Open forum, Oct 28-Nov 3



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///Ex-GOP senator unloads: A “total disconnect … between reality and Republican Party”///

-Former Republican senator and independent Gov. Lowell Weicker has harsh words for his party -- and his replacement-

Lowell Weicker served three terms in the U.S. Senate from Connecticut as a Republican, before being defeated by then-Democrat Joe Lieberman – with an assist from influential conservatives – in 1988. Two years later, in a rare feat, he won Connecticut’s gubernatorial election as a third-party candidate.

In a Friday interview, Weicker – now 82 – slammed the modern GOP, scorched his old foe Lieberman, and urged an upheaval in how America funds public schools. A condensed version of our conversation follows.

--What went down in D.C. over the past month – has it told us anything about the Republican Party that we didn’t know?--

I suppose the obvious answer is that the party is so far off to the right that it can’t even come to grips with reality in America today. Now, that’s the easy answer because it’s clear that the Republicans, through their most extreme members, are showing that tendency. But I think the time has come to focus the blame where it belongs, and that’s with the American people.

You cannot have a government where 46 percent vote for president, about 35 percent vote for Senate, about 25 percent for congressmen. When you get to those total local percentages, that means that any dedicated group within the percentage can have an enormous weight, way beyond their numbers, on policy.

Read more @

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 28, 2013 at 6:48 a.m. (last week's thread)

Why is it you make such arrogant and hairbrained false claims? You referenced not everyone, your words used were "YOU" in your post @7 pm.

Did you forget that anybody who works, buys products, eats at restaurants, goes to a movie, takes in a show...does just about anything...and pays taxes? Did you forget that anybody who buys a car, pays the tabs, fills the tank, pays the insurance, pays for repairs and upgrades on their car...pays taxes? YES...we ALL pay our fair share. Where do you think the funding comes with subsidies, holybrainfart? Are you that dense???

Regarding the armed forces...have you ever been in the military? Do you know what they go through in training and on the front lines? Do you even know what the families of the fighting brave endure??? I doubt it. The fighting brave in our military AND their families pay a price which far exceeds any price (not necessarily monetarily speaking) non-military people pay...and what do they get in return when shot dead or killed by a land mine???, except for a medal and a flag...and the government pays out the survivors with a measly $100,000 to cover their grief and burial expenses.

You ungrateful bastard!

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What's the matter, think nobody was reading your comment in last week's thread so you had to copy and paste it here??? Don't worry...some of us aren't reading it here either.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"You cannot have a government where 46 percent vote for president, about 35 percent vote for Senate, about 25 percent for congressmen. When you get to those total local percentages, that means that any dedicated group within the percentage can have an enormous weight, way beyond their numbers, on policy."

it gets worse. With gerrymandering and a 91% re-election rate, the real election is in the primaries, and we all know how great the turn-out is for them.

mrd — October 28, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So in other were never in the military and truly haven't a clue as to what the people who serve...not for political backdoor wars...but because they believe in upholding our freedom. You think when they sign up, they give a hoot about what is going on behind closed doors, holybrainfart?

You claim you've seen it first hand. Care to 'splain yourself? Probably not. It sounds so melodramatic...the man on a cause. Yeah...I too have seen it first hand, Bubby. I've seen the damage from PTSD and injuries sustained in Vietnam War, Korean Conflict and WW-II. I've been there for those who needed someone to listen when no-one else would. And since you're in the know of seeing it first hand, then maybe you'll refresh your mind and realize the vets from Vietnam were drafted into a war some didn't want to fight...and have lost a lot more than you could ever imagine.

You may think what you wish...but you are one who supports the people's dependence on our government. You holybrainfart, are part of the problem...NOT the solution. Socialism is NOT the solution. Our nation was built upon the belief of ZERO taxation without representation. The political strife of European government was unwelcome here...or did you forget? Those who believe in One-World dominance with "Social Democracy" are out to destroy independent nations and our nation is under siege...hence the reasoning behind HONEST Republicans (not neocons) fighting AGAINST a bigger government. An interesting but quite accurate statement from another source (yes, Wikipedia even surprises me sometimes) which states "Social democrats have advocated for a peaceful and evolutionary transition of the economy to socialism through progressive social reform of capitalism."

Progressive Social might as well call it "Welfare State." And what happens when the people rebel??? Will it still be a peaceful transition? Hardly. Already, you can see the division, holybrainfart. It's not just in the government. It's everywhere. The theory of "Conservatism" or "Moderate" or even "Independent" is slowly eroding. It's either US or THEY.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 28, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.

I don't know what the "F" I am doing? Why do you say that? Because I won't support a failing loo rail system? You go ahead and ride your bicycle built on metals and other byproducts taken from the Earth and processed by the very same people you condemn. You go ahead and ride your choo choo...the same choo choo which btw, runs on energy supplied by BPA and hydroelectric dams...the same dams which utilize fossil fuel to manage their generators...the same dams which utilize fossil fuel in order to construct the millions of miles of power lines...the same dams which pollute the waters surrounding them, rendering the fish as toxic...the same dams which pollute the rivers you glide along on in your sailboat which also carries a motor run on marine fuel.

I don't currently ride the bus and I won't step foot on one...not as long as the inept leadership supporting TriMet's Loo is still in office. Thanks, but I'll use ped power rather than pedal power.

YOU??? For PEACE??? You do nothing but cause havoc here on the forum. You went to Madore's business and do nothing but bitch and complain about someone who has worked from the ground up to be where he is today. For LOVE???...I'll leave that one blank. I don't know you personally (thank heavens). For sustainability??? HAH!!! That's a laugh! Your scooter, Harley is a gas hog. Every time you ride your two-wheeled lawn're doing more harm than good when you align yourself with all the other 'cyclers in the world.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One final thought then the final copy of my book must take priority over arguing with an idiot...

Holybrainfart, I do not idolize the military. I don't idolize anybody in fact. I have respect for what the fighting brave have done to try to secure our freedom from terror and oppression. I have seen first hand what the war has done to families. I have seen first hand what the war has done to those who took the initiative...the do what people like YOU could never dream of doing. I have respect for the veterans who have taken the time out of their lives to do what they thought was in the best interest of our nation.

R E S P E C T, holybrainfart...something I have absolutely NOTHING for someone such as the likes of you.

Hey...if you really want to save the world with sustainability, then PUSH your damned scooter rather than run it...and monitor the carbon emissions when that brain fart releases.

Have a nice day

I never realized someone such as yourself can hold onto a brain fart for so long.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To introduce another topic, just for fun:

The Columbian's editorial today criticizes the recent WA Supreme Court decision that upheld Christine Gregoire's "executive privilege" protection against disclosing certain documents to Freedom Foundation and by extension, the Press.

I am wondering: do you suppose that the right-wing politics of the Freedom Foundation swayed most of the judges to find a way to uphold the lower court's decision? Judges are human, afterall, and have biases, even though they are not supposed to.

I expect the Freedom Foundation will be involved in litigation against the C-Tran Board soon. My prediction.

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou: Wouldn't it be a wonderful World if these groups demanding openness and transparency in others would apply those same standards to their own activities?

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Herrera-Buehler draws her first, of probably many, RW challengers. Should be a fun ride for the political junkies among us.

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.

Interesting. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as Madore.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"One final thought then the final copy of my book must take priority over arguing with an idiot..."

You write a book, goldie? Has it been mentioned and I missed it? Catch me up, regardless?

Drift — October 28, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Madore gets the prize for criticizing others for not following process and lack of truth and transparency when he does it all so well himself. No ability to self-reflect. I do think he and the Freedom Foundation are newest BFF's.

What is it about current and former pilots and right-leaning politics here? John Ley, Jon Haugen (a Dem in name only), Bill Turlay, Charlie Stemper.

There are psychological profiles of people who are drawn to piloting air craft: many positive attributes, but some who love the thrill of risk. I have a friend who is a retired US Airforce pilot and he said: "We don't usually crash our planes. We do the biggest damage on land."

He was referring to racing his motorcycle, but I love that quote. :)

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 11:58 am: Oh, wow! Amazing.

You know, this stuff is blowing up in their faces and they are going to lose. Bill Turlay denounces this stuff and I have never heard him or seen him participate in this.

It is why Jeanne Stewart wants to be clear to the voters that she is NOT part of the far right wing trash club.

I think the tea party here knows it is on its deathbed with this election and they are pulling out all the stops. Problem is, there are digging a deeper grave.

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Way to go Stephanie Rice. Keep us informed.

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Roger!!!!

According to LEW, you are OK to vote for.

Now don't you feel SPECIAL????

hawkeye — October 28, 2013 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.

I looked at that guy and my thoughts immediately went to Aryan Nation. I don't know why.

hawkeye — October 28, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Best get you comments in ASAP. Madore acolyte and serial communicator, Carolyn Crain is threatening to stop Vancouver residents from reading the online version of the Columbian if the Madore 3 ½ gets elected.

"Election season is almost over and we will mount a campaign to stop all of the residents who read you on line from doing so. That will be the end of your new revenue stream and thus your company, mark my words.' (Carolyn Craine, APIL Columbian 10-28-13)

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 28, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.

Thank you for asking. My writes are of the creative writing sorts as well as writing nature stories for children which two are ready to send to the publisher(s) for review. Years ago, I'd sent one of the two to a publisher and was told it would be great if it could be part of a series...which is what I've been working on the past several years (on and off). I have also developed limited-edition, higher end children's color/design books (self published) which are to be sold during the holidays only. My next goal is to head to the magazine markets to sell my writes and an attempt at selling my artistic skills as well...not necessarily with the written manuscripts and articles but as a freelancer.

Whether or not my work sells, at least I'm giving it my best and I feel quite accomplished for what I have done thus far. I'm not in it for any monetary gain...just the satisfaction of sharing my writes and my artistic skills. I know the color/design books will be a popular choice for children. Even a possible donation of my copyrighted work to shelters for small children would be a success in my heart.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 28, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.

You are a lost cause, holyepicfailure. If you don't realize you are still using fossil fuels to get your sailboat moving...if you don't realize you are still using fossil fuels to run your lawnmower on two wheels...

Then you don't realize you are a hypocrite with the claim that you are doing your part for sustainability of the planet.

Now do me a favor and act like a fly in the wind.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 5 p.m.

That woman is a wacko.

hawkeye — October 28, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting reading in your Crosscut article. The writer argues for elections by district rather than at large, and believes BRT is much more cost effective than LRT in places where rails don't already exist. (I believe I've said both here.)

roger — October 28, 2013 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 28, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.

Was that supposed to be a burn? Pompous??? A self portrayal???A feeble attempt at best. No loo rail for me, Bubby. At least you admitted you still depend on fossil fuel to get around. There's hope for you yet.

By the way, did you see the article in the C that tells of the possibility of the number of trains coming to Vancouver from the oil fields? So much for sustainability and for saving the planet.

goldenoldie — October 28, 2013 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - No, Lew is saying I'm questionable. After a couple of his regulars suggested I'd be a good choice, he invited me to explain where I stand in greater detail, and he'd consider changing to give me his approval. I didn't, so my status remains unchanged.

roger — October 28, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here Crapper - Seeing as how you're now a Johnny Come Lately Bernie fan, go to the top right of his web page and enter your e-mail address so you can get the Bernie Buzz. He gets a little wild and starts sounding like you sometimes, but mostly pretty good stuff.

roger — October 28, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Clark County Repub party has some serious thinking to do. Their current leadership (Linda Wilson and friends) are extremists and will probably want to support Delavar. But I think most mainstream Repubs realize the national GOP leadership is going to have to crack down on that side of the party if they're going to continue to be relevant. And if the County party leadership doesn't see the light and come to Jesus, then the big boys at the RNC will put a whole lot of money into destroying them. Jaime is their golden girl; they will protect her at all costs.

I can't see a challenge coming from anyone except for possibly Jim Moeller.

roger — October 28, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:13 PM: I asked Jim Moeller directly if he would consider a run for Jaime's seat. His answer: I am having too much fun in Olympia. With two Repubs splitting the vote, he might just reconsider. I agree that he is the only Dem with enough name recognition to give it a shot.

Vancouver City Council commencing on CVTV. Citizen forum tonight. Place your bets now: what will Carolyn gripe about?

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 6:32 p.m.

I'm gonna go with the ads on Comcrap against Turley. Or what one of his supporters called him on the "C" (accidentally) Turkey.

hawkeye — October 28, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think I'd rather watch the Seahawks - They've got a real tussle going on with St Louis.

roger — October 28, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Can I ask everyone who exactly is this "BlueDonkeys" group?

On returning home this evening we found fliers in a packet from that group on our door step.

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Carolyn was up twice to share her two cents tonight, the first time crabbing about parts of the Waterfront project she does not like.

The other time she testified was on my behalf. She is so worried about my precious property being ripped from my possession by mean ol' Tri Met. This is where their kids play, she said. Maybe she is confusing us on E 17th with the Corleone compound, where Michael's wife sleeps and HIS kids play.

Carolyn, all five of us have known about the needed property acquisitions for years now. One house is already condemned by the city for code and safety violations and we have to keep calling the police who arrest the squatters that break in there. We are going to celebrate when this nuisance comes down. Only tears of joy. We'll kiss the Tri-Met rep's feet when they finally serve the official offers. The owners of the condemned house are in arrears with their other properties, and they haven't done a thing to improve this house in years. They'll take Tri-Met's money, too, and run. My property will only lose a tiny corner of the lot and I probably won't be able to buy dinner downtown for the family on it.

So, please, do me this favor, huh? Ask me how I feel about an issue before you advocate on my behalf, OK?

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: Blue Donkeys is the name of the Clark County Democratic party.

Here is their website:

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

-Man-John Hill just threatened to give Ley the boot. I guess for off topic repetitive posts? Which sent Ley into a 1 million word post I'm sure no one read. Kinda surprised at that. The cat and our local "creative kids writer" maybe should tone it down in case he takes a look! Just a thought.

John Ley · Top Commenter · Camas, Washington
I'd love to see some REAL reporting from the Columbian.

Here's a story over 2 years old that shines more lite on the CRC than we've seen from the Columbian in years.
Reply · 1 · · 5 hours ago

John Hill - Web EditorJohn, do you have this message saved in a Word doc on your desktop? You've made this point before and you keep making it. We appreciate participation in the online discussions here but if you continue to keep this remark on speed-dial we're going to have to restrict you from commenting on the site. Thanks.
Reply · 2 · · 2 hours ago

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stay tune for 'Green Bastards n' Jam'

“I do not like green bastards and jam-I do not like them Ornery-I-Am.”

Can't wait for the color designs!

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 8:42 am: Guess you pen kids' poems, eh? :)

John Ley is one of the many political pilots on here that I referenced at 1:05 pm. Makes me wonder about ever getting on a commercial flight again.

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 8:48 p.m

The woman sitting with the sign around her neck, I've seen her standing/sitting off the ramp from I 205 and Mill Plain panhandling. If I am incorrect, then she sure looks enough like the one who does to be a doppelganger.

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 28, 2013 at 9 p.m.

Kinda scary! I can imagine air traffic control insisting he veer left. I don't think he's capable!

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:07 p.m.

Maybe she's a custodian at US Digital.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I would say that John Ley gave Mr. Hill a real run for his money. When you state facts that are backed up it makes it real hard to argue. I am suprised they haven't tried to stop
Roger. The Columbian needs to report equal for both sides. I have not seen that in to much of their reporting. Damewood tried and they let her walk. I know you like the left side articles more but at least lets hear the truth on both sides. I think it is only the fair thing to do. No one likes to read the bad about those they support. But it happens to both. Just give me the truth from both and I will be happy. I may not like it but I can live with it. Am I living in my own dream world?

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:11 p.m

Going to be mean and say..

Maybe she was paid by someone on the left to make the right look bad..

Don't say never, cause it has happened from both sides.

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LUV: "extreme thinking such as we do have in the tea people,"
you have any examples of that, luv?
DeeLittle — October 28, 2013 at 3 a.m

Dee, just look at recent events. Enough said.
luvithere — October 28, 2013 at 6:08 a.m.

did as you suggested. didn''t find anything. sorry. not 'enough said'.

so, again: what was it that formed your opinion?

DeeLittle — October 28, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:15 p.m.

"Am I living in my own dream world?"

If you are, and dreaming about John Ley & roger, pinch yourself! Back to Palin & Rondstadt!

I have to think it was about being off topic. Having said that, more important to talk about dick signs?

I hope someone asks him why. As I said, I was a bit surprised. If it was an obnoxious issue, Van Gelding, Boucier and a few others would have hit the road years ago.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:15 p.m.

timerick, no not living in a dream world, there are too many of us out here that think the same way!

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GOLDIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are ON FIRE, lady !

what did you have for breakfast, anyway???

DeeLittle — October 28, 2013 at 9:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:25 p.m.


No one's gotten uglier than Madore with his snide accusations and pompousness. manthou was spot on with the local tea party being on their deathbed. Things are nasty. Those opposing Madore and his Clan don't need to do this. They are already winning in the court of public opinion.

Just sayin'.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The signs were totaly uncalled for. I would hope that people would have more common sense than that. But it looks like some don't. We don't need that type of thing happening. It is a shame that this has gotten so nasty. Like I said a few days ago I will be glad when this vote is over. At this point I am not sure if there will be any winners. It looks to me like they all have lost. I can almost hear the flush. Sad state we have gotten into. Total loss of respect for others and themselves.

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:34 p.m

Two wrongs don't make it right that's for sure.

Tea Party group, when they first started (much like the Occupy group) were doing and going in the right direction, then the extremist got in and took over.

I tend to close my ears to those who spew extreme from both sides. I'm like timerick, give me honesty, good investigating reporting, not your personal or party spin, truth is all I ask.
Politicians, even when they try to be honest the other side and media trashes them so that the voters lose site on what really is honesty and truth.

Saw a great bumper sticker today, "Refuse to re-elect anyone" In a way that is sad that someone feels that way, IMO that is exactly what's wrong today, too many running and elected to office that has no business being there.

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, I have a friend that told me years ago...

As a man all I have is my integrity, when I lose my integrity I am no longer a man.

When a politician loses his/her integrity, he/she loses my support and let me tell you, there is a whole lot of them out there that has.

ELISI — October 28, 2013 at 9:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.

That's what I thought when I saw Sohn's truck with the Liar Leavitt sign. When people don't police and admonish (many times encourage) those they're in bed with for doing stupid crap, it escalates into stuff like dick signs. Kinda like establishment republicans egging on the tea party, and then left wondering how to stop them from something like the government shut down or debt ceiling threat.

