Open forum, Jan 6-12



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The beating of drums turned into song. Great article if you have a few minutes.

///From Nixon to Paul Ryan: How right-wing radicals deceive America///

-By shifting the spectrum of debate, here's how America's rightward march has been normalized throughout history-

[Nixon’s real record, politically, can best be understood in terms of Rick Perlstein’s “Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America. “As its title suggests, “Nixonland” makes abundantly clear the role that Nixon played in fracturing America along cultural lines that permanently transformed American politics. Nixon had plenty of help, of course.  The ’60s were a time of explosive social turmoil, which the media regularly sensationalized, emphasizing contrasting extremes far more than it worked to foster dialogue — a perfect setup for the sort of politics Nixon practiced. A different sort of person would have tried to solve the problems he exploited to win the White House in 1968. Instead, Nixon intentionally inflamed them. Reviewing “Nixonland” for the Nation, Thomas J. Sugrue put it well: “But as Perlstein shows, Nixon did not want to restore order. Instead, he stoked the fires of discontent to shape an enduring conservative majority. He needed polarization and disruption, so long as liberals would keep taking the fall.” In this context, the very failure of the “war on drugs” was its biggest success — one that continues to this very day.

The “Southern Strategy” — along with a less-publicized “Northern Strategy” to reach out to working-class white ethnics in the Northeast and Midwest — arguably represented the most significant example of the fractures that Nixon helped open up, and, more important, cement into place. No figure did more than Richard Nixon to open up the fundamental cleavage between “them” and “us” and to make that cleavage into a fundamental ontological fact of American politics.  The fact that he’s not seen as a particularly conservative figure is a testament to just how profound his impact was. Yet, tellingly, we generally cannot even begin to imagine what a liberal alternative to him and his world might have looked like.]


[Spurred on by Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa” theory, Reagan embraced tax cuts as a growth-promoting strategy, which gave Republicans a way to play “tax cut Santa” in contrast to the Democrats “spending Santa,” rather than just “playing Scrooge,” as Wanniski warned against.  Economically, the strategy was a bust. GDP grew just 31.7 percent during Reagan’s eight years in office, compared with Clinton’s 33.1 percent and JFK/LBJ’s 47.1 percent. But it did wonders for the 1 percent, whose income grew 10 times as much as everyone else—61.5 percent vs 6.15 percent — a  far cry from JFK/LBJ under whom the 99 percent actually did better than the 1 percent: 30.9 percent vs 26.9 percent.]

Read more @

nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You might be right Nail. But back in the 60's I was more concerned with getting my hind end out of Viet Nam and coming home. But looking back LBJ was trying to figure out how to end Viet Nam as was Nixon I think. The whole country was against that war. And things really backfired on them both. The peace,love dove movement was in full swing. These kids for the most part came from upper middle class and trying to prove themselves. My folks generation had never seen so much money. Most had grown up poor. It was a huge change for this country. Some was good but there was a lot that was not. My generation was spoiled but we also worked. All my friends growing up had jobs. Even the kids from wealthy families. My how things have changed.

timerick — January 6, 2014 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tim, I don't think LBJ was trying to get OUT of Nam, he was trying to extend things there so he could make more money for himself and his buddies. Kennedy started seeing that it was a losing battle and wanted to get out but then he got shot and things escalated after that. Nixon was clueless.

Hawkman — January 6, 2014 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick- It was both crazy good and crazy bad times back in the day for sure.

Hopefully we'll invest in our country again, and reap the rewards it would bring, to include job creation.

We are our own worst enemy.



Come to the Dark Side and prepare for this November. Feel the force around you

It is your destiny.

nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don’t listen to him timerick!!!!!! And if that Death Star starts sucking you in - HIT THE ESCAPE BUTTON BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!!!!!

kn_dalai — January 6, 2014 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal




nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ann Rivers ain't perfect but Benton is a piece of .......... work!

Hawkman — January 6, 2014 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk: What a read that was, eh? Our tax dollars at work, funding Benton's ego needs for revenge.

This guy will be so easy for Greg Ferguson to provoke on the stand. Oooo, it is delicious to think about.

Better than the Cirque du Soleil.

manthou — January 6, 2014 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 6, 2014 at 4:55 p.m.

Oh man! What a great read! It's hard to pick a favorite passage, there's so many. This one has it's own charm:

“He was incensed that he had not been included in the discussions about the proviso,” Rivers wrote. “He kept moving into my personal space and leaning into my face; spittle from his verbal attack landed on my face. He said that I was lying about not having seen the proviso and then said ‘You are (expletive) all over me! You are (expletive) all over your constituents!’”

Face, spittle, attack,'s got everything!

Last weeks forum ended, discussing how fragmented local republicans are if I remember correctly.

More linear jerks.

And the beat goes on...

Nice to know more about the man Madore & Meilke esteem so highly. Classy.

nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well now we went and spoiled it for anyone who hasn’t seen that movie yet!!!

kn_dalai — January 6, 2014 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My favorite was the trampy little girl business. Now, back in the good old days, Ann could have brought her knee up into his sensitive parts, and followed with a well placed smack or two across his face. And the rest of the Senate chamber would have responded to his subsequent complaint of assault with "Sorry, I didn't see anything like that happen."

roger — January 6, 2014 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Faults & Spats!

Imagine Benton's spittle snagging down your face. Rivers could have very well contracted a form of PTSD all things considered. I wonder if ol' Don just picks on the women folk. Then, to turn around and file a formal complaint against her...classy.

In her statement, made in July, Rivers alleged that Benton called her a “trashy trampy-mouthed little girl...”

In defense of the Donster...

Benton said in his appeal that his use of the word “trampy” toward Rivers was not in violation of the Senate’s respectful workplace policy.

“I did not call her a ‘trashy trampy-mouthed little girl,’” Benton wrote. “I said that she was acting like a ‘trashy trampy-mouthed little girl’ as an illustration of how very out-of-place her language was as a state senator.”


This could be an Onion article. How anyone defends this guy is beyond me. We all know how he got the job and that his character is totally in question. And he sounds like a bully among a few other things.

Makes one wonder why Meilke & Madore not only endorsed him, but bent or broke the rules for him.

nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you want a good read on Vietnam, find a copy of Dereliction of Duty: Johnson, McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led to Vietnam by H.R. McMaster. (It's been on the required reading list for Army officers for years.) Among other juicy tidbits of info, the Joint Chiefs were of the opinion that victory would require 5 years and 500,000 troops. This was kept from LBJ (who McMaster says wouldn't have listened anyhow) by McNamara and his group of civilian strategists (many from JFK's administration) who thought they knew more about fighting wars that the uniformed guys. And fast forward to 2003, when Gen Shinseki (who was in Vietnam during those build up days from 1965 on) tried to tell Pres Bush that "something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would be needed for post war Iraq. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz didn't want to hear this, so Shinseki was virtually slandered by that crew. And of course, he turned out to be right.

roger — January 6, 2014 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hmmm... Looks like my facebook comment didn't last too long. I noted that the Senate leadership verified Ann's version, and that after getting sworn at and spit on, responding by calling Benton a piece of shit (her words) was a pretty restrained response in my world. I closed by noting that the affected outrage directed by some of the posters at both of the Senators was pretty bogus, seeing as how they were quite OK with Steve Stuart cussing out Mielke and Madore a while back.

