Open forum, Sept 23-29

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471 comments

Comments

This will be messy for a few years. Republican infighting has become the order of the day, reaching new levels across America. We're watching history in the making. Shock & Awe.

Death by a thousand cuts.

///Iowa GOP Infighting Could Cost a Senate Seat///

The battle raging among Ron Paul acolytes running the state party and establishment Republicans might have 2016 implications too.

DES MOINES, Iowa—Republicans have a once-in-a-generation shot at capturing an open U.S. Senate seat but first they'll have to stop fighting among themselves.

A nasty and personal civil war has broken within the ranks of the Republican Party of Iowa, replete with charges of mismanagement, backroom conspiracies, and eliminated Facebook friendships. Already, two members of the party's central committee have called on the GOP chairman to resign. And forces faithful to Republican Gov. Terry Branstad are mobilizing loyalists to take back power next year.

Scuffles within state parties are commonplace, but the stakes are higher here. Iowa hasn't had an open Senate seat since 1984 and the state's funky nominating rules make it possible – even likely – that party leaders and delegates, instead of the voters, will pick the GOP nominee next year at a convention. The fact that the warring party leadership will play host to the leadoff 2016 presidential caucuses only sharpens the significance of the feuding.

"I've never seen anything like this in my 25 years of political activism," said Jamie Johnson, one of the central committee members, who has called for the resignation of the party chairman. "The inmates are running the asylum."

The current fight boils down to who controls the state GOP's headquarters, a rehabbed former funeral parlor located two blocks from the state Capitol. Since last year, that job has belonged to A.J. Spiker, a former co-chair of Ron Paul's Iowa presidential campaign.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/iowa-gop-infighting-could-cost-a-senate-seat-20130923?utm_content=buffer6ce09&utm;_source=buffer&utm;_medium=twitter&utm;_campaign=Buffer

___

Rancid Tea…it's killing them.

///Clark County's GOP takes new path///

As local Republican Party shakes up leadership, stakes out sharply conservative platform, some longtime members say they don't feel welcome

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fiscaltiger is back - posting on The Oregonian on the article about four blasts at the enyan mall. ft claims this is all retaliation against Israel. The al Shabab leader in Somalia says it's because of Kenya entering Somalia. I'll take his version; the bad guys are his people.

roger — September 23, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC- I was really bored this morning. Bored enough to check out Loo Waters blog. And that's pretty damn bored.

Anyway, there seems to be a concerted effort to get you banned from the Columbian. I'm thinking man, there is so much to discuss politically, and this guy posts your comments and states he's feverishly trying to contact the C about you. And with the support of a long time poster here.

There seems to be only 5 or 6 who post to his blog, and understandably so.

I'm going to show it to my wife and tell her, 'If I ever get this petty and immature about someone I haven't even met, shoot me.'

Understandably it's rough on some folks growing old, and certainly those of us who post here are no exception.

Remember the snitches in school? The ones who would run to the teach or principle to report perceptual wrongdoing hoping to curry favor with the establishment rulers?

Evidently they grow old and blog. And blog. And blog.

Even if no one is reading.

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now roger is sourcing fiscaltiger.

AAAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRRGGGG!!!

Help!!!

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,
so they are trying to ban HC from here, via Lew's blog? I am not reading that - so, you are serious??? They actually mention it? Don't they have anything better to do with their time? That's hilarious.

We might all be annoyed with the cat, but he is OUR cat. Only we get to punish/banish the cat!

luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC- Interesting site. At least his phrasing and word usage are several notches above Loo's blog. It's trashy RW stuff, but at least he can articulate it.

I don't think these guys realize just how collectively foolish they sound. (and they all parrot the same message).

As I said a couple of weeks ago about meeting Clark County's transportation needs. Until a good portion of those against are pushing up dirt, forget about it.

15-20 years. Unless our friends across the river can keep the zombiefied CRC alive.

I never thought the House could be taken next election, and still doubt it because of extreme republican state gerrymandering.

But now those same states will have many turning blue from the health care debacle.

Yes, their politics are brutish for sure. And they're certainly not lacking for bigoted knuckledraggers to carry their torch.

Not understanding, they're snuffing out the flame with every word they speak.

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Nails,
so they are trying to ban HC from here, via Lew's blog?"

luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 12:32 p.m

Apparently so. And being enabled by one of our own. As much as it pains me to repost this nonsense, here is what I referred to @ 12:08

Referring to a comment from HC about the One-Eyed-Don...

"The paper has been contacted by several for this vitriolic comment left prior to 7 AM this morning. At the time of this writing, it stands untouched."

..

"Yet, over 24 hours later, nothing! Apparently, as long as it is Sen. Don Benton, a Republican that the Lazy Z has a long history of violating their own guidelines in attacking, in spite of over 20 years in elected office, it is tolerated.

I have no doubt that if anybody made such a comment directed at Barack Obama or even if they looked forward to 49th Legislative district Rep. Jim ‘sue your constituents to invalidate their votes to make raising their taxes easier’ Moeller contracted AIDs, it would be removed immediately and rightfully so. No doubt whoever wrote it likely would be banned."

Goldenoldie

September 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM

"Nothing surprises me on the forum, Lew. They’ve become extremely lenient in recent months on the basement of the birdcage liner.

Remember the one named “alleycat” and what he used to do??? Same MO, different avatar and was kicked off the comment section before the big changeover to Facebook. This isn’t the first “demented” statement by holycrapola. He does it to get people riled up…almost as if it’s on purpose to get people talking. Most the time, comments such as these are shrugged off by the few people who still linger in the forum.

Consider the source!!!"

Goldenoldie

September 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM

"Regarding your comment at 11:06 pm Lew…I believe you are right as evidenced by the wild banter by the one you speak about. They know I’m a registered Republican. I’ve let it be known many times on the forum. Just sneeze and the attacks begin! Now I’m labeled as Judas (and a few other things) because I stood up to the person and said something to them about their disgusting wish and that I commented here on your blog. Doesn’t this just bring back memories to you from when you once posted there???"
 

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"One person complaining about the commenter looking forward to an elected officials death was told that John Hill, moderator wasn’t in the office today, but he would forward the complaint and have it handled."

"UPDATE: Nearly two days later, the offensive comment has been taken down. We have to ask, why was it allowed to remain for such a length of time and after numerous complaints?"

luvit- I should have included this also. Just pathetic......and hilarious! :))

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh how cute...sticking up for someone who wishes death upon another human just because they don't agree with his or her political views.

Nice! Tells me a lot about the type of people YOU are! The same ones who condemn religious groups, especially those who go out and volunteer their hearts, their time...to help those in need while YOU waste your time here on the forum, blasting MY rights to FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION!!!

At least I don't wish death upon my fellow human because he or she is different from me!

Sheesh!!!

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 23, 2013 at 12:05 p.m.

A cat with a different name is still a cat.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WOW, gone just one week and all hell breaks out on the "C". GO is off talking trash about us to LOO, HC wants some guy dead and just who is that guy writing the blog that HC posted. Seems he/she is afraid to put their name on it.

Let's wait and watch, should we kids?????

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just using your own words and expressing a disdain for tattle tales.

As always...a perennial victim for sure.

Besides, this is why you posted the nonsense to begin with, right? In hopes of garnering someones attention so you can do what you're doing now. Just obliging.

The only victims are those unfortunate to peruse Loo's site to begin with.

What nonsense.

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whew! Close call.

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm bummed. My avatar ability is extremely limited due to Mac infused Wi-Fi dump. My world has changed! :)

I've gotta get this fixed.

I know I have a pic or two of a crazy old woman yelling at me. :)

nailingit — September 23, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC I visit Lews site once in awhile.I have also commented on it.Lew does do some good things that I agree with.He is a huge supporter of Veterans and their rights.I like that part of him.He is very honest in his convictions and will argue till he is blue in the face.I also visit Temple Lentz once in awhile.She is the mirror opposite of Lew.Does it make either of them bad people.No I don't think it does.You are somewhat like both of them in your own right.And you have to admit you do say things to try to stir people up.All of us with a opinion always think we are right.It is what makes the world go around.By the way I do agree with you about Benton,how he got to where he is is beyond me.If you really want to see the true Benton go to a meeting and listen in person sometime.How he keeps getting elected in also beyond me.

timerick — September 23, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lois Lerner stepping down on "her terms" I din't do it... That worked for Nixon and Clinton and look what that got them.. Invoking the 5th in a couple weeks instead of getting raked through the muck of congressional Ire....

Let me see, you personally signed letters to target specific R groups which most were Tea Party.. And you say you've done nothing wrong, YIKES>>>> Her husband or partner better lock the doors tonight, she has some of thoise huge cajonnies... Even told the new incoming director to :): himself... This gives some credence to the theory she will take all the blame and give Mr Obama some Plausable Deniability in the whole matter... That's what he's good for... That called Chicago Politics.. Let someone else take the fall for your acts== Mob Boss of our government.. Thank god we live in little ol vantucky... Hell the white house thought we were in canada anyway...

This should be as much fun as watching the baseball players testify in front of congress what back in 05 or 07.. I have never taken steroids... OOPPPS.. Lois will probably blame Bush..LOL

vanwadreamer — September 23, 2013 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lew Waters; one of the better bloggers around, has yet another excellent write on the CRC project. Lew, with study information provided by economist Joe Cortright, shows once again how disgusting the efforts of the lite rail pom pommers are, as they continue to try and shove their pie in the sky project off on Clark County.

Economist warns: Renewed CRC Promises Gridlock on I-205

[http://lewwaters.com/2013/09/23/economist-warns-renewed-crc-promises-gridlock-on-i-205/#more-11514][1]

[1]: http://lewwaters.com/2013/09/23/economist-warns-renewed-crc-promises-gridlock-on-i-205/#more-11514

kn_dalai — September 23, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For you, HC, to criticise Lew Waters for bashing, is like the whale criticising the goldfish for taking up too much space.

As far as that article by Lew goes; you didn’t read it. You only looked at the headline.

I think you also used the word “ambiguous” wrong. I think you meant duplicitious, which would also be wrong.

kn_dalai — September 23, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 23, 2013 at 3:30 p.m

Well, I read it and it's no big surprise. Everybody knows a lot of traffic will be diverted to 205. Most of it will go because of construction, some will go because of tolls and there will be those that are there because it's closer to them. Why would this surprise ANYONE? And Lew makes it sound like it's new news. The only reason he wrote the whole damn thing is to promote the people he wants in office, PERIOD. He wants everyone to believe that if "HIS" people get in, the bridge either won't happen or they will make it all better. Well guess what, it ain't happening. Turley and Stewart (if elected) will have no control over anything. This thing is on the State and Federal level and if they want it, it's going to happen.

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


How he keeps getting elected in also beyond me.

timerick — September 23, 2013 at 3:14 p.m

He gets elected because he lies in mailers that he sends out at the last minute and it's too late for any opponent to counter, especially to those voters who only are involved during elections and use mailers as a information source. He did this to both David Carrier and Tim Probst. Or he threatens to sue, like he did to Probst about the 'king benton' mailer that Probst had nothing to do with (it was a PAC). He does that so he can come off looking like a victim while defusing the villain image drawn from his actions. He does all this because he knows loads of voters look at the words and not at the deeds. It's easier for them and takes less time, and they still manage to feel engaged. When all else fails he talks and then talks more about how he protects us from child predators or sex slavers or unemployment abusers or some other scarey threat that lurks just over the horizon.

http://votesmart.org/
http://www.pdc.wa.gov/
Both good sites to track how many votes he actually missed in his 17 years, or should I say bothered to show up for.

jacjak — September 23, 2013 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, there’s also nothing surprising about the CRC rising from the dead, dead, dead. But if that’s going to happen, then the CRC opposition is going to have to continue bringing home the point of how wrong, wrong, wrong, light rail is. Over and over and over.

kn_dalai — September 23, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, if you want the REAL story, get it from the REAL news.

http://wweek.com/portland/blog-30724-tolls_on_the_columbia_river_crossing_will_max_out_interstate_205.html

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, depending on where you live, what your destination is, the price of fuel and the price of the toll, it could be a wash.

Think about it. If you live in Vancouver and use 205 instead of 5, it could cost you more in gas than tolls.

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Good grief another day of "Henny Penny" ,"Doomsday" ,"get yer constantine wire" ,"load up on ammo", "GOP is tearing this country apart" , "Christians are horrible uncaring people" , " Churches should step-up to feed and house the people and pay their bills". If you are a person that has worked all their life, and paid into social security.. retire and get social security you are bad, bad person. WTF!!

Criticize, criticize, criticize blah blah blah someone needs a job, hobby or both. Get out of the basement and get a life.. go back on your medication will you!

ELISI — September 23, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye I just read Lews blog.I didn't see anything new.Cortright has been saying the same thing for the last couple of years. Roger has pointed it out many times.Most of us have thought all along that 205 would be tolled. But where is Oregon going to get the money to pull this off. And is Oregon going to buy the property along the rail tracks? Can Oregon use emmient domain to grab the right of ways? I think that Oregon has a long ways to go and not much support from their elected ones.

timerick — September 23, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Spent a little time looking at the Voter's Pamphlet this AM. Perhaps my expectations were too high, or I did not know what to expect, but must admit I was disappointed somewhat. So few of those running for Freeholder stated any positions. How are we to know what POV they will carry with them to meetings for a whole year. Lots about wives and kids and being a Mom (?!?), and lots of buzz words and sound bites, but not much substance as to what they are willing to scrap for and about in all those meetings.

And, I was surprised with how many are already elected officials, too. What? They don't have enough to do? Or do they feel name recognition will give them an edge in pounding out details of the charter? I read just today Liz Pike was appointed to the Transportation Committee (I think), and yet she has these silly-big signs for a Freeholder position. How many hats does she think she needs, anyway? Speaking of signs, what's with all the pom-pom cheerleader phrases? I think Bill Turlay's slogan is the same as Obama's... something like 'Yes, we can!'. Will have to check closer.

jacjak — September 23, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 2:15 p.m

Trash talking about "US?" Kinda melodramatic, wouldn't you say? Why don't you go back and re-read the comment. Thanks to Nails, the comment is available on their post @1:02 pm. Did I say anything about you or Nails or manthou or Luvit or Kn_dalai or ELISI or Tim or JacJak or any other besides the cat??? The discussion on the blog was regarding the wish upon the death of another human being...referencing the cat's comment which was removed last week as well as the extreme bias noted by Lew.

And to the rest of you who are questioning my statement on the other blog(s)....

Care to tell me what was misinformation in my statements? Care to explain to me how wrong I was when I said that the Columbian has become extremely lenient on the forum? Care to prove to me that the Columbian isn't recycled and used as birdcage liners? I've used it for YEARS! And care to prove me wrong that the cat didn't say their statement just to get a rise out of their vitriol? I said it once and I'll say it again...just to make it official that I said it here on the forum. This isn’t the first “demented” statement by holycrapola. He does it to get people riled up…almost as if it’s on purpose to get people talking. Most the time, comments such as these are shrugged off by the few people who still linger in the forum.

Now...if you don't believe me...then go back and read the cat's comments today.

And just for the record, I did write an email to John Hill...TWO in fact...expressing my concern for a certain comment or two or three last week...but at NO TIME did I request censoring the cat or anybody else. NOT ONE BIT! So I thank you for the false accusatory nature my fellow forum dwellers.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is my post last night. It was the last one. I am posting again so that the follow up makes sense. I will post Burkman's latest post next along w/Madore's.

Manthou --- from Jack Burkman's FB page approx 9 PM:

Jack Burkman for Vancouver City Council
It’s a shame that a PAC named “Vancouver Vitality” sent a hit piece attacking me and Tim Leavitt to voters this week. They don’t say who is behind it, failing to put the PDC required top funders’ names on it.

They claim I am “against the citizens of Vancouver” because I kept the “binding citizen petition” off the ballot. If I had supported putting that petition on the ballot, I would have broken the law. I would have violated our city charter, state law and the state constitution – the very laws I swore to uphold as a councilmember. This isn’t my opinion - this is the finding of a judge.

Who is “Vancouver Vitality” PAC? It took some digging to find the companies behind the PAC, then to find the people who own those companies. This attacking PAC is funded by leaders in the Clark County GOP. (See today’s Columbian for more information on this group) … Jack

langenthal — September 23, 2013 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And let me stress something. You are not a republican conservative...you are a turncoat lady. You choose on convenience depending where the wind is blowing...and I am not the only one that thinks that way.

holycrapola — September 23, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

(the ONLY part of the comment worth reading and responding. The rest...pure vile vitriol)

Cat, you are right. I am not a Republican Conservative. I am registered as a Republican. That...is true. Conservative? In recent weeks, there was a silly little test I believe Hawkeye had found. Some of us took the test. Mine told me I was a Moderate Republican. Funny...when I look in the mirror, I see a human being, not a label. I vote both sides of the ticket and I do so with the conviction that my decision was right. Not always do the people I choose gain the seat in the election but that's part of the game.

Nice that you play the label game, though.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 23, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

Um...yeah. Whatever toots your whistle. You missed a good sailing day yesterday. You would've had plenty of wind at your back.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 23, 2013 at 5:58 p.m.

Drama Queen.

Actually, my second email was a response to John's email. And for the record, I was pleased that we have a politician who listened to the people of Clark County when it came to the issues of the Columbia River Crossing. Senator Benton took action and he was able to prevent funding for a crossing project riddled with poor judgement and wasted spending, thanks mainly to the CRC opposition which BTW includes me as well as many others. You'd be surprised what effect the people have on politics when we are diligent with voicing our opinion with the politicians. That's all, Cat. Nothing other than that. Again, you throw in your vitriol, claiming I have an affection for a politician which if you knew me in real life...you'd know how wrong you are.

You're always saying "grow a pair, lady." Thanks but I'd rather remain FEMALE!!!

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Madore has removed his post so you need to click on the link to see the screen shot. This is Burkman's post at about 5:30 today:

And here comes Commissioner Madore, following up on the recent hit piece. The Facebook post, below, was made as the attack mailer was being delivered to our voters' homes.

Yes, our community does have a choice. Do we want the city of Vancouver to follow in the footsteps of Clark County's leadership; as shown by Commissioner Madore and Mielke? Or do we want skilled, experienced, truly open and transparent leadership for our city?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=624299230924922&set;=np.128833754.100000137085194&type;=1&theater;¬if;_t=notify_me

langenthal — September 23, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LMAO. It is called a mind-set for a reason. D

soapbox4u — September 23, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've sort of been following the development of 3D printing since I read they would be able to 'print' human tissues. Science fiction, anyone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/opinion/sunday/dinner-is-printed.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

jacjak — September 23, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal @ 5:51 pm: So glad you re-posted, as I missed the one last night.

This is a fierce internal fight within the Republican party, locally and nationally. They are destroying each other and anyone outside the party with a vengeance. I noticed that Greg Kimsey is being very diplomatic with these guys.

Glad Jack Burkman is pushing back and posted who is behind Vancouver Vitality. This is going to be a bloody battle, but I cannot imagine Micheline Doane prevailing. Look at her small list of endorsers. Compare that to Jack's.

Clark County Commissioner circus tomorrow!

manthou — September 23, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak: My husband and I were listening to OPB on our way back from the beach today and heard a great discussion on 3-D printing for the arts. I would love to see this technology in action.

I never considered human tissue. Fascinating. I feel so behind-the-times.

manthou — September 23, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou --- Did you see the 6:15 follow up including Madore's post?

City Council now including marijuana and Citizen Forum. Looks like there's quite a crowd but they could be there for proclamations.

langenthal — September 23, 2013 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 23, 2013 at 6:12 p.m.

What makes you think I haven't asked Madore already? Cat, you make a lot of ASSumptions these days. You're definitely setting yourself up for a BIG disappointment. Did you not see my comment @6:07 pm when I said the following???

"You'd be surprised what effect the people have on politics when we are diligent with voicing our opinion with the politicians."

I'd said it for a reason, Cat. You're out of sync again.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 23, 2013 at 6:23 p.m.

When is it not a circus?

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rowdy and cranky little bunch we are today. Must be the weather.

luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Come to think of it...the Feds are putting on quite a show now with the "looming government shutdown" in the next week. How many times have we heard that one???

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 7:13 p.m.

8))

Speaking about the weather, it's playing havoc with our electricity. We've had several episodes of flashing lights over the course of the past hour.

goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO. we heard about the shutdown once too often.

Unfortunately, I do blame one specific side for it this time. But neither here nor there. Here is what I say:

Off their fat indulged (yes, indulged) butts! To work! Stop trying to defund a law. Work on your job for once! EARN your health insurance and fantastic benefits! Compromise, work together, and FOCUS for once. No more hissy fits. Childhood is over. Period.

If one of us would work like them, we would be collecting unemployment bennies in short order.

luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO. My husband is mentioning turning on the heat. I refuse. Just too early in the year. Put another sweater on.

I am hoping for a return of nice weather. I got too much to prune in the yard and not doing it in this rain.

luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 23, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.

Seriously--- you are WAY TOO MUCH for me to even care about.

Drama Queen doesn't even touch it.

Maybe you can write five paragraphs on what I just posted, or maybe go whining to somebody. I don't care.

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok enough picking on Golden.She believes in what she does.We don't have to agree.I have been to a couple of meetings and she does speak up for what she believes.That is a good thing,she gets involved thats more than I do.I don't care if she is right or wrong.Time for a change of subject. Manthou keep your vehicle locked. I got broke into friday night on Esther st.Had nothing to steal except 50 cents and a Leatherman tool.But they made a mess of the truck.Hawkeye did you do any fishing in Alaska. I made a trip to Craig in 2002.Was there a week.It was one of the best trips I have ever been on. Fished for the whole week.It was great.Nice to have you back.I think I got some of your sleep overs by the shop.We have had a mess there the last few days.You can have them back if you want.

timerick — September 23, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: Our truck is not in a garage, either. So sorry yours was targeted Friday night. Ours was hit last year. Ugh.

hawkeye: The blog, Clark County Conservative, is penned by Kelly Hinton, aka "Kage McClued." Not many people comment on it, though. His vitriol and name-calling is beyond the pale. He is Marc Boldt's brother-in-law, but I get the feeling the two are no longer BFFs. What he and Lew Waters have in common: an extreme distaste for The Columbian, as well as anything "liberal."