Wonder what'll be next. Just hope it doesn't turn violent as the Madore FaceBook post talked about.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 28, 2013 at 9:15 p.m: I don't think Mr. Hill was arguing with Mr Ley about which or whose facts were the more believable as much as he was chiding him for the repetitive recitation of the same information. Hill's job is to entertain, inform, and sell newspapers, and last year's news, even if accurate, doesn't sell many newspapers.

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Get out a years worth of popcorn. These circular firing squads will maim n' kill right into the 2014 elections. (now if Obama can only get that damn website fixed)

///Mitch McConnell to GOP donors: No more shutdowns///

-The Senate Minority Leader promises to fight back in the GOP's ongoing civil war-

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Now what was I saying about..Integrity

Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance

President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

ELISI — October 29, 2013 at 5:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's more from the IRS...

ELISI — October 29, 2013 at 5:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 28, 2013 at 10:10 p.m. -- " much as he was chiding him for the repetitive recitation of the same information."

But that's what most of the arguments, pro and con, have been over the past few years. That slap down from Hill was because Ley attacked The Columbian's journalistic standards - something Editor Lou won't put up with.

roger — October 29, 2013 at 5:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I keep going back to the importance of free speech, even if it is offensive to some.

Muzzle one point of view and it makes it easier to muzzle another. Kill free speech for one group, and it is eroded for another. When the speech is directed at a public figure, the censor bar is even more difficult to reach.

I think the Columbian is all over the place when it comes to their censorship standards, and I am often puzzled by who gets a slap on the wrist and who doesn't.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger @ 5:15: That may very well be the underlying reason, but Ley's repetitive posting of the same information with the same link was borderline obsessive. Ley should take it as a suggestion from a news professional on how to improve the effectiveness of his argument rather than using it as another attempt to achieve martyrdom at the hands of the 'evil persecutors' at the Columbian.

JohnK — October 29, 2013 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Dee, I am not on here too often as work interferes :). But a quick answer nevertheless.
I give you two examples of extreme behavior. The reaction of the local Republicans to Herrera. Ted Cruz and his ilk.
That's extremism for me.
You might disagree, of course.

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 5:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"""GOLDIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are ON FIRE, lady !

what did you have for breakfast, anyway???"""

DeeLittle — October 28, 2013 at 9:27 p.m.

An omelet with fresh spinach and onions from the garden along with a few mushrooms. Oh...and one more thing -

A small slice of my family recipe zucchini bread made by my younger daughter. Must be something in the zucchini bread...8P

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, I am not sure either about what gets censored here on C. If they were to be consistent, both the cat and Gold would be banned for the insults at each other. Kitty for rants, Gold for the highly inventive names for him. supposedly we are all asked to stir clear of "bad" words (those we tell our kids not to use). Maybe they decided to leave us alone?

Question for all. Anybody knows a decent, honest, good painter who does not overcharge? Not that we want to underpay, but quotes are really crazy these days.

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.

In my defense (although I don't think it's necessary to defend myself), the only reason why I've played name games with holy(fill in the blank) is because of his multiple monikers on the forum over the years. He knows it and so do I. It's just a silly name game.

And luvit...Speaking as the wife of a master painter (the highest level achieved in the painting industry, btw), you won't find a decent, honest, good painter who quotes cheap. They value their expertise and the cost to rent equipment and the use of supplies which on most occasions...they have to be replaced or purchased new (like the paper rolls for the paper machine to protect your windows, doors, foundations, light fixtures and whatever else), the cost of insurance and other costs I may have failed to mention...are quite expensive nowadays. And the decent, honest, good painter will guarantee their work for a certain length of time.

One the bids, are they including the cost of the paint? If so, you might be able to save a bit on the price of paint, given most companies can get a discount. You however, might be able to save more if you are buying paint on sale somewhere. Just a couple friendly pointers.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: Much of the Columbian censorship stuff is complaint-driven, I think. If no one blows a whistle, it passes. Most of us on here have a high tolerance for what passes as acceptable or we are able to ignore the vicious side squabbles that often go nowhere.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Might I add that it is important for you to double check their credentials. Going for the cheapest doesn't always guarantee a good job in the end. Make sure they're legit.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: What about the lead paint abatement that good painting contractors must deal with? I know that removing interior and exterior paint on older homes require special mitigation.

I am actually looking at a company in Portland that specializes in burning the stuff off, so all those little chips and paint dust don't fly all over the place. It is a very expensive process, but, in the end, a century old house siding looks like new and all the old lead paint is gone.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh...and good chilly, chilly morning, to you luvithere and manthou.

nailingit — October 28, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.

You have to admit...that WW article is quite accurate reporting. John Ley knows there's quite a battle with the pro's and anti's and isn't letting down (obviously).

The whole matter in a nutshell is this. TriMet wants to extend MAX in every direction and Clark County is stifling their attempts at mass transit domination. John Kitzhaber and his tagalongs are on board as is Jim Moeller with his tagalongs. I'm not sure if our governor is still as intent on getting MAX into Vancouver. I honestly think he's a bit disgusted with it altogether. But then again...that's just my perspective...8))

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:27 a.m.

manthou, you might check with the state regarding "burning" of lead paint. It might not be allowed here in Clark County. Also...would you trust "burning" of lead paint as a removal on a wood exterior? I know I wouldn't. And yes, the removal of lead paint is definitely an art in itself. They have to be absolutely sure they contain each and every paint chip or face the consequences. I hadn't seen where luvithere was concerned about lead paint or I would have mentioned it. For interiors, some older homes have asbestos in their popcorn ceiling texture. That too has to be either sealed properly or removed in a special manner...yet more costs in renovations of older homes.

Disclaimer, here...I'm not an actual painting contractor or painter. I'm just going by what I've been told by the experts over the years.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Will look into the paint burning issue in this county, goldie. I have watched this particular company work their magic on million dollar historic homes in the West Hills of NW PDX (on Thurman Street in particular) and they are trained and certified for it. No history of an accidental house fire on their record. I would not trust anyone else. It sure takes care of the lead chips and dust. The technicians use masks and respirators, of course.

I know a man and his painter in one of the downtown neighborhoods were fined an enormous amount of money for sanding old paint and letting the dust and chips settle around the house and onto neighboring properties. They had to remove all the soil and replace it and the landscaping that was disturbed. Some painters, as a result, refuse to work on old homes any longer.

I did not even consider the asbestos issue with popcorn ceilings. That I don't have, thankfully.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc @ 6:29: I agree that these sign holders may have been hired by some enterprising politico. It probably won't take a crack reporter too long to hunt them down for an enlightening interview. I doubt the persons who hired them, if this happened, identified themselves, though.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:53 a.m.

The risk for a fire is always there. I'm almost positive their bond insurance is through the roof.

I remember hearing about the same thing happening at a city hall...I believe it was in Ridgefield or somewhere like that. Sounds to me like the painters weren't doing their job right. Here's a link to the current EPA regulations on working around lead paint:

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 6:59 a.m.

It's sad that today, a person cannot work alone (or in tandem in this case) to shout out their own political grievances without being tagged or labeled as being junkies or someone's hired hands.

If I put a sign I made on my husband's truck's back window, stating NO CRC, Oregon...would that make me a Madore follower? Hardly. If I had a T-shirt made at a screen printer's shop that I paid with my own money, stating "Vote for Mickey Mouse," would that mean I'm being paid out by Disneyland? Of course not.

My point...these two people had cardboard signs. Yeah, they may be regulars on the street corner, but don't they have a right to voice their opinions without labels???

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc: I moved over here 10 years ago and found a job in my area of expertise within walking distance of my home. I parked my car (which, as a 2005 model still only has about 65,000 miles on it) and regained health and stamina from daily walks to work. In Portland, I was driving 70 plus miles a week and sitting in 90 minute traffic jams trying to make my way back home here daily.

Enjoyed your attempt to reel me in to your need for incessant fights. I'd rather focus on commonalities and civil, educational discussion.

There is a reason I limit my direct interactions with you. Sometimes I just need you to remind me why. Thanks! :)

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Of course these folks have a right to express themselves. They sure used creative and colorful language and got loads of attention. Brilliant and powerful.

My point is this: there is a story to be revealed IF they were handed those signs by someone with an agenda and PAID for holding them.

Might not have happened that way, but, it is a question worth asking and investigating.

In the final days of this election, I am skeptical of all messages we receive from everyone.

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Morning Gold and Manthou. Thanks for the painter tips. We got no lead to deal with (had in old house and just sprayed over the popcorn ceiling. Worked well).

I am not trying to underpay a painter and get it for cheap and cheat the man. I value good, honest work and feel people need to be paid for their work. I am more concerned with a stranger in my house, doing a bad job, and overcharging me for it. We had some wildly different quotes the last time, ended up painting it ourselves. We typically buy the VOC free paint from Miller, very happy with it. This is a large job, and to do it ourselves...well, three months would be the time estimate. Minimum. With lots of bickering. LOL, cannot handle that.

As to the "bad" words, Gold. I know the game you guys are playing, even if it gets nasty. I got no problem with it .I find it funny overall. I am just curious why we get away with much here. Manthou might be right. If nobody complains, they leave us alone.

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding current House CMTE on Obmacare rollout:

Rangel had a great rant on GOP obstructionism and woefully pondered the end of the republican party, with no questions asked! Ya gotta love it.

It does bring a little balance to the repetitive questioning and statements on the ACA itself, which is not what this hearing is supposed to be about. (I must be getting way old to be interested in watching this!) ((where's the prune juice?))

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sebelius better load up on anxiety dope. This is just a warm up! Rep McDermott also bringing balance. I think Robert's opened this door intentional about individual states opting for exchanges.

No doubt salivating this moment with an early morning scotch & stogie.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.

Be careful when you hire. Get in writing a timeline if time is a concern. We paid top dollar for an inside paint job that took twice as long to complete as was told. Also costs "escalated". At the end of the day, the job was barely adequate, overpriced but just within contractual agreement, and the bulk of it was done by this guy and his son out of a Co. in Washougal, although we were promised a three to four person professional crew.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. - holycrapola — October 29, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.

We regards to the sign wearers. If they were paid hacks, it's impossible to determine who paid them off. (outside of checking nearby outside security camera's if they exist, prayer, forthcoming benefactors, or conducting latent DNA samples from sign's/money:) Whoever did could have lied at the time of payment to CYA themselves.

Again, it's most likely those who are losing this debate with public opinion. Given the Sohn/Madore crowd and there recent antics, most likely from the No Tolls crowd. At least Madore hasn't placed armed sycophants on street corners-yet.

Hope this doesn't become a trend in the future. Local politics are muddied enough.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.

See? Exact type of scenario I am worried about when hiring a painter. Seen this happen before. Sigh.

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m.

Well manthou, with a response to my comment like the one you presented...I see we do have some common perspectives worth noting. Well stated.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 29, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.

Luvit, I wish the best for you in finding a reputable painting contractor who will provide you with the best job for the money. Keep in mind though...we're into the damper months of the year. That might affect the overall wear and tear of your investment.

As for the "bad" words...I'll try to be a "good" girl. Sometimes, it is my crazy humor playing the game whenever that irritating diatribe continues to repeat and repeat and repeat and....well, you know what I mean, don't you??? Gray bars work instantly, but I don't care to use it. It would be a form of censorship, even IF the repetitive diatribe is annoying....8)

All in fun!!!

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As of 9:25am, Josh Egan has not stated as fact that the two were paid off by someone. It was only an assumption.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 29, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.

I like roger's response. Bullseye, roger!

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 29, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. - goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.

With - The Crane - admittedly hovering over the Vancouver landscape, endlessly searching for the evil purveyors of dick signs, something will pop up. (no doubt Carol's beak laden with two one dollar bills to double her Madore backed expenditures:)


Drift- If it's any comfort, while getting a script refill, I spoke with a pharmacist this morning about proposed re-scheduling of hydro-codone. He said the earliest would be a year out. He said he's seen this type of stuff drag on for years, and I could tell he agreed with me about it being uncalled for.

The war on quality obtainable pain relief medication rages on.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 29, 2013 at 5:11 a.m.

The saga continues...

///Obama Administration Refutes NBC News' Obamacare Report///

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Stevie Mathieu tweets that, with only one week to the election deadline, only 11% of the ballots mailed have been returned.


Could it be that under 20% of registered voters will be making the decision for us all? Will Madore be able to qualify his post-election victory or defeat statements to reflect that none of the advisory votes reflect anything but the opinions of those voters who bothered to mark and mail their ballots? A fifth or less of registered voters?

What's the deal? Too many Freeholder candidates? Issues too complicated? Not smart/motivated enough to do research? Too smart and rich to be bothered? Too angry to participate? Too apathetic?

I doubt we are going to see a thousands of cars driving up to the drop box on Franklin next Tuesday.

Give me your thoughts, folks. Where are the Clark County voters?

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The nail, "The war on quality obtainable pain relief medication rages on."

Twice now you've reminded me to check my sources. And you most likely aren't even aware of it. The first had to do with a questionable link I offered, and the second was one you did ☺
I just thought I'd mention it.

There's no question opiate pain-killer abuse is one heck of an issue. Folks are dropping like flies. I won't go looking up the numbers (again), but fatal overdoses are at an all time high. The thing is, when the Powers That Be attempt to mitigate the issue it always seems like folks most hurt by it are legitimate users. Hell, nail, anyone can walk out their front door and buy a bag of heroin. And some legitimate pain patients are faced with that, or being racked in pain.

As I've preached time and again, if drug abuse were treated like a social health issue rather than a crime, there'd be a few less dopers out there, the incidence of O.D. would drop as well as blood borne disease.

When will we quit denying sick people their medicine and offer treatment (without criminal penalties) to those sick on dope?

Drift — October 29, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

She's just been spotted hovering over the all-you-can-eat buffet on 123rd, reportedly heading NE. [this story will be updated]

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rangle is to the left as Cruz is to the Tea Party.. They even each other out. Both Idiots in my mind but hey they get allot of readership with their "Far Out" views..Kinda ol school there.. Obamcare roll out is just one angst in the whole program. NBC points to 2010 that white house knew 67% of current policyholders would not be able to keep there current plans. They also knew that health care costs would increase. They also knew that they needed 28 million to be signed up in order to keep the current costs viable. More people have been kicked off there plans than hace signed up nationwide. But those people who already had a plan will either go to an exchange or outside the echnage wherever the best price is.. So those numbers will change. This whole program will change over the next couple years. This will be the biggest hit for dems come 14 as they stounchly defended the program. All it takes is an articulate R to spell out "deceit".. The prez pulled a fast one on the public and they won't let the dems forget come 14... People get pissed off when you start messing with there money...Now people are realizing for the first time that the price of their Insurance on the state run exchanges is based on income.. The Pres never said anything about that back in 08-10...

Don't worry
1. You'll be able to keep your doctor
1A. If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it
2. You'll save an avg of $2500 a year
3. Signing up will be like calling Comcast or getting a flight booked on Kayak ..
Im sure he goes to Kayak to book his flights... Dont like that Plan Air Force One still best value 2.4million per hr..
4. Obamacare will create jobs- Well this now maybe true LOL how many new hires to fix the rollout and the nationwide caravans going around the country trying to sign folks up.. But those will be temporary most likely
5. Obamacare will not increase the deficit. Yikes...

But most of us new this already.. Right..

vanwadreamer — October 29, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: You have posted that fantastic B Horror clip before and the resemblance is spooky, indeed. However did you search for it?

Happy Halloween in advance!

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 29, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.

"...and the second was one you did ☺"

My pharmacist? (Kaiser) Not trying to be a smart ass (kinda comes natural for me:) just trying to understand.

"As I've preached time and again, if drug abuse were treated like a social health issue rather than a crime, there'd be a few less dopers out there, the incidence of O.D. would drop as well as blood borne disease."

I couldn't agree more.

I understand there are many who abuse opiate based pain relievers and suffer negative consequences. But with the misinformation we've been fed about drugs over the years, everything from LSD causing birth defects to marijuana as a gateway drug, it makes me wonder as to the validity of some media pushed claims.

I don't know if bootleg products regarding some of these meds are prevalent like they were back in the day, but possibly this could be a source of abuse?

Also, I'm not aware of any stats, but I have to think marijuana testing in the workplace encourages many who self medicate to pursue other substances which the body gets rid of quicker, in order to not pop hot on a UA.

Legalizing all drugs with certain restrictions, combined with education and help centers would benefit America greatly imo.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 11:11 a.m

They may refute it but the info the IRS puts out backs it up.

ELISI — October 29, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.

And a Happy Halloween to you also! It's always fun to see the kids (adults also) excited this time of year. Sugar & monsters-oh my!

I'm a bit of a B horror movie buff. House on the Haunted Hill used to scare the bejesus out of me. As I grew up I appreciated the dynamics of the husband/wife relationship Vincent Price had with his spouse. (could be the scariest part!:) They just don't make horror films like they used to.

I Google searched-[House on the haunted hill movie+scary woman floating+youtube.]

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Give me your thoughts, folks. Where are the Clark County voters?

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 11:14 a.m.

I think they'll show and numbers will be slightly higher for an off year because of Madore/tea party driven issues. He's a lightning rod for sure. I think he and his ilk will be zapped this election.

I'm waiting on mine to coordinate family time to fill them out together at my daughter's request. Some of the issues seem murkily worded, especially to new comers like my daughter. (I'll try not to sway her in either direction---HA!)

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 29, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.

Time will tell. Many are already benefitting in numerous ways.

I hafta say, what is a politically viable alternative? I'm not hearing those on the right propose anything-nada. After all, this personal mandate was a republican driven idea, and nominating a republican presidential candidate whose implementation of the ACA is patterned after. Now, all of a sudden, it's government overreach. Another 'I was for it before I was against it-and against it ten fold because Obama's behind it' thingy.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, "My pharmacist? (Kaiser) Not trying to be a smart ass (kinda comes natural for me:) just trying to understand."

You posted a link to the news story about changing the schedule of Vicodin. I replied with an, "Oh great, what's next," kind of comment. You then came back and wrote I should take your source with a grain of salt.

Or something like that.
That's what I meant.

Drift — October 29, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 12:08 pm: Hope you are right. You know, The Stranger in Seattle always hosts a ballot-marking party in a pub. Not a bad idea: group fill in and beer to boot!

I was a Vincent Price freak myself, especially all the Edgar Allan Poe movies. I still think the old 30's Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney, and Boris Karloff films are the best. Time to dig them up for nostalgia and seasonal cheer.

And then there's Mystery Science Theatre 3000. Loved the fun with those B SciFi films!

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Today, the almighty holystrabismus teaches you ALL how to set yourselves up for an ophthalmologist or neurologist appointment in the very near future by following his directions!!! Just close your eyes and follow his directions!!! can anybody literally follow his directions with their eyes closed??? Ah yes...a memory test!