I guess I'm not supposed to rub The C's favored ones in the doo doo they like to spread. I wonder if I'll get an e-mail telling me what I did wrong?

roger — January 6, 2014 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"I closed by noting that the affected outrage directed by some of the posters at both of the Senators was pretty bogus, seeing as how they were quite OK with Steve Stuart cussing out Mielke and Madore a while back."

roger — January 6, 2014 at 6:40 p.m.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

There's a difference with displaying outrage over impropriety, as opposed to causing one.

Don't get yourself kicked off FB! It's drying up enough over there. It might be up to you and timerick to save it.

nailingit — January 6, 2014 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This was, for the most part, reported back when it all took place. To me, it was so outrageous that ANY Senator would get in the face of a "fellow Senator" and scream "F... You" several times and froth at the mouth while doing it.

And then, to have M&M; bring him into OUR County and GIVE him, and I mean !GIVE! him a high paying job that he's not only NOT qualified for but has no right doing. You have to ask yourself, what the hell is going on here? And what were they thinking?

I have a hard time understanding Madore at this point. Mr. God loving religious Christian buddying up with Mr. F... YOU! Is he trying to turn him or is he Yin to his Yang?

Don Benton NEEDS to lose his job. BOTH of his jobs. He doesn't deserve to be a Senator and NEVER deserved to be the DES director. He barely deserves to be alive.

Hawkman — January 6, 2014 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just checked - someone who says he'd never vote for a Repub has taken a liking to Ann and her response to Benton. He closes by noting he finds trashy women kind of hot. That post had lasted 12 minutes when I saw it - interesting.

roger — January 6, 2014 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not much fodder over there anymore nail. Jeffery Gibbons is spot on on most of his posts. You don't even see much of Mike Briggs anymore. I think the C messed up with their pay to use system. As far as Benton goes his party should send him packing. He is turning people away from what they want. I don't think he even makes a good tea party guy. If there is a good tea party guy. For me I will stay in the center. I do believe there are good people on both sides. I think the good ones do want to try to get along and make things work for the good of all of us. The trick is going to be to get the trouble makers from both sides out of the way. Being stubborn has never worked to get anything meaningful done.

timerick — January 6, 2014 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:40

Nope, not seeing your comment. There is one comment that includes both Senators, but most seem to think Benton is a...what'd Rivers call him, again? And one guy thinks 'trashy-trampy loudmouthed' women are kinda hot. Even the 'little girl' part of Benton's 'trashy' comment was an intended put-down. Not sure why the Columbian would think your own comment is against community guidelines. There used to be comments against Stuart and Moeller quite often tho not so much lately. So many who used to post no longer are doing so. I was really hoping all those that seem to have disappeared were just having a nice holiday season, but guess not. The Columbian seems to have done a real disservice to those who give discussion the heated conviction of different perspectives. And, there's a few that used to post here in the forum too, sometimes quite 'vocally'. It was fun, like pounding out a good piece of metal into a shape that you may have not considered before but now find useful. Learning stuff is very difficult if you only interact with those who confirm what you already think. Miss em...

I suspect the Columbian believes some of us come their site strictly for the news... I mean, really!

jacjak — January 6, 2014 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Came on to comment on the same story. You know, he won by 76 votes. uh huh. Close, eh? For incumbent? And tried to smear Tim Probst while he was at it. The wifey threatened to sure Tim, btw. Yep, a class act and a class family, those two.

I also note that he likes ot attack the females. The man obviously suffers from a syndrome which we will not mention in a family friendly basement.

And yes, Roger, there is a big difference when Benton cursed and when Stuart mentioned manure after he was slapped by a hire he did not know about. Goddess almighty, I would have gone on a bilingual rant lasting 20 minutes if I were him that day. And I know the best cuss words in German!!!!

And happily double dipping into tax payers' money...qualified for nothing except make an ass out of himself.

Wonder who will come to his defense here now?

luvithere — January 6, 2014 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The "Marcus: If you aren't nervous, you must be smoking something" opinion article hasn't drawn any comments. Not 'a one.

I have to wonder if advertisers will start pulling their ads.

I randomly chose the week of Oct. 7 thru the 13th. There were 274 basement comments.
Last week saw 104.

Drift — January 7, 2014 at 5:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - Cussing in German always struck me as ineffective - a few zillion syllable words delivered in a calm restrained manner fails to properly get one's attention. (Though I'll grant that what doesn't get seen when one's public face is on may be different.) I preferred the Latin American approach - The Spanish of the islands and Central America - A few choice words delivered with a voice inflection and sneer that is certain to let anyone and everyone know that you are a contemptible person.

I had no problem with Steve Stuart cussing The Boys out. I was using that comparison to address the Briggs and a few others that were trying to steer the conversation to show Rivers on a par with Benton.

And there's something very screwy going on with The Columbian and facebook. If I'm logged into facebook then I can see my post; chronologically the one before George Thomas. If I log out, then it's gone. But I'm not certain anyone else is seeing it. No little thumbs up Like hits, and I still see the other comments. I can go to different articles I've posted to (when not logged onto facebook) and still see my posts. Odd. I don't know a lot about it, but am wondering if a forum moderator can control which comments are seen?

roger — January 7, 2014 at 5:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 7, 2014 at 5:39 a.m

It has been my experience on the FB side (and I've had plenty) that if you log out and can't see your post, neither can anyone else, logged in or not. Now, the test is,log in and make a post somewhere else, log out and see if you or anyone else can see it. If not, you've been "suspended". If you or anyone else can, then your other post was just deleted. Funny how they don't care to tell you how or why.

As for the basement, I think they can do pretty much what they want to.

Hawkman — January 7, 2014 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 7, 2014 at 5:39 a.m.

My friend, you obviously never experienced a really ticked off German. We can hold our own when it comes to cussing. There is no calm restrained manner when we get going. Maybe it's a regional thing. But where i come from - watch out. I brought that with me. :)

Taking the fam to airport. So far, no flight cancellation. But already got notice that flight is well overbooked. 400 bucks in voucher if you go on the wait list. They are flying to DC, smack into the cold today. I stay home, waiting for the rain that's supposed to hit in a few days.

As for the paywall. It is obvious that the online commenters were/are freebies. The drop in comments is too obvious. Wonder if the C will realize they shot themselves in the foot.

luvithere — January 7, 2014 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere: My father-in-law was a German immigrant who shook the neighborhood with his rare foreign-language cuss-outs.

roger: If your post was struck by the C staff, it likely was deemed "off-topic." Their reasoning? What does Steve Stuart have to do with the Benton/Rivers fight? I have seen this warning used often with Josephine Wentzel and Debbie Peterson. Just an idea. I could be wrong.

What really jumped out at me was the fact that Curtis King was willing to tie CRC money to the Coast Guard permit. He probably thought it would not have been given, but it was. Does Benton wield so much power in the Senate? Looks like it. His bullying tactics, especially against women, must have been liberally reinforced in the past because it appears to be his favorite MO.

As to the paywall, The Seattle Times lost commenters at the beginning, too. Things are back up at their website now, though. I guess it takes time.

