Open forum, April 14-20



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Well, it's going to be a beautiful sunny day today, think I'll go to work outside today. My building is coming along and it won't be long before we have tenants (hopefully), time to start sprucing up the outside. Enjoy your day, everyone. After all, this is the beautiful great Northwest, and it's snowing in Denver.

Hawkman — April 14, 2014 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes it's a beautiful spring day. Worked out in the Yard most of yesterday. The sun can really give one some additional motivation.

Nail- Didn't have an opportunity to read your comments from this past week till just now..
I liked your little Metaphoric speech.... Kinda like Obama.. He was also just metaphorically speaking when he said you know those things like the average person will see their insurance cost go down by 2500 a year, that's just a couple $200 Samoles a month or if you want to break it down even more, it's like just a few Bucks a day if $6.66 is just a FEW Bucks, Metaphorically speaking...It's nice to see your premiums didn't change..That I find hard to believe but hey I can only take it for your word...Let's see you became one year older and Obamacare was launched.. Let me look at my Rating Rule.. I put you in as a 60Yr old becasue that's how old I think you are or close too...Then got a rate back from 5 companies.. Hum~~~~Using a common policy for Folks of your gender and such I'm thinking it went up by at least 6% or you changed some of your plan or your employer did. If your a smoker it probably went up by at least double digits...I also assumed you didn't use any of the Obamacare policies or you would have already been touting that...Matter of fact I haven't seen anyone in the basement say they were enrolled into one of the exchanges..We all seen computer literate... According to Reuters Ins premiums will continue to rise about an avg of 6% a year for the foreseeable future.. So in 5 years your monthly premium will have gone up at 30%.. Now that doesn't suggest the cost of Insurance going down..

How can you add 5 million free folks to policies without raising everyone Else's cost to pay for them... HUM As Spock would say "Illogical".. That's what will be getting the Dems in trouble this Fall. They all voted to raise "most" of Americans monthly premiums and that won't sit well come election time. That and the fact WE were LIED too.. No getting around all the LIES... How do you feel voting for someone who truly LIED and Misled the American Voters??? Gotta go and get some work done. Enjoy the weather while it lasts.

vanwadreamer — April 14, 2014 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Am I the only one that received a 'public document, official business' letter from Rep. Herrera Beutler saying 'Thank you for contacting me regarding our foreign policy toward Isreal'? She also appreciates me taking the time to share my thoughts with her.

Humm, for some reason I do occasionally get mail from both parties even tho I'm a registered Dem, but never have I written anyone regarding Isreal, especially Herrera Beutler, who I think is mediocre at best in representing the 3rd District.

Can only assume this letter is somehow related to her vote on the U.S.- Isreal Strategic Partnership Act. The letter is dated April 3rd and the vote was April 5th. Perhaps she knew there'd be those who'd be unhappy with the part of the “major strategic partner” designation that allows Israelis to travel to the U.S. without visas, or the part that gives Israel advanced combat aircraft and military tanker transports. Maybe she did her own version of preliminary post-reaction control. Tho the vote was 410-1, and doubt she'd be worried about reactions anyway. She votes party line so how she may vote is never a mystery. I find the letter curious so wondered if she sent one to everyone in the 3rd, no matter what the party.

jacjak — April 14, 2014 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JJ, I didn't get that one but I've received a few from her. Once, I complained to her that she doesn't listen to the real voters with her "coffee" meetings. The only ones that go are the ones she invites which means they are on her Republican't donor list. Then I got a few paper letters from her and she decided it was OK to give my name and address to the GOP to be used at their discretion. Then I started getting crap from everyone on that side of the room, wanting money and bad mouthing all the Dems. I finally had enough and sent her another letter telling her to knock it off and to get my name OFF their lists. So far, it's working but I suspect it's only because it isn't election time yet. Most of the time when I see one of those letters it goes into the recycling, unopened. She's probably just patting herself on the back again for something she had no business being involved in.

Hawkman — April 14, 2014 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I thought everyone got mailings from Jaime.

What I get is all the environmental mailings - the Audubon Society, something from Robert Redford railing about something in Alaska, a Save the Wolves group, and a lot of similar stuff. Probably my OPB membership? -- I guess they naturally assume if I send a few bucks that direction I must be a liberal.

roger — April 14, 2014 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes, leave no natural phenomena unmolested. One can always use soothing completely natural/harmless/scientific to one's advantage.

Complete gaga-ness.

It really must be in the water.

luvithere — April 14, 2014 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"something", not soothing.

yeesh, spelling... soothing is my tea I am drinking.

luvithere — April 14, 2014 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ah yes, John the hypocrit Hagee... the list is looong...
Let's see...
he married the woman he cheated on his wife with...
said the catholic church is responsible for all anti-semitism...
said New Orleans was so wicked that God just had todestroy it...
John McCain loves him...(not sure why that matters but there it is)

Interesting how some of icky info sticks. Probably has something to do with being a bit of a cult survivor that thinks the m.o. of all these pastor predators are fairly the same. Sooner or later they make the news...

jacjak — April 14, 2014 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 14, 2014 at 8:10 p.m.

Yup!! It's the beginning of "the end of times". And if you put a little more money in the basket I'm sure we can hold it off for a few more months. It's called a "blood moon" so give till it bleeds!!!!

Hawkman — April 14, 2014 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, LOL. I forgot about the money stuff. So true.
Interesting tidbits there, jacjak. Especially the McCain one.

Watching AC/DC concert in Buenos Aires. Man, these guys are good.

luvithere — April 14, 2014 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, Manthou..... (or anybody)

Have we heard from the M&M; boys about the "next" commissioner? Seriously, I meant to say, has Madore made up his mind who he wants to argue with so he can tell Meilke who to vote for?

Any ideas how long this might take, I know they have 90 days, but honestly, don't you think they could make a decision in 5?

Hawkman — April 15, 2014 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — April 14, 2014 at 1:38 p.m.

Yes. If it doesn't fit into a bias narrative then it must be hard to believe. Incredible your rates rose 30 some odd %. Of course we never hear about those subsidies to bring costs down. This health care speak is so damn boring. :) If you are in the insurance biz, I don't envy you. And hopefully your extreme bias for this President and his policies don't spill over into the quality of service you possibly provide.

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-U.S. right wing extremists more deadly than jihadists-

[In fact, since 9/11 extremists affiliated with a variety of far-right wing ideologies, including white supremacists, anti-abortion extremists and anti-government militants, have killed more people in the United States than have extremists motivated by al Qaeda's ideology. According to a count by the New America Foundation, right wing extremists have killed 34 people in the United States for political reasons since 9/11. (The total includes the latest shootings in Kansas, which are being classified as a hate crime).

By contrast, terrorists motivated by al Qaeda's ideology have killed 23 people in the United States since 9/11.

(Although a variety of left wing militants and environmental extremists have carried out violent attacks for political reasons against property and individuals since 9/11, none have been linked to a lethal attack, according to research by the New America Foundation.)