(sarcasm ended)

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 29, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. (

Thanks for the explanation Drift. Do you know of any stats about "I have to think marijuana testing in the workplace encourages many who self medicate to pursue other substances which the body gets rid of quicker, in order to not pop hot on a UA." idea? One of my daughters who used to work in the fast food industry told me about the big time use of heroin/pain meds in her workplace, while same by & large weren't using cannabis. It got me to thinking along these lines.

Another reason for complete unfettered adult marijuana legalization.


[Crane story update]

OMG! She's just been spotted downtown! She just threw Topper & Moeller off the Esther Short Park bell tower! Wait-she's going down!

.....alright alright, I'll stop now :)

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Crane has perched upon the scolding hot timber in her eye, claiming to have landed on the evildoers of dick signs. She's saying there is no way to prove 'who done it', while yelling at everyone to prove their accusations or shut up! And in the same breath insinuating the "party in power" is responsible!

Health check time!

Carolyn Crain · Top Commenter · John Adams High School
Okay so i found them last evening. No they do not know who hired them by name. Gave me a description which could match dozens of people in Clark County but does not match David Madore nor Bill Turlay. So to those of you who wish to continue this line of questionable character asassination I say stop it. Either prove it or shut up. This is ridiculous now. I am left believing that the party in power has pulled this as the most below the belt stunt to harm the legitimate campaigns of their opposition. No one with ethics would do this and so that seems to fit. By the way, who ever you are, the poor girl that was working for you last night dang near got arrested for being homeless. How mean can you be?
Reply · 1 · · 35 minutes ago

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I guess anyone can play this game. I found these people at the doorstep of local GOP HQ!

They were actually wearing disguises. The woman slowly peeled away her mask as a crowd of anxious teabaggers looked on. It was DM in drag! While DM was smiling broadly, the the other one ripped off his full body suit to reveal and confirm our biggest fears. It was Mumbles! Yes, M&M; were responsible for this whole charade.

And while attention at GOP HQ were distracted, I saw this corpulent figure relieving a few in the crowd of their wallets. Repubs either seemed to notice or seemed to enjoy the touch of this stubby fingered man. One of the patrons turned around and said-Don! I thought you were at Billygans!

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail shame on you. You are stooping to the level of Ms. Crain. But that was funny. You didn't by any chance steal that from Temple Lentz did you. One thing I don't understand is how Madore can align himself with someone like Ms.Crain. She is no asset to his or Turlay's campaign. It is almost as if she is the mirror opposite of Mike Yancey. They both make about as much sense.

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

@@@@@ October 29, 2013 @@@@@ 2:51 p.m. #corpulent thief

I apologize for this hastily written post with it's grammatical errors, and errors I'm not educated enough to label them with. Other than that, it's 100% true! I swear it on my teabagger bible and on Grover's anti tax pledge print out paper.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.

I'm not worthy to mentioned in the same breath as Temple. She's one of a kind and a Vancouver treasure or sure.

Crane has issues without a doubt. How anyone can take her seriously is beyond me.

If she ever gets voted into any elected position, it will no doubt bring 'cry's' to revise the qualification requirements for holding said office. And as for those who would vote for her........that's for another time and place. A land filled with expletives and dinosaurs.

Madore is almost as bad, just packaged differently.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'll bet the Mayor of St. Paul and Mayor Leavitt could share some funny stories about the characters opposing their re-election.

JohnK — October 29, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know Nail I was thinking that these Tea Party people are more like the caricature's in Alice in Wonderland. Who would you have playing the Mad Hatter, or for that matter the mean Queen?

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd say Madore for the Mad Hatter and Turley's wife for the mean Queen.

hawkeye — October 29, 2013 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey John, that was really funny. Some of these people. That lady said she was 74, I'll bet Carolyn Crain will be just like that at 74.

hawkeye — October 29, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 29, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

Before making any kind of medical suggestion for anybody to utilize their eyes to focus on a region other than what is natural, you might look into the issues of strabismus. Your suggestion could cause years of pain and optic corrections for others, holydodobird.

goldenoldie — October 29, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.

I'd go with Madore for the Mad Hatter (stuck in time) & elevate Carolyn to Queen. (for temperament, and it would appease my sympathetic liberal side to dub her queen-for-a-day. (but only a day) after that, OFF WITH HER HEAD!

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 29, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.

Hilarious! From the land of Bachman & Ventura. I read the other day Ventura is considering a Presidential run in 16'.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Amidst all the dysfunction and division that's happening in national politics, I'm seeing something I like and hope continues. (anyone check out what's happening in Virginia in the 'Cooch' race?) A willingness from Democrat's to step up to the plate and look the monster in the eye. For too long we've allowed the right to control messaging and shape policy. The Dems are growing some. I think it's our time to be heard.

Bringing definition to those lines so often blurred. Preach it!

///Dem congressman to GOPer at Obamacare hearing: “Are you really serious!?”///

Rep. Bill Pascrell absolutely loses it during a House hearing on Obamacare VIDEO

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail when I was in my 30's I watched Ventura. I believe I might just vote for him. How many do we get to off with their head. I could come up with quite a list.

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Check out some of these numbers as they pertain to national party politics. Some of the trends are stunning! Republicans have much to fear in 14' & beyond.

-October 2013: Washington Post/Abt-SRBI Virginia governor's race poll-


timerick — October 29, 2013 at 7:34 p.m

You're the King timerick! Have at it! I've got a list myself. Cheney would be on it for sure. Quite a few Canuk's feel the same way.

///Canadians Seek Dick Cheney's Arrest For War Crimes During Upcoming Visit///

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW- Just kidding about Crane. Even though she seems wildly unreasonable, and a quite a few other things, she's harmless. No doubt testifying at public gatherings is cathartic for her and many others, and the cost we bear for it is minimal. (makes great comedy fodder!) It's those in power, and those who have corrupted our nation that alarm me. A few local's ills may be cured through love, hugs, intimacy, counseling, psychotherapy, cases of tissue, medical procedures etc.

Folks like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Delay would benefit greatly from incarceration. They could pull up a seat next to Jesse's kid and play some cards. Don't know if it would help Dubya, he might not understand what's happening.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Cheney has been protected by people like Rumsfeld and Dubya. You will never see that happen. That was a whole war machine created to avenge Dubya's father and create wealth for Cheney's empire. It worked well except for our young men and women that came back in box's or wounded so badly. It also wounded those of us here at home. I have seen it up close and very personal as our nephew came home from his second tour missing both legs and most of his right hand. He is a strong young man and now gives motivational speeches to schools and groups. We are very proud of him. He will also be competing in the Para Olympics. He does honor and believe in our country as do I. He hasn't said but I believe one day he will look back as I did and realize these wars were not worth the price. Last year at this very time he spent the week with us. I awarded the Purple Heart I was given almost 40 years ago to him. He displays it with pride. That is something I could no longer do. My war was very wrong. It took me years to realize that. I thought I was doing the right thing for my country. My how life and years change us. I still give of my time and money to help all Veterans and I always will. Bless this country and lets make it better together. I believe we all want the same things and we can get there. Sorry for the rant.

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Cheney has been protected by people like Rumsfeld and Dubya. You will never see that happen. That was a whole war machine created to avenge Dubya's father and create wealth for Cheney's empire. -- timerick — October 29, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

"avenge Dubya's father". "Create wealth for Cheney's empire". those are quite the statements timerick. Care to elaborate?

kn_dalai — October 29, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have no problem condemning the Bush administration, but the Obama administration is no better. Obama's drone policy has both accidentally and intentionally killed non combatants.

frobert — October 29, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No kn_dali I don't care elaborate. These are my feelings and have been for several years. I don't think I will change them.

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

No need to feel sorry for your rant. Rant away. It's inspirational and heartwarming. If we had more self reflecting and sincere gentlemen such as yourself, we could stop these senseless wars. Your post causes me to look within myself and ask what more should I be doing? Again-inspirational. You answered your country's call for duty with honor and sacrifice, no one could ask or expect more. Thank you for that.

Your nephew sounds wonderful. Very few can experience something so personal and tragic, turn it outward, and better the lives of others. Quite a man. Your awarding him your purple heart-your sincerity- your generosity towards others-I don't know what to say, accept I feel honored beyond words that you took the time to express yourself in this way.

"Bless this country and lets make it better together."

It's folks like you that give me hope for just that. I guess I'm getting emotional in my old age. But wow.....again-Thank You Tim.

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 9:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 9:28. I can tell you feel deeply about our Veterans from your own personal experience and through your nephew. I'll bet he appreciates your example and your loving support. The para olympics is an amazing program and I wish him well on that, and his other endeavors. Sounds like he has made great progress on a long recovery.

I have always said that we all have much more in common than we do differences. If we stop feeding our addiction to fighting and arguing and put our good ideas together......

manthou — October 29, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 9:41 p.m.

And timerick, I don’t blame you for a second. I remember when you first mentioned your nephew a few weeks ago. I grieve for him.

But you have made unsupportable accusations about Bush and Cheney which are the product of Leftist hate mongering. That just is not right.

kn_dalai — October 29, 2013 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thank you manthou and nail. I have always respected your views. I may not have always agreed but the respect was there. Sometimes it feels good to get things out. I know some won't agree with me and that is ok. We all are in this together and we will have to come out together. Hopefully we can put differences aside and make this a better place for our childern and their future. I do believe we can. I know wishful thinking but it is worth the effort.

timerick — October 29, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Ohio Governor Defies G.O.P. With Defense of Social Safety Net///

COLUMBUS, Ohio — In his grand Statehouse office beneath a bust of Lincoln, Gov. John R. Kasich let loose on fellow Republicans in Washington.

“I’m concerned about the fact there seems to be a war on the poor,” he said, sitting at the head of a burnished table as members of his cabinet lingered after a meeting. “That if you’re poor, somehow you’re shiftless and lazy.”

“You know what?” he said. “The very people who complain ought to ask their grandparents if they worked at the W.P.A.”

Ever since Republicans in Congress shut down the federal government in an attempt to remove funding for President Obama’s health care law, Republican governors have been trying to distance themselves from Washington.


He embodies conventional Republican fiscal priorities — balancing the budget by cutting aid to local governments and education — but he defies many conservatives in believing government should ensure a strong social safety net. In his three years as governor, he has expanded programs for the mentally ill, fought the nursing home lobby to bring down Medicaid costs and backed Cleveland’s Democratic mayor, Frank Jackson, in raising local taxes to improve schools.

To some Ohio analysts, those moves are a reaction to the humiliating defeat Mr. Kasich suffered in 2011 when voters in a statewide referendum overturned a law stripping public employees of bargaining rights. Before the vote, Mr. Kasich’s approval in this quintessential swing state plunged.

Now, as the governor’s image has softened, his poll numbers have improved heading into a re-election race next year against the likely Democratic nominee, Ed FitzGerald, the executive of Cuyahoga County.


In some ways, his balancing act has scrambled the usual ideological alliances. A Wall Street Journal editorial last week mocked his religion-based explanation for expanding Medicaid and labeled him “the Apostle Kasich.”

But mental health groups that usually find Democrats more sympathetic are cheering. “It’s been an astonishing thing to watch,” said Terry Russell, executive director of the National Alliance for Mental Illness in Ohio. “Since he’s become governor we’ve received more for mental health care than any time in the past 20 years.”

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Still, the governor got nowhere with the legislature, where Republicans hold majorities in both houses and many conservatives are rankled with his half-embrace of Mr. Obama’s law. The right flank had dealt him an earlier defeat, refusing a proposal to raise taxes on oil and gas companies and use the money for an income tax cut — which Tea Party supporters called redistributing wealth.

Ohio’s legislative districts have been drawn to create safe seats, a dynamic that increasingly pulled the General Assembly to the right. “So many of these legislators are really concerned about a Tea Party challenge,” said John C. Green, a political scientist at the University of Akron.

The Ohio Liberty Coalition, a network of Tea Party groups, threatened a primary challenge to any lawmaker supporting the governor on Medicaid expansion.

“We said, You’re supposed to be about limited-government and free markets, and we’re here to hold you accountable,” said Ted Stevenot, president of the Tea Party coalition.

As a result, Medicaid expansion never came up for a vote in the General Assembly. The budget that lawmakers sent the governor in June even prohibited the expansion of Medicaid. But Mr. Kasich vetoed the item, and last week he did an end-run through a special committee known as the Controlling Board, which approves day-to-day adjustments to the budget.

Read more @

nailingit — October 29, 2013 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick, I also thank you for your service. And your nephew's as well. You have no need to apologize for the 'rant' as you call it. Although I never served I have a brother who did. When he came home he was a different person. He did put it on a shelf and moved on with his life. He did stay in for thirty years as a reservist. I know he had some problems adjusting to the attitude of those who protested the war. The ones who went to such extremes that they spit on them and called them baby killers really got under his skin.

You have every right to 'rant' as you call it but I call it letting people know that war is not the answer. The price is way too high for some. Everyday I thank someone for their service. I hope they can recover and if needed get help if they are struggling getting back into society. Back when my brother severed the were still calling it battle fatigue. (upgraded from shell-shock) The help was negligible at best.

JohnCasey — October 30, 2013 at 5:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dubya had every reason to believe Saddam initiated an assassination attempt on his father.

Whether this is the real reason we went into Iraq is unknown - the right of the government to conceal secrets from us keeps things like this from coming to light. I do know the invasion under Dubya made little sense. We were after al Qaeda - Saddam had no use for those people; they were supported by his enemies in the region. The CIA repeatedly showed there was no proof of the claim of WMD stockpiling. Further, what we didn't know (publicly) then was that the use of Sarin on the Kurds was more likely done by Iran - The CIA had reported on this, as shown in documents since released. Anyhow, when something doesn't make sense, we tend to look for reasons. We do know Bush Sr was very tight with the Saudi royal family, and that they were increasing concerned over Saddam's lack of contrition (there's probably a better word, but at 0530....) after being spanked during Gulf I. Maybe that's the reason?

Cheney came from Halliburton. That company received several "no bid" contracts when we went into Iraq - complaints about these awards was ignored due to the "required expediency" of the situation. There were many complaints up military channels about performance, endangering troops, and a few other things - all squashed. (I believe some Oregon Guardsmen are suing their subsidiary KBR - a judge ruled against KBR last year, and I think that's still in the appeals process.) (A tie in to Monsanto and Agent Orange - STILL being fought - could be made here.) Non-related decisions, such as fracking and the Clean Water Act, were also in Halliburton's favor during Dubya's administration. Cheney was reportedly involved in those also.

With government secrecy, we may never know. But there are a whole lot more of us who believe these allegations than just a crowd of left wing conspiracy theorists.

roger — October 30, 2013 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 29, 2013 at 6 p.m.

You are a fool of fools, holybrainless. You haven't a clue as to what you are saying. Just because you don't pop pills or inject, doesn't mean something isn't considered a medical treatment. You are living on the dangerous side by promoting such an "exercise" of "drug-free state of nirvana."

I certainly hope nobody has tried your "experiment."

Now...back to a discussion with people who actually exercise their brains rather than those who play with fire.

goldenoldie — October 30, 2013 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — October 29, 2013 at 9:28 p.m.

I too am quite skeptical as to why we went into Iraq when the absolute targeted individual was Osama BL. The article roger presented at 5:49 am is news to me. I'd never heard of anything about it before. Why is it our POTUS at the time hadn't said a thing to the people of the United States??? Didn't we have a right to know then???

Who do we blame for lack of transparency in this situation? The President? The News? We couldn't possibly understand why Bush ordered the attacks on Iraq through intuitive thinking or instinct. Either way, I don't think such an attack was warranted by GWB...and he DID have a personal vendetta in this situation, being that it was his father who was targeted. But then again, didn't he also get the "news" that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction???

Still a skeptic in me regarding Iraq. Too many unanswered questions, false data reporting to the POTUS at the time...

goldenoldie — October 30, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


George Tenet states he routinely briefed that there was no proof of Iraqi WMD. The Cheney/Card/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft group didn't like hearing this, and marginalized Tenet. This may or may not be true; Bob Woodward reported that Tenet's 2002 brief to the Senate Intelligence Committee included the infamous "slam dunk" statement, and that this was the reason they OK'd the invasion.

So - Who to believe? That's been our problem with just about every conflict we've ever been involved in.

roger — October 30, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 30, 2013 at 6:53 a.m.

Republican dysfunction on full display. Not a one wants this website or the ACA itself to function correctly. They look ridiculous and are in the basement digging holes, while pandering to their redneck constituency back home to get re-elected. Brow beating Sebelius will only help get Dems elected. Check out the trends in the Governor's race in Virginia.

What is different that I've noticed, is that Democrats are not only unified, but unified with resolve. Pushing back on this nonsense for all to see.

One half of what's wrong with politics is on full display right now. The other half lies with the partisan constituency who elected them.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: "Thanks for the explanation Drift. Do you know of any stats about 'I have to think marijuana testing in the workplace encourages many who self medicate to pursue other substances which the body gets rid of quicker, in order to not pop hot on a UA.' idea?"

Nope, not as far as crack, crank, chiva and whatnot.
I would speculate, however, that the "spice" market wouldn't exist if cannabis wasn't tested for in U.A.s. I mean, that's the whole selling point with the crap, right? And isn't that also why the junk is a moving target? What I'm saying is, when the active chemicals are outlawed and U.A. testing of the same are designed, the chemists simply tweak the formula a tad.

Yep, I'd imagine pot U.A.s are the driving force behind "spice", "bath salts" and other poisons of the same ilk.

Drift — October 30, 2013 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 30, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

Thanks for your input Drift. Right on to include the "spice" market as well.

I have to think history will judge US government cannabis prohibition, as one of our most backward thinking, destructive, and ridiculous government policies of the 20th century.

At least we're entering the 21st with a bit more perspective and intellectual honesty, although still a long road to hoe.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Informative interview videos of Turlay and Leavitt

The following two videos, produced by Jim Mains and Gary Bock of The Vancouver Side, are must-sees for anyone who is a voter in Vancouver. Both show a non-political peek of Bill Turlay (who is immensely likable, but whose wife is the obvious leader in that marriage) and Tim Leavitt (who is much more of an experienced career politician in his measured and guarded responses).

timerick: We both have opined that Stephanie Turlay is Bill's worse enemy in this election and it looks like she calls the shots for him in many other ways, too. Will it spill over if he is elected Mayor? One wonders. What a warm, nice guy Turlay seems, though, in this interview! Does not mean he will run Vancouver any better than Tim Leavitt, who has the better connections.

Neither of these videos have been publicized too much, but here goes. Enjoy both of them.

Bill Turlay interview:

Tim Leavitt:

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - thanks also from me. My spouse was military for a while also. Peace time, so we were spared many things. Now he aids vets in turn.