I am using the new beta web version of the C and I think it is very intuitive and user-friendly. Try posting a comment on it sometime, just to get the hang of it.

manthou — September 23, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 23, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.

No fishing. We actually went on a cruise. It sucked. We went to two ports and had to miss the other two because of weather. 12 foot seas and 70 mph winds. Would have rather been fishing.

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Sorry, link doesn't work. Just Google Kelly Hinton and it will come up.

hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yesterday I went to the SS office. Now I knew they had moved but was unaware that the building they moved into was in a place that has limited parking. I don't know why the hell they moved from a very user friendly area to downtown Vancouver. When I finally found a place to park and went in I found their waiting area full to overflowing. Must have been at least sixty people waiting. The hours of operation have changed. I wonder if the SS is cutting back and will not be able to fund ACA for their employees. LOL

One more thing. The new building they're in is classified as an A-1 building, whatever the hell that means. Apparently it means you don't have to put an address in plain view because it upsets the aesthetics or appearance of it. WHAT THE HELL!!! I feel sorry for those who are looking for the address and can't see it because of the vehicles parked in front.

I want to know who the idiot was that made this decision to relocate the offices in the first place. One more fine example of your tax dollars at work.

I was going to fill out the paperwork but I saw a worker doing nothing so I asked him a question or two and got in and out in less than two minutes. The guard didn't look too happy though. He must of thought I was a very bad guy. I got a local number to call instead of having to call the national 800 number that puts you on hold forever, that is IF you can get through at all.

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 6:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I also had to go to the welfare office. I finally got a parking spot way to the west of the building. I got to the office at about the same time the fire alarm went off. The guard was shepherding people to the west side of the building. I asked him, if this is a case of a false alarm, how long did he think it would take to get back to some semblance of order. He looked at his watch and said that since it was 1 hour before lunchtime that it would be well after 1:00 pm. Now when I first walked in the office and the lobby were full. I went home. LOL

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


John,

By any chance did they move to the Federal Bldg on Franklin? The federal government (GSA) is playing a neat little trick these days. Currently, there are federal operations spread all over the area and renting on the economy from commercial office space operations Lately, GSA has been on a push to move agencies into federal owned buildings when leases expire, citing a cost savings because the government will pay rent to the government. I can't say where Realty puts this income, but I suspect it goes to promoting their LEED development agenda. There is another requirement to place federal buildings in economically depressed areas of a city, in an attempt to revitalize that local economy. This often has a secondary affect of forcing people onto public transportation, due to lack of adequate or safe low cost parking, which the federal government also likes.

roger — September 24, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone have any advice for getting rid of fruit flies? I picked up 30 pounds of peaches this past weekend, and have been processing them for preserves. I saw a few fruit flies on Sunday while peeling, but didn't think much of it. Now they're all over my kitchen. I must have spent 2 hours last night trying to kill them off, and there's still about a zillion of them.

roger — September 24, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

I mentioned fiscaltiger because that person used to post here, and quit about the time the facebook side came on. FT posted to The Oregonian for a while, but I haven't seen anything for over a year. Fiscaltiger and fiscoltiger (were they the same person?) used to have a fixation on goldie. Perhaps one of the earlier incarnations of our resident anarchist?

Tim,

I tend to stay out of those arguments. Goldie and Nails have a long history of squabbling, and there were some pretty ugly wars between her and Alleycat. And I suppose that sooner or later Elisi will also get involved. Anyhow, old girl can hold her own quite well.

Hawkeye,

Don't forget - Before you went on vacation, we made HC's list of most disreputable characters.

roger — September 24, 2013 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, no they rent a piece of the building at 805 Broadway. Nice newer shiny building with a bank and other renters. It occurred to me after writing about their move that the move might be because C-Trans plan for Fourth Plain BRT. HA

You are probably right about locations though. Most people who get SS can't possibly be happy about it though. I know that if I drive somewhere it costs me substantially less than taking public transportation. But if the likes of Jim and Mike get their way that will change by raising fees and taxes. All for the bright new shiny choo choos. Just thinking about it makes my butt hurt again.

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You know it's funny that this forum is called the basement. Why? We have much better conversations. We take the gloves off on almost all of the topics. It seems to me we are better educated and go in depth on local and national news items. Sure, we have some bickering (so does FB) but for the most part we are head and shoulders above the FB side. I say re-brand ourselves to reflect that we are truly the penthouse.

And we don't need special keys or cards to get in. Like having to join FB just to comment on a particular subject or news article.

I wrote in the comments on the new layout for The Columbian that I hope they would get a program that allows for both FB and the forum crowd. I also asked if they would allow users to arrange the comments from last to first. And to allow us to rate a particular comment good OR bad.

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I mean 'first to last.'

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 23, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. and 7:20 pm.

Although the idiocy of one group of politicians is stalling the inevitable, it takes two to tango and neither side is willing to budge. At least, that's how I perceive the problem with politicians these days.

I hear ya about the chilly air. I was tempted to fire up the wood stove but held off. My little dog was chilled, so I got extra blankets out for her and held her close to me to warm her up. Looks like better weather is coming on Thursday (fingers crossed).

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 23, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

You know the drama queen comment wasn't directed at you, right?

Sorry to hear the weather was so bad for your cruise. It's such a beautiful region to visit. Maybe this is signs of an early winter this year. The snow levels are down around 4000 in some regions of the Cascades.

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger about the fruit flies. We did a bunch of canning also. We found if you take a jigger of vinegar and add a squirt of dish soap to it the little bastards will go right into it. We put a couple of them out in the kitchen and overnight we got about 50 in each jigger.

timerick — September 24, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 23, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.

Thanks for recognizing the truth.

It sucks that your car was broken into. Rarely do the police come to take a report any more...unless it was multiple vehicles hit at the same time or a vehicle owner takes the law into their own hands. I guess there's just not enough money in the budget for police to do their jobs to the extent they were trained to do, including car break ins.

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


This is the basement. We roll with the punches...we don't go call mommy for a heated debate, a statement a metaphore, not even if someone farts....<- lol you know I call and tell my mom when someone farts. I've also called and told her when we lit one too. Yup it is a basement but the stench ain't me in here.

mxfun118 — September 24, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Tim, I like your idea about the fruit flies. They don't take to the fly tape, so now it's time to get the vinegar and soap out. I see they've tried to get in the fridge, too. Thanks for sharing with roger and the rest of us about a proven cure!!!

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyc, when I spoke with Mark Gross of ODOT, they said the bridge is not compatible for light rail. They would have to do a complete redesign and have decided it's not in their budget. Of course, that was a couple of years ago and ODOT as well as Oregon's governor are as fickle as a farm girl at a barn dance.

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Fruit flies: the produce guy at Safeway told me they use the vinegar-and-dishsoap trick, hidden in their bins, as timerick describes. I have used it and it works well.

Tolling: if this CRC juggernaut ever gets launched, you can better believe that I 205 will be tolled, too. Maybe not at first, but it will happen.

Mountain View HS "420 gate" kids: I watched a woman who lives near there testify about the after-school problems associated with that gathering place last night at Vancouver City Council. She called the students "feral children" literally through clenched teeth and a forced smile. With that attitude, the students will absolutely make sure they live up to her expectations. Way to promote good will and realistic solutions. I am not saying that there is no problem, but why throw gas on the flames?

We are fortunate to live near Vancouver School of the Arts and Academics. The students after school gather near my home, waiting for their parents. Not one problem, even from the students who live in the neighborhood and walk home and we have been here for 10 years. Neighbors get to know the kids by name. We engage them in friendly conversations, offer them shelter in the rain. We paired with them recently on re-painting our street mural in front of the school. They add to the community and they know they are welcome.

David Madore's involvement in Vancouver City politics: He is worried. He is pulling out all the stops. Why is he not focusing on Camas (his own home) or Washougal? Because the stakes are much higher in Vancouver and his favorites are not favored here. It is only going to get uglier as the election gets closer.

manthou — September 24, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 24, 2013 at 8:11 a.m

It doesn't matter where you live, if certain kids gets a mind to create trouble they will.

We have lived here in this home for 35 yrs. Over those years we have had very few problems with kids. Nothing bad, a few TP's when our own kids were in school, a few plants in the front yard pulled up..but nothing really bad until...sometime between midnight of the 14th of this month and sunrise of the 15th someone (kids we suspect that we heard in the park across from our home) threw car paint, silver metallic all over the passenger side, tail gate, bumper, side mirror and lights of my husbands pick-up.
Police report made, even found the can of paint used, thrown in the park near the playground equipment. "Nothing will be done about it, no money in the budget" we were told. No fingerprints will be collected "lab has better things to do".
So our insurance company is stuck with the over $2,000 bill to fix the pick-up.
Nothing we have done or said to anyone to have had this happen. We bite our tongues when kids from Mt View and EHS park and eat their lunch and leave trash in the street or park. We and neighbors just go pick it up. We don't bother them when they group up at the park to talk or do whatever they do there. We leave them alone.

So I feel for those near "420 gate" seems if you leave them alone the activity gets worse.

ELISI — September 24, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Putting lite rail on the Glenn Jackson Bridge has been raised numerous times, (sorry to pop your bubble there HC). I think it was Jack Burkman on FB who once said that while the bridge would support the rail, it wasn’t wide enough without taking a traffic lane or shoulder off of the bridge. Something like that. Actually, Hawkeye (or someone like him on FB) once suggested building a raised platform down the center.

[http://www.thereflector.com/opinion/article_47656ac8-a9e3-11e1-807e-001a4bcf887a.html][1]

[http://fredglickdesign.com/transportation/glenn-jackson-bridge-i-205-high-capacity-transit-study][2]

[1]: http://www.thereflector.com/opinion/article_47656ac8-a9e3-11e1-807e-001a4bcf887a.html
[2]: http://fredglickdesign.com/transportation/glenn-jackson-bridge-i-205-high-capacity-transit-study

-----------------------------------------------------------

About the fruit flies. You may also try a little fruit juice or apple slice (they seem to like moldy a little better) in a cup overnight. Snap a lid on all quick like in the morning, and take them outside.

kn_dalai — September 24, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm part of the Madore crowd HC. Actually, I don't know what Madore's idea is about lite rail in east county. but afaic; no lite rail in Clark County.

kn_dalai — September 24, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai is correct; the I205 option has been discussed in depth, and discarded by the powers that be. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than what the CRC planned, but it didn't support the Vancouver revitalization project.

There are conflicting stories on whether Glenn Jackson was built to hold light rail, but to fit it on now would require taking away the center bike lane and a lane of traffic in each direction. The raised platform idea would have required a reinforcement project that would possibly have been expensive, but I haven't found where anyone actually did a cost analysis. There are two major problems with the plan, though. One is a safety issue. Glenn Jackson gets buffeted pretty heavily with the gorge winds, and can ice over in the winter. Light rail service would be impeded quite often in the winter; they shut down occasionally elsewhere, but it would be commonplace there. Second problem is that when Metro/TriMet took all those federal dollars to build the PDX spur, they cut off the idea of extending the Red line up the I205 corridor. There's no place to put a new track down to Parkrose or Gateway; Cascade Station Mall took that space.

roger — September 24, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: My kids were always involved with sports, music, and after school clubs. When school got out, they went right to another activity. I am sure that scenario is familiar to you, as well. Not all kids are so engaged, unfortunately.

I was not advocating for a "do nothing" approach, just commenting that, when you call these kids "feral", they will live up to that self-fulfilling prophecy. I know that the police try to engage them in a friendly way when they interact. In loco parentis, sadly.

So sorry to hear about your paint bombing. It is one reason Portland mandates spray paint be locked up. It is a sad inconvenience for those who are responsible.

manthou — September 24, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


She called the students "feral children" literally through clenched teeth and a forced smile.

manthou — September 24, 2013 at 8:11 a.m

Nice LTTE today about the '420 gate' kids, and the Columbian article about them on Sept. 18th. Sorry, the'feral children' phrase is over the top even if the complaint seems legimate. Easy to alienate an audience based simply on the choices of one adjective vs. another.

jacjak — September 24, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, it wasn't spray paint, it was actual paint used to paint cars. Nice color of metallic sliver, so no doubt they got it from their own home. Car paint is almost impossible to get off.
I'm leaving in a few to go pick up the truck from the auto body shop.
I'll find then if they had to re-paint the whole side and re-do the pin-striping and tailgate. I do know they had to re-place the emblem, both tail lights, side mirror (which is the large motorized kind), bumper (it has a rubber topping on it for stepping), plastic around and seals of both windows and the 2 doors on the passenger side..

We first thought they did it cause husband has the Huskies decals in his back window, but if that was the case they would have thrown the paint over the back window. We have no idea why or who did this.

I understand about the activities kids are in. Mine played in softball, basketball, track, martial arts, and music plus activities at church. We kept our 2 kids so busy they were too tired to get into too much mischief.

ELISI — September 24, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A while back our neighborhood had a plague of vandalisms that just started one day. The neighbors houses were 'egged' numerous times. Mailboxes were knocked over. While parked in the driveway our car had all four tires slashed. The police called it a 'slash & bash'. They said slashed tires were most common with sports cars, and ours was a Camero, but they could see that changing... random destruction more and more seemed to be the motivator. With our insurance deductible a insurance claim was basically a wash. Then, suddenly it all stopped. In the last 3 years there's been one incidence of tagging, and we found at a neighborhood meeting the police caught the tagger. So, did the culprits grow up, head off to college, move away?

But, the 'feral children' phrase is a phrase I've seen before in rants about how government is destroying family, etc. And, I don't care for anything much that seeks to intentionally diminish or divide us through political hyperbole.

jacjak — September 24, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That was one of your best post's I have seen latly HC.

timerick — September 24, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC-

Whats destroying the Family is that we have more of both parents working, which means less involvement with the kids. We have more single parent families, we have more kids not being engaged in productive activities... we just plain have more Parents who are doing less parenting....The economy is probably the least of whats destroying the family...Over the last 20 years I've noticed a huge decline in just plain Civility and respect from kids in general. You talk about a car being broken into or painted, that wasn't happening as much 25-30 years ago. But now we have this current crop of Graffiti children that are being raised by parents who need parenting themselves ... It's amazing watching there parenting skills sometimes..

vanwadreamer — September 24, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 24, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.

Here are the usual suspects:

Fixed rails that can’t be moved. Autos and buses have flexibility, LRT doesn’t.

Initial cost and disruption of the community during construction.

Another taxpayer subsidy in perpetuity, and look at the MAX debt as it is already.

What’s MAX done to relieve congestion elsewhere, like 26 and 84?

Aside from those basics, I really don’t like those rails down the middle of the streets. They’re a distraction to drivers and pedestrians alike. IMO, lite rail changes the character of the area. More cosmopolitan. Not everyone likes that. Which includes the issue of gang bangers and crime. I know the crime issue is debatable, but I believe even considering road rage incidents, most feel safer in their own vehicles for good reason. Especially for the non rush hour times and days. (Somewhere in here is, I think, a good segue into today’s discussion on the 420 gate type issues but also harassment problems, real or perceived).

I’ve seen it suggested that in 30 years or so, the order of the day will be self-driving electric cars. The idea of self-driving autos has actually been around for decades. It sounds like you’re into tech, HC. You likely know more about this than I. It’s only a matter of time. But even if not - no LRT anyway.

Those are my layman’s thoughts on the thing HC, but I’ll add this; no lite rail on the I-5 bridge. Period. Looking at the details of that project, it’s hard to see how it ever could have gotten so far without the insider crowd, so to speak, with their own factional interests really pushing for something to the great detriment of most. If a good case can be made for LRT over a new bridge, then It’s worth listening to, but they’ve got to really address the issues of cost, crime and the utility of the thing.

(I do like the idea of roller rail:) but they’d have to run it up along I-5, and keep it off the streets and address the other issues of efficacy, which ain't goin' to happen).

kn_dalai — September 24, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 24, 2013 at 8:07 a.m.

You forgive me? Who was asking you for forgiveness? I certainly wasn't. The only one I go to for forgiveness when applicable is my Heavenly Father. I am not afraid to speak my mind. I live with a clear conscience. How 'bout you?

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's a lot more than lack of parenting time -

In my mind, one of the biggest problems is that our children have been raised to believe they have rights (ones that extend beyond the basic care ones). And we as parents reinforce that belief.

When most of us here were young, if an adult authority figure (teacher, police officer, or even next door neighbor) told our parents we were doing something wrong, there was no debating the issue - we got the riot act. Nowadays, we listen to our kids and their alibis, and sometimes take their side. This breeds disrespect for adults and authority. I'm sure our parents were smart enough to know that those people weren't always right, and that we weren't always wrong, but they just might have recognized the greater need. And I also know for a fact (I found out years later) that my father didn't always accept what he was told. He read me the riot act, but also had a few strong words with the adult involved and what he would tolerate out of that person. It was adult business, and the children weren't supposed to have their noses in the middle of it.

roger — September 24, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 24, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.

Yes, I did recommend putting it on a raised rail over the middle of the 205 bridge. I believe a decent engineer could design that retrofit with no trouble. Of course it would be a long ride to Portland City center but so will the trip down I-5 and thru North Portland with all it's stops. Frankly, I can't imagine either unless you've got plenty of time in the morning and evening. And then have to fight the traffic at Clark College. What a joke. The only way I see this working is with a dedicated track, non-stop to City Center from Clark County. NOT Clark college but up I-5 to at least Salmon Creek with several stops between the bridge and Salmon Creek. Anything else is going to be a total bust.

hawkeye — September 24, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 24, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Amen to that! Might I add that it's also a lack of parenting skills.

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 24, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Oh Hell, we lost control when they took away spanking.

Time out???? What a crock. When a kid is young, you can't reason with them, oh sure, you can talk until you are blue in the face but a quick pat on the butt will get your point across much faster and they will remember it much longer.

hawkeye — September 24, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai...

I've noticed the I-84 line is pretty full most weekdays, so I do see some use for loo rail in Portland. You can imagine the traffic issues if there wasn't loo along I-84. Is that what we want OR need for Clark County? In my book, I say no. The need is lacking. Just looking at C-Tran's buses is a good indication of that.

As you say though, it's a fixed rail and is quite limited in servicing the people. With elimination of bus routes, it increases the limitations of the loo and decreases the usefulness at the increased costs year after year after year? I also believe that loo rail is the life blood of cluster development, aiding elite developers much to the detriment of much-needed tilth for farmland in order to sustain human life.

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 24, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

1 Samuel 2:3

goldenoldie — September 24, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK. I may have been wrong. If this much fun can happen on a bus; just think of how much fun can happen on lite rail. It certainly can bring people together with a sense of camaraderie:)

[Smiles all around!][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr82dZ...

kn_dalai — September 24, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai that did bring a chuckle out of me.Can't wait to take the ride.

timerick — September 24, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


KN; my favorite StarTrek movie with the old crew! One of the best scenes.

A Spock on Light Rail might do the trick. Half th epeople out cold.

A pleasant ride.

luvithere — September 24, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If the rails would freeze up on LOO-RAIL on I-205 what's to prevent them from freezing up on a I-5 crossing? The main problem would be trucks. On I-205, when the wind blows pretty good the signs tell trucks to use the inside lanes in case of a blow over. Hell, my van almost went over a couple of times and you could see the drivers behind me backing off. You would have to elevate the tracks over fifteen feet to keep clear. Plus you would need two tracks to keep the LOO rollin'.

If the engineers use the sandwich design we all see in those pretty little pamphlets then the weather will play a big part in the running of the LOO-RAIL across to downtown. The wind is funneled down by the narrowing of the river. Ask the boat people who live on the river. They'll tell you. It gets freaking cold down there.

See ya all in the mornin'.

Oh one more thing. Instead of letting the fruit flies out side flush em.

JohnCasey — September 24, 2013 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Early to bed, early to rise.......

Twitter and some professions: Bad combo.

I might have lost my job, or faced significant discipline, if I had tweeted about my students or parents or anyone else like some NFL players are doing now.

What about reporters? Some of the tweets I read from them are over-the-top in disrespect.

Yes, they have free speech rights, but a little restraint might be in order. It demeans the person and diminishes the profession, in my opinion, to see athletes, reporters, executives, teachers, whomever engaging in cheap shots, name-calling, and poking fun of others for their physical flaws or ideas.

Problem is: we are all getting de-sensitized to it and cross the line, too. I know I am.

Aljazeera America has addressed this subject with NFL players:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/23/penalty-or-free-speechnflteamsstruggletopoliceplayersontwitter.html

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 5:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


All a part of our cultural warfare, manthou. The upper echelons of the pro sports leagues have been attempting to have their players be positive role models for years - it hasn't worked. Charles Barkley was correct when he said he shouldn't be the role model - it should be parents, teachers, and others who actually do something useful with their lives. But when we heap accolades on the high school football star, and virtually ignore the accomplishments of the Eagle Scout or the class valedictorian, well - we're our own worst enemy. I could go further with our own generation and our idolization of our Morrsions, Joplins, et.al., and the logical progression to the groups of today, but I'm late for work.

roger — September 25, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, I don't think it will be long before the NFL has rules in place to take care of this. Either that or these people will be seen for what they are, thugs and idiots.

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye and roger: I guess anyone who chooses to exercise their free speech rights via social media should consider how what they write reflects on them as a human being.

Public figures and reporters carry a lot of gravitas, whether they have earned it or not. What they say can do great harm, even if it is their opinion. If their opinion is not fact-based, it has the power to influence others in a very negative way.