Moreover, since 9/11 none of the more than 200 individuals indicted or convicted in the United States of some act of jihadist terrorism have acquired or used chemical or biological weapons or their precursor materials, while 13 individuals motivated by right wing extremist ideology, one individual motivated by left-wing extremist ideology, and two with idiosyncratic beliefs, used or acquired such weapons or their precursors.]

Read More @

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk: The building looks fantastic, by the way! Such a beautiful and functional upgrade! I, too, cannot wait to see it occupied.

Madore is seeking input from the public on who the commissioners should choose to replace Steve Stuart among the three options: Pridemore, Love-Parker, Barnes. He also is seeking questions from the public to pose to them (One of his FB followers suggests this broad gem: What do you think of C-Tran? Another, better one I saw: How do you intend to protect separation of powers?)

So, I hope all my Forum friends take advantage of this invitation, no matter how much you might distrust Madore's ability to digest what you might suggest with an open mind. Mr. Madore's email is: I'd CC his pal Mielke, too:

manthou — April 15, 2014 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — April 15, 2014 at 6:34 a.m.

I think they'll stretch this decision out for quite awhile. If not for anything else, they enjoy the attention.


On the subject of religion. These guys vote. So important to get out and make our voices heard in these mid term elections. (Whatever happened to "compassionate conservatism". In truth it never existed)

-Pastor Kevin Swanson Slams Honey Maid's 'Wholesome' Ad, Compares Being Gay To Murder, Cannibalism-

Nabisco's controversial Honey Maid commercial depicting a same-sex couple is continuing to spark the ire of a number of conservative pundits.

As Right Wing Watch is reporting, Pastor Kevin Swanson of Colorado is the latest to take the company to task over the "Wholesome" graham cracker ad campaign.

In a Generations Radio broadcast, Swanson went as far as to compare homosexuality to "axe murder" and cannibalism, before predicting that Nabisco was "going to lose business" in the wake of the campaign.

"When you come down to things like axe murder or homosexuality and you say, ‘We’re really going to promote it and we’re going to encourage everybody in America to engage in this or at least support this thing,’ there will be people on the other side who will take an adamantly opposed position to your support of axe murdering or homosexuality," he said. "They will be intolerant -- they will be very intolerant of that which is evil, like axe murdering."

Swanson, whose opposition to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) rights is well-established, didn't stop there, suggesting that the company might follow up the ad with a clip promoting bestiality.

"Maybe they had another family where a dog is the wife with a human husband," he said, before adding, "Homosexuals love their friends and cannibals love their victims -- they taste good.”

Swanson's remarks follow those of One Million Moms, a right-wing conservative group best known for threatening to boycott JCPenney in 2012 after the retail chain hired Ellen DeGeneres as its spokesperson.

Representatives for One Million Moms slammed Nabisco, saying the company should be ashamed of themselves for "attempt[ing] to normalize sin."

Meanwhile, Honey Maid has responded to the conservative backlash in a particularly unique way.

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Chicago Sun-Times is eliminating public comment for now because it has become so ugly.

manthou — April 15, 2014 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Pastor Kevin Swanson Slams Honey Maid's 'Wholesome' Ad, Compares Being Gay To Murder, Cannibalism-
nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 8:45 a.m.

Murder? Cannibalism? Really?? Why not include human sacrifice, too? Or maybe that'd be too close to ritualistic consecration through communion.... Ackkk!

Not meaning to be disrespectful or distain one's personal belief, it's just a little baffled whenever the accusation of cannibalism is leveled without the 'leveler' being able to see the parallels between our deepest taboos and our most sacred rituals.

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

there are more and more of these nutty folks coming out of the woodwork, and their language is becoming worse. Are they so afraid they are losing this "war"? Are they realizing fewer are buying into their nonsense?
It's all very well to respect their beliefs, even if you were to think it is nothing but superstition, but I want to know where the respect is for those of us who think differently. There really isn't any.

Yea I know, my personal pet peeve, this religious stuff. I am just really tired of their nonsense, their complete disregard for others, their total "I am right" attitude, damned be the rest. I see none of their moderates standing up and telling them to tone it down either.

luvithere — April 15, 2014 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's all very well to respect their beliefs, even if you were to think it is nothing but superstition, but I want to know where the respect is for those of us who think differently. There really isn't any.
luvithere — April 15, 2014 at 11:41 a.m.

Yes, you are right, and my conceptual and philosophical brain that is reading almost continuously knows this is so. There are those (many, many of them) who will never have essence enough to consider others. Can't help that, or them.

So, that leaves the more practical part of myself that says there are also people all around me who do not fit the egocentric or radical disposition. They hold fast to their beliefs without disrespecting me, my philosophies, or trying to proselytize. Empirical evidence confirms this, and mathmatics says those I know are not unique, so it is for them, whether I know them or not that I try to modify insensitive or singular opinions.

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 3:11 p.m.

You are a good person!
Of course, the majority of them are decent people. I just wish they would actually make it known they do not like these nutties. By the way, this goes for all religions, I am not singling any of them out. Just as we always see the criticism of moderate muslims not standing up to radicals, I wish I would see the same criticism when it comes to our own fundies.

luvithere — April 15, 2014 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 8:45 a.m.

Never fear... Doubt there's a way to pry those Honey Maid Despicable Me Honey Grahams or Honey Maid Angry Birds Honey Grahams from all those small, sticky hands anytime in the near future, no matter how many boycotts One Million Moms (whose membership is about 65,000) threatens.

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Neil Young's Pono Kickstarter Raises Over $6 Million

Read more:
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:35 a.m

-U.S. right wing extremists more deadly than jihadists-

[In fact, since 9/11 extremists affiliated with a variety of far-right wing ideologies, including white supremacists, anti-abortion extremists and anti-government militants, have killed more people in the United States than have extremists motivated by al Qaeda's ideology. According to a count by the New America Foundation, right wing extremists have killed 34 people in the United States for political reasons since 9/11.
*(The total includes the latest shootings in Kansas, which are being classified as a hate crime).*

The shooting in Kansas was by a democrat, white supremacist formerly of the KKK, who by the way ran for congress in the 1980's as well as for governor. Hardly can be called *r-wing*.
Might re-check the facts before posting. This smells just like the shooter in the Az Congress womans shooting, when the left jumped on the shooter supposedly being a *r-winger* which later found to not be the fact. So tread lightly before assuming.
People that post assumed fallacies about certains groups, shame, shame on them.

Successful people build each other up. They motivate, inspire, and push each other.
Unsuccessful people just hate, blame, and complain.

Which kind are you?

jasonb — April 15, 2014 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Successful people build each other up. They motivate, inspire, and push each other.
Unsuccessful people just hate, blame, and complain."

"Which kind are you?"

jasonb — April 15, 2014 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

(Tony Robbins look out!)

I try to be the kind that understands what I'm reading. Far right wing ideology isn't necessarily defined by party affiliation.

"Might re-check the facts before posting."