Gold et al. Yea to the whole total mess with our little adventure in Iraq. There's one arena where I say - follow the money. Who had high stakes there? Who made the money?

Goes way back to Preston Bush, grand pappy of them all. Cheney made out, too.
This was a glorious opportunity for certain folks. Had nothing to do with OBL who was never there in first place.

Just my take on things. Still disgusted with it all.

luvithere — October 30, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou you are right Mr. Turlay is a very nice man to talk with. I have met him a few times. He does have some big money supporters behind him. Not as big as Mr. Leavitt nor with as much power. I don't think Mr. Turlay will win. If he doesn't I do think that Leavitt has gotten the message that a lot of people do not like the way he has handled a few things. Also the advisory votes on the ballot may show him what the people want.That is why I supported the advisory votes. They don't set anything but they do convey what the voters would like to see. People need to fill out that ballot. That is all us commoners can do to convey how we feel.

timerick — October 30, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone following Steve Foster's well-reasoned criticisms of David Madore?

Steve Foster was the HR Director at Clark County for 10 years. His video testimony, critical of the Benton gift hire was posted on The Columbian in May.

His FB posts are articulate and he challenges Madore directly on Madore's FB page, respectfully, but pointedly. Madore answers him without really addressing the question, as usual.

I am happy to see that Madore is actually responding to the legal advice offered to him from the PA's office and re-wording his newest resolution to state only facts, not speculative allegations. Better late to the party than missing the fun altogether, I guess. Years of running his own show is a difficult mountain to move. He may be learning that it is important to weigh and edit one's words before they are published for public consumption.

One can hope.

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

" Not as big as Mr. Leavitt nor with as much power."

seems as best I can remember, madore backed turlay and wentzel for city council.

mrd — October 30, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: If we don't get a last minute Hail Mary turnout of voters, the advisory votes won't have a lot of statistical meaning, but they will be reported by politicians as being meaningful or meaningless, depending on the point-of-view they want to project.

We will only be able to technically and accurately report that "20% (fill in the final percentage of returned ballots) of the registered voters in Clark county say such-and-such....." In many legal decisions, one needs at least 51% to provide significance. In research, the percentage needs to be even higher. The larger the sample size (sample size here being the number of voters who turn in a ballot), the more reliable and valid the results. Statistics 101.

But, in the end, elections are won and lost by only one thing: the number of voters who turn in their ballots. Would the results look different if every registered voter turned in a ballot? I wonder. We'll never know, though.

I just don't understand how people can throw away their voting rights in such a cavalier manner. It disgusts and frustrates me. And worries me.

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"I just don't understand how people can throw away their voting rights in such a cavalier manner. It disgusts and frustrates me. And worries me."

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

manthou- It disgusts me also. Part of the reason lies within an uninformed electorate who propagate talking points such as, "they're all bad" "you can't trust any of them", "what we say makes no difference", they're all crooked", "vote them all out".

We see this logic exhibited in this forum week after week by a few. We see it on Face Book day after day, as well as parsing talking points to suit individuals mired in ideology and espousing a partisan agenda.

They might as well say "don't vote".

It's unfortunate many don't have the personal resolve, not only to cast aside these ridiculous talking points, but the energy and motivation to cast their vote for the betterment of the community in which they live.

Un-american in my opinion.

That's part of it.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Very true Nail. None of those excuses carry any water as far as I am concerned. To not exercise your rights is un American. They have made voting so easy there is no reason not to do it.

timerick — October 30, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My ballot went out this morning. I left the advisery options blank. What category do I fit in?

Drift — October 30, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick and nailingit: We are so lucky to have mail-in voting. If people in WA had to get out of the house, drive to a polling spot, stand in line, and then figure out the voting booth, we would have even poorer turn out.

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How about far out there Drift. Remember I read your book and have seen the true younger Drift. Has anyone had any trouble finding a doctor that will accept medicare? My wifes regular doc will not take medicare patients. We do have a insurance guy coming to talk with us tonight. She has to go on medicare the first of December. She did learn that Vancouver Clinic will be taking no more medicare patients.

timerick — October 30, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rounded up today, the percentage of ballots received in Clark County is now up to 13%. Six days and counting.

31,307 received out of a possible 246,857:

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Is it just me or has the Columbian disabled the FB comments on the ALIP blog? Maybe Carolyn Crain carried out her threat to shut them down, but I thought she wasn't going to do that until after next Tuesday's election.

JohnK — October 30, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — October 30, 2013 at 10:31 a.m.

A responsible (mailed in ballot) discretionary (essentially none of the above on an advisory measure) voter?

I guess I categorize those who exercise their right to vote as responsible and involved, regardless of party or choice.

Just personal opinion here. (wondering if Starbucks will accept my $1.280.9 for some java:)

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

I’m really wondering about the percentages you’re using. Sample sizes of only hundreds or a thousand or two, out of tens of millions of registered voters, taken by national polsters, are accurate to within usually a two to four percent margin of error, or so. A sample size of 20 % would have a margin of error of nearly zero. However, this assumes a random sample, which may not be the case in an election as one side may be more motivated to vote than the other. In that case, it could be that either side may be able to use that to spin the results.

kn_dalai — October 30, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer from last week (yikes): Thank you so much for the fishing report and the wonderful stories. They brought back less-than-happy fishing memories of my childhood (fish did not like to be caught by me, alas), but the family-togetherness aspect was valuable, even the mockery from my brother. Now that I'm older and wiser and have a few more skills, time on a river with a rod and line and perhaps a kingfisher swearing at me is something I savor. And yes, we'd best be kind to Mother Nature. Rumor has it that she bats last.

For those who like/appreciate fish butchering, here' a fun 2 1/2 minute CNN video (Justo Thomas at Le Bernardin):

pfaffmachine — October 30, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also, congratulations to the APIL writers! They've won an Editor & Publisher EPPY. Per Stephanie Rice's twitter:

Stephanie Rice ‏@col_cityhall 52m
"All Politics is Local" wins national award for best news/politics blog with fewer than 1 million hits

pfaffmachine — October 30, 2013 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: I am kinda confused by your question. Help me understand it better.

The data I used is from the Clark County elections website for current ballot returns. 13 percent is the return numbers-to-date. Divide the smaller number (total ballots received to date) by the number of ballots mailed: Voila. There is the percentage. Right now it is almost 13% when you round up.

Returns from 100% of the registered voters is a big, loud booming and assertive voice of the people. The more who vote, the more they get my attention.

Returns from 20% (or whatever the final number is) of the registered voters is a weak little squeak by comparison. It does not represent ALL registered voters. The information we glean from it, therefore, is limited.

The voices we hear are only the ones who cared to fill out the ballot and turn it in. Why are so many others willing to prevent their opinion from counting?

JohnK: I noticed that, too. Makes me wonder if there was a threat posted and they pulled all comments? I don't think you can comment on the story about the student who is in custody for bringing those weapons to school, either, last time I checked. Maybe just a glitch in this new system.

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Congrats to APIL. It draws traffic from all sides of a story: we live in a controversial area, politically!

manthou — October 30, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal

kn-dalai: I DID mention, in my earliest post on this, that politicians will spin the "voice of the people" in the way they wish. Whatever suits their perspective will be the "truth." David Madore, for example, will likely cheer a 20% voter turnout as, "The people have spoken!" Unless, of course, the people speak against his East County Bridge preference. By the same token, Jim Moeller will use the low voter turn out percentage to discredit any opinion that does not go his way, or he will applaud it if the 1-5 option is the favored bridge plan.

My point: from my perspective, a low voter turn out tells me very little about the true pulse of the entire county. I am still in the dark. I don't want to be in the dark and I want folks to get those ballots marked and mailed!

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"...the advisory votes won't have a lot of statistical meaning..." -- manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.

"Returns from 20% (or whatever the final number is) of the registered voters is a weak little squeak by comparison. It does not represent ALL registered voters. The information we glean from it, therefore, is limited." -- manthou — October 30, 2013 at 11:57 a.m

I take that to mean that you’re saying that the results of a low voter turnout does not accurately reflect the views of the larger population. Looking only at the percentages, statistically, the results of a 20% random sample of the population would be virtually the same as the entire 100% of the population. National polls taken by questioning only a relative handful of people are generally highly accurate, even though the poll participants are only a very small fraction of 1% of the entire population.

The only way to spin this is, rightly or wrongly, to claim that the results are skewed because one side was more motivated to vote than the other. Sort of like when one highly motivated side packs a hearing, and then complains that the board didn’t listen to them when the decision goes against them.

kn_dalai — October 30, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail 7:11am
The Rep are fighting for something they actually feel is a bad Law "ACA" AKA Obamacare and the lies that perpetuated it's implementation and roll out.. If you had a friend that has lied as much as the Pres has would he still be a friend, My guess Hell no for you.. His integrity is now past fixing and his Kingdom is crashing in all around him and most Dems are now trying to figure out how to distance themselves without making it obvious. Those Dems who are up for relection in 14 will certainly be pressed by there R counterparts..Repub just want to portray this pres for what he is... Isn't... With so many scandals biting at his and his parties heels they are in full defense mode.. The pres however continues to LIE. Other dems are now more concerned about the fallout than pressing forward on the health Bill Crisis.. Evryone now knows that the President "Misled not only the Voting public but everyone in his Party...

I for one would like to see Experts from the Health industry , and others get together and come up with a better option through solution based facts. I listened to a Surgeon on the Radio yesterday and she was very articualte about other solutions that would enhance out health industry. My health premium in Washington is about 26% more than in Oregon.. Being able to purchase health ins accross state lines should be a viable option.. Having more plan options, Why should I be forced to buy a policy with Materity coverage when I don't need it?? Yeah the R are having a hey day, but There not getting things fixed, nor do I think they will.. There is just too much obstruction going on the Hill.. Doesn'y have to be but it will stay until Obama is gone... Hope the next Pres is a bit smarter than the current one.
BTW I dropped my ballot off downtown last week. Felt good sliding it into the voting box...

vanwadreamer — October 30, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I get what you are saying: we should be able to generalize the 20% turnout (or whatever it will be) to all registered voters because it will be a valid representative sample. This happens all the time in research. Good point.

I am nonetheless disappointed that I do not get to hear from more of the voters.

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And they say the younger voters turn out during presidential elections.
Just sayin'. Heh.

Drift — October 30, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 30, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.

"BTW I dropped my ballot off downtown last week. Felt good sliding it into the voting box..."


As for denigrating our President, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Something I've asked you before, do you believe Barack Obama is a lawfully elected president who was born in the USA?

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, you can generalize IF you use a real sample when you conduct a poll. Those national polls? The sample works if it is truly a well stratified, representative sample (which usually also includes census weights after the fact), done with well established sampling guidelines.

For example, them polls of the C. Not so scientific.

luvithere — October 30, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes for GODS sake.. He was voted in and won the presidency.. I don't buy into any of those outlandished claims.. FYI i'm a Reg R but vote for I think is most qualified and actually has ideas that if implemented would benefit most of us... Thats why I don't like local Politics, bunch of Knucklehead Wanna bee politicians... I know most of these folks and knowing them is like not believing them. Like who's a cheater, of various neferious degrees.. Who drinks on the job and I could go on.That would be a just past C Comish.But I just had a root canal this morning and not in a god mood.

vanwadreamer — October 30, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dali-manthou: luvithere is right. A turnout of just 20% would be statistical overkill and highly representative of the population if those 20% were randomly selected, but they are not. They may be representative of those that voted, but that's about it.

I'm not sure how high the percentages would have to go before it would be valid to draw conclusions without using the variables normal to polling, but certainly it's much higher than 20%.

JohnK — October 30, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 30, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.

Good to know vanwa. Tell her I'll have the fridge stocked. GM #6 Tonite!

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK and luvithere: My spouse, who is a stats whiz, basically told me the same thing you did above as we discussed this very issue on our walk this afternoon. Just got back.

Not a true random sample.

Kn-dalai: You'll have to take it up with the good folks on here who are far smarter than I. :)

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Heroic Broken Sewage Pipe Floods Congress With Human Waste///

WASHINGTON—Calling the busted cylinder a national hero, sources confirmed Wednesday that a sewer pipe in the U.S. Capitol building valiantly burst open, pouring more than 1.5 million gallons of raw sewage into Congress and flooding the Senate and House of Representatives with human excrement, sludge, and wastewater. “Someone or something had to step up and fight for the American people, and when I heard that explosion and then saw congressman after congressman get swept up by a massive wave of feces and urine, I knew that sewage pipe had done something truly brave and extraordinary,” said one congressional source, adding the pipe’s heroics were evident from the outset when the initial explosion splattered Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) with wadded-up toilet paper, sanitary napkins, vomit, and cholera-containing pathogens. “Harry Reid must have guzzled down at least three thermosfuls of this brownish slop, and John Boehner was covered in human offal. Every Tea Party Republican, including Michele Bachmann and Steve King, had so much fecal matter on them that all you could see were the parts of their eyes where they wiped it away. They were all in one corner throwing up and dry heaving because of how putrid the smell was. This cracked sewage pipe deserves the Medal of Honor.” At press time, nobody was trying to fix the pipe.,34237/

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Budget deficit shrinks to five-year low///

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) recently appeared on Fox News and when the discussion turned to the budget, the Virginia Republican said lawmakers should be “focused on trying to deal with the ultimate problem, which is this growing deficit.”

In reality, the deficit is not growing; it’s shrinking. The AP reported this afternoon:

For the first time in five years, the U.S. government has run a budget deficit below $1 trillion.
The government says the deficit for the 2013 budget year totaled $680.3 billion, down from $1.09 trillion in 2012. That’s the smallest imbalance since 2008, when the government ran a $458.6 billion deficit.

This isn’t a surprising, at least not to the policy mainstream. Many congressional Republicans predicted tax increases on the wealthy that began in January would fail to lower the deficit, but as is usually the case, the opposite happened. The combination of new tax revenue and reduced spending did what exactly what was expected – it reduced the nation’s budget shortfall.

While this shouldn’t surprise anyone, the trend is a well-kept secret – national polling last year found that only 6% of Americans realize that the deficit is shrinking in the Obama era. Whether the public realizes it or not, the facts are not in dispute – the deficit is now down $400 billion from last year, and down nearly $800 billion from when President Obama took office.

This is the fastest deficit reduction seen in the United States since the end of World War II.

Just so we’re clear, I don’t consider this good news. On the contrary, I strongly believe the nation should be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.

That said, if we’re going to have a fiscal debate, it should be rooted in reality, not silly misconceptions. And the reality is, we’re witnessing deficit reduction at a remarkable clip.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 30, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. -- "I just don't understand how people can throw away their voting rights in such a cavalier manner. It disgusts and frustrates me. And worries me."

It should worry everyone. A public that doesn't stay engaged with the governing process is likely to become a subjugated public, with their right to input removed by those in power.

Want to place bets that the anti-Leavitt crowd is out in force working to get the votes to remove him? A low turnout ought to favor Turlay.

roger — October 30, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems that in addition to all the glitches, the national health care exchange website was released with a temporary security certificate - the final won't be issued until all the bugs are worked out. The administration isn't concerned, but the Repubs are making this another issue - someone is wanting to suspend everything for six months until they can get it right.

With this making the news, I suspect there are a few hackers who'll try to get in just to show they can. And unfortunately a whole slew of data miners wanting to see what's of value to them. This whole story is getting worse every day.

roger — October 30, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou and luvithere,

Here’s the thing: based on previous votes by the people; advisory vote number one, that’s the one about lite rail, will clearly be approved. I.E. no lite rail. Leavitt, et al, are going to have to scramble, to try and explain why this is. I maintain that most people in Clark County want nothing to do with lite rail, but the supporters will spin things for their own reasons.

Sorry manthou, but I see your take on the statistical thing, as a way to explain away the vote against lite rail as nothing but a preemptive strike against the future vote results, which will clearly show no support for lite rail.

kn_dalai — October 30, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lions Tigers & Bears- Oh Why!?

manthou-roger-et al A pretty cool site to view WA voting history-loads of stats

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Assuming the actual percentage of registered voters that actually vote is in the 30% range, it's going to be tough, even with a 2-1 margin, for either side to claim 20% of the voters represent the majority position. ..Not that they won't try.

JohnK — October 30, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger --- Did you see this? This is from Hinton. Sorry, he can't spell your name.

FWIW: my votes.
Well, here's the list. If anything is left off, it's because I didn't vote for it.

District 2 Freeholders:

Seat 1: Hann

Seat 2:

Seat 3: Pike

Seat 4: Nelson

Seat 5: Miller

langenthal — October 30, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hinton...endorsing roger...Hinton...endorsing roger...Hinton...endorsing roger.

No matter how many times I repeat it, it just doesn't sound right.

I thought trick or treat was tomorrow night.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This doesn't go quite far enough Liz. Why pay 18-21 year olds anything? Let em' starve till they can afford bootstraps to pull themselves up by. Pension cuts? Strip their pensions and by business leaders yearly vacations in the Bahamas. City project workers should get no more than minimum wage, and zero eco standards should be the rule. Taxes? What are those? These people are not only business leaders Lizzy, they're Gods!

Has Liz turned into a Liberal?

CAMAS — State Rep. Liz Pike on Wednesday shared a wish list with Clark County business leaders of the regulatory reforms she hopes to pass during future legislative sessions.

The Camas Republican's list includes: a six-month training wage for workers 21 and younger that would be lower than minimum wage; a cap on the amount a business must pay if its worker is injured on the job while under the influence of drugs or alcohol; pension cuts for seasonal employees working nine or fewer months each year for a small city; and prevailing wage exemptions for city projects that cost less than $5 million. Prevailing wage is the rate a business must pay its construction workers when they build a public project, such as a highway.

Another bill would create a new oversight process when a state agency, such as the Department of Ecology or the Department of Revenue, creates a rule. If that new rule meets enough resistance from legislators, industry groups or voters, or if costs a business at least $10 million, then that rule would be reviewed by state lawmakers.

"The agencies are run by nonelected bureaucrats," Pike told eight Clark County business owners and industry representatives gathered at her district office Wednesday morning.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've been boning up on Liz. Extremist to the max. Even lists comedian Rush Limbaugh as an inspiration on her face book page. Hard to believe anyone takes her seriously. I guess money can buy love.

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


who's "hinton"?

DeeLittle — October 31, 2013 at 1:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, as a person in Lizzie's district, we who know her for the most part do not take her too seriously. She is a panderer of the worst kind. Not too bright either.

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 5:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, it's like this.

It seems most people know of me due to my anti-CRC stance, and all the associated commentary. This appears to lead them to believe I'm an advocate of small government.