Popular Science is cutting off all public comment on new articles published, because it is bad for science. Read why:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: After The Columbian ran a couple of articles that documented a political relationship between Kelly Hinton and Ann Rivers, she dropped him like a hot potato. Ouch.

I like many things about Ann Rivers, not the least of which is her obvious intellect.

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: Here ya' go:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/au...

See "Related Stories" on the left side margin for the previous articles.

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Queue the Charlie Brown Video again!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hUL...

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Even hateful, offensive speech is protected speech. Just use it as an information gift: what someone writes publicly and unashamedly tells you a lot about that person.

I have stopped using some businesses because of the social media posts of its owner.

Freedom to express oneself means freedom to find another service/product provider who is a bit more measured with their rhetoric. Why give money and attention to someone who offends?

It is a losing proposition to think anyone is going to "shame" anyone into civility and compliance.

Vote with your wallet. Vote with your attention. If someone does not have an audience or a market, you remove their power. They get bored or go out of business and move on.

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holycrapola, if you assume anyone you are against has engaged in criminal wrongdoing, you haven't a case. All you're doing is polluting the minds of others in your attempts to manipulate their minds. If you have hard evidence proving the person or persons have broken the law or violated ethics, then by all means...step up to the plate and throw your hat into the ring to press charges against them.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""You see this Lew Waters and Hinton guys talking ad nauseum against everything that does not fit their agenda of putting the brakes on development and progress. They want their dorm town intact with their churches and cul d sacs, the strip malls, all that obsolete model of minimum wage jobs instead of focusing on generating good paying value added jobs. They want to pollute this town exporting or shipping out dirty oil and coal so our ocean life dies and we die as a result of pollution. These predators want it all and now, the hell with the rest and the future generations."""

Okay Mr. High and Mighty, why don't you explain to the world just what type of jobs are needed here in Clark County (and be specific this time...no generalizations)? If it's building those iconic structures of Dubai again...well, you're just feeding the elitists. You know that though, right???

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It is MY opinion that the people who speak of how wrong a political group is for trying to bring more jobs to our county...haven't any clue as to what types of jobs our county is lacking and needs. Showing absolute support for government services to help a disabled economy is one thing, but expecting the people to continue to live off government continuously without any concrete solutions as an answer is not. Bringing in temporary jobs such as with the crossing project is not a solution. It's a temporary Band-Aid fix which will only end in more financial destitution for the entire county...in order to help a select few, including those tied with financial investments in the crossing project itself..

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ohhh my God...someone likes to shoot guns. That automatically makes them crazeeeeeeee, now!!! Guess somebody better tell the Olympic Committee!!!

You ever hear of the Pentathlon??? It includes target practicing. It's a SPORT! Just like archery is a sport.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.

You didn't answer my question, holymoley. In response to your non answer, tell me ONE product that isn't made from raw products. When is the last time you were on an assembly line...or have you ever been on one?

I'm surprised you didn't try to answer with something like...Clean Coal Initiatives for Business Start Ups. You know...producing a cleaner energy production with coal which wouldn't pollute. Instead, you came up with...well...generalizations once again.

Still waitin' for your answer!

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.

Twistin' my words to benefit your agenda again, eh???

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

So you're making a correlation with Republicans and Guns, that it's only right wingers who possess weapons? You think there's nobody from the other side of the coin without guns, who would never target practice?

If you are...you're pretty ignorant yourself.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

It's gotta come from somewhere, holyc. Portland and Vancouver are international ports...so rather than complain about it, be proactive and find a solution. There's a job right there in itself! If not in cleaner air emission equipment for coal heat, then why not in design of hopper cars for the coal to be delivered to the port? You think if Vancouver doesn't ship out the coal, that another state won't???

Talk about ignorance.

Would I ever heat my home with coal? Absolutely not. But by cutting out coal, you're also cutting out jobs in Wyoming, Montana, Pennsylvania and several other states. What will you do for those people when they lose their jobs? Oh wait! It's not your problem, right???

Riiiiiight!

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Irrelevant to YOUR agenda; not necessarily irrelevant to the overall picture, holey.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah holyunderwear, saying there is NO clean coal is a defeatist attitude. All it takes in ingenuity and someone who has the knowledge in construction of such equipment...and there you have it!!!

Do you think hydroelectric energy is clean energy and wind energy isn't detrimental to nature???

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

http://www.fort.usgs.gov/BatsWindmills/

-AND-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2013/09/22/wind-energy-gets-away-with-murder/

By the way...your motor scooter...does it run on clean energy biofuels or does it run on batteries???

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am quoting my son..he says..

"Preferably, a combined cycle gas plant is much better than any coal plant as far as emission goes, but coal is a decent stop gap until better technologies mature and are viable."

He also says go ahead and fillet him on this, he doesn't care, he is looking at this as an engineering student. Look at things as realism's, sure alternative technologies are great, but until they mature they can not be relied upon.

ELISI — September 25, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Case point..they built all those windmills, bought them, shipped them in, installed them, pay the farmers to have them on their properties.

Now, most are inactive due to the fact we have an over abundance of electricity. Wasted money on over buying, installing and paying the farmers for use of their land.

ELISI — September 25, 2013 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like someone has low blood sugar (in attack mode) again, today.

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 12:08 p.m.

Prepping for the end of the world? Where do you get that BS, holeyunderwear? I prepare for winter at best. I prepare for camping and hunting trips. I prepare for traveling. Yer makin' yer stories agin' city boy! You're the one saying you'll jump into your bathtub...er, sailboat when the "S" hits the fan, not me.

I didn't say I supported coal exports from Vancouver. I'd much rather avoid it if I could but if Portland gets their way, it'll still come through our area whether we like it or not. It is now...I don't see it being stopped. I speak about the FACT that big business talks and if they're going to do it, they're going to do it. Yes, it'll bring more jobs...most people would refuse, but it would be jobs. So tell me...how can you or me stop coal mining production and exportation, oh Wise(?) one?

I'm still waiting for your list of jobs, holeyunderwear.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

Can't get it from the people of Washington State so they're beginning to steal' from their own party!

Oops...did I really say that???
Yup! I did!

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

Hmm...maybe Madore's idea of the floodgates opening up was a normal recovery process. We're still under 2008's employment figures. I see in the article, they're claiming that some of the drop in employment was due to retirement. I'd believe that...FORCED retirement at that!

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 1:46 p.m

I don't know if I can agree with you on that one, McCain has a hard time getting out the words. It's pretty hard to "bitch slap" when you can't get it out.

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As a part time Oregon coast resident, I felt obliged to write Governor Kitzhaber a couple of months ago. Just got his reply today. It is no doubt a form letter that he sent to those against and those in favor of Oregon's attempt to finish the deal.

Dear Ms. XXXXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Interstate 5 bridge replacement.

This five-mile segment is critical to the health of our region’s economy, and replacing the bridge will increase safety, reduce congestion, and improve the transport of goods to markets across the state and around the world.

While I am disappointed that our legislative partners in the Washington State Senate failed to address these issues, the need for a new bridge persists. Before walking away from the large investment that has already made in this project, we are examining how funding from Oregon could improve safety and reduce congestion on this critical corridor.

I will continue working with Oregon legislators and our partners in Washington to find a solution to this serious problem.

Sincerely,

John Kitzhaber

manthou — September 25, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

goldenoldie — September 25, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

Simultaneous multiple postgasms, no wonder they're wound up.

Get a room guys!

nailingit — September 25, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Things to chew on this evening...

The Fed's 'hidden agenda' behind money-printing

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101062461?__source=xfinity|mod∥=xfinity

Also google Cloward Piven and read up on it..very interesting..

ELISI — September 25, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone notice the lines for turning from mill plain onto 137th from westbound?!

mxfun118 — September 25, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mxfun118 — September 25, 2013 at 6:19 p.m

Sorry, I don't go that way but has anyone noticed the lines from 205 Northbound to SR 500 East? What were they thinking???

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


After catching up on today's commentary - a song by Styx came to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ARm9rpdKg

roger — September 25, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mxfun118 — September 25, 2013 at 6:19 p.m

Haven't noticed yet, but will be out that way tomorrow. I know they have been working there.

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 6:46 p.m

Yeah I saw what they did...makes absolutely no sense! People are confused when they approach the area and it causing traffic to bunch up. Wonder how many rear enders it has caused.

ELISI — September 25, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

It's definitely going to take some learning. People who get onto 500 East are going to have to get in line with the Gher Road/112th Ave crowd. But it does make sense. Most of the traffic goes west, and people kept jumping from the west bound lane to the east and then back, to get past the slowpokes.

The same change was made on I84 West going to I5. North was cut to one lane, and I've seen a couple of accidents where people slam into other cars because they were so used to two lanes north and have to make that last minute cut.

roger — September 25, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 25, 2013 at 7:36 p.m.

Well it surprised the hell out of me the other day. Seems like they could have posted a warning sign or something. You know, like ***WATCH OUT, WE SCREWED UP THE LINES!***

hawkeye — September 25, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. "Nobody is going to sign to Obama care if they don't have insurance and they are young. $400 a month they don't have for sdomething they don't see unless they are sick."

Well, hallelujah. I did some checking. $16,000 seems to be the cutoff point for a single person to get WA State Medicaid. The cost of a bronze plan with high deductibles and cost shares, and perhaps two doctor visits a year before the deductible gets applied, is going to cost a 30 year old male around $150 per month. That 30 year old is probably sharing an apartment with a couple of buddies, but he's got a life style to maintain and partying is a high priority. Screw health insurance.

roger — September 25, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

They've opened the new northbound lanes on Airport Way, so I've been coming home that way. A few days back there was a stupid sign about halfway up the damned bridge saying it was going to be closed for work. Seems like everyone had to slow to about 40 so they could read it.

And then this morning there was the lady in her little Volvo wagon doing 50 in the middle lane of the freeway at 0645 - that's when rush hour is just starting to ramp up. And then about two minutes later some guy in his Toyota whatever with the oversized muffler held on with baling wire is playing games bouncing back and forth between lanes.

There are a whole lot of people who are lucky I'm not in charge of saying who gets to drive. I'd take care of the overcrowding problem on the highway - licenses would get revoked left and right.

roger — September 25, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Lions & tigers & bears, oh my!

///What Will You Pay For Obamacare? Depends On Where You Live (MAP)///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/obamacare-map-_n_3990491.html

///Obamacare is getting really good local coverage///

A week before Americans without health insurance can begin signing up for government-run pools, the Department of Health and Human Services rolled out new data showing just how much they would have to pay (Check out what our colleagues over at WonkBlog had to say about the new report here).

The Drudge Report and the Washington Examiner spotlighted bad news: Premiums are about to spike for residents in Tennessee and Texas.

But around the country, local papers loved the news. Check out the front pages in Florida, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia and Pennsylvania, where the coverage bordered on glowing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/25/obamacare-is-getting-really-good-local-coverage/

nailingit — September 25, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Coincidence?

Just in time to precede the C-Tran Board meeting Thursday, Oregon will be closing the Northbound lanes of the Interstate Bridge from 5:30 am to 2:00 pm. Take I 205 instead, they advise.

Hmmmmm. They usually do this maintenance overnight.

Reminds me of what school districts do when they want parents to stand to attention and salute: they cut bus service or after school programs right before a levy. Inconvenience the peasants where it hurts the most.

No matter where you stand on the new bridge issue, I wonder how many residents let this ploy fly far over their heads?

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 5:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Short video of Governor Kitzhaber. He talks about the GMO rider on the "grand bargain" bill for the special session Monday.

He also discusses the CRC project. The Feds still want to fund it, but will Washington cooperate? Kitz wants public input sessions. It is not an Oregon only:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/oregon_gov_john_kitzhaber_diss.html#incart_m-rpt-2

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Thanks. I read the article and the possibility that the timing is deliberate went completely over my head. I've gone back to the article and corrected that oversight.

Tonight should prove interesting. The last page of that packet Jeff Hamm presented was a resolution that addresses the Board policy that any funding measure must go to a vote. The wording is screwy - "NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that it shall be the policy of the C-TRAN Board to uphold these adopted resolutions, policies, and commitments made to C-TRAN voters by confirming that any means chosen to finance operations of the HCT component of the CRC project shall be submitted to impacted C-TRAN voters for approval and C-TRAN shall not divert any existing revenues to fund CRC LRT operations and maintenance costs."

Those words "impacted C-Tran voters" opens the door for the previously recommended reduced voting district.

The way I see it, they HAVE to have a vote because it's their policy. To stop this vote would take a new resolution, which I believe would fail - either by majority vote, or by County veto. (This presumes Steve Stuart remains consistent with his previous position on the topic.) So, it follows that the Vancouver City Council bloc should submit a resolution asking for the reduced "downtown" vote. Hopefully this is also shot down. Everyone will be affected by this decision, as it will help kick the door open for the Oregon plan (if passed).

And if this is on the ballot, and assuming Oregon doesn't turn off Kitz's new bridge plan, then expect this C-Tran initiative to overshadow everything else on November 5.

roger — September 26, 2013 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well - Almost everything else. I suspect Mayor Tim's reelection will also be a bit heated.

roger — September 26, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 25, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.

Bleaghhhh!!!!

POSTGASM again??? Nails, you really should speak to someone about your problem... ;P

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I haven't taken the exit at SR 500 yet. My best bet is to avoid it altogether and take the Padden exit instead.

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 26, 2013 at 5:56 a.m.

They'll find a way to change the rules and step all over us if some of them could have their way.

...

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 5:19 a.m.

It's no coincidence. They know exactly what they're doing. It'll make for a great video presentation to support Kitzrobber's plan.

One question...what makes ol' Kitzy think a new bridge with loo rail on it will be void of improvements and maintenance???

I'm not looking forward to the day the tolling begins and a necessitated trip to Portland for me arises. Guess I'll plan well ahead of time to get everything done IF it happens.

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome to all my friends here, especially those who drift but come back. We miss you. I've been working hard, to the point where I smell a little. Be back. Need a shower.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — September 26, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We'll plug our noses, Lou.

Hey, any idea when the new C's format will be permanent??? I'm sure you've most likely received a lot of feedback already.

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The dark cloud of 2010 is starting to dissipate. High winds and blowhards are moving this front back to the South. Time for some sunshine.

Baggers are keeping it classy. Ya gotta love it. Anyone from the basement make a call???

///Peter King: ‘Vile’ phone calls by Ted Cruz allies///

Rep. Peter King, who has pulled no punches in criticizing Ted Cruz, said Thursday that supporters of the Texas senator have been bombarding his office with “vile” phone calls.

The New York Republican has called Cruz a fraud for his calls to defund Obamacare, and said the senator’s campaign this summer to get the House to pass a government funding bill that defunds the health care law led to some offensive phone calls to King’s office.

“The vehemence of the phone calls coming into the office. I don’t care, people can call me whatever they want … I haven’t heard such vile, profane, obscene language,” King said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Thursday.

King said while the majority of Cruz fans are “good people,” he’s concerned about what sentiments Cruz has preyed on. While he doesn’t know if Republicans can reach Cruz, they should try to “heal tensions” with his supporters, he said.

“I’m not saying Ted Cruz is responsible for all his supporters, but he has tapped into a dark strain here in the American political psyche here, and again, the most obscene, profane stuff you can imagine all from people who say they support the Constitution,” King said. “I think what we have to do is reach out to his people and let them know that they’re following a false leader here.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/peter-king-ted-cruz-phone-calls-97396.html#ixzz2g1EgKWtD

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — September 26, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

Strange post of the week award.

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Our President says to young people, don't worry you'll be able to buy Health Insurance through the exchanges for about the average monthly cell phone bill.. Obviously Obama doesn't know that number .. It's 47 bucks BTW... He just continues to spew out "MISS IMFORMATION" ...

Obama to America 2008 as candidate Obama.. I will lower the cost of health insurance by $2500 in my first term...For the average family of 4. Well once this Obamacare becomes law and it will the average family of 4 will see there Ins premiums raise by about $7500 a yr.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-official-obamacare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-four/

WSJ gives Obama 3 Pinocchio’s... Ouchy...

vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.

You do know these numbers are literally guess work. (word used from article)

And you do know this calculus, as well as the end result was produced in 2007.

A great pick though. It's indicative of the current desperation and confusion the right has embraced. Medicare and Social Security went through similar misconceptions and lies when they were introduced.

Also a great example of middle class conservatives cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Rush in, Rush out. A party and a people caught up in the ravings of a junkie flim flam man.

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 25, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.

holycrapola — September 26, 2013 at 10:30 a.m.

Two posts I absolutely agree with! It must be a sign of the end times. :)

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

Keep up the good fight..Nice too see your so opned minded... So you you think Obama really thinks a 27yr old can buy health Insurance for $47 a month. COME ON MAN... Your sharper than one of my shovels in my garage arn't cha... You just have to get away from Mr Hartman...Well not to ruin my lunch anymore by this Blistfull comentary I must put my game face back on and get to real productive work... I just want you to know I'll be there to help you if you need it Nail.. Call me a brother in arms..

Who is that Lou guy anyway.. Did he really write what I thought he did... Geez... Where did he earn is literary prose from.... Give us some real insight as to what were talking about here now in the basement LOU>>It's enough I have to read your column every week..

vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Also google Cloward Piven and read up on it..very interesting.."

ELISI — September 25, 2013 at 5:38 p.m.

About as interesting as a Glenn beck rerun. Entertaining though.

///The Mad Tea Party///

How Glenn Beck & Co. trumped up a vast left-wing conspiracy: the "Cloward-Piven strategy."

According to David Horowitz, who apparently coined the expression, Cloward-Piven is "the strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis." Named after sociologists and antipoverty and voting rights activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, who first elucidated it in a May 2, 1966, article for The Nation called "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty," the Cloward-Piven strategy, in Horowitz's words, "seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse." Like a fun-house-mirror version of Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine theory, the Cloward-Piven strategy dictates that the left will exploit that crisis to push through unpopular, socialist policies in a totalitarian manner. - See more at: http://www.thenation.com/article/mad-tea-party#sthash.yNuKldWw.dpuf

..

Nevertheless--history and facts be damned--it is Horowitz's caricature of Cloward-Piven that is now the Rosetta stone of American politics for the tea party's self-styled intellectuals. Glenn Beck has brought up Cloward and Piven on at least twenty-eight episodes of his show over the past year. Beck is sometimes aided by a blackboard on which he has diagramed something called "The Tree of Revolution," which links Che Guevara, SEIU and ACORN's Wade Rathke to Saul Alinsky, the Sierra Club's Carl Pope, Bill Ayers and, perhaps most improbably, to White House senior adviser Valerie Jarrett. In the center of the tree's arching trunk, above SDS and Woodrow Wilson (!?) but below Barack Obama, who adorns the tree's crown, Beck has scrawled "Cloward & Piven."

- See more at: http://www.thenation.com/article/mad-tea-party#sthash.yNuKldWw.dpuf

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.

I see you as our very own Michele Bachman. But not as funny! :))

///Obama Makes Fun Of Republicans' Ridiculous Claims About Obamacare///

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama on Thursday poked fun at Republicans for their dire predictions about what will happen once his signature health care law is fully implemented.

During remarks at an event in Maryland, Obama laughed as he ran through Republicans' various warnings -- and false claims they have made -- about the effects of the Affordable Care Act.

One congressman called Obamacare "the most dangerous piece of legislation ever passed," Obama said, visibly amused. "Ever."

He was referring to Rep. John Fleming (R-La.), who made the comment earlier this month.

Other Republicans have warned the law will lead to "Armageddon," he said, and one state representative called it "as destructive to personal and individual liberties as the Fugitive Slave Act."

The latter comment came from New Hampshire state Rep. Bill O’Brien.

"Think about that. Affordable health care is worse than a law that lets slaveowners get their runaway slaves back. I mean, these are quotes," Obama said. "I am not making this stuff up."

Better yet, the president continued, one Republican said the health care law has to be repealed "before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens."

That quote came from Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.).

"I have to say that is from six months ago," Obama said. "I just want to point out that we still have women. We still have children. And we still have senior citizens."

He added, "All of this would be funny if it weren't so crazy."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/obamacare-2013_n_3996384.html

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Republicans Willing To Risk Debt Limit Disaster To Win Concessions///

When Congress allowed the government to reach that point for several months in 2011, it sparked a 2,000-point stock market slide and a downgrade of the United States' credit rating. Economists warn that if the limit is reached again, the consequences will be exponentially worse.

Yet Republicans who are aware of the downsides are pursuing a debt limit strategy anyway.

Asked bluntly if using the limit for leverage risked blowing up the economy, Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) paused for a second and then offered a drawn-out "Yes" that suggested the answer was obvious.

"That's why we're paid the big bucks -- to figure these problems out," Farenthold added.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/debt-limit-republicans_n_3997502.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Andrea Damewood: Clark County will earn $71 million dollars in sales tax revenue if Oregon succeeds in getting the bridge built.

Ca-chiiiing!

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30734-plan_for_oregon_only_columbia_river_crossing_would_give_washington_%2471_million_in_sales_tax.html

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

You didn't answer for Obama.. He really thinks a 27yr old can Buy health ins for what the average cell phone bill is..Oh I know, it's his Kids cell phone bills he's been a jabbering about.. I get it... I bet he has those puppies tapped along with MO... Where's LOU???? I want to here his personal thoughts... We should have a where's LOU blog???

vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:45 p.m.

According to Standard and Poor, the reason they downgraded the credit rating is because the cuts didn't go far enough. The facts totally contradict the entire point of your post.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


["Asked bluntly if using the limit for leverage risked blowing up the economy, Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) paused for a second and then offered a drawn-out "Yes" that suggested the answer was obvious."

"That's why we're paid the big bucks -- to figure these problems out," Farenthold added.]

"The facts totally contradict the entire point of your post."

frobert- Absolutely wrong. The threat of default led to the downgrade.

And the crux of my post was the idiotic irresponsible response from junior Rep Farenthold.

The facts totally contradict the entire point of your response.

