willing to put "anything" on the table, Im confident he'll be a strong voice for reasonable reform. Bernie's a gem. We need many more like him.

If you have time, send a message to Patty Murray. She's heading things up.

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail Sara is a piece of work. But she is good on the old eyes. keep working and i might swing to your dark side soon.

timerick — October 27, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- It ain't all that bad over here. I spoke with my supreme commander about your recent birthday, and he wanted me to gift this to you.

nailingit — October 27, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LUV: "extreme thinking such as we do have in the tea people,"

you have any examples of that, luv?

DeeLittle — October 28, 2013 at 3 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dee, just look at recent events. Enough said.

luvithere — October 28, 2013 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""You can get sick with no money and we pay the bill."""
Ehh! Wrong, bubby. We don't pay the bill. The collectors will hound us to death.

"""You want to go to school, we give you a subsidized loan."""
Wrong in many cases. Not everyone who goes to school goes for a loan or a grant. Many DO save their hard-earned cash or their parents scrimped and saved so that their children could receive a good college education.

"""You go to the Armed Forces, we take care of you."""
Wrong again. Anybody who goes into the Armed Forces works their backside off. It's no socialized benefits here, bubby. Nice that you've just insulted everyone who has given their time, their bodies, their protect your ASS!

"""You have no car, we give you a subsidized bus or train."""
Wrong again. We PAY for that bus or train and we PAY AGAIN when we ride it.

Get the picture, holyfuzzybrain??? Obviously NOT!!!

I could continue but why waste my time???

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 6:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 28, 2013 at 6:08 a.m.

(My perspective...sorry for buttin' in on your discussion, luvit and Dee.)

It's only extreme to those in all cases no matter if it's folks on the Democratic ticket or on the Republican ticket (or any other for that matter).

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 6:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A hearty congrats to Firefighter/Paramedic George Lingle for 40 years of selfless dedication to your career...and a thank you to each and every other firefighter/paramedic who is dedicated to their career as well. You are highly appreciated heroes...the whole lot o' ya!!!

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Crosscut has published an anti-lightrail opinion from a Seattle perspective that I thought was well-written. I read opinions from both sides. :) I just the author had not included the over-used noun "boondoggle." It almost stopped my reading right there.

It asks the good question: Do politicians support light rail for the hope of obtaining massive campaign donations from the companies who benefit from the project? A good question to ask.

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I suppose parishioners in 'The Peoples Temple' didn't see themselves as extreme either.

///Ex-GOP senator unloads: A “total disconnect … between reality and Republican Party”///

-Former Republican senator and independent Gov. Lowell Weicker has harsh words for his party -- and his replacement-

Lowell Weicker served three terms in the U.S. Senate from Connecticut as a Republican, before being defeated by then-Democrat Joe Lieberman – with an assist from influential conservatives – in 1988. Two years later, in a rare feat, he won Connecticut’s gubernatorial election as a third-party candidate.

In a Friday interview, Weicker – now 82 – slammed the modern GOP, scorched his old foe Lieberman, and urged an upheaval in how America funds public schools. A condensed version of our conversation follows.

--What went down in D.C. over the past month – has it told us anything about the Republican Party that we didn’t know?--

I suppose the obvious answer is that the party is so far off to the right that it can’t even come to grips with reality in America today. Now, that’s the easy answer because it’s clear that the Republicans, through their most extreme members, are showing that tendency. But I think the time has come to focus the blame where it belongs, and that’s with the American people.

You cannot have a government where 46 percent vote for president, about 35 percent vote for Senate, about 25 percent for congressmen. When you get to those total local percentages, that means that any dedicated group within the percentage can have an enormous weight, way beyond their numbers, on policy.

Read more @

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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