Peter Bergen is your contact @

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 4:16 p.m.

Or out of my hands!!!! I love those things. Graham crackers with p-nut butter and jelly--- fantastic!

Hawkman — April 15, 2014 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 4:16 p.m.

It'll take more than a million mama's to pry my Honey Maid Honey Grahams from my crumby fingers. I like em' with homemade vanilla frosting sandwhiched in between.

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The way I see it, people can worship a rock if they want. But the moment they want to infuse their religious beliefs into mainstream politics, local or national, it becomes something else.

There will come a day when being considered "ungodly" will be the accepted norm. Superstition is better left to those whose "ladders bout' to fall".

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:55 p.m.
You are very optimistic today. Not sure we will see this in our life time. Too much existential anxiety out there.

luvithere — April 15, 2014 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman & nailingit,

My go-to is Nutella, which, since I've 'discovered' it through reading a series of modern witch fiction, seems to go on just about anything, tho Nabisco Nilla Wafers are my fav w/ Nutella. What can I say, I've even tried Pepperidge Farm Goldfish when drinking red wine....

jacjak — April 15, 2014 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I grew up with Nutella, of course. Best way to eat that is straight out of the jar with a spoon. Nothing else.
(only way I can eat peanut butter also)

Which fiction books are you referring to where Nutella was featured?

luvithere — April 15, 2014 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 15, 2014 at 7:16 p.m

Peter Bergen is your contact @

lol (us cnn politics) that says it all.

jasonb — April 16, 2014 at 1:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Graham crackers plain, with a glass of cold milk.

What I grew up eating was a peanut butter, cheese and mayonnaise sandwich. No idea where I learned this combination, but it's still my favorite - but now on that Franz Columbia River dark bread instead of plain white.

roger — April 16, 2014 at 5:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of Hagee and his ilk...

Translation: "Even a man who is pure at heart, and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."


-Christian Pastors Warn 'Blood Moon' Is An Omen Of Armageddon And Second Coming Of Christ-

A string of books have been published surrounding the event, with authors referring to a Bible passage that refers to the moon turning into blood. “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord,” Joel 2:31 says.

In the New Testament, Acts 2:20 echoes the same doom: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord.”


“When you see these signs, the Bible says, lift up your head and rejoice, your redemption draweth nigh,” Hagee said in a sermon, according to the San Antonio Express-News. “I believe that the Heavens are God’s billboard, that He has been sending signals to Planet Earth but we just have not been picking them up.”

Greg Boyd, a pastor of Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minn., called the predictions a waste of time, maybe even bordering on astrology.
“You have an entire population buying into this stuff so no congregation is immune to this,” Boyd said. “It can strike fear into people, which is so unnecessary and wrong.”

nailingit — April 16, 2014 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JJ, I never could get into the Nutella thing. Too much chocolate for me. But when it comes to sandwiches, give me a good wheat bread (Daves Killer 21 grain comes to mind) some natural crunchy p-nut butter and some bread and butter pickle slices. Now that's good eatin'.

Roger, your sandwich just made me cringe a little.

Hawkman — April 16, 2014 at 6:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Enjoying the sandwich talk...

When hubby & I were getting to know each other one of the things we did was serve each other our favorite childhood sandwich. We each concluded the other's sandwich was discusting, and the survival of childhood more precarious than it should have been. His was marshmello whip and peanut butter, tho he also added mustard on it sometimes. Mine was mayo and raisins. See, survival of the fittest, for sure.

The books were a series called 'Modern Witch' by Debora Geary. Nutella cookies replaced energy after using magic...

jacjak — April 16, 2014 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That's some very interesting sandwich combinations you guys have. Eeeew.
Jacjack, what a great idea to have Nutella replace energy after witchiness depletes it. Some real thinking there. I love it.

luvithere — April 16, 2014 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I decided to check out the forum at the miniscule capacity I now have thanks to the new limits set forth by the publisher of this site...much of the same old, same discussion, politics and rehashing the political party bashing...

Not much for me to react upon...but one particular post caught my attention and I just wanted to do a shout out with a hearty THANK YOU to nails and your comment on April 15, 2014 at 4:29 p.m., providing the Neil Young "Old Man" video. Yes, I like the Neil Young song...always have (liked it better in its original state although it accompanies an important message this time that affects us all), and it's the message Neil presents at Farm Aid AFTER the song which I believe everyone needs to take seriously.

If you haven't listened to the message after the song, please take the time to do so.

Again nailingit...THANK YOU!!!

goldenoldie — April 16, 2014 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 16, 2014 at 8:28 a.m.

Good to see you! I almost posted: ATTENTION GOLDENOLDIE! at the time.

Glad you enjoyed it.

nailingit — April 16, 2014 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cinnamon covered Graham crackers. They are crispier and do better with milk. When I get a sweet tooth gotta have a couple...

Onto the ACA, much of the angst of the product we sell is that Obama could have used his pen as I've said before to force Pre Existing and a couple other items upon the Insurance companies without having to Re Write what wasn't broken.. He could have also opened up selling products across state lines... Oregon's Subsidized plans are much cheaper than WA State for example...As for my BIAS of this President.. His obvious Job approval speaks volumes. Dems are even jumping ship.. You can't sit there and truly say he hasn't "Misled or Lied " on many fronts.. Your earlier defense was all presidents do this.. Well I guess being President or a politician means you have to Lie or Mislead so the American people are protected. Being in the business we are privy to statistics and numbers of Insured people. I don't know why the WH can't come up with the figures that are so easily had... While 300 might be a small number to arrive at certainty, it probably has a 5%-10% accuracy figure nationally.. So even on the bright side we have maybe 850K new Paying insured folks that got signed up. What figure would also be nice to know is how many people who lost their insurance last year haven't purchased a plan this year. We would then subtract that figure form the 850K and that would be the net gain/Loss.

Either way the whole crux of the ACA could have been administered differently then coming out with this huge Boondoggle.. Whether it's here to stay or not doesn't really matter..We need to get some things changed within it and if that can be done we might be able to see some rate reduction across the board...

On another note just started planning a couple 3 day Fly Fishing trip, maybe central Washington early may......Take care everyone just ran out of the free stuff. Hey Nail if you want to play socialist for a moment you could hook a couple of us up like GO and myself for a month..

vanwadreamer — April 16, 2014 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Facts just killed the Obamacare haters: How the lunatics finally lost all credibility-

Previously, Republican lawmakers' hysteria was taken seriously. But in the face of stunning data, it's a new day

Blackburn spoke on Sunday, so her interviewer didn’t have the opportunity to gauge her reaction to the Congressional Budget Office’s latest report on the Affordable Care Act. The CBO, in collaboration with the Joint Committee on Taxation, “project that 12 million more nonelderly people will have health insurance in 2014 than would have had it in the absence of the ACA. They also project that 19 million more people will be insured in 2015, 25 million more will be insured in 2016, and 26 million more will be insured each year from 2017 through 2024 than would have been the case without the ACA.” These coverage figures are upward revisions from CBO’s last estimate. And it will all come at a cheaper price, too: “The agencies now project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, $104 billion less than the previous projection.” (As CBO clarifies, “Those estimates address only the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA, which do not generate all of the act’s budgetary effects. Many other provisions, on net, are expected to reduce budget deficits.”) And the lower net costs of the ACA stem from the fact that insurance plans being offered are cheaper than what the CBO had originally projected them to be.