Are you happy with your Republican party? Or are they not plunging our economy over a cliff fast enough for you.

Will you vote for Teddy Cruz in '16?

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 1:20 p.m

I knew nothing about Cloward Piven until my son brought it up yesterday in our conversation. Not knowing what the heck he was talking about..so I googled it, and yes it was quite interesting to read it. Could it happen, IMO yeah it sure could, could such happen in my life time, not sure.

Guess my son got the info from one of his class group discussions. The group all agreed that would be one way to get everyone on a equal pay level.

ELISI — September 26, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobro- Did you bother to read the article?

[[More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.]]

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I guess I must be stupid.But does anyone know how the ACA is really going to work.Take a 40 yr. old man and wife no children at home,making 40 grand a year gross.Wife makes 20 grand.Do we know what his monthly premium will be? Or take a single man 35 working part time going to school part time making 25 grand a year.So far all I have heard is nothing but speculation.Do we even know the answers yet?

timerick — September 26, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


More importantly when considering fro's post. Either people don't understand, can't remember, or just want to push the debt Ceiling debate into La La Land for the sake of skewing truth, in order to represent an Ayn Rand ideology/idiocy.

Regardless of motivation, we need to understand some facts. Unfortunately when there is so much white noise happening, the weak and easily influenced fall prey to this type of disinformation.

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You may plug your information into this site:

http://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/

You may call:

1-855-WAFINDER

langenthal — September 26, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick --- My 3 pm post was for you.

langenthal — September 26, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 2:41 p.m

From the S&P; press release:
"The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan
that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of
what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's
medium-term debt dynamics."

Your false claim that somehow if Congress just gives the Administration a "blank check" it would make things better is not supported by the facts. Give up on your liberal propaganda and look at the facts. I am in no way implying that the Republicans have the answers, but cutting costs is necessary. The fist step in stabilizing our spending is to eliminate war, including the war on drugs. The republicans seem to think that "token" cuts to the poor will help, this is as ludicrous as the democrats belief that we can continue to spend without consequence.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick --- If you want to compare with Oregon, you may try this site:

http://www.coveroregon.com/

langenthal — September 26, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick,

Sorry, here is the actual calculator.. open the link and go to the bottom left input your gross annual income for both you and spouse and both 40 yrs old ..about $475 a month...Silver plan 70/30 .....http://www.wahbexchange.org/index.php?cID=472

vanwadreamer — September 26, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Your false claim that somehow if Congress just gives the Administration a "blank check""

Straw man.

"Give up on your liberal propaganda"

Straw man making hay.

"The fist step in stabilizing our spending is to eliminate war..."

Libertarian magic dust. When you find out just how to do that, let God or somebody know, so we don't repeat history.

" ...including the war on drugs."

That's a start.

Voting for Teddy Cruz? (no doubt he'll give GOP VP Nominee Palin a cabinet position)

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jaime H-B has chimed in and written a letter to the C-Tran Board, claiming that there never WAS a Federal deadline.

How come she waited this long to reveal that, if it is true?

I do not believe anyone anymore.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30738-washington_congresswoman_says_columbia_river_crossing_backers_lied_about_federal_deadlines.html

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.

Please read up on the definition of "straw man" fallacy and get back to me, obviously you have no clue what it means.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 3:47 p.m

"Libertarian magic dust. When you find out just how to do that, let God or somebody know, so we don't repeat history."

In all of our current military actions, we are the aggressor, ending them is easy, if we were defending ourselves, ending the war would be harder. Obama's aggressive policy of murdering civilians around the world must end, if we want our country to prosper.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 26, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

LOL! If not anything else fro, you're predictable. You use your straw man argument of "no clue" time after time. :))

I really, really hope these help. I can only think Ayn Rand must have her own version. This is not a hard one, but it does involve reading matters in context (which has been an on going situation in froworld) to apply.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straw%20man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/strawman

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

And last but certainly not least…

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

strawman:

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

"Obama's aggressive policy of murdering civilians around the world must end"

Obama has no such policy. But stating so........

Strawman making hay, eating it, and crapping outside the box.

Enough of your misunderstanding of such an easy term. Your acting out must be a straw man in and of itself. :)

How's Gen?

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 26, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.

My God! What is she wearing? Is that the new GOP Marching In Line BDU's?

Scary.

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal



nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 5:15 p.m.

I did not replace anything, if I had said that liberals do not understand logical fallacies because you do not, that would be a "straw man" fallacy.

Yes, Obama does have a pro war, pro civilian casualty foreign policy, when it comes to killing civilians he is worse than Bush.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The image I was trying to link to above, didn't come out quite right but close enough.

I know I'm preachin' to the choir here frobert, but there's never been any use in engaging nail. Nor others like him. They define phrases and words to their own liking.

Gotta love this paper and pencil thinking by Cloward and Piven. I'd never heard of them before either, but their childlike "I'll have the big ideas, the rest of you just have to find a way to make it work" is definitive of paper and pencil thinking academics and other Leftists. Here's a clever idea: get into your own business, then you all can implement your big ideas. 'Course there's a reason why that doesn't happen.

kn_dalai — September 26, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"""The revised Columbia River Crossing hasn’t yet cleared all the needed hurdles to be considered financially viable, Oregon Treasurer Ted Wheeler said in a letter to state leaders Thursday."""(A quote from Columbian Article "Oregon treasurer: CRC still has work to do")

Well now Mr. Treasurer, State of Oregon, State of Washington, C-Tran, TriMet, Former US Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood, Governors Kitzhaber and Inslee, Rep. Moeller, Sen. Cleveland and anybody else who supports the crossing project in its entirety...

JUST WHAT IN BLUE BLAZES HAVE WE BEEN TELLING YOU??? You tried to pass off a reject design and the people of Clark County and beyond said NO!!!

Good Lord, this is giving me a headache!!!

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Patty Hastings, bless her heart. I was reading her article entitled "Four accidents clog traffic on I-205 northbound" and felt compelled to point out a discrepancy in her article.

The second sentence states "Traffic was backed up for about two hours on I-205 northbound from State Highway 500 to the Glenn Jackson Bridge."

Do you suppose you actually meant "Traffic was backed up for about two hours on I-205 northbound from the Glenn Jackson Bridge to State Route 500."

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 26, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.

Here's the clincher for you, holymacaroni....

I don't like guns. I don't use guns. I know people who use them, but that doesn't mean that I do.

By the way, I liked your "business plan," even though it was based solely on a buyer's market. What about tourism? Data Information systems? Utilities for Greener Energy? Biodiversity projects? and so on and so forth?

goldenoldie — September 26, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


According to Standard and Poor, the reason they downgraded the credit rating is because the cuts didn't go far enough. The facts totally contradict the entire point of your post.
frobert — September 26, 2013 at 2:27 p.m

Standard & Poors tarnished their own reputation during the infamous downgrade. Just too dang friendly with those morgage bond bankers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/standard-poors-puffery_n_3139134.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_r...

jacjak — September 26, 2013 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 26, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.

I am no fan of S&P;, I was just pointing out that the argument that Republicans caused the downgrade by forcing budget cuts is demonstrably false. In fact the downgrade was a result of democrat obstructionism.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Finally! A way to get House republicans to spend some time...doing something...anything...

If they only cared half as much about job creation as they do obstructionism...

(please don't tell them the bulk of ObamaCare is funded through mandatory spending, and that their childish antics won't make much of a difference. It's too entertaining to watch)

They are so confused! No wonder many of their constituents are frustrated and ill informed. Combine that with the talking heads like Rush who tell them how to think, and you end up with...for lack of a better word, stupidity.

///Republican Leaders Don't Have The Votes For Their Own Hostage Plan///

That leaves House Republicans unable to decide whether to try and kill the health care law again via the continuing resolution -- with the money currently funding the government running out Monday -- or put all their chips in the debt measure. There are also Republicans who question the wisdom of taking the debt limit hostage, since the consequences are predicted to be dire.

House leaders said Thursday night that the House would be in session throughout the weekend to deal with the fiscal showdowns.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/debt-limit-republicans_n_3999019.html

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


C-Tran Board: Madore is going to have a sleepless night.

His proposal failed. And C-Tran has been given the green light to forge ahead with contract developments with Tri-Met.

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think he'll really pull out all the stops now to get his "team" elected. His delay tactics aren't working.

langenthal — September 26, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In fact the downgrade was a result of democrat obstructionism.

frobert — September 26, 2013 at 9:09 p.m.

This is why I miss Basil. He would entertain your absurdities all day long and keep you busy. I don't think anyone else cares to engage with such nonsense. knd, although one to say anything to garner favor with those of a like mind, gave you some primo advice.

You guys should be used to yelling into an echo chamber by now. Isolationists are just that, and for good reason.

nailingit — September 26, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal: We all are tired of obstructive tactics, locally and nationally. I love the way meek and mild Bill Ganley at the end slapped the gavel down in the middle of Madore's lecture. 'Bout time. He is not a very assertive Chair.

Meeting adjourned!

The majority will not elect Madore's cronies in Vancouver. The rural areas, well, that's another thing.

manthou — September 26, 2013 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Did you note how Bill Ganley made the observation that the funding in Hamm's estimates wasn't really there? (I forget the exact term he used.) I see two outcomes.

Any funding for the 4th Plain BRT is now extremely tenuous. To meet the LRT O&M; requirements, the plan diverts all of the "rainy day" fund and any savings by eliminating service on the four routes that will now end at Clark College. C-Tran will have to come to the voters for a sales tax increase. This will fail. (And, as a side note, the original plan for the LRT O&M; also included a sales tax increase request in 2020. This is quite a while from now, but things will still be screwed up from the bridge construction, and I suspect we'll still be feeling quite surly about the whole deal.)

So, kill a sales tax, and they'll have to try to declare a Transportation Benefit District. The City or County can do this, and impose an annual $20 tag fee without a vote. Anything more must go to the voters. (Unless that law also gets ignored - a real possibility these days.) On top of what just happened, that fight will be very ugly.

roger — September 27, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My bet is that the USCG has already made their decision. I hope that it will be made so we, the good people of Clark County, will not have to pay concessions to private businesses.

If it is done right it will not lower its operation standards. But in four days we will know. If they let a permit I would want to know on what facts they base it on. One question I would also have is can they duck a FOIA to see if they had any outside influences? It would be interesting to know if any of our local politicians or political activists had anything to do with trying to influence their decision.

Yes I admit it. I'm an idiot when it comes down to understanding our local yokels who think it's perfectly fine to dun the taxpayers for some things that just don't reflect sound fiscal management of our taxes, including jumping into bed with TRI-Met for a choo-choo. We have pointed out ad-nausea the monetary problems along with the logistic issues and still they don't take us seriously. Any first year finance student would say that that this is not the way to handle other peoples money.

But they go blithely forward perhaps unaware of the destruction they wrought. They do seem to be a particularly stupid lot when it comes down to it. They say it's the future. Well the future is going to cost you and I a hell of a lot more money for so little in return.

Now Stuart is in the barrel because he couldn't or wouldn't stand his ground. Me thinks he got bought or so that's the perception he has given to himself.

I got to take a break for MORE coffee.

JohnCasey — September 27, 2013 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 26, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.

Okay, holyguacamole...don't get all excited, here (you neither, nails)...

I am in agreement with you.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


THANK YOU Mayor Leavitt, Steve Stuart, Bart Hansen, Larry Smith and Ron Onslow! Thank you very much for ignoring the will of the taxpayers and stomping on the hearts of Clark County voters! Thank you for allowing me to make the decision to refrain from EVER using C-Tran again with your decision! It may sound like a good deal to you now...but just wait till TriMet gains a foothold in our county...OUR state - NOT theirs. Vancouver and Clark County will NEVER recover, thanks to you with all of TriMet's imposition fees (as I call them). You have just given them a ticket to kill any and all possibilities of Clark County ever recovering from the Great Recession (Depression for our community).

Just remember this you BASTARDS...I WAS one of the regular riders! One down...how many others?

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.

Holeyfroley...show me ONE...JUST ONE 25-year growth plan that Clark County has ever gotten right.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


To anybody who is proud of what these morons at C-Tran have done...you are fools. C-Tran has just stripped the rights of Clark County voters. This will start a momentum which will all but destroy our freedom we once held with pride.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 7:19 a.m.

Holytroller, you're not pushing me away from the number one supporter group of loo rail, just because I disagree with your talking points about mass transit. Mass Transportation is critical in regions with such a need. Vancouver AND Clark County do not have a benefit district large enough to support loo rail. There is however, enough of a benefit district to support Bus Rapid Transit.

You have said it yourself that there hasn't been that "Opened floodgate" of jobs...so now explain to the people just how MAX could possibly be supported by the people where 1 in 5 still need food from the local food bank!

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 7:29 a.m.

No, no no, holymolehill. What is it you don't understand in my question? I'm not asking to see the current "ideals" of Clark County. I ASKED you to show me ONE 25-year plan which has worked.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Amendments usually cost taxpayers $$$.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well now. I have been called out and I will respond in kind. Lets get this straight. I have NEVER said that growth in the community is bad. It's they way our elected officials have done the business of the people. I have always said that a bridge is needed.

If you look at the growth projections for the last thirty years you will see revisions almost every five years. Our existing infrastructure has suffered for it. Projects moved to a later date because of no funds available. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul. The future as painted by the officials is unrealistic. We all know that.

Putting LOO-RAIL on a bridge that is too low for some of the river traffic is one of those instances that bears repeating. And using mitigation with our tax money is just a slap in our faces.

Right now it's not a question of bring us kicking and screaming into the 21st century so much as a question of doing it responsibly. The growth that is bandied about counts on people moving here with the knowledge that they will have an access to P-Town. Nothing more nothing less. People want to cash in on this. Rest assured that they will not buy so much over her because our fees and taxes will go up. That is the future as it stands now.

Some of you want us to join in but another reality is we will not have 1.5 million people by 2030. That is the minimum people it will take to sustain this project. That's not counting the amount of businesses needed to be taxed.

It still angers a lot of good hard working folks that the people who want this project with LOO-RAIL are willing to stab us in the back with their hands in our wallet. Ouch my ass hurts again.

I don't know what some will call me and I don't give a damn. I will not lower myself to roll around in the filth. I try very hard to communicate civilly with all the posters on this forum.

JohnCasey — September 27, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 6:49 AM: This will, indeed, heat up the politics.

My biggest surprise last night? Steve Stuart. According to a FB post by Carolyn Crain, she met with him privately and he told her there was no way he was voting for the partnership, unless he had many questions answered.

I thought he was siding with his CC partners, too, given his public comments last week.

Perhaps someone gave him those answers after he talked with Carolyn Crain. I hope, if this is so, that whatever it was that reassured him is shared with us.

I made a recent promise to my health and future well-being that I would go with the political flow on this one. It has to be OK for me either way with this project since my husband is dead-set on staying put and my little opinion doesn't move mountains. My vote is important and that is what I will exercise.

Oregon has to do some more work on this, so who knows. If we bust a gut now when we still do not know the final outcome, we are just hurting ourselves.

David Madore? He is hurting his causes by his filibustering and prosecutorial-style interrogating. No matter how good his ideas may be, his tactics are turn-offs. The button he was wearing last night? Not something he should wear in his role on this board. When he steps from behind that mic and becomes citizen Madore, put it on. Otherwise, he is telling persons who come to testify: my mind is made up and I am really not open to your counter arguments. You are a waste of my time if you don't agree with me.

Just the opposite of what his words convey when he is working hard on "impression management" and trying to convince us he is an objective listener.

Public comment was excellent last night. In my opinion, the pro CRC/light rail folks were better prepared and more articulate. But I don't think any commenters changed any of the Board member's minds. Maybe Stuart? Who knows?

Clark County is not boring and it just got even less boring. Buckle up!

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One more thing. Price of services have always gone up. No matter what the politicians have promised. The tolls will not go away once the project is completed. If Oregon gets their way the only interchange to be dealt with will be the SR-14 to I-5. Where in hell will that leave the rest of the existing interchanges? And you can bet your sweet bippy that it will be done wrong. Just to justify their pipe dream.

As far as the future is concerned why not tear down some of those old musty historical areas? they just muck up progress dontcha know? They are just in the way and need to go. We spend way too much money on them for upkeep anyway. (Said tongue in cheek)

JohnCasey — September 27, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: I have to agree with you on late night blogging (and tweeting, posting). It often is accompanied by a strong adult beverage, which has a disinhibiting effect on judgement.

Better wait until morning before setting passionate thoughts in stone for internet perpetuity if you have a drink next to your keyboard. :)

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey: David Madore agrees with you that the USCG has already made up its mind and will approve the bridge. Madore cites a change in personnel there for the reason.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I own property on the proposed LR line on E 17th, just before it curves North and then East on McLoughlin to Clark College. A small corner of the land will be needed and I have had a letter-in-hand about that acquisition for a couple of years now. I am happy to sell that tidbit. It is not going to make me rich.

The two houses to the East of my property will be full acquisitions. One is already condemned and boarded-up by the County as uninhabitable. Both property owners will make more money by selling those homes for LR development to the government than they ever would on the open market.

As far as I can tell, those three parcels are the only residential/commercial properties that will be acquired for LR construction. No big deal. The fear-mongering about seizing homes through eminent domain on the LR line is just that: fear.

Now, there were homes in Shumway on I Street between 27th and 39th targeted when Washington was going to develop new interchanges between SR 14 and 500, but that is off the table now that WA is not funding the interchange upgrades.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone else's car tabs go up this yr? Mine jumped up to $72.00.

ELISI — September 27, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: My tags did not go up. Did you have to get a new license plate this year? The state is changing the license plate numbering system and, when our old plate numbering "expired", we were mandated to pay for the new plate. I think this might be the reason for your jump. It will go back down next time you need to renew. Give them a call and see.
_________________________________

David Madore is dropping all his self-control and evoking the bible and God on his newest FB post. Truly, I don't think God has a pony in this race, but, whatever inspires you, Dave. Have at it.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder if Jaime is aware that extra square of material on her right shoulder is a rifle butt pad.

Drift — September 27, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou what about the property south at the end of the bridge where LTR will drop into Vancouver?Is that already owned by the City or is it private?Also are business's going to be compensated for their loss's during construction.There will be cross street disruption.I worry about 15th st.Will all the heavy truck traffic be moved to 4th plain and 39th st?I have not been able to get a straight answer on any of these questions.

timerick — September 27, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 9:04 a.m

Duh is on me this morning manthou, I just checked the back of my renewal notice, yep there it is..."replacement plates and parks donation"

Just a few yrs ago I had to replace the plates..now again? I highly doubt the reflective quality goes bad that fast.

ELISI — September 27, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 9:10 am: You get the Eagle Eye award for detail today. :)

timerick: I am going to dig up the property acquisition list and try to post the link here. It will need to be updated, though, if those interchanges are not developed. I know the Wallis' Lucky Lager building is targeted and not many are happy about that, myself included. I thought they were entering into some sort of negotiations/compromise to save it, with the city's support.

All those questions you ask are good ones. Now is the time to get involved with the downtown business associations, if you are not already there as they provide a collective advocacy voice when and IF construction begins.

I know that homeowners along the construction route are talking about having their homes inspected before construction begins to document any damage done by heavy equipment vibrations, for example.

The whole project is going to be a pain in the rear and a disruption for many, no matter how you feel about it.

Just remember my daily question. It is not going to be as bad as losing another child. So we are going to survive whatever the Masters of the Universe declare and we can make it easier on ourselves by going to meetings and making sure our homes and businesses are as protected as much as possible. IF this goes through. And that still is a big IF, as far as I am concerned. :)

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: No, it is another smart ploy to squeeze more money out of our collective turnip bunch and keep those incarcerated busy making new plates.

Do prisoners make plates here in WA? I don't know.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Meanwhile, on the outskirts of Clarkistan...

///Poll: Ted Cruz is your 2016 GOP front-runner///

An amazing new poll shows the Tea Party darling leads Rand Paul, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush and others

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/27/poll_ted_cruz_is_your_2016_gop_frontrunner/

(carry on)

nailingit — September 27, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nail: I hope Cruz is the guy who runs against Hillary. That is a fight I want to see. :)

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 7:51 a.m.

No wounds to be licked, HolyRoller. We still have the decision by the USCG and the fact that the State of Oregon Treasurer agrees it is not financially viable and certain criteria has not been made yet. There's also pending suits taking shape as we write our two cents worth.

It ain't over till the first loo flushes over the Columbia.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 7:57 a.m.

How do you go with the flow of politics, knowing the C-Tran Board of Directors just stole voters' rights from us? Doesn't that bother you at all?

I agree with you that there's not much one person can do to prevent the monstrosity of abuse of power...but many can gather to work together as the power of ONE to stand up against those who have stolen our rights.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: You know, there is so much that bothers me about the world, especially politics, that there isn't enough time left in my life to make a complete list. I can focus on what is wrong or I can focus on what works.

I know what is within my control and what is not. I can control my thoughts and attitude, but I have no control over how politicians choose to vote.

I can send them an email or testify. I can thank them when I think they have done something good. If they choose to ignore me, well, that is their choice.

Look, join up with other like-minded people to promote what you think is right and good. Community activism is part of our healthy checks and balances. Just don't lose your good health by throwing too much anger at it. When I go into a project like that, I give myself and my compadres permission to fail. I expect success. I work for success, but I realize that failure is a possibility. And if activism starts to invade my family or personal commitments in a negative way, I know it is time to step back.

Your personal world and your family will still be together whether the CRC moves forward or not.

Yeah. Tim Leavitt lied to beat Royce Pollard last time. His personal choice. But I am not going to let Tim Leavitt's mistakes invade my personal happiness or family space.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just read an interesting article in Willamette Week's online site. Here's a quote from the article below -

"""The biggest issue may be that C-Tran's plan to cut bus lines between Vancouver and Portland to cover light rail violates federal law. Herrera Beutler writes:

U.S. Code, Title 40, Sec. 5309(d)(2)(C) states that the Secretary may approve a grant only if the project is “supported by an acceptable degree of local financial commitment (including evidence of stable and dependable financing sources) to construct, maintain, and operate the system or extension, and maintain and operate the entire public transportation system without requiring a reduction in existing public transportation services or level of service to operate the proposed project. FTA’s final Guidance reaffirms that rule by using nearly identical language."""