I'd prefer people understand that I'm opposed due to 1) It does little to solve the congestion; 2) Variable tolling places a disproportionately high share of the cost on the commuters and small businesses that use the bridge on a daily basis; and 3) We were cheated out of our right to vote on the light rail component (the opinion of a bought State AG notwithstanding).

I want things to make sense and be done properly.

We were discussing the ACA at work earlier this week - A coworker was commenting that this was going to hurt her husband's business to the point he was thinking of shutting down. I threw in my usual - That if they'd stuck with the plan and gone with a single payer/Medicare for all approach, we wouldn't see all the crap happening now. She changed her opinion of me - I'm not a socialist after all; I'm a communist.

Oh well.

roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK - I went and found Hinton's web page.

Dennis is a Democrat and an obvious No.
Mishchuk's facebook page shows he has "friended" too many of the evil ones of Vancouver - e.g. Tim Leavitt. Besides, he's a Russian. (The anti-Russian sentiment around here reminds me of Germany. Dimitry posted a picture of someone's sign that says "Elect Dimitriy (sic) Mishchuk Because You've Never Voted For A Russian". He's obviously got a sense of humor and is entertained - some of his friends are horrified.)
So why did he endorse me, rather than leaving the position blank? I noticed he's posted his ribbon rack, and suspect the answer lies with professional courtesy.

roger — October 31, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 30, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. AND roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:46 a.m.

Nails, from my perspective, I believe roger's involvement in the forum as well as the FB side all this time has been to his advantage. Roger, you have proven yourself well by keeping a level head in the discussion. You bring out the facts and base your opinion on the facts. You are open to listen to the opinions of others and have no qualms about checking the information further before rendering your thoughts, but when you see something as wrong, you won't hesitate to point that out. That speaks volumes, Roger.

You know why I think folks from all walks of life are voting for Roger??? Because they recognize him as the only sane one in this insane world. I wish you good luck, Roger. This voter has chosen you...8)

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:46 a.m.

Last night, a neighbor approached a vehicle nobody recognized and talked with the driver after reports of people walking around with flashlights and loading items into a utility trailer were circulating around. They had stated the vehicle was being watched since our neighborhood crime prevention team is quite visual and on top of everything as soon as an issue arises. The man in the vehicle WITH his fellow companions became belligerent and tried to throw the race card...even though the neighbor who was talking with him also had the same heritage in their family history. It turns out, they had a viable reason for being there...but my point in telling you this is sort of connected to your comment about Dimitry Mishchuk. Throwing in the fact that nobody's voted for a Russian before...even in jest... might throw his chances of being elected. Who wants to vote for someone just because of their nationality??? (and some of my friends are from Russia, so no prejudice on Mr. Mishchuk)

Soon, we will all know who wins the freeholder position you are seeking.

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding Syria...

It is my deepest hope that the demolition of chemical weapons-making equipment is a gesture of good will and that they are honest in their actions. I can't say why...maybe it's my intuition or maybe it's just my skepticism...I still cannot trust their government.

Am I alone in my thoughts on this subject?

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Adobe sent me an email last week, warning me that their site had been hacked and my credit card information vulnerable.

Anyone else get that happy notice?

Well, it looks like the hack was much worse and passwords are vulnerable:

manthou — October 31, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 5:38 a.m.

"Not too bright either."

That was my assessment as I watched a 2012 video of her endorsing teachers to conceal & carry, in order to detour mentally disturbed people from school shootings. (!?!) Seems kinda dim witted. And her & Madore are best buds.

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

I agree. It could be his ticket to a back door win. We need balanced opinion and roger provides that for sure.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 31, 2013 at 7:18 a.m.

Bummer and sorry to hear it. I've often wondered what the fix will be for hackers in all areas going forward. From national security to banking to personal communication, things will only escalate.

Maybe it was the NSA. :}

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy Halloween! Scare the hell out of someone today. Looking forward to trick or treating with the grandkids tonite.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

Have fun with your grandkids tonight! Wish mine were here, it's the youngest first Halloween that he can go do, oldest is 15 and not into trick or treats. They live in Alaska and both sick with a fever and stomach virus. So Gram being Gram sent a "treat" package.

ELISI — October 31, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I found it interesting/curious (cough, Lou) that the large majority of Pike business kitchen cabinet members are donors, which isn't necessarily wrong or unusual. However, if Rep. Pike wants to make a case for her willingness/ability to listen to an assortment of viewpoints, this isn't her finest moment.

pfaffmachine — October 31, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 31, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.

Good night spasmodic dysphonia-Hello otolaryngologist!

A much requested bedtime story from all my kids growing up.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Slow forum today. For anyone who enjoys a great B horror movie, one of my all time favorites. Enjoy the ride.

Rawhead Rex

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail 7:18 this morning

I was one that said giving more of your personal info to the gov was a bad thing. Just last week I said this. They've already hacked it.. Just like when were suppose to have our Health info online which Bush started and has yet to come to fruition. I think it's a totally bad idea. Just another way to steal identity as well.

Some democrats in several states looking for ways to stop people from falling off their current Ins policies and those that choose or can't get health insurance due to the crashing of the health websites.These are Dems that are in for huge fights to keep their seats. Joe manchin, Landrieu, both said thats not what they were told By the administration AKA; Obama...I'm thinking more Dem seats are going bye bye in 14..Just wish harry Reids seat was up because he is a dead Duck, QUACK, Quack...Kinda interesting how none of the folks that were at the Healthcare signup yesterday in Vancouver were not able to actually sign up and buy insurance. This administration is in for a very tough next few years and the Dems all of which voted "unaminously" for Obamacare and which every Rep voted against.. Who will have a better chance come there next term there seat is up for relection.. I'm thinking some Dems will be going away, and why, they never read the bill in the first place, They will Blame Obama also as he promissed all these things but in fact none are coming true... You can't mess with peoples money, they will revolt.. I'm thinking that revolt is just getting going... The bottom line is what's going to happen when we only get 10% of the required amount of folks signed up thru the exchanges.. I'm thinking those great premiums will be going up, and most likely way up.. You can't insure a few, especially those with much higher ins costs due to the fact they are sicker, less healthier and so on.. You can't have a bunch of more or less healthier people on a plan that has low cost, it will just go Bankrupt...

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 1:27 p.m.

"They've already hacked it.."

Please provide a source for this. Who is "they" and to what degree is the damage? First I've heard about it.

I'm not seeing the apocalypse that you are. I will say if it's not fixed by the beginning of December, more than likely Dems will suffer at the booth.

If republican lawmakers were enacting state exchanges this wouldn't be such a large problem. Good thing just a fraction of Americans will utilize this service. That in and of itself will mitigate political fallout.

At some point, hopefully, republicans and their donors will understand this law is going nowhere, and attempt to work and better this system, rather than roadblock against and root for it's failure. At least AARP is being pro-active.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"If republican lawmakers were enacting state exchanges this wouldn't be such a large problem."

The same republicans that adamantly refused to fund the implementation of the exchanges?The same Republicans that wanted the states, not the feds as originally planned, to manage the exchanges? So they got their wish, and now refuse to implement their states' exchanges? Oh, the irony of it all.

mrd — October 31, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You can't have a bunch of more or less healthier people on a plan that has low cost, it will just go Bankrupt...
vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 1:27 p.m.

oh dangnabbit! Is this why Germany is so near, eh, bankruptcy...poor..ahem, whatever?

Why, thanks for clarifying this one.
PS: Germans all have insurance, in case you did not know. Even the poor ones. And last time I looked, uns geht es recht gut!

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You are correct; The R didn't want to fund something so critically wrong. You hit the Nail on the head. Everything you said is absolutely true. The ACA is not affordable and those on the Right knew it as I did as well. I'm in the Ins Business and knew from the start this ACA was not going to work as Promised by the President. Just because you lower some peeps health bill doesn't mean they will buy it. That 27 yr that has to pay $200 for healthcare most likely isn't, they want their cell phone and other gadgets. When some people are getting a better deal than the masses then you have a problem. I deal with it daily. We have 20% of folks driving around without insurance in CC which is required. Do you think 50% of them would get INS if we made it cheaper, Heck no... And most are younger people.The Rep are not refusing to implement any exchanges, where is that happening. The states of which there are 17 or so which have state run exchanges are run by the State and administered through the state Insurance commissioner’s office and the fed government. States like ours developed their own exchange and computer model. There is not a state that I know of that has folks trying to stop the progress of the state exchanges. That's been a done deal for 1.5 years.


Neither Dem nor Rep enacted the state exchanges. Those were determined by the state’s Governor whether they wanted to have their own exchange or work with the federal government and have them implement one in there state. That’s not a dem nor Rep plan.One of the biggest issues I see right now that may come to fruition is the selling of health plans across state lines. The same plan in Oregon would cost about 26-30% than here in Washington. AARP, government subsidized company. I know many who do not do business with them for exactly that reason. You are right we need to get good thinking heads and not politicians together to figure the best course to take that has the least impact on us. Both parties should have a couple liaisons and find others to form a committee, LIKE THE NEW BCS for Football. Geez they even have Condi Rice on the board, that’s at least thinking outside the box..Whether the health exchanges actually do get up and running won't change the current ACA, what it will do is probably what the pres wanted all along which was to go to the single payer program, Socialized medicine.. If your making less than 250 your taxes won’t go up, Liar, If you want your current doctor you can keep them, Liar, You can keep your plan if you "LIKE" it, Liar the avg family will save $2500 a year Liar, He got 4 Pinocchio’s on fact finder yesterday.. Wa Post. I still haven't seen a comprehensive plan from the Right, that's a fact, they should have been F*&^% working on one since this plan was voted in by every Democrat in the house and senate.. No plan no gain. Quit complaining until you have a plan...

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.

I don't even know where to start.

On second thought.

"They've already hacked it.."

Please provide a source for this. Who is "they" and to what degree is the damage? First I've heard about it.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We're up to a whopping 14% today in returned ballots.

5 days left to get them in.

manthou — October 31, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes they do. But so does most of europe and thwy are going Bankrupt slowly. Taxation for health Insurance can only go so high. The system is strangling their healthcare system musch as it is in most of the european countries that have similar Socialized medicine. It's ok when most of your popolation is younger but that is not the case now, same with our country, we have more baby boomers now reaching 65 than ever before and that number will continue to increase. People will end up outstripping health care which in turn will increase costs where evntually the entire system will have to be revised. Right now 70% of those signed up through all the exchanges are for medicare. These people are the poorest and in most cases the unhealthiest.. This whole healthcare problem is enormous, no getting around it. As my mom says you can't take from peter to pay paul.. If your up for paying in upwards of 60% in taxes you can have socialized medicine, thats the only way it's working in Europe... Once you over tax then the economy goes to yes "Hell in a hand basket" another Motherism... It's not simple, I don't have the answers, I just know how on this side it will work or not.. You can't have two families wanting to buy the same plan paying Thousands of dollars a year difference for the same plan. But NRD if you like Germany's plan move there and let us know how your doing in a couple years..

Auf Wiedersehen

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Germany individual income tax rates, 2013
Tax % Tax Base (EUR)
0 Up to 8,130
14% 8,131-52,881
42% 52,882-250,730
45% 250,731 and over

Today's exchange rate: 1 Euro = 1.3577 USD

roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Vandreamer - why is it that if one disagrees with some people they always suggest one should leave the country? is that your answer?

How about some folks educate themselves a little with some travel?
Last I looked, it is the countries with austerity programs that pretty much hurt regular folks and left the fat cats dancing in the streets.

Roger, yes, tax rate in Germany was and is high. Here, much lower. But, as a wee little example, as to how this really goes. Property tax on my parents' house? A little fee. Less than 100.
Here, they stick it on at the end, a little here, a little there. School taxes, city tax, county tax, water tax, septic tax, cemetery tax, crap tax, etc. Tax me, baby! You either get it at the beginning or you get it at the end.
.Anybody really think we pay taxes just on paycheck?

And...what's 50k here, is not the same as 50K there. I had a hard time translating it myself into real values when I was just over there.

Please understand, I am not saying it is a worker's paradise over there. But we don't lose our house when we get sick over there.

And the dollar:worthless these days.Man, even the Canadians have a better rate.

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Germany is struggling, just like all nations are post 2007, but more than holding their own.

Their unemployment rate is 5.2% - 2% lower than ours.

A cost of living comparison between the US and Germany - theirs is higher, but the basic necessities (shelter, food, etc) are lower.;=Germany

Sorry, but I'm not seeing where socialism is hurting Germany in the least. (And they're not a true socialist country anyhow - ask the Albrechts, the Ottos and the Quandts, among other German billionaires.)

Their problem is that they're in the EU and cannot close their borders. They were being flooded with immigrants from Eastern Europe and the Middle East when I lived there 15 years ago - people wanted the job training and the health care. If they could close their borders, they'd be sitting very pretty.

As much as some in the country would like to, Germany cannot withdraw from the EU. The European economy would collapse without their leadership and support of Greece, Spain, and others. If the EU collapses, then the other major markets, to include ours, follow.

roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That was just my first post. You beat me to the punch before I could get the second one in.

Is that tax rate a flat one, with no deductions? Applying today's conversion rate, I fall in the 14% category. I wouldn't pay a whole lot more under a flat 14%/no deductions, but would definitely get more in return.

roger — October 31, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nicely put and told, Roger. Could not agree more with you. This whole EU thing..I was at first very excited, but no more. The flood of eastern immigrants is unbelievable. You have to be there to really see it and understand it. Not sustainable at all. Makes our immigration issue a minor one in comparison. Come in, and get the services and the money (not that Germany is alone with this problem, trust me. Ask Sweden, Britain, France). Makes me wish for closed borders again. But they will open wider and wider every year.
I would like to see a major change in the EU, if not getting rid of it. That's not going to happen, of course, because of the consequences.

As for taxes, there are deductions. But nothing, nothing like here.
No, the quasi-socialism hasn't hurt. People consider it a basic right.

And one of the biggest topics over there? Wait for it: tolls. As Germany sits so smack in the middle, commerce rolls right through it via the autobahn. They are discussing tolling it all -why do we keep up the roads for other countries to use? I had to chuckle when I spent a few weeks listening to it. France tolls, I think it's coming to Germany shortly.

But: the wine is GOOD. And so much cheaper for a good bottle, so much. Makes you weep. Beer bottles bigger, better price. Dang.

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 6:23 p.m.

(my perspective)

Luvit, I'm not sure if you remember my posts as to what had happened to Greece when they opened their borders..a country already having financial issues joining into the EU...and how many others were having financial issues at the time??? What they've done sounded good from a distance till you experience what it's like in the countries with open borders. Yeah, it might be convenient for European Citizens who are part of the EU as far as traveling from country to country...but the open borders have opened up the countries to overcrowding and unsustainable governments. They've gotten in way above their heads on this one. Like you say, sometimes I wish they'd close their borders. I say...let the once-independent nations regain their identity, if they can.

Can you imagine what it would be like if we opened our borders here in the US??? Would it be a good thing??? My answer is simple...just look what it's done for Europe. Sometimes, that One World, One Government idea (like the EU test) may sound good, but it has it's detrimental effects on the people.

Regarding tolls...just drive the main highways in Greece. Every mile or so, there's a toll station.

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails...regarding your Halloween avatar....

Courtesy of Frankensteen (accentuated from the movie, Young Frankenstein) of course!!!

Trick or Treat!!!

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.
Yep, I do remember. I agree with you on this stuff. Normal, regular Greeks got hammered, no question about that.

As a trekkie, I love the idea of one earth. As a realist, it ain't working so well. But sure wish we finally learn to take the good and leave the crap behind.

luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just like always.... no trick or treaters. Too far off the beaten path I guess.

Manthou, how many have you got?

hawkeye — October 31, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 31, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.

And trick or treat to you also. I saw Young Frankenstein at the Drive-In shortly after it came out. Brilliant movie.

"I say...let the once-independent nations regain their identity, if they can."

They never lost it. Germany, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France- all unique and retain their cultural values and identities well.

I'm afraid America is losing our identity. Not from those from without, but from those within.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Whatever happened to Drive-Ins anyway? I have some great memories from those. I suppose it rains so much here that they wouldn't be reasonable.

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holy-----Banishment? Am I sight farting or have HC's posts disappeared? Not again!

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was listening to Rachel talk about this. Huge story developing with gay rights and the military. These red states are a sty in the eye on the lens of american freedom.

///Defense Secretary Hagel calls out 9 states for refusing to issue military IDs to same-sex spouses///


And speaking of our military. Please remember this in 2014.

///When Veterans Get Food Stamps Cut, It's Time to Prioritize Our Budget///

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey Nail, Am I still here? Seems that HC is gone.

hawkeye — October 31, 2013 at 10:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 8:58 p.m

As far as I know there is a drive-in, in Newburg still open. There was one in Portland, but it's been years since I was by there so don't know if it's still there. I'll ask my husband when he gets home tomorrow and see if he knows.

ELISI — October 31, 2013 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 31, 2013 at 10:51 p.m.

"Hey Nail, Am I still here? Seems that HC is gone."

I think so hawk. Near as I can tell. Although it looks like the cat has been tossed the way of the litter box again.

ELISI — October 31, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.

Thanks ELISI. When I think of American culture, drive in movies are one of the many things unique to us. At least I think so. I'd better go look it up. I've never noticed any abroad.

I would think the rain here would be a problem for business sustainability. Maybe not. They were cheap and you could take anything you wanted with you.

And I'm sure drive ins provided an environment in which many relationships were taken to the next level. :)

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

APIL is pointing out Madore is endorsing a tax cheat for office. :)) Ya gotta love it. David is certainly the gift that keeps on giving, and the C makes sure it gets unwrapped!

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lovit ..Trekies are Flocking to Germany... I like the Ideas behind the science but it doesn't buy you any better beer. We here in the Portland Vancouver area have just as good Beer without having to go to Germany. It can be a nice Vacation but most of us would come home after a couple weeks in a heartbeat..I visited one of my sons last November in Germany.. He loved his vacation from Afganistan but both of us agreed this area we live is the best anywhere in the world. As I traveled with my gather thru 25 years in the service everyone we came upon told and asked my father how nice is where you live. I listened to him describe where we lived.. Everyone we talked to wished they could live where we did. they see it totally different than some of us. Most are tired of giving so much of there money away to the goverment in Europe in return for diminishing returns... WE will see Europe changing as it will need to in order to continue to provide for its people..We have been spoiled for many years here now the tide is turning.. Socialism is upon us and many of us are not very happy about it.. I guess your ok if you can pay half as much for your healthcare as your brother does.. That makes for great family relationships...But again many of us think we deserve it.. Weber paid taxes so Thats what we deserve..

vanwadreamer — October 31, 2013 at 11:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


i freaked out a checker & shopper in line at fred meyer when i demonstrated what i'd do with the candy bowl....if i lived in a place that had kids ringing door bells. looked at me like i was a ... freak.

he he.