Anne McEnerny-Ogle is now on the C Tran board with Leavitt and Burkman. I chuckled when I saw that Bill Turlay is on solid waste management, however. Poor guy. Is that what they think of his skills? Solid waste?

manthou — January 7, 2014 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou evidently Leavitt gets to pick which councilor gets which assignment, and he thinks he can get Anne Mcnerny-Ogle and Burkman to vote his way. I understand what he is doing. But I thought the prime assignments went to the ones with the longest time on council. I guess I was wrong. I hope Anne listens better to her people than Leavitt or Burkman do.

timerick — January 7, 2014 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: My understanding is that the 3 C-Tran board members must vote as a block, according to the majority wishes of the city council as a whole.

I think the choices of Burkman and McEnerny-Ogle had more to do with their skills in homework and debate when push comes to shove. Leavitt wants partners there who can spar with the best of the windbags, using evidence as argument. :)

manthou — January 7, 2014 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You might be right about that. What I worry about is the influence that Leavitt has over the rest on that board. He has been able to get them to vote his way every time. Burkman is in his bag I hope Anne keeps standing for what she and the people she represents want. I guess we will see. Past history shows that some on that board can be intimidating and just Madore. I have seen Hamm in action before and he comes fully loaded to get what he wants. I don't trust Mr. Hamm so much.

timerick — January 7, 2014 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow. Lou B publishes another Weds Press Talk, unloading the entire wad, just like an old school editor of yore.

I received a classic Benton bully tirade when I asked the guy to resign. Wonder why he held back for Lou Brancaccio? Might be because they share the male gender.

Benton was lurking in the back shadows with his bodyguard, Clifford, last night, listening to Ed Barnes call for the same thing.

manthou — January 8, 2014 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I guess I just don't have a devious enough mind... I seen to always feel a sense of betrayal way down deep when I read stuff like this. Then wonder why I am surprised. Realizing over and over just how irrelevant the average person's contribution to controlling his/her own life is little discouraging when reading how easy it is to be impacted by the whim of avarise and vengeance by only a few. And, this right after listening to a NPR item about how UBS (swiss investment bank) helped 20,000 Americans to evade paying taxes.

jacjak — January 8, 2014 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

New business in town!

Three of my favorite rising stars have joined forces! Look out!

manthou — January 8, 2014 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak @ 9:17 am: I was watching "Angels in America" last night for the umpteenth time (Tony Kushner is one of our greatest American contemporary playwrights, IMHO).

Al Pacino as Roy Cohn was spouting off about the harsh reality of crony politics to Joe, his young Mormon protege:

"This is gastric juices churning! This is enzymes and acids! This is intestinal is what this is! Bowel movement and blood-red meat – this stinks! This is politics, Joe."

Truer words were never written. All hail, Tony Kushner!

manthou — January 8, 2014 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 10:06

Wow, great line! Did you see Kushner's 'Lincoln'? Not sure it's even out yet, but hardly ever go to see films, so it could have come and gone or has not been distributed in the U.S. Ever since reading Gore Videl's 'Lincoln' I try to read most of what comes along, tho won't touch O'Reilly's 'Killing Lincoln'. Call it personal bias.

According to comments on 'Press Talk' today, you're not the only one with disappearing posts. Paul Suarez, Columbian web producer says it's a FB thing, but IT is 'looking into it'.

jacjak — January 8, 2014 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, looks like Madore comes out of the closet on his true intention of following 'the vote of the people', and Mielke steps up and finally acknowledges how much he actually knows...

jacjak — January 8, 2014 at 4:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Those legal pot stores would have been like restaurants in downtown Vancouver - changing ownership every couple of years as the owner goes under. The State will want the prices as high as possible to maximize their tax income. I fully expect that those who currently smoke (or otherwise consume) pot will walk into the shops, suffer a severe case of sticker shock, and depart empty handed. The question is, does the illegal market follow suit and raise prices? That's the only reason I can see for those who currently buy on that market to want to move to the legal one.

roger — January 8, 2014 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, the newest pot article got a few comments, eh?
Could those comments be a viable sampling of the county's citizens?

If you ask me, the BoCC is a downright embarrassment (city, too, for that matter). The residents of Washington State are practicing blatant civil disobedience in respect to the Controlled Substances Act. And it's been a long time coming. A number of other states are pulling together various initiatives to do the same. Good on 'em.

What does this tell you? Could it possibly be the citizens of this country have simply had enough of the farce perpetrated by the United Corporations of America? Enough is enough?

And the BoCC claims they haven't enough information. If this is true then they are admitting to being incompetent. They use the Controlled Substance Act as a crutch to hold up their prohibitionist attitudes even though the will of the people is obvious. That is about this >< close to malfeasance, if you ask me.

And all the while the world is watching.
A downright embarrassing, I tell ya.

Drift — January 9, 2014 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: I was waiting for your comments on the latest BoCC decision. Another hypocritical move, when they constantly revere the "will of the people."

Oh, I forgot: it is the will of the people when WE agree with the voting results. When we don't, well, father knows best, after all.

I listen to each meeting and board time and always marvel at the number of issues that they table for more "research." It is one reason they had 30 items on the consent agenda for their final December meeting: the decision chickens came home to roost, loud and hungry.

I see new people Tweeting Stephanie Rice (who covers board time now), asking her how they can contact Madore (he bans dissent from his FB page). She has given out Madore's email several times. Don't know if he will listen or how many people are going to protest this decision in earnest.

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One more observation about the BoCC that does not get much mention:

Benton's own crony hire, Chris Clifford, looms large and silent, arms folded across his massive chest like a bar bouncer at the BoCC meetings.

What other employee in Clean Water does that? What other employee period? Of course anyone can come to a public meeting. But I don't see many employees at the Public Service Building after hours unless their duties demand it.

I was chatting with Axel Swanson before a meeting once and, out of the corner of my eye, I could see Clifford inching toward us, seemingly trying to take in the private conversation. When Swanson and I finished, Clifford moved back to his corner.

He seems nice enough, to be fair, when he chats with people. But what gives with his hulking presence at Benton's side? He looks like a body guard.

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

[I've been without internet or cable for two days. I was disconnected-more than usual. It felt weird. I actually felt more connected, yet reality spoke differently. Could the lack of societal inter-facing be opening my seven doors of Chakras? Like pools of preoperative dopamine?

I had more quiet time, more time to reflect. Spiritually, I was able to get in touch with my inner voice. The frustrated voice that said; "Maybe I made a huge mistake switching over to century from comcast!! Bummer how you guys have screwed up my order! Four representatives and two and a half hours on the phone with customer service-most of it on hold-later, just to figure out your company screw up and showcase your slow staff responses? It's already been a day and a half.....sending someone out first thing at no charge? Thank you."]

.................................................(15 hours and 45 minutes later)...Problem seems to have solved. !!!Hallelujah!!!

Device addiction?

From the BoCC article:

"Madore also expressed concern that people will call 911 to report marijuana-related activity, and police officers won’t know how to respond."

Now he's saying local law enforcement is as stupid, as it is incompetent? And he wants to micro-manage it? Just one more "creative" reason to obstruct sales implementation. Zoning-building codes-the Fed, they'll keep pulling rabbits out of their collective hats.