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30738-washington_congresswoman_says_columbia_river_crossing_backers_lied_about_federal_deadlines.html

Top that with this little tidbit:

RCW 81.100.030, RCW 81.104.030, RCW 81.104.140, AND 81.104.200. What do these all have in common??? They all require voter approval.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.

Tim Leavitt's well-choreographed "mistakes" should be enough for you to decide whether or not he's worthy of another term.

You say "Your personal world and your family will still be together whether the CRC moves forward or not."

True, very true...but it's the quality of life which is at stake, here. Do you not understand what this mess will do to the families who aren't directly involved with the construction and operations of MAX in our town? Manthou, I cannot believe such a vocal woman who is dead set against certain political actions within our community would suddenly step up and say "I go with the flow..." as if you're giving up altogether. Quite frankly, it is a shock to read that coming from you. I've had a lot of respect for what you have done already (according to what you have stated in the forum).

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: Why be so concerned about moving me in the direction you think I ought to go? Or believing that you understand what is in my heart and mind and what motivates me? And that what motivates me is wrong?

Go ahead and be disappointed in me. I have so many significant others who feel otherwise, I will survive. :)

C'mon, goldie. How do you feel when others on this Forum think they understand what makes you tick and chide you for it? I think we have seen how that impacts you and frankly, I don't blame you. But why spend so much precious energy fighting ad nauseam? Say it and leave it.

Yes. This project will be disruptive. It will make it expensive for my friends and family to pay tolls for the privilege of visiting me. The streets will be torn up. There will be inconvenient detours and so many other problems.

I have already said that, CRC or no CRC, I would prefer to move south of the Columbia River, somewhere that already has multi-modal transportation in place. Portland. Hillsboro. Milwaukie. God help me, even Beaverton. Unless I want to leave a loyal and loving man behind, it ain't gonna happen.

But I will make a long list of what is working in my life to counteract the negative. I will work on managing my own attitude and what is within my control, rather than trying to control others.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.
Well grounded thoughts, my compliments on your heart of hearts.

agourmet — September 27, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

Cruz will not be the R NOM in 16.. Nor will HC..HC looks like 40 miles bad road and has a closet bigger than Bills now..This will be the best chance for all three branches to go Rep...Having Had BO in office for these 8 years will take the R at least two terms to correct.

On the local sceene Levitt would be my choice at this time. No one else even close. That doesn't mean somebody won't step in but we all know the players... If you haven't had a chance to clean your gutters, better get up there today... Batten down the hatches..Great weekend for football and Fires...

vanwadreamer — September 27, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.

I know you don't care what I think and that's fine. We're all different. Sad to say though, I guess I'd put you on a higher pedestal than you cared to step. I understand exactly what you're saying and I am not pressuring you to vote in my favor when it comes to making a decision. My point was...think about who you will vote for and know that you can live with the choice you have made.

Living south of the Columbia in the Portland Metro area isn't for everyone. If that is the lifestyle you choose, I can understand why you'd choose it. Portland does have a lot to offer...but it comes at quite a hefty price to the folks who live there. At first, I truly wanted to leave Clark County if MAX comes as I see it is not cost effective. It never has been for Portland and has caused education and police/fire/ medical services to be sheared into something the people are quite frustrated with.

The City of Vancouver Police are already on a thin budget. So tell me just how they're going to deal with issues with certain human elements associated with light rail? What services will be trimmed again? When you need VPD or VFD or AMR to come to your home and they are delayed, is that something you are willing to forego???

Transit police can only do so much.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.

Holycheese, you're full of it. Your grandma never walked 100 miles a day to and from school. Stop with the BS and tell the truth for once. How dare you use your grandma's memory that way. You should be ashamed of yourself.

As I've said before, I'm not against progress. In fact, I'm all for progress which is organized and fills a 25-year vision which benefits all in Clark County. I haven't seen that yet, Cheesey!

Till I see those company start ups you've been talking about...till I see long-term employment increase by the numbers rather than hit and misses...till I see an actual positive change in local government and drastic cuts will no longer be necessary in order to keep local programs going.....

I will still stand up against Loo Rail in Clark County. We cannot support the Loo, Cheesey!

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.

So would I. Without a doubt, Hillary (or just about anyone decent) would topple Cruz in a massive way. I never thought taking the House back in 14' was possible. Now I have some hope thanks to Mr. Cruz.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.

I totally get it. When we let outside forces (especially when they are beyond our reach) affect our personal happiness & well being it's a bridge too far. I appreciate your reasoning as well as your advocacy.

Cruz in 2016! :)

nailingit — September 27, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — September 27, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.

You Betcha!

nailingit — September 27, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I watched some C-SPAN earlier. Marsha Blackburn (Rep. TN) & Michele Bachman (MN) (only a handful of Reps were on the floor) were ranting about the destruction of western civilization if they don't stop the Affordable Healthcare Act. :))

Michele will be fortunate just to stay out of jail. This is one conservative evangelical who's got some 'splainin' to doo!!'

This article is for our friends on the right, who, given what "news" bubble many encase themselves in, might not be aware of.

///Bachmann brings in fixer to put out scandal fires///

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) is embroiled in a series of ethical scandals. She faces several federal investigations, a Congressional investigation and local investigations (police and State Senate) in Iowa.


 The investigations center around her failed 2012 presidential bid. She is alleged to have paid presidential staffers with PAC money and coordinated efforts between campaign and PACs. In Iowa she’s in trouble for stealing an email list from a group of evangelical christianists homeschoolers and paying her Iowa Campaign Chair.

Read more @ http://mnprogressiveproject.com/bachmann-brings-in-fixer-to-put-out-scandal-fires/

___

What a low threshold republicans have. Ted Cruz has been scamming them for months fundraising off repealing the ACA, knowing it can't be done.

Now they like him as President.

At some point, you just have to wonder.......................

I suppose since Beck and Limbaugh like him he's good to go! :)))))

Awful damn strange........but true!

nailingit — September 27, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Coast Guard Approves Bridge Permit:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The passing of the C-Tran/Tri-Met accord last night, the killing of Madore's proposition, and the approval given the CRC bridge by the Coast Guard today makes me think that many people knew what was coming down with the Coast Guard. Pressure was then placed on Steve Stuart to go with the pro-people.

If you look at Jim Moeller's testimony last night, he was nearly giddy, as you might expect if he knew who was going to vote YES and what the Coast Guard was going to do.

Time to go buy a lottery ticket because the moon and stars seem to be in perfect alignment if you support this project. If you don't, I suggest buying some garlic and wooden stakes and avoid the dark of night.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Headline on Columbian Newspaper sometime in the next 5 years -

Dearly Beloved, We are Gathered Here Today, to Give our FINAL Respects to ANY Clark County Resident struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

We have been scrawed by the powers that be.

Oh well..nothing new for Clark County and Washington State Leadership. Just as screwed up as they've ever been! Time to adjust trip times to the Sewer of the Pacific Northwest where the Loo began. Maybe look at early retirement, thanks to some wise planning...time to invest in a retirement place outside Clark County. Yep! Time to make other plans.

You who support the Loo...enjoy the flushing of your hard-earned dinero and the jump in property and sales taxes. They'll make the decision without your approval!

FOOLS

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I am going to side with Manthou on this one.To those of us that the actual construction of the CRC is going to directly effect,I would say try to protect what you have. The disruption to those that have a business downtown.You are going to have to be diligent and innovative in order to keep your doors open. I am not against progress but I also don't like seeing the small players that have invested thousands of dollars and more importantly years of hard work have that all washed away for the benefit of the wealthy just so they can make more.The CRC is not what I wanted but I will learn to live with it. I am not moving away from downtown. I will stay and try to work it out. This not the first big change I have seen downtown it is just the biggest.

timerick — September 27, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is getting surreal.

So Carolyn Crain is bragging about putting a call in to Rob McKenna? Does she know he is no longer AG and lost the gubernatorial election to Jay Inslee?

Is she able to pay his $450 plus an hour fee he now earns in the private sector? Or is she is secret Santa pal?

I am laughing so hard, I can barely stand up.

Rob McKenna and Carolyn Crain. As if. As if......

Hope she has $100,000 retainer handy.....

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: Remember, Oregon politics is still a big hurdle, as of yet, still looming. :)

And Carolyn Crain's wrath (God forgive me for egging her on).

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

Well gee manthou. I’m pretty sure C. Crain knows that McKenna isn’t A.G. anymore. The thing about raising money to pay legal bills might be a sort of give away.

Either a monied backer is going to have to step forward, or a pro bono laywer, to take this very far. Just the same, it doesn’t really seem all that funny to me that some citizens believe that the fix is in, and are willing to stand up to it. The only vote on lite rail, that I can recall, was the ’95 vote in which lite rail went down decisively. But here we are anyway. IMO, that kind of makes a case over what’s happened here. Well I mean - except for that vote over the O & M, which also lost decisively. Never have understood how Leavitt can cast votes on this, considering his employer is one of those firms that's on the CRC dole.

kn_dalai — September 27, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Tim...I wish all the best for you and your company as well as the other hardworking folk in downtown whose businesses will be disrupted by the construction and detours. Hopefully it won't put you out too much.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This isn't a done deal by a long shot. Wheeler notes that all the stars have to align properly, or Oregon will lose their shirt pursuing the CRC alone. And Kitz has suggested that 30 September is no longer the deadline - the decision can be deferred. What does this mean?

1. There are only three State Senate seats up for grab; two pit Repub against Repub, and one a popular Repub Representative against an interim appointment Dem incumbent. Either the status quo is maintained, or the Repubs gain a seat. Unless something happens to break up that Senate majority coalition, the odds of the CRC receiving funding from our state aren't that good.

2. The Oregon plan calls for New Starts to commit the entire $850 million. This is actually very possible. What the FHA approves isn't controlled by Congress (except for through funding levels). The money is doled out over a number of years, and once approved, they're isn't much chance of a later decision to cancel annual payments.

3. The Oregon plan calls for a TIFIA loan of $900 million. This is funded under MAP21, which has allocated only $1 billion for TIFIA in 2014. Oregon needs the entire $900 mil committed (per Wheeler) for them to sell bonds to raise their remaining cost. And they've also got to have this loan approved before interest rates rise by 1%. This could happen over the next year, if the Fed quits purchasing T Bills from the banks at the end of the yer as was planned.

And then we get to the biggest problem of all. What if we refuse to cross the I5 bridge to pay the tolls? This is possible - commuters into Seattle have shown they'd rather crowd the I90 bridge than pay to cross the SR520 bridge, and the rate of return to SR520 is much lower than predicted.

You mentioned Moeller's giddiness while testifying. I think this is based on something more than just knowing Stuart was going to bail on his previous promises for a vote. There is a deal in the works. WSDOT controls tolling - and a promise has been made by Gov Inslee to Gov Kitz, and agreed to by Secretary Foxx. If we Clark County commuters say screw you to Oregon and decide to crawl down the I205, expect that bridge to be tolled too.

But I won't be paying. I'll hop a C-Tran express bus and ride free - courtesy of Uncle Sam.

roger — September 27, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 3:53 p.m.

Why do you feel so compelled to follow my comments on other blogs, holyratsola? Are you stalking me???

Frustrated with the Crossing Project outcome of today? Yes.
Furious? No.
My husband? A great guy and a wonderful husband. I couldn't ask for any better. We make a great team as husband and wife (34+ years and counting).

What is this "We are going to rebuild Clark County" BS??? Who is this "WE" BS...James Moeller? Oh wait...he only cares what goes on in his district! You claim you live in Portland and haven't a care in the world. You said it yourself and I quote

"I have never been happier in my life. That is one of the reasons that the CRC/LRT has no relevance what so ever in my lifestyle. I don't buy into your rat race anymore. I don't commute like a hopeless idiot anymore."

Now you're bouncing and rejoicing as though you've had a revelation.

The way you talk now, it sounds as if you've had a vested financial interest in the game all along, eh???

You're pants are on fire, holyratsola!

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 27, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

You sure about that express bus, roger? They're trying to cut out express buses in order to help reduce costs to C-Tran, even though Rep. Herrera-Beutler pointed out that it is illegal to do so.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On a totally different subject matter here....

Chilly, damp day for sure, today.

Looks like we're getting some nasty weather this weekend. Lots of rain and a bit of wind. Rain-soaked ground and drenched trees, coupled with gusty winds will make it interesting to say the least. The weather reports claim Vancouver and Portland will take a direct hit with the drenching rains. Let's hope the winds don't materialize and the power stays on for everybody.

My guess...Johnson Creek and Lacamas Creek will flood. Chehalis River will creep towards I-5. Hopefully the new storm drainage project works for the people in Chehalis and for traffic on I-5.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 6:18 p.m.

Silencing me? Hardly, holyfullabull! The only gravy train is what you're eating for supper tonight. For others...it's the only way they can survive. They look for work and get it where it's available, but I'm sure you knew that, right??

Furious? Not at the decision by the USCG. They made the decision based upon facts. Furious only at the fact that our voting rights have been stripped by the likes of Leavitt and his fellow sell outs, but I got over that once I vented my frustration.

It ain't over till it's over.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie -

They're cutting the four buses that run to Delta Park, and having them end at Clark College instead. And once bridge tolling starts, there will almost definitely be a demand placed on C-Tran to reinstate the express runs from Van Mall that they cancelled a few years ago. This will be along with campaigns to turn down C-Tran sales tax requests. Things will be getting uglier for them.

And if you watched the meeting, did you catch that some of Hamm's funding comes from a fund that will run out after a few years?

roger — September 27, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


FTR: It's perfectly legal to cut express bus service in areas where it is replaced with light rail.
That question was asked and answered several times at last night's meeting, much to the dismay of those looking to score more false talking points off a disingenuously worded letter from Rep. Herrera-Buehler.

JohnK — September 27, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If we get the 3.5 inches of rain being called for earlier today, then I expect a lot of our streets will be flooded. And I guess they're taking this seriously - Vancouver Farmers Market is cancelled this weekend because of the expected winds.

roger — September 27, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK — September 27, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.

Thank you for coming on and pointing that out. I'd read that Express 105 would be trimmed as well. See link below:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK -

Interesting point. So how is an area defined? Did they get into that? (I tuned in late.) I would argue that the only area that would be served by light rail is downtown Vancouver and Clark College. The only express bus serving this area is the 105. And I'd say they're asking for even more trouble if they say the entire west side can see their express buses canceled - a whole lot of people who use the Salmon Creek and the 99th Street TCs are going to be pissed if they get told they need to drive to Clark and catch the train.

roger — September 27, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 27, 2013 at 6:18 p.m.

Actually HC, if all those bridge commuters lived in Oregon, your roads would likely be more crowded. And don’t forget, they pay Oregon State income taxes, without receiving benefits.

I don’t know if the effects on the businesses at Jantzen Beach has ever been researched, but they’re bound to be devastated by a toll on the bridge or eliminating the off/on ramps as I’ve seen suggested.

kn_dalai — September 27, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK, it might be legal to cut bus service...but it might be detrimental to funding of light rail...if going by the US Code below -

U.S. Code, Title 40, Sec. 5309(d)(2)(C) states that the Secretary may approve a grant only if the project is “supported by an acceptable degree of local financial commitment (including evidence of stable and dependable financing sources) to construct, maintain, and operate the system or extension, and maintain and operate the entire public transportation system without requiring a reduction in existing public transportation services or level of service to operate the proposed project.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 27, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

With the autumn leaves starting to fall, surely the drains in the roadways will clog. That's a given...living in the PNW!!!

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger and Goldenoldie:
Don't know how the area is defined, but Mr. Hamm and the consultant sitting next to him last night seemed to have their ducks in order when the question came up. I don't have the transcript, but if I remember right, it was just a few minutes into the financial segment of the staff presentation.
I 'think' it was Commissioner Madore that asked the question; there was a bit of discussion of which express routes would be cut as a result of the LR replacement and which routes could not be cut.
The staff answers make perfectly good sense to me and Mr. Madore seemed satisfied with the answers, or at least as much as I could tell from watching it on TV.u

JohnK — September 27, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK, thanks for sharing your recollection of the meeting. Sometimes what sounds good, has legal issues plaguing the process which could either needlessly delay or destroy it altogether. Only time will tell.

goldenoldie — September 27, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know, I'll just bet it wouldn't cost 86 million to put a lift span in the bridge. What a bunch of idiots.

hawkeye — September 27, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: I have heard people argue that tolls will "encourage" Clark County shoppers to stay in Clark County. I am sure Jantzen Beach will miss the business, but Washington will love getting the sales tax back.

roger: There was a lot of deal-making that brought us to last night and today. Politics in action.

JohnK: Jeff Hamm, did, indeed, reassure David Madore that the following bus lines to downtown Portland would still run: 190, 134, 199 and 105. The bus lines that would be cut to Delta Park ONLY are the 4, 44, 47, and 41. Light rail would duplicate those routes, making them unnecessary to run to Delta Park. They would continue to run in Vancouver, of course.

If anyone wants to go to CVTV to review, skip the citizen comment video and just go to about 33:50 in the regular meeting video for the bus route numbers. Connie Jo asked for them to be repeated, too.

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What in the world is Agenda 21?

Carolyn Crain is now claiming the CRC is part of Agenda 21.

I looked it up online and see names like InfoWars and Glenn Beck attached to it. HuffPo has this article:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/agenda-21-tea-party_n_1965893.html

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.

About the Clark County shoppers: I'm sure that's true. I was just responding to HC's ideas about how bad he thinks it is for Oregon to have CC commuters.

My previous comment to you was about citizen input over real or perceived injustices. Whatever has happened to the recall Madore effort anyway? You do understand the math idea of factors? In the scheme of things, the outrage over Benton, his job and his salary, is of no comparison, to the effects of the CRC lite rail into Clark County. And yet you think it's hilarious that some are up in arms over loot rail, while you think the really big issue is Don Benton.

I hope that JohnK shows up here often. As a CRC supporter, maybe he can answer some of the CRC criticisms. I'd like to start by asking about the Trimet debt, and how that might, or might not, affect Ctran. I for one, will promise to not play any rude games about the whole thing.

kn_dalai — September 27, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a difference a day makes! Glad to see this project go through. Change is difficult for many, but change is a comin'.

A few of our very own basement dwellers have cited 'Agenda 21' over time. It's just another progressive boogeyman conservatives have drummed up for fundraising on fear.

That dastardly evil UN!

Congrats to all those who have remained steadfast for this cause.

nailingit — September 27, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't doubt that there is going to be lots work to try to stop this.But from what I watched last night I think at least on this side of the river,we are looking at a done deal.Like manthou said Oregon has a lot of work to do. But I believe it might be time to accept the fact that the CRC with light rail is going to happen. We need to start planning how we are going to deal with it. It is not something I want to do but it will be better to be prepared to what may happen. It won't do much good to sit back and do nothing. I was not suprised at what happened last night. It looked to me as if everything was a done deal before the meeting even took place. Which means it was a back door deal. I hope Stuart is proud of what he did. I did not expect him to do that.

timerick — September 27, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:55 p.m

http://whatisagenda21.net/index.html

ELISI — September 27, 2013 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


oops forgot to add this one..

http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf

ELISI — September 27, 2013 at 10:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai @ 9:04 pm: I do understand the point you made so well in your earlier post. At the heart of it all is one truth all "factions" can understand and this should be a rallying unifier: government can pull some harmful stunts and citizens need to be vigilant watchdogs. This summer, I had the pleasure of getting to know a Tea Party darling in the WA legislature. He is a smart lawyer and constitutional purist. It was a good experience for both of us to climb into each other's disparities to cull out the commonalities. It is not as prurient or interesting as it sounds. :) He helped me advocate against a bill that we both agreed was harmful to civil liberties. Sometimes we need to pause and take a look at how connected we all are.

I happen to think the Don Benton hire and Madore's obstructive tactics are worthy of MY attention and effort. You might think another "project" more worthy from your perspective. None of them should be abandoned because the more eyes and ears on Uncle Sam, the better we all are.

I am not proud of poking fun of Carolyn (she needs to work on her snarky delivery), but at the heart of her behavior is a healthy distrust of government and desire to protect her rights and way of life. It was ironic to me that she would turn to Rob McKenna, a politician like all the others, someone who sold out some of his prior supporters in the hopes of grabbing political advantage. It failed. However, I don't feel sorry for him. He is licking his wounds in the bosom of a prestigious blue chip law firm, making more money than he ever has in his life. I doubt he looks back, but I sure know his law partners are not going to let him near any CRC challenge.

I was asking about Agenda 21. Since Carolyn mentioned it twice in Lew Water's blog, I thought learning about it might offer some insights into what drives some of the Anti-CRC crowd. The qualifying word is "some." I am still not there yet. I truly was blindsided by its concepts. I had never heard about it before. I even think Bill Ganley, at the end of the C-Tran Board meeting, started spouting some of the conspiracy concepts of it.

The CRC has exposed the clash of cultures going on in Clark County now. We are just going to have to figure out how to live together in the 21st Century, rather than one side trying to deny or destroy the other's lifestyle preference.

Elisi: Thanks for the link. My weekend homework.

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: As someone who tries really hard to re-frame disappointing news into something worth waking up for, I offer you this:

We need to thank David Madore for inspiring the Freeholder/Home Rule movement. Same thank you to other controversial politicians of late. It will help unify and heal Clark County and offers hope for a better, more citizen-friendly government. I have not seen such a widespread interest in a local election in a long time. I have not seen so many citizens get up off the couch and go to public meetings. All this is good.