On top of what CBO says — that the ACA is providing coverage for 12 million than otherwise would have had it in 2014 alone, for cheaper than expected — a number of early surveys suggest that the numbers don’t lie: between 5 and 10 or so million, on average, have already picked up coverage.

Read much more @

nailingit — April 16, 2014 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

— a number of early surveys suggest that the numbers don’t lie: between 5 and 10 or so million, on average, have already picked up coverage.
nailingit — April 16, 2014 at 11:16 a.m.

Numbers may not lie, but with determination they can be buried until becoming inmaterial.... this is where conspiracy theory and coincidence becomes indistinguishable, or at least interchangable.;=politics&_r=0

jacjak — April 16, 2014 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I spent a little time snooping around the links on journalistic concern you posted last week. Really interesting, thanks, tho it does seems there's always more to read and I end up getting distracted. No wonder it's called a Web.

The Public Integrity article had a ton of links, which are always good for backing up, tho sort of dropped that ball in the last few paragraphs when it came to the United States. Known for a while Russia was silencing investigative reporters. I started paying more attention when a woman journalist was shot 17 times as she answered the door at her own apartment. She was investigating Putin's election. It was years ago, and I'm not even where I read it, but it stuck. And our very own celebrity Snowden, and that slippery slope, is right there.

jacjak — April 16, 2014 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: Yeah. Being a reporter is a risky job in many countries. It is not so revered much here, anymore, either, but life and limb are not so much in peril.

Interesting, indeed, to note that the Pulitzer (Public Service) was awarded to two newspapers that broke the Snowden story, elevating the importance of his expose in some eyes and denigrating the awards in others.

We don't lack controversy in this county. :)

manthou — April 16, 2014 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I meant to type "country" of course, but "county" slipped out. It is my brain worm nemesis.

manthou — April 16, 2014 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ya know the Columbian is getting hard up when they start taking ads from sex stores like Taboo. HAHA. Massage parlors next?!

I was thinking the Columbian may be out of business or under new ownership and management in 3 - 5 years or less. Looks like less. They've done themselves irreparable harm with their one-sided political activism.

Taboo! LOL!

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wonderin' aloud..

[[[Why should a business such as Taboo be treated differently from other businesses from a libertarian's point of view? .............. hmmm]]]


Interesting that a kid can pee into a water reservoir in the first place, let alone cause problems like they're having in Portland. Are Washington tanks covered or buried? If not, why not. (I have read about the nature friendly aspects of open reservoirs, but seriously..) If we can't operate an enclosed clean water facility in the 21st century our problems are bigger than I thought.

I would think this would be a security issue as well. Not that anyone would want to contaminate a large city's water supply.....

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 8:06 a.m.

The Left does not distinguish between public and private. Mandatory and voluntary. The Columbian is free to associate with whom they please, as I am free to observe as I will.

How's the search for your claim of projected health care costs consuming 40% of GDP in another 4 years (with out the ACA) going?

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 8:06 a.m.

I think Portland was balking at the price of covering the reservoir a few years back although they were ordered to cover it. Don't remember all the details. It should be covered. Crazy to have it exposed.

luvithere — April 17, 2014 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"How's the search for your claim of projected health care costs consuming 40% of GDP in another 4 years (with out the ACA) going?"

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 8:37 a.m. | suggest removal | Ignore User :)

Really? That is all you got? Deflect and obfuscate. I suppose you will harp about the 40% thing for the remainder of your life. :) A part of me is happy that I provided a much needed spark.

To answer, I haven't searched. But until I feel a desire to, and find it, I'll admit to committing a sin if you like. (feel free to cast the first stone..cough cough)

@@@(((To repeat: [[[Why should a business such as Taboo be treated differently from other businesses from a libertarian's point of view? .............. hmmm]]])))

A social conservative posing as a libertarian. Something that's been obvious for some time now.

Interesting and relatable-to-you write from Krugman. I also wonder how many so-called conservatives/libertarians take advantage of government programs while denouncing them for the future of others.

-Conservatives Are (Mostly) Not Libertarians-

Mike Konczal has an interesting and useful essay over at Wonkblog on what conservatives don’t get — namely, their failure to appreciate that some problems are inherently public in nature, and require public solutions. Somewhat unusually, however, I think that Mike has somewhat missed the point, and engaged in a bit of wishful thinking. His essay is an excellent critique of libertarians; but most conservatives are not libertarians, even if they like to use libertarian rhetoric now and then.

Think about it: the modern Republican party may be the party of deregulation and low taxes, but it’s also the party of social illiberalism. Someone like Rick Santorum firmly believes that the government has no right to tell business owners what they can do in the workplace, but has every right to tell ordinary citizens what they can do in the bedroom.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — April 17, 2014 at 8:41 a.m.

I drink nothing but bottled water, and this reinforces it.

I wonder how many open water reservoirs are across the country? In our state? How many enclosed ones are inspected and maintained as they have their own set of issues?

I wonder how much animal, bird, insect, other crap exists. This seems to channel right into drinking water, and this kid just happened to get caught on cam. I guess they have a filter for the larger stuff like fecal logs?

This is like shutting down a public pool because a kid pooped in the water, except on a much larger scale.

I'll continue to invest in Arrowhead.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 8:59 a.m.

It is hardly I who obfuscates.

I've concisely answered your question. To repeat " The Columbian is free to associate with whom they please, as I am free to observe as I will."

"But when I care to devote more time to this...yawn...subject I will search for it." -- nailingit — April 12, 2014 at 3:49 p.m.

See -- I'm just following up on your promise to provide the source for your claim. Considering you've already stated that that came from a 2009 CBO report, I'd think you could find that right away. I mean again, since you obviously read it once before.

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

knd: Did you finally subscribe to the Columbian? Just wondering.

manthou — April 17, 2014 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A Poser-tarian.

I'll consider it a badge of honor when you bring this 40% thing up. Imagine, posting all these years, and you only have one instance you could hang your toupee on!

But in all fairness, I'm sure I've posted a few other items that could have been vetted more/easier.

@@@It's all you have without answering the question. You made fun of the Columbian for accepting this Taboo business, even implied it was indicative of this paper's early demise. Please explain yourself.

Someone stated awhile back, someone who has had difficulty in his own right explaining personal opinion/ideology when challenged, that you explained where you stood on issues. Funny.

Fact is KJ, you rarely if ever provide any facts, figures, or opinion. You just attack others viewpoints without putting your own out there. Except of course on abortion, today porn, and a few other hot button social conservative issues.