Remember what local conservatives are serving up when it's time to vote next November.

nailingit — January 9, 2014 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, nail, good to see your post! I thought you had tumbled down the rabbit hole elsewhere, leaving us without a familiar voice. :(

The neighboring counties are singing, "Ca-ching! Ca-ching!" thanks to our commissioners. We'll open the floodgates, but only selectively.

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cha-ching, indeed. Out of your pocket and mine.

Drift — January 9, 2014 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: We will see the same challenge here in Clark County.

Pet Peeve alert: irresponsible landlords.

The house that is being SWAT team raided on E 13th right now? The same owners have a derelict house on E McLoughlin that has been wreaking havoc in Arnada with squatter/drug activity for months.

The owners? A local attorney and her husband. Yep. You read that right.

When landlords allow criminal activity to persist by refusing to screen tenants, or refusing to secure their property against squatters, they risk being charged with a crime themselves.

If you own a rental home, take responsibility for it. Your neighbors will appreciate it. :)

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 6, 2014 at 6:40 p.m.

If you used the the word $#*% on facebook, as you did in your retelling, no doubt that is the reason for removal. The C used the word in the article with a warning. Some posters then think it gives them license to do the same. Try using poopy-doo, pop-a-squat, laying a deuce, forging a cleveland steamer, drop the kids off at the pool, go grunt, etc., for your next fecal inspired comentary.


manthou — January 9, 2014 at 11:07 a.m.
Drift — January 9, 2014 at 11:18 a.m.

These guys are holding progress back, and while times allow them to take their fire and brimstone politics to the pot fields, we as a people should make sure it's a controlled burn.

Is the era of the back room deal gone? Quorums be damned! I'm sure something can be worked out. A robotic tax credit here, a church contribution there...if not anything else, M&M; have shown they're ethically challenged right wing ideologues.

In order to shut them up and make them compliant, find out what they want and pay them off. County should buy them a church, a vineyard, a county "bid" Digital contract, adult vid store, something, until we can throw them out at election time. In the long run it would save time, money, and cut down on the need for extended public commentary. No doubt precedent for this type of action has already been set many times over. Just a thought.

nailingit — January 9, 2014 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 12:14

There was a letter in the Columbian in mid December about a proposed Housing Authority build called Lincoln Place for recovering drug addicts and those with mental illness. Not sure the dynamics but think it is to be some sort of permanent halfway house. The letter writer was concerned about it's proximity between Share House and the new Lincoln Place to Open House Ministries and the homeless families w/ children there.

jacjak — January 9, 2014 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: I am vaguely aware of that proposal and the looming controversy over it. The main objection I have heard is that neighbors don't want all transitional/supportive housing to be lumped together in one small area.

Persons in recovery and the mentally ill are a protected class of citizen by law, however, and cannot be discriminated against in housing. Some people might assume violence and crime go with it, but I think research shows that people who have safe, reliable, supported housing do better in the community.

There will be a public hearing on this project at the Vancouver Housing Authority (25th and Main), Jan 16 at 6 PM.

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

today's the 1st day i could actually READ and/or reply to the basement posts.

maybe it's a glitch in the sys thaat web coders didn't anticipate.


hope everyone's HAPPY HOLIDAY endeaors were succesful, and maybe we can be 'kindler and gentler' to each other in '14.

not betting on it, btw.

DeeLittle — January 9, 2014 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit - No, that wasn't it - there's something screwed up with The C's facebook interface. I've had two others disappear, and other people are complaining of the same thing. The C is blaming it on facebook, but I don't think so - I haven't encountered this problem elsewhere.

roger — January 9, 2014 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Who's this Clifford guy? The last I went to a forum where Benton was (about a year ago), his sidekick was a short little guy about 5'6" or so, who stood by and stared around the place acting like a Secret Service agent or something. Maybe after his run in with Annie 'ol Donnie decided he better have some bigger back up?

roger — January 9, 2014 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Mr. Clifford is tall and beefy/muscled and sports a shaved head. He is six feet tall or more.

A year ago, Benton was not yet our DES Director and didn't need the manpower for personal protection. Maybe. :)

This is the second time I have seen Clifford work and scan the room before a BoCC meeting. The first one was at the "I am Ed Barnes" rally. Who needs the sheriff when we have Chris?

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh, Chris Clifford was hired by Benton in July to be a program manager for the Clean Water Division. He was a bar owner/high school teacher/community activist from Renton WA who also was an aide to Senator Pam Roach. Clifford accompanied Senator Roach and Don Benton on a trip to China in 2007, I believe.

Not a crony appointment, sez Benton. We know that bar owners know a lot about Clean Water to flush the taps. No one better for a job here. :)

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift - The states (WA and CO) are figuring if they can't beat them, then make some money off of them. I just can't see this route working. I posted that Forbes article where they talked with a dealer in CO, and he said he can provide the same thing as the State store for $100-$150 less per ounce. I'm figuring WA will shoot for similar prices - maybe $350-$400 per ounce in their stores (if they even sell in that quantity). There's a website that says the average price on the illegal market in WA is $235 per. Sorry, but the choice is a no brainer.

I ran across a CO website that was playing 64 questions. Somewhere along the way they were discussing mark up for taxes, and then the writer observed that almost no one bought ounces anymore - they usually dealt in eighths. Things sure have changed - an ounce was the smallest quantity anyone I knew dealt in. It was usually easier (and cheaper) for a few of us to pool together and buy larger quantities.

roger — January 9, 2014 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

An interesting read from the Pacific Standard. What gets me is that we have the capability to monitor all kinds of communications, but for some reason can't track these people.

roger — January 9, 2014 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Was it jacjak who turned us on to the Pacific Standard here? Excellent reading material.

I know some people who work in criminal defense, high profile stuff in the news, who get internet death threats and vicious bullying, too. No one tries to go after these bottom feeder anonymous cowards much because the first amendment protects most of the garbage they threaten. Unfortunately, for writers and other persons who make a living dealing with controversial subjects or persons, this is part of doing business.

"Threatening" free speech certainly has a chilling effect on others' ability to exercise it freely.

manthou — January 9, 2014 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I read the link Roger and it almost made me sick. When people have access to personal information and then post things like that autonomously they should be caught and prosecuted. Those are horrible comments to make to a woman or to anyone for that matter. We have way to many sick people in this world.

timerick — January 9, 2014 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

it's hard to sift out what the subject de jour is from the above posts. "personal information" is the new standard of the internet, and approproiate protection the new basic requirement.

if we were the internet we should be, all apps would be required to have an 'opt in' choice for dissemination of personal information. we should be given PLAIN LANGUAGE information about what the website does with personal information, and we should be able to UNDERSTAND the legalize it uses to obfuscate its trashing of our constitutional rights of privacy, freedom of speech, etc.

i guess that will come eventually, after some very henious breaches resulting in successful lawsuits.

DeeLittle — January 9, 2014 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I'd have to go back and check, but I'm pretty sure it was jacjak. When someone posts a link to a source I'm not familiar with, I like to spend a little time and check the site out to get an overall idea of where they're coming from. I liked what I read on Pacific Standard enough to buy a subscription - It wasn't all biased toward a particular end of the spectrum as so many are. I also liked that the writers get to go into depth on a topic - like a lot of good magazines used to do before they began having to limit their writers to make room for advertisements.

roger — January 10, 2014 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I liked what I have read so far, too, on The Pacific Standard. Thanks, jacjak for broadening our literary horizons!