The CRC issue downtown and in the rural areas will bring new friends and allies to our lives as we work together to preserve our homes and businesses. Neighborhood associations are seeing more interest in their meetings, too.

You mention that you were pleasantly surprised when some of the doom and gloom did not become reality with earlier changes to downtown. Let's assume the same outcome with the CRC and maybe we won't be disappointed. But it needs a united effort and I think we are getting there:)

Steve Stuart? Someone or some persons very powerful got to him before the meeting on Thursday. Maybe he will disclose what motivated his change-of-heart, but I think he will hold that real reason close to his chest. Politics is all about wheeling and dealing and obfuscating. :)

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 27, 2013 at 9:59 p.m.

Tim, there's still the matter of funding for the Washington side of the project. This is still a venture which needs agreements by both states. Remember, the State Senate here in Washington said no (as did the voters regarding O&M; of the loo).

..

kn_dalai — September 27, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.

I don't think you'll get a definitive answer...just assumptions and educated guesses. Looking at TriMet's handling of funds and all the cutbacks and reduction of services, you can bet on it that the problem will pour on into Vancouver.

..

manthou — September 27, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. and September 27, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.

It will be a reduction of certain services, manthou. Those coming from other destinations who relied on direct service to Hayden Island will find delays as a result of the need to transfer to MAX for 2 1/2 miles.

Do you call this efficiency?

Regarding Agenda 21 - be a skeptic and don't take it at face value. You of all people should know what is written and what is being done behind the scenes can carry two different faces. Yes, Agenda 21 sounds like a great plan on paper...but at what cost to the people? That tomato plant you harvested from this summer...may some day be off limits to you for your own family, even though it grows in your own yard and you did all the hard work.

Sounds far fetched, huh. Just read the true stories about Monsanto and what they're doing to the farmers and think again about what I've said. Then follow up by reading Section II "Conservation of Management and Resources for Development," Chapter 14 "Promoting Sustainable Agriculture and Rural Development."

It sends chills up and down my spine.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Lou B: Beautiful, from-the-heart tribute to an extraordinary human being this morning. May we all aspire to Rob Figley's heights. :)

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 6:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You know those wonderful veggies you grow in your garden...how would you like it if someone came in and tore up the fruits of your effort...destroyed your garden and you wouldn't get a penny from them??? It could happen. Here's some reading materials for you during our stormy weather -

http://www.rodalenews.com/research-feed/organic-farmers-lose-right-protect-crops

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-4048288.html

And the next link gave me the shivers. Some quotes from the article by Monsanto -

"When one farmer sees another farmer saving patented seed, they will often report them. Many of the tips Monsanto gets about farmers saving patented seeds come from other farmers in the same community." (This is what our nation has become)

"Usually, cases come to us when someone reports they believe seed is being saved illegally." (Illegally??? Why is this necessary?)

"Since 1997, we have only filed suit against farmers 145 times in the United States." (A monopoly)

http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/saved-seed-farmer-lawsuits.aspx

A TRAVESTY

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie: I know about Monsanto's abuse of power. I have always been horrified by one haunting story in particular: its ability to muzzle investigative reporters Steve Wilson and Jane Akre, who wrote a story about BGH (bovine growth hormone). Monsanto was able to successfully kill the story and Steve Wilson and Jane Akre were unceremoniously fired. Their careers were never the same.

Its ugly tentacles reach and destroy far and wide.

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Madore's new letter to Tom Wolfendale: He accuses Leavitt and Wolfendale of being biased, yet Madore sat through that entire public meeting meeting with an big red and white anti-CRC button glued to his pecs. Oh, the irony.......

He wants to invalidate the C-Tran vote taken Thursday and wait for the new board in January. I suspect he thinks he will help install some of his cronies.

Grab a comfy chair and some popcorn. Let the circus resume!

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I hope that JohnK shows up here often. As a CRC supporter, maybe he can answer some of the CRC criticisms. I'd like to start by asking about the Trimet debt, and how that might, or might not, affect Ctran."

kn_dalai — September 27, 2013 at 9:04 p.m

kn dali: Don't confuse my distain for the tactics and politics of much of the anti-CRC crowd for my support of light rail. At best, I'm a skeptical supporter. As far as the Trimet debt is concerned; it's my understanding, from Mr. Hamm's testimony at the Thursday night meeting, that those issues have been separated from the agreement and neither CTRAN or Clark Co are assuming any liabilities for that debt.

JohnK — September 28, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK — September 28, 2013 at 7:50 a.m

That's really funny. It's like sticking an infected needle into your arm- sure, we know it's infected but you shouldn't worry, it won't infect you. Just ignore those germs and go about your business.

hawkeye — September 28, 2013 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It seems to me that the C-Tran Board failed to follow a proper process in determining to enter into the agreement with TriMet.

As Madore's failed resolution noted - "WHEREAS, that resolution was confirmed on May 21, 2013 in C-TRAN staff report #13-023 that specifically confirms that requirement as an important condition of approval of the CRC LPA by stating “The other important condition in C-TRAN’s LPA required a public vote for ‘any means chosen’ to finance CRC LRT operations and maintenance costs on the Washington side of the project."

I can find nothing in the C-Tran Board meeting minutes to show they've voted to overturn that 2008 decision. In fact, as late as the 16 Aug 13 Board meeting, while arguing over whether the BRT financing should go to the voters, Steve Stuart stated -- "...the Board Policy states "...any means to finance Columbia River Crossing HCT..." but it does not reference BRT."

Various Board members continuously chide Madore (quite properly) for failing to follow proper procedures during the meetings. How then can they decide to not follow their own policy when making this decision. I understand the "Why" - it's too late to make the November ballot. David Hamm put them in this position when failing to follow through with a directive to prepare this packet some months earlier - he decided that since the Senate killed the State's funding, the project was dead. But is this right, and is it legal? I'm thinking we haven't heard the last of this.

roger — September 28, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 28, 2013 at 7:46 a.m.

He wants to invalidate the C-Tran vote taken Thursday and wait for the new board in January. I suspect he thinks he will help install some of his cronies.

---------------------------------------
If Turlay is mayor, J Stewart is reelected, Doan and Decker are elected, his "pro-citizen team" will be in place. From 9/23:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=624299230924922&set;=np.128833754.100000137085194&type;=1&theater;¬if;_t=notify_me

Don't you think his check book is open along with Vitality Vancouver?
________________________________________
From Brian Carlson discussing personnel at CC:

those 3 out the door were just the start, more good folks on the way. They say art imitates life? The only change needed to get the County logo more realistic is to put a high powered Mercury outboard on the back of that canoe.

langenthal — September 28, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Agenda 21 has been brought up here several times by others.

___

These weird conspiracies are strange to us living outside the Glenn Beck-InfoWars bubble. Let's keep them that way. These conspiracy theories by and large feed into people's fears and ignorance. We can do so much better than this. It's easy for me to say quit being fearful and ignorant, but for many these conspiracies bring solace and comfort, believing they have a heads up on the "evil" the world is perpetuating.

Conspiracies provide extra shadows for those who are afraid of their own. This carnival barker nonsense always bleeds into the basement sooner or later.

///Agenda 21 conspiracy theories (easily debunked)///

[Agenda 21 was a lovely document produced to help move the world toward more sustainable living, promoting smart growth and care for our surroundings. It has, like most U.N. documents, no teeth. And it respects national boundaries and sovereignty. I saw it as a rather pie-in-the-sky effort but forward thinking nonetheless.

(Agenda 21) is one of the most laughable conspiracies around today, except that it has been taken seriously by too many people …

I cannot fathom why a group of people would twist this document into an ugly conspiracy that supposedly hopes to cage people in cities to let wildlife roam free, and then rule those people in a global government. This is one of the most laughable conspiracies around today, except that it has been taken seriously by too many people, apparently most ferociously by the extreme right. The document is easily Googled and read, and you will find absolutely nothing to support such fear-mongering talk.

This would be funny if it were not actually influencing and frightening gullible people. Moreover, to have an elected official in charge of the security of our county condoning such nonsense is of concern. After all, isn’t this an official who requests money from the county and state for security purposes? I have always assumed in good faith this is to protect our rural county. Do I now need to wonder if he believes in this conspiratorial world takeover? And what does this mean as someone who has authority and weapons in my small community?

I suggest that people use their critical thinking skills and do their own research when it comes to conspiracy theories like these. And I would request that my elected officials be mindful of their position, and the responsibility that comes with it to serve the people and the truth, not crackpot theories of world domination.]

http://www.theunion.com/opinion/4673804-113/agenda-conspiracy-county-easily

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Even though our national government hasn't endorsed Agenda 21, over 500 cities and local governments have joined the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives, which does strive to achieve what the UN's Conference on Environment and Development set forth in their Agenda 21.

But Nails is mostly correct - this has no teeth. Locally one could argue that Portland Metro subscribes to this, and that it's the reason for their opposition to anything that would lead to more traffic. But the basis for opposition in our country is the idea of ceding our national sovereignty to the UN.

The real "problem" is on the international scene. China does not subscribe either, and if you track their investment in economic development in Africa and South America, you'll see a lack of adherence there too.

roger — September 28, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 9:45 a.m

Thanks for the link nail, but I'd rather go by the UN documents I found and gave the link to manthou.

http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf

http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/index.php?page=view&nr;=23&type;=400&menu;=35

ELISI — September 28, 2013 at 11:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI/goldenoldie-The chills running up and down your spine are from the UN whispering voices-THEY are waiting for you. In the shadows-in the dead of night-the evil global dictators are coming to get you!

___

Somebody, anybody, please wake these government workers up and explain to them the 'who and the why' the American people voted in 2008-2012.

///GOP's Dangerous Debt Limit Demand: A Christmas Tree Of Conservative Goodies///

Christmas is coming early for House Republicans.

A draft of the GOP leadership's proposal to lift the debt ceiling through December 2014 is circulating and it's the equivalent of a letter to Santa for the party's base.

The bill, obtained by the National Review, tacks on items including a one-year delay of Obamacare; tax reform in the image of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI); approval of the Keystone pipeline; expanded offshore drilling and other pro-oil and coal energy reforms; increases in military spending coupled with deeper cuts to domestic programs; repealing a fund in the financial regulatory reform bill; means testing for Medicare; repealing the Obamacare prevention and public health fund and medical malpractice reform.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop-s-dangerous-debt-limit-demand-a-christmas-tree-of-conservative-goodies

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wi-Fi dump exorcised! Avatarial freedom at last! It's alive!!!!

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

OK, Nails - There's some crazy stuff in that proposal, and everyone knows it won't go anywhere. The problem is that whatever side one is on, it's the other side that gets to shoulder all the blame. Bush 2's staff chose to get around Congress by just ignoring them. It worked for much of his first term after 9/11, but early in his second it came crashing down. When the Dems took control they began playing a similar game, e.g., Speaker Pelosi refusing to allow Repub input to health care planning. Since the Repub takeover of the House in 2010 it's been a constant "our way or the highway" between the House and Senate leadership. Both parties are to blame! And Pres Obama has done nothing to get the leadership to work together and compromise - instead, he's played the political game and joined in with the finger pointing.

roger — September 28, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Both parties are to blame!"

roger — September 28, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.

Your statement reminds me of japanese driving/accident laws. Regardless of the situation, both parties are always to blame. Even though someone is sitting at a red light and gets ramrodded from behind, it's both driver's fault. The accident never would have happened to the one sitting at the light if he hadn't been there in the first place.

Award: The driver sitting at the light gets 20-30 % of blame.

Sure, they are "all to blame".

The trouble with "they are all to blame" is that the logic is intellectually dishonest.

Maybe, just maybe, the right will consider which way the voters have voted. I won't hold my breath.

Obstructionism has been taken to new levels, and many on the right (as well as "Independents") have accepted this with open arms, much to our County's chagrin.

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, should have been "Country's" chagrin. But both could be applicable.

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"OK, Nails - There's some crazy stuff in that proposal, and everyone knows it won't go anywhere."

Whaaa..? It's the Republican party platform!

But yes, Americans determined in 2012 these proposals won't go anywhere.

Yet they still.......

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice debunking of Agenda 21, Nails. Thanks. I think people who are afraid of a conspiracy need to take a look at ALEC instead. Talk about a takeover. And that one is real.

Roger. Read your comments on FB side re gov workers and shutdown. Not all think like you, my friend. Got gov worker right here in household and let me tell you, we are angry. Very very angry. And we would not take it well if we had to wait for a paycheck because ONE party is so ticked off that they want to shut us down to win a point. Shutdown costs a lot of money also. They nicely ignore that point.

luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I think people who are afraid of a conspiracy need to take a look at ALEC instead. Talk about a takeover. And that one is real."

luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.

Well said luvit. ALEC+Benton=Disaster for our environment.

Laird had a great column awhile back addressing this.

I sure miss John Laird offering up witty insightful commentary each week.

I can still hear the hounds a whining.... :)

///John Laird: Foxy Don wears ALEC badge in environment henhouse///

The American Legislative Exchange Council sounds innocent enough. But the truth is, ALEC is every county environment's worst nightmare. In 2002, two national organizations (the Defenders of Wildlife, and the Natural Resources Defense Council) exhaustively researched ALEC and produced a 52-page page report, "Corporate America's Trojan Horse in the States" (read it at http://www.alecwatch.org). The report states: "Protecting corporate polluters from environmental regulation is a major ALEC goal. The corporations and trade associations that finance virtually all of ALEC activities have used it to mount a wide-ranging and effective assault against laws safeguarding public health and the environment."

Boss Benton, aghast Clark County residents are learning, is a Washington state co-director of ALEC. It'll be interesting to see how he serves his two masters, both national and county.

The report says "ALEC is little more than a tax-exempt screen for major U.S. corporations and trade associations that use it to influence legislative activities at the state level. ALEC allows these corporations to do what they couldn't attempt openly without risking public criticism."

Legislators pay small ALEC dues in exchange for receiving boilerplate bills, which prove to be handy for part-time legislators, as we have in Washington. Corporations pay many thousands of dollars annually and, in 2002, provided more than 95 percent of ALEC's funding. These deep-pocket sugar daddies include oil, chemical, waste disposal, pharmaceutical and tobacco companies.

Read more @ http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ma...

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/sep/27/in-our-view-help-kids-make-right-choice/#comments

And so, as he is prone to do, David Arnett jumped in to comment on the opinion piece. Last I looked there were only seven comments. I mention this so you won't feel 'burdened' by taking your own look at the exchange.

"So, Joseph, what do you believe will happen a year from now? Will teens who currently use pot stop trying to buy the stuff? Will street criminals decide that it really is better to follow the law and not sell to teens? Or will street criminals lose the ability to read the signs that tell them where the pot is publicly available for purchase?"

Puh-leeze.

No, Mr. Arnett, the kids won't stop buying and selling the stuff. That particular segment of the black-market will be tough to rout. Have you ever had a kid approach you outside of the convenience store, "Hey, mister, would you buy me a six pack? I have the money."

The poor kid obviously doesn't have an older brother, right?

And that thing about street criminals not selling to kids...
First off, the sentence is nonsensical. But I'll go there anyway. It's a slow afternoon.

Part of the whole scheme, David, is about making the black-market (those criminals you write of) no longer viable. I really can't imagine a market devoted wholly to peddling to kids. The advertising between the Saturday morning cartoons not withstanding.

The kid's buddy's older brother will become the "criminal."

I've read the last sentence, like, ten times now and I'll be damned if I can make heads nor tails out of it. Is he actually insinuating unscrupulous individuals will be purchasing weed simply to make a buck peddling it to kids? I'm not sure...

I thought that was what the kid's (previously mentioned) buddy's older brother was for. Sheesh.

I've two real simple questions for Mr. Arnett:
How well has our previous attempts at stymieing juvenile cannabis abuse worked?

Do you think, maybe, another approach should be taken?

No, I don't have any qualms about addressing David Arnett's comments, here, "behind his back." My daughter (a Facebook'er) previously invited Mr. Arnett to the forum to engage me. He pleaded ignorance. He responded he couldn't find it.

Or his butt, with both hands, I'd wager.

Drift — September 28, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It looks like Republicans have decided for a government shutdown. I suppose they're banking on voters blaming both parties for it. :) They love to disrupt and destroy government from the inside, then step back and point their collective finger at it's dysfunctionality .

Americans are waking up...

minutes ago...

House Republicans embrace government-shutdown plan

Just a few days ago, there was ample reason to believe a government shutdown was unlikely. The process was unfolding as if it had been scripted -- the House passed its far-right version, which the Senate fixed and sent back. All the House had to do was pass the Senate version, keep the government's lights on, and we could all move on to the next Republican-imposed crisis. At least temporarily, it was going to be relatively easy.

But that's apparently not going to happen.

House Republicans unveiled a plan on Saturday that would keep the government open until Dec. 15 in exchange for a one-year delay of Obamacare -- an idea Democrats have vowed to reject.

The House GOP's decision to drive a hard line on health care means a government shutdown is practically inevitable on Oct. 1, since Democrats in the Senate have vowed to reject it.

Specifically, House Republicans, apparently acting at Sen. Ted Cruz's (R-Texas) behest, have demanded a temporary spending bill that would (a) delay implementation of the Affordable Care Act for a year; (b) repeal the health care law's medical device tax, which means Republicans hope to add over $100 billion to the deficit over the next decade; and (c) provide funds to U.S. troops in the event Republicans shut down the federal government.

And if Democrats fail to accept this offer, Republicans will, of course, have shut down the government, just as they did in 1995, and just as they said they wouldn't do if given power again.

Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) reportedly told his fellow conservative colleagues, "I said, like 9/11, 'let's roll!'"

You see, in the deluded minds of unhinged lawmakers, they're the heroes, vowing to shut down the federal government unless Democrats start taking away health care benefits from working families.

It's a level of stupidity that hardly seemed possible, and yet, here we are.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 27, 2013 at 12:26 p.m

Very, very well said!

Thanks for saying in such positive language what needs to be incorporated by all of us, no matter what political or religious aspects of personal philosphies we each may be inclined toward.

jacjak — September 28, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


why would house republicans refuse to pay the bills they've already approved?

perhaps this--

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

made me think of Cruz immediately.

mrd — September 28, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 11:53 a.m

I gave manthou the link to the UN site with the Agenda 21 document on it so she can read and come to her own opinion about it.
Never did I say a word either way. As with anything, each reads into it what they want.
So allow manthou and others if they so choose to read up on it come to their own conclusion about Agenda 21 without you screaming CONSPIRACY.
Or...listing a ton of Beck, Limbaugh, Infowars, Jesse Ventura conspiracy sites.

psssst nailing it, did you know Bush sr had something to do with Agenda 21..now go do your homework, read the UN document, lets see what your conclusion is.

ELISI — September 28, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"Never did I say a word either way."

ELISI — September 28, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.

You've brought this Agenda 21 stuff up before. So please, since you opened the gate and brought it to our attention, how do you feel? Does it cause "chills to run up and down your spine" as it does goldenoldie?

"psssst nailing it, did you know Bush sr had something to do with Agenda 21.."

Yes I did. It's come up quite a bit in times past researching this goofy stuff.

"now go do your homework, read the UN document, lets see what your conclusion is."

Sorry teach, already have, (the bulk of it) and determined long ago this is nothing but a pundit gold mine for shysters capitalizing off weak and bias thinking.

But since you're assigning homework, please tell us what you agree or disagree with in my post at 9:45.

Since you brought it up n' all.

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 28, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.

Federal Government is implementing segments of Agenda 21 into our daily lives. One example...Obamacare. Another...light rail (thanks to WJC, GWB and BHO, just to name a few). Funny...our government wants to force everyone into 1800's choo choo's in order to save energy and reduce our carbon footprint, but they're still allowing fracking for oil; they're still allowing coal mining; they're still allowing massive deforestation clear cuts which take many decades to centuries to grow back and they're still allowing strip mining. They're also still allowing cars 25 years old and older to remain on the road with a bit higher cost to the car owner.

Makes you wonder!!!

Nails...There is a lot of good tucked into Agenda 21, but the way it is worded...as most mega-entity documentation (UN, US Government, etc.) is worded...leaves room for those who do not have our best interests at heart and that is why Agenda 21 is not law. THAT is what gives me the heebee jeebees about it. Nice try, though.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.

Luvit...it stinks that there's so much corruption everywhere we look.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — September 28, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.

Great quote, and accurately sums up Cruz and a few others.

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Nice try, though."

A conspiracy around every corner...

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey!!! Anybody lost power yet?

hawkeye — September 28, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just the twins and their Agenda 21 ruse.

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 28, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.

Holycannoli...it is my opinion that sometimes (more often than not), Monsanto is dead wrong when it comes to legalities. You can't tell the wind not to blow and you can't tell the bees not to pollinate. They have taken the "eminent domain" mentality when it comes to anything and everything that grows. Their seeds are drenched in RoundUp so that anything...ANYTHING that grows near them is killed off. Monsanto's GM seed drift in the wind and are pollinated by the bees, destroying organic farms all across the world...and THEY are protected by law, not the organic farmers. Maybe YOU want to eat the crap they've developed but I sure as hell do not.

BTW, you hear of the pomato or the fish tomato? If you haven't you'd best check it out.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal



hawkeye — September 28, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.

Not yet, here but it's getting iffy. Daughter just called me when she reached her destination. A tree went down in the road in front of her. Luckily, she wasn't going too fast and was able to avoid it. Tonight's one thing. Tomorrow night is another.

I-205 Bridge is definitely interesting.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Power still on here Hawkeye..good thing, I have bread in the oven as we speak and a cake to bake after.

Home made chicken noodle soup for dinner..it's one of those soup kinda days. Was going to make chicken and dumplings for dinner but with this storm doubt the dumplings would turned out.

ELISI — September 28, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.

Are you conspiring???

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 28, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.

I just had vegetable bean soup with ham shanks I made last night! SOOOO yummy! The beans, I grew along with the garlic and onions and carrots!

..