How do you like Santorum in 16'?

Oh yeah, too personal. :) (although disingenuous, great escape hatch)

In case you forgot:

@@@It's all you have without answering the question. You made fun of the Columbian for accepting this Taboo business, even implied it was indicative of this paper's early demise. Please explain yourself.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 9:41 a.m.

sub•ter•fuge : the use of tricks especially to hide, avoid, or get something

Full Definition of SUBTERFUGE

1: deception by artifice or stratagem in order to conceal, escape, or evade

2: a deceptive device or stratagem

I'm still wiping the spit off of my face from last week when I asked, in a single sentence, for the source of your claim. It's always been difficult to know if you act this way because you really believe yourself, or if you just like the subterfuge antics. Either way it's troubling. Equally troubling, is that your colleagues here, seem to look the other way.

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 10:05 a.m.

Your never ceasing accusations of a good defense is the best offense stuff is rightly on display.

All I'm requesting is you explain your thought process @ 7:59. No one is disputing your right to "observe". Please explain your rhetoric in response to your observations. Your double standard of expecting answers, yet giving none of your own, is quite common with you.

No tit, if you can't provide tat.

"I'm still wiping the spit off of my face from last week when I asked, in a single sentence, ... "

My God, this is like a trophy to you! :) If and when I do find any support to back my 40% claim, (which as I've previously stated I may have been in error) I think I'll hang onto the info and let this situation bleed out a bit. Too funny! A Troll gets a trophy!

Most of us (I think) take this forum in step with life. But I understand a life means different things to different people.

You expect answers from others, yet fail consistently to provide your own.


Quid Pro Quo:

In case you forgot:

@@@It's all you have without answering the question. You made fun of the Columbian for accepting this Taboo business, even implied it was indicative of this paper's early demise. Please explain yourself.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Your never ceasing accusations of a good defense is the best offense stuff is rightly on display."

Or was it the other way around? It's hard to keep up with your latest sayings.

But they always seem to be self applicable.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

knd @ I echo manthou's question. Are you now supporting the C with a subscription?

Or is that "too personal" also. :)

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

knd- I'll offer a little help, then I'm afraid you're going to have to play with someone else for awhile.

I'll attempt to do this for you. Sans the snark.

"The C in accepting this type of advertising, might be compromising their relationship with paid subscribers who take offense promoting this type of business."

Accept that didn't cut it, did it. It's the hard edged inferences and emotional rhetoric (per usual) we need to address.

"hard up" "HAHA." "Massage parlors next?!"

Love that good ol' libertarian thought...

"They've done themselves irreparable harm with their one-sided political activism."

(please provide context and fiscal/other projection numbers to support your statement. You ask this type of request of others, this should not be a problem.)

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

$17 million in overpayments including $1.45 million in overpayments to David Evans & Associates for the now-defunct Columbia River Crossing Project, eh...

I remember some people including local/state/national officials and news reporters poo poo'ing a certain forensic auditor's work...claiming everything wrong about what she had discovered...and she was spot on from the beginning. So how did you fix YOUR crow - boiled, baked, barbecued or fried???

Those in charge of approving and dispensing with the funds for a failed crossing project should be held accountable and those elected officials who failed to acknowledge the corruption should be kicked out of office immediately. Where else are they spending taxpayer $$$ foolishly??? hehe...just about everywhere...


Also...those elected officials who are even thinking of another pet project should be held under the microscope and should be scrutinized for every penny spent on any current OR future megaprojects (including an east side bridge) and budget limits should not be breached as they obviously were with DE & A. Someone should reimburse the taxpayers.

We can't afford to let this one go.

goldenoldie — April 17, 2014 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Welcome back goldenoldie. Better to crow than to eat it I suppose. Although personally, I never disputed corruption being involved. It's the American way.

We do need to hold accountable any wrong doings for sure.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't drink (plain) water, though I do bathe with it. I'm sure the Dial can handle 1 part per bazillion pee in the potable system (shrug). Did you know urine (before entering the urethra) is near sterile?

Here a while back I read an article about urine combined with high concentrations of chlorine; like in a swimming pool. Now _that_ can result in some really nasty molecular combinations.

When I was taught first aid while in the Navy we were told, if water wasn't available, to urinate on exposed bowels. It was imperative to survival the guts not dry out.

Did you know there's an FDA threshold for bug parts and murine (rats/mice) feces in food?

Oh, and that clip was mislabeled. that wasn't Jethro Tull. It was Ian Anderson. Just sayin' ;^)

and he....

Drift — April 17, 2014 at 2:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Equally troubling, is that your colleagues here, seem to look the other way.

kn_dalai — April 17, 2014 at 10:05 a.m.

Oh oh.... were we all suppose to be hall monitors or overseers for the posts of others on this site? I had no idea. Like any share site or open forum, I assumed participents post opinion, challange opinion, counter challange, share info, debate points, socialize, etc. etc., and there is someone name John Hill should any of those things get out of hand. But frankly, if someone wants to state outrageous bias or exaggerated facts, that's on them, not me. Being like minded is nice, but not necessarily a learning opportunity. Sort of like penguins... Just because someone else does not have the inclination to question a post, it does not mean there is agreement or disagreement, or looking the other way. It's their opinion to own and defend. Simple really. That being said, I reserve the right to voice aggrement or disagreement, but when/if I do, it will be mine exclusively, not because someone determines it's lack is a measure of approval. If we all agree, approve, protect, and side with each other, we may as well meet at the local starbucks and not even deal with captcha. So, go ahead... challange on, but don't muddy the waters by implying others need to stick their oar in, too.

jacjak — April 17, 2014 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — April 17, 2014 at 2:32 p.m.

Oh, and that clip was mislabeled. that wasn't Jethro Tull. It was Ian Anderson. Just sayin' ;^)

and he....

Maybe you drifted just a bit far and didn't notice Andrew Giddings at the piano. Technically I suppose you're correct. Anymore, with aging rock stars, sometimes lucky to get two. At any rate...

...things aren't always as we see them.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I enjoyed a Tull concert while I was in the Navy. As were all of the concerts we squids attended in Norfolk, they played at the Scope. The Moody Blues opened, or vice versa, I don't recall.

What I do recall was Ian. Man, to say he was animated wouldn't be near enough of a description of his antics. The cat looked like he was made of rubber, standing on one leg blowing, breathing his flute while his arms, not "flailed," but flowed like the weeds in the ocean.

And the music was pretty darned good, too. I've always liked Ian and the Tull.

And I've not a clue who the keyboard player was in 1978.

Drift — April 17, 2014 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ya gotta love Larry Flynt. He has a way of needling the opposition like no other.

Here's a national story that made me smile: Every member of Congress has received a Hustler in the mail from Flynt for 30 years now and some who oppose it can't stop him. Why not?

Hooray for the First Amendment!

manthou — April 17, 2014 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — April 17, 2014 at 5:22 p.m

Everybody gets rid of them except the Republican'ts.