Did you see that Ted Wheeler has asserted that he will not sign off on any Oregon-only CRC project unless he is convinced Oregon will be legally able to collect WA tolls? I cannot keep up with the drama on this subject.

Speaking of transportation projects, at the RTC meeting Tuesday, David Madore asked why we need expensive metered ramps added to I 205 when we have so much grassy median available to pave over. It was explained that the median is a safety tool: reduce its size and the death rate goes up.

He heard that, but he obviously did not like what he heard because he posted a FB comment to rile up his base about widening I 205, without disclosing the reason he was given for rejecting the idea. Transparency rules, but only when it serves my argument. :)

manthou — January 10, 2014 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — January 9, 2014 at 10:37 p.m.

And on that note, Target is reporting that their breach resulted in over 70 Million identities lost.

Gentlemen, start your lawsuits!!!

Hawkman — January 10, 2014 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, that should not be "lost" , but STOLEN!

Hawkman — January 10, 2014 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thought to share a couple of stories I've been following. The Christie debacle is really snowballing.

-Why this satanic goat statue has the Christian right so freaked out-

Granted, the Satanists are making a more important point with their statue than Schaeffer is with his spaghetti strainer. They’re protesting religious fundamentalists who want to uphold their faith above all others, but the swearing-in ceremony that Schaeffer is mocking is not one that is known for being religiously exclusive. On the contrary, most governments will let you swear in with any religious tradition you want, which is why Schaeffer was allowed to do the colander stunt in the first place. Still, the prank makes an important point about how, even with the religious tolerance built into the swearing-in ceremony, the ceremony still reinforces the idea that religious beliefs should play an important part of one’s role as a politician. That alone should trouble us, because ideally, leaders of a secular society would leave their religious beliefs at the door and choose to govern not by religious faith, but by reason and an interest in representing all their constituents, regardless of belief, equally.

After all, most of us are hired for jobs and do those jobs without anyone mentioning our religious beliefs at all, because they are irrelevant to the work we do. Why then do politicians in a supposedly secular government have to make a fuss over their religion right from the beginning? Wouldn’t be better if everyone just made a secular promise to do their jobs properly, putting them all on the same page?

Read More @

nailingit — January 10, 2014 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Christie apologizes for scandal, fires deputy chief of staff, ousts top political aide-

The bridge controversy is certain to continue. The office of U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced Thursday that it had opened a preliminary inquiry after a referral from the inspector general at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which oversees the bridge. Fishman was nominated as the state’s top federal prosecutor in 2009 by President Obama.

Also Thursday, six residents of the state filed a class-action lawsuit against Christie, his top aides and the Port Authority claiming they lost pay because of delays caused by the lane closures.

In Trenton, former Christie appointee David Wildstein, who is shown helping to orchestrate the gridlock plan in e-mails, invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in refusing to answer questions in front of the General Assembly’s transportation committee. The panel voted unanimously to refer Wildstein to authorities for a possible contempt charge.

State Senate President Stephen Sweeney (D), who is friendly with Christie, said Democratic lawmakers will continue their investigations but will not rush the process. “We don’t want to create a political circus,” he said, “but answers have to be had.”

Read More @


Last night Rachel might have broken more ground. (Pulitzer?)

-Rachel Maddow Presents New Chris Christie Bridge Scandal Theory-

nailingit — January 10, 2014 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 10, 2014 at 6:44 a.m. "Thanks, jacjak for broadening our literary horizons!"

Don't thank me... It just started showing up in my mailbox w/ a subscription that doesn't expire until Jan 15. I used to take Lapham's Quarterly, along with a dozen other magazines. Went a little overboard when I retired, like I really believed I'd have all this free time. But magazines started stacking up unread and I had to deal, so let a couple of the foodie mags go and Lapham's Quarterly. Really liked LQ tho, history, some culture, tho not too much current event features, but the editor used to be with Harper's Magazine, who's subscription I'll always keep unless it comes to choosing between hair shampoo and magazines. Recently I've had a magazines I subscribed to quit publication. There was time left on my subscription & they said they'd replace it w/same genre. Perhaps Pacific Standard come to me that way tho Lapham's Quarterly is still in publication and I thought I just let the subscription lapse. It's a mystery. Maybe it could become a reality show too...

It's obvious at this point, and a little embarrassing to admit, but I LIKE magazines like some women like shoes. And don't even get me started on Journals... Wikipedia lists them alphabetically . So far I only hang out at the library seeing what new publications are available, at least til I retake possession of my mailbox and nightstand. Really need one of those Evelyn Wood speed reading courses, tho that'd probably go the way of the Dragon Software hubby got me for my bd.

Sick of being sick. Makes me grumpy. Not well enough to leave the house so fiddling with tax receipts and compiling tax info. Makes me grumpier. Anyone use TurboTax? Thinking about doing our own this year, but hesitate. Just know I was real unhappy when we were charged exactly double last year from what was charged the year before, with absolutly nothing changed in our circumstance. Still, it makes me hesitate to think of doing it ourselves.

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 9, 2014 at 6:46 p.m.

Interesting read, and no doubt the internet, to include Twitter, has it's share of abuses. Given the tone and content of the article, and if one didn't know better, men by and large are mostly creeps and thugs who's sole purpose is to descend on hapless females to enact rape and murder fantasies.

If our little forum is to be considered a micro-chasm of other venues, it has taught us bad manners and a nasty tone are gender neutral. (understanding the article spoke of more serious threats)

It did get me to reading the Pacific Standard. A fun read, and I too give a shout out to JJ for bringing it to the forum.

nailingit — January 10, 2014 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 8:50

I sure would like Maddow's research skills... or probably her staff. She's usually quick to assemble the pieces into an otherwise unconsidered shape.

Add to the mix is the idea that there are those on the far right who call Christie 'rino'. They've been singling him out as 'too liberal' ever since he met w/ Obama after hurricane Sandy, and he gave Obama credit for FEMA's fast response. Perhaps even before that...

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 10:48 a.m.

Do you mean "post tropical cyclone Sandy"? No hurricane named Sandy has ever hit the United States.

frobert — January 10, 2014 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert @ 2:23

I guess it's a matter of semantics as to what a superstorm is called. I know there's technical jargon and that there was some debate, but mostly know I have a 20 lb dog named Sandy. And I personally think they named that storm after her!

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, things are hopping...

Is it state's rights that trumps federal. Or is it federal that trumps state? Will someone please ask Madore?;=U.S.®ion;=Footer&module;=MoreInSection&pgtype;=article

Also, following the water ban in West Virginia...

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 4:10

There is no such thing as a "superstorm", and if there was it would be worse than a hurricane not less. New York and New Jersey were not prepared for a tropical storm, that is the only reason it was even news.

frobert — January 10, 2014 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For a totally different perspective...

jacjak — January 10, 2014 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

FRO.... "There is no such thing as a "superstorm", and if there was it would be worse than a hurricane not less. New York and New Jersey were not prepared for a tropical storm, that is the only reason it was even news."

I believe it's because all the news outlets have their main offices around there.