The winds will be stronger till around 8pm according to the National Weather Service.

A relative of mine just informed me of several large tree branches down in his neighborhood near Brush Prairie.

Stay Safe, EVERYONE!!!

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — September 28, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

I think Dave is a prime example of extreme idiocy & a great intellect crossing paths.

He seems to be one who is shackled by a religious upbringing.

If Dave ever has the gumption to post here, I'll offer up one of my select exorcisms.

He'd better hurry! On sale now for a buck two eighty nine.

http://nailingitexorcismstoincludetheglennbeckfolk.com

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, the wind is frightful. Many sirens I hear right now. I actually helped with the annual neighborhood clean up today. Soaked to the bones and surprised so many people braved the rain to dump their debris.

Homemade soup sounds good. Elisi, goldie: how 'bout getting out of your cozy homes and bringing me over some? I do not have the energy to cook. :)

Fish tomato? Pomato? More homework.....

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Attendance at college football games down because students cannot text or tweet!

Not the college football days of my youth.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.geekwire.com/2013/college-football-game-attendance-dropping-due-lack-wifi/

manthou — September 28, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gold,
did you hear about the pesticide drenched ornamental little flowers you can buy at Lowe's and Home Depot these days? Turns out - a bit of undercover work from a green group - these flowers are sold with the soil itself as well as the plant soaked in the same pesticide that is associated with bee die-off. Not much of an answer so far as to why from either store.
So, I buy a nice little flower for patio and I get free poison. Why oh why? What is purpose? Goal? Aim? This is sickening to me. Monsanto (ALEC lovers and supporters and signers)all the way.

I am making Hackbraten. That is German style meatloaf. Comes with gravy even! Sounds just right for this stinky weather.

luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, Nails: which story did Arentt post? I can't find it.

luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Monsanto is dead wrong when it comes to legalities. You can't tell the wind not to blow and you can't tell the bees not to pollinate. They have taken the "eminent domain" mentality when it comes to anything and everything that grows.

goldenoldie — September 28, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.

Monsanto isn't the only Dr. Frankenstein brewing up creations in labs and using the law against those who may protest; DNA gene splicing and engineering is the hotbed of research with medical and pharmaceutical companies. And while this year the Supreme Court ruled (sort of) that human DNA is off limits for patents, they're a little late to the party. About 20% of the human gemone is already protected by U.S. patents. Without the very public attention given to Angelina Jolie's genetic testing that preceded her double mastectomy, who would even know their own DNA structures had been appropriated by patents intended for profit? So much for being about to seek a second opinion should a cell structure develop an anomaly.

jacjak — September 28, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.

luvit-Here is Drift's link again. Forest Fairweather (I believe our very own frobro) also chimes in.

Some German meatloaf sounds great! I'm considering it (or a variation) for tomorrow's dinner.

///In Our View: Help Kids Make Right Choice///

Legalization of pot has not changed fact that doing drugs is an individual decision

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/sep/27/in-our-view-help-kids-make-right-choice/#comments

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Nails. Read it now. I concur with Drift's assessment of Davy.

luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///House Dems watch the GOP ‘circus’///

By GINGER GIBSON | 9/28/13 5:54 PM EDT

With little other choice, House Democrats are sitting back and watching what they see as a Republican implosion.

There isn’t much else they can do. Republicans aren’t reaching out to compromise with their leadership. The GOP is barely even telling them when to show up and vote.
“It’s like watching theater, or maybe the circus,” Rep. Xavier Becerra, the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, told POLITICO. “You’re trying to figure out what act is next. We’re almost forgetting that we’re dealing with a budget bill, so I think it’s hard on the Democratic side to understand why our Republican colleagues would want to take us over the cliff.”

..

Most Democrats are now declaring a shutdown inevitable.

Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) said he doesn’t see a path at this point to avoiding a shutdown.

“Whenever you have a group that says my way or the highway it becomes very, very difficult to do anything,” Cummings said. “No relationship can move forward when it’s a my way or the highway.”

Cummings said he’s going to pray for the Republicans.

“You just hope that they come to their senses and I think at some point when you’ve got folks who are willing to shut down the government and basically disrupt the United States economy and the world economy because they can’t get what they want, there is something awfully wrong with that picture,” he said.

Rep. Rob Andrews (D-N.J.) said there is no doubt the Republican proposal will lead to a shutdown.

“This is not an accident,” Andrews said. “This is an intentional decision that they made. And we’re going to see how the public reacts to it.”

Andrews predicted public backlash.

“Even people who do not support the health care law and want to see it repealed or significantly modified, think that this is a tactic that is reckless, harmful to people and wrong,” he said.

Democrats are happy to point out what they see as dysfunction in the Republican conference.
“It’s obvious that there is chaos in their own caucus,” Rep. Cedric Richmond (D-La.) said. “They don’t know what’s going on so we don’t know what’s going on. The sad part is that the American people are going to pay for the dysfunction of the Republican Congress.”

“You can’t compromise with someone who is just intent on shutting government down,” Richmond said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/house-dems-enjoy-the-gop-circus-97507.html#ixzz2gKxv9DVk

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And they're half drunk ta boot??? Should we laugh or cry? We know what Boehner's doing-crying in his bourbon.

From the above reporter! Hope this makes the Sunday talk shows!

Follow

Ginger Gibson
Verified account

‏@GingerGibson
I'm not over exaggerating when I say I can smell the booze wafting from members as they walk off the floor.

https://twitter.com/GingerGibson/status/384127970199470080

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


For those interested, this debacle is being carried live on C-SPAN. I wish they would fan out their picture, to include the high wire acts and elephants jumping through hoops. Too much!

Steny Hoyer is trying to make sense of it all. Take it to em' Steny! (is that Mike Lee barfing in the corner?) After all, Mormon tea is 150 Proof.

Hiccup....

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rep. David Scott talkin' hate of Obama on the floor! Repeatedly rebuked from the Republican Chair!

Great theatre.

The House in 14'!

Death by a thousand cuts!

Someone call Roto-Rooter to mop up!

Republicans gone wild!!

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rep. Steve Israel is reminding viewers this is not Saturday Night Live!

It's the Republican majority!

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The republican house has become a poster child for contraception/abortion. The dangers of not allowing such are on full display!

///House Republicans Target Contraception In Last-Minute Spending Bill///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/28/republicans-contraception-measure-_n_4010383.html

nailingit — September 28, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Breaking my self-imposed Madore Moratorium.

Temple Lentz could fill a month's worth of Anecdotal Evidence with open mic readings of his Facebook rants. I am going to suggest it to her, actually.

Madore's grandiosity may be a pathology that needs treatment. He has lived his life as an autocrat and has surrounded himself with people and family who are subservient, dependent and blindly obey. He is not used to anyone opposing him. He makes up his own rules and argues his own legal opinion, even against the city and county's most experience and competent lawyers.

So, hire yourself an attorney, David, like you did a forensic accountant. It's your money. But I don't think Tom Wolfendale, nationally respected as a transportation law expert, would get himself into a legal mess just to piss you off.

Now, we KNOW that Madore and his pal Mielke bypassed Clark County hiring process and procedure to install their crony Don Benton into a post they want to control. That was OK.

He is accusing Jeff Hamm and Tom Wolfendale of doing something similar, but they had the green light from the C-Tran majority to go ahead with the contract with Tri-Met.

I am getting out my DSM V to see if there is even a diagnosis for this mental abnormality. We might have to cobble a new one together.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW: I want a to-the-penny accounting of all legal defense hours Clark County spends as a result of Madore's ego-stroking actions. We are going to be in a hole so deep.....

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, watched the circus last night for a few minutes but couldn't stomach it. Had this woman standing at podium just making up facts out of thin air. Fools, clowns, liars.
And we suffer for their stupidity.

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere and nail: We watched C-Span at length last night, too. The weather made us a captive audience.

Serious implications for a government shutdown, yet legislators use it as a tool as if it were insignificant and frivolous. There are human lives and faces behind this looming shutdown.

We see the same thing playing out locally and I believe this November election on both levels is crucial to balancing some of this extremism.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, the election is critical but you are assuming that many of the good folks voting will use the logical side of their brain. I am rather pessimistic.
Found a fitting dx yet in the DSM for Madore yet? Extreme narcissistic thinking plays decisive role IMO. And why do I keep thinking about Napoleon?

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Everyone should read D. Madore’s latest FB page entry @11:24 pm, 9/28/13.

While JohnK has expressed “disdain for the tactics and politics of much of the anti-CRC crowd” it’s been my observations that just the opposite is warranted. They have ignored the votes that have been taken on the lite rail matter in the past, and repeatedly refused to place a new vote to the citizens. Including what goldenoldie has referred to @12.35 pm, 9/27/13.

Some of David Madore’s latest FB entry:

"I just received a copy of the 40-page contract that C-Tran Attorney Tom Wolfendale and C-Tran CEO Jeff Hamm already executed (signed) with Portland TriMet. They did this without even showing the proposed contract to the Board. They made it effective immediately with no reasonable time period for the Board to even review. They made no provision for the Board to make any reasonable amendments.

They built into that contract the requirement that C-Tran must pay to Tri-Met, $5 million in liquidated damages if for any reason, C-Tran fails to fully support everything specified in the agreement including the requirement that C-Tran shall use eminent domain to condemn and transfer all properties demanded by Tri-Met to that agency."

And much more. Unconscionable.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: :)))))

Madore is amusing as hell to me. The hypocrisy of his double-standard flies right over his brilliant brain.

About the wisdom of the voting masses: the Founding Fathers did not trust it, either. You are in very esteemed company!

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: Did you read The Columbian's editorial today? I agree with it. The process is like sausage-making: messy but necessary for the end result.

If there is any legal impropriety, I am confident it will be ferreted out. I don't think Tom Wolfendale would have been so intemperate, however.

Also, Madore thinks Chris Horne is going to interfere with C-Tran. Not gonna happen.

Maybe Madore will find an attorney who will. It is up to him and his private funds, though.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvit-manthou

What a spectacle! Funny on one hand and pathetic on the other. Ted Cruz is going on Meet The Press at nine. David Gregory is on the ropes with terrible ratings. (well deserved) I wonder if Gregory will bother to grill him. The after panel should be good.

This pending shutdown is going to happen in my opinion. What is sad, is when smart people blame both sides. (one can only do so in the abstract for it to make any sense) roger chimed in yesterday about this. I can only think some are not paying attention to detail, or are claiming such in a desperate partisan attempt. We need to be smart and honest with our votes.

To top it off, it sounds like many are drinking on the job! I've never had a job that allowed this.

Chris Matthews is on the MTP panel.

Buckle up!

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Breaking my self-imposed Madore Moratorium.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:14 a.m.

Well, that lasted for two posts! :)))

(all in good fun:)

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:58 a.m

I’ve read it now. It was wrtten before the contract was signed and reviewed. But of course there isn’t going to be any review. Given the Columbian’s well promoted stance on the CRC, that editorial is predictable. One will note that the Columbian has decided that this is “moving forward”. And just who is it that decided that?

“Necessary for the end result” manthou? That pretty much sums it up but this is not about making sausage. As Roger noted, this is about the ends justify the means. Regardless of what one thinks of the Benton hire, the Benton hire is peanuts compared to this.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh brother.............................................................

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jon Huntsman is also on the MTP panel. I'll listen with open ears to what he has to say. He earned some respect in his presidential run.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like David is going to sue.

"In my view, the elected officials participating in this rogue behavior have violated their oath of office and willfully violated their trust and responsibilities to the citizens that they serve. In my view, that amounts to malfeasance. The appropriate steps require charges to be filed. If found guilty, accessories to the crimes should also be charged.

***It is my intention, as a defender of the citizens of Clark County, to dispatch the legal resources available to pursue these matters.***

Flags in Clark County should be flying at half-mast as the citizens of Clark County have been illegally sold out by these tyrants. This shall not stand, not on my watch! Will you stand with me?"

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 8:52 a.m

kn dalai: You don't see or won't acknowledge the irony of Comm. Madore objecting to a violation of policy or procedure on the part of the CTRAN staff?

JohnK — September 29, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingt @ 9:11 am: I know. I know. I am absolutely pathetic. Just lead me out to the south 40 and abandon me. :)

You keep me posted on national politics. I help do that for you on local issues.

If all this drama gets people to mail in their ballots, so much the better, eh? What a pathetic turnout Clark County had in the primary.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye @ 9:34 am: I think your prediction will become fact. Similar suits against light rail and transportation projects in Oregon have been dismissed by judges and thrown out.

No one can say Clark County is boring politically. Fascinating stuff.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK — September 29, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.

Yes JohnK, I do understand that. I have my own ideas on the Benton hire, anyway a lawsuit never materialized, and I think that it's because there was nothing there to go with.

The Ctran actions may be a very different matter. I think it is more than just a question of violating procedure. In any event, the CRC will have a very significant impact around here for a very long time and can not be reversed.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"You keep me posted on national politics. I help do that for you on local issues."

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 9:36 a.m.

An avatarial union that benefits everyone! If only DC would take notice.

On another matter, KOIN 6 news did a great tribute to Rob Figley last night. Worthy of a look if one could find it. (archived?)

A person who no doubt made our community a better place. Among others, Jim Moeller & Jim Mains contributed to the service.

And yet on another note; I'm amazed (yet expected:) at the Madorites accusing others of ramrodding. You gotta love it! At least (for the time being) Madore's antics and underhandedness are being kept at the local level. His brand of hypocrisy & self righteous cancer spreads all too quickly on the national scene. But a national scene is what I believe is in his sights.

At least that's what God told me the other day.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Seems more oppose the ACA/Obamacare than support it. And about 30% polled STILL don't know enough about the law to have an opinion.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/27/poll-more-oppose-obamacare-than-affordable-care-act/

Here's the CNBC poll they refer to. Overall, we're pretty pessimistic about the future.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/171168485/CNBC-All-America-Economic-Survey-results-September-26-2013

A couple of interesting points. They don't present a graph, so we have only two income groupings compared to show favor for the plan - below $30K and $30-50K. The latter group likes the plan less. Logically, as income increases up to a certain point, and your subsidy decreases and your cost for a plan goes up, that dislike of the plan should increase. At a certain point one will make enough money that the cost no longer has much impact on their bottom line; at that point I suspect favor for the plan rises.

Only one person claims to have gotten insurance in the past year, and credits the ACA for this. Does this mean the great numbers of previously uninsurable aren't there? Or does it support the idea that the tradeoff for including these people was to allow the companies to raise their prices? Hard to say, because there is a series of questions that show wages have remained stagnant, while the cost of everything (to include the health insurance) has risen.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

I don't know what to say. I no longer smoke, and there's no pizza in the fridge.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Assuming Comm Madore follows through on his threat to sue, wouldn't it be appropriate for to recuse himself from CTRAN or Clark County matters potentially impacted by his lawsuit? As a Board member, he would have access to confidential legal matters as well as providing policy direction to the CTRAN or CC attorneys.

It's hard to imagine the law or the Bar Association allowing such an obvious conflict.

JohnK — September 29, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 29, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

Not sure of any point you are trying to make. roger. Hear (read) this.

ObamaCare is the law of the land. It is the law of the land. It is the law of the land.

It's not going away. It's not going away. It's not going away.

The right has done all they can to keep people ill informed, and the left haven't messaged very well.

All your doom and gloom is purely speculative, as with much of your opinion concerning light rail.

Look at it this way, both are happening. As a Monday morning quarterback, you'll always have the option to punt.

"while the cost of everything (to include the health insurance) has risen."

This is what I mean. Skewed messaging. The rates are climbing, (and of course will continue to do so, the nature of things) but slower than before the act was put into place.

Remember, health care was to take up 40% of our GDP by 2018 if nothing was done. (rising costs are a big reason REPUBLICANS introduced the idea of the individual mandate to begin with)

ObamaCare is here to stay. It is law. Sealed by the SCOTUS. The American people voted on this issue less than a year ago.

Change is hard for many, but indeed, change has come to America. Imagine, now we're up to snuff (somewhat) with third world countries on health care.

A great accomplishment indeed. And if this turns out to be terrible, then elect politicians to the majority (to include the White House) to get it repealed.

Till then, enjoy the fact that millions of Americans can now obtain affordable health care, and will quit using Emergency rooms for care visits. This alone will bend the cost curve dramatically.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK: Good points. Not only Madore has access to that confidential insider info, but his own personal assistant does. I never would have given the green light to that hire, as she is so politically tied to him. It is a legal mess and the taxpayers can add that to our bill. Madore also cannot ask Chris Horne, CC Commission legal counsel, to interfere with or sue C-Tran. Tomorrow, you can bet Chris will be the first visit on Madore's calendar. Madore is not going to be happy with what Horne tells him.

I have watched Madore argue legal points with attorneys far more knowledgeable than he during meetings. He just won't let go and interprets law without any legal background.

In the end, Madore will cost Clark County much more in legal defense fees than he ever promised to save.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Narcissistic lil scheister, that Madore, isn't he? Not too bright outside of his own biz either.
I think he bit off more than he can swallow this time around.

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

You are an idealist, while I'm a cynic or a pragmatist - take your choice.

If people can't (or won't) afford it, they won't buy it. We're just naturally a nation of law breakers. It's against the law to smoke weed, talk on cell phones while driving, shoot off fireworks outside a certain window, buy goods in Oregon and fail to file and pay Washington sales tax, fail to register your car within 30 days of moving here from Oregon, wash your car in your own driveway, etc etc etc.

Once again, we have priorities. Housing, food on the table, clothing, car payments, TV and internet service, and a whole host of other things rate higher on most peoples scale of priorities that having health insurance. When wages are stagnant and the cost of everything is going up - some things slip. And that hospital emergency room will still be there, because they won't start turning people away.

And there's a growing thought process that if the IRS can't even keep up with the regular tax cheats, they'll never be able to keep up with the new ones this law will create.

If the government hadn't been so free with handing out exemptions, and if they hadn't deferred the business requirement to 2015, then perhaps people would be more willing to comply.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And as for the new CRC, we're nowhere near being able to call that a done deal. Oregon would be fiscally imprudent to the extreme to pursue their go it alone option without a guarantee that 1) Congress will pass a budget that includes enough highway money to provide a full $900 mil TIFIA loan; 2) We continue buying $70 billion in T-notes from banks every month to keep interest rates down; and 3) A binding agreement is entered into that will allow Oregon to toll the I205 bridge if too many ungrateful Washington commuters elect to divert and stay on that highway.

Tomorrow's Oregon special legislative session will be most interesting. If Gov Kitz has too much trouble getting his current agenda passed, then maintaining the CRC support from the regular session (which several were strong armed into voting for) is also in doubt.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And on that note, I'm off to get some shopping done before the storms return.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"You are an idealist, while I'm a cynic or a pragmatist - take your choice."

roger — September 29, 2013 at 10:38 a.m

Really? Part of the problem with this national conversation is the right not accepting the ACA as the law of the land and believing they can repeal it.

I guess that makes Bachman, Blackburn (yourself?) and others pragmatists? (cynics maybe)

I guess it's the material you use when making your box like construct.

I think living outside the box, dealing with current reality is reasonable.

It's narrowed thinking such as "you are this and I am that" that is at the heart of political societal dysfunction.

-

How about accepting reality and moving forward?

On second thought, you might be right. I must be an idealist. :)

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On the eve of a government shutdown, Congress has taken the day off.

Hungover?

"I think he bit off more than he can swallow this time around."

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.

You know luvit, I'm really biting my tongue on this one! In the interest of keeping it somewhat clean, I'll continue to clench! :))

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jayne has made it official. He's a complete @!#$%&#&.

I give him 6 months (hopefully sooner, we deserve better than this Columbian) before he's back on the sports beat. Maybe Loo water will obtain his services. As bad as Loo is, it would be a marked improvement for his blog.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"He's a complete @!#$%&#&."

Just wanted to clarify, I don't know this guy and was speaking to his biased and unimaginative writes each week. (although this week marks him officially coming out of his RW closet)

Since Jayne thinks a government shutdown could be a good thing, I can only take away he's another Bagger with a keyboard. No less, no more. Other than he gets a check from the C.

And in this light, a complete @!#$%&#&.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Jon Huntsman is also on the MTP panel. I'll listen with open ears to what he has to say. He earned some respect in his presidential run.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Wonder what the political landscape would be now had Huntsman gotten the RNC nod. Conservative on issues, but not the dublicity. That alone doomed him early on. He didn't use adjectives as a means of prevarication... signs of a clean fighter.

jacjak — September 29, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal


Keep it clean , nails. I had a few thoughts when I wrote it, but nah...
Jacjak: Huntsman is an intellectual who can think. That alone ensured he would fare poorly during the Republican primaries. I thought he was the best of their bunch. While disagreeing with a few of his social issues, I would have supported him.

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 29, 2013 at noon

If Huntsman would have gotten the nod, I think we would have witnessed this current dysfunction on the right happen sooner than later. And that might have been a good thing. Maybe this type of bickering and government shutdown hostage taking ploy would have come and gone by now.

If the right had a more agreeable platform, and their vitriol and reasoning were more objective, I could easily live with a Jon Huntsman as President. (if Congressional power was balanced)

I believe much of this disdain for ObamaCare, is mired in Right Wing hate for this black Kenyan born racist socialist/communist anti-Christ America hating president who happens to be serving his second term.

Rep. David Scott (D-GA) brought this up (as motivation from the right) on the floor last night and was repeatedly rebuked by the House Chair. It was refreshing to see someone tell it like it is in this arena.

I think in time, a relatively short time, due to demographics and public outcry, we'll see a major shift in our political structure, with republicans splintering off into 2 or 3 separate factions allowing Dems to control the vote.

I don't think that's a good thing necessarily, as we need checks and balances. But in these current times, at least for awhile (until Dems screw us by having too much power for too long) it's the best alternative.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 12:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Keep it clean , nails. I had a few thoughts when I wrote it, but nah..."

Of course luvit, as always.