Hawkman — April 17, 2014 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It'd be kinda cool to have one autographed by JHB.

nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Government goes wild!!!! Part 1.

CHARLESTON COUNTY, SC (WCSC) - Officials with the VA Medical Center in downtown Charleston say a North Charleston man who was initially federally charged with a $525 fine for an $.89 drink refill will instead be given a warning.

"In reviewing the case, the Ralph H. Johnson VA Medical Center has determined a warning in lieu of a citation is sufficient in this case," a statement released by the VA stated on Thursday.

Christopher Lewis, an on-site construction worker, said he didn't know refills at the VA Medical Center in downtown Charleston came at a price, and Wednesday, during his lunch hour, he was originally slapped with federal charges. The ticket was issued by the Federal Police Force at the VA Medical Center in downtown Charleston after Lewis refilled his soda without paying the $0.89. A hospital spokesperson on Wednesday called it a "theft of government property."

"Every time I look at the ticket, it's unbelievable to me,” Lewis said on Wednesday. “I can't fathom the fact that I made a $0.89 mistake that cost me $525."

Lewis is now out of a job. According to a hospital spokesperson, signs are posted in the cafeteria informing patrons that refills aren't free. Lewis says he never noticed the signs and admits he had refilled his drink without paying on other occasions. He says after he went back for seconds on Wednesday, a man who identified himself as the chief of police, stopped him.

"As I was filling my cup up, I turned to walk off and a fella grabbed me by the arm and asked me was I going to pay for that, and I told him I wasn't aware that I had to pay for that."

Lewis says he tried to pay the $0.89 right there, but wasn't allowed to. He says he wasn't given the chance to pay the cashier either.

"I never had an option to make right what I had done wrong."

Hawkman — April 17, 2014 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

part 2.He says he was taken to a room, given the $525 ticket for shoplifting and told not to return to the property.

"I'm done there, at the VA hospital. I'm not allowed to go on the premises anymore. I asked him can I still work on the job site and just bring my lunch and not got to the cafeteria and he said he wanted me off the premises."

A hospital spokesperson says it was her understanding that Lewis was aggressive during the confrontation.

The medical center originally released the following statement on Wednesday:

The Ralph H. Johnson VA Medical Center is fortunate to have a highly trained Federal police force to ensure the safety of our patients, visitors and employees. As Federal police they are responsible for enforcing the law. Today a Federal citation was issued for shoplifting in the VA cafeteria to an individual who stated to VA police he had not paid for refills of beverages on multiple occasions, even though signs are posted in the cafeteria informing patrons refills are not free. Shoplifting is a crime. The dollar amount of the ticket is not determined by VA as it is a Federal citation. The citation may be paid or the recipient may choose to appear in Federal court to contest it.

Lewis and his fiancé have contacted the Internal Affairs Office in Columbia. He says he will contest the fine in federal court.

"It's about pretty much I guess you would say getting your face back. I want everybody to know that I made a simple mistake, that I'm not a thief, that I'm not dishonest. I'm trying to do the right thing."

Hawkman — April 17, 2014 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"It'd be kinda cool to have one autographed by JHB." nailingit — April 17, 2014 at 7:34 p.m.

That's not what you really mean, is it?

roger — April 18, 2014 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Forum folks: Clark County's proposed charter is very much fluid still and I understand that there still will be some changes proposed to find more common ground. Look for some good ideas to come from Betty Sue Morris and others.

Please let your preferences be known by emailing the Freeholders ( or by attending the next meeting, Tuesday at 6pm at the Clark County Service Center. On the docket that night: nominations to replace the unfortunate loss of Val Ogden. Her husband, Dan, has volunteered to step in for her. Best choice, in my opinion.

I hold great hope that the Freeholders will demonstrate that diverse opinions can find common ground for the greater good. We shall see.

manthou — April 18, 2014 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I also saw Tull at the Scope - They'd just released Thick As A Brick, so I think it was '72. My brother got good tickets, so I took a few days off school before finals and cruised down from PA to catch the show. Captain Beefheart was the 2nd act. A pretty good show, but it probably cost me a couple of grades with the last minute papers I wrote and walking into finals without the usual week of white cross cramming.

roger — April 18, 2014 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — April 18, 2014 at 6:37 a.m.


nailingit with love..a little more to the left please.

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Cliven Bundy syndrome: Why Christian conservatives think they’re above the law-

From Hobby Lobby to the Nevada rancher, members of the far right share a dangerous, anarchic pathology

Cliven Bundy doesn’t use religion as his excuse, but he still insists that since he doesn’t believe in the “United States government as even existing,” then he shouldn’t have to follow its laws. It’s a logical extension of the anti-gay and anti-contraception “opt out” arguments, rooted as it is in a belief that conservatives have a unique claim to simply reject any laws they don’t want to follow, even as they, like Bundy, take advantage of the amenities of citizenship.

No wonder conservative media is so warm to the guy. To be clear, none of these actions should be confused with civil disobedience, though some have tried. Civil disobedience is about changing unjust laws, not trying to get a special exception from the law for you and people like you. The only reason right-wing media is giving sympathetic coverage to Bundy is that he’s identifiable as a conservative and therefore his desire to make money off the backs of taxpayers without paying his fair share gets sympathetic treatment. But if he was black or female and got away with even a dollar more food stamps than he was owed, he would be treated like public enemy No. 1 by Fox News. Being able to shrug off laws you don’t like is a privilege reserved for the few in the world of conservative media.

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Been searching a bit on this GDP health care expenditure stuff and calculated projection costs. If health care costs were projected to be 20% of our GDP expense in 2018, and total expense projected at 40% of GDP, actual cost would be 40-50% of budget.

Anyone care to give input? Just trying to understand if I misspoke or not.

Mama never said I was the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she respects my good intentions if anything else.

Drift — April 12, 2014 at 1:43 p.m.

Could you point me to what section that prompted your post? I'm having a little difficulty navigating the document in relation to current talking points.

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, I do believe Bundy was wrong in his actions. But I also think that the BLM went to extremes. His cattle should have been removed back to his ranch instead of taken to be sold or whatever. It would be like me saying I always used your property to party on before you bought it and I should still be able to use it now. Bundy should have just paid the price per head of cattle and gone on with life.

timerick — April 18, 2014 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, if the document I linked to isn't relative to your post reading your "40%" came from CBO projections dated 2009, then I was mistaken in assuming the link was that document.

Notice, I didn't write the 40% could (or couldn't) be found within it.

It could well be I've gotten way off track with the conversation?

Drift — April 18, 2014 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift- Just trying to draw sources together and make sense of the 40% number. I get lost in long docs and such. Although I feel like I'm spending way too much time with this, I'm just trying to not only make sense of five year old thought in correlating outdated numbers, but clarifying my 40% claim.

Assuming my numbers are correct, do you think I'm on the right track @ 10:12?.