DeeLittle — November 1, 2013 at 12:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nine kids total at my door (ten, if you count the one parent in costume). I think a lot go to the organized "safe candy" events. One of the last group asked if he could take two - gave him my best stern look and said "Two? No. Take more. A lot more." Score!!! Hopefully they spread the word - I don't need all this chocolate sitting around the house for the next month.

roger — November 1, 2013 at 5:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe it's my own transient life (military brat and then careerist), but I can't get into this idea that "There's no place like home." My family visit from back East, and they're awed by the majesty of the mountains here. I've hiked the Appalachian Trail from PA down to NC - some of the most beautiful scenery anywhere. Surfing Wrightsville Beach in NC during hurricane season. Exploring the Superstition Mountains northeast of Phoenix (damned Lost Dutchman Mine has to be somewhere!). You haven't really skied until you've hit the slopes in Garmische and Chamonix. The scenery in the Bavarian Alps is beautiful. Like to party? Join the Dutch at a World Cup match - let loose with a Hup Holland or two and they treat you like a long lost friend. It's international insanity at Le Grande Tour. Ride the subway in Seoul and shop at the outdoor market at South Gate - true excitement. Rio at Carnival was a blast, though they had more beggars and pickpockets than even Italy did.

Just about everywhere has something to offer. Quit comparing and enjoy.

And I still plan on going back to Trier some day and kicking that damned monkey's butt. I've got a long memory, and have never been punked out like I was by that fleabitten miserable excuse of a subhuman life form. (This time I'll stay away from the new wine festival tents until after I take care of business.)

roger — November 1, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — November 1, 2013 at 12:33 a.m.

PRICELESS, you little she-devil. I would have loved to have seen the look on the checker's face. You totally caught them off guard!!! Nice Trick...Your treat??? The reaction...


goldenoldie — November 1, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What, no cat again??? Who complained?

Van, Roger, I like it here also. But I agree with Roger, it's nice in other places also. Just need to give it a chance.
Happy Friday. One more day of work.

luvithere — November 1, 2013 at 6:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 31, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.

Nails, you know he'll be back about 6 months before the next election. Just like last time and an infinite number of other times, he'd come up with something extremely offensive or risky for the publishers of this website. He'll do it again and again and again. It's his nature.

No biggie. Just a different day, different avatar....8))

goldenoldie — November 1, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 1, 2013 at 6:15 a.m.

First of all, good mornin' to ya!!! To begin...

I definitely did NOT complain. I found the cat to be a challenge. Methinks he self imploded his own avatar by his little third-eye BS. Too risky for the folks at the C.


luvithere — October 31, 2013 at 7:36 p.m.

You said "Normal, regular Greeks got hammered..."

I ask...What is an abnormal irregular Greek??? Yes, I'm just kidding. I knew what you meant.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailing it — October 31, 2013 at 11:36 p.m. Madore not only endorsed a guy who doesn't believe in paying his taxes, but according to the Columbian, is also a member of the Sovereign Citizens group. Darby says he's not violent, but the Sovereign Citizens have been linked to a number of shootings and violent confrontations with law enforcement and the FBI lists them as a domestic terrorist group.

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oooh...I see one of the world's most famous activists are in town this week! Guess I might have to go down to the waterfront and see the Rainbow Warrior. To have such a visual presence in opposition to the coal trains...that's history in the makin' for Clark County.

goldenoldie — November 1, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Did somebody pull the trigger on ol' HC? I kinda miss the rants. LOL I think he swore one too many times!! If he'd just not swore so much he would have stayed on. I particularly like the names he came up with. Campbell won't put up with too much and I think that HC may have crossed that line. I've been booted a couple of times for an extended periods of time and have got the e-mails concerning my stance on rapers in general and baby rapers in particular. But the things I described were pretty mild compared with some of his comments. He had a good run though but I thought he got away with it way longer that some of us thought he would have. Let me make this clear. I did NOT turn him in. I just think he shot himself in the old proverbial foot. But what do I know? He may just taking a sabbatical.

We got a few drive in trick or treaters but that was it. I used to leave a bowl out for them but I caught an adult tipping the bowl up and filching all the candy. So much for the honor system. By adult I mean someone older than forty. His excuse? was that he doesn't take his kids out for very long and he wanted to make the best of it. I made him put it all back and I gave his kids some myself. He was in no position to argue with me. I hope his children learned something that night but I don't think so. He was teaching them that is was okay to steal. ( future politicians in the making?) To top it off this guy was a neighbor from just a few doors down.

JohnCasey — November 1, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Having Greenpeace show up in da 'Couve, as opposed to activist Portlandia, tells me that they think this coal train fight is going to be a big one.

I am going down tomorrow to check out the new ship, too.

On a side note, at the end of Board Time Wednesday, Steve Stuart alerted his two comrades that he had been invited by Greenpeace to come take a special tour of the Rainbow Warrior. "So, if you read about it in the newspaper....."

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy November, everybody!!!

hawkeye — November 1, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey: Holyc/alleycat served an important purpose here and, I swear, we will miss it.

He loved to pick fights and for those who love to engage in fights (rather than respectful and reasoned discussion), he was the perfect sparring partner. He accepted that role, did not flinch at the insults hurled at him (he hurled them back) and allowed the rest of us to enjoy each other's opinions and ideas with a good deal of civility. There was always this side fight going on between Holyc and someone else to fill the fight need, and it really only amounted to so much thunder in the distance, nothing more.

Holyc was part of the fabric of this Forum. I will repeat my mantra: Even offensive speech is protected.

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of free speech, it appears that The Columbian Journalism Review (revered publication by those in the field) and retired professor Bruce Porter are being sued for libel by a long-ago subject and source. She makes some compelling arguments for her case, but we shall see what the courts do with it.

The professor apologized, but it was not enough.

Let's keep our local media ethical and honest. I think they are, for the most part. I look forward to watching this legal fight. It won't be cheap and it won't be quick:

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 7:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Freudian slip there: It is the Columbia Journalism Review, not the Columbian. :)

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Gold, there are regular, and there are irregular Greeks. LOL. As always, it is the regular, typical, everyday people that get hurt when the fat cats get to work.

I shall miss the cat. When you stripped the rants of the hyperbole, he always had a good point to make. Let's hope he comes back soon.

Van: by the way, I agree we have good beer here. We always do a microbrew tasting session, so many good ones. But the bottles in Germany are BIGGER!

luvithere — November 1, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Very interesting, since the Pres. did say if we liked our insurance plans, we could keep them. It's called "Affordable Care Act" What I am seeing and hearing is plan prices are up compared to what people already have, deductibles and co-pays up.

93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans

ELISI — November 1, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I drifted over to the letter section this morning and came across this. It seems as though nothing has changed. One of the many things I take exception with is why should users of medpot be forced to re-up every year for a chronic ailment?

Why should any of these onerous burdens be an issue for that matter?

I have the same argument for pot that I do booze with age limits. (although to lump the two together is a fallacy within itself-I digress) Young men & women can sign up to defend our country and all that goes with it, but are not allowed to determine what they put their lips

Lets end the bureaucratic nonsense and have real conversations about that God awful substance which has proved to benefit so many in so many ways.

State laws still have Reefer Madness syndrome. Legislators should advocate for what many of them do behind closed doors. Take a hit or two and chill out.

-Letter: Medical pot laws targeted-

"Untenable" is what U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan called the for-profit medical marijuana dispensaries currently operating within Washington state. The statement was prompted by the recent Department of Justice "memo" on recreational cannabis policy.

So the state Legislature mandated the Liquor Control Board make recommendations regarding the interaction of medical cannabis regulations and Initiative 502. Those recommendations can be found at If you will take the time to read them, it will become obvious to you the board's recommendation is to gut the current medicinal cannabis laws: tossing the baby out with the bath water.

Now that is untenable. Please, speak up.

Jim Kennedy


nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi @ 8:04 am: I am not excusing the President's falsehood. Politicians lie to get elected all the time. Look at Leavitt's No Tolls flip after he won the gavel. It does not make me happy and it is why I take most political promises with a big block of salt lick.

My understanding is that most of these insurance plans do not meet the ACA requirements for one reason or another. People are able to keep their plans if the are "good" plans. A lot of these cancelled plans are the individual catastrophic kind that young people often get (my son was on one for a few years: awful coverage). The ACA is trying to jettison such poor coverage, supposedly.

I just wish we had a single-payer system like Medicare for all. I was exposed to that in Canada and had absolutely no complaints about the quality of care or access to it.

This new program will have many kinks as it works them out. It is better for us all if most people have insurance coverage.

No program should be sold on misrepresentation and that is what is killing the ACA in public relations.

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 8:11 a.m.
"State laws still have Reefer Madness syndrome"

It amazes me that Washington still has a felony possession threshold of 40 grams, if we compare this with "red" States it shows how out of touch our legislators are.
Texas 4 ounces
Oklahoma no amount felony for first offence(possession)
Kansas no amount felony for first offence(possession)
Louisiana 60 pounds
Arkansas 4 ounces
South Carolina no felony possession
Kentucky 8 ounces
In Alaska up to 4 ounces is legal within the confines of one's home, over that is a felony.

frobert — November 1, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, I guess it all in where you live in Canada as to the "quality care" one receives.
I have a friend in Canada, she had a heart attack a couple yrs ago, the care she was receiving was so bad her son (he lives in Michigan) moved her to a hospital here in the states.
She is back in Canada and swears the care where she lives is the worse.

We also had neighbors from Canada a few yrs ago who moved here for health care reasons. Their main complaint was they couldn't get the care they needed in Canada and when they needed it. They told us they were put on a waiting list.

ELISI — November 1, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: Yeah, using the term "Canada" encompasses a huge, diverse country. Each province handles their health care in their own way.

We lived in Saskatechwan, touted as Canada's most socialistic province. It was not uncommon to see nearly-million dollar homes next to tiny, affordable bungalows. There were no real obvious pockets of wealth hidden behind gated communities. The government owns the utility companies. It gives citizens a provincial pension and child credit. Dental clinics in the schools. Residents chose which school system their tax dollars supported: parochial or public. Taxes were high, but so were the salaries (you have to make it worth an employee's while to endure -40 winters for weeks on end).

I used to watch so many elderly neighbors struggle through the snow and ice each winter (7 months of it, mind you) and asked them: Why don't you move to BC? Their answer was always: the healthcare we get in Saskatechwan is the best in the country.

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is a link to Madore's reworked "integrity" resolution for next week's hearing:

At this moment I have no comment; however, I am shaking my head as I type.

pfaffmachine — November 1, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert: The US loves to incarcerate and condemn. I see that WA is looking for more prison space. We just can't get enough to criminalizing as many citizens as we can.

I know three Eagle scouts who got in a water balloon fight with some friends and an irate parent was able to convince the prosecutor to initially charge these kids with a felony assault over their son's chest bruise. Felony. Of course, it was pled down and the juvenile probation department had to work hard to reason with this out-for-blood parent. Lots of money and resources lost to keep the community "safe" from these boys, all of whom grew up to be responsible adults.

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A reasonable viewpoint on the ACA.

-Why Letting Everyone Keep Their Health-Care Plan Is a Terrible Idea-

The complainers are right. But they won’t quite face up to the full implications of their complaint. If you believe the healthy are entitled to keep the financial benefits of their good health, then you must also believe the sick must be denied medical care. Should that principle be the foundation of our health-care system?

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Meet the drug warriors working to roll back hard-won advances in marijuana policy-

But before marijuana legalization spreads from Washington and Colorado to other states, it will have to get past a group of hardened drug warriors, many of whom have developed a personal interest in maintaining prohibition. While most of these ideologues lack the authority to actually change laws, their larger purpose is to maintain the marijuana propaganda machine and push back against pro-legalization rhetoric. Here are the top five people threatening to halt the state-by-state legalization domino effect that many pot activists hope is coming soon:

Read more:

Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 9:16 am: You can see the PA's office stamp all over this new resolution of Madore's. It is no longer his, really. They took out all the inflammatory, accusatory language. Madorespeak.

It will pass 2-1 at the BOCC hearing, but Madore and Mielke aren't going to get much action on some of the demands. For instance, it will never be published on the CRC website. This is a political tool that makes some voters feel better and some politicians feel elevated.

So much thunder in the distance (my new favorite phrase).

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

16% ballot returns as of today. It is inching up. Will we get to 25%?

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Clearing up the Facts
By Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary of Health and Human Services
Posted October 30, 2013

There has been a lot of confusion about some recent notices to consumers from insurance companies that sell coverage in the individual insurance market, and I’d like to clear up the facts.

langenthal — November 1, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


i don't like "mail in ballots", so i vote ON THE DAY OF THE ELECTION, and drive my ballot to the collection center at the courthouse.

DeeLittle — November 1, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So from what you read from kathllen, did that clear everything up for you? And if so how did this clear it up for you. Are you able to keep your current plan? Did the plan cost change for you up or down...Have you shopped online in the exchange and if so can you get a better plan at a more affordable cost? Do you qualify to go into the exchanges?..

vanwadreamer — November 1, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Meet the drug warriors working to roll back hard-won advances in marijuana policy-

And David Arnett, nail. How could RollingStone forget Dave?

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I agree with you on the Canadian health care. My daughter fell gravely ill when she lived just outside of Vancouver BC. They tried everything they could to save her. She was treated with excellent care as was the whole family.We lost her through no fault of their system. I was very impressed with the way everything was handled.

timerick — November 1, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 11:11 a.m.

I find it interesting that Patrick Kennedy is absent from their list.

frobert — November 1, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops, I missed your post quoting that Kennedy guy's (Jim's a masculine name, right?) LttE.

An annual medical appointment is SOP for "regular" practitioners, nail. Even if I don't use the V.A. services for a year, around December I get a note to make my annual appointment. If I didn't, my scripts and services would laps.

I think that Kennedy guy's point is, the powers That Be (LCB, Health and Revenue) have gone waaaay beyond what would satisfy the Jenny Durkan. Though the majority of the suggestions are outlandish, some recommendations are more heinous than others.

Home grows gone? That aint gonna fly, man.

What of the one that wouldn't allow a medical professional to be in the 'business' of cannabis recommendations? Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the business model, myself. It smells of "shenanigans." But consider this; without those as a resource a vet relying on the V.A. for health care wouldn't be able to obtain a recc.

Like most stuff, it gets complicated. But, those recommendations from the Board are outright uh, uh, mean. Downright mean. And remember, it's all about the mighty dollar.

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I was thinking Pat Kennedy was teamed up with one of them. Yeah, I was sort of expecting his name to pop up, too. Maybe RS doesn't think he has enough credbility (for some value of) to even make honorable mention? ☺

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. - at 11:11 a.m.

I can picture Arnette praying that someday he receives enough social stature to be criticized by Rolling Stone, while in the same breath asking the Lord to deliver Americans from the evils and pitfalls stemming from "the devil's lettuce".

This strain of conservatism David seems to represent, is much the cause for the propaganda laden talking points those opposing marijuana legalization put forth. A small part of me was hoping when Christian big kahuna Pat Robertson advocated somewhat for pot bennies, conservatives might change a bit in their thinking. But I think at this point ol' Pat has lost a few creds with the holy roller crowd.

Though he's still going strong in third world countries. :)

Kennedy's position on marijuana is a bit of an anomaly considering his politics. Just a thought, maybe Kennedy is displacing a bit of blame on pot as a gateway drug to alleviate anxiety about his addictions to chemicals, DUI's, and to diffuse rape charges brought against him. A variation of "the devil made me do it". Just a thought.

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 6:21 a.m.

I think the C should make more of this. We have a sitting Clark County Commissioner who advocates for those not only breaking the law and belonging to violent/terrorist organizations, but encourages others to place them in power while advocating for violence on his Face Book if policy doesn't go his way.

Not all take a look at APIL. This sitting commish and the positions he takes regarding these and other matters need to be front and center. Local news stations should pick this up and put on the pressure. This guy is a radical who clothes himself in soft speak, smiles, prayer, and an undying faithfulness from his followers.

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailing @ 1:23 wrote:

"This guy is a radical who clothes himself in soft speak, smiles, prayer, and an undying faithfulness from his followers."

Warren Jeffs? Jim Jones? Sun Myung Moon? L Ron Hubbard?

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Warren Jeffs

luvithere — November 1, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Given the totality of his views and actions, and a newbie to political power at that, this guy deserves more attention from the media. Who knows what the next three years will bring with this guy? He's lost the right to sit on the County Commission in my opinion, and even if he's driven to a public apology of some sort, it's not enough.

I'm not a fan of recall as I believe elections have consequences and we must play the hand we are dealt. But this wasn't in the cards, for anyone. He's proven himself to be an ideologue with radical violent views and needs to be ousted. At this point I would whole heartedly endorse a recall.

Having said that, I got a bucktwoeightynine for some java and a lemon bar.

And they still won't sell them to me...

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"And they still won't sell them to me..."

'Cuz you don't have enough money. It goes for a buck-two-ninety-eight.

Drift — November 1, 2013 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: How does an expert researcher and as smart as Madore believes himself to be, wind up endorsing a guy affiliated with a group subject to an FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin. Maybe Darby is just a harmless old whack, but still.... Gotta be a good story there. Maybe Madore just likes whacks?

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That means I gotta save a quarter-sixty-three! Oh man...the story of my life.

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.

The description of the sovereign citizens movement sounds like a weird tea party declaration. And maybe Darby isn't all that harmless. Violent young people grow to be violent old people. In light of this, given his anti government rhetoric, his encouragement of violent actions via Face Book, his association not only with Darby, but others who have made threats on Face Book and public commentary, Madore needs to be asked if he himself is a member of this movement.

Given what Madore has posted and stated publicly, it seriously makes one wonder what is said and done behind closed doors. These concerns should be addressed in the media and in public forums. Madore needs to answer to the people he has taken an oath to preserve.

The Columbian should be all over this.

There's more that one way to skin a cat, especially when the cat is skinning themselves. (not the best expression as my 15.5 pound fur ball is stretched out on my lap, but it's the only one that comes to mind:)

I'm reminded again of this posting-

Berrigan's rant sounds just like the FBI description of sovereign speak-and of course our illustrious commissioner's reply-in part-

"If we get to the point where we can no longer afford to fight tyranny with our wealth, we will eventually be left with only one option, violence."

~David Madore~ October 13, 2011

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, manthou, anyone????

Can you tell me where the drop off ballot box is in downtown?

Husband will be back home tonight and we always vote together, a tad late getting the ballets done this year, so need to do the drop off box.

ELISI — November 1, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: According to the CC Web Page, the only available drop off box prior to election day is at 14th and Esther in downtown.