Although I think I'll send him some Scope for Christmas.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I could have considered a vote for Huntsman also, had the arena of debate contained only governance, and not religion or moral judgements and turpitudes reflected by those quilty of both. Obama idealistically spent too much time (and also that much bespoken source of power - political capital) in figuring out there was no compromise available during his term of office, or maybe even in politics altogether. So while he gave away all but the bathwater in learning this, he used up vast amounts of his own political capital, including mine. But, hell would have to freeze solid before I'd give McCain so much as a glass of water on a hot day, no less a vote.

jacjak — September 29, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


However, with Huntsman we'd have missed the spectacle and drama that was Sarah Palin.

jacjak — September 29, 2013 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC-There is a man's game on the Fox network. :) The Seahawks have mounted an incredible comeback and have taken the game into OT.

Soccer???

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 29, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.

"...don't give up on me."

I never have Holy!

The weather is supposed to get nasty again, and pretty quick. Good day for a game, some warm eats and forum postings.

___

jacjak- Ya betcha shes still a fightin'! And to think, almost a breath away from arguably the most important job on Earth.

///Sarah Palin to GOP: ‘Woman up’ and fight Obamacare///

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin sent a strong message to Republicans who are waffling on the defunding of Obamacare: “Woman up.”

Mrs. Palin, a tea party darling, said in an opinion article for Breitbart: “Woman up, stand your ground and fight like a girl.”

Specifically, Mrs. Palin said Republicans should rally around Sen. Ted Cruz, who’s leading the defunding charge, and stop criticizing his efforts.

“Open your eyes, America,” Mrs. Palin said. “When the full reality of Obamacare strikes home, we’ll thank God that principled leaders like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee took a stand to stop it in its tracks.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/23/sarah-palin-gop-woman-and-fight-obamacare/#ixzz2gPQn1QPb
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 28, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.

Thanks for the information, but I don't buy from those stores. Mostly, my garden is made up of native vegetation, from seeds or seed pods I've collected or from guaranteed organic growers. I stopped buying the junk you speak of...about the time I became a stream steward with Clark Public Utilities. That's been a while. The bees seem to like my yard every year.

Luvit...have you ever heard of edible landscaping??? That's my focus. I have a few ornamentals...heritage perenniels, herbs I've grown most my adult life at the home I reside and of course, fruit trees, shrubs and plants and vegetables. People think because they have a small yard, they can't produce anything. You'd be surprised at what a person can grow in a small space.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 28, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.

Jacjak, there's responsible handling of genetics and there's the irresponsible laboratories working on genetic mutation. Always something to keep in mind. Why is it that Monsanto has to drench their seeds in RoundUp? You ever hear of the term...Frankenfood??? There's reasons why so many countries in Europe, Asia and Australia refuse to allow High Fructose Corn Syrup and Lab-created MSG into their countries.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 29, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.

Actually, holycrud...I have a life away from the forum. Had much to do before the next round of windy, stormy weather hits. Nice attempt in forum humor, though.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Seahawks pulled in another win. Hopefully Michael Bennett is doing okay. That was a nasty, nasty hit he took!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.

It sounds as though he'll be okay.

///Hospital tests indicate Seahawks DE Michael Bennett will be fine///

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23913441/seahawks-de-michael-bennett-suffers-scary-injury

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 2:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding Madore's protest...

He might have a case in his favor.

On August 15, 2011, Mayor Leavitt Recused himself from a vote on City Council due to the fact that his employer had a contract with TriMet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v;=pJAK-AY88ks

This last vote as a member of C-Tran's board of directors, he should have done the same thing but didn't. What's the hurry???

Showing Favoritisms??? Naughty, naughty, Mayor Leavitt. I'd sure like to know if he'll get a sizable bump in his holiday bonus this year!!!

Sorry guys...I don't quite trust the commissioner 99% of the time but this 1%...I have to agree with him. Mayor Leavitt has screwed himself over this time. He just gave Madore fuel for the fire...and it's a biggie.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 2:52 p.m.

Thanks, Nails. I'd be more concerned of a neck injury, the way it snapped as it did. GEEZ that's a tough sport...and it seems to be getting rougher every year!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 29, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.

Have you ever thought for one measly second that people have relatives and friends who are adversely affected by Oregon payroll taxes who live in Washington State??? I don't work in Portland but my family members do...and their spouses work in Vancouver! The ones who work in Portland cannot find any positions in their trade which they were educated...you know, the importance of education. You've said it yourself in your grand and glorious expose' about what needs to be done here in Vancouver. So what do you expect family members such as mine to do Holyturdola??? Get a divorce and have one live in Portland and the Other in Vancouver??? The jobs AREN'T HERE!!!

Sometimes, you are so dense!!!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO, you guys crack me up on the "genetically modified foods". You do realize that corn isn't a real or natural crop, don't you? If corn isn't planted by humans, it doesn't naturally occur. And yet, it's one of the biggest crops worldwide. The closest thing related to corn is teosinte. Look it up.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On my post @ 2:53pm, the YouTube link failed. Try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJAK-A...

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I don't grow corn.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye...if...and that is a big IF I ever eat corn, it is usually non-GMO, non-roundup corn in the form of cornmeal for my baking needs. There's genetics and there's poisoning the people through genetic modification through lab experiments and use of chemicals and chemical alterations. That's two different routes.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.

You know, if Leavitt would have recused himself, he would have just replaced himself with someone who would have voted his way. Madore complains that Leavitt is biased but there he sat with a big sticker that said "CRC" with a big red line through it. Now that's an open mind.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, your comment at 3:10 pm is exactly on the mark. The problem is...Leavitt didn't. He took a chance and blew it and you'd better bet your bottom dollar that Madore will take it and run with it. I believe the vote should be null and void. I believe it wasn't right for C-Tran to pass over decisions to Oregon without Clark County Voters making the decision. It was obvious they did not take into account the fact that the people of Clark County said NO to funding the Loo operations and maintenance, when they did their vote.

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Are tolls imposed unilaterally by one state on interstate roads at interstate lines constitutional?

Article I, section 8, clause 2.

Article I, section 9, clause 6.

I imagine the question’s already been asked and answered before, but it seems to me that there may be something there about ALSO tolling the Glenn Jackson Bridge. A question here of impeding interstate travel.

Here’s a recent case from Virginia. The circumstances are largely different and it’s a state constitutional question instead of interstate, but still….

[http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/judge-midtown-tunnel-toll-deal-unconstitutional][1]

[1]: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/judge-midtown-tunnel-toll-deal-unconstitutional

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:01 p.m.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:01 p.m.

--

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.

Multiples. Just sayin'.

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:23 p.m

All that proves is that we AREN'T the same person. Best news ever.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It’s not a question of bias alone. If it was then Madore shouldn’t be voting on any of this. Neither should the rest of them. It’s a question of bias for personal gain. Leavitt’s private sector employer is on the Trimet payroll.

There’s impropriety and then there’s the appearance of impropriety. Leavitt fails that test no matter what.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

Amen to THAT!!!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.

Good observation.

On another note...if any improvement is done on either interstate where federal funding pays a big chunk, we're guaranteed tolls. Check out the link below and read the segment on "Investment - tolling."

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/map21/summaryinfo.cfm

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:23 p.m

"All that proves is that we AREN'T the same person. Best news ever."

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

Not really. But then I never doubted such. Don't tell me you needed validation! :)

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.

Being a trained professional in transcription has it's benefits. Fast typing for one!

Never fear...I'm out for the rest of the day. Sorry for the multiple comments clumped together. I know it gets quite redundant sometimes, but I was trying to answer and respond accordingly, then sign out for the rest of the day.

..

Observations from yesterday's storm...Next to the theater at Vancouver Mall is a group of trees next to the road. It looked like arborists pruned hundreds of branches...some 30' long. On the other side of the road, there was yellow "danger" tape preventing people from walking under the trees.

BiMart in Orchards has a tree with a major branch broken and laying on the ground. Branches down everywhere. The road sewer drains looked pretty good, though...except for the one at VanMallDrive and Thurston Way (next to Red Robin). Water was standing in the road, there.

A funny but serious note...We were at Home Depot this morning and my husband noticed there were hardly any cars in the parking lot. I joked and said "about all you'll see is people getting chainsaws, roofing materials and gutters..." referencing the clean up of yesterday's storm.

We passed by the cash register...men buying rolled roofing paper and chains for their chainsaws. Didn't see the gutters, though.

Stay safe, folks! I'm outta here!

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Sorry for the multiple comments clumped together."

goldenoldie — September 29, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.

If that's a sin then we're both going to Hell. Clump away.

___

///THE KOOL-AID CAUCUS///

Voters in survey after survey overwhelmingly say Republicans will be to blame for any shutdown. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has repeatedly said that all GOP attempts to attach Obamacare changes to a government funding bill will be rejected out of hand. President Barack Obama has consistently promised a veto.

Yet it hasn't penetrated. House Republicans' inability to recognize the same reality as voters and their opponents has made it virtually impossible to come to a deal.

"We just need to stand firm. I think we may get Democrats on this," said Rep. Tom Massie (R-Ky.).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/29/house-republicans-obamacare_n_4013595.html

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Steve Stuart's response is up. Again, the adult in the room. Excerpt:

"Light rail is not mentioned in Revelations, and is not the Devil. Nor is it our Savior. It is a hybrid mass transit solution used in many cities around the U.S and Globe, that has pluses and minuses. Please feel free and argue those pluses and minuses with me, but if you're only interested in spreading fear and anger, while attacking my integrity and intellect, save your breath."

langenthal — September 29, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal: I rely on you to post these things! I don't have access to his FB, due to his privacy settings.

Good response, Steve!

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Commissioner Steve Stuart
2 hours ago
The Decision

- No C-Tran funds to build Light Rail Transit to Clark College.
- Division of operation and maintenance costs based on the proportionate share from the state line north (instead of paying from Jantzen Beach north).
- Specific protection from any TriMet unfunded pension and medical benefit costs.
- Specific protection from any TriMet general admin and overhead costs.
- Cost overruns and funding deficits to be primarily shouldered by TriMet.
- No increase in C-Tran taxes. Operations and maintenance paid for with rider fares and money that only exists if this project happens (sales tax from project, park-n-ride commercial leases, savings from routes dropping riders off at Clark College instead of Expo Center, with future revenue potential from park-n-ride stalls and premium fare).

Those are the terms the C-Tran Board agreed to last Thursday, in a contract that was signed Friday between C-Tran and TriMet. Going into the week, I didn't think those terms were possible. Even though our Executive Director had been tasked in May with talking terms with TriMet, the details hadn't been worked out. Plus, the terms we wanted - a state line split, overruns being shouldered by TriMet, and a recognition by TriMet that we won't help pay any unfunded liabilities they have -were tough terms for us to get. But most details did get worked out (with time between now and 2017 to finalize) and were very good for the people we represent.

The timing was tight, with Oregon's Legislature likely discussing funding the CRC in a special session. Funding for the operations and maintenance of the LRT component was important to the OR Legislature, Governor Kitzhaber, and Treasurer Wheeler. So we needed to send a message, take action, one way or the other, on Thursday.

I studied the detailed terms and financials from Tuesday afternoon until Thursday evening. C-Tran staff and consultants did amazing work. My questions were substantially answered. A Yes vote meant supporting moving forward to build a needed new I-5 Bridge with more lanes, emergency shoulders, bike/ped upgrades, upgraded freight interchanges in Oregon (and SR-14 in WA), and a light rail project that would cost no C-Tran tax money to build, and no new C-Tran taxes to operate and maintain. In 2008, I didn't think that was possible. I do now, so I voted Yes.

langenthal — September 29, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Commissioner Steve Stuart
2 hours ago
Vitriolic Hyperbole

When I got up today, there was light in the sky, though the rain was definitely falling hard, making it darker than usual. Yesterday, the same. Friday, no rain falling, but nevertheless the sun had risen in the East as it has every day of my 42 years. Yep, just another day. There was no Revelations apocalypse after the C-Tran meeting, I wasn't given 30 pieces of silver, nor did some dark beast come to collect for the soul I supposedly sold. Yet I was told that would happen, was charged with accepting those, and was accused of bargaining with.

People wondered why I didn't say anything during the C-Tran meeting, especially given my misgivings about a potential O&M; contract, and my 9-year involvement in this project. It's because there was never a conversation to be had. Starting with public comment, and continuing with the Board, there was no air left in the room for any real discussion.

Now, I get it, and have for some time. People are passionate about light rail. It brings up issues of urbanism, safety, public subsidies, land use, and many others. The feelings on both sides are intense. I've had countless conversations with people on both sides, and been involved in hundreds of hearings where they've spoken. But those people weren't who took the air out of the room. It was elected officials throwing baseless accusations around, rattling their sabers with vitriolic hyperbole, telling us that we must be stupid or corrupt if we don't agree with them, who ended debate before it ever began. I'm tremendously disappointed in those who participated in creating toxicity eerily similar to what's happening at the Federal level. And not coincidentally, our Federal Congress' approval rating is rightly below 20% because of that dysfunction.

Light rail is not mentioned in Revelations, and is not the Devil. Nor is it our Savior. It is a hybrid mass transit solution used in many cities around the U.S and Globe, that has pluses and minuses. Please feel free and argue those pluses and minuses with me, but if you're only interested in spreading fear and anger, while attacking my integrity and intellect, save your breath.

langenthal — September 29, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — September 29, 2013 at 7:16 p.m.

Thanks for that. The only heartburn I have with the current agreement is the end of the line is Clark College. Other than that, they did a GREAT job. Thanks Steve.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thank you, langenthal.

When he does not get his way, Madore throws a tantrum that rivals any my two year old grandson throws.

The difference? My grandson does not get reinforced for them. Madore? He has a gaggle of fawning admirers, at the ready to cheer his poor behavior on and encourage more. :)

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:10 p.m.

Manthou, I got onto Stuart's FB page with no problem, and I'm pretty sure that I'm not on his friends list. Although, I've got nothing against the guy. Seems likeable and inviting to the public at the commissioner hearings. It may be something else with your computer. Don't know.

Just the same, there's questions about just what has happened here, and Stuart is not without fault.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The only heartburn I have with the current agreement is the end of the line is Clark College. Other than that, they did a GREAT job. Thanks Steve.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 7:25 p.m

Perhaps the end of line at Clark Collage is like new construction builds; phase one, phase two, etc. Getting it here is phase one, then extend north, east, and west, in phases.

Remember when Portland only had trolley's and electric buses run on overhead wires? I do, and I don't think I'm all *that* old. Things get phased in and phased out; it does not happen fast but it does happen.

jacjak — September 29, 2013 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: Could you please post the link to Stuart's FB page? That might help me, luddite that I am. :)

Well, I assume some attorneys are going to go over this thing with a fine tooth comb, especially if David Madore is willing to foot the bill. We'll get some answers, but it won't be soon.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal, et.al.

What Stuart says in his second post, from two hours ago, is that Hamm's proposal sounded good, and he considered getting a supporting message to the Oregon legislature more important than standing by his previous commitment to honoring a policy that says any CRC funding for HCT will go to a vote of the people.

What Stuart says in hid first post, from three hours ago, is that he was tired of Madore and Mielke and their shenanigans, and this was his way of getting back at them. He says argue as we will about the merits of LRT, but don't bother attacking his integrity. No worry, Mr. Stuart - You have none. You traded that in to spite Madore.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

https://www.facebook.com/commissionersteve?fref=ts

If that doesn't work, go to facebook and type Steve Stuart in the search block. His County Commissioner page will be the first up.

roger — September 29, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I just got into his FB page also. Quite an interesting read. Naturally, some ranting by Carolyn Crain and Robert Dean.

Glad he said what he said.

luvithere — September 29, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link to Stuart's page. That is the one I was on, but it only lets me look at his Favorites page. If I try to go anywhere else, it gives me the sign in page for FB.

I don't have a FB page. I am a dinosaur.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou --- Contrast and compare with Madore's two Facebook pages today. He explains blocking people too.

Clark County Citizens for Good Governance [Ron Goodman, et al] has been keeping with it all day.

--------------------------------------
[Re: Facebook: I took my birth month and initial. Voila! FB identity. I don't link it to anything and it's locked down. I've posted to Badass Teachers Association BATS and locally a very few times.]

I'm mostly anti Common Core, by the way. Appalled by what is going on in so many districts around the country. Teachers are expected to teach from a script prepared primarily by Pearson. Curriculum is not appropriate for age & development of students and tests that are flawed and too many even in kindergarten. Teachers who haven't been activists are learning abt corporate money, influence, ALEC, Michelle Rhee, etc, etc. Arne Duncan is so in over his head. The weird thing is that Phyllis Schlafly and the tin foil hat crowd are also opposed - Agenda 21, etc.

Diane Ravitch's latest book, Reign of Error, #10 on NY Times list so there is some hope of reaching teachers and parents.

langenthal — September 29, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the info langenthal. Well stated Stuart is always the adult in the room.

___

"...but don't bother attacking his integrity. No worry, Mr. Stuart - You have none. You traded that in to spite Madore."

Pretty tough language roger.

Anymore we throw public barbs at good people, like kids throwing rocks at each other. It must be really hard being a public figure in this political climate. Maybe you'll get lucky and find out first hand. :)

___

Anyone check out Dick's truck? Madore loves it. Imagine if his name was the one being trashed in this manner.

Seems like everything on the right is about suing someone for something nowadays. Madore's FB page is loaded with sycophants screaming for legal. What a state of affairs the politically motivated religious right has gotten our community into.

http://couv.com/issues/sohnsign

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just what does Stuart mean by the words “fear and anger”.

The anger part is pretty obvious, but it’s hardly restricted to one side. For example, Stuart is the only one who walked out of a room uttering expletive delete-eds.

And just what is the fear part? You've all seen the predictions of the pro CRCer's about the bridge falling into the river, and the predictions of economic chaos without the CRC. And using the "obsolete" rating numbers without explaining what that meant. If Stuart's spin on things is your idea of yourselves being fair and balanced - then you're doing a pretty bad job of that.

------------------------------------------------------------

Manthou, I won't link to pages that require a sign in. If you haven't got a FB account, then that's the problem. I just typed in Stuart's name, and he came up first on the list of options.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I see that the Firefighter's Union and Clark County Association of Realtors have endorsed the following: Leavitt, Burkman, Topper, Ogle.

They claim this city is more than one single issue and that the four above get that.

Jeanne Stewart is not endorsed by any of the unions.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Who on here can vote for Vancouver City Council races?

I, obviously, am one.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"When he does not get his way, Madore throws a tantrum that rivals any my two year old grandson throws.

The difference? My grandson does not get reinforced for them. Madore? He has a gaggle of fawning admirers, at the ready to cheer his poor behavior on and encourage more. :)"

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 7:32 p.m.

manthou- Something we have in common. I have a two year old granddaughter. (who btw, is the most adorable 2 yr old girl on the planet!)

My daughter tells me she's going through he terrible 2's with tantrum throwing. But around my wife and I she's an angel. There's a lesson here somewhere, but not sure what it is. :) Perhaps she's the smartest 2 yr old on the planet as well!

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: I can access Madore's, so it also must be a setting he uses that allows us non FB'ers to take a peek.

Thx.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Oh, don't get me started on adorable grandchildren. Mine is in California, though, and it kills me not to be able to see him more often.

manthou — September 29, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I can vote VCC races. I might go with the Union recommend. Sounds decent considering the options.

2 Term Tim can fundraise off the ridiculous vitriol he's dealt daily.

Looking at Madore's FB page is a bit depressing. Not only do the bulk claim to be God fearing, but adult as well.

I hope this community has hit bottom and we'll start moving up, but I doubt it. Not with these characters. If they're not anything else, they're relentless.

Kinda like fruit fly's I suppose.

Who had that cure all again??

We are in for years of "LOO RAIL & BOONDOGGLE speak. I need an app that will block these terms!

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just what are the tantrums that Madore throws? Hmmm?

Anyway, here's the article in the Reflector that discusses the ethics complaints against both Madore and Leavitt. It brings up the issue of Leavitt recusing himself at first but then reversing course for later votes.

The decision on these complaints is made by the C-tran attorney.

You'll note that Madore asked for the results of the investigation into his own ethics violations be made public, while Leavitt refused.

"Quintana said a person who is the subject of an ethics investigation has the option to have such a report withheld or released." -- [http://www.thereflector.com/news/article_95a97618-0917-11e3-89dc-0019bb2963f4.html][1]

So what's all of this about Madore being secretive?

[1]: http://www.thereflector.com/news/article_95a97618-0917-11e3-89dc-0019bb2963f4.html

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I might go with the Union recommend. -- nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

AH GEE! No kidding. Surprise, surprise. Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 9:05 p.m.

You always bring a smile. :)

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 10:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 29, 2013 at 7:56 p.m.

Roger, I read both of his posts and I saw nothing about getting back at M&M.; I think you are mistaken.

hawkeye — September 29, 2013 at 10:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


[sure takes awhile for the new format to load]

Never a shortage of rancid Tea in Texas. Must be the water?

///Greg Abbott: 'Without Voter Fraud, Obamacare Would Not Exist'///

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott (R) has a theory as to how Obamacare was able become law, and it places a lot of responsibility on voting at the polls.

Speaking at the Texas Tribune Festival on Saturday, Abbott pointed specifically to the 2008 election of Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.), who won by a few hundred votes. According to the Houston Chronicle, Abbott argued that if it wasn't for elections like this, the Affordable Care Act would have seen a different fate.

“Without voter fraud, Obamacare would not exist,” Abbott said.

Abbott, who launched his 2014 bid for Texas governor in mid-June, has been a leading force behind the state's voter ID law. Immediately after the Supreme Court ruled that a key provision of the landmark Voting Rights Act was unconstitutional, Abbott announced that Texas was moving forward with its strict legislation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/29/greg-abbott-voter-fraud-obamacare_n_4012760.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 29, 2013 at 10:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal



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