After spending a little time searching for the elusive "40%" health care number, it appears I misquoted the 40% number from Congressional Budget Office, technically, from 2009. The 40% number was to include total US GDP expenditure for 2018-19 projections if I'm understanding this correctly, and 20% were to be health care costs.

Again, if 20% of GDP were to be health care expense, and a 40% of GDP represented total expenditure, wouldn't that put health care projections at the previously stated 40%+ ?

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — April 18, 2014 at 11:14 a.m.

I agree that Bundy was wrong and should have paid up. Bundy knows the risk of cattle ranching on the cheap using public lands.

It's unfortunate, but not surprising many on the right are giving him celebrity status. So goes the media.

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

That's right Nail. And now we have Harry Reid throwing fuel on the fire. That man at least to me has spent to much time in the desert sun.

timerick — April 18, 2014 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — April 18, 2014 at 1:13 p.m.

Politics. Somebody's gotta do it! He oughta farm it out to Pelosi and join Dubya at Crawford for some drinks and indoor painting.

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So if Bundy dosen't recognize the federal government and says Navada is a sovereign nation, why is he wrapping himself in the US flag during public speaking events? The Right is calling his a 'patriot'. I wonder if they even use a dictionary. Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. Synonyms - nationalist, loyalist.

Then again, 'thief'... a person who steals another person's property, esp. by stealth and without using force or violence. Synonyms - embezzler, swindler.

Frankly, he's a just a thief, taking advantage of lax oversight and inadequate manpower at the CSA, and if the fees he hasn't paid for 20 years is over $500, he's a felon, not just a petty crook. He stole from the taxpayers... all of us who pay for the privileges, security, protections, and advantages of living in a united group of states. If he wants to trash all that while pretending to be some sort of freedom fighting warrior, that's his prerogative. But he sure as hell's not fighting any abstract singular battle for me, or for the benefit of me, or for those of mine who gave their life for this country. It's only for himself, and about himself. And, of course he's being used, but won't define 'chump'.

Sort of had my back up since I heard that whole 'patriot' thing.

jacjak — April 18, 2014 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Personally, I never differentiated this day from any other. :) But found this article a fun read.

-Here's Everything You Need To Know About Why We Celebrate Weed On 4/20-

nailingit — April 18, 2014 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: It appears that WA Republican Rep Matt Shea is going to Nevada to assist Bundy in his fight against the BLM.


manthou — April 19, 2014 at 4:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

They're coming for our kids, our grandkids...soon to be riding the backs of a conservative Supreme Court decision.

-Hobby Lobby Leaders Hope To Spread Bible Course To Thousands Of Schools-

The president of a company that is currently challenging Obamacare laws before the Supreme Court is also trying to bring a class about the Bible to thousands of schools.

Earlier this week, Mustang Public Schools in Oklahoma voted to adopt a Bible course developed under the leadership of Hobby Lobby president Steve Green, according to The Washington Post. Those involved with the course told the outlet they hope other school districts will soon follow suit.

Read More @

nailingit — April 19, 2014 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding the rancher in Nevada and the handling of the situation by the federal officials...

A few thoughts to ponder:

Why is it the ranchers have to pay to lease BLM land in order to feed their cattle when the feds have cut off water rights to the ranchers across the USA, resulting in the loss of cattle and food for the masses in the first place? Couldn't the ranchers "pay back" by providing meat or crops for the less-fortunate people of our nation???

What right does the federal government have in euthanizing two prize bulls...the lifeline of the typical American Rancher...rather than hold the two bulls till issues are settled???

It is obvious, there is a major issue with the desert tortoises in the region in conflict, given the mass euthanization of the tortoises by those monitoring and attempting to revitalize the critters in their habitat, so why not relocate the tortoises and allow local ranchers to free-range their cattle in the stricken zone as long as waterways are left undisturbed or restored by the ranchers?

What has the BLM done for the land region in question (or any other BLM land) as far as improvements or habitat restoration?


What is the Federal Government doing for the freedom and rights of family farmers/ranchers and the consumers in the USA in regards to maintaining and preserving the viable tilth across the nation and preserving our food supply (beef, pork, lamb and poultry as well as produce), especially in drought stricken regions???

goldenoldie — April 19, 2014 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — April 19, 2014 at 8:27 a.m.

"Why is it the ranchers have to pay to lease BLM land in order to feed their cattle when the feds have cut off water rights to the ranchers across the USA,"

What does one thing have to do with the other? And I Googled the water thing and only found right wing whiners so I'm not sure it's real. Got proof?

"Couldn't the ranchers "pay back" by providing meat or crops for the less-fortunate people of our nation???"

Really? That would take complete other agency to control all of that and I thought you guys were for "smaller" government.

" why not relocate the tortoises"

You're kidding, right?

Oh, I have much better things to do today.

Hawkman — April 19, 2014 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just saying........

NEWARK, N.J. (AP) - A New Jersey woman who says she was denied a license plate referencing atheism filed suit this week, claiming her online application was rejected because it was deemed potentially offensive.
Shannon Morgan, of Maurice Township, said in a federal lawsuit filed Thursday that the Motor Vehicle Commission violated her First Amendment rights when its website rejected the plate reading "8THEIST." She said she received a message stating that her vanity plate request was ineligible as it "may carry connotations offensive to good taste and decency."
Morgan then filled out the online application using the phrase "BAPTIST" as a test, which the website accepted. Morgan claims in her lawsuit that she sent the agency a letter of complaint by registered mail and made several attempts to contact them by phone, all of which went unanswered.
Messages and emails left for the Motor Vehicle Commission by The Associated Press on Friday were not returned. A recorded message said the offices were closed in observance of Good Friday.
New Jersey previously, after a brief flap, approved a request from an atheist group's president for a license plate that read "ATH1EST," with the number one in place of the letter "i."
Ayesha N. Khan, the legal director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, a Washington D.C.-based advocacy group representing Morgan, said the fact this has happened at least twice in New Jersey shows the problem has not been fixed.
The Motor Vehicle Commission is "disfavoring atheist plates and not fixing the system. Whatever Internet glitch there might be cannot be the explanation this time," Khan said, adding that they were seeking the enactment of new agency regulations that include "objective, viewpoint-neutral criteria for issuing a plate."

Hawkman — April 19, 2014 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"' why not relocate the tortoises'"

'"You're kidding, right?'"

Not that I agree with Rancher Dude's actions, but:

Yes, tortoises can be relocated. The link above states at a cost of $55,000 per shell. Another source read over 100 grand each.

Drift — April 19, 2014 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd be happy to save folks a dollar and house a few of these turtle type dudes for half the cost. When I was a kid we had two desert tortoises who decided to make our back yard their home. I'm not sure how they feel about PNW weather, but then neither am I.

nailingit — April 19, 2014 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A Democrat's best friend.

-Glenn Beck says Mitch McConnell’s Tea Party opponent has “been called by God”-

The right-wing pundit apparently thinks businessman Matt Bevin has been chosen by God to challenge the GOP leader VIDEO’s_tea_party_opponent_has_been_called_by_god”/

nailingit — April 19, 2014 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Since I know I have very few times left to post or even read anything on the C's website for the month, I guess I'd best get in whatever I can.