DeeLittle — January 10, 2014 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Superstorm Sandy: Before, During And Beyond///

nailingit — January 10, 2014 at 9:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 10, 2014 at 9:21 p.m.

It doesn't matter how many articles you post calling it a "superstorm", meteorologically speaking it was still less than a hurricane.

frobert — January 10, 2014 at 11:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Both the USGS and NOAA called it a hurricane (shrug).
"Superstorm" -is- media hype.

Drift — January 11, 2014 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I don't really know why this argument is happening, but I've got a "2 cents" to add. I lived in (on) Brigantine NJ in 1964, when Hurricane Dora hit. About a 5 minute walk from the ocean. Lots of rain, and high waves that came up to the edge of the beach. (Pretty neat stuff for a kid in the 5th grade.) Sandy was also a hurricane until it ran into a cold front right offshore from Brigantine and was slowed down. I've seen pictures my brother got from an old friend of his from those days - the water had come as far as the park across the street from our house in the middle of the island. That area has been hit by a few storms over the years, but nothing like Sandy. I doubt the people who live there really cared whether it was a hurricane, tropical storm, superstorm, or whatever. It was bad news.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Freeholders live at 9 am this morning. CVTV Channel 23.

This is not only an audition for fledgling politicians (I predict some newcomers from this group will run for public office again), but a way for us to evaluate all the others who already hold office. We don't often get to see our elected officials working so openly. Do they share or hog the mic? Do they play well with others? Do they lecture more than they listen or ask questions? I have a candidate already for the latter category, hands down.:)

Anyone who likes to analyze group process, please watch and share your impressions.

manthou — January 11, 2014 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger @ 8:08

Small world... hubby from Brigantine NJ also. 9th & 10th grades at Atlantic City High. His Dad was Navy 22 yrs, then civilian tech for the Navy, so they moved a lot. One of the reasons I like Google Maps is we can show each other the places we lived as kids right down to the streets and houses and schools without going there.

jacjak — January 11, 2014 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My father was the Active Duty commander of the Marine Reserve training center in Atlantic City for the 2 years we were there. Brigantine was pretty neat. We lived on the main drag, right across the street from the field where the Little League ballpark was. My friend Jimmy's house is gone, replaced by a big condo. There was a pier maybe a mile or so down the beach - gone. There was also a pier on the inlet on the back side of the island where we bought squid and fished for blowfish - that pier is gone too. I learned the stupidity of cannon balling jellyfish at that pier. Looks to me like the island has changed a lot - grown, and most old houses gone and replaced by higher end dwellings.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Why House Democrats Might Kill Obama's Big Trade Deal///

There's a lot at stake for Democrats and the president in working out their rough spots. If they don't, Obama's trade agenda stalls. And for Democrats, giving the White House too much authority could undercut the centerpiece of the 2014 election argument -- that they are the party that will deal with income inequality and help the middle class. That's because many in their own party, especially grassroots activists and unions, blame flaws in previous grand trade deals like the North American Free Trade Agreement for siphoning off middle class jobs.

"We have had a trade deficit that has exceeded $350 billion every single year for the past 13 years. We have this enormous staggering problem with our economy called the continuing trade deficit, and this is a measure that would make that worse," Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) said. "The classic example of this is NAFTA. NAFTA has managed to hurt American workers and Mexican workers at the same time."

And most Democrats don't think the pending TPP deal addresses numerous labor, environmental and other issues adequately. Like NAFTA, the TPP would empower foreign corporations to directly challenge the laws and regulations of a country before an international tribunal. Under other trade frameworks, like the World Trade Organization treaties, only nations themselves are permitted to bring trade cases before an international arbiter, meaning companies must first win support from a government before attacking a law. Exxon Mobil, Dow Chemical, Eli Lilly and other corporations have used NAFTA to attempt to overturn Canadian regulations regarding offshore oil drilling, fracking, pesticides, drug patents and other issues.

Read More @

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I caught the last part of the meeting, where they gave their views on whether the administrator should be appointed or elected. Most who spoke made good points to support their positions. Of the "newcomers" - Jim Mains gave a clear analysis of why he supports an appointed one. I'm not sure who the guy in the jacket and black shirt next to Pike was, but his discussion on why he'd rather have no administrator was also quite good. Temple Lentz has a vision, but doesn't seem able to get to the detail part. Most of the "old pros" were good, except Marc Boldt just rambled, and Val Ogden said nothing. (That was probably a mistake for Mahoney to withdraw to allow Ogden her last hurrah.) What I heard has me leaning heavily to an appointed professional administrator. There would need to be some sort of protection for that person, though.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 12:34 p.m.

While I agree with those who say our international trade agreements helped kill the blue collar employment market, it's too late to change now. We've been on that road since GATT back in the '60s. And a bigger culprit was allowing our corporations to become multinationals - Nike being a perfect example. In the '70s they ran their sweatshop operations in South Korea and Taiwan. As those countries grew, they shifted operations to Indonesia and Vietnam. (In fairness, though, it's almost impossible to find a USA made athletic shoe anymore. Saucony was, but when they were bought out in the '90s much of their operation moved offshore. I think New Balance is the only one left that tries to keep most of their operation here.) People like to argue back and forth over whether the problem is corporate greed or workers wanting to much in pay and benefits, but just as big problems are trying to run an operation with the taxes we impose, and the public wanting an inexpensive product.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"'s too late to change now."

roger — January 11, 2014 at 1 p.m.

Never say never. Just look at what the local luddites did to the CRC.

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

He was there 1969 - 70, on Lincoln Dr. by the golf course. He was change-boy at the arcade at Seahorse pier by 14th street at opposite end from the Brigantine Lighthouse, which he didn't find on Google so figures it must be gone. Looks like all condos now. He was also a lifeguard at the lifeguard station on Roosevelt Ave. and learned how to surf there. Liked to hunt for sharks in Reeds Bay during low tide before the marshes became wildlife reserves. Has good memories from there.

jacjak — January 11, 2014 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Speaking of the CRC- I'm wondering how our local purveyors of light rail doom feel about Oregon taking over and perhaps building the project anyway, with Washington having zero representation, to include deciding on tolls. (if I'm understanding things correctly) Do the No Tolls crowd have a plan B? Or was it just layman speculators and agitators tearing the project apart with nothing else on the table. This is a tough lesson to learn, if it's learned at all.