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Clark County Elections, located at 1408 Franklin Street in Vancouver, and the Permanent 24-hour Drop Box (14th and Esther Street in Vancouver) are the ONLY LOCATIONS available BEFORE Election Day.

All other locations are available ONLY on ELECTION DAY.

Ballots must be received by 8 p.m. on Election Day, November 5, 2013. Ballots received after 8 p.m. on Election Day will not be valid.

Clark County Elections
1408 Franklin Street, Vancouver 98660
Hours: 8 a.m. - 5 p.m., Monday - Friday
Election Day Hours: 7 a.m. - 8 p.m.

langenthal — November 1, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Nails . If this election doesn't go Madore's way, we might finally see the implosion I have been predicting.
I really do hope his selected people lose. Can't take anymore of them. And I don't even live in Vancouver. But he has been trying mightily to stack east county in his favor also.
Somewhere, there is something seriously wrong behind the grin.

luvithere — November 1, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — November 1, 2013 at 4:59 p.m


langenthal — November 1, 2013 at 5:05 p.m

Thanks guys!

ELISI — November 1, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My understanding is that the sovereign citizen movement proclaims people are not subject to the authority of any level of government. So why is this guy even running for a County office?

roger — November 1, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 4:03 p.m
"The description of the sovereign citizens movement sounds like a weird tea party declaration."
Other than the fact that they are in no way remotely similar. How can anybody even compare the two? That would be the same as saying that the neoNazi party is like an offshoot of the democratic party.

frobert — November 1, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: So glad to know you are getting your ballot in. I wouldn't trust mailing it, either. You won't miss that big box. :)))

nailingit: Maybe the Columbian is working on a story, not just a blog post, on the unbelievably rash Madore endorsement of Darby. We really do need his feet held to the flames about this. Perhaps they are cumulating their list and will tackle many issues about him at once?

luvithere: I do think we may see some sort of escalation ending in a big screw up from Madore when his favorite candidates lose.

manthou — November 1, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is anyone else following the Right 2 Dream controversy in downtown Portland? I'm amazed that something like this is happening - only in the world of Portlandia, I guess. The homeless have a "right" to live somewhere, they have a nice little tent city supported by donations, they have their own lawyer, and (most importantly) their own City Councilor - Amanda Fritz. The Mayor decided they had to move from the lot they're currently camping on, so Fritz has arranged for them to use a city parking lot under a Broadway Bridge ramp. Problem is, the developers and residents of the Pearl District are a bit miffed with this - all that riff raff disrupts the feng shui of their neighborhood. Their complaints, while understandable in the minds of most Portlanders (or at least those commenting in the Oregonian), fall on deaf ears - The intelligentsia who run Portland believe the fine folks of the Pearl have been getting away with being a nice upscale neighborhood for far too long. They need to have the "proper" mix of people so they're more sensitive to the needs of the less fortunate.

There are a few abandoned buildings across the Willamette (one mentioned on MLK) that are being suggested so they can live indoors. All considered unacceptable. Perfectly understandable - the R2D2 crowd are all self employed, and plying their trade along MLK is an obvious nonstarter. Because TriMet eliminated the fareless zone, they'd have to walk to and from their jobs in the downtown business zone.

I wonder how this would play out in downtown Vancouver?

roger — November 1, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- from the article about Darby:

"He teaches others about how to become sovereign citizens. He meets with county officials in their offices to explain his viewpoints."

He'd sure have a tough time pleading ignorant.

I'd like to see Madore respond to this subject thinking on his feet. Almost enough to drag me out and ask him during public comment time. These folks that loathe government & public service only enter it to disrupt and profit from it.

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — November 1, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.,

The problem is, every one of Madore's whereas' is correct. Steve Stuart has referenced many of these in prior meetings.

The problem is, these are "only" C-Tran Board resolutions - passed by majority vote, and just as easily revoked the same way. And with Stuart and Onslow siding with them, the Vancouver city bloc would have carried the day if they'd taken a little extra time to do so.

The question is why didn't they? It's this seeming hubris, that they don't need our input as they know what's best for us, that has led to so much opposition to the project. And while it isn't dead yet, Gov Kitz keeping it on life support pending some 11th hour maneuver by Gov Inslee to get WA back in the game doesn't appear to be panning out. We could possibly be building that bridge, light rail and all, if they'd just asked us like they're supposed to.

roger — November 1, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting that David Madore recommends freeholder candidates who he believes want "small and limited County government" - a "smaller and less intrusive government in which citizens have power—not just the politicians and bureaucrats."

Doesn't this guy realize that a strong County government is the only way to keep a counterbalance to Vancouver in place? He's got this idea that pushing the power to all the "little places" is the way to go.

roger — November 1, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — November 1, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

People am I the only one to notice the name of the lady suing Kaiser. It is believed she is Don Bentons wife. How far is this guy going to go?

timerick — November 1, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — November 1, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.

Yeah, probably Benton's wife. The article didn't confirm. Case will probably have merit tho not sure about financial settlement without implicit damages. Not a lawyer, don't know. But can't help but think about Henrietta Lacks... her cells taken without her knowledge which led to some new research on her cells.

Body fluids should be just as private as phone calls or internet history. If they want it for something, just say so. If I deny it, then get a court order, or at least explain how this is beneficial to me. Okay, not exactly the same but...

jacjak — November 1, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I got my labs done at Kaiser last week, and after the blood draw the vampire guy told me to piss in a cup. I asked why, and he stated it was because I was taking a scheduled 3 drug. I told him I'd take a pass.

If I wouldn't have inquired as to the reason I never would have known. It doesn't seem right. As JJ stated, it's my urine and felt a bit intruded upon. Even though they had several vials of blood to check for whatever, none of it was targeted for opiate analysis.

Enough to piss someone off-or not.

nailingit — November 1, 2013 at 9:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 7:10 PM: Remember that scientific poll The Columbian paid for? Of the number of persons polled, 46%, favored the CRC. 45% of those polled were against it, with 9% undecided. Too close for either side to say, "Whew."

I think if the poll were taken today, it would tip more opinion to the NO side. Some Oregon legislators, for example, who voted for the project when WA was a partner, say they would vote NO to give Oregon the green light to go it alone.

Polls are different than motivated voters bothering to research the issues and actually mark and mail their ballots because answering questions posed by a pollster is largely passive. You get a call in the comfort of your home and you either agree or disagree to answer the questions posed. Polls probably capture people who do not bother to vote, don't you think?

Regardless, this issue is likely moot, depending on the Oregon legislature. The longer it drags out, the less support it likely has.

About Madore's newest resolution: yes, it is factual now. The attorneys have had at it for some time and re-wrote it for him, taking out the allegations, emotion, and hearsay. It is actually understandable, too. :)

I like your thought about the importance of a strong county government here and Madore should understand the importance of having a variety of checks and balances. A weak government gets run over by stronger ones.

manthou — November 2, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If letters to the editor, endorsements, blogs, Facebook postings, or campaign contributions mean anything, County residents outside Vancouver, are doing their damnedest to ensure their interests are well represented on the Vancouver City Council.

JohnK — November 2, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Last week some of us lamented the passing of Lou Reed. Thought to share this.>>>

To our neighbors:

What a beautiful fall! Everything shimmering and golden and all that incredible soft light. Water surrounding us.

Lou and I have spent a lot of time here in the past few years, and even though we're city people this is our spiritual home.

Last week I promised Lou to get him out of the hospital and come home to Springs. And we made it!

Lou was a tai chi master and spent his last days here being happy and dazzled by the beauty and power and softness of nature. He died on Sunday morning looking at the trees and doing the famous 21 form of tai chi with just his musician hands moving through the air.

Lou was a prince and a fighter and I know his songs of the pain and beauty in the world will fill many people with the incredible joy he felt for life. Long live the beauty that comes down and through and onto all of us.

-- Laurie Anderson

his loving wife and eternal friend

nailingit — November 2, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I am not a music person. I like it but don't really pay much attention to the artist's. But I am going to try and find Mr. Reeds works. That was a beautiful letter his wife wrote. If we all had one person that cares for us like that we would be very lucky. Thanks for posting it.

timerick — November 2, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- My personal favorite Rock N' Roll Animal. Reed pushed the envelope for sure. The Intro/Sweet Jane opening is stellar.

nailingit — November 2, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As Nails said, Rock and Roll Animal is Lou Reed performing at his best.

Lou Reed put out an album called New York that's probably the best of his later work.

I still prefer his earlier work with Velvet Underground, when he and John Cale were equal partners. (Ego and drugs led to dissolution of that partnership.) Their 1967 album had this song - the first one by them that got my attention. Waiting For The Man

roger — November 2, 2013 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I love Laurie Anderson's work and never knew she was married to Lou Reed until I read his obit. Their union makes sense to me, however. They are very much alike in their vision and level of talent. Not ordinary or formulaic at all.

I have seen Laurie Anderson perform live in NYC with a knowledgeable musician friend who had to drag me to her show. What a moron I was to pre-judge. I am not usually a lover of edgy, experimental stuff but she got my attention and held it all these years. I like to know what she is up to.

I am currently reading an old New Yorker series she recommended called, "Within the Context of No Context" by George W.S. Trow. John Irving's review of this extended essay says, "This elegant little book is essential reading for anyone interested in the demise, the terminal silliness, of our culture."

Anyway, I was watching old YouTube interviews of her, sometimes with Lou Reed, this week because both of them have been on my mind. She discussed her appreciation of this book and its influence on her. I ordered mine from Amazon, but it is available in a free pdf download, based on the original New Yorker publication. You just have to google the title and add pdf to the end.

I simply hate it when we lose such visionary talent and I trust Laurie Anderson will soldier on and give us more of Lou, if she can. :)

manthou — November 2, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, I wore out Side 2 of that album you linked to.

roger — November 2, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Laurie Anderson and Lou Reed short audio song on YouTube:

manthou — November 2, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou's column today leaves a lot to be desired. All that business about clown masks, Boss Hogg and dancing - sorry.

I'm curious about the apparent banishment of Crapper. I'm thinking we've been pretty much unsupervised here since Marshal Matt left town. Editor Lou drops in once every few months and tries to start a conversation. John Hill seems to consider us an after thought, if the frequent start of a new forum each Monday is any indication. As for Crapper/Alleycat/???, his habit of selecting a person or two to tangle with is/was old hat - ignore him (unless he says something meaningful) and he moves on to a different person. But he did seem to get a bit freer with the language the past few weeks - possibly someone decided to complain about that? If so, I guess I'll have to watch my own potty mouth.

roger — November 2, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 2, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.,

I most definitely agree with you on the polling. I made a similar argument as you do a few weeks back when people were squabbling about our "advisory" votes and suggesting a scientific poll would be a better use of money. My take is that if people take the time to vote, they will (hopefully) have some knowledge of what they're voting for.

Even more telling that the for/against the CRC or light rail results (to me) was the one on diversion to I205. Seems a whole lot of people who support the CRC don't like the idea of having to pay to use the bridge. I suspect there's a lot of behind the scenes maneuvering in Oly town to try to allow tolling the I205, and perhaps even some pressure from Sen Murray to get Trans Secy Foxx to direct it without agreement from WA.

roger — November 2, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just got my Don Benton legislative update from the mailbox. Let's see --

He notes that when including those who are no longer seeking work, WA has the 5th highest unemployment rate in the nation. Also, although the statewide rate dropped below 7%, Clark County remains at 8.6% (in June). (I'm sure this info will be analyzed in depth. And I'm pretty certain the recent discussion on interest rates and the $85 bil/mo T-Bill buyback indicated the national average was about 7.3%, so I'm not sure of his math.) ANYHOW, he's got one job creation plan - to privatize workman's comp. Hmmm... 5 thumbs down.

He continues to take credit for stopping the CRC in the Senate, saying that his appointment as vice Chair of the Senate Trans Committee allowed him to share his knowledge and educate his fellow Senators of the project's shortcomings. (I'm sure Ann Rivers is happy to know she's chopped liver.) He believes the recent C-Tran vote to join TriMet in bringing light rail was a swindle that will end up in court. His priority will be to continue working to the only real solution to the traffic problem - a third bridge. Well, let's see... 2 down for dissing Ann (it ought to be more, but we have to account for the ego issues here), 4 up for his take on the C-Tran Board vote, and 1 down for his third bridge statement (this ought to be a thumbs up, but he's never made this claim before, so I suspect is he means Mielke/Madore's 192nd Ave bridge.) Final - 1 up.

The budget and education. First he slams the State Court for overturning the 2/3 tax increase vote requirement of 1053, which he says he sponsored. (That was him and not Eyman? News to me.) He then tells how the Senate fought back and effort by the House and the Gov to raise taxes, and passed a $33.6 bil spending plan that increases K-12 funding by 12%, and also channeled more money to higher education so tuition didn't rise for the first time in 27 years. This all sounds pretty good. I don't follow this area all that closely, but as far as I'm concerned, he gets 5 thumbs up. (And I suspect manthou, who does follow this area very closely, will soon be telling me the other side of this story.)


roger — November 2, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

He frequently reminds us that he's Deputy Senate Leader.

Some other stuff about state audits, and a skills center and a children's center for Clark County. Bringing the pork home for the County with the last two - way to go, Don!

- His bill to require transparent elections by requiring funding to promote or attack a referendum, initiative or constitutional amendment was passed. Good stuff.
- Citing how the killer of Vancouver's Chelsea Harrison got out of prison due to a loophole in the 3 strikes law, he's calling for the death penalty for child killers. It passed the Senate and received a hearing in the House. I gather he plans on introducing it again.
- He wants all property annexations to be approved by the voters. This didn't make it out of committee in the Senate last session, and he plans on putting it up again.

I find I agree more than I disagree. Danger, Will Robinson.

roger — November 2, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Stealin' - Uriah Heep

roger — November 2, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Foot Stompin' Music - Grand Funk

roger — November 2, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ramble Tamble - Creedence. Stuff like this shows them as a great concert band.

roger — November 2, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Highway Star - Deep Purple

roger — November 2, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Dear Mr Fantasy - Traffic

roger — November 2, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One of These Days - Ten Years After

roger — November 2, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


noticed that the vancouver farmer's market islookingforsomeone to fill an open seat on their board.

you got enough free time?

DeeLittle — November 2, 2013 at 10:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


didn't spend enough time proof reading...."is (space) looking (space) for (space) someone...."

DeeLittle — November 2, 2013 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sad he's gone. great talent. "walk on the wild side", etc

DeeLittle — November 2, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

from *MY* pov:

obamcare: rapes the population. was a (computer) worm from the beginning. if you get far enough to actully CHOOSE it, the "privacy" declarations telll you that your information IS NOT private, and is available to ANYPLACE the gvt decides to send it. INCLUDING the IRS, who has proven to be a political tool. and, if a pol wants to use it for political pressure, WHAT GVT ENTITY IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE IRS?????

'we know what's best": the current 'in power' elites truely BELIEVE that they know better than YOU, the 'uneeducated, unwashed masses' what's best for you. they therefore have the right to IMPOSE THEIR WILL ON YOU. after all, they know BETTER THAN YOU what's in your best interests.


THINK FOR YOURSELF. **READ** the bills!! decide for YOURSELF!!

DeeLittle — November 2, 2013 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, give old Benton a few thumbs down for that higher Ed tuition thingy.
UW and WSU, for example, got the authority to set tuition rates a couple years ago. The bill included NO further Cuts to the universities, but that was pretty much it.
Trust me, Benton had zero to do with lower/higher tuition.
Nice try by him though.

luvithere — November 3, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So Greg Jayne thinks light rail is useless in all the local cities that already have it? Really? He jokingly (I hope) suggests more write-in candidates in Clark County's election that is already bulging with confusing names and issues? Amazing.

You don't have to be an expert in something to express an opinion, but Jayne's forte was sports talk.

All I can think of, after reading Jayne's column today, is "D'oh." All I can ask is this question, "Is Jayne the bone they are throwing to all those readers who accuse the C of being too liberal?"

There are conservative columnists I read and respect for their ability to make an intelligent point well: Krauthamer, Will, Friedman for starters. I was a huge William F Buckley reader and fan. I grew up ingesting Mike Royko with glee. So don't accuse me of disliking the messenger simply because of his message. I like a well-penned conservative argument. Some have helped me change my mind or, at least, open it. :)

Jayne has not yet found his editorial voice, I think. He is clumsy and fumbling. I hope, as time goes on, he becomes more comfortable in his new skin. It is not easy putting your heart and soul in ink every week for armchair critics like me. I want our local newspaper to thrive. If Jayne helps them do that, Godspeed all. I just won't be expecting too much from him.


The new police chief in Vancouver sounds interesting. I like his self-reported philosophy and strong educational bonafides. Cannot wait to see if his ideas gain any traction here or if they are just hype. Good luck to him.

manthou — November 3, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Some great tunes.


manthou — November 3, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.

Well said manthou. Jayne admittedly began his voting experience mocking the system and apparently continues to do so. Ridiculous "points", seemingly based in late night drinking talking of football scores and light rail crime. Maybe the amount of comments he draws, as well as his lack of vision is commensurate with his salary.

I too enjoy well thought conservative commentary, which seems to be going by the wayside faster than George Will signing a Fox news contract. After the word no is used an infinite number of times, where do they go?

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On the "tepid turnout" article. The pic is worth a thousand words. The average age is of involvement is about a 104. Somehow, someway, we need to get a younger crowd involved in our election process. Otherwise, just due to aging and life expectations, we'll be reduced to a few hundred ancient voters come election time, and we know what side of the aisle they'll favor.

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I like the two ideas that Kimsey says will be revisited by the legislature next year: early pre-registration option for all 16 year olds getting their driver's licenses and mandatory ballot boxes at all public universities in WA.

I noticed the age of the workers, too. Bless their hearts. May they continue to live long lives. We need them.

manthou — November 3, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — November 3, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.

Booooooooring. Jayne has no zip or spark or, or, or anything for that matter. Just another boring story. At least Laird made some people sit up and take notice. Laird would solicit pages of comments, Jayne, maybe one.

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.

"Laird would solicit pages of comments, Jayne, maybe one."

Although last week over a hundred. He'll learn to invest in talking points which appease those stuck in faux talking points brought on from the right wing Fox bubble. When he produces a column based on personal experience or attempts to balance opinion, (as in this weeks column) is when commentary numbers go down.

At times I wonder how beneficial it is to allow a comments section to most articles. They either just seem to highlight what an uninformed electorate we have, or provide a soapbox for individual ego driven diatribe.

Speaking of a soapbox, I wonder where our very own forum soapbox has disappeared to?

One thing about HC when he posted here, it certainly drove the numbers of talking points up. If someone's complaining did indeed foster his banishment, I hope you're happy. I feel this forum runs better with all involved.