To Hawkman...I wasn't intending this to be a partisan bashing discussion. My intention was purely to see if we as a whole might be able to come to some kind of understanding on the matter regarding farmers and ranchers. Sorry you had to take it in the wrong direction...and no, I don't believe that a smaller government is necessarily the answer, but I do believe in an efficient government...still waiting to see that. Regarding the water shortage and the Feds refusing might check out the below link:

I'm not saying the decision to cut back water is a direct hit to each individual farmer/rancher, but rather...a hit to everyone BECAUSE of the lack of drinking water, thanks to a drought as well as a few questionable reasons suggested in the news. Why hasn't the State of California jumped to the chance of acquisition of federal aid for oceanic desalinization systems for the water needs of Californians???

A couple ideas:

Number One Solution: DO NOT APPROVE NEW High Density Housing CONSTRUCTION in areas hardest hit by drought. If you can't supply the water to these units, then don't build it in the first place. Any new construction allowed in the drought-stricken regions should include rainwater collection systems (especially during monsoon season - thus, allowing rainwater to stay in the region rather than washing out to the pacific) and alternative energy solutions which don't require hydroelectric energy.

Number two solution - In regions hardest hit by drought, all landscape construction should be designed with water reduction landscaping (more xeriscaping and drought-tolerant planting).

Any others??? We could all learn from others' mistakes as well as our own. Clark PUD has their fair next weekend. Conservation is their #1 concern. It's worth checking out.

goldenoldie — April 19, 2014 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't understand why they would have to move the little guys in the first place. They might enjoy a little shade from the mirrors.

As for high density housing in drought areas, how would you know when a drought was going to occur? If you could predict the rain that far out, you could be the greatest weatherman in history.

Hawkman — April 19, 2014 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

WOW, I'm surprised I'm still able to post!

Hawkman, I was reading an article by Nat'l Geographic about the phenomenon in Cali...worth checking out if you google "could California's drought last 200 years?" It was dated Feb 13, 2014. I didn't want to provide the link due to the possibility of copyright infringement issues.

Turns out, it's highly likely they are in the midst of a Pacific Decadal Oscillation-caused Drought and could be facing many more years of it, thanks to an extended El Nino pattern. They've had this for quite some time. My comment regarding limitations of building in drought-stricken regions refers to current constructions in those zones...not what might happen to areas in the future. If the drought-stricken zones were to recuperate fully, then the laws could easily be modified.

I hope I've helped clarify my statement to you.

goldenoldie — April 19, 2014 at 8:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This might get interesting;

Associated Press
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Texas Gov. Rick Perry has spent a record 14 years in office vanquishing nearly all who dared confront him: political rivals, moms against mandatory vaccines for sixth graders, a coyote in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But with eight months left on the job and a decision to make about the 2016 presidential race, the long-serving governor known for his Texas swagger is now the focus of a grand jury investigation that could cause more difficulty than any adversary has.

What should have been a political victory lap for Perry could now wind up in a final tussle that has implications for his political future.

"Gov. Perry is used to being challenged every step of the way in almost every issue. In that sense, this is not significantly different," said Ray Sullivan, Perry's onetime chief of staff and a former spokesman. "This just comes with the territory."

A judge seated a grand jury in Austin this week to consider whether Perry, who is weighing another run for the White House, abused his power when he carried out a threat to veto $7.5 million in state funding for public corruption prosecutors last summer.

Hawkman — April 20, 2014 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - Interesting selections from a great album. Leon produced and played on it. The best version of Delta Lady is found there. I suppose I'll have to put it on the turntable later today.

roger — April 20, 2014 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Perry's supposed grand jury issue will go nowhere. If that were the case the President would have been subject to a few Impeachment proceedings by now. Oh and it's only the truth if Huff Post or CNN says so..LOLOL.. BTW if your Family had owned land for what 150yrs or so give or take or just a few off, wouldn't you or might you be a little P-off about the government taking it from you.. Just saying.. But being a LIB as you are you probably would just give a few acres back every year ...Right.

vanwadreamer — April 20, 2014 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rick 'the hair' Perry is thinking about running for President again? After last time!! Must remember to stock up on popcorn, it's gonna be spectacle. Maybe he'll give another New Hampshire speech, whee giddyup! Perhaps the veto reminds him of public drunks and it's consequences, and it's not political at all.

Gawd, I miss Molly Ivins, she had Perry's number faster than she had Dubya's --- and that was about lightspeed, which has much to do with vacuums.

jacjak — April 20, 2014 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — April 20, 2014 at 9:14 a.m.

Mad Dogs & Englishmen rate in my top 5 recordings of all time. Incredible music and vibe. I saw Joe somewhere in the late 70's to early eighties, and of course he was great. I saw Leon right about year or so after MD&E.; Most likely his first tour after. I was already worshiping at the alter of Leon, so it made the show that much better. Stood about 20' from him behind the stage, behind his gorgeous backup/ground singers the whole performance. It does not get better.

To this day my second favorite show all time. The first being Floyd's Dark Side tour.

Right on about Delta Lady. I'll see if I can find it.

There's magic in them thar tunes!

nailingit — April 20, 2014 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — April 20, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.

I can't even respond to you, you wouldn't be able to read it anyway with your head so deep in your ***.

Hawkman — April 20, 2014 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — April 20, 2014 at 9:49 a.m.

Perry's a hoot. Republicans are trying to limit their exposure in 16' with less debates and air time, and no doubt Perry is on the list of reasons why. I would think if they had a better message and candidates than Democrats they'd want more air time. :) Seeking less exposure speaks volumes.

With a voting block that doesn't hold their representatives accountable, besides the litmus test of hating all things Obama, and with crazy bias right wing media to constantly criticize Dems while never offering viable ideas or solutions of their own, these politicians on the right get away with just about anything.

nailingit — April 20, 2014 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Stevens gave her great advice, and hopefully she follows it.

-John Paul Stevens Says Ruth Bader Ginsburg Sought His Advice On Retirement-

nailingit — April 20, 2014 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just about finished reading, "The Fourth Part of the World" by Toby Lester. It's totally excellent and plan to re-read it as there's just too much information to grasp in one dose. Am thinking about tackling "Capital in the Twenty-First Century" by Thomas Piketty next. At $22 and almost 700 pages, I hesitate, tho think based on reviews it may shed light on a complex subject, and was wondering if anyone in the forum happened to have already read it. If so what'd you think? Would you recommend? Have a background in investments but not an economist by any measure, so thought I'd ask...

jacjak — April 20, 2014 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: You and roger are probably the most well-read Forum participants, in my opinion.

Let us know if you think Piketty has any viable solutions to the global problem of unequal distribution of wealth when you are through. An academic pal is reading it now and mentioned it in passing during a long lunch: I have no other knowledge of it, though.

manthou — April 21, 2014 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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