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Good observations on the Freeholder meeting today. They all seem to be in agreement with the addition of at least two more commissioners, but split on the appointed vs elected administrator. I lean toward the appointed, too. I am impressed with what I heard from the participants and am only turned off by one: Liz Pike. She does not miss a chance to lecture on her vast practical experience and took a dig at the "academic' presentation (which I thought was informative). Academic research helps inform policy and the law, so Liz's anecdotal stories about her serving in the legislature are just that: her experience. She dismisses science of any sort, as a matter of course. The most impressive, insightful comments? Ann Rivers and Joe Zarelli, IMHO. Wish Moeller would chime in and let us know what he is thinking.

nailingit at 4:07 pm: I was wondering what WA will have to give Ted Wheeler before he will sign off on the Oregon only project. Oregon will have to be able to toll us and Wheeler says that 2/3 of the cars will come from WA. I get tolled when I visit the East coast, and no one asked for my permission. :) Regardless, I do not think folks expected Oregon to go it alone or be willing to do so and I wonder what other obstacles they can successfully lob from this side. If the Oregon legislature won't sign off, it is dead. If Ted Wheeler won't sign off, it is dead. Long shot.

manthou — January 11, 2014 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah, I had the same thought about Liz. Zarelli is very knowledgeable, but I didn't care for his idea about the power of the Exec - sounded like he wanted that 3rd branch of gov't. I liked Jim Mains and Ann because they both presented their positions short and to the point. And our Sheriff has some issues - he got quite snippy about the business of elected vs. appointed and longevity, but it was directed at Liz even though a couple of others had also said something similar. I got a chuckle out of how Ann put him in his place. This is the first sign of party politics external to the process I've noted, and it's internal to the Repub party.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luddites? No plan B? There were two variations of the West side approach that had light rail and Hayden Island traffic on a separate bridge from the freeway; both were promoted by bridge builders with a hell of a lot more real world experience than the CRC crowd. And both claimed their version would come in much cheaper. If my memory is correct, there was something like 12 options presented, and ruled out because they didn't involved putting light rail on the freeway bridge.

And there were plenty of different reasons people didn't want the project. Probably the largest opposition group was the one who didn't accept the rightness of tolling commuters $7-$8 per day to drive across a bridge and then run into the same backups as they are now. There is a contingent that doesn't want light rail, mainly due to the crime (which is supported by the police chiefs of both Gresham and Clackamas, by the way). And others were opposed because of where the rail went.

Now, there were some who believed the project was being pushed on this side by people who plan on using it to "revitalize" the old downtown, and get a few rich people a whole lot richer in the process.

I wouldn't be so sure Oregon is going to build that bridge. They've been given a clear message by our State Senate that they need to come back to the table and work on a new plan that's got the main focus on moving traffic. And I'm thinking that our Gov and House will have to accept this - the projects up north are a lot more important to most of them, and if Lynn Peterson is given a green light to work with Oregon, then there will be problems with that Trans bill and just about anything else Gov Inslee is wanting accomplished.

roger — January 11, 2014 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anybody heard of this guy in California? Ron Unz.

Interesting ideas, even for a Republican.

Hawkman — January 11, 2014 at 8:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 11, 2014 at 6:57 p.m

Yes, luddites. Kinda catchy I think, as well as kind.
Crime rail-loot rail-better ideas-no tolls-boondoggle-yes yes yes. It's been community ingrained and is now part of Vancouver's fabric. At least we're not hearing much about the 3rd bridge magic dust anymore. A transportation issue that divided a community. Driven by countless community engineers with better ideas, no credible solutions, and little to no professional expertise. Madore is now making a career out of it! He played this town like a Clapton strummed Strat.

And the rich always get richer. It's why they're rich. A few always benefit financially from a project of this magnitude. Given the politics of the overwhelmingly conservative 'No Tolls' crowd, this especially shouldn't be a problem.

As a side note: If a Luddite is also a Madorite, would they be called MaLuddite? (muddite?)

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This could be Christie's downfall.

///Chris Christie Scandal Is An 'Impeachable Offense' If He Knew, Dem Lawmaker Leading Probe Says///

New Jersey Assemblyman John Wisniewski (D) told NBC News Saturday that if Christie was at all aware of his aides' actions, impeachment could emerge as a potential issue.

"Using the George Washington Bridge, a public resource, to exact a political vendetta, is a crime," Wisniewski said. "Having people use their official position to have a political game is a crime. So if those tie back to the governor in any way, it clearly becomes an impeachable offense."

"It's hard to really accept the governor's statement that he knew nothing until the other morning," Wisnieswki added.

Read More @

nailingit — January 11, 2014 at 11:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Greg Jayne makes some very strong points in his column today.

My favorite? The Washington legislature is demonstrating "dereliction of duty" by ceding all CRC power over to Oregon for building and tolls.

Jayne thinks the bridge should be built without light rail, but my understanding is that we received Federal funding because light rail was included.

Clark County residents will pay Federal and state taxes for transportation projects regardless. With the death of the CRC, those funds go to other jurisdictions' back yards, not ours.

manthou — January 12, 2014 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - Unz has both sides of the political aisle wondering what he's up to; as the union leader in your article notes, his track record isn't one of supporting workers. But his premise is a simple one - he sees $12 per hour as a minimum wage which will move a lot of people off the public assistance rolls. Any increase in business cost would be minimal, and could be rolled into the product's cost. I'm thinking he forgot to factor in that so many of the minimum wage jobs are also part time ones - and if you move people above the public assistance threshold, then you also move them off Medicaid.

roger — January 12, 2014 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

If money talks and I am sure it does, all you have to do is look at who is buying properties along the north rail line and south return line in down town Vancouver. They are gearing up for light rail. None of the property purchases have been made public. The rail is going to come maybe sooner rather than later. I still say it makes no sense for it to go to Clark College. It just will not move the right people or enough of them. People from the east side and those north and north east of Vancouver will not use it. For most it just does not save enough time and is not convenient enough for their work or for what most do after work.

timerick — January 12, 2014 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That $850 million New Starts funding for light rail was being used for several other projects as well - parking garages here, upgrading the Steel Bridge, and about $75 million or so on a couple of TriMet facilities well outside the CRC area. New Starts funding can also be obtained for dedicated BRT and bus lanes. The 4th Plain BRT project has New Starts funding, and that doesn't even plan for a dedicated lane (a stupid decision, in my mind).

Something the CRC has consistently refused to provide critics is an estimate of the additional cost to build the two level bridge to accommodate light rail and the bike/pedestrian level. Something most people weren't understanding is that the state cost shares were for the interchange upgrades on their respective sides of the river. The bridge itself, and all cost overruns, were to be paid for by tolling revenue. (And then on to the arguments about travel time gains, where the congestion is, etc.)

Our State Senate is quite clear that they're more than willing to return to the table with Oregon and plan a single level bridge with no light rail, along the lines of the Glenn Jackson. I'm of the opinion that the primary Oregon push to continue with the project comes from Port of Portland and from Metro. The bridge can still be designed to have a dedicated exit lane to Marine Drive and fix part of their problem. But just pushing the traffic to I205 through high tolls is the wrong answer; Oregon has to fix their portion of the freeway that's the true cause of most of the problems.

And as for Jayne's "ceding all CRC power" - I disagree. The Senate, and consequently the Legislature, refused to support the current CRC. As you may recall, they were willing to budget to continue the planning process. Gov Inslee refused to consider this, and he is having his WSDOT Lynn Peterson accomplish that hand off. I would still expect to see the Senate taking action to stop this.

roger — January 12, 2014 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh - The Columbian likes to bury these articles in Section C of the hard copy.

So, neither SR520 or Tacoma Narrows are meeting their tolling levels required to pay off the bonds. The Narrows bridge was backloaded, with higher annual bond payments getting ready to come into play. And WSDOT is creating a stink up north with wanting to toll the I90 bridge to force people back to the SR520 to pay those tolls.

roger — January 12, 2014 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

From Jayne's editorial-

"For example, a study by Randal O'Toole of the Cato Institute (admittedly an anti-light-rail libertarian think tank) found that light rail costs between 14 times and 35 times as much to move people as highways."