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Brr a bit chilly today..

Ballets done and ready to make the trip to the ballet box.

Veggie beef stew simmering, bread in the oven, Texas apple cake ready for the oven when the breads done...ahh the smells of fall..nothing better!

As far as Jayne's piece, the comments had more fire in the writes than Jayne's did.

nailingit, I just stopped reading HC. Didn't put him on ignore, didn't patronize him anymore.
After awhile, I saw he was just a troll. Last time he went MIA was just before the last election. He comes in, stirs the pots then 3 times now he just goes MIA within days of a election. I also noticed the closer we got to each election day he kind of goes off the deep end.

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I want our local newspaper to thrive.

manthou — November 3, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.

In 1983 50 corporations owned about 90% of all media. Now that number is 6 corporations. Who said deregulation didn't benefit Disney, Time Warner, Clear Channel, CBS, Viacom, and of course News Corp?

On the other hand, The Columbian is part of the 10% not yet absorbed by them. You bet they need to thrive, and if they throw bones to both sides of the political arena or schlock AP feeds, it's still part of a diminishing breed...Independent news.

jacjak — November 3, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Veggie beef stew simmering, bread in the oven, Texas apple cake ready for the oven when the breads done...ahh the smells of fall..nothing better!

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 1:24 p.m.

Uh, wouldn't that be just "vegetable stew"?

HC didn't just go MIA, he got the boot. No sign of him anywhere.

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 1:47 p.m

Vegetable stew has no meat, vegetable beef has cubes of beef with veggies.

Well in my book he is where to be found..

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi, cooking beef stew with veggies and barley myself today. Also just baking a pie filled with apples, cranberries, golden raisins, good wintery kind of spices, toasted walnuts at bottom. Might as well recognize tis the season to switch what I make.

luvithere — November 3, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, let's hope the cat comes back. Typically, he is a bit more mellow after a forced absence.

luvithere — November 3, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Chili and corn bread. My chili has beans (black, pinto and kidney). Middling hot - I use anaheims and a few jalapenos, and a couple different kinds of chili powders. A cup of cabernet sauvignon and a couple of tablespoons of ground espresso. The cornbread is the sweet variety, with some molasses added.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks everyone for your support and caring. You are a great bunch and worth my headaches and hug spreading...hahahaha

Even if they kick me out for the nth time, this has to be said. I hate snitches and censors! I am right most of the time. I am a nobody and proud of it. Like someone said once....

Be a first rate of yourself than a second rate of someone else! Have got to be unique, in contempt against lies and deceit, charlatans and demagogues!

Jayne or whatever his name is not of my liking. His weekly write ups sucks and this last one ought to earn him a pink slip. F the Madore 4! Period.

I loved Leavitt on channel 8 straight talk last night. Turley sucks! Truly, he sucks!

Other than that hugs for everyone but the rat and the censor!

I hope Osama Mad-Laden Mad-onis loses his money and face this election. We don't need no stinking evangelist in this town politics. Not because I am against prayer or religion because that is not the issue. The issue is the marriage of religion and politics and a minority trying to overrule a majority. Also, I like due process and honesty. The Benton thing is despicable and the 4 stooges have got to go. So is Hinton, Berrigan, Lew BackWaters, the Wacko hubbyless Crain and the cry me a river Petterson.

On the facebook side all Mad-onis lovers have got to ship out of town. Like someone said wisely...the flat earth ones....the yesterday ones...have got to go. Let's embrace the future and get rid of this cancer that has destroyed this community lately!


nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — November 3, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. -- "Trust me, Benton had zero to do with lower/higher tuition."

Duly noted, and points deducted. Maybe he just thought whatever he claims he did led to tuition not rising? Or maybe his being Deputy Senate Leader caused everything he sees as good to happen?

roger — November 3, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, have you ever tried making the chili and cornbread as a casserole??? I found the recipe on the Trader Joe's website (below). You can substitute your homemade chili rather than the canned stuff. It's pretty tasty...and saves on dishes...8)))

goldenoldie — November 3, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.

We don't need Laird's words here in the forum. We've got our own little puppy dog with plenty of spitfire...8P

goldenoldie — November 3, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, but No and No. I like my chili with rice. Asian sticky rice, made in my rice cooker. That recipe is basically a lazy man's tamale.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Watch out GD, I hump the legs of bored wives everywhere! Then I work my way up...yikes...the thought creeps me out...hahahaha

But you can pet me just once! >:]P

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:02 p.m.

I doubt that anybody censored you. Heck, I didn't even flag you...don't know if anybody did. Mostly, our heated debates back and forth were mostly ignored, I think.

And know without your bold, unarguable comments, the C needed you to keep the forum hoppin'. Actually, they need all of us to keep it going...8))

So pups...was this the nth time or the nth times ten???

goldenoldie — November 3, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 3, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.

ooh...I'll have to try that one of these days!!! Good way to turn down the heat.

goldenoldie — November 3, 2013 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.

Glad this wife is never bored. I'll gladly pass on your offer...8)))

goldenoldie — November 3, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow. You all are bodacious in the kitchen today! The combined fragrances, if you could share them all electronically, would increase my calorie intake by thousands. Yum.

jackjak @ 1:46 PM: I could not agree more about protecting our family-owned newspapers. Corporate media is very bad for our country's democracy health. When so many newspapers and TV stations are owned by the same conglomerate (think NewsCorp), then we really have an issue with biased, filtered reporting.

nicepuppy @ 3:02. Welcome back. Someone obviously filed a complaint. How many pseudonyms does this make now?

manthou — November 3, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I knew I was right to call you Crapper - a good name for a puppy that isn't housebroken.

Jayne's problem is mostly that he's a boring writer. His basic premise, that we've become a single issue town and that our elections have revolved around this is a good one. And he's right to ask where we go once the CRC is finally put to rest. He seems to think everyone will return to the drawing board and negotiate something more acceptable to all. (I'm not so sure.) As far as what's next - I'd say we've got the 4th Plain BRT and the Graymor Waterfront project (which is in part subsidized by the taxpayer).

Whether MAX is good for the Oregon cities he mentions is debatable. MAX is an excellent way to get to downtown Portland, or to see the Timbers. (I'd still rather drive to the Rose Garden - plenty of parking there.) But it has proven incapable of keeping up with the population growth. The Blue line carries almost as many riders as the other three combined, and yet OR26 is probably the most crowded highway of all. Bus service has had to be cut, due to the TriMet pensions and the many bonds that have come due. MAX has led to an increase in crime in both Gresham and Clackamas (per their police chiefs). Gangs are now common in Hillsboro, and MAX can be considered one reason this has happened. Whatever - his questioning whether MAX is beneficial is a valid point.

Laird was a very polished and entertaining writer - a master of the opinion piece. That he wrote what you (manthou, nails, luvithere) agreed with made him that much better. Maybe Jayne will improve with time.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Do you know Manthou? I lost count but not that many.

I find it ridiculous to ban me. I am the reason why people in politics ought to not mess with meritocracy and stay honest! I am their antibody. If they would play nice and follow accepted rules and ethical way all over, this would never happen.

Don't mess with the environment because messing with it, is enough reason for me and many others to lay it on the line.

Some people want to sell this County to Right Wingers, Racism and Environment destruction. That ain't gonna happen if we stand together in contempt!

Yes, my head maybe cut off from time to time but if we don't raise a stink, they will get away with it and ruin this area. As simple as that.

Madonis is talking about Yacolt and Amboy. That is biker country and he will be kicked out in no time. There is no chance in hell bikers will have communion with that guy. No way in hell. He is in the minds of a few already. Especially that Pike idion meeting with slave traders to reduce wages and get away with it.

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It seems to me anytime you start off with "veggie" something or other, it sounds like it has no meat in it. Now if you said Vegetable beef stew.....

Anyway, that's how I understood you, no big deal.

Yo, puppy breath, have a nice vacation?

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nope, I was pissed off Hawk in a screw them type of attitude, then I said, hell no. The election is around the corner and I want to say my piece win or lose. They may ban me but that won't stop the truth. You guys know it! I am on the right side of history...and so are you!

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, if there was a rat and censor then I suspect nicepuppy will lead a short life. It only took ten minutes to get back on track.

Goldie - I suggest a few whacks with your rolled up Columbian. Puppies have to be taught manners - especially the yapper dog type. (All kinds of possibilities that makes me think this one is going to be fun - hopefully he lasts for a while. )

roger — November 3, 2013 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well that didn't take long. Welcome back, kitty, eh, Puppy. But you do deserve a whack already with that not so nice swipe at Gold. Stay a bit nicer and we hope we can keep you for a while.

luvithere — November 3, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Watching the end of the Sea- HAWKs game. 5th quarter. About to score......

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Game over, Seattle 27, TB 24

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My hunch, maybe yours, maybe not...

Republican have lost two elections and lost Obamacare. Some idiots bent over to the tea party and now they want to run the show. Their plan was always to loot the American people's savings an equity leaving them in debt via wars, asset and job extinction to force them back to submission and vote republican again.

On top of that they shit the government down and lost 24 more billion of the economy in 17 days, just as another hellish message if we don't submit. Now at the local level, representatives like Pike have the nerve to meet with a few "conspirators" to lower even more the wages locally to turn this County as their prized possession. Either you submit to our misery wages or you starve or you leave. We won't create jobs otherwise. We will reduce your hours, your wages whatever we can get away with in order to get back in government. We will reduce your food stamps too. That is the way these people are. Romney was saying so this morning in meet the press pretty much, elect us and we will create jobs. They are not creating jobs on purpose to starve the economy and get rid off Obama and Hillary.

These people are evil forum dwellers, evil as evil can do. They want to control everything and they will unless we resist. They started this war a long time ago. Even Madonis said in 2011 as reported for all you to see that they will do it by reason or force. The outcome is the same. Total control. They flooded the country with illegals too to further undermine the middle class. A strong middle class is their defeat. They will not be able to maintain themselves on top. It is a pyramid people, not a cube. Haven't you got that already? Look at your dollar bill.

If you don't believe everything I wrote, you live in a different world . To me is clear as water and the handwriting is on the wall. There is a war going on and the enemy is you and I.

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, the White House staff is doing their best to tap dance around the issue of so many health insurance plans being canceled. Pres Obama may have promised people could keep their plans if they liked them, but those who wrote the law determined otherwise.

"... a key part of the law is forcing insurers to offer an “essential health benefits” package, providing coverage in 10 categories. The list includes: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

"For some plans, this would be a big change. In 2011, the Department of Health and Human Services noted: “62 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for maternity services; 34 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for substance abuse services; 18 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for mental health services; 9 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for prescription drugs.”

The rules on grandfathering were so strict that few survived the cut.

The big problem is that Pres Obama kept repeating that pledge that people could keep their plans after the law was written and it became clear this wasn't true.

The Post's Fact Checker gives him 4 Pinocchios - He told a whopper of a lie.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nicepuppy — November 3, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.

Hey pup-back crappin' cupcakes I see! Good for you.

I wrote Patty Murray a brief note last week, and suggested as a starting point for future budget negotiations she insist on off-setting shutdown costs. Only fair.

There is a noticeable change of spirit within the Dem party that seems to have more resolve with these issues than in the past. I certainly hope it lasts.


Remember guys-voting deadline is nigh at hand.

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal




hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 3:41 p.m

Well ya dang yankee get with the times, learn southern cooking terms! LOL
j/k ;)
I promise I will be more of a prissy northerner next time..

Now do you want to know that in the Texas apple cake I put "chunks" not "diced" apples in it? and, and..I used pecans (pronounced pee-cans) instead of walnuts this time. and..near about 3 cups of flour and near 2 cups sugar?

All in good fun Hawkeye, all in good fun. ;)

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 7:16 p.m.

And I can pick mine up WHEN????

The only Southern cooking term I need to remember is Cracker Barrel. Wish we had one here.

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 3, 2013 at 5:46 p.m. Just thought to print a bit more of your article. I suppose "whopper" can be in the eyes of the beholder. (the exception being those tasty malted milk balls)

Now, it’s important to note that many people — perhaps a large majority — are receiving notices that they have lost their insurance plan because they were never grandfathered in the first place. In other words, they got a plan after the bill was signed into law back in 2010. If that’s the case, they have no option but to accept the more comprehensive insurance mandated by the law.

Still, it’s worth remembering that insurance companies pressed throughout the health-care debate to allow people to keep the policy they had effective at the end of 2013.  The consequences of the unusual March 23, 2010, cut-off date are now being felt. HHS, when it drafted the interim rules, estimated that between 40 and 67 percent of policies in the individual market are in effect for less than one year. “These estimates assume that the policies that terminate are replaced by new individual policies, and that these new policies are not, by definition, grandfathered,” the rules noted.

Moreover, it’s certainly incorrect to claim, as some Republicans have, that people are losing insurance coverage. Instead, in virtually all cases, it’s being replaced with probably better (and possibly more expensive) insurance.

In recent days, administration officials have argued that the plans that are going away are “substandard” and lacked essential protections — and that many people may qualify for tax credits to mitigate the higher premiums that may result from the new requirements.

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 7:25 p.m

Have to agree with Cracker Barrel..good food for sure!
Miss them, been about 5 yrs last I had any. When my oldest brother, his wife and I spent 7 wks in the south tracing our family we couldn't keep his wife away from them. Every town we went to that's the first thing she'd ask if they had one. Spent almost the same amount of time looking for a Cracker Barrel as we did looking through city/town records and cemeteries (grave yards).

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You might want to read this, Nails.

"But Democratic leaders in the House and the Senate have joined with their Republican counterparts to rule out any long-term deal — Republicans because they refuse to consider tax changes and Democrats because they will not consider changing the popular benefit programs without Republican concessions on revenues — especially with midterm congressional elections approaching in 2014."

roger — November 3, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, it's been a little disconcerting reading on the sovereign citizens movement, knowing they are counted as 'radical' by law enforcement, but one who counts himself as one of them is running for office right here in CC. It's an assumption on my part, but 'dismantling' is not the same as 'improving' or 'updating'. I thought the whole new charter intent was to improve, made adaptions for a larger, more encompassing populace, etc., not to undermine through anti-government extremes. Sigh...

So, I'm glad nicepuppy is not willing to roll over... ouch, no pun intended, but willing to watch and speak up. We all need to be keeping careful watch for dangers... from any direction.

nicepuppy, I liked your 'antibody' reference too, but it did make me think about free radicals -- too funny.

jacjak — November 3, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My dog is disgusted by your dog's lack of dignity.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The only Southern cooking term I need to remember is Cracker Barrel. Wish we had one here.

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 7:25 p.m.

Ditto, and double ditto!! The closest Cracker Barrel is Boise. It used to be the other side of the Rockies tho, so coming closer. Used to miss the Waffle House on every corner too, but now that Biscuits Cafe is closer, the waffle craving gets a fix now and then.

jacjak — November 3, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

EL, I'm headed to Vegas on Friday but driving up to Utah to Cracker Barrel for lunch on Monday. Can't wait. My Wife is from below the Mason/Dixon line so we eat Southern quite often. Huge fan on Biscuits and gravy.

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Have you eaten at the Black Bear Diner? They do a good job with breakfast, and their chicken fried steak with white gravy will hold its own against any truck stop diner I've ever been to. I've eaten at the one in Bend and the one up in Oly - There's also one in Beaverton that I've never gone to.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — November 3, 2013 at 8:03 p.m

While in Vegas make a stop at the Cheesecake Factory, and try their Shepard Pie, that is if you've never had it there.
They also have wonderful turkey clubs too.

The closest Cheesecake Factory to us is in Tigard.

ELISI — November 3, 2013 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — November 3, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. - 7:51 p.m.

I can't see any long term deal until one party gains total control. If Republicans shut down the government again that just might happen.

On the other. He's a dog! And not lucky enough to be one described by Bubba. (but he's working on it-the dignity thing that is-not the....:)

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That damn Obummer gots to be fum New York if he don't find that stuff funny. Just sayin'.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And in seriousness, that's exactly why he doesn't connect with a lot of the country - he's seen as an effete intellectual snob. Bubba is/was one of the people.

roger — November 3, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man, that's some nasty stuff. And here I thought it was because he was an anti American illegal commie anti-christ from Kenya.

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bubba is/was one of the people. -- roger — November 3, 2013 at 9:10 p.m.

Remember college student Clinton’s letter to the draft board about wanting to maintain his “political viability”. While it’s a nicely written letter, I really don’t trust anyone who has, at an early age, their goal in life to be the President. Go to college, go to law school, then go into politics. Afaic, it becomes a matter of learning all the right things to say, or not to say, to win elections, rather than developing a strength of character through a life of experience. There was author Merle Miller’s book “Plain Speaking” on Harry Truman, and then there was the book “Primary Colors” by “anonymous” and the movie that followed on a novel about politician bubba. Slick Willy.

Clarence Thomas was “electronically lynched” over some allegations of pursuing what’s her name, and comments at a party about a pubic hair in a coke can. Then there’s Slick Willy, and allegations of dropping his pants in front of state employee Paula Jones in a hotel room, and groping Kathleen Willy in the Oval Office, then there’s Lewinski, and then there was Juanita Broaddrick and her story of being vilolently raped by Clinton when he was the Arkansas AG, which NBC’s Dateline finally aired. Finally.

That Thomas should so badly be vilified, and Clinton can be thought of as a man of the people, says much about the state of journalism, so called, and of the state honest political discussion. The hypocrisy is just stunning.

kn_dalai — November 3, 2013 at 11:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — November 3, 2013 at 9:33 p.m.

Well, it worked for Spiro T - for a while, anyhow. A lot of people liked that stuff. (I was on the receiving end, so not so much so here.)

kn_dalai — November 3, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.,

Bubba liked to play the field; if Hill didn't pull a Lorena Bobbitt on him, well what can we say. The evidence and testimony was all over the place with Broaddrick; she denied it before she changed and said it happened. Her main witnesses were shown to have a grudge; Bubba commuted the sentence of their father's killer. Even her husband didn't believe a "violent rape" took place. As for Thomas, yes - the evidence was flimsy. It was widely viewed that he was a victim of how sexual harassment policy is implemented by our federal government. I suppose one could say he was vindicated - He sits on the US Supreme Court, while Anita Hill has become an obscure footnote in our history. (Or was that just literary license that you couldn't remember her name?)

But seriously - All of that stuff is politics, flamed by journalists pursuing a story. The attacks on Clinton by the Religious Right for the Lewinski affair were a joke, considering that their televangelist leaders were guilty of this and more.

roger — November 4, 2013 at 5:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anita Hill stayed classy and within the margins. Thomas is an embarrassment to the court and to the people.

And Rush Limbaugh is wealthier than God.

I wonder why.....

nailingit — November 4, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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