This is called throwing a pile of $#!& against the wall and seeing what sticks. Great stats! :)) Jayne should have mentioned this decades old libertarian movement used to be strong supporters of light rail (by and large) to fill transportation needs.

"In my opinion, I'm very sad we walked away. "Picked up our marbles and went home". We had the opportunity - and choked. Opportunity to effect the tolls, the size, the transit, the interchanges, a seat at the table. Everything was there (all the permits, mitigations, 15 years of studies, public comment, money both from Oregon and the Feds, etc) everything except the political will in the Washington State Senate to make it happen. Even on a good day, it takes everyone (or at least a majority) pulling in the same direction for something this big to happen. If it's going to be built now - it will take Oregon to lead and Washington will follow. Otherwise, we wait for another generation to again replace the bridge."
Reply · 1 · · 44 minutes ago

Jim Moeller · Top Commenter · 103 subscribers

Moeller nails it. If Oregon goes ahead with this project I can hear the whining already. Everyone wants something for nothing. I hope our kids generation doesn't turn out half as spoiled and self-agrandized as ours seems to be. So many self appointed city planners who won't let a nickel leave their collective pockets for the sake of future generations.

I wonder if the anti-CRC people will wake up some day and realize how they screwed this opportunity away. I know their kids will.

If we've learned nothing else, we've learned that whatever Benton & Madore have a hand in it's destructive.

Let Oregon dictate everything! Great job guys!

nailingit — January 12, 2014 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interesting case. Bloggers beware!

///Blogger’s Incarceration Raises First Amendment Questions///

Mr. Shuler is no stranger to defamation suits, as one might surmise from reading his blog. He started it in 2007 to document a property dispute with his neighbor that blew up into a legal war and ended with the neighbor’s lawyer becoming a part-owner of Mr. Shuler’s house, which is in Birmingham. Later, the blog branched out to expose what he alleged were the corrupt machinations of powerful figures, mostly Republicans, and with a particular animus toward former Gov. Bob Riley.

His allegations are frequently salacious, including a recent assertion that a federal judge had appeared in a gay pornographic magazine and a theory that several suicides were actually a string of politically motivated murders. Starting in January 2013, Mr. Shuler, citing unidentified sources, began writing that Robert Riley Jr., the son of the former governor, had impregnated a lobbyist named Liberty Duke and secretly paid for an abortion. Both denied it, and Ms. Duke swore in an affidavit that they had never even been alone in the same room.

In July, Mr. Riley and Ms. Duke sought an injunction in state court against such posts, citing Mr. Shuler and his wife, Carol, in defamation suits. A judge issued a temporary restraining order in September barring the Shulers from publishing “any defamatory statement” about Mr. Riley and Ms. Duke and demanding that the offending posts be immediately removed.


Mr. Shuler continued blogging. On Oct. 23, the police followed Mr. Shuler as he pulled into his driveway, arrested him in his garage and took him to jail on charges of contempt and resisting arrest.

In the hyperpartisan corners of the blogosphere where Mr. Shuler was already known, there was shock. Even some of his dedicated foes were alarmed.

Read More @

nailingit — January 12, 2014 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rejoice my friends, rejoice! In case our third comish decides to no longer be part of the circus crowd, I have found the perfect third comish to join our two Ms. As it turns out, this person has lost all sense of reality and therefore made up his own. I think he would fit right in with that approach. Plus, he has proven himself to be quite the bully over the years. Add in his narcissistic streak - voila! Bet ya Madore would love him.

Nails? Comments?

luvithere — January 12, 2014 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails I don't think you understand where some of that are opposed to light rail come from. First we are not opposed to a new bridge, just the light rail part. there are a lot of small business's that will not survive the construction of light rail. It will run us out. We don't reley on foot traffic. We need people being able to access us. And we need to be able to run our service trucks. Putting up with the bridge construction is going to be hard enough but I think most of us could make it through. I don't know about the rest but I do know that my payroll of 150k would most likely disapear . It is not a option for us to move. I don't want to throw away the 48 years I have been here. Not just yet. Please understand where we are coming from. I do respect your thoughts and opinion just try to understand where we come from.

timerick — January 12, 2014 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Jayne should have mentioned this decades old libertarian movement used to be strong supporters of light rail (by and large) to fill transportation needs." -- nailingit — January 12, 2014 at 10:35 a.m.

How have you determined this? Sources please.

kn_dalai — January 12, 2014 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

They don’t care timerick. They don’t give a damn. This is 1) centralized planning government Leftists hell bent on social engineering by forcing the populace into public transportation even against the people’s will of the vast majority and 2) others that stand to financially benefit.

The C-tran/trimet contract debacle alone, says it all. What happened there is disgusting beyond belief.

Ever wondered how many Clark County employees are Democrats versus Republicans? I sure have. So just how does one go about dealing with a one-sided entrenched bureaucracy? Maybe you do that by putting someone like Benton in there.

I see that LuoLou did his usual weekly hit piece on Benton. To criticize over the Benton hire is right as rain. But the relentless one-sidedness that’s gone on here is beyond the pale. LouLou has yet to explain exactly what Benton has done in the performance of his duties, that is worthy of scorn. One might wonder if Ms. Largent could have as effectively represented Clark County as a negotiator with the Feds over the storm water runoff problem as Benton apparently did. Considering the slim margin by which the lite rail fiasco was defeated in the Senate, one might think that some ardent lite rail supporters in an influential position, may have a vested interest in sending one of their biggest thorns in the side a packin’.

kn_dalai — January 12, 2014 at 11:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — January 12, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.

I understand it will impact businesses, both good and bad, and I wish the best for yours. The percentage of businesses light rail will affect must be pretty small. The comments from disgruntled business owners, both at meetings and on face book are few.

We've had this conversation before. Mostly those opposed fit into roger's demographics at 6:57. Tight wallets-no vision-and afraid of crime. Folks such as kn_dalai do your cause no favors. They chum up to your cause while criticizing others and events they can't begin to understand-all to push some decades old Ayn Rand agenda. The Ted Cruz/Don Benton crowd. Just throw crap without thinking.

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

They don’t care timerick. They don’t give a damn.

kn_dalai — January 12, 2014 at 11:21 p.m.

If by "they", you're meaning me, than say so. At least stand on your own about something. Rather than using insult as a springboard for your religious libertarian Ted Cruz agenda, try honest conversation based in reasonable thought and transparency. However your cheap shots are amusing and liven up the forum a bit. Kinda like the cat used to do. :)

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — January 12, 2014 at 5:57 p.m.

Let's hope to high hell Stuart stays on. If we get another RW ideologue on the commish it's time to pack!

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — January 12, 2014 at 9:39 p.m.

I've printed many articles in the past which speak to this, (at least on three different occasions that I remember, maybe more) and to join in with others-Google it. This isn't the first (or second or third) time, that I or someone else refers you to "Google". I believe the last time was a few weeks ago when JohnK did so about your misunderstandings when differing liberals from progressives. Google can be your friend if you let it. It does get old reprinting articles and definitions for you. Pull up those bootstraps Mr. Libertarian! :):) Looking into literature other than 'Atlas Shrugged', the 'Daily Paul', or listening to the Rush Limbaugh show will expand your horizons greatly, if you let it. There's a brave new world out there! :)

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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